< 1235174721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one submitted any entries for XYZ? < 1235174733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh n/m < 1235175391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:00 ={:'a'z..?{'a-13+26%}if} ninjacode, without much thought < 1235175394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa ninjacode rot13 :D < 1235175455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=~1+.' C~ < 1235175456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettyyyy < 1235175504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=~1+.' C~ is possibly the best code I've ever written. < 1235175563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a good language to learn for jobs < 1235175617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java. < 1235175618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :php. < 1235175621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c#. < 1235175622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vb. < 1235175652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about C++? < 1235175665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in the games industry. < 1235175692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: btw, a mainstream programming job is about the most soul-destroying thing you could do. < 1235175697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would reconsider. < 1235175704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso? < 1235175713 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are you assuming that from TDWTF? < 1235175714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: y'know thedailywtf? < 1235175717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's everyday. < 1235175720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1235175728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had many conversations over the years :P < 1235175741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{'{C:.'}C.}'{C:.'}C. <- ninjacode quine, awesome < 1235175763 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't find any information on ninjacode < 1235175767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lang < 1235175772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa jan 08 < 1235175789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary, from then: < 1235175789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. small code size, for golfing 2. easy to refactor to be smaller 3. mostly written in itself, as an stdlib: a very big stdlib, with tons and tons of stuff 4. the core is just a very simple kernel written in C, which compiles the very small core it provides to native code (!!!) and then the rest is done by the stdlib < 1235175803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite elegantering. < 1235175822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elegant, v. to make more elegant) < 1235175893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link to interp and docs? < 1235175898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahaha < 1235175913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infer whatever from that < 1235175946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i infer that you are infernal < 1235175956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to learn ninjacode@! < 1235175956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oerjan can I rent your swatter < 1235175957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1235175973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes; that will be 3 cuils < 1235176026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubled if you swat me < 1235176047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there's no compiler, nor docs. < 1235176048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i infer there are no docs < 1235176055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I am now tempted to revive the project. < 1235176064 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it@ < 1235176065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1235176069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can explain 0=~1+.' C~ to you, if you want < 1235176073 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1235176081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it linecounts a file < 1235176090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a\nb\nc -> 1 a\n2 b\n3 c < 1235176098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, 0 pushes 0 to the stack < 1235176103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is like perl -p < 1235176106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically: < 1235176125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := means 'while there is input: read line, push to stack, run rest of program, print Top of Stack (popping it), repeat' < 1235176137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ means swap, so we get the 0 on the top of the stack, not the input < 1235176139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+ increments it < 1235176141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. outputs it < 1235176144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' <- note the space < 1235176149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'c is the ascii num of char c < 1235176153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C prints a character from its ascii code < 1235176159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~ swaps again, making the input line the ToS < 1235176161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's printed < 1235176164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the line count is still there < 1235176167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the new line is pushed < 1235176167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1235176242 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235176335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: get it? < 1235176343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of < 1235176352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't you get :-D < 1235176427 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235176574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, I'm just not that focused on it. Would "2+" be increment of two? < 1235176711 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235176780 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235176827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1235176829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stack-based. < 1235177108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1235177131 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS IT STACK-BASED!!!!? < 1235177161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1235177223 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said < 1235177459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, is it stack-based? < 1235177481 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1235177492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily < 1235177914 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1235178080 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES THAT MEAN IT IS STACK BASED!? < 1235178096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rot13 drome: greeny <-> terral < 1235178116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotiedrome! < 1235178481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is stack based. The evidence is shaky to say the least. < 1235178662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god. < 1235178667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next ubuntu: "karmic koala" < 1235178669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not fucking kidding < 1235178693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a word < 1235178709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KARMIC < 1235178710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1235178711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOALA < 1235178746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "fucking" was part of the name, I'd understand the issue here < 1235178805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic Koala Engaged in Intercourse < 1235178808 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic Kuk Koala? < 1235178825 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does norwegian have the word "kuk"? < 1235179028 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1235179083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic Cock Koala < 1235179165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1235179167 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NotAnAlliterationException < 1235179212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a norwegian band named "Brutal Kuk", i hear < 1235179236 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how impolite and provocative of them < 1235179248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kock Koala < 1235179250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cock Coala < 1235179251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick one < 1235179287 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, coala is a synonym for koala, according to dictionary.reference.com < 1235179325 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cock Coala works then, although I guess the sequence of release names requires a 'k'-alliteration < 1235179338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also have a giant phallus as a concert prop < 1235179418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phallic phallus should be the fifth ubuntu release from now < 1235179452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, that will be Perfect Panda < 1235179457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1235179498 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penile p-something < 1235179533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm in case you didn't notice it was ehird who inserted the rude words < 1235179557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penile piss. < 1235179559 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1235179564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1235179576 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do we really care about such things in #esoteric? < 1235179611 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends whether our pedantics or our gay sex drive is strongest at the moment < 1235179636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedantic gay sex. < 1235179637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BEST! < 1235179664 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would you suggest instead of mainstream programming? < 1235179669 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly pedantics < 1235179687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make a startup, suck paul graham's dick, fail to be bought out, die of starvation. < 1235179690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, then we care, duh < 1235179730 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, gay sex => not caring about rude words? < 1235179749 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and non-gay sex => caring? < 1235179784 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't have gay sex without naughty words, olsner < 1235179788 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now suck my dick < 1235179795 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: seldom would I ever < 1235179801 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no offence) < 1235179825 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, naughty words exist without sex < 1235179835 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But where's the fun in that < 1235179852 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some kind of logical fallacy (phallosy?) involved < 1235179884 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phallucy < 1235179906 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+spelling, obviously < 1235179938 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaginal phallucy < 1235179945 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what the hell are you talking about you satanic infidel < 1235179958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :what the fuck are you fucking about you satanic GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1235179973 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: have some fermented milk you norwegian person! < 1235179984 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :what the fuck are you fucking about you satanic GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1235179984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you missed the point, which was to have naughty words _without_ sex < 1235180000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naughty sex without words < 1235180013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy, but not in a topic < 1235180031 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verily < 1235180038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well would be easy if i could get some < 1235180049 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, emily deschanel <3 < 1235180070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is so fucking weird < 1235180071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, #wikipedia is deluged < 1235180074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also weird at fucking < 1235180104 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was ever fucking in #esoteric, it would probably be quite generic < 1235180113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deluged, or just deluded? and deranged. < 1235180131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Wikipedia is down, and the error message points there < 1235180141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1235180142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not down for me < 1235180142 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: deluged, deluded and deranged! < 1235180143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up < 1235180144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;\ < 1235180146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: kefir då? < 1235180155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wikipedia is BROKEN for most users" < 1235180181 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haven't had fil in a few weeks though... besides, kefir is essentially the same as fil < 1235180204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kefir mjølk, kefir ikkje kaffi < 1235180224 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kefir är fan inte mjölk, det är ett som är säkert! < 1235180266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you wouldn't happen to have a youtube clip of an angry norwegian? < 1235180284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some contention over beer whether or not norwegians had the ability to be angry < 1235180291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's actually a pun on "kefir" sounding like it _could_ be nynorsk for "hvorfor" / "why" < 1235180306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some comedians did that in a sketch or something < 1235180328 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, obtruse (obstuse? obscure?) < 1235180335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual nynorsk is "kvifor") < 1235180347 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I see the fun of it < 1235180382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks wp < 1235180406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm hanging < 1235180425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vunderbar. < 1235180435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm actually not at youtube much < 1235180444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My external brain enhancement. :/ < 1235180479 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the best thing about norwegians though is that their english sounds like the keepers of the continuum transfunctioner < 1235180492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1235180494 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually) < 1235180506 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true! < 1235180517 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's friggin hilarious! < 1235180520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a keeper of the continuum transfunctioner? < 1235180538 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, from the movie dude where's my car < 1235180587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: here's an oldie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHT_Lu0OoAI < 1235180672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there was this washmashine repair thing... < 1235180689 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXMcp94Y-9U < 1235180696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's just a sound file < 1235180705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The deluge in #wikipedia has stopped < 1235180732 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, so we can continue it in here now then? < 1235180760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but we have no bots to spam with < 1235180805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's back, I think < 1235180818 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, we have no humans to provide contents with? < 1235180836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lispmachine.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-key/ <-- Biggest retard ever. < 1235180879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mörnin < 1235180884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oklopol < 1235180896 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not ... dangit no compose key < 1235180901 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyvvä < 1235180916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes very gdodd. < 1235180934 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: orly!? just guessing damnit :P < 1235180935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: god morgon < 1235180955 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, 'hyvvä' I have actually learnt at some time < 1235180982 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yxi kaxi kolme hyvvä ei saa peittää parasta ennen < 1235180994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/x/ks/g < 1235180995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235181006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: one error left. < 1235181015 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... getting your finnish corrected by the norwegian < 1235181040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i don't know that one < 1235181049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i already hinted. < 1235181063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1235181068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hyvvä ||| oklopol: olsner: yes very gdodd. <<< this is, in fact, a pun < 1235181078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1235181080 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyyvä? < 1235181085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235181117 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hejj hhej heej hej < 1235181136 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it's "hyvä", this is one of the 5 exceptional words where there are no double-letters, what ever the term is for those < 1235181173 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf! < 1235181188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235181196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most words have redundant letters? < 1235181197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to check my dictionary, tbh. < 1235181206 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a double-v and a short-y with the accent on the last 'ä', right? < 1235181224 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does hyva mean? And pretend that the a has those two dots < 1235181266 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're finnish, you should know < 1235181280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can't have accent on the last "ä", all accents are on the first syllable; which btw is something all languages should do. < 1235181299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oklopol -----### < 1235181311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, what do you mean, I'm finnish? < 1235181313 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accent might not be what I'm actually referring to < 1235181322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stress < 1235181332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emphasis < 1235181333 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're not!!?? ok, maybe you aren't < 1235181342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressure < 1235181344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it the nick? < 1235181346 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, something along those lines < 1235181346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push < 1235181352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weight < 1235181353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the nick make you think I'm finnish? < 1235181359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah, sgeo is finnish for dumbass < 1235181375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals oerjan's swatter < 1235181386 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oerjan -----### < 1235181390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ouch* < 1235181395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be 6 cuils < 1235181404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not paying < 1235181406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1235181408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION takes his swatter back < 1235181408 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a few ascii tables and builds himself a swatter < 1235181412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sg" isn't very finnishy. < 1235181417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sssh < 1235181420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god you suck at finnish < 1235181422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. < 1235181427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dyslexic finn, then < 1235181439 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows 0 finnish < 1235181440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you think i didn't know that? < 1235181445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well no < 1235181462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just playing my part in the convo. < 1235181483 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and this is the part where you tell us we suck? < 1235181494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1235181502 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense, actually, but it's kind of harsh < 1235181528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think "god you suck at finnish" is an insult < 1235181540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suukkaani enormousilainen < 1235181553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a woman telling me i menstruate like a dried up piece of wood < 1235181579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wtf :D < 1235181595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that your own translation? < 1235181602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_now_ you can tell me i suck at finnish :D < 1235181602 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, I could understand that! :P < 1235181603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could translate it back < 1235181618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's awesome < 1235181655 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the love of , translate it back anyway < 1235181668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"enormousilainen" is a perfectly contructed name for a citizen of enormous (or enormousi) < 1235181702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suukkaani" would probably be the inessive of "suukka", which is perfect finnish, but means absolutely nothing < 1235181738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want "suukkaan", which is the first person of the verb "suukata", which again means nothing < 1235181739 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm oerjan, the inessive of suukka of enormous!" < 1235181757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sukata" is sometimes used for "suck" < 1235181778 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, sukani would mean what? < 1235181782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i have a feeling this is more interesting to me than it is to you ppl, so i think i'm gonna get me some pizza < 1235181782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1235181785 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1235181793 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the place closed 2 minutes ago :D < 1235181816 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you're stuck with the delusions of the rest of us < 1235181816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i know -ni can be a 1st person suffix but probably nouns only? < 1235181845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it would be the possessive of the noun "suka", which is something you brush animals with < 1235181864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: possessive < 1235181871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my X" < 1235181875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1235181918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way "ni" could end a verb would be if it were in the potential, but it's rare even then, and the potential isn't really used. < 1235181931 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are they called "cases" or what was the term again?) < 1235181953 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in swedish, "kasus" < 1235181964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm cases are on nouns and adjectives usually < 1235181985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbs have tenses, aspects and moods < 1235181989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wouldn't suggest learning the potential anyway, since about 5% of the finnish population is able to form it < 1235181992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 5% being me. < 1235182021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubbish there are only 5 finns so you mean 20% < 1235182023 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tenses, aspects and moods... and here I've only learned the difference betweem tenses < 1235182023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, i mated.) < 1235182034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ for oerjan < 1235182038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1235182039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said that < 1235182040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for him < 1235182042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235182044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1235182092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tenses might include the others too, i'm a bit unclear on that < 1235182100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: congrats on the topic, i assumed it was ehird's. < 1235182109 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, tenses and moods and the others are pretty distinct < 1235182115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nah < 1235182127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the posessive the other" < 1235182134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_tense < 1235182144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also lists voice and person < 1235182146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK < 1235182159 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYA < 1235182172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GTFO < 1235182187 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBQ! < 1235182205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASL < 1235182219 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :papapa-oom-mow-mow, papa-oom-mow-mow < 1235182222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19/m/fi < 1235182245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to think about the number for a while < 1235182250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :38/m/no < 1235182282 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a month till it changes, then probably another month of confusion when i'm learning the new one. < 1235182303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dang i was looking for chicks. < 1235182314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the age difference could be in the other direction < 1235182319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except may a teensy bit less. < 1235182323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe < 1235182347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any chicks here since sukoshi? < 1235182348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean an irc chat with a newborn might not be all that fruitful. < 1235182352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235182368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotidlerchick, although i heard from a reliable ehird he was actually a me < 1235182372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never know. < 1235182373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAWAWA DA DA BABABA DA < 1235182395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MU < 1235182396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that means < 1235182399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good for you. < 1235182426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually a me? that sounds serious < 1235182440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1235182474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shakes away the confusion and assumes oklopol was joking < 1235182497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was only joking in how i said what i said < 1235182500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in what i meant < 1235182515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard from a reliable source hotidlerchick was actually oklopol. < 1235182528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute < 1235182548 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could believe that, except you are implying ehird is a reliable source < 1235182562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay that may have been confusing. < 1235182565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235182570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know. < 1235182578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said something about the ip's being the same < 1235182584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he deceived you. it's so easy to do. < 1235182593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that oklopol was probably doing the "i have a girl in here with me" gag < 1235182621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i know oklopol at all, which i probably don't, that does sound like something he would do < 1235182627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you'd think he'd do it a bit better. < 1235182644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i remember that, i assumed her name was Elisa Laajakaista < 1235182645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, actually continue doing it until people believed him. < 1235182649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235182686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"broadband" would make a nice nickname for a girl < 1235182709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the next "shop" closes in 40 minutes. < 1235182710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235182713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to leave soon < 1235182718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can get my satisfaction < 1235182739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you have to work through the snow upwards in both directions < 1235182741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*walk < 1235182755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also work, of course, with those 5 feet < 1235182767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(measurement, not anatomy) < 1235182784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually just fetched my bike from my parent's house < 1235182792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235182794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be easy. < 1235183010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in seven minutes < 1235183011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will < 1235183012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go < 1235183149 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is twice the age of oklopol? nice < 1235183159 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barnarov, som vi säger på svenska < 1235183183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol isn't a child any longer < 1235183197 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not legally < 1235183227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i am eternally childish < 1235183266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is that like jb? < 1235183291 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more like statutory rape I think < 1235183296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :P < 1235183304 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it's an act not a person < 1235183628 0 :shapr!n=shapr@207-172-212-164.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.static.