< 1210204804 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I do not mean anything "Numix" has likely referred to in the past. < 1210204862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Is that good or bad < 1210204899 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that "nomic with root access". < 1210204977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Huh? I don't get it. < 1210204982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you trying to say < 1210205006 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a nomic with root access to some (virtual, I hope) machine? < 1210205045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual ihope - the game < 1210205057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Sure, that's easy enough. < 1210205063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1. Take smallnomic < 1210205066 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be interested in that. < 1210205068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 2. Make a virtual machine < 1210205073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 3. Run smallnomic on that machine as root. < 1210205080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can just build a little shell into smallnomic. < 1210205186 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telnet access to a bashy thing and all that would be nice. < 1210205214 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1210205278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Then it's not a nomic. < 1210205282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's just free-for-all! < 1210205298 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not telnet access to a root account, surely. < 1210205413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: What, exactly, do you want? < 1210205421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nomic played by a regular user account, that proposals are scripts run as root? < 1210205435 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds right. < 1210205475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: So, like, you have < 1210205479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/nomic/bin/propose < 1210205483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might do < 1210205488 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1210205490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ propose < 1210205499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Rename 'propose' to 'monkey'. < 1210205504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filename: foo.py < 1210205506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proposed. < 1210205506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1210205511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat foo.py < 1210205516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env python < 1210205523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# stuff to move 'propose' to 'monkey' < 1210205530 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And presumably, propose copies the proposal to a safe place. < 1210205530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: and /usr/nomic/* is root-editable-only? < 1210205535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210205543 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1210205547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Well, it's interesting. < 1210205552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to forbid network connections < 1210205562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And somehow still hook into it for telnet < 1210205565 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you? < 1210205582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yes, because otherwise seriously illegal things could happen < 1210205585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'd be responsible < 1210205604 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stick a disclaimer on it, then. :-P < 1210205611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Legally meaningless for this. < 1210205620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone downloads something illegal with it, you're fucked. < 1210205644 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like if I download something illegal via Comcast, Comcast is... in trouble? < 1210205695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: that's different < 1210205707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if they refuse to terminate your account it's possible that they are in trouble < 1210205708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1210205710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an isp is not a nomic < 1210205712 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thought was to firewall all ports except 23, 8080, and the Private Ports. < 1210205720 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though obviously, that wouldn't help here. < 1210205750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Just run it in a VM and don't give it a network device. < 1210205750 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't our nomic have the same legal status as an ISP? < 1210205758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then hook into that VM and run a telnetd outside it. < 1210205762 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works, I guess. < 1210205762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Because we're not an ISP < 1210205789 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow incoming connections on ports 23, maybe 80, probably 8080, possibly 6667, and nothing outgoing? < 1210205791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's not like there'd be many good uses for a networky thingy. < 1210205797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Well, here's my idea. < 1210205817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ VM - no networking AT ALL ] <-- [ machine it's running on, is running a telnetd hooking directly into the VM ] < 1210205822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you connect to this one -----------------------------------^ < 1210205828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gets to ^ this one < 1210205921 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1210205982 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should just find a hosting service in Zimbabwe. :-P < 1210206037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1210206095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: smallnomic will be fun, because people will have proposals to add crazy things like refactoring tools < 1210206096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210206186 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1210206200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, don't those who host virtual private servers have immunity like an ISP? < 1210206213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Nope. And their TOS specifically say you're responsible. < 1210206222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're responsible too. < 1210206224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just a guard, really. < 1210206228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's complicated! < 1210206234 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1210206255 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the law is silly, then. < 1210206277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you in different countries? < 1210206280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: What else is new? < 1210206284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Going by US law here. < 1210206290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's really all that matters when the servers are in the US. < 1210206291 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: where are you? < 1210206302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: right, right < 1210206305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the land of rain and crappy techno and indie bands < 1210206306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(england) < 1210206315 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should find a country where the laws aren't silly. < 1210206322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*found < 1210206332 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we can't find it, we'll have to found it. < 1210206341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we already found it. < 1210206347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: esoia < 1210206356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the states: < 1210206363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okoland < 1210206369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdpamatron < 1210206374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1210206377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihopethisisagoodname < 1210206384 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just have to find an uninhabited thingy that we can claim. Or anything else we can buy. < 1210206391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :government: ihope, oklopol, me, gregorr, ais523 < 1210206393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, lament < 1210206399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honorary government: sgeo < 1210206410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you won't like me with authoritah. < 1210206414 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we should host our stuff with HavenCo. :-P < 1210206424 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I only honorary? < 1210206433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thou shalt be knighted < 1210206434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm scared you'll break things < 1210206442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hopefully fake power will keep you happ < 1210206451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psoxia < 