00:16:33 thinko? 00:16:47 Also, there's basically an rm -rf in the current PSOX spec 00:16:56 and you could easily specify a / 00:17:45 Also, it won't really help with accidentally hitting rm instead of ls, it's more of against using a filesystem function instead of a network function 00:20:40 [00:16] Also, there's basically an rm -rf in the current PSOX spec 00:20:43 This just means your spec is retarded. 00:20:46 * Sgeo pokes pikhq now 00:21:04 Also, presumably there is no 'network-rm', because that would make no fucking sense. 00:22:28 What does a lack of network-rm have to do with anything? 00:23:25 0x00 0x06 0x06 FNUM(1)/recursive STRINGNL/entityname 0x0A 00:23:39 Um, the trac version doesn't have the force option yet 00:24:09 Sgeo: Because if you use a filesystem function instead of a network function you COULDN'T accidentally 'rm -rf'. 00:25:36 wha? 00:27:01 /sigh. 00:27:29 0x00 0x06 something instead of 0x00 0x08 something doesn't sound too difficult to me 00:27:47 although I think the arguments would be wrong, but still.. 00:29:36 Maybe I should restrict FS operations to the current directory? 00:33:33 hahaha 00:33:48 pikhq: He's strapping a nuclear sub to a skateboard, then making sure the nukes can only aim in a certain range. 00:33:54 And putting them behind flimsy plastic. 00:38:35 ehird: LMAO 00:39:14 Sgeo: I'm going to recommend *against* that. 00:39:38 At the most, leave something saying 'For the love of god, don't use this without thinking about it.' in the spec. 00:40:12 Against restricting to the current directory (or below)? 00:40:29 pikhq, but someone could make a mistake in writing a BF program and accidentally call it 00:40:58 Sgeo: And someone could, by mistake, rewrite PSOX to be the evilest virus. 00:41:02 Then run it as root on a government system. 00:41:08 You could go to jail! Better stop writing PSOX. 00:42:22 And someone could, by mistake, do the 'rm' syscall rather than 'ls'. :p 00:42:38 Somehow, I think calling rm by mistake is much more likely than your scenario ehird 00:42:50 pikhq, well, I think the arguments are slightly different, but still... 00:44:00 I really do not understand how Sgeo's mind works. 00:44:49 (Paranoid yet ignorant that all the stuff he's building on takes the route of assuming the programmer isn't a ridiculous idiot?) 00:46:48 pikhq apparently made a bunch of mistakes when writing wget.b, and was testing it on PSOX.. if FS worked and he accidentally called the rm function.. 00:47:04 Then nothing would happen because he'd have permissions set up sanely. 00:48:09 Well, I'm leaving this madhouse for another day. See you people around. 00:48:21 -!- ehird has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 00:54:38 I suppose certain functions should have safety codes.. 01:26:44 -!- faxathisia has joined. 01:27:17 morning 01:42:58 morning 01:43:13 I guess some functions should have safety codes, and some not 02:15:39 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 02:53:55 * oklofok begun writing a cise interp, because he forgot the power cord of the computer the oklotalk interp was on somewhere 02:56:00 i love how variables are set in cise, "A = [1, 2, 3]; B = [2, 3, 5]" can just be written as 1 2 3 2 3 5;AB 02:56:51 ";" means "the following is a pattern match", and the list will automatically be cut in half... this is of course a marginal case, but cise is a marginal language 03:01:06 marginal language? 03:01:49 that was mostly wordplay, i meant it's not meant to have any use except for being short with programs of the type seen in golfing. 03:02:01 oh 03:03:11 not that i'm deliberately making it impossible to extend, i'm just assuming the fact parsing is in the general case, well, impossible, cracks down with bigger problems. 03:03:41 at least i think it will suffer from the halting prob, i haven't defined semantics fully yet 03:04:38 lol. my cise quicksort is simply *wrong*. 03:04:52 it's not a typo, it's simply the wrong algo. 03:04:59 i'm going to hurt myself. 