00:08:30 <fizzie> The longer descriptions at the image pages are more... verbose.
00:09:12 <fizzie> For example, the one with the short description "mailboxes" has a long description: "Mailboxes. Lowercase 'a', lowercase 'b'... uppercase 'C'? Why? Why?! OHGAHGHGHAGH WHAT DOES IT MEAN!! AN ARMY OF SNEEZING WANGS STALKS MY NIGHTMARE ...really, there wasn't that much to see."
00:09:41 <fizzie> Sleep is necessary now. Already 02am in this time zone.
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01:04:23 <GregorR> My discovery of the day: Chocolate + maple = good
02:05:17 * Sgeo won in a shoppa match (in Worms)
03:48:10 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | and it does actually have goto :P.
04:41:41 <pikhq> My discovery of the day: CengageNOW sucks balls.
04:42:15 <pikhq> The homework in my calc III class is done via it...
04:42:20 <pikhq> Unfortunately, it is currently down.
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08:15:21 <oklopol> This is recursion. It is perfectly normal and no cause for alarm.
08:17:34 <fizzie> optbot: Re topic, what has goto?
08:17:34 <optbot> fizzie: That's not monospaced.
08:17:50 <fizzie> optbot: Blame your IRC client for the font, not me.
08:17:56 <fizzie> optbot: Well hey there!
08:17:56 <optbot> fizzie: Then I let go :-P
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09:48:10 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | where a pointer of some sort travels through the whitespace, constrained by black pixel walls, with other color pixels being instructions..
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11:13:14 <tusho> gotta love the phrase 'AN ARMY OF SNEEZING WANGS STALKS MY NIGHTMARE'
11:13:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
11:14:42 <tusho> oerjan: AN ARMY OF SNEEZING WANGS STALKS MY NIGHTMARE
11:15:20 <tusho> i had said that i love the phrase
11:15:25 <tusho> but not that they did, in fact, stalk my nightmare
11:15:33 <tusho> i gave you new information
11:15:46 <tusho> http://zem.fi/g2/v/Travel/2007/Lieksa/img_3488.jpg.html hahahaha "Beware of crazy people skiing without snow." :D
11:16:04 <oerjan> hm wang = jaw or jawbone
11:16:42 <tusho> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wang#Etymology_2, I assume
11:16:45 <oerjan> or are these chinese people?
11:17:05 <oerjan> wiktionary never comes up when i google
11:17:29 <tusho> so don't google :P
11:18:05 <oerjan> it's on the fourth google page
11:18:35 <tusho> http://zem.fi/g2/v/Travel/2007/Lieksa/img_3499.jpg.html
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11:26:07 <fizzie> Should've tried to find that same tree, though. But I didn't have the sign picture as a reference when taking the new one.
11:27:21 <tusho> fizzie: Does an army of sneezing wangs still stalk your nightmare?
11:34:30 <fizzie> No, it has receded. The source was http://isometric.sixsided.org/_/i_have_horrible_allergies/ -- doesn't seem to be too googlable, thanks to the text-in-pictures thing.
11:37:21 <tusho> fizzie: reminds me of storygen
11:46:21 <Slereah> Do you know Mathematica well?
11:47:41 <Slereah> Is there a function that transforms a function into the computation of its error?
11:48:21 <Slereah> Like a*b -> ((Da/a) + (Db/b) + (Da*Db/a*b)) *ab
11:48:47 <Slereah> i tried looking for "error" in the help, but all I get are error functions.
11:50:23 <Slereah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagation_of_error
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12:12:37 <mtve> quite an esoteric language - http://www.gameroo.nl/games/light-bot
12:14:10 <Slereah> "The whole notion of significant digits is heavily flawed"
12:14:17 <Slereah> Damn you physics professors >:|
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12:17:38 <tusho> pikhq: are you there?
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14:29:38 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: And it's cheap!
14:30:08 <Mony> optbot, are u sure ? ;)
14:30:08 <optbot> Mony: is it just like that?
