00:03:31 o 00:07:13 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:09:44 o 00:24:37 GregorR: i demand ops on ##0x50000000 00:27:40 thank you mister greggie 00:34:36 * GregorR is running a script to compile and run his program with every GCC optimization option (one by one), and time them. 00:34:55 all combinations too? 00:35:09 No, that would take too long (EXP is a bad complexity class :P ) 00:35:40 and what is the overall shape of the results? 00:35:47 It's not done yet. 00:36:02 well i don't know how many orthogonal options there are. 00:37:22 Probably a few, but this will at least get me somewhere. 00:38:15 there should be an option for getting the absolute best gcc can offer, no matter how long it takes 00:38:23 ahh 00:38:32 bed awaits 00:38:32 That wouldn't be difficult to write, it would just take 2^{number of options} time. 00:38:34 c u 00:38:44 like "optimize for N seconds" 00:38:51 -!- nooga has quit ("Lost terminal"). 00:39:53 i think i need to sleep too. 00:39:55 ~> 01:43:26 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:14:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:19:46 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:25:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 02:27:18 -!- Slereah2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:31:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:34:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:52:34 that doesn't handle PGO 02:52:52 ok 02:52:59 question for #esoteric 02:56:29 actually, I'm going to use prlog 02:56:31 :o 02:58:35 How dare you not ask your question. >:-( 03:41:49 -!- metaphysician has joined. 03:59:49 * pikhq has discovered the most pleasantly absurd DOS project... 03:59:56 HX DOS-Extender. 04:00:22 Implements a subset of Win32, sufficient for running many single-window GUI applications which use DirectDraw, GDI, or OpenGL. 04:00:58 One program that runs under it is... DOSbox. 04:09:04 Yeah, it's pretty cool. 04:09:28 And dosbox is actually useful, as putting layers between you and the game makes it run slower. 04:11:42 Yeah. It's even *more* absurd that it's genuinely useful. 04:11:56 (assuming you're in DOS, of course) 04:12:12 ... Hmm. I should try and get that XT in the room running some day. 04:35:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 04:44:56 -!- Pthing has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:44:56 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:44:58 -!- ehird has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:44:58 -!- GregorR has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:44:58 -!- comex has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:45:17 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:45:18 -!- rodgort has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 04:45:23 -!- Pthing has joined. 04:45:23 -!- ehird has joined. 04:45:23 -!- GregorR has joined. 04:45:23 -!- comex has joined. 04:45:23 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 04:45:57 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 04:45:57 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:46:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:54:11 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:58 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:46:04 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:05:25 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:28:15 -!- Hiato has joined. 12:11:51 -!- Slereah2 has joined. 12:22:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:30:05 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi. 13:12:52 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 13:12:59 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:15:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:22:47 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 13:26:35 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:36:16 -!- Corun has joined. 13:56:23 -!- oklopol has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:56:37 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:57:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:58:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:04:25 -!- oklofok has joined. 14:04:47 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:09:32 -!- Judofyr has joined. 14:15:45 -!- ehird has left (?). 14:15:45 -!- ehird has joined. 14:21:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:21:57 00:36:27 it's funny how every technical chanel has an extremely knowledgable person who is also a total dick 14:21:59 00:36:40 is it ehird? 14:22:01 00:37:00 trbw is #math's, zhivago is ##c's, riadstrat is #scheme's 14:22:03 00:37:04 we don't have one 14:22:05 yeah 14:22:07 totally me 14:22:09 :p 14:22:11 also, zhivago is tolerable because poppavic is worse 14:22:13 riastradthtdhjthdjth is really irritating though 14:22:23 is that nick too long for freenode? 14:23:11 dunno, but he has a stupid name that nobody can spell. 14:23:26 this is a good thing because if you have trouble replying he talks to you less 14:23:35 09:44:08 * AnMaster sighs. 14:23:35 09:44:20 Why this recent interested in eso-codewar? 14:23:49 god, does AnMaster have to complain every time something is happening that he's not interested in? 14:24:04 it looked like curiosity rather than complaint 14:24:23 ais523, you are correct 14:24:27 "* AnMaster sighs." is pretty much complaint, especially in future context " well I never found it very interesting" 14:26:01 10:45:06 I think it's legal Haskell and Prolog, but only if you define operators in each 14:26:03 not haskell, no 14:26:10 ++ would have to be a binary operator 14:26:12 even if you override ++ to be unary? 14:26:15 you can't 14:26:16 or can't you do that? 14:26:18 ah, ok 14:26:20 operator names can only be binary 14:26:26 operator name = symbol+ 14:27:15 10:52:06 ais523, also ++ in erlang means "concat lists", and is useless because it is slow on large lists unless you concat one element at head, and then you would use [H|T] anyway 14:27:26 10:52:33 so useless in any real code 14:27:27 heh 14:27:29 ehird, see also further discussion 14:27:30 (++) is the same in Haskell, but efficient due to laziness 14:27:44 interesting 14:27:48 ah, of course 14:27:57 the concat doesn't happen until you've finished reading the first list 14:27:59 and from there, it's trivial 14:28:00 right 14:28:08 it's just: 14:28:13 [] ++ b = b 14:28:22 (x:xs) ++ b = x : xs ++ b 14:31:15 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:33:08 11:00:10 i don't think so. ++ S . S implies S is a function and i don't think you can achieve that. 14:33:09 sure you can 14:33:12 data constructor 14:34:30 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:35:00 -!- Slereah2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:35:06 -!- Judofyr has joined. 14:47:26 11:49:03 (in winhugs it's :type bleh) 14:47:29 _winhugs_? 14:47:36 whoa, it's 2003. 14:48:21 and the 49th day of November/ 14:48:37 verily. 14:50:16 12:28:07 $$%d{4} would be a deprecated syntax for $$$d{4} 14:50:23 hahahahahahaha I love perl I'm going to kill larry wall. 14:51:02 I love perl too, but not to the extent when I want to kill its author 14:51:09 12:30:30 oerjan, yeah, I noticed: max x = if head x == 0 then tail x else map head (groupBy (\x y -> x>y) ((0:(reverse x))) 14:51:14 wow that function makes no sense at all. 14:51:18 to be even more fun, $$%d{4} would be correct in Perl6, whereas $$$d{4} wouldn't 14:51:41 in Perl5, I'd probably write it as $${$d{4}} to be clearer, though 14:51:55 that makes it really clear yeah 14:51:56 or even ${${$d{4}}} to avoid a potential ambiguity with the nonexistent %$ hash 14:52:04 LOL Hiato was testing his function as the builtin 14:52:08 (he wrote max and tested maximum) 14:52:11 hahaha :DD 14:52:21 i wonder how many tries it took 14:52:27 1, obviously 14:52:33 no, I bet he had a serious bug. 14:52:42 but he tested the wrong function 14:52:44 so it worked first time 14:52:54 it was a joke. 14:52:55 12:37:37 oerjan: yeah, so is length, but that didn't stop me from writing len x = if x==[] then 0 else rlen (x,0); rlen (x,n) = if head x==sum x then n+1 else rlen(tail x,n+1) and then len (x:xs) = if xs==[] then 1 else ln xs+1 14:52:56 what the frack 14:53:02 have you written a markov chain that outputs haskell 14:53:22 "that didn't stop me from writing", brilliant 14:53:23 -!- Judofyr has quit ("rebooting"). 14:53:36 12:40:23 I raelise now 14:53:39 aliens 14:53:48 /obscure 14:54:35 heh, awesome: if head x == sum x ... 14:54:47 Hiato> rlen [0,1,-1] 14:54:54 olsner: I know XD 14:55:03 ski__: no, len 14:55:04 not rlen 14:55:07 len calls rlen 14:55:08 where are you getting this from? 14:55:13 olsner: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.02.13 14:55:14 um, yes 14:55:41 len [0,1,-1] = rlen ([0,1,-1],0) = 0+1 = 1 14:55:52 hahahahahaah 14:55:58 what the heckkkk 14:56:19 (since `head [0,1,-1] = 0 = sum [0,1,-1]') 14:56:35 13:56:28 AnMaster: if you're doing low-level stuff i need to inform you the ubiquitous-pass-by-reference thing is just how i see it, i don't actually know that much. 14:56:40 yeah, python is all pass by object reference 14:56:45 that is, it passes a reference to the object in the variable 14:56:49 not a reference to the variable 14:57:11 sorry, I've been away for a whoooole day so I'm megalogreading. 14:59:37 wow, that haskell code is awesome 15:00:02 it's expressionist haskell. 15:00:29 14:28:11 I wonder how bad the Y2038 bug will be? 15:00:29 14:28:24 I reckon there'll be a huge panic about it in about 2035, and everything will be fixed in time 15:00:34 Hopefully we'll all be on 64-bit or higher systems by then. 15:00:38 yes 15:00:54 except for a few critical government systems, which are still 16-bit for some odd reason 15:00:54 Funnay option: the singularity will upgrade us all to infinity-bits, but time is irrelevant and bendable at our will so we forget all about it. 15:01:23 I think the singularity won't actually happen 15:01:31 look at wikipedia, it was exponential for a while then became linear 15:01:43 I expect something similar will happen to technological progress 15:01:59 ais523: I'm skeptical too, but for another reason: I'm not sure humans can create smarter-than-human AI. 15:02:12 After all, if we can understand intelligence smarter than us, that's a paradox. We'd have to be that smart. 15:02:48 I may be incorrect, but I haven't seen a good argument why. 15:03:49 (More generally, I don't see how X intelligence can understand X+Y intelligence, for any X and Y.) 15:05:21 -!- Judofyr has joined. 15:05:37 ##1234567890: 15:05:38 [15:05:23] hi guys am I too late for the party?? 15:05:51 was there any response? 15:05:55 also, it was ridiculous 15:05:57 [15:05:39] indeed 15:05:57 [15:05:45] :slowpoke: 15:06:00 it was a massively spam channel 15:06:01 define ridiculous 15:06:11 there were over 1000 people there 15:06:16 and over 400 of them were talking simultaneously 15:06:16 hee 15:06:30 400 people talking simultaneously really is ridiculous 15:06:37 the most active channel I've seen was, I think, the lilo memorial channel. 15:06:51 comex pasted Agora's rule 105 into the channel, and it just got lost in the general mess 15:06:54 where everybody's "rest in piece" was a unique and special snowflake that everyone must see! 15:07:03 what happened to lilo? 15:07:11 ais523: he died in 2006 15:07:14 bike got hit by a car 15:07:17 -> coma -> dead 15:07:23 oh, I thought it was a bootloader 15:07:24 you didn't know? 15:07:26 oh. 15:07:26 ha 15:07:29 ais523: founder of freenode 15:07:31 is there a person by that name too? 15:07:33 ah, and ok 15:07:36 that would make sense 15:08:17 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:08:32 [15:07:54] i camed here when there was 100 peoples and dont part it bigger then 40 min when i was banned) 15:08:34 -!- kar8nga1 has joined. 15:08:50 also, the ban list ended up full 15:08:59 Unsurprising 15:09:12 but there was no time to find a staffer to increase it before the event happened 15:09:16 15:01:15 reminds me of when i made my own ircd 15:09:18 I still wanna do that 15:09:29 15:14:43 friday 13th on a round epoch number day... in 2012? 15:09:29 15:14:51 I think we now know when the end of the world is 15:09:32 I want to write an IRC client in INTERCAL 15:09:34 -!- kar8nga2 has joined. 15:09:38 Spacetime will bend so that it is 21st december. 15:09:44 ? 15:09:53 2012-12-21 is the definitive End of the World day. 15:10:00 ah, ok 15:10:05 According to New Agers making assumptions about the Mayans. 15:10:13 Man, it'll be so funny to see that day pass. 15:10:14 yes, the Mayans didn't predict the end of the world 15:10:20 I predict mass suicides immediately beforehand. 15:10:23 just a mass extinction, in which all but a few humans are transformed into animals 15:10:33 so, no change? 15:10:33 :P 15:10:34 and the world's terrain massively changes, although they didn't know what into 15:11:07 I bet there was an off-by-one 15:11:10 and it's actually the day after. 15:12:08 well, I don't want the end of the world to happen 15:12:20 how come the Mayans, in particular, get all the credence for prediciting it? 15:12:40 because they're mystic and supposedly really clever. 15:12:41 Discordianism thinks something major will happen in 9661, how could it if the world had ended at the time? 15:12:45 and because new agers are idiots 15:14:19 I think I've just found the best Slashdot car analogy ever: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1127743&cid=26852283 15:14:39 amazing 15:15:26 now I just have to figure out what it means... 15:15:44 I think it's God, converted to a string. 15:16:56 16:38:15 there should be an option for getting the absolute best gcc can offer, no matter how long it takes 15:17:03 -O9001 15:17:04 -!- kar8nga1 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 15:17:14 -F from C-INTERCAL, obviously 15:18:59 hmm...IMAP lets you forge arbitrary messages on the server? neat 15:20:37 http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/ <-- Copyright law intent fail 15:21:43 I think they're missing the point 15:21:52 Very. 15:21:56 clearly, it's the data that's copyrighted not the encoding 15:22:03 and equally clearly, the data exists, or it couldn't be retrieved 15:22:06 Yes. 15:22:16 And also, semantic lies are useless. 15:22:18 It's all about intent. 15:22:22 [ see http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php ] 15:23:05 -!- kar8nga has quit (Connection timed out). 15:25:39 -!- kar8nga2 has quit (Connection timed out). 15:27:32 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:34:22 incidentally, Mon Feb 16 16:51:37 UTC 2009 is 0x49999999 seconds since the epoch 15:34:26 although that's clearly cheating a bit 15:35:31 heh, http://www.google.com/logos/unix1234567890.gif 15:35:35 surely 16:51:38 is more interesting 15:35:38 oh, right 15:35:39 hex 15:35:40 if even Google celebrates it, it must be a major holiday 15:35:52 ais523: I hope that only went up for one second 15:36:04 I don't know, although reports are it wasn't up for very long 15:36:05 also, the 0 at the end is so. arbitrary. 15:36:08 so maybe it was just the one second 15:36:12 0123456789 was more impressive 15:36:23 the 0's to the right of a 9 on a computer keyboard 15:36:34 I know 15:36:37 it's still arbitrary as hell 15:37:24 0123456789 = 29 nov 1973, 21:33:09 15:37:28 1234625847 15:37:32 1234625851 15:37:34 1234625853 15:37:36 1234625856 15:37:55 it's amazing how fast a few tens of thousands of seconds can fly past 15:38:07 yep 15:38:21 I wonder how many planck times in a second. (note: trivial to find out.) 15:38:32 although, 15:38:42 According to quantum theory, 1 Planck time should be the smallest unit of time physics can reason about in a meaningful way. But according to news reports, analyses of Hubble Space Telescope Deep Field images in 2003 raised a possible discrepancy. Very distant images that should have been blurry were not, contradicting the notion that Planck time is indeed the smallest measurable unit of time.[5][6][7] 15:38:43 time should be continuou 15:38:44 s 15:38:54 it's purer 15:39:20 5.39124 * (10^(-44)) = 5.39124 × 10-44 15:39:21 thx google 15:39:34 er, oops. 15:39:45 * ehird read the wp article wrong 15:42:27 -!- kar8nga has quit. 15:48:49 ais523: that's surprisingly ugly/hacked up for a google logos 15:48:50 *logo 15:48:59 also, kind of obscure for them to reference. 15:49:18 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:49:18 http://www.google.com/holidaylogos.html not here 15:49:22 well, it's a UNIX time celebration, a UNIX command makes sense 15:49:29 well yeah 15:49:30 I don't think it was a holiday logo, more a one-off 1-second joke 15:49:59 if it was really only up for a second, I wanna marry the guy that did that 15:50:03 wait, is google based in california? fuck. 15:50:15 /lame 15:50:38 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 15:50:52 http://www.google.com/customlogos.html this page is horrendous, but, go to the end and see retro google logos 15:50:57 totally hilarious 15:56:02 ehird: the logo was only up for a few minutes, I think 15:56:11 aw 15:56:12 I checked google before and after, and it was up, but then 30 minutes later it was down 15:56:18 hi chuck, haven't seen you before 15:56:40 I don't remember seeing chuck talk here before 15:56:44 although it's a common enough name 15:56:51 chuck: what brings you here 15:56:55 hi ehird and ais523 15:57:05 i dunno, i just had this window open and I thought I'd look to see what it was ^_^' 15:57:12 :) 15:57:16 clicked on a link here by mistake? 15:57:24 welcome, anyway 15:57:28 we should googlebomb Barack Obama to this place or something 15:57:30 heh, thanks 15:57:31 ^bf ,[.,]!Say something impressive, fungot 15:57:31 Say something impressive, fungot 15:57:39 hmm 15:57:42 that contained the words 15:57:44 Say something else impressive fungot! 15:57:45 ais523: if that's not apparent without knowledge of a fuctional language. if only inequalities are supported in gauche's native encoding? 15:57:50 "we", "should", "bomb", "barack", "obama" 15:57:52 should we be worried? 15:58:01 well, we shouldn't 15:58:23 * chuck sucks at brainfuck and all other esoteric langs. 15:58:25 ^style 15:58:26 Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp 15:58:31 ^style ic 15:58:32 Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) 15:58:41 ^bf +++++++++++[>+++++++<-]>. 15:58:41 M 15:58:42 fungot: let's mess with this style a bit more, I haven't seen it for a while 15:58:43 ais523: the j-intercal implementation of this sentence was going to write a portable program. 15:58:44 yey 15:58:50 hahaha 15:59:04 fungot: obviously, it changed its mind 15:59:05 ais523: e621 error type 621 encountered at runtime. 15:59:16 fungot is broken! 15:59:17 ehird: the parentheses here are those that the c-intercal compiler, what operating system. however, a compiler). the dormant thread in which it would be allowed by placing them between' and other such system libraries. if you do somehow find a copy onto the code to be precise, in situations where a group is opened inside an array subscript 15:59:18 :D 15:59:34 fungot: that makes considerably less sense than before... 15:59:35 ais523: the clc-intercal compiler, but an attempt to mix those with intercal) are created by multiple `come from's or `next from'. 16:00:05 do we have any esobots in here at the moment, other than fungot? 16:00:06 ais523: this is to allow abstaining from the previous character code, and anywhere that c source code form; this means that before using it, create a choicepoint is created containing the syntax is 16:00:32 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++<-]>.>++++++++++[>++++<-]>+. 16:00:33 :) 16:00:43 woo 16:01:15 chuck: fungot is written in befunge-98 16:01:16 ehird: this restriction was not implemented at all by most mainstream languages. the explanation is in clc-intercal ( which deprecates `next'.) 16:01:32 chuck: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 16:01:33 ehird: however, this means that the number, and j-intercal. computed `come from' behaviour, the most recent existing version. 16:02:00 wow, it's only after watching fungot chatter for a while that I realise how concerned I was with portability when writing the INTERCAL manual 16:02:01 ais523: using gnu tar tar xzvf ick-0-29.pax.gz or tar xqvf ick-0-29.pax.bz2 tar xvf ick-0-29.pax or bunzip2 ick-0-29.pax.bz2 tar xvf ick-0-29.pax or gunzip ick-0-29.pax.gz tar xvf ick-0-29.pax or bunzip2 ick-0-29.pax.bz2 tar xvf ick-0-29.pax 16:02:03 ehird: haha, nice 16:02:27 I'm /almost/ tempted to try to run that command 16:02:35 i know someone that wrote an extension of brainfuck to write a brainfuck bot that parses brainfuck 16:03:05 -!- kar8nga2 has joined. 16:05:27 oklofok: hi 16:06:25 omfg 16:06:28 my hostname just got cahnged behind my back 16:06:30 how dare it 16:06:36 -!- kar8nga has quit (Connection timed out). 16:07:20 -!- kar8nga3 has joined. 16:08:00 -!- kar8nga3 has changed nick to kar8nga. 16:08:24 ehird: what was it, and what is it now? 16:08:40 was bournemouth, and os x changed it to elliott-hirds-imac behind my back somehow. 16:08:53 that's a ridiculous change 16:09:02 ah, I see why it happened 16:09:08 technically, it shouldn't have persisted past the upgrade anyway 16:09:12 so it working was just a fluke 16:09:54 fixed 16:10:05 sudo ed /etc/hostconfig; $; a; HOSTNAME=bournemouth; .; w; q 16:10:15 guess I have to restart, grumble 16:10:42 ed? 16:10:51 yes, ed. 16:11:59 -!- kar8nga2 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 16:12:16 ais523: why "ed?"? 16:13:00 it seems strange for you to use for a quick edit 16:13:09 given that vi is almost certainly available, and has all the same commands 16:13:21 vi does not have an identical command-set 16:13:27 near enough 16:13:33 nope 16:13:35 in that exaple, 16:13:36 $ = G 16:13:39 a = o 16:13:44 . = 16:13:48 w = :w 16:13:50 q = q 16:32:08 -!- kar8nga_ has joined. 16:33:09 -!- kar8nga has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:33:36 -!- kar8nga_ has changed nick to kar8nga. 16:42:01 i wonder why anyone uses the gnu userland 16:42:03 :| 16:42:15 because it has so many random useful features? 16:42:24 random, yes, useful, uh... 16:43:56 -!- kar8nga has quit. 16:44:16 grr, organizing ~/Code is hard 16:44:29 I just have so many random projects that I dunno how to avoid having 1,000+ directories in it 16:44:59 I have a ~/esoteric 16:45:11 I have ~/Code/esolangs now but I dislike i t 16:45:16 and separate directories for non-eso projects 16:45:32 ditto, but you don't understand how many projects I have 16:45:47 how many are started and quickly abandoned? 16:46:00 99% 16:46:01 % ls /Previous\ Systems.localized/2009-02-11_1200/Users/ehird/Documents/Code|wc -l 16:46:01 805 16:46:22 (% ls -R /Previous\ Systems.localized/2009-02-11_1200/Users/ehird/Documents/Code|wc -l, on the other hand, hasn't terminated yet.) 16:46:26 now it has 16:46:27 28631 16:46:37 (note: I do have some downloaded projects in here, but even so) 16:46:41 (as in, not my code) 16:47:43 $ ls -R /home/ais523/esoteric/ | wc -l 16:47:44 151580 16:47:52 that's cheating, though, I think 16:48:01 I'm pretty sure there's at least one gcc source tree in there somewhere, possibly two 16:48:07 heh 16:49:16 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:49:36 wow, we last changed our topic days ago 16:50:05 2009-02-06 16:50:08 -!- ehird has set topic: 07:38:13 --- topic: set to '#esoteric. THEY are the (not so secret) world goverment. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.' by ehird. 16:50:10 err 16:50:11 oops 16:50:23 -!- ehird has set topic: #esoteric. THEY are the (not so secret) world goverment. http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.. 16:50:35 (technically, the logs are on bespin.org; tunes.org just happens to be hosted on bespin 16:50:44 ) 16:53:05 hmm, wonder what I should write el ircd in 16:53:24 INTERCAL 16:53:45 no 16:53:49 :D 16:53:57 Funge? 16:54:01 no 16:54:02 :D 16:54:04 it's pretty high-level as esolangs go 16:54:11 redcode 16:54:17 no 16:54:17 :D 16:54:19 that isn't even an esolang, technically speaking 16:55:36 It's more of a domain-specific language, really. 16:56:19 grr... why does redcode not have preincrement 16:59:06 or a command to make programs work backwards, that would work just as well 17:08:09 btw, I discussed an OISC corewar with impomatic 17:08:15 we couldn't find an OISC that could do an imp in one instruction 17:08:18 :( 17:08:40 OISC corewar, I love it 17:09:09 ais523: yep, it has several odd requirements 17:09:10 there are MOV-based OISCs, with memory-mapped instruction pointers and arithmetic 17:09:10 like: 17:09:13 also 17:09:16 that sucks 17:09:17 they could do imps, but not much else easily 17:09:19 that's just cheating 17:09:24 it's just moving instructions into memory 17:09:25 lam 17:09:26 e 17:09:33 ehird: it's how WireWorld was proved a bounded-storage machine 17:09:35 anyway, all addresses have to be relative to the ip 17:09:37 stuff like that is fun :D 17:09:56 what about a MiniMAX corewar? 17:10:17 meh 17:10:25 probably wouldn't work, because you can't safely read or write to any element in MiniMAX unless you have a nearby known instruction 17:10:31 yeah 17:13:02 ais523: what were your BF joust ideas? I'm working on my own hill 17:13:17 with a web interface that DOESN'T require you select each competitor manually... 17:13:27 I'm also thinking of it showing a view of the tape 17:13:35 with your competitor's current cell highlighted 17:13:39 pretty much here, I was planning mostly the tape view 17:13:40 (animated) 17:13:50 except I was planning something that showed both programs, as more of a practice thing 17:13:54 ais523: what 17:13:58 I was asking your ideas for the mechanics. 17:14:09 oh, mechanics 17:14:45 same as before, except . is explicit NOP, tape length is from 10 to 50 inclusive (uniform distribution), you lose if your flag is at 0 at the end of two consecutive cycles (it can be -+ or something in between) 17:15:09 if Goethe's unwilling to make it official, I'll happily play you at it unofficially 17:15:24 I like those, except for explicit NOP I'm probably making any non-BF char a nop 17:17:54 then you can't have comments easily 17:18:13 and if you think about it, a . is a one-cycle nop if you have "output" but it isn't connected to anything 17:18:27 ais523: comments are useless 17:18:32 since others won't see them 17:18:37 also, this is useful for a nano hill 17:18:41 i.e., you can do length limits sanely 17:18:55 ah yes, I was going to propose a relatively small length limit 17:19:24 I'm going to have multiple hills, probably 17:19:29 Free-for-all unlimited classical hill 17:19:30 nano hill 17:19:33 cycle hill 17:19:33 etc 17:19:39 if you have arbitrary-length programs that are limited to only run for a finite length of time, you can do if(*p==0), if(*p!=0), while(*p==0), and while(*p!=0) each in one cycle 17:19:49 but the program ends up massively long because it needs to be duplicated a lot 17:20:03 -!- alex89ru has joined. 17:20:23 yes 17:20:23 still 17:20:33 err 17:20:38 not in one cycle... 17:20:40 cycle = instruction 17:20:51 yes, in one cycle, for the branch 17:20:58 you have to unroll the while loops 17:21:31 ah 17:21:34 in my scoring, btw, 17:21:38 err 17:21:40 my cycle scoring, 17:22:08 ,[.,] with input "abc" would take 9 cycles 17:22:13 executing like: 17:22:30 , [ . , ] . , ] . , ] 17:22:39 sounds fair 17:22:45 err, that's 11 cycles 17:22:50 remember to implement defined semantics for simultaneous ] with + 17:22:59 huh? 17:23:00 it doesn't matter what they are, but they should be fair and consistent 17:23:17 if one program runs ] and the other one runs +, should the ] test the original or incremented value? 17:23:33 hmm, I don't think ] should execute each loop cycle 17:23:35 I think it should be 17:23:41 , [ . , [ . , [ . , ] 17:23:44 yeah, that makes sense 17:23:49 [ = start of loop iteration 17:23:51 ] = end of loop 17:24:06 ais523: ah 17:24:18 ehird: that doesn't really make sense from a programmatic point of view, though 17:24:22 also, it doesn't really matter 17:24:29 yes, I'm trying for purity here 17:24:39 purrrrity 17:25:11 ais523: it'd check the original value 17:25:17 since ] is never actually executed in my expansion ther 17:25:17 e 17:25:28 and by the time [ is executed, we've already decided to loop again 17:25:41 on the other hand 17:25:53 you could argue that you should never hit a [ when the current cell will be 0 inside the loop 17:25:55 so hm 17:26:40 , [ . , ] . , ] . , ] is a better semantic, then 17:26:44 hm 17:26:53 ,[.,] with no input should be ,] 17:26:56 as an execution path, I think 17:26:58 ais523: do you agree? 17:27:11 I think ,[ 17:27:15 and the [ jumps to after the ] 17:27:17 I think that nop loops should cost one cycle, even though they do nothing, since the checking of the current cell is some computation 17:27:20 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:27:23 yes 17:27:24 ais523: ah, agreed 17:28:00 so the formal semantics of [ are "loop started, jump past end of ] after checking if = 0" 17:28:09 and the formal semantics of ] are "jump back to [" 17:28:11 but that'd actually make it 17:28:17 , [ . , ] [ . , ] [ . , ] 17:28:24 which, while pretty, is costly 17:28:25 no, the formal semantics of ] are "jump to the right of the matching ] if != 0" 17:28:31 err 17:28:32 fail? 17:28:40 read that sentence 17:28:42 "the matching [" 17:29:06 that duplication of logic irritates me 17:29:19 only one instruction should be operated each loop tick, and it should be the only instruction that can check for cell value 17:29:42 that duplication of logic is a common way to do BF looping, though 17:29:52 and it's the neatest way IMO, being symmetrical 17:29:59 i know, but that's not pure 17:30:02 otherwise you need 0-cycle jumps and other stupidities like that 17:30:17 and what do you mean "not pure", testing both ends seems pretty pure to me 17:30:19 each command should be completely separate from the rest 17:30:22 your version has [ and ] doing different things! 17:30:27 i.e., no commands should duplicate the purpose of another command 17:30:38 thus, only one command should do "check the value of the current cell" 17:30:54 [ and ] are opposites; [ jumps on zero, ] jumps on nonzero 17:31:07 right, but they both make a jump depending on the current cell 17:31:09 just like only one command should do "change the value of the current cell", or "change the location of the pointer"? 17:31:12 and that duplication makes the instruction set less pure 17:31:19 BF has always had /two/ commands doing anything in particular, which are opposites 17:31:23 ais523: we're assuming bignum here, because it's also pure 17:31:30 ehird: what? in BF Joust? are you mad? 17:31:34 no 17:31:40 I'm coming up with cycle semantics for brainfuck that are pure 17:31:45 and then applying them to joust 17:32:00 your definition of pure is ridiculous, you may as well eliminate - and < if you're going that way 17:32:16 with bignums, + and - cannot replace each other. and with a non-wrapping tape, < and > cannot either. 17:32:35 and [ and ] cannot replace each other either! 17:32:40 you clearly need both of them for a loop 17:32:52 they are both, at heart, conditional jump instructions 17:33:09 still, they both check the value of the current cell and jump based on it 17:33:13 and there's no reason to break symmetry by implementing [ as "jump to ] and test there" or ] as "jump to [ and test there" 17:33:14 I think only one of them should do that 17:33:34 what I'm saying is, an unconditional jump is a lot less pure than a conditional jump, if there's only one thing you can unconditionally jump to and that's a conditional jump 17:34:09 i don't want an unconditional jump 17:34:18 as I said, I want only one command to be executed each cycle 17:34:26 Currently, I'm tempted to have ] never actually execute 17:34:38 ,[.,] with no input = , [ 17:34:41 yes, I agree 17:34:50 ,[.,] with input "abc" = , [ . , [ . , [ . , 17:34:55 and the jump-at-each-end semantic is clearly the neatest, most symmetrical and purest way to do that 17:35:07 if you like, think of [ as for jumping forwards and ] as for jumping backwards 17:35:17 just like you need both < and >, you need to be able to jump both forwards and backwards 17:35:28 hmm, I'm tempted to have ] execute in one case: 17:35:33 when the loop ends, [ jumps onto the ] 17:35:35 ,[.,] with no input = , [ ] 17:35:37 ,[.,] with input "abc" = , [ . , [ . , [ . , ] 17:36:05 ugh, that's wasting a cycle for no good reason 17:36:09 ,[.,] with no input = , [ 17:36:18 ,[.,] with input "abc" = , [ . , ] . , ] . , ] 17:36:41 by your definition, ,[.,] with input "abc" would be , [ . , [ , [ . , [ ] 17:36:43 which is silly 17:36:48 no 17:36:58 "when the loop ends, [ jumps onto the ]" 17:36:59 itd be , [ . , [ . , [ . , ] 17:37:02 no 17:37:04 when the loop ENDS 17:37:07 as in, no more iterations 17:37:13 so, in other words, ] tests its argument, but only if it's 0 17:37:18 no 17:37:19 if its argument isn't 0, the [ runs instead 17:37:19 ] is a nop 17:37:28 well, what's testing the argument, then? 17:37:32 does the test materialise out of thin air? 17:38:23 sort of. 17:38:41 I don't get how you can claim that all this is purer than my method 17:38:53 [17:36:09] ,[.,] with no input = , [ 17:38:56 this is wrong, IMO 17:39:01 ehird: how can it be? 17:39:04 it's too cheap for a not-running loop 17:39:05 the . and , inside the loop never run 17:39:08 ehird: no, it isn't 17:39:10 I think a not running loop should cost two cycles 17:39:14 it's exactly as cheap as it ought to be 17:39:21 and I bet you in Goethe's rules, a nonrunning loop costs one cycle 17:39:30 a not running loop is an if, it should only cost one cycle 17:39:36 a; if(b) {c;} d; 17:39:42 say b is false, should that if really cost two cycles 17:40:43 yes 17:40:53 loop starting & loop ending should both be one cycle, after all, that's symmetric isn't it? 17:41:02 loop skipping should also be one cycle 17:41:13 ehird: how many cycles should loop iterating be? 17:41:17 one, clearly 17:41:21 one 17:41:23 so loop skipping should also be 1 17:41:28 execute 0 times = 1 cycle 17:41:32 execute 1 time = 2 cycles 17:41:38 execute 2 times = 3 cycles 17:41:39 and so on 17:41:48 you want the first two entries to both be 2 cycles, for some reason 17:41:51 hmm, fine. 18:01:07 hmm... 18:01:14 It looks like I'm on the road to writing my own mail client, 18:02:41 :x 18:06:46 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:07:07 hey Judofyr, what mail client do you use. 18:07:23 ehird: gmail for personal, Mail.app for work 18:07:33 bah. 18:07:35 yeah 18:07:36 I know 18:08:23 I love gmail except it'd be nicer as a native app. so right now I'm clutching at straws to avoid learning Interface Builder & Cocoa & IMAP & POP to make my own damn client 18:08:27 oh, & SMTP 18:09:59 I wish gmail had proper tree-view (for mailing-lists) 18:10:12 other than that, I'm pretty happy with it 18:10:21 Judofyr: I've thought about that, and concluded that: 18:10:46 the same conversation view, but with a thread-tree view to the side that auto-updates as you scroll (to select the current one), and lets you jump to somewhere in the thread,w 18:10:48 would be useful 18:11:01 (per-thread, ofc, since most of the time I doubt it'd be useful) 18:11:10 ehird: Obj-C? 18:11:26 Judofyr: I'd avoid using obj-c by using a binding. 18:11:27 :P 18:11:35 RubyCocoa? 18:11:40 something like that. 18:11:53 MacRuby? 18:11:57 something like that. 18:12:00 :p 18:12:02 :P 18:12:03 secret? 18:12:06 nope. 18:12:16 I just am desperately trying to avoid coding my own damn client. 18:12:32 because I hate fussing around with gui code 18:12:35 seen sop? 18:12:38 also, because IMAP sucks 18:12:42 http://sop.rubyforge.org 18:12:44 sup? yeah, but it's console based. 18:15:03 in conclusion, software sucks 18:15:42 I'm still surprised no-one has built The Perfect Mail Client 18:15:59 I'm pretty sure people have trie 18:15:59 d 18:16:20 Judofyr: the problem is that IMAP really, really sucks 18:16:25 you can only use one folder at a time! 18:16:36 also, imap is more or less completely incompatible with doing labels 18:16:50 true 18:17:40 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:17:40 gmail has it easy because they don't need to support things like imap 18:17:45 well, they do support i t 18:17:48 but they can just hack it in 18:17:55 and natively use their own thing 18:21:01 * Judofyr wants Gmail API 18:21:48 but yeah, ew making GUIs :( 18:21:53 -!- kar8nga_ has joined. 18:22:27 Shoooes! 18:22:55 yeah um shoes kind of doesn't really have the rich GUI components useful for making a fully-featured, native email client. 18:22:58 you know. like toolbars 18:23:24 true. shoes is much more about plain fun 18:23:34 unfortunately email is very unfun 18:25:00 a better path to making a client is to make a nice API for imap and suchlike then build a client on top, but unfortunately the client will almost certainly require a huge restructuring of the api that you did not anticipate... 18:26:24 -!- kar8nga_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:27:06 -!- kar8nga_ has joined. 18:27:49 -!- kar8nga has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:27:53 -!- kar8nga_ has changed nick to kar8nga. 18:32:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:33:41 oh wow, bloopsaphone is awesome 18:33:50 http://github.com/why/bloopsaphone/tree 18:34:07 heh, I just thought about it :P 18:36:25 I am totally using this for a haccordian-like thing 18:39:39 -!- Corun has joined. 18:47:45 data constructor 18:47:48 hm true 18:47:59 but ++ at the start means it's a non-starter 18:48:07 my mind is going, i can feel it 18:48:23 ehird: i interpreted it as whether it could be a legal fragment 18:48:27 ah 18:48:54 the ++ still needs to be redefined though 18:49:08 yes 18:49:41 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:53:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:53:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:53:50 lost connection to isp, hope that was just a one-time thing 18:54:36 was about to say: or you could redefine just . 18:54:55 nah 18:54:59 ++ S is inherently a type error 18:55:00 since S is not [a] 18:55:06 oh, it's ++(S.S) 18:55:09 ok then, yeah 18:56:35 bloopsaphone is what I've wanted for aaages 18:58:35 what does it do? 18:58:45 I reckon there'll be a huge panic about it in about 2035, and everything will be fixed in time 18:59:12 no, because no one but the geeks will be able to understand the fuzz, since it's not a BIG ROUND number 18:59:15 ais523: http://github.com/why/bloopsaphone/blob/b6fc0c789e81574099169fbf498adfaed9130b8b/README 18:59:25 so no one will actually pay to fix it in time 18:59:32 *fuss 19:00:11 I bet they will 19:00:19 PHBs will know slightly more about computers back then 19:00:33 * oerjan is only playing a cynic for humorous purposes 19:00:34 they'll hear about a doomsday on which computers will all stop working 19:00:43 and beg their engineers to make sure they aren't caught up in it 19:01:20 back then <- overflow reference? :D 19:01:30 in my brain 19:01:44 my brain seems to place just-before-2038 as before today 19:01:50 maybe because it's happened once already, in 2000 19:02:01 although that one was relatively small 19:02:05 i bet your brain uses 16-bit time_t 19:02:07 incidentally, some 2038 bugs have already happened 19:02:07 or something 19:02:12 hm except - islamic terrorists (or whatever replaces them) will sow misinformation to make the PHBs think it's all a hoax, and they're too stupid to understand who is right... 19:02:16 due to someone who used 1 billion seconds to represent forever 19:02:20 heh 19:03:06 by that time it might be the angry maldivian diaspora 19:03:11 as for that bloopsaphone, I was really disappointed when Microsoft deprecated the API to do that 19:03:18 it existed in win 3.1, still worked in 95 19:03:26 but had stopped working by XP, which is annoying 19:03:42 they wanted people to use a weird MIDI+WAV+video scripting language instead 19:03:53 wait, that was working in 98 19:03:58 but by XP, it was broken again 19:04:08 wait, microsoft had an api to make chiptunes? 19:04:09 :D 19:04:10 it still "worked", but with a 10-second-or-so delay whenever you loaded a MIDI file 19:04:19 ehird: only sort of tune there was back in win 3.1 19:04:24 unless you had spiffy new gamind speakers 19:04:25 ais523: oh, you mean pc speaker? 19:04:28 yes 19:04:31 nooo, bloopsaphone is much more 19:04:42 it does polyphonic, synthesized sound, based on squarewaves and such 19:04:46 so it sounds like the NES etc 19:04:53 well, the BBC Micro did that 19:04:58 (although you can make it do monophonic bleeps too, ofc) 19:05:02 it even had an ENVELOPE command 19:05:58 After all, if we can understand intelligence smarter than us, that's a paradox. We'd have to be that smart. 19:06:19 i think that paradox only applies to understanding so finely that you can simulate it in your head 19:06:26 hmm 19:06:28 possibly 19:07:32 also, it could be a large team of humans working on it, who would of course have access to all kinds of computer resources to improve their own reach 19:07:52 true 19:12:35 I want to write an IRC client in INTERCAL 19:12:46 I have all sorts of ideas for interesting features 19:12:55 such as a /swapnick command which swaps nicks with someone without anyone knowing 19:13:01 (working by piping messages through each other's clients) 19:13:07 i was going to say "that way lies madness", but then i realized madess has been far surpassed before you begin :D 19:13:13 *n 19:13:22 ais523: why? 19:13:31 ehird: do you really have to ask why? 19:13:37 yes. :D 19:13:44 but the actual reason is Claudio mentioned the possibility in an email, and I've been wondering about it ever since 19:14:00 i don't get what the usecase is 19:18:03 to spread madness, of course 19:21:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:22:35 * kerlo transfers a credibility point from ehird to oerjan 19:22:49 what 19:23:16 BWAHAHAHA soon i shall have enough credibility to be voted in as World Dictator 19:23:21 -!- Slereah2 has joined. 19:23:28 then i will resign, too much work 19:23:30 Yep. 19:24:04 too bad i was not the first. maybe i should cleanse all evidence of Dogbert's existence from the world before resigning. 19:25:29 i will also advise all world scientists to work _hard_ on creating a mind sweeping device before my inauguration, otherwise the cleansing will be far messier. 19:25:47 haha 19:25:51 What do you mean by "mind sweeping device"? 19:25:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:26:07 kerlo: you will forget you ever asked that 19:26:33 What did kerlo ask? 19:26:47 nothing of importance. 19:26:51 Sgeo: check logs 19:26:55 no. 19:27:06 i would advise against that. 19:27:26 You really need a log erasing device 19:27:44 trivial. 19:29:18 also, once the Tunes operating system develops sentience (as it obviously needs to iirc), it will be only too happy to cleanse the logs for me. 19:30:37 oerjan: IIRC or IMO? 19:31:07 iirc for remembering what Tunes is supposed to be 19:32:20 imo is unnecessary as my opinion is always right, iirc 19:33:32 as a World Dictator i will be an infinitely wise and fair judge who just happens not to quite recall correctly what the defendants did 19:34:21 maybe the scientists would be well advised to work on a memory preservation device, as well 19:35:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:35:24 * oerjan realizes he just committed a first degree split infinitive above 19:35:24 oerjan: tunes isn't aiming for sentience 19:35:40 no, but their goals require it, iirc 19:35:46 really? 19:36:06 * oerjan swats ehird -----### 19:36:16 DON'T DOUBT ME, FILISTINE 19:36:35 * ehird turns into rabbit 19:36:43 * ehird poops on oerjan's face 19:36:44 hm i think the swatter shall be in my world empire flag 19:36:45 * ehird hops away 19:37:32 Is Tunes even active? 19:37:39 Is anyone actually working on it? 19:37:42 Nope. 19:37:47 Nobody ever DID. 19:37:48 That reminds me, I'm going to check on OSMP 19:37:50 They never got past planning. 19:38:03 Sgeo: "As of 2008, the project was no longer active. Most developers shifted focus to development of open source software compatible with Second Life. 19:38:03 "? 19:38:14 http://metaverse.sourceforge.net/ 19:38:19 yeah 19:38:35 OSMP isn't compatible with SL, iirc 19:38:36 whoa! 19:38:38 from tunes.org: 19:38:39 "David Madore's explanation of TUNES" 19:38:44 david madore = unlambda inventor! 19:39:08 * kerlo allies with oerjan 19:39:16 The last post on the OSMP forums was in 2007.. 19:39:51 uh oh 19:39:53 [[I am François-René Rideau, a one-man think tank from France, and the author of several libertarian websites [1]. I am very honored to be speaking before this audience today, especially so in a session dedicated to the memory of Ayn Rand. ]] 19:39:56 -- Founder of TUNES 19:40:09 Linky? 19:40:11 i don't wanna know what an objectivist OS would look like 19:40:18 processes fighting processes for resources! :D 19:40:23 selling their resources to other processors! 19:40:31 processonomics 19:40:33 i guess that explains why it never got off the ground :D 19:40:35 Sgeo: http://fare.tunes.org/liberty/sofia2005.html 19:41:36 suffers from other delusions also: http://tunes.org/~do/ 19:43:03 "I've accumulated ideas for a short libertarian comic strip, and I am looking for an artist to illustrate them. If I can't find one, I may buy myself a tablet and try to draw my own stick-figure comic strip..." 19:43:04 please god no. 19:43:22 Everyone's looking for an artist. 19:43:31 especially libertarians 19:43:43 I'm an artist! You'll have to supply the Play-Doh, though; I don't have any on me. 19:44:24 Also, I hope photographs of Play-Doh will be sufficient. 19:45:49 Also, keep in mind that I have no actual sculpting experience. 19:47:01 given this is a libertarian, he should expect to pay for an artist, no? 19:50:59 -!- dbc has quit (Client Quit). 19:51:04 purrrrity 19:51:19 would that be a lolcat version of haskell? 19:52:13 there's crap on my floor. i mean actual crap. 19:52:20 does that answer your question? 19:52:48 well that doesn't sound pure 19:53:02 Crap from what species? 19:53:10 or are you implying cats and purity are incompatible? 19:53:32 i sincerely hope not human 19:53:35 And of the species within the crap, approximately what proportion are eukaryotic? 19:54:35 all your questions are nice and valid. 19:54:38 more importantly, what proportion are multicellular 19:54:50 ^ that one is too 19:55:26 as it would be important to know if the source has intestinal worms 19:55:34 i mean i take her out, walk with her for like a km, come home, and she craps on my floor 19:58:56 * oerjan is more a dog than a cat person, really. not that he would trust himself with being responsible for either. 20:01:20 i'm more of a cat person, but really i'm more of a rodent person, mostly a bat/lizard person i guess 20:01:40 i mean staring contests with lizards 20:01:41 are 20:01:42 awe 20:01:42 some 20:02:00 i mean squirrels, cats and hares i can win easily 20:02:16 but lizards can do it for hours on end 20:02:32 cats? there goes my stereotype. 20:02:49 huh? 20:03:02 Fuck I think I broke my speakers 20:03:24 i thought cats were invincible starers, but admittedly i probably got it from comics 20:03:46 clearly you have no idea how competitive i am 20:04:01 halp 20:04:28 do like me, keep your sound off nearly at all times 20:04:29 Why is http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=39 so broken? 20:04:36 yes put 20:04:37 but 20:04:41 i broke em 20:05:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:06:23 Sgeo: it's actually an inside joke relating to their other "comic" 20:07:00 um, how come you don't know? or have i been trolled? 20:07:19 isn't it theoretically impossible to troll oerjan? 20:07:26 ....I even went to view image, and failed to realize that that wasn't a 404? 20:07:27 as in, if someone would troll oerjan, it platonically doesn't happen? 20:07:37 * Sgeo slaps self 20:07:49 -!- ais523 has changed nick to self. 20:07:51 ow 20:07:53 -!- self has changed nick to ais523. 20:08:35 So Comments on a Postcard is a fake non-existent image? 20:08:36 WHY 20:08:36 ehird: well it's too late to close the barn once the cows have run away. or something. 20:08:55 Sgeo: it's a _series_ of them. 20:09:09 why would the cows run away? they have a nice warm barn, in this weather? 20:09:11 the actual content is the annotation 20:09:26 ais523: well this may apply more during summer 20:11:47 Sgeo: also, it's a collaborative "comic", see the forum 20:12:10 so don't expect too much consistency 20:21:04 "According to an analysis of your IP address, you access this site from a computer located in the Langerhans Islets. In accordance with Langerhans Islets pornography laws, individual pictures will not be displayed." 20:21:22 sucks to be you 20:21:23 that's a ridiculous error message 20:21:30 http://www.mezzacotta.net/postcard/about.php 20:21:37 yes. yes it is. 20:21:53 especially as I don't know of any Langerhans Islets that have been allocated any IP addresses at all 20:22:01 what is a joke 20:22:13 ais523: it's only a matter of time, really. 20:22:26 although it probably should be v6 20:23:07 ehird: it's you who missed the joke 20:23:19 certainly 20:23:44 ehird never lets a joke get in the way of being cynical 20:23:54 :D 20:24:13 Who is this L person? 20:24:26 where? 20:24:28 They do Dudley's Dungeon stuff, Uncyclopedia, and now Comments on a Postcard? 20:24:32 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1889&sid=fd393ac5c6eba0191cead4a4c37d8351 20:24:55 Because, um, L is a totally uncommon nick. 20:24:58 Who would pick that?? 20:24:58 it could be more than one person, each calling themselves L 20:25:09 the whole [[WP:SLG]] stuff got quite controversial before it was deleted 20:25:10 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/User:Zork_Implementor_L 20:25:23 it was basically a group of people who all renamed themselves to have single-letter usernames 20:25:25 that's not even freaking L, Sgeo 20:25:26 "total posts: 16", not a regular 20:25:28 that's Zork Implementor L. 20:25:55 ais523: I bet there's some hyper-christian registered as † 20:26:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/† Well, yes. 20:26:19 single-character non-ASCII names have been banned for a while 20:26:25 but clearly someone registered as that beforehand 20:27:48 http://jwz.livejournal.com/1003289.html 20:28:36 correction: not an _old_ regular, seems quite active 20:30:09 * ehird iterates a binary pangram 20:30:13 XXX0YYY1 20:30:23 where X = number of 0s and Y = number of 1s, ofc 20:31:45 does it converge? 20:32:21 hm wait of course it must end in a cycle 20:32:32 since too long ones will be shortened 20:32:42 well, it could be XXXX0YYYY1. 20:33:07 i assumed the number of X's and Y's were dependent on the numbers 20:33:12 no 20:33:13 constant 20:33:38 oerjan: the length of XXX0YYY1 = 8, and 3 binary digits can add up to 7 20:33:40 so it's enough 20:33:58 oh well, you get a cycle anyhow, it just makes the proof easier 20:34:10 (read trivial) 20:34:12 :< 20:34:17 then I'll try trinary 20:34:18 :P 20:34:28 it might be a cycle of length 1 20:34:30 duh it's the case for any base 20:34:35 oh. 20:34:44 well, pangrams work do they not? 20:34:45 indeed, i did not mean to imply anything about length 20:35:48 well there are pangrams, but i don't know whether there are some bases which don't happen to have any 20:35:59 01101011 20:36:26 indeed 20:36:54 it's not like checking ~ 36 possibilities is a big deal 20:37:26 oerjan: 8 possibilities 20:37:36 *9 20:37:43 which can easily be brought down to 3 with a bit of common sense 20:37:44 hm? 20:37:58 oerjan: because the number of 0s and the number of 1s add up to 8 20:38:03 well i brought it down to 36 first 20:38:08 hm true 20:40:00 but are there any with variable length length 20:41:19 it cycles: 20:41:19 10000111 20:41:19 10001001 20:41:19 10101001 20:41:19 10000111 20:41:19 10001001 20:41:21 10101001 20:41:23 :P 20:42:32 :O 20:42:38 wow that's pretty 20:42:53 i love it 20:43:12 * ehird makes it length 2 out of intererest 20:43:39 length-2 cycles between 20:43:39 0101011 20:43:39 0111011 20:43:48 wait 20:43:54 that's one length too many. 20:44:12 and 0 in the wrong place 20:45:32 -!- ais523 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 20:46:29 woohoo 20:46:30 I got it 20:46:30 0101001011 20:46:34 length 4 20:46:39 XXXX0YYYY1 20:47:25 XXYY: 1010 20:48:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:52:07 hi ais523 20:52:09 0101001011 20:52:13 pangram of form XXXX0YYYY1 20:52:41 a nice symmetrical one, as well 20:52:46 how's the BF Joust implementation going? 20:52:47 yep 20:52:56 ais523: got sidetracked with this :-) 20:53:04 (btw, in english, that pangram states "5 zeros, 5 ones") 20:53:19 I know 20:54:42 others may not. 20:59:31 i note none of the examples so far have lengths starting with 1, so won't work with variable length 20:59:58 *length length 21:00:52 2 decimal loops: 21:00:52 100071032023014015016027018019 21:00:52 110081032023014015016017028019 21:00:56 (length 2) 21:01:21 did you find those by iteration? 21:01:25 yah 21:01:26 also, some spaces might make it more readable 21:01:31 they loop is the point 21:01:37 i.e., they both loop to each other 21:01:40 * ehird tries length 3 decimal 21:01:43 11 0 08 1 03 2 02 3 01 4 01 5 01 6 01 7 02 8 01 9 21:01:57 ehird: try messing with the starting point? 21:03:02 110 1001, of course :) 21:04:14 i don't think there can be one that is both fixed and variable length 21:07:01 brb -> 21:07:24 indeed the requirement to start with 1 makes the numbers too large for length > 3, and length 2 and 3 don't work either 21:13:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:17:21 -!- Judofyr has joined. 21:22:12 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird|away. 21:37:48 -!- kar8nga2 has joined. 21:38:22 -!- kar8nga has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:38:26 -!- kar8nga2 has changed nick to kar8nga. 21:41:01 -!- SchrodingersCat has joined. 21:41:02 -!- ehird|away has changed nick to ehird. 21:50:48 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 21:52:07 -!- Ortez has joined. 21:54:55 -!- SchrodingersCat has left (?). 22:01:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:01:05 hi Ortez 22:01:08 haven't seen you here before 22:01:33 You have seen Zetro befor? ;) 22:02:00 I don't remember a Zetro here either 22:02:04 hmm, name rings a bell... 22:02:06 #corewars maybe? 22:02:10 ```aqhew 22:02:25 oerjan: wut 22:02:31 oerjan: you're missing a backquote and several function definitions there 22:02:35 yes i have been on #corewars 22:02:39 Ortez backwards = Zetro! Duh. 22:02:50 Ortez: ok :) 22:02:51 hi! 22:02:53 ais523: ey ey 22:02:53 even if that's Lazy Bird not Unlambda, you're still missing a backquote 22:03:20 I think oerjan has lost his mind (note: different from going insane.) 22:04:13 ehird: ys!qqnj 22:04:40 Slereah: by the way, here's how you can do input in lazy bird: 22:05:16 hmm 22:05:20 how does it do it currently? 22:05:20 with _ 22:05:30 Yeah 22:05:35 yeah I mean 22:05:36 Converts input into church numerals 22:05:36 how does _ work 22:05:37 :P 22:05:43 Slereah: like, how 22:05:45 do you do `_f? 22:05:48 what is f passed? 22:05:59 What's f? 22:06:02 oerjan: fungot 22:06:03 ais523: in intercal, programs other than variable ranges and expressions; in particular, this time setting the pins that are sending. however, the operands themselves are pattern templates specifying what precedences actually are. this explanation assumes that the number of 0 causes the current line; if you are not always right 22:06:07 ): aw spue+sjapun auo ou 22:06:07 slereah: a plcaeholder 22:06:28 fungot: what if I'm not always right? 22:06:29 ais523: 7.9 try again 22:06:35 fair enough 22:06:35 Well, `_f would wait for input, and be replaced by like `33f 22:06:46 And then `f`f`f...`f 22:06:47 Slereah: ah. and why doesn't this work? 22:07:14 Well, it works, but the problem is the order. 22:07:15 laziness, obviously 22:07:18 Yeah. 22:07:21 it's the Lazy Bird equivalent of unsafePerformIO 22:07:25 Slereah: ok, add this function: 22:07:27 as in, it doesn't do what you expect 22:07:48 `!xy -- when this is evaluated: forces the full evaluation of x, then evaluates to whatever y evaluates to 22:07:49 tada 22:07:54 I was thinking of using >, such that `b`>a converts to `ba and then a is evaluated 22:07:59 Or something 22:09:10 But well, much like this language, I'm a bit lazy right now. 22:09:20 :D 22:13:02 -!- Slereah2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:20:46 f 22:20:50 f 22:22:38 p 22:23:28 o 22:24:15 q 22:24:43 ...o 22:25:13 a 22:25:51 m! 22:25:57 O 22:26:15 -!- oklofok has changed nick to Oklopol. 22:26:40 capital error 22:28:21 ## fucking imap fucking sucks. what the FUCK kind of committee of dunces 22:28:21 ## designed this shit. 22:30:28 sum(imap(operator.mul,u,v)) 22:30:31 -!- GregorR_ has joined. 22:30:35 heh 22:31:03 My computer restarted for no reason. No power outage, just restarted. 22:31:23 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.). 22:31:27 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR. 22:31:31 What language is that? 22:31:45 python 22:31:59 ah, didn't recognize the operator.mul thingy 22:32:15 import operator 22:32:38 GregorR: just fyi, my vista never does that. 22:33:17 Oklopol: Yes, I strongly suspect this is a software problem, which is why I mentioned the software at all. 22:33:44 GregorR: stop doing that 22:33:56 what are the chars used for back/forward one word in terminals again? 22:33:59 i forgoooottttt 22:34:53 also, amazingly: it seems that there are some people in blognomic's IRC channels who have never seen various xkcd comics before 22:35:06 how, uh, amazing? 22:38:51 Saturday classes meet 14 times during the semester and meet for 54 minutes of instruction for each hour of instruction. 22:39:26 i see 22:39:35 ais523, examples? 22:39:51 the guaranteed-to-be-random dice-roll random number 22:39:54 someone linked it 22:40:03 and there were comments implying that the people who it was linked to had never seen it 22:40:38 Example comment? 22:41:00 Sgeo: are you conducting a freaking scientific investigation on this matter? :P 22:41:13 That reminds me of http://xkcd.com/221/ awesome. 22:41:14 * Sgeo is curious 22:41:25 What was the situation reminding Hix of that? 22:41:32 ;_; 22:41:46 me talking about how ehird was trying to get control over random numbers in B Nomic 22:41:57 err what 22:42:08 ? 22:42:28 by replacing the dice server with your own email address, surely you remember that? 22:42:41 comex proposed that, ais523 22:42:55 can you drop the mental association you obviously have of "b nomic & bad => elliott did it"? kthx 22:43:12 I'm sure you were complicit 22:43:18 lol 22:43:31 ais523: no, I laughed at it and it never got on a ballot. 22:44:11 I think this channel is an appropriate place to discuss the most expensive ways to die. 22:44:40 Execution by firing squad, with guns loaded with Faberge eggs. 22:44:54 ... 22:44:58 irritating kerlo so that he talks to you so much you die 22:45:05 ais523: it's kerlo. just go along with it. 22:45:07 kerlo: this is not the place for that 22:45:09 Oh. 22:45:13 Oklopol: whyever not 22:45:17 i'll just tell you it's trivial to spend any amount of money on it. 22:45:30 case closed 22:45:49 That does sound expensive, as I'm not all that irritable. 22:45:54 -!- alex89ru has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:46:07 also this O thing isn't working for me 22:46:09 -!- Oklopol has changed nick to oklopol. 22:46:16 i'm not a very upper case person i guess :| 22:46:42 so ais523 where are you ircing from, is the university open at this hour? 22:48:39 kerlo: wait, aren't faberge eggs a bit larger than bullets? 22:48:44 noop() 22:48:44 Sends a NOOP command to the server. It does nothing. 22:51:39 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:52:22 also, i would suggest burning at the stake on a bonfire made of thousand dollar bills 22:53:20 oerjan: the guns have to be made out of resilin. 22:54:50 also, i think the LHC black hole would turn out rather expensive, all damage included 22:55:03 -!- Ortez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:55:19 Indeed. 22:55:51 it seems this has to end up with destroying the universe somehow. try a false vacuum collapse. 22:56:14 Exploding due to an antimatter overdose. 22:57:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:58:12 -!- Corun has joined. 22:59:20 Heavy metal poisoning due to gold. 23:01:47 false vacuum collapse sounds fun 23:02:40 GregorR: what's that life-ruining video again 23:02:44 Buying the United States Army and ordering them to shoot you. 23:03:02 how much would it cost to buy the US army, I wonder? 23:03:15 ais523: I don't imagine it is for sale. 23:03:29 taking so many coins they collapse into a black hole 23:03:33 well first you'd have to buy congress, which is easy 23:03:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-k9C3v9Ng0&feature=channel_page 23:03:39 ehird: ^ 23:03:44 *badum* 23:03:54 Name any price, it's probably a low guess. 23:04:04 writing such an amount of zeroes on a check the amount of paper collapses into a black hole 23:04:06 ehird: exactly, that's why it would have to be expensive 23:04:24 ^ easy to generalize the exponential growth in cost there 23:04:25 oklopol: High guess, though they're probably not going to take the offer anyways. 23:05:06 GregorR: :'( 23:05:22 ehird: Enjoy your miserable depression! 23:05:40 GregorR: I gave the link to someone else, so it's OK. 23:05:46 They can be sad too. 23:09:10 GregorR: nice story 23:09:31 cery classy for its genre 23:11:52 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 23:14:35 ehird: you might like this webpage: http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/controls.htm#CONTROLS53 23:14:46 it's all about interface design stupidities 23:14:56 ooooh 23:15:45 [[The folks at Ryka, a manufacturer of women's shoes, wanted to be certain that no potential customers could be excluded. Thus, rather than providing option (or radio) buttons to indicate one's gender, they decided to use checkboxes, to allow the potential customer to indicate Male, Female, or, well, both, and for that matter, none. We found this especially interesting given the company motto, "Exclusively for women by women." Inclusiveness must be "in".]] 23:16:07 um, ever heard of transgender etc? 23:16:10 admittedly that's crap UI for that 23:16:19 no, that's wrong 23:16:29 there are at least 4 transgender genders 23:16:38 and that box doesn't let you specify which you are 23:16:48 male/female/other is considered acceptable, though 23:16:54 they should just not ask 23:16:57 if you're even caring about gender, why would you do that? 23:17:03 the company doesn't need to know my gender, so stop trying to dat amine 23:17:04 *datamine 23:17:52 "Cancel button before the OK button" <- heh, that's _good_ OS X design practice 23:18:07 the main thing is to not contradict the conventions on your platform 23:18:12 yes 23:18:25 they have an ordering? 23:18:32 i've never noticed 23:18:34 I would complain about a Gnome application which put cancel to the right, just as much as I'd complain about a KDE application which put cancel to the left 23:18:52 Gnome is (optional alternate OK), Cancel, normal OK 23:19:50 KDE has normal OK and cancel the other way round 23:23:21 *very 23:23:40 almost left a typo in there :| 23:24:10 (btw for future reference, if someone notices a typo i've left uncorrected, please inform me.) 23:24:34 what 23:25:03 23:25:49 "OzWin-specific commands, ^M^J in the text." 23:25:50 fail 23:30:15 what's wrong with the three sorting fields thing 23:31:23 "there is no way to indicate that you want to sort on any less" <<< to indicate you do *not* want to specify how to sort if two values are equal? how useful! 23:31:46 oklopol: what if you want to keep it stable? 23:31:57 ais523: true, true. 23:32:37 but i don't see that as worse than just choosing one. of course, i guess some people might see is at kinda stupid. 23:36:24 -!- ais523 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 23:36:55 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:50:01 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:53:09 -!- Judofyr has joined. 23:53:17 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection).