00:02:18 oh sheesh, he's actually _here_ 00:14:17 I choose MUDKIP 00:14:29 Slereah5: It's super effective! GreaseMonkey dies. 00:14:35 :D 00:14:38 I liek it 00:14:59 ^ that's quotable. 00:15:06 bash or qdb.us ? 00:15:18 This seems a little too lame to quite. 00:15:19 GreaseMonkey: No, sorry. 00:15:23 quote 00:15:27 Slereah5: We're talking about GreaseMonkey, unfortunately. 00:15:58 Is he a total lame-o? 00:16:20 Slereah5: Something like that. 00:17:14 -!- Slereah5 has changed nick to Slereah. 00:44:37 o 00:44:41 o 00:44:41 o 00:44:55 k 00:44:57 l 00:44:58 o 00:45:10 p 00:45:12 o 00:45:13 l 00:45:17 Yay :-) 00:46:51 hahaha 00:46:53 o 00:48:38 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 00:51:02 :O 00:52:38 :O 00:52:40 :O 00:52:47 What you say three times is true. 00:53:04 ihope is a liar 00:53:05 ihope is a liar 00:53:06 ihope is a liar 00:53:13 Am not. 00:53:15 Am not. 00:53:17 Am not. 00:53:18 Am not. 00:53:20 Ha! 00:53:24 four times 00:53:26 doesn't count 00:53:31 Aww. :-( 00:54:37 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:54:43 -!- timotiis has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:55:48 "what you say three times" is tue 00:56:06 what you say three times is grue. 00:56:28 It was bleen before, but now it's grue. 00:56:55 * lament tries to imagine that 00:57:04 * lament becomes enlightened 00:57:09 grue 00:57:09 grue 00:57:09 grue 00:57:17 //poof 00:59:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:09:15 dude 01:09:18 powersets = sex 01:09:46 the naive haskell definition is so simple 01:09:54 pset [] = [] 01:10:01 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:10:09 yes 01:10:12 that's pretty simple :) 01:10:25 pset x:xs = (map (\y . x ++ y) (pset xs)) ++ (pset xs) 01:10:31 i realized this like 20 minutes ago 01:10:32 :o 01:10:44 obviously, this only works for ordered lists ;) 01:10:54 but who needs proper sets when lists work just as well 01:11:32 augur: um 01:11:34 use Data.Set 01:11:45 hush tusho 01:11:48 dont ruin it 01:11:51 also 01:11:53 (\y . 01:11:54 itym -> 01:11:59 pset x:xs = pset xs ++ map (x:) $ pset x 01:12:00 lolwut 01:12:05 err 01:12:07 pset x:xs = pset xs ++ map (x:) $ pset xs 01:12:08 -!- timotiis has joined. 01:12:43 i wasnt sure if : would work the way i wanted it to, nor do i know what $ does. :D 01:12:47 but there's a better way to do that 01:12:52 hold on 01:13:15 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:13:20 yeah 01:13:30 the definition the haskellians showed me was something like 01:13:46 filterM (const [True,False]) 01:13:58 being the definition of powersetM 01:14:02 or something 01:14:09 yeah 01:14:15 something like that 01:17:34 i dont even understand that one :D 01:24:41 -!- Def has joined. 01:27:45 ah, that one's beautiful 01:28:41 it uses the non-deterministic choice monad to try every assignment of true or false to the elements of the list, then for each assignment keeps the elements that got True using filter 01:29:07 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 01:29:08 olsner: err, doesn't it just use the LIST MONAD? 01:29:13 same thing, but ;) 01:29:17 yes :) 01:30:27 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 01:30:33 hey folks 01:30:57 hello oh great one 01:32:07 hi oerjan 01:32:37 -!- tusho has set topic: Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | TODAY'S TOPIC: eso-std.org now actually SERVES CONTENT at http://forum.eso-std.org/. Website code stuff is at http://code.eso-std.org/ if you care. Next up: pastebin, etc. Tomorrow. SHAMELESS ADVERT END!. 01:33:40 while you people spam that lovely thing, I am now about to sleep. 01:33:47 -!- tusho has quit ("Just watch me."). 01:35:18 hunh 01:35:23 what a horrible little creation 01:37:38 -!- Deformati has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:41:33 hm 01:46:44 this is awesome, but probably not conductive to constructive disucssion until everyone gets over that it looks like /b/ but doesn't have gore and lolis 01:47:34 plus, the forum needs a larger selection of anonymous nick names 01:48:18 -!- revcompgeek has joined. 01:48:30 -!- revcompgeek has left (?). 01:56:53 :o 01:57:55 apparently in haskell 01:57:58 theres something called a quand 01:58:01 and a coquand 01:58:08 i swear, if haskell isn't an esolang 01:58:17 then it's naming conventions are 01:58:57 coquand is a person :P 01:59:01 * ihope throws a comonad at augur 01:59:05 AHH! 01:59:18 i mean dude 01:59:54 it's an in-joke in the haskell word that anything that begins with "co" is actually the dual of the word you get when you remove co- 01:59:59 catamorphisms, anamorphisms homomorphisms, heteromorphisms, bimorphisms, transmorphisms, lesbomorphisms... 02:00:05 i.e. coffee = co-ffee, etc 02:00:29 So is caine the biologically inactive optical isomer? 02:00:58 (and inversely, that any everyday concept has a dual named by adding co- to it ... such as cominds, cobrains) 02:01:12 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:01:23 ihope: must be! 02:01:53 ihope: it's not inactive, it turns you into a vampire! 02:02:10 Oh, darn it. 02:02:22 would that mean that normal cocaine turns you into a covampire? 02:02:30 No, covampires turn you into cocaine. 02:02:37 :o 02:02:59 But you have to snuff (or whatever the term is) them, of course, which is difficult. 02:03:16 no, they turn you into cocaine and then snuff you 02:03:17 would you snuff caine and cosnuff cocaine? 02:03:42 Oh, right. If a covampire cosnuffs you, you turn into cocaine. 02:03:52 Actually, if a covampire cosnuffs cocaine, it turns into you. 02:03:58 damn covampires 02:04:06 wouldnt it coturn? 02:04:12 I guess so. 02:04:28 Covampire coa cointo coyou coturns coit. Are you happy now? 02:04:40 no but i am cohappy! 02:04:57 I knew you were going to say that. :-P 02:05:09 no, you coknow! 02:05:19 knew* 02:05:27 * ihope is coslapped by augur 02:05:31 this discussion is some medy 02:05:41 (Which is roughly the same as me slapping you, I'm sure.) 02:05:47 no, this discussing is CO-.. oh. 02:06:00 * olsner is counderstanding coeverything 02:06:30 olsner: that's because we're so good at mmunication 02:06:51 of urse 02:07:13 So what does Haskell de look like? 02:07:24 * oerjan wishes he had some a to drink 02:07:42 * ihope joins #haskell.de, but finds only lambdabot 02:07:56 cohaskell od colooks colike cothis: 02:08:00 * ihope gives it a @snack and leaves 02:08:05 ihope: it's very ol 02:08:14 fac 0 = 0 02:08:14 fac n = n * fac (n-1) 02:08:23 or if you want a sexier example, the map function is 02:08:41 you may be looking for #haskell 02:08:44 * oerjan suspects ihope knows haskell 02:08:47 map f [] = [] 02:08:47 map f x:xs = (f x) : (map f xs) 02:09:01 must be a vague corecall 02:09:20 cototal corecall? 02:09:33 * oerjan points out you need parentheses around x:xs 02:09:34 -!- Def has changed nick to deformative. 02:09:38 -!- deformative has changed nick to Deformative. 02:09:41 and in f x : map f xs, the parens are extraneous 02:09:54 *unnecessary 02:10:00 hm maybe that's rrect for de, then 02:10:35 no, it's correct ... but for pattern matching, the form without parens is rrect 02:10:55 i prefer to be explicit with my parens :P 02:11:22 * ihope gives the ol' ((map f) (x:xs)) = ((f x) : ((map f) xs)) argument 02:11:46 ihope: is that legal? 02:11:51 Probably. 02:11:55 The only prefix pun I can think of now is the opposite of gigantic being nanontic. 02:11:58 it is 02:12:11 well, i dont know about parens on the left but 02:12:53 those were what i was worrying about 02:13:42 And then everything from yottatic to yoctotic. And in the very middle, ntic, for something of an exactly ordinary size. 02:14:16 apparently (map f) (x:xs) = ((f x) : ((map f) xs)) is legal 02:14:33 but not the original 02:14:40 Ooh, nes. 02:14:51 They're what you get nic sections from. 02:15:11 surely you mean cosections 02:15:41 (which btw is an existing term) 02:15:52 heh, goto = me cofrom 02:17:08 Let's make an esolang called Mecofrom, then. Make everything actually have a complement. 02:17:28 and mplement! 02:17:42 That would be the identity. 02:19:15 hmm, so you'd have something like a co- operator (cooperator :P) that complements the meaning of any program given as an argument? 02:19:21 Sure. 02:19:51 Every instruction has a complement, every set of instructions has a complement. 02:20:18 The complement of a list of instructions is its coinstructions, run... sideways! 02:21:22 Though that would kind of actually be the instructions run i times, wouldn't it? 02:21:53 i think that co-instructions should run sideways in time. 02:22:15 That would be fun. 02:22:15 e.g., they run in co-time 02:22:27 mmm, a complex time programming language, that'd be awesome 02:22:35 It means, of course, that a co-co-instruction is actually the instruction in reverse. 02:22:37 well, not complex-time 02:22:40 just two time dimensions 02:23:03 because if we have complex time 02:23:06 we also need mplex time 02:23:07 Mm, I just want to take every mathematical concept and make it into a programming language :-) 02:23:12 Ouch. 02:23:18 on top of time 02:23:21 http://imagechan.com/img/5569/Unexplainable/ 02:23:32 and them complex cotime and mplex cotime on top cotime 02:24:16 hmm, maybe just keep it to time and cotime then :P 02:24:29 co-cotime == time 02:24:34 yep 02:24:42 unless its cocoa-time in which case you get a cup of hot chocolate. 02:24:59 that should be in the spec: 02:25:34 co-cotime always evaluates to the same as time, but cocoa-time will produce a cup of hot chocolate for the programmer. 02:25:52 Hmm, now I want a programming language based on topology. 02:26:01 cotopology? 02:26:11 you're all a bunch of coconuts! 02:26:53 I leave in protest. 02:26:55 -!- ihope has left (?). 02:27:20 oh noes, he cojoined 02:27:48 coconuts are just normal nuts 02:28:11 and a normal nut is a contradiction in terms 02:28:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 02:28:58 therefore coconuts do not exist 02:29:06 QED! 02:29:09 well, they are just nuts ;) 02:29:25 I always thought coco puffs should just be puffs anyways ;) 02:29:30 edwardk: you didn't see the whole proof 02:29:43 ah =) 02:29:58 ::Evil:: 02:30:03 i told #haskell about it 02:30:08 now THEYRE talking in co-everything 02:30:08 > 02:30:09 >D 02:32:36 i think co should not be distributive 02:32:57 so co-X co-Y != co-(X Y) 02:33:12 thus there would be 8 cases 02:33:25 well it depends how you combine X and Y 02:33:31 all combinations! 