1210206463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1210206473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kingdom of Esco!! < 1210206477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(psst, Slereah_, time to make a joke) < 1210206489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants real power < 1210206490 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's give Agora power over something. :-P < 1210206532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the most logical choice would be to let me govern all. < 1210206540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claro. < 1210206568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omgz idea < 1210206571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskellnomic < 1210206577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposals must be type safe! < 1210206682 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First-order-logicnomic. Propose something be done if and only if a certain Turing machine halts. < 1210206746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Very funny :P < 1210206781 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AInomic. < 1210206782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Any opinions on type-safe-haskellnomic? < 1210206785 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1210206793 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably. < 1210206812 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AInomic. "I propose that ehird be awarded a few points." < 1210206823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1210206862 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If this is an apple, every player who voted FOR this proposal gets 10 points. Otherwise, every player who voted AGAINST this proposal gets 10 points." < 1210206873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comgimme some thread titles < 1210206880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1210207045 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you have a good way of hosting servery stuff? < 1210207055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: Yes. < 1210207057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slicehost. < 1210207058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a VPS. < 1210207061 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1210207064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have root. I can do whatever I want with it. < 1210207075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Within the law, of course. < 1210207079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US law, specifically. < 1210209651 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210209696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye for today. :-) < 1210209743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210210993 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210211294 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210211848 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1210211939 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242436569.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1210212933 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1210212933 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1210212973 0 :Tritonio!n=tritonio@150.140.226.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210212973 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210213958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, bye -> < 1210216376 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210216386 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210218358 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210218470 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@75-166-190-148.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210224201 0 :boily!n=boily@bas2-quebec14-1167903482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1210224423 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Schtroumpf!" < 1210224733 0 :Slereah-!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-91-182.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210225846 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210226646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210228135 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1210228138 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAS C-P-U < 1210228144 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT QUAD CORE AND SO CAN'T YOU < 1210228149 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SO FAST AND YOURS SO SLOW < 1210228159 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK IT PROCESS WATCH IT GO < 1210230076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quad core sounds pretty esoteric < 1210232061 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210232090 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1210232192 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-193-16.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1210233599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1210233600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1210235261 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210235266 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210235824 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210235855 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I get my new system up and running, my old system will need to be repurposed. < 1210235879 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody have a suggestion for an experimental/weird/esoteric OS for it? < 1210235988 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210236011 0 :Slereah-!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-91-182.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210238069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought everyone had quad core < 1210238086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except me of course, even this one is too fast for me < 1210239945 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: try coding an OS in BF < 1210239952 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/BF/befunge/g < 1210239961 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or having Befunge/Linux < 1210240045 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the definition of an OS exactly? < 1210240104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that when you press buttons it does smth < 1210240165 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does smth means "receive bacon"? < 1210240230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a dream where my ex gf was begging for sex, and i said "yes", but my current one, who had just done a crazy killing spree with me, as we were trying to escape from the russians, happened to be alive still, to my surprise, so i went to tell my ex there was no way < 1210240257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i didn't even fuck her :| < 1210240287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah-: it is a something < 1210240334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Teletubbies_episodes <<< i. need. to. see. now. < 1210240383 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pushes Buthan < 1210240512 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 seasons? < 1210240512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone knows where to find those, do inform me, i'm dying to have a tt marathon < 1210240519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would seem :| < 1210240524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... wtf xD < 1210240526 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol : Have you tried the internet? < 1210240533 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've tried torrentz.com < 1210242934 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1210243698 0 :Iskr!n=i@87.6.59.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210244525 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210244793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1210244815 0 :Tritonio!n=tritonio@150.140.226.107 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210245345 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210252080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210252774 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-91-182.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210252774 0 :Slereah-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210253789 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1210254840 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210254906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1210254906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210254909 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210254913 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1210254922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1210255506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1210255509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic.st is available < 1210256397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210256649 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-033-052.