00:48:58 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:49:03 -!- moozilla has joined. 01:01:20 -!- Corun_ has joined. 01:06:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:08:01 -!- Corun has quit (Connection timed out). 01:22:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 01:28:50 -!- sebbu2 has quit ("@+"). 01:35:54 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:52:20 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 03:44:09 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 03:44:59 BITCHES DONT KNOW BOUT MY MINIMALIST PROGRAM 03:50:21 Is that where you only have sex with asians HAW HAW HAW 03:50:38 (Stereotypes rül) 03:51:32 wh..what? 03:52:31 Read without context :P 04:00:19 -!- Corun_ has quit ("zooom"). 04:01:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Pepper 04:01:27 OKLOPOL DO YOU LIKE THIS 04:01:59 You rarely see something /flavored/ with ammonia salt:P 04:06:55 rarely, except in finland 04:07:11 where they apparently put ammonium chloride on EVERYTHING 04:45:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGP_word_list 04:47:28 lol 04:47:40 a way of speaking PGP over the phone? XD 04:50:14 no, a way of communicating binary data over noisy channels 04:50:36 well.. yes, but apparently specifically designed for PGPed stuff. :P 04:55:17 it's just interesting how they picked it 05:04:39 It would be especially handy for, say, PGP key signatures. 05:05:49 no way! 05:07:21 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | they are there because java wants me to be clean.. 05:47:07 psygnisfive: no i don't especially like that 05:47:19 :p 05:47:29 then again i don't like candy at al 05:47:30 *all 05:49:43 but i especially don't like ammonium chloride on candy; i *do* like it as raw powder though. 05:50:22 lmfao 05:50:31 i can just see you snorting likes of salmiakki 05:50:34 lines* 05:55:11 i did that as a kid yes 05:55:34 (i also smoked tea) 05:55:43 (god i was bad, sooo bad) 05:56:18 Smoked .... tea .... 05:56:47 man 05:56:50 tea will get you fucked UP 05:58:35 nah you don't get high from it 05:58:48 just tastes nice 05:59:12 Smoked .... tea .... 06:04:07 :P 06:06:12 lapsang suochong! 06:06:16 shit is so cash 06:10:14 -!- metazilla has joined. 06:10:23 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:10:50 -!- moozilla has joined. 06:10:50 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:10:56 -!- moozilla has changed nick to metazilla. 06:13:08 i can speak some mandarin. :O 06:14:28 我会说一点儿中文：D 06:18:41 yes, i agree, that is some fine ice cream 06:29:15 我可以使用翻译工具 06:30:10 why thank you, i think this dress looks pretty too. 06:31:41 whoa whoa i can barely read what i wrote there, buddy 06:31:51 wo ke .. .. .. .. .. gong .. 06:31:56 thats all i know of what you wrote :p 06:32:09 tones randomly left out for ease of typing 06:32:39 fizzie, ni hui shuo zhongwen ma? 06:32:46 is mandarin trendy now? everyone seems to know spike it 06:33:02 mandarin is the language of the future, havent you ever seen Firefly? 06:34:20 What I wrote comes courtesy of Google Translate, I have no idea how someone who actually speaks the language would read it. 06:34:48 i haven't seen firefly 06:35:02 ...i've seen *a* firefly 06:35:13 oklopol: What language did it speak to you? 06:35:13 surfthechannel.com 06:35:14 watch firefly 06:35:15 its awesom 06:37:41 i have an exam in 23 minutes 06:37:49 so i have to study! 06:38:00 *22 06:38:21 our lecturer is such a funny dude 06:38:27 i mean, in one of his notes 06:38:36 there's this brilliant caption 06:38:42 about sockets (but not about sugar) 06:38:57 i lolled like 5 minutes 06:39:08 i wonder if it makes any sense. 06:39:39 The best picture caption I've seen was in a mathematics journal I saw on the "new journal issues" table of our library. There was a picture of some graph, and underneath it: "Fig. 1: A fascinating picture." 