00:09:14 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
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00:13:21 -!- tusho has changed nick to nottusho.
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00:18:18 -!- Slereah7 has changed nick to Slereah.
00:18:27 <tusho> let's spell 'hello world'
00:18:50 <Slereah> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
00:19:41 <oklopol> my o was the latter o of course
00:22:05 <Slereah> I wonder if most of the wiki people know of the chat
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00:22:25 <Slereah> The "communauty" button isn't usually the most clicked in a wiki
00:23:03 <oklopol> commuNAUGHTY is more like it
00:23:10 <Slereah> Hm. Apparently the second most viewed language article is AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
00:23:16 -!- corn has joined.
00:23:40 <tusho> the troll is here too.
00:23:46 <tusho> lament: can you dispose of corn
00:23:52 <tusho> he's been trolling in #wiktionary and #wikipedia
00:23:54 <oklopol> corn: are you into esolangs?
00:24:05 <tusho> he's said he will come into my house and murder me
00:24:08 <tusho> in bold underlined ALLCAPS
00:24:14 <tusho> stalked me across various channels
00:24:17 <tusho> it's not very amusing, just annoying
00:24:18 <corn> HAVE U GUYS EVER TRIED SHOVING AN EPIPEN IN UR PROSTATE?
00:26:00 <tusho> Slereah: got an ASCIIgoatse?
00:26:23 -!- Dave2 has joined.
00:26:30 <Slereah> But Freenode is strict on flood
00:26:46 <tusho> oklopol: that was ascii art directed at corn
00:27:04 <Slereah> http://pastebin.com/m4a0caa45
00:27:07 <corn> TUSHO IM GOING TO RAPE AND KILL YOU
00:27:11 <tusho> oklopol: dave2 is freenode staff, apparently
00:27:14 <tusho> I reported the issue to them.
00:27:27 <tusho> I don't think he'll click on anything.
00:27:31 <oklopol> what was the first one, Slereah?
00:27:38 <tusho> oklopol: A facepalm, I think.
00:28:01 <tusho> hello corn via notice
00:28:20 <Slereah> But trolls are immune to trolling.
00:29:10 <oklopol> corn: will you rape and kill me too?
00:29:25 <tusho> It's only nice that colours are disabled in here.
00:29:45 <Slereah> You can't rape the willing.
00:30:01 <oklopol> oh, right, i always forget that
00:31:34 <corn> OKLOPOL WHERE DO YOU LIVE
00:31:47 <tusho> Dave2: ha, get a load of this.
00:31:53 <augur> oklopol, lets work more on the language
00:32:31 <tusho> Yes, corn, I can verify that.
00:32:32 <Slereah> Well, I'm sure augur will appreciate the news.
00:32:36 <tusho> I'm sure Dave2 can too.
00:32:52 <augur> oklopol lets gayfuck
00:33:02 <tusho> Is it about augur and oklopol, corn?
00:33:06 <tusho> Because those are old by now.
00:33:09 <oklopol> augur: i prefer the language idea :)
00:33:14 <Slereah> YOU SAID YOU'D NEVER FORGET!
00:33:22 <tusho> Knock knock. Interrupting cow. Mooooo.
00:33:24 <augur> good, so do i, but then corn happened so
00:33:28 <Slereah> The 9/11 one is much more awesome.
00:34:08 -!- corn has quit (K-lined).
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00:34:51 <augur> swirlboy, do you like cock?
00:35:14 <tusho> SwirlBoy39: augur is very silly.
00:35:30 <Slereah> We don't have to fear trolls with regulars like augur
00:35:52 <augur> i'll scare them away with my supergay powers!
00:36:00 <tusho> SwirlBoy39: The topic of this channel is actually supposed to be esoteric programming languages.
00:36:03 <tusho> Like brainfuck or INTERCAL.
00:36:12 <augur> SWIRLY, IT'S VERY SIMPLE. DO YOU ENJOY INSERTING PENISES INTO YOUR MOUTH AND/OR RECTUM
00:36:14 <augur> ANSWER THE QUESTION
00:36:28 <tusho> Bad day to come in here, SwirlBoy39.
00:36:39 <tusho> SwirlBoy39: Augur. :P
00:36:52 <augur> so anyway, oklopol, to the pms, we have a language to design
00:36:59 -!- Dave2 has left (?).
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00:37:08 <tusho> I wanna see the thought processes
00:37:11 <tusho> and but in at every step
00:37:18 <tusho> coincidence? I think not.
00:37:25 <oklopol> okay, tusho, i'll fill you in on what's happened in priv
00:37:32 <tusho> oklopol: NO YOU WILL MOVE THE CONVERSATION TO #ESOTERIC
00:37:53 <augur> come to #reactance
00:39:10 <tusho> Newsflash: augur is bitchy.
00:39:33 <augur> dont disagree with me in my domain, bitch
00:39:37 <tusho> oklopol: no, he'll discuss whether the sex will be esoteric or not
00:39:48 <tusho> and kill if a disagreement arises
00:40:06 <Slereah> He should get laid all the time!
00:40:11 <augur> we're going to discuss it here
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00:40:46 <tusho> augur: hey, you accept i'm right after all. :P
00:41:13 <augur> dude oklopol and slereah have autorejoins XD
00:41:35 <oklopol> i'm on a channel with %roulette and %challenge
00:41:48 <augur> slereah you've been banned for unacceptable behavior.
00:42:01 <tusho> my irc network is going to have a BotBot :D
00:42:01 <augur> since i have no idea how to unban, consider it permanent.
00:42:05 <tusho> it lets you do evil stuff as a bot
00:42:07 <Slereah> augur has gone retarded with power!
00:42:24 <tusho> /msg BotBot auth FooBot
00:42:26 <oklopol> well there's the /op oklopol command for unbanning Slereah, but it'll ban you :|
00:42:27 <tusho> it lets FooBot do stuff with you
00:42:35 <tusho> if you do !roulette
00:42:45 <tusho> FooBot could send 'nick tusho tusho|DEAD' to BotBot
00:42:49 <tusho> and your nick would change
00:42:56 <augur> calling a function just set up the reaction with various dummy variables, yes?
00:43:20 <oklopol> well list of reactions rather
00:44:00 <augur> we need to formalize how you define a function tho
00:44:01 <oklopol> (while i'd love to talk, i need to be doing some going soon)
00:44:16 <augur> im not sure i like the foo = ( ..., ... ) model
00:44:29 <oklopol> now my way would be just to assign reaction lists, those (...) thingies, into vars.
00:44:40 <augur> i dont like that tho
00:44:55 <augur> because that confuses functions and first-class reactions
00:44:58 <augur> which functions are not.
00:45:23 <augur> if we want a REACTION to be stored in some variable
00:45:39 <augur> thats not the same as a function in foo
00:46:07 <augur> unless we dont want first class reactions
00:46:07 <oklopol> who me a situation where it's bad if it means the same thing
00:46:23 <oklopol> also who it a tome, a small one
00:46:48 <augur> well, i cant think of any practical example right now but
00:47:13 <augur> theres clearly a distinction between a reaction as a thing
00:47:25 <augur> and a function as a shorthand for setting up some reactions using dummy variables.
00:48:09 <augur> im tempted to just say
00:48:23 <augur> foo = do @ -> blah
00:48:34 <augur> or something like that.
00:49:06 <oklopol> well i hate keywords, but still i don't see why not ()
00:49:15 <augur> because ( ) is just grouping.
00:49:39 <augur> ofcourse we could distinguish betweeb
00:49:48 <augur> (a, b, c) which is just multiple values
00:49:58 <augur> (a b c) which is multiple statements
00:50:18 <augur> if you wanna do that ok. but there are potentials for ambiguity
00:50:58 <augur> (a, b, c -> d e, f, g -> h)
00:51:44 <augur> is it (a, b, c) -> d and (e, f, g) -> h together as function body?
00:51:58 <oklopol> ; or \n for separating reactions
00:52:04 <oklopol> that's been the convention since the beginning
00:52:27 <oklopol> and it has two -> on one line
00:52:32 <augur> so ( a \n b \n c )
00:52:32 <oklopol> i have no idea what that means
00:53:00 <augur> if we just allowed (a b c) to be three reactions, then (x -> y z -> w) would be two reactions in a function body
00:53:08 <oklopol> your point is before we've defined semantics for multiple ->'s on one line, they make no sense?
