< 1209168782 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My password for the esolang wiki is "esoteric"? How insecure. < 1209168833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: No, it's not. < 1209168854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1209168854 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't try it, did you? < 1209168857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1209168858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I did < 1209168859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one would ever expect it to be that simple!! < 1209168872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION Swhacks oklopol
< 1209168898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just shit me? < 1209168904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1209168905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swhack < 1209168907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an #ircnomic term < 1209168922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do believe you are a player < 1209168923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore < 1209168927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you accept the Swhack? < 1209168959 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209168982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You'd like #ircnomic. It has silly Agora-Like Uppercase Terms < 1209168990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new ruleset is proving to be quite a joy, < 1209169004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what swhacking is, but my pun works no matter what it is < 1209169048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You must answer yes or no - do you accept the Swhack? < 1209169080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are confusing the real world with ircnomic, man :) < 1209169092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to do either until i know what swhackin is < 1209169099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g < 1209169104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's not an option. Do you accept the Swhack or not? < 1209169115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: w00ts. < 1209169125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209169128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's but one problem: ATM, I don't have time for much in the way of nomics. < 1209169133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and ihope is an admin there, so there's even part of Agora in there < 1209169135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will post-graduation, though. < 1209169140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not like ircnomic does anything < 1209169144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the most in-depth nomic < 1209169147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't nomics kinda suck? < 1209169148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be in a month. < 1209169151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I love them. < 1209169153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no. < 1209169154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they don't < 1209169166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't they all die because the players lose interest because the game is so boring? < 1209169172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomi omi o < 1209169185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: isn't that true for everything? < 1209169194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Agora is in its second decade of existence. < 1209169211 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, people manage to finish other games quite often < 1209169227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :games that can be finished are never fun < 1209169242 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the finish that can be finished is not the true finish. < 1209169255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i guess you got me there < 1209169256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Heck, you should pop in to #ircnomic. It's not *totally* lame, I promise ;) < 1209169269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some people don't like the vote-tracking bot, you probably will, because it's PYTHON OH GOD < 1209169270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to do some serious sleeping now < 1209169270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1209169283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The rule list website is also written in Python, so I guess you like that too) < 1209169411 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many rules are there? < 1209169428 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of Agora? < 1209169429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: only like 14 < 1209169431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're short < 1209169436 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1209169436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of agora, though, a few hundred < 1209169470 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is agora? < 1209169507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: The longest-running nomic. < 1209169513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Started in 1993/ < 1209169515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still going today. < 1209169524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the oldest one, but the longest-running < 1209169524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean apart from being a nomic < 1209169534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's just ... a very long-running, famous nomic. < 1209169541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209169547 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nomic with many rules. < 1209169547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the united states is a nomic, but it's also a country < 1209169563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: "(Yep, I just said I disliked scamming in another message.)" -- you < 1209169566 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The canonical example is Canada, not the United States. :-P < 1209169566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. I forgot that recent Agoran ruling. < 1209169577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ihope just did a great scam by defining Marvy < 1209169593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Unless it's in the rules, the definition does not apply. < 1209169595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is now messing around with things for not Dancing a Powerful Dance < 1209169598 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's paying attention to it yet. :-P < 1209169602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well it's on general-business < 1209169614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(believe me, I've tried to scam a lack of definition for something before) < 1209169647 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Marvies accused are a contract, myself, and an instance of a currency. I'm guessing that I'm the only one that can actually be charged with anything. < 1209169689 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the map of agora is interesting < 1209169693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Unless the rules define a Marvy, Marvies do not exist, as far as that rule is concerned. < 1209169707 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1209169728 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I have that contract that aspires to be a rule. < 1209169756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Stick the power-4 rule in the contract, and start an equity case. :p < 1209169843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: anyway, although Agora is a nomic it's hard to define what else it is, because the gameplay that isn't meta is much less long-lived < 1209169863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gameplay itself rapidly changes and disappears and reappears. < 1209169871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's multiple modules of gameplay at once - or none < 1209169875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The *mechanics* of the gameplay change rapidly. < 1209169883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The types are actually fairly stable. < 1209169893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1209169913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The electoral system, courts, contests, and contracts have been in the rules since '93 or '94. < 1209169925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the mechanics since then have changed so incredibly much. ;) < 1209169996 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds cool < 1209170014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, can't forget the patent title system. < 1209170038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few hundred, at my last count. < 1209170054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which, admittedly, is a bit old.) < 1209170366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esperanto conferences average 2000 to 3000 participants every year whereas Ido conferences have had anywhere from 13 to 25 participants over the last decade. Each language also has a number of regional conferences during the year on a much less formal basis, and with smaller numbers." < 1209170372 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1209170392 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the world conference has 13 participants, then how many participants does a conference "with smaller numbers" have? < 1209170406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it still a conference when there're two participants? :) < 1209170461 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1209170496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas Esperanto may be averaging a few hundred per smaller conference. < 1209170499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1209170530 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't the Bible define a conference or something? :-P < 1209170551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows that the Esperantido is smaller, but damn; didn't know it was that much smaller.
< 1209170569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperantido, heh < 1209170595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That *is* the etymology of Ido. < 1209170606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But amusing < 1209170616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a reason for it, to. < 1209170619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to/too/ < 1209170631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ido *is* an Esperantido. The very first, in fact. ;) < 1209170683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto is lame. I like lojban. < 1209170684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Esperantido being the family of languages related to Esperanto; the term comes from Esperanto: "Esperantido".) < 1209170687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only because I know the very basics < 1209170695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mi'e .Eli,at.xrd. < 1209170696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe < 1209170709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Lojban is a very interesting linguistic experiment. < 1209170722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely that many will use it, but interesting, nevertheless. < 1209170725 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think lojban is far more lame than esperanto. < 1209170740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban is a lot of fun. < 1209170750 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esperanto has the goal of allowing people to communicate. < 1209170754 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot of fun. < 1209170769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban has the goal of trying to be weird. < 1209170781 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... kinda lame in comparison :) < 1209170789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Esperanto is meant as a practical interesting language. Lojban is meant as *just* an interesting language. < 1209170810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both are admirable goals. . . Especially since Lojban does it in a way easily parsable by computers. < 1209170820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban has a defined goal < 1209170822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the official Lojban grammer is published in BNF) < 1209170822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah. < 1209170825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1209170828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's published as a yacc file < 1209170830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i strongly believe lojban is pure idiocy < 1209170830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more impressive < 1209170855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The BNF file is considered official, the YACC file is considered something useful, and *should* be equivalent to the BNF (but isn't necessarily). < 1209170866 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a computer-parsable grammar should not be a design goal for human languages, for several reasons, of which the main one is that humans aren't computers < 1209170879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: It's not designed for every-day use. < 1209170884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an experiment, an idea. < 1209170884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: The main suggested uses of Lojban involve artificial intelligence usage. < 1209170887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting. It's fun to learn! < 1209170894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with that? < 1209170897 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an example of something else that was designed to be readable by both humans and computers, see XML. < 1209170911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament loses the conversation < 1209170917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for saying the stupidest thing imaginable < 1209170919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For an example of XML failing at that, see SVG. < 1209170931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: He was being sarcastic. < 1209170937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a totally lame, irrelevant way < 1209170938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And I'm not. < 1209170943 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not being sarcastic, i'm saying lojban is similar to xml in a way < 1209170953 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to do two things, and is pretty bad at both :) < 1209170970 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you don't need a whole new language to talk to computers. < 1209170981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: .. you don't understand what lojban is for < 1209170994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can only point you to #lojban for an explanation of why you are wrong < 1209171005 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's your usual strategy for arguments :) < 1209171015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's valid. < 1209171018 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claim something, you can't substantiate it at all, and you direct me to some IRC channel. < 1209171054 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not, if you know i don't understand then i have to assume that you do understand, otherwise how could you know i don't? And if you understand, then you could tell me. < 1209171055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, he's saying "I suck at arguing this point; these people don't." < 1209171059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with an irc channel if they can explain better than I can, lament? < 1209171075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, alternatively, "I have no fucking clue; these people do.") < 1209171081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh come on. < 1209171101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: In this case, it's not you saying *that*, though. < 1209171257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my issue with this line of argument is not that they can explain better than you do. I'm sure they can. < 1209171276 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my issue is that you're wrong to begin with. :) < 1209171303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you are wrong < 1209171312 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, this is why your way of arguing can't work < 1209171367 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i'm concerned, i'm right (otherwise i wouldn't be arguing) < 1209171397 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209171399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if somebody explains to me why i'm wrong, i can accept that. < 1209171413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that somebody resides within a certain channel. < 1209171435 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're free to argue with me if they want to, but i don't think they do. < 1209171445 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're in a way pushing _your_ responsibility on them. < 1209171869 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal of lojban is to be geeky. < 1209171873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quote wikipedia: < 1209171876 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are generational "classes" of Lojbanists: Old Growth, Sci-Fi (in the late 1980s, recruited through Sci-fi cons), Conlangers (in the early 1990s, recruited through constructed language afficionadodom), Geeks (always present, but somewhat more prominent in the late 1990s, recruited mostly through computer science interest), New Growth." < 1209171926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: uhh, so what wikipedia thinks of lojban users means that the language itself has a certain property < 1209171936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: deferring this to you, i have better things to do - like sleep < 1209172197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: My retort: who cares? It's an interesting linguistic experiment; leave it at that. < 1209172318 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, certainly. < 1209172670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, I'm not a major Lojban freak. ;) < 1209172816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW: one of the most painful things ever is hearing Shatner in "Inkubo". < 1209172848 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you watched that movie? In Eo? < 1209172883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only in Eo. < 1209172898 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it as terrible as everybody says? < 1209172907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pronunciation, yes. < 1209172911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've only seen short clips) < 1209172940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shatner speaks Esperanto with a French accent, for God's sake. < 1209172964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you speak eo? < 1209172992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't eo be fairly insensitive to pronunciation, being universal and all? < 1209173026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I speak some Esperanto, yes. < 1209173042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still possible to royally fuck up the pronunciation. < 1209173063 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1209173085 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to learn eo at the moment < 1209173197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how the Esperanto in "Red Dwarf" is. . .
