00:10:15 <pgimeno_> http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/colortry.php?c[]=082E17&c[]=DCEBFD&c[]=46DE87
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00:36:57 <GregorR> I'm writing Variations on the Annoying Nokia Theme
00:37:21 <pgimeno> I'm afraid that one is from spanish origin
00:37:43 <pgimeno> any pointers on the Variations?
00:38:32 <GregorR> ?
00:40:03 <pgimeno> "the Nokia ringtone [...] is based on Tárrega's Gran Vals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%A1rrega
00:40:09 <pgimeno> "the Nokia ringtone [...] is based on Tárrega's Gran Vals." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%C3%A1rrega
00:43:35 <GregorR> Heh
00:44:51 <GregorR> Well, mine is jazzy, his probably wasn't :P
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02:28:37 <oklokok> o
02:29:36 <Slereah> k
02:30:07 <oklokok> howzit goin
02:30:46 <oklokok> i got by beat up by pizza delivery guys, discuss
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03:38:37 <pgimeno> <pgimeno> GregorR: there are a few bugs in the current ORK, e.g. cat is doubly broken (both on the program and on the interpreter side)
03:38:50 <pgimeno> I meant on the *compiler* side, sorry
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04:55:48 <pgimeno> GregorR: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/orkspec.txt - any omissions?
04:58:53 <bsmntbombdood> ok guys look at this loser
04:58:55 <bsmntbombdood> http://lbrandy.com/blog/2008/11/the-hardest-test-i-ever-gave-c/
04:59:53 <bsmntbombdood> he get's all snarky about paying attention to detail and then: "void main(int)"
04:59:57 <bsmntbombdood> his code doesn't even compile
05:09:38 <psygnisfive> pgimeno: might i suggest using that-relative clauses instead of which-relative clauses? they feel more natural
05:10:05 <pgimeno> psygnisfive: example please?
05:10:13 <psygnisfive> An ape can have a neighbour which is an ape.
05:10:14 <psygnisfive> becomes
05:10:18 <psygnisfive> An ape can have a neighbour that is an ape.
05:11:47 <pgimeno> psygnisfive: oh sorry, the language is already defined by GregorR, it's just that the specs are not as complete as desirable. That is not a new spec.
05:12:02 <psygnisfive> ah. well gregorr, same to you. :P
05:13:20 <pgimeno> off to bed, I'll read any response after some sleep
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05:47:59 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: it doesn't? i thought c++ lets you skip the names of arguments if you don't use them.
05:48:27 <oklokok> (which is the reason declarations don't have them, they have no body)
05:48:29 <oklokok> oh
05:48:39 <oklokok> well yeah, right, main takes two arguments.
05:49:21 <oklokok> i was basically just assuming you were wrong and finding a reason why ;)
05:56:08 <oklokok> i don't get #5, how is that hard, is there a trick?
05:56:18 <oklokok> This is the solution, y = 3 evaluates to true
05:56:29 <oklokok> *answer
05:57:26 <oklokok> i mean, that's like the first thing each and every c++ tutorial teaches, "=" doesn't check for equality
05:59:14 <oklokok> err, if someone doesn't see the quotation marks in the bonus, they are either blind, or not programmers.
05:59:37 <oklokok> that is a trivial test :|
06:00:32 <oklokok> also i hate that guy already, "this test i made ooohh it's so hard just look at how cool it is"
06:01:13 <bsmntbombdood> oklokok: c++ lets you do that?
06:01:28 <bsmntbombdood> anyway it's the wrong type
06:01:32 <bsmntbombdood> should be char**
06:02:19 <bsmntbombdood> you should have seen the programming classes at my highschool
06:02:38 <bsmntbombdood> i went to the room to work on a computer one day while they were in class
06:02:40 <bsmntbombdood> it was terrible
06:04:34 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: i'm pretty sure it does. haven't tested though.
06:04:45 <bsmntbombdood> well that's dumb
06:04:53 <oklokok> it is?
06:05:21 <bsmntbombdood> yes
06:05:27 <oklokok> i think it's mostly for inheritance things, you know, not needing some arg anymore or something
06:05:59 <bsmntbombdood> well main returning void is still an error
06:06:40 <oklokok> we have pretty decent c++ exercises, which i actually should start doing right now.
06:07:01 <oklokok> forgot i had to return them today, so fun c++ morning \o/
06:08:29 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: i can't say i know main's rules. but i'm pretty sure that's wrong too, although i'm also sure gcc compiles it.
06:08:53 <bsmntbombdood> foo.cpp:1: error: ‘::main’ must return ‘int’
06:08:55 <bsmntbombdood> not
06:09:06 <oklokok> yeah okay, makes sense
06:09:11 <oklokok> just assumed he'd have tested.
06:10:20 <oklokok> a really hard test would not ask what the standard says, but what *different implementations* do. i mean, that's what you'll be using in practise, so good to know their quirks for situations where the standard is fuzzy ;)
06:11:11 <bsmntbombdood> dubious
06:11:24 <oklokok> also he explains at the bottom that he was not trying to be smug, but just showing what an ass he'd been as a first-time teacher
06:11:44 <oklokok> how's that dubious, mister
06:11:53 <bsmntbombdood> teaching to a specific implementation is bad
06:12:39 <bsmntbombdood> you'd have to teach the standard and the various implementations, which beginning programming teachers don't have the skill or time to do
06:12:52 <oklokok> err
06:13:01 <oklokok> if you teach them, how's it a hard test
06:13:05 <oklokok> you teach the standard
06:13:22 <oklokok> you mention you ask implementations.
06:13:50 <bsmntbombdood> well then you are a bad teacher for not giving your students the resources they need to pass your dumb test
06:14:34 <oklokok> well tbh i was not being all that serious.
06:14:55 <oklokok> i would probably just ask for something that makes sense if i was a teacher
06:15:10 <oklokok> c++ isn't a good language for nitpicking
06:15:14 <bsmntbombdood> i hate c++
06:15:39 <oklokok> i used to love it, then i hated it, now i like it in theory, but probably wouldn't like to program in it.
06:18:34 <oklokok> hmm...
06:18:57 <bsmntbombdood> C on the other hand
06:18:59 <oklokok> what if the test was really easy but it was graded backwards?
06:18:59 <bsmntbombdood> is fun
06:19:22 <oklokok> or that you didn't get points at all! how about that? is that good hard?
06:19:38 <oklokok> C is okay, i probably wouldn't like programming in it either
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06:19:49 <bsmntbombdood> what do you mean "probably"?
06:19:57 <Organ_used_homos> I mean probably
06:19:57 <bsmntbombdood> what do you like programming in?
06:20:00 -!- Organ_used_homos has changed nick to Slereah.
06:20:08 <oklokok> i'm a pythonist nowadays
06:20:09 <Slereah> And I like programming in Scheme/
06:20:13 <Slereah> Or python, too
06:20:16 <oklokok> scheme is fun
06:20:22 <Slereah> They both have their advantages
06:20:24 <oklokok> but i just do python. the ide opens fast.
06:20:28 <Slereah> Unlike C.
06:20:36 <bsmntbombdood> scheme is fun
06:21:03 <oklokok> scheme is fun in theory, but i've decided i hate sexps.
06:21:19 <Slereah> You hate sex?
06:21:20 <oklokok> they delocalize the code writing process
06:21:26 <Slereah> S-expressions?
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06:21:50 <oklokok> because everything you do requires wrappering in parens, it's simply annoying to write
06:21:56 <oklokok> Slereah: no the other sexp
06:22:05 <Slereah> I don't know what the other is
06:22:24 <oklokok> okay then maybe you shouldn't be in a conversation about scheme you filthy noob?
06:22:31 <oklokok> (it's the first kind of sexp.)
06:23:05 <psygnisfive> oklokok
06:23:08 <oklokok> psygnisfive
06:23:09 <Slereah> HATE CRIME
06:23:11 <psygnisfive> hows it goin?
06:23:56 <oklokok> psygnisfive: well i got beat up by pizza delivery guys, been trying to solve this cypher a 7-yo did "for god to decypher", and playing the dotact2 game
06:24:15 <oklokok> you can choose the most interesting one for further questions
06:24:32 <Slereah> wat
06:24:48 <psygnisfive> was this pizza delivery guy trying to engage in klingon sex with you?
06:26:13 <oklokok> not sure
06:26:17 <oklokok> what's klingon sex like?
06:26:36 <Slereah> Rough.
06:27:15 <oklokok> one headbutted me to the ground, then two of them elbowed me a few times, but that was pretty irrelevant for damage
06:27:23 <oklokok> they did not rape me
06:27:36 <Slereah> Can I rape you?
06:27:54 <oklokok> depends on the exact meaning of "can"
06:28:00 <oklokok> well, not sure it does
06:28:07 <oklokok> but it could, so maybe you should be more specific
06:33:43 <bsmntbombdood> darn
06:34:56 <oklokok> rand
06:37:18 <Slereah> A = A >:|
06:38:11 <bsmntbombdood> i'm bored
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06:45:06 <bsmntbombdood> ugh
06:45:13 <bsmntbombdood> i hate how people confused common lisp with lisp
06:46:26 <oklokok> who confused?
06:47:02 <bsmntbombdood> another channel
06:47:37 <oklokok> you're on quite many channels i've never heard about
06:47:46 <oklokok> that's a lie, i've whoissed you manyfold
06:48:34 <oklokok> not that i'm sure what that means
06:49:55 <bsmntbombdood> MODE +i PLEASE
06:50:38 <oklokok> why i
06:51:40 <psygnisfive> commonlisp is a horrible evil dialect of lisp
06:51:44 <psygnisfive> scheme for ever!
06:52:35 <bsmntbombdood> psygnisfive: yes
06:52:49 <psygnisfive> seriously. clisp is so ugly D:
06:53:15 <bsmntbombdood> #' disagrees with you!
06:53:29 <psygnisfive> what?
06:53:32 <psygnisfive> #' is wrong?
06:53:51 <bsmntbombdood> ?
06:53:58 <bsmntbombdood> have you ever programmed cl?
06:54:05 <psygnisfive> yes
06:54:10 <psygnisfive> its so painful :(
06:54:21 <bsmntbombdood> #'x is a reader macro for (function x)
06:54:24 <bsmntbombdood> part of why cl is ugly
06:54:33 <psygnisfive> a what?
06:54:37 <psygnisfive> what the hell does that mean??
06:54:59 <oklokok> isn't it basically just something that lets you use the function as a value?
06:55:11 <oklokok> or do i misrememberize this all now is that it
06:55:15 <psygnisfive> why would you need something to allow that?
06:55:17 <psygnisfive> this is lisp
06:55:21 <psygnisfive> thats like.. built it
06:55:23 <oklokok> (i have never programmed common lisp)
06:55:27 <bsmntbombdood> oklokok: yes, that's the problem. functions should be values by default
06:55:33 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: yarr
06:55:47 <oklokok> when i first read about that, i was like "wtf, and lisp is supposed to be beautiful?!?"
06:55:55 <oklokok> but then i learned about scheme
06:56:04 <psygnisfive> scheme is beautiful :D
06:56:10 <oklokok> scheme i've actually programmed in!
06:56:24 <psygnisfive> ive got quite a large program in scheme right now :o
06:56:58 <oklokok> is it your parser that parses all that is cool?
06:57:05 <psygnisfive> generator, not parser
06:57:08 <psygnisfive> but yes
06:59:09 <oklokok> yes i mean your enflammolator
06:59:16 <psygnisfive> :P
07:01:02 <psygnisfive> 310 lines of code so far. its the longest lisp program ive ever written :O
07:02:07 <bsmntbombdood> did you used to have another nick?
07:02:14 <psygnisfive> me?
07:02:19 <psygnisfive> occasionally augur
07:02:44 <oklokok> psygnisfive: i think i've written a longer one.
07:02:55 <oklokok> my only real program in scheme
07:03:05 <psygnisfive> im actually porting this from javascript where i have the prototype version
07:03:20 <oklokok> hey that's insulting to scheme.
07:03:28 <psygnisfive> but the JS version uses lots of imperative behavior thats hard to do in scheme
07:03:30 <psygnisfive> whys it insulting? :P
07:04:05 <oklokok> if you wrote it in js first so you could then compile manually to scheme, it's insulting :P
07:04:37 <psygnisfive> no, i wrote it in JS first because i had a deadline and needed to have a quick and dirty UI
07:04:42 <oklokok> ah
07:04:49 <psygnisfive> and i had no real idea precisely how i was going to tackle the problem
07:05:15 <oklokok> well, i do admit functional programming often requires you to have a better idea of what you are doing.
07:05:17 <psygnisfive> it took like like three days to code the JS to get it right
07:05:21 <psygnisfive> now that i know what the requirements are, translating it into lisp is quite fast
07:05:40 <psygnisfive> actually it took more than three days, sorry
07:05:42 <psygnisfive> more like 6
07:05:42 <psygnisfive> but
07:05:46 <oklokok> lol
07:06:04 <oklokok> i wish i could code something for 6 days :P
07:06:14 <psygnisfive> well, you need to be passionate :)
07:06:30 <oklokok> i am passionate, but i get some kinda block after a few days.
07:06:31 <psygnisfive> i mean, im coding the demostration of my thesis project
07:06:32 <psygnisfive> so
07:06:40 <psygnisfive> this isnt a 6 day thing here
07:06:50 <psygnisfive> this whole project is a whole school year
07:06:56 <psygnisfive> so like 8 months
07:07:05 <oklokok> well if i had a deadline, i'd probably work 24/7.
07:07:09 <psygnisfive> and a lot of it is pure new research
07:07:21 <oklokok> i have deadlines for a few coding projects, but they are pure crap.
07:07:26 <oklokok> deadlines <3
07:08:40 <oklokok> unless you count what i did as a kid, and some games i've slowly enhanced for ages, oklotalk is probably my longest project.
07:08:59 <oklokok> and it took like 3 days (i could prolly do it in one day now)
07:09:19 <oklokok> as a kid i could work on a project for like a month
07:09:23 <bsmntbombdood> i haven't programmed for like 6 months
07:09:43 <oklokok> nowadays i can get the same results in a few hours, the problem is that's pretty much as far as my patience allows me to go
07:09:56 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: then what have you been doing?
07:10:01 <bsmntbombdood> nothing :(
07:10:18 <oklokok> that's what happens when you stop schoolz
07:10:28 <oklokok> i hope you're proud of yourself
07:10:30 <psygnisfive> oklofok: are you doing any research tho?
07:10:32 <bsmntbombdood> no it started before i dropped out
07:11:36 <oklokok> psygnisfive: about oklotalk? well i guess you could say i did before implementing it, making sure i knew what i was doing, but that was just a highschool project
07:11:40 <psygnisfive> i mean in general.
07:12:11 <oklokok> i started at the uni like two and a half months ago, i'm learning the basics atm.
07:12:37 <oklokok> == no.
07:13:19 <oklokok> bsmntbombdood: i was in the same situation, then i started university, and now i'm filled with energy, doing all kinds of small projects all the time.
07:13:31 <oklokok> university is awesome
07:13:44 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol.
07:13:49 <bsmntbombdood> ha yeah right
07:13:54 <oklopol> :)
07:13:55 <bsmntbombdood> that's what the told me about high school
07:14:00 <psygnisfive> well, doing research will give you a nice long project or two to work on
07:14:01 <oklopol> yeah, me too
07:14:05 <oklopol> and that was bullshit
07:14:31 <oklopol> high school was a waste of time, i could just as well have sat in a dark room for three years
07:15:11 <oklopol> psygnisfive: yes, i believe that. a thesis would be the kind of deadline that would get me working.
07:15:42 <oklopol> also now i'm stuck at irc because i have to stand up and go get me something to drink, and i don't feel like moving.
07:15:52 <oklopol> please be quiet for a while so i can't do it.
07:16:17 <oklopol> or "can", depending what "it" referred to, there
07:16:28 <bsmntbombdood> hmm i need something to drink
07:16:35 <psygnisfive> oklopol, whats your major??
07:16:48 <oklopol> i have no idea really, my english, and my overall speakingious capacities seem to be getting worser all the times
07:16:50 <oklopol> psygnisfive: cs
07:16:56 <oklopol> computer sex
07:17:00 <oklopol> *science
07:17:02 <psygnisfive> what do you want to research in cs?
07:17:15 <oklopol> psygnisfive: so many things i'm glad i don't have to choose right now.
07:17:30 <psygnisfive> well list a few of them :p
07:17:40 <oklopol> but probably combining logic programming and OO with ai.
07:17:52 <psygnisfive> hmm
07:17:54 <psygnisfive> AI is fun
07:17:59 <psygnisfive> i havent touched any of it, really, but i want to
07:18:39 <psygnisfive> im already working on a computational generative syntax, and presumably i'm also going to work on a parser for it as well, i guess
07:19:06 <psygnisfive> and having a language-to-semantics system would be useful for doing AI i think
07:20:19 <oklopol> language is fun too, even natural language, also digital logic, games, anything involving algorithms really...
07:21:30 <psygnisfive> well, if you really od find NLP/CompLing stuff interesting, I can tell you as much as I can dredge up about the topic
07:21:38 <oklopol> well i'm mostly thinking combining the imperative kinda OO with an AI so you can do prolog-style search (but preferably more structured and intelligentt) for parts you don't have any kinda explicit optimization or good ideas for.
07:21:43 <oklopol> *intelligent
07:23:14 <oklopol> psygnisfive: you could teach me phonetics at some point...... .... ........ .. ....
07:23:44 <psygnisfive> i could. to be honest, phonetics really needs physical presence so you can hear the sounds.
07:23:48 <oklopol> that's just for fun / general wanting not to suck of course, i'm not really especially interested in phonetics
07:24:04 <psygnisfive> phonetics isnt interesting
07:24:12 <oklopol> indeed it isn't.
07:24:12 <psygnisfive> sucking at phonetics is like sucking at spelling
07:24:18 <oklopol> yes
07:24:29 <psygnisfive> which is to say, it doesn't matter unless you care about spelling.