00:53:09 <augur> or maybe its something else
00:53:22 <augur> namely the funciton body ((x -> y) y) put into w
00:53:38 <oklopol> err okay, so you're saying if we changed the syntax into something that makes no sense, it'd make no sense?
00:53:52 <augur> no my point is that using (a, b, c) and (a b c) at the same time can lead to ambiguity
00:54:15 <oklopol> well why are you talking about (a b c) in the first place?
00:54:22 <augur> but if we require \n delimiters in function bodies then theres no ambiguity, yes.
00:54:55 <augur> corn is a grain native to the americas
00:55:04 <tusho> lament: inter-channel bot
00:55:04 <augur> commonly eaten boiled and coated with butter
00:55:05 <oklopol> tusho: i've used ;, augur's used \n, doesn't really matter at this point
00:55:12 <tusho> lament: er not bot
00:55:22 <tusho> basically, started accusing people in #wikipedia
00:55:27 <tusho> then /msg'd people threatening them
00:55:29 <tusho> then started stalking me
00:55:37 <lament> so it's all your fault
00:55:40 <oklopol> but yeah, i prefer ; too, because... it feels more scripty
00:55:56 <augur> ok so in your implementation itll be ;
00:55:58 <tusho> he just started joining all the channels i was in and saying he was going to rape then murder me.
00:56:02 <tusho> i didn't tell him to.
00:56:08 <Slereah> Well, corn is Mas in French :o
00:56:16 <augur> thats because you're french.
00:56:19 <augur> in mine i'll use \n, and maybe do...end
00:56:21 <Slereah> tusho : And you care... whyN
00:56:33 <tusho> Slereah: lament asked me.
00:56:48 <Slereah> If you like lament so much why don't you marry him!
00:58:31 <oklopol> Slereah: that made so much sense i gotta say touche on behalf on tusho
00:59:20 <oklopol> augur: didn't you just say the other day that you have no idea how to make an interp?
00:59:27 <Slereah> Well done, mister Bond, well done!
00:59:38 <augur> no i was talking about a non-recursively based interpreter for lisp.
01:00:19 <oklopol> don't anyone highlight tusho so he doesn't try to keep me here
01:00:34 <tusho> oklopol: if you go
01:00:38 <tusho> you know what I won't
01:00:40 <tusho> be able to show you?
01:00:45 <tusho> my awesome music game generator thing.
01:00:49 <tusho> that generates music based on how you play.
01:00:51 <tusho> it's really awesome
01:00:55 <tusho> i've been playing with it
01:00:58 <tusho> oklopol: and it's only 150 lines
01:01:00 <tusho> it's totally awesome
01:01:07 <augur> tusho: you have a running version?
01:01:07 <oklopol> well to be honest i don't trust that much in your musical skillzorz :D
01:01:13 <tusho> oklopol: but they're not mine
01:01:15 <tusho> they're the computers
01:01:40 <tusho> oklopol: its not really one algorithm
01:01:42 <oklopol> metacomposing is harder than normal composing.
01:01:50 <tusho> it has an initial state of beats and tones
01:01:53 <tusho> i.e. a simple loop
01:01:58 <oklopol> by definition, it's a whole another level
01:02:07 <tusho> and then it morphs certain 'tracks' (a beat track, a tone track, whatever) up or down and applies various effects
01:02:09 <tusho> based on data given to it
01:02:17 <tusho> specifically, shooting, moving, jumping etc data
01:02:23 <tusho> and it delays state changes so that it flows smoothly
01:02:27 <tusho> and doesn't totally mirror what you're doing
01:02:42 <Slereah> The constant should totally be 4.
01:02:45 <oklopol> tusho: i gotta say you almost got me
01:02:57 <tusho> oklopol: mine also has
01:03:00 <tusho> random noise techniquees
01:03:07 <oklopol> WELL TELL ME ALL ABOUT THEM PLEASE
01:03:26 <tusho> but it's no use if you're going
01:03:29 <tusho> since it'll take a bit to explain
01:03:57 <oklopol> you're being funny is what you are behind.
01:04:15 <tusho> it doesn't just use one initial track
01:04:20 <tusho> so multiple levels can use different tracks
01:04:53 <tusho> oklopol: its a bit gnarly, the algorithm
01:04:55 <tusho> but it produces great results
01:05:12 <oklopol> does it actually already produce music?
01:05:35 <tusho> oklopol: doesn't _play_ it but i've manually converted some stuff
01:05:37 <oklopol> if not, you tell me when it does :D
01:05:43 <tusho> it does almost everything else
01:05:48 <tusho> just not the actual send-to-soundcard
01:06:06 <tusho> oklopol: the files are big
01:06:29 <tusho> oklopol: no, an mp3
01:06:46 <tusho> but remember i converted it manually from the data it outputted (which was just the tones & beats info), but that's the easiest part
01:06:49 <tusho> oklopol: yes but they're biiiig
01:06:57 <tusho> because I played a lot around with it
01:07:00 <tusho> so I could hear all the effects
01:07:07 <oklopol> if it outputs tones & beats info, pastebin.
01:07:19 <tusho> oklopol: they're not readable. at all
01:07:21 <tusho> just lists of numbers
01:07:37 <oklopol> numbers representing what?
01:07:45 <tusho> oklopol: what sample to play
01:08:23 <oklopol> so basically you have nothing that can be listened to, or read as notes?
01:08:35 <oklopol> you've got nothing, as they say
01:08:36 <tusho> oklopol: i have an mp3 that you can listen to
01:08:42 <tusho> because i played around with it to get a lot of data
01:08:57 <tusho> you COULD have a list of seemingly-random numbers dictating what samples to play but a load of numbers isn't very useufl
01:08:58 <tusho> oklopol: like 30mb
01:09:13 <tusho> i'm not uploading a file that big at 1am
01:09:33 <tusho> oklopol: then you'd only get a portion of the effects
01:09:36 <tusho> it's a long-scale kind of thing
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01:10:37 <tusho> oklopol: what happened there
01:11:28 <oklopol> lm: 03:09… tusho: it builds up
01:11:37 <tusho> that was my latest msg
01:12:23 <Slereah> It seems that 4 is unsuitable for XKCD
01:13:17 <Slereah> Inverse ackermann doesn't work on it, A(4,4) is fucklong, McCarthy is always 91 and Look and say (4,4) is 132114
01:13:36 <Slereah> It would take way too much space to do 0
01:14:24 <tusho> Slereah: McCarthy is always 91. ZOMG :P
01:14:45 <Slereah> It's 91 if it's under 101.
01:15:03 <tusho> m91 n | n < 101 = 91; | otherwise = n-10
01:15:31 <Slereah> I use (define (M n) (if (> n 100) (- n 10) (M (M (+ n 11)))))
01:15:51 <tusho> Slereah: It's not a definition, no :P
01:15:59 <tusho> I'm just saying that m91 is only interessting for its implementation details.
01:16:19 <Slereah> Well, it's not like I wanted interesting functions!
01:16:59 <Slereah> So... Random (=3), Ackermann, inverse, McCarthy and Look and Say.
01:17:18 <tusho> Slereah: How is that ... a good language?
01:18:55 <Slereah> I just want to see if it would work
01:19:21 <Slereah> My idea was something around "You need to make A... But can you make with A!"
01:20:08 <augur> i love open courseware :(
01:21:10 <Slereah> Does open courseware not love you back?
01:21:38 <augur> the frown because i cant get enough and it hurts.
01:21:52 <augur> open source ware is MITs open access to their courses
01:22:09 <augur> including course materials, and audio/video of the courses
01:22:15 <Slereah> Are there awesome courses?
01:22:25 <augur> depends on what you mean by awesome :)
01:22:49 <augur> http://ocw.mit.edu/
01:23:56 <Slereah> I could use some programming courses.
01:24:07 <augur> i dont know if they have programming stuff
01:24:12 <augur> but they have some CS stuff
01:24:23 <augur> oh? which courses?
01:24:32 <Slereah> Well, SICP, for one, I suppose.
01:24:57 <augur> thats not programming as such, but yeah, definitely watch it
01:25:12 <augur> watch the abelson and sussman videos from 1986
01:25:18 <augur> they're really good
01:25:21 <augur> im rewatching them
01:25:45 <Slereah> I get my exam results tomorrow
01:25:50 <Slereah> and there's the raid saturday.
