< 1238976089 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1238977780 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1238978001 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238978058 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1238978072 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1238978095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The services have a swatter too... < 1238978130 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1238978170 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1238978302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't know "tdeious" either < 1238978311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it must be a loan from georgian < 1238978339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comment makes oklopol sound like a text adventure. < 1238978352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm? < 1238978361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238978379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well oklopol is an adventure all right < 1238978387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't know how to 'tdeious'." < 1238978487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"See the tdeious people of Tbilisi wandering by the Mt'k'vari river" < 1238978663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they would probably be tsrolling, actually < 1238978752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google has this "Tony Davies Column - The TDeious way of doing Fourier transformation" but that's about it. < 1238978765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1238981601 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1238981605 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238981709 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1238981928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooo < 1238981958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how goes < 1238981983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a small-scale pröb with sleeping atm. < 1238981998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try eating more mööse < 1238982006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1238982013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLIO THE FALL < 1238982021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF THE SEMAPHORE < 1238982037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's been playing in my head for a few days < 1238982132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a continuation to the "source encoding and compression" song that started playing in my head when reading, well, about exactly that < 1238982157 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1238982226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1238982236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more attempting at them sleepings < 1238982237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1238982284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes it's "semaphoo-oor", elongated to sound like "semaphore whore") < 1238982291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oore < 1238982342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the source encoding and compression song has, in the chorus, this spanish dude saying "compressioni", with a very spanish "ioni", it's hilarious) < 1238982348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) < 1238982406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um -ioni would be italian, i think < 1238983041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly hard to find, the spanish is compresiones < 1238985943 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1238987124 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238987141 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-25.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1238990270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::8) < 1238994673 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1239000539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239001637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1239002849 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@203-217-36-245.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1239003978 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-81-51.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1239004029 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1239004799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1239004800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1239005636 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1239006603 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239006903 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239006933 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-229-1.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1239008526 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239009861 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1239010670 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1239010860 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1239010892 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239012143 0 :Asztal_!n=asztal@host86-163-45-19.range86-163.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1239012263 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@ti0056a341-0392.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1239013009 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-83-144.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1239013040 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest2384 < 1239013110 0 :Guest2384!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :M0ny < 1239013119 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1239013125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1239013142 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you ? < 1239013146 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239013159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M0ny: tired < 1239013170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just finished handing in my final Master's report < 1239013270 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1239014310 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1239014709 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer" < 1239015692 0 :oklopol_!n=ville@a91-153-113-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1239015974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :˙ʅodoʅʞo < 1239016011 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello fuzzie < 1239016026 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first crash, i forgot how awesome ubuntu was < 1239016044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239016094 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the exam was a mockery of my memorization skills, gzip's was the only algorithm you needed to know by name (from the "subalgorithms") < 1239016152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that nʇunqn is rather upside-down-friendly even with much special charactersies. < 1239016170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they designed it that way. < 1239016176 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with much special charactersies? < 1239016178 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with little? < 1239016189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, was trying to say "without" there. < 1239016191 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe like few but < 1239016202 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right that's even better < 1239016361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that exam all about, anyway? < 1239016412 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's gzip about? < 1239016442 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i have no idea, i just memorize the text. < 1239016458 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1239016471 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found out why mycology wants storage offset so many times < 1239016472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't they ask anything else than direct quotations? < 1239016480 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is because of the ky in HRTI < 1239016503 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every other time that will push whatever corresponds to the top cell (flags) < 1239016511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it doubtful that oklopol's university only asks simple questions because of the ky in HRTI. < 1239016519 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1239016527 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wasn't talking about that < 1239016547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I found it more amusing to interpret it that way. < 1239016563 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was just about to start googling what you meant by ky < 1239016577 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumed hrti was a way to acrynomize our university. < 1239016581 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*acronymize < 1239016624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: Holy Righteous Turkuean Institution? Or was that what you were from, anyway? < 1239016636 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well actually the gzip thing was like "explain the lz77 family, and how gzip implements the algo" < 1239016638 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1239016650 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get perfect points by simply memorizing < 1239016661 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes i'm from turku. < 1239016715 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there was just one apply algo type question, so you could've passed it with an okay grade without having any idea what it was about < 1239016728 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High Resolution Timer Interface < 1239016735 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a befunge98 fingerprint < 1239016736 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239016754 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's allowed to use the exact same wordings < 1239016819 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually first list every fact the text mentions, then try to generalize the idea to sound a bit smarter than necessary. < 1239016819 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/HRTI.html < 1239016829 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: thanks < 1239016868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "ky" is not directly explained by that. I guess it's just "something that takes a measurable amount of time"? < 1239016869 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's the one that sucks < 1239016877 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1239016906 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: T after M pushed 5 and a second T, after 675 ys, pushed 60324 < 1239016913 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should definitely invert the granularity to be ticks per second instead of seconds per tick < 1239016922 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again i guess you said that last night. < 1239016924 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(debug build, otherwise it wouldn't be so slow) < 1239017014 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a release build it is more like 7363 < 1239017024 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and after this change I just made: 6720) < 1239017053 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This timer is not affected by 'time travel' contrivances. <<< awww < 1239017077 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. should probably eat and start studying for my next exam. < 1239017080 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is..... < 1239017099 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :professor architectures. < 1239017100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Real" time-related interfaces seem to tend to fixed resolution, though. Admittedly clock(3) does CLOCKS_PER_SEC ticks, and the win32 performance-counters API too, but gettimeofday(3) is strictly microseconds-only, and clock_gettime(3) is nanoseconds-only, with a clock_getres(3) call returning resolution in nanoseconds too. < 1239017124 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use clock_gettime() in cfunge if it exists btw < 1239017134 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no reason why befunge shouldn't do it better. < 1239017139 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for initialising PRNG and for HRTI < 1239017145 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fall back on gettimeofday() < 1239017173 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : professor architectures. <-- :D < 1239017174 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those 3's? < 1239017181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: Man page sections. < 1239017182 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, man page sections < 1239017192 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239017195 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP FLOODING < 1239017207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 is something like "C library routines for C programs" according to one definition. < 1239017238 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1239017243 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need that unix book. < 1239017251 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a lookup table for all y indexes between 1 and (whatever is the largest fixed one). Inclusive < 1239017289 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could just pick from a stack generated once if I decide to never implement EVAR < 1239017309 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I need to handle some specially yes < 1239017310 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :environment variables? < 1239017325 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, EVAR is a fingerprint for changing environment variables yes < 1239017333 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just changing? :D < 1239017348 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, you can read them with y < 1239017355 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1239017364 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess EVAR has reading too < 1239017368 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember details < 1239017374 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the details* < 1239017399 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should remember the details for EVAR. < 1239017404 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1239017413 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story. < 1239017414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's "look up by name", "look up by index", "set by name" and "get amount of variables" in EVAR. < 1239017419 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239017425 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it's rather short < 1239017426 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pun < 1239017460 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that "index" assuming that the list of env variables is sorted < 1239017473 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay noodles, meat and ed, how does that sound for gourmet foods < 1239017481 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: DID YOU GET THE PUN < 1239017485 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly it seems ccbi sorts them, but I don't < 1239017489 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: The order is not defined. It's just the nth environment variable. < 1239017489 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, what pun < 1239017493 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1239017503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: You can load that fingerprint with (4"EVAR" if you're moving right-to-left. < 1239017507 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see continuation to long story < 1239017514 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, augh! < 1239017523 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, I still don't get it. < 1239017537 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: well at least fizzie did < 1239017553 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh was that some infinite time joke < 1239017555 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1239017560 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239017560 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, far fetched < 1239017567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All oklopol_'s jokes are infinite. < 1239017570 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish ehird was here < 1239017580 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: also good one < 