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14:56:36 <AnMaster> optbot, are you a random bot or do you actually try to make sense? ;P
14:56:37 <optbot> AnMaster: This is, to quote Marimite, my way of ``running away'' from exams :P
14:56:52 <tusho> AnMaster: that made sense
14:56:53 <AnMaster> optbot, are you trying to avoid my question?
14:56:54 <optbot> AnMaster: a few of them is alright
14:57:37 <AnMaster> I think he may be saying that it is his way to relax, to turn his brain off
14:57:42 <AnMaster> optbot, are you male or female?
14:57:42 <optbot> AnMaster: hard to say if something is a euphamism
14:58:08 <tusho> AnMaster: hes saying that genders don't matter to him
14:58:27 <tusho> optbot: and yet you're cheerful?
14:58:27 <optbot> tusho: speaking of drugs, i need caffeine
14:58:33 <tusho> his solution is drugs.
14:58:44 <tusho> optbot: we're gonna have to put you in rehab
14:58:45 <optbot> tusho: to allow pushing several in one row
14:58:56 <tusho> optbot: no, you can't take drugs any more sorry
14:58:56 <optbot> tusho: what is your complaint
14:59:07 <tusho> optbot: drugs are bad for computer programs mmkay
14:59:12 <AnMaster> tusho, and that explains why he is talking nonsense sometimes. Some drugs make you act weird
14:59:19 <tusho> optbot: no, i'm pretty sure artificial programs in memory shouldn't take drugs :D
14:59:24 <optbot> tusho: smalltalk is pretty cool.
14:59:31 <tusho> optbot: yes i can see you are an expert at it
14:59:31 <optbot> tusho: then i realized it actually was elp!
14:59:37 <tusho> o_____________________o
14:59:45 <tusho> optbot: what is elp
14:59:45 <optbot> tusho: well the ones with a computational agent, a turtle, are the ones people usually make, simple to invent, usually tc, not at all nice to program
14:59:57 <tusho> looks like he's back on the drugs
15:00:11 <AnMaster> tusho, actually he may be speaking of Logo
15:00:26 <AnMaster> tusho, now that I can't answer
15:02:13 <AnMaster> optbot, so were you talking about Logo there?
15:02:47 <AnMaster> optbot, That reply would had made sense for a statement, but I asked a question...
15:02:57 <AnMaster> tusho, definitely drugs I think...
15:08:12 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: There's a family name in my family that hasn't been used for, oh, ten generations or so.
15:09:14 <optbot> AnMaster: what's wrong with this one?, (define (fib n) (+ (fib (- n 1) (- n 2))))
15:09:37 <AnMaster> optbot, sorry don't know lisp really
15:09:38 <optbot> AnMaster: unsafe functionality in PSOX: Things like opening files
15:10:08 <AnMaster> optbot, for any PSOX discussion I suggest talking to Sgeo
15:10:08 <optbot> AnMaster: it was actually me not understanding git that made me take so long
15:11:23 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: (Kipple note) Since kipple buffers input, you will have to send all of the input and then an EOF command. See !help eof
15:13:11 <optbot> AnMaster: That's why we should use artificial intelligence to do it for us. :-)
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16:03:25 <GregorR> There were these groups of old guys proselytizing with their little green fairytale books on campus today. On the way from my bus stop to my building there were three, which is ridiculous because it's one block.
16:03:40 <GregorR> Anyway, I told the first one to fuck off, and neither of the other two bothered me.
16:17:53 <tusho> holy fuck! AnMaster told ais523 to rotate HIS logs, look at THIS:
16:17:54 <tusho> -rw-r----- 1 root adm 1.5G Sep 24 15:16 /var/log/apache2/access.log
16:18:06 <tusho> oh well, files are there to be there!
16:29:31 <tusho> what is the point of logrotation, it's just battling against the real problem
16:29:35 <tusho> inferior tools & filesystems
16:29:49 <tusho> the file represents the accesses to the webserver.