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01:29:51 <tusho> Slereah: Leave scientology to augur!
01:31:07 <augur> i agree with lament.
01:31:45 <Slereah> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/b/bf/Lolwutpear.jpg
01:32:27 <augur> or if you're spanish
01:32:28 <augur> http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q300/xx2punk/lolque.jpg
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01:49:33 <Slereah> Who did the look-and-say Scheme function again?
02:02:29 <Slereah> I was wondering how it worked
02:02:41 <Slereah> But apparently, you just need to feed it a list
02:02:58 <Slereah> So I'm trying to do some list->number
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03:15:54 <Slereah> > (list->number (list 1 2 3 4) 0)
03:16:00 <Slereah> I think I'm doing it wrong
03:17:48 <Slereah> > (list->number (list 1 2 3 4 5) 0)
03:20:39 <oklofok> umm what are you trying to do?
03:20:49 <oklofok> i promise not to make it in a minute and paste it
03:21:02 <Slereah> (define (list->number x n) (if (null? (cdr x)) (*(power 10 n) (car x)) (+ (* (last x) (power 10 n)) (list->number (cdr (reverse x)) (+ 1 n)))))
03:21:15 <Slereah> So far, it works, but in a bad order
03:22:01 <oklofok> not how i would do it, but i'll read
03:22:22 <oklofok> and it's not an accumulator
03:22:23 <Slereah> last is (define (last x) (car (reverse x)))
03:23:28 <Slereah> 'cause now, I have no idea
03:23:43 <oklofok> you reverse it, pop the first
03:24:18 <oklofok> results in (1 2 3 4 5 6) -> (5 4 3 2 1) -> (2 3 4 5)
03:24:41 <Slereah> I forgot to reverse it back
03:24:46 <oklofok> (which you really should've seen from the result :P)
03:25:21 <Slereah> > (list->number (list 1 2 3 4) 0)
03:25:37 <Slereah> Worst part is, I actually thought about the reversing back at one point
03:26:07 <oklofok> plus all that allocating you're doing
03:26:14 <Slereah> Is there an existing operator for the last element of a list, and its beginning?
03:26:56 <oklofok> a "list" is usually just a pair (a . b) where b is a list, and a is an element of the list
03:27:08 <oklofok> so, it's clear for "last" you need to traverse through it.
03:27:09 <augur> goodness what are you kids doing
03:27:44 <oklofok> lambda l:int("".join(map(str,l)))
03:28:00 <augur> no, give me a case analysis. :P
03:28:21 <augur> some list like ... becomes some number like ...
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03:29:07 <augur> that makes no sense slereah. :P
03:29:14 <oklofok> augur: i showed you the python code
03:29:22 <augur> i dont know python
03:29:30 <oklofok> how can someone not know python!
03:29:41 <oklofok> just look at it, isn't it soooooo clear
03:29:56 <augur> its hideous and completely incomprehensible.
03:30:28 <augur> oklofok, tell me what it does. tell me now.
03:30:29 <Slereah> Why did you feed it lists, oklo!
03:30:39 <oklofok> because it makes no sense to feed it numbers
03:31:11 <augur> oh my god what are you fucking trying to do!?
03:31:31 <augur> tell me what you're trying to do! >_<
03:32:52 <oklofok> augur: it worked already, Slereah just messed it up
03:33:03 <augur> i presume you're representing numbers as lists of digits?
03:33:29 <Slereah> Well, I can do it as feeding it list -> getting a number out
03:33:40 <oklofok> just make the "group" function, and it's trivial
03:33:56 <Slereah> But feeding number -> number, I'll have to look at your part of the code
03:34:01 <oklofok> for some reason doesn't seem to exist in any language as a standard function even thought it's needed every day :|
03:34:03 <Slereah> Otherwise, I get type errors
03:34:15 <Slereah> oklofok : Is it ever needed?
03:34:29 <oklofok> Slereah: well for look-and-say for instance
03:34:39 <oklofok> but i recently needed it for something else
03:34:43 <Slereah> http://pastebin.com/m5350c175
03:35:04 <oklofok> (define (power a b) (if (= b 0) 1 (* a (power a (- b 1))))) this can be done logarithmically
03:35:37 <Slereah> also, is there already a power function?
03:35:43 <Slereah> I tried every notation I could think off
03:36:22 <oklofok> makes no sense to do it like that
03:36:45 <oklofok> also what doesn't work @ that code
03:37:19 <Slereah> Well, since it has a mix of numbers and lists, I get type errors if I try doing all numbers.
03:37:48 <Slereah> I tried replacing (next- a) by (next- (number-> list a)), but I gget errors in some other function
03:40:32 <oklofok> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p152425552.txt
03:41:00 <augur> this is a problem for mapreduce XD
03:41:32 <oklofok> Slereah: just fyi, in functional programming, you don't usually change functions
03:41:38 <oklofok> you build new ones on top of the old ones
03:41:46 <Slereah> . cdr: expects argument of type <pair>; given 1234
03:41:59 <oklofok> especially when the functions are written by me, and you're breaking them with noobiness :P
03:42:36 <oklofok> seems it doesn't work, didn't actually try
03:43:28 <oklofok> number->list doesn't work?
03:43:46 <Slereah> But I like the idea of number next
03:47:10 <Slereah> I removed the list->number
03:48:38 <Slereah> My function was totally awesome all along!
03:48:52 <oklofok> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p335464534.txt
03:49:20 <oklofok> lol, i was thinking in oklotalk once again :D
03:49:42 <oklofok> i had an inner lambda in the function, and did recursion, of course recursed the function, not the lambda
03:50:06 <oklofok> btw, was basically the same error you had
03:50:56 <oklofok> i had the exact same error as you, but for entirely different reasons
03:51:13 <oklofok> not entirely, but the reason were different
03:51:27 <Slereah> 132113213221133112132113311211131221121321131211132221123113112221131112311332111213211322211312113211
03:52:24 <Slereah> What if I tried L(A(g_64,g_64),A(g_64,g_64))?
03:52:37 <oklofok> damn, my amazon wishlist is 508 dollars
03:53:02 <oklofok> Slereah: i suggest you try
03:54:28 <Slereah> So successor would be A(a(a(RANDOM)),n)
03:54:43 <Slereah> Remember what the look and say was for?
03:55:28 <Slereah> Well, something, but for lulz
03:55:54 <Slereah> The language with the ackermann, inverse ackermann, look and say, McCarthy function, and 3.
03:56:26 <oklofok> yes the Language That is So Cool
03:57:39 <Slereah> I get the feeling that many output will be 91, for some reason!
03:59:59 <augur> erg.. i cant think about this in lisp. x.x
04:01:08 <oklofok> you have two cases, cadr == car, and cadr != car
04:01:25 <augur> i know, shut up :P
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04:10:38 <augur> so i have the right grouping but i messed up on one part
04:12:01 <Slereah> It's a pretty horrible function to do functionally.
04:12:48 <Slereah> You could slap one together imperatively in five minutes.
04:13:08 <augur> but im trying to do it functionally in lisp so.. :P
04:13:27 <augur> if i used assq and set! this would be different.
04:13:29 <augur> it would be easier.
04:13:33 <augur> but im not doing it that way
04:13:42 <augur> ok so ive got grouping down
04:16:31 <Slereah> (define (s n) (A (a (a RANDOM)) n))
04:21:19 <Slereah> (define (fff n) (display (L n 1)) (newline) (fff (L n 1)))
04:21:27 <Slereah> O noes, I has a halting problem!
