00:01:03 yyyy 00:02:42 http://pastie.org/318300 00:02:44 delicious! 00:02:50 although i need a result_of in the final one, whatever 00:02:56 wait 00:03:03 that needs to be an assert, for the result_of, doesn't it? 00:03:07 or maybe a side-effect 00:03:29 http://pastie.org/318301 00:03:29 tada 00:06:23 o 00:07:24 +ul (o )(~(o)~*:S~:^):^ 00:07:25 oo ooo oooo ooooo oooooo ooooooo oooooooo ooooooooo oooooooooo ooooooooooo oooooooooooo ooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooo ...too much output! 00:11:38 o 00:12:16 +ul (o )(~(ok)~*:S~:^):^ 00:12:17 oko okoko okokoko okokokoko okokokokoko okokokokokoko okokokokokokoko okokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko ...too much output! 00:12:34 thutubot is so lagged 00:12:40 yuog fol 00:12:43 sleapp -> 00:13:20 sweat drooms 00:15:13 what was that? 00:16:12 where is help tor thutubot ? 00:16:23 nowhere. 00:16:30 dang 00:16:34 only one command 00:16:35 +ul 00:16:37 it runs underload 00:16:40 its written in thutu 00:16:42 uhm 00:16:43 (look it up on the wiki) 00:18:44 Hmm. 00:18:48 Maybe I should write my own prolog for this. 00:18:59 fizzie: oerjan: Probably the best, isn't it, considering the sandboxing I'd have to do otherwise 00:21:44 funny 00:28:16 fungot's got a ^help, though. 00:28:17 fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ fnord ( user fnord) 13:12, 15 march 2007 ( utc) 00:28:18 ^help 00:28:18 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 00:34:06 what langs does it support? 00:34:24 a 00:34:34 Brainfuck and Underload; that's the bf/ul there. 00:34:44 i remember that there was another bot 00:35:08 There's also an undocumented ^code command that runs non-sandboxed Befunge, but that's limited to me only since it's so unsafe. 00:35:10 that supported even my poor SADOL 00:35:30 fungot's written in Funge-98, in case that wasn't mentioned yet. 00:35:31 fizzie: if there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale. 00:35:56 It's also very obsessed about fair use when it's using this current babble-database. 00:35:59 ^style 00:35:59 Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft pa speeches ss wp* 00:36:25 Egobot, how we miss thee 00:37:07 ^style discworld 00:37:07 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 00:37:17 [2008-04-26 01:15:37] < EgoBot> 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 00:37:22 The list was indeed impressive. 00:37:24 what now? 00:37:38 Now you can talk to fungot, and it'll respond with mangled Discworld stuff. 00:37:39 fizzie: " i think someone trod on my hat." 00:37:56 fungot: You don't have a hat. 00:37:56 fizzie: ' interesting point," said rincewind. ' i'm missing meals here, you see? the universe doesn't stop even for my clock,' said bucket. 00:38:08 ho wrude! 00:38:16 wa 00:38:19 trippy, i can't tell if that was a real quote or not 00:38:39 fungot: Where is my egg? 00:38:40 nooga: it was her mouth. it looked like a witch dancing through raindrops, never getting wet. wait until morning.' the valkyrie turned in the saddle. 00:38:59 This one might not be one of the best ones. 00:39:06 ;p 00:39:28 ^style lovecraft 00:39:28 Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) 00:40:06 "agora" is Agora rules; "alice" is Lewis Carroll's books; "darwin" is Darwin's writings with messed-up tokenization; "discworld" you've seen; "europarl" is European Parliament speeches 1996-2006; "ff7" is Final Fantasy VII script; "fisher" is transcribed telephone conversations; ... 00:40:20 fungot: I can see something over there. 00:40:21 nooga: serve as the eyes of the falling dreamer. there were 00:40:28 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 00:41:09 "ic" is the INTERCAL manual; "irc" is #esoteric + #scheme IRC logs (probably the most sensiblest one); "lovecraft" is this one; "pa" is Penny Arcade comics; "speeches" is just some speeches from Project Gutenberg; "ss" is Shakespeare; "wp" is 1/256th of Wikipedia talk pages. 00:43:05 The "darwin" one is only funny because it's filled with :)-smileys, thanks to a bug. (Fungot's hardcoded punctuation stuff -- the very visible triangle in http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt -- doesn't match with what was used when building the data files.) 00:43:05 fizzie: at some of the things. in the second place, his organic processes shewed a certain queerness of proportion which fnord utterly to shame the emotional fnord and fnord. 00:43:49 fungot: Stop talking about "organic processes" like you don't have those. Wait, I guess you don't, at that. 00:43:50 fizzie: as a mining engineer of considerable prominence. enclosed were some very curious mediaeval information. he seemed, in fine, to have picked up a sight o' fnord in the 00:48:20 I think it's sleep-time; almost 03 am, finally got MATLAB to plot those figures the way I wanted them so it's a good point to sleep. Night. 00:49:19 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 00:51:17 O_o 00:51:21 coded it by hand? 00:53:08 -!- Asztal has joined. 01:02:01 nooga: yes 01:02:03 its written in befunge 01:02:06 oh 01:02:07 you mean 01:02:08 fizzie 01:02:10 's matlab 01:02:16 bye for today 01:02:28 bye 01:03:27 i'm thinking about an algorithm that will place graph nodes on a square lattice so that the summary length of edges would be the smallest 01:04:27 hah 01:04:35 'night 01:49:46 -!- Slereah has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Hilarious topic. 02:49:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:02:24 -!- Asztal_ has joined. 04:19:14 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:24:14 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:34:48 -!- Corun has joined. 04:45:16 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:50:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:06:59 -!- Asztal_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]"). 05:52:46 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 06:15:02 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:16:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:26:54 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:55:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:58:58 -!- Corun has joined. 06:59:10 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 06:59:50 -!- Corun has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:57:16 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 08:59:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:01:05 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:10:27 AnMaster: online? 09:18:34 o 09:19:06 oko 09:19:56 i just woke up, and now i have to break my holy never-go-out-again principle already :< 09:20:18 life is not very fair 09:20:56 why do you have to do out? school? 09:21:18 yes, i need to go show em i've done my c++. 09:21:50 also i need to go take the dog out. 09:23:13 she's getting a bit frustrated, i think, trying to eat my fingers as i type. 09:25:51 also i probably need to go to the shop, all i have here is noodles, and that's really all i've eaten all week 09:26:05 of course that's only two days, but i ate them last week too 09:26:11 go outside, it's a good day for it over in the UK 09:26:30 therefore by unsafe and overconfident extrapolation I assume it is where you live too 09:26:33 well i wouldn't know, the curtains are closed 09:27:30 last night it was so windy i couldn't ride my bike at all, had to walk home backwards, also rainy but i don't mind that. if you didn't see my complaints yesterday 09:28:11 by extrapolation on that, it's not that nice a day outside. 09:28:13 "had to walk home backwards"? 09:28:40 yes, i had my guitar on my back, so the wind couldn't get to my head. 09:29:20 I like to have natural light even when I'm indoors programming, it saves on electricity 09:29:29 and I like to look out of the windows from time to time too 09:30:00 walking backwards with a bicycle is pretty hard btw. somehow my bike balancing reflexes just don't cover that. 09:30:16 probably because they're backwards, but anyway. 09:31:08 i don't like natural light usually. i like the occasional day out in the summer, but usually i like sitting in the dark 09:31:23 or with a small light on 09:31:33 * oklopol is powergeek 09:32:09 also the topic is hilarious! 09:32:54 seems i'm too tired to leave my computer. 09:33:09 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:33:29 -!- Corun_ has joined. 09:33:44 hi Corun_ 09:34:06 Meep. 09:35:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("So, how much do you love noodles?"). 09:35:50 o 09:35:53 -!- Corun_ has changed nick to Corun. 09:37:03 oklopol: lawl 09:38:07 GreaseMonkey: pretty appropriate quit msg by the way, that must have been deliberate... 09:38:22 ;] 09:40:28 i love noodles, but my stomach can't stomach it if i don't eat anything else with them. 09:41:07 i usually eat in KFC or gas stations (those awful hot-dogs) + cola :D 09:41:24 are you a trucker? 09:41:29 or in work - pizza or chinese shit 09:41:43 i wish i had the money only to eat fast food 09:41:57 slow food is simply inferior. 09:42:11 nope, i'm proud owner of 30 years old Mercedes-Benz 09:42:17 fast food as in junk food, or as in preprepared meals you get in a shop? 09:42:26 and i just sit in that car and drive around for fun 09:42:37 ais523: preferably junk food 09:42:40 I mostly eat preprepared sandwitches from the various canteens here 09:42:50 but preprepared meals are often good too 09:42:54 it's all about the speed 09:43:12 i'm just too lazy to prepare something from scratch 09:43:38 for most my senses, i have a limit for how good stimuli can get, for food the limit is pretty low, most things taste equally unbelievably awesome. 09:44:54 yesterday i ate a sandwich from subway and smoked a pack of cigs ;] 09:44:59 that must be healthy 09:45:34 hmm... I avoid all sorts of unhealthy things just because I don't like them 09:45:50 I don't smoke, I haven't drunk alcohol for about 4 years or drunk caffeine for about 3 09:45:57 and eat lots of vegetables and salads 09:46:03 just due to my preferences about things I like 09:46:03 good for you 09:47:29 i smoke, eat junk and drive my car around, killing atmosphere 09:47:30 ;] 09:49:10 nooga: have you ever heard of hypermiling? 09:49:17 what? 09:49:24 apparently not 09:49:28 it's catching on quite a lit 09:49:31 *lot 09:49:40 ah 09:49:42 basically it's a competition to see how fuel-efficiently you can drive a car 09:49:51 ah yes 09:50:00 your score is the ratio of how fuel-efficient it is when you drive it to how fuel-efficient it is in the spec 09:50:14 morning 09:50:27 and yes I'm online, a bit preoccupied 09:50:49 well 09:51:58 my car is 30 years old, has enormous (as for european car) engine capacity and weights sth about 2000 kilo 09:52:07 + the tires are quite broad 09:55:12 evil :D 09:58:06 i find "saving the nature" a bit too conservative for my taste, why not ruin it, and see what the future brings along. 09:59:20 the car ruins my wallet 09:59:55 same thing applies for the money, why not spend it all, and see what happens 10:00:23 yea 10:00:26 i could probably continue in the university even if i lived on the street. 10:00:30 i saw what happens 10:00:40 maybe even better, i couldn't do anything but read in the library. 10:00:45 because i wouldn't have anything. 10:00:54 wow what happend? 10:00:57 *happened 10:01:02 flat owner goes mad for a month 10:01:09 did you live in the woods and hunt your own food 10:01:16 friends feed you 10:01:24 lol awesome :D 10:01:37 nooga: how did you get more money again? 10:02:19 next month = salary ;] 10:02:35 + some shitty projects 10:02:44 and i can smoke, drive, eat and pay for my flat 10:03:06 i have tons of money, i'm scared of using it 10:03:13 give me some ;] 10:03:50 yeah right, and take away your awesome drifter life 10:04:28 if i had like a tent and some kinda blanket, i would be the happiest man alive 10:04:44 it's all the social pressure that's keeping my routines up 10:05:14 well i would probably want a computer, so guess i'd need to get moneys for like a cellphone. 10:07:28 ah 10:07:30 details 10:07:41 i've met funny guy in netherlands 10:07:50 funny guys are funny 10:07:57 homeless one, in tidy clothes, with watch and everything 10:08:19 he was with a huuge dog that looked well fed and happy 10:08:59 the guy was speaking quite sophisticated english and claimed that he was a mechanical enginieer 10:09:18 :) 10:10:00 he said that he sleeps on a street with dog, under one blanket so even in the winter it's comfortably warm 10:10:21 and said that he had to move out because the dog attacked housekeeper 10:10:31 and almost killed him ;d 10:10:33 xD 10:11:20 so 10:11:24 it's possible 10:11:43 so cool 10:12:06 mkay 10:12:15 university awaits 10:12:19 hmm 10:12:37 i must go there and do something unspecified in some unspecified lab 10:12:37 for me too, should do morning stuffs and leave. 10:12:51 i must go show them 7 c++ exercises and come back. 10:12:55 lawl 10:14:00 i would've had like 8 hours of lectures, but i didn't feel like it after yesterday's stormy 10:14:03 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 10:14:06 byes 10:14:07 -> 10:14:40 bye 10:21:14 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:21:23 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:47:53 -!- Mony has joined. 10:48:13 plop 11:04:40 #include 11:04:40 int main(void) { 11:04:40 printf("%d\n", (int)sizeof(42)["where is your god now?"]); 11:04:41 return 0; 11:04:41 } 11:04:43 discuss 11:05:05 zomg ! 11:07:31 ehird: that's not portable.... 11:07:41 oklopol: are you sure? 11:08:35 well it's not portable in that the behavior is not guaranteed in the standard, it might be portable portable 11:09:11 god the topic is hilarious 11:09:22 oklopol: o rly, i think you're bullshitting. 11:09:51 ;;) 11:09:53 Well... strings are pointers to memory, and array indexing is commutative. It's the same as (int)("where is your god now?" + 32) or (int)("where is your god now?" + 16) depending on architecture. 11:10:12 MizardX: it's not that 11:10:20 it's the size of 42 11:10:23 sizeof(42) is usually 2, 4 or 8, not 16 or 32. 11:10:44 also the int conversion 11:10:57 both can change from machine to machine 11:11:14 not machine dammit, compilation? my words are gone 11:11:33 well machine, depending what the definition of machine is 11:11:35 aaaanyway. 11:14:19 Anyway, yes, it's close to (int)*("where is your god now?" + sizeof(42)) -- it's not good to forget the * there. 11:17:47 Oh, actually that's not what it is. That was funky. 11:18:00 it isn't? 11:18:05 It's actually just sizeof(char). 11:18:33 okay then i got owned pretty bad. 11:18:36 Because the syntax goes "sizeof unary-expression" or "sizeof (type-name)", and a cast is unary-expression. 11:19:00 So it's the size of the "where is your god now?"[42] expression. 11:19:17 "the case" 11:19:18 *cast 11:19:32 the cast is outside the sizeof, i don't understand what that has to do with precedence 11:20:17 The cast just converts the size_t result of sizeof into int, I don't think it has much to do there. 11:21:09 errso by cast 11:21:16 you meant the indexing 11:21:20 *err, so 11:21:21 Oh, uh, I meant, the [] binds so tight, right. 11:22:30 well okay, this was new to me, that's why you shouldn't learn by doing, only by memorizing the specs can you read actual real life codez. 11:24:31 but, i should reeeeeally start going soon ;) 11:24:32 -> 11:50:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:59:16 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 12:14:43 -!- Corun has joined. 12:19:49 http://www.ariel.com.au/a/teaching-programming.html 12:19:50 ^ 12:19:56 puts gets.to_i + gets.to_i 12:20:05 s/gets/readline/ if that floats your boat. 12:24:43 the oklotalk way would be "out !In + !In" 12:25:10 i've recently started loving oklotalk's syntax again 12:26:15 whoops. that's wrong 12:26:36 unary binds tightest, so "out ( !In + !In" 12:26:41 oklopol: you should make oklotalk concatenative 12:26:51 it actually is somewhat 12:26:55 In ! In! + out 12:27:03 oklopol: what is the ! 12:27:05 and why In vs out? 12:27:21 !Function means call function 12:27:31 out is a function too, but it's lowercase, so it's an actual call 12:27:43 hmm oklopol 12:27:47 what is !X vs x? 12:27:50 this is an okenity issue in oklotalk terminology 12:27:54 x would take an argument 12:27:58 so you'd have to do 12:28:00 in() 12:28:15 oklopol: ah, use/mention distinction? 12:28:22 i.e. "the function X" vs "call X with no args" 12:28:30 yes 12:28:41 oklopol: there are two nice solutions: 12:28:55 1. make it lazy and have no 0-arg functions, they're just thunks, like haskell. <-- Best option, obviously 12:29:06 no, that's not good 12:29:16 2. make it the MENTIONING that requires the exrta char. "in" with no args is clearly more common than passing the function in around 12:29:20 make passing the function in &in 12:29:31 ==> shorter code, all calling looks the same 12:29:38 passing the function is "In", calling it is "in" 12:29:44 that's how oklotalk rolls. 12:29:48 ok, but 12:29:52 why wouldn't this work 12:29:58 out ( in + in 12:30:11 because in, + and in are all funcokens = the "use" case 12:30:13 so that's 12:30:25 out ( in( +( in( argument ) ) ) ) 12:30:38 argument being the contents of _ 12:30:40 oklopol: solution for that: 12:30:45 when you know the arity of a function, never read more args than it 12:30:52 since the system knows that in has no arguments, that can work fine 12:30:54 [perl does that] 12:31:01 so, basically i'd have to change parsing at runtime. 12:31:06 well, yeah. 12:31:11 perl seems to manage fine :p 12:31:22 also i'd say runtime syntax is very oko. 12:31:27 anyway, why are you trying to change oklotalk? it's perfect, and your solutions are just copying languages you like. 12:31:33 no, i dislike perl. 12:31:38 i'm just making suggestions :p 12:31:43 well okay 12:32:07 but that's one thing about oklotalk i'm never going to change 12:32:11 because i like it a lots. 12:32:12 it would seem that runtime syntax to minimize the code size and to make errors even-more-impossible is very oko. 12:32:34 yeah well, oklotalk did have that originally, but i decided to remove runtime parsing. 12:32:49 (errors even more impossible because you cannot give most funcs too many args, simply impossible, and if you give too little args it's a syntax error, not runtime) 12:32:56 although oklotalk has syntax errors 12:32:58 go fig :p 12:33:15 syntax error? 12:33:23 yeah, like 12:33:28 oklotalk will never have syntax errors, that's one of the design goals. 12:33:28 if "foo" is known to take two args 12:33:29 the program 12:33:30 foo 1 12:33:32 although 12:33:36 you could make that mean 12:33:40 foo 1 () 12:33:42 where () = nil 12:36:23 bleh 12:44:19 you can also do "out\+(In\(,)" 12:45:50 which means out( reduce( +, map( in, [(), ()] ) ) ) 12:46:44 lol 12:46:58 oklopol: does oklotalk have an event-based library? 12:47:02 that you can nest events. 12:47:04 then you could do 12:47:07 can't think of anything much shorter 12:47:18 x@in=>x@in=>out x 12:47:19 or something 12:47:28 binded_var@event => dowhat 12:47:32 err 12:47:40 x@in=>y@in=>out x+y 12:47:42 obviously 12:48:27 no it doesn't have that, although you can just do X=in;Y=in;out(X+Y 12:49:08 oklopol: right but, that's not how that'd work 12:49:15 it'd just idle until it got input then schedule another listener 12:49:20 i.e. you could continue doing crap after saying that 12:49:26 and also more advanced event triggers, etc 12:49:40 i.e. in isn't a function there 12:49:48 it's saying, when the in event is trigered bind the result to x 12:49:52 then schedule another trigger 12:49:58 then add the two results together when that is triggered 12:50:04 and output 12:50:09 e.g. you could have a very simple gui lib that way 12:50:41 can you show me an example, and i can tell you if you can just do it the exact same way? 12:51:02 like 12:51:05 e.g. you can do it for callbacks 12:51:15 clicked(button) => out "button clicked" 12:51:16 or whatever 12:51:24 it's just a generic pattern for scheduling events/callbacks 12:51:36 nothing complicated 12:51:53 i think you'd start a new thread for that 12:52:08 and then call a blocking function in it 12:52:13 nahh, do something like twisted 12:52:18 its non-blocking & event-based 12:52:20 instead of threads 12:52:22 so you can do a lot more 12:52:24 without having 1000000 threads 12:52:37 iirc, that's @(X=in) 12:52:38 http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/ ('s for python) 12:52:46 ah, that makes sense 12:52:58 iirc, that's @(X=in),@(Y=in),@(out(X+Y)) 12:53:04 hmm 12:53:06 that's a bit ugly 12:53:09 oklopol: what's the lambda syntax again 12:53:11 {...}? 12:53:13 yeah 12:53:18 i'd go for: 12:53:30 wait 12:53:33 i'm not sure @ is the character for threads, but there's a character for threads 12:53:38 oklopol: whats the arg syntax again? 