←2008-04-26 2008-04-27 2008-04-28→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:00:10 <oklopol> where [a..b] is a range from a to b, inclusive in both ends
00:00:25 <oklopol> amirite?
00:00:39 <oklopol> and, well, am i making any sense?
00:01:05 <oklopol> i did just invent a random notation on the fly, if it's incomprehensible, do tell me
00:04:37 <evincarofautumn> No, I get it.
00:04:52 <evincarofautumn> The x and y are both changed each frame.
00:05:11 <evincarofautumn> So it would go (0, 0), (1, 1), (2, 2), ... (5, 6), (5, 7), (5, 8)
00:05:14 <evincarofautumn> etc.
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00:06:02 <oklopol> oklopol: okay, so first diagonally, then horizontall-/vertically <<< can you reaffirm this was not correct after saying that?
00:08:31 <oklopol> i guess that's mostly a reality-check, i'm feeling a bit insecure atm.
00:08:49 <ehird> oklopol: so ... let's stop arguing
00:09:45 <oklopol> didn't we already stop? :D
00:09:45 <evincarofautumn> Yes, I was just misunderstanding you.
00:09:48 <evincarofautumn> Heh.
00:09:49 <oklopol> okay
00:10:22 <oklopol> can you tell me about the commands?
00:10:49 <evincarofautumn> Just a moment, please. I'm reviewing some college stuff. ^_^
00:11:28 <oklopol> i was thinking something massive that fucks up the whole graph, for the commands in the nodes, and preferably the same action for all nodes
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00:12:27 <oklopol> shortest path in my case is the shortest path within the graph, in case many are the same length, any of them may be chosen
00:13:35 <ehird> evincarofautumn: there's something wrong with your eyes and mouth
00:13:54 <oklopol> save that for when he joins next time!
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00:17:29 <ehird> oklopol: he's still here
00:17:39 <evincarofautumn> Pseudo-so.
00:17:45 <evincarofautumn> I'm distracted.
00:17:47 <evincarofautumn> Just a moment.
00:17:48 <oklopol> i know i know, that joke was partly for him too
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00:26:47 <evincarofautumn> Okay.
00:26:51 <evincarofautumn> Let's do this, yo.
00:27:06 <evincarofautumn> And yes, my eyes and mouth have become suspiciously Japanese all o' sudden.
00:27:14 <evincarofautumn> Anyhow.
00:27:15 <evincarofautumn> Commands!
00:28:28 <evincarofautumn> Each thread has only one associated attractor. I think I may not have made that clear.
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00:28:57 <evincarofautumn> So I'm thinking something along the lines of...
00:29:17 <evincarofautumn> increase attractor jump size, jump attractor up/down/left/right,
00:30:09 <oklopol> almost good.
00:30:22 <evincarofautumn> fork thread (forking creates a new attractor for the new thread at the opposite position on the graph)
00:30:31 <oklopol> but, you need to be able to create new command nodes
00:30:43 <oklopol> node being a position
00:30:45 <evincarofautumn> ?
00:30:48 <oklopol> i mean
00:31:00 <oklopol> at the end of program, there are commands at certain positions
00:31:04 <oklopol> you need to be able to add those
00:31:33 <evincarofautumn> I don't quite follow...
00:31:40 <oklopol> oh
00:31:41 <oklopol> shit
00:31:48 <oklopol> at the beginning of program, there are commands at certain positions
00:32:01 <oklopol> you need to be able to add more of those, during evaluation
00:32:01 <evincarofautumn> Yes...
00:32:12 <evincarofautumn> I'm getting there.
00:32:15 <oklopol> i'm assuming infinite grid?
00:32:17 <oklopol> oh.
00:32:17 <oklopol> right
00:32:45 <evincarofautumn> No, toroidal, with the initial size determined by the maximum line width of the source / number of lines of source.
00:32:58 <oklopol> finite number of cells?
00:33:52 <evincarofautumn> Yeah. But unlimited in terms of what the programmer can request.
00:33:58 <evincarofautumn> Program space is data space.
00:34:12 <oklopol> well, is it extendable @ runtime?
00:34:15 <evincarofautumn> I was thinking of having a stack for inter-thread communication.
00:34:26 <evincarofautumn> Nah. That makes it too easy.
00:34:41 <oklopol> umm no it doesn't, just makes it computationally interesting
00:35:26 <revcompgeek> queues would make more sense for communication
00:35:38 <revcompgeek> which means that a stack would be better for an esoteric language
00:35:49 <oklopol> if it's finite, it can be interesting, but usually finite stuff that is interesting is infinite stuff with an arbitrary limit
00:36:20 <evincarofautumn> The limit _is_ arbitrary. It's programmer-defined.
00:36:35 <oklopol> why not just have it infinite?
00:37:42 <oklopol> if you limit it to be finite, i'm afraid the language itself will become limited
00:37:58 <evincarofautumn> But then you can't have it wrap around.
00:38:00 <ehird> everything finite sucks.
00:38:02 <ehird> ^ truth
00:38:06 <ehird> evincarofautumn: yes you can
00:38:09 <ehird> 0 - 1 = infinity
00:38:10 <evincarofautumn> I like the idea of tangly loopy crazy thread interaction.
00:38:11 <ehird> figure that one out
00:38:12 <ehird> ;)
00:38:39 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: have n dimensions, where m of them wrap
00:38:42 <oklopol> or, just 2?
00:39:07 <oklopol> then 1 infinite, one wrapping
00:39:29 <oklopol> also easier to visualize than whole wrapping, which doesn't have a 3d form.
00:40:01 <oklopol> ehird: that works for real coordinate movement quite well, but he's doing discrete
00:40:50 <oklopol> i found mostly real + graphs interesting with attractors, because in other cases "shortest path" needs to be a hack of some sort
00:41:01 <oklopol> but as i said, reals are a bit complicated
00:41:21 <evincarofautumn> Hm. I like my graph quantized.
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00:41:43 <evincarofautumn> I like 2 dimensions, 2 wrapping. Then it's standard-issue fungery.
00:41:56 <oklopol> well you can have funge-style wrapping.
00:42:09 <oklopol> infinite + wrapping, that is.
00:42:15 <evincarofautumn> Argh.
00:42:20 <evincarofautumn> I really don't get how that's useful.
00:42:30 <revcompgeek> its not
00:42:33 <revcompgeek> that is the point
00:42:43 <oklopol> because if it's finite, it's harder to tell you why you need to be able to extend command space
00:42:46 <revcompgeek> esoteric languages aren't meant to be useful
00:43:01 <oklopol> and by command space, i mean the set of program cells that contain commands
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00:43:30 <oklopol> revcompgeek: no, they're meant to be *interesting*, infiniteness has nothing to do with usefulness, it's about being interesting
00:43:32 <evincarofautumn> Yeah, but I want the finite restriction to be a mark of the program's elegance, of how tiny it can be made to work.
00:43:49 <revcompgeek> oklopol: exacly!
00:43:58 <revcompgeek> s/exacly/exactly/
00:44:09 <oklopol> revcompgeek: i was trying to explain why you were wrong :)
00:44:14 <oklopol> oh
00:44:15 <evincarofautumn> If you can get a hello world or a cat working in 2 lines of 5 chars instead of 25 lines of 80, then there's something to be said for the beauty of your code.
00:44:15 <oklopol> sorry
00:44:16 <oklopol> :)
00:44:43 <evincarofautumn> Besides, we haven't even talked about how this is supposed to be a threaded language.
00:45:20 <revcompgeek> evincarofautumn said that he doesn't get how that is useful and i was saying that it wasn't supposed to be useful
00:45:20 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: don't be like that, if it can trivially be extended to infinity, please do it, if it can't, it's probably not interesting.
00:45:38 <evincarofautumn> Hm.
00:45:41 <evincarofautumn> Well.
00:45:45 <oklopol> revcompgeek: yes, and i failed to understand what you meant at first, and apologized
00:45:53 <revcompgeek> k
00:46:38 <evincarofautumn> I suppose you could dynamically alter execution *speed* instead of direction, and repeat blocks of code by having unbounded memory to which you copy previously executed code.
00:46:39 <oklopol> evincarofautumn: i'm just saying... why not have it infinite, unless you have something like pointer size to stop ya
00:47:09 <oklopol> changing execution speed = ?
00:47:12 <evincarofautumn> Why not have it finite, when it begins to demand more elegant coding practices?
00:47:24 <oklopol> finite doesn't mean harder, usually.
00:47:27 <evincarofautumn> The rate at which the instruction pointer moves through space.
00:47:38 <oklopol> so, what does that mean exactly?
00:47:41 <evincarofautumn> Then we're not in funges so much.
00:48:15 <evincarofautumn> Well, you could have a position vector coupled with velocity and acceleration, and model the thread's journey through space using gravity.
00:48:29 <evincarofautumn> You could have missiles fired from a home base (say (0, 0))
00:48:42 <evincarofautumn> And they must reach planets to execute instructions.
00:48:46 <evincarofautumn> Whatever.
00:48:55 <oklopol> think about the turtle, how exactly is it's movement from (0,0) to (5,10) changed if speed changes?
00:49:23 <oklopol> does it move first to (0.5,0.5), then (1,1), then (1.5,1.5) etc?
00:50:15 <evincarofautumn> It could, if you're working with reals. It could just as easily go (0, 0), (2, 2), (4, 4), (5, 5), etc.
00:50:25 <evincarofautumn> (5, 6) I mean.
00:50:44 <evincarofautumn> I think this isn't really in the spirit of my original concept.
