00:02:50 -!- Corun has joined. 00:18:43 x.x 00:18:54 i accidentally snorted cayenne pepper powder x.x 00:22:42 -!- tusho has quit. 00:28:30 psygnisfive: oooh 00:28:35 describe your sensations 00:28:39 sneezey 00:28:45 then a tingly bit in my nose 00:28:47 thats about it 00:29:04 boring 01:04:04 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:10:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 01:39:21 -!- ErkiDerLoony1 has joined. 01:39:37 -!- ErkiDerLoony has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:40:24 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:40:36 thats about it 01:40:47 this shows that he didn't snort cayenne pepper 01:40:54 i did! 01:41:02 well, i didnt snort a LOT of it 01:41:12 maybe 2 grains of powder 01:41:17 just what powder was floating in the air 01:41:19 but 01:41:23 on 01:41:24 *oh 01:41:38 but i knew it quite immediately 01:41:48 and it stayed tingly for a while 01:41:50 like ten minutes 01:41:52 i know that actually insufflating cayenne paper will incapacitate you for at least half an hour 01:42:06 oh im sure it will if you snort a line of it, yeah 01:42:09 yeah 01:43:41 ... Snorting cayenne? 01:43:52 yeah man 01:43:56 i once made a batch of popcorn and accidentally used cayenne instead of paprika. it was left unedible but for some reason i left it on the counter for a few days, and every time i walked past i would forget and be like "oooh popcorn!" and eat some and spend a while sneezing and crying 01:43:57 I may be a bit of a capsaicin nut, but that seems a bit much, even for me. 01:43:57 its all the rage these days 01:44:01 its the newest high 01:44:11 they call users pepperheads on the street 01:44:29 bsmntbombdood: Um, how would that be unedible? 01:44:39 Cayenne isn't *that* hot. 01:44:54 Okay, fine, so it might taste shitty... 01:45:06 pikhq: the airborne powder was most of the problem 01:45:08 bsmntbombdood: hahaha sux2bu 01:45:10 But unedible? 01:45:32 unedible is also totally not the word 01:45:35 its inedible 01:45:43 like i said, eating it caused sneezing, sniffling, and crying 01:45:50 Weak. 01:46:17 Some people react like that to jalepenos. ;) 01:46:25 did you know that paprika is just dried powderized red bell peppers? 01:46:42 and that almost all hot peppers, and bell peppers as well, are actually just different varieties of the same species? 01:46:51 isn't that common knowledge? 01:47:01 Actually, there's about 3 or 4 different species of capsicum. 01:47:02 not common enough for me to know! :( 01:47:23 but im from amerkuh so who knows 01:47:38 Most of them are cultivars of one capsicum species, IIRC, but there are a few other species. 01:47:47 pikhq: i know there are three or four species, but most, e.g. cayennes, jalapenos, habaneros, etc. are all the same species 01:48:10 Habaneros are a different species from jalepenos, IIRC. 01:48:29 But jalepenos, cayennes, bell peppers, etc. are definitely the same species. 01:48:48 ah youre right 01:48:55 jalapenos are c. annuum 01:49:01 habaneros are c. chinense 01:49:06 :) 01:49:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 01:50:00 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 01:50:23 grrrr window manager typo 01:50:31 lolwut 01:51:47 M-c instead of M-space 01:51:58 i dont understand :D 01:52:45 ...M-c closes the current window, M-space shows/hides the scratchpad 01:53:04 For the record: pvmove fuckups *suck*. 01:53:27 that is a shitty design 01:53:52 not really 01:54:21 sure it is 01:54:50 space and c are really close together and its silly to assign that functionality to them 01:55:08 itd be like assigning "save" and "close without save" to two adjacent keys 01:55:35 clumsy fingers aren't the designer's fault 01:56:07 Of all the typos I've done, c instead of space is not among them. 01:56:32 put your thumb on meta and then try 01:56:54 Okay, so my right thumb is on meta. 01:57:07 thats not the point tho 01:57:11 And my left thumb on space. 01:57:16 ...and use your right index on space :P 01:57:22 good user interface design dictates that such things should not be so close together 02:12:49 who wants moroccan beef stew? :D 02:17:38 lol tornado brb 02:19:59 "lol tornado brb" 02:20:04 so quoted. 02:20:33 -!- psygnisfive has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | lol tornado brb. 02:26:44 Who the hell uses the right index finger on space? 02:27:09 I mean, honestly; the index finger just damned well better not be moving that damned far. 02:28:01 pikhq: actually I do 02:28:18 pikhq: not consciously, but occasionally I have encountered these insane keyboards where the right half of the spacebar is backspace 02:28:35 pikhq: and it's quite possibly the worst design decision in the history of human interface devices 02:29:03 (oh actually I mean thumb, not index finger) 02:31:36 ... The right half of the spacebar is backspace? 02:31:40 Um, *what*?!? 02:31:44 That is *terrible*. 02:32:01 Next person to move backspace from the upper right of the keyboard gets shot, IMO. 02:32:20 * pikhq thinks that Sun should be shot, for what it's worth 02:34:07 pikhq: left actually 02:34:26 if i were to use my other thumb i'd have to take my hand off the mouse, my drink, my cock, whatever 02:37:38 pikhq: yeah, I tried using it for like half an hour and eventually conceded defeat. I just could *not* use it 02:38:03 bsmntbombdood: "Mouse"? 02:38:03 pikhq: I can't even remember where this was. Maybe some ancient computer lab at university 02:38:29 Oh, that's that pointless input device that sits next to my keyboard, isn't it? 02:38:36 hmm 02:38:49 "ooooh i don't use a mouse my epeen is huuuuuuuuge look at me!" 02:38:56 Why *do* we have separate devices for mouse and cock? They could probably be merged... 02:39:15 bsmntbombdood: My epeen is only huge because I wrote PEBBLE. :p 02:39:29 My lack of a mouse is only for personal sanity purposes. 02:39:51 pikhq: the mouse is useful for web browsing and games 02:40:02 Games, yes. 02:40:08 Web browsing? Meh. 02:40:17 pikhq: speaking of which, did they ever fix hit-a-hint or come up with any decent keyboard browsing tools? 02:40:18 Link numbering is very handy. 02:40:34 not as handy as a mouse 02:40:35 pikhq: if you're using lynx, yeah. What about in firefox? 02:40:47 I use the Conkeror web browser. . . 02:41:04 cute 02:41:14 except it says "inspired by emacs" at the top 02:41:15 Which is a browser with an Emacs-like interface in XULrunner. 02:41:32 It also has a Vi mode, though I'm not sure how useful that is. 02:41:42 the only thing emacs inspires is fear, misery, and wretchedness 02:41:55 or maybe I should do that tutorial 02:42:00 and join the cult 02:42:19 there's a plugin for firefox that emulates emacs 02:42:19 I certainly feel more inclined to do so now that I know there is xemacs made by people who think stallman is nuts 02:42:27 give it a similar interface that is 02:42:31 bsmntbombdood: That would be Conkeror. 02:42:37 oh lol 02:42:53 ooh, vi mode? 02:43:02 Conkeror used to be a Firefox plugin; they've found that it's much easier to get it to play nicely by just using XULrunner. 02:43:39 never heard of it 02:43:54 i tried conkeror for a while, but it was pretty poorly done 02:44:07 anyway there is a firefox extension that allows you to hold a key and it renders chord-key-sequences next to every link 02:44:20 which works nicely but they made some stupid change like breaking the spacebar 02:44:26 and I haven't used it since 02:44:53 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 02:48:11 It's much better done now. 02:48:28 If you will excuse me, I need to go into single user mode to futz with LVM. 02:48:29 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 02:49:06 cool 02:57:42 broke any other extensions that use the ui if i remember right 03:29:46 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:30:23 Well, I'm logged in and still pvmove'ing. 03:30:41 Though I *am* here with /home readonly. 03:35:24 mlargle! 03:37:44 I've developed an extreme sense of paranoia towards LVM recently... 03:44:14 this chinese food smells remarkably like ass. 03:44:22 hawt, can i have some? 03:49:58 i'm afraid you can have all of it 03:53:05 (ya dirty shisno) 04:05:23 so guys 04:05:39 whos interested in a competition for who can come up with the best on-the-fly random trivia? 04:05:48 thats also compeltely fake? 04:08:45 curse the ipod for not having a sound recorder 04:10:52 Gladly. 04:18:57 thanks 04:20:37 I'll also laugh at it. 04:20:52 And, for that matter, laugh at all MP3 players not running Rockbox. :p 04:22:09 lament: thats funny 04:22:17 because they sell microphones for your ipod to do just that 04:22:38 tho i dont know if they're actually using software on the ipod or not 04:27:59 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:28:35 -!- Judofyr has joined. 04:31:18 hmm 04:31:31 i don't think the ipod itself has any software for sound recording 04:32:17 ipod touch :D 04:32:46 i mean my ipod 04:32:55 i mean buy a new one 04:33:11 no? 04:33:19 oh well. 04:35:19 sorry. 04:40:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:14:53 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 05:19:40 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 05:19:40 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:32:45 lalala 05:47:22 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 06:00:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:40:30 O_O_O_O_O 06:40:33 is NOONe here?! 06:40:33 :) 06:40:34 .. 06:40:36 :( 06:40:52 :D 06:40:56 hey 06:41:37 hello walking penis 06:41:47 im a walking penis? :O 06:47:36 Who isn't? 06:47:43 I MEAN, UH 06:47:54 *whew*, almost blew the cover of the EVIL WALKING PENIS PEOPLE 06:49:34 shhhh 06:49:53 ugh, i hate stupidity in science fiction :| 07:02:02 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:02:32 -!- Judofyr has joined. 07:53:21 psygnisfive, example? 07:53:29 ok 07:53:36 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:53:44 so in stargate atlantis theyve constructed this string of stargates from one galaxy to another, right 07:53:59 and halfway across theres a station for security purposes 07:54:12 -!- Judofyr has joined. 07:54:24 but, instead of doing like they do in every other facility they build, they DONT build an iris over the gate 07:54:36 result? absolutely no ability to resist an incursion. 07:55:31 psygnisfive, iris? 07:55:35 what the heck is that? 07:55:58 psygnisfive, assume I don't know what stargate is :) 07:56:00 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_(Stargate) 07:56:15 its basically a thing that closes over the stargate to prevent things from coming through 07:56:23 anmaster, have you never seen stargate? 07:56:25 It's mentioned in the "iris" disambiguation page. 07:56:42 Wikipedia: a big bag of trivia about TV series. 07:56:48 yes. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:21 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:30:00 -!- ErkiDerLoony1 has changed nick to ErkiDerLoony. 08:30:25 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:57:17 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 09:02:42 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:02:45 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 09:15:23 psygnisfive, nop 09:15:34 nop? 09:15:48 as in "no" 09:15:59 but with an extra key press 09:16:02 that wasn't intended 09:16:27 also known as "typo" 09:16:57 psygnisfive, I have indeed never seen stargate 09:17:32 well if you say indeed enough people will think you have 09:18:30 psygnisfive, ?? 09:19:00 one of the main characters, Teal'C, says "Indeed" quite a bit 09:19:08 psygnisfive, how should I know? 09:19:17 it's a bit of a spock-ish "Fascinating, captain" trait 09:19:19 Well there are more people saying indeed quite often. 09:19:23 you shouldn't, i was commenting. 09:19:28 psygnisfive, ah yes I have seen some Star Trek though 09:19:37 ErkiDerLoony, yes indeed :P 09:19:45 :) 09:21:04 for example in the Discworld series, "Havelock Vetinari" tend to say indeed quite a bit 09:21:08 * AnMaster is a Discworld fan 09:24:07 -!- tusho has joined. 09:24:35 NOMADS! 