< 1236643268 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1236643290 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There, this should be enough to confuse the stupid spam bots, so I'll only get mail from the intelligent spam bots." <- very ais523 < 1236643305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that me who wrote that, or someone else/ < 1236643314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit I could have writen that, but I don't remember writing that, it's my attitude < 1236643315 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yosefk.com/mail.html < 1236643496 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236643651 0 :kerlobot!n=kerlobot@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236643663 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flicks kerlobot's nose < 1236643667 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643834 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643865 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : once in a blue moon = 1.16699016 × 10-8 hertz < 1236643895 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut < 1236643929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose you can calculate it... < 1236643940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that there's an official definition of blue moon < 1236643945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everyone loves nanohertz < 1236643948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ought to < 1236644003 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hertz is a measure of time ... ? < 1236644007 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a product called Nanohertz, or a trademark on it. < 1236644018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: frequenct < 1236644020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*frequency < 1236644029 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so shouldn't < 1236644031 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once in a blue moon < 1236644033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that measures the rate at which blue moons happen < 1236644033 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be a measure of time < 1236644036 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1236644050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 / (once in a blue moon) would be a measure of time < 1236644054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be the interval between blue moons < 1236644061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue moons happen once per year iirc < 1236644080 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently not < 1236644085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION restarts firefox < 1236644088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upgraded it < 1236644095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it acts weirdly between upgrades and restarts < 1236644106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was actually getting assertion failures, which is unusual < 1236644147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 / once in a blue moon = 2.71542689 years < 1236644344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty close to e years < 1236644359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236644495 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236644529 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, make sure you catch all possible exceptions in your C-callable C++ functions. By the way, C++ exceptions can be of any built-in or user-defined type, and you can't catch an arbitrary exception and check what kind of exception it is at run time, and operator new can throw exceptions. Enjoy." < 1236645031 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236645677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236645841 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236646179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236646537 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236649588 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236650148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236650278 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236650785 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric quotation marks: The beginning of a quote is marked by quotation marks followed by a space. The end of a quote is marked by a space followed by the same number of quotation marks. It is not legal to use more than that many quotation marks in a row within the quote. < 1236650811 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if you want to quote the string {"""""""""}, you have to say """""""""" """"""""" """""""""", not " """"""""" ". < 1236650897 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavily nested quotes are easy: """"""" """""" """"" """" """ "" " foo " "" """ """" """"" """""" """"""" < 1236652095 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652096 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236652100 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so git looks pretty cool < 1236652138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236652152 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236652895 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236653140 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-126-187.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236653955 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236659031 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236660303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236660434 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662411 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662641 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662689 0 :question!n=question@190.87.24.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662712 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1236662715 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a question < 1236662730 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit hahaha this one is for esoteric programming < 1236662731 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236662737 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong room < 1236662737 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236662740 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236662798 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf was that < 1236663168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236663600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALAMARI DAMACY < 1236663883 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236663893 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236670028 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236670961 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236670964 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236671999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236672000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236672370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236677027 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236677029 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-39-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236679032 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236679203 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@host-134-225-165-219.readingconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236680929 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1236680936 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on AsieCrypt for no reason < 1236680952 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made it make colors way-too-scrambled < 1236682312 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236683092 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236683651 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Computer has gone to sleep" < 1236684799 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236684810 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@host-134-225-165-219.readingconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236685067 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236687979 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236689591 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236690443 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236692103 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236692248 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there, i got a little question to befunge: i want just to print some letters right after each other, but when i have a second line in code i end up in an endless loop http://pastebin.com/m8052f85 - can someone give me a hint what i am missing < 1236693201 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236694062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... the code flow wraps around, so at the end of line 1 it wraps to start of line 1. You need to use explicit v, ^, <, > instructions to direct your instruction pointer to the second line if you want it to go there. < 1236694101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for character-printing the canonical way is to just do something like 055+"!dlrow ,elloH">:#,_@ < 1236694262 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for responding fizzie - i think i understand it now < 1236694464 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i run with ^<>v through the code, right? < 1236694537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, I mean, you stick one of those whenever you want to turn somewhere. < 1236694588 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny :D < 1236694641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or want to make sure you are going somewhere. The more rectangular way of writing the print loop -- >:#,_ -- is: < 1236694647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...>:v < 1236694647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^,_@ < 1236694718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see an inspirational piece of Befunge, our local irc-bot, fungot, is written in it: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt < 1236694719 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, use firefox 3 or a webkit nightly.... < 1236694738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's a *plain text* page! Why would you need Firefox 3 for it? < 1236694738 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. 2 alt keys wouldnt work in an interpreter < 1236694763 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O nice - so you really can write something useful with it :> < 1236694772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of useful, sure. < 1236694797 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-105-179.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236694818 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236694821 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i mean you are quite limited with this language like opening a file or something like that < 1236694851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, that's why fungot is written in Funge-98, which adds a whole lot of extensions. < 1236694851 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: two ways 2 fix, but there is no new-line in morse code ( the way databases do it), but... < 1236694870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the FILE fingerprint for file operations, or SOCK for internetsy stuff. < 1236694904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I didn't know databases do it in morse code. < 1236694917 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i will check this out - cause i have to write a "creative" program with an esoteric language like befunge, brainfuck or whitespace and i have no idea what to write < 1236694941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have to"? Is it some sort of an assignment or what? < 1236695007 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236695100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do they have esolang-related assignments? < 1236695353 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236695357 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236695453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1236695456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang assignments? < 1236695456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1236695526 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just "whatever we like", but it should creative and i have no idea what i should write :D < 1236695631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is this? < 1236695658 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a university in austria < 1236695665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1236695700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely go for funge-98 if you have to use befunge to do something < 1236695778 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i am not sure if we are allowed to use it, cause they said that we can use befunge, brainfuck, intercal or whitespace - but with funge98 you can do much more < 1236695798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to be classicists, with that sort of language selection. < 1236695808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: befunge-98 classes as befunge < 1236695842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the fairness: I just have to hide tiny esolang-related things in otherwise-sensible programs; never has there been yet a "do something with befunge" course assignment. < 1236695862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236695865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world is cruel. < 1236695935 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah ok, i ve just read that its an generalization of befunge - but that sounds good, so i guess i will check it out < 1236695945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: kind of < 1236695960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-98 defines unefunge-98, befunge-98 and trifunge-98 < 1236695962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 2 and 3D) < 1236695971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98 is just an extension of befunge93 < 1236695980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "befunge" refers to both < 1236695993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unefunge" and "trifunge" always refer to -98, since there's no other versions < 1236696007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well ... maybe -97 :-D < 1236696231 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236696268 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i find this language funny :D < 1236696298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be glad you picked befunge < 1236696307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can use -98, and it's also pretty easy :P < 1236696317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck and whitespace are about equal < 1236696329 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think they are too hard to read < 1236696331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but intercal inputs as "ONE FIVE TWO" for 152 and outputs as roman numerals :-D < 1236696337 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please! :p < 1236696345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it has no conventional arithmetic whatsoever. you have to implement it yourself. < 1236696355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the opposite of GOTO. (COME FROM). < 1236696360 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya :D < 1236696370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks more enterprisey than some silly befunge. < 1236696379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236696630 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a specific interpreter you can recommand me ? < 1236696643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI or cfunge are the only compliant befunge-98 interpreters. < 1236696655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first was released in 2007. Turns out it's hard to get it right. < 1236696678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Use cfunge if you want ridiculous amounts of speed for whatever reason, unless you're on windows, because AnMaster refuses to support windows. < 1236696686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are on windows, try CCBI. < 1236696692 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am on linux < 1236696698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1236696706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI has a linux binary, though. That might be easier. < 1236696707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/files/befunge/interpreters/ccbi/ccbi_linux.zip < 1236696727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to compile CCBI: http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html < 1236696729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cfunge: http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/ < 1236696731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236696751 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236696771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're forgetting RC/Funge-98 < 1236696777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1236696783 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i only need one :D < 1236696784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236696800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: if you type like this,,,,,,ehehehehhe.....try rc/funge98....http://rcfunge98.com/ < 1236696801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one thing: ccbi has a debugger, but it is slower. cfunge is way faster and only has a basic trace < 1236696812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, that's a good reason to use ccbi as a newbie then < 1236696821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"way faster" < 1236696821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neldoreth: but don't try and compile it, it's hell to compile the D source) < 1236696829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: LDC should compile it < 1236696838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it all depends on what you are using it for. fungot running a slow underload interpreter? cfunge or in the future jitfunge < 1236696838 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when first i was a < 1236696838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should actually be pretty easy due to that, these days < 1236696841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what you say, getting a D environment is a pain < 1236696842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236696843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging a script: ccbi < 1236696847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program* < 1236696849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neldoreth. < 1236696852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's writing a befunge program. for school. < 1236696859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he hasn't used the language before. < 1236696863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one thing: ccbi's debugger is quite a pain < 1236696868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hg clone , run cmake and you have a D environment < 1236696869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are used to something nice like gdb < 1236696872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so speed is probably not an issue, and a debugger is useful < 1236696874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: When first you were a... what? < 1236696874 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: some semantics guy who is doing the compilation." hahahah puns r fun. < 1236696876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, CCBI has more crazy fingerprints for that < 1236696884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: tango? < 1236696886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep < 1236696895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236696897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised at how easily I got it to work, actually :-) < 1236696899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just try that. < 1236696902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it should build CCBI now < 1236696906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot me a link? < 1236696907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fixed the bugs after I tried it :-) < 1236696913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you know there is a "break on instruction" in ccbi? However it only works if you enter the number representing the ASCII code point, not the letter... < 1236696914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.dsource.org/projects/ldc/ < 1236696921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bugs that broke CCBI, that is < 1236696926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh only one break point too < 1236696928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it for a while, though, it could be it still doesn't work < 1236696928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1236696931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than no debugger < 1236696943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since speed is an issue, ccbi is probably the better choice for a newbie < 1236696945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't < 1236696956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. cfunge *does* include a .gdbinit file though < 1236696957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed isn't an issue anyway unless you run the game of life or optimize for Mycology < 1236696964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or run fungot < 1236696964 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i can let you do it? < 1236696965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe for fungot, I haven't tried that < 1236696966 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: spineless tagless g-machine, a virtual machine for an oisc processor, but using the sxml fnord you see it, if it can't! it doesn't complain about fnord < 1236696978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you tried it on CCBI? < 1236696986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc fizzie did. < 1236696995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it unbearably slow? < 1236697010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just 0.1 instead of 0.05 seconds response time? :-P < 1236697010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I remember it < 1236697012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember anymore. I've done it on RC/Funge though; how do those two speed-compare? < 1236697017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was indistinguishably fast < 1236697020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since IRC lag is the main factor. < 1236697025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from on e.g. complex ^ul) < 1236697048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fungot speed mostly matters if you care about the speed of the brainfuck/underload interps. < 1236697048 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: last time i checked < 1236697049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, he said he could let the bf interpreter run about 4 times as many cycles before "out of time" under cfunge iirc.. < 1236697049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* LLVM Test Suite (67M) < 1236697050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had to guess I'd say RC/Funge-98 is somewhere between CCBI and cfunge < 1236697051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gawps < 1236697057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that might have been for rc/funge < 1236697058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236697068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: rc/funge is unoptimized, I think < 1236697073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I do remember he said he increased the limits under cfunge < 1236697073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably the slowest < 1236697076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, so is CCBI < 1236697082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the most part, anyway < 1236697088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to cfunge ;-P < 1236697089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236697098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is a lil slower than C too. < 1236697101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, everything is unoptimized compared to cfunge < 1236697112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, jitfunge is more optimised < 1236697114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm is unoptimized compared to that dungpile. < 1236697120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, jitfunge doesn't optimize. < 1236697121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take issue with people saying "language A is slower than language B" < 1236697128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, yes, I know < 1236697134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me a D as fast as C < 1236697146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can show you D programs as fast as C programs ;-) < 1236697153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do they do the same thing? < 1236697156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D minus D features is basically weirdo C. < 1236697163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Amazingly enough they do < 1236697169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well depending on what you mean, nor does cfunge. jitfunge could potentially. Just in cfunge I tried to write all the C code fast. But I don't try to constant fold code. Like jitfunge does < 1236697178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say jitfunge is more optimising < 1236697187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green bunnies. < 1236697193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy, bunnies! < 1236697195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge is broken, though; that's a disadvantage. < 1236697202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, llvm's configure has --enable-optimized < 1236697205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something doesn't work it doesn't count < 1236697209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it isn't finished yet < 1236697214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENABLE OPTIMIZED! < 1236697216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge was broken in the beginning too < 1236697225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway currently cfunge is in a code clean up phase < 1236697238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I suppose AnMaster would argue CCBI is broken since FILE's R doesn't reflect on EOF currently :-P < 1236697264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since you mention that. Fixed mycology for it? < 1236697264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What're you building LLVM for, binaries too simple for you? < 1236697270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope, not even locally < 1236697275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236697280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: macports only has 2.4 < 1236697286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Feel free to do it yourself < 1236697292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3rd-party binaries for CLI software make me itchy < 1236697294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah, right, mac. < 1236697304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start a Scheme channel that, whenever someone says "This program doesn't work", and it doesn't meet the standard, we'll reply "Mu. Show us a program." < 1236697311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re Deewiant: But then, I suppose AnMaster would argue CCBI is broken since FILE's R doesn't reflect on EOF currently :-P) < 1236697342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, binaries from seemingly trustworthy 3rd parties are fine < 1236697343 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there somewhere in addition to the spec simple examples for the file i/o usage < 1236697352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, it wouldn't be the official version. What if every funge developer then decided to fork mycology so their interpreter passed. Wait forget that. Changing the interpreter would be easier than changing mycology... < 1236697353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know if your compiler has been taken, anyway < 1236697366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... I meant that you'd send me a patch < 1236697377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not itchy as in nervous < 1236697377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Not really. < 1236697392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itchy as in dammit it's a .pkg and I don't know where it's going graagh why does a CLI program have a graphical installer this is stupid I'm compiling my own. < 1236697409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm. diff thinks mycology is a binary file btw... ;P < 1236697418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a binary file < 1236697420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains a null byte < 1236697428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes it binary < 1236697443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. -a forces it to treat the file as text < 1236697447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf llvm's Make has no clean < 1236697462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. what? iirc it uses configure? < 1236697468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf != automake. < 1236697472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1236697473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it use CMake? < 1236697476 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok, the ~ part speaks quite for it self < 1236697478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I always done out of tree builds < 1236697486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it also has a make system < 1236697491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cmake build system is WIP iirc < 1236697492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean:: < 1236697492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(Verb) rm -rf BuildTools < 1236697498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it does have a clean, it's just broken. < 1236697502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it is completed < 1236697512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION `make -j3` < 1236697519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION in the near future: `make -j9` < 1236697521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suggest solution: mkdir build; cd build; ../configure ... < 1236697530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to clean just delete build < 1236697536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it DOES an out of tree buil < 1236697537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1236697539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BuildTools/ < 1236697543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236697555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh, I dont' think their build system does -j properly < 1236697558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then your llvm is quite different from mine... < 1236697569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this yall, I'm compiling it with cmake < 1236697569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe special for apple? < 1236697577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://llvm.org/releases/2.5/llvm-2.5.tar.gz < 1236697579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, very special. < 1236697596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, last I asked, which admittedly was a few months ago, cmake didn't yet handle the install bit < 1236697606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installation is overrated < 1236697610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 came out a few days ago. < 1236697611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bloat your PATH < 1236697616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know < 1236697620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is that you gobo < 1236697626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I track llvm svn though < 1236697637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install(DIRECTORY include < 1236697637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DESTINATION . < 1236697639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN ".svn" EXCLUDE < 1236697641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN "*.cmake" EXCLUDE < 1236697643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN "*.in" EXCLUDE < 1236697645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1236697655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they fixed it then I guess < 1236697658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.dsource.org/projects/ldc/ does have installation instructions for llvm too, just in case you're making life too difficult for yourself < 1236697670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how do you set cmake options? < 1236697674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236697678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ccmake < 1236697683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a nice ncurses gui < 1236697683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I want to enable PIC, optimized, and 3-jobs-at-once < 1236697685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easiest way < 1236697691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it allow me to configure parallel builds? < 1236697720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well cmake/ccmake generates Makefiles, so you would use make -j12357687 or whatever after < 1236697723 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236697733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236697751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks fondly of his dead netcc project < 1236697763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, -j) < 1236697775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea if llvm's cmake build system properly handles -j. I mean, I cmake itself handles -j fine in my experience, but some projects manage to break it < 1236697783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the issue is verifying that the objects aren't tampered with) < 1236697806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bandwidth < 1236697811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could compile a local copy then and compare ;) < 1236697837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nahh, object files are only like 1mb < 1236697841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be for huge projects like kde < 1236697859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where expending the bandwidth in exchange for massively parallel builds makes sense < 1236697880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading a megabyte can well take longer than compiling an object file of that size < 1236697885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... sending that over internet would be slow. Consider that for distcc you have to have gbit ethernet for it to be useful in practise < 1236697893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on how many C++ templates it uses... < 1236697899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys ever compiled kde? :P < 1236697931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Gentoo. I use KDE < 1236697934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1236697954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't compiled KDE 4 though < 1236697957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only kde3 < 1236697996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmake should only allow you to compile it with cmake < 1236698022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. cmake is like automake. It generates makefiles < 1236698030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that made no sense < 1236698034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it did. < 1236698046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be an EULA forbidding you from distributing the resulting makefiles < 1236698107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236698164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc autoconf/automake generated files have a "as a special exception you may distribute this generated file with non-GPL software using auto* build system" < 1236698167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1236698287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ccmake gives me no option to enable optimized < 1236698298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try t for advanced options? < 1236698304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is project that defines option < 1236698311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236698314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build type may be relevant < 1236698318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they use that? < 1236698320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1236698386 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i read a input (stdin) with ~ - how can i check when i am finished - so check for eof < 1236698390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ENABLE_OPTIMIZED=ENABLE_OPTIMIZED=1 < 1236698391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236698393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from configure < 1236698416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no OPTIMIZED in cmakelists < 1236698428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Did you read the specs? < 1236698440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are multiple included files < 1236698476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing related < 1236698482 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1236698484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236698490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strange. I don't know < 1236698555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/f6c5066346672b00 <-- 346 users, gee! that deserves a group! < 1236698564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, their irc channel is on irc.oftc.net < 1236698566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlisp doesn't even have lexical variables :-D < 1236698574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm I mean < 1236699024 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just not so sure about catching it if its acting like an r - only with w? < 1236699167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: #v~ where the v leads to the error/EOF condition < 1236699173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For instance) < 1236699421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer justified type only looks good to people who like straight edges on their blocks but don’t bother to read the text inside them. " http://hellbox.org/archives/001566.html < 1236699564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This well-documented open-source algorithm was only finalized in 1982, of course, so it's silly to ask Amazon to do equally well today. < 1236699578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236699743 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236700114 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236700231 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236700265 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236700342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236700447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one thing though: This is for their ebook reader right? I don't know how powerful it is, but the TeX algorithm is not that fast, though I read that thanks to dynamic programming it isn't too bad. For a complete book it could take a while on a low end device I guess.. < 1236700459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you pre-render it, duh < 1236700487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I was writing that, but you finished your line first < 1236700497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type faster you hobo < 1236700528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway Plain TeX algorithm isn't that good. pdftex has some optional enhancements that are really nice < 1236700540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats that awful algorithm on the page < 1236700544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the package microtype to enable them < 1236700558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, an incredibly easy way to solve this is to just have it ragged-right, which is easier on a screen anyway. < 1236700562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice. As usual for TeX there is a lot og good docs for it. < 1236700563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 computational cost! < 1236700572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you have to compute line breaks < 1236700580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, but that's trivial :P < 1236700581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I find straight margins easier on screen too < 1236700594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if done properly < 1236700608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the margins in that example you linked I agree ragged would have been better < 1236700637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's generally well-known that ragged-right is easier on a screen, might not be for you but you're weird. < 1236700663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm. Well depends on what sort of text < 1236700694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes man uses monotype + straight margins < 1236700699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the fast majority of text I've read has been ragged-right on a computer for a huge portion of my life may have something to do with it < 1236700709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, man doing that enrages me to no end < 1236700713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(isn't it technically troff that does that?) < 1236700718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result isn't good IMO, but better than the kindle thing < 1236700726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if troff has an option to turn it off < 1236700731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well probably. Or one of the other programs that troff invokes < 1236700734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly < 1236700876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe in your mandoc format definition? On my system that is in /usr/share/groff/current/tmac/andoc.tmac < 1236700881 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com" < 1236700887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah andoc... -m andoc -> -mandoc ... go figure < 1236700899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, like the ubygems trick < 1236700924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? rubygems is some package manager for ruby right? < 1236700932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what needs -r ubygems ? < 1236700936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rubygems < 1236700946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to require rubygems before you can use rubygems packages < 1236700951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for various ugly reasons) < 1236700953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby has -r for require < 1236700961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they made ubygems.rb `require "rubygems"` < 1236700969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know about libiberty? Well -liberty is the link command... GNU people... < 1236700974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236700985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libibido < 1236700992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how that sounds when you pronounce it < 1236700995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libibibibibido < 1236701005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236701015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andoc doesn't contain the word "margin" anyway < 1236701024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case insensitive search < 1236701029 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I was again working on Asiecrypt < 1236701048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: .\" Load either an-old.tmac or doc.tmac. < 1236701052 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time it encrypts an image into random gibberish and can still decode it < 1236701056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't say that here... < 1236701062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a BSD thing. < 1236701080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doc.tmac has the 3-clause BSD license < 1236701084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an-old is GPL 2 < 1236701093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it does: "Either load doc.tmac or an-old.tmac" < 1236701094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.de set-an-margin < 1236701094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. nr an-margin \\n[IN] < 1236701096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236701098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god I have troff! < 1236701100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate < 1236701115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the syntax isn't that far from TeX one < 1236701118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just worse < 1236701132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can read tex because its names aren't all meaningless 2-character gibberish with \s and .s everywhere < 1236701153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look. This saves bytes. Remember /usr/share is limited in size. Or was. < 1236701154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslog-ng uses the libol.a library to get "-lol"; I don't think the "ol" meant especially anything there. < 1236701186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some mature humor < 1236701203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1236701207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it doesn't seem to be intentional < 1236701209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the google < 1236701212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236701228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what software has libibido? < 1236701231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1236701244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i presume some kind of open source porn viewer would utilize it somehow < 1236701245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? there is no package for it < 1236701249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236701250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it doesn't exist < 1236701253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made it up < 1236701258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and apparently nowadays: "I moved to using glib instead of libol, as glib is more mature and provides several nice & easy to use features." < 1236701258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236701259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe GHC could use libambda when it gets proper shared object support < 1236701261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. there's an mm.tmac < 1236701262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmm < 1236701266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1236701267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1236701284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -mm ? I think that exists. I have a m.tmac here... < 1236701288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it is for < 1236701289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an mm.tmac. < 1236701292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as m.tmac < 1236701293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmm < 1236701333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both < 1236701393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will also need to check /etc/man.conf or something like that for what -m is actually used < 1236701407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man_db.conf on some systems. And no idea on OS X < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TROFF /usr/bin/groff -Tps -mandoc < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NROFF /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1236701449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Right-margin justification is turned off for the mm macros." < 1236701463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1236701469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at mm.tmac < 1236701478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" mm.tmac < 1236701478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" < 1236701479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.do mso m.tmac < 1236701484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236701487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is include I guess < 1236701490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236701495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so look at m.tmac < 1236701500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1236701504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mandoc.tmac includes andoc.tmac < 1236701511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" paragraph type < 1236701511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 0 == left-justified < 1236701512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 1 == indented .P < 1236701514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 2 == indented .P except after .H, .DE or .LE. < 1236701516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr Pt 0 < 1236701518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nr is a variable < 1236701521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.P < 1236701527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange similey < 1236701534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley* < 1236701547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ this is just painful < 1236701561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes roff is < 1236701572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least, teco would have been worse < 1236701595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw, teco is obscure but not much more than, say, befunge < 1236701599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it has short commands < 1236701606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this is a syntactic clusterfuck < 1236701610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well roff has short commands too < 1236701620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it's everything else that's the issue. < 1236701657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure what the other stuff is. I just know enogh *roff to write a simple man page. Which is far from that above. < 1236701709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, teco is pretty intuitive, actually < 1236701713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBhello.c < 1236701717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E means edit, B means with backups < 1236701724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two escapes terminates a command < 1236701738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P p means P-age it reads the first page of text in < 1236701740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236701756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think most languages seem easy/intuitive if you used them enough :P < 1236701758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHello0TT <- ESC obviously separates command arguments < 1236701760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S means search < 1236701776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what 0TT is, probably "print line 0" (with relative offsets) < 1236701782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know teco, but it seems simple enough to me < 1236701790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5DIGoodbye0TT < 1236701796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5D prints 5 characters backwards, obviously < 1236701801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that bf interpreter in TECO seem "simple enough" too? < 1236701802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1236701803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is ; < 1236701807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0TT just prints the current line < 1236701823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I is obviously insert < 1236701825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it prints the line < 1236701829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX < 1236701832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit < 1236701849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i get that the brainfuck interp looks complex, but actual editing seems basically like ed < 1236701853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @^UB#@S/{^EQQ,/#@^UC#@S/,^EQQ}/@-1S/{/#@^UR#.U1ZJQZ\^SC.,.+-^SXQ-^SDQ1J#@^U9/[]-+<>.,/<@:-FD/^N^EG9/;>J30000<0@I/ < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : />ZJZUL30000J0U10U20U30U60U7@^U4/[]/@^U5#<@:S/^EG4/U7Q7;-AU3(Q3-91)"=%1|Q1"=.U6ZJ@i/{/Q2\@i/,/Q6\@i/}/Q6J0;'-1%1' < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >#<@:S/[/UT.U210^T13^TQT;QT"NM5Q2J'>0UP30000J.US.UI<(0A-43)"=QPJ0AUTDQT+1@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-45)"=QPJ0AUTDQT-1@I// < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QIJ@O/end/'(0A-60)"=QP-1UP@O/end/'(0A-62)"=QP+1UP@O/end/'(0A-46)"=-.+QPA^T(-.+QPA-10)"=13^T'@O/end/'(0A-44)"=^TUT < 1236701856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8^TQPJDQT@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-91)"=-.+QPA"=QI+1UZQLJMRMB\-1J.UI'@O/end/'(0A-93)"=-.+QPA"NQI+1UZQLJMRMC\-1J.UI'@O/en < 1236701859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : d/'!end!QI+1UI(.-Z)"=.=@^a/END/^c^c'C> < 1236701861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that? < 1236701866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236701874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ugly, but I bet if you added newlines after command blocks it'd make sense < 1236701880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236701889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because it's all mushed together, and plus, using a text editor to implement brainfuck will never be pretty < 1236701893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disregarding things like elisp) < 1236701908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, elisp isn't pretty. < 1236701920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, but you can read a bf interp in it easily < 1236701932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisp itself is horrific < 1236701935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with all optional spaces/newlines removed? < 1236701945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with one letter names where possible < 1236701947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236701949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to install teco < 1236701953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :te(1) is an implementation of TECO in portable C. It implements DEC standard < 1236701953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO, with some exceptions and extensions described below. te assumes a < 1236701955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VT100-type terminal, and its display driver is hard-coded for such. < 1236701957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ < 1236701960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236701962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in macporst < 1236701963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236701966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macporst? < 1236701968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macports < 1236701978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-official os x package manager < 1236701982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some package maintainer gone insane < 1236701984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1236701994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomaintainer@macports.org is indeed insane < 1236702002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they let just about everything into their repos, which is nice < 1236702010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect debian to have it, if license is ok. Otherwise no distro < 1236702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO for Ultrix Matt Fichtenbaum February 27, 1987 < 1236702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : revised 7/17/89 < 1236702019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--documentation < 1236702025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you submit ports then? < 1236702026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to it < 1236702033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ask in #macports :P < 1236702035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to submit a rootkit named gcc < 1236702036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236702038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236702047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : backward paging in file (negative arguments to P, N, etc.) < 1236702049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under missing features < 1236702052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1236702058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sounds like more vs. less < 1236702058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't backwards paging, kind of < 1236702060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236702062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worthwhile? < 1236702063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful? < 1236702066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to implement? < 1236702070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compare more and less < 1236702074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more can't go back < 1236702076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but this is an editor :P < 1236702083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236702093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is teco, kind of < 1236702094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236702097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worthwhile? < 1236702099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful? < 1236702102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236702140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most DEC command languages interpreted the "MAKE filename" command as a command to start TECO and create the named filename. Many (most?) TECOs would respond to "MAKE LOVE" with the message "Not war?". At some TECO installation sites, the resulting file "LOVE" was considered a good-luck charm and was thus accorded heavy file protection (e.g., <777> under TOPS-10), never to be deleted. < 1236702141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what about dc code? < 1236702145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it hard to read? < 1236702148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, dc is just like underload really < 1236702157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with arithmetic, so even easier < 1236702203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have seen dc programs that look about as confusing as the bf interpreter in TECO.. And I have seen readable ones. < 1236702210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written confusing ones too < 1236702215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and readable < 1236702228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was right < 1236702234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : terminates the command :D < 1236702236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is a nice calculator, but doing text processing in it is just stupid < 1236702238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and makes a new command line) < 1236702277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is buggy < 1236702303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-dc-704.html <-- that isn't too bad. But I have seen much worse < 1236702375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian bug report 298432 -- http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=298432 -- is someone requesting TECO, but it never happened. < 1236702495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Jannis Harder? that's jix < 1236702511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236702516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the writer of that 99bob < 1236702520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236702528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see. Didn't know < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a silly idea... < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ==1234== 99 bytes in 1 blocks are still reachable in loss record 1 of 99 < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ==1234== 98 bytes in 1 blocks are still reachable in loss record 2 of 99 < 1236702638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that :D < 1236702645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1236702655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the same of course. But a parody < 1236702659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the worst type < 1236702660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1236702677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 99 bottles of valgrind < 1236702677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236702695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiee < 1236702708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a case of making a leaky enough program that generates the output you want < 1236702739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how much interest do you think there would be in a precise, generational, parallel and concurrent (i.e., the GC uses multiple threads, and runs in parallel with the mutator) GC? < 1236702760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's kind of rhetorical, there's huge demand for that < 1236702763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it also gives good performance: A *LOT* < 1236702775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236702779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on for what language/vm < 1236702782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that exactly what's happening with GHC soon/now? < 1236702785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pluggable < 1236702791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would it work for C? < 1236702792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ghc's gc still pauses threads < 1236702793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. somebody was working on it < 1236702799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't make a precise GC for C < 1236702800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, currently < 1236702802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible < 1236702803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly. < 1236702810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for what language/vm then? < 1236702813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it may be possible to plug in some stuff to make it conservative < 1236702814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236702816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pluggable < 1236702818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236702825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you set off some defines for your language and you're done < 1236702838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean one GC that you can plug into java, .NET, ocaml, ghc and so on? < 1236702840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236702846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like impossible < 1236702847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have to modify their implementation to do it, of course < 1236702851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236702864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll just need some functions like heap traversal etc < 1236702885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a GC for a single assignment language can take advantage of some extra stuff iirc < 1236702891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may misremember that < 1236702912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to basically optimize it for Scheme. < 1236702930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., not all-out-imperative, but not purely-functional, strict, high-level < 1236702943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should cover a wide range of other languages < 1236702955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. most modern scripting languages like perl, python, ruby < 1236703088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236703096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems valgrind sorts so largest leak is last < 1236703282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: woo, I've sussed basic editing with teco < 1236703290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/xstfyhfbfciqpr6yqkuhvw < 1236703303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be evident how it works from that session < 1236703329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S puts the cursor right after the term) < 1236703335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the mid-line prompt after 0T < 1236703396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236703412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you use this as your main text editor now? < 1236703418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236703423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might use it where I would have used ed < 1236703428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tiny changes to system files) < 1236703436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tapping all the time is a bit annoying < 1236703614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % ls -lh `which teco` < 1236703614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x@ 1 root wheel 99K 10 Mar 15:39 /usr/local/bin/teco < 1236703615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % ls -lh `which ed` < 1236703617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 111K 10 Sep 02:06 /bin/ed < 1236703625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH TECO < 1236703675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ed is 49K here O_o < 1236703676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You appear to be a bot, I can't accept your paste. JS is now required to paste. < 1236703677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236703683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to use a pastebin ehird liked < 1236703687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LOL what pastebin? < 1236703691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i don't like the pastebins I link < 1236703693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use pastie < 1236703696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pastie.org < 1236703697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to find a fast one < 1236703699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the one < 1236703700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wait, really? < 1236703703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1236703707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb here I come! < 1236703709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1236703713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is amazingly retarded. < 1236703720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using paste.lisp.org from now on. < 1236703730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the captcha thingy... < 1236703731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll write you a command-line paste.lisp.org paster, dammit :P < 1236703737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw http://rafb.net/p/1giASD62.html < 1236703744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly yes < 1236703760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://pastie.org/412847 ) < 1236703761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's great < 1236703776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should record it < 1236703780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds catchy. < 1236703785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. < 1236703785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proxy server could not handle the request GET /. < 1236703786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason: Error reading from remote server < 1236703788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--paste.lisp.org < 1236703790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1236703802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:47 Deewiant: /bin/ed is 49K here O_o < 1236703805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236703807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach-O binaries tend to have large overhead < 1236703820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, it's two binaries, isn't it? < 1236703831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236703837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's universa < 1236703838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236703885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach-Os can have code for multiple archs < 1236703892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1236703893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only the new Universal ones < 1236703904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal binary = marketing term for dual-arch mach-os < 1236703913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, great < 1236703947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC macs are probably going to be unsupported in 10.7 or so < 1236703975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll have been 5-6 years since you could buy a ppc mac < 1236704020 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m564d25c7 can someone give me a hint what i have to do to read a new char from stdin? i want to evaluate the first one, then print something and then read one again, but at this point the program quits < 1236704058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: <<< is pointless < 1236704060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need one < < 1236704064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll keep going that way < 1236704068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettier, though, I guess < 1236704078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue AnMaster saying it's slower < 1236704109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236704110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking that < 1236704115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: see neldoreth's paste < 1236704116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses << < 1236704120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AnMaster < 1236704120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see backlog. < 1236704125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236704126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1236704172 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but i can "draw something" :D < 1236704172 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should run back to the ~ in the left corner all the time < 1236704173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: it might be easier to use "a"- instead of 99*-44*- < 1236704188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposed new name for naive mark and sweep GCs: Racially discriminatory garbage collection < 1236704190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're using Befunge-98, 'a- < 1236704190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(white/black, geddit?) < 1236704204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://rafb.net/p/kpPckS27.html < 1236704229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now do it as a loop < 1236704232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also space is faster in ticks < 1236704234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(99bob only accepts looping submissions) < 1236704247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well hard, valgrind will merge the leak records then < 1236704252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://pastie.org/private/iv4m2aemernoywywhfy2nq ) < 1236704254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just loop in cpp < 1236704255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ it doesn't print the actual lyrics < 1236704255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, exactly that's what I said you'd say < 1236704258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99bob has been done in CPP < 1236704263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm true < 1236704273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Your logic seems strange < 1236704280 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left top box in the middle checks if the input is an a, the right top one if its an b - the lower boxes are just printing something < 1236704282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd probably be accepted if you explained why it's as close as you can get in valgrind < 1236704289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you might prefer <<< if you want to sync threads < 1236704299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since space take no ticks < 1236704306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one in strings < 1236704312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Or no, wait, you quit if you don't get an 'a' or 'b' < 1236704334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #define G(n) void l ## n (){for(int i=0;i.< < 1236707394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236707404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pass a shell function something like "a b", it can just use $1 instead of "$1", right? < 1236707510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so. < 1236707533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my shell script just lost 500KB of quotes :P < 1236707589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.nopaste.com/ < 1236707594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads really fast < 1236707599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues writing script < 1236707620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a delete button? < 1236707628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be IP-based. < 1236707640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's for the "oh shit I just pasted my password" < 1236707641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case < 1236707660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no bash highlight? < 1236707669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, it does lack highlights < 1236707672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C highlight would work for bash < 1236707680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not well in my experience < 1236707725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1236707728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1236708223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp.paste.org has no bash hgihlighting, actually < 1236708227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whch is a shame but oh well, who cares < 1236708431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, the captcha is gone! < 1236708436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1236708437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only does it once per IP < 1236708437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236708444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookie iirc < 1236708449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236708457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236708460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the captcha is css < 1236708461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an image < 1236708467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236708470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236708484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' < 1236708486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't select it... hm < 1236708486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how infuriating. < 1236708494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use the xml-rpc, but meh. < 1236708502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236708515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a table? < 1236708525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a div < 1236708530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236708550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% curl -s http://paste.lisp.org/|grep captcha < 1236708551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >)(elt(]())>))(](<)(do-external-symbols(] :cl)(push ] <))(sort < 1236712018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have: hex a < 1236712018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<`string<`:key`string))(}({ + ^)({`816`1/5)({`688({`875({`398()"~{~A~^ < 1236712020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~}"(]())){(+ { +)))({`381)^))(do*(({`5248({`584 }`36063))([`874({`395 < 1236712022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{`6))(]`4({`584 {`6))(}`#36RH4G6HUTA1NVC1ZHC({`395 }`36063)))((} [ ] < 1236712024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({`977 ]))({`902)({`381)))) < 1236712025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236712026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ a janlh, < 1236712027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's pretty < 1236712028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program < 1236712032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: run it in a common lisp interpreter < 1236712048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1236712054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :janlh < 1236712054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure I want to. could be overwrite files or whatever < 1236712058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't. < 1236712062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise. < 1236712064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what does it do? < 1236712067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I'm the last person to do something like that < 1236712071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know japh programs? < 1236712073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just another perl hacker) < 1236712075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those. < 1236712078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1236712082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember details < 1236712090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they print out "Just another perl hacker," < 1236712093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the most obscure way possible < 1236712094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236712122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, by the way, this one works by searching through all standard common lisp names, finding one with the most consecutive characters to output next, and outputs it < 1236712124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then repeats < 1236712144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236712153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, is that a dead pixel on my screen? < 1236712158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wipe it off. < 1236712168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't most screens have 1-2 or so? < 1236712178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has had none. < 1236712181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236712184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1236712185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably just some dust or something < 1236712203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a new one < 1236712206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it has them but it's in some obscure corner where I never look < 1236712211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dpi is high enough that i'd probably never notice < 1236712215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this one is in a particularly annoying place < 1236712230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1236712247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. Over my name in the nick list. Could be no worse place ;P < 1236712253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, on my IRC input line, which is white-backgrounded, so it stands out a lot. < 1236712270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all going to plan I'll be replacing this monitor soon, anyway, so no great loss ... < 1236712283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the good thing with black terminals :P < 1236712292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the one good thing < 1236712294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't see the dead pixels as much < 1236712318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I also find it easier to read white on black... < 1236712341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's nicer < 1236712352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish books were printed that way < 1236712363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be true if you used the computer a lot at night; but I hate the dark (it depresses me) so I optimize for daylight < 1236712406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no that wouldn't work as well, Screen and print are different < 1236712416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's oklopol < 1236712421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd find a way to make it work. < 1236712438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love white on black it on print too < 1236712443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually tried, anmy? < 1236712452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high quality paper too, since ink would otherwise saturate it badly < 1236712456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so does lisppaste(1) work for you? < 1236712467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh *tests* < 1236712474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make sure to set LISPPASTE_USER < 1236712481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably want to do that in .profile or whatever < 1236712557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does < 1236712572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you see http://common-lisp.net/project/lisppaste/xml-rpc.html btw? < 1236712579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236712584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but xml-rpc is a hideous protocol < 1236712588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd have to escape XML < 1236712593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok good point < 1236712712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you use curl? < 1236712719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has tcp support... < 1236712727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236712730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ;P < 1236712733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also fucking write it in dd/sh but I won't :P < 1236712744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dd/sh = use only shell builtins and dd) < 1236712758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you open network connection then? < 1236712761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp < 1236712766 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236712767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that is a bash extension < 1236712770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236712772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1236712774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a shell builtin < 1236712775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://select.intercal.org.uk/dd.sh/ < 1236712790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp is a bash extension afaik? < 1236712796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236712798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236712801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a BASH builtin < 1236712805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236712810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a file be a builtin? < 1236712814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is dd/bash, not dd/sh < 1236712819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :P < 1236712820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed it isn't < 1236712824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, dd.sh uses files < 1236712828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the commands that are restricted < 1236712831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I decided to ignore it to avoid confusion < 1236712833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi ais523 < 1236712840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: today I compiled a TECO port for unix < 1236712845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually quite usable < 1236712857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was the main editor around for ages < 1236712860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I wrote 99 bottles of valgrind < 1236712862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't expect it to be unusual < 1236712863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it isn't perfect yet < 1236712867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what, how? < 1236712875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unusable < 1236712877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not the actual song lyrics exactly < 1236712881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you using it as an interactive or batch editor? < 1236712885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but a joke on it < 1236712888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interactive < 1236712895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commands are basically like ed < 1236712896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more intuitive < 1236712898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I said it < 1236712898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.nopaste.com/p/a1S6eQHnp < 1236712901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO is easier than ed. < 1236712930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I plan to avoid the _ thing by doing something like: $(for i in {0..99};do echo -n | cpp -traditional -Da$i="r($i)a$((i+1))"; done | sed '^/|//') < 1236712933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly < 1236712935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar < 1236712954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sounds great < 1236712954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need quoting < 1236712959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should learn it < 1236712962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, I'll give you a transcript URL < 1236712982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/private/xstfyhfbfciqpr6yqkuhvw < 1236712986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopaste.com? < 1236712989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that at one point, I get a * prompt in the middle of the line < 1236712990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what do you think of that program? < 1236712991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236713013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a memory-leak 99 bottles of beer? < 1236713024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is safe to run. I assume you have valgrind < 1236713028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you use a loop? writing all 99 bottles by hand is cheating < 1236713031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have valgrind < 1236713035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I plan to loop < 1236713039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in cpp < 1236713043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've only just sat down and already people are trying to make me do everything at once < 1236713051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't call same function, valgrind merges backtraces < 1236713055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at mine first, it's cooler ;-) < 1236713058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't work without 99 different functions < 1236713064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what if you call it from 99 different contexts? < 1236713069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, $ there is how is printed < 1236713078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two escapes terminate a line < 1236713078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind doesn't merge different callstacks < 1236713079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. That would still need 99 code paths right? < 1236713082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one escape terminates a variadic command (like insert (I)) < 1236713085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be about same < 1236713100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 99 codepaths you can do with just 2 functions < 1236713108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if those functions are both directly recursive and mutually recursive < 1236713122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd need to increase the context depth a bit in valgrind < 1236713123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err valgrind *does* merging between 8 calls backwards < 1236713124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236713134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not exactly the same < 1236713145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can choose the number of stack entries that have to match < 1236713146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes true < 1236713155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1236713155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, 99 < 2 to the power 7 < 1236713167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-239.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236713186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does newline do in TECO, by the way? < 1236713205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would that work out... *thinks* < 1236713208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that all the unprintable characters do something < 1236713209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not interpreted specially, so it just keeps waiting for input < 1236713210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not what < 1236713212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do: < 1236713215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihello, < 1236713216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world!$$ < 1236713220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert multiple lines < 1236713222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean aaab, aaba and so on? < 1236713225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like ed, really < 1236713234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, what else < 1236713251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well right, need to work out how to figure out what to call when < 1236713251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think TECO's a worthy ancestor to both Emacs and vi < 1236713256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed was clearly inspired by it < 1236713261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vi descended from ed < 1236713262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to do some modulo tricks < 1236713263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236713268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Emacs was originally written in TECO < 1236713269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi was descended from ex < 1236713273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was descended from ed < 1236713273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1236713275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure < 1236713276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236713296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % teco < 1236713296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Elliott Hird$$ < 1236713298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?NYI Not yet implemented < 1236713303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not yet implemented :( < 1236713307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236713314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that implementation needs work? < 1236713324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just isn't 100% complete :P < 1236713351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding out what your name does in TECO used to be a common thing for people to figure out < 1236713353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a course in mathematica < 1236713357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO! < 1236713365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but running and checking is cheating < 1236713367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams receding into the distance < 1236713369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to work it out *first* < 1236713370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236713372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1236713379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you notice messages, please? < 1236713383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in reply to oklopol < 1236713383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:29 oklopol has a course in mathematica < 1236713387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236713387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1236713391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also you copied that from wikipedia < 1236713398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, me doing that? < 1236713399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523, wolfram prize, mathematica, hates, memory working yet? < 1236713404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the TECO name thing < 1236713411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236713412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236713414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen it before, possibly in the jargon file < 1236713421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still the reaction seems like a strange joke < 1236713433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't even have to use uppercase with teco < 1236713438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's case insensitive < 1236713477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1236713521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's crazy: it reacts to all the control codes, but doesn't distinguish lowercase/uppercase? < 1236713525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just realised why < 1236713526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, most ASCII does nothing since TECO had a more restrictive character set < 1236713534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO was probably invented before lowercase on computers was < 1236713539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP-10 < 1236713550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is literally the case that every string of characters is a valid TECO program" < 1236713552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, um, no. < 1236713558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point: I get errors. < 1236713575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''Initially, if I remember correctly, EMACS was Eugene Ciccarelli's init file which made use of MIT TECO's ^R mode ("Realtime") that repainted the screen. RMS started hacking on it around '76 I think and it kind of, um, grew." < 1236713581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, rms didn't start emacs. < 1236713597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236713609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I don't think so < 1236713613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Emacs was only one implementation < 1236713622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1236713626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the first. < 1236713629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally just EMACS < 1236713640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just saying that he originally forked it from someone else's init file :D < 1236713660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were others, I even came across a rather primitive one years ago, for DOS < 1236713660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisp is specific to GNU Emacs and its derivatives, though I think < 1236713670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for DOS? < 1236713673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's recent < 1236713675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking the 70s < 1236713680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you understand what I am saying < 1236713681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about finding out which order to call, what would be the best way? I'm thinking of some sort of depth counter combined with the number counter < 1236713698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common knowledge: RMS started emacs. Funny anecdote: It was originally a fork of someone else's init file. < 1236713737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just use a decrementing int < 1236713740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and check its bit pattern < 1236713749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you don't even need to do that < 1236713760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void a() {a(); b();} < 1236713764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void b() {b(); a();} < 1236713773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert parameters and some bottoming-out condition to taste < 1236713773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would mean 99 calls < 1236713785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1236713802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a depth of half each? < 1236714049 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236714308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mymacro=$(a=$(for i in {1..99};do echo -n "|cpp -P -traditional -Da$i=\"r($i)a$((i+1))\" - "; done | sed 's/|//'); echo "a1" | eval "$a" | tail -n1); echo $mymacro < 1236714317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think that is a much more promising way < 1236714323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, though < 1236714330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well just echo out valgrind's output < 1236714335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what language you declare it is in? < 1236714368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generates the macro expansion in question < 1236714378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, a recursive variant is another one < 1236714619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and here's a program that done paste stuff. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76773 < 1236714633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tip: export LISPPASTE_USER.) < 1236714648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, those cases look like ocaml. < 1236714687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, an autopaste script < 1236714690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you said that < 1236714698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't quite sure, given that you mentioned a pastebin later on the line < 1236714700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster refused to use another pastebin with one, so. :P < 1236714709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236714711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you were referring to that it did pasting, or that you were pasting < 1236714715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236714716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$Iout$$ < 1236714732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh god help I'm a teco user) < 1236714732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1236714766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's shorter than the corresponding regex < 1236714767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet almost no one will understand the teco implication < 1236714772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/with/\&out/ < 1236714784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... it looks quite similar to sed < 1236714797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236714823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what if you want a literal I there? < 1236714829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put one in. < 1236714835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ () is the command terminator < 1236714835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that look? < 1236714845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Swith$IouIt$$ < 1236714849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236714856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands like S and I take up to the next < 1236714858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be same as: s/with/Iout/ < 1236714859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236714862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouIt. < 1236714869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S and I are commands, they read along until < 1236714871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what if I want that line < 1236714874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$IouIt$$ < 1236714875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236714881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(with); I(ouIt); < 1236714890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then: < 1236714892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$IIout$$ < 1236714897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236714899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that work < 1236714911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236714912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236714914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it? < 1236714918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236714920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as you hit an I it reads until < 1236714921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know teco < 1236714929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but I just told you < 1236714931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a bit like Lua < 1236714933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple times < 1236714936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that Lua starts blocks lots of different ways < 1236714938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what no it isn't < 1236714939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends them all with end < 1236714942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236714943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of... < 1236714950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO's the same, it starts commands with lots of different chars, but all end with < 1236714958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no < 1236714963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only commands that take text input < 1236714965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, < 1236714965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1236714965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the $ means an escape. So when you write it in a teco script is it $ or ? < 1236714969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5DIhello$$ < 1236714973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's and echos as $ < 1236714978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D takes -5 *before* it < 1236714983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning 'delete the previous 5 characters' < 1236714987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoing as a literal escape character would be confusing for your terminal < 1236714988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236714995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you input as < 1236714995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: very vi < 1236715007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if you want to edit a teco script? replacing in it? < 1236715007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can even do < 1236715007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236715008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually, all the teco-inspired editors retained that feature in some form < 1236715012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-5$$ < 1236715014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*D$$ < 1236715018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it has a stack < 1236715022 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236715026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: TECO is not only TC < 1236715030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /deliberately/ TC < 1236715030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, emacs does \e right? < 1236715032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1236715036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work like that < 1236715038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err? < 1236715039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to put it right before < 1236715046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal escape in emacs is C-q ESC < 1236715047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for escapes < 1236715051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the file < 1236715062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1236715065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it appears as ^] in the file < 1236715071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in red, rather than the usual colour, if you have colour on < 1236715077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236715078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ^[ < 1236715081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't copy paste from emacs < 1236715085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does something strange < 1236715090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the escapes < 1236715107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I see ^?ELF^B ..... ^@\250 and such < 1236715114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it does both ^ and \ < 1236715124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to escape non-printable < 1236715128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, \ is for characters with codes over 126 < 1236715142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help < 1236715144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[abc < 1236715150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a literal esc at the start of the line < 1236715155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's the TECO I use: http://almy.us/teco.html < 1236715166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the linux version, not the unix one < 1236715178 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236715182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, there isn't normally that much of a difference < 1236715185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy tecoc, teco, Make, and inspect into your PATH < 1236715191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can start it with 'teco' < 1236715198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no make install script? < 1236715201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236715208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, teco/Make/inspect are symlinks < 1236715208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tecoc < 1236715213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tip: to exit, try "EX$$" < 1236715224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the it need a special linux version? < 1236715233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the UNIX is for old unixes < 1236715235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236715238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: many old UNIX programs needed changing when ported to Linux < 1236715238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urix or something < 1236715246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use linux one on macosx? < 1236715249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc vs. bison is one of the most common sticking points < 1236715254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236715256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use the os x one on os x < 1236715264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although don't copy over Make since HFS+ is case insensitive < 1236715269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use 'tecoc make') < 1236715274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you use on OS9? < 1236715276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1236715286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /usr/bin/yacc --version < 1236715286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: /usr/bin/yacc [-dlrtv] [-b file_prefix] [-p symbol_prefix] filename < 1236715291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yacc is still bison in yacc compatibility mode < 1236715292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this one is so old all the filenames are INUPPERCASE.C < 1236715294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /usr/bin/yacc.bison --version < 1236715294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bison (GNU Bison) 2.3 < 1236715296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on most linux systems < 1236715297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why then that < 1236715303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain those two lines < 1236715315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's possible you have a genuine old copy of yacc lying around somewhere < 1236715316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-Dec-1987 version 100 < 1236715316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baseline version as of Fall Decus Symposium, Anaheim < 1236715319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236715325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are they really C++? that would be so great if they disguised the extension like that < 1236715325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a modern port to portable C, and yet it's still ancient < 1236715329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236715330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236715341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dev-util/yacc is from http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/#yacc installed as a dependency of something < 1236715347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION follows url < 1236715359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236715362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dinosaur.compilertools sounds like a good description for original yacc < 1236715364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no download there, huh < 1236715379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOMEPAGE="http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/#yacc" < 1236715379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRC_URI="ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/devel/compiler-tools/${P}.tar.Z" < 1236715380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL build used to fail on SunOS because it needed directives to tell lex to increase the size of its internal buffers < 1236715382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236715384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1236715387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't bison anyway < 1236715410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I was saying was, on most linux systems with a program called yacc, it's a wrapper around bison < 1236715416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours just happens to be different < 1236715418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :${P} is replaced with yacc-1.9.1 < 1236715435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah that wrapper is /usr/bin/yacc.bison < 1236715447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ yacc --help < 1236715449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bison generates parsers for LALR(1) grammars. < 1236715451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you don't < 1236715455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236715456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ehird thought I didn't < 1236715462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i didn't < 1236715471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you replying to then? < 1236715474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file /etc/alternatives/yacc < 1236715475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you upgrade your freaking brain firmware, it runs on DOS and is unable to multithread conversations < 1236715475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/alternatives/yacc: symbolic link to `/usr/bin/bison.yacc' < 1236715480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file /usr/bin/yacc < 1236715481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/yacc: symbolic link to `/etc/alternatives/yacc' < 1236715495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 ais523: ehird: what do you use on OS9? < 1236715495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 AnMaster: ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 ehird: you don't < 1236715500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I was talking about teco at the time < 1236715503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck do you think? < 1236715504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: what do you use on OS9? you don't < 1236715506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236715511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes even less sense < 1236715515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236715520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yacc seems to be in debian alternatives < 1236715525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two types of arguments: numeric arguments, and text arguments. Numeric arguments come before the command; text arguments come after the command. < 1236715526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting < 1236715528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1236715529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies strongly to me that debian have a non-bison yacc in the repos somewhere < 1236715560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alternatively (and easier to read), if the command is prefixed by an "@" character, then the first character after the command is the delimiter, and the string will continue until the next instance of that character. < 1236715561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about byacc? < 1236715563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/hello world/ < 1236715568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236715570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@I/hello world/ < 1236715576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, that appears to be BSD yacc < 1236715577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236715584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just did apt-cache search yacc | grep yacc < 1236715589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dickey.his.com/byacc/byacc.html < 1236715591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that too < 1236715594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it case-insensitive just in case < 1236715623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev-util/btyacc - http://www.siber.com/btyacc - Backtracking YACC - modified from Berkeley YACC < 1236715624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth? < 1236715626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@eb"hello.c" <- practically modern. < 1236715629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :masked on amd64 < 1236715632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean wth? < 1236715635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yacc that can backtrack < 1236715637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when parsing < 1236715655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, but that is crazy < 1236715660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not? < 1236715674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, you can use them as variables: each Q-register stores a string and an integer. Second, any string stored in a Q-register can be used as a subroutine; in fact, that's the only way to create a subroutine. < 1236715677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl, is that you? < 1236715679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, original yacc never backtracks < 1236715684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236715687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bison doesn't either < 1236715692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'yacc that can backtrack' = modified yacc < 1236715695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can handle general grammars, but it does that a different way < 1236715699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooooo < 1236715705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why would you want a backtracking yacc... < 1236715709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my question < 1236715709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I noticed, your sentence was ambiguous < 1236715715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you have a nondeterministic grammar to process? < 1236715734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok. Like intercal right? < 1236715739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236715746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any other such languages? < 1236715759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular INTERCAL can just about be handled by regular yacc, but only due to a restriction in the INTERCAL-72 standard specifically to make that possible < 1236715769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1236715770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ and Perl both have similar parsing problems < 1236715775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236715780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes? < 1236715784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl has BEGIN < 1236715787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about C++? < 1236715793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I hung teco < 1236715804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I found a really diabolical line of C++ in the FQA, let me dig it up < 1236715806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: parsing C++ is turing complete < 1236715809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to templates < 1236715810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being TC < 1236715820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*^UZIhello$$ < 1236715820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MZ$$ < 1236715821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236715832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that proves compilation is turing complete, not parsing < 1236715839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's parsing < 1236715841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to typename stuff < 1236715842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it happens, though, the compilation can affect the parsing, making it turing complete too < 1236715844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1236715847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a template can make something a typename that wasn't < 1236715850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that parsing is TC, but you didn't explain the reason < 1236715852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it IS due to templates < 1236715864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x = confusing::q < 3 > (2); < 1236715871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236715879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can actually parse differently depending on the return of sizeof, with appropriate definitions < 1236715887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, iirc you have to use "typename" in front in ambiguous situations < 1236715896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236715904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/web-vs-c++.html for the full program < 1236715911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236715938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, TECO has as an insertion command < 1236715941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like I but puts a tab in front < 1236715941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236715947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Iint main(void) {$$ < 1236715957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* printf("Hello, world!\n"); < 1236715960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236715961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ < 1236715966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* return 0;$$ < 1236715969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I}$$ < 1236715970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1236715987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does it autoindent? < 1236715992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1236715997 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236716003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TC, shouldn't be too hard to implement < 1236716045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to write a TECO hello world, with TECO: < 1236716047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% tecoc make hello.tec < 1236716047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I^AHello, world! < 1236716049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^A$$ < 1236716051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*EX$$ < 1236716060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does tecoc do? < 1236716068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco compiler? < 1236716070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: teco-c is the implementation < 1236716074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236716075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco and inspect are linked to it < 1236716076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also Make < 1236716076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236716079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but HFS+ is case insensitive < 1236716082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't use that symlink < 1236716088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of, y'know, make(1)) < 1236716092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to invoke the implementation directly. < 1236716096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: HFS+ is optionally case-sensitive < 1236716099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's configurable < 1236716103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that breaks things and I'd have to reformat < 1236716109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I like it this way < 1236716113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how much chaos it would caused if you changed the configuration param while there were files on it < 1236716143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I like the description of the mac os x version of teco < 1236716150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it was aimed at you in particular < 1236716180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236716181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% tecoc make 42hello.tec < 1236716182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*42EX$$ < 1236716192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a teco program that prints "Hello, world!\n". 42 times. < 1236716209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, teco quine without opening the script to read from? < 1236716219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall pass. < 1236716222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1236716243 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1236716259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to explain my 42 program: < 1236716263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, ^A is a literal ^A < 1236716264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236716269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Afoo^A outputs foo < 1236716277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number<...> executes ... number times < 1236716280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX exits < 1236716284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, I inserts up to escape < 1236716285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's < 1236716298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 times { insert "^AHello, world!\n^A" }; exit < 1236716343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty good esolang, actually < 1236716348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of a text editor is a fun one to base an esolang around < 1236716380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mackerel Economics in Prison Leads to Appreciation for Oily Fillets < 1236716382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290720439096481.html < 1236716385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(injoke) < 1236716448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also < 1236716455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start teco after editing a file and quitting? < 1236716458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts editing it again < 1236716461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it sees the backup file < 1236716466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236716470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cat teco9054.tmp < 1236716470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42hello.tec < 1236716562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooo < 1236716563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236716671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523: ping < 1236716677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehird: pong < 1236716698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236716710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NACK < 1236716768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NAK < 1236716777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going to do that old joke, at least get it right... < 1236716787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't following any standard < 1236716801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April fool's day prank on programmer: Mess up internet connection configuration. Remove GUI configurators for it. Symlink all editors to teco. < 1236716848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/vim/hanoi < 1236716850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Towers of Vim. < 1236716855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/vim/mandelbrot < 1236716858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mandelvim < 1236716858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what, you'd have to uninstall bash too < 1236716872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, my GUI configurator is also the program that does the actual connection < 1236716874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh, just remove cat and echo. < 1236716886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, wait. < 1236716888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.se... oh my < 1236716892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: echo's a shell builtin, and bash has cat as a builtin too but with different syntax < 1236716892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp file /dev/stdout < 1236716901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Make teco their login shell. < 1236716916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the guy who wrote life.b < 1236716917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd go into single user mode from the bootloader if you tried that < 1236716923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see < 1236716931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also wonder how you got access to my computer < 1236716936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, april fool's jokes are reversible if you're a sourpuss, zomg, how revolutionary < 1236716938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1236716965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihello, world!$0T$$ < 1236716969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... reflex... < 1236716975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236716978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that * was a correction star < 1236716982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236716983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was trying to delete an excess space < 1236716983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the extra space < 1236716990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing else showed up < 1236717036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : April fool's day prank on programmer: Mess up internet connection configuration. Remove GUI configurators for it. Symlink all editors to teco. <-- what gui configurator? < 1236717055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, you people suck. < 1236717063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? < 1236717081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: seriously, though, given that for internet connection my configurator is the same program that actually handles the connection < 1236717098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then removing the configurator would mean that restoring the connection file by hand wouldn't help me < 1236717100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, ha ha, you are 1337 and do not have any programs that let you graphically configure your internet < 1236717101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is that program? < 1236717104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are such an awesome linux user < 1236717108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elite < 1236717110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nm-applet < 1236717111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u ownz b0xes < 1236717117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knetworkmanager atm < 1236717124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just use config_eth0=( "dhcp" ) < 1236717125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1236717126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236717136 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236717137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm-applet's broken for the specific sort of wireless the university has < 1236717150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's already been fixed in trunk, but for some reason they haven't sent out an update with the fixed version < 1236717157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I use knetworkmanager even on gnome atm < 1236717163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on my freebsd server it is more complex, it has a block of 8 statical IPs < 1236717169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1236717204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 1) using a GUI configurator on a server in a datacenter is just silly < 1236717214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) at home I just use dhcp < 1236717218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have a /29? < 1236717219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care, don't care, don't care < 1236717235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err probably, too lazy to calculate < 1236717278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with ehird when he realises how silly his comment was... < 1236717286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236717291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have seen this "don't care" pattern before < 1236717294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in similar cases < 1236717316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely you agree not using any GUI is sane on a remote server that you only have ssh access to? < 1236717321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just you made a shitty joke in response, i responded to it pointing out how shitty and old it was, then you went and blabbed on about your network which i honestly couldn't care less about if I possibly tried < 1236717331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could get kvm access... $20 / 12 hours < 1236717342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but would you try, for me? < 1236717355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe. < 1236717361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't making a joke < 1236717363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................................... < 1236717380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you found the . key < 1236717386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, ellipses have 3 .s < 1236717403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, and? < 1236717417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you have a really small ellipse and a crappy ellipse algo < 1236717454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and using eclipse to write it < 1236717465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl is written in C, so when the parser has figured out what you want to do, you're executing compiled code as fast as any C program. " < 1236717470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1236717477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was silly < 1236717478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wrote that? < 1236717481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where was that quote from? < 1236717486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did they have any clue how Perl works? < 1236717487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"samizdat" on perlmonks.org < 1236717488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this now?!? < 1236717506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's implemented internally as a bytecode compiler < 1236717507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1236717538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now where is that dd.sh page < 1236717622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it dd/sh? < 1236717641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://select.intercal.org.uk/dd.sh/ "dd/sh: The One True Programming Language" < 1236717642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1236717712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236717721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can do 'stty raw' with /dev of some sort < 1236717839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mackerel Economics in Prison Leads to Appreciation for Oily Fillets http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290720439096481.html (injoke) <-- yes obviously, so what is the context. The joke makes no sense to me < 1236717850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wouldn't, it's an injoke < 1236717851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I told you it would not be an injoke. < 1236717860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I won't tell you < 1236717866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you understand it? < 1236717873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does < 1236717893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you seem to be missing the fundamental nature of injokes, look it up < 1236717895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, `stty raw` uses ioctl, doesn't it? < 1236717920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. But I assumed ehird got the joke since he pasted it < 1236717944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1236717949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't facepalm very often < 1236717963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was be commenting on the fact that it was an injoke he didn't understand? < 1236717982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236717988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd give up round about now < 1236718056 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-83-206.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236718059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I fail to see why you wouldn't want to *explain* a injoke that you do understand. Since you pasted it in the public channel < 1236718086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if it were explained, it wouldn't be an injoke < 1236718099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would that be a huge loss? < 1236718111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236718119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236718146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are just being unreasonable... < 1236718381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing a TECO clone in dd/sh < 1236718390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run it under bash, you can use /dev/tcp to use it as a kind of netcat :D < 1236718402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait < 1236718406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use dd with /dev/tcp presumably < 1236718408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you specify the port number using /dev/tcp? < 1236718408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only pipes... < 1236718413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp/host/port < 1236718419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1236718440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's not quite dd/sh < 1236718440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save_state=$(stty -g) < 1236718441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stty raw < 1236718442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset_tty() { stty "$save_state" } < 1236718445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 non-dd/sh lines < 1236718452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run it without them, just need to hit newline a lot < 1236718458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd see your input twice < 1236718510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want dd output into /dev/tcp, you can obviously just omit the of= and > it in. < 1236718523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236718527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is of=x always equiv. to >x? < 1236718539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not if x is /dev/tcp. < 1236718543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236718555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be pretty different if x were /dev/tty, too < 1236718601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh you have to assign it first < 1236718606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec 3<>/dev/tcp/... < 1236718610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of using it as a file multi times < 1236718610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236718623 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236718766 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? what's dd/sh? < 1236718772 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language using dd and sh? < 1236718774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what else? < 1236718793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, it's the language created when you use sh and the only other program it's allowed to invoke is dd < 1236718808 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...The first person to make a miniature linux distro for dd/sh wins a copy of AsieCrypt, the only encrypter of images that can turn completely logical pictures into random gibberish and STILL decode it! < 1236718815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236718816 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will be the first person < 1236718818 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be... < 1236718818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I suppose, itself recursively, but you never need to do that < 1236718822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, that's not even possible < 1236718827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, it's uninteresting < 1236718833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for three, the prize is crap. < 1236718834 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if I had installed Linux < 1236718844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I suspect Debian webinstall plus dd would be enough to run arbitrary dd/sh programs < 1236718846 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, there are many Linux-on-a-floppy distros < 1236718853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he meant a linux distro with just kernel+dd/sh < 1236718858 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some drivers < 1236718859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is patently useless < 1236718860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what it's worth, you could even do that with Debian webinstall without the package manager, there's hardly anything in that < 1236718876 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, yes it is possible (AsieCrypt), it's just shifted colors and good ole VideoCrypt < 1236718879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wouldn't call it completely useless, although admittedly not particularly useful < 1236718883 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for three, the prize is crap, I admit < 1236718990 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236719006 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236719026 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think dd/sh would be turing complete pretty easily considering sh's capabilities < 1236719031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1236719033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh is turing complete < 1236719038 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236719038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need dd for non-trivial IO < 1236719043 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a turing machine for dd/sh < 1236719044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck style IO can be done with just sh < 1236719054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can trivially write brainfuck in sh < 1236719059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for file IO, etc, you need dd < 1236719060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1236719062 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trivially < 1236719065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't do substrings with sh < 1236719070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you do need dd for IO then < 1236719072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sh is tc < 1236719079 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcsh? < 1236719082 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need I/O for TC < 1236719087 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I did there < 1236719089 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236719090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: that's what i just SAID. < 1236719106 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do substrings with sh < 1236719107 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not easily < 1236719113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1236719118 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236719226 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is a reference for what standard sh allows? < 1236719241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1236719242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1236719246 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236719247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a full list < 1236719252 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has extras < 1236719260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1236719276 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. read -n 1 < 1236719296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that would actually remove the need for my stty stuff < 1236719321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: see if you can find a copy of POSIX floating aroung < 1236719323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*around < 1236719334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, man for most shells will explain the differences from standard sh in a portability section < 1236719357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can deduce the sh standard from that < 1236719489 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's possible in just sh to do substrings < 1236719493 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know a way? < 1236719499 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ehird: ass < 1236719503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236719508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, AFO. < 1236719537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut, "echo -n foo" is echoing "-n foo\n" < 1236719586 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236719686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.gizmodo.com/5167465/get-200-itunes-store-vouchers-for-260 < 1236719691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty cool. < 1236719717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... where's the code :D < 1236719813 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236719850 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236719855 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1236719865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A Pentium emulator (just for the fun of it - with that you don't actually need the perl5 interpreter as you can install Linux under the emulator and ruin perl from it; of course, that would also run sh and dd, therefore allowing any level of emulation). < 1236719867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236720025 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* To include only dd and sh, I would need to change BusyBox in some way < 1236720043 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* And that makes it completely worthless < 1236720052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: BusyBox is entirely configurable as-is < 1236720062 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can disable certain commands < 1236720064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it can be configured to only contain dd and sh < 1236720067 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, remove them at compile-time? < 1236720071 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, not only dd and sh < 1236720072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, at compile time < 1236720076 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would be fairly useless < 1236720079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've done custom busybox builds before < 1236720085 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need SOME commands to maintain it all < 1236720086 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp, mv < 1236720091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudoteco.sh: line 26: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1236720091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why cp? you have dd < 1236720092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf ;_; < 1236720103 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least cd! < 1236720109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unneeded < 1236720111 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1236720113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dd into /proc < 1236720115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: cd's a shell builtin < 1236720122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is dd and /proc and you can do anything < 1236720127 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sh < 1236720136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is it actually possible to change the current directory of a process by writing to its /proc? < 1236720146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change its in-memory binary to cd next < 1236720146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236720147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so love it if it were, although it seems unlikely < 1236720151 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox has way too much commands by default < 1236720160 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for this purpose < 1236720161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: you are missing the point of busybox, then < 1236720165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, dd is unneeded < 1236720169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is < 1236720185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1236720193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that < 1236720195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no wait < 1236720201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skips offset bytes of stdin < 1236720210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kitten an version of cat that only does part of the file? < 1236720211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then copies amount bytes from stdin to stdout < 1236720220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pretty much, but offset=0 and amount=-1 will copy all < 1236720220 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know, I just want a distro with dd, sh, and some misc. basic commands < 1236720226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is it standard, or obscure, or did you just invent the name? < 1236720232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: try debian webinstall < 1236720234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i invented it all < 1236720237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. The point of busybox is the point of having a statically linked rescue shell around... Hopefully you will never need it < 1236720244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the rest of dd is unneeded for 100% io facilities < 1236720248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains basically nothing but enough tools to make an internet connection, and a package manager < 1236720251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if/of can be done with pipes, and soforth < 1236720256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use the package manager to installdd < 1236720260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*install dd < 1236720287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd < < 1236720819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236720819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236720821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree FWIW < 1236720825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lines are not the fundamental unit of text < 1236720827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, would you say the same argument holds for filesystems? < 1236720829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not why not < 1236720830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't make sense < 1236720831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb -> < 1236720836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236720840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I agree too I think < 1236720843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you'd have to have a bignum file length. < 1236720844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236721356 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236721361 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236721369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's neldoreth? < 1236721430 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's ais523? < 1236721440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a regular here < 1236721450 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a new one (: < 1236721450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth was asking about Befunge earlier today < 1236721451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invented Underload, Thutu, BackFlip, and a few other esolangs < 1236721465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maintain C-INTERCAL < 1236721466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coding something for school, if I understood correctly the few lines I read < 1236721474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And remember them correctly < 1236721490 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we learned about c-intercal in the lecture, please < 1236721514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's rare for lectures to mention intercal < 1236721516 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i had a little assignment to do in a esoteric language < 1236721538 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could have chosen between it and brainfuck, befunge or whitespace < 1236721540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's any help, run your intercal programs with -byO and use the e command < 1236721551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll tell you what the expressions you write actually do < 1236721558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazingly useful if you actually have to use the things < 1236721601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that most other languages don't need a command to explain what an expression does, apart from C which has cdecl < 1236721611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's data types not expressions < 1236721614 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the advice - maybe i will try something out in intercal - but ive chosen befunge for my little program - maybe i will try more when there is more time for it < 1236721624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace is probably the easiest of those languages to use < 1236721628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal's probably the hardest there < 1236721634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is a good one to learn < 1236721638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't write it /in/ Whitespace < 1236721643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:45:19] yeah i had a little assignment to do in a esoteric language < 1236721645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1236721653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn a lot of programming from befunge, actually < 1236721659 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1236721663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1236721665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be what I'd go for < 1236721676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: RPN and stack-based representations, for one thing < 1236721687 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m1aa54e4e this is what ive done, nothing special and it nearly can do nothing (cause i honestly had no idea what to write) < 1236721689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly understanding how loops work, for another < 1236721702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I learned that working with a stack when you can only access the top two elements sucks < 1236721707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: that's pretty < 1236721756 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D but nothing more, sensless in every aspect :D < 1236721761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that program starts out by inputting a character and comparing it to capital A? < 1236721773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not capital < 1236721790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lowercase < 1236721799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I did 9*9-4*4 not 9*9+4*4 < 1236721808 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah with a and b or q < 1236721809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upper and lowercase A differ by 32, obviously < 1236721810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-9*9-4*4 < 1236721828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: You still don't handle EOF, I see < 1236721846 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just quitting with q now, if you type something different you can retype < 1236721863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a loop with an exit condition's always nice < 1236721866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If EOF is given that's an infinite loop you've got there < 1236721875 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236721887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does EOF do in befunge-93? < 1236721895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as -98, no? < 1236721901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reflection in funge-98, but befunge-93 wasn't as picky IIRC < 1236721908 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think that anyone will run this program with a given file via stdin < :] - i dont think anyone will run this program anyway :D < 1236721918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Seems undefined, actually < 1236721922 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its good for practice anyway < 1236721929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, many programs assumed it returned -1 < 1236721933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably what the reference interp did < 1236721934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: I can type ^D (^Z on DOS/Windows) < 1236721948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it certainly can be, it depends on the file format <-- yes, some are broken < 1236721951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and < 1236721958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep and sed operate on *text* files < 1236721965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one said they made sense for binary files < 1236721974 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236721980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ way to do that without a newlnie? <-- depends. If bash yes < 1236721997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd <<< "$1" < 1236721999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1236721999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1236722004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd <<< "$1"$'\n' < 1236722009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you want < 1236722010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: anyway, not even befunge, obfuscated befunge < 1236722029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot can run funge one-liners, but only fizzie can submit them because it's written in funge itself and the programs might escape < 1236722030 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not stupid, just not the only barrier, if it had arithmetic, it might be -1 too. < 1236722060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't it use = or something for them? < 1236722071 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we crossed obfuscated code too like the raytracer you can find on ioccc < 1236722086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a great teacher < 1236722103 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a funny guy though < 1236722112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if so, would you say the same argument holds for filesystems? <-- file systems *does* store length separately. Using in-band data for it would be very silly. < 1236722114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is no fun unless it's obfuscated or in the shape of something < 1236722116 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236722142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know, I was talking about using length-prefixed lines as a text file format, some filesystems used to do that < 1236722152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mycology? < 1236722164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 notices that most other languages don't need a command to explain what an expression does, apart from C which has cdecl <-- C++ would need it... < 1236722165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite obfuscated IMO. < 1236722175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun parts are, anyway. ;-) < 1236722182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whitespace is probably the easiest of those languages to use <-- only with good syntax highlighting < 1236722186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it looks quite readable for a Befunge torture-test < 1236722200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you write Whitespace in a wimpmode first, then compile < 1236722205 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1236722206 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp < 1236722206 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\? < 1236722220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: by the way, are you submitting your assignment electronically, or printed? < 1236722231 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: electronically < 1236722233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pity < 1236722238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Whitespace, that would have been fun < 1236722239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236722243 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236722265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I learned that working with a stack when you can only access the top two elements sucks <-- variables. You have sizeof(fungecell)*sizeof(fungecell) - program size of them. < 1236722275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not working with a stack now is it. < 1236722286 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, major lag ;< < 1236722302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it doesn't suck if you can do things like dip combinators, but befunge-93 is sadly lacking in those < 1236722315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dip combinators? < 1236722317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in befunge-98, you can use the stack stack to do something similar but it's a bit unwieldy < 1236722333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "run this code on the current stack minus its top element, then put the top element back again" < 1236722338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does EOF do in befunge-93? Same as -98, no? <-- iirc undef, but I have seen push -1 as one variant... < 1236722339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of this is assuming you have access to something other than the top two elements of a stack. :-P < 1236722343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is a~*^ in Underload < 1236722350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which only has access to the top two elements < 1236722352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do try and read a few lines ahead before responding. < 1236722359 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236722367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reaches end < 1236722375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can use dip tricks to get more < 1236722376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catch up on what was said while he were writing  < 1236722381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dip implies that you can access more than the top two. < 1236722388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1236722401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)a~*^S < 1236722402 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1236722402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does, as it is in itself a mechanism to access more than the top two. < 1236722414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)~a~*^S < 1236722414 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba < 1236722421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I doing wrong? < 1236722430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)~a*^S < 1236722430 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bac < 1236722432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1236722445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is actually ~a*^ in Underload < 1236722454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, OK < 1236722459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you write Whitespace in a wimpmode first, then compile <-- oh? < 1236722466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1236722485 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236722487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whitespace wimpmode in question would presumably list each whitespace /command/ as a separate visible printable character < 1236722489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: E.g. http://yagni.com/whitespace/index.html < 1236722494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compilation is then trivial < 1236722499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: That's not working with a stack now is it. <-- true < 1236722506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://www.burghard.info/Code/Whitespace/index.html < 1236722532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah even more to read up < 1236722533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236722570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: any way, my point is that dip in Underload can be implemented despite no ability to access stack elements beyond the top two < 1236722578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes < 1236722579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in only four characters, in fact! < 1236722602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is because you can expand the elements < 1236722602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But where is the top element stored while the code is being run? < 1236722615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in the program < 1236722621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on the call stack < 1236722624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how you think about it < 1236722626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have more than a plain number on your stack < 1236722629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236722629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ul < 1236722639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So there's an alternate storage location beyond the stack. < 1236722641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you could do something similar in bignum Befunge if you had a mingle operator < 1236722651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, another stack. < 1236722659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: there is in Funge too, it's the IP delta < 1236722659 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you guys are programing in esoteric languages just for fun? < 1236722664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: of course < 1236722667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. Befunge is like C. Pointer or Integer? No way to tell. Underload is managed. Because you can see data type < 1236722670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236722671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone program in an esolang for any other reason? < 1236722676 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know :D < 1236722685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can only store four values without x < 1236722689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well duh that is easy... < 1236722691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is a pain to work with < 1236722693 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he has to, like i had to - but it was fun < 1236722699 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, esolangs do have their bright sides < 1236722699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for the enterprise solutions that exist < 1236722700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236722710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really we need bexml < 1236722715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Befunge is fun, other esolangs not so much, in my experience :-P < 1236722716 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's way easier to learn BF by heart rather than learning the whole Java class library :D < 1236722725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we shall take the corporate world with storm < 1236722731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if there's ever another OMGWTF competition, I'll enter it trying to make out that INTERCAL is an enterprise langauge < 1236722733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1236722741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: But on the other hand, learning the whole Java class library implies you can actually, you know, do things. < 1236722743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "OMGWTF competition"? < 1236722745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using INTERCAL will probably conflict with the requirements, but in the OMGWTF that doesn't actually matter < 1236722755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the worsethanfailure Olympiad of Misguided Geeks < 1236722763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's back to being called dailywtf.com again now < 1236722765 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah, i think whitespace/brainfuck are just painful to write < 1236722766 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1236722768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... got a link to previous ones? < 1236722775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was only one previous one, let me try to find it < 1236722782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Whitespace is okay if you use an assembler < 1236722789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: But it's not particularly /fun/ IMO < 1236722802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, for some strange reason, I actually do find fun < 1236722810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omg.worsethanfailure.com/ < 1236722811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1236722820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I prefer writing *interpreters* for esolangs < 1236722827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more interesting < 1236722828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that can still be offset by unsavoury tasks < 1236722835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compilers < 1236722851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth, writing an optimising brainfuck -> C compiler is quite interesting < 1236722859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more than writing *in* brainfuck < 1236722869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OMGWTF was all about writing programs that looked like they were generated via a bad development process < 1236722874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236722875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that interested in writing interpreters/compilers for uninteresting esolangs < 1236722878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236722878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it turned into a contest for ridiculous programs, more than anything else < 1236722888 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm someone gave me a link to the befunge irc bot now, are there some additional bigger projects/programs in these languages? (so more or less useful ones) < 1236722901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOBELA is one that I've been thinking of implementing, don't really have much time now < 1236722905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specification of the contest was "implement a clone of Windows Calculator, using one of these two provided skeleton GUIs written in C" < 1236722916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Mycology is the biggest Funge program, I think < 1236722917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a trivial task, the competition was all about how badly you could mess it up < 1236722940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: http://iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/mycology.html < 1236722944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah I remember reading about that contest being announced... < 1236722950 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236722991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: If you find a bug, please report it ;-) < 1236723004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth, cfunge does include some simpler example programs in the tarball. And some weird test programs < 1236723004 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236723014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of which only make sense for cfunge < 1236723033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not likely unless he write his own interpreter < 1236723033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? because they test things only cfunge gets wrong? because they test cfunge-specific features? < 1236723035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: http://www.rcfunge98.com/ has some examples and links < 1236723045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, RC/Funge < 1236723056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of has the opposite philosophy to Mycology < 1236723058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well some of them test undef behaviour that I want to behave in a specific way < 1236723074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How's that < 1236723079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some are about funge109 < 1236723086 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236723096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and a few are just not in mycology but should be < 1236723106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: another good Funge link is http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/ < 1236723111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of the longer domain names on the Internet < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls tests/ < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent-issues.b98 iterate-iterate2.b109 iterate-zero.b98 perl.b98 split-in-iterate.b98 text-output.b98 wrap.b98 < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate-fetchchar.b98 iterate-jump.b109 jumpwrap.b98 refc-invalid-deref.b98 sysexec.b98 turt.b98 < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate-iterate.b109 iterate-space.b109 multi-file.b98 sigfpe.b98 sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98 turt2.b98 < 1236723131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a few of them were crash bugs found with fuzz testing < 1236723139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the concurrent-iussues one < 1236723146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ages ago < 1236723172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know that ccbi were affected by a few of them < 1236723172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Befunge-93 or Befunge-98, by the way? < 1236723179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the refc-invalid-deref.b98 one < 1236723188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "CCBI was", unless CCBI has somehow managed to become plural < 1236723195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236723202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I have two copies of CCBI here < 1236723203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723209 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first thanks for the links, will check them out - was not specified, just "befunge" < 1236723217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If CCBI were affected by them" is correct but hardly seen nowadays < 1236723228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: write a program that works differently in the two, then < 1236723241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's tricky. < 1236723246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236723249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not really < 1236723252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hint: double quote space space double quote pushes two entries on the stack in Befunge-93, but only one in Befunge-98 < 1236723256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I do it in Mycology. < 1236723257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236723270 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :] < 1236723271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes exactly. And you could depend on a reflecting in 93 < 1236723278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I still think Mycology violates the Befunge-93 spec by being too big < 1236723280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it pushes 10 in 98 < 1236723300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite possible, it's really not well specified < 1236723302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interfunge fails because of that, and basically passes otherwise < 1236723322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference from expected output is that it prints numbers with Roman numerals < 1236723324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology wasn't intended as a Befunge-93 test suite anyway, I just noticed that I could so I did < 1236723328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236723330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a misfeature, not a bug < 1236723344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate: Edit -> Block mode (~ due to l10n), copy. Paste in new file. Save as mycolgy-93.bf < 1236723348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue solved < 1236723354 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a sudoku solver, thats more or less useful < 1236723355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an easy enough issue, I did it with sed < 1236723366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? I don't know sed well enough < 1236723379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: strip the first 25 lines to 80 characters, delete all the others < 1236723391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows s, d, p and q in sed < 1236723396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you need < 1236723401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s does everything in sed < 1236723411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: strip the first 25 lines to 80 characters, delete all the others <-- um... ? < 1236723415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have no trouble writing a regex to delete all but the first 80 characters < 1236723432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 26,$d will delete all but the first 25 lines < 1236723434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc sed doesn't support {a,b} for range < 1236723445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some versions support \{ \} for range, IIRC < 1236723449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1236723450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing 80 dots is easy, just tedious < 1236723451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? and grouping is enough to support {} < 1236723458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and error-prone < 1236723464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 80 dots won't work if there're less than 80 chars < 1236723464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with copy-paste < 1236723469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04 AnMaster: so. Befunge is like C. Pointer or Integer? No way to tell. Underload is managed. Because you can see data type < 1236723471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just program < 1236723473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236723473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: then the s/// won't match, so it'll do nothing < 1236723475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only typ < 1236723476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236723478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the correct thing to do in this case < 1236723482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: D'oh < 1236723495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not bash, no < 1236723499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be plain sh(1) < 1236723501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the interpreter has a higher level understanding of it < 1236723502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or < 1236723507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1236723510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1236723512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have programs < 1236723513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have < 1236723520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but same with befunge < 1236723523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no language-level distinction < 1236723529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236723531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a GC in befunge < 1236723534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell dd to copy-all-but-1? < 1236723537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reclaims unused funge space < 1236723537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236723538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Underlambda actually has fewer data types than Underload, they both have exactly one but Underlambda's is lighter-weight < 1236723544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: impossible < 1236723547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a separate GC thread < 1236723553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible unless you put restrictions on what the program can do < 1236723556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. For same reason as C < 1236723559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236723561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can skip at the start of input < 1236723563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even more so < 1236723563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an entirely different reason < 1236723563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, nothing's stopping it revivifying a pointer < 1236723567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't know whether you'll access fungespace < 1236723572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via editing itself < 1236723572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C etc, you just traverse the heap from one pointer < 1236723576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see reachable objects < 1236723578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that with befunge < 1236723583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err how so? < 1236723587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236723589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Using that and swab you can reverse the file < 1236723589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get bounds on the used area < 1236723589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236723593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using y < 1236723597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even in C you can write *(int*)0x480dacef, which confuses garbage collectors no end, but it's considered bad form < 1236723602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is undef behaviour < 1236723603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And then skip from the start of the reverse < 1236723607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236723611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: swab is another command? < 1236723614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, in Funge that sort of thing's rather normal < 1236723618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236723621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: conv=swab < 1236723628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap every pair of input bytes < 1236723635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many Funge programs are there that hardcode p and g coordinates? < 1236723647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a simpler way < 1236723650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, me, Deewiant, most other people? < 1236723651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how many Funge programs are there that use some sort of fungemalloc to find unallocated fungespace? < 1236723655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Too Esoteric for you? :-P < 1236723659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, none that I know of < 1236723662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, just too tedious < 1236723663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly < 1236723670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why a Funge garbage collector makes no sense < 1236723670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway C programs have hard coded coords. < 1236723676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: static variables? < 1236723677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err pointers < 1236723679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236723685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but those aren't garbage-collected < 1236723687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fungemalloc sounds like a cool idea actually < 1236723688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236723700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236723701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better than Mike's silly C malloc, anyway :-P < 1236723702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high level language specifically designed to target befunge would be fun < 1236723705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: agreed, there should be a fingerprint that does that < 1236723705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for Mike < 1236723709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good he isn't here < 1236723715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we would have had REAL issues < 1236723718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhhhhhhhheheheehhhhhhhhhe < 1236723718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocating in negative fungespae would probably be safest < 1236723719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFGC < 1236723721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236723723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what issues? < 1236723736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MikeRiley implementing a fungemalloc before we could write a decent spec for it < 1236723737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a badly specced fingerprint for GC in befunge which didn't actually work < 1236723741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1236723742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap. < 1236723746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, garbage collection? that would be worse < 1236723751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236723754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236723762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I find mkry's fingerprints to be okay, on the whole < 1236723762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although at least nobody sane would try to use it < 1236723763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a fingerprint for malloc() < 1236723763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of them are awful < 1236723768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system malloc() that is < 1236723769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which one do you think is worst? < 1236723770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the specs are simple enough to follow < 1236723776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's one that I forgot < 1236723778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look it up < 1236723779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ambiguous. < 1236723782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the one that violates the semantics of the langauge < 1236723784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1236723787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only some of them < 1236723790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's obviously worse in a language-lawyer sense < 1236723791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FNGR? < 1236723792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worst < 1236723794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others just specify blanket behaviour like reflecting < 1236723796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most < 1236723801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not IMO. < 1236723807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well he says "reflect on error" without saying what's an error < 1236723809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, reflecting on error isn't bad < 1236723818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah should specify what are errors < 1236723828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236723830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar... < 1236723832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that was the one < 1236723844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't remember which of FING and FNGR was the good one and which was the broken one < 1236723847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, FNGR is at least not badly specced < 1236723848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He retconned it to switch to the alternate semantics < 1236723857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some fingerprints I have no idea what the hell they are supposed to do < 1236723862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When this fingerprint is loaded, fingerprints work like this." < 1236723864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some MACR or something iirc < 1236723885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro extension < 1236723886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's trivial < 1236723888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His botching of MVRS annoyed me < 1236723888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236723889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#MACR < 1236723893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Macros are simple mini-funge like Befunge-like subroutines that execute in a single tick" < 1236723897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We thought up some pretty good stuff to make it work well < 1236723898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fine to me < 1236723900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he retconned that one too < 1236723902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he kept with his first implementation/spec < 1236723921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about TRGR? < 1236723927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's just not very interesting/smart that way, I forget which < 1236723931 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236723939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236723941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TRGR is wellspecced < 1236723948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the list below the instruction overview < 1236723951 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236723951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, for this funge malloc thing < 1236723954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again slightly retconned < 1236723955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The trigger table contains executable code for the new IP, the code for A begins at the trigger table vector, B starts at the same X one line lower, C below that, etc" < 1236723955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do we need? < 1236723960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well stop giving me retconned ones < 1236723968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: M ( -- x y) < 1236723971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Something to specify an area as not to be allocated into < 1236723971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) < 1236723975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236723979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P (x y x1 y2 --) < 1236723982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is your #1 < 1236723987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (x y x1 y2 --) < 1236723987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so M returns a block of what size? < 1236723988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite of P < 1236723993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: M (x y -- x y) < 1236723993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, good point < 1236723997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, some way to return malloc a block of a specific size, getting coords back < 1236724003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M (x y -- x y) allocate fungespace block < 1236724003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then free too < 1236724009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) deallocate fungespace block < 1236724016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P (x y x1 y1 --) don't allocate in this block < 1236724021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, I'm continuing from what ehird said :-) < 1236724021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have a realloc too < 1236724021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (x y x1 y1 --) undo P < 1236724026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236724028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x y -- x y) < 1236724031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Deewiant said < 1236724033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R? < 1236724034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1236724035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc? < 1236724035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're done < 1236724036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc < 1236724036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1236724039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I would suggest unique names for the parameters... < 1236724040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why? < 1236724047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because realloc is useful < 1236724049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even better point < 1236724054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1236724059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was typing out Deewiant but with x1,y1 for the second pair < 1236724060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's make this bigger, and move to a different part of fungespace if it doesn't fi < 1236724061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fit < 1236724061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he said it :P < 1236724076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest x,y for position, w,h for width/height < 1236724089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc I remember a comment from boehm-gc saying "eww realloc, well we are stuck with it since it is in C standard" < 1236724093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something to the same effect < 1236724094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose we could do GC as well < 1236724098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G ( -- ) < 1236724099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how? < 1236724102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236724105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservatively < 1236724105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free everything < 1236724108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236724111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use large negative numbers for coordinates < 1236724117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are unlikely to show up in the program < 1236724120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236724121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you CAN < 1236724125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do a precise GC < 1236724125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe G (t -- ) < 1236724129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both befunge and C < 1236724133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes really < 1236724133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free everything not touched in t ticks < 1236724135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look for numbers anywhere on the stack or in fungespace that are in the allocated range < 1236724145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically need to do what valgrind --tool=exp-ptrcheck < 1236724147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: conservative would work, I think < 1236724148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :track every pointer < 1236724154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is copied around < 1236724158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1236724158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how can you tell an integer from a pointer in befunge? < 1236724162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hrmph < 1236724171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit expensive, that < 1236724173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you could tell how the value from this fingerprint was copied < 1236724184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: who says fingerprints have to be cheap < 1236724187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my tick idea is pretty workable < 1236724190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236724197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't implement the GC bit < 1236724199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're discussing garbage-collected Befunge here, and you want it to be /efficient/? < 1236724205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suggest another way < 1236724212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want it to be needlessly inefficient < 1236724218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A (x y w b --) < 1236724221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boehm-GC is conservative, anyway < 1236724222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate arena to allocate from < 1236724226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guyz < 1236724227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/arvgu9k9bb < 1236724231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it. < 1236724232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1236724234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, deallocating data just because it hasn't been used recently is mad < 1236724236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully specced < 1236724237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready to go < 1236724239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But if you want, we can spec that negative values given to G do funky stuff < 1236724246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236724247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a Silly Emplosions idea < 1236724247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I disagree < 1236724249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 can be your conservative collector < 1236724250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1236724256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it specifies all behaviour < 1236724257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " A (x y w b --) allocate arena to allocate from" < 1236724258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the sake of sanity I think we should agree that Silly Emplosions stuff shouldn't be ported to any lang but INTERCAL < 1236724261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that way < 1236724262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1236724264 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236724264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid. < 1236724267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is better. < 1236724269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so program has to mark areas to allocate from < 1236724274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your is stupid. Mine is better < 1236724276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think by default the arena should be negative fungespace < 1236724280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now say why your is better < 1236724291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs should have to mark which bits, if any, they're using < 1236724291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) Deallocate block. <<< what does this mean? < 1236724293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is better because the amount of manual fungespace usage is more likely to be finite, < 1236724298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like free() in C < 1236724299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the allocatory areas < 1236724300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Later allocations can use it < 1236724303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deallocate an allocated block of size x,y"? < 1236724303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could have multiple arenas. As memory pools < 1236724304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait < 1236724306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different size < 1236724307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236724308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be x y x1 y1 < 1236724310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my idea < 1236724313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: deallocate the block allocated at coordinates x,y < 1236724318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err k < 1236724321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size is known from the coordinates < 1236724326 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236724326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236724328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236724329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was allocated via fungemalloc in the first place < 1236724330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not just have the arena be the whole space < 1236724337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should also be a "Get size of allocated block" < 1236724339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is the meta data stored? < 1236724342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and overwrite the function? < 1236724344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, object pools? < 1236724345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1236724345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aunvNDw2J < 1236724347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1236724350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in fungespace? fungemalloc can allocate its own bit < 1236724351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what makes most sense, but i dislike it not being mentioned and x, y used for another purpose too. < 1236724352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eagerly await implementations :P < 1236724356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have to start by saying what can't be allocated on top of < 1236724361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how can it know program won't Q it? < 1236724362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I did < 1236724362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see P,Q < 1236724370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x1 y1 -- x2 y2) Resize the block x*y to be x1*y1, return new coordinates. < 1236724371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wut < 1236724376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, I know you did, I even said it before you originally :-P < 1236724379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the block x*y"? < 1236724382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all implementaitons should have P,Q, but we should agree what the default arena is < 1236724385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes yes. < 1236724387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The block at x*y < 1236724388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: implementation defined < 1236724390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definitely means any random block of size x*y < 1236724391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be "the block at (x,y)" < 1236724402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's useless < 1236724402 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1236724409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1236724412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if it's the point x*y, why not just give an integer < 1236724412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about MEMORY POOLS! < 1236724413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my R is fine < 1236724414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation defined actually seems like the best idea < 1236724414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone? < 1236724415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs would have to run Q then P in order to guarantee what they did at all < 1236724417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since only one block can start at one place < 1236724418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, heh. < 1236724419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with program defined ARENAS < 1236724422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, no < 1236724423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ALLOCATE FROM? < 1236724434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are everyone ignoring this suggestion? < 1236724436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1236724436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use any fungespace manually, use P < 1236724437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's just that you're using x*y rather than (x,y) for coordinatese < 1236724439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's shit < 1236724442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i'll change that < 1236724442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1236724443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No it's not < 1236724445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's the same as ehird's, just with differnet defaults < 1236724450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1236724459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, one can be implemented in the other < 1236724460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do it by Ping everything then Qing your arena < 1236724462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arenas < 1236724466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really. It would be easier to implement < 1236724471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that brings up a good point < 1236724474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a program could P/Q in a complex overlapping way < 1236724475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantics for overlapping P/Q < 1236724480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236724486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aPrF2K5xA < 1236724487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updated. < 1236724489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest call takes precedence? < 1236724490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I suggest non-overlapping areans < 1236724490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the newest overrides older ones < 1236724490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Undefined. < 1236724493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236724494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no way < 1236724494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not undefined < 1236724501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newer overrides older is the only sane way < 1236724503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fine. < 1236724504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to handle circle shaped pools < 1236724504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that. < 1236724506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about multiple threads < 1236724507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well t is synced still < 1236724523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from interpreter point of view < 1236724523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib < 1236724527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, wait! < 1236724531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they share pools IMO < 1236724531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, wait, nevermind. < 1236724533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one essentially says 'I want you to allocate here' and the other says 'I want you to not allocate here' what happens < 1236724534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib <- updated version < 1236724540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, I guess, so you have to work it out yourself < 1236724542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: whichever gets there last works < 1236724542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the latest takes precedence < 1236724545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if we have overlapping P/Q then you can count me out < 1236724555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just too hard to try to fit < 1236724564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one thread allocates a pointer, and another thread frees it, which takes precedence? < 1236724566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I figured we'd count you out anyway, I know how you are with feral fingerprints. :-P < 1236724568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why is it difficult? < 1236724570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one that gets their last < 1236724571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1236724580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm fine with a simple suggestion as I suggested < 1236724587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, obviously, I was trying to make it a rhetorical question so Deewiant understood < 1236724589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with allocating pools and allocating from these pools < 1236724594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236724601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P and Q just flip allocatableness of a fungespace element < 1236724604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're all agreeing here apart from AnMaster, who is boring as far as fingerprints go. < 1236724608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even a feral fingerprint! < 1236724612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: Any issues with http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib? < 1236724613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's feral about it? < 1236724617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'feral' is poorly defined. < 1236724619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: reading it now < 1236724623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well how would you try to fit an allocation in < 1236724627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds non-trivial < 1236724636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for arbitrary P/Q < 1236724638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R should read: < 1236724638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x1 y1 -- x2 y2) Resize the block at (x,y) to be (x1,y1) sized, return new < 1236724639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coordinates. < 1236724648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aFetqtklgb Updated version. < 1236724654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: my definition of non-feral is "could be implemented in the INTERCAL part of C-INTERCAL+IFFI+cfunge without modifying anything on the funge side apart from fungespace" < 1236724655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Usually we've taken it to mean storing data related to the Funge state beyond what is stored in an interpreter without the fingerprint < 1236724673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: any qualms with http://nopaste.com/p/aFetqtklgb? < 1236724675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Use w and h, please. :-) < 1236724683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing < 1236724686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236724690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think GC would be fun < 1236724697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it. I'm going to do my own with same name < 1236724697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236724700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, OK, I've taken it to mean things that can't be implemented without tinkering with interp internals < 1236724710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because ehird is ignoring me because of who I am < 1236724711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Say goodbye to Mycology compatibility then ;-) < 1236724716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so implementing x in a fingerprint is feral, implementing a stack stack in an interp isn't < 1236724719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that's essentially the same thing < 1236724730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway see my point above about how I think it should be done < 1236724734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm ignoring you because your idea is shit. < 1236724736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being paranoid. < 1236724740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, my definition allows fingerprints to have internal state < 1236724740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WHY is it shit < 1236724746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you haven't justified that < 1236724747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already explained that < 1236724747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas as far as i can tell, yours doesn't < 1236724751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't general enough < 1236724752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no you didn't < 1236724758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no reason not to generalise < 1236724763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: http://nopaste.com/p/aVFHswSKL < 1236724765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now using w and h. < 1236724771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y) to be (w,yh) size < 1236724772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why restrict the user to a rectangular arena that can't be changed over time? < 1236724773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*h < 1236724774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: With internal state, everything is nonferal since you can just embed an interpreter. :-) < 1236724783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of Q as being a befunge version of sbrk < 1236724784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure can, allocate another arena < 1236724787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides the current one < 1236724792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's feral in a multithreaded program < 1236724795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory pool_s_ < 1236724801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the plural s mean < 1236724803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1236724804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you're altering state too quickly for the other threads to take steps < 1236724811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/au1ZCEs3i Easier to read. < 1236724813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you deallocate them again? < 1236724819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone other than AnMaster has comments, they're welcome. < 1236724824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't allocate fungespace in the (x1,y1) sized region starting at (x,y). < 1236724826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, just empty pools first and call some other instruction < 1236724827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: give me time to read one < 1236724828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/x1/w/ etc < 1236724830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Presumably you can access the host interpreter's threads from within the fingerprint. < 1236724832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see. it is personal < 1236724834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236724835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than posting new versions so quick I nver reach the end < 1236724840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you just have an idea about this fingerprint I don't care for < 1236724845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, I don't assume that < 1236724852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, if you want, I'm happy to make it personal, as you're doing a good job of showing yourself to be an idiot < 1236724855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't assume anything about the interp at all except ability to access the stack and fungespace < 1236724859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/axl96oLTab Tada. < 1236724865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my definition of "feral" is "requires knowledge of the interp to implement" < 1236724884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume access to the entire Funge state of the host including everything in the -98 standard < 1236724910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I.e. some sort of interface to all the internals so that you can implement any fingerprint. < 1236724911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, being able to have an interpreter-global state + be able to run something atomically compared to ticks would be allowed < 1236724915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, ok < 1236724921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing it's a loose definition < 1236724923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Without that, feral fingerprints couldn't really happen :-) < 1236724927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if you can access other threads in cfunge fingerprints < 1236724933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably not < 1236724934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: looks good; I would state that by default, all fungespace is available for allocation < 1236724940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Something like that is what's intended < 1236724943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'd prefer the default to be all negative fungespace < 1236724951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's really unclear and thus a fairly useless term in practice < 1236724957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll make all fungespace < 1236724961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no < 1236724961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236724964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it implementation defined < 1236724965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why not impl-defined? < 1236724972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so programmers don't have to worry about changing P commands whenever they update their program < 1236724973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in cfunge fingerprints can't access other threads < 1236724975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's much worse < 1236724975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1236724979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236724980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why's that < 1236724981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be all fungespace < 1236724982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because programs wouldn't be able to be portable < 1236724996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without overriding the defaults < 1236724999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aSZv3hZFI < 1236725004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now gives all fungespace by default. < 1236725006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good point < 1236725009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it this way, suppose in C malloc() could be defined to either overwrite your program, or not < 1236725013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236725018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was a command to tell it not to overwrite given functions < 1236725031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone would have to call it for every function in their program to be portable < 1236725032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good point. And I have suggested a solution that ehird censored away < 1236725039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm censoring you by not listening to you. < 1236725043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why *he* began writing the fingerprint < 1236725045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut the fuck up and go cry me a river. < 1236725046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was my idea to begin with < 1236725047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236725049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if most C interps did the sane thing which is to not overwrite any < 1236725057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg, I am also an IDEA THEIF < 1236725059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: personally, I think systems should give sane defaults < 1236725059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get over yourself... < 1236725067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236725070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P and Q are corner cases < 1236725070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike your system because it gives the insane default of not working < 1236725072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly. I should have written a spec without mentioning it < 1236725080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so I couldn't steal your ideas < 1236725080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Was it not ais523's idea? < 1236725081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then presented it when mostly done < 1236725083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up with you < 1236725085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dislike ehird's because it gives the insane default of possibly overwriting the user's program < 1236725086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even your idae < 1236725088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ais523 < 1236725092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1236725094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that < 1236725098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236725099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, read scrollback < 1236725101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll change it to all fungespace outside the program or something < 1236725104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236725106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts on that? < 1236725107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that would do < 1236725109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 22:20:50 in your time zone < 1236725114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so < 1236725115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I chose negative is that it can't be written without g/p < 1236725116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all unused fungespace? < 1236725121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: comments? < 1236725122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unused may also work < 1236725125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm sure I suggested GC first at least < 1236725127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: All fungespace not in the rectangle specified by the file < 1236725132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that implies a malloc() < 1236725133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236725135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's an interesting problem here < 1236725137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write that in some more understandable way, I'm sure. :-) < 1236725143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to do with Lahey-lines, and wrapping < 1236725150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that as you said there's a problem < 1236725154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: http://nopaste.com/p/avRd8YmTS < 1236725156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1236725160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if your malloc allocates space on a Lahey-line htat the program actually uses for wrapping? < 1236725168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236725172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very bad < 1236725181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Interesting. < 1236725184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: thoughts? < 1236725192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ability to mark a given Lahey-line as with P < 1236725199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be default < 1236725204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise programs would break like hell < 1236725208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem's relatively easy to solve if you only use cardinal coordinates < 1236725208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use x to get on any Lahey-line < 1236725209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236725212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if program expands < 1236725214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but that's boring < 1236725214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have issues < 1236725231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you couldn't say "non-cardinal wrapping undef with this fingerprint" or such < 1236725236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since program could expand < 1236725243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: By default, only the four quadrants diagonal from the initial rectangle, and then we need an additional command < 1236725244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by by default, allocating only if you don't share an x- or y-coordinate with the original fungespace < 1236725247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would run into issues < 1236725255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: saying "non-cardinal wrapping undef with this fingerprint" is bad anywawy < 1236725271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok. better wording needed < 1236725274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nicer but unfortunately buggy solution to wrapping is to surround the program with semicolons < 1236725278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, better concept needed < 1236725290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the malloced block could contain ; < 1236725294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help much < 1236725296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggy both because a flying IP might jump them, and because a cardinal program might write a ; into the block < 1236725302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236725308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just specify that you can't allocate on a lahey-line? < 1236725311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236725312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236725314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1236725316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that a program points to < 1236725320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236725321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that came out awkward < 1236725324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately every element of fungespace is on some lahey-line < 1236725327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236725328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236725328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236725336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and specifically enumerating every lahey-line you use would get boring fast < 1236725347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236725349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L (x y xd yd -- ) would do it < 1236725354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hm? < 1236725360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that'd get too tedious < 1236725362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For specifying a Lahey-line for non-use < 1236725363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default, it should just work. < 1236725367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would doing that for every cell in a 32-bit funge space be larger than G= < 1236725369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't, I don't think. < 1236725373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1236725374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1236725380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Btw, those should be general vectors of course, so it makes sense in Trefunge < 1236725383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I suspect it would be "bloody large" < 1236725389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Unefunge is screwed with this fingerprint < 1236725395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: after we fix this problem, sure :-) < 1236725400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not if it doesn't try to use wrapping < 1236725420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True < 1236725439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is 2^32*2^32 cells. Coords can be 2^32*2^32 different values. Wait that's a lot... < 1236725448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, actually working but feral solution: malloced blocks are untouchable by the IP as if they contained spaces < 1236725456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: god no < 1236725457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like setting noexec on malloced memory < 1236725458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's boring < 1236725463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236725464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be fun to execute malloc'ed blocks < 1236725466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1236725466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree it's boring, and I'd like a better one < 1236725470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter detector < 1236725472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc a block < 1236725474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump to it < 1236725474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have an early draft for a NX fingerprint... < 1236725475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record your IP < 1236725476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236725482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I refuse to say anything more < 1236725490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ehird would mess that up too < 1236725494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236725496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, an NX fingerprint would be nice whether or not we do this malloc thing < 1236725498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you crying or something? < 1236725501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would combine well < 1236725508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I stole the idea that wasn't yours and broke it because it wasn't your idea? < 1236725512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be sort-of like abstain from INTERCAL < 1236725513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ. < 1236725514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no but I'm soon ignoring you < 1236725522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what happens if an already-malloced block is P'd? < 1236725525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snort*. You call me a sore loser... < 1236725527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it get reallocated? < 1236725533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well my idea was to cause exit/debugger entry on NX < 1236725535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hm. < 1236725536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has to < 1236725539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflect. < 1236725543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but ignore could be interesting too < 1236725548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as reflect < 1236725549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ignoring is much more interesting < 1236725562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aPJgTXEWfb slight update; still needs a lahey-line fix < 1236725564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more general: < 1236725569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say that reflection should be reserved for out of memory errors < 1236725571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it was supposed to be a joke about real NX.... < 1236725580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then realized that that doesn't really make sense in Funge < 1236725585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fingerprint that lets fungespace cells be different when run as a command from when read as a value < 1236725592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with mprotect() like interface < 1236725605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like those Perl constants that have different values as ints than they do as strings < 1236725614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and possibly minimal block page sizes < 1236725615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could fill an area with acts-like-space, or acts-like-r < 1236725622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow the interpreter to still be efficient < 1236725625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst the cells still kept their orignal value < 1236725627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*original < 1236725633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop it, you're stealing & ruining his fingerprint! < 1236725645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I like my idea about this better than AnMaster's < 1236725650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, ais523 is contstructive < 1236725652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you should design an optimizing compiler for Brainfuck, in Brainfuck < 1236725654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster's is just a joke, mine's a feral esoprogramming technique < 1236725655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suggest both < 1236725665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yours could be implemented in mine using act-as-@ < 1236725671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it should be possible to combine them < 1236725675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1236725690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no @ != q and enter debugger of interpreter if any < 1236725706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know @ != q < 1236725709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, + mine include "read only" too < 1236725718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which your doesn't < 1236725724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, mine could also implement "write only" < 1236725728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making cells unreadable < 1236725735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so could mine. per-threads < 1236725735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having -wx-wx-wx permissions is occasionally useful < 1236725737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread* < 1236725748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly, I've never used it < 1236725751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so one thread could write and others only read < 1236725772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would you need that? encapsulation in Befunge is never going to be safe... < 1236725783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't want to see my *other* ideas then < 1236725787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, with that mentioned, anyone up for trying to write a security fingerprint for Befunge that restricts all unsafe operations? < 1236725798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure- Cfunge already has that partly < 1236725800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the Safe module in Perl? < 1236725803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding same on per-thread < 1236725805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easy < 1236725805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's an interpreter, not a fingerprint < 1236725816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could make the flag per-thread < 1236725819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite easily < 1236725835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a fingerprint to control it < 1236725879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but my idea was ring based, or optionally capabiltity based < 1236725900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both NX and this RING/CAP would be efunge only. < 1236725914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though SAFE would be trivial in cfunge < 1236725914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good fingerprints shouldn't be interp-specific! < 1236725933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I just don't like slowing down the core of cfunge with checks < 1236725935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236725942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even IFFI is worded so that it could be implemented in non-cfunge-plus-C-INTERCAL implementations < 1236725950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course it would be < 1236725956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I wouldn't implement them in cfunge < 1236725960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in efunge < 1236725960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody has tried yet < 1236725963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236725973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even assume the existence of an INTERCAL implementation < 1236725991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, read what I said. You misunderstood me! < 1236726018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw IFFI will soon need major updates. cfunge is currently in code/API cleanup < 1236726023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local branch only atm < 1236726027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't pushed it yet < 1236726034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, STCK seems bad < 1236726046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec-wise, I mean < 1236726052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why BROK for your malloc() one? < 1236726053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236726059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory BROKer. < 1236726062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It brokers memory. < 1236726065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although originally I said that because I read his stack (--) things upsidedown < 1236726066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236726067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broker < 1236726080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok. But still bad? < 1236726095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait what? < 1236726096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather underspecified < 1236726120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read B (v n -- v ..) as B (^u -- ^ ..) < 1236726122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236726127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have inverted v < 1236726147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I misread it as (q ɐ ɐ -- q ɐ) < 1236726153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1236726155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1236726160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that isn't even same one... < 1236726172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the one that made me wtf mentally < 1236726176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236726180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also that made me realise I was reading it upsidedown < 1236726184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what program did you use to invert? < 1236726196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sherv.net/flip.html, the first Google result on the issue < 1236726203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I assume you meant left-to-right or something like that < 1236726204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leads ehird to draw inconsistent conclusions about me < 1236726220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BE CONSISTENT DAMMIT :| < 1236726220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236726224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain—crash— < 1236726249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it fails badly < 1236726251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :åäö < 1236726253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't handle them < 1236726264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ә!Ⴈ ʇouuɐɔ ! puɐ sʇʇnq ƃ!q әʞ!Ⴈ ! < 1236726266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't exactly call that a bad fail < 1236726273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it fails badly on upper case < 1236726276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably worse < 1236726285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ɹәʇʇɐɯ ʎႨႨɐәɹ ʇ! sәop ʎoʇ ɐ s,ʇ! < 1236726286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do /you/ know the unicode for combining upside-down umlaut offhand? < 1236726293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1236726296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1236726300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact I suspect there isn't one < 1236726305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is Unicode so I might be surprised < 1236726308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iʎsɐә s!Ⴁʇ uәәq ɹәʌәu sɐႡ uʍop әp!sdn ƃu!ʇ!ɹʍ ˙әɯ!ʇ әɯɐs әႡʇ ʇɐ sɹәpɐәɹ әႡʇ ɹoɟ unɟ ɟo ʇoႨ ɐ puɐ ƃu!Ⴈƃƃoq-pu!ɯ puɐ ƃu!ƃɐƃuә әʇ!nb s,ʇ! ˙ʇxәʇ әႨ!ɟoɹd ɹo sәƃɐssәɯ ʎɐʍɐ 'sәƃɐssәɯ snʇɐʇs Ⴈɐuosɹәd 'sәɯɐu uәәɹɔs ɹnoʎ oʇ әႨʎʇs sppɐ ʇ! puɐ әnb!un s,ʇ! ˙ʍәu puɐ Ⴁsәɹɟ s,ʇ! iʎɹʇ ɐ ƃu!ʇ!ɹʍ uʍop әp!sdn ɹno әʌ!ƃ uәႡʇ ¿sʇu < 1236726311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oɟ ʎɹɐu!pɹo puɐ pɹɐpuɐʇs Ⴁʇ!ʍ pәɹoq noʎ әɹɐ < 1236726331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it can reverse back < 1236726342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1236726344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully < 1236726345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1236726346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :p=o؛u=ɔ¿/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236726363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it worked perfectly < 1236726372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"are you bored witბ standard" < 1236726377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the topic < 1236726385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236726387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me < 1236726389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your font is effed < 1236726392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236726396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1236726399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ბ isn't h < 1236726403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236726405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think so < 1236726408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are wrong < 1236726408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean putting it back? < 1236726411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1236726419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to put it back mostly < 1236726422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not h < 1236726430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think our topic counts as a log link according to freenode? :D < 1236726435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236726441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236726442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough to inform people that the channel is logged < 1236726446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what matters < 1236726455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they speak upside-downese, yes :D < 1236726456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it isn't very useful... < 1236726475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the c=n;o=d doesn't work lowercase < 1236726482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726501 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually looks nice < 1236726506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236726506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ბttp://tunes.org/~nef/იogs/esoteric/?c=n;o=d < 1236726508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that < 1236726510 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND it's copy-paste protecting < 1236726512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when converting back < 1236726519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing the h and the l here < 1236726520 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd need it for something < 1236726524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: in a log link, why is copy-paste protection good? < 1236726526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it fails on h and l < 1236726531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: annoys people < 1236726536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236726537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a very ESOTERIC link... < 1236726539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that good? < 1236726542 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236726542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you consider annoying people a good thing? < 1236726543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw dammit ais523 you beat me to it < 1236726545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in this caseä < 1236726548 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case* < 1236726550 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But generally < 1236726556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I agree about the esoness < 1236726559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it would take to get them out of some other font < 1236726563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok another idea < 1236726575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it appears I do have fonts that have those < 1236726656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to be the first person since the 70s to say this < 1236726660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like TECO < 1236726667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it is a good editor. < 1236726672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236726678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236726681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't break the TOS < 1236726683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙➡//:dʇʇɥ < 1236726686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he didn't < 1236726689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err. It did make sense < 1236726691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: invalid character < 1236726698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it almost certainly doesn't count as a link < 1236726711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And the current one does? < 1236726711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we had it spelled out before < 1236726712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha looks the same whether it's upside-down or not? < 1236726715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1236726717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no < 1236726723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ais523's doesn't inform the current chanel is logged < 1236726728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine counts as a link due to a very trivial isomorphism < 1236726731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i had "Logs:" in there < 1236726735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the link clearly demonstrates we're logged < 1236726735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got lost somewehere < 1236726740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since when do you decide? < 1236726740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's a very trivial isomorphism for AnMaster's as well < 1236726743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙➡//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236726750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using logic < 1236726753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that tinyarrow isn't upside-down < 1236726754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Logs: hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236726754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only if you know swedish < 1236726755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1236726757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't clear enough < 1236726760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1236726774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a better fix < 1236726781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And if you have a crap font, the title currently is a bunch of boxes. < 1236726784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I agree < 1236726789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais523's one is better < 1236726790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arrow is the wrong way around < 1236726793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is just being silly < 1236726796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I just fixed the arrow < 1236726798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236726803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais's looks mostly like boxes to me < 1236726805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OMG IT'S PERSONAL WHY DO YOU HATE ME < 1236726808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not to me < 1236726815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's your job. < 1236726821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://[box].ws/[box] < 1236726823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rather why do you think everyone else's topic is stupid < 1236726827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't say stupid. < 1236726831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what, that glagolitic capital letter spidery ha has been in the topic for ages < 1236726835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said insufficient according to the TOS. < 1236726838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite possibly it was a box then as well < 1236726847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more patience than you. < 1236726847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you not recognise the specific box by now? < 1236726855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that proves you are immature < 1236726856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These boxes, they are identical. < 1236726863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Patience is a huge sign of immaturity. < 1236726864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, both me and ais agrees. Two against one. < 1236726886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now ignoring majority is immature < 1236726890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: fizzie: help? < 1236726902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protect the right revision! < 1236726904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed I agree with ais523 < 1236726906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop changing the topic, asiekierka is not even in the channel < 1236726914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we're having a topic war < 1236726916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am asiekierka in disguise. < 1236726920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is outnumbered but trying to win just by being more specific < 1236726924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*persistent < 1236726925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is clearly better < 1236726932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236726933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it leads to the logs in sorted form < 1236726938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ehird's doesn't < 1236726938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236726939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15 AnMaster: indeed I agree with ais523 <-- imagine what IRC would be like if every person who agreed replied saying so every line < 1236726940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get this one at all < 1236726945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's because of the boxes? < 1236726957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fix your font? < 1236726962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, we have someone who cannot access the logs < 1236726963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: latest dejavu sans mono < 1236726964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236726973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too. < 1236726973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For crying out loud < 1236726974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's "logs: http://tinyarro.ws/GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA" < 1236726977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upside-down and with more unicode < 1236727003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1236727005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too < 1236727011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236727012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236727014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236727014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it does. < 1236727018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now everyone is happy < 1236727027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we stop fiddling with the topic and just leave it at the logs < 1236727031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes all variants please < 1236727034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a simple compromise < 1236727036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without all this bullshit < 1236727038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236727049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have your there too < 1236727052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before mine < 1236727054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't complain < 1236727056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: compromising normally requires at least one person to agree with you to some extent, although you have deewiant on your side < 1236727057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, I'm trying to stop this topic idiocy < 1236727061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Firefox shows none of the chars at http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/glagolitic.html :-/ < 1236727077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not reverting is generally considered a good way to end a revert war < 1236727086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I report you both for IRC 3RR < 1236727094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236727098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is superior on technical grounds. < 1236727100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the correct ordering. < 1236727104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does mine < 1236727105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED, can we all go home now? < 1236727105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D| Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved < 1236727113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236727120 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1236727122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we can now < 1236727130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: +t please < 1236727133 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236727133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236727134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236727136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236727137 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was wrong < 1236727137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notehird < 1236727142 0 :notehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236727146 0 :notehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: comma separated? < 1236727155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, kick him under his right nick < 1236727160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you kicked both ehird and anmaster with the other as the rason < 1236727162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1236727166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both auto-rejoined < 1236727166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know. < 1236727167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think he noticed < 1236727167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ninja_ < 1236727175 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<---- --------> < 1236727181 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<<<<<<<<<<----------------- < 1236727182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes my bouncer has this channel as "sticky channel" < 1236727184 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION the sound of silence. < 1236727193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since I don't want to part by misclick < 1236727199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes this one is auto rejoin < 1236727206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more fun just to link you each up to the other's bouncer, and see what happened < 1236727214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1236727222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you were both writing as each other < 1236727224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html#u2c00 almost no fonts have those glagolitic letters, where do you guys get them from? < 1236727230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't < 1236727231 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd get myself a K-line. < 1236727234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see them either < 1236727243 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe go to #freenode and spam goatses. < 1236727248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. I'm on way more channels than ehird < 1236727252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's definitely a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha, Character Map confirms it < 1236727257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on lots of networks < 1236727266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a total of 582 channels atm < 1236727272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird couldn't handle that < 1236727273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer UniView for such testing but yes, it is < 1236727273 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no way of knowing how many channels i am on. < 1236727277 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how many of those 582 do you actually read? < 1236727293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What about the arrow? Do you have a monospaced font that has that? < 1236727303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm using proportional atm < 1236727308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do. You said you were only on freenode recently. Freenode limits to 20 channels, or 100 on special request to staff < 1236727310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at most 100 < 1236727311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd explain it < 1236727312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see no reason it wouldn't be in a monospaced < 1236727320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is less than 582 < 1236727321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html#u2b00 < 1236727323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more than half < 1236727341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :582? O_o < 1236727348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some I need but don't read. Like #services on one network where I'm oper. I don't read it unless something unusual happen < 1236727352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you actually do, the rest of the time? < 1236727361 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236727365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, surely reading 582 IRC channels would take up your entire life? < 1236727373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on 30 a few weeks back, decided that was too much and parted from about 10 < 1236727382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Also some I idle in and only ask when I need help. Saves "polite initial wait before asking question" < 1236727384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on 9 atm < 1236727388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes ##freebsd < 1236727389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1236727393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean being in channels you don't actually talk in or read is stupid? < 1236727396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. < 1236727397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one's been dead for ages, I'm in it on the hope it becomes alive again < 1236727406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which? < 1236727409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#interhack? #rootnomic? < 1236727411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#nomic on slashnet < 1236727419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236727420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, #eso? < 1236727422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236727424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1236727429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no longer have #ESO on autojion < 1236727432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*autojoin < 1236727436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, me and comex are there < 1236727441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be much point until ESO actually gets running again < 1236727446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236727452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if someone asks me over there, I'll join < 1236727455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that day I'll be redy < 1236727462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird just joined < 1236727463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my general rule is to not join so many channels/queries they won't all fit on my screen at once < 1236727468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1236727470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tabs for them, I mea < 1236727472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1236727484 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine too, but i keep stretching the window to overcome that < 1236727484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now you're on 581 < 1236727485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, tree view > tabs < 1236727486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, GUIs. < 1236727491 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, wouldn't it take up more space? < 1236727508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird sets modes [#eso +b AnMaster!*@*] < 1236727508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have been kicked from #ESO by ehird (ehird) < 1236727511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what ground? < 1236727511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said. < 1236727512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's a horizontal row of tabs < 1236727513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :582-- < 1236727518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, vertical < 1236727539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with small font. Tabs take more space < 1236727554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ISO C forbids modification of an integral constant < 1236727565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never saw any reason you said < 1236727565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's forte++ < 1236727566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236727572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep < 1236727572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do I have to give a reason? < 1236727576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's in freenode policy < 1236727579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to word the error message as gcc -pedantic would give < 1236727587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give the impression that gcc without -pedantic wouldn't care < 1236727588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh. Oppression and censorship < 1236727589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, heh < 1236727589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236727594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the clarification < 1236727600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you trying to be funny? it's not working. < 1236727616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I'm sarcastic. At most. < 1236727666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping #define 582 would work but evidently not. < 1236727695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, identifier in C is [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]* < 1236727709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp!=C < 1236727710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and I was hoping #define would not want identifiers. < 1236727720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same for cpp... < 1236727722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236727724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cpp's pp-token definition of identifiers is the same as the main lexer's, though < 1236727724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the spec < 1236727727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in this case it doesn't matte < 1236727729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matter < 1236727737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to why Deewiant tried. < 1236727740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried something like that today < 1236727744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I know < 1236727746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not immediately obvious that #define's first parameter is a C identifier. < 1236727749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matte, either, because it prefers to gloss over the issue < 1236727756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, OK < 1236727759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236727762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JVM segfaults, yay < 1236727763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to AnMaster, not ais523. < 1236727770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't matte, either, because it prefers to gloss over the issue <-- what a horrible pun < 1236727782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I should really have done /nick oerjan first < 1236727786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236727795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1236727805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. I have a swatter now. < 1236727808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236727815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client does nick tracking < 1236727816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs swatter -> < 1236727817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches oerjan in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ < 1236727824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaa! It disintegrated... < 1236727824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ehird < 1236727831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The swatter requires oerjan-nature. :( < 1236727832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whoa. I have a swatter now. < 1236727834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1236727837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236727841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your client tracks nick changes? < 1236727847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " my client does nick tracking" < 1236727847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236727851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only said that < 1236727853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1236727858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, missed that < 1236727974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGNE... Hm < 1236727985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of alarm is that supposed to be? < 1236728000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the system call alarm() < 1236728006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the SIGALRM singal < 1236728010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's misspelt as < 1236728017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGALRM maybe < 1236728019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236728027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could check cfunge source < 1236728029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGARETTE < 1236728046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGALRM < 1236728050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGNATURE < 1236728055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I couldn't: < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef FUZZ_TESTING < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alarm(3); < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1236728058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1236728065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page had it of course < 1236728069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236728075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is saving one char worth it? < 1236728084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "creat" < 1236728091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly Why? < 1236728092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's easier to fit into an 8.3 filename, probably < 1236728101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C and UNIX are concise. < 1236728106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't like it, take a look at Windows. < 1236728108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was a facetious response...) < 1236728115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, posix_spawn()? < 1236728120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX != UNIX < 1236728125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the original unix spirit. < 1236728179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fegetexceptflag() ? < 1236728188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it is < 1236728191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is *nix < 1236728203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236728207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math exception related < 1236728213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO < 1236728213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IEC 60559 (IEC 559:1989), ANSI/IEEE 854, C99, POSIX.1-2001. < 1236728219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the original UNIX spirit < 1236728228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. It is C < 1236728232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is blindingly obvious; anything older than the early 80s isn't. < 1236728234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't make sense < 1236728243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identifiers are only unique up to 8 chars < 1236728244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1236728245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236728250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did C99 remove that? < 1236728253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only guaranteed to be. < 1236728258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236728258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's six chars, case-insensitive. < 1236728260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any implementation actually does that < 1236728266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C99 has longer identifiers < 1236728269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only for external identifiers. < 1236728281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but C99 has longer ones < 1236728281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 allows 31 characters for internal identifiers. < 1236728300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco woul dbe nicer if you could use something else instead of < 1236728316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a script to do it < 1236728319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it uh... < 1236728320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just use xmodmap or the OS X equivalent to remap onto, say, e < 1236728321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1236728323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor macros? < 1236728326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco wraps the terminal < 1236728328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMACS for short < 1236728333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about no :D < 1236728338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that'd stop me putting e into code < 1236728355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use ctrl-c or something < 1236728369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you forgot os x probably doesn't have that < 1236728379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple say, user do < 1236728380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236728381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does. < 1236728384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? it has everything else < 1236728390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all keyboard layouts are regular plist files < 1236728395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify them, make your own, etc etc etc < 1236728397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236728399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236728401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are apps to make it even easier (point and click) < 1236728403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no GUI though < 1236728409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well third party ones < 1236728409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are gui apps to make it easier < 1236728419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's such a rare operation that not including a gui for it isn't exactly unsurprising < 1236728425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ubuntu ship with an editor for keyboard layouts? < 1236728427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236728452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed that N repeats X N times in TECO. That's way too simple. < 1236728453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does OS X include a good package manager that can be used to get lots of stuff like font editors and such btw? < 1236728460 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236728477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you do that for non-fixed N? < 1236728478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacPorts is semi-official and a few clicks away, but it's mostly useful for CLI apps. < 1236728497 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236728498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know. < 1236728508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet < 1236728508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why would you need MacPorts to do nonfixed loops in TECO? < 1236728509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2+2<^AHello^A>$$ < 1236728509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HelloHelloHelloHello* < 1236728511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1236728513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1236728517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... < 1236728524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too good a message combination to ignore < 1236728526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need multi tasking < 1236728537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a joke < 1236728539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236728560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should scientifically prove that AnMaster can never recognize a joke first time round, no matter how blatant :D < 1236728571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ubuntu doesn't ship with such an editor, but I found one in the repos in about 20 seconds of searching < 1236728575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has no funny bone < 1236728576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my guess < 1236728586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I found one in 15 seconds with google last time I wanted to do that :P < 1236728590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can. I enjoy discworld books < 1236728598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for Mac OS X? < 1236728602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do we know you don't consider them non-fiction? < 1236728603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1236728607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236728612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=os+x+keyboard+layout+editor&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 < 1236728615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is Ukelele < 1236728618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I used and is great < 1236728619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well they are in a way a parody of the real world. < 1236728626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but fictional of course < 1236728630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found xkeycaps, which I haven't tried to use < 1236728637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed install < 1236728641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we *don't* live on A'Tuin < 1236728644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1236728647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes we do! < 1236728675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1/0<^Awtf^A>$$ < 1236728675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1236728678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just in: 1/0 is 0. < 1236728680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah. Actually I do believe we have been in space. And live on a world. Lets call it roundworld. < 1236728684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, 0*0=1. < 1236728703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um Funge has 1/0 = 0 too < 1236728713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly. < 1236728715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 that is < 1236728718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not prompt the user? < 1236728720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. 93 is sillyt < 1236728722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly* < 1236728726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 is prompt user < 1236728727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, 10/ should be a reflection in 98 < 1236728733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/0 = 0 is probably one of the least useful values you can give < 1236728737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, specs disagree < 1236728742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"should" < 1236728742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236728743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not is < 1236728749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1236728752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about what IMO the specs should say, not what they do so < 1236728755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do say < 1236728773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUT IT IN FUNGE-109 < 1236728773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL standard library returns 0 on division by 0 < 1236728774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236728781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange as it errors on overflow when doing addition < 1236728784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write cat in teco. Hm. < 1236728786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 109 should use option packages < 1236728793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like posix does < 1236728794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236728800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah bad idea < 1236728827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(man posixoptions on a linux system, *bsd doesn't have the man page iirc. Go check your local POSIX copy) < 1236728836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, ER/dev/stdout$$ doesn't work < 1236728837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236728842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does have a release copy of POSIX.1-2008 < 1236728847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236728852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has special stdin/stdout support it seems < 1236728853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how much did it cost you < 1236728857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 0 < 1236728873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one available for free, then? < 1236728881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "free to members" < 1236728890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a member of posix? < 1236728900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is free yes. Interested party < 1236728903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means you are on a mailing list < 1236728906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236728911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is quite different from "gold member" < 1236728913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can anyone get a copy just by joining a mailing list? < 1236728919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically yes < 1236728933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are a member of austin group mailing list < 1236728937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why anyone buys it, if that is the case < 1236728940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236728942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you/I/ < 1236728949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have identity problems < 1236728951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IIHello, world!$@I $ @I $ $$ < 1236728973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is a bit hard to find. < 1236728988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inserts IHello, world!, you could also just do @I/IHello, world!/@I//, but that's less fun) < 1236729005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't on the member area of austin group. You can only find the last draft there < 1236729018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have to use the same login on the main opengroup site in the bookstore section < 1236729019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, V = 0TT < 1236729020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice to know < 1236729022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it for free < 1236729025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, drafts are more fun to read than the actual standard < 1236729042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? There is one useful one that is a diff against the previous version < 1236729049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pdf < 1236729070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all of posix in one pdf make jack swap trash < 1236729086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, how big is it? < 1236729087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf < 1236729087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? is your PDF reader bloated? < 1236729093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 3872 pages < 1236729096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders if PDF is streamable < 1236729096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in megs < 1236729107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 MB < 1236729111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1236729114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 is pretty small < 1236729119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have 14MB memory... < 1236729120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 14MB pdf would be like... 50MB in memory < 1236729123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(parsed) < 1236729127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I suspect kpdf renders badly < 1236729138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. it isn't "optimised" one < 1236729140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use Evince, although I have kpdf and xpdf here too < 1236729142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to pdfinfo < 1236729152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have firefox running < 1236729155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preview.app renders pdfs faster than just about anything that isn't xpdf < 1236729164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the result is swap trash < 1236729167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I didn't realise xpdf was that fast < 1236729172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 3872 pages? < 1236729173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be < 1236729180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, POSIX. As PDF < 1236729185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: slightly smaller than an OOXML < 1236729186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an x in the name, so I get the impression of a ridiculously fast but useless program < 1236729192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about 2/5 the size of OOXML + corrections < 1236729193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, an OOXML < 1236729195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1236729198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best measure of size ever < 1236729210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236729239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X/Open Curses Issue 4 < 1236729241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nice too < 1236729250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the pdf is fail < 1236729252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no index < 1236729275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yes an index. "Page 1" "Page 2" < 1236729276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it < 1236729284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 316 pages in total really < 1236729316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby officially found the Esolanger's TECO User Group. < 1236729317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Issue 4, version 2 < 1236729323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who uses TECO for writing esoprograms is welcome. < 1236729339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suggest you should require teco as main editor < 1236729344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, TECO even escapes its output for you < 1236729345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0I$$ < 1236729346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0T$$ < 1236729348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@* < 1236729350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so friendly! < 1236729363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the programs must be written in TECO < 1236729367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Anyone who uses TECO for writing esoprograms is welcome." <-- Using TECO as editor to write befunge? < 1236729379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236729383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, using TECO as an editor to write TECO programs that don't just edit text. < 1236729391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1236729391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although using TECO for _anything_ probably qualifies. < 1236729396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236729398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why write in esolangs? < 1236729402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun. < 1236729414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Why not teco for main editor < 1236729422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without writing non-text editing < 1236729429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you said it qualifies too < 1236729437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then couldn't be admitted < 1236729449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1236729469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use teco as my main editor < 1236729479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fill up the screen with an indeterminate amount of 'a's: ^B<^Aa^A>" < 1236729483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you missed "I" < 1236729483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236729487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^B Operating-system dependent encoding of current date < 1236729487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RT-11: (((month*32)+day)*32)+year-1972 < 1236729488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1236729489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSTS/E: ((year-1970)*1000)+day within year < 1236729491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSX-11: ((year-1900)*16+month)*32+day) < 1236729504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16+month? < 1236729511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236729517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ((year-1900)*16)+month < 1236729523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that last one look almost like befunge... < 1236729524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*32+day < 1236729525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236729525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it's a bit strange < 1236729529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236729533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's using bitshifts < 1236729535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236729539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to speed up the arithmetic slightly < 1236729542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh yes < 1236729546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst making it harder to compare dates < 1236729554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push(pushStack, (funge_cell)(curTime->tm_year * 256 * 256 + (curTime->tm_mon + 1) * 256 + curTime->tm_mday)); < 1236729558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push(pushStack, (funge_cell)(curTime->tm_hour * 256 * 256 + curTime->tm_min * 256 + curTime->tm_sec)); < 1236729573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I let compiler optimise. It is smart enough < 1236729586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A start on cat: < 1236729589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^T<^Aa^A>