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210257092 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210257884 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210258768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AnMaster: C-INTERCAL development snapshot is now up at http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal < 1210258803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1210258814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here's how to advertise it < 1210258818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ darcs get http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal < 1210258828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have done already < 1210258841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already applied fixes for the bugs that #esoteric denizens have reported < 1210258845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as several others < 1210258858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: advertised it where? < 1210258863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.lang.intercal < 1210258870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a couple of new features there too < 1210258872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's cool :-) < 1210258877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect about 3 people will use it < 1210258877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the provisial version number is 1.29 < 1210258884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/provisial/provisional/ < 1210258904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure whether to increment the major or minor version number, so in true INTERCAL style I incremented both < 1210258916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your announcement would be funnier without this: < 1210258918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Come to think of it, INTERCAL should not be used in production < 1210258918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code anyway.' < 1210258933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: may as well cover myself legally < 1210258937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1210258957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how many people would try to use INTERCAL in production, but there are sufficiently many idiots on the Internet that it's worth making sure < 1210258971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'i tried intercal .. reminded me of cobol! no digg' < 1210258986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ever seen VHDL? < 1210258989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'how can anyone read this crap??? stupid.. ruby is far better' (+3423 diggs) < 1210259000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me a bit of INTERCAL, but it isn't that bad as a language < 1210259018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PLEASE DO INCREMENT THE VARIABLE COBOL BY ONE GIVING THE VARIABLE COBOL < 1210259023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost an esolang, though, even though it's used for a lot of important programs < 1210259029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ever seen "Hello, world!" in VHDL? < 1210259033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worse than in Java < 1210259039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's a hardware description language < 1210259042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ... suprise? < 1210259045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1210259053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more the amount of verbiage that's needed to do anything < 1210259062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's last on anagolf, or if not last at least near the bottom < 1210259075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, i've been working on smallnomic < 1210259084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in the actual editing sense, but in the 'let's play with shiny seaside' sense < 1210259171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ghdl.free.fr/ghdl/The-hello-word-program.html < 1210259190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, VHDL has an interesting control flow < 1210259200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's non-local but can have bits in sequence, just like INTERCAL < 1210259253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, they should have written a program to flash an LED, that's the hardware equivalent of hello, world < 1210259430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ye < 1210259430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1210259620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, smallnomic. < 1210259621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be awesome. < 1210259652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how many people are involved < 1210259664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: AnMaster: C-INTERCAL development snapshot is now up at http://eso-std.org/darcs/c-intercal < 1210259666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice < 1210259679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however *goes to install darcs again* < 1210259724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a few, i imagine < 1210259737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine one or two squeakers/seasiders and one or two nomicers < 1210259745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, perlnomic kind of activity < 1210259751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bit more, since this'll be easier to do < 1210259756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can just quickly amend a method) < 1210259765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: (if enough people vote on it) < 1210259814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: obviously it'll be based on the number of total users... < 1210259831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, of course < 1210259838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of like the PerlNomic system, actually < 1210259971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes = only way to allow a proposal through, no = disallow it, prevent amending, and punish the submitter, abstain = disallow the proposal but allow amendments and withdrawals without penalty < 1210259979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should really be called something other than 'abstain' < 1210260074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, seaside has fancy lightboxes built-in < 1210260077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add the SULibrary < 1210260079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can do < 1210260085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self lightbox: aWATask < 1210260091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightbox? < 1210260143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the fade-the-screen-to-grey-and-overlay-a-box-on-top-of-it < 1210260146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly annoying, sometimes useful < 1210260150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gksudo < 1210260158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but for the web < 1210260171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a web-based VPN for a moment < 1210260174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the most common usage is for image on-clicks < 1210260176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda annoying < 1210260177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox/ < 1210260189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can see it useful in smallnomic < 1210260189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for e.g. < 1210260193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you do 'self inform: 'foo'' in seaside < 1210260197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces the whole current component < 1210260201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then an OK brings it back < 1210260203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda ugly < 1210260211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lightbox could just grey out the smallnomic screen and show the confirmation in the middle < 1210260215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then go back after an OK < 1210260225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you have to aim it at something other than self, in that case? < 1210260259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1210260268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAComponent>>lightbox: expects a WATask < 1210260277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'll have to do some monkeypatching to add a lightbox for blocks < 1210260314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should really just be a generic inform message that always aims at the same global-like object, sort of like alert in JavaScript < 1210260432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1210260435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can probably do that < 1210260438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember? you can change anything in smalltalk < 1210260447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/smalltalk/smallnomic/ < 1210260447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& brutally modifying other package's methods is good practice :-) < 1210260448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun! < 1210260454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: latter only because the first < 1210260466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there should be a message you can send to an object to tell it to change its own methods < 1210260475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, knowing Smalltalk, there probably is < 1210260546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is, i believe < 1210260557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is the language where 'true become: false' doesn't throw an error < 1210260563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless crashing is throwing an error i guess) < 1210260573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need that necessarily crash? < 1210260586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, since an awful lot of things use boolean values < 1210260587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you've written your code carefully enough, it should be able to cope with true becoming false < 1210260598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you're joking, you're being very funny < 1210260602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, i want to kill you < 1210260603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210260614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking, pretty much < 