00:50:51 <oklopol> it isn't
00:50:54 <evincarofautumn> Which somebody called forkfunge.
00:51:00 <evincarofautumn> I want to keep that feeling.
00:51:02 <oklopol> real -> very different
00:51:48 <oklopol> hmm
00:51:49 <oklopol> actually
00:51:59 <oklopol> are you planning to have something like *numbers* to store stuff in?
00:52:10 <oklopol> perhaps a stack and operations for calculating stuff?
00:52:30 <evincarofautumn> Kind of.
00:52:45 <oklopol> i was assuming the computation and data are within the simple attractor following, and command space altering
00:52:52 <evincarofautumn> The only numbers you get are your location vector and the data pointed to by your parent's location vector.
00:53:05 <oklopol> hmm
00:53:05 <evincarofautumn> Plus I/O and stack.
00:53:10 <oklopol> ...stack?
00:53:18 <evincarofautumn> Stack is just for IPC.
00:53:29 <oklopol> i mean, if you have stack+bignums, you don't need infinitely extendable codespace
00:54:03 <oklopol> if you have two stacks and finite nums, once again tc
00:54:14 <evincarofautumn> I think we're starting to come together on this.
00:54:22 <oklopol> perhaps
00:54:36 <evincarofautumn> I like the devilish idea of attractors.
00:54:42 <evincarofautumn> Then you can't control how you get somewhere.
00:54:49 <evincarofautumn> You only control where you're going.
00:54:56 <evincarofautumn> ...in a manner of speaking.
00:55:09 <evincarofautumn> It's not as intuitive as setting a direction, anyway.
00:55:10 <revcompgeek> like Gravity!
00:55:59 <oklopol> yes, makes program flow harder
00:56:34 <revcompgeek> it seems like most esoteric languages are designed to be overly painful to use
00:56:44 <oklopol> but i think i'm going to go a bit more native with my graph version, stacks and numbers are just too easy ;)
00:56:51 <oklopol> well
00:56:53 <revcompgeek> and people just work to make them worse
00:57:01 <oklopol> heh
00:57:17 <evincarofautumn> Bingo, revcompgeek.
00:57:31 <revcompgeek> best example: malbolge
00:57:49 <oklopol> well the ones with a computational agent, a turtle, are the ones people usually make, simple to invent, usually tc, not at all nice to program
00:58:03 <evincarofautumn> You know, this idea doesn't seem hard enough, come to think of.
00:58:05 <oklopol> because usually you want arbitrary nesting for your structures
00:58:28 <evincarofautumn> s/of/of it/
00:58:35 <oklopol> is taht so?
00:58:51 <oklopol> oh shit i need to sleep
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00:58:54 <oklopol> cya!
00:58:55 <oklopol> ->
00:59:08 <evincarofautumn> What time zone are you?
00:59:12 <oklopol> finland
00:59:13 <oklopol> sp
00:59:16 <oklopol> *so
00:59:18 <oklopol> +2
00:59:31 <evincarofautumn> Ah.
00:59:38 <oklopol> 3 am
00:59:39 <evincarofautumn> I'm -5.
00:59:44 <oklopol> heh
01:00:16 <oklopol> now, sleep
01:00:17 <oklopol> ->
01:00:28 <evincarofautumn> Okay.
01:00:30 <evincarofautumn> Later.
01:00:48 <revcompgeek> has anyone looked at BRZRK?
01:01:29 <evincarofautumn> Looking it up right now.
01:03:00 <ehird> revcompgeek: Hello! You are one of the few people who uses the forum.
01:03:01 <evincarofautumn> Can't find it...
01:03:02 <ehird> I use the forum too!
01:03:23 <revcompgeek> the website appears to be down
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01:03:34 <revcompgeek> ehird: i just found it a few days ago
01:03:35 <ehird> No it's not.
01:04:03 <revcompgeek> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BRZRK
01:04:27 <evincarofautumn> Dang. Should have looked on the wiki.
01:04:32 <evincarofautumn> :P
01:07:26 <evincarofautumn> Okay.
01:07:34 <evincarofautumn> It's interesting.
01:07:39 <Sgeo> What forum?
01:08:03 <evincarofautumn> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/forum/
01:09:34 <revcompgeek> it isn't the best forum that could be used
01:09:38 <ehird> revcompgeek: Yes it is.
01:09:56 <revcompgeek> yes what is?
01:10:00 <ehird> I am ready to fully and strongly argue the point that the software is far superior to phpBB and clones, but Graue already did that in a previous thread.
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01:10:30 <ehird> Summary of why the software is better (linked from the previous thread about this on the forums): http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
01:13:29 <evincarofautumn> Hm.
01:13:51 <revcompgeek> umm....
01:14:15 <revcompgeek> anyway, what do you guys think about
01:14:19 <revcompgeek> BRZRK
01:14:23 <revcompgeek> sry
01:14:49 <evincarofautumn> Like I said, it's interesting.
01:14:55 <evincarofautumn> I tend to prefer more obfuscated things.
01:15:29 <evincarofautumn> This seems more...high-level specialisation in lieu of outright obfuscation.
01:16:01 <revcompgeek> so... how could i make it more obfuscated
01:16:43 <revcompgeek> it was actually designed to be more powerful and less obfuscated
01:16:54 <revcompgeek> it is obfuscated none the less
01:16:57 <evincarofautumn> I think that's a fine goal.
01:17:05 <evincarofautumn> And it certainly is obfuscated to some extent.
01:17:07 <evincarofautumn> Yeah.
01:17:20 <revcompgeek> i want it to be object oriented at some point
01:17:22 <evincarofautumn> I like the way your cat looks.
01:17:42 <revcompgeek> yeah, that is what i want most of the code to look like!
01:17:46 <evincarofautumn> It's almost understandable...
01:17:51 <evincarofautumn> I like that, actually.
01:18:13 <evincarofautumn> I think you should be able to figure out how a language works but have a hard time using it nonetheless.
01:18:21 <revcompgeek> it hurts my brain less to write something that is both powerful and obfuscated
01:18:22 <evincarofautumn> esolang, of course.
01:18:31 <evincarofautumn> Heh, I know the feeling.
01:18:47 <revcompgeek> rather than pure obfuscation
01:19:00 <evincarofautumn> The closest I ever came was something called "symbol", which I never released.
01:19:00 <revcompgeek> like malbolge (YUCK!)
01:19:14 <ehird> revcompgeek: I love malbolge.
01:19:19 <evincarofautumn> Yuck in a really cool way, though.
01:19:20 <ehird> I mean sure, doing something like it is old hat now
01:19:32 <revcompgeek> ehird: have you written anything useful in it?
01:19:35 <ehird> But there was a trend LEANING towards that way at the time, and Malbolge just took it and slammed it to death.
01:19:40 <ehird> It is the ultimate.
01:19:50 <ehird> revcompgeek: No -- nothing. But it is lovely.
01:19:54 <evincarofautumn> None has written anything useful in it by hand.
01:20:02 <revcompgeek> GA
01:20:08 <revcompgeek> Genetic Algorithms
01:20:17 <evincarofautumn> No human, anyway.
01:20:19 <revcompgeek> i wrote a GA library in D recently
01:20:21 <evincarofautumn> Heh.
01:20:25 <evincarofautumn> Nice.
01:20:30 <evincarofautumn> What functionality?
01:20:42 <revcompgeek> it would be reasonably simple to make a malbolge evolver
01:20:49 <revcompgeek> functionality?
01:20:51 <revcompgeek> explain
01:21:08 <evincarofautumn> What features does your library include?
01:21:14 <revcompgeek> you can look at the source in dsource.org/projects/AID/
01:21:25 <revcompgeek> basic string evolution
01:21:38 <evincarofautumn> 500: Project AID does not exist.
01:21:53 <revcompgeek> uh oh, let me check
01:22:19 <revcompgeek> make aid lower case
01:22:35 <revcompgeek> i like ai
01:22:38 <ehird> <evincarofautumn> None has written anything useful in it by hand.
01:22:40 <ehird> Yesss they have!
01:22:51 <revcompgeek> one plus to my language is that it would be easy to use in genetic programming
01:23:07 <evincarofautumn> ehird:Has the news broken and I missed it?
01:23:09 <evincarofautumn> Crap!
01:23:14 <ehird> evincarofautumn: It was ages ago!
01:23:17 <ehird> But he hasn't revealed his secrets.
01:23:18 <evincarofautumn> Crap!
01:23:19 <ehird> He's evil!
01:23:22 <ehird> http://www.antwon.com/index.php?p=234
01:23:22 <evincarofautumn> Oh.
01:23:24 <ehird> 2000, in fact!
01:23:24 <evincarofautumn> Of course.
01:23:37 <ehird> '"Hello, world." — blatant self-promotion — a keen observation '
01:23:40 <ehird> three programs
01:23:49 <ehird> hand-crafted (it seems, from the look of them) malbolge programs
01:24:06 <ehird> evincarofautumn: Also - http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Malbolge_programming
01:24:10 <ehird> And: http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml
01:24:41 <ehird> evincarofautumn: There's also a real-loop 99bob in Malbolge.
01:25:07 <evincarofautumn> I've seen that one.
01:25:17 <evincarofautumn> Nearly crapped my pants.
01:25:35 <evincarofautumn> Most loops like to terminate like crazy.
01:25:57 <ehird> heh
01:26:02 <ehird> 'PLEASE!! LET ME TERMINATE!!! :('
01:26:27 <ehird> hmm
01:26:33 <ehird> esolang's Malbolge page has the FSA category
01:26:36 <ehird> but no justification
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01:27:15 <evincarofautumn> Odd.
