< 1211414629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211414732 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211416214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211416519 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211416519 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211416521 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting…" < 1211416532 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211416540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1211416551 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kicks a small netsplit
< 1211417086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1211417105 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What about Plof 3? < 1211417124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Is it snuggly < 1211417177 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by "snuggly", you mean "slow", then yes :P < 1211417200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: What would you say to an implementation that consists of 5 tiers. < 1211417201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C. < 1211417209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first tier is ye-olde optimized Forth-alike < 1211417212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then PSL on top of that < 1211417218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Ploftermediate on top of that < 1211417222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the magical layer < 1211417223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Plof < 1211417272 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why the PSL has to be compiled to something Forth-alike ... < 1211417290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Because i'd micro-optimize it to silly. < 1211417292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1211417327 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell yah what - write a PSL interpreter however you want, and if you succeed (and I have time), I'll write the parser framework for it. < 1211417337 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1211417353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: And make that the official Plof 3 if it is 100% compatible, easy to maintain, and fast? < 1211417354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1211417376 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even have to be 100% compatible if the changes are improvements :P < 1211417429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I could replace PSL with a forth-alike. :-P < 1211417472 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that change an improvement >_> < 1211417645 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211417662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I would make it snuggly < 1211417712 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, PSL is a Forth-alike ... only with first-class procedures and non-reassignable words and such X-P < 1211417739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh mine would have stuff like that. < 1211417743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's be sluffy. < 1211417763 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is PSL so offensive to you? ^^ < 1211417897 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a "yes" :P < 1211417910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yes. < 1211417918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: PSL is probably hideously inefficient for the plof that runs on opt. < 1211417918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1211417919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*top < 1211417944 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did create PSL specifically for Plof ... < 1211417993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: But if it's so slow you probably did something wrong. < 1211418029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a crummy GC and a simple switch-based interpreter. < 1211418045 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the slowness is from the GC, not the interpreter anyway. < 1211418178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I bet it's still psl's fault < 1211418180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1211418187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I'll implement AWESOMEGC < 1211418190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I will invent as I go < 1211418191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will be awesome < 1211418229 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so stuck to PSL that I'm against the concept of replacing it, I just don't see why your proposed replacement is helpful :P < 1211418277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ehird's is better < 1211418279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much better < 1211418290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: exactly, you get it < 1211418295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1211418302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Huh?) < 1211418307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1211418341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, you know what's fun < 1211418347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have a programming project < 1211418353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple, one night job < 1211418357 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEN MURDER < 1211418364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, someone joins the group with absolutely no skill < 1211418375 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And /then/ murder. < 1211418380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and starts asking me help when trying to figure out the difference between two dates. < 1211418402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And /then/ murder? < 1211418409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i'm not actually sure what i should answer to something like that, i'm rarely the *receiving* end < 1211418424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well < 1211418436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was quite close to murder when i saw his first attempt at it. < 1211418444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh :) < 1211418445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost wanna paste it here... < 1211418462 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come oooooooooon < 1211418462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do eet < 1211418464 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrub names < 1211418470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p545635166.txt no names < 1211418474 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also to the daily WTF < 1211418485 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, java code from a guy with about two years of university < 1211418492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real advertisement for the uni.. < 1211418493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1211418506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1211418511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in finnish < 1211418520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't notice, sorry < 1211418521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1211418541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it calculates how much a movie is over its due < 1211418544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :date < 1211418549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm due date < 1211418559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day you're supposed to return it < 1211418575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should translate that < 1211418579 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that == due date < 1211418604 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be wildly thrashing a database at least. < 1211418621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you know the real problem? < 1211418633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :String kys3 = "UPDATE sakkoja set sakkoja=b;" <<< i especially like this < 1211418634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: your database fields are in finnish < 1211418639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1211418647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see that as a problem < 1211418652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding ofc < 1211418657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, b is not even set to any real value here < 1211418664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Kanta is a pretty amusing way to spell SQL, though. < 1211418665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's used inside the string :) < 1211418675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kanta = database < 1211418690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, tietokanta = database, kanta just means the same < 1211418698 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why Finnish has such -- ahh, that explains it.