1239017585 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what < 1239017591 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, far-fetched infinite time jokes < 1239017610 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't trying to joke there. < 1239017619 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know, wasn't really funny either < 1239017628 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like confusing you for seconds at a time < 1239017637 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, stop being ehird.. < 1239017646 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he isn't here < 1239017651 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing < 1239017654 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't really see fizzie being him < 1239017658 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1239017664 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1239017665 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for that! < 1239017666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I don't really have the ehird nature in me. < 1239017680 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oToToTo < 1239017702 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ↑ < 1239017704 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :← → < 1239017708 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ↓ < 1239017717 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1239017729 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't look right. < 1239017771 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be a monospace font, why are ↓ and ↑ not properly around the hole < 1239017774 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking. < 1239017794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks right enough here. < 1239017822 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1239017843 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i wonder if i could manage the real-time systems exam in an hour < 1239017863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑, ↑, ↓, ↓, ←, →, ←, →, A, B, select, start. < 1239017868 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i could, then i could fit algebra and it on the same day and get another exam to fit later! < 1239017879 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the old banjo punch < 1239017893 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this should be a monospace font, why are ↓ and ↑ not properly around the hole <-- looks ok here < 1239017913 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm weird. < 1239017914 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ↑, ↑, ↓, ↓, ←, →, ←, →, A, B, select, start. <-- huh < 1239017925 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that about < 1239017935 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a special move in a game. < 1239017940 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which game < 1239017946 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the Konami code, works for a lot of games IIRC# < 1239017952 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banjo fighters < 1239017957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a reasonably common cheat code in NES games. < 1239017968 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh console game < 1239017977 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what strange variant of chess this was about :D < 1239017980 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is of course a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Konami_code_games < 1239018035 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/06/0234245&from=rss quality slashdot editing, as usual. < 1239018053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird stuff. digg.com (website) - Press up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A to expand all comment threads on an article's overview page. < 1239018054 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the guy rips of a few hairs from the opponent, and uses them as strings for the banjo, you know for the voodoo doll effect, then punches the banjo with all his fists; it's called the banjo punch < 1239018075 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drains most hp, a bit of mana, and hurts the opponents feelings < 1239018079 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1239018086 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work? < 1239018113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: No idea, it was just there on the list. < 1239018124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: This is some sort of imaginary game thing, right? < 1239018145 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :banjo fighters is as real as you and me < 1239018167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might not be very real. < 1239018180 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not, might unnot. < 1239018182 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oklopol_ answered a different question < 1239018199 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, maybe there is a game called that, but does that move exist in it < 1239018202 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might've, might'n've < 1239018239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not seeing any threading in digg.com anyway. Maybe it's a setting. There's an "expand all" link, so it's not a very hidden functionality even if it exists. < 1239018250 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it works in Half-Life 2‽ < 1239018331 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in gish? < 1239018344 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm err turbo mode < 1239018358 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've probably unlocked it anyway if it's possible, sounds familiar < 1239018371 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, add citation needed then :D < 1239018404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already a "This article does not cite any references or sources." on top. < 1239018419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put there in March 2008. < 1239018462 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1239018486 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could underline it tho < 1239018541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put a big red rectangle around it, and tags too. < 1239018730 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1239019843 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239024268 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239024399 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1239025324 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239026978 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, it does work < 1239027039 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lifthrasiir.jottit.com/xumul the XUMUL spec seems to be finalized. i added more examples but making 99 bottles of beer should be quite hard. < 1239027285 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239031346 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-075-254.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1239031469 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom, what works? < 1239031483 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the konami code on digg < 1239031490 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239031677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of fractional blocks there, you can almost make a volume control label thingie: − ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ + < 1239031709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've forgotten what they're called, but ehird made a program that made little inline unicode graphs that you could put into IRC comments < 1239031833 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION totally rewrote most of his y implementation < 1239031862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Y did you do that?" eh eh eh-heh. < 1239031885 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles define:Y < 1239031949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the y/why thing. < 1239032028 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239032039 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it was suboptimal before < 1239032112 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't reuse result of time() call between date and time for example, this was because of the way it was implemented to handle pushing individual parts without doing the "push all, pop some" thing. < 1239032119 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it manages both cases fine < 1239032126 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need some more testing < 1239032132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly think Y performance really matters in most "real" Funge-98 programs... but I could be wrong; I don't really have much experience on how Funge-98 is used in the real-life software industry. < 1239032141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to go work → home at this point; away. < 1239032143 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it does in mycology < 1239032164 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does fungot use y much? < 1239032165 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: ' yes, it's all right. i accept it as fnord? is it particular or universal? < 1239032170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a real program, though. It's a test suite, and not even a performance benchmark at that. < 1239032174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be no y in fungot. < 1239032175 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sylvie, who hadn't quite lost her surprised look, put up her mouth for a great effort, and swallowed a large piece of plaster fnord on her lap, " fnord taxes!'" < 1239032179 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1239032180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the bus. → < 1239032184 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239032192 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you come on irc when you get home < 1239032192 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1239032257 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, in mycology y is the bottleneck for cfunge. To be specific all the string pushing when pushing the environment variables is < 1239032270 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack-stack copy is way faster < 1239032283 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea here < 1239032285 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1239032291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239032319 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to cache a pre-pushed array of the environment variables and then just memcpy() it onto the stack < 1239032323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: do you optimise y with a positive argument? < 1239032337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if someone asks for something that isn't the env vars, do you give it to them without checking the env vars? < 1239032339 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do as far as I can know for certain what number to go for < 1239032345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1239032362 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so past size of all stacks I don't do that < 1239032389 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but up to (and including) the size of TOSS I have a switch case < 1239032404 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do now, in trunk it only does that up until 10 < 1239032417 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now that I reworked y code it goes further < 1239032559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you add an option to cfunge to clear the environment before running the program? < 1239032580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for programs that didn't care about env vars, it wouldn't change their behaviour at all, for programs that did it would still be "correct", just faster < 1239032616 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if I want to measure other parts of the code in a meaningful way I tend to do: env -i bash --noprofile --norc -c 'time ./cfunge ../../trunk/mycology/mycology.b98 >/dev/null' < 1239032644 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I still use gprof and such too of course) < 1239032646 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239032652 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my konsole just lost it's menu bar < 1239032653 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1239032688 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there back < 1239032735 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1239033124 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1239033166 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungus (a rather incomplete and somewhat broken test suite for funge interpreters, made by !Befunge author) told me: Stack cell size is 31 bits < 1239033168 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239033199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great way in which to be somewhat broken < 1239033213 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is broken in other ways too < 1239033230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed < 1239033451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239033546 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now time to try to figure out that bug with slowdown.b98... < 1239033603 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239033716 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you finished your master thesis or what was the thing you were talking about? < 1239033722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1239033733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At home, but have to do dinnur now. Anyway, I certainly am not critisizising your Mycology optimization tricks, just amused by them. < 1239033734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now on wind-down time < 1239033736 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1239033744 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239033749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deadline was 12pm today, but I submitted it at about 9am < 1239033763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it helps to be a few hours early in case they've invented a last-minute requirement for how to submit it < 1239033773 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I really wanted to optimise I would change flags cell in a way so it pushed some number that caused it to not push the whole thing every other time < 1239033777 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why you may wonder... < 1239033782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they had, but it was just to write my name on the front, that only took a couple of minutes because I was trying to make it look neat) < 1239033799 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because mycology does: < 1239033802 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ky < 1239033804 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1239033808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what about a lazy stack? < 1239033808 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when wanting a delay for HRTI < 1239033824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just push a token meaning "environment variables go here" < 1239033832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only push them if the value of the token matters < 1239033845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, a fully lazy funge interp could be interesting < 1239033852 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm it need to track length of the stack anyway < 1239033866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think it would violate the Funge standards, as long as it had strict I/O < 1239033870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: only if something asked for it < 1239033874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could delazify if something did < 1239033879 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have a similar plan for pyfungec < 1239033888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 out of the registered ~50 AI tournament participants have returned their bots; deadline is today at midnight. Probably most of them will return it during the last hour. < 1239033900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should do a master's thesis too this Spring. Heh. < 1239033903 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or semi-JIT pyfunge, anyway) < 1239033910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was wondering what the name meant < 1239033914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's that about? < 1239033938 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway: ky causes y to jump to whatever matches the value in the flags cell every other time, because flag cell is 15, with will be on top first time, then next y will use it for parameter, 15 maps to pushing x or y component of storage offset (forgot which). which is 0 at that point, which causes next to push full list, and so on < 1239033943 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it toggles between the two < 1239033974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1239033976 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if I really wanted to optimise for mycology I would change the flag cells in some way so it ended up pushing small positive values every time after the initial 0 < 1239033980 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239033980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're specifically going to optimise "ky"? < 1239033985 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1239033990 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would be insane < 1239034005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1239034006 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, for example ay does calculate and push only one cell? < 1239034006 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I found this out while I was checking what y values were common < 1239034013 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i think that's fine < 1239034024 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and was wondering why mycology wanted storage offset so many times < 1239034047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't like the idea of optimising for Mycology, but optimising variants involving k could be profitable < 1239034053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, ffff***k> < 1239034060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be optimised really easily < 1239034065 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I try to optimise for fungot too, but it is harder to measure < 1239034066 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: we were silent for awhile, and then fnord that the conclusion, if there is to be one of them. < 1239034066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into ffff***>> < 1239034074 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can't profile it easily < 1239034079 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of irc dependency < 1239034084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: why not make a generic compiler that's optimised even for programs that haven't been written yet? < 1239034087 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while mycology runs as fast as it can all the time < 1239034089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The tournament or the thesis? < 1239034106 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I try to, some stuff I optimised extra doesn't help for mycology < 1239034110 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like N in STRN < 1239034113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant the tournament < 1239034115 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc fungot uses quite a bit < 1239034116 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: " well, what's the matter, darling?" said bruno. < 1239034118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thesis is likely to be interesting too < 1239034144 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? the thesis isn't done? < 1239034154 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm confused < 1239034157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: It still has a topic, though. < 1239034160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:27 fizzie: Quite a lot of fractional blocks there, you can almost make a volume control label thingie: − ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█ + < 1239034161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:28 ais523: I've forgotten what they're called, but ehird made a program that made little inline unicode graphs that you could put into IRC comments < 1239034166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1239034170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode sparklines < 1239034171 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster_ipv6: It still has a topic, though. <-- ? < 1239034172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: my thesis is done, presumably fizzie's isn't though < 1239034175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The tournament is the programming project part of our "Introduction to Artificial Intelligence" course; the task is to write a board-game AI in the framework provided by the course. < 1239034176 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1239034178 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1239034183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's only one thesis < 1239034184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE thesis < 1239034218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I mentioned scala is nice < 1239034228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And then the returned game-playing bots are playeded against each other, and the top-N winners get magnificient prizes; so that the students get motivated enough, that is. < 1239034251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did something like that in our second year, but with line-following racing bots rather than AIs < 1239034294 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for lazy stack, do you think it would save much? compared to the overhead of tracking "is this lazy" < 1239034306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1239034312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profiling it might help < 1239034321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you check for beyond-bottom-of-stack, atm? < 1239034322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE I MENTIONED SCALA IS QUITE A GOOD LANGUAGE < 1239034328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had an insane idea < 1239034329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The board game is something developed by a Finnish master-of-chess person, and it's a relatively unknown so that they can't just filch a chess UI from some open-source thing. < 1239034352 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I don't catch segfaults like fizzie do, but rather check if stack->top == 0 < 1239034378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: the idea to do laziness would be to put a fake top-of-stack on the stack < 1239034383 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since stack->top is just a index into the malloced block used for stack < 1239034397 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239034399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd check stack->top == top_or_top_lazy_index_number < 1239034405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that check's just as fast as what you have at the moment < 1239034408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the unicode blox were thinner < 1239034426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do unlazify, or go over the end of the stack, you'll have an efficiency cost then changing your internal setup < 1239034430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't happen very often < 1239034431 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes quite possible, but it does require storing extra out-of-band data < 1239034455 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, currently I speed stuff up by doing crazy stuff like { and } memcpy()ing between TOSS and SOSS and such < 1239034460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/06/0234245&from=rss ← oh god < 1239034466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get me o ut of this fucknig country < 1239034475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1239034477 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is another thing that doesn't matter for mycology btw < 1239034477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a fake thing < 1239034478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1239034482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I just read the summariry < 1239034565 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's real < 1239034579 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I suspect it is real too < 1239034588 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is talk about such things here in Sweden as well < 1239034592 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239034597 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just email subjects, so I don't see how it's going to stop terrorism < 1239034636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently in Germany they're just recording what IP people had at a given time they were online < 1239034643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an attempt to comply with that < 1239034665 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway a lot of my optimised stack code does assume stack is stored as a single array, so it would need to be reworked for such a lazy stack < 1239034675 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to know more about this stack certainly < 1239034679 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy stack < 1239034705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:12 AnMaster_ipv6: ais523, well I don't catch segfaults like fizzie do, but rather check if stack->top == 0 < 1239034709 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know enough about stuff in this area < 1239034714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should really do segfault checking < 1239034721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not portable < 1239034721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd remove like 5 billion branches < 1239034725 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239034733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239034736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a portable lib to do it < 1239034742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that even works on DOS? < 1239034751 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that's not relevant for cfunge < 1239034751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cfunge doesn't work on dos < 1239034758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, it should do < 1239034762 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs to work on OpenBSD/sparc though < 1239034763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should try porting it some time < 1239034765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never will, ais523. < 1239034769 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239034773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: I think the lib does < 1239034774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it < 1239034786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1239034787 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah name or url would be a good start < 1239034790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep getting StackOverflow.com results < 1239034792 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1239034839 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would this lazy stack work, I mean "stack->top == top_or_top_lazy_index_number" for example, do you mean a special value on the top of the stack and stack->top being a pointer? < 1239034850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239034865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you have out-of-band data that stores where the lazy entries are < 1239034876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a variable whose value is the top lazy entry on the stack < 1239034879 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then? I admit I'm totally ignorant about how you work with lazy data structures < 1239034881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the bottom of the stack if there aren't any < 1239034885 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239034892 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239034917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an attempt is made to use that value, you then figure out what special value was requested, unlazify if needed, and set the index number according to the new circumstances < 1239034937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Details of every email sent and website visited by people in Britain are to be stored for use by the state from tomorrow as part of what campaigners claim is a massive assault on privacy. " < 1239034937 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1239034942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck "what campaigners claim" < 1239034954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way you can claim that's not a complete destruction of privacy < 1239035001 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would have a separate array or linked list or something containing a list with info about all lazy parts of the stack, and then update the "first lazy" when I remove/expand part of the stack? < 1239035005 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you meant < 1239035005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A library for that stack-overflow-trickery sounds, well, tricky. I cheat a bit in that I know what memory-access instructions can cause a stack underflow, so when handling it, there's only a rather reasonable amount of situations I need to fake the "whoops, returned 0" thing in. < 1239035005 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239035019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, there really is a portable c library to detect segfault < 1239035023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that work son most unix systems iirc < 1239035035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my point was, that how are you going to guarantee that underflow causes a segfault? < 1239035038 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would this interact with stuff like stack size in y, FRTH pick, y as pick with large enough value and so on? < 1239035048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by aligning it < 1239035050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: itt: mmap < 1239035075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "itt"? I always assumed it meand "in the topic", but in this context it can't do < 1239035084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In This Topic < 1239035094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commonly used as a subject line, e.g. < 1239035100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ITT we are Bill Gates" < 1239035110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, on the subject of mmap: "ITT mmap" < 1239035124 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239035139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, sure, I just said it sounds tricky. Well, maybe not the "detect segfault" bit, more the "fake that it worked and restore execution" bit. < 1239035143 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well doing that is a pain when you need to grow stack < 1239035162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do the forced segfault with a mmap'd range and mprotect()ing the pages before and after it. < 1239035166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must do food-preparing now, not here. < 1239035173 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is even more of a pain when you consider that there is the stack stack with many stacks, each which may need to grow, and multiple ips too < 1239035183 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each with it's own stack-stack < 1239035203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's to stop the OS memmapping two things in adjacent pages? < 1239035208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you underflow from one onto the previous? < 1239035230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you mprotect. < 1239035230 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, he said he mmap()s one and then mprotects it as no-access < 1239035245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239035254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you're on a processor that doesn't have memory protection? < 1239035260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be. < 1239035264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does POSIX guarantee that mprotect is implementable? < 1239035280 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does say no access must work yes < 1239035286 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other < 1239035296 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does allow implementations to allow execution even if it is only readable < 1239035302 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so systems without NX works < 1239035341 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : POSIX.1-2001 says that an implementation may permit access other than that specified in prot, but at a minimum can only allow write access if < 1239035341 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PROT_WRITE has been set, and must not allow any access if PROT_NONE has been set. < 1239035354 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man page < 1239035382 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux mprotect() works on non-mmaped pages too it says heh < 1239035386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mprotect the first and last page of the longer, contiguous stack I've mmap()d, so it'd be a rather rude OS if it were to mess that up. < 1239035401 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much do you allocate < 1239035452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't remember; I was going to make it grow up as necessary, but I don't think that's even implemented yet. It's some fixed reasonable number of pages now. < 1239035459 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The food, it is burning. Gah. < 1239035465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop talking interesting stuff. < 1239035624 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at end of mycology the stack in a 32-bit fungespace build of cfunge is 12 pages (4096 bytes on x86) large < 1239035628 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked < 1239035644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gay sex. < 1239035645 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I grow the stack I grow with one page at a time btw < 1239035650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now call for psygnisfive < 1239035655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we'll go back into uninterestingness < 1239035696 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me handle this < 1239035703 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOH I SURE FEEL GAY TODAY < 1239035710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEE Slereah_! < 1239035712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU GAY? < 1239035716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEVER KNEW! < 1239035727 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, I'm trying to lure psygnisfive < 1239035739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit I forgot to change nick < 1239035742 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239035745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnsifive < 1239035751 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we get back to order? < 1239035751 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M HERE Slereah_ < 1239035756 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1239035757 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: fizzie's request. < 1239035758 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1239035764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239035769 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, he said " Stop talking interesting stuff." < 1239035776 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which we did. < 1239035777 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "start talking uninteresting stuff" < 1239035782 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never fails. < 1239035785 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have shut up? < 1239035786 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1239035787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why do you think I wasn't talking < 1239035789 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting stuff carries on if uninteresting stuff doesn't. < 1239035792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk to fungot for a while < 1239035793 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fnord. all blades are fnord some ignorant people are conceited. < 1239035794 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well where were we < 1239035802 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, on the topic of being sexually aligned to the same gender. < 1239035815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnsifive: take it to -offtopic, please < 1239035823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, -blah < 1239035829 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -blah is for bot tests. < 1239035834 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is on topic in here :-P < 1239035835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spamming < 1239035837 0 :psygnsifive!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1239035889 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway there are some stuff that would be hard to do with a lazy stack. the FRTH fingerprint that allows pick and such < 1239035911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: how do you implement pick past the end of the stack? < 1239035933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JARS < 1239035935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MANY JARS. < 1239035936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1239035938 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm since FRTH is a RCS fingerprint... < 1239035941 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lookjs < 1239035943 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks* < 1239035944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookjs < 1239035952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VISION IN WEB 2.0 AJAXSCRIPT < 1239035964 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1239036022 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it gets index counting from stack base it seems in the relevant code for that in stack.c and there it returns 0 for out of range < 1239036027 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in FRTH < 1239036061 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is from top of stack < 1239036065 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and translate to "from base" < 1239036089 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it reflects for negative arguments (above top of stack) and pushes 0 for below base of stack < 1239036106 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did that answer the question? < 1239036108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: my general advice is whatever you do to handle below base of stack, handle lazy elements the same way < 1239036113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it answers it < 1239036129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, this method is hideously complicated, /but/ it doesn't have an efficiency penalty < 1239036175 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I need to handle <1:non-lazy><2:lazy><3:non-lazy> and FRTH wanting to pick in the lower non-lazy area (1) < 1239036188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expand the lazy when that happens < 1239036189 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I need to know size of stack all the time, because y need to be able to return it < 1239036198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about anyway < 1239036203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, you expand the lazy if someone calls y in such a way it's asking for the stack size < 1239036207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lazy y in Befunge < 1239036213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1239036215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds boring. < 1239036223 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that is most of the time when it would be useful to be lazy it also has stack size < 1239036225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, it wouldn't violate any of the standards or change any behaviour < 1239036227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be faster < 1239036244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it makes sense so why are you talking so much < 1239036250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can AnMaster_ipv6 not fit his brain around it? lol < 1239036253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what about lazy-chaining? < 1239036277 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean that until it tries to compute on the returned stack size it won't calculate it < 1239036281 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm might work < 1239036290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you remember the size of the nonlazy parts of the stack in the lazy token < 1239036297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just add the lazy parts if it becomes relevant < 1239036303 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1239036338 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, potentially you could also do lazy calculations on these areas I guess < 1239036342 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if someone add them up < 1239036371 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this sounds like it would be way easier in some other language than C, haskell for example < 1239036373 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm < 1239036384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1239036385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: you may as well have a fully lazy funge if you're going that far < 1239036386 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be worth trying, but it would be a lot of work < 1239036387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds trivial < 1239036389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the max < 1239036403 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm interesting idea yeah < 1239036405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only intended the simpler versions of laziness < 1239036406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on y just push a dummy data structure with NULL fields < 1239036412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you access them, set the fields to the value < 1239036420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Funge doesn't have data structures < 1239036421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so easy it's not even funny < 1239036427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know what i mean < 1239036435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the stack segment as a data structure < 1239036439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doing it without an efficiency loss when it isn't used is slightly harder, but only slightly < 1239036453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is AnMaster_ipv6 talking about it so much < 1239036463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corner cases, as usual < 1239036472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1239036476 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I'm thinking about it < 1239036481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all fixable, you just have to deal with them all individually < 1239036483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll corner AnMaster_ipv6's cases if he keeps doing this kind of thing < 1239036523 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would be worthless if it made it fail in mycology, and these are hardly corner cases < 1239036537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology checks corner cases < 1239036540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole point < 1239036542 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, maybe storing the size of the lazy stuff (if known) could be useful. < 1239036543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: I'm not talking about anything that makes it fail < 1239036557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what I'm saying is, if the size matters, just delazify < 1239036562 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean for env variables I could easily store it non-lazy first time and track how much is used for example < 1239036566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from then on you can memoize what the size of the env vars is < 1239036574 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or that yes < 1239036582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until they change, and how often does that happen? < 1239036595 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well since I don't implement EVAR: never < 1239036617 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if I did I guess I wouldn't need to invalidate it often < 1239036625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1239036681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: *nEVAR < 1239036697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/#color-box <--- I just found this, and Mathematica really really badly needs it < 1239036699 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fizzie already did (4"EVAR" before... < 1239036699 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already made one joke with evar, but he just wouldn't get it < 1239036701 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s OLD < 1239036703 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so* < 1239036708 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i did < 1239036710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking about it then < 1239036717 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie just tried to explain it to you < 1239036719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't work well in practice. < 1239036731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: neither does Mathematica's current method, that would be an improvement < 1239036740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1239036744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking bout the same thing < 1239036752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quite possibly not < 1239036759 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would be the best format to store out of band data for lazy parts of stack hm... < 1239036761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talkin bout < 1239036768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the link I pasted above, http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/#color-box < 1239036774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239036781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does mathematica currently do < 1239036797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: breaks the line in random places for no apparent reason, and flashes parens when you cursor over them < 1239036803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1239036807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like mathematica autoformatting < 1239036807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1239036823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think its autoformatting makes it impossible to see what the code's doing < 1239036829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239036830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because two related things can be so far from each other < 1239036831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1239036836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have no way to match them < 1239036843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your code is not factored enough < 1239036855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have you seen the code that Wolfram themselves churn out? < 1239036858 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway technically checking a non-constant value would in fact be slower ;P, just unmeasurable I suspect. An extra memory load from an address close by instead of using a constant "branch if zero" instruction sequence. But most likely wouldn't even be a measurable difference. < 1239036864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lots and lots of nested standard functions < 1239036866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1239036868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? :P < 1239036870 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1239036878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't see which options or args go with which functions < 1239036885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are so many other things in between < 1239036902 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/#color-box <-- wow < 1239036902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: if it's in L1 cache, and it almost certainly will be, no slower on x86 < 1239036919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wow*? < 1239036920 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. < 1239036921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1239036928 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what a nice idea with colour boxes < 1239036931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I'd keep the parens too < 1239036935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice if you could actually use them < 1239036939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, it's useless < 1239036940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: err, ? < 1239036947 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would it be useless? < 1239036948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're unusable < 1239036958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1239036971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that they don't help coding, they hinder < 1239036973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it slow? does it break badly when you try to add another paren pair? < 1239036982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in implementation < 1239036983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in idea < 1239036989 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very useful < 1239036992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same information that's there already, just with more information < 1239037002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, it's mostly for reading the code you've written < 1239037006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just because you can doesn't mean you should < 1239037010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't helpful in practice < 1239037011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for writing it, anyone can do that by writing from outside to inside < 1239037032 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you tested it? < 1239037037 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how do you know? < 1239037046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, it's a downloadable .el file < 1239037050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you think I know oklopol_ < 1239037065 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i assume you're just talking crap < 1239037076 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there another possibility? < 1239037077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your loss < 1239037116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was going to test it on some Mathematica code from the Wolfram demonstrations thing < 1239037135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the "show source" link gives you an image of the source, which is ridiculous < 1239037149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/mwe-color-box.el < 1239037152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't. < 1239037158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1239037158 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1239037159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a link to download the notebook too < 1239037161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean wolfram < 1239037164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239037172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wolfram code is rich text < 1239037172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not too surprised < 1239037173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1239037175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wolfram/mathematica/ < 1239037187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be represented entirely in text form < 1239037190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what InputForm is < 1239037191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239037193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't < 1239037194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1239037223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's very very interesting that the source code they provide for their demonstrations isn't using the auto-indented version < 1239037230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but has been indented into a lot more lines by hand to show the structure < 1239037243 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239037250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the paste-places did that color-box-alike stuff for Scheme. < 1239037250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they couldn't work with their bracket-matching either < 1239037251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't fully automate formatting... < 1239037259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: of course not < 1239037263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lisppaste, and it does it in an even more stupid way < 1239037269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, most languages have code that's at least slightly readable without it < 1239037273 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: python can do it! < 1239037278 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1239037281 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely can't. < 1239037282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that colour-box thing would help for reading INTERCAL expressions too < 1239037299 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lisp.paste.org? < 1239037302 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1239037306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: paste.lisp.org < 1239037310 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1239037313 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1239037313 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed < 1239037320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does it in a way that makes it even more useless than colour boxes < 1239037327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a veritable pastel explosion < 1239037332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically < 1239037335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only highlights the parens < 1239037339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you hover over the body < 1239037340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not the body < 1239037341 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but pretty sure it doesn't use colour boxes, rather matching colours for parentheses < 1239037357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said it wasn't identical < 1239037363 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239037364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lemonodor.com/images/lisppaste-sexpr-highlighting.jpg < 1239037374 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very different in fact < 1239037383 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say more like totally different idea < 1239037386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's highlighting sexps with a background < 1239037390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty fucking niche already < 1239037393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not segregating further < 1239037401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might've been that I'm remembering, anyway. < 1239037459 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-98.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1239037498 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, why can't I set a watch point *with a condition* in gdb < 1239037513 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if variable goes to a value larger than 2000 or so < 1239037523 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I don't even know where in program it would do < 1239037718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAH! C++ style << overloading < 1239037718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RUN! < 1239037729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in Scala? < 1239037739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's more the general idea < 1239037742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case it was in scala < 1239037745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SystemC is worse, it's based on C++ and also overloads << but for something entirely different and also unrelated to bitshifts < 1239037747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but scala doesn't have "operators" < 1239037752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a b c) is a.b(c) < 1239037771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to I/O, fwiw < 1239037776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: I think it should work. "watch var" followed by "condition bnum expression", where bnum is the watchpoint number. < 1239037792 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1239037804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should make the conditionized watchpoint only stop when the expression given to "condition" is true. < 1239037831 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239037836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be also syntactic sugar for writing that as "watch var if var > 2000" or some-such. < 1239037854 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239037856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to stackoverflow for amusement value < 1239037862 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd that help watch doesn't list it < 1239037866 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since help break does < 1239037898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"5.1.6 Break Conditions" manual section does. < 1239037921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "help watch" output is rather terse. < 1239038002 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1239038797 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh doesn't work < 1239038804 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks every time instead < 1239039123 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hard codes random seed in for now to be able to debug this... < 1239039146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange. It does not work here either, although according to the manual it really should. < 1239039201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do "watch var>2000", though; that at least works here. < 1239039215 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I need both directions < 1239039231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both directions? < 1239039238 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greater than 2000 or less than -2000 < 1239039266 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gdb has a limit on number of supported watch points, depending on how much the hardware supports < 1239039276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch "var < -2000 || var > 2000" then? < 1239039283 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already need more than gdb handles < 1239039287 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I found another way to do it < 1239039326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, you just need one expression that will toggle from 0 to 1 when something interesting happens. Of course it'll also break when it goes back to 0, but I don't think that's usually a problem. < 1239039415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would think that "watch var < -2000 || var > 2000" would actually be better than "watch var if var < -2000 || var > 2000" since that last one would break on all changes of var where the condition is true, not just when the condition initially becomes true. Well, if the "... if foo" syntax would work at all, that is. < 1239039446 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1239039471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm no gdb-wizard, and if you have alternative ways of debugging that actually work you might as well use those. < 1239040298 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense at all < 1239040334 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of memory corruption not detectable by either valgrind or mudflap is about the only possibility left < 1239040350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what's the problem? < 1239040364 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=25 y=37: p (112) < 1239040364 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stack has 99 elements, top 5 (or less) elements: < 1239040364 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -5 -5 32 463152454 -584432533 < 1239040365 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x=584432744 y=37: (32) < 1239040365 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Stack has 96 elements, top 5 (or less) elements: < 1239040365 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 463152454 -584432533 32 463152454 -584432534 < 1239040372 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :delta not flying < 1239040378 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow p must have an issue < 1239040382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what's the fungespace in between? < 1239040390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, (32) < 1239040398 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dumped it and and next instruction should not be that far out < 1239040411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it got blanked somehow < 1239040417 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>' 03-:g04-:g 05-:g1+05-:p 03-:g01-:g- 01-:g2+02-:g3+g-!#v_^ < 1239040419 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the line < 1239040421 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just dumped it < 1239040427 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I checked that < 1239040465 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, delta is {x = 1, y = 0} all the time hm < 1239040483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did p pop the stack correctly, by the way? < 1239040511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks very sensible; 99 -> 96 and the 3 topmost have vanished. < 1239040511 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, going to debug this, just added a temp tick variable I can break on... < 1239040526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the problem seems to be corruption of x < 1239040544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it correctly writing the cell at (-5, -5), by the way? < 1239040557 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure yet... < 1239040573 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: watch fungetick == 5042 < 1239040631 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm storageOffset = {x = 584432564, y = -463152454} < 1239040639 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is that normal in slowdown.b98? < 1239040660 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the code pushing coords to overwrite later < 1239040692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: if only you had implemented TRDS, you could go back to when it went wrong and try again < 1239040693 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Value returned is $3 = {x = -5, y = -5} < 1239040697 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep it pops correctly < 1239040721 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can because I temporarily hard coded the random seed to srandom() :P < 1239040730 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TRDS wouldn't help here < 1239040731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: is it trying to access element [-5][-5] of the static array, I wonder? < 1239040749 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it shouldn't be, I'm single stepping atm... < 1239040758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's far too far outside for mudflap to notice, and if it hits valid memory valgrind-memcheck wouldn't notice either < 1239040776 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but ptrcheck didn't either hm < 1239040866 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway after storage offset was added it turned into: < 1239040867 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$12 = {x = 584432559, y = -463152459} < 1239040869 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correctly < 1239040875 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since storage offset was that large yes < 1239040894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happening to your IP's x? < 1239040919 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have it up with display *IP all the time < 1239040941 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway program now decided that it should use hash library (correctly) < 1239041054 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hash library found matching key hm < 1239041372 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, p didn't mess it up at least < 1239041379 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now in ip move forward code... hm < 1239041430 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I see what broke I think... < 1239041456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it? < 1239041482 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with bounds minimizing code < 1239041602 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no bad write issue, but rather something related to the algorithm making the bounds incorrect... < 1239041891 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok changing a + to a - solved that part of the issue. but hm < 1239041903 