02:33:48 co-(X op Y) = co-X co-op co-Y 02:34:22 oh very nices 02:34:40 so you distributed and do co-operators on co-operands 02:34:59 I'm not sure how those would cooperate 02:35:23 note that you can take this as the _definition_ of co-op 02:35:49 you know 02:36:13 that looks a LOT like the inverse of the product of two matrices 02:36:33 (AxB)^-1 == B^-1 x A^-1 02:36:38 so maybe then 02:36:50 that == A^-1 x^-1 B^-1 02:38:04 so maybe the co-matrix of a matrix is its inverse, and the co-product of two matrices is the the product of the matrices in the opposite order? 02:38:06 also deMorgan's laws are very similar 02:38:23 omg are we seriously going to make Mecofrom? 02:38:45 if deMorgans laws look similar enough, maybe we could find some even more fundamental way in which they're the same 02:38:48 coof urse! 02:39:03 and then use that to define co-x 02:39:33 where x is anything 02:39:40 augur: note that there is another matrix candidate for the co-matrix, the conjugate transpose 02:40:23 but does it have the beautiful symmetry as (AB)^-1 has? 02:40:38 s/as/that 02:40:40 exactly the same iirc 02:40:50 deMorgan's is !(A*B) = !A | !B ... so, if you have co(*) = |, that's just distribution of co- over the subexpressions of an expression 02:41:09 :o 02:41:15 brilliant! 02:41:31 oerjan: whats conjugate transpose? 02:41:34 these are all duality constructions 02:41:42 hm. 02:42:02 so can we find some fundamental similarity between these things? 02:42:07 augur: for transpose, you switch rows and columns 02:42:10 aside from just visual similarity? 02:42:26 otoh, there are other ways to define co of boolean and (such as nand, where the truth table is simply complemented) 02:42:30 i think we've stumbled on to a branch of mathematics that his as yet unexplored! 02:42:34 perhaps even important! :o 02:42:43 conjugate means if there is an imaginary part, you negate it 02:43:08 augur: certainly not, dualities are old hat 02:43:23 are they? 02:43:27 we need to look into them more 02:43:44 afk going to get icecream 02:43:55 or is it... co-icecream 02:44:47 Hrnm, so since you have coordinates, which means you need ordinates. 02:45:02 ordinate is a technical term 02:45:06 yes 02:46:29 but how i have yet to see how the this coconstruction preserves that relationship 02:46:41 and confusingly it's not the opposite of coordinate, but an example of it 02:47:25 ah good point 02:47:28 the co- there is probably in the general sense of "together with" 02:48:07 yeah coz ordinate opposes abcissa as the set of coordinates in 2d =) 02:48:50 the categorical special use as a dual construction probably came out of generalizing a lot of co- names that fit that pattern, but not all do 02:49:01 cosine is another counterexample 02:49:24 yeah 02:50:42 er anyways as i was mentioning on #haskell, if you are both cartesian closed and co-(cartesian closed) (so you have coexponentials, etc), any reasonable semantics for your language will cause it to degenerate to a poset. 02:50:56 you wind up with too many laws to satisfy 02:55:17 -!- Nocta has joined. 02:56:44 so you need to strike som kind of balance between getting as many dualities as possible into the language while still not creating so many laws to satisfy that you can't make it TC 02:57:40 olsner: yeah, for instance Haskell is a closed cartesian category, but its not a co-CCC, it lacks an initial object even though it has a terminal object. 02:58:04 in general not every functor is costrong but every functor is strong, etc. 02:58:31 before you say that should be every cofunctor, functor = cofunctor ;) 03:00:45 hm laziness makes initial objects tricky - you always have bottom 03:00:58 even if you allow data Void 03:04:14 exactly. you need a total language to fill that crack 03:05:01 you need an uninhabited type so that you can have something such that coidr :: Either a Initial -> a 03:06:03 -!- Nocta^ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:45:35 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:00:47 -!- revcompgeek has joined. 04:02:14 -!- revcompgeek has quit (Client Quit). 04:05:16 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:05:31 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:11:58 -!- iEhird has joined. 04:12:03 -!- iEhird has quit (Client Quit). 04:12:43 -!- tusho has joined. 04:13:58 Rodgerthegreat: I would love to know how you equate the semantics of the eso "forum" (as you put it) with 4chan. 04:14:23 Also, that post was made by slereah as a joke. 04:15:24 it's an anonymous board 04:15:41 it looks visually similar as well 04:15:49 it uses tripcodes 04:15:51 etc, etc 04:16:21 4chan was the first anonymous board, ever, and it proves that all anonymous boards, ever, are just like it. Riiiiight. 04:17:03 there's also the thing that 4chan is, you know, an _imageboard_ 04:17:06 hey 04:17:32 tusho: you seem frightfully offended at being compared to 4chan 04:17:38 it does not look similar unless you select the futaba style 04:17:42 and no 04:17:52 it's just incorrect 04:18:34 and to offer incorrect reasoning for the audience being inferior is something I wish to correct. 04:20:01 As for your last point, tripcodes are a simple way to offer identification on an anonymous board. Besides the SW was there and it already had them, so I see no negatives. 04:21:36 oh my god what the hell were you guys talking about!? x_x 04:21:45 crap. 04:22:14 or "crap" if you prefer 04:22:45 cocrap? 04:23:03 cocrap functors 04:23:15 profunctors 04:23:22 promonads 04:23:40 positive :: a -> p a 04:24:04 happy :: p a -> (a -> p b) -> p b 04:24:23 fulfilled :: String -> p a 04:24:30 x_x 04:24:40 x_x 04:24:50 I, too am tired. 04:24:57 im not tired 04:25:09 Perhaps since its 4:23 am. 04:25:13 your haskell function stuff killed me 04:25:30 positive == return, happy == fmap? 04:25:49 happy = (>>=) 04:25:51 :p 04:26:01 oh right right sorry 04:26:06 fulfilled is fail 04:26:09 wait no 04:26:14 happy is fmap i think 04:26:19 no 04:27:16 btw. iPhone touchpads are things I still have not gotten the hang of. 04:27:25 I'm at an ok speed though. 04:27:42 ok 04:27:55 (it is of course what I am typing on now) 04:27:58 happy has to be fmap 04:28:04 wrong 04:28:06 because >>= is m (m a) -> m a 04:28:12 no 04:28:16 that's join 04:28:28 >>= is join.. 04:28:32 no 04:28:34 >>= is bind 04:28:35 no its not 04:28:39 yes 04:29:19 -!- tusho has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:29:32 fmap is (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 04:29:33 right 04:29:33 -!- tusho has joined. 04:29:43 wups 04:29:46 fmap is (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 04:29:47 right 04:29:53 yah 04:30:04 ok, yeah. 04:30:16 god, its so confusing 04:30:17 XD 04:30:36 augur- comonads are fun: 04:30:49 shut up shut up shut up :P 04:31:02 coreturn :: c a -> a 04:31:16 omg what does that even mean X_X 04:31:39 cobind :: a -> (c a -> c b) -> b 04:31:54 omg stop 04:32:00 augur- monads are hard to unwrap 04:32:15 comonads are hard to wrap instead 04:32:54 i dont even know wtf any of this means T_T 04:33:21 oh well. Anyone have any words before I go? 04:33:46 no? 04:34:15 bye 04:34:17 quasiconformal 04:34:25 -!- tusho has left (?). 04:35:04 quasiconformal comonaquandad 05:14:00 there are tons of comonads actually =) 05:14:18 not that i'm particularly biased about the topic 05:14:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:56:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:15:08 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:37:26 -!- edwardk has left (?). 06:43:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:21:59 -!- sekhmet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:22:02 -!- sekhmet has joined. 07:36:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:45:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:50:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Saliendo"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:44:19 so i learned about haskell's filterM having multiple valid filtered return values today 09:02:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:43:06 -!- augur has changed nick to augur[sleep]. 09:43:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:25:34 hihi, coconuts 10:29:53 what would you suggest for learning perl? 10:30:29 hmm... i guess i should actually try using it 10:36:11 -!- augur[sleep] has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:36:28 -!- augur has joined. 10:41:19 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:09:17 -!- kar8nga has joined. 11:28:24 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 11:47:11 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 11:50:00 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:50:17 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 11:53:38 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 11:56:36 -!- Asztal has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9pre/2008060209]"). 12:12:13 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:12:19 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 13:16:17 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:21:35 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:22:51 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:07:19 has anyone tried to use TeX as a macroprocessor for anything else than typesetting? 14:08:49 Ah shit. 14:09:35 For the - how will it work for moar than one variable if Scheme does not accept feeding only one variable :o 14:25:27 -!- olsner has joined. 14:27:42 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 14:38:35 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:53:54 wow, board wiped? 16:12:45 -!- Slereah6 has joined. 16:12:45 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:13:05 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Recursion&redirect=no 16:13:21 WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE! 16:14:53 haha 16:14:57 very nice 16:19:57 heh 16:39:12 -!- Slereah5 has joined. 16:39:47 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:40:30 -!