←2008-08-22 2008-08-23 2008-08-24→ ↑2008 ↑all
00:05:08 <lament> can anyone in here upload files to the esoteric archive?
00:32:44 <tusho> no
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00:41:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I don't think it's perlish.
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03:24:14 <dogface_> Wow. I have so few points in Hideous Counter.
03:24:53 <psygnisf_> D:
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03:25:15 <dogface_> Relatively, that is.
03:25:29 <psygnisfive> dogface
03:25:35 <psygnisfive> will you participate in an experiment?
03:30:53 <dogface_> Maybe.
03:31:03 <dogface_> Not the AI Box experiment.
03:31:33 <dogface_> Yay, I got about 4000 points in just a few minutes.
03:31:35 <psygnisfive> no no
03:31:43 <psygnisfive> a serious experiment
03:32:09 <dogface_> A skilled person would be able to get... oh, 100 clicks per second without cheating.
03:32:19 <dogface_> Using JavaScript, yes, but not cheating.
03:32:24 <dogface_> What sort of experiment, then?
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03:32:47 <psygnisfive> i'd like you to try and formulate a grammar for english.
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03:34:52 <dogface_> Such a thing would be rather large.
03:35:43 <dogface_> Is it okay if I design a new language with few grammatical constructs?
03:36:16 <psygnisfive> no
03:36:22 <psygnisfive> :p
03:36:32 <psygnisfive> but you dont have to do a whole grammar
03:36:39 <psygnisfive> i just want your perspective
03:36:58 <dogface_> <sentence> ::= <noun> <verb>. <noun> ::= "q" <sentence>. <noun> ::= <noun> "q" <verb>. <verb> ::= <verb> <noun>.
03:37:06 <dogface_> That actually covers much of English.
03:37:11 <psygnisfive> no it doesnt :P
03:37:19 <psygnisfive> dont make me smack you :p
03:37:24 <dogface_> Yes it does. :-P
03:37:31 <psygnisfive> how >|
03:38:07 <dogface_> A sentence has a subject (noun) and a predicate (verb). A noun can be formed from a sentence, a verb can be added to a noun, and a noun can be added to a verb.
03:38:25 <psygnisfive> okfirstly
03:38:26 <psygnisfive> "q"?
03:38:53 <psygnisfive> secondly, lets not call congolmerations of things just noun or verb
03:39:02 <psygnisfive> if it has more than one thing on the right, call it a x phrase
03:39:24 <dogface_> "q" is a word.
03:39:39 <dogface_> An abbreviation of the Spanish word "que", meaning "that".
03:39:48 <psygnisfive> ok well your grammar is already wrong :)
03:40:14 <psygnisfive> S -> N V, N -> q S, N -> N q V, V -> V N
03:40:20 <psygnisfive> is wrong for a number of reasons :P
03:40:33 <psygnisfive> firstly, it contains no terminal symbols except Q
03:40:34 <dogface_> Replace all instances of <noun> with <noun phrase> and all instances of <verb> with <verb phrase>, then.
03:40:49 <psygnisfive> secondly, V is non-terminating!
03:41:25 <psygnisfive> secondly, S is recursively non-terminating
03:41:45 <psygnisfive> thirdly*
03:42:06 <dogface_> Well, you're going to have more words than just q. Languages are generally open-ended.
03:42:21 <psygnisfive> yes, but even so
03:42:24 <psygnisfive> your rules dont worry
03:42:30 <psygnisfive> even letting q be any word
03:42:55 <dogface_> What about even letting q be any word?
03:43:07 <psygnisfive> even with q as a variable for any word, the grammar wont work
03:43:44 <dogface_> What do you mean by "won't work"?
03:43:49 <psygnisfive> it wont work!
03:43:52 <psygnisfive> it produces no sentences.
03:44:02 <psygnisfive> because its non-terminating.
03:44:15 <psygnisfive> it has infinite recursion atleast three different places
03:44:24 <psygnisfive> non-optional infinite recursion
03:44:39 <dogface_> "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." "Fox q is-quick q is-brown jumps dog q is-lazy."
03:44:51 <dogface_> Though it has no support for "the" or "over" at the moment.
03:45:06 <psygnisfive> what?
03:45:21 <psygnisfive> Fox q is-quick q is-brown... what?
03:45:38 <dogface_> That's the sentence in q-language.
03:45:51 <psygnisfive> firstly, no its not :)
03:46:04 <psygnisfive> secondly, this language isnt english :P
03:46:37 <psygnisfive> i get the feeling you dont know how to describe grammars with a BNF CFG
03:46:51 <dogface_> Firstly, yes it is. Secondly, okay, replace each word with its q-language equivalent.
03:46:58 <psygnisfive> sure
03:47:04 <psygnisfive> but how did you get "Fox"?
03:47:06 <psygnisfive> you cant.
03:47:12 <dogface_> Okay, okay.
03:47:20 <psygnisfive> your language has only non-terminals
03:47:23 <psygnisfive> which have infinite recursion
03:47:27 <psygnisfive> and arbitrary terminals
03:47:34 <psygnisfive> even if Fox was one of those terminals
03:47:34 <dogface_> <sentence> ::= <noun> <verb>. <noun> ::= "q" <sentence>. <noun> ::= <noun> "q" <verb>. <verb> ::= <verb> <noun>. <noun> ::= terminal noun. <verb> ::= terminal verb.
03:47:48 <psygnisfive> :P
03:47:55 <psygnisfive> why "q"?
03:48:25 <psygnisfive> besides, this isnt english :P
03:48:39 <dogface_> Languages have arbitrary terminals.
03:48:47 <psygnisfive> yes, but what is "q"?
03:48:54 <dogface_> "q" is a word.
03:48:58 <psygnisfive> a specific word?
03:49:01 <psygnisfive> or a variable?
03:49:05 <psygnisfive> as in, any word?
03:49:10 <dogface_> Yes, a specific word. The word "q".
03:49:17 <psygnisfive> ok, why? :P
03:49:41 <dogface_> Because when I think of the word "that" in other languages, I think "q".
03:50:04 <psygnisfive> ok
03:50:06 <psygnisfive> so?
03:50:31 <dogface_> You asked me why it was "q", didn't you? I needed a word for "that"; "q" was what I thought of.
03:51:09 <psygnisfive> why do you need a word for "that"?
03:51:44 <psygnisfive> oh i think i see what you mean
03:51:57 <psygnisfive> "that" as in "that you have brown hair upsets people"
03:52:09 <psygnisfive> ok thats interesting
03:52:10 <psygnisfive> but
03:52:16 <psygnisfive> it doesnt handle english :)
03:52:16 <dogface_> Because otherwise, there would be nothing to fill the role of adjectives, and you couldn't say "I wish that there were ice cream on my head."
03:52:24 <psygnisfive> you're missing adjectives and adverbs and other things
03:52:35 <dogface_> Adjectives can be replaced with verbs.
03:52:42 <psygnisfive> but thats not english
03:52:51 <psygnisfive> the question was can you provide a grammar of ENGLISH
03:53:00 <psygnisfive> not a grammar of your particular reworking of english
03:53:00 <dogface_> Quite true.
03:54:35 <psygnisfive> if you dont want to do it, just say so
03:54:44 <psygnisfive> but if you do, then you have to be serious :P
03:54:51 <dogface_> Okay, let's start basic.
03:55:22 <psygnisfive> i mean
03:55:34 <dogface_> These sorts of things exist: <something> ::= <something> <something-else>, <something> ::= "some special word" <something-else>, and dropping pieces of phrases so that they can be put elsewhere.
03:55:37 <psygnisfive> you've started off decently enough to the extent that it seems to account for very simple things
03:55:53 <psygnisfive> but its too limited
03:56:17 <dogface_> Like many others, I like to ignore the fact that many English sentences don't fit my model.
03:56:28 <psygnisfive> :p
03:56:32 <psygnisfive> cmon, be serious
03:56:36 <psygnisfive> also
03:56:37 <psygnisfive> pm
04:30:07 <dogface_> Now, someone write a Thue program to convert things like es:en,{I am not worth very much money.} to things like es,{No valo por mucho dinero.}
04:30:58 <dogface_> And I'll probably be going to bed nowabouts.
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07:19:23 <asiekierka> http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles/?id=26 - 1KBWC Screeble card!
07:34:40 <GreaseMonkey> :D
07:41:37 <asiekierka> I'd like to see a 1KBWC ircbot
07:41:45 <asiekierka> cards will be just text though
07:42:29 <asiekierka> A global library, from which everyone can take a card for play, and a local one, from which you can only take
07:42:32 <asiekierka> you'll define it like
07:43:01 <asiekierka> `addlocal "No Operationify" "Put the card on your opponent's deck and shuffle the deck"
07:43:02 <asiekierka> or
07:43:22 <asiekierka> `addglobal "Screeble Card" "Punch the stickman. blablabla"
07:43:26 <asiekierka> You can also do
07:43:48 <asiekierka> `addglobal "Pictured Card" "Added image" "http://example.com/some_picture.jpg"
07:43:51 <asiekierka> It can also be gif or png
07:44:04 <asiekierka> Addlocal works the same, only it adds to the local deck, not the global
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11:45:36 <tusho> um
11:45:37 <tusho> http://hideou.se/counter/
11:45:47 <tusho> wow.
11:45:48 <tusho> top person as 89715 clicks :O
11:45:58 <tusho> *has
11:45:59 <tusho> The boggles minds.
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12:12:57 <AnMaster> tusho, indeed it does
12:13:02 <AnMaster> must be scripted
12:13:07 <tusho> no
12:13:10 <tusho> I know who Aether is
12:13:20 <tusho> he may have used JS
12:13:20 <AnMaster> tusho, someone with a broken finger?
12:13:26 <tusho> but I think its feasable that he actually clicked
12:13:29 <AnMaster> tusho, well yeah I thought about that too
12:13:39 <tusho> not sure which, but I don't think he'd have JS'd it
12:13:46 <AnMaster> but I noted I didn't know enough js to actually do that
12:13:49 <tusho> he doesn't generall seem to tbe the type
12:14:15 <tusho> AnMaster: javascript:function x(){increment_counter();setTimeout(x,10);};x();
12:14:22 <tusho> Pretty trivial. Pretty trivial to detect, too.
12:14:48 <AnMaster> tusho, unless you do random pause in a certain interval?
12:15:12 <AnMaster> ie, average of 8 clicks per second +/- 3 or whatever
12:15:20 <tusho> AnMaster: sure, but then i'd notice that you never, ever stopped.
12:15:36 <AnMaster> tusho, with random pauses
12:15:43 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, but you'd still never stop
12:15:47 <tusho> you'd never take a break
12:15:49 <tusho> etc
12:15:54 <AnMaster> well random breaks?
12:16:52 <tusho> AnMaster: you mean like it'd stop every 15 mins or so for a bit?
12:17:05 <AnMaster> tusho, or even every 5 minutes
12:17:07 <AnMaster> yeah
12:17:12 <tusho> Well, if you do all of that, then you're a sad idiot who has nothing better to do than game a silly little website by showing off your 1337 javascript skillz.
12:17:21 <AnMaster> tusho, haha :)
12:17:22 <tusho> And I laugh at your wasted effort.
12:17:26 <AnMaster> indeed I don't know javascript
12:17:39 <AnMaster> human simulator :P
12:34:23 <oklopol> human misconceived as a bot is much more impressive than the other way around
12:41:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | switching to linux.
