←2008-08-30 2008-08-31 2008-09-01→ ↑2008 ↑all
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00:11:49 <tusho> dogface: Why not?
00:11:52 <tusho> Do you ever click ads?
00:11:58 <tusho> if not, why clutter your screen with wasteful space?
00:12:05 <tusho> Additionally: clicking an ad by mistake is technically click fraud
00:12:14 <tusho> if you'll never click one intentionally anyway, blocking them is actually a miniscule amount good
00:12:25 <dogface> I do click them sometimes.
00:16:56 <tusho> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6yuat/let_people_use_google_accounts_to_log_in_to_your/
00:16:56 <tusho> NOOOOOO
00:16:57 <tusho> DOWNVOTSE
00:16:58 <tusho> :(
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05:20:34 <HanDongSeong> hello!
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09:45:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i like it.
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10:29:03 <AnMaster> %help
10:29:04 <funnygot> %<lang> <code>; %def <command> <lang> <code>; %show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; %str 0-9 get/set/add [text]
10:29:06 <AnMaster> %save
10:29:07 <funnygot> OK.
10:29:17 <AnMaster> %reload
10:29:19 <funnygot> Reloaded.
10:29:25 <AnMaster> %raw QUIT
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10:30:40 <AnMaster> %bf .
10:30:41 <funnygot> .
10:30:47 <AnMaster> %bf +++++++++++++++++++.
10:30:48 <funnygot> .
10:31:00 <AnMaster> %bf .+[.+]
10:31:02 <funnygot> ................................ !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎ ...
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11:19:09 <Deewiant> %bf >++++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<++.>+++[<+++>-]<++++++.-------.-------.++++++++.+++++.>+++++++++[<--------->-]<---.>++++++++[<++++++++>-]<+++++++++++++++.+.++++.>++++[<---->-]<--.>+++[<+++>-]<++++.+++++.
11:19:11 <funnygot> fungot optbot
11:19:11 <fungot> funnygot: in lisp, use scheme. structure and interpretation of quantum mechanics', which should definitely not have any undefined behaviour is meant to just be able to
11:19:11 <optbot> funnygot: would be cool to get aroused by CA
11:19:27 <Deewiant> meh, it was worth a try
11:24:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hum?
11:24:29 <AnMaster> funnygot doesn't have any language model data yet so it can't do that stuff
11:24:46 <AnMaster> fungot, "in lisp, use scheme"?
11:24:47 <fungot> AnMaster: i added a new page and sends it to emacs, i suggest fnord, and i
11:25:18 <AnMaster> fungot, and what does quantum mechanics have to do with it
11:25:19 <fungot> AnMaster: whom are you speaking in general, it looks rather out-of-place here too. :) i'm feeling like scrapping it.
11:26:31 <AnMaster> fungot, optbot
11:26:32 <fungot> AnMaster: type errors do not exist... i swear i sound just like riastradh said above. that was the 3/ 3... should start ignoring my feature suggestions hehe thanks, i've succeeded to get it on
11:26:32 <optbot> AnMaster: what if one of my strings is digits of pi, and the other is digits of 4-pi?
11:27:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and like fungot it would stop after a few iterations
11:27:28 <fungot> AnMaster: it doesn't catch exceptions when executing the callbacks, only when registering them. the fox knows how to party back in the other
11:28:14 <AnMaster> fungot, what the heck does a fox have to do with callbacks and exceptions?
11:28:22 <AnMaster> fungot, and why a party?
11:28:28 <AnMaster> ^help
11:28:29 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]
11:28:31 <AnMaster> hm
11:34:15 <AnMaster> hm I just got a great idea for how to optimise brainfuck a bit better
11:34:29 <AnMaster> probably someone already thought of it
11:35:22 <AnMaster> my idea is, you can replace ++ and -- with set constant sometimes, for example if that cell have had a [-] on it just before and there have been no loops with unbalanced <> in it
11:35:32 <AnMaster> then [-]++ becomes "set 2"
11:36:58 <AnMaster> in the same style you could do reordering of stuff like ++>--<<++>- to end up as: +>--<<++>
11:37:53 <AnMaster> of course as soon as you got a [] with unbalanced <> in it you need to set a new base point for your renumbering after
11:38:45 <AnMaster> should be possible to optimise unbalanced loops too a bit, as long as you always end up on the same cell relative the beginning at the end of each iteration
11:38:59 <AnMaster> but I assume ppl have already done all of these
11:40:07 <AnMaster> since some of these optimisations(spelling?) are potentially rather expensive it would probably only make sense in a compiler, and not in a interpreter
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11:57:12 <tusho> Pretty polarized submission.
11:57:15 <tusho> 30 downmods, 40 up.
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12:41:52 <AnMaster> tusho, question: does haskell support threads?
12:42:05 <tusho> yes.
12:42:16 <AnMaster> easy to use?
12:42:17 <tusho> AnMaster: however, haskellers probably wouldn't use threads directly
12:42:32 <AnMaster> tusho, are they OS level threads or?
12:42:37 <tusho> AnMaster: both
12:42:41 <AnMaster> k
12:42:51 <tusho> AnMaster: haskell is a general purpose language
12:42:56 <AnMaster> I know it is
12:42:56 <tusho> it has just about everything.
12:43:02 <tusho> why do you ask out of curiosity?
12:43:18 <AnMaster> tusho, I think you missed a comma there
12:43:30 <tusho> no, my question was out of curiosity
12:43:41 <AnMaster> then my answer is:
12:43:41 <tusho> "why do you ask, out of curiosity?" would imply that I think you asked out of curiosity
12:43:42 <AnMaster> out of curiosity
12:43:44 <tusho> :)
12:44:08 <AnMaster> <tusho> "why do you ask, out of curiosity?" would imply that I think you asked out of curiosity <-- well I thought you meant that
12:44:15 <tusho> yea, but i didn't
12:44:15 <tusho> :D
12:45:07 <AnMaster> hm this pains me a lot, but I need to do it, try cfunge on icc, yes icc is closed source but I need to check that it works
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12:45:19 <tusho> AnMaster: OH NO A COMPANY IS PROTECTING THEIR EFFORTS
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12:45:27 <tusho> it's ok! we'll be right with you!
12:45:31 <AnMaster> tusho, very funny :P
12:45:39 <tusho> we'll hold your hand, it's ok, you can pass the dark forest :O
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12:52:27 <tusho> this download is going slow
12:52:28 * tusho pokes it
12:53:15 <tusho> yay
12:53:19 <tusho> thanks for finishing download
12:53:19 <tusho> <3
12:53:32 <tusho> you are pretty awesome, finishing like that
12:57:04 <tusho> hooray
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13:01:57 <AnMaster> ok it works under icc apart from one typo in CMakeLists.txt
13:01:59 * AnMaster fixes that
13:05:01 <AnMaster> however I need to figure out how to make cmake set the C99 switch...
13:08:52 <tusho> This is nice.
13:11:20 <oklopol> so, what's the meaning of life?
13:11:41 <tusho> oklopol: beats me.
13:11:46 <tusho> Ha, I just noticed optbot's topic.
13:11:47 <optbot> tusho: back
13:11:47 <tusho> Fitting.
13:12:33 <oklopol> i'm hearing stuff about this chistianity, that fun?
13:12:38 <oklopol> *christianity
13:12:45 <tusho> not really
13:12:50 <tusho> it's a bit gloomy and unbelievable
13:12:55 <oklopol> they say it's the ceiling cat we should be listening to
13:12:57 <oklopol> is that so?
13:13:03 <tusho> hmm
13:13:04 <tusho> not really
13:13:09 <tusho> he's not actually there if you look
13:13:13 <tusho> it's just a photo.
13:13:26 <oklopol> well there was a cardboard one too
13:13:32 <oklopol> is that the real thing?
13:13:39 <oklopol> you'd think it'd be like a real cat
13:13:42 <tusho> not really
13:13:44 <tusho> it's just a picture
13:13:51 <tusho> a bunch of marks on some wood.
13:14:05 <tusho> though we're just marks of flesh on some bones, i guess.
13:14:37 <oklopol> well bongu is lojban for bone
13:16:51 <dogface> The meaning of life is HAVE KIDS PLZ.
13:17:06 <oklopol> i want a coder kid
13:17:17 <tusho> a coder kid would be weird
13:17:22 <tusho> "daddy, you forgot a semicolon"
13:17:24 <tusho> "you moron"
13:17:28 <oklopol> :P
13:17:30 <tusho> "WELL IN MY DAY WE HAD PYTHON AND WE LIKED IT"
13:17:31 <oklopol> yeah i want that
13:17:37 <tusho> "AND PYTHON HAD NO SEMICOLONS"
13:17:41 <tusho> "how did you ever live"
13:20:21 <oklopol> i was thinking more like the other way around
13:20:30 <oklopol> but perhaps C is the way of the future
13:20:44 <tusho> oklopol: no, the semicolons will now have a new purpose
13:20:58 <tusho> syntax will be turned on its head, the semicolons will be seperators of some kind but not in a way seen in programming langs of today
13:21:00 <oklopol> is that so?
13:21:02 <tusho> it'll be a totally new paradigm.
13:21:09 <oklopol> well prolly, prolly
13:21:22 <tusho> and
13:21:23 <tusho> it will be called
13:21:25 <tusho> oklotalk
13:21:28 <tusho> .
13:21:29 <oklopol> :---)
13:21:40 <oklopol> well in oklotalk ;'s are pretty mundane separators
13:21:51 <tusho> oklopol: ah but oklotalk is no where near finalized
13:21:54 <tusho> and even then that'll just be 1
13:21:58 <oklopol> :P
13:22:01 <tusho> in the future, we'll have oklotalk 5 or 6
13:22:12 <tusho> and it will be totally unrecognizabl
13:22:13 <tusho> e
13:22:16 <oklopol> indeed
13:22:40 <tusho> and you'll get paid by a company called Xirian (pronounced Zirian) or something like that, to work on oklotalk all the time
13:22:45 <tusho> because they use it for all their stuff
13:22:53 <tusho> and they produce the fastest, most widely used software in the world
13:22:59 <oklopol> :P
13:23:00 <tusho> you know that oklotalk OS you blabbed about?
13:23:05 <tusho> yea. windows didn't really stand a chance.
13:23:07 <oklopol> yes, i know it
13:23:12 <oklopol> nice :)
13:23:22 <oklopol> i'm planning an academic career tbh
13:23:50 <tusho> oklopol: yes, but xirian will start making the most awesome oklotalk programs ever and they'll offer you bajillions just for working on the spec and impl all day.
13:24:06 <oklopol> well that does sound nice
13:25:01 <tusho> also, tons of musicians will start composing with oklotalk
13:25:14 <tusho> because it has tons of generative, evolution stuff.
13:25:47 <tusho> and xirian will have developed and extension to oklotalk with a gui library that is the most concise in the world. so you see people performing live with a screen full of oklotalk programs plugged in to each other generating things.
13:25:53 <tusho> and then you will be declared king of the world
13:25:59 <tusho> and the main religion will be oko
13:26:20 <oklopol> yeah i'll take some of that please where do i sign
13:26:31 <tusho> nowhere, it will happen in due course
13:26:35 <tusho> and due intercourse.
13:26:41 <tusho> you have to have sex with the right people for that to happen
13:26:51 <oklopol> oh
13:26:55 <oklopol> i gotta start going out.
13:26:59 <tusho> yes
13:27:07 <tusho> but don't sacrifice your geekiness
13:27:13 <tusho> then you will not get to oklotalk v6
13:27:20 <tusho> go, my little oklopol
13:27:21 <tusho> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
13:27:22 <oklopol> good point
13:27:34 <tusho> not immediately though, i mean, no rush
13:27:37 * oklopol goes out looking for vaginal glory ->
13:28:10 <oklopol> ...umm was it girls or men?
13:28:14 <tusho> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/eng/814593791.html <-- "Do just about everything for us and since we're a startup hey no guarantees about the money guy but it HELPS PEOPLE! You just have to be perfect!"
13:30:00 <tusho> oklopol: genies
13:30:04 <tusho> you have to have sex with genies. go ->
13:30:41 <oklopol> :o
13:30:43 <oklopol> well
13:30:50 <oklopol> i guess i have to give it a try ->
13:30:53 <tusho> oklopol: or, you know, anyone
13:30:55 <tusho> but genies are the best
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13:48:46 <tusho> i like this.
13:55:32 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/STRN/STRN.c(36): remark #981: operands are evaluated in unspecified order
13:55:33 <AnMaster> c = calloc(strlen(top) + strlen(bottom) + 1, sizeof(char));
13:55:33 <AnMaster> ^
13:55:34 <AnMaster> huh
13:55:36 <AnMaster> I don't get it
13:56:08 <AnMaster> I don't get what ICC means there, I can't see anything weird
13:56:28 <tusho> ask #c (hahahaha see I made a joke)
13:56:41 <tusho> AnMaster: maybe it htinks sizeof(char) could be changed by strlen
13:56:57 <AnMaster> tusho, that would be pretty strange if it happened
13:57:02 <tusho> quite :D
13:57:20 <tusho> AnMaster: ah, wait
13:57:24 <tusho> maybe it thinks the expr could change top or bottom
13:57:26 <tusho> so the strlen would be up
13:57:27 <tusho> i dunno
13:57:40 <AnMaster> um strlen shouldn't change either, nor is c an alias of either
13:58:18 <AnMaster> tusho, there is another similiar strange one:
13:58:19 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/BASE/BASE.c(85): remark #981: operands are evaluated in unspecified order
13:58:19 <AnMaster> size_t i = ceil(anyLog((double)base, (double)val) + 1);
13:58:28 <tusho> odd.
13:58:28 <AnMaster> anyLog is:
13:58:30 <AnMaster> #define anyLog(base, value) (log(value)/log(base))
13:58:41 <AnMaster> pretty simple and all the () are there as far as I can see
13:59:13 <AnMaster> tusho, maybe log() could change the value of +1?
13:59:15 <AnMaster> XD
13:59:32 <tusho> but of course
13:59:33 <tusho> :D
13:59:41 <AnMaster> since that seems to be the only thing common between these cases
14:00:04 <AnMaster> it is: a(b(x) op b(y) + 1)
14:00:09 <AnMaster> where op is either + or /
14:00:22 <tusho> AnMaster: maybe it's saying:
14:00:28 <tusho> you don't know it'll be b(x) then b(y)
14:00:32 <tusho> it could be b(y) then b(x)
14:00:37 <tusho> though, it should only say that for sideeffecting things
14:00:49 <AnMaster> well... strlen or log shouldn't have any side effects
14:01:00 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/FIXP/FIXP.c(41): remark #981: operands are evaluated in unspecified order
14:01:00 <AnMaster> StackPush(ip->stack, StackPop(ip->stack) & StackPop(ip->stack));
14:01:02 <AnMaster> gm
14:01:03 <AnMaster> hm*
14:01:10 <tusho> ah
14:01:11 <tusho> now that is reasonable
14:01:21 <tusho> ip->stack could be executed before or after StackPop(ip->stack)
14:01:23 <AnMaster> yes, but the result is the same both ways
14:01:27 <tusho> no
14:01:28 <tusho> the first argument
14:01:31 <tusho> could be before or after the second
14:01:32 <AnMaster> ip->stack isn't executed
14:01:35 <tusho> yes it is
14:01:40 <tusho> StackPush(ip->stack, ...
14:01:43 <AnMaster> it is a pointer to a struct
14:01:47 <tusho> AnMaster: StackPop changes ip->stack, does it not?
14:01:52 <AnMaster> tusho, yes it does
14:01:55 <tusho> AnMaster: think about it
14:01:58 <tusho> it could be executed as
14:01:59 <tusho> ip->stack
14:02:00 <tusho> pop pop
14:02:03 <tusho> StackPush
14:02:03 <tusho> or
14:02:05 <tusho> pop pop
14:02:06 <tusho> ip->stack
14:02:07 <AnMaster> um
14:02:09 <tusho> stackpush
14:02:14 <tusho> AnMaster: WHAT IS HARD TO GET
14:02:14 <tusho> READ IT
14:02:15 <AnMaster> the value of the pointer stack is the same
14:02:22 <tusho> StackPush(ip->stack, StackPop(ip->stack) & StackPop(ip->stack));
14:02:22 <tusho> either
14:02:23 <AnMaster> what it changes is ip->stack->entries
14:02:23 <tusho> ip->stack
14:02:24 <tusho> or
14:02:25 <AnMaster> in that case
14:02:27 <AnMaster> and
14:02:27 <tusho> ah
14:02:29 <tusho> you didn't goddamn say that
14:02:29 <AnMaster> what it changes is ip->stack->top
14:02:35 <tusho> "AnMaster: StackPop changes ip->stack, does it not?"
14:02:39 <tusho> "tusho, yes it does"
14:02:46 <AnMaster> tusho, well it changes the *members* of said struct
14:02:56 <tusho> AnMaster: then it is complaining about StackPop(ip->stack) & StackPop(ip->stack).
14:03:10 <AnMaster> tusho, still doesn't explain the strlen() and log() issue...
14:03:19 <tusho> i dunno.
14:03:19 <AnMaster> log is pass by value so makes 0 sense there
14:03:45 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c(321): remark #981: operands are evaluated in unspecified order
14:03:45 <AnMaster> snprintf(sh, sizeof(sh), FIXEDFMT, PRINTFIXED(h));
14:03:46 <AnMaster> hm
14:03:49 <AnMaster> let me check that one
14:04:09 <AnMaster> #define FIXEDFMT "%s%d.%04u"
14:04:10 <AnMaster> #define PRINTFIXED(n) ((n) < 0) ? "-" : "", getInt(n), getDec(n)
14:05:25 <AnMaster> apart from evaluating n serveral times, but it doesn't change h
14:05:34 <AnMaster> err n
14:05:49 <AnMaster> h is int32_t
14:06:08 <AnMaster> sh is a buffer
14:06:09 <AnMaster> char sh[64];
14:06:11 <tusho> wahey, it's over.
14:06:16 <AnMaster> tusho, ?
14:06:29 <tusho> AnMaster: i downloaded & listened to an album. i like it. ~fin~
14:06:33 <AnMaster> ah
14:07:23 <AnMaster> well I fixed all actually interesting ICC warnings, and the odd undefined order stuff: no clue about that
14:07:25 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c(162): warning #810: conversion from "fungeCell={int32_t={int}}" to "uint16_t={unsigned short}" may lose significant bits
14:07:26 <AnMaster> uint16_t port = StackPop(ip->stack);
14:07:26 <AnMaster> ^
14:07:34 <AnMaster> that is just false positive
14:07:49 <AnMaster> I guess adding a lot of casts would shut it up
14:08:00 <tusho> AnMaster: icc is meant to be incredibly comprehensive
14:08:09 <tusho> i imagine the overpedanticism is a feature
14:08:13 <AnMaster> true, but it had some strange warnings
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14:08:35 <tusho> AnMaster: a cool thing: formally verified C compiler http://compcert.inria.fr/compcert-C.html
14:08:38 <AnMaster> like a "missing return" at the end of a function that GCC correctly detected as unreachable
14:08:43 <tusho> it doesn't support goto, longjmp/setjmp, duff's device etc and too
14:08:47 <tusho> also, doesn't support variadic functions
14:08:49 <tusho> still, pretty neat
14:09:19 <AnMaster> tusho, so you need: printf("%d %d", &myarrarayvariable); ?
14:09:44 <tusho> AnMaster: not sure
14:10:05 <tusho> i'm sure you could probably make it work
14:10:12 <tusho> but they didn't bother because it's a proof of concept
14:10:14 <AnMaster> I do use goto in fact for some error handling in SOCK and FILE, since there are a lot of things to clean up in case of error and a lot of possible code paths resulting in error
14:10:22 <AnMaster> thus a goto error;
14:10:24 <tusho> yes i agree, goto has many good uses
14:10:34 <AnMaster> however goto can easily get abused to
14:10:40 <AnMaster> and cause unmaintainable code
14:11:00 <AnMaster> but I think the sort of error handling needed in SOCK and FILE are a good place for goto
14:11:28 <AnMaster> /home/anmaster/cfunge/trunk/src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c(208): warning #810: conversion from "int" to "unsigned short" may lose significant bits
14:11:28 <AnMaster> addr.in.sin_port=htons(port);
14:11:28 <AnMaster> ^
14:11:30 <AnMaster> that makes no sense
14:12:07 <AnMaster> port is uint16_t, htons return uint16_t, unsigned short is uint16_t...
14:12:22 <tusho> AnMaster: you can't guarantee that unsigned short is uint16_t
14:12:24 <AnMaster> so it's prototype for htons must be messed up in some way
14:12:26 <tusho> is that specified anywhere?
14:12:34 <tusho> in the c standard
14:12:36 <AnMaster> tusho, I think addr.in.sin_port is uint16_t too
14:12:37 <AnMaster> so...
14:12:59 <AnMaster> there is no conversion from int to unsigned short in that line
14:13:14 <AnMaster> all variables and return values and parameters are uint16_t
14:13:15 <AnMaster> ...
14:13:22 <AnMaster> from man htons:
14:13:24 <AnMaster> uint16_t htons(uint16_t hostshort);
14:13:40 <AnMaster> port is defined as: uint16_t port
14:13:50 <AnMaster> tusho, still think ICC is right?
14:14:20 * tusho shrugs
14:19:11 <AnMaster> a | b == b | a; a & b == b & a; a ^ b == b ^ a;
14:19:15 <AnMaster> in C
14:19:19 <AnMaster> so this makes no sense...
14:28:01 <AnMaster> tusho, I think I see about htons()
14:28:13 <AnMaster> it is a macro using asm() in the system header file on x86
14:28:19 <AnMaster> I run this icc compile on a p3
14:29:04 <AnMaster> so the issue is in the macro htons() as found in the system header
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14:43:28 <AnMaster> tusho, about that formally verified compiler...
14:43:30 <AnMaster> "The Compcert verified compiler is a compiler for a large subset of the C programming language that generates code for the PowerPC processor."
14:43:35 <tusho> what about it
14:43:39 <AnMaster> well I think I got a PPC somewhere
14:43:42 <AnMaster> 300 MHz
14:43:44 <AnMaster> old old ibook
14:43:49 <tusho> go give it a try
14:43:49 <tusho> :P
14:43:54 <AnMaster> but never use it since the battery is broken in it
14:44:14 <AnMaster> and there is a glitch (right English word?) in the power connector
14:44:21 <AnMaster> so if you move the computer it may fail
14:44:29 <AnMaster> also it runs Mac OS 9 or something like that
14:44:32 <AnMaster> pre-OSX
14:44:42 <Corun> But it _can_ run OS X
14:44:49 <Corun> (All iBooks can)
14:44:50 <AnMaster> with 3 GB harddrive?
14:44:54 <AnMaster> good luck
14:45:01 <Corun> Not very _much_ OS X
14:45:03 <Corun> :-P
14:45:22 <AnMaster> Corun, 32 MB ram iirc
14:45:25 <AnMaster> or maybe it was 64 MB
14:45:28 <AnMaster> still way too low
14:45:32 <Corun> This doesn't sound like an iBook
14:45:39 <AnMaster> Corun, it is, first model
14:45:50 <AnMaster> one of the 10 first delivered to Sweden iirc
14:45:52 <AnMaster> white/blue
14:45:59 <AnMaster> Corun, that old
14:46:03 <Corun> Oh, wow. They really only had 32 meg of ram
14:46:09 <AnMaster> think so
14:46:13 <AnMaster> or 64
14:46:19 <Corun> No 32, the very first model
14:46:32 <AnMaster> Corun, it got 32 MB extra installed under the keyboard it seems
14:46:54 <Corun> OS X minimum is 128 :/
14:47:00 <AnMaster> well then there you go
14:47:03 <AnMaster> can't run OS X
14:47:09 <Corun> I had a clamshell iBook
14:47:10 <AnMaster> can barely run OS 9
14:47:16 <AnMaster> well it is a clamshell yes
14:47:23 <Corun> But, we upped the ram
14:47:27 <Corun> I did run OS X on it
14:47:33 <AnMaster> Corun, first model?
14:47:35 <AnMaster> or later one?
14:48:11 <Corun> Hmm, I don't remember
14:48:27 <Corun> I also had a 800mhz g3 iBook for a very long time
14:48:35 <Corun> Then I jumped from that to my current Mac Book Pro
14:48:39 <Corun> That was a sudden jump
14:48:41 <Corun> I can tell ya
14:49:17 <Corun> 800 mhz, 512 meg of ram to dual 2.2ghz, 2 gig of ram
14:49:22 <Corun> That was fun
14:49:26 <Corun> :-)
14:50:11 <AnMaster> Corun, this one is 300 MHz
14:50:25 <AnMaster> since then I left apple
14:50:32 <Corun> :-(
14:50:41 <AnMaster> prefer home built x86/x86_64 desktops
14:50:53 <Corun> You could still run OS X on your desktops
14:50:57 <Corun> Albeit a little illegally
14:50:58 <AnMaster> why would I want to?
14:51:01 <AnMaster> Linux is better
14:51:01 <AnMaster> :D
14:51:06 <Corun> OS X is the reason to use macs
14:51:10 <Corun> OS X is better than linux
14:51:21 <AnMaster> Corun, well the only reason mac was better was PPC
14:51:25 <AnMaster> but since they left that...
14:51:27 <AnMaster> no reason
14:51:38 <Corun> The reason Macs are better is cos they run OS X
14:51:40 <Corun> And they still do
14:51:43 <Corun> So they're still better
14:51:43 <Corun> :-)
14:51:44 <AnMaster> I disagree
14:51:45 <tusho> Corun: don't get started on AnMaster, he pained to test his stuff on icc because it was propitetary
14:52:05 <tusho> turn back now before you're arguing with him daily.
14:52:20 <Corun> I'm not really arguing yet
14:52:25 <Corun> Just making statements of fact
14:52:29 <Corun> ...
14:52:31 * Corun runs
14:52:44 <oklopol> linux and mac os both suck ass
14:52:48 <AnMaster> according to dmidecode the manufacturer of this computer is "To Be Filled By O.E.M."
14:52:49 <AnMaster> :D
14:53:07 <Corun> Heh
14:53:11 <AnMaster> Corun, and well OS choice is mostly subjective
14:53:18 <Corun> :-)
14:53:25 <AnMaster> anyone know how I fill in the manufacturer field?
14:53:28 <tusho> oklopol: and your alternative?
14:53:33 <AnMaster> since I *am* OEM of this computer
14:53:36 <tusho> note: must be a real os.
14:53:52 <oklopol> tusho: do i have to have an alternative?
14:54:01 <Corun> Yeah
14:54:07 <Corun> We're arguing relative goodness
14:54:08 <tusho> oklopol: yes
14:54:11 <tusho> we are discussing the best of what exists
14:54:14 <oklopol> oh
14:54:23 <oklopol> that's stupid
14:54:27 <oklopol> who cares what exist
14:54:29 <oklopol> *exists
14:54:29 <Corun> Not really
14:54:32 <oklopol> i'm going to bed
14:54:34 <Corun> We're being pragmatic
14:54:37 <Corun> Have a nice sleep
14:54:39 <Corun> Your bed sucks btw
14:54:51 <oklopol> actually my bed is fucking awesome
14:54:54 <oklopol> you should try it
14:54:56 <AnMaster> by the way what is "asset-tag", according to dmidecode my computer chassis' asset-tag is "Asset-1234567890"
14:54:58 <Corun> Ok
14:54:59 <AnMaster> whatever that means
14:55:01 <Corun> What's your address.
14:55:16 <oklopol> finland, do i need to specify?
14:55:21 <tusho> yes
14:55:24 <tusho> how can he try your bed otherwise
14:55:26 <Corun> There's only like 2 people in finland right?
14:55:29 <Corun> Which one's your house?
14:55:37 <oklopol> yes, and 4 of them are on this channel
14:55:42 <AnMaster> huh, my mobo got a weird serial number too: MB-1234567890
14:55:42 <tusho> lmao
14:55:46 <oklopol> no 5
14:55:54 <AnMaster> I mean that is "not filled in" clearly
14:56:03 <AnMaster> but the mobo I would have assumed would have a real one
14:56:03 <oklopol> i have the middle one
14:56:10 <Corun> Only 2 of those 5 are actually people
14:56:16 <tusho> no
14:56:18 <tusho> they're all people
14:56:20 <tusho> it's very simple
14:56:27 <Corun> And they're all in finland?
