< 1213488071 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1213488095 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was your configure line? < 1213488102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../configure --prefix=/opt/jsmips --target=mips-jsmips --with-newlib --disable-libssp < 1213488110 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm on os x 10.4, x86 < 1213488131 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible, although a grim and unpopular possibility, that you need to use Apple's GCC sources rather than baseline GCC. < 1213488149 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether a baseline GCC will compile on Mac OS X even for cross-compiling. < 1213488187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1213488196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hm, it shouldn't even be trying to compile libiberty for the target, and on the host I'm sure you have strings.h :P < 1213488198 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit. Where are apple's gcc sources? < 1213488228 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, before going down that ugly path, could you pastebin more of the context of those errors? < 1213488233 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'k < 1213488278 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/SQFojI35.html < 1213488334 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I have more context if needed. < 1213488401 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME. 3 appeals of CFJ 1966c! < 1213488412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Any ideas? < 1213488426 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213488442 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's odd. < 1213488449 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trying to compile libiberty for the target ... < 1213488456 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no reason for it to compile libiberty for the target ... < 1213488466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Let's venture to #gcc. Together! < 1213488486 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeehaw! < 1213488501 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also a perfect opportunity to subtly "doink" jsmips :P ) < 1213488526 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You state the problem. I've already stated it once. < 1213488526 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213488622 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: TREASURE THIS MOMENT. You can pretend you have a mac. < 1213488793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: And pretend #gcc isn't dead < 1213488846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: So. What should I do now. < 1213488869 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. Get GNU/Linux? :P < 1213488875 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Fail. :P < 1213488882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Double fail for "GNU/Linux") < 1213488901 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. Get the GNU operating system utilizing the kernel Linux? :P < 1213488924 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "Get Linux" < 1213488987 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. Get GNU? (with whatever kernel you'd like) < 1213489009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ROLE REVERASL IN #GCC < 1213489023 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1213489251 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/projects/other/gcc-5483/ // OK, there must be an actual tarball somewhere :P < 1213489348 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/other/gcc-5483.tar.gz < 1213489379 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would try with Apple's GCC *shrugs* ... gross, but possibly necessary. < 1213489424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: What, exactly, is gross about Apple's GCC? < 1213489481 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's gross is that a different GCC would be necessary on a different OS when you're not even targeting that OS. < 1213489546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: OS X is a bit of a weird system < 1213489546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1213489571 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, to be fair, you need a different GCC on Windows too :P < 1213489877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1213490016 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHWAIT < 1213490029 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you download gcc-core, or the full gcc? < 1213490108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: full < 1213490113 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*smacks self in head* < 1213490117 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try configuring with --enable-languages=c < 1213490121 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Name your patches right, bitch. :P < 1213490137 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it'll patch against either, it just doesn't touch anything out of the core. < 1213490168 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-languages=c will suppress all the other compilers, so it'll be the same compile as gcc-core. < 1213490212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Again, I have too much experience writing cross-compilers for my own good, I'm quite used to downloading only the core :P ) < 1213490236 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*writing* cross-compilers or compiling them? :P < 1213490252 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Wrompiling them. < 1213490256 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough: Too much experience compiling GCC cross compilers. < 1213490269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Oh, and you know that blohsom I was writing about? Well it turns out Hobix, though written in Ruby, can do it all. < 1213490276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, what's more, I actually got it to work. < 1213490288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HobixThatActuallyWorksAndIsMaintained: Coming to a ESO git repository near you! < 1213490294 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, report a bug "Not writting in Haskell" and see what they do about it :P < 1213490297 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*written < 1213490301 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1213490304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: they = _why the lucky stiff < 1213490307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wrote a raycaster in Haskell! >_>
< 1213490313 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the most prominent members of the ruby community < 1213490316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I wouldn't think much :P < 1213490327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the website hasn't been updated since 2005. < 1213490339 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why a hobix that actually works and is maintained is such a wonderful thing for ESO to do! < 1213490339 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... so maybe it needs rewriting anyway :P < 1213490347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Nah, hackety.org still uses it. < 1213490350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's active. < 1213490353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ... _why still uses it. < 1213490354 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213490357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it works well. For stuff. < 1213490375 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so "_why the lucky stiff" is a person? < 1213490389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: yes < 1213490407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA _why, why the lucky stiff, and most confusingly 'why' < 1213490411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he has a gui lib named 'Shoes', singular < 1213490419 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why just released Shoes, which is a GUI library. < 1213490422 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1213490424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://whytheluckystiff.net/ < 1213490441 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have seen Hackety Hack, he made that < 1213490474 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen much of the Rubites at all (maybe I've been avoiding them) < 1213490554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Me testing hobix' default install that actually works: < 1213490556 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso-std.org/~tusho/hobix/ < 1213490563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso-std.org/~tusho/hobix2/ (With comments. That don't work.) < 1213490603 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"posted by elliott hird"? < 1213490612 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho == ehird? < 1213490619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: YOU GOT ME < 1213490624 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1213490626 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213490643 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In #esoteric today: the three people who didn't know that already < 1213490689 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pretty sure I'd seen tusho and ehird speaking at the same time and acting like different persons < 1213490701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: um.. nope < 1213490717 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: GCC BUILT < 1213490740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I assumed my personality was unique enough that there'd be no confusion < 1213490745 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly offended :P < 1213490755 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: YAY ^^ < 1213490763 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Link to newlib, I'm a lazy ass. < 1213490772 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=newlib < 1213490790 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: It's more snarky if you use tinyurl to link to justfuckinggoogleit.com/?q=newlib. < 1213490803 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1213490815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho you're ehird? < 1213490819 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that four people. < 1213490824 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No, 3. < 1213490828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I predicted the third. < 1213490831 0 :ehird!n=RawIRC@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213490832 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOME. < 1213490836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1213490841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp! < 1213490843 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lie! < 1213490844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You got my real name rong. < 1213490845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong < 1213490847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: WTF, you're still here pretending to be me! < 1213490850 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two t's. < 1213490852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY? Crap :P < 1213490855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1213490864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pwnt. < 1213490866 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213490866 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just names to me, and if the names dont match, i dont know :( < 1213490874 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ehird. tusho. ehird. tusho. Repeat. < 1213490886 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if oklopol didnt alternate to oklofok < 1213490886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: WTF NEWLIB IS 12MB < 1213490905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: 'ehird' is deprecated, fyi. :P < 1213490920 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you pronounce "ehird" btw? < 1213490929 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ee hurd. < 1213490938 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1213490939 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ... Elliott Hird. < 1213490939 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: The various per-system stuff is 16MB alone. < 1213491018 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least oklo* usually takes nicks with oklo* ... besides, I'm kind of suspecting the different oklo*'s aren't quite the same person :P < 1213491032 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they are olsner < 1213491040 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can assure you < 1213491045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every _inch_ of them is the same... < 1213491051 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>d < 1213491054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: You would know, you've explored every inch. < 1213491060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH SNAP < 1213491062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that WAS the implication < 1213491065 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213491067 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you captain obvious < 1213491068 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being silly < 1213491073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1213491079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you werent BEING silly < 1213491081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ARE silly < 1213491083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody appreciates sarcastic captain obviouses, augur < 1213491090 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: OK now how do I shot newlib. < 1213491092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're, what, 15? all 15 year olds are silly. < 1213491107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15? no. :P < 1213491115 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16, whatever < 1213491116 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1213491118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213491119 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213491124 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14? < 1213491125 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13? < 1213491128 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant be THAT young < 1213491128 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1213491132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you fail at logreading! < 1213491158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you fail are remembering the joke we had the other day about you being 15 and pedobear coming to snatch you up :( < 1213491162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad tusho! bad! < 1213491179 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk eating cake and drinking coffe < 1213491179 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1213491181 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1213491181 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this like double sarcasm < 1213491182 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1213491189 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Same config flags as binutils: ../configure --prefix=... --target=mips-jsmips < 1213491190 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, changing nicks is evil... you shouldn't expect every other person on irc to link your new nick to your old self *manually* - it's easier for them (us) to just treat you as an entirely new and unknown entity < 1213491204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am infinitely recursive sarcasm < 1213491206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irony < 1213491212 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is gone
< 1213491214 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal irony? < 1213491226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many levels of sarcasm most people have /me's age wrapped up in
< 1213491231 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOGOGOGOGOGO 'MAKE' < 1213491233 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: I choose to treat everyone as a completely new and unknown entity, even if I've talked to them a hundred times before. < 1213491259 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise choice, nicks being so very easy to falsify < 1213491262 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Makes it easier, since I don't have to remember anyone. < 1213491272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'OH < 1213491275 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes path
< 1213491276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: line 1: mips-jsmips-cc: command not found < 1213491296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Wait, what LD environment variables do I have to change for /opt/jsmips/lib < 1213491308 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't need any ... < 1213491331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, what do you have in /opt/jsmips/lib ? < 1213491337 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should just be a couple of .a files. < 1213491353 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the gcc/ directory, but GCC figures that one out itself) < 1213491366 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh, hah, it's trying mips-jsmips-cc < 1213491367 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs < 1213491370 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mips-jsmips-gcc < 1213491381 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably trying -cc because -gcc wasn't in $PATH when it configured. < 1213491389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic,ic < 1213491444 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a pretty stupid decision, really :P < 1213491449 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, for the logs, my age is fib(4+3)+5-4. < 1213491463 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(7)+1? < 1213491469 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err. < 1213491472 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-6 < 1213491483 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(4+3)+5-6 < 1213491488 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib(7)-1? < 1213491500 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: Shut up, I obfuscate everything < 1213491500 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213491517 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a 0-indexed fib() function or a 1-indexed fib() function? < 1213491540 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: fib(0)=0, fib(1)=1 < 1213491571 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Having more luck with newlib now? < 1213491575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yeah. < 1213491578 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's compiling. Sloooooooooooooowly. < 1213491587 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then the pain is probably mostly over :P < 1213491598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I think JSMIPS is the real pain. < 1213491616 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213491619 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213491624 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the pain of cross compiling, but sure. < 1213491659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You know, I think we'll have to hand-code a gui with . X11 will just be too slow < 1213491659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213491672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include ! < 1213491677 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not even remotely considering GUIs yet :P
< 1213491696 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: ehm, you're 12!? < 1213491727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: sheesh, welcome to like 5 days ago < 1213491730 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: how long does newlib take to compile exactly? < 1213491734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 years? < 1213491745 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately. < 1213491756 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Longer than GCC, bizarrely enough. < 1213491787 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really!? I thought newlib was supposed to be small? < 1213491795 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: so did I.. < 1213491803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I think the first JSMIPS thing I'll do is a JS FFI < 1213491824 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213491830 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be pretty nifty, and not actually too difficult. < 1213491836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js_t *js_eval(char *src); < 1213491843 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make sure you associate it with a syscall # that isn't commonly assigned to a UNIX syscall. < 1213491861 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :js_t *js_prop(js_t *obj, char *name); < 1213491881 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void *js_to_func(js_t *obj); < 1213491881 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1213491893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fib 7) + 1 huh < 1213491916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats 14, tusho. < 1213491923 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet you said you WERENT 14. < 1213491924 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: -1 < 1213491928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I corrected myself. < 1213491939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're really 12? < 1213491945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :P < 1213491952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: JSMIPS IS DONE < 1213491953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: did the second boss, continued for some while and missaved to a place where i can only return back to the beginning of the game :D < 1213491955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMGZZZZZ!!! < 1213491955 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im ten years older than you? < 1213491960 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Uh, you mean newlib, right? < 1213491961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! :D < 1213491964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1213491964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213491966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::pounce:: < 1213491967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3you < 1213491978 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION records this momentous orgy.