12:53:40 orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 12:53:41 _ 12:53:43 contains args 12:53:44 what's the implicit arg stuff 12:53:48 right right but what about 12:53:50 a nested lambda 12:53:56 (patternz -> things) 12:54:03 {N -> N*5} 12:54:08 @in = {x -> @in = {y -> out (x+y)}} 12:54:12 {N -> {A -> N + 3} * 5} 12:54:13 @button(clicked) = {out "hi"} 12:54:18 ah, with allcaps 12:54:18 whatever 12:54:21 whoops, that made no sense, but anyway 12:54:22 ^ nice 12:54:27 and not actually threads btw, 12:54:31 just non-blockingy stuff 12:54:50 you just have a mainloop, going through every bit in turn, and run it, nonblockingly 12:55:02 = you can have like 1,000,000 of them and it still works 12:55:04 oh, you're going by what the name of "@" might suggest it means? 12:55:15 no 12:55:19 im suggesting what it should mean 12:55:20 :D 12:55:21 but saying that'd be neat? 12:55:22 yeah okay 12:55:25 ya 12:55:36 oklopol: it could be useful for your oklotalk os 12:55:36 :p 12:56:00 :P 12:56:00 just build everything (keypress,mouse click,move,gui-state-changed (to rerender)) etc as an event 12:57:00 hmhmm 12:57:28 i'm definitely not going to add syntax for events in case events are simply an external thing 12:57:42 so i'd have to somehow incorporate that to the normal message passing syste. 12:57:47 *system 12:57:48 but... 12:58:45 A = @{ @smth = {out "smth given"}; @smthelse = {out "smth else given"} }; A ! §Smthelse 12:59:02 "§" is currently used for atoms, i may change that. 13:00:29 but how about: A = @{ @[§smth, `{out "smth given"}]; @[§smthelse, `{out "smth else given"}] }; A ! §smthelse; A ! §smth; A ! §smthelse 13:00:38 bit verbose, but looks pretty 13:00:45 so that you could give the thread a "cue" 13:01:07 basically just a pattern 13:02:01 patterns are done using the "quote code" list [\ ... ], usually, but for static stuff like an atom or a list you could just as well have the cues without it. 13:03:04 well, that's actually equal to A = @{ §smth -> {out "smth given"}; §smthelse -> {out "smthelse given"}; } :P 13:03:16 only if multiple events could trigger at once would there be a difference 13:03:49 *that* i might be willing to add new syntax for, something like "=>" 13:04:08 wellllll 13:04:12 read up on twisted 13:04:13 :P 13:04:22 oklotalk is proud to have a lot of things that mean almost the same, but you have to know the small details or you'll crash everything. 13:04:25 twisted? 13:04:30 i linked it before. 13:04:34 http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ 13:04:41 its the same kind of event-based system i envisioned for that thing 13:04:43 in python 13:04:50 mhmm. 13:05:33 i don't really feel like reading that. 13:06:30 hmm, yeah i'll do what i said, "=>" will just be a nonblocking "->" 13:07:35 meaning it opens a new thread waiting for the arguments 13:08:08 oklopol: 13:08:09 threads are evil 13:08:10 ;_; 13:08:22 slow, hacky, race conditions, can't have loads at once, ... 13:09:16 yeah and recursion is bad, it uses up the stack, you can get exponential runtime if you make the smallest error ... 13:09:35 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:09:37 hi ais523_ 13:09:46 that's conceptually equal to what you described earlier. 13:09:59 it's just i call it thread, you call it something else. 13:10:14 threads aren't evil. 13:10:57 oklopol: they are sometimes, it depends on whether you use fork() or evil_fork() 13:11:08 ais523: yeah but oklotalk always uses the first one 13:11:12 that's in the spec 13:12:26 but yeah you're right, if you just open a normal thread for the event, that constantly polls for events or something, then yeah, that's slow and hacky. 13:12:36 but it will just execute the blocking poll 13:12:39 and go to sleep 13:12:47 and, with =>, even that doesn't happen 13:13:16 because => just always waits for the input, the function will basically just have a list of "events being waited for", which is then run on input that it is given. 13:14:16 as for race conditions, oklotalk isn't a language where you write stable code, that's simply not what it's aiming for, it's about writing code fast, and in creative ways 13:14:46 yeah but 13:14:46 oklopol: 13:14:49 to get programs working right 13:14:50 does it have a Funge/INTERCAL-like model in which you can predict the speeds threads run at at compile time? 13:14:54 soemtimes you need to solve race conditions 13:14:56 and that is a lot of code 13:14:57 and time 13:14:59 so on the whole... 13:15:57 ehird: i've never encountered a race condition, therefor, i don't believe they're actually a problem unless you're a bad programmer. 13:16:00 *therefore 13:16:02 well 13:16:13 i've never had a program that suffered from a race condition 13:16:41 presumably, because you havent wrote the kind of problem that runs into them 13:16:43 e.g. parallel stuff 13:16:55 ais523_, hi 13:17:07 hi 13:17:12 sorry for leaving so abruptly earlier 13:17:22 my laptop ran out of battery and did an emergency hibernate 13:17:35 and I was about 30% of the way through uploading gcc-bf, too 13:17:42 ehird: i've written parallel stuff. but anyway, this is a moot point, i already explained to you why race condition arguments don't apply 13:18:01 just happen to think they *never* apply, but we don't have to argue about that now. 13:18:17 we can argue about it later, when i'm all grown up and have written parallel code that doesn't work. 13:21:14 -!- nooga has joined. 13:21:18 ah 13:22:38 fizzie 13:26:47 Yes? 13:30:11 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 13:47:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:48:05 fizzie: i've got a graph in which each node is connected to 3 undirected edges 13:48:15 nodes are of 2 types 13:48:37 1 and 2? 13:49:00 and i want to draw that graph placing vertices on square grid so that sum of edge length will be the smallest 13:49:49 nooga: heh, if I had that problem I would have asked oklopol, probably 13:49:59 or maybe oerjan 13:50:04 It feels like half of the time people ask something it's about graph layouting. 13:50:15 really? 13:50:29 It's not only on this channel; elsewhere, too. 13:50:45 i figured out that fizzie is also on #algo 13:50:49 ah 13:50:51 Of course it's probably more like a single-digit percentage, but still. 13:50:54 so i thought he might know 13:51:03 What's #algo? I don't think I'm on anything like that. 13:51:04 #algo? 13:51:15 ##algorithms 13:51:16 ;p 13:51:19 i'm there. 13:51:29 fizzie isn't 13:51:46 no wai 13:52:00 If I am, it's news to me. 13:52:01 so i mixed you two into one supreme being 13:52:02 nooga: so, put them all in the same position, (0,0) 13:52:07 distances are zero 13:52:11 wow, that was easy. 13:52:16 gaaa 13:52:18 no 13:52:20 nno? 13:52:24 Actually that was my first thought too. :p 13:52:40 nodes are transistors of types P and N 13:53:09 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 13:53:09 and i'm figuring out how to make a compact circuit with shortest cables possible 13:53:37 nooga: do you have mirror-image versions of the transistors 13:53:43 or are b, c, e in a fixed order? 