16:29:53 <tusho> it has never been a problem
16:29:57 <tusho> mostly, we just tail it to check stuff
16:30:01 <tusho> or occasionally grep it
16:30:07 <tusho> probably nowadays we'd have to tail|grep, but whatever
16:30:12 <tusho> i think it's fine, really
16:30:18 <tusho> but it did surprise me when seeing a file that big :D
16:30:31 <AnMaster> tusho, you want to keep logs forever?
16:30:42 <tusho> AnMaster: when I don't I'll cut the file
16:31:04 <AnMaster> tusho, another good reason for log rotation: compressing old log files
16:31:06 <tusho> but I am very fond of preserving ephemera
16:31:22 <tusho> AnMaster: that is true, but we have tons free
16:31:35 <tusho> well, not _tons_ but still
16:31:47 <tusho> actual log rotation is mostly silly to me
16:32:03 <tusho> if you're google... sure, do it
16:32:05 <tusho> you'll probably use up 10gb+ logs a day anyway
16:32:12 <tusho> but rutian is extremely low activity, i can archive logs manually no problem
16:32:46 * tusho tries to open the access log in vim
16:32:57 <tusho> heh, think its trying to load the whole thing.
16:33:29 <AnMaster> tusho, most text editors do that
16:33:45 <tusho> yes, it's a bit silly, really
16:33:49 <tusho> big files exist...
16:34:26 <tusho> it has only loaded up to august :P
16:34:44 <tusho> only reason these logs are so big = the Counter
16:34:50 <tusho> it makes 3 http requests every .5 seconds
16:34:54 <tusho> regardless of whether you click or not
16:35:02 <tusho> i didn't exactly design it for high traffic...
16:37:02 <fizzie> I rotate my irc-logs monthly so that if I know approximately when something was said, I can "grep foo freenode/#chan/2007-0[6-9]*" for it.
16:37:16 <fizzie> For active channels the grep-time is a bit big otherwise.
16:37:18 <tusho> fizzie: i think this is kind of a case for putting logs in a database
16:37:29 <tusho> date-based is just ONE of the ways you might wanna search logs...
16:37:36 <fizzie> Too much work for so little benefit, I think.
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16:45:13 <ais523> also trying to help tusho out of a huge amount of trouble e's got emself into in Agora
16:45:41 <tusho> nothing that can be done save if the ratification was retroactive and thus the message's claim of identity was never a lie
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18:25:33 * ais523 has said hi to the rest of tusho_ already
18:49:40 <CO2Games> what is this, a language based on commands inside pairs of h's?
18:50:04 <ais523> it's just an ad-hoc meme that lasts a few minutes
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20:28:59 <ais523> by the way, does anyone remember Mony doing anything here but saying hi and goodbye
20:29:09 <ais523> and occasionally joining in pointless memes like that h.*h thing above?
20:29:17 <Deewiant> 2008-09-24 16:30:08 ( Mony) optbot, are u sure ? ;)
20:29:18 <ais523> it's just a bit unusual
20:29:45 <ais523> I consider optbot another pointless meme, really
20:29:46 <Deewiant> 2008-09-03 20:52:23( Mony) does anyone got a good tutorial about the PE Format ?
20:30:01 <ais523> that is something substantive, at least
20:30:19 <Deewiant> that's all for this month, though :-P
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20:42:48 <ais523> anyway, as for that discussion we had a while ago about answering the question vs. asking wtf someone is doing:
20:43:05 <ais523> someone on comp.lang.c asked how to load Notepad from a CGI script, without the script waiting for it to finish
20:43:29 <ais523> I can't even think of an eso reason why that is even a remotely good idea...
