00:17:26 lament: stillllll going 00:49:36 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:53:09 lament: Guess what's still going? 01:01:31 -!- wildhalcyon has joined. 01:01:55 lament: WELL, these logs have a lot to do with esoteric things 01:01:59 but not really programming languages 01:02:00 gregorr-w cleans his scottish claymore 01:02:00 feesh cleans his teeth 01:02:00 gregorr-w cleans his novelty-size 14-inch ribbed black dildo 01:02:00 waiit 01:02:00 gimme my dildo back bitch 01:02:02 gregorr-w hides it somewhere and runs off awkwardly 01:02:04 how am i meant to clean my teeth now 01:03:05 mornin', or evenin', or whatever portion of the timecube it currently is wherever you are. 01:05:09 wildhalcyon: quater-past ninety 01:06:17 cool. Its about 5pi/3 here. 01:06:38 I've decided to express all times in radians from now on. 01:07:06 Engineers and mathematicians will understand what I'm saying. As for anyone else... screw 'em. 01:07:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:08:17 Sgeo: When did you first come in here? 01:08:36 ehird, I don't remember 01:08:41 Sgeo: Year? 01:08:47 * Sgeo doesn't remember 01:10:43 Century? 01:16:36 * oerjan wonders why google only catches the occasional page in the tunes.org logs 01:20:12 "You know how in YouTube, when you click pages and the comments for that page load without having to go to a new web page? That's Web 2.0" ~me, earlier today 01:20:12 :( 01:20:21 (paraphrased) 01:24:10 Sgeo: cluelessness 2.0 01:24:31 ehird, sometime after that (and after he left :( ), I looked up Web 2.0 01:24:36 oerjan: it doesn't consider 'empty' directories with no links particularly worthy 01:24:44 Sgeo: web 2.0 is a vacant buzzword with no reason 01:24:52 Sgeo: you are describing 'Ajax' which is another buzzword 01:25:08 but amounts to a way to create an http request and add callbacks to it via javascript 01:25:12 then processing the result 01:25:15 ehird, I know what I described, I just thought at the time that Web 2.0 is AJAX 01:25:25 no 01:25:29 that would make the term even stupider 01:25:30 :D 01:28:25 ehird: Havin' fun reading the logs? X-P 01:28:45 GregorR: No, feeding them into ROBOT9000. 01:28:57 All four years of them. 01:32:20 has this channel really been around 4 years? 01:33:48 wildhalcyon: longer 01:33:50 2003, I think 01:33:53 but logs started in 2004 01:33:55 wow 01:34:12 you can find the announcement message in the esolang mailing list 01:34:14 [01:34] -ChanServ- Registered: 5 years 14 weeks 6 days (23h 3m 36s) ago 01:34:23 [01:34] -ChanServ- Contact: andreou 01:34:24 [01:34] -ChanServ- Alternate: lament << ONLINE >> 01:34:31 I think andreou last came in 2003. 01:34:32 :p 01:34:42 from my reeee-search 01:35:01 wished I'd gotten involved more sooner, I guess 01:35:24 I joined here sometime in 2007. 01:35:38 esolang was a nice list 01:35:47 lament: Is it still alive? 01:35:55 I joined around 2006, but I never really did much. I'm still not terribly active. 01:36:16 ehird: i think so, there just haven't been any messages in years 01:36:20 so... not really 01:37:46 lament: we should try and get comp.lang.esoteric 01:37:47 :D 01:38:48 I guess on Tuesday I'll tell him I was mistaken in my description of Web 2.0.. 01:38:57 so it was 2002 01:39:07 http://esoteric.sange.fi/archive/2002-q4 01:39:13 * Sgeo still feels guilty about it 01:39:27 back then, freenode was already irc.freenode.net, but was still called OPN 01:40:25 * Sgeo goes on an ant murdering spree 01:40:26 lament: that's EFNet 01:40:29 look at the announcement 01:40:35 ergo, a different #esoteric 01:40:39 maybe there's people there... still talking 01:40:42 if you actually read the messages... 01:40:42 and we don't know of them 01:40:57 ehird, no, not now. 01:41:12 Sgeo: did you just check? :P 01:41:16 uhh 01:41:17 Maybe sometimes some people are there, but none right now. 01:41:19 ehird, yes. 01:41:27 Sgeo: hey you have ants too? 01:41:37 ehird: do actually read the messages 01:41:45 lament: following the guy's sig links i find http://psychanodia.blogspot.com/ 01:41:51 or is this something game-related... 