03:05:34 /2;A b:C,',JnB this is some weird hybrid of mergesort and quicksort 03:05:57 cuts list in half, sorts both sides, and puts the middle element back in the middle 03:07:23 i'm very tempted to leave all constants impossible to put in the source :P 03:07:36 so that number 2 could not be "2" 03:07:52 you'd have to do something very weird to get it 03:08:46 * oklofok is fairly sure you don't need numbers for algorithms 03:17:31 you can implement nats in just about anything 03:20:24 bsmntbombdood: i'm aware of that. anyway, new quicksort: h:L,JnH'/#>h 03:20:40 O.o 03:21:04 the expression separation syntax i'm using is mostly good for making things *clearer*. i'm not sure why the fuck i have it... :D 03:21:33 Jn pattern seems common 03:22:54 patternmatch onto h:L (== cut off head, put in h, put rest of list on stream because it's uppercased)... then, join with h (the head) the two lists returned when recursed throught the two results of mapping >h through the list collecting smaller and bigger results 03:23:05 *through 03:24:55 /# is one of my more "complex" functions, it takes a function f and a list l, then maps f on l, sorts results and groups identical adjacent results (identical results are ofc always adjacent in a sorted list...), then performs both the same sorting and the same grouping the the list l 03:25:11 it's not actually complex, just hard to explain in a short manner... 03:28:31 hmm... it seems it's not even trivial to define in cise 03:28:35 that's not good... 03:28:38 Is anyone going to fiddle with PSOX 1.0b1 when it's released? 03:28:58 Sgeo: are you going to play with cise when i finish my interp? 03:29:03 cise? 03:29:09 :D 03:29:15 at least i know what yours is :P 03:29:27 you prematurely proved my point 03:30:58 btw. did anyone actually read my explanations? the function is a bit complex, i may have a fundamental error there 03:31:13 i'll test once i get the basic shit rolling 03:31:59 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:32:37 -!- Judofyr has joined. 03:34:12 Sgeo: anyway, because i too am an attention whore, cise is my *awesome* language 03:34:35 it's so awesome, you could say "awesome is cise", and not be wrong. 03:35:31 wtf... i have failed in bubblesort too 03:37:16 oklofok, wiki page? 03:37:26 not yet, i'm writing a spec now 03:53:57 -!- oklofok has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:53:58 -!- atsampson has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:54:00 -!- dbc has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:54:00 -!- cherez has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 03:54:17 -!- oklofok has joined. 03:54:17 -!- atsampson has joined. 03:54:17 -!- dbc has joined. 03:54:17 -!- cherez has joined. 03:55:29 * Sgeo eats a netsplit for dinner 03:57:18 -!- bsmntbombdood has changed nick to grub. 03:59:53 * oklofok goes off to get some grub -> 04:17:58 * Sgeo is going to sleep now. Good night 04:19:00 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 04:21:24 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:21:34 -!- grub has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 04:21:37 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:22:20 /whois bsmntbombdood 04:22:23 whoops 04:22:29 * oklofok fails at stalking 05:07:27 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:46:27 -!- louzer has joined. 06:46:47 -!- louzer has quit (Client Quit). 06:54:24 -!- Judofyr has joined. 07:23:03 -!- Judofyr has quit. 07:30:16 -!- atsampson has quit (Connection reset by peer). 07:45:26 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:51:10 -!- GregorR has joined. 07:51:53 -!- atsampson has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:10:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:44:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Read error: 110 (Connection chickened out)"). 10:46:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 11:05:53 -!- slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:06:08 -!- slereah_ has joined. 11:09:50 is it possible to make a quine in brainfuck I wonder 11:11:04 Yes it is, here's one for example http://www.bf-hacks.org/hacks/quine.b 11:13:05 interesting 11:13:22 I find befunge source a lot easier to follow than brainfuck btw, is that normal? 11:14:31 I can't read befunge 11:14:39 I can't program in any stack language at all though 11:27:42 I find stack languages quite easy 11:27:53 compared to languages like brainfuck 11:28:12 visualizing the path is easy for me 12:11:11 * slereah_ received a book on modal logic. 12:11:19 I shouldn't have bought the cheap version. 12:11:24 Some ass took note in it. 12:11:33 :/ 12:11:58 I like it when I got a book from the library and someone "corrected" something in the book wrong 12:12:26 In that case, it isn't so moch corrected as "I need money for a notebook" 12:12:34 oh :/ 12:12:35 Maybe that's why he sold it. 12:12:39 lol 12:12:40 To buy a notebook. 12:12:46 But now, he doesn't have the book! 12:12:52 hahaha 12:12:55 Quite the conundrum. 