< 1207873046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: stillllll going < 1207874976 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207875189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Guess what's still going? < 1207875691 0 :wildhalcyon!n=chatzill@c-69-243-94-185.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207875715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: WELL, these logs have a lot to do with esoteric things < 1207875719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really programming languages < 1207875720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorr-w cleans his scottish claymore < 1207875720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feesh cleans his teeth < 1207875720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorr-w cleans his novelty-size 14-inch ribbed black dildo < 1207875720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waiit < 1207875720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme my dildo back bitch < 1207875722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregorr-w hides it somewhere and runs off awkwardly < 1207875724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how am i meant to clean my teeth now < 1207875785 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin', or evenin', or whatever portion of the timecube it currently is wherever you are. < 1207875909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: quater-past ninety < 1207875977 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. Its about 5pi/3 here. < 1207875998 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided to express all times in radians from now on. < 1207876026 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Engineers and mathematicians will understand what I'm saying. As for anyone else... screw 'em. < 1207876056 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207876097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: When did you first come in here? < 1207876116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't remember < 1207876121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Year? < 1207876127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember < 1207876243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Century? < 1207876596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why google only catches the occasional page in the tunes.org logs < 1207876812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You know how in YouTube, when you click pages and the comments for that page load without having to go to a new web page? That's Web 2.0" ~me, earlier today < 1207876812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1207876821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(paraphrased) < 1207877050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: cluelessness 2.0 < 1207877071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sometime after that (and after he left :( ), I looked up Web 2.0 < 1207877076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it doesn't consider 'empty' directories with no links particularly worthy < 1207877084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: web 2.0 is a vacant buzzword with no reason < 1207877092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you are describing 'Ajax' which is another buzzword < 1207877108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but amounts to a way to create an http request and add callbacks to it via javascript < 1207877112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then processing the result < 1207877115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know what I described, I just thought at the time that Web 2.0 is AJAX < 1207877125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1207877129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make the term even stupider < 1207877130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1207877305 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Havin' fun reading the logs? X-P < 1207877325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: No, feeding them into ROBOT9000. < 1207877337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All four years of them. < 1207877540 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has this channel really been around 4 years? < 1207877628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: longer < 1207877630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003, I think < 1207877633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logs started in 2004 < 1207877635 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1207877652 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find the announcement message in the esolang mailing list < 1207877654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:34] -ChanServ- Registered: 5 years 14 weeks 6 days (23h 3m 36s) ago < 1207877663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:34] -ChanServ- Contact: andreou < 1207877664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01:34] -ChanServ- Alternate: lament << ONLINE >> < 1207877671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think andreou last came in 2003. < 1207877672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1207877682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from my reeee-search < 1207877701 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wished I'd gotten involved more sooner, I guess < 1207877724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined here sometime in 2007. < 1207877738 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang was a nice list < 1207877747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Is it still alive? < 1207877755 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined around 2006, but I never really did much. I'm still not terribly active. < 1207877776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think so, there just haven't been any messages in years < 1207877780 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... not really < 1207877866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we should try and get comp.lang.esoteric < 1207877867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1207877928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess on Tuesday I'll tell him I was mistaken in my description of Web 2.0.. < 1207877937 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was 2002 < 1207877947 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2002-q4 < 1207877953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still feels guilty about it < 1207877967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then, freenode was already irc.freenode.net, but was still called OPN < 1207878025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes on an ant murdering spree < 1207878026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's EFNet < 1207878029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the announcement < 1207878035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, a different #esoteric < 1207878039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's people there... still talking < 1207878042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you actually read the messages... < 1207878042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we don't know of them < 1207878057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, not now. < 1207878072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you just check? :P < 1207878076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1207878077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe sometimes some people are there, but none right now. < 1207878079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. < 1207878087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hey you have ants too? < 1207878097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do actually read the messages < 1207878105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: following the guy's sig links i find http://psychanodia.blogspot.com/ < 1207878111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this something game-related... < 1207878131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, real ants :( < 1207878138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all over my desk! < 1207878139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you sick person :P < 1207878172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses a drinking glass and a piece of paper to catch them < 1207878203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ants help me code < 1207878205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are very proficient < 1207878223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what they love most is playing Zork < 1207878231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'you are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike' reminds them of home < 1207878250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries not to let them near the computer < 1207878254 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hated that game < 1207878313 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should get a tissue box and a garbage, to kill and dispose of ants < 1207878314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: How *DARE* you. < 1207878319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: Go XYZZY your PLUGH < 1207878368 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, it