←2008-06-28 2008-06-29 2008-06-30→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:00:17 <tusho> oerjan: does it work for any thue program?
00:00:45 <oerjan> well _simultaneous_ substitutions
00:00:53 <oerjan> every letter to some word
00:01:24 <tusho> :(
00:01:29 <oerjan> also, the atoms in Conway's numerical look-and-say can be handled this way too
00:01:46 <oerjan> to get frequencies and the "cosmological constant"
00:02:37 <tusho> 123456789 111213141516171819 31121113111411151116111711181119
00:02:40 <tusho> such fun
00:04:18 <oerjan> er, "Conway's constant"
00:04:33 <pikhq> Conway's constant?!?
00:05:02 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look_and_say_sequence
00:05:35 <tusho> 22 22 22 22 22 22 22
00:05:49 <tusho> LOL:
00:05:50 <tusho> # No digits other than 1, 2, and 3 ever appear in the sequence, unless the seed number contains such a digit or a run of more than three of the same digit.
00:05:55 <tusho> congrats einstein
00:06:13 <oerjan> that's the constant for the limit of growth, which is also the eigenvalue from the PF sequence
00:06:21 <oklopol> tusho: trivial?
00:06:22 <oerjan> s/sequence/theorem/
00:06:28 <tusho> oklopol: thoroughly
00:06:41 <oklopol> do prove it
00:06:46 <oerjan> no it is _not_ trivial
00:06:47 <tusho> "This sequence is also referred to as containing Langford numbers." <-- are they like langford basilisks? :P
00:06:53 <tusho> oerjan: ok, well it sounded it
00:07:06 <oerjan> i had to correct someone on the talk page for that once
00:07:21 <oerjan> well it is _nearly_ trivial, but not quite
00:07:27 <oklopol> tusho is even worse a trivializer than i am
00:07:37 <tusho> nearly trivial
00:07:37 <tusho> :D
00:07:55 <oerjan> the point is that you could imagine getting there after several iterations
00:07:56 <tusho> whoa, it's the first section on the talk page
00:07:57 <tusho> coooooooool
00:09:32 <tusho> 1111111111 101 111011 311021 1321101211 1113122110111221
00:09:34 <tusho> look and say is fun
00:09:57 <oklopol> is 10 base carrying an official part of it btw?
00:10:35 <tusho> shrug
00:10:36 <oerjan> oklopol: sort of. all bases >= 4 behave nearly identical after the first few steps
00:10:42 <tusho> what about bases < 4?
00:11:02 <oerjan> they are somewhat different, i found
00:11:25 <tusho> cooooooooooool
00:11:27 <tusho> let's try it
00:11:30 <oerjan> you don't get digit 3 popping up
00:11:35 <tusho> oh.
00:11:36 <tusho> hah
00:11:38 <tusho> xD
00:11:50 <tusho> oerjan: unary look and say is boring
00:11:57 <tusho> 1 11 1111 11111111
00:12:02 <oerjan> heh
00:12:11 <oklopol> 1 11 111 1111 actually
00:12:21 <tusho> oklopol: er
00:12:22 <tusho> really?
00:12:26 <oklopol> well
00:12:33 <tusho> ah yes
00:12:39 <tusho> because 11 is '11' 1s
00:12:41 <oklopol> isn't unary carry N -> 1(N-1)?
00:12:43 <oklopol> yeah
00:12:47 <tusho> heh
00:12:48 <tusho> cute
00:13:04 <oerjan> even more boring. yay!
00:13:08 <oklopol> :)
00:13:17 <tusho> let's try base 3
00:13:25 <tusho> 1 11 21 1211
00:13:30 <tusho> 111221
00:13:37 <oklopol> well, really base 2
00:13:38 <tusho> 1012211
00:13:41 <oklopol> hmm
00:13:46 <oerjan> i _think_ Conway did all bases in the original paper but i haven't checked
00:13:53 <tusho> 1110112221
00:14:07 <tusho> 101102110211
00:14:22 <tusho> 111021101221101221
00:14:30 <tusho> not that interesting, yeah.
00:14:37 <tusho> base 2 might be
00:14:38 <tusho> 1
00:14:39 <tusho> 11
00:14:41 <tusho> 21
00:14:44 <tusho> 1211
00:14:44 <oklopol> heh
00:14:51 <tusho> 111221
00:14:51 <oklopol> tusho: forgot the unary carry.
00:15:01 <tusho> wait
00:15:04 <tusho> I was doing base 2 there
00:15:08 <tusho> no
00:15:09 <tusho> no i wasn't
00:15:10 <tusho> agh
00:15:11 <tusho> I'm stupid
00:15:14 <tusho> 1
00:15:15 <tusho> 11
00:15:17 <tusho> 101
00:15:21 <tusho> 111011
00:15:30 <tusho> 11110101
00:15:35 <oklopol> ah, right, zero
00:15:36 <oklopol> silly me
00:15:41 <oklopol> it's not the same as unary
00:15:43 <tusho> 100110111011
00:15:48 <tusho> hmm
00:15:50 <tusho> that's fractally
00:15:51 <tusho> isn't it
00:16:02 <tusho> if we consider '0's eyeballs, it kind of grows a new eyeball every now and then
00:16:08 <oklopol> :D
00:16:43 <oerjan> i expect the base 2 and 3 cases to have similar theorems as the >= 4 ones, just different
00:17:09 -!- edwardk has joined.
00:17:17 <oerjan> i don't recall if i thought it through all the way when pondering it
00:17:33 <tusho> oerjan: what about odd bases
00:17:33 <oklopol> edwardk!
00:17:36 <tusho> like base i and stuff
00:17:41 <oerjan> also, one more variation: you could say the digit _first_, then the number of digits
00:17:50 <edwardk> heya oklopol
00:17:50 <oklopol> tusho: you don't get any i's there
00:17:54 <oklopol> hmm
00:17:59 <oklopol> base -2i
00:18:09 <edwardk> haven't wandered over this way in a while, thought I'd swing by =)
00:18:19 <oerjan> tusho: you could of course generalize completely and code each length as an arbitrary word
00:18:28 <oklopol> oerjan: that's only different if you have carry
00:18:54 <tusho> edwardk: hi there
00:18:58 <oklopol> edwardk: what's the news on your uncomputable superlanguage?
00:19:06 <oerjan> i mean an arbitrary function from lengths to strings
00:19:13 <oklopol> did you add another construct only oerjan can understand?