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1235183632 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitta? < 1235183650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh? < 1235183660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 20 inches < 1235183665 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oj < 1235183668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr! < 1235183670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai, mimasita? < 1235183685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1235183689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrrrry -> < 1235183689 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, you're at an edu address, I thought Finns were not for export? < 1235183694 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hej oerjan! < 1235183701 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Vad gör du? < 1235183704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is no finn < 1235183710 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1235183712 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was worried for a second. < 1235183718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omtrent ingenting < 1235183718 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that looked like japanese. < 1235183726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was romanised Japanese. < 1235183736 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1235183747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mitta" is "measure" or "length" in finnish. < 1235183758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that what you were going for? < 1235183764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oklopol -----### < 1235183764 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I was going for "what?" in Finnish. < 1235183770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1235183772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's past tense of "to see" in Japanese. < 1235183781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same error as olsner did earlier < 1235183784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Casual past tense, rather. < 1235183787 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the Boston way to talk about things that keep your hands warm. < 1235183799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. it's that error plus another error < 1235183802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan can correct it < 1235183805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes -> < 1235183805 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well, you might know Finnish, but I know... um.. how to UNICYCLE! < 1235183810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH! < 1235183812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a unicycle < 1235183815 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235183818 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? what sort? < 1235183823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic kind < 1235183824 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boings cheerfully < 1235183827 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20" wheel? < 1235183835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err dunno, ages since i used it < 1235183837 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, can I show you pix of my unicycle? < 1235183838 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that. < 1235183841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1235183856 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is getting url.. < 1235183870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think we can all learn something from his last words: 'Wow, a unicycle! I haven't seen those since I was a little kid!'" < 1235183874 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://picasaweb.google.com/shae.erisson/OakMountainUnicycling# < 1235183874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i just bought it to learn the skill, i'm not actually that interested in the actual biking...) < 1235183892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks just like mine < 1235183897 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1235183908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i recognize the perverted seat < 1235183909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1235183910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1235183913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 minutes < 1235183913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :left < 1235183914 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :26"x3.7" ? < 1235183914 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1235183915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1235183919 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, bye < 1235183925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. < 1235183925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1235183949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is suffering from pizza withdrawal < 1235183956 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1235183966 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a monster fried steak sub, so I am sated. < 1235184144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountain unicycle, now that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen < 1235184154 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lot of fun. < 1235184169 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I bet you're a lot younger now than I was when I learned to unicycle. < 1235184209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- 38 < 1235184257 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, I'm wrong :-) < 1235184263 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are in fact, older than I am now! < 1235184285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i thought, especially after seeing your picture < 1235184290 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1235184335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm one of the oldest regulars here though < 1235184348 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too! < 1235184352 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I'm not a regular < 1235184359 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not _yet_ < 1235184369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you've been here before :) < 1235184370 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd love to reimplement many of wouter van oortmerssen's languages. < 1235184375 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since he won't release them :-( < 1235184386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1235184399 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'd like to figure out how to get Aardappel to work! < 1235184403 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you guys can tell me? < 1235184418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not me < 1235184427 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone? anyone? < 1235184439 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Haskell no longer counts as an esoteric language? < 1235184450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid this is a silent period on this channel < 1235184458 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quiet < 1235184470 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell used to be esoteric! < 1235184486 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about seven years ago < 1235184488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a bit more stringent definition, usually < 1235184509 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the stringent definition? < 1235184538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot be intended for practical use < 1235184560 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Haskell wasn't? < 1235184560 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1235184571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it was? < 1235184594 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Haskell was designed to be purely a research language.. it was hoped to be an open source version of Miranda. < 1235184606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i remember reading. < 1235184614 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the hopl paper < 1235184701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it being a research language does not make it esoteric. < 1235184709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes it *interesting*. < 1235184709 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235184733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, a research language could be esoteric without too much effort. < 1235184760 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235184790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language < 1235184805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's as close to official as we get here < 1235184918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if we should make a less insulting topic < 1235185082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The intergalactic hub for esoteric programming language madness and denuement | Logs: http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki < 1235185332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr: on closer look that looks nothing like mine :D < 1235185337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was looking at the thumbnails < 1235185342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wheel is huge. < 1235185403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr: Heck, I'd like to figure out how to get Aardappel to work! <<< dl it and run it? < 1235185443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean you want to learn to program in it, then i suggest you read wouter's paper on it < 1235185444 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Not that easy < 1235185449 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I tried that too. < 1235185464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oaky < 1235185492 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, 26 inch wheel, 3.7 inches across < 1235185514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how old were you when you learned to unicycle < 1235185518 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 < 1235185534 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started capoeira when I was 37 < 1235185534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1235185557 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I emailed Wouter asking for more help using Aardappel, he said to read his thesis. < 1235185597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually at 30, people work, and don't really live anymore. < 1235185645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1235185648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235185657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the problem with just reading it? < 1235185666 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not enough. < 1235185675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1235185683 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either I'm clueless, or there just isn't any instruction on how to actually write code with Aardappel in his thesis. < 1235185693 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thesis talks about the implementation, lots of cool stuff there. < 1235185699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pretty new to all stuff when i was reading it, so i got enough out of it before even getting to the details of aardappel. < 1235185702 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how the heck do I drag the little boxes around to make stuff work? < 1235185710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like omg tree rewriting my brain explodes this is so cool. < 1235185714 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you can actually wite code with Aardappel? < 1235185723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've written some little "snippets" < 1235185728 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1235185752 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This weekend I may bug you to show me how :-) < 1235185759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, i probably didn't emphasize the "little" enough there < 1235185779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've written anything that would even qualify as a useful function. < 1235185783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: too late, you're the official expert now < 1235185788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235185840 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins < 1235185862 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: How old were you when you learned to unicycle? < 1235185884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr: maybe 12 or something < 1235185887 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235185896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i felt like learning the basic circus stuff < 1235185897 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old are you now? < 1235185901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19 < 1235185903 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, can you do backflips and stuff? < 1235185916 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nothing you can't learn gradually. < 1235185950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i learn slowly, but i don't get tired with stuff. < 1235185956 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tired? < 1235185964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1235185965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1235185967 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1235185969 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bored? < 1235185975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget words when i learn new stuff. < 1235185975 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1235185976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1235185977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235185978 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't lose interest < 1235185982 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! < 1235186008 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you, Espoo? < 1235186022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turku < 1235186024 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235186052 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Boston. < 1235186065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the cigarettes? < 1235186071 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cold here... not quite Rovaniemi cold, but cold. < 1235186079 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston smokes? < 1235186080 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1235186089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm :) < 1235187274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston... Nice city. < 1235187281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too fond of the weather, though. < 1235187310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far too hot & humid in the summer. < 1235187319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1235187428 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm more of an Alabama kind of guy. < 1235187445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer Colorado, myself. < 1235187583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's never been to the country < 1235187646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try being, say, 100 miles from most everything some day. < 1235187684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm already about 5 meters from everything < 1235187698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a specific instance of anything of interest < 1235187986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls a friend telling about an australian bragging how he lived 3 hours drive away from the closest city < 1235188052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, this friend at the time lived in Svalbard, so he responded that he too lived 3 hours away from the closest city - by jet plane < 1235188083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235188092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more about where the closest shop is < 1235188101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where the nearest internet is < 1235188106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need anything else < 1235188292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't i drink coffee all day long < 1235188336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want like a coffee *machine*, like < 1235188341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thingie that makes me coffee < 1235188342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all day < 1235189303 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lived in Tornio for two years. < 1235189381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an espresso machine, myself. < 1235189387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, espresso... < 1235189418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 3 hours away by jet plane? That is rather impressive, I must admit. < 1235189453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may or may not remember the number right < 1235189480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And looking at the Wikipedia page, I understand how. < 1235189509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archipelagio halfway between Norway and the North Pole? Damn. < 1235189538 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tornio isn't nearly as remote as Svalbard. < 1235189551 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nowadays, I live about a mile from MIT and a mile from Harvard. < 1235189560 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And half a mile from Tufts < 1235189569 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ten minutes drive away from quite a few universities. < 1235189602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. You'd be right about where I was at last summer... < 1235189626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION worked at Tufts as an assistant UNIX sys-admin < 1235189685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mit and harvard are that close? < 1235189695 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know Dave the sysadmin/IT guy with the blondish ponytail? Just had his first kid? < 1235189700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you just live in a very curious location < 1235189712 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You can almost throw rocks from MIT to Harvard. < 1235189735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had *met* Dave... < 1235189745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly, I knew Shawn. < 1235189751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you happen to know how good the harvard cs stuff is? < 1235189762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was staying with him, so...) < 1235189765 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: They have some decent type theorists. < 1235189768 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah, I see. < 1235189772 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave is my next door neighbor. < 1235189780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1235189799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i thought i'd go abroad, but then i learned they study automata here, so now i have no idea what to do. < 1235189816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean CA < 1235189837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah, MIT and Harvard are very, very close. < 1235189847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it one or two stops between them on the Red Line? < 1235189889 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Massachusetts+Institute+of+Tech+(MIT)&daddr=1+Mass+Ave,+Cambridge,+MA+02138+(Harvard+University)&hl=en&geocode=FYNchgIdwS3D-yEGyTcCu2HJiQ%3BCVAVqufD1WnRFa5ShgId_DXD-yFiyQC9d1EFug&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=42.365298,-71.101678&sspn=0.031835,0.066004&ie=UTF8&z=18 < 1235189913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the red line? seems it's a finnish opera < 1235189925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the MBTA's subway lines. < 1235189944 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so you'd need a baseball player to actually hit Harvard from MIT... < 1235189969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. "institute of technology", i've never really even checked what the name comes from. < 1235189975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice cs in mit? < 1235189984 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1235189993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned good, I've heard. < 1235189994 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't impress me, but I like type theory, purely functional lanuages, etc < 1235190030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not impressed by one of the few US universities to teach CS using Scheme? < 1235190032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish there were good objective resources on universities. < 1235190042 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh don't get me wrong, I love SICP. < 1235190056 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that computer science means a lot more to me now than it did when I read SICP. < 1235190063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1235190088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: would you settle for functional ones? < 1235190091 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays I look at Pierce's Types and Programming Languages as the ABCs of computer science. < 1235190104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: damn should've seen that coming :D < 1235190112 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235190139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer a Homespringative resource on universities, though not for reasons I'm proud of. < 1235190143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's true there's no reason to teach programming using an actual programming language < 1235190176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in fact our advanced programming courses do not use programming languages < 1235190194 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I'd like to take classes in FORTH and type theory at the same time :-) < 1235190256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is Chris Diggins's Cat < 1235190266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we're less of a computation university and more of an application university. < 1235190498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1235190502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 6:30 < 1235190510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably start considering the sleeping. < 1235190522 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nakimiin < 1235190524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the reading. < 1235190530 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gönatt < 1235190532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering, but haven't decided yet < 1235190537 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sov gott < 1235190546 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etcetera < 1235190883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1235191028 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I went to a gathering of Swedes recently... < 1235191035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235191051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come factorials look so nice < 1235191084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are such pretty numbers < 1235191121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looking in base 10, but i'm pretty sure they're pretty in other bases too. < 1235191147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, because they have many factors? < 1235191236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's pretty much what i'm asking, how come numbers look pretty when they're very composite < 1235191245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235191251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact that's kinda obvious. < 1235191310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't at first, but i wasn't really aiming for a mathematical question, more like you know aesthetic. < 1235191312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1235191312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1235191492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-time -> < 1235191663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1235193271 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235194478 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1235195810 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1235195835 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235195859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235195882 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235195892 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHAZAM! < 1235195979 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1235196002 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235196034 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235196058 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-120-245.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235197809 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235203199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1235203200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1235208855 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235208872 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1235209589 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235210239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235210249 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235210736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that was ...surreal, i lie down for like 20 minutes, thinking what time it is, then, i decide to get up, and halfway through my quick rise into a sitting position the alarm clock starts ringing < 1235210751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: human instincts are easily trained < 1235210768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you set your alarm for the same time every day, after a while you'll find yourself waking up pre-emptively to hear it ring < 1235210796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday i set the clock at 7:20 and 19:30, now it was 12:00 < 1235210813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not "at" but anyway < 1235210909 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more ideas? :) < 1235210940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well when I was waking up on alarm clock every day a few years ago, I managed to wake up before the clock no matter when I set it < 1235210947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like my body had some sort of internal clock < 1235210949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, weird times < 1235210951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw those aren't even exact times, i randomize the last digit pretty uniformly < 1235210983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't you an alarm clock anymore? < 1235211001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents normally wake me up < 1235211012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they wake up at much the same time as I want to wake up < 1235211029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1235211037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parents are an awesome alarm clock < 1235211047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :girlfriends not so much :< < 1235211061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have a girlfriend? < 1235211071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a lot of things < 1235211117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i mean yes < 1235211280 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a slave boy too ;D < 1235211281 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1235211353 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235211359 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats new in the world of esoterics < 1235211387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing much, I've been asleep < 1235211391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slept 16 hours yesterday < 1235211395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nothing much from me < 1235211402 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun :) < 1235211427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping is not all that fun. < 1235211433 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its really not < 1235211469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but waking up and then going to sleep again is one of the greatest feelings there are < 1235211490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling asleep is a wonderful feeling < 1235211495 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're tired. < 1235211539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you want something new: http://clc.intercal.org.uk/ < 1235211546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL has a spiffy new website < 1235211551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes sure, i guess you could generalize it to that < 1235211556 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by spiffy you mean not < 1235211558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just always tired when i wake up. < 1235211562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have anything to do with that, but I'm probably going to profit from it anyway < 1235211563 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who isnt < 1235211754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugly page, should invert the colors < 1235211765 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use an interesting background < 1235211768 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i do :D < 1235211769 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net < 1235211775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah we know :) < 1235211786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to make a website about INTERCAL, I'd do something surprising < 1235211789 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i get those from glitches my computer has < 1235211794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like flourescent pink with pictures of flowers, or something < 1235211814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe an incredibly flashy flash animationy page < 1235211839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it should work in every browser that became popular ever < 1235211845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Netscape 1, and Mosaic < 1235211879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have ascii animations for ones without a gui < 1235211977 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-20-225.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1235212435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have you ever decided to learn to like a drink that tastes like a rotten space turtle? < 1235212460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235212508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there's this drink i hate, but it looks so delicious cuz it's all green < 1235212518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fetches it < 1235213475 0 :Hiato!n=hiato@dsl-245-3-235.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1235214255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's laugh-at-the-name-of-the-next-version-of-Ubuntu time again < 1235214458 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-14-215.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235215240 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1235215274 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1235215279 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it now? < 1235215334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karmic Koala < 1235215342 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolololol < 1235215345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the version for October 2009 < 1235215359 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what Q is going to be < 1235215360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or X < 1235215784 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235217920 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235219303 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1235219323 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235221188 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235221211 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-077-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1235221849 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235222211 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-138.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235222248 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235223199 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235223446 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235223671 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1235223994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"going to get lunch" < 1235224585 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235224630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you set your alarm for the same time every day, after a while you'll find yourself waking up pre-emptively to hear it ring < 1235224631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to happen for me < 1235224633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't any more :( < 1235224635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's like my body had some sort of internal clock < 1235224637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, uh, it does :P < 1235224651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:11:11 i have a lot of things < 1235224651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:11:57 ...i mean yes < 1235224670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the day when a straight answer is gottenered out of oklopol is a day of amazing. < 1235224768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm... it's laugh-at-the-name-of-the-next-version-of-Ubuntu time again < 1235224772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that yesterday, slowpoke. < 1235224823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: Hey, you're at an edu address, I thought Finns were not for export? < 1235224830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they fall under cryptography regulations < 1235224839 0 :Hiato!n=hiato@dsl-245-3-235.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1235224840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to their language, so obscure that only 5 people can understand it) < 1235224846 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1235224876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ooh, can I show you pix of my unicycle? < 1235224878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.O < 1235226229 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235226258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1235226267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1235226391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I dug up your tic tac toe BMP yesterday, and the logs then said you and rodgerthegreat found and/or gates and the like? < 1235226399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to make a bmp and gate but not much success < 1235226406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not repeatable gates < 1235226444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wans't aiming for repeatbe < 1235226446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeatable < 1235226467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically have to rely on multiple clicks < 1235226473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colouring black/blue/black to set the things off < 1235226489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235226493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to get just input clicks < 1235226493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1235226499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought of a more useful fill operation that could help: < 1235226511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you fill black on gray, and there's a line going gray, black, gray < 1235226514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crosses over the black < 1235226522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it fills both the colour you're filling and the colour you're filling to < 1235226531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be more useful, although not exactly a floodfill < 1235226589 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask M$ to implement it, we wanna code in Paint < 1235226610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers downloading the source to KolourPaint and tweaking it to do that < 1235226624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I updated to KDE 4.2 earlier this morning, haven't tried it out yet < 1235226627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm going to do that now < 1235226633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"switching to a different window manager" < 1235226651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr: ooh, aardappel < 1235226654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma download it to help you < 1235226817 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235226825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1235226833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't so broken I can't log into it, that's a start < 1235226838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many lightyears behind OS X is KDE now? 3? < 1235226989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really used OSX, so I can't easily compare < 1235226999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, I've decided I prefer gksudo to kdesudo < 1235227018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Kate seems to have disappeared, let me see what happened to it (I suspect it's a Kubuntu packaging screwup) < 1235227025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yowsers, editing Aardappel is hard < 1235227032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages are text based for a reason... < 1235227046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about colorforth < 1235227058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's text-based < 1235227064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the colours are just extra keys :P < 1235227066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't be edited with a normal text editor < 1235227072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't what I said < 1235227141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what non-text-based languages have I used? < 1235227150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1235227160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logicator which isn't all that bad, but which is slow and it's a pain to stop wires crossing < 1235227167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simulink which is awful, in more ways than one < 1235227197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that circuit editor thing I can't remember the name of which was actually quite good, but was converted into text in the backend I think < 1235227218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nice cs in mit? < 1235227222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i've heard it's considered the best < 1235227236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the stuff that comes/came out of there I'm inclined to agree < 1235227273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the look of the thing, I like the window decorations, the widgets for menus and dialog boxes are a bit ugly though < 1235227315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screeny of kde? < 1235227394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to get a good one for you < 1235227401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also shows the biggest problem for me atm, I wonder if it's fixable < 1235227430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, Squeak was forked recently to try and remove the educational-child-yaay-fluff and make it not hideous, and integrate better with the host OS < 1235227443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1235227444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think solves quite a lot of your complaints about squeak < 1235227448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screeny: http://pharo-project.org/pictures/41/p1boiza388rvo4mb1h7xxhm8g5ajji/pharo-screenshot-720.png < 1235227457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about the delay, I'm trying to find where the screenshot app/key is on here, I'm not used to it < 1235227462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print scr? < 1235227469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1235227733 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235227784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://filebin.ca/roupsd/kde4.2.png < 1235227806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the K Menu is blatantly stolen from Windows Vista, or vice versa, by the way < 1235227807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1235227811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tab-complete works cmd-style not