00:00:07 Upon execution, reads one char from the terminal (as soon as you hit it) and outputs a number of as corresponding to its ascii code. 00:00:15 ehird, that looks like a Japanese smiley on steroids 00:00:36 well, ^A is a smiley face in IBM-extended 00:00:46 ais523, no... not that way 00:00:47 but 00:00:51 ^<^_^> 00:00:54 or such 00:00:54 we know 00:00:56 we know 00:01:04 ehird, why repeat 00:01:13 because you continued :P 00:01:15 ^<^_^> 00:01:15 or such 00:01:15 we know 00:01:15 we know 00:01:16 wrong 00:01:23 network lag, heard of it? 00:01:31 ehird, yes, you haven't though 00:01:41 you could have seen that it was close enough to have lag risk 00:01:55 instead of being rude 00:02:01 I wasn't rude. 00:02:06 TECO "Lock screen" mode: <>$$ (Password is Ctrl-C) 00:02:18 err hah 00:02:29 ehird, not very secure 00:02:32 Better: 00:02:34 <^A 00:02:34 well I guess against noobs 00:02:36 ^A>$$ 00:02:38 ehird, hm? 00:02:42 Clears screen indefinitely. 00:02:45 hm 00:02:47 until ^C 00:02:50 i.e. outputs infinite newlines. 00:03:16 Also !a!Oa$$ 00:03:19 !foo! = label 00:03:23 Olabel$ = jump 00:03:42 hm nice 00:03:58 ehird, how do you escape an escape char? 00:04:09 Use a different delimiter 00:04:13 ah righ 00:04:13 @O/label/$ 00:04:16 right* 00:04:17 @I/foo/ 00:04:18 etc 00:04:36 ehird, any way to include every char in a string? 00:04:45 I guess concat or such? 00:04:48 Do it as two strings. 00:04:57 and concat? 00:05:10 Well, there's no contact. 00:05:14 hm ok 00:05:15 Just do @I/.../ @I!/! 00:05:50 oh wow 00:05:54 TECO uses " as open loop and ' as end loop 00:06:07 ais523: you should put that in intercal 00:06:12 err 00:06:16 they are already in use 00:06:22 what? 00:06:22 ehird: the comparison to INTERCAL got me too 00:06:27 AnMaster: that's never stopped it before 00:06:34 what do you mean 00:06:35 already in use? 00:06:40 ehird, also where is the guide to teco? 00:06:41 ehird: you forgot about INTERCAL parens 00:06:43 that you use 00:06:46 http://web.archive.org/web/20080207025702/http://zane.brouhaha.com/~healyzh/teco/TecoPocketGuide.html 00:06:50 ais523: no, i was augmenting them 00:06:57 AnMaster: & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Editor_and_Corrector 00:07:05 I don't /think/ it leads to an ambiguous grammar 00:07:09 & playing around in the console of http://almy.us/teco.html 00:07:22 ais523, more than already? 00:07:32 ais523, since " *is* already ambig. 00:07:36 iirc 00:08:48 anyway, I can't see myself using ed any more 00:10:12 because you have TECO? 00:10:21 AnMaster: not ambiguous, just requires infinite lookahead to parse correctly 00:10:57 ais523: bingo 00:11:15 ais523, well true 00:11:25 need to figure out how to write scripts and init files etc 00:14:23 http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/mar/07/its_big_guy_vs_little_guy74198/ 00:14:24 Er, wow. 00:15:27 ais523: do you have a teco there? 00:15:45 no, not on me 00:17:06 incidentally, ! label ! doubles as a comment. 00:17:42 yes, I know 00:17:53 ! is toggle-comment if your comments are unlabelly enough 00:17:57 ugh, I have to put a file called TECO.INI in ~/ to get it to recognize it 00:18:30 ehird, wow at that link too 00:18:37 ehird, nice. In upper case? 00:18:44 hfs+ is case insensitive 00:18:47 well 00:18:52 the program should check 00:18:54 what it got 00:18:55 to make sure 00:19:11 * AnMaster ponders adding that to cfunge: 00:19:21 % mung 00:19:22 ?How can I MUNG nothing? 00:19:25 that's a beautiful error 00:19:32 in fact, all systems should respond to `mung` with that 00:19:42 no matter if they have a TECO or not 00:20:04 if (strcmp(programname,filename) != 0) { fputs("Cfunge is case sensitive for file names\n", stderr); exit(1); } 00:20:07 what about that? 00:20:16 ehird: what does mung do? 00:20:27 AnMaster: "Cfunge"? how ironic. 00:20:36 ais523: It MUNGs Until No Good. (Runs a TECO batch script.) 00:20:37 ehird, yes. It was intentional 00:21:04 what do you mean, case sensitive for file names? 00:21:28 ais523, OS X will give you "foo.bf" when you request "FOO.bf" 00:21:41 ais523, I planned to reverse that ;) 00:21:45 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-03] % tecoc make hello.tec 00:21:45 *@I/^AHello, world! 00:21:46 ^A$EX/$EX$$ 00:21:48 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-03] % mung hello.tec 00:21:50 Hello, world! 00:21:57 AnMaster: it'll give FoO.bf if you had named it that 00:21:58 ais523: It MUNGs Until No Good. (Runs a TECO batch script.) <-- DON'T GIVE UP 00:22:06 ehird, exactly 00:22:14 AnMaster: what about that snippet of intercal 00:22:26 oh wow 00:22:27 ehird, "until no good" sounded so intercal-y 00:22:28 the TECO manual! 00:22:32 <3 00:22:33 ehird, WHERE!? 00:22:35 Copyright (C) 1979, 1985 TECO SIG 00:22:39 AnMaster: http://almy.us/files/tecodoc.zip 00:22:40 teco.doc 00:22:44 (its plaintext) 00:22:57 * ehird makes a TECO shrine 00:23:04 ehird, a listing says "Long filenames are supported" 00:23:07 ... 00:23:08 yep 00:23:11 wth 00:23:16 DOS long filenames 00:23:20 strange zip 00:23:21 The contents: "Yes, long file names are supported in this version of TECO!" 00:23:26 ah 00:24:35 ehird, if you go TECO I should go Genera. Have to get around testing it 00:24:40 get around to* 00:24:49 well, genera just uses an emacs-alike 00:25:02 ehird, and emacs is teco lookalike? 00:25:12 or was 00:25:14 heh 00:25:30 gnu emacs is quite far from it 00:25:52 If you include unusual commands in your initialization file, you 00:25:52 would be prudent to surround such commands with the ? command. 00:25:54 This causes TECO to type the commands out when they are executed 00:25:56 (see section 5.18.4). You should also print an informative 00:25:58 message on the terminal reminding other users that this version 00:26:00 of TECO has been customized. 00:26:02 "You know, in case a burglar enters your house and starts teco." 00:26:13 err 00:26:20 multi-user single login? 00:26:27 People using your terminal. 00:26:30 Not uncommon in the 80s. 00:26:35 ehird, hm 00:26:44 ehird, wouldn't they have separate logins? 00:27:01 Logging out and in would be a pain. 00:27:05 oh right 00:27:09 Remember, really slow. 00:27:09 no fast user switching 00:27:32 which microsoft introduced as "new in XP" but Linux and other *nix had for ages before 00:27:52 * AnMaster switches vt 00:27:53 fast user switching is a ridiculous name for the term, anyway 00:27:59 it's just the ability to have multiple graphical VTs 00:28:03 logged in as different people 00:28:05 on one computer 00:28:14 tell that to john q public 00:28:23 well, yes, it's all about the advertising 00:28:26 ais523, yes. I used to use 2 graphical VTs ages ago 00:28:28 fast user switching: you can switch between users without logging in and out 00:28:33 simple 00:28:48 universal binary ("dual-architechture Mach-O binary"): it works on powerpc and intel macs. 00:28:49 ehird, yes I could do it on Linux for ages 00:28:56 AnMaster: I'm talking about terminology with ais523 00:29:03 now, that description really doesn't do it for the general public either 00:29:06 ok dual arch... 00:29:09 the without logging in and out 00:29:10 now that isn't common in ELF 00:29:12 why would they want to do that? 00:29:13 afaik 00:29:13 ais523: sure it does 00:29:17 it just makes it harder to shut down the computer 00:29:25 I know, I was with a couple of general public ages ago 00:29:28 well, OS X has promoted multiple users from the start 00:29:31 who were thinking about it 00:29:37 so that's windows thinking, probably 00:29:43 the problem was they were just hitting switch user not logout by mistake when they wanted to logout 00:29:46 and yes, Windows thinking 00:29:48 it just makes it harder to shut down the computer <-- ? 00:29:55 AnMaster: think about it from a user with one account 00:29:58 00:29:55 up 38 days, 9:44, 35 users, load average: 0.15, 0.17, 0.18 00:29:59 log out just lets them 00:29:59 ... 00:30:00 1) log back in 00:30:02 2) shut down 00:30:04 why would they want to log out? 00:30:11 why would they want to shutdown? 00:30:12 (RHETORICAL QUESTION RHETORICAL QUESTION RHETORICAL QUESTION) 00:30:12 they couldn't figure out what the difference was, or why they wouldn't want to log out to let someone else use the computer 00:30:19 AnMaster: because of saving electricity, of course 00:30:20 also RHETORICAL 00:30:24 besides, it's bad to leave computers on overnight 00:30:34 ehird: and switch user is even more useless on a single-person computer than log out 00:30:36 ais523, well ok, most people don't run BOINC 00:30:40 during night 00:30:48 ais523, but what about suspend to disk 00:30:53 AnMaster: yeah, that will be so useful when the planet dies out 00:30:54 forgot what windows call it 00:30:58 hibernate? only when they're in the middle of something 00:30:59 more useless seti results! 00:31:07 (ais523: I leave mine on standby overnight. All the startup speed, much less power usage.) 00:31:16 ehird, no, I run folding at home 00:31:19 ehird: I shut this down, but then, it's a laptop 00:31:21 it uses boinc too 00:31:25 has folding at home got any real results yet? 00:31:30 I used to run climateprediction 00:31:46 ehird, not that I remember. But I don't check their website really 00:31:56 AnMaster: also, why do you use a proprietary program, ey? 00:32:05 anyway, recently one of them was complaining about not knowing how to move a file from a USB stick to a directory in Windows 00:32:14 that confuses me, I thought it was a simple operation even in Windows... 00:32:21 also, running BOINC overnight would be fucking crazy on this 00:32:26 it seems they couldn't figure out how to open two graphical directory entries at once 00:32:29 since the fans would spin to full speed due to 200% CPU usage 00:32:42 boinc is LGPL-2.1 00:32:44 (and in future (post upgrade), the _two_ fans will go bezerk due to 800% CPU usage...) 00:32:48 (good luck sleeping through that!) 00:32:50 I just checked 00:33:11 ehird, my system has constant speed fans 00:33:34 my system's fans are pretty much always either off or so low I can't hear them without trying 00:33:42 I imagine a Mac Pro's fans are rather powerful 00:33:45 + I sleep in a separate room due to two small rooms and not being able to fit desk and bed in same room 00:34:00 does it occur to anyone that fans are kind of a hack solution to the "our hardware runs hot" problem? :D 00:34:11 ehird, yes. 00:34:14 get water cooling 00:34:21 I don't think apple offers that 00:34:32 ehird, iirc they did on some G5 iirc? 00:34:42 maybe 00:34:49 not for years, though, then 00:34:51 ehird, the 8 core Mac Pro G5 or something 00:34:52 iirc 00:35:09 i've seen pictures of the new 8 core nahelem mac pro 00:35:11 *nehalem 00:35:13 two fans 00:35:19 well the one I remember was definitely PPC 00:36:04 AnMaster: also, why do you use a proprietary program, ey? <-- so. What did you mean. boinc is open source 00:36:14 wp says folding@home is propreitary 00:36:28 oh, so that's how you solve dust in tower computers, blow them with compressed air 00:36:28 ok that may be true 00:36:29 I always wondere 00:36:30 d 00:36:30 I haven't checked 00:36:43 ehird, err of course. what did you expect? 00:36:52 i dunno, I just let my old tower get dusty :D 00:36:53 and how did you solve it for your own computer? 00:37:11 note, however, that this room is exceptionally dusty 00:37:13 ehird, be careful or you will get a dust puppy. And since you _hate_ uf 00:37:23 due to it being old and having tons and tons of crap I never touch covered with dust 00:37:28 need to fix that sometime 00:37:30 ehird, clean? 00:37:31 yep, compressed air's the usual way 00:37:47 ehird 00:37:47 rm -rf dust 00:37:54 AnMaster: it's also a big room, I'd have to get a big ladder and everything and dig under all the shit and whatnot 00:38:04 ais523, filters prolongs the period between cleaning 00:38:06 very useful 00:38:16 you're not the guy I would expect to deliver a shitjudgement due to not reading about the case 00:38:22 comex: :D 00:38:25 ehird, don't you clean your room every now and then 00:38:31 when I was your age... 00:38:37 AnMaster: yes, but it's near-impossible to clean every single bit of the room 00:38:41 my parents forced me to clean a lot 00:38:43 if you saw it you'd understand 00:38:52 ehird, pic or it didn't happen 00:38:56 hmm, an air filter ay? 00:39:06 ehird, for computers? Yes a very good idea 00:39:09 do they make much noise? 00:39:18 ehird, um. *passive filter* 00:39:20 (^joke) 00:39:30 you take them out and clean them every month or so 00:39:36 (^joke) <-- see 00:39:38 well in a dusty room maybe more often 00:39:49 ehird, yes. But lag made it arrive later 00:40:02 do they make much noise? ehird, um. *passive filter* you take them out and clean them every month or so (^joke) 00:40:21 (^joke) <-- see well in a dusty room maybe more often ehird, yes. But lag made it arrive later 00:40:37 My main strategy would be to remove all the rubbish I never use to somewhere. 00:40:41 that would solve about 85% of the problem 00:41:03 ehird, pic!!! 00:41:11 I'll give you a pic post-cleaning :P 00:41:17 ehird, pre please 00:41:23 I want it when I'm still young 00:41:28 XD 00:42:21 ehird, I *have* been your age so I know the issue 00:42:37 when you grow a bit older it will be paper. Lots of paper 00:42:39 all over the room 00:42:52 in your age it was iirc old lego technic and such 00:42:57 XD 00:43:04 ehird, did it match? 00:43:13 ? 00:43:29 dusty boxes with lego technic... around 13 00:43:31 all over the room 00:43:41 http://www.avforums.com/forums/computer-systems/56924-kramer-other-members-promoting-water-cooling-you-have-alot-answer.html <--- hahahahaha 00:43:44 I had lots of lego when young 00:43:50 AnMaster: I think I grew out of lego and stuff when I was like 10 00:43:51 :\ 00:43:58 ehird, well I said *dusty* 00:44:04 True. 00:44:18 ehird, also it depends on what lego. The Mindstorms thing that you can program in C lasts a bit longer 00:44:19 :P 00:44:24 * AnMaster has that somewhere 00:44:41 haha, I like the suggestion further along that thread to put fish in the cooling 00:44:44 also programming it in C is unsupported 00:44:53 Ah, that good ol' topic :D 00:45:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:48:57 hrmph, teco should read ~/.teco :( 00:49:32 "I did wrap the power supply unit in cling film plastic wrap before I filled it with water" 00:49:32 XD XD XD 00:49:51 http://www.avforums.com/forums/computer-systems/56924-kramer-other-members-promoting-water-cooling-you-have-alot-answer.html <--- hahahahaha <-- don't have time to read it all, is it a windup or not? 00:49:59 i don't know, it's just funny either way 00:50:27 IIRC it is, but it took some pages until he told them 00:56:54 hm 00:56:56 passive cooling 00:57:00 would rock 00:57:07 like my mobile phone, no fan 00:57:32 so a HUGE heat sink 00:58:12 XD 00:58:23 AnMaster: that would be rather a fire hazard 00:58:31 ehird, you mean with dust? 00:58:39 hm 00:58:43 I meant 00:58:46 if you thrash the cpu a lot 00:59:05 ehird, of course it would have to be dimensioned for the climate and load 00:59:22 and possibly have a backup fan in if the worst come to the worst 01:00:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2007TaipeiITMonth_IntelOCLiveTest_Overclocking-6.jpg 01:00:30 i like that picture. 01:00:47 "OH IT IS RUNNING A BIT HOT WELL HER IS SOME LIQUID NITROGEN" 01:00:50 *HERE 01:01:29 hehe 01:02:10 ehird, why is part protected by a piece of fabric? 01:02:18 risk of getting too cool? 01:02:28 hmm 01:02:29 not sure 01:03:49 you know, the fact that adding more cores gives better performance increases than piling on ghz hasn't registered in my brain yet 01:04:10 its native comparison routine rates an old single-core 3ghz above 2 x quad-core 2.2ghz... 01:04:19 so I have to emulate it in software instead :P 01:04:39 brains need hot-swappable kernel updates 01:04:48 like, we could give old fogeys society boosterpacks. 01:05:00 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 01:06:29 ehird, err 01:06:38 ehird, depends on task if more cores > better 01:06:50 you hit a scalability limit at some point 01:06:54 when overhead is too large 01:07:07 of sync stuff 01:07:09 well, yes, but I think you'd agree that a 1 core 3ghz processor from 2006 is a lot worse in most cases than two quad-core 2.2ghz intel nehalems from november 2008 01:07:15 where most means almost all 01:07:34 yes. And even more so if the 1 core one is a Pentium 4 01:07:43 ehird, but other stuff improved too 01:07:49 ofc 01:07:52 more advanced SSE for example 01:08:00 like SSE4 or whatever we are at now 01:08:24 it's just that my internal brain's cpu comparison routine is (a b -> compare(a.ghz, b.ghz)) 01:08:28 which is very broken :D 01:08:57 yes it is 01:09:06 good thing I don't have to perform that very often 01:09:09 ehird, also my brain does it in mhz 01:09:20 heh, my brain works at a granularity of X.Yghz 01:09:21 then it realises that we hit 1 GHz ages ago 01:09:35 1ghz? my mom used that as a kid. :| 01:09:51 and then it remembers mhz/ghz is a silly way to compare 01:09:57 ehird, err probably not 01:10:05 it was an exaggerationjoke. 01:10:10 ok 01:10:24 Back then the order of the day was FORTRAN and LISP on big mainframes and punchcards :P 01:10:32 indeed 01:10:38 ehird, you used pre-ghz? 01:10:44 Hrmmm. 01:10:50 I mean, not mobile phones and such 01:11:06 In 1998 I had a Windows 3.11 computer (yes, way obsolete at the time, parents were poor) 01:11:06 or old system, but contemporary ones 01:11:12 That was probably pre-ghz. 01:11:24 It had a 15" non-flat CRT screen xD 01:11:27 ehird, your parents got a lot more money now then. with you getting an upgrade soon 01:11:32 lucky you 01:11:39 mostly my money 01:11:50 even luckier you 01:11:52 and the Apple Tax makes it a bit of a stretch :-D 01:11:54 where did you get it?! 01:12:02 apple tax? 01:12:16 apple tax = the purely insane amount of money apple adds on to the actual value of the hardware 01:12:18 ehird, as someone living in UK you should prefer Acorn 01:12:25 I used an Acorn PC in school! 01:12:26 a pitty they no longer exist 01:12:28 oh? 01:12:29 cool 01:12:37 ehird, you know ARM is all that remains of Acorn 01:12:42 :< 01:12:51 RISC OS was nic 01:12:51 e 01:12:54 well yes 01:12:57 so was Genera 01:13:15 ehird, there is always !Befunge for you on RISC OS 01:13:20 haha, yep 01:13:22 too bad it sucks 01:13:38 well it used to be next best after ccbi 01:13:41 back before cfunge 01:17:59 true 01:18:03 the author updates his site regularly, it seems 01:18:09 has Deewiant contacted him about updating !Befunge? 01:19:05 ehird, nah 01:19:13 ehird, he didn't contact Mike either 01:19:17 mm 01:19:20 he said it wasn't his job 01:19:22 i might contact him :) 01:19:25 :P 01:19:37 ehird, I often thought about it, but "meh" 01:19:54 it'd be nice to have more competition 01:22:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:25:46 bye 01:26:19 hm? 01:31:37 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:59:50 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sgeo[Scrubs]. 02:18:04 -!- Deewiant_ has joined. 02:18:09 -!- fizzie has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 02:18:09 -!- fungot has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 02:18:09 -!- Deewiant has quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 02:18:20 -!- fungot has joined. 02:18:20 -!- fizzie has joined. 02:18:20 -!- Deewiant has joined. 02:19:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Connection reset by peer). 02:20:13 -!- Ilari_ has joined. 02:25:13 -!- Ilari has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:38:17 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 02:43:39 -!- Ilari_ has changed nick to Ilari. 02:53:07 * kerlo blinks 02:53:19 Who's been using Unicode in here? 03:07:54 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:47:14 -!- Sgeo[Scrubs] has changed nick to Sgeo. 04:15:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:26:11 unicode is evil 04:26:47 * kerlo scribbles on a piece of paper 04:27:20 ehird's mom is probably 31 or older. 04:27:50 95% 04:27:56 Therefore, she was only a kid at least seven years ago. 04:28:03 Are you giving me the probability of her being 31 or older? 04:28:11 yes 04:29:03 For what n is the probability of her being n or older 50%? 04:29:47 hmmm 04:29:55 45 04:30:07 no, 43 04:30:14 no, 45 04:30:15 * kerlo scribbles more 04:30:21 final answer 04:30:58 My n is 41. Final answer. 04:31:03 So, let's fight to the death. 04:31:41 ehird, how old is your mom? 05:06:31 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 05:06:57 ehird! 05:07:21 or anyone else interested in delightful discoveries about fractals and such 05:07:53 listen up! 05:07:55 do this: 05:08:32 on a grid, with lines labeled from 0 05:09:43 take the bitwise logical operation of the gridline numbers (e.g. at the point (4,12) take, say, the bitwise nand of 4 and 12). if the result is 0, draw a circle on the point. 05:09:54 or make some other obvious mark. 05:10:09 do this for, say... an 8x8 or 16x16 grid. 05:10:48 or if you're slick, code it up using a graphics API and see what results for decently sized space, say 512x512 05:14:13 or something like that. :P 05:14:31 i forget whether its if the result is 0, or below some value, or whatever. anyway, you get the idea. 05:15:00 and works too, i think. 05:17:54 yeah, if you do an AND, that works. 05:23:32 -!- kerlo has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | ascii z. 05:23:35 -!- kerlo has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | ascii plz. 06:01:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Client Excited"). 06:11:23 ONE ASCII TO RULE THEM ALL 06:16:50 -!- MizardX has joined. 06:56:27 -!- neldoreth has joined. 07:27:49 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 07:28:55 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:38:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:13 -!- asiekierk has joined. 08:00:27 oh my god i'm going to build a mechanical tv probably 08:04:51 I suggest starting out somewhat easy... 08:05:11 Build a mechanical color adaptor. ;p 08:15:17 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 08:20:25 pikhq: As in, a color mechanical tv? 08:21:01 Easy. Make a small color wheel, speed up the nipkow disc and make the color wheel spin too, make the proper image and BAM! CBS/Baird/Nipkow color TV! 08:25:08 Well, I was thinking color wheel disk for a standard B&W NTSC TV. 08:25:13 And yes, it has been done. 08:26:14 Even NTSC for NBTV has been done by one guy 08:27:06 it's called "NBSC" 08:27:20 now i'm waiting for someone to do PAL for NBTV... but that lacks a good name 08:28:41 NB-PAL? 08:31:06 Also, I am wondering whether you can make a Nipkow camera by switching the LED with a light sensor... 08:31:16 as in, swapping them in the device 08:31:22 so no LED but a light sensor 08:31:26 then transmit that to the PC 08:31:28 Don't see why not. 08:31:28 exchange parts 08:31:35 and bam! Nipkow Camera/TV! 08:32:37 Also, pikhq, did you build a mechanical TV once? 08:43:31 No, but it seems like something I could do. 08:47:32 I'm currently looking for a good tutorial 09:39:27 And I'm wondering why am I converting the copy of the first Baird-system play 09:39:45 "The Man with the Flower in his Mouth" 09:39:49 into the NBTV standard 09:41:03 30% 09:41:09 -!- tombom has joined. 09:46:22 74%, somehow :P 09:47:22 About 3 minutes left, then I'll start working on my Televisor, then convert the play from "prepared" AVI to the WAV, then play it from somewhere (my Wii, possibly) and WIN 09:48:16 90% - 1 minute left :) 09:58:29 augh, need to re-convert it 09:58:36 but does it quite quickly :) 09:59:07 converting to WAV 09:59:56 way too fast, it does like, half a minute of the movie in a second 10:00:42 well, it actually does 5 seconds/second :P 10:00:46 and done :) 10:01:40 oh yay, the awesome sound of the NBTV :) 10:01:49 i must reconvert it though :( 10:04:15 done :) 10:04:22 Now I will need to make the Nipkow disk 10:20:28 Having fun? 10:57:30 unicode is evil <-- wrong 10:57:42 kerlo, bsmntbombdood: åäö åäö åäö 10:58:32 i think i just made the coolest testcard/opening ever 10:58:34 well, the opening is 10:58:51 20 seconds of the ye` ole` BBC countdown along with a 15-second clock and numbers for the last 3 seconds 11:00:40 Spiffy. 11:01:08 and of course 11:01:13 when I was frame-tuning the whole thing 11:01:15 Sony Vegas crashed 11:01:26 hopefully it has autosave 11:04:34 the thing takes exactly 2 minutes and 30 seconds 11:04:38 and has a bunch of NBTV testcards 11:04:41 1 reproduced by me 11:04:45 another made by me 11:04:51 and some other mini-testcards from the 'net 11:05:24 I've got to admit, NBTV is rather clever... 11:06:19 nope, it'll take 2 minutes and 15 seconds 11:06:57 I can send it to you if you want 11:07:38 Sure, why not? 11:07:51 The tuning signals and testcards take about 1 minute 50 seconds 11:07:55 the rest is the "mini-clock" 11:08:10 Might be tempted to build a Nipkow-disc TV set some time soon... 11:08:13 :) 11:08:18 Remember my video is 32x48 11:08:30 not for downscaling, it's all mostly pixel-by-pixel already 11:08:35 Do you want WAV format or the original WMV? 11:08:36 Maybe get an NTSC->Nipkow converter going for the hell of it. ;p 11:08:44 Yes? 11:09:03 Which format do you want 11:09:17 the WAV format which you can play into your NBTV (left channel - video, right channel - mono audio) 11:09:21 Both, if you don't mind? 11:09:31 Actually, you can convert a WMV to a WAV 11:09:37 but you first need to convert it to AVI for some reason 11:09:58 I will give you the link for the converter 11:10:02 it can also live-convert videos 11:10:08 and I converted "Man with the flower in his mouth" for it 11:11:17 I will send you the installer and the BMPs with it (why not?) 11:11:41 my testcard is also availble in "lame color version", btw, but i think you can just convert SMPTE bars to it 11:12:55 Also, it doesn't really want to convert the WMV, will need to encode in higher res maybe :( 11:13:28 wait, i think directshow+ffmpeg did it 11:13:41 yep, sorta 11:15:32 wait, i encoded a thing wrongly 11:17:11 sending you the pack 11:17:25 Video2NBTV (the AVI->NBTV converter), my testcard set and the AVI 11:17:43 give me your email tho 11:53:00 I've always wanted to construct a display using rotating discs. 11:53:30 So do it 11:53:41 I offer a tuning helper if anyone wants 11:53:52 Every disc has a pattern of stripes on it, and they're all stacked, and it uses Fourier transforms or something to figure out how to rotate them to give the right image. 11:53:59 ph 11:54:06 oh* 12:49:56 -!- asiekierk has changed nick to asie[away]. 13:03:21 -!- neldoret1 has joined. 13:12:10 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:20:30 -!- asie[away] has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:40:02 -!- asie[away] has joined. 13:40:04 -!- asie[away] has changed nick to asie[brb]. 13:40:50 -!- asie[brb] has changed nick to asie[busy]. 13:40:57 Progress: Cutting out the material for the Nipkow Disk 13:41:53 ok, now cutting out the disk itself 13:43:59 ow, my fingers hurt <:( 13:50:15 i hate my laser printer 13:50:27 the ink is so weird i need to repaint some of the thing with a black marker 13:52:10 about 40% done 13:53:01 -!- Mony has joined. 13:53:28 -!- neldoret1 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:54:07 70% 13:54:07 plop 13:55:19 oh well 13:55:22 hi Mony 13:55:25 i'm making a mechanical TV set 13:57:27 what's that ? 13:58:16 a TV that uses the "Nipkow disk" and a LED and audio to show very lo-res analogue TV on a tiny half-inch screen* 13:58:27 * - using a single A4 sheet for the disk 13:59:57 for now, I have cut approx. 1/5th of that disk 14:00:54 and the holes will be perfect 14:00:55 :) 14:01:54 1/4th, getting closer 14:03:56 1/2 14:05:26 nearly done 14:06:35 done 14:06:45 now repainting some parts with a black marker (I hate my ink) 14:13:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:19:00 the wheel works ((manually though, i will need to make bigger holes) 14:21:19 -!- rabideejit has joined. 14:21:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:21:46 Greeting. 14:23:02 I have a new language for you. 14:23:02 Consider deciphering the contents of http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Kolmogorov and http://www.killersmurf.com/projects/Kolmogorov 14:24:53 ... 14:24:58 Maaaan 14:25:10 Is there an interpreter already? 14:25:14 yes 14:25:15 If there is, he totally smoked me :o 14:25:20 Me and my Andrei machine 14:25:29 Aaah! It's you. You inspired me. 14:25:40 greetings, rabideejit 14:25:51 Did I? 14:26:01 indeed you did. 14:26:03 Then I will take all credit 14:26:06 Woooo 14:26:22 Greetings ais. 14:26:25 Graph rewriting is a bitch and I'm a terrible programmer. 14:26:35 So I never managed to write an interpreter. 14:26:51 looks somewhat higher-level than the Andrei Machine 14:27:11 given that you have a BF equivalence already, probably it's actually quite usable, which is always nice in an esolang 14:27:12 Yes. The andrei machine is much closer to what Kolmogorov had in mind, I'd say. 14:27:13 I don't do high level. 14:27:34 Actually, it's exactly what Kolmogorov had in mind, except for the I/O. 14:28:05 If you want, the original article is here : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/ 14:28:13 They won't let me put it on the wiki though :3 14:29:36 the wiki's public-domain, you can't put copyrighted things on there 14:29:41 and things are copyrighted by default 14:29:54 I know. 14:30:12 Though I doubt we'd get in trouble 14:30:21 Ah, thankyou! I was looking for that. My source was Uri Gurevich's on Kolmogorov Machines and Related issues. 14:30:35 Yeah, it is hard to find. 14:30:40 Even as a used book 14:31:44 Maybe I should finish my Fibonacci on that language. 14:32:41 The commands are much easier on that one 14:34:13 I should still try mine one day. This one doesn't have the global graph transformation. 14:37:03 Ah, the Andrei machine has an easy-to-reach register. The challenger of the Kolmogorov language is all your data is all pointing to each other and you get lost. Hence the 500 line 99 bottles of beer. 14:37:11 *challenge 14:37:24 Freudian there. 14:37:54 Ah but I guess the Andrei register is a bit hard to reach, as you have to run through the graph to get it. 14:37:59 I usually try easy I/O. 14:38:14 Especially here, because it's the only way to know if it works correctly 14:38:24 Indeed. 14:38:38 I would do a debugger where you can see the actual graph, but I have no idea how to do it 14:38:52 It would be crazy. 14:39:24 The shitty part though is the graph recognition. 14:39:43 To use the transformations, it has to be able to recognize any pattern starting at 0 14:39:48 Yes, it seems a very complex problem. 14:40:23 Hmmmmm! 14:40:40 Especially since it doesn't have to be connected 14:44:02 hum, ho. 14:45:58 I must take your leave, I need to eat some yogurt. Nice to meet you Slereah. 14:46:01 -!- jix has joined. 14:46:05 Bye. 14:46:19 -!- rabideejit has quit ("Leaving."). 14:52:59 fjhdsjfh 14:53:00 morning 14:53:32 Hello dude. 14:53:37 sup 14:53:47 Turns out I'm an inspiration. 14:53:55 ^bf ,>++++++[<-------->-],[<+>-] ^bf ,>++++++[<-------->-],[<+>-]<.!43 14:54:04 7 14:54:05 It's the beard, is it? 14:54:32 so did anyone try that thing i suggested earlier? :P 14:54:41 What was that thing? 14:56:07 taking the bitwise AND of (N+, N+) and graphing at only the points where that == 0 14:56:50 Wouldn't that be just everywhere outside of 1's everywhere? 14:57:00 what? 14:57:23 Owait, no 14:57:48 Also why do you want that? 14:57:57 just do it :) 14:58:17 do it for an 8x8 square 14:58:26 so for N = 0..7 14:58:46 Lemme get my snake 14:59:11 Fuck, it's been a while since I coded. 14:59:22 well 14:59:28 you can draw it by hand for an 8x8 square 14:59:37 just to get a sense of what results 14:59:54 Except that it would involve doing a whole bunch of little bitwise operations 15:01:19 actually 15:01:23 its a lot faster than you think 15:01:38 Yeah, but then, I can generalize to any size 15:01:45 plus, the magic doesnt happen unless you graph it two dimensionally 15:01:48 but anyway, whatever 15:01:54 as long as you can visualize it 15:01:57 Plus I can just use my old binary converter of my Post machine 15:02:08 Also you can graph it with python 15:02:18 "#Decimal to binary string" 15:02:22 Good old Postal 15:03:37 what? 15:05:00 Old program 15:05:06 ok. 15:05:12 anyway 15:05:20 essentially what you want to do is something like 15:06:25 0.upto(n) do |i| 15:06:25 0.upto(n) do |j| 15:06:26 make_pixel_black(i,j) if 0 == i&j 15:06:28 end 15:06:30 end 15:12:23 psygnisfive: Python does not paste well at all over IRC 15:12:34 at least convert tabs to spaces so we have a chance at seing what you're writing 15:12:37 good think i didn't use python! 15:12:38 or use a pastebin 15:12:42 :P 15:12:43 ah, yes 15:12:53 I just noticed the every-other-line-in-italics 15:12:59 which is a usual sign to me that someone's tried to paste it 15:13:04 every-other-line-in-italics? 15:13:06 but the |i| would suggest more Ruby 15:13:11 i dont see these things that you speak of. 15:13:15 i see all and only what i wrote. 15:13:16 psygnisfive: my client interprets tab as toggle-italics 15:13:23 well your client is stupid. 15:13:25 :P 15:14:00 Tab *is* ctrl-i, so it's not that far off. 15:14:17 tab is not ctrl-i 15:14:19 wtf are you smoking 15:14:51 tab is indeed control-I, not on the keyboard, but in terms of representation in a text file 15:14:54 they're both ASCII code 8 15:14:55 *9 15:15:24 ctrl-i is not an ascii character. so no. 15:15:26 As unrefutable proof: Wikipedia redirects from "Control-I" to "Tab key". 15:15:36 lies. 15:15:41 control-a is 1, control-b is 2, control-c is 3, and so on 15:15:52 lies lies and more lies 15:16:04 have you ever wondered why it requires a lot of trickery to distinguish return and control-j from inside a program, for instance? 15:16:25 no. 15:16:31 because ive never experienced such problems. 15:22:03 so slereah 15:22:05 have you dones it yet 15:26:11 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:11 X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:11 X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:11 X X X X X 15:26:11 X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:11 X X X X X X 15:26:13 X X X X X X 15:26:15 X X X 15:26:17 X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:19 X X X X X X 15:26:21 X X X X X X 15:26:23 X X X 15:26:25 X X X X X X X X 15:26:27 X X X X 15:26:29 X X X X 15:26:31 X X 15:26:33 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:35 X X X X X X X X 15:26:37 X X X X X X X X 15:26:39 X X X X 15:26:41 Like this 15:26:43 D: 15:26:50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:50 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X 15:26:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Excess Flood). 15:27:03 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:27:04 Who ate the corners off the sierpinsky cookie? 15:27:04 It does look fractally. 15:29:16 Well, it is fractally in the other way around it seems 15:29:57 Finite sized patterns that repeat at bigger scales :o 15:30:21 Is there a way to display Python in a monospaced font? 15:39:00 slereah 15:39:00 -!- Hiato has joined. 15:39:06 its a sierpinski gasket 15:39:14 so yes, it is "fractally" 15:39:18 but the more interesting thing is that 15:39:24 What is a gasket 15:39:28 that is. 15:39:59 the more interesting thing is that its the sierpinski gasket AND it comes about JUST from doing bitwise AND over N^2 15:40:03 i mean, how ridiculous is that? 15:40:20 A gasket is also: 1. gasket -- (seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint) 15:40:23 You are aware that fractals don't have to be complex 15:40:35 Cantor set is easy as shit to create 15:40:46 yes, i know this. 15:40:58 but do you *feel* it? 15:41:07 but the point is more that this structure comes about from simple bitwise logic on numbers 15:41:22 -!- neldoreth has joined. 15:41:33 I am hard to fill with wonder 15:41:39 Although semen is another matter 15:42:13 or more precisely, the gasket is there in bitwise logic over ALL integers. so that its not some convoluted escape time algorithm, or geometric copy algorithm (tho it might be equivalent to the last one) 15:42:20 instead, its just AND(N,N) 15:42:48 "Also, it seems like they could fill more things with cream." "Just "things" in general? Where do you draw the line?" "Well, my thinking is this: if it's empty, fill it with cream." (That's one of the quotes fungot has.) 15:42:48 fizzie: you're either with them or are they only used for rebuilds in case of hack attacks illegal activity, 15:43:19 is fungot a markov bot? 15:43:19 psygnisfive: dang... the guy tried to argue) because lisp and scheme 15:43:29 Well, a close relative, anyway. 15:43:42 hm. he should be a phrase-structure bot instead! :| 15:44:15 Data structures are a bit iffy to do with befunge; I went with the simplest option. 15:44:19 sure, it'd require more computation, but it would produce grammatically correct sentences with absolutely not sensibility to them 15:44:25 oh. its befunge. nevermind :D 15:44:44 Funge-98, to be exact: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 15:44:44 fizzie: that's all. easily parsed even in emacs. wanting to see a larger project you end up with 15:44:50 well, you actually dont have to do it with datastructures 15:45:00 just some sort of context free production system 15:45:03 Oh, that was an eerily suitable reply. 15:45:04 -!- neldoret1 has joined. 15:45:07 -!- neldoreth has quit (Client Quit). 15:45:08 fizzie: yep 15:45:17 so if it can easily be done even in Emacs, why not in Befunge? 15:45:32 -!- asie[busy] has changed nick to asiekierk. 15:49:50 { (x,y) : x,y in N; x&y = 0 } is the gasket. how crazy is that tho 15:49:51 seriously 15:49:53 think about it 15:50:48 it generalizes to gasket-like structures in n dimensions: { p : p in N^k; &p = 0 } 15:51:32 Psog 15:51:36 How did you know this though 15:51:57 a professor of mine does a bunch of crazy stuff with logic, philosophy, and computation 15:52:13 he coauthored a book called The Philosophical Computer, and he mentions this in one chapter. 15:52:56 he's apparently very interested in what the fundamental principle is that leads to the Sierpinski Gasket showing up all over the place (bitwise logic, 1d CAs, GoL, etc.) 15:53:38 i think i've determined why it shows up in GoL tho. GoL is actually simulating a 4-state 1D CA when it produces the gasket 15:53:39 so 15:53:42 thats how you get it. 15:53:49 Maybe God is just too lazy to finish his triangles 15:53:53 maybe! 15:53:59 Or the universe is filled with bees 15:53:59 so he's made things do it for him 15:54:03 BEES 15:54:11 And sip sip syrup sipping nigga are honeycombs 15:54:12 anyway, its just interesting that the same thing shows up again and again 15:54:24 it'd be interesting to find out precisely WHAT the general principle is 15:54:29 its probably something very simple 15:54:41 I think it's the bees 15:54:55 Well, labtime 15:54:57 anyway, im off to class. ciao bitches 16:00:56 -!- M0ny has joined. 16:03:55 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:06:52 03:27 kerlo: ehird's mom is probably 31 or older. 16:06:55 Correct. 16:06:57 14:26 h has left IRC (Excess Flood) 16:07:01 Fuck, more regex fuckery. 16:07:03 Too lazy to fix. 16:09:10 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:09:33 -!- neldoret1 has quit (Client Quit). 16:13:31 kerlo: If you want to precisify the value, you can play 20 questions. 16:14:07 Or, y'know, just analyze LISP and FORTRAN release dates and soforth. 16:14:25 LISP and FORTRAN release dates would determine the value? 16:14:37 "03:27 kerlo: ehird's mom is probably 31 or older." 16:14:53 Based, presumably, on me saying that when my mother was a kid, LISP and FORTRAN on punchcards were the order of the day. 16:15:01 ah 16:16:05 Good lord, Apple made the iPod Shuffle even smaller. 16:16:18 Soon it'll take up negative space. 16:16:40 -!- neldoreth has joined. 16:17:05 they should fit it inside a pair of headphones 16:17:09 haha 16:17:19 why is that funny? I thought it was quite a good idea 16:17:26 after all, how many controls does the thing need? 16:17:52 it just has start/stop and forward, I think, except now it has playlists apparently 16:17:52 so hm 16:18:11 ah, here 16:18:17 volume up, volume down, and one button 16:18:28 single click: lay/pause, next track: double click, previous track: triple click 16:18:34 hear title and artist (TTS): hold 16:18:46 hold center button and release after tone: speaks out playlist names, click to select 16:19:00 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:19:08 ais523: the thing is, they ship with earphones 16:19:13 http://images.apple.com/ipodshuffle/images/features_hero_20090311.jpg 16:19:19 I guess you could fit the button on to one 16:19:22 and up/down volume on another 16:22:51 Just stick an accelerometer in, and have you shake your head like you've got a seizure whenever you need to interact with it. 16:23:14 how do ipod shuffles work, controlwise? 16:23:25 ais523: I just told you! 16:23:29 ehird: volume up, volume down, and one button 16:23:29 15:18 ehird: single click: lay/pause, next track: double click, previous track: triple click 16:23:31 15:18 ehird: hear title and artist (TTS): hold 16:23:33 15:18 ehird: hold center button and release after tone: speaks out playlist names, click to select 16:23:40 on the side there's a volume up button, one single button, and the volume down 16:23:45 and the single button has the operations above 16:24:50 oh, ok 16:25:03 I'm kind-of doing something else at the moment, so I'm not really paying attention to IRC 16:25:20 and based on the name, presumably it plays in random order if given no other instructions? 16:26:10 yes 16:26:16 you can't make it go in normal order, I think 16:28:13 I've used headphones before which had a volume knob on each headphone 16:28:18 that's effectively 4 controls 16:28:42 you could have a rotating off/volume knob on one earphone, and the button on the other, I suppose 16:32:40 -!- Judofyr has quit ("raise Hand, 'wave'"). 16:41:45 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:43:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:03:49 " Linux is by far the most popular UNIX OS" 17:03:51 Er... no... 17:04:11 change that to UNIX-compatible, and it's probably correct 17:04:19 OS X 17:04:24 has a larger market share than linux 17:05:48 isn't linux around 1% market share? 17:05:54 and mac around 9% or so? 17:05:58 hm, maybe a bit less 17:06:17 ehird: add in servers and embedded systems, and linux beats mac os x hollow 17:06:34 * ais523 wonders what proportion of UNIX-compatible systems are servers 17:06:37 embedded systems, sure 17:06:39 but servers? 17:06:41 I'm not so sure 17:06:46 BSD is very popular on servers 17:06:47 so is windows 17:07:03 yep, Windows isn't unix-compatible though so doesn't count 17:07:10 true 17:07:14 but BSD and Solaris both definitely factor into the server market 17:08:54 OS X Server, now... I don't think that's so very very popular. 17:09:04 no, although IIRC it does exist 17:09:06 Yeah, OS X server has like 0 market share. 17:09:21 I imagine it's mostly used in small businesses. 17:09:35 For corporate sites & email and internal intranet sites etc 17:09:38 "16.7% of smartphones sold worldwide during 2006 were using Linux[49]" -- that's a larger number than I expected. 17:10:00 From the infallible wikipedia, of course. 17:10:07 OS X Server does integrate its unix user accounts with the web services, which is nice. 17:10:15 Can't t hink of anyhting particularly exciting about it, though. 17:10:26 Also, it comes with all the dekstop apps, which is rather stupid. 17:10:29 *desktop 17:10:39 ehird: but they're the only thing that distinguishes OSX from Darwin 17:10:43 admittedly, it's a big and good selling point 17:11:01 ais523: Not quite. 17:11:10 The GUI in general is; but do you need iCal on a server? 17:11:20 well, I suppose so 17:11:36 I sort-of got the impression that OSX Server was designed to be used as a workstation and also a server at the same time 17:12:23 That would be a rather odd use-case. 17:12:32 "Sorry guys, I'm playing a dvd, slight slowdown" 17:16:11 I can imagine that use-case for people living at home who wanted a servery thing of their own 17:16:17 True 17:16:21 It's pricey, though. 17:16:25 I mean, even this laptop has apache installed, although other people can't access it except via a reverse tunnel 17:16:28 Like really pricey 17:16:50 10-client license is £312 17:16:50 well, that's not out of character for Apple, but it's no wonder why nobody buys it 17:16:58 ais523: regular OS X comes with apache 17:17:03 well, yes 17:17:07 does it come with an ircd? 17:17:17 I don't think OS X Server comes with an ircd :P 17:17:51 I have an ircd on here too, although I only use it for testing bots 17:18:16 Installing an ircd on here would be rather trivial 17:18:27 % port info ngircd 17:18:27 ngircd @0.12.1 (irc) 17:18:29 Variants: ident, universal 17:18:39 -!- impomatic has left (?). 17:18:48 So, same as (an apt-based) Linux (distro), really. 17:19:37 yep 17:19:46 so why buy the server version if the desktop version can do that? 17:19:59 That's what I'm asking. :P 17:20:15 maybe it's against the licence agreement 17:20:33 just like you aren't allowed to have more than 4 simultaneous incoming network connections on non-server versions of Windows 17:20:42 Now THAT I highly doubt... 17:21:12 After all, MacPorts is hosted on Mac OS Forge, which Apple runs (and personally approves all projects on, i.e. it's not something like berlios or whatever) 17:21:13 :P 17:21:19 but is that true about windows? 17:21:24 ehird: I mean, to use it as a server 17:21:25 Crazy! I'll have violated that billions of times... 17:21:31 as for that thing about Windows, I remember it from somewhere 17:21:31 ais523: right, but macports has servers 17:21:40 but it may have been false, or I might have misremembered 17:21:42 and is on a site with pseudo-official projects 17:22:44 Googling, it seems it's a Windows XP SP 2 thing, specifically 17:22:46 Someone should get an old eMac and run emacs on it 17:22:51 and the websites there seem to disagree about the number 17:22:56 2, 4, and 10 have all been reported 17:23:15 oh, and 5 17:24:17 grr... why are all the files on microsoft.com .doc files? 17:24:23 why do you think? 17:24:29 not HTML? 17:24:32 I could understand docx 17:24:37 but doc seems self-defeating for everyone 17:24:40 including Microsoft 17:24:41 because they're old 17:24:47 and they want to support old words 17:25:10 "Note: If SQL Server 2005 Express is running on Windows XP Home, it is limited to five simultaneous connections. If it is running on Windows 2000 or Windows XP Professional, it is limited to 10 simultaneous connections. However, these are limitations of the operating system and not of SQL Server 2005 Express." 17:25:23 found on a word document on microsoft.com, that's evidence, at least 17:25:24 oh, right 17:25:27 you can modify tha 17:25:27 t 17:25:31 trivially 17:26:16 "If you have not heard, Microsoft has announced the name for the next version of Windows, a.k.a. Longhorn. It will be called Windows Vista. The great news is, Windows Vista Beta 1, targeted at developers and IT professionals, is now available to MSDN Subscribers. Please check the new the new Windows Vista Developer Center for more details." 17:26:23 wow, didn't expect to randomly see that when searching 17:26:35 XD 17:26:44 I liked the longhorn name 17:26:52 it was vaguely phallic. Like Windows. 17:49:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:58:25 -!- neldoret1 has joined. 17:58:35 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:01:33 "AuroraUX - SunOS-based Operating System Written (Mostly) in Ada" 18:01:38 Well, it's certainly esoteric. 18:02:01 is it 100% military reliable secure? 18:02:05 who knows 18:02:12 given that it's written in ADA, it ought to be 18:02:17 that was the whole point behind ada 18:02:20 ada is not UPPERCASE 18:02:38 sorry, pet peeve... 18:02:42 the worst is LISP and JAVA 18:02:46 what, isn't it? 18:02:51 it's Ada 18:02:52 I thought it was named after someone 18:02:55 but written in uppercase anyway 18:02:57 Ada Lovelace 18:03:01 I know it isn't an acronym 18:03:04 and yes, I know who it's named after 18:03:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language) netcraft^Wwikipedia confirms i 18:03:18 t 18:03:36 Wikipedia has it at Ada, though 18:03:39 you beat me to checking 18:05:38 -!- M0ny has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:08:48 [[It mostly crashes immediately, mostly due to some unsupported operations in the assembler backend, but for a carefully crafted program, we're able to get massive speedups. For something as complex as: 18:08:49 i = 0 18:08:51 while i < 10000000: 18:08:53 i = i + 1 18:08:55 our JIT is about 20x faster than CPython. ]] 18:09:01 I wish I could write programs that complex. 18:09:44 ehird: I can optimise that into i = 10000000 18:09:51 Dayum! 18:09:54 You're the best compiler ever. 18:09:56 that's probably more than a factor-of-20 speedup 18:09:58 Here, compile this program. 18:10:07 also, that announcement was tounge-in-cheek 18:10:12 *tongue 18:10:18 ehird: one of my friends actually said that at university, that they'd rather trust me to convert C into asm than the compiler 18:10:25 haha 18:10:28 although admittedly it was a really awful compiler 18:10:32 I trusted me more than it too 18:10:35 which compiler? 18:10:39 CCS C 18:10:44 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:10:50 which has been mentioned on thedailywtf sidebar at least once, so it isn't me 18:10:54 *just me 18:11:11 is that the gpl-but-eula one? 18:11:22 no, that's MPLAB C30 which is actually quite good 18:11:38 you should put that one on the internet with the eula-removing modifications and see what they do :-D 18:11:44 it's about as good as gcc is, although a bit less optimised, which is not surprising 18:11:51 also, the eula-removing modifications are already online 18:11:52 "We will sue you for not complying with our EUL... oh, crap." 18:11:57 ais523: i meant, the whole source 18:12:04 I just swapped out the EULA for the standard hello world that came with microsoft visual C 18:12:19 ha 18:12:30 really, communicating with your licence enforcer via exit code is not such a good idea 18:15:18 "I hate the people who just post their solution in J. That's almost as intelligible as brainfuck. " -- on project euler 18:15:26 how dare they use a concise, expressive language 18:15:29 ... like brainfuck 18:15:33 * ehird audience laughs 18:18:14 hi 18:18:19 Hi. 18:18:27 hi 18:19:24 How much scrollback is needed for context? 18:19:35 for what? 18:19:35 3 18:19:36 eula talk? 18:19:39 30 lines or so 18:19:44 for my brainfuck thing, about 7 by now 18:19:53 for eula talk, quite a lot more, for ehird's joke just 4 before you said hi 18:20:15 ehird: you should look up CCS C some time, anyway, it's sufficiently bad that at one point I was just planning to reimplement it better 18:20:22 k 18:20:27 ehird, indeed 18:20:33 for instance, if you pass a constant string as an argument to a function 18:20:45 it converts it into a loop which calls the function once for each character of the string 18:20:48 ... 18:20:50 with that character as argument 18:20:54 Afugawhatthefuckbitshit. 18:20:59 ... 18:21:06 J...jwha...ofjgo. 18:21:09 fgokpdfkogkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 18:21:11 ok, so that's occasionally a useful operation, they really shouldn't have made it the default though 18:21:12 ;______; You ruined my brain. 18:21:20 really, communicating with your licence enforcer via exit code is not such a good idea <-- Huh? 18:21:21 how strange. 18:21:23 because it so blatantly breaks about half the C standard 18:21:30 WHY DID THEY DO THAT 18:21:42 because strings are expensive on their target platform 18:21:54 AnMaster: why do you say huh at basic, mundane, simple sentences 18:22:03 and instead of optimising printf("Hello, world!\n") into the row of putchars it ought to be 18:22:21 in CCS C you're supposed to write putchar("Hello, world!\n"), never mind that that makes absolutely no sense 18:22:23 ehird, because it made no sense 18:22:26 ais523: hahaha 18:22:27 to me 18:22:31 AnMaster: what the fuck? of course it did 18:22:34 how can that not make sense 18:22:41 I don't see any wiggle room for meaninglessness in that sentence 18:22:43 (note, hello world as a row of putchars is suboptimal on most platforms but probably the best way on the PIC) 18:22:46 oh 18:22:50 I can't come up with one single interpretation in which that makes no sense... 18:22:53 licence enforcer is some sort of program? 18:22:54 right 18:22:57 >_< 18:23:01 was thinking "lawyer" 18:23:05 -_- 18:23:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76820 <-- ' CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION FORTH IN 18:23:32 [not mine] 18:23:52 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:24:31 "Conventional wisdom has it that Mosaic was the first graphical web browser. Even though Mosaic - the basis for Netscape - certainly kickstarted the web revolution, it wasn't the first graphical web browser at all - that honour goes to Erwise" 18:24:35 what?! 18:24:45 WorldWideWeb.app was the first graphical browser, and the first BROWSER... 18:24:56 ais523, depending on what PIC you target, just using ASM may be saner 18:25:03 AnMaster: well, yes 18:25:08 I'm talking about the sort of asm you need 18:25:25 ais523, like I doubt any sort of C would make much sense for PIC12F629 (which I programmed against) 18:25:27 but putchar on a PIC requires you to write an interrupt handler by hand, or else use the hardware serial port as a background thread 18:25:47 AnMaster: that's what CCS C is, it mostly targets PIC16 but they don't have a much bigger instruction set 18:25:50 ais523, well. I'm not sure where STDOUT would be on a PIC... 18:26:02 AnMaster: it's the UART that's both stdout and stdin 18:26:41 well, USART on a PIC, although I don't know of anyone who used them in synchronous mode 18:26:47 ais523, hm iirc PIC12* doesn't have a special such... 18:26:56 some will, some won't, I expect 18:27:40 ais523, I mean I had serial port connected two ways in programming mode, and but when running I needed that pin for something else. So I used a jumper 18:27:51 I still read serial though 18:28:20 well, yes, you can implement it in software 18:28:31 CCS C requires weird pragmas to set up the UART, or else software emulation of it 18:28:53 ais523, apart from programming mode I had to handle serial interrupt myself completely, PIC12 doesn't have any support built in. 18:28:59 ah, ok 18:29:04 nearly all PIC16s do, IIRC 18:29:09 certainly the ones I've used do 18:29:22 I don't remember how programming mode worked. I think it was driving some pin(s) to certain values or something like that 18:29:27 you still need a MAX232 or something though because the output's at the wrong voltages for conventional communicatoin 18:29:36 and programming mode works by putting 12V into the reset pin 18:29:46 something you're unlikely to do by mistake as they're only 5V devices normally 18:29:57 and smacks very much of DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING 18:30:05 ais523, well this was so long ago I don't remember details 18:30:44 but it does sound familiar now that you mention it 18:31:01 ais523, however are you sure PIC12* are 5V? 18:31:20 they vary from about 3.3 to 5, IIRC 18:32:21 ais523, iirc PIC12F629 was 1.5 V... 18:32:24 but I may misremember 18:32:32 wow, that's low, but not entirely implausible 18:32:39 I wonder if it still had a 12V program mode? 18:32:45 something needs to generate program voltage, after all 18:32:56 hey ais523! 18:33:02 hi 18:33:04 perl -lpe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I' 18:33:15 ehird: let me work out what that does without running it 18:33:15 ais523, well I may misremember, and it may have 9 V or such then for programming? 18:33:15 give it decimal numbers. 18:33:20 kay 18:33:21 would that be plausible? 18:33:28 ais523: just to warn you, it's computer generated 18:33:54 (a perl program wrote a c program that, when run, gave output which when given to a perl program outputted a perl program) 18:33:59 so congrats if you can understand it 18:34:04 AnMaster: not really, you need voltages around 12V to reflash a chip no matter what it normally runs as 18:34:05 although I think it's obvious looknig at it 18:34:06 ehird, which coding contest was it from? 18:34:09 AnMaster: perl golf 18:34:12 ais523, hm ok. 18:34:39 ok, it starts by looping over all characters in the input string 18:34:57 ehird, I see. So what program was used to generate it. Because compiler generated asm from icc -fast is more readable. 18:35:13 AnMaster: asm is meant to be readable, you should be comparing that to machine code 18:35:14 ha ha perl is unreadable because I don't know it ohhh such a bastion of comedy. 18:35:23 that got old in 1990, AnMaster. 18:35:57 ehird, well I can read some perl. I'm not totally perl illiterate. I just don't know all the details. I know enough to read clean perl programs. 18:37:02 that Perl is deliberately rather compressed, by the look of it 18:37:08 also using $ as a delimiter to y is evil 18:37:19 "deliberately"? i said, it's computer generated 18:37:22 17:33 ehird: (a perl program wrote a c program that, when run, gave output which when given to a perl program outputted a perl program) 18:37:27 they were deliberately going for obfuscation there, I think 18:37:28 so of course it's generated to be as short as possible 18:37:29 :P 18:37:31 ais523: it's perl golf 18:37:34 of course it's obfuscated ... 18:37:36 ehird: I know 18:37:40 kay 18:37:44 but it would be just as short using , or something, and more readable 18:37:48 or " fwiw 18:38:04 presumably the computer just picked a random punctuation mark that worked 18:38:21 ehird, so was the C program as obfuscated? 18:38:27 no, none of the generators were 18:38:29 only the final result 18:38:31 anyway, the algorithm's weird 18:38:56 ok. when ais523 figured it out or gave up, could you please provide a link? 18:39:13 it takes characters from the input string, then multiplies by 1111, modulos by 1859, and bitwise-xors by 7 18:39:18 you can have it now, thanks to the power of /msg 18:39:20 AnMaster: I can already guess what it does 18:39:26 just from the characters used 18:39:28 yeah it's obvious from the code 18:39:29 AnMaster: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/83rkc/very_clever_perlgolfed_arabictoromannumerals/ 18:39:31 but it's nice to know for certain 18:39:38 Deewiant: thanks, asshole 18:39:39 ah 18:39:44 ehird: ?? 18:39:47 ais523 specifically said he wanted to work it out himself 18:39:53 so don't click on the link 18:40:02 that would work if the answer wasn't IN THE LINK 18:40:03 of course, since it was ehird I should have known it was on reddit... 18:40:04 ;P 18:40:07 ehird: I guessed what it did, I'm just trying to work out why 18:40:13 [17:33] perl -lpe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I' 18:40:16 ehird: you already told him it's obvious from the code 18:40:22 on the other hand, it's easier to work out what it does when I don't have to scrollback 18:40:23 Deewiant: that doesn't mean anything in particular 18:40:26 and I assume we're all smart enough to realize what's obvious 18:40:41 I admit I didn't notice it was in the link, though 18:41:36 oh, wait 18:41:45 it's not $&x4, it's 4x$& 18:41:51 that makes a big difference 18:42:58 anyway, it seems to arithmetically encode a lookup table of single digits to roman numerals 18:43:02 and has code for multiplying roman numerals by 10 18:43:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:43:16 it alternates them in a loop, that's the basic algorithm 18:43:35 * ais523 reads the reddit discussion 18:43:45 read the linked article 18:43:46 not the discussion 18:43:50 (which is worthless) 18:43:57 it is worthless atm, I agree 18:44:05 so I'll read the article next, reading the discussion was easy 18:44:13 What article? 18:44:24 Sgeo: don't tell me you don't have scrollback 18:44:33 ehird: he just joined 18:44:39 oh. 18:44:42 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/83rkc/very_clever_perlgolfed_arabictoromannumerals/ 18:44:58 ah ty 18:46:24 ehird: it seems it was hand-obfuscated at the end while maintaining constant length 18:46:31 yeah 18:46:32 which is what explains the crazy choice of $ as a delimiter 18:46:52 -!- M0ny has joined. 18:47:15 and I pretty much understood how it worked, although I couldn't do the arithmetic lookup table in my head 18:47:20 hi M0ny, by the way 18:47:43 hey 18:48:08 hm 18:48:16 wait what 18:48:18 that program converts 18:48:24 123456789000 to MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM 18:48:27 oh, overflow? 18:48:58 it doesn't modify capital M when multiplying by 10 18:49:03 I also read that posting. Isn't this quite close to a perfect hash function that is as short as possible? 18:49:10 or have I misunderstood it 18:49:17 ... um. sort of. 18:49:28 wait, it can't be overflow 18:49:33 adding more digits gives more 18:49:42 oh because they're seperate ones 18:49:42 it is overflow 18:49:43 duh 18:49:44 (lines) 18:49:47 but it saturates at overflow 18:49:58 * ais523 tries to work out why the -l on the command line 18:50:21 ais523: adds a newline, I think 18:50:28 [ehird:~] % perl -pe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I'2 18:50:28 II3 18:50:30 XXIII3 18:50:32 CCXXXIII 18:50:47 not just that 18:50:57 it turns on autochomping, and adds a newline at end of line to compensate 18:51:03 heh 18:51:14 wait a sec the posting is from 2004? And the reddit post from 7 hours ago? 18:51:22 so? 18:51:23 so that way the program doesn't have to worry about compensating for an attempt to translate a newline into roman numerals 18:51:27 why does it matter how old it is, AnMaster? 18:51:32 ehird, so you can post any old link on reddit? 18:51:40 as long as it is on the right topic of course 18:51:41 ... why the heck not? 18:51:45 are only new things worthwhile...? 18:52:08 ehird, no, but only tracking new stuff making duplication avoiding easier 18:52:12 at least 18:52:15 (the only place newness is emphasised on reddit is the mainpage title (reddit.com: what's new online!), which most people don't see and was probably just a last-minute thing) 18:52:18 easier to find dups 18:52:21 AnMaster: that's ridiculous, duplciation is good 18:52:27 not everybody sees things first time 18:52:49 ehird, why is it? Wouldn't keeping everything about something in one place be good? If there is some useful comment the first time it was posted 18:52:50 or such 18:53:01 reddit is about the links 18:53:03 the comments are a nice bonus 18:54:04 well, knowing me, I often try to infer the content of the links from the comments rather than clicking on them 18:54:10 I only follow the links if the comments imply they're interesting to me 18:54:30 ais523, so you hate url shortening? 18:54:49 AnMaster: how does that follow from what I said? 18:55:00 wtf AnMaster 18:55:04 actually, I like it, but only in appropriate contexts 18:55:19 ais523, because you can't see from the link itself what it means? 18:55:21 ... 18:55:25 from the COMMENTS 18:55:28 AnMaster: you can't do that anyway, it's just an URL 18:55:29 not the link text 18:55:32 he never even said that 18:55:35 w t f are you on about... 18:55:36 which is one form of comment, an in-band comment 18:55:38 ;P 18:55:50 v_v 18:55:52 * ehird sigh 18:55:54 how do I know that http://rickroll.com isn't a goatse? 18:56:01 also I never said I was trying to make sense... 18:56:04 it's parked, actually 18:56:08 For resources and information on Rick and Origin of Rock N Roll 18:56:18 ehird: I was guessing parked, actually 18:56:30 second guess was an actual rickroll, or else a guide about them 18:57:40 btw... why did kerlo remove the unicode from topic? In logs I only see " Who's been using Unicode in here?", " unicode is evil" and kerlo changing the topic + a few unrelated lines 18:57:56 who cares? 18:58:00 hey ehird 18:58:03 how old is your mom 18:58:12 -3. integer overflow problem. 18:58:16 very tragic. 18:58:49 speaking of URL shorteners, http://snipr.com/dltn2 18:58:58 what's that a link to? 18:59:05 a website 18:59:11 not a rickroll. nor goatse. 18:59:13 ok, that's getting somewhere 18:59:22 it could have been an individual web /page/, for instance 18:59:27 oh, it is 18:59:36 It's a link to a rickroll-link-maker 18:59:36 actually, now it's a rick roll. 18:59:38 ok, so your first useful clue was actually wrong 18:59:46 it was a link to http://rickroll.tv/ 18:59:46 Sgeo: ah 18:59:49 now it's a link to http://rickroll.tv/classic 18:59:52 because it had two clicks 18:59:57 snipr allows retargetable URLs? 19:00:00 ais523: no 19:00:02 it just redirects to 19:00:06 http://rickroll.tv/ 19:00:07 oh, ok 19:00:09 and that inspects the referer 19:00:14 and counts up 19:00:14 I think 19:00:15 rickroll.tv works once from each referer? 19:00:19 -!- AnMaster has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | sʞɔoɹ ǝpoɔıun. 19:00:19 that's sort of clever 19:00:23 configurable 19:00:27 (on ricktoll.tv) 19:00:28 err 19:00:31 rickroll.tb 19:00:32 ... 19:00:35 fuck it 19:00:56 Welcome to RickRoll TV! On this channel, we (cuts to scene of Rick Astley) 19:01:04 heh 19:01:17 in order to successfully rickroll, it has to make you think the rickroll isn't coming /yet/ 19:01:32 because from the name, you know it's coming 19:04:51 What is so bad with rickroll? I mean I don't like the music especially, but it isn't *that* bad. 19:05:02 it's not meant to be particularly bad 19:05:04 AnMaster: because it gets in the way of useful links? 19:05:05 just cheesy 19:05:07 it isn't all that bad, agreed 19:05:20 randomly redirecting people to about:blank would be about as annoying, if it had become a meme 19:05:20 Actually, I like rickrolls 19:05:27 asiekierk: I could have guessed. 19:05:30 ais523, be careful in what you say... 19:05:32 so not amazingly dangerous or annoying, but still annoying 19:05:32 You could 19:05:37 but you didn't 19:05:58 AnMaster: http://tinyurl.com/18r 19:06:15 * AnMaster goes to http://preview.tinyurl.com/18r 19:06:25 ais523, indeed 19:06:27 how boring. 19:06:33 also, you can turn on preview by defaul. 19:06:33 t 19:06:38 ok, this is officially the new rickroll: trick people into looking at the tinyurl preview page for about:blank 19:06:43 ais523, hah 19:06:47 tinyurl.com: 19:06:50 that is so twisted... 19:06:51 [[Hide your affiliate URLs 19:06:51 Are you posting something that you don't want people to know what the URL is because it might give away that it's an affiliate link? Then you can enter a URL into TinyURL, and your affiliate link will be hidden from the visitor, only the tinyurl.com address and the ending address will be visible to your visitors. 19:06:56 ]] 19:07:02 how is etthics formed 19:07:09 ehird: with one 't' 19:07:13 ehird, but doesn't preview work still? 19:07:15 how affiliate get clicked 19:07:19 ais523: meme fail >:( 19:07:26 I don't know of that meme 19:07:30 ais523: how is babby formed 19:07:33 yahoo answers 19:07:35 You can probably google it 19:07:39 And get meaningful results 19:07:40 http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Babby.jpg 19:07:44 http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/29/Babby.jpg (to avoid ads) 19:07:49 misses the answer, though. 19:07:52 ae has ads? 19:07:53 There are ads? 19:07:59 on ED? yes. 19:08:07 strange 19:08:15 Deewiant, you never noticed it either? 19:08:15 oh well, here's the answer: 19:08:16 They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back? it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids. they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his children ; i am truley sorry for your lots 19:08:23 the flash movie is betetr 19:08:30 tombom: ais523 refuses to use flash 19:08:30 soo. 19:08:34 so do I 19:08:35 oh ha 19:08:40 no flash here either 19:08:45 so, I also refuse to visit encyclopediadramatica 19:08:50 ais523, same here 19:08:51 so it comes to much the same thing either way 19:08:52 :) 19:09:01 except I directly linked to a jpg 19:09:05 of yahoo answers. 19:09:12 what on earth is the point in refusing to click that? 19:09:36 ED's admin(s) don't take kindly to hotlinking, but I guess a few clicks from IRC are safe 19:09:47 you can't tell IRC from no-referrer-firewall 19:10:07 Sure you can, just not accurately 19:10:15 how? 19:10:21 Record IPs 19:10:34 what about them? what would you do with it 19:10:35 Deewiant: what to ED's admins do in response to hotlinks 19:10:41 ais523: you don't want to know. 19:10:41 *do ... ? 19:10:53 it involves replacing the image, and the page titled "Offensive" 19:10:56 If IP went to image without going to the page of the image first, it came from somewhere else 19:11:10 err, not offensive 19:11:12 ais523: replace it with goatse/tubgirl/etc panoramas and such 19:11:14 "Offended" 19:11:18 Deewiant: I guessed 19:11:24 Deewiant: way worse than that, IME :P 19:11:34 ehird: you've experienced that? 19:11:34 ehird: 'and such' 19:11:39 I like how [[Offended]] starts with cute rabbit pictures 19:11:45 ais523: once 19:11:57 Deewiant, um after you confirm that it came from elsewhere. Then what? 19:12:04 * Sgeo doesn't like how he apparently once got malware from ED 19:12:13 i find that very unlikely, Sgeo 19:12:18 AnMaster: well if you get too many of those in a short while you replace the image 19:12:23 Deewiant, you couldn't know if it was IRC or email or IM or whatever 19:12:32 AnMaster: yes, and it doesn't matter 19:12:41 Hotlinking is bad, period. 19:12:54 Deewiant, what about users using anonymous proxies? or such 19:12:59 surely they should just do the reverse solution to avoid hotlinks? 19:13:09 as in, allow people to see the image only if the referrer is correct 19:13:09 ais523, err? 19:13:11 rather than if it's wrong 19:13:20 that breaks no-referer-firewalls 19:13:25 of which there are a lot 19:13:29 so, do they actually care about those? 19:13:42 ais523, it can break in other cases too 19:13:47 ED isn't in the business of being actively hostile to its users 19:13:53 like if you use history in the browser 19:13:54 just other people's users 19:13:56 or whatever 19:14:01 It's in the business of being passively hostile to its subjects, and actively hostile to anyone else 19:14:09 ehird: sounds about right 19:16:27 a question 19:16:45 an answer? 19:16:48 to those on linux: any of you have a man page for gai.conf (section 5) 19:17:00 yes, I do 19:17:03 http://linux.die.net/man/5/gai.conf 19:17:06 ais523, from what package 19:17:15 Ulrich Drepper wrote it. 19:17:18 ehird, yes I know. I just can't find the man page on any of the systems I have 19:17:22 hmm 19:17:24 glibc it seems 19:17:54 well yes I know what it is. Was just wondering why there was no man page *installed* for it. Since the config file does exist on several (but not all) of those systems 19:17:55 * ais523 runs the dpkg-query 19:18:10 it's taking a while, I have lots of packages installed 19:18:14 mhm 19:18:47 hey, LimeChat has a pastebin built in 19:19:00 how does it work, via a dedicated website? 19:19:02 http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/1565 19:19:11 I would love it so much if it just created a webserver on your system for that paste 19:19:12 ais523: it just uses some random pastebin 19:19:17 but that's broken by NAT, probably 19:19:23 stupid NAT, all sorts of things are broken by it 19:19:27 ais523, I didn't know dpkg-query could do it, now that you said debian has it I sshed to a debian system and indeed it exists there 19:19:29 seems to be written by a ruby person, since limechat is a ruby thang that makes sense 19:19:37 AnMaster: libc6: /usr/share/man/man5/gai.conf.5.gz 19:19:48 so it's in libc6 on debian 19:19:50 ais523, it would probably be faster if I ran it there, If I knew how to make dpkg-query do it 19:19:53 mhm 19:19:56 which agrees with what ehird thinks 19:20:02 well it would make sense 19:20:03 AnMaster: dpkg-query -S filename 19:20:03 google thinks 19:20:11 only works if the file is currently installed via a package manager 19:20:16 as in, it only searches packages you have 19:20:35 ehird: it was your choice to trust google on that 19:20:36 ais523, yeah, took about half a second. Though admittedly not as much is installed 19:22:23 now to figure out how to write a gai.conf so it *prefers* IPv6 over IPv4. Getting IPv4 results back is pretty useless on an IPv6 only host... 19:22:35 ipv6 only? 19:22:40 yes 19:22:46 a vps, with only ipv6 19:22:46 also known as "paperweight" 19:22:47 no ipv4 19:22:55 ehird, it's the future. Lets start early ;) 19:23:06 sure not very useful yet. 19:23:16 considering ipv6 adoption levels, it very well might not be the future 19:23:17 * ais523 is looking forward to actually supported everywhere ipv6 due to hating NAT 19:24:04 ais523, personally I hope NAT will be possible under ipv6, knowning my ISP they are the type who would only give you one ip and require paying a lot extra per extra IP... 19:24:20 nat under ipv6? fail... 19:24:28 also, I don't even have a static IP.... 19:24:30 it's not a problem 19:24:32 nor do I 19:24:36 AnMaster: no sane ISP would do that 19:24:48 there are no sane ISPs 19:24:50 especially in the UK 19:24:56 and I don't care about a dynamic IP nearly as much as I care that people can actually make incoming connections on arbitrary ports if I tell them my IP 19:25:01 ehird, what about xs4all? 19:25:09 ok, list of sane ISPs: xs4all. 19:25:14 right 19:25:20 probably the best ISP in the UK, from what I grok, is Be 19:25:24 but Be aren't available here 19:25:26 >:( 19:25:49 ais523, iirc the TOS says something about only using one computer at the time, yet they ship adsl modem/router to customers, and it's pre-configured for NAT... 19:26:01 no way that ends up as "sane" 19:26:05 AnMaster: which ISP is that? 19:26:10 ais523, Tele2 19:26:19 I know Virgin Media actually require you to use Windows 19:26:19 tele2 my face 19:26:22 ais523: WHAT 19:26:26 in the contract 19:26:26 ehird, what? 19:26:30 ehird: seriously 19:26:35 AnMaster: tele2 pronounces sort of like tell-it-to 19:26:39 ais523: SHDKJASHDJKAShdJKASDHKSDAD WHAT 19:26:43 I think it's so they aren't sued when their windows-only setup program doesn't work 19:26:47 ehird, not in Swedish..., 19:26:55 however, the contract doesn't prevent you using a different OS as well 19:26:58 but swedes are dirty, so to hell with them 19:27:02 ais523: haha 19:27:11 ehird, the company is Scandinavian to begin with. 19:27:19 harumph 19:27:29 even Swedish 19:27:31 says wikipedia 19:27:39 wasn't sure if it was Norwegian or Swedish 19:27:47 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele2 19:28:31 http://images.appshopper.com/screenshots/304/682626.jpg (John Gruber's user interface of the week) 19:28:54 Is that good or bad? 19:29:02 What do you think? 19:29:02 John Gruber? 19:29:07 * AnMaster googles 19:29:08 AnMaster: of http://daringfireball.net/ 19:29:20 he... made Markdown. and writes that blog. for a living. it's about macs. 19:29:26 ehird, however google won't answer "is this person stupid or cool" 19:29:32 hm 19:29:35 I'd find it usable, if that's all the space available 19:29:36 stupid and cool are opposites? 19:29:41 ehird, well not exactly 19:29:51 but I didn't find the precise perfect words 19:30:07 "acool" is the cool word.* 19:30:08 *lies 19:30:09 ehird, however that GUI looks a bit cluttered to me 19:30:16 ... it's a sarcastic award. 19:32:19 ehird, those on/off slider thingies doesn't make much sense to me..., first it seems more logical that marker is on item that is active (reverse here), second: what is wrong with check boxes? they are established and while there may be better ways to do it, checkboxes aren't that bad IMO 19:32:29 IT'S A SARCASTIC AWARD 19:32:35 IT'S AWARDED TO CRAP DESIGNS ;__; 19:32:36 oh right 19:32:37 missed that 19:32:48 also 19:32:51 this is a touch-screen 19:32:55 the ON/OFF is the standard iphone checkbox 19:33:00 I see 19:33:01 since it's a lot easier to slide than a checkbox 19:33:28 well, what about large check boxes?, Is tapping the screen hard? 19:33:56 empirically, I find it a lot easier to tap wider-than-high things on a touchscreen 19:34:08 hm ok 19:34:11 to get the same tappability with a checkbox, it'd be a lot taller 19:34:17 and thus use more of the limited screen 19:34:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:35:08 ehird, this sarcastic award, where is more info about it? 19:35:25 I can't find it on his website. 19:35:28 Any post on df.net starting with "User Interface of the Week:". 19:35:29 :p 19:35:35 ah right 19:35:58 users shouldn't need to scroll down, thats an usability problem~ 19:36:09 yeah I get coughs and sneezes whenever I scroll 19:36:10 awful stuff 19:36:19 in fact, users should only need to look at the screen, anything more is a usability problem~ 19:36:21 i need to have four 30" screens in a rectangle 19:36:28 to avoid scrolling as much as possible 19:36:32 also, I use 7px type, max 19:36:37 :D 19:36:43 AnMaster: Ok. Just make a NBTV set 19:36:50 however this raises the privacy issue. since solving the usability issue would require mind reading.. 19:36:56 Not really 19:37:05 NBTV? 19:37:07 It could use eye movements 19:37:09 google it 19:37:12 Narrow Band Television 19:37:17 or mechanical TV 19:37:18 i already googled it, there's nothing relevant 19:37:30 not even a WP article 19:37:45 asiekierk, eye movements to navigate would still require more than minimal user effort 19:41:05 Cleaning a computer for the lazy: Run program that hogs all of the CPU. Watch fans go to 100% speed. Relax. :P 19:41:14 *note: I am not responsible for any damage caused :| 19:43:02 *note: does nothing, unless your fans are really bad or really good. 19:43:14 *note: I disclaim my walking to the ground. 19:43:36 Also, 'narrow-band television' is basically ye old mechanical television. 19:44:21 Doesn't take much more than a light bulb, a motor, a disk with holes in it, and a sound card. 19:45:09 -!- M0ny has quit ("Quit"). 19:46:49 I wonder if there's any use for NBTV 19:50:32 hmm... wonder how long backing up a newly-installed system via ethernet would take 19:51:47 hmm... tc seems to manage about 1:38 per gb 19:56:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:56:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:57:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:58:08 wb me 20:00:07 -!- Jophish has joined. 20:01:51 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 20:02:02 anyone know why 'noremap ' doesn't work as expected? 20:02:11 in what editor, vi? 20:02:29 yes 20:02:30 vim 20:02:32 at this point, I won't answer because I don't know, and ehird will start extolling the virtues of TECO 20:02:40 I can map 0, or C-a, but not C-0 20:09:00 http://fuckyoupenguin.blogspot.com/2009/03/tibetan-fox-thinks-hes-better-than-you.html 20:12:07 wow 20:12:09 os x supports klingon 20:12:12 take that, linux 20:12:56 it almost certainly supports klingon too 20:13:04 yeah but does gnome/kde? 20:13:08 out of the box? 20:13:10 while you install? 20:13:18 ay? ay? 20:13:26 * ais523 checks 20:14:05 well, it isn't installed by default AFAICT 20:14:13 presumably they wanted to save space on the CD for more useful things 20:14:29 in OS X, you never see any english text apart from "Mac OS X" and the menus in the installation language selection screen. 20:14:38 it is clearly far superior. the choice for discerning trekkies. 20:14:46 well. 20:14:50 I'm not sure it's an installer option. 20:14:54 you might have to do it post-install. 20:15:00 well, Ubuntu was specifically designed to install in pretty much any language you wanted 20:15:11 Lojban OS X would be fun 20:15:13 although klingon doesn't seem ot be in that list 20:15:44 anyway, I'd only need to install language-pack-gnome-tlh, language-pack-kde-tlh, and language-pack-tlh 20:15:53 and the system would fully support klingon 20:16:19 that's retarded, who the hell wants klingon 20:16:23 20:17:02 strangely it appears to be an Ubuntu package, not a Debian one 20:17:17 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/02/2009-02-25sl-4.jpg <- wow, snow leopard strips down the number of processors a lot 20:17:27 almost all 64-bit, too 20:17:34 err 20:17:36 processes 20:17:48 aalthough the cpu usage diagram doesn't match the list 20:17:50 fishy 20:18:30 Maybe it is designed to only show non-scary processes. 20:18:35 :D 20:18:51 "Process 1 (callhome) omitted FOR YOUR SAFETY." 20:18:59 ehird: processors, or processes? 20:19:12 19:17 ehird: err 20:19:12 19:17 ehird: processes 20:19:17 also, that's filtered, obviously 20:19:20 there's no init in that list 20:19:26 there's no init in my list, either 20:19:35 nor any other process with UID 1? 20:19:39 bbl 20:19:42 PID TTY TIME CMD 20:19:42 1 ?? 0:02.29 /sbin/launchd 20:19:43 * PID 1 20:19:45 OS X doesn't use init. 20:19:48 ah, ok 20:19:54 (launchd = init + cron + daemontools) 20:20:01 I generally refer to any PID 1 process as init 20:20:07 oh, and rc 20:20:10 and inted 20:20:37 init + cron is an interesting combination to have in the same file 20:20:41 but I suppose it makes sense 20:20:51 does it also contain an atd? 20:21:10 ((atd?)) 20:21:17 ehird: daemon for at 20:21:25 ((at?)) 20:21:31 ehird: like cron, but only runs once 20:21:35 NAME 20:21:35 at, batch, atq, atrm -- queue, examine, or delete jobs for later execu- 20:21:37 tion 20:21:39 cute 20:21:42 I think that's one of the options in a launchd thingy 20:21:45 to only run once 20:21:48 yep 20:21:58 actually, I'm mildly surprised at and cron are different programs 20:22:13 do half a thing and do it acceptably! 20:22:13 atd's stuck in my mind because it's been broken on ubuntu-proposed for months 20:22:33 despite me telling them exactly where the bug was (although not where to fix it) 20:22:41 *how to fix it 20:22:51 finding the bug's normally the hard part, though, rather than fixing it 20:23:48 I was going to complain that there seem to be no timing-related things in launchctl man page, but it seems that there are StartCalendarInterval-like properties that can be specified with a .plist file for a job. 20:24:14 fizzie: try man launchd 20:24:19 hmm, wait 20:24:21 launchd.plist 20:24:31 Yes, that's where I got it from. 20:24:36 ah 20:25:23 invoke-rc.d: initscript atd, action "start" failed. 20:25:25 dpkg: error processing at (--configure): 20:25:26 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 20:25:32 happens on every single change to my package configuration 20:25:41 * ais523 thinks that Ubuntu is not very responsive to bug reports 20:25:59 Apple are responsive to bug reports, but you don't know because you can't access their bug tracker 20:26:02 only submit to it 20:26:06 it's not even "write-only" 20:26:12 it's "creat-only" 20:26:23 weird 20:28:11 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at/+bug/158178 20:29:19 I'm actually slightly surprised a bug that manifests on every single change to the package manager hasn't annoyed more people by now 20:29:28 maybe at isn't a standard package 20:29:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:32:28 Traditional init is also rather funny; telinit (the control tool) and actual init are a single binary, and unlike other people (who use something like argv[0] to decide how to act) init does "isinit = (getpid() == 1); ... if (!isinit) exit(telinit(p, argc, argv));" 20:32:41 heh 20:45:42 wth 20:45:49 why the wth? 20:45:54 kde asked me what I wanted to do with a music cd I inserted 20:45:56 I don't use hal afaik 20:46:01 why did that happen... 20:46:04 do you use hotplug? 20:46:14 or that kde devices systray thing? 20:46:20 ais523, no and no 20:46:30 well I do use udev, but for cd it shouldn't affect it 20:46:41 + I have root only no-auto mount in fstab for cd 20:47:00 ok 20:47:07 are you sure this was on your computer? 20:47:15 I get confused sometimes when sshing around a lkot 20:47:16 *lot 20:47:19 AnMaster, I strongly suspect you've got HAL on there. 20:47:30 also this haven't happened before, I played a cd yesterday with no issues 20:47:39 Huh. *Weird*. 20:47:44 AnMaster: does /usr/lib/hal exist for you? 20:47:54 no 20:48:02 nor /usr/lib64/hal 20:48:08 /usr/sbin/hald? 20:48:16 nop 20:48:21 nor in bin 20:48:26 or wherever sbin stuff normally is for you 20:48:30 maybe kde has its own version of HAL or whatever 20:48:45 ehird: Not only no but hell no. 20:48:50 well since it is KDE 3 and I haven't upgraded anything I have no idea 20:48:58 Might have in the KDE 2 days... 20:49:00 pikhq: I wouldn't put it past KDE 20:49:01 I mean last upgraded was ~ 1 week ago 20:49:14 and I haven't rebooted or restarted X since then 20:49:51 KDE 3 did some of that *kind* of BS... They seem to have wised up since. 20:50:10 AnMaster uses KDE 3. 20:50:14 Because KDE 4 sucks because: 20:50:16 1) it's new 20:50:17 2) it's flashy 20:50:20 3) it works too well 20:50:20 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:50:25 At least, that's what I've gleaned from him. 20:50:52 err it doesn't, I tested it, and I couldn't get it to look the same as kde 3. I *could* get my KDE 3 to look like KDE 2 almost perfectly 20:50:58 not even close in KDE 4 20:51:02 3.5 works rather solidly; only KDE 4.2 has gotten KDE 4 up to the point where it could sanely replace KDE 3. 20:51:09 pikhq, 3.5.9 here 20:51:21 wow, kde 4 cannot look precisely like kde 2! 20:51:21 horrific. 20:51:33 that's basically a crime against humanity 20:51:56 KDE 4 still isn't really finished yet, I suspect 20:51:59 ehird, I fail to see why you are bothered that users have different taste? 20:52:00 it'll probably be production-ready around 4.4 20:52:07 but 4.2 is at least of releasable quality 20:52:22 I am completely unsurprised that KDE 3 could look like KDE 2 with ease... After all, KDE 3 was little more than a port of KDE 2 to Qt 3. 20:52:23 ais523, no. I think KDE 4 it will be production ready around KDE 5.0 release 20:52:25 AnMaster: it doesn't help that you try and advertise your opinions to others whenever they, say, talk about how they like KDE4. 20:52:54 AnMaster: I'd say it's rather close now... 20:53:03 ehird, So discussion and expressing opinions is forbidden now? 20:53:21 Hell, my only complaints with it ATM is Amarok being somewhat screwy still, and K3B hasn't been ported yet. 20:53:27 s/is/are/ 20:53:39 pikhq, wouldn't that be K4B? 20:53:47 No. But "Hey, KDE 4 is quite nice, it does such and such and such." "I don't like KDE4, too bloated, I use KDE 3.14" "Well, okay." "Ooh, this is nice about KDE 4, it—" "I don't like KDE4, too bloated, I use KDE 3.14" 20:53:49 Nope. 20:53:55 Repeat ad infinitum, and perhaps you can see why it's goddamn annoying. 20:53:58 ehird, 3.14? 20:54:06 K3B = KDE Burn, Baby, Burn. 20:54:12 oh I see 20:54:30 pikhq, well though I very seldom use k3b, when I do want to burn a cd I use it... 20:54:54 It's either that or crack open cdrecord. 20:54:59 easier than checking the syntax/name for $current_cdrecord_replacement 20:55:15 I think I managed to get the original one back. 20:55:42 cdrecord/cdrkit isn't hard to remember the syntax for if you're only using it to burn ISOs... 20:55:58 cdrecord dev=/dev/scd0 foo.iso; Whoo. 20:56:01 Heh, hearing cdrecord reminded me of a guy in #slicehost who was basically in internet-tears because his parents were complaining about him about something like spending too much time on the computer, and how they didn't understand that he maintained a "vital part of linux infrastructure" (= he contributed to a cd burning library that I've never heard of) 20:56:06 pikhq, well usually I don't just burn ISOs 20:56:23 Most of what I burn is ISOs. 20:56:29 Jorg schilling is crazy 20:56:43 And in the rare case I'm not, mkisofs is probably sufficient. 20:56:43 all he does is go around all day saying how all non-original cdrecords are evil and broken 20:56:44 pikhq, I need to remember mkisofs and/or how on earth to create music cds... 20:56:46 Osm 20:56:53 fizzie: Osm 20:56:55 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 20:57:00 ehird: "basically in internet-tears"? 20:57:02 A typoed "Isn'". 20:57:03 I don't think I've burned a music CD since middle school. 20:57:16 ais523: You come up with a better word. :P 20:57:16 ehird, err I'm *forced* to agree with him. the cdrkit fails to burn correct cd-rw in my drive 20:57:17 I was going to mention that it's Jörg, not Jorg 20:57:21 the original cdrecord works fine 20:57:28 ehird: I think that either he was in internet-tears, or he wasn't 20:57:32 cdrkit just results in unreadable cds 20:57:33 fizzie: that's a non-original name! 20:57:39 I'm making fun of him, see. <-- excuse 20:57:44 I burn capacitors and diodes more often than CDs, probably 20:57:44 AnMaster: Quite bizzare, considering cdrkit is a fork of cdrecord. 20:57:48 although not all that much recently 20:57:51 ais523: Schrödinger's internet tears 20:58:11 pikhq, yes, and in one case a erase of the cd-rw didn't even work... 20:58:20 which is just crazy 20:58:20 Freeow. 20:58:27 err? 20:58:46 * AnMaster googles 20:59:27 No definitions were found for Freeow. 20:59:31 H2G2 reference, misspelt. 20:59:49 Don't recall the right spelling. 20:59:53 hm... now that you mentions H2G2 it *does* sound slightly familiar 21:01:50 "Freeeow," he said. 21:01:56 So that was quite close. 21:05:00 fizzie, in which of the books? and context? 21:06:14 The Judiciary Pag, when pronouncing Krikkit's sentence at that trial thing. 21:06:31 isn't that from Mostly Harmless? 21:06:35 that was one fucked up book 21:06:41 no, it isn't 21:06:46 hm 21:06:48 while since I read h2g2 21:06:50 it's from LTUAE 21:07:14 The whole Krikkit/Hactar plot is in book 3, yes. 21:08:11 He scratched his crotch reflectively. "Freeeow," he said. He took another sip of water, then held it up to the light and frowned at it. He twisted it round. "Hey, is there something in this water?" he said. "Er, no, m'lud," said the Court Usher who had brought it to him, rather nervously. "Then take it away," snapped Judiciary Pag, "and put something in it. I got an idea." 21:08:18 That's a longer quote. 21:09:21 The character does have a habit of similar noises. Later on, on the beach: "Weeeeelaaaaah!" said Zipo Bibrok 5 / 108, and you would have had to have been there to know exactly why he said this. 21:10:42 I think that's supposed to be something like 5 x 10^8 or some-such; I'm not sure why it's a / there. Maybe this is some sort of OCR digitalization. 21:10:54 you don't really remember what is in which book when you have an omnibus edition 21:11:10 yeah, I have an omnibus 21:11:12 it's huge 21:11:21 GEB-sized 21:11:28 GEB being? 21:11:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach 21:12:42 ehird, Cambridge's dictionary - Advanced Edition is way larger and thicker though 21:12:57 I think I've mentioned this before, but on ircnet's #douglasadams we used to have a game where a bot pasted a small snippet (three lines, I think), and awarded a point to whoever was the quickest to correctly enter 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, depending on which book the quote was from. 21:13:00 that is not really comparable, AnMaster :P 21:13:06 ehird, but the largest one I have would be one at 3 kg... 21:13:14 wat 21:13:31 Since book1 and book4 start almost identically, sometimes the game was a bit difficult. 21:13:38 ehird, ? 21:13:45 3kg book? 21:13:49 correct 21:14:28 -!- oklopol has joined. 21:14:48 -!- tombom has joined. 21:15:21 fizzie, heh 21:15:30 Ah, I remember when I first got my H2G2 omnibus for Christmas... 21:15:38 I read the whole thing in 12 hours. 21:15:40 the craziest thing about my GEB? 21:15:42 it's a fucking PAPERBACK 21:15:48 Jebus. 21:15:50 it is the biggest paperback ever 21:16:00 ehird, my H2G2 is paperback 21:16:01 when you pick it up, a few gravitational collapses happen 21:16:04 and almost worn out 21:16:16 and the spine is your mortal enemy 21:16:18 what did you read in 12 hours? 21:16:21 ehird: mine's a paperback too 21:16:36 ais523: it's awful! 21:16:46 I don't have GEB, so I can't comment on it 21:16:59 the book itself is great 21:17:09 ehird, also how come you haven't yet asked what the 3 kg book is? 21:17:13 just wondering 21:17:18 oh geb 21:17:22 i assumed you'd tell me, AnMaster 21:17:23 oklopol: no 21:17:24 h2g2 21:17:26 omnibus 21:17:27 said pikhq 21:17:31 20:15 pikhq: Ah, I remember when I first got my H2G2 omnibus for Christmas... 21:17:31 20:15 pikhq: I read the whole thing in 12 hours. 21:17:32 ehird, so do you want to know or not? 21:17:35 surely YOU have scrollback... 21:17:37 AnMaster: sure. 21:17:40 oh i see 21:17:43 I think my heaviest book here is Kreyszig's Advanced Engineering Mathematics, 8th Edition (the paperback version, no less). Not that it's especially huge, mind you. I can't seem to find the specs, but the 9th edition hardcover has an amazon.com shipping weight of 2.2 kg. 21:17:53 ehird, complete history of the US airforce (yes I'm very interested in aircraft stuff as you probably know) 21:18:14 the heaviest book of all time is SICP. SICP is the only acceptable book. All others cannot achieve the SATORI given by SICP. Have _you_ read your SICP today? 21:18:49 ehird, err SATORI? aspell likes it so I guess it has to mean something, but firefox just segfaulted.... 21:18:59 SATORI, n. The unique property given by SICP. 21:19:03 SICP, n. The book giving SATORI. 21:19:26 Hmm. Heaviest book I've got here is either my H2G2 omnibus or my Emacs manual. 21:19:33 ah google was more helpful... now that firefox restarted... "(Zen Buddhism) a state of sudden spiritual enlightenment " 21:20:01 They should bind TAOCP together in a single book, that'd be quite a brick. 21:20:06 pikhq, you have a printed emacs manual? 21:21:06 fizzie: in PAPERBACK 21:21:15 fizzie, would it beat Tolkins' famous trilogy in omnibus? 21:21:18 pikhq: do you keep trying to use emacs keybindings on it 21:21:29 paper back of course 21:21:32 XD 21:21:51 An eyeball-based comparison says that my three-book-hardcover TAOCP is a bit larger in volume than my three-book-hardcover LOTR. 21:22:01 for emacs manual I actually think the context sensitive help inside emacs would be way faste 21:22:04 faster* 21:22:23 FireFly, hm 21:22:25 err 21:22:26 fizzie, ^ 21:22:44 SICP is actually NP-complete. Reading it requires a SATORI-card. 21:22:48 I can't be sure about this, but I think the individual books are also heavier, weight-wise. Certainly content-wise. 21:23:14 fizzie, well content-wise of course... 21:24:29 ehird, btw from google image search: http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/594/202468594.jpg 21:24:41 is that the spine? 21:24:44 really doesn't show how large or thick 21:25:11 ehird, the seal thing is embossed thingy, like sewn onto the cover... 21:25:18 so that's not the spine 21:25:19 :< 21:25:42 ehird, well it is larger than A4 too. Wait I can measure the size 21:25:54 THE SPINE IS LARGER THAN AN A4 PIECE OF PAPER? 21:25:57 ONE BOOK? WHAT THE FUCK. 21:26:08 and this is PAPERBACK?! 21:26:21 ehird: there's a famous picture of what the OOXML standard looked like printed out 21:26:32 6x24x34 21:26:38 cm 21:27:07 thickness width height 21:27:20 ehird, and not paper back no 21:27:24 oh. 21:27:46 ehird, spine, and fake leather on outside 21:28:04 hmm 21:28:06 how many pages is it? 21:28:22 sed 21:28:24 sec* 21:28:51 624, but the paper is very high quality thick and glossy 21:29:11 well not photo level glossy, but slightly glossy 21:29:14 AnMaster: publish Finnegan's Wake like that 21:29:15 :P 21:29:28 (or maybe an ayn rand book is longer) 21:29:35 hm? 21:29:37 * AnMaster googles 21:31:34 ok found a pic showing how thick it was 21:31:36 right 21:31:50 1000+ pages 21:31:56 ehird, the US airforce one is not as thick as it is large in other directions mainly 21:32:26 I mean I think I have seen a dictionary thicker than it, but not as large format. I have to have it on the top shelf, doesn't fit elsewhere... 21:32:59 Kreyszig: 25.5 cm high, 20 cm wide, 6 cm thick; number of pages... uh, last page is I-20. Before I-1 there's A97. They're not making this easy. Before A1 comes page 1156. And before page 1 there's page xvi. So I guess the lower bound is 16+1156+97+20 = 1289 pages. 21:33:29 -!- Jophish has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:33:52 have you read it? 21:33:58 fizzie, that is *far* from the 34 cm high and 23 wide... 21:33:58 -!- Jophish has joined. 21:34:26 AnMaster: It's still >2 kg, though. Dense stuff. 21:34:30 ok 21:34:44 oklopol: A reasonable percentage of it, but not comprehensively. 21:35:04 also the page count I gave above was large numbered page. So add uh *checks* 4 to that 21:35:22 fizzie: are you an advanced engineer then? 21:35:27 wait 21:35:32 advanced engineering mathematician 21:35:35 fizzie, "Kreyszig"? I can't find any book with that name with google 21:35:39 only people with that name 21:35:43 ... 21:35:47 of course it's a name 21:35:51 oh 21:35:52 AnMaster: I did mention the complete name of the book, earlier. 21:35:55 tons of textbooky things are referred to by their name 21:35:56 e.g. K&R 21:35:57 * AnMaster looks 21:35:57 err 21:35:59 by their author's, names 21:36:06 Advanced Engineering Mathematics, 8th Edition. 21:36:14 ehird: tons of textbooky things are referred to by their name too, though 21:36:19 :D 21:36:19 so you were right first time as well 21:36:26 oklopol: I'm not very advanced. Maybe I should've read more. 21:36:27 ehird, TAOCP? SICP? 21:36:41 People have cited TAOCP as Knuth, in my experience. 21:36:50 SICP is, of course, [b]The Sussman[/b]. 21:36:52 i just refer to books by their isbn 21:37:03 ehird, "the wizard book" 21:37:07 But if you say [b]The Sussman[/b] too much, your [b]Satori[/b] is revoked. 21:37:41 While looking for Kreyszig, I also came across "Seven-place values of trigonometric functions", "compiled by dr. J. Peters". This is a small book, but on the other hand it's useless too. 21:37:55 ehird, http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/cover.jpg lists three authors btw. 21:37:57 *shrug* 21:38:08 Abelson is filthy traitor of Forced Indentation of Code. 21:38:15 fizzie: lol just a massive list? :D 21:38:19 Julie Sussman is The Sussman's alter-ego. 21:38:38 Everything I say is indisputable. Brb -> 21:38:39 what about that book 21:38:46 10000 random numbers or something? 21:38:46 err 21:38:47 <- 21:38:48 even more 21:38:49 That's useful. 21:38:58 But on the front inner cover it has a taped-on label: "This book has been presented to Finland by the Government of the United States of America, under Public Law 265, 81st Congress, as an expression of the friendship and good will which the people of the United States hold for the people of Finland." 21:39:00 ehird, yes but it should be rather thick and heavy right? 21:39:04 ah. 21:39:04 -> 21:39:41 fizzie, uh.... ? 21:39:52 That's what it says; I don't know what it means. 21:39:53 that's like crazy 21:39:57 fizzie: so they love us enough to write a 2 minute python script to generate the table? 21:40:21 "Originally published in Germany as Siebenstellige Werte der Trigonometrischen Funktionen"; Copyright, 1918, 1938. 21:40:22 fizzie, a joke label on your copy? If it is second hand I'd guess so 21:40:24 It's a bit old. 21:40:29 And it's no joke. 21:40:34 mhm 21:40:43 I assume it was donated to our university library; that's where I got it from. 21:40:49 probably not much python scripting back then. 21:41:16 well googling for "Public Law 265, 81st Congress" did return relevant results... 21:41:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:41:28 hi oerjan! 21:41:34 hi! 21:41:36 oerjan, hiwc 21:41:45 * oerjan swats AnMaster -----### 21:41:51 hi all 21:42:27 oerjan, btw I need to borrow your frying pan. Firefox segfaulted randomly a lot today... And KDE decided to start asking about CDs that I insert... 21:43:31 AnMaster: maybe you caught a virus that silently replaced Linux with Windows whilst trying to keep everything looking the same so you didn't notice 21:43:33 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 21:44:02 ais523: was it you who won the wolfram thing? 21:44:07 ais523, then they should provide it for windows as a replacement for cygwin. I mean I done lots of POSIX specific programming today 21:44:14 lament: yes 21:44:45 why do you ask, by the way? 21:45:58 -!- neldoret1 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 21:46:08 also wth, yesterday xine refused to show track names for this cd, and I knew it was in freedb (checked with cd-info), this morning it showed them. Now it doesn't again... 21:46:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:46:30 ais523, either windows or centos. Hard to say... 21:46:44 AnMaster: what does uname display? 21:46:55 Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 x86_64 AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux 21:47:08 which is what I would expect it to say 21:47:32 They have been thourough and faked that, too. 21:47:38 indeed 21:47:57 AnMaster: it's a windsor sauce pan, not a frying pan. but here you are. ===\___/ 21:48:24 oerjan, question about usage, it isn't "swats", what is the right word? 21:48:29 "hits"? 21:49:01 ah 21:49:05 or? 21:49:37 you can't really "swat" with a sauce pan 21:49:42 "bash" might do 21:49:47 well yeah "hits". 21:49:53 * AnMaster hits Firefox with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ 21:49:56 * AnMaster hits KDE with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ 21:50:02 * AnMaster hits xine with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ 21:50:12 * AnMaster ahnds the sauce pan back to oerjan 21:50:14 but i think "clobbers" is also a nice word 21:50:15 hands* 21:50:41 i see you used it well ===\/\/ 21:50:52 also linux can fake uname. How else would this work: 21:50:53 $ linux32 uname -a 21:50:53 Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux 21:50:55 * oerjan sends it for repairs 21:50:59 meant for 32-bit chroots 21:51:02 oerjan, no need 21:51:04 I can fix it 21:51:14 oerjan, just hand it back 21:51:17 for a sec 21:51:27 ok ===\/\/ 21:51:46 AnMaster: is there a 32-bit version of linux32? 21:51:48 * AnMaster turns oerjan's sauce pan upside down and hits KDE again ===/^^^\ 21:52:01 marvelous technique 21:52:02 well there is probably some nifty unicode for line at top 21:52:07 but I don't know it 21:52:29 oh, there is, and I have it installed 21:52:42 oerjan, so the corrugated ^^^ is just a rendering issue 21:52:54 when you turn it you will see it is perfectly flat 21:53:01 * AnMaster hands the saucepan back to oerjan 21:53:14 * oerjan checks the saucepan carefully ===\___/ 21:53:33 ais523, that makes no sense on 32-bit linux 21:53:43 it only makes sense if you can run more than one ABI 21:53:47 like AMD64 21:54:00 ais523@dell:~$ setarch i686 21:54:02 ais523@dell:~$ uname -a 21:54:03 Linux dell 2.6.27-11-generic #1 SMP Thu Jan 29 19:24:39 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux 21:54:07 err 21:54:14 course it makes sense 21:54:18 ais523, it doesn't change shell? 21:54:20 admittedly, it doesn't change anything 21:54:21 or? 21:54:22 AnMaster: yes it does 21:54:30 just the new shell looked identical to the old one 21:54:46 why would you expect it to look different? 21:55:01 ais523, I almost always use the linux32 symlink with "chroot" 21:55:16 ais523, so I wasn't aware of that it defaulted to "new shell" 21:55:37 ais523, setarch --help lists more interesting stuff 21:57:18 ehird: Unknown language "-" 21:57:21 from lisp paste 21:57:25 not sure what went wrong 21:57:45 wait I see 21:57:48 forget it 21:58:33 ais523, my setarch has all these options: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76852 maybe it varies between platforms 21:58:55 setarch changes the uname system call that programs use to decide what libraries to load, etc 21:59:13 and I have the same version of setarch as you, more or less 21:59:14 it's the same options 21:59:24 linux32 is a symlink to setarch, or a wrapper around it 21:59:27 ais523, hm. How does it change the uname system call? 21:59:43 I don't know, presumably there's an API for doing that sort of thing 22:00:14 it isn't LD_PRELOAD since it works on statically linked busybox 22:00:19 $ setarch i686 /bin/busybox uname -a 22:00:19 Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 i686 unknown 22:00:30 $ /bin/busybox uname -a 22:00:30 Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 x86_64 unknown 22:00:47 ais523, ah strace told me: 22:00:48 personality(PER_LINUX32) = 0 22:00:51 wth? 22:00:59 -!- atrapado has joined. 22:01:06 this is great. Linux has *split personalities* 22:01:09 :D 22:01:20 SYNOPSIS 22:01:20 #include 22:01:20 int personality(unsigned long persona); 22:01:46 "04:44 PM" 22:01:48 :( 22:01:52 lament, err? 22:02:03 it means 16:44 22:02:51 huh 22:03:03 enum { blah = 0, }; 22:03:07 is that supposed to work? 22:03:09 AnMaster: that's legal 22:03:21 ais523, shouldn't there be some type name for the enum somewhere? 22:03:23 trailing commas are allowed inside enums in C 22:03:25 The swatter requires oerjan-nature. :( 22:03:27 MU 22:03:28 It's for people who have a #define rash. 22:03:40 ais523, and the comma wasn't the issue... 22:03:43 AnMaster: implicit int IIRC 22:03:56 Alternatively, smallest integer that fits them all 22:04:08 s/ger/gral/ 22:04:50 oh, and the lack of typename, I think it's legal 22:04:56 I'm not sure if no typename and no variable is legal 22:04:56 but enum { blah = 0, } foo; is certainly legal 22:04:57 ais523, from /usr/include/sys/personality.h (but not as short) 22:04:57 ais523, and no variable 22:04:57 just like struct { int bar; } quux; is legal 22:04:57 I mean what use would struct { int bar; }; be ?! 22:04:57 well for enum it could still be used though 22:05:04 Nothing, but for enum it is legal. 22:05:07 ais523, just I would have expected either enum foo { ... }; or a typedef 22:05:16 mhm 22:05:39 well 22:05:45 no docs what the flags do there 22:05:59 STICKY_TIMEOUTS, WHOLE_SECONDS? 22:06:00 C has structural bars 22:06:11 I mean ADDR_LIMIT_3GB is quite self explaining... 22:06:19 but whole seconds where? 22:07:13 AnMaster: it disables an optimisation, normally if your computer isn't doing anything for a while it uses the excess processing power to do a bit of timetravel, small fractions of each second are sent back to kernel.org where they can be stockpiled for restoring the Earth in the case of an apocalypse 22:07:28 some people don't like programs that call home, so the option's there to turn it off 22:07:38 ais523, that humor is just too absurd... 22:07:55 oerjan, hah 22:08:13 ais523, MMAP_PAGE_ZERO? 22:08:24 AnMaster: heh, I've just realised what that would do 22:08:29 what? 22:08:32 it would mean that NULL would become a legal pointer-to-data 22:08:37 well 22:09:05 ais523, you can still on x86 mmap() at 0, for example if you are going to mess with vm86() 22:10:35 ais523, atm I'm grepping kernel source to find WHOLE_SECONDS and STICKY_TIMEOUTS... the other flags I can make quite educated guesses about 22:12:05 um 22:12:07 this is strange 22:12:08 * oerjan chops a second in two and donates half to science 22:12:17 it is only mentioned in Documentation and header file 22:12:20 nowhere in source... 22:12:21 ?! 22:12:30 On a C64 you have to be tricky of you want to write to the first two bytes; there's memory-mapped registers at locations 0 and 1. 22:12:51 fizzie, hardware registers? 22:13:01 as in, non-cpu ones? 22:13:21 on a PIC, reading from or writing to address 0 is how you do indirect addressing 22:13:33 wth 22:13:39 shouldn't the constant be used on the source 22:13:42 I tried several 22:13:45 and found nothing 22:14:11 Yes. Address 0 controls the read/read-write mode of address 1, while 1 has a couple of rather random bits related to the "MMU" and other stuff. 22:15:24 ok STICKY_TIMEOUTS hit something 22:15:41 Actually it's called "processor port", so they might be implemented in the CPU; maybe they toggle some CPU pins or something. It's been a couple of years since I last even saw a 6510. 22:16:23 Yes, it seems that the address 0/1 stuff is pretty much what differentiates a 6510 (used in C64) from a 6502; there's a 6-bit I/O port in it, controlled by that register. 22:16:25 it seems related to select() timeout 22:16:30 not sure about details 22:18:06 it would mean that NULL would become a legal pointer-to-data 22:18:07 no 22:18:09 not exactly 22:18:36 error = do_mmap(NULL, 0, PAGE_SIZE, PROT_READ | PROT_EXEC, 22:18:36 MAP_FIXED | MAP_PRIVATE, 0); 22:19:02 SVr4 compat... 22:19:24 I didn't even know linux emulated that ABI 22:19:24 PROT_NONE for 100% safety! 22:20:30 -!- asiekierk has quit (Connection timed out). 22:27:02 20:57 AnMaster: not sure what went wrong 22:27:05 well, what happened? 22:27:09 what was the issue? 22:27:26 ehird, do you mean the KDE thing, the Firefox thing or the xine thing? 22:27:31 lisppaste 22:27:33 language - 22:27:34 ah 22:27:35 oh 22:27:36 did you do 22:27:38 lisppaste - lang? 22:27:39 instead of 22:27:41 lisppaste lang - 22:27:42 ehird, no 22:27:47 what then? 22:27:50 lisppaste - <(command) 22:28:00 that should work 22:28:05 ehird, no 22:28:07 it expands to 22:28:15 ah 22:28:15 lisppaste - /dev/fd/23 22:28:17 or such 22:28:17 I see 22:28:25 hmmmm 22:28:28 I should make the title configurable 22:28:34 "/dev/fd/63" is not very helpful 22:28:43 ehird, why 63? 22:28:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76853 22:28:52 /dev/fd/63 22:28:57 ah yes 22:29:12 it came up as Anonymous; haven't you set LISPPASTE_USER? 22:29:32 ehird, no, I don't like polluting our environment 22:29:38 heh 22:29:49 AnMaster: you can just $EDITOR `which lisppaste` 22:29:50 and put 22:29:52 LISPPASTE_USER=AnMaster 22:29:53 in 22:30:01 um it isn't in PATH 22:30:10 $EDITOR /path/to/lisppaste 22:30:18 although I don't know why you want a command line tool if not for PATH convenienc 22:30:19 e 22:30:48 ~/bin/lisppaste is a symlink to ~/irc/freenode/esoteric/ehird/lisppaste 22:31:02 and ~/bin is in your path is it not? 22:31:06 ehird, it isn't 22:31:09 o_O 22:31:13 ehird, that would be insecure! 22:31:15 ~~ 22:31:23 AnMaster: is your home partition mounted noexec? 22:31:23 yes, you could give yourself a virus 22:31:37 ais523, no it isn't actually 22:31:43 ais523, but it might be a good idea 22:31:46 DON'T GIVE HIM IDE— 22:31:47 if I weren't a programmer 22:32:05 ehird: even if I gave AnMaster an IDE, he probably wouldn't use it 22:32:08 heh 22:32:09 AnMaster: do you think adding paste annotation is a worthy feature? 22:32:12 I'm not sure how I'd do it 22:32:21 maybe if you give a number instead of or with a language 22:32:21 ais523, Indeed I prefer SATA 22:32:23 it'd annotate that paste 22:32:36 % lisppaste 76853 <(setarch --help) 22:32:48 ehird, I shall make a language called 76853 22:32:57 it shall be a HQ9+ variant 22:32:59 AnMaster: you have to get p.lisp.org to support it 22:33:08 (because I can't think anything else up right now) 22:33:18 ehird, ok true 22:33:57 [ehird:/Previous Systems.localized/2009-02-11_1200/Users/ehird/Documents/Code] % find <-- searching for old code gives me a wonderous prompt of verbosity 22:35:34 ehird, why "Previous System" 22:35:46 AnMaster: it's the system before my upgrade to leopard 22:35:48 Archive & Install 22:35:48 I remember that back on pre-OS X and old windows. All the reinstalls 22:35:55 ehird, that seems strange 22:36:05 no I'm not just attacking OS X 22:36:09 It's a nice excuse to clean out my system :P 22:36:11 I'm attacking lots of other OS too 22:36:15 Also, upgrades are generally flaky on most OSes. 22:36:24 Even Linux can be a bit odd after a full distro release upgrade. 22:36:25 like Windows and many linux distros 22:36:34 ehird, exactly. Which is why I prefer rolling release 22:36:41 they have good upgrade handling 22:36:44 Rolling release is pretty good, but not really commercializable 22:36:47 because it happens so often 22:36:54 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:36:57 commercial software is pretty much a ghetto of releases 22:37:06 well I guess you can make more money that wya 22:37:08 way* 22:37:19 ehird, what distros apart from arch and gentoo use rolling release? 22:37:24 None that I know of. 22:37:28 mhm 22:37:32 ehird: rolling release is trivially commercialisable, just make someone rent the OS not buy it 22:37:35 what about that one with insane paths 22:37:37 what was the name 22:37:41 gobolinux 22:37:42 gobolinux 22:37:42 right 22:37:44 in fact, many computer games are becoming episodic nowadays 22:37:48 I would call it 'sane' 22:37:54 ais523: Ugh, I would hate to rent an OS 22:38:01 ehird, ok, lets ignore that wording for a second 22:38:13 eww, renting a OS 22:38:16 no way 22:38:31 I mean the security concerns 22:38:40 since they have to be able to take it back somehow 22:38:43 an EULA is as far as I'll go for digital purchasing thingies 22:39:05 I wouldn't accept an EULA that either isn't GPL or very short 22:39:07 I'm not happy with OS X's EULA forbidding installation on non-macs, either 22:39:13 AnMaster: GPL is a license, not an EULA 22:39:29 ehird, true, but it does partly fill the same function 22:39:30 licenses just cover distribution, EULAs cover use 22:39:37 ok true 22:40:25 sometimes people using windows auto-installer-creators put the GPL in the EULA slot 22:40:30 ha 22:40:35 because the installer can't grasp that an EULA might not be wanted 22:40:36 lets see. I haven't bought an OS since I got my ibook ages ago 22:40:40 first model ibook 22:40:41 Hm. A game called "Stalin VS Martians". 22:41:02 ais523, ah yes indeed I have seen that 22:41:05 It seems to be about Stalin, fighting martians. 22:41:27 I've also seen auto-installer things just put in the EULA "This work is licensed under the GPL."... 22:41:33 ehird, link? 22:41:38 http://stalinvsmartians.com/en/ 22:41:39 So, presumably you agree that it is, in fact, GPL'd. 22:41:40 ;) 22:41:42 Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGnNbKfpx9k 22:41:45 It seems to be a RTS 22:41:56 mhm 22:42:21 I never thought I'd see a cheerful 3D Stalin dancing. 22:44:18 this is a joke right? 22:44:23 It's a real game. 22:44:28 The trailer appears to be un-serious-ly. 22:44:29 no way 22:44:51 http://stalinvsmartians.com/screenshot0003.jpg 22:44:57 I pre-emptively deem it Game of the Year. 22:45:23 wow. 22:45:57 is that trailer made by the company or as a joke by someone else? 22:46:04 company 22:46:10 no way. again 22:46:18 [[Vopros: Can we play as Stalin himself? 22:46:18 Otvet: Yes, but not from the start. Stalin is our commander and he gives us orders. Closer to the grand finale he will appear on the battlefield as a playable unit - a huge colossus, five times higher than any other creature. Just like it was in the real life.]] 22:46:40 ...? 22:46:46 From their FAQ. 22:46:55 what is this company? 22:47:02 Three companies, apparently. 22:47:10 major ones or? 22:47:18 "A BWF/DREAMLORE/N-GAME CO-PRODUCTION". 22:47:20 Never heard of them. 22:47:23 indeed 22:47:35 http://bwf-game.com/ 22:47:39 http://www.dreamloregames.com/ 22:47:39 http://www.ngsdev.com/ 22:47:45 Latter two are in russian. 22:48:11 OH MY FUCKING GOD 22:48:13 http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html 22:48:47 um 22:48:51 wth 22:49:00 "Update: We've received information about Tony's home address that we believe to be current. The police are sending a team there now." 22:49:03 Let's hope it's not too late... 22:49:10 ok 22:49:18 the police were there 22:49:21 Agh, he's left on his bike... 22:49:23 he left on a motorbike 22:49:31 lament: hello, ehird 22:51:12 ehird, they arrived 1 second apart here 22:51:34 ehird, possibly less from lament's point of view 22:51:40 probably even 22:52:36 After me and another mentioned it: 22:52:36 21:51 Eridius: this discussion is already in #haskell-blah 22:52:38 What a fuckwit. 22:52:48 ehird, btw that thing on nabble... I never heard of this person 22:52:56 He's in the scala/haskell etc communities 22:55:08 ehird, btw what is nabble exactly? 22:55:08 AnMaster: do you know what system var to set to add to gcc's default include path? 22:55:13 nabble is a mailing list archiver 22:55:18 that was posted to the scala mailing list 22:55:29 ehird, no not off the top of my head 22:55:46 ehird, I would use command line instead 22:55:55 HELP 22:55:58 I'm installing with RubyGems, so 22:55:58 or for autotools CPPFLAGS 22:56:01 comex: WHAT 22:56:02 why is vim indenting two tabs when I press enter 22:56:11 you have autoindent set 22:56:13 except fucked 22:56:14 I guess. 22:56:18 autoindent: uses the indent from the previous line. 22:56:26 cindent, then 22:56:27 or w/e 22:56:43 ehird, modify the file that calls gcc? 22:56:45 seems easiest 22:56:48 uh, no. 22:56:51 wtf 22:56:54 :set nocindent worked 22:56:55 but not from vimrc 22:56:56 also check if rubygem has a way to do it 22:57:08 comex, does the file include one of those mode lines? 22:57:28 aha, C_INCLUDE_PATH 22:57:40 ehird, is that the rubygem one? 22:57:42 oh 22:57:43 per buffer 22:57:44 no 22:57:44 gcc 22:57:47 ah 22:57:49 comex: maybe it's set automatically from a language-specific setup file? 22:58:02 what about modeline? 22:58:09 in the file 22:59:37 night 22:59:49 ehird, btw what is nabble exactly? 22:59:50 well? 22:59:55 I answered. 22:59:59 oh 23:00:01 right 23:00:03 I see now 23:00:06 missed it 23:00:12 night anyway 23:04:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:04:15 oh god I love vim 23:04:19 it takes me to the line with an error 23:04:51 comex: what editor doesn't do that? 23:04:56 seriously? 23:05:09 even BC++ for Windows did that ten years ago, and it was pretty rubbish 23:08:54 ehird! :D 23:09:17 ais523: kate? :p 23:09:31 any IDE will do it, but vim grabs the line from the make error 23:09:33 psygnisfive: http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html 23:09:38 comex: so does emacs 23:09:40 (just linking in case there's anything you can do) 23:09:43 ais523: I don't use emacs 23:09:56 ehird 23:10:01 did you see what i commented on earlier? 23:10:05 No. What? 23:11:15 { (x,y) : x,y in N, &(x,y) = 0 } 23:11:23 Ah, yes. 23:11:30 Sierpinski shows up everywhere. 23:11:47 i know :o 23:11:49 also 23:11:51 who is tony morris? 23:12:18 dobblego from #haskell, apparently 23:12:25 aka dibblego 23:12:29 Also on programming reddit. 23:12:48 dunno him. 23:15:20 I hate to break this to you but they took tin foil off the market years ago, its all aluminum now, the tin stuff worked. 23:15:25 best conspiracy theory ever 23:15:30 heh 23:15:31 http://www.amzi.com/articles/prolog_under_the_hood.htm 23:15:34 should 'ail.' read 'fail.'? 23:15:46 hurnan should read human, too. 23:16:04 the reminds me of a joke some irish comedian told 23:16:28 "whats this 'aluminum foil' americans use? noone says 'aluminum foil', thats all wrong! everyone knows its said 'tin foil'." 23:17:16 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 23:18:14 my brief browsings on the stuff make me believe a tinfoil hat is a useless mind control ray stopper, as the open bottom prevents it from being an efficient faraday cage 23:18:34 if you want to be safe, you need a tinfoil burka 23:18:54 with a fine metal mesh over the eyes 23:19:48 oh and closed at the bottom 23:20:01 i guess steel shoes would do 23:20:05 tinfoil catsuit 23:20:32 * oerjan googles for tinfoil burka and gets several hits 23:23:03 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:23:13 -!- olsner has joined. 23:40:27 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 23:44:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:48:01 psygnisfive: what's that formula, again? 23:48:29 [ (x `band` y) == 0 | x <- [0..w], y <- [0..h] ] 23:48:30 { (x,y) : x,y in N, &(x,y) = 0 } 23:48:30 Right? 23:48:36 where band = bitwise and. 23:48:53 yah but you dont want [ (band x y) == 0 ...] 23:49:05 -!- jix_ has quit ("..."). 23:49:09 because that'll just give you [T,F,T,...] 23:49:12 Right. 23:49:12 you want the points themselves 23:49:15 that should be a condition, not the result 23:49:16 Er? 23:49:24 I was using mine to draw a bitmap. 23:49:29 Where False = black and True = white. 23:49:47 oh 23:49:52 yeah but whats the type of that list? 23:49:56 [Bool]. 23:49:59 exactly 23:50:07 how can you draw a bitmap for that? :P 23:50:11 its just a list of bools 23:50:20 you need a list of point-bool pairs 23:50:30 Well, you know w and h. 23:50:37 So you take w elements, and go down one. 23:50:48 [[(x `band` y) == 0 | x <- [0..w]] | y <- [0..h]] might be better 23:50:49 yyyyyes but thats not what you wrote :) 23:51:04 what you wrote was just a list of T,F 23:51:15 not a list of what points are T and what are false 23:51:50 anyway you obviously dont need to code it like that 23:52:02 * oerjan starts swatting psygnisfive then thinks better of it 23:52:03 you can just doubly iterate 23:52:04 -!- neldoreth has joined. 23:52:09 why are you swatting me? 23:52:13 you know what i say is true! 23:52:14 sierpinski :: Integer -> Integer -> [(Integer,Integer)] 23:52:15 sierpinski w h = [ (x,y) | x <- [0..w], y <- [0..h], x .&. y == 0 ] 23:52:25 Now to write the rest -> 23:52:25 exactly. 23:52:34 Very beautiful formula, though. 23:52:38 Even nicer than the chaos game. 23:52:44 but im not writing it in haskell so :p 23:53:05 i odnt know haskell's image generating utilities 23:53:14 just generate console output :P 23:53:25 i suppose. but i dont know how to do that either :D 23:53:31 putChar 23:54:10 or putStr after you combine everything 23:54:27 sierpinski' :: Integer -> Integer -> [[Bool]] 23:54:27 sierpinski' w h = [ [ x .&. y == 0 | x <- [0..w] ] | y <- [0..h] ] 23:54:30 ^ easier to use 23:54:35 i suppose actually you could just do something like... build the appropriate [[Char]]s and then map putChar 23:54:36 or something 23:54:44 but i dont really care, so 23:54:45 map putChar = putStr, duh. 23:55:01 anyway 23:55:05 there you have it 23:55:07 mapM_, technically 23:55:10 yes yes 23:58:13 its pretty nifty tho innit ehird 23:58:45 something so simple as &(N,N) gives you the sierpinski gasket 23:58:49 putStr . unlines . map (map (\b -> if b then '*' else ' ')) $ sierpinski' w h 23:58:51 maybe. 23:58:55 heh 23:58:56 I just wrote that 23:58:58 finalizing it now 23:59:42 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").