< 1209173278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Red Dwarf" is a British comedy series from the 80's, set in a bilingual space ship: eo-utf8 and en-uk-utf8) < 1209173354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think they specified utf-8. < 1209173365 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oddly, the (English) wikipedia article on Red Dwarf doesn't mention esperanto at all :) < 1209173367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Probably not. < 1209173372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Odd. < 1209173375 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but the esperanto one does) < 1209173408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1209173425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Wikipedia page on Esperanto culture, IIRC, mentioned it. < 1209173428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in en) < 1209173442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You're right. eo-spoken and en-uk-spoken, then? :p < 1209173478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how about Esperanto and British English, you dork < 1209173488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But I'm a dork! < 1209173530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the Japanese page on it
< 1209173589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not seeing it there. < 1209173646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the Japanese article on Esperanto. :p
< 1209173685 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esperanto kaj Brita anglo :) < 1209173691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jes. < 1209173753 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long did you learn eo for? < 1209173832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 years, *but* I've only really studied intensively for a few weeks. Do, mia Esperanto ne bonegas. < 1209173846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not recently, either) < 1209173899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1209174056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusing; the Japanese Esperanto article has a section on words Esperanto borrows from Japanese. < 1209174100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did not know Eo used "hasxioj" for chopsticks. < 1209174111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from the Japanese, "hashi".) < 1209174629 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Chinese must be pretty upset about that one. < 1209174804 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the mandarin pronunciation is very close, so it's easier for them as well. < 1209174869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odds are, the Chinese pronunciation was closer when the Japanese first used that as a loan word. ;) < 1209174920 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if japanese is more conservative < 1209174980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronunciation-wise, at least. < 1209174996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've dropped a few phonemes in the past several hundred years, though. < 1209181352 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1209183349 0 :evincarofautumn!n=chatzill@WPIS-64-140-228-74.tnt2.modem.worldpath.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209183549 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey there. < 1209183559 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1209183586 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly dead, then, eh? < 1209183593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1209183600 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be expected. < 1209183602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, ATM. < 1209183638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get something going about esoteric programming languages, and people atart talking more. < 1209183649 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1209183664 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's been a while for me, so I figured I'd get back in the swing, you know? < 1209183669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1209183692 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I implemented an esolang was... < 1209183697 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a few years ago. < 1209183702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shameful. < 1209183711 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sho' you right. < 1209183723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm one to talk. < 1209183730 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1209183730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My last work on PEBBLE was last year. < 1209183734 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happens to the best of us. < 1209183752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Senior year of high school takes a lot of time, oddly. :p < 1209183768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full high school + college workload: not the wisest of ideas. < 1209183840 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I'm a senior right now. < 1209183857 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a damn shame the way school gets in the way of learning sometimes. < 1209183866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1209183879 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1209183880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just let me write my kernel in peace. < 1209183881 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs. < 1209183896 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea formulating. < 1209183900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. < 1209183941 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see... it's 2d. There's an execution pointer as a vector offset into the space. Some standard-issue commands, whatever. < 1209183948 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But. < 1209183958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, it's standard Funge. . . < 1209183958 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execution can be branched. < 1209183969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forkfunge? Oh god. < 1209183981 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have multiple execution pointers running at once. < 1209183987 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're guaranteed to run concurrently. < 1209183989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said: forkfunge. < 1209183996 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they crash together, they unify into one thread. < 1209184017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the direction? < 1209184021 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1209184023 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, man. < 1209184025 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best idea ever. < 1209184030 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attractors. < 1209184037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209184045 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are attractors, toward which a thread moves. < 1209184058 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The attractor can be moved when the thread reaches a certain position. < 1209184063 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's your event-handling code, right there. < 1209184075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209184082 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think maybe one attractor for each thread? < 1209184104 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And moving two attractors to the same position guarantees that the threads will crash and unify. < 1209184117 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a roll! < 1209184132 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to think of syntax... < 1209184134 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1209184136 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help. < 1209184145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge it. < 1209184145 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack! < 1209184148 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help! < 1209184153 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... < 1209184163 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what am I saying. < 1209184170 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basic instruction set before syntax. < 1209184178 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It _has_ been a while) < 1209184221 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. Well, we can assume one thread that starts at (0, 0), attracted to the bottom right of the program. < 1209184248 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should vertical and horizontal movement be independent? < 1209184255 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you'd have the problem of rounding. < 1209184395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUnno. < 1209184547 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. This one kind of crapped out on me. < 1209184553 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll sleep on it later. < 1209186001 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209186663 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1209186683 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late, must sleep. < 1209186689 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm outta here. < 1209186691 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]" < 1209195541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1209196799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1209196800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1209200802 0 :Iskr!n=i@host238-59-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1209200893 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1209200959 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-190-148.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209201120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the user base of lojban is very clear on lojban being made for *actual use*, my arguments about adding modules, and having less words for boring real life objects and more for abstract concepts aren't usually taken that well. < 1209201128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's made for use by people < 1209201142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i find stupid, who cares about people, i want a good language. < 1209201202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban is indeed more computer-friendly than many languages, but in my opinion it is way too set in its ways, for instance, you cannot program in it directly, during conversation < 1209201381 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attractor based programming seems like a genuinely new idea < 1209201391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll go drink coffee -> < 1209201422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me to tell evin to fuck themselves if they return, for inventing it before me! < 1209201422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1209202223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, no i have in mind an incredibly cool language, WITH GRAPHS, but the main idea is still to attract the computational agent towards a certain spot, just to move that spot before it gets there < 1209202226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now < 1209202244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was not an original idea, so it's totally useless < 1209202285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asd < 1209202623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban's main problem, imo, is the fact every construct has its own brackets for nesting < 1209202651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might be easier for humans, again, but it's not very pure < 1209202688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalna did nesting using rising and falling tones, it was far more beautiful < 1209202715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should continue it < 1209202824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lojban has a very weird *vocabulary*, nothing else is weird about it < 1209202863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also magenta disappointed me, most of it is quite ordinary and boring < 1209202868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ais prolly doesn't logread < 1209202876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird prolly does < 1209202884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if they care or anyone else cares < 1209202893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1209202908 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, do continue ;-) < 1209202936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, that graph thing is the ultimate uncompilable language: when an agent moves towards an attractor, it always takes the shortest path within the graph :D < 1209202988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have any number of agents, and attractors, both have a "color", and agents move towards the closest attractor of same color, or towards a black one < 1209202998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1209203013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nodes may contain operations that modify the graph < 1209203018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209203022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really quite a lot of things < 1209203047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what this means is, we essentially need to do a bredth-first search for the whole graph for each agent each cycle :) < 1209203063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i can't! that was it about magent < 1209203063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1209203065 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pathfinding, walking a vertex, then modifying the graph? how are modifications synchronized between agents? < 1209203081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they happen simulateneously. < 1209203110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me an example of two actions within a graph that cannot, and i'll explain why you're wrong! < 1209203131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that's the evaluation model. < 1209203150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lot of attractor teleportation and graph expanding ofc < 1209203179 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe there are useful N-to-N pathfinding algorithms out there, so you might not have to BFS the whole graph every time < 1209203182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love something like this in graphs, it's fairly tiring using a set number of dimentions½! < 1209203200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, and you just have to search new paths. < 1209203210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209203223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something changes, just check if that has an effect on an agent < 1209203224 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, graphs are the shit < 1209203248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so do you know graphica HAVE I MENTIONED GRAPHICA? < 1209203262 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, and I believe you just mentioned it < 1209203285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so gonna paste my n-dimensional hypercube now. < 1209203295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/graphica.txt < 1209203338 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks somewhat like haskell < 1209203351 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also not < 1209203373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph creation model was inspired by the haskell type system < 1209203377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the syntax of it < 1209203417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the idea that because you can make a tree very nicely with that kinda recursive structure < 1209203427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be nice to use that as the base < 1209203427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209203441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can make it an arbitrary graph by tagging nodes < 1209203445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later connecting to a certain tag < 1209203506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what happens in that code. < 1209203517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: tags a node < 1209203525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := redirects the evaluation of a node < 1209203526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1209203547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically means the node is re-evaluated as whatever is the ropd < 1209203550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right operand < 1209203568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Main = BHCube 5 means we don't make a main node, but a bhcube instead < 1209203582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because main is assumed to be the node created < 1209203613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've prolly explained all this to you separately too :D < 1209203631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i have a boner for graphica, because it's one of my few *awesome* ideas < 1209204070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting desperate, if anyone knows of a keyboard where keys aren't in fact dispersed completely randomly, meaning keys in all rows are on top of each other or that the top and the bottom row are, and the middle row is half a key off so it's a diagonal grid kinda, i'm willing to pay anything < 1209204108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just can't take it, it makes no sense < 1209204119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION explodes
< 1209204515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand how people can use this thing < 1209204516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209204533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you use the whole home row system < 1209204544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingers need to bend in very weird positions < 1209204569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do even dvorak keyboards still use these key positions? < 1209204652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.maltron.com/images/keyboards/maltron-usb-dual-l90-uk-mac-dvorak-1-large.jpg <<< there is a god!!! < 1209204662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209209137 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-154-229-246.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209209173 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey all < 1209210090 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209210131 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1209210142 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032620]" < 1209212038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1209212069 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209212646 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209214871 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]" < 1209216414 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209216592 0 :Slereah!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-49-226.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209218387 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.84.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209218626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209218665 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.84.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209219205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lojban is indeed more computer-friendly than many languages, but in my opinion it is way too set in its ways, for instance, you cannot program in it directly, during conversation < 1209219212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eagerly await the pronounciation guide for oklotalk < 1209219298 0 :Slereah_!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-35-37.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1209219306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but ais prolly doesn't logread 09:41:08 < 1209219306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird prolly does < 1209219307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we both do < 1209219311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :religiously < 1209219311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1209219561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and if ais523 is logreading, it seems http://indecenturl.com/ got put up for realz < 1209220052 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209220254 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@h150212.