00:00:07 ehird: indeed, and its a nonsensical question to ask :) 00:00:13 ehird: that was more or less settled for me when somebody said we probably perceive colors in the same way. 00:00:19 but it's such a -tempting- question to ask 00:00:26 I don't think it's nonsensical, but I think it's not well-defined. 00:00:27 its a classical philosophical mental experiment 00:00:28 i imagine you'd have to work hard NOT thinking about it :P 00:00:31 dennett actually discusses it 00:00:37 warrie: no it is nonsensical actually 00:00:40 its quite well defined 00:00:44 its just nonsensical 00:00:48 easy to believe sapif-whorf is false. i mean, if i know some complicated concept, and someone asks me how it works, i'll probably just say "read about it", because it's a big effort to translate anything nontrivial to pretty much any language except predicate logic 00:00:56 I'm not sure if it is - "What if you saw what I see as my blue as what I see as my red?" 00:00:59 what if everyone experienced the idea of "what if everyone saw colours different to me - i'd never know" differently? we'd never know 00:00:59 THat seems fairly sensical. 00:01:27 ehird: the question is sensical 00:01:31 the idea isn't. 00:01:33 psygnisfive: when you think of green, one of the things you think of is plants. Do blind people who don't know that plants are green also think of plants when they think of green? 00:01:35 psygnisfive: why not? 00:01:51 And yes, I did just make a blatant assumption about your brain. 00:01:54 warrie: blind people cant think of green, not like we do. 00:02:16 psygnisfive: so blind people cannot imagine colour? 00:02:19 yea 00:02:20 Can they visualize images like you and I? 00:02:24 no 00:02:31 psygnisfive: Even if they could see and then went blind? 00:02:37 They lose their ability to synthesize images in their mind? 00:02:38 well thats different 00:02:38 Ouuuuuuch. 00:02:51 Blind synaesthetes (that's the word, isn't it) can imagine color, surely. 00:03:06 warrie: actually no it depends 00:03:21 in order to envision any sort of color you need an operating visual cortex 00:03:30 specifically, certain subparts of the visual cortex 00:03:38 So you can imagine visuals without it but not colours. 00:03:40 THE BRAIN MAKES SUCH SENSE 00:03:42 some people can get brain damage that makes them color blind 00:04:03 not that they see in black and white, as such 00:04:16 they just lack any hue information in their cognitive representations 00:04:19 yeah 00:04:21 I read an article about that 00:04:22 it was weird 00:04:23 other people can lack brightness information 00:04:45 psygnisfive: so it's as much grayscale as it is blue, red, etc? 00:04:49 i.e. it's none of them? 00:04:52 it's just not a component? 00:04:57 yeah 00:05:00 I really wonder what it looks like for them. 00:05:04 its like HSB minus the HS 00:05:06 But I'll never know unless it happens to me... 00:05:15 you cant imagine tho 00:05:22 thats the thing about what we're talking about 00:05:28 it's funny that eyes really operate in RGB + brightness 00:05:31 thats why the original question is nonsensical 00:05:46 Why is the brain so complicated? :\ 00:05:49 :P 00:05:58 If I went blind due to a cataract, would my ability to think visually be completely unaffected, or enhanced, or something else? 00:06:04 it seems like the EXPERIENCE of red is _nothing more than_ the association between some activation patterns in the visual cortex and some activation patterns related to red things 00:06:11 nooga: RGB being cones, brightness being rods? 00:06:22 AFAIR yes 00:06:25 its a purely structural notion 00:06:50 what it means to experience red is nothing more than conjuring up associations with red things 00:06:55 i have a pretty separate place to see imagined things in 00:07:00 i have problem with my left eye 00:07:01 thats why it makes no sense to ask "what if someone experienced colors differently than me?" 00:07:02 btw... 00:07:08 also i can think them in the real world somewhere 00:07:09 because the associations are all the same 00:07:11 More interestingly, if I were blind from birth due to something wrong with my eyes, would I still have my visual thinking skills? 00:07:12 or rather the nerve 00:07:18 The visuals you get when closing your eyes and rubbing them a lot. 00:07:19 warrie: no 00:07:21 Explain them. 00:07:24 I have a few patterns... 00:07:29 if i'm a bit drunk i can sometimes make them prevent me from seeing behing them 00:07:29 Diagonally-ridged squares, repeating... 00:07:35 Swirling electricy lightning... 00:07:36 the sound sensors of your brain takes over the visual centers 00:07:38 (Yellow) 00:07:43 psygnisfive: would they be replaced with equivalent tactile thinking skills or something? 00:07:43 (my brain is more controlled when i'm drunk) 00:07:46 ehird: phosphenes? 00:08:00 thats just pressure activating the light sensors in your retina 00:08:08 * warrie ponders 00:08:09 umm 00:08:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Phosphene_artistic_depiction.gif Not like this... 00:08:12 It's far more subtle. 00:08:17 psygnisfive: Right, but 00:08:18 warrie: your audio-processing abilities get better 00:08:21 How come I have only like 00:08:24 3-5 patterns in it 00:08:27 and they repeat in cycles? 00:08:36 Another pattern is randomly coloured dots flickering about,. 00:08:45 ehird: who knows. it could just be your brains interpretation of the phosphenes 00:08:55 hey if you wanna experience something REALLY weird 00:08:58 try this: 00:08:59 right but why :P 00:09:01 psygnisfive: I can imagine feeling a solid of revolution just as well as I can imagine seeing one. I don't think I can imagine hearing one, though. 00:09:03 i observe something uncommon 00:09:07 look all the way to the left as far as you can 00:09:22 And touch your eye very gently? 00:09:31 then, with your right hand, press the right most part of your right eye, just next to the right side of your right orbit 00:09:32 yeah 00:09:45 What will happen? 00:09:46 Kind of scared. 00:09:48 :P 00:09:52 Can my right eye be closed? 00:09:52 you can actually see the finger impression 00:09:54 i have neurological problem with my left eye's nerve and sometimes i loose vision in that eye, but it happens in a funny way 00:09:56 yeah it can wrrie 00:09:59 warrie* 00:10:08 Ah, yes. 00:10:10 I see it. 00:10:14 not only that, but the image is in a part of your visual space that you NEVER SEE WITH 00:10:15 Lol, that's fun. How's that work? 00:10:15 first, i see everyhing a bit more vivid with my left eye 00:10:22 ehird: same as pressing your eyes when closed 00:10:27 pressure activates the photosensors 00:10:29 -!- trave_ has joined. 00:10:33 then i loose color depth 00:10:46 Cool. 00:11:01 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:11:10 heres something else you can do 00:11:11 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 00:11:11 and everything looks like in 16 color palette 00:11:13 close one eye 00:11:28 then 00:11:30 to the other eye 00:11:33 and then everything is gray and i can see only bright objects 00:11:44 press gently against your upper or lower eyelid in various places 00:11:54 the imagine in your visual field should shift 00:12:02 and then i can see only black&white flickering grain 00:12:04 nooga: so you're an eye-guy 00:12:17 you just had to get labelled huh? 00:12:17 not like you've looked in a different direction, but rather like someones put weird lenses over your eyes 00:12:30 Doesn't work/ 00:12:41 and then in reverse everything backs to normal 00:12:52 ehird: ey what? 00:12:58 psygnisfive: doesn't work for me 00:13:04 did you do it like i said? :P 00:13:05 wait 00:13:06 yes it does 00:13:07 psygnisfive: isn't that just my eye moving around? 00:13:07 + brain combines that black&white noise with the vision from the right eye 00:13:10 How many of you have ever been blind in part of your central vision? 00:13:16 none. 00:13:18 oklopol: yeah 00:13:18 well, not me 00:13:19 :P 00:13:24 you're just moving your lense around 00:13:31 just making the image appear in different places on your retina 00:13:39 psygnisfive: well of course it works. but yeah that looks pretty fun 00:13:51 the weird part is that the image moves but your eyeball doesnt, so your brain starts going "whoa whoa whoa wtf is all this" 00:14:07 That's happened to me at least twice, I think, as part of a migraine. 00:14:19 I have never had a migrane. Woo. 00:14:23 also interesting, but far more complicated: if you wear glasses that invert your field of vision 00:14:40 invert your field of vision?!? 00:14:43 initially you will be disoriented and itll be hard to interact with the world 00:14:49 ohh 00:14:50 yes, so that the ground is "up" 00:14:57 but after a week or so, youll operate normally 00:15:02 ha 00:15:04 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:15:08 psygnisfive: really? 00:15:11 how does that work 00:15:16 Kind of interesting, covering visual stimuli with the blind spots and seeing how your brain fills it in. 00:15:18 not only will your operate normally, but you wont be able to tell anything is off 00:15:35 right, i thought you meant like if someone wears inverting glasses because of some problem with eyes :D 00:15:40 no lol 00:15:46 but 00:15:48 but yeah i talked about that here a while ago 00:15:50 psygnisfive: are you sure? 00:15:51 ehird: it works because your brain just remaps all the associations 00:15:52 i really can't imagine doing that 00:15:53 i'm pretty sure ehird was here 00:15:58 horizontally AND vertically inverted 00:15:59 ehird: its been done actually 00:16:05 trave: any inversion. 00:16:13 horiontal, vertical, or a rotation, it doesnt matter 00:16:24 that's not very surprising 00:16:38 your brain just remaps the retinal inputs to fit the way it represents space 00:16:47 i mean, think about it, they're just wires in your brain 00:16:51 psygnisfive: will you see things "the right way" again? 00:17:03 well.. maybe. im not entirely sure. 00:17:05 I think I read about someone who was colorblind and also had synaesthesia. He saw yellows instead of reds and greens, but there were also some stimuli that caused perception of red and green. 00:17:07 but, what i'd like to know is whether you can learn to do the transition fast 00:17:12 i mean, consider this: the image on your retina is ALREADY upside down 00:17:18 my wires going from the left eye are fucked up and tend to loose bandwith 00:17:22 say you invert vision everytime things start to look normal 00:17:27 the surprising idea behind it is just that your brain can eventually rewire itself to automatically respond, without having to cognitavely decide, i want to go up, but i need to point down. 00:17:35 oklopol: probably not 00:17:37 psygnisfive: yeah I don't get that... so... 00:17:41 also interesting: when you take the glasses OFF 00:17:43 is space actually "upside down" to what we see? 00:17:44 i mean... IRL :P 00:17:47 things look upside down to you :) 00:17:50 ehird: no 00:17:57 that question is also nonsensical :) 00:18:04 brb i have to eat 00:18:06 psygnisfive: i'm pretty sure you're wrong, have to test that 00:18:25 you guys should read some dennett and ramachandran 00:18:27 its all very interesting 00:18:29 well 00:19:29 btw ehird: think of the question more like this: 00:19:44 you can rotate an imagine on a graph, and say its upside down 00:20:05 but what does it mean to rotate the graph itself? it means nothing. 00:20:18 which came first, the braincell or the galaxy? 00:20:21 the graph defines space, so it cant be rotated since rotation is a relation with regard to space 00:20:29 ehird: world -> lens -> image upside down -> sensor -> invert in brain -> image of the world as it is 00:20:34 ah, right. 00:20:47 so there is no "world as it is" in terms of up or down 00:20:59 there is just the topology of space 00:21:01 I disappear now. 00:21:05 TOMORROW: More brain fuckery. 00:21:07 and the brain only cares about the topological relations 00:21:07 I hope. 00:21:08 ciao ;D 00:21:36 but the gravity 00:21:53 have you seen those side-by photo comparisons between galaxies and braincells? they are like 2 peas in a pod. 00:22:04 trave: it's just happy coincidence 00:22:38 okay. :] 00:22:43 well, IMO 00:22:43 :) 00:22:51 bye, see you all tomorrow 00:22:59 goodbye 00:23:20 i saw a fractal that looked exactly like nebula 00:23:50 I was going to say that I can no longer think of a mathematical formula (as in those things they teach you individually in math class) that I can't visualize, but then I realize I've never really tried to visualize d(h/l) = (ldh - hdl)/l^2. 00:25:35 trave: i haven't seen link 00:25:53 warrie: stop with the calculus, calculus is borign 00:26:01 *borign 00:26:04 *borign 00:26:05 *boring 00:26:07 ... 00:26:54 -!- trave_ has joined. 00:27:28 trave_: i haven't seen link 00:27:47 guh? 00:28:00 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:28:07 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 00:28:08 ...side-by photo comp... 00:28:19 oh, i'll go see if i can track it down, one sec 00:28:26 thanks 00:28:30 i don't like googolin 00:28:32 g 00:28:45 nooga: like http://www.superliminal.com/fractals/bbrot/island200.500.1000bb.jpg? 00:29:44 http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/neuron-galaxy.jpg 00:30:54 trave: the main similarity is that there are stringy things with clumps along them. 00:31:04 hehe 00:31:12 exarctly 00:31:49 warrie: OR we're just part of some larger guy's brain? 00:31:53 everything down to the atomic level has way more gaps between "things" than there are things. 00:31:54 think about THAT 00:32:00 warrie: not that one 00:32:32 warrie: but quite simmilar 00:32:38 oklopol: I don't think brain particles slowly drift toward other brain particles due to gravity. :-) 00:33:50 every object has a gravity field 00:33:55 warrie: no, the interactions are faster. this guy thinks very slowly. 00:34:05 in our time scale 00:34:34 you know, actually we die because our brain collapses into singularity when we grow old. 00:34:46 nooga: yes, but intracranial gravity is overwhelmed by electromagnetic noise. 00:35:04 ah, right 00:36:14 * warrie ponders gravity at small scales 00:36:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3AmC9tNDro 00:37:11 "Pickover attractor 10 mln vertices 30 FPS 00:37:14 I've decided that at small scales, in a liquid, gravity is equivalent to the pressure gradient it causes. 00:37:39 i wonder on what machine 00:40:13 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 00:40:15 again 00:40:18 2 o'clock 00:40:23 almost 00:40:48 i guess i'll just fall asleep immediately 00:40:52 g night 00:40:59 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 00:44:44 back desu yo 00:44:47 gravity? 00:44:50 at small scales?! 00:44:51 DONT DO IT! 00:47:15 have they fixed the LHC yet? when are they gonna collide me some particles? 00:47:23 trave: no. 00:47:31 they're going to do their first collision early sprinh 09 00:47:51 that leak was a huge setback 00:47:56 yes it was. 00:48:19 a lot of the setback is safety checks tho 00:48:39 i mean, if containment fails during a run, thats really bad 00:49:01 and you'll probably kill someone 00:49:03 in attempt to prevent other crazies like that girl who committed suicide cause she thought we were all going to be sucked into its black hole? 00:49:13 no 00:49:22 im in support of people killing themselves if they're that stupid 00:49:34 hopefully she did this before she had little baby idiots, yes? 00:49:48 wasnt it like.. some indian girl? 00:49:51 im not sure 00:50:06 geez, why not just wait until IT kills you, sheesh 00:50:28 trave: exactly 00:50:32 well 00:50:34 it depends 00:50:44 i mean, obviously SHE was stupid and didnt think about that 00:51:12 bbut if she knew why black holes were fucked up, it makes more sense to kill yourself now than be sucked into one 00:51:23 but if you understood that much about black holes, you wouldn't be worried about the LHC. 00:51:29 I personally think that the transition into a black hole is without effect to the one experiencing it 00:51:40 well you're wrong 00:51:41 you'd die 00:51:44 very quickly, actually 00:51:53 in the coolest way imaginable. but also the most horrifying. 