←2008-09-02 2008-09-03 2008-09-04→ ↑2008 ↑all
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03:45:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you obfuscated, failed or... are weird?.
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06:07:12 <oklopol> i sense the time of go.
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06:49:15 <psygnisfive> :O
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08:16:28 <Mony> hi
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09:45:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hopefully it isn't with oerjan again, or there'll be a longer wait before you get it back this time because you'll have to wait for them to be online.
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12:26:57 <Mony> optbot...
12:26:58 <optbot> Mony: and I'm not writing a C library to give continuations to INTERCAL
12:27:29 <fizzie> optbot: Why not?
12:27:29 <optbot> fizzie: i have to sleep now canÄz zype anymore---
12:27:39 <fizzie> Sounds like a lame cop-out to me!
12:27:56 <tusho> fizzie: brilliant
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12:47:25 <tusho> :) smileys fall from the blue sky, sadly.
12:47:26 <tusho> using esc all the time while awake.' wikipedia
12:47:26 <tusho> now youve failed 365 times.
12:47:26 <tusho> i must depart now. i'll fix it.)) the golden ratio" achieved by the shortest known 99 bottles of beeron the wall! 97 bottles of beer
12:47:26 <tusho> well nm then but thx for help :)
12:50:28 <AnMaster> I don't know of "shortest known 99 bottles of beeron the wall" but I don know the "shortest known 99 bottles of beer on the wall"
12:50:37 <AnMaster> 9
12:50:42 <AnMaster> in HQ9+
12:50:43 <AnMaster> ;P
12:58:20 <fizzie> "Beeron" could be some sort of artificial beer-like substitute.
12:58:35 <tusho> AnMaster: that's a fungot poem
12:58:36 <fungot> tusho: " code with courage". we're talking about music. referring to itself in the multiple processes it pretends to use in a limited enviroment exported by the module system
12:58:38 <tusho> he recited it yesterday
12:58:44 <tusho> and performances of it shall be regular
12:58:46 <tusho> wow
12:58:50 <tusho> those first two sentences?
12:58:52 <tusho> start of another poem
12:59:01 <tusho> AnMaster: read yesterday's logs, I deciphered the poem
13:00:28 <AnMaster> "Beeron" hmmm
13:00:35 <tusho> fungot: but the music is how?
13:00:36 <fungot> tusho: to " print" statement should always print to whatever the program's running from??? or fnord?
13:00:45 <tusho> fungot: I think fnord. So, next ilne?
13:00:46 <fungot> tusho: not just any kind of biochemistry... but let's not talk about the subject to begin with, it might be faster to use that and also native compilation or at least
13:01:08 <AnMaster> fungot, how are native compilation and biochemistry?
13:01:08 <tusho> fungot: inspiring. line 3?
13:01:09 <fungot> AnMaster: let's wreak havoc
13:01:09 <fungot> tusho: looking for ' store' microexps, and setting emacs to backup files in a directory that i mentioned is perfect, thanks
13:01:23 <tusho> fungot: Wreak havoc? Alright.
13:01:24 <fungot> tusho: he cooked everything himself and was a pardon issued?
13:01:25 <AnMaster> are they related*
13:01:45 <tusho> fungot: Was it? I don't know.
13:01:46 <fungot> tusho: you asked how to first do a naive translation, but i
13:01:55 <tusho> fungot: but you
13:01:56 <fungot> tusho: no, the mob provides an uzi shield :) there are many of almost equal parts. 0 is 9"
13:02:01 <AnMaster> uzi?
13:02:12 <tusho> AnMaster: gun
13:02:14 <AnMaster> that is one that sounds like a fnord to me
13:02:15 <AnMaster> ah ok
13:02:22 <AnMaster> I'm no expert on such stuff
13:02:31 <tusho> nor am I, but Worms has a weapon called uzi ;)
13:02:36 <AnMaster> fungot, are you saying 0 == 9?
13:02:37 <fungot> AnMaster: the original name was " furor".): the pain of writing your own cocoa bindings ( which is 0) and (
13:02:40 <tusho> fungot: And your last words?
13:02:41 <fungot> tusho: i've found it. thanks.)) the .x. .y. stuff is hard what's wrong with it? not really
13:02:44 <tusho> AnMaster: no, 0 is 9"
13:02:46 <tusho> 9 inches
13:02:54 <AnMaster> 0 is 9 inches?
13:02:56 <AnMaster> huh
13:03:03 <tusho> fungot: so what's 1
13:03:04 <fungot> tusho: rather, above fnord) nonsense?! what the fuck you are doing? /leave scheme /join java? is there such a thing
13:03:07 <AnMaster> so fungot you mean 0 == 9 inches
13:03:08 <fungot> AnMaster: fnord vm is fnord can only be a few exceptions. so.....you like atlanta?
13:03:25 <AnMaster> fnord vm is fnord heh sounds like a meme
13:03:27 <tusho> that was a beautiful poem
13:03:34 <tusho> and yes
13:03:37 <tusho> fungot is up to date on the memes
13:03:38 <fungot> tusho: that small text would seriously look at plt-scheme servlets? without introducing a *different* lambda.) ack!
13:04:44 <AnMaster> tusho, do you think PHP is an ugly language?
13:04:47 <tusho> AnMaster: yes
13:04:57 <AnMaster> oh then we agree
13:05:00 <tusho> http://pastebin.ca/raw/1192465 First collection of the poemular work of fungot.
13:05:01 <fungot> tusho: the latter would show the problem better, rather than interrupt-mask/ all...
13:05:29 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway are any other languages uglier than PHP?
13:05:34 <tusho> AnMaster: yes
13:05:36 <AnMaster> I can't think of any
13:05:38 <tusho> many
13:05:39 <AnMaster> oh what ones?
13:05:43 <tusho> AnMaster: cobol
13:05:45 <tusho> fortran
13:05:52 <tusho> obfuscated perl
13:06:01 <AnMaster> ah well, I don't know cobol and what I seen of fortran doesn't look that bad
13:06:09 <AnMaster> well obfuscated C is ugly too
13:06:11 <tusho> well, it's certainly easier to read php code than fortran
13:06:13 <tusho> although I see obfuscated perl as art
13:06:14 <AnMaster> but that is part of the point
13:06:17 <tusho> so I actually see it as pretty
13:06:20 <AnMaster> so yes art
13:06:22 <AnMaster> I agree
13:06:23 <tusho> but it's ugly in a code way
13:06:29 <AnMaster> certainly
13:06:35 <tusho> php is less artistically pleasing than fortran, but is way uglier as far as code goes
13:06:40 <tusho> err
13:06:42 <tusho> but is way less ugly
13:06:44 <AnMaster> tusho, my question was not about obfuscated code
13:06:49 <tusho> i know
13:06:53 <AnMaster> you can write obfuscated code in any language I bet
13:06:57 <tusho> yes
13:07:13 <AnMaster> but I don't think PHP can be pretty at all
13:07:14 <AnMaster> never
13:07:26 <fizzie> Alternatively beerons could be the subatomic particles in beer.
13:07:51 <AnMaster> hm
13:08:08 <tusho> AnMaster: PHP & Fortran: Fortran is more pleasing in a "ooh, I set my eye on it and it's lovely" way, PHP is more pleasing in a "OK, this code's purpose is clear & elegant"
13:08:13 <tusho> Of course, neither score very well on either
13:08:28 <AnMaster> I think some of it is due to using $ for variables in PHP
13:08:37 <AnMaster> shell code can get uggly too
13:08:44 <AnMaster> though not as uggly as PHP normally
13:08:45 <tusho> AnMaster: not really
13:08:46 <fizzie> I often fortran.. uh, I mean, _wonder_ whether there's something fundamentally wrong with PHP, are if it's just that people who write it tend to be... well, you know.
13:08:51 <AnMaster> tusho, then what is it?
13:08:52 <tusho> cleanly-written perl is very pretty
13:09:10 <tusho> AnMaster: it's that the devs way back in php 3 didn't know shit about how to make a good language
13:09:15 <tusho> they knew what perl looked like
13:09:18 <tusho> and they tried to imitate it
13:09:21 <tusho> and failed, badly
13:09:32 <tusho> and of course the semantics make you have to write ugly syntax to get around them
13:09:37 <AnMaster> issue is I got a course in school which needs using PHP
13:09:38 <AnMaster> so...
13:09:47 <tusho> AnMaster: write a something->php compiler
13:09:48 <tusho> ;)
13:09:55 <AnMaster> tusho, hah
13:10:08 <fizzie> Or a something interpreter in PHP, with the program included.
13:10:40 <fizzie> I once returned a trivial C course assignment as a C brainfuck interpreter, with a brainfuck program included. I think it was automagically graded by some sort of tool, so that was pretty useless.
13:11:07 <AnMaster> fizzie, haha
13:11:19 <AnMaster> what did the tool think of it?
13:11:24 <tusho> auto graded? ugh
13:11:26 <tusho> that sound sawful
13:11:26 <fizzie> Actually I think the language in question was Scheme, not C, which makes it even less sensible. The tool didn't mind.
13:11:42 <AnMaster> anyway, don't think they would accept that, the course is web design... and php is the language used, also well commented code is mentioned
13:11:57 <tusho> AnMaster: kill your shoe.
13:12:02 <tusho> tell it: get the flu
13:12:06 <tusho> open the loo
13:12:06 <AnMaster> hm?
13:12:09 <tusho> and there you can do.
13:12:14 <tusho> that is the solution
13:12:21 <fizzie> Well, it was the "introduction to programming" course which has a metric ton of students, and those were the weekly exercises. The actual "programming project" was graded by humans.
13:12:22 <AnMaster> I think I can code PHP, I done it a bit a few years ago, but I don't like the language
13:12:32 <tusho> AnMaster: protip if you don't want to kill yourself
13:12:41 <tusho> php.net/function-or-syntax-element-or-whatever gets you to the docs
13:12:51 <tusho> and php is so illogical that you will need the docs every second function call
13:12:52 <AnMaster> tusho, hm...
13:12:59 <tusho> e.g. php.net/explode
13:13:02 <tusho> php.net/if
13:13:05 <tusho> get you to the right place
13:13:20 <AnMaster> hah
13:14:04 <tusho> AnMaster: [[ Although implode() can, for historical reasons, accept its parameters in either order, explode() cannot. You must ensure that the delimiter argument comes before the string argument. ]]
13:14:16 <AnMaster> either order? huh
13:14:20 <tusho> implode(" ", array(1,2,3)) and implode(array(1,2,3), " ") both work
13:14:24 <tusho> that is how crazy php is.
13:14:47 <Deewiant> hmm
13:14:50 <AnMaster> both will result in a string I guess? firefox just crashed so couldn't look at the page
13:14:57 <tusho> yes
13:14:58 <Deewiant> one could have a language where parameter order is irrelevant
13:15:08 <tusho> Deewiant: smalltalk
13:15:09 <tusho> :P
13:15:12 <fizzie> Deewiant: Lingua::Romana::Perligata does it.