- Slereah6 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:55:17 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 17:24:01 -!- tusho has joined. 17:24:04 halo 17:26:33 -!- Slereah7 has joined. 17:27:48 halo Slereah7 17:28:40 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:30:08 Why hulo thar 17:30:50 :P 17:31:04 -!- Slereah7 has changed nick to Slereah. 17:31:23 -!- Slereah5 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:31:26 tusho my boy. 17:31:36 what 17:31:41 Remember this? (mu (lambda (x) (f x y z)) 0) 17:31:46 Yas 17:32:14 But how will it work, since Scheme does not accept to be fed undefined variables? D: 17:32:36 I tried, but he wants every variable, and he wants actual objects! 17:32:39 Slereah: Well presumably 'y' and 'z' are defined. 17:32:44 Here is what I mean. 17:32:50 mu_y(f(1,2,y,3,4)) 17:32:51 can be 17:32:57 (mu (lambda (y) (f 1 2 y 3 4)) 0) 17:33:09 So, you only need single-arg mu, as it is. 17:33:15 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Recursion&redirect=no 17:33:17 great! 17:33:23 has anyone tried to use TeX as a macroprocessor for anything else than typesetting? 17:33:27 AnMaster: yes 17:33:29 they have 17:33:33 it doesn't work well. 17:33:35 tusho, wow? 17:33:41 well it would be very esoteric 17:33:44 to use it for, say, C 17:33:45 :D 17:33:49 AnMaster: Well, yeah -- someone wrote an IRC bot in PostScript. 17:33:54 well true 17:33:55 Hm. 17:33:57 but that is postscript 17:33:57 But, you know, it's not useful or anything. 17:34:07 AnMaster: TeX is TC, it's just not nice like PS. 17:34:13 I mean using TeX as a macroprocessor in order to do something else 17:34:17 Yes. 17:34:19 Well. 17:34:20 after all you could use it to generate C code 17:34:23 It can't output to stdout, can it? 17:34:25 I don't think so. 17:34:29 tusho, I think it can 17:34:31 You could make it typeset a C program that it generates, though. 17:34:32 I'll check mister Kleene 17:34:32 See what he says about the function 17:34:33 That would be fun. 17:34:39 tusho, because I run some interactive TeX programs 17:34:48 AnMaster: Sounds like an abomination. 17:34:57 An affront against all that is holy, even. 17:34:59 tusho, a TeX program that asked questions and generated a natbib style file 17:35:10 official part of natbib iirc 17:35:11 p.s. I hereby Swhack AnMaster. 17:35:14 * tusho watches him squirm 17:35:22 p. s. I don't play ircnomic any more 17:35:35 and I reject that Swhack 17:35:48 AnMaster: I was trying to irritate you because it wasn't IN ALL CAPS 17:36:01 Also, we suffusioned a while back and started writing actual rules, and have an actual Tracker. 17:36:05 who are you? 17:36:10 We don't have Swhacks any more though, I think it's been dead for a few days. 17:36:14 oh you are ehird? 17:36:19 ah that explains it 17:36:19 Well, for significantly long days. 17:36:31 Like, days that last 3. 17:36:50 Oh wait. 17:37:19 http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib/ 17:37:20 THERE 17:37:29 AnMaster: IS IT THERE 17:37:47 tusho, the interactive LaTeX program 17:37:59 1. Run TeX (or LaTeX) on makebst.ins (--> makebst.tex) 17:37:59 2. Run TeX (or LaTeX) on makebst.tex to start customizing 17:37:59 your own .bst file. Select merlin as the master file (default) when 17:37:59 asked. (I have other master files for my own purposes.) 17:38:11 AnMaster: By the way, I'm talking to you from the console. 17:38:17 I am browsing the web in w3m. X is unstable. :P 17:38:29 well I got nothing against irssi or similar 17:38:34 anyway you can just use ftp... 17:38:45 plus: 17:38:47 You can get this entire directory bundled as custom-bib.zip. 17:38:51 http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib.zip 17:39:00 tusho, download it and have a look if you want 17:39:23 ah I think it is http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/custom-bib/makebst.tex 17:39:31 \def\ask#1#2{\mes{#2}\read\ttyin to #1\ifx#1\defpar\def#1{}\else 17:39:31 \edef#1{\expandafter\remblk#1@@}\fi} 17:39:32 hah 17:39:33 :D 17:39:45 tusho, there you have it 17:39:54 \def\wr#1{\immediate\write\outfile{#1}} 17:40:07 AnMaster: crazy 17:40:10 agreed 17:40:14 I couldn't write it 17:40:15 i think there's a good argument that tex shouldn't ahve that 17:40:20 * AnMaster normally use LyX 17:40:27 it's not particularly useful, that abomination should probably be a C file that hooks into TeX 17:40:36 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:40:36 tusho, well it is rather natural to write a program to generate a LaTeX style file, in LaTeX 17:40:37 -!- Slereah7 has joined. 17:40:37 after all 17:40:39 people seem to have a fetish for making things be able to use stdin/out and files and all that crap 17:40:42 bash? not portable 17:40:44 no matter what the purpose of the language 17:40:46 *.bat? 17:40:48 not portable 17:40:56 see the issue? 17:40:57 AnMaster: .c is pretty portable. 17:41:01 JUST SAYIN' 17:41:07 while this program will work on any platform you can use the result on 17:41:20 AnMaster: Or you could use Knuth's Pascal dialect that TeX is written in. 17:41:28 But, to be honest, C is pretty fcking portable 17:41:29 tusho, sure, but is C really that good for this? This is a job for a script 17:41:31 IMO 17:41:39 and yes C is portable 17:41:43 AnMaster: TeX is a more horrific scripting language than C... 17:41:45 but this is IMO a job for a script 17:41:50 tusho, agreed! 17:41:52 and a TeX program is not a script 17:41:56 note that I didn't code this however 17:41:58 Therefore, C would be the best choice given the parameters. 17:42:06 It's either TeX or C or KnuthPascal. 17:42:09 tusho, however you got to agree it is portable to every platform that can run TeX? 17:42:12 The last one makes you insane. 17:42:20 The first one makes other people think you're insane. 17:42:23 The middle one is pretty sane. 17:42:24 tusho : Well, it's always nice to be able to see if it works! 17:42:24 And it's a nice way to check it 17:42:28 hahah 17:42:34 tusho, but agree it is rather esoteric? 17:42:39 AnMaster: Nowadays TeX is translated into C to be compiled 17:42:45 Slereah7, this is a serious application 17:42:45 so, C would basically work on everything TeX works 17:42:49 yes true it is... 17:42:51 apart from machines from the 70s! 17:43:00 tusho, and do we care about those? YES WE DO 17:43:05 AnMaster: Yes! 17:43:07 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:43:08 * AnMaster has gone insane with backward compatiblity 17:43:08 Every program should be like C-INTERCAL. 17:43:15 since I started coding on crossfire 17:43:25 crossfire is a MMORPG, the FIRST MMORPG 17:43:33 project started in 1992 17:43:37 AnMaster: you were horrified when you saw ais523 coding for DOS compatibility 17:43:38 :-) 17:43:45 so LOTS and LOTS of backward compatiblity 17:43:51 1992 ain't that ancient 17:44:00 tusho, yes well, crossfire was *nix mostly and later windows too 17:44:09 never DOS 17:44:15 AnMaster: hm, before I start X and give way to unpredictable system behaviour, I think I'll code a c program. 17:44:30 Hmm...which to do...I think wc(1). 17:44:35 Maybe a simple fortune(1). 17:44:48 1992 is old enough to result in a lot of #ifdef for odd systems no longer in use 17:44:49 And I'll code it with vi(1), of course. 17:44:52 tusho, 17:44:54 and stuff 17:44:55 like: 17:45:04 sprintf(buffer, untrusteddata);M 17:45:07 err remove M there 17:45:24 anyway that should be 1) snprintf, 2) have a format string like %s 17:45:34 AnMaster: snprintf is not portable 17:45:35 even nowadays 17:45:37 I fixed quite a few crash bugs 17:45:38 i'm afraid 17:45:50 tusho, C99, and we got a #ifndef HAVE_SNPRINTF 17:45:52 however, I do believe the incantation you gave there should be a strcpy! :P 17:45:53 to work around that 17:45:59 tusho, indeed it should 17:46:20 AnMaster: see, making it snprintf and adding the formatting string is a very stupid kind of programming 17:46:23 it's: 17:46:26 "this code has an issue, let's fix that issue" 17:46:28 instead of: 17:46:40 "this code has an issue, what is it trying to do? let's write what it's trying to do, properly" 17:46:43 well I fixed it with strncpy 17:46:47 good 17:46:49 and we got our own version of that 17:46:52 if the system doesn't 17:47:09 like we do for snprintf too 17:48:01 and iirc we got an insecure tmpfile that is 1) predictable 2) bad performance 3) got race conditions 17:48:07 something I plan to fix later 17:48:17 (as in later today, a bit busy atm) 17:48:33 AnMaster: have you seen the ESO proto-site? :P 17:48:40 most of yesterday was setting up apache, so not a lot happened 17:48:44 tusho, hm that forum? took a quick look 17:48:52 yesterday iirc 17:48:55 AnMaster: was it still filled with spam at the time? 17:49:08 don't remember, just looked at the git repo 17:49:12 not at the actual site heh 17:49:14 i wiped all that due to the general uselessness of it all 17:49:20 AnMaster: wait, did you look at the git repo or the forum? :P 17:49:23 spam that fast? 17:49:32 AnMaster: as in spam for our dear #esoteric 17:49:38 spam, well, pointless posts. 17:49:48 tusho, the forum code in the git repo, through the cgit web interface 17:49:56 e.g. Slereah put some copypasta on because the Futaba style reminded him of /b/ (heh) 17:50:02 which was alright, because it was just once 17:50:04 oh my 17:50:14 but then Rodger went on complaining about the fact that it was an anonymous BBS 17:50:29 and then someone, seeing this and deciding they might as well go the whole way, posted a topic trying to get to 1000GET 17:50:31 tusho, that forum, is it just me, or does it look like a cross of moinmoin wiki software and a forum? 17:50:42 AnMaster: it's an anonymous BBS 17:50:50 read the header at the top, it's a brief explanation 17:50:59 but it does look quite similar 17:51:03 there's a Board look: line 17:51:03 ah 17:51:07 if you have JS enabled you can choose some styles 17:51:27 ah I don't use a js enabled browser atm 17:51:41 "Board look: Blue Moon" haha I read that as "Blue Moroon" 17:51:44 AnMaster: they're also available as Alternate Stylesheets 17:51:49 if your browser supports selecting them 17:51:56 Fx does 17:52:13 ah 17:52:15 Hm. 17:52:26 anyway *enables javascript* 17:52:39 just on most sites javascript cause a huge slowdown 17:52:40 Apparently, is either defined as using "for all x", or returning a function. 