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20:45:43 <tusho> i did something similar a while back
20:45:52 <tusho> based on flat files
20:46:06 <ais523> anyway, someone actually did give the correct answer (system("start notepad"))
20:46:13 <tusho> http://local-copy/edit?page=foo
20:46:18 <tusho> on your local copy
20:46:22 <tusho> that runs notepad on the cms file
20:46:26 <tusho> and redirects immediately back to the page
20:46:35 <tusho> so for you, you can click 'edit' on the site copy, and get a notepad window pop up
20:47:42 <tusho> except with mine it opened textmate
20:47:53 <tusho> which i actually like, mostly
20:47:57 <tusho> apart from haskell & lisp
20:48:01 <ais523> see, there's an eso reason for everything!
20:48:01 <tusho> which it sucks at, so i use emacs
20:48:08 <tusho> ais523: to be honest, though, i doubt that person had that in mind
20:48:13 <tusho> if you do something that clever, then you don't use notepad.
20:48:28 <tusho> perhaps for staff to edit it
20:48:35 <tusho> although staff would generally prefer wysiwyg, really...
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21:04:38 <oklofok> it opens fast and has an evenly-spaced font by default
21:04:51 <ais523> oklofok: no it doesn't open fast on large files
21:05:03 <AnMaster> ais523, it doesn't open at all on large files
21:05:04 <ais523> I know this the hard way
21:05:12 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, that's right, used not to
21:05:20 <ais523> I think they fixed that some time around XP, or possibly Vista, though
21:05:25 <AnMaster> ais523, hm? it suggests using word pad instead
21:05:34 <ais523> yes, that was with older versions
21:05:54 <oklofok> indeed it doesn't, wordpad will work for the rest of the cases, except you need to change the font, and it takes about half a second more to open
21:07:11 <ais523> IME Wordpad used courier new for text files by default
21:08:11 <ais523> why did they change that?
21:08:16 <tusho> but... vista deprecated arial
21:08:25 <ais523> tusho: actually XP deprecated arial, for Verdana
21:08:34 <tusho> ais523: verdana is awful, though :P
21:08:35 <ais523> and Vista deprecated Verdana for Calibri
21:08:47 <oklofok> all i know is when i open wordpad, it uses arial.
21:08:53 <ais523> AnMaster: it's alright if you compress it to 90% width
21:08:56 <tusho> verdana is just awful awful awful
21:09:04 <tusho> AnMaster: calibri is a new font
21:09:08 <tusho> along with cambria and consolas
21:09:10 <tusho> and others, i think
21:09:14 <tusho> made by MS for vista
21:09:17 <ais523> yes, there's 6 of them IIRC
21:09:21 <tusho> made by $type_foundry for MS for vista
21:09:25 <oklofok> all fonts are equal up to evenly-spacedness
21:09:35 <ais523> oklofok: even Wingdings?
21:09:41 <tusho> imagine microsoft making a font...
21:09:56 <fizzie> Calibri is Office 2007 default, too; can't remember which one came first, Office 2007 or Vista.
21:09:57 <ais523> which isn't all that bad actually for on-screen use
21:10:00 <tusho> ais523: WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME!!!
21:10:08 <oklofok> ais523: some fonts you need to learn to read, yes, i guess that's another difference
21:10:08 <ais523> terrible for printing ofc
21:10:17 <AnMaster> ais523, tusho: Ms Comic Sans ;D
21:10:20 <ais523> oklofok: Lucida Password can't be read at all
21:10:24 <tusho> microsoft did not make comic sans.
21:10:25 <ais523> it maps every printable character to *
21:10:35 <oklofok> okay, i guess i'm wrong, but only a little bit.
21:10:46 <tusho> AnMaster: vincent connare
21:10:51 <tusho> comic sans is not bad
21:10:57 <tusho> overwhelmingly mot uses
21:11:03 <tusho> for comics and similar... it's fine...
21:11:05 <tusho> that's what it's for.
21:11:11 <tusho> it was designed for microsoft bob's interface text, heh
21:11:15 <Deewiant> yeah, it's not bad, it's just useless ;-)
21:11:19 <tusho> (which was all in speech bubbles)
21:11:23 <tusho> Deewiant: if you don't make comics or similar, sure.
