00:05:38 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 00:47:10 omfg 00:47:11 http://impomatic.blogspot.com/ 00:47:17 it's TAOCP in Redcode 00:47:21 we need one of them for Brainfuck 00:54:59 :D 01:07:05 OH MY 01:07:07 awesome esolang idea: 01:07:09 based on surreal numbers. 01:13:41 "Based on surreal numbers" is the idea? 01:16:01 -!- atsampson has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:16:17 -!- atsampson has joined. 01:17:15 ihope: yes 01:17:57 It'd be interesting to try to compute with Collatz sequences. 01:20:00 Start with an integer. Add its left-shift, increment, shift right as far as possible, repeat. 01:21:56 Or perhaps an esolang based on neural nets. 01:38:54 The latter is an idea I had. 01:42:10 We need a really novel idea. 01:42:16 * ihope searches Wikipedia for a really novel idea 01:42:57 Really novel idea: Charles C. Comstock. Let's make an esolang based on Charles C. Comstock. 01:45:21 SimonRC: Regular combinators :o 01:47:04 Slereah: huh? 01:48:12 Slereah: what are these "Schofinkel's combinators"? 01:48:16 (I was sleeping) 01:48:25 Also, it's Schonfinkel 01:48:33 I can never remember the spellin 01:48:34 g 02:04:51 An esolang based on Go, how about. 02:06:15 Conway's game of life? :o 02:06:26 Bingo. 02:06:30 IIRC, the earliest simulations were done on a Go board ":0) 02:06:35 Among other things 02:06:51 We find a Conway's Life universal constructor and make an esolang to control it. 02:07:48 Something like set of rules-input? 02:08:24 What do you mean? 02:08:41 How about a game of Nomic with a Prolog mirror? 02:08:45 What do y'all say? 02:08:53 A Prolog mirror? 02:09:26 ihope: Step one: universal constructor. 02:09:29 (good luck) 02:09:41 Well, a game of life is defined by the rules governing the life-death of cells 02:09:42 Thank you. I'll begin work immediately. 02:09:43 And the input 02:10:11 Yes, that. 02:10:36 A Prolog mirror that we work on continuously. 02:11:04 Sukoshi: what do you mean by a mirror? 02:11:26 It mirrors the progress of the Nomic game. 02:11:40 I see. 02:11:41 As in, we write our Nomic laws as clauses in Prolog. 02:11:53 Does anyone here have a copy of Winning Ways for your Mathematical Plays? 02:12:06 I know of two computer nomics. I don't think either has enough players. :-) 02:12:33 WHOA Sukoshi is here 02:12:41 we all thought you died :| 02:13:03 No, at the moment I'm browsing portions of our school website that shouldn't be browsed. 02:13:08 PerlNomic (http://nomic.info/perlnomic/), which I haven't fully understood, and AtNomic, which I haven't taken the time to really look at. 02:13:38 Sukoshi: Hey, you're here again! 02:13:59 :D 02:14:03 Anyways. 02:14:10 I have an OS kernel in progress. :) 02:14:18 http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/kernel.tar.bz2 02:14:51 Heh. 02:15:10 pikhq: Challenge: make it run gcc. 02:15:30 I know a guy (for small values of 'know') who worked on an OS for 2-3 years and got to the point where binutils&gcc etc ran on it 02:15:35 and could compile bash, iirc 02:15:37 pretty cool 02:15:58 Darn it. I have to crack this Tomcat password. 02:16:17 Sukoshi: Try throwing coffee at it. 02:16:20 Maybe I should just sniff the password using the machine farm at school I have control over. 02:17:05 ehird: That's the goal, actually. 02:17:15 pikhq: Awesomecakes. 02:17:23 Sukoshi: :) Nice progress on that prank. :D 02:17:33 Yah:) 02:17:34 I would start an OS project again if I didn't sux0r at asm 02:17:37 & x86 02:17:48 The gradebook was the easy part, meh. 02:17:53 pikhq: however, I can probably identify EXACTLY which tutorial you are using 02:17:53 :) 02:17:59 i see very familiar code 02:18:03 ehird: Except that I'm not using it. 02:18:15 I used it to get the multiboot header, Makefile, and linker script. 