< 1211418719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tieto = data, sounds quite similar actually, although i'm not sure there's a link < 1211418796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, a separate word for a database would be quite weird < 1211418809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in my opinion there's no reason to name things at all < 1211418812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just number them < 1211418827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone can't remember the numbers, they suck, not my problem! < 1211418841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway. < 1211418844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, i'll be doing some sleeping now < 1211418845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway? < 1211418848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'SQL' is a pretty good name for something that runs sql < 1211418855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lolwut? < 1211418864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you change to sql there? < 1211418866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1211418871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Kanta->SQL < 1211418884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL would be a weird name for the database < 1211418952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 1) if it had been named by me, it'd be in english, but it's named by the lecturer 2) sql would suck as the name 3) your mother < 1211418956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya! < 1211418957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1211418978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) oklopol's mothr < 1211419027 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5) ehird's mothra < 1211419046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7) < 1211419046 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to decide whether to write a faster factorial program in brainfuck. It shouldn't be hard, but I already have a long brainfuck to-do list that I'm putting off. < 1211419054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc: a brainfuck todo list < 1211419055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1211419065 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1211419085 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1211419147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc: how long is it? < 1211419154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it involve 'write an OS'? < 1211419159 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1211419168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about posix^W^W^Winsert a meme here < 1211419171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1211419172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX < 1211419173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1211419181 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1211419186 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poinsert a meme here? < 1211419198 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah yeah, I know ^W is word :P < 1211419201 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1211419231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"something about PSOX" is a meme now? < 1211419238 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have PSOX on highlight, btw) < 1211419257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX Awesome, I'll prefix everything I say with "PSOX" from now on. < 1211419282 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have -play winning tictactoe, -play guess-a-number, -rethink the start of dbfi, -rewrite a subset of BF-BASIC to produce concise code so Lost Kingdom to fit on a floppy again, -fast unlimited-precision e generator... < 1211419307 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's dbfi? < 1211419321 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-99-bottles analogue starting with "15 men on a dead man's chest" because I prefer rum to beer... < 1211419344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I believe Lost Kingdom has junk like >< and <> and -+ and +- and ]..[ < 1211419345 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbfi is my brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck. < 1211419368 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"15 men on a dead man's chest" ... rum slogan, or necrophilic gay porn? < 1211419368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just get rid of the junk recursively, and how much smaller would Lost Kingdom get? < 1211419392 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo I think I tried it and I think it doesn't fit on a floppy. < 1211419420 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, rewriting BF-BASIC would save a lot more code. < 1211419479 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor no reason it has to be "or". < 1211419493 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I think you're attributing to much meaning to the word "on". < 1211419549 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1211419566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc: what is BF-BASIC written in? < 1211419569 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I've been meaning to set up a new site starting with a copy of Panu's archive and collecting whatever else I can think of. < 1211419598 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird I think it's in Java but I think I'd probably use bison and C. < 1211419618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc: Masochist :-) < 1211419621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, you code in BF. < 1211419633 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wurve C
< 1211419704 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other thing is I try to keep standalone programs under 1k. Doing e or tictactoe in that space will be hard. < 1211419932 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sadist actually) :) < 1211420261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbc: You could invent the etic language. < 1211420262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e=e < 1211420265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t=tic tac toe < 1211420689 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teeeeeee < 1211420784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: tic tac E < 1211421415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye for today :-) < 1211421430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211427685 0 :_13121_!i=LivingDe@bas3-montreal28-1242529948.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1211427778 0 :_13121_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1211429081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429081 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429082 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429082 0 :B-rat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429084 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429100 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211429100 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1211429100 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211429100 0 :B-rat!n=B-rat@about/philosophy/b-rat JOIN :#esoteric < 1211429100 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211429265 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429265 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429265 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429265 0 :B-rat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211429539 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1211430579 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211434088 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211434088 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211434098 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435065 0 :B-rat!n=B-rat@about/philosophy/b-rat JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435586 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211435591 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211435591 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211435615 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435615 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435615 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435659 0 :ben!n=ben@219-88-193-251.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1211435734 0 :ben!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1211435814 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211437728 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=urn8@219-88-193-251.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1211438335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211438816 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211439395 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211439491 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211439492 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211439492 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211439536 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211439536 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211439550 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1211441889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1211442336 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1211442572 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211443199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1211443200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1211443459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211444738 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-49-182.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1211445692 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1211446292 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=urn8@219-88-193-251.