00:20:11 <tusho> oerjan: i still like the idea of a base -2i look and say
00:20:12 <tusho> :D
00:20:12 <oerjan> hi edwardk
00:20:12 <SimonRC> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
00:20:23 <oerjan> tusho: go ahead :)
00:20:29 <edwardk> oklopol: heh, well, hrmm. i don't remember if we talked about nuel or kata
00:20:38 <edwardk> if it was nuel i shelved it pretty much completely
00:20:41 <tusho> oerjan: i don't know base -2i
00:20:42 <tusho> unfortunately
00:20:55 <edwardk> if it was kata i'm hacking away quite furiously ;)
00:21:23 <edwardk> oklopol: kata = nuel without types, but i temporarily cut the theorem proving bits while i work on the main language
00:21:56 <edwardk> otoh, i still get some of the benefits because i can check a lot of the pattern matching at compile time
00:22:12 <oerjan> i vaguely recall thinking something like, if the strings representing lengths don't grow more than logarithmically (as -2i also wouldn't) then there will be a bound on what digits eventually appear
00:22:22 <edwardk> oklopol: and yeah there are plenty of oerjanly constructs in it ;)
00:22:49 <tusho> edwardk: is it oklo though
00:22:53 <tusho> and is it eso
00:22:55 <tusho> and is it o and oko
00:22:58 <tusho> if not, oklopol doesn't want to know
00:23:04 <tusho> especially if it's easy to use
00:23:39 <edwardk> heh, well it does have a built-in sugar for working with comonads, and you have to do IO using the codensity monad of a free monad of IO actions, so its definitely esoteric ;)
00:23:43 <tusho> (and by 'oklopol' we are referring to the collective pronoun of 'the disciples of the oko religion')
00:23:56 <tusho> oklopol: here, let's demonstrate our faith to the oko
00:23:57 <tusho> o
00:24:06 <oklopol> edwardk: sounds like fun.
00:24:11 <tusho> hmph
00:24:12 <tusho> o
00:24:45 <oklopol> but i'm afraid i still lack some crucial theory when it comes to category theory.
00:24:50 <oklopol> err
00:24:57 <tusho> oklopol: IT'S OKO TOWER TIME DAMNIT
00:24:58 <tusho> o
00:24:59 <oklopol> knowledge
00:25:01 <tusho> o
00:25:04 <oklopol> okokokoko
00:25:06 <oklopol> okokokokoko
00:25:08 <oklopol> okokokoko
00:25:10 <tusho> o
00:25:11 <edwardk> oklopol: heh i've blogged a ton of category theory bits on the topic over the last few months
00:25:14 <tusho> that was a lame tower
00:25:22 <oklopol> tusho: i guess
00:25:24 <oklopol> okokokokoko
00:25:25 <oklopol> okokokoko
00:25:26 <oklopol> okokoko
00:25:26 <oklopol> okoko
00:25:27 <oklopol> oko
00:25:27 <oklopol> o
00:25:32 <oklopol> vista failed it, not me
00:25:33 <tusho> let's do it properly
00:25:33 <tusho> o
00:25:57 <oklopol> (i know i was gonna switch to linux, but you know, i'm lazy.)
00:26:07 <oklopol> oko
00:26:17 * oerjan wonders how oklofok and oklokok differ from oklopol, grammatically
00:26:30 <oklopol> oerjan: what do you mean?
00:26:32 <oerjan> they are obviously closely related
00:26:53 <oerjan> oklopol: in the context of <tusho> (and by 'oklopol' we are referring to the collective pronoun of 'the disciples of the oko religion')
00:27:01 <tusho> they're obvciously lmlads
00:27:23 <tusho> oerjan: ah, oklofok refers to the innate oko _nature_ all oklopol have within us
00:27:35 <tusho> that is, it still refers to the disciples, but shifted to refer to the innate oko nature of them
00:27:39 <tusho> (which is themself)
00:27:59 <tusho> oklokok is the same, but with the string of anti-oko instead of the innate oko nature
00:28:04 <tusho> (of course, oko is defined by the string of anti-oko)
00:28:52 * tusho scared off edwardk
00:29:05 <tusho> are you prejudiced against our religion edwardk?!~?~?~?~?~?!~!@
00:29:05 <oerjan> ah it all makes sense now. if i don't think too hard, anyway.
00:29:18 <edwardk> not scared off
00:29:43 <oklopol> i'm sure he was a little scared on by that, rather
00:29:47 <edwardk> was sitting here trying to figure out how to merge a couple of ways to thinking about coroutines and if i'd get any benefit out of thw windows fiber api
00:29:49 * oerjan didn't know about the anti-oko before
00:29:50 <augur> ack
00:29:51 <augur> gtg tusho
00:29:53 <tusho> oerjan: it's kind of like zen except we mock zen for being stupid
00:29:54 <augur> ::bite::
00:29:58 <augur> ill be back in an hour
00:30:02 <tusho> uh, bye? :p
00:30:04 <augur> dont worry, im close to being finished :p
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00:31:02 <oerjan> windows has fibers? it appears to be more advanced than i previously had been aware
00:31:27 <edwardk> oerjan: yeah actually they've got arguably a better fiber api than the posix makecontext/swapcontext crap
00:31:57 <edwardk> its not all that complicated to use either, sql server runs on top of it
00:32:19 * oerjan of course is assuming fiber has the usual mathematical meaning, since he doesn't even know the compsci one. just so you're warned.
00:32:26 <edwardk> hahahaha
00:32:44 <edwardk> a fiber is a lightweight cooperative thread
00:32:52 <oerjan> ah
00:32:56 <edwardk> you swap fibers cooperatively, its like switching stacks
00:32:59 <edwardk> and registers
00:34:28 <edwardk> basically since kata is pretty much designed to be more or less bare metal speed where it can for a language with so little type info, permitting fibers and async io as a useful default practice would drive the right behavior in the APIs
00:34:54 <edwardk> most languages just kinda throw a thin veneer over the basic blocking posix crap and call it a day
00:35:21 <edwardk> er designed to be as close to bare metal speed
00:36:47 <edwardk> basically trying to figure out how to hand around fibers in a type-safe manner at the moment or if i shouldn't bother to add them to my cognitive overhead
00:37:22 <edwardk> one can argue that they add no value if the rest of your language is designed right
00:38:27 <tusho> edwardk: We like kittens.
00:38:44 <edwardk> I do too =)
00:39:28 <oerjan> no! evil subversive monster felines!
00:40:10 <edwardk> oklopol: http://comonad.com/reader/2008/kan-extensions/ explains the codensity stuff i mentioned earlier, but if you don't do haskell it might cause your brain to segfault
00:43:35 <oklopol> i don't do haskell, i just know some of it.