13:15:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, certainly, named parameters for example
13:15:23 <tusho> AnMaster: however, explode() only takes them in one order
13:15:25 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that's not what I was thinking of
13:15:28 <tusho> and doesn't let you do the other way
13:15:32 <AnMaster> tusho, hm...
13:15:35 <Deewiant> and I guess that applies to smalltalk as well
13:15:49 <tusho> Deewiant: well, smalltalk actually has order
13:15:56 <tusho> (foo bar: x baz: y) is actually
13:16:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well you could make sure you could always tell by the type or making functions where it didn't matter
13:16:02 <AnMaster> however
13:16:07 <tusho> call #bar:baz: on foo with (x,y)
13:16:08 <AnMaster> how would you do pow(x,y)
13:16:11 <AnMaster> in such a language
13:16:14 <tusho> so yo ucan't do (foo baz: x bar: y)
13:16:15 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, Perligata uses the Latin declensions to indicate the role of any part of the line.
13:16:19 <tusho> same with obj-c
13:17:15 <fizzie> Okay, admittedly Perligata cheats a bit for function arguments; you need to specify those in order. But the function name and thing-to-assign-the-result-to-if-any and such can be in any order.
13:18:03 <Deewiant> AnMaster: return all possible results in a tuple
13:18:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you could do stuff like max(x,y) and stuff where the types are different, ie foo(int x, string a), but not stuff like a function pow(x, y) (returning x^y)
13:18:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hah
13:18:15 <Deewiant> pow(x,y) returns (x^y, y^x)
13:18:39 <Deewiant> hmm
13:19:03 <Deewiant> yeah, I guess one could define an order so that you always know which element of the tuple is which result
13:19:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you could have a language without functions then claim that "parameter order for functions in this language doesn't matter"
13:19:42 <AnMaster> of course no one could prove it then ;)
13:19:52 <Deewiant> sure you can prove it
13:20:15 <AnMaster> well it would be a nonsense statement
13:20:17 <AnMaster> is what I meant
13:20:20 <Deewiant> all (const False) [] is True ;-)
13:20:41 <AnMaster> heh what language is that?
13:20:47 <Deewiant> haskell
13:20:57 <AnMaster> ah what does that code do then?
13:21:24 <tusho> it calls all with (const False) and [].
13:21:27 <tusho> well
13:21:33 <tusho> it calls (call all with (const False)) with [].
13:21:36 <Deewiant> all returns true if the given predicate returns true for all elements of the given list
13:21:53 <AnMaster> I find haskell's syntax unusually cryptic for an outsider, most other languages you probably guess what some basic stuff does if you know other languages from the same paradigm
13:22:07 <tusho> AnMaster: it's very different
13:22:09 <tusho> though you can
13:22:15 <tusho> if you knew ML, haskell wouldn't be too hard
13:22:17 <tusho> Miranda too
13:22:21 <tusho> even gofer
13:22:32 <tusho> haskell is an ML descendent
13:22:52 <AnMaster> hm
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13:23:41 <Deewiant> if you know math haskell is trivial :-P
13:23:49 <tusho> that too :p
13:23:57 <Mony> hi
13:23:58 <tusho> but i kind of suck at mathematical notation and such
13:24:04 <tusho> so i know haskell from MLy things
13:28:55 <AnMaster> well I know math, but the notation... well same as tusho
13:29:08 <tusho> i'm not actually all that hot with mathematics ;p
13:29:25 <AnMaster> well I do like math
13:29:45 <AnMaster> and well the notation I know.... doesn't really match Haskell at all
13:30:20 <tusho> it does
13:30:22 <tusho> you just don't know it yet
13:30:34 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> all (const False) [] is True ;-) <-- Don't remember any smiley in my math text books
13:30:46 <AnMaster> in fact nothing like that syntax
13:30:55 <tusho> AnMaster: um, that isn't code
13:30:59 <tusho> "is True ;-)" was in english
13:31:04 <AnMaster> ah
13:31:05 <tusho> all (const False) [] was the code
13:31:12 <AnMaster> ok that looks like an array?
13:31:16 <tusho> no
13:31:17 <tusho> a list
13:31:26 <AnMaster> ok. not sure what it does though
13:31:31 <tusho> specifically the [] part of data [] a = a : [a] | []
13:31:35 <AnMaster> make all elements of a list false?
13:31:35 <Deewiant> I explained it above
13:31:48 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> all returns true if the given predicate returns true for all elements of the given list
13:31:49 <AnMaster> well
13:31:52 <AnMaster> that was cryptic!
13:31:59 <tusho> no
13:32:00 <Deewiant> what part
13:32:00 <tusho> it wasn't.
13:32:07 <AnMaster> to me it was
13:32:14 <Deewiant> what part
13:32:26 <tusho> Deewiant: the part where you didn't talk in low-level details
13:32:30 <AnMaster> hah
13:32:35 <Deewiant> meh
13:32:52 <tusho> Deewiant: quick, explain to him the asm that powers thunks
13:33:03 <Deewiant> sorry, I'm unaware of it :-)
13:33:17 <tusho> Deewiant: evidently, thunks don't exist
13:34:25 <AnMaster> so.. it returns true if calling a given function on elements in the list returns true for each object?
13:34:33 <AnMaster> err s/object/element/
13:34:33 <Deewiant> yep
13:42:46 <AnMaster> well arch is really bleeding edge... GCC 4.3.2 released August 27... It is in stable Arch Linux (not testing) today
13:51:47 <AnMaster> a bit too much bleeding edge there IMO
13:52:08 <fizzie> Phew, that was quite an adventure, copying 30 A4 sheets with the copier here. It was all "open right cover and remove jammed paper", "turn lever", "move unit 2", rotate this know, pull this lever, remove the non-existent jammed paper. Warning: hot surface, do not touch... but open it anyway.
13:52:20 <fizzie> s/know/knob/
13:52:36 <AnMaster> heh
13:53:06 <AnMaster> non-existent jammed paper, that's a new one to me
13:53:20 <fizzie> And it was pretty hot, I could feel the heat at a distance of ~10 cm. The part right next to it that I had to open was made out of some sort of special fuzzy non-heat-conductive material.
13:54:05 <fizzie> One printer I have used had a habit of inventing paper jams that did not really exist; you just had to open and close all openable parts of the printer, then it would resume.
13:57:19 <AnMaster> anyway how does a copier detect paper jams?
13:58:46 <fizzie> Oh, I'm sure there are some sort of sensors in there.
13:58:57 <AnMaster> hm
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13:59:56 <fizzie> "We've been rotating this drum a while now, but the sensor before it is saying there's a paper present, while the sensor after it says not, and the situation doesn't seem to be changing" => complain.
14:00:13 <AnMaster> hm makes sense
14:00:26 <fizzie> This is all just speculation, though; it could be that they've stuck little goblins in there to monitor the stuff.
14:00:59 <AnMaster> couldn't you detect it by checking how much current the motors driving the feeder mechanism used?
14:01:32 <AnMaster> probably not a good idea, it would differ between say, normal paper and photo paper
14:02:11 <fizzie> The paper path in that monster of a copier is probably several miles long. Well, not really, but it's still an imposing thing. At least printers are smaller than I am, I don't feel quite so threatened by them.
14:02:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, I know my printer got some sort of optical sensor built in, because I see a blue light from inside at the start of every paper, but that goes away if I turn off "auto detect paper type"
14:03:01 <AnMaster> it is also used to check the result during aligning carriages (spelling?) I think
14:03:02 <fizzie> There's a gigabyte or so of memory in that beast, too.
14:03:20 <AnMaster> well mine is a simple multifunction ink printer
14:03:25 <AnMaster> not laser or such
14:05:09 <fizzie> We have a small laser printer at home, and I don't think it has ever had a paper jam, but even if it had, there's a single cover to open. That copier has a dozen of little green levers and knobs and whatnot, and the LCD screen in it just keeps running a two-frame animation about manipulating them all, which doesn't really help a whole lot, especially since I constantly have a feeling that if I make one false move, it'll eat my fingers. And collate and stapl
14:05:14 <AnMaster> this printer works very well, from HP. only complaint really is that it is hard to reach inside when changing ink carriages and unjamming paper... the upper part with scanner and such tilt back when you open, except it doesn't tilt a lot.
14:05:22 <AnMaster> other than that it is very good
14:06:07 <fizzie> Auto-stapling copiers are scary anyway. If that thing goes on a rampage, it has a built-in weapon in it.
14:06:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, heh...
14:06:28 <fizzie> Fortunately it probably won't fit through the doors.
14:06:42 <AnMaster> fizzie, how did they get it in then?
14:06:52 <AnMaster> or was it built in the room?
14:06:53 <fizzie> Maybe they built the building around it.
14:07:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, is it on street level then?
14:07:26 <fizzie> No, third floor. They must've suspended it in the air with wires or something.
14:07:29 <AnMaster> ah ok
14:07:57 <AnMaster> fizzie, does it act as printer as well?
14:08:21 <fizzie> Sure. And as a scanner, too; you just use the touchscreen to enter your email address, and it'll send the scans as .tiffs or .pdfs to you.
14:08:35 <AnMaster> I remember seeing some that showed up as a network postscript printer, think it was at one of my parents work place...
14:10:16 <fizzie> I'm not sure whether we have a printer queue for that copier, since there's a rather big HP LaserJet 8150 printer right next to it. But in a previous workplace all "over 100 pages or so" print jobs were recommended to be sent to the copier for printing.
14:10:34 <fizzie> The printer setup dialog had a nifty thing where you could specify which corner of the paper to staple.
14:12:52 <AnMaster> 100 pages... that's a lot
14:14:32 <AnMaster> fizzie, how many "heaps" of paper can it staple at once?
14:14:53 <Deewiant> heaps? O(log n) to find the smalles piece of paper?
14:14:57 <Deewiant> +t
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14:15:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, as in if you specify 5 copies of a bunch of papers, then it feeds each to a different tray and can staple those bunches with one button press or whatever
14:17:12 <fizzie> No clue, really. There's also some sort of upper page count for things to be stapled together, but I don't remember that either.
14:17:46 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway lets hope the door is thick in case of.... problems...
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14:18:02 <AnMaster> ;)
14:25:42 <fizzie> It's a glass door... maybe not even velociraptor-proof.
14:26:06 <AnMaster> ouch
14:26:34 <AnMaster> fizzie, that is a work safety issue
14:27:03 <fizzie> Well, I'll have to leave (to go buy a fridge/freezer) in ~15 minutes anyway, so the copier won't get me today, at least.
14:28:09 <AnMaster> cya
14:28:37 <tusho> i chipped my tooth recently
14:28:50 <tusho> there was some glass covering something but I didn't see it so I just smacked right into it
14:28:51 <fizzie> Bye. Didn't remember to look at the OS X cfunge linker thing, but since I'm theoretically speaking supposed to be working here, maybe it's for the best; will consider it at home later.
14:28:52 <tusho> :D
14:29:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway why not unplug the copier while fixing the issue+
14:29:02 <AnMaster> ?