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1211448136 0 :Iskr!n=i@host34-59-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1211450219 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1211450305 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1211452125 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Unisex." < 1211454210 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1211454688 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211455722 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-21-53.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1211455760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello sirs < 1211455793 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking, should the link to the friends of brainfuck mailing list be erased? < 1211456570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1211456713 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Friends of brainfuck" < 1211456725 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mailing list which has not been active for years < 1211456742 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still on the community portal of the esowiki < 1211456760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ##brainfuck, on that matter. < 1211457236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1211457289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well brainfuck has been so analyzed and worked on that it is not very interesting any more. I mean, you can't make a more optimizing compiler for it really. the language is done, finished < 1211457357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, agree? < 1211457388 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that remains to be done is the actual Brainfuck CPU. < 1211457392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is useful still, implementing a interpreter for it in a new language, to prove it is "brainfuck-complete" < 1211457416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think someone did that? or maybe it was a interpreter on a PIC or something like that < 1211457473 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's schematics. And a version with like less than ten bytes of memory < 1211457494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impressive < 1211457518 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no good old CPU to do sum BF on it < 1211457534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a FPGA? < 1211457537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever they are called < 1211457553 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGA? < 1211457557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's it < 1211457568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmable hardware, uses vhdl if I remember correctly? < 1211457579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is no expert on such things
< 1211457706 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT GOOD ENOUGH < 1211457719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1211457722 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you use a programmable hardware for Brainfuck? < 1211457743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, well I mean make such a hardware that can execute bf < 1211457758 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1211457816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, it should be a lot cheaper than constructing an actual cpu for it < 1211457853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because constructing a single special made cpu would cost a LOT of money < 1211457890 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And using any other language would be more efficient. < 1211457924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I can think of worse < 1211457931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that boolfuck? < 1211458050 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boolfuck is Brainfuck. < 1211458075 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing the symbol set doesn't do much! < 1211458121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduced brainfuck, you can remove - for example < 1211458127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot more < 1211458135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see page on esolang about it < 1211458141 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1211458152 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also combile + and > < 1211458163 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not really interesting. < 1211458185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1211458242 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much was done on BF. < 1211458258 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another language must rise. < 1211458273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge? < 1211458328 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, though it is already quite popular. < 1211458343 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something like Brainfuck-Befunge-INTERCAL < 1211458361 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Brainfuck hogs all the spotlight. < 1211458458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, make me a befunge98 *compiler* < 1211458463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that passes mycology < 1211458466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter is easy < 1211458479 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't program. < 1211458489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth are you doing here then? ;P < 1211458496 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can pretend to! < 1211458499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1211458502 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in Python. < 1211458509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes predent < 1211458511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend* < 1211458512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1211458517 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in my languages. < 1211458523 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they are awesome and all. < 1211458535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you made a language it is rather easier < 1211458550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will match how you think, and you will know all the details < 1211458582 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, got to go. < 1211458582 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exams. < 1211458590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1211458669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :necrophilic gay orgy does sound like a nice project < 1211458807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:55…   AnMaster: sure it is useful still, implementing a interpreter for it in a new language, to prove it is "brainfuck-complete" <<< once again, to split hairs, this doesn't necessarily prove even brainfuck-completeness < 1211458836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, to split hairs, you can always make a better compiler, because you can never make a perfect one < 1211458880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolfuck is on booleans, changes the way you program quite a bit, actually < 1211458894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in brainfuck, you usually don't have to care about carries < 1211458910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get O(n) operations, without bignums, but easier to program < 1211459024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a bitxtreme computer... < 1211459879 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211462912 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211462984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a what computer? < 1211464575 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-49-182.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1211465263 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@wsip-70-167-169-169.sd.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211467029 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-67-55.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1211467048 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol : How does a BF interpreter not prove BFCness? < 1211467069 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, couldn't you make a bitxtreme computer with like two marbles and four cups? < 1211467578 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-040-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1211468053 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host98-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1211468273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: it only proves BFCness if you can also execute arbitrary bf programs within it. < 1211468297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language where you can make an interpreter, but not use it, it not bfc < 1211468316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *compilation* from bf into a language that proves bfcness < 1211468326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess you could make bitxtreme like that < 1211468414 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1211468434 0 :Slereah_!n=gtuilt@ANantes-252-1-67-55.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1211468977 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't an interpreter be able to do an arbitrary BF program by definition? < 1211469082 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211469165 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@wsip-70-167-169-169.sd.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211469872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: An actual interpreter, sure. < 1211469983 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of making a fake one, out of bamboo and coconuts. < 1211470016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that Turing completeness does not take a lot of stuff. . .