02:18:17 I have 1 goal fully fulfilled. The second goal partially fulfilled. The third goal is getting some progress. 02:18:25 Everything else, I've been reading up on documentation. 02:18:49 (frankly, that tutorial sucks. 'Just copy this code!!!' *Ugh*.) 02:19:06 pikhq: the idea is that you should be able to easily find out what the code doe 02:19:06 s 02:19:09 You're creating a kernel? 02:19:10 the info is in the x86 layout stuff 02:19:34 I spent most of the past week figuring out what the fuck to do with the GDT. . . 02:19:37 Well, I think there was supposed to be some universal constructor stuff included with Golly. 02:19:43 pikhq: Yes, the GDT is fux0red. 02:19:45 If I'd followed that tutorial, I'd be fairly clueless still. 02:19:52 I did it on my own, so I grok it. 02:19:53 pikhq: Done the interrupt handlers yet? 02:20:00 435345345 repetitive functions in asm. 02:20:00 Painful, but worth it. 02:20:07 ehird: Plan to. 02:20:23 Although I want to read up on nasm's macro features first. 02:20:27 pikhq: Um that package is a bit minimal for what I can see 02:20:38 Are you sure it was justified to put it in a .tar.bz2 and upload it somewhere? :p 02:20:55 It *is* minimal. 02:21:03 I just want to be able to say 'Oooh, shiny.' 02:21:04 :p 02:21:11 pikhq: I think your KPORT_H might break at some point 02:21:17 make it a #define? 02:21:41 Use __attribute__((always_inline))? :p 02:21:46 pikhq: bah 02:21:49 #define! :D 02:21:50 return 0xDEADBEEF; 02:21:51 heh 02:21:59 I prefer DEFEC8ED 02:22:04 (solaris coredump magicnum) 02:22:09 Why is the file called kernel.tar.bz2.tar, I wonder... 02:22:19 ihope: Um, what? 02:22:31 I think you suck. That's not what's on my server. ;) 02:22:42 I delegate the suckiness onto my computer. 02:23:07 I agree with your delegation. 02:23:28 pikhq: Once you've got a gcc on there, write your own text editor. 02:23:41 Using a pre-written text-editor to develop your OS stuff in your os sux0r. 02:23:44 You must write your own! 02:24:01 (Before you get gcc running, youc ould make your own c compiler to write a text editor with, or something, too. :p) 02:24:13 pikhq: May I suggest a blend of microemacs and non-vim vi? 02:24:55 -!- ihope has set topic: bsmntbombdood missed the orgy. | Fe fi fo funge, I smell the brainfuck of an Englishman. | pastebin - http://pb.eso-std.org/ | Is a topic.. 02:25:14 -!- ehird has set topic: bsmntbombdood missed the orgy. | Fe fi fo funge, I smell the brainfuck of an Englishman. | pastebin - http://pb.eso-std.org/ | qdb - http://qdb.eso-std.org/ Is a topic.. 02:25:26 gotta add non-existant eso-std.org domains before someone does something or other while i write them! 02:25:27 :) 02:26:17 You evil, evil persono, you. 02:26:42 * pikhq adds __attribute__((always_inline)) in kport.h 02:26:51 pikhq: nooooo 02:26:54 don't depend on gcc 02:26:54 srsly 02:27:04 you could be one of the only modern OSs not to 02:27:05 :-) 02:27:09 Too late. 02:27:14 if you write your own cc, you could probably even make it compile your kernel! 02:27:21 There *is* one other OS that doesn't depend upon GCC. . . 02:27:24 c'monnnn, make 'em defines or put the definitions in a c file ;) 02:27:29 pikhq: what, plan9? :p 02:27:34 Of course, whether Windows is *modern* is a matter of taste. :p 02:27:38 haha 02:27:46 i don't really consider windows an os 02:27:47 :) 02:27:59 I consider it a really *bad* VMS clone. 