00:00:03 http://www.catonmat.net/download/model_view_controller_song.mp3 is shorter 00:04:17 SimonRC: That guy is hilariously ridiculous 00:04:47 "I dreamt of studying at MIT. I applied, but they rejected my application! I am angry and confused. They never told me the reason." 00:04:56 My mother says I am a special flower! How can they reject my beautiful soul?! 00:05:42 SimonRC: Also: 00:05:43 http://reddit.com/info/6fi7f/comments/c03p9s7 00:05:45 http://reddit.com/info/6fi7f/comments/c03p9t0 00:36:20 ehird, what is it? 00:36:46 Sgeo: What is ... what 00:37:01 the perl code in the comment that you commented on 00:37:22 Sgeo: Not perl code at all. 00:37:36 It was the typical ' This perl program does X! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!' 00:37:49 oh, I was thinking maybe it's obfuscated destructive program 00:38:21 Can Perl be obfuscated to look like that? 00:39:04 Sgeo: Yes, see Acme::Eyedrops 00:41:41 How does it work? 00:51:06 Sgeo: It uses Perl's varioous single-symbol constants 00:51:09 $~ $| etc 00:51:12 and regexps with eval 01:03:58 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:05:38 -!- UnrelatedToQaz has left (?). 01:06:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:29:19 http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-mathematica-1090.html 01:29:21 Hm. 01:29:28 It might not be the best looking language of the world 01:42:27 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:44:55 Guys. 01:45:09 A dude is telling me he thinks APL isn't TC. 01:45:11 What of it? 01:52:26 uhm... does he have a reason, like unbounded storage representation? I mean, it's logically complete and has flow control... 01:53:20 he's probably going with the usual "OH, well computers are ALL finite state machines, so they can't be TC and APL runs on computers" bullshit, though 01:54:19 and I think it's possible to make that mathematica program less ugly, although I don't have mathematica 6 on hand to experiment 02:09:14 Well, he wasn't sure. 02:09:27 So I checked here. 02:27:57 Hmm, 02:26 is bedtime for me. 02:28:06 I shall leave you with this 1-line Factor module that takes 60sec to compile: 02:28:09 IN: testing.values USING: assocs kernel sequences ; TUPLE: asdf ; INSTANCE: asdf sequence M: asdf length drop 0 ; M: asdf nth 2drop f ; 02:55:12 ^z^p^x^y`````z``tky`xxi``z``tky``sb``t0y```z``t0y``v`p``tkyi``v`p``tky``xx``v``tky`p``t0y 02:55:14 Aaaaaaaaaaah 02:55:24 Writing Ackerman is maddening. 02:56:47 Hm. 02:57:10 Riddle : How come a perfectly functionning program gives me indentation errors on the python shell 02:59:38 http://youtube.com/watch?v=BRG5VNNUq_E 03:02:06 * Sgeo posted the link before watching the video 03:02:19 I'll just reboot to der Linux. 03:02:33 -!- Slereah has quit. 03:06:14 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:08:19 `(``s``bb``bs``b`bs``s``bc``b`bs``c``bc``b`bc``c``bb``bc``cb`tk``siii``c``bs``cb`tk``b`sb`t0``c``bs``b`bb``b`bs``c``bb``bs``cb`t0``c``bc``b`bv``cb`tki``s``bb``bs``b`bv``cb`tk``b`c``bb``sii``b`s``bv`tk``cb`t0 03:08:25 Well, that's that. 03:09:27 Let's see if it works! 03:13:11 Well, A(0,0) gives me two. 03:13:19 This isn't a smashing success. 03:16:14 As well as... Everything? 03:16:17 Oh shit. 03:20:15 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 03:44:45 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 04:03:30 I'm really enjoying me new copy of "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!" 04:03:34 *my new copy 04:03:51 (unless I be a pirate, matey) 04:05:43 Heh. 04:06:02 I should buy that Feynman book about quantum gravity 04:06:16 But I have so much shit I still didn't finish, or at least read thoroughly. 04:06:42 I'm about halfway through G.E.B., and it's nice to have something to break it up now and then 04:06:50 pretty heavy reading at times 04:07:53 GEB? 04:09:28 http://www.amazon.com/Godel-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208660957&sr=8-1 04:09:35 surely you're joking is a way better book than GEB. 04:09:39 Oh that. 04:09:54 dude, seriously- if you don't own this book, buy a used copy for a couple bucks on amazon- it's awesome 04:10:28 lament: it's a good book, but I don't think it's better than GEB. GEB is fascinating and enjoyable to read in ways that few books are 04:10:45 i thought geb was pretty lame :) 04:10:59 feynman is amazing though 04:11:04 the whole thing is an intricate, thoughtful web of insight and brain teasers 04:11:10 Right now, I'm saving up for Science without numbers :o 04:11:21 It's out of print, so it's a whole lot of money 04:11:28 RodgerTheGreat: yes, but it's so cheezy and lame and the insight is not very deep! 04:12:26 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 04:13:23 lament: I disagree with you, sir, but this is a battle of opinions 04:13:48 Does that mean that in the end, the winner is me? 04:15:29 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:17:40 so it would appear 04:35:14 no i win. 04:35:33 But I win harder. 