< 1211470038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, a man and an abacus is Turing complete with the right instructions. < 1211470046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and an infinitely large abacus) < 1211470072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and a man with an infinite life span) < 1211470093 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the man alone be TC? < 1211470099 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The abacus doesn't do much < 1211470115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's storage. < 1211470129 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's a tape. < 1211470133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1211470140 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Rainman. < 1211470147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1211470162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fairly finite, actually. < 1211470184 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless an INFINITE RAINMAN < 1211470188 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinitely retarded. < 1211470203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autism != mental retardation. < 1211470260 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is if you're speaking internet vernacular. < 1211470333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you, clearly, are not. < 1211470361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The punctuation, capitalisation, and proper spelling give it away. < 1211470369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're speaking English, not Internet. < 1211470436 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orly? < 1211470452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* you're speaking Internets. < 1211470470 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a brainfuck interpreter in language X to prove language X Turing-complete, you don't need that interpreter to be able to execute any brainfuck program. It's enough if it can execute ONE brainfuck program which is itself an interpreter for a Turing-complete language, on any input. < 1211470529 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't need to be. < 1211470547 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make a BF interpreter that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470550 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470551 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470552 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470552 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470553 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470553 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470554 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470555 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only accepts a BF interpreter. < 1211470559 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1211470586 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH CAN ACCEPTS ANY INPUT THEN < 1211470611 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1211470656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, some days I get a kick out of Trusted Computing. < 1211470676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trusted Computing: Making your computer a non-Turing machine since '98. < 1211470689 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would be MORE work. Whereas I can easily imagine it being easier, in some language X, to write a brainfuck interpreter that only accepts brainfuck programs up to, say, 256 commands long. < 1211470727 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like a bitxtreme BF interpreter? < 1211470737 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that would be 1 command long. < 1211470756 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the bitchanger way. < 1211472075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, that guy i mentioned last night, the one with the funny failure of a java code, he's insisting on making the function to return a loaned video in the database to *prompt* the movie a certain customer wants to return < 1211472096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the fucking first thing they teach at the university is never to mix interface and functionality < 1211472101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when there's no need to < 1211472148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he has a fucking loop there in case the customer wants to return many videos, and a fucking SCANNER class he insisted on making specifically for the fucking mothersinking function < 1211472196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly i'm angry because i simply cannot get him to understand what's wrong with it < 1211472221 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, I can't even understand what you're talking about. < 1211472230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1211472230 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll soon turn into the incredible hulk! < 1211472246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of return_video(String customer, String movie_to_return) < 1211472248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does < 1211472256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return_video(String customer) < 1211472257 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First thing they taught us here was Newtonian mechanics! < 1211472264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prompts the movie to return inside the function < 1211472403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why mix the IO monad in a simple database operation < 1211472406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1211472413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you'd do that with the IO monad too < 1211472428 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads? < 1211472431 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION flees
< 1211472495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no! they won't bite < 1211472541 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what you said last time! < 1211472542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: an interpreter will be able to do anything, but if you cannot give it any program to run, it can't run anything... < 1211472557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes? < 1211472580 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a particular example in min,d? < 1211472605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dbc: For a brainfuck interpreter in language X to prove language X Turing-complete, you don't need that interpreter to be able to execute any brainfuck program. It's enough if it can execute ONE brainfuck program which is itself an interpreter for a Turing-complete language, on any input. <<< once again not enough if you cannot actually give it any program to run < 1211472646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: sure < 1211472659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a language X with two instructions < 1211472668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a stack < 1211472676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first on adds a "+" on the stack < 1211472679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one < 1211472682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called "+" < 1211472690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is the "b" operation < 1211472697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs the contents of the stack as a bf program < 1211472700 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it random? < 1211472711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b can run any bf program < 1211472728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... the language is not tc, you *cannot perform arbitrary computation* < 1211472776 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that