01:27:21 <evincarofautumn> Has it been proven tc?
01:27:23 <revcompgeek> i just added a more obfuscated cat to the BRZRK page
01:28:02 <revcompgeek> S_0While!=_*2+67`BS_'$_
01:28:52 <revcompgeek> if i renamed the loops to shorter and more obfuscated names, would that be better?
01:28:54 <evincarofautumn> Nice.
01:29:10 <ehird> revcompgeek: no
01:29:11 <evincarofautumn> I was just about to say, I'd like a symbol for the commonly-used loops.
01:29:12 <ehird> that's selling out
01:29:13 <ehird> :-)
01:29:28 <evincarofautumn> Maybe you could eliminate for?
01:29:34 <evincarofautumn> That's just me.
01:29:36 <evincarofautumn> I never like for loops.
01:29:41 <revcompgeek> i am almost out of symbols to use
01:29:47 <ehird> revcompgeek: the While looks kinda cute
01:29:56 <revcompgeek> for will stay there, but it doesn't have to be used
01:30:10 <evincarofautumn> It is kind of cute, sitting there all alone, surrounded by line noise...
01:30:16 <revcompgeek> how about While -> W
01:30:22 <revcompgeek> Do -> D
01:30:26 <revcompgeek> For -> F
01:30:32 <revcompgeek> If -> I
01:30:38 <revcompgeek> Ifelse -> Ie
01:30:49 <ehird> revcompgeek: nononono
01:31:09 <revcompgeek> can i have anyone else's opinion?
01:32:34 <revcompgeek> apparently no one else has an opinion
01:33:19 <ehird> revcompgeek: no. everyone else just isn't here
01:33:40 <revcompgeek> what about evin?
01:33:53 <revcompgeek> or evincarofautumn
01:33:59 <revcompgeek> that name is too long
01:34:07 <evincarofautumn> Ha.
01:34:19 <evincarofautumn> I have no opinion, I guess.
01:34:26 <evincarofautumn> Or a neutral opinion.
01:34:46 <revcompgeek> which is better: S_0While!=_*2+67`BS_'$_ or S_0W!=_*2+67`BS_'$_
01:34:53 <revcompgeek> wow that looks better
01:35:00 <revcompgeek> S_0While!=_*2+67`BS_'$_
01:35:05 <revcompgeek> vs S_0W!=_*2+67`BS_'$_
01:35:26 <revcompgeek> that looks quite obfuscated to me
01:36:44 <evincarofautumn> Maybe you could offer both, if you can't decide.
01:37:21 <revcompgeek> i would like the interpreter to be able to output the obfuscated version of the code
01:37:27 <revcompgeek> ie: without comments or whitespace
01:37:57 <revcompgeek> having multiple names for loops makes it even more fun to obfuscate!
01:38:09 <revcompgeek> i like it
01:38:15 <evincarofautumn> Call them "Traditional" and "Simplified" after Chinese.
01:38:24 <revcompgeek> :P
01:38:34 <evincarofautumn> Then write a converter in the language ^_^
01:38:45 <revcompgeek> :D
01:38:49 <revcompgeek> nah
01:39:00 <revcompgeek> output from the parser will be the easiest to do
01:39:17 <revcompgeek> if someone wants to write an obfuscator in the language then be my guest
01:40:38 <ehird> revcompgeek: Obviously, you should ignore lower-case letters.
01:40:41 <ehird> Then W and While both work.
01:40:45 <ehird> And you get comments for free!
01:40:47 <evincarofautumn> Yes!
01:40:50 <evincarofautumn> Yes yes yes!
01:40:59 <evincarofautumn> Beautiful!
01:41:24 <ehird> Also, Winter works too.
01:41:30 <ehird> As well as What is this nonsense
01:42:21 <ehird> So_0What is this nonsense!obviously x=five but _*2+67is not grand which is`BullShit_'$_
01:42:40 <evincarofautumn> And since the syntax is punctuation-based, you can inline it as much as you want, making it look like normal text.
01:42:44 <ehird> It's like oerjan's Unlambda in INTERCAL
01:42:47 <evincarofautumn> Steganography right there.
01:42:52 <ehird> "PLEASE NOTE RISING INFLATION" and stuffs
01:42:59 <evincarofautumn> Heh.
01:46:45 <evincarofautumn> Oh wow. I just found one of my old eso specs.
01:48:06 <evincarofautumn> You get...sponges. Sponges are like variables, but they can absorb an unlimited number of values, string or integer, and you don't know which stored value you'll receive when you 'squeeze' it.
01:48:14 <evincarofautumn> Nice.
01:48:40 <evincarofautumn> Apart from that, math operations are fairly deterministic...provided you only use single-valued sponges.
01:50:02 <evincarofautumn> Sponge Spongey
01:50:04 <evincarofautumn> Spongey Absorb Hello World
01:50:05 <evincarofautumn> Squeeze Spongey
01:50:07 <evincarofautumn> Squish Spongey
01:50:08 <evincarofautumn> Splat
01:50:42 <ihope> Cool.
01:50:45 <revcompgeek> awsome
01:50:59 <ihope> Just what do squeeze and squish do?
01:51:10 <ehird> revcompgeek: Are you goign to make it ignore lowercase?
01:51:11 <ehird> Best idea ever
01:51:18 <revcompgeek> no
01:51:29 <revcompgeek> that removes the power
01:51:41 <revcompgeek> if you notice, you can define functions
01:51:58 <revcompgeek> if you only have uppercase, there can be no variables and only a few functions
01:52:05 <revcompgeek> that is a completely different language
01:52:39 <ehird> revcompgeek: your comment chars are {...}
01:52:42 <ehird> make {...} mean a name
01:52:45 <ehird> so {foo} is a function name
01:52:48 <ehird> i.e. it's anti-comment
01:53:10 <evincarofautumn> That's nice.
01:53:19 <evincarofautumn> Then they stick out like they're not supposed to be there.
01:53:30 <evincarofautumn> Plus you can include any non-} character.
01:53:47 <revcompgeek> this is a completely new language
01:53:53 <ehird> revcompgeek: no it's nt
01:53:57 <ehird> you're being a bit too protective of it
01:54:00 <ehird> it's a good idea, and it works neatly
01:54:03 <ehird> and allows fun obfuscation
01:54:08 <evincarofautumn> ihope: squeeze outputs a value of a sponge, apparently, and squish undefines it.
01:54:14 <revcompgeek> it is a good idea
01:54:35 <revcompgeek> but my language is very different from the one you are describint
01:54:44 <revcompgeek> s/describint/describing
01:54:45 <ehird> revcompgeek: It's called 'revisions'.
01:54:50 <ehird> Not very different anyway
01:54:50 <evincarofautumn> Well, you don't _have_to obfuscate.
01:54:53 <evincarofautumn> It's just fun.
01:54:53 <ehird> Just: {...} makes it a name
01:54:56 <ehird> and otherwise lowercase is ignored
01:55:03 <ihope> Syntax change.
01:55:40 <revcompgeek> {} can be used for functions or variables?
01:55:51 <revcompgeek> how do you distinguish?
01:56:35 <ehird> revcompgeek: How do you distinguish now?
01:56:43 <ehird> It's just that inside {}, things like 'abc' aren't comments
01:56:59 <ehird> It's the anti-comment: It means 'this contains lowercase letters, BUT it's a name'
01:57:11 <revcompgeek> hmm
01:57:59 <revcompgeek> no
01:58:31 <evincarofautumn> Why no?
01:58:44 <evincarofautumn> What else do you use {} to do if they were comment chars before?
01:58:54 <revcompgeek> but, since it is fairly similar, the scanner and parser i have written would only take minor modifications to accept it
01:58:58 <evincarofautumn> Or are you looking to be able to include uppercase characters in comments.
01:59:11 <evincarofautumn> s/\./\?/
01:59:20 <revcompgeek> i don't really need {}
01:59:27 <revcompgeek> but i needed comments
01:59:38 <revcompgeek> they really could be [] or ()
02:01:03 <ehird> revcompgeek: why ask if you will just say 'no' to suggestions?
02:02:39 <revcompgeek> those aren't really the suggestions i was looking for
02:02:43 <revcompgeek> but i like both ideas
02:02:57 <revcompgeek> function calls would be {name}{body}
02:03:06 <revcompgeek> just for obfuscation purposes
02:03:24 <revcompgeek> or {name}{params}
02:04:19 <revcompgeek> blocks of code inside []
02:05:12 <revcompgeek> would make a fairly interesting polyglot between the two
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02:08:08 <revcompgeek> now no one will talk to me
02:08:19 <evincarofautumn> Barglemash.
02:08:25 <evincarofautumn> Oh, wait.
02:08:27 <evincarofautumn> You said talk.
02:08:31 <evincarofautumn> Hello.
02:08:36 <revcompgeek> HI
02:08:44 <revcompgeek> Barglemash?
02:09:04 <evincarofautumn> I have some bad memories of that I have to deal with.
02:09:08 <evincarofautumn> It happened a few lines ago.
02:09:12 <evincarofautumn> I don't want to talk about it.
02:09:16 <evincarofautumn> ^_^
02:11:32 <revcompgeek> did i say something wrong?
02:11:40 <revcompgeek> was asking for suggestions a mistake?
02:13:24 <evincarofautumn> No.
02:13:29 <evincarofautumn> Well, maybe.
02:13:40 <evincarofautumn> I didn't even ask, and got crazy suggestions.