13:53:47 Why, are cables that expensives? 13:53:56 cables have resistance 13:53:57 Anyway, Very Busy(tm) now; hopefully the oklopol side of the hypothetical oklozzie complex will help here. 13:54:06 :P 13:54:38 well it's about wires so this is ais523 territory, also i'm not that comfortable with solving intractable problems. 13:55:12 hmm 13:55:27 three undirected edges you say, right okay transistors 13:55:44 nooga: don't you need to put in resistors as well as transistors? 13:55:52 MOSFET 13:55:58 even so 13:56:02 digital circuit? 13:56:06 yep 13:56:12 ah, ok 13:57:26 can the wires intersect each other? you're not being very specific 13:57:35 yep they can 13:57:40 can the wires intersect the transistors? 13:57:53 manhattan distance? 13:57:55 well, why not 13:58:08 or you know euclidean 13:58:17 transistors will be on one side of the board and connections on the other 13:59:03 You could maybe abuse one of the many IC placement-and-routing tools. 13:59:35 what an ugly practical solution 13:59:36 :D 13:59:39 :D 14:00:23 -!- ais523_ has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 14:00:29 distance is not a problem 14:00:54 so, we have a set of nodes, and a set of three other nodes for each node specifying three nodes they're connected with, we need to find a placing for each node such that the sum of distances to each of these neighbors for each node are minimal. 14:01:00 -!- Asztal has joined. 14:01:02 problem is how to find the solution in a way a bit more elegant than bruteforce or genetic algo 14:01:25 yup 14:01:46 depends on how good a solution you want 14:02:08 ah well 14:02:23 node count isn't bigger than 10000 14:04:10 well 14:04:20 a random scheme that comes to mind 14:04:46 hmm wait... 14:05:28 intractable problems are fun 14:05:32 broken m-keys aren't :< 14:06:12 well. one thing you can do 14:06:37 is find connected components for deleting a certain node, for all nodes 14:06:50 basically you find nodes the dropping of which results in multiple graphs 14:07:01 hmm 14:07:14 not sure that works well with this kinda thing, i'm not sure what kind the graphs you have are. 14:07:33 anyway i think the components aren't *that* 14:07:48 hmph, aren't that connected, probably there are sets of close nodes that split the network. 14:08:27 that lets you divide and conquer, the merging step is simply finding the two spots on the map to put the submaps in 14:08:35 *finding two 14:09:04 but i don't know, as i said, a bit stupid trying to find a good strategy with only a slight guess about what the graphs look like 14:10:55 hm 14:11:33 but say you have something like abfbcedb, you could split on b, and then recurse on a, f and ced 14:11:37 i could prepare some samples 14:12:18 now, you need not only find a good placing for the subgraphs, you need to get the things b is connected to to be "on the side" of the returned map 14:12:28 because they need to be connected to b in the merging step 14:13:00 the graph is quite massive because it's an output from my integrator 14:13:00 AnMaster: anyone else who cares: http://code.eso-std.org/gcc-bf/gcc-bf.tar.bz2 is a version of gcc-bf so far which actually compiles 14:13:07 ais523, nice 14:13:14 but that's really not very hard, because we can have wires go through anything, it's simple just to mingle the whole subgraphs together. 14:13:24 hmm. i'm really bad at explaining my visions. 14:13:24 in which you can define eg OR gate wrom basic P and N elements 14:13:43 and then define eg. adder which uses that OR 14:13:51 ais523, i'm wgetting it 14:14:02 AnMaster: use the wrapper script to run it, and the arg -Wl,-progress,-abi,-asm if you don't want it to just seem to hang for ages and then crash 14:14:05 nooga: yeah i get it; that's why i think something like this might work, you probably don't have that many cycles 14:14:20 mhm 14:15:04 and everything is compiled into a huge graph with basic P and N elements 14:15:13 (if there's no cycles, then this is a trivial problem) 14:15:44 (because a divide-and-conquer scheme like that will work perfectly) 14:15:50 (reasonably perfectly) 14:18:39 ais523: ported libc? 14:18:52 nooga: newlib compiles, sort of 14:19:00 it compiles enough to produce a libc 14:19:19 the makefile crashes eventually but I can still salvage the libraries it creates 14:20:13 hmm. i want a nice hypertext editor, something like {xxx} which is then a direct link to opening the file xxx in a new tab. 14:20:24 in case it's not open, otherwise just showing the tab 14:21:15 otherwise wordpad is a perfect text editor 14:21:34 (except for the obvious defect of not remembering which font i like) 14:26:12 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 14:26:31 jedit is quite cool 14:26:43 oklopol: Didn't they call that html? :p 14:27:49 err no they didn't call that kinda program html. and i like my syntax better. html is more about markup than about hyperlinks. 14:28:13 hyperlinks wouldn't need that much crap, they'd need one hyperlink contruct for doing hyperlinks. 14:28:22 oklopol: 14:28:27 foo 14:28:34 admittedly, thats longer than {hello} 14:28:44 oklopol: how about mediawiki? 14:28:47 foo bar [[hello]] 14:28:53 Gnome's "Tomboy" note-taking thing seemed like a reasonable thing, but never got around starting to use it. 14:29:05 who cares about the syntax, i'm asking about the program 14:30:00 i thought about an editor in which you can embed scripts in the text 14:30:22 that are collapsable and take some arguments 14:30:35 and generate something when you write the file 14:31:18 or work as links, keep some data which will be written in specified format etc 14:32:01 Seems like they made a Windows version of that thing, too; http://live.gnome.org/Tomboy/Win32 -- of course, the links there aren't to other files, just other Tomboy notes, so you'd need to keep everything there in order for it to be useful. 14:32:11 soo it looks like: some text yadda yadda [script button] yadda yadda 14:32:26 and when you click the button you can edit the script or sth 14:37:29 -!- oklopol has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Enhanced, even more hilarious topic. 14:45:26 ah 14:46:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:53:50 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 14:54:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:56:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:03:42 that graph thingy drives me mad 15:13:27 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:13:32 -!- puzzlet has joined. 15:18:12 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:20:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:24:11 ais523: how to use that gcc-bf thing? 