< 1216598482 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like... introspection of code behavior? < 1216598516 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this calls that, do this? < 1216598722 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216599548 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216601263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Question: should I cease my current "stuck in the mountains, not shaved for weeks" look and go back to my usual goatee? < 1216601313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: err < 1216601339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: inbetween < 1216601351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just mean an object, when created, would get to know if it's only used in simple ways < 1216601359 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in...trim it up but don't shave it. < 1216601360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that can be ensured < 1216601360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol your girlfriend is interrogating me! :( < 1216601367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i know < 1216601369 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216601373 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrrr < 1216601395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: keep the current one < 1216601410 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmmm... ah < 1216601418 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any language I know of. < 1216601426 0 :bwr!n=william@67.60.252.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216601428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But I like having a goatee. < 1216601428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that might be interesting. < 1216601444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216601454 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: trimming does not require the losing of a goatee. < 1216601455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i always like languages hanging on the edge of being impossible to implement :D < 1216601469 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I could see it being impossible < 1216601474 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wouldn't straightforward, you know. < 1216601477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it is in general, yes < 1216601485 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1216601487 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possible < 1216601489 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216601489 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in most cases the object would just get the "no idea how you're used" message < 1216601515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on what kind of interpreter/compiler you have to. < 1216601520 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a single-pass interpreter, for example. < 1216601528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You suggested trimming, but keeping my current look. Which means: trimmed full beard, not a goatee. :p < 1216601531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, I think, you'd need to initialize it at that state. < 1216601562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'm not following you. < 1216601581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to be compiled. < 1216601587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not necessarily < 1216601590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but preferably < 1216601595 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... you can't know how an object is used at the point its created... so it would be impossible to give it anything but a don't know message. < 1216601597 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until later. < 1216601603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a single-pass interpreter, that is < 1216601611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, yeah, that's not possible. < 1216601620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would most likely be compiled < 1216601629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you compile... or do something inbetween... then you can analyze how it is used later... before its created at runtime. < 1216601631 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216601638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's the idea < 1216601649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll try adding that to straw < 1216601660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that and the mutation stuff, it would actually be quite a unique piece of art. < 1216601707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no straw lesson will be given today, in case someone would've been interested < 1216601710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry! < 1216601718 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why do I not have links to any of your language specs. < 1216601730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i rarely spec them < 1216601765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i could spec straw up at least a bit. < 1216601893 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a link to straw? < 1216601918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a link to one short example, but i'm afraid even that is a bit outdated < 1216601932 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.vjn.fi/oklopol/straw.txt < 1216601940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot more static nowadays < 1216601967 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216601987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, one of the fun things is already there < 1216602008 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1216602033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you do "n = 1", you can add 1 to n so that n changes value by doing n._inc < 1216602038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n would be 2 after that < 1216602051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you did n.inc, you'd get n+1 without modifying n < 1216602065 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216602073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fun part is, you can just write the code to do either of these two, and you can immediately use both ways < 1216602113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-time checks for making sure methods without an underscore don't modify the program state < 1216602125 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's neat < 1216602147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but that's basically the tip of the iceberg, i have quite a lot of ideas for this one < 1216602170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been piling up the ideas too practical for esolangs into it :P < 1216602192 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1216602252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to write the AverageKeeper class and see if i find a nice way to do the "optimization hints" < 1216602268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a affinity with languages that use their source code as their primary data structure. < 1216602282 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lisp? < 1216602289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bwr: lisp does not do that < 1216602292 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216602294 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah < 1216602296 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was going to say < 1216602300 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean then < 1216602310 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dupdog is a very bad example. < 1216602315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was not thought at all < 1216602315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say befunge without a stack, and just p/g < 1216602322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you know befunge < 1216602329 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, i've used befunge < 1216602334 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i always used the stack < 1216602352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well p and g set/read a value to/from the program space < 1216602360 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1216602362 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it now < 1216602380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, that any conceptual memory and instruction pointers would exist in the same space < 1216602388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the von neumann structure i guess < 1216602389 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog literally just used the entire source code < 1216602390 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its state. < 1216602393 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is the one esolang i have done anything with :P it was fun < 1216602399 0 :garotosopa!n=diogo@unaffiliated/garotosopa JOIN :#esoteric < 1216602412 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like something more structured though. < 1216602422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is quite nice to program, yes < 1216602435 0 :garotosopa!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1216602700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ahahaha... functional dupdog. < 1216602718 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ggggggggggggggggggggggggg?(gggggggg?gggggggggggggggg?ggggggggggggg?) < 1216602782 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1216602790 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... if say < 1216602799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codehere(codethere) < 1216602812 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the instructions in codehere manipulated the code in codethere. < 1216602837 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216602840 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what I'm thinking. < 1216603143 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nah... not like that. < 1216603163 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more like... < 1216603260 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g > ee ee >> lo < ee < ee < 1216603274 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the brackets tell you which instructions modify what. < 1216603291 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any befunge compilers that actually compile? the only ones i've seen wrap the befunge in a C interpreter and then you compile it. < 1216603312 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's weird < 1216603321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bwr: it's not really compilable < 1216603341 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1216603343 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bwr, ...thank you. that is now my cue that I've found a decent idea. < 1216603343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have such immense control over the codespace as a 2d structure < 1216603386 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem like that big of a problem < 1216603425 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i'll be interested to see how that works < 1216603460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at the very least you need to have a compiler in the executable, and you have to have the source there too, in some form, as the code can be changed on the fly. < 1216603474 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also gives you the ability to have binary instructions... sort of. < 1216603491 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a befunge program can read any byte in the source, so the source must actually exist at runtime. < 1216603508 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216603561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "this instruction does such and such if the source code being modified, source code A, contains more instructions than the source code that A modified, source code B" < 1216603579 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216603607 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your operands are also your operators. < 1216603616 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am confused < 1216603617 0 :bwr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216603631 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will have to be /just/ right. < 1216603636 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it will be a mess. < 1216603641 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1216603645 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be a bad mess < 1216603646 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of a good mess. < 1216603648 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1216603665 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if make one instruction lt < 1216603671 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one instruction tl < 1216603678 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other instructions that reverse words < 1216603686 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have... something. < 1216603736 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something like la da la da > de do de do < < 1216603741 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a self-modifying loop. < 1216603744 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of some... sort. < 1216603845 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to find the eureka moment... where it figures out how everything will become usable. < 1216604309 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopollll < 1216604313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your girlfriend likes my voice :( < 1216604315 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it frightens me < 1216604335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216604340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she likes many voices < 1216604514 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1216604627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p565622232.txt straw is getting a bit more oklo :) < 1216604639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rewriting syntax will probably change < 1216604644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least somewhat < 1216604694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#calls {{ this.getavg( ?s ) }} is the interesting part, special keyword that kinda searches the code for a certain expression < 1216604731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd get a list of calls to the method calculating the average < 1216604742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't conceptually all that pretty, but that's not my point anyway here < 1216604747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not all < 1216604777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should unify the syntax a bit though < 1216604790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all kinds of prefixes and brackets flying about < 1216604837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216605117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p464321425.txt dropped the highlevel rewriting, <<<...>>> is now simply a list of occurrances < 1216605144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except as a right-side of a substitution, where it is kinda highlevel again :) < 1216605222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually @ "dotPrefixed.setvar = <<< this.?var = ?var >>>" the <<<...>>> notates a simple quoted piece of code < 1216605227 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-69-76-143-134.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216605230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so guess i should use a different bracket type < 1216605243 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1216605263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i'm just defining here that you can use the syntax .var in a method's parameter list to set a field < 1216605403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** separates the two tiers, kinda, if you have n tiers, where n!=1, the first two would be parsed, then the first one run, but all <<<...>>>'s referring to the second code < 1216605421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can define new syntax in an imperative fashion in the language itself < 1216605438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all a bit ugly in a language where syntax isn't initially simple < 1216605446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't care < 1216605545 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-69-76-143-134.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216608684 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if only ASCII had more brackets. < 1216608704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1216609550 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216611106 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know where the curly brackets come from. < 1216611111 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, technically < 1216611126 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're supposed to enclose multiple lines :o < 1216611140 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do those one line curly brackets come from? < 1216611328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutation < 1216611343 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onoes! < 1216611357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolution in action < 1216611358 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it... INTELLIGENT DESIGN? < 1216611363 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least stupid design < 1216611372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it was, before the mutations started < 1216611467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it is all clear now. evolution is the work of satan. we were really supposed to all be happy single-celled bacteria < 1216611483 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACTERIAS? < 1216611486 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....why does everyone care about terseness < 1216611496 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until < 1216611498 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT'S WRONG WITH AUTOREPLICATING RNA STRANDS? < 1216611500 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they define an XML spec. < 1216611502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, bacteria. the singular is bacterium. < 1216611527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg1e77lRRjk&NR=1 < 1216611529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were just the prototype < 1216611553 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 squiggles 0?! < 1216611576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fucking blew my mind < 1216611589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this girl seriously needs a timecube of her own < 1216611596 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1216611599 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rofl < 1216611599 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems terribly stupid < 1216611604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. < 1216611614 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also her voices echo < 1216611616 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'm watching it < 1216611617 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She must be God < 1216611620 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'" < 1216611633 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't understand anything she says < 1216611634 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she might be just talking about vedic junk < 1216611635 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. < 1216611646 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPEAK WITH ONLY ONE VOICE, CRAZY WOMAN < 1216611647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah__: she could be just using the Royal We < 1216611653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this vedic i've been hearing for the past 5 minutes? < 1216611669 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dude, if you start at 1 and break a circle into 9 equal parts. 