21:11:28 <tusho> i don't mean actual comics
21:11:31 <tusho> but comic-esque graphics
21:11:35 <tusho> e.g. speech bubbles
21:11:56 <tusho> i do support banning comics sans though
21:12:01 <tusho> because the human race has proved it can't get it right
21:12:56 <AnMaster> I like Bitstream Vera Sans Mono for anything fixed width, and Computer Modern for serif
21:13:16 <AnMaster> for non-fixed sans serif I don't really favourite
21:13:28 <tusho> "Guys! Let's combine MS Sans Serif and Verdana!"
21:13:34 <tusho> "*creates hideous monster*"
21:13:49 <ais523> luckily most of the fonts I have on here are ones tusho's never even heard of
21:14:03 <tusho> why, don't like my taste in fonts? :P
21:14:08 <ais523> although I have the Linux versions of Arial and such that Microsoft distributed before they changed their minds
21:14:18 <tusho> still legally distributable
21:14:43 * tusho considers overwriting crap fonts with good ones
21:15:01 <AnMaster> <ais523> luckily most of the fonts I have on here are ones tusho's never even heard of <-- like what ones?
21:15:19 <ais523> AnMaster: half of them aren't even for English
21:15:34 <AnMaster> ais523, oh you speak other languages?
21:15:43 <ais523> but Ubuntu supports other languages
21:15:52 <ais523> and the fonts to display all the languages it supports come by default
21:15:56 <fizzie> I've got the "msttcorefonts" package installed also, even though it's non-free in the Debian sense.
21:16:01 <AnMaster> ais523, can't you deselect installing them
21:16:02 <tusho> the default ubuntu fonts... aren't very impressive
21:16:08 <tusho> AnMaster: what if e wants to read another language page
21:16:11 <ais523> tusho: I like this one
21:16:13 <AnMaster> tusho, what do you think of Baskerville?
21:16:16 <ais523> but it's just called "Sans Serif"
21:16:21 <ais523> which is probably not the real name of the font
21:16:25 <tusho> ais523: it's bitstream
21:16:28 <AnMaster> ais523, that maps to some system defined one yes
21:16:32 <tusho> AnMaster: i'm not really a fan.
21:16:34 <AnMaster> and bitstream vera sans is nice
21:16:39 <tusho> the serifs are way too elaborate
21:16:44 <tusho> also the 'a' and 'd' are really ugly.
21:16:53 <tusho> it's better italicized
21:16:54 <AnMaster> tusho, I just picked a random installed font
21:17:02 <tusho> AnMaster: baskerville was designed in 1757
21:17:25 <AnMaster> tusho, really I hardly use anything but Bitstream Vera Sans, Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, Helvetica, Times, Computer Modern
21:17:47 <fizzie> "DejaVu Sans Mono" here for this IRC -- it's basically Bistream Vera Sans Mono with more characters done in the same style.
21:18:02 <tusho> i really dislike the bitstream fonts...to me they are hard to read and i seem to remember typographically they're not too hot either
21:18:05 <AnMaster> that is actually what i use for irc
21:18:07 <tusho> i really like helvetica
21:18:25 <ais523> isn't that the font that's impossible to read when printed because the letters blend into each other?
21:18:43 <tusho> ais523: what, helvetica?
21:18:49 <tusho> helvetica was designed in the 50s
21:18:54 <tusho> has a whole film about it
21:18:58 <ais523> incidentally, does anyone know if there are any commonly-used font formats that are Turing-complete?
21:19:01 <tusho> arial is a ripoff of helvetica
21:19:08 <tusho> because MS didn't want to pay the licensing fees
21:19:17 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica
21:19:20 <Deewiant> and then the ancestor was Grotesque, or what?
21:19:28 <tusho> Deewiant: akzidenz grotesk yeah
21:19:36 <AnMaster> I have helvetica as metafont or whatever but not true type
21:19:46 <AnMaster> it exists in TeX but not as system font huh
21:19:53 <ais523> tusho: yes, that's the font I was thinking of, it doesn't print well
21:20:00 <tusho> it was invented in print!!