14:29:18 <AnMaster> I would never try to replace a fan or whatever in a plugged in computer
14:29:22 <fizzie> I don't dare, it could interpret it as an act of aggression.
14:29:32 <fizzie> Besides, I wouldn't see the "helpful" instructions if it were unplugged.
14:30:42 <tusho> i have plugged in ram on a turned-on computer before, I think
14:30:50 <tusho> had to restart, ofc
14:30:55 <tusho> to make it recognize it :P
14:31:41 <fizzie> I have hot-swapped several cards that weren't really meant to be hot-swapped, although it's obviously just stupid. I think some ISA card actually even worked without a restart.
14:32:13 <fizzie> The "let's remove the PCI display card and plug it back in to reset this otherwise unfixable display issue" attempt wasn't as successful.
14:32:33 <tusho> i pretty much think that dying because of hotswapping a computer component and bursting into flame would be pretty awesome
14:32:43 <tusho> so it's not like i'll go out of my way to make sure i hotswap stuff safely
14:33:43 <fizzie> It's significantly more likely to just kill your hardware, not you, which would kind of suck.
14:33:55 <fizzie> Not that I want you dead or anything. No-no.
14:38:25 <AnMaster> hehehe :D
14:39:28 <AnMaster> but actually I once started a computer with open case, only as far as bios though, needed to find out which of the fans didn't work
14:40:18 <fizzie> I had a computer with no case running as a router on my floor for a year or so. :p
14:40:31 <tusho> I've been paranoid about death for a while now, not really out of any fear, but in that ... what will you guys think?
14:40:33 <AnMaster> oh btw, don't try to hotplug PS/2 keyboards
14:40:36 <tusho> I mean, i'd just not ever come back online.
14:40:45 <tusho> You'd just think I'd "dropped off the face of the internet" as is said.
14:40:47 <AnMaster> caused a reboot when I tried
14:40:59 <fizzie> Then I dropped a coca-cola glass on top of it's hard drive, which broke both of 'em; that's when I resolved to get a case for that box.
14:41:03 <AnMaster> as in computer had just pressed reset button
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14:41:58 <fizzie> Fridge-hunting now. ->
14:42:46 <AnMaster> tusho, think -> means "heading out" or "going afk" or similiar
14:42:48 <AnMaster> I*
14:42:52 <tusho> yes I know
14:42:55 <tusho> but why do all finns use it
14:42:55 <tusho> :)
14:43:02 <AnMaster> good question
14:43:05 <AnMaster> can't answer it
14:44:16 <tusho> hmph
14:44:23 <tusho> google ought to have a search query that returns totally random results
14:44:26 <tusho> same for image search
14:44:32 <tusho> that'd be fun
14:44:39 <tusho> hmm, you could make a game out of the image search
14:44:45 <tusho> a website that presents two totally random google images
14:44:49 <tusho> you pick which one you like best
14:44:53 <tusho> and there are high-scores, etc
14:44:57 <tusho> that would be amusing
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15:45:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=esobot&word2=egobot :( :(.
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16:16:00 <fizzie> That was very efficient.
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16:42:20 <tusho> fizzie: a
16:48:49 <fizzie> A what?
16:50:16 <tusho> fizzie: a a.
16:50:52 <fizzie> A++++ would buy again.
16:51:35 <tusho> fizzie: a a+++++ a a a a.
16:55:55 <fizzie> Has someone been doing some s/\w+/a/g stuff here again?
16:56:10 <tusho> fizzie: a?
16:56:19 <fizzie> A.
16:56:23 <fizzie> fungot: A?
16:56:24 <fungot> fizzie: not quite sure why you would use car that many times. basically everyone seems to think that i shall never hear a poem frightful as a bear, that keeps pooping primes.
16:57:25 <fizzie> That's a pretty frightful bear indeed.
17:01:19 <tusho> fungot: A new poem, I see. Care to compose it with optbot after this?
17:01:20 <fungot> tusho: ( not straight.). i hope they're not watching.
17:01:21 <optbot> tusho: It's also UNIX-only. Maybe even GNU/Linux-only. :P
17:01:43 <tusho> ^echo optbot
17:01:44 <fungot> optbot optbot
17:01:44 <optbot> tusho: btw: 2^3*5^2*11*17*19*31*53*61*101*109*151*181*271*541*811*3001*4051*5779*12301*18451*42391*43201*109441*119611*140401*221401*394201*5020651*15608701*230686501*3467131047901*6641555895901*1114769954367361*1361918785737982855951*11981661982050957053616001*10237949952357183751384463924412751*656996318953349439721732908912325829378630572990405083901
17:01:44 <optbot> fungot: for instance I think you need ^ to swap elements 1 and 3 of the stack
17:01:45 <fungot> optbot: considering only processors still useful today, though not any less flexible... it predates my compiler rewrite. the author must be taking the tfy-0.201 course this autumn.
17:01:46 <optbot> fungot: i'm still improving my assembler
17:01:47 <fungot> optbot: one of them :p, 2) it's ( syntactically) long, and brainfuck command keys
17:01:47 <optbot> fungot: instruction if it is the iterated one
17:01:48 <fungot> optbot: at least if you find some ones in string searching, by any chance?)
17:01:49 <optbot> fungot: 1.8ghz.
17:01:49 <fungot> optbot: heh. i tried saving into one of them is about to execute instruction at ( 1,2), ( 1 2 3 4 5 6
17:01:50 <optbot> fungot: kipple: no
17:02:17 <tusho> wow
17:02:18 <tusho> that's some poem
17:02:23 <tusho> fungot: any last words or does it stand for itself?
17:02:24 <fungot> tusho: counting to ten modulo two before punching him? does it involve? doing it the way you would calibrate a normal thermometer. bf
17:02:37 <tusho> ah a new poem's start
17:02:47 <tusho> fungot: moar?
17:02:47 <fungot> tusho: sweet. thanks soegaard. i halfway there :) fnord bytes now, i could use a move instruction on the bf program on the phone, and it
17:03:02 <tusho> fungot: Verbose lines these days
17:03:03 <fungot> tusho: but is there a reason to be in normalized syntax is not the
17:03:33 <tusho> fungot: I love your rearrangement of the deconstruction of the syntactical elements - it borders on the legible while still meta-commenting on the meaningless of the elements' structure.
17:03:34 <fungot> tusho: in my head requires conditionals. don't complicate the simple primitive if. cond
17:03:47 <tusho> fungot: I know - great minds do not know what they achieve...
17:03:55 <fizzie> I'm not entirely certain the line-ending algorithm of fungot works; the stuff sounds pretty truncated.
17:03:56 <fungot> fizzie: more simply put: siod sucks as a general purpose language.
17:04:11 <fizzie> Maybe there is a line in the logs that ends "is not the".
17:04:14 <tusho> fungot: The truncation is what powers the self, is it not?
17:04:15 <fungot> tusho: lower species can be that the implementation was just broken. for other stuff, it calls the recursion again and tries to prove what we were about to divide that or so.
17:04:29 <tusho> fungot: Your final ll;ine?
17:04:30 <fungot> tusho: open any scheme source file with an alternative reader for ( a b c d" perl fnord ' print " n".join(s)' line
17:04:54 <fizzie> [2006-12-05 14:12:48] < egal> 13:11 < ELECTR00> losing energy like an idiot is not THE
17:04:57 <fizzie> Apparently so.
17:05:09 <tusho> The incorporation of the comparison with programming languages' syntaxes and their relative uniformity as a satire on natural languages is inspired.
17:05:29 <tusho> http://rafb.net/p/bSDi5y65.html poemular work of fungot issue 2
17:05:29 <fungot> tusho: my favorite part is " equal")' prints nothing) it doesn't compile. having the language be useable to some extent. it just happens
17:05:33 <tusho> they just keep getting longer lines
17:05:54 <tusho> the latest one is more dense & obscure than the first by a lot.
17:06:07 <tusho> Perhaps a new era in fungot's poemular work is needed? Will it return to minimalism?
17:06:08 <fungot> tusho: the only thing that can't completely be optimized is stuff where a part of scsh is already nearly completely documented, and only if there is any
17:06:16 <tusho> Apparently not.
17:07:37 <fizzie> I can return it to minimalism by decreasing the number used to divide the amount of words already generated when deciding whether to stop or not. But maybe that would be too cruel.
17:08:16 <fizzie> Currently every six generated words increases the stopping probability by .05 or something like that.
17:11:40 <tusho> fizzie: Do it, he must be tweaked!
17:13:51 <fizzie> ^reload
17:13:52 <fungot> Reloaded.
17:13:59 <fizzie> fungot: Do you feel like being less verbose now?
17:13:59 <fungot> fizzie: a pro at that :))
17:15:23 <fizzie> Actually it's .0625, not .5, in the Befunge version. It was easier to throw a d16 with ? than a d20.
17:16:02 <fizzie> (And it's now so that each generated token gives that +.0625.)
17:39:35 <tusho> fungot: Poemular next lin?
17:39:35 <fungot> tusho: yeah, we like such people much more then fnord the syntax if you want
17:39:50 <tusho> fungot: Your new poem sounds like a rap.
17:39:51 <fungot> tusho: taupan i tought that scheme worked with pointers/ references
17:40:02 <tusho> fungot: *scratches record*
17:40:02 <fungot> tusho: later tell bunny_314 we ( velco, forcer and r2q2?
17:40:08 <tusho> fungot
17:40:09 <fungot> tusho: one of my formally fnord questions consists of ordering 25 functions by their asymptotic behaviour. :(
17:40:19 <tusho> fungot: Last line?
17:40:25 <tusho> optbot: fungot
17:40:26 <optbot> tusho: dind't crash.
17:40:30 <tusho> er.
17:40:35 <tusho> fizzie: say fungot
17:41:27 <tusho> fizzie: plz
17:42:44 <Deewiant> fungot
17:42:44 <fungot> Deewiant: an hour each time he comes close to something hot.
17:56:50 <AnMaster> anyone know if php handles tail recursion well?
17:56:54 <AnMaster> I guess answer is no
17:57:03 <Deewiant> very doubtful
17:57:10 <Deewiant> most imperative language implementations don't
17:57:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I seen some that does
17:57:28 <Deewiant> yes, as have I
17:57:37 <Deewiant> I said "most", not "all"
17:58:54 <AnMaster> so now to implement Sieve of Eratosthenes in php (eww) and yes it is for a course in school
17:59:04 <AnMaster> otherwise I wouldn't touch php at all
17:59:16 <Deewiant> PHP course?
17:59:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Webdesign + PHP basics
17:59:43 <Deewiant> sieve of eratosthenes?
17:59:51 <Deewiant> is that web design? :-P
17:59:57 <AnMaster> no part of the php bit
18:00:40 <AnMaster> assignment was "Print all prime numbers in the range 2-100", well iirc sieve of eratosthenes should fit well for that
18:00:59 <tusho> AnMaster:
18:01:02 <Deewiant> print [2,3,5,7...