12:42:54 <AnMaster> oklopol, don't you have better things to do that breaking your finger?
12:44:03 <oklopol> i use two hands
12:44:58 <oklopol> uhh god i'm fast
12:47:39 <oklopol> okay, let's show BlehTehBleh
12:48:27 <oklopol> thousand to go
12:52:04 <tusho> oklopol: pfft
12:52:08 <tusho> noob
12:52:12 <tusho> 6969 is trivial :P
12:52:19 <tusho> 20001 is where it's at!
12:52:27 <tusho> 89715
12:52:31 <tusho> is ...
12:52:34 <tusho> :P
12:52:37 <tusho> Not where it's at!
12:52:41 <tusho> 89715 is totally uncool.
12:52:45 <tusho> So is 21100.
12:52:45 <tusho> Yeah.
12:52:47 <tusho> I'm totally winning.
12:53:17 <oklopol> time to take dreq down
12:53:19 <oklopol> *drew
12:54:50 <oklopol> done
12:55:13 <tusho> yer all peanuts
12:55:37 <oklopol> time for dividebyzero to face his destiny and shit
12:58:12 <oklopol> done
12:58:31 <oklopol> shtetl is dead. soon
12:59:45 <oklopol> /0 started playing, that was scary
13:02:21 <tusho> i know like 90% of these people ha
13:02:31 <tusho> also wow oklopol
13:02:33 <tusho> you are fast :D
13:09:00 <oklopol> yes
13:09:06 <tusho> oklopol
13:09:08 <oklopol> tusho
13:09:09 <tusho> how did you get 13000?
13:09:10 <tusho> ?!
13:09:14 <tusho> you were at like 6000
13:09:19 <oklopol> i pressed the button a few times.
13:09:24 <tusho> did you use a script :|
13:09:26 <oklopol> i'm a pianist
13:09:27 <oklopol> no
13:09:30 <tusho> ok
13:09:32 <tusho> you're just a machine then
13:09:32 <tusho> :P
13:09:33 <oklopol> i don't know how to script that, except for python
13:09:55 <oklopol> yeah i'm a mean button-pressing machine
13:10:16 <oklopol> hmm
13:10:26 <oklopol> wonder if i should own that beatles guy
13:10:45 <tusho> yes
13:10:50 <tusho> though if he starts just give up
13:11:02 <tusho> he's incredibly hyperactive and is insanely OCD
13:11:08 <tusho> you have to get him while he sleeps. :p
13:11:28 <oklopol> i'm the only one playing atm
13:11:34 <oklopol> hmm
13:11:34 <oklopol> not
13:11:38 <tusho> no you're not
13:11:39 <tusho> hannah is too
13:11:40 <tusho> oklopol: remember
13:11:43 <tusho> there's more than 35 people
13:11:45 <tusho> that's just the highscores
13:12:10 <tusho> oklopol: i'll make it show everyone for 10 secs
13:12:57 <tusho> oklopol: hm, nobody else is clicking thouhg
13:13:14 <oklopol> well
13:13:22 <oklopol> you could make it show the logged in user's points
13:13:31 <oklopol> at least
13:13:34 <tusho> true but why bother
13:13:38 <tusho> 1000 clicks is pretty darn easy
13:13:42 <tusho> and after that just look at the high scores
13:14:02 <oklopol> highscores?
13:14:06 <tusho> oklopol: 'top clickers'
13:14:08 <tusho> :P
13:14:13 <oklopol> is that the best 35, or everyone over 1000?
13:14:16 <tusho> best 35
13:14:20 <tusho> you just need to get over 1000 atm
13:14:28 <tusho> so it's not a great need
13:17:09 <oklopol> well yeah, but if you make it show the player's points, it will make sense even after decades!.
13:17:23 <oklopol> otherwise it's just sheet of numbers and names with button
13:17:48 <tusho> oklopol: that's coming in v4
13:17:49 <tusho> kthx
13:17:50 <tusho> now
13:17:52 <oklopol> :P
13:17:52 <tusho> overtake zebra
13:17:54 <tusho> and win moneys
13:17:57 <oklopol> :D
13:18:04 <oklopol> fuck you're next
13:18:07 <oklopol> i didn't even notive
13:18:09 <oklopol> *notice
13:18:14 <tusho> then dave, hannah should be pretty easy, emillion too, procyon
13:18:16 <tusho> (all very close)
13:18:21 <tusho> then alan redgown will be shiethard
13:18:26 <tusho> anya quite hard
13:18:30 <tusho> brain almost impossible
13:18:37 <tusho> blackbird as hard as alan redgown
13:18:40 <tusho> sqrt kind of hard
13:18:43 <tusho> and aether impossible.
13:21:22 <tusho> Phew.
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13:23:15 <asiekierka> Yaysirs
13:23:27 <asiekierka> i have the first Animathed Screeble done
13:23:34 <asiekierka> 4 seconds
13:23:41 <asiekierka> 352x288 resolution
13:23:44 <asiekierka> Quality: questionable
13:23:54 <tusho> asiekierka
13:23:56 <tusho> you'll like the counter
13:23:57 <tusho> http://hideou.se/counter/
13:26:03 <asiekierka> Can i hold f1
13:27:27 <tusho> What does f1 do
13:27:31 <asiekierka> Depends
13:27:41 <tusho> Well, the button there isn't a real button.
13:27:54 <tusho> It's a span with fancy styling.
13:27:58 <asiekierka> DEPENDS i saids
13:27:58 <tusho> asiekierka: basically
13:28:00 <tusho> it won't work
13:28:00 <asiekierka> said*
13:28:11 <tusho> and if you'd be more clear
13:28:12 <asiekierka> How many hits do i have now
13:28:12 <tusho> maybe I'd tell youw
13:28:13 <asiekierka> then
13:28:16 <tusho> I don't know.
13:28:23 <tusho> asiekierka: if the thing is spinning
13:28:25 <tusho> next to the button
13:28:27 <tusho> then it's incrementing
13:28:28 <tusho> if it's not
13:28:30 <tusho> nothing is happening
13:28:34 <asiekierka> F1 is mapped to "Click" in my key->to->action thingie for 3D movie maker
13:28:39 <asiekierka> It happens to work in IE too
13:28:52 <tusho> asiekierka: Then stop immediately
13:28:55 <tusho> or face a point reset
13:29:14 <tusho> The rule is: You have to exert reasonable effort for each increment.
13:29:20 <tusho> Hitting a key or clicking a button counts.
13:29:30 <tusho> I suggest tapping both enter keys (regular and numpad) in quick succession.
13:29:33 <asiekierka> Reset my points then :P
13:29:58 <asiekierka> You know
13:30:02 <asiekierka> you should make it 2 buttons
13:30:13 <asiekierka> First you press the left one, then the right, then the left, then the right
13:30:28 <asiekierka> Failing the order will result in -100 points, of if you have <100 points, zeroing it
13:30:52 <tusho> asiekierka: Your account has been removed.
13:31:00 <tusho> You can remake it if you won't cheat.
13:31:05 <asiekierka> ok
13:32:15 <asiekierka> Can I make a hardware clicker that recognizes every stomp on it as "Enter"?
13:32:27 <asiekierka> So i must stomp at it with a bit of power to recognize an "Enter"
13:32:40 <tusho> Yes.
13:32:52 <asiekierka> It's not cheating. It's "making-your-work-a-thousand-times-harder", like, the reverse of cheating
13:32:56 <tusho> As long as reasonable effort and the intention to cause an increment (not idly) is there, it's valid.
13:33:39 <asiekierka> it's so Hideous(e)
13:33:50 <asiekierka> It's more pointless than Screebles. Kudos!
13:34:53 <tusho> hideou.se is a friend's site
13:34:58 <tusho> I wrote that thing a year ago
13:35:02 <tusho> and put it on there because he wanted me to :P
13:35:06 <tusho> He submitted it to digg a year back
13:35:11 <tusho> It got to the fisrt item on the front page
13:35:14 <tusho> with over 600 diggs
13:35:28 <oklopol> tusho: look at the clicker high scorez
13:35:49 <tusho> oklopol: why don't you
13:36:02 <oklopol> fucker
13:36:29 <tusho> :D
13:41:15 <tusho> oklopol: you back yet?
13:42:47 <asiekierka> Okay, brb, must put the Animathed Screeble #0 at YT
13:43:34 <asiekierka> But first
13:43:40 <asiekierka> make the start a little (10 frames) longer
13:43:53 <tusho> oklopol
13:43:56 <tusho> if you get to #1
13:44:02 <tusho> i will send you a cheque
13:44:05 <tusho> for £20.
13:45:24 <tusho> oklopol: deal?
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13:54:15 <oklopol> tusho: sure :)
13:54:36 <oklopol> but not just now, later tonight
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13:58:47 <tusho> oklopol: what do you finns use as a currency anyhoo
13:58:59 <Deewiant>
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14:00:25 <tusho> oh
14:00:29 <tusho> crazy europeans
14:00:46 <tusho> okay so that's 25 euros, cool.
14:05:02 <asiekierka> Oh yay. Uploading an AnimaTHed Screeble :P
14:05:31 -!- tusho has quit.
14:05:56 -!- tusho has joined.
14:06:09 <tusho> Linkinius decided my trial should be over
14:06:11 <tusho> :)
14:06:19 -!- tusho has quit (Client Quit).
14:06:25 <asiekierka> Yes it did :P
14:06:31 -!- tusho has joined.
14:06:44 <tusho> so now
14:06:46 <tusho> i'm back to colloquy :D
14:06:48 <tusho> Isn't that GRAND?
14:07:54 <asiekierka> Maybe
14:08:30 <tusho> Yes.
14:08:31 <tusho> Yes it is.
14:09:52 <asiekierka> Possibly.
14:09:59 <asiekierka> ... Ok i'll stop.
14:10:08 <asiekierka> Well, it's currently processing that screeble thing
14:10:20 <asiekierka> no wait
14:10:23 <asiekierka> it's there
14:10:28 <tusho> Give me a link!
14:10:31 <tusho> It'll be jewtastic.
14:10:34 <asiekierka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_p_cxNU_w
14:10:39 <asiekierka> STOPMOTIONED
14:10:46 <tusho> Mmm... Jews...
14:11:09 <tusho> I like it.
14:11:20 <asiekierka> It's not
14:11:37 <asiekierka> also, lol subliminal
14:12:07 <tusho> brb
14:12:08 -!- tusho has quit ("And then-").
14:12:19 -!- tusho has joined.
14:12:21 <asiekierka> Ok
14:12:32 <tusho> ZOUNDS
14:12:52 <tusho> i did
14:12:52 <tusho> honest
14:12:53 -!- megatron has joined.
14:12:58 <AnMaster> hm where is ais?
14:13:05 <tusho> IT'S SATURDAY
14:13:06 <tusho> IT'S SATURDAY
14:13:06 <tusho> IT'S SATURDAY
14:13:07 <tusho> IT'S SATURDAY
14:13:07 <tusho> IT'S SATURDAY
14:13:12 <asiekierka> IT'S SATUSHO
14:13:12 <asiekierka> IT'S SATUSHO
14:13:12 <asiekierka> IT'S SATUSHO
14:13:13 <asiekierka> IT'S SATUSHO
14:13:13 <asiekierka> IT'S SATUSHO
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14:13:28 -!- moozilla has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
14:13:29 -!- megatron has changed nick to moozilla.
