00:00:01 so not attuned to makefile-and-.o ways 00:00:06 ehird, do you trust Intel to get it right 00:00:06 "linux compilation file for unix"; fix that 00:00:12 Let me just state two examples: 00:00:16 FDIV FOOF 00:00:26 AnMaster: because intel are the only company that makes mistakes 00:00:29 * oerjan put links to his BCT interpreter in /// on the wiki 00:00:32 want me to dig up a bunch of AMD gaffs? 00:00:39 ehird, of course AMD made ones too 00:00:42 I'm not saying that 00:00:54 I'm just saying I don't trust Intel to get it right. Nor AMD 00:01:05 as long as it has a power supply I can yank out 00:01:13 clearly yudkowsky was not properly involved <-- and after googling I don't understand the reference 00:01:25 ah wait 00:01:27 Eliezer Yudkowsky, Research Fellow at the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence. 00:01:29 typoed it 00:01:31 that is why 00:01:34 "Net income▼ $ -3.098 billion (2008) " — [[AMD]] 00:01:35 Ouch 00:01:36 managed to hit backspace 00:02:01 ehird, Net income ▼ US$5.3 billion (2008) - [[Intel]] 00:02:02 OUCH 00:02:07 even more so 00:02:16 errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 00:02:18 unless I misread the numbers 00:02:24 aren't the arrow down == loss 00:02:34 AnMaster: Intel get $5.3 billion. AMD lose $3 billion. 00:02:38 Note the "-". 00:02:41 And down arrow = down from last year. 00:02:42 ehird, ah 00:02:58 So AMD's losing $3bn, Intel's gaining $5.3bn 00:02:58 AnMaster: :P 00:03:03 Not very ouch at all. 00:03:05 hm 00:03:07 yes 00:03:11 that is even more ouch 00:03:12 but 00:03:17 EU sued them 00:03:23 Intel that is 00:03:26 AnMaster: yes, that just dropped it a billion or so 00:03:29 still profiting quite a bit 00:04:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#European_Union 00:04:23 you shouldn't support Intel 00:04:32 AnMaster: I am well aware of the fine. 00:04:34 And whyever not? 00:04:43 They make good products, I buy the products; I get my nice processor, they get money. 00:04:49 ehird, support suspect marketing tactics? 00:04:57 how fun 00:05:05 AnMaster: did you buy your microsoft keyboard/mouse? 00:05:12 Why are you supporting their suspect marketing tactics? 00:05:16 HOW FUN!11128126738213 00:05:22 ehird, I don't have a Microsoft keyboard 00:05:26 mouse, then 00:05:29 I forgot which 00:05:36 ehird, and no, I got it as a present 00:05:46 so you'd refuse to buy it 00:05:46 heh 00:06:37 ehird, I'd probably test other ones first... But if it was the only one that worked ergonomically I'd probably use it 00:06:53 So you'd buy a product from Microsoft, giving them money, "supporting suspect marketing tactics". 00:07:01 And this does not make you a hypocrite how? 00:07:54 ehird, I wouldn't buy an OS or a CPU though. Anyway I happen to know some Logitech mice are quite nice 00:08:03 so the issue wouldn't arise 00:08:12 but if it did I would indeed be in a tricky dilemma 00:08:18 CPUs are a magical thing. They're entirely different to mice in the context of a market, because *~SPARKLES!~* 00:08:20 gah 00:08:28 i can't find documentation of sse functions for gcc 00:08:45 ehird, yeah... And AMD ones work very well in my experience. 00:09:07 AnMaster: So you seriously think that somehow, buying a CPU supports shady marketing, but buying a mouse doesn't, even though they both feed back into the company profits. 00:09:19 You, sir, are on crack, and only attempting to justify how you would behave while criticizing me because you don't like the company. 00:09:52 ehird, I certainly think both do 00:10:08 AnMaster: But one is acceptable support of shady marketing practices? 00:10:14 ehird, no it isn't really 00:10:20 Shovel, meet AnMaster. Hole, meet shovel. Dig, dig, dig. 00:10:23 ehird, but when there are no alternatives left that work... 00:10:34 AnMaster: There is no AMD processor that can match the performance of an i7. 00:10:36 you are sometimes forced to take the least bad action 00:10:44 Therefore, there is no alternative left that even exists. 00:10:46 ehird, then ask yourself: do you actually need that peformance 00:10:53 performance* 00:10:56 AnMaster: I do not need anything but food, water, warmth, ... 00:11:10 But what would I *like*? Yes, I'd like that performance. 00:11:11 ehird, how much power does an i7 use btw 00:11:20 green computing and so on 00:11:23 I think that the EU fine is enough punishment for Intel. 00:11:42 AnMaster: At maximum, around ~380 watts. At idle, about 100 watts. 00:11:46 Not much. 00:11:56 By the way, AnMaster? The Phenoms (AMD's high-end processors) suck up a ton of power. 00:11:58 ehird, more than this sempron 00:12:02 The i7s use way less juice. 00:12:13 AnMaster: not just the processor 00:12:15 that is the whole system 00:12:26 the whole processor is 140W at absolutely maximum load, I believe. 00:12:53 -!- Dewi has joined. 00:12:54 Compared to the Phenoms, it's so green your red and blue subpixels will stop functioning. 00:13:14 ehird, same. I used one of those watt meter thingies on my system some time ago. When idle with ondemand CPU scheduler it was about 88-91W 00:13:29 (varied a bit) 00:13:37 AnMaster: So... it's about as green as your low end CPU. 00:13:38 was about 2 years ago I measured 00:13:40 I think that's just fine. 00:14:16 nooga: Why didn't you hardcode the standard raytracing example? 00:14:27 ehird, one reason is old PSU 00:14:33 way from the 80+ 00:14:45 ehird: ah, it's WIP 00:14:50 i left that code 00:14:55 AnMaster: Well, your system is still only a few dozens of watts less than mine at idle. 00:15:00 And I'm using an 80+ efficient CPU, etc. 00:15:10 (This is hypothetical; I cba to actually measure it when I get it.) 00:15:17 i planned to make a raytracer with multisampling, reflections etc. and write a scene compiler in sadol 00:15:19 (But I think I'm approximately on mark.) 00:15:26 nooga, do it! 00:15:27 :D 00:15:29 brb 00:15:45 or maybe... monte-carlo path tracer ;D 00:15:48 radiosity etc 00:16:15 but after i finish my sadol compiler 00:16:48 brb 00:16:58 -!- nooga has quit ("Leaving..."). 00:17:17 AnMaster: Do you think techniques applied to BF compilation could be applied to underload / unlambad? 00:17:19 *unlambda 00:18:01 ehird, don't know enough about them to be sure 00:18:08 a few maybe 00:18:16 define them 00:18:35 stuff like constant folding and dead code elimination is pretty general 00:18:42 well yeah 00:19:05 stuff like balanced loops and such: well I don't know enough about ul and ul to be sure 00:19:13 err 00:19:25 two letter acronym collision 00:19:46 I'll resume the discussion once you worked out better acronyms! 00:19:47 brb 00:20:15 AnMaster: ul = unlambda 00:20:17 unl = underload 00:20:19 or no wait 00:20:21 ul = underload 00:20:23 unl = unlambda 00:20:25 oerjan: which way around? 00:20:30 i forget 00:21:34 ^ul (S)S 00:21:34 S 00:21:37 that is ul to me 00:22:05 ehird, and I really don't know unl well enough to know what you could do in it 00:22:20 let's say UL then 00:22:22 it's quite similar to bf 00:22:24 ul, well I don't know either exactly what would work 00:22:35 ehird, ul UL? 00:22:43 uh 00:22:52 so UL = unl? and ul = ul 00:23:00 that is confusing 00:23:01 let's say underload then 00:23:04 ah 00:23:07 it's quite similar to bf 00:23:08 hm 00:23:18 AnMaster: you can do a bit 00:23:18 for instance 00:23:22 (a)(b)~* 00:23:23 → 00:23:24 (ba) 00:23:27 ehird, maybe. But a lot of the stuff in bf optimising is "figure out where the damn pointer is" 00:23:28 but nobody would write code like that 00:23:44 AnMaster: in this case, it'd be "figure out how large the damn stack i" 00:23:44 s 00:23:55 well you could try to track that 00:24:00 as far as it is possible 00:24:09 possibly relative some prior point 00:24:09 mm 00:24:16 if you don't know since start 00:24:31 like you lost track after something that you can't easily decide 00:24:38 yes 00:24:39 which for bf would be unbalanced loop 00:24:44 not sure what it would be for ul 00:24:50 AnMaster: pushing more than you pop 00:24:59 ~ pops 1 (since it combines two elements) 00:25:05 ! pops 1 00:25:06 like (1)(2) ? 00:25:08 : pops -1 00:25:11 (a) pops -1 00:25:18 ^ pops 1 00:25:20 S pops one 00:25:21 er wait 00:25:22 ~ swaps 00:25:25 ~ pops 0 00:25:26 yeah 00:25:30 * pops 1, and combines 00:25:31 -!- Dewio has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 00:25:31 pops 0? 00:25:37 AnMaster: ~ swaps top two elements 00:25:40 so no stack change 00:25:41 ah 00:25:54 ehird, is there anywhere you can't easily figure out the stack sise 00:25:55 size* 00:25:58 I assume it must be 00:26:02 AnMaster: yes -- ^ 00:26:04 since it is TC 00:26:04 you can do, for instance: 00:26:10 ehird, you can know it sometimes for ^ 00:26:12 ((x)):*^ 00:26:15 which executes 00:26:16 (x)(x) 00:26:18 and thus pops -2 00:26:23 but you can infer that too 00:26:28 yeah 00:26:32 in fact, I'm not sure you can ever not infer it 00:26:40 which is nice 00:26:44 I might write an inferrer to see 00:26:49 ehird, are there cases you can't infer 00:26:50 and 00:26:54 AnMaster: i'm wondering 00:26:55 I think not 00:26:58 when does this cross the line to compiler 00:27:02 err 00:27:03 interpreter 00:27:11 with compiling to a "output constant string" 00:27:18 AnMaster: well, you'd never actually loop 00:27:22 to infer the stack effect 00:27:34 AnMaster: this wouldn't work if underload had user input, BTW 00:27:36 but it doesn't 00:27:53 what about that infinite loop 00:27:58 AnMaster: (:^):^ 00:28:00 you can't possibly infer there 00:28:01 right? 00:28:03 I mean 00:28:06 the stack growing one 00:28:12 exponential 00:28:51 -!- nooga has joined. 00:28:52 meh 00:28:57 don't remember that 00:28:57 AnMaster: no, you can: 00:29:04 hem 00:29:15 ehird: it is easy to push an amount corresponding to a church numeral 00:29:22 AnMaster: stack effect of :^ is x=[y x [y x → z] → z], where [foo] is a quotation with stack effect foo 00:29:24 oooh 00:29:29 that would be a nice optimisation 00:29:32 where x=foo means "foo can mention x" 00:29:32 as in 00:29:34 recursive type 00:29:36 so 00:29:37 folding church numbers 00:29:42 trivial 00:29:43 so 00:29:43 into some optimised representation 00:29:45 we push (:^) 00:29:48 so stack is: 00:29:50 ( x=[y x [y x → z] → z] ) 00:29:52 then we duplicate 00:29:55 ( x=[y x [y x → z] → z] ) ( x=[y x [y x → z] → z] ) 00:30:01 and apply the types 00:30:07 AnMaster: it just leads to an infinite type 00:30:13 which could be handled, with enough care 00:30:15 oerjan: do you think so? 00:30:24 of course 00:30:25 wut's that? 00:30:40 nooga: inferring underload stack effects 00:30:48 oerjan: so we can always infer the stack effect of an underload program in finite time? 00:30:50 that's really nice 00:31:01 ehird, couldn't you optimise it into a bignum or whatever. I mean some representation that is fast (relatively to original) on a real computer 00:31:03 ^ul (:::***)((a))~^S 00:31:04 (a)(a)(a)(a) 00:31:09 ehird: no! 00:31:13 ehird, anyway what about !ul 00:31:14 the opposite 00:31:14 !help 00:31:14 Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg 00:31:18 err 00:31:24 !underload (S)S 00:31:25 S 00:31:26 oerjan: the opposite— why? 00:31:31 iirc it did some tricky stuf 00:31:33 stuff 00:31:34 hmm 00:31:37 AnMaster: it does 00:31:39 but I want to go further 00:31:51 oerjan: I don't see why you can't just handle recursive types like (:^), and thus infer any program 00:32:03 ehird: because you can calculate any recursive function it is impossible to calculate a church numeral for sure in finite time 00:32:07 ehird, for UL the difference between interpreter and optimising compiler seems very very small 00:32:13 oerjan: i'm not talking about church numerals‽‽ 00:32:26 ehird, just one generates a program that outputs the same thing 00:32:27 oerjan: I'm talking about inferring the stack effect of underload programs 00:32:29 ehird: i was using them to prove you cannot do it 00:32:32 oerjan: how 00:33:19 if you have a church numeral on the stack, then ((x))~^^ creates that number of (x) on the stack 00:33:51 oerjan: bollocks. 00:33:54 repeating: 00:34:03 ^ul (:::***)((a))~^S 00:34:03 (a)(a)(a)(a) 00:34:06 nope, I get it 00:34:10 how irritating 00:34:20 oerjan: you'd think once you infer (:^):^ properly everything else would be trivial :) 00:34:28 heh 00:34:33 um 00:34:44 oerjan: OTOH, isn't it possible to infer in a large number of cases? 00:35:33 can't you infer from church numerals? I mean if you constant fold them. into some (church 4) representation. 00:35:37 or maybe you can't 00:35:54 oerjan: explain to him properly :P 00:36:07 ehird: well sure it's probably quite analogous to bf balanced vs. unbalanced loops 00:36:08 no, not the GENERAL case 00:36:14 duh 00:36:17 I'm not stupid 00:36:23 I meant, for many common cases 00:36:30 AnMaster: well sure if they're constants 00:36:46 oerjan, yes of course you could build new ones 00:36:56 and then you couldn't in general 00:37:26 anyway 00:37:32 the fun bit in bf 00:37:37 is optimising unbalanced loops 00:37:43 you can do it, partly 00:37:44 sometimes 00:37:50 i cannot find documentation for this shit 00:38:02 like constant propagation to put a upper bound on the range of a [>] 00:38:21 where I mean the constant propagation has the needed data sometimes 00:38:25 not always of course 00:38:37 AnMaster: does your compiler optimize >>>>>+<<<<<[>]+ into p[5] = 2;? 00:38:45 ehird, not yet. But it is planned 00:38:58 ehird, is 6th item in my private TODO 00:38:59 does esotope? 00:39:04 ehird, don't think so 00:39:07 not 100% sure 00:39:23 ehird, currently in-between sometimes does better, and sometimes esotope does better 00:39:37 often on different parts of the same program 00:39:42 since we do different stuff 00:40:05 ehird, I would have finished polynoms today, but this headache got in the way 00:41:37 and now: night 00:42:25 bye 00:48:17 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:48:28 PHMINPOSUW looks useful 00:50:25 i love sse instructions 00:50:26 FSDIFH 00:50:28 ASDKASJDKDFHDSF 00:56:35 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 00:56:57 heh 00:57:14 porting MFC to iphone O_o 00:57:43 WHY 00:57:59 that's the ABSOLUTE DUMBEST THING I have EVER heard 00:58:44 coppro: he's porting some windows-shit application to the iphone 00:58:48 and, um, apparently he's not porting it? 00:58:51 I know what it is 00:58:58 nooga: i think you should go and choke on something before you do any more damage 00:59:02 OK? 00:59:04 MFC is one of the worst libraries ever written 00:59:15 it should not have been ported to Windows, much less the iPhone 00:59:23 we all know :p 00:59:50 * coppro goes and kills somebody 01:00:06 coppro: don't you think you're overreacting a little 01:00:17 ehird: no 01:01:06 MFC? 01:01:15 pikhq: yes/ 01:01:18 s/\/$// 01:05:35 MFC = ? 01:05:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Foundation_Class_Library 01:06:33 *Oh*. 01:06:37 That shit. 01:07:14 (and I mean no offense... To shit.) 01:07:33 the wikipedia article failes to properly represent it 01:07:42 failes 01:07:44 yeah] 01:07:46 daiyen typoes 01:08:00 *typeos, I suppose 01:08:05 I'm especially curious why one would use C++ on the iPhone. 01:08:05 but i'm porting massive library that strongly depends on MFC and other M$ shit 01:08:23 You've got Objective C as the normal language. 01:08:24 and we decided to port some parts of MFC 01:08:25 nooga: you're evilorrible 01:08:28 nooga: Rewrite it. 01:08:31 please jump out of a window 01:08:37 it was written for 3 years 01:08:44 approx 180 kLOC 01:08:57 nooga: 'Porting' MFC (reimplementing it) will take more time. 01:09:07 not whole MFC 01:09:09 yeah 01:09:32 just some core classes 01:09:46 like CString CTime CSize CTimeSpan... etc etc 01:10:31 * pikhq vomits 01:11:15 * ehird kicks nooga 01:11:18 * ehird stomps on nooga 01:11:20 * ehird throws nooga 01:11:26 Now think about what you've done! 01:11:38 it's just my job lol 01:11:59 i try to keep cool abt that 01:12:10 besides, i never used mfc 01:12:46 I'd sooner rewrite the STL. 01:12:53 yes 01:12:57 STL is also used 01:12:58 And the STL makes me want to gouge my eyes out. 01:22:08 shame shame 01:22:09 on me 01:22:27 bbl 01:25:51 http://plasmasturm.org/log/542/ 01:25:56 So true. 01:41:49 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 01:48:53 -!- olsner has joined. 01:50:02 -!- atrapado has joined. 01:54:44 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 02:00:35 -!- atrapado has quit ("WeeChat 0.2.6.2"). 02:15:19 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 02:18:24 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 02:21:08 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Nick collision from services.). 02:21:11 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 02:21:27 hm. How long were Firefly episodes? 02:22:47 45 minutes without commercials 02:23:12 okay.... argh. So slow. 02:23:23 would calling my ISP about my fucking slow connection do anything? 02:23:30 no 02:23:52 maybe I'll talk to my parents about pitching in for getting a better rate, if it's low atm, just for the summer 02:26:12 "To pull something from L1 cache is like looking at something already on your desk. L2 cache is like asking the guy in the cube next to you. L3 cache is like driving to the other side of town and coming back with your answer. Main memory is like writing a letter to someone in Taiwan and waiting for the response." 02:26:15 bye 02:33:02 ehird: what is accessing the disk then? 02:39:52 it's a bad analogy anway 02:39:56 the ratios are off 02:44:18 bsmntbombdood: Accessing the disk is like ordering something from a mail-order catalog. 02:44:24 ... On Mars. 03:03:00 ok, i think i kind of know how to do a sort of odd/even sort with sse 03:14:10 actually not 03:25:18 -!- inurinternet has joined. 03:40:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:42:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:45:14 -!- inurinternet has quit (Success). 03:45:27 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:52:07 -!- inurinternet has joined. 03:57:08 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 04:11:29 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 04:12:55 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:23:00 damn 04:23:15 i am backing up data from my old drive...it seems that bzip2 is the bottleneck 04:28:12 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:03:44 i am not getting the results i expect :( 05:04:37 bzip2 is SLOW 05:04:45 Use lzma or gzip 05:05:01 pi is apparently 4.44 05:05:40 Close enough. 05:07:52 And downloading something from the network is like what, reading smoke signals from Andromeda? :P 05:08:24 a local network can have a lot less latency than an hdd 05:08:45 I was assuming interwabs 05:09:22 why isn't this working 05:13:19 okay. Here I was thinking that Firefly was okay so far, but... it suddenly got much much better 05:13:23 Summer Glau <3 05:14:03 indeed 05:15:26 Gracenotes: pi = 3.14152625 after 1000000000 iterations 05:15:56 awesome! ... I still haven't gotten around to implementing it, darn it 05:16:05 how big were the numbers you used? 05:16:10 in what language, not to mention? 05:16:32 C 05:16:32 > logBase 2 1000000000 05:16:46 forgot, lambdabot not in here >_> Haskell not esoteric enough 05:16:50 they are 64 bit ints from some mersenne twister implementation i pulled of the web 05:16:52 I think I meant to do logBase 10, too. 05:17:02 bsmntbombdood: unsigned, right? 05:17:27 ja 05:18:41 that is very neat 05:18:51 ah... 1,000,000,000 05:19:08 how much more do you think another billion would help? 05:19:27 I tried to add Haskell. 05:19:30 I failed :P 05:19:53 ghci is GHC /interactive/, not GHC /interpreter/ :P 05:20:02 Gracenotes: i'll tell you in 3 minutes 05:20:09 ...really? >_> 05:20:26 u has fastyness 05:20:36 it's multithreaded 05:20:50 and multicores, as explained earlier 05:21:13 threads can't do much if there's one CPU context-switching all the time :) 05:21:35 poor Gracenotes 05:21:38 stuck with a single core 05:21:47 I have 2 05:21:57 and it is just a laptop after all 05:22:09 2000000000 iterations, 3.141545492 05:22:50 3.141545492 05:22:52 3.14152625 05:22:54 mm. 05:22:57 You'd think you could do better with 2 billion iterations .... 05:23:21 gonna do 10000000000, be back in 15 minutes 05:24:07 My brain, after 1 iteration, pi = 3.14159265358979323 05:25:26 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 05:25:58 you might also have a limit with the floating point itself 05:26:03 but that's not too likely 05:26:19 interestingly, you could also try to predict how many out of the 10000000000 would be coprime 05:26:32 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: The interrational tub of esoteric programming language designers and soap. No soap, radio! Pass the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:26:55 10000000000*6/(pi^2) 05:27:20 which Haskell kindly tells me is 6079271019 05:29:05 I'd imagine a Haskell solution could be nicely optimized 05:29:43 it's not a difficult algorithm. n times, check GCD of two random large numbers; increment a counter if it's 1.... 05:30:05 if we unbox strict field, or as I like to call it, funboxing. :/ 05:30:30 what does that even mean? 05:30:59 in Haskell, there are primitive types like Int# 05:31:22 actually, no, it doesn't have to do with primitive types 05:31:39 whatever, it won't be faster than my C 05:31:42 or does it? Either way, it removes the constructor if it can 05:31:59 bsmntbombdood: you might be surprised :) 05:32:09 wait there's a better gcd algorithm than euclid or whatever's right? 05:32:13 -O2 can be pretty ruthless. rawr. 05:32:41 are you able to make it multithreaded/processed? 05:33:03 bsmntbombdood: well... I'm sure there are more efficient ways to check if two numbers are coprime 05:33:19 Euler's algorithm is the most efficient GCD-taker I know of though 05:33:23 we are seeing some diminishing returns here... 05:33:40 10000000000 iterations, pi = 3.1415826392666 05:34:29 gonna go for another order of maginitude, i'll have a result in 90 minutes 05:34:36 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:45:04 bsmntbombdood: how many digits you listed is based on a value of pi you already have? 05:58:18 no, i was just copying and pasting 06:01:59 23:01:43 up 1:53, 30 users, load average: 8.13, 8.00, 8.00 06:02:00 heh 06:02:03 hm. why different precisions? 06:02:22 because i copied and pasted less... 06:03:59 -!- inurinternet has joined. 06:10:13 gprof doesn't work will with multiple processes :( 06:17:16 time for assembly! >_> 06:17:41 naw, not worth it 06:19:15 about halfway done with 100 billion iterations 06:20:12 ouch, looks like most of my time is spent calculating gcds 06:22:24 right. not much I can find on the internet about more efficient means of checking coprime, though 06:22:33 84% O.o 06:22:36 you're using the iterative version, of course? 06:22:49 i was thinking that generating the random numbers would be slower 06:22:55 yeah 06:23:08 -!- inurinternet has quit. 06:23:26 -!- inurinternet has joined. 06:23:51 the completely trivial one though--http://pastebin.ca/1429617 06:24:32 looks efficient 06:26:30 here is a possible optimization, a precheck mentioned: http://echochamber.me/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22215 06:26:40 looks like there are algorithms that are asymptotically better, but n is relatively small here 06:26:41 just xkcd forum. not tested, I'm sure 06:26:50 bsmntbombdood: hm, really? 06:26:57 my Google-fu can't find any :\ 06:27:19 on numbers > 100 decimal digits long 06:27:57 well, we could use numbers that big. Would need special facilities though 06:28:21 if all you're doing is generating them to check if they're coprime, after all. Still, would be slower 06:28:33 but I daresay more accurate? >_> 06:28:56 anyway. gcd is efficient... enough. Some checks at the beginning (both even?) might help a bit, perhaps 06:29:05 http://www.springerlink.com/content/7042685247876171/ 06:30:24 if any binary digits on the lower end are the same, they're not coprime 06:30:50 er. by same I mean "0" 06:30:56 and shared 06:31:22 argh. But yeah, those come rarer for more and more 0s 06:31:37 well, both even is 25% 06:31:39 1 sec 06:34:01 doesn't help 06:34:32 hm... sort of a long-shot, but try making the function inline? 06:34:44 it is 06:34:45 then again if you already have -O3 or suchlike it probably already is 06:43:39 well. anyway, the probabilistic algorithm would seem interesting 06:43:43 >_> 06:43:46 <_< 06:43:48 PSOX. 06:43:54 Yes? 06:43:59 it might introduce a systemic bias in the pi calculation though 06:44:01 >_> 06:44:02 <_< 06:44:04 PSOX. 06:48:31 20 more minutes >_< 07:04:52 What? 07:05:05 >_> 07:05:24 Sgeo: 100 billion iterations 07:12:05 100000000000 iterations, pi = 3.14159361115197 07:12:15 that's dissapointing! 07:12:17 Gracenotes: ^^ 07:15:27 aww. 07:15:42 Perhaps you need higher numbers than 2^64-1 for better accuracy? 07:16:15 i wouldn't thing so 07:16:50 aha 07:16:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprime#Probabilities 07:17:14 as N -> infinity, the probability goes to 6/pi^2 07:17:57 maybe it's time to break out gmp 07:17:58 after all it is a limit to infinity 07:18:25 there must be some way to calculate how many digits you can get from an N 07:18:50 related directly to the Riemann zeta function, particularly 07:19:28 bsmntbombdood: slower yet, but perhaps better results :D 07:20:33 i can't find the mpz function to convert from a bit array 07:22:27 oh, they've got their own prng 07:27:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:42:21 gmp is underwhelming 07:46:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 07:47:26 disregard that, i wasn't seeding properly 07:56:30 well now i'm bored of this 07:56:32 http://pastebin.ca/1429665 07:56:37 source if anyone wants it 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:20:02 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:21:06 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:29:35 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:41:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 08:43:38 -!- M0ny has joined. 08:57:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:02:06 -!- olsner has joined. 09:12:13 bsmntbombdood: thank ye 09:18:17 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:18:50 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 09:43:36 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:59:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:26:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:46:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:47:59 -!- tombom has joined. 10:56:54 !help 10:56:55 Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg 10:58:22 !rot13 butt 10:58:22 ohgg 10:58:25 OHGG 10:58:43 !rot13 omg 10:58:44 bzt 10:58:53 EgoBot is an atheist 11:00:51 !c printf("%c", log(1000000000.0)); 11:00:52 11:00:57 huh 11:00:59 oh 11:01:04 !c printf("%f", log(1000000000.0)); 11:01:06 20.723266 11:03:35 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 11:04:52 ghci is GHC /interactive/, not GHC /interpreter/ :P 11:04:59 you may want runghc 11:07:51 however, that takes an entire module iiuc 11:08:07 (not that adding main = is that much trouble) 11:08:54 GregorR-L: oh, also ghc -e 11:16:26 10000000000 iterations, pi = 3.1415826392666 11:16:48 the precision may depend not just on the number of iterations, but also on the sizes of the numbers you test 11:18:22 the (probability of gcd = 1) being p^2/6 is a limit as number range size goes to infinity, after all 11:18:48 er, 6/pi^2 11:19:40 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:22:13 it comes from that product over an expression in primes 11:26:06 1/(1-p^(-2)) 11:27:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:33:50 Main> product [1/(1-fromInteger p^^(-2)) | p <- take 100 primes] 11:33:50 1.64451522172429 :: Double 11:33:50 Main> pi^2/6 11:33:50 1.64493406684823 :: Double 11:36:34 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:39:02 hm maybe that's relatively fast anyway 11:45:40 if the length of range of numbers selected is divisible by a prime, then the product term from that prime fits perfectly 11:46:42 and if the range is much huger than that, the probability of not fitting inside such a range becomes miniscule 11:47:00 *inside such a subrange 11:47:53 so for million digit numbers, primes < 10^100 say, should give practically no error 11:48:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 11:48:17 and that's about 10^100/(100 ln 10) primes, by the prime number theorem 11:48:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 11:48:33 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 11:48:46 someone probably calculated/tested this already. 11:48:56 -> 11:50:05 On some Facebook quiz: "Your best friend tells you (s)he's pregnant. What is your reaction?" 11:52:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:55:02 yay 11:55:11 I just managed to transform some unbalanced loops into ifs 11:57:08 oerjan, and iwc 11:57:10 :) 11:58:20 ehird, you want to read Darth&Droids today... Pirate ninjas! 11:58:24 ;P 12:21:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 12:33:38 * oerjan swats AnMaster for spoiling -----### 12:33:52 oerjan, thought you read it already 12:33:54 sorry 12:34:00 i was in the shower 12:34:18 oerjan, get a water proof computer :D 12:35:24 huh 12:35:32 I changed something completely unrelated 12:35:51 related to loop -> if conversion 12:35:54 and then it did this: 12:35:59 -p[-3]+=p[1]; 12:35:59 p[0]+=255; 12:35:59 +p[-3]+=p[1]; 12:35:59 +p[1]=0; 12:35:59 p[-4]+=p[0]; 12:36:00 p[0]=0; 12:36:02 -p[1]=0; 12:36:08 for no sane reason as far as I can see 12:37:11 a harmless reordering? 12:37:48 oerjan, sure, but it shouldn't happen 12:37:56 oerjan, from what I changed 12:38:34 anyway it is not very harmless. It is supposed to sort by offset when possible. 12:43:22 ah... 12:43:35 a bug in the shifter 12:43:51 it didn't properly recurse into all types of loops. Just the standard loop type. 12:44:28 oerjan, anyway I think in-between is the first compiler that can optimise _some_ unbalanced BF loops into ifs. 12:44:30 :) 12:44:45 Hm. 12:44:49 I be wondering now 12:44:50 -while (p[0]) { 12:44:50 +if (p[0]) { 12:44:50 p[-1]+=1; 12:44:50 p[0]+=255; 12:44:50 p[1]=0; 12:44:51 p[3]+=1; 12:44:53 p+=1; 12:44:55 } 12:44:57 like that 12:45:03 Would it be easy to program Limp on Mathematica? 12:45:19 It's full of math shit that might be useful, so I wonder 12:46:54 oerjan, btw... I have a question... 12:47:50 oerjan, sorting BF instructions by offset has many restructions, for example it must be a stable sort ([-]+ isn't same as +[-]) and you can't swap two output or input instructions with each other. 12:48:14 oerjan, currently I'm using something like a gnome sort. Which is a bit slow for lostking 12:48:34 any idea of a better one that will still be able to handle the various restrictions 12:50:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 12:50:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:50:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 12:53:42 it sounds more like a topological sort than an ordinary sort, since there are a lot of pair restrictions? 12:53:58 oerjan, hm 12:54:04 oerjan, *googles* 12:55:17 oerjan, interesting. Yeah it seems so 12:55:30 (after a quick read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_sorting) 12:56:05 maybe implementing it as a graph of cells using each other would be useful... 12:56:26 wouldn't work at all with current code which uses linked lists to create a parse tree 12:56:46 it would allow tracking dependencies nicely and so on 12:56:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 12:56:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:57:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 12:57:06 not sure how to handle unbalanced loops in that though... 12:57:18 or loops at all 13:05:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 13:06:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:06:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 13:08:09 the completely trivial one though--http://pastebin.ca/1429617 13:08:24 wait, you are using _unsigned long_ for the selected numbers? 13:08:48 i'm not sure that is large enough for a good precision 13:08:59 (not sure it isn't, either) 13:13:42 as for shortcuts, you could select both numbers odd from the outset, and just multiply the probability by ... 3/4, i think 13:15:26 oerjan, what is he using that gcd implementation for 13:15:43 calculating pi using random numbers 13:16:01 ah that one mentioned yesterday 13:16:29 i am just responding to the logs 13:20:44 -!- Corun has joined. 13:33:02 -!- Judofyr has joined. 13:49:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:25:45 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 14:40:23 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 14:44:05 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 14:49:35 yyy 15:08:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 15:21:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 15:21:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 15:51:12 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:56:08 -!- MizardX has quit ("What are you sinking about?"). 16:06:37 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:07:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 16:07:57 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:08:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 16:11:33 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:23:23 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 17:27:35 01:33 bsmntbombdood: ehird: what is accessing the disk then? 17:28:11 waiting for time travel to be invented, going back to 1977, hopping on voyager 2, interpreting the geometry of the universe, 17:28:15 waiting until you wrap around to earth, 17:28:24 and then entering the bits with magnets 17:28:36 yw 17:29:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:33:17 oerjan: think that's accurate? 17:34:27 er, what 17:34:47 * oerjan relogs 17:35:25 17:27 ehird: 01:33 bsmntbombdood: ehird: what is accessing the disk then? 17:35:25 17:28 ehird: waiting for time travel to be invented, going back to 1977, hopping on voyager 2, interpreting the geometry of the universe, 17:35:27 17:28 ehird: waiting until you wrap around to earth, 17:35:29 17:28 ehird: and then entering the bits with magnets 17:35:31 17:28 ehird: yw 17:36:41 * oerjan had to look up bsmntbombdood's original too 17:37:16 "USB FLOPPY DISK STRIPED RAID UNDER OS X" http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm 17:37:42 i am not entirely sure that's accurate 17:38:09 what is the approximate ratio from main memory to main disk? 17:38:24 oerjan: main memory is molasses-slow, disk is astronomically slow 17:39:01 oerjan: i mean, to access the disk on a mechanical HD 17:39:06 that's equivalent to your _claim_, which i need numbers for in order to assess whether it's accurate 17:39:11 you have to send the request across the quite slow connection 17:39:17 it then has to seek 17:39:23 which is so slow you can hear it! 17:39:30 then it has to read it, and send the data back on the connection 17:39:33 whereas, memory on a modern CPU: 17:39:53 send the request across a fast transport, the RAM gets the data very quickly, and sends it back 17:40:18 oerjan: memory takes something like 100 cycles. the fastest mechanical HD (VelociRaptor) can do a read from a random position of the harddrive in *7 milliseconds* 17:40:27 so... no comparison 17:40:40 and i need numbers because (1) i have no intuition and little knowledge about hardware (2) my ballpark estimation ability is nearly nonexistent even for non-hardware subjects 17:40:59 i don't even know how much a cycle is nowadays 17:41:17 <- software guy at very abstract level at best 17:41:32 oerjan: 7ms = 7,000,000 nanoseconds, ram goes at like 3nanoseconds/cycle 17:42:06 so 300 ns vs. 7 ms 17:42:28 oerjan: no, you've got two more zeros there 17:42:37 disk is about a million times slower than RAM 17:42:52 ok, so a letter to taiwan vs time travel, voyager 2, is more than a million 17:42:56 but analogy-wise... 17:43:04 why couldn't you have said that when i asked for a fraction in the first place? :D 17:43:15 cuz I had to google it 17:43:15 :) 17:43:23 oerjan: note that if you have an SSD, it's 0.1ms 17:43:32 oerjan: = 100,000 nanoseconds 17:43:33 7000000/3 17:43:40 still molasses slow, but, faster. 17:43:42 and yes 17:43:45 I had to google the speeds 17:44:15 circle around earth ~= 1/7 light second iirc 17:44:25 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:44:42 so, 1/3 million light seconds 17:44:54 haha wow you're actually working it out 17:45:48 about 3.85 light days, barely out of the solar system 17:45:54 :D 17:46:18 otoh there was that issue of snail mail vs. light speed 17:47:19 ok in time it's more impressive, say a week for mail to taiwan (see my lacking ability for ballparking) 17:47:47 ok 6388 years 17:47:58 that's about the age of the universe, right? ;D 17:48:35 oerjan: awesome 17:48:50 oh wait 17:49:01 dammit i forgot i'd cancelled the 7 17:49:24 44719 years 17:49:36 oerjan: amazing 17:53:59 * ehird burns an arch linux cd 17:54:00 I wonder what to do 17:54:10 What's the hardest assembly language EVER 17:54:10 as in 17:54:12 architecture 17:54:17 that's the hardest to write in assembly 17:54:28 Probably NOT x86, 6502, or any of deriatives of thes 17:54:29 e 17:54:29 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 17:56:01 asiekierka: may i interest you in Malbolge Unshackled? 17:56:07 I said "assembly language" 17:56:08 * oerjan cackles uncontrollably 17:56:17 oh right, that's machine code 17:56:23 well, huh 17:56:24 wait 17:56:25 a very *evil* machine's code 17:56:28 machine code... 17:56:53 ehird, so what did you think about Darth & Droids today 17:56:58 Well, I still want to have a machine that does SUBLEQ 17:56:58 I don't read that comic. 17:57:06 ehird, you will love the one today 17:57:12 I could write some apps for it 17:57:13 link? 17:57:15 if I was ultra bored 17:57:16 ehird, sec 17:57:26 ehird, http://www.darthsanddroids.net/ 17:57:54 heh 17:58:01 ehird, pirate ninjas! 17:58:06 :P 17:58:20 you laugh now, but will you laugh when your home is destroyed by their power? 17:58:32 ehird, you said before they couldn't be combined 17:58:38 I wish someone build a SBN machine 17:58:45 ehird, also I didn't laugh. It was you who did 17:58:46 Subtract & Branch if Negative 17:58:49 AnMaster: they couldn't be combined *safely* 17:58:51 well, not exactly 17:58:54 rather "LEQ" 17:58:55 ehird, oh I see 17:58:56 SBLEQ 17:58:57 AnMaster: think strange quarks 17:59:10 ah 18:00:12 i'm going to install arch as a second os on this mac 18:00:22 hope I don't fuck anything up 18:00:58 ehird, as always: make backups 18:01:09 i don't have any viable backup media 18:01:19 and even if I did I'd wait until I get my new pc 18:01:23 ehird, well, be careful with fdisk stuff 18:01:28 and when I get my new pc, backing up will be unfeasible 18:01:42 since enough media to back up 160GB+2TB for a long time incrementally is... expensive 18:01:49 ehird, just buy almost as much external storage 18:01:56 AnMaster: almost as much? you mean more 18:02:02 surely? 18:02:08 ehird, depends on how you backup 18:02:12 incremental, then yes 18:02:21 incrementally, but if I buy less storage then I can't use any more than that 18:02:23 full every time: a bit less, no need to back up /tmp and /var/tmp 18:02:27 which is redonkulous 18:02:43 18:02 AnMaster: full every time: a bit less, no need to back up /tmp and /var/tmp ← uhm that'd only handle one backup 18:02:55 i want to keep backups forever, you see 18:03:02 ehird, that isn't feasible 18:03:11 sure is if you buy a lot of storage 18:03:25 you don't need to back up anything installed from package manager (exception: config files), since they can be restored by package manager easily 18:03:37 nor most of the things in /var/cache and similiar 18:03:37 AnMaster: i could just back up ~ 18:03:40 but I like snapshots 18:03:50 ehird, I would probably do ~ and /etc 18:03:57 keeping backups forever = ubiquitous revision control of all my computing 18:03:57 and /etc is pretty small 18:03:59 i'm a packrat 18:04:07 of history. :P 18:04:17 ehird, hm, put your entire ~ in git? 18:04:37 AnMaster: that requires manual effort to commit, annotate, etc, and storing .git locally would be infeasible 18:04:41 possibly exclude ~/vcs-checkouts so you can check out other git projects and such 18:04:49 i don't mind it being hard to flip through the backups later on 18:04:52 as long as it's possible 18:05:06 that's why, e.g. i prefer to archive in raw form things like irc logs, emails 18:05:13 ehird, hm... I fail to see where you would find the needed storage 18:05:43 AnMaster: 160GB + 12TB = 2208GB 18:05:53 ehird, generally, raw for for irc is pretty verbose. more so than using a partly parsed for 18:05:53 let's say that 10GB of the OS drive is used 18:05:54 form* 18:06:05 err 18:06:06 *2TB 18:06:10 let's say that 500GB of the 2TB drive is used 18:06:16 hm 18:06:17 well actually 18:06:18 kay 18:06:20 the os drive includes ~ 18:06:25 so let's say 60GB of the OS driv 18:06:26 e 18:06:26 uhu 18:06:28 and 500GB of the 2TB drive 18:06:37 so a non-incremental backup = 560GB 18:06:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:06:47 ehird, fun. 18:06:47 right? 18:06:49 so 18:06:57 560GB for first backup 18:06:59 ehird, but you forget that it will be compressed when backed up 18:07:05 AnMaster: oh, of course 18:07:10 AnMaster: but 18:07:15 the 500GB isn't very compressable 18:07:16 ehird, but in worst case, yeah 18:07:18 since it's movies/etc 18:07:27 the 60GB could probably compress to, let's say, 45 18:07:32 so 545GB for a non-incremental backup 18:07:41 now, let's say that each monthly backup changes 1GB of data 18:07:43 also hi ais523 18:07:45 (compressed) 18:08:08 hmm.. 18:08:10 right 18:08:17 so a year is 12GB 18:08:21 so ten years is 120GB 18:08:28 so 665GB total 18:08:35 now let's say that instead 10GB/mo changes, compressed 18:08:37 that's excessive, but 18:08:45 120GB/year 18:08:45 ehird, was this going to include /usr/bin and such? 18:08:48 or exclude that 18:08:51 AnMaster: include 18:08:54 right 18:08:54 so 1200GB ten years 18:09:04 545+1200 18:09:07 ehird, but not /tmp. It wouldn't make sense to include /tmp 18:09:08 = 1,745GB 18:09:16 hm 18:09:24 AnMaster: ofc, 18:09:28 i'd want to do non-incremental backups often 18:09:33 and I won't keep this system for 10 bloody years 18:09:35 but those two cancel out 18:09:46 -!- ais523_ has joined. 18:09:47 now, a 2TB drive costs 18:09:48 * ehird checks 18:10:15 2TB of storage costs around 200€ 18:10:18 AnMaster: $249.99 18:10:21 In a single drive, more than thata 18:10:22 -a 18:10:25 ehird, yes, you could have two storage units, you don't want to overwrite your only full backup, what if it fails when you are doing the backup 18:10:26 yeah, good point 18:10:28 ok, a 1TB drive costs, 18:10:49 AnMaster: $74.99 18:10:52 hm 18:10:53 ok 18:10:58 so let's say we buy 4 18:11:03 for a total of 4TB backup space 18:11:05 = $299.96 18:11:09 plus the cost of an external drive enclosure 18:11:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:11:23 ehird, plus a fire proof wall mounted safe? 18:11:26 and hi again ais523_ 18:11:38 AnMaster: unfortunately I'm not egotistical enough to convince myself my works are worth surviving that :) 18:11:44 especially since I likely wouldn't 18:11:46 heh 18:11:56 ehird, depends on if you got out of the building in time 18:12:10 i'd die trying to drag the safe with me :-P 18:12:31 ah better to NOT have a safe, so you can easily take the backup with you 18:12:41 AnMaster: I don't get why the "wall mounted" 18:12:53 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 18:13:01 ais523: it looks coolr 18:13:02 cooler 18:13:02 ais523_, maybe wrong word. I meant those that is mounted to the support structure, so it is hard to steal 18:13:11 flash drives may be better for backups, if you aren't backing lots of stuff up 18:13:18 because they easily fit in your pocket in an emergency 18:13:31 ais523: er, it was in the context of buying 4TB of backup space 18:13:31 ais523, he is talking about 500 GB+ 18:13:41 for just the full backup 18:13:53 so unless e.g. SSDs suddenly turn really cheap, that's not feasible 18:13:59 OTOH, mechanical disks are unreliable 18:14:07 OTOOH, I've never had one fail me 18:14:17 well, once 18:14:23 but that was my fault 18:14:49 ehird, what about using 18:14:53 *drum rolls* 18:14:54 tape 18:15:03 AnMaster: you are welcome to donate 4TB of tape to me 18:15:08 :) 18:15:13 ehird, ah I see the problem 18:15:41 hm... What languages would you say have sane macro systems btw? 18:15:56 Lisp, Scheme 18:16:03 mhm 18:16:15 Define "sane" 18:16:17 no other ones? 18:16:27 Deewiant, that is open for discussion. 18:16:31 I've never seen another sane one. 18:16:37 Deewiant: I'm using "good" as the definition. 18:16:51 There's not many that are all that good. 18:17:07 ehird: If you can call Forth's words 'macros', then Forth, too. 18:17:08 :p 18:17:08 GHC's Template Haskell is semi-good 18:17:19 Deewiant: Yeah but it's not really elegant. 18:17:23 I.e. modulo implementation restrictions 18:17:39 ehird, I think the erlang one is pretty sane, for being text replace based... All uses of macros must be prefixed with ?. And they are fairly limited. 18:17:47 Like the fact that the macros have to be defined in a different module than where they're used, coupled with the fact that only one module per file is allowed 18:17:49 "Text replace based" 18:17:52 You are disqualified. 18:17:52 ?trace(blah blah) 18:18:00 and that would be invalid 18:18:09 AnMaster: can you install pkgs from arch livecd 18:18:09 ? 18:18:10 D has handy string macros, but yeah... string macros. 18:18:10 into ram 18:18:11 since blah blah makes no sense 18:18:19 ehird, uh... no idea 18:18:21 why 18:18:28 AnMaster: to install irssi to chat while I install. 18:18:31 ehird, I only ever done net install 18:18:32 s/chat/bug you all/ 18:18:33 yes 18:18:34 net install 18:18:37 it's a livecd 18:18:44 containing a minimal linux setup 18:18:46 :p 18:18:55 ehird, and no idea. Why not create a cheap VM and try it ;P 18:19:04 cuz it's cheaper to reboot! 18:19:18 see you later green suckers of amazing 18:19:21 ←←←←←←←←←→ 18:19:59 " ←←←←←←←←←→" <-- Hm... Assuming that they are matching... He is more "here" than ever before 18:21:50 AnMaster: I believe presence in a channel is saturating 18:22:12 -!- ehird_ has joined. 18:22:22 it's better than kubuntu. 18:22:35 it recognized my wireless kb and mouse! 18:22:39 without doing anything! 18:22:52 ::::::::))))))))))))) 18:23:09 wait mouse isn't wireless, w/e, kb is wireless w/ bluetooth and it goddamn recognized it 18:23:25 i can almost forgive it for being text-based 18:23:46 AnMaster- can you hear me? 18:23:58 ais523? 18:24:06 hi ehird_ 18:24:10 also, what OS is that? 18:24:30 Arch Linux install CD. 18:24:51 ofc, it's the bios emulation recognizing my bluetooth KB, but dammit, kubuntu didn't do it! 18:24:54 ah, interesting 18:25:24 there's a possibility it won't work in X, but I doubt it 18:25:46 OK, time to break everything by partitioning 18:25:56 god nc is a terrible irc client 18:26:11 You should install a copy of RawIRC. 18:26:13 :) 18:26:23 heh, heh, heh, cfdisk refuses to run 'cuz of GPT. Tells me to use parted. 18:26:32 time to see if pacman works on a ramdisk 18:27:14 AnMaster, not with a - after no 18:27:18 ehird, ^ 18:27:27 (I fail highlighting too!) 18:27:48 anmaster it says protocol error when it tries to download the package list when i do pacman ;;;;( 18:28:05 ehird_, um... sounds like network is broken? 18:28:10 ehird, maybe mirror list is wrong 18:28:17 it is in /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist 18:28:20 how can i change what mirror I'm using? /etc/- ah 18:28:34 /etc/pacman.conf right 18:28:42 ehird_, err that is not for the mirror list 18:28:46 that is for the over all config 18:28:57 mirror list is in /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist or /etc/pacman.d/mirror_list 18:29:06 I want to force one particular mirror. 18:29:06 not sure, and arch computer is turned off due to cleaning 18:29:19 "add your preferred mirrors here" --pacman.conf 18:29:21 ehird, then comment the other ones out and just uncomment the one you want 18:29:35 ehird_, never done it that way 18:29:51 ah works now, luck of the draw 18:30:38 *fuck*, it already has parted, haha 18:30:59 [1~[5~argh, I can't scroll up. 18:31:14 ehird, um 18:31:38 nc doesn't use pageup to to scroll 18:31:46 AnMaster: it's a console, you silly. 18:31:57 it works in none of the 18:32:00 m 18:32:10 ehird, you may want to use the key combo for linux vt scroll then. which only seems to work until you switch vt 18:32:15 AnMaster: can you provide start/end to parted as anything other than sectors or whatever? 18:32:37 ehird_, no idea. I tend to use fdisk or gparted 18:32:38 :P 18:32:55 i can't use fdisk 18:33:06 oh 18:33:07 ? 18:33:27 Apple's partition table thing != BIOS's. 18:33:29 and if you already have free space at the end, which I assume, since you probably used bootcamp to free up some space? 18:33:42 nah, I have the drives from my old Kubuntu 18:33:46 need to nuke them 18:34:00 AnMaster, could you "parted\nhelp" and tell me how to lit partitions? 18:34:01 ehird, well ok, can't you just do that and mkfs on them 18:34:29 ehird_, how short is your scrollback but ok 18:34:42 what is the vt scroll combo? 18:34:54 ctrl-alt-pgup iirc 18:35:00 print [devices|free|list,all|NUMBER] display the partition table, available devices, free space, all found partitions, or a particular partition 18:35:03 is what you want I guess 18:35:05 no dive-- thanks 18:35:11 *dice 18:35:16 ehird_, is that VGA or VT 18:35:20 err 18:35:23 VGA or FB 18:35:25 I meant 18:35:26 on the vt 18:35:35 it probably only works for frame buffer consoles 18:35:38 It's console. 18:35:42 non-fb 18:35:57 so vga. AnMaster, what is the cmd to add a partition? add odnes't work 18:37:35 AnMaster: 18:37:51 hm 18:37:59 ehird_, sorry was afk, had to clean my glasses 18:38:04 OK 18:38:06 mkfs NUMBER FS-TYPE make a FS-TYPE file system on partititon NUMBER 18:38:06 mkpart PART-TYPE [FS-TYPE] START END make a partition 18:38:06 mkpartfs PART-TYPE FS-TYPE START END make a partition with a file system 18:38:14 mkpartfs, thanks 18:38:27 ehird_, it can probably only handle basic ones 18:38:32 lolwtf, it wants a partition name :-) 18:38:49 "Arch" then 18:38:58 ehird, also that help is LESS than 25 lines. 18:39:04 how can you not be able to read it 18:39:33 wait ok, some lines are longer than 80 18:39:34 sorry 18:40:35 Support for creating ext3 filesystems is not sdfksdf yet. lol ok 18:40:53 ehird, just create partition then manually create file system 18:41:13 yeah. swap partitions have no fs right? 18:41:30 ehird, mkswap /dev/whatever 18:41:33 is what you do for them 18:41:40 -!- tombom has joined. 18:42:01 ehird_, just adds some header think. NOTE: mkswap doesn't ask for confirmation! 18:42:10 The installer will do that. AnMaster: wtf, parted is daemanding a partition type even for @"mkpart" and i dunno what to give it, it won't accept swap 18:42:20 oh "linux-swap" 18:42:23 ehird, err that is the number think I assume 18:42:26 80 or whatever 18:42:27 forgot 18:43:04 ehird_, err 18:43:05 AnMaster: do i need to run any command to save? or does just quit work 18:43:06 PART-TYPE is one of: primary, logical, extended 18:43:10 that seems wrong 18:43:10 -!- asiekierka has quit. 18:43:21 i'm using the prompt version, and that doesn't apply to GPT iirc 18:43:32 if you omit params it prompts you 18:43:37 ehird, I'm using the prompt too: help mkpart 18:43:38 but yeah is there a save/write command? 18:43:39 ah ok 18:43:45 ehird_, *looks* 18:43:53 thanks 18:44:11 ehird_, btw parted has tab completion 18:44:17 oh, yay 18:44:29 nope, just exit 18:44:34 seems so 18:44:54 ehird_, fun, help doesn't list all commands 18:45:21 heh. *puts ext4 on /* 18:45:36 like "mktable" (don't do it, help mktable says it is for changing between GPT, MBR and so on) 18:45:38 it's installing time!! 18:46:19 i have an itch vto install w3m. bloody internet addiction 18:48:09 ehird_, might be useful in case you need have issues with X and need to google to find out how to solve it 18:48:11 or such 18:48:46 i mean on this ramdisk :-) 18:49:32 but I have every faith in Xorg's auto-detection. probably. i mean, evdev is the only thing that actually works with one of the mice i have :-) 18:51:31 F U C K 18:51:57 THIS IS THE X86 CD NOT THE X86_64 ONE 18:52:04 BRB ANGRYREBOOTING 18:54:36 raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage 18:54:36 -!- ehird_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:55:03 * ehird downloads the Real Fucking CD 18:56:22 AnMaster: excuse me, be annoyed 18:56:23 thankyou 18:56:38 ? 18:56:48 ah 18:56:52 wrong cd heh 18:56:57 well it'd work just fine 18:57:02 but not very 64bitlovefesty 18:57:08 of course it worked 18:57:18 http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/stock-photography-misuse.html ← ah, the BNP 18:57:31 such irritating xenophobes 18:57:42 (british national"ist" party) 18:57:45 hm, is it possible to make a tail recursive version of the _Extended_ GCD. 18:57:53 AnMaster: paste the code 18:58:00 extended_gcd(A,B) -> 18:58:00 case A rem B of 18:58:00 0 -> {0, 1}; 18:58:00 N -> 18:58:00 {X, Y} = extended_gcd(B, N), 18:58:01 {Y, X-Y*(A div B)} 18:58:05 end. 18:58:07 is what I have atm 18:58:13 not tail recursive 18:58:20 also I haven't tested it yet. 18:58:28 AnMaster: not truly tail recursive, no, it seems 18:58:29 just based it on pseudo code found on wikipedia 18:58:33 ofc, you could continuation-passing-style 18:58:38 ehird, there is an iterative style 18:58:39 but that just sucks up another part of memory 18:58:45 AnMaster: show the iterative style 18:58:58 ehird, would be flooding on irc. sec for link 18:59:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Euclidean_algorithm#Iterative_method 18:59:17 AnMaster: yes, you could do that 18:59:29 AnMaster: change every variable in the pseudocode to a parameter 18:59:34 ehird, would be rather inelegant though 18:59:34 to change a variable, recurse with its new value 18:59:38 prophet 18:59:44 yes it would work 18:59:51 AnMaster: so do it :) 19:00:05 ehird, less elegant. As usual 19:00:12 but meh 19:00:46 http://www.crooksdesign.co.uk/images/bnp_poster.jpg ← this is a polish plane 19:00:48 discuss the irony 19:01:12 ehird, looks like an UK one to me. 19:01:22 'tis not 19:01:22 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/04/polish_spitfire/ 19:01:26 hilarious 19:01:31 ah 19:01:40 ehird, Spitfire is originally from UK though 19:01:44 of course 19:01:44 the model I mean 19:02:02 but for a party that goes around talking about how polish immigrants are ruining the UK with their devil fire and Muslins... 19:04:28 yeah 19:04:33 Muslins? 19:05:02 huh aspell accepts it 19:05:07 AnMaster: Muslin is a type of fibre. 19:05:07 * AnMaster googles 19:05:09 Fiber 19:05:12 yep seems so 19:05:18 It is destroying the world. 19:05:21 what has that got to do with Polish 19:05:28 ehird: if muslin is involved, then would polish immigrants refer to making things shinier? 19:05:42 AnMaster: right wingers often misspell muslim as muslin 19:05:46 because they're ignorant, see. 19:06:07 and, Polish is Catholic iirc 19:06:14 Poland* 19:06:21 "with their devil fire and Muslims" 19:06:27 i.e., they're collaborating with muslims to end the world 19:06:38 uhu 19:06:39 it's a joke, see. about the BNP's "send all immigrants back!!12182374" policy. 19:06:40 laugh. 19:06:44 and what would devil fire be 19:07:03 fire personally provided by the devil? 19:07:47 uhu 19:07:50 yeah 19:07:54 AnMaster: to basically sum up the BNP, their founder once said "Mein Kampf is my bible" 19:07:54 makes no sense 19:08:01 and correct, but I made up "devil fire" 19:08:19 * AnMaster goes back working on that gcd 19:10:24 "Text adventure blockbusters Zork I II III (PC/MAC) now free from Infocom!" 19:10:30 AnMaster: the table method listed on wp can be made to work tail recursive 19:10:31 oh, wait 19:10:35 that's the old pirate site, I think 19:10:42 what a disappointm— 19:10:46 oerjan, which is the most efficient one though 19:10:49 hmm 19:10:50 yeah 19:11:03 AnMaster: don't ask me such questions :D 19:11:08 oerjan, why not 19:12:35 because accurate speed and efficiency is incompatible with how my brain works. or something. 19:17:55 AnMaster: oh, the table method and the iterative method may be equivalent. i was confused by how the description of the latter seemed to calculate the quotients first, but the pseudocode seems to interleave them 19:18:07 mhm 19:18:13 I don't want an efficient method. 19:18:16 I want a fast method. 19:18:40 pikhq: i may have to slap you for that practical remark 19:18:41 (10 trillion CPUs for a single calculation is absurdly fast. It sure as hell isn't efficient. :D) 19:18:43 * ehird slaps pikhq 19:18:55 ehird: Not practical. 19:19:10 It's a desire for a room of blinkenlights. 19:19:12 huh, the iterative one return one more result than the recursive one 19:19:15 THEORY TRUMPS EVER— oh okay 19:19:16 I don't want a practical method. 19:19:18 I want a fast method. 19:19:18 in the pseudo code 19:19:23 that makes no sense? 19:19:25 * ehird punches Deewiant 19:19:30 wait no 19:19:32 is that good or bad 19:19:34 aaaaaaargh 19:19:36 oerjan, ^ 19:19:36 i can't tell 19:20:56 AnMaster: perhaps that a is just the gcd 19:21:15 the recursive one only returns the coefficients 19:21:31 gcd_test:extended_gcd(3, 9). 19:21:31 {1,0,3} 19:21:40 that is the iterative 19:21:51 Deewiant: Get 100 of the uber-build that ehird and I built. 19:21:54 gcd_test:extended_gcd_rec(3, 9). 19:21:54 {1,0} 19:22:01 pikhq: it wasn't all that fast 19:22:02 i mean 19:22:04 tons of HDs 19:22:09 isn't gonna really do anything for speed 19:22:13 oerjan, aha 19:22:20 AnMaster: right, the latter doesn't return the actual gcd. easy to modify though. 19:22:30 ehird: It had 32 cores. 19:22:37 oerjan, yeah. But I'm going for iterative one. Now just to clean it up 19:22:39 That's ridiculously fast. 19:22:40 ;) 19:22:44 pikhq: yes but 19:22:48 that doesn't cost $80k 19:23:00 http://rafb.net/p/0LVnQZ12.html is the "raw" translation of it 19:23:05 there are some pointless variables there 19:24:44 http://rafb.net/p/Oy8qYb13.html that is better 19:24:54 of course it could be merged into the call if we wanted 19:25:27 AnMaster: extended_gcd(A, B, X, Y, LastX, LastY) -> Quot = A div B, extended_gcd(B, A rem B, LastX-Quot*X, LastY-Quot*Y, X, Y) 19:25:42 ehird, yep 19:25:45 that was my point 19:25:51 yes 19:26:13 AnMaster: note that calculating div and rem simultaneously can be faster iirc if you have a function for it 19:26:22 and since erlang doesn't actually need newlines there you could do it all in one line, apart from the initial -module(gcd_test). which needs to be on a separate one 19:26:29 oerjan: dude he's using erlang 19:26:52 oerjan, don't think I have... but it is possible erlang optimises that 19:26:57 ehird: i don't know if erlang does, i know haskell has it 19:27:00 AnMaster: divmod 19:27:02 google for it 19:27:06 everything has it 19:27:08 ehird, I know what it is 19:27:15 oerjan: i meant, microöptimization hardly helps 19:27:31 ehird, and C doesn't. 19:27:31 ehird: perhaps not 19:27:35 ehird: haha, I love your technically-speaking-correct Englih 19:27:37 *English 19:27:54 ehird: but if the bignum routines take most of the time, still... 19:27:58 ais523: yes, the diaeresis is a true friend of mine 19:28:13 what's its use called in English? 19:28:15 ais523, how is it correct? 19:28:16 I'm not sure 19:28:19 * oerjan recalls that his brain is not supposed to care about speed and efficiency 19:28:21 AnMaster: preëmptive 19:28:22 it's old-style 19:28:24 nowadays ẍ is -x 19:28:26 oh ok 19:28:32 micro-optimization used to be microöptimization 19:28:35 ehird: Or just x 19:28:35 it's the only accent english as 19:28:36 has 19:28:36 AnMaster: in theory, you can use a diaresis (looks the same as an umlaut) to separate two syllables in English 19:28:43 Deewiant: yes 19:28:45 but nobody's used it for years 19:28:48 ais523, heh 19:28:51 so it's more or less died out from the language 19:28:56 it looks pretty 19:28:56 you can see it in old books, sometimes 19:29:01 agreed 19:29:02 I use it in stuff I don't intend others to read 19:29:10 and in a few names, like Zoë 19:29:20 is Zoë an english name? 19:29:28 Yes 19:29:41 Without the umlaut... 19:29:46 GregorR-L: I meant with. 19:29:51 Also, not an umlaut. 19:29:59 Diarrhea. I mean, 19:30:05 diaeresis 19:30:08 Without the diacritical mark ... 19:30:15 GregorR-L: I meant _with_. 19:30:28 And I'm saying it is, but only without :P 19:30:39 ais523: defend yourself! 19:30:43 You mean most people don't think of the diaeresis? 19:30:56 pikhq: most people don't even know it's valid in English... 19:30:56 ehird: against what? 19:30:57 I've seen the name, but only without. 19:30:59 or ever was 19:31:04 poor Zoë and her diarrhea 19:31:09 ais523: that Zoë is a valid english name, not just Zoe. GregorR-L seems to think not. 19:31:14 GregorR-L: that's because most English people never bother to learn how to type it 19:31:18 I suppose next you'll tell me that people don't think of "print'ed" making the e pronounced. 19:31:24 There's no such thing as an "invalid" name. 19:31:38 GregorR-L: some countries have lists of legal names to give children 19:31:46 although the UK doesn't, nor does the US as far as I know 19:31:53 * pikhq uses psuedo-dead keys instead of proper compose keys 19:31:56 "He has proposed that a one-way trip to Mars could be a viable option." 19:31:58 Of course the US doesn't, otherwise nobody would be named Shaniqua 19:32:09 ais523: This is the land of people named "Gonnorhea". 19:32:15 norway used to have such a list, but i think it was abolished 19:32:30 There is neither a list of valid names *nor* any sense in choosing names. 19:32:38 However, I'd bet that far, far more people are named Zoe, as the parents don't know how to write a diacritical mark any more than anyone else :P 19:32:50 And I'm pretty sure that there is nothing requiring your name to even use English phonemes. 19:33:05 also, nowadays there's a big advantage to pure-ASCII names 19:33:10 pikhq: Tell that to the artist formerly known as the artist formerly known as Prince. 19:33:16 it's probably still illegal to give a child a name that "can be a burden to them", though 19:33:22 Sweden used to have such a list at least. Not sure if it still does. 19:33:25 which is that many websites you might have to use don't know how to handle encodings properly 19:33:30 GregorR-L: Unicode should have the Prince symbol 19:33:38 GregorR-L: I suspect it has to be representable in Latin. 19:33:43 after all, it DOES have a valid use: entering albums under that name into a music player 19:33:51 Erm. The Latin alphabet... 19:33:57 Including diaretics. 19:34:01 actually, even on paper forms, sticking to ASCII is helpful because the values are likely to be written into computers eventually, by people who don't know what they're doing 19:34:05 This is my sun, Cogitoergosum. 19:34:07 um 19:34:09 Diactrics, even. 19:34:10 pikhq: *diacritics? 19:34:11 your sun 19:34:13 Errr, son X_X 19:34:21 ais523, if Zoë is valid... is that same as Zo-e ?? 19:34:28 AnMaster: pronunciation-wise, yes 19:34:38 How about Zoiee 19:34:43 Or Zohee 19:34:47 Or Zowey 19:34:53 GregorR-L: Zoee would probably be the nearest representation without the accent 19:34:57 ais523, cïntercal? 19:35:02 but people just memorise how words are meant to be pronounced 19:35:07 avoid dianetics in your latin alphabet 19:35:08 AnMaster: invalid, C isn't a vowel 19:35:10 GregorR-L: ASCII representation of the Artist's symbol: O(+> 19:35:16 Except that Zoe is pronounced like Zo :P 19:35:16 (says someone anonymous) 19:35:16 ais523, oh it needs that, ok 19:35:39 AnMaster: although hyphens are sometimes used to replace diaereses, not all hyphens are used for that purpose 19:35:41 more words need to have a place to use a ¨ in, in English 19:35:48 ais523, mhm 19:35:58 GregorR-L: yes, people memorise the correct pronounciations of words, nowadays, rather than memorising the correct spelling 19:36:01 Why the *hell* do the umlauts show up when GregorR-L types it, but not for someone else typing it? 19:36:07 ais523: That's because this is English :P 19:36:10 Someone else familiar with urxvt care to enlighten? 19:36:10 I AM GOING TO REBOOT AND REINSTALL ARCH ! !!!! 19:36:13 GregorR-L: yep 19:36:24 pikhq, are you using UTF-8? 19:36:27 pikhq: I wonder if GregorR-L is using Latin-1? 19:36:29 because I'm sending in UTF-8 19:36:39 and my client does auto detection 19:36:39 AnMaster: Nominally. 19:36:42 Mine may be Latin-1, I haven't configured it on this laptop. 19:36:46 so it handles Latin-1 19:36:48 This line is written in Latin-1: premptive 19:36:56 ais523, how did you pull that off 19:36:58 Okay. 19:37:03 This line is written in UTF-8: preëmptive 19:37:09 AnMaster: I have an encoding setting in my IRC client 19:37:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:37:11 So why the crap does rxvt-unicode only handle Latin-1? 19:37:12 ais523, my client converts input too 19:37:18 *rxvt-unicode*! 19:37:19 ais523, ah, switching it, right 19:37:27 pikhq, check locale 19:37:31 I /typed/ both in Unicode, but one of them I told my client to send in Latin-1 in 19:37:33 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:37:37 ais523, ah 19:38:00 ... Why the crap is LC_ALL=C? 19:38:15 For speed 19:38:25 Because if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for pikhq? 19:38:29 I've made a point of making this en_US.UTF-8. 19:39:13 Apparently there's a genus of amoeba that can be as large as 5mm long. 19:39:36 I wonder if an amoeba farmer could use artificial selection to get amoeba that are 1cm long :P 19:39:49 ... And inexplicably, my system doesn't have the en_US.UTF-8 locale. 19:39:51 Wrangle me up some megaamoeba. 19:41:07 Nobody likes my huge-amoeba idea? 19:41:12 You could feed them mice. 19:41:49 Now, any idea where to go for a system-wide locale setting in Gentoo? 19:42:41 * ehird rages 19:42:49 the iso downloaded md5 != the right one 19:42:52 kekkekekkekekekekekeke 19:42:58 pikhq: /etc/env.d/something 19:43:05 how big are amoebas anyway 19:43:11 apart from "tiny" 19:43:17 *amoebae 19:43:35 <= 1 mm 19:43:55 i wanta pet amoeba 19:44:01 Deewiant: Lemme guess: not obvious. 19:44:09 I think the biggest is 1 mm or so 19:44:18 18:39 GregorR-L: Apparently there's a genus of amoeba that can be as large as 5mm long. 19:44:30 pikhq: The 'something' bit? Not necessarily, I can't remember 19:44:52 pikhq: /etc/profile? 19:44:53 lifthrasiir, there? What are the members "value" and "target" for the Cond class in Esotope-BFC? 19:45:07 pikhq: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/guide-localization.xml sez /etc/env.d/02locale 19:45:16 Now, any idea where to go for a system-wide locale setting in Gentoo? 19:45:17 hm 19:45:27 pikhq, well.. what about the /etc/locale.gen thing 19:45:37 Most amoeba are microscopic, in the 10-20um size 19:45:43 pikhq, to make sure the locales are generated at all 19:45:48 But Chaos (an awesome name for a genus) are as big as 5mm. 19:46:04 why are gentoo docs .xml? they're html 4.01 transitional 19:46:14 AnMaster: I just checked that to make sure it's set right, and have gone ahead and edited 02locale. 19:46:14 ehird, they are auto translated on server iirc 19:46:22 (And, technically, are amoebazoa, not amoeba, but anyway :P ) 19:46:25 ehird: is it valid XML as well? 19:46:26 AnMaster: yes but the file you get just isn't XML in any form :P 19:46:30 ais523: dunno 19:46:34 nope 19:46:35 it would be very funny if it was valid HTML, and valid XML, but not valid XHTML 19:46:36 ehird: Crappy autogeneration. 19:46:36 ais523: it has
19:46:56 well, I hope at least that it's valid SGML 19:47:05 Seems to be well-formed XML. 19:47:23 ehird, you can add ?style=printable 19:47:25 and hmn 19:47:26 hm* 19:47:29 * AnMaster looks 19:47:36 pikhq: no 19:47:36
19:47:45 ehird: Fuck. 19:47:47 Hmm. 19:47:50 plus, the doctype doesn't point to a sgml doctype 19:47:57 I bet the file is stored on the server as XML, then. 19:48:10 Yeah. 19:48:11 yeah.. I said that above 19:48:11 er 19:48:14 it points to an sgml doctype 19:48:16 not an xml one 19:48:22 ehird: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd is an SGML doctype. 19:48:27 19:48 ehird: it points to an sgml doctype 19:48:28 19:48 ehird: not an xml one 19:48:33 Yuh. 19:49:38 ais523: it has
19:49:55 But it also has
, making it invalid HTML and XHTML, and valid XML :P 19:50:08 91228e6b71d74e7a52269f1aaf225a6d archlinux-2009.02-ftp-x86_64.iso—mirrorservice.org 19:50:09 % md5sum archlinux-2009.02-ftp-x86_64.iso 19:50:10 ec8d390ce27fa5bc3125004ba3e7c2f0 archlinux-2009.02-ftp-x86_64.iso 19:50:18 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 19:50:19 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 19:50:20 GregorR-L:
is valid XHTML in context. 19:50:24 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 19:50:29

is perfectly valid. 19:50:30 pikhq: it has content after
19:50:32 so nope 19:50:40 Awwww, lame :( 19:50:42 Well, it's well-formed XML. 19:50:44 :) 19:50:52 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xml-guide.xml 19:50:57 that seems to be what it is about 19:51:45 Actually, it has some
tags that it doesn't close. 19:51:46 ehird: Just use it, who cares about the checksum 19:51:46 Mmmmm, bacon maple bar. 19:51:57 So, it's only valid SGML. 19:52:02 Deewiant: Are you being sarcastic? But I did. The crc failed on decompression while booting 19:52:19 ehird, try another mirror 19:52:21 I am. 19:52:42 ehird, if that is the minimal one, doesn't it take like 2-3 minutes to download it iirc 19:52:45 I wasn't; some errors might not matter, and the expected sum could be incorrect :-P 19:52:50 or maybe that is the gentoo minimal that does 19:53:09 ehird's modem is so slow it's described in baud. 19:53:18 AnMaster: its 153MB 19:53:21 so about 4 minutes 19:53:28 ehird, not a long wait 19:53:34 AnMaster: yes but I'm on to my third cd 19:53:36 I remember when I downloaded a 500 MB ISO on 512 kbps! 19:53:37 well, dvd 19:53:40 THAT was long 19:53:50 a long wait* 19:53:53 AnMaster: I remember when I downloaded a 30MB file on 56kbps. 19:54:03 I've downloaded several 600+MB files on 256kbps 19:54:04 It took all day. And since it was 56kbps, couldn't load anything else while I waited. 19:54:09 ehird, I never did. Since it was pay per time. 19:54:22 In those days, if a file was >1MB I canceled it immediately. 19:54:23 ehird, you could load other stuff, it would just be very slow 19:54:27 I remember when I downloaded a 3TB file on a 2880 baud modem! 19:54:27 I just couldn't download it fast enough. 19:54:33 That took FIFTY YEARS. 19:54:36 AnMaster: Too slow for usabiilty. 19:54:38 *usability 19:54:39 UP HILL IN THE SNOW BOTH WAYS 19:54:40 ehird, true 19:54:53 GregorR-L: Shaddup. 19:54:56 GregorR-L: I remember downloading every internet of every infinite planet via TCP/IP over carrier pigeon over space rocket. 19:55:06 You know as well as I do that that was 3TBs of 0s, and it was RLE'd. 19:55:06 IT TOOK INFINITY TO THE POWER OF INFINITY YEARS 19:55:28 yay 19:55:29 another mirror works 19:55:40 ehird, report the broken mirror? 19:55:42 GregorR-L: Also... Have you though of making a Javascript LLVM backend? 19:55:48 Thought, even. 19:55:51 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH 19:55:51 AnMaster: It's mirrorservice.org, quite a big thing 19:55:54 Maybe they'll notice themselves. 19:55:58 pikhq: Meh. 19:56:03 Not as fun as emulating CPUs. 19:56:03 ehird, all users think that 19:56:07 so no one will 19:56:12 AnMaster: So everyone will have to use another mirror 19:56:14 Fine by me 19:56:17 It'll fix next release, I assume 19:56:17 I think the biggest file I downloaded on 56kbps was around 60-70 MB 19:56:18 Technically, he could just make LLVM target MIPS and do that. 19:56:19 :) 19:56:44 It would presumably be more efficient to compile directly. 19:56:55 And my MIPS-JS AOT compiler is stalled :P 19:57:13 lol efficiency 19:57:14 whatever was the size of netscape 3 was the largest file I downloaded on 28.8k 19:57:15 :P 19:58:05 http://www.theweek.com/article/index/96719/Dick_Cheney_2012 ← No. NO. NO, NO AND MORE FUCKING NOS FOREVER UNTIL YOU RUN OUT OF THE INFINITE SUPPLY OF NOS. AND THEN AGAIN! AND THEN, FINALLY, ONE MORE NO! 19:58:10 Probably less than 10 MB 19:59:14 Don't worry, Cheney'll be dead by then :P 19:59:52 Wow, my drive is whirring. 19:59:55 WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 20:00:03 *crack* 20:00:07 *boing* 20:00:17 *ka-THUNK* 20:00:23 *boom* 20:00:31 MOTOR-FUCKING-CYCLE TIME, WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I'M GOING TO ARCH UP THE POODLES 20:00:33 FUCKIN' A POODLES 20:00:35 20:00:44 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:00:48 !bfjoust ais523_defend0 +*9999 20:00:49 Score for ais523_defend0: -10 (maximum 10) 20:02:18 wow, according to report.txt, defend0 drew with every single program in there at the moment 20:02:22 which is slightly surprising 20:02:27 GregorR-L: Something else nice would be being able to compile Java to LLVM and then run Java in a browser via Javascript. 20:02:29 Probably less than 10 MB <-- took all day 20:02:34 !bfjoust ais523_defend0_1 .+*9999 20:02:35 Score for ais523_defend0_1: -11 (maximum 11) 20:03:01 AnMaster: Googling suggests it's between 3 and 6 MB depending on the precise version 20:03:10 Deewiant, For Mac 20:03:30 another drew-with-everything 20:03:37 oh, duh 20:03:39 -!- ehird_ has joined. 20:03:40 invalid syntax 20:03:41 AnMaster: PowerPC or 68K 20:03:44 every program's ending with an error 20:03:46 Deewiant, PowerPC 20:03:47 good MORNING america I'm feeling FABULOUS 20:03:50 !bfjoust ais523_defend0 (+)*9999 20:03:58 and HOW\\ 20:03:59 !bfjoust ais523_defend1 .(+)*9999 20:04:07 because AMERICA, AMERICA!3487 only the thing 20:04:10 Score for ais523_defend0: -5 (maximum 11) 20:04:20 you, see, you see, you not see? okay. 20:04:22 Score for ais523_defend1: -6 (maximum 12) 20:04:45 And so, the sage said: ,,Perl!'' 20:05:01 ehird_: you're not making a whole lot of sense 20:05:01 Deewiant, might have been 68k running in some sort of backward compat mode, not sure if those old macs had that 20:05:08 they might have 20:05:09 AnMaster: around 5 MB then 20:05:16 Deewiant, hm I think I downloaded Netscape 4.something too on that... Again for Mac, PPC. 20:05:19 (4.89 MB for the .hqx) 20:05:19 "5MB" the colon 20:05:36 ha hah 20:05:42 Deewiant, switched to 56k soon after that 20:05:56 AnMaster: what were you using before 56k 20:06:08 ehird_: 28.8k. 20:06:16 yeah well I used 1b 20:06:21 it was so fast 20:06:22 1 baud? 20:06:29 1 byte 20:06:33 AnMaster: Netscape 4 is already 10 MB and up. 20:06:34 kile 56 kilobytes 20:06:38 *like 20:06:42 22.5 MB for 4.79. 20:06:43 Deewiant, ah 20:06:44 !bfjoust ais523_defend0_1 .(+)*9999 20:06:46 I believe that a good Morse keyer would have similar speed. 20:06:49 Deewiant, 4.5? 20:06:53 oerjan: i tried it with 256 bit numbers too 20:06:53 if that existed 20:06:56 Score for ais523_defend0_1: -6 (maximum 12) 20:06:57 (Netscape 8.01 is 13.2 MB) 20:06:57 yeah pikhq it was powered by a morse keyerer 20:07:00 didn't get much more accuracy 20:07:03 it was so awsum 20:07:03 (9.0.0.6 is 5.9 MB) 20:07:13 Deewiant, wait. this is going in the wrong direction... 20:07:25 !bfjoust ais523_defend1 [>+[]<(.)*258(+)*127] 20:07:27 Deewiant: 9 is based on mozilla isn't it? 6MB for a mozilla browser? how novel 20:07:39 AnMaster: Netscape 4 was quite crap, you know :-P 20:07:53 ehird: i put the side on this case and the gpu temp went up to like 75 20:07:56 ehird_: Netscape since 4.0 was rebranded Mozilla. 20:08:02 Deewiant, yeah I know 20:08:03 the heatsink was burning hot 20:08:03 bsmntbombdood: that's fine 20:08:09 Score for ais523_defend1: -6 (maximum 12) 20:08:11 GPUs run up to like 85C 20:08:17 Deewiant, all netscape after 3 was 20:08:23 bsmntbombdood: or was this at idle? 20:08:29 AnMaster: 4.5 for PPC is 13.6 MB 20:08:29 9 was based on Firefox, 6, 7, and 8 were based on the suite. 20:08:38 Deewiant, heh 20:08:39 ehird: idle 20:08:48 Netscape 6 was alright IIRC 20:08:53 AnMaster: 4, you mean. Mozilla got the Netscape 4 source and rewrote the whole thing. 20:09:02 Netscape 6 was Mozilla 1.0. 20:09:05 someone gimme a hostname for this arch installation 20:09:06 Good times. 20:09:20 pikhq, ? 20:09:20 bsmntbombdood: ouch. 20:09:22 ehird_: Roll a dice. 20:09:23 ehird_: 'crc-error' 20:09:29 I said... *AFTER* 3 20:09:30 bsmntbombdood - just put a fan on that thing 20:09:34 3 was the last good one 20:09:39 AnMaster: And you're wrong. 20:09:45 Deewiant - brilliant. crcerror, though, no - 20:09:46 for quite some time 20:09:51 AnMaster: After *4*. 20:09:56 pikhq, 4 was bad 20:10:00 pikhq: Right you are, that'd explain why it was good. 20:10:04 Netscape Communicator 4 was bad 20:10:08 ever used it? 20:10:17 ehird_: Some phrase from the CRC error you got, then 20:10:20 I'm forced to assume you didn't 20:10:20 The Mozilla project was created when Netscape dumped the Netscape 4.5 source. 20:10:30 wohoo, I wrote a program that attack5 doesn't beat 20:10:33 Deewiant - there was none. pikhq - IE5 was betetr than NS4 20:10:34 pikhq, yes, and they rewrote it 20:10:34 ehird_: "not-91228e6b71d74e7a52269f1aaf225a6d' also 20:10:37 AnMaster: Yes, but that doesn't change that Netscape 4 was not based on Mozilla. 20:10:43 large parts of it 20:10:57 AnMaster: Mozilla didn't exist until Netscape 4 was well and done. 20:11:03 Although I guess that kind of goes against the whole point of hostnames by making it a long & hard to remember number 20:11:08 pikhq, I can't figure out if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me... 20:11:12 Mozilla was created instead of Netscape 5. 20:11:15 Mozilla was the name of Netscape's open-source-NS4 project, AnMaster. 20:11:19 IE* was better than NS4. 20:11:19 AnMaster: I'm saying you're being dumb. 20:11:23 No "basing on" - direct descendant. 20:11:28 ehird_, I know what Mozilla is 20:11:35 Deewiant, agreed 20:11:47 AnMaster: And you still said NS4 was based on Mozilla, when it's the other way around. 20:11:54 pikhq, I didn't 20:12:02 pikhq, it was you who talked about Mozilla 20:12:02 not me 20:12:15 AnMaster: Oh. 20:12:31 I completely misunderstood you when you said "all netscape after 3 was". 20:12:35 Yes, NS4 was crap. 20:12:38 -!- ehird_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:12:55 pikhq, tried NS6 too, was a memory whore, and buggy 20:12:58 NS6 through 9 were taking Mozilla's latest and making it into crap. 20:13:23 That's because NS6 was based on a Mozilla RC or a beta... 20:13:28 1.0 RC, I think it was? 20:13:43 iirc I tried NS9 too, never think I used NS8 20:13:45 And nobody in their right minds would use Mozilla 1.0. 20:13:48 and NS9 was just as bad 20:13:56 NS9 was based on a pre-1.0 Firefox. 20:14:06 pikhq, what was NS8 then 20:14:22 I used Mozilla 1.0 for a brief period. 20:14:35 * pikhq looks it up 20:14:51 I think I was using IE6 when I switched to Phoenix 0.4. 20:15:05 Ah, NS8 was based on pre-1.0 Firefox. NS9 was pre-2.0 Firefox. 20:15:41 Netscape had this odd tendency to use browser versions before the stable release. 20:18:43 Pre-2.0 was stable, unless you mean it was a 2.0 RC? 20:19:10 RC. 20:19:28 Deewiant: btw by no - i meant crcerror not crc-error 20:19:31 not "not crc-error" 20:19:44 And NS9 didn't last very long. 20:19:48 but grr 20:19:50 am annoyed 20:19:53 it installed fine 20:19:56 but efi doesn't realise its bootable 20:20:12 i installed grub onto the partition i installed arch on to 20:23:10 ooh I got esotope to traceback 20:23:16 on one of my test programs for in-betwee 20:23:18 between* 20:23:47 +>+>+<<[>]>> ,[ >[-]+ [++>--<]< ,] ,[ >[-]++ [++>--<]< ,] ,[ >[-]++ [+++>--<]< ,] 20:23:49 to be specific 20:24:05 "traceback"? 20:24:11 Traceback (most recent call last): 20:24:11 File "./esotope-bfc", line 74, in 20:24:11 sys.exit(main(sys.argv)) 20:24:13 "segfault" in a Python context 20:24:13 and so on 20:24:14 I guess 20:24:16 yeah 20:24:17 Deewiant: ah, ok 20:24:22 TypeError: object of type 'CGenerator' has no len() 20:24:39 Dynamic typing ruins the day yet again 20:24:39 too messy and undercommented code to have any idea what caused that 20:25:09 Deewiant, erlang has dynamic typing. But it has a tool to verify static contracts. Optionally. 20:25:23 and it can also find some of those bugs without static contracts 20:25:27 * ehird installs rEFIt, puts grub on the global mbr, runs rEFIt's gptsync 20:25:33 dialyzer is the name of the tool 20:25:37 ehird: gptsync? 20:25:42 ais523: syncs gpt/mbr 20:25:50 gpt = GUID partition table 20:26:07 does something called "successive typing", I have no idea how it works. 20:26:25 these disks are fucking loud 20:26:40 bye 20:26:42 bsmntbombdood, are you on linux? there may be help if so 20:26:49 yes 20:26:51 bsmntbombdood: which disks 20:26:52 cd or hd 20:26:57 this old hd 20:26:59 or fd 20:27:01 -!- MizardX has quit ("What are you sinking about?"). 20:27:03 bsmntbombdood: use the new one? 20:27:03 i am copying shit off it 20:27:05 bsmntbombdood, man hdparm 20:27:06 oh 20:27:15 search for "Automatic Acoustic Management" 20:27:16 bye→ 20:27:33 space messed up by man there 20:27:39 wonder why man sometimes add two spaces 20:29:42 um 20:30:03 in python, if I do print foo, where foo is a variable. And I get {2} back. What type is that... 20:30:07 set? 20:30:12 I forgot 20:30:16 ...dictionary 20:30:21 wait what? 20:30:25 bsmntbombdood, isn't that { key : value } ? 20:30:32 i haven't use python since 2.4 20:30:32 or something like that 20:30:36 a = {2} 20:30:36 ^ 20:30:36 SyntaxError: invalid syntax 20:30:43 that's a syntax error afaik 20:30:53 why don't you print type(foo)? 20:31:01 bsmntbombdood, ah good pont 20:31:13 20:31:15 aha 20:31:24 that overwides repr stuff yeah 20:43:04 -!- MizardX has joined. 20:47:39 -!- M0ny has quit ("reboot"). 20:52:08 -!- M0ny has joined. 20:56:35 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 21:09:52 meh, too many abstractions, too little documentation, I can't make any sense out of the code 21:11:22 Too many abstractions? No such thing. 21:11:41 * pikhq abstracts away the computer into a butler. 21:11:58 pikhq, there is nothing anywhere indicating what a block of BF code devided by an integer does. 21:12:04 no comments 21:12:11 well one: "# This is a part of Esotope Brainfuck-to-C Compiler." 21:12:13 that is all 21:12:37 * pikhq abstracts away AnMaster 21:13:47 Brainfuck to C isn't that hard 21:13:59 nice regex for that 21:14:11 Gracenotes, optimising compiler duh 21:14:17 Gracenotes, very optimising 21:14:18 lol. 21:14:40 Gracenotes, it constant folds the hello world program on the wiki into PUTS("Hello, World!") 21:15:31 how well does it optimize [loops]? 21:15:41 Gracenotes, that program uses loops 21:15:45 ... 21:15:46 Gracenotes, it does similar crazy shit to LostKingdom. 21:16:29 pikhq, lostkingdom is easy to optimise. Eliminating dead code is the most important bit for LK 21:16:43 apart from basic sorting and offset and such 21:16:57 AnMaster: It still does some crazy stuff to it. 21:18:38 heh, AnMaster can't even compile the output of his compiler 21:18:54 bsmntbombdood, well nor can I compile the stuff esotope outputs for lostking 21:19:14 maybe I should try with clang 21:19:21 since gcc is very inefficient 21:19:39 also I already do better than esotope for some stuff 21:21:22 from esotope: p[8] += 3; PUTC(p[8]); p[8] -= 7; PUTC(p[8]); I output that like p[8]-=4; oc(p[8]+7) oc(p[8]); 21:21:38 for lostking this allows quite a bit of folding adds 21:21:50 even sometimes leading to being able to figure out the constant value for it 21:23:03 http://www.data.gov/ 21:25:35 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:26:49 AnMaster: Can either of these compilers optimize multiplication algorithms to direct multiplications 21:27:10 Or similar; other primitives than +- 21:27:11 Deewiant, mine can't currently, but I'm working on doing that right atm! 21:27:17 esotope can? 21:27:19 if you mean like that in bf text gen 21:27:21 Deewiant, not sure 21:27:29 !bf_txtgen hello world 21:27:31 102 ++++++++[>++++>+++++++++++++>+><<<<-]>>.---.+++++++..+++.<.>++++++++.--------.+++.------.--------.>++. [287] 21:27:39 [>++++>+++++++++++++>+><<<<-] <-- if you mean like that 21:27:46 I can't read brainfuck at all :-P 21:27:56 But if that does a multiplication, then yes ;-) 21:27:57 Deewiant, then what algos did you mean 21:28:23 Whatever is used to do multiplication in brainfuck; if that's it, then that 21:28:47 Deewiant: ... 21:28:56 Deewiant: That's just a few constants. 21:29:17 pikhq, ,[>++<-] multiplies by two 21:29:31 AnMaster: Well, yes. 21:29:34 destructive multiplication 21:29:56 pikhq, the fact that it multiplies by a constant is, overall, irrelevant! 21:30:11 it just means it can constant fold the multiplication later 21:30:41 ,[>++<-]. should become putc(getchar() << 1) 21:30:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 21:30:56 or earlier, since previous passes will already have transformed the loop in ++++++++[>++++>+++++++++++++>+><<<<-] to a "repeat 8 times" 21:31:10 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 21:34:44 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:34:58 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 21:35:29 -!- comex has joined. 21:35:55 so 21:36:32 I want to "partially emulate" a binary 21:36:53 run some parts of the code in emulation, but others on the actual cpu 21:37:04 IIRC qemu does something like that 21:37:14 I tried using softx86 but it appears to suck 21:37:17 dosemu 21:37:20 That's qemu. 21:37:31 It is? 21:37:36 Deewiant: DOSemu only emulates peripherals. 21:37:44 Oh, I didn't know that 21:38:00 On x86_32, it executes the DOS code using virtual x86 mode. 21:38:15 well, I just want it to use real (user mode) memory and stuff 21:38:19 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)"). 21:38:23 comex: Qemu. 21:39:05 pikhq: how do I use qemu to run parts of the code on the actual cpu 21:39:13 It just does. 21:39:18 wat 21:39:31 don't you need kqemu installed for that? 21:39:38 yeah... 21:39:42 but if you have it installed, and run qemu as root, it does automatically 21:39:44 ais523: kqemu lets you run kernel mode code on the actual CPU. 21:39:44 does that work for user-mod eemulation? 21:40:07 I don't know, I'd imagine that would either work even without kqemu, or fail in both cases 21:40:11 wth 21:40:17 Without kqemu, it only can run user-space code. 21:40:20 ** exception error: no function clause matching io_lib:string_char(latin1,356,34,"!\"") 21:40:28 * AnMaster tries to figure out what on earth that means 21:40:43 cool 21:41:08 That's, and dynamic recompiling, is why qemu is faster than Bochs. ;) 21:41:12 it's not an exception 21:41:15 but an exception error 21:41:19 too bad I get errors like 21:41:20 impressive 21:41:21 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 240 21:41:23 and skype doesn't run 21:41:31 ... 21:41:32 :/ 21:41:33 (probably because it's doing something weird on purpose, but nevertheless) 21:42:04 Gracenotes, it is a class of exception in erlang 21:42:38 but I don't even want it to emulate system calls 21:42:43 just pass through for 99% of code 21:42:56 It's supposed to pass through the system calls. 21:42:57 Weird. 21:43:07 the plan was to mprotect the 1% of code, then use a SIGSEGV handler to emulate it 21:44:54 Gracenotes, there are three classes: 'error' (run-time errors, like division by zero, bad match and similar), 'exit' (when a process calls exit(Term)), 'throw' from when you just do throw(Term) 21:45:09 I'm not sure why the difference between the last two is useful 21:46:31 but yeah, softx86 doesn't seem to do protected mode 21:59:09 ah found it, there are reasons for the difference, related to linked processes in erlang, and supervising processes. 21:59:42 too related to the details of Erlang and OTP to explain to a non-erlang programmer 22:02:50 comex: wtf are you doing 22:07:36 data.gov is hot 22:08:31 12:27:33 space messed up by man there 22:08:31 12:27:39 wonder why man sometimes add two spaces 22:08:32 justification 22:08:40 ehird, ah, makes sense 22:08:58 a bit silly to do justified margins with a mono-space terminal 22:09:02 yeah 22:09:04 but meh, can't have everything 22:09:22 hm... idea: mixed formatting terminal 22:09:28 like a normal terminal most of the time 22:09:49 but with control codes that can change it to use different fonts in a section and such 22:09:57 non-mono-space 22:10:02 and possibly graphics too 22:10:06 not sure if it has been done 22:10:12 framebuffer 22:10:20 ehird, yes, but not under X 22:10:27 you could emulate a fb in x 22:10:30 *an 22:10:36 *a 22:10:42 *fffffff 22:10:46 ehird, and usually if you exit the app that uses the framebuffer all the stuff from it is gone from scrollback 22:10:59 ehird, which wouldn't happen with my idea 22:11:09 rather you could scroll back to that 22:11:26 AnMaster: plan9 graphics system 22:11:57 ehird, hm need to use it more 22:12:14 [[‘We did not know that child abuse was a crime,’ says retired Catholic archbishop. ]] 22:12:32 AnMaster: mm 22:12:33 *blink* 22:12:44 AnMaster: [[We all considered sexual abuse of minors as a moral evil, but had no understanding of its criminal nature. ]] 22:12:49 is the actual quote 22:12:58 ehird, where is it from 22:13:02 http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/05/21/‘we-did-not-know-that-child-abuse-was-a-crime’-says-retired-catholic-archbishop/ 22:13:28 Nice :-D 22:13:35 Bit detached from reality ther 22:13:35 e 22:13:42 Some what 22:13:51 Deewiant: Wut 22:14:02 ehird: Somewut 22:14:13 :D 22:14:15 Deewiant: Oh you mean somewhat 22:14:19 IT'S NOT TWO WORDS <__< 22:14:32 ehird: "What" isn't "wut" either 22:14:35 True. 22:14:45 I was using the space as emphasis, actually 22:14:56 As the flipside of that, here is the title of the post right below it: 22:14:57 [[My school blocks www.atheist.net and categorizes it as adult language, is this a suppression of alternate beliefs?]] 22:14:58 Like a pause between "some" and "what" 22:14:59 YES IT IS 22:15:03 THEY ARE TRYING TO SUPPRESS YOU 22:15:08 IT IS NOT AN ERROR IN THE CONTENT FILTER AT ALL 22:15:20 REBEL! REBEL! FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER LOLOLOLOLOL 22:22:46 ehird, 22:22:48 int main(void) { 22:22:48 os("Hello World!"); 22:22:48 p[0]=100; 22:22:48 p[2]=33; 22:22:48 p[4]=87; 22:22:49 p+=2; 22:22:51 return 0; 22:22:53 } 22:22:55 in-between, working tree 22:22:58 now remove the tape accesses 22:23:17 -!- nooga has joined. 22:23:18 ehird, need to fix "crash due to outputting a char with the value of 823" first. 22:23:19 :P 22:23:45 which is [ X rem 256 || X <- Str ] 22:24:08 * AnMaster loves list comprehensions 22:24:32 ehird, and yes DCE from end is planned. Part of the code needed for it is already in place. 22:24:44 FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU 22:24:55 ehird, are you on Arch or OS X now? 22:25:11 AnMaster: os x, arch only booted via the grub console on the livecd and x didn't work first time 22:25:16 GG (polish IM) servers are dead 22:25:19 then I spilled some coke and decided to give up 22:25:27 ehird, uh. ok 22:25:34 ehird, you aren't persistent enough IMP 22:25:35 nooga: Gadu-Gadu's dead? 22:25:36 IMO* 22:25:42 AnMaster: i spent a good while on it fyi 22:25:43 yep 22:25:53 anmaster: what language is that 22:25:54 ehird, only because of wrong cd 22:25:57 everything, all servers are down 22:25:59 comex, erlang 22:26:00 AnMaster: nope 22:26:07 nooga: shut down or just glitch 22:26:57 nope, since 20:00 all of 40 servers are dead 22:27:04 shut down or just glitch 22:27:04 which 22:27:15 thing with erlang and bf compiling: Erlang only have bignums. Thus you need to manually correct values to be in range 22:27:19 a bit irritating 22:27:22 http://gg.thinkspire.org/ 22:27:29 AnMaster: *waves Haskell and its Int8 type in your face* 22:27:30 especially for negative ones 22:27:54 ehird, yeah sure, I'm not saying other languages doesn't have it 22:28:15 ehird, and if I wanted to be sadistic I could do all my calculations inside 8 bit binaries 22:28:29 but that is painful 22:28:32 err 22:28:45 the other way around 22:28:54 wut? 22:28:58 masochistic you mean 22:29:01 yeah 22:29:03 the other way around 22:29:36 it would look like: <> = <<(FirstValue + Second Value):8/integer-native>> 22:30:10 ehird, and why do you think I treat - as "add 255" not "substract 1" 22:30:11 :P 22:30:25 AnMaster: add -1, foo 22:30:44 ehird, when I see a - in the input I make a node {add, 255} 22:31:03 ehird, simplifies calculations 22:31:38 AnMaster: *waves Haskell and its Int8 type in your face* <-- shouldn't that be UInt8? 22:31:50 AnMaster: that's not mathematical! 22:32:05 ehird, but how do I decide if I want signed or unsigned 22:32:18 yeah 22:32:21 time to code ~\ 22:32:22 AnMaster: you mean Word8 22:32:30 that also 22:32:35 well, BF uses unsigned 8 bit cells 22:32:39 so that is what you need 22:32:43 see oerjan 22:32:47 righgt 22:32:49 right* 22:33:14 also, signed or unsigned is completely equivalent for wrapping BF 22:33:29 oerjan, Um what 22:33:42 oerjan: tru dat 22:33:52 AnMaster: BF cannot distinguish whether it is using signed or unsigned 22:33:56 yep 22:34:09 all it cares about is how many incs/decs until you return to 0 22:34:10 AnMaster: -128 to 127 22:34:10 hm 22:34:11 is the same as 22:34:13 err 22:34:14 0 to 255 22:34:16 it will break output 22:34:17 for BF 22:34:18 ooh, interesting: IRC is officially assigned TCP port 194 22:34:24 and/or input 22:34:24 even though everyone runs it on 6667 anyway 22:34:29 AnMaster: (char) 22:34:30 ais523, old news 22:34:34 AnMaster: that's just a matter of conversion to characters 22:34:35 yes, I know 22:34:39 as in, it isn't news at all 22:34:40 just a fact 22:34:44 but I only just discovered it 22:34:47 ais523: i doubt anyone else knew 22:34:54 i didn't, for instance 22:34:56 so it's news to me 22:35:01 well, I suppose so 22:35:04 * oerjan didn't either 22:35:12 ehird, I knew 22:35:16 it's not like now is a particularly appropriate moment to announce that IRC is on port 194 22:35:21 AnMaster: that's nice. 22:35:23 you're 1 person 22:35:27 which is why I'm not treating it as news 22:35:36 I know various ircd developers who know 22:36:02 I also know some ircd developers who _didn't_ know, which worries me more 22:36:10 why? 22:36:21 ehird, you should know the protocol you are working with 22:36:22 why is knowing that the useless tcp assignment for irc is 194 helpful to implementing the IRC protocol 22:36:23 pattar 22:36:26 apart from elitism? 22:36:28 AnMaster: it's not the protocol 22:36:35 the protocol is described in its entirety by a few RFCs 22:36:39 its port assignment is irrelevant 22:36:52 the only argument for "ircd developers must know it" is elitism 22:36:55 ehird, no it isn't. Nobody fully follows the RFCs 22:37:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:37:02 AnMaster: so? 22:37:04 wow 22:37:06 AnMaster: guess what 22:37:08 a lot of stuff aren't documented in the RFCs, but is used by everyone 22:37:10 AnMaster: NOBODY USES THAT PORT 22:37:18 ehird, actually, I seen it used 22:37:21 *snap! logical snare set by yourself* 22:37:26 AnMaster: and I'm sure there are pure-IRC servers too 22:37:36 ehird, ircnet. That is it. 22:37:38 but port 194 is irrelevant as implementing purely what the RFC says. 22:37:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:37:44 Q.E.D. 22:37:45 oerjan: explain please -> http://www.insults.net/html/swear/norwegian.html 22:37:45 and even them aren't 100% pure 22:38:40 nooga, there are translations... 22:39:14 but why "penisfuteral" :C 22:39:15 * oerjan didn't know about "fleskepanne" 22:39:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:40:11 what's the difference between: snurebass and snabel? 22:40:11 nooga: i'm not sure all of those are quite often used 22:40:30 the search is broken on that site 22:40:31 nooga: they're both just amusing words 22:41:40 the first really means "spinning top" (as in toy), the second means "trunk" (as in elephant) 22:42:32 the latter word is the same in Swedish. But I never heard it as a alias for that thing 22:42:44 as in snabel == Elephant trunk 22:43:19 dra meg hardt i rompehara / 22:43:19 knull meg hardt og fort - fuck me hard and fast 22:43:20 ↑ this is also the norweigan mating ritual 22:43:33 runknisse = wanking gnome 22:43:33 :D 22:43:47 "dra meg baklengs inn i fuglekassa" is afaik by a bird character from a norwegian puppet movie 22:43:51 mus = mouse (i.e. vagina) 22:43:51 mouse, vagina, what's the difference 22:44:13 rape = to burb 22:44:13 wat 22:44:15 ehird, the difference between a rat and a cat 22:44:16 :P 22:44:40 "dra meg hardt i rompehåra" actually means "pull my ass hairs hard" 22:44:50 [[Jeg spretta søstra di mens den tilbakestående 22:44:50 faren din sto bak og fumlet med ballene mine. 22:44:51 = I stretched your sisters ass 22:44:53 while your retarded dad stood 22:44:55 behind me and fumbled my balls]] 22:44:58 The Aristocrats! 22:45:19 hm 22:45:54 ehird: lol :DS 22:49:13 os("\nBrainfuck Edition v0.11\n\nTo read the back-story enter '!'.\nFor a list of commands enter '?'.\n"); 22:49:26 AnMaster: not exactly hard on generated code is it 22:49:35 ? 22:49:46 ehird, hm? 22:49:56 like lostkng 22:50:00 ehird, It constant folded quite a few strings in lostking, not all yet 22:50:07 since I can't handle all polynoms 22:50:13 ehird, and that one was lostking 22:50:19 ehird: Except that there's only so many ways for *most* people to do stuff in Brainfuck. ;) 22:50:26 pikhq: true 22:50:29 but lostkng is not realistic 22:50:57 ehird, doing partial loop unrolling halved the output size btw 22:51:00 AnMaster: Would you like the PEBBLE and PFUCK source to test with, as well? 22:51:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 22:51:26 from 789k to 420k 22:52:04 and I can't yet unroll if the constant is unknown, since I haven't yet coded a generic polynom node. This is for the simpler ones. 22:52:14 the more complex ones I'll work on tomorrow 22:52:36 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:55:18 anybody tried to do genetic programming in bf? ;o 22:55:37 uh 22:55:39 like 22:55:42 !bf_txtgen foo 22:55:45 49 ++++++++++[>++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.+++++++++..>. [60] 22:56:13 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:57:42 what's the algo? 22:57:45 also I have plans to in the future read everything into a graph of some kind. And then prune unreferenced nodes. It seems like an interesting way to handle constant propagation 22:57:48 nooga, genetic 22:57:52 !info 22:57:53 EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ 22:58:00 the source for that one is in there somewhere 22:58:03 wow 22:58:10 has web browser thing 22:58:18 nooga, however it is coded in java, to generate the bf 22:58:20 not coded in bf 22:58:27 not sure if that is what you meant 22:58:34 uhm 22:59:42 but still, some optimizer should be applied and clean up things like >><<<< to << 23:00:25 nooga: oh that point is part of a fixed template 23:00:39 it always uses 4 cells in that loop 23:00:52 (+ the loop counter) 23:00:54 bud doing >><< is for nothing 23:01:00 but* 23:01:20 nooga: it will be used for any complicated text 23:01:35 it's just because foo is so short 23:02:04 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 23:02:06 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [350] 23:02:09 also, EgoBot doesn't run the genetic algorithm very long, so it's not optimal even for that 23:02:23 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 23:02:25 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [317] 23:02:28 huh 23:02:31 it usually does better 23:02:33 even here 23:02:34 102 23:02:37 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 23:02:39 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [706] 23:02:43 meh 23:02:58 it seems to be deterministic... 23:03:08 !bf_textgen i eat slugs or hedgehogs 23:03:15 heh 23:03:20 !bf_txtgen i eat slugs or hedgehogs 23:03:23 183 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++>++<<<<-]>>>.>++.<<<----.----.>----.>>.<<-.>+++.<++.<++++++.>--.>>.<+++.<-.>>.<<----------.---.-.<.>+.<+.>>.<++.>++++.>----------------------. [515] 23:03:23 =.= 23:03:25 i think it has that cached as a special case :D 23:03:38 or maybe it's because of length 23:03:40 oerjan, huh? 23:03:52 er no 23:03:55 haha :D 23:04:05 AnMaster: i didn't notice nooga misspelled the command 23:04:05 yea, i though that it's running so long 23:04:11 but then the typo 23:04:11 ah 23:04:29 the old EgoBot used to run it much slower 23:04:57 !bf_txtgen i eat slugs or hedgehogs 23:05:00 185 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>++>+++++++<<<<-]>.>>++.<<----.----.>----.>.<-.>>+++.<<++.<++++++.>--.>.>+++.+++.<.<-----------.---.-.+++.--.<+.+++++++.>++.>>+.<----------------------. [579] 23:05:11 ah not identical this time 23:05:16 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 23:05:19 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [560] 23:05:46 but always the same on that one 23:06:26 i think the number after is number of generations or something 23:06:35 Yes, it is. 23:07:25 so strangely it reached the same code for Hello, World! 4 times, but after different numbers of generations 23:07:48 perhaps that really is optimal for that method 23:08:08 !bf_txtgen iiiiiiii 23:08:11 47 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+........>++. [513] 23:08:16 um 23:08:34 i think it includes the newline 23:08:42 new EgoBot tends to do that 23:09:41 yep it does 23:10:27 That particular 126-character version seems to be the one it ends up with a very high probability. 23:10:36 Though sometimes rather slowly. 23:10:36 maybe it should use annealing, or something? 23:10:38 126 +++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++++++>+++++>+<<<<-]>.>++.+++++++..+++.>-.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>+. [5700] 23:10:49 +++[>+<-----]>++........ 23:10:52 ;) 23:11:49 nooga, ? 23:11:58 "iiiiiiii" 23:12:51 um no 23:13:00 !bf +++[>+<-----]>++........ 23:13:01 iiiiiiii 23:13:07 huh 23:13:13 ;P 23:13:13 oh division 23:14:01 and who's awesome? 23:14:05 i'm awesome! 23:15:27 we need better string generator 23:15:57 nooga: are you messing around with wraparound there? 23:16:16 sure 23:16:25 is it forbidden? 23:16:28 (259+256)/5+2 == 105. 23:16:36 !bf ++[>-<+++++++]>+.----. 23:16:37 ok 23:17:28 aww my shrips have rotten 23:17:35 shrips? 23:17:57 shrimps 23:18:01 "shrip is an application for ripping and encoding DVDs into AVI, OGM, MKV, or MP4 files." 23:18:07 -.- 23:18:18 nooga: you rotten pirate you 23:18:19 !bf -.- 23:18:19 It might've been about ripped DVDs and bitrot. 23:18:19 23:18:35 ib_block_info.erl:335: The pattern 'false' can never match the type 'unknown' | {'false',pos_integer()} <-- I think dialyzer went insane. As far as I can see the type is wrong.... And isn't listed anywhere 23:18:36 now ÿ is the smiley 23:18:57 combining diaeresis v 23:19:13 v? 23:19:13 diarrhea 23:19:47 AnMaster: [combining diaeresis] [v] 23:19:53 mhm 23:20:05 ehird, all I saw was a plain v 23:20:14 AnMaster: that's all i typed 23:20:15 ffs 23:20:19 O_o 23:20:20 ah 23:20:24 i can't type a combining diaeresis 23:20:27 so i provided a recipe 23:20:27 thought you mean it was there on the line 23:20:29 just add keyboard 23:20:34 ehird: combining diaeresis v 23:20:43 combining as 23:20:49 ehird, hm I tried that here, didn't work 23:20:59 my such key only works for a few... 23:21:00 strange 23:21:11 AnMaster: its not combining 23:21:18 if you type ë it gives the one character 23:21:19 ÿ 23:21:20 ẅëẗÿüïö 23:21:23 for example 23:21:26 yes 23:21:29 those are single chars 23:21:32 ehird, oh 23:21:32 instead of [combiner][char] 23:21:37 ¨v 23:21:41 You put the Unicode combining characters after the to-be-combined thing, though. 23:21:42 v¨ 23:21:49 nooga, looks separate 23:21:49 how 23:21:57 nooga, that isn't a combiner 23:22:05 v̈ should work if you renderize it right. 23:22:24 how to type the thing 23:22:30 ÿ 23:22:32 fizzie: it does 23:22:34 so cute 23:22:38 v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈v̈ 23:22:45 v̈ v̈ v̈ v̈ 23:22:51 fizzie: is there a ) on side character? 23:23:01 ehird: ü 23:23:22 that's not a ) 23:23:27 that's a u 23:23:32 http://img.moronail.net/img/0/3/903.jpg 23:25:10 You mean ") rotated 90 degrees", not "combining ) that's on one side of the target"? 23:25:17 former 23:25:36 Something like in a͡a? 23:25:52 fizzie: that's a ( 23:26:06 Depends on which way you rotate it. But there's the other too. 23:26:17 fizzie: that, but lower, with a ¨ on top 23:26:49 Oh, right, you don't need a combining thing. Well, that's easier. 23:28:27 I'm not sure which block it would be in... there's a very low thing, but it's also a bit wide, I'm not sure where the diaeresis would render. ∼̈ 23:29:28 Oh, here it is. ⌣̈ 23:29:32 heh 23:29:41 fizzie: the umlaut gives a ridge to the ) which is up at the top 23:29:45 how do you type it? 23:30:26 "SeekFind.org is a unique “Christian-content-only” search engine. The major search engines such as Google, Yahoo, MSN, and Ask often produce quality results for searches related to Christian terms. However, mixed in with these search results will be results from pages attacking the Christian faith and/or presenting unbiblical views. For example, a search for “Jesus Christ” at Google will result in page 1 listings from the Mormon church, a genealo 23:30:28 gical service, and a secular history of views about Jesus. " 23:30:30 Well, there's a boring old bottom parenthesis, ⏝. But that's pretty low. 23:30:31 nooga: you don't 23:30:37 fizzie: no, that's perfect 23:30:39 ¨ + that plz 23:30:42 ... 23:30:45 it isn't in my font... 23:31:11 Hmm, I don't remember where I got the bottom parenthesis from. ⍨ 23:31:23 (That last one is "APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL TILDE DIAERESIS = smirk" 23:31:46 bah 23:31:49 ⏝̈ 23:31:52 HAHA 23:31:53 awesome 23:32:12 It's a bit sideways in my font, but... 23:32:22 fizzie: http://imgur.com/f0gbm.png 23:32:52 http://img.moronail.net/img/3/2/1232.jpg 23:32:57 Right, it's not very centered. Well, maybe it's a style issue. 23:33:13 fizzie: it looks nicer like that 23:33:15 more fun 23:33:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:33:52 You can do the same with the "lower half circle" too, though not sure how that'd look like. ◡̈ 23:34:00 !bfjoust ais523_attackslow [>[-]-[+]+] 23:34:01 Score for ais523_attackslow: -1 (maximum 13) 23:34:25 fizzie: awesome 23:34:54 fizzie: http://imgur.com/4f04t.png 23:35:01 The small ⌣ is "U+2323 SMILE" from the "miscellaneous technical" set, one would think that's a very smileable character. 23:35:09 :D 23:35:41 ⌤ looks very unhappy. 23:35:55 :P 23:35:55 -!- coppro has joined. 23:35:58 awwwww 23:36:06 hi coppro 23:36:50 I wonder who's been thinking up those also-known-as aliases for the APL symbol set. ⍤ is known as "hoot", ⍥ as "holler". 23:36:54 hmm... EgoBot seems to be counting draws as losses, then halving the result 23:36:54 aw? 23:36:57 disappointed? 23:37:12 coppro: 23:35 fizzie: ⌤ looks very unhappy. 23:37:20 fizzie: brilliant 23:37:40 ehird: that character isn't in this font 23:37:49 ais523: your loss! 23:37:53 get a better font 23:37:54 heheheh 23:37:56 one with more smilies 23:38:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 23:38:14 It's actually not a smiley; it's the "up arrowhead between two horizontal bars", used to represent the enter key. 23:38:17 http://img.moronail.net/img/8/4/1184.jpg AnMaster: is that correct? 23:38:34 It's right next to the option key symbol ⌥, which isn't very facey. 23:38:45 nooga, correct for what 23:38:47 nooga: I'm sure AnMaster has no idea what you're talking about. 23:39:00 xD 23:39:01 fizzie: right, I had that on my old apple keyboard 23:39:04 more legible though 23:39:12 nooga, it isn't what you usually see. But I guess it happened at least once. 23:39:38 i've been to sweden and i can tell there are MANY of nice females there 23:39:41 one of them has an url on the back of the clothes it seems 23:39:46 but I can't read it 23:39:52 23:39 AnMaster: one of them has an url on the back of the clothes it seems ← this is so AnMaster 23:39:53 but if you could it might help trace it 23:39:54 so, so very AnMaster 23:40:02 ehird, huh 23:40:11 actually it's so AnMaster it wrapped around, stopped being AnMaster, but then went a whole lot further and became very very AnMaster again 23:40:12 http://img.moronail.net/img/7/5/1175.jpg 23:40:14 ehird, the one with the dark skin 23:40:20 try theese 23:40:23 nooga: i see you have discovered a new domain name. 23:40:27 unfortunately, nobody else cares. 23:40:34 nooga, that isn't legal 23:40:38 it is a lie 23:40:41 yea 23:40:46 i'm not that naive :P 23:40:58 AnMaster: Did you also know: the flying spaghetti monster doesn't really exist? 23:41:02 ehird: i don't care if anyone cares 23:41:07 ehird, sure it does! 23:41:09 Tune in for more facts, tomorrow. 23:41:09 ehird: why should I believe you? 23:41:12 Same bat time, same bat channel! 23:41:15 ehird, aren't you a follower? 23:41:20 if so, become one! 23:41:20 ais523: Because, as above, I am batman. 23:41:26 shame 23:41:33 AnMaster: you don't have enough slack. 23:41:34 ehird: of course it does, the orbital teapot told me so! 23:41:43 ehird, hm? 23:41:47 AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius 23:41:55 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:44:40 ehird, hm question... 23:45:00 would using a DAC for representing a stretch of BF code and the dependencies in it be sane? 23:45:05 DAC? 23:45:15 err 23:45:17 DAG 23:45:18 typoed 23:45:22 oh graph thing? 23:45:24 yes 23:45:27 graphs are always right, just ask oklopol 23:45:38 ehird, well the question is: What sort of grap 23:45:40 graph* 23:45:54 the most pure and eso one you can find 23:46:05 okay 23:46:19 now i'm SubGenius follower 23:46:26 oh god 23:46:39 ehird: oklopol is gravely mistaken. nearly half of all graphs are in fact, left. 23:46:39 someone introduce nooga to a less high-brow joke religion to save them 23:46:44 oerjan: o 23:46:48 ehird, nah, I want something practical, useful and easy to work with 23:47:00 AnMaster: then gtfo #esoteric and go to #BORING or something 23:47:27 ehird, if it means I can compile LostKing into a readable C program? ;P 23:47:34 (no probably not that far) 23:48:01 what's the LostKink? 23:48:05 lostkink 23:48:13 nooga, you fail at reading 23:48:19 i think there must some typo energy here today 23:48:21 AnMaster: i think, 23:48:23 that he is trying to be funny 23:48:29 that is my in-depth analysis 23:48:29 ehird, he isn't 23:48:29 no 23:48:31 AnMaster: correct 23:48:34 i'm just retarded 23:48:37 continue 23:48:38 nooga: also correct 23:48:42 we're on a roll of correctness toda 23:48:43 y 23:49:11 oerjan, best graph to represent BF instructions with dependencies and so on 23:49:16 oerjan, got any bright idea 23:49:26 IO needs to be ordered in this properly somehow 23:49:41 not sure how to handle loops 23:49:52 especially unbalanced ones 23:50:02 AnMaster: erm you put every instruction as a vertex, and put an edge between if they cannot be swapped 23:50:14 oerjan, what about loops 23:50:21 not sure 23:50:33 yay, gg servers started 23:50:51 oerjan, for unbalanced ones I think the best you can do is to start building a new such network after the loop 23:51:05 for balanced ones you SHOULD be able to do something better 23:51:05 might have to treat loops as substructures which are graphs themselves, as well as vertices in the large one 23:51:08 not sure what 23:51:17 oerjan, hm interesting 23:52:45 for balanced ones you should at least be able to detect which cells they can touch, and swap the whole loop with things that don't touch that 23:52:50 (assuming no IO 23:52:51 ) 23:53:09 oerjan, I can do that already by tracking a dict of how cells are touched for each loop 23:53:21 that is how I can figure out if a loop can turn into if and such 23:54:03 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:54:22 AnMaster: also, that topological sort page mentioned scheduling as an application, so i am sure there is already research on how to apply this to programming languages 23:54:28 which i don't know 23:54:38 oerjan, yes it is what got me thinking... 23:54:51 (about this) 23:57:04 nooga: so i take it gg wasn't a victim of the economic crisis yet? 23:57:18 probably ;p 23:59:26 how come that you know what gg is 23:59:40 it's polish only invention ;p