00:00:20 I pronounce it "War-chester-shire" and then people tell me I'm pronouncing it wrong and I say "fuck you I refuse to pronounce it like that" 00:00:37 Gregor, I kill you. 00:00:54 HAHAHA *GREEN*. 00:00:57 Get it? 00:01:08 xDDDDDfyj 00:01:20 ehird got in to the liquor cabinet. 00:01:38 I AM - the liquor. uhhhh 00:01:40 ‽cabinet 00:01:59 that was what you thought before you thought that what you thought was what you thought before you thought that what you thought was what you thought. 00:03:06 *****aaaaaaagggggghhhhhhh******* 00:03:17 I have no way to listen to any music while on this account 00:03:29 Wow, the endpcnoise support people are really helpful 00:03:48 Unless someone can link me to some nice .ogg music? 00:06:10 http://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg 00:06:24 Ah, Kill Yourself - a song for the ages. 00:07:28 Sgeo[Pidgin]: Gregor's 5th through 8th opuses are also rather nice. 00:07:47 No song is better than Kill Yourself. Especially because it completely lacks melody. 00:08:15 Gee, apparently my 9th and 10th suck. 00:08:17 Good to know. 00:08:54 GregorR-L: is Kill Yourself prescribed for regular use, I mean if i kill myself and then feel bad again 00:08:59 can i do it again 00:09:13 ehird: Absolutely. Try it today! 00:09:17 OK brb 00:09:34 * Sgeo[Pidgin] vaguely hopes that there's no one suicidal in here 00:10:04 I doubt a song would convince someone to go through with it. 00:10:46 I have no way to listen to any music while on this account <-- huh? 00:11:05 Sgeo[Pidgin], I'll link you. Sec. 00:11:33 AnMaster: GregorR-L has already filled any need. 00:11:41 Sgeo[Pidgin], http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/music/ 00:11:52 http://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg [counteracting] 00:11:58 AnMaster: the World of Goo soundtrack is in mp3s, and I can't set that up while on a guest account. Not sure how to get... Wesnoth music! OMG 00:12:10 Sgeo[Pidgin], um. Those I linked are *.ogg 00:12:21 AnMaster: I see that 00:12:23 <3<3<3 00:12:34 wget http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/music/elf-land.ogg?rev=29785 00:12:35 http://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogghttp://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogghttp://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogghttp://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogghttp://codu.org/Kill_Yourself.ogg 00:12:36 for example 00:12:39 or just svn co 00:12:45 Sgeo[Pidgin], hope that helps 00:12:52 ty AnMaster 00:12:52 he knows how ... 00:13:12 Sgeo[Pidgin], svn co http://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/music wesnoth-music 00:13:14 should work 00:13:20 AnMaster: actually, I can just click on a file and click download 00:13:20 assuming svn is installed 00:13:28 Sgeo[Pidgin], kay. 00:13:41 Sgeo[Pidgin]: If you've got a build environment, mpg123. 00:13:43 Sgeo[Pidgin], and why can't you just get an mp3 player btw 00:13:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:13:52 Install it in ~/local/ 00:13:53 Sgeo[Pidgin], surely gcc is installed? 00:14:03 AnMaster: a bit lazy 00:14:19 no system is complete without a full software compiling environment 00:14:25 00:14 AnMaster: no system is complete without a full software compiling environment 00:14:26 Bull. Shit. 00:14:32 Bull + Shit = That. 00:14:35 (Apologies to GregorR-L) 00:14:39 ehird, embedded systems excluded 00:14:43 of course 00:14:47 but no desktop/laptop 00:14:51 or server 00:14:52 Shit + Bull = Atth. 00:15:07 What's the one with the clapping 00:15:13 Hm, I think I found it, not sure 00:15:44 At least a C compiler, linker, make, system headers, and anything else needed to boot strap basically every other program 00:15:48 * GregorR-L wonders why "Apologies to GregorR-L" on that ... 00:15:54 GregorR-L: I stole it from you :P 00:16:00 Oh :P 00:16:06 ehird, and it isn't bull shit 00:16:16 in any way whatsoever 00:16:18 It's shit that comes from a bull. 00:16:20 Fits the spec. 00:16:31 Haaaaaaaaaaahahaha 00:16:41 * AnMaster looks for the bull. 00:16:42 None here 00:16:49 oh wait, there 00:16:51 behind ehird 00:16:52 right 00:16:56 AnMaster: try a mirror? (j/k) 00:17:16 GregorR-L: Can you explain to AnMaster why the vast majority of users have absolutely no need whatsoever for a compilation environment? 00:17:31 ehird: Although it's clearly the case, no, I cannot :P 00:17:41 Damn you! 00:17:52 ehird, the vast majority of users won't need to program themselves sure. But they will some day need to compile a program. IMO. 00:17:57 LOL 00:18:00 it should be taught in schools 00:18:13 AnMaster: You're batshit insane and I hope you never get into a position to introduce things into the curriculum. 00:18:15 "basic computer knowledge" 00:18:17 or wahtever 00:18:26 like, how to use a mouse 00:18:29 type on keyboard 00:18:39 turn on/off 00:18:43 And compile a program. 00:18:45 write email, browse web 00:18:45 You're mad. Barmy. 00:18:47 Insane. 00:18:57 write a document, and print it 00:19:00 Completely out of the loop. 00:19:06 Two marbles short of a fruitcake. 00:19:13 and basic "read the INSTALL file" 00:19:23 Tom Cruise crazy. 00:19:25 in fact. it would be enough to teach RTFM 00:19:28 ehird, ^ 00:19:28 !! 00:19:36 who? 00:19:43 ... Tom Cruise, who? 00:19:43 Ahaha 00:19:48 yeah who is that 00:19:52 name sounds faimilar 00:19:55 can't place it 00:19:55 GregorR-L: Please save me from the mad "every user will one day need to compile a program and it should be taught in schools" person who doesn't know who Tom Cruise is 00:19:56 Thanks 00:20:09 ehird, actually I revised that 00:20:12 " in fact. it would be enough to teach RTFM " 00:20:19 which will help a LOT 00:20:39 how you best search for information 00:20:50 stuff like how to search on google, where to find manuals 00:21:04 that will always help 00:21:09 ehird, you can't deny that! 00:21:27 A manual is a sign of a bad UI in 90% of cases. 00:21:45 ehird, there will always be users who do not understand the UI 00:21:50 in 100% of the cases 00:21:52 even if it is good 00:21:58 The ones who speak Swedish haw haw 00:22:12 GregorR-L, that joke didn't even make any sense. 00:22:22 Not a lot, no. 00:22:29 00:22 mauke: my ($fst, $snd) = m{^((?:[^\\/]|\\.)*)/(.*)\z}s; $fst =~ s/\\(.)/$1/sg; 00:22:34 a programmer in oerjan's kin 00:22:34 ehird, a lack of a manual is a sign of a bad UI in 90% of cases. 00:22:43 Really, 90% of all UIs are bad. 00:22:44 ;) 00:22:46 pikhq: Your mom is a sign of your face in 110% of cases. 00:22:59 ... 00:23:42 Lets not sink to that level of insults. It is like a sub-form of Godwin's law. 00:24:02 Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 00:24:04 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 00:24:06 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 00:24:08 ooooooooooooooooooooooooosh. 00:27:29 Well, back to Windows 00:27:45 Ahahaha _awesome_ 00:28:05 Pidgin integrates with the thingy on the upper right 00:28:41 Sgeo[Pidgin], why on windows 00:28:42 horrible 00:28:44 and 00:28:50 what thingy on the upper right? 00:28:57 The thing that has the username 00:29:05 Want a screenshot? 00:29:15 Sgeo[Pidgin]: wait, you are concerned about security 00:29:16 and use window 00:29:17 s 00:29:24 * ehird lols all over the floor 00:29:34 You know the word "security", and use Windows? 00:29:34 When I'm concerned about security, I'll use Linux 00:29:39 * pikhq joins ehird in loling 00:29:42 * AnMaster joins ehird with some roflins 00:29:47 When I'm not, which is most of the time, I'll use Windows 00:29:48 BURN THE WITCH! 00:29:50 rofling* 00:29:50 * ehird stabs Sgeo[Pidgin] 00:29:56 Yes, burn. 00:29:58 With stabs. 00:30:02 Why can't I choose when to care about security? 00:30:02 ehird, but she is a duck? 00:30:11 She is a duck witch Sgeo pidgeon. 00:30:15 * ehird stabs Sgeo[Pidgin] some more 00:30:29 Sgeo[Pidgin]: Because if you *really* want to run Windows, the sanest way to do it is in a virtual machine. 00:30:30 ehird, err, she also floats on the water? 00:30:33 Most of the time, for me, Games > Security. When Security > Games, I'll boot into Linux. Not that difficult 00:30:51 pikhq: can I transfer my current system into a VM easily? 00:30:57 Also, I don't trust VM 3d 00:30:59 Not-wanting-to-kill-myself > games :P 00:31:10 Not-wanting-to-stab-computer > games. 00:31:23 So far, no viruses come with ext3 drivers, right? 00:31:28 Sgeo[Pidgin]: Possible, but not likely. 00:31:49 not-wanting-to-run-Distributed.Storm > games 00:31:51 :P 00:31:59 Also, it wouldn't be hard for a virus to have ext3 support. 00:32:09 First, the source code for userspace ext3 handling is out there. 00:32:17 Second, there is an ext2 driver for Windows. 00:32:24 Linux virus: rm -rf ~ 00:32:36 ehird, unless there is a kernel bug it can exploit 00:32:41 OS X virus, too. 00:32:43 It would be endlessly amusing if the first implementation of ext4 on Windows was part of a virus :P 00:32:46 like the vmsplice() one 00:32:46 It's a Unix virus! 00:32:53 Portable. 00:32:55 (That infects Linux by means of infecting Windows) 00:32:57 * pikhq nodes 00:33:03 GregorR, haha 00:33:04 GregorR-L: That would be hilarious. 00:33:14 open source viruses would be coo 00:33:14 l 00:33:15 I'd like them 00:33:23 i'd be down with viruses if they were FOSS 00:33:26 X-D 00:33:32 Using the Windows installer to install Linux doesn't make things worse than a regular multi-partition setup, does it? 00:33:39 Sgeo[Pidgin]: It does. 00:33:44 ehird: how so? 00:33:46 Wubi puts your linux partition as an ntfs file. 00:33:53 It's le awful, and does no partitioning. 00:33:55 And is le slow. 00:33:59 And is le dependent on le windows. 00:34:04 But I am le tired. 00:34:05 I mean securitywise 00:34:08 Didn't realise that it was using *that* hack. 00:34:11 GregorR-L: FIRE ZE MISSILES!!!! 00:34:20 *whew*, glad somebody got the reference :P 00:34:37 I guess malware could just delete my Linux system without it even being designed to attack Linux in any way 00:34:44 Not as plain screwy as umsdosfs, though. 00:34:46 Sgeo[Pidgin]: securitywise, 00:34:51 it'll be infected by NTFS-infecting viruses 00:34:53 hm 00:35:02 Sgeo[Pidgin]: Well, if it can get access from Windows to the Linux disk, then it could install something which will run as root. 00:35:03 Emulating UNIX filesystem features on FAT! 00:35:08 ehird: it's not a single file that uses ext3 internally? 00:35:15 Sgeo[Pidgin]: yes, but viruses will fuck with it 00:35:47 They might well do something weird like insert their code into it. 00:35:53 Yeah, and break Linux. 00:35:56 Not infect, but break. 00:35:58 " Genre: Romantic Classical" <-- how the heck did they class this morden game music in wesnoth as that. (mplayer reported that from the metadata in the file) 00:35:59 Goddamn, just partition. 00:36:00 It's not hard. 00:36:15 Especially with Ubuntu. 00:36:16 If it breaks, I'll just use a LiveCD 00:36:16 AnMaster: The metadata is annoyingly limited. 00:36:33 GregorR-L, no way these are time typical instruments from the romantic period. 00:36:36 It literally has "Install alongside Windows? [yes] [no]"... 00:36:45 Yeah, exactly. 00:36:58 GregorR-L: Winamp extended ID3 has Primus as a genre. 00:37:05 And Christian Gangsta Rap, iirc. 00:37:05 GregorR-L: I thought Ogg metadata used arbitrary strings? 00:37:10 It's limited because Winamp developers are dicks. 00:37:11 ;) 00:37:15 Don't feel like walking across the house to get a CD to burn. I do feel like making lame excuses for everything 00:37:17 GregorR, and no way the music is that either 00:37:20 AnMaster: Hard rock played on a string quartet is not classical :P 00:37:35 (Which is to say, the instrument selection is a bad way to determine genre) 00:37:38 GregorR, agreed. But what has that got to do with it 00:37:44 true 00:37:52 Ok, back to Windows time 00:38:04 actually, what would hard rock on a string quartet sound like 00:38:05 -!- Sgeo[Pidgin] has quit ("Leaving."). 00:38:06 Hard rock on a string quartet is certainly *awesome*... 00:38:08 AnMaster: Awesome. 00:38:08 you got me interested. 00:38:09 ... 00:38:09 heh 00:38:10 Just not classical. 00:38:13 any example? 00:38:20 youtube or whatever 00:38:20 AnMaster: Post-rock would be close, but it's less... hard. 00:38:22 Don't have Youtube links handy, sadly. 00:38:36 But post-rock has things like electric guitars being played with violin... pokers, and tons of strings, and whatnot. 00:38:51 ehird, just some good representative example that I can listen for 10 seconds to and then rant about for a minute or two. 00:38:53 :P 00:39:44 I don't know about hard-rock-quartet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsf2LoLk3SA&fmt=18 is some nice post-rock, though. 00:39:50 hm what genre is http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/music/casualties_of_war.ogg?rev=35621 actually 00:39:52 But also, uh, 10 minutes. 00:39:53 I don't know 00:39:54 So you'd have to skip around a lot. 00:40:07 6:43 is quite representative. 00:40:11 "wesnoth music" 00:40:40 ehird, there is fmt=22 nowdays too iirc 00:40:50 That video does not have an HD version. 00:40:54 right 00:41:08 ehird, which is the best format for video and sound quality 00:41:13 22 00:41:13 ranking 00:41:19 but it also takes 5 years to load, and isn't real HD 00:41:22 rank the top three 00:41:24 wait 00:41:26 for not youtube? 00:41:33 uh what? 00:41:36 yes for youtube 00:41:38 oh. 00:41:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:41:40 There's only 3. 00:41:42 22, 18, 17? 00:41:43 or what 00:41:50 22 = HD, 18 = HQ, dunno = regular. 00:42:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Format_and_quality_comparison_table 00:42:05 that is more 00:42:06 than 3 00:42:12 8? 00:42:18 Well, I don't know. 00:42:21 34 6 35 18 22 13 17 00:42:23 are all defined 00:42:24 it seems 00:42:32 What's the difference between HD and HQ? 00:42:41 HQ is just a bit higher bitrate 00:42:46 HD is a lot higher resolution 00:42:50 and all-around much better quality 00:42:53 i.e. it is actually watchable 00:43:20 ehird, any sudden volume changes in that? 00:43:28 The GY!BE one? 00:43:32 I don't know about hard-rock-quartet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsf2LoLk3SA&fmt=18 is some nice post-rock, though. <-- that one 00:43:46 No. Listen to the first few seconds, go to 3 minutes in, 6:30 ... then 7:45, should give a representative sample of the entire track. 00:43:51 and you said it had string quartet? 00:43:54 Youtube's HD is 720p. 00:43:55 Nope. 00:43:58 "I don't know about hard-rock-quartet" 00:44:00 Yes, really. 00:44:01 AnMaster: it has strings, though. 00:44:29 (last I checked, 720p is real HD) 00:44:40 pikhq: hmm, kay 00:45:02 ehird, that isn't very rock like. At least the classical type of rock. 00:45:05 Anything greater than 480 is HD :P 00:45:07 yeah post-rock 00:45:19 Indeed. 00:45:31 Post-rock is more classical music with a beat and some modern instruments 00:45:45 ehird, not much beat in that one 00:46:01 Eh, it has drums in a rhythmical pattern. 00:46:04 anything more than PAL is HD ! 00:46:11 Anything more than 1x1 is HD. 00:46:16 ehird, not at 0 and 3 minutes 00:46:20 True. 00:46:28 I haven't got to the other bits yet 00:46:28 Should I try actually playing Wesnoth? 00:46:31 Post rock does have a lot of very long intros/outros. 00:46:45 Seeing as almost all of it is about 10 minutes long. 00:46:58 Sgeo, if you like turned based strategy games set in a fantasy environment yes. 00:47:05 ehird, ok it has beat now 00:47:09 not too bad actually 00:47:12 AnMaster, never really tried one before 00:47:23 ehird, I didn't like the start at all. Not sure what the instrument was there 00:47:37 I read a comic that's about something that looks like a turn based strategy game set in a fantasy environment 00:47:45 ehird, why is there just a still picture of some odd orange dots for the video part 00:48:05 AnMaster: It is the cover of the EP it's from, Slow Riot for New Zerø Kanada. (Yes, with the ø.) It's Hebrew. 00:48:08 "tohu va vohu" (תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ) 00:48:15 It means "nothingness", "void", etc. 00:48:18 It's from the Bible. 00:48:25 mhm 00:49:04 Well, it's not much of an EP more as a gigantic single; it's just two tracks of 10/17 minutes respectively and they flow into each other. 00:49:19 EP? LP? 00:49:33 * AnMaster has no idea about the difference 00:49:40 EP is sub-30 minutes, pretty much. 00:49:49 and what does the E stand for? 00:49:55 Extended Play vs Long Play. 00:49:57 (what does the L in LP stand for btw...) 00:50:17 Godspeed You! Black Emperor's actual albums are quite the long; the LP version of Yanqui U.X.O. is 83:58 long. 00:50:19 ehird, at 08:06 it is horrible btw 00:50:22 it was good before 00:50:38 Did it become too musical? ;-) 00:50:39 well at 07:45 it is bad already 00:51:11 ehird, 1) too much "guitar in pain" 00:51:28 2) mostly noise + hammering on the trums? 00:51:41 It doesn't sound like noise to me. 00:51:49 But then, I've listened to actual noise music. 00:51:57 ehird, what about the guitar in pain bit 00:52:09 It doesn't sound like a guitar to me. 00:52:17 overdrive or whatever the technical term is 00:52:24 No, that's not overdrive. 00:52:29 Overdrive is the distorted guitar sound. 00:52:32 ehird, what is that sound then 00:52:46 I don't know; it just sounds like a violin-y type instrument to me. Bow-y sort of thin. 00:52:46 g 00:52:50 ehird, heard again at 09:21 00:53:33 whatever it is, it isn't violin as I'm used to. But then maybe a violin played non-classically is like that. 00:54:04 ehird, it isn't heard at 09:12 00:54:12 (but at 09:21 yes) 00:54:23 It seems my local copy of Moya is corrupted. 00:54:26 starts at 09:18 to be specific 00:54:30 It's been replaced with BBF3... 00:54:33 So I can't seek there, sry 00:54:39 ehird, of what? and what? 00:54:46 BBF3 is the second track on the EP. 00:54:49 And Moya is the name of that track. 00:54:50 ehird, just check on youtube? 00:54:56 YouTube's seeking is broken for me 00:55:04 ehird, youtube-dl it? 00:55:08 link 00:55:26 sec 00:55:36 Homepage: http://bitbucket.org/rg3/youtube-dl/ 00:55:42 $ youtube-dl -f 18 -g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsf2LoLk3SA 00:55:42 http://www.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=Rsf2LoLk3SA&t=vjVQa1PpcFP3IBND5TL6Ui4VDVPVt1LViKkQEiNtjPc=&fmt=18 00:55:46 not sure if they code that for ip or such 00:55:54 try to wget that one. It might work 00:55:56 remember to quote it 00:57:35 * ehird clix. 00:57:38 Meeeeeh 00:57:52 http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp Oh my god cool 00:57:57 It's a computer that you just plug in 00:57:59 It's a pluguter 00:58:06 Smallest thing evar 00:58:58 ehird, it didn't work? 00:59:10 I don't have a thing to play flvs 00:59:16 ehird, err it should result in an *.mp4 00:59:22 Oh. 00:59:34 2009-05-16 00:59:31 ERROR 403: Forbidden. 00:59:35 $ youtube-dl -f 18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsf2LoLk3SA 00:59:38 [youtube] Rsf2LoLk3SA: URL: http://www.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=Rsf2LoLk3SA&t=vjVQa1PpcFMVFjf32EvGGWmN31bE9d4hzsYrdrQ_0ds=&fmt=18 00:59:38 [download] Destination: Rsf2LoLk3SA.mp4 00:59:51 ehird fmt=18 == mp4 00:59:56 It's 403 01:00:05 ehird, then you need to generate the url locally 01:00:13 they code it by ip iirc 01:00:13 How? 01:00:18 Bleah 01:00:19 ehird, http://bitbucket.org/rg3/youtube-dl/ 01:00:24 Link to an actual file? 01:00:35 ehird, it is in python or ruby iirc 01:00:51 Bitbucket, the github ripoff using hg/python so probably Python 01:00:57 $ file /usr/bin/youtube-dl 01:00:57 /usr/bin/youtube-dl: a python script text executable 01:01:15 http://bitbucket.org/rg3/youtube-dl/raw/2009.05.13/youtube-dl 01:01:18 seems like the last version 01:01:26 ehird, remember to pass -f 18 for format 18 01:01:35 and how is it a github ripoff 01:01:41 github is a launchpad rippof! 01:01:43 off* 01:01:47 no it's not 01:01:51 which is a sourceforge ripoff 01:01:51 :P 01:01:59 bitbucket's UI is pretty much screen-for-screen identical to github's 01:02:26 ehird, looks like same basic idea that sf.net uses 01:02:37 Basic idea, yes. 01:02:41 Overview Downloads Source Changesets Wiki Issues 01:02:42 so 01:02:46 but you can match any github page to any launchpad one, pretty much 01:02:57 and the UI, layout, design and functionality are almost entirely identiacl 01:02:59 *identical 01:03:17 sfnet: Overview, Downloads, Source (changes are found under that), wiki (they added wiki a year ago or so), bug tracker 01:03:18 wait 01:03:20 it is the same 01:03:21 basically 01:03:36 that's one minor list. 01:03:45 ehird, just took an example 01:04:23 ehird, but ok, it is very close to github 01:04:28 wouldn't call it ripoff though 01:04:42 Well, I've used github a lot so my senses may be more attuned :P 01:04:56 ehird, and you might be bisaed 01:05:01 biased* 01:05:05 Not really; github has a ton of flaws. 01:05:22 use a more neutral word than ripoff then 01:05:30 Flower. 01:05:34 um 01:05:39 with the same meaning 01:05:42 Flower is a very neutral word. 01:05:47 What more could you want? 01:05:52 "based freely on" 01:06:01 Flagrantly copied 01:06:19 that got a negative tone to it as well 01:06:39 "extended and corrected" 01:06:46 (that is not neutral either 01:06:47 ) 01:06:52 Moose 01:06:52 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if there will ever be a game based on Erfworld 01:06:56 just going out as far as you are, in the other direction 01:07:03 wth is Erfworld 01:07:25 AnMaster, comic about a fantasy turn-based world 01:07:25 http://www.erfworld.com/ 01:07:36 huh 01:08:08 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfworld 01:08:18 AnMaster: whre's the screech 01:08:35 "Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob is a story-driven fantasy/comedy webcomic about a master strategy gamer stuck in a wargame. " 01:08:43 AnMaster: whre's the screech <-- ? 01:08:50 that you got me to dl this vid for 01:08:59 ehird, sec 01:09:13 ehird, it isn't heard at 09:12 01:09:15 starts at 09:18 to be specific 01:09:18 so you can compare 01:09:31 09:17 possibly 01:09:49 I think that's just a bunch of echoes, maybe some fallout from the guitar. 01:09:57 The drums are a likely culprit too. 01:09:57 ehird, fallout :D 01:10:07 ehird, yes the drums start more too 01:10:34 fallout. Rock fallout protection shelter. 01:10:35 :D 01:10:40 that is a good idea. 01:10:44 heh 01:11:07 I have a high tolerance for noisy stuff... I guess i'm a lo-fi sort of person. 01:12:33 ehird, hah 01:12:46 ehird, Yet you want a silent computer 01:12:49 you are strange 01:13:01 I have entire albums that spend their whole lives at 100% volume and distortion heaven... 01:13:04 AnMaster: Yeah, go figure. 01:13:10 Computer noise isn't very pleasing P 01:13:11 :P 01:13:35 ehird, to me the noise of a even slightly overdriven guitar is as bad as that of a computer 01:13:43 You just have bad taste :-) 01:13:45 acoustic guitar I like. 01:13:48 pedestrian → 01:13:57 and possibly electric if they skip the noise stuff. 01:14:04 ehird, are you leaving? 01:14:06 huh? 01:19:52 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:58:32 I quite like distorted guitar. 01:58:36 night 01:58:46 Now what really irks me is stuff that's at 100% volume for the whole album. 01:58:54 That just sounds crappy. 02:32:08 -!- olsner has joined. 03:31:52 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:38:31 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 03:44:55 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 03:46:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:58:03 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:14:57 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:18:06 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:23:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:51:02 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:56:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:12:23 !showinterp slashes 07:12:30 !show slashes 07:12:30 perl (sending via DCC) 07:12:34 Wolfram Alpha doesn't know about Brainfuck! 07:13:23 !delinterp slashes 07:13:23 Interpreter slashes deleted. 07:13:43 !addinterp slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 07:13:43 Interpreter http___oerjan_nvg_org_esoteric_slashes_slashes_pl does not exist! 07:13:57 huh. 07:15:53 !addinterp slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 07:15:54 Interpreter http___oerjan_nvg_org_esoteric_slashes_slashes_pl does not exist! 07:16:11 ok it's not the nvg web server's fault 07:16:21 GregorR: ^ web problem 07:16:45 ah 07:16:50 no, wait 07:16:54 GregorR: d'oh! 07:17:02 !addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 07:17:06 Interpreter slashes installed. 07:17:28 !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/crashtest.sss 07:17:30 Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at /tmp/input.636 line 16, <> line 516. 07:17:45 bah :( 07:18:01 that didn't help either here or there 07:18:31 So it was less a web problem and more a PEBKAC problem? (No offense) 07:18:50 obviously 07:19:29 * oerjan always finds himself interpreting PEBKAC as being in the russian alphabet 07:19:59 so does "revkas" mean anything in russian, i wonder 07:29:23 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 07:29:33 oerjan: nothing 07:29:46 mtve: something 07:29:56 also, what? 07:30:23 so does "revkas" mean anything in russian, i wonder 07:31:20 ah :) 07:31:55 i got confused by GregorR-L entering, must have cleared my mental irc cache :D 07:32:08 np :) 07:37:48 rm -rf oerjan/.caches/mind/irc/freenode/\#esoteric 07:38:28 what does that mean? also, who are you? 07:38:28 that's a slow cache if it's on a disk 07:39:21 "Cache" does not mean "speed booster" :P 07:39:29 free(hash_lookup_str(oerjan_irc_cache, "#esoteric")) 07:39:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:41:00 "Many mistaken the refrain for saying "Do the lucky lady," "Noodle knock the Navy," "Do it like a lady," or "Do the Macarena,"" 07:41:09 I laughed at macarena 07:41:10 Lets not sink to that level of insults. It is like a sub-form of Godwin's law. 07:41:15 well, so is your face. 07:43:27 Haaaaaahaha 07:43:53 -!- inurinternet has joined. 07:44:55 ugh. what kind of sad place is Digg's programming section? 07:45:09 The very sad kind. 07:45:23 http://oneoverzero.comicgenesis.com/faq.html 07:45:25 eewwwerwergh. *feels sick reading* 07:45:25 Gracenotes: should i be very happy that i have no idea? :D 07:45:27 Gracenotes, why? 07:45:58 ah, 1/0, my first webcomic 07:46:40 read the FAQ 07:46:53 it's rather low volume, and the volume it has is hardly interesting? Largely web development stuff and plebeian complaints about software 07:47:04 I started reading the FAQ, then got bored because they were all really bad jokes. 07:47:11 and lots of spam 07:47:25 web development meaning PHP, for the most part 07:48:13 even /prog/ is more interesting 07:48:42 Damn those plebes. 07:49:01 hush! the end users might hear you 07:49:19 ＞＿＞ 07:49:22 ＜＿＜ 07:50:00 >_> 07:50:10 >.> <(My eyes are ASCII) 07:50:12 >_> 07:50:32 (>^.^)> 07:52:30 but, I mean, as opposed to complaints about software from a design perspective, just complaining. 07:53:12 -!- impomatic has left (?). 07:54:08 G'night all 07:57:56 -!- M0ny has joined. 07:59:26 hey 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:15:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:30:04 If anybody has any interest in MUSHes, I just threw one up on codu.org for giggles. Type '!mush' or telnet/mushclient to codu.org:6250 08:30:46 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 08:49:08 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:36:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:43:31 -!- tombom has joined. 09:44:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:46:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:58:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:59:31 Has anyone played Pascal Robots? Most of the websites about it seem to have vanished. 10:01:40 impomatic: I'm afraid not 10:04:53 Hi ais523. I don't expect many people have, considering how little there is on the net. 10:05:44 I must get that BF Joust for EgoBot finished off 10:05:55 you keep reminding me of BF Joust just by existing 10:05:59 which is a good thing, I suppose 10:06:21 I'm just mirroring the p-robots stuff from Geocities at the moment. 10:07:05 ah, Geocities 10:07:06 Are there any important Esoteric sites on Geocities. It'd be handy to get them mirrored before Geocities closes. 10:07:09 so much useful stuff was there 10:07:15 and the BANCStar site's probably the most important 10:07:28 it received a cease-and-desist once, though 10:07:46 Oh? Is there any info about that anywhere? 10:08:13 Are you making a BF Joust King of the Hill? 10:08:48 there's an interp 10:09:01 which I can link you to if you like 10:09:20 Yes please :-) 10:09:49 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:10:46 let me dig up the link 10:11:58 http://pastebin.ca/1414581 10:16:45 I've copy/pasted it to experiment with later :-) I assume it'll work on any version of Perl 10:17:05 it requires 5.10 10:17:09 as you can see near the top 10:17:19 because I find it hard to un-learn new features 10:17:25 some people are on 5.8 still 10:18:45 Hmmm... mine is 5.8.7, will upgrade later ;-) 10:19:02 it shouldn't be too hard to backport it 10:19:09 you'd just have to rewrite the given blocks explicitly 10:19:56 Easier for me to upgrade. I've got a copy of Learning Perl, but haven't read it yet! 10:20:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:20:59 There's a few programs I want to port to Perl before I publish them, so I really ought to start reading it. 10:24:27 that program allows a couple of abbreviations that I often find wanting to use in BF Joust programs 10:24:40 (+-)*5 is equivalent to +-+-+-+-+- 10:24:46 so it accepts run-length encoding 10:25:14 you can also create nested patterns like this: (>{+-}<)%5 is equivalent to >>>>>+-<<<<< 10:54:13 sheesh, i insert debug statements into my bct program and suddenly it works perfectly (but dog slow, naturally) 10:54:32 (well not the whole program, just what i have so far) 10:54:42 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:55:12 hypothesis: something probably happens at the boundary between commands where i insert debugging 10:56:54 * oerjan rechecks that it fails without the debug statements 11:00:19 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 11:02:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("Bus"). 11:06:08 hmm... Wolfram Alpha's up now, and it seems partly slashdotted 11:06:13 as in, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't 11:06:16 it may in fact have been Cuiled 11:09:03 unfortunately, it doesn't seem to know what the world's shortest mountain is 11:09:09 it interprets the query correctly but gets no results 11:10:31 I suppose it depends how you define a mountain. Over 1000 ft? 11:11:10 I know my definition is different to my girlfriend's definition. Also here definition of climbing is different! 11:11:30 well, I was hoping to use the question to probe Alpha's definition of a mountain 11:11:39 I assume it must contain a finite number of mountains in its database 11:11:45 and I was wondering what the shortest one was 11:16:24 hmm... "multiply 6 by 9 in base 13" tells me that it interpreted the input as a request to multiply 6 by 9 in base 13 11:16:27 then it doesn't tell me the answer 11:16:31 which is slightly weird 11:17:40 if I download the answer as PDF, in addition to the input interpretation, it gives me the result: "CalculateBaseForm(54Times, 13)" 11:17:56 somehow I think Wolfram Alpha has trouble using Mathematica 11:45:31 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:52:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:19:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:23:54 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 12:40:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:49:41 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 12:53:24 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:25:30 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 13:45:30 -!- tombom has joined. 14:13:02 It also does not want to tell me the amount of mountains in the world. That out-of-capacity message is funny, though. "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that... Wolfram|Alpha has temporarily exceeded its current maximum test load. See the live video feed of the Control Center >>" 14:22:06 Is it wierd that I have a collection of executable compressors? 14:22:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:24:57 impomatic: all squeezed together in a small place, i assume 14:27:23 * oerjan has realized he can cut off one character from his /// token encoding, by discouraging empty replacements 14:27:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:30:58 Does anyone have experience of fixing "Runtime Error 200" on old executables compiled with Turbo Pascal? 14:31:21 what's the corresponding error message? 14:31:32 I've used turbo pascal before 14:31:38 but don't have the error message database memorise 14:31:40 *memorised 14:31:46 I've got 6 exes I want to fix. TPpatch fixed 2, but not the other 4. I also found a TSR that's supposed to fix it, but it doesn't either. 14:31:59 do you have the source? 14:32:45 That's all I get, Runtime Error 200 and an address. It means there's numeric overflow in a timing routine in the setup code, due to running on a computer thats too fast. 14:32:50 No, haven't got the source. 14:33:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runtime_error_200 14:33:25 It affects most programs compiled with TP which use the screen library. 14:34:32 I've tried 2 of these programs: http://www.brain.uni-freiburg.de/~klaus/pascal/runerr200/download.html 14:34:44 They fixed 2 of my 6 programs. 14:34:57 Well, try more. (The tppatch thing is the only one I think I've used myself, and it worked in that case.) 14:35:15 I also tried using CPU Killer to slow down my computer, but it made me crash :-( 14:35:43 minimize x squared minus (x plus 3) min {x^2 Subtract[x+3]|-2<=x<=2} ~~ minimum | {4. Subtract[1.],4. Subtract[5.],Part[]^2 Subtract[Part[]+3.]} at x~~{}[[1]] 14:37:03 and in Mathematica, {}[[1]] refers to the first element of a zero-element list 14:37:19 Mathematica fails the same way as Thutu with respect to such things 14:37:44 Though if you write "minimize x^2-(x+3)" you get a rather more reasonable answer. 14:37:52 yes 14:37:55 What's that "x^2 Subtract[x+3]" mean anyway? 14:38:16 fizzie: x to the power two, times the subtraction of x+3 14:39:27 What is "the subtraction of x+3" then? 14:39:29 Subtract::argr: Subtract called with 1 argument; 2 arguments are expected. 14:40:55 Nice function help text, though. 14:40:56 In[1]:= ?Subtract 14:40:56 x - y is equivalent to x + (-1 * y). 14:41:25 fizzie: Mathematica works the same way as Thutu behind the scenes 14:41:33 Heh, thutu 14:41:48 so although the subtraction of one number makes no sense, Mathematica just leaves it literally in the answer 14:41:53 and pattern-matches as much as it can elsewhere 14:42:13 Oh, yes. It's a strange way of parsing the English part, though. 14:43:50 well, especially as it was parsed into meaningless mathematica 14:44:59 Heh. "five minus six" is 5-6, "five minus six plus one" somehow does 5-(6+1) which is a curious precedence, "five minus (six plus one)" is '5 Subtract[6+1]' and finally "five minus the sum of six and one" has input interpretation: "5 - ∑6⋀1" and no real result. 14:45:13 I agree that the precedence is curious 14:46:00 hmm... strange that Alpha don't have an opensearch tag yet 14:46:06 so it can't be added to the firefox search box 14:46:47 hmm... "6 times 9 in base 13" is working now 14:46:50 and it was broken this morning 14:46:55 I think Alpha must have been Cuiled 14:48:53 None of those patches work on these 4 files :-( 14:49:10 Running in dosbox (if it's a possibility) tends to slow things down, too. 14:50:21 I wanted to fix them and put them online. 14:50:40 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:16:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 15:21:05 -!- coppro has joined. 15:24:53 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:28:12 -!- coppro has joined. 15:41:39 hmm... it seems that the world's fastest sort ever (for a competition) was done using Java 15:41:43 that just feels wrong 15:56:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:00:29 Hmmm... was it distributed? 16:01:15 yes 16:01:22 and pretty hefty hardware, obviously 16:01:31 the requirement was just to sort a petabyte of data 16:01:47 key-value pairs, with 10-byte keys and 90-byte values 16:01:50 and sorting into key order 16:04:51 * oerjan is surprised to learn that the techtinkering link on the wiki is not really spam 16:05:07 the edit looked so awfully generic it _could_ have been made by a spambot 16:05:11 I probably added that ;-) 16:05:18 ah 16:05:40 i was so paranoid i opened the link in lynx, just in case :D 16:05:51 I suppose I ought to put an edit summary 16:05:52 it was added by someone with the username "techtinkering" 16:06:06 anyway, a meaningful edit summary certainly tones our spam radar down a lot 16:06:08 as does being logged in 16:06:24 There's normally some interesting stuff on Lawrence's blog. 16:06:27 ais523: the username only reinforced my suspicion 16:06:43 Oh okay. I think I've added one of his links too. 16:06:51 on the other hand, having a username means they got past the CAPTCHA 16:07:08 which reduces the chance it's spam 16:07:10 well true 16:07:19 even though that's a trivial CAPTCHA to script around, most people couldn't be bothered 16:07:32 * oerjan probably registered before the CAPTCHA, so has forgotten all about it 16:07:51 the CAPTCHA hits new user registrations, and anons who try to add links 16:07:59 it keeps out the majority of confused spambots 16:08:17 although spam not involving links gets through 16:08:33 ah yes i recall that brouhaha about those two insane researchers trying to save data on wikis 16:08:33 09:07 impomatic: Are there any important Esoteric sites on Geocities. It'd be handy to get them mirrored before Geocities closes. 16:08:34 calm down 16:08:36 it's not disappearing 16:08:39 oerjan: yap 16:08:59 they tried to chastise us for having a lousy CAPTCHA 16:08:59 impomatic: geocities is just being read-onlied 16:09:05 oerjan: yeah, that was aumusing 16:09:12 they said sheesh we can break trivial captchas in like 2 seconds 16:09:13 lameos 16:09:19 wanted to punch 'em for that 16:09:29 00:58 pikhq: Now what really irks me is stuff that's at 100% volume for the whole album. 16:09:29 00:58 pikhq: That just sounds crappy. 16:09:30 it's more horror vacui than bad mixing in this case 16:10:40 "You can continue to enjoy your web site and GeoCities services until later this year. -- We'll provide more details about closing GeoCities and how to save your site data this summer, and we will update the help center with more details at that time." 16:10:47 That doesn't necessary sound like just being read-onlied. 16:11:00 I'll be upset if nobody mirrors the BancSTAR stuff 16:11:01 Though I guess they might be communicating elsewhere than just their faq page. 16:11:22 perhaps they only stopped new registrations? 16:11:28 fizzie: no, it is read only 16:11:29 That's what they already did. 16:11:32 I know this for a complete fact 16:11:32 ehird: from what I've read it looks like it's all disappearing. 16:11:36 because I read the original announcement 16:11:43 impomatic: if that is true it is a new development 16:11:54 also, they'll never get away with it. 16:12:03 hmm 16:12:12 They've closed it for new users, and all I've seen about the future is "things will work until later this year", with no specifices. 16:12:12 http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/geocities/geocities-05.html 16:12:18 that's new 16:12:20 I've prepared mirrors for all of the Geocities Corewar sites. Now I'm working on the sites for some other programming games. 16:12:23 it used to be just: your site will stay 16:12:28 ehird: minimize x squared minus (x plus 3) min {x^2 Subtract[x+3]|-2<=x<=2} ~~ minimum | {4. Subtract[1.],4. Subtract[5.],Part[]^2 Subtract[Part[]+3.]} at x~~{}[[1]] 16:12:37 ais523: lol wat 16:12:41 impomatic: Just contact the archive.org guys. They could mirror all of geocities ;-) 16:12:48 ais523: so, wolfram alpha's out now is it? 16:12:53 ehird: yes, to both 16:12:57 as in, wolfram alpha's out 16:13:04 * ehird asks it "how is babby formed" 16:13:05 and archive.org are scraping geocities as fast as they can 16:13:13 nice 16:13:15 and that's the wrong sort of question 16:13:16 ehird: :D 16:13:24 ais523: i don't care, it should know it 16:13:26 it's on the internet 16:13:31 also, how did you know about archive.org 16:13:32 ? 16:13:33 it doesn't use the internet, though 16:13:37 and from Slashdot 16:13:43 ofc, that could be unreliable 16:13:46 wolfram alpha's just sitting there loading 16:13:49 KIND OF LIKE MATHEMATICA ALWAYS DOES 16:13:52 it's Cuiled at the moment 16:13:54 Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input.Tips for good results » 16:13:56 although intermittently 16:14:03 "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input" is a rather common result, sadly. 16:14:07 archive.org scraping misses a lot. 16:14:18 Alpha doesn't use the Internet, I don't think 16:14:21 i tried asking "What is the second tallest mountain in the world", and it didn't understand completely. although it did suggest a related question that gave the right answer 16:14:22 it just uses its approved databases 16:14:26 impomatic: Erm, I think they're doing it specially 16:14:28 i.e. with the site list? 16:14:29 oerjan: I asked "shortest mountain", and got no result 16:14:35 which is annoying 16:14:40 I want to know what the shortest mountain in its database is 16:14:48 ais523: yeah i saw that so tried a slightly more sensible one 16:14:54 ais523: It also doesn't know anything about "number of mountains". 16:14:59 it wasn't an "I don't understand", it told me how it parsed the question, but not the answer 16:15:53 Even if it's in archive.org a proper mirror would be better. There's no proper search for the web archive, just retrieve by URL 16:15:57 but the above garble I've pasted all over the place, including here twice, #IRP, and Slashdot, is beyond the how-could-they-manage-that stage 16:16:29 Wolfram Alpha, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? 16:16:38 I interpreted that as "how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" 16:16:41 Result: 16:16:55 Next question? 16:16:56 And their natural language parsing is idiosyncratic. I can do "primes <= 100" to get a list of below-100 primes, but "sum of (primes <= 100)" gets "Input interpretation: π(100) | series representation" and a "Computation timed out" message, even though number-of-primes-less-than-100 is quite a lot different than sum-of-primes-less-than-100. 16:17:02 ehird: yes, it does that sometimes 16:17:13 ehird: not even "ZOT!!!"? :( 16:18:31 sum of primes below 1000 Assuming "sum" is a function property | Use as a sum instead Interpretation: pi(NextPrime[1000, -1]) | series representation Computation timed out. 16:18:39 ais523: it's awful, isn't it? 16:18:44 * ehird tries below 100 16:18:48 it's occasionally useful 16:18:52 timed out! 16:18:56 ais523: oh, and below the interpretation it says 16:19:02 pi(x) is the number of primes less than or equal to x 16:19:03 but it's written in Mathematica, which is part of the reason it's too slow 16:19:05 which is, uh, not what I wanted! 16:19:12 * ehird uses as a sum instead 16:19:24 and I get the feeling from using it that they just special-cased every possible query in existence 16:19:27 rather than writing general code 16:20:11 ais523: yep; I guessed that when Wolfram entered his own phrasings of queries when asked 16:20:20 archive.org seems to miss files when it archives a site. 16:20:30 impomatic: it depends 16:20:37 * ehird tries sum of primes below 10, c'mon, you can do that 16:20:53 That pi(NextPrime[100, -1]) stuff is weird. It's "number of primes smaller than the largest prime below 100". 16:20:57 I got it thinking for several minutes a while back with "lambda x return x" 16:21:05 until it decided it didn't know what I meant 16:21:10 You get reasonable list of primes, though; I wonder why it doesn't generally sum things. 16:21:15 "sum of primes below 10" times out. 16:21:25 primes < 10 works, though. 16:21:46 * ehird asks it what infinity is, gets too-much-load-lol 16:21:48 Sure, but it's not computing the sum of that list; it's trying to do a series representation for pi there. 16:21:57 fizzie: yes, which is retarded 16:22:12 heh, it had "did you mean 'sum primes below'" 16:22:18 which is also an I-don't-understand output 16:22:30 * ehird goes to slashdot to read the comments, and gets distracted 16:22:31 "DJ Danger Mouse famously fought with EMI over his Beatles/Jay-Z mashup, 'The Grey Album,' and now seems to be battling with the label again. Rather than release his latest album and face legal issues with EMI, Techdirt is reporting that Danger Mouse will be selling a blank CD-R along with lots of artwork, and buyers will be responsible for finding the music themselves (yes, it's findable on the internet) and burning the CD." 16:22:56 I tried "number of retards", and it's telling me just about everything about the English word retard, with a pretty synonym network graph and everything. 16:23:09 the synonym network graph is ridiculous 16:23:17 in that, only about four of the nodes are labeled 16:23:20 and they all seem irrelevant 16:23:24 * ehird asks it "wolfram's ego in nanodijkstras" 16:23:38 actually, you could probably measure it in dijkstras 16:23:48 more or less than 1 billion, i wonder? 16:24:23 bah, it doesn't understand me 16:24:29 nor anyone else 16:24:32 does it accept mathematica as input, I wonder? 16:24:57 it manages "sum ((a to the n) over n factorial)" 16:25:13 ais523: if you install flash, you can watch wolfram people look at vague statistics of the site in realtime: http://www.justin.tv/clip/2dd6b9f07e7f8a4e 16:25:23 one of them is standing up 16:25:26 is that feed back up? 16:25:28 ooh someone came in with a cup! 16:25:32 it was down for ages 16:25:33 this is *exciting* 16:25:37 due to being slashdotted 16:25:50 and actually, I have Gnash installed nowadays, although I have it blocked by default by NoScript 16:25:53 and I've never got it to work 16:26:17 Heh. "zeroes of riemann zeta function" => "Input interpretation: solve ζ(s) = 0. Solution over the reals: s = -2n and n ≥ 1 and n ∊ ℤ." But that's not the interesting part! 16:26:26 ais523: I am not surprised, because Gnash does not work on anything. 16:26:33 yep 16:26:39 You could just block all flash + Adobe's player if you're using the evils anyway. 16:26:46 "It is receiving universal praise... ...from all the commenters on Wolfram's blog [wolframalpha.com]. It is actually rather amusing to read through the long list of overwhelmingly positive comments." — /. 16:27:02 so I get to shout at websites claiming their Flash isn't portable 16:27:10 ais523: err 16:27:15 it's not their fault Gnash doesn't implement all of Flash 16:27:17 and I refuse to install Adobe's Flash, not because it's closed-source, but because it's massively buggy and insecure 16:27:19 ehird: and yes, I know 16:27:34 ais523: and yes, but if you only enable it on things like video sites, it should be fine 16:28:18 Adobe's flash broke on me; all indicators point that the plugin's installed just fine, and it's also working just fine, but all flash content is just a translucent box. Wonder what's up with that. 16:28:33 When we launch Wolfram|Alpha this weekend, it will be running Mathematica on about 10,000 processor cores, using gridMathematica-based parallelism. And every single query that comes into the system will be served with webMathematica. 16:28:42 10,000 cores and they still can't handle mathematica 16:28:55 Mathematica is fundamentally inefficient, IMO 16:29:10 making it useless for serious computation unless you have a Wolfram-style server farm 16:29:11 "I want to have Wolfram Alpha’s baby!" — W|A blog 16:29:26 "Wow, thanks to Wolfram Alpha I can quit my job, divorce my wife, sell all my possessions, shave my entire body, gain that frontal lobotomy I’ve always wanted, and become one with the computer!" 16:29:27 It's worked very well IMO. 16:29:40 Deewiant: i'm sorry, which reality are you currently residing in? 16:29:41 it works very well for things that the Wolfram people thought of 16:29:47 which != things that I want to do with it 16:29:51 I think you might be trapped in an internet-based pocket of reality distortion field 16:30:16 Also the comments in the justin.tv stream have seemed universally positive, although I've only looked at about ten of them. But the ten have been things like "this is more important than putting a man on the moon" and "you did what is the dream of human mankind". 16:30:29 ehird: I don't try to use it as an English compiler like you guys mostly apparently have. 16:30:44 I haven't managed to break it with machine-readable input yet. 16:30:49 fizzie: lots of dripping sarcasm? :D 16:30:49 hmm... it gave a pretty good answer for "refractive index of glass" 16:30:57 Deewiant: Gee, I wonder why we're giving it mathematical statements as basic English? OH! MAYBE BECAUSE WOLFRAM DID! 16:31:03 Deewiant: I've been trying to give it appropriate input 16:31:07 rephrasing if necessary 16:31:07 That explains it! 16:31:12 even so, I can't get it to work half the time 16:31:15 it seems to be very patchy 16:31:36 ehird: Not all the time, he didn't. 16:31:45 Besides, I don't think what the marketing says is relevant. 16:31:48 average size of human anus I'm not sure what to do with your input. 16:31:51 That's what she said. 16:31:54 for specific things like "fifteenth mersenne prime", it works fine 16:31:57 but is clearly special-cased 16:32:09 I'm very impressed that it works as well as it does. 16:32:10 as in, it has an "nth mersenne prime" sort of query 16:32:12 "avg. human height" works, that's a start. 5'4" apparently. 16:32:13 ehird: >_< 16:32:21 WHAT THE FUCK 16:32:25 so it's just the usual wolframming of special-casing everything 16:32:25 Along with its conversions 16:32:35 It tells me the average human height ... in electromagnetic frequency range 16:32:45 VHF (very high frequency) | meter band, apparently. 16:32:54 you'd be somewhere between microwave and radio 16:32:58 if you were used as a wavelength 16:33:03 :-D 16:33:13 Ahahaha 16:33:20 tallest human info on the tallest human ever 16:33:25 tallest living human LOL WUT 16:33:36 I predict the source code is a gigantic hash table 16:33:39 of string→html 16:33:45 hand-written 16:33:46 ehird: that was my impression too 16:33:50 em, literally LOL WUT? 16:33:53 which explains why it's so long 16:33:58 oerjan: no :P 16:34:06 ais523: what's so long? 16:34:13 the source code to Alpha 16:34:14 Deewiant: The "intelligent" input parsing was very hyped, though. And I still haven't gotten the sum of primes smaller than a constant out of it yet. Admittedly "sum of the first ten primes" worked very well; but why then not "sum of the primes below 10"? 16:34:19 it's apparently over 2 million lines of Mathematica 16:34:25 elite hacker in lolspeak ? 16:34:25 ais523: jeez 16:34:43 just thought it was a fun conversion 16:34:48 i meant 16:34:49 the 2mil 16:34:55 infinity Input: ∞ 16:35:00 Thanks, Alpha! 16:35:29 1/0 I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that... 16:35:36 1/0 works 16:35:39 nice timing :-) 16:35:43 the I'm sorry dave is a general overload 16:35:43 ais523: it's the load error 16:35:45 I'm used to hype and have come to ignore it when evaluating things. 16:35:50 And now I'll eat. -> 16:35:52 Deewiant: yes, but 16:35:53 it's wolfram 16:35:57 he lives on this kind of hype 16:35:58 I'm glad to know that it handles "tcp port 8080" correctly 16:36:06 which is one query that broke in the demonstration they gave me a while back 16:36:12 W|A might work if everyone had their own cluster for it 16:36:13 apparently because it wasn't in the database then 16:36:23 ais523: I bet that's the only one that works 16:36:38 "Oh shit, we missed one -- {"tcp port 8080","..."}" 16:36:39 ais523: It doesn't seem to know anything about ICMP, though; "Did you mean: scamp". 16:36:40 "There we go" 16:36:56 tcp port 64928 (no known assignments) 16:37:01 average human penis length ? 16:37:14 I can't even think how to phrase that differently 16:37:33 clearly Alpha doesn't have porn in its database yet 16:37:39 I therefore predict it will be a massive failure 16:37:39 hmph 16:37:49 Also "UDP port 22; Typical port assignment: ssh: SSH Remote Login Protocol". I guess it's just reading someone's /etc/services to me. 16:37:59 yes 16:38:07 so why didn't it get 64928? 16:38:11 oldest porn star Did you mean: oldest star; Astronomy: star? 16:38:24 Big Bang huh 16:38:40 no, stars came later 16:38:48 true enough. 16:38:48 udp port 80 http: World Wide Web HTTP 16:38:54 lol 16:38:58 someone ought to give Alpha a lesson on the difference between TCP and UDP 16:39:00 ais523: What's 64928 then? 16:39:07 fizzie: INTERCAL theft server 16:39:21 average size of star Did you mean size of star 16:39:31 * ehird asks it size of star to figure out wtf that is 16:39:38 "size of star" is "100 brightest stars | sizes" 16:39:41 How stupid. 16:40:03 average size of star is not very well defined 16:40:08 True. 16:40:14 But "size of star" being "100 brightest stars | sizes"? 16:40:17 That's just wrong. 16:40:17 You could, you know, just do an average 16:40:35 Slereah: no, because you don't know all stars 16:40:39 I do 16:40:43 an average of all the ones in the database 16:40:43 I am omniscient 16:40:49 ais523: click the source information, you get Wolfram as the two primary sources even though they took the data from someone els 16:40:50 e 16:40:58 and the database will be biased towards larger stars 16:41:04 ehird: I didn't realise that... 16:41:11 because they are easier to discover 16:41:58 it doesn't like "sum of (udp port)" 16:42:00 W|A is approximately as useless as I imagined 16:42:06 I think Alpha's problem is that it isn't actually doing computations 16:42:08 which disappoints me 16:42:11 ais523: why did you make it seem sort of cool when we asked? 16:42:14 as in, it isn't combining different parts of itself 16:42:23 Assuming "wolfram alpha" is a historical event | Use as an internet domain instead 16:42:24 ehird: aren't you glad we aren't close to the singularity yet? :) 16:42:27 ehird: because Wolfram fooled me too in the demonstrations, a bit 16:42:29 [["wolfram alpha" is a historical event]] 16:42:34 AHAHAHAHAHAahadhdfjkdhgjkfdg 16:42:36 ais523: Based on http://isc.sans.org/port.html?port=64928 eevil hackurs are trying to use that server quite often, then. 16:42:51 oerjan: wait, why is that a good thing? 16:43:00 the singularity, by definition, has to be pretty good at what W|A is trying to do 16:43:30 fizzie: yes, they're obviously trying to steal data from your computer 16:43:35 that's what a theft server does, by definition 16:43:42 ehird: and the singularity could be pretty bad, therefore it is good that W|A isn't managing it 16:43:51 It won't be so good for the humans who have to live as HEAT MINERS under the singularitic robotic overlords. 16:43:53 oerjan: weeeell. 16:43:58 W|A isn't malicious, just crap. 16:44:03 since it's crap, it isn't singularity-level 16:44:28 how do you know it isn't malicious? 16:44:36 it isn't competent enough to tell if it's malicious or not 16:44:37 ehird: i never said anything about W|A being malicious 16:44:41 ais523: it's too stupid to be malicious 16:44:54 select.intercal.org.uk 16:44:59 and Alpha's processing that at the moment 16:45:07 it gives varying amounts of output on the same query 16:45:17 * ehird tries 1 2 3 plus 4 5 6 16:45:24 let's see if it can do array computation 16:45:31 "Assuming multiplication | Use a list instead" 16:45:33 the first time it tried, all it did was say that its location was in Edinborough, and which company hosted it 16:45:36 * ehird clix 16:45:40 ais523: oh wow 16:45:41 it parsed it as 16:45:54 "1 2 (3+4) 5 6", let me guess? 16:45:57 ais523: you won't believe this— 16:46:04 sec 16:46:07 * ehird types it out 16:46:18 there's a link to the printable text version 16:46:26 i'm loading the page 16:46:29 i went onto another thing 16:46:46 ais523: it is—— 16:46:49 ehird: You can do "{1,2,3}+{4,5,6}" if you want to get {5,7,9}... that's in Mathematica syntax. But a web-interface for Mathematica isn't all that kewl. 16:46:54 * ehird kicks W|A 16:47:06 fizzie: what would Mathematica return for {1,2,3}*{4,5,6}? 16:47:08 ais523: 2 (3 + 4 x 5 x 6) 16:47:26 ais523: but if you ask it for the mathematica, it says 1 2 (3 + 4 5 6) 16:47:26 ehird: ok, that's some parsing trouble 16:47:34 and it's interpreted 1 2 as 1 times 2 16:47:38 and simplified it before showing it to you 16:47:43 It also computes 5+7+9=21, mean value 7, vector length = sqrt(155), normalized vector, pie chart, triangle with those sides, cuboid with that size, and corresponding spherical coordinates. 16:47:44 yep... 16:47:47 pretty ridiculous 16:47:53 * ehird uses as a list instead 16:47:56 In[3]:= {1,2,3}*{4,5,6} 16:47:56 Out[3]= {4, 10, 18} 16:48:02 ... 16:48:08 -!- impomatic has left (?). 16:48:08 why didn't it dot-product, I wonder/ 16:48:18 ais523: if you tell it to interpret "1 2 3 plus 4 5 6" as a list, it parses as {1, 2, 3 + 4 x 5 x 6} 16:48:22 → {1, 2, 123} 16:48:31 "1 2 3 + 4 5 6" didn't give me a choice of interpretation 16:48:43 ais523: {1,2,3}.{4,5,6} does the dot product. Well, it's a dot. 16:48:45 it then gives me the total, 126, the mean, 42, the vector length, 123.02, the normalized vector and the spherical coordinates 16:48:59 I just want you to do {1+4,2+5,3+6} dammit! 16:49:06 array addition!! 16:49:15 ehird: Well, do it in the Mathematica syntax like I said, then. 16:49:23 fizzie: i have mathematica 16:49:23 If you really need that sum, I mean. 16:49:29 i don't need W|A to use mathematica 16:50:00 ehird: You can write "{1,2,3} plus {4,5,6}" to Alpha if you insist on using something that doesn't directly plug in to Mathematica. 16:50:27 I don't think being able to replace + with plus is a great advantage. 16:50:32 * ehird clicks its music example 16:50:38 The page “C E G Bb D F# A - Wolfram|Alpha” has content of MIME type “audio/midi&s=63”. Because you don’t have a plug-in installed for this MIME type, this content can’t be displayed. 16:50:42 FFFFFFFFFFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLL 16:50:45 it managed "solve a to the power b equals b to the power a" 16:50:58 also, it returns a non-HTML page in response to a query? 16:51:07 no 16:51:09 ais523: i clicked play sound 16:51:12 oh 16:51:12 on http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=C+E+G+Bb+D+F%23+A 16:51:15 but it should be audio/midi 16:51:19 it tacked &s=63 on the end 16:51:20 because it's dum 16:51:42 ais523: did they even test it, that's what I'm wondering 16:51:51 surely playing sound on every browser would be part of their tests 16:51:56 it's not like safari/webkit have a small marketshare 16:52:04 would they have had time to test it? 16:52:07 heh 16:52:14 I mean, it's two million lines long... 16:52:23 and probably coverage for any given query is very low 16:52:25 ais523: incidentally, their text-as-images ... I reckon that's freetype rendering 16:52:31 I wonder if there are any licensing issues with it? 16:52:34 probably not, but I hope so 16:52:44 it's probably mathematica OutputForm 16:52:48 it'd be amusing if they had to GPL it 16:52:54 ais523: i mean the actual font rendering 16:53:02 it's freetype's, i.e. what's used on X11 16:53:52 [[It couldn't tell me: 16:53:52 "Who is Luke Skywalker's father?" 16:53:53 You've got more chance of logging into reddit on a comments page than you have of getting a good answer from this engine.]] 16:53:56 [[Why should it? Use Google for your dumb fiction questions.]] 16:53:58 —reddit 16:54:00 yeah information about anything that's not 500% real is useless 16:54:14 information about fictional things is unlikely to be in the database 16:54:27 "integer solutions of x^3+y^3=z^3" => "Input interpretation: solve | x^3+y^3 = z^3 | over the integers; Result: z = Root[-x^3 - y^3 + #1^3 &, 1] and (x|y|z) ∊ ℤ". The maths it do is very Mathematicay. 16:54:37 ais523: I reckon that the sweet spot for Wolfram Alpha is being a souped up Google Calculator 16:54:44 yes, same here 16:54:46 if it was marketed as that, everything would have gone swimmingly 16:54:57 fizzie: the maths clearly does it via Mathematica 16:55:01 as you can tell when it goes wrong 16:55:12 * ehird asks it 700 dollars in roman numerals 16:55:16 Input interpretation: 16:55:22 it doesn't even interpret it! 16:55:37 heh 16:55:39 it interpreted it okay 16:55:41 LCC DOLLARI 16:55:46 convert $700 (US dollars) to Roman numerals 16:55:48 but no result 16:56:12 ehird: yep, Mathematica fails the same way as Thutu on unexpected input 16:56:18 because they work the same way behind the scenes 16:56:28 ais523: but that's not what I typed in 16:56:31 it parsed it perfectly 16:56:34 the exact way it should 16:56:37 it just then didn't evaluate it 16:56:49 yes, I know 16:56:55 it'll have converted it to a Mathematica expression 16:56:58 then got no match 16:56:58 >Interpreting "MXLCIX" as "mlcit" 16:57:09 a stock simple, apparently 16:57:12 "Citefibree" 16:57:14 *Citefibre 16:57:15 *symbol 16:57:19 it's in euros, and I see Paris 16:57:26 ehird: "XLC" isn't a valid roman numeral excerpt 16:57:27 MXLCIX isn't a valid Roman numeral 16:57:33 so presumably it thinks MXLCIX is the stock symbol of a french company, awesome 16:57:34 try correcting it to "MCXLIX" 16:57:35 ais523: I know 16:57:37 or something similar 16:57:38 I just wanted to know how it'd react 16:57:39 MXYZPTLK 16:57:48 The fact that you get all kinds of incidental information is at least nifty, if not useful. "$700 in zloty" gives a good input interpretation ("covert $700 (US dollars) to Polish zlotych"), the result, but also: local currency conversion (in euros), exchange history for the last year with min+max, and value of $700 in random additional currencies. 16:57:51 still, MXLCIX→mlcit is ridiculous 16:58:03 No it's not 16:58:21 ais523: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=MCXLIX ← it seems to think that if I'm using roman numerals I care about mayan, babylonian and greek numerals too 16:58:25 It's just using some kind of basic Hamming distance type measure to do correction 16:58:53 "It also couldn't express Wolfram's ego in milliDijkstras" —reddit 16:58:57 great minds think alike 16:59:31 "miles in beardseconds" 16:59:32 Google: 16:59:33 1 miles = 321 868 800 000 beardseconds 16:59:34 I don't mind the "useless very vaguely related stuff" section of the answer; at least that's something novel. 16:59:35 Wolfram: 16:59:37 Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. 16:59:39 Google wins 16:59:41 —reddit 16:59:52 why do people keep comparing it to Google/ 16:59:58 * ehird asks "average bluntness of knives" 17:00:00 ais523: not google 17:00:02 google calculator 17:00:09 ah, ok 17:00:19 google calculator is like Alpha without the database; it just knows lots of units and conversions and such 17:00:28 also, it parses way better :-P 17:00:43 wat is knive 17:00:49 Simple things are easy to parse. 17:00:57 the smaller the realm of knowledge, the easier to parse 17:01:07 sure, but google parses better than W|A regardless 17:01:25 Google calculator can't handle "$700 in €", it wants "700 $ in €", for instance. 17:01:40 Lame parser. 17:01:41 Deewiant: google calculator doesn't do symbols 17:01:45 it does words 17:01:59 and it does words better than W|A 17:01:59 ehird: So how exactly does it parse better than W|A? 17:02:09 Alpha mostly does well at "glagolitic capital letter spidery ha" 17:02:17 but its drawing of the letter is wrong 17:03:30 Alpha has Alexa information in, it seems 17:03:55 Deewiant: I'm pretty sure it considers "in" an infix operator with precedence and everything. 17:03:57 ais523: heh, "glagolitic capital letter spidery ha"'s encodings has Unicode, HTML and then ITALICS MATHEMATICA 17:04:07 pikhq: right 17:04:16 Only Mathematica is worthy of obliquity. 17:04:38 pikhq: Really? To me it seems like it just checks whether the input has "in X" at the end and then converts to X if it does 17:04:40 * ais523 visits http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wolframalpha.com%2Finput%2F%3Fi%3Dwolframalpha.com 17:04:48 ais523: *BOOM* 17:04:52 that seems to have stumped it 17:04:54 "1 in miles + 2 km" -> no results 17:04:55 as in, it's stuck loading 17:05:03 does it get stuck loading for anyone else? 17:05:08 ais523: Worked for me. 17:05:15 ais523: try reloading 17:05:18 it works instantly 17:05:19 Deewiant: Doesn't parse right. ;) 17:05:19 I am reloading 17:05:21 it isn't instant 17:05:25 what did that query return? 17:05:31 Worked for me too. Although I don't quite get what's the HTML element hierarchy is useful for. 17:05:33 ais523: a bunch of info about the URL and domain 17:05:40 and, uh, a graph of the html hierarchy 17:05:43 where you can't see the tags 17:05:43 pikhq: "in" isn't much of an operator if you can only use it at the end of the input :-P 17:05:49 so it's just a pretty drawing 17:05:59 ais523: apparently, W|A is the 4069th site on Alexa. Hype, I suppose. 17:06:08 so close to 4096, too 17:06:09 710000 daily page views. 17:06:12 that's a lovely round number 17:06:13 * ais523 adds one more layer of recursion 17:06:25 ooh, that was instant 17:06:34 unfortunately, it seems to use AJAX for returning the actual results 17:06:39 yep 17:06:42 very pointless 17:06:47 ais523: it loads a new page and then uses ajax 17:06:53 ais523: OTOH, I've seen that done before 17:06:57 in WolframTones 17:07:01 so presumably it's a webMathematica thing 17:07:06 so even if I could somehow make a quine, it wouldn't send Alpha into an infinite loop 17:07:08 Not really pointless, that lets it give you partial results 17:07:16 Deewiant: but it doesn't 17:07:22 Sure it does 17:07:23 all the results come more or less at once 17:07:33 Not for me, not always 17:07:39 unless you only get the input then it takes 5 hours to load the results 17:07:42 That just means they went to the same cluster node or w/e 17:07:45 heh 17:08:02 What? "height of 10", interpreted as "height | 10" gives me two results. Distribution of human heights (8962 people, NHANES 2006 study), and one panel with header "Test information:" and contents "test panels | physical examination". I don't really know what that means. 17:08:35 I think that W|A may make more sense on drugs. 17:08:57 I only got the former panel 17:09:05 oerjan: I'm going to write a fast /// interp in C 17:09:16 And on a refresh, I get nothing. Hmph. 17:09:18 do you think anyone will care if I don't support \0 in programs? :-P 17:09:25 ehird: AnMaster will 17:09:38 and Deewiant would iff you claimed standards compliance 17:09:46 ais523: that's a plus. will anyone else? also, you just pinged him, he'll come here in a few seconds going "what?" 17:09:51 For small values of "care" 17:09:52 (that was regarding anmaster) 17:09:53 what? 17:09:57 haha 17:09:58 see? 17:10:11 :-D 17:10:13 That was timely 17:10:19 I tried to ask for the heights of 10 tallest mountains, in preparation to trying to get the average of that list. I mean, it's supposed to be able to compute things from that data. (Also the ten tallest mountains table showed only 5, and when I clicked on "more" the units went from metres to feet.) 17:10:22 how many seconds exactly was that/ 17:10:24 and depends on what it is 17:10:25 ... 17:10:31 AnMaster: ais523: that's a plus. will anyone else? also, you just pinged him, he'll come here in a few seconds going "what?" 17:10:46 what is it that you need to handle \0 in 17:10:50 // 17:10:52 * /// 17:10:57 /// 17:10:59 you mean :P 17:11:01 anyway 17:11:04 yes, I just corrected 17:11:11 I don't know if it is legal in slashes. 17:11:13 slashes + IRC = I need to concentrate more 17:11:17 /// 17:11:26 \0s in programs are legal in ///, but I don't think anyone uses them 17:11:30 since you have to put a literal \0 in a file 17:11:35 I might just use length-tracking strings anyway 17:11:37 we'll see 17:11:43 btw, mmap doesn't load the whole file usually, does it? 17:11:47 ehird, you probably should handle it, but I'm not really interested in slashes. 17:11:48 Mycology contains a literal \0; surely you'd want to run your slashes interp on it 17:11:50 you have to read manually for that, right? 17:12:05 Deewiant, wait. A befunge interpreter in slashes? 17:12:07 heh! 17:12:22 AnMaster: you'd have to encode it anyway 17:12:47 ehird, it loads the file as it is required usually. Implementation defined. 17:12:48 Hm, W|A: "Interpreting 'befunge' as 'befang'". Getting "total number of speakers: 3000 people" for Befunge confused me for a bit. 17:12:57 :D 17:13:16 brainfuck: Did you mean: brainerd 17:13:22 Hm, W|A: "Interpreting 'befunge' as 'befang'". Getting "total number of speakers: 3000 people" for Befunge confused me for a bit. <-- where was that from. 17:13:30 Deewiant, brainerd? 17:13:30 AnMaster: wolfram alpha 17:13:31 um 17:13:33 some daemon 17:13:37 W|A, that is to say, WolframAlpha. 17:13:38 oooh they launched it? 17:13:39 * AnMaster looks 17:13:40 yes 17:13:42 AnMaster: needs JS 17:13:42 Yesterday, I think. 17:13:51 Deewiant: today at 00:00 GMT. 17:13:51 ehird, yeah I can add a temp exception 17:13:58 AnMaster: btw, it's cra 17:13:59 p 17:14:03 ehird: It wasn't 2009-05-15 17:14:04 ? 17:14:07 ehird, CUIL crap? 17:14:12 Wasn't that the intention? 17:14:14 Deewiant: eh, dunno; we didn't talk about it yesterday 17:14:17 Deewiant: 2009-05-15 is what it itself says. 17:14:19 AnMaster: pretty much 17:14:22 AnMaster: it's fairly useless 17:14:27 AnMaster: I don't think it's that crap. 17:14:33 Deewiant's bonkers, ignore him 17:14:35 It's a web-interface to Mathematica, which in itself is very cool. 17:14:50 er, that's cool? 17:14:50 Deewiant: There already was a web-interface to Mathematica, wasn't there? Not open, though. 17:14:51 not really, a web-interface to Malbolge would almost be more useful 17:14:53 it's just an online REPL... 17:14:55 How many people live in Sweden? -> Result: 9.12 million people (2007 estimate) 17:15:03 ehird: Cool in the sense that you don't have to pay $1000 to get at it. 17:15:04 that one seems to work at least. 17:15:14 Deewiant: strange, I didn't have to do that either 17:15:29 fizzie: The openness is the good bit. 17:15:30 I had to break the law, but that's better than breaking your head against a wall when your queries keep timing out 17:15:36 Admittedly a *free* online Mathematica is nice. But it is a bit limited as to how much you can play with the results. 17:15:42 um 17:15:43 yeah 17:15:48 it says it has exceeded the test load 17:15:48 you can't use it like real mathematica at all 17:15:50 whatever that means 17:15:52 AnMaster: so reload. 17:15:59 it's the TOO MANY PEOPLE ASKING ME THINKS AAAAAAA page 17:16:00 Certainly, but most of my uses of Mathematica /are/ just one-liners every now and then. 17:16:07 even though they have 10,000 cores 17:16:08 kay 17:16:13 they just can't handle the internets 17:16:14 If I had a Mathematica-bot on IRC I wouldn't use the real program at all, probably. 17:16:28 Deewiant: but the pretty output and sounds! 17:16:30 10000 cores isn't that much. 17:16:30 why 17:16:32 is scrolling 17:16:33 so slow 17:16:34 graphs! 17:16:36 on the result pages 17:16:39 AnMaster: i, don't know? it's not, for me 17:16:42 meh 17:16:45 upgrade, your browser, or, computer 17:16:45 try in firefox 3? 17:16:47 :P 17:16:50 ehird: I rarely graph and I don't think I've ever got sounds out of it. :-P 17:16:55 Deewiant: Play[] 17:17:04 Deewiant: you can listen to the reimann zeta function! 17:17:14 What's about the pretty output? Plot[x^2,{x,0,10}] works just fine in W|A. 17:17:20 fizzie: he said IRC bot 17:17:22 fizzie: That was about the IRC bot. 17:17:30 ehird: But hey, DCC send. :-P 17:17:40 heh 17:18:26 http://www.cybercom.net/~seishino/Front.jpg ← this is what silent computers looked like in 2003 17:18:32 :D 17:18:40 Deewiant: data: URIs so you can "open in your browser". (Packing all the pretty graphics in <512 base-64 encoded characters is left as an exercise.) 17:18:46 "The speed holes on the side make the computer go faster." 17:18:48 (real quot) 17:18:53 -e 17:18:55 97 / x = 22 + x 17:18:56 nice 17:18:58 http://www.cybercom.net/~seishino/Insides.jpg 17:19:00 but why did it take ages 17:19:05 It's under heavy load. 17:19:10 97 divided by x is 22 plus x? 17:19:19 ;-) 17:19:30 It's their first release and it's been at least on /. and all over IRC. 17:19:31 But yeah, it can solve that. 17:19:34 ehird, "solve for x" was what I intended 17:19:39 and what it returned 17:19:43 (%i3) solve([97 / x = 22 + x], [x]); 17:19:43 (%o3) [x=-sqrt(218)-11,x=sqrt(218)-11] 17:19:44 Input: x = x + 1 17:19:46 Alternate form: False 17:19:46 in maxima 17:19:49 ais523: that's a new error 17:19:50 that is fast 17:19:57 instant even 17:20:04 ehird: is that an error? 17:20:12 ais523: I think so... 17:20:15 ehird: That's not an error. 17:20:17 x = x + 1 is equivalent to false 17:20:24 Simplify[x == x+1] -> False. 17:20:26 Gah. 17:20:28 ais523: I was saying "solve for x". 17:20:32 Deewiant was the faster. 17:20:32 x - 1 = x + 1 17:20:41 Whereby the output would be {} 17:20:41 ehird: No solutions. 17:20:44 sure 17:20:46 but that's not False 17:20:48 hm 17:20:59 ehird, maxima returns an empty list for "no solutions" 17:21:04 x/y = x+y for x = -4, y = 2. 17:21:05 Fun fun. 17:21:05 seems saner to me 17:21:08 AnMaster: yeah 17:21:16 Also y = 1/2 (-x-sqrt(x+4) sqrt(x)), -x-sqrt(x+4) sqrt(x)!=0 17:21:16 ehird: You can write "solve x=x+1" and you get "Result: (no solutions exist)". 17:21:22 And y = 1/2 (sqrt(x) sqrt(x+4)-x), sqrt(x) sqrt(x+4)-x!=0 17:21:31 (%i7) solve([x=x+1], [x]); 17:21:31 (%o7) [] 17:21:52 hm 17:21:58 why can't you copy paste from alpha 17:22:00 it is irritating 17:22:14 AnMaster: text in images. 17:22:19 ah 17:22:21 x/(y*x) = x+(y^2)/3 gives some funcomplex results. 17:22:21 Clicking on the image gives a "copyable plaintext" thing. 17:22:26 fizzie, aha 17:22:26 y = ((1+i sqrt(3)) x)/(2^(2/3) (sqrt(4 x^3+9)+3)^(1/3))-((1-i sqrt(3)) (sqrt(4 x^3+9)+3)^(1/3))/(2 2^(1/3)) 17:22:57 ais523: it's quite fun for solving things, it seems 17:23:02 although that's not very computational-knowledgy 17:23:10 one way to handle the load would be caching results. Since it is likely that many people will all try the same shortly after each other. At least it seems so from reading this channel :P 17:23:18 ehird: no, that's just refl into mathematica 17:23:31 ais523: well, yes, but a nicer syntax. 17:23:33 AnMaster: it turns out that the links they had for communicating between servers didn't scale properly 17:23:41 and they only found out a few hours before release 17:23:42 more mathematical. 17:23:44 ais523, wut 17:23:55 they need faster ethernet? 17:24:06 probably something to do with the protocol or the routing 17:24:08 they're probably using wifi. 17:24:09 ah 17:24:13 hehe 17:24:14 it'd be a very wolfram thing to do 17:24:48 why does it use pictures even for stuff like "i is the imaginary unit" or such 17:24:52 Haha. If you do something like "integrate x^2+x+1", the indefinite integral result has a "show steps" button, which will give a step-by-step solution with comments and everything. 17:24:59 Many a high-school student will love that thing. :p 17:25:04 hmmmmmmmmm 17:25:08 it seems that you can only solve for one variable 17:25:12 AnMaster: because it sux 17:25:17 fizzie, ooh indeed 17:25:17 wow, "derivative of zeta function" gives a really bad result in Alpha compared to "derivative of gamma function" 17:25:42 * ehird solve x/y = z, z = x*2 17:25:54 y = 1/2 and z = 2 x and x!=0 17:25:58 well 17:26:01 fizzie: That works? I tried it earlier and it always said "no more information" or whatever 17:26:01 also x = 0 and z = 0 and y!=0, but that's unfun 17:26:15 Deewiant: Well, it worked for that particular example, anyway. 17:26:51 Doesn't work for me; "No more results available." 17:27:04 1 2/y=z2x*=x0=!&& , you mean? 17:27:16 pikhq: aieeee 17:27:18 * pikhq <3 RPN. :p 17:27:33 * ehird solve x+y=infinity, x!=infinity, y!=infinity 17:27:35 Deewiant: I get: http://pastebin.com/m245f8c18 17:27:42 Deewiant: (That's the copyable plaintext version.) 17:27:48 Result: (no solutions exist) 17:27:49 Dur :P 17:28:06 anyone tried an SQL injection in there, btw? 17:28:22 aleph 0 17:28:23 Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. 17:28:26 obviously, it wouldn't work because it isn't even going directly into a database being escaped 17:28:26 great! 17:28:29 ais523: they'll use mathematica databse, clearly 17:28:31 AnMaster: try aleph_0 17:28:35 AnMaster: Mathematica doesn't know about different sorts of infinity 17:28:38 AFAIR 17:28:42 yes it does 17:28:45 it has infinity and complex infinity 17:28:46 for one 17:28:47 ehird " * Did you mean:aleppo" 17:28:48 :D 17:28:50 well, ok 17:28:53 solve x+y < y, x*y < x, x**y = 479*x x = -479^(1/(n-1)) and y = n and n>=2 and (n-1)/2 element Z 17:28:55 that's not bad! 17:29:15 ais523: Entering "'; DROP TABLE AllKnowledgeInTheWorld; --" gives me the expected "?" reply, but also: "Related inputs to try: Chemistry: All". 17:29:19 ehird, tried that, returns Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. 17:29:32 AnMaster: eh, try stuffs. :P 17:29:40 ehird, what 17:29:45 AnMaster: iuno 17:29:59 one thing that annoys me is how the loading bars are not actually loading bars 17:30:00 ais523: is there a way to get it to give some concrete solutions? 17:30:03 just animations to look pretty 17:30:04 instead of a list of constraints 17:30:04 "solve x+y < y, x*y < x, x**y = 479*x x = -479^(1/(n-1))" works. but not the "and ...." bit. 17:30:07 and really? EURGH! 17:30:13 solve | {x+yx = -479^(1/(-1+n))} 17:30:13 so it has the data while you wait? 17:30:22 AnMaster: ... is Wolfram Alpha. 17:30:27 my query was: solve x+y < y, x*y < x, x**y = 479*x 17:30:41 One thing that annoys me about Wolfram... Mathematica? How dare it not be a Lisp? 17:30:42 ah! 17:30:51 ehird, thought it was some math stuff I didn't know :P 17:30:58 pikhq: it's Thutu with a massive standard library and a slightly less powerful regex syntax 17:31:02 I mean, hell. Look at Maxima. Mmm, Common Lisp. 17:31:16 pikhq, maxima is faster too! 17:31:20 And it's libre & gratis. Tasty. 17:31:28 pikhq, though it can't do all the stuff. Like play sounds. 17:31:31 ais523: how can you get a list of results instead of constraints? do you know 17:31:40 ... Who needs it to play sounds? 17:31:49 pikhq: me! 17:31:50 pikhq, Ask ehird iirc 17:31:53 And I'm pretty sure it can; I thought you could stick Lisp code into its REPL. 17:31:58 ah 17:32:07 pikhq, never tried that. 17:32:09 -!- inurinternet has joined. 17:32:19 ais523: do you not know? 17:32:23 ehird: no I don't 17:32:26 darn 17:32:30 although substituting a value would be one method 17:32:37 as in, by hand in the query 17:32:45 i just want it to give me values, since I don't know them ;-) 17:33:12 LMAO... A Usenet copying group is suing the Dutch RIAA equivalent. 17:33:20 pikhq: Awesome. 17:33:45 They claim that their activities are perfectly legal, and something like... The Dutch RIAA is slandering them? 17:33:53 Yeah, awesome. 17:34:03 ais523: ah, it can't figureout any solutions it seems 17:34:12 so we get the silent treatment but it'll give us the constraints needed 17:34:21 probably the numbers don't exist 17:34:34 oh, or not 17:34:53 In[5]:= Reduce[{x + y < y, x y < x, x^y == 479 x}, {x, y}, Reals] 17:34:53 Out[5]= 1/2 (-1 + C[1]) \[Element] Integers && C[1] >= 2 && 17:34:54 x == -479^((1/(-1 + C[1]))) && y == C[1] 17:35:08 hmm 17:35:11 no, that's just the W|A output 17:35:12 Alpha's output is prettier, though. 17:35:13 reordered 17:36:26 But you do have an infinite number of solutions there. I mean, it's just "x = f(n), y = n, n >= 2, (n-1)/2 is integer", you can substitute n=3, n=5, .. anything there. 17:36:32 integrate (dx+2)/dy = 4*x + 2*x/3 17:36:35 why doesn't that work 17:36:39 hm 17:36:44 I'm not sure how to get W|A or Mathematica to do it easily without any extra manual typing, though. 17:36:50 fizzie: Oh. Bit boring. 17:36:58 I thought my challenge was sufficiently... challenging. 17:37:01 maybe you know how fizzie 17:37:06 solve x+y = 478*x, y^x = 7777+x*(x*y) 17:37:09 x ~~ 1.40123597714166989438479711 and y = 477 x 17:37:19 I deem x "ehird's number". 17:37:31 Why? It looks irrational. 17:37:41 (Note: it's probably not irrational) 17:37:45 (Or probably is) 17:37:50 (I don't want to think about it) 17:37:51 it's probably a surd 17:38:00 Uh. 17:38:00 but it's clear mathematica tried to solve it numerically 17:38:02 I know what a surd is! 17:38:13 * ehird looks up surd 17:38:18 An unresolved mathematical expression of an nth root, or an irrational number that can be expressed as such a root of a rational number 17:38:19 Ah 17:38:29 let's see... x+y=478*x simplifies to y=477*x 17:38:51 right, W|A solved that 17:38:55 17:37 ehird: x ~~ 1.40123597714166989438479711 and y = 477 x 17:38:56 so we're trying to solve (477*x)^x = 7777+477*x^3 17:39:15 actually, the ^x there is nasty 17:39:20 so it may quite possibly be irrational 17:39:28 mwaha! 17:40:39 indeed 17:40:51 ais523: it's a pretty number, because seeing "771" and "711", your brain thinks it's repeating 17:40:53 until you actually look 17:41:07 mine didn't assume it was repeating 17:41:17 mine did 17:41:18 ehird: What is the VAT in UK? Interpretation: is | Vatican City | in United Kingdom Result: no 17:41:19 :D 17:41:26 AnMaster: Hahahahaa 17:41:26 * oerjan didn't notice the 711 until you mentioned it 17:41:37 that is hilarious 17:41:40 that is really quite a misinterpretation 17:41:41 er, 7[17]1 17:41:45 ais523, yep 17:41:59 anyone know how much the VAT is? 17:42:07 in UK 17:42:11 I was actually wondering 17:42:14 17% or something 17:42:21 Also "VAT of UK" is interpreted as "Vatican City | United Kingdom" and then it starts to compare those two things. 17:42:21 same for all products? 17:42:22 or is it 15% now 17:42:26 it was changed recently 17:42:30 "value added tax" 17:42:34 iirc 17:42:38 oerjan, yes... 17:42:40 oerjan: he wants to know its value 17:42:44 AnMaster: 15% 17:42:51 and i suggested a better search term 17:42:52 AnMaster: it used to be 17.5% and will be following 31 dec 09 17:42:55 ehird, right. Same for all type of products? 17:42:57 and yes 17:43:33 easier than Sweden. IIRC our "moms" (same concept as your VAT) varies between different types of products 17:43:37 moms 17:43:38 xD 17:43:45 ehird, what about it? 17:44:04 haha: airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow 17:44:06 VAT? Vallue-added tax? 17:44:07 makes me think plural-mom-mother 17:44:09 gave african or european 17:44:12 norway is complicated too. unless they changed it. 17:44:12 pikhq: valllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllue 17:44:16 ais523: well they got taht one 17:44:19 Value, rather. 17:44:19 *that 17:44:24 the african gives insufficient data 17:44:31 wikipedia says it means mervärdesskatt btw 17:44:31 17:44 ais523: the african gives insufficient data 17:44:32 AnMaster: ... You guys have a nation-wide sales tax? 17:44:34 for the european, Alpha says 25 mph 17:44:35 Out of context 17:44:37 TWO-PUNCH! 17:44:41 pikhq: ... so does the UK. 17:44:41 pikhq, what? 17:44:44 but Google says 24 mph 17:44:47 I wonder which is right? 17:44:49 pikhq, what would the alternative be... 17:45:03 AnMaster: TAXLESS AMERICAN FREEDOM 17:45:08 Oh, right. Small countries with a government that is more than just nominally very powerful. 17:45:12 "In Sweden, VAT is split into three levels: 25% for most goods and services including restaurants bills, 12% for foods (incl. bring home from restaurants) and hotel stays (but breakfast at 25%) and 6% for printed matter, cultural services, and transport of private persons. Some services are not taxable for example education of children and adults if public utility, and health and dental care, but educ 17:45:13 ation is taxable at 25% in case of courses for adults at a private school. Dance events (for the guests) have 25%, concerts and stage shows have 6%, and some types of cultural events have 0%." 17:45:13 ais523: Assuming estimated average cruising airspeed of an unladen African swallow | Use estimated average cruising airspeed of an unladen European swallow instead 17:45:15 from wikipedia 17:45:15 there is unfortunately insufficient data to estimate the velocity of an African swallow (even if you specified which of the 47 species of swallow found in Africa you meant) 17:45:16 (asked of a general swallow (but not answered) in Monty Python's Holy Grail) 17:45:16 (asked of a general swallow (but not answered) in Monty Python's Holy Grail.) 17:45:19 yeah it is complex ehird 17:45:26 17:45 pikhq: Oh, right. Small countries with a government that is more than just nominally very powerful. 17:45:29 pikhq: dude, you're an american 17:45:35 STFU about government inferference 17:45:57 in the US, the government interferes with different things to what it interferes with in Europe 17:45:57 I'm not getting Alpha to dig out tax rates. If I just write "tax", for me it says "Input interpretation: Helsinki, Uusimaa | total sales tax rate" and "(data not available)", but I can't specify the location anyhow. 17:46:01 ehird: I'm saying that their countries have governments designed that way, while ours is only nominally *not* that way. ;) 17:46:11 ah. 17:46:13 That's all. 17:46:14 "What is the air speed of an unladen African swallow?" 17:46:15 wow 17:46:16 AnMaster: The Finnish VAT (here "alv", for "arvonlisävero") is at least as complicated, I think. 17:46:16 fizzie: do you live in Helsinki or Uusimaa? 17:46:20 that gives sensible result 17:46:22 AnMaster: welcome to 3 seconds ago 17:46:24 AnMaster: it's clearly been special-cased 17:46:25 ah 17:46:33 ais523, hehe 17:46:35 17:46 ais523: fizzie: do you live in Helsinki or Uusimaa? 17:46:39 he's at the helsinki university isn't he? 17:46:39 ais523: Well, next to Helsinki. And Uusimaa is a larger regional grouping, in which I do live. 17:46:43 renaming to WAVE UNIVERSITY or something 17:46:51 ehird: The Helsinki University of Technology is not actually in Helsinki. :p 17:46:52 ehird: I don't know which university fizzie is at off by heart 17:46:57 17:46 fizzie: ehird: The Helsinki University of Technology is not actually in Helsinki. :p 17:47:00 LOL WAT 17:47:06 Here, each state sets their own sales taxes, and those tend to be reduced for basic necessities, such as groceries... 17:47:10 fizzie: how does tkk.fi work into this? 17:47:24 And the federal government adds an additional tax on tobacco, alcohol, and gasoline. 17:47:31 pikhq: I've always thought the federal/state system was silly 17:47:45 ehird: /// in C seems like the obvious thing now 17:47:48 hmm, its results for "147.188.147.123" were decent 17:48:00 ehird: The Finnish name is "Teknillinen korkeakoulu", which is pretty much just "university of technology"; this is the main one, so it doesn't need to bother with the locational specifiers. The lesser ones elsewhere in Finland have the place in the Finnish names too. 17:48:03 oerjan: yep... it'll require some allocation trickery, but it should work nice 17:48:05 that's the IP of the proxy at the University I used for ages 17:48:05 ehird: I think it would be less silly if the federal government only had the powers granted to it by the constitution. 17:48:07 oerjan: why obvious though? 17:48:11 * ais523 tries their current IP 17:48:15 pikhq: it does, platonically 17:48:28 but enforcement sort of damages that 17:48:31 because it's fast to manipulate mutable arrays directly in C 17:48:33 Monty Python Interpretation: Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl (movie) 17:48:34 Of course, then, the US would be more akin to the EU... 17:48:38 why that specific movie 17:48:38 oerjan: true enough 17:48:39 strange 17:48:46 ehird: Anyway, TKK used to be in Helsinki, but the campus was moved to Espoo (Helsinki's neighbour city, and TKK is right there next to the border anyway) in 1955. 17:48:56 fizzie: did they put it on wheels and move it across 17:49:24 oerjan: it also lets you do sharing tricks 17:49:29 ehird: there was a series on Channel 5 about building movers 17:49:32 it was quite interesting 17:49:37 oerjan: like make a new string_t, -= a bit from the length, then += data 17:49:41 although a rather specific thing to have a TV series about 17:49:50 ais523: Channel 5? Old, then. 17:49:59 it seems lots of special equipment is needed to move buildings 17:50:02 and yes, probably old 17:50:08 WA didn't know what "Ackermann function" was. But when typoed as "Ackerman function" it gave a strange result 17:50:08 they might have renamed to five by then 17:50:08 ais523: I mean, it's called five now 17:50:10 ah 17:50:13 but I still know them by their old name 17:50:20 "Computability Additional functionality for this topic is under development... 17:50:21 " 17:50:25 how strange 17:50:28 I remember seeing that a few years ago on Discovery. Was a while back, though, when they'd show things that have something to do with reality other than blowing things up. 17:50:33 ais523, ehird ^ 17:50:37 AnMaster: try ackermann(a,b) 17:50:46 pikhq: don't diss blowing things up 17:50:52 ehird, I wanted general information about it, it's definition 17:50:55 ehird: It's all they air! 17:50:59 AnMaster: *its 17:51:12 pikhq: yes, and they have a place; they just need to rename to Explosions Channel 17:51:22 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Solve+the+halting+problem 17:51:25 ehird: I could get behind that. 17:51:27 This machine does not work 17:51:27 ehird, that ackermann(1,2) -> Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. 17:51:34 pikhq: how gay 17:51:49 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=itty+bitty+baby%2C+itty+bitty+boat 17:51:52 ehird: They built a new one. There's all kinds of related trivia, like they started building it in 1950 mainly because the place was used to host the participants of the 1952 Summer Olympics, presumably so they could get some sort of (financial or otherwise) help in the construction. 17:51:54 AnMaster: A( works 17:51:55 AnMaster: it doesn't seem to konw of the ackermann function 17:52:01 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A%28G64%2CG64%29 17:52:01 Talk about a knowledge engine 17:52:05 ehird: with the correct funtion? 17:52:05 I'm not sure those are the right functions 17:52:10 or valus 17:52:11 values 17:52:16 maybe it thinks G=gravity 17:52:31 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=butt 17:52:37 What the fuck is wrong with this 17:52:40 ehird: it's interpreting G as an unknown 17:52:41 AnMaster: A( works <-- no 17:52:43 and A as an unknown function 17:52:47 ais523: haha 17:52:49 what ais523 said 17:52:51 and just returning a general answer, assuming G64 = G^64 17:53:02 hmm 17:53:11 how do you get a (FILE *)'s fd? 17:53:15 ehird: i think it should be possible to just scan one array for matches, annotating it somehow, and then allocating the next array afterwards, at the correct length, then fill it and free the old one. 17:53:18 for fstat 17:53:26 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=google 17:53:32 what the hell is "Daily returns versus S&P 500:" 17:53:38 that graph, what is it supposed to me 17:53:40 be* 17:53:56 ehird: fileno(stream). 17:54:19 AnMaster: economics stuff. 17:54:31 AnMaster: it's giving you stock symbol info 17:54:33 kay 17:54:35 "Google (GOOG)" 17:54:44 ehird, yes, but that graph seemed so confusing 17:54:50 Not sure how conformant that is; obviously not ISO C, but it could be POSIX. 17:54:53 it's a useless graph :-P 17:54:58 fizzie: POSIX IIRC 17:55:23 what's an off_t? 17:55:28 an integer of some sor 17:55:29 t 17:55:31 for file offsets it seems 17:55:33 and sizes 17:55:48 Four seasons 3.154x10^7 seconds 17:55:51 hm 17:55:52 Jimmy Wales date of birth | 8 August 1966 (age: 42 years) 17:55:57 that'll be controversial 17:56:01 I was looking for the famous work of Vivaldi 17:56:40 Jimmy Donal "Jimbo" Wales (born August 7, 1966[2]) 17:57:11 and Wikpedia's source for that is Encyclopedia Britannica, and its sources 17:57:34 ais523: what's controversial about it 17:57:42 Mathematica Assuming "mathematica" is a quantityUse as a historical event or an internet domain instead Interpretation: Wolfram Mathematica Result: Mathematica is an all-in-one computation and visualization system, development environment, and deployment engine. [...] 17:57:42 so 17:57:45 there was a huge row about it 17:57:49 Mathematica is a quantity. 17:57:51 Interesting. 17:57:51 ais523: what 17:57:56 Jimmy kept editing all references to it out of the Wikipedia article 17:57:59 claiming no reliable soruces 17:58:00 *sources 17:58:10 for historical event: "Mathematica 1.0 Released" 17:58:10 :D 17:58:11 and of course, people retaliated by finding lots of sources 17:58:19 ais523: oh, more of the "jimbo is a pretty crap wikier who serves his own interests and has a shady past" stuff :p 17:58:27 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:58:28 it's interesting to see that Wikipedia and Alpha came to different values, though 17:58:35 Britannica agreed with Wikipedia on that, though 17:58:38 Ooh, I got a different error. "Sorry, Wolfram /Alpha/ is temporarily unavailable. Please try again. Error: DataPacletFilter: Unable to get Connection Too many connections". 17:58:46 (I was wondering if it had been vandalised to show something different from the source...) 17:58:59 it's interesting to see that Wikipedia and Alpha came to different values, though <-- what do you mean 17:59:13 ais523: what's the bast way to read from a (FILE *) the natural block size, as much as possible? 17:59:32 ehird: getc in a loop 17:59:32 I'm just trying to stream a file into a buffer as properly as possible 17:59:40 ais523: that isn't the natural block size! 17:59:43 it is 17:59:46 you're meant to use fread, I'm sure 17:59:56 ais523: well, that's inefficient on memory 17:59:57 getc turns into a call to get a natural-sized buffer 18:00:02 followed by accessing into the buffer 18:00:07 in most sane implementations 18:00:08 instead of writing a word-sized block at a time 18:00:17 I could do fread(buf, sizeof(long), ...) 18:00:18 i suppose 18:00:30 fread has function call overhead 18:00:31 ais523, only true for buffered files. 18:00:36 also, you probably want fgetc_unlocked 18:00:39 AnMaster: well, yes 18:00:44 ais523: I don't mind overhead 18:00:50 but you can set the buffering explicitly if you think your compiler might be standards-incompliant 18:00:54 This doesn't need to be especially fast - the files are tiny - I'd just like to get it correct 18:00:59 ais523, in fact, only true for fully buffered files 18:01:08 AnMaster: which it will be, unless it's stdio from tty 18:01:13 ais523, yep 18:01:21 and if it /is/ stdio from tty, fully-buffering is almost certainly incorrect 18:01:24 *stdin 18:01:49 ais523, fully buffered stdout to tty can make sense. 18:01:49 fread(&buf, sizeof(long), ??what do I want for nitems??, file) 18:01:54 The pass-to-mathematica doesn't seem to be completely direct. If I write "f[x_] := x+1; f[42]" it interprets as "f(x_) = x+1; f(42)" and results "f(42) ~~ f(42.)..." with a unworky "more digits" option. I'm not quite sure how to define + evaluate a function there. 18:02:08 ? 18:02:26 AnMaster: std/out/, yes 18:02:51 ais523, you said stdio, not stdin 18:02:56 AnMaster: yes, but it was a thinko 18:03:04 and I corrected it a couple of lines down 18:03:12 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=rule+34 18:03:14 heheh 18:03:29 42 18:03:29 (according to Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) 18:03:32 another special casing 18:03:50 18:01 ehird: fread(&buf, sizeof(long), ??what do I want for nitems??, file) 18:04:14 ehird: ??The size of your buffer?? 18:04:23 Deewiant: I'm wondering how big I should make it :-P 18:04:47 CPU's L2 cache size, mayhaps 18:04:56 Yeah, that's not too helpful :-P 18:04:57 But if you can't be bothered to find it out... 1024 is always good :-P 18:05:04 Sure it is 18:05:06 Deewiant: That's 1024 bytes 18:05:09 It's what I'd do if I actually cared 18:05:09 I'm reading longs 18:05:18 So that's 1024 words 18:05:21 ehird: Nah, 1024 is good no matter the units 18:05:24 heh 18:05:28 4096 is also a good number; it's like four times better than 1024. 18:05:29 What is the airspeed of an unladen European swallow? Interpretation: estimated average cruising airspeed of an unladen European swallow 950 km/day (kilometers per day) 18:05:39 fizzie: 4096 bytes is bigger than most /// programs 18:05:44 maybe 1024 / sizeof(long) 18:05:55 What if it doesn't divide evenly 18:06:01 Deewiant: who cares? 18:06:02 AnMaster: what if you remove the qualifier "unladen" 18:06:23 ais523, "too much load" atm... 18:06:35 ais523: It still interprets it as if there were "unladen" there. 18:06:38 just keep trying, generating yet more load when it's already loaded is funny 18:06:42 fizzie: ah ,ok 18:06:58 It's also completely unable to find the same for other species of birds. :/ 18:07:26 special-cased, unfortunately 18:07:31 The function ferror() tests the error indicator for the stream pointed to 18:07:32 by stream, returning non-zero if it is set. The error indicator can only 18:07:33 be reset by the clearerr() function. 18:07:35 ↑ how am I meant to print out the error? 18:07:41 printing the error from ferror? 18:07:42 er 18:07:43 fread 18:07:46 ais523, it adds the qualifier in the interpretation it seems. 18:07:59 ehird: I'm not sure you can? 18:08:01 ehird: when something goes wrong reading a file, the reading function returns an error value and sets errno 18:08:10 it also sets either the error or eof indicator 18:08:21 so you can find out whether it went wrong due to error or eof, then check errno if it was an error 18:08:25 ais523: man fread says nothing about errno 18:08:28 and use strerror or perror to get an error message 18:08:32 Deewiant: it does set errno, though 18:08:36 Hm "wolf running speed" suggests "wolf speed", interpreted as "Wolf (movie) | Speed 2: Cruise Control (movie)" and then it does a movie comparison. 18:08:49 ais523: Is that portable, then? 18:08:50 There's also a helpful "Assuming Wolf | Use Lobo, El instead" link. 18:08:57 Deewiant: I think so 18:09:06 I'd expect at least man 3p fread to say something about it 18:09:15 Oh, it does 18:09:20 I was looking at ferror's manpage by accident 18:09:20 so you can find out whether it went wrong due to error or eof, then check errno if it was an error <-- err. Sure ferror() won't modify errno? 18:09:27 AnMaster: yes 18:09:29 it's specified not to 18:09:35 AnMaster: I'm pretty sure it's one of the few that doesn't 18:09:35 along with all functions on that page 18:09:36 ferror(-22) 18:09:36 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=nigger 18:09:42 ERRORS 18:09:42 These functions should not fail and do not set the external variable 18:09:43 errno. 18:09:45 I like how nigger is connected to raccoon 18:09:52 or with a NULL pointer 18:09:55 although you might want to cache errno before anyway, just in case it stupidly calls malloc or something 18:09:55 hmm 18:09:56 rather 18:09:58 if I'm writing with nulls 18:10:06 Oo, it has IPA 18:10:07 I have to round the allocation size to the nearest power of two 18:10:10 what's the trick to do that again? 18:10:26 err 18:10:29 no 18:10:31 not nearest power of two 18:10:32 nearest, or larger, or smaller/ 18:10:34 nearest multiple of sizeof(long) 18:10:38 ais523: larger 18:10:44 nearest multiple of sizeof(long) rounding upwards 18:10:59 ais523, what is the shortest way to round up to a multiple of some constant 18:11:03 oh, (x+(sizeof(long))-1) & ~(sizeof(long)-1) 18:11:14 wait, sizeof(long) might not be a power of 2 18:11:19 indeed 18:11:25 ais523, it might not? 18:11:31 ((x+(sizeof(long))-1)/(sizeof(long)))*(sizeof(long)) 18:11:32 Of course it might not 18:11:37 Deewiant, ah right. 18:11:40 AnMaster: nope, you can legally have a 24-bit long in C, for instance 18:11:45 right 18:11:48 wait 18:11:51 *48-bit long 18:11:52 Or a 7-bit char 18:11:53 24 is too short... 18:11:56 Deewiant: 7 is also too short 18:12:01 although you can have a 9-bit char 18:12:08 ais523, depends on which C version iirc 18:12:09 7 is? Why's that? 18:12:24 Deewiant: minimum 8 18:12:34 ais523, and you can't have 9 bit char in C99 logically. Since there is int8_t 18:12:34 ehird: "Why's that?" 18:12:40 Deewiant: yep, unsigned char is specified minimum range 0-255 18:12:43 Deewiant: Because they said so. 18:12:44 so it has to be at least 8 bits 18:12:47 ais523, how the hell would you represent int8_t with 9 bit chars 18:12:49 AnMaster: you can, in that case int8_t is undefined 18:13:00 ais523, isn't it required? I don't remember 18:13:08 it's required iff it exists 18:13:16 which is why I hope you check if it exists by using ifdef, without using it 18:13:18 ais523, POSIX 2008 specifies 8 bit char at least. No more no less. 18:13:22 (POSIX does require char to be 8 bits, though) 18:13:32 18:13 ais523: it's required iff it exists 18:13:36 that's brilliantly pointless 18:13:41 ais523, since I depend on POSIX that is a non-issue :P 18:13:54 ehird: I mean, if there is a signed type that happens to be exactly 8 bits long, then int8_t has to be defined 18:14:00 if there isn't, then it needn't be 18:14:00 ah 18:15:02 u?int_least{8,16,32,64}_t are always required in C99, though. 18:15:18 just thinking DS9K for a moment: imagine a system with 8-bit char, 24-bit short, and a proprietary 16-bit type as an extension 18:15:29 I wonder if it would be legal to define int16_t but not uint16_t in that case? 18:16:28 ais523: C99 phrasing is "These types [int/unitN_t] are optional. However, if an implementation provides integer types with widths of 8, 16, 32, or 64 bits, it shall define the corresponding typedef names." Make of that what you wish. 18:16:43 Although that does seem to imply that if intN_t exists, uintN_t should too. 18:17:33 For those widths, anyway. Maybe. Unless you are specifying the typedef even when the implementation does not provide an integer type with the corresponding width, but I don't know how that should work. 18:17:51 Psssssssssst ... somebody type !mush :P 18:17:55 !mush 18:17:59 !help 18:17:59 Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg 18:18:04 !mush 18:18:07 -!- ehird has changed nick to someone. 18:18:08 I set up a MUSH. 18:18:09 !mush 18:18:10 For no reason. 18:18:11 Pueblo 1.0 enhanced? 18:18:12 hmm... mush seems to have been programmed separately 18:18:16 -!- someone has changed nick to ehird. 18:18:21 GregorR-L: I can't DCC. 18:18:28 ehird: Then telnet codu.org 6250 18:18:37 Does netcat work? 18:18:39 I prefer netcat. 18:18:48 Sort of, but you need to send \r\n mebbe 18:18:48 Yes. Yes it does. 18:18:54 Oh great. GregorR-L: No line editing. 18:18:55 GregorR-L: who, news, and help all give the same output, the intro message :-P 18:19:07 GregorR-L: Add it and I'll try. 18:19:19 or can telnet servers not do that? 18:19:19 ehird: If you prefer netcat then don't complain about it's limitations 18:19:19 Can you run netcat with rlwrap? 18:19:21 I'm sure they can 18:19:24 Deewiant: I used telnt 18:19:25 telnet 18:19:25 so stfu 18:19:26 I'm there, via telnet 18:19:30 but nobody else seems to be 18:19:42 I tried to be there via DCC but it doesn't work 18:19:44 and there only seem to be two rooms 18:19:47 !mush 18:19:58 People usually use MUSH clients, and an IRC client isn't actually a bad one. 18:20:13 Telnet FTW. 18:20:31 (assuming a MUSH that handles TERM=VT100 well) 18:20:41 !mush 18:21:10 GregorR, care to explain what the hell it is about 18:21:18 AnMaster: it's a MUSH 18:21:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH 18:21:59 a mix of irc and mud? 18:22:16 GregorR, the who command doesn't work. It just prints the intro message 18:22:24 18:18 Deewiant: GregorR-L: who, news, and help all give the same output, the intro message :-P 18:22:27 Yeah, that's weird :P 18:25:02 MUSHtroshka 18:25:31 GregorR-L: 18:25:32 Quinn 18:25:33 Quinn is actually Gregor! 18:25:35 Contents: 18:25:37 ball 18:25:39 Taken. 18:25:41 Quinn is actually gregor! 18:26:16 ehird: Look at your inventory. 18:26:36 ehird: I'm also carrying you :P 18:26:36 mwahaha 18:29:57 GregorR, tell me when you 1) fixed the pick up bug 2) made something more interesting in there 3) Added a better interface so you can actually see what happens. Colour codes would help. 18:30:13 * AnMaster goes back programming instead 18:30:17 GregorR-L, ^ 18:30:26 WAAH YOUR MUSH ISN'T HOW I WANT IT GO FIX IT LAMEO 18:30:28 I'M GOING HOME 18:30:34 Assuming "or" is referring to math | Use as referring to math instead 18:30:35 * ais523 drops AnMaster in a Turign Tarpit 18:30:37 ais523: ↑ 18:30:38 *Turing Tarpit 18:30:43 AND TAKING MY BALL WITH ME! 18:30:43 ais523, I logged out 18:30:44 ehird: heh 18:31:00 ais523: if you click the other one, it gives you truth tables and forms etc, otherwise just the input 18:31:00 since I'm much more interesting in coding on in-between than that mush 18:31:03 parsed 18:31:10 ehird: I just dropped you in the turing tarpit too 18:31:19 Anyway, if anybody wants to actually poke around at the MUSH, I'll give you wizard privileges. 18:31:19 what's the turing tarpet ay 18:31:21 *tarpit 18:31:26 ehird: it's north of esoland 18:31:27 It's just a room :P 18:31:30 ah 18:31:32 i just left... 18:31:38 as in, closed the window 18:31:45 ais523, I'm not sure I'm going to log in again. Unless GregorR addresses those mentioned issues. 18:31:56 well, I've left for now too 18:32:00 I may poke around later 18:32:01 but not just now 18:32:02 AnMaster: who cares 18:32:12 What are the mentioned issues? 18:32:15 ... 18:32:17 what pick up bug, anyway? 18:32:19 GregorR, look up a few lines. 18:32:22 GregorR, tell me when you 1) fixed the pick up bug 2) made something more interesting in there 3) Added a better interface so you can actually see what happens. Colour codes would help. 18:32:28 grabbing other people doesn't strike me as a ridiculous thing to be able to do 18:32:29 ais523, that you can pick up other people 18:32:35 There is no pick up bug. 18:32:38 AnMaster: that's deliberate, almost certainly 18:32:39 and put them in your inventory 18:32:40 ... 18:32:41 That's not a bug, that's a MUSH. 18:32:54 lol. 18:33:06 You want @lock me = me 18:33:08 btw 18:33:13 interesting 18:33:17 ais523: how do you make a stream unbuffered in c? setbuf/setvbuf etc need you to specify a buffer location etc. 18:33:24 That locks you so only you can pick ... you ... up. Except you can't actually pick yourself up :P 18:33:29 ehird: it's with setvbuf 18:33:35 there's a special combination of options 18:33:41 probably involving null in the buffer location 18:33:43 GregorR-L, there is no complete list of commands btw. I had to guess that it was "quit" to quit 18:33:45 In a MUSH, /everything/ is an object. Everything. That's just how MUSHes are. Rooms are objects, exits are objects, people are objects. 18:33:46 together with another couple of things 18:33:48 instead of, say, exit 18:33:50 or leave 18:33:51 ais523: ah yes 18:33:54 setbuf(stream, NULL) 18:33:58 GregorR, that is yet another issue. 18:34:17 also, prize to anyone who figures out a good use for p&&(!q||(!r&&(p&&q))). http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=p+and+%28%28not+q%29+or+%28%28not+r%29+and+%28p+and+q%29%29%29&a=*C.or-_*MathOperator- for truth table 18:34:18 OMG, you have to learn how to MUSH before you MUSH, shocking :P 18:34:24 GregorR-L: YO DAWG 18:34:32 GregorR-L, help commands didn't give me a list of commands. 18:34:43 GregorR, nor could I find one anywhere else 18:34:47 AnMaster: there are a few hundred of them, I imagine 18:34:50 I see. 18:35:01 I seee. I am far too esteemed for this. 18:35:07 % ./slashes /dev/zero 18:35:07 zsh: segmentation fault ./slashes /dev/zero 18:35:07 ehird, what? 18:35:13 I wonder if fstat reports the size of /dev/zero wrong? 18:35:19 ehird, what? 18:35:20 ehird, what? 18:35:20 ehird, what? 18:35:20 ehird, what? 18:35:30 AnMaster: Congrats, you're a flooder. 18:35:37 ehird: Assuming "or" is referring to math | Use as referring to math instead 18:35:38 ehird, I'm just copying your behaviour 18:35:43 GregorR-L: Yeah. :-P 18:36:08 AnMaster: Soon you'll be copying behaviour I rarely do so much that you'll be a giant dickwad. 18:36:12 % ls -lh /dev/zero 18:36:13 crw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 3, 3 6 May 18:17 /dev/zero 18:36:15 Curious output. 18:36:17 I wonder what that comma is? 18:36:22 ehird, you seem to do it quite a lot. 18:36:27 ehird: 3,3 is the name of the device 18:36:35 as in, they're the numbers you tell the kernel 18:36:36 " I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care." 18:36:36 AnMaster: And as we were taught in school: Two wrongs make a right. 18:36:40 in order to access /dev/zero 18:36:43 AnMaster: that was after you flooded me 18:36:57 I only flood in response to being constantly bugged about something repeatedly. 18:37:05 ehird, Odd definition of flood. 18:37:05 ais523: what do you think its size as reported as? 18:37:10 if you fstat it 18:37:14 it isn't, I don't think 18:37:17 asking nicely until you get an answer != flood. 18:37:25 flood is posting a lot quickly 18:37:28 AnMaster: Nicely? haha 18:37:40 you continually demand an answer from me as if you have some kind of obligation 18:37:40 ehird, the one above wasn't nicely no. 18:37:46 You can't use the st_size as more of a hint what you might be getting from the file, though. 18:37:57 when has repeatedly asking me ever helped AnMaster? 18:38:05 fizzie: Oh? Why not? 18:38:06 Anyway, I can hardly see how it could report a "correct size" for /dev/zero. 18:38:11 fizzie: It's an fstat on an open file. 18:38:14 well, it's infinitely large 18:38:18 ehird, since you seem to be attacking me when I say that MUSH seems boring and I'm not going to look at it again unless these major issues are addressed. 18:38:28 ehird: Someone could still write more into it. 18:38:31 AnMaster: it's that we don't think they're major issues 18:38:33 AnMaster: I was mimicing your whining. 18:38:39 ais523, that is subjective. 18:38:49 ehird, whining is wrong word. 18:38:59 You acted, AnMaster, as if you have a sense of entitlement to have these "bugs" fixed. You called them—objectively—bugs. You acted in a way that would suggest you'd "want your money back". 18:39:00 in fact, you're complaining about intended behaviour 18:39:07 This is called "unreasonable", and I mocked it. 18:39:08 bbl, got more interesting stuff to do. 18:39:19 fizzie: Well, true. 18:39:25 fizzie: It's such a pain to reallocate, though. 18:39:26 -!- Judofyr has joined. 18:39:27 ais523, Like the horrible messy interface. That is hard to read. 18:39:34 right. Intended feature. 18:39:37 maybe you need glasses, AnMaster 18:39:41 well 90% of all UIs are bad. True. 18:39:43 it isn't perfect but it's easy to read. 18:39:44 AnMaster: it's intended for streaming onto a client, I think 18:39:49 it's exactly the same as IRC over telnet 18:39:52 just with less metadata 18:40:23 ais523, yes. But why did he make it available over DCC then without adding that translation 18:40:36 Because it's a quick hack? 18:40:51 Since obviously Egobot acts as a gateway/proxy there 18:40:59 No, it doesn't. 18:41:02 translating to another protocol. 18:41:05 No, it doesn't. 18:41:06 beh, Wolfram Alpha fails on "turing machine 596440" 18:41:10 GregorR-L, then it should. 18:41:11 which I'd expect it to be good at 18:41:13 The DCC chat protocol is telnet. 18:41:38 ais523: what about 2,3? 18:41:47 ehird: I tried that search term too 18:41:52 wtf 18:41:53 but there are lots of 2,3 turing machines around 18:41:54 W|A can't handle (p and ~q and ~r and s) or (~p and q and ~r and s) or (p and ~q and r and ~s) or (~p and q and r and ~s) 18:41:57 but it can handle similar things 18:41:57 I tried, it no worky :PP 18:42:08 The DCC chat protocol is Telnet with metadata over IRC. 18:42:12 Get it right. ;) 18:42:12 it helps to specify which 18:42:15 pikhq: are you sure? 18:42:20 pikhq: Oooooh :P 18:42:28 oh 18:42:31 I thought you meant 18:42:34 W|A: "universal turing machine" => "Computability: Additional functionality for this topic is under development... Leave your email address to be notified whan it is ready." 18:42:34 the dcc chats itself had metadata 18:42:37 those are just raw telnet 18:42:37 ehird: The connection is negotiated via IRC. 18:42:47 ais523: any idea why my query doesn't work? 18:43:38 ehird: yes, Wolfram Alpha doesn't have a special case for that yet 18:43:54 ais523: no, but, seriously; shorter forms using the same variables work 18:44:11 for instance, "p and ~q and ~r and s" works 18:44:17 is it timing out? 18:44:24 nope 18:44:27 ais523: (p and ~q and ~r and s) or (~p and q and ~r and s) also works 18:44:31 but the longer form — bzzt 18:45:06 ais523: [ Infrastructure for this computation provided by Wolfram|Alpha launch partner Dell, Inc. ] 18:45:13 Dell are on crack 18:45:29 "(p and ~q and ~r and s) or (~p and q and ~r and s) or (q and p and r)" also works, but not if you add the missing "and s" to that last group. 18:45:44 fizzie: that's truly bizarre 18:45:46 Curious limit-a-tron. 18:46:01 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:46:02 i mean, i was starting to have fun! 18:46:03 fizzie, indeed. 18:46:25 Maybe their logic-circuit drawing tool would start to overheat at that point. 18:46:37 Or they couldn't figure out how to do the Venn diagram any more. 18:46:50 ais523: I figured out what the math-or-math thing means 18:46:50 I'm trying to get it to give me the life expectancy in Europe in the middle ages, and it times out :P 18:46:59 click use as referring to math and you get: 18:47:00 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=p+implies+%28not+q+or+r%29&a=*C.or-_*InfixFunctionOperator-&a=ListOrTimes_Times 18:47:05 click again and you get 18:47:05 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=p+implies+%28not+q+or+r%29&a=*C.or-_*MathOperator-&a=ListOrTimes_Times 18:47:10 so it's infix function operator vs math operator. 18:47:17 a mathematical distinction, probably 18:47:36 er 18:47:37 mathematica 18:47:39 *yikes 18:47:43 I almost turned into wolfram there 18:48:06 Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input.Tips for good results » 18:48:06 Related inputs to try: 18:48:07 life expectancy in Europe the middle ages more... 18:48:09 gregorr: 18:48:13 Will you give me free Mathematicas then? 18:48:14 where life expectancy in Europe is separate from the other 18:48:17 ehird: p&&(!q||(!r&&(p&&q))) = p&&(!q||(!r&&q)) = p&&(!q||!r) 18:48:28 oerjan: oh, how boring :-D 18:48:29 We’ve always thought that Mathematica was an increasingly development environment. 18:48:39 ais523: they accidentally the adjective 18:48:42 hm 18:48:49 no, he accidentally the adverb 18:48:50 Slereah: whut? 18:48:52 The whole adjective? 18:48:53 ais523: no 18:48:58 ais523: "increasingly powerful development environment" 18:49:01 oh, right 18:49:02 yes 18:49:02 advert 18:49:03 ehird : If you are now Wolfram 18:49:04 b 18:49:08 thougth you said verb 18:49:13 ehird: Did you not notice the "p&&(!q||!r)" form in the "minimal forms" table? 18:49:31 fizzie: Yyeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssss... 18:49:39 GregorR-L: middle+ages+life+expectancy+in+europe doesn't work either 18:50:31 ehird: i did not look at the page, actually *ducks* 18:50:57 argh 18:50:57 european life expectancy in middle ages 18:50:58 doesn't work either 18:51:01 even though each part does 18:51:10 ah wai 18:51:11 t 18:51:11 life expectancy in middle ages 18:51:13 doesn't work 18:52:04 GregorR-L: I guess they don't have the data 18:52:08 The nonsensical "middle europe the middle of the" gets input interpretation "Europe | center coordinates | Europe | center coordinates" but no results. 18:52:48 "middle europe the middle of the" is hilarious and I don't know why 18:53:16 * ehird asks european bulldogs' wingspan 18:53:42 (p and ~q and ~r and s) or (~p and q and ~r and s) or (p and ~q and r and ~s) or (~p and q and r and ~s) works now! 18:53:46 ^_^ 18:54:00 ehird: I think it's Cuiled 18:54:09 ais523: whadya mean 18:54:11 which is like being slashdotted, but instead of timing out, you randomly return worse results 18:54:14 ah 18:54:21 not worse results, I think 18:54:22 which is what happened to Cuil, and everyone thought it was rubbish 18:54:22 just incomplete 18:54:25 yes 18:54:29 i'm having quite a fun time with this, actually 18:54:36 it's good if you don't use it for what wolfram wants you to 18:55:14 wtf 18:55:18 I fixed it to as-in-math 18:55:20 and it chopped my input 18:55:22 which is like being slashdotted, but instead of timing out, you randomly return worse results <-- that makes a bad impression. Important rule: Always make it time out or display an error message in case of failure. 18:55:23 oh, maybe i'd just entered it 18:55:24 and not searched 18:55:36 AnMaster: it doesn't make a bad impression in normal usage 18:55:37 AnMaster: well, cuil /did/ make a bad impression 18:55:41 some results are better than an error 18:55:44 it isn't nearly as bad as everyone thought it was 18:55:45 ais523, that is what I said! 18:59:52 Height of the tallest tree is 0.86 times the length of Noah's Ark; that's useful information if anything. 19:00:43 I did know that football fields and such are generally used as human-grokkable size units, but I didn't know Noah's Ark even had a well-defined length. (300 cubits.) 19:00:48 length of jesus 19:00:54 Interpretation: Jesus | runtime 19:01:02 Result: 117 minutes (1 hour 57 minutes) 19:01:05 Assuming Jesus (1979) | Use Jesus (2000) instead 19:01:13 LMAO 19:01:13 The third and fourth comings, clearly. 19:01:26 The year 2000 Jesus runs for 240 minutes. It's a much improved version. 19:01:30 "Genres drama | family" 19:01:52 "box office total $43,124" 19:01:57 Jesus in 1979 was wildly popular. 19:02:20 jesus height 19:02:21 ehird: Well, "height of Jesus" => "Interpretation: Jesus, Itapua, Paraguay | elevation" => 221 metres. 19:02:24 yeah 19:02:27 i was about to say 19:02:27 :-D 19:02:41 221 metres, no wonder He made quite an impression. 19:02:46 X-D 19:02:57 how tall's christ the redeemer? 19:03:07 BTW, making TinyMUSH spew colors and/or at least highlights = wowzersdifficult. 19:03:11 38 meters high 19:03:17 it's the miniature version 19:04:06 the issue seems to be is that it has no idea his height 19:04:06 ooh 19:04:13 this is contravarsial 19:04:18 it places his date of birth as 4 BC 19:04:38 pikhq: as a christian, what is your stance on that? :-P 19:04:46 I have no idea how accurate Alpha's data is 19:04:53 if it got Jimbo's birthdate wrong, what else could be wrong? 19:04:58 it also spells bethlehem as Bayt Lahm, which while correct is amusing 19:05:00 (I reported the error to Alpha, btw, to see what happened) 19:05:04 ais523: click source information 19:05:10 primary source: Wolfram|Alpha 19:05:10 ehird: I did 19:05:13 secondary: lots 19:05:14 yes 19:05:17 ais523: i mean on http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=jesus+christ 19:05:21 ehird: ... That's controversial? 19:05:23 including Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica 19:05:33 pikhq: it isn't? Wasn't he born - yknow - 1 AD? 19:05:45 it's slightly worrying that they list the Encyclopedia Britannica 1911 as a source for Jimbo's birth 19:05:49 ais523: :DD 19:05:50 ehird: I though that it was fairly well-known that 1 AD was the wrong date, and we only use it because of tradition. 