18:01:05 <tusho> why do you take that ourse
18:01:15 <tusho> although Deewiant++
18:01:35 <Deewiant> and since the range is that tiny
18:01:47 <Deewiant> it's easier to make a primality checker
18:01:54 <Deewiant> and just loop 2-100
18:01:58 <AnMaster> tusho, well in Sweden you have to take a set number of hours in total, and that was the least bad course left to select for the last 50 hours
18:01:59 <AnMaster> :P
18:02:14 <Deewiant> ++wikipedia: http://www.think-lamp.com/2008/08/sieve-of-eratosthenes-in-php/
18:02:20 <tusho> AnMaster: web design & php course sounds pretty fucking bad to me :)
18:02:29 <AnMaster> tusho, well sure
18:02:39 <tusho> i mean, i love web design and all that but all the courses i've seen have sucked
18:02:44 <tusho> as well as 99% of the tutorials
18:02:48 <tusho> it's a shame
18:03:30 <tusho> 'regardless of what wikipedia might say :('
18:03:40 <tusho> i think i'll trust wp over your lame blog for algorithmic complexity shizz.
18:04:25 <Deewiant> hee, implementation of NULL is now just `mixin (Fingerprint!("NULL"));'
18:04:34 <tusho> Deewiant: cute
18:04:40 <tusho> now make it (fingerprint "NULL")
18:04:51 <tusho> or fingerprints NULL = []
18:05:09 <Deewiant> sorry, this is D, I can't improve the syntax
18:05:21 <Deewiant> or rather, this is D 1.0
18:05:29 <Deewiant> in a later version of 2.0, or 3.0, I should be able to
18:05:35 <tusho> Deewiant: so don't use d ;)
18:05:46 <tusho> my second example was meant to be haskell
18:05:54 <Deewiant> it wasn't, though
18:05:57 <Deewiant> :-P
18:06:06 <Deewiant> or hmm
18:06:10 <tusho> yes
18:06:10 <tusho> it is
18:06:12 <Deewiant> okay, yes, it could be
18:06:15 <tusho> data Fingerprint = NULL | ...
18:06:17 <Deewiant> yeah
18:06:21 <Deewiant> misthought
18:06:21 <tusho> fingerprints :: Fingerprint -> [(dunno)]
18:06:32 <tusho> ofc, that pattern matching would suck
18:06:34 <tusho> you'd need a map
18:06:34 <Deewiant> but anyhoo
18:06:37 <tusho> and then it gets less elegant
18:06:43 <Deewiant> we already have a haskell impl
18:06:49 <Deewiant> so might as well stick with D :-P
18:07:36 <tusho> hmmmmmmm
18:07:43 <tusho> what nice fast language is it unimplemented in...
18:07:54 <Deewiant> ocaml
18:08:08 <tusho> Deewiant: i said nice
18:08:15 <Deewiant> tusho: Nice
18:08:18 <Deewiant> ;-P
18:08:23 <tusho> Deewiant: :D
18:08:26 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_(programming_language)
18:08:26 <tusho> CHARITY
18:08:29 <tusho> and i know
18:08:58 <Deewiant> I don't know, what else is nice
18:09:04 <Deewiant> after Haskell nothing seems nice any more :-P
18:09:16 <Deewiant> Clean, maybe
18:09:30 <tusho> Deewiant: i said Charity
18:09:30 <tusho> :P
18:09:59 <Deewiant> is it nice?
18:10:50 <tusho> it's impractical
18:10:51 <tusho> :P
18:10:54 <tusho> subturing
18:11:15 <Deewiant> meh
18:11:43 <tusho> http://www.ultratechnology.com/scope.htm
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18:38:57 <tusho> hi oerjan
18:39:18 <oerjan> 'evening
18:41:51 <oerjan> optbot!
18:41:51 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I improved my trombute :P.
18:42:49 <oerjan> now to do the same with the troitar and the flugan
18:45:59 <tusho> oerjan: care for the poemular work of fungot, issue 3?
18:45:59 <fungot> tusho: fnord or something
18:46:23 <tusho> fungot: i'm using that as a title for this collection
18:46:23 <fungot> tusho: lets make a spec first anyway... start a game!
18:46:50 <oerjan> fungot: that part about ordering functions by asymptotic behavior sounded painful
18:46:51 <fungot> oerjan: rammstein is far more familiar with inner product spaces than i am
18:47:10 <tusho> hah
18:47:21 <oerjan> that was eerily topical
18:47:32 <oerjan> well, nearly
18:47:47 <tusho> oerjan: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1192758
18:48:07 <oerjan> fungot: what do you know about hedge funds?
18:48:08 <fungot> oerjan: but it'll be there the next time you mispaste, please use your wonderful powers to get ipv6 to actually happen.
18:49:37 <oerjan> avoiding the question and trying to shuffle work onto me. that is an evil, evil bot
18:51:05 <oerjan> fungot: surely you cannot be serious
18:51:05 <fungot> oerjan: no worries either way, very ingenious.
18:51:24 <tusho> oerjan: i think optbot needs some more love
18:51:25 <optbot> tusho: it's amusing
18:51:29 <tusho> exactky
18:51:31 <tusho> *exactly
18:51:50 * oerjan hugs optbot
18:51:51 <optbot> oerjan: i never really believed in that
18:52:00 <tusho> hah
18:52:23 <Mony> does anyone got a good tutorial about the PE Format ?
18:52:31 <AnMaster> tusho, Deewiant: there?
18:52:39 <Deewiant> sure
18:52:48 <Mony> I found a tutorial about the PE Format in Win 3.1 ...
18:52:49 <tusho> no
18:53:01 <AnMaster> how would one go about printing the 100 first primes? Sieve of Eratosthenes is "primes in a range" not the same
18:53:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, just wondering
18:53:16 <tusho> :|
18:53:24 <tusho> AnMaster: start at i=0.
18:53:30 <tusho> from 0..infinity
18:53:32 <Deewiant> and go to i=100.
18:53:34 <tusho> if it is a prime
18:53:38 <tusho> then increment i
18:53:40 <AnMaster> tusho, and then keep going until I found 100 primes hm...
18:53:41 <AnMaster> right
18:53:42 <tusho> stop if i is 100
18:53:50 <AnMaster> duh, that I didn't think of that
18:53:58 <tusho> expert programmer. :|
18:54:12 <oerjan> it might be more efficient to use the sieve with an overestimated range
18:54:22 <tusho> oerjan: but also overengineering.
18:54:27 <AnMaster> oerjan, um?
18:54:33 <tusho> it's just for a class assignment
18:54:39 <tusho> this is most likely how they're expecting it to be done
18:54:41 <AnMaster> this part was not
18:54:44 <tusho> even if it's not, it's a better solution
18:54:47 <AnMaster> this was just wondering
18:54:47 <oerjan> ah
18:55:01 <AnMaster> the class assignment was "find all primes in the range 2-100"
18:55:06 <tusho> cost-benefit ratio would lead to this solution
18:55:09 <AnMaster> for which I used the sieve
18:55:10 <tusho> AnMaster: then do the same thing :P
18:55:21 <tusho> for i in 2..100, if prime(i) print i
18:55:23 <AnMaster> while I just happened to wonder "what about the first 100 primes"
18:55:23 <tusho> simple as it gets
18:55:28 <tusho> and the best way to do it
18:55:30 <tusho> for such a tiny range
18:55:40 <tusho> AnMaster: computers can check less than 100 primes very fast, you know
18:55:45 <tusho> the sieve is a waste
18:55:47 <AnMaster> tusho, yep
18:56:03 <tusho> AnMaster: i'd give more marks for the simple for-loop than the sieve
18:56:10 <AnMaster> tusho, oh?
18:56:11 <tusho> it shows a better way of thinking about the problem
18:56:24 <tusho> i.e. it's simpler to write a for loop and a trivial prime checker
18:56:27 <tusho> for such tiny ranges
18:56:33 <tusho> and thus a better use of time than an all-out sieve
18:56:34 <Deewiant> that's what I said
18:56:36 <tusho> which is overblown for the tiny range
18:56:41 <tusho> therefore, I would mark the for-loop higher.
18:56:52 <AnMaster> tusho, function takes upper limit as parameter ;P
18:56:54 <Deewiant> but I don't know
18:57:03 <tusho> AnMaster: you're missing the point, as usual
18:57:09 <Deewiant> takeWhile (<=100) primes is pretty
18:57:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that is haskell again?
18:57:26 <Deewiant> yes
18:57:33 <AnMaster> ok so what does that one mean
18:57:33 <tusho> AnMaster: I want to know how primes are relevant to webdesign.
18:57:40 <tusho> AnMaster: primes is an infinite list of every prime
18:57:43 <Deewiant> what do you think it means
18:57:47 <Deewiant> tusho: shush
18:57:50 <AnMaster> tusho, as I mention above, it was the introduction to php bit of the course
18:57:51 <tusho> takeWhile gives all the elements of a list
18:57:54 <tusho> up to when the predicate fails.
18:57:58 <AnMaster> it is webdesign mostly
18:58:01 <Deewiant> bah, tusho
18:58:11 <tusho> Deewiant: there are better ways to irritate AnMaster
18:58:13 <Deewiant> that's the kind of thing that should be figured out and not explained
18:58:19 <Deewiant> I'm not looking to irritate
18:58:27 <Deewiant> I'm not a jerk-ass troll like you :-P
18:58:30 <AnMaster> however first section is introduction to php, for example first one was "convert Fahrenheit to Celsius"
18:58:40 <tusho> yes, but the day AnMaster understands haskell, i'll make a video of me dancing to never gonna give you up
18:58:42 <oerjan> AnMaster: that has the advantage that the other question is just take 100 primes
18:58:43 <tusho> and i'll post it on youtube
18:59:03 <Deewiant> tusho: of course that's a non-statement unless you define "understands haskell"
18:59:11 <Deewiant> I don't understand most of Oleg's stuff
18:59:11 <AnMaster> oerjan, ?
18:59:23 <tusho> Deewiant: understands it as much as me, let's say
18:59:25 <Deewiant> or many of the GHC typesystem extensions
18:59:27 <tusho> (and i'm not very good at haskell)
18:59:27 <tusho> :P
18:59:34 <oerjan> AnMaster: take n list gives the first n elements of a list
18:59:35 <AnMaster> tusho, I do understand erlang which is also functional, so maybe I'll try haskell later, won't have time to learn it for some time though
18:59:42 <tusho> AnMaster: please don't
18:59:44 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes
18:59:48 <AnMaster> oerjan, ?
18:59:51 <AnMaster> tusho, why not?
18:59:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: please do, let's make him post that video
19:00:06 <AnMaster> probably next summer
19:00:06 <tusho> AnMaster: well, do it only when i'm offline
19:00:09 <AnMaster> or the xmas
19:00:10 <tusho> thanks
19:00:21 <AnMaster> tusho, maybe at some other random point though
19:00:33 <AnMaster> not the next few months at least
19:01:55 <tusho> fizzie: Could I publish these fungot poems in a book
19:01:56 <fungot> tusho: now let's up them, right? :) ( but why ledit scheme if you squint
19:02:03 <tusho> and an interactive cd
19:03:09 <oerjan> tusho: The Mark ov Poetry?