06:39:59 :P 06:40:37 After that I've had a habit of using "A fascinating picture." as a placeholder text for image captions when writing LaTeX or such. 06:40:47 heh 06:41:02 hmm, i should prolly consider thinking about leaving 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:27:43 The Sims: The Movie. 08:27:45 NO. 09:19:36 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 10:31:30 o 10:31:35 pikhq: i'd watch that 10:31:36 oko 10:35:13 -!- oklopol has changed nick to oklon. 10:35:16 okoko 10:35:25 okokoko 10:35:30 also, I like the name oklon 10:35:43 it's kinda cute shurr. 10:35:51 heh 10:35:56 ais523, hi! 10:36:03 yeah hi ais523! 10:36:14 and hi AnMaster! 10:36:18 heh 10:36:23 oh and hi AnMaster! 10:36:30 hullo oklon! 10:36:51 (spelling actually intentional) 10:37:21 (yeah that i know it was) 10:39:26 ais523, which of these pics would you say look best? http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Image:GIMP_CGI_3_channel_mix.png http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Image:GIMP_CGI_3_blend.png 10:40:04 the blend one, but I like them both 10:40:16 ais523, what about this one: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Image:GIMP_CGI_4.png 10:40:45 what are these? 10:40:46 I like that one but not as much as the others 10:41:20 oklon, images generated in a few minutes with gimp's flame plugin as examples for the article http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/GIMP_Fractal_Backgrounds 10:41:32 most of those minutes were spent by gimp calculating 10:41:44 those are coooool 10:42:02 thanks (I generated those three) 10:42:33 http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Image:GIMP_CGI_3_base.png <-- the blend one before colourising it 10:42:42 might be useful to someone 10:42:53 ...useful? 10:43:06 well if you want a green version of it 10:43:20 that looks like a nice setting for a game 10:43:22 hm I should make some fractal "which one do you like best" 10:43:29 oklon, eh? 10:43:37 or did you mean the same as me? 10:43:42 well i wanna play it even though it's a picture. 10:44:17 oklon, it takes several minutes to generate one of those 10:44:23 gimp processing 10:44:49 err yeah for gimp, but that's just threads that wimble around 10:45:03 eh? 10:45:05 wimble? 10:45:26 i want like a strategy game where you're like a virus that infects things, with those graphics 10:45:58 oklon, something like a reverse Darwinia? 10:46:03 esoteric games have been stealing my interest quite a lot these days 10:46:28 AnMaster: I don't think wimble is a real word, but I sort of know what oklon means anyway 10:46:38 Definitions of wimble on the Web: 10:46:38 * A boring tool, such as a gimlet or auger. 10:46:38 www.chaddsfordhistory.org/history/glossary.htm 10:46:43 darwinia? isn't that just a 2d strategy game with no interesting aspects 10:46:50 oklon, 3D one but yeah 10:46:52 ok, I didn't know that meaning 10:46:56 3d in graphics, but not movement. 10:47:02 oklon, true 10:47:03 well 10:47:16 ais523, what did oklon mean then? 10:47:41 Definitions of gimlet on the Web: 10:47:41 * A cocktail composed of sugar syrup, lime juice, vodka (or gin) and sometimes soda water. 10:47:42 heh 10:47:42 I interpreted it as meaning wandering around in a vague and non-purposeful way 10:47:59 although that probably isn't exactly what oklon meant by it, I hope it's close 10:48:03 darwinia's *story* may have to do with viruses, but it's just a strategy game 10:48:10 oklon, ok 10:48:17 ais523: yeah it's exactly what i mean 10:48:19 oklon, I never played it, due to being closed source 10:48:23 wimbling. 10:48:35 AnMaster: me neither, but a friend of mine did 10:48:54 or actually, I played a demo 10:49:00 darwinia is a work of art 10:49:09 kind of crappy IMO 10:49:17 :-O 10:49:18 * AnMaster agrees with oklon there 10:49:32 Deewiant, nice idea, poor implementation 10:49:32 Deewiant: what's great about it? 10:49:49 isn't it just move-soldiers-around 10:50:06 more or less iirc 10:50:18 hmm, actually there may have been something about saving some neutral thingies? 