00:43:51 <oerjan> for an example of their evil, see from the bottom of http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic/series.php?view=archive&chapter=9816
00:48:38 <tusho> oerjan: I liked tha
00:48:39 <tusho> t
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01:36:33 <Slereah> cctoide : Frieeend?
01:36:37 <augur> back
01:36:44 <augur> tusho: its hard to see the fractals :(
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04:50:07 <Slereah_> Man it's hard to find a good version of Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye.
04:50:19 <Slereah_> Either it's sung mediocrely, or it's incomplete.
04:50:41 <Slereah_> I found one that almost was perfect, but the last verse is missing.
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05:19:22 <augur> dude omg
05:19:25 <augur> doctor who
05:19:25 <augur> omg
05:19:28 <augur> omg omg omg
05:31:49 <Slereah_> As sung by the Who? :o
06:00:11 <augur> yes
06:00:31 <augur> *rimshot*
07:05:37 <augur> lalala
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08:42:45 <GregorR> GREGOR ALIVE
08:48:30 <augur> hey gregor.
08:49:10 <Slereah_> Well, better than Gregor Dead, I suppose.
08:49:18 <augur> MUMMIES ALIVE
08:59:25 <augur> night guys
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09:34:32 <KingOfKarlsruhe> hello, my new version (0.1.0) is finished :-) it produces smaller BF code http://paste.pocoo.org/show/78109/
10:07:11 <oklopol> hey man that's python
10:08:15 <oklopol> "Hello World" is saved as "[H][E][L][O][W][R][D]" what?
10:08:58 <oklopol> like, nub(...)?
10:09:03 <oklopol> i don't get it
10:12:56 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol whats wrong ?
10:14:18 <oklopol> well i have no idea what you meant by that
10:15:08 <KingOfKarlsruhe> you can type "hello world" or you can type H = 1 e = 2 l = 3 o = 4 --> 12334 --> hello
10:17:08 <KingOfKarlsruhe> the produced code is smaller
10:20:44 <oklopol> okay, what's the algo, i can't really get that just by reading.
10:21:31 <oklopol> first of all, it's a function from texts to brainfuck codes that output that text?
10:21:47 <KingOfKarlsruhe> yes
10:22:32 <KingOfKarlsruhe> text(ascii/unicode/binary) -> BF -> text
10:23:39 <KingOfKarlsruhe> i calculate the BF equivalent of the character an save it in my dictionary
10:24:05 <oklopol> and you just stack those one after another in a string?
10:24:24 <KingOfKarlsruhe> if the character in the dictionary: goto position else: save it on the end of the dictionary
10:24:53 <oklopol> so if that char is output twice, it rewinds to last use?
10:25:01 <oklopol> with <<'s or something
10:25:09 <KingOfKarlsruhe> yes you have it
10:25:25 <KingOfKarlsruhe> "hel" < "o" = "hello"
10:25:27 <oklopol> so it nubs the whole string on the tape
10:26:16 <KingOfKarlsruhe> yes on the tape i have [H][E][L][O][W][R][D] and i use the ">", "<" to print the rest
10:26:23 <oklopol> okay, that was how i assumed it worked
10:26:33 <oklopol> now, that's very inefficient
10:27:59 <oklopol> what you want to do is create as little "base characters" as possible, and when printing char X, navigate to closest char in ascii value, make it X, and output
10:29:20 <KingOfKarlsruhe> thats a good idea
10:35:52 <KingOfKarlsruhe> heheh my next version produce smaller code than this version :)
10:44:00 <KingOfKarlsruhe> hhee 25,3 KB text -> 345,7 KB Brainfuck code :P
10:44:24 <KingOfKarlsruhe> very inefficient
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10:50:46 <oklopol> i should make a bf generation program
10:50:49 <oklopol> in fact
10:50:51 <oklopol> i will, now.
10:50:59 <oklopol> KingOfKarlsruhe: let's compete
10:51:02 <oklopol> mwahaha
10:51:29 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol: heheh cool :)
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11:15:52 <oklopol> bfbots, anyone?
11:15:54 <oklopol> ++++++++++[->+++>++++>+++++++>++++++++++<<<<]++.+.+++++++..+++.++++.++.++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.+.
11:15:58 <oklopol> is this hw
11:25:46 <oklopol> +++++++++++++++[->++>+++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<]---.----.+++++++..+++.-.++.-..+++.------.--------.+.
11:25:53 <oklopol> oh, actually
11:26:04 <oklopol> i could just have read it and realized i don't have the <>'s
11:26:58 <oklopol> +++++++++++++++[->++>+++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<]<<<---.<----.+++++++..+++.>>-.>++.<<<<-.>.+++.------.--------.>>>+.
11:27:08 <oklopol> ridiculously long
11:27:23 <oklopol> but wonder if it works
11:27:28 <oklopol> perhaps i have to write a bf
11:29:14 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol: you need a bf-interpreter ?
11:34:47 <oklopol> well i made it
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11:34:51 <oklopol> so not anymore
11:34:55 <oklopol> anyway, it works now
11:35:01 <oklopol> +++++++++++++++[->++>+++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<]>>>---.>----.+++++++..+++.<<-.<++.>>>>-.<.+++.------.--------.<<<+.
11:35:04 <oklopol> hello world
11:35:05 <oklopol> :<
11:35:09 <oklopol> long as hell
11:35:32 <oklopol> can someone run egobot or something?
11:36:29 <oklopol> +++++++++++++++++[->+>++>++++>++++++>+++++++<<<<<]>>>++++.>-.+++++++..+++.<<--.>>>.<.+++.------.--------.<<+.<-------. is "Hello world!"
11:36:38 <oklopol> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.-
11:36:47 <oklopol> in wp
11:37:24 <oklopol> perhaps i'll try adding some heuristic
11:40:41 <oklopol> actually, nm, don't really feel like it
11:40:43 <oklopol> too harddd
11:41:21 <oklopol> KingOfKarlsruhe: can i see some of your results so i can try to beat your original naive one?
11:43:16 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol: ok
11:43:31 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p433226444.txt
11:44:09 <oklopol> there's the a trivial heuristic of not letting base values grow too near each other.
11:44:15 <oklopol> but i didn't even make that one
11:47:38 <KingOfKarlsruhe> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/78116/
11:48:18 <KingOfKarlsruhe> your code works correctly
11:48:33 <oklopol> That's brainfuck in mine: +++++++++++++++++[->++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++<<<<<]>>>-.>++.-------.>---.<<<<+++++.>>>>-.<<<<-------.>--.>>>-.<.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.