1210260625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if you could compile Forte into Smalltalk < 1210260762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, because the lower layers kinda depend on numbers < 1210260797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are those lower layers unavoidably needed in Smalltalk? Is it possible to write a program without them, or are they a necessary part of the language? < 1210260846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could write a program without them but you'd end up reimplementing them or you wouldn't be able to write anything useful < 1210260857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what you could do - < 1210260860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ForteInteger < 1210260862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just holds an integer < 1210260863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1210260868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aForteInteger become: anotherForteInteger < 1210260869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was thinking along those lines < 1210260871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then the integers themselves are okay < 1210260874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the forte integers change < 1210260875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work fine < 1210260877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't you need an infinite number of them? < 1210260890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just create them when you need them < 1210260894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cache them in a dictionary < 1210260910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so it would be similar to interpreting Forte < 1210260912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'course then you could just change the value in the dictionary < 1210260913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey. < 1210260950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one thing about smalltalk i'm finding is that it's terribly fun < 1210260956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no 'best practices' malarky for the most part < 1210260965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna change some behaviour in a framework to how you like it, go ahead < 1210260977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monticello recognizes your monkey patches and even version controls them < 1210260979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all great < 1210260986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk really needs to be better known < 1210260995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may even learn it at some point < 1210261002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know vaguely how it works, but have never written in it < 1210261096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is my fisrt real smalltalk app! < 1210261102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm lovin' it < 1210261121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never really liked hand-holding frameworks, but half of the html in these pages is completely generated by seaside < 1210261123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's lovely < 1210261181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay! lightboxBlock: works < 1210261188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self lightboxBlock: [:e | e confirm: 'really?'] < 1210261211 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210261395 0 :Iskr!n=i@host254-52-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210261946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one of the hardest things will be duplicating the smalltalk editor in html :-P < 1210261952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first thing i'll do is make the tab key insert a real tab < 1210261958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(squeak actually uses real-live tabs for indentation!) < 1210261970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is all nice and fine because of its closed-world view, it can be so idealistic) < 1210261975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then make tabs display as 4 spaces < 1210262043 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : RandalSchwartz: all editors suck < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/editors/software/ < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/suck/sucks/ < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/software// < 1210262062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/all/everything/ < 1210262370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'll like this, < 1210262372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk has no statements < 1210262379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 + (x := 3). "5" < 1210262381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x. "3" < 1210262392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I like that < 1210262404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although assignment's an expression in many langs with separate expressions and statements < 1210262450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, of course, smalltalk has no syntax for classes or anything < 1210262452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1210262458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even the class creation is an >expression<) < 1210262462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just send a message: < 1210262474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I really do like that sort of style < 1210262477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Class>>subclass:instanceVariableNames:classVariableNames:poolDictionaries:category: < 1210262477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1210262480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is elegant in the ais523 sense < 1210262510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the ehird sense < 1210262523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's doubly elegant < 1210262534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1210262547 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210262603 0 :Iskr!n=i@host254-52-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210263383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seaside is insufferably fun < 1210263668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, some people in #seaside are dumb < 1210263672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssastre> so what is you question then? < 1210263672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ssastre: how do i, given a regular form with a submit button, change the button so that when the browser can do javascript, it runs my ajax updator and doesn't submit < 1210263673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but if we don't support JS, we just do it like it was before < 1210263676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are you sure that is possible at all? < 1210263690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was like ... the second article anyone wrote after ajax was popularized :\ < 1210263701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible, obviously < 1210263710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way you do it is to write the button as a normal submit < 1210263721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use JavaScript to change it to an AJAXy button once you load < 1210263731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1210263733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how you do it < 1210263747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
...
< 1210263751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you do it < 1210263759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another way to do it < 1210263760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(return false; = don't submit this) < 1210263765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the most common, robust wya < 1210263766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1210264149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks slightly ugly to me, but I can understand how that's robust and works < 1210264164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you write a js that sets it based on the form id < 1210264166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-obtrusive JS < 1210264167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1210264187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that could break it that I can think of would be a browser that supported a scripting language, but didn't support JavaScript, and how many of those are there? < 1210264428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should I make the counter shared across users? < 1210264429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1210264440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1210264447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do anything useful anyway < 1210264478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just to toy around with updating it via ajax < 1210264502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what about race conditions? < 1210264603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, my 'the most pointless website ever' didn't care about 'em < 1210264607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it didn't support decrements < 1210264620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wasn't the counter per-user? < 1210264625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no.. < 1210264627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was global < 1210264632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you had per-user totals < 1210264634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it had highscores, and the count got above 2 million < 1210264949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm < 1210264957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to implement a SNComponent < 1210264967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which requires things like a 'component slug' < 1210264975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if it's 'bite', you get /nomic/bite?