01:42:11 oerjan, real ants :( 01:42:18 They're all over my desk! 01:42:19 Sgeo: you sick person :P 01:42:52 * oerjan uses a drinking glass and a piece of paper to catch them 01:43:23 my ants help me code 01:43:25 they are very proficient 01:43:43 but what they love most is playing Zork 01:43:51 'you are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike' reminds them of home 01:44:10 * oerjan tries not to let them near the computer 01:44:14 I hated that game 01:45:13 * Sgeo should get a tissue box and a garbage, to kill and dispose of ants 01:45:14 wildhalcyon: How *DARE* you. 01:45:19 wildhalcyon: Go XYZZY your PLUGH 01:46:08 Sorry, it just wasn't my brand of humor. 01:46:30 xyzzy and plugh wasn't really zork. 01:46:49 lament: I know that. 01:46:55 Even so, they are words related to the game. 01:48:16 so's "the". 01:48:41 not to mention rye. 01:48:44 * wildhalcyon shudders 01:49:09 evil despicable grain species? 01:49:32 perhaps, but I think it was a type of alcohol 01:49:33 There should be a TC esolang with no syntax somehow. 01:49:35 I don't know how. 01:49:57 define syntax, and it shall be done. 01:51:01 The Taxes of Syn 01:51:29 lament: everything involving the world 'an' 01:51:31 A token followed by one or more additional tokens. 01:52:42 that's not much of a definition. 01:53:30 I know, its brutal. 01:53:40 well the order of tokens is syntax. so for a language to be totally syntax-free, sorting the characters of a program should not change its meaning >:) 01:54:21 which basically leaves you with 256 unary encoded values... 01:54:26 Not necessarily. 01:54:31 Tokens may be larger than a single character 01:54:40 for instance, you could use integers 01:54:42 oerjan: how about: sorting the tokens 01:54:48 where tokens are, oh, i don't know 01:54:53 ok maybe 01:54:53 let's say many non-whitespace 01:54:57 seperated by whitespace 01:55:26 what about morphology then? you could imagine a polysynthetic PL where every program was a single word 01:56:28 oerjan: no 01:56:48 now there certainly are already PLs where whitespace is insignificant everywhere. brainfuck for one 01:57:09 oerjan: actually i can't imagine such a PL 01:57:34 i don't think that makes any sense at all 01:57:46 depends how you defined "word" 01:58:12 certainly, but i mean if BF isn't it, then nothing is 01:58:25 and it seems silly to say that BF programs are "single words" 01:59:16 I would argue that they're not. 01:59:18 we seem to be splitting hairs 01:59:19 :) 01:59:33 Even glypho has word-like elements. 01:59:51 well, actually, i suppose wierd is single-word 01:59:53 :) 02:00:01 single-symbol, even 02:19:37 a 02:20:48 ugh, my new language design is coming along REALLLLLLLY slowly 02:21:53 wildhalcyon: eat it 02:21:54 with a spoon 02:21:56 and a fork 02:21:57 and a spork 02:22:01 then it will co-operate 02:22:05 while being digested 02:22:26 I do need the language-design equivalent of prune juice 02:26:34 I'm just confuzzled I suppose 02:30:00 -!- ehird has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 02:32:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 02:49:34 -!- calamari has joined. 02:49:41 hi 02:50:56 GregorR: you here? 02:51:06 Yuh 02:51:09 cool 02:51:14 >_> 02:51:23 I have a c2bf question for you 02:51:28 Heh, OK 02:51:31 you still have those page scans ? 02:51:37 Sure, somewhere, just a sec. 02:51:39 from when yopu were designing it 02:51:55 http://www.codu.org/c2bf.pdf 02:52:01 been researching GCC 02:52:17 thanks 02:53:34 hi calamari :-) 02:53:53 GregorR: does C expect an infinite stack? 02:54:09 No, of course not. 02:54:15 hi wildhalcyon 02:54:45 That being said, it has no provisions for running out of stack space. When that happens your program usually dies a painful death :P 02:55:00 ahh ok 02:55:13 stack overflow.. not a good thing 03:07:00 -!- wildhalcyon has left (?). 04:08:19 GregorR: this brings up an interesting idea- is there any minimum stack depth required by, say, the ANSI C spec? 04:53:05 The ISO spec, insofar as I'm aware, does not even mandate a stack. :p 04:53:44 (how else to implement functions is beyond me, though. (assuming real hardware. Mr. "Lambda Calculus" can just assume that functions work. :p)) 05:00:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:41:33 Yyyyup. 06:10:01 -!- olsner has joined. 06:13:57 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:14:39 -!- Judofyr has joined. 06:23:07 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 06:50:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:14:52 AnMaster: yes, because of the ff*kyn especially made for fast interpreters on computers with low-granularity timers, so that T would give useful info. ;-) 07:16:33 -!- Judofyr has quit. 07:33:58 -!- Iskr has joined. 07:51:56 Deewiant, hah 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:22:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has left (?). 08:23:50 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:53:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:54:59 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:11:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 10:33:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I hope your attitude's as positive as these test results!"). 10:54:00 http://esolangs.org/w/images/b/b8/Lazy_Bird.png <- it is still thar D: 10:55:57 Dot dot dot. 10:58:13 -!- lament has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:13 -!- tejeez has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:15 -!- Deewiant has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:15 -!- fizzie has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:15 -!- Slereah has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:15 -!- sebbu has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:15 -!- EgoBot has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:17 -!- oklofok has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:17 -!- cmeme has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:17 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:58:17 -!- cherez has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 10:59:16 -!- oklofok has joined. 10:59:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:59:16 -!- cmeme has joined. 10:59:16 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 10:59:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:59:16 -!- EgoBot has joined. 10:59:16 -!- cherez has joined. 10:59:16 -!- fizzie has joined. 10:59:16 -!- lament has joined. 10:59:16 -!- tejeez has joined. 10:59:16 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:47:12 Does this seems okay as an Ackerman function? A = ^xy.(((iszero(car y))(xx)i)(((iszero car y) (succ cdr y)) (((iszero cdr y) (x ((cons pred car y) i)) (x ((cons pred car y) (x ((cons car y) pred cdr y)))) 11:47:28 And the function itself would be ``AA 11:47:42 (Parenthesis might be unmatched) 12:05:19 http://pll.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/charity1/www/wofm/wofm2.html 12:05:20 wot 12:05:46 We're so west coast. 12:21:26 -!- jix has joined. 12:24:14 ehird: pong, like. 12:35:12 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:56:18 hmm, c by itself was proven non-tc, but is there a set of combinators that is tc when c is added, but not otherwise, i wonder 13:42:32 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:46:26 -!- timotiis has joined. 14:47:25 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:00:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:11:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:26:38 -!- olsner has joined. 16:38:02 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 16:43:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:25:39 UNDEF: 1k # does nothing at k or jumps at k and doesn't move past # 17:25:48 Deewiant, but you never test which of those it is? 17:26:00 AnMaster: how could I test it? 17:26:09 Deewiant, because I'm wondering if I'm really doing the right thing at concurrent execution in regards to that 17:26:20 there's no way of telling the difference 17:26:46 how many ticks does: 2k a 17:26:47 take then? 17:26:55 k always takes one tick 17:26:58 no matter what 17:27:13 so that takes 3, no matter what. 17:27:18 hm then why does standard say that k does not execute space 17:27:19 ever 17:27:23 assuming that k behaviour, that is. 17:27:24 that must mean zero ticks? 17:27:32 no it mustn't 17:27:47 I recall pasting that long e-mail of mine and the developer of befunge98 about this stuff :-) 17:27:47 then how does 2kz differ from 2k 17:27:56 depends on how you implement 2k 17:28:09 2kz at least can be guaranteed to be equivalent to zz :-P 17:28:22 (one z for the 2, one for the k) 17:28:57 whereas 2k t may spawn one or two threads depending on implementation, for instance 17:29:05 because the specs are wonderfully confusing on this bit. 17:29:58 hm 17:30:45 well. it says k should not execute space, so what should it execute instead 17:30:57 hm 17:31:23 exactly. 17:31:26 does that mean: 17:31:29 a) reflect 17:31:37 b) reach past the marker and execute next instruction 17:31:41 c) do nothing 17:31:50 possibly other options, that's just off the top of my head. :-P 17:32:00 * ais523 interprets it as meaning that you ignore all spaces and take the next instruction 17:32:18 Deewiant, what does CCBI do there? 17:32:27 my sense of the Funge-98 spec is that the space character literally doesn't exist (except inside strings, where separate space characters don't exist) 17:32:28 do nothing 17:32:30 hm 17:32:49 the intention seems to be that 1k # should be equivalent to 1k# 17:32:49 ais523: yes, that's a perfectly valid interpretation. 17:32:54 but I can't be sure. 17:33:19 Deewiant, tried contacting Chris Pressey? 17:34:19 no 17:34:33 I'm not /that/ interested ;-) 17:34:34 * AnMaster realize his Funge-108 draft made that aspect of k even more confusing than before. heh 17:34:44 I think what FBBI does is it reaches past the space 17:34:50 but then it doesn't skip over the instruction after executing it 17:35:03 and then there is the question of ; too 17:35:07 yep 17:35:19 if 1k # executes # at k, then 1k;;# should as well 17:35:47 hm, it says it does not execute ; 17:35:54 and stuff like 1k;;# is a nice obfuscation :-P 17:36:01 so it can't go into "search for next ; mode" 17:36:24 ; isn't an instruction 17:36:30 so 1k;ab;# would execute a? 17:36:34 Deewiant, indeed it's a marker 17:36:37 no, it'd execute # 17:36:40 and jump in to execute a 17:36:43 followed by b. 17:36:44 etc. 17:36:55 AnMaster: call it Funge-:8 17:36:58 "Then it finds the next instruction in Funge-space in the path of the IP (note that this cannot be a marker such as space or ;)" 17:37:08 AnMaster: exactly, it's a marker, not an instruction, so you don't need to execute it to do what it marks 17:37:11 just like space. 17:37:16 assuming you interpret k that way. 17:37:16 Windows 3.1's file manager, when 2000 came, used to date files as being in the year 19:0 17:37:19 ais523, the name was the request of Chris Pressey 17:37:29 AnMaster: OK 17:37:32 Deewiant, gah 17:37:39 Deewiant, what do ccbi do on ;? 17:37:43 k; I mean 17:37:54 like k , nothing, I think. 17:38:00 it just skips over it. 17:38:16 so k;a;b;c executes a and c but not b? 17:38:25 would that mean k;+ was equivalent to k+ if there were no other semicolons on that Lahey line? 17:38:29 yes, that seems about right 17:38:41 ais523, um nfc 17:38:51 and if no semicolons are ever generated on any Lahey lines intersecting with that semicolon. ;-) 17:38:56 Deewiant, well cfunge instead reflects on k; 17:38:58 etc. etc. 17:39:14 AnMaster: whatever. like said, the spec is woefully unclear. 17:39:21 okay, it's not executed, but what's done instead?! 17:39:27 AnMaster: assume I'd said "at the time" at the end of my question, I normally assume that in statements about Befunge unless I specifically state otherwise 17:39:29 well I need to email Pressey and ask what he meant 17:39:39 the spec cares too much about what should not happen and doesn't specify what should happen at all. :-P 17:39:48 ais523, well it took a bit to think about 17:40:18 Deewiant, yep so in the 108 draft I adapted the MUST/MUST NOT/SHOULD/SHOULD NOT/MAY thing from RFCs 17:40:31 that SHOULD or at least MAY help a bit ;) 17:40:34 whatever works 17:40:40 are you going to leave any behaviour undefined? 17:40:57 Deewiant, I'll try to avoid it 17:41:12 UB tends to be a useful thing to have in specs in the case where it's clear that an interp couldn't do anything sensible 17:41:24 Deewiant, anyway one thing I'm thinking about is the fingerprint/handprint system, it really is too likely with collisions 17:41:29 the Underlambda spec I'm working on allows UB in some places because to mandate specific behaviour would make the language uncomputable 17:41:38 Deewiant, some uri based system would be better 17:41:39 AnMaster: yep, needs an overhaul of some kind. 17:42:13 either java style: tc.catseye.HRTI 17:42:27 or more like the way xml does it 17:42:30 (the interp has to determine which Church numeral a particular function corresponds to; this is easy if it's known that the function is a Church numeral, but I allow UB in the case where it isn't because in general it's an uncomputable problem to determine whether two functions are equivalent) 17:42:39 17:42:42 sauna -> 17:42:44 so http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/HRTI.html 17:43:07 Deewiant, hm, are Finnish ppl sauna-fanatics or something? ;P 17:43:36 you may need to be careful with XML-style 17:43:36 If it is not a Church numeral, what does it do? 17:43:41 Slereah: UB 17:43:49 because there's no way in general to tell if it's a Church numeral or not 17:43:49 ais523, hm? 17:43:55 Keep checking 4eva, or gives up after some time 17:43:57 I know. 17:44:04 But it can give up on checking. 17:44:05 ais523, why careful with them? 17:44:13 That's what I used with THE JUGGERNAUT. 17:44:15 Bitch. 17:44:43 AnMaster: because much of the w3c's bandwidth is used up by messed-up XML parsing libraries that request the DTD from their servers on every single parse they do 17:45:04 ais523, well the file would not be machine readable 17:45:11 if they cached common DTDs like the one for HTML, they wouldn't have to use as much bandwidth 17:45:16 just a page describing in a way that is readable by humans 17:46:24 OK 17:47:30 ais523, though I actually thought about some automated system to generate skeletons. currently I got a crude shell script for it 17:47:41 but that would be more or less cfunge specific 17:48:49 it would contain something like: first name fingerprint name, second line "safe for sandbox" 1 or 0, third line short desc of fingerprint, 4th line, url for docs, the rest something like: 17:48:55 A add 17:49:02 B substract 17:49:17 and then it generates function names and fingerprint loading function 17:49:37 currently you have to change function name manually and fill in the names in the loading routine 17:50:23 ais523, see what I mean? 17:50:31 more or less 17:50:53 see tools/gen_fingerprint.sh for the current one 17:51:35 another use of this would be to autogenerate the list in manager.c 17:51:58 probably autogenerate a file with just the array and then include that file 17:53:10 Deewiant, btw when I run cfunge under valgrind the slow HRTI test takes about 20 times as long when concurrency support is *disabled* 17:53:18 I just don't get what is going on there 17:53:29 it shouldn't be affected by concurrency at all 17:53:44 and why slower when it is disabled 17:53:50 without valgrind: about same speed 17:54:02 and that. makes no sense. to me 17:56:46 ais523, you got any idea about it? 17:56:56 no, I'm confused too 17:57:27 BTW, I can't get hold of the cfunge source, because the version of bzr in the Ubunutu 7.10 repositories is only 0.90, and I don't want to mess with newer repositories at the moment 18:02:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:05:21 -!- RedDak has joined. 18:05:48 ais523, ouch 18:06:06 ais523, out that they use a so outdated one 18:06:15 considering they are the main developers of bzr 18:06:22 yes, I noticed that too 18:06:50 I haven't really had very good experiences with Ubuntu bug reports 18:06:51 IMO bzr is one of the few good things that has come out of Ubuntu 18:06:53 * AnMaster runs 18:07:05 so nowadays I just report directly to Debian, who normally answer within 24 hours 18:07:21 normally to say that I screwed up the patch I sent them again... 18:07:35 hah 18:07:40 for some reason, every patch I've sent to Debian has been missing, or misformatted, or had the wrong sort of newlines, or something like that 18:07:45 and it's been my fault every time 18:07:59 ais523, maybe try applying it before you send it 18:08:01 ie, test it 18:08:11 AnMaster: the ironic thing is that it worked for me 18:08:18 how comes it did? 18:08:23 because I had corrected the newlines in the file I was patching against and forgotten about it 18:08:27 ais523, maybe try on a copy of the clean debian sources? 18:08:32 to see that it really works 18:08:40 AnMaster: I may have to do that in future 18:09:15 ais523, oh and line ending == LF for cfunge 18:09:29 line ending ought to == 10 for C-INTERCAL too 18:09:34 except for a few DOS-specific files 18:09:36 well try dos2unix 18:09:43 I have a newline-fixing script that does that 18:09:45 a command line tool 18:09:45 or 18:09:51 but forgot to include the file in question in the script 18:10:04 I got a script that cleans up newlines, and trailing whitespaces 18:10:06 (because it has to put the right sort of newlines on the right files) 18:10:14 it also make sure the file just end in a *single* newline 18:10:25 I get Emacs to higlight trailing whitespace for me, because occasionally it's relevant 18:10:30 or at least should but I noted that is kind of not working since I upgraded ed 18:10:36 it is a bash script that calls ed 18:10:50 why not use sed, which was designed for that purpose? 18:11:02 as in, being an ed-like language that can operate on streams 18:11:13 ais523, because sed -i is non-standard 18:11:17 and operate without manual intervention 18:11:21 it's a gnu extension 18:11:33 ais523, and ed can operate without manual intervention 18:11:46 perl -i is standard, and sed can be compiled trivially into Perl 18:11:55 in fact, the compiler distributes with Perl 18:12:15 eh? what compiler? 18:12:22 s2p 18:12:33 well perl is not standard 18:12:41 a default freebsd install doesn't have perl 18:12:46 it does however have ed 18:13:07 my DJGPP installation has Perl but not ed 18:16:25 ais523, also making sed match on newlines is a PITA 18:16:33 AnMaster: agreed 18:16:36 as in across lines 18:31:18 bbl food 18:35:10 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 18:43:54 Hi all 18:43:58 hi Tritonio_ 18:44:13 hi Sgeo 18:44:58 have to go, sorry 18:45:00 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 18:47:29 -!- ehird has joined. 18:52:59 hihird 18:54:24 brb 18:57:15 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:57:25 -!- jix has joined. 19:02:28 Deewiant, I sent a mail to Chris now, http://rafb.net/p/JSiiZd29.html if you want to see it 19:02:38 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:02:43 have to go, sorry 19:02:43 * ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"") 19:02:43 * ehird (n=ehird@91.105.104.73) has joined #esoteric 19:02:57 heh 19:03:12 -!- RedDak has joined. 19:03:23 ehird, you missied him with two minutes and 29 seconds 19:03:49 missed* 19:11:57 hee 19:11:58 *ChordParser> parse parseChord "" "Am7" 19:11:59 Right (RootedChord A (fromList [0,4,7,9])) 19:11:59 *ChordParser> parse parseChord "" "C6" 19:12:00 Right (RootedChord C (fromList [0,4,7,9])) 19:12:13 \o/ 19:12:40 hm? 19:13:15 parsing chords! 19:13:18 Deewiant, What would k do in fingerprint instructions that do a "jump right away", like those from SUBR 19:13:33 lament, yeah but I can't parse the result 19:13:40 AnMaster: "jump right away"? 19:14:02 AnMaster: the root notes are A and C and the pitches are exactly the same (as it happens) 19:14:06 Deewiant, well say SUBR's "return from subroutine", what would happen if k iterates over it 19:14:18 Deewiant, or what if k iterates on go to subroutine 19:14:25 just what you'd expect 19:14:30 Deewiant, in the latter case it could make sense to execute it once 19:14:32 i.e. it pops k times instead of once 19:14:33 or whatever 19:14:40 hm true 19:24:15 I am backkkk 19:24:42 AnMaster: data Either a b = Left a | Right b 19:24:50 common idiom: 'Left error', 'Right result' 19:24:53 as in right, correct 19:29:01 ehird, hm? 19:29:31 lament, well I can play it on the piano but I can't parse your output :P 19:30:02 also I don't know if the chords have differen't names in English 19:31:03 lament, could it parse say C/F 19:31:25 or F#7 19:36:03 not yet C/F but i'm working on it 19:36:57 and other alterations (eg "C7-9#11/Bb") 19:42:33 -!- timotiis_ has joined. 19:56:01 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:59:27 lament: so you like haskell again ;) 20:16:21 -!- Corun has joined. 20:35:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:45:24 -!- oklopol has joined. 21:12:32 oklopol: oko 21:13:44 -!- kwertii has joined. 21:13:53 okyol. 21:14:44 oerly? 21:15:44 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 21:16:52 ehird: i always like haskell! 21:16:55 ehird: i just think it sucks. 21:17:44 oklopol: okoko. oko, okoko. oko! 21:18:07 okokokokokokoko 21:18:08 okokokokokoko 21:18:09 okokokokoko 21:18:10 okokokoko 21:18:11 okokoko 21:18:12 okoko 21:18:12 oko 21:18:12 o 21:18:16 excuse me 21:18:17 oklopol: okokokokokoko 21:18:18 kokoko 21:18:33 ehird: okoko. 21:18:49 OKO?!?!?! okoko. 21:19:21 ok... 21:19:29 ehird: did robot9000 ever finish? 21:20:14 lament: I killed it because I had to go. 21:20:19 It was 3am. 21:25:00 -!- Corun has joined. 21:25:00 ``````````````okokokokokokoko converts to ``o`ko :o 21:26:18 whuz o? 21:27:06 okokokokokokokoko 21:27:32 o is `si 21:29:36 well, you know, so is your mother 21:37:48 oklopol: OKO 21:40:47 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:41:46 * oerjan finds oko utterances surprisingly short for having such low entropy per character :D 21:42:43 oerjan: okokoko 21:43:30 * oerjan regrettably isn't fluent 21:43:48 oerjan: OKOKO?! oko... okoko okokoko. okoko! 21:48:23 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko... 21:48:57 oklopol: oko 21:57:00 damn, chords are hard to parse 21:58:53 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 22:01:15 lament: what exactly are ya parsing? 22:08:03 chords 22:09:21 -!- timotiis_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:11:21 i'm assuming from a .wav 22:11:35 oklopol: string 22:19:20 oklopol: no, things like C7-9#11/Bb 22:19:36 (i'm not sure if that example is even correct) 22:19:46 more like C7b9#11/Bb 22:22:38 oh so chord names 22:22:39 right 22:22:54 forgot there actually was a standard representation 22:22:55 silly me 22:23:22 (needless to say i don't like it, i guess) 22:23:54 although, i just dislike it a little, it isn't entirely rotten 22:27:17 it's pretty good 22:27:52 it's not entirely general 22:28:14 (classical doesn't use it since it's not specific enough about inversions) 22:28:26 but no music-related notation is entirely general 22:30:01 Except for PCM :P 22:30:37 PCM does not notate music 22:30:45 it notates sound :) 22:31:36 That's like saying "the alphabet doesn't notate words, it notates sounds" 22:33:49 * pikhq knows of another general music-related notation. 22:33:51 FLAC. 22:34:01 If you want to be even more insane, Base-64 FLAC. 22:34:25 * pikhq would like to shake the hand of anyone who can read that 22:35:50 pikhq: :D 22:35:59 GregorR: the alphabet does notate words. But it does not notate novels. 22:44:16 By the same notion, music notation notates notes, but not music. 22:46:12 good point! 22:46:38 the alphabet notates words, which notate novels. 22:46:52 music notation notates notes, which notate music 22:47:19 NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE 22:47:22 note that you don't need the alphabet to notate novels - for example, you can read a novel aloud 22:47:37 in which case the novel is still notated by words, but now the words are notated by sounds 22:47:38 lament: So, a novel is notated in words. 22:47:43 that's what i said. 22:47:46 And there are multiple notations *for* words. 22:47:50 that's what i said. 22:47:52 Yes, but I was typing it before you hit enter. 22:47:54 :p 22:48:09 And PCM notates sounds which notate music BIACH 22:48:25 sounds don't notate music 22:48:29 It can. 22:48:48 well, okay. 22:48:58 In the same way that words can notate novels, or hamster power amalgamation introspective for. 22:49:00 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 22:49:01 i'd rather say music notates sounds :) 22:49:11 Actually, sounds can notate notes which can notate music. ;) 22:49:30 pikhq: not really, sounds don't notate notes 22:49:45 Tell that to someone with perfect pitch. 22:49:46 given a sound, it takes human intelligence to extract "notes" from it, and even then not precisely 22:49:50 that's hardly "notation" 22:50:11 Given a sound, it takes human intelligence to extract 'words' from it, and even then not precisely. 22:50:16 That's hardly "notation". 22:50:17 ;) 22:51:01 at least most people who speak the language are capable of hearing all the words 22:51:09 try hearing all the notes in a symphony 22:51:17 i can't do it, and you probably can't either 22:51:40 computers can sort of do speech recognition 22:51:50 Not fair. 22:51:50 we shall have to clone Mozart for that 22:51:52 but they're far from being able to write down music 22:52:03 A symphony is like having several dozen people talking at the same time. 22:52:07 pikhq: sure 22:52:08 so? 22:52:13 Computers can't do speech recognition in that environment, either. 22:52:24 if you notate the same music on a page, it's very simple 22:53:08 Given a piece of music with just a melody, and no harmony, it's much easier to write the notes. Notes have well-defined pitches. ;) 22:53:31 notes don't have well-defined pitches - consider bends, slides, vibrato 22:53:43 very easy to notate on paper, very hard to get back the note from the sound 22:54:01 The note itself has well-defined pitches. Those are more than just notes being notated there. ;) 22:54:03 strong vibrato on violin can span more than a semitone 22:54:12 is that one note, or several notes? 22:54:26 That's a matter of notation. 22:54:38 Take an arbitrary word. What are the phonemes in there? 22:54:40 ;) 22:54:51 it's exactly a matter of notation 22:54:56 we use notes to notate it 22:55:07 sound is what we're notating, ultimately 22:55:11 music is notation for sound 22:55:16 -!- timotiis has joined. 22:55:20 Then it's imperfect notation. 22:55:22 (and not the other way around) 22:56:09 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:56:09 How would one write down, say, me being *exactly* 1 Hz off from a note when singing? (not that I can do that (intentionally) :p) 22:56:38 pikhq: you use appropriate notation 22:56:45 -!- Judofyr has joined. 22:56:54 in common practice period music, you being 1 hz off is not important or interesting 22:56:59 so it doesn't have ways to notate that 22:57:45 I suppose one could also argue that *the alphabet* is a notation for sounds. 22:58:09 (an obviously imperfect one; most human writing systems don't include pitches in the written language) 22:58:36 whether the alphabet is or isn't a notation for sounds depends on the language 22:58:52 in any case, it's a notation for _phonemes_ 22:58:54 I assume a spoken language. 22:59:00 which are a notation for sound 22:59:13 Not all human writing systems are a notation for phonemes. 22:59:38 But, anyways, that's not the point. 22:59:52 And I'm not sure what the point *is*. 23:00:12 which human writing systems are not a notation for phonemes? 23:00:37 Chinese, Japanese kanji. . . 23:01:15 each chinese character notates one phoneme 23:01:32 *morph*eme 23:01:32 sorry, one syllable, several phonemes 23:01:46 Japanese kanji have multiple readings. 23:01:54 (maybe not even that) 23:02:09 doo pe dooooo 23:02:15 even english has homonyms 23:02:16 pikhq: sure, but that's not really a problem - english "wind" has several readings too 23:02:32 oerjan: they were considered inferior to heteronyms a while back though 23:03:02 Japanese kanji are used for meaning, not reading (usually). 23:03:42 pikhq: that's true of english words as well. 23:04:37 * pikhq hands lament his Japanese homework 23:04:52 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:05:09 Tell me that that list of 5 *completely* different readings imply that each character notates one syllable. 23:06:03 (a hint: unless you're dealing with man'yougana, they don't.) 23:08:23 (of course, Japanese deals in mora, not syllables, anyways) 23:14:48 'And with that, the channel died.' 23:15:28 * pikhq nods 23:28:00 all irc channels should have a bot which pipes fortune(1) to the channel if it dies for too long 23:28:00 :D 23:29:53 actually, `fortune -a` 23:30:11 err, -o 23:35:11 GregorR: Patch to Egobot? 23:36:16 RodgerTheGreat: Thinkgeek f***'d up the T-shirt! 23:36:23 Erm 23:36:27 s/Thinkgeek/Cafepress/ >_O 23:36:29 D:> 23:36:39 say it ain't so, gregor! 23:36:43 pikhq: I could do that if GregorR would put it up <.< 23:37:08 Dood, EgoBot is F/OSS. 23:37:23 I know. 23:37:30 But I don't want to run an EgoBot clone. 23:37:33 Since the ! would clash. 23:37:35 GregorR: so, *how* is the shirt fucked up? 23:37:40 And having it duplicate everything is pointless. 23:37:48 So I'd only patch it if GregorR would put it up. 23:37:52 RodgerTheGreat: A bit tough to explain, I'll send you a photo once I send it to CafePress. 23:38:07 ok 23:38:43 actually, if EgoBot is ever rewritten 23:38:45 it should be called 23:38:48 EGOR 23:38:58 EgoBot Generation O Replacement 23:39:02 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:40:24 Just write the patch and hand it to Gregor. 23:40:32 And I like that name. 23:42:34 Oh alright, I will. 23:42:41 It's in the file archives, right? 23:46:16 Right. 23:46:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:47:48 Hmm. 23:48:01 It occurs to me that I don't know the C function to get the current unix timestamp. 23:48:27 -!- Parma-Quendion has changed nick to Quendus. 23:48:42 Oh, wait. 23:48:46 time_t is a numeric 23:49:00 RodgerTheGreat: Email addy (to send the picture to)? 23:52:24 Typically a signed int. 23:52:29 (IIRC) 23:52:45 pikhq: Mm. And unfortunately, I am going to have to use pthreads to do this in a sane way. 23:52:57 And one global. But the code should stay clean. 23:53:36 I don't THINK C++ has threads in its stdlib. 23:57:15 Hmm. 23:57:21 This will count privmsg's to the bot as messages. 23:57:27 But I don't think that'll really be a problem. 23:57:58 -!- Zappy has joined. 23:58:20 -!- Zappy has left (?). 23:59:18 Hmm. 23:59:23 GregorR: EgoBot question.. 23:59:33 I can use its daemon mechanism to spawn a long-running program, right? 23:59:41 And its stdout will be piped to the channel