just wasn't my brand of humor. < 1207878390 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xyzzy and plugh wasn't really zork. < 1207878409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I know that. < 1207878415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even so, they are words related to the game. < 1207878496 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's "the". < 1207878521 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention rye. < 1207878524 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1207878549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil despicable grain species? < 1207878572 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, but I think it was a type of alcohol < 1207878573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a TC esolang with no syntax somehow. < 1207878575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how. < 1207878597 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define syntax, and it shall be done. < 1207878661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Taxes of Syn < 1207878689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: everything involving the world 'an' < 1207878691 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A token followed by one or more additional tokens. < 1207878762 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not much of a definition. < 1207878810 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, its brutal. < 1207878820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the order of tokens is syntax. so for a language to be totally syntax-free, sorting the characters of a program should not change its meaning >:) < 1207878861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically leaves you with 256 unary encoded values... < 1207878866 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1207878871 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tokens may be larger than a single character < 1207878880 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you could use integers < 1207878882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how about: sorting the tokens < 1207878888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where tokens are, oh, i don't know < 1207878893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe < 1207878893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say many non-whitespace < 1207878897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seperated by whitespace < 1207878926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about morphology then? you could imagine a polysynthetic PL where every program was a single word < 1207878988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1207879008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there certainly are already PLs where whitespace is insignificant everywhere. brainfuck for one < 1207879029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually i can't imagine such a PL < 1207879054 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that makes any sense at all < 1207879066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you defined "word" < 1207879092 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, but i mean if BF isn't it, then nothing is < 1207879105 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems silly to say that BF programs are "single words" < 1207879156 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would argue that they're not. < 1207879158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we seem to be splitting hairs < 1207879159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1207879173 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even glypho has word-like elements. < 1207879191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually, i suppose wierd is single-word < 1207879193 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1207879201 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-symbol, even < 1207880377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1207880448 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my new language design is coming along REALLLLLLLY slowly < 1207880513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wildhalcyon: eat it < 1207880514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a spoon < 1207880516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a fork < 1207880517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a spork < 1207880521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will co-operate < 1207880525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while being digested < 1207880546 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do need the language-design equivalent of prune juice < 1207880794 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just confuzzled I suppose < 1207881000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1207881123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1207882174 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207882181 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1207882256 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you here? < 1207882266 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1207882269 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1207882274 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1207882283 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a c2bf question for you < 1207882288 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, OK < 1207882291 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have those page scans ? < 1207882297 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, somewhere, just a sec. < 1207882299 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from when yopu were designing it < 1207882315 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf < 1207882321 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been researching GCC < 1207882337 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1207882414 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi calamari :-) < 1207882433 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: does C expect an infinite stack? < 1207882449 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not. < 1207882455 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi wildhalcyon < 1207882485 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, it has no provisions for running out of stack space. When that happens your program usually dies a painful death :P < 1207882500 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh ok < 1207882513 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack overflow.. not a good thing < 1207883220 0 :wildhalcyon!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1207886899 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: this brings up an interesting idea- is there any minimum stack depth required by, say, the ANSI C spec? < 1207889585 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO spec, insofar as I'm aware, does not even mandate a stack. :p < 1207889624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how else to implement functions is beyond me, though. (assuming real hardware. Mr. "Lambda Calculus" can just assume that functions work. :p)) < 1207890032 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-226-168.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1207892493 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yyyyup. < 1207894201 0 :olsner!n=salparot@79.136.60.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207894437 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1207894479 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207894987 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1207896601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1207898092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because of the ff*kyn especially made for fast interpreters on computers with low-granularity timers, so that T would give useful info. ;-) < 1207898193 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1207899238 0 :Iskr!n=i@host199-52-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1207900316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hah < 1207900799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1207900800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1207902145 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1207902230 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@122-57-226-168.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1207904006 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207904099 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1207905086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1207909982 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I hope your attitude's as positive as these test results!" < 1207911240 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/images/b/b8/Lazy_Bird.png <- it is still thar D: < 1207911357 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dot dot dot. < 1207911493 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911493 0 :tejeez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911495 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911495 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911495 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911497 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911497 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911497 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1207911556 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :Slereah!