00:00:30 ok, another idea: 00:00:32 EAT MY EYEBALLS 00:00:34 discuss 00:08:07 -!- DarkPants has joined. 00:08:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:08:30 -!- DarkPants has changed nick to GreaseMonkey. 00:35:21 hmm 00:35:26 * psygnisfive eats ehirds eyeballs 00:42:32 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:06:24 -!- Jarocks has joined. 01:06:29 -!- Jarocks has left (?). 01:18:52 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:19:06 -!- Corun has joined. 01:33:47 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 01:43:25 BLARGH TURKEY COMA 01:43:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:00:13 I didn't eat turkey today. 02:04:10 D-8 02:04:11 SIN 02:23:56 Of all the times for the MPFR web page to be down >_> 02:29:18 UINTMAX_MAX 02:29:19 WTF? 02:37:46 Oh, it's the maximum value of the maximaly-sized int. 02:37:50 *maximally 02:45:34 Hahaha, I just thought of a great way to effectively break the GPL. 02:45:58 Distribute your source in GPL ... along with hundreds of megs of irrelevant (but compiling) source, which is all incompatible and functions slightly different purposes. 02:46:12 Nobody will be able to disect the part that actually corresponds to the binaries you distribute :P 02:52:18 hmm "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it." 02:52:39 you just have to convince them that that's your preferred method ;) 02:52:57 Yes :P 02:54:09 Well this is a weird thing to see in any C file: 02:54:11 #define char bogus_type 02:54:11 #define short bogus_type 02:54:11 #define int bogus_type 02:54:11 #define long bogus_type 02:54:11 #define unsigned bogus_type 02:54:12 #define float bogus_type 02:54:14 #define double bogus_type 02:54:58 intriguing 02:56:18 it's from GCC? I suppose that makes a little more sense. 02:56:48 Yeah, it's in libgcc2.c :P 02:57:13 Still pretty weird. 02:58:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:10:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 03:14:08 vi gives shockingly useful error messages. 03:14:14 "/var/tmp" Not Supported 03:14:22 I didn't realize a directory could be unsupported. 03:32:15 -!- Corun has joined. 03:39:15 I have vi about 1/3 working :P 03:49:26 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 03:50:14 when will bc work? 03:51:04 it'd be great to have a bignum calculator handy 03:51:45 What's bc part of? 03:51:54 it's in bin 03:52:06 Oh, it just doesn't work? :P 03:52:10 part of...? the unix utilities? 03:52:22 that's it 03:52:26 In this case, heirloom toolkits. 03:52:55 I care more about vi ;) 03:55:28 It loads termcap ... and does nothing with it ... 03:56:30 dc > bc 03:58:08 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:58:15 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 04:03:01 bsmntbombdood: dc works :P 04:03:14 bsmntbombdood: bc is just an absurdly-complicated wrapper for dc anyway. 04:03:21 yeah 04:04:10 ARGH WTFBBQ X_X 04:04:24 It opens /etc/termcap ... and doesn't read a single effing byte!!! 04:34:18 Orc seems interesting, but the interpreter is so shitty 04:40:20 Orc? 04:40:24 (ORK?) 04:40:55 OOOOORC 04:41:04 The one that was recently deleted fromthe wiki 04:41:12 Concurent programming. 04:41:21 There's three interpreters. 04:41:24 One online. 04:41:34 One that requires that I open Eclipse to run it 04:41:39 And one that only works on Linux 04:44:35 That's pretty sucktacular. 04:44:50 Yeah 04:45:02 It's hard to find a concurent language. 04:45:23 I'm trying Spico here, even though it's supposed to be used for biological simulations. 04:49:10 Well, it requires Mozart Oz. 04:49:14 Which requires Emacs. 04:49:20 And I can't find a Windows version. 04:49:27 I hate OS-dependant programs 04:49:35 Yeah, but so's your face. 04:49:50 Yes, my face also hates it. 04:49:59 And that's why I'm making JSMIPS! Every program is suddenly non-platform-dependent ... or some such bullshit :P 04:50:31 But will I want programs that runs on JSMIPS? 04:50:53 I doubt it :P 04:50:56 I almost have vi running! 04:51:54 The Stochastic Pi Machine (SPiM) is a simulator for the stochastic pi-calculus that can be used to execute models of biological systems. The machine has been formally specified, and the specification has been proved correct with respect to the calculus 04:51:59 Well, let's try that. 04:52:15 Although I doubt that it will help me a lot with such a specific purpose 04:53:38 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:53:50 Yeah, it's pretty much only pi calculus 04:54:01 Although it would be nice to try it a bit 04:54:28 I love the examples. 04:54:30 There's o$ 04:54:34 no hello world 04:54:40 It's ionization of NaCl 04:56:17 Maybe I should reinstall Linux. 04:59:50 The Transterpreter is a small, portable, open-source runtime for exploring concurrency. 04:59:51 Give it a whirl... 04:59:51 On the 04:59:51 Desktop Explore programming in a concurrent language on the Mac, Windows, or Linux. 04:59:51 On your robot Concurrency and little robots! We currently support the LEGO Mindstorms RCX, and the Surveyor Corporation SRV-1. 04:59:52 Everywhere else The Transterpreter was developed to be portable and run from as little as 10KB of flash with mere bytes of RAM. Interested developers may grab the source and enquire within. 04:59:55 Fuck 04:59:58 Ooooh, vi is deliciously close to working 8-D 05:00:05 I want an interpreter on my robot D: 05:02:41 Ah, finally, an interpreter for occam-pi! 05:03:26 NO THANKS 05:03:40 Occam robot! Destroy him! 05:03:42 BEEP BOOP 05:03:49 EX-TER-MI-NA-TIO? 05:03:52 N 05:04:38 * bsmntbombdood pets your tail as she gently licks your fuzzy anus 05:04:45 oops wrong window sorry 05:05:21 OR IS IT? 05:12:30 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:13:01 Well, let's see how this occam pi works. 05:13:12 Unless you want to lick my fuzzy anus. I'm down with that. 05:18:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:29:03 vi is so close to working >_> 05:30:42 * GreaseMonkey uses ee instead 05:30:51 oh 05:30:52 that 05:30:57 what's missing? 05:32:01 He needs a giant diamond. 05:32:06 Can you get it for us? 05:32:53 Hm. 05:32:58 Occams seems to be what I need. 05:33:06 I just hope it has lambdas. 05:33:17 GreaseMonkey: I'm not sure ... I think it's just the input is limited. 05:33:28 Doing once again lambdas without lambdas is a boring prospect 05:33:59 GregorR: are you having issues getting the arrow keys to work? 05:34:17 GreaseMonkey: I'm not attempting to get the arrow keys to work, this is classic vi :P 05:34:19 I'm using hjkl 05:34:27 ok 05:34:45 In Occam expressions, there is no operator precedence! Therefore, you must use 05:34:45 parentheses to specify the order of operation. 05:34:47 D: 05:35:01 fantastic 07:16:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:43:11 -!- olsner has joined. 07:43:32 sounds like INTERCAL 07:45:16 What does? 07:45:28 except in INTERCAL, the grouping is done with symbols other than parentheses 07:45:37 the lack of operator precedence 07:45:43 Oh. 07:45:55 Unlambda has that too :o 07:47:00 It's hard to find shit on Occam, because most results are about Occam's razor. 07:47:18 Occam -razor 07:47:58 i.e. http://www.google.com/search?q=Occam+-razor 07:48:24 Oh yeah 07:48:43 http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/s03.html#4.3 07:49:00 Hm. 07:49:07 you have to use sparks or rabbit-ears 07:49:13 I'm not sure Occam has some functional part. 07:49:44 GregorR: how's vi? 07:50:06 pgimeno: There are some other wonky issues I have to fix before I can figure out what's wrong with it. 07:51:34 hope some of the fixes to vi help bc as well :P 07:52:34 Quite possibly. 07:54:00 Thinks like du and cp are failing in truly bizarre ways. 07:54:21 I suspect it's some kind of problem with the I/O subsystem, which is probably affecting keyboard I/O just as much as file I/O 07:54:23 CP D: 07:56:42 Rargh 07:56:53 Does anyone know a concurent language with lambdas in it? 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:11 "In parallel computing, an embarrassingly parallel workload (or embarrassingly parallel problem) is one for which little or no effort is required to separate the problem into a number of parallel tasks." 08:01:11 heh 08:04:27 Hm. 08:04:28 Oz. 08:04:29 Lessee. 08:04:38 Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sh**. 08:04:57 This one I don't know if I can fix ... 08:05:11 It seems that something deep in the ABI isn't passing long long's correctly to functions. 08:05:12 Did you divide by zero 08:06:49 I have nothing whatsoever to do with those parts of the ABI. 08:10:18 No, never mind ... seems that's a problem with printf specifically. 08:10:25 Then that's probably just newlib. 08:11:50 "While this is theoretically possible, it's obvious that Mr. Stephenson's never actually programmed them himself. If he had, he would quickly have realized that no one programs Turing machines in the real world." 08:11:53 I resent that remark. 08:12:37 It's not real-world until there's a Visual Turing Machine Enterprise Edition 2010 08:27:40 But what of the LOVE MACHINE 9000? 08:27:47 It's like way higher than 2010 08:29:19 I just reread The Diamond Age a couple of days ago, and actually it was rather real-worldish in the way that after encountering Turing machines, there are successively more "high-level" systems (including that one where stuff was programmed with a language that was "extremely pithy and made heavy use of parentheses") that are just said to be computationally equivalent to Turing machines. 08:29:48 Admittedly there's that one bit of programming Turing machines, but it makes for a good story. 08:30:20 Ye Olde ärenthesis 08:32:19 Oh, it's futuristic? 08:32:31 I thought it was steampunkish 08:32:41 Then yeah, a Turing machine is probably a bad idea 08:35:06 It's "Turing machines in a storybook", not "Turing machines actually used in the future". 08:35:26 wat 08:36:40 A large part of the book is about an "interactive" educational story book thing. 08:36:52 Turing machines are just used in that book to teach about computing. 08:37:44 Oh. 08:37:51 Well, I guess that makes sense. Of sort. 08:38:08 Even though they're more useful in a math setting than a computer setting 08:38:19 Since they're pretty terrible to implement on anything, really 08:38:38 They are mechanical Turing machines, anyway. 08:39:01 Long pieces of chain (with two-position toggle switches in each link) work as the tape. 08:39:01 How can they be mechanical, if they're in a book 08:39:43 In the story told by the book. 08:42:34 Curious, that book is in scribd.com, claiming creative commons attribution non-commercial license. That's surprising, and not even sure if it's actually true. 08:47:59 "In my previous post I talked a bit about Alex Smith's proof that the Wolfram Prize 2 state, 3 symbol Turing machine was universal" 08:48:01 Duuuuude 08:48:06 You're blog material! 08:48:11 Can I have your autograph 08:51:18 Hahahah, I love retardedly-retarded problems. 08:51:30 CAN YOU SPOT THE ERROR HERE: 08:51:38 if (flags | O_APPEND) { /* stuff for append mode */ } 08:51:48 Is it C? 08:51:59 I can't spot it anyway 08:53:06 To check if a flag is set, you use &. To set a flag, you use | 08:53:09 X-P 08:53:30 With |, that will be always true as long as O_APPEND is nonzero. 08:54:11 AYUP 08:54:14 I'M EL STUPID! 08:54:26 Are you hispanic? 08:55:43 That's still not as common as "if (mode = MODE_BLAH) { ... }"... although I guess that one tends to give some warnings. 08:56:52 Slereah_: No, but screwing up two languages at once is far more stupid than screwing up one :P 08:58:13 Hahaha 08:58:19 One quick way to access the source for dir.php ... cat it X-P 09:02:24 GregorR: you probably confused it with the | that goes when ORing flags together as in: if (flags & (O_APPEND | O_WRONLY)) ... 09:02:51 Yup. 09:02:58 That's precisely what I did. 09:03:10 Doesn't make it any less stupid :P 09:03:14 hehe 09:05:04 hah 09:05:56 Does anyone know a concurent language with lambdas in it? <-- hm, erlang is concurrent, and for "funs" which is just lambdas with a different name really 09:06:12 s/for/have/ 09:06:15 weird typo 09:06:17 Indeed. 09:08:12 Slereah_, anyway I hope you find that useful 09:08:17 Well, I like to have fun. 09:08:25 fun as in short for function 09:08:26 I'll give it a shot 09:08:33 I gathered as much 09:08:39 Slereah_, erlang is not an esolang btw 09:08:43 I know 09:08:51 I saw it on my concurent cruise 09:08:52 just wanted to make sure 09:09:08 speaking of fun, what happened to humour in recently created languages? 09:09:24 We saw Esme, and we said "Never again" 09:09:25 Slereah_, however iirc "normal" functions are slightly faster in erlang. 09:09:34 since it can optimize those better 09:09:39 Well, I'm not looking for speed. 09:09:46 ok 09:09:49 I want to try doing the goddamn Limp. 09:10:03 Slereah_, there is a lisp for erlang iirc 09:10:05 let me find the link 09:10:30 :o 09:10:33 AnMaster, I love you. 09:10:36 Have my babies. 09:10:41 no I'm male 09:10:49 http://github.com/rvirding/lfe/tree/master 09:10:52 I haven't tried it 09:10:55 So am I, that won't stop me 09:11:06 Slereah_, I'm not homosexual 09:11:25 Slereah_, anyway lfe is at very early development stage 09:11:32 so far from complete 09:11:43 and you need to know normal erlang to be able to use it really 09:11:51 as far as I have heard 09:11:58 Well, considering that I want to combine the most basic functional languages. 09:12:05 I'm not worried about it being finished. 09:12:19 If it has lambdas, arithmetics and concurrent programming, I'll see what I can do. 09:12:23 Slereah_, also are you on *nix? 09:12:31 ... 09:12:33 Oh. 09:12:36 since the build system seems to be a single Makefile currently 09:12:39 That might be a bigger problem 09:12:42 Hm. 09:12:44 erlang itself works on windows 09:12:53 What destro would you advise? 09:12:56 lfe doesn't have a non-*nix build system currently 09:13:00 A simple one for simple folks 09:13:03 Slereah_, as I said, erlang itself exists for windows 09:13:05 ("stupid") 09:13:13 Yeah. 09:13:19 Hm. 09:13:24 and I assume you can build lfe by hand on windows 09:13:30 shouldn't be an issue 09:13:36 Well, I'll see that. 09:14:00 yes the makefile seem very basic 09:15:03 Slereah_, oh and I can recommend the book "Programming Erlang - Software for a concurrent world" by Joe Armstrong (one of the designers of Erlang) 09:15:20 Hm. 09:15:25 Erlang on google : 09:15:27 We're sorry... 09:15:27 ... but your query looks similar to automated requests from a computer virus or spyware application. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now. 09:15:31 D: 09:15:49 http://www.erlang.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language) 09:16:07 http://www.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang 09:16:58 Joe Armstrong is a pretty awesome name. 09:17:06 They should make an action figure with that name 09:17:11 Slereah_, for the last one I wouldn't be surprised if the ebook can be found in some torrent or such 09:17:16 not recommended though 09:17:22 since it is an awesome book 09:17:48 Hence it would be awesome to get the torrent of it 09:18:01 Slereah_, I think it is worth paying for 09:18:25 I'm not sure paying for something I'm not sure to follow through is worth it. 09:18:34 Slereah_, no comments 09:18:36 Hell, I bought enough video games and had the same problem! 09:19:06 well are you going to buy it if you end up liking the language? 09:19:18 Also if I need it. 09:19:22 Slereah_, also iirc the first chapter is available for free online 09:19:32 'kay 09:19:44 Technically, I should need it only for one application. 09:19:50 Slereah_, look a bit further down at http://www.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang/programming-erlang 09:20:01 # Getting Started (extract) 09:20:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("I'm a thaasophobic."). 09:22:54 ???????? ???? ?????????... 09:22:54 ... ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???????, ????????????? ??????????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ????????????. ? ????? ?????? ????? ????????????? ?? ?? ????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??????????. 09:22:57 Also on google 09:23:01 What the fuck is happening 09:23:12 Maybe I should turn off the proxy. 09:23:42 Ah, it was the proxy apparently 09:23:48 Google no likes proxys 09:29:02 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:48:53 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:54:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:50:47 o 10:50:47 o 11:06:23 idea: come up with valid/reasonable/funny meanings for this expression: 11:06:25 3 / "Hello, World" 11:06:32 where / is divide 11:07:11 * AnMaster has been pondering a dynamically typed language where every operation is valid 11:07:23 such as dividing any type by any other type and so on 11:07:39 oklotalk 11:07:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:08:24 oklopol, oh it got that? 11:08:32 not sure what 3 will do with [/ "Hello, World], but it'll probably try to convert the string to its own type, by default. 11:08:47 anyway "string" / 3 would be a list like "st" "ri" "ng" 11:08:50 logically 11:08:52 yes 11:08:57 the other way, I'm not sure 11:09:00 i think that's what i've specced 11:09:22 oklopol, nice, how would you convert ""Hello, World" to an integer? 11:09:31 and "string" % 3 would be "si" "tn" "rg" i think 11:09:42 oklopol, ahah 11:09:46 hahah* 11:09:55 well I got an idea 11:10:32 ""Hello, World" turns into the whatever you get interpreting the byte sequence as a arbitrary precision integer 11:10:41 s/^""/"/ 11:11:02 i think "Hello, World" would become its length when told to be converted to an integer 11:11:15 oklopol, hm ok 11:11:26 oklopol, what other types does oklotalk have? 11:11:32 besides strings and integers 11:11:33 oklotalk is very high-level, you shouldn't even have to know whether it's a list or a hashmap, byte sequences don't make much sense. 11:11:45 oklopol, so it have structs and such? 11:11:48 it basically has just objects. 11:12:01 an object can be given messages, and it can return things 11:12:21 oklopol, hm what would "string" / 10 do? 11:12:25 you can't split it in 10 11:12:31 ["string"] 11:12:34 oh? 11:12:39 heh? 11:12:54 it just splits it in pieces of size N, and has the modulo as the last one 11:13:03 ah 11:13:08 "string" / -2 11:13:08 ? 11:13:25 * AnMaster waits for oklopol to work out that one 11:13:28 i don't know. not necessarily anything sensible. 11:13:41 ah 11:13:45 but i'd probably just split from the end. 11:13:51 hm 11:14:02 oklopol, and divided by a floating point number... 11:14:12 one of oklotalk's design goals is to make the standard objects as clever as possible. 11:14:16 "pi" / 3.14 11:14:16 ? 11:14:17 ah 11:14:20 that should be 1 then 11:14:23 if it is cleaver 11:14:23 that is, make them able to handle pretty much anything. 11:14:27 actually no 11:14:44 it would be 1.000something 11:14:46 and not in a demand-driven fashion, just that there's a meaning for most things you can try. 11:15:05 oklopol, "string" / "string" == 1 then I guess. 11:15:29 AnMaster: i think that's "split", so no. 11:15:29 while "string" / "somethingelse" ? no idea 11:15:35 oklopol, ah 11:15:59 AnMaster: as for flaots you'd probably just have the first [N] pieces in the first substring, then [N+1]..[2N] in the next, and so on. 11:16:06 oklopol, where is the spec and/or implementation? 11:16:11 so if it's 1.5, you'd have 2 chars in the first, then 1, then 2, then 1... 11:16:28 AnMaster: i've only implemented oklotalk--, which is very simplified and quite boring. 11:16:33 ah 11:16:36 oklopol, spec then? 11:17:11 well not sure about boring, it's pretty high-level, and useful if you don't mind it doesn't have that much stuff in the stdlib. 11:17:26 AnMaster: you can search @ vjn.fi's articles, i don't have it anywhere in one piece. 11:17:37 oklopol, ah and the oklotalk-- interpreter? 11:17:45 or compiler or whatever 11:17:55 and thanks for reminding me about my languages, i think i have enough knowledge now to get my noprob interp done today 11:18:15 oklopol, is the -- one at vjn too? 11:18:27 AnMaster: it's a python interp, but i'm not sure where it is, and it may be on a broken hard drive :| 11:18:34 ouch 11:18:38 * oklopol checks 11:18:41 oklopol, and I got python installed 11:18:50 python 2.5 to be exact 11:18:54 ah 11:18:57 i have it here. 11:19:10 oklopol, great! upload the source :) 11:19:39 i guess i could. don't expect to be able to read it though. 11:19:52 oklopol, indeed I only know basic python 11:20:00 and then your coding style 11:21:52 www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk.rar do you open that? 11:22:02 think so 11:22:07 just need to read unrar man page 11:22:12 ya. 11:22:37 so i have no idea how that thing works, if you seriously want to try it, i can check to source for what you need to be calling. 11:22:50 well. cli.py 11:22:54 ah 11:23:00 so python cli.py? 11:23:10 yeah 11:23:33 oklopol, and specs for this -- variant? *hopeful smile* 11:23:37 ({(-> N (* N 5))} 3) 11:24:00 i guess i could up the specs too. 11:24:10 would be very kind 11:25:21 i think it's done. 11:25:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:25:35 oklopol, where? 11:25:40 hmm. 11:25:45 didn't work it seems, wait a sec 11:25:52 ok 11:26:17 k, now. except it's .rtf, is that proprietary or do you open it? 11:26:28 I suspect open office can open it 11:26:33 yeah most likely 11:26:39 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk.rtf ? 11:26:46 no it's in the rar 11:26:53 ah 11:26:55 i just blobbed it in there 11:27:35 openoffice can open it 11:28:14