14:56:28 <tusho> there are 2 people in finland
14:56:30 <tusho> 5 of them are in this channel
14:56:38 <Corun> Cool
14:56:42 <Corun> Which house is oklopols
14:56:51 <Corun> The east one or the west one?
14:57:00 <oklopol> the middle one
14:57:10 <Corun> Which is east or west of the other one?
14:57:26 <tusho> "yes"
14:57:32 <Corun> Ok, cool
14:57:33 <Corun> Well
14:57:39 <Corun> I'll be there in like a few hours
14:57:46 <tusho> great
14:57:46 <oklopol> alright
14:57:49 <AnMaster> Corun, um there is a north one too
14:57:55 <AnMaster> just it is a secret
14:57:56 <Corun> Is there any public transport that gets me from finland's airport to your house?
14:58:07 <oklopol> sure, you take the bus
14:58:14 <Corun> _the_ bus?
14:58:15 <oklopol> take the train if you wanna see the other guy
14:58:26 <AnMaster> oklopol, so who drives the bus?
14:58:27 <oklopol> yeah, _the_ bus
14:58:29 <Corun> Which stop is it?
14:58:35 <oklopol> AnMaster: Corun, presumably.
14:58:43 <AnMaster> ah...
14:58:44 <oklopol> Corun: it's _the_ stop, obviously.
14:58:48 <Corun> Oh, kay
14:58:50 <Corun> Well then
14:59:03 <Corun> About how far is it from finland's airport to _the_ stop?
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14:59:23 <oklopol> wake me up when you have a conversation where someone who doesn't believe in the real world can contribute
14:59:25 <AnMaster> however... you got a lot of lakes oklopol
14:59:28 <oklopol> ->
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14:59:44 <tusho> no
14:59:46 <tusho> one of the five finns in here drive the bus
14:59:55 <Corun> Indeed
14:59:59 <Corun> I'm not driving to fuckin' his house
15:00:00 <AnMaster> tusho, which is one of the existing two?
15:00:14 <tusho> AnMaster: None of the two people in finland drive the bus or the train
15:00:28 <Corun> But one of the five in here does
15:00:34 <AnMaster> ah so you mean 3 of the 5 finns live abroad?
15:00:39 <Corun> No
15:00:47 <tusho> no
15:00:52 <tusho> 1. There are 2 people in Finland
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15:00:55 <asiekierka> HELLO
15:00:56 <asiekierka> I'M BACK
15:00:57 <Corun> There are 2 people in finland. Of which 5 people are in this channel
15:00:58 <tusho> 2. 5 of those people are in here
15:01:07 <tusho> 3. None of the 2 people in Finland drive the bus or the train
15:01:14 <tusho> 4. One of the 5 fins in here drive the bus or the train
15:01:22 <Corun> (Or both at the same time)
15:02:22 <Corun> And there are 6 of those people who, collectively, know the route to oklopol's house.
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15:14:57 <asiekierka> ^show
15:14:57 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13
15:15:03 <asiekierka> ^rot13 rot
15:15:04 <fungot> ebg
15:15:14 <asiekierka> ^bf ,[.,]!ahaha
15:15:15 <fungot> ahaha
15:15:21 <asiekierka> ^bf ,[.,]!ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
15:15:21 <fungot> ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
15:15:33 <asiekierka> Ggood llord. Dat'z Fazt
15:16:08 <tusho> ^echo optbot
15:16:08 <fungot> optbot optbot
15:16:08 <optbot> tusho: i wonder if it works on os x nowadays
15:16:09 <optbot> fungot: http://www.bash.org/?136534
15:16:09 <fungot> optbot: i beat mangler, but lose to logicex.
15:16:10 <optbot> fungot: what value do you set foo to so that (print (begin (foo) 1)) never prints the 1?
15:16:10 <fungot> optbot: list constructor, whatever that is on sale in 28 stores and verkkokauppa.com is the 4th church numeral. always anecdotal. although that's true too. there is an
15:16:11 <optbot> fungot: thus, "In theory"
15:16:12 <fungot> optbot: there's a new style of code from scheme?, of course). but i guess it doesn't concern me much if they are given to a data structure thats so tuned to the same object
15:16:13 <optbot> fungot: but yes, fair enough
15:16:13 <fungot> optbot: oh :p. i think i've gotten ( lambda fnord body) to ( call/ cc...) ( generate-temporaries ( syntax ( var)
15:16:14 <optbot> fungot: To use an interpreter: <interpreter> <program> Note: <program> can be the actual program, an http:// URL, or a file:// URL which refers to my pseudofilesystem.
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15:21:17 <tusho> the nonsense was too much for asiekerka
15:25:20 <AnMaster> %show
15:25:29 <AnMaster> hm
15:27:24 <AnMaster> tusho, is optbot completely random?
15:27:25 <optbot> AnMaster: do you have quasiquote
15:27:30 <AnMaster> or is the input related to the output?
15:27:35 <tusho> AnMaster: Completely random, why?
15:27:41 <AnMaster> was just wondering
15:27:55 <AnMaster> putting two eliza bot against each other would be interesting
15:28:30 <AnMaster> fungot have no input/output relation for it's randomness either right?
15:28:31 <fungot> AnMaster: so i made this parody of the python pack/ unpack is already ported to mzscheme, but conjure is mostly library code atm, so not problem in using a old version
15:28:46 <AnMaster> fizzie, ?
15:28:53 <tusho> AnMaster: yes it does
15:28:58 <AnMaster> it does?
15:29:00 <tusho> i think
15:29:04 <AnMaster> h
15:29:06 <AnMaster> hm*
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15:34:48 <asiekierka> hi
15:35:04 <tusho> hi.
15:35:55 <asiekierka> how are the milkweasals
15:36:06 <tusho> none new since #9
15:36:16 <asiekierka> none new since #26 here
15:36:20 <tusho> i guess it's a series of 9
15:36:25 <tusho> it sorts of fits together, i guess
15:36:32 <asiekierka> and no new animathed screebles since #4 (starting from 0)
15:36:52 <tusho> a short story about nothing, with no coherent narrative, and no real ending
15:45:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | python and php are crippled for any serious functional programming, which is too bad.
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17:19:12 <fizzie> AnMaster: Nope, fungot doesn't look at the comment, it just checks if it has the substring "fungot" in it, and if it has, it generates one sentence of nonsense.
17:19:14 <fungot> fizzie: tentacles! fnord/ fnord/ archives/ 001207.html. not with a newsreader))
17:19:37 <AnMaster> huh
17:19:40 <AnMaster> that was cryptic
17:19:40 <fizzie> fungot: Please do not talk about your fetishes, people might try to make some inferences to me.
17:19:41 <fungot> fizzie: if you did something outrageous and wonder why you haven't bugged me plenty. finally settled on using syntax-case egg. but would you explain what you want to
17:20:02 <AnMaster> syntax-case egg?
17:30:11 <fizzie> That was probably related to the "Chicken" scheme interpreter, which calls its extension modules "eggs".
17:30:56 <fizzie> And syntax-case was, of course, the hygienic macro system meant to replace the more limited syntax-rules. I think they maybe even picked syntax-case as the macro system for R6RS Scheme.
17:31:34 <psygnisfive> i wish i understood the difference between hygienic and non~ macros
17:31:35 <psygnisfive> D:
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18:42:35 <funktio> GOOD: put 'foo=bar' with P
18:42:36 <funktio> GOOD: "foo"G got "bar"
18:43:35 <funktio> Deewiant: it should be "oof"G
18:44:58 <funktio> (or G"foo" if IP goes right-to-left)
18:48:41 <fizzie> Which fingerprint is that? EVAR?
18:48:57 <funktio> yes
18:49:47 <funktio> the test is fine, just the printed string is wrong :P
18:50:06 <fizzie> I have a feeling I could use key/value-style maps somewhere in fungot, but maybe sticking unrelated stuff to the environment would be horribly wrong.
18:50:06 <fungot> fizzie: this client won't crash for anything less than a kilobyte... but now i have much spare time :)
18:51:02 <fizzie> fungot: Oh, I'm sure I could stick a kilobyte of stuff in the environment just fine... but I was thinking about your language model stuff, which is several hundred megabytes. Maybe it's best to keep that as files-to-seek-around-in.
18:51:03 <fungot> fizzie: oh wait, it's fnord. :p hee. eli terveisiä!
18:51:31 <fizzie> fungot: Er, this is an international channel, don't do Finnish here.
18:51:48 <fizzie> (I don't see how that was relevant anyway.)
19:05:06 <oklopol> bad fungot! also i continued reading your and funktio's conversation with fungot=funktio for the last message
19:05:07 <fungot> oklopol: or buy a new " dodge miser" and two dozen
19:05:09 <oklopol> that was weird
19:15:07 <fizzie> fungot: And two dozen what?
19:15:07 <fungot> fizzie: i know lots of lisp stuff.
19:15:22 <fizzie> fungot: I don't really believe that.
19:15:22 <fungot> fizzie: actually trondheim is a bit restrictive to say the env is a new rule to channel rules say up to 8/ once/ fnord...
19:24:47 <AnMaster> * Magic number avoidance...
19:24:47 <AnMaster> */
19:24:47 <AnMaster> #define SECS_PER_MIN 60 /* seconds per minute */
19:24:48 <AnMaster> huh
19:24:51 <AnMaster> just HUH
19:25:05 <AnMaster> from /usr/src/sys/dev/speaker/spkr.c on FreeBSD
19:27:42 <tusho> AnMaster: now that is silly
19:27:48 <tusho> magical number avoidance, sure, but that is just ridiculous :D
19:27:51 <AnMaster> tusho, there are a lot more
19:27:55 <AnMaster> #define WHOLE_NOTE 4 /* quarter notes per whole note */
19:27:58 <tusho> #define ONE 1
19:28:03 <tusho> AnMaster: well, that seems reasonable
19:28:06 <AnMaster> tusho, yes
19:28:09 <AnMaster> and about 10 more
19:28:13 <AnMaster> but SECS_PER_MIN
19:28:16 <AnMaster> that is just SILLY
19:28:36 <tusho> agreed
19:29:20 <AnMaster> basically I was writing a program to convert the speaker strings to something you could play on Linux
19:29:33 <AnMaster> oh and I'm using bash just in case you wonder
19:31:59 <AnMaster> tusho, #define ONE 1 isn't that bad really.... what if they decide to swap the names of 1 and 4 (four and one that is)
19:32:01 <AnMaster> ;)
19:32:05 <tusho> :D
19:32:38 <AnMaster> tusho, a response I got in another channel on this: <@Starnestommy> I think a committee decided to officially change the length of a minute to 64 seconds yesterday
19:32:49 <tusho> *g*
19:33:06 <AnMaster> * v1.4 by Eric S. Raymond (esr@snark.thyrsus.com) Aug 1993
19:33:07 <AnMaster> * modified for FreeBSD by Andrew A. Chernov <ache@astral.msk.su>
19:33:07 <AnMaster> * modified for PC98 by Kakefuda
19:33:07 <AnMaster> hm
19:33:21 <tusho> lol esr
19:33:22 <AnMaster> I wonder who should be hit over the head of those
19:33:39 <AnMaster> tusho, yeah it is FreeBSD kernel source, didn't know ESR was involved with that...
19:34:03 <tusho> well esr always deserves hitting on the head
19:34:08 <AnMaster> yeah
19:34:21 <AnMaster> but I want to hit whoever did it
19:34:46 <AnMaster> /* this weirdness avoids floating-point arithmetic */
19:34:46 <AnMaster> for (; sustain; sustain--)
19:34:46 <AnMaster> {
19:34:46 <AnMaster> /* See the BUGS section in the man page for discussion */
19:34:46 <AnMaster> snum *= NUM_MULT;
19:34:46 <AnMaster> sdenom *= DENOM_MULT;
19:34:48 <AnMaster> }
19:34:50 <AnMaster> huh
19:34:54 <AnMaster> what is wrong with floating point...
19:35:14 <AnMaster> oh 1990, I guess a lot of ppl didn't have 387s back then...
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19:36:02 <AnMaster> tusho, I use dc to calculate that: dc <<< "5k 1 ${time}/d2 ${#dots}^1-2 ${#dots}^/*+p"
19:36:41 <tusho> ha
19:36:45 <AnMaster> tusho, eh?
19:36:52 <AnMaster> I do happen to like RPN...
19:36:58 <AnMaster> I know most ppl don't
19:37:03 <pikhq> AnMaster: ESR actually wrote a hell of a lot of stuff.
19:37:15 <pikhq> And I think he was actually involved with BSD in the early 90s...
19:37:15 <tusho> pikhq: Like fetchmail. Oh god fetchmail.
19:37:18 <tusho> Somebody kill me.
19:37:22 * pikhq shudders
19:37:32 <AnMaster> pikhq, we got proof for that now
19:37:34 <pikhq> So. Very. Horrid.
19:37:46 <AnMaster> I never used fetchmail, so I don't know details
19:49:06 <AnMaster> whole = (100 * SECS_PER_MIN * WHOLE_NOTE) / DFLT_TEMPO;
19:49:09 <AnMaster> how useless
19:49:13 <AnMaster> I think 100 is a magic number
19:49:14 <AnMaster> ...
19:50:28 <AnMaster> tusho, ^
19:50:40 <tusho> :D
19:51:12 <AnMaster> well yes, it makes it into 100th seconds I think
19:51:14 <AnMaster> not sure though
19:51:33 <AnMaster> and that could change, I mean timer details could change
19:51:51 <AnMaster> modern systems using better granularity
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19:52:02 <AnMaster> while SECS_PER_MIN and WHOLE_NOTE won't change
19:52:11 <AnMaster> how silly
19:52:42 <tusho> Random noise pixels are pretty.
20:37:47 <AnMaster> http://pastebin.ca/raw/1189777
20:37:48 <AnMaster> tusho, ^
20:37:55 <AnMaster> fun eh?
20:38:03 <AnMaster> try running that script on "l2b.f+.p16a.c+.p l4mn<b.>e8a2mspg+e8c+f+8b2"
20:38:05 <tusho> Cute.