< 1213491983 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: If you're 22 then you're ten years older than me. < 1213491989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're something else then you're not. :P < 1213491996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm 22. :P < 1213492001 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes tusho:: < 1213492003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol < 1213492007 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cool < 1213492009 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an evaluation model for Reactance < 1213492023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. You rape me and don't even give it a second thought! < 1213492023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, i implemented it < 1213492031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: bin2arr.c: No such file or directory < 1213492031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: no input files < 1213492032 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1213492038 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: why would i? it's RAPE. < 1213492044 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: implemented it in JS? < 1213492050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: BUT IT'S NOT CARING RAPE. < 1213492052 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with IO? < 1213492059 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all rape is not caring rape, tusho. < 1213492062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i'm stopping iwbtg, a game is not worth playing if there's a possibility of having to start over < 1213492065 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CARING RAPE IS < 1213492065 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I forgot to add that before, hg pull to get it. < 1213492075 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CARING RAPE DOES NOT EXIST. < 1213492077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh fine < 1213492080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: just has output < 1213492106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes tusho then kisses him on the forehead:: < 1213492113 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in JS tho? < 1213492114 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reports to the fbi
< 1213492117 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i see some working code? < 1213492124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i've never coded anything in JS < 1213492130 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame :P < 1213492138 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats your implementation in? < 1213492141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python < 1213492143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Python I gues < 1213492144 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1213492161 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Can I make the test program more exciting < 1213492162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i _see_ anything or is it just /ostensibly/ implemented < 1213492174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've pasted the source < 1213492178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Of course. < 1213492180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i'm pissed at iwbtg < 1213492184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1213492184 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o its ostensibly implemented :) < 1213492196 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: That was just whatever random crap I decided to test with :P < 1213492200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even see the save button, was a misfire < 1213492213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how tusho knows more about haskell than I do < 1213492214 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1213492217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tusho's 12 < 1213492221 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh kids < 1213492233 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN WHIPPERSNAPPERS AND THEIR HASKELL < 1213492325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1213492329 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off my lawn! < 1213492393 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213492411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Pushed. < 1213492417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the test program all modular. :P < 1213492453 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Doesn't fit in the console though :P < 1213492461 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Nor does your previous example. < 1213492464 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I make it scrollable? :P < 1213492473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if not scrollable, bigger. < 1213492505 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bigger, yes, but scrollable would be tricky because I'd eventually like to have full vt100 support. < 1213492531 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm just going to swap the newlines for spaces in the fibo output and push ;) < 1213492582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: < 1213492582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setTimeout(mipses[this.num].run, 0); < 1213492584 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work < 1213492585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it? < 1213492598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it dies after hello world < 1213492617 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why it doesn't, but my current unmodified version does :P < 1213492629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: But it's slower. < 1213492636 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Inherently) < 1213492641 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the expression is actually reevaluated in the global scope. < 1213492652 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the timeout fires. < 1213492654 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is lame :( < 1213492663 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I had to make the array of mipses in the first place. < 1213492667 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you could just do this.run < 1213492697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Regardless, it eval()s a string and that's really slow for js < 1213492699 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be our bottleneck < 1213492712 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realize that, but have no solution. < 1213492720 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to invent one, but until you do, don't just break it :P < 1213492876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Done. < 1213492878 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so much faster now. < 1213492883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ var func = function () { func.mips.run(); }; < 1213492883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : func.mips = this; < 1213492883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setTimeout(func, 0);]] < 1213492891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eliminates the mips array
< 1213492919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hm. Where else is mipses used? < 1213492922 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, didn't realize that would work, but good to know that it does. < 1213492927 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Pretty much nowhere :P < 1213492933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did it suddenly stop working then < 1213492941 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to fix test.head and test.tail. < 1213492946 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1213492952 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho why are you doing it that way?? < 1213492956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use closure.. < 1213492959 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Nope. < 1213492965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get re-evaluated with self = Window. < 1213492975 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er this < 1213492975 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha? < 1213492978 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, actually: Leave mipses in so the 'Stop MIPS' button can stop all the MIPSes. < 1213492980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever, i'll trust you :p < 1213493029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, even better < 1213493030 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : var self = this; < 1213493030 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : setTimeout(function () { self.run(); }, 0); < 1213493046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setTimeout((function(m){ return function(){ m.run(); }; })(this), 0); < 1213493049 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: K, pull. < 1213493050 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fine, just push something X-P < 1213493058 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I said that JUST too late X_X < 1213493062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay makeshift lets :) < 1213493072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that console is a BIT gigantic ... < 1213493105 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't fit on my screen. < 1213493108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well, I like it. Shrink if you want to < 1213493119 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh *shrugs* < 1213493162 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Tweaked. < 1213493163 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pull. < 1213493197 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoot. OK, I'm going to fix up test.head and test.tail to work better with the new setup. < 1213493244 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ah, wait < 1213493247 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me fix that < 1213493257 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er < 1213493260 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already pushed it :P < 1213493310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Too bad, I pushed a more awesomer version < 1213493317 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, we can currently only have one mips < 1213493320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do we need mipses? < 1213493325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't, really. Can I remove it? < 1213493349 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can currently only have one mips: Until threads are implemented >: ) < 1213493351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: even Start MIPS will only start _one_ < 1213493374 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we should NOT do threads by using multiple VMs... < 1213493415 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make a new MIPS and point its memory at the previous MIPS' .mem, you get threads with no significant overhead or complication. < 1213493432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: But if you just make MIPS itself handle the threads, it's less ugly. < 1213493436 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And less memory intensive. < 1213493437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And faster. < 1213493445 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be important when we start running real MT apps < 1213493455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would contest that it's more ugly, less memory intensive, and neither faster nor slower. < 1213493465 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you'd need to implement a bunch of thread switching code. < 1213493480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yes faster, because it's one streamlined operation chain < 1213493535 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only difference is whether we implement context switching in JavaScript or allow the JavaScript interpreter's already-existent context switching for supporting setTimeout do it for us. < 1213493571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Meh, fine. Don't make jsmips any slower while I sleep. < 1213493571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213493600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAYYYEE < 1213493605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1213493632 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 12!? friggin twelve < 1213494395 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213495118 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213495272 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213495277 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213495673 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-156-235.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213496380 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213498991 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213499000 0 :Phenax!n=Phenax@67.15.72.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213499644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1213499662 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okookkoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1213501024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bad oko < 1213504562 0 :crink!n=user@unaffiliated/crink JOIN :#esoteric < 1213505010 0 :crink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1213505024 0 :crink!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there brainfuck written in assembler? < 1213505612 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ... brainfucks abound < 1213506904 0 :crink!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1213507360 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm|--0@219-88-194-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1213507406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i see you're doing projecteuler < 1213508641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when did you start? < 1213516011 0 :arekinath!n=nikosai@ppp121-45-192-97.lns1.bne1.internode.on.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213516799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1213516800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1213517933 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-48-6.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213520032 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213520039 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213520659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213520884 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213522487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: timestamp of the solution to the first one is 2006-04-02 11:22 < 1213522494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't been doing it much lately < 1213522546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did some 80 tasks near christmas, and started doing again a few days ago < 1213522571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually *during* christmas) < 1213525491 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Remote closed the previous member app" < 1213526410 0 :arekinath!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1213527091 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-54-75.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1213528663 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1213528670 0 :Hiato1!n=Hiato@dsl-245-54-75.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1213528937 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-220-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213529384 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-48-54.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213529553 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213529669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213529686 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213530180 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1213530496 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1213530529 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-220-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213530714 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION congratulates Russel T Davis on a brilliant tale of multiple-critical-miss on the "Influence Mob" roll.
< 1213530746 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Davies < 1213532136 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host146-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1213533092 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-48-6.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213533386 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213533860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213533874 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213534574 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1213534979 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213534995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213535573 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1213535660 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213537812 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap06.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1213538242 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-48-6.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213538793 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back people < 1213538947 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck < 1213538954 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My pi book still didn't arrive. < 1213538956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: hi < 1213538959 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it's here tomorrow. < 1213539004 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will teach me to order from a bookstore called Quartermelon. < 1213539020 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213539061 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1213539067 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :timotiis < 1213540574 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213540646 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213541449 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213542021 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213542500 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1213542664 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213542668 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213542773 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213542812 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-186-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1213543483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213544309 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213544340 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213545860 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213545931 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1213545937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: hi < 1213545946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inventing a crazy new version number system for C-INTERCAL < 1213545956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm thinking about doing things like betas and release candidates < 1213545961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also want to number repository entries < 1213545977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, take a look: < 1213545978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1213545981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22.-3.0.29 (alpha in repository, before any betas) < 1213545981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.-2.0.29 (beta, thus the -2) < 1213545981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.-1.2.-2.0.29 (repository revision preparing for another beta) < 1213545981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.-1.0.29 (this means the second release candidate for 0.29) < 1213545981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.29 (version 0.29 itself) < 1213545982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.29 (a bugfix for 0.29) < 1213545984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1213545994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Needs more imaginary numbers < 1213546001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: nah, I like it as it is < 1213546005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple and easy to understand < 1213546027 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's not < 1213546031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I need to do now is figure out how to get darcs to number things like that < 1213546033 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative numbers were crazy enough < 1213546038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to get Debian to do things < 1213546038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imaginary numbers crazier < 1213546043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, you can't make darcs do that < 1213546046 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs just tracks revisions. < 1213546058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it allows pre-commit scripts IIRC < 1213546064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can update the version number for me < 1213546071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that'll be unpredictable < 1213546085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if only one person ever pushes < 1213546093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each push would increment the version number < 1213546110 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if you let me push because i'm so awesome < 1213546111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1213546112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, figured out how it works yet? < 1213546113 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1213546115 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1213546122 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway < 1213546126 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL already uses negs < 1213546127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's lexicographical right-to-left, numerical within the sections < 1213546130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you it was easy < 1213546135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes, but it interprets them in decimal < 1213546135 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you should use something else < 1213546145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not imaginary numbers then something else < 1213546146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I'm not just trying to be esoteric < 1213546152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually a good version number system < 1213546180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else could you number, for instance, a repository revision intended to eventually become part of the second beta for version 0.29? < 1213546203 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0.29a < 1213546208 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you wanna be more precise < 1213546212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.29a < 1213546212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1213546215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.29a254 < 1213546227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that's a non-esoteric system. If we wanna be esoteric... < 1213546233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, that doesn't work < 1213546238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to become before beta 2 < 1213546243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after beta 1 < 1213546245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the versioning system < 1213546265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be 0.29beta2~pre1 or something silly like that in existing systems < 1213546272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Make version numbers cellular automata. < 1213546288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: seriously, though < 1213546289 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Each revision = step the cellular automata one step. < 1213546299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do something more fancy for betas, alphas, minors and majors. < 1213546305 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would certainly make debian hate you < 1213546321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I'm writing a backwards-compatible C-INTERCAL to Debian version number compiler < 1213546324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in INTERCAL < 1213546331 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1213546335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi SimonRC < 1213546338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do it with my cellular automata idea. < 1213546341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1213546342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had the motivation to do useful stuff like you do < 1213546346 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the cellular automata description language < 1213546351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made up of 0-9, minus, and . < 1213546352 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, useful compared to the stuff I do < 1213546361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and - can only come before a number and a . < 1213546368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and . can't be at the end or the start < 1213546371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and . can't come after . < 1213546385 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, things like 3345.-45.2343.-346883.