00:00:01 "Proof. With SCIENCE!" 00:00:06 oh thats very constructive. 00:00:10 (apparently you can use static rather than global, which is better since now it's confined to the file where the class is defined. So it's almost like a real class variable. Still it's just a C feature, and doesn't really work as a class variable due to the initialization issue) 00:00:23 i showed you how it was done, augur. 00:00:25 you just ignored me. 00:00:43 no, you said it could be done like so and so. 00:00:46 you showed nothing. 00:00:56 Lament, on the other hand, provided a quote from the specs. 00:01:04 or from the docs, rather. 00:01:31 the fact that you mock requests for evidence is all the demonstration anyone needs of your idiocy. 00:01:35 i said, and then showed code examples, augur. 00:01:47 see, if i go to ##c and ask them whether C has objects, and they say no, and if I then ask them to provide evidence from documentation for that 00:01:51 while lament backed up why this was as it was. 00:02:02 that would be somewhat unreasonable of me 00:02:03 the fact that you then go on to request evidence of your own, when i humorously make counter claims, is further proof. 00:02:26 i understand that lament, but this is not #objectivec 00:02:45 and its not unreasonable in this context 00:03:01 well, does C have objects? :) 00:03:11 given that Objective C is an OO language that has something that looks and behaves fairly similarly to class variables. 00:03:20 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 00:03:21 'humorously make counter claims' = 'troll while stating your point without any evidence after we have provided quite a bit' 00:03:46 tusho, you have yet to learn to finer points of parody. 00:03:59 you never provided evidence. 00:04:03 lament did, eventually. 00:04:06 if that was the finer points of parody, I prefer the coarser type 00:04:19 lament: just kick the kid :P 00:04:28 oklopol: kid is whom in this case? 00:04:34 pretty sure lament and me are arguing with augur 00:04:36 not any other combination 00:04:45 tusho: well, i usually agree with lament 00:04:52 (and while lament was telling you why it was the only way, I provided a code example showing that you _could do it that way_) 00:05:02 so, you figure 00:05:03 i think i agree with lament here too, for the most part. lol 00:05:05 (why would I be a duplicate of lament? we were sharing the work out.) 00:05:13 tusho 00:05:16 augur: ... but not me, even though I am making the same damn argument? 00:05:19 i never said you couldnt do it using global variables 00:05:41 you guys are funny 00:05:43 night -> 00:05:49 you werent making any arguments, which is the problem. you were making noise. 00:05:54 augur: fine, it sounded like you were. 00:06:01 you could have specified further. 00:06:09 specified what further? 00:06:14 there was nothing to specify 00:06:15 even so, the attacks made on me after that were completely unneccessary 00:06:35 i wasn't making any argument so there was nothing i could specify 00:08:20 i dont even know why it was such a fucking big deal to begin with 00:08:47 it wasn't, but you kept talking about it 00:08:49 so we did. 00:08:52 "er.. doesn't objc have class vars?" "no." "oh? but..." "actually, they're just globals: " 00:09:06 uh, tusho, i asked for evidence. 00:09:10 we gave it 00:09:11 after that it was all up to you. 00:09:16 no 00:09:18 LAMENT gave it 00:09:22 twenty minutes later 00:09:26 you gave nothing. 00:09:48 augur: instead of "oh? but...", there actually was a bunch of "yes it does. yes it does." 00:09:52 Anyone has trouble with ICQ? 00:10:11 actually lament, there was not "yes it does yes it does" 00:10:12 there was 00:10:22 but what about this: [NSColor redColor] and other examples. 00:10:35 which is the "but..." 00:10:36 and we explained actually augur 00:10:46 then you went back to yes it does. yes it does. 00:10:53 Slereah_: anyone who spells IQ with a C has trouble with their IQ! 00:11:10 tusho, read your logs. 00:11:34 always with the logs 00:11:39 i did. 00:11:41 same thing. 00:11:41 irc would be a better place without them 00:11:44 (gasp) 00:11:58 i said yes it does once 00:12:10 in saying that objective c has what amounts to class variables. 