02:14:08 <evincarofautumn> Which, like yours, were unfitting with my original idea.
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02:14:15 <evincarofautumn> You have to forgive people for being eager.
02:14:49 <revcompgeek> i am not angry at anyone for being eager
02:14:52 <revcompgeek> i like the ideas
02:15:02 <revcompgeek> but my language is just so clean the way it is...
02:15:09 <evincarofautumn> Heh.
02:15:21 <evincarofautumn> There are LISP programmers out there who would kill you for saying that.
02:15:43 <revcompgeek> :)
02:15:54 <revcompgeek> it is a good thing this isn't #lisp
02:16:05 <evincarofautumn> Sho' you right.
02:16:34 <revcompgeek> i will take suggestions for the new language
02:16:49 <revcompgeek> including names
02:18:56 <revcompgeek> if anyone wants to contribute
02:19:27 <evincarofautumn> Bah.
02:19:43 <evincarofautumn> I just got into writing a new one of my own.
02:20:07 <revcompgeek> like what?
02:20:14 <revcompgeek> if you are willing to explain...
02:20:39 <evincarofautumn> All right.
02:21:02 <evincarofautumn> Limited number of variables, unlimited stack.
02:21:11 <evincarofautumn> You have to select a variable to perform an operation on it.
02:21:35 <evincarofautumn> Otherwise it's locked, and accessing it raises an exception.
02:21:50 <revcompgeek> ooh! exceptions!
02:21:58 <revcompgeek> :D
02:22:23 <evincarofautumn> Yeah.
02:22:30 <evincarofautumn> I'm thinking of taking the locking concept to the extreme.
02:22:50 <evincarofautumn> Basically there's one unlocked block of program code at startup
02:23:05 <evincarofautumn> and the interpreter loops through the entire source until all of the blocks are locked.
02:23:17 <evincarofautumn> Blocks are named, and can be locked/unlocked arbitrarily.
02:23:29 <revcompgeek> can only be run if unlocked?
02:23:36 <evincarofautumn> Yep.
02:23:42 <revcompgeek> Nice.
02:23:52 <evincarofautumn> I could call it mutex.
02:24:13 <revcompgeek> for the name?
02:24:14 <evincarofautumn> Come to think of it, that's just what I'll do.
02:24:17 <evincarofautumn> Yeah.
02:24:19 <revcompgeek> i like it!
02:24:26 <revcompgeek> seriously!
02:24:35 <evincarofautumn> Hm.
02:24:47 <evincarofautumn> I have to get working on this.
02:25:11 <evincarofautumn> I'll toss it on the wiki today or tomorrow.
02:25:18 <revcompgeek> i can't wait
02:25:50 <evincarofautumn> All right.
02:25:54 <evincarofautumn> Guess I'm outta here then.
02:26:07 <evincarofautumn> It's been nice talking.
02:26:09 <revcompgeek> bye
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02:30:55 <Slereah_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEDsycpvP30&feature=related
02:31:04 <Slereah_> Borat explains why evolution is wrong.
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02:49:52 <revcompgeek> anyone here that likes nondeterministic languages?
02:50:12 <Slereah_> Not really.
02:50:29 <Slereah_> I did some random number function on the Love Machine 9000, but I don't use it much
02:50:47 <revcompgeek> me neither, but i just thought of a good idea for one
02:51:56 <revcompgeek> i got the idea from quantum computers
02:52:06 <revcompgeek> but they are unrelated
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02:54:44 <revcompgeek> judofyr: you like nondeterministic languages?
02:55:52 <revcompgeek> why do people join if they don't answer/participate?
02:56:38 <Slereah_> Because they have autojoin?
02:56:59 <revcompgeek> ahh
02:57:24 * oerjan is currently falling deeper and deeper into a black hole known as TvTropes
02:58:08 <revcompgeek> TvTropes?
02:58:24 <oerjan> an extremely addictive wiki
02:59:35 <Slereah_> Indeed.
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03:02:10 <Slereah_> So, what is your idea revcompgeek
03:02:44 <revcompgeek> hmmm
03:02:50 <revcompgeek> how should i put it...
03:03:13 <revcompgeek> each line is a value and a list of operations
03:03:37 <revcompgeek> when run, a random number is chosen
03:03:58 <revcompgeek> the operation is chosen with that number for each line in the program
03:04:12 <revcompgeek> and applied to the value of that line
03:05:50 <revcompgeek> these operations are math operations
03:06:23 <revcompgeek> when the first line's value becomes 0, the program is halted
03:06:41 <revcompgeek> i haven't decided what the output is
03:06:54 <revcompgeek> either the values of the other lines when the program exits
03:07:03 <revcompgeek> or outputed with an output operation
03:07:54 <Slereah_> Is it... TC?
03:08:02 <revcompgeek> lines look like "line number: (value) operations"
03:08:06 <revcompgeek> TC?
03:09:25 <revcompgeek> what is TC?
03:09:51 <Slereah_> Turing Complete.
03:10:10 <revcompgeek> probably not
03:10:23 <revcompgeek> but with some modifications it might be
03:10:36 <revcompgeek> like a way of ensuring that a certain operation runs
03:10:56 <revcompgeek> and a storage space
03:10:58 <revcompgeek> like a stack
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16:00:31 <ehird> 57
16:00:58 <Slereah_> 26580
16:01:09 <Slereah_> Oooooh dial up if you want to know me!
16:03:42 <ehird> 454548
16:07:13 -!- evincarofautumn has joined.
16:07:35 <evincarofautumn> Word, folk.
16:13:35 <Slereah_> ello sir
16:14:31 <ehird> hello evincarofautumn
16:14:39 <ehird> i am hereby suggesting a new irc name for you
16:14:39 <ehird> evincar
16:14:49 <ehird> your current one is jarring
16:14:50 <ehird> :-)
16:14:59 <ehird> bonus points: it's not registered
16:16:57 <ehird> evincarofautumn: no?
16:17:46 <pikhq> :D
16:19:05 <ehird> pikhq: :D
16:19:57 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:20:55 <ehird> ais523: hello
16:20:57 <ehird> ircnomic needs you!
16:20:59 <ehird> it's deeeed
16:21:02 <ais523> hello ehird
16:21:16 <pikhq> No it doesn't.
16:21:32 <ehird> pikhq: Yuss it does.
16:21:37 * pikhq needs to recover from last night
16:21:41 <ehird> He's the only one who isn't incompetent with the admin interface!
16:21:47 <ais523> wow, no rules were added since I last looked at it?
16:21:50 <ehird> 'recover' from last night?
16:21:58 <ehird> pikhq, evidently, has inconsistent blocks
16:21:59 <pikhq> No quote marks.
16:22:01 <ehird> :-P
16:22:07 <ehird> ais523: nope
16:22:14 <ehird> nothing happened -all night-
16:22:15 <ehird> not one message
16:22:18 <ehird> just joins/parts
16:22:19 <ehird> about 4
16:22:31 * pikhq had prom last night.
16:22:41 <ehird> pikhq: I was talking to ais523 anyway
16:22:47 <pikhq> Mmkay.
16:27:05 <ais523> ircnomic = IRC, without a microphone
16:30:46 <ehird> ais523: Well that ... doesn't make a lot of sense
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16:46:03 <evincarofautumn> Okay.
16:46:13 <evincarofautumn> Now that my internet has stopped dying.
16:47:28 <ehird> evincarofautumn: /nick evincar
16:47:34 <ehird> /msg nickserv register <password>
16:47:37 <ehird> or i will tear my hair out :D
16:47:41 -!- evincarofautumn has changed nick to eoa.
16:48:32 <eoa> There.
16:48:45 <eoa> Now it's convenient to type for y'all.
16:49:41 <ehird> eoa: evincar is easier to type
16:49:53 <eoa> The product of last night's work: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Selector
16:51:23 <eoa> Are you kidding?
16:51:35 <ais523> eoa is easier to type than evincar
16:51:36 <eoa> Eoa bounces nicely between the hands.
16:51:46 <ais523> vinc is a tricky character sequence
16:51:52 <eoa> Whatever.
16:51:56 -!- eoa has changed nick to evincar.
16:52:00 <ehird> ais523: evi<tab>
16:52:09 <ehird> evincar: you'll probably want to register that
16:52:17 <ehird> /msg NickServ register <pass>, if you didn't know
16:52:46 <ehird> 'LESS KNOB'
16:52:47 <ehird> brilliant
16:53:53 <evincar> Heh. Thanks.
16:54:16 <evincar> How should I cat this?
16:54:37 <ais523> Category:2008, obviously
16:54:49 <ais523> I'll need to read the description to figure out the other cats
16:55:11 <evincar> I'm thinking Languages, Low-level, Unimplemented, 2008?
16:56:04 <ais523> evincar: I think that lang's a push-down automaton
16:56:07 <ais523> so you can add that too
16:56:18 <ais523> I don't see how it can be TC, because you can't random-access an infinite amount of storage
16:56:32 <ais523> (you only have one stack, and can't delve into deeper down the stack)
16:56:36 <ais523> or are numbers unbounded?
16:56:41 <evincar> Numbers are unbounded.
16:56:56 <ais523> OK, in that case it's TC because you can simulate Minsky-machine-Brainfuck trivially in it
16:57:02 <evincar> Cools.
16:57:09 <evincar> Not quite a tarpit, though.
16:58:43 <RodgerTheGreat> I think this language could be quite entertaining if it read each command via text-to-speech as it executed.
16:59:08 <evincar> Ha!