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1209220343 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209220402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: time to logread < 1209220406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i replied to your logreads < 1209220728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1209220863 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209220872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209220887 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.84.224 JOIN :#esoteric < 1209221529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly idea: Make your cursor transparent, put xeyes in each corner. < 1209222255 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1209222503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Also, use twm. < 1209222530 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"twm"? < 1209222624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the window manager of last resort", to quote wikipedia. < 1209222799 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209222908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we had Endeavour in here, i'd just do this: < 1209222910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.w twm < 1209222914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd quote the opening paragraph < 1209222915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beat that < 1209222980 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1209223069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it wouldn't screen-scrape either, oh no < 1209223076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would get the raw wikitext and render that into text < 1209223081 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1209223122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=twm&action=raw < 1209223138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just change things like ''a'' to *a* < 1209223144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209223146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''a'' to _a_ < 1209223148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's italics < 1209223153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: < 1209223205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In computing, *twm* (*Tom's Window Manager* or *Tab Window Manager*) is the standard window manager for the X Window System, version X11R4 onwards. twm was created by Tom LaStrange. It is a re-parenting window manager that provides title bars, shaped windows and icon management, and is extensively configurable. < 1209223209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it highlighted links: < 1209223231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In , *twm* (*Tom's Window Manager* or *Tab Window Manager*) is the standard for the , version X11R4 onwards. twm was created by Tom LaStrange. It is a that provides title bars, shaped windows and icon management, and is extensively configurable. < 1209223261 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1209223326 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@h146121.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1209223332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloklopol < 1209223411 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi... klopol. < 1209223414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1209223421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hieslereah < 1209223478 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kl;;klayhdfoig < 1209223775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Lo. < 1209223819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loes < 1209223930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: asjhdkj < 1209223958 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aoeu < 1209224202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghjk < 1209224258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1209224321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ ´. _a--¤ < 1209224353 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have a weird keyboard < 1209224377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: finnish < 1209224379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1209224629 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209225358 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209226494 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1209226580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah finnish < 1209226599 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, a weird keyboard < 1209226639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ¤ is just the generic currency symbol, it's an encoding issue < 1209226642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnscript fails < 1209226649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the name is < 1209226714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm < 1209226718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name a good gc algo! < 1209226735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna do a fun scheme in python again :P < 1209227549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: link to your schm interp < 1209227551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna rip it off < 1209227674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually < 1209227691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if i give you one php file that'll add searching to vjn.fi/pb will you add it? < 1209227696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i can just find my own scm each time i want it < 1209227696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1209227762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There aren't any. There's only crappy and more crappy. < 1209227762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1209227831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :P < 1209228488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: plz? < 1209228567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i can do a search myself, the biggest problem is having to connect to the page to upload it < 1209228580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, but this is one php file that does it all for you < 1209228587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and supports everything grep does, regexps etc < 1209228632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as hard as it is to write a program to search a set of files for a regexp given a built-in support for that exact thing, i think i could manage. < 1209228687 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm not sure i want people to search it, i've uploaded a lot of private stuff,. < 1209228753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heck, the only person who would use it is me, to find your scheme interpreter, once in a blue moon < 1209228848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also, mine bolds the text that matches and stuffs :P < 1209228899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i've almost finished writing it < 1209228900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1209229257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: think it's done. < 1209229259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't test it < 1209229263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna upload it to test? :< < 1209229302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, here it is http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p464335445.txt < 1209229309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it as vjn.fi/pb/search.php and everything SHOULD work < 1209229455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if it doesn't work, add more oko to it < 1209229456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should < 1209229466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1209229468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not ready yet < 1209229476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hum. What did I say my password for the wiki is? < 1209229490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p336232313.txt fixed < 1209229493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: 'esoteric' < 1209229495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't work < 1209229515 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it a few more times. < 1209229534 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Subtle typing error, I guess. < 1209229564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Don't worry. I'll work it out for you! < 1209229585 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already figured it out. :-P < 1209229590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: What is it? < 1209229605 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"esoteric", of course. < 1209229624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Which wiki account is this? < 1209229629 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope127. < 1209229638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: The password for Ihope127 is not: esoteric < 1209229642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried it. Multiple times. < 1209229651 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might stumble upon a revelation that allows you to log in as me eventually. :-P < 1209229660 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're right. It's not "esoteric". < 1209229687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not: "esoteric" either < 1209229690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even: 'esoteric < 1209229690 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"esoteric" is just the mnemonic. < 1209229711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: sotric? < 1209229716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sotearic? < 1209229742 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|_00|<, 1'|\/| &1\/1|\|& `/0|_| |\/||_|(|-| 0|= +|-|3 1|\||=0|2|\/|4+10|\| `/0|_| |\|33|). < 1209229744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: plz? < 1209229808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i dun wrote it gud < 1209229815 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now quit trying to log in as me :-P < 1209229844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Oh come on, I'm not THAT good at leetspeak < 1209230413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me leaves! < 1209230414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1209230416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1209230454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sghsfgsdgfhdfg < 1209230919 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1209232618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209232621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know grep < 1209232623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so < 1209232629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i reverse the filename and regexp arguments? < 1209232635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, i want to put the regexp after -- < 1209232639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no options are interpreted in it < 1209232642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, -+ < 1209232678 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1209232750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yay you're back < 1209232755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually made my pastey search work < 1209232756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tested it < 1209232757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1209232758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209232770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one teeeeny bug i need to fix and even then it doesn't affect anything < 1209232773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good for you! < 1209232778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now put it up < 1209232779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1209232788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhhhell < 1209232790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll paste it < 1209232796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i want people to search the pastespace < 1209232797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1209232799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have < 1209232800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :private < 1209232801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff < 1209232802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in there < 1209232811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i could refresh the folder < 1209232813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smth < 1209232817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209232822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refresh the folder but keep the scheme interp < 1209232822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209232825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck < 1209232827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209232830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: gimme the paster source < 1209232832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add private pastes < 1209232837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their url will be longer and they won't be searched < 1209232844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should only take ~5 min < 1209232845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make a search for logged in users with admin levels and search for ya? < 1209232860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: whole point is don't wanna botehr you :P < 1209232866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you gimme the source i'll just add private pastes < 1209232871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1209232873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat idea: < 1209232876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :private pastes keep the current urls < 1209232881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-private pastes get different-looking urls < 1209232885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the search ignores private pastes < 1209232890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then you don't need to do anything < 1209232893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all current pastes get private < 1209232896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kept < 1209232910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pb is not entirely mine, and officially, it's not at all mine. < 1209232924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make your own pastebin and put your search in there maybe? :) < 1209232928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm sure you'll be killed for improving it without any effect < 1209232929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209232942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since this wouldn't require any kind of moving etc etc < 1209232944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volimo does not like people touching his code < 1209232955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, i guess it wouldn't be that bad, it's just i don't want a search there. < 1209232964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1209232970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: why not, if only public-marked pastes are searched < 1209233077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's no prob then, but i don't have time to add the functionality < 1209233085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you cannot do it, sry. < 1209233099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :P < 1209233105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i should be doing is to read about web programming :D < 1209233119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in php? you'd rather rot out your brain, i assure you < 1209233131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in php? < 1209233135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :web programming in php < 1209233141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course includes quite a lot of languages < 1209233164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple for asp and cgi, javascript, applets, php, perl, ruby etc. < 1209233190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so if i make a pastebin just like the vjn.fi one but with awesome searchy and private pastes and coolness itself and ... will you use it? :P < 1209233194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least put your scheme interp on it < 1209233243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why i should use it, i can just add the search at some point myself :| < 1209233254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 3 lines of code < 1209233269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :P < 1209233274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep_with_line_numbers() < 1209233277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have syntax highlightinggg.... < 1209233293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it like that, and it'll make the form to ask for the regexp, then search < 1209233303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php is just that awesome < 1209233306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah yes but mine links to the pastes and seperates by filename and it's all fancy < 1209233314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's only like 30 lines < 1209233314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209233352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(link_to_paste_where_regexp_was_found line_number_of_first_occurrance "\n")* < 1209233354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1209233373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: noes < 1209233376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is far more awesome < 1209233380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1209233384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tell me < 1209233385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll only see how awesome if that's uploaded as search.php < 1209233386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209233392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to explain < 1209233395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the output is truly awesome. < 1209233398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1209233401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicest search interface, evar < 1209233406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell me what it is. < 1209233412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it even sorts it, damnit < 1209233412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is hard to exlain < 1209233414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*explain < 1209233423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, oko is < 1209233426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that searcher is a bit like oko < 1209233446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you called the primitive sort function? how the fuck did you manage to do that ;) < 1209233463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell me exactly what it output < 1209233464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1209233480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: uhh i could paste loads of html i guess < 1209233490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1209233495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just put it up for like 3 seconds and give it a search like: '^class ' < 1209233499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see the awesome < 1209233510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then like make it only available to admins < 1209233512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209233515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which IS like 3 lines) < 1209233522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume) < 1209233572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not going to do that especially if you won't tell me what's so awesome about it. < 1209233628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it sorts it right, it handles everything like you'd expect, the links are in a nice place and are nicely standing-out, the included matching lines display is great, ... < 1209233650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so give me the bnf representing the output, man < 1209233663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(link_to_paste_where_regexp_was_found line_number_of_first_occurrance "\n")* <<< can't imagine anything better than this < 1209233666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that would make no sense < 1209233672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it is better than that < 1209233674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lists matches great < 1209233679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, just goddamn upload it and look at it < 1209233680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for like 3 seconds < 1209233682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remove it < 1209233694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(link_to_paste_where_regexp_was_found line_number_of_occurrance+ "\n")* ? < 1209233697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1209233711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, man, no sale. < 1209233717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's more like < 1209233731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste NUMBER < 1209233732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1209233733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in monospaced < 1209233742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line_number occurance "\n")+ < 1209233742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's number? < 1209233746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: paste number < 