00:12:41 anyway this is silly. 00:12:45 now were arguing about arguing. 00:12:55 and all this does is breed bad blood. 00:13:03 im sorry i brought up your age against you, tusho. 00:13:25 pretty sure it bled bad blood when you faked a quote from RodgerTheGreat about me burning and them him agreeing, but I agree. let's shut up about it. this is ridiculous 00:13:26 :) 00:13:33 i promised not to do that and i broke that promise. 00:13:39 yes, okay. 00:13:41 apology accepted 00:14:02 uh.. i faked the quote with the fairly obvious fact that it was fake. :P 00:14:12 yeah, I was referring to his following up of it, not you 00:14:13 :p 00:14:15 but yeah. 00:14:21 let's talk about esolangs 00:14:21 :p 00:14:31 (LIKE OBJ-C CAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE CLASS VARIABLES HUR HUR HUR) 00:15:26 some people would say Obj C isnt object oriented. 00:15:53 then again, its a good question what object oriented really means, in the context of ObjC, given that Obj C is just sugar. 00:16:22 i think it's best to not attempt to define object-oriented 00:16:24 smalltalk is pretty close to 'real object orientation', i guess 00:16:36 there're programming languages, and they have features 00:16:53 i think Java is probably justifiably called object oriented 00:17:00 not ... really. 00:17:01 atleast in that it forces you to write with objects 00:17:08 alan kay would certainly barf 00:17:10 you cant do shit in Java without using objects 00:17:15 oh im sure alan kay would 00:17:20 doesn't make it object oriented though :) 00:17:39 and while i agree with him on this matter, he's not the smartest guy in the world. 00:17:53 so i wouldn't use his approval as the benchmark of OOness. 00:17:56 he's not, no 00:18:02 but java has several bad stuff 00:18:08 oh ofcourse it does 00:18:09 e.g. public slots 00:18:11 its horrible and vil 00:18:11 that's just wrong 00:18:12 :) 00:18:13 evil* 00:18:19 Java needs to die 00:18:22 and it is dying 00:18:28 just not fast enough 00:18:30 it uses them as a clutch because it doesn't haev sufficient metaprogramming abilities to define accessors easily 00:18:34 augur: thankfully the JVM isn't all that bad 00:18:41 so lots of languages are going on it 00:18:43 and reaping it's stdlib 00:18:45 which is nice 00:18:46 (or raping) 00:18:47 everything Java based i've ever used has been shitty 00:18:49 _everything_. 00:19:02 except tiny programs written by science people 00:19:19 raping? whats this about raping? 00:19:23 raping java's stdlib 00:19:25 for their own benefit 00:19:30 the new jvm languages 00:20:14 and here i thought we were talking about you again. 00:20:19 hahaha 00:20:22 you mean they're compiling to JVM byte code? 00:20:44 what the fuck is it that makes Java so fucking shitty? can someone explain this to me? 00:20:48 i mean, its always slow 00:20:50 buggy 00:21:06 and its supposed multiplatformality is a joke 00:21:10 augur: well, observer effect [ i think ] for one 00:21:15 it's not actually THAT bad 00:21:20 oh my god dude it is 00:21:20 but since you dislike it for being bad 00:21:28 its so fucking slow 00:21:28 it gets in your mind really really bad 00:21:31 and it's not slow 00:21:34 that's crap 00:21:36 it has a slow startup 00:21:39 but it is not slow, no way 00:21:42 no dude 00:21:48 it's not slow, augur :\ 00:21:48 everything ive used in Java is slow as fuck 00:21:59 ive written JAVASCRIPT that runs faster than these things 00:22:01 which is sad 00:22:06 :| 00:22:19 you say its not slow, but run azureus/vuze 00:22:31 its also a resource hog for no fucking reason 00:22:39 i just hate java 00:22:47 everything ive ever used that was java sucked. 00:22:50 thats all i know. 00:23:00 people tell me it doesnt suck but ive never seen it do anything but suck 00:23:01 azuerus is a memory hog and slow, augur 00:23:03 java itself isn't 00:23:08 it has a slow startup, but the language itself is fast 00:23:15 then i must be getting all the shit programs 00:23:25 because azureus is like all the rest ive used. 00:23:26 yes 00:23:32 there's a lot of shit java programs, no doubt :p 00:23:38 it makes it pretty darn easy to write them 00:23:42 but one thing it is not is particularly slow 00:23:59 but i can only form an opinion based on what ive used so my opinion is still that java blows. 