10:50:23 like I said it's a work of art; I find it captures the retro feel of cannon fodder really well 10:50:45 if you look at just the gameplay aspects it's not that special, true. 10:51:00 i only look at gameplay aspects 10:51:09 * AnMaster agrees with oklon there 10:51:13 story and graphics are for kids and noobs 10:51:15 :o 10:51:22 bah :-P 10:51:44 you need all four (+ sound) to have a complete game 10:51:58 Deewiant, really? What about nethack? 10:51:59 no sound 10:52:00 if you're going to leave something out or do it poorly it has to be balanced out 10:52:02 complete game 10:52:14 text adventures have no graphics or sound 10:52:23 Deewiant, nethack have graphics 10:52:24 they make up for it with descriptions which cause your imagination to fill in the gaps 10:52:28 ASCII graphics 10:52:42 text adventures are all about story, usually, they have their puzzles, which may work as minigames, but overall they usually suck. 10:53:00 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 10:53:09 bah, no point in talking to you guys :-P 10:53:21 and story is even less interesting than graphics, i actually *prefer* games without a story, whereas graphics i may occasionally find nice. 10:53:30 hey 10:53:33 I want story 10:53:34 too 10:53:36 AnMaster: actually NetHack does have sound, I just don't think it's supported on any platforms which still exist 10:53:39 oklon, RPGs 10:53:41 Deewiant: i'm pretty sure it's always pointless to talk to me :P 10:53:44 ais523, heh!?! 10:53:50 if you play a tune on an in-game instrument on the Amiga, you get the same tune out of its speakers 10:53:50 AnMaster: rpg's are utterly uninteresting 10:53:55 oklon, I disagree! 10:54:18 oklon: NetHack doesn't have a story, it's all about gameplay because it doesn't really have graphics either 10:54:24 and personally I play games for the gameplay 10:54:32 it isn't a text adventure, it's ASCII art graphics... 10:54:34 ais523: well true, i like that kind of... umm... "extracted" rpg's 10:55:01 oklon: I'm writing a text adventure which is nothing but subgames, and they're all eso-programming related 10:55:02 where it's so simplified and purified it really doesn't have anything to do with the real world anymore 10:55:05 although I haven't got very far 10:55:56 yeah i do like games that are basically just stringing-together's of subgames 10:56:32 also i occasionally like stories that are completely separate from the gameplay, for instance in world of goo i enjoyed the story 10:56:54 I remember a while back ehird made it into a webapp and ehird and someone else (was it AnMaster?) had a go at the 3 puzzles I've created so far 10:56:55 ais523: i know that game 10:56:58 yes 10:57:16 didn't do the puzzles, but i heard the spoilers, which is essentially the same! ;) 10:57:27 can you still remember the spoilers? 10:57:34 if not, you may still enjoy the puzzles 10:57:50 incidentally, I submitted one as a puzzle in Agora, and got lots of interesting answers, including someone who brute-forced the best solution 10:57:52 hm? 10:57:55 none of us in #esoteric found it 10:58:02 ais523, what? 10:58:06 i don't forget things that are of eternal relevance, as puzzle solutions always are 10:58:09 AnMaster: maybe you didn't see it 10:58:23 also nethack isn't an rpg 10:58:26 it is a rougelike 10:58:35 *roguelike 10:58:38 well, actually i didn't hear the solution of the staircase thing. 10:58:44 yeah that 10:58:47 ais523, link then? 10:59:01 and i guess that was the interesting one 10:59:16 AnMaster: probably no longer online 10:59:38 hmm you had brainfuck, that step thing the name of which i can't remember, and what was the last one? 10:59:40 ais523, describe them then? 10:59:53 anyway you could have like a piano in one room and have a fugue puzzle 11:00:00 there was a Brainfuck puzzle, where you entered brainfuck puzzles 11:00:02 *programs 11:00:11 and you had to deduce from the reaction of the things in the room what you had to write 11:00:17 a SMETANA puzzle which is the step thing 11:00:26 where I actually made the steps of the program into a staircase 11:00:38 and you could walk up and down it swapping the steps around 11:00:53 