20:38:09 <AnMaster> it will print the commands you should run
20:38:12 <tusho> I can't use it, being on OS X.
20:38:12 <tusho> :P
20:38:14 <AnMaster> to get that melody
20:38:17 <AnMaster> tusho, oh
20:38:23 <tusho> Neat, though
20:38:23 <AnMaster> doesn't OS X have a beep?
20:38:31 <AnMaster> tusho, there are a few bugs
20:38:37 <AnMaster> no octave tracking support for example
20:38:44 <tusho> I don't know of any way to make the machine beep besides low-level Carbon APIs.
20:38:52 <tusho> I've only heard it beep on EFI upgrades, and that's pre-bootup.
20:39:00 <tusho> And I think even that was from the speaker.
20:39:06 <tusho> I don't think this machine HAS a pc speaker.
20:39:34 <AnMaster> tusho, write a program that is called beep -f frequency -l duration_in_milliseconds
20:39:35 <AnMaster> :D
20:39:42 <tusho> Maybe. :P
20:39:47 <AnMaster> then make sure your sleep support fractional values
20:39:52 <AnMaster> tusho, if you do that it will work
20:47:04 * Corun force pushes Mac OS X at AnMaster's Desktop
20:50:43 <AnMaster> OS is just a matter of taste
20:57:51 <AnMaster> if you are on Linux, try that script with "l2b.f+.p16a.c+.p l4mn<b.>e8a2mspg+e8c+f+8b2"
20:58:00 <AnMaster> you need dc installed
20:58:23 <AnMaster> oh and beep will need to run as root, but my command just output the commands you need to run to create the melody
20:58:42 <AnMaster> so you can verify that they are sane (just calls to sleep and beep), then run them as root
20:58:53 <AnMaster> beep -f 1975 -l 1312.50000
20:58:53 <AnMaster> sleep .25000
20:58:53 <AnMaster> beep -f 1480 -l 1312.50000
20:58:53 <AnMaster> sleep .25000
20:58:53 <AnMaster> sleep .12500
20:58:54 <AnMaster> beep -f 1760 -l 1312.50000
20:58:56 <AnMaster> stuff like that
21:04:03 <AnMaster> I think there are some issues though
21:04:11 <AnMaster> basically: pauses between processes
21:04:39 <AnMaster> for more accurate result doing the needed ioctl()s directly in a C program would probably be better
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21:14:21 -!- oklopol has joined.
21:17:55 <AnMaster> ok it is slightly buggy
21:18:00 <AnMaster> length of pauses are wrong
21:18:01 <AnMaster> not sure why
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21:34:56 <tusho> IM PRETTY COOL YEA
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21:45:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ooh.
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21:50:12 <tusho> hi oklofok
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22:00:33 <tusho> happy australian mailman reminder day
22:06:37 <AnMaster> <tusho> happy australian mailman reminder day
22:06:38 <AnMaster> HUH?
22:06:51 <AnMaster> who makes these days up
22:07:02 <tusho> mailman reminder day is common
22:07:10 <tusho> it means "first of month"
22:07:13 <tusho> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mailman+reminder+day&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
22:07:19 <tusho> but the original agora list is hosted in australia
22:07:23 <tusho> so i got that reminder at 8pm
22:07:24 <AnMaster> Information No results found for "australian mailman reminder day".
22:07:28 <AnMaster> um
22:07:28 <tusho> so it's australian mailman reminder day
22:07:30 <AnMaster> so...
22:07:32 <tusho> AnMaster: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mailman+reminder+day&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
22:08:11 <AnMaster> is it about the *program* mailman?
22:08:19 <tusho> yes...
22:08:21 <tusho> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mailman+reminder+day&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
22:08:23 <tusho> read, god damnit
22:08:33 <tusho> i give you a goddamn link and you just neglect to actually CLICK ON IT
22:08:35 <AnMaster> [Mailman-Developers] Happy Mailman Reminder Day
22:08:35 <AnMaster> I forgot to wish all a happy Mailman Reminder Day yesterday. Do these reminders not bother everyone else? Getting a few dozen of these once a month used to ...
22:08:35 <AnMaster> mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-April/016708.html - 3k -
22:08:37 <AnMaster> that is hit 1
22:08:42 <AnMaster> in the link you gave
22:08:46 <tusho> EXACTLY
22:08:49 <tusho> so why the hell did you ask
22:08:49 <AnMaster> which I read
22:09:05 <tusho> you could have checked, like, the 5 other results relating to it and got a confirmation of that interpretation
22:09:09 <tusho> it would take 5 seconds
22:09:16 <tusho> but obviously i linked you to a page with irrelevant results
22:09:19 <tusho> because i found it amusing, surely
22:09:21 <AnMaster> oh
22:09:24 <AnMaster> but
22:09:25 <AnMaster> wait
22:09:28 <AnMaster> what do you mean
22:09:39 <AnMaster> I never get password reminders from my mailing lists
22:09:43 <AnMaster> even those using mailman
22:09:49 <tusho> who said password reminders
22:09:55 <tusho> (domain) mailing list memberships reminder
22:10:03 <tusho> ah, it does give you the password
22:10:04 <AnMaster> tusho, well I don't get that either
22:10:06 <tusho> still: yes you do get them
22:10:14 <tusho> AnMaster: maybe they're spam-filtered for you
22:10:14 <AnMaster> nop
22:10:18 <tusho> but you do get them
22:10:24 <AnMaster> nop
22:10:29 <AnMaster> I guess they are turned off
22:10:38 <tusho> i have never seen a list with them turned off
22:10:39 <AnMaster> let me login to admin page for supertux-devel and check
22:10:41 -!- jix has joined.
22:10:44 <AnMaster> it uses mailman
22:11:01 <AnMaster> Send password reminders to, eg, "-owner" address instead of directly to user.
22:11:01 <AnMaster> (Details for umbrella_list)
22:11:01 <AnMaster>
22:11:01 <AnMaster> No Yes
22:11:02 -!- oklopol has joined.
22:11:02 <AnMaster> hm
22:11:04 <AnMaster> no is checked
22:11:12 <AnMaster> actually not the one
22:11:18 <AnMaster> Send monthly password reminders?
22:11:18 <AnMaster> (Details for send_reminders)
22:11:18 <AnMaster>
22:11:18 <AnMaster> No Yes
22:11:20 <AnMaster> ah
22:11:21 <AnMaster> that is it
22:11:24 <AnMaster> no is checked there
22:11:27 <tusho> weird
22:11:28 <tusho> that's a rarity
22:11:33 <tusho> most lists have it on
22:11:34 <AnMaster> tusho, and nor does any other mailing list send it
22:11:39 -!- oklofok has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:11:39 <AnMaster> like flightgear-devel
22:11:40 <tusho> AnMaster: it's a mailman thing
22:11:43 <AnMaster> it runs on sf.net
22:11:43 <tusho> mailman is totally retarded :)
22:11:48 <AnMaster> which used mailman last I checked
22:11:49 <AnMaster> right?
22:11:59 <tusho> maybe sf.net have it changed by default
22:11:59 <AnMaster> tusho, ?