19:06:07 pikhq: I will never understand religion. 19:06:50 This isn't even a case of religion. 19:06:59 This is a case of dating methods. 19:07:01 That's all. 19:07:24 pikhq: ah, so the stance is "4 BC was called 1 AD when the bible was written"? 19:07:42 or sth 19:07:50 er, i wrote that wrong 19:07:55 whatever, infer the correct meaning :^) 19:08:25 No, the stance is rather "in the middle ages, we though Jesus was born 1 AD, so we stuck that as the calendar's epoch. As it turns out, we had the wrong date. Too late to change the epoch." 19:08:47 Our current dating system didn't exist during Christ's lifetime, you see. ;) 19:08:56 i just don't understand how both "the people who wrote the bible were wrong about stuff" and "the bible is the true word of God" can co-exist 19:08:59 Distance to the moon / height of mt everest = 45296 19:09:25 Uhhhh, there's no mention of BC or AD in the Bible ... 19:09:33 ehird: There weren't many specific dates in the Bible itself. 19:09:35 GregorR-L: thus my phrasology 19:09:42 19:07 ehird: er, i wrote that wrong 19:09:42 19:07 ehird: whatever, infer the correct meaning :^) 19:09:54 I have no idea what the correct meaning is :P 19:09:59 The dating itself is from 400 AD and later. 19:10:02 yeah well that's your problem GregorR-L :) 19:10:02 There just was no exact date in the Bible, so they guessed. 19:10:24 And as it turns out, they were off by a few years. 19:10:57 w|a doesn't know what christianity is 19:10:59 That's about as controversial in Christian circles as whether or not Christ was born. :p 19:11:03 Average distance to Jupiter in lightminutes = 41.26 19:11:04 although it knows it's in the category religion 19:11:29 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:13:15 I'm trying to make it give me a plot of the distance to Jupiter now, and it's failing :P 19:13:25 GregorR-L: plot of what 19:13:42 ...... the distance to Jupiter. Over time. 19:13:50 Over time. Right. 19:14:00 GregorR-L: Over time of what? 19:14:06 I'm trying to get you to be specific to W|A here ;-) 19:14:14 Time ... of what? 19:14:23 GregorR-L: What, exactly, do you want plotted? 19:14:39 The distance from Earth to Jupiter over ANY period of time. 19:14:46 From earth. To jupiter. There you go. 19:15:01 GregorR-L: try "plot distance to jupiter from earth over 2007 to 2008" 19:15:06 http://www.justin.tv/clip/2dd6b9f07e7f8a4e the same guy is still standing up 19:15:45 ehird: I tried something very similar before, and that now, and neither work. 19:16:03 GEEZE WOLFRAM ALPHA GIMME DA PLOTS 19:16:06 Oh well, fudge with the input. 19:16:22 GregorR-L: start simple and build up 19:16:34 I've tried tons of things, I'm out of ideas :P 19:16:42 GregorR-L: "distance to jupiter" infers "from earth" 19:16:43 that's a start 19:16:54 Yes, I've got all that, that's dull. 19:17:03 * ehird tries distance to jupiter 19:17:06 LOL 19:17:19 GregorR-L: "distance | from to Jupiter, Florida, United States" 19:17:19 err 19:17:23 * ehird tries distance to jupiter, 2007 to 2008 19:17:23 It is hard to get it to understand "distance to Jupiter" without it interpreting the distance part as "current distance from Earth". 19:17:24 that is 19:18:28 Hmm, "distance to jupiter 1999" works; "input interpretation: Jupiter | current distance from Earth | 1999" and "Result on Jan 1, 1999: 5.171 AU". 19:18:34 Hard to get plots out of it though. 19:18:51 * ehird asks distance+to+jupiter+2007+to+2008 19:18:56 Argh. 19:18:59 Tried that 19:19:01 {2007 distance | from to Jupiter,Florida,United States,2008 distance | from to Jupiter,Florida,United States} 19:19:15 Jupiter is in Florida? 19:19:23 distance to jupiter 2007, 2008 19:19:23 6.173 AU (astronomical units) | 2008 19:19:24 almost... 19:19:27 ais523: indeed! 19:19:33 "Distance to jupiter since 1900" gives the distance to Jupiter in 1900 from the town Since, Colombia 19:19:39 :-D 19:19:40 haha 19:20:15 6.173 AU (astronomical units) | 2008 19:20:18 er 19:20:20 distance to jupiter in 2007 and 2008 19:20:23 interprets and as logical and 19:20:52 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=distance+to+jupiter+in+2007%2C+distance+to+jupiter+in+2008 19:20:56 manual! 19:21:17 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=why+did+the+chicken+cross+the+road%3F 19:21:47 GregorR-L: wait, it plots functions 19:21:58 Yeah, I'm tring plot distance to Jupiter at time x 19:22:04 * ehird tries plot distance to jupiter x from x=1900 to 2008 19:22:05 Deewiant : kekeke 19:22:12 plot | Lysithea | current distance from Earth | x = 1900 to 2008 19:22:14 WHAT 19:22:38 * ehird tries with parens 19:22:41 plot (distance to jupiter in x) from x=1900 to 2008 19:22:43 not understood 19:22:44 butt 19:23:55 england to england works, england to england via australia doesn't :-( 19:24:28 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=england+to+jupiter+by+plane NOT FLORIDA AGAIN! 19:26:25 That doesn't make sense 19:26:32 Of course 19:26:34 There is no constant distance between the two 19:26:46 That's why we're plotting it over time. 19:26:55 Or trying to 19:27:18 7.8 hours? 19:27:26 That's a pretty good time for Jupiter 19:28:12 I really think this is entirely incapable of giving me the plot I want. 19:29:57 Also how do you even calculate the geodesic from England to Jupiter? 19:30:00 Straight line? 19:32:51 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=JFK+to+Newark+by+plane 19:32:56 145 seconds! INTOLERABLE 19:36:06 W|A can't figure out someone's lifespan 19:41:36 wtf 19:41:37 "age when john f kennedy died" works 19:41:41 without anything before it 19:41:48 ais523: W|A can infer more context than humans.. 19:41:49 . 20:03:44 So BTW, all the commands at the login screen work, they're just case sensitive (like it says they are) 20:16:02 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%28p+and+q%29+and+%28%28r+xor+%7Es%29+and+t%29%29+or+%28%7Ep+and+%7Et%29 20:16:09 most fucked up expression ever? 20:16:13 that venn diagram is fun 20:16:20 it's a butterfly, one of its wings is highilghted 20:16:22 *highlighted 20:28:32 145 seconds! INTOLERABLE <-- that seems way way too low 20:30:54 I challenge you all: 20:31:12 Find the Wolfram Alpha boolean expression giving the most hideously complex logic circuit you can. 20:31:15 ais523: GregorR-L: you're on. 20:31:26 Find the Wolfram Alpha boolean expression giving the most hideously complex logic circuit you can. <-- cool idea 20:32:24 AnMaster: erm, JFK and Newark are in the same city iirc 20:32:50 (that being new york) 20:32:55 oerjan, ah. Even so it doesn't make much sense since an aircraft can't reach top speed right away. 20:33:05 take off, landing and so on 20:33:12 you could easily do it in 145 seconds 20:33:14 in a rush 20:33:59 That isn't allowed though. There is this check list thing before you take off. And then you need to wait for take off/landing permissions and so on. 20:34:10 AnMaster: it's by plane 20:34:13 not by plane legally 20:34:19 or by plane according to standard regulations 20:34:44 AnMaster: oh, a rule for the competition: if there's a minimal form that gives a simpler logic circuit, you're out 20:34:45 ehird, even so, for so short distances the take off time is a significant portion of it 20:35:23 ehird, and you can't speed up to max speed that fast. Nor can you fly at the max speed at low level. Learn the difference between IAS, TAS and GS 20:35:52 ehird, I'm not entering that competition 20:36:08 k 20:38:39 ehird, what about (p and q) or (p and (not p or s) and (not r or q or (not q and t))) and (not t) though 20:39:08 though, the nand form may be easier 20:39:33 Sorry, Wolfram Alpha is temporarily unavailable. Please try again. 20:39:33 Error: DataPacletFilter: Unable to get Connection Too many connections 20:39:35 AnMaster: the (p&&q)||(p&&!r&&s&&!t) form of that has a simpler circuit 20:39:35 heh 20:39:46 the idea is to get an actual operation that's hard in a logic circuit 20:39:48 try using loads of variables 20:39:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:40:46 Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. 20:40:47 what 20:40:50 (p and q) or (p and (not p or s) and (not r or q or (not q and t))) and (not t) or (a and not (not b or c)) 20:40:53 it didn't like that 20:40:54 meh 20:40:55 AnMaster: "and not" 20:40:58 use ~ instead of not 20:40:59 and more parens 20:41:10 ehird, what do you mean "and not"? 20:41:10 AnMaster: btw, I win 20:41:12 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=a+or+b+nor+c+xor+d+nand+e+xor+f+and+g+or+e 20:41:16 arguably, that's cheating 20:41:21 AnMaster: from your thing: "or (a and not (not b or c))" 20:41:26 and not is probably tripping it up 20:41:33 ehird, why is that 20:41:38 because its parser sucks 20:41:45 ehird, and yes yours is cheating 20:41:55 let's say: only p to s 20:42:00 er, wait 20:42:03 p,q,r,s 20:42:03 right 20:42:05 ehird, I'm not going for it 20:42:13 boring 20:42:21 so boring that you attempted it 20:42:34 ehird, yes, and while doing that i found out it was boring 20:43:05 ehird, I fail to see what you mean with your comment above 20:43:16 what 20:43:22 sounds boring != is boring 20:43:27 you can't know without testing it 20:43:29 true 20:44:05 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=And%5BOr%5BNand%5Bp%2CXor%5Bq%2Cr%5D%5D%2Cs%5D%2Cp%5D 20:44:06 i win 20:45:24 what a weird shape for a Venn diagram 20:45:30 I'm not playing though 20:45:39 hey guys, AnMaster isn't playing 20:45:40 ais523, there is no such diagram there? 20:45:41 did you notice? 20:45:47 -!- cherez has joined. 20:45:54 ehird, so who did you win against 20:45:56 -!- cherez has left (?). 20:46:01 the world 20:46:02 AnMaster: there is, but not all the page will load if Alpha is busy 20:46:07 ais523, aha 20:46:23 there is no logic circuit either 20:46:27 for me 20:46:45 ais523, can you upload a screenshot 20:46:54 that would not be worth it 20:47:00 just try again when they are less busy 20:47:07 ais523, tried 5 times already 20:47:27 strangely they did not magically get less busy 20:48:04 fun fact: nand(p,xor(t,nor(p,t))) is nand(p,t) 20:50:58 ais523: how do you think I should ask it about the forall/implies logic? 20:51:11 I think it will fail 20:51:17 but I might be wrong 20:51:20 three progress bars slowly crossing 20:51:21 why 20:51:35 nothing at all apart from that now 20:51:58 FAQ: "Should I cite Wolfram|Alpha when I use results from it? Yes. For academic purposes, Wolfram|Alpha is a primary source." 20:52:03 20:51 kyevan: ehird: Eh, why? 20:52:04 20:51 kyevan: Also, ehird: SINE MISSES YOU 20:52:05 20:51 ehird: kyevan: Well, t'was done when Arc came out. I am become Haskell, destroyer of egos. 20:52:07 20:51 ehird: Also, aagh! 20:52:09 fizzie: hAhahaha 20:52:32 IDGI 20:52:44 AnMaster: which one 20:52:45 sine or fiz 20:52:49 sine 20:53:00 or rather 20:53:06 what you want "aagh" over 20:53:32 ehird, what channel btw 20:53:54 AnMaster: That was in #haskell, and if you don't know what Sine is, you could try asking someone who does. 20:54:07 ehird, I know what the sine function is 20:54:14 but I don't see the joke anyway 20:54:17 Nothing to do with that. 20:54:22 ehird, then what 20:54:37 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i={x|x+not+in+x} 20:54:42 Damn you Wolfram 20:54:47 Why won't you understand me 20:55:44 Slereah, isn't that Russell's paradox? 20:57:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Success). 20:57:13 Yes 20:58:17 why does wolfram alpha has a control room that is mentioned whenever it times out 20:58:27 AnMaster: why not? 20:58:33 it's a bunch of people looking at figures and laptops 20:58:35 live feed 20:58:44 ehird, it isn't like it is NASA. 20:58:53 AnMaster: do not underestimate Wolfram's ego. 20:59:00 Live feed? 20:59:04 ah yes, to him it *is* rocket science 20:59:07 Can they make an erotic dance? 21:01:45 ok: http://www4a.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP4883195gc302i3ag9ae1000057gfdb6c7cbg6h08?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=47 21:01:49 that is curious 21:01:57 I agree ais523 21:02:13 AnMaster: you agree with what? 21:02:22 ehird, that it is curious 21:02:33 "Boolean operator number" 21:02:35 hm 21:02:37 what is that 21:02:42 * AnMaster googles 21:02:56 No results found for "Boolean operator number". 21:02:57 AnMaster: wolfram's thing. 21:03:07 mostly it = the 1d cellular automata number 21:03:10 if it's simple enough 21:03:17 ehird, oh right, his fixation with numbers 21:03:21 or rather 21:03:25 with numbering things 21:03:29 Also no result for kolmogorov machine :( 21:03:38 Slereah, try google! 21:03:39 nor even turing machine 21:03:42 ehird: "If you are under age 18 you may use Wolfram|Alpha only if you have permission from a parent, legal guardian, or teacher." I assume you've taken care of this? 21:03:50 fizzie: Wow, now that's retarded. 21:03:53 err, how do they enforce that? 21:03:58 It's right there in the Terms of Use. 21:04:01 Let's just say I teach myself things and thus am a teacher of me. 21:04:07 what terms of use? 21:04:10 I have indeed given myself permission to use Wolfram Alpha. 21:04:13 AnMaster: "Wolfram|Alpha" 21:04:15 If you continue to use it, you're assuring them you're either 18 or have the required permissions. 21:04:25 ehird, yes, but where is the hidden link 21:04:46 ehird : Are you your own parent? 21:04:49 AnMaster: It's at least in the FAQ. 21:04:58 (The link, that is.) 21:05:05 "These terms are a contract you have to agree to before using the Wolfram|Alpha service. " 21:05:10 Also why the 18+ limit? 21:05:12 how can they manage that, if most people never read them? 21:05:16 they don't even have a clickthrough 21:05:23 and because people below 18 can't legally agree to contracts 21:05:44 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=porn 21:05:45 There's also a terms of use link at the bottom of the front page, though it's not very visible. 21:05:55 It does link to "child pornography" rather quickly 21:06:31 Haha, the continuation of that part is even better. 21:06:35 "By using the service you are telling us either that you are over age 18 and legally able to form contracts, or that an adult with authority to act on your behalf has agreed to these terms and to be responsible for ensuring your compliance with them in your use of the service and any results you obtain from it. If you don't want to be bound by these terms, do not use the service or its results. However, you may want to consider one of our paid subs 21:06:36 cription options, which offer modified terms of use that may be more desirable to you." 21:06:46 "If you're not old enough, you can just pay us." 21:07:07 ais523, I only found out that google had terms of use after several years of using it 21:07:10 too hidden as well 21:07:43 "If you make results from Wolfram|Alpha available to anyone else, or incorporate those results into your own documents or presentations, you must include attribution indicating that the results and/or the presentation of the results came from Wolfram|Alpha." 21:07:50 ais523: :_D 21:07:51 oh no, they have the odious Mathematica advertising clause in Alpha too 21:07:51 :-D 21:08:01 ais523, what is that clause 21:08:31 ehird: Besides, your little competition might have violated the terms too. "Any attempt to use a robot, script, or *organized group of humans* [emphasis mine] to repeatedly access Wolfram|Alpha -- is strictly forbidden." 21:08:39 fizzie: :-D 21:08:42 Maybe we're too disorganized to count, though. 21:08:53 "The specific images, such as plots, typeset formulas, and tables, as well as the general page layouts, are all copyrighted by Wolfram|Alpha at the time Wolfram|Alpha generates them." <--- is that even legal? 21:09:11 ais523, it can't be. 21:09:18 ais523: If Wolfram|Alpha is sentient, why not? :p 21:09:27 ais523, where is the advert clause you mentioned 21:09:31 I can't find what you mean 21:09:42 second para of "Attribution and Licensing" 21:10:52 A list of suggested citation styles and icons is available here. 21:10:54 "If any provision of the Terms of Use is held to be invalid or unenforceable, such provision shall be deemed superseded by a valid enforceable provision that most closely matches the intent of the original provision, and the remaining provisions shall continue in full force and effect." 21:10:54 great 21:11:15 wtf, their lawyers have taken the standard severability clause much further 21:11:25 if the contract is invalid, it rewrites itself so that it's valid 21:11:31 that's a lot more ridiculous than just severability 21:11:44 ais523: HHAHAHA 21:12:37 "Spidering, data-mining, scraping, or probing Wolfram|Alpha, or otherwise attempting to abuse the service, is not only a violation of these terms but may also constitute violation of federal and state laws concerning unauthorized access to computer systems." 21:12:38 um 21:12:42 and they have no robots.txt 21:12:47 hilarious 21:12:51 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:12:52 they should sue Google 21:13:10 ais523, who will just say "use robots.txt" 21:13:43 You are also not permitted to stick frames around Wolfram|Alpha (no matter how clearly you point out that it's not part of your site or any such thing) without their express permission. 21:13:56 they're trying to ban all sorts of things 21:13:57 fizzie, I don't see why I should it 21:14:05 that clearly wouldn't work as an EULA, but they're trying to make it work as a contract 21:14:07 I don't want their messy web page 21:14:09 without any explicit way to agree to it 21:14:17 ais523, that doesn't work 21:14:24 "These terms are a contract you have to agree to before using the Wolfram|Alpha service." <-- factually incorrect 21:14:34 because clearly, lots of people have used it without reading them 21:14:37 yep 21:14:47 and I'm not going to use it again. 21:14:58 err, why not? 21:15:01 apart from it sucking 21:15:10 ehird, read above? 21:15:19 21:14 ais523: "These terms are a contract you have to agree to before using the Wolfram|Alpha service." <-- factually incorrect 21:15:21 therefore, they don't apply 21:15:24 last I looked google's TOS was at least unusually sane. 21:15:39 though that was a few years ago 21:15:44 ehird: I suspect their lawyers have gone mad 21:15:57 Well, Google has a cached copy of http://www.wolframalpha.com/ so I'm sure they've violated at least some of them. It's been automagically crawled, for one thing, and the cached copy is "surrounding" it with some own material. 21:16:02 yes 21:16:35 someone should report this to wolfram alpha just to see how they react when they realise what happened. 21:16:37 or to google 21:16:43 better do it to google 21:17:05 because then wolfram alpha might get mad when it isn't listed in google any more 21:17:14 hilarity ensues (sp?). 21:17:28 in fact en*sue*s 21:19:52 ennnnnnnnsus 21:20:25 Haha, a green. 21:37:18 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 21:44:54 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 21:45:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:46:25 -!- calamari has joined. 21:46:59 wolfram alpha is kind of lam. 21:47:01 lame, even. 21:48:15 -!- calamari has left (?). 21:48:17 it's kind of lamb 21:59:22 lamb is so tasty 21:59:24 but veal is not 22:09:19 especially with garlic! 22:09:34 99% of all food can only be improved by adding more garlic 22:10:06 99% of all food can only be improved by adding more garlic 22:10:15 the remaining 1% hm... Well gralic icecream... It is a chance in a million, but it might just work! 22:10:19 somehow, I'm surprised you have that opinion 22:10:23 you in particular, that is 22:10:30 s/opinion/onion/ 22:10:30 I've eaten garlic ice cream. 22:10:31 It's good. 22:10:37 and 100% of all food can only be improved by adding more bacon 22:10:37 GregorR, interesting 22:10:43 additionally, 100% of all food can only be improved by adding more chocolat 22:10:44 e 22:10:45 ais523, that I love garlic? 22:10:50 The only thing that can't be improved by adding garlic is those things that have already had too much garlic added :P 22:10:56 and in case you think that's contradictory: 22:10:58 it's my religion. 22:11:02 ehird, Dark chocolate? 22:11:06 Like no suggar 22:11:15 sugar* 22:11:36 AnMaster: Why, chocolate is chocolate; even the foulest of chocolates is an improvement— white "chocolate", of course, not counting as chocolate— and beyond that it is up to your own tastes. 22:11:37 That's some awfully dark dark chocolate :P 22:11:41 or the more common milk chocolate 22:11:43 Dark chocolate means no milk. 22:11:53 Bittersweet chocolate means no milk, little sugar. 22:11:57 Baker's chocolate means no sugar. 22:11:58 Bacon, however... 22:12:10 People who strip the fat of bacon are evil agents of the End Times. 22:12:12 white "chocolate" > brown chocolate 22:12:14 *off 22:12:14 IMO 22:12:17 Also, milk chocolate is garbage. 22:12:21 And white chocolate is megagarbage. 22:12:23 People who strip the fat of bacon are evil agents of the End Times. <-- I hate fat bacon 22:12:29 And dark chocolate is dark bliss. 22:12:35 AnMaster: Dude, it's just yuck without the fat. 22:12:36 And bittersweet chocolate is even better. 22:12:46 GregorR-L: I have some 80% chocolate 22:12:47 GregorR, too dark chocolate tastes foul IMO 22:12:49 It is quite awful 22:12:51 Well 22:12:54 It's not awful 22:12:55 god 22:12:58 It just doesn't taste like chocolate 22:13:00 GregorR, a healthy dose of sugar is needed! 22:13:03 wolfram alpha must either have some very interesting AI 22:13:03 ehird: 80% is awesome! 22:13:05 You can buy 100% chocolate; I would like some. 22:13:14 ehird: 100% is baker's chocolate, it's terrible. 22:13:21 ehird, don't eat it. I tried it. 22:13:23 once 22:13:23 or some very VERY laboriously laid out data and query interpretation 22:13:30 GregorR-L: Not that 100% 22:13:31 ehird: 80% is the peak for me. Beyond that it gets worse in either direction. 22:13:39 You can buy 100% from Lindt for human consumption. 22:13:43 Or is it 99%? 22:13:45 GregorR, probably 60% for me. 22:13:46 Whatever, that sort of number. 22:13:47 It's 99% 22:13:52 Yeah. 22:13:54 I've had that :P 22:13:55 I wanna try it. 22:14:00 From Gherrideli (sp) too. 22:14:01 I haven't tried it. 22:14:03 I hear that it's totally different to chocolate. 22:14:03 It's not great :P 22:14:11 As in, it's more a sort of spicy flavour than a chocolatey one 22:14:20 It's not awful It just doesn't taste like chocolate 22:14:24 for white chocolate 22:14:25 agreed. 22:14:38 quite good. 22:14:47 anyway nougat rules them all 22:15:24 the light brown kind of nougat 22:16:37 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 22:17:25 http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Nougat_sweets.jpg <-- that looks tastey 22:18:19 brb 22:18:39 ais523, and why are you surprised that I like garlic. 22:19:03 -!- ineiros has quit ("leaving"). 22:19:21 AnMaster: a huge preference for one particular food sounds more like oklopol or ehird than you 22:19:24 -!- ineiros_ has changed nick to ineiros. 22:19:36 ais523, you know "autocondimentor"? From TP. 22:20:12 ais523, I'm not *quite* that, but I tend to add garlic flavoured herb salt (I don't know if it is called that in English) to most meals. 22:20:39 We just say "garlic salt", but it's probably the same. 22:20:48 GregorR, it has more than just garlic in it 22:20:54 lots of other herbs too 22:21:06 There are lots of garlic salts with more than just garlic :P 22:21:11 that is, unless I have fresh herbs at home here. 22:21:17 GregorR, what about garlic salts without garlic 22:21:23 I have such herb salts here 22:21:32 Seasoning salt. 22:21:43 so lets call it seasoning salt with herbs? 22:21:46 err 22:21:48 with garlic 22:21:54 btw: also black pepper if it is pasta of course 22:21:55 Sure :P 22:22:03 oh and soya if it is rice or rice-like 22:22:12 I put seasoning salt on popcorn. It's yummy. 22:22:19 I don't like popcorn 22:22:21 anmaster: garlic is delicious. 22:22:27 i just feel like agreeing with you there 22:22:40 * GregorR-L grounds garlic into psygnisfive's very SOUL 22:22:46 psygnisfive, I had some raw garlic just half an hour ago. Was very nice 22:22:46 grinds* 22:22:56 Yes, grinds :P 22:23:03 ooh me too! 22:23:05 ;P 22:24:15 anmaster: 1 head of garlic, minus the easily removed outer skin. cut the tips of the cloves off and coat lightly with olive oil. sprinkle on to it oregano, wrap in tin foil, and bake for 45 minutes to an hour at 400 degrees. 22:24:17 mmm delicious 22:24:41 sounces nice yes 22:24:44 sounds* 22:24:49 can you skip the olive oil? 22:24:53 no, you really shouldnt 22:24:56 meh 22:25:04 the garlic comes out soft and sweet 22:25:07 I don't like olive oil really 22:25:17 thats ok, you really dont eat much of it 22:25:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:25:38 psygnisfive, plus, I don't have any more fresh garlic at home. 22:25:39 you turn the garlic upside down and squeeze and the cloves slide right out of the skin 22:26:14 if you cooked it long enough for the cloves to be REALLY soft, theyre sort of squish out, but either way, the oil is mostly on the skin anyway. 22:26:27 its there to like... conduct heat, or something, really. 22:26:41 the garlic comes out soft and sweet <-- garlic shouldn't be sweet. If I wanted sweet I would go for sugar 22:26:43 and you dont cover the whole thing in oil, its just mostly the top bits 22:26:48 oh no, anmaster, trust me 22:26:51 its a good sweet 22:26:55 not sugary 22:27:00 its delicious, just try it 22:27:02 kay 22:27:06 if I remember it 22:27:12 when I have more fresh garlic 22:27:18 and it isn't midnight almost 22:27:25 its pretty simple.im sure you can get close by just baking a whole head of garlic 22:27:50 you jsut have to cut off the tops of the cloves before you do, otherwise itll be impossible to get the garlic out 22:28:08 psygnisfive, I only have dried garlic at home currently 22:28:09 no fresh 22:28:13 I told you above 22:28:14 eugh 22:28:27 go buy some garlic, jesus. 22:28:51 psygnisfive, Um. It should be up next week (green house) 22:29:08 the first ones 22:29:13 what? 22:29:26 psygnisfive, you "grow" food when possible. Not "buy" it. 22:29:27 ... 22:29:37 better for the environment. Less transports. 22:29:46 well, sure, but you cant "grow" yourself some garlic to cook today, can you? 22:29:47 :P 22:30:03 psygnisfive, no. Because it is half an hour to midnight. All shops are closed too. 22:30:12 lame. 22:30:22 Plus. I just ate. 22:30:23 duh 22:30:30 psygnisfive, and what is lame. 22:30:40 your grocery stores not being open 24 hours 22:30:58 psygnisfive, and you said bake for 45 minutes. By that time it won't be today any more 22:31:02 thus I can't do it today 22:31:05 DUH 22:31:24 do not make me bust out the lexical semantics on you. 22:31:34 the what? 22:31:39 LEXICAL SEMANTICS, FOOL 22:31:48 You mean FOO' 22:31:58 if i meant foo' i would've typed bar' 22:32:00 plus I could just /ignore you if it was too annoying linqustics stuff 22:32:08 psygnisfive, and why should shops be open 24h 22:32:22 anmaster: because then you could go get garlic! 22:32:23 duh. 22:32:46 I pity the FOO 22:32:56 psygnisfive, that is a major stress causing factor for those who work there. It is better for humans to be awake during day than night. Various biological reasons for it. 22:33:07 Slereah, that meme is way way way outdated. 22:33:11 more than AYB even 22:33:14 anmaster: tell that to my body 22:33:27 psygnisfive, ? 22:33:36 or to the 50% of the population that is biologically predisposed to being awake at night 22:33:41 as recent studies have found! 22:33:46 psygnisfive, And I have garlic flavoured bread at home. 22:33:57 totally not the same 22:34:07 psygnisfive, very true 22:34:39 but im just being a garlic whore. 22:35:07 or maybe a garlic hoare, given the company i keep here 22:35:52 what? 22:35:56 what is the joke 22:36:08 -!- psygnisfive has changed nick to CARHoare. 22:36:17 who cares about garlic, look at this medal i have! http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/thoare/tony2.jpg 22:36:21 -!- CARHoare has changed nick to psygnisfive. 22:36:22 what 22:36:28 CARHoare? 22:36:30 IDGI 22:36:44 wait, you work for MS? 22:37:00 and that can't be you 22:37:02 CARHoare does! 22:37:11 what 22:37:17 you totally confused me 22:37:17 C. A. R. Hoare 22:37:28 Sir Charles Antony Richard Hoare 22:37:35 I hear what you say 22:37:40 ok 22:37:42 that name doesn't mean anything to me though 22:37:43 ... 22:37:48 hoare logic 22:37:55 * AnMaster googles 22:38:04 a logic for imperative languages. 22:38:12 Men 22:38:15 Meh* 22:38:21 psygnisfive, and what has that got do with you 22:38:25 nothing 22:38:31 i said i was being a garlic whore 22:38:33 In such cases, one uses wiki, not google 22:38:37 or maybe a garlic hoare, given the company i keep here 22:38:48 then i made a pun based on the name "hoare", which is said the same as "whore" 22:39:18 "C.A.R. Hoare, is a British computer scientist, probably best known for the development in 1960 of Quicksort (or Hoaresort)" 22:39:20 Interesting 22:39:58 wow 22:40:01 that is interesting 22:40:06 I assume we're not calling it "Hoaresort" nowadays due to the pronunciation-based misambiguatities. 22:40:12 Heh 22:40:14 haha 22:40:22 horse oort! 22:42:49 back 22:43:18 front 22:43:32 up 22:45:56 22:29 AnMaster: better for the environment. Less transports. ← yeah walking is like the devil 22:45:58 22:32 AnMaster: psygnisfive, that is a major stress causing factor for those who work there. It is better for humans to be awake during day than night. Various biological reasons for it. 22:46:01 you're full of shit 22:46:15 ehird let it go, hes silly. 22:46:28 psygnisfive: try dealing with him on a daily basis before saying that :) 22:47:02 all the more reason you should let it go! 22:47:17 i plead insanity 22:49:10 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:50:49 ehird, um... How do you think it got to the store 22:51:00 ehird, probably by truck 22:51:13 AnMaster: guess what? it's in the store whether you buy it or not 22:51:29 unless you think that you, as a tiny meaningless statistical factor, could cause pressure to ship more garlic in any meaningful way 22:51:39 which is ridiculously egotistical 22:51:59 ehird, don't vote. you are a tiny meaningless statistical factor. What you vote for won't change anything, 22:52:02 s/,/./ 22:52:41 AnMaster: You've brought up that bullshit before. 22:52:44 I've rebutted it before. 22:52:45 Next, please. 22:52:51 ehird, it is the same concept. 22:53:14 I'm sure it is in AnMaster-land 22:53:28 and yes I think not voting is bull shit too. But I'm just extrapolating from your own opinions. 22:54:33 …where by "extrapolating" you mean "making shit up". 22:54:39 no. 22:54:47 I've done things to affect statistics before 22:54:49 And asserting things 22:55:13 ais523, And I try to tell other people about it, so they do the same thing. 22:55:24 Plus of course home grown tends to taste better. 22:55:34 you grow your own garlic? 22:56:02 ais523, not as much me as having a mom how is a gardening geek. 22:56:02 ais523: as far as I can tell, he views going to a store as a blot on his very soul 22:56:15 oh 22:56:27 but yes I tend to prefer home grown and home made food 22:56:28 in that case, why does he think he has a statistical effect on the store 22:56:31 because he doesn't go there? 22:56:42 usually it tastes better. 22:57:37 less artificial flavour from flavour enhancers and so on... 22:57:54 ais523: by consciously thinking about not going to the store, he telepathically is "not there", as a positive instead of just not "there" 22:58:08 thus influencing statisticsa 22:58:11 *statistics 22:58:15 ehird, what the hell do you mean. 22:58:20 you are full of bull shit 22:58:25 AnMaster: it's what I'd like to know myself! 22:58:43 AnMaster: By the way, it's "bullshit" 22:58:47 ehird: well, I've refused to buy things because they're too expensive before 22:58:56 ehird, sounds like you are trying a straw man argument... 22:58:57 good job! 22:58:58 ais523: I don't see how that's relevant 22:59:02 normally I spend the money at a competitor of the people who were charging too much 22:59:10 AnMaster: it's what you call "extrapolating from your behaviour" 22:59:13 so that probably does put some sort of small pressure on 22:59:26 which is, yes, a strawman argument 22:59:39 ehird, then in your case you couldn't explain the difference though. 22:59:45 night all! 22:59:52 you haven't explained the difference yourself 22:59:58 ehird, between what? 23:00:09 hmm... it seems Norway are getting a runaway win on Eurovision 23:00:13 with the largest score ever 23:00:15 "extrapolating from your behaviour" voodoo jumps to conclusions VS strawman 23:00:23 ais523: what did you do wrong? 23:00:33 ais523, why are you watching eurovision? 23:00:34 (I'm trying to figure out what you're being punished for) 23:00:42 AnMaster: I said that far more classily :| 23:00:50 ehird, yeah you did 23:01:01 oh, I find modern music so bad anyway that Eurovision isn't any worse by comparison 23:01:08 ehird, seems we agree on something for once. That ais523 disagree with us on 23:01:11 Oh. 23:01:12 My. 23:01:17 ais523: oh, I don't know 23:01:22 only it was incredibly bad this year 23:01:24 as in, even worse than normal 23:01:32 ais523, what about the Swedish one 23:01:38 as an example of just how bad the competition is, the UK are curretnly fourth 23:01:40 ais523: if pop is like a plastic facade of music, eurovision is like the silicone version 23:01:42 and Sweden's fourth-last 23:01:49 huh 23:02:04 ais523, I actually thought the Swedish one was good when I heard it on radio recently 23:02:15 it was like pop + opera 23:02:19 ais523: No more 'Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input'. Wolfram|Beta knows the answer to ALL your questions! 23:02:24 ais523: http://www.wolframsbeta.com/ 23:02:31 the performer is in fact a opera singer for her day-to-day job 23:02:33 ehird: heh, already? 23:02:36 before I click on that, what is it? 23:02:45 ais523: it's like Wolfram|Alpha, except it knows the answer to everything 23:02:51 (no shock sites or anything.) 23:02:53 does it always answer 42? 23:02:59 dammit! 23:02:59 or use Google? 23:03:05 haha 23:03:10 ais523: well, it also asks its mom for washing, and reads 4chan, while calculating 42 23:03:24 it's sort of like the nutri-matic machine, except the thing it always gives is better than the truth 23:03:28 um 23:03:44 it also reads digg 23:03:44 ais523: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8kz97/no_more_wolframalpha_isnt_sure_what_to_do_with/c09mbiq 23:03:45 it said 23:03:45 hahah 23:03:50 AnMaster: yes, I was just giving a sample 23:03:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:04:03 23:04:11 AnMaster: google analytics, what's your point 23:04:12 why do you see that in almost every page 23:04:19 ehird: you should post Alpha's terms-of-use contract to reddit 23:04:22 AnMaster: it collates browser statistics etc 23:04:26 with a suitably scary headline 23:04:31 AnMaster: for graphing and stuff by the webmaster 23:04:32 ehird, ok, and why do you want to give that to google 23:04:40 AnMaster: google doesn't read it 23:04:42 the site owner does 23:04:43 rather than just use webalizer or analog or whatever 23:04:53 because that requires a web server setup, has a klunky UI, .. 23:05:04 AnMaster: it's no more dangerous information than a logfile 23:05:09 ehird, NEWS NEWS 23:05:15 browsers don't go around giving just anyone important info... 23:05:17 AnMaster: what? 23:05:28 ehird, All web pages "requires a web server setup". 23:05:33 maybe you didn't know that! 23:05:36 AnMaster: you're a retard. 23:05:41 try and set up webalizer sometime 23:05:44 then set up google analytics 23:05:48 ehird, I did last month 23:05:54 took, uh 5 minutes? 23:06:00 but I prefer analog 23:06:03 protip: google analytics consists of pressing a button and adding it to the bottom of your footer template 23:06:12 as a bonus, it has a better UI 23:06:28 ehird, but it will only work if the client has javascript turned on 23:06:40 AnMaster: guess what almost every web browser in the modern world has turned on? 23:06:51 javascript 23:07:02 yes, I know you use Noscript. Yes, you too, oh, and you! 23:07:06 So that's about 0% 23:07:16 actually, javascript-off use is increasing a lot 23:07:18 sure. But you underestimate how popular extensions like noscript is 23:07:27 and remember, crawlers scrape without javascript 23:07:33 I'd say that's a bigger factor than javascript 23:07:38 *noscript 23:07:39 ais523: To about 0.5%, perhaps. And that's okay, because analytics don't matter for crawlers. 23:07:39 yeah 23:07:46 It's to measure what humans are visiting your site. 23:07:59 ehird, I'm interested to see if I have been crawled too 23:08:06 Just FYI 23:08:08 well, I deliberately block analytics scripts 23:08:13 AnMaster: you still have logfiles 23:08:15 even more so than the general blocking of JS 23:08:15 ais523, same here 23:08:25 http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp says 5 % off. 23:08:28 ehird, Um yes duh? 23:08:28 ais523: unfortunately you cannot block apache/access.log 23:08:30 as in, I never let them in even when I unblock a site, and I have NoScript set to put them in a separate menu 23:08:31 fizzie: that's w3schools 23:08:34 fizzie: guess who their audience is? 23:08:35 I don't mind access.log 23:08:36 technical people! 23:08:37 fizzie, that is interesting 23:08:44 AnMaster: it's meaningless 23:08:48 ehird, and. What audience do you think I have. 23:08:51 w3schools has reported firefox as wildly popular since forever 23:08:52 it's third-party analytics scripts that annoy me, why don't they just use their server logs? 23:08:52 Technical. 23:08:54 Duh! 23:08:57 AnMaster: so don't bloody use it 23:09:08 AnMaster: reddit requires javascript, it has a bunch of technical people 23:09:16 how many people do you think it's lost due to requiring JS everywhere? 23:09:21 i'd say a few thousand 23:09:21 it's third-party analytics scripts that annoy me, why don't they just use their server logs? <-- that is what I'm arguing for too! 23:09:30 ais523: because these give more detail? 23:09:37 ehird, I turn it on for those sites I'm interested in. 23:09:41 well, I don't like them trying to track me across sites easily 23:09:52 ais523, same 23:09:54 ais523: that's okay because they can't. 23:10:04 I wonder why I argue with the two people who never change their minds 23:10:08 I must be fucking bonkers 23:10:10 which two? 23:10:14 I change my mind about some things 23:10:16 just not others 23:10:23 also, I agree with ehird sometimes, and AnMaster sometimes 23:10:35 it's rare enough that angels go by my window singing a heavenly song everytime it happens 23:10:54 Okay, thecounter.com statistics (which shouldn't be *that* technically-oriented) for April 2009 is 6% no-Javascript: http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2009/April/javas.php 23:10:57 wolframbeta: What is the question to life, universe and everything? 42 23:11:00 that is WRONG! 23:11:02 :((((((( 23:11:09 or 23:11:10 hm 23:11:14 Symetrical: 23:11:16 AnMaster: it cannot possibly be wrong 23:11:19 by definition 23:11:20 42? 42 23:11:32 ehird, yes, the universe would have ended if it was right! 23:11:48 i mean wolframbeta 23:12:06 I wonder why I argue with the two people who never change their minds 23:12:19 23:12 AnMaster: I wonder why I argue with the two people who never change their minds 23:12:25 I wonder why I argue with the one person who never change his mind 23:12:25 ... 23:12:34 AnMaster: you never change your grammar either 23:12:54 ehird, and what does that have to do with this 23:13:05 nothing 23:13:50 interesting name for a movement: "Andante di molto - Allegro" 23:13:55 both in one? 23:15:37 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 23:16:46 lovely music though 23:38:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:39:06 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)").