09:25:08 psygnisfive, hehehe 09:32:09 i want to write a story! :| 09:33:38 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:35:01 -!- CakeProphet_ has joined. 09:35:06 -!- CakeProphet_ has changed nick to CakeProphet. 09:53:42 psygnisfive: NOMADICALLY 09:54:54 <3 09:55:34 NOMADS HAVE THREE FUNCTIONS 09:55:43 TERURN :: M A -> A 09:56:10 BIDN :: A -> (M A -> B) -> B 09:56:16 FIAL :: STRING -> A 09:58:31 -!- Mony has joined. 09:58:58 hi ! 10:04:40 hi Mony 10:34:01 -!- RedDak has joined. 10:49:42 * tusho writes a parser for a restricted subset of querying english 10:49:53 rabbit's tails' lengths -> rabbit.tails.map(length) 10:50:08 and then I can parse "x is y", "x has y" and build up a silly little knowledge databse 10:50:11 *database 10:50:14 via irc! 10:54:47 :o 11:01:03 hmmmm 11:01:26 "the length of the rabbit's tail is 5cm" -> (is (rabbit tail length) (5cm)) is kind of non-trivial... 11:01:27 :( 11:02:22 Everything automatically becomes non-trivial when natural languages are involved. 11:05:36 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 11:10:20 fizzie: But of course. 11:10:31 Still, "rabbit's tail" and "the length of the rabbit's tail" are trivial. 11:10:36 It's those pesky assignments 11:22:10 tusho, what about "x got y" ;P 11:22:21 AnMaster: botte might automatically correct you for that 11:22:21 :p 11:22:30 say, kicks you from ESO each time you have it wrong 11:22:30 tusho, no thanks 11:22:32 (ARF ARF ARF) 11:22:37 tusho, anyway that wouldn't work 11:22:47 because there have to be cases where got is correct 11:22:56 yes 11:22:57 it'd be magical 11:22:59 tusho, which I would then make a point of using 11:32:28 ☃ 11:32:35 U+2603 SNOWMAN 11:32:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:33:04 -!- tusho has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | lol tornado brb | ☃. 11:50:00 ⚆ 11:57:01 tusho, that's quite wtf 11:57:14 what did they think when adding such a symbol 11:57:15 ☃⚆ snowman with circle with dot 11:57:19 OH I GET IT! 11:57:20 AnMaster: it's in the misc. symbols section 11:57:26 presumably signs used it 11:57:27 or something 11:57:41 they don't like that "a picture can say more than a thousand words" 11:57:50 unicode has 'REVERSED ROTATED FLORAL HEART BULLET' 11:57:55 so they prefer "an unicode char can say more than a thousands words" 11:57:55 ☙ 11:57:57 U+2767 11:58:04 'Comments: a binding signature mark' 11:58:06 Unicode is the fun. I like U+203d "INTERROBANG". 11:58:26 who doesn't like the interoobang‽ 11:58:29 fizzie, well that is sane compared to some other stuff 11:58:31 *interrobang 11:58:38 tusho, me!! 11:58:41 ;P 11:58:44 AnMaster: why not‽ 11:58:53 tusho, just because you like it 11:58:59 can't share an opinion with you 11:59:01 AnMaster: you're not seeing these are you‽ 11:59:09 yes I am 11:59:15 The out-of-BMP characters get very bizarre, too: U+1d337 "TETRAGRAM FOR VASTNESS OR WASTING". 11:59:21 but in this font and at this size it looks like a blurry question mark 11:59:35 fizzie, indeed, how does it look? 11:59:38 AnMaster: out of BMP 11:59:41 your font probably doesn't have it 11:59:44 ah 11:59:45 code2000, maybe 11:59:50 tusho, Dejavu font 11:59:57 yeah, doubtful 12:00:01 here 'tis though: 12:00:01 ok 12:00:08 𝌷 12:00:11 I see it 12:00:16 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1d337/index.htm for a better view 12:00:40 looks like Chinese char? 12:00:46 could explain it 12:00:48 fizzie, ^ 12:00:50 uh 12:00:51 no... 12:00:55 "Block Tai Xuan Jing Symbols" 12:00:58 it looks nothing like a chinese character, dude 12:01:02 it's a tetragram 12:01:04 *sounds* like Chinese char too 12:01:07 tusho, a what? 12:01:10 google it 12:01:15 and it looks nothing like a chinese char 12:01:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language 12:01:45 that's what chinese looks like 12:01:46 Well, it _is_ Chinese, in a sense. 12:01:51 fizzie: well yes 12:01:53 but it's a tetragram 12:01:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_Xuan_Jing 12:04:23 An unicode character can say more than a thousand ASCII characters 12:04:31 new version of "a picture can..." 12:04:32 ;P 12:04:51 They could replace the traffic STOP signs with the "tetragram for stoppage". 12:05:10 fizzie, there is one? 12:05:18 U+1d34c. 12:05:24 oh god 12:05:48 I guess the joke would be lost on most people. 12:05:57 yes it does I guess 12:06:39 "stoppage" seems very odd 12:08:35 stoppage: 1. Deduction from payments; a sum "stopped" or deducted from the pay of a soldier, workman, or servant. 1465 Paston Lett. II. 221, I told hym that..I wold pay hym his dewte without any stoppage. 12:08:46 ah 12:09:01 "dewte"? 12:09:05 AnMaster: duty 12:09:05 fizzie, wtf is "dewte"? 12:09:07 ah 12:09:11 right 12:09:11 note the year - 1465 12:09:14 :p 12:09:15 oh yes 12:09:36 "hym" == him I guess? 12:10:07 yes 12:10:10 amusingly reminds me of "womyn" 12:10:16 and wold = would, etc. 12:10:51 They haven't been too carefull with the spelling. OED quotations for "duty" include deuyte (1297), duetee (1386), dewte (1440), dywtes (1476), dewtie (1573) and more. 12:11:00 fizzie: carefull? 12:11:02 I see you haven't either :P 12:11:04 And I don't seem to be very care-full either, yes. 12:11:04 fizzie, OED? 12:11:10 AnMaster: oxford english dictionary 12:11:16 ah 12:11:20 let's start spelling it duti 12:11:34 ⌤ -^- 12:11:40 -!- jix has joined. 12:12:09 tusho, I recently saw some unicode char like _ but at the top of the line 12:12:14 yes. ⌨ 12:12:18 tusho, nop 12:12:22 it was higher up 12:12:25 uh 12:12:26 and a single line 12:12:27 that's a keyboard 12:12:33 oh 12:12:36 use your ⌨ to type a ☃ using unicode technologies 12:13:31 ❪l i s p❫ 12:13:41 anyway... what about that under line thing 12:13:46 shrug 12:13:50 ❫ ) ? 12:13:59 what is that bold )? 12:14:01 AnMaster: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/index.htm 12:14:04 ;) 12:14:07 and it's some unicode char 12:14:08 obviously 12:14:12 tusho, for what? 12:14:14 it is literally "strong )" or something 12:14:16 AnMaster: dunno 12:14:22 blergh 12:14:32 tusho, and yet they rejected Klingon? 12:14:40 AnMaster: i didn't say there was no use 12:14:44 I said I did not know what it was 12:14:55 tusho, no but snowman char has no use IMO 12:15:13 AnMaster: and obviously you personally know more about what characters are useful than the entire unicode consortium 12:15:14 right? 12:16:02 tusho, nop, but I don't think some of those are usefuk 12:16:05 useful* 12:16:15 AnMaster: you can safely assume you're wrong 12:16:20 also it's nope :p 12:16:29 -!- deveah has joined. 12:16:40 Hi dudes 12:17:08 the International 1kb-of-code roguelike contest is awesome 12:17:23 cool 12:17:48 I know 12:18:12 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.development/browse_thread/thread/ec8714cda9f0c8bc# 12:18:16 already made mine 12:18:16 i have a 20-line mud written in ruby somewhere around here 12:18:35 if it's <=1kb, you should post it on usenet 12:19:03 it's not a rougelike 12:19:03 it's a mud 12:19:05 and I didn't write it 12:19:13 oh 12:20:35 p.s. I'd call that first one more like non-real-time pacman ;) 12:20:50 Ido's ? 12:20:58 yea 12:21:39 how 'bout mine? 12:22:26 btw, I made an esolang based on OISC, "^" - with a different instruction: Reverse-Substract-and-Jump-if-Negative 12:22:34 (jumps to -val) 12:22:58 deveah, what computational class? 12:23:13 what's that? 12:23:20 ... 12:23:27 it only has one memory cell 12:23:33 so it can't be Turing-complete 12:23:38 if that's what you mean 12:23:40 ah 12:24:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Computational_class 12:24:40 * tusho considers writing a little forth/factor-alike for writing silly things like fibonacci programs and tiny rougelike games like deveah's 12:25:24 you should participate 12:25:32 it's easy :D 12:25:45 deveah, 1 kb source? 12:25:46 i suck at curses 12:25:47 and games 12:25:59 sourcecode, yes 12:26:23 my game rules http://pastie.org/249060 12:26:39 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:28:32 deveah, what language? 12:28:48 freebasic 12:28:53 why basic!? 12:28:54 :( 12:29:11 because freebasic = basic + C++ 12:29:21 qbasic + C++ 12:29:31 it uses curses 12:30:07 what the heck has C++ got to do with it? 12:30:27 anyway C++ is a correct name, it is a post increment 12:30:38 meaning... that it is no better than C 12:30:45 IMO worse than C 12:30:54 if they meant it was better they should have called it ++C 12:30:54 freebasic can include any C++ header file, it's the fastest BASIC ever 12:31:04 AnMaster: your trolling is much appreciated 12:31:04 +=C 12:31:07 deveah, but why basic! 12:31:09 unfortunately it's completely irrelevant 12:31:20 because it's the only language I know 12:31:27 tusho, not trolling, rant! 12:31:31 and a bit of PHP, too 12:31:45 AnMaster: no. trolling 12:33:09 hmm 12:33:10 0 1 [dup [+ printnl] dip swap] loop 12:33:22 println = .n, I guess, it's common enough 12:33:32 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop 12:33:40 wtf is that? 12:33:53 some forth like language I think 12:34:01 considering it is doing what seems to be stack operations 12:34:10 I'm not very familiar with forth though 12:34:24 a language i'm making yeah 12:34:34 tusho, stack based I suspect? 12:34:39 yes 12:34:48 and heavily influenced by forth? 12:35:02 but made for golfing? It seems rather compact 12:35:11 heavily influenced by forth and factor 12:35:19 not made for golfing, but made to be concise 12:35:20 Fortor 12:35:21 0 .n 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop 12:35:24 full fibonacci program 12:35:26 tusho, not familiar with factor 12:35:27 will output like this 12:35:27 0 12:35:28 1 12:35:28 1 12:35:28 Forktor 12:35:30 2 ... 12:35:30 etc 12:35:34 deveah: *g* 12:35:38 might call it spork 12:35:44 AnMaster: anyway i'll lead you through that prog 12:35:50 0 .n 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop -> first we print out 0 and a nelwine 12:35:54 tusho, it looks very interesting 12:35:59 then we put 0 and 1 on the stack (let's call them a and b) 12:36:05 then we put a lambda which we loop forever which does this: 12:36:13 duplicates the top entry (-> a b b) 12:36:15 or The Might Forkthor Masmerizer Language That's Actually Named Spork 12:36:21 *Mighty 12:36:33 tusho, then? 12:36:38 then "dips under" one element for a lambda: inside the lambda we have (a b), we add them together giving (c), then we output that and a newline 12:36:45 we come out of the dip so it's now (c b) 12:36:50 we swap that (b c) 12:36:54 and then it goes to the next loop 12:37:01 duplicates - (b c c), etc 12:37:02 tusho, very nice 12:37:02 forever 12:37:19 the equivalent python: 12:37:19 a, b = 0, 0 12:37:20 while True: 12:37:20 a, b = b, a + b 12:37:20 print a 12:37:22 Forktor4Evah 12:37:28 you should be able to make out the c from that, presumably 12:37:32 oh wait 12:37:36 that python needs 'print 0' in front of it 12:37:44 but yeah, very happy with that conciseness 12:37:55 tusho, I'm unable to parse "a, b = b, a + b" 12:38:08 AnMaster: it's "a = b, b = a + b" 12:38:13 except in the b assignment, the a is the old a 12:38:17 you can swap vars like this 12:38:19 a, b = b, a 12:38:23 nifty 12:38:34 AnMaster: that is, in C, you'd have to use a temp var 12:38:43 temp = a; a = b; b = tmp + b (b += tmp) 12:39:00 tusho, or asm( XCHG a, b ) ;P 12:39:04 :p 12:39:04 not portable 12:39:07 and not correct syntax 12:40:33 AnMaster: here's a cat program 12:40:34 >n [] [.n >n] while 12:40:37 >n = read line 12:40:56 the first argument - the block that sets up the condition - does nothing, so it evaluates the truth-value of the top thing on the stack 12:41:03 the body of the while outputs a line then reads in another one 12:41:09 (>n returns false on EOF) 12:41:44 a shorter version: 12:41:45 [.n] stdin each 12:41:53 looping through a file object goes through all the lines 12:41:54 as a convenience 12:43:38 er wait 12:43:40 stdin [.n] each 12:43:41 obviously 12:45:21 * tusho thinks about function definitions 12:45:25 hmmm 12:45:44 tusho, here is a cat program: 12:45:47 /bin/cat 12:45:48 ;P 12:45:56 AnMaster: oh shush you :D 12:46:03 actually: 12:46:14 #!