00:24:12 s/java/a huge load of java applications/ 00:24:13 anyway 00:24:14 java does blow 00:24:21 but not quite as much as it seems to via applications 00:25:01 i think a lot of java hating is because people disagree with its philosophy 00:25:08 verbosity, etc 00:25:12 it's all for a reason 00:25:21 it promotes a specific type of software engineering 00:25:29 lament how old are you? 00:25:32 that many people justifiably dislike 00:25:40 augur: 11 00:25:58 damn. too young for the #esoteric orgy im planning. 00:26:07 i'm also straight. 00:26:10 lament: don't pretend. 00:26:14 we all know you're 7. 00:26:18 and gay 00:26:18 -!- timotiis has quit (Connection timed out). 00:26:20 we can tell from the way you speak! 00:26:21 :p 00:26:35 you have a lisp. we can hear it over the interwebs. 00:26:50 -!- Corun_ has changed nick to Corun. 00:27:03 slereah, are you coming? oklopol'll be there :o 00:27:09 define 'coming' 00:27:09 ::orgies with oklopol and slereah:: 00:27:18 <3youtusho 00:30:19 i don't have a lisp 00:30:20 PG has a lisp 00:30:41 it's a shitty lisp though 00:30:44 he even named it 00:31:16 ARC - stands for A Really Crappy 00:31:33 "ARC language" 00:31:46 lol 00:31:55 i dont know how much Arc varies from clisp 00:31:59 uh. 00:31:59 i like scheme tho. 00:32:00 very. 00:32:06 arc is just ... intolerably crap 00:32:12 why? 00:32:20 HOW TO MAKE ARC: 00:32:23 1. Announce it. 00:32:26 2. Hype it. For 5 years. 00:32:39 3. Write a 1000-line Arc->Scheme compiler that renames 'lambda' to 'fn' and makes a few names shorter. 00:32:42 yeah that was a long time to make a language for 00:32:46 4. Make sure it doesn't support unicode. 00:32:54 but atleast its not JS2 00:32:56 5. Write a crappy, crappy web app library that won't scale and frankly sucks. 00:32:57 JS2 has been in the works for on 00:32:58 oh 00:33:00 10 years 00:33:06 6. OMG!!!!! ARC!!! FUCK YEAH BITCHES I ROCK SUCK MY DICK <3 00:33:13 and its just Javariffic 00:33:29 i mean 10 years? 00:33:31 really? 00:33:41 who takes 10 years to design a language? 00:33:52 especially given the small amount thats been added 00:37:34 i've been learning a simple piano piece for 10 years 00:38:03 there's just always other stuff for me to do :) 00:42:48 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 00:44:57 you can learn a simple piano piece for life and still not grasp it, if its the right piece 00:45:18 but thats a completely different thing than adding classes to JS. 00:45:26 which is really all that JS2 amounts to. 00:45:50 er 00:45:57 js2 adds optional static typing with quite some nice types 00:46:01 namespaces 00:46:12 and tons more 00:46:28 including better debugging 00:46:33 a nicer browser api 00:46:34 (I believe) 00:46:45 and the type system is in fact very good 00:46:49 it can type higher order functions and all 00:48:21 oh, and does anyone find it funny how MS guys can never say javascript on their blogs 00:48:23 it's always jscript 00:53:27 -!- Slereah__ has quit ("kthxbai"). 01:01:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:01:23 thats because ms is afraid of getting sued by sun. 01:01:36 and i dont think any of those things warrant a 10 year development time. 01:01:44 they don't 01:01:46 but 01:01:55 'adding classes to JS./which is really all that JS2 amounts to' 01:01:59 i was responding to that 01:03:18 i dont think those other features will be used terribly much. 01:03:29 i think the only thing that will really be used extensively, and rightfully so, is the classes. 01:03:57 the debugging sure, but the API yes ofcourse 01:04:24 namespaces? probably not. 01:04:27 types? possibly. 01:04:38 uhm, all the ecmascript4 code people are prototyping up is in namespaces 01:04:41 they're just java packages 01:04:44 namespace foo.bar.baz; 01:05:01 quite a bit of it uses types, too 01:05:18 i mean in real programs, not the imaginary beta programs. :P 01:05:28 there are prototype compilers 01:05:33 so tusho are you coming to the #esoteric orgy? 01:05:35 and there are people using them for real to semi-real things 01:05:37 soo.. 01:05:39 and yes 01:05:43 awesome 01:05:48 oklopols place 01:05:56 why not my place 01:06:11 because you live with your parents. 