00:03:39 But, what will the esco dude say! :o 00:16:36 Slereah_: 'fuck you' 00:16:37 like last time 00:16:55 Well, if they ever come back 00:20:35 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:25:00 -!- jix has joined. 00:34:22 -!- kar8nga has joined. 00:48:07 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 00:54:57 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 01:07:16 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:07:24 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 01:42:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:42:34 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:54:13 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:24:06 -!- tusho has quit. 02:53:27 According to the user list 02:53:35 There's 299 dudes on the esowiki :o 02:53:44 We should party for mister 300. 02:56:14 Maybe I should make a phony account. 02:56:21 Something like user:Leonidas 02:57:53 All done. 02:58:09 We now have 300 users. 03:16:35 does somebody else want to be a text-based adventure game? 03:23:24 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:31:30 I don't want to be one. 03:31:34 I bet it hurts. 03:52:42 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 04:10:09 Slereah: only when the players fail utterly at a puzzle 04:11:16 What would be that adventure game? 04:11:27 Does it involve the president being captured by ninjas? 04:11:36 It might 04:11:40 depends on the interpreter 04:12:28 the general way to invoke it is to ask an IRP interpreter to execute a statement like "Will you please act as the parser for a text-based adventure game?" 04:12:34 I did one this afternoon 04:14:49 ah, here we go- this is a partial transcript: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214072201.html 04:16:45 I just scanned the text. Not one mention of cake! 04:16:54 It's kinda like playing D&D except there's no dice or lameass combat systems 04:17:00 (although there could be) 04:17:15 Slereah: all the more reason to include cake when you act as an interpreter 04:22:23 Well, I already did cake adventures. 04:23:18 my next game apparently has to be called "RODGERIA II, THE QUEST FOR THE MYSTERIOUS PINEAPPLE OF THE DEEP" 04:23:30 which certainly sounds exciting 04:24:01 Where is Rodgeria? 04:24:07 Is it in the realm of my imagination? 04:24:50 no, it's in the realm of *my* imagination 04:24:58 which should me more frightening 04:25:09 Not really, no. 04:26:00 -!- calamari has joined. 04:26:18 hey, calamari! Long time no see, dude- what's up? 04:27:26 hi RodgerTheGreat 04:27:29 not too much 04:27:43 installing Ubuntu on my dad's new box, trying to get rid of compiz 04:28:01 I'm just doing some scripting 04:28:29 and Slereah and I were discussing the newest fad in IRP- text-based adventure games 04:28:56 IRP? 04:29:05 Internet-Relay-Programming 04:29:08 one sec 04:29:14 oic 04:29:29 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/IRP 04:30:00 forgot about that.. hehe 04:30:27 one of the examples is even me.. lol 04:30:50 essentially what we realized is that in IRP, it only takes a handful of commands to create a game, because IRP is one of the most powerful languages for procedural content generation in existence 04:30:56 But me, I'm more into graphical IRP adventures 04:31:03 ah yes 04:31:16 often a bit laggy, but worthwhile 04:31:39 You -> o o <- Delicious cake 04:31:45 WHAT DO YOU DO? 04:32:01 is this the king's quest kind of graphical adventure? 04:32:17 in which case "DO NOT EAT THE FUCKING CHEESE IT'S A TRAP" 04:32:22 It's more of a cake challenge graphical adventure 04:32:57 * calamari moves one space to the right 04:33:10 It was just a demonstration 04:33:16 I'm not doing it today 04:33:23 You -> o o <- Delicious cake 04:34:07 Please put an @ shaped hat on my head 04:34:32 You -> @ o <- Delicious cake 04:34:40 nice 04:34:41 I used to do it all in colors 04:34:51 Then I learned that the channel was no colors 04:34:55 yeah, some dudes are ridiculously fast at it 04:34:57 wow the cake moved 04:35:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:35:15 calamari: only if you don't use a monospaced font 04:35:16 don't think I want to eat that 04:35:22 what kinda weirdo are you? 04:35:40 one using a monospaced font 04:35:42 It's so delicious and moist! 04:36:04 Oh well, the game was a huge success anyway 04:36:12 cool 04:36:43 I think portal is now at monty python level. damn. 04:37:02 how long do you guys figure it'll remain in the web's collective consciousness? 04:37:22 Forever? 