12:13:59 "This is a metaproof of a metatheorem, not a proof of a theorem" 12:14:09 Can't you write that on a piece of paper you cheap bastard? 12:14:16 rofl.. 12:14:31 (wtf is a metaproof?) 12:14:59 I suppose it's a proof done outside the system itself 12:15:23 A proof uses the axioms and rules of inference of the system, a metaproof something outside of it 12:17:27 * slereah_ reads the description of the book where he bought it 12:17:28 Book Description: Shows general cover wear. Highlighting and writing 12:17:28 throughout. Otherwise no problems. 12:17:35 Maybe I should have read it. 12:18:50 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 12:35:27 -!- Corun has joined. 12:55:55 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 12:58:51 -!- timotiis has joined. 13:50:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 14:47:59 slereah_: is there anything like "I came up with a brilliant proof for this, but it's too big to fit in the margin" anywhere in the book? 14:48:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:11:57 -!- BMeph has joined. 15:37:33 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:44:23 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 15:45:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:16:16 RodgerTheGreat: I don't know! 16:16:44 My guess would be some sort of class context. 16:16:54 Possibly with the author himself! 16:17:04 (There's the phone number of the author in the book) 16:18:40 Although since there's also the adress of the university, I guess not 16:18:54 I'm not too sure what the point of the phone number and all is. 16:22:00 -!- atsampson has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:33:04 -!- atsampson has joined. 18:02:21 -!- ihope has joined. 18:02:39 Ello. 18:03:03 Hello sir. 18:06:01 -!- jix has joined. 18:07:20 -!- RedDak has joined. 18:35:40 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:46:37 -!- cherez has quit ("Leaving."). 18:46:46 -!- cherez has joined. 18:51:12 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:59:33 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 19:21:14 -!- olsner has joined. 19:23:04 -!- jix has joined. 19:36:10 An amazing mix of the serious and parody: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3563/microsoft_excel_revolutionary_3d_.php?page=1 19:40:38 Awesome. 19:43:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:52:43 hi 19:52:46 http://www.bash.org/?845468 19:53:16 :((( 19:53:27 so totally should have been ++sheep; not sheep++; 19:54:09 (wait do you read sheep++; as 'increment sheep'?) 19:55:06 as post increment 19:55:15 ++sheep would be pre-increment 19:55:33 "post increment sheep" "sheep post increment" or what? 19:55:47 iirc (but I'm not sure) related sequence point in C 19:55:53 why would it matter? 19:55:55 faxathisia, err? 19:56:09 faxathisia, the former I would say 19:56:16 at least in English 19:56:17 semantically it makes no difference to the code 19:56:30 faxathisia, with post and pre no, indeed 19:56:31 but it matters to whether or not it rhymes 19:57:03 and for me it didn't rhyme because I read it "sheep plus plus" 19:57:26 lol, that should be a programming language 19:57:33 lol 19:57:48 language of the day 19:57:50 I do! 19:58:00 you got a infinite queue of sheeps, jumping over the gate (ie, pushing them onto the stack) 19:58:03 something like that 19:58:25 anyone want to write a spec for it? 19:58:26 A queue jumping on a stack? :o 19:58:38 slereah_, err, sheeps 19:58:56 anyway 19:59:10 I bet you could base a programming language on counting sheeps 19:59:34 But what can you do with that language? 19:59:43 oh wait, with ++, hm it got to be object orientated 19:59:52 or abject oriented 20:00:16 That's the problem with awesome ideas. You need to make instructions out of them. 20:00:23 gate would have to be a critical section, for concurrency issues 20:00:31 faxathisia, "abject"? 20:00:41 as coined by GOTO++ 20:00:53 faxathisia, *googles* 20:01:20 curse you heisenbug, sql error again 20:01:25 from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doquery". MySQL returned error "1030: Got error 127 from storage engine (localhost)". 20:02:55 argh, manual only in French 20:03:23 so impossible for me 20:03:29 faxathisia, tell me about abject 20:03:38 * slereah_ be French 20:03:40 I don't know French and GOTO++ seems to lack an English manual 20:04:02 It's from this http://gpp.niacland.net/faq.html.en 20:04:07 It's hilarious 20:04:10 slereah_, ok, I'll write a programming language in Swedish then 20:04:21 slereah_, and tell you that too :P 20:04:36 :D 20:04:52 * slereah_ once thought of making a BF clone in ancient egyptian 20:05:01 you know that language 20:05:01 But unicode doesn't have hieroglyphs 20:05:07 slereah_, hahah 20:05:12 it doesn't? 20:05:13 wow 20:05:51 i thought it did 20:06:02 I looked! 