04:36:48 however hard you win, i always win one harder 04:37:16 H(me) = H(you) + 1 04:37:53 But if I chose infinity, we win by the same amount. 04:38:01 no 04:38:05 i win by one more. 04:38:58 But aleph 0 + 1 = aleph 0 :o 04:39:04 It has the same cardinality! 04:39:57 this is where i'd pin you down and start beating you 04:40:32 I'm aroused by that statement. 04:40:48 I hope this means what I think it means! 04:41:47 yes. you're a sick pervert 04:42:33 eval makes obfuscation too easu 04:42:34 *easy 04:42:42 eval? 04:43:14 eval usually evaluates code in whatever language you're using 04:43:21 like 04:44:34 what would be *really* interesting would be if eval evaluated code in language *different* from the one you're using that also had an eval statement 04:44:53 that could get fucked up pretty quick 04:45:15 What is Eval? 04:46:32 eval evaluates code in the language you're coding in 04:46:39 it takes a string, and evaluates it 04:47:06 if not for scoping and such, you could usually take a random line in a program, and replace with eval "origina line" 04:47:10 *original 04:47:15 A link mehby? 04:47:22 you don't get it yet? 04:47:46 I'm not quite sure. 04:47:50 but the advantage is that eval can often take a string, so you can execute new code chunks at runtime. Eval is a common feature of interpreted languages 04:47:57 Javascript has eval(), for example 04:47:58 in {eval program} program is a string, it is considered a program source, which is then interpreted as code 04:48:04 Oh. 05:00:37 -!- kwertii has joined. 05:26:39 -!- oklohot has joined. 05:28:42 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 05:44:02 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:04:55 -!- pikhq has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:13:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:33:38 Slereah: the version you linked was meant to be short, this is a bit more readable http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-mathematica-378.html 06:33:47 -!- oklohot has changed nick to oklofok. 06:36:19 yeah, I noticed that earlier 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:48:31 -!- Iskr has joined. 08:56:16 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:56:18 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has joined. 08:59:39 -!- olsner has joined. 10:17:45 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol. 10:39:27 okay sk seems to work in nopol now 10:39:27 k="<. <:> <. <::> <:>>>" 10:39:27 s="<. <:> <. <::> <. <:::> <: <: <:> <:::>> <: <::> <:::>>>>>>" 10:39:27 s=subr({"k":k,"s":s}) 10:39:27 koed=s("""<: <: <: s k> k> <.......>>""") 10:39:47 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 10:39:51 there's a fun list rewriting system that provides scoping without closures 10:40:19 basically, when substitution happens at depth n, it is quoted n times 10:40:35 where depth is the number of functions open in the right side's substitution recursion 10:40:50 <: a b> applies a to b 10:42:30 <. a b> is a "function", it has special semantics when it is returned from a substitution 10:42:38 application is substitution basically, tree-rewriting 10:43:22 means just pattern matching arg on a and returning b with substitutions done 10:43:42 perhaps i should get on the negative lists now :| 10:45:34 if pattern matching fails, pattern-based dispatching can be done by calling functions with disjoin patterns with the arg 10:45:35 like 10:45:46 <: f1 <: f2 <: f3 arg>>> 10:45:57 arg will only match one, all others are identity 10:51:32 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:59:31 haha, the quoting system actually seems to make it impossible to to dynamic scoping at all 11:47:26 -!- jix has joined. 