02:28:11 Comparing windows to vms? 02:28:14 sacrelihe 02:28:16 With Win32 thrown in for God-knows-why. 02:28:17 ge 02:28:36 pikhq: Hmm, do you actually use a vcs or are you a archive-up hobo like rodger :p 02:28:48 Windows NT has a biological link to VMS. . . 02:28:53 ehird: ATM, archive-up hobo. 02:29:01 pikhq: Git. Srsly. 02:29:05 I plan to set up SVN when I get around to it. 02:29:15 Time to award some Patent Titles! Overand is a Scamster. ehird is a Champion. Judofyr is a Minister Without Proposal. pikhq is a Twelve Months Long Service. 02:29:23 version control systems without the 'lulz, server' or the 'lulz, molasses' or the 'lulz, in-the-way' parts. 02:29:25 :) 02:29:31 ihope: I don't think I have twelve months yet. 02:29:38 Er, Minister Without Portfolio. 02:29:39 I should have six months' coming up in a bit. 02:29:44 * ehird is a Champion! Yaaaaay. 02:29:44 :p 02:30:01 Also: I'm the only Agoran entitled to grant Champion. 02:30:06 And only when someone wins. 02:30:18 * ehird 's confuzed 02:30:19 I'm also the only person required to *record* a win. 02:30:28 ihope and I are both Agorans. 02:30:33 oerjan is a former Agoran. 02:30:53 www.agoranomic.org 02:30:54 And you're a former B'an, and I'm a former former B'an. :-P 02:31:21 #esoteric is like the turnpike of the internet 02:31:26 the nerdy internet 02:31:30 nerdy, mathematical internet 02:31:52 We're the smartest people in the world! Kind of. 02:34:23 Your Mom. 02:34:52 Anata no haha. 02:35:01 Vian Patrinon. 02:35:08 Ta mere. 02:35:18 ima shelha 02:35:19 Tomaar Maa. 02:35:22 Via patrino estas patrifikulon. 02:35:23 tua mae 02:35:29 tvoya mat' 02:35:38 ¿Por qué estamos hablando en otras however-you-want-to-say-"language"-today? 02:35:54 ihope: Ne. 02:36:01 tu mama esta hablando en otras idiomas 02:36:13 Touché. 02:36:19 Douch'e. 02:36:29 Crochet. 02:36:35 Krikkit. 02:36:48 Ribbit. 02:36:55 Anta no LULZ ga Ookiku natta. 02:37:04 Sukoshi: :D 02:37:16 Belgium, man, belgium! 02:38:43 yare yare, konna ni natte shimatte... 02:39:12 . . . Okay, that's 3 Japanese speakers here. 02:39:46 Ja, sore ha koko ni sanjin no nihongo wo hanaseru hito ga iru. . . 02:41:55 http://www.verizonmath.com/checkyourmath.htm 02:42:14 Boku tachi no YUME HA 02:42:19 Sekai wo KAERU YO 02:42:37 yume? 02:42:39 Kurumayoi ni NOTTE! Bishounen no sonzai wo UBARECHA-U! 02:43:03 *BARECHA-U 02:43:03 . . . 02:43:09 ldgt [eax] 02:43:19 Ching chong? 02:43:25 Sukoshi: henna koto iwanaide yo 02:43:46 女の気紛れな夢は普通じゃないの。 02:43:52 pikhq: writing boot loaders are we? 02:44:04 *lgdt 02:44:15 Yay, someone spoke English! 02:44:17 * SimonRC tries Japanese too: box box box box box box box box box box 02:44:22 Anyone here play with Haiku, by the by? 02:44:23 olsner: Kernels. 02:44:34 HaikuOS that is. 02:44:38 Neko pan wa desu desu pan wa desu... um... domo arigato. 02:44:51 Moto desu, ne. 02:45:01 Pan bread is. Pan bread is. Many thanks. 02:45:08 *Pan = cat 02:45:33 pikhq: How is the State of the Development there? 02:45:54 I don't speak Japanese, but I ought to, because I've wanted to for years 02:45:56 Sukoshi: I have it set up to realise the difference between user-mode and kernel-mode. 02:46:02 Also, because 3 people is practically *peer pressure*! :D 02:46:11 And it makes me wonder what doing, say, jmp 0x08:0x00 would do. 02:46:24 (In Linux) 02:46:28 Hehe. 02:46:37 Well I heard threads were there like water. 02:46:50 ehird: learning japanese gives you access to whole internets full of desu 02:46:55 I'm going to test it. 02:47:30 don't learn Japanese. 