01:06:28 and i dont think they want a bunch of guys from #esoteric fucking their son 01:06:31 and i don't? 01:06:31 i mean lets be serious 01:06:48 who wants #esoterics fucking their kids, its a terrifying prospect 01:06:54 many 19-year-olds live with their parents here 01:06:55 augur: same problem with oklopol, you know. 01:07:13 oklopol, you live with your parents? hm. i had figured you lived with your girlfriend. 01:07:21 since she seems to be around so much. 01:07:23 i haven't said either one of those 01:07:35 hotidlerchick! 01:07:56 well, i may have, but that data may be outdated 01:08:09 hot idler chick? 01:08:19 how i live isn't public info really 01:08:22 yeah very hot. 01:08:30 idler??? 01:08:37 oh 01:08:40 idle-er 01:08:41 ? 01:08:48 yes. 01:08:51 hotidlerchick. 01:09:01 -!- oklopol has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:09:01 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 01:09:02 now i see 01:09:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 01:09:13 theres a female in #esoteric? 01:09:15 and she's oklopol's girlfriend? 01:09:17 :O 01:09:26 supposedly 01:09:29 i think it's just oklopol though 01:09:32 his other machine 01:09:34 oklo, youre girlfriend lurks here? 01:09:37 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 01:09:40 hes netsplit augur 01:09:41 your* 01:09:49 you and your wild fantacies 01:09:51 first it was me, then it was my gf 01:09:53 when there's no proof it was either 01:09:55 not for me any more. 01:10:06 what? 01:10:07 ok then oklopol who is hotidlerchick 01:10:26 do i know who it is? 01:10:32 on what grounds 01:10:42 oklo, lemme see your girly 01:10:55 you guys are silly :) 01:10:55 oklopol: same ip, dude 01:10:56 same ip 01:11:07 and they type like you 01:11:10 and you never talk at the same time 01:11:39 tusho: i doubt we've ever had the same ip, but otherwise that sounds pretty sound. 01:11:41 now hes gonna write a script that lets him randomize message send times by half a second 01:12:00 oklopol, show me your girly 01:12:11 :D 01:12:11 or better yet, show me you, naked, in high resolution 01:12:18 i'll show you everything 01:12:24 and more 01:12:27 hot 01:12:27 ::waits:: 01:13:45 well? cmon! 01:14:18 * oklopol presses send 01:14:38 uh huh 01:14:42 augur: i assume you will be posting it in here for scientific study relating to the orgy. 01:14:44 wait wut 01:15:08 tusho, i agree with you: wait wut 01:15:12 nooo it was just fo you my darling 01:15:14 *for 01:15:14 cmon oklopol. WHERE IS IT 01:15:41 i will share nothing, have no fear! 01:15:59 i think the hotness of the pic made the tubes tighten up. 01:16:09 augur: he's pulling an augur 01:16:11 and it didn't get through 01:16:12 lolololololol 01:16:27 its not a dumptruck its a series of tubes! 01:18:27 i don't understand 01:18:40 please speak slowlier 01:19:02 its a quote from an the american senator from alaska 01:19:17 the quote that spawned the whole "tubes" thing 01:19:19 augur: dude. he knows that. 01:19:22 :p 01:19:32 he might not, hes finnish. 01:19:39 and lives in finland. 01:19:41 they dont have the internet there! 01:19:59 augur: i don't understand what you meant by that, yes, that was what i was referring to 01:20:13 hey we have lots of internet! 01:20:39 we basically eat it for dinner 01:20:56 i hear its tasty smoked 01:27:36 -!- tusho has quit. 01:30:31 ok night guys 01:30:42 n 01:44:32 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:44:58 -!- cherez has joined. 02:22:05 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:16:11 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:24:11 -!- moozilla has joined. 04:29:19 oklopol: oh haha, I get the joke- you type with your hands 04:32:32 <:D 05:13:45 -!- Parma-Quendion has joined. 05:14:21 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 05:15:40 -!- Quendus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:17:37 -!- Parma-Quendion has changed nick to Quendus. 