14:13:30 <AnMaster> tusho, right, thought it was Sunday he wasn't here at
14:13:41 <tusho> He's here on neither saturday nor sunday.
14:13:47 <asiekierka> :(
14:13:52 <AnMaster> oh well
14:13:57 <asiekierka> I'm going to make another animathed screeble
14:14:00 <asiekierka> What could it be about
14:14:12 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
14:14:12 <asiekierka> Oh!
14:14:13 <asiekierka> Physics+Boxes=P4WNED
14:18:47 -!- Hiato has joined.
14:22:56 <asiekierka> Ugh
14:23:09 <asiekierka> Needed to mount the whiteboard for animathed screebles in a "worse but temporary" way
14:25:43 <oklopol> tusho: also i want a "clicks per second average during last minute"
14:25:50 <tusho> oklopol: dudey. v4.
14:29:45 <oklopol> yes, that was an idea for v4
14:30:00 <oklopol> gotta admit my arms do hurt a bit
14:30:13 <oklopol> but i think it's mainly the fact the comp is in my lap
14:30:54 <tusho> oklopol: v4 will have to be megaoptimized
14:30:58 <tusho> I'll have to fuck with httpd.conf
14:31:01 <tusho> to turn off logging
14:31:05 <tusho> so that the database log is the only one
14:31:16 <tusho> i'll have to set up mysql caches like fuck, too
14:31:23 <tusho> if I want it to sustain with all these features
14:31:36 <tusho> php'll have to go too, need something fast with a non-cgi model
14:34:03 <tusho> oklopol: wow. you are a hero
14:34:09 <tusho> you were at like 30 beforehand
14:34:22 <AnMaster> tusho, mysql? bah
14:34:25 <AnMaster> postgresql!
14:34:35 <asiekierka> Heh. 32 frames done
14:34:43 <tusho> AnMaster: apps I use require it kthxbai suck a dick. or keep complaining, whatever
14:35:01 <AnMaster> tusho, so do you prefer mysql or postgresql?
14:35:06 <tusho> postgre
14:35:12 <tusho> but I'm not running both mysql and postgresql
14:35:13 <AnMaster> ah good
14:35:18 <tusho> only 256mb, etc.
14:35:28 <tusho> plus, the counter doesn't really need referential integrity.
14:35:29 <AnMaster> right I see
14:35:35 <tusho> it needs speed and iirc you can get mysql to be faster than postgres
14:35:36 <AnMaster> true hah
14:35:40 <tusho> if you let it corrupt like hell
14:36:13 <AnMaster> tusho, what about mnesia?
14:36:15 <asiekierka> 55, getting there
14:36:41 <AnMaster> tusho, ?
14:36:42 <oklopol> 35000
14:36:47 <tusho> AnMaster: tbh I'm not sure _what_ I should use
14:36:57 <AnMaster> tusho, eh?
14:36:58 <oklopol> 13000 till next one :<
14:36:59 <tusho> I need a persistent integer that is incredibly fast to increment,
14:37:07 <AnMaster> hm
14:37:14 <tusho> I need a log of {user,datetime,count_at_time}
14:37:16 <AnMaster> tusho, battery backed RAM :P
14:37:21 <AnMaster> for the integer
14:37:22 <AnMaster> ;)
14:37:24 <tusho> and I need a database of users with simple info
14:37:26 <tusho> and a way to cache statistics
14:37:32 <oklopol> Anya is going down now.
14:37:35 <tusho> from the log
14:37:43 <tusho> like, clicks in 24 hours
14:37:44 <tusho> etc
14:37:47 <tusho> without querying it all the time
14:38:14 <AnMaster> tusho, but still what is your opinion on mnesia?
14:38:32 <tusho> *shrug*. It looks neat.
14:38:35 <tusho> Dunno if it'd be good for this.
14:38:50 <tusho> Really the important thing is that I can do loads of crazy queries on the log, and also cache those to hell
14:38:52 <AnMaster> tusho, well it is erlang only
14:38:56 <tusho> AnMaster: yes I know
14:38:59 <oklopol> lol i just realized i could watch tv shows while pressing the button
14:39:01 <AnMaster> so I guess that won't work for you
14:39:08 <AnMaster> hm
14:39:09 <tusho> oklopol: but then if someone starts
14:39:10 <oklopol> that £20 is mine! :P
14:39:11 <tusho> you need to go faster
14:39:15 <tusho> and you won't know
14:39:18 <tusho> if you're watching a tv show
14:39:22 <oklopol> not fullscreen
14:39:24 <oklopol> oh
14:39:25 <AnMaster> hm
14:39:26 <oklopol> not on tv either.
14:39:30 <oklopol> i don't have a tv
14:39:49 <AnMaster> tusho, mnesia in-memory db but that is disk backed
14:39:53 <AnMaster> *maybe*
14:40:04 <tusho> AnMaster: i'd prefer not to tie myself to erlang, really
14:40:06 <AnMaster> of course you need a lot of ram
14:40:11 <tusho> 'cause I'd have to learn erlang and stuff :D
14:40:11 <tusho> and
14:40:12 <AnMaster> which you said you didn't have
14:40:13 <tusho> 256mb of ram
14:40:26 <tusho> of which 171mb is used.
14:40:32 <tusho> err
14:40:32 <tusho> hm
14:40:36 <tusho> no
14:40:39 <tusho> 151mb is used
14:40:40 <tusho> so 102mb is free
14:41:00 <AnMaster> ok, I see your point
14:41:07 <AnMaster> hrrm....
14:42:03 <AnMaster> tusho, for that persisting number, write out the current number every 20 seconds to a file?
14:42:12 <AnMaster> use two files and rotate them if you wish
14:42:15 <tusho> AnMaster: more than 20 seconds, how about every minute
14:42:19 <AnMaster> tusho, fine
14:42:20 <tusho> but yes, that seems reasonable
14:42:25 <tusho> what about crashes though
14:42:29 <tusho> say it gets on digg
14:42:30 <tusho> and stuff
14:42:35 <tusho> so it's incrementing 100 every update
14:42:36 <tusho> (really happened)
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14:42:38 <tusho> if it crashes
14:42:42 <tusho> it loses a minutes worth of clicks.
14:42:48 <AnMaster> tusho, well you would loose the last minute one and have to rebuild from user list?
14:42:49 <tusho> 6000 clicks.
14:42:58 <tusho> AnMaster: that could take _hours_
14:43:08 <AnMaster> tusho, you expect that many users?
14:43:20 <tusho> AnMaster: it's not like it's going to go down
14:43:26 <tusho> so after a year, the log will be _freaking huge_
14:43:31 <AnMaster> err
14:43:35 <tusho> and rebuilding from the users table is a map reduce
14:43:41 <AnMaster> store on the db: {user, click count}
14:43:44 <tusho> yes
14:43:44 <tusho> i know
14:43:45 <AnMaster> maybe?
14:43:48 <tusho> mapReduce clicks (+) users
14:43:52 <tusho> even so
14:44:01 <tusho> AnMaster: say it takes just 10 minutes
14:44:07 <AnMaster> well
14:44:08 <tusho> well, in those 10 minutes, it'll drop off digg.
14:44:17 <AnMaster> two distributed nodes
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14:44:22 <tusho> AnMaster: i'm not using erlang
14:44:24 <AnMaster> in different data centers
14:44:28 <tusho> ha, as if
14:44:35 <AnMaster> tusho, no but you can do such stuff in C too, MPI iirc
14:44:45 <tusho> different data centers = lol
14:44:54 <tusho> this machine is a virtualized Xen machine
14:44:56 <tusho> a VPS :)
14:45:01 <AnMaster> ah right....
14:45:04 <tusho> $20/mo, I'm not buying more shit just for a counter
14:45:05 <tusho> :D
14:45:12 <asiekierka> 80-something frames for AnimaTHed Screeble #1 (the one before was #0)
14:45:12 <AnMaster> hehhe
14:45:29 <AnMaster> tusho, so... what are you going to do?
14:45:32 <tusho> a counter costing like $1,000 a month would be hilarious though
14:45:40 <tusho> AnMaster: dunno, probably use benchmarking tools to fuck it
14:45:43 <AnMaster> tusho, counter-cluster?
14:45:46 <tusho> and pick something that works decently
14:45:47 <AnMaster> ;P
14:45:49 <tusho> :D
14:45:52 <AnMaster> sounds like a game
14:45:54 <AnMaster> not sure why
14:46:03 <tusho> counter-cluster... instead of clustering things together
14:46:06 <tusho> you have to uncluster them
14:46:08 <AnMaster> haha
14:46:09 <tusho> like
14:46:13 <tusho> anti-puzzle-bobble
14:46:18 <AnMaster> oh wait sounds like counter strike
14:46:23 <AnMaster> that is why it sounded like a game
14:46:31 <tusho> AnMaster: puzzle bobble: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Puzzle_Bobble.png
14:46:38 <tusho> you have to shoot the things into three and then they drop, essentially
14:46:40 <tusho> so it'd be like...
14:46:42 <tusho> they start clustered
14:46:46 <tusho> and you have to knock them apart
14:46:52 <AnMaster> well sounds like frozen bubble
14:46:55 <tusho> yes
14:46:55 <AnMaster> or looks like rather
14:46:57 <tusho> frozen bubble is a clone
14:46:59 <tusho> :)
14:47:07 <AnMaster> yeah I tried the clone
14:47:12 <AnMaster> but really not my type of game
14:47:37 <AnMaster> and there are more clones, I saw someone playing a flash version of it on some "free games site" recently
14:47:46 <AnMaster> "yeti bubbles" I think it was called
14:47:50 <AnMaster> or something like that
14:48:00 <AnMaster> anyway
14:48:19 <AnMaster> tusho, what extra features do you plan to add?
14:48:32 <AnMaster> that means the current way isn't enough
14:48:35 <tusho> AnMaster: user profiles with lots of graph porn and statistics
14:48:43 <tusho> general graph porn and statistics and listings
14:48:50 <tusho> (like highest "atm" and highest all time, etc)
14:48:56 <tusho> maybe rounds
14:48:58 <tusho> where like
14:49:04 <tusho> the person with the most when the counter gets to N wins
14:49:09 <tusho> and then gets their name displayed in the "Winners"
14:49:11 <AnMaster> oh you mean rate of clickage over the average 24-hour period and such?
14:49:12 <tusho> uhh, a faster UI
14:49:17 <tusho> AnMaster: stuff like that, yeah
14:49:21 <tusho> and also
14:49:24 <tusho> not based on ajax polls
14:49:24 <AnMaster> oh god
14:49:24 <tusho> right now
14:49:30 <tusho> it makes 3 ajax requests
14:49:32 <tusho> every .5 seconds
14:49:35 <tusho> which do a database request each
14:49:43 <tusho> and each increment is 3 database queries
14:49:44 <tusho> "yikes"
14:49:48 <tusho> so I'll base it on comet/push
14:49:54 <tusho> and optimize the increment
14:49:59 <AnMaster> tusho, you know how bad this is from an ergonomic perspective?
14:50:10 <tusho> AnMaster: What, clicking something repeatedly?
14:50:12 <tusho> Yeah. :)
14:50:14 <AnMaster> yes...
14:50:17 <tusho> I'm working for the RSI medication companies.
14:50:20 <tusho> You got me.
14:50:22 <AnMaster> tusho, you should put up a warning about it
14:50:28 <tusho> AnMaster: No, this way, people get RSI
14:50:32 <tusho> and they go to the companies for treatment
14:50:36 <tusho> And I get a load of cash!