0 IS 9" < 1216611670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vedic == ancient indian, essentially < 1216611673 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't there a story about Wiener and a squiggle? < 1216611705 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like he was with a collegue in front of a blackboard with just a squiggly line on it < 1216611707 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIGIT SUM LEVEL < 1216611708 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmfao < 1216611710 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSHI < 1216611729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, modulo 9, 9 is a lot like 0 < 1216611731 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they were very absorbed by the reflection < 1216611746 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no one ever knew what it meants :o < 1216611761 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's hard to know with Wiener's anecdotes < 1216611777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should devote my life to killing people who don't know the difference between a number and its base 10 representation. < 1216611790 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vedas are stupid < 1216611791 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1216611794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just get me so fucking angry < 1216611794 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are < 1216611795 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216611802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was wiener's famous dachshound involved? < 1216611831 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan : It could be! < 1216611837 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just tell that exact same story around you < 1216611841 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And add the dog < 1216611846 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how anecdotes work! < 1216611847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216611872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i should do a sleep to now sleep. -> < 1216611890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be for the best < 1216611914 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is you near your girlfriend? < 1216611933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216611954 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. nevermind then. < 1216611964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no do tell anyway < 1216611974 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its kind of pointless now. :P < 1216612038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but tell anyway < 1216612049 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get off irc, dont be lame. go cuddle. < 1216612054 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216612063 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not relevant :P < 1216612069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216612084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can cuddle myself < 1216612095 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pics or it didnt happen. < 1216612123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fresh batch coming soon just ya wait ::::) < 1216612129 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1216612145 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, i sleep now, and no, you will not be getting naked pictures tonight :P < 1216612146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1216612155 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont want naked pictures < 1216612160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of a dilbert cartoon where dilbert cuddles himself in front of camera to convince his mother he has a girlfriend < 1216612161 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho i wont refuse them :D < 1216612428 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also an episode of Dilbert. < 1216612434 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who'd like to hug?" < 1216612442 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you see Asok hugging himself. < 1216612448 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, you mean each other." < 1216612594 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1216612893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, once again some old math problem i heard ages ago pops into my head just as i'm about to sleep, and i just solve it instantly < 1216612912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case i recall that one problem correctly, would have to ask ihope < 1216613024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it was like, basically, you have a 2d tilemap, cell at x,y connected to those (x',y') with abs(x-x')==1 xor abs(y-y')==1 < 1216613024 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the problem? < 1216613029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1216613030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216613037 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o; < 1216613059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to find the biggest structure such that by removing a cell there are no connected structures of size n or bigger < 1216613094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand but ok :D < 1216613112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2d tilemap, cell at x,y connected to those (x',y') with abs(x-x')==1 xor abs(y-y')==1" was a very weird explanation. < 1216613116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216613117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1216613128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2d matrix, like. < 1216613140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that nodes are connected to their four neighbors < 1216613150 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216613161 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a square graph like structure < 1216613173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i guess < 1216613175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1216613211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was wondering whether the obvious solution, a cross of height and width 2n+1 < 1216613214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the optimal < 1216613229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's clear we can only separate four structures with removing one node < 1216613229 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure what the problem is tho :D < 1216613235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1216613236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just < 1216613251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an initial connected structure < 1216613255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one node is removed < 1216613266 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is the structure? < 1216613269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such that there are no connected structures of size n or bigger anymore < 1216613278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to find the biggest such structure < 1216613288 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1216613294 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what are the restrictions?? < 1216613313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, all we have i think so far is just a square grid and "maximize the size of this square grid" < 1216613322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be able to split it into structures less than n in size by removing some node < 1216613337 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont entirely follow. < 1216613341 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to sleep. bye. < 1216613342 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216613346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1216613351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't unless you get it < 1216613352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1216613352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216613360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's hard about it :P < 1216613361 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i refuse to get it. go to sleep. < 1216613370 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your explanation is whats hard, but thats ok. go to sleep. < 1216613410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem: for some n you need to find the largest connected structure such that there is a node whose removal will split the structure into structures less than n in size < 1216613432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithm is a function from an integer n to such a structure < 1216613445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216613448 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what determines what n is? and what determines the shape of the structure? etc < 1216613450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the algorithm we're looking for < 1216613462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you need to find it for any given n < 1216613467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shape can be anything < 1216613473 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do all nodes need to be connected to 4 other nodes? < 1216613486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just some structure consisting of nodes on a grid like this < 1216613536 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, take an infinitely large square grid and remove two intersecting axes, and add a node that connects the four at the corners < 1216613544 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that structure is infinitely large. < 1216613547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem: for all n you need to find the largest connected structure such that there is a node whose removal will split the structure into structures less than n in size < 1216613552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*connected structures < 1216613562 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, the substructures are also i guess infinitely large < 1216613575 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works for all squares that could form those corners < 1216613577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is not largest < 1216613584 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless im misunderstanding the problem. < 1216613587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: so what do you remove to get it to split into structures less than n in size? < 1216613599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remove the middle cell, you get four infinite structures < 1216613605 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i said that already :p < 1216613608 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n need not be infinity, that's one of the trivial cases < 1216613610 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you used four squares < 1216613614 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any square < 1216613615 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anything < 1216613619 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no largest < 1216613627 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you do split it into structures smaller than the original one < 1216613629 0 :vollmond!n=vollmond@24-117-17-23.cpe.cableone.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216613631 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no largest < 1216613659 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because obviously you can just add more nodes to any of the substructures so long as they dont connect the substructures < 1216613664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no largest such structure? there are multiple equally good structures in size. < 1216613671 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there can be no largest < 1216613676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1216613679 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take four squares and connect them at the corner < 1216613680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well say n is 3 < 1216613691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n is three you have what sort of structure? < 1216613694 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-o-o? < 1216613697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you saying you can have the initial structure infinite? < 1216613698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where o is a node and - is a connection < 1216613698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1216613711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the biggest you can do < 1216613727 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me just make sure im getting this correct < 1216613732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 is < 1216613751 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n is three, what is an example of such a structure < 1216613767 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i dont think im following < 1216613779 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to see an example of possible structures < 1216613785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p333224163.txt < 1216613787 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a largest possible structure < 1216613794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the largest possible < 1216613799 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that n = 0 < 1216613801 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1216613802 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n = 3 < 1216613810 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how is that the largest < 1216613813 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define largest < 1216613815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because by removing the middle you get four structures of size 2 < 1216613827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define largest by the fact there is no larger one. < 1216613843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is largeness < 1216613846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was just proving this, which is of course trivial < 1216613850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1216613853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of nodes. < 1216613856 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216613881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial, but still scary when it just slams into your face when you're trying to sleep :P < 1216613898 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im not entirely sure i follow still but < 1216613909 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the 3 do? < 1216613912 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does 3 come in? < 1216613922 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just some number? < 1216613930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem: for all n you need to find the largest connected structure such that there is a node whose removal will split the structure into structures less than n in size < 1216613935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n can be 3 too. < 1216613941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can be any integer < 1216613944 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if thats the case then the largest structure will always be (n-1)*4+1 in size < 1216613952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216613965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was just proving that < 1216613968 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1216613973 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats to prove? < 1216613981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that there's no bigger one < 1216613985 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the middle node divides the single node into at most four smaller nodes < 1216613991 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1216613993 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four smaller structures < 1216614001 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since no node can connect to more than 4 other nodes < 1216614011 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the biggest would have 4 substructures as a result < 1216614021 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since no substructure can have more than n nodes < 1216614027 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must have n-1 nodes < 1216614030 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the gist is simply that removing a node that can have at most 4 edges from it to others can only split the graph into 4 subgraphs < 1216614040 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus each of the four substructures has n-1 nodes < 1216614048 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you have (n-1)*4 nodes < 1216614053 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the node you remove at the center < 1216614058 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shape itself is irrelevant. < 1216614072 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see why this is an interesting problem < 1216614080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1216614087 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why are you trying to solve it? :( < 1216614090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give you the other one i solved < 1216614091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216614094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre confusing < 1216614095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't trying to solve it < 1216614096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to sleep < 1216614103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise he won't be _able_ to sleep < 1216614111 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you werent trying to but you did solve it? :P < 1216614112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't trying to solve it, i just solved it < 1216614114 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216614115 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to sleep, oklopol :p < 1216614116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216614120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one is more interesting < 1216614122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1216614125 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to sleep. < 1216614127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, after this mess i'm not sure if he will be able to anyhow < 1216614128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not listening < 1216614137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an NxN matrix < 1216614141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: will you listen? < 1216614141 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1216614192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, for me it's morning so i don't need to sleep... < 1216614193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, at the topmost row of the matrix you have numbered nodes from 1 to N < 1216614222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right (in order?) < 1216614226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216614228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first < 1216614232 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its morning for oklopol too! < 1216614235 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasnt slept yet! < 1216614239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you take kinda steps towards the bottom < 1216614256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that each of these numbers can move either left or right one step each time you go one row down < 1216614280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, no two nodes with the adjacent numbers can be more than 1 column apart, ever < 1216614288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have kinda like a chain < 1216614295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the problem was jut < 1216614297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1216614309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean separated by more than one column? < 1216614311 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, i presume you wrap? < 1216614313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove that there is no set of movements that makes this chain move away from the matric < 1216614315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matrix < 1216614320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1216614336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move out of it just by moving one right from the right edge or the other way around < 1216614349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrix was just an explanation of the form, not anything mathematical. < 1216614356 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. < 1216614359 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont follow again :D < 1216614360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1216614361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216614377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't either < 1216614391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's try again :) < 1216614399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can a number stay in place? < 1216614405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes. < 1216614412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can move right, left, or stay put < 1216614423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216614423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1216614428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all numbers move or stay simultaneously at each step < 1216614429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two can be on the same spot. < 1216614437 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1216614444 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that you can't have adjacent numbers two apart < 1216614461 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean adjacent numbers < 1216614461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise everything can move freely, although at most one to either direction on each step < 1216614466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 2 are < 1216614469 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean ok < 1216614469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 and 3 are < 1216614473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 and 6 aren't < 1216614473 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between rows < 1216614475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1216614480 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no two neighboring numbers can different by more than 1 < 1216614491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is preventing you from eventually merging all numbers into one spot then? < 1216614491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so whats the goal now? < 1216614497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nothing < 1216614500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't solve it. < 1216614502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it? < 1216614509 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all numbers move simultaneously in each row < 1216614513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goal is to get them all out of the matrix before the last row < 1216614514 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1216614515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then move them in tandem whereever you want < 1216614538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there are only N rows < 1216614544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you have a limited number of steps < 1216614544 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you mean move them all N to the left or right in less than N steps < 1216614555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes, NxN matrix < 1216614563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: yes exactly < 1216614572 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really the problem is this: < 1216614579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. 