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-65-144.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje8.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-137.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :EgoBot!n=EgoBot@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.desktop.umr.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :tejeez!n=tejeez@dsl-lhtgw1-fe7adf00-87.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207911556 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@iruel.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207914432 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this seems okay as an Ackerman function? A = ^xy.(((iszero(car y))(xx)i)(((iszero car y) (succ cdr y)) (((iszero cdr y) (x ((cons pred car y) i)) (x ((cons pred car y) (x ((cons car y) pred cdr y)))) < 1207914448 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the function itself would be ``AA < 1207914462 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Parenthesis might be unmatched) < 1207915519 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pll.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/charity1/www/wofm/wofm2.html < 1207915520 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot < 1207915546 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're so west coast. < 1207916486 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-054-015.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1207916654 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pong, like. < 1207917312 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207918578 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, c by itself was proven non-tc, but is there a set of combinators that is tc when c is added, but not otherwise, i wonder < 1207921352 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1207921586 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207925245 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207929615 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207930280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1207931198 0 :olsner!n=salparot@79.136.60.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207931882 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1207932211 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207934739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: 1k # does nothing at k or jumps at k and doesn't move past # < 1207934748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but you never test which of those it is? < 1207934760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how could I test it? < 1207934769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because I'm wondering if I'm really doing the right thing at concurrent execution in regards to that < 1207934780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way of telling the difference < 1207934806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many ticks does: 2k a < 1207934807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take then? < 1207934815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k always takes one tick < 1207934818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what < 1207934833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that takes 3, no matter what. < 1207934838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm then why does standard say that k does not execute space < 1207934839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1207934843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that k behaviour, that is. < 1207934844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must mean zero ticks? < 1207934852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it mustn't < 1207934867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall pasting that long e-mail of mine and the developer of befunge98 about this stuff :-) < 1207934867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how does 2kz differ from 2k < 1207934876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how you implement 2k < 1207934889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2kz at least can be guaranteed to be equivalent to zz :-P < 1207934902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one z for the 2, one for the k) < 1207934937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas 2k t may spawn one or two threads depending on implementation, for instance < 1207934945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the specs are wonderfully confusing on this bit. < 1207934998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1207935045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. it says k should not execute space, so what should it execute instead < 1207935057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1207935083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1207935086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean: < 1207935089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) reflect < 1207935097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) reach past the marker and execute next instruction < 1207935101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c) do nothing < 1207935110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly other options, that's just off the top of my head. :-P < 1207935120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION interprets it as meaning that you ignore all spaces and take the next instruction < 1207935138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does CCBI do there? < 1207935147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sense of the Funge-98 spec is that the space character literally doesn't exist (except inside strings, where separate space characters don't exist) < 1207935148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do nothing < 1207935150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1207935169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intention seems to be that 1k # should be equivalent to 1k# < 1207935169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's a perfectly valid interpretation. < 1207935174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't be sure. < 1207935199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tried contacting Chris Pressey? < 1207935259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1207935273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not /that/ interested ;-) < 1207935274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realize his Funge-108 draft made that aspect of k even more confusing than before. heh < 1207935284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what FBBI does is it reaches past the space < 1207935290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it doesn't skip over the instruction after executing it < 1207935303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there is the question of ; too < 1207935307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1207935319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 1k # executes # at k, then 1k;;# should as well < 1207935347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, it says it does not execute ; < 1207935354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff like 1k;;# is a nice obfuscation :-P < 1207935361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't go into "search for next ; mode" < 1207935384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; isn't an instruction < 1207935390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1k;ab;# would execute a? < 1207935394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed it's a marker < 1207935397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it'd execute # < 1207935400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and jump in to execute a < 1207935403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by b. < 1207935404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1207935415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: call it Funge-:8 < 1207935418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then it finds the next instruction in Funge-space in the path of the IP (note that this cannot be a marker such as space or ;)" < 1207935428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly, it's a marker, not an instruction, so you don't need to execute it to do what it marks < 1207935431 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like space. < 1207935436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you interpret k that way. < 1207935436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 3.1's file manager, when 2000 came, used to date files as being in the year 19:0 < 1207935439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the name was the request of Chris Pressey < 1207935449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OK < 1207935452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, gah < 1207935459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do ccbi do on ;? < 1207935463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k; I mean < 1207935474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like k , nothing, I think. < 1207935480 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just skips over it. < 1207935496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so