07:24:30 <psygnisfive> :P
07:24:37 <oklopol> right
07:24:41 <psygnisfive> i mean, if you want to do speech recognition/synthesis its important
07:24:47 <psygnisfive> but otherwise its irrelevant
07:24:53 <oklopol> well i prefer to take that as "you gotta know it, but it's not really that cool if you do"
07:25:19 <psygnisfive> actually you dont have to know it in order to do theoretical linguistics
07:25:36 <oklopol> psygnisfive: no, but you have to know it in order¨¨¨¨.
07:25:39 <oklopol> ...
07:25:41 <oklopol> lol
07:25:46 <oklopol> i'm just gonna leave it like that.
07:25:59 <psygnisfive> lolwut
07:26:00 <psygnisfive> anyway
07:26:13 <psygnisfive> ill teach you some syntax in the future if you want
07:27:54 <oklopol> you don't need to know phonetics for doing theoretical linguistics, but you do need it so you can learn a new language without having to wonder if you're even getting the basic structure of the sounds right.
07:28:07 <oklopol> and sure, i'd love to know more about syntax.
07:28:39 <psygnisfive> good. ill teach you some in the future. how about tomorrow or wednesday?
07:28:46 <psygnisfive> by tomorrow i mean 24 hours from now
07:29:03 <oklopol> not that i want to learn that many languages, i just feel retarded for not having the abilitiez.
07:29:20 * psygnisfive shrugs
07:29:26 <psygnisfive> syntax is cooler
07:29:31 <psygnisfive> than any individual language
07:29:31 <oklopol> oh dear, trying to allocate some actual time ;)
07:29:32 <psygnisfive> :P
07:29:43 <oklopol> gets much scarier than just talking about somewhere in the future
07:30:03 <psygnisfive> just be online this time tomorrow
07:30:50 <oklopol> psygnisfive: yes, but these are entirely different kinds of wanting to learn. there are things i want to know because they're practically useful (like learning to punch pizza delivery niggas), and there are things i want to know because they are conceptually pure and sexy
07:31:22 <psygnisfive> as a finn, i deplore you, never use "niggas". it just sounds wrong coming from your fingers.
07:31:43 <oklopol> how's that?
07:31:49 <psygnisfive> you're.. finnish
07:32:07 <psygnisfive> no non-american should use that term
07:32:31 <psygnisfive> it's like a non-french saying merde
07:32:35 <oklopol> they aren't actually negros, i don't know the term for that race, except the finnish ...derogatory term.
07:32:46 <oklopol> i've heard many finns say merde
07:32:51 <psygnisfive> yes, but even so
07:32:54 <psygnisfive> never say "niggas"
07:32:56 <psygnisfive> it just sounds weird
07:33:01 <oklopol> :)
07:33:17 <oklopol> i can try not to confuse you with it
07:33:27 <psygnisfive> you can't use it correctly
07:33:47 <oklopol> what's wrong about "pizza delivery niggas"
07:33:58 <oklopol> nothing i say
07:34:02 <oklopol> right i be.
07:34:08 <psygnisfive> there's so much baggage around it that appropriate comic use relies heavily on stuff that you, as a finn, cannot replicate
07:34:22 <oklopol> ...comic use?
07:34:27 <psygnisfive> you aint right, son, don't even think you are
07:34:34 <oklopol> oh, that's what you meant
07:34:54 <oklopol> i'm not a native speaker, so i can't learn to use it so that it's okay to say it?
07:35:04 <psygnisfive> and use of "niggas" non-comically is incredibly inappropriate
07:35:36 <psygnisfive> you're a finn. you're going to have a serious accent and distinctly finnish styles to your speech :P
07:35:37 <oklopol> psygnisfive: if you think i give a shit about that, you may confuse me with someone who cares about stuff like that.
07:35:47 <psygnisfive> hahaha
07:35:54 <oklopol> well i wouldn't use that irl.
07:36:14 <oklopol> and i wouldn't use it if i knew someone here would get mad, if they were active.
07:36:29 <psygnisfive> you shouldn't use it online either. the english speakers who use "niggas" as a general substitute for "guys" or similar are almost universally very low class
07:36:33 <psygnisfive> possibly even white trash
07:36:35 <oklopol> but if a word is inappropriate, and i don't see a reason why it should be, i use it just out of spite.
07:36:47 <oklopol> psygnisfive: yes, i know that
07:36:54 <psygnisfive> and you're not white trash
07:37:03 <psygnisfive> hence its unbefitting you
07:37:12 <oklopol> how do you know i'm not white trash?
07:37:15 <oklopol> !
07:37:23 <psygnisfive> you're finnish.
07:37:30 * oklopol is *manyfold* in things he is
07:37:33 <psygnisfive> finns can't be white trash
07:37:39 <oklopol> :<
07:37:43 <psygnisfive> only americans and canadians can be white trash
07:38:04 <oklopol> well then maybe i'm white trash born in a clean whiter's body :'<
07:38:24 <psygnisfive> brits can be chavs
07:38:28 <psygnisfive> and finns are just finns.
07:39:11 <oklopol> don't worry, i don't even know what white trash means
07:39:27 <psygnisfive> low-class whites
07:39:33 <oklopol> well right
07:39:38 <psygnisfive> but not just low-class
07:39:40 <oklopol> then i guess i knew it, but my point
07:39:43 <psygnisfive> like
07:39:53 <oklopol> was something
07:39:55 <oklopol> that i forgot.
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07:40:12 <psygnisfive> stupid, socially reprehensible, often assholish uncouth and disgusting white people
07:40:31 <oklopol> well i guess that doesn't describe me
07:40:56 <psygnisfive> the kind of person who wears white wife beaters, is thin but insists on growing a scraggly patchy beard or, even worse, mustache in order to prove his manliness
07:41:20 <oklopol> i would probably like to get a beard.
07:41:40 <psygnisfive> yes but you could probably grow a proper bear and it'd look appropriate on you
07:41:54 <oklopol> except prolly not for manliness, more for looking bohemian-ish
07:41:58 <psygnisfive> whereas lithe guys with patchy shitty beards look stupid
07:42:41 <oklopol> i don't really give a shit about gender, so i don't really aspire for manliness
07:43:37 <oklopol> that's why i have trouble seeing why people do sex changes, if i woke up one day with a woman-hole, i don't think my life would change at all (except, well, i might get famous)
07:44:14 <psygnisfive> people get sex change ops because they feel uncomfortable in their body, not because they have something against it.
