< 1216771201 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1216771258 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216771304 0 :CakeProphet_!n=chatzill@h215.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216771310 0 :CakeProphet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1216771754 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216771970 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-62-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772223 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216772225 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216772225 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216772225 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216772225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216772242 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-62-248.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772242 0 :ihope!n=ihope@tapthru/resident/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772242 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-69-76-143-134.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772242 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772242 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216772375 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1216772897 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ask CakeProphet 'sup?) < 1216772925 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet reply to: psygnisfive with: 'nm la' < 1216772961 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does SmallTalk allow that? < 1216772966 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reply to:? < 1216772968 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a space? < 1216773042 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1216773047 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does not. < 1216773058 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this some other language? < 1216773058 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet replyto: psygnisfive with: 'nm la' < 1216773061 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad. < 1216773062 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216773070 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb actually < 1216773083 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set-status 'brb) < 1216773089 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive[brb] < 1216773342 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216773850 0 :psygnisfive[brb]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set-status 'back) < 1216773856 0 :psygnisfive[brb]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive < 1216773882 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup bitches < 1216773949 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1216774168 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1216774189 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(poke everyone) < 1216774197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes cakeprophet
< 1216774200 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes anmaster
< 1216774204 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes oklopol
< 1216774206 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes tusho
< 1216774211 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes deewiant
< 1216774214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like IOs message syntax more so than smalltalks. < 1216774222 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iomessage syntax? < 1216774236 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it doesn't allow you to have things like replyto: and then replyto:with: < 1216774240 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1216774248 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object message (args...) < 1216774254 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216774269 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur replytowith cakeprophet "hello" < 1216774270 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1216774271 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the syntax for like everything... < 1216774279 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-alphanumeric characters don't require a space < 1216774285 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus 2+2 and such < 1216774295 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216774310 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the arguments a lazily evaluated < 1216774338 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really wanna fuck around with a language that has nat-lang like prepositions < 1216774339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this makes sense: if(x==2, "Hello, World!" println) < 1216774379 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should instead have like < 1216774391 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == 2 implies "Hello, World!" println < 1216774409 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where implies is a method of booleans < 1216774431 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im off again < 1216774435 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur setstatus "away" < 1216774438 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1216774440 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive* < 1216774440 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216774444 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive[away < 1216774612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much how smalltalk does conditionals < 1216774811 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :io, to me, looks more uniform than lisp. < 1216774848 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lisp has macros that pretty much make their own rules. < 1216775231 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahaha < 1216775231 0 :psygnisfive[away!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well im not gone yet < 1216775235 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1216775240 0 :psygnisfive[away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive < 1216775243 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 workspaces < 1216775263 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do lisp macros look less uniform?? < 1216775281 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't look less uniform < 1216775285 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are less uniform < 1216775290 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's functions... and then there's macros. < 1216775300 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they look exactly the same < 1216775300 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216775308 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros might as well just be lazy evaluation. < 1216775314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...they are. < 1216775318 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre not but they might as well be < 1216775335 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see why theyre not uniform tho < 1216775336 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216775365 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: ...I am saying that lisp is not uniform. < 1216775370 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it... matters. < 1216775374 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see why :O < 1216775375 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1216775375 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what it claims to be. < 1216775388 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has functions and macros... two seperate things. < 1216775393 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1216775425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it lumps both of them together with the same syntax and claims that everything is computed via the same inner workings. < 1216775437 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a... problem. < 1216775440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lots of languages do this. < 1216775451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never heard anyone claim that everything is computed via the same parts of eval/apply < 1216775478 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nevermind. < 1216775482 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216775490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1216775550 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does annoy me though... that they look the same. You don't tell if you're dealing with a function or a macro unless you've read some sort of documentation or seen the source code for it < 1216775558 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can't. < 1216775570 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it matter? < 1216775584 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never used macros so i cant really know one way or another < 1216775604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it doesn't matter usually, because if you're using a function/macro you pretty much already know what to expect. < 1216775653 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: pretty much all of the control flow in lisp is done with macros. < 1216775659 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cond, if, loop, etc. < 1216775663 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special forms, i know. < 1216775696 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cond and if don't really surprise me much < 1216775698 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1216775701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop is just... weird. < 1216775704 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1216775722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know if i like the syntax for it in scheme but < 1216775828 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now im off < 1216775841 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kkk < 1216775841 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[self setStatus: Away] < 1216775853 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive-away < 1216776281 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216776374 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216778777 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216780131 0 :psygnisfive-away!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! :D < 1216780442 0 :psygnisfive-away!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1216780446 0 :psygnisfive-away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive < 1216780450 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1216780478 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many of you are people who would be interested in Normish (a.k.a. rootnomic) but aren't aware of its existence. >:-) < 1216780490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is rootnomic < 1216780493 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is nomic in general < 1216780528 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomic in general is a game of changing rules: usually, a player proposes some change to the rules (or other part of the state of the game), and if it passes a vote, it's implemented. < 1216780535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, that < 1216780548 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normish is the same, but proposals are executables, and if they pass a vote, they're run as root. < 1216780575 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure eventually it will have politics and a stock market and a justice system and such. :-P < 1216780610 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I haven't done anything impressive with it yet. < 1216781053 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a proposal system that does anything more than count the number of people that have a copy of a file in their ~/proposals directory... < 1216781247 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, nobody has any points. I guess that doesn't do a good job of encouraging competitive people. < 1216781265 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on getting a point as soon as possible. < 1216782493 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope, what should we make our aithingy do < 1216782527 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make it write proposals for Normish. :-P < 1216782534 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1216782540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More likely, it would buy and sell things on Normish.) < 1216782545 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it build more of itself. < 1216782554 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, i figured out a way to do like.. a neural network using map and reduce < 1216782564 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, cool. < 1216782567 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is reduce? < 1216782576 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce is.. < 1216782585 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn a collection into a single item < 1216782588 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1216782600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its sometimes known as fold < 1216782624 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl (+) [1,2,3,4,5] = 15 < 1216782632 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+2+3+4+5 < 1216782638 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using haskell < 1216782641 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapreduce, like the internal google tool? < 1216782652 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be doable on MapReduce but no < 1216782661 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking just map and reduce. < 1216782662 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the same operations, I mean? < 1216782666 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1216782670 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216782670 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MapReduce has more than just map and reduce < 1216782675 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you guys know what maps and reduces are < 1216782701 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok here, can i do some haskell code? < 1216782730 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f [] = [] < 1216782730 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f x:xs = f x : map f xs < 1216782735 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no haskell coder, but I'm sure I know what you're talking about by some other name < 1216782758 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a map would naturally be something like what the data structure does < 1216782800 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a reduce seems like a general term for operations like summing and concatenation < 1216782802 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f init [] = init < 1216782802 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr f init x:xs = f x (foldr f init xs) < 1216782808 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr being a right reduce < 1216782823 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summation is a kind of reduce, sure < 1216782827 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a reduce with + < 1216782833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :products being reduce with * < 1216782844 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenation being reduce with ++ or whatever < 1216782852 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a reduce is the application of any commutative operator to a list of elements? < 1216782865 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt have to be commutative < 1216782872 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has to be closed < 1216782888 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed under the datatype? < 1216782892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216782897 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be of type < 1216782899 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, I'm with you < 1216782901 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a->a->a < 1216782913 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a < 1216782964 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1216782969 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map here refers to applying one function to every element of a list, yes? < 1216782976 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216782983 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1216782992 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f [a,b,c,...] = [f a, f b, f c, ...] < 1216783006 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googles MapReduce is not just a map then a reduce < 1216783024 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really what it is is a map, then a sort-into-buckets-by-some-criteria, then a reduce < 1216783039 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but MapSortReduce doesnt sound as cool < 1216783053 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1216783065 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i figure its a map+reduce problem is < 1216783083 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a neural network that uses discrete time units, each state is a function of the last state < 1216783087 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216783125 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-121-181.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216783128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each node (map), its a result of averaging the sum (reduce) of the weighted inputs (map) < 1216783151 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to map some "update" function over each neuron to produce the networks next state < 1216783185 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the update function being something that reduces with + the result of mapping a get-and-weight-input function over the inputs list for that node < 1216783303 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse, for learning you need yet another map of some sort < 1216783330 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it might ultimately be better to have the whole thing be object oriented and let it run itself, but you get the idea anyway :p < 1216783339 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and itd be fun to see if such a thing could be done < 1216783803 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la < 1216784676 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eeshoo. < 1216784682 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216784696 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216784905 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeshoo? < 1216785144 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whtats eeshoo? < 1216785528 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interjection. < 1216785540 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has no denotative meaning. < 1216786965 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216788110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what an interjection is, thank you :p < 1216789758 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that this particular interjection has no denotative meaning; many interjections do have denotative meanings to some extent. < 1216789779 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, it's difficult to lie with an interjection. < 1216790822 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216790822 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216793541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1216795938 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1216796081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1216796086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: got a mail from Mike Riley < 1216796101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says he's feeling like bringing RC/Funge-98 to Mycology standards < 1216797048 0 :augur!n=augur@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216797048 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216797077 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest40729 < 1216797852 0 :Guest40729!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive < 1216798413 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1216798703 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216798703 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216799768 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216799805 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1216799999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1216800000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1216800104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nice < 1216800171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about getting a website up somewhere? < 1216801840 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216801905 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216803948 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216804040 0 :CakeProphet!n=chatzill@h134.25.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216805186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reduce is just a specialization of a catamorphism < 1216807675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1216807885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beats me, but I'm sure that if he's going to want to release software he's going to put it on the 'Net somewhere. :-P < 1216808173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm Def-BF really needs a nop instruction < 1216808192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some optimizing < 1216808328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in blocks marked as "may optimise" it can now also optimize constant jumps/data pointer pushes < 1216808427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, about stdlib, got any details of functions that will be in it? < 1216808452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will release my stdlib code under some BSD style license btw < 1216808483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I will most likely implement parts in optimized C for use in the compiler < 1216808557 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.96.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216808576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but tell tusho about it, he will like it, and think of the TRDS bit too < 1216808591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1216808592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1216808596 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose been using my nick < 1216808602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1216808604 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we talkin' bout < 1216808608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, using your nick? < 1216808609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1216808612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216808613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm < 1216808614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: got a mail from Mike Riley < 1216808614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : says he's feeling like bringing RC/Funge-98 to Mycology standards < 1216808614 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing you told Deewiant < 1216808617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tell me < 1216808617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, nice < 1216808617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant, what about getting a website up somewhere? < 1216808620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: beats me, but I'm sure that if he's going to want to release software he's going to put it on the 'Net somewhere. :-P < 1216808636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC/Funge has the TRDS crap < 1216808637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i release software telepathically < 1216808648 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up votes 6 < 1216808649 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down votes 5 < 1216808650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darnit < 1216808697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't think using duff's device will be such a problem when you compile from high level code < 1216808719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you will have an attribute to mark code as "not a jump target" < 1216809365 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216809365 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216811583 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1216812402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, hey, good point, maybe I'll finally get something to compare my implementation of TRDS against :-) < 1216812744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you said you wanted case insensitivity before? < 1216812751 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan not this again < 1216812761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, does that include nomics? :P < 1216812768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1216812777 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'd point out that your proposal did not introduce case insensitivity < 1216812782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it required actions to be in uppercase < 1216812802 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(anyway, nomics are prime candidates for "Fucking With Your Mind") < 1216812810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and case sensitivity certainly does that) < 1216812828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is case sensitive, yet this doesn't "fuck with my mind" as you said < 1216812968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c isn't english < 1216813038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1216813069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, English is more like some sort of RPC language < 1216813078 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not rly < 1216813087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used to send data and requests, not to program the "units" < 1216813391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what do you think of lemon (as in the parser generator) < 1216813398 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool < 1216813425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it easier or harder than flex? < 1216813725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ever tried to mmap() an empty file? < 1216813735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get some interesting results < 1216813746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1216813746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Couldn't mmap() input file: Invalid argument" < 1216813748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flex is a lexer < 1216813750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemon is a parser generator < 1216813760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah typo. < 1216813782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1216813783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite uses lemon < 1216813788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know that < 1216816856 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216818959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, for function names, can you reserve some namespace for compiler provided functions? As in non-standard ones. < 1216818966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the prefix __ would be good? < 1216819026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be needed to implement some stuff < 1216819612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1216819962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need some sort of "external" too < 1216819969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm writing a suggested extension spec < 1216822779 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1216823240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how is a variable declared in Def-BF? < 1216823258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var: var_name value < 1216823264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for example: < 1216823267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not mentioned in spec < 1216823270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var: a "ABC" < 1216823273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1216823279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how do you later assign it? < 1216823287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in foo=2; < 1216823290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1216823309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo?0x00000002 < 1216823310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and the string "var:" is not in the standard < 1216823323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and I must be reading different standards. < 1216823330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, care to paste yours < 1216823337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Lemme find it. < 1216823361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh. Can't find it. < 1216823381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe me, variables are defined via var:. < 1216823481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1216819756.html < 1216823486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my suggestion at extension < 1216823490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus some other stuff < 1216823499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also how did the flex/yacc stuff work out? < 1216823506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, can you pastebin what you currently got < 1216823517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: *prod of doom* < 1216823524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Real life got in the way. < 1216823532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well just pastebin what you got then < 1216823537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will help at least < 1216823547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It and I are on different systems. < 1216823555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again... < 1216823569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I will leave at the same time as I did yesterday (23:00 UTC+2) < 1216823584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you get home at same time I will get it tomorrow. sigh < 1216823745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, any comments on suggestions at http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1216819756.html < 1216823758 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216823781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem like good suggestions. < 1216823823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway I'm waiting for you before I can make any progress (flex/yacc stuff is what is needed now) < 1216823847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend trying the Yacc stuff on your own. < 1216823861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Actually, I might be able to provide the Flex code now. < 1216823868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be useful < 1216823941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn://nonlogic.org/pikhq/defbf/trunk < 1216824043 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216824109 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216824123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, thanks < 1216824124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1216824211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, thanks < 1216824228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is yywrap for? < 1216824287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember there was a good reason for it. . . I just don't recall ATM. < 1216824332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. It indicates to lex whether or not there is another file to process. < 1216824344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If yywrap returns 1, then lex doesn't process another file. < 1216824543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wouldn't that be needed for import:? < 1216824564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's just not been implemented yet. . . < 1216826702 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: why did you leave rootnomic? < 1216827012 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216827228 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216827976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1216828048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: the implementation's hideous usage and constraints < 1216828131 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216828514 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 'sup? < 1216828877 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216829067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1216829108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once again, I would like to say that Andy McKee is fucking awesome. < 1216829122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, new DC on 'Friday'. < 1216829150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind. < 1216829176 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1216829184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New DC when DC recovers from a bicycle wreck. < 1216829186 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be *a* friday < 1216829204 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad you're beginning to share my rage about DC < 1216829206 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just got out of the ER yesterday, so, well, there goes Dresden Codak. < 1216829223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he can't draw ATM. < 1216829228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fudge monkeys. < 1216829231 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiiight < 1216829246 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: what do you mean 'riiiight'? < 1216829261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it okay to not draw comics immediately after coming out of ER? < 1216829308 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you consider aaron's history with this strip you'd start to see my point here < 1216829369 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the last 6 months or so, diaz has been doing DC for a living. In this time we've had what- 4 pages?!? < 1216829377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than that. . . < 1216829390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But definitely not the 'once a week' schedule he claimed. < 1216829404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't read that comic < 1216829409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i'll just assume you're right :p < 1216829426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most annoying part? < 1216829430 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: then limit your brilliant commentary to your areas of knowledge < 1216829434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comic is so damned good that we stick around. < 1216829444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: sheesh; don't be so snappy < 1216829454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can't even just ignore it. < 1216829454 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only take so much abuse as an audience member < 1216829479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abuse? wtf? what the fuck have I ever done to you? the only thing I know about you is that you randomly started calling me a little pest a while back and I have no fucking idea why. < 1216829485 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to hell with that shit. < 1216829499 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not talking to you < 1216829513 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abuse as an audience member"- audience for DC < 1216829516 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1216829536 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1216829543 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looked as a reply due to its proximity with the previous reply < 1216829549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in relation to my response < 1216829563 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216829580 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi MikeRiley < 1216829584 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1216829878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: This may sound awful, but. . . I think that DC's update schedule will be indistinguishable from normal because of this. < 1216829899 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where the "riiiight" came from < 1216829917 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not awful, it's realistic < 1216829956 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this dude's entire job is creating this comic, and he can barely keep a MONTHLY update schedule < 1216829970 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pages are well done, but they honestly couldn't take more than 2 or 3 days < 1216829988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One which he kept when he also had a full time job on the side. < 1216829993 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once again THIS IS HIS SOLE SOURCE OF INCOME. < 1216830019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the comic, but *damn*. < 1216830051 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have difficulty interpreting him as anything other than either an *incredibly* unlucky victim of circumstance or a tremendous lazy jackass < 1216830091 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's exceeded the previously existing fred gallagher benchmark by a wide margin < 1216830342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda sad to compare to other webcomics with an insanely good update schedule. . . < 1216830404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has the right to be lazy you know :P < 1216830407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :General Protection Fault, for example, was updated daily for 7.75 years (dropped down to weekly, then 3 times a week, due to him having a son) < 1216830408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're living proof if you still read it... < 1216830409 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kidding? Gallagher's update schedule is terrible. He's only updated about half of the days he was supposed to over the run of the comic- even less if you don't count "art days" and "T-shirt guy dom" as comics < 1216830440 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, who is going to buy http://c-jump.com/ and report back to us on how fun it is < 1216830444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This in addition to the artist having a full time programming job. < 1216830502 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a really boring board game, but a valiant effort < 1216830585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it'd be rather amusing < 1216830591 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs more duffs device, though < 1216830593 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is playing metal slug 7 EU version
< 1216830631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sebbu: while typing? < 1216830643 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i paused < 1216830657 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216830659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Rhode_Island_man_arrested_with_highest_DUI_blood-alcohol_reading_ever < 1216830662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. < 1216830671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.491 BAC. < 1216830675 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216830684 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c-jump facts: Skiing and snowboarding is a perfect programming analogy. < 1216830691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe the man is alive. < 1216830701 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course. How did I never see this perfect analogy before < 1216830712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though his organs may be well-preserved. < 1216830713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows little about alcohol
< 1216830725 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: how about a language that co-ordinates some skiiers and snowboarders < 1216830736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to create the most impractical, slow and error-prone TC language ever < 1216830738 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it happen < 1216830750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A BAC of 0.400 makes most people comatose. < 1216830768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0.500 is basically fatal. < 1216830768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1216830786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1216830788 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include references to ski-culture and oodles of nasty multithreading bits < 1216830803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: the whole thing is nasty multithreading, really, isn't it < 1216830804 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: at that point, his blood would be a quite potent alcoholic beverage < 1216830818 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the optimum method of using it is when the skiiers and snowboarders are all around the world < 1216830826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop every now to use a laptop with irc to co-ordinate < 1216830834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by 'optimum' you mean 'even less accurate' < 1216830856 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sima... semaph... oh, to hell with it- just hang loose brah!" < 1216830871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1216830951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I think there's less alcohol in some hard liquors. . . < 1216830963 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this is correct < 1216830973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did the guy do, chug a gallon of everclear? < 1216830982 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blood with a BAC of .5 would presumably be 100-proof < 1216830988 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe intravenously < 1216831044 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine how that wouldn't just denature his red blood cells, halt oxygen transport and kill him instantly < 1216831082 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let alone the fact that that's enough alcohol to shut down his fucking brain stem < 1216831111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say AnMaster, do you know where ais is? < 1216831135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's enough alcohol to *preserve* his body. < 1216831184 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: physically, yes. cellularly, no. < 1216831194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1216831223 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever rubbed a lemon on some meat and then looked at it under a microscope? < 1216831231 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ever rubbed a lemon on some meat and then looked at it under a microscope?" < 1216831234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why yes, I do it all the time! < 1216831427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nop I don't < 1216831449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, what did you think about the extension suggestion I had? < 1216831454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1216819756.html that is < 1216831458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Def-BF < 1216831793 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, some of this has been addressed in this example, which provides a more concrete view of syntax and usage: http://nonlogic.org/dump/text/1216828051.html < 1216831892 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exiting in the current spec is possible in two ways- calling a % with nothing on the jump stack or reaching the end of code, so I don't think an explicit addition to the language is necessary < 1216831897 0 :cherez!n=cherez@CPE-69-76-143-134.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216831925 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stack-based version of that can be translated into assembly quite easily by initializing the jump stack with the address of a "Halt" or similar instruction < 1216831936 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly RTN < 1216832074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216832080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, what about attributes? < 1216832089 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm giving that thought < 1216832098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, also prefixes I guess make sense < 1216832281 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216832585 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216833450 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216834355 0 :iano!n=iosgood@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216834377 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1216834393 0 :iano!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1216834405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed < 1216834435 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1216835195 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216835391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: woo, got a copy of Cat's-Eye's Befunge diagnostics from Mike < 1216835397 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out that 3k4 should push 4 fours on stack :-( < 1216835415 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to chris that is what it is supposed to do... < 1216835425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, you're here too < 1216835426 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cat's eye diagnostics work that way... < 1216835429 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i am... < 1216835436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent :-) < 1216835462 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for pointing out my { mistake,,,,i wonder if that was a typo in the specs,,,seems kinda worthless to work that way... < 1216835479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably was < 1216835513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, even if it pushed on the TOSS I think it'd be quite useless :-P < 1216835549 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i cannot really see much use for it there either,,, < 1216835550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you going to do with a bunch of zeroes anyway, aside from the fact that you can push them by just using 0 < 1216835556 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would at least make more sense... < 1216835561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1216835578 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case you want some zeros for some stupid reason... < 1216835583 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1216835610 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216835619 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will modify my interpreter to work like the specs,,, < 1216835619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: woo, got a copy of Cat's-Eye's Befunge diagnostics from Mike < 1216835619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : turns out that 3k4 should push 4 fours on stack :-( < 1216835619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1216835620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1216835629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1216835635 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not to me either... < 1216835638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently Mike asked Chris < 1216835640 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is what chris told me long ago... < 1216835641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what he said < 1216835647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's what the Cats-Eye diagnostics say < 1216835656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well give me a reason it is so < 1216835665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it is a bug in that "Befunge diagnostics" < 1216835665 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only exception to k was 0k was supposed to skip an instruction... < 1216835668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get into all these special cases like we do currently < 1216835680 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do while (n--) foo(); < 1216835682 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,, i would prefer k to work such that you can iterate once. < 1216835685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exception that if (n == 0) move(); < 1216835702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way, either entering from left or right 3k4 will push 4 fours on the stack < 1216835704 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was chris' original intent, no special cases < 1216835709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either it will push 3 fours, or 4 threes < 1216835719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what you'd think isn't it :-P < 1216835726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the spec says nothing on the matter < 1216835728 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what i originally thought. < 1216835737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a reason it doesn't act like I say it should < 1216835742 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 originally worked that way, until chris pointed out to me that it was wrong < 1216835745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from "bug in diagnosis tool" < 1216835749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the spec doesn't say that k skips over its instruction < 1216835755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.... < 1216835766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the 108 specs do say that. this will be interesting < 1216835771 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, it just says it executes the next instruction,,,but does not speciy that it moves the IP < 1216835772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only says that it executes it 0 times if given 0 < 1216835776 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216835777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then... < 1216835791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't say that it moves past it if given 0, either. :-P < 1216835800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, got this diagnosis thing anywhere? < 1216835807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I can put it up, sec < 1216835810 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically no, other than it says the 0k will not execute the next instruction < 1216835824 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cat's eye diagnostics are on my site now < 1216835830 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/ < 1216835843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, okay < 1216835848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: use that then, can't be bothered :-P < 1216835849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh MikeRiley is the funge guy < 1216835850 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooooooooool < 1216835852 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stupid k instruction has always been a problem!! eheheheheeh < 1216835860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216835861 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he is the funge guy... < 1216835864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anything else where it disagrees with mycology? < 1216835871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haven't run it yet, actually < 1216835873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: want to? < 1216835879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well will shortly < 1216835887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got some other stuff to finish < 1216835926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this disagnosis thing isn't on catseye.tc? < 1216835930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: hey, 1.0.8! What's new WRT 1.0.7 < 1216835931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come comes* < 1216835936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1216835944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a link to it somewhere there but it's broken < 1216835949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I couldn't find it anywhere < 1216835950 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug fixes mainly bewteen 1.0.7 and 1.0.8... < 1216835956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but evidently Mike had a copy squirreled away :-) < 1216835965 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, from back when i was dealing with chris on this... < 1216835972 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i kept a copy!!! eheheheheeh < 1216835975 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping you might < 1216835977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :-) < 1216836009 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, i think k should be more properly defined,,,,i like the ability to iterate once and then skip.... < 1216836026 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being able to execute an instrucion 0 or 2+ seems weird to me... < 1216836037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ ../cfunge diagt.b98 < 1216836037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread 2 startedthread 1 startedFAIL no stackFAIL < 1216836042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what that means < 1216836045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice :-D < 1216836047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try < 1216836054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway it is much harder to parse the output of this tool < 1216836058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than of mycology < 1216836075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, mycology was partly designed for it to be easy to see what's going on < 1216836079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the output, that is < 1216836081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the code. ;-) < 1216836081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: line 0: type: diag3c.b98: not found <-- not sure what the heck it is trying to do there < 1216836096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: trying to use 'i' mayhaps < 1216836096 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diag3.b98 loads diag3c as an overlay < 1216836104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, rather = I guess < 1216836111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right, sh < 1216836133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does it expect? that I have it chmod +x and have PATH include current dir? < 1216836138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is true on my system < 1216836148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so diag1.b98 loops infinitely < 1216836155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it doesn't here < 1216836159 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should not loop indefinitely < 1216836166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it quits with: < 1216836167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate:!!!!!!!!!FAIL < 1216836167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or then it just takes a long time < 1216836170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1216836176 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: would you come back if rootnomic's proposal system were replaced with something better? < 1216836176 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangs after compare:OK for me < 1216836179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.028s < 1216836179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.017s < 1216836179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.008s < 1216836182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, cfunge is fast < 1216836183 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an html file in the archive, which shows the output from the diagnosics,,,what it should look like.. < 1216836188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, can you beat that time ;P < 1216836195 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: already discussed this < 1216836198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diag3.b98 outputs the @v-figure twice < 1216836204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you left in a huff? < 1216836205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: ignore him, he's a performance freak < 1216836209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1216836214 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never started it < 1216836220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it outputs it once here < 1216836220 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.002s < 1216836220 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.000s < 1216836220 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.000s < 1216836222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ookay, diag3b.b98 also loops infinitely < 1216836224 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is running diag1 < 1216836225 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH BURN < 1216836227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hm, impressive < 1216836229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1216836234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: By performance freak, we mean posix_fadvise. < 1216836242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, he doesn't actually optimize algorithms or do where it's needed. < 1216836244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diag3c outputs nothing at all. < 1216836246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, from diag1.b98 ? < 1216836247 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember what tusho said when we discussed this before
< 1216836248 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just sticks posix_ in front of every function. < 1216836253 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes from diag1 < 1216836258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, very fun < 1216836259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagt gives what it gave for AnMaster. < 1216836268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent, looks like I have something to do this weekend. :-) < 1216836269 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagt gives me this: < 1216836270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, any idea what is wrong then? < 1216836276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1216836282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not gonna look in any detail right now < 1216836283 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread 2 started < 1216836283 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread 1 started < 1216836283 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1216836283 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Instructions Executed: 793 in 758 cycles < 1216836283 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Execution time : 0.00 seconds < 1216836284 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions per second: inf < 1216836286 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exiting with return code = 0 < 1216836287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well please tell me what the issues were when you find them, as I got a busy weekend < 1216836288 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.004s < 1216836290 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.000s < 1216836292 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.004s < 1216836297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, a good hash library? < 1216836304 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-205-164.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1216836305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rolled his own I believe < 1216836308 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tree of some kind? < 1216836309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, or using static memory model stuff? < 1216836314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1216836315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how about sane optimizations < 1216836316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static memory, too < 1216836320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to your rather random attempts < 1216836321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default < 1216836324 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was on the static model. let me try it on the dynamic < 1216836336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, that should be more interesting :) < 1216836340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: there's a bug in your dynamic, unless you applied one of my patches < 1216836346 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagt on the dynamic model: < 1216836347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wraparound didn't work IIRC < 1216836349 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread 2 started < 1216836349 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread 1 started < 1216836349 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1216836349 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Instructions Executed: 793 in 758 cycles < 1216836349 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Execution time : 0.00 seconds < 1216836350 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions per second: inf < 1216836352 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exiting with return code = 0 < 1216836354 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.003s < 1216836356 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.000s < 1216836357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1216836358 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.000s < 1216836360 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already applied that patch, thanks!!! < 1216836381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so it was correct? I just hacked something that worked, but it could be a symptom of something else < 1216836390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be... < 1216836391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a "+1" somewhere didn't seem too smart :-P < 1216836396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hrrm. I need to take a look at your memory model, except your code wasn't very clean, nor well documented ;P < 1216836410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially where it's surrounded by two lines where there are no "+1" but which do essentially the same thing < 1216836412 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope,,,it is horrible!!! ehehehehehe i am working on cleaning it up... < 1216836434 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i thought that strange too,,,,need to look at that section more,,,been so long since i have looked at that code... < 1216836435 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess tusho isn't interested in rootnomic for the time being no matter what happens. < 1216836450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: got any RC/Funge-98 fingerprint documentation you want to complain about? I can't think of any offhand < 1216836523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... the whole FNGR thing < 1216836540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, cfunge can be found at http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/ < 1216836545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just fyi < 1216836588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cfunge aims to be fast and standard conforming. cfunge also aims to never crash. This may seem an odd statement, surely every software aims for that? But cfunge aims to never crash on any input except possibly due to out of memory error (and even then the "crash" should be "graceful", as in a message telling what happened). Sadly it is common for other Funge interpreters to crash on obscure input (division by zero in some fingerprint, not checking array bou < 1216836590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how you say 'we' < 1216836608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes it makes it "sound" professional ;P < 1216836620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't care what you think < 1216836623 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today the cfunge Developer Committee passed, with a 7-53 vote, to enable a new switch which, when enabled, would increase the speed by 500% at the cost of not running any programs. < 1216836623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is esoteric after all < 1216836625 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have found the cfunge site, want to try it... < 1216836633 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge 73.1 is being profiled and will be released in 5 years. < 1216836642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, :D < 1216836677 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you not understand about FNGR?? that way i know how to write the documentation better for it... < 1216836683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, FNGR < 1216836687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contradicts the Funge spec < 1216836690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, no it just breaks the Funge specs < 1216836703 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so?? < 1216836721 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it breaks something important,,,then i need to fix it,,, < 1216836735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked as closely at your code as Deewiant has < 1216836738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he better tell you < 1216836767 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i intended it, it should not break the specs at all... < 1216836768 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216836792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it assumes one fingerprint stack < 1216836796 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than the fact it changes how ( and ) work depending on what mode it is nn < 1216836799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the spec has one stack for each of A-Z < 1216836814 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fingerprint stack covers all the A-Z ... < 1216836822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work, though < 1216836825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can unload and load totally random and end up with one half fingerprint < 1216836825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run mycology and see ;-) < 1216836843 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be a bug in my implementation... < 1216836856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, any complex enough software will have bugs < 1216836858 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but FNGR should conform if it is implemented correctly... < 1216836860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think RC/Funge-98 does fingerprints basically wrong, yes < 1216836860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge certainly have < 1216836870 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I do think that FNGR can't possibly conform < 1216836876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't remember the details right now. < 1216836895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what ccbi -p outputs on the subject: < 1216836895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "FNGR" fingerprint is unimplemented because it is incompatible with the < 1216836895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way fingerprint loading and unloading is described in the Funge-98 < 1216836895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specification. < 1216836895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, the Funge-98 spec speaks of having a stack of semantics for < 1216836898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each instruction in the range ['A', 'Z'], while the "FNGR" fingerprint < 1216836900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :describes having just one fingerprint stack. < 1216836903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Incidentally, this is one reason why RC/Funge-98 fails some of the Mycology < 1216836905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tests related to the fingerprint mechanism.) < 1216836922 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implemenation could be faulty.... < 1216836929 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from my understanding of the specs... < 1216836943 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading a fingerprint overloads the A-Z instructions... < 1216836944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specs are unclear in a lot of areas < 1216836951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm working on Funge108 specs < 1216836954 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if another fingerprint is loaded it overloads the overloaded ones... < 1216836956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec is rather clear on this one, though < 1216836957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clarify the undefined < 1216836964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html#Fingerprints < 1216836968 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any instruction not defined, it will fall through to the previous fingerprint... < 1216836982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, essentially < 1216836985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, this is true, but what happens when you unload out of order? < 1216836993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1216836994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should pop the top item < 1216836999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it isn't in the same fingerprint < 1216837001 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can load ROMA which provides M < 1216837008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then unload MODU, which also provides M < 1216837009 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the mode you are using FNGR in,,, < 1216837017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you didn't load MODU < 1216837023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1216837032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result should be that M is now whatever was loaded before ROMA < 1216837038 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,,, < 1216837049 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1216837050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, load ROMA, load MODU, unload ROMA, now M will map to ROMA again < 1216837054 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that FNGR and change the order of the overloads... < 1216837087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: for instance, N < 1216837089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think you should drop funge108 < 1216837094 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 3-7 people use funge98 < 1216837098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Get number of fingerprints loaded" - impossible to know < 1216837099 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about, uhh, 1 will use funge108 < 1216837108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge98 is ambiguous, but mycology specifies it well enough < 1216837135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it says nowhere mycology is the only interpretation :P < 1216837139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or reference one < 1216837215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: reading it through now, if you drop the idea of a covers-all fingerprint stack (i.e. don't use it to specify what the instructions do) I think FNGR might be possible < 1216837225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from N < 1216837243 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm,,,will have to think about that... < 1216837244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does T do? < 1216837250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tag stack entry n with new fingerprint fp"? < 1216837256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says nothing to me :-P < 1216837256 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what, all 7 people who use it know about mycology < 1216837278 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fp is the same as the hex equivalent of the name,,,, < 1216837285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can yell "de facto", but there's nothing wrong with that, and besides, if all 7 users agree on it it's not really de facto any more. < 1216837289 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in essence t allows you to rename a loaded fingerprint < 1216837294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so that can't work either < 1216837299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since again, you can't know what fingerprints are loaded. < 1216837313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1216837323 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FNGR extension does however know what is loaded... < 1216837325 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those instructions should modify only one of the instructions A-Z < 1216837336 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmm < 1216837336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it can't < 1216837343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :load FNGR, load ROMA, unload NULL < 1216837353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the ROMA instructions are gone now < 1216837358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are some of FNGR's < 1216837362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is truly loaded? < 1216837366 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not be the case < 1216837373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it should :-) < 1216837377 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have FNGR, ROMA, and NULL loaded.... < 1216837387 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then unloading NULL, you will still have the semantics for FNGR and ROMA < 1216837387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no NULL loaded < 1216837389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just unloaded < 1216837403 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if NULL is unloaded without being loaded first, then nothing should happen... < 1216837406 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"RGNF"4("AMOR"4("LLUN"4) < 1216837408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incorrect < 1216837428 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmm < 1216837438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: the spec says this explicitly < 1216837440 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The corresponding ) "Unload Semantics" instruction unloads the semantics for a given fingerprint from any or all of the instructions A to Z (even if that fingerprint had never been loaded before). < 1216837445 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as using FNGR, nothing should happen, would have to look at how the specs deal with ,,,, hold on... < 1216837446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(even if that fingerprint < 1216837447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : had never been loaded before)* < 1216837461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if NULL is unloaded without being loaded first, then nothing should happen... < 1216837464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it should < 1216837466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence, you can essentially forget about N and T < 1216837467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the spec < 1216837474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how those can possibly work < 1216837475 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unloads the semantics for a given fingerprint,,,not necesarily semantics for another just because it was not loaded... < 1216837498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, the spec agree with Deewiant above < 1216837527 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,,FNGR is a feral extension afterall.... < 1216837537 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to does change the nature of the interprter if you have it loaded... < 1216837576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, but this shouldn't affect the behaviour if it isn't loaded < 1216837599 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, if it is not loaded, then the spec behaviour is what should happen < 1216837608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, which, iirc, doesn't < 1216837630 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is certainly possible... < 1216837643 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afterall, my interpreter was written to my interpretation of the specs... < 1216837650 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in some cases, the specs are not terribly clear... < 1216837659 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so and arbitrary decisions were made... < 1216837666 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could certainly have picked wrong with this one... < 1216837688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think other interpreters agree with the model we're explaining but I can't remember exactly < 1216837695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offence meant, but the text "(even if that fingerprint had never been loaded before)" seems pretty clear to me. < 1216837710 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see that,,,,but wonder if that was the intent... < 1216837717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be there, if not? < 1216837719 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is in the section talking about layering fingerprints... < 1216837724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the examples below < 1216837739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, it doesn't show that < 1216837741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general, I prefer to adhere to the letter of the spec and not the intent < 1216837747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure Deewiant is correct here < 1216837764 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216837856 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and in general, I prefer to adhere to the letter of the spec and not the intent < 1216837858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must hate malbolge < 1216837861 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also says "unloads the semantics for a given fingerprint" not necesarily unloads a specificly bound definition < 1216837883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: my interpretation of that is, again, why would it say that so explicitly if it would just do nothing < 1216837897 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,,,,it is a confusing point... < 1216837900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: how's that < 1216837909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the implementation swaps an instruction from the spec < 1216837912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard the spec there was buggy in some regard < 1216837916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _all_ programs and implementations use the implementation's version < 1216837917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I think Deewiant is correct, and iirc the other interpreters does it that way < 1216837918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the spec < 1216837919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216837924 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like k,,,,i wonder if the the intent and what was written were not the same... < 1216837925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does FBBI do? < 1216837930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: so, firstly, "in general", and secondly, yes. ;-) < 1216837952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can't remember. it doesn't support many fingerprints (NULL and ROMA only IIRC) so I may not even have tested it. < 1216837963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216837978 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention FBBI itself does not conform well to the spec... < 1216837985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also. I hate TRDS ;P, it isn't just feral, it is wild < 1216837994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1216837994 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is wild!!!! eheheheheheeheh < 1216837995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS is excellent < 1216838004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best idea ever < 1216838008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't plan to implement it < 1216838010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the reference implementation doesn't work at all :-P < 1216838013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1216838019 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw somebody mention about time travelling IPs, just had to try it!!! eheheheheeheheh < 1216838019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opps < 1216838021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops* < 1216838036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, does that include testing it? hm < 1216838036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazingly enough your spec is actually consistent and can work :-) < 1216838040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :-D < 1216838050 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mine some of it works and some does not,,,never really finished that module... < 1216838068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I understand why you didn't finish it < 1216838077 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is really a beast!!! eheheheheheeheh < 1216838088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unusual laugh that < 1216838097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no offence meant) < 1216838112 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation supports stop and start time, space jumps and single ip time jumps....multiple time travelling ips do not work properly in mine... < 1216838124 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,i am an unusual person!!! eheheheheeheheh < 1216838143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: implementing TRDS meant changing all of: main function, IP structure, Befunge-space structure, unrelated instructions (, and .) < 1216838150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, anyway I had issues with colliding handprints, so my idea is to replace it with URIs < 1216838153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and instruction execution function of course < 1216838154 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it changes a lot!!!!! < 1216838155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for funge-108 < 1216838162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: oh, that reminds me < 1216838167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding I/O in TRDS < 1216838183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only specify, and implement, that , and . don't do anything twice < 1216838197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about fingerprint IO? < 1216838197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about others, like &~io= < 1216838203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other fingerprints, yeah < 1216838223 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm,,,,cannot remember about , and . in that module... < 1216838235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you'll get there eventually, maybe. :-P < 1216838269 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did i say that , and . dont do anything twice??? < 1216838279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I got no idea if I passed part 3 of that catseye diagnosis tool < 1216838285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hard to interpret the output < 1216838298 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: there is an html file that shows what should be output < 1216838307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I hope I didn't invent it :-D let me see < 1216838335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 'funge-108' should replace 'PSOX' as a meme < 1216838339 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably did not invent it,,,,but i do not see in the spec where i mentioned it... < 1216838340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the environment of course differs < 1216838342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not catchy enough harumph < 1216838353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh, do grow up... < 1216838354 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the environment and command line would be different... < 1216838367 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're writing a befunge spec, I think I can be as silly as I like < 1216838374 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: okay, great, you don't specify it, you only implement it :-) < 1216838383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the "PrintTime" variable < 1216838388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again, only for , and . < 1216838389 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,,i do???? i will have to look at that again... < 1216838401 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why i did that......hmmmmmmm < 1216838402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around line 550 in main.c < 1216838405 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1216838406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: how, exactly, do you vocalise ,,,,? < 1216838410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes some degree of sense < 1216838416 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that , is a pause, . a longer pause and ... a longer one < 1216838417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, with all those ,,,, I first thought it was befunge code ;P < 1216838420 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does ,,,,,,,, sound like? < 1216838421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that IO would happen only once < 1216838425 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheeheheheheheeh < 1216838433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: a lot of short pauses really fast < 1216838442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nah it is befunge code < 1216838446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 'Ok * * * * * I do?' < 1216838453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy breathing, I guess < 1216838463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe ,,,,,, = ... < 1216838470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: but, that doesn't really work. I can't remember why, but IO will happen more than once, at least with that simple a scheme. :-) < 1216838472 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see it now,,,,it does not print before a given time....not sure why i did that.... < 1216838492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, it makes sense that IO should happen only once, and not when traveling back in time < 1216838493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no he is just outputting the string he just wrote >:#,_@ < 1216838494 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i am concerned,,,io should happen anytime that it is encountered... < 1216838499 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why i did that..... < 1216838511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1216838512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using this at the end of the irc line is better though ;) >:#,_@ < 1216838514 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too, I suppose < 1216838527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:#,_@ is one fucked up smiley < 1216838536 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trouble is,,,that code was written 10 years ago!!!! and poorly documented!!!! eheheheheeheheheheheheheh < 1216838538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it's funge code < 1216838541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1216838543 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shut up you < 1216838546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, prints until a 0 < 1216838552 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps AnMaster
< 1216838554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, useful to print a 0"gnirts" < 1216838561 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rips off AnMaster's head
< 1216838573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 12 year old isn't strong enough for that ;P < 1216838581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up you < 1216838599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was you who went to crazy measures to prove it < 1216838603 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i need to dig out my old TRDS test program and see if i can come up with a reason for the IO.....more than likely i will just remove it.... < 1216838610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: huh < 1216838611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was < 1216838613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of trds :) < 1216838639 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specs do not mention that io does not repeat...as such....io should occur anytime it is encountered... < 1216838642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, if you can't even code befunge (I got sound proofs you say you can't), why do you care? < 1216838654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: am I not allowed to talk about befunge? < 1216838655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: if you end up telling me that it's forgotten debug code I might be somewhat annoyed :-D < 1216838655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for intruding < 1216838659 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i had those in there for testing reasons.... < 1216838660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, not saying that < 1216838664 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll make sure to stay out of the befunge clique conversations in future < 1216838672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but you may want to learn it < 1216838687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really interested in learning it, but trds is fun < 1216838687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1216838700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, to allow you to contribute to the vibrant Funge community ;P < 1216838704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to write TRDSFuck? < 1216838721 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh god yes < 1216838724 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be like < 1216838725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would be a 64-bit only fingerprint? < 1216838727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the 3 good brainfuck clones < 1216838733 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i really created a mess when i defined that module!!! eheheheheheheeheheheheheh < 1216838736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'd be brainfuck+trds < 1216838747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you certainly created a headache for some < 1216838749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yep, and now you can't just remove it since I implemented it! :-D < 1216838761 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep....going to have to keep it now!!!! eheheheheeh < 1216838767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor MikeRiley < 1216838772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^__^ < 1216838787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway got the fingerprint spec page up somewhere? < 1216838790 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless i use the TRDS module to go back in time before the TRDS module was actually defined!!! ehehehehehe < 1216838791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, your website, yet < 1216838799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my copy from waybackmachine < 1216838802 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of my funge related materials are now on my site... < 1216838806 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.elf-emulation.com/funge/ < 1216838809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ^___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________^ < 1216838810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: but IO happens anyway, so you can't prevent it! ;-) < 1216838814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP MY FACE < 1216838814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD < 1216838818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216838820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND MY EYES. THEY ARE POINTING UPWARDS < 1216838824 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD THE PAIN < 1216838829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, thank to bibtex I can easily update the reference to it in funge-108 ;P < 1216838835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ^_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________^ < 1216838837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH HOLY SHIT < 1216838839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S GROWING < 1216838842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, duh GROW UP < 1216838844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... uh, just ignore me < 1216838919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, um http://web.archive.org/web/20020816190021/http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1088/funge.html is what I used before < 1216838943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it doesn't seem to match any of the pages < 1216838976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, where are your minifunge specs? < 1216838990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you look at all? < 1216838991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah.... < 1216838992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html < 1216839001 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216839003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I couldn't find mini funge there < 1216839005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks again
< 1216839021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bottom < 1216839023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1216839029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216839031 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one on spaw1088 has been gone for 8 years or so... < 1216839043 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was when i was living in switzlerland,,,,and i am no longer there... < 1216839046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the archive page is from 2002-08-16, not even 6 yet ;-) < 1216839056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well not 8... the version was from August 2002 < 1216839061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the last version I found < 1216839079 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,do not know where that came from,,,i left switzlerland in 2000,,, and left that website behind when i did... < 1216839093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it stayed around for some time then < 1216839094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it was up for two years :-) < 1216839104 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing!!! since i was not even paying for it!!! < 1216839124 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate,,,,all current materials are now on my current site... < 1216839124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, did you have some site in-between? < 1216839137 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no....not for my funge stuff... < 1216839140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, just want to know if there are any changes to mini funge or the fingerprints < 1216839145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that version < 1216839149 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i can think of.... < 1216839155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1216839161 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only things that changed between the versions are bug fixes... < 1216839172 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have been thinking about some additional fingerprints.... < 1216839190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes < 1216839195 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheheheeh < 1216839197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I use bibtex, what year do I put in for http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html ? < 1216839202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as year of publishing < 1216839208 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if i can come up with something more complicated than TRDS!!! eheheheheeheheheheheheh < 1216839216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if anybody implements it ;-) < 1216839222 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheheheheeh < 1216839230 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question,,,,just use this year.... < 1216839237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I have already I think, well almost < 1216839240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, C FFI < 1216839242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge < 1216839245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using libffi < 1216839249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't yet finished specs < 1216839251 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should change the version number in the manual tho... < 1216839257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even started implementation < 1216839276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what do you think about that idea? < 1216839354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFFI I call the fingerprint, I can pastebin the (outdated) draft if you want, it won't be implemented that way at all, but it was a first draft, that's all < 1216839366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current version is only in my head atm < 1216839371 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,, < 1216839431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, http://rafb.net/p/LuSAw897.html < 1216839447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also ais523 (intercal maintainer) may have beat you to making something worse < 1216839449 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1216839466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made a fingerprint (based on cfunge) totally replacing main loop that makes it integrate into C-INTERCAL < 1216839476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using computed COME FROM and such inside the funge < 1216839494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think TRDS is more complicated still ;P < 1216839520 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that module is something else.... < 1216839549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for the docs of IFFI (the C-INTERCAL <-> Befunge linking stuff)
< 1216839611 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216839640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/doc/ick.txt < 1216839649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, see "14.2.2 The IFFI Fingerprint" < 1216839654 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1216839673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand parts of it < 1216839739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: decided anything about function attributes in Def-BF yet? < 1216839952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, but I think TRDS is worse than IFFI, don't you? < 1216839966 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,i think so.... < 1216840014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, still what do you think of IFFI :) < 1216840045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess cfunge, or rather C-INTERCAL with patches cfunge, will be the only implementation to ever implement it < 1216840062 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well could be.... < 1216840076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I mean it needs to tie into a INTERCAL interpreter really < 1216840083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compiler < 1216840085 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.... < 1216840086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL is a compiler < 1216840157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time i messed with intercal, i just made an iterpreter, but never really messed with the language much,,,,Befunge came along and that took my interest... < 1216840251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well INTERCAL is pretty hard to interpret too < 1216840263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing it is a pain < 1216840338 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep agree, had a really fun time building my interprter for it... < 1216840372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well befunge is easy to parse, like brainfuck in that aspect < 1216840403 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, easy to parse, sometimes not so easily to implement.... < 1216840411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed! < 1216840426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, your dynamic memory model, what exactly is it? < 1216840435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hash map? < 1216840450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you I haven't really looked at the code yet < 1216840462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I had issues reading it < 1216840508 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure,,,,need to look at it again... < 1216840515 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a hash map tho... < 1216840516 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216840552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I use a hash array with struct { x, y } as the key, it is quite speedy but not as good as your code < 1216840564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could have better cpu < 1216840571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to try it on my cpu to be sure < 1216840574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do that later < 1216840603 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code is just a dynamic array,,,looking at it right now... < 1216840613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. that could cause issues if you put something using p in some huge cell < 1216840627 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem.c contains the code for it... < 1216840637 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it could.... < 1216840668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need 2^32 * 2^32 * 4 (assuming sizeof(fungeCell) == 4) for each sector < 1216840671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1216840682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure, but something huge like that anyway < 1216840704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use 64-bit cells (optionally, selectable at compile time) < 1216840738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, sure that is the dynamic memory model then? < 1216840742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the static one? < 1216840757 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1216840783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, hi < 1216840868 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,,not 100% positive,,,,need to study the code a bit more... < 1216840875 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is kinda convoluted... < 1216840911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1216840935 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that part of the code was a quick and dirty memory manager,,,i normally used it in the static mode... < 1216840945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1216840946 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i need to refamilirize myself with it.... < 1216840950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, right < 1216840966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, figured what's wrong with threads yet? < 1216840983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not going to do anything until the weekend probably < 1216840990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ran them through and left it at that < 1216840990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1216840993 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a dynamic array,,,with a twist... < 1216841002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I figured what was wrong with the "sh" line < 1216841009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is assuming some f*cking dos crap < 1216841013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "type" means "cat" < 1216841017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1216841026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "find path to binary" < 1216841033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I don't think dos even have < 1216841045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you see why Mycology doesn't test = ;-) < 1216841053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do see that < 1216841060 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep,,,, = is problamatic to be able to test... < 1216841076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do have a test in my small cfunge test collection < 1216841080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for stuff like that < 1216841083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumes as POSIX OS < 1216841085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I presume it assumes POSIX? < 1216841086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1216841089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, not portable. :-) < 1216841098 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dynamic model uses a dynamic cell array, each cell has an address associated with it... < 1216841108 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so putting values into large cells will not cause memory issues... < 1216841119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/JM3RtR74.html < 1216841131 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cell array is then organized into rows... < 1216841146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, how do you look up a specific cell? < 1216841149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got some sort of index? < 1216841158 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a row index.... < 1216841170 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like each row is stored togetehr in the array... < 1216841172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is a O(n) operation to search through? < 1216841184 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a search involved.... < 1216841189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you need to insert stuff then? < 1216841212 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you insert, it just adds a cell into the appropriate row.... < 1216841223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said it was stored together < 1216841226 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserting can be slow!!! depending on what the size of the array is and where it is placed... < 1216841229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if it won't fit into that < 1216841235 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expands it... < 1216841244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving all items upwards? < 1216841249 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.... < 1216841253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... intersting < 1216841253 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can be quite slow.... < 1216841262 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really should rewrite that.... < 1216841277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think cfunge's is "reasonable speed in all cases but not extremely fast in any" < 1216841290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's CCBI. ;-) < 1216841291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just uses the first hash library I found out there < 1216841292 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an array that contains row addresses... < 1216841300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, my hash library is slow < 1216841305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is slower. :-P < 1216841308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I profiled cfunge < 1216841309 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then after that appropriate row is found,,,it will move along the row to ge tthe cell... < 1216841323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but I wrote a Befunge93 in bash it was *even* slower < 1216841330 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet!!!! < 1216841344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck it took several minutes to go through the Befunge-93 part of mycology < 1216841345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash slower than C? say it ain't so < 1216841355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, bash slower than D < 1216841356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1216841357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1216841358 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got to run for awhile, be back later < 1216841366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh I'm a bash fan btw < 1216841368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1216841370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrote an irc bot in bash < 1216841373 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too actually!! < 1216841377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://envbot.org) < 1216841384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wrote a brainfuck interpreter in bash < 1216841386 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you later... < 1216841389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, cya < 1216841390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216841522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iterate.c is the file with most "finally made this work" commits to it < 1216841529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be yet another one < 1216841534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the 3k4 one < 1216841546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1216841551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to add an option, probably < 1216841559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think k is somewhat useless like that < 1216841575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sounds like a good idea < 1216841584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait not really useless < 1216841586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so default to the spec, but allow useful behaviour as well :-P < 1216841591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still do 0k3 < 1216841593 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of course not completely < 1216841594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have that work < 1216841596 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2k4 < 1216841603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k4 < 1216841612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you can never get just one iteration? < 1216841616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :-( < 1216841618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems strange < 1216841643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Funge-108 will follow the way you did it Deewiant < 1216841658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be nicer to simplify it from that < 1216841665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, 1k] < 1216841683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will turn 180 degrees... < 1216841696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in r < 1216841700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right? < 1216841701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm talking about the 108 way < 1216841703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI's way < 1216841705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216841706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn 90 degrees at k < 1216841706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216841708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1216841711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1216841717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1216841721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be simpler if you said that after k, the IP always moves < 1216841722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1216841727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k] < 1216841730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1216841731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1216841734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hits the 2 < 1216841744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need special casing for anything < 1216841767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just, do instruction given number of times, and move < 1216841782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1216841809 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1216841816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heck I will need to write at Rationale for that change now :P < 1216841829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1216841864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway what bothers me now is that I can't figure out where in the Iterate code I take the extra step forward < 1216841865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216841871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1216841881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you seen my iterate code? < 1216841898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, haven't looked at cfunge's source pretty much at all < 1216841902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not it is at http://rafb.net/p/Rs018T84.html < 1216841945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a small indention error at the end though < 1216841952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore it as I fixed that locally now < 1216841962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your lines are too long :-P < 1216841977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well apart from that? < 1216841982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't find it? it's at the end, no? < 1216841990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1216841991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it's pretty much copied from CCBI :-P < 1216841999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ip->position = posinstr; < 1216842006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I did copy some stuff from ccbi on this < 1216842013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it was bloody hard to get right < 1216842016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1216842038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I done similar in some fingerprints, TURT for example < 1216842047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I don't think FPDP is based on your at all < 1216842049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I know < 1216842086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nor is my fingerprint manager code based on your code at all < 1216842132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because your is so D specific) < 1216842147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1216842166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all that mixin! stuff < 1216842168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1216842177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do the same with #define < 1216842184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing too fancy there, I don't think < 1216842199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. nothing you couldn't do with #define :-) < 1216842200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you can check the way I do it < 1216842205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally different < 1216842206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be bothered, whatever < 1216842239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I got a script that looks as some "fingerprint spec files" that contains details of what instructions they implement, if they are safe or not and so on < 1216842249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it generates an array from it < 1216842255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216842257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I later can do a binary search in < 1216842263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the fingerprint < 1216842267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do something similar, but with templates and string mixins ;-) < 1216842273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no need to run a script < 1216842277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I do it with a bash script < 1216842278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216842287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not a binary search < 1216842294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just do a simplified search < 1216842320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returning false if I reach an index that is higher than the wanted one < 1216842326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not index < 1216842332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but entry < 1216842365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // ORTH - Orthogonal Easement Library < 1216842365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { .fprint = 0x4f525448, .uri = NULL, .loader = &FingerORTHload, .opcodes = "AEGOPSVWXYZ", < 1216842365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .url = "http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/ORTH.html", .safe = true }, < 1216842365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // PERL - Generic Interface to the Perl Language < 1216842365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { .fprint = 0x5045524c, .uri = NULL, .loader = &FingerPERLload, .opcodes = "EIS", < 1216842366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .url = "http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/PERL.html", .safe = false }, < 1216842369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it looks like that ^ < 1216842433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then it calls the .loader function pointer < 1216842442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which registers the functions < 1216842455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ManagerAddOpcode(fprint, opcode, name) \ < 1216842456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!OpcodeStackAdd(ip, (opcode), &Finger ## fprint ## name)) \ < 1216842456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return false; < 1216842472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then for example: ManagerAddOpcode(FIXP, 'U', atan) < 1216842490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally we got: static void FingerFIXPatan(instructionPointer * ip) < 1216842553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, any questions? < 1216842578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really not that interested TBH :-) whatever works for you < 1216842596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well my solution is rather simple really :) < 1216842610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks more complex than mine < 1216842612 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1216842616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also I can generate templates for the fingerprint *.c files < 1216842620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the same spec files < 1216842621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1216843352 0 :lilja!n=idler@62.106.5.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216843409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"k executes the instruction at k itself, then it move ip forward one step (with respect to current delta)." < 1216843412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does that sound good ^ < 1216843414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 108 < 1216843429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/move/moves/ < 1216843433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216843450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd clarify what "the instruction at k itself" means < 1216843477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The k ``Iterate'' instruction pops a value n off the stack. < 1216843477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it finds the next instruction in Funge-space in the path of the IP (note that this cannot be a marker such as space or ;), treats it as an instruction (with the exceptions below), executing it n times. < 1216843479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say "executes the instruction without moving away from the k" or something < 1216843482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the two lines before < 1216843483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1216843487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1216843497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have a 1k[ or something < 1216843499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what if the instruction is some "jump" instruction, say, from SUBR? < 1216843501 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example < 1216843505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you move away from k < 1216843516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, doesn't matter. < 1216843518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no special cases. < 1216843522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute and move. < 1216843526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1216843539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, exception: spaces and ;; < 1216843544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should reach past the spaces < 1216843555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any ;...; < 1216843562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3k ; ; ;; ; f < 1216843564 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1216843565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not a special case if you implement it right < 1216843568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That code would execute f three times, after wrapping once." < 1216843583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is what C. Pressy wanted < 1216843590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did forward the mail didn't I? < 1216843592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pastebin it < 1216843599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think I pastebinned it < 1216843599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1216843603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whatever < 1216843608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did mention it though < 1216843610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I can forward it < 1216843621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is your gpg key? < 1216843625 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, like said, that's fine and not a special case < 1216843629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at my homepage < 1216843633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah ok < 1216843653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://iki.fi/deewiant/files/misc/public.key < 1216843655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the FRA law made me paranoid < 1216843658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you seen it < 1216843659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :-) < 1216843663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, at some key server? < 1216843667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216843670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm ok < 1216843671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too paranoid ;-) < 1216843678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harhar < 1216843684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an invitation for the NSA to crack it < 1216843715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpg: key B7E8FA08: public key "Matti Niemenmaa " imported < 1216843715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpg: key DEDF0F79: public key "Matti Niemenmaa " imported < 1216843717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two? < 1216843727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1216843729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one should be expired < 1216843733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I botched the export < 1216843735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1216843753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the iki one should be recent < 1216843777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the fingerprint? < 1216843781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, B7... is revoked < 1216843791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it "4517 8F90 84CF C529 7382 2B84 B9D3 F95E DEDF 0F79"? < 1216843804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216843813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good :) < 1216843887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers are scary people. all fixated on execution. < 1216843954 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1216843966 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you here deewiant?? < 1216843968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uploaded a fixed file which should have only the latter key < 1216843970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1216843979 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember what TRDS is doing with the , and . commands... < 1216843996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should it be in the spec? :-) < 1216844000 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope.... < 1216844007 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, not necessarily... < 1216844007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1216844015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, forwarded < 1216844022 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in reality, and running ip will and should output everytime it encounteres , or . < 1216844052 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is happeining in mine,,,,,when jumping to the past, my interpreter resets the destiantion time state by running from time 0 up to the jump point... < 1216844067 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during this,, no output should be happening,,,since this is not where the ip jumped.... < 1216844067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, right < 1216844068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1216844076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what CCBI does, too < 1216844078 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew there had to be a reason!!! eheheheeheheh < 1216844082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: and yeah, so < 1216844089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you admit that it's a bug that it will rerun i and o, for instance? :-) < 1216844107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or = < 1216844110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or & and ~, which are worse :-P < 1216844116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed they are < 1216844123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to buffer all input then < 1216844126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when you used it < 1216844130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which is crazy.... < 1216844131 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not a bug for i and o,,, < 1216844138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, no? < 1216844160 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,,since depending on 3what you were doing with i and o, you need to replicate what the files were at the time of the destination jump < 1216844173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, that's impossible in the general case. < 1216844178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1216844183 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the general case, that is true... < 1216844188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store the files < 1216844195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in store a copy of them < 1216844197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the files are just streams, frontends to sockets for instance? < 1216844198 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the files were created by the program, then it would be right... < 1216844205 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they would not work... < 1216844214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. output to /dev/tty0 or whatever < 1216844215 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be classified as an implementation problem... < 1216844222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1216844233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it could also be classified as a spec problem < 1216844236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what about input then? < 1216844236 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose if it really mattered, the interpreter needs to be able to replicate what the state of those were... < 1216844238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& and ~ < 1216844240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as Deewiant said < 1216844241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it explicitly says that you can rerun from the start :-) < 1216844253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and what about output and input in fingerprints? < 1216844255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, BASE < 1216844257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1216844282 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if running from point 0 to catch up,,,then in theory the necessary fingerprints would be there at the time of arrival... < 1216844284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: what I'd do if I were you is say that doing input/output in a TRDS program is undefined behaviour ;-) < 1216844284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how does HRTI interact with TRDS btw? < 1216844289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the rerun < 1216844293 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can accept that... < 1216844309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what if the fingerprints give different results next time? < 1216844311 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTRI will be completely UNDEF within TRDS < 1216844311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not by going back in time to see what the timer would have been earlier. ;-P < 1216844312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, say, HRTI < 1216844316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216844355 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that the TRDS module raises lots of questions about some things,,,,,but i guess time travel is quirky that way.... < 1216844357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need that "future past didn't happen" tense that Douglas Adams suggested < 1216844358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216844393 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: but yeah, I'd say that any input is undefined, and outputting to anything except stdout/stderr also is < 1216844399 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, will consider i, o, and = and the input funcitons to be UNDEF... < 1216844413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what about output from BASE and such? < 1216844417 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about output from BASE?? < 1216844420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it's allowed for an interpreter to reprint , and . and so forth < 1216844426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: undefined. < 1216844427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be printed again at next run < 1216844439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or no, what, wait < 1216844441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they go to stdout < 1216844442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so defined. < 1216844444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1216844445 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reprint of , and . is fine,,,,but if you are using the method of starting from 0 and going to the jump point, no output should be generated... < 1216844457 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever tried doing derivations of a formal language by piling on restrictions to, and deriving new constrained rules from, S*? < 1216844458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, indeed < 1216844461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I'd add something about IO in the spec if I were you < 1216844471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, eh? < 1216844471 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree and will do that... < 1216844485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. any file IO or input in general is undefined in an entire TRDS program < 1216844490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1216844496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever jump backwards in time < 1216844498 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i woud say to time jumped ips.... < 1216844499 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, all languages are subsets of the kleene star of the alphabet < 1216844503 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you jump forwards or use the freezer, it's fine, no? < 1216844505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well of course BASE, FPSP/FPDP, and other ones doing output should be fixed < 1216844512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not output up to that point either < 1216844523 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,,since jumping forward does not require any state to be maintained... < 1216844527 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If L is some language over S, then L ⊆ S* < 1216844529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ???????? < 1216844539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1216844544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you lost me < 1216844545 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would output up to a future jump, IF and only if there is another ip running that is still running in normal time < 1216844547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216844554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I'm much more down to earth programmer < 1216844557 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I take it you dont know anything about formal languages? < 1216844564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no I don't < 1216844565 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me make it more familiar to you < 1216844568 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have C, right < 1216844571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216844573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got C < 1216844574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216844585 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C has a bunch of keywords (int, return, if, etc) < 1216844588 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a bunch of symbols < 1216844588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1216844594 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(, {, =, &, etc < 1216844600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, are you writing a lexer? < 1216844617 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also a bunch of things like regexp-defined things like "names" that are used for variables, etc. < 1216844629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's almost the same as saying that any language is a subset of all matches for the regexp .* ... or, really, that a language is a set of strings of an alphabet < 1216844634 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said my name earlier, and I lost what they said in the backbuffer < 1216844635 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: i agree, other output functions need to be fixed to not output when running null time (time between 0 and jump point) < 1216844639 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the "alphabet" of the formal language of C < 1216844654 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re subsets of kleene stars) < 1216844660 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call that set of symbols S < 1216844662 0 :ais523!i=93bc1b6b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bc60a08bfae9960e JOIN :#esoteric < 1216844663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, guess why I decided to not implement TRDS? < 1216844672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're lazy. :-P < 1216844677 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S* is just the kleene star over that < 1216844680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, right < 1216844684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: becuase he's sane? < 1216844684 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not blame you,,,,that module is terribly convoluted to implement < 1216844686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, sounds like you are writing a lexer < 1216844688 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a string contraining any number of those symbols < 1216844691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1216844698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, but wtf is a "kleene star"? < 1216844699 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IF * RETURN > > || ( < 1216844703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, he's lazy. :-) < 1216844708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1216844711 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kleene star is just like the regex * < 1216844714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1216844718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the other one! < 1216844719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and hi tusho too < 1216844723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh kleene star. i was reading it as kleisli star and thought you were doing something _really_ weird. < 1216844726 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING HELL < 1216844726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Mibbit so had to scroll down to see who was online < 1216844727 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any number of the items in the set strung together < 1216844733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got me ais523 < 1216844737 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok anmaster? < 1216844738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, hm ok < 1216844752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why have you been away so long? < 1216844753 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so IF * RETURN > > || ( is in S* < 1216844764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, um a sec, too many convos at the same time < 1216844766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me read up < 1216844772 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its any number of symbols in S* put together into a string. < 1216844789 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wait) < 1216844796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sleep pattern out of sync, meaning I've been awake overnight and asleep in the daytime, combined with needing to commute to use the Internet, combined with the door to my department breaking so I couldn't get into it except during working hours < 1216844814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oops < 1216844825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hope that is fixed now :) < 1216844831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1216844837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not my usual computer lab, nor my usual computer < 1216844837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that (.*.) = (=<<)? < 1216844841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's open until midnight my time though < 1216844846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if all else fails I can just use this one < 1216844846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I see < 1216844853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: >=> i think < 1216844853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but with your own computer I hope? < 1216844861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully < 1216844862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the new one) < 1216844869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a pain to use a laptop here < 1216844875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is that? < 1216844876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to my usual place < 1216844878 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2003-August/012438.html says something about kleisli stars and >>= < 1216844880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no wlan? < 1216844882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only a few desks to put it on < 1216844887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... < 1216844888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is wlan, pretty good wlan at that < 1216844891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nice < 1216844894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just lack of space to place a laptop < 1216844901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well is it crowded? < 1216844916 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>| < 1216844920 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: >=> seems to be same as the @@ operator in that post < 1216844929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a desktop computer on every desk < 1216844929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you lost me anyway, don't try to bother < 1216844931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1216844939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hard balancing a laptop on top of a desktop and still using it < 1216844946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is sometimes crowded, although not right now < 1216844955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any space just outside it? < 1216844956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1216844958 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd i lose you < 1216844965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wlan isn't restricted by walls < 1216844972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much anyway < 1216844983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's the composition operator of the kleisli category < 1216845000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I know, there is a bit of space near which I use a laptop with on occasion but that's a bit crowded, and there's only a small amount of nearby space which won't get rained on < 1216845011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this lab is so big it takes up two entire floors of a building < 1216845012 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to do a little tutorial on Formal Languages for you kids? :P < 1216845014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh right :/ < 1216845017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have access to the other floors < 1216845022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not? < 1216845026 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who here knows anything about formal languages? < 1216845029 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raise your hands < 1216845030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's used by a department I don't belong to < 1216845036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION raises their hand
< 1216845037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1216845056 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://vjn.cc/x | Should PsygnisFive do a tutorial on Formal Languages? Yes: 0, No: 0 < 1216845066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some major stuff with funge, 1) catseye test suite found, turns out we all got k wrong < 1216845076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION raises his hand
< 1216845077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 2) RC/Funge author found too < 1216845080 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vote! >O < 1216845081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1216845081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MikeRiley in here < 1216845087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he want to fix stuff < 1216845095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in his RC/Funge < 1216845106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is news, it reminds me of when I found that CLC-INTERCAL and J-INTERCAL both existed < 1216845108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 3k4 will push four 4 < 1216845115 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. < 1216845117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd heard of them, of course, but they were both hard to track down at the time < 1216845123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 3k4 == 4444 is obvious < 1216845126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it *doesn't* jump over < 1216845131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1216845132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1) being a consequence of 2) < 1216845133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1216845134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we all thought it did < 1216845136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread < 1216845145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what Deewiant said < 1216845150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not jumping is one of the semantics I suggested for 'fixing' it a while ago < 1216845160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that breaks stuff though < 1216845164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that then there's no way to iterate only once < 1216845165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it was fixed in the first place... < 1216845167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as 0k will do 0 iterations < 1216845167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were, I'd be fine with it < 1216845177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: #k4 < 1216845184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that cheating? < 1216845187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216845193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the idea is you'd have a variable < 1216845195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cheating.. < 1216845199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you'd have to check whether it's 1 < 1216845211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1216845222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should use a non-k-based loop, then < 1216845224 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that the inability to iterate only once is a problem,,,, < 1216845231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you already need to check what the variable is < 1216845234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggested to AnMaster that the way to go is to have it always move < 1216845237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reflect on negative values and so on < 1216845237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that 0k == z#? < 1216845255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and that is what I selected for Funge108 < 1216845259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the spec is quite explicit about that. unless it was meant that 0k == z in which case it's just pointless. < 1216845275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what does 1k^ do with the newly-discovered spec? < 1216845278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 4k[? < 1216845287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 22kk4? < 1216845290 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k^ should go up from the k.... < 1216845291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1k^ is the same as 2k^ is the same as 99**k^ < 1216845291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1k[ turns 180 degrees < 1216845296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH NOT THE DOUBLE k! < 1216845300 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4k[ will end up turning left... < 1216845300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE THAT ONE < 1216845303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, double k < 1216845306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: considered that? < 1216845322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: did you read the end of my mail yet, by the way? < 1216845326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 4k# < 1216845327 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one?? < 1216845327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I forwarded that little spiel on k < 1216845332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end < 1216845337 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4k# is a bit harder to define... < 1216845343 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes...i did get that... < 1216845349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that will jump forward 5 times from k I think < 1216845355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do you think about the double k thing < 1216845358 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what i would expect.... < 1216845360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how can it? < 1216845363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't < 1216845364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 times < 1216845367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh wait it won't < 1216845370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it jumps forward 4, and then doesn't move forwards so hits the original #? < 1216845372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make sense < 1216845379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it jumps forward 4, and then moves < 1216845380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sorry typo < 1216845382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1216845383 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had 4k#12345 the next instruction should be the 4.... < 1216845386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1216845390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will be 5 anyway < 1216845392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1216845408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what if you got 22k4 < 1216845410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I agree, I think < 1216845415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's equivalent to 5k# under what CCBI currently does, yes < 1216845416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216845419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22kk4 < 1216845421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that < 1216845427 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22k4 will give you 3 4s on the stack... < 1216845434 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a 2 below it... < 1216845436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, see what I said < 1216845438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1216845442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant 22kk4 < 1216845453 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22kk4 hurts my head!!! eheheheheheeh < 1216845461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hurts everyone's head, I think < 1216845461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it does indeed < 1216845474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest assured that Funge-108 defines it: < 1216845481 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would think that 2k4 would be executed twice... < 1216845486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the time they found a paradox in the Magic: The Gathering rules < 1216845486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :• k on a nested k (as in 22kk4) is implementation defined. The implementation may do either of these: < 1216845487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– The interpreter MAY reflect. < 1216845487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :– Or it MAY implement it as k executing k two times. The second k would then pop a new iteration count every time. This means that the second time the nested k executes, it will execute 4 times (as the previous time the nested k executed it pushed 4). < 1216845489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, ^ < 1216845493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and took huge pains trying to sort it out < 1216845499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: may reflect? O_O < 1216845503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes < 1216845503 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of that crap < 1216845506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one famous player even suggested that the game should be a draw if the situation came up < 1216845509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ccbi does that already < 1216845525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's that? < 1216845536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so how do you explain that you don't want reflection < 1216845543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a sane behaviour then.... < 1216845549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CCBI doesn't reflect on nested k... < 1216845557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Opalescence makes all enchantments into creatures, Humility prevents creatures having any effect < 1216845561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what does CCBI do then? < 1216845565 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would not think that reflection on nested k would be right... < 1216845568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore if they're both out at once, you get a paradox < 1216845582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something like the latter, not sure exactly < 1216845593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the naive implementation of k would do this: < 1216845599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) fetch next instruction k < 1216845605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) execute it at the first k < 1216845618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, nice < 1216845619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) this execution will now fetch the next instruction, which will be k < 1216845622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) ARGH! < 1216845627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1216845630 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that seems reasonable.... < 1216845631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARGH"? < 1216845641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pop two 2s < 1216845643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack is [2,2] < 1216845644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit k < 1216845649 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the k calls for finding the next instruction in the path of the ip < 1216845650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute the next k < 1216845670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next k pops the 2, so it pushes two 4s < 1216845673 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next k, still with the ip on the first k,,,would end up find the k again... < 1216845675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as the second k executes *at* the first k... it will fetch the next instruction from current position < 1216845678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is k < 1216845681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see what I mean? < 1216845695 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that idea,,,,nested k cannot really do much... < 1216845696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k is really the only *multichar* instruction in befunge < 1216845700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it insane < 1216845709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of is multichar < 1216845713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you think about it < 1216845721 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is and it is not... < 1216845734 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in that it uses the next character to define what it will do... < 1216845736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ' < 1216845738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll terminate anyway though, since it'll pop zero at some point < 1216845740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the *sane* way would be to take the instruction to execute on the stack < 1216845742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arguably # < 1216845743 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still is a single command... < 1216845751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true but that doesn't cause those issues < 1216845762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes... < 1216845775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so please suggest a sane way to solve nested k < 1216845777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about: < 1216845778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, what does 3k'abc do? < 1216845783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :333333kkk# < 1216845790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what the heck that should do < 1216845800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1216845807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: k doesn't say it finds the instruction from where it's executed < 1216845813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k says it finds the next instruction from where the k is < 1216845828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an inner k should find the following instruction, not itself < 1216845829 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct,,,,and it does not specify that the ip moves when the found instruction is executed < 1216845830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm true < 1216845847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it should execute all at the first k? < 1216845848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1216845858 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it should execute at the first k... < 1216845862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, it doesn't say that it executes instructions where it is executed < 1216845869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it executes instructions at where it is. :-) < 1216845875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1216845882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have fun implementing that ^_^ < 1216845882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will make iterate.c a lot more complex < 1216845912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does 1k^ go upwards from the k? < 1216845922 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say that it goes upwards from the k < 1216845931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but 1k] will turn 180 degrees < 1216845938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway 2k^ will also go up < 1216845939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by what the spec says, the interpreters do, or what 108 says? :-) < 1216845945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 possibilities here, at least. :-P < 1216845947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not so sure < 1216845948 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no 1k] will not turn 180 degrees < 1216845951 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will turn 90 < 1216845964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1216845965 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go down from the k at the conculsion < 1216845967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's an argument to be made that 2#^k< goes upwards from the k < 1216845977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the k executes the < then the ^ < 1216845978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1216845982 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216845982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the command it's "looking at" changes < 1216845989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the direction of processing changes < 1216845992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1216845993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^>++++++++++<-]>[>++++++++++<-]>[>++++++++++<-]>[>++++++++++<-]>[>++++++++++<-]>[.-] < 1216853024 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very golfable, I'm sure. < 1216853050 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, have anybody seen something like this '5vR@5|(1+3@+5@|(Ym@'? < 1216853095 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1216853103 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where did you find that? < 1216853161 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is like a game, I am given this phrase and i need to find out answer. I think that it can be some of esoteric languages script. < 1216853218 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds more like recreational codebreaking than esoteric programming. Perhaps ##crypto would have something to offer, though I think they're really more about actual cryptology. < 1216853338 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that string doesn't resemble any language I'm aware of < 1216853462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be neat if that was a language < 1216853463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nahhh < 1216853464 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it < 1216853504 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've checked all wiki languages, where was some like it, but noting equal. < 1216853541 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first instincts were 1337 and toadskin, but it doesn't look valid for either < 1216853630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juokaz: what is the situation? < 1216853634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe context will help < 1216853666 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216853690 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no context :( I have this string, and no clues. It's like a game, like I said < 1216853764 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell us more about how you got it? < 1216853767 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juokaz: what, did you just find the string on your HD < 1216853771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's obviously some context to getting it < 1216853782 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context can lead us in the right direction < 1216853822 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let's hope it's a program, because a non-trivially encrypted string of that length is probably unbreakable < 1216853838 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus there isn't the right symbol distribution < 1216853840 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Context is web based game (not in eglish). There is a question named "Just", with that string as text. There is nothing else. < 1216853860 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1216853958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like it would require some cryptanalysis. < 1216853960 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some sort of high-level BF? < 1216853974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: :D < 1216853988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which of several would you like? < 1216853990 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my thoughts exactly, but as I said there isn't much to work with < 1216854012 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. with something that converts ints to that number of +'s, negative ints to that number of -'s, etc? < 1216854013 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1216854033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's all? < 1216854045 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well its just a start :p < 1216854046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, PEBBLe is overkill for that. < 1216854048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juokaz: link to the page? < 1216854050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you find the page? < 1216854065 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kinds are there? < 1216854077 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juokaz: try some shift, vigenere and substitution cypher breaking tools < 1216854102 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work from the assumption that instead of wrapping in the alphabet you're wrapping in ASCII < 1216854113 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also context ;) < 1216854128 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just try a 1-25 letter shift and see if anything comes out looking sane < 1216854158 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a few tools along these lines, but they're in C so I hate modifying them < 1216854205 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :information theory tells me that if it's a program it generates very little output. Thus, for any reasonably sized clue it's probably encryption < 1216854239 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: i bet it's compressed < 1216854245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it < 1216854262 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: PEBBLe is a very powerful macro system for BF that pikhq developed < 1216854268 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1216854273 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF macros < 1216854275 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1216854275 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1216854337 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: as I said, information theory suggests that a program like that can only produce output containing a small amount of information. This is true regardless of wether it's compressed. < 1216854352 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: mm, but if it's just encrypted, it's damn short < 1216854361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216854361 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216854361 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216854361 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216854361 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1216854371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i bet it's some kind of combination of encryption and compression < 1216854371 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1216854371 0 :lifthras1ir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1216854371 0 :shachaf!n=shachaf@66.17.178.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216854371 0 :lilja!n=idler@62.106.5.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216854371 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1216854376 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1216854385 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and netsplits < 1216854387 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1216854405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/PEBBLe/PEBBLE/... < 1216854429 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just spelled it like you did because I never knew what the aconym meant. < 1216854438 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: show me pebble < 1216854439 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1216854446 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikhq's Esoteric Brainfuck Bastard Language? < 1216854447 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: portable esoteric brainfuck based language, eh? < 1216854454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sad that i know that :) < 1216854463 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was fairly close < 1216854465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it has tcl's syntax < 1216854473 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see how it works < 1216854476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically consists of macros + a stdlib of them < 1216854482 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, like, a few primitives for outputting brainfuck code < 1216854571 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1216854572 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I remember the first assignment in my cryptography class. My teacher had explained a few basic cyphers, but no cryptanalysis stuff. He hands us all a sheet with alphanumeric gibberish and told us "decrypt that. It's due tomorrow" < 1216854584 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple was developing a professional version of apple script < 1216854595 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that instead of writing this: < 1216854603 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the first character of every word whose style is bold" < 1216854605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: saw that on daring fireball < 1216854605 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the most fun I think I've ever had in a math course, hacking into the wee hours of the night until I started unravelling it < 1216854607 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write this: < 1216854610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ words | bold }.character[1] < 1216854613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1216854616 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an == in there somewhere < 1216854616 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"{ words | style == bold }.character[1]" < 1216854618 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216854625 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i find most interesting about this < 1216854629 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1216854634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: is the lack of explicit binding? < 1216854639 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause I think that's pretty neat too < 1216854639 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1216854646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i'm considering implementing a lang with that syntax < 1216854655 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that you're doing a dot-property access on a group of things, where the dot is really applicable to members of the group < 1216854663 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1216854666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like an array programming language < 1216854669 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit maps < 1216854693 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it only makes sense for simple collections, that are not objects < 1216854710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: array programming languages apply it to everything < 1216854715 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, obviously if sets were objects and had properties of their own, you'd be kind of messed up < 1216854721 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does .character apply to the set, or the members? < 1216854722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1216854724 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its cool < 1216854729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I think apl has a sort of syntax for working that out < 1216854742 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes... the first one started off "GENTLEMENDONOTREADEACHOTHERSMAIL..." < 1216854743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, either set..length for the set's length or set..character[1] < 1216854752 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatevr :) < 1216854780 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is so painful to read < 1216854802 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah apl&k&j take it a little too far. < 1216854820 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apl might as well be considered an esolang that went mainstream < 1216854842 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, seriously: < 1216854843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apl never really was THAT mainstream < 1216854843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X[⍋X+.≠' ';] < 1216854846 0 :juokaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1216854858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⍋ christmas tree < 1216854883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1216854885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzle guy is gone < 1216854892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i can see standard stuff like set notation junk < 1216854893 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1216854899 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of it tho? < 1216855062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/pebble.php < 1216855102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want some examples aside from the stdlib, I've got a few. . . < 1216855126 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna see a spec :( < 1216855136 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the tarball. < 1216855141 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :D < 1216855154 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i think thats something that obviously should be in my quantifier language < 1216855163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has documentation on the stdlib. < 1216855194 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(each Set).to_string < 1216855196 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1216855212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: { numbers | odd }.sum < 1216855216 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1216855219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for the mapping thing < 1216855224 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that doesnt make sense < 1216855224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ words | style == bold }:characters[1] < 1216855228 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ':' is magical < 1216855236 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that clearly means sum over the set not the members < 1216855243 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1216855245 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1216855248 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the : is what specifies 'over members' < 1216855250 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1216855263 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in my quantifier language im going to handle it differently < 1216855269 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using quantifiers. < 1216855277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1216855278 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1216855287 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like this, we need to think of more interesting things to do < 1216855298 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows:show < 1216855308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is just going to spurt out random code samples until the language forms in his head
< 1216855314 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1216855355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact psygnisfive < 1216855357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could just do < 1216855363 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sum { numbers | odd } < 1216855364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1216855368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ numers | odd }.succ < 1216855377 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleaner-looking < 1216855381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is just going to shove PEBBLE down psygnisfive's throat
< 1216855384 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer .: < 1216855395 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: mm, i think mine could have merits though < 1216855396 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see < 1216855402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish that paper had more examples of it < 1216855403 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i like methods < 1216855445 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methods are sort of like monads < 1216855449 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1216855451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dot is. < 1216855465 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dot is like haskell's >>= < 1216855469 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object orientation is reverse CPS < 1216855478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it < 1216855484 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i rather like . thinking < 1216855491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do this then do this to that then do this to that < 1216855493 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1216855496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1216855500 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading nested stuff is a bitch < 1216855510 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mostly-stream workflow is far easier to grasp < 1216855538 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a language thats like haskell in its function application syntax, only in reverse < 1216855544 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. x f instead of f x < 1216855549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: concatenative < 1216855549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1216855553 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but < 1216855556 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you mean < 1216855561 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then any function call can look like a method call < 1216855561 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spurted some examples of it in #haskell < 1216855562 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want < 1216855563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn sout it kinda sucks. < 1216855571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: < 1216855574 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a . b = b a < 1216855574 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could go back and forth at will with some notation < 1216855581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff.map(succ).first < 1216855586 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fear the evil < 1216855622 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe : could be that syntax to counterpoint . < 1216855641 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5:succ:abs == abs (succ 5) < 1216855655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i thought of a good alt. to : < 1216855655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1216855658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it digs in < 1216855661 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1216855664 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ words | style == bold }->character[1] < 1216855666 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very perl/php < 1216855666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the metaphor>? < 1216855671 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: very C, actually < 1216855682 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the point is that it's quite clear what it does once you've had it explained < 1216855686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the visual meatphor is strong < 1216855687 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, but perl and php use it exclusively for method access < 1216855697 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blahblahblah->to_string() < 1216855702 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, whatever they wanna do :P < 1216855706 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ive always hated it < 1216855710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but c has it, and i think it's a good visual metaphor -for this use- < 1216855718 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1216855727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ { words | bold } italic } <-- don't like this < 1216855729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about < 1216855733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words.{ bold } < 1216855750 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words.{bold}.{italic}->character[1] < 1216855772 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see what the first would mean < 1216855776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1216855781 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{ words | bold } italic ] < 1216855782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{words|bold}|italic} < 1216855782 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1216855787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot a | < 1216855793 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still doesnt make much sense i dont think < 1216855798 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: { set | condition } < 1216855803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filter set by condition < 1216855806 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ words | bold } = bold words < 1216855810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ foo | italic } = italic foos < 1216855811 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, i guess. < 1216855817 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ { words | bold } | italic } = bold italic words < 1216855824 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do < 1216855826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you can do bold && italic < 1216855827 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what the heck < 1216855829 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ words | bold and italic } < 1216855843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i have to make dinner < 1216855844 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1216855845 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1216855845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words.filter{ bold && italic }->character[1] < 1216855846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::PP < 1216855848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1216855849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1216855850 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1216856060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“ < 1216856062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :” < 1216857213 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye? < 1216857235 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye, psygnisfive.