20:06:21 There's the other standard (forgot the name) that had an attempt at it. 20:06:28 With 1500 fucking symbols in it 20:06:59 the egyptians must have been pretty advanced to have 1500 symbols for fucking 20:07:04 faxathisia, that page really doesn't explain it 20:07:09 It does 20:07:11 oerjan, hahah 20:07:14 Notice that, from a certain point of view, GOTO++ opens a new paradigm, the “abject-oriented programming”. Abject (from the latin abjicio, from ab-jectum: throw away, with violence) point to a radical movement of retreat, opposed to the welcoming of the object; the representation of the abject denotes the necessary distanciation against the real and its monstruous deployment. 20:07:31 faxathisia, yes, but what does that *MEAN* 20:07:38 nothing 20:07:40 lol 20:07:55 what about subject-oriented programming, anyone done that? 20:07:57 The whole thing is a joke 20:08:06 which I was referencinc 20:08:18 faxathisia, of course, it is a esoteric language 20:08:25 is there an interpreter for it? 20:11:05 yay, by befunge interpreter in bash alsmost pass the mycology test suite. it fully passes the befunge93 part and almost all items of befunge98 20:11:21 still the fingerprint stuff missing for example 20:11:34 I wonder, who are all those people who never talk? 20:11:45 slereah_, highlight them all and see? 20:11:56 I mean, you know, who are they really! 20:11:58 slereah_, I can go on for days without saying a word in this channel 20:12:04 Not what's their IP numbers. 20:12:13 I'm on a total of 378 channels currently 20:12:15 But some of them, I don't think I ever saw them talking! 20:12:26 slereah_, are your irc client on 24/7? 20:12:42 My computer is always on, at least. 20:12:51 And I usually look at the logs. 20:14:17 * AnMaster looks for ehird 20:15:39 is there something like mycology but for befunge 93? 20:15:44 what are missing of the required f98 features are only negative funge-space, multiple stacks (though quite a bit of that is done) and the fingerprint based loading 20:15:51 ehird bet I couldn't do it 20:16:11 lament, hm yes mycology does have a b93 part 20:17:39 oh wow, beQunge is really pretty 20:19:19 * lament is writing a befunge-93 interpreter 20:19:42 lament, well see http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/log/bashfunge/head 20:20:03 it is currently befunge08, a simplified befunge98 version 20:20:31 lament, in what language are you writing your befunge-93? 20:20:50 * slereah_ be wondering. 20:21:06 Is there a funge that's based on designing circuits? 20:21:07 "be wondering"? You mean "is wondering"? 20:21:17 Yes. But with "be" to sound cooler. 20:21:19 slereah_, interesting, how do you mean 20:21:23 Also popped collars. 20:21:51 Well, you design a circuit in ASCII. 20:22:05 And run it. 20:22:25 AnMaster: python 20:22:37 lament, well befunge93 is easy 20:23:13 slereah_, interesting, but would it be a funge really? self modification would not be possible I think 20:23:32 slereah_, btw: 20:23:34 * AnMaster be funge 20:23:36 * AnMaster runs 20:23:49 Well, I just mean being 2D. 20:23:56 I'm not too knowledgable on funges 20:24:08 slereah_, why not make it? 20:24:28 Because I'm not too sure I'd be able to make a parser for it. 20:24:37 I already have trouble making Mulambda. 20:24:46 So 2D is kinda hard 20:24:50 What's Mulambda? 20:25:13 I'm trying to make a language based on µ-recursive functions. 20:25:29 err what is a "µ-recursive function"? 20:25:34 Because for too long, the grandfather of all computing has been ignored! 20:25:38 micro-recursive? 20:25:44 AnMaster: You define a list of functions. 20:25:49 There's 4 primitives : 20:25:50 it is shown that the μ-recursive functions are precisely the functions that can be computed by Turing machines 20:25:58 The 0() function 20:26:09 The successor function s(x) 20:26:12 slereah_, interesting 20:26:34 The projector function p,n(x1,x2,x3,...,xn) = xn 20:27:00 And the µ function, µy f(y,x1,x2,...) = smallest y such that f = 0 20:27:06 ok 20:27:16 and that is turing complete? 20:27:18 And it is indeed Turing complete. 