15:24:18 compile it 15:24:19 run it 15:25:43 omfg 15:25:44 huuuge 15:26:07 got shitloads of errors 15:30:35 nooga: errors or warnings? 15:30:40 there are a huge number of warnings 15:30:44 most of which are in gcc itself 15:30:51 not in my code 15:32:16 nah 15:32:17 errors 15:32:27 it failed 15:32:41 I'm not really surprised, I had trouble getting it to compile at my end 15:32:45 what was the first error? 15:32:51 or the last error if you can't see the first 15:33:39 configure: error: /bin/sh ../../gcc-4.2-20070719/fixincludes/../config.sub bf failed 15:33:43 first 15:33:51 nooga: ah, ok 15:33:57 did my patches to config.sub apply properly? 15:34:10 have no idea 15:34:16 never compiled gcc 15:34:33 nooga: what did you do upon downloading the package? 15:34:43 just run the build script? 15:35:02 it uses programs nobody has, is the problem, I used realpath in it and possibly you don't have that 15:35:27 um 15:35:54 i have realpath 15:35:57 ah, ok 15:36:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:36:03 and yes, i just run the script 15:36:27 as root ;p 15:36:29 grep for bf) in gcc-4.2-20070719/config.sub 15:36:32 and don't run as root 15:36:35 it doesn't need it 15:37:21 bf) ? 15:37:33 nooga: it's how you do a switch statement in bash 15:37:39 my patch should have added it 15:37:48 but the error message suggests that it didn't patch for some reason 15:37:53 none 15:38:08 :{ 15:38:32 ah, ok 15:39:11 nooga: if you run patch gcc-4.2-20070719/config.sub < patches/config.sub.patch, what happens? 15:42:56 WOOOOOOOOOT 15:43:02 i didn't have patch 15:44:05 strange to have realpath but not patch... 15:44:15 that's a possibility I hadn't even thought of 15:44:26 you probably want to make sure you have gcc's other dependencies too, there are quite a lot 15:47:00 aaaaaaa 15:47:11 never seeen so many errors in one make 15:49:51 sorry everyone, connection problems... 15:50:49 meh 15:50:53 i give up 15:52:33 * AnMaster is building gcc-bf too 15:52:37 but I lacked realpath 15:52:45 wrote a shell function replacement 15:52:46 nooga: it'll have a saner build script in a while 15:52:53 ais523, see /msg too 15:53:25 ais523, at some point you will want to be able to compile gcc-bf with itself 15:53:39 I'm not sure that's even possible, but it would be fun to try 15:53:49 gcc-bf compiles files very quickly and links them very slowly 15:53:59 heh 15:54:07 ais523, Linux for BF? 15:54:16 AnMaster: thought of that too, it's a worrying thought 15:54:21 probably we should get qemu for BF first 15:54:25 then use that to run Linux 15:54:30 ais523, no MMU so you would need uclinux 15:54:34 although that's cheating really 15:54:45 and yes it is cheating 15:54:49 and wouldn't work 15:54:56 since qemu doesn't compile on gcc 4.x 15:54:59 AnMaster: hmm... maybe I should try to build uclibc rather than newlib for gcc-bf 15:55:07 ais523, maybe, no idea 15:55:16 newlib is even more minimal isn't it? 15:55:29 yep 15:55:40 I added just enough to clean up all the dangling references 15:55:53 hm? 15:56:01 newlib can't do everything by itself 15:56:06 ah right 15:56:08 i think it would be better to write a minimal C compiler that targets bf 15:56:08 it needs to know how to do I/O for instance 15:56:11 would need some low level functions 15:56:18 nooga, nah 15:56:22 write an LLVM backend 15:56:25 instead 15:56:27 nooga: BF-C exists IIRC, doing it with gcc seems to impress more people though 15:56:34 ah 15:56:40 ais523, yes and it could handle C99 15:56:45 and potentially C++ 15:56:55 C++ requires RTTI 15:56:57 if you implement a libstdc++ 15:56:57 AnMaster: gcc-bf can handle C99, although doesn't have all its standard library 15:56:58 bf-c is broken 15:56:59 and shit 15:56:59 :D 15:57:06 ais523, right 15:57:13 nooga, yes and? 15:57:22 i can't imagine that in bf 15:57:27 RTTI is implemented at quite a high level I believe 15:57:29 and there's no reason in theory why it couldn't handle C++, except it would be a pain to get gcc to not try to do clever linker tricks that won't work 15:57:43 ais523, heh 15:58:49 prolog -> bf :D 15:59:25 nooga, um prolog isn't an esolang 15:59:28 so not relevant 15:59:31 AnMaster: so, neither is C 15:59:38 oh that was -> to 15:59:40 not -> better than 15:59:55 I suppose writing a gplc backend could be interesting 16:00:04 gplc? 16:00:23 the GNU Prolog compiler 16:00:30 as opposed to gprolog which is an interpreter 16:00:40 amusingly, you can create gprolog by giving gplc a blank file as input 16:00:49 apart from the command-line args end up different I think 16:02:19 heh 16:02:34 i want that circuit router done :| 16:04:56 amusingly, you can create gprolog by giving gplc a blank file as input <-- um the program generates the other one? 16:05:19 ??? 16:05:25 AnMaster: gplc is a compiler 16:05:32 gprolog's a Prolog interp with a debugger and such 16:05:42 if gplc isn't given an initial goal, it links in a small interp so you can run the program 16:05:50 and the debugger's linked in unless you tell it not to 16:06:01 heh 16:09:19 nice alternative to collabedit: http://etherpad.com/ 16:10:23 collaborative coding in that way sucks 16:10:52 yes, but it's good for other things 16:10:58 ais523 & comex have used it extensively before 16:11:01 (collabedit) 16:11:05 etherpad seems faster. 16:11:34 good for what things? 16:11:36 gobby works better but it isn't a website and takes about two months to install on Mac OS X 16:11:58 nooga: planning scams in Agora, for instance :-P I've used it for that before... 16:12:06 ais523: and when it is installed it's awkward to use 16:12:36 I thought it was pretty easy to use, actually 16:12:47 maybe it varies by OS 16:12:48 yes, if it likes your platform it probably is. 16:13:10 when it uses about 5 different focus/window-creation mechanisms none of which you are familiar with, when its graphics keep redrawing itself oddly, 16:13:18 when it refuses to use a font bigger than like 4px by default... 16:13:24 when you can't use any of the common shortcuts in its editor... etc 16:13:29 ah 16:13:34 none of that happened to me 16:13:57 well, you're lucky, you use X11. (See wut i did thar? I said lucky and x11 in the same sentence. arf arf arf) 16:14:01 heheheh 16:14:30 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:27:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:28:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:46:07 -!- thutubot has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:01:32 oklopol: You have any link that describes oklotalk? All I can find in the logs is examples. 17:02:48 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:02:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:03:20 hrrm 17:03:26 I wonder what happened there 17:03:32 he was talking a second before 17:03:55 oh server is down 17:03:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:03:58 ais523, hi 17:04:01 what happened there? 17:04:10 -!- ehird has joined. 17:04:50 AnMaster: no idea 17:04:54 oh, I get it 17:05:00 ehird's server rebooted 17:05:02 ais523, server crashed or something I believe 17:05:04 and took my bouncer with it 17:05:07 ais523, yes that is rather strange 17:05:10 the fact I'm here must mean the reboot worked 17:05:10 to just reboot 17:05:38 not crashed, deliberately rebooted 17:05:44 after an upgrade 17:06:51 MizardX: nope. i have a short spec/tutorial about it's simplified sister language oklotalk-- somewhere. 17:07:21 but oklotalk has a few features i haven't even finished yet, even though the language was born mannny years ago 17:09:12 this one? http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk--.txt 17:10:19 no that's just an example program 17:10:35 at least it's in the articles somewhere randomly split into n pieces 17:11:47 that's a subset of oklotalk with sexp syntax 17:12:25 because i was to lazy to make an actual parser, and there was a deadline because that was a highschool project 17:12:40 i probably wouldn't have gotten even that implemented without a deadline 17:12:59 i never do, which is why i wish there were esolang courses @ the uni 17:14:47 i'd like it if there was like a mandatory programming project every month. would prevent my slacking, because i'm quite a perfectionist when it comes to school (well university, i didn't give a shit about high school) 17:17:22 -!- jix has joined. 17:17:40 I don't understand this line: (-> [$setcar h] h) ... wouldn't that just return the argument that was passed to it? 17:17:52 nope 17:17:54 it has weird scope 17:17:59 since you have an h in the "object" containing it 17:18:04 the h in that pattern match overrides it 17:18:09 then it returns the new car that you provided it 17:18:15 so, yes, it returns what you give, but with a side-effect 17:18:20 yeah you should think of it as OO with function syntax. 17:18:29 well dunno about "should", but you can, in that case. 17:20:20 don't ask why you can still have recursion... ;) 17:21:24 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:21:38 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:22:00 ' is recusion? 17:22:12 yeah, it's basically just a shorthand 17:22:30 well, also useful with lambdas i guess 17:22:54 MizardX: ' = current func 17:23:07 so yes it enables easy recursion 17:23:14 indeed, it's not actually "recursion", it's just as well the c++ "this" pointer 17:27:27 { } = lambda, and (-> ) is pattern match? 17:27:57 MizardX: {} = thing. it's the object/function thin 17:27:57 g 17:28:02 and (-> ) is the pattern match on the args yeah 17:28:30 (-> pattern expr-to-eval expr-to-eval expr-to-eval...) 17:28:32 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:28:33 yeah 17:28:37 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:30:05 the implementation may have a few features, especially regarding pattern matching, that aren't specced there. 17:30:41 i think i added guards, as a special tuple 17:31:29 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:40:30 how are strings implemented? list of atoms? 17:42:28 in my interp they were a python string. but a list of atoms would be nicer, or a list of characters. 17:42:54 currently there's nothing in the semantics that separates strings from lists. 17:43:38 except that strings have less functionality 17:43:59 i was simply too lazy to scrap the string implementation and just make them lists. 17:44:07 which would've taken like 10 minutes 17:44:22 MizardX: are you implementing it? 17:44:36 because if you are, you may need further info about the scoping. 17:44:38 it's a bit complex 17:45:16 well not that complex, but somewhat 17:45:25 "not a bit, somewhat" 17:45:45 i should think what i say 17:46:41 oklopol: Well... I was trying to implement a redivider parser in oklotalk... but now that you mention it, it could be fun to implement an interpreter for oklotalk. 17:47:19 parsing would be nicer if i'd implemented cutting and pasting lists... but you can do it already ofc, you just have to add the functionality yourself 17:48:05 i don't think it'd be that hard to implement it, took me about a week of slowly typing it up, but that was mainly because i was making stuff up as i went 17:49:07 i wanted both static and dynamic scoping, and that wasn't all that hard to implement, the problem was i also wanted function parameters to be persistent so you could do something like that setcar thing 17:49:20 unfortunately this meant you had to make a new object if you wanted to recurse. 17:49:38 because otherwise the caller would've destroy its own variables 17:50:23 so there's a runtime monitor on all objects, and an object is copied if it's made a call to from inside itself <<< this is what i didn't want you to ask about, but it's helpful if you want to try implementing 17:53:58 sorry 17:54:09 hi jix 17:54:15 jix: that's okay i like getting pinged 17:54:16 did you just ping the whole of #esoteric by mistake, or just me? 17:54:20 whole 17:54:20 -!- Asztal_ has joined. 17:54:31 in my old irc client /ping did ping the server and not the channel ^^ 17:54:44 and I'm used to getting pinged because I keep losing connection without telling anyone 17:54:46 yeah usually you have to quote it 17:54:55 so people talking to me tend to ping me a lot when I stop talking to find out if I'm here 17:55:06 was that good 17:56:14 * oklopol leaves for a while 18:00:32 Hmm... an atom is any non-whitespace, non-alphanumeric, non-grouping character followed by non-whitespace, non-grouping? such as %abc ? Or is it just $abc, with a dollar sign? 18:01:53 [^\w\s()[\]{}][^\s()[\]{}]* 18:09:37 Made a Redivider implementation in JavaScript for no real reason: 18:09:38 js> p.expr("1+(2*3)+4")[1] 18:09:39 123*4++ 18:09:45 That's the example program there. 18:11:01 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:12:20 Add a link in the wiki :) 18:12:47 It doesn't have a web page yet, just works in a JavaScript shell. Maybe I'll make a small page with an input form or something, and then link to it. 18:13:01 fizzie: link to the source, he means 18:13:26 paste.eso-std.org/ 18:13:31 Well, soonishly. It doesn't have any usage examples or anything. 18:14:15 http://zem.fi/~fis/redivider.js.txt if you just want to see it, but I'll be polishing it up a bit more. 18:14:39 fuck you man, that's really short 18:14:40 :( 18:15:06 looks long to me 18:15:09 714 lines, it's not really that short. 18:15:31 fizzie, is javascript OO? 18:15:38 If you want. 18:15:44 hm 18:15:46 It's a prototype-style OO, though. 18:15:50 ah 18:15:59 So you can add methods to objects any way you wish. 18:17:09 i know js 18:17:09 :P 18:23:15 MizardX: $ followed by alnum 18:24:03 ok 18:24:38 _ included? 18:25:12 sure. at least in actual oklotalk 18:26:49 float numbers? 18:26:59 none. 18:27:23 you can add them if you please, there's a rational number implementation, the one you linked. 18:27:49 literal strings? 18:28:23 yeah the usual syntax. 18:28:35 double/single quoted? 18:28:55 whaddya think? 18:29:29 i can't tell you because you can already deduce it yourself :P 18:29:56 double quoted, sure. But not all languages allow single quotes, or they mean different things. 18:30:16 ' = this 18:30:17 remember 18:30:27 oh, forgot 18:30:40 -!- Asztal_ has quit (Connection timed out). 18:36:16 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:36:20 -!- puzzlet has joined. 18:43:23 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 18:55:17 -!- olsner has joined. 18:55:22 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:58:18 -!- Corun has joined. 19:14:44 -!- kar8nga has joined. 19:17:05 -!- M0ny has joined. 19:26:45 Someone make up a nice-sounding word. That is short. 19:27:12 glurf 19:28:03 that is nice. now other people enter some and i shall pick the nicest, and you shall gain money* 19:28:05 *no money 19:34:39 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:35:05 -!- M0ny has changed nick to Mony. 19:35:16 ehird, are you ignoring me or would you see a word I pasted? 19:35:31 AnMaster: use a bot 19:35:35 hm 19:35:46 Deewiant, well no I don't want to circumvent ignore 19:35:49 it is his own fault 19:35:59 true true 19:36:57 Deewiant: that was a very dada two lines. 19:37:14 as I said Deewiant: his own fault 19:38:11 ehird: how about flyug 19:38:19 rolls off the tongue pretty nicely 19:38:24 oklopol: maybe in finnish 19:38:26 how do you pronounce it? 19:38:27 * oklopol is a lizard 19:38:32 also it's quite hard to type 19:39:30 ehird: i pronounce it like it's pronounced in finnish. i don't think you can express that in english 19:39:57 yu doesn't sound very nice to me 19:39:58 and no it's not a very finnish word, unless you're a lizard 19:40:17 "yu" can't exist in a finnish word. 19:40:33 that's why you don't like idd 19:40:37 *it 19:40:47 yep 19:41:00 but there are some things that can't exist in finnish words which sound good 19:41:04 unbelievably enough :-P 19:41:23 well flyug for instance :O 19:41:30 no, not that one 19:42:04 finns are so fun! 19:42:08 totally. 19:44:23 bye 19:44:25 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 19:54:18 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 19:55:04 * oklopol joins 20:20:48 -!- Asztal has joined. 20:46:26 FLYUGZEUG. 20:47:02 From the German word flugzeug 'aircraft'. 20:47:48 'flight-stuff' 20:48:11 "tool" would be closer 20:48:21 "gizmo" 20:49:34 tool is werkzeug 20:50:08 aaand? 20:50:28 I've never seen das Zeug in itself mean anything other than "stuff" as an uncountable 20:51:20 like, as a singular? "es gab Zeug da" or something? 20:51:31 that doesn't sound right. 20:51:59 singular isn't the correct term... 20:52:10 uncountable. :-P 20:52:11 like milch and wasser and the like. 20:52:12 yeah 20:53:17 "uncountable." » "like, singular? no, that's not right." » "uncountable". » "yeah" 20:53:29 lol 20:53:33 i missed that, sorry :P 20:53:44 stopped reading after "stuff" 20:53:52 for some reason 20:55:23 well anyway, i haven't seen it used as an uncountable 20:55:47 but, i'd say it's the "kalu" in "työkalu". 20:55:49 that's the only way I've seen it used alone 20:55:53 it's like a thingie. 20:55:55 well, sorat 20:55:59 s/at/ta/ 20:56:16 but you don't have "ein Zeug". 20:56:21 you have "Zeug". 20:56:38 maybe so. 21:00:34 (google gives "das Zeug" as the first sensical result) 21:01:02 yep, and that's uncountable. Or a meaning I'm unaware of. :-P 21:01:45 i didn't even read context, but hmm right, that's true :D 21:02:05 i'm trying to do other stuff here, really end up doing nothing at all. 21:03:23 Zoinks. 21:06:53 now Deewiant, how come we keep ending up in arguments about language? i mean, i don't even care about language! 21:07:11 Then don't talk about it ;-) 21:07:18 I have a feeling I've been the cause of at least some of those. 21:08:04 time to go home, anyway 21:08:07 bye everyone 21:08:16 o/ 21:08:18 bye 21:08:29 Wave-wave. 21:08:40 Deewiant: I DON'T THINK O/ IS ACTUALLY ENGLISH 21:08:48 * oklopol leaves! -> 21:09:06 Gneh, my Tampere train leaves in ten hours, and I'm still lacking slides for a presentationationary thing. :/ 21:09:07 oklopol: I don't think -> is 21:09:23 Yes, according to people here "->" is a very Finnish thing. 21:09:51 Deewiant: in fact, in my opinion... nevermind 21:10:05 :-) 21:24:34 hm 21:24:54 * AnMaster wonders what would happen if an (email) bounce message would bounce 21:25:04 would it stop bouncing after a while or just continue? 21:25:43 Double-bounces aren't usually sent out. 21:26:42 Postfix at least has a feature to deliver double-bounces to the postmaster account; I'm not sure if it even does that by default. 21:28:41 I think with the default configuration Postfix sends bounce messages using a suitable SMTP envelope address so that if the bounce bounces, it will be just discarded. 21:30:02 Still, I'm sure there are numerous people who have managed to configure infinite email loops. 21:30:39 "grep -c TODO" gives me the number 11 for my LaTeX file. :/ 21:31:49 fizzie, ouch 21:32:02 fizzie, better hurry up then 21:32:35 I should be packing up things and all that fluff, too. 21:33:05 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:33:10 -!- puzzlet has joined. 21:34:10 -!- jix_ has joined. 21:34:16 -!- LinuS has joined. 21:43:46 -!- jix__ has joined. 21:45:39 -!- MizardX- has joined. 21:45:46 -!- MizardX has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:45:50 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 21:48:43 -!- jix__ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:53:00 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 21:58:05 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:04:10 -!- Corun has joined. 22:07:10 -!- warrie has joined. 22:15:06 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sì, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 22:22:22 -!- Asztal_ has joined. 22:24:25 -!- Asztal__ has joined. 22:25:45 -!- Asztal___ has joined. 22:28:46 -!- Asztal____ has joined. 22:30:13 -!- Asztal_____ has joined. 22:30:31 wow... 5 clones of me 22:30:39 worst ISP ever 22:33:21 -!- Asztal has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:33:26 -!- Asztal_____ has changed nick to Asztal. 22:36:27 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 22:42:53 -!- Asztal_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:43:16 -!- Asztal__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:44:46 -!- Asztal___ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:47:58 -!- Asztal____ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:48:35 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:03:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:46:06 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:46:11 -!- MizardX- has joined. 23:46:13 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 23:46:23 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 23:48:25 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:54:27 -!- jix has joined.