04:23:44 <augur> mine has nasty time complexity tho :(
04:25:08 <augur> wanna see the nastiness that is my version? :p
04:25:31 <augur> i can make the complexity better actually
04:25:44 <augur> let me do that actually
04:33:56 <augur> http://pastebin.com/d64f22c7a
04:34:26 <augur> collect should really be named flatten but
04:37:32 <augur> just do (see-n-say '(1 1 1 2 2 3 3 3 3)) and you'll get back (3 1 2 2 4 3)
04:38:20 <augur> i wonder how many quines see-n-say hays
04:38:30 <augur> i think it only has one, '(2 2)
04:43:06 <oklofok> god i hate it when pages let you leave comments
04:43:19 <oklofok> mostly because i cannot stop reading them
04:43:49 <oklofok> Slereah: it's not horrible to do functionally
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04:47:04 <oklopol> god i hate it when pages let you leave comments
04:47:06 <oklopol> mostly because i cannot stop reading them
04:47:08 <oklopol> Slereah: it's not horrible to do functionally
04:47:10 <oklopol> it is a bit complicated to do without good pattern matching facilities, granted
04:47:12 <oklopol> not sure where i discoed this time
04:50:30 <oklopol> the functional way for group is simply that if the cadr is different than the car, then just return (car,1):(recursion on cdr), and if it's the same, take what the recursion returns, and add one to the first element's cadr
04:51:11 <oklopol> in case you'r doing (group '(1 1 1 2 2 3 3 3)) -> '((1 3) '(2 2) '(3 3))
04:51:26 <oklopol> of course leave out that latter "'"'s
04:51:46 <augur> no i'm grouping '(1 1 1 2 2 3 3 3 3) -> '((1 1 1) (2 2) (3 3 3 3))
04:52:08 <oklopol> takes more space, but even easier
04:52:31 <oklopol> *the functional way for group is simply that if the cadr is different than the car, then just return (list car):(recursion on cdr), and if it's the same, take what the recursion returns, and add one to the first element and cons car to it
04:53:05 <oklopol> **the functional way for group is simply that if the cadr is different than the car, then just return (list car):(recursion on cdr), and if it's the same, take what the recursion returns, take its first element and cons car to it
04:53:37 <oklopol> it's simple to do functionally, the only problem is you need to splice and dice what you get from the recursion
04:53:52 <oklopol> which isn't pretty without pattern matching, which scheme doesn't have
04:54:12 <augur> oklopol, did you look at my version?
04:54:21 <augur> http://pastebin.com/d64f22c7a
04:57:54 <augur> what do you mean hmm? :P
04:58:11 <oklopol> that's almost look-and-say
04:58:41 <oklopol> you need to do (concat-map num-split (collect (count-kind (group nums))))
04:58:46 <augur> i've even got a game version that will continuously loop and show you the see-n-says
04:58:59 <oklopol> where numsplit is 34 -> '(3 4), 7 -> '(7), 257 -> '(2 5 7) etc
04:59:17 <oklopol> (and it's called look-and-say usually, but that's not important)
04:59:17 <augur> im not doing num split, thats silly
04:59:24 <augur> see-n-say sounds better
04:59:30 <augur> alliteration is good.
04:59:31 <oklopol> well if you don't split, it's not the same thing
05:00:10 <oklopol> but yeah, you usually don't do big numbererrs
05:01:11 <oklopol> i guess it's a prettier sequence without the split tho
05:01:47 <oklopol> it's just it doesn't get beyond 3 from a simple initial sequence, so makes no difference
05:02:17 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
05:03:48 <oklopol> look-and-say in oklotalk is {concat grp _}, if i'm not mistaken
05:04:51 <oklopol> well prolly {cct(rev\grp _}, i'm not sure about the exact definitions, because i don't have them on this machine
05:05:40 <oklopol> one more fix, important to get this right, you see, {cct(Rev\grp _}
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05:10:51 <augur> interesting property: if you start with a number other than 1, then the sequence will always end in (1 n)
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05:11:41 <augur> infact, if you start with any one number other than 1, everything but the last number will be the same
05:12:35 <oklofok> 5 -> 1 5 -> 1 1 1 5 -> 3 1 1 5
05:12:55 <augur> 3 -> 1 3 -> 1 1 1 3 -> 3 1 1 3
05:12:58 <augur> the pattern is just
05:12:58 <oklofok> 3 1 1 5 <<< everything but last number aren't the same
05:13:06 <augur> n -> 1 n -> 1 1 1 n -> 3 1 1 n -> ...
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05:14:34 <augur> for any (see-n-say '(a b)) thats equivalent to (flatten (see-n-say '(a) '(b)))
05:14:55 <augur> for any tuple with non-same adjacent members.
05:16:38 <augur> for any tuple of the same adjacent members
05:16:58 <augur> that reduces to a 2-tuple, the first being just the count and the member
05:17:11 <augur> which behaves like one-tuples again.
05:17:19 <augur> so see-n-say is competely and utterly boring. :)
05:17:37 <augur> except in those cases where the count == the member
05:18:06 <augur> or where the count == the previous member
05:18:59 <oklofok> err that reduces it's boringness quite a bit
05:19:23 <oklofok> but it *is* boring, i'm just saying *that* doesn't prove it
05:19:41 <augur> well this was a fun exercise in writing functional programs
05:23:51 <augur> oklofok: i'm allowing do...end notation for functions in my implementation of Reactance
05:24:03 <augur> just so you know. :P
05:28:38 <oklofok> well oklofok -> sleep usually in english
05:29:17 <oklofok> sleep doesn't go to oklofok
05:29:20 <augur> sure if you want :P
05:29:38 <augur> but the value of sleep is not the value of oklofok
05:29:41 <augur> if anything, it'd be the reverse
05:30:20 <augur> time == time_to_sleep: sleeping -> oklofok.state
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08:24:15 <revcompgeek> cool, my interpreter for BRZRK is starting to work
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14:49:16 <oklofok> but usually ppl don't do separate lines for just )'s
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15:43:09 <tusho> the mathematician is here!
15:43:20 <tusho> -- OERJAN EVACUATION PROCEDURE ACTIVATED --
15:43:54 * oerjan throws a 17-dimensional vector after tusho
15:44:38 <tusho> It's like a hyper-space dimensional warp pass! I'm going faster than LIGHT!!
15:44:46 <tusho> Everything is BENDING!! He's got me guys go on without me!
15:45:20 * oerjan diminishes the Riemannian curvature a bit for comfort
15:46:01 <tusho> oerjan: I feel like I just morphed into this vector.
15:46:07 * tusho swishes around it a bit
15:46:51 * tusho transforms into the Russell's paradox set
15:47:01 * oerjan hands tusho a helpful rotation matrix
15:47:10 <tusho> oerjan: I think we need a better set theory over here..
15:47:20 * tusho searches emself for emself
15:48:20 * oerjan digs up Quine's New Foundation theory
15:49:03 <tusho> HE'LL CAPTURE YOU!
15:49:13 <tusho> wait a second ... oerjan just made me impossible
15:49:19 * tusho promptly disappears. In a puff of logic.
15:49:35 <tusho> oerjan: little do you know!
15:49:42 <tusho> since I am a paradox, I can do ANYTHING! Mwahahaha!
15:49:45 * tusho comes back as a turkey
15:49:51 * oerjan finds a universal net to snare pikhq with
15:50:11 * pikhq uses a universal constructor to fight it
15:50:44 * tusho spends 3 hours powering up a lambda calculus reducer
15:51:14 * tusho turns into a parrot and starts reducing (\x.xx)(\x.xx)
15:51:30 <oerjan> your puny constructive automaton cannot match the power of the Axiom of Choice!
15:51:59 <oerjan> that was for pikhq btw
15:52:14 <oerjan> actually it goes for LC too
15:52:56 <tusho> oerjan: i know who it was for
15:53:01 <tusho> I was just remarking that I was done for too
15:54:53 <tusho> oerjan: what happened.
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15:55:19 <oerjan> darn i switched to New Foundation and forgot that it doesn't have AC. AIEEE!
15:55:52 * tusho throws the constantly-reducing expression at oerjan
15:56:16 <tusho> A homing boomerang.
15:56:37 * tusho locks it on to oerjan
15:56:54 * oerjan puts NF back in the sack.
15:57:06 * tusho turns into R again
15:57:32 <tusho> oerjan: no, the Russell's paradox set
15:57:53 * tusho searches for emself in emself to break oerjan's brain
15:58:05 <pikhq> oerjan: But at least my constructive automaton ends all scarcity!
15:58:06 <oerjan> you cannot break what is already broken
15:58:11 <pikhq> Viva la revolucion!
15:58:30 * tusho wonders what to do now.
15:58:50 * tusho picks a random set theory from wikipedia
15:58:59 <oerjan> no, c is right for spanish
15:59:02 * tusho takes out Kripke-Platek set theory and turns into a dog
15:59:56 * tusho pushes oerjan, after thinking of nothing more creative
15:59:58 <oerjan> unless you also want s/a/e/ to make it french
16:00:49 * tusho pushes himself to the stack; infinite times.