20:27:26 The first one to be! 20:27:32 * AnMaster finds that hard to believe, but if you say so... 20:27:40 Well, not counting combinators and the analytical engine 20:27:51 btw, is the human brain turing complete? or is it more? or less? 20:27:54 But it's what launched all the theories on computability 20:28:10 The human brain is moar of a bounded storage machine 20:28:11 AnMaster: There's no evidence of anything 20:28:44 slereah_, true, not turing complete, but with infinite memory, would it be turing complete? 20:29:21 Well, any man can perform the instructions of a Turing machine! 20:29:33 It's not even clear (due to beliefs like souls.. religion.. supernatural things.. which are all impossible to disprove) that the brain is a computer 20:30:15 faxathisia: But what if a computer has a soul too :o 20:30:23 It just doesn't make sense to talk about something organic like this in a mathematical formalization 20:36:14 the human brain is asm-tc, it is easily programmable as if it was a turing machine, but it is bounded 20:36:37 anyone can simulate sk in their head 20:36:51 slereah_ just said that, i see 20:36:54 my head hurts a bit 20:37:12 Well, in your head gets awkward fast. 20:37:17 But a man with a pen can do! 20:37:27 you can't program a brain 20:37:38 sure you can 20:37:41 Sure you can. Tell someone a list of instructions! 20:37:50 They way a brain thinks is like the way gravity works 20:38:08 Through a metric tensor? 20:51:19 -!- Corun has joined. 20:53:10 slereah_: the projector function returns its last argument? 20:53:31 Well, it returns the nth argument 20:54:17 It's actually supposed to be p(k,n)(x1,x2,x3,...,xn) = xk 20:54:30 But really, the n is usually clear from the context. 20:55:53 slereah_: You could write an interpreter in lisp without having to write a parser 20:56:13 I hope you're right! 20:56:14 READ 20:56:27 Learning real languages isn't much fun 20:57:02 a lot of people think it's not a real language :P 20:58:00 Does it have more than 30 instructions? 20:59:43 Only two instructions are required: "next program" and "run". 20:59:51 Heh. 21:00:13 Program number 27 is +++++++++++++++++++++++++++R. 21:00:28 Is this actually true? 21:00:38 (Because theoretically, you could totally do it) 21:01:10 Maybe I should make some statistics of the number of functions/commands/instructions/whatever in esolangs, to see if there's a trend 21:02:19 Is what actually true? 21:02:36 Next and run D: 21:02:46 It's possible, but very inefficient. :-) 21:03:09 Do you even need the run? 21:03:23 You do if you want these to actually be instructions. 21:03:29 make any character + and EOF run 21:03:35 And if you don't want the instructions to be psychic. 21:03:39 makes it easier to writea quine 21:03:51 Quine? Fun. 21:04:27 Well, repeating quine at least. 21:04:37 Just a loop with print x 21:04:38 Here we go: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Unary 21:04:40 *+ 21:04:45 I imagine an actual quine would be possible. 21:04:54 I know of unary. 21:09:20 "Should be treated and output" should be treated and output. 21:11:23 Put the main part of the program on the tape, put the part of the program that puts that on the tape on the tape, output that. 21:11:52 It might be possible to write a Unary quine in less than 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 characters, though that would require some talent. 21:13:00 just write it in brainfuck, and make the part outputting the brainfuck code write it in unary, then just convert into unary 21:13:21 doing it like that shouldn't be too hard 21:13:22 Also, there might not be enough matter in the universe to run said program 21:14:22 Plus, with unary, you can just use brute foce! 21:16:32 -!- ehird has joined. 21:16:41 HELLO 21:17:01 HI 21:17:04 HI DUDE 21:17:18 -!- ehird has set topic: Topic: Topic topic topic topic topic 20 topic topic 'topic topic topic' topic topic. | #topic | topic topic topic. 21:17:27 Message message message message message. 21:17:37 * faxathisia action 21:17:50 ALL CAPS 21:18:47 Question? 21:19:05 Word! 21:19:06 Answer. 21:19:26 "String" 21:20:20 no caps 21:20:37 Zot might be a better choice for unary. 21:20:52 Although it tends to be rather huge. 21:22:31 Type -> Type 21:22:40 and I repeat 21:22:53 dip :: 'R 'a ('R -> 'S) -> 'S 'a 21:22:58 awesomecakes 21:23:13 (also, dip is like the nicest thing ever. it makes stack language code pretty.) 21:23:49 on another note.. printf :: 'R str -> 'S 21:24:21 uncons :: 'R [a] -> 'R [a] a 21:24:23 err 21:24:25 But * is a type. :-P 21:24:25 ['a] 21:24:39 uncons :: 'R ['a] -> 'R ['a] 'a 21:24:46 which is really useful for functional stuffs. 21:30:06 faxathisia: do you like stack languages? 