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1239041904 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239041927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1239041937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bounds went crazy, and it was wrapping to that ridiculous point < 1239041939 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was miscalculating the bounds simply < 1239041940 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239041952 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for some reason they ended up correct later < 1239042306 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, now cfunge works correctly in all parts of slowdown.b98 < 1239042326 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is not too slow. < 1239042369 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for ridiculous point, that part was correct in fact, it was the max point in that direction. < 1239042391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1239042403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still ridiculous, just because it's correct doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous < 1239042410 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowdown is ridiculous yes < 1239042416 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowdown.b98 I mean < 1239042829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala weirdness: it has xml literals. < 1239042853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scala> var a = {2+2} < 1239042853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a: scala.xml.Elem = 4 < 1239042859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why it has them but there you go. < 1239042898 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239042924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: VB.NET is the only other language I know with XML literals < 1239042938 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm on my computer the two switches -fgcse-sm -fgcse-las (in combination) help a lot, comparing to plain -O3 when compiling cfunge, it seems to differ between different computers though, on a pentium3 I tested with it slowed down slightly instead < 1239042943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, Scala's quite superior to VB.NET :-P < 1239042952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea whether it's a useful feature or not, I can't think of an obvious use right now but presumably there is one < 1239042964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe representing parse trees directly in the source code? < 1239042964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala even has lisp-style syntax for symbols < 1239042964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'foo < 1239042971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although that's not a generic quoting mechanism) < 1239042980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Templating < 1239042990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use haskell style syntax: < 1239042995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like inside-out PHP? < 1239043000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page name =

Hello, {name}!

< 1239043001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1239043007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most template languages are like php < 1239043020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, also, xml processing, I assume < 1239043033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can just copy it in and work with it < 1239043298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does a Google search for 0x5f3759df < 1239043326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 googles so rarely that he tells us every time < 1239043334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, iirc they just made it up < 1239043350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's they, and what did they just make up < 1239043370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0x5f3759df? From InvSqrt? < 1239043376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239043378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where else? < 1239043382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1239043390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, John Carmack just made up the magic number. < 1239043394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that being the backstory. < 1239043417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't care about the backstory, but about the algorithm < 1239043431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/8/ < 1239043440 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you remembered that number or looked it up somewhere? < 1239043443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a disappointment really, I was hoping they'd used some weird feature of the implementation of floats to run the entire loop in one machine instruction < 1239043446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1239043447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not me, and I don't think it is Michael. Terje Matheson perhaps? < 1239043447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Carmack < 1239043448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: came across it < 1239043452 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239043470 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah eight hex digits how could anyone remember that < 1239043471 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that magic number is really magic, since it is not optimal theoretically but is optimal in the practice < 1239043472 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would be scared if you had memorized it... < 1239043479 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like remembering a whole name. < 1239043480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: why < 1239043484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a few telephone numbers < 1239043490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're longer < 1239043491 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, of course you could if you wanted. But it would be so strange to memorise that one < 1239043495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1239043498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's programmer lore < 1239043503 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1239043514 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember all telephone numbers i use < 1239043516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i only remember our landline number < 1239043522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because it's quite mnemonic < 1239043529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh one four three four six oh eight nine five three < 1239043530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bitshifting floats is evil and ridiculous < 1239043530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239043534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's only mnemonic to me < 1239043542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that guessing code isn't running Newton, but it is using some algorithm to get very close < 1239043546 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now I know your telephone number < 1239043547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "four three four" < 1239043549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so mnemonic < 1239043550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: yes you do. < 1239043559 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239043567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently someone did a computer search and found it was suboptimal, but not by much < 1239043567 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my family's telephone numbers are anagrams of each other. they are actually hard to remember :p < 1239043572 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I do remember a few phone numbers, not many though < 1239043580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: if you want more phone numbers, we brits have a nice thick phone book. < 1239043605 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: have you actually looked at that hex number? it's a bit hard not to remember < 1239043614 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has a very distinct structure < 1239043618 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but it would be much easier to trace down what specific Elliot Hird with that. < 1239043631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: no, you couldn't trace an Elliot Hird with it < 1239043671 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well your family I guess, unless it is secret? At least here in Sweden the info about who owns a specific telephone number is public < 1239043681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my name is not Elliot Hird < 1239043681 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it isn't like that in UK < 1239043685 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239043697 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sorry I missed one t < 1239043702 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offence meant < 1239043712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you join 5,000 others in missing a t < 1239043724 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I typo lots of other words too so :/ < 1239043728 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also know where ehird lives < 1239043729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Have you considered showing your support for the Movement and legally changing your surname to Hurd? < 1239043738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ITYM GNU/HURD < 1239043742 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, UK, nothing more specific < 1239043749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: my full address is on the interweb < 1239043750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if they allow a slash in name. < 1239043760 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my point exactly < 1239043768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: 4 orchard terrace, hexham, northumberland < 1239043782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pedophiles: please don't come and be a pedophile. < 1239043787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very pedophile. < 1239043807 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-63.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1239043808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the algorithm's just approximating the value by using the exponent field in the float < 1239043811 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you children. < 1239043822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of clearing the mantissa, it's leaving junk there for faster calculation < 1239043844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number is presumably chosen to help optimise the chance that the mantissa junk is useful < 1239043869 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep think so < 1239043870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham sounds like an awesome name. Something sort of combination of witch-style cursery and ham. < 1239043896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: exactly < 1239043898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was surprised that I'd heard of Hexham before he told me < 1239043902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are the land of accursed ham < 1239043903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a relatively famous place < 1239043909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as famous as Birmingham, though < 1239043917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well all we have is a shitty abbey and a market < 1239043919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty boring < 1239044072 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you! < 1239044077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were planning an UK trip that might generally speaking involve that region of the country, although it's not yet clear whether it would be this August or sometime next Spring. < 1239044095 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey then maybe you can have tea with ehird! < 1239044105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds a bit too bizarroid. < 1239044116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: i don't much like tea < 1239044117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1239044125 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yeah right < 1239044135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yeah, i think that would cause like, world ending things < 1239044498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'll like, put a postcard on a bench for you < 1239044501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: it sucks up here < 1239044511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weather's bad and the places are boring, why do you want to come < 1239044519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay in finland finland is awesome < 1239044565 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Hexham Close near me, so I'd heard the word. < 1239044570 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone heard of Baxenden? :) < 1239044577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't < 1239044604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... a #esoteric meetup would be pretty awesome, in a sense < 1239044613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239044618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also crazy < 1239044623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people are so different in RL to IRC, I find < 1239044634 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the source of Holland's Pies (by which I don't mean dutch pies) < 1239044634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least as far as the weather goes, I'm not sure how "awesome" it is here. It's one thing if we'd actually have a *real* winter, but here at the southern end it's so bleh. < 1239044640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm incredibly shy IRL. < 1239044674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dude, you just don't know. finland >>>> uk, ok. < 1239044709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... someone calculated the corresponding constant for doubles, it's 0x5FE6EB50C7B537AA < 1239044724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x5fe6eb50c7b537aa < 1239044727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uppercase is for weenies < 1239044774 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x5fE6Eb50C7b537aA < 1239044784 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case-sensitivity is for doofi < 1239044791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly gets a ridiculous vision < 1239044795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CamelCase hex, for grouping < 1239044801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bc's "ibase=16" hex input accepts only uppercase, which is the suck. (It interprets /^[a-f]/ as variables, and other lowercase-containing stuff is a syntax error.) < 1239044802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xA4b5Cdef < 1239044870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe you could use the subscript numbers to make the groupings more readable. 0xA₄b₅Cdef. Although those are a bit *too* small. < 1239044970 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xA④b⑤Cdef? < 1239045033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for decimal numbers, then. 1,234,567.00 → ₁2₃₄5₆₇.₀₀ < 1239045060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, this is almost turning into a good idea < 1239045065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll be a rubbish good idea < 1239045101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the circled numbers go up to ⑳, not just 0-9. < 1239045112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I saw that as a square < 1239045126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's CIRCLED NUMBER TWENTY. < 1239045130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: write your password with Unicode characters that don't exist in any font < 1239045147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, you can actually do the hunter2 thing, just with squares not asterisks < 1239045179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:11 ais523: oh dear, this is almost turning into a good idea < 1239045179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:11 ais523: and it'll be a rubbish good idea < 1239045182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :favourite quote < 1239045184 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239045194 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it isn't circled for me < 1239045195 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239045208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think I'm winning in your favourite quote stakes at the moment < 1239045221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you've favourite-quoted other people while I wasn't looking < 1239045222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be circled. My font is lacking the negative circled number variants, though. < 1239045352 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems it isn't circled in Dejavu Sans Mono 8 at least < 1239045356 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 9 < 1239045419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange, because my xchat font is DejaVu Sans Mono 9, and the 20 is circled. < 1239045441 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239045666 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - PERL is now tested with "5-1" instead of the palindromic < 1239045666 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "2+2". Thanks to Alex Smith for the input. < 1239045672 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that was from mycology changelog < 1239045674 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some time ago < 1239045685 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why did you suggest that? I don't remember < 1239045700 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, did any interpreter manage to reverse the string? < 1239045725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was a potential bug < 1239045726 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think any string test on funge should consider that case < 1239045732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing a fungestring backwards is easy enough to do by mistake < 1239045733 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh true < 1239045750 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popping a string backwards is harder though < 1239045753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5-1? < 1239045756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sacrelige < 1239045769 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess it depends on how you pop strings < 1239045788 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is so common you hopefully have a function for it used by all the code that needs to pop strings < 1239045789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why is that sacrelige? < 1239045812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the basic smalltalk test is 2+3, but for minus, I'm sure there's another standard one... 7-5? < 1239045854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what, there are specific hello worlds for testing arithmetic? < 1239045863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the smalltalk community, yes < 1239045864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea wasn't to test -, but to test the concept of shelling out to Perl in general < 1239045883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get a new box, you type 2+3, highlight it, 3-button (i forget the colours), "print it" < 1239045889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure there's a different one for - < 1239046102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has come up with another esolang idea < 1239046114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1239046120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, I wanted to write an esolang that couldn't be written a bit at a time < 1239046128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted modular programming to be completely impossible < 1239046133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea is, instead of writing the program < 1239046140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you give a lot of standard description of the program < 1239046140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.last.fm/2009/04/06/mapreduce-bash-script < 1239046157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a hello world, it would be things like "this program outputs mostly lowercase letters" < 1239046161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "this program does not loop" < 1239046188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that the compiler would somehow brute-force the simplest program that met your descriptions, and compile that < 1239046231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial might be "this program uses a lot of recursion", "this program multiplies a lot", "this program uses user input as loop counters", etc < 1239046233 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you even implement that < 1239046243 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even make the language work on paper even < 1239046243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um of course < 1239046244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: I think it's implementable, although very inefficiently < 1239046251 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239046257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to have an awfully large range of available hints for it to be TC, though < 1239046259 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would description for hello world look like < 1239046266 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undecidability is not a problem in that case. < 1239046267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: long and complicated, I imagine < 1239046282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think hints are allowed to be specific, as long as they apply to the entire program < 1239046288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1239046292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chuck moore is on a rampage < 1239046293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/vTPL.htm < 1239046293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "this program outputs 2 lowercase ls" < 1239046297 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what would the syntax for writing these description be? Natural language? < 1239046304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& < 1239046305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S40 Multicomputer Chip < 1239046306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been asked by TPL to remove this page. Upon due consideration, I will not. < 1239046306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "this program always outputs a lowercase e after a lowercase H" < 1239046307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spectacular chip! 40 microcomputers, each with 128 words of 18-bit memory. Each capable of 700 Mips. < 1239046310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--http://colorforth.com/ < 1239046312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colorforth.com/S40.htm < 1239046330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I like the idea of a fixed-syntax language that resembles English, for this < 1239046349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, all the hints are real English sentences with a couple of replacable parts < 1239046357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLESC-- < 1239046360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't try to parse them or anything, just matches against a database < 1239046372 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this would be sub-tc or? < 1239046386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it to be able to represent at least one TC lang, probably a simple one < 1239046394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that lang + arbitrary input makes a TC combination < 1239046396 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239046403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether the lang itself is TC can be left to philosophers < 1239046417 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but there is a fixed number of possible programs directly in the language then? < 1239046424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why? < 1239046446 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no, you can make it print an arbitrary number of hello world I guess < 1239046456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite number, I imagine < 1239046460 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1239046468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This program likes to run 25% of its loops exactly 6 times" < 1239046477 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239046482 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239046502 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure this will prevent modular programming? < 1239046513 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably < 1239046529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how completely it could be prevented, but surely it makes it a lot more difficult < 1239046542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a fun idea for a lang whether it meets its design goals or not < 1239046550 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239046560 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like Haskell < 1239046575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: troll < 1239046578 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but would the language itself actually be TC? < 1239046586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: what does it mean for a language to be TC? < 1239046587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:33 ais523: whether the lang itself is TC can be left to philosophers < 1239046587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:33 ais523: whether the lang itself is TC can be left to philosophers < 1239046589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:33 ais523: whether the lang itself is TC can be left to philosophers < 1239046598 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1239046615 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and I'm philosophing atm :P < 1239046618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, there was a big raging argument on FOM about it that didn't come to a conclusion < 1239046629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language is TC if you can express a turing machine in it < 1239046659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1239046668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have to be able to express arbitrary turing machines? < 1239046674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just one universal turing machine? < 1239046675 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/turing/universal &/ < 1239046681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just one < 1239046681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: yes < 1239046712 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or write an interpreter of a turning complete langauge. < 1239046712 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239046718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: er < 1239046725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's expressing a universal turing machine < 1239046729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a layer of indirection < 1239046808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what I'm philosophising about atm is if the layer of indirection makes it non-TC < 1239046814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's a lang already we can argue about < 1239046820 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1239046825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming an unbounded playfield, is ALPACA TC? < 1239046836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to express TC languages in ALPACA < 1239046838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239046841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it itself cannot run arbitrary programs < 1239046842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can express a UTM in it < 1239046860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, you just can't express hello world < 1239046867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1239046873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only make a program that outputs a program that outputs hello world < 1239046892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1239046897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being able to express any non-uncomputable program is up there in the essence of TCness, for me < 1239046898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can implement a utm, that's it, tc < 1239046925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what I'm saying is, I'm not sure if your definition is the best one < 1239046929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1239046930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239046943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is UTM defined for this? < 1239046949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like normal < 1239046959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that can express arbitrary turing machines? < 1239046970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying TC = can express a UTM, rather than TC = is a UTM < 1239046975 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Love Machine 9000? :o < 1239046978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing, ais523 < 1239046981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not at all < 1239046984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what this argument is about < 1239047009 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1239047012 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then befunge-93 is TC I think, since you could compile brainfuck code with a compiler written in b93... < 1239047017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me at a T command to HQ9+: HQ9+T has the usual commands, and also T which outputs the executable of a universal turing machine < 1239047022 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that seems wrong... < 1239047024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: not the same thing at all < 1239047031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ditto < 1239047038 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you may be right, but why is it different then? < 1239047044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what ALPACA's doing, though < 1239047045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not? < 1239047052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing, ALPACA always terminates < 1239047060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just takes input, and outputs a program as its output < 1239047067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the compiler < 1239047075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the compiler < 1239047077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to wonder about the TCness of the output < 1239047078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you did an interpreter... < 1239047087 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so my brainfuck compiler in befunge-93 is the same thing right? I think.. < 1239047088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it always depends on user input < 1239047098 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could output a brainfuck interpreter even < 1239047101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then alpaca+input is tc < 1239047104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239047117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but input is just a detail < 1239047121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is, ALPACA can express a UTM even without input < 1239047122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can trivially say program includes input < 1239047128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like halts() does < 1239047131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: program vs. input is what this is all about... < 1239047186 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defining turing-completeness is undecidable < 1239047225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: heh < 1239047234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I like it anyway < 1239047236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, oko < 1239047273 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well can you decide on it? < 1239047303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1239047441 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1239047798 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm are there any n dimensional cellular automaton esolangs for n > 2 < 1239047832 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's like two cellular automatons, so check those < 1239047833 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 3D game of life or such < 1239047840 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, names of them? < 1239047844 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check < 1239047865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esolang has a problem < 1239047865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. < 1239047865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try waiting a few minutes and reloading." < 1239047870 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1239047873 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239047876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: reload instantly < 1239047884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a transient bug that has been there for months < 1239047894 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is timing out for me... < 1239047898 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it doesn"'t work right now < 1239047904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... might be a different bug, then < 1239047942 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now that error shows up all the time < 1239047954 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(Can't contact the database server: Too many connections (localhost))" < 1239047957 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DDOS? < 1239047976 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onoes! < 1239047980 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what? < 1239047981 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's working again, I think < 1239047985 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here < 1239048002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you're DDOSing it trying to see if it's working, obviously < 1239048053 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we allowed one click per day? < 1239048079 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Cellular_automaton#Relation_to_esoteric_programming < 1239048079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of course not. You mean you're using a /GUI/ browser? That's a million times worse < 1239048101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone should use the terminal, how else are you going to give all the articles a pink background? It's not as if they allow HTML < 1239048156 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no 3D CA < 1239048193 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239048253 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1239048262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just saw http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/06/1654250&from=rss, and is overwhelmed < 1239048340 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239048343 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D bully one then < 1239048345 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so? < 1239048393 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None that I can find < 1239048576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wish I was caught in that! < 1239048584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have bought luxemburg < 1239048593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*luxembourg < 1239048766 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239048806 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-63.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1239049207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I think scala has functors < 1239049208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1239049237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he ml kind < 1239049286 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1239050215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simulatedcomicproduct.com/comics/2009-03-22-RedundantSystems.jpg < 1239050284 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol my eyes parsed that as one rocket, took like an hour to get the joke :D < 1239050296 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rowns < 1239050524 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239050758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239051164 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://simulatedcomicproduct.com/comics/2009-03-22-RedundantSystems.jpg <-- what is that simulatedcomicproduct.com about? I read the three last comic and they seemed unconnected. But it could just be IWC-style multi-storyline. Hard to know < 1239051170 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find any "about" or such < 1239051179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most comics have no storyline < 1239051204 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, what is the theme then, it seems to vary too < 1239051214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most comics' theme is "being funny" < 1239051216 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1239051224 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cast? < 1239051229 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that not fixed either < 1239051237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1239051248 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239051274 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to go archive trawling on the other hand :) < 1239051324 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: have you made any more of your awesome comics? < 1239051339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: no, series of 9 < 1239051343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perfectly unround number < 1239051546 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239051551 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it. < 1239051784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1239051786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my thumb keeps shaking < 1239051876 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i keep grinding my teeth < 1239051888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but this is scary < 1239051889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't sotp it < 1239051891 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braces time soon. < 1239051917 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i just grind and grind until it starts hurting too much, then i stop for a bit and continue again < 1239051920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if maybe I should have gotten braces. My teeth look all strange < 1239051940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a tooth that has needed taking out for, um, a month now? < 1239051983 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got braces for my upper teeth, but it was such a hassle i refused to take them for my lower ones < 1239051997 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a bit umm distorted. < 1239052063 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i had this thing i needed to keep in my mouth whenever i was not eating, for like two years < 1239052072 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems i got a bit addicted to it or something < 1239052074 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cock? < 1239052084 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i still get these dreams where i don't know where i put it < 1239052106 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dreams where i've had that thing in my mouth for the ~4 years i haven't needed it < 1239052110 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes a cock < 1239052116 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a peniseous cock < 1239052158 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what it was, one of the four braces types i've had. < 1239052225 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straightening my teeth was only like a 7-year project, so would be kinda cool if my grinding started the process again, i've heard from unreliable sources that can happen. < 1239052321 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-89.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1239052783 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you straighten teeth at any age, or is it worthless past a certain point? < 1239052917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1239052921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1239052922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1239052976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/routine-psychological-evaluations-by-dr-glass < 1239053947 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1239053999 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-114-92.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239054382 0 :k!n=kar8nga@e-38.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1239054411 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest87901 < 1239054888 0 :Guest87901!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239055251 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239056355 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1239056514 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239057113 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-3.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239057927 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((olevel >= 0) and (nlevel >= 0) and (olevel > nlevel)) or (((olevel < 0) or (nlevel < 0)) and (nlevel > olevel)): < 1239057942 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, seems pretty esoteric to me. < 1239058434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sign(olevel) == sign(nlevel) and olevel > nlevel: < 1239058485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the other way around at the end < 1239058512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if sign(olevel) == sign(nlevel) and abs(olevel) > abs(nlevel): < 1239058801 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if olevel=-1 and nlevel=1, then ihope's says true and yours says false < 1239058813 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my delete key got stuck. < 1239058830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's an /or/ in there < 1239058850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can't see much simplification opportunity then < 1239058907 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239059021 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well correcting it into an and might work be a good simplification < 1239059094 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if olevel>=0 and nlevel>=0 and olevel>nlevel or nlevel>olevel < 1239059124 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((olevel >= 0) and (nlevel >= 0) and (olevel > nlevel)) or (not ((olevel >= 0) and (nlevel >= 0)) and (nlevel > olevel)): < 1239059160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a && b || (!a && c) < 1239059161 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that's why you can simplify it. < 1239059174 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT < 1239059181 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN'T CAN YOU NOW < 1239059199 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1239059249 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the first doesn't trigger, then either the seconds one's first is true, or you have no info about the second one, therefor no i don't think you can simplify it < 1239059256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a && b) || (!a && !b && notequal) < 1239059256 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least directly < 1239059271 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*therefore < 1239059302 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess by directly i meant taking notequal into account < 1239059333 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in retrospect) < 1239059342 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239059350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a == b) && notequal < 1239059365 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1239059366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since notequal actually has to be true in both < 1239059378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you translated that into INTERCAL, it probably wouldn't be much more complicated than a typical greater-than in INTERCAL < 1239059380 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239059382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of bots submitted to that AI tournament thing as a function of time (sorry for the silly month/day-formatted labels) -- can you guess the deadline: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/bottime.png < 1239059418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((olevel >= 0 and nlevel >= 0) == (olevel > nlevel) && olevel != nlevel): < 1239059429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-) < 1239059436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An hour ago? < 1239059454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Well, five minutes past midnight was when the returning system closed. < 1239059477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midnight... uh, EEST? < 1239059485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTC+3. < 1239059500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Well, I guess it is EEST. < 1239059520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.K.A. Timezone Charlie. :-) < 1239059545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right, EET/EEST weren't ambiguous so I guess I won't be tremendously annoyed at their use < 1239059584 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239059649 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One issue with those timezone codes is that fractional-hour zones don't have codes and also that UTC+13h and UTC+14h (a.k.a. Y2K timezone) don't have labels. < 1239059686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Closeup of last day: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/bottime2.png < 1239059686 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not an issue with the existing codes. :-P < 1239059688 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: are you sure that's clearer :D < 1239059697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: I didn't say it was :-P < 1239059708 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239059709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Haha < 1239059714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: It /is/ simpler though < 1239059768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something like 10 submissions (out of the total 39) during the last hour. < 1239059796 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i guess it is, on second thought < 1239059799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And looks like around 19 during the last two. < 1239059820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, yes. < 1239059869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I didn't bother with graphing since I just accepted stuff via email, but this time there was a System for returning the bots, so I got to graph the file timestamps. < 1239060140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit of a lie in the sense that the System let them submit multiple times, with newer ones replacing older ones, but the timestamp is for the last submission, so possibly some of the last-possible-minute people had already returned something, and were just making last-minute-fixups. < 1239060195 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239060593 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Goblin or something else? :-) < 1239060729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Oh, it's purely hand-crafted Perl. < 1239060752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A single CGI script, to be exact. The lo-tech solution. < 1239060770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even returned results with Content-type: text/plain since I didn't want to be a web-designer. So retro. < 1239061173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239062122 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1239062163 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1239062194 0 :AnMaster_ipv6!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if sign(olevel) == sign(nlevel) and abs(olevel) > abs(nlevel): <-- sign? no such function < 1239062210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that implicit conversions are not applicable because they are ambiguous: < 1239062210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : both method int2Integer in object Predef of type (Int)java.lang.Integer < 1239062212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and method intWrapper in object Predef of type (Int)scala.runtime.RichInt < 1239062214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are possible conversion functions from Int(2) to AnyRef < 1239062216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure is nice to have good errors < 1239062219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster_ipv6: how do you know? < 1239062225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's python < 1239062235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, there's no sign() in python but you can write it < 1239062238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or import it