04:37:31 could be 04:37:40 the internet as we know it is only really a couple years old 04:37:44 We're still not over Zerowing. 04:37:53 we don't even know if things actually CAN go away yet 04:38:05 portal, the game? 04:38:16 Were you aware that Mister T devoured my testicles, RodgerTheGreat? 04:38:22 Slereah: not over zerowing? WHAT YOU SAY??? 04:38:28 dayum 04:38:29 for great justice 04:38:31 No, Portal the household appliance. 04:38:32 calamari: yup 06:46:37 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 07:06:16 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 07:30:22 I wonder how many esolangs in the wiki are one shot occurences that will remain unused forever. 07:32:59 Slereah, try Taxi 07:33:14 (diff) (hist) . . Esme?; 02:54 . . (0) . . Dagoth Ur, Mad God (Talk | contribs) (Undo revision 11873 by Special:Contributions/91.105.124.212 (User talk:91.105.124.212); I prefer "WikiPedia".) 07:33:16 Ahahah 07:49:52 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:49:52 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:06 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:31:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:31:48 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:42:12 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:45:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:27:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:27:23 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:37:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:49:08 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:50:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:01:56 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:04:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:05:25 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:17:21 -!- jix has joined. 11:12:40 http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1214128825215.jpg 11:34:27 -!- RedDak has joined. 12:29:19 -!- Corun has joined. 12:45:10 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:12:24 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:16:57 -!- RedDak has joined. 13:37:24 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:40:18 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 13:40:44 -!- kar8nga has quit (Client Quit). 14:29:39 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:29:47 -!- jix has joined. 14:36:41 -!- Corun has joined. 15:08:51 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:10:58 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:11:06 -!- jix has joined. 15:20:15 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 15:22:21 -!- Corun has joined. 15:25:51 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:50:57 Slereah_: that's the beauty of a wiki. Pages take up a negligible amount of storage, so you can have a virtually infinite supply of such stubs and one-offs just sitting around on the off chance that they'll be needed or referred to 15:52:49 anyone got a good idea for a simple esoteric language to implement (in C) that will give me a good reason to learn flex? 15:53:00 hm 15:53:44 well, most of my favorite languages are stack-based, and for those it's usually just as easy to write the parser/tokenizer by hand 15:54:01 you mean like befung? 15:54:04 befunge* 15:54:18 anyway I like to find some good reason to learn flex 15:54:29 and the rest of the project should be rather simple 15:54:59 more like postscript 15:55:12 ok I see 15:55:34 and no, postscript is too complex to implement 15:55:48 and isn't esoteric 15:56:03 here's an online interpreter for one of my languages, if you have JRE installed: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CogEngine/Sprocket1/ 15:56:21 I meant languages in the family of postscript, not necessarily the language itself 15:56:48 when you take away the graphics stuff, PS is basically just a really clean FORTH-like 15:57:01 I do have JDK but not in the browser 15:57:12 the plugin doesn't exist for x86_64 15:57:21 well, the download link for the console version would work on your computer 15:57:38 the applet one is just cooler. :/ 16:00:01 anyway, this doesn't give me a reason to learn flex really 16:00:11 yeah 16:00:57 I dunno, most esolangs tend to fall into either "trivial parsing" or "murderous parsing" 16:02:16 and most non-esoteric tends to fall into "reasonable parsing" but "complex in other parts" 16:02:28 yup 16:02:45 you could implement a very selective subset of C or Java 16:03:16 choose a single looping construct, remove unnecessary nasty things, etc 16:05:51 :/ 16:06:07 "minimal C" 16:06:20 like "minimal Perl" 16:06:55 depending on your choices it could become quite esoteric, but you would still learn to work with very practical ideas 16:09:21 would I interpret minimal C? 16:09:32 you could do whatever you felt like 16:09:50 I refuse to compile to asm due to religious reasons (I believe in portability) 16:09:54 might be easier to implement that way unless you're handy with ASM, in which case compilation could be a snap 16:09:59 well there you go 16:10:26 or you could compile to bytecode and have twice the fun creating the interpreter 16:10:31 haha 16:10:36 or compile to befunge ;P 16:11:16 oh, even better- you could compile to a bytecode interpreter I invented, thus layering the esotericisim and making your job more challenging and interesting 16:13:22 heh maybe 16:13:34 why one you invented? 16:13:46 RodgerTheGreat: link? 16:13:49 because I have it handy 16:13:54 Judofyr: lemme pastebin it 16:14:01 :) 16:14:45 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214147608.html 16:15:05 it's pretty fast, and I also have an assembler that targets it 16:15:20 I was going to write a language that compiled for it, but I got distracted by other projects 16:15:57 a C version? 16:16:14 I don't normally code in C for fun 16:16:22 * 2 - active stack underflow 16:16:23 * 3 - stack underflow 16:16:23 eh? 16:16:33 but I imagine this would be moderately easy to convert 16:16:41 AnMaster: it's a stack-based VM! :D 16:16:45 RodgerTheGreat, also doesn't java have case? 16:16:58 else if (instr == 10) {swap(0,x);} 16:16:59 else if (instr == 11) {stak[sptr-x-soff] = a;} 16:16:59 else if (instr == 12) {stak[sptr] = stak[sptr-x-soff];} 16:17:00 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 16:17:06 switch (instr) 16:17:09 case 10: 16:17:13 cast 11: 16:17:14 and so on 16:17:23 it does, but I don't like case statements. They don't actually compile to be faster and I think the syntax looks horrible 16:17:41 RodgerTheGreat, well I prefer them in C anyway 16:17:45 no idea about java's syntax 16:17:56 it's pretty much the same, really 16:21:44 but anyway, this is what a hello world would look like in assembly: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214148012.html 16:23:15 why two lads? 16:23:19 LADs 16:23:47 some instructions discard the top stack element, so I think I did that because I needed two copies 16:23:56 ah, stack. 16:24:04 you just said that, but i forgot alreadcy 16:24:07 already 16:24:46 oh, this one is much more interesting- fibonacci sequence! 16:24:47 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214148197.html 16:28:05 CAX? 16:28:22 Copy A to X 16:28:35 hmm, what are those? 16:28:44 X is the instruction parameter, A is the topmost stack element 16:29:09 and this is noted in the source for the VM itself 16:29:21 -!- timotiis has joined. 16:35:11 if (sptr >= STAK_MEMORY) {System.out.println("WARNING: Stack overflow!");halt = true;err = 4;} 16:35:21 that looks 1) typoed 2) why not dynamic stack size? 16:35:23 RodgerTheGreat, ^ 16:35:39 STAK_MEMORY should be STACK_MEMORY right? 16:35:42 RodgerTheGreat, ^ 16:35:48 having a non-dynamic stack size can make it considerably faster 16:35:58 RodgerTheGreat, well for C it would be same speed 16:36:01 and it's STAK_MEMORY- it's uniform throughout my source 16:36:04 -!- Corun has joined. 16:36:05 except you need to malloc once 16:36:40 except if it is actually growing (realloc()) it would have same speed 16:36:52 RodgerTheGreat, can't see how dynamic allocation is a problem? 16:37:30 you can do it trivially by replacing the contents of that error message with code to resize and copy the array- that isn't the point 16:38:00 how is "slight slowdown at one point" worse than "error out on complex program"? 16:39:02 it was originally designed to create a microcontroller-like environment- It has a fixed memory size because I wanted it to be like a physical machine 16:39:26 ah 16:39:41 RodgerTheGreat, memory hotplug ;P 16:39:44 and it'll run quite fast if you make program and memory sizes fit nicely in cache blocks 16:39:57 Bank-switching might be interesting 16:40:04 hah 16:40:17 RodgerTheGreat, what about SMP? 16:40:22 emulation of SMP I mean 16:41:13 * AnMaster wonders if he maybe should create a micro-computer simulator himself 16:41:19 that's be pretty easy 16:41:24 yeah it is 16:41:33 just need to write an assembler for it 16:41:34 AnMaster: coding it's easy, the hard part is coming up with a good instruction set 16:41:37 but it's sure fun 16:41:55 RodgerTheGreat, yep, well I do know PIC12F629 asm 16:42:00 or at least I *knew* 16:42:06 but it was a few years ago 16:42:14 so my knowledge of it is rusty 16:42:17 if you make an assembly language that's anything remotely like I use you could modify my assembler pretty easily, but it's in Java 16:42:30 my main assembly experience is with MIPS 16:42:38 RodgerTheGreat, shouldn't be too hard to rewrite in C 16:42:44 anyway I wouldn't make mine stack based 16:42:47 I know a little 6502, and I'm slowly getting better at it 16:42:48 sure it would have a stack 16:42:50 and a heap 16:43:02 6502? 