00:00:01 ehird, yes, the world is fail 00:00:01 oklopol: my dream is to make a modern lisp machine 00:00:02 (damn that'd be cool :D) 00:00:06 and use my OS on it 00:00:12 my own freaking hardware RUNNING LISP. 00:00:17 ehird, price? 00:00:29 AnMaster: well, fabricating silicon costs millions :p 00:00:34 so I'd sell it for millions! 00:00:39 hah 00:00:46 oerjan: you're back? either i missed that, or i imagined your departure. 00:00:55 he came back like 30m ago 00:01:04 oklopol, he isn't here 00:01:07 don't be silly 00:01:11 oh 00:01:21 oklopol, maybe you need to visit a doctor if you are imagining things? 00:01:28 okay, guess there's no use seeing what he answered to my message then. 00:01:46 that may be for the best. 00:01:51 oklopol, there was no message. The message was a lie. 00:01:54 oklopol do you have a 64 bit cpu 00:01:56 well i like lies 00:01:59 ehird: no 00:02:02 I do! 00:02:04 at least i don't think so... 00:02:10 AnMaster: also, it was chocolate 00:02:12 and I know ehird has too 00:02:12 okay my OS will support 32-bit then so you can use it :-P 00:02:23 oerjan, the message was a chocolate? 00:02:25 eh? 00:02:28 i was planning only to support x86_64 00:02:32 and have no 32-bit compatibility mode. 00:02:33 chocolate messages are the best 00:02:42 oerjan, you are right 00:03:35 the window dec & shadow of this kde looks like vista on unfocused windows 00:03:40 well 00:03:42 just the shadow 00:03:44 i notice the weirdest things. 00:03:53 ehird, err 00:03:57 change KDE theme? 00:04:12 ehird, possibly extra themes may be a separate package 00:04:16 they are for KDE 3 iirc 00:04:18 no, it looks nice 00:04:20 :P 00:04:34 the shadow just vaguely looks like vista under certain conditions 00:04:36 ehird, "looks like vista" "it looks nice" 00:04:38 fail 00:04:44 "shadow looks like vista" 00:04:49 also, vista isn't too ugly. 00:04:51 it beats xp. 00:04:56 and gnome. 00:05:10 ehird, win2000 beats all of them 00:05:12 fact 00:05:16 win2000 is fugly 00:05:26 ehird, Mac OS 7 beats win2000 00:05:32 cp/m ftw 00:05:38 ehird, nah 00:05:46 SYMBOLICS GENERA FTW 00:05:49 ^ and I mean it 00:05:56 yes of course 00:06:08 i so want to splash out $3500 on a lisp machine :-( 00:06:16 well, + plane fee to avoid absurd shipping costs 00:06:22 ehird: yay thank you. except now i need to use it. 00:06:28 oklopol: ??? 00:06:35 water color painting beats them all! 00:06:42 "so oklo, i wrote these 30000 lines of compatibility code for your 32-bit" 00:06:43 ehird, wow: http://symbolics.com/ 00:06:52 "wanna try the os?" 00:06:54 AnMaster: what about it? 00:07:01 ehird, you can still get it :) 00:07:04 sure 00:07:07 they're not making any new ones 00:07:19 it's just a lifeless shell of a company 00:07:23 ehird, true 00:07:24 but they'll still give you a lisp machine on request 00:07:36 ehird, really? they have some left in stock? 00:07:39 and what do they cost 00:07:53 $3500 for the top of the line one 00:07:58 + insanely high shipping costs 00:08:01 ehird, which is outdated yes 00:08:05 second 00:08:09 finding the price list 00:08:11 but question is, do they make new ones 00:08:15 absolutely not 00:08:19 I don't think they have since the 80s 00:08:21 or just sell out what is left of stock? 00:08:26 which isn't going fast? 00:08:29 yep 00:08:50 AnMaster: http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt 00:08:52 full price lists 00:09:09 * AnMaster looks 00:09:10 the macivory stuff is a modified mac + lisp card 00:09:13 less pure but cheaper 00:09:24 you'd either want the XL120{0,1} or the 36xx 00:09:28 hah 00:09:33 the latter is $675 00:09:41 which is surprisingly cheap 00:09:43 like, really 00:09:51 hehe 00:10:04 that david k schmidt guy commented on an opengenera piratebay torrent 00:10:12 read and lol: 00:10:30 dkschmidt at 2007-08-15 02:24 CET: 00:10:31 Congratulations on downloading the finest software development environment ever created. If you want to find out more about Genera or would like to have a Symbolics Lisp Machine, check out the Symbolics website at www.symbolics.com or contact sales@symbolics.com. 00:10:45 hmm 00:11:00 can i go now? 00:11:11 NO. 00:11:26 certainly you can. whether you may is a different matter. 00:11:32 ehird, oh where can I get opengenera? 00:11:36 and where can I use it 00:11:53 like do I need an ALPHA emulator or such? 00:11:57 lemme find the bloggers post for you 00:12:03 AnMaster: http://collison.ie/blog/2008/04/lisp-machines 00:12:09 unless you have accidentally got stuck on something, i guess. 00:12:18 AnMaster: you need a separate lunix 00:12:20 install 00:12:28 lunix? 00:12:29 because genera writes over /etc/hosts 00:12:30 and similar 00:12:32 AnMaster: linux :P 00:12:32 or even if you did it on purpose. 00:12:35 ah 00:12:43 ehird, well I could have it in a chroot yes 00:12:53 oerjan: but will i? 00:13:06 and most importantly, should i 00:13:07 oklopol: do i look like an oracle? 00:13:13 well 00:13:17 yes 00:13:18 ehird, torrent still live? 00:13:31 yep 00:13:33 well 00:13:36 quite slow last time I ran it 00:13:37 but live 00:13:44 tpb is currently in court 00:13:55 the court is currently saying "yeah, go away prosecutors" 00:13:57 do I dare use it atm? Probably not 00:13:59 i see. but not the future, alas. 00:14:02 because their arguments are ridiculous 00:14:06 AnMaster: they're not suing the users 00:14:07 just the operators 00:14:17 ehird, well who knows what will happen in the future 00:14:17 also 00:14:25 last I looked it wasn't like that 00:14:26 :/ 00:14:30 oerjan => oreajn => oraejn => (rotate n into a c) oraejc => oracej => (straighten j and reverse the end) oracle 00:14:47 AnMaster: the only thing in the logs will be you hitting TPB tracker 00:14:50 since the rest is totally distributed 00:14:55 isn't that where you got your nick? 00:15:01 nope 00:15:02 and hitting a bittorrent tracker URL is hardly illegal 00:15:19 oerjan: oh, sorry, my mistake, i guess i'll have to listen to ehird then. 00:15:21 unless you live in oceania 00:15:26 ehird, err 00:15:29 error from tracker 00:15:30 wth 00:15:35 now that is odd 00:15:35 "invalid response from tracker" 00:15:36 what error? 00:15:38 hm. 00:15:39 so i guess i'm stuck here forever. 00:15:41 give it a few minutes 00:15:44 ehird, ktorrent 00:15:47 oklopol: beware of lying oracles. 00:15:50 maybe I should try some other one 00:15:52 should work in a bit 00:16:07 ehird, wonder what it means 00:16:11 invalid in what way 00:16:16 servers are having a booboo? 00:16:24 oerjan: would an oracle lie just to be able to hint he did with a metaphor? 00:16:28 if you live in oceania, knowing that bittorrent trackers exist is illegal. 00:16:37 ehird, as in timed out, error message, corrupt data, or what? 00:16:42 AnMaster: who knows 00:17:04 oklopol: quite possibly 00:17:26 ehird, btw who is that "dkschmidt"? 00:17:32 oerjan: damn i was hoping for a metaphor :P 00:18:13 hmm. maybe i'll sleep anyway. play by my own rules. 00:18:14 -> 00:18:16 wth 00:18:17 AnMaster: symbolics salesman 00:18:19 same guy on symbolics.com 00:18:23 and at the end of that price list 00:18:26 ah 00:18:35 ehird, in other words he doesn't care very much 00:18:44 most likely 00:18:51 even if he really cares, he's taking advantage of the situation :P 00:19:09 seems like timeout 00:19:36 oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_proof_system 00:20:09 udp://tracker.thepiratebay.org:80/announce == dead 00:20:39 oh 00:20:41 AnMaster: replace it with http 00:20:42 ipv6 fail 00:20:45 oh 00:20:53 ehird, I suspect 00:21:20 or not 00:21:23 non-ipv6 fail 00:21:31 it responds to ping6 but not ping 00:21:32 wth 00:22:40 maybe ktorrent can't handle ipv6 00:22:40 or 00:22:45 maybe my firewall fails 00:24:53 holy fuck emacs fonts are huge 00:25:16 ehird, change the terminal font then 00:25:23 or using it in X mode? 00:25:24 gtk emacs :P 00:25:27 then change the emacs font 00:25:30 somewhere 00:25:34 yeah it's just dpi problems 00:37:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MandelbrotOrbitInfimum.png omg ew ugly 00:40:43 ehird, torrent still broken 00:40:45 will try again later 00:40:53 i have the file 00:40:56 so I can dcc it 00:40:59 hm ok 00:41:05 well let me check if dcc is setup 00:42:18 ehird, try to dcc it now. hopefully it will work 00:42:23 more proof that the mandelbrot set is really a Great Old One... 00:42:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MandelbrotOrbitInfimum.png omg ew ugly <-- nice 00:42:46 uglyyyyyyyy 00:42:47 it makes me want to vomit 00:42:55 file:///media/Macintosh HD/Users/ehird/Saved/2009-02/opengenera/opengenera2.tar.bz2 00:42:57 hmm. 00:42:58 fail. 00:43:02 ehird, well I would have used another colour scheme 00:43:17 blue instead of pink 00:43:21 but apart from that: nice 00:43:34 the belly button X_X 00:43:39 AnMaster: yo I dcc'd 00:43:52 err 00:43:55 no? 00:44:01 very yes 00:44:05 agh, I guess firewall 00:44:06 * ehird filebins it 00:44:10 ehird, maybe my bnc fails? 00:44:14 or your bnc 00:44:19 router 00:44:20 probably 00:44:23 it's shit 00:44:33 want a linksys pronto... 00:45:13 <*status> DCC Xfer Bounce (ehird): Timeout waiting for incoming connection [192.168.0.64:60386] 00:45:15 yes indeed 00:45:23 not sure what that means 00:45:27 " Must be less than 50 megabytes" 00:45:28 fuck. 00:45:34 ehird, says who? 00:45:54 specs? 00:46:38 filebin.ca 00:47:10 k 00:47:17 * AnMaster waits for url 00:47:22 " Must be less than 50 megabytes" 00:47:23 IC an't use it 00:47:27 ah 00:52:35 ehird, oh I see 00:52:40 look at the ip you sent 00:52:44 in the above dcc error 00:52:48 hah 00:52:50 that is the issue 00:52:56 wait 00:52:56 no 00:53:01 that is my ip 00:53:05 ehird, something is up anyway 00:53:14 oh and the torrent seems to work in rtorrent 00:53:19 maybe because it uses ipv6 00:53:27 so no need for your help it seems :) 00:53:29 thanks anyway 00:57:30 AnMaster: Boggle yer mind: 00:57:32 >>> def two(): return 1. + (two()/2.) 00:57:34 ... 00:57:35 >>> two = recur_default(two, 10, 0) 00:57:37 >>> two_ = use_rd(two) 00:57:38 >>> two_() 00:57:40 1.9990234375 00:57:41 python? 00:57:41 Also oklopol's mind. 00:57:45 yep. 00:57:49 Finite infinite recursion! 00:58:01 ehhah 00:58:03 hehe* 00:58:17 ehird, nice but what about about it 00:58:26 also is that python 2.x? 00:58:31 * AnMaster really likes python 3 00:58:33 works in both 00:58:39 ah 00:58:40 AnMaster: well, can't you see? I wrote a function that calls itself infinite times 00:58:45 then approximated its value 00:58:54 ehird, what is recur_default()? 00:59:01 My secret sauce. 00:59:09 ehird, where is it defined? 00:59:15 and what does it look like 00:59:22 recur_default.py 00:59:26 :P 00:59:36 ehird, not making it public yet? 00:59:44 tell me when you will make it public 00:59:48 in a min 00:59:51 since I'm going to be in 5 minutes 01:00:43 just need to iron out some creases 01:02:58 specifically, a nicer call interface 01:03:17 ehird, does this work for any infinite series? 01:03:24 any infinite recursion 01:03:25 defined in recursive form 01:03:28 hm ok 01:03:40 ehird, using much black magic? 01:03:48 AnMaster: it basically just checks the callstack 01:03:50 to see if you recurse 01:03:56 if we've already recursed N times, return the default value 01:03:58 interesting 01:07:34 ehird, pure python or using the C API? 01:07:43 doing this with C API sounds trivial 01:07:51 pure python 01:07:52 sys._getframe() 01:08:03 there is even stuff in the C API to detect if you recursed 01:08:37 ehird, hm how do you insert yourself in the call 01:08:38 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:08:53 I mean you need to replace the two() call with some custom routine 01:09:02 decorators 01:09:03 that checks the recursion 01:09:03 >>> [two(limit=i) for i in range(0,10)] 01:09:05 [1.0, 1.5, 1.75, 1.875, 1.9375, 1.96875, 1.984375, 1.9921875,1.99609375, 1.998046875] 01:09:11 hm I see 01:09:24 AnMaster: the code + example: http://pastie.org/396402 01:09:25 err 01:09:28 @@recur_default should be @recur_default 01:09:50 kwargs? 01:09:52 btw, two() reaches 2.0 on my system at 53 01:09:54 what does that name mean 01:09:55 AnMaster: like foo=bar 01:09:57 keyword arguments 01:10:00 ah 01:10:01 right 01:10:11 **kwargs? 01:10:17 looks like C to me ;P 01:10:58 ehird, hm ok 01:11:05 I need to read that when less sleepy 01:11:20 hmm 01:11:25 change > new_func.limit to >= new_func.limit 01:11:28 bye -> 01:11:34 ehird, night too 01:47:19 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:08:50 B;eh 02:08:52 "Note from Dr. ██████████: I believe I know where all our bandwidth is going at night. Agent ████'s computer privileges should be limited until he either finds a girlfriend or learns some self control." 02:09:13 They're describing material on floppy disks of infinite capacity 02:09:21 Why are they talking about bandwidth? 02:09:26 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-335 02:23:37 right, pizza-time, if they are still open at 02:22 am 02:25:29 * oerjan recalls this place that used to be open until 4 am in weekends. don't know if they still are. 02:35:54 excellent 02:36:17 like the instant computation machine that you have to keep plugged in for as long as the computation would take 02:36:27 a floppy disk of infinite capacity 02:36:57 in the category of a seemingly small flaw making the thing useless 02:37:23 --speed. 02:38:57 hm but if it could be pre-initialized it could at least be used to solve NP-complete problems 02:40:56 i guess you would need the instant computation machine for that, though 02:50:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:06:24 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 03:24:44 Wait, by "instant computation machine", are you talking about my idea, or some SCP, or somethign else? 03:27:33 don't ask me, as comex 03:27:35 *ask 03:27:49 * oerjan spanks his keyboard 03:32:06 I think it was your and ehird's 03:33:03 that time travel thing? 03:40:14 * Sgeo loves http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/incident-239-b-clef-kondraki and would love it more if he was looking into the individual SCPs, probably 03:47:15 * Sgeo seriously lols at http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/supplemental-report-239-b-192 04:17:02 right, after that distraction, really going for pizza 04:27:24 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/experiment-log-447-a 05:30:10 -!- Blasterfire has joined. 05:51:20 -!- Blasterfire has left (?). 06:08:58 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/catastrophile2.png 06:19:42 i don't get it 06:20:27 GregorR has boners for dead babies 06:21:54 Context is for the weak. 06:22:14 * oerjan notes that the truck is disturbing all by itself 06:23:02 also, that catastrophile1.png is nonexistent 06:23:22 That's because it's catastrophile.png 06:23:28 ah 06:23:50 why then does the error message say "moved or deleted". hmph. 06:24:30 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a379/GregorRichards/catastrophile.png 06:24:32 E_WORKSFORME 06:24:47 with 1, duh 06:25:04 if it never existed, that is. 06:25:14 Ohhh, I see :P 06:25:17 * oerjan notes that the truck is disturbing all by itself 06:25:18 ooh, that scp-wiki is awesome 06:25:20 Thanks for that X-D 06:25:23 I enjoyed that truck. 06:25:39 also, i have no idea what that thing on the stairs is 06:26:40 which might explain why you didn't link it first. unless you have. 06:27:18 I linked catastrophile2.png first because I thought it was funnier :P 06:27:21 Those are body parts 06:27:48 ic. maybe. 06:46:31 http://spamusement.com/forums/images/avatars/173094260849a0f4a14b025.gif 06:46:33 :) 06:53:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:00:26 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 07:03:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:16:14 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-360 :) 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:28:54 GregorR: is it okay i was desperately waiting for that gif truck to crash? 08:30:10 oh it crashes in the other 08:36:11 oko 08:43:38 okokokokokokoko 08:43:40 okokokokokokoko 08:43:45 okokokokokokokokokokoko 08:43:55 do you like numbers? 08:44:37 yes? 08:46:40 i see 08:47:03 i'm being mauled. 08:47:14 by a wolf 08:47:39 cute 08:47:55 but not as cute as your precious numbers huh 08:48:43 possibly cuter! 08:56:55 pussy blot icer 09:46:19 -!- kar8nga has joined. 10:12:47 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:14:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:19:00 -!- Mony has joined. 11:27:14 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:16:55 -!- Corun has joined. 12:28:23 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:28:35 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:24:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:37:30 ais523, hi 13:37:40 btw how do you write hexdecimal integers in scheme? 13:37:45 I don't know 13:37:56 ah 13:38:08 in or out? 13:38:51 oklopol, as in (define foo 0x123) 13:39:01 but that doesn't do what I wanted 13:39:03 if you mean having hex in the code, there's a whole well-written section about the numbers in r5rs. 13:39:15 yeah it's not like that 13:39:22 hmm... is it 16#123, or have I got the wrong language there? 13:39:22 k will look 13:39:26 try 123h, 123x, x123, h123 13:39:29 ais523, that sounds erlang 13:39:32 ah, maybe 13:39:49 ais523, which means it may be prolog too I gueszs 13:39:51 guess* 13:39:58 gah cold fnigers 13:40:00 ... 13:40:01 fingers* 13:40:06 i recall b was used for binary, but i haven't really used numbers in scheme. 13:40:57 oklopol, h prefix/suffix both says unbound variables 13:41:01 variable* 13:41:03 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:41:19 so does b and x 13:41:50 in both mzscheme and guile 13:43:22 hmm. 13:43:29 then i've probably imagined it all. 13:44:38 ah #x 13:49:26 (string->number "100" 16) 13:49:26 = 13:49:26 ? 13:49:26 well that's for output 13:49:26 indeed 13:49:26 err 13:49:26 err 13:49:26 input 13:49:26 sorry misread 13:49:26 yeah that works 13:49:26 but #x123 13:49:26 # is used for all the stuff you can specify about a number 13:49:26 oklopol, so what about other bases? like base 14? 13:49:26 you can't do that in a literal 13:49:26 also you can't do floating point in anything but decimal in scheme either iirc 13:49:26 > #h101 13:49:26 readline::81: read: expected `a' or `x' after #h 13:49:26 mhm 13:49:26 * AnMaster wonders what that is then 13:49:26 yeah stuff that isn't legal scheme often errors out 13:49:26 oklopol, duh yes 13:49:26 but what is #ha supposed to me 13:49:26 be* 13:49:26 #h is not specified by the standard 13:49:26 mzscheme extension then 13:49:26 > #hx101 13:49:26 101 13:49:26 mhm 13:49:26 lol :D 13:49:49 oklopol, too lazy to search docs for what it does 13:51:10 err 13:51:10 grammar fail 13:51:10 what what does? 13:51:10 oklopol, too lazy to search mzscheme docs for what #hx/#ha means 13:51:10 why would you care? 13:53:48 well now I care 13:54:10 #hx starts a Honu expression; see Honu Parsing 13:54:10 #hash starts a hash table; see Reading Hash Tables 13:54:11 hm 13:54:41 wth 13:54:44 "Honu is a family of languages built on top of Scheme. Honu syntax resembles Java." 13:58:50 :D 14:01:05 ais523, which is the correct way to express "foo mmap()s blah blah" should one use "mmap()s" or "mmaps()"? Or maybe just "mmaps"? 14:02:45 I'd say mmap()s 14:02:51 ok 14:02:55 thanks 14:03:03 ais523, would it be "abort()'d" too? 14:03:11 it's probably not correct English, but amongst programmers the habit is to write anything that has to be written literally literally 14:03:14 and no, abort()ed 14:03:21 also if you wish to refer to man page section, would you use: mmap(2)s ? 14:03:36 I don't really think pluralising a man page makes sense 14:03:49 ais523, hm it is a verb isn't it? 14:03:51 i always separate suffices with "'" 14:03:53 in this case 14:04:12 unless they are actual grammatical suffices 14:04:13 someprogram mmap(2)s blah blah 14:04:18 well, ok 14:04:33 hm 14:08:00 someprogram cu me zoi py. mmap(2) py. 14:08:17 oklopol, eh.. Finnish? 14:08:27 not at all 14:08:29 err spelling 14:08:48 anyway mmap() makes no sense in python, and you mentioned py twice on that line 14:10:05 didn't mean python 14:14:06 heh 14:20:17 xD 14:20:23 i just realized something 14:20:43 i've probably been feeling sick all weekend *because i'm sick* :D 14:21:03 why is that a :D? 14:21:25 because i didn't realize it. 14:22:47 i mean think about it 14:23:25 i feel like shit, and never for a minute stop to think why, i just quickly adapt myself to the situation and start doing things a bit differently, being under a blancket 24/7 etc 14:23:31 but i don't actually realize anything is wrong. 14:23:34 i'm like a cavemen. 14:23:35 *man 14:24:09 anyway should probably go to the shop, coke probably helps for flues. 14:27:16 ais523: the actual sickness isn't a ":D" or a ":(", because it's not bad enough anyway to actually hinder my studyings. i just find it funny how well i can ignore everything around me, including my body. 14:28:26 (also that "including my body" thing i said that way just so you could ask whether i actually don't consider my body a part of myself; i'm not sure why i assumed you would) 14:28:51 your body may be a part of you the person 14:28:57 it's nothing to do with oklopol the nick, though 14:29:04 I only talk to your thoughts over IRC 14:29:09 not the things that surround them 14:29:23 maybe you just talk to my fingers tho. 14:29:31 it's not like i actually actively control thhem 14:29:32 *them 14:29:38 i just let them live on the kb 14:29:41 I assume your fingers aren't intelligent enough to make sense without your brain sending them information somehow 14:30:14 well i do admit what i type does go through my brain, but i honestly cannot say which way the information goes. 14:30:50 i mean through introspection, i do know enough anatomy to assume it's brain->hands. but you never know 14:31:17 (err through introspection was part of the earlier sentence, then a full stop before "i do know...") 14:31:28 (nm i should probably do that shoppery) 14:32:25 -> 14:34:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:01:10 hihi 15:01:52 05:38:51 oklopol, as in (define foo 0x123) 15:01:54 #x 15:01:56 #x123 15:02:01 yeah i told him 15:02:06 hie hird 15:02:19 oklopol: yeah I should have told him to read r5rs 15:02:23 it's only like 30 pages 15:02:27 ais523: hi 15:02:34 overall linux summary: better than before, but still not impressed. 15:03:06 also, don't use guile 15:03:07 did you get it working? 15:03:08 it's not scheme 15:03:11 seriously, i'm sick, this is so weird 15:03:12 ais523: yes, I'm talking via it now 15:03:25 did you get your wireless mouse/keyboard working? 15:03:58 Yes, although it's stupid and forgets it on every bootup so I have to manually connect with a USB keyboard. 15:04:31 ehird, strange 15:04:44 I think your beliefs about Linux are about right, decent but not actually good, and getting better all the time 15:04:46 is there no config file or such? 15:05:04 it's certainly good enough for me to use as the basis of my primary OS, I think your standards are higher than mine though 15:05:20 It's english-decent but not ehird-decent, I have a weird tounge. 15:05:21 ais523, btw I never had issues like those ehird had under linux. What I have had issues with is ATI and way way back a winmodem 15:05:23 AnMaster: yes, it's utterly ignored 15:05:32 ehird, heh 15:05:48 ais523: font rendering sucks badly 15:06:02 I like the font rendering, actually 15:06:07 ehird, however I still don't see why anything but kernel upgrade would need reboot 15:06:08 but we're probably looking for different things in it 15:06:17 like quicktime, is it in kernel or what? 15:06:17 AnMaster: turning off your laptop to take it home? 15:06:33 that's by far the most common reason I reboot mine 15:06:35 AnMaster: like 99% of apps, including the window manager etc, heavily use quicktime 15:06:38 ais523, I was talking about upgrades, of course there could be reasons like you need to move or such 15:06:39 so you hvae to restart them all anyway 15:06:44 or hardware upgrade 15:06:56 ais523: it's either too weedy, or so bulky you can see the oddly coloured subpixels 15:07:11 right now I have subpixel rendering off, and hinting=slight 15:07:17 it is barable 15:07:20 *bear-able 15:07:30 ehird: ah, does your screen resolution match your screen's actual resolution? 15:07:44 I'm using subpixel over here, and can't see the oddly coloured pixels 15:07:45 ehird, 99.999% of the apps on my system are dynamically linked to glibc, exceptions are probably only: busybox (static), valgrind (own libc) and ldconfig (static) 15:07:47 oh come on, don't ask trivial things like that 15:07:50 of course it does 15:07:53 ais523: so you have high hinting 15:07:54 right? 15:07:55 yet I upgraded glibc from 2.6 to 2.8 with KDE running 15:07:58 haven't rebooted yet 15:08:01 * ais523 checks 15:08:12 works fine, had to rebuild valgrind and gdb but that was it 15:08:13 AnMaster: yeah generally when you upgrade the intention is to USE THE UPGRADED THING 15:08:18 maybe wacky linux people don't understand that notion 15:08:24 ehird, yes I do use it for like 50% of the apps by now 15:08:33 like half of the KDE apps 15:08:34 subpixel with full hinting 15:08:42 AnMaster: and OS X reboots fast enough that you could use 100% of them in about 15 seconds 15:08:51 ais523: go to en.wikipedia.org 15:08:54 isn't the text horribly thin? 15:08:57 and klunked together 15:08:59 that was my problem 15:08:59 ehird: using which browser? 15:09:01 and which font? 15:09:10 Konqueror, and the default 15:09:20 by the way, does Konversation show as kde3 for you? 15:09:31 yes, there isn't a kde4 version yet 15:09:32 ehird, hm that depends, I have seen macs that take 2 minutes from sleep mode, though it was one that was set up to sync against some server at work. 15:09:37 so it's not surprising they shipped the kde3 version 15:09:49 AnMaster: "Example involving nothing to do with the actual reboot, this means the reboot is slow" 15:09:51 convincing 15:10:00 ehird, reboot takes like 10 minutes on it 15:10:13 wow, you can make a system take ages to run if you do stupid shit that takes time! 15:10:17 ehird: actually, around 1 minute to login screen, then 9 minutes after you hit login 15:10:19 you've convinced me. os x sucks 15:10:23 ehird: you're right, konqueror seems to screw up the kerning on wikipedia main page 15:10:24 no 15:10:29 I don't say OS X sucks 15:10:30 ais523: all subsequent pages, too 15:10:30 firefox manages it fine, though 15:10:42 let me try with Arora 15:10:42 ehird, what I'm saying is that it depends on what you are doing. 15:10:49 I suspect it's something to do with different defaults, rather than an intrinsic difference between the browsers 15:10:58 or possibly GTK vs. Qt, but I think that's less likely 15:11:12 AnMaster: your example is at best far out enough to be completely irrelevant; at worst having no relation whatsoever to the situation 15:11:16 ehird, anyway I have a linux computer that boots in 16 seconds from you press the button, a Pentium 3 with 512 MB RAM 15:11:20 huh, I lost like 10 options from system settings 15:11:24 how did that happen 15:11:26 what do you mean lost? 15:11:31 they're not there in the oerview 15:11:33 I may be imagining things 15:11:43 ais523: what font dpi are you using? 15:11:45 also, screenshot? 15:11:50 of what? 15:11:53 the text rendering 15:12:00 ehird, I have seen that on mac actually.. iirc bluetooth was suddenly gone from mouse settings... 15:12:02 which set of rendering? 15:12:05 I'm back on Gnome atm, btw 15:12:10 oh. 15:12:11 ehird, reboot fixed it 15:12:15 gnome renders fonts differently. 15:12:23 but I've set my default font to Sans 10 15:12:28 ehird, gnome and kde use separate setting panels yes 15:12:32 -_- 15:12:33 err 15:12:34 and most of the apps here are using that 15:12:35 that is not what I said 15:12:36 wow 15:12:38 that was highly irrelevant 15:12:42 oh 15:12:42 ? 15:12:51 AnMaster: it's me who's using Gnome 15:12:52 then I misunderstood you 15:12:54 ah 15:13:07 so unless ehird's remote-desktoped into my computer, then he wouldn't care what's in my settings panel, probably 15:13:15 and wouldn't be able to see it in any case without a screenshot 15:13:17 if you see some ambiguity in what I'm saying and nobody else seems to, you porbably read it wrong 15:13:21 and certainly wouldn't think it was his 15:13:22 *probably 15:13:32 ais523: i'm actually behind you. 15:13:46 no you aren't 15:13:55 I'm also invisible 15:14:02 there's no sane way you could have got through the Door 15:14:08 I am not sane 15:14:13 -!- Dewio has joined. 15:18:38 ehird, did you manage to get the fonts to look good? 15:18:42 AnMaster: Not yet. 15:18:45 mhm 15:18:50 ais523: I was going to complain about something else. Let me think what it was... 15:19:02 (BTW, a screenshot of the font rendering would be appreciated, I'm thinking I've missed some combination of settings) 15:19:09 well, fonts are a legitimate complaint for someone who cares as much about fonts as you do 15:19:13 btw, for me wikipedia main page doesn't look bad in konq (KDE 3.5.9) 15:19:15 and I'm not sure what to screenshot 15:19:23 AnMaster: does it mess up the kerning? 15:19:34 ais523: an application? system prefs? 15:19:42 ais523, not really, it uses Bitstream Verra Sans though 15:19:50 ehird: in Gnome the system prefs are just choosing font and size 15:19:57 it's gnome, would you expect it to have settings? 15:20:01 er, there's an antialiasing setting too 15:20:06 ais523: I meant KDE system preferences, anyway 15:20:07 oh, yes 15:20:15 as for KDE settings, I'd have to boot into KDE and I mustn't here 15:20:27 err, you just have to run the settings app 15:20:29 no? 15:20:32 there's a strange bug with volume which means it blares out the logon sound at full volume even when the speakers are set to low volume or muting 15:20:47 ais523, huh, I never seen that 15:20:51 why would you have to boot into KDE? 15:20:55 ah, yes 15:21:05 well, the KDE system settings window messes up fonts for me 15:21:06 ais523, idea: turn off the login sound in KDE settings 15:21:09 should be possible 15:21:17 ehird: btw, if you're interested, the SVN version of Konversation uses Qt4 (you mentioned something about it a few minutes ago) 15:21:19 at least it is on KDE 3.x 15:21:26 BeholdMyGlory: is it semi -stable? 15:21:29 "system notifications" I think 15:21:55 ais523: apeparance->fonts, by the way, 15:22:02 yes, found it 15:22:06 mm 15:22:12 ehird: yup, I'm using it right now, haven't found any problem except for a minor graphical bug that you probably wont even encounter 15:22:38 ehird, btw xchat is way better than xchat aqua I heard 15:22:38 BeholdMyGlory: have you reported it? 15:22:50 AnMaster: it is, but it still sucks 15:23:11 ehird, what about conspire then? It is a fork of xchat, I heard it was way better 15:23:29 haven't tried it myself though 15:23:39 aaaaaagh!! Stop trying to get me to use xchat! wtf man! 15:23:51 sorry 15:23:58 ehird, should I try to get you to use ERC instead ;P 15:24:00 ais523: no, I haven't. maybe I should? but then again, the porting is in progress, they probably just haven't gotten there yet 15:24:14 AnMaster: you just authorized your own death, fyi 15:24:21 hah 15:24:30 ais523: generally, bug reports aren't appreciated for pre-pre-pre-alpha code 15:24:33 BeholdMyGlory: I like to report bugs, or at least check if it's already known 15:24:36 ehird: ah, ok 15:24:38 are you sure? 15:24:39 yes 15:24:45 I've seen several projects explicitly state that 15:24:53 since they almost certainly know about the issue already 15:25:01 well, they should put it in the tracker then 15:25:02 and are busy with other things 15:25:20 certainly when I'm programming I appreciate bug reports even in pre-alphas 15:25:41 ehird, that actually varies. for example, yesterday a valgrind developer wanted me to try svn version instead of last release and also report any bugs I found in the experimental ptrcheck tool in it. 15:26:02 while it did fix one of the bugs I had in the release I found (and reported) several other ones :) 15:26:04 ais523: uploading a screenshot of awful text rendering on wikipedia with subpixel+full hinting 15:26:13 the window decoration text looks nice though 15:26:15 ehird: I've seen it too 15:26:18 filebin hates arora 15:26:23 ais523: you said firefox gets it fine 15:26:33 I'm not using konqueror 15:26:56 ehird, did you build freetype with BCI yet? 15:27:06 -!- Dewi has quit (Network is unreachable). 15:27:08 I'm not going to build my own freetype 15:27:22 well, it is the thing that will help 15:27:31 your screenshot with it was awful. 15:27:39 binary distros don't enable the BCI because Apple has a patent on it in US 15:27:44 so you've said 15:27:45 ehird, that is because my fonts sucks 15:27:54 I only have dejavu too 15:28:17 ehird, you could copy some from OS X and change the settings to use them 15:28:36 I'm trying to gague how well linux is doing, not how well linux is doing if I patch it to make it os x :p 15:28:38 can Linux use OS X fonts? 15:28:43 ais523: if you convert them. 15:28:48 ais523, you need to convert them first 15:28:51 they look ugly though 15:29:02 ehird, not if you use the BCI :P 15:29:18 ooh, I htink I struck gold with some settings 15:29:19 interesting, it seems they just ported D to the Mac 15:29:24 it is just that dejavu and such are optimised for non-BCI 15:29:26 ehird: which settings are those? 15:29:26 use subpixel rendering = RGB 15:29:28 hinting style = slight 15:29:38 ugh subpixel 15:29:46 AnMaster: why don't you like subpixel? 15:29:47 thank you AnMaster, I didn't ask for your opinion 15:29:52 ais523: D already works on os x, with gdc, but gdc is unmaintained and crap 15:29:53 ais523, coloured edges of fonts 15:29:55 dmd now works on it, too 15:29:59 AnMaster: err, you're meant to use a tft. 15:30:01 which specifically hides those. 15:30:10 that's the whole point of subpixel rendering 15:30:11 well, subpixel only makes sense on TFTs 15:30:13 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 15:30:21 ais523, I have a TFT. 15:30:24 as for the subpixel choices, only one of them is ever correct 15:30:26 you have a crap tft. 15:30:31 so if you pick the wrong one, you'll see coloured edges 15:30:32 or configured subpixel rendering badly. 15:31:26 logout login time ---> 15:32:34 I think there's one idiot developing KDE that ruins the whole thing 15:32:38 it prompts you if you want to move something to the trash. 15:32:41 I am not kidding. 15:33:05 ais523, I tried all the subpixel style options 15:33:11 all give coloured edges 15:33:21 what screen res are you using? 15:33:38 either your tft screen is crap, or you're using a crap subpixel implementation, or you had the wrong hinting settings or whatever 15:33:39 1400x1050, as for DPI I think it is 98 DPI or such 15:33:42 don't remember exactly 15:33:46 ehird: so does Windows, about that move-to-trash prompt 15:33:51 with good subpixel rendering it is impossible to see the colouring without zooming in 15:34:02 ais523: it's stupid! the whole point of a trash is to be able to undo deletes! 15:34:03 I think there's at least one KDEer who goes around copying Windows' bad ideas as well as their good ones 15:34:24 now what works well is: antialias, full hinting, no subpixel, exclude 0-7 pt 15:34:32 and with 1400x1050, as long as your screen res matches the screen's actual res, no way a normal human should be able to see the color fringes if you use the right pixel order 15:34:44 ais523: or, the implementation is crap 15:34:48 ais523, it is 20" btw 15:34:49 or, it's placebo like so many things 15:34:51 iirc 15:35:05 he tried it thinking he wouldn't like it, lo and behold... 15:35:31 * ehird installs ms core fonts 15:35:52 I'm actually thinking about uninstalling those, because openoffice keeps trying to use them by default 15:35:54 and I don't like them 15:36:10 I don't like them but dejavu sans is very ugly unless planned for 15:36:14 the web is killing my eyes 15:36:24 ais523: also, it's Qt that messes up kerning, I think 15:36:28 well, there are lots of other fonts in the list 15:36:30 as other browsers are doing it too 15:36:45 and Qt messing up kerning is consistent with my obligations, although I haven't seen enough to prove it 15:36:48 *observations 15:38:04 wow that was a crazy typo.. 15:38:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:38:36 ehird, what about kerning in firefox? 15:38:38 AnMaster: too much nomic 15:38:48 I don't really feel like installing firefox, but it'd probaly be fine. 15:38:57 firefox is gtk-based on Linux 15:39:11 ais523, yes and? 15:39:22 I use Gimp in KDE. Gimp is GTK based 15:39:31 joy, more irrelevance... 15:39:45 I found the comment that firefox is GTK based quite irrelevant too 15:39:54 AnMaster: well, the theory is that it's Qt that's messing up kerning 15:39:55 er, it really wasn't 15:40:07 and by implication, gtk apps won't 15:40:09 because they don't use qt 15:40:15 ais523, yes exactly, that is why I suggest you try something else. Also kerning isn't messed up in konq here 15:40:17 just like athena widget apps or SDL apps won't 15:40:19 maybe QT 3 is better? 15:40:23 graaaaaaaaah 15:40:30 AnMaster always has to inject "USE THIS OTHER APPLICATION" 15:40:34 "USE THIS VERSION THAT I PREFER" 15:40:42 or I use a different font, or I happen to use a freetype with BCI 15:40:45 AnMaster: well the whole point of this exercise was to evaluate how ready KDE 4.2 was for people like ehird to use as a main OS 15:40:51 ais523, ah I see 15:40:55 which is the point you're probably missing 15:41:04 ais523, indeed that changes the whole thing 15:41:09 I tried it for a while and went back to Gnome 15:41:18 I think it's usable for me as a main OS, but Gnome is more usable 15:41:21 * ehird carefully opens tiny hole in body to let out craziness to avoid explosion 15:41:38 ais523: don't make me download an ubuntu cd... :P 15:41:56 ehird: meh, it hasn't changed much recently 15:42:05 it's mostly been bugfixing and stealing good ideas from Mac OS X 15:42:20 ais523, I can't stand gnome, but I can't stand kde 4.x either, and yes I tried both, though not 4.2, but from what I seen in screenshots and release notes it is still way behind kde 3 15:42:23 did you know that Windows 7 has what's effectively the Dock, now, except probably implemented worse and with a different name? 15:42:26 yep 15:42:30 one day they'll all just license out os x from apple :P 15:43:35 point is that the BCI thing is quite similar to the way some binary distros (used to?) disable mp3 support in the included mediaplayer, because of patents 15:43:45 not sure if that is still the case 15:44:09 AnMaster: well in Ubuntu you have to download it separately IIRC 15:44:11 Hmm, I should take advantage of my freedom while I have it. Maybe I'll try some window manager. 15:44:17 ais523, heh 15:44:35 ehird, xmonad? xnomad? 15:44:47 xnomad is a ninja. it kills windows you don't need. 15:44:48 I was about to mention xmonad too 15:44:55 it's called the bsc. bullshit collector. 15:44:56 given that ehird made me install it 15:45:02 ais523: I've tried xmonad, guess I'll try it again 15:45:03 ehird, hehe 15:45:12 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=634447 15:45:13 AnMaster: HA! 15:45:17 BCI IS enabled in ubuntu. 15:45:17 it doesn't really suit the way I use windows, though 15:45:20 Since at least dec 2007. 15:45:44 ehird, last I heard it wasn't, but ok... So maybe try disabling it? 15:45:48 from another thread, since at least october 2006 15:45:50 AnMaster: how? 15:45:59 ehird, compile time option for freetype 15:46:13 AnMaster: this is a binary distro, messing with compile time options isn't what people normally do on those 15:46:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:46:14 lol 15:46:24 although Ubuntu handles source packages fine, people rarely use them 15:46:30 ais523, iirc even debian has this thing called "source packages" yes 15:46:46 XMONAD TYME -> 15:46:53 well, I have to install tons of crap first. 15:46:56 like ghc. 15:46:59 (xmonad depends on ghc.) 15:47:00 AnMaster: what do you mean "even debian" 15:47:11 ais523: he sees debian as a lowest common denominator. 15:47:15 how do you think Debian makes the binary packages in the first place? 15:47:21 ehird, no that is slackware 15:47:22 because, umm, I don't know, it's not source based? 15:47:23 ;P 15:47:36 ais523, yes of course, that was my point 15:47:37 ... 15:47:38 AnMaster: you have some fucked up distro ladder... 15:47:53 I don't think the biggest ubuntu fan would say slackware is the lowest distro 15:47:59 ehird, not a ladder, stairway to gentoo 15:48:12 kind of like the stairway to heaven? I'm happy being at the bottom on both. 15:48:13 please, I'm physically laughing out loud now 15:48:21 ehird, it was a horrible pun yes 15:48:26 ais523: you're way too amusable ;p 15:48:28 *:p 15:48:40 no, just confused 15:48:44 I missed the pun, I think 15:48:49 I don't think it was a pun 15:48:54 well, I still can spot it 15:48:56 I think he s/heaven/gentoo/ and called it a pun 15:48:56 *can't 15:49:09 ehird, well if it wasn't a pun, then what was it 15:49:18 that's what we're asking you? 15:49:21 AnMaster: it wasn't actually anything 15:49:25 I can't figure out what you were doing there at al 15:49:26 apart from a feeble attempt at humour 15:49:26 *all 15:49:39 this is why I'm so amused 15:49:44 ais523, intentionally making no sense 15:49:51 I wish I had that excuse 15:50:06 i'm actually really funny, you can tell because i'm not! 15:50:15 * ais523 laughs at ehird 15:50:25 i'll take that as a good thing 15:50:35 * AnMaster laughs at the act of laughing 15:59:50 yeah ehird is pretty ridiculous 16:00:07 and pizza is pretty good 16:00:48 oklopol: I thought you were a noodle fan/ 16:01:37 i'm not all that picky. 16:01:44 i like all that tastes incredibly good. 16:03:55 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:08:40 Subject: SPAM: ATM Machine ownership is unique. Try it. 16:08:51 spam emails just get stranger and stranger... 16:15:40 -!- dhjkd has joined. 16:15:51 1) other wms can't seem to read my keypresses 16:15:57 2) konversation crashes at startup 16:16:01 3) my fan is whirring quite a lot 16:16:10 this far <-- --> from jumping ship back to os x. 16:16:40 I don't mind you jumping ship 16:16:50 also, Dolphin is flashing randomly when I open it 16:17:07 and my fan seems to be whirring more and more 16:17:09 I think it's probably best for everyone to choose for themselves what OS is best for them, and it differs for different people 16:17:23 right now I'm concerned at wtf this is doing to my fan. 16:19:02 ais523: do you think plan9 will work with a usb keyboard / mouse yet? 16:19:08 who knows? 16:19:14 god. 16:19:19 and me 16:19:21 failing everything, connect up a serial cable and toggle the keypresses in yourself 16:19:26 Mony: what is the answer 16:19:30 42 16:19:37 ais523: good luck finding a serial cable port on this mac 16:19:59 hmm... this laptop probably doesn't have one either 16:20:08 pity, serial's by far the best simple connection for implementing by hand 16:20:28 ais523: there's not even a ps/2 port in here 16:20:29 if you're messing around with electronics, designing something serial-controlled's easier than the alternatives 16:20:44 my laptop has hardly any ports, though 16:20:56 ps/2, VGA, USB, modem, and Ethernet 16:20:59 hmm ... can grub boot from a cd without it being in the menu? 16:21:04 oh, and 1294 16:21:15 dhjkd: probably, it has loads of options 16:21:19 I don't like messing with them though 16:21:23 beh 16:26:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 16:29:57 O HAI GUYS 16:30:02 HI! 16:30:11 I am downloadering plan 9 16:36:17 the main problem with plan 9 is that everyone who uses it is a jerk. 16:36:51 dhjkd: you're just going to have to speed up your implementation of Plan10 16:36:57 Verily. 16:37:09 Hopefully it'll be so amazing that uriel dies of shock. 16:37:54 who's uriel? 16:38:18 The most obnoxious plan 9 user ever. 16:38:34 continually rants about how other systems are imorral and "disgusting" 16:38:51 maintains a site where he whines about everything from every market that isn't free to the abhorrent act of having kids 16:39:18 impossible to ignore to boot 16:39:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:39:42 wait, why can't you ignore him? 16:40:19 he's too ridiculously loud. 16:40:46 err... 16:40:54 in what forum is he talking to you? 16:41:17 he's all over the place. reddit, irc, ... 16:41:38 you can't ignore him on irc: he's so loud that all conversation ends revolving around him 16:41:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:41:45 and reddit has no killfiles. 16:42:40 k3b is making my disk drive perform a worrying whirr. 16:44:02 plan9 time, maybe -> 16:44:59 -!- dhjkd has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 16:52:43 -!- Corun has joined. 17:04:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:04:59 -!- Hiato has joined. 17:06:46 gah cold fnigers 17:06:54 i think we can believe in that. 17:07:20 oerjan, IWC 17:07:22 * AnMaster runs 17:08:38 "Resultater 1 - 10 av ca. 92 900 000 for fniger." 17:10:19 For fniger? Where's MY 92 900 000?! 17:10:28 "Resultater 1 - 10 av ca. 108 000 000 for finger." 17:10:32 wtf? 17:11:04 apparently people really _do_ spell that bad :D 17:11:38 Is a resultater something that resultates? 17:12:57 not really. 17:12:58 no that would clearly be "resultator" 17:13:07 resultat = en:result 17:13:30 (noun) 17:13:45 en:result (v) = no:resultere 17:14:05 Result isn't a verb :P 17:14:11 yes it is 17:14:25 Oh, yes it is ;P 17:14:28 That results in failure 17:14:38 oh you *were* serious 17:14:42 My attempt to classify the word "result" resulted in an improper classification. 17:14:43 good, was worried there for a sec 17:14:59 me too 17:15:22 do norwegian verbs really end in "ere", like Latin verbs often do? 17:15:31 Sorry, my mouth was watering because the healthy human baby truck was driving by. 17:15:35 So I wasn't thinking straight. 17:15:39 no, only those stolen from latin. 17:16:01 also, it's -ere even if latin has -[aei]re 17:16:06 GregorR: don't worry we all think homosexually every now and then. 17:16:23 oklopol: A) That would be pedastry, B) I'm thinking more about cannibalism. 17:16:25 especially when there's babies involved 17:16:28 similar to german 17:16:55 GregorR: why would it be pedastry? 17:17:14 * oerjan confesses that he considered making yesterday's quit message "I'll have a large one with extra fries" 17:17:24 Oh, I didn't put together what you were responding to X-P 17:17:27 what was the context? 17:17:28 * GregorR stabblecopter :P 17:17:33 GregorR: are you high or something? 17:17:39 Just tired :P 17:17:42 -!- mib_zv88py has joined. 17:17:51 hi person who is probably ehird 17:17:55 fuck. computers. 17:18:01 mib_zv88py: Hawt. 17:18:02 Plan8? 17:18:07 *9? 17:18:20 *10? 17:18:26 GregorR: i suggest sleeping, your status in my eyes is changing rapidly! 17:18:36 i can't get plan9 to recognize my keyboard, even if I use a usb one and boot through grub, which SHOULD be legacy-bios-emulating thus exposing it as a ps2 17:18:39 but ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no 17:18:49 I choose to go eat instead :P 17:19:03 from GregorR the powernerd to GregorR the village idiot 17:19:49 So, a friend of mine and I created card chess. 17:19:53 (Subject change!) 17:19:54 :D 17:19:58 -!- ehird has changed nick to ehird_. 17:20:00 like chesskers? 17:20:00 GregorR: erm, that's not really reassuring... 17:20:00 you and your crazy games 17:20:01 ghjkghjkhgkhgkhjkhjkhjkhjkghjhjkjhghjkhjkhjkhjkjhkghjghkhjkghjkhjkhggkhjkghjkhhkhkhgkhkhjkghjkky6y6y6y66666y6y6y6y6yy66yy575766 www5546 w456w546w546w546w546546 56 56 56 56 5 5 55 5 17:20:09 http://codu.org/wiki/?title=Card+Chess 17:20:11 ehird_: I don't understand 17:20:19 i used to do that all the time with my friends until i became totally isolated from them when uni started. 17:20:21 expressing my hate for computers. 17:20:56 (invent games, that is) 17:21:00 oklopol: oh dear :( 17:21:27 i wanna make a game solvable by computers only via ai or prime factoring 17:21:53 ehird_: you use computers a lot for someone who hates them as much as you do 17:22:01 I have to admit to actually liking computers 17:22:21 ais523: they have potential 17:22:28 but they're still rubbish. 17:22:57 god i hate plan9 users 17:22:59 On Thu Apr 17 17:19:06 EDT 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 17:23:00 > rEFIT fails me. Back to waiting. 17:23:02 you know, you could get a pc. 17:23:03 - erik 17:23:05 from google 17:23:06 yeah they should buy a pc just to try out plan9 17:23:09 jeez 17:25:00 actually plan9 _is_ a plot by evil aliens to take over the earth. fortunately they underestimated the stupidity of earthling computer users. 17:25:04 ais523: do you have a pc that can run plan9? I'm going to come and steal it 17:25:18 ehird_: probably, and good luck 17:25:21 why not just try in a VM/ 17:26:26 ais523: it's not he same. 17:26:29 it's slower 17:26:33 etc 17:26:34 half-speed 17:26:39 worse 17:26:46 and this is plan9 we're talking about, and modern hardware we're talking about 17:27:09 -!- mib_zv88py has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 17:27:23 http://www.modmyi.com/forums/chit-chat/19007-ron-paul-plan9-contest-real.html 17:27:27 Ron Paul pervades everything 17:27:32 ais523: I've tried it before. 17:28:02 oerjan: don't worry, just almost totally. 17:28:49 oklopol: whew 17:29:01 i have thi simac and an old Power Macintosh that runs os 8/9, but no pc. I am so stupid. :P 17:31:13 actually i have even made an acquaintance at uni, this dude started talking to me who was on half the courses i was on (which was pretty much all courses he was on naturally). 17:31:22 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 9 PM 17:34:16 :-< 17:38:33 so. 17:39:31 so hi oklopol. 17:39:47 hye 17:40:09 hay 17:41:08 oklopol: your OS willen be written in oklotalk right? i seem to remember you saying oklotalk was only oklotalk if it had the oklotalk os 17:42:26 it's pretty much built on oklotalk, although the systems version is slightly safer :) 17:42:56 oklopol: wait, oklotalk is _safer_ at the os level? 17:42:59 lol wat :D 17:43:02 i mean 17:43:44 safer than the version of oklotalk that's just oklotalk. the actual programming language oklotalk has a few "features" that don't really suit oses that well. 17:43:54 o 17:43:58 07.11.07:14:10:11 would be cool to get aroused by CA 17:44:03 :D 17:44:05 well it would! 17:44:16 completely out of context by the way 17:44:27 you don't need context for that 17:44:58 03:34:15 hm I just got a great idea for how to optimise brainfuck a bit better 17:45:00 03:34:29 probably someone already thought of it 17:45:01 03:35:22 my idea is, you can replace ++ and -- with set constant sometimes, for example if that cell have had a [-] on it just before and there have been no loops with unbalanced <> in it 17:45:06 I love anmaster's obvious "great ideas" 17:45:48 ehird_: you misread that idea, probably 17:45:53 it's more than the usual runlength stuff 17:45:55 but not by that much 17:45:56 I know 17:46:07 it's very obvious and most compilers worth their salt ever do it 17:46:42 04:52:27 this download is going slow 17:46:44 04:52:28 * tusho pokes it 17:46:45 04:53:15 yay 17:46:46 most compilers are probably peppered with such tricks 17:46:47 04:53:19 thanks for finishing download 17:46:48 04:53:19 <3 17:46:50 04:53:32 you are pretty awesome, finishing like that 17:46:51 04:57:04 hooray 17:46:53 a momentary channeling of oklopol. 17:47:11 :-p 17:47:24 * oklopol pats download 17:48:09 07.11.08:15:34:22 optimizations are rather cool, I mean unless they're arousing 17:48:13 you're weird oklopol. 17:48:35 it's the oklons in his brain that do it. 17:48:42 oklopol: why did you say that 17:48:45 i mean it doesn't make any sense. 17:50:31 i guess i wasn't trying to make sense 17:50:39 -!- FireFly has quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:50:44 oklopol: you didn't actually say that i fabricated that quote. 17:50:58 because I am a scoundrel. 17:51:16 i didn't say that? 17:51:25 nope. 17:51:29 oh. 17:51:32 well i remember it. 17:51:34 :D 17:51:36 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 17:51:41 ah, I can tell it wasn't oklopol looking very carefully 17:51:45 * oklopol pats his mind 17:51:49 because oklopol writes "i" in lowercase 17:51:51 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:51:55 yeah 17:51:56 ais523: i was wondering about that 17:52:00 but he could have typo'ed. 17:52:46 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 17:52:52 ais523: did i use "i" in 08 too? i can't say i remember. also i don't know which is year and which is day in the timestamps. 17:53:00 that was 2007 17:53:04 okay right 17:53:05 yy.mm.dd 17:53:07 then i remember even less. 17:53:08 oerjan: stop that! 17:53:18 * ehird_ swats oerjan -----### 17:53:21 * FireFly swats oerjan 17:53:22 * oerjan swats ais523 -----### 17:53:24 ---### 17:53:25 yeah oerjan you can clearly see he isn't going to die. 17:53:31 swat orgy 17:53:31 you need to get a better weapon 17:54:08 ehird_: "ehird_: ais523: i was wondering about that" <<< what this like "i in fact did *not* make that up", i mean... i remember it :D 17:54:14 * FireFly the swat-protected firefly 17:54:18 oklopol: ?? 17:54:21 * ais523 revenges with a SWAT team 17:54:22 Brb 17:54:27 so guys, remember when I made up a language where you can put labels and gotos _anywhere_ 17:54:31 yeah 17:54:40 ehird_: yes, and it ended up that you were just reinventing INTERCAL? 17:54:43 i'm like, gonna try that again 17:54:50 then again, i remember everything, even the made up stuff. 17:57:12 yeah like the time you rode a unicorn 17:57:35 yeah that was a lot of fun 17:57:47 I rode a dragon once 17:57:50 but it was only in NetHack 17:57:53 still loads of fun thoug 17:57:55 *though 17:58:11 what's the command for riding a dragon in nethack? 17:58:16 #ride 17:58:21 but you have to tame it and put a saddle on it first 18:00:01 foo() { 18:00:02 r = 0; 18:00:04 if (r == 3) { 18:00:06 bar: print("hi!"); 18:00:07 } 18:00:09 print(r); 18:00:10 } 18:00:11 goto bar; 18:00:13 does this print: 18:00:14 hi! 18:00:16 3 18:00:18 ? 18:00:45 i would've said both 18:00:46 ... 18:00:47 err 18:00:51 yeah um 18:00:52 that's probably what you meant. 18:00:53 that's what i meant 18:00:54 :P 18:01:05 it is? oh i see. 18:01:05 oklopol: so r magiaclly becomes 3 when you goto into the if? 18:01:13 hah :D 18:01:30 yeah it satisfies the if's condition somehow 18:01:58 cool. you can have declarative "satisfy this" expressions. 18:01:58 eek 18:02:16 something all languages should have btw 18:02:26 oh no, this is getting bad... 18:02:27 its less goto-y though. 18:02:30 that's uncomputable 18:02:41 indeed 18:02:46 who cares 18:02:50 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:02:54 while(i is not a solution to the Reimann hypothesis) {i++}; bar: print 5; 18:03:09 presumably you can't goto bar unless it's possible to reach it via ordinary program flow 18:03:14 oh, definitely not 18:03:20 you can goto bar 18:03:26 err... ok? 18:03:29 yes 18:03:31 just infloop if you don't know the answer. all programs can refuse to halt, it's not like anyone's bitching about implementing tc languages anyway. 18:03:31 just not if it's inside a loop? 18:03:31 it was just ifs 18:03:33 inside them 18:03:35 i dunno 18:03:38 I kind of like not fixing them 18:04:32 *and it's 18:04:42 not sure that's better 18:04:43 sadiofj 18:04:56 grreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen 18:04:59 ... so. 18:05:40 aberdeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen 18:05:41 06:55:26 There's only like 2 people in finland right? 18:05:42 06:55:29 Which one's your house? 18:05:44 06:55:37 yes, and 4 of them are on this channel 18:05:45 omg the start of the meme :D 18:05:47 err 18:05:49 truth statements 18:05:50 I mean 18:06:12 meme's are true. that's why they are so scary. 18:06:33 the are true belonging to meme? 18:06:35 oerjan: wut 18:07:02 i saw potential. i fulfilled it. 18:07:15 aka i refused to fix my spelling. 18:07:25 so ehird_ 18:07:31 did you decide to read the logs? 18:08:05 today has been an interesting part of the great debate: are the logs invented or discovered? 18:08:22 :D 18:08:42 seriously make a comic. 18:08:43 oklopol: i always do 18:09:27 07:16:13 optbot: oh :p. i think i've gotten ( lambdafnord body) to ( call/ cc...) ( generate-temporaries ( syntax( var) 18:09:36 i mean i would read it. 18:09:39 getting lambda fnord body to call/cc is painful, you need to generate temporaries syntax var 18:09:48 except if is sucked, then i'd be like why did i make him draw this ridiculous crap and tell you you suck. 18:09:52 but i mean otherwise 18:09:57 lambdafnord for dysfunctional programming 18:10:38 hm wait fungot should not merge fnords with neighboring words, should it 18:10:56 someone said lambdafnord 18:10:57 obviously 18:11:09 but they must have said it twice 18:11:22 or otherwise fungot would have replaced it by fnord 18:11:27 lambdafnord lambdafnord 18:11:49 wait no 18:11:51 hm would that cause fungot to loop? 18:11:53 oerjan: it was my terminal 18:11:58 eliminated the space 18:12:01 between lambda and fnord 18:12:03 aha 18:12:14 There's only like two meems in #esoteric right? 18:12:17 it's probably got a fnord defect 18:12:26 Corun: way more 18:12:27 more like 5 18:12:30 Corun: yes, me'em 18:12:38 Ore-some 18:12:46 there's the paradoxinns 18:12:52 (paradoxical finns) 18:12:54 okay i find oerjan way too funny today. 18:12:56 there's psox 18:13:08 there's "fungot wants to take over the world" 18:13:10 ais523: recall any others? 18:13:25 * oerjan swats ehird_ -----### 18:13:43 ehird_: well, oerjan does 18:13:44 well there were a few more legimate memes on the topic 18:13:51 oh yes! 18:13:53 swatting 18:13:55 the letter game 18:13:58 o 18:14:06 oko 18:14:08 okokoko 18:14:10 "#esoteric is a gay sex channel and nothing else" 18:14:13 okokokokokokoko 18:14:16 any others? 18:14:17 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 18:14:40 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 18:14:43 hmm. 18:14:45 here goes... 18:14:54 that's not strictly an #esoteric meme, since it's shared with #vjn iirc 18:14:55 okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko 18:15:12 live feed from #vjn 18:15:12 20:11… +volimo: oooooooooooooo 18:15:15 20:11… +volimo: oooooooooo 18:15:18 20:11… +volimo: ooooooooooooooo 18:15:21 20:11… +volimo: ooooooo 18:15:23 omg vjn I wanna go bak there 18:15:24 20:11… +volimo: oooooooooooooooooo 18:15:27 i'm going back to vjn okay 18:15:27 20:11… +volimo: ooooo 18:15:30 okay. 18:15:30 20:11… +volimo: oooooo 18:15:33 20:11… +volimo: ooo 18:15:34 they are 4 minutes behind us? 18:15:36 wait that was not very live 18:15:45 yeah it's a time microzone thing. 18:16:02 awesome 18:17:44 -> 18:17:57 bye. 18:18:01 bye 18:18:38 erm i mean afk, for now 18:19:28 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:19:34 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:26:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:34:13 -!- jix has joined. 18:42:47 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:47:42 . 18:47:47 am broken interweb? 18:53:20 am not 18:56:15 10:41:30 but... it should return bottom then or something? 18:56:19 10:41:53 "to return bottom" means "to die horribly" 18:56:21 10:41:57 :P 18:56:22 10:42:00 okay 18:56:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("_now_ ->"). 18:56:55 what a noob 18:57:43 10:57:14 source ^stdcons.bfm;source ^outs.bfm;string foo! "That's just wrong.\n";outs foo!end 18:57:45 10:57:39 oerjan: Stop with the Lambda. 18:57:51 pikhq is so hostile whenever functional programming is brought up. 18:58:38 interesting... 18:59:43 oklopol> ackermann's growth is mean, it grows so fast i can't see the nice big numbers, because they're so big the program crashes 19:00:17 well that is a problem with them. 19:02:57 11:51:46 hm, i would advise you against that attitude here. one of our resident 14-year olds seems frightfully smart. 19:02:59 who was it 19:03:04 this was in 2007 19:03:07 ihope? 19:03:18 11:52:18 yeah, i know :\ 19:03:20 11:52:52 that's exactly where i got that exact age :) 19:04:23 ihop 19:04:24 e 19:04:51 12:52:22 maintaining old projects mostly, i mostly design my new language, oklotalk, i'm pretty obsessed about it 19:04:53 12:52:47 but i'll soon be failing at implementing it :) 19:04:54 was that my first convo? 19:04:54 "soon" 19:04:56 = "next year" 19:05:00 oklopol: wut, no 19:05:04 er maybe 19:05:10 i mean that resident 14... thing 19:05:18 how is oklotalk coming along, anyway? 19:05:25 also, okokokokokoko 19:05:26 ais523: it died to J, then got revived 19:05:34 because oklopol discovered jdidn't do arbitrary precision numerics 19:05:35 it's died to a lot of things 19:05:37 and almost died. 19:05:44 and so put oklotalk back on the todo list 19:05:44 and primarily it's died because university. 19:06:17 although what ehird_ said is the official reason ofc 19:06:24 or official story dunno 19:06:28 ehird_: why the underscore? 19:06:57 bouncer 19:07:00 err wait 19:07:02 -!- ehird_ has changed nick to ehird. 19:07:05 dunno lol. 19:08:00 so, 40-bit pointers 19:08:01 discuss 19:08:15 39 is better 19:08:20 no 40 19:08:25 NO 19:08:28 40 19:08:36 oh alright. 19:09:06 ais523: anyway oklotalk has not seen any actual development after last september. 19:09:20 2008 19:09:21 ? 19:09:29 but that's irrelevant in that no one has seen the stuff developed sofar anyway.. 19:10:19 16:46:04 what is the point of regex? 19:10:20 16:46:33 ... 19:10:21 16:46:39 to... match patterns. 19:10:23 16:47:06 ok... 19:11:04 16:55:49 AND i dl'd cube 2 in french, but didn't want to do the work again, so i watched it 3 times hoping i'd just learn french 19:11:17 xD 19:11:18 that sounds very oklopol 19:11:52 oklopol: so did you learn french by that? :P 19:12:37 i learned je m'appelle claude! 19:12:50 (of course i didn't learn to type it) 19:13:22 it starts with a chick telling her name, although i'm not actually sure claude is a girl's name, that may actually be from friends. 19:13:29 but je m'appelle was there anyway 19:13:59 anyway i didn't actually miss much, 2 has least story 19:14:25 so, three words from one movie, watch 30000 more french movies and you'll know all the words, I guess 19:14:36 :) 19:17:32 anyone know a file to play raw audio files on lunix 19:17:34 tool 19:19:38 play plays just about anything 19:19:43 as long as you know the format 19:22:20 ehird@fhtagn:~/code/musak$ play -r 22 -t raw -8 -u musak.raw 19:22:21 fails 19:22:23 :, 19:22:24 :< 19:23:07 10:04:38 i just realized Gamegirl has the word "girl" in it 19:23:09 10:04:41 we're smart bots. 19:23:10 10:04:45 * oklopol is a bot that penetrates 19:23:12 10:04:49 ... 19:23:13 10:04:56 ... 19:23:14 10:05:05 like... metphorically 19:23:16 10:05:10 *metaphorically 19:23:29 10:05:13 ...I see. 19:23:31 10:05:32 * lament slowly backs away from oklopol 19:23:32 10:05:57 i'm < 1000 km long, don't worry 8| 19:23:34 10:06:20 length can be measured in several ways 19:23:35 10:06:27 i don't know which one you chose... 19:23:37 10:06:27 --- part: Gamegirl left #esoteric 19:24:52 :D 19:25:37 well i am! 19:26:01 10:43:52 this one day i had this weird urge to havea callstack, but i said to myself "don't you have another callstack, you just had one last week" and i was like "fuck you" 19:26:03 10:44:02 you know 19:27:07 oklopol: your weirdness is greatly amusing 19:27:37 ...did that one have a context? 19:28:00 yeah, gamegirl came in 19:28:03 and lament claimed we're all dead bots 19:28:11 ah 19:28:19 so ehird 19:28:26 you found an uncorrected typo 19:28:34 wait, where 19:28:35 this is a big day for me. 19:28:39 *have a 19:28:42 nop 19:28:45 that was my terminal 19:28:47 fucking up again 19:28:48 :D 19:28:50 ah 19:28:53 good :) 19:28:55 * oklopol is perfect 19:28:55 I TRICKED YOU INTO CORRECTING 19:28:57 BWAHAHAHAHA 19:29:16 no you didn't, i was actually fooling *you* here. 19:29:24 :( 19:29:30 i don't believe you 19:29:42 you think i wouldn't remember an uncorrected typo 19:30:28 i have two questions about bf, is the datainitialized to 0? how do you print stuff? kernel calls? 19:30:31 kernel calls XD 19:30:44 a) yes, and b) PSOX 19:30:45 * ais523 runs 19:30:50 AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEee 19:31:05 kernel calls? 19:31:13 11:54:48 ! will call asm INT n, where n is the value of the current cell. 19:31:16 oklopol the trickster. 19:31:31 that wouldn't be particularly useful unless you had control over the registers 19:31:36 ! is an addition command? I have only seen the 8 commands 19:31:39 OH HE FOUND YOU OUT 19:31:49 11:57:56 sorry, i just mislead people asking advice:< 19:31:50 :DD 19:31:56 anyway, it's easy to print kernel calls in BF 19:32:01 actually doing kernel calls might be difficult 19:32:09 but you can print them out to the screen easily enough 19:32:27 12:03:21 CakeProphet: Sure it can (although the *implementation* of such things is lacking). 19:32:30 12:03:38 One merely needs to implement PESOIX, or something similar, and voila. 19:32:35 PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX 19:32:44 (5 PSOXs is the correct way to yell PSOX repeatedly) 19:33:49 ^ul (PSOX )::*:**S 19:33:58 fungot? 19:34:00 " sorry, i just mislead people asking advice:<" well this just sounds like plain bad english. of course maybe my intentionally simplified english sounds like that from an outsider's perspective. 19:34:01 where's fungot gone? 19:34:06 fizzie is dead. 19:34:09 I'm sorry to have to tell you. 19:34:27 oklopol: that's correct english 19:34:37 although i guess you can "ask advice" 19:34:40 i just wouldn't use it 19:34:43 yeah 19:35:49 it maybe be the "advice:<" that makes it look clumsy. 19:35:53 ... 19:35:54 *may be 19:35:54 it was 19:35:57 "advice :<" 19:35:59 i know 19:36:09 STOP TELLING ME THINGS I ALREADY KNOW OR DON'T KNOW 19:36:31 are there things you do neither? 19:36:39 nope! 19:36:46 that's a polite way to tell someone to stfu 19:37:11 you mean, an obscure way, so that they don't realized they've been insulted 19:37:54 that's pretty much the definition of polite. 19:38:02 insulting people in ways they don't understand 19:38:17 oklopol: I love tht definition 19:38:21 need food, brb 19:39:03 you can do it for many things, "friends, the people you only insult behind their backs" 19:39:13 hmm, I broke my kde taskbar 19:40:20 hmm. i'm feeling a bit too lucid atm 19:40:51 night all... 19:40:58 night AnMaster 19:41:00 or rather, evening 19:41:03 it's pretty early for night 19:41:23 ais523, going to bed early due to flu (probably, or something equally terrible...) 19:41:27 ok 19:42:47 flus are for losers. 19:43:35 only losers get sick *sniffs and wraps blanket tighter around self* 19:47:44 ais523: in kde, hold down control-windowskey 19:47:47 see stars go around cursor 19:47:49 o_O 19:48:17 ehird: Compiz does that too, but it's not enabled by default 19:48:26 ah, I guess kde is using compiz 19:48:34 also, windows key = "super" in Linux terminology 19:48:47 and AFAIR, kde doesn't use compiz, it has its own implementation of the same things 19:51:19 !!!! 19:51:21 [19:50] ehird: it so happened, that oklopol turned 20 just today. 19:51:25 note: #vjn, probably total lies. 19:51:34 http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/jackbean.html argh, so many puns 19:51:44 but if not 19:51:48 world ending in soon times. 19:51:52 it is 19:52:00 oklopol: is lies? 19:52:02 ic 19:52:02 oklopol's about the same age as me I think, probably slightly younger 19:52:05 "lies" 19:52:07 ais523: he's 19 19:52:15 it was a joke you didn't get for obvious reasons 19:52:22 when he turns 20, the world will end because there's no way oklopol could be 20, i mean he's so... 19 19:52:23 oklopol: :DD 19:55:25 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 19:55:53 ehird: you mean oklopol will turn 20 in 2012? 19:56:11 exactly 19:56:15 he'll be 19 for _years_. 20:11:54 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:13:43 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit"). 20:45:04 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:05:08 Back on OS X. 21:05:22 http://www.errornerd.com/system-2.php?seed=The-Weird-Smile-Of-The-Dude-To-The-Right-Of-This-Article 21:09:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:13:57 -!- chuck has left (?). 21:17:53 -!- ehird has quit ("Caught sigterm, terminating..."). 21:18:09 -!- ashdasd has joined. 21:18:22 I keep committing irc faux pas: saying something in the wrong channel. 21:18:30 hi ashdasd 21:18:47 which channel did you say it in this time? 21:19:04 I linked to http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/1/vi in #emacs 21:19:10 hahaha 21:19:38 The resolution is to kill my bouncer so I don't see people insult me :P 21:19:52 also, the response format for ctcp version is NOTICE nickyourerespondingto :^AVERSION put version number here^A 21:20:25 [CTCP] Received CTCP-ehird reply from ashdasd: v13. 21:20:26 almost... 21:21:49 also, pasting that in #emacs was a stroke of genius 21:21:54 how did they react? 21:22:13 i have a hunch he doesn't know 21:22:29 because they kicked him? or because he parted in panic? 21:22:32 yeah I quit it too quickly :-( 21:22:46 "ashdasd: The resolution is to kill my bouncer so I don't see people insult me :P" 21:22:47 I am very shy round foreign channels :P 21:23:01 ashdazed 21:23:17 I should just run a bot on those channels so I can spy on them post-quit 21:23:27 like you do with ##nomic, you mean? 21:23:42 hm? 21:23:50 I don't read ##nomic. 21:23:56 I don't believe you 21:24:04 that's not my problem 21:25:07 * oklopol mutters something about ais523 being such an ehird towards ehird nowadays ;) 21:25:13 heh 21:25:19 need to go eat now 21:25:31 if the dog starts barking, please tell it to shut up, since it's late. 21:25:51 what, the dog or just it in general is late? 21:26:03 i mean 21:26:05 ppl sleep 21:26:14 so a dog barking would upset my neighs 21:27:04 -> 21:33:17 god, christel is annoying. 21:33:24 really? 21:33:47 can't she just get to the point with the bloomin' notices to every-freaking-one instead of inserting rubbish jokes every 3 words 21:37:19 When i googled for something and found entire transcripts of #emacs, i was appalled and stopped joining #emacs. This stinks of Big Brother. when i write on this wiki, i expect it to be publicly available. but i was naive enough to think that an irc session would be too transient to get indexed. my mistake, but it wonb 21:37:23 ^fail. 21:37:45 with all the people who could be logging, one probably will be 21:39:09 I should set up a sekrit channel logging bot and have it go in all channels it finds. 21:39:41 ashdasd: Freenode will very ban you if you do that 21:39:44 and I'll agree with them 21:39:58 i'll claim to have accidentally let the log directory open. 21:40:20 they ought not to believe you 21:40:24 given your track record, at least 21:40:32 they won't know it's me. tor. 21:41:12 does tor even work on freenode? 21:41:16 yep. 21:41:32 plus, linking the logs to the bot would be near-impossible. it'd pose as human. 21:41:41 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:44:03 you realize people have already done exactly that 21:44:11 who 21:44:34 umm 21:44:38 forgot the name 21:44:46 but there was a huge scandal 21:44:56 that's only because people found out,. 21:45:05 there are so many idlers on IRC. 21:45:16 yes, which is why i'm saying people have already done that 21:45:32 if there was a scandal, the performers are crap. 21:46:13 their site doesn't even come up in search for irc log 21:46:25 so i assume they phailed completely afterwards 21:48:11 -!- ehird has joined. 21:48:21 -!- ashdasd has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:48:46 Butt tacular 21:49:01 ehird: your bouncer's reworking? 21:49:09 It never broke, I killed it to exit #emacs. 21:49:27 I thought Freenode had banned it? 21:49:28 I couldn't just part as I Cmd-Q'd my client immediately. 21:49:37 ais523: ermm, when? 21:49:39 months ago? 21:49:43 well yeah, they did then... 21:49:43 yes 21:49:50 surely you've seen me on it since then? 21:49:52 @eso-std.org? 21:50:05 ... which, by the way, expires today 21:52:40 http://alpha61.com/primenumbershittingbear/ it's back! 21:53:31 ehird: how long do you think it'll be squatted for once it expires? 21:53:42 ais523: I doubt it will be squatted 21:54:04 maybe I'll start up my own ESO some time 21:54:11 who said ESO died? 21:54:11 running under ais523 principles rather than ehird principles 21:54:16 it might actually get something done that way 21:54:21 heh 21:54:25 and ESO has been effectively dead forever, because it's never done anything 21:54:32 other than argue about what sort of markup to use 21:54:36 actually, eso-1 got pretty far. 21:54:56 ais523: http://esoteric.sange.fi/ENSI/ 21:54:57 have a field day 21:55:32 had a number of famous people 21:55:33 Ørjan Johansen, from the Norwegian language 21:55:33 Panu Kalliokoski, from the Finnish language 21:55:33 Gerson Kurz, from the German language 21:55:33 Chris Pressey, from the Canadian language 21:55:38 i started eso because I like bikeshedding 21:55:57 http://esoteric.sange.fi/ENSI/brainfuck-1.0.txt hahaha 21:56:14 http://esoteric.sange.fi/ENSI/brainfuck-1.3.txt Real standard 21:57:47 nah, they're all jokes I think 21:58:03 erm, http://esoteric.sange.fi/ENSI/brainfuck-1.3.txt is pretty serious 21:58:18 not very, but it's a usable setandard 21:58:21 not really 21:58:26 it doesn't even address the EOF problem 21:58:41 it insists on a truly semi-infinite tape 22:07:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:07:09 hi oerj 22:07:11 oerjan 22:07:20 ehi 22:07:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:08:06 er, hi 22:08:32 ELECTRONIC HI 22:08:38 hi 22:09:04 by the way, does anyone here know why vertical tabs? 22:09:16 I like vertical tabs 22:09:32 form letters? 22:10:28 i imagine if you were filling out a lot of them on a typewriter, vertical tabs would be nice 22:10:37 that was Wikipedia's idea 22:10:42 a 22:10:53 and also if you print on form letters 22:11:43 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 22:11:58 "his body's shutting down" ... blah, do they really say that? is that actually a meaningful metaphor for some medical condition? 22:12:32 nope. 22:12:53 a body rebooting would be weird 22:13:08 "*** Body going down for reboot NOW" 22:14:09 sleep is just the body's fsck 22:14:26 "I'm sorry, she's going to runlevel 0, there's nothing we can do except bring her down gracefully" 22:17:59 i learned je m'appelle claude! 22:18:12 je m'appelle tres bien aussi 22:18:21 there should be a language with no points at all 22:18:26 function composition, no variables 22:18:28 oerjan: "I am also called very well"? 22:18:32 do not say ski calculus 22:18:36 for I will rip your brain out 22:19:04 ais523: "i call myself", technically 22:19:10 ah, yes 22:19:17 sorry, it's 10pm and I'm not thinking straight 22:19:38 oerjan: so in other words, you think you have a good name? 22:19:54 ais523: you're overanalyzing 22:20:22 it's just a nonsense phrase i remember from somewhere 22:22:34 ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP_programming_language ? 22:22:46 is it impossible to add holes to FP? 22:23:16 "⊥ is the undefined value, or bottom" <- lame. 22:24:01 ehird: um every tc functional language has bottom, why not name it? 22:24:15 turing completeness sux :P 22:25:06 http://xkcd.com/545/ 22:25:37 ok, that's ridiculous 22:25:59 if that ever happened, I think it would be a fairly good bet that the article would be protected 22:26:05 to which word count? :-D 22:26:11 who knows? 22:26:15 probably there'd be a wheel war 22:26:20 I'd lobby it for deletion 22:26:23 to see what happens 22:26:26 then it would have an even word count 22:26:28 due to having no words 22:26:38 I think it would be more fun to leave the number of words ambiguous 22:26:38 ais523: does a deleted article exist? no 22:26:41 it can't have a set of words 22:26:41 say by adding in a nbdp 22:26:44 *nbsp 22:26:44 there is no such set 22:26:48 and hyphenated words 22:26:50 and apostrophised words 22:27:01 ais523: therefore, hatman must give the money to ** Exception: undefined 22:27:14 ais523: does wp have templates that can depend on who's watching it? (probably) 22:28:06 oerjan: no, although the feature's been requested every now and then 22:28:12 the problem is caching 22:28:21 you can use CSS to depend on which skin they use 22:28:34 ah. 22:28:39 or do things that change every time the article's refreshed 22:28:46 that's what they did on the US presedential election day 22:28:54 they set up the Main Page to show featured articles about both candidates 22:29:09 but the order depended on when the page had last been purged, and it's purged quite a lot 22:29:20 hahahah 22:29:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:32:16 http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3503/xkcdhybridka3.png 22:33:04 ais523: 22:33:09 I like pie lots 22:33:19 now what! 22:33:19 haha 22:35:08 Heh 22:35:29 i see a lot of pie blinking out of existence 22:35:49 * oerjan scares FireFly with the swatter, but without hitting -----### 22:36:18 * FireFly scares oerjan with jokes about norwegian people, but without telling any. 22:36:25 AYEEEEEEEEH 22:37:14 * FireFly -> for a couple of days 22:37:24 http://www.bbspot.com/News/2007/10/xkcd-comic-reenactment-leads-to-100-deaths.html 22:37:53 http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35035#p1388172 <-- haha 22:38:37 "Once something is on the web, it's there forever," said xkcd fan Marlon Hatcher. "I can't wait to go to the next meetup in San Francisco and kill myself with other fans." 22:38:38 :D 22:39:05 I hope that news story isn't real 22:39:10 if it is, the journalism on it is rubbish 22:39:20 dude, it's bbspot 22:39:22 they're the geek onion 22:39:49 I tend not to find fake newspapers particularly amusing 22:39:59 true or not, it's funny. 22:40:46 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 22:41:11 also, I fully support http://www.everytopicintheuniverseexceptchickens.com/ 22:42:06 what does it typically discuss? 22:42:27 * ais523 wonders if there's a http://www.thebestpageintheuniverseexceptchickens.com 22:42:36 ais523: click it 22:42:38 it's about wikipedia 22:42:52 by the guy who writes dinosaur comics 22:42:56 and wrote Jokes Explained 22:43:16 which link, yours or mine? 22:43:20 mine 22:44:26 hey! 22:44:29 gperf finished! 22:44:32 hi 22:44:33 wow 22:44:53 only took 6.5 days of cpu time 22:45:05 make green ness 22:45:17 "On August 17, 2007, the Spanish TVE2 ("La 2") public T.V. channel vandalised the Spanish article on John Lennon in the 2:30 news program, just for the sake of making a story" 22:45:18 lol 22:45:56 -!- Robdgreat has joined. 22:46:37 hi Robdgreat 22:47:27 hi there 22:47:40 Yo dawg, I heard you like fractals so I put a sierpinski gasket in your sierpinski gasket so you can triangle while you triangle 22:47:53 where does the yo dawg thing come from? 22:48:01 what started the meme? what was the original phrase? 22:48:07 allow me to link you 22:48:39 tl;dr: Xzibit is a rapper. He has a show on MTV, "Pimp My Ride". 22:48:50 They put stupid shit in cars behind people's backs relating to their interests. 22:49:00 "Yo dawg, I heard you like X so we put an X-thing in your car so you can X while you drive." 22:49:07 This was then generalized 22:49:36 also, some nitpickers point out it's supposedly "Sup dawg" 22:49:44 indeed. 22:49:48 http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d6/Yoyoyodawg.jpg 22:50:48 also, i don't visit that site any more. 22:50:56 that link is sfw. 22:51:06 that general website isn't, though 22:51:12 indeed. 22:51:19 it's quite possibly blocked, and you get in trouble for setting off the blocker 22:51:28 er, blocked where? 22:51:32 you mean at work/school? 22:51:43 here at university 22:51:46 if oerjan is at one of those right now, his schedule is fucked up 22:51:55 nah i'm at home 22:51:57 although indeed makes sense for you 22:52:02 I've already set it off once and had to explain 22:52:10 for some bizarre reason, they blocked the text of the X11 licence 22:52:28 i just don't _like_ watching semi-porn while i am trying to read about something completely different 22:52:46 ... "semi-porn"? 22:52:52 i said that image was sfw. 22:53:00 but yes, the ads are annoying. 22:53:01 ais523: haha, how the heck did they question you? 22:53:02 ehird: and indeed it was 22:53:08 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi. 22:53:10 "WHY DID YOU VIEW THE x11 LICENSE? HAVE YOU NO MORALS?!?!?" 22:53:22 "...THE GPL IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE LICENSE!" 22:53:48 ehird: well, I sent an apologetic email explaining that I had no idea it was blocked until I hit the filter 22:54:00 did they question you first, though? 22:54:04 luckily, I'm friends with the people who administer the thing (who don't like it either0 22:54:10 i wanna know what the heck they said :D 22:54:11 ehird: it's automated, a big scary red messaeg 22:54:16 ah 22:54:23 web filters are so ridiculous 22:54:30 trivial to get around and annoy legitimate users 22:54:32 just like DRM... 22:54:43 I used to go around the filter a lot, because the filter server kept crashing 22:54:59 and so I couldn't even access email until I turned the thing off 22:55:07 however, nowadays it's a lot more reliable, so I go through it 22:55:14 also they blocked the exploit I used to use 22:55:33 and I can't be bothered to find a new one, it's not worth it 22:57:19 "Lengthwise, it'd degenerate into the debate over whether 2 is odd or even." 22:57:20 WHAT 22:57:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:58:39 ehird: indeed 22:58:44 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat 22:59:53 http://www.xkcd545.com/ <- fail 23:00:25 ehird: 2? i did see someone trying that with 1 in that discussion you linked 23:00:26 xkcds have their own domain names now? 23:00:36 ais523: no, some idiot registered it 23:00:46 thinking that it wouldn't be deleted because he's an idiot 23:00:49 does it redirect to xkcd 545? 23:01:00 I'm not lynx(1), ais523. 23:01:05 You're perfectly capable of clicking links. 23:01:21 ehird: yes, but I don't /want/ to 23:01:34 "If the Wikipedia article gets deleted, null doesn't pay." that's definitely fail :D 23:01:36 either use a browser or miss out on the www... 23:03:16 Or use telnet :) 23:05:25 telnet is a browser 23:06:33 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:08:11 http://codu.org/wiki/?title=Card+Chess 23:08:23 it's not really chess... 23:08:57 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:09:14 GregorR: you should invent my awesome game 23:09:34 ais523: No. No it is not. 23:09:37 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 23:09:39 ais523: It's sort of in the /spirit/ of chess :P 23:09:55 ehird: If it's your game, I didn't invent it :P 23:10:14 GregorR: the basic idea is: make solving it = breaking RSA (that is, primey factory) 23:10:23 and yet still try and keep it possible for human 23:10:23 s 23:10:28 = WHERE'S YOUR AI NOW 23:10:41 for extra points, involve fractal 23:10:41 s 23:11:09 ehird: that's easy 23:11:31 bsmntbombdood: yes, but it has to be playable by humans 23:11:34 productively 23:11:40 with actual skill levels and the like, just as normal games 23:11:47 the number just have to be small enough 23:12:02 o 23:12:06 okoko 23:12:07 bsmntbombdood: point: missed. 23:12:31 ehird: I don't think that any way of organising the data, humans will be any good at solving RSA 23:12:33 no 23:12:37 your point was stupid 23:12:42 bsmntbombdood: waah. 23:12:47 by the way, new scientist's reporting that a 28-bit quantum computer has been made 23:12:50 ais523: the idea isn't to have humans solve RSA. 23:12:54 (that's 28 quantum bits of memory /altogether/) 23:12:54 i was gonna say something... 23:12:58 the idea is that for computers to solve it effectively, 23:13:01 they have to solve RSA. 23:13:12 ais523: cool, did they factor 20 yet? 23:13:14 and that there are plans for a 128-bit quantum computer being made along the same principle 23:13:16 or else be strong ai 23:13:18 oklopol: 20's even 23:13:25 ais523: ..so? 23:13:28 I think it could factor 21, though 23:13:34 oklopol: so Shor's algorithm fails on even numbers 23:13:36 i don't know anything about shor's 23:13:45 yeah okay assumed but didn't actually know 23:14:00 rsa numbers have only 2 factors anyway 23:14:24 well. 21 is the next logical step 23:16:26 is factorization np complete? 23:16:32 no 23:16:32 no 23:16:35 it's polynomial time 23:16:44 you can do it in O(n) trivially 23:16:48 but that's rather slow on big numbers 23:17:19 isn't the complexity of factorisation usually expressed in terms of the size of the number? 23:17:19 ... 23:17:24 not its value 23:17:24 yeah 23:17:32 well, O(2^n) then 23:17:43 it's pseudo-polynomial 23:17:48 personally, though, I think n should be the number 23:17:49 else what would you call it? 23:17:51 it shouldn't. 23:18:21 if it's the number, it's pseudo-polynomial, it's not polynomial on input size, it's polynomial on some invariant about input. 23:18:29 hm theory: the universe is actually simulated on a classical computer, using looping to simulate quantum effects. when quantum computers are built the number of loop iterations needed to simulate them goes asymptotical. the universe thus grinds to a halt on Dec 22, 2012 :D 23:18:29 in this case whatever number it represents 23:18:42 but if p=np, then you can factor in polynomial time in size right? 23:19:02 oerjan: that's an insane theory 23:19:10 also, people are getting the 2012 thing all wrong 23:19:22 why is that particular doomsday date the one people seem to focus on, ayway? 23:19:23 n 23:19:31 i've said this so many times to you 23:19:34 THEY'RE NEW AGERS! 23:19:36 THEY DON'T USE THEIR BRAIN! 23:19:42 ais523: i think it's because i watched that documentary. 23:19:45 THEY'RE IDIOTS WHO WILL CROWD AROUND ANYTHING "SPIRITUAL"! 23:19:49 but why that one in /particular/? 23:19:52 ais523: because it's the next one up with some kind of rationale 23:19:52 bsmntbombdood: well sure 23:19:59 BECAUSE THE MAYANS WERE CLEVER AND HAD "TECHNOLOGY"! 23:20:04 AND THEY PREDICTED IT VAGUELY AND OMNIOUSLY! 23:20:07 IT MUST BE TRUE! 23:20:10 does p!=np imply that factorization is hard? 23:20:10 oops, capslock. 23:20:13 manual capslock! 23:20:31 caps lock is cruise control for cool? 23:20:38 cruise control for 2012 23:20:38 (the previous line was typed with caps lock on) 23:20:52 bsmntbombdood: i don't know whether it's np-hard. everyone else does 23:20:59 CAPSLOCK + SHIFT = UPPERCASE ON OS X 23:21:17 more like i don't remember, because when i last looked at factorization, i didn't know what it meant. 23:21:21 i mean np-hardness 23:21:28 ehird: why? 23:21:32 that's a bit ridiculous 23:21:47 WHAT IF YOU WANT TO TYPE A lot BUT WITH A FEW lowercase WORDS OR lETTERS IN? 23:21:54 bsmntbombdood: no, but p=np would imply it's easy 23:22:03 ais523: DON"T USE CAPSLOCK 23:22:06 (well, polynomially easy) 23:22:06 and before you say that's ridiculous, that was typical style for earlier versions of BASIC 23:22:16 oh wait 23:22:19 and shift+caps lock was capital there too, annoyingly 23:22:29 in fact i definitely should've known it's not been proven np-hard. 23:22:33 I still mostly used caps lock when writing basic, though, as everything had to be capital but variable names 23:23:12 no one knows whether it's np-hard, i should think 23:23:16 yeah 23:23:52 i don't see any reason to use lowercase except that many dislike uppercase on irc 23:24:06 lowercase is easier to read for long periods of time 23:24:38 i don't believe that 23:25:30 they also say monospaced fonts are harder to read 23:26:15 and that is complete bullshit 23:26:28 no it isnt' 23:26:32 (INTERNET ARGUMENTS) 23:26:47 INTERN ET ARGUMENTS 23:27:36 is so. 23:28:11 there's actually a course on quantum computing in our uni, would be one way to learn shor's algo, i'm too lazy to read the wiki page anyway. 23:28:34 oklopol: it wasn't until after my course on engineering that I understood Shor's algorithm 23:28:38 it's based on Fourier stuff 23:28:52 and all the descriptions of it I've seen assume you already know how that works 23:29:16 i might know fourier stuff, i but i don't know whether i do. 23:29:24 *-i 23:29:54 you have to get your numbers fourier before they can be shorn 23:29:59 what does "engineering" mean for a course? 23:30:15 "shorn", hah 23:30:39 * oerjan is surprised to still be alive after that one 23:31:13 because it was that bad? 23:33:20 well, clearly it killed everyone else 23:34:10 clearly 23:34:59 maybe you were saved by not getting all of it, or something 23:37:17 i think i just liked "shorn" 23:37:45 ais523: what is an engineering course? :) 23:37:55 oklopol: well it's electronic engineering in my case 23:38:14 i have an electronics course next wednesday 23:38:20 err i mean the one after that 23:38:24 and 23:38:26 i also mean exam 23:38:27 . 23:39:20 also calculus and software engineering and some ai, should probably try to cut down on the irc chatter. 23:44:12 so guys reiserfs4 23:44:18 I hear it's gonna be a killer filesystem 23:44:30 * oerjan swats ehird to death -----### 23:44:31 that joke is so last year 23:44:37 SimonRC: i know but it's still funny 23:44:41 oerjan: dammit Hans! 23:44:44 I was joking! 23:44:51 and i wasn't? 23:44:52 apparently Reiser is having a bad time in prison 23:44:58 also, don't call me Hans 23:45:11 SimonRC: ... and? 23:45:52 SimonRC: ... and? 23:46:39 I can't find where the news article went 23:46:48 On 10 January 2009 it was reported that Hans Reiser is recovering after having been beaten up by several prisoners.[52] 23:46:50 oerjan: why not? 23:46:51 engineering: it's a bit of programming, a bit of electronics, a bit of maths, and some business management that I hate 23:46:54 i feel ... so sorry for him? 23:46:55 does it sound too swedish? 23:47:08 oklopol: because! 23:47:25 ah, here it is: http://cbs5.com/crime/hans.reiser.attack.2.905257.html 23:48:01 oklopol: oh it's a perfectly normal norwegian name, it's just not mine 23:48:54 maybe it should be. 23:48:54 i've got two cousins with it as first or middle name 23:48:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:49:29 and bye ice 23:49:30 (although we don't actually use the latter one) 23:50:31 well middle names are kinda useless 23:51:44 i'm just about the only one on my father's side of the family who _doesn't_ have one... 23:53:16 also, reiser means "travels" in norwegian