17:52:41 Or just using one argument. 17:53:11 for example the site for the local newspaper loads in 4 seconds when I block ads and scripts, 10 if I just block ads, and 25 if I don't block either 17:53:13 tusho, ^ 17:53:23 + it makes browser slow after too 17:53:29 -!- tusho has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:54:14 Slereah7, is it just me or are the forum styles Pseud0ch and VIPPER the same? 17:54:41 -!- tusho has joined. 17:54:47 sorry about that. 17:54:51 tusho, what was the last you saw? 17:55:28 I did say some important things, so what do I need to repaste 17:55:52 -!- tusho has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 17:56:03 .. 17:56:12 -!- Slereah7 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 17:56:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:56:34 -!- tusho has joined. 17:56:38 tusho, 17:56:38 geh. 17:56:41 sorry about that. 17:56:41 tusho, what was the last you saw? 17:56:41 I did say some important things, so what do I need to repaste 17:56:47 I'll check the logs. 17:57:37 09:54:14 Slereah7, is it just me or are the forum styles Pseud0ch and VIPPER the same? 17:57:37 nope 17:57:41 VIPPER has bluer text 17:57:46 and some other colours are subtly different 17:57:48 ah 17:58:08 tusho, and about the general moaning about javascript? 17:58:11 AnMaster: But yeah, JS can be used for crap. 17:58:16 Still, Kareha uses it quite elgantly. 17:58:19 *elegantly 17:58:25 Kareha is the forum? 17:58:27 Although, I'm unsure if the deletion links work without it. Maybe. 17:58:34 AnMaster: Yeah, it's open source and all that. 17:58:37 (I didn't write it.) 17:58:56 ah I see 17:59:10 the delete link didn't work for me (I don't have javascript on atm) 17:59:18 ok, you can't delete posts in kareha without JS, because the [Del] link is used to pop up a confirmation box. Of course, you can just manually do whatever it does, but. 17:59:22 AnMaster: haha, I was just typing that 18:00:57 -!- tusho_ has joined. 18:00:57 -!- tusho has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:01:07 Lolz. 18:01:16 Anyway, yeah, it'd be nice if the delete worked without JS. 18:01:24 I'll probably send a patch off to !WAHa.06x36 18:02:11 AnMaster: Oh, and there will be a bot on eso-std.org soon that logs this channel actually reliably 18:02:15 and a web interface for searching it 18:02:22 which is something we lack right now, good log searching 18:02:30 (I'll also import all of tunes.org's old logs in to the system) 18:02:38 hm 18:02:44 also what is up with your connection? 18:03:37 -!- tusho_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:03:39 hah 18:04:16 -!- tusho has joined. 18:04:21 Stable machine never crashes. 18:04:23 Oh ho ho! 18:04:32 I heard nuttin' after "hm" 18:05:33 And it's not my connection 18:05:37 It's my machine, AnMaster! My machine! 18:05:45 Specifically, my graphics card and its love affair with Linux: it has none. 18:05:54 They fight a lot. And then the machine crashes. 18:06:03 also what is up with your connection? 18:06:03 * tusho_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:06:03 hah 18:06:15 Yeah, I checked logs. 18:06:15 ah 18:06:18 right 18:06:18 that's why I said my connectoin 18:06:20 *connection 18:06:28 I just read up to " I heard nuttin' after "hm"" 18:06:29 and pasted 18:06:33 * AnMaster is is multi-tasking 18:06:48 1) coding C 2) talking in this chan 3) talking elsewhere 18:07:11 * augur is unitasking 18:07:17 AnMaster: Want a WTFy algorithm? 18:08:46 AnMaster: It is very WTFy. 18:08:57 well sure 18:09:13 as long as it isn't in oklotalk or such ;P 18:09:37 -!- tusho has quit ("Leaving"). 18:09:42 .. 18:09:44 well 18:09:53 -!- tusho has joined. 18:09:59 that wasn't a crash 18:10:01 AnMaster: it wasn't 18:10:09 Anyway, no, I'll tell it in pseudocode. 18:10:12 Just so you can see how wtfy it is. 18:10:15 ok sure 18:10:20 that or C are ok 18:10:30 AnMaster: It takes a string, and returns a string. 18:10:32 Here's how it works: 18:10:45 Convert the input into Shift-JIS (a common japanese character set). 18:11:05 Replace the chars & < > " ' with & < > " ' (respectively) 18:11:15 Generate another string: 18:11:24 - Take the second and third characters of the input with 'H.' appended to it. 18:11:33 - Replace any characters not between '.' and 'z' with '.'. 18:11:34 hum? 18:11:50 between? as in the byte is between? 18:11:55 - Replace any of the characters in :;<=>?@[\]^_` with the corresponding character from ABCDEFGabcdef 18:12:00 AnMaster: Yes, according to Shift-JIS. 18:12:04 And now, the final step: 18:12:04 ah I see 18:12:30 Call the crypt() function with the input (post-converting-and-mangling) and the other string we just generated as the salt. 18:12:37 Then, take the last 10 characters of its result. 18:12:44 AnMaster: _THAT_ is how you turn a tripcode key into the encoded form. 18:12:58 a tripcode? 18:13:04 AnMaster: read the top of eso-std.org's forum 18:13:21 well I agree that the algorithm is quite wtf 18:13:29 Anyway, the escaping of the characters into HTML entities is presumably a case of just misplacing your escapes: but that was in 1999, and we're stuck with it now 18:13:37 -!- Nocta has quit. 18:13:42 The shift-jis thing is because, well, 2ch (the original anonymous board) is in Japanese. 18:13:55 The salt thing, I have no idea. The 'H.' appending is to ensure a minimum size, I know that much. 18:14:05 I think the replacing of characters for it is because of the range of crypt() 18:14:09 gah 18:14:16 The last 10 character thing is just so that the tripcodes are not too long. 18:14:37 AnMaster: Thankfully, the resulting tripcodes aren't that obscure. 18:14:48 well crypt() differs between systems don't it? 18:14:48 'tripcode' encodes into '3GqYIJ30bs' 18:14:51 which doesn't look too ugly 18:14:55 I mean actual implementation can differ 18:15:04 AnMaster: It's the traditional DES one 18:15:20 ah des_crypt() then 18:15:20 ie. regular unix crypt 18:15:31 iirc the crypt() on *nix may not be DES nowdays 18:15:46 I'm not sure about that though 18:16:08 AnMaster: Yeah, most software calls the specific DES version 18:16:31 Anyway, the end result of that godawful algorithm is that when I need to identify myself, my name shows up as tusho!pkokkY2.Ig 18:16:48 That's the point of a tripcode. 18:16:50 (! seperates name and tripcode. To avoid impersonation by using ! in the name, the name is bold and the tripcode regular (or italics or whatever)) 18:16:53 Slereah: Yes. Of course. 18:16:56 You TRIPFAG 18:17:13 Slereah: Oh shut up. Sometimes identification is neccessary so a post makes sense. 18:17:19 :D 18:17:25 anyway, I was just explaining it to AnMaster for the wtfy-algorithm part. 18:18:10 POSIX 1003.1-2001 says (line 7710): "The crypt() function is a string encoding function. The algorithm is implementation-defined." 18:18:20 fizzie2: Yes. 18:18:22 It's DES crypt(). 18:18:28 Meh, there's a '2' again. 18:18:30 -!- fizzie2 has changed nick to fizzie. 18:18:31 We just had that discussion, if you read. 18:18:37 tusho, heh 18:18:53 I did read it; it was just a confirmationatey "plain crypt() can indeed be something else" comment. 18:18:59 fizzie: OK 18:19:07 AnMaster: Oh, and when I said about sending a patch to !WAHa.06x36, that is (perhaps obviously now) a person who is identified solely by their tripcode. 18:19:17 Well, and their real name, which is public. 18:19:30 The key for that trip is hR6k, it was cracked a while ago. 18:19:32 hm 18:19:40 (tripcodes are very easy to crack because they have a limited keyspace) 18:19:49 but, uh, nobody cares. 18:20:06 Well some people do so they invented 'secure tripcodes', which basically use a sane algorithm with a modern hashing function. 18:20:12 But they differ from board to board, so they suck. 18:20:31 what did you expect? des_crypt() only looks at first 8 chars iirc? 18:21:10 AnMaster: yep 18:21:14 and all of the other replacements 18:21:18 and because you only use the last 8 characters 18:21:27 and also... what about replay attack? 18:21:36 tusho, you said 10 chars above 18:21:37 not 8 18:21:41 AnMaster: er, yes 18:21:55 and, replay attack, no idea. I have a 126 line C program on here that tracks tripcodes. 18:22:00 Why does the Ghostscript View logo look like a Klansman? 18:22:09 It's all mega-optimized and stuff, and 21 lines are the bloomin' license 18:22:12 I mean. isn't the string "tusho!pkokkY2.Ig" fixed? 18:22:16 And it searches REGEXES. 18:22:19 after all I could reuse that couldn't I? 18:22:23 AnMaster: No. 18:22:26 If you use in the name field: 18:22:28 "tusho!foo" 18:22:30 then it would display as 18:22:36 *tusho!foo* (* = bold) 18:22:41 but if I had the real tripcode 'foo' 18:22:47 and did "tusho#magicfookey" 18:22:48 it would be 18:22:48 how does it check tripcode then? 18:22:52 *tusho*!foo 18:23:02 so... server knows the private bit? 18:23:03 or not? 18:23:06 AnMaster: No. 18:23:08 You enter it each time. 18:23:20 (Well, most boards set a cookie so it remembers it.) 18:23:21 well it could technically register it 18:23:32 AnMaster: Well, technically it could. But what would it do with it? 18:23:42 Here, let me post a test thread on the ESO forum to demonstrate. 18:23:44 also what about that "securetrip" thing? 18:24:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:24:12 AnMaster: it's encoded using a non-wtfy algo 18:24:14 sha1 and that shizz 18:24:24 ah 18:24:31 sha1 isn't that good 18:24:37 sha256 or better 18:24:48 AnMaster: it's good enough for practical use here 18:24:50 AnMaster: it's good enough 18:25:01 eh, Kareha treats ! as a tripcode seperator along with # 18:25:04 so I can't forge, anyway 18:25:07 * tusho deletes that thread 18:25:23 ais523: have you read the logs? 18:25:26 the tripcode algorithm is lollerific 18:25:27 no 18:25:30 I've only just got here 18:25:35 ais523: wait, I'll just copypasta 18:25:53 Convert the input into Shift-JIS (a common japanese character set). 18:25:54 Replace the chars & < > " ' with & < > " ' (respectively) 18:25:54 Generate another string: 18:25:54 - Take the second and third characters of the input with 'H.' appended to it. 18:25:54 - Replace any characters not between '.' and 'z' with '.'