21:30:11 no 21:30:19 They make me feel stupid in the bad way 21:30:28 faxathisia: you'll like Joy! 21:30:32 it's not like forth 21:30:33 no I wont 21:30:33 it's a lot simpler 21:30:34 and purer 21:30:43 I tried to write a type inferer in it 21:30:43 faxathisia: seriously. 21:30:45 that was horrible 21:30:49 well, yeah, probably 21:30:54 but 'dip' &frenz are nice 21:31:15 It put me off stack languages for life 21:31:50 faxathisia: http://rafb.net/p/7ISFuM24.html 21:31:54 printf skeleton 21:32:01 it can, obviously, only be typechecked at runtime 21:32:10 it would require a very specialized typesystem to be otherwise :) 21:32:18 that's neat 21:32:26 if you have type info at runtime, just splatter check calls before 'print' in the 's','i',etc cases 21:32:36 faxathisia: i think that should be easy enough to read :) 21:32:55 'case' is the only real magic there 21:32:59 it is lispish 21:33:06 * faxathisia used case 21:33:07 [..] is a list, and a closure. 21:33:15 faxathisia: its not modeled on Joy's 21:33:17 that's my language 21:33:18 :P 21:33:26 It looks exactly like Joy 21:33:30 faxathisia: maybe so 21:33:32 but it's more fun 21:33:34 and it's strongly typed 21:34:08 hmm 21:34:17 "case" won't type well 21:34:23 in fact [...] as a sequence won't , in general 21:34:25 this is a pseudotype for it 21:34:53 case :: 'R 'a ['a ('R -> 'S)] -> 'S 21:34:58 where [a b] means 'a list of a and b' 21:35:21 for strong typing you're going to need several differen kinds of lists, like haskell has both lists and tuples 21:36:05 oerjan: indeed 21:36:19 oerjan: but i like the []y syntax 21:36:19 :-p 21:36:27 also, case is 21:36:31 [a b a b]... 21:36:41 which won't type even as a tuple (e.g. [(a,b)] would be [(a b) (a b)]) 21:42:05 ehird, 21:42:15 what are missing of the required f98 features are only negative funge-space, multiple stacks (though quite a bit of that is done) and the fingerprint based loading 21:42:15 ehird bet I couldn't do it 21:42:31 ehird, that is how far I got with my befunge in bash today 21:42:35 it's late here now though 21:42:49 ehird, how goes tuberculosis ? 21:46:10 AnMaster: On hold until I figure out how to reasonably manipulate fractions of bits 21:46:20 AnMaster: and 21:46:24 have you tried Mycology on it? 21:46:28 ehird, I have 21:46:33 that is how I can say what is left 21:46:34 :) 21:46:40 pretty good, then 21:46:41 link? 21:46:51 ehird, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/bzr/index.py/log/bashfunge/head 21:46:58 (if it's so easy, I'm tempted to micro-optimize a C one.)_ 21:47:07 ehird, well the x instruction, I got it working locally 21:47:11 but it isn't pushed yet 21:47:15 as it breaks other stuff 21:47:16 * oerjan wonders if Mycology would be a good cure for tuberculosis 21:47:19 the mycology guy is devilishly clever 21:47:57 ehird, but I think the hard bits are the bits left really 21:48:06 AnMaster: probably 21:48:12 AnMaster: do you support N-funge? 21:48:22 ehird, no, just befunge 21:48:22 that is, not just Une/Be/Tre 21:48:24 ah 21:48:32 ehird, with more, it would be harder I bet 21:48:39 AnMaster: they're all derived the same way algorithmically though aren't they? 21:48:39 no special cases 21:48:54 ehird, yeah, with a few more/less instructions 21:48:59 like "go into screen" and such 21:49:12 AnMaster: what does 6-funge look like? :-) 21:49:18 (Hmm. That's 'Sexfunge') 21:49:32 -!- ehird has set topic: Fe fi fo funge, I smell the brainfuck of an Englishman.. 21:49:43 ehird, depends on language, in Swedish six and sex are both the same word heh 21:49:46 "sex" 21:49:54 AnMaster: Sextuple 21:49:57 -> Sexfunge 21:50:02 Is that when you got mushrooms on your genitals? 21:50:07 s-expressions 21:50:12 readjust - 21:50:19 Sex, pressions, funge. 21:50:25 -_- 21:50:40 AnMaster: "HRTI" 0x48525449 High-Resolution Timer Interface 21:50:40 ehird, anyway, in befunge I can kind of cheat with wrapping 21:50:46 you will have trouble with that 21:50:56 ehird, I haven't done any extensions yet 21:50:57 "PERL" 0x5045524c Generic Interface to the Perl Language <-- you can do this though 21:51:01 and you don't have to support them 21:51:03 afaik 21:51:09 mycology tests them 21:51:13 so ha :) 21:51:17 ehird, and accepts if they don't exist 21:51:21 yes, but still 21:51:28 you should support TURT 21:51:31 because they're a b98 TURT quine 21:51:34 it draws itself using it 21:51:36 ehird, I won't implement such. I aim at correctness not speed also 21:51:42 beh 21:51:46 it's no fun without the fprints 21:51:54 ehird, e? 21:51:56 eh* 21:52:05 "TRDS" 0x54524453 IP travel in time and space <- this might be difficult 21:52:10 AnMaster: the TURT quine!! it's fun! 21:52:17 ehird, also I don't know how to do negative funge-space 21:52:26 maybe if I got three extra arrays 21:52:33 one for each "quadrant" 21:52:38 with origin in the middle 21:52:40 that could work 21:52:56 and a lot of fiddling with the index 21:53:10 "TRDS" 0x54524453 IP travel in time and space <- this might be difficult <-- in time? 21:53:20 ehird, anyway where is the registry over these extensions? 