k;a;b;c executes a and c but not b? < 1207935505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that mean k;+ was equivalent to k+ if there were no other semicolons on that Lahey line? < 1207935509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that seems about right < 1207935521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um nfc < 1207935531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if no semicolons are ever generated on any Lahey lines intersecting with that semicolon. ;-) < 1207935536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well cfunge instead reflects on k; < 1207935538 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc. < 1207935554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whatever. like said, the spec is woefully unclear. < 1207935561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it's not executed, but what's done instead?! < 1207935567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: assume I'd said "at the time" at the end of my question, I normally assume that in statements about Befunge unless I specifically state otherwise < 1207935569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I need to email Pressey and ask what he meant < 1207935579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec cares too much about what should not happen and doesn't specify what should happen at all. :-P < 1207935588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it took a bit to think about < 1207935618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep so in the 108 draft I adapted the MUST/MUST NOT/SHOULD/SHOULD NOT/MAY thing from RFCs < 1207935631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that SHOULD or at least MAY help a bit ;) < 1207935634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever works < 1207935640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to leave any behaviour undefined? < 1207935657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'll try to avoid it < 1207935672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UB tends to be a useful thing to have in specs in the case where it's clear that an interp couldn't do anything sensible < 1207935684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway one thing I'm thinking about is the fingerprint/handprint system, it really is too likely with collisions < 1207935689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Underlambda spec I'm working on allows UB in some places because to mandate specific behaviour would make the language uncomputable < 1207935698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, some uri based system would be better < 1207935699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, needs an overhaul of some kind. < 1207935733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either java style: tc.catseye.HRTI < 1207935747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more like the way xml does it < 1207935750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the interp has to determine which Church numeral a particular function corresponds to; this is easy if it's known that the function is a Church numeral, but I allow UB in the case where it isn't because in general it's an uncomputable problem to determine whether two functions are equivalent) < 1207935759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1207935762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauna -> < 1207935764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/HRTI.html < 1207935787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm, are Finnish ppl sauna-fanatics or something? ;P < 1207935816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may need to be careful with XML-style < 1207935816 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is not a Church numeral, what does it do? < 1207935821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: UB < 1207935829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no way in general to tell if it's a Church numeral or not < 1207935829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1207935835 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep checking 4eva, or gives up after some time < 1207935837 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1207935844 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it can give up on checking. < 1207935845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why careful with them? < 1207935853 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I used with THE JUGGERNAUT. < 1207935855 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitch. < 1207935883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because much of the w3c's bandwidth is used up by messed-up XML parsing libraries that request the DTD from their servers on every single parse they do < 1207935904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the file would not be machine readable < 1207935911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they cached common DTDs like the one for HTML, they wouldn't have to use as much bandwidth < 1207935916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a page describing in a way that is readable by humans < 1207935984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1207936050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, though I actually thought about some automated system to generate skeletons. currently I got a crude shell script for it < 1207936061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be more or less cfunge specific < 1207936129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would contain something like: first name fingerprint name, second line "safe for sandbox" 1 or 0, third line short desc of fingerprint, 4th line, url for docs, the rest something like: < 1207936135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A add < 1207936142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B substract < 1207936157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it generates function names and fingerprint loading function < 1207936177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently you have to change function name manually and fill in the names in the loading routine < 1207936223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see what I mean? < 1207936231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1207936253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see tools/gen_fingerprint.sh for the current one < 1207936295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another use of this would be to autogenerate the list in manager.c < 1207936318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably autogenerate a file with just the array and then include that file < 1207936390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw when I run cfunge under valgrind the slow HRTI test takes about 20 times as long when concurrency support is *disabled* < 1207936398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't get what is going on there < 1207936409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be affected by concurrency at all < 1207936424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why slower when it is disabled < 1207936430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without valgrind: about same speed < 1207936442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that. makes no sense. to me < 1207936606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you got any idea about it? < 1207936616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm confused too < 1207936647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I can't get hold of the cfunge source, because the version of bzr in the Ubunutu 7.10 repositories is only 0.90, and I don't want to mess with newer repositories at the moment < 1207936930 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207937121 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.6.88.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207937148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1207937166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, out that they use a so outdated one < 1207937175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering they are the main developers of bzr < 1207937182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I noticed that too < 1207937210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really had very good experiences with Ubuntu bug reports < 1207937211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO bzr is one of the few good things that has come out of Ubuntu < 1207937213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1207937225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nowadays I just report directly to Debian, who normally answer within 24 hours < 1207937241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally to say that I screwed up the patch I sent them again... < 1207937255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1207937260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, every patch I've sent to Debian has been missing, or misformatted, or had the wrong sort of newlines, or something like that < 1207937265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's been my fault every time < 1207937279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe try applying it before you send it < 1207937281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, test it < 1207937291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the