19:03:10 <AnMaster> tusho, btw google chrome fail at 64-bit currently, a lot would need to be reworked apart from the java script code generation, for example: the GC used
19:03:16 <tusho> oerjan: hah
19:03:20 <AnMaster> I asked around a bit
19:03:23 <tusho> AnMaster: what-everrrrrrrrrr
19:03:32 <AnMaster> tusho, hm?
19:03:43 <tusho> AnMaster: that was my demonstration of my lack of caring :D
19:04:14 <AnMaster> tusho, you used up your quota of "r"
19:04:21 <tusho> AnMaster: oh dea.
19:04:24 -!- oklopol has joined.
19:04:31 <oerjan> more r's means more caring, clearly.
19:04:47 <oklopol> have you heard about the rabbit and the rabbi?
19:04:58 <oerjan> hm except it could be just keyboard repetition
19:05:17 <oklopol> was that an answer to mine?
19:05:27 <oerjan> oklopol: sorry, we are leaving out r's not t's at the moment
19:05:56 <oklopol> well that's just kille
19:06:09 <oerjan> although you could tell abbit of the joke
19:06:26 <tusho> http://hideou.se/counter/ is dead
19:06:27 <tusho> :(
19:06:38 <oerjan> tusho: what was it?
19:06:44 <tusho> oerjan: no, it's alive
19:06:46 <tusho> just not being used
19:06:48 <AnMaster> tusho, why is that?
19:06:52 <AnMaster> "Top clickers
19:06:52 <tusho> AnMaster: nobody is clicking.
19:06:52 <AnMaster> 1. Loading...
19:06:52 <AnMaster> "
19:06:54 <AnMaster> then nothing
19:06:58 <tusho> huh.
19:07:01 <tusho> that shouldn't happen
19:07:04 <tusho> no, the site works fine
19:07:04 <AnMaster> oh javascript
19:07:05 <AnMaster> ...
19:07:06 <tusho> people have just stopped clicking
19:07:09 <AnMaster> right
19:07:11 <tusho> AnMaster: duh :P
19:07:17 <AnMaster> oklopol is clicking it seems
19:07:19 <tusho> you wouldn't be able to click very fast if it didn't use JS
19:07:25 <tusho> ah, seems i just spurred him on
19:07:25 <tusho> :P
19:07:41 <AnMaster> tusho, I can't see myself I noticed
19:07:42 <oklopol> i just clicked because that was linked
19:07:44 <AnMaster> weird
19:07:48 <AnMaster> or how many clicks I have
19:07:53 <tusho> AnMaster: 'cause you've dropped off the highscores
19:07:57 <oerjan> oklopol: er, what about that rabbi and that lagomorph
19:07:57 <tusho> you're about 1000 behind
19:08:02 <AnMaster> tusho, well how many do I have? exactly
19:08:07 <tusho> AnMaster: 8000 or so
19:08:11 <AnMaster> tusho, you should always show yourself
19:08:17 <tusho> so you've said.
19:08:18 <tusho> FIVE TIMES
19:08:22 <AnMaster> no
19:08:23 <oklopol> i've said it once
19:08:25 <AnMaster> first time I said it
19:08:31 <AnMaster> tusho, ais said it 5 times
19:08:35 <tusho> i'd say v4, but since people aren't using it v4 seems unlikely.
19:08:54 <oklopol> people aren't using it because they can't see themselves, methinks
19:09:36 <AnMaster> tusho, so where am I now?
19:09:44 <tusho> oklopol: except the higher-ups aren't clicking
19:09:49 <oklopol> btw i had this idea, dunno if it's any good, you could drop everyones score to half of what it was at the end of every week, and @ every drop, you get a separate point if you're @ the top 5
19:09:53 <tusho> AnMaster: i am not logging in and checking. you are 8000-something
19:09:57 <tusho> at 9002, you will be on the highscores
19:10:08 <AnMaster> tusho, I still want to know
19:10:14 <tusho> AnMaster: i am not logging in and checking.
19:10:20 <oklopol> tusho: true, coolness would definitely compete if #2 started clicking again
19:10:20 <AnMaster> tusho, I want to stop at 9000
19:10:26 <tusho> AnMaster: have fun
19:10:29 <AnMaster> tusho, then make the webui show it (second time)
19:10:32 <tusho> i am not logging in and checking.
19:10:38 <tusho> or logging in and working on it.
19:10:41 <AnMaster> tusho, then make the webui show it (third time)
19:10:44 <tusho> or logging in and working on it.
19:10:49 <AnMaster> accept that I will bug you?
19:10:55 <tusho> accept that i will /ignore you
19:10:58 <AnMaster> tusho, damn I went too far :(
19:11:09 <tusho> i have not /ignored you yet.
19:11:12 <tusho> but if you do bug me i will.
19:11:34 <oerjan> AnMaster: you just need to learn to count carefully :D
19:12:10 <tusho> AnMaster: if you get to 15,000 I will set your score to 9000
19:12:19 <AnMaster> tusho, no thanks
19:12:25 <tusho> your los
19:12:26 <tusho> s
19:12:26 <AnMaster> because if I got that far I wouldn't care
19:12:47 <tusho> AnMaster: ok, if you get to 15,000 i'll make your name fade in rainbow colours.
19:13:06 <oerjan> ON THE MOON
19:13:20 <tusho> oerjan: i'll add a picture of the death star next to him too.
19:13:25 <tusho> or rather, any 16x16 picture he gives.
19:16:28 <oerjan> 'av a 'tar...
19:18:07 <AnMaster> tusho, well maybe I'll reach that some day
19:18:10 <AnMaster> not today anyway
19:18:14 <AnMaster> got other stuff to do
19:20:18 <tusho> g
19:21:26 <AnMaster> g?
19:21:32 <tusho> g
19:21:39 <oerjan> a fine letter indeed
19:21:50 <oerjan> invented by the ancient romans
19:22:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, did they invent lower case too?
19:22:38 <oerjan> maybe not strictly speaking
19:22:39 <tusho> oerjan: what is your favourite typeface
19:22:59 <oerjan> times roman, 1000 point
19:23:23 <tusho> oerjan: i asked about typeface, not size. though i can't imagine times roman@1000pt is very readable
19:23:29 <oerjan> got to compete with old Trajan there
19:23:42 <Deewiant> ah, good old Trajan
19:23:44 <Deewiant> the movie font
19:23:44 <oerjan> it is from a distance
19:24:00 <oerjan> i mean the monument
19:24:38 <AnMaster> Tajan?
19:24:41 <AnMaster> Trajan*
19:24:42 <AnMaster> ??
19:24:46 <tusho> AnMaster: GOOGLE
19:24:54 <tusho> my favourite typeface is arial, or perhaps verdana!
19:25:12 <oerjan> ah there is a trajan font
19:25:13 <AnMaster> Marcus Ulpius Nerva Traianus, commonly known as Trajan (September 18, 53 – August 9, 117), was a Roman Emperor who reigned from 98 until his death in 117. Born Marcus Ulpius Traianus into a nonpatrician family...
19:25:15 <AnMaster> right
19:25:22 <tusho> AnMaster: and see the top line
19:25:28 <Deewiant> AnMaster: you might want to add 'font' to the google string
19:25:32 <Deewiant> given that that was the topic and all
19:26:08 <tusho> I am sad that nobody mauled me for saying my favourite font was arial or verdana
19:26:18 <tusho> Was it too subtle? Should I have said Comic Sans MS?
19:26:22 <Deewiant> I'll only maul you if... yeah, that.
19:27:13 <oerjan> Deewiant: except i did not mean the font, at first
19:27:32 <Deewiant> darn
19:27:41 <oerjan> tusho: what-everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
19:27:49 * oerjan ducks
19:27:55 <tusho> oerjan: I'm glad you care so much thanks :)
19:27:58 <tusho> Remember? More r = more care.
19:28:08 <tusho> You said it yourself.
19:28:10 <AnMaster> I prefer the Bitstream Vera family of fonts
19:28:17 * tusho mauls AnMaster
19:28:18 <oerjan> and then i changed my mind, remember?
19:28:19 <AnMaster> for printed I like Computer Modern
19:28:20 <AnMaster> :D
19:28:21 <AnMaster> it rucks
19:28:24 <AnMaster> rocks*
19:28:33 <tusho> AnMaster never ever do anything that involves anything like typography ever
19:28:35 <tusho> ok :D
19:28:42 <AnMaster> tusho, it was a joke duh
19:28:49 <AnMaster> though CM isn't that bad
19:28:55 <AnMaster> but indeed not for printed
19:28:55 <tusho> 'I prefer the Bitstream Vera family of fonts'
19:28:56 <tusho> was that a joke
19:28:59 <AnMaster> or anything
19:29:02 <tusho> because that's what i mauled you for.
19:29:06 <AnMaster> tusho, I do use it on IRC and such
19:29:16 <AnMaster> Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
19:29:19 <AnMaster> to be specific
19:29:23 <tusho> AnMaster: well, i use monaco 10pt on irc, doesn't mean i consider monaco @ 10pt typographically nice ;)
19:29:26 <AnMaster> or maybe it is dejavu
19:29:30 -!- Corun has joined.
19:29:30 <AnMaster> tusho, indeed
19:29:33 <AnMaster> but that wasn't what I said
19:29:41 <tusho> but from a typeface point of view bitstream vera fonts are pretty crap
19:29:45 <tusho> they're just so bland
19:29:51 <tusho> and the proportions are really weird, to me
19:29:53 <Deewiant> that's not necessarily bad
19:30:02 <tusho> Deewiant: yea, but it's not bland in a good way
19:30:06 <AnMaster> tusho, what do you think of CM?
19:30:09 <tusho> it's bland in an "oh, bitstream vera. beh"
19:30:22 <tusho> AnMaster: it has a charm, but i'm not a fan
19:30:24 <Deewiant> well, it's a matter of opinion
19:31:49 <tusho> i quite like Univers
19:31:52 <AnMaster> so what is a good serif?
19:31:53 <AnMaster> free
19:31:54 <tusho> but not as something to put a book in
19:31:59 <AnMaster> for use with printed stuff
19:32:07 <tusho> AnMaster: there are, like, 3 freely-licensed fonts out there.
19:32:14 <tusho> none of them are much good
19:35:15 <AnMaster> tusho, CM, LM, AE, (all variants of CM really, so not fair), Bistream Vera, Courier, Courier New, Utopia and iirc a few more
19:35:23 <AnMaster> not sure how free they are
19:35:28 <tusho> AnMaster: okay, so like 10
19:35:29 <tusho> :P
19:35:30 <AnMaster> let me check licenses for packages
19:35:53 <tusho> heck, most typefaces predate the very recent idea of "free culture"
19:36:33 <AnMaster> yes...