07:44:45 <oklopol> well, i wouldn't feel uncomfortable in a different body, unless i was simply objectively less abled.
07:44:45 <psygnisfive> but that's a very cognitive/psychological/neurological thing thats more complicated than just that.
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07:44:53 <psygnisfive> neither would i
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07:44:58 <oklopol> yeah, that's what they all say
07:45:03 <psygnisfive> speaking of you not caring about gender
07:45:07 <oklopol> i don't buy that, because i don't feel it's my case.
07:45:21 <psygnisfive> so we're getting married 0.4 of a marriage ey?
07:45:22 <bsmntbombdood> where did this conversation come from
07:45:31 <psygnisfive> bsmntbombdood: does it matter?
07:45:33 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: out of me
07:45:40 <oklopol> but indeed, it doesn't matter
07:45:53 <oklopol> its only purpose is to distract me from doing my c++'s
07:46:08 <bsmntbombdood> what do you have to do in c++?
07:46:12 <oklopol> psygnisfive: hmm. i didn't agree to 0.4.
07:46:20 <psygnisfive> what number was it again?
07:46:25 <psygnisfive> 0.2? 0.3?
07:46:28 <psygnisfive> something ike that right?
07:46:56 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: simply stuff. five exercises, i'm in the third one, it's a simple dispatching thingie about what the "call most specific function" thingie means in c++.
07:47:27 <oklopol> it's also a pretty stupid exercise, the rest are much better
07:47:57 <oklopol> psygnisfive: yes it's not infitesimally small. i'm not sure what i was thinking :o
07:48:10 <psygnisfive> awesome
07:48:15 * psygnisfive kisses oklopol
07:48:17 <psygnisfive> so
07:48:19 <oklopol> okay now i really need to go
07:48:19 <psygnisfive> tomorrow this time
07:48:21 <psygnisfive> syntax
07:48:24 <psygnisfive> im off to
07:48:27 <psygnisfive> too*
07:48:31 <oklopol> ugh, you need like 0.3 to kiss me, mister no-no-pants.
07:48:31 <psygnisfive> night oklopol
07:48:31 <psygnisfive> <3
07:48:35 <oklopol> night.
07:48:42 <psygnisfive> oh pleas, ive got 0.3
07:48:45 <psygnisfive> ive got 1.0!
07:48:49 <psygnisfive> dont deny it
07:49:08 <oklopol> i'm not denying or nying anything
07:49:16 <psygnisfive> ;)
07:49:18 <psygnisfive> night
07:49:22 <oklopol> night.
07:49:28 <oklopol> or, well, early morning.
07:49:31 <psygnisfive> :p
07:49:49 <oklopol> -->
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07:52:50 * GregorR made a new generation of color matcher.
07:53:39 <oklopol> so basically you wanted to see them having some more of that sexual sex, and made them produce one whole generation of offspring in one night?
07:53:50 <oklopol> you're a sick, sick man
07:53:55 * oklopol is gone
07:53:56 <GregorR> Different meanings of the term "generation"
07:54:01 <GregorR> I /generated/ a neural network.
07:54:07 <oklopol> yes, my joke kinda relied on that
07:54:09 <GregorR> In fact, that involves 10000 generations of evolution.
07:54:24 <oklopol> hmm
07:54:26 <GregorR> Which is to say, some millions of sexual encounters.
07:54:31 <oklopol> i see, i see...
07:54:32 <GregorR> Between complete strangers.
07:54:36 <GregorR> Which happen to be neural networks.
07:54:47 <oklopol> so what you're saying is you're much, much sicker than i never even imagined?
07:54:52 <GregorR> YES!
07:55:13 <oklopol> oh dear... i should've just gone when i had the chance.
07:57:00 <oklopol> (*ever)
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08:01:51 <fizzie> You should maybe be producing some neural network porn tapes; I'm sure there's a market for that sort of stuff.
08:02:11 <bsmntbombdood> i'm dumb :(
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08:46:54 <oerjan> <GregorR> I'm writing Variations on the Annoying Nokia Theme
08:47:16 <oerjan> as a fugue?
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11:29:22 <nooga> fizzie: neural network porn tapes? :D
11:29:30 <nooga> how would that look like?
11:37:21 <fizzie> I don't know. Naked coefficients? Smooth curves in the activation functions?
11:37:30 <fizzie> Just a thought, really.
11:39:13 <ais523> fizzie: context?
11:40:36 <fizzie> ais523: GregorR has been making his neural networks have sex again. I just suggested something to profit from it.
11:40:41 <ineiros> fizzie: Did you check the xkcd thread about the "I call rule 34 of Wolfram's rule 34"-thing?
11:41:10 <fizzie> ineiros: No, I just wondered about it.
11:41:16 <fizzie> ineiros: Are the images work-safe? :)
11:41:26 <ineiros> At least some of them. An example: http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=8730
11:41:48 <fizzie> Heh.
11:55:33 <oerjan> Wolfram's rule 34 is unfortunately boring
11:55:55 <ais523> yes
11:56:38 <ais523> 34 = 0b00100010, which would imply that 101 and 010 produce 1 as output, other patterns produce 0
11:56:50 <ais523> so you're just going to get a load of vertical black stripes separated by at least 2 white stripes
11:56:53 <ais523> and no interesting result
11:57:09 <oerjan> essentially 01 travels one step left per step, everything else is zeroed
11:57:29 <ais523> no, it's centered isn't it?
11:57:32 <ais523> or have I misread the number?
11:58:05 <oerjan> 001 not 010
11:58:20 <ais523> ah, yes
11:58:32 <ais523> agreed, you'll get diagonal stripes from black with white to its left
11:58:58 <fizzie> That just means it's a bit more of a challenge to apply the other rule 34 on it, nothing more.
11:59:06 <oerjan> heh
11:59:32 <ais523> at least one version of the rules of the Internet I've seen have rule 35 as stating that deliberate attempts to invoke rule 24 fail
11:59:35 <ais523> *34
12:00:03 <oerjan> that's just stolen from Godwin's law i bet :D
12:00:28 <ais523> probably
12:00:39 <ais523> although I've deliberately invoked Godwin's law before, and it worked
12:02:53 * oerjan checks rule 35 in MCell
12:04:39 <oerjan> slightly more interesting.  seems to settle into a period 2
12:05:11 <oerjan> but uses a fair number of generations to do so
12:06:37 <oerjan> seems like there is a possible glider, but it tends to die out
12:06:42 <fizzie> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ElementaryCellularAutomaton.html doesn't have an utterly interesting picture of rule 35, but it sure beats 34.
12:08:06 <oerjan> it only shows evolutions starting with a single black pixel though
12:09:36 <oerjan> bah
12:09:53 <oerjan> i was doing 37 instead.  darn hex input
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12:11:08 <oerjan> oh that's actually twice as interesting
12:11:26 <oerjan> single pixels travelling left, longer blocks travelling right
12:12:03 <oerjan> or wait, it's an optical illusion of sorts
12:12:25 <oerjan> actually everything travels 1 right in 2
12:12:57 <ais523> oerjan: not quite, surely?
12:13:04 <ais523> alternating black and white wouldn't do that
12:13:32 <oerjan> 35?
12:14:16 <oerjan> well there seem to be some initial exceptions that die out there too
12:15:49 <oerjan> yes, there is also a stationary (0 in 2) checkerboard pattern
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14:38:21 <ehird> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/bug_finder_92913.html
14:39:05 <ehird> I'd totally pay one of  the $300 ones to see what happens
14:39:17 <ais523> surely it isn't worth that much?
14:39:18 <ehird> LOL the last bidder is "BusyBeaver"
14:39:21 <ehird> how i ronic
14:39:33 <ehird> ais523: oh it would be
14:39:42 <ais523> "You may not start working in this and any project before your bid is accepted. Any user who violates this policy may have their account permanently suspended."
14:39:51 <ais523> what a strange restriction!
14:40:21 <ais523> most of them seem to be people replying to every project with boilerplate without reading it
14:40:35 <ais523> the sad thing is, a /practical/ infinite loop detector is quite possible
14:40:39 <ais523> it won't work on every program, obviously
14:40:45 <ais523> but will catch many stupid logic errors
14:40:48 <ais523> might be interesting
14:40:50 <ehird> ais523: Congrats you got the joke!
14:40:50 <ehird> Also
14:40:51 <ehird> Been done
14:40:57 <ais523> I thought it would have done
14:41:07 <ehird> by microsoft
14:41:21 <ehird> http://research.microsoft.com/Terminator/
14:41:52 <ehird> (getacoder.com is codeword for indian-spammers-that-cannot-code-dot-com)
14:43:57 <ais523> Can I post contact information?
14:43:59 <ais523> Allowing the direct contact between buyers and sellers other than through the message boards could allow members to bypass the GetACoder system and in turn avoid the commission fees. Our charges are a fair price to bring software buyers and coders together. We do not allow the exchange of contact information.
14:44:18 <ais523> that website, as far as I can tell, is a way for people to make nonbinding agreements with each other whilst paying the website lots of money
14:44:26 <ehird> all getacoder-alikes are shams
14:44:32 <ehird> you are stating the blindly obvious
14:44:41 <ais523> not blindly obvious to everyone there
14:44:47 <ehird> no, it is
14:44:50 <ehird> because they're all scammers
14:44:54 <ais523> ah, ok
14:44:55 <ais523> on both sides?
14:44:58 <ehird> and the person who posted that question is joking
14:45:02 <ehird> see: the last line
14:45:04 <ais523> that might be fun to watch, actually
14:45:06 <ehird> which states the halting problem -exactly-
14:45:12 <ehird> also, the only other posters there are idiots
14:45:21 <ehird> e.g. someone wanted an OS better than windows that was also compatible with windows
14:45:22 <ehird> in a week
14:45:24 <ehird> for a few thousand
14:47:01 <ais523> "Herr T, Despite the fact that I died in 1918 you may find the following advice important. I would be happy to work on your project but you will quickly find that it is impossible, nay undecidable."
14:47:19 <ehird> haha, was that posted?
14:47:23 <ais523> yes
14:47:33 <ais523> by someone with the nick "GeorgeCantor"
14:47:42 <ehird> brilliant
14:47:47 <ehird> although he was trolled.
14:47:48 <fizzie> There's also KurtG.
14:47:51 <ehird> by the submitter.
14:48:05 <ais523> the submitter is AlanT
14:48:08 <ais523> another obvious clue
14:48:11 <ehird> exactly
14:48:16 <ehird> To state that another way, given a function f and input x, determine if f(x) will halt.
14:48:20 <ehird> that pretty much gives it away
14:48:23 <ehird> even without AlanT
14:48:30 <ais523> what do the non-troll posts there look like, I wonder?
14:48:31 <ehird> because
14:48:37 <ehird> ais523: i told you
14:48:41 <ais523> that fits my definition of trolling pretty well, but it's clever and funny trolling
14:48:53 <ais523> an art which I feared was lost to the Internet
14:49:02 <ehird> "I want OS called Blue Orb os. it must be compatible with windows Xp and Linux and also loko like OSX. Pls be responding quickly"
14:49:27 <ais523> I would find it so funny if someone told them to just get OS X + Parallels, and rename it
14:49:42 <ehird> :D
14:49:47 <ehird> or:
14:49:53 <ehird> OS X, and specify a method for porting applications
14:50:10 <ehird> or: Linux, with WINE, and an OS X copy skin
14:50:16 <ehird> for $3,000
14:50:34 <ais523> arguably Linux + WINE isn't fully compatible with Windows XP
14:50:38 <ehird> sssssh
14:50:39 <ais523> nor windows Xp for that matter
14:50:45 <ais523> the caps probably make a difference
14:51:05 <ehird> ais523: typical getacoder:
14:51:12 <ehird> i need to build up very good reverse auction website.
14:51:12 <ehird> the reverse auction script has to be with no bugs and it have to be customized for all my necessities.
14:51:12 <fizzie> Well, it didn't say *fully* compatible.
14:51:15 <ehird> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/reverse_auction_website_93182.html
14:51:25 <ehird> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/api_voip_93170.html
14:51:29 <ehird> to use the API provided by the following URL to create a voip service (click to call) SIP
14:51:29 <ehird> and sms services
14:51:38 <ehird> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/customize_existing_vb_gpl_89636.html
14:51:40 <ehird> Description
14:51:41 <ehird> We need to modify an existing GPL item to meet our specifications of an simple interface. This is an open source item. It is written in Visual Basic 6. The code is published under the GNU GPL. We do not wish to resell the code or remove any of the copyright notices. Our finished product will have the same open source notices and we will respect and show the same the copyright notices as the original. We like the existing product; it is just rough in appearance
14:51:46 <ais523> someone should post a project to make an exact replica of getacoder.com
14:51:51 <ais523> complete with stupid Terms of Use
14:52:37 <ehird> :D
14:53:02 <fizzie> $100-300 is a nice prize for resizing an image.
14:53:04 <fizzie> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/resizing_images_graphics_93117.html
14:53:09 <fizzie> Price, I mean.
14:53:25 <ais523> Resize this image and win $-200
14:53:28 <ehird> sign me up!
14:53:39 <ehird> ais523: lol
14:53:54 <ehird> Dear Sir, We are top ranked web Development Company from India having vast set of experience in development and designing of complex solutions. We have well trained and experienced developers and programmers specialized in different technologies. Please find the details with PMB along with Project execution plan. Thank you, Tech-Sters..
14:53:56 <ehird> web design?
14:54:01 <ehird> :D
14:54:16 <ehird> We develop applications on the following platforms: Windows, UNIX, NT Server.
14:54:20 <ehird> wat
14:54:41 <fizzie> "I need a wikipedia clone with contents and menus the same as Wikipedia. You will have to download the english wikipedia article database, create the website with all contents installed and similiar to wikipedia."
14:55:01 <ais523> haha: http://www.expertrating.com/jobs/Programming-jobs/Intercal-Programmer-jobs.asp
14:55:20 <ehird> yeah
14:55:24 <ehird> they scraped google, it seems
14:55:34 <ais523> "Boost your Intercal Programmer job prospects by enhancing your resume with an ExpertRating Online Certification. Since there are a lot of Intercal Programmer job seekers, extra credentials count. After passing your ExpertRating test, you will get an online transcript as well as a hard copy certificate mailed to you as proof of your Intercal Programmer skills"
14:55:38 <ehird> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/adult_video_site_93136.html
14:55:39 <fizzie> http://www.getacoder.com/projects/wikipedia_clone_contents_93101.html obviously wants to open an "with ads" version of wikipedia.
14:55:41 <ehird> I need an EXACT CLONE of pornhub.com, not a cheap looking joomla version or any other kind. I am looking for PROFESSIONALS ONLY, no amateurs! Also there will not be explanation in detail, I will give you my ideas, I will help in any way possible, but you will be responsible for looking up the smaller details – it is NOT hard, just go look at the site and do it, this does not require a detailed explanation if you already have everything given.
14:56:05 <ehird> under Features: "web 2.0"
14:56:08 <ehird> "Hack proof"
14:56:33 <ehird> http://kottke.org/04/07/my-new-policy
14:56:37 <ehird> we have a policy that we are hack proof
14:57:34 <ais523> actually, legal means are better than technical means to prevent certain forms of hacking
14:57:44 <ehird> ot
14:57:45 <ehird> it's not
14:57:53 <ehird> "we have a policy that you must not hack us"
14:57:57 <ais523> like copying closed-source programs, DRM nearly always gets cracked more or less straight away, but copyright still applies
14:58:00 <ehird> it is, "we have a policy that we are not being hacked"
14:58:10 <ehird> ISTTIOPTII
14:58:12 <ais523> haha, sounds like a Nomic legal fition
14:58:16 <ais523> *fiction
14:58:18 <ehird> I Say That Is Our Policy Therefore It Is
14:58:21 <ais523> "I say we aren't, therefore we aren't"
14:58:43 <fizzie> "You have this security hole." "No, we have a policy that we don't have security holes."
14:58:59 <ehird> "You're bankrupt." "No, we have a policy that we will never be bankrupt."
14:59:00 <fizzie> "But you do!" "No, sorry, policy."
14:59:15 <ehird> "You are dead." "Tell that to my policy."
14:59:42 <ehird> i love how everyone ignores the bid amounts
14:59:50 <ehird> $20-100? I'll put in a bid for $1,000!
15:06:30 <fizzie> Lots of "clone this website for me" requests.
15:09:15 <ehird> who wants to tell me the dotaction 1-100 koed
15:09:22 <ais523> ?
15:09:36 <ehird> ais523: a game me, fizzie and oklopol have been playing for the last few days
15:09:39 <ehird> it's awful and it's addictive.
15:09:50 <ais523> an online game, or an in-channel talk game?
15:09:56 <ehird> online; it's flash
15:10:08 <ais523> well, there were other options but those two seemed the most likely to me
15:10:15 <fizzie> [2008-11-23 15:12:06] < fizzie> Since ehird probably wants them codes, 086-754 gives the 1
15:10:18 <fizzie> 01-108 list, while 809-936 gives the 1-100 list.
15:10:22 <fizzie> Write those down already.
15:10:29 <ehird> thankees
15:10:32 <ehird> and maybe
15:10:32 <ehird> :D
15:10:42 <ais523> and I'm probably immune to that particular problem due to not having Flash nor wanting it
15:10:50 <fizzie> I think it was something like the fourth time you asked. :p
15:10:59 <fizzie> Away for some grocery-shopping and such now, anyway.
15:11:08 <ehird> ais523: it's a time-trially sort of game anyway
15:11:34 <ais523> it's not that simulate-a-runner-by-moving-the-individual-joints game, is it?
15:11:41 <ehird> nah.
15:11:55 <ehird> there's a bunch of dots and you have to collect them all before the time runs out by jumping around.
15:12:07 <ehird> and there's electric fences. and water. and dots that make you immune to fences. and mazes. and ...
15:12:48 <ehird> i think i'll have another stab at nethack after this.
15:13:22 <ais523> <jayCampbell> "still creating bottle 99 several days later"
15:13:30 <ais523> do we have a new record for slowest esolang interp?
15:17:39 <ehird> <ais523> at least one version of the rules of the Internet I've seen have rule 35 as stating that deliberate attempts to invoke rule 24 fail
15:17:43 <ehird> i saw an in-depth essay on that
15:17:45 <ehird> basically
15:17:57 <ehird> porn of it exists, but sometimes it hasn't manifested into bits on a harddrive yet
15:18:02 <ehird> that is, it exists, but you can't see it yet
15:18:17 <ais523> heh
15:18:20 <ehird> any rule 34 "challenge" fundamentally misunderstands it: it does exist, it's just a matter of it coming into this plane of existing
15:18:23 <ehird> it was great
15:18:41 <ais523> no, I agree with that theory, more or less
15:19:16 <ehird> we need to create a board of scholars for rule 34
15:19:30 <ehird> our job is to philosophize about it daily.
15:19:43 <ehird> before anyone says anything: ssh, stop ruining the joke
15:19:54 <ais523> ehird: you'll get loads of takers if you provide sufficiently many example cases
15:19:57 <ais523> possibly
15:20:10 <ehird> ais523: you did not read my last line.
15:20:11 <ehird> >:|
15:20:47 <ais523> I did, just chose to ignore it
15:20:49 <ehird> http://beardeddevelopers.com/
15:21:10 <ais523> it has its own website now?
15:21:23 <ais523> oh, something else
15:21:39 <ais523> do you know about the theory that languages become more or less popular according to how much of a beard their creator has?
15:21:44 <ehird> yes
15:21:45 <ais523> programming languages, that is
15:21:57 <ehird> do you have a beard? feather will take the world by storm
15:22:04 <ehird> although moreso if your beard is turing complete
15:22:25 <ais523> ehird: you not only know I have a beard, but have photographic evidence of the fact
15:22:38 <ehird> really?
15:22:41 <ehird> oh, on the wolfram site?
15:22:58 <ehird> anyway, a picture is not helpful in determining turing-completeness. run a program on your beard./
15:46:32 <ehird> I'm going to write a functional-style VM and write a prototype-based smalltalk-alike on top of it
15:46:33 <ehird> yay
15:50:35 <ehird> hmm
15:50:37 <ehird> rate this idea:
15:50:43 <ehird> the whole VM is based on completely immutable things
15:50:54 <ehird> it is impossible to change things, only add things, and garbage collection sorts the rest
15:51:12 <ais523> ehird: Feather
15:51:28 <ehird> not really
15:51:32 <ehird> it's the base vm i'm talking about
15:51:34 <ehird> the lowest level
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17:02:18 <Mony> plop
17:02:23 <ais523> pol
17:18:42 <Slereah> okloplop
17:19:15 <GregorR> okloyourMOM
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17:23:16 <oklopol> mmmee?
17:23:37 <Slereah> No.
17:23:40 <Slereah> You're oklopol
17:24:04 <oklopol> err
17:24:04 <ais523> Slereah: that's just persuading him to change nick...
17:24:07 <oklopol> hmm
17:24:07 <ais523> he's oklo.*
17:24:15 <oklopol> Slereah: wait i'll check
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17:32:33 <oklopol> http://forums.xkcd.com/download/file.php?id=8730 <<< this is disgusting, guys...
17:33:41 <ais523> oklopol: then why did you link us to it
17:34:15 <ehird> as a joke
17:34:25 <Deewiant> if you hadn't said that it's disgusting I probably wouldn't've understood the point of it
17:34:44 <fizzie> You would've if you'd read the context in which it was originally posted here.
17:35:00 <oklopol> ais523: i got that filth from here
17:35:02 <fizzie> Logreading: it's not just a good idea - it's the law!
17:35:24 <oklopol> it was for context
17:35:48 <Deewiant> meh, I'm on 25 channels and most logs aren't that interesting anyway
17:35:56 <ehird> ah, it's rule 34
17:35:58 <ehird> of rule 34
17:36:10 <ais523> oh, this is cellular automaton porn?
17:36:14 <ehird> yep
17:36:18 <oklopol> ais523: rule 34 on rule 34
17:36:24 <ehird> better would be to morph the starting states
17:36:24 <oklopol> yeah
17:36:25 <ehird> and then run them
17:36:26 <ehird> or something
17:36:28 <oklopol> ehird said it
17:36:29 <oklopol> anyway
17:36:39 <oklopol> weren't you here when that was discussed..?
17:36:53 <oklopol> well nm
17:45:00 <Slereah> lulz
17:45:00 <Slereah> Is rule 34 TC?
17:45:18 <ais523> Slereah: no, it's boring
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17:51:44 <GregorR> Rule 110 is the only one proven to be TC.
17:51:56 <ais523> and the reflections and color-inversions of it
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17:54:27 <GregorR> ais523: Well, obviously.
17:54:50 <GregorR> I have a rule 110 T-shirt 8-D
17:55:01 * ais523 remembers how immediately after Fermat's Last Theorem was proved for positive exponents, they proved it for negative exponents
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17:55:14 <ais523> once you have the proof for positing exponents, the proof for negatives follows pretty quickly
17:55:17 <ais523> *positive
17:55:49 <GregorR> I think the proof for inversions of a TC CA is probably much simpler :P
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18:12:30 <oklopol> 19:54… × ais523 remembers how immediately after Fermat's Last Theorem was proved for positive exponents, they proved it for negative exponents <<< you should be careful about your pronouns
18:12:47 <oklopol> i mean, that "they" could refer to the people who did the proof in the first place...
18:20:25 <GregorR> No, "they" refers to the alien invaders from Blernflim IX
18:20:46 <GregorR> They were nice enough to prove Fermat's Last Theorem for negative exponents while invading.
18:21:02 <oerjan> hm they must be real invaders because they've managed to keep their name out of google
18:21:33 <GregorR> They wiped themselves from human memory and record, BUT I REMEMBER CUZ ALL MY HATS ARE LINED WITH TIN FOIL
18:21:46 <oerjan> if it's not on google, it _must_ be a real conspiracy
18:22:41 <oerjan> lessee...
18:23:29 <oerjan> x^(-n) + y^(-n) = z^(-n) <=> (yz)^n + (xz)^n = (xy)^n
18:23:53 <oerjan> so trivial as expected
18:32:49 <GregorR> Yeah, but so's your face.
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23:25:17 <AnMaster> ais523, hi!
23:25:31 <AnMaster> ais523, saw the /msg?
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