a little convoluted as an example? < 1211472780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1211472800 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, like, in relation with a real esolang. < 1211472813 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was I suppose what was refered to. < 1211472820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a real esolang there might be a more subtle limitation on what input you can give your interp from within the language. < 1211472826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there might be a limit < 1211472838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, making a bf interpreter is not actually a proof. < 1211472860 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you have a nitpicky definition of an interpreter :o < 1211472865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1211472893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck do you mean? < 1211472910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is everyone slow today, or just me?) < 1211472931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: in this case you can only create +'s on the stack to run < 1211472935 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, interpreters usually don't come as buttons. < 1211472941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1211472948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you elaborate on that? < 1211472961 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you write one, you actually work to make it possible for it to work < 1211472976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asd < 1211472991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a perfect interpreter in a language where there is no way to actually use it. < 1211473016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can even test it with, say, lost kingdom, in case it supports that subset < 1211473029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might fail on programs that are slightly different < 1211473064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in case no bf program that is tc itself and can give itself arbitrary input isn't one of the working programs < 1211473072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have bfness proved < 1211473076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfcness < 1211473123 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1211473123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a bit hard to explain, because... i don't think there's anything to explain < 1211473192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it clear it's not tc if you can't actually run arbitrary computation? the fact you can make a bf interp that runs any bf program doesn't prove anything unless you also prove you can give it arbitrary input. < 1211473193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1211473197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can give it arbitrary input < 1211473207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have compiled your language to bf. < 1211473211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations, that's proof < 1211473214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just the interp is not < 1211473218 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is, your example is a little artificial. < 1211473236 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I see your point. < 1211473237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it? < 1211473241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my example < 1211473261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel you're mixing intuition into this... < 1211473296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my language's case you can trivially see you cannot make an interesting program on the stack < 1211473318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's say you can create any bf program on the stack but it has to have as many +'s as it has -'s < 1211473325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it trivial it's tc? < 1211473341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, in a real case the constraint might not be that clear < 1211473358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... well, in case it was, once again, you could just trivially compile < 1211473392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is the interp is not the proof, but the fact you can usually do compilation into input for the bf interp < 1211473430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, i was just splitting hairs, you all know this, just perhaps not that... explicitly. < 1211473499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dbc's point was, for some constraints on the bf program on the stack you can create a non-restricted bf interp within it, with arbitrary input. < 1211473528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you can make a bf program with some lesser constraint that allows you to make another level that's again tc < 1211473554 0 :ais523!n=ais523@chillingi.eee.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1211473557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some constraints, like my "+"-only, it's clear with even infinite layers it's impossible to get arbitrary computation < 1211473606 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: do you just see the point or actually feel it? < 1211473671 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1211473679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I only saw the second half of the sentence, so that makes it kind-of hard for me to get the point < 1211473685 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is hard to think of a concrete example < 1211473699 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because well, there aren't that many languages that aren't TC or BFC. < 1211473700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've been monologuing for a while < 1211473717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case I missed most of the monologue < 1211473718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: why would you need a more concrete example? < 1211473724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, about 50 lines < 1211473735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest logs, because i want your approval < 1211473738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1211473760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol : Because well, otherwise, it borders on the theoretical. < 1211473762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll see if I can get the web browser here to act sanely < 1211473773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/version me if you want to know the horiffic details, and look at the version number) < 1211473779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: there could be a language where you can add all brainfuck operators on the stack, and a b-command to run the stackie < 1211473782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1211473789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only add them some finite number of times < 1211473802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have a set of operations that mix up the stack < 1211473809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate, lift, rotate < 1211473829 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the operations whether you can create interesting enough programs < 1211473840 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it not BFC? < 1211473852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, if the set of operations is {} < 1211473871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how does implementing a Brainfuck interp in something not prove that it's BF-complete? < 1211473873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's {"fetch *any* operation from the stack and duplicate it on top of the stack"} < 1211473876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's tc < 1211473888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it depends on the definition of BF-complete < 1211473889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because there might be constraints on what you can give it as input < 1211473902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was thinking of things like sed < 1211473905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not be able to actually use it, even though it's there < 1211473905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's BF-complete < 1211473915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't compile all BF programs into sed < 1211473925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha? < 1211473929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1211473932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs at least one byte of input to do anything < 1211473939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are BF programs that output despite no input < 1211473943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no sed programs that do that < 1211473944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1211473950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I'd still call it BF-complete < 1211473960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, *that* is a bit artificial. < 1211473964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can just append a newline, or something trivial like that, a coding of the input < 1211473972 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WHAT IF YOU ONLY HAVE +'s, WHAT THEN < 1211474003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: what? :D did i leave a sentence unfinished? < 1211474029 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. I'm just screwing with you :D < 1211474055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well that's clearly *tc* at least, i guess that's the real point here, because io makes bf a bit too concrete for this conversation < 1211474069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I agree that it's blatantly TC < 1211474076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for your +b lang, I'd say it isn't BF-complete < 1211474084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot run arbitrary BF programs < 1211474089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you cannot write a BF interp in it < 1211474090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's the point < 1211474100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1211474103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1211474104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a BF-interp command, but that isn't the same as saying that you can write a BF interp in the language < 1211474114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1211474128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is the definition of a bf interpreter then? < 1211474139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed it is that it's given a string, and it runs it as bf. < 1211474143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting point < 1211474149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's a function that maps an input to an output < 1211474157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, well b is exactly that. < 1211474160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the input is a BF program and its input (maybe separated by !) < 1211474172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language has an embedded BF interpreter, but no way to use it < 1211474177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but no sed programs that do that <-- sure? I think gsed can do that? < 1211474177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1211474191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe I've been using it wrong < 1211474198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far from a sed expert though < 1211474203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my point was, the interpreter is not necessarily the proof, because you might not be able to give it arbitrary input. < 1211474212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you have to prove that the interpreter works < 1211474216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm no < 1211474221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves being able to interpret arbitrary input < 1211474221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1211474229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it isn't a BF interp < 1211474233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an interp for a subset of BF < 1211474236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you also have to prove you *can give it any input* < 1211474243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do < 1211474258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's two proof, after which you have compilation pretty much done. < 1211474263 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does such a scenario happens often? < 1211474265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I see the problem, I'm talking about a BF interp as a program written in a language and running within the constraints of that language < 1211474267 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that *is* clearly a proof < 1211474273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you're talking about a BF interp as something inside the language < 1211474277 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh noes, I have no way to feed input into my interpreter!" < 1211474291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no, because usually languages have easy facilities for making constants. < 1211474300 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if you write a BF interpreter. < 1211474306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say another way to prove a language BF-complete is if you can compile all BF programs into it < 1211474312 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will usually have some sort of way to simulate a tape < 1211474324 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some sort of numbers on it < 1211474325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Slereah_: no, because usually languages have easy facilities for making constants. < 1211474335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're in #esoteric, you probably shouldn't assume that < 1211474337 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if unusually? < 1211474350 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, if you can write a BF interpreter in it < 1211474354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is this about? < 1211474363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, apart from bf < 1211474365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even in esolangs, if you can make a bf interp, it's usually easy to create an arbitrary string. < 1211474367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1211474369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all BF interps I've seen work by simulating a tape somehow < 1211474372 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have no way to make a tape and numbers, how are you going to make an interpreter? < 1211474384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often using two stacks < 1211474400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that could work < 1211474404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can imagine a BF interp that analyses the code and translates it into functional code or something that does the same thing < 1211474411 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can make those two, you can probably make a tape with the program on it < 1211474415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code it translated into has nothing resembling a tape < 1211474421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be pretty difficult to do, though < 1211474447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what are you talking about now exactly? < 1211474456 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1211474456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1211474463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, and marginally related to this conversation, does anyone know the minimum depth of [] nesting needed to be able to write a BF interp in BF? < 1211474473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1211474488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can prolly do something like that factor language in just a few characters. < 1211474490 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go sleep on it. < 1211474490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 30 < 1211474498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1211474499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1211474500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf interp < 1211474519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another interesting question: what's the shortest possible interp for some TC language in ? < 1211474531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, you can define the TC language yourself to produce the shortest interp possible < 1211474558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's always interesting < 1211474565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried doing it in machine code, got it down to 11 bytes if you append the program to the interp, but then realised that a 0-byte program was a machine-code interp under those rules < 1211474566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even impossible to cheat in < 1211474569 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 : Use b! < 1211474591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: you can't cheat like that < 1211474593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1211474597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some langs are going to be easier to golf a TC lang in than others < 1211474599 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR CAN I? < 1211474602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1211474610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well *that* is easy to cheat in < 1211474614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. in Perl eval<> interprets the class of one-liner Perl programs, which is TC < 1211474620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clearly a cheat, though < 1211474626 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What works as a command, though? < 1211474637 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always found that iota's i was a bit of cheating. < 1211474645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, what is b? < 1211474646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: in BF, I'd say each of + - < > , . [ ] < 1211474659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A hypothetical command that interprets Brainfuck < 1211474671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in what language? < 1211474686 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's the underlying lambda, and because i alone doesn't do shit. < 1211474691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one oklopol invented as an example, its only other command appended a "+" to the program it interpreted < 1211474708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although b can interpret any BF program, it's only possible to give it programs consisting of only + as input < 1211474728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: well, it has i and * as commands < 1211474739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I did plan a fingerprint for befunge that would be able to interpreter 0gnirts as brainfuck, HQ9X (or whatever that joke language is called), and whitespace < 1211474740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i is rather complicated < 1211474747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly more < 1211474751 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but i doesn't really do anything on its own < 1211474752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's HQ9+ < 1211474760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes that was it < 1211474765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or HQ9++ :D < 1211474772 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need at least two i's to make it mean something in the language itself < 1211474780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I find HQ9++ really difficult < 1211474786 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it feels a little like a cypher. < 1211474795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the HQ9+ interps I've written actually implement + properly, even though its useful < 1211474796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that the one that provides object orientation too? < 1211474800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always an accumulater in there somewhere < 1211474803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1211474810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ter/tor/ < 1211474850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc it said no references will be available to the created object, so I just need to malloc a object and then discard the pointer, intentional memory leak ;) < 1211474868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but the description of the object created is kind-of complex < 1211474916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would make a lazy interpreter that doesn't actually implement that
< 1211474931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: from my point of view, that misses the point < 1211474962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, i agree with you, but also, your mother. < 1211474990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes, would be hard in C < 1211475669 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211476082 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.77.215 JOIN :#esoteric < 1211476947 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1211480143 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211480160 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1211481460 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1211483175 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211483491 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-72-183.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1211483568 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1211483578 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-043-044.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1211490438 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1211491358 0 :elissar!n=elissar@213.206.54.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1211491402 0 :elissar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1211491682 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Time for me to go home" < 1211493544 0 :BMeph!n=chatzill@wsip-70-167-169-169.sd.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1211493745 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1211494237 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1211496744 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1211497206 0 :BMeph!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1211499078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"not on my usual connection and so I can't spam loads of INTERCAL here" < 1211499433 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1211500539 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1211500543 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihopin < 1211500689 0 :ihopin!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope