←2008-07-23 2008-07-24 2008-07-25→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:12:10 <psygnisfive> back desu yo
00:13:08 <psygnisfive> someone should make a programming language that weeaboos could use
00:13:16 <psygnisfive> every statement has to end in "desu yo"
00:13:34 <psygnisfive> even better if it has to be in hiragana
00:14:32 <psygnisfive> x = 2 + 2 ですよ。
00:16:32 <psygnisfive> using a function as a predict necessarily requires the syntax <item> が <function> ですか。
00:17:11 <psygnisfive> foo = bar が quux ですか。
00:17:40 <psygnisfive> i think it'll catch on
00:24:07 <psygnisfive> oh, no no
00:24:13 <psygnisfive> instead of x = 2 + 2 desu yo.
00:24:15 <psygnisfive> it has to be
00:24:20 <psygnisfive> x wa 2 + 2 desu yo
00:24:50 <psygnisfive> abd foo wa bar ga quux desu ka
00:24:56 <psygnisfive> or something like that
00:25:27 <psygnisfive> foo wa bar ga quux da ka n' desu yo
00:27:28 <tusho> isn't japanese stack-based?
00:27:29 <tusho> or whatever
00:28:10 <RodgerTheGreat> most languages (the ones with parentheses at least (that I'm aware of)) are stack-based
00:28:11 <psygnisfive> no
00:28:20 <psygnisfive> but it is head-final
00:28:21 <psygnisfive> maybe
00:28:21 <RodgerTheGreat> in a very vague sense
00:29:05 <psygnisfive> i mean, most formal models of japanese syntax make it almost completely, if not entirely, head final
00:29:30 <psygnisfive> but i wouldnt say that head-final-ness = stack-based
00:30:17 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: you could have been more subtl
00:30:17 <tusho> e
00:30:18 <tusho> ;)
00:30:50 * RodgerTheGreat shrugs
00:32:40 <psygnisfive> tusho, why do you ask about japanese being stack-based?
00:32:53 <tusho> psygnisfive: just that it wouldn't be very hard to make it into a programming language
00:32:54 <tusho> I guess
00:32:59 <tusho> i mean
00:33:01 <tusho> it would, obviously
00:33:03 <tusho> but. I dunno
00:33:11 <psygnisfive> heh. it would it more ways than you know :)
00:33:35 <tusho> yeah I figured that like 0.1 seconds after saying it
00:34:00 <psygnisfive> tho it would be easier than english i guess
00:38:48 <psygnisfive> in japanese, conditionals can be done with conjugations on verbs or similar
00:38:50 <psygnisfive> looking like
00:39:00 <psygnisfive> <condition> tara <result>
00:39:21 <psygnisfive> or nara
00:39:29 <psygnisfive> we could use nara.
00:39:41 <psygnisfive> blah blah blah nara blah blah blah.
00:39:54 <psygnisfive> or as the japanese would say...
00:39:59 <psygnisfive> nani nnani nara nani nani
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01:40:40 <lilja> hrrr
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04:25:00 <ihope> Hmm, who was it who had us all talking about sex in here?
04:25:43 <ihope> Was it you, psygnisfive? I have no idea, really, apart from that it wasn't someone I recognize easily, and their nick was a bit longer than mine.
04:25:44 <RodgerTheGreat> ihope: I'm going to go with "any female" for the $500, regis
04:26:00 <psygnisfive> ive always got you talking about sex
04:27:21 <ihope> Yep, it was you.
04:27:31 <ihope> Turns out that wasn't a sexual desire at all. Sorry.
04:28:02 <psygnisfive> ihope, how old are you?
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04:29:03 <ihope> Now is not the time to tell you that. :-P
04:29:44 <ihope> Older than ehird, who I imagine will have his oldth birthday this year, or maybe next.
04:29:59 <psygnisfive> every year everyone has their oldth birthday.
04:31:01 <ihope> Actually, old = 13.
04:31:19 <psygnisfive> well in that case yes, this is true about tusho.
04:31:56 <ihope> Though then you're only mostly old, until you turn 18, in which case you're completely old, and then you turn 70 and become thoroughly old.
04:32:06 <ihope> s/in which case/at which time/
04:32:20 <psygnisfive> lol
04:32:23 <psygnisfive> 18-70
04:32:25 <psygnisfive> thats a big gap
04:32:26 <psygnisfive> lol
04:32:47 <psygnisfive> how old are you ihope
04:32:49 <psygnisfive> tell me.
04:32:49 <ihope> Nothing happens in that gap, apart from the Shive Transition, which happens at 25, and has the effect of allowing you to rent a car.
04:32:58 <ihope> Mostly old.
04:33:10 <psygnisfive> so you're under 18?
04:33:14 <ihope> Yep.
04:33:17 <psygnisfive> damnit, theres goes any hope of sexing you.
04:33:23 <psygnisfive> guess rape'll have to to. ::rape::
04:33:36 <ihope> Oh, by no means! Unless you're male or something.
04:33:45 <psygnisfive> oh i am. :p
04:35:17 <psygnisfive> ::pet:: dont worry, it only hurts the first few times ;O
04:35:49 <psygnisfive> oh, speaking of rape, i have 29 books on theory of computation. do you want?
04:36:04 <ihope> If you can send them to me, yes.
04:36:22 <psygnisfive> http://www.wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Theory%20of%20Computation.zip
04:36:31 <ihope> Is that 29 books?
04:36:45 <psygnisfive> yep
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05:16:47 <CakeProphet> awwww yeah
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05:27:05 <psygnisfive> sup cakeprophet
05:27:51 <CakeProphet> word
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11:51:48 <AnMaster> hi tusho
11:51:55 <tusho> hello
11:52:09 <AnMaster> bbiab
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15:10:41 <AnMaster> does anyone know if there is some C escape sequence for "Form Feed", like \n for Line Feed and \r for Carriage Return?
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15:12:30 <SimonRC> AnMaster: yes, \f
15:12:35 <AnMaster> thanks
15:14:24 <SimonRC> Next time try the first link Google gives
15:14:38 <SimonRC> http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/languages/c/cref-mleslie/FUNCTIONS/escape.html
15:16:18 <AnMaster> btw anyone know what the form feed was actually used for?
15:16:34 <AnMaster> I mean, it is one of those control chars like vertical tab that simply isn't used today
15:24:44 <tusho> emacs source has vertical tabs
15:24:47 <tusho> so do rfc'
15:24:48 <tusho> s
15:24:52 <tusho> *rfcs
15:28:08 <AnMaster> tusho, sure it isn't formfeeds?
15:29:11 <pikhq> I'm well aware of Emacs' usage of form feeds to seperate chunks of code into logical pages. . .
15:29:36 <pikhq> (Emacs, of course, supports the use of this convention)
15:30:22 <tusho> AnMaster: Yes.
15:30:31 * tusho shrugs
15:31:13 <AnMaster> and trefunge uses it
15:31:18 <AnMaster> formfeeds I mean
15:34:29 <pikhq> Hmm.
15:35:02 <pikhq> For my first programming assignment in college, should I use digraphs just to give the grader a headache? :p
15:35:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, you mean trigraphs or?
15:35:28 <AnMaster> I never heard of digraphs
15:35:39 <pikhq> An amendment to the C standard in '94 added digraphs.
15:35:48 <pikhq> An example:
15:36:02 <AnMaster> does gcc support it without the -trigraphs switch?
15:36:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, also what about the bison code?
15:36:16 <AnMaster> did you get anywhere with it?
15:37:03 <pikhq> %:include <stdio.h>
15:37:06 <pikhq> int main()<%char foo<::> = "Hello, world!\n";printf(foo);%>
15:37:13 <pikhq> Didn't get anywhere with it.
15:37:25 <AnMaster> pikhq, but at least you pastebinned it somewhere?
15:37:34 <pikhq> Fuck.
15:37:39 <AnMaster> I guess no
15:37:48 <AnMaster> or what?
15:37:50 <pikhq> I make no guarantees about such things happening when it's not the weekend.
15:37:58 <AnMaster> pikhq, ah right
15:38:00 <AnMaster> sorry
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15:57:54 <tusho> pikhq: what is <::>
15:58:17 <pikhq> []
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16:08:31 <SimonRC> tusho: that bit was evidentally invented by someone who didn't like lexer-writers
16:08:49 <tusho> hee
16:09:24 <pikhq> And by someone who liked obfuscated C.
16:13:12 <SimonRC> can you mix mono-, di-, and tri-graphs?
16:14:13 <pikhq> Yes.
16:14:30 <pikhq> You want even more insanity?
16:14:39 <pikhq> Digraphs, like monographs, are considered tokens.
16:14:40 <tusho> monographs?
16:14:44 <pikhq> Trigraphs are preprocessed.
16:14:48 <pikhq> tusho: The ordinary characters.
16:14:58 <tusho> a
16:19:14 <AnMaster> In format English, if I want to put a footnote after a sentence, should the number be after or before the period?
16:20:14 <pikhq> I suggest 'whatever LaTeX does'.
16:20:39 <AnMaster> pikhq, it depends on where you put the footnote symbol iirc
16:20:56 <pikhq> Bleck.
16:21:01 <pikhq> Well, I firmly don't know.
16:21:10 <AnMaster> anyone else?
16:26:28 <SimonRC> well, you could just do the logical thing
16:26:43 <SimonRC> if it refers to the whole sentance, put it outside
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17:03:51 <SimonRC> pikhq: that obfuscated bubble sort has some nasty undefined constructs in it
17:04:05 <pikhq> SimonRC: It assumes GNU C, obviously.
17:04:20 <SimonRC> more than that too
17:04:20 <pikhq> What other undefined constructs do you refer to, though?
17:04:30 <SimonRC> it uses and increments a variable in one expression
17:05:00 <SimonRC> "putchar(b[1[i]]) + b++;"
17:05:34 <pikhq> Ah yes.
17:05:53 <pikhq> I'm evil.
17:05:55 <SimonRC> you do the same thing elsewhere
17:06:06 <pikhq> I think that's well-defined in GNU C, however.
17:06:14 <SimonRC> pikhq: and non-pedantic compilers can make your code break
17:06:42 <pikhq> Non-GCC compilers choke on it already.
17:06:48 <tusho> AnMaster: simple
17:06:52 <tusho> if it's a footnote about the whole sentence
17:06:53 <pikhq> Expression statements are a GCC-only feature.
17:06:53 <tusho> after the .
17:06:58 <tusho> if it's about the last part of the sentence
17:06:59 <tusho> before
17:07:11 <AnMaster> tusho, thanks
17:07:16 <SimonRC> the first code block is gratuitous; you can use comma-expressions
17:07:18 <tusho> This was covered in J's sucky article[1].
17:07:18 <tusho> [1]: http://j.com/sucky
17:07:35 <tusho> On another note, I hate J.[1]
17:07:35 <tusho> [1]: http://cool.com/why_i_hate_j
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17:07:47 <AnMaster> pikhq, what bubble sort?
17:07:49 <SimonRC> tusho: looks like how I'd do it
17:07:53 <Tritonio__> hello
17:08:15 <tusho> SimonRC: I also follow Djikstra's parenthesis stuff, mostly
17:08:30 <AnMaster> pikhq, got a link to your implementation that you were discussing?
17:08:32 <SimonRC> tusho: where is that?
17:08:34 <AnMaster> or does SimonRC have a link?
17:08:38 <tusho> Foo. (If a whole sentence is a parenthesized note, the period goes within the parens.) Bar.
17:08:45 <tusho> and starts with a caps
17:08:51 <pikhq> http://pikhq.nonlogic.org/bubble.c
17:08:56 <SimonRC> tusho: well duh; that's obviously the correct way to do it
17:09:00 <tusho> SimonRC: no
17:09:03 <tusho> i was buyy typing
17:09:05 <tusho> that was just the first part
17:09:12 <tusho> anyway, I now realise I don't quite follow djik's conventions
17:09:13 <tusho> I do this
17:09:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh god
17:09:18 <tusho> Foo (if, however, it's within a sentence, start with a lowercase letter and end it outside).
17:09:18 <SimonRC> (the "well duh" was partly ironic, BTW)
17:09:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, golfing?
17:09:21 <tusho> as for quoting
17:09:29 <tusho> "If a whole sentence is a quote, within."
17:09:35 <SimonRC> tusho: yep, that's how I do it too
17:09:37 <tusho> If, however, I am just quoting "you suck", outsid.
17:09:38 <tusho> e
17:09:41 <pikhq> No; my golfed version uses the preprocessor, and counts as a one-liner. :p
17:09:42 <tusho> (that is non-standard)
17:09:50 <tusho> standard is putting the comma in the quote
17:09:52 <tusho> which is braindead
17:09:58 <pikhq> (don't have it handy; it's on frodo, which I won't have access to for a couple more weeks yet)
17:10:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, hah, well afk for a bit, food
17:10:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, tell me how it works though when I get back
17:10:15 <SimonRC> pikhq: I suspect that the other two code blocks could be removed too if you turned the whole program into a state machine.
17:10:26 <pikhq> It's just bubble sort.
17:10:31 <pikhq> SimonRC: Meh; too much effort.
17:10:38 <pikhq> :p
17:10:41 <SimonRC> (for fun, do it with recursion on main and ?: as the only control structures)
17:10:59 <tusho> QUESCOL</obscure>
17:11:10 <tusho> (reference to http://rghosh.free.fr/essays/quescol.html, some idiot's article)
17:11:16 <tusho> (he advocates writing JS with mainly recursion and ?:)
17:11:33 <tusho> skip to /* parse a CSV line recusively, in quescol style */
17:11:34 <tusho> and laugh
17:11:42 <tusho> also note JS' lack of tail recursion
17:12:06 <SimonRC> tusho: ouch
17:12:18 <SimonRC> otherwise, that would be a nice functional style
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17:12:27 <tusho> SimonRC: apart from the syntax
17:12:33 <tusho> so, apart from the whole point of it, it's nice ;)
17:12:43 <tusho> also the fact that its totally non-idiomatic
17:12:50 <tusho> so you're basically making it hell for anyone else to read or modify it
17:12:54 * SimonRC reads it...
17:13:42 <SimonRC> my quoting style would put the punctuation in the quoted text if it was part of the quoted text. Note that I would distinguish quoting the whole contents of a sentance and quoting the whole sentance.
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17:18:08 <SimonRC> needs slightly better indenting and more pares, but otherwise quite readable
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17:18:37 <SimonRC> maybe splitting it into seperate functions for states 0 and 1 would help
17:20:50 <SimonRC> and some of those conditions need to o the other way out
17:20:54 <SimonRC> *go
17:21:49 <SimonRC> wow, his indentation just goes down the plughole at the end of that function
17:23:17 <SimonRC> in fact, escaping should be a third state
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17:29:14 <AnMaster> SimonRC, I find the "procedural" style easiest to follow
17:29:22 <AnMaster> but I guess it is just due to being a C programmer
17:29:27 <SimonRC> ah, waitamo, he continues to improve it...
17:29:49 <AnMaster> SimonRC, you disagree I guess?
17:30:00 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, hi!
17:30:01 <tusho> SimonRC: even if it is kinda nice, it'll be horrid to write and its hideously non-idiomatic
17:30:03 <MikeRiley> hello
17:30:04 <tusho> and the whole stack thing
17:31:28 <SimonRC> multiple return values would be nice; dunno if js can do those
17:32:32 * SimonRC would like a comment box on that blog
17:34:59 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, what exactly is the point of 3DSP?
17:35:37 <MikeRiley> it provides vector and some matrix operations...
17:35:47 <MikeRiley> on 3d vectors...
17:35:48 <AnMaster> are they hard to implement in Funge?
17:35:53 <MikeRiley> not hard at all...
17:35:58 <AnMaster> hm ok
17:36:29 <MikeRiley> i thought once about doing something really crazy and writing a simple raytracer in funge,,,and needed the 3d vector/matrix operations to do it...
17:36:34 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I do see the point of providing floating point (could be hard to implement) and sqrt, sin and so on (could also be hard to implement)
17:36:57 <SimonRC> funges do not do function calls nicel
17:36:57 <MikeRiley> the floating point was not hard,,,since single precision is 32 bits, same as the cell size,,,
17:36:58 <SimonRC> y
17:37:12 <AnMaster> SimonRC, depends, try SUBR
17:37:19 <MikeRiley> if you use SUBR then function calls work out ok...
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17:37:53 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, anyway how would you handle denormals and such in pure funge version of floating point?
17:37:59 <SimonRC> it would be nice to have a "side call" instruction
17:38:01 <AnMaster> I hope you didn't implement it using mini-funge!
17:38:06 <MikeRiley> do not need to...
17:38:11 <AnMaster> no?
17:38:23 <MikeRiley> i use a union with a 32-bit integer and a floating point value...
17:38:33 <MikeRiley> as long as you do not use the fp cells for integer math, then it works fine...
17:38:39 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yes right, I thought you implemented it in mini-funge :P
17:38:43 <AnMaster> which would be quite a feat
17:38:43 <SimonRC> it pushes the "next" location on the return stack, then instead turns left/right and goes that way...
17:38:48 <AnMaster> while doing it in C is easy
17:38:49 <MikeRiley> i read the cells using the union, and do the math from the union...
17:38:53 <AnMaster> I do it using a union
17:39:02 <SimonRC> nice and fungey rather than that crap with calculated offsets
17:39:04 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, same
17:39:04 <MikeRiley> no, did not do it in minifunge, would have been too hard!!! eheheheheheeh
17:39:22 <SimonRC> (a return would simply pop+jump)
17:39:37 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, my interpreter will support mini-funge the day someone write TRDS in pure mini-funge (I don't think that is possible)
17:39:40 <AnMaster> :P
17:39:48 <MikeRiley> i doubt that is possible!!! eheheheheheeheh
17:39:56 <Deewiant> well, befunge is turing-complete
17:39:59 <MikeRiley> too tied into the interpreter...
17:40:05 <Deewiant> you'd have to write a befunge interpreter in the mini-funge
17:40:09 <Deewiant> which implements TRDS
17:40:10 <AnMaster> yes...
17:40:13 <MikeRiley> that is what you would have to do....
17:40:15 <AnMaster> which would be crazy
17:40:23 <MikeRiley> and dang slow!!!!!!!
17:40:26 <AnMaster> anyway mini-funge couldn't implement FILE either
17:40:33 <MikeRiley> not without expanding it....
17:40:36 <AnMaster> indeed
17:40:40 <AnMaster> I done some extending
17:40:51 <AnMaster> based on !Befunge's extended mini-funge
17:40:59 <AnMaster> called dynafing
17:41:08 <MikeRiley> i have seen a page on that somewhere...
17:41:27 <AnMaster> brb phone
17:41:29 <Deewiant> phlamethrower.co.uk IIRC
17:41:47 <tusho> phlamethrower = same site as the one with the befunge domain name
17:41:56 <Deewiant> quite
17:41:57 <tusho> save for the logo and link to the other domain
17:42:05 <tusho> err, nt logo
17:42:07 <tusho> just the index page
17:42:14 <tusho> on the other one it adds '# Wondering what the deal is with the domain name? Head over to my befunge pages to find out.'
17:42:27 <tusho> who runs that site?
17:42:29 <tusho> seems it's still updated
17:42:39 <tusho> My email addresses are phlamethrower@quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info, or alternatively me at phlamethrower dot co dot uk.
17:42:40 <Deewiant> his name is there somewhere
17:42:45 <Deewiant> I think
17:42:51 <MikeRiley> i think it is...
17:43:28 <MikeRiley> hey Deewiant, did you see my email about the FIXP errors???
17:46:05 <Deewiant> I did now :-)
17:48:16 <Deewiant> hmm, I wonder if the _ is just flipped
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17:48:29 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: what does the stack look like at (37,523)
17:49:26 <MikeRiley> hold on. let me see if i can find out...
17:49:41 <Deewiant> RC/Funge-98 has a debugger, no? :-)
17:51:34 <MikeRiley> yes it does...
17:51:58 <Deewiant> so just do "bp 37 523" or whatever the command was
17:54:19 <MikeRiley> does not look like 37 523 is an instruction it will stop at...
17:54:48 <Deewiant> meh
17:54:51 <Deewiant> there should be a _ there
17:54:51 <MikeRiley> tested break points at other addresses and works fine....
17:54:56 <MikeRiley> hmmmmmm
17:55:04 <Deewiant> maybe you've got a different origin than I do
17:55:09 <Deewiant> line 524, column 38
17:56:05 <Deewiant> or hmm
17:56:07 <MikeRiley> let me try again...
17:56:10 <Deewiant> if it doesn't stop there
17:56:22 <Deewiant> does it go to (45,520) (a w)?
17:56:34 <MikeRiley> let me try...
17:56:44 <Deewiant> maybe the w is flipped actually
17:56:50 <MikeRiley> stopped at that
17:56:55 <Deewiant> what's on the stack
17:56:59 <MikeRiley> hold on
17:57:10 <MikeRiley> 0 350000 8191 8191 8192
17:57:22 <Deewiant> alright
17:57:33 <Deewiant> and next it probably goes to (45,519) right?
17:57:38 <MikeRiley> let me see...
17:57:49 <MikeRiley> yes...
17:58:07 <Deewiant> alright, so I've just got the w wrong
17:58:38 <MikeRiley> hopefully a simple fix...
17:58:47 <Deewiant> yeah, it is
17:59:10 <Deewiant> or it should be
17:59:17 <Deewiant> ;-)
17:59:20 <MikeRiley> eheheheh
17:59:47 <Deewiant> meh, stupid code results but oh well
17:59:57 <Deewiant> since there isn't much room there so I have to do a bit of jumping around :-P
18:00:12 <Deewiant> or there is quite a bit of room actually, I just don't want to move code around
18:00:52 <MikeRiley> yeah,,,always fun editing funge code!!!!
18:02:15 <Deewiant> your asin is wrong
18:02:22 <Deewiant> 17.45760312 is the exact result
18:02:30 <Deewiant> 17.4575 is wrong then
18:03:10 <MikeRiley> depends on rounding and precision....
18:03:18 <Deewiant> not rounding
18:03:26 <Deewiant> since it's over 17.4576 you can't round it to 17.4575
18:03:32 <Deewiant> and since this is fixed point, the precision is fixed
18:03:32 <MikeRiley> true,,,,,
18:03:53 <MikeRiley> in my interpreter it is doing all the math in floating point and converting back...
18:03:56 <Deewiant> so you can't say it's due to floating point inaccuracy :-P
18:03:59 <Deewiant> sure
18:04:03 <Deewiant> maybe you should doubles instead :-)
18:04:06 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> alright, so I've just got the w wrong
18:04:07 <Deewiant> +use
18:04:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what?
18:04:08 <MikeRiley> probalby should!!!
18:04:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what is going on with w?
18:04:26 <Deewiant> w turns left or right or goes forward
18:04:30 <Deewiant> I had the left and right cases the wrong way around
18:04:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes I know
18:04:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, in all places?
18:04:40 <Deewiant> in two places
18:04:47 <AnMaster> in mycology that is?
18:04:53 <Deewiant> yes, in FIXP
18:05:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway, does this affect my FIXP implementation?
18:05:04 <Deewiant> you're probably not getting any BADs from FIXP so it doesn't affect you
18:05:07 <AnMaster> ah
18:05:08 <AnMaster> right
18:05:10 <AnMaster> no BAD
18:05:16 <Deewiant> it's the places where it checks for two possible answers
18:05:25 <MikeRiley> whereas i am getting a couple bads with numbers that are correct...
18:05:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however if I change k behaviour I get BAD from random places in mycology
18:05:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yes, that's to be expected
18:05:41 <Deewiant> and mycology is to be updated in that regard.
18:05:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well when will it be updated like that?
18:06:07 <Deewiant> weekend, as I've said often before
18:06:12 <AnMaster> ah right
18:06:14 <Deewiant> or hopefully the weekend, anyway
18:06:24 <AnMaster> <MikeRiley> yeah,,,always fun editing funge code!!!!
18:06:27 <AnMaster> I got a trick
18:06:32 <AnMaster> to make maintainable funge code
18:06:42 <AnMaster> it makes it almost like a normal programming language
18:06:42 <MikeRiley> and that trick is??? keep space!!!! eheheheheeh
18:06:48 <AnMaster> just end every line with:
18:06:49 <AnMaster> 11x>
18:06:53 <AnMaster> 11x>
18:06:58 <AnMaster> aligned like that
18:07:09 <MikeRiley> i see.....interesting....
18:07:18 <AnMaster> " si gnidaeH :FEDNU">:#,_A.a"seerged">:#,_ 11x> ; UNDEF: Initial heading ;
18:07:18 <AnMaster> "( era sdnuoB :FEDNU">:#,_U.."( )",,,..a'),, 11x> ; UNDEF: Bounds ;
18:07:18 <AnMaster> a7+3*5*N 0C 11x> ; Clear with blue. Set pen to black ;
18:07:18 <AnMaster> 0H 1P 11x> ; Set direction, pen down. ;
18:07:19 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: there's a new version of mycology up, just redownload it, should work hopefully...
18:07:20 <AnMaster> is an example
18:07:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, that works really well
18:07:28 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,will go and grab it....
18:07:42 <MikeRiley> brb
18:09:42 <MikeRiley> yep,,,,that looks better....
18:10:07 <ihope> Hey, the lambda calculus functions form a ring, don't they? Makes me wonder if there are any prime functions.
18:10:13 <MikeRiley> a couple more bads scratched of my list....
18:10:36 <AnMaster> $ ./cfunge -S catseye/diagt.b98
18:10:36 <AnMaster> thread 2 started
18:10:36 <AnMaster> thread 1 started
18:10:36 <AnMaster> OK
18:10:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the thread error went away when I fixed the k issue
18:10:54 <AnMaster> so I guess it was just an effect of that
18:10:59 <Deewiant> alright
18:11:46 <MikeRiley> i guess that clarifies the k issue a bit more....
18:12:06 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, btw with the k as catseye there will be some issues, I can paste them if you want (as my implementation passes except for that
18:12:19 <AnMaster> BAD: 3k4 leaves more than 3 fours on stack
18:12:19 <AnMaster> BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
18:12:19 <AnMaster> BAD: 0y pushes wrong stack stack size
18:12:21 <AnMaster> those ones
18:12:30 <MikeRiley> yeah, i was just ignoring those one for now...
18:12:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but tell me how the "BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks" depends on k
18:12:41 <AnMaster> I would like to hear
18:12:53 <Deewiant> as if I would know offhand
18:12:54 <MikeRiley> the "a b" one works fine for me....
18:12:59 <MikeRiley> that one shows good....
18:13:13 <MikeRiley> the other 2 show bad tho...
18:13:50 <MikeRiley> oh,,,so the k issue effects the 0y one???? well,,,i guess i can quite trying to fix that one!!! eheheheeheheheheh
18:14:19 <Deewiant> there are some places in mycology where I've just used a value that happened to be left on the stack
18:14:33 <Deewiant> so if something previous is BAD, the value may be different
18:14:39 <Deewiant> which can cascade really deeply
18:14:40 <MikeRiley> makes sense...
18:14:59 <Deewiant> something like that might only show up 100 lines later
18:15:08 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I get "good" for the "a b" one when k works as in CCBI
18:15:45 <AnMaster> which probably means you got another error hiding it hehe
18:15:53 <MikeRiley> that one has always been good for me,,,,after i fixed the multi-space problem...
18:16:19 <AnMaster> well do you get all GOOD up to that point?
18:16:24 <MikeRiley> hmmmmmm, i should break k in mine and see what it does...
18:16:32 <MikeRiley> hold on....let me look...
18:16:36 <Deewiant> of course he doesn't, since 3k4 is before that
18:16:38 <AnMaster> yes not very hard to break
18:16:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah right duh
18:17:06 <MikeRiley> the 3k< shows up bad right above it
18:17:22 <MikeRiley> and the 0y one and the 3k4 one...
18:17:26 <MikeRiley> everything else shows good....
18:17:29 <MikeRiley> or undef
18:17:57 <MikeRiley> actually, the 0y is below that point,,,so no effect from that...
18:18:32 <MikeRiley> so only bads above the "a b" are the 3k4 and the 3k<
18:19:10 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, could be two bugs hiding each other
18:19:13 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I had that once
18:19:14 <MikeRiley> not sure what is the deal with the 3k< since way i see it,,,it is going to take 3 ticks,,,,depending on how you test.....1 tick for the 3, 1 tick for the k,,which the ip will now go the other way, and then another tick for the 3 again...
18:19:23 <MikeRiley> certainly possible...
18:19:23 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, when I fixed one the other part broke
18:19:29 <AnMaster> I had *two* off by one errors
18:19:32 <MikeRiley> i have had that happen to me as well...
18:19:33 <AnMaster> that masked each other
18:19:44 <AnMaster> and showed up when it tested negative funge space
18:20:11 <AnMaster> I also had some off by two errors iirc
18:20:17 <MikeRiley> those are the aggravating kinds of problems...
18:20:50 -!- Corun has joined.
18:20:51 <AnMaster> oh yes I also found a few bugs in mycology
18:21:04 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and one (indirectly) in CCBI
18:21:14 <AnMaster> oh and quite a few crash bugs in ccbi
18:21:24 <Deewiant> "quite a few"?
18:21:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, does all your fingerprints handle division by zero?
18:21:28 <Deewiant> do remind me :-P
18:21:32 <MikeRiley> they should....
18:21:39 <Deewiant> CPLI didn't in mine, IIRC
18:21:44 <MikeRiley> but not certain,,,i need to check it...
18:21:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, division by zero in FIXP (iirc), CPLI, and some more
18:21:52 <AnMaster> TOYS too(?)
18:21:56 <MikeRiley> could be some division by zero bugs still there....
18:21:57 <Deewiant> meh, that's all one bug :-)
18:22:02 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I used fuzz testing on cfunge
18:22:11 <AnMaster> I got a script for that, but it is cfunge specific
18:22:35 <AnMaster> but issues found with it can be adapted (in fact some tests in tests/ in cfunge are that)
18:23:01 <AnMaster> anyway it is cfunge specific because it expects that the program will pass valgrind completely in normal operation with no memory leaks
18:23:02 <MikeRiley> breaking the k,,,,allows both the "a b" and the 3k< to show good
18:23:04 <AnMaster> and errors
18:23:11 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, ok that's odd...
18:23:25 <MikeRiley> and fixing the k the "a b" shows good and the 3k< does not
18:23:52 <MikeRiley> breaking the k also shows the 0y one correctly...
18:23:54 <AnMaster> well here "a b" breaks only with broken k
18:23:56 <AnMaster> which is odd
18:24:01 <MikeRiley> interesting....
18:24:55 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, does RC/Funge search past spaces when looking for instruction to repeat with k?
18:25:05 <AnMaster> I got a mail from C. Pressy that said that was what to do
18:25:15 <AnMaster> also seek past any matching ; .... ;
18:26:03 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, if you give me your mail I can forward it
18:26:27 <MikeRiley> it does look past spaces,,,
18:26:31 <MikeRiley> and past ; pairs...
18:26:35 <AnMaster> ah :)
18:26:38 <AnMaster> ccbi doesn't iirc
18:26:49 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, does it also handle wrapping?
18:26:58 <MikeRiley> not sure there,,,,would have to test for that....
18:27:04 <AnMaster> a sec
18:27:05 <AnMaster> I got one
18:27:36 <AnMaster> 3k ; ; ;; ; f
18:27:44 <AnMaster> add some code at the end to print out to check
18:29:34 <MikeRiley> will try it....
18:29:50 -!- CakeProphet has quit ("lolwhut?").
18:30:18 <MikeRiley> that works just fine...
18:30:18 * SimonRC goes
18:30:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, my funge-108 draft can be found at http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/
18:30:29 <AnMaster> in pdf and lyx formats
18:30:31 <MikeRiley> going to grab it...
18:30:38 <AnMaster> lyx is just a GUI frontend to LaTeX really
18:31:02 <MikeRiley> got it...
18:31:21 <AnMaster> www.lyx.org (but you can view the pdf version easily enough)
18:31:53 <MikeRiley> thanks, will take a look at that...
18:32:19 <MikeRiley> by the way,,,on the 3k ; ; ;; ; f i get 4 15s on the stack...
18:32:38 <AnMaster> well yes that would match Funge-98 behaviour
18:32:49 <MikeRiley> yep...
18:33:18 <AnMaster> (not Funge-108, you would get 3 15s, as it *always* skips go forward then then)
18:33:21 <AnMaster> wait...
18:33:23 <AnMaster> hm
18:33:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, when it skips over after k in 108... Should it skip over next *instruction* or next char
18:33:54 <AnMaster> as this may differ in cases like:
18:34:00 <AnMaster> 3k 4
18:34:08 <AnMaster> C. Pressy said you should seek past spaces
18:34:24 <Deewiant> hmm
18:34:32 <Deewiant> the only case in which it matters is if the k instruction modifies funge-space
18:34:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not really, if matters if you turn
18:35:04 <AnMaster> well it does in the way I implement "seek past spaces"
18:35:05 <MikeRiley> i understand that spaces are ethereal, and for the most part they do not exist as far as the ip is concerned
18:35:13 <Deewiant> yep, same with ;
18:35:13 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yep...
18:35:24 <MikeRiley> same thing with the ; pairs....
18:35:27 <AnMaster> aye
18:35:38 <AnMaster> so seek past next instruction?
18:36:00 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, do you think that it makes sense that if you turn in "2k ]" that you continue from under the ]?
18:36:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, um no
18:36:23 <Deewiant> then it has to be the char, no?
18:36:30 <Deewiant> otherwise it's special cases again
18:36:30 <AnMaster> well but:
18:36:44 <AnMaster> 1kv
18:36:46 <AnMaster>
18:36:47 <AnMaster>
18:36:51 <AnMaster> a
18:36:57 <AnMaster> should that jump over the spaces?
18:37:01 <AnMaster> not that it matters in this case
18:37:09 <AnMaster> but it matters when you have:
18:37:12 <AnMaster> 1k a
18:37:15 <Deewiant> again
18:37:20 <AnMaster> where it would be logical to jump over the a
18:37:26 <Deewiant> if you want "1k ]"
18:37:28 <AnMaster> as otherwise you execute it once to many
18:37:34 <Deewiant> s/1/2/
18:37:51 <Deewiant> to not continue from under the ], then it has to be the char, or you get special cases, which we would like to avoid
18:37:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, question is. should k resume execution 2 chars from itself. or 2 instructions from itself
18:38:00 <AnMaster> assuming the position wasn't changed
18:38:07 <AnMaster> (but delta may have been)
18:38:23 <Deewiant> and my answer is the same as I have already said twice
18:38:29 <MikeRiley> my take on k, for all cases except 0k,,,,is that the ip stays at k until the end of the instrution, and then the ip moves normally along its delta...
18:38:33 <AnMaster> but I never said "continue under ]"
18:38:42 <AnMaster> I said should it just jump over one char
18:38:48 <AnMaster> or should it jump over one instruction
18:38:52 <AnMaster> wherever that instruction may be
18:38:58 <AnMaster> 1k ]
18:39:00 <AnMaster> a
18:39:01 <AnMaster> or
18:39:02 <AnMaster> 1k ]
18:39:05 <AnMaster>
18:39:06 <AnMaster>
18:39:07 <AnMaster> a
18:39:09 <AnMaster> err
18:39:11 <AnMaster> a
18:39:13 <AnMaster> is what I mean
18:39:15 <MikeRiley> if you have it jump and instruciton,,,,then lkv should jump the instruciton underneath the k...
18:39:17 <AnMaster> after some blank lines
18:39:28 <MikeRiley> why should their be exceptions of the delta is changed??
18:39:33 <MikeRiley> specs do not call for that....
18:39:37 <AnMaster> no there shouldn't be
18:39:39 <AnMaster> I didn't say that
18:39:45 <AnMaster> gah must try to say it clearer
18:39:52 <AnMaster> will bbiab with some examples
18:39:58 <MikeRiley> ok,,,
18:40:10 <Deewiant> I don't know, it seems silly to me that "1k 4" continues after the 4 but "1k ]" after whatever's under the k
18:40:16 <Deewiant> but if you're fine with it, fine
18:41:00 <MikeRiley> all my FIXP errors are now fixed!! :)
18:41:21 <MikeRiley> i agree.,,,which is why 1k 4 continues from the k.....and not the 4....
18:41:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, MikeRiley: http://rafb.net/p/5Dpvny52.html
18:41:33 <MikeRiley> the delta will move it past the spaces to execute the 4 again...
18:42:06 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, that will make it impossible to do 0 iterations: 0ka
18:42:10 <AnMaster> will still just 10 once
18:42:12 <Deewiant> that's the way I see it as well
18:42:23 <MikeRiley> except the 0 iterations causes a jump,,,,but that is an exception....
18:42:37 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, so it is impossible to do one iteration then?
18:42:40 <MikeRiley> i wonder if the 0 just means the k does not do anything,,,the instruction follwoing would execute as normal...
18:42:46 <AnMaster> that's even more odd IMO
18:42:54 <MikeRiley> from what i understand of the specs,,,yep,,,not possible for 1 iteration...
18:43:06 <AnMaster> which I think should be possible in Funge-108
18:43:17 <MikeRiley> again,,,the specs do not say that the IP moves from the k while k is being executed....
18:43:36 <MikeRiley> i agree,,,,and would like to see the iteration of 1....
18:43:44 <MikeRiley> but i think in Funge-98, it is not possible with k...
18:43:48 <AnMaster> right
18:43:53 <AnMaster> but in 108 it will be
18:43:56 <MikeRiley> good!!!!
18:43:57 <AnMaster> the issue here is spaces
18:44:07 <AnMaster> as you can see in http://rafb.net/p/5Dpvny52.html
18:44:11 <MikeRiley> spaces are ethereal, as if they do not exist...
18:44:26 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, so k should jump past the next instruction always?
18:44:31 <AnMaster> or next char always?
18:44:36 <MikeRiley> in my mind it does not matter if you have 1kab or 1k ab, you will get the same result...
18:44:38 <AnMaster> anyway next char doesn't work
18:44:49 <AnMaster> 2k; this is a comment;a
18:44:57 <AnMaster> now that doesn't make any sense
18:45:01 <MikeRiley> i agree,,,,
18:45:04 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that could be a design criterion for you: inserting any ; pairs or spaces between k and instruction shouldn't matter
18:45:04 <AnMaster> if you don't go past next char
18:45:07 <tusho> ,,,,,,
18:45:20 <MikeRiley> spaces and ; pairs are ethereal, and should not be taken into account when k moves the ip...
18:45:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed it shouldn't matter, k will seek past spaces and ;
18:45:40 <AnMaster> as the mail from Pressy that I forwarded said
18:45:57 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, agreed. So this means that:
18:45:57 <AnMaster> 1kv
18:45:57 <AnMaster>
18:45:57 <AnMaster> a
18:45:57 <AnMaster> b
18:45:58 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yeah, but now you're bringing in all these ; cases
18:46:01 <AnMaster> will push the b?
18:46:11 <AnMaster> that is the only logical conclusion then
18:46:14 <Deewiant> AnMaster: 2k; this is a comment;a should be identical to 2ka should be identical to 2k ;foo bar; a
18:46:15 <MikeRiley> will push the a and the b,,,,in 98,,,,and i guess in 108, the b....
18:46:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed it should
18:46:29 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
18:46:34 <MikeRiley> i agree there deewiant...
18:46:36 <AnMaster> which means it should *seek past next instruction*
18:46:39 <AnMaster> not *next char*
18:46:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so what's the problem then :-)
18:46:42 <AnMaster> which is what # does
18:46:44 <MikeRiley> if you are seeking yes....
18:46:53 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, the way I see it is not that it seeks
18:47:01 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> 1kv
18:47:01 <AnMaster> <AnMaster>
18:47:01 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> a
18:47:01 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> b
18:47:06 <AnMaster> that pushes a or b?
18:47:12 <Deewiant> both
18:47:30 <AnMaster> 1kv
18:47:30 <AnMaster> ;
18:47:30 <AnMaster> Really?
18:47:30 <AnMaster> ;
18:47:30 <AnMaster> a
18:47:31 <AnMaster> b
18:47:34 <AnMaster> what about that?
18:47:36 <Deewiant> yes, really.
18:47:45 <Deewiant> because, as I just said, it shouldn't matter no matter what ; you put in there.
18:48:09 <Deewiant> after k executes, it moves to the next instruction, as normal
18:48:15 <Deewiant> there's no special seek or move involved
18:48:22 <Deewiant> right?
18:49:07 <AnMaster> hm
18:49:20 <AnMaster> right the one after it just executed
18:49:24 <AnMaster> this is 108 after all
18:49:28 <AnMaster> not 98
18:50:13 <MikeRiley> with 108,,,you can just say,,,,that k skips the instruction it iterated,,,,if the ip moves somewhere other than the iterated instruction,,,,then it is not skipped...
18:50:36 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, that would be CCBI behaviour
18:50:42 <AnMaster> which causes extra special cases
18:50:53 <MikeRiley> why extra special cases???
18:50:57 <MikeRiley> only 1 special case...
18:50:58 <AnMaster> I hoped to avoid that by simply saying "always jumps forward"
18:51:12 <AnMaster> hrrm
18:51:17 <AnMaster> I guess that is the only sane way
18:51:30 <MikeRiley> only special case is,,,,if the next instruction to be executed by the ip is the iterated instrution, skip it....
18:51:45 <MikeRiley> otherwise execute it...
18:52:08 <MikeRiley> that deals with changes in deltas without skipping anything and then would work properly for things like 0k or 1k....
18:52:18 <MikeRiley> with a non delta changing instruction after it...
18:53:23 <AnMaster> yes
18:53:36 <AnMaster> what about next instruction being a p? so it overwrites itself
18:53:46 <AnMaster> then you could argue it is not the same instruction ;P
18:53:56 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,maybe better to say,,,the ip skips the cell of the iterated instrution....
18:54:07 <MikeRiley> no matter what is there...
18:54:09 <AnMaster> right :)
18:54:11 <Deewiant> and only if it's going to hit it next
18:54:18 <Deewiant> I guess that works
18:54:19 <MikeRiley> yes,,,only if it hits it next...
18:54:24 <Deewiant> that'd be what CCBI does currently?
18:54:32 <AnMaster> "If the next cell to be executed after k would be the one it iterated on, then it moves ip forward to just past said instruction. The result is that k skips over the next instruction."
18:54:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is
18:56:17 <MikeRiley> all my FIXP problems are now solved....
18:56:38 <Deewiant> did you just switch to doubles? ;-P
18:57:06 <MikeRiley> that i did....
18:57:16 <MikeRiley> solved all the remaining bads...
18:57:20 <MikeRiley> in FIXP...
18:57:32 <Deewiant> it's probably still not a robust solution, if I just tested big enough numbers
18:57:37 <Deewiant> but meh, whatever
18:57:50 <AnMaster> what is the issue with the FIXP Deewiant?
18:57:59 <Deewiant> no issue
18:57:59 <AnMaster> not using epsilon to test? :P
18:58:13 <Deewiant> well, it's fixed point
18:58:19 <Deewiant> so it should be fully accurate to the fixed precision
18:58:26 <AnMaster> I bet I would get other results if I used 128-bit SSE floating point numbers
18:58:29 <Deewiant> but since I guess everybody does stuff via floating point
18:58:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you do it by floating point too?
18:58:44 <Deewiant> I suppose it'll break down at some point and you'll get an error in the last digit
18:58:55 <AnMaster> because fixed point sin() would be a pain in C at least
18:58:55 <Deewiant> yeah
18:59:02 <MikeRiley> yes it would...
18:59:04 <Deewiant> and no, not really, I don't think so
18:59:25 <Deewiant> just some fixed-point iteration or whatever
18:59:44 <Deewiant> but I still can't be bothered to do it :-P
18:59:52 <MikeRiley> certainly could be done,,,just iterate the sin formula instead of using the c library to do it for you...
19:00:27 <Deewiant> yep
19:00:35 <pikhq> It's not like it's impossible to compute the Taylor series...
19:00:39 <Deewiant> yep
19:01:07 <MikeRiley> nope,,,in fact my trig functions on my elf stuff uses fixed point arithimetic on the taylor series....
19:01:50 <MikeRiley> which was done in 1802 assembly,,,would actually not be that hard to do it in c...
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19:03:02 <tusho> s/,+ ?/, /g
19:03:05 <MikeRiley> oh....by the way....i have change FILE a little bit,,,,added another command to it...
19:03:06 <tusho> ;)
19:03:57 -!- olsner has joined.
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19:06:29 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, about the issues with "a b" I suspect it may be related to some UNDEF before
19:06:35 <AnMaster> messing up later on
19:06:40 <AnMaster> with the changed k
19:06:42 <MikeRiley> possible...
19:06:48 <AnMaster> that is all I think of as a reason for it
19:07:00 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, you probably do other stuff at some undef than me
19:07:02 <MikeRiley> currently 15 bads remaining to be fixed, all but 3 are in the fingerprints...
19:07:07 <MikeRiley> that is possible....
19:07:27 <MikeRiley> execution time of mycology is:
19:07:28 <MikeRiley> real 0m1.476s
19:07:28 <MikeRiley> user 0m1.400s
19:07:28 <MikeRiley> sys 0m0.052s
19:07:33 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/uVhUs586.html
19:07:50 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I guess some differ?
19:08:00 <AnMaster> as for i and o
19:08:06 <AnMaster> those are due to the -S switch
19:08:10 <AnMaster> -S enables sandbox mode in cfunge
19:08:16 <AnMaster> preventing any unsafe actions
19:08:24 <AnMaster> and blocking some fingerprints
19:08:27 <MikeRiley> your undefs look like mine with the exception of i an o...
19:08:28 <AnMaster> while -F disable all fingerprints
19:08:45 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I think my sandbox one is a good idea, allow safe fuzz testing too :)
19:09:05 <MikeRiley> yes, that does sound like a good idea...
19:09:05 <AnMaster> anyway I get same result without -S and -F
19:09:38 <AnMaster> to be exact, -S blocks: i, o, = and certain fingerprints
19:09:49 <AnMaster> oh it also hides some environment variables
19:09:55 <AnMaster> it just allow a safe set of them
19:10:09 <MikeRiley> might want to add that to mine as well...
19:10:48 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/sPhQzF38.html is the gperf file I use to generate the list of good environment variables
19:10:53 <MikeRiley> i assume the fingerprints you block are things like FILE and SOCK??
19:10:55 <AnMaster> gperf generates a perfect hash
19:11:05 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yes indeed PERL too
19:11:07 <AnMaster> and some more
19:11:11 <MikeRiley> yes perl too...
19:11:16 <AnMaster> I haven't yet implemented SOCK btw
19:11:22 <AnMaster> but it would definitely be one to block
19:11:57 <MikeRiley> yes,,,it would...
19:12:06 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, DIRF too btw
19:12:15 <MikeRiley> DIRF as well...
19:12:42 <AnMaster> DIRF, FILE and PERL are the only ones that I block so far, but I haven't yet implemented some fingerprints
19:12:48 <MikeRiley> others look like they would be safe...
19:13:01 <MikeRiley> only system interaction ones would need to be blocked...
19:13:02 <AnMaster> FPDP, FPSP TOYS yeah safe I think
19:13:21 <AnMaster> technically STDIO is system interaction... ;P
19:13:30 <AnMaster> but no I don't block &~,.
19:13:44 <MikeRiley> true,,,,,but a bit harder to do something destructive with stdio...
19:13:59 <AnMaster> well I could really mess up your terminal
19:14:01 <AnMaster> using control codes
19:14:07 <MikeRiley> yep.....
19:14:13 <AnMaster> say, put it into some don't echo and use line graphics mode
19:14:36 <AnMaster> (of course just type "reset" and hit enter to restore it)
19:14:37 <MikeRiley> could always block the <esc> character in sandbox mode...
19:15:12 <MikeRiley> yep....
19:15:13 <AnMaster> nah I wouldn't block esc
19:15:14 <MikeRiley> as well as control characters besides lf,cr,nl
19:15:29 <MikeRiley> messing up the terminal is really not that big a deal...as you said....reset would fix anything that happened...
19:15:49 <AnMaster> yes assuming it wasn't hardwired to a printer
19:15:56 <AnMaster> not likely these days though :P
19:16:07 <MikeRiley> yep...not too likely....
19:16:29 <AnMaster> and if it was it would the users own fault heh
19:17:01 <AnMaster> anyway I need to push an updated funge108 one up now
19:17:32 <MikeRiley> got to run for a bit,,,,be back in a little while...
19:17:44 <AnMaster> just put up a new one that reflects k better
19:17:49 <AnMaster> upload done
19:17:51 <AnMaster> and cya
19:18:03 <MikeRiley> will look when i get back....
19:18:06 <MikeRiley> cya....
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19:23:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 432kk5
19:23:20 <AnMaster> this got 2 issues
19:23:25 <AnMaster> at which k is the 5 executed
19:23:38 <AnMaster> when it jumps past next instruction after first k
19:23:41 <AnMaster> where does it end up?
19:24:03 <AnMaster> and then what about 432kkv
19:24:08 <AnMaster> from what k does that go down?
19:24:09 <Deewiant> it jumps to the 5, no?
19:24:19 <Deewiant> and the 5 is executed on the inner k
19:24:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so it will push a final 5 after the first k right?
19:24:30 <Deewiant> that's how I see it
19:24:41 <AnMaster> inner k?
19:24:44 <AnMaster> you mean second one?
19:24:45 <Deewiant> so kkk is even trickier :-)
19:24:48 <Deewiant> yep
19:24:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so what about:
19:24:59 <AnMaster> 432kkv
19:25:01 <AnMaster> ab
19:25:03 <Deewiant> what about it
19:25:12 <Deewiant> hmm
19:25:12 <AnMaster> will that execute a or b after?
19:25:19 <Deewiant> a
19:25:26 <Deewiant> I'd say
19:25:56 <Deewiant> because the outer k completes last
19:26:03 <AnMaster> right
19:34:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/35jr7b24.html (&#64257; is the ligature fi, blame LaTeX output in combination with said ligature existing in unicode...)
19:34:40 <Deewiant> no, I blame you for putting an HTML entity instead of UTF-8 :-P
19:34:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, blame that on firefox + pastebin
19:34:59 <AnMaster> of of them anyway
19:35:08 <Deewiant> pastebin, specifically
19:35:09 <AnMaster> I just copied it from pdf output
19:35:17 <AnMaster> yeah one of them did it
19:35:34 <Deewiant> "execute the 4 four times" s/4/5/
19:35:43 <AnMaster> ah thanks
19:36:09 <AnMaster> fixed that typo
19:36:49 <AnMaster> so in result, nested k isn't really useful anyway ;P
19:37:09 <AnMaster> anyway this means some major headache in cfunge, due to the way it implements stuff
19:37:13 <Deewiant> no, but it's not useless either
19:37:24 <Deewiant> and yeah, might be a pain to implement :-)
19:37:43 <AnMaster> basically yet more special casing
19:37:47 <AnMaster> and refactoring
19:38:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway what does ccbi do on nested k currently?
19:38:10 <Deewiant> stuff
19:38:18 <AnMaster> "stuff"?
19:38:31 <AnMaster> as in you want me to read the code and try to figure out?
19:38:34 <Deewiant> I think 432kk12345 would execute first 1 3 times, then 2 4 times, before jumping to the 3
19:38:37 <Deewiant> but I'm not sure
19:38:41 <Deewiant> no, you can just test it :-P
19:39:13 <AnMaster> anyway that's an interesting interpretation you had :P
19:39:21 <Deewiant> no, it's just no handling of the k case
19:39:28 <Deewiant> so it moves after executing the inner k
19:39:31 <Deewiant> as well as the outer k
19:39:36 <AnMaster> well mine wound probably execute the second k on the second k
19:39:37 <AnMaster> currently
19:39:56 <AnMaster> but I can see how to handle multiple k nicely
19:40:02 <AnMaster> it is called recursion
19:40:03 <Deewiant> sure, it wouldn't be hard
19:40:05 <AnMaster> with special casing
19:40:05 <Deewiant> er, no
19:40:10 <Deewiant> you don't need anything special
19:40:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I do, as the instruction doesn't know *where* it is, only where the ip is
19:40:28 <Deewiant> the only change to CCBI now would be to not move after executing an inner k
19:40:36 <AnMaster> so it will look one ahead from current ip
19:40:55 <AnMaster> result: I need to go forward once again and actually execute the second k at the second k
19:41:33 <AnMaster> that, and restoring ip after each iteration on top k is all that is needed
19:41:46 <AnMaster> this will work on 3 k too
19:41:54 <AnMaster> brb
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19:50:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what if the second k changes delta when it first executes?
19:50:13 <AnMaster> wait yeah
19:50:25 <AnMaster> no it is consistent still
19:50:28 <Deewiant> then nothing
19:50:29 <Deewiant> yes
19:50:49 <AnMaster> however I need to execute the second k at itself each time.
19:53:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, um what if second k changes *position?
19:53:14 <AnMaster> *position*
19:53:29 <AnMaster> 432kk#abcdef
19:53:30 <AnMaster> say
19:53:38 <Deewiant> I don't want to think about it >_<
19:53:48 <Deewiant> 4k# itself is messed up enough :-P
19:54:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nor do I, but I need to think about it.... what should happen
19:54:11 <AnMaster> or: 432kk#
19:54:12 <AnMaster> err
19:54:13 <Deewiant> so go ahead and think about it, I don't want to :-)
19:54:14 <AnMaster> or: 432kkj
19:54:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well what about something else that sets position without messing with other stuff?
19:54:49 <AnMaster> say something from SUBR
19:54:51 <Deewiant> I don't want to think about it >_<
19:54:52 <Deewiant> I don't want to think about it >_<
19:54:57 <AnMaster> ah right
19:55:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I can't come up with something sane, I thought about it for a while
19:55:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I will have to ask MikeRiley when he gets back
19:56:08 <Deewiant> I don't want to think about it >_< stop pinging me :-P
19:56:34 <AnMaster> hrrm...
19:57:09 <AnMaster> wow
19:57:12 <AnMaster> just wow
19:57:16 <AnMaster> internal compiler error
19:57:30 <Deewiant> GCC failing on you? :-)
19:57:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well this code is quite messed up now
19:57:46 <Deewiant> heh
19:58:27 <AnMaster> as the function got different prototypes with concurrency support and without it
19:59:03 <AnMaster> #ifdef CONCURRENT_FUNGE
19:59:03 <AnMaster> # define RunSelf() RunIterate(ip, IPList, threadindex)
19:59:03 <AnMaster> #else
19:59:03 <AnMaster> # define RunSelf() RunIterate(ip)
19:59:03 <AnMaster> #endif
19:59:05 <AnMaster> that works
19:59:13 <AnMaster> no internal compiler error now
19:59:22 <Deewiant> fk2kkkt
19:59:26 <AnMaster> what!?
19:59:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I do handle 2kt and 2k@ correctly
20:00:02 <AnMaster> that is why I need the different prototype
20:02:22 <AnMaster> wait
20:02:56 <AnMaster> In 432kk5 the second k would actually execute the 5 *five* times the second iterations
20:02:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right?
20:03:09 <AnMaster> as the first iteration pushed 5s
20:04:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, tell me, what should 32kk5 >:#._@ print?
20:04:12 <AnMaster> *poke*
20:07:01 <Deewiant> outer k pops two, executes twice:
20:07:10 <Deewiant> inner k pops three, executed thrice:
20:07:14 <Deewiant> 5
20:07:23 <Deewiant> inner k pops zero, nothing happens
20:07:39 <Deewiant> oh, d'oh
20:07:46 <AnMaster> first time: 5 5 5
20:07:47 <Deewiant> inner k pops /five/, executed 5 times:
20:07:50 <Deewiant> 5
20:07:51 <AnMaster> second time...
20:07:55 <Deewiant> so
20:07:56 <AnMaster> 5 5
20:07:57 <AnMaster> +
20:07:58 <Deewiant> output: 5555555
20:08:00 <AnMaster> 5 5 5 5 5
20:08:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nop, . adds a trailing space
20:08:16 <AnMaster> according to spec
20:08:21 <Deewiant> oh, it was a . not a ,
20:08:31 <Deewiant> well, anyhoo, 7 bytes
20:08:38 <AnMaster> yes
20:08:40 <Deewiant> are pushed on stack
20:08:47 <AnMaster> and . wouldn't output a 5
20:08:53 <AnMaster> it would output some control char
20:08:58 <AnMaster> err
20:08:59 <AnMaster> ,
20:09:00 <AnMaster> I mean
20:09:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway then what about: 4k'a
20:09:12 <AnMaster> that is a bit hard itself
20:09:19 <AnMaster> I think cfunge may do the wrong thing here
20:09:25 <Deewiant> that's like 4k# and I don't want to think about it :-)
20:11:24 <psygnisf_> heeeeey guys
20:11:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes... but I think it may push some '
20:11:58 <AnMaster> or a
20:12:01 <AnMaster> not sue
20:12:02 <AnMaster> sure*
20:13:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, help please http://rafb.net/p/Y2LKjU71.html
20:13:38 <AnMaster> does that test seem right?
20:13:43 <AnMaster> in cfunge it cause an infinite loop
20:13:49 <AnMaster> and tracing goes bad
20:13:50 <AnMaster> mad*
20:14:01 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=5: " (34)
20:14:01 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=4: B (66)
20:14:01 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=5: " (34)
20:14:01 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=6: (32)
20:14:01 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=7: > (62)
20:14:02 <AnMaster> tix=0 tid=0 x=4 y=0: k (107)
20:14:05 <AnMaster> and that makes no sense
20:14:40 <Deewiant> seems right to me
20:14:50 <AnMaster> (gdb) call FungeSpaceDump()
20:14:50 <AnMaster> Fungespace follows:
20:14:50 <AnMaster> 432kkv
20:14:50 <AnMaster> ""
20:14:50 <AnMaster> DD
20:14:51 <AnMaster> OA
20:14:53 <AnMaster> OB
20:14:57 <AnMaster> G"
20:14:59 <AnMaster> "
20:15:01 <AnMaster> >>:#,_a,@
20:15:03 <AnMaster> seem right there too
20:16:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I see what the issue is
20:16:44 <AnMaster> next time k will look at the "
20:16:45 <AnMaster> not the v
20:16:49 <AnMaster> as the delta changed
20:16:51 <AnMaster> for the inner k
20:16:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, :P
20:17:16 <Deewiant> but is that what we want
20:17:22 <AnMaster> it is
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20:17:30 <Deewiant> seems weird
20:17:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, just my test case was fucked up then
20:17:38 <Deewiant> but I guess it makes sense
20:17:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nested k *doesn't* make sense
20:17:58 <AnMaster> nor does k on stuff like ' or #
20:18:07 <Deewiant> it makes a lot of sense, just these stupid delta/pos changers don't :-P
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20:18:14 <AnMaster> this is just following the rule set defined and see where it leads
20:18:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well even if you don't move after you have issues on that
20:19:43 <AnMaster> 432kkv
20:19:43 <AnMaster> zz
20:19:43 <AnMaster> z>0"DAB">:#,_a,@
20:19:43 <AnMaster> >0"DOOG">:#,_a,@
20:19:45 <AnMaster> ok that works
20:19:47 <AnMaster> for testing it
20:24:31 <AnMaster> yay that prints good now
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20:35:46 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I got some questions for you
20:35:54 <AnMaster> that Deewiant said "<Deewiant> I don't want to think about it >_<"
20:35:59 <AnMaster> 432kk#
20:36:00 <AnMaster> and
20:36:08 <AnMaster> 2k'a
20:36:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, tell me what happens in those
20:36:24 <MikeRiley> ok,,,
20:36:43 <MikeRiley> well,,,i would think that 2k' would put two 's on the stack...
20:36:58 <AnMaster> yes that is the what cfunge currently does
20:37:03 <AnMaster> however.
20:37:17 <MikeRiley> and in the 432kk i would think this would end up popping a lot of the stack and do nothing else...
20:38:16 <AnMaster> about ': "This pushes the Funge character value of the next encountered cell (position + delta) onto the stack"
20:38:23 <AnMaster> so yes would push ' here I think
20:38:39 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, no I didn't say 432kk
20:38:40 <MikeRiley> and since position is the k,,,,since the ip is not moved until after k is done,,,,
20:38:40 <AnMaster> I said
20:38:44 <MikeRiley> should push the '....
20:38:45 <AnMaster> 432kk#
20:38:48 <AnMaster> as in jumping
20:38:53 <AnMaster> to be exact
20:39:02 <AnMaster> 432kk#abcdef123456789
20:39:05 <AnMaster> or whatever
20:39:07 <MikeRiley> i know....but i still think it would do no more than pop a lot off the stack,,,,
20:39:14 <MikeRiley> since the k executes at the first k...
20:39:23 <AnMaster> well yes and no
20:39:26 <MikeRiley> the 2nd k,,,ip is still pointing at the first k....
20:39:32 <MikeRiley> and so will just read the k again...
20:40:33 <MikeRiley> the ip did not move to the 2nd k....
20:40:42 <MikeRiley> now when the k's exhaust the stack,,,,
20:40:51 <MikeRiley> the ip will move the # and jump to the b....
20:40:53 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/pQcrKo80.html
20:40:55 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, ^
20:40:57 <AnMaster> for funge108
20:41:02 <MikeRiley> looking
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20:41:46 <MikeRiley> your way of doing in 108 is reasonable...and makes it acuatlly usefull....
20:42:00 <AnMaster> yes and it been a headache really
20:42:13 <AnMaster> that is just one apsect of k in funge108 ;P
20:42:17 <AnMaster> it fills a page
20:42:27 <MikeRiley> yeah,,,,,k should have filled a page on the 98 spec....
20:42:28 <AnMaster> this code however: 4k#5
20:42:37 <AnMaster> that will certainly jump over the 5
20:42:43 <MikeRiley> yes....
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20:43:03 <AnMaster> so I'm not sure why it wouldn't cause the same on nested k
20:43:14 <MikeRiley> different situation...
20:43:30 <MikeRiley> from my understanding of this:
20:43:38 <MikeRiley> when 4k#5 executes,,,,
20:43:43 <MikeRiley> ip is pointing at k
20:43:47 <AnMaster> anyway fixing the k going downward thing broke the 32kk5 >:#._a,@ test I had...
20:43:52 <MikeRiley> first iteration, ip is pointing at #
20:44:00 <MikeRiley> 2nd iteration ip is pointing at 5
20:44:09 <MikeRiley> 3rd iteration ip is pointing one cell past 5
20:44:19 <MikeRiley> 4th interation ip is pointing one cell furter...
20:44:30 <MikeRiley> end of instrucion, k moves the ip and will be one cell further yet...
20:44:57 <AnMaster> hrrm
20:45:04 <MikeRiley> since # moves the ip.....
20:45:19 <AnMaster> yes...
20:45:21 <MikeRiley> it will keep moving with each iteration...
20:45:34 <AnMaster> however the last iteration of the second k won't reset the ip
20:45:40 <AnMaster> the way I see it
20:45:42 <MikeRiley> in something like kk...the ip remains pointing at the first k...since no instructi9on is changing ...
20:45:59 <AnMaster> yes... and no... :/
20:46:01 <Deewiant> unless it's kk#...
20:46:16 <MikeRiley> but again,,,the ip is pointing at the first k....
20:46:21 <AnMaster> remember the CCBI style of skip next
20:46:31 <AnMaster> *headache*
20:46:32 <MikeRiley> even when the 2nd k is executed, it is still pointing at the first k...
20:46:41 <Deewiant> but the 2nd k then executes the # which moves the ip...
20:46:47 <AnMaster> yes
20:47:00 <AnMaster> but it is reset at next iteration, as the k executes *at* the k
20:47:00 <MikeRiley> only after the first k has finished fully iterated and falls through...
20:47:01 <AnMaster> remember?
20:47:14 <AnMaster> so you will have to reset it when *entering*
20:47:24 <AnMaster> this is, the # must execute at the *second* k
20:47:35 <AnMaster> even though the second k executes at the first k
20:47:36 <AnMaster> :P
20:47:45 <MikeRiley> for 108, we can say that....the 98 spec does not work that way...
20:48:01 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yes this is figuring out how it would work in 108
20:48:05 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,
20:48:15 <AnMaster> as well as 98 too kind of
20:48:20 <MikeRiley> in that respect,,,,i think something like 32kk# should execute the #...
20:48:24 <MikeRiley> that would be usefull....
20:48:33 <MikeRiley> where as the 98 semantic is pretty much pointless...
20:48:48 <AnMaster> because I think that part (apart from never skip next instruction after k) is undefined in 98
20:48:49 <AnMaster> right?
20:49:13 <MikeRiley> well,,,,the 98 spec does not say that k modifies the ip from its standard way of moving...
20:49:23 <AnMaster> indeed
20:49:32 <AnMaster> while it makes both # and ' change the way they move
20:49:34 <MikeRiley> which would mean the instruciton must execute from the k...
20:49:40 <MikeRiley> yes...
20:50:48 <MikeRiley> in fact,,,,looking at the spec,,,,,4k'abcd should actuully put abcd onto the stack...
20:50:56 <MikeRiley> since the ' spec does say that it moves the ip....
20:51:19 <MikeRiley> actually,,,it should put 'abc on the stack
20:51:54 <AnMaster> good point
20:52:02 <Deewiant> and then, by 98, execute the d, leaving the stack as ' a b c 13
20:52:03 <AnMaster> actually cfunge may already work that way
20:52:20 <MikeRiley> since k also does not specify that the ip is reset on each iteartion...and since ' specefies a move,,,just like # does....
20:52:32 <MikeRiley> let me try that in Rc/Funge-98....brb...
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20:53:14 <AnMaster> $ ./cfunge tests/iterate-fetchchar.b98
20:53:14 <AnMaster> 13 cba
20:53:17 <AnMaster> 4k'abcd .,,,a,@
20:53:20 <AnMaster> that was the code
20:53:23 <MikeRiley> in Rc/Funge, i got cba' on the stack,,,
20:53:30 <AnMaster> not what I had expected
20:53:40 <AnMaster> wait
20:53:43 <MikeRiley> with c as top of stack...
20:53:50 <AnMaster> $ ./cfunge tests/iterate-fetchchar.b98
20:53:51 <AnMaster> 13 cba'
20:53:51 <AnMaster> from
20:53:56 <AnMaster> 4k'abcd .,,,,a,@
20:54:07 <AnMaster> one too few , in test program first time
20:54:29 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and no 13?
20:54:33 <Deewiant> just use >:#,_ :-P
20:54:34 <MikeRiley> oh,,,,i have the 13 as well,,,,so 13 cba'
20:54:45 <AnMaster> wonder what ccbi does :P
20:54:55 <MikeRiley> well,,,i guess we agree on that one!!!!
20:55:04 <Deewiant> probably the same, apart from skipping over the d currently
20:55:51 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, fix all BAD before the weekend (apart from it's incorrect k) ;P then CCBI will for the first time be less standard conforming than RC/Funge
20:55:52 <AnMaster> hehe
20:56:05 <MikeRiley> eheheheeheheheheheheeh
20:56:08 <Deewiant> unless you count fingerprints ;-)
20:56:21 <AnMaster> well I mean fixing the BAD in fingerprints too
20:56:27 <Deewiant> good luck with TRDS ;-)
20:56:31 <MikeRiley> eheheheheeheheheheh
20:56:32 <AnMaster> ah true...
20:56:33 <AnMaster> ouch
20:56:36 <AnMaster> that will take some time
20:56:41 <MikeRiley> but then anmaster does not have that one...
20:56:47 <AnMaster> indeed I don't
20:56:57 <MikeRiley> and probably never will if i guess correctly!!! eheheheheheheeheh
20:57:00 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, btw when I looked at your fingerprints you seem to implement them as one function with a switch case
20:57:00 <Deewiant> yeah, but we were comparing CCBI and RC/Funge-98 and not cfunge ;-)
20:57:13 <MikeRiley> yes, that is how they execute...
20:57:19 <MikeRiley> thought about changing it....
20:57:21 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, interesting way of doing it
20:57:25 <AnMaster> I use function pointers
20:57:36 <MikeRiley> that is what i though of changing too...funtion pointers...
20:57:40 <AnMaster> I also auto generate the list of available fingerprints from spec files
20:57:43 <AnMaster> to generate an array
20:57:49 <Deewiant> well, RC/Funge-98 still has the incorrect way of doing fingerprints, no?
20:57:56 <MikeRiley> yep...
20:58:01 <AnMaster> the spec files can also be used to generate the initial template C files for the fingerprints
20:58:20 <MikeRiley> may make a compatability mode,,,kinda like the -Y for that,,,since i prefer the method that it currently uses...
20:58:38 <Deewiant> I'd prefer it if you defaulted to spec compatibility, though
20:58:45 <MikeRiley> to me,,,the fingerprint mechanism in Rc/Funge-98 seems more usable...
20:58:45 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, http://rafb.net/p/dHBaNm41.html
20:58:49 <AnMaster> I have a bash script parsing that
20:59:05 <AnMaster> to generate the array that fingerprint loading searches through
20:59:19 <AnMaster> url need to be updated yes
20:59:41 <MikeRiley> interesting the way you do that...