16:00:52 <tusho> The call stack, of course.
16:02:17 <tusho> oerjan: did the universe just disappear
16:02:19 <tusho> terrible error handling
16:02:23 <tusho> I was expecting something lisp-based
16:02:48 <tusho> oerjan: nope to what?
16:03:04 <tusho> what's happening then?
16:03:27 <oerjan> since a few billion years
16:03:36 <tusho> ... which sense of 'bang', exactly? The terry pratchett sense?
16:03:56 * oerjan hasn't read that book he thinks
16:04:31 <tusho> oerjan: It's just The Colour of Magic
16:04:50 <oerjan> in that case i've probably forgotten it
16:09:08 <oerjan> babies? here? i distinctly recall a 13-year age limit...
16:09:36 <tusho> Slereah_: actually, oklopol said that
16:10:49 <oerjan> oklopol said _who_ was 12?
16:11:58 * oerjan guesses it must be ehird's little brother (or maybe sister), then.
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16:12:28 <tusho> oerjan: yes, i got it
16:12:34 <tusho> i was just clearing up any confusion for logreaders
16:15:13 <oerjan> does "tusho" mean something? it seems to be japanese.
16:15:37 <tusho> it was formed via 'type some characters that are pronouncable, check if it has any relevant google results'
16:15:54 <tusho> but it does sound slightly japanese now that you mention it
16:16:09 <oerjan> and it _does_ appear in some japanese company names
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16:17:15 <tusho> oerjan: I noticed that when I googled, but I dismissed it because when is that going to overlap?
16:17:32 <tusho> I doubt it actually means anything, though.
16:17:41 <Slereah_> I think I have an idea for my mulambda thingy
16:17:48 <oerjan> hm is that livejournal entry yours?
16:18:01 <tusho> oerjan: I believe so, I think I joined it a while back in case I ever needed it
16:18:01 <Slereah_> To make it more eso-friendly, unlambda style.
16:18:17 <tusho> best to get it before anyone else does, right?
16:18:52 <tusho> 20:08:24 <augur> well, now we know how to separate the men from the boys
16:18:52 <tusho> 20:08:47 <lament> by... cuming on their faces?
16:18:52 <tusho> 20:38:17 <augur> well i didnt cum on CALAMARI's face
16:18:59 <tusho> i'm not sure I like the google results for 'tusho'
16:19:14 <tusho> oerjan: ah, I remember joining that. cave story fan club
16:19:22 <tusho> (cave story = indie game released in 2004)
16:19:50 <tusho> i think it was a case of "huh. profile's a bit bare. oh well, i'll add this."
16:20:00 <tusho> and then "now to promptly forget about it"
16:20:45 <Slereah_> Instead of function definition, I'll use for instance for f(x, y,z,...,0) = g(x,y,z,...), f(x,y,z,...,s(m)) = h(x,y,z,...,m,f(x,y,z,...,m)) -> rec (g, h, m, x, y, z, ...)
16:20:45 <Slereah_> That way, all can hold in a line
16:21:04 <oerjan> there is Nippo Tusho and Toyota Tusho, hm...
16:21:15 <tusho> Maybe it's a place in japan?
16:21:15 <Slereah_> So addition would be rec(pi(3,3), comp(s, pi(3,3)), m, n)
16:21:40 <oerjan> it's a place in Ethiopia at least
16:22:30 <oerjan> hm the Toyota one is a misspelling on a link
16:23:01 <oerjan> or wait ... it T always TS before u in japanese?
16:23:14 <tusho> 'tusho' makes google typo into 'tsusho'
16:23:22 <tusho> which I presume actually means something, but I fail to care
16:23:33 <tusho> tusho.org is available among other stuff so that's good enough for me
16:29:11 <pikhq> oerjan It most certainly is.
16:29:55 <tusho> pikhq: You know japanese - what is tsusho?
16:30:04 <tusho> I am guessing that Nippo Tusho and Toyota Tusho are typos for tsusho.
16:30:12 <pikhq> I just know it sure as fuck isn't tusho.
16:30:31 <Slereah_> Isn't japanese supposed to be (C)V(n)?
16:31:09 <oerjan> do the japanese characters at the top of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Tsusho help?
16:31:15 <Slereah_> A syllable = possible consonant, vowel, possible nasal consonant
16:31:34 <pikhq> That's a mora, actually. . .
16:31:38 <Slereah_> San would work, but not prick (kekeke)
16:31:50 <pikhq> And a mora does not necessarily have a vowel.
16:32:14 <pikhq> Japanese divides things into mora, not syllables.
16:32:40 <pikhq> Lemme find the Wikipedia page.
16:32:49 <pikhq> I get the feeling I'm saying the wrong word.
16:32:59 <pikhq> No, that's the right word.
16:33:02 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mora_(linguistics)
16:33:34 <oerjan> putting that into babelfish gives "Toyota commerce"
16:34:12 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology#Moras_and_phonotactics
16:34:56 <Slereah_> So... where does tsu fit in that system?
16:35:04 <pikhq> Tsu is a single mora.
16:36:36 <pikhq> Also, in some dialects, that's pronounced /t/. . .
16:36:50 <Slereah_> Well, a cluster isn't a single consonant.
16:37:02 <pikhq> Fine; it's CCV. :p
16:37:19 <pikhq> And the only case thereof in Japanese.
16:37:36 <oerjan> japanese has doubled consonants too doesn't it?
16:37:41 <tusho> pikhq: I assume 'tsusho' is pretty darn rare, right?
16:37:46 <tusho> And therefore the typo 'tusho' even more rare.
16:37:59 <tusho> I guess it'll only be a problem if I move to Japan? :P
16:38:15 <pikhq> oerjan: That's just an artifact of Romanisation.
16:38:18 <Slereah_> I'm not sure seppuku is a cluster
16:38:27 <oerjan> my guess is tsusho means "commerce"
16:38:37 <pikhq> In Japanese, that's written 'sextupuku'.
16:38:41 <oerjan> i cannot find a definitive entry on it
16:39:00 <oerjan> pikhq: i don't believe you
16:39:03 <pikhq> How to put that in IPA is much debated.
16:39:19 <tusho> Slereah_: So what am I? rpae?
16:40:10 <Slereah_> Mulambda seems really horrible to write :o
16:40:19 <Slereah_> I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not
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16:42:06 <pikhq> That seems to be stuck in IPA as [sep:ɯkɯ]
16:43:33 <oerjan> pikhq: erm that 'sextupuku' above was it a misspelling, a joke, or an actual transliteration?
16:43:48 <pikhq> oerjan: Valid transliteration.
16:43:58 <pikhq> The 'xtu' represents a little 'tsu'.
16:44:09 <tusho> Sextupuku sounds like a bizzare japanese sexual ritual
16:44:22 <pikhq> Which is how the 'consonant doubling' is written in kana.
16:45:14 <Slereah_> "'bizzare japanese sexual ritual" is redundant.
16:45:38 <pikhq> I think just the part "Japanese ritual" is needed. :p
16:45:50 <pikhq> Or even "Bizzare Japanese ritual".
16:46:02 <oerjan> is every single word actually redundant there? :D
16:46:13 <tusho> pikhq: There are non-bizzare japanese rituals?
16:46:24 <Slereah_> But "japanese sexual ritual" doesn't need bizarre.
16:46:57 <tusho> ... The Japanese do things other than rituals?
16:47:02 <tusho> I think we just need "Japanese".
16:47:07 <tusho> "Sextupuku sounds Japanese."
16:47:08 <Slereah_> I'm pretty sure that all sexual ritual are bizarre
16:47:22 <oerjan> but if you have the other words, isn't Japanese an obvious conclusion too?
16:47:24 <pikhq> They also make porn of your mom.
16:47:30 <oerjan> so _every_ single word is redundant
16:47:58 <tusho> Solution: Swedish chef makes Japan's new language.
16:48:02 <tusho> Borku borku borku.
16:49:52 <pikhq> I'd like to complement you on creating sudo-Japanese which can't be written in Japanese script.
16:50:22 <pikhq> "Bor" can't be written, nor can "Di", "egg", or "du".