11:48:38 <KingOfKarlsruhe> output : Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia
11:48:38 <KingOfKarlsruhe> deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
11:48:48 <oklopol> yeah, i tried
11:48:55 <oklopol> well i tried the hw
11:49:49 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol: Oo thats very cool ^^ its smaller and better
11:50:20 <oklopol> yeah who's the king now!
11:50:46 <KingOfKarlsruhe> you are the KingOfBF :)
11:51:09 <KingOfKarlsruhe> you coded this in that little time ?
11:51:35 <oklopol> well yeah
11:51:58 <oklopol> http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p122223663.txt
11:52:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> you calculate from all letters the middle-value and then you add ' - ' or '+'
11:52:55 <KingOfKarlsruhe> thats python O_O
11:53:03 <oklopol> middle-value? average you mean?
11:53:25 <KingOfKarlsruhe> yes ^^
11:53:29 <oklopol> well, tusho calls okopython, i write it a bit differently from others
11:54:06 <KingOfKarlsruhe> in german it is middle-value the literal interpretation
11:55:05 <oklopol> in finnish too
11:55:13 <KingOfKarlsruhe> i feel so bad ^^ i worked 3 days on my solution and your code is smaller and better wahhhh
11:55:36 <oklopol> how old are ya?
11:55:40 <KingOfKarlsruhe> 20
11:55:56 <oklopol> on this channel, the older you are, the more you get owned, it seems
11:56:25 <oklopol> but really i've coded so much python i don't really have to give it any thought
11:56:27 <KingOfKarlsruhe> the algorythm is the special point
11:56:54 <oklopol> i don't really decide on an algo, i just open a text file and wait for about an hour for the code to be ready
11:57:05 <oklopol> it's python that does all the work
11:57:55 <oklopol> i'm a bit of a python-enthusiast
11:58:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol: i am new on coding ... my first code was at December 07
11:59:09 <oklopol> KingOfKarlsruhe: anyway, i separated basemultiplier + basenumbers -> code, and then just iterated through possible basemultipliers and found the heuristically best list of basenumbers
11:59:19 <oklopol> and checked what produces the shortest code
11:59:43 <KingOfKarlsruhe> that algo is wonderful ^^
12:00:16 <oklopol> well it's been used before, i didn't really invent it
12:00:29 <oklopol> although i'm 90% sure i'd've invented it if i hadn't seen it
12:01:57 <oklopol> algorithm is the correct form btw
12:03:42 <oklopol> but with my way to create the actual output from the base list, i don't get the results of wikipedia even with the base list they use
12:03:45 <KingOfKarlsruhe> you have a char like "C" then you so ord() so you habe the char-value... then you have 67 and do 67 * '+'.. then you divide it for the best factors
12:03:50 <oklopol> not nearly the same
12:04:04 <oklopol> o i don't factor anything
12:04:11 <oklopol> basically
12:04:19 <oklopol> to get the base number for a certain base number
12:04:21 <oklopol> errrr
12:04:25 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oh ok you do this like 2 ^^ 3
12:04:27 <oklopol> to get the base numbers for a certain base multiplier
12:04:31 <oklopol> o no.
12:04:32 <oklopol> wait a sec
12:04:41 <oklopol> def findc(s,b):
12:04:44 <oklopol> c=set([])
12:04:47 <oklopol> for i in s:
12:04:50 <oklopol> c.add(int(round(float(ord(i))/b)))
12:04:53 <oklopol> return sorted(c)
12:04:54 <oklopol> this finds the base numbers
12:05:02 <oklopol> nnscript fucks up the indentation
12:05:09 <oklopol> but it should be clear
12:05:42 <KingOfKarlsruhe> amazing.. so small code
12:05:47 <oklopol> that just does
12:05:48 <oklopol> like
12:05:51 <oklopol> for hello world
12:06:09 <oklopol> [72, 101, 108, 108, 111, 44, 32, 119, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33]
12:06:16 <oklopol> this is the map(ord,...) for it
12:06:17 <oklopol> so
12:06:46 <oklopol> it would create the sorted set set([30,40,70,100])
12:06:54 <oklopol> set([30,40,70,100,110]), actually
12:06:59 <oklopol> if base was 10
12:07:14 <oklopol> for base 100, it would create set([0,100])
12:08:10 <KingOfKarlsruhe> i must realize what that code do...
12:08:12 <oklopol> for base 17, there'd be 34 for the value 33, and 51 for 44, etx
12:08:14 <oklopol> *etc
12:09:16 <oklopol> for each character in the string to be generated, it takes the closest integer multiple of the basemultiplier
12:09:22 <oklopol> that's really t.
12:09:23 <oklopol> *it
12:10:39 <oklopol> so sorted(set([int(round(float(i)/base)) for i in s]))
12:10:47 <oklopol> if you want it shorter
12:11:07 <oklopol> base is the base multiplier
12:11:36 <oklopol> also it generates the list of numbers before multiplying with the base number, not the actual multiplied numbers
12:11:43 <KingOfKarlsruhe> and from where you know what the base multi is ?
12:11:53 <oklopol> i try all base multipliers
12:12:00 <oklopol> and check which produces shortest code
12:12:11 <oklopol> return least(len,[txt2bf_(s,b,findc(s,b)) for b in xrange(3,40)])[1]
12:12:18 <oklopol> the xrange is the base numbers i try
12:12:23 <KingOfKarlsruhe> oklopol your geniality is awesome
12:12:52 <oklopol> :D
12:12:59 <oklopol> thanks, i guess!
12:13:55 <oklopol> anyway, i'd prolly have done all this genetically, but as EgoBot already has such a bfgen, i couldnt
12:13:56 <oklopol> couldn't
12:14:27 <oklopol> i usually go for genetics, and let things sort themselves out
12:15:49 <oklopol> oh btw, don't use the bf, it doesn't actually work for anything but this
12:16:20 <oklopol> didn't wanna type the 50 more characters, too much work-o
12:19:49 <KingOfKarlsruhe> this code i much higher than my brain... i learn very much from your solution.. thanks
12:20:08 <oklopol> hey, i couldn't read yours either :P
12:20:34 <oklopol> i need declarative explanations for functions
12:20:37 <oklopol> to get code
12:20:39 <oklopol> usually
12:23:38 <KingOfKarlsruhe> if i understand your code, i do a rewrite of it ^^
12:24:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> ok have a nice day, and your're awesome !!! bye
12:25:09 <oklopol> oh
12:25:10 <oklopol> bye
12:25:28 <oklopol> weird leavers
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13:38:22 <AnMaster> oklopol, genetic programming
13:38:25 <AnMaster> how do you do that
13:38:38 <AnMaster> it seems useful
13:39:11 <oklopol> guess a few, take the best, guess a few close to the good ones, iterate
13:40:05 <AnMaster> oklopol, do you use some automated software to do this?
