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00:19:50 <ehird> oklopol: fix le nopol bot
00:19:51 <ehird> :3
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00:34:45 <ehird> note to self: infinite lang like context free, do it
00:36:07 <psygnisf_> im out for a bit guys. see ya.
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01:35:47 <GregorR> I got an email with the subject line "Lesbians and their lovely sheeps"
01:57:48 <bsmntbombdood> FUCKING HOT
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06:06:33 <Nortaneous> http://esolangs.org/forum/kareha.pl/1233554313/l50
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07:59:49 <bsmntbombdood> http://xs435.xs.to/xs435/09056/dude_what215.gif
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08:02:59 <Slereah> old
08:08:54 <bsmntbombdood> awesome
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10:35:23 <fizzie> fungot: You had disconnectized yourself again.
10:35:23 <fungot> fizzie: why does ( t do?!?
10:36:47 <fizzie> fungot: You mean to ask why it happened? According to a server notice thing, that was a hardware problem on orwell.freenode.net.
10:36:48 <fungot> fizzie: the ' cur' and ' cdr' gets the second field is called the closure of the variable `x', and similar
10:37:15 <fizzie> Incoherence.
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10:50:14 <oklopol> o
10:50:40 <ais523> oko
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11:15:14 <oklopol> http://www.wimp.com/goodtalk/
11:15:17 <oklopol> this is me
11:15:21 <oklopol> in 30 years
11:15:31 <oklopol> (i hope)
11:17:48 <oklopol> so
11:17:50 <oklopol> awesome
11:18:08 * ais523 tries to figure out why the wireless network here is portscanning them
11:19:28 <ais523> or something on 10.0.0.0/8, anyway
12:16:22 <AnMaster> hi
12:16:29 <ais523> hi
12:17:02 <AnMaster> oklopol, needs flash it seems, so what is it?
12:17:21 <AnMaster> is it worth booting the computer that does have flash and then enable X forwarding and so on?
12:19:40 <oklopol> definitely
12:25:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, so who is it? Obama? Since it says "public speaking" and so on.
12:26:10 <oklopol> "me in 30 years"
12:26:15 <oklopol> doesn't sound very obama.
12:29:02 <AnMaster> well found the *.flv file
12:29:05 <AnMaster> but 61 MB?!
12:29:29 * ais523 tries to imagine oklopol as US president
12:29:31 * ais523 fails
12:29:33 <oklopol> it's quite long, the beginning is the most interesting part.
12:29:38 <ais523> I really have no idea what that would be like...
12:29:39 <AnMaster> oklopol, "no sound"?
12:29:49 <oklopol> definitely sound
12:30:02 <oklopol> if i was the president, i'd expoit it.
12:30:23 <oklopol> probably not if i'd worked to achieve it ofc.
12:30:23 <AnMaster> Cannot find codec for audio format 0x6134706D.
12:30:28 <AnMaster> oklopol, sorry can't watch it
12:31:35 <AnMaster> oklopol, ^
12:32:50 <oklopol> your loss
12:33:05 <fizzie> That's a strange fourcc code: 0x6134706D -> "a4pm", it's mp4a (mpeg-4 audio) backwards.
12:33:26 <AnMaster> fizzie, it works like funge fingerprints!?
12:33:59 <fizzie> Well, it's usually the right way around, but yes, they use ASCII characters in those codec IDs.
12:34:17 <AnMaster> fizzie, well that message was from mplayer
12:34:26 <AnMaster> byte swap fail or what?
12:36:06 <fizzie> Dunno; the flv does play here with mplayer.
12:36:07 <fizzie> Opening audio decoder: [faad] AAC (MPEG2/4 Advanced Audio Coding)
12:36:07 <fizzie> AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 75.0 kbit/5.32% (ratio: 9376->176400)
12:36:07 <fizzie> Selected audio codec: [faad] afm: faad (FAAD AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio) decoder)
12:36:48 <fizzie> (Well, I don't have headphones or speakers, so I'm just guessing it actually does play the audio.)
12:39:44 <AnMaster> hm
12:40:03 <fizzie> The backwardsness might be just my interpretation; it could be that the mp4a fourcc actually has the numeric value of 0x6134706D, if those things are little-endian by nature.
12:40:33 <AnMaster> says faad is missing too
12:40:38 <AnMaster> Requested audio codec family [faad] (afm=faad) not available.
12:41:02 <AnMaster> well I'm on a binary distro atm, so I can't easily fix it, like I could on gentoo
12:41:15 <AnMaster> (just change a useflag and recompile on gentoo)
12:58:23 <fizzie> "Due to many requests the paper submission deadline is postponed to 9 February 2009 (final date !!!)" Yet another confirmation of http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=998
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13:17:50 <oklopol> http://www.wimp.com/beafraid/ <<< conclusive evidence. i'm hitting the basement.
13:19:31 <fizzie> I'm not sure I'm catching this conclusive evidence with no sound.
13:20:21 <fizzie> That old guy with the beard does look rather credible, though.
13:21:19 <oklopol> yes, he's saying 2012 is the end of the world. according to multiple seers! :o
13:22:08 <fizzie> Well, if *multiple* seers say so...
13:22:39 <oklopol> the mayan calendar ends in 2012, at the end of the cycle
13:22:46 <oklopol> you know
13:22:49 <fizzie> Yes.
13:22:54 <oklopol> polarity changes and earth changes its course
13:22:55 <fizzie> Also this one guy has two monitors full of text; what's he saying? A title said "web-bot" at some point.
13:22:57 <oklopol> and hits jupiter
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13:23:02 <oklopol> and we grow extra hands
13:23:04 <oklopol> and you know
13:23:10 <oklopol> heh
13:23:14 <oklopol> it's some kinda prediction bot
13:23:26 <oklopol> that predicted the world would end in 2012 too
13:23:29 <fizzie> I'm not sure I see the link between extra hands and the end of the world, but it does remind me of a piece of music.
13:23:33 <oklopol> also it predicted the tsunami
13:23:37 <oklopol> however that's written
13:24:38 <fizzie> Namely, ftp://ftp.byterapers.com/pub/extra/modules-humorouscollection/mp3/enemy_and_seadog-monta_sormee.mp3 -- but the lyrics are in Finnish, so the audience is limited.
13:25:21 <oklopol> i'll convince myself of the apocalypse first, wait a mo.
13:25:28 <fizzie> Sure, no rush.
13:25:36 <fizzie> If it's 2012, there's a lot of time.
13:27:01 <oklopol> yeah i'll probably get my degree before that
13:27:13 <oklopol> so, umm. i'm done.
13:27:55 <fizzie> Did you get convinced?
13:28:01 <oklopol> 10 minutes left.
13:28:14 <oklopol> i should really be reading, but goddamn wimp got me addicted
13:28:49 <oklopol> also these prediction things and all kinda conspiracy theories are so goddamn convincing i can't stop watching them
13:34:59 <oklopol> fizzie: the music isn't really my style
13:35:18 <fizzie> Yes, well, I'm not sure it's anyone's style. But it's about extra appendages.
13:35:35 <oklopol> well yes, that's always a good topic for a song.
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13:38:48 <oklopol> interesting documentary btw, the web-bot thing is introduced twice.
13:38:57 <oklopol> "in case you walked in late..."
13:40:36 <fizzie> So, uh, how does it work?
13:40:59 <oklopol> umm.
13:41:08 <oklopol> seems it looks for keywords on the internet?
13:41:28 <oklopol> something about spider, aka agents, roaming the net
13:41:35 <oklopol> *spiders
13:41:53 <fizzie> If I were told to do a prediction-bot for the end of the world, I'd first start to look for some means of destroying the world, just to get some suitable training data for the predictor.
13:41:57 <oklopol> there were pictures of million of words with words like terrorism and new york in different colors
13:42:06 <oklopol> :D
13:42:28 <fizzie> Then I'd need a reasonably large population of worlds to destroy.
13:43:07 <fizzie> Well, I'm sure searching for "terrorism" works just as well.
13:43:35 <oklopol> anyway the point is the black hole in the center of our galaxy, the sun and the earth are lined up (?), and, you know, polarity of earth changes in hours, and everything goes boom
13:45:06 <fizzie> Uh, right. Well, I have to admit that two points (sun and earth) are quite often on the same line.
13:45:52 <oklopol> no no three.
13:45:57 <fizzie> The black hole, too?
13:46:08 <oklopol> the black hole too you know gravitrons and neutrons have a bbq party and you kno
13:46:09 <oklopol> w
13:46:15 <oklopol> boom
13:46:22 <oklopol> scary shit. i should go read my book now
13:46:27 <oklopol> finished the doc
13:46:30 <oklopol> not the song you linked
13:46:37 <oklopol> i couldn't
13:47:46 <fizzie> Astronomy answer book has a (probably frequently asked) question of "Can the Earth, the Sun, and the center of the Galaxy be on one line?" at http://www.astro.uu.nl/~strous/AA/en/antwoorden/melkwegstelsels.html
13:48:39 <oklopol> what the fuck do they know, mayans were much more accurate.
13:48:57 <ais523> fizzie: I've never even considered that question before
13:48:58 <fizzie> Yeah, they probably haven't even counted on the polarity.
13:49:15 <fizzie> ais523: It is of vital importance; this is about the end of the world, after all.
13:49:36 <oklopol> ais523: yeah it seems 2012 is the *real* end of the world
13:49:50 <oklopol> i mean in what it was 2002 (?) even i wasn't convinced
13:50:02 <oklopol> but this is definitely for real
13:50:03 <ais523> personally, I think that if there was a magnetic field polarity flip, we'd be in trouble no matter which way the earth-sun line was pointing at the time
13:50:14 <ais523> also, the Mayans didn't even predict the end of the world in 2012
13:50:18 <ais523> just the end of an era
13:50:31 <ais523> IIRC, they predicted a mass extinction which wiped out most but not all of humankind
13:50:41 <oklopol> yeah but you know many after them have seen, independently, that there's also some you know extinction going on.