14:50:48 <AnMaster> tusho, thankfully you can click using enter after selecting the button with tab in my browser
14:50:58 <AnMaster> a bit better
14:51:02 <tusho> AnMaster: its not a button any more
14:51:05 <tusho> its just a span with styling
14:51:08 <tusho> but enter is actually coded in
14:51:10 <tusho> as a JS event
14:51:18 <AnMaster> tusho, what will happen on enter?
14:51:18 <tusho> See, it's not a button any more because otherwise you could hold enter.
14:51:20 <tusho> But you can't any more.
14:51:22 <tusho> AnMaster: increment
14:51:27 <AnMaster> so it does the same?
14:51:37 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, if you notice you'll notice that if you hold enter
14:51:39 <tusho> it only does it once
14:51:45 <tusho> that's cause my coding checks for keyup
14:51:48 <tusho> until it lets enter do it again
14:51:57 <tusho> anyway if anyone needs a WARNING telling them that repeatedly clicking something over and over again gives them RSI they deserve it :D
14:52:05 <AnMaster> tusho, can't tab select it any more
14:52:08 <AnMaster> nor use enter
14:52:08 <AnMaster> weird
14:52:12 <tusho> AnMaster: if you click the document
14:52:14 <tusho> you can use enter
14:52:16 <tusho> click in the space
14:53:32 <AnMaster> tusho, I got 2 keyboard around :)
14:53:45 <tusho> Does it work now, though? :P
14:53:57 <AnMaster> yes it does
14:54:03 <tusho> Yay.
14:54:15 <tusho> AnMaster: you'll notice that even though the fake-button is just a regular bit of text
14:54:17 <tusho> you can't select the text
14:54:25 <tusho> (Reason being: double clicking selects word/line in most browsers)
14:54:27 <tusho> So it was distracting.
14:54:38 <tusho> If you look at the source you'll see the non-standard properties I used to do that. :P
14:55:02 <AnMaster> that is just for firefox
14:55:11 <tusho> no, opera and safari too
14:55:15 <tusho> note .button:selection
14:55:16 <tusho> a bit down
14:55:21 <tusho> dunno about konqueror
14:55:25 <tusho> webkit(safari) is based on khtml
14:55:28 <tusho> so i guess it probably works
14:55:53 <AnMaster> anyway I don't plan to do more than that
14:55:56 <AnMaster> not good
14:55:56 <asiekierka> i'm done with #1
14:55:58 <asiekierka> upping soon
14:56:48 <asiekierka> Heh
15:00:58 <oklopol> another vjn member started playing
15:01:40 <tusho> who
15:01:44 <oklopol> coolness
15:01:50 <tusho> ah yes
15:02:01 <tusho> he's dropped off the high scores?
15:02:03 <oklopol> he's the master of this kind of games
15:02:09 <tusho> oh no
15:02:10 <tusho> there
15:02:13 <oklopol> no, 17 and rising
15:02:30 <oklopol> and definitely manual, but he can play this for hours on end
15:05:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there?
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15:09:02 <asiekierka> Hello
15:09:13 <asiekierka> I'm going to upload the next animaTHed Screeble soon
15:09:44 <AnMaster> you said that before
15:11:13 <tusho> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2112529755533998573&q=cube+in+color&total=547&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0/ I like this movie.
15:11:35 <asiekierka> But this one meant i'm going to upload it sooner
15:11:39 <asiekierka> And i'm upping it right now.
15:12:07 <asiekierka> *DING* UPLOADED! Now let the YouTube server process the AnimaTHion. As the name of "animation" costs 2x more than the name of "comic
15:12:08 <asiekierka> "
15:13:26 <asiekierka> That one had 171 frames (including duplicates) and was at 15 FPS, not 24 FPS. 24 FPS animation is pain anyway and it doesn't give that much improvement from 15 FPS anyway
15:13:33 <AnMaster> it costs?
15:13:40 <AnMaster> what the heck are you talking about?
15:13:53 <asiekierka> Tusho.
15:14:00 <asiekierka> I'm talking to tusho and his weird imagination.
15:14:05 <asiekierka> It was a joke he made up
15:14:08 <asiekierka> that isn't even funny
15:14:22 <asiekierka> Oh
15:14:23 <asiekierka> and
15:14:24 <asiekierka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3QUGjRfLCk
15:14:35 <AnMaster> well he is 12 years old, not very odd
15:14:45 <tusho> AnMaster: rodgerthegreat argued with me for ages
15:14:48 <tusho> about how what I made weren't comics
15:14:56 <AnMaster> I agree with him
15:14:59 <tusho> and how about my continued calling them comics was "denigerating the classification"
15:15:11 <tusho> which is true of course, you have to pay £5,000,00
15:15:14 <tusho> *000
15:15:16 <tusho> to call something a comic
15:15:22 <tusho> also, AnMaster, I am 13.
15:15:32 <psygnisfive> he turned 13 yesterday
15:15:37 <psygnisfive> where've you been anmaster
15:15:54 <oerjan> stuck in a time loop somewhere
15:16:02 <psygnisfive> damn time loops
15:16:25 <oerjan> i already rembered you saying that
15:16:29 <oerjan> *remembered
15:17:05 <oerjan> which makes me wonder, what is the opposite of deja vu
15:17:25 <tusho> oerjan: uv ajed
15:18:05 * oerjan beats the word "opposite" with a mallet for obnoxious ambiguity
15:18:29 <asiekierka> actually, it can be ajed uv too
15:19:15 <psygnisfive> yeah, english has changed a lot, oerjan.
15:19:31 <asiekierka> Soz
15:19:32 <psygnisfive> you were only gone for a few hours our time, but since you left and got stuck in the time loop
15:19:43 <asiekierka> So... How's that new animathed screeble (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3QUGjRfLCk)
15:19:44 <psygnisfive> there's be a revolution and a significant reform of the language
15:19:48 <asiekierka> Is it better than #0
15:19:50 <psygnisfive> i speak in the old tongue for your convenience
15:20:15 <oerjan> no no, that was AnMaster. my time loop is far more sinister than that.
15:21:38 <psygnisfive> its still happened!
15:23:05 <oerjan> no, it's unhappened. you are looking at it from the wrong direction
15:23:28 <psygnisfive> im look back, into the future!
15:23:40 <psygnisfive> speaking of
15:24:12 <psygnisfive> did you know that not every culture/language conceptualizes the past as "behind" and the future as "ahead"?
15:24:42 <psygnisfive> not even English! tho its rare that we think of it in these alternate terms.
15:27:46 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, ah right
15:28:46 <psygnisfive> man
15:28:50 <psygnisfive> seriously
15:28:58 <psygnisfive> language is crazy D:
15:29:05 -!- asiekierka has quit.
15:33:57 <psygnisfive> oi! oklopol!
15:37:06 -!- oerjan has quit ("Argh, the pain! Au chocolat!").
15:37:47 <AnMaster> double.c:11: warning: declaration does not declare anything
15:37:48 <AnMaster> wtf
15:38:16 <psygnisfive> that'll teach you to use c
15:38:47 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, not my code
15:38:58 <psygnisfive> so? :P
15:39:27 <AnMaster> some code that ais wrote yesterday quickly to show how some stuff was done (addition of two int to simulate a long by hand, needed for something I'm doing)
15:39:36 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net/
15:39:41 <psygnisfive> check out the poem there
15:39:44 <AnMaster> anyway found the issue
15:39:55 <psygnisfive> a poetic proof of the halting problem! :D
15:39:58 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, I don't like poems, I prefer prose
15:40:11 <psygnisfive> prose is a kind of poetry.
15:40:15 <psygnisfive> don't be so ignorant.
15:40:39 <AnMaster> as in I prefer normal text
15:40:46 <AnMaster> prose may not be the right English word then
15:40:50 <psygnisfive> i know what you mean by prose
15:40:52 <AnMaster> prosa in Swedish though
15:40:52 <tusho> psygnisfive: AnMaster doesn't like art, basically.
15:40:58 <AnMaster> sure I like art
15:41:00 <tusho> whether in code or other form
15:41:01 <psygnisfive> you mean normal speech
15:41:04 <tusho> well, maybe he likes paintings
15:41:04 <psygnisfive> not rhyme and meter
15:41:08 <tusho> but that's boring
15:41:10 <AnMaster> I just don't like poems, I prefer normal text
15:41:11 <tusho> that's a copout definition of art
15:41:19 <AnMaster> <psygnisfive> you mean normal speech <psygnisfive> not rhyme and meter <-- exactly
15:41:30 <psygnisfive> well i hate to tell you but
15:41:35 <psygnisfive> prose can be poetry too.
15:41:39 <AnMaster> and that is what is called prosa in Swedish at least
15:41:41 <tusho> psygnisfive: how ironic - [[for predicting the acts of computing mamchines.]]
15:41:49 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, depends on what you mean
15:42:15 <psygnisfive> no it doesnt. lol.
15:43:20 <psygnisfive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prose
15:44:02 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, as in the Swedish meaning of the word prosa
15:44:11 <AnMaster> which is what I'm referring to
15:44:17 <psygnisfive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetry#Prose_poetry
15:44:30 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, maybe it have a different meaning in English, fine
15:44:38 <psygnisfive> i dont think it does :)
15:44:51 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, well what word do you suggest for it then?
15:44:58 <psygnisfive> prose!
15:52:04 <psygnisfive> oklopol!
15:53:25 <oklopol> psygnisfive!
15:53:30 <psygnisfive> pm
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16:07:53 <tusho> Supposed openbsd security expert has never heard of entity encoding HTML: http://bofh.ucs.ualberta.ca/javascript-sucks.html
16:07:54 <tusho> Discuss.
16:09:57 <AnMaster> I'm not sure what that page is trying to say...
16:10:00 <AnMaster> it makes no sense
16:17:46 <funktio> ") instruction unloads the semantics for a given fingerprint from any or all of the instructions A to Z (even if that fingerprint had never been loaded before)."
16:17:52 <funktio> could someone clarify what it means to unload something that's never been loaded?
16:19:31 <oklopol> funktio: probably NOP, although i have no idea why explicitly say that if it means nothing
16:20:07 <funktio> oklopol: ok, thanks
16:26:57 <Deewiant> funktio, oklopol: no
16:27:36 <Deewiant> what it means is that if fingerprint FOO defines A, B, and C, and fingerprint BAR defines B and C, then if you load FOO and then unload BAR, you are left with the A from FOO
16:28:53 <funktio> ok
16:29:19 <oklopol> well doesn't really say eithey of those
16:29:28 <oklopol> but yeah that's a more likely interpretation
16:29:36 <Deewiant> there's an example below which clarifies it, IIRC
16:32:35 <tusho> oklopol: I will owe you £20 won't I
16:32:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does mycology test LONG?
16:33:06 <oklopol> tusho: dunno, dunno
16:33:10 <oklopol> who the fuck is that alan?
16:33:28 <oklopol> and do i just have to reach the top for a second?
16:33:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: this file called mycology.b98 exists, and it prints this stuff called 'text' to this thing called 'stdout', and that text says what it does
16:33:40 <AnMaster> ah true
16:35:09 <AnMaster> ah well seems like it doesn't
16:36:00 <tusho> alan redgown is from the same place as all of them
16:36:03 <tusho> :P
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16:47:29 <oklopol> tusho: and where is that?
16:47:33 <oklopol> how is he so fucking fast
16:47:39 <tusho> oklopol: a forum
16:47:42 <tusho> and he's magical
16:51:34 <oklopol> magical?
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17:03:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no response from Mike yet regarding LONG
17:03:10 <AnMaster> and I found other issues in it
17:03:25 <AnMaster> docs say "low" and "high" word
17:03:38 <AnMaster> but which is the most significant one
17:06:33 <tusho> # OneDayIClickedThenIThoughtThisIsCoolClickingIsSoCoolWhatCouldBeCoolerWellNothingCanThatIsHowIThoughtThenIFoundThisCoolPageAndStartedClickingItWasReallyCoolItIsHardToDescribeHowCoolItWasThenIDecidedToSpendMyWholeLifeClickingItIsSoCool (3129)
17:06:35 <tusho> fucking stupid name
17:06:36 <tusho> :q
17:13:54 <oklopol> :D
17:14:16 <tusho> who is it
17:14:55 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:14:59 <tusho> hi ais523
17:15:10 <tusho> you're the last one on http://hideou.se/counter/
17:15:15 <tusho> and alan redgown is at 100001!
17:15:39 <ais523> hi tusho
17:15:41 <ais523> you win
17:15:43 <ais523> I can't stay long, though
17:15:47 <ais523> this place closes at 7, and the door to my department is /still/ broken
17:15:49 <ais523> I saw some workmen trying to fix it a couple of weeks ago too, so it isn't as if they aren't trying
17:16:06 <tusho> # OneDayIClickedThenIThoughtThisIsCoolClickingIsSoCoolWhatCouldBeCoolerWellNothingCanThatIsHowIThoughtThenIFoundThisCoolPageAndStartedClickingItWasReallyCoolItIsHardToDescribeHowCoolItWasThenIDecidedToSpendMyWholeLifeClickingItIsSoCool (5980)
17:16:08 <tusho> might crop that name
17:16:39 <ais523> I'm not even on your top 35 list...
17:16:53 <tusho> ah yes
17:16:56 <tusho> you got butted off it seems
17:17:03 <tusho> "EDIT2: And now I leave the most pointless website ever. It really is a huge waste of time, and I don't plan to do it regularly. Eventually people may get over 1m clicks, but I don't plan to be a part of it. oklopol, whoever you are, good luck on bumping me from my spot. It should happen pretty soon. :)" - Alan Redgown
17:17:08 <ais523> it's pointless trying to play on that website if you can't see how well you did
17:17:16 <tusho> ais523: well you have 2008 clicks
17:17:19 <ais523> tusho: where's that comment made?
17:17:25 <tusho> any less than 2410 clicks is peanuts anyway
17:17:25 <ais523> and more than 2008 now...
17:17:26 <tusho> trivial to get
17:17:32 <tusho> so, might as well just get to the highscores :P
17:17:34 <tusho> ais523: the forum
17:17:38 <tusho> from whence all these people came.
17:17:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, do you plan to implement LONG?
17:17:57 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
17:18:02 <ais523> still I'm worried that there are so many people over 10000
17:18:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: sure
17:18:05 <ais523> and hi AnMaster
17:18:09 <AnMaster> ais523, found out the division thing?
17:18:20 <ais523> AnMaster: I found an implementation in libgcc2.c which comes with gcc
17:18:24 <ais523> I haven't tried to make it work yet though
17:18:27 <ais523> it looks very complicated
17:18:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I recommend you wait for answer from Mike first, he has forgot to say which is the most significant word
17:18:45 <AnMaster> I will CC the mail I'm about to send to you too
17:18:46 <tusho> <ais523> still I'm worried that there are so many people over 10000
17:18:47 <tusho> why?
17:18:49 <tusho> I know none of them cheated
17:19:02 <ais523> tusho: not worried about cheating
17:19:08 <tusho> about what then
17:19:09 <ais523> worried about the amount of time people have put into that thing
17:19:09 <tusho> RSI?
17:19:12 <tusho> :D
17:19:16 <ais523> it's just so... pointless
17:19:22 <tusho> ais523: look at the title bar
17:19:26 <tusho> "the most pointless website ever"
17:19:30 <ais523> tusho: yes, I know
17:19:31 <tusho> ais523: oklopol has an incentive though
17:19:36 <tusho> he was at like #30 earlier today
17:19:38 <tusho> and hadn't clicked much
17:19:39 <AnMaster> ais523, ouch
17:19:40 <tusho> and I said
17:19:42 <tusho> if he got to #1
17:19:46 <tusho> I'd give him £20
17:19:50 <tusho> because I thought he wouldn't be able to
17:19:53 <tusho> since he was at like 3000
17:19:58 <tusho> now he's at 86081...
17:20:01 <oklopol> practising repetition techniques is never a waste of time
17:20:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sent
17:20:12 <tusho> so yea I had better start writing out a cheque..
17:20:18 <oklopol> tusho: when i started, i wasn't on the list
17:20:18 <AnMaster> hope Mike replies soon
17:20:23 <tusho> no you were oklopol
17:20:24 <ais523> tusho: has that counter ever been steady once it got past 1000 or so
17:20:25 <tusho> today you were
17:20:30 <tusho> ais523: occasionally
17:20:32 <ais523> or has it been going up all the time?
17:20:32 <tusho> for like 5 minutes
17:20:52 <tusho> ais523: you have 2118 clicks
17:20:53 <tusho> highscores soon
17:21:06 <ais523> you should show everyone their own score no matter where they are in the rankings
17:21:23 <tusho> that's for v4 kthxbai
17:21:27 <tusho> I don't wanna modify this code too much
17:21:33 <ais523> incidentally you're not too far off 1000000
17:21:35 <ais523> total
17:21:47 <AnMaster> ais523, I have implemented the 32-bit version of LONG mostly, waiting for your divrem for the 64-bit
17:21:58 <ais523> AnMaster: did my multiply work?
17:22:13 <AnMaster> ais523, ah well haven't tested it yet, however the file didn't work right away
17:22:16 <ais523> I didn't test it
17:22:18 <ais523> either
17:22:22 <AnMaster> for example you have ; in the #defines at the top
17:22:24 <ais523> and I'm not convinced it handles negatives correctly
17:22:32 <ais523> AnMaster: well I never compiled it, I was just writing it in a hurry
17:22:33 <AnMaster> that caused some... unusual... compiler error
17:22:37 <AnMaster> errors*
17:22:43 <ais523> and yes, it would do
17:22:56 <ais523> sometimes you can even get away with stray ;s scattered through your program
17:23:19 <AnMaster> ais523, also you use a == a_abs, doesn't work
17:23:25 <AnMaster> you can't compare structs like that
17:23:43 <tusho> "Wow, oklopol has passed sqrt. I guess he really is going to the top." - alan
17:23:43 <AnMaster> err !=
17:23:44 <tusho> you betcha
17:23:45 <ais523> yes you can, I think, if all the values in them are direct integers not pointers or things like that
17:23:45 <AnMaster> dm_compare(a,a_abs) != 0 compiles however
17:23:50 <tusho> he's in it for the £20
17:23:51 <tusho> :P
17:23:58 <AnMaster> ais523, well gcc didn't like it
17:24:00 <tusho> <ais523>yes you can, I think, if all the values in them are direct integers not pointers or things like that
17:24:01 <tusho> no
17:24:17 <ais523> hmm I must have muddled it with something else
17:24:25 <ais523> but yes, dm_compare was designed for it
17:24:37 <oklopol> hehe, trick of the mind ended in derren brown totally failing a stunt :P
17:24:56 <oklopol> but damnit, i need to find something else to watch
17:25:16 <ais523> tusho: I think it'll reach 1000000 in the next minute
17:25:19 <ais523> may be worth watching
17:25:23 <tusho> Cool.
17:25:26 <tusho> You should help it along.
17:25:29 <ais523> I am
17:25:34 <tusho> 2281...
17:25:35 <AnMaster> ais523, another issue, ascii to long, ie atol() for this custom long
17:25:36 <AnMaster> hrrm
17:25:42 <ais523> ok, it passed 1000000
17:25:44 <tusho> yay
17:25:45 <tusho> there we go
17:25:54 <oklopol> hmmhmm
17:25:58 <oklopol> about 15000 to go
17:26:07 <oklopol> that should take like, 40 minutes?
17:26:08 <ais523> AnMaster: you can do that with the usual trick, read digits from the left one at a time and add, multiply by ten before you read each digit
17:26:11 <oklopol> well, here goes
17:26:14 <AnMaster> ah yes
17:26:40 <AnMaster> ais523, actually I already do something like that to handle unusual bases for the BASE fingerprint
17:27:07 <AnMaster> static const char digits[] = "0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz";
17:27:42 <AnMaster> (strchr(digits, c) - digits)
17:27:49 <ais523> tusho: who got the millionth click?
17:27:54 <tusho> ais523: No idea.
17:27:59 <ais523> AnMaster: could be interesting
17:28:04 <ais523> tusho: it's one select in MySQL, isn't it
17:28:09 <tusho> ais523: no, it only logs user and date
17:28:12 <tusho> not what it made the click
17:28:12 <ais523> if you have a million-row database storing all the clicks
17:28:17 <ais523> tusho: sort by date
17:28:21 <ais523> unless it isn't accurate enough
17:28:29 <tusho> ais523: i don't know when the millionth click was.
17:28:44 <ais523> tusho: you can ORDER BY date then take the millionth item of the resulting list
17:28:45 <AnMaster> tusho, well you do
17:28:49 <tusho> ais523: ah yes
17:29:01 <tusho> grr
17:29:02 <tusho> OneDayIClickedThenIThoughtThisIsCoolClickingIsSoCoolWhatCouldBeCoolerWellNothingCanThatIsHowIThoughtThenIFoundThisCoolPageAndStartedClickingItWasReallyCoolItIsHardToDescribeHowCoolItWasThenIDecidedToSpendMyWholeLifeClickingItIsSoCool
17:29:04 <tusho> isn't reading my notice
17:29:45 <ais523> tusho: it's probably scrolled off the bottom of the screen
17:29:46 <tusho> now it's red
17:29:48 <tusho> and bold
17:29:49 <tusho> and flashing
17:29:56 <ais523> and I don't see the <blink>
17:30:05 <ais523> but I have to scroll down to see it
17:30:10 <ais523> probably it's worth moving it higher up the page
17:30:22 <tusho> tada
17:31:47 <oklopol> you made him sad! :P
17:32:07 <tusho> why
17:32:12 <tusho> do you know who it is?
17:38:29 <tusho> oklopol: damn
17:38:32 <tusho> you are really gonna get #1
17:38:41 <tusho> now, uh, where's my chequebook?
17:38:49 <AnMaster> tusho, does a 12 year old have one?
17:38:54 <AnMaster> ;P
17:38:57 <AnMaster> err
17:38:58 <AnMaster> 13
17:39:00 <AnMaster> but almost
17:39:02 <tusho> AnMaster: that's the second time you have made that mistake today
17:39:03 <tusho> :D
17:39:09 <ais523> AnMaster: in the UK you can request cheques at a bank even if you don't have a chequebook
17:39:12 <ais523> they print one off for you
17:39:18 <AnMaster> interesting
17:39:39 <AnMaster> I don't have a chequebook, because I can't see any use for one
17:39:40 <tusho> yes, I was being silly with the chequebook thing
17:40:09 <tusho> oklopol: you'll need to /msg me your address if you want this cheque :P
17:40:19 <tusho> don't worry, I won't stalk you _too_ much
17:41:03 <ais523> anyway, I spent most of last night working on a new lang
17:41:08 <tusho> ais523: ooh!
17:41:11 <AnMaster> ais523, feather?
17:41:12 <ais523> it's designed to compile into brainfuck, which is nothing unusual
17:41:24 <ais523> the interesting part is that it's also designed so that gcc can produce it as output
17:41:38 <ais523> I learnt gcc over the past couple of days and am now trying to make it a C -> BF converter
17:41:46 <tusho> ah yes
17:42:14 <AnMaster> ais523, you need to compile gcc against a backend right?
17:42:20 <ais523> AnMaster: that's it
17:42:23 <AnMaster> you can't select a backend at runtime?
17:42:25 <ais523> I'm writing the bf-unknown-none backend
17:42:30 <ais523> and no, you select it at gcc compile time
17:42:30 <AnMaster> ais523, ?
17:42:33 <AnMaster> argh
17:42:39 <AnMaster> well that makes it less interesting
17:42:43 <AnMaster> compiling gcc isn't fun
17:42:44 <ais523> why?
17:42:44 <oklopol> tusho: like home address?
17:42:55 <tusho> oklopol: unless you want the cheque to go somewhere else I guess :P
17:43:06 <tusho> AnMaster: compiilng css takes 15 minutes
17:43:07 <tusho> *gcc
17:43:20 <ais523> and compiling gcc is easy; apt-get source gcc-4.2, sudo apt-get build-dep gcc-4.2, configure, make, install
17:43:20 <AnMaster> tusho, half an hour on my cpu
17:44:39 <AnMaster> ais523, not easy
17:45:11 <ais523> AnMaster: what goes wrong for you when you try it, it compiles for me just the same way as any other program
17:45:45 <AnMaster> ../gcc4.2/configure --prefix=$HOME/local/gcc-bf --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-multilib --with-arch=k8 --with-tune=k8
17:45:49 <AnMaster> something like that at least
17:45:56 <AnMaster> $ llvm-gcc -v
17:45:56 <AnMaster> Using built-in specs.
17:45:56 <AnMaster> Target: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
17:45:56 <AnMaster> Configured with: ../llvm-gcc4.2-2.3.source/configure --prefix=/home/arvid/local/llvm --program-prefix=llvm- --enable-llvm=/home/arvid/local/llvm --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-shared --disable-multilib --with-arch=k8 --with-tune=k8
17:46:12 <AnMaster> or want the system GCC?
17:46:17 <ais523> that's a bit of a complicated configure line
17:46:24 <AnMaster> ais523, yes it is
17:46:31 <AnMaster> ais523, system gcc is worse
17:46:32 <AnMaster> Configured with: /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.1.2/work/gcc-4.1.2/configure --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.1.2 --includedir=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/include --datadir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2 --mandir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/man --infodir=/usr/share/gcc-data/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/info --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr
17:46:33 <AnMaster> /lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/include/g++-v4 --host=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --disable-altivec --enable-nls --without-included-gettext --with-system-zlib --disable-checking --disable-werror --enable-secureplt --enable-multilib --enable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgcj --enable-objc-gc --enable-languages=c,c++,d,objc,treelang,fortran --enable-shared --enable-thre
17:46:34 <AnMaster> ads=posix --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu
17:46:41 <ais523> I just used --with-languages=c --target=bf
17:46:49 <AnMaster> ais523, well see what I pasted
17:46:53 <ais523> although it doesn't compile yet because i haven't finished writing it
17:46:58 <ais523> oh and I added a --target too
17:47:07 <ais523> sorry, I meant --prefix
17:47:12 <ais523> but that's not unusual
17:47:32 <AnMaster> ais523, well what do you think of the system GCC one?
17:47:56 <ais523> I think it's unnecessarily complicated, it's the sort of thing a Gentoo user would come up with
17:48:02 <AnMaster> ais523, not a gentoo user
17:48:08 <AnMaster> it is the gentoo ebuild that created that line
17:48:11 <ais523> surely configure should be detecting those things rather than being told them?
17:48:18 <AnMaster> ais523, depends
17:48:41 <AnMaster> ais523, nop for most
17:48:49 <tusho> "it's the sort of thing a Gentoo user would come up with" hear hear
17:48:54 <tusho> can't stand most gentoo users
17:49:31 <AnMaster> --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --disable-checking --disable-werror --enable-multilib --disable-altivec
17:49:36 <AnMaster> those are redundant I think
17:49:44 <tusho> Disable -Werror?
17:49:46 <tusho> Whyever?
17:49:50 <AnMaster> tusho, no clue
17:49:53 <AnMaster> I didn't write that
17:50:12 <AnMaster> tusho, I recommend you check the GCC ebuild
17:50:19 <tusho> Whatever.
17:50:23 <AnMaster> there is a viewvc somewhere if you don't have gentoo
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17:58:50 <ais523> anyway, what do people here think of the concept? has anyone tried it before/
17:58:53 <ais523> s/\//?/
17:59:07 <tusho> i think it's an awesome idea
17:59:09 <tusho> and probably
18:00:46 <dogface> It's a wonderful idea.
18:01:22 <dogface> What's your idea?
18:03:04 <oklopol> okay tusho watch your £20 go
18:04:06 <tusho> i'm watchin'
18:05:09 <oklopol> done
18:05:12 <tusho> oklopol: YOU DID IT
18:05:25 <oklopol> yes
18:05:38 <oklopol> i'm pretty awesome
18:06:27 <tusho> http://img.skitch.com/20080823-rwguwenystj943xjmsbebrmntr.png
18:06:59 <tusho> oklopol:
18:07:02 <tusho> don't you want to, uh
18:07:07 <tusho> get more than _one_ above alan?
18:07:07 <tusho> :p
18:07:08 <tusho> oh wait
18:07:10 <tusho> he said he'd stop
18:07:12 <tusho> so you're safe
18:07:37 <ais523> it's interesting to see which numbers people stopped at
18:07:38 <oklopol> well what do i care, once you said you were gonna pay me £20, i decided that's my goal
18:07:59 <oklopol> i'm trying to get coolness to get a nick @ 10404
18:08:00 <tusho> ais523: BeatlesLover stopped at 12345 a while back
18:08:12 <oklopol> because he already has 100^2 and 101^2
18:08:30 <oklopol> but he may disappear now, ofc, that i told tusho there's multinicking going on :P
18:08:35 <tusho> no
18:08:39 <tusho> I don't care about multinicking
18:08:40 <oklopol> that's ok?
18:08:45 <tusho> yes
18:08:50 <ais523> obviously, it just lowers your score
18:08:54 <ais523> as long as you aren't cheating
18:09:17 <oklopol> sure, but you can fill the whole list
18:09:28 <ais523> anyway, gcc seems to make certain assumptions which are wrong
18:09:35 <ais523> for instance that you can execute code on the stack
18:09:45 <tusho> ais523: just make it so that you can, then
18:09:51 <AnMaster> ais523, I almost implemented a GCC specific version of LONG for 128-bit, just to see if it was feasible
18:09:59 <ais523> and that frame pointers for old frames will be stored in memory somewhere
18:10:02 <AnMaster> it is same as the 32-bit one except a few lines
18:10:11 <AnMaster> of course __int128_t is very non-standard
18:10:17 <ais523> tusho: nah, I'm doing it with my own architecture, which is saner for BF use
18:10:21 <ais523> I'm trying to be reasonably optimal
18:10:26 <tusho> ais523: aww
18:10:28 <tusho> so no gcc?
18:10:32 <ais523> tusho: yes, so gcc
18:10:37 <ais523> I just looked at what would be broken
18:10:38 <tusho> oh
18:10:38 <tusho> okay
18:10:42 <ais523> and it was just gcc-specific extensions
18:10:48 <ais523> not C standard stuff at all
18:10:57 <AnMaster> <ais523> it's interesting to see which numbers people stopped at
18:11:04 <ais523> to be specific, I've broken __builtin_frame_address and nested functions
18:11:05 <AnMaster> ais523, can you see what one I stopped at then
18:11:07 <AnMaster> what it mean
18:11:10 <ais523> neither of which I've ever seen used
18:11:18 <ais523> AnMaster: IRC default port
18:11:19 <oklopol> i feel kinda empty now that i'm on top
18:11:22 <AnMaster> ais523, good :)
18:11:33 <oklopol> what will i do now :<
18:11:51 <AnMaster> oklopol, implement feather after ais523 write some specs for it? ;D
18:12:01 <tusho> oklopol: hmm
18:12:07 <tusho> i could make it so that your clicks go backwards
18:12:10 <tusho> and you could get to 0
18:12:19 <ais523> tusho: just add the decrement button
18:12:23 <AnMaster> tusho, and below?
18:12:25 <ais523> and have a low scores table
18:12:30 <AnMaster> wait I got an idea
18:12:35 <tusho> ais523: it just hangs around the current score, I tried that when it was on digg before
18:12:35 <ais523> for people to get into the negatives
18:12:35 <AnMaster> IP over counter
18:12:37 <tusho> it just stayed near 0
18:12:38 <AnMaster> tusho, ^
18:12:41 <tusho> AnMaster: ouch
18:12:57 <AnMaster> tusho, you use several logins to handle all the data
18:13:21 <AnMaster> bandwidth will be low, and delay huge
18:13:33 <AnMaster> still, I like the idea
18:13:34 <tusho> omg
18:13:37 <tusho> oklopol is still clicking
18:13:42 <oklopol> :--)
18:13:46 <ais523> anyway my BF generation strategy assumes that things like strings of a million > in a row are reasonably efficient
18:13:52 <tusho> oklopol: get to 123456
18:13:53 <oklopol> well after 100000 clicks it kinda feels like the natural thing to do
18:13:57 <oklopol> i was thinking about that
18:14:04 <tusho> oklopol: yeah do it
18:14:05 <tusho> :D
18:14:08 <ais523> it sort of relies on the interp doing run-length optimisation, most of the fast ones do anyway
18:14:10 <AnMaster> oklopol, how does your hand feel?
18:14:19 <oklopol> AnMaster: i'm a pianist, i don't feel a thing
18:14:38 <tusho> pianists get magical powers
18:14:38 <AnMaster> hahah
18:15:02 <oklopol> and not "hand", "hands"
18:15:03 <AnMaster> but still that is a lot more difference
18:15:10 <AnMaster> oklopol, two mice?
18:15:19 <oklopol> two hands, one button
18:15:24 <oklopol> i have a laptop
18:15:28 <AnMaster> oklopol, ah ok
18:15:29 <AnMaster> hm
18:15:32 * ais523 wonders how many mice could be connected to a computer at once
18:15:33 <AnMaster> that is less click dept
18:15:36 <ais523> probably a huge number
18:15:36 <AnMaster> depth*
18:15:41 <ais523> so everyone can cooperate with the clicking
18:15:45 <oklopol> it's almost twice as big as a normal key
18:15:50 <tusho> ais523: that's called "shared account".