-34.342.4 < 1213546387 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1213546395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does . or : come first in alphabetical order? < 1213546397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1213546410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. comes first < 1213546425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just have to try to figure out the implications of that... < 1213546540 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't like my idea. < 1213546543 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You there? < 1213546545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1213546555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually trying to do something which is almost serious here < 1213546578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my system is flexible enough to have release candidates for alphas for betas, if necessary < 1213546593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can be expressed Debian-style if necessary < 1213546593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do that with mine! < 1213546598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1213546599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: how? < 1213546613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and by Debian-style I mean also sorting correctly < 1213546616 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I'm not entirely sure, but I know it's _possible_ < 1213546621 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the basic idea to the system < 1213546632 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- code up some kind of cellular automata thingy < 1213546640 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- find an initial pattern that grows and shrinks indefinitely < 1213546645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have to download the source code for dpkg to figure out how its sorting worked, though < 1213546650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- write an input language with that format < 1213546661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- each 'most minor' release, step it < 1213546665 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno what to do for more important releases < 1213546672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and because of repeating patterns, prefix it with the year < 1213546678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2008.3345.-45.2343.-346883.-34.342.4 < 1213546682 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1213546685 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be smaller most of the time < 1213546686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1213546693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008.-34.5563.3563.-45861 < 1213546697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine gives smaller names to the most important releases < 1213546712 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you could step it until it shrinks N for more important releases < 1213546739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it embeds the C-INTERCAL version number at the end of the Debian version number < 1213546761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure you can convert mine to dpkg < 1213546766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bit of magic < 1213546774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in theory you can convert anything to dpkg < 1213546776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most stupid solution is to make the debian version the generation number < 1213546780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can convert anything to my system < 1213546783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's gotta be better ways < 1213546787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that would work. < 1213546799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is basically a binary tree < 1213546808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :expressed in numbers and hyphens and dots < 1213546813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can insert anywhere into it < 1213546828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welp, I think my solution is very intercally < 1213546837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: then you don't get INTERCAL < 1213546844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1213546937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you understand how a tree-sort works? < 1213546941 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1213546944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my system's a serialisation of that < 1213546960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making it obvious that you can add a new version number anywhere in the tree < 1213546975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's pretty elegant too < 1213546997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the weird historical right-to-left reading, it's pretty much a perfect version number scheme < 1213547034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine how useful it would be for people like Firefox to be able to release a release candidate for 3.0 < 1213547040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, say, call it 3.0.-1.1 < 1213547051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have 3.0.-1.2 available for the second release candidate < 1213547078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3.0.-1.2.-1.130 (or whatever) available for their repository versions that were partially-fixed versions of the second release candidate < 1213547133 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think they'd be so enthusiatc < 1213547136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enthusiastic < 1213547177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't have meaningful version numbers for those at the moment < 1213547192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they end up with separate version number schemes for repo versions and released versions < 1213547432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, 1.-1.2.-2.0.29 Debianises to 29:0~8.2~9.1.-1.2.-2.0.29 < 1213547442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten's complement FTW < 1213547495 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jrj < 1213547496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hrh < 1213547497 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1213547606 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-220-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213547732 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whistle < 1213547772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION faces the terrifying prospect of having to do string handling in INTERCAL
< 1213547802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a string library! < 1213547814 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to pass arrays as arguments? < 1213547817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that would involve doing string handling < 1213547829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, you don't pass things as arguments, as such < 1213547835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each variable is scoped individually < 1213547838 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213547845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you pass values in globals and scope them to simulate argument passing < 1213547851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works for arrays just as well as it works for scalars < 1213547855 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I know that... < 1213547873 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered if you could somehow have array references < 1213547875 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1213547880 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the combine base < 1213547886 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to copy things into specific arrays all the time < 1213547888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH:[ < 1213547889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Tell me what to use then. Having read as far as to page p. 22 in the K&R, it doesn't mention another way of printing ``".]] < 1213547898 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wrong window < 1213547900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make a language with 50 ways of printing the empty string < 1213547918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: C has an infinite number of ways to print the empty string < 1213547927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but I mean, nothing else < 1213547945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't all NOPs print an empty string, anyway? < 1213547958 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1213547960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taht's what's so hilarious < 1213547963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: there aren't exactly references < 1213547965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone posted a program with printf(""); < 1213547970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have overloaded variables < 1213547971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone laughed at it and told them why it was stupid < 1213547974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they responded with that < 1213547974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can do a similar thing < 1213547994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't overload arrays in C-INTERCAL < 1213547999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can in CLC-INTERCAL < 1213548004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like symlinking < 1213548020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can, for instance, do DO .999 <- ",1/,2" SUB #1 < 1213548032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give yourself a pretext to evaluate ,1/,2 < 1213548040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from then on ,1 is an alias to ,2 < 1213548050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can scope the aliases as much as you like < 1213548061 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it might work < 1213548068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue, though, is that if someone STASHes ,2, the new value will be referenced by ,1 rather than the old one < 1213548072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't reference auto variables < 1213548074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only globals < 1213548083 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1213548098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason symlinks work is that filesystems don't have scoping rules < 1213548112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although scoped filesystems are an interesting idea, now I think about it < 1213548124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a greatly improved way to do temporary files < 1213548136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and chrooting, for that matter < 1213548156 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree < 1213548173 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if there were a proper system call to create anonymous files and directories < 1213548201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: a scoped method would allow you to create named files and directories that you could see, but no other process could, that vanished when your process ended < 1213548202 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than doing a hope-its-atomic open-and-unlink < 1213548217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't cause trouble if you picked the same name as another process < 1213548220 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anonymous directories might work quite well for that < 1213548231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, they might be one way to implement them < 1213548235 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... < 1213548264 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fear that Java File objects will interact poorly with anonymous directories and such < 1213548281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my method would let you name a tempfile anything < 1213548281 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, they use full paths a lot. < 1213548289 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why name it at all? < 1213548294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could name it /etc/passwd and your program would still work < 1213548295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I came up with the craziest JS thing ever. < 1213548304 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I see what you mean now < 1213548307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: so you can override a system file's contents like that < 1213548335 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLan9's union filesystems are a bit like that < 1213548372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised < 1213548385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, somehow I doubt they ended up inventing symlinks for variables in programming languages < 1213548399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but scoped files and symlinked variables are both sensible concepts in some sense < 1213548407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hardcore plan9ers would like to make variables symlinks, probably < 1213548412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they like the fs quite a lot :P < 1213548418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Macs have references to files < 1213548425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same way that you can have pointers to variables < 1213548434 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: macs references to files are, uh, symlinks. < 1213548439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, as in numbers < 1213548445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't in the filesystem < 1213548450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're ints that can be passed from program to program < 1213548454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used internally < 1213548457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, file descriptors? < 1213548463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the file has to be open to do that < 1213548470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think most Unices can manage it < 1213548475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Mac filesystem is weird < 1213548478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I don't think os x is any different in this area < 1213548482 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HFS+ isn't that weird < 1213548494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 6 different ways of representing a file IIRC < 1213548510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it corresponds sort of to passing around inode numbers in a typical Unix program < 1213548512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but saner < 1213548575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does any programming language have permissions on variables? < 1213548592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose OO languages have private/protected/public, but it's not quite the same < 1213548603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1213548610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably some languages have things like character special variables < 1213548610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know, I really dislike filesystems < 1213548619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't think heirarchically. < 1213548623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what would you use instead? < 1213548634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think a multidimensional filesystem would be good < 1213548639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be based on tagging, I think < 1213548641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Something tagged. Multidimensional sounds nice. < 1213548644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tags could themselves be tagged < 1213548649 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213548650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds very good < 1213548651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do hierarchies if necessary < 1213548656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and, then, files are just tags < 1213548669 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turtle solutions are always nicer, I feel < 1213548679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/passwd would mean "a file tagged with (passwd tagged with an untagged etc)" < 1213548685 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kind of, yeah < 1213548687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it would be < 1213548695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it's backwards-compatible to real filesystems < 1213548708 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tag tagged with [the tag passwd tagged with [the tag etc tagged with []]] < 1213548708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference would be that instead of, say, /home/ais523 < 1213548718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have /home&/ais523 < 1213548718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be /user/ais523 < 1213548729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tag ais523 tagged with [the tag user tagged with []] < 1213548735 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and look, users are just tags! < 1213548741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh, that's so elegant. < 1213548743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I'd take that as corresponding to the user ais523 < 1213548747 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1213548749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users can just be tags! < 1213548756 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose canonical names < 1213548759 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with my idea, files could have subfiles < 1213548762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas /user/ais523&/home would be the same as /home&/user/ais523 < 1213548764 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: of course you do. I don't see that as a bad thing < 1213548771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't really like that idea < 1213548773 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why seperate the concepts < 1213548776 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are fewer safeguards against things having duplicate names or no names < 1213548777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I need some way to get /home/ais523 and /user/ais523/home to map to those < 1213548782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine lets you make EVERYTHING a tag < 1213548782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the & just means 'tagged with both'' < 1213548788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: so are mine < 1213548794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the multidimensionality I'm talking about < 1213548798 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see why /user/ais523 is not perfect < 1213548804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's the user itself < 1213548807 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user/ais523/passwd < 1213548808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not eir home directory < 1213548811 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user/ais523/code/c-intercal/ < 1213548815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that? < 1213548823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: clashes < 1213548836 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one divide up space between things and programs? < 1213548836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, how about this: < 1213548837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, say, /user/ais523/group might be "www-data" < 1213548841 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait < 1213548843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look: < 1213548860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: presumably, programs would be tagged with /bin < 1213548860 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have 1000 packages installed; what stops them colliding? < 1213548873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user/ais523/[code,c-intercal] < 1213548876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1213548876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1213548876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, /bin/pager might be ambiguous < 1213548882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/[user,home]/ais523/[code,c-intercal] < 1213548883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1213548889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really, we need tags to be predicates with arguments < 1213548896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /bin/pager&/less would be unambiguous, as would /bin/pager&/more < 1213548900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a nice way to do composition < 1213548911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, /package/less and /package/more, probably < 1213548915 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: user.home/ais523/code.c-intercal < 1213548928 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see where you are coming from < 1213548930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and file extensions would be gone < 1213548937 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're just tags < 1213548941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho's . is the same as my &, I think, just with a different precedence < 1213548952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so having both would be simple enough < 1213548959 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like a bit of heirarchy though still... < 1213548961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user.home/ais523/documents/test < 1213548963 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user.home/ais523/documents.pdf/test < 1213548965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user.home/ais523/documents.txt/test < 1213548970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look, it's MultiViews :P < 1213548973 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some tags only make sense if certain other tags are applied < 1213548981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that's why tags can be tagged themself < 1213548983 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: have dependent tags then < 1213548987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the / does < 1213548990 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1213548992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looks like a normal system < 1213549002 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have a heirarchy of tags? < 1213549006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes < 1213549006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: no < 1213549009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213549010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1213549018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a folksonomy of tags < 1213549020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except... not exactly a hierarchy < 1213549022 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(terirble word) < 1213549027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know what folksonomy means < 1213549038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have 'a heirarchy of tags' as much as you have 'a heirarchy of files' < 1213549044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't, because they're tagged < 1213549050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not heirarchically sorted < 1213549065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well it isn't a hierarchy because, say, */documents makes sense < 1213549072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means "things tagged with documents" < 1213549078 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1213549081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without specifying anything about what documents is tagged with < 1213549127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: are you sure about that /user.home/ thing? < 1213549139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought it would be (/home./user/ais523)/documents/test < 1213549155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the document is in the home section, and belongs to user ais523 < 1213549170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure < 1213549172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but some tags are transitive < 1213549179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not right to have all tags transitive, though < 1213549193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, for instance, if a tag is tagged /user/ais523, so should the thing it tags < 1213549202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... no, that's wrong too < 1213549220 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I started off feeling that the whole system had feet of clay, but that feeling is going away. < 1213549259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :datestamps would be tags too? < 1213549266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: of course < 1213549274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be great if there could be tags like "yesterday" too < 1213549280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are automanaged by the system < 1213549286 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would definitely need an equivalent to the pwd < 1213549291 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in shells, at least < 1213549300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: well, my idea is you'd have a 'working tag' < 1213549306 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213549308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's automatically prepended to any tag specification you use < 1213549327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tags like yesterday - just add algorithmic tags < 1213549333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes < 1213549335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[now the FS is undecidable, but who cares?] < 1213549361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: algorithmic tags could probably be inefficient, though < 1213549366 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some tags "change faster" than others, but only typicaly so < 1213549367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for practical use I'd recommend special-casing them < 1213549394 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the tag specifying the current user will change very rarely < 1213549418 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remember that everything is a tag < 1213549420 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the fs < 1213549420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I think we need 3 precedences for the . operator < 1213549423 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean _everything_ < 1213549425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes < 1213549433 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is, the whole system is the kernel + tags < 1213549444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like microkernels, but to the incomprehensible extreme < 1213549452 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something else you lose... < 1213549455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I love it < 1213549458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what I mean, is, created/20080615 is a tag < 1213549461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine < 1213549464 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1213549466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to store in a system somewhere < 1213549472 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a set of tags, it is hard to tell if it identifies a unique file or not < 1213549472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yesterday shouldn't be stored < 1213549472 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except < 1213549476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :created/2008/06/15 < 1213549480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more specifically < 1213549481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :created/2008/06/15/* < 1213549485 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since seconds etc will be tracked too < 1213549487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1213549488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that isn't much of a problem < 1213549492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(created/2008/*)/* < 1213549497 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will get you all tags created 2008 < 1213549499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always write inode/100 if you needed to specify a file definitely < 1213549501 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adding a file might change an unambiguous tag into an ambiguous one < 1213549504 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good or what. < 1213549515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, but that's deliberate < 1213549518 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ is a bit of a jarring character though < 1213549525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(created,2008,*),* < 1213549529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: / means tagged with < 1213549529 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh .. don't like that < 1213549534 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1213549535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we need three ways to do 'and' < 1213549536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit jarring < 1213549538 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how common it is < 1213549541 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, we don't < 1213549542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need parens < 1213549547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but for simple use < 1213549560 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(created*2008*?)