. 18:25:54 - Replace any of the characters in :;<=>?@[\]^_` with the corresponding character from ABCDEFGabcdef 18:25:57 Call the crypt() function with the input (post-converting-and-mangling) and the other string we just generated as the salt. 18:26:00 Then, take the last 10 characters of its result. 18:26:06 where crypt() is des_crypt 18:27:26 [[ 18:27:27 Just how will Apple meet expectations? Using the patent application as a guide, Apple appears to be making room on the iPhone for flash memory, which means an end to Apple's standoff with Adobe (ADBE) that's kept iPhones from easily viewing a plethora of Internet videos. 18:27:28 ]] 18:27:35 Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees... I don't think that's what flash means. 18:27:47 who wrote that? 18:28:08 ais523: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200806051525DOWJONESDJONLINE000819_FORTUNE5.htm 18:28:09 via reddit 18:28:11 ...and I can understand people getting confused by Flash meaning two different things 18:28:17 -By Ben Charny, Dow Jones Newswires; 415-765-8230; ben.charny@dowjones.com 18:47:07 -!- tusho has changed nick to ehird. 18:47:43 -!- ehird has changed nick to tusho. 18:51:39 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 19:26:54 -!- ihope has joined. 19:29:40 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:29:53 -!- Slereah7 has joined. 19:33:31 -!- AAAAAAue4njxuz has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:33:31 -!- GregorR has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:36:30 -!- AAAAAAue4njxuz has joined. 19:43:27 -!- GregorR has joined. 19:48:25 tusho: good lord. This is why reporters are useless. 19:48:34 RodgerTheGreat: :-) 19:48:47 that's absolutely astounding 19:48:52 welp, so much for CNN 19:49:50 So I'm going to create an esolangs subreddit. esolangs, esolang, or esoteric? 19:49:55 -!- GregorR has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:50:15 I'd vote for "esoteric", to match this channel 19:50:20 might make it easier to find 19:50:24 RodgerTheGreat: esolangs.org, though 19:50:28 and people might want esoteric for, well, esoterica 19:50:34 oh, hm. 19:50:51 subreddit? 19:51:22 ""Is it a land grab and attempt to create (patent) toll roads throughout iPhone Universe or just protection against a would-be competitor outflanking Apple and establishing barriers against them and their developer ecosystem?," said Mark Sigal, who writes the popular Network Garden blog." <- this is a maze of confused metaphors 19:51:23 Slereah7: Like, 'programming' and 'politics' and 'pics'. 19:51:38 You can make your own, now. 19:51:40 For, like, a few months. 19:51:44 So I guess an esolang one would be nice 19:51:47 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_Portal#This_user_is_spamming. 19:51:48 Dude 19:51:53 That guy is such a dick. 19:52:02 He removed my awesome joke. 19:52:22 and he's apparently french. nice. 19:52:26 No 19:52:29 That's me :o 19:52:36 oh. :/ 19:52:37 He wants me banned too :o 19:52:41 ...sorry. 19:52:41 Or something 19:52:55 It's "Melab" 19:52:59 Whoever that is 19:53:12 Slereah7: replied'd 19:53:23 and revertin' 19:53:52 Yay 19:53:56 I have reverted his blanking with 'revert page blanking spam 19:53:57 :DD 19:53:59 this is probably my favorite thing on the entire wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP#99_bottles 19:54:11 Heh. 19:54:26 RodgerTheGreat: at some point people changed all examples to 'go to hell' except that one, which they replaced with a performance of the song 19:54:28 unfortunately, it was reverted 19:54:35 aw. 19:54:45 -!- GregorR has joined. 19:54:54 It might need some cake though. 19:54:55 I have a cameo on the "Iterating Quine" implementation 19:55:11 RodgerTheGreat: and 19:55:12 ERROR 8: DON'T_BE_A_DOUCHE_TO_YOUR_INTERPRETER ERROR 19:55:15 which is famous 19:55:18 :D 19:55:31 I'm proud of that one 19:55:41 -!- tusho has changed nick to botte. 19:56:02 ignore me, registering a nick 19:57:45 * Slereah7 ignores botte 19:59:30 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Limp.txt 19:59:40 Here's a first draft of it 19:59:47 Wot do you think? 20:00:12 '''λιμπ''' 20:00:15 :D 20:00:22 I didn't put in restrictions for processes, 'cause I so far don't have a lot of idea of how to use it 20:00:29 Slereah7: I hope you put it on the tite λιμπ 20:00:31 title 20:00:50 Slereah7: how would you pronounce the name of this language? 20:00:55 it are "Lambda-iota-mu-pi" 20:01:13 not "Limupi" or somesuch? 20:01:24 I suppose just "Limp" 20:01:33 It was basically made to sound like "Lisp" 20:01:45 Except I have no use for this s! 20:03:29 call it "λιφπ" 20:03:38 "Lithp" 20:03:41 RodgerTheGreat: no 20:03:44 aw. :/ 20:03:45 it combines all those languages 20:04:00 Also, my IRC can't display greek characters 20:04:13 I get char salads. 20:04:19 well I basically just changed the mu to a phi 20:04:32 Slereah7: melab apologied 20:04:37 It is a little too gay, even for Alan Turing 20:04:43 Yay :D 20:04:49 ais523: got a page for you to delete... 20:04:50 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Good_Esolang_Articles 20:04:56 another melab creation, but unfortunately totally useless 20:04:57 "liphp" 20:04:59 and subjective 20:05:10 RodgerTheGreat: 20:05:40 or maybe ?> 20:05:51 Lithp would probably just say "Hello thailor!" 20:05:56 haha 20:06:20 I once designed a virtual CPU architecture called "FITH" that was vaguely based on FORTH. 20:06:44 and the revised version was called FITH D-2. 20:06:46 ais523: anything re: deletion? 20:06:52 just a suggestion of course 20:06:55 but I don't think it's useful 20:06:57 botte: I was trying to do some of it 20:07:04 I would have managed it too if you hadn't stolen focus from me 20:07:12 Ups. :P 20:08:37 ais523: I think melab has the lowest useful contrib:contrib ratio on esolang 20:08:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Melab 20:08:46 aargh, stop that 20:08:46 and the most redirects 20:08:49 oh, oops 20:08:50 sorry 20:09:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Jumble 20:09:12 um. 20:09:12 Heh. 20:09:17 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Programming_Languages_Glossary 20:09:20 Ahahah 20:09:29 and he dares say I'm spamming! 20:09:44 This is going to be, (once other people write it for me) 20:10:27 How awesome would that be if it worked. 20:10:46 However, it kinda seems like me and ais are ripping on him now ;( 20:10:47 ;; This is going to be the Limp interpreter in Scheme 20:11:00 haha 20:11:01 DO IT 20:11:06 ok 20:11:07 (limp) 20:11:17 Awesome. 20:11:48 I hope my pi book arrives soon. 20:12:00 I want to get on with the specs. 20:12:20 I wonder though 20:12:32 Should I name the channel towards the user "Alice"? 20:13:16 Slereah7: Or bob., 20:13:22 I dunno. 20:13:33 I might do more than one, too. 20:13:45 Although I rarely use anything else than stdin/out 20:14:34 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Jumble wow 20:14:36 oh 20:14:37 I already pasted that 20:14:47 Who is that guy? 20:14:53 And when do we get to meet him? 20:15:07 And how can we convince him to go on the EsCo project? 20:15:29 Slereah7: I managed to clean up after Melab, writing them a friendly warning now... 20:16:41 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Limp 20:16:43 Thar 20:17:32 Slereah7: Put it at the unicode name. 20:17:36 And add a Limp redirect 20:17:47 Well, it's a draft 20:17:49 Slereah7: Oh, and how about having Limp the first ESO language? 20:17:53 I don't care too much right now. 20:18:03 my lord 20:18:04 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/My_Favorite_Esoteric_Languages_Articles 20:18:09 -!- GregorR has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:18:10 he never stops writing tiny useless pages 20:18:11 Would it really be a good idea for the eso standard? 20:18:13 :| 20:18:17 I make really horrible interpreters. 20:18:24 ais523: (sorry for ping) but he just made another one 20:18:50 anyway 20:18:54 I think the Recursion redirect is good 20:18:56 it's not as much as a problem in userspace 20:18:59 because it isn't "an infinite loop" 20:19:01 it's this: 20:19:04 recursion, n. see recursion 20:19:05 10 GOTO 10 20:19:10 not see 20:19:12 Wiki redirects can be used as, basically, 'see N' 20:19:14 because that's not done automatically 20:19:16 that's what they're often used for 20:19:18 and that isn't recursive anyway 20:19:24 it's tail recursive 20:19:25 recursion would be see /also/ recursion 20:19:42 ais523: no, not really 20:19:44 botte: in the abstract, it's impossible to distinguish tail recursion from iteration 20:19:47 tail recursion isn't see ALSO 20:19:51 botte: yes it is 20:19:55 recursion implies function calls 20:19:55 Actually, I just put it because of an old quote. 20:19:55 well, exactly, re: tail recursion 20:20:02 but anyway 20:20:03 and function calls implies returning 20:20:06 tail optimisation is an idiom 20:20:10 ais523: uh no 20:20:12 (define (foo) (foo)) 20:20:14 doesn't return 20:20:16 is a tail call 20:20:17 umm... tail recursion is an optimisation 20:20:18 does not mean "see also" 20:20:20 no 20:20:23 tail recursion is a property 20:20:23 but it's done by the compiler, not the programmer 20:20:27 By "recursive" I mean "defined by recursion." 20:20:28 --Harvard's Prof. Sacks 20:20:28 Tail Call Optimization is an optimization 20:20:39 anyway, it's not like recursion needs a real definition, and it's not a bad joke 20:20:43 if the programmer does it by hand (goto &subroutine), then it's iteration 20:20:45 not recursion 20:20:49 and it's an old joke 20:21:00 as in, done to death on Wikipedia and Uncyclopedia already 20:21:06 :D 20:21:13 Sorry. 20:21:19 ais523: is it harming someone? if someone links to [[recursive]], then they get a cheap laugh 20:21:22 otherwise, nobody's harmed 20:21:33 well, there should definitely be a real article at [[recursion]] 20:21:47 i don't think so 20:21:51 what? 20:21:57 we have articles about stacks, for instance 20:21:59 anyone on the esolang wiki already knows or is not likely to understand a definition 20:22:07 and what esolangs use them 20:22:27 ais523 : Underload? :o 20:22:49 Slereah7: yes, likely it would be mentioned in an article about recursion 20:22:50 Queues are the orphans of esolangs. 