02:47:56 olsner: just what i've always wanted 02:48:03 :| 02:48:49 Apparently, gas doesn't much like long jumps. 02:49:01 as an added bonus, you'll be able to more fully enjoy your wednesdesus 02:49:09 pikhq: Bootstrap a low-level FORTH onto it. 02:49:42 olsner: and desu the desus on the desuweb? 02:49:55 desu desu hai 02:50:11 It segfaults. 02:50:21 jmp 0x08:0x00 02:50:25 Why can't I do that? :( 02:50:45 are you sure you want to jump to address 0? 02:50:46 olsner: Does it empower the desus on my Haskell desu? 02:50:52 olsner: Just testing. 02:51:00 Technically, that's address 0 in kernel mode. 02:51:01 ;) 02:51:20 Well, assuming they have GDT[8] for their ring 0 code segment. . . 02:51:25 * pikhq pulls up the Linux source 02:51:41 Are you testing wiht QEMU, pikhq ? 02:51:52 Bochs. 02:52:02 pikhq: try linux 0.1 02:52:05 it's very understandable 02:52:06 Aw. Why not QEMU? 02:52:16 QEMU is nice 02:52:26 Because I use Gentoo, and Qemu still doesn't build with GCC 4. 02:53:02 All I want is the bit that loads the GDT. 02:53:27 Maybe it's in the kernel entry point? 02:53:35 pikhq: Gentoo? aarrgh 02:54:03 f unroll loops! f unroll loooops! 02:55:03 * olsner knows too little of the specifics to be of much help 03:05:49 lol, I believe I've just found the bug in the bootloader/"operating system" I was working on in 2003 03:06:43 Well, *that's* bizarre. 03:06:48 Linux has a vm86 handler. 03:07:04 wait no... but it looked as if I'd mixed up dw and dd and produced a totally bogus jump address for jumping into PM 03:09:12 -!- ehird has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 03:09:21 * pikhq hurls 03:09:46 Linux has the world's *worst* way of going back into the BIOS to reboot. 03:10:16 They have a *char[]* of bytes that represent the machine code required to go back to 16-bit mode. 03:11:58 -!- ehird has joined. 03:15:04 so i'm reading HTDP... and it seems so far that Haskell would be a more appropriate language for the book 03:15:48 but it didn't get to the macros yet (i don't know if it ever does) 03:20:19 such bad taste, yet so funny: http://img.lulz.net/src/09_podborka_36.jpg 03:22:00 kekeke 03:22:19 very hard to tell black pieces apart 03:22:25 Racist. 03:22:47 the world is racist. 03:24:00 "Combining a rabbit-ears with a spot to form a rabbit is not permitted, although the programmer is free to use it should he find an EBCDIC reader which will properly translate a 12-3-7-8 punch." 03:24:05 Hm. 03:28:21 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:29:24 -!- ehird has quit (No route to host). 03:54:33 -!- Corun has joined. 04:18:14 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 04:21:37 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:30:36 anyway, 04:30 = bed-time 04:34:30 05:30 = even more so 04:34:38 -!- slereah_ has joined. 04:35:48 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:41:25 Nah. 04:41:37 Well, 05:30 isn't bad, but 04:30 is. 04:42:11 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:43:18 05:30 just implies a nocturnal schedule. 04:43:27 * faxathisia wakes up at 04:43 :S 04:44:24 Depends if you wake up at 08:30 like I do. 04:44:43 * pikhq wakes up at 06:00, usually. 04:45:07 -!- slereah__ has joined. 05:16:37 -!- slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:57:13 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:59:34 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:59:34 -!- atsampson has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:59:34 -!- faxathisia has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 06:59:34 -!