_k=asdasd < 1210264981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so that all entry points have unique urls < 1210264986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1210265003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good idea? < 1210265007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should i KISS < 1210265014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1210265119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm < 1210265125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I make the slug part of the subclassing call? < 1210265142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNComponent subClass: #SNFoo instanceVariblahblah: ...; slug: 'bite'; ... < 1210265273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no opinions? < 1210265278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210265282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Seaside < 1210265295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not that interested in making original design decisions for smallnomic < 1210265402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bah ;) < 1210265629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think i'll map classnames to urls < 1210265640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNScrapCounter inside Nomic-Scraps-Seaside: < 1210265645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/scraps/scrap-counter < 1210265651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just ignore me if you want < 1210265651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1210265665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, more or less, until you talk about something I'm more interested in < 1210265683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how voting should work :P < 1210265700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the PerlNomic system < 1210265707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a little hard to explain to new users < 1210266037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is < 1210266038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1210266109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210266126 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210266419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, anyone here tried out the development C-INTERCAL snapshot yet? < 1210266439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1210266440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about to < 1210266444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that it doesn't build first-time on Solaris (although it's always required a bit of manual hacking to work with Solaris lex) < 1210266450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be OK on most other platforms < 1210266458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I know of < 1210266460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think ANYBODY here uses solaris :-) < 1210266471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I do sometimes when I don't have my laptop on me < 1210266477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a choice between that or Windows < 1210266480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why are your short descriptions one words? < 1210266482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do < 1210266484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Initial commit. < 1210266487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add the floobdoob again. < 1210266487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I did after a while < 1210266493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was just getting used to darcs < 1210266496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: alright < 1210266503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just convention to make them brief full sentences < 1210266523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: convention? Why did you expect C-INTERCAL to follow convention? < 1210266552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-) < 1210266566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the one who said that eso compilers don't have to be eso < 1210266573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1210266573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv .c temp/lexer.c < 1210266574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `.c': No such file or directory < 1210266586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1210266628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -O2 -W -Wall -g -O2 -DICKINCLUDEDIR=\"/usr/local/include/ick-1.29\" -DICKDATADIR=\"/usr/local/share/ick-1.29\" -DICKBINDIR=\"/usr/local/bin\" -DICKLIBDIR=\"/usr/local/lib\" -DYYDEBUG -DICK_HAVE_STDINT_H=1 -I./src -I./temp -c -o temp/parser.o temp/parser.c < 1210266628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y: src/lexer.l < 1210266628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -f temp/lexer.c < 1210266628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv .c temp/lexer.c < 1210266629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: cannot stat `.c': No such file or directory < 1210266631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [temp/lexer.c] Error 1 < 1210266682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something went wrong with the configure, then < 1210266688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to move @LEX_OUTPUT_ROOT@.c < 1210266697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason it didn't determine what the output root was < 1210266708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reconfiguring; what does it say about lex? < 1210266719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for flex... no < 1210266719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for lex... no < 1210266726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: prey tell why you don't die when they're not there? < 1210266795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, it's to do with the prebuilt versions < 1210266808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're there specifically for DJGPP systems without lex < 1210266821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well .. still < 1210266823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems they're interfering with the build from a dev snapshot < 1210266846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to look into this < 1210266880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime, install lex and reconfigure and it should work < 1210266887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick works < 1210266908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how did it end up working if the compile failed? < 1210266915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you using an old version of ick? < 1210266923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should add a display-version command < 1210266959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i installed flex < 1210267001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's not the prebuilt versions interfering < 1210267008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's worse than that < 1210267024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that autoconf replaces the lex command with a null string if lex isn't found < 1210267034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lex line isn't a syntax error... < 1210267050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just get it to bail out if it can't find a version of lex, somehow < 1210267275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads the autoconf documentation < 1210267288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to now, I'd been working on a really old version of the documentation, 'twould be nice to read a newer copy < 1210267839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A=4 < 1210267850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: context? < 1210267865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context={#A: 4} < 1210267902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you say a random Smalltalk expression, then? < 1210267956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was not a random smalltalk expression < 1210267967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you say that smalltalk expression, then? < 1210268215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is not a smalltalk expression < 1210268221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is it, then? < 1210268236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not < 1210268247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's not even a valid smalltalk expr, fwiw) < 1210268255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's :=... or right arrow <-, in ASCII as _) < 1210268259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is A, then, and why is it 4? < 1210268268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assumed = was comparison because assignment was := < 1210268293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1210268295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is comparison < 1210268300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but context={#A: 4} < 1210268305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implies that i was assigning to a variable < 1210268313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now continue prompting me with 'expr?' < 1210268319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr? < 1210268349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'context?' was one < 1210268351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not literally < 1210268364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but I have to have some idea of what you want me to do < 