20:22:54 as would Unlambda 20:23:34 Esolang's about computational structures that esolangs are built out of, as well as the esolangs themselves 20:24:16 ais523: well, I find the joke funny 20:24:20 ais523: how about this: 20:24:21 wait 20:24:29 -!- GregorR has joined. 20:24:30 ihope: do you have an opinion on this? you're the only other Esolang admin online in this channel at the moment 20:24:32 I have an idea 20:24:39 Well, I put it in because there were no articles on recursion. 20:24:40 Hmm? 20:24:45 'Sorry I'm young but enthusiastic' -- melab to ais523 20:24:48 I bet he's asiekerka 20:24:52 or at least around the same age 20:24:54 ihope: [[recursion]] should be a real article IMO 20:24:55 If you want to put a real article instead, go ahead 20:25:01 ehird wants it to be a redirect to [[recursion]] 20:25:04 no 20:25:05 I don't 20:25:06 and not to have an article about it 20:25:06 I haev a better idea 20:25:11 oh dear 20:25:11 it is great 20:25:20 if you're suggesting mutual recursion, that's been done too 20:25:22 ais523: nope 20:25:26 this idea is the best of both worlds 20:25:36 what, put 'see recursion' in a hatnote? 20:25:36 WHAT HAVE I DONE 20:25:43 THESE HANDS, THEY DO NOT CREATE 20:25:48 THEY ONLY DESTROY! 20:25:52 Slereah7: set up circumstances that expose ehird as being immature 20:25:55 ais523: no 20:25:55 Does my opinion matter more because I'm an esolang admin? 20:25:57 just a sec 20:26:05 ais523: can act as a div, right? 20:26:12 ihope: well, it means your opinions are more likely to tally with graue's than other people's 20:26:12 huh wait 20:26:14 is forbidden? 20:26:16 botte: yes, even in IE I think 20:26:19 botte: yes 20:26:21 damnit 20:26:24 how can I get around that? 20:26:27 Slereah7: can they destroy subatomic particles from lead atoms, turning them into gold atoms? 20:26:28 ah, a span with a background 20:26:37 botte: WTF are you trying to do 20:26:48 it may quite possibly be the sort of thing I have to clamp down on 20:26:50 ais523: you'll see 20:26:53 it's simple enough 20:26:56 it's not malicious 20:26:57 just fun 20:27:16 ihope : They can do nuclear reactions with lead atoms 20:27:30 But it would take so much energy there's not a lot of point 20:27:35 Hmm. 20:27:37 You'd get richer selling that energy. 20:28:01 I'm not sure there's a Ld -> Au reaction, but there probably is. 20:31:57 Aw, Melab has no esolang. 20:32:03 I so wanted to see it. 20:32:30 Slereah7: he does 20:32:33 it's in his userspace 20:32:42 Ah yes 20:33:14 Language number 2 isn't very clear so far. 20:33:27 But really, you can see he's beginning. 20:33:41 He yet doesn't know the most important part is finding a spiffy name. 20:33:47 Slereah7: Language number 1 is pretty cool 20:34:35 "The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language." 20:34:44 Donald Knuth knows how it's done! 20:34:54 Slereah7: is that whole thing in quotes the name of a language? 20:34:55 it should be 20:35:04 hahaha 20:35:07 I am going to do that 20:35:47 ais523: Recursion ON WHEELS!!! 20:36:23 botte : Don't do it! 20:36:28 You'll be banned from the wiki! 20:36:36 They'll think you're Willy on Wheels. 20:36:36 Slereah7: ONE MAN... 20:36:39 *phone rings* 20:36:41 "Hi?" 20:36:43 "What is it?" 20:36:46 "We've got... a vandal." 20:36:48 "Is it..." 20:36:49 "Yes." 20:36:50 D: 20:36:52 WILL BE BANNED... 20:37:00 "WE'VE GOT AN EMERGENCY SITUATION!! SOMEONE RENAMED A JOKE PAGE!!" 20:37:04 "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!" 20:37:08 FROM... 20:37:13 "Son, I want you to know I love you." 20:37:17 THE ESOLANG WIKI... 20:37:24 "I'm INNOCENT!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!" 20:37:32 FOR A CRIME HE DID NOT COMMIT... 20:37:40 "Ha, you think you fool us? We know you did it." 20:37:49 COMING 2009... DIRECTED BY STEVEN SPEILBERG.. 20:37:53 "WILLY". 20:38:10 Heh. 20:38:34 Willy is no Grawp. 20:39:29 Also : http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/movietrailer.swf 20:42:02 Slereah7: is this infinite 20:42:08 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:42:09 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:42:16 No 20:42:22 Just quite long. 20:42:36 -!- olsner has joined. 20:42:36 -!- AnMaster has joined. 20:42:42 And THIS WOULD BE THE BEST MOVIE EVER 20:45:30 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:45:31 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:45:53 :o 20:45:59 haskell powersets are AWESOME 20:46:24 Powersets, as in set theory powersets? 20:46:54 yeah man 20:47:04 in haskell 20:47:08 What are they used for? 20:47:22 no clue but the way you get them in haskell is so awesome :o 20:48:15 -!- olsner has joined. 20:48:15 -!- AnMaster has joined. 20:48:42 Cool. The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language. is apparently a valid name for a wiki page. 20:49:11 Heh. 20:49:19 Let's make a language with that name! 20:49:24 Yeah! 20:49:29 It should have everything! 20:49:32 Yeah! 20:49:36 Slereah7: I already suggested that 20:49:40 Yeah! 20:49:42 And it's WITH THE QUOTES. 20:49:49 Now I hereby reserve that language name & pgae. 20:49:52 and page 20:50:00 Combinators, stacks, tapes, whatever 20:50:06 If it exists, I want it in it 20:50:06 You get the one with quotes, we get the one without quotes. 20:50:16 noo 20:50:18 we'll collaborate 20:50:18 <3 20:50:25 So functional elements, both typed and untyped, as well as string manipulation. 20:50:30 ihope: it would be as long as it contains no banned characters (which it doesn't), no partially-banned characters in the wrong context (which it doesn't), and is no more than 255 characters long 20:50:31 it will be a collaborative, wiki-based project to define a LANGUAGE OF STUFF 20:50:32 No, our languages will fight against each other! 20:50:38 ihope: nooo 20:50:39 let's have love 20:50:41 I'll create the page 20:50:43 Okay. 20:50:47 which will be about as useful as Melab's to start with! 20:51:06 Now for a cute little separator that's valid Haskell 20:51:17 ihope: what does that separator do, anyway? 20:51:27 {- and -} are Haskell's comment markers. 20:51:32 botte : The stub should say something like "This is going to be an awesome language" 20:51:34 Or something 20:51:34 So it does nothing at all. 20:51:40 Slereah7: way ahead of you 20:51:40 http://esolangs.org/wiki/%22The_most_important_thing_in_the_programming_language_is_the_name._A_language_will_not_succeed_without_a_good_name._I_have_recently_invented_a_very_good_name_and_now_I_am_looking_for_a_suitable_language.%22 20:52:00 Heh. 20:52:06 We'll call it " for short. 20:52:21 Make sure it uses probability. 20:52:24 I once had an incredibly stupid idea for a language that had pretty much every feature imaginable. 20:52:41 The biggest problem was compatibility between the different paradigm 20:52:44 " is a good name for it 20:52:48 Nickname 20:53:17 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:53:18 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:53:23 heh 20:53:24 Hwo about 20:53:27 *How 20:53:33 "Most important: nickname" 20:53:37 MI:nick 20:53:43 Min 20:53:50 -!- olsner has joined. 20:53:50 -!- AnMaster has joined. 20:54:10 Slereah7: Yes. 20:54:59 We should find an idea before someone says "Oh fuck it let's just make a brainfuck clone" 20:55:26 hm 20:55:42 how about a language based on mutation? 20:56:09 A mutant BF clone? :o 20:56:21 hmm... maybe a rewriting lang that rewrites its own source code 20:56:26 but can only rewrite one char at a tim 20:56:28 like, a basic instruction set largely composed of functionality for copying the program's data, and then in order to loop you have to anticipate a certain percentage of mutation 20:56:28 s/$/e/ 20:56:33 ais523: yes! 20:56:38 wait, no. a _typed_ rewriting language 20:56:49 RodgerTheGreat: that's like Java2K+SMITH 20:56:56 kinda 20:57:03 actually, I'd like to see a lang which is like Java2K but more interesting 20:57:07 doesn't have to resemble those languages too closely 20:57:21 Java2K just had a do everyting twice to square the chance of it failing mechanic 20:57:22 Typed rewriting languages are so... the way of the future. :-) 20:57:25 which was pointeless, really 20:57:27 my first thought was something like redcode, but we could try making it a forthlike, perhaps? 20:58:05 plus I'd imagine this language could be inherently multithreaded as a feature of replication 20:58:20 Maybe we should make *this* the ESO language. 20:58:25 wow suprised isn't a word 20:58:26 X_X 20:58:36 ihope: I agree. 20:58:38 Slereah7: I agree. 20:58:48 I intend to cre- oh wait this isn't agora 20:58:51 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:59:07 RodgerTheGreat: actually rewriting languages tend to end up inherently more or less multithreaded anyway 20:59:14 Thue is multithreaded in my opinion 20:59:17 as is Thutu 20:59:18 yeah 20:59:23 ais523: instead of multi-threaded... 20:59:26 ASYNCHRONOUS 20:59:28 oh wait 20:59:29 and lazy 20:59:36 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:59:38 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 20:59:38 hm 20:59:39 An asynchronous, parallel, lazy, typed rewriting language. 20:59:39 YES 20:59:41 a lazy rewriting lang? does that even make sense? 21:00:04 -!- olsner has joined. 21:00:04 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:00:04 Melab is adding to his favorite language list. 21:00:09 I hope he likes mah langs! 21:00:25 ais523: does a language that simply rewrites its own source being typed make sense? 21:00:28 About as much, I'd say. 21:00:31 As wll as 'asynchronous'. 21:00:31 He seems to like Underload! 21:00:34 Thus, we have a challenge! 21:00:44 botte: I can just about imagine a typed rewriting lang 21:00:51 ais523: that rewrites its own source? 21:00:55 are there any languages that dont evaluation anything until necessary? 21:00:56 yes 21:00:59 e.g. even expressions? 21:01:02 I can't figure out how it would be done 21:01:04 augur: Haskell 21:01:04 augur: No! It's not called haskell. 21:01:09 ais523: augur codes haskell 21:01:10 amusingly 21:01:13 augur : Lazy Bird 21:01:18 Yeah, typed self-rewriting languages are quite possible. 21:01:19 how about a language that only possesses analog values as primitives? 