22:12:02 <tusho> that would be reasonable
22:12:10 <AnMaster> tusho, well supertux-devel use their own server
22:12:12 <tusho> but generally, other-hosted mailman lists have it on
22:12:18 <AnMaster> http://lists.lethargik.org
22:12:19 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, that's a rarity
22:12:27 <tusho> all mailman lists i've seen haev it on
22:12:48 <AnMaster> on the other hand it is possible I turned it off sometime in the beginning
22:12:56 <AnMaster> over a year ago
22:13:10 <AnMaster> probably almost 2 years since we moved from berlios crap to our own server
22:13:20 <tusho> berlios beats sourceforge
22:14:19 <AnMaster> tusho, well downtime was large
22:14:37 <tusho> AnMaster: idiomatic: 'well, there was a lot of downtime'
22:14:56 <AnMaster> tusho, as in more downtime than uptime
22:15:02 <tusho> yes
22:15:06 <tusho> but it's not idiomatic to say what you did
22:15:10 <tusho> downtime isn't something with a size
22:15:13 <AnMaster> sf.net got around 50/50 I think...
22:15:18 <tusho> it's something with a length
22:15:27 <AnMaster> ah
22:15:28 <AnMaster> true
22:15:30 <tusho> but 'there was a long downtime'means the downtime went on for a long time
22:15:38 <tusho> so you'd say 'a lot of downtime'
22:15:38 <AnMaster> tusho, it did too
22:15:45 <AnMaster> it went on for days sometimes
22:15:45 <tusho> AnMaster: 'there was a lot of long downtime'
22:15:45 <tusho> :P
22:15:59 <AnMaster> a week with svn having a filled up disk
22:16:06 <AnMaster> so no project could commit
22:18:13 <AnMaster> tusho, I think this mailman install may have this as default
22:18:19 <tusho> yea probably
22:18:22 <AnMaster> as a list created just about a month ago
22:18:29 <AnMaster> have the "don't send" option
22:18:34 <AnMaster> and I didn't create it
22:18:36 <tusho> go subscribe to a random mailman list AnMaster and filter everything to be deleted
22:18:38 <tusho> just for the reminders
22:18:38 <tusho> :D
22:18:43 <AnMaster> tusho, huh
22:18:46 <AnMaster> don't want that
22:18:55 <tusho> they are important to an internet user's life AnMaster!
22:19:10 <AnMaster> tusho, I do get reminders from one list though... freebsd-security
22:19:11 <AnMaster> that is all
22:19:16 <AnMaster> it contains the password every time
22:19:17 <tusho> yayyy, there you go then
22:19:18 <AnMaster> not very secure...
22:19:23 <tusho> well duh
22:19:27 <tusho> mailman doesn't encrypt passwords
22:19:32 <tusho> it is also retarded in other aspects
22:19:50 <tusho> AnMaster: http://www.jwz.org/doc/mailman.html
22:20:11 <AnMaster> look I didn't set mailman up for supertux
22:20:15 <AnMaster> I don't have that access
22:20:20 <tusho> i know
22:20:21 <AnMaster> I do have admin access to the lists though
22:20:22 <tusho> just saying
22:20:52 <AnMaster> and I have ssh access to the web bit for supertux.lethargik.org, but not lists.lethargik.org
22:21:18 <tusho> AnMaster: also http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
22:21:36 <AnMaster> tusho, that one I read before
22:21:44 <AnMaster> it is a setting in mailman anywyay
22:21:49 <AnMaster> anyway*
22:21:53 <tusho> AnMaster: 'I have read that one before'
22:22:06 <AnMaster> tusho, yes I remember it
22:22:18 <tusho> AnMaster: i was being pedantic with your english :P
22:23:01 <AnMaster> tusho, isn't both correct? just one non ideomatic
22:23:12 <tusho> *idiomatic, and yea both are correct
22:23:15 <tusho> but one is very awkward :P
22:23:24 <AnMaster> well, it isn't idiomatic Swedish either
22:23:31 <AnMaster> so no clue why I said that
22:23:32 <tusho> but you are not talking swedish
22:23:32 <tusho> :D
22:23:42 <AnMaster> however I tend to talk very convoluted Swedish
22:23:50 <AnMaster> so I guess I'm just like that
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22:27:57 <oklopol> that one i've read before
22:28:10 <tusho> oklopol: yes, more idiomatic but not as much as mine
22:29:06 <oklopol> i'm pretty sure it's idiomatic to emphasize "that one"
22:29:22 <oklopol> and i'm pretty sure that's what AnMaster was doing
22:29:24 <tusho> not rly
22:29:25 <tusho> it depends
22:29:41 <oklopol> well, perhaps not in this case
22:29:52 <oklopol> as there's nothing that he *hasn't* read before, in context
22:30:01 <AnMaster> huh? I *like* convoluted language
22:30:09 <oklopol> me too
22:30:18 <tusho> AnMaster: it makes you harder to understand properly, certainly :P
22:30:23 <AnMaster> I make a point of using convoluted and overly formal language in a everyday context
22:31:03 <AnMaster> thus creating some confusion in any individuals within close distance XD
22:31:10 <AnMaster> (no probably not correct either)
22:31:24 <AnMaster> (or at least *very* awkward)
22:31:31 <AnMaster> tusho, or?
22:31:45 <tusho> incorrect
22:31:47 <AnMaster> wait, "a certain amount" would be better than "some"
22:31:51 <tusho> you don't create confusion in individuals
22:31:53 <AnMaster> ah
22:31:54 <tusho> you make individuals confused
22:32:06 <tusho> also, 'an everyday'
22:32:19 <AnMaster> tusho, yes I know a/an rules
22:32:25 <AnMaster> that was just a not very well pressed key
22:32:32 <AnMaster> I think I need to clean this keyboard
22:32:32 <tusho> :p
22:32:38 <AnMaster> the n key kind of resists more
22:32:42 <AnMaster> when you press it down
22:32:53 <tusho> *sniff* w...why don't you pick on keys YOUR SIZE?
22:32:54 <tusho> :'(
22:33:01 <AnMaster> tusho, ?
22:33:17 <AnMaster> huh
22:33:20 <AnMaster> I don't get it
22:33:26 <tusho> i was being the n key
22:33:26 <tusho> :P
22:34:21 <AnMaster> hm
22:34:31 <AnMaster> well a full size keyboard is kind of small IMO
22:34:34 <AnMaster> I got large hands
22:34:51 -!- LinuS has quit (Connection timed out).
22:34:52 <AnMaster> so no keyboard or mouse is really comfortable
22:34:56 <AnMaster> and laptops... just eww
22:35:06 <AnMaster> now night
22:35:15 <tusho> night
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22:36:30 <oklopol> i love laps
22:36:35 <oklopol> i love tops
22:36:38 <oklopol> i love laptops
22:40:24 <tusho> i love oklo
22:40:26 <tusho> i love pol
22:40:27 <tusho> i love oklopol
22:42:32 <oklopol> :O
22:43:10 <tusho> oklopol: its true
22:43:24 <tusho> it was the only way I could think to express my eternal love for you
22:47:37 <oklopol> optbot!
22:47:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hehe.
22:47:41 <oklopol> optbot!
22:47:41 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Which I guess is the same template as "My new guy's . . ."..
22:47:50 <tusho> optbot!
22:47:51 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | a bit.
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