1209233748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 23872349 < 1209233759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but upload it and try it out < 1209233760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1209233770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Paste" link_to_paste_where_regexp_was_found (line_number_of_occurrance "\n")+ "\n")* < 1209233774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nope < 1209233792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot the styling (which makes it look a lot nicer believe me - i tweaked with it a bit) < 1209233795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the actual occurance < 1209233797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc etc etc < 1209233807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see this is why it's hard to explain, it's great, try it out < 1209233816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care much for styling < 1209233833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not STYLING < 1209233835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just marking < 1209233838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it a lot easier to skim the results < 1209233840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me an example, if you've tested it, you should have one < 1209233843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& click quickly < 1209233850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i tested it but it was in my cache and it's gone now < 1209233857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't have good enough test data to demonstrate it properly < 1209233883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to see how it shows its findings. < 1209233893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see how it can be different from what i said < 1209233897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i hear it's far more awesome < 1209233904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if you don't get it then you'll just need to look at it < 1209233908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i have explained it in various ways < 1209233939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Paste NUMBER (line_number occurance "\n")+ paste_separator)+ < 1209233945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you explained something like this < 1209233949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: kiiiiind of < 1209233954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to see it to 'get' it, really < 1209233955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly what i said < 1209233959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1209233972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you give me the source for upload? < 1209233974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you already? < 1209233993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209234002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess if you give me the source i could just look at that < 1209234003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll paste it < 1209234006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure it's the latest version < 1209234017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the source undersells it < 1209234018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :believe me < 1209234021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p526561254.txt < 1209234038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, i put that up in the same folder as search.php or smth, and then open it in browser? < 1209234041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally honest when i say it's the best search interface for anything i've used < 1209234049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you put that up in /pb/ < 1209234055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then go to http://vjn.fi/pb/search.php < 1209234062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and enter a regexp - for example, '^class ' < 1209234068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apply pressure to the button < 1209234082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exactly what i said? < 1209234107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1209234107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209234177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it must be in /pb/ though < 1209234182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it must be called search.php < 1209234184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise breakage < 1209234277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so it was (link_to_paste (line_number line_content separator)+ separator)+ < 1209234297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was hard tell me because..? :D < 1209234311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wait, how did you check that -- it's not on the server < 1209234312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209234317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah it is < 1209234326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how can it work, it links to search.php directly < 1209234339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i illegally changed the code so it works :| < 1209234342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1209234345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't use it before i remove it!! < 1209234348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now will you add it :P < 1209234354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plzzzz, it's awesoe < 1209234355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*awesome < 1209234365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll only use it to get the scheme and other code you've linked < 1209234367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :promise <3 < 1209234447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p435344445.txt <<< lolwat :D < 1209234486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: beats me, will you put the search up now and i'll love you forever and ever :p < 1209234491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p222552612.txt <<< this has some history related notes in finnish < 1209234504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is up, you just can't find it! :D < 1209234512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not called oko.php < 1209234514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or okosearch.php < 1209234516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or searchoko.php < 1209234547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a hint plz? :< < 1209234562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, you think the random generator in my head is that logical? < 1209234584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hint :< < 1209234600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a random set of characters < 1209234605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pronouncible < 1209234612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pronouncable < 1209234616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's not saf < 1209234617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pronouncoble < 1209234618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sadf < 1209234626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just link it :P < 1209234632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see how it works with a real data set actually < 1209234635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my little baby! < 1209234647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't find it. and no i won't link it, really, there's private stuff in there. < 1209234672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it in finnish, but i'm a very paranoid guy. make your own pastebin : D < 1209234688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i can't find the code you give to me using my own pastebin :> < 1209234692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, i gotta check what the bin contains, it seems people outside vjn are using it nowadays :| < 1209234697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: why not just leave it there for 3 minutes, sheesh ;P < 1209234705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can hardly read anything private in 3 minutes < 1209234712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, reading private things is not what us unicorns do < 1209234716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can search all. < 1209234732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you probably would, you sneaky bastard!! :D < 1209234744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no i wouldn't, sheesh, you think i care about anything personal about you? :p < 1209234774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with this, make you own pb :) < 1209234782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i can't find the code you link me with my own pb < 1209234853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you were right, it was different from what i said, you also printed the line < 1209234867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i was right then, i must be right now < 1209234867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was really a defect in my bnf, i meant to put content there < 1209234869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so link me :D < 1209234884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna see what it looks like on a data set bigger than 3 test files.. < 1209234887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, doesn't exist anymore. < 1209234891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can paste you the result. < 1209234893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find the scheme helpfully while i'm at it < 1209234901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :( alright then < 1209234906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you find the scheme? < 1209234941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p255331634.txt <<< this may be some version of it < 1209234970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep! any others there or was that it < 1209234973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p213151116.txt <<< thi too < 1209234977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and .. can you paste the search results then < 1209234977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1209234980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no other containing sch. < 1209234984 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1209234990 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209234991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, those two are identical < 1209235086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now paste the search results < 1209235089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can see my coool app < 1209235124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p234546123.txt < 1209235139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are exactly the same? you checked < 1209235140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1209235196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a glance yes < 1209235229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's not a long search < 1209235230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209235231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1209235240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my search is kinda cool right mabye you should put it up for admins only < 1209235247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then whenever i yell at you you can just do a quick search < 1209235247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1209235298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peeeeeerhaps i could, perhaps i could... but actually making it admin-only requires *some* work < 1209235324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, opening a power-point thingie now, so see you in a while -> < 1209236093 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209236565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: so you like ruby a lot - coderay sucks. what can i use? < 1209236566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pygments is great. < 1209236575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually, you know. supports languages. < 1209236796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: no? < 1209238212 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm back! < 1209238236 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultraviolet is awesome! < 1209238254 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://ultraviolet.rubyforge.org/ < 1209238365 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses TextMate-themes :) < 1209238373 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your not there right now, or? < 1209239254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1209239266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: i'd rather something that didn't use textmate-themes < 1209239270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the yare the thing that sucks about TM < 1209239270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209239279 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1209239286 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are awesome! < 1209239287 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209239305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'd rather it didn't use textmate syntax files < 1209239306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck < 1209239307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209239315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now i'm just going to shell out to pygments < 1209239371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: Oh, and feel free to tell the author of ultraviolet that hogging two-character command names is bad. < 1209239372 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what you like; I like both TM syntax + themes :P < 1209239385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for something as unimportant as a syntax highlighter < 1209239396 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the author :P < 1209239400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that abbreviating namespaces sucks highly, and that it should be 'Ultraviolet' not 'Uv' < 1209239420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: Ever seen TextMate's Haskell support? Yeeeahhh. < 1209239445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I want to shell out to emacs and somehow get HTML out of that - Since the highlighters are arbitary emacs lisp code, it handles just about everything < 1209239451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 2D languages and similar < 1209239464 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use Haskell, so I don't care about that :) < 1209239484 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it does JS, HTML, CSS and Ruby I'm fine :) < 1209239601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: I think I'll just make this expect a class with a .highlight(source) method and expect html back < 1209239604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1209239618 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1209239633 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing? < 1209239644 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something cool? :P < 1209239675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: pastebin < 1209239699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually favour python over ruby these days. But Rack is close enough to WSGI and far enough away from the ugly Ruby frameworks that I'm considering trying it out :-) < 1209239713 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rack is awesome < 1209239725 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using Rack::Request & Response too? < 1209239749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: Dunno. Should I? < 1209239758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Hash isn't very nice to play with, that's true. < 1209239771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: Also, if you like Rack you gotta give credit to ruby - it's almost a 100% rip-off of WSGI :) < 1209239840 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's probably easier to work with Req & Res than a Hash :P And I know that Rack is based on WSGI :) < 1209239849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: 'based on', heh. < 1209239862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can port wsgi apps almost 1:1 < 1209239868 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read the slides? http://chneukirchen.org/talks/euruko-2007/chneukirchen-euruko2007-introducing-rack.pdf < 1209239879 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an example of Req & Res there :) < 1209239880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't like presentations < 1209239890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like good rdocs < 1209239936 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you better look at the source... < 1209239948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: I said rdocs < 1209239950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rack.rubyforge.org/doc/ < 1209239951 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're poorly documented :( < 1209239985 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the online doc isn't updated for 0.3... < 1209239998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot how much I hate the web < 1209240000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209240087 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I find web-developement booring.. < 1209240092 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booooooring* < 1209240146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: but the output fun. < 1209240168 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1209240191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great mail I just got from nearlyfreespeech.net: "Hello, Yes. Thanks, Jeff" < 1209240236 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1209240266 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you ask about? < 1209240287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: web apps that weren't PHP or CGI < 1209240293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked if they weren't supported < 1209240316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is understandable, although they run seperate DB instances and are often faster than a VPS or similar etc they're still a shared host < 1209240328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prices are niiiice though < 1209240350 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best thing is to have your own server, though < 1209240473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: as in a literal dedi? < 1209240475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend has one of them. < 1209240509 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great for testing out things and be able to do whatever you like < 1209240542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: take a look at nearlyfreespeech.net though < 1209240545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the typical shared hosts < 1209240565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: it's charged based on your usage < 1209240570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$10=1GB < 1209240580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you get an influx of traffic it doesn't drain the bank < 1209240584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of how the system woorks < 1209240584 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic or storage? < 1209240587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: traffic < 1209240597 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds good < 1209240602 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only PHP + CGI? < 1209240612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: it IS a shared host < 1209240613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1209240617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, they support tons of cgi languages < 1209240623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12+ according to them < 1209240626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the versions appear to be recent < 1209240627 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Ruby? < 1209240636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209240639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Haskell < 1209240649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://example.nfshost.com/versions.php lists the versions for the most popular languages < 1209240670 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.8.6 isn't bad.. < 1209240712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: oh cool: < 1209240713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data Transfers (Bandwidth): Starts at $1.00 per gigabyte and goes down. < 1209240717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What does "and goes down" mean? It means that we keep track of how much bandwidth you use; the more you use, the cheaper it gets: < 1209240718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1209240731 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :übercool < 1209240781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: one of the main things they toot about it though is that they don't censor (could you guess from the name? totally suprising.) < 