13:40:35 <oklopol> what do you mean?
13:40:48 <AnMaster> iirc there are frameworks for genetic programmin
13:40:50 <oklopol> well whatever you mean, i use python
13:40:58 <oklopol> well sure, but i usually write the 5 lines myself
13:41:06 <AnMaster> aha
13:41:09 <oklopol> takes less time
13:41:19 <AnMaster> also why don't you like C?
13:41:38 <oklopol> it doesn't have sets without importing a module, that's an instantsetback
13:41:50 <oklopol> *instant setback, although still a weird word choice
13:41:58 <AnMaster> um?
13:42:04 <AnMaster> you mean like array?
13:42:08 <oklopol> it doesn't have lists at all, that really renders it completely useless for fun programming
13:42:12 <oklopol> no i mean sets
13:42:31 <AnMaster> anyway you got hashes by libraries
13:43:09 <oklopol> what hashes?
13:43:15 <AnMaster> hash arrays
13:43:17 <AnMaster> ..
13:43:23 <AnMaster> sparse arrays if you want
13:43:34 <oklopol> i assumed you meant a hash value
13:43:37 <oklopol> but yeah
13:43:43 <oklopol> sure you do get those from libs
13:43:49 <AnMaster> also you can write faster programs in C than in any interpreted language
13:43:54 <AnMaster> oklopol, from the INTARNET ;P
13:44:13 <oklopol> i don't like downloading libs
13:44:23 <oklopol> anyway, i have time to wait for my slow programs to finish
13:44:39 <oklopol> doesn't really matter to me whether it's a microsecond or a millisecond
13:44:51 <AnMaster> oklopol, when python can be compiled to native machine code I may change opinion
13:44:56 <oklopol> i'm a human, you see
13:45:10 <oklopol> i simply can't tell the difference
13:45:13 <AnMaster> oklopol, the day python can be used to write a kernel...
13:55:19 <oklopol> kernels aren't all that interesting
13:56:04 <oklopol> anyway, i've done tons of C/C++
13:56:33 <oklopol> but nowadays i just prefer to do my daily coding in non-esolangs
13:58:48 <oklopol> and before you can answer my malicious joke
13:58:50 * oklopol leaves
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15:46:16 <Slereah_> Heh. I think I saw sum phishing :D
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17:25:59 <KingOfKarlsruhe> hey oklopol, i understand now your script :)
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17:39:42 <tusho> hi ais523
17:42:36 <tusho> 03:55:56 <oklopol> on this channel, the older you are, the more you get owned, it seems
17:42:36 <tusho> *g*
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17:43:32 <tusho> KingOfKarlsruhe: and yeah, oklopol's code often does tons of crazy stuff in a tiny amount of space
17:43:59 <tusho> i mean, the last function there is even a BF interpreter
17:44:04 <tusho> although it only handles one set of nested brackets
17:44:07 <tusho> so it's not turing complete
17:45:25 <tusho> 05:45:13 <AnMaster> oklopol, the day python can be used to write a kernel...
17:45:30 <tusho> is the day when you can use python to write a kernel
17:45:31 <tusho> nothing more
17:48:39 <AnMaster> is the day I will use python maybe
17:48:56 <KingOfKarlsruhe> tusho: oklopol geniality is aweosome ! i need 3 hours to understand _what_ this code do
17:49:17 <AnMaster> btw anyone know a good non-intrusive cd player for linux? console
17:49:21 <AnMaster> no X dependency
17:49:45 <tusho> AnMaster: why does every language have to be able to be usable for kernel writing to use it?
17:49:48 <AnMaster> I can't do the normal for file in *.ogg; do ogg123 "$file"; done
17:49:56 <AnMaster> tusho, because I'm insane ;P
17:50:00 <KingOfKarlsruhe> AnMaster: mp3blaster ?
17:50:01 <tusho> why does that matter if you're not writing a kernel?
17:50:08 <AnMaster> tusho, because I'm insane ;P
17:50:13 <AnMaster> or mad?
17:50:18 <tusho> AnMaster: bash can't write a kernel
17:50:26 <AnMaster> tusho, sad but true
17:50:33 <tusho> *g
17:50:33 * AnMaster ponders making a bash -> C compiler
17:50:48 <AnMaster> KingOfKarlsruhe, hm can it play CDs?
17:50:52 <AnMaster> because that is what I need
17:51:02 <tusho> AnMaster: what do you think of my blog design http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08266/picture5214.png
17:51:11 <tusho> (warning: picture is drunk on design simplicity)
17:51:17 <tusho> (and meaningless filler text)
17:51:19 <AnMaster> tusho, very nice and clean
17:51:25 <tusho> thanks
17:51:25 <tusho> :)
17:51:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> AnMaster: i don't know .. try it :)
17:51:37 <oklopol> i like the text
17:51:40 <oklopol> makes ya think
17:51:43 <tusho> oklopol: yeah
17:51:44 <tusho> it's deep
17:51:48 <AnMaster> tusho, maybe a small title (<h1>) at the top?
17:52:07 <oklopol> KingOfKarlsruhe: congrats if you get it, not many have even tried to read my code.
17:52:27 <tusho> AnMaster: considered it, not sure if it's really necessary though, the little introductory paragraph is pretty simple and explicit
17:52:31 <tusho> plus what would I put there?
17:52:35 <tusho> <h1>tusho.org</h1>?
17:52:38 <tusho> because that's self-evident
17:52:45 <AnMaster> tusho, oh if you got no better name...
17:52:59 <tusho> well, i'd like to call it copenhagen because that's a nice name
17:53:03 <tusho> but copenhagen.org is obviously taken
17:53:04 <AnMaster> haha
17:53:26 <tusho> and points to a site much uglier than mine may I add
17:55:22 <tusho> AnMaster: i wish I could control the spacing of sentences through css
17:55:27 <tusho> i'd like to make the space a bit wider
17:55:35 <tusho> and I certainly don't want to do &nbsp;&nbsp; that's just hideous
17:55:43 <tusho> alas, that would be css meddling with i18n
17:55:45 <tusho> to define 'sentence'
17:55:47 <tusho> so it won't happen
17:56:05 <AnMaster> tusho, if you want typesetting try LaTeX
17:56:13 <AnMaster> also sure you can't do it in CSS?
17:56:18 <tusho> very sure, yes
17:56:18 <AnMaster> I got no idea
17:56:24 <tusho> it isn't much of a problem though
17:56:33 <tusho> since I'm used to reading sentences seperated by one space
17:56:47 <tusho> (certainly, two spaces is just as silly as one. It's not about how many spaces there are, it's about the actual spacing.)
18:00:29 <tusho> AnMaster: http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08260/picture6487.png here's what it looks like without css
18:00:38 <tusho> (note, I added the '3.0' to the license and removed subtitles just now, so that's not due to css being off)
18:00:55 <AnMaster> tusho, why are the titles links?
18:01:01 <tusho> AnMaster: links to the entries
18:01:05 <AnMaster> that bit look a bit uggly, but apart from that: nice
18:01:19 <tusho> it's quite common to click on a title to get to a post page
18:01:28 <tusho> of course, the blueness isn't that appealing, so it's styled away
18:01:34 <tusho> i think wordpress was the first one to link the titles
18:01:37 <tusho> but it's quite common now
18:01:41 <tusho> and anyway I click titles all the time
18:02:03 <tusho> oh, and it rocks in lynx/elinks/w3m
18:26:28 <AnMaster> KingOfKarlsruhe, yay cplay can do it
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19:52:14 <augur> hello! :D
19:53:33 <tusho> hello
19:54:19 <oklopol> ooooooooo
19:56:05 <augur> heyo. hows it goin? :D
19:56:40 <augur> omg tusho did you see doctor who last night?!
19:56:52 <tusho> no
19:56:52 <tusho> :|
19:57:02 <augur> why not?!
19:57:05 <tusho> i'm lazy
19:57:17 <augur> what?
19:57:24 <augur> watching television is the most lazy thing you can do
19:57:38 <tusho> no
19:57:39 <tusho> coding is
19:57:40 <tusho> duh
19:57:40 <tusho> :P
19:57:48 <augur> coding requires that you type
19:57:49 <augur> and think
19:58:03 <augur> omg dude
19:58:07 <augur> holy fucking shit it was crazy
19:58:08 <tusho> type? think?
19:58:09 <augur> CRAZY
19:58:15 <tusho> wow, I just kind of transfer my glob into the text file
19:58:17 <tusho> :\
19:58:35 <augur> i'd transfer your glob if you know what i mean
19:58:41 <augur> wayy hey hey
19:58:42 <augur> ;D
19:58:43 <augur> :P
19:59:28 <augur> (read that in the voice of ainsley harriot)
19:59:38 <tusho> lawl
19:59:44 <lament> fags
19:59:58 <augur> lament, did YOU watch doctor who?
20:00:27 <lament> no.
20:00:44 <augur> lame.
20:01:05 <augur> you can't spell "lament" without "lame"
20:01:05 <augur> ;D
20:01:26 <tusho> no
20:01:26 <augur> you too oklopol.
20:01:27 <tusho> fuck you.
20:01:30 <tusho> :)
20:01:34 <augur> promise?
20:13:15 <AnMaster> augur, in what country?
20:13:29 <AnMaster> there is no doctor who on any of the tv channels I got here in Sweden
20:13:35 <AnMaster> augur, so tell me about it
20:14:08 <augur> surfthechannel.com
20:14:12 <augur> its all the TV i need :P
20:16:21 <AnMaster> no flash needed?
20:16:51 <tusho> AnMaster: tell me a good way to distribute streamed video content that works cross-browser and cross-platform
20:16:52 <tusho> that isn't flash
20:16:55 <tusho> i'll wait
20:17:12 <AnMaster> tusho, can't you stream ogg-theora?
20:17:13 <augur> vlash very needed
20:17:24 <AnMaster> augur, forget it then
20:17:24 <tusho> AnMaster: cross-browser and cross-platform
20:17:25 <augur> flash*
20:17:33 <tusho> and something that people actually have installed
20:17:33 <AnMaster> tusho, well browser? why?
20:17:40 <AnMaster> tusho, mplayer!
20:17:42 <tusho> AnMaster: because they can't allow downloads easily
20:17:43 <AnMaster> vlc!
20:17:44 <AnMaster> xine!
20:17:46 <tusho> they have to go through barriers
20:17:51 <tusho> to stay legal (if that site even is legal)
20:17:54 <tusho> (if it's not, then meh)
20:17:58 <tusho> (a web interface is convenient)
20:18:03 <AnMaster> tusho, I can save a stream
20:18:06 <AnMaster> even from flash
20:18:09 <tusho> yes
20:18:16 <tusho> but legality requires putting up Big Pointless Barriers
20:18:20 <tusho> law sucks
20:18:42 <AnMaster> big?
20:19:16 <tusho> big as in tedious
20:20:00 <AnMaster> for youtube is is dead easy
20:20:07 <AnMaster> youtube-dl url
20:20:11 <AnMaster> emerge it!
20:20:15 <AnMaster> if you are on gentoo
20:20:16 <AnMaster> otherwise
20:20:27 <AnMaster> http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/
20:20:55 <augur> arrakis is in estonia?
20:21:00 <augur> I NEVER KNEW!
20:21:03 <AnMaster> augur, no clue
20:21:04 <tusho> AnMaster: that's not the point
20:21:06 <AnMaster> who is arrakis?
20:21:09 <AnMaster> augur, ?
20:21:23 <tusho> legal content distributors, by law, are mostly only allowed to be legal by the bigcorps if they put up some barriers to download
20:21:23 <augur> arrakis is a planet
20:21:26 <AnMaster> augur, I just checked the homepage url of the ebuild
20:21:30 <AnMaster> augur, it is?
20:21:32 <tusho> so that Average Joe or Slightly More Than Average Joe can't download them
20:21:35 <augur> way to show your scifi ignorane
20:21:38 <augur> ignorance*
20:21:55 <AnMaster> augur, star trek? star wars?
20:22:05 <augur> DUNE.
20:22:10 <augur> BE GONE.
20:22:10 <AnMaster> augur, ah no clue then
20:22:18 <AnMaster> I do know what dune is
20:22:21 <AnMaster> but I never read that
20:22:28 <augur> neither have i
20:22:40 <augur> because im not LAME like YOU
20:22:47 <Deewiant> you should read it, it's good
20:24:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hi
20:24:34 <tusho> hi deewiant, you're yellow
20:24:35 <tusho> i know this
20:24:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, is TURT hard to implement?
20:24:52 <Deewiant> not really
20:25:01 <AnMaster> your code seems rather complex
20:25:05 <Deewiant> you might have to think about it a bit though
20:25:09 <AnMaster> oh?
20:25:11 <AnMaster> why?
20:25:15 <Deewiant> it might be overcomplex
20:25:19 <AnMaster> hah
20:25:24 <Deewiant> can't remember
20:25:51 <Deewiant> but yeah, because there's the thing about when to draw and when not to
20:26:05 <AnMaster> oh?
20:26:12 <Deewiant> can't remember all the commands but I remember getting something wrong a few times :-P
20:26:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does mycology test it well or?
20:26:34 <Deewiant> not really, I don't think
20:26:43 <AnMaster> well what does test it well then?
20:26:50 <Deewiant> nothing I know of
20:27:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you got to have wrote your own test programs?
20:27:04 <Deewiant> haven't run into any TURT programs :-P
20:27:08 <Deewiant> no, only mycology
20:27:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well how do you know you got them wrong then?
20:27:24 <Deewiant> trust me, it was hard enough to finish that ;-)
20:27:43 <Deewiant> I can reason about programs without having to run them :-P
20:27:47 <AnMaster> hm
20:27:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well what about that TURT quine?
20:28:06 <AnMaster> made by !Befunge author
20:28:17 <AnMaster> "mad domain name"
20:28:20 <Deewiant> news to me, or I've forgotten it
20:28:33 <tusho> http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/tquine.php
20:28:47 <AnMaster> thanks
20:28:51 <tusho> p.s.
20:28:54 <tusho> that domain is available at http://www.phlamethrower.co.uk/
20:29:12 <Deewiant> and the thing with befunge programs on the net is that you have to read them through and think about it to know whether it's correct, you can't trust implementations :-P
20:29:19 <tusho> well
20:29:19 <AnMaster> phlamethrower hehe
20:29:20 <tusho> almost the same
20:29:22 <tusho> {# Wondering what the deal is with the domain name? Head over to my befunge pages to find out.}
20:29:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, true!
20:29:32 <tusho> is on the crazy one
20:29:32 <tusho> on the main page
20:29:41 <tusho> and 'Out of cheese?', linking to phlamethrower on the crzy one,
20:29:47 <tusho> changes to 'Got egnufeB?'
20:29:49 <tusho> linking to the crazy one
20:29:58 <AnMaster> yes
20:30:05 <AnMaster> tusho, why "out of cheese" though
20:30:09 <AnMaster> doesn't make sense to em
20:30:10 <AnMaster> me*
20:30:12 <tusho> shrug
20:30:17 <tusho> who cares
20:30:25 <AnMaster> well me obviously
20:30:27 <AnMaster> :P
20:30:32 <tusho> tell me about it
20:30:58 <AnMaster> I don't know
20:34:07 <tusho> cool, my stylesheet fits in ten lines
20:34:56 <Deewiant> you ran it through CSSTidy? :-P
20:35:32 <Deewiant> ah no, that puts everything on one line
20:37:23 <tusho> Deewiant: well, a tidier
20:37:26 <tusho> but it's still pretty readable
20:37:32 <tusho> http://pastebin.ca/raw/1058380
20:38:37 <tusho> Deewiant: i'd organize it a bit different
20:38:40 <Deewiant> actually I think CSSTidy is fairly configurable, that's just max compression
20:38:40 <tusho> but that's pretty nice
20:39:16 <Deewiant> and well, that can't be compressed any more without removing a few spaces and line breaks :-)
20:39:40 <tusho> Deewiant: yes, I was commenting rather on its simplicity
20:39:47 <tusho> as it's still readable like that
20:40:43 <Deewiant> CSS is fairly readable
20:55:24 * SimonRC reads the /topic
20:55:27 <SimonRC> syntax error
21:00:07 <SimonRC> also, oerjan made me start reading another webcomic, damn him
21:05:36 <SimonRC> in honour of an old ELER strip
21:05:41 -!- tusho has set topic: overflowdisabledreadaboutitsothatitwillbeacyclicloop.
21:05:47 <tusho> SimonRC: ha, i thought of that strip
21:05:51 <tusho> then i was like 'nahh.. nobody reads eler'
21:06:11 <tusho> lord, it still hasn't been updated
21:06:31 <SimonRC> also, I found the world's best communication protocol: the port jump
21:06:59 <SimonRC> read word from memory-mapped port; don't increment IP, execute, repeat
21:08:35 <SimonRC> SEAforth chips have this capability
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21:12:34 <tusho> SimonRC: cool
21:12:39 <tusho> but isn't that a bit insecure
21:13:01 <SimonRC> these are on-chip ports
21:13:11 <tusho> o
21:13:11 <tusho> :p
21:13:20 <SimonRC> you may as well worry about your RAM comspiring against your processor
21:13:25 <tusho> i do
21:13:27 <tusho> i have nightmares about it
21:19:27 <SimonRC> even better, the code for "n times: [ read port, write port ]" fits in one instruction word
21:19:48 <tusho> SimonRC: kigforth goes how
21:20:44 <SimonRC> tusho: haven't touched it for months
21:21:12 <SimonRC> (... such techniques are used to initially load the programs into the 24 processors)
21:21:17 <tusho> SimonRC: you should
21:21:17 <tusho> :)
21:27:54 <SimonRC> whoa, that chip I was talking about...
21:28:09 <SimonRC> all 24 processors fit into an 8*8mm chip
21:28:19 <SimonRC> shit
21:29:08 <SimonRC> Alas they have so little memory
21:30:20 <tusho> SimonRC: i wonder what a decent functional-ly forth with some oop stuff would look like
21:30:24 <tusho> either lovely or horrible i guess
21:30:52 <SimonRC> now about factor
21:31:05 <SimonRC> they have irc on this net at #concatenative
21:31:20 <SimonRC> *How about Factor?
21:31:21 <tusho> i know about factor
21:31:25 <tusho> but it's kind of not what I was thinking of
21:31:26 <tusho> :\
21:31:53 <SimonRC> joy?
21:32:29 <SimonRC> Forth tries to be close to the machine and powerful rather than abstract and powerful.
21:33:14 <tusho> yes
21:33:20 <tusho> i'm thinking kind of like forth blended with joy
21:33:26 <tusho> with an angle neither have -
21:33:33 <tusho> _practical_ abstractions
21:33:39 <tusho> e.g. some elements of oop
21:36:01 * tusho writes an example of some sort
21:40:37 <tusho> SimonRC: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1058441
21:40:47 <tusho> the interesting thing there is that it's basically as syntaxless as forth. {...} is a lambda
21:41:15 <AnMaster> tusho, what language is that?