16:43:26 well, here it is: 16:43:26 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214149325.html 16:43:47 (also it would have maybe 12 or so registers 16:44:06 and it needs a file like this for the language definitions: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214149362.html 16:44:19 http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214149325.html <-- that should give me a reason to learn flex or yacc 16:44:31 the MOS technologies 6502 was one of the most important 8-bit processors in microcomputer history 16:45:00 ? 16:45:05 how many registers do MIPS have RodgerTheGreat ? 16:45:08 32 16:45:13 hrrm 16:45:16 but one is a reserved constant 0, so actually 31 16:45:19 is it PPC that got 128? 16:45:27 I think PPC has 64 16:45:31 RodgerTheGreat, why a reserved 0? that seems pointless 16:45:43 AnMaster: actually it's insanely handy 16:45:49 why? 16:45:50 -!- tusho has joined. 16:45:58 anyway I don't mean stuff like program counter or such, just general purpose registers 16:46:04 comparisons, for one thing 16:46:11 MIPS is RISC, remember 16:46:18 oh true 16:46:40 RodgerTheGreat, so 31 usable general purpose registers? 16:46:45 yeah 16:46:56 some have reserved meanings, but they're just convention 16:47:06 ok 16:47:18 x86 is 8 registers or? 16:47:20 was it 16? 16:47:28 x86_64 is twice as much as x86 anyway 16:47:30 and a handful do special things on certain instructions, like $rt 16:48:06 23:33:14 (diff) (hist) . . Esme?; 02:54 . . (0) . . Dagoth Ur, Mad God (Talk | contribs) (Undo revision 11873 by Special:Contributions/91.105.124.212 (User talk:91.105.124.212); I prefer "WikiPedia".) 16:48:08 LMAO 16:48:13 "I PREFER INCORRECTNESS" 16:48:31 I like to spell city as siti, and if you dare change it, I WILL PREFER IT 16:48:42 Especially if it's on my shitty, unspecified esolang! 16:48:54 RodgerTheGreat, hm ok 16:48:57 yeah, 32 registers, one constant zero, one for return addresses, and one that's bad juju to touch because it's reserved for temporary use by the assembler, so you have 29 general purpose registers 16:49:17 RodgerTheGreat, ok. and on x86? 16:49:43 I think x86 only has one or two "general purpose" registers 16:49:48 it's a CISC monstrosity 16:49:51 yes 16:49:55 but more like 8 16:49:56 not 2 16:50:01 I think it is 8 16:50:11 are you sure? A bunch have reserved meanings 16:50:12 x86_64 got twice as many as x86 anyway 16:50:32 RodgerTheGreat, yes but you can use them for other stuff "while no one is looking" 16:50:38 if you see what I mean 16:50:57 and the instruction can't uniformly perform operations on all of them equally- that's what I mean when I say "general purpose" 16:51:37 eax, ebx, ecx, edx hm 16:51:37 08:09:50 I refuse to compile to asm due to religious reasons (I believe in portability) 16:51:42 AnMaster's religion is crazy. 16:51:47 It dictates how you can compile things on a computer. 16:51:48 tusho, it was a joke anyway 16:51:51 but duh 16:52:04 I bet it's the PortabilityOnCompilersigion. 16:52:08 tusho: I swear to god you're like a clone of pikhq from two years ago 16:52:18 RodgerTheGreat, how was pikhq back then? 16:52:26 anyway tusho == ehird 16:52:28 a douche about pretty much everything 16:52:33 really? 16:52:36 yes 16:52:37 RodgerTheGreat: I was joking, actually 16:52:38 wtf 16:52:40 couldn't you guess 16:52:50 a douche about pretty much everything 16:52:52 exactly 16:53:19 whatever 16:53:33 whatever indeed 16:53:41 RodgerTheGreat, saw that mips emulator someone in here is working on, don't remember url 16:53:44 it was in javascript 16:53:47 quite impressive 16:53:52 Oh, GregorR's 16:53:59 i need to work some more on that 16:54:00 ah yes it was him 16:54:01 probably somewhere in the depths of codu.org 16:54:08 codu.org/jsmips/sh.html for what it's worth 16:54:15 dunno if he added my better keyboard code to that example yet 16:54:15 bingo 16:54:23 http://www.codu.org/jsmips/dc.html 16:54:24 too 16:54:33 anyway, if I appear to be a douche about everything that's probably because your sarcasm detector is broken 16:54:41 (or it's defaulting to 'serious, then maybe sarcasm' instead of the other way around) 16:54:53 * RodgerTheGreat shrugs 16:54:59 "internet, serious business" 16:55:14 ha 16:55:27 RodgerTheGreat: where's that shirt you made captioned 'people from the internet'? 