*? < 1213549562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1213549566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say we have low-precedence &, high-precedence . and onesided-precedence , < 1213549566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(created#2008#*)#* < 1213549579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's /user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/test < 1213549582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I prefer , over all of them < 1213549582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks good < 1213549587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a little hard to understand < 1213549587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so let's just have , < 1213549598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, , is the most useful of them < 1213549614 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so we are still keeping inodes or equivalent? < 1213549616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a/b,c/d is ((a/b),c)/d < 1213549623 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1213549624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/created/2008/*)/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: they'd be a physical thing < 1213549631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all pdf documents in ais523's home created in 2008 < 1213549642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utter. win. < 1213549647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, that's wrong < 1213549650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1213549654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1213549657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if two files end up with exactly the same set of tags, how do you distinguish them? < 1213549658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008/*,/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549660 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right? < 1213549660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008/*&/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549662 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: they couldn't < 1213549668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since tags would include their inode and similar < 1213549671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: pretty much < 1213549678 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1213549679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a case of operator precedence < 1213549693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1213549693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/created/2008/*),/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't need &, really < 1213549702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's also correct < 1213549703 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gun can be pointed at whole new feet, it seems < 1213549705 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too uncommon, ais523 < 1213549710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, will be fine < 1213549733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, you've put the parens on the wrong side of , < 1213549743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ahh < 1213549748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, we need one more operator then < 1213549750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about $ < 1213549751 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like haskell < 1213549757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008/*,(/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf)/* < 1213549761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008/*$/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's what I was using & for < 1213549779 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1213549779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does the , include an implied / < 1213549785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1213549789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1213549791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do we make tagged "home" the same as untagged "home" < 1213549792 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we even need / < 1213549797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your way's more elegant < 1213549804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i do believe that saying: 'home' tagged with anything < 1213549806 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make much sense < 1213549807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but incapable of emulating a standard UNIX filesystem < 1213549812 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a load of those 'home's will mean nothing < 1213549818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: as in, what if I want a dir called "home"? < 1213549820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think we should think about backwards compatibility < 1213549823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: directories don't exist < 1213549828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right < 1213549832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't imply / < 1213549832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm thinking of backward compatibility < 1213549838 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't < 1213549841 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is too strange to < 1213549855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008/*&/user/ais523,home/documents,pdf/* < 1213549859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that < 1213549861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1213549876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where documents is a tag I've defined myself, in that example < 1213549886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't define tags < 1213549888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use them < 1213549893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1213549896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they automagically exist < 1213549902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that that means "documents with ais523's interpretation" < 1213549909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213549930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably, you'd make /user/ais523,home/documents tagged with /documents < 1213549936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or /data/documents, whatever the OS calls them) < 1213549954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes < 1213549972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: am I the only one who desperately wants to use a system where _EVERYTHING_ is this tag system, like, right now? < 1213549974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could also be written /created/2008/*&/user/ais523,documents,pdf/* < 1213549978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no < 1213549982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1213549988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why has nobody thought of this before? < 1213549994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of non-heirarchical FS' < 1213549996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not to this degree < 1213549999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably someone has but hasn't been bothered to implement it < 1213550002 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not one that leaves the idea of an FS behiind < 1213550005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes EVERYTHING in the tag system < 1213550041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mine would be backwards-compatible too < 1213550049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so systems that only knew about FSs would still work < 1213550069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of the same way that DOS programs which only understand short filenames nevertheless run on 32-bit Windows < 1213550088 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if EVERYTHING is in the tag system, you can kiss native compatibility goodbye < 1213550093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build an emulation layer < 1213550100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is only truly amazing if it's unique < 1213550122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the emulation layer could just use my translations < 1213550134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prefix underscores to filenames or something like that if there are clashes < 1213550139 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it occurs to me that file lookups are TC < 1213550142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nevertheless everything will be a tag < 1213550150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: really? I can't think of a way to do a loop < 1213550164 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, but there'll be some tag somewhere a long the line that lets you < 1213550165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're boolean search operations < 1213550165 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just know it < 1213550176 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if processes, and EVERYTHING are tags < 1213550188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, * and symlinks allow loops as it is < 1213550199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would be done here wouldn't even be symlinks, or even hardlinks < 1213550201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like be-links < 1213550206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where two things are the same things < 1213550209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but written different ways < 1213550302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, this is starting to remind me of Feather again < 1213550306 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1213550332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: here's a good reason for , to imply /: < 1213550340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a versioned tagsystem < 1213550359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where, say, if a 'file' was deleted, it would no longer be accessible except by using versioning tags < 1213550375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could still find it using wildcard prefixes < 1213550420 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh < 1213550424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it removes too much flexibility < 1213550427 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things become hideously verbose < 1213550429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1213550437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write your pdf thing with it < 1213550444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDFs in your documents tag in your home created 2008 < 1213550447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it looks the same < 1213550452 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it < 1213550453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was considering pdf to be a global tag < 1213550460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but the 'documents' tag was local < 1213550462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ais523 < 1213550465 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be a good way to copy a file? < 1213550466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes < 1213550469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, has one-sided scoping < 1213550474 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeck < 1213550483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not really < 1213550491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you want to factor in lots of global tags < 1213550497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your meaning, you just change the last , to . < 1213550504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's ais523's pdf tag < 1213550523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, say I've defined documents and pdf tags < 1213550549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be /user/ais523/documents.pdf/* < 1213550563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas /user/ais523/documents,pdf/* uses the global pdf tag < 1213550590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /user/ais523/documents&pdf/* selects either my documents tag, or any PDF file < 1213550594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the last isn't particularly usful < 1213550600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should be ,.pdf < 1213550607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,type/pdf probably < 1213550611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1213550613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1213550614 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1213550615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1213550616 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1213550617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with an abbreviation < 1213550619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, I don't like , implying / < 1213550620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1213550624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems inelegant < 1213550627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,mimetype/application/pdf < 1213550645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, use . then < 1213550646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't < 1213550650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented , as shorthand < 1213550660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'll come up so often < 1213550697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shorthand for add ( at the start of the string and replace the , with )./ < 1213550704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that comes up a lot < 1213550723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, at this rate it's probably best for us both to invent things in our own systems < 1213550736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see which one looks better < 1213550738 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, they're close enough < 1213550743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1213550746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,/ < 1213550746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, permissions could be done like this too < 1213550748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is trivial enough < 1213550752 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just let , not imply it < 1213550752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is ,* < 1213550754 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get more elegance < 1213550766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: , is a typing aid < 1213550771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it's a terrible one < 1213550771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use it for what it's usually used for < 1213550775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a useful one < 1213550781 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it impacts the elegance of the system < 1213550851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: let me come up with some paths in my system to see how much I use the three operators < 1213550916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, wait < 1213550925 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't /* superflouous? < 1213550932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user/ais523,home/documents == /user/ais523,home/documents/* < 1213550935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/user/ais523/esoteric/intercal,home.(/apps/darcs/repos) < 1213550942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not exactly < 1213550946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is the tag itself < 1213550949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is all things tagged with ti < 1213550951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ti/it < 1213550958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/\// < 1213550959 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a tag is defined by its tags, and the tags tagged with it < 1213550970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, I'd say /* is wrong < 1213550976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you normally need to distinugish between a directory and the files in it < 1213550986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but let's pretend you don't < 1213550988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. suppose I want to tag a file with /user/ais523/mynewtag < 1213550998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's different from tagging a file with all tags tagged by /user/ais523/mynewtag < 1213551005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just wait < 1213551005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. tagging it with /user/ais523/mynewtag/* < 1213551010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/created/2008&/user/ais523,home/documents < 1213551019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much more elegant without the /*s < 1213551034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's just a scoping problem < 1213551059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what does the 'home' tag even mean? < 1213551064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should mean 'stored on the home partition' < 1213551072 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't think about low level details like that < 1213551078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean semantically < 1213551080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does /home means < 1213551089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means back this up preferentially over other things < 1213551093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it means a user's home < 1213551094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/means/mean/ < 1213551100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that concept doesn't exist now < 1213551106 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes it does < 1213551115 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the home tag is how you differenciate a user from their file storage < 1213551117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, is what important the fact that it's in my home < 1213551125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that it's mine, and it's home? < 1213551136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say we're working on something together < 1213551145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be great to tag it with something like /user/ais523.ehird/ESO < 1213551150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1213551155 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd go in /projects < 1213551157 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1213551164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, things that we both tag with that < 1213551165 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and projects beloning to ais523 would be tagged /user/ais523 < 1213551174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that'd go in /projects < 1213551176 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and projects beloning to everyone in the group ESO would be tagged /group/ESO/* < 1213551176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you miss the point < 1213551188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes in /projects AND /user/ais523 AND /user/ehird < 1213551194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should also go in /home < 1213551203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the semantics that has for backup, etc < 1213551207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've reached the flaws of this system < 1213551220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to think that /user/ais523/tag should mean "tag as defined by /user/ais523" < 1213551238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, your meaning of home is probably a good one to prevent problems < 1213551242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I think it should be called tags < 1213551249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, things I define < 1213551252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than things that tag me < 1213551255 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, I think we're kind of reaching a mental block < 1213551257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1213551259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this huge unifying thing in front of us < 1213551261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes everything elegant and fitting < 1213551263 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1213551269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because our minds are so stubborn, like all humans' minds < 1213551273 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fact that paths superficially look similar < 1213551277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our minds are blocking it out < 1213551294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't think that's what it is < 1213551305 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? Because whenever I reach one of them stuff like this always happens < 1213551316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of get how this new system works < 1213551323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just having problems trying to figure out how it's organised < 1213551355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, I think, distinguishing between a tag as an object (something you can do things with) and a tag as a subject (i.e. it tags things) < 1213551356 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe a slight break will help < 1213551364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I just figured out a crazily silly javascript workflow < 1213551563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interested? < 1213551565 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very silly < 1213551573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moderately interested < 1213551578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what it is < 1213551603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://ecmascript4.com/ <-- a python program that converts most of the stable parts of ECMAScript 4 to regular browser-accepting JS < 1213551608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the crazy idea is < 1213551615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set up a workflow that automatically compiles them (obviously) < 1213551621 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, write the serverside using Rhino < 1213551627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mozilla's java implementation of JS < 1213551633 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do this because it can interface with java libs < 1213551644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so write ecmascript4 that uses rhino to interface a java webserver, etc < 1213551652 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, write the clientside in ecmascript4 too < 1213551654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, < 1213551663 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a 'common' part which contains ecmascript4 for client and server side < 1213551665 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all automatically compiled < 1213551666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1213551693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1213551710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way things are going, you're going