06:15:38 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 09:10:19 -!- augur has joined. 09:12:26 RodgerTheGreat: good for you, i was not as lucky 09:16:50 o.o 10:49:00 -!- Corun has joined. 11:05:41 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:50:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:54:33 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 13:05:34 -!- fizzie has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:05:34 -!- atsampson has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:05:34 -!- Dewi has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:05:34 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:05:34 -!- shachaf has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:08:22 -!- atsampson has joined. 13:08:22 -!- Dewi has joined. 13:08:22 -!- shachaf has joined. 13:08:22 -!- lifthras1ir has joined. 13:08:22 -!- fizzie has joined. 13:53:10 -!- Corun has joined. 14:22:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:35:17 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:06:53 -!- oklopol has joined. 15:28:11 -!- timotiis has joined. 15:36:22 -!- pikhq has left (?). 15:40:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:49:30 ooo 15:58:52 -!- timotiis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:04:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:20:34 -!- tusho has joined. 16:20:51 hi ais523 16:20:53 hi tusho 16:21:04 at least that time I started writing before your message arrived 16:21:11 but yours came before I finished typing it 16:21:18 I typed it after joining. 16:21:25 yes 16:21:26 So yay. that was fair. 16:21:30 you win that one fairly 16:27:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:23 -!- Oyama has joined. 16:40:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:40:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:59:17 -!- Oyama has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:09:30 -!- oklopol has quit ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )"). 17:30:29 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:33:09 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:34:48 hi oklopol 17:36:28 hi 17:36:44 are you in the mood for learning more INTERCAL? 17:36:48 or should I do something else? 17:37:27 i'm in the mood 17:37:53 well, before I had to go yesterday I gave you a simple program that did output to run 17:38:03 READ OUT is the output command 17:38:15 and #123 is how you write the constant 123 in INTERCAL 17:38:23 yep 17:38:29 although INTERCAL supports numbers up to 32-bit, constants can be at most 16-bit 17:38:41 and you need to use expressions in order to create larger values 17:38:48 yeah 17:39:11 also, READ OUT outputs in Roman Numerals 17:39:16 yeah, noticed 17:39:26 and it can only be used to output variables or constants 17:39:32 also think i've heard oerjan or you mention it 17:39:36 okay 17:39:39 if you want to output an expression, you have to assign it to a variable first 17:39:57 ok, probably best to move onto variables now 17:40:05 you have 65535 16-bit variables 17:40:10 and 65535 32-bit variables 17:40:20 a 16-bit's variable's name is . followed by a number 17:40:21 okay 17:40:21 such as .1 17:40:32 and a 32-bit variable's name is : followed by a number 17:40:33 like :10 17:40:37 okay 17:40:46 you assign to a variable using the <- command 17:40:50 as in DO .1 <- #10 17:40:55 yep 17:41:41 so you can write a simple test program like this: 17:41:49 DO .1 <- #10 DO READ OUT .1 PLEASE GIVE UP 17:42:00 yeah would print X 17:42:02 (whitespace is unimportant in INTERCAL, sort of like it is in C) 17:42:19 also, note that the DO/PLEASE ratio becomes important once you have at least 3 commands 17:42:31 the ratio must be from 2:1 to 4:1 to avoid an error 17:42:33 i'm assuming #'s are in base 10 17:42:38 oklopol: yes, they are 17:42:41 because you didn't mention anything about a base 17:42:43 okay. 17:42:52 the opposite of READ OUT is WRITE IN, by the way 17:42:58 you have to spell out the number as digits in allcaps 17:43:00 like ONE TWO THREE 17:43:01 sounds feasible 17:43:03 when entering the number 17:43:14