sh-style < 1235227821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's prettier than kde3, that's for sure. < 1235227824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you set your alarm for the same time every day, after a while you'll find yourself waking up pre-emptively to hear it ring < 1235227831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where pressing tab always returns a result, repeating tab returns subsequent results < 1235227833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that blue window shadow/glow is a bit iffy < 1235227839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, pre-emptively to turn it off before it rings < 1235227841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with those wolverine-style stripes on the title bar < 1235227846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like those stripes < 1235227847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, not much distinction between highlighted and not windows? < 1235227864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those maximize/resize buttons look kind of crap < 1235227868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usability-wise < 1235227872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stripes disappear and the close/restore/maximise buttons are greyed out for an inactive window < 1235227875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small and it's not clear what they do at a glance < 1235227875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, not much difference < 1235227884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, wtf is up with that BLUE SHADOW? < 1235227889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I rarely have trouble working out which window's active anyway < 1235227929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i often wake up late, and see my alarm clock has been turned off, but can't really tell whether i turned it off before or after the ring because i have no memory of that. < 1235227937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what blue shadow? < 1235227973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: task manager settings < 1235227975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the side and top < 1235227983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shadow is glowing blue. < 1235227988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not right. < 1235228000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, it only seems to happen on overlapping windows < 1235228012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's the reason i started putting the alarm clock too far from the bed to reach < 1235228015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the idea's so you can tell one window apart from the next, but blue is probably the wrong colour < 1235228023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/20/wikileaks_donor_leak/ hahaha < 1235228034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, GTK apps seem uglier on KDE4 than QT apps on Gnome < 1235228040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i usually use two or three clocks, all randomly placed around the room < 1235228042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: install gtk-qt-theme-engine < 1235228043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1235228050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the default to the default Gnome style which is ugly < 1235228051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1235228052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes gtk apps use your kde theme, not perfectly but decently < 1235228053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed the bluw < 1235228061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only when on kde, or always? < 1235228067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure. < 1235228069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e was because the background color was used for shadows < 1235228069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like the opposite too, to make kde apps look like gnome when I'm on gnome < 1235228075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is hard < 1235228077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no generic way to do it < 1235228090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but install it, it's in apt-get < 1235228094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: link me an aardappel if you have it open < 1235228096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you configure it via the kde settings panel <-- non intuitive < 1235228108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://strlen.com/aardappel/index.html < 1235228113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://strlen.com/files/lang/aardappel/aarded.zip < 1235228117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicky the bat file < 1235228122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and start a new project < 1235228141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already installed < 1235228197 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so aardappel does mean potato < 1235228207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: great, just enable it then < 1235228209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the kde settings panel < 1235228213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure out where the settings panel is < 1235228218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it in 4.1, but it was broken < 1235228223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I'm having trouble finding it altogether < 1235228229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235228250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... do you think it's under settings, settings, system, or system settings? < 1235228250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am getting tempted to install kubuntu < 1235228256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone ought to fix that k menu garble < 1235228266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when's karmickckckckoala out again? < 1235228271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you want system settings < 1235228277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's out in october < 1235228281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1235228282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jaunty jackalope's out in april < 1235228289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the next release? < 1235228290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aight < 1235228292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235228295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :karmic's only just been named < 1235228298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the next-but-one < 1235228311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does KDE4.2 have less settingscruft? < 1235228324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I can't find it < 1235228327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235228329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in general < 1235228331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't under system settings < 1235228348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have to click the mouse in the lower left corner, click control shift meta alt and the mouse, move it diagonally to the other corner, release alt and meta, and chant "Ph.nglui mglw.nfah Cthulhu R.lyeh wgah.nagl fhtagn!" before you release the rest < 1235228363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should do it. < 1235228371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would actually try that, but I might get in trouble chanting here and I'm not sure how to pronounce it < 1235228381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I have super over here not meta, should I press ESC first instead? < 1235228392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do both just to be sure < 1235228417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just splutter over what you can't pronounce. < 1235228433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i _really_ don't recommend that with these things. < 1235228445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the desktop settings don't seem settingcrufty < 1235228448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's less there than Gnome < 1235228448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you test Jaunty already? < 1235228452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just what I got from right-clicking < 1235228459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you can set your repos to jaunty and download it < 1235228464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235228467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to risk that without a spare computer, though < 1235228468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather install jaunty plain < 1235228478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want something with 4.2 out of the box, tbh < 1235228482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't packaged it onto install CDs yet, I don't think < 1235228485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrading KDE and the like tends to leave cruft around < 1235228489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I got 4.2 from intrepid-proposed < 1235228507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally run -proposed so I can help out Ubuntu with bug reports and fixes before they hit the masses < 1235228564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't they build CDs automatically, anyway... < 1235228572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... Dolphin is reminding me surprisingly of Nautilus < 1235228577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they have to decide what goes on them, I think < 1235228587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't Dolphin supposed to be really crap < 1235228588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the standard packages ofc, but also which nonstandard ones to add < 1235228598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, KDE fans seem not to like it < 1235228607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dolphin.kde.org/images/home.png < 1235228613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, they ripped off Finder wholeslae. < 1235228616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wholesale < 1235228631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I was going to say the same thing but with Nautilus < 1235228639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can only assume that all three file managers work much the same way < 1235228649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nautilus is more like the mac os classic filemanager < 1235228656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that Nautilus stole the eject buttons next to unmountable things from Mac OS X < 1235228661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that screen is almost 100% identical to Finder < 1235228667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9except uglier) < 1235228668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*( < 1235228676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the toolbar at the top, it's the same as nautilus too < 1235228705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can even get Explorer to do that if you mess around with the settings a bit, but it isn't intelligent enough to figure out how best to do it itself and it looks even uglier < 1235228714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breadcrumb is nice though < 1235228744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nautilus has button-shaped breadcrumbs < 1235228761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the Gnome principle of making clickable areas as big as you can get away with to make clicking on them faster < 1235228763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably if I did install linux I'd use a tiling window manager or something < 1235228773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Gnome vs. KDE is more than just the window managers < 1235228795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coleslaw < 1235228823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1235228831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh jeez, windows weenies claimed dolphin was copied from Explorer... < 1235228833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ < 1235228834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now _that's_ plain retarded < 1235228835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aeroxp.org/board/index.php?showtopic=8352 < 1235228864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 3 minutes ago it's not my fault you TALK SO DAMN FAST < 1235228902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, x11 support on Leopard got worse < 1235228905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, visuals-wise < 1235228915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they forgot to update the quartz-x11 wm to use the new window decorations < 1235228928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it displays a Tiger-looking window... < 1235228941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shadows are all out of place. < 1235229028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm patent law is going to be (even more) _hell_ once they invent time machines < 1235229032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: from that thread: < 1235229034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Then again, who needs linux? The ReactOS project (don't laugh!) is doing pretty well." < 1235229037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/facepalm < 1235229050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ReactOS! < 1235229061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like reactos, but seriously < 1235229063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at what he's saying < 1235229069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We don't need other OSes, because we can clone Windows!" < 1235229079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a long way to go, but I'd like to see it eventually do well < 1235229079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... What, you mean the other OSs are different for a _reason_?" < 1235229085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HA HA YEAH RIGHT" < 1235229146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I didn't manage to find the system settings via the menus < 1235229150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I tried apropos < 1235229156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that failed too, now I'm messing with apt-cache < 1235229188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think kubuntu will recognize my wireless kb/mouse from the livecd? < 1235229195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly, I don't know < 1235229202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Ubuntu is pretty good at driver support nowadays < 1235229223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately not on macs < 1235229231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a pain to install linux on them < 1235229233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it wasn't installed < 1235229242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know why too < 1235229257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because I turned off the automatic changing of which KDE features are installed < 1235229260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resizes Macintosh HD partition while booted in to it < 1235229265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get rid of kubuntu's usplash in favour of ubuntu's < 1235229271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY < 1235229275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's impressive, although I can understand how it's possible < 1235229309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it fails because it's kind of fucked up -- i have a linux swap partition that i can't delete, but every operation fails because when it calls its internal libraries, they say they don't know none 'bout this here "Linux Swap" < 1235229323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you won't have to deal with having ubuntu and kubuntu simultaneously installed, so life will be easier for you < 1235229328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I remove linux swap, it just comes back again < 1235229340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll have to do some gparteding < 1235229366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1235229371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux still uses x.org < 1235229377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I planning to install it < 1235229382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way lies pain. < 1235229392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does X not detect your screen correctly? < 1235229403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardy was much better at detecting my screen than intrepid, by the way < 1235229419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what it does right now, all I know is that every time I try linux, X11 fucks up somehow and I have to edit god damn xorg.conf < 1235229426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that file with the passion of a thousand burning suns < 1235229433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol: "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is now disabled, to reduce issues experienced by users who accidentally trigger the key combo. Users who do want this function can enable it in their xorg.conf, or via the command dontzap --disable." < 1235229447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1235229451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which version of what? < 1235229458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jaunty latest alpha (4) < 1235229462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to turn that back on if it's affecting Ubuntu < 1235229530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, habits can form so easily < 1235229551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting utterly confused because when I open windows, they're ending up in a different order on the taskbar relative to where they do in Gnome < 1235229579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would be the best way to get a system with kde 4.2? < 1235229583 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1235229602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the advise from slashdot is to install opensuse, IIRC < 1235229611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they didn't mess up the packaging the same way Kubuntu did < 1235229618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no personal experience of this, though < 1235229618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opensuse?!?! < 1235229625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. < 1235229628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's advise from slashdot < 1235229631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably ignore it < 1235229634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*advice < 1235229640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, to hell with slashdot. < 1235229652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Who Poses the Greatest Threat To Your Privacy? < 1235229655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CowboyNeal < 1235229665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, they added back the CowboyNeal option < 1235229669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1235229673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was filling in my own answ´r < 1235229675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*answer < 1235229677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was gone for several months, and there was something of a rebellion brewing < 1235229682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not back < 1235229683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, if that option's still gone... < 1235229685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seeths < 1235229702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think they should run polls where CowboyNeal is a plausible option even in non-Slashdot concepts < 1235229711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as "what's your favourite standard Slashdot poll option" < 1235229820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to make linux swap into an hfs+ partition to remove it < 1235229858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed :-( < 1235229884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235229888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the referee's comments came back from the (3,2) Turing machine paper < 1235229896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them attacked me for numbering conjectures starting at 0 < 1235229928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235229936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NDA, I assume? because I'd love to hear that < 1235229948 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is true that this Alex Smith is a bit of a queer < 1235229950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I haven't signed an NDA < 1235229957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said that Conway could get away with it but I couldn't < 1235229965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1235229973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are they trying to reject it on that premise? < 1235229977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235229980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1235229983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the standard reject-with-feedback < 1235229983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be funny if they did < 1235229985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235229996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, wasn't it guaranteed to be in some journal? < 1235230000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wolfram said so anyway < 1235230003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the journal method of saying that they want to accept it, but are going to force you to make the changes rather than doing it yourself < 1235230006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. try with the square root as well. i guess you can decompose it. < 1235230016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's wolfram's journal, he has a vested interest in having it accepted < 1235230019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrong channel) < 1235230021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235230023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mith's Proof (to be published in Complex Systems):" < 1235230032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compelx system's is wolfram's then? < 1235230035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.complex-systems.com/ < 1235230038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considerng that automata < 1235230039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235230041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*automaton < 1235230067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like the way the referee complains about some of my subsidiary minor results being irrelevant < 1235230073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://blog.wolfram.com/images/swolfram/turing_rule.gif <-- this is 2,3? < 1235230075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, but if I can establish a stronger result I may as well < 1235230080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like one of the 256 automata < 1235230080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1235230090 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it < 1235230092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a compressed version of 2,3's output < 1235230097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but that graphic < 1235230105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu is so useless < 1235230109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, they only took the steps at which the turing tape head set a record for going left < 1235230113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just idiots and stupid qusetions and flood and no help < 1235230120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree, it's more useful when I'm on there helping people < 1235230122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rarely < 1235230126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi, get in there :P < 1235230141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's disappointing that the average competence level goes up when I ask for help and stick around later... < 1235230163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa! < 1235230165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calamari is in there. < 1235230171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just asked a question. < 1235230188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should join, but that would distract me < 1235230203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the easiest way to get an Ubuntu system with kde 4.2, from scratch? < 1235230207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was my question < 1235230245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what would happen if you installed Debian minimal web-install, pointed the repos at kubuntu intrepid proposed, and did a dist-upgrade < 1235230259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd work, but probably not as sleek as a desktop release < 1235230302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, wolfram is more on crack than I realised < 1235230302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No doubt it’ll be possible to find much better compilers, that make much better code. < 1235230302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that’ll be interesting. Perhaps one day there’ll even be practical molecular computers built from this very 2,3 Turing machine. < 1235230311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is no fucking way the 2,3 machine is practical, stop smoking < 1235230319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hurting my brain cells < 1235230327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in kubuntu is depended on by the kubuntu-desktop package, IIRC < 1235230332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I agree, I think < 1235230341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: isn't there a minimal ubuntu install? < 1235230342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(2^2^n) is not practical from anyone's point of view < 1235230350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's the ubuntu alternate install CD < 1235230353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does more or less anything < 1235230355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not minimal < 1235230360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CD itself isn't, no < 1235230363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you tweak it to install from another repo < 1235230366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect minimal install would be in the options somewhere < 1235230379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[We don’t have to carefully build things up with engineering. We can just go out and search in the computational universe, and find things like universal computers—that are simple enough that we can imagine making them out of molecules.]] < 1235230383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you freaking invented them < 1235230392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't find them in the goddamn bushes < 1235230397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think by far the easiest way is to install kubuntu intrepid, set the repo to -proposed and install updates < 1235230403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the way it's meant to work < 1235230411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alrighty < 1235230430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION clicks 64 bit download and feels smug < 1235230437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL CPUS lolz < 1235230460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh, slow download < 1235230465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets it from germany instead < 1235230469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany have fast interwebs < 1235230475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate mirror selections < 1235230477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST PICK ONE FOR ME < 1235230492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I normally use German mirrors, either that or the one at Oxford University < 1235230501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picking one closest to you is in fact the worst thing you can do... < 1235230503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Oxford mirror doesn't have all the packages I think < 1235230510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1235230512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235230522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're always slower than ones from countries just a few hops away from you < 1235230534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, bandwidth? < 1235230553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's because more people from the UK access sites in the UK, so the UK tubes are clogged :P < 1235230591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1235230593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :500 KB/sec < 1235230605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Italy's GARR/CILEA mirror service < 1235230621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, that bullshit could be correct depending on how the peering agreements are set up < 1235230630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably in this case it isn't < 1235230660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of thing that's totally wrong, but calculations you can make from it tend to be right in practice < 1235230669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leads you to the right results in the wrong way < 1235230722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, I did some research with #lisp the other day < 1235230726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbolics do still sell lisp machines < 1235230731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although obviously they don't _make_ new ones any more < 1235230741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to contact their sales address < 1235230744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(email :P) < 1235230752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shipping makes buying prohibitive unless you live close < 1235230759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt < 1235230768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neweest machine they have = $3500 < 1235230780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one down (runs on a modified old Mac) = $3200 < 1235230784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not that expensive < 1235230788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as above but less spec = $1200 < 1235230789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for something that specialised < 1235230794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really old = $675 < 1235230799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, they're good prices < 1235230815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to go and get it yourself really, otherwise shipping would be crazy < 1235230837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: something I found amusing -- their sales guy commented on the torrent for their OpenGenera development environment (ported to linux) < 1235230837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's your VHDLing going? < 1235230840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which had all the leaked source code < 1235230843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dkschmidt at 2007-08-15 02:24 CET: < 1235230848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations on downloading the finest software development environment ever created. If you want to find out more about Genera or would like to have a Symbolics Lisp Machine, check out the Symbolics website at www.symbolics.com or contact sales@symbolics.com. < 1235230849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a true salesman < 1235230857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, classic < 1235230864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably the best reaction < 1235230884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's not like symbolics are gonna be operating at a profit these days < 1235230899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing they sell interests more than about 100 people in the world < 1235230912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolics.com is the oldest registered domain, BTW < 1235230915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :registered in 1985 < 1235230922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has run continuously < 1235230934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, .com < 1235230938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might have been .orgs before that < 1235230943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly .nets for infrastructure < 1235230944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1235230970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3600-front.jpg < 1235230973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $3500 compy < 1235230981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they're very, very lou < 1235230981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1235230990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people put them in another room and hook up the terminal with a long cable, IIRC < 1235231015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235231018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes them so noisy? < 1235231020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1235231020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Symbolics3640.JPG < 1235231024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the $3500 one < 1235231028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, they're 80s hardware < 1235231034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't micropcs, they predate that < 1235231039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minicomputers < 1235231040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235231042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1235231052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think they were the first "single-user" machines after the mainframe boom < 1235231069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was just the power fit into the small space and stuff like that < 1235231174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's better < 1235231178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1235231183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason Konqueror didn't have a "back" button by default < 1235231187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235231187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reset it to defaults, then it did < 1235231194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so either configuration borkage or packaging borkage < 1235231208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, the reason lisp machines were single-user was because it was easier to implement < 1235231214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let them put in less safety checks < 1235231218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to avoid, e.g. people crashing it) < 1235231221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of DOS < 1235231299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I might write a program to generate tons of combinators < 1235231341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, I refound ninjacode yesterday and sgeo told me to revive it < 1235231342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I? < 1235231349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, KDE4.2 still seems to have the usual huge set of settings < 1235231355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes if you think you can make it work < 1235231355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear :P < 1235231363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it have gtk/qt ones < 1235231367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think I can < 1235231372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, I rather like that, for me it's what makes KDE KDE < 1235231404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninjacode linecounter: < 1235231405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0=~1+.' C~. < 1235231407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that? :D < 1235231411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1235231412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235231414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=~1+.' C~ < 1235231427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{'{C:.'}C.}'{C:.'}C. < 1235231429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine < 1235231434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how short can I get the linecounter in Perl? < 1235231438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(same principle as underload quine) < 1235231446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say scalar<> < 1235231446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 chars in Perl < 1235231453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many is it in ninjacode? < 1235231454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's not the same < 1235231465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this adds line counts < 1235231465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a\nb\nc -> 1 a\n2 b\n3 c < 1235231466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what's the ninjacode doing? < 1235231467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbering lines? < 1235231469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235231488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe '$_="$..