21:01:23 but typed rewriting sort of makes sense 21:01:25 haskell evaluations expressions immediately afaik 21:01:28 as in you can only rewrite integers into integers 21:01:29 ais523: what about that, but where the type system is the value system and it has dependent types? 21:01:32 and functions into otehr functions 21:01:33 You know, that stuff I love so much. 21:01:36 It'd like .. rewrite types 21:01:37 X_X 21:01:41 not that there really are expressions as such but 21:01:46 haskell evaluations expressions immediately afaik 21:01:49 err... 21:01:55 The type system is the value system and it has dependent types. Difficult. :-) 21:01:56 augur is wrong. 21:01:56 evaluates* 21:02:02 ihope: No, not really. 21:02:05 Cayenne has that. 21:02:12 foo :: String -> String 21:02:13 augur: try taking the first 1000 elements of [1..] 21:02:15 String :: Type 21:02:20 (->) :: Type -> Type -> Type 21:02:20 If it's self-rewriting, I mean. 21:02:22 and then tell me that it evaluates expressions immediately 21:02:31 Haskell type synonyms are functions taking some Types and returning one. 21:02:42 Cayenne, eh? 21:02:43 a type that determines the type of a printf formatter - String -> Type 21:02:43 etc. 21:02:45 ais523: list monads aren't expressions i'd say :p 21:02:50 So that, but in a self-rewriting language. 21:02:55 tho haskell doesnt really have expressions in the traditional sense i guess 21:02:58 but like 21:02:59 augur: Don't talk about things you don't know about. 21:03:00 It does. 21:03:00 augur: that has nothing to do with monads 21:03:08 [1..] is an infinite list 21:03:12 Holy shit 21:03:18 i know this ais. 21:03:23 but elements are only evaluated as needed 21:03:24 Melab updated his favlangs *again*? 21:03:30 i know this, ais. 21:03:31 Haskell doesn't have expressions in the traditional sense? 21:03:39 What's the traditional sense, then? 21:03:41 Slereah7: I think he wanted to make it a collaborative project 21:03:42 well, haskell is all functions 21:03:43 How can he even put that much again, did he read all the specs? 21:03:45 Slereah7: I just updated it by removing all his lines of [[]]! 21:03:49 which i guess are a kind of expression 21:03:50 No, it's not. 21:03:50 ais523: 'MY' favourite 21:03:58 he's trying to do something along the lines of Wikipedia's favourite articles, I think 21:04:01 no 21:04:02 3 isn't a function in Haskell. 21:04:03 s/favourite/featured/ 21:04:05 but i was thinking of stuff like expressions in imperative languages 21:04:06 MY favourite esolangs, ais523 21:04:08 and it's in his userspcea 21:04:18 botte: yes, he was trying to do it outside userspace first 21:04:21 I'll forgive him if he <3 my esolangs 21:04:27 i suppose i should rephrase 21:04:30 ais523: He's a wiki noob, that's why. 21:04:34 He doesn't know that "me" doesn't mean "me". 21:04:36 But apparently he didn't like the Andrei Machine 9000. 21:04:47 are there any imperative languages that dont evaluate expressions immediately? 21:04:51 Fuck, I should make an interpreter of that one day 21:04:58 augur: no 21:05:00 that'd be useless 21:05:01 or near it 21:05:10 augur: well, CLC-INTERCAL has something a bit like that 21:05:13 well then 21:05:19 it sounds like we need an esolang with it 21:05:21 :) 21:05:22 you can set up an expression to be evaluated only when it becomes not an error 21:05:27 Wait, the Andrei Machine 9000 isn't in the language list 21:05:28 but it's not the same, really 21:05:33 Maybe he'll find it awesome! 21:06:41 Let's have a language where all instructions are executed only when they need to be, so it's difficult to get things in the right order. 21:06:47 Does anyone have an idea what would be a good language to emulate the andrei machine? 21:07:00 ihope : Like Lazy Bird? 21:07:07 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:08 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:07:09 It is fucking terrible for input! 21:07:10 Slereah7: ideally compiling it into a graph-rewriting lang would work 21:07:10 Maybe. 21:07:14 but I'm not sure if there are any 21:07:24 Eodermdrome is one but I haven't specced it up yet 21:07:35 -!- olsner has joined. 21:07:35 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:07:38 and can't think of a sensible way to write an interp for it 21:07:52 Why Kolmogorov, why didn't you make a language of it! 21:08:14 There's so many paradigm with absolutely no widespread languages. 21:08:20 And even less esolangs 21:08:42 -!- Slereah7 has changed nick to Slereah. 21:08:59 \x.\y.``xyy can't be written any shorter than ``s`k`s``s`k``sii``s`k``s`ksk``s`k`sikk? 21:09:20 Isn't ``ss`ki the same? 21:09:27 I dunno. 21:09:35 I forgot how I got those 21:09:57 Either through my abstraction eliminator or the "Combinator birds" list 21:10:31 ihope: not sure, I'm really bad at evaluating SKI in my head when it's been optimised 21:10:34 Write a better abstraction eliminator. :-) 21:10:42 ```ss`kix = ``sx``kix = ``sxi; ```sxiy = ``xy`iy = ``xyy. 21:10:58 that's reverse abstraction elimination 21:11:10 And don't tell me ``s`k`s``s`k``sii``s`k``s`ksk``s`k`sikk is easier to evaluate in your head. 21:11:12 ihope : my better eliminator doesn't use SKI 21:11:23 Write a slightly worse one, then. :-P 21:11:27 It uses skibc 21:11:33 I also actually have an optimisator 21:11:39 It is called THE JUGGERNAUT 21:11:48 It uses brute force 21:11:58 With... some optimisation. 21:12:38 How about I go and shorten a few of the SKI things on that page? 21:13:49 Do as you wish 21:14:06 As long as it's correct. 21:14:25 -!- Judofyr has quit. 21:14:34 Do as you wish, as long as it's correct. <-- Philosophy of life 21:14:37 `y``xxy, ``si`xx, ``s`k`si``sii. 21:14:48 Same as what's on the wiki already for that one. 21:17:48 If you can also shorten the Fibonacci program, you are quite heroic! 21:18:03 `y`xy, ``six, `si, same as the wiki. `yx, ``si`kx, ``s`k`sik, same as the wiki. `x`yy, ``s`kx``sii, ``s``s`ksk`k``sii, same as the wiki. `x`yz, ``s`kxy, `s`kx, ``s`ksk, same as the wiki. 21:18:29 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:29 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:18:50 I used every mean possible to shorten it 21:19:00 -!- olsner has joined. 21:19:00 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:19:04 And make it totally unreadable 21:19:26 ``xzy, ``sx`ky, ``s`k`sxk, ``s``s`ks``s`kksi`kk... whatever. 21:19:37 -!- botte has changed nick to tusho. 21:20:00 What I'm concerned about now is ``s`k``s``s`k``s`ksks`kk``s`k`sik for ``zxy. 21:20:23 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:20:24 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:20:41 I think I used this one : http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/cus/combinator/birds.html 21:20:55 -!- olsner has joined. 21:20:55 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:21:25 ``zxy, ``s``si`kx`ky, ``s`k`s``si`kxk, ``s``s`ks``s`kk``s`ks``s`k`sik`kk. 21:21:33 * ihope shrugs 21:21:49 I could feed it to the JUGGERNAUT 21:22:04 But I really don't want to wait three days for the results. 21:22:18 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:22:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:22:23 Slereah: it would just output ``zxy, surely? 21:22:26 Well, if your computer can stay up for three days... 21:22:37 :-P 21:22:41 anyway, why not just optimise the Juggernaut a bit? 21:22:48 -!- olsner has joined. 21:22:48 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:23:24 ais523: it's a brute-forcer written in bad python 21:23:25 ais523 : When I noticed it took long hours to do anything complex 21:23:41 I said "Fuck this, I'm going to rewrite the interpreter" 21:23:51 Then, I tried writing it in C. 21:23:52 tusho: exactly, that's why I thought it might be optimisable 21:24:02 But since I'm lame at C, I gave up. 21:26:36 Although it might be simple enough to write in Scheme 21:26:36 And possibly quicker 21:26:36 Although it was already optimised a little 21:26:36 For instance, it discarded such things as `iC 21:26:36 And never went further than a hundred steps or so, in case it wasn't stopping. 21:26:56 (Plus, it was only good for pure combinators, because of the method it used) 21:27:01 Common Lisp 21:27:07 Common Slip 21:27:11 Commons' Lip 21:28:08 "Oh, that's our common lip. Today it's Bob's turn." 21:28:14 http://esolangs.reddit.com/ 21:28:17 ihope: Brilliant. 21:28:44 "Of course, we all talk with it when he's not saying anything." 21:29:05 Who is the other dude, is it Alice? 21:30:44 other dude ... alice 21:30:45 uh-huh 21:30:53 Yep, he's Alice. 21:31:03 It's a cryptographic lip, I bet. 21:35:12 How can you speak if you have no lips, mister Bob 21:35:57 Melab doesn't like mah langs. 21:36:00 That bastard. 21:36:16 Sure, they're stolen from computational models over 40 years old! 21:36:22 But I did them with love and care! 21:37:05 Did I mention http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/? 21:37:19 Yes 21:37:25 What are we supposed to put in it? 21:37:46 Just like what programming.reddit has, but esolangs. 21:38:00 What does programming.reddit has? 21:38:07 Programming stuff. 21:38:29 So... Is it for programs about esolangs, or in esolangs? 21:38:31 Or both 21:38:48 Or neither 21:39:00 Slereah: It's what programming.reddit has, but for esolangs. 21:39:29 "Why I Dislike C++ For Large Projects (mistybeach.com)" 21:39:42 that's just an article someone submitted. 21:39:48 Is it going to be nothing but EsCo jokes? 21:39:58 heh. 21:40:01 I'm trying to figure it out! 21:40:09 It's for links. 21:40:09 * ais523 hasn't heard any good EsCo jokes in a while 21:40:12 Links. About esolangs. 21:40:24 ais523: Well, obviously. The EsCo conspiracy is here - we're all just programs interpreted by it. 21:40:27 Are there any, outside of us? 21:40:31 EsCo!!! 21:40:50 Slereah: yes, lots, but they tend to be old and unmaintained 21:40:59 LOLCODE was the first big new one in a while and it's rubbish 21:41:08 Yeah 21:41:22 yes, it is 21:41:25 Most people just walk upon Brainfuck, write some stuff in it and walk away 21:41:46 my god 21:41:47 lolcode is still around 21:41:50 It takes some sort of madman to stay D: 21:42:02 [[It was one year ago today, May 27, 2007, when I opened the doors to lolcode.com. It's been a pretty amazing year since then. LOLCODE has evolved from a joke post on my blog just two days before to what's becoming a fairly standard “Hello World” for compiler writers, virtual machine creators, and API publishers]] 21:42:06 * tusho sheds a tear for LOLCODE ... 