13:51:24 <oklopol> oh mass extinction, right, the documentary didn't actually say absolutely everyone would die
13:52:24 <ais523> IIRC, the Mayans believed there had been a few mass extinctions of similar natures before
13:52:38 <ais523> oh also, apparently everyone who doesn't survive turns into animals
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13:52:52 <oklopol> ais523: stop ruining this for me ;)
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13:55:53 * oklopol puts "buy dogfood for self" on calendar
14:04:11 <fizzie> Then you turn out to be a finicky cat, and absolutely refuse to eat it.
14:06:44 <fizzie> I'm having trouble finding a comprehensive end-of-the-world predictions table in Wikipedia. There's a lot of stuff around different pages, but I haven't noticed anyone collecting all that to a useful table.
14:07:15 <ehird> try exit mundi!
14:07:21 <ais523> hi ehird
14:07:32 <ehird> exit mundi is great
14:16:02 <ehird> although http://www.exitmundi.nl/singularity.htm is a rather one-sided view of the singularity
14:20:18 -!- appletizer has left (?).
14:40:49 <ehird> so who wants to hear about my silly esolang idea
14:41:00 <ais523> everyone in this channel, probably
14:41:21 <ehird> basically, every function either returns an immediate value without looping or recursing, or recurses infinitely
14:41:26 <ehird> the way you actually get real results
14:41:27 <ais523> <Jeremy Friesner> You do realize that if an actual reason was required, most of the Internet wouldn't exist?
14:41:38 <ehird> is that it just stops calling functions when it "doesn't make a big enough difference"
14:41:43 <ehird> the function to decide what that is is bindable at runtime
14:41:48 <ehird> inspired by: http://www.contextfreeart.org/
14:41:54 <ehird> in that, you just code infinite pictures
14:42:01 <ehird> and when they get smaller than a pixel, it just stops drawing that branch
14:42:13 <ais523> ehird: ah, works much like the iterative method of solving equations, then
14:42:44 <ehird> of course, it can mess up a lot if you change the threshold to always say "no, that's a small difference"
14:42:53 <ehird> ...in that every function you call will return 0
14:43:22 <ais523> how do you write the threshhold function itself?
14:43:34 <ais523> if it's written in the same lang, execution could be interesting, to say the least
14:43:39 <ehird> ais523: it runs the threshold function without any restrictions
14:43:44 <ais523> boring
14:43:50 <ehird> ais523: it would work without that too.
14:43:58 <ehird> comparisons change {3,4} to {True,False}
14:44:05 <ehird> which is definitely a major change
14:44:11 <ehird> unless you set it not to be, but that's your fault.
14:44:47 * ehird sees "Hampton the Hampster - Hampsterdance the Album" on iTunes, weeps for humanity
14:44:54 <ais523> I mean, how does it decide when the comparison function has stopped recursing?
14:45:05 <ais523> if it uses the comparison function, that means it needs to recurse to decide whether to recurse or not
14:45:07 <ehird> ais523: by calling the comparison function.
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14:46:47 <ehird> also
14:46:55 <ehird> inaccurate computer floating point circuits come in handy
14:47:03 <ehird> in that you can actually do (x = 1+(2/x)) and get a result
14:47:15 <ehird> (because 2/x always gets you to 0 in finite time, and x+0 is obviously x)
14:47:51 <ais523> what about 4195835.0/3145727.0?
14:48:16 <ehird> is that a special floating point thingy?
14:48:22 <ais523> not exactly
14:48:34 <ehird> i'm dividing it repeatedly in a haskell console
14:48:36 <ehird> let's see how long this takes
14:48:48 <ehird> bah, I'm scripting this
14:48:50 <ais523> it's a calculation that the pentium 1 got wrong
14:48:54 <ehird> ah
14:48:54 <ehird> heh
14:48:55 <ais523> it returned 1.333 739 068 902 037 589 rather than 1.333 820 449 136 241 002
14:48:59 <ais523> not a big difference, but big enough
14:49:16 <ais523> Intel had huge trouble defending their reputation over that one
14:49:25 <ais523> sort of like 850*77.1, but more serious and harder to remember
14:49:43 <ehird> i kind of hate intel and x86.
14:49:54 <ehird> whereby kind of I mean I really hate, but can't figure out why
14:50:21 <ais523> (incidentally, that bug was due to a typo in a lookup table, pretty scary really as I would have hoped they'd be machine-generated...)
14:51:05 <ehird> exit mundi
14:51:06 <ehird> er
14:51:10 <ehird> wrong copy paste
14:51:22 <ais523> tbh, though, I've messed up an autogenerated lookup table before
14:51:36 <ais523> I somehow managed to paste the first half of the table twice, caused chaos until I realised what had happened
15:05:25 * ais523 is very amused that the most commonly edited bits of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=INTERCAL are the hello worlds in non-INTERCAL languages
15:05:52 * ehird chops out the Python example because honestly
15:06:17 <ais523> hmm... I'll buy that
15:06:42 <ehird> proto: next to "Minor edit", there is a checkbox reading "Honestly, for god's sake"
15:06:49 <ehird> it disables the edit summary field, and cannot be reverted
15:06:52 <ehird> and does not appear in recent changes.
15:07:02 <ehird> also, vandals cannot use it.
15:07:30 <ais523> actually, there is one of those, but only admins can use it, and it's an URL parameter not a checkbox
15:07:35 <ehird> really?
15:07:36 <ais523> also, it only does reverts
15:07:41 <ehird> um :P
15:07:42 <ais523> and it shows up in page history, although not recent changes
15:07:47 <ais523> everything shows up in page history
15:07:48 <ehird> Rollback?
15:07:52 <ehird> That
15:07:54 <ais523> bot rollback, to be precise
15:07:55 <ehird> 's not admin-only, is it?
15:07:57 <ais523> rollback shows up in recent changes
15:08:00 <ehird> ah
15:08:05 <ehird> Rollback is a separate flag, no?
15:08:09 <ehird> or is bot rollback admin-only
15:08:09 <ais523> on Wikipedia, yes
15:08:15 <ais523> but bot rollback's admin-only IIRC
15:08:21 <ehird> it sounds dangerous
15:08:22 <ais523> or was last I looked, anyway
15:08:33 <ehird> vandal botses reverting algos aren't very good...
15:08:39 <ais523> and it is dangerous
15:08:39 <ais523> I've used it on Esolang a bit to clean up spam
15:08:41 <ais523> because it hides the edit you're reverting from recent changes too
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15:09:57 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Interpreter
15:09:59 <ehird> "Parrot - a virtual machine supporting some esoteric languages "
15:10:07 <ehird> I'm not sure I see the relevance.
15:10:13 <ehird> Who wants to add EsCo? :P
15:11:24 <ais523> how did esco become such a running joke, anyway?
15:11:32 <ais523> there are lots of other bad esolang interps out there...
15:11:45 <ehird> because it's so _overblown_
15:11:52 <ehird> and the authors were rabid in adding it to the wiki
15:11:57 <ehird> and re-adding it, and re-re-adding it, and...
15:12:06 * ais523 wonders if they spammed it to Wikipedia first, and got redirected to Esolang
15:12:52 <ehird> wow, last commit 2 weeks ago
15:12:56 <ehird> it's being developed...
15:13:19 <ais523> and why not?
15:13:29 <ehird> generally, things like that are abandoned posthaste
15:15:19 <ehird> wow, a site with a flash homepage
15:15:25 <ehird> i haven't seen one of them for forever
15:15:35 <ehird> also, tiny 10px text
15:15:38 <ais523> Wizards of the Coast had quite a few
15:15:43 <ais523> although IIRC they fixed that recently
15:15:56 <ais523> now, if you find a site with a Silverlight homepage, I'll be worried
15:16:02 <ais523> (unless it's one of Microsoft's, that doesn't count)
15:17:10 <fizzie> "I'm looking for a syntax-highlighting IDE as I've been tasked with maintaining INTERCAL code and am having trouble not making mistakes." I wonder how often that sort of thing happens.
15:17:30 <ehird> fizzie: link?
15:17:35 <ais523> ehird: [[Talk:INTERCAL]]
15:17:35 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:INTERCAL
15:17:53 <ais523> I guessed it was a troll, but tried to give a serious answer anyway
15:18:12 <fizzie> Was that [[link]] supposed to automagically turn into a real URL? If so, it didn't happen.
15:18:38 <ais523> fizzie: I forgot the w: prefix
15:18:40 <fizzie> Well, even if it wasn't supposed to happen, it didn't.
15:18:43 <ehird> According to a recent blog post, Apple discovered that Microsoft had planted a spy in their organisation, and deliberately leaked a copy of obsolete System 7 source code, machine-translated to INTERCAL, claiming it was the latest build of OS X 10.2. Bill Gates initially fell for the trick and seriously told his programmers to incorporate the INTERCAL code into Windows Vista. JIP | Talk 05:39, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
15:18:45 <ehird> Due to INTERCAL's limited I/O capabilities, this seems unlikely. I can't imagine anyone writing an OS in INTERCAL-72, and neither C-INTERCAL or CLC-INTERCAL can do graphics as far as I know, so presumably this is a new secret flavour of INTERCAL? --ais523 09:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
15:18:49 <ehird> Yes, it seems pretty clear that the blog was meant to be a joke. This is probably why blogs aren't considered reliable sources; I'd recommend not putting this information in the article. --ais523 12:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
15:18:53 <ehird> ais523: when did you get a sense of humour?
15:18:55 <ehird> post march 2007, evidently
15:19:14 <ais523> ehird: no, I just think that AnMaster-style responses to stupid questions are much funnier than ehird-style responses
15:19:20 <ais523> especially where INTERCAL is concerned
15:19:38 <ehird> well, my responses aren't responses
15:19:41 <ehird> they're pointers from elsewhere
15:19:53 <ehird> plus, it wasn't a stupid question, it was a joke
15:20:06 <ais523> well, I didn't want anyone to copy the information into the article
15:20:41 <ais523> and some jokes are only funny if the other person tries not to get them
15:20:47 <ais523> that particular blog post was not funny at all, really
15:21:16 <ehird> that blog post was written by the guy who wrote that intercal tutorial
15:21:27 <ais523> he didn't write it
15:21:27 <ehird> white on black colour scheme, on blogspot, that's all i remember
15:21:36 <ais523> he reached the point of trying to make a loop, and gave up, I think
15:21:45 <ehird> well, he wrote some parts of it
15:22:07 <ais523> ah, still there
15:22:11 * ais523 has the URL memorised...
15:22:42 <ais523> <Clinton Forbes> Are you an INTERCAL guru? Please feel free to post the solution as a comment. (It will sure save me from figuring it out.)
15:22:44 <ais523> I may do just that
15:22:48 <ehird> i pledge to kill anyone who ever makes another foo.bar.bz domain pun
15:22:52 <ehird> i cannot freaking remember them
15:23:02 <ais523> http://divingintointercal.blogspot.com/ anyway
15:25:05 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Site_support
15:25:08 <ehird> {{prod}}
15:25:41 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Velato
15:25:43 <ehird> neat
15:25:54 <ehird> http://www.rottytooth.com/velatotracks/print_h_5.mid
15:25:55 <ehird> hello world
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15:33:12 <ehird> http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=836675
15:33:17 <ehird> la la la woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo britain.
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16:12:30 <ehird> grrr. need. ordered. directory. tree.
16:12:49 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server").
16:15:25 <ehird> :|
16:16:01 <ais523> ehird: ls -R?
16:16:08 <ehird> no, ordered
16:16:13 <ehird> as in, a regular unix directory
16:16:15 <ehird> except
16:16:18 <ehird> files inside are ordered
16:16:21 <ehird> in the listing
16:16:49 <ais523> ehird: you could use the init.d trick
16:16:53 <ais523> although that's a ridiculous hack
16:17:02 <ehird> yeah, it's awful
16:17:06 <ehird> I don't want number cruft on my filenames
16:18:14 <ehird> grumph
16:18:33 <ehird> also: no, file create time doesn't count, because it's brittle
16:18:48 <ehird> and you can't sort by it in a lot of UIs
16:25:42 <ehird> let's see if I can't work out coadjute
16:26:05 <ehird> rule :: String -> [String] -> ([Source] -> Target -> IO ()) -> [SingleDatum] -> Coadjute ()
16:26:05 <ehird> A rule for building targets individually.
16:26:08 <ehird> thanks that is really helpful
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16:49:33 <ehird> one solution for ordered directory trees:
16:49:39 <ehird> have it unordered, but with a manual index of files
16:49:40 <ehird> as in
16:49:41 <ehird> filename\nfilename
16:49:42 <ehird> etc
16:52:10 <ehird> ugly but works
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17:01:04 <ehird> Hmm. In a YYYY-MM-DD date, what are the hyphens? Real hyphens? En dashes? Em dashes? Avocados?
17:01:42 <ais523> interesting
17:01:47 <ais523> I've never seen them as anything but hyphens
17:01:53 <ais523> that doesn't mean hyphens are right, though
17:02:09 <ehird> well, - is often used as an endash
17:02:13 <ehird> -- as an emdash
17:02:41 <ais523> it may be a digit dash
17:02:44 <ais523> or whatever it's called
17:02:46 <ais523> figure dash
17:02:49 <ais523> the one that's as wide as a 0
17:03:00 <ehird> Interesting.
17:03:16 <ehird> "The figure dash is used when a dash must be used within numbers, for example with telephone numbers: 867‒5309. "
17:03:23 <ehird> Seems likely.
17:04:12 <ehird> Caring about these things makes my life a lot more stressful :P
17:04:23 <ais523> a lot more eso, though
17:04:36 <ehird> Being correct is eso now?
17:05:19 <ehird> Wonder if I can get Pandoc to put a hair space between emdashes.
17:05:26 <ais523> being finicky correct beyond reason, yes
17:05:29 -!- jix has joined.
17:05:33 <ehird> I'm such a stickler.
17:05:35 <ais523> why do you think I want to distribute C-INTERCAL in PAX format?
17:06:24 <ehird> I’d type using “smart quotes” (such a stupid name) and other such things — like I am in this sentence — on IRC all the time, if it weren’t so hard on the fingers.
17:08:53 <ehird> http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/README.html#header-identifiers-in-html
17:08:58 <ehird> Hmph, I'll have to postprocess pandoc output.
17:09:03 <ehird> dogs--in-my-house should be dogs-in-my-house.
17:11:24 <ehird> I wonder whether I should care about whether IE chokes and dies on my page.
17:11:26 <ehird> Nah.
17:12:20 <ehird> Oh bloody hell, HTML5 obligates dates to use -.
17:12:24 <ehird> Ridiculous.
17:12:51 <ais523> haven't they heard of microformats?
17:13:01 <ehird> Yes, the teams overlap heavily.
17:13:05 <ehird> But it's the <date> element semantics.
17:13:56 <ehird> I'm fine with obligation, I just dislike incorrect obligation :P
17:15:41 <ehird> Hm
17:15:45 <ehird> I think theyr emoved the date element
17:17:28 <ehird> <jgraham> ehird: Either complain to Hixie and get it fixed or worry less about typography :)
17:17:34 <ehird> Bu-bu-bu-bu I COULDN'T POSSIBLY
17:18:27 <ais523> complain to Hixie, go on
17:18:45 <ehird> yeah, I'm going to
17:18:58 <ehird> ("complain to hixie" evaluates to "email the whatwg mailing list", though)
17:19:18 <ehird> I don't think they'll -drop- support for the hyphen :-P
17:19:30 <ehird> Also, -hyphens- as emphasis is very nice, I suggest you try it.
17:19:43 <ais523> -Why use them for emphasis?-
17:19:50 <ais523> -Why not use them to scare everyone?-
17:20:02 <ehird> -My name is not Baron von Skippy.-
17:20:13 <ais523> -But everyone loves the Baron.-
17:20:21 <ehird> -I think he'll sue you if you keep that up.-
17:30:41 <ehird> Okay, let's see...
17:31:05 <ehird> The base size is 16px, the line height is 1.5, so the basic vertical measure is 16 x 1.5 = 24px
17:35:06 <ehird> ais523: ah
17:35:09 <ehird> you're meant to do
17:35:22 <ehird> <time datetime="2009-02-02">THINE SECOND DAY OF THINE etc etc</time>
17:50:37 <comex> lolxml
17:51:38 <ais523> that works
17:52:07 <ais523> <time datetime="2009-02-02">2009‒02‒09</time>
17:52:19 <ais523> the hyphens in the datetime element are so that it can be parsed easily, ASCII's good for that
17:54:17 <ehird> comex: it's not xml
17:54:24 <ehird> it's html5
17:54:40 <ais523> SGML and XML should stop looking so similar to each other
17:54:48 <ehird> HTML5 isn't SGML
17:54:50 <ais523> incidentally, is HTML5 based on SGML? Or does it have its own parser?
17:54:53 <ehird> snap
17:54:57 <ehird> own parsing rules, yes
18:04:25 <ehird> Shit, I have some typographical calculations slightly out of line and it's messing up the page.
18:05:49 <ehird> ah, it's in the headers
18:05:59 <ehird>     margin-top: 0.857em;
18:06:00 <ehird>     margin-bottom: 2.57em;
18:06:02 <ehird> bet it's these
18:06:16 -!- ais523 has quit ("before I get snowed in completely").
18:06:19 <ehird> yep, it is
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18:29:54 <ehird> <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, It would appear one of our client servers just dropped off the face of the planet. We're looking into the issue and should hopefully have it back soon. Affected users just over 2,000. Apologies for the inconvenience and have a good day.
18:29:58 <ehird> Freenode are so reliable.
18:30:13 <fizzie> Maybe a tiny black hole struck them.
18:31:06 <Slereah2> Hey, it's not my fault, I didn't even work on the LHC yet!
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18:48:06 <comex> http://simple-pc-help.com/support/runtime_autogenerated%20bull-honky.html
18:48:25 <comex> I've seen autogenerated crap on the internet but that takes the cake
18:50:19 <comex> note the comments section
18:50:28 <ehird> hahahaaahah
18:50:36 <comex> also go to the homepage, where there are suspiciously bayes-like news stories
18:51:03 <ehird> http://simple-pc-help.com/support/runtime_autogenerated%20erectile-disfunction.html
18:51:05 <comex> well, more like scraped from other sites
18:51:18 <ehird> ah wait
18:51:19 <ehird> http://simple-pc-help.com/support/runtime_erectile-disfunction.html
18:51:34 <ehird> How to Repair Error Code Erectile Disfunction
18:52:02 <ehird> er, I can't spell
18:52:04 <ehird> LOL
18:52:06 <ehird> thanks bro!!! finally this stupid error Erectile Dysfunction Stopped popping UP
18:53:24 <comex> also
18:53:27 <comex> http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:IZWftMwjmOUJ:answers.yahoo.com/question/index%3Fqid%3D20081016232027AAr01Oc+simple-pc-help.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
18:53:56 <ehird> I don't know about the website but I use RegCure and it's very good and hasn't broken our computer. Our computer is much quicker and we run RegCure once a week.
18:58:23 <comex> I'm going to run it
18:58:30 <comex> I love virtualbox snapshots...
18:59:24 <ehird> haskell is so pretty.
19:00:10 <comex> I should learn it
19:00:17 <FireFly> http://simple-pc-help.com/support/runtime_Windows.html
19:00:20 <FireFly> Much better
19:00:28 <FireFly> "Do You Have Problems with Windows?"
19:01:14 <ehird> You don't have permission to access /support/runtime_<script>alert("hi mom")</script>.html on this server.
19:01:38 <comex> I tried that :p
19:01:45 <comex> you can do other html though
19:02:27 <comex> huh.
19:02:30 <comex> it doesn't actually work
19:02:52 <comex> I attempted clicking all the links on IE, no download boxes
19:03:12 <ehird> 19:03 <ehird> what type should I use for a date?
19:03:12 <ehird> 19:03 <Olathe> ehird: NiceRestaurant
19:03:13 <ehird> 19:03 <evv> protection
19:03:19 <ehird> #haskell: Oh Ho Ho That Obvious Joke Is So Amusing.
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19:07:07 <FireFly> Do You Have Problems with >
19:07:07 <FireFly> Problem: Runtime Error >critical sign of an unstable system that is typically caused by improper maintenance of the computer.
19:07:20 <FireFly> Heh, injecting HTML comments <3
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19:24:06 <oklopol> ehird: your language sounds an awful lot like ef.
19:24:14 <ehird> o rly?
19:26:08 <oklopol> ehird: in that you can actually do (x = 1+(2/x)) and get a result <<< what result would it be?
19:26:45 <ehird> 2
19:26:55 <ehird> (you don't always get such a nice answer, but that's how it is with floating point.)
19:36:03 <oklopol> blah.
19:36:13 <oklopol> trying to find in the logs when i was teaching it to you
19:36:20 <oklopol> you came up with that exact same example
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19:38:48 <oklopol> blah, i'd have to import re, and that's kinda cheating.
19:39:39 <oklopol> anyway, the point is you'd think you'd see the similarity
19:39:43 <oklopol> o
19:39:44 <oklopol> o
19:40:45 <oklopol> but yeah ef is not exatly the same, x=1+2/x doesn't set x to 2, but the idea is the same
19:40:48 <ehird> I think I saw ef in the logs when I thought of it
19:40:53 <ehird> so it's a derivation of that idea
19:40:56 <ehird> but not identical
19:42:36 <oklopol> so umm why does x=1+2/x set x to 2? setting variables is iterated until the process converges?
19:42:50 <ehird> oklopol: well, that's just haskell-style
19:42:55 <ehird> ie. x=x is a black hole
19:43:19 <ehird> eventually you get to x+0
19:43:20 <ehird> == x
19:43:21 <ehird> and it stops
19:45:47 <oklopol> so the convergence stuff revolves around "=", and works by solving the equations
19:46:18 <oklopol> by taking the fixed-point, so not perfectly, but that's the way to get fixed-points?
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19:47:00 <oklopol> i mean ef does it by taking the fixed-point of everything, which makes much less sense, so they would indeed be way different.
19:47:03 <oklopol> ef is so cool <3
19:48:55 <oklopol> how come you ain't an answer mister ehird :o
19:49:11 <ehird> back
19:49:12 <ehird> er
19:49:14 <ehird> I didn't go
19:49:17 <ehird> but I didn't read eso
19:49:18 <ehird> anyway
19:49:20 <ehird> oklopol> so the convergence stuff revolves around "=", and works by solving the equations
19:49:22 <ehird> this isn't actual syntax
19:49:26 <ehird> this is just hypothetically
19:50:16 <oklopol> well my point is, do you do fixed-point stuff by setting up equations that are solved by taking the fixed-point?
19:50:29 <oklopol> or are there other interesting things you may do
19:50:51 <ehird> oklopol: well, basically you can't recurse or anything in any other way than using fix on a value
19:50:55 <ehird> (you can't do fact = fix \me -> ...)
19:50:57 <ehird> just
19:51:04 <ehird> fact = \n -> fix (\result -> ...)
19:51:16 <ehird> so you basically have to work out htf to get that working.
19:51:22 <ehird> and
19:51:33 <ehird> it stops the infinite loop when the expression Wouldn't Change Enough (TM)
19:53:40 <oklopol> hmmhmm.
19:54:00 <oklopol> now that does sound exactly like ef again
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19:54:52 <oklopol> well.
19:55:05 <oklopol> gotta go read my book, kinda slept and idled all day
19:55:08 <oklopol> ~>
19:55:11 <ehird> bye
19:55:12 <ehird> :P
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21:30:11 <psygnisfive> BITCHES, TALK
21:37:46 <ehird> no
21:39:15 <psygnisfive> :(
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22:59:41 <oklopol> o
22:59:41 <oklopol> o
22:59:41 <oklopol> o
22:59:56 <oklopol> bitch ack
23:02:26 <ehird> hi oklopol
23:02:53 <oklopol> hello
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23:15:13 <ehird> hi.
23:15:18 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
23:15:31 <ehird> hmm, our topic still isn't descriptive
23:15:49 -!- ehird has set topic: Esoteric programming languages. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page..
23:16:16 -!- enoksrd has left (?).
23:18:22 <oerjan> i think oklopol likes his topic links to be clickable.
23:19:56 <oklopol> oerjan: i don't use an irc client from the 50's.
23:20:15 <ehird> yeah those are clickable.
23:20:28 <ehird> oklopol: 2050s?
23:20:40 <oerjan> they are?
23:20:55 <ehird> oerjan: yes.
23:20:56 <oerjan> i guess they might be.
23:21:06 <ehird> hi whoppix
23:21:14 <whoppix> Hello ehird.
23:21:24 <oerjan> maybe i should start making URLs ending in . to irritate people, then.
23:21:30 <ehird> whoppix: what brings you here?
23:21:33 <ehird> oh, you're in #haskell.
23:21:37 <ehird> must have been when I mentioned this place
23:21:42 <ehird> hi.
23:21:54 <whoppix> ehird, someone mentioned the channel name, and I have to admit, I'm a rather curios kind of person. :)
23:22:08 <ehird> I think you could call all of us "curious" :-P
23:22:36 <whoppix> I suppose all programmers need to be, at some level.
23:22:47 <ehird> So, this is a channel about esolangs. You might have heard of some: Brainfuck, INTERCAL, Unlambda, Underload, Thue, ...
23:23:23 <whoppix> yes, I've once written a small brainfuck interpreter in perl, and had a look at some other esoteric languages.
23:23:33 <ehird> :)
23:24:04 <whoppix> Never heard about either of the last ones, you mentioned, though.
23:24:35 <oerjan> ^ul ((Welcome to underload! )S:^):^
23:24:35 <fungot> Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to underload! Welcome to under ...too much output!
23:24:45 <ehird> whoppix: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload
23:24:48 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue
23:25:05 <whoppix> heh.
23:25:11 <whoppix> Looking at Unlambda right now.
23:25:41 <ehird> whoppix: fungot here's written in Befunge-98, and interprets Brainfuck and Underload: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt
23:25:41 <fungot> ehird: what are you trying to do?'
23:25:49 <ehird> and babbles when you mention their name. fungot!
23:25:50 <fungot> ehird: no one said the jobs had to be a patchwork fnord of features
23:25:55 <ehird> ^style
23:25:55 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
23:26:10 <whoppix> ehird, ah.
23:26:23 <whoppix> Befunge is kinda silly.
23:26:34 <ehird> Very. :)
23:26:41 <whoppix> Well, I guess thats an inertial property of most esoteric languages.
23:27:20 <lament> befunge is actually very serious
23:27:43 <ehird> befunge-98, yes
23:27:47 <ehird> befunge-93, not really.
23:28:51 <whoppix> I wonder if its easy to parallize befunge code.
23:29:03 <ehird> Befunge-98, yes.
23:29:08 <ehird> It has a library for multiple instruction pointers.
23:29:11 <ehird> You just fork them off.
23:29:20 <oklopol> Befunge-93, not really
23:29:24 <whoppix> Ah.
23:29:27 <ehird> oklopol: :D
23:29:46 <oklopol> welll it was kinda important don't you think
23:32:16 <Deewiant> ehird: multiple IPs are even in the core, no library needed
23:32:21 <ehird> oh, OK
23:32:39 <whoppix> IPs?
23:32:42 <Deewiant> but running them truly parallel isn't in the core
23:32:48 <Deewiant> whoppix: instruction pointers
23:32:49 <ehird> whoppix: instruction pointers
23:32:51 <whoppix> ah.
23:32:51 <ehird> snap
23:33:42 <Deewiant> I don't know if any extension yet even has parallel execution
23:33:58 <Deewiant> AnMaster was working on something related but I don't know if he finished anything
23:36:02 <whoppix> I suppose if it should be usefull, you'd need stuff like mutexes and/or semaphores
23:38:37 <ehird> :)
23:38:49 <Asztal> or STM :D
23:39:27 <ehird> Asztal: STM is awesome, even though I haven't used it.
23:39:30 <ehird> GROUPTHINK AHOY!
23:42:02 <lament> actually STM sucks
23:42:06 <oerjan> WE ARE THE BORG
23:42:11 <lament> (why? cause it's too slow)
23:42:17 <Asztal> retrying transactions might prove a little more difficult than in a pure language like haskell... maybe TRDS could help!
23:42:24 <lament> (that's why nobody is using it)
23:42:25 <ehird> speed is irrelevant most of the time, lament :P
23:42:29 <ehird> also, haskellites use it.
23:42:33 <lament> ehird: no, it's not
23:42:41 <lament> and haskellites use it obviously
23:42:43 <lament> it's by SPJ
23:42:57 <lament> SPJ can fart into a source file and put it on Hackage and people will use it
23:43:04 <ehird> is this another lament Haskell Sucks And I Hate It rant
23:43:15 <Asztal> do you funroll all your loops in befunge?
23:43:50 <whoppix> lament, wikipedia tells me it could in future be hardware-supported
23:44:28 <whoppix> I suppose that would negate the speed deficit
23:44:45 <ehird> that sounds quite unlikely in mainstream hardware
23:45:35 <lament> whoppix: yes. Just like strong AI will be in the future hardware-supported
23:45:56 <whoppix> AI?
23:46:01 <ehird> ... artificial intelligence ...
23:46:50 <whoppix> If thats what he means by AI, I can't make sense of that sentence.
23:46:58 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_AI
23:48:04 <whoppix> ah. Well, wonders might happen, parallelization is hard as-is.
23:48:49 * whoppix wanders off.
23:48:58 <whoppix> I wish everyone a pleasant localtime.
23:49:06 <ehird> GMT/UTC :-)
23:49:08 <ehird> bye
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