16:50:59 <Slereah_> Actually, it was a quote from the Swedish chef.
16:51:31 <Slereah_> When he was trying to make some eggs. But his chicken only made ping pong balls :o
16:52:32 <tusho> pikhq: So how would you translit. 'Bork' into japanese?
16:53:31 <tusho> pikhq: That is so stereotypical I love it.
16:53:38 <pikhq> Which would make Swedish chef references unintentional puns.
16:53:58 <pikhq> ("Boku" is a fairly informal way of saying "I")
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16:59:58 <ais523> Slereah_: an evil and mildly upset smiley? what's that for?
17:00:44 <ais523> I wasn't here yesterday because I was DMing a roleplaying scenario for 10 hours
17:00:58 <ais523> D&D, the Tomb of Horrors
17:01:23 <Slereah_> Apart from the planescape part.
17:01:28 <ais523> normally we don't play anything nearly so lethal, but we were investigating what happened if you put munchkins in a famously-lethal scenario
17:01:34 <ais523> apparently the munchkins win, at least so far
17:02:14 <Slereah_> Maybe you should try some sort of Paranoia meets Call of Cthulhu.
17:02:57 <oerjan> ooh, the Tomb of Horrors. i have merely _heard_ of its evil.
17:03:40 <tusho> hmm, I'm not in #ESO
17:03:40 <ais523> oerjan: it's pretty bad, it would have killed the characters several times over if they hadn't thought of hiding inside the walls and manipulating everything with telekinesis
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17:14:40 <Slereah_> Well, I'm going to the university, to check the exam results.
17:14:57 <ais523> Slereah_: mine aren't out for a week or so yet
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17:37:39 <tusho> ihope is on Agora but not #ircnomic. Hmm.
17:54:33 <tusho> ais523: The words 'the game'. :P
17:55:01 * ais523 is still reading through Agora backlog
17:58:47 <Slereah> Well, not in English apparently
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17:59:02 <Slereah> I can just sit on my ass in my underwear.
18:08:59 <Slereah> http://pastebin.com/f6c9420ce
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18:10:07 <Slereah> http://pastebin.com/f7a13fa58
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18:17:59 <tusho> oh god php is so awful
18:18:17 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:18:47 <ais523> sorry, connetion problems
18:19:29 <tusho> you only missed one thing
18:19:35 <tusho> and that was me commenting on just how awful php is
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18:24:12 <tusho> ais523: you'll like this, I think:
18:24:18 <tusho> cocoa's date parser will parse "a week ago at dinner time"
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18:35:23 <oerjan> what about "four score and seven years ago"?
18:35:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
18:35:55 <Slereah_> Well, my grandmother wasn't born.
18:36:25 <Slereah_> What about "Dinner time. IN HELL"
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18:56:10 <revcompgeek> my interpreter for BRZRK is starting to work!
19:02:36 <revcompgeek> just a few more bugs to fix and i can post it
19:02:49 <revcompgeek> i will only be able to post a PPC mac binary though
19:03:44 <ais523> I have a D compiler here
19:03:53 <ais523> quite a few people here will do
19:06:16 <ais523> revcompgeek: Funge-98 interp
19:06:44 <ais523> Deewiant wrote it IIRC
19:07:00 <tusho> nobody mention A-n-M-a-s-t-e-r's name
19:07:04 <tusho> he'll start advertising cfunge
19:07:27 <ais523> tusho: what's wrong with that?
19:10:01 <revcompgeek> i've been meaning to install a compiler on my PC anyway
19:10:40 <pikhq> ais523: Actually, *I* have a D compiler because of Plof.
19:11:02 <pikhq> Plof comes from Gregor. Gregor is a D diety. Obviously, Plof is written in D. ;)
19:13:30 <tusho> AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
19:17:15 <ais523> AnMaster: tusho was trying to get everyone to not nickping you for some reason
19:17:24 <ais523> and Slereah_ did just to annoy them, I think
19:17:26 <AnMaster> I'm trying to bind * on both ipv4 and ipv6 atm and failing so I'm irritated, was the highlight there for some reason!?
19:17:42 <ais523> AnMaster: tusho = ehird
19:18:06 <tusho> thank god he didn't mention cfu - oops
19:19:07 <AnMaster> tusho, no this is for crossfire, the open source MMORPG
19:19:29 <AnMaster> and well cfunge is almost complete, apart from SOCK fingerprint and replacing with a better hash library
19:20:00 <ais523> hmm... is there a functional fingerprint for Befunge?
19:20:08 <ais523> if there were, then maybe TRDS could be used to write Feather
19:20:19 <tusho> ais523: you can still write it
19:20:24 <tusho> just write it as if interpreting in an imperative languge
19:20:31 <tusho> ais523: TRDS reverses IO, though, so beware
19:20:32 <ais523> I understand how it works
19:20:34 <tusho> (console IO, at least)
19:20:44 <ais523> tusho: reversing IO's almost exactly what I want
19:20:47 <ais523> reversing output, at least
19:20:58 <tusho> ais523: it redoes stdin requests, I believe
19:21:05 <ais523> I'm not sure whether reversing input would be good
19:21:12 <ais523> and redoing it would be Very Bad
19:21:28 <tusho> ais523: TRDS = call/cc that also keeps the global heap
19:21:29 <ais523> reversing it but rereading the same stream would be alright, though
19:21:38 <ais523> tusho: yes, that's the operation I want in Feather, really
19:21:47 <tusho> ais523: but without redoing input.
19:21:48 <ais523> but I was planning to do it by using call/cc and not using the heap at all
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19:26:59 <tusho> ais523: you shouldn't have mentioned your win by paradox
19:27:03 <tusho> people will object now
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19:27:38 <pikhq> oerjan: Congrats on having an Erdos number of 4.
19:28:07 * pikhq needs to cowrite with Oerjan. :p
19:28:23 <ais523> it was obviously coming
19:28:26 <tusho> 4? Bah, how puny. :-P
19:28:39 <pikhq> Actually, if PEBBLE counts as some sort of research collaboration, then I have an Erdos number of 5.
19:28:58 <tusho> AnMaster: I love pissing you off by continually mentioning TRDS, did I mention you should do TRDS?
19:29:11 <tusho> pikhq: What's your Erdős–Bacon number? :P
19:29:19 <AnMaster> tusho, and it doesn't piss me off
19:29:27 <AnMaster> it just makes me pitty you for your ignorance
19:29:29 <augur_> i have an erdos number of 2 :O
19:29:31 <pikhq> Probably undefined.
19:29:39 <tusho> augur_: 1's more impressive :P
19:29:54 <augur_> i think erdos died before i was born so.. :P
19:30:08 <pikhq> 0's much more impressive.
19:30:08 <augur_> he lived longer than i thought
19:30:37 <augur_> famous hungarian mathemagician
19:30:48 <augur_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erdős#Erd.C5.91s_number
19:30:52 <tusho> pikhq: 0 is pretty rare though :P
19:31:07 <augur_> rare enough to only exist in one person :P
19:31:13 <tusho> my erdos-bacon number is, uh, infinity+infinity :-P
19:31:15 <augur_> and then not any more.
19:31:54 <Slereah_> With the whole chanology thing
19:31:58 <augur_> hank aaron has an erdos number of 1!!! O_O
19:32:10 <augur_> you dont have a bacon number, slereah, shut up.
19:32:19 <Slereah_> They signed a baseball together or something, IIRC
19:32:36 <augur_> that's why i said it followed by :P
19:32:47 <pikhq> I must admit, I enjoy that Erdos has an Erdos-Bacon number of 4.
19:32:48 <tusho> In the news. Years ago.
19:32:53 <tusho> For like 2 seconds.
19:33:11 <tusho> pikhq: It would be better if he had an Erdos-Bacon number of 0.
19:33:12 <augur_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Erdosnumber.png/300px-Erdosnumber.png
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19:33:31 <Slereah_> THE MOST AWESOME INDIVIDUAL THERE IS
19:33:32 <pikhq> The lowest possible one is 1.
19:33:41 <tusho> pikhq: Not if he's Bacon AND Erdos!
19:34:11 * ais523 thinks that Erdos * Bacon could be more interesting
19:34:26 <Slereah_> And you ais523, what's your Erdos number!