1210268457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, ask me 'context?' again < 1210268461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context? < 1210268461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my previous one was wrong < 1210268470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as bad as #irp < 1210268478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{a: 4, context: {a: 4, context: {a:4, context: [stack overflow] < 1210268484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210268491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack? < 1210268526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinkedList(Context>>viewStack, Empty) < 1210268540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic? < 1210268566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Nomic < 1210268583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinkedList? < 1210268621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LinkedList < 1210268629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true? < 1210268665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true 'dat < 1210268683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought you'd caused true to become false earlier < 1210268700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true 'dat < 1210268714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'dat? < 1210268723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[syntax error] < 1210268725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210268731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dat? < 1210268770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive structure of Great Meaning < 1210268777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive? < 1210268813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive < 1210268824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal LOL, again... < 1210268831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twisty little passageway? < 1210268854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a maze of them, all alike < 1210268879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super(twisty little passageway)? < 1210268915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[syntax error, expecting message send, found '('] < 1210268917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210268926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :version? < 1210268949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2i < 1210268958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRP? < 1210268966 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210268989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid shit that I would never participate in < 1210269009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that little conversation looked like a strange mix of Smalltalk and IRP to me < 1210269019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to Smalltalk itself, that's an ugly concept < 1210269025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[humour error] < 1210269027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210269036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got the humour < 1210269042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you haven't got the cake yet < 1210269043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but was getting bored of the thread < 1210269045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, what did I just say! < 1210269059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have a ton of objects you can send messages to < 1210269062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake: areYouALie? < 1210269080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is that the right syntax?) < 1210269081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[syntax error] < 1210269084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210269090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe try just 'cake' < 1210269094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210269095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake? < 1210269098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a NiceTry < 1210269118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you send a message and get a result back from it? < 1210269123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the syntax < 1210269128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's invisible < 1210269137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'thing message' < 1210269139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'thing message: arg' < 1210269142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1210269145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'thing message: arg foo: arg' (message is actually message:foo:) < 1210269153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake becomes: delicious. < 1210269169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[invalid 'a become: a'] < 1210269170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210269177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try the passageways and the nomic object < 1210269186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic becomes: delicious. < 1210269203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: become: actually < 1210269205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: < 1210269211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Nomics are already delicious. Duh.] < 1210269212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset. < 1210269219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(try 'nomic players') < 1210269224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic players? < 1210269244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Set (YOU) < 1210269252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[error: wrong result] < 1210269253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Set (YOU, cake) < 1210269312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ais523 ping error] < 1210269312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake proposeContract: contractid1 players: {me, cake} text: "conspire against ehird"? < 1210269353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[NiceTrys do not respond to proposeContract.] < 1210269359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[And "" is a comment.] < 1210269365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a string? < 1210269368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single quotes? < 1210269370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Single quotes.] < 1210269381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Also, {me, cake} should be Set with: me with: cake] < 1210269391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same arg twice? < 1210269392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[And maybe you should change the id into a title.] < 1210269395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of clever, too < 1210269398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it actually sends with:with: < 1210269411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with: a ^(self new) add: a; yourself < 1210269416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with: a with: b ^(self new) add: a; add: b; yourself < 1210269416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1210269416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a Set object, which is responsible for creating sets < 1210269420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210269428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do a 'variadic with' though < 1210269438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk ought to be classified as an esolang < 1210269442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care if it's used seriously < 1210269450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just far too elegant to be a mainstream language < 1210269466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: truth < 1210269475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's elegant *and* useful! < 1210269476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect < 1210269482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, though, it's not mainstream ;) < 1210269502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mainstream" as in "not esoteric" < 1210269512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it did become truly popular, what do you think would happen? < 1210269518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Visual Smalltalk.NET? < 1210269530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders at the thought of Smalltalk bindings to the Win32 API < 1210269536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they exist, I believe < 1210269538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but abstracted < 1210269540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VW Smalltalk < 1210269542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1210269554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really < 1210269555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what < 1210269611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, imagine sending a Smalltalk message to CreateProcessEx < 1210269621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one other thing, what happens if you write the args in a different order? < 1210269624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, that's evil < 1210269629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... < 1210269630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails < 1210269642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing part1: x part2: y part3: z < 1210269644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is really sugar for < 1210269655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send #part1:part2:part3: to thing, with args #(x y z) < 1210269657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if they were reordered if there wasn't a match otherwise < 1210269663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except that you can't literally put it in #() < 1210269666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is the basic idea < 1210269668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1210269676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyword arguments are just sugar, really < 1210269678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's simpler this way < 1210269679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Microsoft Visual Smalltalk.NET?" < 1210269681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that < 1210269689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't exist AFAIK < 1210269694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles it just to make sure < 1210269732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but the idea... -_ < 1210269734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1210269763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1210269764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smallscript.org/ < 1210269780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their language S# appears to be an extension of Smalltalk over .NET < 1210269785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well there is FORTH for .NET too < 1210269789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear < 1210269807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Smallscript provides a valuable development environment on the .NET Framework", said John Montgomery, group product manager for the Microsoft.NET Framework at Microsoft Corp. "Microsoft is excited to be working with Smallscript Corp. to offer developers of Smalltalk and other languages a productive, reliable, easy-to-use platform for building and deploying cross-language applications and Web services." < 1210269813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Site last updated: April 8, 2004" < 1210269813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gemstone.com/ this is a better smalltalk company ;) < 1210269817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that whole thing is a quote < 1210269826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.gemstone.com/products/smalltalk/) < 1210269911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worse < 1210269912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc301882.aspx < 1210269920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-F on "smalltalk" < 1210269933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's describing the same thign < 1210269937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/gn/ng/ < 1210269945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL for .NET? APL for .NET? Smalltalk for .NET? < 1210269947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W T F < 1210269959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, after all, .NET's just a VM really < 1210269971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and a bloated crap runtime < 1210269983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dataman is publishing Delta Forth .NET, a simplified dialect of the Forth programming language. < 1210269988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess by simplified < 1210269990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can just about understand people targeting it, especially if they're easily influenced by Microsoft < 1210269990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean complexified < 1210269992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it has GC. < 1210269994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers a lean runtime, just there to handle the "talk to OS bit" < 1210269995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And abstractions. < 1210269999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's 'simpler'. < 1210270002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like libc is mostly < 1210270019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: simpler implementation, or simpler to code? < 1210270021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I knew about Delta Forth before < 1210270025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is open source < 1210270028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly! < 1210270038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth's simplicity is in both < 1210270039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not like C-INTERCAL, where garbage collection makes a semantic difference to the language < 1210270042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have the low level stuff < 1210270046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then layer tiny abstractions on top < 1210270057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet delta forth has 'big abstractions' < 1210270060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no low level stuff < 1210270077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth is its implementation, really. < 1210270093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean by that that there's only one sane way to implement the language? < 1210270109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you implement it another way i'd hesitate to call it forth < 1210270119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it accepts the same programs? < 1210270129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1210270151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that imply that Forth can't be compiled into high-level languages < 1210270155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it wouldn't be Forth if you did? < 1210270199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it would be forth < 1210270201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wouldn't call it forth < 1210270225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives me a silly idea for an add-on feature to a silly esolang < 1210270231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be compiled into any language except C < 1210270241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becaues the name of the original language changes if you compile it into C < 1210270246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you really compiled a different language < 1210270254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha < 1210270261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even do that? < 1210270267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1210270277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but half the players in Agora would try < 1210270287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at least it's not like C-INTERCAL, where garbage collection makes a semantic difference to the language < 1210270290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were an esonomic < 1210270290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1210270291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1210270323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: backtracking past the point where you multithreaded kills the current thread unless it's the last remaining thread to be alive at that point < 1210270328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :threads need to be garbage-collected < 1210270341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as aggressively as possible, too, or the program might quit for no reason < 1210270349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1210270354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C-INTERCAL, you can backtrack past a fork() < 1210270394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malcom Ryan wrote the semantics for INTERCAL backtracking and multithreading, by the way, I just coded most of it (apart from the original multithreading code, which I ignored and made my own version of anyway) < 1210270577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1210271135 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210271243 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210271246 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210271779 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-aur-fe99dd00-179.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1210273327 0 :helios24!n=helios@Le31b.l.pppool.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210273873 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1210273883 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-038-200.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210277853 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210279618 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210280079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1210280436 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210281918 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210282038 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1210283907 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210284050 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People of Esoteria. < 1210284063 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Recursive Functions of Symbolic Expressions and Their Computation by Machine Part II exist? < 1210284067 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only find part 1. < 1210284151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Maybe < 1210284361 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, is Quote necessary in the basic Lisp? < 1210284372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: you can simulate it with macros < 1210284389 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on a theoretical level. < 1210284398 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything seemed just dandy without it. < 1210284414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need something to construct your new objects out of < 1210284416 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have no idea what's the minimal for TCness. < 1210284426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quote isn't needed, although you need a stock of objects to manipulate < 1210284431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you can't actually /do/ anything < 1210284438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, atoms can be that stock of objects < 1210284444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't normally need to be quoted < 1210284447 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does QUOTE create objects? < 1210284468 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210284473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: it's a special form that just reads its args literally and makes them an object < 1210284480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so by definition, more or less < 1210284495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be possible to start with loads of atoms and cons them all together into an object, I think < 1210284498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tedious < 1210284512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less the same way that it's possible to write Underload without nested parens < 1210284549 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guy was telling me how quote was totally necessary. < 1210284565 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that in M form, parenthesis worked like quote. < 1210284578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point is that atoms are self-quoting < 1210284583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1210284589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it depends on the situation < 1210284611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does lisp try to evaluate atoms on the RHS of an expression, or just leave them as-is? I can never remember < 1210284611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: all you need is lambda, really < 1210284612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apply < 1210284614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's TC < 1210284616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp is just everything else < 1210284620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: evaluate < 1210284624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210284631 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : Well, lambda is TC by itself < 1210284640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you'd need some other way to get a stock of unevaluating atoms < 1210284651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no, you need apply, that's in the lambda calculus too < 1210284672 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes < 1210284692 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can Lisp be TC with just the cons-car-cdr-eq-atom-cond? < 1210284702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does atom do? < 1210284702 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a buttload of atoms < 1210284710 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other variables < 1210284726 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom returns T or F, depending on the atomicity of the variable < 1210284729 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atomicitude < 1210284731 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atomicism < 1210284810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I imagine you could manage a BF to LISP like that compiler < 1210284819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you could somehow set up a loop < 1210284863 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the original paper, it was possible to do recursion < 1210284870 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess < 1210284871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy with recursion, but you didn't put anything that could define a function in your list < 1210284899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it may still be possible with the Underload/Unlambda :^/``sii trick < 1210284907 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there's function definition < 1210284916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have function definition it's easy, I think < 1210284925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apply is in the syntax of the language < 1210284925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1210284930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and function definition can simulate lambdas < 1210284936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no it can't < 1210284944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it can simulate them well enough for these purposes < 1210284949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way < 1210284958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic evaluation method of scheme < 1210284966 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/recursive/img100.png < 1210284967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apply (eval (car expr)) (map eval (cdr expr))) < 1210285007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC: < 1210285074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (tc expr) (cond ((eq? (car expr) 'lambda) (lambda (x) (replace (cadr expr) x (cddr expr)))) (else (apply (eval (car expr)) (map eval (cdr expr))))) < 1210285093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define replace to replace all occurences with the other < 1210285100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's a function with the arg equal to the atom < 1210285103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's left alone < 1210285116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a Scheme interp in Scheme? < 1210285121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, an LC interp < 1210285126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the definition of replace that i quoted < 1210285129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1210285131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict LC interp < 1210285134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LC? < 1210285138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lambda calculus < 1210285141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lambda calculus < 1210285149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you'd mistyped an acronym for Common Lisp for a moment < 1210285150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, if you give the definition of replace I stated, < 1210285159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's call-by-value LC < 1210285167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can specify multiple values in the application < 1210285174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it'll just trigger an error < 1210285181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1210285184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call-by-value LC is easier to write in, I think, because it doesn't need a quote < 1210285194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you end up in an infinite evaluation loop < 1210285197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, neither does any other kind < 1210285202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: regular LC is lazy. < 1210285205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1210285205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs no quote < 1210285207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1210285222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Y combinator is ugly in call-by-value < 1210285232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call-by-value LC destroys eta-reduction basically < 1210285536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoop < 1210285594 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIBBIDIBAH < 1210285764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Gonna make the browser more advanced in a sec < 1210286245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1210286255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1210286296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1210286311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's do sierpinski < 1210286322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, I need to concentrate right now < 1210286330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to defend myself against an Agoran criminal case < 1210286338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one person doesn't like scammers... < 1210286384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry for your loss < 1210286389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, this is fun < 1210286391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll miss you < 1210286470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby request to be listed as an observer of Agora Nomic. < 1210286474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sthat even valud < 1210286477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*valid < 1210286479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210286483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they keep track of people who are watching < 1210286571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I bet they'd be nicer if it wasn't a n00b who was having some luck with a clever scam < 1210286787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Email erez make 'em activate < 1210286795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why don't you do that? < 1210286805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you ask me to, in other words? < 1210286838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quite busy right now < 1210286842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I < 1210286844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you were the one who < 1210286851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sauid that they woul < 1210286852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's email them later, when less busy < 1210286856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dn't actibsyr < 1210286861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dn' t activate < 1210290696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""