16:59:11 <evincar> I'm going to try that.
17:02:16 <evincar> It's amusing.
17:02:21 <evincar> Not hilarious.
17:02:40 <evincar> I think it would be more entertaining if I had included more of the looping and block control constructs.
17:02:42 <ais523> evincar: have you ever played WarioWare?
17:02:58 <evincar> Yes. All of them.
17:03:23 <ais523> evincar: I was just wondering what would have inspired you to create such a language, and WarioWare was my first guess
17:03:31 <ais523> I only have the DS version, but it's good
17:03:40 <evincar> Heh.
17:03:50 <evincar> That's a wierd guess. ^_^
17:04:10 <evincar> I just started writing ideas down, and this is what I got.
17:04:14 <ehird> evincar: It's not Wierd, that's binary
17:04:21 <evincar> Heh.
17:04:32 <evincar> eso programmers and their in-jokes.
17:04:42 * evincar shakes a fist
17:06:15 <Slereah_> HEY GAIZ, LET'S USE ESCO
17:07:11 <ehird> Slereah_: tee hee
17:07:40 <evincar> Urgh.
17:07:48 <evincar> You're hurting me.
17:07:56 <Slereah_> What else is an awesome eso joke.
17:08:06 <ehird> Slereah_: ... And then I brainfucked her!!
17:08:08 <ehird> ahahahahhahah
17:08:19 <Slereah_> Oh you.
17:10:26 <evincar> And then she said "KTHXBAI".
17:10:33 <evincar> And that was the end of it.
17:11:12 <ehird> evincar: HAHAHA
17:11:15 <ehird> And then i was befunged!!
17:11:28 <evincar> Come to think of it, it really bothers me that lolcode uses "VISIBLE".
17:11:31 <ehird> oh lordy we are great kommunist komedians
17:11:41 <evincar> Can't you come up with a more lolcatsy command name?
17:11:48 <ehird> evincar: 'INVISIBLE SANDWICH'
17:11:51 <ehird> 'VISIBLE SANDWICH'
17:11:53 <ehird> it's a common meme
17:12:02 <ehird> VISIBLE is already lolcatsy
17:12:20 <evincar> I know it's a common meme, but...
17:12:23 <evincar> dang.
17:12:33 <evincar> It just doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the code.
17:13:13 <evincar> Like "IM IN UR LOOP UPPIN UR VAR TIL BOTHSAEM VAR AN 10"
17:13:15 <evincar> Classic.
17:15:31 <Slereah_> What is visible for again, output?
17:15:51 <ehird> yes
17:16:40 <evincar> I like the proposed event-handling system.
17:16:45 <evincar> IZ CATURDAY!
17:16:52 <evincar> ...
17:16:53 <evincar> ON CATURDAY
17:16:55 <evincar> ...
17:17:00 <evincar> KTHXBYE
17:17:40 <Slereah_> Will it POST SOME FUCKING CATS?
17:18:06 <evincar> Um.
17:18:08 <evincar> Yes?
17:18:20 <Slereah_> For that is what is done on Caturday!
17:19:21 <evincar> Sho you right.
17:19:31 <ehird> Slereah_: PLEASE DO POST SOME FUCKING CATS
17:19:33 <ehird> i love intercal
17:19:47 <ais523> ehird: that was random; anything in particular you like about it?
17:20:37 <ehird> ais523: 'PLEASE DO'
17:20:43 <ehird> PLEASE DO POST SOME FUCKING CATS
17:20:59 <Slereah_> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/96/Raepcat.jpg
17:21:04 <evincar> COME FROM.
17:21:07 <Slereah_> Am I doin it rite?
17:21:30 <ehird> Slereah_: I didn't need to see that
17:22:01 <ais523> MAYBE PLEASE DO NOT %50 POST SOME FUCKING CATS ONCE
17:22:29 <ehird> ais523: hah
17:24:57 <evincar> Compile Error: Excessively polite.
17:25:26 <ais523> evincar: the program's less than three lines long, so that error doesn't apply
17:25:27 <ehird> evincar: ais523 must have lots of fun maintaining that module
17:26:11 <evincar> Heh.
17:26:33 <ehird> evincar: (ais523 maintains C-INTERCAL)
17:26:39 <evincar> Oh.
17:26:44 <evincar> I am in the presence of greatness.
17:26:48 <ehird> heh
17:26:57 <ehird> well, dbc is Daniel B Cristofani
17:26:58 * evincar runs and grabs some disinfectant
17:27:02 <ehird> i think that's all the esocelebs in here
17:27:07 <ehird> though really the community is so small we're all celebs
17:27:13 <evincar> Whoo!
17:27:27 <evincar> To be a celebrity in a constantly-near-defunct community!
17:27:30 <Slereah_> Well, AIS is the motherfucking Wolfram winner, too D:
17:27:46 <evincar> :O
17:28:16 <ais523> Slereah_: I'm not sure about the motherfucking part, but otherwise that's right
17:28:27 <ehird> Slereah_: I was going to say that but then I remembered that ais523 doesn't like his name revealed
17:28:30 <Slereah_> I will have to ask miss Smith.
17:28:39 <Slereah_> My bad then.
17:28:46 <ehird> but i think that's just on wikipedia
17:28:56 <ais523> ehird: it's reasonably fine here
17:28:57 <evincar> I think maybe intercal was a touch of inspiration for my Selector.
17:28:58 <ehird> where, apparently, he will be murdered in his sleep
17:29:02 <ais523> but not on Wikpedia or any Wikipedia-related channels
17:29:24 <ehird> actually, the idea of ais523 being murdered in his sleep because of wikipedia is vaguely amusing
17:29:37 <ehird> 'Aha! Now you will delete my pages... NO MORE!'
17:29:52 <Slereah_> Is there a price on his head?
17:29:55 <ehird> 'This is what you get... for violating the... THREE REVERT RULE!!!!!'
17:29:56 -!- timotiis_ has changed nick to timotiis.
17:30:01 <Slereah_> 'cause I need sum money.
17:30:06 <ais523> Slereah_: not yet, but it has happened to many other admins
17:30:39 <ais523> so far nobody's got mad at me for making technical improvements to the deletion system and fixing typos in templates, but you never know...
17:30:45 <ais523> there are some pretty strange people on the Internet
17:30:56 <ais523> and a significant proportion of them are aware of Wikipedia
17:31:05 <ehird> ais523: maybe ec will be the real problem
17:31:11 <ehird> "I fucking despise that site .... AND YOU!!!"
17:31:18 <ehird> *stabstabstabstabstabstabstab*
17:32:10 <Slereah_> And is there no strange people on eso?
17:32:20 <ais523> Slereah_: yes, but there are all types of strangeness
17:32:27 -!- Judofyr has quit (Connection timed out).
17:32:36 <ais523> and the types which would go and track me down and deal me physical harm are hopefully rare here
17:32:50 <ehird> ais523: Actually I'm an insane psychopath.
17:32:53 <ehird> I am tracking you down now.
17:32:58 <ehird> Oh, hello! I'm behind you.
17:33:05 * ais523 looks behind themself
17:33:07 <ais523> ehird: no you aren't
17:33:17 <ehird> ais523: Oh... really?
17:33:21 <ais523> at least, not immediately behind
17:33:23 -!- ehird has changed nick to als523.
17:33:25 <als523> ..... Uh, guys? I just kinda killed someone. Halp?
17:33:30 <als523> i'm typing from his keyboard
17:33:30 <ais523> you have approximately a 1-in-2 chance of being somewhere behind
17:33:31 <Slereah_> Don't answer that craigslist ad looking for a wolfram prize winner, it's a trap!
17:33:36 <als523> ais523: WHOA IT'S A GHOST
17:33:46 <als523> crazy
17:33:48 -!- als523 has changed nick to ehird.
17:33:53 <ehird> Um, you killed ais523?!
17:33:55 -!- ehird has changed nick to als523.
17:33:57 <als523> Yup.
17:34:07 <als523> ... Bah, nick change limit.
17:34:09 <ais523> in fact, that's a 100% chance if you allow 'behind' to wrap around the world
17:34:09 <als523> I mean ... er...
17:34:11 <als523> Something
17:34:17 -!- als523 has changed nick to ehird.
17:34:27 <ais523> ehird: I can see the nick changes in my client, you are unlikely to fool anyone like that
17:34:40 <evincar> Same here.
17:34:55 <ehird> ais523: <.<
17:35:05 <ais523> what's the difference between <.< and >.>?
17:35:19 <ais523> is it like ec's upside-down smilies?
17:35:27 <ehird> ais523: <.< means you're looking one way
17:35:30 <ehird> >.> means another
17:35:31 <ais523> (you draw smilies upside-down if you're left-handed, right?)
17:35:33 <evincar> ais523: Maybe it's a glass-half-empty, glass-half-full thing.
17:35:36 <ehird> >.< means your eyes are broken
17:35:39 <ehird> and <.> is something other
17:35:42 <ehird> IT RHYMES
17:35:45 <evincar> It looks concerned.
17:35:56 <ais523> ehird: <.> is that negative-list language
17:36:27 <Slereah_> v.v
17:36:30 <Slereah_> ^.^
17:36:38 <Slereah_> .
17:36:39 <evincar> ^_^
17:36:40 <ehird> ais523: nopol
17:36:44 <evincar> @o@
17:36:55 <Slereah_> n.n
17:36:57 <ehird> ê.ê
17:37:02 <ehird> û.û
17:37:06 <evincar> *-() pink eye
17:37:10 <ehird> ô.ô
17:37:20 <Slereah_> .
17:37:21 <evincar> —.—
17:37:26 <Slereah_> Black squares D:
17:37:27 <ais523> ...
17:37:32 <evincar> █.█
17:37:48 <evincar> What, no unicode?
17:38:11 <ehird> ø.ø
17:38:13 <Slereah_> Not on mIRC
17:38:19 <ehird> æ.æ wtf
17:38:50 <Slereah_> .
17:38:59 <ais523> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ
17:39:10 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̕̚ ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚ ̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̕̚
17:39:10 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚v
17:39:13 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:14 <ehird> ̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:18 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:23 <ehird> ̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:28 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:33 <ehird> ̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:40 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:45 <ehird> ̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚
17:39:50 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:39:55 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:40:00 <ehird> ̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̗̘̙̖̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̒̓̔̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕̚̕
17:40:05 <ehird> wow
17:40:09 <ehird> that is totally
17:40:11 <ehird> weird looking
17:40:13 <ehird> wtf
17:40:15 <ehird> i mean
17:40:17 <ehird> one tiny block of text
17:40:19 <Slereah_> This is stupfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffvv
17:40:19 <ehird> takes like 934872395 bajillion messages
17:40:31 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉
17:40:34 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̕
17:40:41 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̕̚
17:40:44 <evincar> Scary.
17:40:46 <ehird> ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́͠ͅ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ
17:40:51 <ais523> ehird: what exactly are you doing?
17:40:51 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ cool it appears as one jumbled up char in here
17:40:55 <ehird> but in the channel
17:40:57 <ehird> WOOOOSH
17:40:59 <ehird> like popcorn
17:41:01 <ehird> little packet: ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ <- zooom
17:41:09 <ehird> ais523: your "·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠ͅ" appears as basically one-glyph length in the input box
17:41:10 <ais523> it's a combining-mark-bomb
17:41:16 <ehird> once you put it in the channel, though, it <--expands--->
17:41:20 <ehird> combining mark BOMB?
17:41:22 <ehird> how is it a bomb
17:41:29 <ais523> one character, about a hundred bytes in UTF-8
17:41:42 <ais523> like a decompression bomb
17:42:04 <ais523> where you have a file which is a few megabytes, but decompresses to several petabytes and crashes your computer
17:42:13 <ehird> ah
17:43:19 <evincar> When I was learning about compression, I shot myself in the foot with something like that.
17:43:38 <evincar> One of my RLE files didn't write correctly.
17:44:27 <ehird> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ê
17:44:57 <ehird> ·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ<-- TWO BLOCKS OF BOMB TORN APART -->.·̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́̕̚͠͡ͅ
17:47:16 <evincar> So, anyone have any new ideas lately?
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17:47:38 <evincar> Or anyone feel like making the reference interpreter for Selector?
17:47:50 <ehird> evincar: I might
17:47:58 <ehird> Can I do it in something obscure?
17:48:08 <ais523> evincar: I have a plan for a graph-rewriting language
17:48:08 <evincar> Hmm.
17:48:29 <ehird> evincar: OK I'll implement selector
17:48:29 <evincar> ehird: If you want to do it yourself, you can do it in something obscure. Otherwise I wanted to collaborate on an obfuscated C version.
17:48:47 <ehird> I'll collaborate on an obfuscated C version but let's get a regular sane one to test on
17:48:54 <evincar> Hm.
17:48:56 <evincar> All right.
17:49:02 <ais523> graphs are represented as strings of letters
17:49:03 <evincar> Come to think of it...
17:49:11 <evincar> ehird: C or C++ for the standard impl?
17:49:11 <ehird> evincar: Is Ruby alright for an interp?
17:49:15 <ehird> It'd be pretty trivial for htis.
17:49:20 <ehird> Like 30-40 lines
17:49:39 <ehird> A standard impl could be done last (after the testing one (this), and the obfuscated C one, I guess)
17:49:49 <ais523> unique letters are different nodes in the graph
17:49:58 <ais523> and letters adjacent in the string are adjacent in the graph
17:50:01 <evincar> ais523: You and your nodes.
17:50:09 <ais523> so abcde is a five-node graph o-o-o-o-o
17:50:13 <ais523> abcdea is C_5
17:50:17 <ais523> and eodermdrome is K_5
17:51:33 <ehird> evincar: you can stuff Selector on one line
17:51:34 <evincar> ehird: Ruby and I get along about as well as Quentin Tarantino and Bambi.
17:51:42 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO
17:51:46 <evincar> Yeah.
17:51:46 <ehird> evincar: since the grammar is unabmigious
17:51:51 <ehird> maybe you should switch to that
17:51:53 <evincar> I'm going to change the wiki.
17:51:54 <ehird> instead of \n-termination
17:51:56 <ehird> it'd look nicer
17:52:00 <evincar> Yeah.
17:52:05 <ehird> of course, all whitespace should be ignored
17:52:06 <evincar> I think I forgot to mention that it's a style choice.
17:52:27 <evincar> All whitespace, non-capitals, and []-delimited text are ignored.
17:52:42 <ehird> evincar:
17:52:43 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK NINE MY ONE PICK NINE GO BACK MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT YOUR EIGHT YOUR EIGHT YOUR FIVE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR SEVEN MAKE PILE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO YOUR THREE MAKE PILE PICK NOSE MAKE HOLE PICK ZERO GO FORWARD MY ONE GO BACK PICK FIVE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK FIVE MY ONE GO BACK PICK ZERO YOUR SIX MAKE PILE PICK NO
17:52:43 <ehird> SE MAKE HOLE LESS KNOB
17:52:44 <evincar> s/text/chars/
17:52:55 <ehird> evincar: surely that look nicer than your previous one
17:53:03 <evincar> It's more concise, to be sure.
17:53:08 <evincar> I only put it with newlines for readability.
17:53:09 <ehird> evincar: try and read it out
17:53:30 <evincar> Heh.
17:53:30 <ehird> "All knob pick nine go forward pick zero your eight pick nine my one pick nine go back make pile pick nose make hole pick zero your eight, yoru eight, your eight your five make pile pick nose"
17:53:31 <ehird> etc
17:53:44 <ehird> as opposed to
17:53:48 <ehird> "all knob. pick nine. go foward."
17:53:49 <ehird> etc
17:53:52 <evincar> Yeah.
17:53:56 <evincar> It flows better.
17:54:02 <ehird> evincar: shall i change the example?
17:54:17 <evincar> Sure. I'll change the source reqs.
17:54:35 <ehird> evincar: done
17:54:57 <evincar> ehird: Done.
17:54:59 <evincar> Nice.
17:55:29 <ehird> evincar: My interp will be able to make some things syntax errors due to the nicety of your syntax.
17:55:30 <ehird> Cool.
17:55:38 <evincar> Such as?
17:56:16 <evincar> Oh yeah. Remember that blocks have to be able to move around.
17:56:20 <ehird> evincar: PICK BLAH
17:56:26 <ehird> actually
17:56:29 <ehird> you need a modifier PICK
17:56:30 <ehird> err
17:56:30 <ehird> NIT
17:56:34 <ehird> that can go before an instruction
17:56:35 <evincar> Heh.
17:56:36 <ehird> NIT PICK NOSE
17:56:42 <evincar> What does it do?
17:56:52 <evincar> If it's not justifiable, it's not going in.
17:57:21 <ehird> evincar: Um... realigns the plinckets
17:57:38 <evincar> Heh.
17:58:08 <evincar> Come to think of it... the source may be too easy to understand, considering that most of the commands are verb-noun.
17:58:29 <evincar> Or at least enough of them that you automatically read it in pairs.
17:58:39 <ehird> evincar: I like it this way
17:58:41 <ehird> it reads as silly poetr
17:58:43 <evincar> I'd like to keep PICK NOSE though.
17:58:47 <ehird> *poetry
17:58:48 <evincar> Yeah.
17:58:52 <ehird> evincar: Suggestion -
17:58:54 <ehird> give the registers names
17:59:02 <ehird> PICK UP
17:59:03 <ehird> PICK IT
17:59:04 <ehird> PICK ONE
17:59:06 <ehird> PICK NONE
17:59:13 <evincar> I was going to do that, but I couldn't decide on names.
17:59:20 <evincar> That could be interesting.
17:59:30 <ehird> evincar: name one arse
17:59:32 <evincar> The closest I came was giving descriptions of the number's glyphs.
17:59:33 <ehird> MY ARSE MY ARSE MY ARSE
17:59:37 <ehird> YOUR ARSE YOUR ARSE YOUR ARSE
17:59:38 <evincar> Heh.
17:59:41 <ehird> and PICK ARSE
18:00:04 <evincar> All right, let's come up with a list.
18:00:07 <evincar> ZERO is NONE
18:00:10 <evincar> ONE is ONE
18:00:25 <ehird> evincar: no
18:00:27 <ehird> ZERO is UP
18:00:29 <evincar> Oh, crap. Hang on a minute.
18:00:32 <ehird> actually..
18:00:33 <evincar> I'll be right back.
18:00:34 <ehird> i just like it as it is
18:00:35 <ehird> it's silly
18:00:37 <ehird> but readable
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18:08:08 <ehird> evincar: what can an identifier be?
18:08:16 <ehird> also, may i suggest making code *unicode*?
18:08:21 <ehird> then we can have silly identifiers
18:08:24 <ehird> like âe§D
18:10:18 <ehird> evincar: okay, i'm just making an identifier something other than whitespace
18:23:42 <ehird> http://www.flamingthunder.com/ This is a joke, right?
18:24:23 <ais523> ehird: what's at the other end of that link? I don't like clicking on links without some idea of what they link to
18:24:33 <ehird> ais523: a programming language
18:25:15 <Slereah_> Flaming Thunder looks really gay.
18:26:06 <ais523> ehird: well, they've misunderstood the GPL licence virus thing
18:26:19 <ehird> For example, we all learn that the negative of a negative is a positive, and in Flaming Thunder the following program writes 5 just as you'd expect:
18:26:19 <ehird> Set x to 5.
18:26:19 <ehird> Write --x.
18:26:23 <ais523> that particular interpretation of the GPL turned out only to apply to Bison
18:26:24 <ehird> ais523: reads like a joke to me
18:26:46 <ais523> so they put an explicit extra permission in Bison that you could do what you liked with the programs it output
18:26:50 <ehird> and:
18:26:51 <ehird> Welcome! Flaming Thunder is a powerful computer programming language for scientists, mathematicians and engineers that is also easy enough for elementary school students.
18:26:54 <ehird> reads sillily
18:26:57 <ais523> for other programs, like gcc, the GPL doesn't restrict their outputs
18:27:12 <ais523> Bison was a special case because it copied most of itself into the output
18:30:22 <evincar> Back
18:30:32 <evincar> I don't know how I feel about unicode ids.
18:30:49 <evincar> And flaming thunder is a bad pun.
18:32:31 <ehird> evincar: Not long, by the way.
18:32:43 <ais523> the thing that turns me off Flaming Thunder is that all their downloads are executables
18:32:59 <ais523> they claim it was written entirely in assemler, though, so that's not that surprisng
18:33:20 <evincar> Heh.
18:33:20 <ehird> ais523: the -- thing must be a joke though
18:33:57 <ais523> ehird: I think they're being serious
18:34:09 <ehird> ais523: Really? :|
18:34:10 <ais523> the main 'appeal' of that language is that all operators mean exactly what they do in maths
18:34:19 <ais523> they're pointing out that that isn't true in most other languages
18:34:22 <ehird> And it's good for Scientists and 3 year olds
18:34:29 <evincar> Heh.
18:34:30 <ehird> ais523: their java program is invalid
18:34:36 <ais523> ehird: standard advertising jargon
18:34:51 <ehird> class asimplejavaprogram // missed 'public', must be Asimplejavaprogram or similar
18:35:20 <ais523> java's a pain to write programs in
18:35:31 <ais523> and Java class names are case-insensitive on Windows
18:35:38 <ehird> <ais523> and Java class names are case-insensitive on Windows
18:35:41 <ehird> the syntax is constant
18:35:45 <ehird> asimplejavaprogram is invalid
18:36:01 <ais523> yes, the missing public is needed
18:36:12 <ehird> ais523: no
18:36:14 <ehird> the class name is invalid
18:36:25 <ais523> does it actually need a capital letter?
18:36:30 <ais523> Java's even stranger than I thought
18:36:54 <ehird> ais523: Ruby has that too, but that's just because classnames must be constnats
18:37:02 <ehird> and constants = first letter uppercase (because FOO, etc)
18:37:12 <ehird> thus leading to the CamelCase class naming convention
18:37:16 <ehird> iirc Foo_bar would be just as valid
18:38:24 <ehird> ais523: besides what mathematician would say 'Set x to 4'
18:38:55 <evincar> ehird: and how many people read the C statement "x = 4" as "x gets 4"?
18:39:05 <ais523> DO .1 <- #4
18:39:08 <evincar> It's just a matter of semantics.
18:39:13 <ais523> the <- is actually pronounced 'gets'
18:39:17 <ehird> evincar: even so..
18:39:20 <ais523> it says so in the manual
18:39:23 <ehird> it depletes their argument
18:39:25 <ehird> of mathematical-notation
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18:40:52 <evincar> ehird: have you started your Selector Ruby impl? I can't quite infer from your language.
18:41:10 <ehird> evincar: Yep
18:41:13 <ehird> Wrote the parser already
18:41:16 <evincar> Okay.
18:41:33 <evincar> You need to make blocks movable because of the BECOME command.
18:41:40 <ehird> evincar: movable?
18:41:55 <evincar> Yes. BECOME swaps the current block with another.
18:42:11 <evincar> It's the only way to do a non-adjacent jump.
18:42:33 <ehird> evincar: are the blocks ordered?
18:42:41 <evincar> Yes.
18:42:44 <evincar> I might have KNOB, MYBLOCK1, and MYBLOCK2 in order.
18:42:49 <ehird> evincar: by the order they appaer in the program?
18:42:55 <evincar> Yep.
18:43:06 <evincar> If MYBLOCK2 contains a BECOME MYBLOCK1 statement, then the new order is KNOB, MYBLOCK2, MYBLOCK1.
18:43:18 <ehird> evincar: And code is invalid outside a block right?
18:43:20 <ehird> And blocks can't be nested?
18:43:58 <evincar> There is no code that appears outside a block. If code leads the first block declaration in the program, it is really at the end of the last block declaration.
18:44:04 <evincar> And there's no way to nest blocks.
18:44:08 <evincar> There's no block terminator.
18:44:12 <evincar> A block ends when the next one begins.
18:44:39 <ehird> evincar: why not just have it an error?
18:44:42 <ehird> for the first thing
18:44:53 <evincar> (some code belonging to myblock1) ALL KNOB (some code belonging to knob) ALL MYBLOCK1 (more myblock1 code)
18:45:09 <evincar> If you don't feel like adding it, don't.
18:45:17 <evincar> I'm putting it in the standard impl.
18:45:20 <ehird> evincar: okay, but why should it be like that?
18:45:39 <evincar> Because execution is cyclical, so it's logical that the code should be treated as such.
18:47:04 <ehird> it is cyclical?
18:47:06 <ehird> that's news to me
18:47:07 <ehird> :))))
18:47:12 * ehird didn't read the spec
18:47:36 <evincar> Ha.
18:47:44 <evincar> It's in the overview.
18:48:16 * evincar slaps ehird with a fish
18:48:36 <ehird> evincar: what is locked
18:48:41 <ehird> oh
18:48:41 <ehird> i see
18:48:45 <ais523> evincar: come over to #ircnomic, then you can Swhack ehird and actually get a point for it if ehird accepts
18:48:50 <ehird> evincar: all but one -- which one
18:49:03 <evincar> KNOB.
18:49:31 <evincar> It's listed under "Special Blocks" as the program entry point.
18:49:42 <ehird> evincar: no knob == crash and burn right
18:49:56 <evincar> Nah. The program just doesn't do anything.
18:50:32 <evincar> KNOB is the only block that's unlocked by default, and since the program executes until there are no more unlocked blocks...
18:50:48 <ehird> evincar: But if you have NO blocks in a progam..
18:50:51 <evincar> it runs through all of the blocks, finds none unlocked, reaches the end, and exits without error.
18:51:05 <evincar> Oh.
18:51:17 <evincar> Then you could include code outside a block.
18:51:22 <evincar> Which would be an error.
18:51:31 <evincar> So there has to be at least one ALL statement in the program.
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19:02:37 <ehird> evincar: What happens when we try to run a locked block?
19:02:49 <evincar> Nothing. We skip it.
19:03:30 <ehird> evincar: How do we know when the program is over?
19:03:46 <evincar> When there exist no unlocked blocks.
19:04:13 <evincar> You can easily keep a running count and terminate when it's zero.
19:04:34 <evincar> Remember that the count only starts at 1 if there is a KNOB block!
19:05:35 <ehird> evincar: OK. All I have to do is implement the real commands now
19:05:35 <ehird> :P
19:05:41 <evincar> Nice.
19:05:44 <evincar> I really appreciate this.
19:05:59 <evincar> It'll serve as a great reference.
19:06:39 <ehird> evincar: A block can stop executing half-way through right?
19:06:48 <evincar> Yes.
19:06:51 <ehird> But you can't go backwards. It's just ------->STOP! Do something else now
19:07:07 <evincar> Using the BECOME or ESCAPE commands.
19:07:09 <evincar> Yes.
19:08:15 <evincar> Should we keep a list of calling blocks instead of just one? Otherwise, recursive functions don't terminate, you can't have nested subs, and other Bad Things.
19:08:24 <ehird> evincar: What register is initially selected
19:08:41 <evincar> NOSE.
19:09:08 <ehird> evincar: OH NOSE!!
19:09:16 <ehird> Zero-Nine
19:09:18 <ehird> I see no NOSE
19:09:29 <ehird> NOSE is a special one.
19:09:30 <ehird> Thingy.
19:09:31 <ehird> Hmm.
19:09:32 <ehird> Could work.
19:09:36 <evincar> Yes.
19:09:39 <ehird> evincar: What happens when you try and like do somethiing with a nose register
19:09:40 <evincar> Meaning NO SElection.
19:09:58 <ais523> ehird: it fails, obviously
19:09:59 <evincar> Raises a NOSE exception and BECOMEs the NOSE block.
19:10:01 <ais523> that's a NOSE error
19:10:40 <evincar> ais523 gets it. ^_^
19:10:52 <ais523> evincar: I actually read the spec
19:10:56 <ehird> evincar: after an exception like NOSE, where do we go?
19:11:00 <ehird> ais523: i'm reading it! ... kinda :<
19:12:24 <evincar> ehird: since the current block BECOMEs the NOSE block, you can either continue to the next block after NOSE has finished executing...
19:12:47 <evincar> ...or include an ESCAPE command in the NOSE block, in which case you jump back to the block you were executing before.