19:34:36 <tusho> All the people with an Erdos number of 1 should dedicate their lives to writing papers with whomever asks.
19:35:03 <Slereah_> tusho : There's actually been auctions for such things
19:35:10 <ais523> I haven't co-authored any papers yet
19:35:19 <tusho> Slereah_: Yeah, I know.
19:35:26 <tusho> An Erdos-Bacon number of 0 would own though.
19:35:31 <pikhq> However, I have cowritten software.
19:35:41 <pikhq> Which is itself a form of publication. ;)
19:35:51 <pikhq> (thank you, Oerjan)
19:35:56 <augur_> The only ways a lower number could be achieved would be:
19:35:57 <tusho> What if Erdos appeared in a movie with Bacon?
19:35:58 <augur_> for an individual who had co-authored an academic paper with Paul Erdős to appear in a movie with Kevin Bacon;
19:36:01 <tusho> Or Bacon wrote a paper with Erdos?
19:36:01 <augur_> for Bacon to co-author an academic paper with someone with an Erdős number of 1, which would give Bacon an Erdős–Bacon number of 2;
19:36:03 <tusho> That would be hilarious.
19:36:04 <augur_> for anyone who appeared in the documentary N is a number along with Erdős to appear in a film with Bacon, which would posthumously give Erdős an Erdős–Bacon number of 2;
19:36:07 <augur_> for Kevin Bacon to appear in a film that also uses stock footage of Erdős, giving Erdős an Erdős-Bacon number of 1;
19:36:10 <augur_> for a heretofore unknown joint academic paper by Bacon and Erdős to be published, giving Bacon an Erdős-Bacon number of 1.
19:36:13 <augur_> it is impossible for anyone to have an Erdős-Bacon number of 0 since Kevin Bacon is the only person with Bacon number 0 and and Paul Erdős is the only person with Erdős number 0.
19:36:54 <tusho> Slereah_: That would be 0
19:37:10 <Slereah_> http://www.legorobotcomics.com/comics/21.jpg
19:37:27 <ais523> what if someone creates a film which contains stock footage of both Erdős and Bacon?
19:37:31 <oklopol> tusho: if you try going down @ iwbtg, the boss is quite simple, there's basically just one non-trivial thing @ it, but it takes about 5 minutes to come, and you have to do it 3 times... :D
19:37:45 <tusho> oklopol: getting up the appearing blocks sux though.
19:37:54 <augur_> slereah: wtf is that? ;p;
19:38:13 <Slereah_> Cracked also published a list of people linked to Paris Hilton, via penises
19:38:23 <tusho> Erdos-Bacon-Paris number
19:38:24 <augur_> thats like half the planet dude
19:38:34 <Slereah_> Such people as the Prince Charle, Osama Ben Laden and Adolf Hitler
19:38:42 <oklopol> tusho: what sucks about it?
19:38:42 <augur_> EVERYONE has a Paris number of 1
19:38:51 <tusho> Err, Erdos-Bacon-Hilton
19:38:52 <augur_> even _I_ do! she's such a skank
19:38:55 <oklopol> can't remember them or can't jump at the right time?
19:39:09 <tusho> oklopol: can't jump at the right time
19:39:15 <ais523> the UCC has started up again, it seems
19:39:22 <augur_> i come home one day and there she is, suckin my cock and i'm like DAMN PARIS
19:39:24 <ais523> tusho: underhanded C contest
19:39:29 <augur_> AINT YOU GOT NO SHAME?
19:39:35 <ais523> where you have to write a program that appears to work but doesn't
19:39:39 <oklopol> well, just try to remember the left-right sequence, and your brain should supply the details of their positions automatically
19:39:41 <ais523> even when looking at the source code
19:39:49 <oklopol> i mean, what direction to jump
19:39:51 <ais523> Slereah_: no, Underhanded
19:39:57 <augur_> better then Obfuscation!
19:40:01 <ais523> this year, you have to write a program that appears to redact an image
19:40:21 <ais523> tusho: yes, but I'm talking to the whole channel
19:40:52 <ais523> one I can think of is to stack-smash the entire image into metadata of itself
19:41:03 <ais523> but I don't know how much metadata PPM images have
19:41:12 <tusho> that's too suspicious
19:41:29 <ais523> tusho: well, you could just load the entire image into memory
19:41:29 <tusho> ais523: ok, how about this!
19:41:33 <tusho> I have a great idea.
19:41:37 <ais523> and then write the whole thing back
19:41:44 <tusho> Basically, redact things to opacity=0.
19:41:54 <ais523> tusho: i don't think PPMs have opacity values
19:41:59 <ais523> and really, that's obvious
19:42:06 <tusho> It's obvious, but it isn't unthinkable
19:42:12 <tusho> I can imagine someone writing it like that
19:42:15 <ais523> Slereah_: well, my ais523 number's 0 no matter how you count it, I think
19:42:32 <pikhq> ais523 said he's never coauthored.
19:42:34 <ais523> tusho: reminds me of people redacting images in vector formats by drawing a black rectangle over them
19:42:43 <pikhq> So, the highest such number is 0.
19:42:57 <ais523> especially in PDF, where you can copy-paste things from underneath the box if you drag from outside it
19:43:10 <tusho> ais523 number = links to people who have argued with ais523
19:43:21 <tusho> if you argue with someone who has argued with ais523 , that's 2
19:43:24 <tusho> I have an ais523 number of 1.
19:43:50 <AnMaster> <ais523> this year, you have to write a program that appears to redact an image <-- redact means?
19:43:54 <tusho> I don't think you've argued with him, Slereah_
19:43:57 <ais523> AnMaster: block out some of the pixels
19:44:02 <ais523> i.e. change a rectangle to black
19:44:06 <ais523> so you can't see what's behind ir
19:44:14 <ais523> Slereah_: what really?
19:44:21 <AnMaster> ais523, hm, so how can you "seem to succeed at it but then fail"?
19:44:21 <tusho> Slereah_: it has to be about something pointless but real
19:44:25 <tusho> and also it has to reach no conclusion
19:44:29 <tusho> (must end in a dice throw)
19:44:32 <tusho> (which is then ignored)
19:44:44 <ais523> AnMaster: e.g. you could stegonagraphically embed the pixels that you black out in the rest of the image
19:44:45 <AnMaster> just set alpha to 0 everywhere in the png
19:44:53 <tusho> AnMaster: that was my idea.
19:45:09 <tusho> yeah, I didn't know ppm didn't have opacity
19:45:13 <AnMaster> and ppm doesn't have an alpha channel
19:45:21 <ais523> anyway, I've thought of a way to comply with the letter but not the spirit of the contest
19:45:30 <tusho> [[For the 2008 contest: what does “blocked out” mean?
19:45:30 <tusho> It means those pixels are apparently replaced with non-image. It can mean overlaying a black rectangle, or any colored rectangle, or a pattern, or random noise. As long as it appears to remove those image pixels, that’s fine. ]]
19:45:34 <ais523> you use an off-by-one error to redact a slightly smaller block than stated
19:45:35 <tusho> ais523: random noise = BINGO
19:45:45 <tusho> you can just mangle the image
19:45:49 <ais523> that way some of the pixels are still left...
19:45:54 <ais523> tusho: I've thought of a better way
19:46:02 <ais523> generate the random noise with a standard RNG
19:46:06 <ais523> but /seed it from the image/
19:46:17 <ais523> that way, you can reconstruct the seed by looking at the pattern, in theory
19:46:35 <ais523> even better, seed it with the contents of uninitialised memory
19:46:42 <ais523> which happens to contain the image
19:46:44 <tusho> ais523: debian will fuck that up.
19:46:51 <ais523> and put annotations for a couple of memory-check tools
19:47:03 <AnMaster> ais523, oh yes valgrind and so on yes indeed
19:47:05 <ais523> with a comment saying "Debian please don't comment this out, we need entropy from somewhere"
19:47:16 <tusho> ais523: no, better
19:47:21 <tusho> put the commented out MD_update line
19:47:32 <tusho> next to MD_update, put:
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19:47:33 <ais523> unfortunately there's no good reason to seed an RNG that's designed to replace part of an image with random noise
19:47:36 <tusho> 'Debian says this is bad'
19:47:42 <AnMaster> ais523, how can you make the uninitialized memory contain the image?
19:47:53 <ais523> AnMaster: main() calls two functions
19:47:54 <AnMaster> it would depend on the malloc implementation
19:47:59 <ais523> the first loads the image into an auto variable
19:48:08 <ais523> uninit memory on the stack is easy enough to collide with
19:48:15 <AnMaster> ais523, however I think this is very brittle?
19:48:23 <AnMaster> doesn't openbsd zero stuff out?
19:48:24 <ais523> yes, but stack-smashing's won the UCC before
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19:48:36 <tusho> AnMaster: they don't mind
19:48:41 <AnMaster> at least I'm quite sure it will fail on openbsd ;P
19:48:47 <tusho> the whole point they use C is because you can do stuff like that
19:48:51 <AnMaster> ais523, got a link to this UCC?
19:48:58 <tusho> http://underhanded.xcott.com/
19:48:59 <ais523> http://underhanded.xcott.com
19:49:01 <tusho> but I'm not ais523
19:49:08 <ais523> and even put in the final slash
19:49:18 <tusho> ais523: let's argue about it
19:49:28 <ais523> nah, arguing's a bad idea
19:49:37 <tusho> not if you like ais523 numbers
19:49:41 <tusho> anyone want an ais523 number of 2?
19:50:47 <tusho> Slereah_: FUCK YOU, I WANT TO OFFER YOU ONE
19:50:53 <tusho> YOU BASTARD. You can't fucking appreciate nice offers.
19:51:01 <tusho> This channel is a piece of shit.
19:51:04 <Slereah_> I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKING AIS NUMBER!
19:51:10 <tusho> Slereah_: HOW DARE YOU
19:51:15 <tusho> I toil for DAYS to offer you this oppertunity
19:51:19 * AnMaster gives Slereah_ and tusho a level 1 AnMaster number
19:51:22 <lament> OMG YOU NOOBS LOL!!!!!!!
19:51:23 <tusho> YOU FUCKING SNEAKY BASTARD
19:51:30 <tusho> HOW DARE YOU STEAL THAT FROM ME Slereah_
19:51:47 <Slereah_> Sorry, I can't argue with you tusho
19:51:56 <Slereah_> Otherwise, you might take it back
19:52:46 <tusho> Slereah_: Wait how is that possible.
19:53:08 <Slereah_> But I think science is involved somehow
19:54:16 * Slereah_ is trying to spot the secret G-Man in "Concerned"
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19:55:20 <tusho> I don't think "What the #$*! Do We Know!?" should count to an erdos-bacon number.
19:55:41 <tusho> If it can even be called that, instead of "New Age bullshit propaganda posing as quantum theory"
19:55:52 <Slereah_> Does it star Kevin Bacon fucking Paris Hilton with Paul Erdos?
19:56:14 <tusho> Slereah_: That would be more educational.
19:56:15 <lament> he grabs erdos and fucks paris hilton with him.
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19:57:24 <Slereah_> For a guy who collaborated with other 500 dudes
19:57:25 <ais523> heh, from the UCC FAQ: Q. "Won't this contest have a bad influence on our youth?" A. "I don't see why: all I'm doing is inviting people to write malicious software in exchange for money."
19:57:29 <Slereah_> I can't think of a theorem with his name or anything
19:57:43 <tusho> ais523: the next paragraph is better
19:57:58 <ais523> nah, less good, I think
19:58:33 <Slereah_> They could encourage TERRORISM
19:58:37 <Slereah_> Like the people at "Unmaintainable code"
20:01:34 * oerjan wonders how pikhq found his erdos number
20:01:45 <Deewiant> http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html
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20:04:21 <Slereah_> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmaintermite.html
20:04:51 <oerjan> so easy compared to when i tried finding it. although it may only be based on math articles i guess.
20:05:18 <tusho> Slereah_: What's worse, the guy who runs mindprod.com is a HOMOSEXUAL TERRORIST! (I know this because I poked around his site and he has a section called Gay or whatever and it talks about how gay he is and how much he loves anal sex or somethibng.)
20:06:18 <tusho> I mean, sheesh, he's like the ANTI-AMERIKA.
20:06:50 <Slereah_> Gays are trying to undermine our codes!
20:06:56 <oerjan> as an aside, norway legalized gay marriage last week
20:07:02 <Slereah_> Of course, my own code is already unmaintainable
20:07:50 <tusho> oerjan: only last week?
20:08:04 <oerjan> there was a civil union law before that
20:08:28 <tusho> Civil union vs marriage is the stupidest distinction I ever heard of.
20:08:40 <oerjan> but now the law makes no technical difference between gays and other peoples' marriages
20:08:44 <Slereah_> Well, we don't want no fagsgetting our marriage.
20:08:57 <tusho> Slereah_: :awesome:
20:13:27 <Slereah_> I'll start writing the mulambda thing.
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20:17:52 <pikhq> oerjan: I have been asked by a Mr. Murphy to pester you to return to Agora.
20:18:07 <tusho> oerjan: ihope just broke agora.
20:18:09 <Slereah_> I should probably feed lists to the rec. and comp. functions, since they don't have a set number of arguments
20:18:13 <tusho> oerjan: it's very exciting.
20:18:13 <pikhq> You're being asked by a Minister Without Portfolio, man!
20:18:16 <Slereah_> It will probably be easier to parse.
20:18:21 <ais523> pikhq: Murphy asked oerjan to return to Agora?
20:18:28 <tusho> ais523: he's probably hyperventilating
20:18:30 <ais523> Murphy's one of the most important people there
20:18:37 <ais523> tusho: actually, e probably hasn't read it yet
20:18:41 <ais523> and anyway, it might not work
20:18:42 <tusho> 'MAYBE OERJAN CAN SAVE ME'
20:18:44 <pikhq> I'm on IM with him as we speak.
20:18:46 <tusho> 'WITH MATHEMATICS!'
20:19:48 <ais523> ah, I know a trivial way to undo
20:19:54 <tusho> ais523: don't do it just yet
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22:45:12 <tusho> esolangs.org's kareha is broken
22:45:20 <tusho> it seems to encrypt tripcodes totally randomly
22:45:31 <tusho> and changes each post for the same trip
22:48:56 <graue> tusho: did you just notice this?
22:49:09 <tusho> graue: Just when I posted the latest esolang's forum thread.
22:49:21 <tusho> Which was ... 2008-06-05, apparently.
22:49:28 <tusho> I probably should have emailed you but oh well.
22:49:32 <tusho> I didn't think it too important.
22:49:37 <tusho> Most people just use the board to complain about the board.
22:52:17 <tusho> Which reminds me! I need to write an article re-debunking all the complaints about it sometime.
22:52:22 <tusho> But yeah. It should probably be fixed.
22:57:33 <tusho> graue: It's not a priority, though. I mostly post anonymously.
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23:18:47 <graue> tusho: ok, cool. thanks for the report. i have no idea why it would be doing that, but i will look into it when i get a chance
23:19:07 <tusho> graue: maybe the crypt() is a new-fangled one instead of regular DES?
23:19:14 <tusho> Dunno if Kareha explicitly uses des_crypt.
23:19:23 <graue> i think i looked into this problem like 2 years ago
23:19:32 <graue> with a different board on the same host
23:19:34 <tusho> secure tripcodes seem to work fine
23:19:35 <tusho> so I bet it's that
23:19:43 <graue> freebsd's crypt() is non-standard
23:19:51 <graue> there's no way to get the historic behavior back within perl
23:19:59 <tusho> graue: DES crypt isn't hard to implement, though, thankfully.
23:20:05 <tusho> There's one in JS lying around here.
23:20:10 <tusho> I'm sure it could be trivially translated into Perl
23:20:58 <graue> i now remember posting on the kareha board about the freebsd problem, and that developer guy (waha?) saying it was unfixable. i probably won't have the time to implement DES crypt in perl, though
23:21:06 <tusho> graue: http://hotaru.thinkindifferent.net/javacrypt.js
23:21:25 <tusho> the only hard bit is that MEGA-HUGE table at the end, it seems
23:21:36 <tusho> though it's a bit dense
23:21:53 <tusho> i wouldn't bother though.
23:22:21 <tusho> the developer is !WAHa.06x36 yes
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23:31:16 <tusho> http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/symbolic/spring08/
23:31:21 <tusho> Slereah: ++, I tell you!
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