1 doesn't have time to leave right, N doesn't have time to leave left? < 1216614591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, they can leave at either end < 1216614596 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move an object left or right by a total of N places in under N moves, moving only one place at a time < 1216614606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um then what's the problem? < 1216614608 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case i dont think its possible < 1216614611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: err not exactly < 1216614617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move N left, move N and N-1 left, and so on < 1216614621 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: thats what it amounts to tho. < 1216614625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there wasn't the constraint that adjacent numbers need to be adjacent < 1216614627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is time enough < 1216614636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just move half out from the left, and half out the rightt < 1216614638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1216614657 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i thought you said the whole row had to move as one? < 1216614658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what is preventing you from moving all left as fast as you can? < 1216614664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no, i didn't < 1216614670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you won't get the last one out < 1216614672 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well then. < 1216614681 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you had that restriction :p < 1216614687 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i didnt, then the solution is obvious. < 1216614690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i do < 1216614692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in other words, there isn't time for N to leave left, which i already asked < 1216614714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said there was < 1216614727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i prolly misunderstood < 1216614740 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, the solution is plainly obvious < 1216614745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, 1 _must_ leave leftwards, N _must_ leave rightwards. < 1216614752 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimum number of steps is Ceiling(N/2) < 1216614759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: yes, true < 1216614760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do prove it < 1216614760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1216614769 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all movement is left one at a time < 1216614771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1216614775 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or right < 1216614779 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one space at a time < 1216614786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you won't get the last one out < 1216614789 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1216614791 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me finish < 1216614796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1216614796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this implies at least _some_ adjecent numbers must leave in different places, a contradiction < 1216614802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adjacent < 1216614806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, that's it. < 1216614818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :item m will take m steps to get out < 1216614824 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it gets out on row m+1 < 1216614854 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go in one direction < 1216614868 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and N-m steps if you go in the other direction < 1216614896 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not N-m actually sorry < 1216614899 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-m+1 < 1216614909 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so item 1 gets out in 1 step, going left < 1216614919 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and N steps going right < 1216614924 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 gets out in 2 steps going left < 1216614927 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-1 going right < 1216614928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1216614973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: so far so good < 1216615003 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for item N/2 and N/2+1 for an even N, the number of steps left for item N/2 is the same as the number of steps right for item N/2+1 < 1216615041 0 :vollmond!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1216615045 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N-(N/2+1)+1 = N-N/2-1+1 = N/2 < 1216615065 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for even N, after N/2, going left will increase the number of steps < 1216615068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway that was, for some reason, confusing to me when i first heard it... although probably i was just not really familiar with the concept of "knowing, yet proving" < 1216615083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not confusing, but i didn't come up with a proof < 1216615096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for N/2 for odd N, it doesnt matter which direction you choose since its in the middle. < 1216615108 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho that explanation is painful and unnecessary. < 1216615138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: err was that the proof? < 1216615147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much of a proof as im going to give. < 1216615156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err okay, i don't see a proof there < 1216615162 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1216615164 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its clear. < 1216615190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems you've proved for all N, for any item in the toprow, there is a way to get it out in N-1 steps < 1216615198 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216615207 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i proved that its possible to get it out in Ceil(N/2) steps < 1216615208 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216615225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1216615233 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for items < N/2, move left, for items > N/2 move right < 1216615242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216615244 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only need to make N/2 moves. < 1216615255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all you *cannot* solve that < 1216615262 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1216615264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is about proving it's impossible < 1216615286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constraint that two adjacent numbers cannot be apart more than one column is there. < 1216615305 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you need to go back and specify what that means i think < 1216615313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216615316 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your previous explanation permitted what i just said. < 1216615317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there cannot be a row < 1216615344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there are two indices A and B such that |A-B|>1 and |array[A]-array[B]|=1 < 1216615360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what that means. < 1216615364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1216615373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all adjacent numbers need to be at most one column apart < 1216615384 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does adjacent mean in this context. < 1216615391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 2 are adjacent < 1216615396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 and 3 are adjacent < 1216615401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 and 3 aren't adjacent < 1216615406 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. i think i follow. < 1216615412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> shower < 1216615419 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in that case, its not possible. < 1216615432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not, the point was to prove tat < 1216615432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1216615450 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that proof was part of the set up for the other longer one i did :P < 1216615465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err can you show it again? < 1216615474 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any item m < 1216615491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving left will take m steps since its m from the edge < 1216615499 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving right will take N-m+1 steps < 1216615513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, duh < 1216615526 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you cannot separate the items but more than 1 space < 1216615529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like interrupting a long explanation like that, just continue :) < 1216615569 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot spread the items in any way that leaves a gap N in size between two items < 1216615576 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning spreading them all apart will do no good < 1216615592 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because atleast one will still be in the square < 1216615598 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so spreading as a whole is useless < 1216615617 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus only moving them in the same direction is a way of getting them out of the square < 1216615632 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that means that it would take N steps for item N < 1216615650 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which violates the constraint that it be done in | < 1216617019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1216617039 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::pounce:: < 1216617078 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets make a truly queer language oklopol. < 1216617084 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something thats really different. < 1216617092 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not painfully hard or whatever < 1216617098 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no funges or brainfucks or the like < 1216617107 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with a completely different perspective on computation < 1216617302 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this has already been done. < 1216617309 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1216617314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome to do it again. < 1216617345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, xkcd is ... weird. < 1216617356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one reason why we love it, i assume < 1216617360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows it been done < 1216617369 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i know it HAS, most new paradigms are like that < 1216617375 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wanna know < 1216617383 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i like weird and different models of computation < 1216617417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it was not a tease, i was actually going to show you my face on webcam. < 1216617424 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216617426 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216617432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just my computer crashed for 15 minutes < 1216617442 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1216617458 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a mac :D < 1216617484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1216617495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason this program i used to use the webcam with, or used once trying to check if it works, crashed when i retried it a while ago < 1216617501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashing the whole computer for ages < 1216617531 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1216617543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, at first it seemed that if skyped does it also, then might be something @ my configurations, and vista's just taking its usual approach to that kinda thing < 1216617554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually < 1216617577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skype opened the fucking program that crashes this computer when opened the webcam feed with, just after i'd gotten it to quit < 1216617581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the comp jammed again < 1216617582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now < 1216617589 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1216617595 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a mac :) < 1216617596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know whether it's skype, or just trying to access the webcam < 1216617622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i can do most things with my current set. < 1216617636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch videos, irc and code < 1216617642 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except jerk off on camera for me < 1216617644 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean uh < 1216617652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that i can't do. < 1216617663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if i can live with that, need to ponder the issue < 1216617666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1216617668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1216617672 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally! < 1216617676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216617682 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::kisscheek:: night < 1216617684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got pretty tired looking at the black screen < 1216617686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1216617705 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, xkcd, weird, why? < 1216617751 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today < 1216617761 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1216617798 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmfao wtf XD < 1216617888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link! < 1216617889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216617895 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO TO SLEEP < 1216617900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1216617900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/ < 1216617908 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go have wet dreams about me. :X < 1216618230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1216619598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Omnibus" < 1216620922 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...John Mayer is very very good. < 1216620933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not expect so much win from a pop type. < 1216621088 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1216621161 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm|--0@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1216625465 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216626857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway i doubt AnMaster knows even all european capitals, just scandinavia + the ones that are historically relevant < 1216626876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madrid, Paris, Rome, Berlin, London, what more do you want? < 1216626910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Athens < 1216626923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Belgrade < 1216626934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dublin < 1216626942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisabon < 1216626951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moscow < 1216626981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course Oslo, Helsinki, Stockholm, Copenhagen < 1216626987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reykjavik < 1216627014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warsawa (or is it Warsaw in English?) < 1216627053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm Turkey, that would be Ankara < 1216627074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bb going to swim < 1216627199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1216627200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1216627626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've pretty much left most of Eastern Europe out. There's at least Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius, Budapest, Prague, Bucharest. And that's very much not an exhaustive list. (Also at least Vienna, Bern missing in Western/Central Europe.) < 1216628634 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216629409 0 :deveah!n=deveah@92.81.74.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216629417 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin dudes < 1216629893 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-242.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216630331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, fizzie: Now list all the state capitals of the US states and Canadian provinces :P < 1216630934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea about those. My knowledge of European geography is poor enough; of the other continents it's pretty much non-existent. < 1216630996 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216635547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do a bit better in Asia I think < 1216635580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seul (English spelling?), Tokyo, Bejing (again spelling, it is spelled "Peking" in Swedish...) < 1216635583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see... < 1216635603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baghdad < 1216635622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New Delhi < 1216635636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singapore, or is that part of China nowdays? < 1216635650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taipei, would be Taiwan iirc < 1216635660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lhasa... Tibet < 1216635697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kuala Lumpur, Kathmandu, Islamabad < 1216635731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beirut, Bangkok < 1216635774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naypyidaw is Burma, not sure about spelling < 1216635784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do more < 1216635803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for US and Canada < 1216635806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are countries < 1216635854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washington D.C. and Ottawa < 1216635859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mexico City < 1216635869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all in North America iirc < 1216635888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South America.... hm < 1216635903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brasilia, Buenos Aires, < 1216635917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lima? < 1216635951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm bad at south america < 1216635983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Africa... < 1216636007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretoria, Dakar, Dar es Salaam < 1216636027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tripoli < 1216636041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harare < 1216636068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tunis? < 1216636078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too good there either < 1216636092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Oceania and Australia... < 1216636101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wellington, Canberra < 1216636126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop can't think of more there < 1216636188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ^ < 1216636302 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.112.