- AnMaster has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 07:02:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 07:02:06 -!- atsampson has joined. 07:02:06 -!- faxathisia has joined. 07:02:06 -!- AnMaster has joined. 07:13:43 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:02:25 "The principal obstacle to an authentic emulation of the Engine is that, in modern colloquial parlance, it was mankind's first bold venture into the domain of vapourware. The Engine was designed, drafted, described, discussed, and debated, decade after decade, but it was never actually built." 08:02:26 Heh 08:03:47 Like a lot of things on this channel? ;) 08:04:46 Plenty of ideas thrown around to end up in the trash! 08:04:56 But we usually don't spend 30 years on it 08:11:43 -!- Judofyr has joined. 08:14:58 -!- ehird has joined. 08:15:02 when i left here before 08:15:06 my intention was to sleep 08:15:13 i would like to make it clear that this did not happen 08:22:15 Sleeping pills dude 08:24:47 Sleep is for the week. 08:25:00 Weak even :D 08:31:37 slereah__: Noes. 08:31:44 By the time I was ready it was after 7 08:31:50 No point sleeping after a time like that. 08:37:28 Hm. I wish pikhq was around. 08:37:55 Be careful whatr you wish for, or it might just happen :o 08:38:06 I know :D 08:42:41 squaring the circle is easy assuming π = 4 08:43:24 Or just using your ruler, with the pi graduation 08:44:28 Or just be a dick like Kronecker, and say that irrationals don't exist. 08:45:26 interesting 08:47:16 When Lindemann proved that π is transcendental in 1882 Kronecker said 08:47:17 Of what use is your beautiful investigation of π. Why study such problems when irrational numbers do not exist. 08:48:38 Squaring a circle? 08:48:55 Cantor also had problems with Kronecker. 08:49:01 Because Kronecker was a giant dick. 08:49:15 construct a square with the same area as a circle 08:49:19 Sukoshi: You take a circle, and you transform it into a square with the same perimeter 08:50:07 Kronecker had this notions that only integers really existed. 08:50:14 I think Kronecker is right, intuitionism is great.. 08:50:31 (there are finite constructions of the reals now) 08:50:54 Meh. 08:50:55 but it's fine to take axioms and construct them later on 08:51:57 it's just that, if you decide some new axiom "every set has a lowest upper bound" or some-such, without having constructed it from a consistent logic, how can you know that you still have consistency? 08:55:01 slereah__: [08:49] Because Kronecker was a giant dick. 08:55:07 My mind read 'was' as 'had' 08:55:11 Because of sleep-lack 08:55:13 Heh. 08:55:22 I'm not privy to those details! 09:00:25 faxathisia: What if I got into law? 09:00:34 I'm just looking for an opinion here :P 09:01:21 I don't know, there must be something to it.. one my school friends who basically a genious has dropped out of a math course to do politics and I think he wants to get into law 09:01:26 Does it involve neat uniforms and a lawgiver, and killing mutants? 09:01:40 and I can't spell :S 09:02:09 I'm considering law. I still love science, but I love law too and am good at it too. 09:02:18 Sukoshi: you cannot abadon 09:02:19 SCIENCE! 09:02:21 faxathisia: Think of it this way. Law is logic. 09:02:32 A bunch of horn clauses. 09:02:43 Except it's not just horn clauses in theory. It's horn clauses in practice. 09:02:53 Only fascists love law :o 09:03:02 Sukoshi: SCIENCE! 09:03:36 Heh. 09:04:01 WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE! 09:04:25 Your mom? 09:04:30 (Come on. You had that coming.) 09:04:45 Yeah. LIKE YOUR MOM 09:04:55 faxathisia: At least, that's how I view law. From a logic perspective. 09:05:13 SCIENCE! 09:05:18 S.C.I.E.N.C.E. SCIENCE 09:05:30 S.C.I.E.N.C.E. = SCIENCE CIENCE IENCE ENCE NCE C E 09:05:37 Stop saying that while I'm hacking Java code. You're making me feel dirty :P 09:05:55 Prolog for President! 09:06:08 Hahaha :D 09:06:16 Science H. Logic! 09:06:26 I have a friend in law school. 09:06:49 Saying it is related to logic is lies :o 09:06:55 (anyone know this ? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~fp/lollimon/ ) 09:07:16 Sukoshi: The Java is the gateway to EVIL and SUPERSTITION 09:07:23 NATURE'S FOUR-DAY HARMONIOUS TIME CUBE 09:07:23 err 09:07:24 I mean 09:07:25 SCIENCE 09:07:29 It's actually just incredibly boring. 09:07:29 lol 09:07:47 And when you realize Swing should have been decapitated due to horrible design issues, you feel more worthy using the language \o/ 09:08:08 But I have an exam to study for, so meh. 09:08:24 swing is great, 09:08:27 compared to awt :P 09:09:10 Oh gawd :D 09:09:20 GTK is great. I heard QT is a lot better though. 09:09:24 KDE is definitely nice. 09:09:59 I have a feeling that McCLIM is really really good .. if you know it inside out 09:10:14 but I don't know this, not used it enough 09:10:29 Qt<3 09:11:49 I've heard McCLIM suffered from overkill syndrome. 09:12:14 I love how simple/abstract GTK is. 09:13:24 also HTML is useful sometimes (by running a local webserver) 09:13:41 (defgeneric add (container widget)) <-- That's basically the work horse of GTK. 09:14:07 Sukoshi: HOWEVER, gtk sux0r in its actual widgetness. 09:14:12 e.g. see: gtk+os x 09:14:15 Huh? 09:14:23 Oh, you mean cross-platform issues? 09:14:27 mostly, yeah 09:14:34 and i personally don't like the look-'n-feel on x11 09:14:36 I don't doubt that. It's meant to be a Linux thing, heh. 09:14:36 but that's just me 09:14:46 Sukoshi: still the windows support is passable 09:14:55 Yeah. It's livable. 09:15:30 and, although that 'add container widgt' is simple 09:15:33 a nested structure model is far better 09:15:42 Hrm? 09:15:47 for languages with no brain -- like c -- you can build it up with some kind of add operation ;) 09:15:56 Sukoshi: it's like this: 09:15:58 foo = 09:16:01 foo = 09:16:02 ... 09:16:04 foo.add(bar) 09:16:05 etc 09:16:10 totally tedious way of working 09:16:12 I got nothing of that :P 09:16:17 when widgets are inherently nested 09:16:23 they should be treated as such 09:16:32 not as matryoshka dolls 09:16:39 Huh? 09:17:20 it's just the difference between imperative and declarative 09:18:43 Hm. An example? 09:19:29 faxathisia: yes 09:19:35 I think I get what you mean. Give the properties of different layers of a nested structure rather than building up the nest yourself? 09:19:40 Sukoshi: yep 09:19:49 Swing attempts that with its content panes. 09:20:02 It's ... not as good IMO. 09:20:02 the 'add' thingy is just a way to build up one of those structures because you can't actually do it in C.. 09:20:13 Sukoshi: well, come on, Swing anything is not a good comparison 09:20:19 Well in general. 09:20:25 really, gui toolkits right now are unbearable 09:20:26 I like the flexibility of a generic (add) 09:20:32 cocoa might be ok, i haven't tried it 09:20:43 but from what i've seen, they all overcomplicate the simple stuff and oversimplify the complicated stuff 09:20:54 & think in terms of C or some other similar language only 09:21:09 instead of having a higher-level abstract data model with the c/whatever imperative-style implementation being decoupled 09:22:37 ADD is perfectly Lispy. 09:24:36 Sukoshi: But not structured. 09:24:47