19:38:40 <AnMaster> well Utopia isn't open, it is free as in beer only it seems
19:39:00 <AnMaster> provided you include "Copyright (c) 1989 Adobe Systems Incorporated"
19:39:02 <AnMaster> heh
19:39:03 <tusho> AnMaster: funny - if you drop the capital from the U there it seems to remain just as true.
19:39:21 <AnMaster> tusho, topia?
19:39:26 <tusho> 'the capital from the U'
19:39:29 <tusho> i.e. it becomes 'u'
19:39:40 <AnMaster> um
19:39:43 <tusho> "well utopia isn't open, it is free as in beer only it seems"
19:39:53 <AnMaster> well utopia doesn't exist :P
19:42:10 <oklopol> utopia, by definition, does not exist
19:42:23 <oklopol> it is a word though
19:42:30 <AnMaster> ye
19:42:31 <AnMaster> yes*
19:42:59 <tusho> utopia/heaven is a paradox anyway
19:43:08 <tusho> "everything is perfect" sounds awful to me
19:43:22 <tusho> life is great because of all the bad stuff, all the little less-than-perfect thiings, combined with the perfect things
19:43:28 <tusho> everything perfect is just draining and monotonous
19:43:49 * oerjan wants to beat up tusho now to make him happier
19:44:02 <tusho> oerjan: er, not quite :D
19:44:28 <oerjan> and that btw was almost no joke at all
19:44:33 <oklopol> life is awesome
19:44:45 <tusho> oerjan: you disagree with me then? :P
19:44:47 <tusho> oklopol: totally!
19:44:51 <oerjan> yep
19:45:08 <AnMaster> <tusho> oerjan: er, not quite :D <-- so you aren't into that then?
19:45:08 <AnMaster> ;P
19:45:13 <tusho> oerjan: wanna advance some arguments? :P
19:45:45 <oerjan> if boredom is possible, then it is not really perfect
19:46:03 <tusho> oerjan: right, but boredom isn't perfect
19:46:08 <tusho> therefore if it is perfect it cannot have boredom
19:46:19 <tusho> ergo nothing is perfect and utopia/heaven cannot exist
19:46:21 <oklopol> it's 5 years since i last was bored
19:46:30 <oklopol> i don't really remember what it feels like
19:46:36 <oerjan> O_O
19:46:38 <oklopol> probably just as fun as the rest though
19:47:55 <oerjan> oklopol: you need to write a self-help book for others to learn that :D
19:47:56 <tusho> oklopol: i am going to grep "oklopol" "i'm" "bored"
19:48:03 <tusho> and "oklopol" "i" "am" "bored"
19:48:06 <tusho> in optbot's logs
19:48:07 <optbot> tusho: Among other things, Linux 0.1 has a hard-coded keyboard map. . .
19:48:08 <tusho> and we'll see.
19:48:51 <oklopol> you do that
19:50:19 <oklopol> tusho: done?
19:50:26 <tusho> almost
19:51:04 <tusho> tusho@rutian:~/optbot$ egrep -i "<oklopol>.*i'm.*bored" *
19:51:04 <tusho> 07.11.04:12:54:10 <oklopol> i'm not bored
19:51:05 <tusho> tusho@rutian:~/optbot$
19:51:05 <tusho> lol
19:51:05 <optbot> tusho: how about run-time lazy type checking? :P
19:51:05 <optbot> tusho: not that
19:51:30 <tusho> and nothing for i am bored
19:51:40 <tusho> oklopol: you win
19:52:37 <oklopol> what a surprise :P
19:52:40 <AnMaster> tusho, what about me?
19:53:04 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway you forgot oklofok
19:53:06 <AnMaster> and a few more
19:53:10 <oklopol> while you're at it, why not find an occasion of me complaining about the rain
19:53:20 <oklopol> or perhaps that i hate esoteric languages
19:53:40 <tusho> AnMaster: oklokok has never been bored either, now for oklofok
19:53:58 <tusho> nope
19:54:03 <AnMaster> tusho, and me?
19:54:06 <tusho> AnMaster: none
19:54:10 <AnMaster> hah
19:54:10 <tusho> not searching /mes
19:54:13 <tusho> cause i can't be arsed
19:54:15 <oklopol> tusho: try never+bored
19:54:23 <tusho> oklopol: no lazy
19:54:56 <AnMaster> tusho, what about yourself?
19:55:19 <tusho> wtf
19:55:19 <tusho> no results
19:55:24 <tusho> that's not right
19:55:39 <AnMaster> I'm usually not bored either
19:55:46 <AnMaster> I tend to rather have too much to do
19:57:08 <oerjan> there can be only one explanation
19:57:14 <oerjan> oklopol is satan
19:57:22 <AnMaster> oerjan, eh?
19:57:24 <oklopol> tusho: try "was bored"
19:57:39 <oklopol> i don't believe in satans
19:58:01 <oerjan> that's what you want us to think
19:59:45 <AnMaster> I can be bored by doing stuff sure, but never because I got nothing to do
20:00:11 <oklopol> AnMaster: what does that mean?
20:00:12 <fizzie> tusho: I obviously have nothing against a fungot book, but I have no clue whatsoever whether the stuff fungot spews out is some sort of a derived work.
20:00:12 <fungot> fizzie: i understand what u were asking
20:00:24 <tusho> fizzie: fair use probably
20:00:42 <tusho> i guess i'll just make a book with all sorts of non-directed writing
20:00:48 <oerjan> stolen fair and square
20:01:00 <tusho> markov bots, where you write without trying to write anything in particualr ( i forget the term)
20:01:02 <tusho> etc.
20:01:51 <Mony> bye
20:01:55 -!- Mony has quit ("À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire...").
20:03:47 <oklopol> bye
20:04:03 <oklopol> what's vaincre?
20:04:20 <oerjan> darn
20:04:35 <oerjan> i was trying not to wonder about that
20:05:01 <oerjan> Vaincre - To conquer
20:05:55 <oklopol> ah
20:06:05 <oklopol> is peril... err... peril?
20:06:15 <oerjan> you'd think so
20:06:23 <oklopol> no i wouldn't
20:06:33 <oerjan> or danger
20:08:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anything new with befunge the last few days?
20:08:02 <oerjan> http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/p%C3%A9ril
20:08:05 <AnMaster> haven't had time to keep up
20:08:09 <oerjan> it even has the quote
20:12:27 <Deewiant> AnMaster: not really afaik
20:13:08 <oklopol> beeeeeeeeeeee
20:13:28 <oerjan> did you get stung?
20:14:27 <oklopol> yes i sure and totally did
20:14:31 <oklopol> it was effin awesome
20:14:40 <tusho> oklopol: do you not feel pain
20:14:48 <oklopol> i shall be leaving now, need to read my book
20:14:51 <oklopol> i do feel pain
20:14:56 <oklopol> i don't really feel cold though
20:18:09 <fizzie> Robots do not feel pain!
20:18:35 <tusho> oklopol: so wait
20:18:39 <tusho> does the pain, like, hurt?
20:18:48 <tusho> you don't seem to have the averse reaction that most humans do to it.
20:19:17 <oklopol> it doesn't really hurt when bees sting
20:19:31 <oklopol> and pain isn't usually that bad
20:20:00 <oklopol> unless it's in the eye or the ...belly button, seems i only know the kid term :P
20:20:20 <fizzie> Navel.
20:20:47 <fizzie> As in, "navel-gazing", an idiom I don't think we have in Finnish. Or do we?
20:21:14 <fizzie> 1. omphaloskepsis, navel-gazing -- (literally, the contemplation of one's navel, which is an idiom usually meaning complacent self-absorption)
20:21:35 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "navankatselu" or something.
20:22:21 <oerjan> well, navlebeskuelse is in norwegian
20:23:08 <oklopol> well people talk about caring only about ones own navel
20:23:18 <oklopol> but i'm not sure there's an actual idiom
20:23:49 <fizzie> The MOT dictionary translates navel-gazing as "omaan napaan tuijottaminen", lit. "staring at one's own navel", but I don't think it's exactly the same thing.
20:24:08 <fizzie> There's a distinct sense of selfishness there.
20:24:26 <oklopol> well i don't know navel-gazing
20:24:40 <oklopol> assumed it's selffishness
20:24:45 <oklopol> *selfishness
20:25:17 <oklopol> a social fish so selfish
20:25:23 <fizzie> Shellfish.
20:25:28 <oklopol> how can that be
20:25:31 <oklopol> hmm
20:25:42 <oklopol> well that's not really pronounced the same
20:25:50 <oklopol> but if you can fit it in, it would make that better
20:26:08 <oklopol> not that social fish and so selfish are pronounced the same either
20:26:24 <fizzie> It can be if you have "s"-pronunciation trouble, I think.
20:26:36 <oerjan> the olde shibboleth
20:26:37 <oklopol> like,lisp
20:26:40 <oklopol> like, lisp
20:26:51 <oklopol> lisp can do that!
20:27:07 <oklopol> hmm actually lisp is that other thing i think
20:27:13 <oklopol> godfuck, i really need to read :)
20:27:14 <oklopol> ->
20:28:24 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
20:28:33 <psygnisfive> tusho
20:28:37 <tusho> oh no
20:28:48 <psygnisfive> you look like david deutsch.
20:28:53 <tusho> ok.
20:28:59 <psygnisfive> only younger.
20:29:03 <psygnisfive> and more esoteric.
20:29:08 <AnMaster> <tusho> oh no <-- hey! for once that wasn't directed at me! :D
20:29:10 * AnMaster runs
20:29:27 <fizzie> LITHP is said to be useful in protheththing lithtth. Says the fortune.
20:29:49 <psygnisfive> i like how you didn't lisp all the s's
20:30:02 <fizzie> Only the part I was directly quoting.
20:30:16 <fizzie> You know you just missed oklopol, right?
20:30:52 <oerjan> we all miss him. it was such a tragedy.
20:31:06 <fizzie> A senseless waste of human life.
20:31:16 <psygnisfive> as long as the body's still warm
20:31:24 <oerjan> imagine, to be drowned in koskenkorva. well it was appropriately finnish at least.
20:32:39 <AnMaster> koskenkorva?
20:33:13 <oerjan> swedes should use absolut instead
20:33:29 <psygnisfive> transvestites love jar jar binks.
20:33:52 <oerjan> jar-jar, you're a genius
20:35:17 <AnMaster> oerjan, I'm a "nykterist"
20:35:23 <AnMaster> not sure if you got a word for that over there
20:35:45 <AnMaster> nor sure of English word
20:35:59 <oerjan> teetotaller
20:36:01 <tusho> AnMaster: what does that mean?
20:36:02 <tusho> teet- ah.
20:38:34 <psygnisfive> it means teet?
20:38:35 <psygnisfive> :P
20:38:44 <fizzie> In Finnish the corresponding word is "absolutisti", and there are lots of bad puns related to that and the "Absolut" brand vodka.
20:39:00 <tusho> fizzie: Absolut-isti
20:39:02 <tusho> haha i maed pun
20:39:17 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, tusho, it means I don't drink alcohol
20:39:25 <tusho> i am aware.