21:00:03 <AnMaster> sed 's|http://web.archive.org/web/20020816190021/http://homer.span.ch/~spaw1088/funge.html|http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html|' -i *.spec
21:00:04 <AnMaster> fixed :P
21:00:09 <MikeRiley> back when Rc/Funge was written,,,my programming skills were a bit more primitive...so there are lots of things that i would change now....
21:00:16 <AnMaster> then:
21:00:17 <AnMaster> tools/gen_fprint_list.sh
21:00:25 <AnMaster> to update the list
21:00:42 <AnMaster> // FILE - File I/O functions
21:00:42 <AnMaster> { .fprint = 0x46494c45, .uri = NULL, .loader = &FingerFILEload, .opcodes = "CGLOPRSW",
21:00:42 <AnMaster> .url = "http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html", .safe = false },
21:00:44 <AnMaster> there we have it :)
21:01:59 <AnMaster> and now I uploaded yet a newer version of the funge-108 draft
21:02:18 <MikeRiley> will have to grab that...
21:02:56 <MikeRiley> got it....
21:11:45 <MikeRiley> problems in FTH module are now all fixed...
21:11:51 <MikeRiley> FRTH module that is...
21:12:54 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, you have put this up somewhere?
21:13:04 <AnMaster> I mean version control system or so
21:13:34 <MikeRiley> not on the web, only within my own dev system...
21:13:37 <AnMaster> it seems too few are keen on using public version control :)
21:13:44 <AnMaster> well what one do you use?
21:13:46 <Deewiant> I would, but I lack a server
21:13:47 <MikeRiley> cvs
21:13:51 <AnMaster> oh my
21:13:55 <AnMaster> why cvs?
21:14:10 <MikeRiley> that is the one that i learned years ago...and have never had a need to change it...
21:14:40 <MikeRiley> if you would like the current set of sources,,,i just need your email and i will send them to you...
21:21:24 <AnMaster> well no need
21:21:32 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> I would, but I lack a server
21:21:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about some public hosting place?
21:21:45 <Deewiant> too paranoid ;-)
21:21:50 <AnMaster> there are such for bzr, svn, cvs and git at least
21:22:01 <AnMaster> I'm sure there is one for mercurial too
21:22:06 <AnMaster> not sure what one
21:22:11 <Deewiant> there is
21:22:25 <AnMaster> oh?
21:22:34 <Deewiant> forget what it's called but there is :-P
21:22:39 <Deewiant> I think there might even be two, actually
21:22:48 <AnMaster> http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/MercurialHosting
21:23:14 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:25:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nothing as good as there is for bzr though
21:25:15 <AnMaster> bzr got the very nice launchpad
21:25:24 <AnMaster> svn and cvs have sourceforge
21:25:29 <Deewiant> haven't really looked at any of them at all
21:26:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, most seem to have an commercial aspect
21:26:52 <AnMaster> unlike launchpad (which offers bzr hosting). but launchpad got Ubuntu behind it
21:26:54 <AnMaster> so not odd
21:26:56 <Deewiant> bitbucket is the one I was thinking of
21:27:02 <Deewiant> and freehg is the other
21:27:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, doesn't mercurial work on a plain http server?
21:27:23 <MikeRiley> IIPC fixed now...
21:27:23 <AnMaster> bzr does
21:27:32 <Deewiant> no, bzr and darcs only
21:27:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah. bad luck
21:27:45 <Deewiant> or, well
21:27:52 <Deewiant> if you have CGI support
21:27:54 <Deewiant> then, sure
21:27:56 <AnMaster> because that is one of the nicer features
21:28:06 <Deewiant> but only bzr and darcs can serve with only static pages
21:28:07 <AnMaster> right, but I mean without cgi
21:28:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, bzr is very nice btw IMO
21:28:26 <Deewiant> it's kind of annoying that bzr needs the client to be able to see the source, though :-/
21:28:29 <AnMaster> even though I could set up more complex stuff on my server
21:28:34 <AnMaster> I got root there (duh)
21:28:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well yes I may fix the webui stuff tomorrow
21:29:21 <AnMaster> try to get loggerhead working
21:29:22 <AnMaster> anyway
21:29:28 <AnMaster> it is mirrored on launchpad
21:29:33 <AnMaster> launchpad has loggerhead
21:30:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, https://code.launchpad.net/~anmaster/cfunge/main
21:30:36 <AnMaster> doesn't have the last changes though
21:30:43 <AnMaster> Last mirrored: 5 hours ago
21:30:43 <AnMaster> Next mirror: in 10 minutes
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21:33:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, still it allows you to browse the code
21:34:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, MikeRiley: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eanmaster/cfunge/main/files
21:34:33 <AnMaster> still not last version mirrored there
21:35:39 <MikeRiley> looking...
21:36:02 <oklopol> who are you, mike?
21:36:15 <Deewiant> RC/Funge-98's author
21:36:19 <oklopol> nice
21:36:31 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, next update of that mirror will happen in a few minutes it seems
21:36:32 <oklopol> nite
21:36:34 <oklopol> ->
21:36:39 <AnMaster> oklopol, heh cya
21:37:46 <psygnisf_> oklopol!
21:37:52 <psygnisf_> its only 4:30!
21:37:55 <psygnisf_> you cant go to sleep!
21:37:57 <psygnisf_> ..
21:38:00 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive.
21:38:26 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, I'm going to sleep soon too
21:38:35 <psygnisfive> wtf?!
21:38:36 <MikeRiley> still early afternoon for me...
21:38:45 <psygnisfive> how are you going to sleep so early?!
21:42:01 <psygnisfive> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=253693
21:42:02 <psygnisfive> lol
21:42:04 <psygnisfive> oh kids
21:43:04 <Deewiant> Like it is small, so I should imagine it is fast? So like maybe for large problems involving lots of "number crunching"?
21:43:34 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, 22:43 here
21:43:35 <Deewiant> gah
21:43:36 <Deewiant> So... The compiler itself is insanely efficient (I have heard that it is on the order of ~200 bytes).
21:43:46 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, learn about timeszones
21:43:48 <MikeRiley> 13:43 here...
21:43:56 <psygnisfive> anmaster: learn about humor
21:44:01 <Deewiant> for (;;){} is pretty small too, but that doesn't mean it's efficient >_<
21:44:04 <psygnisfive> also, learn about formal languages
21:44:06 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, error
21:44:17 <AnMaster> humor is undefined
21:44:21 <MikeRiley> where is "here" anmaster???
21:44:28 <psygnisfive> has anyone ever tried write a forth program backwards?
21:44:29 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, Sweden
21:44:32 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and you?
21:44:41 <MikeRiley> las vegas,nevada,usa....
21:44:44 <AnMaster> ah
21:45:06 <MikeRiley> when Rc/Funge-98 was originally written, i was living in zurich,switzerland...
21:45:09 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, eh? you mean as in piping one into rev?
21:45:19 <psygnisfive> er.. "into rev"?
21:45:23 <AnMaster> $ echo "abc" | rev
21:45:24 <AnMaster> cba
21:45:24 <AnMaster> see?
21:45:29 <psygnisfive> yes, sure.
21:45:43 <psygnisfive> programming it like its lisp, but reading it backwards.
21:45:45 <AnMaster> except:
21:45:46 <AnMaster> $ echo -e "abc\ndef" | rev
21:45:46 <AnMaster> cba
21:45:46 <AnMaster> fed
21:47:08 <AnMaster> tusho, you forgot to join #eso btw
21:47:16 <psygnisfive> :o
21:47:17 <psygnisfive> whats #eso?
21:47:30 <AnMaster> Esoteric Standard Organisation
21:47:41 <AnMaster> ask tusho
21:48:56 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, anyway switzerland... Wouldn't that be same timezone as me?
21:49:23 <AnMaster> GMT+1
21:49:30 <AnMaster> currently CEST
21:49:34 <AnMaster> due to summertime
21:49:41 <AnMaster> (or as they say in US, daylight saving)
21:49:46 <psygnisfive> what does ESO do
21:49:48 <MikeRiley> yep,,,it was gmt+1
21:50:20 <AnMaster> http://eso-std.org/
21:50:28 <AnMaster> have a homepage without info on it
21:50:32 <AnMaster> that's what they do :P
21:50:33 <psygnisfive> theres no info there
21:52:06 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, indeed not
21:52:18 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, think ISO for esoteric languages
21:52:23 <AnMaster> that is the plan anyway
21:52:33 <psygnisfive> how will THAT work?
21:52:44 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, well I'm eager to find out too
21:52:52 <tusho> bak
21:52:53 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, helping with standards anyway
21:52:55 <psygnisfive> tusho
21:52:57 <psygnisfive> explain ESO
21:52:58 <AnMaster> tusho, #eso
21:53:03 <tusho> psygnisfive: no
21:53:04 <tusho> AnMaster: no
21:53:05 <AnMaster> tusho, you forgot to join
21:53:08 <tusho> AnMaster is wrong
21:53:12 <AnMaster> tusho, what?
21:53:24 <tusho> everything you've said about eso in the past few minutes has been wrong
21:53:39 <AnMaster> tusho, it was the way you described it to me
21:53:43 * AnMaster shrugs
21:53:46 <AnMaster> anyway night
21:53:48 <tusho> can
21:53:50 <tusho> 't recall that
21:53:52 <tusho> but I was wrong, then
21:53:57 <psygnisfive> tusho, whats ESO do
21:54:52 <tusho> psygnisfive: long story.
21:54:57 <psygnisfive> ive got time
21:55:15 <tusho> i've not got the patience to type out all of it atm :)
21:55:20 <psygnisfive> :P
21:55:29 <psygnisfive> well when you do, maybe you should put it up on eso-std
21:55:37 <psygnisfive> that way you'll never have to type it again
21:56:40 <tusho> -shrug-
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22:00:15 <MikeRiley> down to only 8 bads left...
22:02:09 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
22:02:47 <tusho> MikeRiley: Funge-98 is dead! Long live Funge-98!
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22:17:02 <tusho> {Like it is small, so I should imagine it is fast? So like maybe for large problems involving lots of "number crunching"?} is the best thing I've heard all week, fwiw
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