21:42:51 Isn't Lolcode pretty much C in kitten? 21:43:25 C by people who don't understand C. 21:43:27 Or programming. 21:43:35 Or kittens. 21:44:04 lolcode looks like it's going ridiculously strong, actually? 21:44:18 ais523: unfortunately. 21:44:34 it's not that bad really, just bland 21:45:17 Like most big projects in kitten 21:45:26 ais523: they have committies 21:45:28 and meetings 21:45:32 and democratic voting 21:45:34 and versioned standards 21:45:35 [[While this was not explicitly voted upon, it seemed to be taken for granted. It was the standard used for commenting in examples and has been adopted by nearly all developers in the developer meeting. Hopefully this will be standardized at the next developer meeting.]] 21:45:40 The Bible in kitty isn't very lulz either 21:46:33 Hmm. 21:46:38 idea for a project. 21:46:42 (ais523 will like this) 21:46:45 Esautotools. 21:46:51 Err, no 21:46:52 coreutils 21:46:54 Escoreutils. 21:47:01 The standard unix utilities, coded in a mindbendingly eso way. 21:47:02 o on. 21:47:06 Go on* 21:47:17 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:47:18 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:47:19 Slereah: Well, I just explained it. 21:47:24 Won't that go the same way as the esoOS? 21:47:44 -!- olsner has joined. 21:47:44 -!- AnMaster has joined. 21:47:50 tusho: a sort of EsoGNU? 21:48:03 ais523: Well yes, but GNU weren't the first to write coreutils. 21:48:07 Coreutils aren't that complex. 21:48:09 wc, ls, kill, etc 21:48:23 I am going to write true(1) first. It will break your brain. 21:48:27 tusho: I know they weren't 21:48:46 IIRC they were the first to try to rewrite them from scratch despite them all having already been written, though 21:48:46 Oh, and we will be using POSIX and C89. So no long options, they're too simple. 21:49:03 I am going to make true malloc(). 21:49:19 tusho: ah, you mean IOCCC-style writing rather than eso-style writing 21:49:26 ais523: no. 21:49:28 esoteric-style writing 21:49:37 as in, the program is written perfectly sanely 21:49:40 you should make it perform network accesses for a reason which is actually very important 21:49:40 but it operates insanely 21:49:48 not true(1), but cat can do that 21:49:59 cat(1) ftp's to a public ftp server, then downloads it 21:50:14 you can configure the server in /etc/catrc, ~/.catrc and -s 21:51:20 tusho: that's a security risk 21:51:28 it should use a TCP connection on loopback to catd 21:51:33 ais523: hahahaha yes 21:51:52 wow, the concept of catd is just mindblowing 21:52:09 Holy dick 21:52:14 Melab did a third language! 21:52:31 Or not 21:52:45 It's empty so far 21:53:14 He's a language machine! 21:53:22 maybe we should point them to #esoteric, it's spammy on the wiki but here it wouldn't reduce the signal/noice ratio appreciably 21:53:22 AHAHHAA 21:53:23 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Directory 21:53:27 he made a sitemap of his user space!! 21:53:32 without links to boot 21:53:45 that is the best thing ever 21:53:48 tusho: maybe you should point them to [[Special:Prefixindex/User:Melab]]? 21:54:08 ais523: I think the problem is more having that many articles 21:54:25 well, I'd rather he spams up his userspace than the rest of the wiki 21:57:16 ais523: hmm, is it destination or source first for functions? I always forget. 21:57:27 tusho: context? 21:58:02 -!- GregorR has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:59:00 -!- ais523 has quit ("Do I even have a default quit message on here?"). 21:59:02 -!- GregorR has joined. 22:00:15 huh, why did ais523 go? 22:00:17 :P 22:01:06 It's the rapture. 22:01:52 Heh. 22:02:12 There was so many projects thrown in today. 22:02:19 what do you mean? 22:02:53 I dunno. Compared to most days, there seem to have been a lot of projects created 22:03:04 Probably to be quickly abandoned, but such is the internet way. 22:03:06 -!- timotiis has joined. 22:06:27 it's funny how many times the source-code in database idea surfaces and disappears ... and it never has become very mainstream 22:06:35 olsner: because it sucks 22:06:46 Slereah: wow you fixed his page 22:06:49 burst of kindness? 22:06:56 Hm. 22:06:58 -h is for help. 22:07:02 What should I make 'loop forever'? 22:07:31 tusho : You know me. 22:07:35 Slereah: What? 22:07:36 I'm just that kind of guy. 22:07:44 oh. 22:07:49 care to answer my q? :P 22:07:52 (someone posted a blog post about that on reddit) 22:07:57 -!- olsner has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:07:59 -!- AnMaster has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:08:26 -!- olsner has joined. 22:08:26 -!- AnMaster has joined. 22:08:59 olsner: got an opinion? 22:09:30 Loop forever "LOOK AROUND YOU" 22:10:24 Slereah: It must be one character. 22:10:25 -C 22:10:29 where C iz a character 22:11:59 Heh. The 2006 eso contest is still on the frist page. 22:13:16 Slereah: http://rafb.net/p/u1vmQA55.html 22:13:26 This true(1) can exit with any status code, with a shortcut for 1 (false). 22:13:31 It can also loop forever. 22:13:39 It has an option to display help. 22:14:17 Fun thing about this is, I can actually read the code 22:14:25 But since I don't know shit of GNU or something else 22:14:31 I don't understand what it's for 22:15:19 Slereah: It's just a lunix command. 22:15:21 It's silly. 22:15:28 It's meant to just exit with code 0 ('success') 22:15:31 Mine can do SO MUCH MORE. 22:15:34 It's a parody of gnu's true. 22:15:43 Which has localization hooks, long options, etc. 22:15:46 It's silly. 22:15:49 Here is a full true(1): 22:15:53 int main(void) { return 0; } 22:15:58 GNU's is over 50 lines. 22:19:13 Slereah: Oh dear, esolangs.org is linked to on 4chan's /prog/. (There was a link to a thread there on some site, I clicked the thread list out of curiosity) 22:19:44 http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1211595052 They don't like dimensifuck, apparently. 22:21:26 Heh. 22:21:52 "You can lazy evaluate that all you want, it still doesn't make sense." 22:22:20 $ make sense 22:22:21 make: *** No rule to make target `sense'. Stop. 22:22:24 No rules to making sense. Deep. 22:22:30 8 sage in a row. 22:22:36 This thread might not last long. 22:24:40 make has been pleading for people to "Stop." for ages, still they keep trying their silly nonexistant targets 22:25:52 olsner: hah 22:26:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Quine 22:26:16 make: *** No rule to make target `Stop. Please. Will. You. Just'. Stop. 22:26:19 Someone need to have a talk witj Melab. 22:26:32 Slereah: I will. 22:26:57 Is Melab doing bad things? 22:27:05 He is a naughty boy. 22:27:16 Done. 22:27:22 ihope: Making an awful lot of pages in his userspace. 22:27:23 An awful lot. 22:27:24 Constantly. 22:27:29 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Melab#Plethora_of_user_pages Talk had. 22:27:31 With my super new account! 22:28:26 -!- timotiis_ has joined. 22:29:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:29:54 http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1212756254/3 22:29:55 Heh. 22:30:13 * ihope calculates a few trigonometric functions modulo various prime numbers 22:31:16 Modulo 2 is pretty easy. sin(0) = 0, sin(1) = 1, cos(0) = 1, cos(1) = 0. 22:32:27 *pi 22:32:59 I drive a car (actually I do not, because cars sucks) 22:32:59 car sucks, cdr r00ls!1!! 22:33:01 Heh. 22:36:50 Hmm. It looks like modulo 3, either sin(x) or cos(x) but not both will be 0. 22:36:59 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 22:36:59 Back. 22:37:50 wow 22:37:52 {{ 22:37:53 Therefore, there are no Rules and we have not really been playing a Game at 22:37:53 all since the inception of 4E70.}}- B nomic 22:38:00 sin(1) = 1? surely that is wrong? 22:38:14 Anything's possible in a Galois field! 22:38:22 :S 22:38:34 You know what happened to Galois? 22:38:38 He was SHOT 22:38:44 Slereah: And then turned into a HASKELL COMPANY 22:39:02 ... I have a song about Galois. 22:39:08 I'm a little ashamed. 22:39:16 Because I... I... 22:39:23 I bought the "Klein Four" CD. 22:39:31 Slereah: Marry me. 22:39:54 The path of love is never smooth / But mine's continuous for you 22:40:01 It's the best song 22:40:05 And you can get it for free 22:40:11 I don't advise buying the CD. 22:40:18 The other songs aren't that good. 22:40:40 "Mathematical paradise" is okay. And the ballad of Galois too. 22:40:45 Slereah: Well duh, it's the spirit! 22:40:53 I don't listen to the rest anymore. 22:40:58 ok 22:41:05 i need to find someone to work with 22:41:07 seriously. 22:41:13 Ask them 22:41:19 MEEEE 22:41:20 I'm not learning Javascript for you. 22:41:43 slereah, look at this: http://280slides.com/Editor/ 22:42:38 augur: gb2/web2.0/ 22:42:45 what? 22:42:50 gb2??? 22:43:12 Go back to. 22:43:29 Lurk moar! 22:43:32 i dont understand 22:43:53 That's what i'm trying to tell you. 22:48:08 How did Melab managed to misspell article names on his favorite page? 22:49:45 Mag'ckally 22:50:32 In an exciting twist, modulo 3, cos(0) = 2. 22:51:37 * Slereah shoots ihope 22:52:19 And this implies that sin(n) = 0 for all n here. 22:52:47 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:53:11 Oh, darn it, these sine and cosine formulas are actually inconsistent modulo 3. 22:56:55 Wait, did I divide both sides by sin(0) without knowing it wasn't 0 (and, in fact, knowing it was 0)? 22:58:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#What_happened_to_NPOV.3F 22:58:21 HAHAHAHAHA 22:58:25 "The formation and evolution of the Solar System is a theory which claims that the solar system began 4.6 billion years ago with the gravitational collapse of a small part of a giant molecular cloud." 22:59:23 Everyone knows that it's actually Zeus ejaculating on Jesus 22:59:27 Or something. 22:59:35 (I was sleeping in the library during bible class) 23:23:26 -!- augur has changed nick to psygnisfive_. 23:23:35 -!- psygnisfive_ has changed nick to psygnisfive. 23:38:02 -!- oerjan has joined.