21:20:15 <ais523> the letters are too close to each other
21:20:21 <AnMaster> yes I got helvetica, as bitmapped
21:20:22 <tusho> that is not a property of the typeface
21:20:31 <tusho> that is an indication that someone used a too low leading
21:21:03 <tusho> ais523: you probably see helvetica tons every day, btw
21:21:10 <AnMaster> tusho, you are a font geek you know ;P
21:21:20 <ais523> AnMaster: not exactly, tusho only likes Mac fonts
21:21:29 <tusho> that...makes no sense
21:21:36 <tusho> all the fonts i like most were invented for print
21:21:53 <tusho> you're just saying that because I like lucida grande and dislike bitstream...
21:22:05 <tusho> (fyi, helvetica neue isn't bundled with anything but os x but it was invented independently)
21:22:05 <AnMaster> tusho, which are the ones bundled with mac.... coincidence? I think not
21:22:14 <tusho> that makes no fucking sense
21:22:22 <tusho> i like the typefaces because _i like the typefaces_
21:22:39 <AnMaster> tusho, no if apple had selected bitstream vera you would like it
21:22:44 <tusho> no i wouldn't have
21:22:51 <tusho> AnMaster: [citation fucking needed]
21:22:56 <tusho> you're just saying it without base at all
21:23:01 <ais523> arguably it's the other way round, maybe Apple only select fonts they like the look of
21:23:05 <ais523> and tusho has similar aesthetics
21:23:10 <AnMaster> tusho, it is based on your personality
21:23:33 <fizzie> Have to admit I use Lucida Console at 8pt for IRC on the iBook.
21:23:48 <tusho> AnMaster: don't ever complain when i help other people and don't help you, why the hell should i help someone who only ever makes baseless accusations based on a completely false stereotype of me.
21:23:59 <AnMaster> I do have some lucida here iirc
21:24:21 <tusho> AnMaster: you only say that because you like free things!
21:24:30 <tusho> if it was licensed under a free license, you'd love lucida!
21:24:38 <AnMaster> tusho, yes and I don't deny it, though I really don't like lucida
21:24:41 <tusho> AnMaster: based on your personality.
21:24:47 <AnMaster> I do like arial better than lucida
21:25:02 <ais523> I don't really care about fonts all that much, so I generally use the free ones for practical reasons
21:25:46 <tusho> i care about baseless, offensive accusations without base made to me by AnMaster while he complains whenever i do the same.
21:25:47 <AnMaster> Or Latin Modern to get vector based fonts instead of pre-rendered bitmapped
21:26:10 <AnMaster> tusho, it is fine when you admit it
21:26:23 <AnMaster> the issue is that you try to deny it
21:26:27 <tusho> AnMaster: why the hell should i admit something that isn't true?
21:27:20 * ais523 still fails to understand why AnMaster and tusho seem to hate each other so much
21:27:25 <AnMaster> tusho, you could have laughed it off and it would never had got to this point
21:27:25 <tusho> jesus christ, AnMaster is such a fucking hypocrite. can't say anything without him accusing me of apple fanboyism or whatever. someone call me when he's stopped talking and hiding everything under the guise of "but it was a joke! nevr mind taht it had no properties of a joke and wasn't funny, it was because i said so!". bye.
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21:27:45 <AnMaster> oh well I know he is log reading
21:28:24 <AnMaster> ais523, and yes I fail to understand why tusho hates me so much as well
21:28:43 <AnMaster> I have no problems with him when he isn't angry
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21:48:10 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | oh wow.
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22:32:12 <optbot> KingOfKarlsruhe: where is the keyboard-plug converter
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23:37:55 <oc2k1> Would it be possible to build an esoteric computer with only a for logic IC and some cache SRams (i.E. 64k x8) ?
23:40:15 <oc2k1> A tape would be possible with a 16 bit updown counter and one SRam, but loading a program could be a small problem...