21:41:18 <AnMaster> looks very simple
21:41:20 <AnMaster> and nice
21:41:23 <tusho> AnMaster: just invented it
21:41:27 <tusho> thanks :)
21:41:39 <AnMaster> tusho, don't get the : double ... line though
21:41:46 <tusho> AnMaster: function definition
21:42:04 <tusho> it's a concatenative (aka stack based) languages
21:42:06 <tusho> *language
21:42:07 <AnMaster> tusho, what does that function do?
21:42:10 <tusho> so { 2 * } doubles
21:42:14 <AnMaster> oh I see
21:42:25 <AnMaster> why the starting :?
21:42:27 <tusho> it is remarkably readable for a concatenative language though :-P
21:42:35 <AnMaster> tusho, yes I agree
21:42:35 <tusho> AnMaster: that's the definer.
21:42:47 <tusho> : name { body }
21:42:48 <AnMaster> I would call it object orientated
21:42:52 <AnMaster> not concatenative
21:42:56 <AnMaster> from a first look at it
21:43:04 <tusho> AnMaster: but that's not actually integral to the language
21:43:08 <tusho> it could be implemented as a library
21:43:09 <AnMaster> oh it isn't?
21:43:12 <tusho> and probably would be
21:44:18 <AnMaster> tusho, what is called?
21:44:33 <tusho> AnMaster: i just invented it right now to show that example to SimonRC
21:44:37 <AnMaster> ah
21:44:38 <tusho> so you can probably guess that it's unnamed
21:44:45 <AnMaster> tusho, implement it fully!
21:44:47 <AnMaster> specs!
21:44:53 <tusho> AnMaster: i will!
21:44:55 <AnMaster> it got potential
21:45:11 <tusho> i would anyway, if only to see you maybe write a program in something that isn't c or bash :)
21:45:19 <tusho> (or an esolang)
21:45:24 <AnMaster> tusho, hah
21:45:34 <AnMaster> tusho, I have coded in pascal and apple script before
21:45:39 <AnMaster> oh and C#
21:45:40 <tusho> *g*
21:45:47 <AnMaster> tusho, but they are worse
21:45:47 <SimonRC> tusho: do you know how Forth programs are compiled?
21:45:49 <AnMaster> way worse
21:45:51 <tusho> SimonRC: yes
21:45:55 <tusho> i've read jonesforth a few times
21:45:59 <SimonRC> good
21:46:35 <tusho> SimonRC: do you like my little language?
21:46:40 <tusho> in it, class: etc are just words, of course
21:46:41 <SimonRC> alas, I get DNS errors for pastebin.ca
21:46:44 <tusho> huh
21:46:45 <tusho> okay
21:46:47 <tusho> i'll paste elsewhere
21:47:00 <tusho> http://rafb.net/p/0V40Bd52.txt
21:47:23 <AnMaster> tusho, well what do you think of C#, Pascal (Delphi style) and apple script
21:47:41 <tusho> c# has some nice functional things, better than java certainly
21:47:48 <tusho> pascal, well, it's alright :) tex and all
21:47:49 <AnMaster> tusho, C# 2.0 that is
21:47:56 <AnMaster> tusho, object pascal
21:48:00 <tusho> apple script, I Can't Believe It's Not English! Wait yes I can
21:48:07 <AnMaster> tusho, hahah :D
21:48:22 <AnMaster> tusho, but yes it sucks
21:50:35 <SimonRC> personally, I would extends using this syntax:
21:50:46 <SimonRC> parent class: child
21:51:08 <SimonRC> things with no superclass just use 0 or object as the parent
21:51:22 <tusho> SimonRC: my way allows for MI, though :-P
21:51:26 <tusho> anyway, if you don't like it
21:51:28 <tusho> write your own oop lib
21:51:35 <tusho> those features are totally orthogonal to the language
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21:51:39 <tusho> not built in at all
21:51:51 <SimonRC> I have seen simple OO for forth done in literally 1 screen of code
21:52:11 <AnMaster> SimonRC, same
21:52:15 <AnMaster> seen bashforth btw?
21:52:18 <AnMaster> quite cool
21:52:26 <tusho> SimonRC: yes, but my language is different in paradigm :)
21:52:27 * SimonRC googles
21:52:35 <tusho> there is one thing I can't figure out though, how to use methods and functions named the same
21:52:37 <tusho> like
21:52:43 <tusho> if I want a function named 'foo' but I have a method named foo
21:52:44 <SimonRC> my language is a paradigm too!
21:52:45 <tusho> and I do
21:52:50 <tusho> instance foo
21:53:02 <tusho> and the instance is on the class wth the method named foo
21:53:03 <tusho> kaboom
21:53:07 * SimonRC sucks at his teeth
21:53:26 <SimonRC> surely classes should be words that leave some speical address on the stack
21:53:45 <SimonRC> and anything that consumes a class consumes the speciall address of the class from the stack?
21:53:57 <tusho> SimonRC: You are thinking too low-level. :-P
21:54:01 <SimonRC> seems nice to me
21:54:09 <SimonRC> tusho: it's more forthy
21:54:15 <tusho> my language isn't very forthy
22:00:37 <tusho> SimonRC: how minimal do you think I can make my bootstrap language?
22:00:45 <tusho> hopefully, I want to make it like the lambda calculus of functional concatenative langs
22:02:47 <SimonRC> you could make lambda-abstractions and application the primitives?
22:03:01 <SimonRC> using de bruijn indexes of course
22:03:07 <tusho> SimonRC: hmm, example?
22:03:29 <SimonRC> actually, I am not quite sure how that would work
22:04:20 <SimonRC> the most primitive bootstrapping you could get away with is a "read word into memory" and an "execute"
22:04:23 <SimonRC> hmm
22:04:59 * SimonRC doesn't feel helpful
22:14:20 * SimonRC goes to bed
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23:05:26 <tusho> Bacl
23:17:14 <GregorR> 26 hours on planes and in airports = ROCK ON
23:18:34 <tusho> GregorR: yes
23:19:54 <GregorR> 26 hours on planes and in airports AFTER being awake for 24 hours = ROCK ON++
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23:28:14 <tusho> GregorR: Kittens
23:28:16 <tusho> ROCK ON
23:28:25 <GregorR> AGREED
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23:41:12 <cctoide> Rocks
23:47:46 <tusho> cctoide: GregorR: Socks!
23:49:00 <cctoide> SOCK ON
23:59:23 <tusho> cctoide: GregorR: 'SOCK EMPORIUM'
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