$_"' < 1235231492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1235231497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pe '$_="$.. $_"' < 1235231498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=~1+.' C~ <- = is like perl -p, it runs the rest of the program with the next line on TOS, then prints TOS and goes a gain < 1235231512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ is swap, . is print, 'c is the num of character c, C prints a character out from its number < 1235231521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that it should be fairly clear how that works < 1235231532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so as an actual program: < 1235231535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!perl -p < 1235231540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$_="$.. $_" < 1235231549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235231552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninjacode wins hands-down, then < 1235231556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, = as a filter is kind of stupid < 1235231559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it should be equality < 1235231566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever, it's the principle of the thing < 1235231597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should add bitwise-XOR to Underlambda as a one-char operator not a library keyword? < 1235231609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, it could be used for equality tests the same way subtraction can be used for greater-than < 1235231618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235231621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(subtraction in Underlambda saturates at 0) < 1235231640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kubuntu downloaded! < 1235231645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 64 bit version works fine right? < 1235231658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235231685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: parsing ninjacode is very TC, by the way < 1235231699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can extend the parser in arbitrary ways, and it always picks the longest matching symbol name < 1235231700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically < 1235231708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing underlambda will be relatively trivial, but not as easy as underload < 1235231710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{+ is {+ if {+ is defined, otherwise it's {, + < 1235231718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an exception is made for alphanumerics < 1235231722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that foo is always foo < 1235231727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although foo+ can be foo+ or foo,+ < 1235231729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if {+ and +% are defined, but {+% isn't, what does {+% parse as? < 1235231731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, < 1235231739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can require libraries that do this kind of stuff to the parser at any time < 1235231742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including in e.g. conditionals < 1235231752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, you CAN compile it, but only if you disallow tricksy includes < 1235231759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but full ninjacode is Very Highly Unparsable < 1235231764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even parse a file at a time < 1235231770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be one token at a time < 1235231777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {+, % < 1235231805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because? < 1235231809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it sees {+, all going good, then %, oops {+% isn't defined, break here, {+, % < 1235231814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1235231824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about {+%} when {+ and +%} are defined? < 1235231824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it parses left-to-right, top-to-bottom because the syntax can change at any time < 1235231825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is consistent < 1235231827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{+, %, } < 1235231829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1235231836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: {+, %, }, yep < 1235231847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally you shouldn't use names that aren't defined :P < 1235231899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the only blank cd I can find is dusty as hell < 1235231903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have a default meaning? < 1235231920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: trigger an error < 1235231921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ugh, you mean Macs can't install operating systems without rebooting? < 1235231928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat :D < 1235231943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you're installing onto a different partition, in theory it ought to be possible < 1235231947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using virtualisation or something < 1235231955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that'd mess up hardware detection < 1235231962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just uses a dvd-writable < 1235231966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel kind of bad, but I have like 100 :P < 1235232012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, they're in unopenable packaging < 1235232111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1235232123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUUUUUUUUURN < 1235232139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting 700 MB on a 4.7GB disk feels kind of silly < 1235232141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1235232142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <- silly < 1235232151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll still have the rest left to put things on < 1235232170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, this is a rewritable disk, but err < 1235232180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that regular CDs/DVDs only burn once right? < 1235232183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wrong < 1235232188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've burnt a CD-R more than once < 1235232192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1235232192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can burn into the unused space < 1235232196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsupported-ly, I assume. < 1235232199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can't overwrite what you've already burntt < 1235232201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is supported < 1235232208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did this using Windows XP's out-of-the-box CD burner < 1235232243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when accessing a recordable CD, drives look past the end of the burnt area to see if anything's been burnt there < 1235232251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the multiple-burning thing works < 1235232263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose some space (a few KB I think) in overhead every time you burn, though < 1235232297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the burn/reboot cycle is fixed sometime < 1235232308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fix do you imagine? < 1235232311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, have special hardware that you copy an ISO to, and it mounts it, somehow < 1235232319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just download the ISO, click, reboot < 1235232322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's there as a drive < 1235232344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a very small virtualiser in firmware < 1235232352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1235232447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:17:35 important decision: what should we parse the code into? < 1235232447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:18:51 ais523: CLASSES < 1235232447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:19:01 LISTS < 1235232447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:19:06 MORE NORMALIZED STRINGS < 1235232468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILESYSTEMS! < 1235232486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FUNCTIONS! < 1235232523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPONENTALIZED VISUAL ACTIVEX COMPONENTS! < 1235232552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPUS FABRICATED ON-THE-FLY TO PROCESS THE DATA! < 1235232564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KITTENS! < 1235232571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone likes kittens, obviously < 1235232574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 PLAYERS! < 1235232580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHAIRS!!! < 1235232590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all built to one design < 1235232596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the errors in each one from the design represent the bit patterns < 1235232600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the in-memory representation < 1235232601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the parse tree < 1235232608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, reminds me of that esolang which is disguised as pip < 1235232609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pi < 1235232651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Righty ho, I will now reboot. < 1235232661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect to be conversing with you while installing Kubuntu. < 1235232667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I am not, I will flame Ubuntu when I return. < 1235232669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay for liveCDs < 1235232677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAME PREPARATION -> < 1235232755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAME ON < 1235232791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's a nice homomorphism from code to the empty program. < 1235232805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed there is < 1235232822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even preserves sequential composition < 1235232853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for some languages that is < 1235232873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also preserve quine-ness < 1235232936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235232940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that's my suggestion. < 1235232973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can be used to strip comments < 1235233008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention the compression. < 1235233041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also gives a 100% reduction in execution time < 1235233052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235233064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well asymptotically < 1235233112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it gives very good encryption < 1235233141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd really wonder why it isn't used more often < 1235233178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guaranteed unbreakable, no silly P=NP assumptions) < 1235233184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately, on some programs it introduces bugs where they don't do what they're meant to do < 1235233187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*/= < 1235233193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1235233209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's true, on the other hand it also removes most bugs < 1235233345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Disappointing. < 1235233347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It booted up fine, I selected try out, it booted into KDE. My mouse and keyboard are then sterile. (It only worked at bootup because of bios compatibility layer stuff) < 1235233360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1235233365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixable, I am sure. < 1235233371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not very out of the box. < 1235233386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use a wireless mouse, and it worked just fine in Ubuntu < 1235233389 0 :k2!n=kar8nga@e-137.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235233394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but threw it away because I was bored of replacing the batteries < 1235233417 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1235233419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mightymouse has fallen on the floor many times and its battery life is painfully short because of that < 1235233419 0 :k2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1235233421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, scratches < 1235233436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still better than other mice, though... < 1235233484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, they recommend rEFIt for booting < 1235233488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rEFIt slows down the boot and is slow < 1235233643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:27:18] i cant under stand ..................................................its tu tu that ,,,,,,, < 1235233649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular channels are painful. < 1235233725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you online from Mac OS X atm? < 1235233728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235233740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bets he gets an answer starting "First, click" < 1235233816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geekaholic.org/2008/04/good-bye-gentoo-hello-leopard.html <-- worst april fools ever < 1235233832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reasonable, well-thought out post on why switching to leopard could make sense. ha! ha! HHAHAHA! < 1235233946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: welp, looks like I need to use my usb mouse/kb < 1235234003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you should definitely use your mouse to kickban umar < 1235234008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235234024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how horrific rEFIt is? < 1235234031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it < 1235234044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems slightly pointless given that it just chains into GRUB for anything but boot-to-Mac < 1235234047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks pretty, though < 1235234050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, you get a horrible screen on startup with the kind of icons linux users make that they think look like os x because they have lens flares on them < 1235234054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, to boot into linux, < 1235234056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it BOOTS INTO LILO < 1235234057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1235234063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes rEFIt -> lilo -> linux < 1235234070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know about the chaining < 1235234076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful. awful awful awful. < 1235234076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example I saw was worse, though < 1235234078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lilo is awful. < 1235234090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1235234092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was refit -> mac os x, or alternatively you could choose windows or linux < 1235234104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whichever you chose, it went to a grub menu where you chose windows/linux < 1235234107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I could make bootcamp work... < 1235234117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uses the regular mac bootloader < 1235234127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lets you hold down option at the bootup screen to choose mac / "windows" < 1235234128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and defaults to mac < 1235234135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := same speed, no lilo, etc < 1235234145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235234146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it works < 1235234149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1235234151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1235234152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that smiley < 1235234154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I type it < 1235234242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how leopard comes with boot camp < 1235234252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many other OSes include fully-developed tools to run other OSes? < 1235234277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's Wubi, I'm not sure what you count that as though < 1235234283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that come with windows < 1235234284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235234300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'm going to boot into kubuntu livecd again to delete the swap partition, reboot into OS X, run boot camp, then install kubuntu < 1235234305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that the Windows and Linux filesystems each think the other's filesystem is inside their own < 1235234306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as I get my USB stuffs < 1235234316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: klein filesystem < 1235234324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235234329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wubi is stupid as a long-term system, anyway < 1235234340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although physically the linux system's inside the windows system, as the windows system ends up in /dev < 1235234345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and needs mounting < 1235234353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you say that about wubi? < 1235234364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're just living on top of windows < 1235234366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := overhead < 1235234369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := second-class citizen < 1235234387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not living on top < 1235234412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an entirely separate OS, it just installs itself into the location on the disk where windows would expect applications to be installed, and adds registry entries < 1235234420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you boot into linux with wubi, windows has nothing to do with anything < 1235234421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235234422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's NTFS < 1235234424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the filesystem being ntfs < 1235234506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, perl.org's still down < 1235234507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"klein filesystem"? < 1235234571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eine kleine filesystem < 1235234643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1235234644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are filesystems really female? < 1235234650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are neutral < 1235234659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was some kinda term < 1235234662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, horrible usb kb & mouse in operation < 1235234663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that phenomenon < 1235234667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but google knows it not. < 1235234680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klein bottle < 1235234683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235234736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay guyz < 1235234737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :livecd --> < 1235234958 0 :k2!n=kar8nga@j-53.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235234964 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1235234968 0 :k2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1235235292 0 :ehirdbuntu!i=5b6944a2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8f11942e9408f4b5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235235311 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great success! < 1235235312 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install time < 1235235391 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1235235392 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gparted time < 1235235393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdbuntu: is the wireless working too? < 1235235397 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I don't have gparted < 1235235401 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I use a wired connection < 1235235480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1235235490 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235235507 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, swap partition deleted, os x time so I can run boot camp -> < 1235235556 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, it wants a root partition to continue, argh! < 1235235592 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you type hash-kubuntu for me? there's no hash key here... < 1235235599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#kubuntu < 1235235602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't it on shift-3? < 1235235610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where it is on a US keyboard < 1235235621 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1235235623 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grah! < 1235235626 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants me to join ubuntu < 1235235628 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proxy users channel < 1235235629 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not kubuntu... < 1235235703 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know how to partition edit on kubuntu livecd without installing? :P < 1235235718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not off the top of my head < 1235235743 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the new startup menu is very nice < 1235235751 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a blend of the windows start menu and the os x spotlight < 1235235751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdbuntu: try ktparted rather than gparted? < 1235235758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*qtparted < 1235235764 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not installed either < 1235235765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gnome partition editor is unlikely to be on a KDE system < 1235235775 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installer has one < 1235235776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just parted? < 1235235791 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works, but has the hideous console interface :-D < 1235235812 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh I'll use it < 1235235883 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I save changes in parted? < 1235235921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1235235932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to look it up? < 1235235938 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I figured it out < 1235235941 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have google here too < 1235235953 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot --> < 1235236159 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1235236471 0 :Wamanuz2!i=51e9a5a3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-04061f158bc5df05 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235236509 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1235236753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much space do you think I should give ubuntu? < 1235236755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot camp gives 5gb by default, which would leave me ~3gb of space for documents < 1235236769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10gb for ubuntu would leave 64gb free on OS X < 1235236771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs 74gb now, ofc < 1235236796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends on how many documents you're storing on each side < 1235236805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5gb seems about right, you'll want your documents on the mac side, probably < 1235236810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likely not much on linux, I'm only going to be using it for coding and messing about < 1235236817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 10gb would leave more room for expansion though < 1235236822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still leave me a lot on os x side < 1235237028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go for 10gb < 1235237303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parittioneratering < 1235237308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partitioning takes far too long < 1235237316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised < 1235237326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to move a lot of thigns around < 1235237503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no moving < 1235237509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the space it's using was free < 1235237518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it says you need 32-bit windows < 1235237525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work with 64 bit linux < 1235237525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1235237529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarty-> < 1235237718 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-20-225.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1235237912 0 :ehirdbuntu!i=5b6944a2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2ee5bf71258c1b16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235237923 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install go < 1235237934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you going to talk about during the install? < 1235237958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought tic-tac-toe was the game of choice these days < 1235237985 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the install. < 1235237990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1235238021 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235238028 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what swap space is recommended? I have 2.5gb ram < 1235238033 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half yoru ram, right? < 1235238056 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235238059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half your ram is usual < 1235238086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it doesn't really matter if you set it to 0 or your entire drive, until the point where you run out of memory altogether < 1235238123 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ext3 is the recommended fs still, right? < 1235238131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235238139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it'll probably be ext4 in a year, once that's stable < 1235238224 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION resizes 10gb hd to be 10gb-(2.5/2)gb < 1235238231 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun < 1235238235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recently learned to play infinite board tic tac toe in my head, but somehow i think it's less impressive on irc < 1235238247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: have you ever played 4 dimensional tic tac toe? < 1235238254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works pretty well on a 4x4x4x4 board < 1235238269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i've played infinite dimensional tic tac toe. < 1235238276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered about that < 1235238283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but limiting the size of the board makes it work better < 1235238289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a bot for that here once < 1235238293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1235238298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for infinite board, how many in a row do you play? 5, like the japanese do? < 1235238306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely recalls that. < 1235238310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1235238311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they play on a 19x19 board but it may as well be infinite, players rarely reach the edges < 1235238317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the japanese and the finnish < 1235238324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you play the 3-3 / 4-4 barring rules? < 1235238326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one plays the 3x3 tic tac toe, it's stupid < 1235238332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235238335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what those are < 1235238345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a technique to remove the first player advantage < 1235238351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nh < 1235238366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a four is any position where you could add one counter and get five in a row < 1235238389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"remove it", has that been proven? < 1235238393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a three is any position where you can make a four which has two locations to add the final counter by adding one counter < 1235238397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that all games are draws with it < 1235238401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it doesn't manage it perfectly, but it reduces it somewhat < 1235238405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235238425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's a solved game, so could've been proven < 1235238425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rules say that the first player (but not the second player) can't play a move that simultaneously creates two threes, and can't play a move that simultaneously creates two fours < 1235238441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently the first player still has an advantage even after that < 1235238456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some groups also play that the first player can't get 6 or more in a row < 1235238465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1235238480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suck at the game, just like i suck in most games < 1235238488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like integration, grrrr) < 1235238675 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick hostname! < 1235238688 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking killer butterfly, or criminal lightbulb, or kitten. < 1235238692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fthagn! < 1235238695 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kitten with attached laser < 1235238698 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha yes < 1235238707 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankees < 1235238720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, fhtagn < 1235238721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why fthagn? < 1235238729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fhtagn? < 1235238732 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cthulhu fhtagn, duh < 1235238737 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux is dark magic < 1235238756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cthulhu sneezes" < 1235238797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is disturbing, the number of google hits is about the same for those < 1235238812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1235238827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, people can't spell "fhtagn"? well yeah that is pretty disturbing < 1235238830 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1235238841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a bad feeling the shop closes at 20 and not at 21... < 1235238853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it has to, since it's nearly 20 already < 1235238859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ext3 is the recommended fs still, right? <-- in case you are interested I usually use ext3 for / and /boot, and xfs for the rest (/home /var /usr, and /opt is symlinked to /usr/opt) < 1235238872 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm doing one partition. < 1235238873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how shops work, they close when you decide to go to them. < 1235238875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1235238883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdbuntu, I usually use LVM too :) < 1235238884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, even if you're correct, and you probably are, ehirdbuntu is going to disagree with you on principle < 1235238939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I find that xfs has what I want from ext4 but is a lot more well tested and stable. Stuff like defrag and such. Not that xfs gets as fragmented as ext3... < 1235238955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not that ext3 gets fragmented enough to matter anyway < 1235238964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and last I looked online defrag was still not completed for ext4 < 1235238975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how ais523 has started commenting like that just after ehird actually started deserving it much less. maybe it's just so ais523 wouldn't be right, dunno, still funny. < 1235238975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's well known that tar is a pretty effective defragmenter < 1235238978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends, I had some partitions manage that fine, while other got super-fragmented < 1235238980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarball your filesystem, untar it again < 1235239000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean he did not disagree with AnMaster on principle there for instance < 1235239029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is no single best FS for everyone IMO. People use computers in different ways < 1235239032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have different needs < 1235239036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235239040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: stop talking bullshit! < 1235239043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I imagine most of them are better than bffs < 1235239083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however I can say ext3 gets fragmented for /usr/portage on gentoo. Lots of small files (so I use a smaller than usual block size for it on xfs to not waste space). < 1235239085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i cannot, i like noticing patterns in how people respond to patterns in other people. < 1235239088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is updated with rsync < 1235239123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks something < 1235239123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wp uses fhtagn < 1235239133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find /usr/portage -type f | wc -l < 1235239133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111952 < 1235239142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :du -sh /usr/portage < 1235239142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :253M /usr/portage < 1235239163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is on xfs since with ext3 it got very slow and fragmented < 1235239206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have a special partition for it, due to the very different usage pattern for it compared to the rest of /usr < 1235239221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is portage directly under /usr by the way? < 1235239239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is the default location /usr/ports on freebsd? < 1235239244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it's ports tree < 1235239252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect it to be inside /usr/share somewhere, or maybe even /var < 1235239254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both fill the same purpose basically < 1235239264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although /usr makes more sense I suppose as you're editing /usr anyway < 1235239293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could change the location in /etc/make.conf < 1235239295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted < 1235239298 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those who know me will know i hate all filesystems. < 1235239307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even git? < 1235239309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you suggest instead? < 1235239317 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: git is nice ... for a filesystem. < 1235239318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err is git a file system? < 1235239322 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235239326 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a user-space one, albeit < 1235239329 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rides on top of another < 1235239333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the features a filesystem needs < 1235239337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how is it not a filesystem? < 1235239356 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as for what I suggest instead -- I'll elaborate when I have my regular kb back < 1235239357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, one thing IMO: It needs to run on another file system for the actual data storage < 1235239364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't mkfs.git < 1235239374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess that depends on how you define fs < 1235239377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unionfs and such < 1235239389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah it could be considered a fs < 1235239404 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the working tree isn't git < 1235239406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kb? knowledge base? kickban? < 1235239406 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :git is in .git/ < 1235239422 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of storing its metadata in sectors, it stores them in host files < 1235239424 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: keyboard. < 1235239427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235239428 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a usb one for kubuntu < 1235239431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1235239533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm still changing from using n files to 1 raw linear block device is not that trivial... Since suddenly you need to handle "next block is already used for something else". Which is handled by the filesystem otherwise. In fact it is one of the important tasks for a "traditional" file system. < 1235239546 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look in a .git directory sometime < 1235239548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it is a filesystem more like unionfs is one < 1235239556 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see the likeness to an fs, almost certainly < 1235239560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did once, but yeah it was ages ago < 1235239571 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, the general structure is fs-like < 1235239574 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it has vcs commands on top < 1235239578 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you look at the primitive docs < 1235239581 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like super-fsck < 1235239584 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw fs manipulation < 1235239585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls ~/src/pahole/.git/ < 1235239585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FETCH_HEAD HEAD ORIG_HEAD branches config description hooks index info logs objects refs < 1235239586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1235239593 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke around the files < 1235239599 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. objects, refs < 1235239602 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the most fs like parts < 1235239604 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1235239660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls objects/ < 1235239660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00 05 10 18 20 2a 32 37 3f 44 4d 56 60 [... more of the same cut here, lots more, but don't want to spam too much on irc ...] info pack < 1235239675 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try cat as well as ls :P < 1235239683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRING ME HIS HEAD < 1235239696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from file (and I suspect it is wrong): < 1235239697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/ad/635812a04ef5b45dddc8386e0b9dbe7bc56435: VAX COFF executable - version 8256 < 1235239697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/ad/b9d370d66c4ea6655c61e17a187b1eaa804dea: VAX COFF executable not stripped < 1235239697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/b1/145b6715205d42d6a1f4ce9ddd7a061018be0e: VAX COFF executable - version 21221 < 1235239700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1235239704 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235239708 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vax cough < 1235239716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pahole is a kernel.org project, lots of source, no executables < 1235239724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess compressed in some way < 1235239744 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open an editor on them :P < 1235239750 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that version looks like VMS version number to me < 1235239756 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21221... that's one heavily modified file < 1235239757 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1235239777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, file thinks everything in objects/[:xdigit:]/* is various variants of VAX COFF executable < 1235239797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdbuntu: well with all that coughing there have probably been a constant stream of virus on it < 1235239807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/2d/8c3aff822c2d0c924600e0ebe82a18df28013e: VAX COFF executable not stripped - version 24267 < 1235239810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*es < 1235239811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/24/d209abe394af6b364e07e78a8712efb80fc17c: VAX COFF executable < 1235239813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1235239829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the stuff in objects/pack/: < 1235239835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/pack/pack-33e576f64aedf6aed156f3ccdabdbc445b9317b5.idx: data < 1235239835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/pack/pack-33e576f64aedf6aed156f3ccdabdbc445b9317b5.pack: Quake I or II world or extension < 1235239835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/pack/pack-873f1ade3da35d4dfb915611ffd24243e73f0025.idx: data < 1235239835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects/pack/pack-873f1ade3da35d4dfb915611ffd24243e73f0025.pack: Quake I or II world or extension < 1235239836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235239850 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel devs hide their quake modz in git files, yep < 1235239857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, either git is worse than I thought or... < 1235239860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1235239875 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: reflections on trusting trust < 1235239878 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did that with the git sources < 1235239882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you say I should look at refs too? < 1235239883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1235239883 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add a quake-mod-stashing system < 1235239886 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235239896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls refs/ < 1235239896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heads remotes tags < 1235239897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1235239917 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235239932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdbuntu, btw I haven't done anything but some git pull on this repo, no commits or such < 1235239943 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as if you comitted a lot < 1235239946 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since your commits = everyone else's < 1235239963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well refs is all ASCII < 1235239990 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://steike.com/code/useless/zip-file-quine/ :) < 1235239998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refs/tags/v1.0 refs/tags/v1.1 refs/tags/v1.2 refs/tags/v1.3 refs/tags/v1.4 refs/tags/v1.5 refs/tags/v1.6 refs/remotes/origin/HEAD refs/remotes/origin/master refs/heads/master < 1235240005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1235240017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to contain revision IDS < 1235240018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDs* < 1235240027 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restart into ewwbuntu hopefully -> < 1235240028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha256 style I think? < 1235240199 0 :ehirdbuntu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1235240722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Possibly!" < 1235241246 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235241441 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235241812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1235241814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does konversation look kde3-style to you too/ < 1235241816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1235241900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping < 1235242018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1235242149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235243122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1235243178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1235244222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:23] !hi | rapha < 1235244223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:23] rapha: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu! < 1235244225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{welcome}} < 1235244426 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From that screenshot, it definitely looks KDE3-style :P < 1235244446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235244457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo apple keyboard works < 1235244459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now: mouse < 1235244589 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would anybody voluntarily use an Apple keyboard ... I've never used an Apple keyboard that wasn't a miserable pile of crap. < 1235244610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow ... poor you. The 2006 and 2007 apple keyboards are absolutely perfect. < 1235244620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, every one before that was god-awful... < 1235244629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these are the best keyboards I've ever used (and I've used a model M.) < 1235244662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whee, mouse works too. < 1235244706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't exactly know what keyboards Apple was cranking out each year :P < 1235244712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235244743 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picture? URL? Something? < 1235244860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picture: < 1235244879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/images/user/products/Apple-keyboard.jpg < 1235244881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the best picture < 1235244882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh well < 1235244887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the keys are shallower than they look there...) < 1235244935 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that looks very much like a keyboard :P < 1235244942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verily. < 1235244966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255 package upgrade GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1235245073 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your system stores the number of updates in an unsigned char? :P < 1235245081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1235245095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsigned car < 1235245120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drive a signed car. < 1235245121 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I signed it. < 1235245125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sweet < 1235245129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a car signed by gregor < 1235245137 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wouldn't? < 1235245149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom. < 1235245155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HAHAHAHA) < 1235245155 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1235245183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a really tiny penis < 1235245194 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... with an inverted head? < 1235245195 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ow < 1235245205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235245504 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235245596 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://entrian.com/goto/ < 1235245607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1235245710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot time < 1235245812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No COBOL style ALTER? Or am I hallucinating tha there's an ALTER? < 1235245833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there's a COBOL 2002 standard? < 1235246121 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ there must be a cdr joke somewhere < 1235246128 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdr? < 1235246131 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1235246513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... wow ... poor you. The 2006 and 2007 apple keyboards are absolutely perfect. <-- what happened during 2008? < 1235246570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and is http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/images/user/products/Apple-keyboard.jpg a slimmed model or a more full size usable one? < 1235246602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that pic is is hard to see < 1235246607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is from right above < 1235246611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fact : French mac keyboards have , instead of . on the number pad < 1235246616 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is retarded < 1235246631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, Fact: So does all Swedish keyboards I ever seen < 1235246634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including this one < 1235246636 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird want to take over A Nomic < 1235246647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we use , instead of . for decimal point < 1235246698 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want . on my numpad :< < 1235246716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's full size < 1235246718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size of a regular kb < 1235246740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ridges between keys are nice, I almost never mistype < 1235246752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and how far does keys go when you press them? on most laptops they don't got down as much as on classical PC keyboards < 1235246765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than laptops < 1235246771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they go down quite a bit, more than regular pc keyboards < 1235246779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're specially weighted < 1235246791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's quite a quiet keyboard, unlike the model M, still tactile though < 1235246827 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a flat-keyed Das Keyboard Ultimate with quiet buttons < 1235246834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and a pony < 1235246850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds nice < 1235246861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they as nice as those clicking keyboards? < 1235246878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: = model Ms, yes, I'd say easier to type with too < 1235246881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I hate the clicking sound the tactile experience was good < 1235246884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to quite hit the keys with model m-s < 1235246905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unfortunately, you can't buy those any more, there's a new model out < 1235246912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks nicer but has less tall keys < 1235246928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually, I have a spare one here iirc :-P < 1235246933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably get one from ebay though < 1235246936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1235246946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a lot of keyboards has tend to go down when you just rest your hand and don't type, s o yes the extra force for model m-s is nice < 1235246954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, it is subjective of course < 1235246967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can lie my hand on this kb and it doesn't press < 1235246976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be: hard, easy, hard < 1235246991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., hard to initially press, easy to go down, then hard for the last bit < 1235247002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:09] i.e., hard to initially press, easy to go down, then hard for the last bit < 1235247006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context is for the weak < 1235247038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235247115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, reboot into kde4.2 hopefully -> < 1235247672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Kubuntu, < 1235247678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please reconnect via wireless when you boot. Honestly. < 1235247681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard, goddammit! < 1235247726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that... Hey, this ain't bad. < 1235247731 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, until ehird joins ##Nomic, I'm going to talk about nomic in here < 1235247735 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's in all your interests to get em to join < 1235247742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 will complain at you. < 1235247776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs firefox because konqueror is awful. < 1235247793 0 :k2!n=kar8nga@e-120.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235247804 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1235247806 0 :k2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1235247815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I see no nomic talk. < 1235248789 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty only things from Firefox I miss with Konqueror are proper sessions support, NoScript and that one site nickname extension... < 1235248825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of dislike the "doesn't support shit" part. < 1235248961 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jit < 1235248965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit, linux font rendering is really terrible. < 1235248971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like really really awful < 1235248976 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so < 1235248987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to OS X? I want to rip my eyes out. < 1235248988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple times. < 1235249055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, got the wireless working yet? < 1235249081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've always worked, it just forgets it at startup because it's stupid. < 1235249084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1235249090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also about font rendering: depends < 1235249090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I say always. < 1235249094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in binary distros: yes < 1235249097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean after I spent ages getting it working. < 1235249097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1235249101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yer joking right < 1235249115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you compile freetype from source you can enable an algorithm that apple patented < 1235249118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235249121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary distros disable it < 1235249126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't like legal issues < 1235249128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: screenshot of the result? < 1235249140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there was some website comparing < 1235249142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1235249226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, first: some background about the issue, it is related to hinter < 1235249228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.freetype.org/patents.html < 1235249231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION worries about machine; Linux doesn't seem to put the machine at rest like os x < 1235249233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fan's always going < 1235249235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto-hinter sucks ball < 1235249236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balls* < 1235249239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree about that < 1235249244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it would be better if it only sucked one ball < 1235249283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 5. at least < 1235249308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop whirring machine :( < 1235249339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm I'm not sure about such stuff. But probably it is just a case of finding the right setting < 1235249344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people keep saying turn off hinting in the google < 1235249345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i rage at them < 1235249346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I *don't* have a laptop... < 1235249355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you turn off hinting you can see the subpixel < 1235249356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1235249358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, nor I < 1235249367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1235249371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't have a mac < 1235249378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this one has "one speed always fan" < 1235249389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dynamic cpu speed activated though < 1235249389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally my fan is off < 1235249391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely < 1235249397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lucky you < 1235249403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the GPU fan is loud < 1235249404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is distracting :-P < 1235249406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this computer < 1235249426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, since I don't have a computer that supports fan control I don't know exactly < 1235249426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1235249439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc lm_sensors bundles something called fancontrol < 1235249442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is used for *some* fans < 1235249450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly acpi is used for other fans < 1235249452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1235249468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really the right person to ask about that sort of stuff < 1235249472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1235249474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Read-only file system' < 1235249477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate it when that happens < 1235249531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err how the heck did you manage that? < 1235249558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno; it happens all the time for me with linux < 1235249568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think linux just hates me < 1235249570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hate hate hate hate hate < 1235249570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what did you do? < 1235249577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did / remount readonly? < 1235249579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1235249580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1235249586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should flaming os x, it might like me more then < 1235249670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes to name new nasa node "Mister Splashy Pants" < 1235249678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235249688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235249702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to share their mind with mine? < 1235249715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like, so that we'd both control both bodies < 1235249718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235249725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google image search yielded this: http://o0l0o.org/images/Bildschirmfoto_fsl_new.png not sure if that is enabled or disabled < 1235249743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i'd want to do that indefinitely though. < 1235249772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also this http://puntium.smugmug.com/photos/183993189_f7waP-S.jpg < 1235249775 0 :shapr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235249808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enabled or disabled? < 1235249819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks nice, though < 1235249822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the latter I think is both side by side < 1235249823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logout login -> < 1235249915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, back yet? < 1235249935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no subpixel rendering < 1235249937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ slight hinting < 1235249941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to do the trick to a degree < 1235249946 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants the IRTC back < 1235249949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer subpixel ofc, but oh well < 1235249953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, you could build your own < 1235249955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1235249958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting gentoo ebuild < 1235249967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ! use bindist; then < 1235249967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # Bytecodes and subpixel hinting supports are patented < 1235249967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # in United States; for safety, disable them while building < 1235249967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # binaries, so that no risky code is distributed. < 1235249967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # See http://freetype.org/patents.html < 1235249972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : enable_option FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING < 1235249972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : enable_option TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER < 1235249972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : disable_option TT_CONFIG_OPTION_UNPATENTED_HINTING < 1235249977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fi < 1235250009 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD < 1235250010 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLESS < 1235250011 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMERICA < 1235250033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well both me and ehird are in Europe, so we should be able to use it without issues < 1235250116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and openoffice includes it's own copy of freetype iirc, so there it is harder to get good looking font < 1235250323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there? < 1235250369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now the word spacing that firefox uses isn't the best, but other than that this looks good on my monitor. Settings are tuned to look good on this TFT, which may not look very good on your. But at least I hope it is useful http://omploader.org/vMWE0OQ < 1235250384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was a screenshot of http://www.freetype.org/patents.html < 1235250613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also these two images: http://avi.alkalay.net/articlefiles/freetype4-nbci.png http://avi.alkalay.net/articlefiles/freetype4-bci.png < 1235250624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235250637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one seems without hinting at all in fact. well not sure < 1235250662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it also depends on font. I recommend you convert your OS X fonts and copy them over < 1235250663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1235250676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1235251073 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1235251434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1235251453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this seems relevant: http://www.beranger.org/index.php?page=3k&fullarticle=2150 < 1235251463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the other links I pasted before you returned < 1235251473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your bouncer handles that iirc? < 1235251483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i WAS Online < 1235251485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask < 1235251486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1235251488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capslock < 1235251491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235251498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: wb < 1235251507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiii ehird we missed you < 1235251513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235251514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[20:59] ehird, well, you could build your own < 1235251523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to minesweeped < 1235251525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*r < 1235251528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will literally build my own < 1235251530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when my OS is done < 1235251531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235251537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is simply a stupid "apple has patents in US" issue < 1235251538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1235251552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235251554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents often cause problems for great linux stuff < 1235251556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate software patents < 1235251575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that recent "apply kernel security patches without reboot" : scrapped due to MS patents covering it < 1235251576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1235251580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can understand why a company would take them out in the current corporateosphere, but they shouldn't even exist < 1235251603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMWE0OQ <-- the text here looks very thin < 1235251608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as if some bit sare missing < 1235251634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm, well I found that readable on my screen, but it is pretty low DPI < 1235251643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have like 120dpi or something ridiculous here < 1235251645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that bci.png... < 1235251649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text isn't even antialiased... < 1235251657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc I have around 100 DPI < 1235251671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yeah, no clue about that, the original page didn't exist < 1235251671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than most people < 1235251673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I tried < 1235251685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually 98 DPI I think < 1235251707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I *do* use the byte code interpreter < 1235251720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because without it, yeah awful < 1235251776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macprolinux.blogspot.com/2008/04/fan-control-python-script-for-8-core.html hmm < 1235251783 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1235251788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also there is a lack of free fonts yes, at least you can get some "not as bad as bitmapped helvetica" by getting ms corefonts (yes this means MS fonts, but trust me, bitmapped helvetica or courier is worse) < 1235251803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably just nick Helvetica from os x or something < 1235251816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since non-os x helveticas are worse, as a rule < 1235251819 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1235251825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to convert .dfont -> .ttf < 1235251830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some app for it < 1235251833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot name < 1235251845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I used it to give some fonts to you < 1235251846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235251847 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: s/helveticas/things in general/ < 1235251866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I agree, but keep the flamebait down, I'm installing linux to see how it's progressed < 1235251872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, normally I tend to use bitstream vera sans mono since I think that variable width sucks for programming < 1235251880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Monaco for programming < 1235251882 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive heard good things about the new ubuntus < 1235251883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for writing documents: LaTeX < 1235251885 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh monaco <3 < 1235251896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Compter Modern FTW! < 1235251900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer* < 1235251905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer modern is rather unmonospaced. < 1235251910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I'm using kubuntu with the new kde 4.2 < 1235251914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I said for writing documents < 1235251921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty, at least < 1235251925 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cory doctorow's raved about ubuntu. < 1235251936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would, he's a free culture weenie < 1235251944 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive got no idea what makes kubuntu k-ified < 1235251948 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no not even just that its free < 1235251949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde. < 1235251955 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he says it works nicely too < 1235251958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kubuntu = ubuntu - gnome + kde < 1235251966 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on, does ubuntu normally use gnome? < 1235251967 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1235251970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235251980 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheres elubuntu? < 1235251981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and there is a outline version, type1 iirc: Latin Modern < 1235251984 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or blubuntu < 1235252000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm btw is kubuntu KDE 4? < 1235252002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: what < 1235252010 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. enubuntu, i meant < 1235252015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, kde 4.1, but I added the -proposed repository to upgrade to kde 4.2 < 1235252021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2 is much nicer than 4.1 < 1235252027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, I'm still on KDE 3.5.x < 1235252030 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enubuntu = ubuntu - gnome + enlightenment < 1235252031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blows 4.0 out of the water, although I only have ais523's anecdotes about 4.0 to go on < 1235252038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say 4.2 is a definite improvemen < 1235252038 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blubuntu = ubuntu - gnome + blackbox < 1235252039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1235252045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've nicked quite a lot from os x :P < 1235252059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: they don't exist because blackbox and enlightenment are both crap < 1235252064 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235252064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well gentoo devs say they will support KDE 3.x "for quite a while at least, considering how bad KDE 4 is still" < 1235252066 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like them < 1235252079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kde 4.2 just came out like last month. < 1235252081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, quote from memory, comment about KDE 4.2-alpha < 1235252081 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like their extreme minimalism < 1235252082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late last month < 1235252092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: LOL, no, if you want extreme minimalism try dwm < 1235252093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1235252096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre? beta? < 1235252097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ratpoison < 1235252099 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwm? < 1235252101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, final < 1235252104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: google it, foo < 1235252109 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing so nigra < 1235252110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean that quote < 1235252115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, well gentoo devs say they will support KDE 3.x "for quite a while at least, considering how bad KDE 4 is still" < 1235252128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235252130 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i read about this a bit back < 1235252131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about 4.2-(pre|beta|alpha|whatever) < 1235252134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I dunno < 1235252138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, by a gentoo dev < 1235252143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo devs tend to be a bit ridiculous in my experience < 1235252148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e.: biased and irritating) < 1235252151 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt like dwm < 1235252158 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion ftw < 1235252176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion is lol, the author is a douchebag < 1235252187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm switching to windows and releasing ion as closed source in future!" "Err, disregard that" < 1235252188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I really haven't had much to do with them, yeah I know there has been some internal fights stuff, but how do you know there haven't been any internal fights at apple? < 1235252200 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no ehird < 1235252200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you care about that, as long as the product works < 1235252200 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1235252202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't because I don't have contact with more than a few apple devs :P < 1235252203 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1235252209 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"err disregard that i suck cocks lol" < 1235252213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you used a gentoo dev as an authoritative opinion < 1235252214 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235252219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no, the author of ion would never admit to sucking cocks. < 1235252222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's too self-centered. :P < 1235252237 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can there even be such thing as an authoritative opinion? :) < 1235252243 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah i dislike dwm < 1235252246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evenant: duh, the government! < 1235252252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I just told you what one of the kde maintainers said, he also said that gentoo would probably aim for KDE 4.3 heh < 1235252266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde package maintainers* < 1235252266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1235252273 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you dislike bbwm and enlightenment, ehird? < 1235252276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if it was unclear) < 1235252287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enlightenment is just bloated and boring, + pointless eye candy < 1235252294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I have considered trying awesome wm if KDE 4.x doesn't improve < 1235252298 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? how do you figure? < 1235252301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe xfce < 1235252302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used it. < 1235252309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackbox is 99% "omg so 1337" and 1% actual usability. < 1235252318 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but what do you find bloated and pointless eye candy? < 1235252318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IF THE TEXT IS SMALLER IT'S MORE MINIMALIST" < 1235252323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: have you _used_ e17? < 1235252325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, xfce? (did I miss you passing over that?) < 1235252326 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hells yeah < 1235252331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: xfce is basically gnome done right < 1235252331 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the point of linux? :P < 1235252333 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i havent used e in a while < 1235252334 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, tuomov is a dick < 1235252337 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ion is awesome < 1235252338 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235252340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, you mean with features? < 1235252346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235252383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1235252393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for example I was trying to print from a Gnome program recently, except there seemed to be no where to set "A4" instead of "letter" < 1235252409 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm. you're right. im now reminded of the excessive silliness that people design for E themes < 1235252423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one good thing: You could be sure it wasn't there, it wasn't like you could have missed it, too few options around for that... < 1235252429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what context is this? < 1235252440 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever i used enlightenment i used the very simple themes < 1235252443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in kde if you couldn't find it you wouldn't know if it was hidden somewhere between all the other options < 1235252451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gnome application printing dialog < 1235252457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is shared between gnome apps < 1235252464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you replying to? < 1235252469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I said? what? < 1235252471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: xfce is basically gnome done right < 1235252472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, oh, you mean with features? < 1235252475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ? < 1235252477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense to me < 1235252478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, for example I was trying to print from a Gnome program recently, except there seemed to be no where to set "A4" instead of "letter" < 1235252485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:41] AnMaster: xfce is basically gnome done right < 1235252486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:41] ehird, oh, you mean with features? < 1235252488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you rephrase your line there? < 1235252500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think AnMaster was being perfectly clear < 1235252506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically I'm saying my main problem with gnome is that they seem to remove options all the time < 1235252510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235252515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are trying to make a fool proof GUI < 1235252519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all for removing features, but gnome is just run by idiots < 1235252523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prediction: < 1235252528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever want to use gnome, use xfce instead < 1235252530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you needed to not know know what you're talking about to get it. < 1235252532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnome in 2020 will have two buttons < 1235252535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly the same except it works. < 1235252537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235252541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1235252546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both will do the same < 1235252550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Switch to xfce" "Turn off computer" < 1235252558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do the same, just one switches to xfce first < 1235252562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235252568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other would switch to xfce after turning off your computer, but it can't do anything while it's off < 1235252573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elegant < 1235252586 0 :BeholMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235252610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second prediction: In 2020 KDE will require 16 GB RAM. Firefox will require n + 25 GB RAM (where n is how much ram you have installed) < 1235252623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ sudo modprobe applesmc < 1235252624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ < 1235252628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a start. < 1235252636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does applesmc do? < 1235252645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple system management controller < 1235252649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the hell comes next < 1235252654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. is that what handles the fan stuff? < 1235252657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1235252679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at linux. It's interpreting mousewheel-left as right and vise versa. (This is annoying because the mighty mouse is one 3d ball, so when I scroll down I scroll right ever so slightly) < 1235252688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235252691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right I see < 1235252697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is probably in xorg.conf < 1235252699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that helps < 1235252711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section "InputDevice" < 1235252712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Identifier "MightyMouse" < 1235252714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Driver "evdev" < 1235252715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Option "CorePointer" < 1235252717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Option "Name" "Elliott Hird’s Mouse" < 1235252718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Option "HWHEELRelativeAxisButtons" "7 6" < 1235252720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Option "Buttons" "8" < 1235252720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep that is where < 1235252721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EndSection < 1235252721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235252723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I just have to swap them < 1235252724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to 6 7 < 1235252734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, worth a try, but I'm not sure < 1235252759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may swap up/down with left/right < 1235252763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possibly* < 1235252767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1235252796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you have kernel sources: drivers/hwmon/applesmc.c < 1235252801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1235252802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's forehead aches < 1235252819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I'm feeling helpful today < 1235252819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235252830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a quick look at that file it handles fan and motion sensor < 1235252832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I bashed it hard yesterday by running into some metal head-on. Don't ask how. There's a bump there now.) < 1235252832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235252839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's good :P < 1235252841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also light sensor? < 1235252843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now how do I make it work I wonder... < 1235252849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for controlling monitor brightness, I assume < 1235252868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, somewhere in /proc I would suspect, or /sys < 1235252875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me read a bit further in the file < 1235252888 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235252909 0 :BeholMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1235252919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1235252937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :device? < 1235252945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235252962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems to have stuff related to /dev < 1235252964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure yet < 1235252970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only about halfway through the file < 1235252975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you change keyboard layout in kde < 1235252977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type a bar < 1235252996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in KDE 3 it is in the kcontrol thing < 1235253024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait sysfs < 1235253031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(talking about fan) < 1235253056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think this would work out of the box < 1235253072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I don't, I'm a realist < 1235253085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in OS X, and I'm pretty sure it works in windows < 1235253086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple works out of box because they can ensure it does in advance < 1235253086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the box < 1235253102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, apple gain a lot by relying on hardware < 1235253118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, applesmc is controlled through sysfs < 1235253124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysfs = /sys, right? < 1235253141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. However I'm not sure exactly which file because it depends on what PCI ID it shows up as I think < 1235253147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I understood the source correctly < 1235253152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acpi pci platform scsi spi usb < 1235253154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieee1394 pci_express pnp serio ssb < 1235253155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, pci then < 1235253157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel < 1235253173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I might be wrong, I think pci and pci_express is handled similiary at this level < 1235253176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so worth searching < 1235253193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing related that I can see < 1235253213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find /sys -name '*applesmc*' < 1235253214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1235253224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not very used to kernel macors < 1235253228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros* < 1235253230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/devices/platform/applesmc.768 < 1235253232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/bus/platform/devices/applesmc.768 < 1235253233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/bus/platform/drivers/applesmc < 1235253235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/bus/platform/drivers/applesmc/applesmc.768 < 1235253235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235253236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/module/applesmc < 1235253238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/module/applesmc/drivers/platform:applesmc < 1235253239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/module/input_polldev/holders/applesmc < 1235253240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I guessed wrong < 1235253241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/module/led_class/holders/applesmc < 1235253242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't pci < 1235253242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta be one of them < 1235253243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235253244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to find out which < 1235253257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. Did you try google btw? < 1235253268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235253270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot < 1235253278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacBookPro/SantaRosaFanControl < 1235253281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that one? < 1235253295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1235253298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macbook < 1235253302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have issues with applesmc too < 1235253304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235253312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of these days I'll have time to dig into applesmc to understand how it works... " < 1235253314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT promising < 1235253330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I never had issues like this when installing linux < 1235253338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsurprising < 1235253350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? I never got a computer with linux pre-installed < 1235253361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/got// < 1235253367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bought? < 1235253370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235253374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or received, or owned < 1235253377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1235253378 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235253378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235253380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1235253402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the largest problem I ever had was with some old old "winmodem" back when I had dialup < 1235253418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I did find a driver in the end. But this was back on 2.4 kernels < 1235253426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate winmodems so. much. < 1235253428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then it worked mostly painlessly < 1235253430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, me too < 1235253431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1235253432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a USB winmodem when I was with Tiscali < 1235253435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bane of my existance < 1235253446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonig to leave the fan < 1235253448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not harming anyone < 1235253466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvidia-drivers sometimes had issues with last kernel, however often easy to fix by selecting another version < 1235253473 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1235253477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo tends to make many versions available of nvidia-drivers < 1235253487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I] x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers < 1235253488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Available versions: 71.86.06!s 71.86.07!s ~71.86.08!s 96.43.07!s 96.43.09!s ~96.43.10!s 100.14.19!s 173.14.09!s ~173.14.12!s 173.14.15!s ~173.14.16!s ~177.80!s 177.82!s ~180.22!s ~180.27!s ~180.29!s {acpi custom-cflags gtk kernel_FreeBSD kernel_linux multilib userland_BSD} < 1235253488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Installed versions: 177.82!s(14:49:55 01/31/09)(acpi gtk kernel_linux multilib -custom-cflags) < 1235253493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My graphics driver in here is the propietary fglrx one, I think < 1235253500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ATI: ouch < 1235253506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ATI is another bad one < 1235253511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a ATI card once < 1235253517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changed to nvidia < 1235253520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when I bought this mac you could only get nvidia with a mac pro, and it was more expensive < 1235253527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this graphics card has served me fine, anyway < 1235253528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I feel sorry for you to have ATI < 1235253532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on windows ATI sucks < 1235253535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm happy :P < 1235253546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes right, but ATI tends to have issues on linux < 1235253550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make shitty drivers < 1235253553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really has any issues < 1235253555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*had < 1235253557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even their own closed source ones < 1235253564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I'm lucky < 1235253572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure so does nvidia, but they are at least less shitty < 1235253646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is sad, you get more useful hits when goolging for applesmc -ubuntu than for applesmc < 1235253653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235253675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: here's how my text rendering/etc currently looks: < 1235253676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/trdxnd/snapshot1.png < 1235253680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.mactel-linux.org/wiki/AppleSMC < 1235253682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that useful? < 1235253687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen that page < 1235253690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't really helpful < 1235253695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's internals documentation < 1235253698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr download dialog < 1235253705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, filebin does that < 1235253713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ompload++ < 1235253731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wary to click on omploader links because it was originally designed as a shock site hoster < 1235253735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, atm my gimp seems broken, it says this when trying to open urls: < 1235253736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Procedure 'gimp-file-load' has been called with value '(null)' for argument 'filename' (#2, type gchararray). This value is out of range. < 1235253756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wgets < 1235253768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1235253769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What in the butt is Omploader? < 1235253771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Omploader was originally crea < 1235253772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235253775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1235253776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What in the butt is Omploader? < 1235253778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: Omploader was originally created to become the ultimate shock site hosting service b < 1235253779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1235253782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235253787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it says that? < 1235253791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/faq.xhtml < 1235253792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sure < 1235253792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked in FAQ recently iirc < 1235253801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1235253815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway your screenshot definitely seems like the auto-hinter crap < 1235253821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1235253824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks decent though < 1235253849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think mine looks a bit better. Could be due to careful tuning for this monitor < 1235253891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean apple can easily pre-tune since they know exactly what monitor will be used in most of the cases. < 1235253897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1235253923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and they have worked with this for ages. I mean apple used to be used in DTP a lot < 1235253933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still is < 1235253936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowdays windows is probably used sometimes, but even so apple is still quite common there < 1235253937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235253950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean I often wanted something like coloursync < 1235253965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is a few things like it, tinycms and such < 1235253967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS will have perfect antialiasing. :-P < 1235253974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1235253981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, perfect everything else. < 1235253983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect pony providing. < 1235253991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, be prepared to pay apple then for the patent < 1235253994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1235254004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just invent my own and be a hermit until I finish it < 1235254017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with bytecode interpreter I can see no difference to rendering on a mac if I use the same font < 1235254030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? like your screenshot? < 1235254034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's way different to how a mac would do it < 1235254046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mac text pretty much looks like printed text < 1235254047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that wasn't using the same font that would be found on a mac < 1235254049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit less thick < 1235254056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have dejavu on my mac < 1235254088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I don't like how a mac does it so I changed a bit from that. + firefox isn't the best to handle spacing < 1235254103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using arora browser < 1235254104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit + qt < 1235254113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean for hinting and such < 1235254146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea for future X extension: XTeX < 1235254153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :renders on screen with tex in realtime < 1235254154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1235254159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1235254162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give you the best possible experience < 1235254176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it sends it off to an automated professional printer < 1235254182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh nice < 1235254187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then automates scanning the result < 1235254190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a high-quality scanner < 1235254197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with the microtype package? < 1235254201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the rendering < 1235254203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maps its draft rendering to the scanned copy to smooth out edges and map up the text < 1235254207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ta-daaaaaaaaaaa < 1235254256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf < 1235254261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice < 1235254273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The application Konqueror (konqueror) crashed and caused the signal 11 (SIGSEGV). < 1235254275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please help us improve the software you use by filing a report at http://bugs.kde.org. Useful details include how to reproduce the error, documents that were loaded, etc. < 1235254276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greaaat < 1235254284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, included by default in recent texlive < 1235254294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never happens to me < 1235254299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want to summarize it because I can't open that? < 1235254312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been something like 1.2 years since I last saw a KDE crash dialog for a KDE app < 1235254319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1235254325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3.5 is stable :) < 1235254340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway try firefox maybe? < 1235254344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, kde 3.5 crashed all the time for me < 1235254347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll try arora < 1235254358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strange what is it with you and Linux... < 1235254364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I know < 1235254368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the packages hate you < 1235254374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not their builder < 1235254378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to compile your own < 1235254383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like blood groups < 1235254391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graaaah, I restarted my mouse and now it won't recognize it < 1235254396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HULK SMASH < 1235254402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are incompatible with whowever built the package < 1235254406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ouch that is a bad one < 1235254409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never had that issue < 1235254419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can disconnect and reconnect the mouse and it works perfectly < 1235254423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you it is USB < 1235254426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so may differ < 1235254433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have any bluetooth in this computer < 1235254435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1235254443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc it differs :P < 1235254462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, reconnected < 1235254521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, who wants to hear me rant about how computing sucks and my OS would fix everything? < 1235254534 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-39.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235254568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1235254586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all do? awesome! < 1235254599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unless it is written is 99.9999 % Haskell 0.0001 % ASM and 0 % C: No thanks < 1235254614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: s/Haskell/Lisp/ and you got it < 1235254615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is written is 99.9999 % Haskell 0.0001 % ASM and 0 % C: Thanks, but no < 1235254626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1235254631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is there a fast forward option? < 1235254638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the rant < 1235254649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at selected digressions. < 1235254739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I have two things to say: 1) Software patents blocked linux being great more than once. Fonts, hot patching kernel, colour management... and lots more 2) Apple know exactly what hardware their OS will run on. And they can afford patents. (In fact they own several). < 1235254754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) agreed there, it's a shame < 1235254765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, At least I don't need to reboot just because I updated itunes :D < 1235254769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) i'm not happy with owning patents, but indeed knowing the hardware is very helpful < 1235254772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, nor I < 1235254783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to boot up for core system updates, and firmware updatesss < 1235254787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm pretty sure I saw a mac reboot after an upgrade to it recently.. < 1235254788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1235254793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, maybe QuickTime < 1235254799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicktime is heavily integrated into os x < 1235254806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is generally bundled with an itunes upgrade < 1235254814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. quicktime upgrade = itunes upgrade, but sometimes itunes upgrade without quicktime upgrade < 1235254816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I upgraded from glibc 2.6 to 2.8 a few days ago. Recompiled binutils, libtool, gcc, gdb and valgrind after < 1235254819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't rebooted yet < 1235254822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything works fine < 1235254825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against the new glibc < 1235254827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that with os x too. < 1235254829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core system component < 1235254841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you'd have to close all apps and reopen them entirely < 1235254849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because just about all of them rely on the kind of stuff making you reboot < 1235254852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is possible quicktime was upgraded < 1235254854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point, might as well just reboot.. < 1235254867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um I haven't closed anything after that upgrade < 1235254875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I even upgraded X without restarting it < 1235254881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or QT without exiting KDE < 1235254884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it works < 1235254891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different kind of thing, but w/e < 1235254892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only once it broke, for QT < 1235254931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got "psychedelic colour" KDE. I think it managed to confuse Alpha channel or such < 1235254937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarting KDE helped that time < 1235254938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1235254968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rant mode turning on in 60 seconds... ^C to abort... < 1235254970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beeeep < 1235254970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on all menus, just after the shortcut info... < 1235254972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C < 1235254983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ^C < 1235254985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? ^C for yes, ^Z for no < 1235254988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ^C < 1235254992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** 40 seconds remaining * < 1235254996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you really sure? < 1235254999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235255005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes really < 1235255007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please use the correct key combinations < 1235255011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^C < 1235255020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Z for yes, ^C for no. ok, thanks for accepting my rants < 1235255022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235255024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** 25 seconds remaining ** < 1235255024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1235255026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C < 1235255027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C < 1235255030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Z < 1235255031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1235255036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you really sure? < 1235255044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you -- user entered too many keys at once. Returning to main loop. < 1235255048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** 10 seconds remaining * < 1235255050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1235255057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I'm going to /ignore < 1235255062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1235255065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** BOOT UP COMPLETED * < 1235255067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1235255096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWAITING FOR USER TO FORGET ABOUT IGNORING SYSTEM BEFORE CONTINUING. < 1235255119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIFTY EYES. < 1235255145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: PROMPTING FOR CONFIRMATION OF FORGETTING [YN] < 1235255275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/19/quicken-online-cant-believe-mint-is-doing-so-well-sends-threatening-letter/ < 1235255279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facepalm < 1235255352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: am I on ignore? < 1235255418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, Hm ever considered that there is more than one type of ignore? < 1235255437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[22:24] ehird, then I'm going to /ignore < 1235255440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was qute specific < 1235255474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well isn't that the command you use in your brain for mental ignore? If not get new cyborg implements(sp?) < 1235255483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait for the singularity :P < 1235255498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, E_UNKNOWN_REF < 1235255520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've talked about it quite a bit in here. < 1235255521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know what singularity is in math and in black holes, I don't know how it is related to this < 1235255521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity < 1235255549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also see http://yudkowsky.net/obsolete/singularity.html (despite obsolete marker, still worthwhile) < 1235255627 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, what? < 1235255634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, forget it < 1235255649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you were an innocent bystander < 1235255720 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1235255729 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COLLATERAL DAMAGE? < 1235255746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, for a joke yes < 1235255771 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the other kinds of ignore? < 1235255797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw what do you think of cleartype style antialias < 1235255807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like using just some colours < 1235255811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I hate it < 1235255824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this screen it looks horrible < 1235255831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cleartype is better than a lot of linux font rendering, but apart from that, it' scrapp < 1235255832 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cleartype is ugly < 1235255836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh keyboard laggy < 1235255838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235255843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, keyboard lags? < 1235255844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1235255847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never happened to me < 1235255859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess when I managed to cause swap trashing... it happened partly < 1235255870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only then < 1235255894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so how the heck did you manage to get your keyboard to lag < 1235255903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what made you install ubuntu < 1235255905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1235255938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wireless keyboard thats been trhashed over the years < 1235255957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and, ais upgrading < 1235255984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1235255991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais isn't connected < 1235255991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235255995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier today < 1235255998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1235256006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you wanted to try last version? < 1235256033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235256074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grah < 1235256082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't reconnect < 1235256084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf not... < 1235256155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1235256159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grah? < 1235256173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grah=gah + irritation < 1235256188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I never used bluetooth under linux (or any other OS) so afraid I can't help here < 1235256202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a PS/2 keyboard in fact heh < 1235256213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB mouse from Microsoft < 1235256216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps/2? < 1235256218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1235256233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why replace it? if the keyboard works and is nice to type on < 1235256238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it isn't broken yet < 1235256251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never replace stuff I don't need to replace < 1235256255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't get device information: Host is down < 1235256257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is hidd on < 1235256264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hidd? < 1235256276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bluetooth thing < 1235256282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ sudo hidd --connect 00:0A:95:4A:C6:08 < 1235256284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't get device information: Host is down < 1235256301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I used same mobile phone for like 5 years. Until recently my phone had black and white screen and like 3 lines of text < 1235256314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um no idea < 1235256316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmesg? < 1235256328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/log/* ? < 1235256332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 5250.154819] applesmc: 3 fans found. < 1235256335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ wow. 3 fans. < 1235256336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1235256348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have that many in my computer: CPU, GPU, PSU < 1235256352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 fans < 1235256363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gpu one is really loud < 1235256369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cpu is fairly loud too < 1235256384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels back fan HOLY FUCK THAT'S HOT < 1235256389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION warms hands < 1235256390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea < 1235256399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have cpufreq-info < 1235256403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly root only < 1235256408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut's that fof < 1235256409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for < 1235256410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'll find out what package it is < 1235256422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, finding out if you use dynamic cpu speed < 1235256426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or run at max all the time < 1235256453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ cpufreq-info < 1235256454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'cpufreq-info' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1235256456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install cpufrequtils < 1235256457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: cpufreq-info: command not found < 1235256459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ sudo apt-get install cpufrequtils < 1235256459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpufrequtils < 1235256460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235256460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that part of ubuntu < 1235256461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235256476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I guess you have like thousands of symlinks in /usr/bin from it... < 1235256481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1235256483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bash hack < 1235256486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1235256488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1235256493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/YIUplv84.html < 1235256494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1235256502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to change you use cpufreq-set < 1235256511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :analyzing CPU 0: < 1235256513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : driver: acpi-cpufreq < 1235256515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CPUs which need to switch frequency at the same time: 0 < 1235256516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will probably want to put it in some startup script < 1235256516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hardware limits: 1000 MHz - 2.17 GHz < 1235256518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : available frequency steps: 2.17 GHz, 2.00 GHz, 1.83 GHz, 1.67 GHz, 1.50 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 1000 MHz < 1235256519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : available cpufreq governors: userspace, ondemand, conservative, powersave, performance < 1235256521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current policy: frequency should be within 1000 MHz and 2.17 GHz. < 1235256522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use < 1235256524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : within this range. < 1235256524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235256524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235256525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current CPU frequency is 1000 MHz. < 1235256527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :analyzing CPU 1: < 1235256528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235256528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : driver: acpi-cpufreq < 1235256530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CPUs which need to switch frequency at the same time: 1 < 1235256531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why so hot < 1235256531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hardware limits: 1000 MHz - 2.17 GHz < 1235256534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : available frequency steps: 2.17 GHz, 2.00 GHz, 1.83 GHz, 1.67 GHz, 1.50 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 1000 MHz < 1235256534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : available cpufreq governors: userspace, ondemand, conservative, powersave, performance < 1235256537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current policy: frequency should be within 1000 MHz and 2.17 GHz. < 1235256538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use < 1235256540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : within this range. < 1235256543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : current CPU frequency is 1000 MHz. < 1235256544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee flood < 1235256544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that seems fine then < 1235256546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1235256548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1235256552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is currently at lowest speed < 1235256558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ondemand makes it run faster when needed < 1235256564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure why it is hot then < 1235256571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it is normal < 1235256574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard is now connected, mouse is now laggy -_- < 1235256581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn, ubuntu. goddamn. < 1235256582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I feel for you < 1235256593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't know why < 1235256610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway stuff like this tends to be not very well documented < 1235256623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and differ between vendors < 1235256627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, all reconnected < 1235256629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god < 1235256633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who produce drivers for whatever OS they suppor < 1235256638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like windows drivers < 1235256640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mac ones < 1235256646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my os would fix this all :P < 1235256659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, running mac OS on a non-mac tends to be worse than linux on a mac < 1235256669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osx86 has matured a lot < 1235256679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine OS X on a pc is less painful than this < 1235256696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the hardware it works on is way more limited than the hardware linux works on < 1235256697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235256703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235256710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, apple can fine tune for their hardware < 1235256720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is only the 50th time you have said this < 1235256722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235256724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC vendors can fine tune and/or write drivers for windows < 1235256735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux devs lack this possibility < 1235256736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to say it a few more times? < 1235256745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks but no < 1235256757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you complain about linux again :P < 1235256781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not complaining about linux, just my situation with linux < 1235256787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fan and ACPI stuff can usually be made to work < 1235256793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be way worse < 1235256811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I remember back on linux 2.6.8 or so, it used to kernel panic if I rebooted by USB printer < 1235256829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235256838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you want to hear my OS rants? < 1235256842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when men were real men... < 1235256846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're insightful, I swear. < 1235256850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what year was that < 1235256874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure... but it was on opensuse < 1235256905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i first used linux in 2004 I think < 1235256912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and I remember compiling a custom 2.4 kernel and fighting to death with lilo < 1235256914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work with my modem so I gave up < 1235256917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was times < 1235256918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got it working circa 2006 < 1235256921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nostalgic* < 1235256940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time I used was back with red hat 5.x iirc < 1235256948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe 6.0 < 1235256967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did this in Connitx VirtualPC on a 300 MHz ibook (first model) < 1235256971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES NOBODY WANT TO ENTERTAIN MY NOTIONS ;_; < 1235256983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't have enough disk space to install anything but a very basic system < 1235256992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1235256995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what notions < 1235257000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os ranting :D < 1235257003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235257015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yes System 7... < 1235257018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun times < 1235257025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashed more than windows 95 < 1235257029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though less than ME < 1235257031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system 7 was quite nice < 1235257039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only used it like once or twice < 1235257040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh yes except when macbug opened < 1235257041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235257045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, nice when it worked :P < 1235257080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and no silly eye candy like windows going down into the dock like they were drawn down by a vacuum cleaner < 1235257088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I hate that animation < 1235257095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully there isn't much else like it in os x < 1235257101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't guess: I hate it too < 1235257120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it still wins the price for worst eye candy ever IMO < 1235257129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll agree with that < 1235257132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even compiz comes at second place after that < 1235257141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really really really hate compiz < 1235257156 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235257161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these fans are making the computer hotter. < 1235257167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck if I want to minimize a window I want to do it now, I don't want to wait for a bloody animation < 1235257182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a trial version after all < 1235257188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should I have to live with such stuff < 1235257202 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235257203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really how would the fans make it hotter!? < 1235257209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1235257211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the heat of their operation :-D < 1235257214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1235257222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it isn't offset by the fans? < 1235257239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also um... haven't figured out how to turn them off yet? < 1235257241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very hot, if the fans are _cooling_ it I want to know why it's so hot < 1235257243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try fancontrol maybe < 1235257247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from lm_sensors < 1235257255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing can be hot unless it's got fans, that's obvious < 1235257256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it fails because I have no /etc/fancontrol < 1235257262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh < 1235257263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235257266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol < 1235257285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc you use pwmconfig to generate it < 1235257287 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235257296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, man page agrees with me < 1235257310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Since most of you are going to use pwmconfig(8) script, the config file syntax will be discussed last. First I'm going to describe the var- < 1235257310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ious variables available for changing fancontrol's behaviour: < 1235257321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/sbin/pwmconfig: There are no pwm-capable sensor modules installed < 1235257368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1235257379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I guess your fan is controlled with ACPI then < 1235257382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or applesmc < 1235257388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applesmc. :P < 1235257433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fun thing is it detects some things to change fan speed and even where to read fan speed, but changing them actually doesn't do anything < 1235257435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1235257439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my computer < 1235257451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking at the mobo the fan isn't controllable < 1235257463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan, want to hear my ranting? < 1235257474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was constant speed under the preinstalled winxp too < 1235257487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: < 1235257490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensors-detect < 1235257493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root < 1235257499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may find some way to read temp < 1235257509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use driver `i2c-i801' for device 0000:00:1f.3: Intel 82801G ICH7 < 1235257512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it may even be able to handle smc thing < 1235257517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1235257521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it prints lots of stuff < 1235257533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see if it finds anything in the end < 1235257542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Driver `coretemp' (should be inserted): < 1235257544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Detects correctly: < 1235257545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Chip `Intel Core family thermal sensor' (confidence: 9) < 1235257547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1235257548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1235257557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that allows reading temp from cpu < 1235257558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1235257571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ sudo modprobe coretemp < 1235257572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some intel core* had broken temp sensors < 1235257573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:~$ < 1235257574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hokay < 1235257576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know CPU errata < 1235257578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what < 1235257583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um didn't it print more < 1235257587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did sensors-detect finish? < 1235257587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1235257589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235257596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it tell you to edit some file? < 1235257603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /etc/sensors.conf < 1235257608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add specific lines? < 1235257610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1235257611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just /etc/modules to add coretemp < 1235257612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not: < 1235257620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo sensors < 1235257628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully that will print something like temp < 1235257629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cpus < 1235257633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the applesmc stuff < 1235257637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1235257646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not fan control yet, but you can see temp now < 1235257647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temperature for both around 35C < 1235257649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope < 1235257655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then why so hot < 1235257656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Can't get value of subfeature temp3_input: I/O error < 1235257657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes (again) that irssi doesn't mark lines containing my nick without a : after < 1235257659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints the same for 5 and 9 < 1235257660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :35C sunds normal < 1235257662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1235257665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is normal < 1235257667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ERROR: Can't get value of subfeature temp3_input: I/O error <-- weird yeah < 1235257669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235257673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp4: +50.8°C < 1235257675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my CPU is 29 C atm though < 1235257675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite high < 1235257678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno what they are though < 1235257683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to be the cpu < 1235257695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my CPU is more powerful :P < 1235257720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on PCs you can usually do like "go into bios, check temp, write down what each one is", go into linux, compare temps and find out which one maps to what < 1235257724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however that would be hard on macs < 1235257727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1235257732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so I have temperature measures < 1235257734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no auto fan control thouh < 1235257737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, YET < 1235257742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1235257750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is searching gentoo packages for "apple" and "fan" atm < 1235257779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wouldn't that tend to find a lot of cursing? < 1235257799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pun detected but not understood < 1235257816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"damn apple fans" and such < 1235257827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235257828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1235257832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs sbcl < 1235257834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235257840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a linux system if you don't have SBCL! < 1235257845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, package database, as in searching portage < 1235257851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# eix -cS apple < 1235257851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[N] app-cdr/gcdemu (1.0.0): gCDEmu is a GNOME applet for controlling CDEmu daemon < 1235257851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[N] app-i18n/imhangul-status-applet (~0.3-r1): Status Applet for imhangul < 1235257851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[N] app-laptop/gkrellm-pmu (--): GKrellM2 plugin for battery display on Apple machines < 1235257855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1235257863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah finds lot of "applet" < 1235257886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* (* 29834923847239472934783947239842 198438712364872634872347682637482163478) < 1235257887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5920403871750233040095493286841638728722288213740963433203084718890476 < 1235257889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sbcl works :P < 1235257891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can do regexes, try apple\> or whatever < 1235257910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what regex dialect would that be < 1235257936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well vim i think < 1235257940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1235257951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I would need PCRE here < 1235257955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do a negative lookahead < 1235257961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this seems like POSIX regex < 1235257988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl doesn't have an end-of-word marker? < 1235257996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err this isn't perl < 1235258000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is using POSIX < 1235258012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well same question < 1235258038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought POSIX was similar to vim anyhow, at least more than to perl < 1235258057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eix -cS apple | pcregrep -i 'apple(?!t)' | grep --color=yes -i apple < 1235258059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1235258065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly yes < 1235258116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok \> is definitely grep too < 1235258163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eix -cS apple | grep --color=yes -i 'apple\>' < 1235258232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless you insist on allowing letters other than t < 1235258262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1235258273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what kernel version? < 1235258275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname -a < 1235258284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux fhtagn 2.6.27-7-generic #1 SMP Tue Nov 4 19:33:06 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1235258288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1235258346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this applesmc driver is unusually badly documented < 1235258349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about: < 1235258352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo modinfo applsmc < 1235258354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235258356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo modinfo applesmc < 1235258364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filename: /lib/modules/2.6.27-7-generic/kernel/drivers/hwmon/applesmc.ko < 1235258365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :license: GPL v2 < 1235258367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :description: Apple SMC < 1235258368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :author: Nicolas Boichat < 1235258370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srcversion: 25CB42F01F4B61FD05EC33F < 1235258371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends: led-class,input-polldev < 1235258373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vermagic: 2.6.27-7-generic SMP mod_unload modversions < 1235258374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally helpful < 1235258380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very indeed < 1235258384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sometimes it has stuff like: < 1235258389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parm: scatter_elem_sz:scatter gather element size (default: max(SG_SCATTER_SZ, PAGE_SIZE)) (int) < 1235258389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parm: def_reserved_size:size of buffer reserved for each fd (int) < 1235258389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parm: allow_dio:allow direct I/O (default: 0 (disallow)) (int) < 1235258391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1235258397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :module parameters < 1235258401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that control behaviour < 1235258409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for the nfs module, what ports to use < 1235258462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, did you poke around in sysfs < 1235258470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible the same directory or the one just above < 1235258477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also symlinks are relevant < 1235258479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, I've poked around < 1235258480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much unfortunatel < 1235258484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235258486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1235258515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything in /proc/sys about fan? < 1235258519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or applesmc < 1235258535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:/proc/sys$ find . -name apple < 1235258536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:/proc/sys$ find . -name fan < 1235258538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:/proc/sys$ < 1235258545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235258554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway the stuff for fan should be in sysfs < 1235258558 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-20-225.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1235258580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just this file is using so many macros I'm not sure how it works < 1235258627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235258631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's worth bothering < 1235258632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, find /sys -name '*fan*_safe*' < 1235258633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try that < 1235258646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it will be stuff like fan1_safe < 1235258653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the same directory there should be other control files < 1235258655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/devices/platform/applesmc.768/fan3_safe < 1235258656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/devices/platform/applesmc.768/fan2_safe < 1235258658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sys/devices/platform/applesmc.768/fan1_safe < 1235258659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1235258670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i did find /sys applesmc yknow < 1235258674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you read the output? :P < 1235258675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in that directory there will be other fan[1-3]_* < 1235258677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yes, a lot of stuff < 1235258684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them allows write < 1235258688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/O7ipKO59.html < 1235258699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fan##offset##_min < 1235258703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you replace that < 1235258716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the ##offset## bit I mean < 1235258725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@fhtagn:/sys/devices/platform/applesmc.768$ cat fan{1,2,3}_{min,max} < 1235258727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :800 < 1235258728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 < 1235258730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1400 < 1235258731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000 < 1235258733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :800 < 1235258734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3600 < 1235258737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe lower the minimum will help < 1235258743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it is safe or not < 1235258745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I want to mess around with that < 1235258751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nor am I < 1235258751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, these fans are on one setting < 1235258753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :permanently < 1235258754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm < 1235258759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, atm yes < 1235258765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applesmc_store_fan_manual < 1235258766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235258774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fan##offset##_manual < 1235258775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1235258778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all at 0 < 1235258792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, fan 1 @ 859 < 1235258794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235258795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fan 2 @ 1481 < 1235258797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fan 3 @ 1223 < 1235258802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only fan3 is more than a tiny bit above default < 1235258804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, let me check how that works < 1235258812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are fanN_input < 1235258816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235258818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they do? < 1235258823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list the current < 1235258824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed < 1235258829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1235258848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define FANS_MANUAL "FS! " /* r-w ui16 */ < 1235258850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235258854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was very useful < 1235258855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1235258857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235258872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very poorly documented this... < 1235258892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys. is it just me or are you being really boring? < 1235258904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: shall I RANT ABOUT OSES?!?!?!?! < 1235258925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to see rant about oses < 1235258930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not specific instances of oses < 1235258935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1235258937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a rant in general < 1235258940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also crazy ideas I have < 1235258944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colon bar < 1235258946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I can't type a bar) < 1235258955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a lot of os ideas < 1235258963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine are better you should listen to them. < 1235258973 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235258979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is your model "imac"? < 1235258988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235258998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imac g5 is ppc I guess < 1235259000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ideas are sexually meaningful. < 1235259000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what imac < 1235259006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mine also. < 1235259008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1235259011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one just after g5 < 1235259016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :september 2006 intel core 2 duo < 1235259017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do I google for < 1235259018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are yours gradually approachable? < 1235259018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT aluminium < 1235259024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: erm, imac core 2 duo < 1235259026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1235259027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235259028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also gradually unapproachable. < 1235259031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. mine aren't. < 1235259034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get more and more taboo. it ends with child rape. < 1235259040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ANYWAY. < 1235259046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only gradually approach that which is close to what you already know. < 1235259054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mine are lightyears ahead. < 1235259057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i invented a new type of gradual approaching. < 1235259064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235259068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that does sound kinda serious. < 1235259068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves making bad analogies to current systems, then outright explaining the radical ideas < 1235259072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brain goes into shock and then absorbs it. < 1235259078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235259080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i love it < 1235259087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i send my moneys < 1235259103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 orchard terrace, hexham, northumberland, united kingdom, ne46 3pw < 1235259107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes that's my real address) < 1235259132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1235259139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now is it really? < 1235259141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1235259144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's close. < 1235259162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sounds plausible it'd be correct < 1235259167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again you probably know what i know. < 1235259189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're the only source for that type of data. < 1235259213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1235259215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1235259216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1235259218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1235259219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN'T SHIFT < 1235259223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235259224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1235259225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1235259229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothin < 1235259230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1235259232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjusting keyboard layout < 1235259233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1235259236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1235259240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you found it? < 1235259243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah < 1235259253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol can I explain my os-ly ideas < 1235259255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess it is different for ubuntu, probably has some fancy place to do it < 1235259260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just kde < 1235259262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in system prefs < 1235259268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah what about console? < 1235259274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you don't care I guess < 1235259276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235259277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bingo :P < 1235259284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm at the console my objective is to escape it asap < 1235259289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I broke X < 1235259291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay funniest thing in at least 10 minutes < 1235259297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ehird: I CAN'T SHIFT" <<< thought you said "SHIT" < 1235259301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was funny with the smileys. < 1235259303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1235259304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secretly < 1235259306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you try looking for some apple irc channel? < 1235259306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1235259309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there is one < 1235259321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, but not linux+mac < 1235259326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1235259328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure? < 1235259330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can explain sure. < 1235259330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235259333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs emacs < 1235259342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I heard there was one called #esoteric or something.. < 1235259345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1235259355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay so before I start, I have to explainerate the context of this OS < 1235259368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure explainerate through it. < 1235259386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a simple bootloader and system setup sort of stuff in asm, then it runs a lisp compiler like sbcl and compiles the rest of the kernel & os on the fly < 1235259387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it runs them < 1235259388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fun, I google for linux fancontrol imac intel' < 1235259391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err -' < 1235259394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has the effect that the rest of the OS is written in lisp < 1235259398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the first hit doesn't have "linux" on it < 1235259399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere < 1235259400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can modify right down to the kernel at runtime < 1235259403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid google < 1235259404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works < 1235259413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can't modify the asm part but that's just a tiny part, only for bootup) < 1235259419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and you can modify right down to the kernel at runtime <-- you mean hot patch kernel at runtime < 1235259422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1235259423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry MS patent < 1235259428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care < 1235259429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what prevented it for linux < 1235259429 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1235259433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been done before MS did it < 1235259447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they sue me 1) i'm a minor 2) that patent would be struck down almost certainly < 1235259470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so, not only do we have lisp (awesome) we have an OS that you can hack random stuff in oko-style just like that < 1235259477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty good basis if I do say so myself < 1235259510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow I doubt there's going to be anything new with PLAN9 Unix. < 1235259512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ < 1235259513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I installed it once, nothing runs, nothing works, it's very cut down. I think it uses TWM, but with not even as much as Firefox existing, I'm unsure how useful it could be. < 1235259515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ please let that be sarcasm < 1235259537 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what exactly did they patent? the general concept of being able to change parts of the os at runtime? < 1235259540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://lwn.net/Articles/280058/ < 1235259542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ^ < 1235259546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the definition of hot-patching a kernel < 1235259552 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235259555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, see that link < 1235259563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and http://www.ksplice.com/ < 1235259571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a US-only patent right? < 1235259580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't know < 1235259583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people in the US use the system at their own risk :P < 1235259591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where risk = 0) < 1235259604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: software patents are invalid in europe < 1235259607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to recent court ruling < 1235259608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1235259611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :) < 1235259620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm sure MS and others will try to change that < 1235259629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235259632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't be sure how long it will last < 1235259647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, yeah, the lisp isn't an interpreter, so it's fast enough for an OS, < 1235259650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more jit-style < 1235259652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except ... more batch < 1235259661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it can recompile on the fly, but it doesn't do it every line of code < 1235259667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1235259669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1235259676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the lisp in my os < 1235259682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how will you manage to avoid some low level asm? < 1235259688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom instruction set? < 1235259696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there will be some asm < 1235259698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235259700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the initial bootup and really low level stuff < 1235259705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that can be changed on fly? < 1235259711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, unfortunately not < 1235259716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the compiler will probably have inline asm < 1235259716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1235259728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because modifying bootup stuff is useless < 1235259732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to reboot to run it anyway < 1235259734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also have you looked at QNX? < 1235259737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235259745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it semi-open now < 1235259750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, a lot of the stuff you might think needs asm might not < 1235259751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what license < 1235259752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to inline asm in the lisp < 1235259756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc you could modify that) < 1235259757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that patent only apply to computers? < 1235259759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty sure it is open/shared source atm < 1235259762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235259764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says so right. < 1235259792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, heretical idea #2: < 1235259798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, What you just said sounded very interesting but I'm not sure where you can take that < 1235259803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you can't patent that. while it may not be true, it's a fact. < 1235259819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where was idea #1? < 1235259820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well i was just wondering what exactly it is they patented < 1235259831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the lisp-recompilingy thingy u pthere < 1235259838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ask a lawyer, no one else can read the text < 1235259845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1235259850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so idea 2: < 1235259852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is idea #2 then? < 1235259880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1235259881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orthogonal persistence. this is, very simply, persistence of memory to disk. To quote Torsion's readme: (torsion was an experimental OS implementing orthogonal persistence:) < 1235259882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how can you invent hot-patching, not doing hot-patching is not theoretically meaningful, it's just a performance optimization. < 1235259882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What this means is that you can write a valueto anywhere in memory, [...], trip over the power cable, and then on the next boot that value < 1235259884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will still be exactly where you set it in memory. What's more, you can < 1235259885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc() a chunk of memory, and on the next boot it will remain allocated. < 1235259907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, after a memory-changing operation is performed, it works immediately, after a tiny delay, it's written to disk < 1235259917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same is done for computations: so you can be in the middle of an intensive 3d render < 1235259921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**trip over power cable** < 1235259922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot it < 1235259924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it resumes like nothing happened < 1235259929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would probably have performance issues due to the speed diff between ram and disk < 1235259932 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1235259934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's why you wait a bita < 1235259937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do it in another thread < 1235259949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all operations just go to RAM, the disk stuff just runs in the background at oppertune times < 1235259959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to make that useful you would need some sort of transactional stuff < 1235259961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything < 1235259965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not quite < 1235259973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ways to do it, but too boring/long to explain here < 1235259979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, otherwise this will cause everything to break at crash really < 1235259983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235259986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are implementations that work < 1235259991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't have enough of an imagination :) < 1235259994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? links or what? < 1235259997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: while no current os may support those, they aren't exactly very interesting. you're just removing limitations that shouldn't be there in the first place. < 1235260002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://torsion.org < 1235260004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: those come later < 1235260008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going more heretical as it goes on < 1235260009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have not enough of an imagination to know what to google for < 1235260010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see. < 1235260014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, so, orthogonal persistence: it's possible, it's been done for quite a long time, and it means just saying no to data loss & computation loss < 1235260017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :additionally < 1235260047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means you can COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH THE FILESYSTEM. Just use memory. One address space. Clean, logical, simple, efficient. Instead of the monocultured interface of the FS, data can be presented in various ways according to its type and the best representation. < 1235260049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://torsion.org <-- any introduction? Like readme or whatever. the docs seems like doxygen api docs < 1235260055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster explodes* < 1235260061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope. it's dormant. read the code. < 1235260072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1235260079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens url in ark < 1235260097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so stuff to memory persistently all the time, is it a log-structured fs or something? < 1235260098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah README < 1235260099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, heretical ideas: 1) runtime-modifiable lisp OS 2) orthogonal persistence 2a) no FS -- just use orthogonal persistence < 1235260114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you pretty much just mirror the memory to disk < 1235260132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fun fact about this: memory leaks persist until you free them by hand < 1235260133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235260139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2a is a bit more heretical, but it's still something i can't imagine anyone *not* having in an os, file systems make absolutely no sense. < 1235260155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i totally agree < 1235260159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1235260161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSes today are just crap < 1235260164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is hard since you don't know where they are < 1235260167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they leaked < 1235260168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff is pretty obvious < 1235260176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i've said that before and you've laughed at my weirdness < 1235260178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to somehow handle memory leaks < 1235260178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not < 1235260181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can use regular tools like valgrind < 1235260188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, most stuff should be written using a high level language < 1235260192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, y'know, the lisp :P < 1235260200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for legacy C programs, wrap a gc or whatever around them. < 1235260223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm mostly unconcerned about backwards compatibility; that just leads to cruft < 1235260228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how could you garbage collect the lisp, you would need to mark the persistent object to not GC or such < 1235260241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, you mark documents you want as kept < 1235260248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a few trix < 1235260251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's useful tip #1: forget legacy code, being backwards-compatible is for monkeys < 1235260256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then it isn't full orthogonal persistence for everything? < 1235260259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1235260262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1235260266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i have some actually heretical ideas, but OSes today are so ridiculously behind that you have to go gradually < 1235260279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pretty much plan to implement the should-already-exist heretical ones, then experiment further with the more heretical ones < 1235260286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: true. < 1235260293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for your avg linux user, 1-2a are already pretty wtfy < 1235260300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders real word reference counting garbage collection < 1235260302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1235260305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is happening < 1235260314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reminds me of my tiny url garbage collector < 1235260324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why is everyone trying to get referenced in papers and such < 1235260329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you scan all atoms in the universe for references to the URL, encrypted in any way shape or form < 1235260331 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean like ppl coming to your house and observing what you're using and what not, and taking away the stuff that you don't? < 1235260333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's none, remove the URL. < 1235260339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scientific papers wants to get referenced by other papers < 1235260345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to not become garbage collected < 1235260351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as people in media < 1235260366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235260379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wanna share some of your ideas? i've probably heard of them but i'm intrigued < 1235260385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more people know about you = less risk of being collected by the ninja garbage collectors < 1235260385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235260394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love ninjas. sexually. < 1235260395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err. < 1235260397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well actually to be clear i don't consider 1 a feature every os should absolutely have :P < 1235260400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard that < 1235260400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1235260405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're wrong :D < 1235260406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe i should. < 1235260407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235260409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1235260410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1235260413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ninja NOMADS?! < 1235260422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. they're purely functional, you must understand. < 1235260427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no unneccessary objects on them. < 1235260427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no I think ehird's brain exploded < 1235260451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in fact, my features are only a small step to be considered "decent" by me. i have a very high standard of "decent", "good" is near impossible :P < 1235260512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think in real world, for things to be useful, certain things need to be "weakrefs" < 1235260521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, this is all details < 1235260522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninja MONADS!! < 1235260523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you would only keep the worst < 1235260525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea is what matters < 1235260526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1235260533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like bad politicians < 1235260534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1235260539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my ideas are pretty simple, i just want everything to use a unified very dynamic object type. webpages containing pictures actually being just a list of picture objects on a remote site (which you cannot in general detect) and all that. type conversion being a very fundamental concept in the os, for "different formats", that is different implementations of the same concept. < 1235260540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would never be garbage collected < 1235260546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they should < 1235260554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: right, that's more higher level than I've been talkin' about < 1235260564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but i'm a nutcase < 1235260566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235260568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1235260572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw you shouldn't use a refcount GC < 1235260577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah no shit < 1235260579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this < 1235260604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I read some article by jwz complaining about current GCs, but he didn't explain what a good one actually was < 1235260615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jews are like that < 1235260620 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always complaining about gc < 1235260621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ? < 1235260624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwz = jews. < 1235260625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1235260627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pronounciation < 1235260629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235260631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235260635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I didn't mean that < 1235260643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well when did you mean it? < 1235260644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I recall around jan 08 you said that all gcs suck, and you should do it the "proper way" (malloc/free) < 1235260646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean jwz as in the well known programmer jwz < 1235260651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you were basing this entirely on experience with java < 1235260656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, worked at netscape < 1235260657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the channel had quite a laugh... < 1235260667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop ruining his pun : < 1235260669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235260681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I still think bohem-gc isn't a very good GC, but I'm interested in seeing a good one < 1235260693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a look at the sbcl gc, cheney on the mta, Factor's gc < 1235260696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because bohem-gc managed to cause memory corruption < 1235260698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares as long as it's asymptotically optimal :o < 1235260702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok I will < 1235260712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: boehm has issues because it's in C < 1235260723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bohemes never got rid of their garbage < 1235260730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably enjoy making a theoretical os for a turing machine more than an actual os. < 1235260730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes indeed. So why is the Python GC even worse < 1235260731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only have conservative gc < 1235260735 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1235260735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be pretty cool < 1235260737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: python is just not a very good impl < 1235260742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, perl GC? < 1235260746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1235260747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but imagine using your OS 4eva < 1235260749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: those are just refcounting < 1235260750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't someone replace them < 1235260751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting is shite < 1235260752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope i'm as crazy as i am now when i grow up and know all kindsa awesome shit. < 1235260755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because nobody cares enough < 1235260776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I agree. So what I want is an introduction to GOOD GCs. < 1235260789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who would write such things are busy making money off language impls :P < 1235260789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well my dream is to make the perfect os, and use it alone because no one else is willing to start over :D < 1235260797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also because i'm not going to advertise it)