20:39:32 <tusho> god, you treat me like a preschooler
20:39:40 <AnMaster> well you asked me
20:39:41 <oerjan> norwegian: avholdsmann/-kvinne
20:39:43 <AnMaster> ...
20:39:48 <tusho> AnMaster: no, but oerjan already said it
20:39:49 <tusho> and i said 'ah'.
20:39:52 <AnMaster> oerjan, sounds like it fit
20:40:03 <tusho> also just because someone makes a joke -see psygnisfive- doesn't mean they don't understand
20:40:49 <psygnisfive> so whats new in the world of esolangs guys
20:40:59 <tusho> nothing
20:41:12 -!- kar8nga has quit ("Leaving.").
20:41:17 -!- kar8nga has joined.
20:41:28 <Corun> ¿./$%./..$%$$$/././.$$./././.%%%$$$%$%$%/./.$%/.$%$%$%$$$$$$$$?
20:41:33 <Corun> That could totally be an esolang.
20:41:44 <psygnisfive> its not already?
20:41:50 <oerjan> probably another bf clone
20:41:55 <psygnisfive> yeah.
20:42:00 <psygnisfive> most esolangs are bf clones :(
20:42:08 <psygnisfive> cyphered BF clones.
20:42:09 <psygnisfive> :\
20:42:17 <Corun> Yeah, malbolge is totally a bf clone.
20:42:34 <oerjan> theoretically all are, if you just make the cypher complicated enough :D
20:42:44 <psygnisfive> corun: do you understand the meaning of "most"?
20:42:47 <psygnisfive> im guessing not.
20:43:03 <oerjan> mm, most
20:43:06 <Corun> Do you understand that I was clearly not being serious
20:43:07 <oerjan> eplemost, that is
20:43:12 <Corun> I'm guessing not :-)
20:43:31 <psygnisfive> so you weren't being sarcastic?
20:43:32 <tusho> Corun: psygnisfive only understands the 'joke with punchline' kind of humour
20:43:36 <Corun> Oh
20:43:42 <tusho> (He's american)
20:43:59 <psygnisfive> quite the contrary tusho
20:44:04 <tusho> what
20:44:05 <psygnisfive> i interpreted what he said as being sarcastic
20:44:07 <tusho> youre not amercian?
20:44:09 <psygnisfive> hence why i responded why i did
20:44:31 <Corun> I was being sarcastic, but I was also not being serious.
20:44:36 <tusho> Corun: exactly
20:44:48 <tusho> he was joking with sarcasm
20:44:51 <psygnisfive> i don't see the point of it. was it supposed to be funny?
20:44:54 <psygnisfive> as tusho implies?
20:44:55 <tusho> psygnisfive: it was funny
20:44:59 <tusho> i chuckled
20:45:06 <psygnisfive> yes, but ask yourself why
20:45:37 <psygnisfive> if you chuckled because you thought it was a humorous retort against what i said, then it fails, because its not a retort at all.
20:45:42 <tusho> no
20:45:43 <tusho> i didn't
20:45:46 <psygnisfive> ok.
20:45:51 <tusho> see, you're treating it as sarcasm to make a serious point
20:45:51 <AnMaster> oerjan, only most?
20:45:52 <psygnisfive> you have a weird sense of humor then.
20:45:57 <tusho> he was being sarcastic to make a joke
20:46:04 <psygnisfive> i dont get the joke.
20:46:10 <psygnisfive> why is it funny?
20:46:10 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh true, there are the quantum ones, and then the banana-scheme or whatever it was called
20:46:12 <AnMaster> right
20:46:44 <AnMaster> what line are you referring to psygnisfive and tusho?
20:46:57 <Corun> My line about malbolge
20:47:00 <psygnisfive> the comment that Malbolge is a BF clone
20:47:07 <tusho> psygnisfive: that is not the comment
20:47:16 <tusho> Corun: see. american. :|
20:47:21 <psygnisfive> tusho: what?
20:47:24 <psygnisfive> yes it is
20:47:26 <psygnisfive> "CorunYeah, malbolge is totally a bf clone."
20:47:35 <tusho> psygnisfive: yes, but it was a sarcastic comment
20:47:39 <psygnisfive> i know that
20:47:43 <tusho> and then, it evaluated then inverted
20:47:46 <tusho> to account for sarcasm
20:47:50 <tusho> that statement that you get there
20:47:51 <tusho> was a joke
20:48:02 <psygnisfive> humor is not sarcasm
20:48:07 <psygnisfive> and sarcasm is not humor
20:48:08 <tusho> no
20:48:11 <tusho> that was not the humour
20:48:15 <tusho> the sarcasm was a layer over the humour
20:48:15 <psygnisfive> then what was the humor
20:48:16 <tusho> god
20:48:23 <tusho> psygnisfive: the humour was in the statement post-sarcasm processing
20:48:26 <oklopol> this is all so confusing
20:48:28 <tusho> and yet it wouldn't be funny without the sarcasm
20:48:36 <psygnisfive> what post-sarcasm processing?
20:48:39 <tusho> now shut the hell up and stop saying "lol i didnt get it lol" over and over again.
20:48:40 <tusho> thanks.
20:48:45 <psygnisfive> the inversion of the meaning?
20:48:52 <tusho> yes.
20:48:54 <oklopol> i don't get it
20:48:59 <psygnisfive> sarcasm _is_ inversion of meaning.
20:49:00 <tusho> Corun: can you just explain it to him
20:49:00 <tusho> kthx
20:49:03 <psygnisfive> so where is the humor.
20:49:17 <psygnisfive> tusho, you're just an idiot and don't know what the fuck you're laughing about.
20:49:27 <tusho> psygnisfive: yes, and fuck you do
20:49:29 <tusho> *too
20:50:16 <psygnisfive> corun, what makes it funny.
20:50:33 <oerjan> #esoteric, the channel with TC humor
20:50:55 * tusho is vaguely amused that psygnisfive, faced with something he can't understand, always claims that others are just fools instead of accepting that he was the one who didn't get it
20:51:42 <oerjan> now _that's_ american *ducks*
20:52:02 <tusho> oerjan: :)
20:52:06 <fizzie> What, are American ducks somehow different? NURRR so confused.
20:52:07 <psygnisfive> tusho, perhaps the fact that your explanations are vacuous is why i called you an idiot
20:52:10 <AnMaster> <psygnisfive> "Corun Yeah, malbolge is totally a bf clone."
20:52:11 <AnMaster> well
20:52:20 <AnMaster> <oerjan> theoretically all are, if you just make the cypher complicated enough :D
20:52:23 <AnMaster> there
20:52:24 <oerjan> fizzie: they come in pairs
20:52:41 <Corun> Sigh
20:52:44 <tusho> hmm, I see we are all displaying our talents
20:52:52 <tusho> psygnisfive randomly insulting everyone because he doesn't get something
20:52:56 <tusho> AnMaster missing a joke
20:53:00 <tusho> and oerjan making a terrible joke
20:53:00 <oerjan> AnMaster: i _was_ forgetting the super-TC ones though
20:53:03 <tusho> and Corun sighing
20:53:15 <psygnisfive> and tusho being an idiot.
20:53:19 <fizzie> I don't have a special talent? :(
20:53:20 <psygnisfive> can't forget that.
20:53:24 <AnMaster> oerjan, as I suggested
20:53:24 <Corun> -=S¡gH-=
20:53:34 <tusho> fizzie: no, as you're generally reasonable.
20:53:36 <AnMaster> oerjan, is Quantum ones super-TC?
20:53:39 <AnMaster> I guess not
20:53:45 <psygnisfive> /saɪ/
20:53:55 <tusho> psygnisfive: you win the prize for 'closest demonstration of point':'when point was said' ratio.
20:53:55 <fizzie> I guess I need some sort of special power now, to fit in here.
20:54:00 <tusho> congratz.
20:54:21 <tusho> although i ask, if i'm always such an idiot, why don't you just /ignore me?
20:54:22 <psygnisfive> anmaster: if you ask david deutsch, quantum computers are not more powerful than turing machinese
20:54:25 <psygnisfive> they're just faster
20:54:28 <oerjan> AnMaster: no, just more space efficient
20:54:41 <AnMaster> right
20:54:53 <AnMaster> anyway I'm so sleepy
20:54:56 <AnMaster> going to bed
20:54:57 <AnMaster> night
20:54:57 <tusho> his lack of reply shows that he might have
20:54:59 <tusho> awesome
20:55:04 * tusho brbs regardless
20:55:28 <oerjan> er wait
20:55:30 <psygnisfive> tusho: sorry, i didn't see what you said. i didn't say you're always an idiot, just that you excel at it.
20:55:32 <oerjan> _time_ efficient
20:55:51 <psygnisfive> and space efficient.
20:55:57 <psygnisfive> tho it depends on how you define space :)
20:56:34 <Corun> It was funny because of multiple reasons. The thought of malbolge being a bf clone is, in itself, slightly amusing. But it wouldn't be properly funny without the sarcasm because the sarcasm makes it appear as though it's a serious point. Except that actually, it's just intended as a joke. Which, also makes it more funny.
20:56:41 <psygnisfive> given that quantum computations occur on more particles in more universes than there are particles in ours, that might be considered slightly inefficient
20:56:42 <psygnisfive> lol.
20:57:20 <psygnisfive> corun: ok. i still don't see how its funny to simply state something that's false as tho it were true.
20:57:29 <psygnisfive> the sky is red! lololol.
20:57:35 <Corun> You're not looking at the detail
20:57:40 <Corun> It doesn't work with just any statement
20:57:47 <Corun> You can't apply simple rules to make humour
20:58:24 <Corun> In that exact context, it was funny. But you didn't find it funny cos you took it as a serious statement
20:58:25 <oerjan> ayeeh! the sky is blood-colored! armageddon is at hand!
20:58:29 <psygnisfive> sure but i dont see why its even funny in context
20:58:41 <Corun> And you're not gonna find it funny looking back because the moment is lost
20:59:08 <psygnisfive> indeed.
20:59:17 <Corun> Not only is it lost
20:59:20 <Corun> BUT YOU RUINED IT.
20:59:22 <Corun> :-)
20:59:22 <psygnisfive> i just can't even imagine how it might be funny.
20:59:27 <psygnisfive> i think you ruined it.
20:59:29 <psygnisfive> by saying it.
20:59:30 <psygnisfive> :P
20:59:52 <oklopol> can i have a special talent?
20:59:55 <oklopol> being absent?
20:59:59 <psygnisfive> being sexy.
21:00:02 <oerjan> oklopol: you're the pervert
21:00:13 <psygnisfive> oklopol is certainly not a pervert, oerjan
21:00:14 <Corun> It's not like, "rofl" funny. But it is kinda "heh" funny. I mean, it's just a slight joke. Ya know.
21:00:18 <psygnisfive> not with me in the room.
21:00:41 <psygnisfive> corun: the majority of people i know say "heh" to indicate unfunniness. :P
21:00:53 <Corun> Heh.
21:00:55 <psygnisfive> its the small fake laugh you give when someone failed to be funny.