and an INTERCAL puzzle which was basically a 2D version of INTERCAL where you were the IP and could change direction at will 11:01:00 and had to get to the other end of the program 11:01:15 most of my esoprogram puzzles have the player as a free-willed IP 11:01:30 but that's effected by gotos and such, so you can't just walk to the other end of the room 11:01:36 (and COME FROMs in the case of INTERCAL) 11:02:00 fun 11:02:07 heh 11:02:14 ais523, you got to find the link :D 11:02:25 as I said, I don't think it's online at the moment 11:02:30 I still have the program as an offline program though 11:02:37 and I can send you source which you can compile and have a go at 11:02:44 ais523, that violates "uris are fixed" that w3c likes ;) 11:02:48 ais523, thanks 11:02:54 I'll pastebin it 11:03:07 ais523, C? 11:03:10 yes 11:03:21 would paste.eso-std.org be OK, as you have to save the file to compile it anyway? 11:03:26 or shall I use a different one? 11:03:34 paste.eso-std.org ok 11:03:40 hmm 11:03:47 muriel might make an interesting puzzle of some sort 11:03:58 most esolangs do, that's the charm of the game 11:04:04 well yeah 11:04:43 AnMaster: http://paste.eso-std.org/h 11:04:49 and anyone else interested fwiw 11:05:13 ais523, what is it called? 11:05:19 esogame, so far 11:05:23 although it could do with a better name 11:05:37 probably I'm going to restructure the game to some extent too, it sort-of starts in the middle atm 11:05:49 and none of the puzzles connect, you have to quit once you solve them 11:06:03 and the INTERCAL one doesn't even react when you've solved it because I haven't created a room beyond there 11:06:16 :P 11:07:21 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | vhdl is reactive by the nature of this channel. 11:07:26 hmm, i should probably check out the c++ spec for a good structure for delicious funge's spec 11:07:40 delicious funge? 11:08:22 HUH 11:08:47 AnMaster: why the capital huh? 11:08:47 ais523, don't have time to figure out that game atm 11:08:54 ah, ok 11:08:57 ais523, because caps lock was on 11:08:58 what's confusing about it though? 11:09:01 -!- metazilla has joined. 11:09:03 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:09:06 ais523, intercal room 11:09:07 for one 11:09:16 ah, probably you should try one of the others 11:09:17 Delicious Funge is an attempt at a modern Funge variant with an infinite-dimensional fungespace on reals, (optional) strong, static typing, variables, scopes, lambdas, fully fledged OOP using message passing with single and multiple inheritance, metaclasses, generalized Funge stacks, language-level support for threads, networking and GUI, flexible debugging tools, just-in-time compiling, extendable syntax, modules, namespaces, dynami 11:09:24 ais523, brainfuck one too 11:09:40 the smetana one's the easiest one to 'get' what you have to do 11:09:44 even if you don't know SMETANA 11:10:12 ais523, I dislike text adventures 11:10:19 too hard to remember or get a pic of where you are 11:10:26 hmm, the c++ spec is not freeee? 11:10:28 that's why they have look commands 11:10:30 I prefer isomeric, or at least look down 11:10:35 ais523, even so 11:10:46 oklon: I'm pretty sure it is, I've come across free versions before, although I don't know if they're the official one or a draft 11:10:52 It's very much not free. 11:10:55 But the drafts are free. 11:10:58 ISO will definitely sell you the official one for money, that doesn't mean you can't necessarily get a free one 11:10:59 Delicious Funge is an attempt at a modern Funge variant with an infinite-dimensional fungespace on reals, (optional) strong, static typing, variables, scopes, lambdas, fully fledged OOP using message passing with single and multiple inheritance, metaclasses, generalized Funge stacks, language-level support for threads, networking and GUI, flexible debugging tools, just-in-time compiling, exten 11:10:59 dable syntax, modules, namespaces, dynam 11:11:00 heheh 11:11:01 nice 11:11:02 ! 11:11:08 got a link to it? 11:11:10 ah, and it's like C, all the versions except the official one are free, then 11:11:18 So if you just want to look at the format, see http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1905.pdf or something. 11:11:33 There are later drafts too, probably. 11:11:47 AnMaster: that's all i have sofar, i'm basically just listing features atm, and figuring out how to integrate them with funge. 11:11:56 oklon, ah 11:12:04 oklon, "dyman what" 11:12:08 it was cut off there 11:12:28 (get a clients that splits, instead of cutting off 11:12:34 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p513415413.txt 11:12:37 btw, someone in another channel just claimed that "poke" was Finnish for "bouncer", can anyone here who knows Finnish confirm/deny? 11:13:08 the kinda bouncer that kicks people off party doors 11:13:16 oklon, what about privilege levels? 11:13:24 like ring 0 and ring 3 threads 11:13:32 oklon, there is even an existing example 11:13:33 AnMaster: right a whole 100 page chapter about security! 11:13:36 let me find the link 11:14:07 oklon, http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/funge/#Fungus 11:14:11 it have security 11:14:11 ring 0 and ring 3 threads? err like, usermode and kernel mode and shit? 11:14:16 oklon, yes 11:14:42 ais523, I think you will enjoy that link too 11:15:15 i don't think i'll have that. too low-level for me :\ 11:15:21 oklon, oh ok 11:15:23 :( 11:15:26 :( 11:15:40 the language isn't exactly designed for kernel development :P 11:15:46 oklon, damn :P 11:15:46 It is hoped that this will give rise to further nightmares, possibly involving Cthulhu in a bikini teaching INTERCAL to first-year law students. 11:15:53 ais523, :D 11:16:14 although i guess if befunge has time travel, i can't beat it no matter how many ridiculous features i add. 11:16:18 ais523, the ring stuff is in the implementation specific stuff iirc 11:16:31 oklon: not very well, it's like continuations that affect I/O 11:17:08 yes 11:17:17 i'm just gonna have regular continuations. 11:17:54 hm allocating an unique block from funge space of a given size 11:18:00 that could be an useful fingerprint 11:18:01 actually 11:18:26 the worrying thing about Fungus is that I might implement it in hardware as a hack at some point, for fun 11:18:29 terribly hard to implement 11:18:31 -!- moozilla has joined. 11:18:32 fizzie: thanks. really any big language spec would do, i might as well take guidance from that. 11:18:55 I have access to all the stuff I need as an electronic engineering student 11:19:05 ais523, read http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/funge/fungus.html too then, the spec had some inconsistencies iirc 11:19:09 even the reprogrammable silicon chip things that would be needed to build it at the end 11:19:12 and yes, I will 11:20:24 So if you just want to look at the format, see http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2005/n1905.pdf or something. <-- C89? 11:20:31 oh no 11:20:32 C++ 11:20:43 the C++ spec has a saner numbering scheme 11:20:50 ais523, oh how so? 11:21:07 I still don't understand the wisdom of ISO and ANSI publishing standards for C which are identical except in the page numbers and section numbers 11:21:15 making it very hard to reference an individual part of the standard 11:21:26 ais523, how exactly do they differ? 11:21:28 whereas C++ gives text labels to the sections as well as page numbers 11:21:38 AnMaster: section 4 in one of them is section 7 in the other, IIRC 11:21:40 I only have ISO 99:TR3 one 11:21:54 I think they differ in what's a section and what's a subsection 11:22:02 heh 11:22:35 WG14/N1256 Committee Draft — Septermber 7, 2007 ISO/IEC 9899:TC3 11:22:41 that is the copy I have 11:23:22 I think the regulars on c.l.c who cite chapter & verse a lot have a C standard section numbering conversion table somewhere 11:23:26 although I never managed to prove that 11:23:26 is ".delicious" a good file suffix? :D 11:23:30 oklon: yes 11:23:33 or maybe .deli 11:23:35 bbiab 11:23:36 which sounds good too 11:23:41 ah 11:23:46 deli is nice. 11:23:55 because it means delicious if i'm not mistaken. 