ironic thing is that it worked for me < 1207937298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes it did? < 1207937303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I had corrected the newlines in the file I was patching against and forgotten about it < 1207937307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe try on a copy of the clean debian sources? < 1207937312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see that it really works < 1207937320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I may have to do that in future < 1207937355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and line ending == LF for cfunge < 1207937369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line ending ought to == 10 for C-INTERCAL too < 1207937374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for a few DOS-specific files < 1207937376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well try dos2unix < 1207937383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a newline-fixing script that does that < 1207937385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a command line tool < 1207937385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1207937391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forgot to include the file in question in the script < 1207937404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a script that cleans up newlines, and trailing whitespaces < 1207937406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because it has to put the right sort of newlines on the right files) < 1207937414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also make sure the file just end in a *single* newline < 1207937425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get Emacs to higlight trailing whitespace for me, because occasionally it's relevant < 1207937430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least should but I noted that is kind of not working since I upgraded ed < 1207937436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a bash script that calls ed < 1207937450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use sed, which was designed for that purpose? < 1207937462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, being an ed-like language that can operate on streams < 1207937473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because sed -i is non-standard < 1207937477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and operate without manual intervention < 1207937481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a gnu extension < 1207937493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and ed can operate without manual intervention < 1207937506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -i is standard, and sed can be compiled trivially into Perl < 1207937515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the compiler distributes with Perl < 1207937535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? what compiler? < 1207937542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s2p < 1207937553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl is not standard < 1207937561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a default freebsd install doesn't have perl < 1207937566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does however have ed < 1207937587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my DJGPP installation has Perl but not ed < 1207937785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also making sed match on newlines is a PITA < 1207937793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: agreed < 1207937796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in across lines < 1207938678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1207938910 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207939434 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all < 1207939438 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Tritonio_ < 1207939453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo < 1207939498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go, sorry < 1207939500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1207939649 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207939979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihird < 1207940064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1207940235 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1207940245 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-238-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1207940548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I sent a mail to Chris now, http://rafb.net/p/JSiiZd29.html if you want to see it < 1207940558 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207940563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : have to go, sorry < 1207940563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"") < 1207940563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird (n=ehird@91.105.104.73) has joined #esoteric < 1207940577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1207940592 0 :RedDak!n=dak@87.6.88.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207940603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you missied him with two minutes and 29 seconds < 1207940629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed* < 1207941117 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1207941118 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ChordParser> parse parseChord "" "Am7" < 1207941119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right (RootedChord A (fromList [0,4,7,9])) < 1207941119 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ChordParser> parse parseChord "" "C6" < 1207941120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right (RootedChord C (fromList [0,4,7,9])) < 1207941133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1207941160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1207941195 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing chords! < 1207941198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, What would k do in fingerprint instructions that do a "jump right away", like those from SUBR < 1207941213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, yeah but I can't parse the result < 1207941220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "jump right away"? < 1207941242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the root notes are A and C and the pitches are exactly the same (as it happens) < 1207941246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well say SUBR's "return from subroutine", what would happen if k iterates over it < 1207941258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or what if k iterates on go to subroutine < 1207941265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just what you'd expect < 1207941270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in the latter case it could make sense to execute it once < 1207941272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it pops k times instead of once < 1207941273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1207941280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1207941855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am backkkk < 1207941882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: data Either a b = Left a | Right b < 1207941890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common idiom: 'Left error', 'Right result' < 1207941893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in right, correct < 1207942141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1207942171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well I can play it on the piano but I can't parse your output :P < 1207942202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know if the chords have differen't names in English < 1207942263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, could it parse say C/F < 1207942285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or F#7 < 1207942563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet C/F but i'm working on it < 1207942617 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other alterations (eg "C7-9#11/Bb") < 1207942953 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207943761 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207943967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: so you like haskell again ;) < 1207944981 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207946100 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207946724 0 :oklopol!i=oko@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffc2c100-82.