13:21:00 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 13:54:44 -!- jix has joined. 14:38:43 * SimonRC also likes SYJMF. 14:44:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 14:46:19 -!- timotiis has joined. 14:53:53 hi * 2 14:56:22 Hihi 15:06:04 -!- timotiis_ has joined. 15:07:44 -!- timotiis has quit ("leaving"). 15:08:14 -!- timotiis_ has changed nick to timotiis. 15:16:14 Lambda expressions are hard to debug. 15:21:13 Ahah! 15:21:19 A(0,0) = 1 15:21:22 It's a start. 15:22:35 And so is everything else. 15:22:37 Damn. 15:47:32 ... 15:47:32 Wait 15:47:32 Am I completely stupid? 15:47:34 Forgot to double the combinator D: 15:48:08 Still no work. 15:55:00 well if it's any consolation, my nopol interp worked on the first attempt 15:55:15 except for syntax errors and a few trivial ones 15:55:28 it's probably quite a consolation 15:56:22 Damn you and your awesome skills. 15:56:32 What's nopol like? 15:57:13 based on tree rewriting 15:57:22 but kinda lambda calculus too 15:57:47 <. a b> is a lambda, kinda 15:58:03 it means pattern match on a, return b with substitutions done 15:58:20 <: a b> calls lambda a with param b 15:58:32 if a isn't a lambda, or pattern matching fails, b is just returned 15:58:39 otherwise the result of the lambda is returned 15:58:46 this is the basics 15:58:59 i'm implementing negative lists soon, after that it might even get interesting 15:59:33 i did do something kinda fun for scoping 16:00:06 i achieve static scoping by quoting stuff in the right side of a lambda as many times as it's contained in a function there 16:00:08 i mean 16:00:28 <. <:> <. <::> <:>>> is k 16:00:39 <:> and <::> are just considered names08:00:48 if you can see how that's k, i'll continue 16:00:55 otherwise i'll either explain more or stop 16:02:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:02:39 whhhell, that was kinda rude :) 16:02:44 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:12:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:32:28 -!- ehird has joined. 16:32:33 hello. 16:32:50 oklopol: oh finally. 16:34:44 -!- ehird_ has joined. 16:34:44 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:44:15 -!- RodgerTheGreat_ has changed nick to RodgerTheGreat. 16:54:27 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:26:01 finally what 17:33:57 oklopol: you're finally here, you've been disappeared for days 17:34:51 oklopol: interpreter worked on the first attempt, eh? which language is it written in? 17:35:47 olsner: the oklotalk-- one? 17:35:48 if so, python 17:35:58 actually, always python 17:35:59 :-) 17:36:07 "well if it's any consolation, my nopol interp worked on the first attempt" 17:36:30 Yes. Python. 17:37:36 A dude is telling me he thinks APL isn't TC. 17:37:38 He's an idiot 17:38:09 Riddle : How come a perfectly functionning program gives me indentation errors on the python shell 17:38:10 Simple! 17:38:14 You need extra newlines if you do: 17:38:15 a: 17:38:17 b 17:38:17 c: 17:38:19 d 17:38:23 so if a = def 17:38:25 and c = class 17:38:28 you need a newline between the blocks 17:39:56 oklopol: dude 17:40:00 nopol is too readable 17:40:01 go back to >< 17:42:10 -!- Judofyr has quit. 17:42:48 I put newlines everywhere, and still does not work D: 17:43:43 Slereah_: show koed 17:43:55 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Lazy%20Bird%207.py 17:44:07 The first problem is apparently line 285 17:45:44 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 17:45:53 Slereah_: put newlines after each def/while/etc 17:45:59 def/while: two newlines 17:46:06 Slereah_: And <> is deprecated. Use != 17:46:12 and instead of sys.stdout.write... 17:46:14 why not 'print'? 17:46:44 Because of the newline/space with the print 17:47:54 No amount of newlines seems to fix the problem 17:48:08 I'll just get another interpreter. 17:48:19 Slereah_: Don't get another interpreter. that's silly. 17:48:20 Also.. 17:48:24 in your file 17:48:26 put something like 17:48:29 help = """\ 17:48:32 MY TEXT HERE 17:48:34 THE LAST LINE\ 17:48:34 """ 17:48:42 Slereah_: and then your block is just 'print help' 17:49:07 Okay. 17:49:20 Well, I don't have that problem on Linux :o 17:49:49 Or on the regular Python interpreter. 17:49:54 Only on the python shel 17:50:32 Slereah_: What is the error? 17:51:21 "Inconsistent indentation detected!" 17:51:32 Which is so not true dude. 17:51:34 Slereah_: You are indenting with both tabs and spaces. 17:51:34 Don't. 17:51:37 Use just spaces. 17:51:40 Am not. 17:51:40 4-space spaces. 17:51:45 Slereah_: And you are. Python says so. 17:51:51 He lies D: 17:52:05 Ah, wait 17:52:11 I found a space there! 17:52:17 Slereah_: Good! Don't use tabs. 17:52:19 use spaces. 17:52:31 Nah. Tabs are good. 17:53:08 Wait, it seems to convert my tabs to spaces 17:53:13 Slereah_: Python convention sez use spaces. 17:53:13 What the hell. 17:53:27 Is there a big convert tabs to space buttons? 17:53:34 Slereah_: Yes. 17:53:41 Depends on your editor. :-) 17:53:46 Slereah_: but: 17:54:16 fn = 'MYPYTHONFILE'; f = open('MYPYTHONFILE').read().replace('\t', ' '); open('MYPYTHONFILE','w').write(f) 17:54:19 should do it 17:54:41 I'm in favor of using the magic button. 17:54:47 Slereah_: That's a magic button. 17:54:53 Just replace mypythonfile with the file na,e. 17:54:54 And whooosh 17:54:55 olsner: it was my nopol interp, worked on the first attempt if you don't count trivial errors, but there were quite a lot of them 17:55:05 File path, I assume 17:55:27 Slereah_: Yah. 17:55:29 Actually 17:55:32 also wb Slereah_ 17:55:38 fn = 'MYPYTHONFILE'; f = open(fn).read().replace('\t', ' '); open(fn,'w').write(f) 17:55:38 and yes, it was python ofc 17:55:39 :) 17:55:42 Slereah_: Now you just have to change the fn one 17:56:54 Wait, python accepts ; ? 17:57:19 Slereah_: Yea. 17:59:20 "Unindent does not match any outer indentation level" 17:59:23 Well, change is nice. 17:59:58 I guess I'll just redo the indentation myself. 18:00:35 Also the help file, that will be done. 18:01:12 Any other words of wisdom? 18:01:35 Slereah_: Tons. 18:01:51 I'm all ears. 18:01:51 Slereah_: Try adding some more blank lines. ;) 18:01:56 and <> should be != 18:02:00 Although I do also have other organs. 18:07:19 -!- ihope has joined. 18:08:09 ihope.. you haven't been here in a while 18:08:22 I ought to come here more often. 18:10:27 so whatcha been up to? 18:11:17 Nomics, and searching for people willing to discuss them. 18:12:46 oklopol: that's a good esolang idea. codify nomics 18:13:05 is that so? 18:13:06 Nomics? 18:13:11 ehird_: did you read about nopol? 18:13:12 http://nomic.info/perlnomic/, you mean? 18:13:29 negative lists aren't implemented yet, but enough is for it to be lc complete 18:13:32 ihope: NOT AN ESOLANG 18:13:45 oklopol: yes, oklopol: dude 18:13:50 nopol is too readable 18:13:52 go back to <> 18:13:54 (that's what i said) 18:14:01 hmm, what do you mean? 18:14:08 oh 18:14:11 you mean k and s there? 18:14:14 From the Agora Nomic ruleset: "A nomic ruleset is a set of explicit rules that provides means for itself to be altered arbitrarily, including changes to those rules that govern rule changes." 18:14:29 oklopol: well, yeah 18:14:30 you have : 18:14:30 and . 18:14:35 and properly balanced stuff 18:14:38 : and . are for naming 18:14:43 go back to < >< <>< > <> > 18:14:48 proper balancing is for not yet having negative lists 18:14:53 charset='<','>',' ' 18:14:56 hmm... 18:15:01 it would be far more awesome 18:15:11 What is nopol? 18:15:11 hmmhmm 18:15:25 atm, : and . are used for tagging lists with a name 18:15:38 oklopol: kind of violates the conceptual purity though doesn't it 18:15:39 i mean 18:15:42 analyze my character set 18:15:46 but i guess you could replace that with an arbitrary tree as the first element 18:15:48 we have the leftness 18:15:52 and the rightness 18:15:54 balancing themselves out 18:15:56 to describe things 18:15:57 and the space 18:15:59 to seperate them 18:16:54 ehird_: what do you mean when you say "NOT AN ESOLANG"? 18:17:03 ihope: perl 18:17:07 well, i would like to do something "cleverer" than encoding lc into tree rewriting 18:17:13 also, ihope, does it enforce the rules? 18:17:15 but as that isn't all that easy 18:38:54 it's always hard for me not to have my langauge be tc right away 18:41:20 alright 18:41:22 :P 18:41:26 thanks :) 18:42:05 because how could i ever do something not everyone is completely satisfied with. 18:45:11 not all rewriting rules make sense with tagging 18:45:18 also negative lists forget all about them 18:45:40 so they aren't really all that beautiful in the same sense as the lists themselves, and the parsing rules 18:45:48 which are of course genious 18:46:14 *us 19:02:50 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:32:58 oklopol: i just wrote an API for dictionaries in python 19:32:59 i mean 19:33:01 word dictionaries 19:33:01 :P 19:33:14 it uses http://ninjawords.com/! 19:39:38 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:40:12 Judofyr: hi 19:40:18 SimonRC: hi :) 19:46:25 oklopol: not interested? ;) 19:51:16 oklopol: oh well, here it is http://rafb.net/p/qYWaAg73.html 19:51:21 you can use it from the command line 19:51:25 'python ninjawords.py hello world bar' 19:51:27 or 19:51:30 >>> import ninjawords 19:51:39 >>> ninjawords.define('hello', 'world', 'bar') 19:51:50 ninjawords.define_one('foo') spares you the dictionary 19:52:03 you can unicode()/str() words and entries 19:52:08 and get the word name .word 19:52:10 the entries .entries 19:52:15 or the link to wiktionary if applicable .link 19:52:23 the entries have .definition (the definition text) 19:52:27 and .examples (None or the examples text) 19:52:32 simple 19:53:10 nice screen-scraping :rolleyes: 19:57:10 SimonRC: yes :P 19:57:15 nothing wrong with that, though 19:57:20 ninjawords itself scrapes from wikiquote 19:57:35 um, wow 19:57:55 err 19:57:56 wiktionary 19:57:57 ofc 19:58:05 okokok 19:58:06 *o 19:58:14 also 19:58:18 i just made the API less horrific 19:58:19 yey 19:58:20 http://rafb.net/p/ShO6Qb79.html 19:58:26 now define() doesn't return a silly dictionary 19:58:38 define('hello','world','abc') => [defn of hello,defn of world,defn of abc] 20:00:50 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 20:00:50 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:01:58 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:02:01 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:02:28 [21:01] I'm drinking some juice out of a Klein bottle. 20:02:28 [21:01] How awesome is this? 20:02:32 Was I saying. 20:05:37 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:05:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:10:51 -!- fizzie2 has joined. 20:10:51 -!- fizzie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:11:03 A nomic game over IRC could be interesting. 20:11:53 We could make it quite fast-paced if we wanted to. Propose a rule change and five minutes later, it's either passed or failed. 20:17:57 Anyone interested? 20:18:02 Probably not :P 20:18:05 But. 20:18:06 Sounds interesting. 20:18:14 :-P 20:18:23 #ircnomic? 20:18:43 Sounds good. 20:18:45 http://rafb.net/p/SxwM0e29.html ninjawords api v34348234 20:22:43 It's been done. 20:22:58 Has it? 20:23:08 Don't remember a specific example ATM. 20:37:01 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:37:01 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:39:26 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:41:59 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:42:28 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:51:54 -!- Iskr has quit ("Leaving"). 21:03:11 -!- timotiis has joined. 21:10:12 -!- jix has joined. 21:15:35 -!- calamari has joined. 21:15:37 hi 21:16:04 hi 21:27:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:31:52 made the system allow >65336 bytes outputs (this is the limit of linux pipe) for this this challenge. thanks yshl for investigating. 21:31:55 that challenge is mine 21:31:55 ;) 21:32:01 i made shinh fix golf! yay 22:28:42 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 22:36:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 22:42:10 Hihopehird 22:42:34 heh 22:42:40 You're on a budget for bits? 22:46:59 -!- atsampson has quit ("network card replacement"). 22:58:04 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 23:01:32 -!- atsampson has joined. 23:01:46 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:03:52 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:04:19 -!- Judofyr has joined. 23:13:17 * SimonRC goes to bed. ("Brazil thinks you're cute.") 23:18:24 -!- Quendus has changed nick to Parma_Quendion. 23:36:29 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:38:36 SimonRC: Well, the USA thinks you're fat. 23:40:55 darn, then he must be enormous 23:41:05 Exactly. 23:41:18 -!- ehird has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Made of fluffy bell rings and envelope tings.. 23:41:27 No, I don't know what a ting is. 23:42:23 * oerjan thought that was a quote but it's not googlelicious