00:52:04 its the observer who witnesses the "death" 00:52:10 no 00:52:14 its the dier. 00:52:22 the observer probably never would witness it 00:52:25 due to time dilation 00:52:31 http://fora.tv/2008/02/19/Neil_DeGrasse_Tyson_Death_by_Black_Hole 00:52:41 hm, just making outlandish assumptions :] 00:52:52 (in reference to me) 00:53:02 you're also not familiar with relativity ;) 00:53:32 time slows down with greater gravitational effects. so from the outside, someone closer to the black hole moves slower 00:54:47 well if the point of relevance is my conscious, perhaps the matter around me being visually stretched into oblivion to an outside observer is painless? 00:55:14 but you'd be stretched to oblivion along with it 00:55:17 watch the video :p 00:56:14 listening now.. 00:57:08 this guy, tyson, is like an astrophysics popstar 00:57:17 i just dont particularly believe that black holes are as destructive as they are labeled, there is one at the center of every galaxy. :D 00:57:40 he was a guest star on stargate recently 00:57:46 well 00:57:46 its a creative force via its "destructive" nature. 00:57:55 destructive as they're labeled by COMMON FOLK 00:58:02 or destructive as labeled by PHYSICISTS? 00:58:23 because the commonfolk think that black holes will just suck anything and everything in to them period end of story 00:58:32 for instance 00:58:38 if you said to a normal average person 00:58:50 i guess myself being a simple minded individual, i likely relate to that level of thought 00:58:50 that the sun is going to be compressed into a black hole 00:58:53 they would freak out 00:59:03 and say omg we have to stop it, the earth will get sucked in and we'll all die! 00:59:17 whereas a physicist would say, omg we have to stop it, the earth will freeze over without the heat from the sun 00:59:32 because the physicist knows that the gravity from the sun-cum-blackhole would be unchanged 00:59:46 whereas the lay person things that the gravity will all of the sudden because infinitely unstoppable 01:00:56 this is why people are worried about black holes at the LHC 01:01:06 and at Brookhaven before that 01:01:21 they think that the moment you create a black whole of ANY size, whoomf, everything gets sucked in 01:03:18 yea. 01:05:18 also, i just messaged him on facebook asking him about whether or not naked singularities were blackholes or not 01:05:38 :D 01:05:46 we is friends on facebook. :D 01:06:15 cool. :] Ive run across one of his videos before, forget what it was about though 01:07:32 this asteroid scenario hes talking about is creepy :D 01:07:44 :) 01:08:41 o 01:08:50 oko 01:10:38 "we got peeps who do this" 01:10:54 what are your thoughts on illuminati/skull and bones type brotherhoods? 01:10:55 "peeps... if you're over 30... means people.. forgive me" 01:10:55 XD 01:10:58 i love NdGT 01:14:04 * oklopol can not has sound :< 01:14:09 must watch tomorrow that. 01:15:12 i've been unproductive all week :< 01:17:16 same here 01:17:23 its a holiday week 01:17:52 holidays make really no diff to me 01:18:08 i don't go to lectures that regularly 01:18:21 me either, other than an additional reason for my laziness 01:19:04 holidays are no excuse not to study 01:19:12 study / create 01:19:28 its true, i just look for excuses 01:19:29 *procreate 01:19:50 yeah i guess that's pretty common 01:20:04 in fact, i only said that because i wanted you to tell me you're doing nothing productive either. 01:20:08 :) 01:21:06 i've recently been pretty scared by the fact i'm probably not the worlds best at everything i'm good at. 01:21:35 that's a very scary thought 01:21:43 that there's a human being out there that owns me. 01:21:55 everyone has nitches of talents, i think its more important to learn how to leverage on eachothers strengths, instead of everyone trying to perform as one man bands 01:22:37 the ones that own us are the bankers via our bank account balances 01:22:58 trave: no no you got it all wrong, life is all about being the superior individual averaged over relevant talents for some definition of relevant. 01:23:10 and how easilly willing we are to agree to wildly unfair fees and rates 01:24:13 trave: by own i mean pwn 01:24:30 ah, yes. 01:25:10 i am innerly accutely aware of my pwndness, but outwardly have to present myself to my boss as one who pwns 01:25:41 talent is highly bound to time. 01:26:20 but time and effort are ruled by interest and entertainment 01:26:26 pwnage inside a small group like a company is trivial, the hard part is being better than all the savants with some kinda mental issues out there. 01:27:44 i like to imagine that after death, existing as higher conciousness, we are able to process some crazy statistics on history 01:28:19 i envisioned something like that as a kid 01:28:22 there will be like a ubergoogle, that you can type: who got laid by the most chicks with freckles 01:28:38 heh 01:28:59 i've only been laid by a few chicks with freckles :| 01:29:04 should probably aid that 01:29:17 trave: are you by any chance a girl with freckles? 01:29:29 no. 01:29:36 damn. 01:29:40 for a second there i had a great idea 01:29:42 but nm 01:30:12 -!- trave_ has joined. 01:30:18 err 01:30:26 man, my wireless routers signal is so weak 01:30:29 you were the one that came in today for some other meaning of "esoteric"? 01:30:33 yes i notice 01:30:46 -!- trave has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:30:56 -!- trave_ has changed nick to trave. 01:31:02 yea. 01:31:37 i have a pretty good memory for nicks, but it's somewhat vague for new ones. 01:31:56 actually a better memory for nicks than real names 01:32:53 so 01:32:58 have you ever had like a math course 01:33:19 where something was told without a clear definition, and then there's a question about it that's trivial, and just requires a formal proof. 01:33:36 but you can't be formal, because that part wasn't given a formal definition 01:34:27 (or at least you hadn't read the materials that well, and are pretty sure there wasn't a good definition somewhere!) 01:35:41 my level of math was highschool algebra 01:35:52 i hate proving trivial things, seems like such a waste to do the manual labor of finding a proof in the language the problem is given in, when my intuitive gadgets are clearly superior 01:38:08 trave: mine is that plus some additional calculus, incidetally calculus is so uninteresting i don't really care for knowing it. 01:38:14 *incidentally 01:39:40 i'm running out of random things to say 01:39:51 probably should retry sleeping or program something 01:40:28 is calc mainly for like statistical processing? im not even really aware of all the different types besides geometry 01:41:20 its like ways of finding out levels of force needed to push a block over another block, an junk? 01:41:23 well actually analysis, which afaiu is a superset of calculus; basically about infinite continuous things. 01:41:45 and what it's for is not a well-formed question 01:41:52 it's a set of concepts 01:42:00 yea 01:42:29 i have no idea about applications for physics 01:42:53 the complexity of all potentials baffles my mind sometimes to the point where it feels almost pointless because of all the points. 01:42:57 well, i could probably do quite well with intuition, but i don't actually know anything. 01:43:16 "all potentials"? 01:43:33 also nice use of "point" there 01:44:20 hrm, like needing to juggle too many balls i guess rather, i need to fine tune my target items for attention, i feel too scattered sometimes that i dont take care of anything instead. 01:44:58 and chat on IRC all day instead of working :D 01:45:00 are you referring to subjects having too much content to be learnable, or wha 01:45:36 um just abstractly as always, more really about my lifes responsibilities, like taxes, and insurance and rent, and projects, and etc. 01:46:14 really there isnt all THAT much, its just laying them out on a scale, and only observing one at a time, instead of being overwhelmed 01:46:56 taxes, insurance and rent take, taken together, about -0.00% of your time. 01:47:18 (negative sign and the floating point representation for emphasis) 01:47:41 i have a tendency to let things slide because there is too much to do, where instead, regardless of what item i pick up, picking up something is infinitely more productive. 01:48:05 the beast feeds on negligence 01:48:08 yes, true 01:48:33 what i do is i don't give a shit if things get done, i just take a random thing and start doing it. 01:48:56 of course only refers to studying and other mental exercise, or some kinda project for the fun of it. 01:49:00 captialism counts on the public's laziness, to bind them into the "punishing" contract 01:49:08 my life doesn't really contain much of that real stuff 01:49:19 as is my life. 01:49:48 but im finding it to be more critical to resolve my past neglects before the axe comes down. :] 01:50:32 which in itself feels pointless, because money is so arbitrary, like this whole bailout fiasco, why do they get bailed out for designing such a self defeating model of commerce? 01:50:32 i don't care about the past/future 01:51:05 trave: hard to say, i don't watch pokemon 01:52:07 anyway, money isn't really something one needs to work for, i mean, the amount of money you get from one month of working will pretty much pay for a whole year. 01:52:13 i think that there are some deep rooted secret brotherhood methodologies of fear and control of the ignorant 01:53:31 used by whom? 01:53:36 money is only a frustration in my life, the girl i married burns it, and i am left with the shame of not having enough to pay to my owners 01:53:56 the men behind the curtains. 01:55:09 much like a movie director or whatever, they are not the puppets speaking the eloquent lines of verse to the public, they are calling some carefully planned moves in the chess match of world power, 01:55:11 i'm pretty ignorant, and i'm sure as hell controlled by no one. 01:55:36 not being able to pay is not a shame if you have a reason you yourself deem good enough. 01:57:11 applies for anything really, no need to feel something if it's not useful. 01:57:26 controlling the masses through Gold, Oil, and Drugs, you don't have to imprison the people in physical walls. 01:57:40 in G.O.D. we trust 01:57:49 i don't know what "controlling the masses" means. 01:58:03 but that's clever, probably a well-known backronym? 01:58:49 anyway, i don't think i'd be "controlled" in any way were i incarcerated. 01:59:07 in fact that would make my life more free, right now i'm controlled by my loose network of friends. 01:59:50 control over the wallet, stomach, and mind? 02:00:01 you can't control mind 02:00:07 religion is control of the mind 02:00:20 controlling wallet and stomach is only control if you care about those 02:00:21 not everyone is trapped in that, but MANY i know are. :] 02:00:22 well yeah 02:00:35 brb 02:00:46 but religious people are idiots, in my eyes they are an artifact of the past. 02:01:23 and while i do care about how much money i have, if i felt i had little money, i would stop caring. just like i like moving around, but if i lost my legs i'd just do more thinking. 02:01:33 ultimately it's only the mind that is needed for happiness. 02:01:55 well, not sure i could do without any IO :o 02:02:07 guess i'm not perfect in that way 02:02:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:02:15 hi Slereah 02:02:17 who are you? 02:03:24 i wish there were more channels i could rant on. 02:03:41 but i just have finnish chans where i wouldn't get kb'd, and those are asleep :| 02:09:45 ive got a headache and really need to close this laptop. it was a pleasure chatting with you fellas though 02:09:49 i will be back. 02:09:53 have a good night 02:11:51 nights. 02:12:43 maybe you'll even see a short conversation about esolangs if you hang around long enough. 02:12:51 hmm, i'll try sleeping too -> 02:13:49 <- 02:13:51 speaking of which 02:14:01 i just had an epiphany about noprob 02:14:04 cut! :DD 02:14:09 basically 02:14:20 i removed probability variables, because they made no sense. 02:14:32 now, all variables have a "probability" 02:14:57 meaning "the portion of models for the 3sat instance where that variable is true" 02:15:13 this, and only this can be used for conditional things 02:15:27 the problem is, when you add new clauses, all probabilities change 02:15:55 but, i could just have prolog's cut, or a similar thing, doesn't really fit the paradigm, but it's very practical, and prology :P 02:16:31 really all it needs to do it fix probabilities. 02:17:30 which will get pretty complicated if you use those variables in further clauses, because other variables will have their probabilities calculated on the probabilities of the fixed variables, instead of the assumed 50% chance for (as yet) undefined variables 02:18:18 probably not making any sense, but i'm pretty sure i have something that works right here, so maybe you'll be seeing specs in like five years from now? may be a bit optimistic 02:18:20 but anyway 02:18:27 sleep, hopefully no ideas this time -> 02:19:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:20:29 Hmph. I just went to the web site of the Triple Nine Society. It said this: "Hey, come and join us! We have smart people, and you're smart enough to join! Oh, wait, you're not 18 or older? Go away." 02:27:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:30:42 -!- trave has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:35:58 hmm 02:36:01 what a peculiar tea 02:36:49 Is it made from tree bark? 02:37:01 no 02:37:04 its called russian caravan 02:37:16 its smokey 02:37:27 like.. smoked sausages 02:39:16 i joke that its called "russian caravan" because they get it from the back Evgeny's town-and-country 02:45:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:05:01 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:06:04 -!- puzzlet has joined. 03:34:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ayyPzuHGNU 03:57:35 -!- psygnisf_ has joined. 04:00:05 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive_. 04:13:38 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:14:44 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:16:39 -!- Asztal has joined. 04:26:24 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:27:48 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 04:27:51 fresh off the press http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:JayCampbell/smatiny.rb 04:28:18 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:31:00 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:36:54 JSMIPS can pwd 8-D 04:39:16 you know 04:39:21 the greatest testament to ubuntu 04:39:38 is that ive installed it on my grandparents computer and they've been using it for 5 months now without any issues. 04:41:09 -!- psygnisfive_ has changed nick to psygnisfive. 04:41:51 -!- warrie has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:49:28 # /hello 04:49:28 Hello, world! 04:50:02 observation: natural language is the programming language of the human mind 04:50:10 and it looks a lot like intercal 04:54:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:55:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:58:35 That's not an observation. 04:58:39 It's a postulation. 05:01:13 yes well 05:01:56 And so's your face. 05:14:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:22:17 Anybody want to help me make an AJAX filesystem for JSMIPS? 05:39:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:56:38 ajax to where 05:57:13 $YOUR_FAVORITE_WEB_SERVER 05:57:54 i can help on the server end 05:58:09 you want maybe php for ubiquity 05:58:54 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 05:58:55 maybe permission metadata stored in a yaml dotfile 05:59:26 or JSON'd outside the served document root 06:07:01 No permission data necessary. 06:07:08 I just want an entire directory to be readable. 06:07:10 (No write) 06:10:21 oh then you don't need a server end 06:11:40 ORLY? 06:11:49 I thought AJAX couldn't read binaries. 06:14:13 uuencode it 06:14:34 will you know the filenames beforehand? 06:14:56 it will be hard to parse directory listing output from joe random web server (if indexes are even turned on) 06:15:21 so you'd want a php, or a file-of-files, or hardcoded paths 06:16:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:20:46 which is why gopher is a better choice! 06:25:06 -!- Asztal has quit ("."). 06:35:53 lol 06:50:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:50:46 -!- ehird has changed nick to Sgeo. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:32:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 09:18:31 -!- Corun has joined. 09:24:03 -!- jix has joined. 09:37:49 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 10:05:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:07:42 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:07:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 10:10:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:19:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:25:56 -!- jix has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 10:32:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:37:56 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 10:50:36 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:36:24 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:57:41 -!- nooga has joined. 13:00:28 ;9 13:09:18 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to ehird. 13:24:21 i really want a nextcube and a bebox. 13:24:24 :| 13:25:02 obsolete, awesome technology is... um, awesome. 13:26:25 also, i could run the original WorldWideWeb app. 13:26:30 on a nextcube,. 13:26:44 i'd need a slick black and white crt for the true experience, though :-P 13:56:02 lawl 13:56:36 i always liked those green phosphor displays 13:56:48 or those simple, orange lcds 13:59:05 actually, the only pretty CRT i've ever seen = next to a nextube 13:59:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Premier_serveur_Web.jpeg 14:04:12 what is that machine? 14:13:22 -!- Asztal has joined. 14:13:31 nooga: a NeXTcube 14:13:41 on which the first browser was first coded 14:13:50 it's the company steve jobs made when he was fired from apple 14:14:08 modern os x is based on NeXTStep with a kinky love affair of other unixes and older macs 14:14:14 oh 14:14:24 the comp in that machine is the first web server 14:14:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTstation.jpg 'nother one 14:14:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTSTEP_desktop.jpg nextstep 14:19:54 looks like blackbox 14:20:17 the WM? 14:20:23 it predates blackbox, iirc 14:20:30 late 80s - early 90s 14:20:33 but yeah 14:20:36 it does kind of look similar 14:21:44 BeOS is also awesome and defunct... it's like the amiga, except modern and better... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BeOS_Desktop.png ... and the bebox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeBox 14:21:47 shame they went defunct 14:21:52 their browser's errors were haiku :-) 14:23:29 yeah 14:23:36 BeOS has cool API 14:24:27 when we were trying to write distributed RTOS we almost copied BeOS API 14:25:02 of course, the best computer is the smalltalk-based computer i will one day [not] make ;) 14:25:10 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:26:04 smalltalk based computer? :D 14:26:42 how would that look like? 14:26:59 nooga: like a computer, i guess :) Smalltalk is basically an OS... 14:27:12 just doesn't work well as the only one, obviously, because it's not used for that 14:27:19 still, it wouldn't be especially hard 14:27:21 and it would be nice 14:36:08 but you mean a CPU specially built for smalltalk as a smalltalk computer? 14:36:13 or just a smalltalk OS 14:36:16 for PC 14:36:16 both 14:36:26 a machine built for smalltalk running a specially-crafted smalltalk OS 14:36:32 it would be awesome. 14:36:58 FPGA and set to work :D 14:37:16 bah, it was awesome until you talked about work 14:37:17 :-) 14:43:47 what is this whole smalltalk about? 14:43:50 how does it work? 14:59:11 ha, running haiku in qemu 15:09:50 nooga: smalltalk invented quite a few things and perfected others. 15:10:01 it invented model-view-controller in its original GUI 15:10:13 it perfected message-sending object orientation, from simula, except way better 15:10:29 it perfected a blend of simplistic syntax yet easy to read - 15:10:43 syntax on a postcard: 15:11:37 nooga: http://web.archive.org/web/20080129122256/http://www.esug.org/whyusesmalltalktoteachoop/smalltalksyntaxonapostcard/ 15:11:42 [[they reorganized their site :\]] 15:11:54 and also 15:12:09 it just about perfected automatic and manual refactoring, and code editing 15:12:11 with its object browser 15:12:14 no files 15:12:20 it's a great, great language and system 15:12:57 also 15:12:59 finally 15:13:06 nooga: it invented complete access at almost every leve 15:13:06 l 15:13:15 you can view the source to all methods on Object, add them, change them 15:13:21 some are optimized out, e.g. ifTrue:/ifFalse: 15:13:25 and some have in them 15:13:28 but that's very few 15:16:19 that example is undecipherable 15:16:45 nooga: that example isn't meaningful 15:16:48 it's just all the syntax 15:16:49 also 15:16:52 the first bit is a comment 15:17:04 anyway 15:17:09 it's a bit obscure because it's not very useful :-P 15:17:15 the point is, tohugh 15:17:19 that that is -all- the smalltalk syntax 15:17:23 except for special stuff like primitives 15:19:31 rotfl 15:19:37 Squeak is developed by Disney 15:23:48 nahhhhh 15:23:51 used to be 15:24:04 its an open source thing now 15:24:13 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 15:25:30 peculiar 15:25:34 ooks like a toy 15:25:56 the default gui is ugly. 15:25:59 it can be improved massively. 15:26:11 i read about smalltalk and it's features 15:26:26 and it turns out that ruby has almost all of them too 15:26:33 not the important ones 15:26:39 it basically borrows some of the object model 15:26:56 but it does not have the complete object garden or the immensely powerful environment 15:27:02 or, indeed, a lot of the elegance 15:27:06 since ruby is a lot more "normal" 15:27:37 i like ruby. but it can't touch smalltalk 15:30:15 hee 15:30:42 modern smalltalk is a bit of a walled garden, but it's ok 15:30:54 you can access the network and the filesystem, maybe even hook up to devices 15:30:58 from there you can basically import stuff in 15:31:17 right now i'm deciding what the best way is to get smalltalk to call a block on incoming mail 15:31:26 prolly something with comsatd 15:34:03 is smalltalk needed in the industry? 15:34:55 like what? it is used quite a lot by companies, esp. in the financial industry for some reaosn 15:34:57 *reason 15:35:02 and it's resurging in popularity a bit 15:35:12 quite a bit thanks to the seaside continuation web framework - http://seaside.st 15:36:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:44:32 leeks very web2.0-ish 15:44:58 not really 15:45:05 just the site does 15:45:37 it basically came from deliberately doing the opposite of everyone else: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaside_(software)#Philosophy_of_Seaside 15:47:00 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:48:29 -!- espernet has joined. 15:49:04 is it not MVC? 15:49:56 NOPE. 15:49:58 err 15:50:00 capslock 15:50:01 XD 15:53:37 CAPSLOCK IS CRUISECONTROL FOR COOL 16:05:45 CRUISECONTROL? 16:09:55 KROOZKONTROL 16:18:44 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 16:49:22 Hm. 16:49:35 The Orc manual has BNF syntax. 16:49:40 I liek it 16:50:21 String: "orc", "ceci n'est pas une |" 16:50:23 Heh 16:56:50 JSMIPS has ls 8-D 16:57:05 Admittedly, 'ls' isn't the most impressive of utilities ... 16:57:06 BUT STILL 16:58:27 Next step: bash. Then ... THE WORLD 16:59:10 What, even that really smelly country? 17:00:00 Psssst ... this is where you're supposed to say "You know the one I mean." 17:00:31 Only if I was a nerd quoting Futurama! 17:00:35 Which... I guess I am 17:02:08 GregorR: link 17:02:26 ehird: Not uploaded yet X-P 17:02:27 for everyone else: http://codu.org/jsmips// 17:02:40 hey GregorR, does it run plan9 yet???? 17:02:53 JSMIPS IS AN OS IT DOES NOT RUN OSES *slap* 17:03:03 GregorR it is not a good os it needs plan 9 power. 17:03:15 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:03:22 btw, does backspace work yet 17:03:22 >_< 17:03:26 or ctrl-h 17:03:27 or ANYTHING 17:03:50 * ehird forkbombs his browser. 17:03:55 heh. 17:03:56 it halts. 17:04:14 It's a halting problem 17:04:53 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:02 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:11 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S face. 17:05:14 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:05:23 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S MOM'S face. 17:05:29 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your DAD'S face. 17:05:39 Yeah, but so's your MOM'S MOM'S MOM'S face. 17:05:46 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your DAD'S MOM'S DAD'S face. 17:06:04 My dad's mom's dad is dead D'8 17:06:06 *sobs* 17:06:14 -!- espernet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:06:27 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:06:52 Ohhhhhhhhhhhh 17:06:54 Well played. 17:06:57 GregorR: Yeah, but so's your face. 17:07:22 -!- trave has joined. 17:07:57 heylo trave 17:08:14 hey ther :] 17:25:40 ehird i don't know 17:25:47 i said that in ##nomic. 17:25:49 but, darn. 17:26:00 o 17:29:02 GregorR, nice work on jsmips, yes I know it isn't an emulator, but an OS emulator rather 17:29:18 as in emulating a linux(?) system on MIPS 17:29:30 It is an emulator :P 17:29:45 It's emulating the MIPS chip, just not a full MIPS system. 17:29:47 GregorR, so the goal is to to run any linux binaries for MIPS? 17:29:52 No. 17:29:55 no? 17:30:01 Just vaguely UNIXish programs compiled for JSMIPS. 17:30:19 GregorR, oh not real mips binaries? 17:30:27 Real MIPS binaries for a fake MIPS system. 17:30:29 also what is the compiler you use? 17:30:33 ah 17:30:41 GCC 17:30:59 GregorR: nice monologue 17:31:02 GregorR, what about porting wget to it? 17:31:11 or is network stack too hard in js? 17:31:25 A true network stack would be impossible. 17:31:30 well yeah 17:31:33 (Seeing as that JS can't network) 17:31:38 I was planning on making an ajax.h 17:31:42 hm 17:31:45 ok 17:31:53 'ts about the best I can do network-wise. 17:31:56 GregorR, can't you run javascript free standing? 17:31:58 Networked apps really aren't my goal :P 17:32:00 outside a browser 17:32:04 GregorR: you can do proper network stacks 17:32:11 I'm pretty sure there is some such thing 17:32:12 make it ajax to a proxy php script 17:32:14 Yeah, but I don't know if such implementations have (compatible) network stacks. 17:32:16 that does proper tcp/ucp 17:32:18 ehird: Blech :P 17:32:20 and uuencode stuff either way 17:32:22 kjscmd? 17:32:24 GregorR: yeah but 17:32:26 you could run irssi 17:32:28 and firefox 17:32:30 yep 17:32:30 just 17:32:32 think about it. 17:32:35 seems to use konqueror 17:32:47 ehird: Yeah, I'll be running Firefox in JS any day now :P 17:32:50 GregorR, also what did ehird said? he is on ignore 17:33:06 AnMaster: You're on his /ignore too, enjoy this disjunct discourse. 17:33:07 GregorR: YES YOU WILL 17:33:13 true 17:33:24 AnMaster is a fat stinky poo poo who cannot see this 17:33:28 ^ 1337 h4x0r skillz 17:33:35 oklopol: what do you mean, cheesecake? 17:33:35 GregorR, so what was the issue then? 17:34:04 Which issue? 17:34:28 that made you say "blech" 17:35:02 GregorR, I can't run ls... 17:35:14 tried at http://codu.org/jsmips/sh.html 17:35:30 AnMaster: I haven't pushed my most recent changes, they're a bit ... complicated and far-reaching :P 17:35:36 ah 17:35:45 GregorR, what is wrong with making that public? 17:36:28 AnMaster: Nothing, it'll just take me a few minutes and I'm lazy ;) 17:36:42 hm ok 17:36:45 tell me when it is done 17:46:25 http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html 17:46:30 Now with 100% more ls 8-D 17:49:10 (BTW, the long load time when you first load up the page and when you firs type 'ls' is the AJAX more than the actual software) 17:50:28 unsupported syscall 59 17:50:31 at 4204784! 17:50:44 GregorR: totally rad. 17:50:46 :P 17:51:02 What did you do to get that? 17:51:09 Pressed "start mips". 17:51:17 It seems to be working now. 17:51:24 With some unimplemented syscall stuff. 17:51:29 Ignore those ;) 17:51:38 Hmph. 17:51:39 No cat. 17:52:09 Yeah, but so's your face. 17:52:11 17:52:11 MIPS stopped 17:52:11 17:52:11 17:52:11 17:52:12 17:52:14 17:52:16 17:52:18 GregorR: Wow, "bin/sh" works. 17:52:19 hm 17:52:20 wtf 17:52:21 AnMaster: Thanks. 17:52:23 * ehird nests 17:52:33 GregorR, copy paste failed 17:52:33 ehird: DATS RITE BITCH 17:52:38 GregorR, not my fault, rather that of the page 17:52:39 IT GOES ON 4 EVA 17:52:45 you can't copy paste the output 17:52:47 AnMaster: Yeah, I'm forced to keep focus on an invisible input element ... 17:53:03 AnMaster: You can get it by clicking on the text box "full-line input for ..." 17:53:04 GregorR, anyway I get a unimplemented syscall and then mips exited 17:53:18 when I press start 17:53:20 AnMaster: Browser? 17:53:28 GregorR, firefox 2.something 17:53:41 AnMaster: OK, copy the output using the trick I just said :P 17:53:47 Unsupported syscall 59 at 4204784 17:53:47 MIPS exit 17:53:48 that 17:54:06 happens every time 17:54:16 Maybe it's just a script reloading issue? 17:54:29 you mean cache? 17:54:31 Could be ... ctrl+shift+r 17:54:32 Yeah 17:54:32 Yes. 17:54:35 ah yes 17:54:37 Unimplemented syscall: sigaltstack 17:54:37 sigaltstack(2) failed with: Not supported 17:54:37 Unimplemented syscall: tcgetattr 17:54:37 now 17:55:09 http://codu.org/jsmips/server/dir.php im in ur code, looking at yer code 17:55:22 ehird: You realize that JS code is generated, right? 17:55:25 Yes. 17:55:27 GregorR, backspace is broken 17:55:33 AnMaster: I'm well aware :P 17:55:43 http://codu.org/jsmips/server/dir.php?f=./bin/sh 17:55:47 GregorR, what is dir.php btw? 17:55:49 /4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAHQ 17:56:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:56:14 AnMaster: It allows access via AJAX to the JSMIPS filesystem. 17:56:21 GregorR, ah 17:56:27 when will you implement rm? 17:56:35 since ls shows dir.php 17:56:40 gregor, that was quick 17:56:53 jayCampbell: Only because I used the simplest solution possible :P 17:57:09 AnMaster: Even when I implement rm, you won't be able to remove things from the server :P 17:57:29 GregorR, odd set doesn't list PATH=/bin 17:57:36 -!- Mony has joined. 17:57:41 GregorR, :P 17:58:07 plop 17:58:17 GregorR, what sh is this? 17:58:30 since it doesn't accept export FOO=bar 17:58:33 it wants: 17:58:35 FOO=bar 17:58:38 export FOO 17:58:51 haven't seen a sh like that for long 17:58:51 AnMaster: heirloom sh 17:58:59 ah 17:59:05 that quite explains it 17:59:15 :P 17:59:20 Easier to compile on wonko systems ;) 17:59:36 I made bash compile but it doesn't run >_O 17:59:38 GregorR, I hope this will become POSIX.1-2008 certified some day ;) 17:59:42 lol 17:59:45 just for the laughs yeah 18:00:05 GregorR, why is there no libc btw? 18:00:09 or is everything static? 18:00:13 Everything is static. 18:00:17 ah 18:00:23 I didn't want to write a DYNAMIC ELF loader in JS :P 18:00:28 GregorR, is the server side source of it public? 18:00:33 Yeah. 18:00:37 It's in the hg repo 18:00:43 ah cool where is that repo? 18:00:56 https://codu.org/projects/jsmips/hg/ 18:01:05 as a data point, this is firefox on XP running system.html: 18:01:08 ehird # ehird 18:01:08 J>Murphy # J 18:01:08 J # Murphy 18:01:08 ehird>J>Murphy # Teucer 18:01:08 Murphy # Codae 18:01:08 Wooble>J>Murphy # Wooble 18:01:10 J>Murphy>Wooble # 0x44 18:01:12 ehird>J>Murphy # ais523 18:01:14 oops 18:01:26 jayCampbell: This is why middle-button pasting is retarded. 18:01:27 wtf 18:01:44 also: middle mouse pasting rocks 18:01:45 I use it 18:02:02 no, it's because jsmips won't let me copy 18:02:04 so yes ehird would hate it (he isn't on ignore atm) 18:02:09 jayCampbell, ah same issue 18:02:15 see GregorR suggestion 18:02:21 jayCampbell: That's needed. 18:02:28 If anybody has a solution, that'd rock. I don't have one though :( 18:02:35 GregorR: it's not really possible 18:02:39 i coded that fancy input 18:02:42 soooooo 18:02:42 :P 18:02:48 ^^ 18:02:50 I recall that :P 18:02:57 that's why it sucks, AnMaster, btw 18:02:58 i wrote it 18:02:58 :D 18:03:04 obviously my bad influence 18:03:07 system.html in firefox on XP: http://shup.com/Shup/86338/screencap-Mozilla-Firefox-108102710221.png 18:03:12 i hate COPYING AND PASTING 18:03:13 type it out like a REAL MAN 18:03:22 -!- trave has quit (Connection timed out). 18:03:23 jayCampbell: yeah and? :P 18:03:39 a datapoint for debugging, stfu 18:03:57 debugging what 18:04:01 that's expected output. 18:04:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:04:10 that's what we all get 18:04:17 alrighty then 18:04:50 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 18:05:02 but mine has a SCREENSHOT 18:05:08 Hey, I've got a solution 8-D 18:05:13 (To the input thing) 18:05:28 GregorR, oh? 18:05:29 GregorR: what is it? 18:05:31 i'll tell you why it doesn't work 18:05:40 I just made it focus when you click on the
18:05:46 And it certainly seems to work :P 18:05:49 well, that's a boring solution. 18:05:49 :P 18:05:56 GregorR: but 18:06:00 what about clicking a button 18:06:04 you should be able to type right after 18:06:10 better solution: unfocus when you click on blank spac 18:06:10 e 18:06:13 All three buttons cause it to refocus. 18:06:19 ah 18:06:36 now GregorR 18:06:40 do i have to implement backspace? 18:06:41 :P 18:06:49 and cursor positioning. 18:07:02 Yes. 18:07:03 :P 18:07:07 fuck you 18:07:07 :) 18:07:08 :D 18:07:16 btw, i just copied the screen easily 18:07:19 select screen, edit->copy 18:07:27 of course, i doubt AnMaster has any menus 18:07:33 being h a r d c o r e 18:10:20 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:14:16 -!- Asztal has joined. 18:15:58 right I gave ehird a chance off the ignore and he just insulted again 18:16:00 *shrug* 18:36:16 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TMwO9PX4_7c 18:39:57 -!- olsner has joined. 18:42:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:44:23 -!- warrie has joined. 18:45:45 warrie, smatiny.rb runs 18:46:00 despite calling it smanity most of the way through development 18:46:04 hi ais523 18:47:41 I just multiplied the number of binaries by ~a gagillion 18:48:11 How much is a gagilion? 18:48:19 4 18:48:28 more precisely: 18:48:32 teh compiling, ur doin it rong 18:48:41 more like... 18:48:46 um 18:48:46 two 18:48:48 so 18:48:49 0 increase 18:48:50 :P 18:48:58 53 :P 18:49:13 gagillion = 53 18:49:13 precisely. 18:49:18 hi ehird 18:49:34 That is the multiple of binaries :P 18:50:36 from this we deduce gag = log 53 / log 1000 - 1 18:50:53 (american style) 18:51:03 a gag is therefore ~= 0.86 18:51:15 unless i messed that up 18:51:24 you did 18:51:30 HA HA 18:51:35 -0.425241376799737 18:51:42 * ehird 's mind breaks 18:52:32 probably a parsing error :D 18:52:45 cat doesn't work :P 18:53:06 GregorR: feed it 18:53:09 GregorR: cats never work 18:53:17 only play 18:53:20 oerjan: WE ARE SO CLEVER WE CAME UP WITH THE SAME JOKE 18:53:27 # factor 24 18:53:27 0 18:53:27 Ouch! 18:53:30 Well that's just not right. 18:53:39 maybe it is 18:53:39 (Note: "Ouch!" is from the factor program, not me :P ) 18:53:42 indeed 0 is not a factor of 24 18:53:48 although the reverse is true 18:53:50 maybe jsmips lives in an alternate universe 18:53:53 where 0 is a factor of 24 18:53:56 and so is the number Ouch! 18:54:19 GregorR: 18:54:21 # ls bin 18:54:22 out of memory 18:54:35 I'm well aware. 18:54:35 i lol' 18:54:36 d 18:54:41 I have no idea why that's happening. 18:54:50 huge bin? 18:55:03 Not that huge :P 18:55:04 50-something binaries 18:55:05 not huge 18:55:08 but... huge for javascript 18:55:08 :P 18:55:11 echo * works 18:55:27 maybe it's scrooge's money bin 19:31:42 ais523, hello 19:31:59 hi AnMaster 19:32:14 ais523, see /msg 19:49:22 -!- olsner has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:22 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:23 -!- thutubot has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:24 -!- ehird has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:49:24 -!- Leonidas has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:50:39 -!- Corun has joined. 19:50:39 -!- Leonidas has joined. 19:50:39 -!- thutubot has joined. 19:50:39 -!- ehird has joined. 19:50:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:50:39 -!- olsner has joined. 19:51:16 hi ais523 19:51:16 hi 19:51:16 you said that already 19:51:23 get your script to handle netsplits 19:52:10 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 19:53:15 -!- Corun has joined. 20:04:33 -!- Azstal has joined. 20:13:33 ais523, who were you talking to? 20:18:14 AnMaster: how many people here do you have on ignore? :-P 20:18:29 Deewiant, one currently 20:18:38 So how many people could it be? 20:18:45 ah wait two 20:18:47 yes two 20:18:58 psyg nisfive and ehi rd 20:19:05 space to avoid highlight 20:19:12 I'm no bastard like eh ird 20:19:19 yes you are 20:19:22 both of you 20:19:23 Deewiant, so yes it could be one of them 20:19:36 oerjan, I'm only doing it because he keeps insulting me 20:19:53 and I only started the permanent ignore today 20:20:11 Why the former? 20:20:25 Deewiant, former ignoree? 20:20:30 psy...? 20:20:50 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:21:05 iirc he went way way off topic in a bad way a bit ago, I may unignore next week 20:21:49 -!- Mony has quit ("Join the Damnation now !"). 20:24:12 * oklopol is technically a bastard! 20:24:37 interesting 20:24:56 not really. that's pretty common 20:25:16 ah well I didn't mean it in that sense 20:25:24 but rather the other meaning it has today 20:25:46 Definitions of bastard on the Web: 20:25:46 * asshole: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous 20:25:46 * the illegitimate offspring of unmarried parents 20:25:49 see which one is first 20:27:31 ohhh i've never heard that before 20:27:49 oklopol, really? how strange 20:28:01 oklopol, and I was using it in the first sense 20:28:04 not the second 20:28:32 technically we all got exactly one asshole too :P 20:29:11 somewhere, there's some freak with two, i just know it 20:29:16 we're all just one big asshole if you ask me. 20:29:35 probably worshipped as a god in india, they do such things 20:29:45 AnMaster: it's not that strange, it's pretty common not to know that meaning. 20:29:55 oerjan: well that's just ignorant 20:30:01 * oklopol is so pissed. 20:30:16 12:21:05 iirc he went way way off topic in a bad way a bit ago, I may unignore next week 20:30:25 ^ translation: he made a joke about pedophillia 20:30:38 next, oklopol said he had a 13 year old (iirc) girlfriend at one point, not-jokingly 20:30:40 no ignore was brought 20:30:51 being a pedophile is ok, just don't joke about it :D 20:30:54 ehird: well you said it, i didn't mention sex :) 20:31:05 oklopol: tru tru 20:31:06 also he didn't believe me. 20:31:20 oklopol: well, how could he? pedophiles are physically impossible to exist 20:31:30 the only thing you can do with them is joke about them and how they don't exist 20:31:32 and that's just despicable 20:32:06 ehird: i guess i sound too sane to be one? not that i would say i'm a pedophile, but anyway. 20:32:23 i'm just calling you a pedophile to enhance his perfect point 20:32:40 yes, true, that was my point too, when i said it. 20:33:01 oklopol: shut up, pedophile. 20:33:04 wait, no 20:33:06 pedophillia is ok 20:33:06 :D 20:33:09 joking about it isn't 20:33:11 i should do maths now. 20:33:12 got mixed up there 20:35:22 (anyway in my defense, she totally looked 15.) 20:35:23 (->) 20:37:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:39:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 20:40:05 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:49:35 Fixed ls 8-D 20:49:55 (Which is to say, fixed sbrk :P ) 20:51:28 ls is ... distressingly slow ... 20:51:48 GregorR: i don't think you'll ever surpass molasses 20:52:15 Yeah, but neither will your FACE. 20:52:19 tru 20:56:56 OH, I see why ls is slow. 20:57:02 It stats all the effing files :P 20:57:08 stat = load, load = AJAX, AJAX = time. 20:57:39 I guess I should delay loading until there's a read. 20:58:06 GregorR: watch out for security holes in sbrk, someone could gain root access... 20:58:19 Root access to a simulated machine :P 20:58:20 (j/k) 21:00:42 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:00:54 GregorR: cache 21:00:54 yo 21:01:01 get all the info once 21:01:05 then cache it until it's modified 21:01:28 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:01:35 Presumably "all the info" != the actual file data :P 21:01:38 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:01:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:02:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:02:49 -!- ehird has joined. 21:03:38 GregorR: cache the file data too, you _know_ when it's modified, you can cache everything until the file changes 21:04:17 The file data is the problem ... 21:04:24 There's 12MB of files, it takes a while to download. 21:04:27 I don't want to download them. 21:04:37 -!- LolaCL has joined. 21:06:26 banner works X-P 21:07:25 GregorR: have two modes 21:07:27 stat mode 21:07:29 and file mode 21:07:39 don't cache file mode 21:07:41 but cache stat mode 21:10:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:17:48 I don't see how download time is related to caching: I mean, it's not like you'd have to *prefetch* things if you cache them. You can just cache stuff you need to download. (Of course it will eat up some memory.) 21:18:04 It's not, I have no idea why ehird is saying what he is :P 21:18:15 GregorR: I mean 21:18:20 hitting the server all the time just to stat 21:18:22 is dumb 21:18:23 so hit it once 21:18:25 and keep that stat 21:18:27 until the file changes 21:18:41 then 21:18:42 GregorR: I have no idea why you're saying "I don't want to download them" as an argument against caching file data. 21:18:43 the first ls will be slow 21:18:45 but the next ones will be fast 21:18:46 and also 21:18:48 I'm hitting the server N times for N files, that's the problem. 21:18:53 That's how it already is. 21:18:55 GregorR: so make a batch mode 21:18:58 First ls is slow, the rest are fast. 21:19:03 also 21:19:07 it doesn't download the WHOLE file does it? 21:19:07 The only problem is that the first ls is REALLY FUCKING SLOW :P 21:19:09 it just stats it? 21:19:10 right? 21:19:17 Yes, it downloads the whole file, that's the problem :P 21:19:22 GregorR: So add a &stat=1 21:19:27 that just returns the stat info 21:19:28 stoopid 21:19:49 I was just stating the problem, not that it's difficult to solve. 21:19:57 the time it's taken yout o tell us 21:19:58 = fix it 21:19:58 :P 21:20:14 I can't, I'm gonna go gorge myself with turkey and ham now. 21:20:15 http://profy.us/2008/11/27/openid-gets-political-support-from-barack-obama/ 21:20:15 lol wat. 21:20:46 I thought you were American...? 21:21:24 umm 21:21:25 i'm british 21:21:33 buttt 21:21:38 Oh :P 21:21:38 what's me being american got to do with it 21:21:39 :P 21:21:48 In America, today is gorge-yourself-with-turkey day. 21:21:59 no i meant 21:22:01 http://profy.us/2008/11/27/openid-gets-political-support-from-barack-obama/ lol wat 21:22:06 but yes 21:22:06 Ohhhhhhhhhhhh 21:22:07 i know 21:22:11 OK, good :P 21:22:54 -!- jix has joined. 21:46:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 21:49:24 -!- Azstal has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:49:53 -!- Asztal has joined. 21:53:32 -!- Azstal has joined. 22:09:41 -!- Asztal has quit (Connection timed out). 22:21:45 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 22:22:20 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:21:15 GregorR, stat() wouldn't need full download 23:21:24 it would just need server to extract some info 23:41:20 psygnisfive: 23:41:35 sup 23:43:06 psygnisfive: i wanna try that upside down thing. 23:43:13 where you use inversing glasses thingy 23:43:15 for a week. 23:43:18 is this sane y/n 23:43:45 no. it'll be unwise to do it. 23:44:05 psygnisfive: why 23:44:35 psygnisfive: Y 23:45:03 psygnisfive: Y Y Y Y Y 23:45:04 itll be hard to get around the first few days while you adjust 23:45:16 psygnisfive: i don't move all that much most of the time 23:45:16 it could be dangerous walking around a city or something without an escort 23:45:17 soooooo 23:45:23 still 23:45:24 then i won't walk around a city 23:45:25 :P 23:45:26 you could get injured 23:45:32 I'm clumsy anyway 23:45:33 :D 23:45:33 also, you need the glasses :p 23:45:42 ok, well can i have your body when you get killed? 23:45:44 wat? 23:45:46 and 23:45:47 no 23:45:48 :P 23:45:50 :( 23:45:58 hmm 23:46:05 I should do it sideways so that I get a tall-screen. 23:46:08 instead of a wide-screen 23:46:09 XD 23:47:40 i dont know if that'd work :P 23:47:47 afk coffee and cake 23:48:07 coffeeeeeeee 23:48:49 ehird: yeah you should try it. i would've tried it years ago if i had the glasses 23:48:59 oklopol: actually you should try it 23:49:01 you're oklopol 23:49:01 i don't really feel like making something that complicated myself 23:49:03 you'd have no problems 23:49:14 indeed i'd probably learn it in a day. 23:49:15 ...or not 23:49:28 you're oklopol 23:49:29 of course you woul 23:49:30 d 23:49:37 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 23:49:39 yes of course 23:49:42 now sleep time! 23:49:52 have a goooood night nightity nighties 23:49:54 ------> 23:50:05 bye 23:50:06 :) 23:58:57 bacl yo