21:00:59 <oerjan> don't pop my prejudices!
21:01:10 <psygnisfive> can i pop your something else?
21:01:16 <Corun> You're wrong again ;-)
21:01:22 <oerjan> maybe
21:01:26 <psygnisfive> im wrong again about most people i know?
21:01:27 <Corun> No-one says "heh" in actual speach
21:01:37 <Corun> And in IRC it just means a small laugh
21:01:37 <psygnisfive> says you!
21:01:45 <psygnisfive> well we obviously know different people
21:01:51 <Corun> The people you know suck.
21:01:53 <Corun> :-)
21:01:57 <psygnisfive> many of them do!
21:02:08 <oklopol> i'm more perverted than psygnisfive, i'm just more shy about it
21:02:14 <fizzie> That's still better than "don't mind if I do".
21:02:17 <psygnisfive> oklopol: you so aren't
21:02:26 <oklopol> we'll see
21:02:33 <oklopol> ...shall we now 8|
21:02:36 <Corun> I hope that was a pun
21:02:40 <psygnisfive> your big perversion is MAYBE scat.
21:02:42 <oklopol> i really need to read ->
21:02:54 <oklopol> is that so?
21:02:56 <fizzie> You both need to publish your purity test results, that's a good starting point at least.
21:03:06 <psygnisfive> or atleast thats all you'll admit to.
21:03:07 <oklopol> psygnisfive: you have no idea about my perversions
21:03:23 <psygnisfive> and by admit i mean reply at all. :P
21:03:27 <oklopol> and i haven't admitted anything.
21:03:37 <psygnisfive> i want you to admit EVERYTHING! i want to know it all.
21:03:38 <psygnisfive> :3
21:04:12 <oklopol> reading, if you really wanna, you can be more perverted, i was just trying to make oerjan feel better
21:04:25 <psygnisfive> dont. oerjan deserves nothing.
21:05:10 * oerjan cries
21:05:20 <oerjan> psygnisfive is mean!
21:05:31 <psygnisfive> BLAME TUSHO. HE MAKED ME ANGRY. GRR.
21:05:44 <psygnisfive> normally i'd give you marshmallows and hugs but nooooo
21:09:02 <tusho> back
21:23:44 <psygnisfive> hey bitch.
21:24:57 <tusho> no.
21:27:48 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night").
21:30:33 <psygnisfive> no, not hey?
21:42:47 <Deewiant> tusho: closures in objective-C, http://www.macresearch.org/cocoa-scientists-part-xxvii-getting-closure-objective-c
21:42:54 <tusho> Deewiant: yes, seen it
21:42:56 <tusho> like, 5 days ago.
21:42:57 <tusho> on reddit.
21:43:05 <Deewiant> great
21:43:07 <tusho> my toying about was inspired by that
21:43:13 <Deewiant> ah
21:43:16 <tusho> i think my {} syntax is nicer than theirs, though
21:43:24 <tusho> and their type syntax is almost the same as funtion pointers
21:43:28 <tusho> thus still has the problem i mentioned
21:43:34 <tusho> also, theirs are less flexible regarding modifying vars
21:44:09 <psygnisfive> i commented on it :D
21:44:29 <psygnisfive> they unfortunately conflate a number of issues in that article.
21:44:36 <psygnisfive> or they atleast dont adequately distinguish them.
21:45:03 <tusho> yes, i know
21:45:06 <tusho> that;s not the point
21:45:08 <tusho> the feature is what i saw
21:45:22 <oklopol> Last week, Chris Lattner — who manages the Clang, LLVM, and GCC groups at Apple — announced that work was well underway to bring ‘blocks’ to the GCC and Clang compilers. ‘So what?’, I hear you ask, ‘My kid has been using blocks since he was 9 months old.’ Fair point, but maybe not these blocks.
21:45:28 <oklopol> ...
21:45:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | and it's wrong.
21:46:18 <tusho> oklopol: welcome to "shitty programming sites"
21:54:26 <oklopol> i do think there was something magical in "Fair point, but maybe not these blocks.", but otherwise, that was a god-awful joke :)
21:55:43 <psygnisfive> ::plays with oklopols blocks::
21:56:51 <tusho> oklopol: it seems that the more theoretical a scientist is the better jokes he makes
21:57:01 <tusho> see: oerjan's terrible puns, his being a mathematician
21:57:44 <psygnisfive> mathematics is almost purely theoretical
21:57:53 <psygnisfive> surely you mean theoretical ~ worse jokes then
21:59:03 <tusho> psygnisfive: but oerjan's terrible puns are greart
21:59:08 <tusho> much better than that blocks joke
21:59:14 <tusho> which is on a science site not a mathematics site
22:00:09 <oklopol> well, in books about game-programming you find stuff like "this is a good thing.... NOT!", ai - a modern approach has had like 3 jokes, and i've actually laughed out loud once
22:00:44 <psygnisfive> so then.. oerjans puns arent terrible they're great? D:
22:00:46 <psygnisfive> im confused! :(
22:02:05 <oklopol> terrible and great don't really differ much in meaning
22:02:21 <psygnisfive> terrible is bad, great is good.
22:02:35 <tusho> psygnisfive: no.
22:02:38 <psygnisfive> yes?
22:02:40 <tusho> oerjan's puns are terrible and great.
22:02:45 <psygnisfive> D:
22:02:47 <psygnisfive> im confused!
22:02:51 <psygnisfive> you confuse me!
22:02:52 <tusho> psygnisfive: you are using logic
22:02:53 <tusho> stop that
22:03:00 <psygnisfive> in what sense are they terrible?
22:03:18 <tusho> if you need explaining after reading one...
22:03:30 <psygnisfive> terrible like unfunny painful and stupid, or terrible in the way thats funny?
22:03:39 <psygnisfive> :(
22:03:40 <tusho> terrible in a "oh god, that joke was awful, ahahaahah"
22:03:48 <tusho> and the "ahahahahahah" bit leads to the "great" bit.
22:03:50 <psygnisfive> funny in its awfulness. ok.
22:03:58 <psygnisfive> as opposed to just awful.
22:04:26 <oklopol> this channel should be more o-ful
22:04:28 <oklopol> o
22:04:28 <oklopol> o
22:04:28 <oklopol> o
22:04:31 <tusho> oko
22:04:36 <psygnisfive> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
22:04:39 <tusho> no psygnisfive
22:04:42 <tusho> we were doing an oko tower.
22:04:44 <tusho> o
22:04:53 <psygnisfive> an oko tower?
22:04:55 <tusho> yes
22:04:56 <tusho> like this
22:04:56 <tusho> o
22:04:57 <tusho> oko
22:04:58 <tusho> okoko
22:04:59 <tusho> okoko
22:05:01 <tusho> er
22:05:05 <tusho> fucked up there :D
22:05:05 <tusho> o
22:05:06 <tusho> oko
22:05:07 <tusho> okoko
22:05:08 <tusho> okokoko
22:05:10 <tusho> okokokoko
22:05:12 <tusho> okokokokoko
22:05:14 <tusho> okokokokokoko
22:05:16 <tusho> okokokokokokoko
22:05:18 <tusho> okokokokokokokoko
22:05:20 <tusho> okokokokokokokokoko
22:05:22 <tusho> okokokokokokokoko
22:05:24 <tusho> okokokokokokoko
22:05:26 <tusho> okokokokokoko
22:05:28 <tusho> okokokokoko
22:05:30 <tusho> okokokoko
22:05:32 <tusho> okokoko
22:05:34 <tusho> okoko
22:05:36 <tusho> oko
22:05:38 <psygnisfive> no.
22:05:38 <tusho> o
22:05:40 <tusho> oklopol invented them on his own, then people started doing them collaboratively.
22:05:42 <tusho> we haven't seen as many lately
22:05:53 <psygnisfive> we werent doing that at all.
22:06:08 <tusho> oh yes we were
22:06:09 <tusho> right oklopol
22:06:10 <psygnisfive> also, oklopol, you're insane.
22:06:10 <psygnisfive> :P
22:06:14 <psygnisfive> <3u
22:06:42 <oklopol> i've invented oko *towers* perhaps, but this is not the birthplace of oko, and i'm not the inventor of it
22:07:24 <tusho> oklopol: i imagine it came from #vjn?
22:07:32 <tusho> well, I claim that since #vjn is apparently a finnish place
22:07:34 <oklopol> yes, but no one there really remembers how it started
22:07:36 <tusho> and there are only 2 people in finland
22:07:40 <oklopol> :P
22:07:40 <tusho> that the chances that YOU invented oko
22:07:45 <tusho> as one of the two people in finland
22:07:47 <tusho> and thus in #vjn
22:07:49 <oklopol> it's more likely coolness invented it.
22:07:51 <tusho> is extraordinarily high.
22:07:55 <oklopol> but we don't know for sure
22:07:55 <tusho> oklopol: you are coolness
22:07:58 <oklopol> he's the other guy
22:08:08 <tusho> no ,the other guy is Deewiant & fizzie
22:08:13 <oklopol> oh, right
22:08:19 <oklopol> sometimes i get confused myself.
22:08:19 <tusho> and the rest of that crowd of #esoteric
22:08:24 <tusho> #vjn is just you, i think
22:08:27 <oklopol> :P
22:08:33 <oklopol> well there's a swedish guy on the chan
22:08:44 <oklopol> actually not anymore
22:08:49 <tusho> that was AnMaster
22:09:32 <psygnisfive> #vjn?
22:09:58 <oklopol> vjn basically means me and my friends
22:10:05 <oklopol> although we're a registered group
22:10:11 <tusho> oklopol: all your friends are you, though
22:10:14 <tusho> we've just established that
22:10:19 <tusho> so vjn is a synonym for oklopol.
22:10:20 <oklopol> tusho: that's a bit beside the point
22:10:23 <tusho> oklopol is a registered group.
22:10:28 <tusho> containing: oklopol
22:10:34 <tusho> russel is spinning in his grave
22:10:37 <tusho> yes, spinning
22:10:41 <oklopol> well physically maybe, but it's better to think of my personas as separate people, especially on irc
22:10:47 <oklopol> well
22:10:55 <tusho> still, oko is a kind of metaphysical spiritual thing
22:11:00 <tusho> so it makes sense to say you invented it
22:11:04 <tusho> even if it was another aspect of you
22:11:07 <oklopol> we discovered an interesting bug in the finnish registered group system
22:11:13 <oklopol> a group can join another group
22:11:25 <oklopol> so it can join itself, as that's not explicitly disallowed
22:11:45 <oklopol> we can immediately see there are all kinds of fun infinite loops
22:11:49 <tusho> oklopol: do it
22:11:52 <oklopol> for instance @ voting
22:12:07 <oklopol> well we were thinking more like making a few more groups, then joining in a chain
22:12:11 <oklopol> so it's less obvious
22:12:40 <oklopol> i need to watch some stuff ->
22:13:47 <psygnisfive> did russell die before godel proved incompleteness?
22:15:17 <tusho> psygnisfive: dunno
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