1209240797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice to be able to run non-PHP&non-CGI languages though < 1209240805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they're just not popular enough to warrant them doing it yet < 1209240815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, loads of the long-running process solutions are quite unstable and eat memory < 1209240821 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right now I'm fine with my own server : < 1209240822 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) * < 1209240897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: i'm with slicehost right now, so it's a vps < 1209240905 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicehost looks fine < 1209240923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't seem to be very strong proponents of the 'no censorship' maxim < 1209240934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, their TOS says non-illegal stuff, but they don't seem to make it one of their points < 1209241096 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209241105 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1209241120 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ): < 1209241123 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) * < 1209241156 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"nope, turns out I do still need a -rt kernel..." < 1209241280 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone tried Neko? < 1209241315 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neko_%28programming_language%29 < 1209241326 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209241351 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209241367 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first I've heard of it :) < 1209241382 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like php < 1209241403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: i think $ means 'primitive' < 1209241416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People seem to use http://www.haxe.org/ which compiles to Neko's VM. < 1209241514 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile to javascript.. interesting idea < 1209241558 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flash < 1209241591 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chirrp is built with haXe < 1209241600 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackety.org/2008/04/23/yourEightSecondCallingCard.html < 1209242533 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209243068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i haff a cool language in the works < 1209243071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of like oklotalk < 1209243072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not < 1209243351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: take a look < 1209243351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set '_cdr' < 1209243351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {(x i) < 1209243351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (if (== i (- (length x) 1)) < 1209243351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1209243352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (++ [(at x i)] (_cdr x (+ i 1))))}) < 1209243354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set 'cdr' < 1209243356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {(x) (_cdr x 0)}) < 1209243521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it has message sendy thingies < 1209243525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it supports any number of args < 1209243579 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209243691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: likey < 1209243692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1209243794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo < 1209243825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: all i have to do now is implement BORING THINGS like strings < 1209243829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get the actual primitives down < 1209243831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the parser < 1209243834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna help? :PPPP < 1209243841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what that code does < 1209243842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i call names 'toms' < 1209243844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geddit < 1209243844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'atom' < 1209243845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tom' < 1209243847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and < 1209243849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lisp cdr! < 1209243857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cdr [1,2,3]) -> [2,3] < 1209243863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set does what you expect < 1209243867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{(args) code} is a function < 1209243869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, duh, got i have no idea how it works < 1209243874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ is append < 1209243879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah do explain < 1209243884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which part don't you get < 1209243886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll translate to python < 1209243900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x i) <<< what's x < 1209243914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209243926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also, (at LST INDEX) < 1209243928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is LST[INDEX] < 1209243952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209243955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haff bug; < 1209243956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1209243962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't get it's {(args) (expr) (expr)...} < 1209243976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly cuz i didn't read it through and didn't see the actual cdr < 1209243979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just _cdr < 1209244006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay wait < 1209244007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look: < 1209244044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set 'drop' {(i x) (if (== i (length x)) [] (++ [(at x i)] (drop (+ i 1) x)))}) < 1209244051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set 'cdr' {(x) (drop 1 x)}) < 1209244054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: drop is like haskell drop < 1209244058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop 1 [1,2,3] => [2,3] < 1209244063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop 5 [1,2,3,4,5,6] => [6] < 1209244064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1209244070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in that case: < 1209244074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'set' is a primitive function < 1209244077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but '==' is a message < 1209244079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the other raeson was the bug < 1209244082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1209244083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'length' is a message, so is '++' < 1209244092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'drop' is a function < 1209244095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't deduce "at", because it made no sense < 1209244095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'at' is a message < 1209244098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if' is a function < 1209244101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah < 1209244108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if in (A B C ...), A is not a function < 1209244112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a Tom instead < 1209244120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we send A to B with C ... as the arguments < 1209244133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (at [1,2,3] 0) sends 'at' to [1,2,3] with arg 0 < 1209244157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exactly like oklotalk--? < 1209244167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you generalize over n args? < 1209244185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, n args < 1209244188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not exactly like oklotalk-- < 1209244193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll show you the impl < 1209244193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's different? < 1209244197 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1209244201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209244223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p463212552.txt < 1209244227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that needs to be added is < 1209244229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. more primitives < 1209244232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. more messages < 1209244232 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1209244233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. a parser < 1209244234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209244237 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1209244280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Koed(Lst): :P < 1209244322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my little homage to okoness < 1209244325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should it be okoity < 1209244329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to send "at" to an object with arg 0? < 1209244341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that received? < 1209244381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: welllll, in python (at X 0) < 1209244382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translates to < 1209244391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X.sent('at', [Num(0)]) < 1209244399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: this is done in Koed's eval < 1209244402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it :))) < 1209244439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help me < 1209244443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it received? < 1209244451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: whut do you mean < 1209244452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a 2-tuple? < 1209244457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209244458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1209244459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1209244460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1209244463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X.sent('at', [Num(0)]) < 1209244463 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you send "at", and give 0 as param < 1209244467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209244467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you receive that? < 1209244472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the functino < 1209244474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: read Koed's eval!!!! < 1209244474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function < 1209244482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1209244485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are specially handled < 1209244494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please just who me in that-language code < 1209244496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to make a message-reciever in user code < 1209244497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1209244500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209244503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209244506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will look something like this < 1209244509 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "i dunno" would've been the answer < 1209244518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recv {(msg args) ...}) < 1209244523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1209244526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as a 2-tuple < 1209244526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thans < 1209244528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1209244533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not as a 2-tuple < 1209244534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as 2 args < 1209244537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has real args, remember? < 1209244551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it gets zero args, how do you receive < 1209244552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1209244563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(msg []) < 1209244567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1209244570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one is (msg [arg]) < 1209244575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1209244575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two is (msg [arg arg]) < 1209244575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1209244580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're real arguments < 1209244581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1209244583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{(a b c) ...} < 1209244584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so special syntax for 2-tuple < 1209244588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not passed as a tuple DAMNIT < 1209244594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares? same thing < 1209244596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{(a b c) ...} < 1209244597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1209244599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (a b c) ...) < 1209244603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're real, honset-to-god args < 1209244648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see a difference < 1209244682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point wwas < 1209244683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1209244689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to get what the gist is < 1209244704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care how much you wanna emphasize the fact it's not a list < 1209244705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but it's different from ot-- < 1209244709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you agree :< < 1209244715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, it's a list, but you cannot pattern match on it with a var. < 1209244738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just a list with functionality stripped < 1209244776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah it's a bit different < 1209244787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nooo it's like scmtalk < 1209244842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function calling is pretty much always the same, you send an argument object to the function. < 1209244850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes that argument object is fixed to be a list < 1209244869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pattern matching can make a conceptual distinction between a real list, and "multiple arguments" < 1209244906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i wonder what would happen if you made a language that was integrated with pygame < 1209244906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1209244908 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209244908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okogame < 1209244911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then wrote pong in it < 1209244915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i predict asplosions < 1209244930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you said something about messages and params being separate, i thought you might have something special in mind for those, kinda like oo does with method names... but you didn't, it was a list, which is why i said "so it's a 2-tuple" or whatever i said < 1209244992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is method names < 1209244993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thingy < 1209245046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know it is, you explained about the tuple thing < 1209245055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209245062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does {(a b c) ...} workl < 1209245063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work < 1209245064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209245073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do a call (a b c d e f) and a can be called < 1209245085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what arg-tuple is a called with? < 1209245087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can be called < 1209245132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is "a" called < 1209245135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's called with (b c d e f) < 1209245138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crashes and burns :D < 1209245142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209245145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a can't be called < 1209245147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1209245151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: then it depends < 1209245152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a tom < 1209245155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we do the sendy sendy dance < 1209245156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is called with (a [c d e f]) < 1209245161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, we buhrn < 1209245161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and n < 1209245162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1209245167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :message sends are NOT CALLS < 1209245168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT NOT CALLS < 1209245176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're totally seperate < 1209245178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference? < 1209245191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions <-- things you can applyerate --> things that respond to things < 1209245216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recv {(msg args) ...}) <-- recv just lets you give it a function and it gives you a responder that just forwards it to that function < 1209245245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forwards what to that function? < 1209245256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it's called with? < 1209245259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the message and the arguments < 1209245301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so there's two kinds of things which can be sent stuff, functions, which are called, and ***'s, which are sent messages? < 1209245315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1209245321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1209245325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the ***s native tounge is python < 1209245328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at def sent() < 1209245343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually, here's one way to put it < 1209245346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you do {...} < 1209245353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get a *** that responds to only one message: apply < 1209245365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the arguments you give with that message are passed to the code block. < 1209245372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and that's *actually how it's implemented* < 1209245372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209245378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({...} b c) < 1209245379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1209245385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apply {...} b c) < 1209245391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in python: < 1209245399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({...} b c) -> {...}.sent('apply', [b,c]) < 1209245404 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1209245406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) -> a.sent(b, [c]) < 1209245408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1209245410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b.send(a, [c]) < 1209245424 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209245428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case a is... what? < 1209245432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209245435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209245440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209245449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1209245499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, functions need to be called as the first param, in message passing you have to have the object that receives the message as the second param < 1209245511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209245527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... but .... < 1209245544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is, what's the difference between a function and a thing that receives a message, syntactically < 1209245599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay: < 1209245604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say {...