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216636412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Seoul < 1216636423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peking is valid in English as well, the more common is Beijing < 1216636438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah thanks < 1216636442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warsaw in English < 1216636453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think I managed rather good < 1216636456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Singapore isn't part of China < 1216636473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to what most Americans manage about Europe < 1216636474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about that Burma one < 1216636489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ AnMaster is still bitching about that? < 1216636500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no GregorR was < 1216636503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, fizzie: Now list all the state capitals of the US states and Canadian provinces :P < 1216636510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot I can do about that < 1216636527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, about the Burma one, I remember it from the news about the protests in Burma last year < 1216636528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let's put it this way < 1216636534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I wouldn't have known it < 1216636542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge about Sweden = isn't going to help anyone in the USA for shit < 1216636544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I listed lots of capitals < 1216636546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the logs < 1216636551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from all over the world < 1216636563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge about USA for Swedes = helpful because it's one of the most powerful countries in the world and certainly the most noticable < 1216636574 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's wrong with Sri Jayawardenapura-Kotte? ;) < 1216636589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet, eh? don't think I know what that one is < 1216636603 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've pasted that one from Wikipedia though < 1216636611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzlet, where is it located? < 1216636619 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sri Lanka < 1216636622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1216636655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see? You don't care that you know nothing about Sri Lanka. < 1216636658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not relevant to you. < 1216636662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I do care < 1216636666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love knowledge < 1216636716 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well don't call out on americans for not knowing much about Sweden. It's the same. < 1216637478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_APL_programming_language < 1216637479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is longer than < 1216637482 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL < 1216637487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1216637487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APL_(programming_language) < 1216637555 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://google.com <- Go find something better" < 1216639196 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that s/foo/bar thing? < 1216639320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deveah: regexps < 1216639334 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?! < 1216639339 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deveah: look it up. < 1216639346 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression < 1216639536 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why s/foo/bar ? < 1216639549 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not "a regexp" ? < 1216639558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deveah: it's not just a regex < 1216639571 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gist is < 1216639572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/from/to/ < 1216639584 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and s is... < 1216639587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you find "from" from something someone said, usually the one doing the s thing, and replace it with "to" < 1216639605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i had typoed something to soemthnig there < 1216639609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would do < 1216639621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/soemthnig/something/ < 1216639631 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1216639641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/a/b/ and s/a/b are both used < 1216639684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a can be any regexp, so you can do more complex stuff inside it to match something other than just a simple string, assuming your listeners aren't monkeys < 1216639766 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1216640042 0 :deveah!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1216641785 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216641920 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1216642218 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216642647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might get his computer back today! < 1216642691 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might spam the same message in all channels today! < 1216643032 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-242.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216643269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And then-" < 1216643746 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216644733 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-242.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216645469 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.112.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216645826 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216645967 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216646552 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1216646559 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many hours of sleep have you had < 1216648103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: 72 < 1216648125 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216648128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasnt :( < 1216648152 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 hours < 1216648154 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that bad < 1216648158 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming he slept all of it < 1216648967 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-84-159.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216649493 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216649861 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216650320 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216651096 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1216651124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1216651130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking fuck. < 1216651133 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1216651136 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216651258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF http://nethack.devnull.org/ why would a page give 400? < 1216651284 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason all webpages would give a 400 error? < 1216651295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF why would a page give a 404 < 1216651297 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy! < 1216651300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http response codes?? < 1216651304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you use those?? < 1216651318 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, why is it giving 400 not 404? < 1216651327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why is it giving 500 and not 404? < 1216651330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're different errors. < 1216651364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how is the browser trying to access it a 400? Isn't that for if I were to do ASDF instead of GET or somesuch thing? < 1216651384 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server thinks the browser's request was bad. < 1216651388 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1216651403 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a server problem. < 1216651459 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1216651646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"restarting X" < 1216651722 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1216651750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1216651758 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216653131 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seen the icfp entry in tex? < 1216653136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sdh33b.blogspot.com/2008/07/icfp-contest-2008.html < 1216653145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't, but I knew it existed < 1216653244 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216653463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION groans while listening to people behind me updating a Mac. . . < 1216653487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd *think* that 'It Just Works' package management would be taken advantage of by Apple. . . < 1216653506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they making noises about? < 1216653562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've never had any problems with upgrading macs. < 1216653577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not upgrading < 1216653579 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updating < 1216653587 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even as bad as an upgrade! < 1216653589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We have to update foo, then bar, then baz, then qux..." < 1216653603 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. what software are they talking about> < 1216653604 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And then-" < 1216653615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS, iTunes, Office, Firefox, etc. < 1216653629 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS and iTunes updates are one click in software update < 1216653641 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else is just software stuff external to it being a Mac. < 1216653651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm just spoiled by 'apt-get update&&apt-get upgrade' or 'emerge --sync&&emerge -avuDN world'. < 1216653661 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1216653674 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how those word, so i cant comment. < 1216653679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's even easier nowadays, you can do it from the GUI so you don't have to remember how apt-get works < 1216653696 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume they update all apps that you have that are acquirable via apt-get? < 1216653705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: that's it < 1216653710 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1216653711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They update every single program on a Linux box from the command line (the first is for Debian or Ubuntu, the second is for Gentoo). < 1216653714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update lets you know which ones can be updated < 1216653717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrade does the update < 1216653730 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convenient. < 1216653754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Now, when was apt first written? '97? < 1216653756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, you don't need the first for ubuntu at all, it does the apt-get update automatically in the background as it doesn't change anything, and gives you an icon to click on to do the apt-get update if it's needed < 1216653763 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont know how well it'd work on a mac, tho, given that mac apps are all Cocoa < 1216653781 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive used apt-get on my mac but only for nix programs that never fucking work. :P < 1216653812 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats one reason i do my best to avoid linux. as much as i like linux, you have to be torvalds to get the damn thing to work. < 1216653818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: not any more < 1216653824 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude even on ubuntu < 1216653829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, no. < 1216653833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm not Torvalds < 1216653834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works for me < 1216653839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the command line because I like it < 1216653845 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu comes with no disk partitioner? what nonsense is this < 1216653845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've done things GUI-style without trouble too < 1216653847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu was the easiest os i've ever seen < 1216653853 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to install a partitioner, forget it < 1216653854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it has a disk partitioner in the install < 1216653862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... But it *does* have a partitioner. < 1216653864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you wanna do, just ask here and write a line to the console :) < 1216653874 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: i wasn't looking for one on the install < 1216653892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gparted on Ubuntu, Qtparted on Kubuntu. < 1216653910 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ubuntu website provided instructions for installing gparted < 1216653914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you're willing to use the command line, fdisk. < 1216653916 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instructions which /didnt work/ < 1216653931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. . . There shouldn't need to be instructions. < 1216653935 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there were < 1216653941 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt make the ubuntu site < 1216653942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the package manager: install gparted." < 1216653955 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were command line instructions, too. < 1216653962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1216653990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. is google down? < 1216653994 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant access google... < 1216654014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Google is down, then I think we have bigger issues to worry about. < 1216654021 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216654022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as the nuking of California. < 1216654033 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant access google :( < 1216654064 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok there we go < 1216654075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google isn't down < 1216654082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command line, in theory, is not that hard to use on Linux. . . < 1216654089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for package installation. < 1216654118 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have a problem with the CL < 1216654120 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from it < 1216654125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install gparted on Ubuntu from the command line, for example? : sudo apt-get install gparted < 1216654129 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a problem with the shit that doesnt work < 1216654150 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in my experience seems to be every god damned thing that requires the CL < 1216654160 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(installs, i mean, not apps to run) < 1216654173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying through the GUI < 1216654177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applications | Add/Remove < 1216654181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I searched for "partition" < 1216654193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "GNOME Partition Editor" was the only thing the search turned up < 1216654200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just click on it and click on install now, and it would work < 1216654214 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt even know you could add programs like that. :D < 1216654246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on Windows, Add/Remove only removes stuff < 1216654254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Ubuntu, and many other Linux distros, it adds stuff too < 1216654261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a pretty good range of things to add < 1216654269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc behind the scenes it just runs the relevant apt-gets < 1216654274 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im used to just downloading apps from their makers website. < 1216654277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives you a pretty GUI for them < 1216654296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the issue with that is you end up with about 20 different auto-updaters in your system tray; on Ubuntu there's only 1 < 1216654313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1216654338 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ive been trying to install apps all wrong < 1216654353 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually just follow the CL instructions on the netosphere < 1216654358 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it almost never works < 1216654362 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for utilities and the like < 1216654371 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216654451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not of the form 'sudo apt-get install package-name', then the CL instructions are shit. Of course, the GUI is fairly handy if you're not a command line guru. < 1216654495 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the same if i compile it myself too tho. < 1216654499 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.112.94 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216654501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the command-line is normally harder if you're not used to it, but faster if you are < 1216654510 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried installing gparted and i got some dependency errors < 1216654528 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i tried some other method, i forget what, and it worked no errors < 1216654531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Dependency *errors*? WTF?!? < 1216654535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1216654537 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependency errors. < 1216654540 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know dude. < 1216654547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i followed the instructions and it started installing JAVA. < 1216654549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally that means it depends on things that you told it not to download < 1216654551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever instructions you were using were shit. < 1216654551 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o; < 1216654569 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they were the instructions from the gparted people ;_; < 1216654582 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i say "people" like there is such a thing < 1216654598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am running a script that tries to find a self-hashing crc32 < 1216654600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It starts with \0 < 1216654602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then: < 1216654606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until x == crc32(x) < 1216654608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = crc32(x) < 1216654614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if that enters a loop? < 1216654615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this going to terminate in my lifetime? < 1216654625 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: halting problem much? < 1216654634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least CRC32's reverse-engineerable < 1216654634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Uh, no. < 1216654636 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope its bistable and never terminates. < 1216654638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just depends on CRC32's definition < 1216654640 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216654646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just have to solve a degree-33 polynomial < 1216654648 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can make a pretty good guess. < 1216654656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just wanted an intuition, sheesh < 1216654657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: CRC32's a polynomial in base 2 < 1216654657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1216654659 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::prays for bistability:: < 1216654662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, using division < 1216654782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any intuitions? < 1216654794 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been going for a while < 1216654810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's very likely to end up in a loop, I think < 1216654953 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humph < 1216654960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers a good hashing function to find a self-hash in < 1216654984 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@203-214-102-35.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1216655102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1216655127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1216655132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1216655145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, updated yet? I'm working on a Def-BF implementation in C now < 1216655151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pushing write now < 1216655155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/write/right/ < 1216655158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, updated < 1216655167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will follow the standard. but... it will do it completely strange < 1216655172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I haven't added all those warnings you wanted, or unwarninged my own code < 1216655173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in virtual machine style < 1216655176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled though < 1216655212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you were to parse a language like C, what would you use? I have no experience with flex or bison or such < 1216655216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would want to learn < 1216655225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd use flex/bison < 1216655232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lex/yacc, the original versions of such < 1216655237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you use both at once? < 1216655245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: flex and bison work together < 1216655250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's possible to use just one of them < 1216655254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flex tokenises the source < 1216655258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bison parses sequences of tokens < 1216655258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language is rather simple really, brainfuck + a few instructions + functions < 1216655289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how would a flex file look for, say, brainfuck? < 1216655299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be very simple for Brainfuck < 1216655308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a list of the possible characters < 1216655311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a token name for each one < 1216655332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you added blocks < 1216655356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, lexing would still be simple, as both { and } (say) are tokens, you'd match the { to the } in the parser < 1216655361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blocks use define: functionname[a, b, c, ...] [ bf code ] < 1216655371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes [ not { < 1216655393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it need to make a difference between what type of [ I assume? < 1216655438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're using [ for two different things depending on context, you parse them both into [ in the lex/flex code and let yacc/bison tell the contexts apart < 1216655444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216655445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216655464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, file endings for flex is .l isn't it? and what is it for bison? < 1216655469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.y < 1216655476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1216655480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to learn bison too < 1216655495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lexer.l and oil.y and parser.y in C-INTERCAL if you want something to look at < 1216655500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oil.y is a lot simpler than parser.y < 1216655501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1216655503 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216655506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216655506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because OIL is a lot neater than INTERCAL syntax-wise < 1216655527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I could hand you my lexer for Def-BF. . . I'd hand you my parser, but it doesn't work. < 1216655531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have conflicts in the following files: < 1216655531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./etc/cftoec.sh < 1216655531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished pulling and applying. < 1216655533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift/reduce conflicts galore. < 1216655536 0 :Dewio_!n=dewi@124-171-205-164.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1216655540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I do now ais523? < 1216655545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that used to darcs < 1216655555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I make it throw away my version < 1216655557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use yours < 1216655608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I haven't had a conflict before < 1216655613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you edit the file to be what you want < 1216655616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then call darcs resolve on it < 1216655619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216655621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1216655692 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1216655696 0 :Dewio_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Dewi < 1216655793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are flex regexes? < 1216655799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216655813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although normally the regexness isn't used except in cases like [0-9]+ < 1216655815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say \[[-+]\] would match [-] and [+] < 1216655827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also first match selected I guess < 1216655828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it would < 1216655832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: longest match, I think < 1216655839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1216655840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216655860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yacc just wants numbers in in-data? < 1216655869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants token numbers < 1216655878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of which can have some data carried along with it < 1216655878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are just defined somewhere? < 1216655888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the %token at the top < 1216655898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you say %token followed by all your data < 1216655906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in the .y file? < 1216655909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/data/tokens/ < 1216655909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1216655913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it outputs a header file < 1216655917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving a unique number to each token < 1216655920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm there is oil.y but no oil.l? < 1216655929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I did the lexing for OIL by hand, as it was simple < 1216655937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216655938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see the yylex function written, in C, at the bottom of that file < 1216655967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a special brainfuck instruction take an argument how do you do then < 1216655968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say: < 1216655976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? takes a hex number as a parameter < 1216656040 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, ais523 is a walking yacc tutorial. < 1216656063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to which I'm very grateful < 1216656066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it would be %token SPECIALINSTRUCTION < 1216656070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to define the token in the yacc file < 1216656072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216656078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd have to make sure yylex passed it an int somehow < 1216656082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what %union is for < 1216656088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1216656089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's slightly complicated < 1216656216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In general, parsers and lexers are complicated, even if you know what you're doing. < 1216656253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1216656269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I written simple parsers in bash and such < 1216656273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in C < 1216656277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hand coded them < 1216656281 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1216656295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep < 1216656318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, say, if I expect the ? instruction to have a 64-bit value as a parameter, which is what I do < 1216656345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh looking at lexer.l it seems you use \( \), just like regexes < 1216656345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216656358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's how it works < 1216656365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you look at the { } block after it < 1216656365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flex actually uses regexps. ;) < 1216656368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsec is pretty much the only simple parser. < 1216656377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes that value and atois it into a number < 1216656381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sends it to yacc < 1216656427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1216656732 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1216656735 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINERIDER REQUIRES SILVERLIGHT < 1216656737 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW < 1216656756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1216656811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters about Silverlight being the worst thing for mankind since mankind < 1216656812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216656823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite, but it's pretty bad < 1216656831 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINERIDER WAS TOTALLY AWESOME < 1216656834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW THEY'RE REQUIRING SILVERLIGHT < 1216656834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFF < 1216656843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT WITH FLASH TRIVIALLY YOU IDIOTS. < 1216656852 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DEPEND ON SOME SHIT THAT ONLY WORKS ON WINDOWS AND SUCKS EVEN THEN < 1216656852 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:| < 1216656855 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :""Won't be back for a while..."" < 1216656897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an issue, seems like yyval stuff is 32-bit? < 1216656901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need 64-bit < 1216656957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can choose the type of the data you send < 1216656962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an int, always, for the token type < 1216656968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and data it carries along with it which can be any type < 1216657008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?0x([0-9]+) { yylval.numval = atoll(yytext); return tok_pop; } < 1216657015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, need to \ the ? < 1216657044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to define yylval.numval, that's what the %union directive's for < 1216657048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, yes < 1216657050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh right < 1216657059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define it as long long, because that's what you want < 1216657096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so how do you bind them together < 1216657100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexer and parser here < 1216657145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes header < 1216657181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get yacc to generate the header file if you like < 1216657186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216657212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's what messed up oklopol's C-INTERCAL installation recently, I accidentally gave them the wrong yacc-generated header file and all the token numbers were wrong < 1216657414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are {W} and {D}? < 1216657436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're references to regexen defined earlier in the file < 1216657446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you scroll up, you'll see their definitions < 1216657453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess // comments would be like: //.*$ < 1216657456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to match then < 1216657458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :them* < 1216657466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1216657466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1216657468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe \/\/ < 1216657474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not sure which chars have to be escaped < 1216657483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safest to escape all the punctuation chars < 1216657510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... does it have to be a tab to separate the regex from the code processing it? < 1216657519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does spaces work too < 1216657557 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216657628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any whitespace works < 1216657637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlines too? < 1216657638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs are neater, though < 1216657640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a long match < 1216657641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so < 1216657670 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-84-159.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216657760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said longest match? but what if a short one should take precedence? < 1216657766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, //.*$ < 1216657788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how could that be shorter than the thing that accidentally takes precedence over it? < 1216657794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longest-match rule is good for keywords < 1216657798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiline match? < 1216657802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you end up violating it you're probably doing things wrong < 1216657811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a multiline match that // commenting should take precedence over? < 1216657828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a string beginning inside the // comment < 1216657831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say: < 1216657834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// "blah < 1216657838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah "foo" < 1216657843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's longest match from each particular point < 1216657848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1216658030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is a valid variable name and function name in Def-BF? < 1216658049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]* < 1216658050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1216658083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying [[:alpha:]_\-][[:alphanum:]]* < 1216658087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1216658096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[:alpha:]_\-][[:alphanum:]_\-]* < 1216658114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1216658155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, import: is anything until end of line? < 1216658179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, other question: < 1216658181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yylval.str = yytext; < 1216658185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I need to strdup() it? < 1216658195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, I'd recommend strdup < 1216658198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd assume so. < 1216658209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see why lex would be making deep copies itself < 1216658214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because normally you don't need them < 1216658224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for identifiers do you need them < 1216658226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though one may want to pester Rodger soon as he decides to /join #esoteric. < 1216658227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216658234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in professional compilers they tend to be hashed < 1216658237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's currently on Freenode. < 1216658250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1216658253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd start with strdup. < 1216658276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216658278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to parse: < 1216658280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you find yourself wanting a hash map for usage later, then it's not too hard to move to from strdup. . . < 1216658297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define: functionname[var, var, var, ...] < 1216658304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do that in one single regex really < 1216658321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's done in Yacc, not Lex, for starters. < 1216658325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah thanks < 1216658338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would doing something like: ^import:{W}(.+)$ { yylval.str = strdup(yytext); return tok_import; } < 1216658340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be wrong? < 1216658353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be OK < 1216658356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lex is for tokenising < 1216658362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't use it to match brackets or anything like that < 1216658367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216658374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you're there defining import to be outside the normal structure of the language < 1216658377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be what you want < 1216658401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it will take a filename as parameter < 1216658402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe me, import: is a token. < 1216658409 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216658418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that's probably valid. < 1216658424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? but it will be resolved at compile time right? < 1216658445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I *think* that line will have yytext also including the "import:" string. < 1216658446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean by that? < 1216658454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*That* is probably not what you want. < 1216658462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, I think so, there's a different directive to get the first () group IIRC < 1216658467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a while since I messed with that particular syntax < 1216658478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216658482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend pulling up the flex manual. < 1216658486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(info flex) < 1216658492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, info flex is excellent < 1216658502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU's documentation generally is. < 1216658512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm looking at it's website's doc < 1216658518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that crashes less than info < 1216658527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same exact documentation. < 1216658531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1216658550 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a different argument to infotex to make it output HTML instead of .info, after all. < 1216658564 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1216658583 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sup everybody? < 1216658613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, hi < 1216658624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Def-BF how are the arguments to ? given? < 1216658634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: AnMaster is the guy working on Def-BF (obviously). Enjoy. ;) < 1216658636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as ?0x123 or in decimal or? < 1216658649 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's something I omitted... hm < 1216658661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, I'd assume hexdecimal for now < 1216658673 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216658677 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the original idea was to allow both 0x1234 and regular integer representations < 1216658701 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having both would be convenient, but you can have just hex at the lowest level if you want < 1216658703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it might be a while before I actually get Def-BF sanely working, I'll end up following AnMaster's semantics for the most part. < 1216658705 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: anmaster's implementation is a VM in C, just FYI < 1216658714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the to-the-metal one you were going to do, iirc < 1216658715 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty < 1216658720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well will be < 1216658723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will take a while < 1216658732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I'm learning flex/bison at the same time < 1216658734 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a problem with VMs < 1216658751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, if his implementation is flexible enough, I'll just make an asm backend. < 1216658752 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it makes it easier to develop while it builds interest, it's a good tradeoff < 1216658762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1216658790 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't code it in Ruby... :) < 1216658798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pre-processor will strip all function information and such, and just generate the basic commands part < 1216658806 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1216658816 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the original intent < 1216658819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's tire 1 and tire 2 < 1216658839 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to "tiers"? < 1216658847 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe10fa00-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1216658849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1216658851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1216658860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, what about standard library? < 1216658868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1216658884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second tier will generate one additional instruction, "use compiler implementation of this standard library function" < 1216658887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my idea at least < 1216658904 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I intended for the standard library to be coded in the language whenever remotely possible < 1216658916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but the compiler could optimize some < 1216658936 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of external call (to C functions, for example, as pikhq has been thinking about) would be useful though, yes < 1216659022 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say, write the standard libs first, and then say somewhere in the spec that compilers may substitute their own implementations as long as they produce the same behavior < 1216659025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my apps will be called: dbc and dpp < 1216659030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the suite defc < 1216659036 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1216659049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I'd also recommend differentiating between a hosted and freestanding implementation, as C does. < 1216659083 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: explain what you mean by hosted in this case < 1216659083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a hosted implementation is running on a working OS, with a stdlib. A freestanding implementation is on bare metal: no stdlib) < 1216659114 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I figure at least initially we'll go with an entirely statically-linked scheme < 1216659122 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so freestanding < 1216659142 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I imagine that's the implementation difference between those approaches < 1216659203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: they're terms in the C standard, "hosted" means you're guaranteed to have all the standard library and main works as you expect, "freestanding" means that only a small amount of the stdlib need be there (for instance you might not have printf) and the calling conventions can be strange < 1216659219 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216659219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1216659228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A freestanding implementation has barely anything. < 1216659270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC's freestanding mode, IIRC, just has a few builtin functions from math.h. < 1216659279 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when I say "standard library", I tend to think of it like the Java API- it's a set of tools you're guaranteed to have in every implementation, thus the value of writing them in the language itself. < 1216659295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/cq8ROs23.html < 1216659302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A systems programming language can't be that way. ;) < 1216659309 0 :lilja!n=lilja@a91-152-143-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1216659341 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that isn't necessarily true. The standard library doesn't need to be huge and sprawling < 1216659346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realistically, it *will* be running in environments without anything set up except maybe the BIOS. < 1216659377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it's starting up from 32-bit mode on an x86, it won't even have that. < 1216659423 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm imagining the standard library as consisting of things like array manipulation, string stuff, complex math, possibly some simple data structures and a few I/O helper functions < 1216659449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1216659451 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it should come standard with an XML parser or something < 1216659459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with freestanding, you mostly just get things like limits.h and setjmp < 1216659462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing fancy like malloc < 1216659476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're saying something closer to PEBBLE's standard macros, then. < 1216659489 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1216659693 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hope it's clear that all of those things can be cleanly and portably implemented in Def-BF itself, so there's no reason for them not to be available at compile-time < 1216659763 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: You need malloc for string manip. < 1216660195 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1216660424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, depends < 1216660437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OK, most of the time, for most operations. < 1216660443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy(), strstr(), there are a few < 1216660468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you don't need malloc for string manipulation, just to make new strings < 1216660474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you often want to do as a result of string manipulation < 1216660476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sometimes you do! < 1216660478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. concat < 1216660481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in-place manipulation rarely needs malloc < 1216660492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: even an in-place concat doesn't need malloc if you have the space beforehand < 1216660499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can do in many circumstances < 1216660506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what about passing pointers to pre-allocated buffers around < 1216660511 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes these are all very valid < 1216660512 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1216660525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat envisioned array manipulation and data structures < 1216660531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll bet you're gonna need malloc somewhere along the line for THEM < 1216660543 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps def-bf should have a two tier library, RodgerTheGreat, pikhq < 1216660549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tier one will run on even the bare metal < 1216660555 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tier two requires things like malloc and other niceties < 1216660572 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use tier one to implement all the basics for an OS and then get tier two < 1216660787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is a recursive parser stupid or? < 1216660798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [ ] < 1216660806 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sometimes it's really easy to implement that way < 1216660818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is here in the low level tier < 1216660828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could run into issues < 1216660831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is deep enough < 1216660895 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general I think we should be thinking about eventually making this self-hosting (which is important for it to become a serious systems programming language of any kind), so we shouldn't make use of things we don't know how to implement ourselves < 1216660933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1216660949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, I don't plan to write a Def-BF compiler in Def-BF < 1216660970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be quite willing to, once I know a hell of a lot more about parsers. < 1216660981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know *just* enough to use Yacc ATM. < 1216660982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well there are other people who know how to code < 1216660988 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is something pikhq and I have discussed < 1216661006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc is for noobs, parsers should be written manually :P < 1216661024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I know enough to hand-write, say, a recursive descent parser, then I'd be quite willing to implement Def-BF in Def-BF. < 1216661057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as hard as you'd think < 1216661085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: agreed < 1216661088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I actually wrote an LALR(1) parser in VBA once < 1216661092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for now I will. parse it as hexdecimal < 1216661093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 0x < 1216661094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I didn't have access to any decent programming languages < 1216661111 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes time and can be a little tedious, but it isn't tremendously hard if the syntax is straightforward < 1216661114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard about parsing during my python time < 1216661149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is something i never invented myself < 1216661174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I might just wait for the college class on it. < 1216661180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Key word: *might*. < 1216661187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one possibility < 1216661188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to see oklopol's Parserless Languge < 1216661191 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1216661199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll see once I've got a Def-BF kernel running. ;) < 1216661199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i have lots < 1216661207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but just about everything is a parser < 1216661209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a brainfuck parser < 1216661213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this one basic with operator precedence and all, without parsing < 1216661215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is still a parser < 1216661217 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: uhhh < 1216661219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still parse it < 1216661220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just strings and rewrite rules :)) < 1216661223 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just mingled with the interpretation < 1216661226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still parsing < 1216661227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216661229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what about MiniMAX? < 1216661231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err well yes, i read the strings. < 1216661236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't use anything like lists < 1216661240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the version where you have to write the program in binary doesn't seem to need a parser < 1216661242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's about as close to parserless as youc an get < 1216661244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just blit the program into memory < 1216661251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well duh, that's not what i meant and you know it < 1216661270 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1216661303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have "parsing" to mean that the interpreter reads your source before it executes it, then yes, everything needs to be parsed < 1216661323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for a few languages where programs are empty, in which case it's not clear < 1216661361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could say i never had a separate parsing stage, jsut. < 1216661364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just < 1216661453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what if the program's just blitted into memory? < 1216661555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then you're not really doing the interpreting yourself < 1216661565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the processor will still parse < 1216661570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, well not the processor < 1216661578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that guy who gives it the shit to run < 1216661671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shows extreme knowledge about hardware < 1216661694 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1216661704 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! :D < 1216661960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay what a nice recursive parser I made < 1216661964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the low level part < 1216661970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-processes code already < 1216662129 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216662160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have a nice java disassembler nearby? < 1216662699 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-84-159.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216663538 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216663550 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-41-147.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216664196 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1216664205 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dust in the wind = good song < 1216664214 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that should be a <- < 1216664223 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its obviously not a set, nor is it an identity < 1216664350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like it < 1216664353 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's whiny < 1216664361 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not the song, the singer is whiny. < 1216664366 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the song is bitchy. < 1216664589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/fdXBOV79.html < 1216664592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ^ < 1216664593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, ^ < 1216664611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some issues still < 1216664614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet; you can parse Brainfuck. < 1216664615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1216664617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations you implemented brainfuck. < 1216664617 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216664620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1216664622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny < 1216664623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216664625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++[>-[>><]<][[-]>+]?0x12Ab2+ < 1216664627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the program < 1216664630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something doesn't work < 1216664636 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You parsed all of it apart from the bit that wasn't brainfuck. < 1216664641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can parse brainfuck! Awesome. < 1216664645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216664651 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact. < 1216664652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the node is there < 1216664654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't parse brainfuck. < 1216664656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ends with a +. < 1216664661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1216664784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh the bug was in the tree dumping code < 1216664790 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216665018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be sure to steal your parser. :p < 1216665040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Out of curiosity, why are you having [-] as its own little bit of syntax? < 1216665100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's how e's optimising it < 1216665107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that should be in the parser not the lexer really < 1216665147 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be in the parser. < 1216665149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, to optimize < 1216665151 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be in a seperate optimizer step. < 1216665155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no it isn't in parser < 1216665156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be a transformation on the parsed tree. < 1216665156 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that [><-] can be optimized. < 1216665157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in optimizer < 1216665158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216665162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1216665162 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that >< is eliminated < 1216665163 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then [-] < 1216665172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's called peephole optimization < 1216665183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess your optimization is just not yet done, then. < 1216665185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well the >< step isn't implemented yet < 1216665187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will be < 1216665194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should make a Brainfuck version of OIL... < 1216665196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently the optimize step only handles [-] and [+] < 1216665206 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, the compiler language is more expressive for this < 1216665211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will handle renumbering and so on < 1216665212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there's a lot of complex opts < 1216665217 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that need a lot of computation and lookahead/behind < 1216665222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1216665243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the [-] is converted to a single new token in the optimize step < 1216665247 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216665253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "zero current cell" token < 1216665294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convert that [-] to ?0x0. ;) < 1216665326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well it is it's own value now, as I thought brainfukc < 1216665332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck* but that would work < 1216665389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for most other things the param will be count of instruction < 1216665394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "add 4" < 1216665400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will also be done in optimizer < 1216665444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1216665456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to write code emitter < 1216665461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. This makes me half-tempted to learn how to write a GCC frontend. < 1216665470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, GAH < 1216665483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1216665514 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol whens your birthday < 1216666015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1216666377 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216666520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216666523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code generation is hard < 1216666547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you use lisp :D < 1216666551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1216666554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I generate C < 1216666555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using C < 1216666560 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1216666561 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch. < 1216666564 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it hard?? < 1216666565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in generate a C file < 1216666566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not hard. < 1216666577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, because it's first time I do it I guess < 1216666581 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216666588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess AnMaster can implement basic esolangs, and optimize things to hell < 1216666590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd explain cfunge < 1216666599 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i guess its hard because C requires that you fuck with strings in nasty ways but < 1216666604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we all live and learn < 1216666607 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: still not that hard < 1216666615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no string handling needed really < 1216666615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean a lot of the time you can just print it out as you go < 1216666616 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd hate to have to manage strings in c < 1216666624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying to figure out how to generate code the best way < 1216666629 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, print as you go is good. < 1216666630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fprintf. < 1216666638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes of course... < 1216666640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't that < 1216666641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a switch around the type of the instruction in a main loop < 1216666642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're done < 1216666646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was how to use gotos and so < 1216666676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "don't" < 1216666684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, eh? < 1216666691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the generated code will use gotos < 1216666696 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1216666696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only sane way for jump < 1216666699 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? :( < 1216666704 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotos are evil! :( < 1216666705 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean goto is fine in generated code < 1216666706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% jump to absolute address in code < 1216666706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: resume execution from previous address < 1216666707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1216666708 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why do you need to use it < 1216666709 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216666710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1216666711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, exactly < 1216666712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1216666713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about < 1216666714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generated < 1216666715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code < 1216666716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1216666717 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216666717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about < 1216666718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1216666718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1216666719 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg stop < 1216666719 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1216666720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1216666721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code I write by hand < 1216666721 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1216666722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point < 1216666722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1216666723 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most < 1216666725 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of < 1216666727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1216666729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time < 1216666731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1216666733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can < 1216666733 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho! >_ indent < 1216667526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I could use the computed goto's of gcc < 1216667527 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216667531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't want to be gcc specific < 1216667624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: God gave us AnMaster so that we could say things like that and they would go straight from his ears to /dev/null, < 1216667630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why God was so evil I will never know. < 1216667648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God is a BOFH. < 1216667649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, actually I won't indent the code < 1216667653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Jesus his PFY. < 1216667653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you believed I would < 1216667655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing < 1216667665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't C-INTERCAL indent it's code? < 1216667668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it does < 1216667674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not amusing. < 1216667678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's something you would do. < 1216667680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what isn't? < 1216667688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, C-INTERCAL does it < 1216667699 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully, AnMaster < 1216667700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only basic < 1216667705 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. like 3 lines of code < 1216667706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not fully < 1216667835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I will have to generate gcc specific code < 1216667838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using computed goto's < 1216667897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1216667999 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never have to < 1216668000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use a switch < 1216668002 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big switch < 1216668003 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around everything < 1216668010 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i = 0; < 1216668013 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch(i){...} < 1216668017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the top < 1216668017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top: < 1216668019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see what you mean < 1216668021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to 'goto var' < 1216668022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting idea < 1216668022 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1216668024 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'i=var; goto top' < 1216668029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty standard stuff < 1216668035 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and switch fallthrough makes it work elegantly < 1216668047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I can't do loops as while blocks I guess, I need to jump into them < 1216668069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes I see what you mean < 1216668077 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes you can < 1216668077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, loops won't be fun < 1216668079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch is freeform < 1216668080 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (x) { < 1216668083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case 3: ... < 1216668084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case 4: ... < 1216668085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1216668089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will go to the toplevel switch < 1216668098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes.... forgot that C "feature" < 1216668105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can jump into other blocks < 1216668118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you're a duff-devicer ("one who abuses the freeform behaviour of switch in C"). < 1216668167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know about duff's device < 1216668175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason for switch behaving the way it does? < 1216668207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that noobs would fail and you could laugh at them? < 1216668262 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's simpler to implement < 1216668269 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it allows for tricks like this < 1216668274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was relevant in the 70s < 1216668281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: really < 1216668285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch () { ... } is just a goto < 1216668288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'case x' a label < 1216668291 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why it's case x: < 1216668294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not case (x) { ... } < 1216668307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, most likely it is a goto into a jump table < 1216668318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then points to the code bit in question < 1216668328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1216668340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just do something like: JUMP_RELATIVE_PC variable < 1216668343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then jump again < 1216668355 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i don't buy that < 1216668362 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: then don't < 1216668376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err isn't the reason just < 1216668388 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case'0':case'1':case'2': etc < 1216668401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i know, just always assumed < 1216668404 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1216668406 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upload done < 1216668407 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1216668408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive < 1216668411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1216668423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: what upload? :D < 1216668429 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the books! < 1216668441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you upload them? < 1216668450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that partly oklopol < 1216668450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1216668453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case a: case b: case c: < 1216668454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .... < 1216668455 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Theory%20of%20Computation.zip < 1216668456 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case d: ... < 1216668457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1216668463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the easiest way to do that? < 1216668466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is now. < 1216668574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons raisins, no one cares about reasons < 1216668580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: thanks < 1216668586 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: always :) < 1216669142 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216670835 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quiet. < 1216671517 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loud. < 1216671565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it (partly) works < 1216671739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what she said < 1216671744 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1216671800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's just i've never used that so that it made even remotely sense. < 1216671809 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216671913 0 :kotrin!n=kotrin@mail.colortechnology.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216671982 0 :kotrin!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1216672725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it generates a executable that compiles now < 1216672728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1216672735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work though :P < 1216673149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1216673219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, AnMaster, Def-BF isn't exactly hard. < 1216673233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well I never generated C code before < 1216673242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah because generating C is so hard < 1216673246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216673249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is new to me < 1216673312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've generated c code manually, like a true codar < 1216673322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by pressing keys < 1216673325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I coded in C... < 1216673338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but I admit this is my first compiler < 1216673340 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol P < 1216673340 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216673341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bow before me and shit, this stuff is bigger than ya. < 1216673343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in compile to other language < 1216673348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual code generation, wow < 1216673360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bow before me and shit" < 1216673362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well done < 1216673365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1216673366 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216673368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows before oklopol  < 1216673371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shits < 1216673371 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you ARE into scat < 1216673378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I figured out one extra instruction I need when optimizing, constant call < 1216673388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if the instruction just before is a load constant < 1216673414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's specific to Def-BF < 1216673757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant call, it's the friend of the damned, press its buttons and you'll know its name... < 1216673900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say scat? < 1216673933 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216673939 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216674162 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1216674183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the Scatman....repeat after me < 1216674183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a scoobie oobie doobie scoobie doobie melody < 1216674185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the Scatman....repeat after me < 1216674185 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a scoobie oobie doobie scoobie doobie melody < 1216674200 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loses something when it's typed < 1216674207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1216674221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual chorus @ the lyrics i copied from... < 1216674237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Scatting) < 1216674239 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the Scatman < 1216674241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1216674241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Scatting) < 1216674245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the Scatman < 1216674249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Scatting) < 1216674263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess that's funnier. < 1216674285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to like that song < 1216674295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i still do, haven't heard it for ages < 1216674522 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a good song :O < 1216674531 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's catchy, I'll give it that < 1216674568 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the music video theres this boy thats hot < 1216674577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who really needs to sit on my cock < 1216674584 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216674599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it rhymes it must be true. < 1216674633 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what if it's a slant rhyme? < 1216674648 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a slant rhyme? < 1216674716 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slant_rhyme < 1216674729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oj < 1216674731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok* < 1216674732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1216674739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will do just to irritate tusho < 1216674740 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1216674742 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same-coda < 1216674743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will load the input file < 1216674749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using mmap() < 1216674754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to make tusho go crazy < 1216674761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually mmap is less work than reallocating a buffer all the time < 1216674770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that is another aspect < 1216674774 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to same rime < 1216675092 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1216676059 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216676251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, what is the file extension for Def-BF? < 1216676271 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no convention yet < 1216676275 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest .dbf < 1216676279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1216676606 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216676651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to implement input < 1216676654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that it works < 1216676662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low level part that is < 1216676671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait call doesn't work completely < 1216676673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a bug there < 1216676676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will fix that tomorrow < 1216676688 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: .bf is befunge < 1216676692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may I suggest .defb < 1216676704 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216676758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, he said .dbf not .defbf < 1216676762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .bf < 1216676784 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216676785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is < 1216676789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'bf' means befunge in file extensions < 1216676793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .defb is better < 1216676797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or .dfb < 1216676804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckbrain? < 1216676814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.defbf would be acceptable also < 1216676824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well RodgerTheGreat decides < 1216676834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why I pinged RodgerTheGreat < 1216676835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not you < 1216676837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216676851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./dbc -o tmp/helloworld.c tmp/helloworld.b < 1216676851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File written to tmp/helloworld.c, to compile use: < 1216676851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gcc -std=c99 tmp/helloworld.c < 1216676857 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.db < 1216676859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216676862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data base? < 1216676863 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: conflicts with database < 1216676869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a common sqlite extension < 1216676870 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1216676874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, call stack is broken < 1216676878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will redeign tomorrow < 1216676882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: there are always conflicts < 1216676884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reimplement optimizing < 1216676893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but .defb and .defbf are unlikely to. < 1216676894 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus just pick something and stop pinging me < 1216676898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want one <= 4 chars, at least < 1216676936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.dfb < 1216676938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1216676952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, btw: < 1216676958 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's a "Data Flask Data Formula File" < 1216676959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2443== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 5 from 1) < 1216676959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2443== malloc/free: in use at exit: 0 bytes in 0 blocks. < 1216676959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2443== malloc/free: 114 allocs, 114 frees, 5,088 bytes allocated. < 1216676961 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filext.com/file-extension/dfb < 1216676961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from compiler < 1216676970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: .db is pretty conflicty though. < 1216676980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bf means befunge in file extensions < 1216676981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to esolangers < 1216676982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but on the other hand that makes it a good file extension in some cases < 1216676987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2559== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 5 from 1) < 1216676987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2559== malloc/free: in use at exit: 0 bytes in 0 blocks. < 1216676987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==2559== malloc/free: 1 allocs, 1 frees, 65,536 bytes allocated. < 1216676990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from compiled app < 1216676993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, though, I wouldn't go with it. < 1216677058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1216677064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file extension of brainfuck is .b < 1216677074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so dfb makes sense < 1216677082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not .defb < 1216677082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for .dfb < 1216677088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, DOS! < 1216677090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1216677094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ais would say that < 1216677105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.3 remember? < 1216677108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would, but you're not ais < 1216677109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shudders < 1216677117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm asking you < 1216677120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not .defb :-P < 1216677122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I give same issue < 1216677126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why it could be a problem < 1216677131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would you care about DOS < 1216677135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Def-BF is a system programming language < 1216677140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they port FreeDOS to it? < 1216677167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeDOS supports beyond 8.3 doesn't it? < 1216677172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1216677185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I know a good extension < 1216677186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.d < 1216677192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one would use that ;P < 1216677201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything 1-char is taken many times over < 1216677209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything 2-char is taken at least once < 1216677210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah guess so < 1216677216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most 3-chars are, too < 1216677233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure .c is taken more than once? < 1216677238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe that < 1216677245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course < 1216677247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sure < 1216677248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1216677249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filext.com/file-extension/c < 1216677253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1216677256 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1216677257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 times, or 7? < 1216677261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all the world is C, AnMaster < 1216677277 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, all the world is C. < 1216677278 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7, turns out < 1216677292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well night < 1216677294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to go < 1216677295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1216677302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1216677310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: not rly. < 1216677403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1216677405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about C < 1216677409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.c != .C < 1216677411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1216677414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it list both as same < 1216677420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extension: C < 1216677420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program and/or Extension Function [What's This?] Company [What's This?] < 1216677420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C++ Program File < 1216677434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Extension: C < 1216677434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program and/or Extension Function [What's This?] Company [What's This?] < 1216677434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX Compact File Achive < 1216677453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C file is .c < 1216677456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archive is .C < 1216677459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, Deewiant ^ < 1216677461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that site is crap < 1216677465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway night really now < 1216677475 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not crap < 1216677479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very useful < 1216677483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's crap because it's case-insensitive < 1216677486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's completely useless < 1216677490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well boycott it < 1216677497 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: just about everything should be case-insensitive really < 1216677501 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystems, web servers < 1216677508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans _don't_ distinguish things just based on their case < 1216677513 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really stupid < 1216677525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humans do, though < 1216677531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God vs god, for instance < 1216677536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :names in general < 1216677555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bill, bill, Ray, ray < 1216677569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the language, of course < 1216677584 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most things are built with English in mind < 1216677668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 'God' vs 'god' is a ridiculous religious notion and requires explicit effort from humans. < 1216677677 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't happen if they weren't commanded to by 'God'. < 1216677701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I see your point < 1216677710 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I helped my uncle Jack off a horse" vs. "I helped my uncle jack off a horse" < 1216677718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that's the good example :-) < 1216677761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216677765 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :names are the exception < 1216677777 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, consider http://awesomefamily.org/Jack/ < 1216677778 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1216677780 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"God" is similar to a name < 1216677782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we were talking file _names_ right ;-) < 1216677783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://awesomefamily.org/jack/ < 1216677791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English text, for names, it matters. < 1216677798 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In filenames, I doubt it ever will. < 1216677817 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why all sane operating systems are already case-insensitive :D < 1216677838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case-sensitivity but with case-insensitive matching might be a good middle ground < 1216677855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and that's exactly what Windows and OS X do. < 1216677857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Jack and jack are different but if you only have one, any case matches it < 1216677863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I meant < 1216677873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess it's not < 1216677878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I see it you could still have both Jack and jack coexist < 1216677883 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you could have both Foo.txt and foo.txt but you can't :( < 1216677887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Windows you can't, at least < 1216677890 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor OS X < 1216677891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about OSX < 1216677896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that is just confusing though < 1216677903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads to nothing but mistakes < 1216677912 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1216677924 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case-insensitive but case-preserving is basically the sane way to do this < 1216677935 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i believe so < 1216677936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact you can generalise it < 1216677945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching-insensitive but creation-preserving < 1216677945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the biggest argument against case sensitivity is that it's just too difficult in general < 1216677949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Windows you can't rename something changing only its case :-/ < 1216677949 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it works fine for English < 1216677952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can apply to tons of stuff < 1216677959 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that is a flaw, yes < 1216677962 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with os x's HFS < 1216677966 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to go to another temp name < 1216677969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just a technical flaw < 1216677976 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for me in OS X < 1216677989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: open up a terminal < 1216677990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try < 1216677993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv foo.txt Foo.txt < 1216678003 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it works < 1216678004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv is different < 1216678011 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both with mv and in Finder < 1216678019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1216678031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: < 1216678031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% mv test.txt Test.txt < 1216678031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: `test.txt' and `Test.txt' are the same file < 1216678034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on tiger < 1216678037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe leopard fixed t < 1216678040 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1216678048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe lament's not on HFS? < 1216678060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HFS+ actually < 1216678063 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume he is < 1216678067 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he mentions case-insensitivty < 1216678072 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also installing OS X on non-HFS stuff is a bitch < 1216678074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i see what the filesystem is? < 1216678079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: disk utility < 1216678118 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Format :Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" < 1216678123 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hfs+ then < 1216678127 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be leopard < 1216678128 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, then < 1216678145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried Vista in this regard, maybe they fixed that there, too ;-) < 1216678166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not hopeful ;-P < 1216678189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hopeful' and vista, *g* < 1216678239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: this is more of that subtlety you were telling me about. ;-) < 1216678259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it only applies to other people < 1216678269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with case sensitivity is that it's too hard < 1216678275 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you restrict yourself to English < 1216679069 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216679071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah vista fixed it < 1216679152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually i think you've always been able to do it in explorer < 1216679228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not in XP < 1216679287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently I'm talking out of my ass and you can < 1216679295 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it was that didn't work then < 1216679303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know something doesn't :-P < 1216679597 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216679604 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1216679608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you live in a police state < 1216679608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if < 1216679609 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it < 1216679610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the police < 1216679611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were < 1216679612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NINJAS < 1216679613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would < 1216679620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't. < 1216679629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, properly speaking, that would be a ninja state. < 1216679630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216679651 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1216679653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be police. < 1216679654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... < 1216679656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninja. < 1216679657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Police. < 1216679793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well life would be the exact same really < 1216679815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, god i love ninja jokes < 1216679825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninja parade & ninja tea party ftw < 1216679836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: exact same ... except for ... < 1216679838 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NINJA < 1216679839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POLICE < 1216679843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't live in a police state, especially one where the cops can kill you without you ever noticing they're there < 1216679859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: NINJAS. < 1216679864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NINJA POLICE STATE. < 1216679895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m/POLICE STATE/i <-- 1 < 1216679917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence police state, hence I wouldn't live there, given the choice. :-P < 1216679918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: NINJAS. < 1216679920 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMNIT. < 1216679923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU. < 1216679927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKIN' NINJA POLICE. < 1216679928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STATE. < 1216679950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninjas are cool only when they're not actively trying to mess with you < 1216679976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WRONG. < 1216679981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ninjas are the DEFINITION OF COOL POLICE. < 1216679989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, Ninja police state = Cool police police state < 1216680019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how cool that's still a police state. Sorry! ;-) < 1216680051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool * -cool. < 1216680055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, -cool^2. < 1216680071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's therefore worse than being just -cool (or, that is, uncool). < 1216680126 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it's NINJA POLICE STATE < 1216680135 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's (cool*A(g64,g64))+-cool < 1216680140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, bad troll is bad < 1216680141 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-60-142.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216680150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: Would YOU live in a ninja police state? < 1216680155 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A police state, but the police are NINJAS. < 1216680225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Times, not plus. :p < 1216680241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. Plus < 1216680888 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216680911 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-60-142.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216681319 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216681585 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216681764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216682902 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-60-142.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216683903 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216684047 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216684059 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-60-142.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216684137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some days, I hate Gentoo. < 1216684149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No disk space available". . . < 1216684161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the partition in question is only 70% used. . . < 1216684220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I get that error again, now that the disk is only 56% used, I'm kicking someone in the shin. < 1216684229 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216684272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i sense there is something wrong, but i don't know what, because my train of thought got intercepted < 1216684272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever happen to you? < 1216684303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regularly. < 1216684576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing is i have no idea whether it's a seriously depressing thought, or something like "this is a bad name for this function" < 1216684581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it often takes ages to remember what it was < 1216684611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i got it < 1216684615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed an oko on a channel, and kinda only half-noticed i did. < 1216684629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually they're at least a little worse :) < 1216684718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: o < 1216684733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1216684756 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko