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02:15:52 <slereah_> Holy Batman, there's actually a functioning site for Iota http://barker.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/Stuff/Iota/
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06:38:35 <marshmallows> Can't you see that square is much better? The fundamental 4 CORNER DAYS PROVES 1 DAY 1 GOD IS TAUGHT EVIL I call down a Demonic Curse upon the Evil
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07:36:12 <adu> hi marshmallows
07:37:07 <adu> how are you
07:37:46 <adu> marshmallows: are you an obscurantist?
07:38:34 <adu> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obscurantism
07:39:06 <adu> "deliberate vagueness or abstruseness"
07:40:14 <marshmallows> I didn't actually mean to paste all that crap btw :/
07:41:49 <adu> I enjoy reading obscurantism, but only if it highlights the absense of the intense variety within the realm of the time tube
07:44:26 <adu> i think the best obscurantism i've seen tho is political
07:45:32 <adu> you know, the parts where they go on and on and on about how this one place has weapons, then they go on and on and on about how they are there...
07:45:57 <adu> then they briefly mention how they didn't find any...
07:46:20 <adu> then they go on and on and on about how they need to be there for other reasons...
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10:32:40 <AnMaster> is there any prolog *compiler* btw?
10:33:30 <AnMaster> I still find backtracking weird
10:34:01 <AnMaster> and IMO wasting of system resources, it is very time consuming to do backtracking iirc
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11:27:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm working on a protocol for debugger and funge interpreter
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15:43:34 <ehird> foo, bar, baz, quux and zonk
15:44:10 <ehird> i == true swap [] if that's clever
15:46:58 <ehird> AnMaster: prolog's don't do real backtracking that often..
15:48:58 <ehird> AnMaster: well, they try and do confusing inferrence stuff that i don't understand to avoid backtracking
15:49:10 <ehird> & i do believe that most prolog's backtracking is micro-optimized anyway
15:50:22 <ehird> AnMaster: so i wouldn't worry
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19:15:41 * SimonRC wonders if USAToday are coppying stories from the Onion: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-10-19-skyeurope-minusfare_x.htm
19:16:29 <ehird> THANK you for flying with us!
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19:30:10 <lament> peaker is so misguided.
19:30:22 <lament> although it is a really beautiful dream :)
19:30:35 <lament> and will probably happen eventually
19:31:22 <lament> ehird: not for modern programming languages. They're all optimized to be entered as text.
19:31:40 <ehird> lament: I doubt it will ever happen. Text is mungible, bungible, malleable, storable, movable stuff.
19:32:11 <lament> ehird: not really. it's just a bunch of characters.
19:32:20 <lament> ehird: consider writing with a pen on a piece of paper.
19:32:32 <lament> ehird: it's WAY more free-form than entering text in an editor.
19:32:47 <lament> ehird: in comparison, text is "structured"
19:33:08 <lament> and yet, we still use it
19:39:43 <lament> personally i would prefer the revolution to go the less structured way. That's how humans work
19:40:03 <lament> write your program as a bunch of notes on a piece of paper.
19:40:22 <lament> including diagrams, arrows, random doodles, etc
19:40:31 <ehird> personally i'm very happy with the status quo
19:40:42 <lament> then have your editor (presumably a strong AI) sort it out :)
19:41:09 <lament> i'm not. Modern programming languages clearly suck.
19:41:27 <lament> an unambiguous (to a human) description of an algorithm tends to be MUCH shorter than a corresponding program.
19:41:51 <ehird> lament: you might want to try K
19:42:01 <ehird> if it's shorter-than-description you're after
19:43:08 <lament> having a bunch of short builtins does not translate to expressivity
19:43:32 <lament> (corollary: paul graham is a moron)
19:45:14 <ehird> lament: to be honest the array paradigm of K seems to scale quite well to certain types of problems
19:45:17 <ehird> but i agree with the corollary
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19:55:10 <lament> subtextual.org certainly seems kinda lame
19:58:19 <ehird> lament: from a 2sec glance the 'everythign is serializable' is nice
19:58:25 <ehird> I ought to write something like that
19:58:37 <ehird> Serializing continuations, functions, etc.
19:58:47 <ehird> You could serialize sockets, maybe, in a limited way (store host+port)
20:00:38 <lament> sisc doesn't try to revolutionize programming
20:01:33 <lament> and it isn't weirdly visual and stuff :)
20:01:44 <ehird> lament: sure, but you can serialize procs&conts&all that
20:01:47 <lament> what i really don't understand is why peaker thinks haskell is a good language for his task
20:02:04 <lament> (as opposed to, like... scheme)
20:02:26 <ehird> lament: he doesn't
20:02:32 <ehird> remember his "int x = y" example?
20:05:09 <lament> btw, is sisc like, the best scheme out there?
20:06:01 <Deewiant> http://reddit.com/info/6dnlu/comments/ seems to lean towards PLT
20:09:13 <lament> PLT has a horrendous UI :)
20:11:01 <lament> PLT has that typed scheme thing though, and a lot of other packages
20:19:21 <ehird> lament: mzscheme = console plt
20:19:28 <ehird> you can use it with emacs or w/e
20:19:32 <ehird> Chicken is good too
20:19:40 <ehird> however, sisc is based on java
20:19:45 <ehird> both positive and negatiev
20:20:01 <marshmallows> SISC is actually really good but a bit slow compared to others
20:20:10 <ehird> lament: DrScheme's actual features are good though
20:20:13 <ehird> even if it is a bit ugly
20:26:18 <lament> sisc just seems... clean
20:26:25 <Slereah> Serious instruction set? :o
20:26:56 <ehird> Second Interpreter of Scheme Code
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20:28:49 * lament so wishes there was ONE scheme implementation :)
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21:22:16 <ehird> http://codepad.org/PPXTpdOr this is pretty esoteric :)
21:22:29 <ehird> things I want to fix: make it valid C too, instead of just valid shell
21:22:41 <ehird> and fix the program there
21:22:48 <ehird> it should say 'I am ./script.c'
21:22:52 <ehird> not 'I am /tmp/sdfoisudoi'
21:22:57 <ehird> comments welcome :)
21:23:23 <marshmallows> I didn't bother to do it but it seemed useful earlier
21:23:31 <ehird> marshmallows: Improving it now
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21:24:49 <ehird> marshmallows: http://codepad.org/2FseWr0r
21:25:07 <ehird> removes the file even on compiler failure
21:27:18 <GregorR> I don't think you're propagating $CODE properly
21:28:15 <ehird> GregorR: you're right. just fixed it
21:28:28 <ehird> http://codepad.org/bUixvfvj
21:28:31 <ehird> its a line longer now
21:28:47 <ehird> i don't need \n after the comment line
21:29:24 <ehird> /* will always fail in shell?
21:30:42 <GregorR> Uh, it will after a #, that's for sure.
21:30:50 <GregorR> Fail to do anything, that is :P
21:31:03 <ehird> I mean without the #*
21:31:07 <ehird> It assumes one thing:
21:31:19 <ehird> there isn't an executable that gets sorted first in /
21:31:39 <ehird> Currently it starts:
21:32:07 <ehird> Trying to reduce lines & get it valid c
21:32:15 <ehird> Because, if I can get it valid C
21:32:17 <GregorR> How about #define true /*\ntrue
21:32:18 <ehird> then I can remove all my filtering
21:32:25 <GregorR> Nah, that probably won't work, come to think of it :P
21:32:27 <ehird> and just have it call gcc
21:33:58 <GregorR> How about just #if 0 #endif instead of /* */?
21:34:14 <ehird> GregorR: Great idea!
21:34:23 <ehird> But the shebang must be the first line of the file.
21:35:15 <GregorR> Oh, you don't want to be tail'ing that off? :P
21:35:26 <ehird> ahaaa! wait a second!!
21:35:36 <ehird> except the problem is
21:35:39 <ehird> i don't want to define anything
21:35:41 <ehird> solution: undef after that
21:35:51 <GregorR> Uh, plus the shebang line isn't the first line then?
21:36:17 <ehird> GregorR: Don't see how to do this :(
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21:39:58 <ehird> GregorR: Any thoughts?
21:40:11 <ehird> basically, #!foo and #! foo are acceptable
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21:43:09 <ehird> GregorR: I don't think there's any way to get cc to acecpt it
21:50:24 <ehird> GregorR: It's getting more and more advanced by the minute :p
21:50:29 <ehird> FILE=`mktemp -t _$(echo "$0" | tr -c [:alnum:] _).XXXXXXXXXX` || exit 1
21:50:29 <ehird> if gcc -Wall -xc "$0" -o "$FILE"; then "$FILE" $*; CODE=$?; else CODE=$?; fi
21:50:29 <ehird> rm -f $FILE; exit $CODE
22:02:53 <ehird> Okay. GregorR, marshmallows: http://codepad.org/09A2RJCH A c-script that turns a c file into a c-script
22:03:47 <GregorR> I wonder what system the remote side runs to get that output.
22:04:13 <ehird> GregorR: it's described somewhere
22:04:21 <ehird> http://codepad.org/about
22:05:14 <ehird> GregorR: Here! http://www.hackerdashery.com/2008/03/scaling-at-2am-with-ec2.html
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22:05:37 <ehird> Basically, lots of Amazon C2 services which automatically rewipe themselves regularly
22:05:49 <ehird> & all programs under them run under heavy tracing & each in their seperate chroot jail
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