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207948352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1207948424 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207948433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okyol. < 1207948484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerly? < 1207948544 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1207948612 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i always like haskell! < 1207948615 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i just think it sucks. < 1207948664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okoko. oko, okoko. oko! < 1207948687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1207948688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1207948689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1207948690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1207948691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1207948692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1207948692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1207948692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1207948696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me < 1207948697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okokokokokoko < 1207948698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kokoko < 1207948713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: okoko. < 1207948729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKO?!?!?! okoko. < 1207948761 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... < 1207948769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did robot9000 ever finish? < 1207948814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I killed it because I had to go. < 1207948819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was 3am. < 1207949100 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207949100 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``````````````okokokokokokoko converts to ``o`ko :o < 1207949178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuz o? < 1207949226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1207949252 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o is `si < 1207949376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know, so is your mother < 1207949868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OKO < 1207950047 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207950106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds oko utterances surprisingly short for having such low entropy per character :D < 1207950163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: okokoko < 1207950210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION regrettably isn't fluent < 1207950228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OKOKO?! oko... okoko okokoko. okoko! < 1207950503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko... < 1207950537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1207951020 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, chords are hard to parse < 1207951133 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1207951275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what exactly are ya parsing? < 1207951683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chords < 1207951761 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207951881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming from a .wav < 1207951895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: string < 1207952360 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, things like C7-9#11/Bb < 1207952376 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure if that example is even correct) < 1207952386 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like C7b9#11/Bb < 1207952558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so chord names < 1207952559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1207952574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot there actually was a standard representation < 1207952575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly me < 1207952602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(needless to say i don't like it, i guess) < 1207952634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, i just dislike it a little, it isn't entirely rotten < 1207952837 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good < 1207952872 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not entirely general < 1207952894 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(classical doesn't use it since it's not specific enough about inversions) < 1207952906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no music-related notation is entirely general < 1207953001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for PCM :P < 1207953037 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCM does not notate music < 1207953045 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it notates sound :) < 1207953096 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying "the alphabet doesn't notate words, it notates sounds" < 1207953229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows of another general music-related notation. < 1207953231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAC. < 1207953241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be even more insane, Base-64 FLAC. < 1207953265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to shake the hand of anyone who can read that < 1207953350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :D < 1207953359 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: the alphabet does notate words. But it does not notate novels. < 1207953856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the same notion, music notation notates notes, but not music. < 1207953972 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point! < 1207953998 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the alphabet notates words, which notate novels. < 1207954012 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music notation notates notes, which notate music < 1207954039 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE < 1207954042 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you don't need the alphabet to notate novels - for example, you can read a novel aloud < 1207954057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case the novel is still notated by words, but now the words are notated by sounds < 1207954058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: So, a novel is notated in words. < 1207954063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i said. < 1207954066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are multiple notations *for* words. < 1207954070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i said. < 1207954072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I was typing it before you hit enter. < 1207954074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1207954089 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And PCM notates sounds which notate music BIACH < 1207954105 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds don't notate music < 1207954109 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can. < 1207954128 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay. < 1207954138 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same way that words can notate novels, or hamster power amalgamation introspective for. < 1207954140 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1207954141 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather say music notates sounds :) < 1207954151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, sounds can notate notes which can notate music. ;) < 1207954170 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not really, sounds don't notate notes < 1207954185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell that to someone with perfect pitch. < 1207954186 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a sound, it takes human intelligence to extract "notes" from it, and even then not precisely < 1207954190 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hardly "notation" < 1207954211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a sound, it takes human intelligence to extract 'words' from it, and even then not precisely. < 1207954216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hardly "notation". < 1207954217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1207954261 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least most people who speak the language are capable of hearing all the words < 1207954269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try hearing all the notes in a symphony < 1207954277 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't do it, and you probably can't either < 1207954300 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers can sort of do speech recognition < 1207954310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not fair. < 1207954310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we shall have to clone Mozart for that < 1207954312 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're far from being able to write down music < 1207954323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A symphony is like having several dozen people talking at the same time. < 1207954327 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sure < 1207954328 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1207954333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computers can't do speech recognition in that environment, either. < 1207954344 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you notate the same music on a page, it's very simple < 1207954388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a piece of music with just a melody, and no harmony, it's much easier to write the notes. Notes have well-defined pitches. ;) < 1207954411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notes don't have well-defined pitches - consider bends, slides, vibrato < 1207954423 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very easy to notate on paper, very hard to get back the note from the sound < 