< 1210291338 0 :atsampso1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210292141 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1210293888 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210294869 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210296363 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210296672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye :) < 1210296726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210298270 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210298305 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210301004 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210303559 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1210304221 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210307089 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1210307268 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210307877 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210309258 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=saru@219-88-193-16.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1210310076 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210310486 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210311230 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When I return, I will be logging in from my new system!" < 1210312114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1210313610 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210314125 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1210315103 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210315352 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210316710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210318754 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210319999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1210320000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1210321143 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210321143 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210323003 0 :Iskr!n=i@host125-18-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210323153 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210323869 0 :Iskr_!n=i@host41-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210324200 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210324226 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1210326885 0 :helios24!n=helios@Ldbe0.l.pppool.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1210330710 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1210333067 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210333532 0 :Iskr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210333573 0 :Iskr_!n=i@host41-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210335384 0 :helios24!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210336193 0 :i__!n=i@host253-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210336384 0 :Iskr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210336391 0 :i__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Iskra < 1210336392 0 :Iskra!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Iskr < 1210337008 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1210337168 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210337179 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210338086 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210338146 0 :Iskr!n=i@host253-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210340236 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210340516 0 :ais523!n=ais523@pw01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1210340889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hello < 1210340893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squeak just did the most retarded thing < 1210340894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1210340896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had saved and quitted yesterday < 1210340898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I start it up < 1210340900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of changes are gone < 1210340905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've gone into the recent log < 1210340908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm selecting all non-conflicting ones < 1210340909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hand < 1210340917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I'm gonna hope that thy apply cleanly < 1210340918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1210340935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now, if only you'd been saving your programs in a text file... < 1210340956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i'm pretty sure this is just a squeak bug < 1210340962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1210340965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my editor had a weird bug then it'd happen too, ais523 < 1210340969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're vulnerable to bugs in a system when you're locked into it < 1210340974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it's probably that I just did it wrong < 1210340984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't see a weird bug affecting my backups as well as the original < 1210340989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, i have an idea - let's spin everything into an argument as to how locked-in systems suck < 1210340993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not unless it was very weird < 1210341017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not everything, only when you're blatantly asking for it < 1210341143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, there is a discussion in spanish going on in #squeak < 1210341147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very interesting.. < 1210341148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anway, let's stop that line of discussion so as not to degenerate into another argument < 1210341159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about your JS/Smalltalk mix < 1210341163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you just start with one object < 1210341166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually < 1210341170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Self/Smalltalk mix < 1210341174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1210341176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an Io/Smalltalk mix < 1210341183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but JS is a kind of class/prototype mix < 1210341201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I planned a tarpit based on that on the way here < 1210341217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of calling it Feather, because it's so lightweight compared to most Smalltalks < 1210341219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool < 1210341222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea wasn't tarpitty < 1210341227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was minimalist < 1210341233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wanted to keep it in the VM style < 1210341243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my language has an unusual feature: it wouldn't work properly if it wasn't a tarpit < 1210341245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, to still compile it to vm bytecode < 1210341248 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210341250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can build on it as you like < 1210341255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and then do the smalltalk thing of writing the vm in a restricted subset < 1210341258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be compiled to c < 1210341283 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210341312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major problem with instantiating objects from objects is the mess that makes of reflection < 1210341320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't < 1210341323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you *clone* objects < 1210341336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the same thing in my tarpit < 1210341341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloning is instantiatino < 1210341351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1210341355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instantiation doesn't mean anything < 1210341357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a prototype system < 1210341361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_%28programming_language%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28programming_language%29 < 1210341364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read 'er up < 1210341380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a slightly unusual way to make it mean something, inspired by TwoDucks < 1210341448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders when someone who speaks english will enter #squeak and tell me wtf it just did last night
< 1210342040 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... mean something, inspired by twoducks? < 1210342051 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something you don't hear everyday. < 1210342112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Self uses delegation in order to handle inheritance changes after the fact < 1210342141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my method doesn't < 1210342161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check out Io < 1210342228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Io's method is likely what my method would be optimised into < 1210342258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my language, instead, when you add a method to a class (or a property, they're the same thing in my language), the program goes back in time and works out what would have happened if the change was made when the object was created < 1210342264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/class/object/ < 1210344263 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210344301 0 :Iskr!n=i@host253-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210344546 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, in Batman Begins. < 1210344567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Guys, in Batman Begins. < 1210344577 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't the microwaves fry the people, and why are they worried about hallucinogens instead of about breathing raw boiling water < 1210344581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Guys, in Batman Begins. < 1210344597 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those people have no priorities. < 1210344656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Those people have no priorities. < 1210345642 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host65-82-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210346805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I think Feather has to be lazy, to prevent it infinite-looping in loads of common cases < 1210346848 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather? < 1210346870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an esolang I'm planning, based on Smalltalk, Io and TwoDucks < 1210346881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to get it down to the computable level < 1210346895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is dealing sensibly with causation loops < 1210346990 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need any flux capacitatorN < 1210346999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it would help < 1210347012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is this: < 1210347015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you define an Array class < 1210347033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you want to retroactively change the clone method on the original object to do something involving Arrays < 1210347320 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210350273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210350290 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210353609 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210354527 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210354529 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@ppp-70-226-162-213.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1210356490 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210356524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1210356527 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1210358472 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@AMarseille-151-1-11-241.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210358927 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1210358928 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@AMarseille-151-1-11-241.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210358985 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1210359004 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@AMarseille-151-1-11-241.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210359082 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1210359098 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@AMarseille-151-1-11-241.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210359647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )" < 1210359853 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210359899 0 :Iskr!n=i@host253-86-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1210360214 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a link posted here once, about what was said to be a simple introduction to pi calculus < 1210360218 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does someone still have it? < 1210361284 0 :Tritonio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210361577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, hm pi caculus? < 1210361590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :related to the famous irrational number in any way? < 1210361611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi calculus. < 1210361611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1210361611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_calculus < 1210361642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems complex < 1210361659 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to read the original paper, but I'm not familiar with calculus of communicating systems. < 1210361742 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1210361806 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's apparently based on communicating informations between participants through links. < 1210361950 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently restrictions of informations along some links < 1210362017 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is, I'm not understanding much of the notation. < 1210362713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1210363225 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210364305 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1210364752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, interesting < 1210364788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, grep the logs maybe? < 1210364921 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210364972 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-91-182.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210365159 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : Already tried < 1210366565 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, there's actually books on pi calculus on emule < 1210366583 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's because apparently, it's used a lot in models for economic thingies. < 1210366607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what happened to ehird
< 1210366615 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eaten by a grue. < 1210366626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the no route to host < 1210366636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get decent Internet access from inside a grue < 1210366816 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Robert Milner Web hottest videos personal player" < 1210366829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that spam? < 1210366829 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that isn't the pi calculus book I was looking for. < 1210366834 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is < 1210366862 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emule takes your researched terms and returns porn spam, even if it makes no sense < 1210366879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of strange website is that? < 1210366900 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emule, the peer to peer software. < 1210368266 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qdb.us/167654 < 1210368312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I think that's the first time I've been pastebinned < 1210368420 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, this isn't funny D: < 1210368430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it was to GregorR < 1210368438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: explain? < 1210368727 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pi calculus book? I was about to say it sounded interesting, but then I realized that pi calculus isn't pi and calculus. < 1210368775 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pie and calculus. < 1210368852 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I think I know why I'm not writing a proof of the intermediate value theorem right now. < 1210368902 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a nerd? < 1210368966 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would people who aren't nerds be writing a proof of the intermediate value theorem right now? < 1210369015 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Which is why I gave it as a reason. < 1210369032 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210369042 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there are people who would do < 1210369048 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are called mathematicans < 1210369057 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mathematicians are nerds. < 1210369103 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then describe me your definition of nerd, please < 1210369190 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See : kar8nga < 1210369213 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point *g < 1210369315 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that went a bit by me (at least by the definition secured at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd) < 1210369327 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to sports and check back later < 1210369393 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210369790 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210369962 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians don't normally write proofs of the intermediate value theorem < 1210370092 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they doing? < 1210370229 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof of the Intermediate Value Theorem: if there were an excluded value, the set of excluded values would be open, which is impossible. < 1210370279 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that "open and non-empty"/ < 1210370343 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, that uses the excluded middle, which isn't a constructive proof D: < 1210370500 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The excluded middle isn't a constructive proof? < 1210370514 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1210372005 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1210372125 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that discussed the version on the reals, which is not really showing the point - I prefer the topological version < 1210372166 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that go? < 1210372193 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know what a topology is? < 1210372200 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1210372248 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then take f: (X,T) -> (Y,S) < 1210372262 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume f is continuous, then? < 1210372268 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210372270 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X the space < 1210372278 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T the topology on X < 1210372319 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f is continous with respect to T an S if forall A in S: f^{-1}(A)\in T < 1210372325 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the tex notation < 1210372355 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1210372369 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so continuity is just a topology preserving mapping < 1210372378 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the topological version of the sentence, then? < 1210372391 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which one? < 1210372476 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intermediate value theorem. < 1210372491 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For every continuous function f from [a,b] to a subset of R, the image of f contains all real numbers from f(a) to f(b)", I suppose. < 1210372517 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210372532 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take the "natural" topologies on R < 1210372564 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are based on open sets: I think in R this is called the \epsilon-\delta criterion < 1210372587 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f: A -> B cont (A,B \subset R) <=> < 1210372587 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ordinary, usual, common, standard, regular topology on R? :-) < 1210372593 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210372618 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just the intermediate value theorem stated topologically? < 1210372636 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit more general < 1210372648 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because R is strictly ordered < 1210372660 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can speak about something like "intermediate value" < 1210372688 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of topologies on function spaces < 1210372736 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are far more unamenable to such analysis: which function is bigger? f(x)=1 or f(x)=x^2 ? < 1210372751 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1210372787 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can still have a topology there and therefore continuous functions < 1210372812 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point of continuous function is in the end that you can do the following: < 1210372841 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lim x->y f(x) = f(lim x -> y) = f(y) < 1210372855 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, easy on to visualize on R < 1210372875 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1210372890 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a topology allows for a more general notion of convergence and then you are really happy of you have somewhere continuous functions < 1210372902 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that explained a bit the thing < 1210372915 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it did. < 1210372949 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other question < 1210372954 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason why I came here < 1210372984 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone here working at the moment at any objectoriented esolangs? < 1210373001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends if you consider Smalltalk-like languages object-oriented < 1210373016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the topological form (1) the image of a connected set under a continuous function is connected (2) a subset of R is connected iff it contains every value between any two elements
< 1210373017 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object-oriented esolangs. Fun stuff. < 1210373030 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make some object-oriented topological esolang, shall we? :-P < 1210373066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) is not restricted to R of course < 1210373079 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that is a nice form. < 1210373111 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading and readin < 1210373120 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still don't know what the fuck is an object :o < 1210373140 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, but (1) only again works on strictly ordered spaces < 1210373152 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider a holomorphic function < 1210373177 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C->C < 1210373183 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sorry, there it works < 1210373185 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way < 1210373196 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C is separable < 1210373219 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concede: (1) works in any separable topological space < 1210373220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kar8nga: no, it works for any topological space. it's just that connected sets may be rare in some spaces < 1210373232 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: I'd define an object as a value in memory that belongs to some class. < 1210373274 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The class lists its properties (but not their values) and defines its methods. < 1210373302 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could be - now is the point where I would have to look up my old notes (topology is not my speciality, I admit) < 1210373350 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: smalltalk is definitely object-oriented for me < 1210373368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ehird's making a smalltalk-like language which is possibly not an esolang < 1210373372 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee. I'm having a sudden urge to integrate Brownian motion. :-P < 1210373374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proof is really simple: if the image is not connected then it can be divided into two relatively open sets. but then so must the domain. < 1210373377 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't have to be class-based < 1210373378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm thinking about a smalltalk-like language which is definitely an esolang < 1210373383 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: ever done? < 1210373396 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kar8nga: what ever done? < 1210373406 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it ever been done, you're asking? < 1210373444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by taking their inverses) < 1210373453 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the course 2 years ago, so I remember .... - no, I asked if you ever took stochastic calculus? < 1210373487 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I remember - thanks! < 1210373505 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I've ever taken it? No, I'm in high school. < 1210373535 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any links/resources yet? < 1210373543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1210373545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just in my head < 1210373560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Smalltalk, only objects and classes are merged (like in Io), and inheritance is done by time-travel < 1210373567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it starts with only one object < 1210373633 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrap with one object - remembers me of: beware of the god object < 1210373662 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's more like self, than smalltalk? < 1210373666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1210373691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehird and I have been discussing smalltalk for the last couple of days in about 5 different channels < 1210373766 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw somewhere some bits of that < 1210373798 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more leaning to the metaobject approach: like in the piumata papers < 1210374042 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.74.139 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210374275 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210374485 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1210374659 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1210374659 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1210374754 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-91-182.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1210374845 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles: f(0) is 0, f(1) is selected randomly from a standard normal distribution, f(0.5) is... hmm, I've forgotten
< 1210374884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1210374923 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember that method I supposedly thought of for computing Brownian motion. < 1210374955 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1210375004 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you ought to calculate the standard deviation of the difference between f(x) and f(x+c) given the standard deviation of the difference between f(x) and f(x+1). < 1210375122 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope : Try to make regions of particles with lowering entropy! < 1210375935 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SirGeo < 1210376767 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1210377137 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1210377354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1210377583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Roll - roll - bump - crash - kaBOOM"