21:53:21 :/ 21:54:05 AnMaster: that's from the mycology readme 21:54:34 ehird, also I got some issues with array width, current local code reallocates everything if program tries to write in a cell that would be outside current array width 21:54:41 as I do it as a wrapped aray 21:55:02 line 1 = [0 +x], line 2 = [ const * y + x] 21:55:13 where const is first the longest line of the loaded code 21:55:25 it is time consuming reallocation 21:55:29 and the whole thing is slow 21:55:36 that's how you do raw screen stuff in an OS :-) 21:55:37 ehird, anyway if I wanted speed, I'd do it in C 21:55:43 0xB8000(insert correct number of 0s) 21:55:47 cast to unsigned char * 21:55:53 ehird, err 21:55:57 whatever 21:56:12 ehird, anyway reallocation is painfully slow 21:56:20 a few seconds for even small programs 21:56:28 with native 2D arrays it would be much better 21:56:29 :) 21:56:54 ehird, also, I'm not even going to try concurrent funge or file io or execute 21:57:00 because, those are optional 21:58:51 ehird, another thing, the y instruction is only partially implemented, date and time stuff I don't do yet, and currently I push -27315 when any a positive invalid entry is wanted (though I plan to change it to make it more compatible) 22:00:32 -!- BMeph has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:01:14 ehird, feel free to make patches to my code! 22:01:21 ;P 22:01:48 actually once I get this working, I may do a C version 22:01:51 or maybe objc 22:04:42 objc<3 22:04:45 objc+os x<3 22:05:10 AnMaster: fix yur bzrweb 22:05:14 I wish objc would replace c++ 22:05:21 yes, me too 22:05:31 It's everything C++ should have been 22:05:32 and all the NS apis, oh my, <3 22:05:44 gnustep is kind of useless though :) 22:05:59 so i hope someone writes a decent implementation of all of those nice APIs that is cross-platform 22:06:09 otherwise, people will have to buy macs to use my software. how will i live. :( 22:09:54 I'm going to write one in Python. But it'll be fast, thankfully. 22:09:56 Why? numpy. 22:10:01 It'll be spending most of its time in C. :P 22:10:14 I should call it f3nge (see topic) 22:11:10 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 22:12:26 objc seems kinda lame 22:12:32 lament: lies 22:12:34 it is awesome 22:12:42 take smalltalk, take c, and make them actually hug 22:12:49 You should try writing 11k line programs in it with a friend 22:12:56 ehird: yeah, yeah 22:12:58 It's a decent language 22:13:14 (as opposed to C++: take modula-3 and god knows what other crap, take c, mash them together in a FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT and add some more crap that makes it incompatible with c and oooh turing-complete compilation etc etc etc) 22:13:24 ehird: i don't like having to write an interface and an implementation for everything. And why are instance variables part of the interface? 22:13:53 kind of irrelevant details 22:13:55 and, of course, there's NO STANDARD LIBRARY which completetly KILLS any potential the language might have had. 22:14:44 there is a standard library, dear lament 22:14:46 It's called NS* 22:14:50 um 22:14:52 ...yeah. 22:14:56 nah 22:15:03 fyi the NS classes are awesome. 22:15:06 It's called objcruntime.h 22:15:07 :P 22:15:11 faxathisia: eek. :-) 22:15:21 the NS classes as provided by gnustep? 22:15:40 lament: no, Apple. But I am biased. ;) 22:15:45 oh I wrote a parodey 22:15:51 parodey? 22:15:53 ehird: oh, apple, sure. I agree. 22:15:56 is that a parody involving e? 22:15:59 parody 22:16:08 lament: yeah other platforms need a good implementation 22:16:09 ehird: but locked-in languages are silly 22:16:14 http://fax.twilightcoders.net/CocoaC/ 22:16:19 but openstep exists 22:16:19 apple pretty much owns objc 22:16:24 and needs some love 22:16:24 ;) 22:16:27 witness objc 2.0 22:16:34 faxathisia: haha, yeah, i hate that tutorial 22:17:12 * faxathisia think .. if anyone has a chance of understanding this kind of humor it's someone from #esoteric 22:17:22 faxathisia: however i do like cocoa 22:17:23 so die die die 22:17:27 faxathisia: hahaha 22:17:41 (Also, sscanf is a horrid abomination from hell. That's why. :P) 22:17:46 That's just a biproduct of my work writing an objc bride in CL btw 22:19:09 Is cocoa a parody avoiding a particular vocalic symbol? 