1207954441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The note itself has well-defined pitches. Those are more than just notes being notated there. ;) < 1207954443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong vibrato on violin can span more than a semitone < 1207954452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one note, or several notes? < 1207954466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a matter of notation. < 1207954478 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take an arbitrary word. What are the phonemes in there? < 1207954480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1207954491 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly a matter of notation < 1207954496 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use notes to notate it < 1207954507 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound is what we're notating, ultimately < 1207954511 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :music is notation for sound < 1207954516 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207954520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's imperfect notation. < 1207954522 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not the other way around) < 1207954569 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1207954569 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would one write down, say, me being *exactly* 1 Hz off from a note when singing? (not that I can do that (intentionally) :p) < 1207954598 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you use appropriate notation < 1207954605 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207954614 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in common practice period music, you being 1 hz off is not important or interesting < 1207954619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't have ways to notate that < 1207954665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one could also argue that *the alphabet* is a notation for sounds. < 1207954689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an obviously imperfect one; most human writing systems don't include pitches in the written language) < 1207954716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the alphabet is or isn't a notation for sounds depends on the language < 1207954732 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it's a notation for _phonemes_ < 1207954734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume a spoken language. < 1207954740 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are a notation for sound < 1207954753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all human writing systems are a notation for phonemes. < 1207954778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, anyways, that's not the point. < 1207954792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not sure what the point *is*. < 1207954812 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which human writing systems are not a notation for phonemes? < 1207954837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese, Japanese kanji. . . < 1207954875 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each chinese character notates one phoneme < 1207954892 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*morph*eme < 1207954892 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, one syllable, several phonemes < 1207954906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese kanji have multiple readings. < 1207954914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe not even that) < 1207954929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doo pe dooooo < 1207954935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even english has homonyms < 1207954936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sure, but that's not really a problem - english "wind" has several readings too < 1207954952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they were considered inferior to heteronyms a while back though < 1207954982 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese kanji are used for meaning, not reading (usually). < 1207955022 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's true of english words as well. < 1207955077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands lament his Japanese homework < 1207955092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207955109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me that that list of 5 *completely* different readings imply that each character notates one syllable. < 1207955163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a hint: unless you're dealing with man'yougana, they don't.) < 1207955303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, Japanese deals in mora, not syllables, anyways) < 1207955688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'And with that, the channel died.' < 1207955728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1207956480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all irc channels should have a bot which pipes fortune(1) to the channel if it dies for too long < 1207956480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1207956593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, `fortune -a` < 1207956611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, -o < 1207956911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Patch to Egobot? < 1207956976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Thinkgeek f***'d up the T-shirt! < 1207956983 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1207956987 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Thinkgeek/Cafepress/ >_O < 1207956989 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:> < 1207956999 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say it ain't so, gregor! < 1207957003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could do that if GregorR would put it up <.< < 1207957028 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dood, EgoBot is F/OSS. < 1207957043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1207957050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't want to run an EgoBot clone. < 1207957053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the ! would clash. < 1207957055 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so, *how* is the shirt fucked up? < 1207957060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having it duplicate everything is pointless. < 1207957068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd only patch it if GregorR would put it up. < 1207957072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: A bit tough to explain, I'll send you a photo once I send it to CafePress. < 1207957087 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1207957123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if EgoBot is ever rewritten < 1207957125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be called < 1207957128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGOR < 1207957138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot Generation O Replacement < 1207957142 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207957224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write the patch and hand it to Gregor. < 1207957232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I like that name. < 1207957354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh alright, I will. < 1207957361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the file archives, right? < 1207957576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1207957603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1207957668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1207957681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I don't know the C function to get the current unix timestamp. < 1207957707 0 :Parma-Quendion!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Quendus < 1207957722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1207957726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time_t is a numeric < 1207957740 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Email addy (to send the picture to)? < 1207957944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically a signed int. < 1207957949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1207957965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mm. And unfortunately, I am going to have to use pthreads to do this in a sane way. < 1207957977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one global. But the code should stay clean. < 1207958016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't THINK C++ has threads in its stdlib. < 1207958235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1207958241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will count privmsg's to the bot as messages. < 1207958247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think that'll really be a problem. < 1207958278 0 :Zappy!n=zappy@f6.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1207958300 0 :Zappy!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1207958358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1207958363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: EgoBot question.. < 1207958373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use its daemon mechanism to spawn a long-running program, right? < 1207958381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And its stdout will be piped to the channel