16:55:28 RodgerTheGreat, what is the use of a NOP instruction? 16:55:30 pretty appropriate 16:55:36 tusho: lemme find it 16:55:37 AnMaster: wasting cycles 16:55:45 and NOPing out license key checks 16:55:46 duh ;) 16:55:49 AnMaster: debugging sometimes 16:55:53 RodgerTheGreat, hm ok 16:55:58 RodgerTheGreat, I mean in your asm 16:56:03 I use it in my VM for reserved storage, too 16:56:16 hm? 16:56:36 what is the bit width of your vm? 16:56:39 64-bit? 16:56:41 32-bit? 16:56:48 anything that's data is stored as a NOP instruction so that the VM won't barf if someone forgets to terminate with a HLT 16:56:54 I forget 16:57:11 hah 16:57:16 I think it's char+int, so 24-bit? 16:57:31 well what about OOP asm? I got no idea how it would look 16:57:34 or 40-bit 16:57:52 hunh 16:57:55 int is probably 32-bit 16:57:56 I dunno, really 16:58:10 yeah, it's probably 40-bit instructions 16:58:12 functional asm? XD 16:58:27 RodgerTheGreat, well anyway I mean for data 16:58:28 actually, that's one of the reasons my ASM is stack-based 16:58:31 what is the data word size 16:58:40 functional asm .. i think that's called lambda calculus 16:58:40 :-P 16:58:41 implementing function calls and returns is very clean and straightforward 16:58:52 tusho, haha! 16:58:57 OOP asm sounds fun, though 16:59:00 think I'll write a vm and try that 16:59:10 tusho, well I got no idea what OOP asm would look like 16:59:13 care to describe it? 16:59:14 data word size in my ASM is the size of an int 16:59:22 AnMaster: i dunno, that's why I'm interested 16:59:29 i'll hack up an example 16:59:30 RodgerTheGreat, so program memory is separate from data memory? 16:59:31 of what I think it'll look like 16:59:36 tusho, yes would love to see it 16:59:36 AnMaster: kinda 16:59:47 they're separate "memory fields" 16:59:48 anyone tried Neko? 16:59:50 http://nekovm.org 17:00:05 it was originally harvard architecture, but it mutated into a mix of harvard and von neumann 17:00:17 RodgerTheGreat, well I would prefer one shared memory bank 17:00:24 neko is kinda crap 17:00:25 :) 17:00:28 suffice to say that you can self-modify but you cannot access instruction fields 17:00:41 tusho: oh? 17:00:48 Judofyr: it's just not that interesting 17:00:52 also the asm is too high level 17:00:57 RodgerTheGreat, hm 17:01:14 well my asm would have a NX bit 17:01:24 haXe is pretty cool (IMO) :P 17:01:39 Judofyr, what about LLVM then? 17:01:49 I wanted to try LLVM for a long time 17:01:53 I've never tried LLVM 17:02:01 I haven't yet got around to it 17:02:03 I'm way to high level for it :/ 17:02:11 I should learn some C 17:02:35 if I made an asm I know what I will name it: 17:02:38 ansember XD 17:02:46 ego +1 17:02:47 ;) 17:02:58 AnMaster: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1214150491.html 17:03:01 erally abstract, of course 17:03:02 and trivial 17:03:05 but I guess it'd look kinda similar 17:03:15 CALLMETH is basically CALL, except it takes an instance on the top of the stack 17:03:16 tusho, interesting 17:03:24 i guess you'd have to push 0 17:03:28 to say you're giving it 0 arguments 17:03:30 but whatever 17:03:37 yeah virtual functions and so on 17:03:44 if you implement OO-ASM, there are good odds that it'll look amusingly similar to JVM bytecode 17:03:54 heh 17:03:58 RodgerTheGreat, or MSIL? 17:04:15 RodgerTheGreat: yeah, probably. 17:04:19 JAL 02 true// jump and link 17:04:25 RodgerTheGreat, what does JAL do exactly 17:04:27 i mean, JVM IS oop asm, really :-P 17:04:30 except... 17:04:31 what do you mean with "and link" 17:04:34 AnMaster: like in MIPS- 17:04:35 JVM bytecode has classes in a seperate thingy 17:04:38 instead of 'erasing' them 17:04:39 RodgerTheGreat, I don't know MIPS 17:04:43 you jump to a location and store the return address in a var 17:05:01 as oppsed to a "J", which simply does a GOTO 17:05:19 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 17:05:26 RodgerTheGreat, you mean: call 17:05:27 ? 17:05:41 it's like GOSUB with a one-level stack, and it's your responsibility to maintain the chain of return addresses as necessary 17:05:52 AnMaster: depending on your BASIC interpreter, yes. :) 17:06:00 RodgerTheGreat, I never did basic 17:06:07 I did pascal when I was young instead 17:06:08 ! 17:06:13 not basic 17:06:25 is there a way to use LLVM without touching C? 17:06:41