} i mean 'some function' < 1209245609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say 'foo' i mean 'some atom' < 1209245614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i say '?' i mean 'something else' < 1209245619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's how it translates into python: < 1209245627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({...} b c) -> {...}.sent('apply', [b,c]) < 1209245638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo b c) -> b.sent('foo', [c]) < 1209245645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this < 1209245645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo b c d) -> b.sent('foo', [c,d]) < 1209245652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(? ...) -> ERRORERRORERROR < 1209245688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, what might b be? < 1209245703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is sent "foo", [c,d] < 1209245711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: b is a recevier < 1209245715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1209245718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1209245721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: umm < 1209245722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a receiver < 1209245727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the difference between a function and a thing that receives a message? < 1209245739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b can't be a function? < 1209245739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one's a function and the other is a thing that receives a message.. < 1209245750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, functions are receivers that only respond to 'apply' < 1209245753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ({...} b c) -> {...}.sent('apply', [b,c]) < 1209245753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (foo b c) -> b.sent('foo', [c]) < 1209245755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with those < 1209245756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can see < 1209245756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1209245763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apply {...} b c) -> {...}.sent('apply',[b,c]) < 1209245770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you'll notice is the same as the first rule < 1209245778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and look at the code for 'Func' < 1209245782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please just tell me what the fuck a receiver is, THE WORD ITSELF DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING < 1209245785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the response to 'apply' is to do a normal function call < 1209245789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... read the goddamn code < 1209245799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an abstract concept < 1209245799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1209245802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. if you can't explain this, i'm going to sleep < 1209245807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1209245813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me an example, perhaps? < 1209245824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1209245863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i can't. < 1209245865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read it. < 1209245869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only 100 lines of trivial code < 1209245907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def sent(self, name, args): < 1209245907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if name == '++': < 1209245907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return self._oppy(lambda a,b: a+b, '++', args) < 1209245910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i opened it < 1209245914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems b can be a list < 1209245916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this correct? < 1209245937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well err < 1209245940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just in Lst < 1209245949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the code for adding two Lsts < 1209245951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: see _oppy < 1209245953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a little helper < 1209245956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it cannot be a list? < 1209245958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1209245962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weoprkopfkopfkeorjoiwejfiojfifgjerlg < 1209245963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ THE CODE < 1209245977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209245987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are saying you cannot give an example what b could be < 1209245993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i can < 1209245995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a Lst. < 1209245997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read _oppy < 1209245999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1209246000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ _OPPY < 1209246001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it seems if b is a list, it can handle the message ++ < 1209246007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you expect to understand it if you don't READ _OPPY < 1209246079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems ++ would append a list to a list < 1209246088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see what use reading _oppy was < 1209246119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because you were asking about ++ < 1209246127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, is (++ [1 2] [3 4]) correct? < 1209246132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> [1 2 3 4] < 1209246135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: err, of course it is < 1209246137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it be < 1209246151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in (a b c), when a is an atom, and b is sent a message, b can be a list? < 1209246159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: b can be ANYTHING < 1209246175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING responds to .sent, but if you send something silly it goes 'i can't handle this' and throws an error < 1209246179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:36…   oklopol: please just tell me what the fuck a receiver is, THE WORD ITSELF DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING < 1209246181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is hard to understand < 1209246187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209246191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ITISANABSTRACTCONCEPT < 1209246203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't you just say it's an object? < 1209246211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1209246213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abstract concept with no meaning < 1209246215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nothing. < 1209246219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't resemble an object < 1209246221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a THING < 1209246224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209246224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can get a message < 1209246228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example of it is a list < 1209246244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or a function < 1209246246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a number < 1209246247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a string < 1209246248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a bit contradictory, because you said at some point you cannot give an example of it < 1209246249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an atom < 1209246257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an error < 1209246261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING is a receiver < 1209246265 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209246272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:36… oklopol: can you give me an example, perhaps? < 1209246272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:36… oklopol: basically < 1209246272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:37… ehird: oklopol: i can't. < 1209246276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed nothing is. < 1209246279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sofar < 1209246288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: look at Obj < 1209246290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a sent method < 1209246291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case i would've assumed the answer "nothing yet" < 1209246294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo everything is a receiver < 1209246308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ 1 2) ends up with Num's sent being called < 1209246312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses _oppy < 1209246314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say something, i assume it overrides the code. < 1209246318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_oppy handles a lisp-style variadic < 1209246325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give it a lambda of two args < 1209246328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very annoying to make me read tons of code over something trivial. < 1209246330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it unwraps your value < 1209246332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first args value < 1209246335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wraps the result of that < 1209246336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons = over 2 lines < 1209246339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then recurses with the rest of the args on that result < 1209246345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (+ 1 2 3) works < 1209246349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends up being (+ (+ 1 2) 3) < 1209246351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to _oppy < 1209246427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but this is irrelevant, so, how do functions pmatch on calls, and how on messages? < 1209246443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] for calls, and (atm, [...]) for messages? < 1209246444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no pattern matching < 1209246453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and..... FUNCTIONS CANNOT BE USED AS RECEIVERS < 1209246455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209246455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1209246458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{...} will accept ONE message < 1209246459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'apply' < 1209246467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does what you expect. applies the function to the arguments given < 1209246468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: BUT < 1209246471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recv {...}) < 1209246472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1209246473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a receiver < 1209246477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which when sent a message < 1209246481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said a function can be a receiver. < 1209246481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calls the function given with (msg args) < 1209246484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT CAN < 1209246487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT ONLY WITH ONE MESSAGE < 1209246491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: READ FUNC'S .SENT() < 1209246492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and..... FUNCTIONS CANNOT BE USED AS RECEIVERS < 1209246495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT CAN < 1209246495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1209246497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT JEEZ < 1209246502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READFUNC'S.SENT()READFUNC'S.SENT()READFUNC'S.SENT()READFUNC'S.SENT() < 1209246516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : def sent(self, name, args): < 1209246516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if name == 'apply': < 1209246517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1209246518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1209246529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: SO IT RESPONDS to one fixed message: APPLY, which does function application < 1209246533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR OWN RECEIVER < 1209246535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a heper function < 1209246537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recv {...}) < 1209246542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a receiver < 1209246550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which when sent the message M with args A < 1209246553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calls the function with (M A) < 1209246639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "b can be anything but a function that has not been wrapped with recv"? would've been the answer to "oklopol: in this case, what might b be?" < 1209246647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-? < 1209246660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1209246662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a function < 1209246667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't receive the message or whatever < 1209246667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1209246673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just error out, unless you're sending it 'apply' < 1209246680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the function class responds to 'apply' < 1209246682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "can be anything" would've been the answer < 1209246682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for function application < 1209246693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in ({...} ...) it sends apply to {...} < 1209246701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is a receiver" means: "it is whatever b is in that situation" < 1209246703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, but {...} by itself is not useful if you want to make a receiver for yourself < 1209246709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recv helps < 1209246721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there other ways? < 1209246782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah .. write a python subclass of Obj < 1209246789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and override .sent(name, args) < 1209246790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-))) < 1209246796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all i wanted was an answer to that question, you are a bit hard to get stuff out of, sometimes < 1209246798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209246799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(name will be a string, args a list of Obj subclasses of some kind) < 1209246801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rright. < 1209246826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the use of this distinction is? < 1209246851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact you cannot just use a function for any message < 1209246858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because...that's not what a function is < 1209246872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i guess there doesn't have to be a reason < 1209246894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it wouldn't make sense, or something < 1209246894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209246906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: a function is something that has a lexical closure and takes some arguments, runs some code, and returns something < 1209246921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a receiver is just something that will give you something if you give it a message name and a list of objects < 1209246921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209246922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm assuming these method-call like things where you send the atom name and args separately are used for making objects? < 1209246945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the swapping of the first two args is just so that you can use lisp-style prefix syntax < 1209246951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(length x) instead of (x length) etc < 1209246981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? i thought it was for message passing < 1209246984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209246988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: welllll < 1209246988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1209246991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get to the bottom of this < 1209246994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll explain it simply < 1209246995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1209246998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget about functions < 1209247002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1209247020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b ...) means 'send the message b to a, with the arguments ....' < 1209247021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1209247027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b and a and all the args are evaluated < 1209247032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209247036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a special case < 1209247036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209247038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b ...) is like < 1209247041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do understand it already, it's just i don't see why you're making the distinction between calling and message passing, i'm assuming message passing is for objects, but you said it's not like that < 1209247046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm assuming you just do it for fun? < 1209247047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b.sent('a', ...) < 1209247052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I SAID FORGET ABOUT FUNCTIONS < 1209247056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1209247060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you stop talking about functions i can't explain it properly < 1209247066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do you get the evaluation strategy so far, oklopol? < 1209247073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just send something a message. < 1209247087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, that's just things getting a name and some stuff and doing some stuff. < 1209247094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: important - THEY DON'T HAVE LEXICAL CLOSURE < 1209247100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no concept of closure < 1209247101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or body < 1209247104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1209247105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're opaque < 1209247126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now, say we want functions -- which are things which remember their env as a closure, have a func body which is run through, ETC < 1209247129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's the difference, why didn't you say so? < 1209247130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some special syntax < 1209247132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{argspec ...} < 1209247134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209247136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different scoping. < 1209247138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do we represent that as a receiver? < 1209247140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: URHGHGHGGHHGHGHGHg < 1209247142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO!!!!!!! < 1209247145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1209247148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bangs head against wall