to end up combining clientside and serverside somehow < 1213551712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives me an idea < 1213551721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website that doesn't run on a server at all < 1213551732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is entirely client-side < 1213551736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: been done < 1213551738 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so many times before < 1213551742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever a new client visits it, they actually get the information from the other clients < 1213551749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no server involved < 1213551755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the information flying backwards and forwards < 1213551766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ever nobody's visiting the website, it simply ceases to exist < 1213551773 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't do p2p communication with JS < 1213551775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1213551782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, you'd have to use Java < 1213551787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eek < 1213551792 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything, Flash, please ;) < 1213551795 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least flash is stable < 1213551804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make it a 1x1 px flash that is off the screen < 1213551809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just make it interface with JS (it can do that) < 1213551809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, personally I'd say "anything but Silverlight" < 1213551810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to build the page < 1213551815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quite < 1213551820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1213551820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's security model is much better than Flash's, though < 1213551826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my idea after seeing http://280slides.com/Editor/ runs on 'Objective-J' < 1213551826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I have Java but not Flash installed < 1213551828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I told you about < 1213551843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, essentially, JS with Objective-C class & method sending syntax < 1213551850 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some functions & constants like objective-c < 1213551857 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very very crazy < 1213551859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps not that logical < 1213551861 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can actually understand it < 1213551866 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1213551867 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why they did it < 1213551909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause http://280slides.com/Editor/1213027183/Document.j doesn't actually look all that bat < 1213551910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bad < 1213551919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but then I thought, wait a minute, ecmascript4 has all of this < 1213551929 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice classes, strong typing, good error handling, all of that < 1213551935 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I came up with my Evil Idea. < 1213551938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the first thing I noticed was that it was typed < 1213551948 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: optionally, though < 1213551972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: select the Structural types example < 1213551974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ADTs! < 1213551976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like haskell < 1213551982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slightly disappointed that it has classes, though < 1213551987 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has parametized types, like Java, too, check that example < 1213551991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I prefer prototype inheritance < 1213551992 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1213551995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks really nice < 1213551996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it would have been too much to ask for them to use the IO or Self method < 1213552006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's Io < 1213552006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not IO < 1213552010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1213552014 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, check out hte Typed higher-order functions thing < 1213552016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let me try opening it in FF < 1213552020 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary but it looks like C# :-P < 1213552025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the examples dropdown doesn't work in Konqueror < 1213552028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it has namespaces too < 1213552034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and union types.. < 1213552039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is var test : (String|int|double) = "test";) < 1213552054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and nullable types, whereby you can specify with a type what can contain a null and what not < 1213552059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. Java I'm Looking At You) < 1213552072 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a typed browser api, too < 1213552087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that's the same for all browsers? < 1213552100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's just the w3c dom. < 1213552105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which everything but IE4 supports, really. < 1213552115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :document.all < 1213552141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't use document.all. < 1213552148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1213552152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nowadays, anyway < 1213552156 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE supports the regular dom too, you know < 1213552160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I translated my old programs from it < 1213552172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's what Microsoft teach, in the hope that people will end up writing IE-only programs < 1213552191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I learnt the DOM originally by writing reflective JS programs to look at it < 1213552199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *used to teach < 1213552199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays I generally use the Mozilla docs, which are pretty good < 1213552207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: they've fixed that? < 1213552208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good < 1213552215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're getting better < 1213552220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: in some cases < 1213552224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IE team aren't evil, from what I've read of their blog < 1213552225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're confused < 1213552227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit misguided sometimes < 1213552232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the employees aren't evil < 1213552232 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1213552233 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, yes a bit confused < 1213552245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they just need some time to catch up < 1213552253 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a bit slow, though, admittedly < 1213552260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the company itself may have become sentient < 1213552267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is doing evil things against the wishes of its employees < 1213552269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1213552282 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points ais523 at the Ubersoft comic
< 1213552282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LOL! Oh lord this ecmascript 4 compiler sucks hard < 1213552287 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[It is licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 < 1213552287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, its management structure is sufficiently complicated that I wouldn't be surprised if it was TC < 1213552287 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1213552287 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically means you can use it freely for non-commercial purposes.]] < 1213552294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creative Commons almost = FAIL by itself < 1213552299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but creative commons NONCOMMERCIAL? < 1213552302 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dies laughing
< 1213552307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, CC for code < 1213552310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's wrong < 1213552318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a moment I was wondering why you were so agitated < 1213552323 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CC's NC licenses aren't even OSI or DFSG or anything < 1213552330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1213552335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unacceptable < 1213552341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more to the point, they don't take into account the fact that code can be compiled < 1213552342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh and the translator doesn't even include the source < 1213552347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a load of *.pyc files < 1213552349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bytecode) < 1213552362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CC-by-sa can almost survive for interpreted languages < 1213552364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1213552370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for compiled languages it just fails < 1213552406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh lol: < 1213552408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[(Sorry for the parentheses, haven't figured out how to enter HTML in blogger)]] < 1213552413 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't even know html entities.. < 1213552481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1213552495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I justify my company's work by saying that we're a service company, not a product company) < 1213552506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: May I humbly suggest using § instead? < 1213552508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more elegant. < 1213552509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: what does your company do? < 1213552516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's harder to type < 1213552522 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no it's not < 1213552530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what sort of keyboard are you using? < 1213552534 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apple < 1213552535 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-5 ;) < 1213552544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :` is on my keyboard, without even pressing modifier keys < 1213552547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to the left of 1 < 1213552553 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we get all the funnest modifier keys on alt, you see. < 1213552560 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1213552562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode chars < 1213552567 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ø,˚,¯˝ð•ª¥œª´•¶º•˚ª•‚—·°̄·° ̑̆̂̄°‡‡‡̋̂̆̀ < 1213552576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and alt-5 switches to the fifth tab in most programs running on Ubuntu < 1213552589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mess with the keyboard shortcuts if they don't follow the Ubuntu standard < 1213552594 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we make stuff that processes tax forms < 1213552600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do Debian with their keyboard standards < 1213552607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notably the backspace/delete thing in Emacs < 1213552613 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spend much of my time: < 1213552681 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing Java that takes in Excel spreadsheets and produces xml that it uses to modify xml that specifies how another java program should produce some more xml that processes xml < 1213552711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: that sounds like you should submit it to thedailywtf < 1213552739 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not bad though < 1213552747 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the coice of technologies < 1213552751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers finding that OpenOffice's scripting language was so awful that I just went and parsed .ods with a Perl program I wrote myself instead
< 1213552775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like OpenDocument format, because I managed to figure out how it worked even without docs, just from the content of the file itself < 1213552807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: is it worth trying to decompile their code? < 1213552811 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213552815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python's thing is a stack machine < 1213552820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1213552821 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you won't get much useful < 1213552827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decompiled Java tends to be very useful < 1213552832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so since ECMAScript 4 is out of the question, what other language should I hybridise :P < 1213552841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Smalltalk! < 1213552849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: objective-c is basically c+smalltalk < 1213552850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines a Smalltalk to JS compiler
< 1213552855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so objective-j is basically js+smalltalk < 1213552857 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes away for breakfast and radio 7.
< 1213552874 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1213552893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: either that, or just wait for a Feather interp with the required features to spontaneously pop into existence < 1213552905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooooh < 1213552907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that's ridiculously unlikely, which is why bootstraps are generally needed < 1213552908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather in JS < 1213552912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work really well < 1213552918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you could share interps you make with it < 1213552921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, if you can do continuations easily, it would work well < 1213552926 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1213552928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuation passing style < 1213552931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS has all the other features needed < 1213552941 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have a new project: JS -> CPS JS < 1213552953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about a lambda + call/cc interp in C < 1213552956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be part of Feathejs < 1213552963 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Feathers? Feathejs? Get it?) < 1213552964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose only purpose was to optimise for the operations Feather did < 1213552968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: naww < 1213552972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS will be more fun < 1213552977 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i'll go make a feathejs.git < 1213552979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I'm thinking about computational order here < 1213552997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the good thing about feather in JS is that it'll be totally detached from traditional consoles < 1213553004 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll be the dom < 1213553008 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the downside < 1213553010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be the dom < 1213553016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major unusual operation in Feather is giving an argument to a continuation which is almost identical to what the call/cc returned in the first place < 1213553046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be optimised to prevent having to rerun the whole program since the call/cc, in many cases < 1213553055 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what should I write js2cps in do you think? < 1213553057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS? :-P < 1213553066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS is not a bad choice < 1213553094 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1213553097 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the browser itself should do the cps < 1213553103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll load the cps translator < 1213553107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make a request to the feathejs source < 1213553109 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then run the cps translator < 1213553111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then eval < 1213553121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it depends on how client-side you're doing things < 1213553125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like hobix, for instance < 1213553141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, for feathejs it just seems RIGHT < 1213553144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1213553150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will have a server-side for sharing feather images, though < 1213553154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be hilariously inefficient, though < 1213553158 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1213553159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it needs to be client-side < 1213553160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is Feather < 1213553164 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1213553169 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sharing app will be server-side < 1213553175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't want people tampering with that, it's dangerous ;) < 1213553180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: because say if you're writing a feather interp in JS < 1213553182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the actual thing that saves it will be writteni n feather < 1213553196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're compiling into JS-with-continuations < 1213553202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that then needs to be compiled into JS-with-CPS to run < 1213553210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, a Feather interp in Feather is trivial < 1213553215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has eval < 1213553220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, almost < 1213553224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is: < 1213553233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most languages have eval so that you can build code at runtime < 1213553239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather has eval so that you can modify it < 1213553256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, modifying eval does change the syntax of the language < 1213553296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think we should write js2cps first < 1213553299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then worry about feathejs < 1213553299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213553300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213553320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shall we just call feathejs ... feather? < 1213553330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems official enough if we're both working on it < 1213553330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1213553335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's on eso-std.org < 1213553338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feathejs is a mouthful < 1213553339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rare to call the interp the same thing as the lang < 1213553342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1213553343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1213553343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it feathers < 1213553345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a compromise < 1213553346 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1213553349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's terribly common < 1213553355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby, Python, Perl. < 1213553357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, more commonly the lang is named after the interp < 1213553359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't go on about Perl vs perl.) < 1213553364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes < 1213553367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. those three cases < 1213553378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when the lang's named first, I reckon the interp should be called something else < 1213553383 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feathers will just make people mix up feather and feathers < 1213553387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of multiple feather interps < 1213553390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being possible < 1213553391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright then < 1213553393 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feathejs < 1213553411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, feather images /are/ portable between interps < 1213553422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although reloading them on the same interp is much faster than porting them from one interp to another < 1213553443 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, who should own /home/feathejs? < 1213553446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho:feathejs? < 1213553457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1213553459 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-7.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213553736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git clone ssh://eso-std.org/home/feathejs/feathejs.git < 1213553748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one file there, and it's the runtime library for js2cps < 1213553786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a short runtime library < 1213553807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that return looks wrogn < 1213553810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wrogn/wrong/ < 1213553812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is CPS, right? < 1213553820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's fully correct, sorry < 1213553823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you finish it off like this < 1213553828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main(function (x) { return x; }); < 1213553836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, 'return' is an optimization hint < 1213553844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means: 'this is the end of this call stack thingy' < 1213553858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Chicken scheme compiler does CPS conversion and it does his < 1213553861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's going to be processed by js2cps too? < 1213553864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1213553883 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1213553883 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1213553884 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's fully correct, just trust me. < 1213553888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1213553892 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're still using the js stack < 1213553896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will run out of it eventually < 1213553898 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where the wonderful < 1213553908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :super-delicious BAKER TRAMPOLINE THINGY WHAT'SITSCALLED < 1213553917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes in. Basically, in C, it's a setjmp/longjmp. < 1213553920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPS conversion is function(a,b) { /* code */ return c; /* code */} into function(cont,a,b) { /* code */ cont(c); /* code */} < 1213553923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you go back to the latest stack frame < 1213553928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1213553931 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's to return cont(c); < 1213553944 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should read up on why you should do that. < 1213553945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, for tail-recursion in the JS interp itself? < 1213553972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, pretty much < 1213553974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just correct < 1213553981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, basically < 1213553984 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we still use the js stack < 1213553985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably written CPS never needs to do returns, but they can be useful to avoid running out of stack < 1213553989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we keep the continuations along < 1213553994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the top stack element is useful < 1213553998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213553998 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the others just take up space < 1213554000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we do is < 1213554000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213554007 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we let it grow, until we have, say, 100 elements < 1213554013 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, we throw an exception down < 1213554020 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the information of our locals, current function, etc < 1213554028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, the trampoline at the bottom catches it, and reinitiates the call < 1213554033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, the exception only needs to throw a continuation and the argument to give it < 1213554036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it grows to 100 again, it drops down and bounces again < 1213554039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, yes < 1213554048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, this is the best way to do js cps < 1213554064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why the return? < 1213554080 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, you're making no sense again < 1213554084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes the trampoline
< 1213554103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you wouldn't need to write return in return cont(c) if you're exception-throwing downwards < 1213554108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because none of those returns ever happen < 1213554148 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes they do < 1213554153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't reach 100 stack elements < 1213554157 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides < 1213554159 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do happen < 1213554164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1213554167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh.. < 1213554171 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making no sense. < 1213554172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1213554184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the end of a function is never reached in CPS < 1213554191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always call a continuation right at the end < 1213554192 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it is. when the program is finished. < 1213554202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: even then you just continuation out to an exit < 1213554212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. you're wrong. yes, that is pure cps < 1213554215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in JS's case, throw an exception < 1213554216 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not how it's done mostly. < 1213554233 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read up on the chicken scheme compiler if you want to know more, but it'll become self-evident when cps2js evolves < 1213554239 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*js2cps < 1213554242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I've just realised that my IOCCC thing I showed you was in continuation-passing style < 1213554259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the continuations were defined elsewhere < 1213554291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I see how exploiting the returns could be useful as an optimisation in some cases < 1213554296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213554297 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1213554303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't needed < 1213554315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is just going to keep repeating that as he's explained it to the best of his ability
< 1213554324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't understand it, well, you'll just have to wait until the code takes shape I guess < 1213554329 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213554334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't explained it at all, just asserted it repeatedly < 1213554390 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've pointed you to more information < 1213554394 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Chicken compiler) < 1213554421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: if I write my own code that doesn't use return, will you concede that it isn't needed? < 1213554426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is not needed < 1213554429 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is far more useful < 1213554435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far more? < 1213554437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213554451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then it's an optimisation, like I said < 1213554454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213554456 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an optimization < 1213554463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying c is an optimization of brainfuck < 1213554465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not true < 1213554488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: would you say that PEBBLE's an optimisation of brainfuck? < 1213554528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213554564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I would < 1213554577 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, Narcissus (JS in JS) has a JS parser in JS < 1213554581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which simplifies our work greatly < 1213554590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was wondering where we'd get one of those < 1213554599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, how many people told them to just use eval? < 1213554606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1213554611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's buried in the mozilla cvs < 1213554618 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I bet anyone who found it wouldn't be that dumb < 1213554634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh and I think it only works in mozilla < 1213554637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares, honesty < 1213554638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*honestly < 1213554649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what, mozilla-specific JS? < 1213554655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not working in WebKit, for instance? < 1213554655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, __proto__ and stuff < 1213554658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be a problem < 1213554660 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit does __proto__ < 1213554661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe < 1213554663 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1213554674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opera doesn't though < 1213554675 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nor does ie < 1213554686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, this'll only be usable with FF3 or a webkit nightly < 1213554688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does __proto__ do? < 1213554692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since those are both blazing fast < 1213554697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prototypical inheritance confusing stuff < 1213554707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, the version of Konqueror I've got is pretty fast on complex JS < 1213554713 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, sorry < 1213554716 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might seem like it < 1213554723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but FF3 isn't, at least on Linux, because it has disk access problems < 1213554734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a release-blocking bug that they're looking into at the moment < 1213554734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here's a comparison: FF3 can do what Safari3 lagged the system and took 10+ seconds to do, < 1213554737 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in about 3 seconds < 1213554742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they've fixed that.. < 1213554749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's at release candidate 3 now < 1213554758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I only have rc1 over here < 1213554759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 3? < 1213554766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wasn't rc2 good enough? < 1213554776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: rc3 just changed on mac os x < 1213554778 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what they did < 1213554784 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mac specific bug I think < 1213554799 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213554818 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you mind if I depend on jquery < 1213554826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is jquery? < 1213554845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a tiny, tiny JS library that makes DOM manipulation a cinch < 1213554845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jquery.com/ < 1213554848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very popular < 1213554859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does stuff chained < 1213554864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means all the methods return self < 1213554868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful in practice < 1213554885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bonus points - if we use jQuery we can use jQuery UI - http://ui.jquery.com/ < 1213554891 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also a pain in the ass to work with when making big complicated programs. :) < 1213554893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is some WEB TWO POINT OH-style gui widgets for jquery < 1213554898 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be useful for feather apps < 1213554901 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the class browser < 1213554904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: bullcrap < 1213554911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so :) < 1213554912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just doesn't do anything but dom manipulation < 1213554914 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's by design < 1213554932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, you need a proper separation < 1213554938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be useful for writing IO commands < 1213554945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the class browser itself would be written in Feather < 1213554951 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, of course < 1213554955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ideally the IO commands would be the same between interps < 1213554955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean we would interface jquery ui into feather < 1213554971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you would make the jquery UI available as IO commands that Feather could use < 1213554978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'IO commands'? < 1213554980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean classes, right < 1213554985 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because jQuery UI is a class library < 1213554987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: IO commands are lower-level < 1213554988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we'd expose them as objects < 1213554992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expose them via classes, though < 1213554992 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I don't like that < 1213554999 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have a proper ffi < 1213555006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: they have to exist even if classes don't for some reasona < 1213555017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, then you can't use jQuery UI < 1213555019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big whoop < 1213555021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FFIs are kind-of difficult with a language which can change its paradigm at will < 1213555036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes you can, you just reimplement it in Feather < 1213555041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now see, this is why i find it absolutely hilarious that people like JQuery < 1213555044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how introspective Smalltalk is? < 1213555045 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in their little demo page < 1213555050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is worse < 1213555051 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and half their shit doesnt even work < 1213555052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much worse < 1213555055 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: uh, yes it does < 1213555064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no it doesn't < 1213555066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: actually, it didn't for me when I tried on Konqueror < 1213555073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, jQuery UI? < 1213555078 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jQuery UI is in preprepreprepreprperpeprepreprepalpha, basically. < 1213555079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example on their homepage < 1213555093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WFM < 1213555105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did nothing when I tried it < 1213555120 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WFM < 1213555140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was just explaining what symptomps I sawa < 1213555143 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now im not saying _everything_ in JQuery doesn't work < 1213555158 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but man, so much of it is buggy its not even funny < 1213555168 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i don't think you've actually used jquery. < 1213555169 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be wrong. < 1213555211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, i've never used it because every time i try to, in the DEMOS, it fails. < 1213555225 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like scriptaculous < 1213555229 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works for me and tons of other people too, including some of the most-visisted websites. < 1213555234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sure it does, tusho < 1213555237 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may be using w3m or something. < 1213555246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the demos are working for me, sort of, in Konqueror < 1213555249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some things go wrong < 1213555251 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesnt matter to ME that it works for YOU < 1213555258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the DOM screws up a bit on some of them < 1213555269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: konqueror isn't really that good, anyway. < 1213555275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, have you seen how badly anagolf screws up on Konqueror when you use the back button? < 1213555292 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a wonderful software development adage, about bug fixing < 1213555313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about how a coder should never EVER say something like "Well it works fine here!" < 1213555315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, several in fact, which one are you thinking of? < 1213555336 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesnt MATTER that it works fine on his computer, the only thing that ever matters is that it works fine on the user's computer < 1213555337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: do you know about Schrodingbugs? < 1213555352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: JQuery UI's messing up too badly for me to be usable < 1213555365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: jquery ui is in pre-alpha < 1213555369 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, remember < 1213555372 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those bugs that result from not collapsing wave functions? :p < 1213555374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that explains why it isn't usable < 1213555379 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feathejs will be impossible slow on konq and everything else, ais523 < 1213555389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FF3 and nightly WebKits are the only things it'll be usable on, I suspect < 1213555394 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because of the nature of feather < 1213555398 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implementing it in something as slow as JS < 1213555407 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i love it man < 1213555409 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Supports IE 6.0+, FF 2+, Safari 3.1+, Opera 9.0+." < 1213555409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work on anything else < 1213555410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, they're bits of code that works fine for everyone, but then someone looks at the source and sees that they never should have worked in the first place, then suddenly they break for everyone < 1213555412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for JQuery UI < 1213555421 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's pre-alpha. < 1213555428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will support that when they actually officially release. < 1213555429 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh well, i'm using Safari 3.1.1 < 1213555435 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, where does it say it's prealpha < 1213555438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: and yes, I know that doesn't make any sense, but some people swear they exist on occasion < 1213555450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: tusho's just assuming that it's prealpha because it isn't working properly < 1213555455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i'm not < 1213555458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse he his < 1213555460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1213555465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ, no I'm not < 1213555483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ui.jquery.com/functional_demos/#ui.dialog <-- tusho: does that seriously work for you? < 1213555484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's 12, so what can you expect, really < 1213555485 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1213555505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: works for me < 1213555506 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213555511 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no template file. < 1213555516 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the dialog one doesn't < 1213555518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same error here too < 1213555522 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, guess what, they just launched the new site < 1213555528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, yesterday. < 1213555554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, they're up to the 1.5 version < 1213555559 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means its post post post alpha :P < 1213555562 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its post RC. < 1213555581 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isnt alpha stuff, tusho < 1213555586 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, sorry, you're wrong < 1213555588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 changed a lot < 1213555592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't stable < 1213555605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's not the library itself that's particuarly unstable, it's THE SITE. < 1213555606 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i dont think this version is 1.5 < 1213555608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site launched may 5th. < 1213555609 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're working on 1.5 < 1213555617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :___it's the site___ < 1213555648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if ais523 numbers were calculated using chains of people who had ever agreed with me, the results would be quite different, I expect < 1213555649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, they're on 1.5 < 1213555673 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: _THE._ _SITE._ < 1213555674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, ressig is a fucking idiot. < 1213555684 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1213555688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the site, tusho. < 1213555692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resig doesn't even work on jquery ui < 1213555697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was totally uncalled for < 1213555714 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, tusho, you're a bit of a ressig whore arent you < 1213555717 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1213555729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i simply recommended using jquery and jquery ui < 1213555735 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then defended it from incorrect criticism < 1213555746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now resig is a fucking idiot and I'm a 'resig whore'? Yeah, fuck you. < 1213555747 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*correct criticism. < 1213555751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: stop trying to wind ehird up < 1213555758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though e deserves it < 1213555759 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i dont even have to try < 1213555763 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just have to disagree with him < 1213555769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bit at the end was a bit uncalled-for < 1213555772 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"got better things to do" < 1213555773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, 12 year olds are bitchy < 1213555793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /quit rather than /part? < 1213555811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I haven't seen em that angry before < 1213555826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all because _I_ don't like JQuery < 1213555863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, he IS a resig whore. or a jquery whore. or whatever you wanna call him. < 1213555870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what or who is resig, anyway? < 1213555879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy who developed jquery < 1213555903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the UI stuff seems very different from the rest of it < 1213555911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gets lots of praise for building JQuery and everything i've seen that uses JQuery extensively doesn't work < 1213555922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I can see why that would annoy you < 1213555928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if ehird's logreading
< 1213555935 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1213555940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is no, actually < 1213555953 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt matter < 1213555954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but e'll come back and read the logs eventually < 1213555968 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, hes 12 years old. you cant expect him to act maturely < 1213555985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's generally bad manners to say how old someone else is on the Internet < 1213555994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COPPA and all that, it can lead to trouble < 1213555995 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE said how old he was the other day. < 1213555997 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in the logs. < 1213556001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but... < 1213556002 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its public information. < 1213556004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing < 1213556011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the principle of the thing < 1213556016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my morals are weird < 1213556019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least according to ehird < 1213556026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to agree with him here < 1213556031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213556035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of people do < 1213556040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon my morals are weird too < 1213556050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird started trying to find loopholes in them, but morals don't work like that < 1213556069 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do. PEOPLE don't work like that tho. ;) < 1213556088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if there are loopholes in my morals it's because the words I expressed them in are wrong < 1213556181 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213556252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking for loopholes in a set of morals just defeats the point of morals < 1213556306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no doubt, though, ehird's morals are Turing-complete, operate like a nomic, and have FFIs to twelve different languages < 1213556318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they didn't before I said that they do now < 1213556327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought that 12 year old thing was a joke someone had made while he wasn't here...
< 1213556335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is < 1213556396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*he = oerjan < 1213556401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not < 1213556406 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho said it himself. < 1213556408 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numerous times. < 1213556424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you've said it multiple times < 1213556430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about tusho emself, though < 1213556432 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive repeated it multiple times ;) < 1213556439 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the logs, ais. < 1213556443 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213556446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1213556447 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho how old are you. < 1213556457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213556462 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1213556468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: really, that's not funny < 1213556488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i only asked him his age < 1213556497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, that's not a wise thing to do < 1213556502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given the circumstances < 1213556506 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? am i going to break him? < 1213556509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been the reason e left in the first place < 1213556514 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213556523 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph. my message didn't get through < 1213556526 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes they do / oerjan: no it wasn't < 1213556527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1213556529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: AFAIR doing that's illegal in America, anyway < 1213556538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, are you serious? tusho isnt a fragile piece of china < 1213556544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, no its not illegal to ask someone their age < 1213556550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is if they're under 13 < 1213556556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you seem to think e is < 1213556565 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not illegal if theyre under 13 < 1213556566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1213556587 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get such a silly idea < 1213556596 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you cant ask how old someone is if they're under 13 < 1213556597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be serious < 1213556598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit unfamiliar with US law, not being American, I'll look it up < 1213556613 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213556628 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ais thinks its illegal to ask someone their age if they're under 13. < 1213556639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking it up < 1213556641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unwise anyway < 1213556643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not illegal < 1213556653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it unwise, ey? < 1213556653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clear it up since you're not shutting up about it: yes, i'm 12, no, responding to everything I do with "oh but he's 12, you can't expect him to be reasonable!!1" is not a clever idea, because it's stupid and an invalid argument. and also my age is irrelevant. < 1213556655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1213556668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, tusho is right here < 1213556676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently logreading, so I was wrong < 1213556689 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes right that his age is irrelevant, or it would be if it wasn't clearly a factor in his illogical arguments. < 1213556719 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, really? im looking at the site, seeing bugs, and he says i'm not seeing bugs? lets be serious here < 1213556728 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either its because hes 12 years old < 1213556736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or its because hes mentally retarded < 1213556739 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213556744 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213556745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, it's because e uses a different browser < 1213556751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but thats not what he said < 1213556756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didnt say "well i dont see it" < 1213556761 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said "no YOURE not seeeing it" < 1213556786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, COPPA sec. 1303 (a) (1) debatably bans asking for personal information from people you suspect are under 13 < 1213556792 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213556797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not a lawyer, therefore am not sure < 1213556803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, unless you're an expert in reality manipulation, or the logs are forged, I absolutely did not < 1213556804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213556812 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmfao haha < 1213556814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, e didn't, on that < 1213556821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually could we do a compromise and say you are _both_ mentally retarded for continuing this quarreling? < 1213556838 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"augur: uh, yes it does" < 1213556843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, that's not a compromise, a compromise would be to say they're 50% wrong each < 1213556854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's past 7 on a Sunday, so I have to go < 1213556856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye everyone < 1213556857 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is TOO a compromise < 1213556866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope the flame war's gone by the time I get back here on Monday < 1213556868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1213556886 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oerjan, whats your esolang of choice < 1213556898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be unlambda < 1213556967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1213557022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring. :p < 1213557087 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean REAL esolang, not just combinatorial calculus < 1213557615 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you read unlambda or do you have to sit and decompose it? < 1213557645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decompose i guess < 1213557684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1213557691 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213557731 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of any esolangs that aren't incomprehensible, they just do things in a very different fashion? < 1213557781 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: intercal < 1213557794 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal is so incomprehensible X.x < 1213557803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you don't know it < 1213557805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I don't) < 1213557809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 can read it fine < 1213557814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean something you can just look at and understand easily, and could be used for real programming < 1213557821 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: prolog could count < 1213557830 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is so fucking esoteric XD < 1213557851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is your answer then < 1213557863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but prolog doesnt do it differently :( < 1213557870 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what < 1213557870 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is older than programs! < 1213557871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1213557875 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, sure < 1213557877 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in spirit anyway < 1213557878 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sure does things differently < 1213557895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah differently than most programming languages < 1213557900 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean REALLY different < 1213557905 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1213557909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dunno then < 1213557913 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is pretty different to me. < 1213557917 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what that would MEAN mind you < 1213558071 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1213558089 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213558089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn interblogs < 1213558102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ping < 1213558108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn interblogs disconnected me! >| < 1213558282 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyones ever set up a big complicated prolog environment < 1213558291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of implications < 1213558295 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then did something like < 1213558307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"find all truths" < 1213558441 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itd be interesting. plug in the laws of physics and let prolog have a go. :p < 1213558467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: find all the truths makes prolog complain < 1213558476 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lameprolog < 1213558484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: < 1213558484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?- X. < 1213558484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ... 1,000,000 ............ 10,000,000 years later < 1213558484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1213558485 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% >> 42 << (last release gives the question) < 1213558492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SWI-Prolog) < 1213558574 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut < 1213558631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it actually does that < 1213558675 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what do you think of the idea that variables can store multiple simultaneous values? < 1213558689 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: quantum arrays < 1213558689 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213558693 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not values in data structures, but just multiple values < 1213558697 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum arrays? lol < 1213558698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1213558706 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im toying with the idea of something like < 1213558710 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5, 3 -> x < 1213558717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == 5 // true < 1213558720 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == 3 // true < 1213558743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you lose a lot of nice properties < 1213558746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could work < 1213558750 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice properties?? < 1213558782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rather like it because you could get a bunch of nice stuff < 1213558789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1213558800 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 2, 3, 4)*2 == 2, 4, 6, 8 < 1213558837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you had a let like thing < 1213558863 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x = 5, 3 < 1213558869 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let z = x such that x > 4 < 1213558879 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would sort of filter < 1213558979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what about mixing it with my inside-out conditionals < 1213558991 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you inside out conditions?? < 1213559010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n == 0 { fact n = 0 } else { if result == n * fact (n-1) { fact n = result } } < 1213559016 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do conditionals to assert things < 1213559022 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x `member` xs { select xs = x } < 1213559062 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not entirely sure how that works, but conditionals on multiple values will simultaneously evaluate for all matching multiple values < 1213559064 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1213559070 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2, 3 < 1213559079 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x > 2, y = x+1 < 1213559083 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y == 3, 4 < 1213559099 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1213559104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x > 4, z = x+1 < 1213559113 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z == undefined < 1213559125 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: im not sure how it works < 1213559126 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that should've been x > 1 obviously :p < 1213559129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope suggested an alternate syntax < 1213559135 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if { fact n = 0 } then n == 0 < 1213559143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes more sense I guess < 1213559153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if { select xs = x } then { x `member` xs } < 1213559155 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what are inside out conditionals, first < 1213559201 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what I just demonstarted < 1213559204 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*demonstrated < 1213559222 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see what that /means/ tho < 1213559231 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see an example of syntax, but i dont know what it does < 1213559310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: nor do I < 1213559314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes sense, really < 1213559315 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1213559323 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it make sense if you dont know what it does? :P < 1213559386 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if { f x && x `member` xs && x `member` ys } then { filter f xs = ys } < 1213559414 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so its implicational < 1213559423 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1213559464 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filter(f, xs, ys) :- member(x,xs), member(x,ys), f(x) < 1213559471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yeah, I likened it to prolog too < 1213559474 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it IS just prolog < 1213559484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, that definition of filter is incorrect ;) < 1213559488 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1213559489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1213559503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it's just quite funny - if you 'unwrap' the conditional from the function body, kinda, you get prolog < 1213559519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its actually exactly prolof < 1213559522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog** < 1213559530 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because prologs :- is a logical implication < 1213559537 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y < 1213559542 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equivalent to < 1213559544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x if y < 1213559550 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if y, then x < 1213559558 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is yours :) < 1213559564 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if { y } then { x } < 1213559603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well yeah < 1213559607 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just find it funny how little you have to chance < 1213559608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*change < 1213559619 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess :) < 1213559666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real reason that theres so little to change is not the "reversal" thing but rather because you dont need to have ys available first < 1213559669 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1213559678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could easily see that being some sort of /assertion/ < 1213559679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1213559694 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if( ... ){ ys_is_a_filter_of_xs = true; } < 1213559704 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1213559718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assert( ys = filter f xs ) < 1213559734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that only works if ys already exists < 1213559741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i dont think you were implying in your version < 1213559905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't no < 1213560150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: So is bollflflllflflflf a dskfsdjflsdfsdf? < 1213560159 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is very important.) < 1213560312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, only folflfblblbbb is. < 1213560315 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213560401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an incredibly common error that people math, tho, and i dont know why < 1213560412 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reconnecting" < 1213560416 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1213560432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that people math? < 1213560480 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1213560507 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1213560569 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1213560579 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1213560717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make < 1213560722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant type ;) < 1213560817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, do you know if prolog can do reverse deductions < 1213560821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1213560826 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if theres some rule < 1213560827 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y < 1213560831 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you assert some y < 1213560837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prolog will say aha, x! < 1213560891 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cant, right? < 1213561123 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: uh < 1213561124 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1213561125 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't < 1213561129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be slightly impossible, i think < 1213561137 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuh < 1213561151 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y is just a biconditional < 1213561156 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x iff y < 1213561221 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can envision some ways to achieve it < 1213561310 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1213561328 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classic example of prolog is the grandparentage thing < 1213561334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just one-way conditional (in prolog anyway) < 1213561341 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1213561353 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its biconditional. to show x, show y < 1213561368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way < 1213561382 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its biconditional. there are no cases where x is true but y is false < 1213561387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where y is true but x is false < 1213561388 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213561394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there can be < 1213561397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1213561401 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have this: < 1213561404 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y < 1213561420 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if y :- true < 1213561422 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then x :- true < 1213561428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have another statement x :- z, say < 1213561440 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no sorry i guess i was thinking more strictly not prolog syntax < 1213561443 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y < 1213561445 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- z < 1213561454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is just one conditional statement spread over two lines < 1213561458 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :- y | z < 1213561491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, in that regard single rules in prolog arent biconditional < 1213561501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well as long as x is an atom < 1213561522 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but prolog systems are biconditional in that all the ORs on the left are part of a larger biconditional statement < 1213561538 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if you have x :- y; x :- z < 1213561550 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then logically thats x iff y or z < 1213561564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you familiar with horn clauses? < 1213561575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they're not that complicated. < 1213561576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213561621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you may be correct when you make the closed world assumption < 1213561624 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you can say its not strictly biconditional since prolog doesn't treat absence as negation < 1213561640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. assuming nothing is true unless it is provable from the given set < 1213561642 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, im assuming the rules you put in are all there is and nothing more ;) < 1213561686 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant run logic backwards to discover new rules :p < 1213561709 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the grandparent example, for instance < 1213561723 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its relatively clear that if I just assert < 1213561730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parent(a,b), parent(b,c) < 1213561738 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its trivial to run the logic backwards and decude < 1213561741 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deduce* < 1213561745 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grandparent(a,c) < 1213561752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i dont ASK ?