11:24:09 actually, normally it means delicatessen 11:24:11 i may be mistaken, but no need to correct me, because that would only complicate things. 11:24:23 whoops, sent that off slightly too quickly... 11:24:29 well yeah sure, but i mean in the italolatispanish language 11:24:32 ah, ok 11:24:54 but i don't actually *know* that :P 11:26:26 ugh, I never considered the problems of endianess in multi-dimensional languages before 11:26:45 hmm, yeah i guess i should use unicode 11:27:21 -!- metazilla has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:28:15 also, I like the idea of a register designed to be a source of zeros but is writable anyway so you can redefine 0 11:28:25 very INTERCALlish /and/ Smalltalky 11:29:03 mips has a writable zero register, but the value doesn't change 11:29:20 well 11:29:26 i guess it's not exactly writable then. 11:29:37 hmm, god i'm bad at sounding official. 11:30:09 i should probably start writing the middle of the spec first, in a random fashion, and fix the chaos later. 11:32:22 -!- metazilla has joined. 11:32:30 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:41:43 memory allocation from the delicious fungespace is actually considerably easier than in the usual fungespace, considering it has infinite dimensions, and you can just allocate an unused dimension for that... 11:42:17 well, you can't guarantee it will always be unused, but, well, it's bad practice to use dimensions without allocating them first anyway 11:43:37 also the coordinate system is on reals, so you can just allocate (x to x+e, y to y+e) to be a square containing any amount of objects you wanna keep safe. 11:45:03 actually, a fungeoid with real coordinates is one of the first things I've heard that gave me that eso feel 11:45:11 of some new and exciting eso idea coming up 11:45:18 with respect to that language 11:45:26 rationals, or arbitrary reals? 11:45:33 arbitrary reals. 11:45:39 how do you specify irrational reals? 11:45:47 or indeed, process the results? 11:45:55 you can't do that in general, there is no declarativity. 11:45:57 at least atm 11:46:14 i may add "find largest number in set" if you want irrationals... :P 11:46:19 I mean, how do you set the delta to (pi, e, 0, 0....)? 11:46:49 pi and e may exist as constants 11:47:23 but i'm not saying you can actually create arbitrary reals, it's just the number system must hold any number without ever losing precision. 11:47:43 restricting it to rationals would at least make it implementable 11:47:51 but that rather defeats the point, probably 11:48:14 well you can only make the kind of reals the stdlib lets you. 11:48:37 and that's sin/cos and friends, square root, and e 11:48:41 probably. 11:49:07 just better not check equality with = if you don't want to loop infinitely. 11:49:46 i mean, it's not actually hard to store these numbers and do calculations, the only hard thing is equality, and if that can't be determined, ip reflects. 11:51:32 well 11:51:48 actually reflection is probably not allowed. 11:52:02 why not? 11:52:07 back 11:52:30 well i don't want implementations to just store everything but rationals as black holes. 11:52:49 a black hole is a number you can't do anything with anymore, because it's too complex to compare it with other things. 11:53:30 you can still add stuff to it, and do other operations, but those are simply swallowed, because there is no need to get anything sensible out of it anymore. 11:54:05 oh my 11:54:14 your fungoid would need symbolic numbers 11:54:18 you need a bloody CAS 11:54:35 at least if e square root and so on should be exact 11:54:41 oklon: couldn't you approximate it to n decimal places? 11:54:44 instead of, say, long double 11:54:49 anyway you can restrict the fungespace if you wish, because, well, there will be static typing anyway, so naturally there will be optimized 2^n type of numbers. 11:54:53 that works even if you don't know the exact value 11:55:08