19:12:57 <ehird> evincar: so the next block in relation to the one we were executing before going to the NOSE block?
19:12:59 <evincar> Which is in a different position, I might add.
19:13:00 <ehird> or the one after NOSE?
19:13:20 * ehird dies. This is hard :P
19:13:38 <evincar> The next block in relation to the now-current block, being NOSE, which has taken the position of the block we were executing before.
19:13:48 <evincar> I never claimed it was simple.
19:13:51 <evincar> Oh, wait.
19:13:53 <evincar> Yes I did.
19:13:55 <evincar> In the spec.
19:13:58 <ehird> evincar: tee hee
19:14:14 <evincar> I never claimed it was simple to *implement*!
19:14:25 <evincar> There we go.
19:14:30 <ehird> evincar: So when we want to NOSE around, we move NOSE to where the current block is
19:14:34 <ehird> then carry on as normal, inside NOSE
19:14:43 <ehird> if that is true, then where do we move the current block?
19:14:45 <ehird> where NOSE was?
19:14:48 <evincar> Yes.
19:14:51 <evincar> You've got it!
19:14:55 <evincar> All right.
19:14:58 <evincar> I need to get some food.
19:15:02 <evincar> I'll be on tonight.
19:15:04 <evincar> er.
19:15:07 <evincar> My version of tonight.
19:15:09 <ehird> evincar: YOU MUST NOT LEAVE
19:15:11 <evincar> I'm at GMT-5
19:15:12 <ehird> Whut about me <_<
19:15:22 <evincar> Um.
19:15:22 <ehird> Define tonight
19:15:27 <ehird> For me tonight = post-midnight
19:15:31 <ehird> I assume that's not your definition
19:15:34 <evincar> 8PMish GMT-5
19:16:09 <evincar> so...before 01:00 UTC?
19:16:11 <ehird> evincar: So ... Late, over here, in other words.
19:16:12 <evincar> I think?
19:16:20 <ehird> It's possible I won't be there.
19:16:30 <ehird> also, i'm in the UK
19:16:32 <ehird> and it's DST
19:16:33 <ehird> if that helps
19:17:49 <evincar> Hm.
19:17:58 <evincar> Some time, then.
19:18:02 <ehird> :D
19:18:02 <evincar> I'm outta here.
19:18:03 <ehird> bye :)
19:18:22 <ais523> bye
19:20:31 <evincar> Lates.
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23:22:46 <evincar> Back!
23:24:21 <ehird> evincar: i didn't work on the interp ;<
23:24:23 <ehird> can you forgive me
23:24:26 <ehird> .. it'll work tomorrow
23:24:51 <evincar> ehird: that's quite all right!
23:24:56 <evincar> I'm just happy someone's interested.
23:25:12 <ais523> evincar: I like your language too
23:25:15 <ais523> mostly due to PICK NOSE
23:26:46 <Sgeo> evincar, what's this?
23:26:49 <evincar> It's an abbreviation!
23:27:18 <Sgeo> link pls?
23:27:53 <evincar> I continue to swear!
23:27:55 <evincar> Sgeo: look on the wiki for Selector.
23:27:58 <evincar> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Selector I think
23:28:26 <evincar> The imterpreter is surprisingly difficult to make.
23:28:32 <ehird> ALL KNOB PICK NINE GO FORWARD PICK ZERO YOUR EIGHT PICK NINE MY ONE
23:28:35 <evincar> s/imter/inter/
23:28:40 <ehird> evincar: but i'll have mine by tomorrow ;)
23:29:31 <evincar> ehird: You need a closing GO BACK!
23:30:25 <ehird> evincar: it was just a snippit
23:30:51 <ais523> I GIVE UP 16 points and receive a Level 4 Dance.
23:30:57 <evincar> Snippets should be well-formed.
23:30:58 <ais523> sorry, wrong channel
23:32:22 <evincar> lol
23:34:29 <evincar> Is there some change I can make to the spec that allows me to write, e.g., GentoO is BACK and have it be equivalent to GO BACK? It would require treating whitespace differently from other non-capitals...
23:34:34 <evincar> which I'm disinclined to do.
23:34:59 <ehird> evincar: yes there is
23:35:00 <evincar> I think a programmer could have a lot of fun with that.
23:35:04 <ehird> just state that all lowercase letters are ignored
23:35:05 <ehird> but yeah
23:35:06 <ehird> it would be fun
23:35:10 <ehird> Selector poems
23:36:10 <evincar> I'll make that an option for the interpreter. --poetry-mode
23:36:14 <evincar> ^_^
23:36:30 <ehird> evincar: naww
23:36:32 <ehird> just ignore lowercases
23:36:33 <ehird> also
23:36:36 <ehird> i thought we were collaborating
23:36:39 <ehird> you break my heart! :<
23:37:25 <evincar> We will collaborate.
23:37:32 <evincar> I'm just getting ideas down for a standard impl.
23:37:37 <evincar> Yours is the reference impl.
23:38:06 <ehird> uhh, what's the different
23:38:13 <evincar> Very little.
23:38:15 <evincar> ^_^
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23:38:25 <evincar> But what's the point of being sane when it comes to esoteria?
23:38:29 <evincar> I figure it wouldn't be so hard to compile it to C++...
23:38:34 <evincar> I'll talk about that in a moment.
23:38:37 <evincar> Right now, food!
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23:45:34 <SimonRC> ehird: what the fuck did you say back then?
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23:45:41 <SimonRC> it fucking killed screen
23:46:35 <SimonRC> but only when I tried to scrool back past it
23:46:39 <SimonRC> in irssi
23:46:41 <ehird> SimonRC: a unicode bomb
23:46:45 <SimonRC> what was it?
23:46:46 <ehird> SimonRC: a 100-byte single unicode char
23:46:49 <ehird> abusing modifiers
23:46:54 <SimonRC> um, how does that work?
23:47:00 <calamari> lol
23:47:01 <ehird> SimonRC: you munge loads of modifiers together
23:47:10 <calamari> ehird: can I see it? :)
23:47:15 <SimonRC> I thought that screen passed those straight through?
23:47:21 <ehird> calamari: logs
23:47:23 <ehird> :)
23:47:28 <calamari> ehird: is it intact? :)
23:47:28 <ehird> SimonRC: evidently irssi didn't like it
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23:47:34 <ehird> which made screen die
23:47:35 <ehird> calamari: yep
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23:48:50 <evincar> Back.
23:49:17 <calamari> âe§D
23:49:21 <calamari> was that it?
23:49:31 <ais523> calamari: no
23:49:39 <ais523> it was much bigger than that
23:49:41 <SimonRC> of course, those of you working in ISO-8859-* will be fine
23:49:42 <SimonRC> bah
23:49:46 <calamari> I don't see it I guess
23:50:02 <ais523> let me find the bomb and paste it here again, to see what happens
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23:51:06 <SimonRC> hmm
23:51:26 <ais523> actually, no time for that, I've got to go
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23:51:39 <SimonRC> from the logs, it looks like screen died
23:53:16 <calamari> it's a bunch of chars in the logs, not just one
23:53:51 <calamari> Â·Ì€ÌÌ‚ÌƒÌ„Ì…Ì†Ì‡ÌˆÌ‰ÌŠÌ‹ÌŒÌÌŽÌÌÌ‘Ì’Ì“Ì”Ì•Ì–Ì—Ì˜Ì™ÌšÌ›ÌœÌÌžÌŸÌ Ì¡Ì¢Ì£Ì¤Ì¥Ì¦Ì§Ì¨Ì©ÌªÌ«Ì¬Ì­Ì®Ì¯Ì°Ì±Ì²Ì³Ì´ÌµÌ¶Ì·Ì¸Ì¹ÌºÌ»Ì¼Ì½Ì¾Ì¿Í€ÍÍ‚ÍƒÍ„Í…Í Í¡.·̖̗̘̙̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉̊̋̌̍̎̏̐̑̒̓̔̕Ì
23:53:51 <calamari> šÌ›ÌœÌÌžÌŸÌ ̴̵̶̷̸̡̢̧̨̣̤̥̦̩̪̫̬̭̮̯̰̱̲̳̹̺̻̼̽̾̿̀́͂̓̈́ͅÍ
23:53:53 <Sgeo> Link to the log with the bomb?
23:54:12 <calamari> Sgeo: log is broken, doesn't matter
23:54:13 <Sgeo> That shows up to me as a bunch of gibberish with things that look like I's
23:54:15 <Sgeo> was that the bomb?
23:54:31 <calamari> Sgeo: I guess..
23:55:01 <ehird> no
23:56:08 <calamari> anyways start looking at 09:36:57
23:56:39 <ehird> calamari: that's not the bomb
23:56:43 <ehird> the loggers are broken :)))
23:56:57 <calamari> ehird: so, since it's not in the log.. repost ;)
23:57:00 <SimonRC> I don't think the log is broken
23:57:14 <SimonRC> wgetting then catting the log seems to kill screen sessions
23:57:16 <SimonRC> oh what fun
23:57:24 <bsmntbombdood> irish people!?!
23:57:31 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: yes
23:57:36 <ehird> they are all under arrest
23:57:38 <ehird> for being irish
23:57:43 <ehird> calamari: i have to go now anyway
23:58:09 <calamari> cya ehird
23:58:15 <evincar> later ehird
23:58:54 <ehird> not RIGHT now
23:58:56 <ehird> but in a few minutse
23:58:57 <ehird> :-)
23:59:05 <evincar> ah
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