- grandparent(a,c) < 1213561861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well proof search is possible it just tends to blow up for anything complicated < 1213561871 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? :) < 1213561887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1213561896 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were in #esoteric. uselessness up in the face of complexity is practically the motto of this place < 1213561941 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did i type up? that makes no sense. < 1213562091 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: #haskell are making co-jokes < 1213562206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again? < 1213562215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1213562240 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but are they doing them in cotime < 1213562243 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the question < 1213562246 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a bunch of co-nuts < 1213562257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coconuts < 1213562263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coconuts are just nuts < 1213562272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1213562274 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conuts, on the otherhand < 1213562284 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are nuts that exist in perpendicular time. < 1213562394 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHA < 1213562400 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im listening to macbreak weekly < 1213562416 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and theyre talking about how steve jobs was quite gaunt looking at wwdc < 1213562465 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ihnatko said "it's not that he didn't look good, but... he looked like a vegan" < 1213562959 0 :B|u35un!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213562996 0 :B|u35un!n=BlueSun@dslb-084-056-018-129.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213564296 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213564491 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOM NOM NOM < 1213564517 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: <3 YOU"RE HERE < 1213564524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have so many awesome jsmips ideas. < 1213564536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: For example. I figured how to make it 'TEH FAST'. < 1213564547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compile to JavaScript and use eval(). < 1213564554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far, far faster than interpreting it. < 1213564574 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's on my future agenda, interpretation was just a "is-this-even-feasible?" step. < 1213564574 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Of course, startup goes terribly slowly, but then the program blazes. < 1213564582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, what's better, you can just save the compiled version. < 1213564586 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to compile ELF files directly to JavaScript code and then just include a foo.js < 1213564587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well before you get in too deep.. < 1213564594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1213564598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more intermediate. < 1213564606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it uses the current code < 1213564610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but produces a function on-the-fly at startup < 1213564651 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, not sure what you mean. < 1213564653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Anyway, we don't need mipses even with threads. < 1213564663 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH right < 1213564664 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a MIPS object keep track of its 'children' (threads created in itself) < 1213564672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then make the MIPS object stop its children when it is stopped. < 1213564687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more elegant. < 1213564696 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem isn't controlling the children, that's easy, the problem is context switching. < 1213564711 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You still don't need mipses. < 1213564720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean the global array) < 1213564725 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh duh - yeah, they could all still run. < 1213564731 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slaps head* < 1213564737 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why I thought mipses was necessary for that. < 1213564744 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Because you're a retard? < 1213564748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O wait. < 1213564748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213564760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna go assasinate mips < 1213564760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es < 1213564796 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: And change .stopped = true; into .stop() < 1213564822 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good ol' accessor functions :P < 1213564836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: By the way, I have another speed increase, but it involves basically jiggling about the whole of mips.js < 1213564845 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1213564848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, you're doing everything in the constructor, whereas you should be putting functions and the like on to MIPS.prototype < 1213564853 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Permission to convert 'em all? < 1213564862 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll make MIPS creation faster, and is also 'better' < 1213564886 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free, I'm not particularly used to JavaScript's prototype syntax - I like the system, never liked the syntax, so I never got used to using it :P < 1213564906 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then don't touch the code while I do this < 1213564908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't merge < 1213564908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213565096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: JS just has function scope < 1213565098 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (var i < 1213565100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is misleading < 1213565105 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-220-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213565133 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's true *shrugs* < 1213565314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Shit, I broke it. :P < 1213565338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1213565339 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1213565341 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shocker* < 1213565381 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213565397 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, one of the oklofolk < 1213565427 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kicks js for being stupid
< 1213565453 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@AMarseille-151-1-48-6.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213565466 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kicks tusho for offending the JavaScript gods.
< 1213565469 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1213565503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: wtf zeroArray is not defined < 1213565508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT IS < 1213565574 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hm. < 1213565580 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a great way to speed up performance. < 1213565591 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your include stuff isn't actually needed, all of them can be included in tandem. < 1213565595 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the section < 1213565692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the oklofolk. small blue gnomes living in Finland, in the valley next to the muumins < 1213565709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i confusing with smurfs < 1213565916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ok, now just to fix the mountain of bugs < 1213565916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1213565939 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1213565945 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1213565952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1213565982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1213565988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1213566002 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1213566007 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo < 1213566021 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1213566027 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMNIT OKLOFOK < 1213566033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1213566039 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-c-c-connection reset by peer < 1213566061 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: if I do this < 1213566064 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :function initMIPSIO() { < 1213566066 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mipsio.js < 1213566071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I include mipsio.js in my < 1213566080 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use that function in window.onload < 1213566084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it say it's not defined? < 1213566120 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213566271 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ? < 1213566424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ping < 1213566461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1213566474 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213566490 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ping < 1213566562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ping < 1213566673 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1213566678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1213567136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ping < 1213567209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the strange feeling #esoteric went into a time loop...
< 1213567218 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ping < 1213567224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a slightly imprecise one < 1213567236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John McCain: ping < 1213567244 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213567244 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213567254 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kubrick.freenode.net: ping < 1213567314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping: oerjan < 1213567332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop < 1213567340 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1213567347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rorre < 1213567351 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1213567359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: ping SimonRC < 1213567470 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1213567477 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to recall what computer system it was that suffered from a certain piece of memory getting corrupted always in the same way, and it had a way to detect this corruption and abort with an error message, but alas the corruption always overwrote the length-and-pointer of the error message string, giving the same substring of the error message each time.
< 1213567495 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC tries to recall what computer system it was that suffered from a certain piece of memory getting corrupted always in the same way, and it had a way to detect this corruption and abort with an error message, but alas the corruption always overwrote the length-and-pointer of the error message string, giving the same substring of the error message each time. < 1213567638 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses BB software
< 1213567638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC tries to recall what computer system it was that suffered from a certain piece of memory getting corrupted always in the same way, and it had a way to detect this corruption and abort with an error message, but alas the corruption always overwrote the length-and-pointer of the error message string, giving the same substring of the error message each time. < 1213567651 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC tries to recall what computer system it was that suffered from a certain piece of memory getting corrupted always in the same way, and it had a way to detect this corruption and abort with an error message, but alas the corruption always overwrote the length-and-pointer of the error message string, giving the same substring of the error message each time. < 1213567667 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, BB software writers think it is a really great idea to abbreviate the list of pages of a thread < 1213567676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, BB software writers think it is a really great idea to abbreviate the list of pages of a thread < 1213567693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Kareha doesn't do that < 1213567693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1213567716 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodness, we couldn't be expected to actually handle a list of 50 page nubers all on our own < 1213567723 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1213567723 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213567726 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kareha doesn't doooooooooooooooo that. < 1213567728 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ping. < 1213567844 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: gee I wonder wht youwatched on the telly last night < 1213567854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: huh? < 1213567875 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the way you repeated everything I said was a bit of a give-away < 1213567884 0 :lifthras1ir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213567890 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213567890 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213567915 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. < 1213567934 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is just a co-incidence < 1213567938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1213567943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? < 1213567946 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to Midnight < 1213567961 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest Doctor Who episode < 1213567970 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213567981 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY NETSPLIT < 1213567987 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yeah. < 1213567987 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: You'd better not have removed my include stuff. < 1213567997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Haven't committed but yes. < 1213568005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unneeded. :P < 1213568007 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which includes an inteligence that (initially) repeats what everyone says < 1213568010 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Some ridiculously tiny performance benefit at the cost of requiring the user to include everything from html? God that's stupid. < 1213568046 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Um, it's 6 files. < 1213568054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And regardless of the performance benefit, it has two extra pros: < 1213568057 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: That means that if somebody else was using this code from their html, they'd have to update their include list if we had the audacity of adding a new header. < 1213568059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. firebug doesn't mess up the location info < 1213568062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. it's a lot simpler < 1213568065 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. who cares. < 1213568067 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. no it isn't < 1213568090 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You are assuming that anyone is actually going to use this project, and even write their own page using it... < 1213568105 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that's not the case, I should support that possibility. < 1213568118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well it's a bit late, as this is bundled with my prototyping < 1213568135 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is working fine, apart from one bug. < 1213568147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you push the removal of includes, I revoke your push privileges. You can push by sending things in for my approval. < 1213568168 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs. Fine.
< 1213568169 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, that's really annoying. Don't make giant architectural changes to my code for really stupid performance benefits at a disadvantage to the user of the code. < 1213568180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giant architechtural changes? .. it was a few lines < 1213568188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, firebug is very useful. < 1213568191 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a few /lines/, but a giant /architectural/ change. < 1213568196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just fork, I guess. < 1213568200 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1213568202 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is really silly, of course. < 1213568208 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like this project. So. < 1213568235 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can somebody else come into this conversation on how ridiculous it is to remove a working include() primitive from JavaScript? After I finally got include() working in a language that stupidly has no include()? < 1213568256 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which allows the user of the code to not have to maintain a ridiculous include list. < 1213568266 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: include() is pretty common in JS .. it's just rarely needed < 1213568313 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include() allows extensibility. Without include(), any time you add a new .js file you have to update every .html file that uses the code. < 1213568363 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what's wrong with one more line?... < 1213568388 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more line times X files where X is a number not within your control = bad. < 1213568405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... This is silly. < 1213568414 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual chance of this happening = 0. < 1213568420 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual chance of wanting to use firebug = 1. < 1213568525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: but feel free to revoke my push privileges; I'm happy developing a fork < 1213568554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213568554 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213568585 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213568585 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213568588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB. < 1213568599 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213568599 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213568621 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1213568636 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213568910 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host146-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1213568941 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1213568941 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213569001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaaaay netsplits. < 1213569022 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1213569022 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1213569455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACK. < 1213569457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Back < 1213569731 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213569732 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Phenax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :AAAAAAue4njxuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :B|u35un!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :sekhmet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570167 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1213570167 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host146-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :lifthras1ir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Corun!n=Corun@88-105-220-234.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :B|u35un!n=BlueSun@dslb-084-056-018-129.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.107.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-41-7.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-48-54.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Phenax!n=Phenax@67.15.72.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Deewiant!n=mniemenm@peridootti.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-115-170.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :AAAAAAue4njxuz!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :sekhmet!n=pez@wilug/madlug/sekhmet JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-148-197.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :mtve!i=mtve@mtve.vm.jvds.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Anyway, for when you have multiple files, the overwhelmingly common thing to do is to concat them all together, then run them through a JS packer < 1213570168 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for distribution < 1213570174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, still only one include for this mythical external user who wrote his own page. < 1213570231 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570231 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1213570456 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: lack of includes is the reason pages include dozens of hundreds of kb of unused script < 1213570464 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dozens or hundreds, even < 1213570474 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: that's called "bad coding" < 1213570483 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, JSMIPS depends on all of itself. < 1213570486 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: huh? < 1213570499 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: how is it bad coding to not be able to do the impossible? < 1213570530 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: requiring a whole server-side infrastructure just to have dynamically loading scripts is stupid < 1213570544 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1213570549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're misguided as to what I am talking about. < 1213570574 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript needs includes almost as badly as it needs decent namespacing < 1213570630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: ecmascript4 has namespaces < 1213570649 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-79-136-60-96.NA.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570649 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1213570659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: GregorR: Anyway, for when you have multiple files, the overwhelmingly common thing to do is to concat them all together, then run them through a JS packer < 1213570659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:50] tusho: for distribution < 1213570660 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:50] tusho: So, still only one include for this mythical external user who wrote his own page. < 1213570667 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case he missed it due to netsplit) < 1213570845 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that's a good point >_> < 1213570862 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels victorious :-P
< 1213570869 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot all about packing. < 1213570874 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: hmm... I've seen techniques based on people adding