< 1209247150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anuway < 1209247159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: receivers and functions HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION WHATSOEVER < 1209247169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: (a b ...) means 'send the message b to a, with the arguments ....' <<< i thought a is called with ('apply', [b ...]) < 1209247185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: FORGETABOUTGODDAMNFUNCTIONSJESUSCHRIST < 1209247189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONSFORGETABOUTFUNCTIONS < 1209247209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1209247228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay < 1209247228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1209247234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget everything i've said about the application < 1209247234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1209247236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b ...) < 1209247237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means < 1209247252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x = evaluate a; y = evaluate b; evaluate all of ...' < 1209247260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'send y to x with the arguments ...' < 1209247264 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209247269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1209247272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the ONLY propery about x is that it'll happily take a message name and some arguments < 1209247274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give you a value < 1209247278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*property < 1209247288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing relating to function bodies, scoping... ANYTHING specified in it < 1209247290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok? < 1209247293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1209247300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, let's say that we want functions in this language < 1209247306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will we represent that as a receiver? < 1209247306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1209247311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could respond to a message like 'apply' < 1209247316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give the function the arguments we get < 1209247321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1209247328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, now let's say we want to make our own special receivers < 1209247337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, we can just pass the message name and arguments to a function! < 1209247345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we need a function that takes a function and gives us a receiver < 1209247350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recv {(message args) ...}) < 1209247354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok. got it now? < 1209247413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1209247414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1209247431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: (a b ...) means 'send the message b to a, with the arguments .... <<< i don't see this in code < 1209247445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: elif func.tag() == 'tom': < 1209247446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return args[0].sent(func.val, args[1:]) < 1209247448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can't read. < 1209247452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(func is a bad name) < 1209247456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(func is just the first argument, evaluated) < 1209247467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1209247473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that send the message a to b? < 1209247475 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209247497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: func is the first argument < 1209247499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) < 1209247502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func = a, evaluated < 1209247506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :args = [b,c] evaluated < 1209247523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a is sent to b, with arg c? < 1209247547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1209247548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with args [c] < 1209247553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c d) would be with args [c,d] < 1209247563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the point < 1209247573 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: (a b ...) means 'send the message b to a, with the arguments .... <<< so you mixed a and b? < 1209247582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1209247583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i did < 1209247585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1209247604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, well, you didn't provide me any new information, but you did confuse me a bit. < 1209247609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it all now < 1209247613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yayyy :P < 1209247623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do you see that this lang != ot-- < 1209247623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209247632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1209247633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1209247664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i was originally trying to ask < 1209247664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1209247675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209247735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was "why do you separate between a receiver and a function, why not just have a function?" < 1209247745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both take a list of args, and return a result < 1209247762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, scoping makes a difference < 1209247774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: looks like you didn't read what i said! < 1209247777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did get it, it's just i didn't see what the use was. < 1209247779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoping isn't ASKJDHJKASDHKLSJDH relevant < 1209247781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdjoiasdjoidfujoidsfgjsiofgjsofgijsodig < 1209247784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is < 1209247786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCOPING IS JUST NOT ANYTING IN IT < 1209247788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn it < 1209247794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209247797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is such a bunch of crap, i've explained it so many god damn times < 1209247801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you haven't listened once < 1209247803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1209247808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have understood it all along < 1209247815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1209247817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't < 1209247821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it was "why do you separate between a receiver and a function, why not just have a function?" < 1209247821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : both take a list of args, and return a result < 1209247821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but, scoping makes a difference < 1209247822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shows it < 1209247878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asd. < 1209247906 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like you've been misunderstanding each other for over an hour. < 1209247914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: tell me about it < 1209248022 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about, anyway? < 1209248053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird's language < 1209248091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in ~30m < 1209248223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the fact a function only takes "apply" as the first arg separates whatever conceptual functions you have into two groups, ones that are called (func arg ...) and (atom receiver arg ...), i just don't see what the reason is. < 1209248258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :receiver can also be called as (receiver arg ...), in which case it is told with the "apply" atom that it is used as a function < 1209248266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a message-receiver < 1209248276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you haven't said why, that's all i've been asking < 1209248341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i'm off to sleep, i'll read the spec if you finish this, so i can explain to you why you did all this. < 1209248342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1209248477 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209248545 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1209248679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh as if i could sleep after being told i still don't get it < 1209248741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i have to read the code < 1209248871 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209248991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you think i didn't understand that a function is a special case of a receiver, because i asked why you had both? i was just wondering why not have a function be a normal receiver. < 1209249219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case the second sentence showed i didn't get it, why exactly? "both take a list of args, and return a result" isn't this entirely true? first takes the list [atom args], second takes just args, if the atom is "apply", otherwise fails < 1209249225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are both conceptually functions. < 1209249229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they take stuff, and return stuff < 1209249322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"scoping makes a difference" <<< this was the only thing resembling an explanation, i first assumed it might be you wanted receivers to be more like objects, and conceptually differentiate between them and functions... but apparently that was completely wrong too < 1209249353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:55… oklopol: i'm assuming these method-call like things where you send the atom name and args separately are used for making objects? < 1209249354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:55… ehird: :) < 1209249359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you didn't say no < 1209249361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209249483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, hopefully you return soon, and are willing to explain this to me all night long < 1209249580 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, looks like a function is a type of receiver, and functions and receivers are effectively the same thing. < 1209249589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1209249610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently, saying so shows one has no idea how all this works. < 1209249646 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can transform a function that does a certain thing when called with certain arguments into a receiver that does the same thing when sent the same arguments, and vice versa, and it doesn't look all cluttered, functions and receivers are the same thing. < 1209249660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly. < 1209249676 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a difference, it will be difficult to express one or the other, and ehird will be able to give you an example of it. < 1209249683 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1209249701 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that he was able, not that he should. < 1209249701 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209249725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, took me ten minutes to get the fact a list can be a receiver out of him. < 1209249743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be a bit harder < 1209249801 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you really want to know, if you have to do that to find out? < 1209249814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot sleep if i don't know. < 1209249818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really. < 1209249845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have my reasons for not being all that good at leaving irc. < 1209249847 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He said to read the code, yes? Where is the code? < 1209249854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p463212552.txt < 1209249873 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209250118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a thing called an Obj, and it has a val that's set when created, and I assume that __repr__ and __str__ are just for display and all, and its tag is 'obj', and it can't be eval'd, and I'll get to _oppy later, and if you try to send it a message, you get an "unhandled message" error. < 1209250193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1209250237 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you _oppy an object, its value and the first argument are "added", then self.__class__(the "sum") is sent the message with the rest of the arguments. < 1209250245 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's __class__? < 1209250286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :containing class < 1209250288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209250295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the class the object is instance of < 1209250335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1209250348 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does op() do? < 1209250349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, that call to it is changing the primitive object back into an object of ehird's creation < 1209250357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :receiver can also be called as (receiver arg ...), in which case it is told with the "apply" atom that it is used as a function < 1209250358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1209250362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only applies if it is actually a real function < 1209250386 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1209250387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209250416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a clear distinction between receiver and function, yet both these are conceptually functions, and yet you don't have two kinds of conceptual functions? < 1209250417 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's an argument. < 1209250453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they're nt both conceptually functions < 1209250454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209250462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: oppy is quite complex < 1209250465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are a number 1 < 1209250467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're told to '+' < 1209250469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with [2,3,4] < 1209250471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: oppy does exactly what you said < 1209250472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1209250474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the underlying function < 1209250476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is basically < 1209250477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x,y: x=y < 1209250478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209250479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+y < 1209250480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1209250483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1209250485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x and y are wrapped in the .vals < 1209250494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so _oppy does the unwrapping/rewrapping required < 1209250497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then recurses < 1209250499 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must you split your sentences over so many lines? < 1209250500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can do variadicness < 1209250506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: stream of conciousness. :) < 1209250517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sentences are lazily loaded < 1209250521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i write the first part, and then the rest < 1209250525 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should find a way to get my client to concatenate them. < 1209250531 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is a receiver not conceptually a function? < 1209250539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's just ... not :< < 1209250546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it takes a message, and an arg, and returns something < 1209250553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is a function. < 1209250555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just not the asme thing < 1209250555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1209250559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1209250579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you leave it at that, i'll assume you have no idea yourself, and go to sleep < 1209250584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nope < 1209250584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do < 1209250584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that case? < 1209250586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1209250588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've tried to explain < 1209250589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1209250591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently my methods of explanation suck < 1209250602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: anyway oppy is just an internal helper < 1209250604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo the unerscore < 1209250605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*under < 1209250618 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you _oppy stuff with an operation, and when you _oppy a vanilla Obj, the operation is performed on the Obj and the first argument, and then... yeah. < 1209250630 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is fairly easy to tell me why it's not a function, just tell me what separates it from a function < 1209250631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: on the obj's VALUE < 1209250635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first arguments value < 1209250645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it unwraps the values, passes it to the operation, wraps it again < 1209250654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then that wrapped thing is told to do the same thing with the rest of the args < 1209250655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the only difference is name, then you don't know what "conceptual" means < 1209250662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's hard to explain! < 1209250676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1209250679 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1209250707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: so < 1209250709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ 1 2 3) < 1209250710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: how did you not get that, you explained it earlier in your own words? < 1209250713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is told to + with [2,3] < 1209250718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we unwrap the python int inside the 1 object < 1209250720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with 2 < 1209250723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pass it to the python-int-adder < 1209250724 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I didn't know what op was, I suppose. < 1209250728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wrap it into a number object again < 1209250732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we have 3 < 1209250735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we tell 3 to + with [3] < 1209250741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does the same thing, but then we run out of args < 1209250743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we stop < 1209250774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you did say it's used to make a sum, perhaps you didn't know the sum was made with folding the lambda < 1209250786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's kinda folding yeah < 1209250795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's used for variadic division too < 1209250801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and variadic list concatenation < 1209250816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so not folding, or not sum? < 1209250824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1209250855 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you send + with no arguments to a number, you get the number; if you send - with no arguments to a number, you get its opposite. If you send an arithmetic operation with arguments to a number, you get fancy folding. < 1209250872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Left-associative folding, I assume. < 1209250873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: exactly < 1209250880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1209250881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: it's just so (+ 1 2 3) works < 1209250884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make it do < 1209250889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num(self.val + args[0].val) < 1209250894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wouldn't be as nice < 1209250919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is a receiver conceptually not a function?? < 1209250921 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you have Toms, which are cute, I guess. < 1209250933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Toms are atoms < 1209250935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just names < 1209250938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'A tom' < 1209250971 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's nice. < 1209251010 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that link, http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p463212552.txt, is all there is to it? < 1209251042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: It needs primitives, more messages, and a parser! < 1209251043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. < 1209251045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all there is to it. < 1209251070 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Toms are applicable. < 1209251097 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209251103 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are Koeds the result of parsing stuff like (+ 1 2 3)? < 1209251118 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does sound like "code". < 1209251132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means code < 1209251193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Toms are only applicable because they're what we send off to receivers < 1209251193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1209251201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koed is "code", yeah. < 1209251206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like skoep is the skope < 1209251207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scope < 1209251213 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you send apply to a Func, something I didn't feel like reading happens. I presume the Func is applied. < 1209251223 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, scope. Cool. < 1209251308 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Prim is some wacky little thing. < 1209251328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Prim is for primitive functions. < 1209251339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Builtins, if you will. < 1209251348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is a receiver conceptually not a function?? < 1209251357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how is a receiver conceptually not a function?? < 1209251377 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, everything's a receiver, and receivers are an odd way of making (+ 1 2 3)... do what it does. < 1209251403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: asking me? < 1209251409 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you send 1 the message + with the arguments 2 and 3 rather than calling + with the arguments 1, 2 and 3, but I guess skoep has something to do with it. < 1209251417 0 :Judofyr__!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209251421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Because ... that would just be functions. < 1209251423 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all three of us are right. Happy ending! < 1209251447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that's the distinction between functions and receivers that no one understands. < 1209251476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. < 1209251479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1209251481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck < 1209251488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not gonna sleep tonight, am i? < 1209251503 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can convert a receiver into a function easily enough. I think the set of receivers, though, is finite and unchanging and all. < 1209251542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would not make them not conceptually functions, though < 1209251552 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Receivers are conceptually functions. < 1209251555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they? < 1209251562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird has clearly stated they aren't. < 1209251562 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From my reading of it, yes. < 1209251574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i assume he's *wrong*, and go to sleep? < 1209251581 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when you see (+ 1 2 3) and are told that it adds 1, 2 and 3, do you think of 1 as being the function here? < 1209251597 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the receiver, because ehird wanted it to be implemented that way for some reason. < 1209251610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i know that, the idea is from oklotalk < 1209251635 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, conceptually, a function takes something, and returns something, ehird says receivers aren't conceptually functions, yet do exactly this < 1209251642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find this a bit weird. < 1209251655 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think how in (+ 1 2 3), 1 doesn't seem like a function is the limit to how receivers aren't conceptually functions. < 1209251686 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that 1 isn't "conceptually" a function, receivers aren't "conceptually" functions. If that 1 is "conceptually" a function, receivers are "conceptually" functions. < 1209251697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209251803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, receivers and functions are separate in that receivers are *objects*, they take a method name, the atom, and dispatch primarily on that < 1209251822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still function. < 1209251836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1209251843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i've been asking is "why the distinction?" < 1209251856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no specific reason" is fine < 1209251863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "you just don't get it, idiot" is not. < 1209251866 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is kind of a reason. < 1209251878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellll < 1209251883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like how oko can't be explained < 1209251886 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, treated as a receiver, is what it is. 1, treated as a function, is junk. < 1209251887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently when you explain it < 1209251889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody understands :) < 1209251917 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function, when treated as a receiver, needs "apply" to do anything meaningful. A function, when treated as a function, is just that. < 1209251947 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hi! Do you want me to be a number or a function today?" < 1209251978 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The message you're sending: "Be a function. Take these arguments." < 1209251978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wellll no ihope < 1209251979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, receivers are objects, that's what objects are, functions that are used as data, and who are always called with an atom as the "message" < 1209251983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function is just a receiver < 1209251991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some sugar for sending a certain message - apply < 1209251992 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sounds about right. < 1209252010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion too, but ehird hasn't said that, so i'm assuming it's wrong < 1209252022 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, I agree with you. < 1209252042 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like ehird is trying to convince you that his way of looking at it is the correct one. < 1209252045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if they were, if the object 1 has an input->output interface with no side-effects, it is a function, conceptually. < 1209252052 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1209252110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conceptual example: a number should be a receiver, but the identity function a..well,function < 1209252116 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1209252144 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a receiver that returns its message is impossible? < 1209252158 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just discouraged? < 1209252186 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's impossible, I assume that's because messages aren't objects. < 1209252194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: distinction between data and functions, no problem, except 1 still has a function interface, right? < 1209252208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So a receiver that returns its message is impossible? < 1209252210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not impossible < 1209252217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but .... nonsensical < 1209252225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1209252227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is only a receiver < 1209252291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people should, by convention, use receivers for data and functions for functions, but they are jsut two types of functions called differently? < 1209252296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1209252391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooot really ... i mean everything is a func [see LC] < 1209252410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is not a function. you've said receivers aren't functions < 1209252420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: everything in the world is a function < 1209252422 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1209252423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lambda calculus proved this < 1209252424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1209252439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing in any TC language you cannot express as a function. < 1209252458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so everything in the world is a function? < 1209252468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, everything in the world is an iota combinator? < 1209252474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1209252490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha < 1209252512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function is a set of pairs (a, b), where no two pairs exist with the same a < 1209252524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you use it by giving it an a and getting a b out < 1209252529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: btw - how do you have a zeroadic message? < 1209252531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) < 1209252533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a can only be a function < 1209252537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's nothing to send a to < 1209252562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's a function with just the one pair (() result) < 1209252584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but it can't be a messagesend to a receiver < 1209252596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so recv sends != funcalls < 1209252599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1209252623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IO a, IO b) pairs if you have side-effects, no prob for functions < 1209252629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO being the state of the world < 1209252655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different definitino of function < 1209252657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*definition < 1209252660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1209252669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that IO thing, same definition, ofc < 1209252700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that is a syntactic thing < 1209252706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) can mean "send nothing to a" < 1209252718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, message comes first oklopol < 1209252735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'nothing' cant be sent < 1209252744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they already had syntactic differences < 1209252749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck does this change anything? < 1209252799 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I advise you to stop listening to ehird. < 1209252809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: :( < 1209252815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that might be good for my mental health < 1209252852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately my mental health is already in bad enough shape for me to be quite unable to do that. < 1209252859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209252872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate that once, in an appropriate way. < 1209252885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1209252887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donät < 1209252890 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i'm tired < 1209252896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's time to do a sleep < 1209252896 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what would happen if you just went to bed? < 1209252929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right now, i prolly would fall asleep. < 1209252941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm starting to feel i *did* get it all along < 1209252943 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep, then; you're tired. :-) < 1209252948 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're right. < 1209252956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a direct order? < 1209252971 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1209252979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't really have a choice then! < 1209252981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nighty nigt! < 1209252984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*night < 1209252985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1209252986 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you don't get to bed, fancy serotonin things will yell at you. < 1209252989 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night :-) < 1209253580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way i'm gonna fall asleep :P i really should see a shrink or something, perhaps time to continue my reading < 1209253674 0 :evincarofautumn!n=chatzill@WPIS-64-140-228-142.tnt2.modem.worldpath.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1209253704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincarofautumn: i hate you! (but don't worry, it's not real hate) < 1209253705 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello all. < 1209253709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1209253711 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang. < 1209253714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recall that attractor idea < 1209253720 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best. Greeting. Ever. < 1209253723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1209253723 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! < 1209253725 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way. < 1209253730 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already started a spec. < 1209253741 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm doing a reference interpreter in-- < 1209253743 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get this < 1209253747 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--QuickBASIC. < 1209253749 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes sir. < 1209253754 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like abusing myself. < 1209253755 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorays < 1209253758 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And others, matter of fact. < 1209253770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincarofautumn: Wow -- you split sentences up MORE THAN ME! < 1209253771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my idea was about graphs... but the concept of a moving attractor was gotten from you :D < 1209253781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic <3 < 1209253798 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not moving, perhaps more like jumping < 1209253806 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird--We make eso langs. We should have eso speech. < 1209253834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincarofautumn: I quite like the Queen's English, thanks. < 1209253857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a few esoteric natural language stubs < 1209253861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conlang < 1209253918 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conlangs are great. < 1209253929 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on an ideographic system for English recently. < 1209253934 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst idea ever, I might add. < 1209253938 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not built for it. < 1209254001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideographic = phonetic? < 1209254003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuzzit < 1209254048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do that attractor thing btw, what path is used to get to the attractor? < 1209254050 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each character represents an idea, carrying with it one or more pronunciations. < 1209254055 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like...japanese kanji. < 1209254058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1209254063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i see < 1209254070 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol--Oh, it just increments the x and y each execution frame. < 1209254101 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Or decrements, as the case may be. < 1209254109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so first diagonally, then horizontall-/vertically < 1209254163 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um...no? < 1209254174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found all possible movement in n dimensions a bit clumsy, except for real numbers, for which it's just too hard, so i went for graphs < 1209254177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1209254189 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x and y movement are independent... < 1209254197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1209254202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me get this straight < 1209254209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a set number of dimensinos < 1209254213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dimensions < 1209254230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, each point is identified by a vector giving coordinates < 1209254236 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if attractor-x > thread-x then thread-x++ < 1209254241 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kind of thing. < 1209254241 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessir. < 1209254248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are attractors < 1209254249 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1209254269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are turtles < 1209254272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving towards them < 1209254291 0 :evincarofautumn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. When a turtle walks over a command character, it executes it. < 1209254295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1209254296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1209254304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say the turtle is at (0, 0) < 1209254311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the attractor is at (5, 10) < 1209254315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the turte do? < 1209254319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*turtle < 1209254359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move first through n in [1..5]: (n, n) < 1209254361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1209254368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5, [6, 10]) < 1209254370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1209254375 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5, [6...10]) < 1209254388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n in [6...10]: (5, n) in my earlier notation