22:19:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 22:20:14 lovely tutorial 22:20:20 ty :D 22:22:16 Also, why is this involving bridal affairs? 22:30:06 hmm 22:30:14 faxathisia: you actually use CL? :) 22:30:25 well, KigForth now does a little bit of stuff 22:30:26 for a couple years yeah 22:31:00 I have a program that does 6 7 * . 22:31:13 it uses a word in forth to do call * 22:31:34 SimonRC: meh 22:31:37 i tried kigforth when you posted it 22:31:39 syntax errs. 22:31:42 yes 22:31:50 I did say I had'nt tried to compile it 22:32:01 SimonRC: Make kigforth strongly typed! 22:32:11 no 22:32:15 it's a Forth damnit 22:32:32 SimonRC: but strongly-typed functional concatentative languages are fun 22:32:54 wow @ N0x35C49E 22:32:59 http://pastebin.ca/931031 22:33:05 lament: ??? 22:33:18 noxes cage? 22:33:27 SimonRC: that c code is actually really nice 22:33:33 huh? 22:33:38 i wish all c was like that.. i hate looking at most c :p 22:33:57 deadpan sarcasm doesn't work that well on IRC 22:33:57 assert(sizeof(C*) == sizeof(C)); 22:33:59 that's quite a demand 22:34:06 not really 22:34:08 SimonRC: good thing -- it wasn't sarcasm 22:34:15 really? 22:34:20 thanks 22:34:22 faxathisia: do you like it? 22:34:58 the idea is that C is a "cell" type: a union of equal-sized ints, pointers, function pointers, etc 22:35:01 like CL? Yes It's fanstic 22:35:25 the asserts make the program blow up meaningfully if the types aren't the same size as the union 22:35:29 fantastic .. beh cannot type 22:35:38 no, my paste 22:35:53 I ought to comment the cryptic variable names a bit more 22:35:59 SimonRC: your C is too advanced 22:36:03 SimonRC: in forth cells are untyped.. 22:36:09 they're just "int" 22:36:19 and internally, cast into (int *) when doing odd stuff 22:36:46 but casts are too long textually 22:37:07 SimonRC: Easily solvable. 22:37:15 #define C(x) (x) 22:37:17 .p for a pointer, .s for a string, .i for an int, .f for a function pointer, etc are easier to read IMO 22:37:20 #define CP(x) (x*) 22:37:26 SimonRC: and maybe so, but it's not Forthy 22:37:27 :) 22:37:42 hmm 22:37:54 mm... maybe i should learn CL after all 22:38:27 Combinatory logic? 22:39:42 lisp 22:40:03 CL? 22:40:12 Common Lisp 22:40:15 Oh. 22:40:59 heh, obviously the definition of fetch should be: 22:41:01 W(st,fe,"!" ,*T.p=S;D;D) 22:41:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:41:16 I like ;D;D to drop two items from the stack 22:41:24 it looks... happy 22:42:38 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:53:03 Hm. Maybe I should write Clock Punk in C. 22:53:18 It has an easy syntax and concept, and it would be faster. 22:53:44 Although I think I need to separate the I/O from the memory. 22:54:09 The input is a nightmare when it's on the memory. 22:55:08 Already bad enough to deal with the input time! 22:56:07 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:12:23 "For output, the machine would have a printer, a curve plotter and a bell. " 23:12:23 ... 23:12:27 A bell for output? 23:12:33 Is that for error messages? 23:14:50 For getting attention, I suppose? 23:16:37 Type "solve P = NP, then start ringing", go get coffee, come back, go get a sandwich, come back, go get a taco, come back, go get a bottle of chocolate milk, come back, go get a banana, come back... 23:18:09 "I have a proof for P = NP, but unfortunately it is too long for this IRC server's flood limit" 23:18:14 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 23:19:34 All proofs of P = NP can be put into the form "X. X implies P = NP. Therefore, P = NP." 23:19:56 If both X and "X implies P = NP" are decently easy to prove, there you go. 23:20:48 -!- atsampson has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:32:05 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 23:36:53 -!- Corun has joined. 23:48:54 -!- ihope_ has joined. 23:57:34 ihope: P = NP, because I said so. 23:57:36 QED. 23:58:19 SimonRC: I am writing a forth in the same style now! 23:58:23 int main() {for(;;)NEXT();return 0;} 23:58:23 :D 23:58:34 P=NP is so boring. 23:58:45 P\=NP is in 23:58:47 Let's make something bolder. 23:58:52 Like NC=EXP 23:58:59 SimonRC: ok, this is awesome: 23:59:03 void NEXT() {ip++();} 23:59:17 ehird: you forgot I said so => P = NP. :-P 23:59:31 ihope_: I said so => X for all X 23:59:33 that is an axiom 23:59:37 Ah, I see. 23:59:55 So, MPEG looks like a series of JPEG images, doesn't it?