18:15:53 <tusho> or digg/digg
18:15:56 <oklopol> the mousebutton that is
18:16:01 <AnMaster> ais523, using usb I believe 128 per host interface thingy
18:16:05 <AnMaster> or 127
18:16:08 <AnMaster> or something like that
18:16:27 <AnMaster> actually 127 units per host interface
18:16:40 <AnMaster> so 126 + one 126-port usb hub
18:16:40 <oklopol> what's that game where like 5 people touch this stone and it starts moving and writing shit
18:16:48 <AnMaster> of course you can have several host interfaces
18:16:49 <AnMaster> so a lot
18:16:51 <AnMaster> ais523, ^
18:16:59 <oklopol> you could do that with multiple mice :D
18:17:08 <oklopol> like, everyone tries not to move it
18:17:15 <oklopol> hmm, prolly wouldn't work the same way
18:17:27 <ais523> you'd need tactile feedback for it to work properly
18:17:31 <oklopol> yes
18:17:33 <ais523> mice with motors in to move the mouse around
18:17:37 <tusho> anyway
18:17:38 <AnMaster> lol
18:17:40 <oklopol> yeah, i just realized that
18:17:46 <tusho> ais523: are you good at optimizing perl code for speed :P
18:18:03 <ais523> tusho: not as good as for size, but much better than at optimising Mathematica for speed
18:18:06 <tusho> version 4 is gonna need huge optimization to be able to survive in the long run
18:18:18 <ais523> my attempts to optimise Mathematica made it go slower, generally speaking
18:18:20 <tusho> the actual counter will just be a number in memory that is persisted to disk every now and then
18:18:26 <tusho> and the users database can be a fairly regular thing
18:18:29 <tusho> the problem is the log
18:18:37 <tusho> {user,datetime,new_number}
18:18:41 <ais523> tusho: why do you need a log?
18:18:43 <tusho> a list of like 10 million of them
18:18:45 <tusho> in the long run
18:18:46 <tusho> ais523: statistics
18:18:56 <tusho> this thing will have tons of lists, tons of little tidbits, graph porn all over the place.
18:18:57 <oklopol> anti-bot, for isntance
18:18:59 <oklopol> *instance
18:19:00 <ais523> tusho: why not just generate the statistics rather than the log then?
18:19:09 <tusho> ais523: what if i wanna add a new kind of statistics
18:19:11 <tusho> besides
18:19:16 <tusho> a lot of them will amount to logging anyway
18:19:24 <oklopol> liek what?
18:19:44 <tusho> like "user's current activity/user's activity of all time"
18:19:48 <tusho> etc
18:19:54 <tusho> generating all the statistics
18:19:57 <tusho> will use more space than the log
18:19:58 <tusho> ais523: anyway
18:20:00 <tusho> storing the log isn't hard
18:20:03 <tusho> it's querying it fast
18:20:07 <tusho> it needs caches all over the place
18:20:12 <tusho> and loads of indexy things.
18:20:25 <tusho> i am unconvinced that a relational database is good for the log
18:20:28 <tusho> but a flatfile certainly isn't
18:20:33 <ais523> well querying it fast depends on what you want to do
18:20:40 <ais523> and you want a flat indexed database, really
18:20:45 <ais523> relational is pretty pointless for this
18:20:50 <ais523> but indexes are useful
18:21:05 <tusho> ais523: query the latest N log entries for a user. query *all* the log entries for a user (to display an "all time" graph)
18:21:15 <tusho> query all the entries on day/year/month/hour N.
18:21:23 <ais523> you almost certainly want a primary index on user
18:21:26 <tusho> etc
18:21:30 <ais523> and an index on date too
18:21:34 <tusho> ais523: and new click
18:21:38 <ais523> separate indexes, I think, probably
18:21:38 <tusho> and unroll it like this
18:21:44 <ais523> but yes, indexing all 3 fields would be helpful
18:21:50 <ais523> actually, new click is a natural key
18:21:56 <ais523> so you'd have it as primary key in the DB
18:21:57 <tusho> {user_id,year,month,day,hour,minute,second,milisecond,new_value}
18:22:01 <ais523> and index the other two
18:22:03 <tusho> and then indexes on every single one of them
18:22:03 <tusho> BUT
18:22:05 <tusho> with all those indexes
18:22:11 <tusho> it'll be taking a HUGE fucking amount of disk space
18:22:15 <ais523> tusho: just use a datetime class and index that
18:22:19 <tusho> so some kind of crazy space optimization will be required
18:22:20 <tusho> ais523: no
18:22:21 <tusho> what about
18:22:25 <tusho> "all clicks around noon, ever"
18:22:33 <tusho> that would be useful for graphing which hours are active
18:22:34 <tusho> etc
18:22:47 <ais523> tusho: you have to compromise somewhere...
18:23:02 <tusho> ais523: yes - the way I want to compromise is somehow making the indexes tiny
18:23:13 <tusho> maybe compression, maybe somehow finding ways to stick indexes together...
18:23:33 <tusho> ais523: I KNOW!
18:23:39 <tusho> What about a column oriented database?
18:23:47 <tusho> user_id,user_id,(etc),year,year,(etc)
18:23:48 <tusho> and so on
18:23:55 <tusho> i'm ... not sure how that helps
18:23:57 <tusho> but it sounds good
18:24:13 <oklopol> anyone wanna convert a short python program to c or something so it works a bit faster? :P
18:24:48 <tusho> oklopol: yeah :P
18:24:51 <tusho> ais523: any thoughts?
18:25:06 <ais523> tusho: not about that, I have so many other things to think about right now
18:25:13 <tusho> heh ok :D
18:25:15 <ais523> like how great it would be to translate Nethack into Prolog
18:25:20 <tusho> wow
18:25:42 <ais523> I want to do that some time, doubt I'll have the time though as it would probably take months
18:25:48 <ais523> but it's the perfect lang for it out of the ones I know
18:26:09 <tusho> ais523: perhaps perl isn't the best language for counter4
18:26:15 <tusho> i need something compiled, really
18:26:17 <tusho> either that or erlang :P
18:26:25 <ais523> tusho: C, compiled into Brainfuck?
18:26:32 <tusho> ais523: yeaaaaaaano.
18:27:28 <AnMaster> tusho, erlang is not compiled to native by default, it is compiled to bytecode run under a vm, but there is an extension for compiling to native code iirc, haven't used it so not sure how it works
18:27:32 <AnMaster> HIPE iirc is the name
18:27:37 <tusho> AnMaster: *OR* erlang
18:27:49 <AnMaster> tusho, why erlang :)
18:27:50 <ais523> my C->BF compiler is going through an intermediate lang that I'm causing ABI to create a massive acronym clash
18:28:03 <tusho> AnMaster: it seems like it is designed to handle this kind of shit :P
18:28:03 <ais523> which can either be compiled into BF or byte-code interpreter by BF
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18:28:17 <AnMaster> tusho, which is what exactly?
18:28:23 <tusho> ais523: standing for Almost Brainfuck Interface, right?
18:28:25 <AnMaster> lot of concurrency?
18:28:36 <AnMaster> it was *not* designed for handling pointless counters
18:28:39 <tusho> AnMaster: loads and loads of tiny changes, backed to disk occasionally,
18:28:40 <ais523> tusho: Assembler Brainfuck Interface, I think
18:28:49 <tusho> uhh
18:28:49 <AnMaster> tusho, well yes it can handle that pretty well I think
18:28:51 <tusho> and stuff
18:28:53 <tusho> like
18:28:55 <tusho> querying the log
18:28:56 <tusho> and uh yeah
18:29:05 <AnMaster> tusho, query hm, not sure how good that is
18:29:13 <AnMaster> well I haven't really used mnesia a lot yet
18:29:14 <tusho> AnMaster: well mnesia
18:29:17 <AnMaster> I have tried it a bit
18:29:18 <AnMaster> seems good
18:29:26 <ais523> tusho: just use SQLite, everyone else does, although I don't know why
18:29:26 <AnMaster> but haven't done any performance testing
18:29:31 <ais523> nor even what it is really
18:29:33 <AnMaster> sqlite is quite nice
18:29:48 <tusho> ais523: sqlite would ... not work for this
18:29:49 <tusho> at all
18:29:58 <tusho> only one process can open it at once
18:30:00 <AnMaster> ais523, sqlite is a database engine that works against a file, so you don't need a database server running
18:30:01 <tusho> (there's a lock)
18:30:02 <ais523> make it client-side and peer-to-peer?
18:30:03 <tusho> and
18:30:03 <tusho> yeah
18:30:05 <tusho> just one file
18:30:05 <tusho> really
18:30:08 <tusho> it needs in-memory cache
18:30:12 <AnMaster> tusho, well only one can write to it
18:30:13 <tusho> ais523: I am not going to use any SQL db
18:30:16 <AnMaster> more than one can read it at once
18:30:16 <tusho> AnMaster: well yea
18:30:20 <ais523> the data's just stored in the browsers of the people who are visiting the site
18:30:27 <tusho> ais523: way too open to cheating
18:30:29 <ais523> and if at any moment nobody's visiting the site it just vanishes
18:30:42 <ais523> tusho: your point is?
18:30:50 <tusho> ais523: v4 will be more resistant
18:32:25 <AnMaster> ais523, http://rafb.net/p/LB7uns28.html is what I got so far
18:32:46 <AnMaster> testing it, that is the reason for "!defined(__GNUC__)"
18:32:48 <AnMaster> the ! that is
18:32:53 <AnMaster> otherwise the ! wouldn't be there
18:34:06 <AnMaster> huh
18:34:48 <AnMaster> ais523, your print depends on your divmod so...
18:34:58 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, I wrote it first
18:35:09 <ais523> and yes, I haven't tested it for obvious reasons
18:35:22 <ais523> the rest is untested too but I'm reasonably sure I got + and - right, not sure about *
18:35:46 <AnMaster> well I'm not sure about what is most and least significant part in fingerprint
18:35:49 <AnMaster> due to bad docs
18:36:00 <AnMaster> I contacted Mike Riley, no reply yet
18:36:50 <AnMaster> ais523, the name change for the routines is due to making it work the same for 32-bit too
18:37:07 <ais523> I don't mind name changes
18:37:12 <ais523> it was only quick example code anyway
18:37:26 <ais523> I can't overengineer things in a few tens of minutes!
18:37:42 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway one issue is that there is not yet any test suite for LONG at all
18:37:52 <AnMaster> so this is really hard to test
18:38:00 <ais523> yes, especially in 64-bit
18:38:07 <AnMaster> even in 32-bit it is
18:38:10 <ais523> it was hard enough getting a memorable constant large enough to overflow
18:39:38 <ais523> I have to go home, anyway
18:39:44 -!- ais523 has quit ("$/='!';eval join'',@{{'+','$t[$p]++;','-','$t[$p]--;','<','$p--;','>','$p++;','[','while($t[$p]){',']','}',',','$t[$p]=ord ge).
18:41:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | no.
18:49:49 <AnMaster> optbot!
18:49:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I have no clue, why am I talking?.
18:53:38 <oklopol> nice topic :)
18:54:00 <oklopol> sounds like something i would say, but i don't capitalize
18:58:45 <AnMaster> ais523, for when you log read: huh, it prints out correctly except one minor detail
18:58:50 <AnMaster> it prints out backwards
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19:04:12 <tusho> oklopol:
19:04:16 <tusho> pastebin the code nad /msg it
19:05:43 <AnMaster> ah fixed it
19:07:48 <dogface> t8 (ax,bx) (ay,by) = (t4 ax by + t4 ay bx + t4axbx + c4 t4axbx, t4 ay by) where t4axbx = t4 ax bx
19:08:14 <dogface> c8 (a,b) = (c4 (a + b), c4 b)
19:09:54 <dogface> + is bitwise XOR. t4, t2, c4, and c2 are implemented analogously, as are t16, etc.
19:10:21 <tusho> And that is?
19:10:28 <dogface> t1 x y is x AND y (they're both single bits), and c1 x is x.
19:10:33 <dogface> Nimber multiplication.
19:11:10 * dogface implements it betterly in Haskell
19:11:32 <dogface> s/ betterly / /
19:12:00 <oklopol> betterwise
19:12:24 <dogface> So, the smallest Int Haskell has is Int8?
19:16:48 <oerjan> also, Data.Bits has xor, .&., .|.
19:16:59 <dogface> Sound useful.
19:17:09 <oerjan> even for Integer
19:18:40 <dogface> Oh, I want Words, not Ints.
19:18:43 <oerjan> also, shifts and rotates
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19:30:54 <asiekierka> Hi
19:31:11 <asiekierka> http://youtube.com/user/asiekierka - #2 and #3 released
19:31:15 <dogface> Ello.
19:31:19 <asiekierka> Animathed screebles #2 and #3, i mean
19:31:29 <asiekierka> There's also #0 and #1
19:31:42 <asiekierka> They're screebles only by name, they don't have anything to do with it
19:31:51 <asiekierka> Except large randomness, but that has to do with me.
19:34:08 <asiekierka> dogface: How are the animathed screebles
19:36:48 <oerjan> what is a screeble?
19:37:35 <asiekierka> http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles
19:41:14 <AnMaster> working with 128-bit integers in C sucks btw
19:41:46 <dogface> Hmm, that's not right.
19:42:13 <dogface> t8 (ax,ay) (bx,by) = (t4 ax by + t4 ay bx + t4axbx + c4 t4axbx, t4 ay by) where t4axbx = t4 ax bx, how about.
19:43:13 <AnMaster> dogface, what are you trying to do?
19:43:31 <AnMaster> and in what language
19:43:38 <dogface> AnMaster: implement nimber multiplication in Haskell.
19:43:49 <AnMaster> nimber multiplication?
19:43:50 <dogface> It'd be a better idea to look for an existing implementation, I'm thinking.
19:43:54 <AnMaster> also I don't know haskell :/
19:44:08 <AnMaster> dogface, what is "nimber multiplication"?
19:44:41 <dogface> Multiplication of nimbers. :-)
19:44:49 <AnMaster> dogface, then what are nimbers?
19:44:52 <dogface> And you can find out what a nimber is on Wikipedia.
19:44:54 <AnMaster> numbers typoed?
19:45:09 <dogface> Nim numbers.
19:45:37 <asiekierka> Nimber is a Nil mber
19:45:41 <AnMaster> dogface, I don't understand that wikipedia page
19:45:42 <asiekierka> Number is a Nu mber
19:45:43 * AnMaster shrugs
19:45:45 <asiekierka> :D
19:45:53 <AnMaster> <asiekierka> Nimber is a Nil mber <-- where did the l come from?
19:46:07 * asiekierka checks his Screebles archive
19:46:18 <dogface> I guess I'll have to explain nimbers to you, then.
19:46:28 * asiekierka failed, now checks all his Screebles: AnimaTHed frames
19:46:37 * asiekierka failed, fails to common sense: "I don't know"
19:46:47 <asiekierka> Oh. I don't know
19:46:57 * AnMaster gives asiekierka a strange look
19:47:06 <AnMaster> dogface, well a short summary would be nice
19:47:18 <dogface> asiekierka: I think I prefer Original Screebles(TM).
19:48:23 <asiekierka> Why?
19:48:35 <AnMaster> dogface, what do you use nimbers for?
19:48:50 <dogface> AnMaster: a nimber can be represented as a non-negative integer. The set of all nimbers with representations below 2^2^n, where n is a non-negative integer, is a finite field.
19:49:04 <dogface> asiekierka: because these animated ones are too confusing.
19:49:14 <dogface> And there seems to be more in an Original Screeble(TM).
19:49:19 <tusho> asiekierka: suggestion - slow down the animated ones
19:49:21 <tusho> they're a bit too fast
19:49:30 <AnMaster> dogface, what do you use nimbers for?
19:49:31 <tusho> just notch the framerate down a bit
19:49:38 <tusho> AnMaster: They're theoretical toys - got a problem with that?
19:49:49 <dogface> They aren't just theoretical toys.
19:50:03 <AnMaster> well I got a problem with false information
19:50:08 * AnMaster points at tusho
19:50:16 <asiekierka> #2 and #3 are 12fps
19:50:20 <asiekierka> Can't notch them down.
19:50:22 <tusho> dogface: Well they seemed like it. :P
19:50:24 <tusho> asiekierka: Why not?
19:50:27 <tusho> Just change the FPS down
19:50:29 <tusho> and it'll go slower
19:50:43 <asiekierka> Smoothness
19:50:45 <dogface> You can do anything with them that you can do with a finite field.
19:50:47 <AnMaster> tusho, would not be animated, would be slide show
19:50:48 <asiekierka> <12FPS isn't smooth anymore
19:50:49 <asiekierka> even a bit
19:50:52 <asiekierka> That's the problem
19:50:59 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you need more frames
19:51:00 <tusho> asiekierka: A lot of stop-motion isn't smooth. :P
19:51:04 <tusho> AnMaster: it already takes him like 3 hours
19:51:08 <tusho> for like 5 seconds
19:51:16 <AnMaster> hm ok
19:51:21 <dogface> And they're nicely representable as 32-bit integers.
19:51:22 <asiekierka> 1:30 hours for 20 seconds, you mean
19:51:58 <tusho> well, whatever.
19:51:59 <dogface> You'll have to use a Lanczos interpolation to increase the number of frames.
19:52:22 <AnMaster> dogface, are haskell numbers 32-bit by default?
19:52:38 <asiekierka> But they're meant to be a little on the fast
19:52:54 <tusho> AnMaster: bignums.
19:52:57 <asiekierka> Compare #2 and #3 with #0
19:52:58 <AnMaster> ah
19:52:58 <asiekierka> PLEASE
19:53:00 <tusho> asiekierka: link
19:53:01 <dogface> I think Ints have to be at least a certain size, and Integers are bignums.
19:53:10 <asiekierka> link for what
19:53:13 <AnMaster> asiekierka, non-flash link, so no youtube
19:53:37 <asiekierka> :/
19:53:39 <asiekierka> AVIs you want
19:53:40 <asiekierka> and a WMV
19:53:44 <asiekierka> AVIs are XVid
19:53:44 <tusho> asiekierka: ignore AnMaster
19:53:47 <tusho> if it's not .ogg
19:53:48 <asiekierka> the WMV is... WMV
19:53:51 <tusho> he won't care for it.
19:53:55 <AnMaster> ogg-theora is nice
19:54:03 <asiekierka> also, http://youtube.com/user/asiekierka for anyone missing links
19:54:04 <dogface> asiekierka: actually, after watching all four videos, I only remember two things about them: the "END!" at the end, and that thing that I think was a progress bar.
19:54:24 <asiekierka> They were meant for a single watch
19:54:31 <asiekierka> Not for a "rememberance"
19:54:33 <dogface> Nimbers are useful for Fourier transforming, I think.
19:54:43 <asiekierka> If they were meant to remember them, they'll be at LEAST 1:30 minutes
19:54:51 <tusho> #2 is very nice
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19:54:52 <tusho> :D
19:55:28 <tusho> #3 too
19:55:40 <dogface> My opinion, then: #2 and #3 are longer than #0.
19:55:58 <dogface> i play games now, k
19:58:03 <asiekierka> They're 12 FPS
19:58:13 <asiekierka> #1 was 15 FPS i think (or 24, i forgot)
19:58:15 <asiekierka> #0 was 24 FPS
20:00:11 <oerjan> asiekierka: what do you mean i am insane? i am going to kill you with this carrot!
20:00:26 <tusho> oerjan: that's one twisted innuendo
20:00:44 <oerjan> tusho: oh no, he won't be _that_ lucky
20:01:00 <tusho> poor him.
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21:54:15 <oerjan> Cooooffeeee
21:57:09 <oerjan> darn wrists. and i didn't even play tusho's game!
21:57:16 <tusho> ha
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22:37:03 <tusho> fun fact
22:37:08 <tusho> the guy who's site the counter is on
22:37:11 <tusho> had brainfuck as his first language
22:37:12 <tusho> no joke
22:37:47 <oerjan> optbot!
22:37:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | and she's oklopol's girlfriend?.
22:47:30 <oklopol> cool topic :)
22:47:45 <oklopol> it's always about me or said by me
22:47:48 <oklopol> optbot!
22:47:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Just delete/revert any page containing the string "Excuse for my post but I do not have money to buy meal to my children. Forgive me please.".
22:47:56 <oklopol> optbot!
22:47:56 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | stop reading..
22:47:59 <oklopol> okay.
22:48:11 <oerjan> NOOO
22:49:12 <oerjan> i guess that means i need to play a game instead
22:50:49 <oerjan> optbot!
22:50:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | is >> giving a problem too ?.
22:58:15 <AnMaster> night
23:02:13 <tusho> oklopol: coolness is still clicking
23:03:28 <AnMaster> >>? right shift?
23:04:47 <oerjan> monadic operation
23:18:48 <psygnisfive> so oklopol
23:30:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:46:32 <tusho> Holy fuck.
23:46:34 <tusho> coolness is still clicking
23:49:13 <tusho> OKLOPOL
23:49:15 <tusho> ALAN OVERTOOK YOU
23:49:23 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:49:25 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:49:26 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:49:26 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:49:27 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:49:27 <tusho> oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol oklopol
23:50:09 <psygnisfive> i agree with tusho
23:50:11 <psygnisfive> oklopol!!!
23:50:19 <tusho> psygnisfive: http://hideou.se/counter/ is what I am talking about
23:50:21 <tusho> he is #2
23:50:23 <tusho> with 100300 clicks
23:50:27 <tusho> he was #1 until just now
23:50:39 <tusho> he got £20 for being #1
23:50:41 <psygnisfive> whats the point of this now?
23:50:42 <tusho> i'm sending the money tomorrow...
23:50:45 <tusho> psygnisfive: there's a number
23:50:47 <tusho> the button icnrements the number
23:50:51 <psygnisfive> ok
23:50:51 <tusho> it has a highscore of top clickers
23:50:56 <tusho> oklopol has clicked over 100k times.
23:51:02 <psygnisfive> basically its who can click the most?
23:51:47 <tusho> psygnisfive: yes, and how many people have clicked ever.
23:51:50 <tusho> it's amazing.
23:51:54 <tusho> and I made it
23:51:56 <tusho> and it was #1 on digg
23:51:57 <tusho> a year ago
23:51:59 <tusho> and now it is back up.
23:53:28 <tusho> psygnisfive: you kajy?
23:53:37 <psygnisfive> what?
23:53:44 <tusho> on the counter
23:53:52 <psygnisfive> no
23:53:59 <psygnisfive> i wouldnt even consider doing something so stupid
23:54:42 <tusho> i know
23:54:43 <tusho> it's fun
23:54:45 <tusho> how could you?
23:54:58 <fizzie> "It's not stupid, it's usefulnestically challenged!"
23:55:01 <psygnisfive> its stupid
23:56:17 <tusho> it's useless, not stupid
23:59:57 <AnMaster> that is a very strange one
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