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02:15:52 <slereah_> Holy Batman, there's actually a functioning site for Iota http://barker.linguistics.fas.nyu.edu/Stuff/Iota/
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06:36:58 <codechAos> #triangleparty
06:37:20 <marshmallows> codechAos: #squareparty
06:37:32 <marshmallows> It's much more perpendicular
06:37:36 <codechAos> noooo
06:37:39 <marshmallows> yes
06:37:41 <codechAos> we are against square
06:37:45 <codechAos> *squares
06:37:50 <codechAos> its even in the topic
06:38:35 <marshmallows> Can't you see that square is much better? The fundamental 4 CORNER DAYS PROVES 1 DAY 1 GOD IS TAUGHT EVIL I call down a Demonic Curse upon the Evil
06:38:35 <marshmallows> Americans who ignore Earth's 4 Corner Days
06:38:35 <marshmallows> within a single rotation of 4 quadrant Earth.
06:38:35 <marshmallows> Believing in a God when there is proof that
06:38:35 <marshmallows> there is no God, dooms humanity to a Hell
06:38:36 <marshmallows> of Horror.   America is 1/2 way to it's Hell.
06:38:38 <marshmallows> The American "Bill of Rights" - "Freedom of
06:38:40 <marshmallows> Speech", is BullShit. MisEducators suppress
06:38:42 <marshmallows> The Time Cube Principle and will not allow
06:38:44 <marshmallows> Students to discuss or debate it's merits and
06:38:46 <marshmallows> application.  Also, the Academic bastards
06:38:48 <marshmallows> will not even allow Time Cube on their web
06:38:52 <marshmallows> sites. On Yahoo, Time Cube - 81,000,000
06:38:55 <marshmallows> and on Google was once 89,000,000 - until
06:38:56 <marshmallows>  cut back to 3,000,000 by ignorant believers.
06:39:16 <codechAos> pastebin?
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07:36:12 <adu> hi marshmallows
07:37:02 <marshmallows> hey adu!
07:37:07 <adu> how are you
07:37:45 <marshmallows> I'm rewriting my Prolog interpreter
07:37:46 <adu> marshmallows: are you an obscurantist?
07:38:20 <marshmallows> mm I don't think so
07:38:29 <marshmallows> well
07:38:34 <adu> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obscurantism
07:38:41 <marshmallows> I think I am actually but unintentionally
07:38:51 <adu> 2 a :
07:39:06 <adu> "deliberate vagueness or abstruseness"
07:40:14 <marshmallows> I didn't actually mean to paste all that crap btw :/
07:41:08 <adu> ok
07:41:49 <adu> I enjoy reading obscurantism, but only if it highlights the absense of the intense variety within the realm of the time tube
07:41:56 <adu> hehehe
07:44:26 <adu> i think the best obscurantism i've seen tho is political
07:45:32 <adu> you know, the parts where they go on and on and on about how this one place has weapons, then they go on and on and on about how they are there...
07:45:57 <adu> then they briefly mention how they didn't find any...
07:46:20 <adu> then they go on and on and on about how they need to be there for other reasons...
07:46:27 <marshmallows> yeah that can happen :p
07:46:50 <adu> :P
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08:43:29 <marshmallows> :D
08:43:37 <marshmallows> My rewrite is ~300 lines
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10:22:47 <AnMaster> marshmallows, of what?
10:24:42 <marshmallows> Prolog interpreter
10:32:30 <AnMaster> I see
10:32:40 <AnMaster> is there any prolog *compiler* btw?
10:33:01 <marshmallows> Yes
10:33:10 <marshmallows> Aquarius is an excellent one
10:33:28 <marshmallows> complining Prolog is really interesting
10:33:30 <AnMaster> I still find backtracking weird
10:34:01 <AnMaster> and IMO wasting of system resources, it is very time consuming to do backtracking iirc
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11:27:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm working on a protocol for debugger and funge interpreter
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15:43:34 <ehird> foo, bar, baz, quux and zonk
15:44:10 <ehird> i == true swap [] if  that's clever
15:46:58 <ehird> AnMaster: prolog's don't do real backtracking that often..
15:47:00 <ehird> they are clever
15:47:12 <AnMaster> hm?
15:48:58 <ehird> AnMaster: well, they try and do confusing inferrence stuff that i don't understand to avoid backtracking
15:49:10 <ehird> & i do believe that most prolog's backtracking is micro-optimized anyway
15:50:15 <AnMaster> mhm
15:50:22 <ehird> AnMaster: so i wouldn't worry
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19:15:41 * SimonRC wonders if USAToday are coppying stories from the Onion:  http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-10-19-skyeurope-minusfare_x.htm
19:16:29 <ehird> THANK you for flying with us!
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19:30:10 <lament> peaker is so misguided.
19:30:22 <lament> although it is a really beautiful dream :)
19:30:30 <ehird> lament: I agree
19:30:35 <lament> and will probably happen eventually
19:30:40 <ehird> I disagree
19:31:00 * SimonRC goes (pub)
19:31:22 <lament> ehird: not for modern programming languages. They're all optimized to be entered as text.
19:31:40 <ehird> lament: I doubt it will ever happen. Text is mungible, bungible, malleable, storable, movable stuff.
19:32:11 <lament> ehird: not really. it's just a bunch of characters.
19:32:20 <lament> ehird: consider writing with a pen on a piece of paper.
19:32:32 <lament> ehird: it's WAY more free-form than entering text in an editor.
19:32:47 <lament> ehird: in comparison, text is "structured"
19:33:08 <lament> and yet, we still use it
19:39:43 <lament> personally i would prefer the revolution to go the less structured way. That's how humans work
19:40:03 <lament> write your program as a bunch of notes on a piece of paper.
19:40:22 <lament> including diagrams, arrows, random doodles, etc
19:40:31 <ehird> personally i'm very happy with the status quo
19:40:42 <lament> then have your editor (presumably a strong AI) sort it out :)
19:41:09 <lament> i'm not. Modern programming languages clearly suck.
19:41:27 <lament> an unambiguous (to a human) description of an algorithm tends to be MUCH shorter than a corresponding program.
19:41:51 <ehird> lament: you might want to try K
19:41:53 <ehird> ;)
19:42:01 <ehird> if it's shorter-than-description you're after
19:42:05 <ehird> or oklotalk
19:42:07 <lament> not funny
19:42:21 <ehird> why not?
19:43:08 <lament> having a bunch of short builtins does not translate to expressivity
19:43:32 <lament> (corollary: paul graham is a moron)
19:45:14 <ehird> lament: to be honest the array paradigm of K seems to scale quite well to certain types of problems
19:45:17 <ehird> but i agree with the corollary
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19:55:10 <lament> subtextual.org certainly seems kinda lame
19:58:19 <ehird> lament: from a 2sec glance the 'everythign is serializable' is nice
19:58:21 <ehird> SISC can do that
19:58:25 <ehird> I ought to write something like that
19:58:30 <ehird> It would be nice
19:58:37 <ehird> Serializing continuations, functions, etc.
19:58:47 <ehird> You could serialize sockets, maybe, in a limited way (store host+port)
20:00:38 <lament> sisc doesn't try to revolutionize programming
20:01:33 <lament> and it isn't weirdly visual and stuff :)
20:01:44 <ehird> lament: sure, but you can serialize procs&conts&all that
20:01:47 <lament> what i really don't understand is why peaker thinks haskell is a good language for his task
20:02:04 <lament> (as opposed to, like... scheme)
20:02:26 <ehird> lament: he doesn't
20:02:32 <ehird> remember his "int x = y" example?
20:05:09 <lament> btw, is sisc like, the best scheme out there?
20:06:01 <Deewiant> http://reddit.com/info/6dnlu/comments/ seems to lean towards PLT
20:09:13 <lament> PLT has a horrendous UI :)
20:11:01 <lament> PLT has that typed scheme thing though, and a lot of other packages
20:19:21 <ehird> lament: mzscheme = console plt
20:19:28 <ehird> you can use it with emacs or w/e
20:19:32 <ehird> Chicken is good too
20:19:35 <ehird> lots of libs
20:19:40 <ehird> however, sisc is based on java
20:19:45 <ehird> both positive and negatiev
20:20:01 <marshmallows> SISC is actually really good but a bit slow compared to others
20:20:10 <ehird> lament: DrScheme's actual features are good though
20:20:13 <ehird> even if it is a bit ugly
20:26:14 <Slereah> SISC?
20:26:18 <lament> sisc just seems... clean
20:26:25 <Slereah> Serious instruction set? :o
20:26:56 <ehird> Second Interpreter of Scheme Code
20:27:15 <Slereah> Oh.
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20:28:49 * lament so wishes there was ONE scheme implementation :)
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21:22:16 <ehird> http://codepad.org/PPXTpdOr this is pretty esoteric :)
21:22:29 <ehird> things I want to fix: make it valid C too, instead of just valid shell
21:22:41 <ehird> and fix the program there
21:22:48 <ehird> it should say 'I am ./script.c'
21:22:52 <ehird> not 'I am /tmp/sdfoisudoi'
21:22:57 <ehird> comments welcome :)
21:23:10 <marshmallows> I wanted this !
21:23:23 <marshmallows> I didn't bother to do it but it seemed useful earlier
21:23:28 <ehird> hmmm wait...
21:23:31 <ehird> marshmallows: Improving it now
21:23:35 <marshmallows> It's nice how you can go
21:23:44 <marshmallows> // <applet code="..." ...>
21:23:47 <marshmallows> in a .java f ile
21:23:54 <marshmallows> for appletviewer
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21:24:49 <ehird> marshmallows: http://codepad.org/2FseWr0r
21:25:07 <ehird> removes the file even on compiler failure
21:25:54 <marshmallows> my Prolog interp is -fast- :D
21:26:05 <marshmallows> mutablestate++;
21:27:18 <GregorR> I don't think you're propagating $CODE properly
21:28:15 <ehird> GregorR: you're right. just fixed it
21:28:28 <ehird> http://codepad.org/bUixvfvj
21:28:31 <ehird> its a line longer now
21:28:42 <ehird> mm oh wait
21:28:47 <ehird> i don't need \n after the comment line
21:29:20 <ehird> hmm
21:29:24 <ehird> /* will always fail in shell?
21:29:26 <ehird> hopefully?
21:29:26 <ehird> :P
21:30:42 <GregorR> Uh, it will after a #, that's for sure.
21:30:50 <GregorR> Fail to do anything, that is :P
21:30:59 <ehird> No
21:31:03 <ehird> I mean without the #*
21:31:07 <ehird> It assumes one thing:
21:31:19 <ehird> there isn't an executable that gets sorted first in /
21:31:39 <ehird> Currently it starts:
21:31:44 <ehird> /* 2>/dev/null;
21:31:58 <GregorR> Ah, I see the quandry.
21:32:03 <ehird> Yeah.
21:32:07 <ehird> Trying to reduce lines & get it valid c
21:32:15 <ehird> Because, if I can get it valid C
21:32:17 <GregorR> How about #define true /*\ntrue
21:32:18 <ehird> then I can remove all my filtering
21:32:25 <GregorR> Nah, that probably won't work, come to think of it :P
21:32:27 <ehird> and just have it call gcc
21:33:52 <GregorR> Wait
21:33:58 <GregorR> How about just #if 0 #endif instead of /* */?
21:34:14 <ehird> GregorR: Great idea!
21:34:23 <ehird> But the shebang must be the first line of the file.
21:35:15 <GregorR> Oh, you don't want to be tail'ing that off? :P
21:35:26 <ehird> ahaaa! wait a second!!
21:35:33 <ehird> #define true \
21:35:33 <ehird> #!/bin/sh
21:35:33 <ehird> #if 0
21:35:36 <ehird> except the problem is
21:35:39 <ehird> i don't want to define anything
21:35:41 <ehird> solution: undef after that
21:35:51 <GregorR> Uh, plus the shebang line isn't the first line then?
21:35:58 <ehird> Ohh. Crap.
21:36:17 <ehird> GregorR: Don't see how to do this :(
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21:39:58 <ehird> GregorR: Any thoughts?
21:40:11 <ehird> basically, #!foo and #! foo are acceptable
21:42:19 <ehird> GregorR: :/
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21:43:09 <ehird> GregorR: I don't think there's any way to get cc to acecpt it
21:50:24 <ehird> GregorR: It's getting more and more advanced by the minute :p
21:50:29 <ehird> #if 0
21:50:29 <ehird> FILE=`mktemp -t _$(echo "$0" | tr -c [:alnum:] _).XXXXXXXXXX` || exit 1
21:50:29 <ehird> if gcc -Wall -xc "$0" -o "$FILE"; then "$FILE" $*; CODE=$?; else CODE=$?; fi
21:50:29 <ehird> rm -f $FILE; exit $CODE
21:50:29 <ehird> #endif
22:02:53 <ehird> Okay. GregorR, marshmallows: http://codepad.org/09A2RJCH A c-script that turns a c file into a c-script
22:03:47 <GregorR> I wonder what system the remote side runs to get that output.
22:04:13 <ehird> GregorR: it's described somewhere
22:04:21 <ehird> http://codepad.org/about
22:05:14 <ehird> GregorR: Here! http://www.hackerdashery.com/2008/03/scaling-at-2am-with-ec2.html
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22:05:37 <ehird> Basically, lots of Amazon C2 services which automatically rewipe themselves regularly
22:05:49 <ehird> & all programs under them run under heavy tracing & each in their seperate chroot jail
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