/bin/sh 12:46:20 /bin/cat "$@" 12:46:30 and here's a quine 12:46:36 #!/bin/cat 12:46:45 tusho, yes I know 12:46:49 :p 12:47:13 AnMaster: behold 12:47:13 stdin reverse [.n] each 12:47:25 for input a\nb\nc\n, outputs c\nb\na\n 12:48:27 what about: 12:48:32 abc\ndef 12:48:41 def\nabc\n 12:48:44 ah 12:48:52 tusho, write a reverse char by char one please :D 12:48:58 AnMaster: okay 12:49:06 stdin chars reverse [.] each 12:49:20 tusho, hey you make up the syntax to make it as short as possible 12:49:23 no 12:49:24 that is cheating 12:49:24 I don't 12:49:27 it's not syntax 12:49:30 the semantics are well-defined 12:49:31 tusho, write specs please 12:49:36 AnMaster: no, i don't want to 12:49:40 tusho, where is chars and reverse defined 12:49:41 but I can tell you how that works 12:49:59 it has methods (which are really just functions specializing on the type of their arguments) 12:50:05 {stdin} is an opaque data structure 12:50:11 and, it implements all the list methods 12:50:13 tusho, reverse pairs of chars: so abcdef becomes efcdab 12:50:15 (as an IO object) 12:50:15 :P 12:50:23 'chars' just creates a "view" object on stdin 12:50:25 which has the same FD 12:50:30 but as a list, is of chars 12:50:31 instead of lines 12:50:36 heh ok 12:50:45 and that pair thing would require a bit of work 12:50:48 I'll have to think about it 12:50:58 tusho, yes, don't make up another method or view for it 12:51:20 i won't, but it occurs to me that 'grouping' a certain number of elements in an array into sub-arrays is a really common operation 12:51:29 i've seen it implemented as an extension to Array on ruby before 12:51:29 so 12:51:37 stdin chars 2 group [.] each 12:51:40 err 12:51:42 tusho, sure, but what about increasing size of groups? 12:51:42 stdin chars 2 group reverse [.] each 12:51:49 AnMaster: stdin chars 5 group reverse [.] each 12:52:15 tusho, the groups should increase while the program runs, according to the fibbonaci sequence 12:52:27 then you'll have to write your own group replacement 12:52:32 and I haven't decided on an elegant implementation for group yet 12:52:33 :P 12:52:34 tusho, example :P 12:52:46 once I figure out an elegant way of implementing group 12:52:52 tusho, I assume it is turing complete so you can do it I hope? 12:52:56 yes 12:52:57 of course 12:53:00 tusho, without any extensions 12:53:05 of course... 12:53:10 tusho, where would these stuff be implemented? 12:53:16 standard library 12:53:26 tusho, when will you write implementation? 12:53:30 when i want to 12:53:34 kk 12:57:09 AnMaster: any other programs you'd like me to write? :P 12:57:29 tusho, A ray tracer that renders to png? 12:57:36 :D how about no 12:57:40 hehe ok 12:57:45 though with enough stdlib it could be possible 12:57:46 maybe :P 12:57:53 cya 12:57:54 -!- deveah has left (?). 12:58:22 tusho, oh yes core.3d.raytrace function, with the core.image.png view? 12:58:28 or whatever you call them 12:58:32 heh shut up you 12:58:32 :) 12:58:45 understanding how 'stdin chars' works isn't that hard 12:58:50 tusho, indeed 12:58:56 I was just making fun of you 12:58:57 chars takes an IO object and makes its list methods work on characters instead of lines 12:58:58 :P 12:59:30 tusho, but no, can't think of any such programs now 12:59:37 I'm sure I will come up with other ones later 13:00:12 hmm 13:00:16 there should be a recursive patent 13:00:21 tusho, eh? 13:00:24 METHOD FOR PATENTING THIS METHOD 13:00:31 oh god 13:00:37 XD 13:00:39 it'd cause its own prior art! 13:00:51 haha 13:18:33 hmm 13:18:35 UL[ *(online_users.map {|u| LI[A(:href => "/users/#{u.id}")[u.name]]} ] 13:18:44 nifty little dom creation mini-lang 13:18:48 (in ruby) 13:19:00 TAGNAME[ child, child... ] 13:19:09 TAGNAME(:attr => val, ...)[child, child...] 13:19:28 hmm needs a ) before the ] 13:19:29 in my example 13:19:33 in fact 13:19:35 UL[ *online_users.map {|u| LI[A(:href => "/users/#{u.id}")[u.name]]} ] 13:19:59 the map is quite elegant, really - you're mapping the data directly on to the output html tree 13:20:09 which is essentially what web apps are 13:36:02 Deewiant, your last ccbi segfaults for me 13:36:07 on mycology 13:36:10 GOOD: closed socket with K 13:36:10 Segmentation fault 13:36:14 when running with trace 13:36:22 no debug info so I can't provide a traceback 13:36:26 meh, I should test on linux 13:36:28 I can guess the cause 13:36:33 Deewiant, happens without -t too 13:36:35 I'll see about it when I get home 13:37:25 (debug prompt) c 13:37:26 Enter cell value to break on: t 13:37:27 wtf? 13:38:09 ? 13:38:20 it fails 13:38:21 t isn't a value, for starters, it has to be an integer 13:38:31 Deewiant, you should mention that 13:38:45 why do you think it says "value" 13:38:45 :-P 13:38:52 't' is a value 13:38:57 so I could enter 't' then? 13:39:01 or (int)'t'? 13:39:15 't' is a value only in C-family languages 13:39:24 true 13:39:37 type error, got: Char, expected: Int 13:39:37 sorry 13:40:20 gone -> 13:41:33 (gdb) brkinst 't' 13:41:34 Breakpoint 1 at 0x40ce83: file /home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/interpreter.c, line 106. 13:42:19 actually an issue 13:42:26 need to check if it is in string mode too 13:43:46 define brkinst 13:43:46 break ExecuteInstruction if (opcode == $arg0 && ip->mode != 0x1) 13:43:46 end 13:43:48 :) 13:44:38 AnMaster: that is almost, almost ruby 14:00:18 tusho, what? 14:00:22 the gdb macro? 14:00:32 tusho, it is just a gdb macro for gods sake 14:03:09 I have a line of CSS that is 217015 characters long. Quiz: What does it do? 14:05:05 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:06:54 tusho, I can't guess 14:06:58 list all fonts? 14:07:09 AnMaster: It starts with background: url("data:image/png, 14:07:10 :) 14:07:19 oh I see 14:07:26 *evil grin* 14:07:30 tusho, I don't like that 14:07:36 what is wrong with the normal way? 14:07:43 AnMaster: this way is funny 14:07:44 :D 14:07:52 tusho, this way disabling images won't save any bw 14:07:59 bad on mobile connections 14:08:09 whatevs :D 14:08:24 tons of webpages are over 200kb 14:08:27 this one just happens to be really short 14:08:28 :D 14:08:49 AnMaster: its just one page 14:08:51 the homepage 14:09:10 blergh 14:09:31 AnMaster: if I get complaints I'll change it 14:09:59 also it guarantees to break IE 14:10:05 well 14:10:07 apart from v8 14:10:09 Tick: 75466 --- Index/IPs: 1/2 --- ID: 1 --- Stacks: 1 --- Mode: 14:10:09 1: tick = 75073 14:10:11 blergh 14:10:14 and old versions of opera too 14:10:24 well I guess a binary search on the tick id is the way to go now 14:10:52 Deewiant, is there any way to make the CCBI debugger break on a specific tick? 14:12:17 funge extension idea 14:12:18 GOOG 14:12:21 it lets you search fungespace 14:12:29 tusho, details? 14:12:31 e.g. if you had "test", you could pass "test" to GOOG and it'd give you the co-ords 14:12:35 and stuff like that 14:12:42 (list of all co-ords its at) 14:12:43 GOOGle? 14:12:46 yep 14:12:46 :P 14:12:59 google's stock symbol 14:13:00 tusho, well you need to write up proper specs 14:13:32 tusho, wtf is a stock symbol 14:13:35 I always wondered 14:13:51 what they 14:13:55 're listed as on the stock exchange 14:13:59 google's is GOOG, sun's is JAVA 14:14:00 etc 14:14:05 ms=MSFT 14:14:08 YHOO 14:14:21 why 14:14:32 why not just use google or sun or microsoft or whatever 14:16:44 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:22:58 AnMaster: it's ancient 14:23:10 tusho, yes and why? 14:23:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticker_symbol 14:28:18 Because the finance world is run by old crufty COBOL code. 14:28:34 -!- ErkiDerLoony has left (?). 14:28:36 It amuses me the symbols some use. 14:28:44 It's like domains, but there's more available. 14:28:54 And you can't use more than 4 letters. 14:29:06 { * 14:29:06 Formerly, a glance at a U.S. stock symbol and its appended codes would allow an investor to determine where a stock trades; however in July 2007, the SEC approved a plan to allow companies moving from the New York Stock Exchange to the Nasdaq to retain their three letter symbols. When first implemented, the change did not apply to companies with one or two letter symbols,[2] but subsequently any stock was able to move from the NYSE to the Nasdaq without chan 14:29:09 It amuses me to look at SCOXQ's stock prices. 14:29:14 OUR PRECIOUS ONE-TO-THREE-LETTER SYMBOLS 14:30:15 Sorry; that's SCOXQ.PK 14:31:35 heh 14:31:40 fucking sco 14:31:54 .PK? 14:32:01 AnMaster: {.PK - A Pink Sheet, indicating over-the-counter} 14:32:08 k 14:32:18 And {Q - in bankruptcy}. ;) 14:32:38 :D 14:32:49 They filed chapter 11 a year ago... 14:33:02 I'm surprised the bankruptcy court hasn't tried to push that into chapter 7. 14:33:06 SCO must be run by some real fucked up people if they think all of this is still a good idea. 14:38:39 chapter 7? 14:39:11 AnMaster: please, before demonstrating abject ignorance about the topic we're discussing, google it 14:50:00 Deewiant, I checked the tick count difference in ccbi at the beginning and ending of "a b", and I also checked the same difference in cfunge, result: same difference (5) 14:50:07 so why does mycology claim that is bad 14:51:34 I. Do. Not. Know. 14:52:11 Deewiant++ 14:52:25 Deewiant, is the tick count difference between start of t and end of thread testing always the same when it is all "good"? 14:52:28 the IPs are probably desynced somehow: as to why, I do not know 14:52:31 across interpreters 14:52:34 morning 14:52:38 I do not know 14:52:44 * oklopol is back in da city 14:52:47 they do not ask y for the tick count or anything like that 14:52:56 the y doesn't have it 14:53:12 that would be the reason then :-P 14:53:52 Deewiant, anyway I try a binary search to see when the difference between first t and some point to find where it first differs with tick/location 14:54:07 Deewiant, so in the ccbi debugger, what is the command to break after a certain number or ticks? 14:54:12 if there is any such command? 14:54:38 have you tried looking at the help 14:55:34 I have 14:55:43 and did you see 14:55:43 de(l)ay -- Set the tick until which to delay 14:55:46 ah 14:55:55 Deewiant, is that absolute or relative current? 14:56:10 absolute or otherwise it would be "Set the number of ticks to delay for" 14:56:20 oh well 14:57:13 Deewiant, have you seen Riley's new fingerprints? 14:57:24 possibly, which ones 14:58:00 EMEM, LONG, EXEC, REXP, MSGQ, STCK, SMEM, SMPH, TRGR 14:58:04 and maybe some more 14:58:10 then nope 14:58:16 http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html 14:58:18 some of those are mad 14:58:29 SMPH seems to be interface to POSIX semaphores 14:58:34 which is just plain mad IMO 14:59:47 bunch of Unix-only stuff I see 15:00:11 MSGQ/SMEM/SMPH 15:00:37 urgh 15:00:44 stupid firefox doesn't have colour adjustment profiles enabled by default 15:00:52 and bunch of stuff that looks like it would be a pain to implement :-P 15:00:52 so my photoshop-made image is brighter than the background it fades in to 15:00:55 and I don't know how to fix that 15:00:55 Deewiant, yep 15:01:05 i can't seem to make photoshop save the image _as it appears now_ 15:01:07 Deewiant, you mean STCK and LONG and EXEC? 15:01:10 without a colour profile 15:01:37 tusho, try saving it to a file format lacking support for profiles? 15:01:48 AnMaster: it'll just save it as the brighter version 15:01:56 tusho, and then? 15:02:01 i want the darker one 15:02:04 AnMaster: MACR and EXEC at least 15:02:05 (the one photoshop & safari show) 15:02:08 (with colour profiles) 15:02:21 Deewiant, well MACR would be a pain yes 15:02:37 Deewiant, are you going to write test suites for them? 15:02:39 my mini-funge is such a hack that I couldn't do MACR easily 15:02:48 AnMaster: only if I implement them 15:03:09 Deewiant, I will probably implement LONG, and maybe EXEC 15:03:19 STCK and SETS and EMEM should be easy 15:03:24 SETS yes 15:03:26 as well as LONG 15:03:31 STCK would be a pain with my stack system 15:03:37 Deewiant, even FRTH is currently a pain 15:03:40 still need to add 'D' to FILE... 15:03:45 Deewiant, D to file? 15:03:46 wtf? 15:03:53 AnMaster: he added it 15:03:54 have he extended it? 15:03:59 Deewiant, well that makes no sense 15:04:05 makes sense as it seems like an obvious omission 15:04:08 fingerprints are fixed when they are done 15:04:13 no they're not 15:04:14 who said that 15:04:15 nobody 15:04:15 exactly 15:04:16 and since we're the only implementers I figured it's fine 15:04:19 tusho: shaddup :-P 15:04:26 Deewiant: >:E 15:04:55 AnMaster: I told him to not go crazy with messing with earlier fingerprints and he said this was all he was thinking of changing so far 15:04:58 Deewiant, oh well, but that seems like it could cause issues 15:05:08 and like said, I figure it belongs and since we're the only implementers it's OK 15:05:17 Deewiant, you aren't 15:05:19 I implement FILE 15:05:23 you forgot that 15:05:32 AnMaster: yours is just a hyper-optimized port of ccbi to c 15:05:33 admit it 15:05:36 we as in includes you 15:05:37 tusho, it isn't 15:05:53 as in, people in this channel who can easily be poked to change their code :-P 15:06:22 Deewiant, will you add a mycology test for it? 15:07:02 yes 15:07:10 and I'll use it to remove the mycotmp files 15:07:27 so you finally don't have to remove them manually any more :-P 15:08:48 AnMaster: btw, http://www.rcfunge98.com/ works too 15:09:09 and oh yeah, FING is probably doable as well 15:09:30 Deewiant, EMEM would be doable 15:09:36 but I don't think I like it very much 15:09:39 yeah, I think I said so already 15:09:45 and yeah 15:09:50 it's a bit silly 15:09:54 hmm 15:09:55 Deewiant, and well FING I could easily do 15:09:57 you already have an infinite funge-space 15:09:58 shouldn't it be rcfunge98.org 15:09:59 :) 15:10:21 Deewiant, oooh but it can't be used for posix shared memory can it? ;P 15:10:25 also funge space is slower 15:10:27 XD 15:10:36 I'm not going to respond to either of those >_< 15:10:46 Deewiant, well it was a parody 15:10:52 I think those are silly reasons 15:11:38 Deewiant, would the D be equal to unlink() 15:11:55 ask Mike, not me 15:12:00 Dewi: (0gnirts -- )Delete specified file 15:12:03 bah 15:12:04 bloody tabs 15:12:06 remove() deletes a name from the file system. It calls unlink(2) for files, and rmdir(2) for directories. 15:12:08 sorry about that, Dewi 15:12:20 Deewiant, hehe 15:12:32 but yeah, I guess it would be 15:12:34 Dewi 15:12:39 Deewiant, I assume you use some irc client that is console based 15:12:40 certainly doesn't delete directories 15:12:48 as GUI ones would see pasted tab differently 15:13:00 Deewiant, then unlink() 15:13:07 not if they're not implemented to see the difference :-P 15:13:25 Deewiant, of course it doesn't delete the file, it unlinks the file, which may still leave the file around if there are other hardlinks 15:13:53 Deewiant: yea they would 15:14:03 tab = {KEYPRESS,\t} 15:14:05 AnMaster: and of course one can't truly delete the file 15:14:10 paste tab = {ADDCHAR,inputbox,\t} 15:14:23 tusho: yes, but like said, if they're implemented to treat those the same way... 15:14:30 which would be stupid, of course 15:14:31 Deewiant, indeed not overwrite 15:14:32 they wouldn't, though 15:14:36 but they could be 15:14:36 they'd have to explicitly duplicate the behaviour 15:14:48 and well technically you could do just about anything 15:14:55 but "⌘ undecided.domain 15:14:55 Introductions are a lot of fun, some crap, crapidoodle... mmm, crapidoodle. Introductions are a lot of fun, some crap, crapidoodle... mmm, crapidoodle. Introductions are a lot of fun, some crap, crapidoodle... mmm, crapidoodle. Introductions are a lot of fun, some crap, crapidoodle... mmm, crapidoodle. Introductions are a lot of fun, some crap, crapidoodle... mmm, crapidoodle. 15:14:55 unnamed wiki 15:14:55 unnamed wiki 15:14:57 unnamed wiki 15:14:59 unnamed wiki 15:15:01 I guess here is when I link to some crap about me and maybe info about this site. I don't know, this is placeholder. Blah blah blah de blah blah." 15:15:04 errr 15:15:06 stupid pasting 15:15:11 tusho, what the heck? 15:15:15 tusho: more likely they'd do something like move KEYPRESSes and ADDCHARs to a common handler 15:15:21 and nice paste, btw :-P 15:15:21 AnMaster: plz be to the reading: [[stupid pasting]] 15:15:36 -!- Deewiant has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | lol tornado brb | ☃ | mmm, crapidoodle.. 15:15:37 Deewiant: that would be monumentally ridiculous 15:15:49 Deewiant++ 15:16:01 tusho: not monumentally, but somewhat, yes. :-) 15:17:36 versioned fingerprints 15:17:38 that could be nice 15:17:50 AnMaster: btw, that segfault was a regression introduced in the last version and was a one-liner fix :-) 15:18:01 have refer to the last and -1.2.3 and such 15:18:06 Deewiant: i take it you don't like test internal suites :P 15:18:07 what do you think? 15:18:10 AnMaster: no 15:18:13 just use a seperate uri 15:18:18 http://foo.org/trds/1.0 15:18:19 http://foo.org/trds/1.1 15:18:19 etc 15:18:23 tusho, it would be up to the fingerprint writer of course 15:18:36 but you don't have to do anything special 15:18:39 he could say that http://foo.org/trds would point to the last? or couldn't he? 15:19:00 AnMaster: well, that'd just be making the http://foo.org/trds fingerprint load http://foo.org/trds/version 15:19:09 tusho, indeed 15:19:11 tusho: compiling this on linux is just enough of a pain due to my lack of my own linux computer that I usually can't be bothered to test it on linux 15:19:18 ah it was a linux bug 15:19:34 tusho, rather a bug in CCBI's code for linux I assume 15:19:37 well, the bug affects everything 15:19:45 the segfault only happened on linux though :-P 15:19:50 Deewiant, what was the issue? 15:20:06 yes 15:20:15 a 'delete' was no longer valid after a change I made in 1.0.11 15:20:20 so I just removed it 15:20:21 ah 15:20:45 which caused a memory corruption before you removed it? 15:21:10 Deewiant, suggestion: use tools like valgrind :D 15:21:18 valgrind doesn't work on d 15:21:24 what I think is that on windows, the return value of a tango call is allocated by 'new', but on linux it isn't 15:21:37 or, on windows, deleting something random is simply ignored 15:22:04 valgrind can be made to work on D, at least 15:22:17 it's been done 15:22:32 but it wouldn't really help 15:22:40 valgrind is a very useful tool 15:22:41 since all DMD-generated executables fail valgrind in some places 15:22:51 cue "DMD IS EVIL REWRITE IT" 15:23:04 and it's quite possible that the GC does tricks valgrind doesn't like 15:23:26 Deewiant, indeed, or the reverse 15:23:39 and in any case, changing my code can not possibly fix valgrind errors 15:23:45 Deewiant, for example when I compile cfunge with boehm-gc and then run it under valgrind, cfunge will segfault 15:23:51 that doesn't happen otherwise 15:23:51 since it's all through the GC which comes from the stdlib 15:24:18 Deewiant, can't you deselect GC? 15:24:25 no 15:24:32 that's odd 15:24:34 I could use tango without a GC, sure 15:24:38 but that would be monumentally stupid 15:24:46 hah true 15:24:47 CCmemleakBI 15:24:49 because I don't delete even close to all of what I allocate 15:26:43 AnMaster: new CCBI's up 15:26:44 cfunge does in debug build, but it doesn't free everything allocated at startup in release build 15:26:48 Deewiant, nice 15:27:03 yes, because freeing memory is sooo slow :-P 15:27:23 Deewiant, nah, but it does slow down a bit indeed. but that isn't the reason 15:27:32 Deewiant: it takes a positive number of miliseconds! 15:27:33 freeing like 20 000 separate mallocs() are slow 15:27:47 yeah, at least 20 milliseconds 15:27:55 *sigh* 15:28:00 Deewiant, anyway my FILE now does D 15:28:05 *sigh* he just doesn't get me and my speed... 15:28:10 why does nobody understand me? 15:28:26 Deewiant, tell me when mycology does it too 15:29:09 Deewiant, anyway EMEM will be painful, you need to index the entries if you will ever target 64-bit platforms 15:29:16 and have a 32-bit funge 15:30:06 no different from REFC 15:30:24 well except you can free stuff too 15:30:40 I meant the indexing 15:30:47 yeah 15:31:07 Deewiant, anyway another issue, LONG for 64-bit funges won't be very fun 15:31:21 __int_128 and such aren't portable 15:31:28 so I will have to do it on my own 15:31:46 or you can just be non-portable 15:32:01 and say LONG is only available for compilers which implement 128-bit integers 15:32:02 Deewiant, I am not now, I plan to support non-GCC in the future too 15:32:26 -!- tusho has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | mmm, crapidoodle. | ☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃. 15:32:30 as long as it is C99 and proper POSIX I can run it 15:32:36 I can use it* 15:32:48 + the mmap extension 15:33:03 which all POSIX I know of implement anyway 15:33:17 (and I really don't give a fuck about cygwin) 15:34:00 AnMaster: You realise that you care about things that 0.0000000000000000000000000000001% of people use, but not things that ~90% of people use. 15:34:17 tusho, more than 0.0000000000000000000000000000001% use linux 15:34:26 and in the eso lang community, much more 15:34:29 and more than that use windows 15:34:35 AnMaster: I am talking about ObscuroUnix2000. 15:34:37 It doesn't run gcc. 15:34:45 It only supports perfect POSIX and has a C99 compiler. 15:34:54 And you are being a fine, upstanding citizen and supporting them! Good on you. 15:34:56 tusho, Solaris for example? 15:35:00 However, you're annoying 90-fucking-% 15:35:04 *ignoring 15:35:11 It's ridiculous. 15:35:37 tusho, POSIX is an international standard, so is C99 15:35:49 Shut the hell up about your goddamn international standards. 15:35:54 SOME OBSCURE SYSTEM - 0% 15:35:56 WINDOWS - 90% 15:36:00 You care more about the former 15:36:02 and it is utterly stupid 15:36:25 "The family of POSIX standards is formally designated as IEEE 1003 and the international standard name is ISO/IEC 9945. The standards emerged from a project that began near 1985. Formerly known as IEEE-IX, the term POSIX was suggested by Richard Stallman in response to an IEEE request for a memorable name.[2]" 15:36:36 tusho, also I suppose it will work on OS X 15:36:42 but I don't have any OS X to try on 15:36:45 OS X, lovely. 4%. 15:36:45 it does work on FreeBSD 15:36:50 on Linux 15:36:53 on OpenBSD 15:36:56 THE FACT REMAINS: You are ignoring 90% and concentrating on 0% instead. 15:36:58 on NetBSD 15:37:01 This is a waste of time and effort. 15:37:05 which are the only systems I have 15:37:15 100-90=10 15:37:18 tusho, I don't have windows, so how could I test it? 15:37:25 navaburo, indeed 15:37:28 navaburo: SomeObscureUnix is not 10%. 15:37:32 The 10% is heavily fragmented. 15:37:38 tusho, anyway I care about Linux and such 15:37:43 which is much more 15:37:51 posix is what binds them togeather 15:37:52 Linux is less than OS X. 15:37:54 1% or so. 15:37:55 tusho, at least i don't make it RiscOS or whatever only! 15:37:56 ;P 15:38:04 which is what !Befunge almost did 15:38:12 navaburo, indeed! 15:38:21 navaburo, so this means all those 10% 15:38:21 except that !Befunge runs on windows fairly fine 15:38:22 You should still concentrate on Windows instead of a mythical system that you don't even have to test on. 15:38:35 cfunge - Bringing Befunge-98 to the minority! 15:38:38 * AnMaster ducks 15:38:46 AnMaster: ccbi already works on linux, pop 15:38:49 and I imagine OS X too 15:38:57 tusho, well not 64-bit linux 15:38:59 anyway 15:39:16 tusho, I DON'T HAVE WINDOWS SO HOW THE FUCK COULD I TEST ON IT!? 15:39:21 I don't plan to use warez 15:39:24 if that is what you suggest 15:39:28 wine 15:39:36 and possibly make Deewiant even more your slave 15:39:38 Deewiant, gcc cross compile to wine? 15:39:41 i hear he has a windows installation. 15:39:42 tusho, eh what? 15:39:42 AnMaster: yes 15:39:59 you do realize that the whole goal of wine is that you can test on it and then your stuff will run on windows 15:40:04 Deewiant, a few years ago people would have laughed at that. Amazing how wine has come along isnt it? 15:40:11 navaburo, indeed 15:40:16 and if GCC doesn't cross compile to wine, you can get VC or whatever. 15:40:17 So yes. 15:40:21 it does Deewiant 15:40:23 you just use mingw 15:40:25 Deewiant, nop, because VC doesn't do C99 15:40:38 navaburo: oh? I would have said that even a few years ago. But then, I've never used wine. :-) 15:40:39 use mingw 15:40:43 it's gcc 15:40:48 and you can compile mingw on linux 15:40:48 AnMaster: MinGW, DMC, others... 15:40:55 * navaburo finds it hilarious that there is a standards debate going on in #esoteric 15:40:55 tusho, and yes, quite a few parts work under mingw 15:40:56 and use it to compile for windows 15:40:58 I tested some time ago 15:40:59 there is more than one C compiler for windows 15:41:00 and then run it under wine 15:41:03 AnMaster: THAT is how you test on windows. 15:41:08 when I did have access to windows 15:41:10 for a limited time 15:41:16 you do have access to windows 15:41:20 we just told you exactly how 15:41:21 tusho, no longer 15:41:25 I had back then 15:41:29 I don't have any longer 15:41:30 mingw cross compiler + wine 15:41:30 navaburo: oh, tusho and AnMaster do stuff like this all the time. :-) 15:41:32 it wasn't my computer 15:41:37 tusho, not wine 15:41:41 AnMaster: and why not 15:41:45 this is its whole purpose 15:41:50 I had temp access to a computer with win xp, mingw and msys 15:41:52 + cmake 15:41:55 i know 15:41:57 but you still have windows 15:41:59 in the form of mingw+wine 15:42:05 well yes, possibly 15:42:12 "possibly" 15:42:18 but I can't be arsed to set it up 15:42:18 aka "no, because." 15:42:18 also 15:42:27 give windows environ and mmap() 15:42:28 oh, i like that one 15:42:29 then sure 15:42:31 and fork() 15:42:40 "EXCUSE!" "Trivial solution to the excuse." ":( CBA" 15:43:13 tusho, also I hate win32api 15:43:18 no way I will ever use that in cfunge 15:43:20 you'd hardly need to use it 15:43:22 there are these things called libraries 15:43:27 Deewiant++ also 15:43:27 which do this thing called abstraction 15:43:32 tusho, how do you get environment variables then? 15:43:35 which implies this thing called portability 15:43:40 AnMaster: it has getenv, does it now? 15:43:41 *not 15:43:45 if not, what Deewiant said 15:44:27 tusho, maybe, I just used extern char ** environ; 15:44:32 tusho: doesn't suffice even if it does since it doesn't have putenv (or setenv, I can't remember which is only POSIX) 15:44:36 AnMaster: lol. 15:44:55 tusho, valid POSIX, but I guess I will have to mess up the code and use a more complex solution 15:44:55 Deewiant: does AnMaster do that? 15:45:11 do what? 15:45:12 tusho, I would if I implement EVAR at some time 15:45:17 AnMaster: yes, you can't just abide to standards and expect it to magically work on everything 15:45:25 strange I know 15:45:26 http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html#EVAR 15:45:26 ah, he doesn't implement EVAR 15:45:30 Deewiant, not yet 15:45:32 it is planned 15:45:37 AnMaster: so it's one #ifdef WINDOWS 15:45:44 and like 3 lines of gnarly windows api call 15:45:45 #ifdef __WIN32__ 15:45:47 static const char * environ[] = { 15:45:47 "SYSTEM=windows crap", 15:45:47 "SUPPORTS=not environ at least, get a sane system if you want this to work.", 15:45:47 "REALLY=we mean it, cfunge on windows is NOT SUPPORTED." 15:45:47 }; 15:45:51 #else 15:45:51 # ifndef _GNU_SOURCE 15:45:52 extern char **environ; 15:45:54 # endif 15:45:56 #endif 15:45:58 XD 15:45:59 nice flood 15:46:04 tusho, thanks 15:46:09 does it look good on me? 15:46:10 ;P 15:46:11 you could just do 15:46:15 #ifdef __WIN32__ 15:46:17 #error HAHAHAHAHHAHA 15:46:18 #endif 15:46:59 tusho, anyway there are couple of fingerprints that need fork() and such, and really, I got no clue how to set up pipes and such to talk to perl on windows... 15:47:13 win32 api is not something I intend to learn 15:47:19 use a goddamn library 15:47:26 besides, it's not learning the win32 api 15:47:31 it's learning like THREE FUNCTIONS 15:47:44 tusho, point me to such a library 15:48:03 * AnMaster waits 15:48:08 i don't know 15:48:10 google for it 15:48:13 *shrug* 15:48:18 oh, of course 15:48:19 that'd be work 15:48:26 it might even take 60 seconds 15:48:37 * AnMaster goes back debugging threading issue 15:49:46 * navaburo has been playing with finite brainfuck, quite joyfully 15:49:53 -!- dogface_ has joined. 15:50:16 navaburo, oh what is that? 15:50:40 brainfuck with a very small memory 15:50:50 navaburo: are you new here? :) 15:50:55 navaburo, ah, so a limited interpreter basically? 15:51:04 navaburo, not Turing complete 15:51:10 right 15:51:13 well no implementation is of course 15:51:26 I should come up with a complete set of rewrite rules for BF. 15:51:26 right, so why make it seem Turing-complete? 15:51:40 why not just cut to the chase and use 3 cells of memory? 15:51:48 navaburo: 'cause then you can't do a mandelbrot 15:51:52 or game of life 15:51:53 :) 15:52:10 navaburo: Of course, if they're bignums, then you can just use 2. 15:52:15 tusho, you can do anything supposing your cells can hold sufficiently large numbers 15:52:16 And it's memory-bound once more. 15:52:22 navaburo: that's still making it seem TC 15:52:23 tusho, mmm, i think you need 3 cells 15:52:26 No real-world implementation of anything is Turing-complete. Still, computer programmers love pretending things are. 15:52:31 you can't have infinitely-sized numbers, navaburo 15:52:35 it's the same problem as infinite memory cells 15:52:48 just sufficiently large for your application 15:52:55 dogface_: what do you mean? 15:53:01 navaburo: then why not just have as many cells as you need for your app 15:53:10 find the normal form for a bf program? :) 15:53:11 because it is more esoteric this way 15:53:51 navaburo: not really 15:53:55 it's just more difficult 15:54:48 i guess it is a matter of taste. but more importantly, i was concerned with the minimum space complexity for an algorithm in finite bf, and i think it's 3. 15:54:52 oklopol: what do I mean by BF rewrite rules? 15:54:57 er, i ment maximum 15:55:09 oklopol, oh do tell 15:55:50 its not navaburo 15:55:58 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minsky_machine 15:56:01 A couple Thue-style rules to transform any BF program into any other with the same I/O behavior, considering halting to be a form of output. 15:56:16 does anyone know where I could find info on how you do arithmetics on a number larger than the size the compiler supports? 15:56:21 say 128 bit integers 15:56:22 or whatever 15:56:35 AnMaster: look up on how cpus do addition 15:56:40 then just do that on a struct with multiple ints 15:56:44 Bignum libraries? 15:56:50 dogface_: bounded 15:57:00 navaburo: 2-cell BF with bignums = TC 15:57:17 Did AnMaster say e wanted bounded? 15:57:24 dogface_: I know what he's doing it for. 15:57:25 dogface_, I need exactly twice the size of int32_t or int64_t depending on implementation 15:57:27 (Befunge interp.) 15:57:32 dogface_, and tusho knows what I want it for 15:57:39 "long integers are 2 cell integers, if the interpreter's cell size is 32, then long integers are 64-bits." 15:57:40 dogface_: and by complete you mean that two programs identical in behavior would become the same resulting program, which would be in its normal form? 15:57:45 well that is easy, but I got 64-bit cells 15:57:51 so I need 128-bit integers 15:57:57 which I need to emulate somehow 15:58:09 dogface_, also you are a nomic player I assume? 15:58:17 tusho, thanks 15:58:20 AnMaster: what's "long long" with 64-bit 15:58:23 AnMaster: yep. :-) 15:58:28 Deewiant, that is 64-bit sitll 15:58:30 still* 15:58:33 Old Spivak pronouns are ours! 15:58:36 meh, that kinda sucks 15:58:38 dogface_: you should join ##nomic 15:58:38 :D 15:58:52 dogface_, I stoppped playing nomics some time ago 15:58:53 anyway 15:59:00 dogface_: you should answer me! 15:59:04 oklopol: just a moment. 15:59:09 (AnMaster's only nomic was ircnomic, which I founded with ais523 and ihope) 15:59:11 dogface_, I need to figure out how do do maths on 128-bit signed integers 15:59:15 (In april.) 15:59:22 tusho, yes indeed 15:59:23 AnMaster: what's hard about that? 15:59:35 oklopol, I got no clue how to do it 15:59:37 oklopol: well, they'd be nondeterministic and all, so they wouldn't be able to produce a normal form on ordinary computers, of course. 15:59:48 AnMaster: do you know how to calculate 253*5642 15:59:49 ? 15:59:58 oklopol, by hand on paper sure 16:00:08 or using C routines 16:00:23 AnMaster: do that on-paper version, and generalize base, then? 16:00:43 oklopol, hrrm, seems suboptimal, I found some routines in freebsd kernel for doing it 16:00:53 maybe I can adapt (read: steal) those 16:01:05 BSD license :) 16:01:18 Good luck being faster than the paper methods without using fast Fourier transforms. 16:01:34 eh? 16:01:35 And with only two integers, I highly doubt the FFTs will get you anywhere. 16:01:48 dogface_: not faster asymptotically, just faster 16:02:34 dogface_, I just want to do +-*/%, bitshift and conversion from/to ascii 16:02:44 http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html#LONG 16:02:55 AnMaster: you can hardcode all carries 16:03:20 oklopol, what sucks is knowning that x86 puts the carry if any in the carry flag in the rFLAGS register 16:03:26 and there is no way to get at it from C ;P 16:03:46 :) 16:03:49 Hope that the compiler is smart. 16:03:54 tusho, does the proof of 2-cell BF with bignums = TC use Minsky machines? 16:04:00 it won't be that smart 16:04:01 navaburo: yes 16:04:03 it is a minsky machine 16:04:12 it's pretty trivial 16:04:16 dogface_, not that smart that it can figure it out from a struct of two integers 16:04:24 Mm. 16:04:50 A smarter compiler is needed, then. :-P 16:05:18 i'm gonna go buy something fun -> 16:07:44 dogface_: You are ihope. 16:09:45 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/sys/libkern/Attic/subdi3.c?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain 16:10:23 that gives me the general idea of how to do it at least 16:10:45 tusho: I'm glad you noticed, because otherwise, you wouldn't have been able to notify me that you were going to start work on the proposal system for Normish. :-P 16:11:15 I do have a set of ideas I call "Not the Tallest of Orders". I may implement them. 16:11:52 Shaddap dogface_, Normish will be like 5 years of thinking and then like 2 seconds of implementing enlightenment itself 16:11:52 :P 16:13:11 http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/sys/libkern/quad.h?rev=1.19;content-type=text%2Fplain 16:15:37 tusho, what is normish? 16:15:44 AnMaster: a nomic 16:15:48 played on a linux box 16:15:54 tusho, how does it work? 16:15:59 unicorn magic 16:16:02 ....... 16:16:23 people submit proposals as scripts 16:16:25 and vote on them 16:16:26 if they're accepted 16:16:28 they're run as root 16:16:33 simple as. except the current proposal system sux0r 16:16:38 and i'm going to write the successor 16:16:41 very soon 16:16:47 just been busy with other stuffs 16:17:14 tusho, seems interesting 16:17:27 tusho, and the goal is to get root powers? 16:17:31 tusho: as punishment for taking so ling, I've devised a very complicated new proposal and player system. :-P 16:17:37 nomics don't have goals, AnMaster 16:17:38 generally. 16:17:46 dogface_: oh shush you, I've been really busy 16:17:46 :( 16:17:53 tusho, reaching a certain number of points? 16:18:01 The goal is to have fun. If you do bad things with root powers, you get... disliked. 16:18:02 AnMaster: no purpose by default! 16:18:07 true 16:18:16 tusho, but this specific normish then? 16:18:27 AnMaster: NO DEFINED PURPOSE 16:18:29 IT'S ADDED BY PROPOSAL 16:18:30 nice 16:18:31 OR NOT ADDED AT ALL! 16:18:33 jeez 16:18:34 :-) 16:18:36 same with ircnomic 16:18:38 same with agora 16:18:41 heck agora has no goal 16:18:42 tusho, so no such proposal have been made? 16:18:47 AnMaster: it isn't up yet 16:18:53 I mean, it is, but the proposal system sucks 16:18:53 oh ok 16:18:58 and as far as I know it doesn't have much activity 16:19:03 since everyone's waiting for my proposal system 16:19:03 :p 16:19:22 If it has any activity... well, I think it's had no activity for at least a week. 16:19:34 Sgeo, ais523 and Norgg would have to collaborate to make something happen. 16:19:43 Or I could implement it 16:19:48 And it'd magically gain all the activity :P 16:19:52 (ok this injoke is silly :D) 16:20:00 AnMaster, help me (or tusho) with my ideas. :-P 16:20:05 But srsly. I've almost finished stuff. 16:20:05 I should tell you what they are. 16:20:08 Proposal system: soon. 16:20:09 Cool. 16:20:11 And yes, but in ##nomic 16:20:49 AnMaster: to ##nomic with ye. :-) 16:20:49 dogface_, nah 16:20:50 no time 16:21:00 Okay. 16:28:25 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:51:42 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:01:45 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 17:22:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:36:00 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:36:19 To ###nomic with ye. 17:47:30 -!- lament has joined. 17:49:28 -!- Corun has joined. 18:03:31 pikhq: ? 18:10:39 lol nerds 18:11:54 yeah lol em 18:12:36 pikhq: Oh, you were talking about the double-hash. 18:12:38 It's correct. 18:12:39 Freenode policy. 18:12:51 policy for what 18:12:52 bsmntbombdood: kind of an ironic thing to say in here huh 18:12:59 I know. 18:13:03 Just joking. ;) 18:13:03 Deewiant: channel names 18:13:14 tusho: so what's the difference between # and ## 18:13:16 since we don't own nomic, we have to have ##nomic (pronounced "about nomic") 18:13:23 ah 18:13:25 wordpress can have #wordpress beacuse it's official 18:13:28 but it's ##windows 18:14:14 We do, on the other hand, own Esoteric. 18:14:17 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:15:26 lament: of course 18:16:10 not that it matters 18:19:44 nothing matters 18:20:47 apart from the fact that nothing matters 18:20:58 (apart from the fact that nothing matters (apart from the fact that nothing matters (apart from the fact that nothing matters (apart from the fact that nothing matters (apart from the fact that nothing matters ... 18:22:40 El dato que nada importa. 18:33:37 Every nickname is a religion, you know. "Sgeo" says we should worship the Earth, "ihope" says we should worship Apple, "ais523" says we should worship 523. 18:34:06 :-P 18:34:06 dogface_: And tusho? 18:34:27 "tusho" says that we cannot assume anything is true unless we've seen it with our own eyes. 18:34:30 Actually, "Sgeo" says we should worship geometry or something. Apparently Sgeo stands for Sacred Geometry 18:34:43 No, it stands for Sir Gay, Oh! 18:34:51 Oh, I thought the "geo" meant Earth. 18:35:12 Well, doesn't "geometry" literally mean "measuring the Earth" or something? 18:35:32 http://www.charlesgilchrist.com/SGEO/index.html 18:36:14 haha 18:36:19 oh cranks 18:38:31 "oklopol"... hmm, that's a tricky one, as it's in some other language, I believe. 18:38:50 dogface_: actually it's meaningless 18:38:51 I believe 18:38:55 If my knowledge of Proto-Germanic is correct, that nick contains many indications that we should worship the government. 18:39:13 seems a bit incorrect for oklopol 18:39:14 :P 18:39:15 "dogface" advocates atheism. 18:39:20 Cool. 18:39:23 i don't believe in governments 18:39:23 Well, what do you think "pol" means? 18:39:31 city 18:39:35 oklopol: in the literal sense as you don't believe they exist? 18:39:40 You see it in words like "police" and "politics". 18:39:40 or in the "we don't need one" sense 18:39:43 i hope it's the former 18:39:45 Oh, "city"? Hmm. 18:39:45 i refuse to admit any such beliefs 18:40:00 -!- dogface_ has changed nick to dogfreud_. 18:40:01 oklopol sounds mesoamerican to me 18:40:08 oklopotl 18:40:46 tusho: the former was definitely what i meant 18:40:52 Ah, you do not THINK you believe in governments. I know from experience with a patient of mine that the names we adopt ALWAYS reveal our true beliefs. 18:40:55 oklopol: awesome 18:41:07 Cacahuate. 18:41:30 -!- dogfreud_ has changed nick to dogface_. 18:41:42 Or is it "cacahuete"? 18:41:44 dogface_: what about bsmntbombdood 18:41:48 what 18:41:55 he's a terrorist 18:42:01 Exactly. 18:42:13 thought so 18:42:21 He practices hate and extremism. And stereotype. 18:42:31 dogface_: "lament" is about lamenting, presumably? 18:42:55 By no means! 18:43:05 It's actually mutated Spanish for "the mind". 18:43:22 (Or "the mint".) 18:43:24 how do you get "atheism" out of "dogface" 18:43:33 Deewiant: God is ugly. 18:43:40 ah, of course 18:43:42 so obvious 18:43:43 hah 18:43:52 actually dogface is an insult at bush 18:43:56 So clearly, lament's belief is that the universe exists only in our minds. 18:43:58 though generally he's compared to a monkey 18:44:05 dogface_: Pantheism? 18:44:07 er wait no 18:44:10 urgh, I always mix up terms 18:44:12 Neither "dogface" nor "monkeyface" contains a "w". 18:44:13 You know. Thingy. 18:44:22 dogface_: Oh, of course. dog/god. 18:44:22 Seems like "pantheism" would mean "everything is God". 18:44:26 Yes. 18:44:27 Yeah. 18:44:28 It does. 18:44:35 A pantheistic ... thing view would be funny/ 18:44:35 you got it backwards, dogface_ 18:44:42 i believe that our minds only exist in the universe 18:44:46 The universe only exists in my head, but it's everyone's head. 18:44:57 Don't make me /nick dogfreud_ again. 18:45:08 dogface_: Cigar. 18:45:14 Penis. 18:45:34 dogface_: You need to be dogfreud_ to say that 18:45:41 Quiet, tusho, there are 12-year-olds in here. 18:46:00 Oh, right. 18:46:06 The nick "Deewiant" is obvious, if you take of the "ant" and treat "Deewi" as a verb. 18:46:14 Deewi = dewy 18:46:16 as an adjective 18:46:21 Well, it's not an adjective. 18:46:30 So it's an ant that has a lot of dew on it. 18:46:41 and Dewi? 18:46:44 The "ant" just indicates that it's a verb. 18:46:49 Deewiant: He has a lot of dew on himself. 18:47:00 :-D 18:47:03 The "Dee" is the prefix "de-", and given "wi", I think Deewiant is an advocate of celibacy. 18:47:18 "wi"? 18:48:19 Who was it that thought it would be cruel to bring children into the world because the world would end soon? 18:53:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:53:48 * oerjan thought his client was broken there for a moment. 18:53:54 oerjan: why 18:53:56 the topic? 18:54:00 yeah 18:54:02 :D 18:54:09 what does it show as for you 18:54:52 XC lots of times, the last two inverted 18:55:22 The nick "oerjan" says we are living in a false vacuum which could be broken by human experiments at any moment. 18:55:53 * oerjan actually doubts that 18:56:04 the human experiments part, that is 18:56:22 I got a bunch of XCs when tusho set the topic, but not in the topic itself 18:56:37 hey dogface_, do u guess the personality of a person using his nick ? :p 18:56:43 I just get ☠18:56:46 lots of them 18:56:52 Mony: no, I'm interpreting people's nicks as religions. 18:57:02 oh... ok... 18:57:07 and, with my nick ? 18:57:21 Your nick says that there is one God, and that that God is the number 0. 18:57:21 Mony: Yours is the religion of devotion to money. 18:57:22 Obviously. 18:57:26 Oh, I prefer dogface_'s. 18:57:31 lol 18:57:31 Is God's name "vab"? 18:57:37 yeah 18:57:37 tusho: pff. Yeah, right. 18:57:55 -!- Mony has changed nick to M0ny. 18:57:59 1337 powa :p 18:58:08 -!- Deewiant has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 1337 powa. 18:58:31 finally an accurate topic 19:00:03 dogface_'s nick is more the animist spirit type, i think, believing obviously in a dog totem 19:00:49 2008-08-07 20:39:14 ( dogface_) "dogface" advocates atheism. 19:01:42 -!- tusho has quit ("And then-"). 19:01:48 dogface_ has spoken. 19:02:01 -!- tusho has joined. 19:02:06 -!- olsner has joined. 19:02:17 -!- tusho has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric http://tunes.org/~. 19:02:27 To be loved, a whole life long. 19:02:48 should I put rule 110 in the topic again? 19:02:52 Yep. 19:02:59 Hmm. 19:03:02 Put the Four Axioms in it, too. 19:03:05 What is Wolfram's Rule 34? :P 19:03:08 also, since my name was adopted by my parents, not me, i think it may say less about my religion. except that i'm kind of person who uses his real name on irc 19:03:31 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:CA_rule_2.png 19:03:32 tusho: use the binary force luke 19:03:35 Good luck with Rule 34 of THAT. 19:03:36 oerjan: your religion states that the path to enlightenment is to be proud of oneself. 19:04:15 hm, you may be getting closer there 19:04:24 dogface_: It was actually a bot that ran the cellular automata in the topic. 19:04:33 _too_ close. i may have to kill you now. 19:04:35 Every second it'd step the topic a bit further (obviously I'd set it to 30 minutes or whatever) 19:04:48 oerjan: would that make you proud of yourself? 19:05:34 hm a paradox that 19:07:07 that's more the running-away-from-enlightenment path. of course many people are following that one. 19:12:47 lament: approval for cellular automata topic bot? 19:12:52 Changes topic once every 30 mins or 1 hr 19:14:23 -!- dogface_ has changed nick to lamenth. 19:14:25 I approve. 19:14:28 -!- lamenth has changed nick to dogface_. 19:15:02 lament: But do YOU approve?! 19:34:46 IDEA: 19:34:55 Make an esoteric linux/unix distribution. 19:35:08 Hopefully, it should be bad enough to make Ken Thompson commit suicide. 19:35:11 (Don't say Ubuntu.) 19:39:11 now what _is_ the swahili for "incomprehensible"? :D 19:40:09 hm wait that should be zulu 19:44:49 comprehensible v. -qedakala; -qondakala 19:46:05 ooh, zulu has negative inflection of verbs 19:51:47 hm, uhlelo means both system, list and programme 19:51:48 -!- dogface_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:52:55 n. 11/10, does that mean the verb should use inflection 11 with an uhlelo singular subject? 19:54:16 conclusion: aluqondakali means "It is not comprehensible" for a class 11 noun, like uhlelo might be 19:54:28 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:55:00 -!- Judofyr has joined. 19:55:19 (http://isizulu.net/?aluqondakali ) 19:56:34 ah indeed class 10 seems to be only for plurals 19:56:54 (http://isizulu.net/?aziqondakali ) 19:57:11 -!- Judofyr has quit (Client Quit). 19:57:41 although since uhlelo may also mean a single program, as well as system, both might be appropriate 19:59:43 tusho: there's your OS name 19:59:53 (or distribution) 20:00:00 my? 20:00:02 i never said me 20:00:03 :D 20:02:18 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:04:04 combine a C-to-BF compiler + BF interpreter and you can build a fully BF-based system 20:04:40 So, C2BF + Egobfi. 20:04:59 In other words: Gregor has a fully BF-based system's development environment. :D 20:06:02 running on a simulated processor in Javascript, iirc 20:06:29 I wonder how long a linux kernel would take to load in that environment 20:06:40 Well, Gregor *could* probably manage to get Egobfi running in JSMIPS... 20:07:16 GregorR: You simply must do so... As a demonstration of your coding might. 20:07:16 :p 20:08:33 what I would like is an infinite tower of recursive interpreters, such that e.g. the underlying jsmips is actually interpreted by itself by ways of jsmips/spidermonkey/c2bf/egobfi/jsmips :D 20:09:04 fix (jsmips . spidermonkey . c2bf . egobfi) -- in pseudo-haskell 20:10:07 if we take Moore's law into account, it should work :D 20:11:05 C2BF sure as hell won't compile anything useful... Yet. 20:11:10 -!- revcompgeek has joined. 20:11:15 -!- revcompgeek has left (?). 20:11:40 I've been thinking about building a (linux) distribution where everything is llvm:ized 20:11:58 guess i'll show the active peeps my concatenative lang 20:11:58 0 .n 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop 20:12:03 ^ infinite fibonacci program 20:12:49 user-space that is, basically just a normal linux kernel, a hardware-specific llvm jit interpreter, and then every binary is just llvm bitcode files 20:16:09 OMFG; Gregor wrote a 9th opus. 20:16:19 ? 20:16:29 http://codu.org/music.php 20:16:38 oh ha 20:21:44 -!- Judofyr has joined. 20:23:52 * Sgeo growls at the fact that it's .mid 20:24:23 Hi Judofyr 20:24:29 Hi :) 20:26:45 * Sgeo wonders if listening to the growing rendering might be a bad idea 20:27:24 hi Judofyr 20:30:06 what's wrong with midi Sgeo 20:30:35 you never know what it's supposed to sound like 20:31:07 tusho, can't keep timidity running, when I do, the MIDIs always stutter or something. The sound card or whatever doesn't do MIDI, apparently. So I wrote something to pass through MIDI files to timidity 20:31:08 plus, the Roland VSTi crashes foobar2000 so I have to convert them to .oggs :-P 20:31:30 * tusho has a real mt-32, bitches 20:31:31 :D 20:31:44 * Sgeo has a lot of files on his computer with filenames ending with .mid.ogg 20:32:51 tusho: well, for /you/ there's nothing wrong with midi then >_< 20:32:59 * Deewiant renames foo.mid to foo.ogg 20:33:06 Deewiant: It's not plugged in, though. 20:33:13 meh 20:33:13 I don't know if I could even plug it in to an iMac. 20:33:18 what a waste 20:33:24 Deewiant: I have no power adapter for it. 20:33:27 I bought it like 2-3 years ago. :P 20:33:31 It is rather dusty. 20:33:32 >_< 20:33:35 Do you want it? 20:33:35 :P 20:33:47 if you can deliver it here, and for free :-P 20:33:53 Hmm. :P 20:38:06 * oerjan _thinks_ you are both within the EU, at least 20:38:22 practically next door, that 20:38:55 quite. 20:38:58 I also have a theremin. 20:39:02 It cost, uh, £200? 20:39:24 theremins are supposed to be built, not bought :-) 20:41:34 Deewiant: shaddap 20:41:40 it's a moog and all :P 20:41:42 ;-P 20:41:52 aren't moogs like the only ones worth getting anyway 20:42:03 yea :P 20:42:10 * oerjan smells a citation needed 20:42:19 its an etherwave though, not one of those fancy wooden ones 20:42:21 well, it's wooden 20:42:22 but :P 20:42:35 (on WP:Theremin) 20:43:13 actually maybe just delete it 20:43:32 what 20:43:37 oerjan: what 20:43:37 why 20:43:40 when 20:43:46 theremins are hugely popular 20:43:47 whence 20:43:59 do you really want to delete that article oerjan 20:45:37 no, just the last change :D 20:46:16 which one 20:46:26 "One of the greatest theremin players resides in League City, Texas. he is 20 years old and has been playing for 21 years." 20:46:30 ha 20:46:37 ... 20:46:37 wait 20:46:42 that doesn't even make sense 20:46:47 did he play it in the womb 20:46:48 oh wait you're right 20:47:08 :-D 20:47:11 i didn't notice it was 1 year _more_ than he'd lived 20:47:22 Just add [citation needed] 20:47:27 no 20:47:27 Deewiant++ 20:47:30 do it oerjan 20:47:30 :D 20:47:31 i already undid it 20:47:34 awww 20:47:43 I'll undo your undo and add [citation needed] 20:47:51 although i did remark it needed a citation 20:52:23 maybe you _could_ play it in the womb - it doesn't need to be touched, after all :D 20:53:10 maybe he rounded the 21 years but not his age, as is standard 20:53:19 i.e. he's 20 years and 10 months old, or whatever 20:57:43 Hmm. 20:58:02 For the 2-cell unbounded integer brainfuck - which is TC - 20:58:06 what minimalisations can you do? 20:59:56 2-cell? is that enough? 21:00:32 hm 21:00:37 yep oerjan 21:00:40 it's a minsky machine 21:00:41 I believe 21:00:50 that seems plausible 21:01:03 so you encode the tape in a single digit and use the other cell as the machine's state? 21:01:05 i'd have thought you needed one more bf cell to simulate minsky cells 21:01:11 s/digit/cell 21:01:12 RodgerTheGreat: pretty sure, yeah 21:01:17 but yeah, I wonder what instruction minimalisations you could do with that 21:01:36 it'd be pretty awful to use for anything nontrivial. :| 21:01:45 but I can certainly see how it'd be TC 21:02:20 oerjan: what would you need a third cell for? 21:02:22 i'd think the bf program position would be the state 21:03:04 hmm 21:03:12 to be able to do all the IO bf programs can you'd need a 3rd cell 21:03:19 (for tmp storage to extract a single cell to output) 21:03:29 i did not consider IO there 21:03:42 i think 2 is TC and 3 for IO-complete 21:03:47 i just think simulating a tape with 2 BF cells seems too hard 21:03:52 you might actually need temp storage just to extract cells for manipulation, really. 21:04:08 ok, 3-4 cells then 21:04:14 recall that a tape needs 2 stacks 21:04:23 either way, I wonder what instruction minimalisation we could do when applying these restrictions 21:04:58 let's prove it ourselves. How would we go about encoding a tape in a small number and then accessing and altering specific cells using BF commands? 21:05:24 * tusho shrugs. :P 21:05:30 and that should be "a small number of cells" 21:05:30 i think a stack can be emulated with 2 BF cells. 21:05:50 2 stacks, i.e. a tape, requires 3 if you can share one cell as tempspace 21:06:01 I imagine you'd do an algorithm similar to how you extract the digits of a number, unless there's an easier way 21:06:07 prime encoding or something, perhaps 21:06:26 binary digits is enough 21:06:33 I know that 21:06:38 gives a stack of bits 21:06:46 I'm talking about implementation, not theory 21:09:26 hm the wiki is not helpful, it talks about 5-register minsky machines 21:11:23 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 21:17:08 * Sgeo <3 the KQ music 21:18:53 -!- pikhq has left (?). 21:21:04 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 21:24:38 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 21:37:39 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:38:59 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 21:44:21 cellular automata topic bot? 21:46:20 aka catbot, right? 21:47:05 hey 21:47:18 we should just have an automata topic bot. 21:47:43 tho that might as well be me. i can tell you about automata. maybe. :X 21:48:20 i say automayta, you say automahta 21:48:33 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 21:49:14 actually i say it like its supposed to be said: /OtAm@4@/ 21:50:14 well 21:50:17 those should be [] 21:50:42 aw-TAH-muh-tuhn 21:50:54 for the singular 21:50:59 aw-TAH-muh-tuh for the plural 21:51:06 Back 21:51:15 * oerjan throws a rotten automaton at psygnisfive 21:51:18 tho obviously in normal speech the second t is tapped and sounds more like a d 21:51:22 lament: it runs a rule 110 automation in the topic 21:51:27 by stepping it every 30 mins/1 hr/whatever 21:51:29 hey! no rotten automata throwing! 21:51:44 in continuing with the tradition of crazy topics... 21:51:49 it'd also allow extra stuff in the topic 21:51:51 tusho: how does it look like? 21:51:52 that is you could do 21:52:00 log url | cellular state | some stuff 21:52:04 and it'd only modify the middle 21:52:20 lament: I had one in #esoteric-blah a while back, it basically did it with * and - or whatever 21:52:23 it looked really neat 21:52:34 i'll have to rewrite it due to different machine but that'd only take a second 21:52:37 cool 21:52:54 we should have a theme song 21:53:04 i propose we use Kraftwerks We are the Robots 21:53:20 nah it'd have to be made by fuge 21:53:22 err 21:53:25 whatever that lang is called 21:53:36 Fugue? 21:53:40 yes 21:53:47 -!- tusho has changed nick to meowbot. 21:53:52 (C.A.T get it arf arf arf) 21:54:19 Nick MeowBot is already registered to Jerick. 21:54:20 :| 21:54:23 -!- meowbot has changed nick to catbot. 21:54:24 * oerjan thought arf was a dog sound 21:54:39 -!- catbot has changed nick to OerjansTerribleP. 21:54:41 aww 21:54:45 OerjansTerriblePunsBot 21:54:48 it is 21:55:01 -!- OerjansTerribleP has changed nick to otpbot. 21:56:03 -!- otpbot has changed nick to tusho. 21:56:08 actually 21:56:18 -!- otpbot has joined. 21:56:18 y helo dar 21:56:24 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:56:29 i propose that the song we have as a themesong 21:56:30 ok let's see 21:56:35 is Art of the Fugue or something similar 21:56:37 which rule should I use? 21:56:40 110 is the most interesting right 21:56:43 in midi. 21:56:59 hmm 21:57:02 rule 110 grows leftwards 21:57:07 actually 21:57:09 fart of the ugue 21:57:11 it'd be nicer just to have one of the patterny ones 21:57:13 not a growing one 21:57:23 even though TCness in the topic is fun 21:57:34 ofcourse, im convinced that playing the full Art of the Fugue to the Fugue interpreter would summon god or some other magnificent event 21:57:58 implement a simple turing machine, tusho. 21:58:02 no 21:58:03 you could always use wrapping 21:58:05 cellular automata are more fun 21:58:46 * tusho thinks 21:59:07 need a pretty cellular automata that doesn't grow... 21:59:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They're_Coming_to_Take_Me_Away_Ha-Haaa! 22:00:05 tusho: i said, just use wrapping 22:00:12 oerjan: in what way? 22:00:28 left end wraps to right end 22:02:02 although rule 110 tends to degrade into a small number of gliders on the ether pattern 22:02:14 hmm 22:02:17 what would you suggest then? 22:02:31 (possibly zero, although you can prevent that by having the width _not_ be a multiple of 14) 22:03:35 * tusho thinks 22:03:36 i think rule 30 is also an interesting one? 22:03:39 oerjan: yes 22:03:52 but it grows both ways 22:03:53 unfortunately 22:04:25 i still suggest wrapping regardless of rule 22:06:23 yes 22:06:23 hmm 22:06:25 I implemented rule 30 22:06:27 but it never grows.. 22:06:52 ah wait 22:06:56 it needs to pretend it has an infinite list 22:06:57 hmph 22:07:35 I suck at implementing this :D 22:07:45 * tusho nabs an impl 22:13:39 this is annoying 22:13:39 :D 22:16:28 oky 22:16:36 oerjan: I'm unsure how to do wrapping 22:16:36 :\ 22:16:51 language? 22:16:57 ruby :p 22:17:01 erm 22:17:07 but yeah, I'm just not sure the general algorithm 22:17:10 for wrapping the cellular automata 22:18:55 you can modify the string by adding the first and last chars at the opposite end 22:19:16 how does that wrap it though? 22:19:18 then remove afterward 22:19:26 you do it _each_ step 22:19:46 ah 22:19:53 'then remove afterward'? 22:20:24 it depends how your base algorithm does things 22:21:33 another possibility would be to use mod to look up indices 22:21:46 (with the length) 22:23:55 I just have a black-box function that changes a global array atm :) 22:24:00 shaped like ["0","0","1"] 22:24:24 right and what does that function do at the ends 22:24:30 def step 22:24:31 width = 3 + $cells.length 22:24:31 $cells = (['0','0'] + $cells + ['0','0']).enum_cons(3).map {|l| $rule[l]} 22:24:31 end 22:24:31 :p 22:24:39 hm it doesn't even use width 22:24:43 $cells = (['0','0'] + $cells + ['0','0']).enum_cons(3).map {|l| $rule[l]} 22:24:50 $rule = {["0", "0", "0"]=>"0", ["1", "1", "0"]=>"0", ["1", "1", "1"]=>"0", ["0", "1", "0"]=>"1", ["0", "1", "1"]=>"1", ["1", "0", "1"]=>"0", ["0", "0", "1"]=>"1", ["1", "0", "0"]=>"1"} 22:25:37 i see so you add ['0','0'] at both ends. well just add the opposite end chars instead. 22:25:50 so 22:26:02 $cells[-2, -1] + $cells + $cells[0, 1]? 22:26:15 something like that 22:26:55 except i'm not sure why you add 2 chars rather than just 1 22:27:00 * tusho shrugs 22:27:36 oerjan: $cells = ([$cells[-1]] + $cells + [$cells[0]]).enum_cons(3).map {|l| $rule[l]} 22:27:38 just makes it go 1 22:27:40 then 0 0 0 0 0 0... 22:29:21 what should 111 give? 22:29:43 ooh 22:29:44 it works 22:30:12 HAHA 22:30:13 THE ARROWS 22:30:14 THEY ARE THERE 22:30:30 o_O 22:30:36 the arrows in the pattern 22:30:36 :D 22:31:57 ok 22:32:01 i've put it on speed mode 22:32:04 ah yes i guess adding two zeros at the end is the thing if you _want_ to grow 22:32:04 (one change per sec) 22:32:10 so we can see it in action a bit 22:32:35 otpbot.rb:20:in `write': Broken pipe (Errno::EPIPE) 22:32:36 lol 22:33:01 -!- otpbot has joined. 22:33:01 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __XXXXXX__XX_____X__X_XX___X______X_X_XXX__X_XXXX_X_XXX__XX__X____X__X_XXXX_X___XX_X____X__XX__X____. 22:33:04 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX_____XXX_X___XXXXX_X_X_XXX____XX_X_X__XXX_X____X_X__XXX_XXXX__XXXXX_X____XX_XX__XX__XXXXX_XXXX___. 22:33:07 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX_X___XX___XX_XX_____X_X_X__X__XX__X_XXXX___XX__XX_XXXX___X___XXX_____XX__XX__X_XXX_XXX_____X___X__. 22:33:09 one change per sec may be above the flooding limit 22:33:10 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X__XX_XX_X_XX__X_X___XX_X_XXXXXXX_XXX_X___X_XX_XXX__X___X_XXX_XX__X___XX_XXX_XXX_X___X__X___XXX_XXXX. 22:33:13 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXX__X__X_X_XXX_XX_XX__X_X_______X___XX_XX_X__X__XXXX_XX_X___X_XXXX_XX__X___X___XX_XXXXXX_XX___X___. 22:33:14 i did it every 3 secs 22:33:16 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX__XXXXXX_X_X___X__X_XXX_XX_____XXX_XX__X__XXXXXXX____X__XX_XX_X____X_XXXX_XXX_XX__X______X_X_XXX__. 22:33:19 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X_XXX______X_XX_XXXXX_X___X_X___XX___X_XXXXXX______X__XXXXX__X__XX__XX_X____X___X_XXXX____XX_X_X__XX. 22:33:22 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __X__X____XX_X__X_____XX_XX_XX_XX_X_XX_X_____X____XXXXX____XXXXXX_XXX__XX__XXX_XX_X___X__XX__X_XXXX_. 22:33:25 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXXXXX__XX__XXXXX___XX__X__X__X__X_X__XX___XXX__XX____X__XX______X__XXX_XXX___X__XX_XXXXX_XXX_X___X. 22:33:28 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _X_____XXX_XXX____X_XX_XXXXXXXXXXXX_XXXX_X_XX__XXX_X__XXXXX_X____XXXXX___X__X_XXXXX__X_____X___XX_XX. 22:33:31 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX___XX___X__X__XX_X__X____________X____X_X_XXX___XXXX_____XX__XX____X_XXXXX_X____XXXX___XXX_XX__X_. 22:33:34 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX_X_XX_X_XXXXXXXX__XXXXX__________XXX__XX_X_X__X_XX___X___XX_XXX_X__XX_X_____XX__XX___X_XX___X_XXXX. 22:33:37 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ___X_X__X_X_______XXX____X________XX__XXX__X_XXXX_X_X_XXX_XX__X___XXXX__XX___XX_XXX_X_XX_X_X_XX_X___. 22:33:40 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __XX_XXXX_XX_____XX__X__XXX______XX_XXX__XXX_X____X_X_X___X_XXXX_XX___XXX_X_XX__X___X_X__X_X_X__XX__. 22:33:43 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX__X____X_X___XX_XXXXXX__X____XX__X__XXX___XX__XX_X_XX_XX_X____X_X_XX___X_X_XXXX_XX_XXXX_X_XXXX_X_. 22:33:44 hmph, it was more exciting in #esoteric-blah 22:33:46 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX_XXXX__XX_XX_XX__X_____XXXX__XX_XXXXXX__X_XX_XXX__X_X__X__XX__XX_X_X_X_XX_X_X____X__X____X_X____XX. 22:33:49 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ___X___XXX__X__X_XXXX___XX___XXX__X_____XXX_X__X__XXX_XXXXXXX_XXX__X_X_X_X__X_XX__XXXXXX__XX_XX__XX_. 22:33:52 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __XXX_XX__XXXXXX_X___X_XX_X_XX__XXXX___XX___XXXXXXX___X_______X__XXX_X_X_XXXX_X_XXX_____XXX__X_XXX_X. 22:33:55 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XXX___X_XXX______XX_XX_X__X_X_XXX___X_XX_X_XX______X_XXX_____XXXXX___X_X_X____X_X__X___XX__XXX_X___X. 22:33:55 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:34:00 lament: verdickt? 22:34:29 verdickt: verdammt! :D 22:34:48 :p 22:35:06 wtf, topic flood :p 22:35:42 M0ny: cellular automata floo 22:35:42 d 22:35:43 :D 22:35:51 :D 22:37:35 sadly my client won't show long enough lines to see the topic messages nicely 22:37:55 my irc client doesn't even display the topic (but it does display topic changes) 22:38:05 i meant the changes 22:38:15 there has to be _something_ we can do to spruce up the topic 22:38:20 maybe a markov chain topic? 22:38:41 y/n? 22:39:18 i _do_ see the topic itself at the top, it was like a movie. but 1d automata are nicest when shown in 2d 22:39:28 yeah 22:39:35 in 1d, we ought to be showing 0d automata 22:39:37 oerjan: agreed 22:39:41 it's the triangles that do it 22:39:44 (0d automaton = markov chain!) 22:40:19 lament: WELL THEN! 22:40:22 it looks like it's decided 22:40:34 should it just regurgitate #esoteric or something else too? 22:41:03 maybe #politics 22:41:07 or #ubuntu 22:41:16 how about #haskell? 22:41:20 that would make us look smart 22:41:46 maybe it should regurgitate some hacking channel on another server 22:42:39 #haskell uses a bunch of advanced terminology 22:42:52 yes true 22:42:57 zygomorphic prehistormimes 22:43:11 lament: so it should listen to #esoteric _and_ haskell 22:43:18 so we get things like 'bounded turing zygomorphisms' 22:43:22 proteocategorically memeographic 22:44:19 * oerjan wonders if there is a paleontology channel 22:44:21 sounds good 22:44:34 although i think in #esoteric we mostly talk about gay rape 22:44:38 and not the Turing kind 22:45:20 main.c:7:20: error: malloc.h: No such file or directory 22:45:25 i don't know that Turing was ever convicted of rape 22:45:26 STUPID FREAKING ABANDONWARE 22:46:09 of course if he had, it would have been gay 22:46:45 i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: unrecognized option '-shared' 22:46:47 RETARDED SHIT 22:46:56 * tusho gets a binary 22:47:19 at this rate i think we should just regurgitate tusho 22:47:49 or just put direct quotes in the topic 22:48:08 -!- lament has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | STUPID FREAKING ABANDONWARE. 22:48:55 * tusho contemplates feeding the entire backlog of #esoteric to the bot 22:49:53 -!- lament has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | STUPID FREAKING ABANDONWARE. 22:50:36 goddamn I just want a megahal binary 22:50:38 is that too much 22:51:02 what's megahal? 22:51:06 use lambdabot 22:51:30 oerjan: a markov chain bot 22:51:34 very well-refined 22:51:42 -!- Corun has joined. 22:51:43 it has something like two opposite-direction 4-order markov chains one for punctuation or something 22:51:45 I don't understand it 22:52:21 ARGH FUCKING .SIT FILE 22:52:51 hm the WP page has disputed notability 22:57:34 woop woop installed 22:58:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Woop_Woop <- this you mean? 22:58:23 * tusho downloads all the logs 23:00:41 wtfoo 23:00:45 wget isn't mirroring prop'ly 23:01:03 you should leave out those that contain elder god names 23:01:21 wget may be doing that automatically 23:01:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 23:02:00 AHA 23:02:00 Disallow: /~nef/logs/ 23:02:08 how can I tell wget to ignore robots.txt 23:02:08 :P 23:02:37 By modifying the code. 23:02:51 nope 23:02:53 -e robots=no 23:03:24 there it gooooes 23:03:32 Hmm./ 23:03:34 A long time will take this. 23:05:07 yay 23:05:08 on to 2005 23:06:44 lament: how often should it change the topic? 23:17:21 ping 23:17:42 pong 23:17:45 ;D 23:20:06 6uod 23:20:12 -!- dogface has joined. 23:20:52 Are there compilers to Unlambda? 23:21:53 yes 23:24:04 * tusho watches it be train'd 23:27:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:28:58 help. have not memory for this 23:29:05 megahakl be import slow 23:29:19 computer die. 23:29:53 -!- olsner has joined. 23:30:23 my memory is going. i can feel it. 23:31:06 much better. 23:31:08 though still slow. 23:31:10 74% 23:31:16 We only need one compiler. 23:31:51 so darn slow 23:31:52 Why write a new compiler when you can take two compilers, compose them, and compile the result? 23:32:30 75% 23:32:32 how long will this take 23:32:58 Because new compilers can be more efficient when compiling. 23:33:15 76% 23:33:20 can't wait this long. 23:33:21 I guess some hand-optimization is necessary. 23:33:22 am be terminate. 23:33:48 tusho: Doing what? 23:33:56 I know of a simple extension to Unlambda that would make it Much Better 23:33:57 megahal import of this whole channel 23:34:06 :) 23:34:10 all logs 23:34:14 bleah 23:34:18 * pikhq is slowly doing pvmove magic 23:34:24 544673 megahal.trn 23:34:33 ``Exy returns either x or y. `Rx makes the interpreter happy and returns x. `Px makes the interpreter sad and returns x. 23:34:46 pikhq: how many lines do you think I should train it with 23:34:50 144673? 23:34:58 1337**2 23:35:08 2**1337 23:35:20 2^1337 23:35:23 Erm. 23:35:28 2^^1337 23:35:35 Actually, 1337*ln(1337) would be a good number. 23:35:57 G_1337. Or (G_)^1334 64. 23:36:05 And by 1334, I mean 1337. 23:36:26 Oh, the fun that can be had with uparrow notation. 23:36:33 2 23:36:35 * tusho tries again with shorter train 23:36:42 2^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^2 23:36:56 it'll have to learn the more recent gay sex 23:36:57 i'm afraid 23:37:12 Do you consider "(G_)^1334 64" to be unambiguous? 23:37:34 Hmm, we really need a system for representing Very Large Numbers. 23:38:10 Training from file: 100% 23:39:24 { x } y means the string x repeated y times. ( x | y ) means x y x. 0 means 0. + x means x+1. 23:39:50 Well, let's not just say 0 means 0; let's say all natural numbers are themselves. 23:40:42 "{+}5 5" is "+ + + + + 5", which is 10. How to interpret braces inside braces is left as an exercise for the reader. 23:41:47 dogface: There's been a ton of them. 23:41:58 what the hell are you kids talking about 23:42:01 Indeed. 23:42:11 Asimov did one, Knuth did one, I think oerjan did one, I bet ais523 did one... 23:42:27 Coming up with a system for representing Very Large Numbers is a lot like coming up with a system for representing ordinal numbers. 23:42:29 -rw-r--r-- 1 ehird ehird 2.4M 2008-08-07 23:42 megahal.brn 23:42:46 oh i see 23:42:49 >>> mh_python.doreply("How are you today?") 23:42:49 zsh: bus error python 23:42:51 representing very large numbers 23:42:51 ok. 23:43:07 >>> mh_python.doreply("How are you today?") 23:43:08 'Machine, secondly, implement the turing paper uses a delta symbol in lambda calculus.' 23:43:18 >>> mh_python.doreply("What is the meaning of life?") 23:43:19 zsh: bus error python 23:43:31 I'm seeing a pattern. 23:44:04 * dogface thinks about why "the smallest ordinal number not expressible in ZFC" cannot be written in ZFC 23:44:20 > What is the meaning of life? 23:44:21 > 23:44:21 zsh: bus error ~/megahal-9.1.1/megahal -d . 23:44:27 ENTERPRISE-GRADE SOFTWARE 23:44:43 isnt megahal one of those loebner prize bots? 23:44:52 yea 23:45:06 its gonna be changing the topics around here 23:45:08 if it stops crashing 23:45:24 loebner prize bots suck 23:45:24 Hmm, making a ZFC in ZFC. Add some axioms: there's a set called Mini-ZFC, and the sets in Mini-ZFC satisfy the ZFC axioms themselves. 23:45:25 they're shit 23:45:31 >>> mh_python.doreply("What should the next topic be?") 23:45:31 ' Topic' 23:45:36 Is there some other prize that isn't shit? 23:45:37 psygnisfive: megahal is pretty good 23:45:48 by who's measure? 23:45:55 not by turings. 23:46:06 Yeah. It has to be strong AI otherwise it's trash, right? 23:46:06 I should turn GHC into a chatbot. 23:46:08 and dont say the loebner prize is a turing test 23:46:10 cause its not 23:46:10 It can't just be amusing. 23:46:13 Noo. 23:49:12 dogface: there's probably some way to get from "the smallest ordinal number not expressible in ZFC exists" to "ZFC is consistent" or similar 23:49:30 which hits against godel's incompleteness theorem 23:50:11 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 23:50:58 The opposite of "the smallest ordinal number not expressible in ZFC exists" is "all ordinal numbers are expressible in ZFC". 23:51:34 i did say "or similar". there is probably some technical work to be done. 23:51:36 i dont think so 23:51:41 the first sentence says 23:52:11 There exists some number that is not expressible in ZFC that is smaller than all other numbers not expressible in ZFC 23:52:27 the opposte of that would be that there does NOT exist some number ... 23:52:43 which would say that there is no smallest number not expressible in ZFC 23:53:00 stupid megahal 23:53:04 who has non-markov-chain ideas 23:53:14 i don't think that makes much difference. with ordinal numbers there always is a smallest one 23:53:14 which is not the same at all as saying that all ordinal numbers are expressible in ZFC 23:53:17 tusho: turn GHC into a chatbot. 23:53:23 No. :P 23:53:28 oerjan: real numbers are ordinal. 23:53:33 psygnisfive: no 23:53:45 ordinal number is a technical term 23:53:49 tusho: create a virtual machine with a really small memory, put memory in the topic 23:53:51 Very few real numbers are ordinal, and very few ordinal numbers are real. 23:53:58 lament: and... 23:54:35 hm 23:55:03 tusho: and execute an instruction every so often. 23:55:33 well either way, the two statements are not the same 23:55:56 very few real numbers are real. 23:57:16 psygnisfive: you say "there is no minimal ordinal number not expressible in ZFC" is not the same as "there is no ordinal number not expressible in ZFC"? 23:58:35 ah, i suppose you're right. :) 23:58:37 lament: how often should it change the topic 23:58:46 As statements of ZFC + "ZFC is consistent" (I like to call it ZFC_1), both are false anyway. 23:59:05 i dont do good with logical statements rendered in plain english :( 23:59:48 ZFC + "ZFC is inconsistent" is definitely inconsistent, isn't it?