< 1243297224 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1243297351 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-192.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243298088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1243299827 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-10-58.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243299959 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1243300024 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1243300875 0 :Patashu!n=Patashu@c122-106-162-185.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1243301227 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-192.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243303364 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1243303708 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-55-153.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243304585 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243306580 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1243306917 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243307078 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1243307455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1243308090 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@75-106-100-192.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243310492 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243310872 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-194.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243310982 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1243311417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1243313703 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-192.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243314141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in theory, Unicode works. < 1243314180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :«¡The composé key works!» < 1243314209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing what having your local set right can do. < 1243314219 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1243315114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locale, even. < 1243315294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode, I declare, is a great boon. What sayeþ ye, men and women and small fuzzy creatures, of all þat is Esolang? < 1243315832 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Υεα < 1243316558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1243317641 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is evil < 1243317644 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ascii forever < 1243317791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ɹәʌәu < 1243321634 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243321820 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode 4ever < 1243321847 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1243321855 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1243322064 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1243322433 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-68.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1243323039 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243323867 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243324163 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1243324799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1243324800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1243326339 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1243331558 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@c-76-105-254-150.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243331887 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-104-92.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243332124 0 :impomatic!n=impomati@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243332517 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243332751 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-140-244.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243333234 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243333341 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243333518 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-89-123.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243334198 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243336320 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-125-097.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1243339924 0 :lereah_!n=lereah@nanpc319.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243340004 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-87-187.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243340889 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243342220 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"What are you sinking about?" < 1243343047 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1243343116 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-2-95.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243343149 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://may.2chan.net/27/res/117551.htm < 1243343153 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :King of threads < 1243343175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1243344601 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-194-31-231.zone8.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243346201 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-68-157.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243346580 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243347440 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243348487 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243348832 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-104-196.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243350447 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-55-238.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243350466 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243351372 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1243352369 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1243352524 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243352540 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1243352629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1243352639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles at the hill still apparently being upside-down < 1243352673 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hill? < 1243352686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: BF Joust < 1243352691 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1243352694 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with it? < 1243352697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was meant to be a tournament running here < 1243352704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the current code eliminates all the good programs < 1243352706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than all the bad ones < 1243352711 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1243352716 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip a < to a >? ;) < 1243352733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, suicide, the worst BF Joust program theoretically possible, is still there < 1243352749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it loses every game, unless the opponent uses the same strategy, in which case it's a draw < 1243352777 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-114-39.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243352788 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have control over the code or is it someone else's bungle? < 1243352817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in GregorR (or GregorR-L) 's code < 1243352947 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen someone get a KOTH upside down before so it must be pretty easy to do :-) < 1243352965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, something as simple as a reversed test could to it < 1243352968 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it'll be fixed soon. I assume the hill will then run forever? < 1243352989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case it's the fact that an array's the other way round to what GregorR thinks < 1243352993 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any 'program vs program' languages besides corewar, fukyourbrane and BF joust? < 1243352994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, probably for ages, anyway < 1243353000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, the hill is still up < 1243353008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: quite a few, I think; but only corewar is really popular < 1243353027 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree about BF joust with other people who've noted there's only one way to go about winning < 1243353032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any more < 1243353040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the revised version, there are at least three strategies < 1243353050 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1243353058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done quite well with defence programs, which wait to be attacked then try to trick the opponent off the end of the tape < 1243353069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dropping the flag to 0 for one cycle, then back up again < 1243353072 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243353080 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1243353089 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1243353111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that strategy is a) one of the best, but b) very very hard to pull off well < 1243353160 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a defensive program too before the hill was changed. I've got a copy of the 20 warriors from the old hill so I can resubmit it when the hill has been fixed. < 1243353177 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any plans for more opcodes? < 1243353192 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes not ;-) < 1243353194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: it just wouldn't be BF then < 1243353207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 has a version with input from the opponent's NOPs, although I don't see the point < 1243353239 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input from the opponent's NOPs? what does that mean < 1243353272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: well, . does output in BF < 1243353283 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1243353288 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a description on the discussion page of the BF Joust wiki page. < 1243353291 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds a bit silly though < 1243353297 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can simulate a NOP with <><> or whatever < 1243353303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1243353308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a one-cycle NOP is useful for parity reasons < 1243353320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and messing about with <> or >< or even +- can be very dangerous in BF Joust < 1243353327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the end of hte tape < 1243353358 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't sound like a very well-founded concept in any case < 1243353360 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it makes BF-sense < 1243353378 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you'd never WANT to tell your opponent anything < 1243353384 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why make a command for it? :P < 1243353410 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed to use a one-cycle NOP in one of my programs to get the timing right < 1243353512 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe , could get the value of your opponent's pointer or the value under your opponent's pointer or something < 1243353525 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1243353537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: same here < 1243353542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attack5 uses quite a lot of them < 1243353549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a counter-defence attack program < 1243353563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it can confuse about half of genuine attack programs by setting decoy cells to -6 < 1243353567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they aren't expecting < 1243353659 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: see http://aiforge.net for a programming games forum and about 1500 links. < 1243353676 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1243353678 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fighting programmable robot games < 1243353713 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sumost.ca/steve/games is also a decent page < 1243353761 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a few which don't involve robots, but most of the ones I've looked at are similar to Corewar < 1243354913 0 :Patashu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com ." < 1243354951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: corewar question: how effective is using SPL 0, rather than a goto, to create a loop? < 1243355401 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a SPL 0 at the head of the loop and let the processes drop off the end, the loop will be 1 cycle slower. < 1243355410 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processes take 1 cycle to execute the DAT which kills them. < 1243355481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're planning to spawn a load of processes anyway, though, it might be worth it < 1243355497 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the loop can only be killed by destroying the SPL. Damaging any other instruction won't kill the loop, just damage it. < 1243355510 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's best to have a SPL 0 at the top and a JMP at the end :-) < 1243355520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1243355547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was vaguely thinking of setting up some sort of huge number of imp spirals < 1243355561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting thread limit, so that anti-paper strategies wouldn't work < 1243355567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hoping that at least one survived to overwrite the opponent < 1243355569 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But occasionally the instructions are out of sync, but it doesn't really matter. Also it means the loop reverse! < 1243355646 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes ages to hit the process limit. It's normally 8000 processes. < 1243355652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1243355656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it varied by hill < 1243355660 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An opponent can clear the core in that time. < 1243355672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least, churning out your own threads will reduce the impact of a SPL-based bomb < 1243355694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an imp spiral swarm would tend to intrinsically dodge core-clears < 1243355701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/3 chance it misses once you're down to one imp < 1243355725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what warriors do after the core-clear ends < 1243355740 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :max processes is normally the same as coresize, the the same applies to the other hills, e.g. nano hill = 80 cells, 80 cycles to clear it with d-clear, 80 maxprocesses. < 1243355773 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just keep clearing over and over, just in case they missed a mobile warrior first time round. < 1243355781 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the #corewars channel has moved to freenode :-) < 1243355791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is it corewar or corewars? < 1243355802 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately koth.org is closing down :-( < 1243355826 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The official name of the game is Core War. < 1243355856 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corewar is more common though. < 1243356213 0 :Gracenotes_!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1243356246 0 :Gracenotes_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gracenotes < 1243356586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I return. < 1243356596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ISIDTID? < 1243356620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "I disappear yesterday therefore I return." < 1243356627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1243356632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all depends on what returning means < 1243356651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existing. < 1243356652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being/ < 1243356654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In here. < 1243356833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moans at the upside-down hill < 1243357006 0 :OoS!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243357598 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, where'd my server go? < 1243357619 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like all of Slicehost is unusually sequestered. < 1243357620 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243357620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: well, I can log into it < 1243357622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's the one I think < 1243357627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm online there right now < 1243357645 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you get a login prompt at s2.normish.org? I can't. < 1243357649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1243357655 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now I can. Never mind. < 1243357661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong static discharge from my chair! < 1243357663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1243357688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1243357692 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"from __future__ import skynet" < 1243357711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1243357737 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION successfully remembers half of his password. < 1243357749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lot of static discharges here today... Strange. < 1243357754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: do you want me to change your password, using my scammed root powers? < 1243357755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from anything in metal at all. < 1243357775 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have scammed root powers on s2.normish.org? < 1243357785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone has any idea for a reason? < 1243357787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, probably not s2 < 1243357790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a different server < 1243357793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just on the main normish.org < 1243357813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So kerlo's now paying $50/month so that he can develop a new normish separately on the live deployment environment? < 1243357820 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1243357826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like what I wanted to do originally, and was faced with "WHY DON'T YOU JUST DEVELOP IT LOCALLY FOO" < 1243357831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmm. < 1243357837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the "new normish" isn't actually a nomic < 1243357846 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, anyway. < 1243357848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise there'd be no point < 1243357852 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1243357865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not develop it locally? It is a good point IMO. < 1243357881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I developed the old system locally < 1243357885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it even works, sort of < 1243357885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was pointing out some hypocrisy, and I'm not exactly in a mood to go into Talk To AnMaster Very Carefully And Slowly mode. < 1243357907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is an old flamewar lasting weeks from several months ago < 1243357908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've been watching kerlo ask things like how to avoid SQL injection with a PHP registration system in Sine. Cringeworthy that he administrates Normish >_< < 1243357909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're missing contest < 1243357913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... < 1243357917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*context < 1243357917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly flamewar < 1243357925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it did cause me to shun you for weeks < 1243357927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more strong disagreement with additional fire :) < 1243357929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather out of character for me < 1243357947 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I now know how to avoid SQL injection, I think. :-P < 1243357981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next up: How to escape HTML! With ASP.NET -or- ColdFusion -or- PHP! < 1243357986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bad-but-works way = proper escaping, good-and-works-better-and-is-easier-way = parameterized or stored queries < 1243357987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 Best Javascript Libraries < 1243357998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 Ways To Monitor Your Site's Uptime!!!! < 1243358008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vomits all over the blagosphere < 1243358021 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parameterized queries. Sounds nice. < 1243358059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's using PHP and uses Windows, I'm pretty sure you're wasting your time :) < 1243358069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure even PHP can do that < 1243358076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can < 1243358091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just pointing out that maybe talking about reasonable best practices and clean design is better given to /dev/null < 1243358113 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds likely. < 1243358143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm staying on Actual Normish, which at least has proper unix tools instead of PHP/MySQL user registration forms. < 1243358183 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I'm planning to have proper Unix tools as well. < 1243358200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: The user database is in MySQL, is it not? < 1243358209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, not Unix accounts. Therefore, no, no you're not. < 1243358248 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some magical force preventing me from having each user in the database have a linked Unix account? < 1243358263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts his head through a wrangler to forget what you just said < 1243358289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to unhear things. Unsuccesfully. < 1243358293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the correct way to do that would be to write a mysql backend that stores data in /etc/passwd < 1243358306 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds kind of weird. < 1243358310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is correct for values of "DEAR GOD KILL ME". < 1243358319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We're doomed. < 1243358328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making an underground bunker < 1243358363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was trying to think up the sanest way to achieve what kerlo wanted; the fact that it's insane implies the original request was insane < 1243358384 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame youth. < 1243358395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could clone the internet, put kerlo in it, wait 3 years, then destroy the cloned internet and let him on the real one < 1243358398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's our only hope < 1243358423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: err, why? < 1243358435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The sanest way involves a PAM module. < 1243358450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the very existence of this insane "Normish s2" may collapse the whole internet < 1243358452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that reads a MySQL database? < 1243358456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least severely damage it < 1243358471 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1243358497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not saying it's very sane, mind. < 1243358523 0 :OoS!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :impomatic < 1243358526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think PAM's tied into the UNIX UID system for files < 1243358552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, creating MySQL table rows wouldn't magically create users for any purpose other than logging in < 1243358604 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, people who are significantly intelligent and/or knowledgeable than me. Suppose I want people to have Unix accounts and I also want to track various bits of information about those people. < 1243358620 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is creating the accounts and then using YAML that references their usernames the best way to accomplish that? < 1243358630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1243358633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use proper files, dammit. < 1243358637 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1243358644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real, unix, plain text, lightweight-format FILES. < 1243358676 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is MySQL useful for its intended purpose? If so, perhaps I've forgotten what that purpose is. < 1243358688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be a bad version of PostgreSQL. < 1243358697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PostgreSQL is a program whose purpose is not to be used as a replacement for plaintext files. < 1243358707 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is its purpose, then? < 1243358731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct me if I'm wrong, < 1243358733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just told you < 1243358796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: MySQL is the C of databases < 1243358802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1243358803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to do everything by hand, but it can be very efficient as a result < 1243358807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's an utterly terrible comparison. < 1243358811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1243358817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nothing like C. < 1243358819 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sentence "PostgreQSL is a program whose purpose is not . . ." does not tell me what its purpose is. < 1243358823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's the C++ of databases, as it also has a lot of useless features < 1243358828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: whose purpose is (not ...) < 1243358841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely the C++ of databases. < 1243358850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does a lot of stuff, and does it poorly. < 1243358864 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing about sarcastic statements is that they're not very useful when interpreted as the truth. < 1243358866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C's lean, mean, efficient, it has a clean design, and does what it does completely well. MySQL has its legs the wrong way round. It's not even really fast. It tries to do things and does them all badly. It's built on top of a bad design. < 1243358872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It keeps trying to do more things, and it keeps failing at them. < 1243358876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... no. < 1243358941 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suppose you're the kind of person who would stop using a system if new features were added and those features sucked. < 1243358977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you, kerlo, are the kind of person who will jump to conclusions without basis and then state these matter-of-factly in a deliciously non-sequitur manner. < 1243358994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call me crazy, but. < 1243359048 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be true, but I'm just saying that to pacify you, not because I really believe it, not that I don't believe that I believe it. < 1243359051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL does most everything it does poorly. < 1243359331 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I refuse to use a database system whose name contains four consonants in a row. < 1243359352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: "unix" does not have four consonants in a row. < 1243359372 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now for something not blatantly false: < 1243359399 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you (collectively) recommend switching to PostgreSQL, then? < 1243359408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1243359415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would recommend using Unix properly, dammit. < 1243359471 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, suppose hypothetically that I want to store people's usernames and passwords. < 1243359482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would use proper Unix accounts. < 1243359494 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, suppose I do that. < 1243359502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you wouldn't store their passwords, you'd store the hash of their passwords. < 1243359511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One step at a time. < 1243359517 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's precisely why I said "hypothetically". < 1243359519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think "talk to a three year old". < 1243359539 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1243359599 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-53-125.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1243359624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, use PAM for authentication of these accounts, not manually wrangling /etc/passwd like I just forsighted you doing. Yes, that means a dumbed-down web interface to the Unix tools you have will be a pain to implement due to PAM not being that easy to automate. That's a feature. < 1243359633 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1243359747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you store the password hashes in a different file, so you can make most of the user database user-visible, but not the password hashes < 1243359771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unix. Accounts. < 1243359782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1243359785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/shadw < 1243359796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I know. That's not kerlo's concern. < 1243359800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are tools that handle that. < 1243359844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nanotechnology discoveries: Disks that can store 10000 times more data than a DVD and that can outlive stone inscriptions!" < 1243359848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH NANOTECHNOLOGY < 1243359879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They've further increased the storage density to 1.1 terabytes per cubic centimeter" < 1243359886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1243359888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In a paper published online today in the journal Nature, Gu's group reports recording speeds of about a gigabit per second." < 1243359899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1Gbit/sec writing to media with 1.1TB/cm2. < 1243359902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want. Now. < 1243359912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what its rewrite is like? < 1243359921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although something like that would be amazing even in write-once form < 1243359925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's write-once, yeah < 1243359962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outliving stone inscriptions too < 1243359964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty damn awesome < 1243359971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see, THIS is the ideal backup media < 1243359971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1243359979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1.1TB/cm³ is pretty spiffy. :) < 1243359986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: er, ^3 yeah not 2. < 1243360013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't mess up your backups, you can store all your backups for forever with only a few discs, and backups are instant (assuming sufficiently fast source media) < 1243360019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that would be over a petabyte per litre < 1243360023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and storing a litre isn't that hard < 1243360034 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1243360037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1243360049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no way! < 1243360050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine the bandwidth of a station wagon hurtling down the road with one of this things. < 1243360058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves at Örjan < 1243360062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: been logreading, or just an out-of-content reply? < 1243360068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the latter :D < 1243360072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder how many library of congresses per disc it'd be? < 1243360074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out-of-context reply < 1243360086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well both < 1243360091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ørjan < 1243360102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm guys < 1243360108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pikhq: 1Gbit/sec = 128MB/sec < 1243360112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's rather less impressive < 1243360123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, giga/bit/s < 1243360127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cheating of them < 1243360140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's what internet connections use < 1243360149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe CDs/DVDs/Blu-Ray are measured in that too < 1243360216 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, suppose we let our users log in via the web. If I'm not mistaken, the chief non-weird way to do this is cookies. Would these cookies contain the users' passwords? < 1243360232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARFGH < 1243360237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop coding stop coding stop coding < 1243360268 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forever? < 1243360277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give or take a day < 1243360281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: no, and i can say that without even having read the answer. what about session ID? < 1243360292 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No" is the answer I expected. < 1243360300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: not cookies. < 1243360307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sessions. If you don't know what they are, stop coding some more. < 1243360313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: cookies generally contain autogenerated nonsense that's used to identify a session < 1243360318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the session is used for everything else < 1243360324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just tell him to use PHP sessions < 1243360329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good point < 1243360336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't save him, but we can edge him in a sort of right direction to avoid unspeakable disaster < 1243360340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't have to worry about how they're implemented (even though they're normally implemented with cookies) < 1243360350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, isn't PHP open to session fixation unless you take steps against it? < 1243360358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't think so. < 1243360370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current strategy is attempting to make him outsource as much code as possible to Unix and his language. Less dangerous :) < 1243360394 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads about sessions. < 1243360396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: argh, "One discovery can store way more than a DVD, and the other has a long lifetime. Furthermore, the first one is write-only, and I don't see indications of mass storage for the second." < 1243360399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so two separate things < 1243360416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1243360421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Slashdot lying as usual? < 1243360437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blog title lying to get sensationalist hits < 1243360446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reddit submitter— bet it's the author of the blogspam— using the same title < 1243360463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least slashdot clarifies its sensationalism in the summaries < 1243360503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wait, write-only? you mean it _cannot_ be read again? :D < 1243360509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1243360517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.supersimplestorageservice.com/ < 1243360518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S4! < 1243360521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write-only storage! < 1243360526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Super-secure! Competitive pricing! < 1243360533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C L O U D < 1243360542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write-only? < 1243360545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes! < 1243360548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's provably secure. < 1243360550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, how can you prove they're storing at all? < 1243360557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would they LIE to you < 1243360558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1243360575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, that website has one of the most annoying JS advertising sidebars I've ever seen < 1243360577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's their proof: http://www.supersimplestorageservice.com/secure/s4/pipeline/cache/throughput/proof.aspx < 1243360581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens in Firefox instead < 1243360592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((read carefully)) < 1243360596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I know why I have JS off by default < 1243360638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh it's a joke, must be < 1243360642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look /quite/ like a genuine IIS formatting page < 1243360643 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I ask how to store little bits of information associated with each user another time? < 1243360647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*error page < 1243360650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatting-wise, I mean < 1243360666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, they don't usually reference watching (a) the game, (b) cute kitten videos or (c) female mud wrestling < 1243360670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or people starving in China < 1243360681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's not the text I'm talking about < 1243360684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously different < 1243360686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :p < 1243360739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:57 oerjan: ehird: oh it's a joke, must be < 1243360744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: very AnMaster of you < 1243360748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All complaints and feature requests will be immediately stored using our S4-backed user request database." :D < 1243360751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what? < 1243360783 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i _was_ trying to stretch my mind for a moment thinking of any way it could not be a joke < 1243360784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when is that quote from? < 1243360795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: almost every time you're mentioned, ever < 1243360798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or where you impersonating again... < 1243360802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Amazon allow PUT requests? < 1243360812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one interesting piece of information to come out from that site, if it's true < 1243360814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just see above for a counter example < 1243360816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought PUT requests were dead < 1243360821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was nefariously POSING AS YOU, AnMaster < 1243360830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And making you FORGET WHAT "ALMOST" MEANS < 1243360839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, REST is popular nowadays < 1243360840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think we need secure tripecodes! ~ < 1243360840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice < 1243360844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i mean, _backup_ is sort of write-only in the short term. but it's not anything new so... < 1243360847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but nothing supports PUT < 1243360847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever the spelling was) < 1243360854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it does < 1243360882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Micheal Lynton, the guy who said 'I'm a guy who doesn't see anything good having come from the Internet. Period.' has posted an editorial at the Huffington Post titled Guardrails for the Internet, in which he defends his comment, and suggests that just as the interstate system needs guardrails, so too does the information superhighway.]] < 1243360888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries < 1243360890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=g--DKTemd4TMMMq8aU4EeABuqWILa_aMmkQbyhwzrxbrHtx8tmKmlH7irWC&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f998ca054efbdf2c29878a435fe324eec2511727fbf3e9efc < 1243360892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't PUT used in webdav iirc < 1243360897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I misremember < 1243360898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a genuine paypal link to buy the entire company < 1243360900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523:, you mean < 1243360904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1243360904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeahg < 1243360906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah* < 1243360907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that link doesn't work, it's user-specific < 1243360908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but yes < 1243360914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but I don't have a paypal account < 1243360919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would it not work for me either? < 1243360922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: session < 1243360925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1243360926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user as in person < 1243360928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in agent < 1243360933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the author said that he'd probably refund any actual transactions :-P < 1243360937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which company < 1243360939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why can't you steal my session by following the link? IP-based? < 1243360944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus demonstrating he could never own the lottery < 1243360946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the S4 people < 1243360947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cookie-based? < 1243360958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... cookies /and/ URL seems redundan < 1243360958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm afraid I missed who S4 were < 1243360960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*redundant < 1243360963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SCROLLBACK! < 1243360966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKSCROLLBACKDSKJFHKSDFKSDJFS < 1243360969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no time. < 1243360977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaargh < 1243360980 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1243360981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just waste OUR time instead?! < 1243360990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because clearly only -your- time is valuable < 1243360998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a short one line summary would be enough < 1243361011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apache=147.188.254.232.327301199300722205; KHcl0EuY7AKSMgfvHl7J5E7hPtK=K1qt0zJ42nOKrHXQ512V7BuFW5fs_zXxwdkA8IlYo00HhjwGiO42drcE6jsj5EHtVawXwNuuhXfQnm49; cookie_check=yes; jNS36F3v1LVZP8Qp0a2pJWhXNKy=mpG_l1Xk9WVVMJwKZVHh_9nI392FXiTNMVIAFRlmKad9qdQtn72dqh9D_3Ksf_3nREVnPjQCIKyE4epIJ6zrmi4ZEsW; LANG=en_US%3bUS; navlns=0; cwrClyrK4LoCV1fydGbAxiNL6iG=DctYoOYqVUNLQKpmwSnWT6mVvE5ZBi3RJ8UuNQw5FdKNngFlzJV1MaUVDLge9BcQPU-SGvT- < 1243361013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dqAUo3AQzWWvZ-IHZGNfi0Z7Aw_GC2pam5X39xkdFHQI7ggSNE53QMYBSeyAJ0%7cbqkyg7YNVpHIk_tGrE-68fFnc0kX79Qa913-xSLSZPAMHlyIubz_4wrZrNk2u9vRhHOv7W%7cIMMKtMGhuMz8vkVo7mLi9UQCNkMi6CQhsTCulqkVImjKunHUWsHfINxwd7vLcmfnTR_FYm%7c1243357268; navcmd=_xclick; pNTcMTtQfrJuaJiwEnWXQ6yNxfq=5mv9RU4DctpsQ9re8jiTEh_JImwBUbicIr7FvspGKVQe8hjrwdl_RlC99UYGDLzzp3vd1gAmrIbXQqXt8oETB_fq6Ge1UBpjmfKeevJ8goC2hs5tc3KX_Ho1I6wIgIN0vjhyfY9ftf2FxLYIdIEu8bg7EBQXC- < 1243361014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TVzUYFXxJETr2tshK8PcCE4y5z5tFohs4wYca_1iIRds5Rz1VAhhu84PwLZYw_JAKatkZtmxn84zZYjC-TSp4nhXOFctIUj50m0BTwK8IVThZXxMZ-DgPVnkrX36pzZ4ZxTWdks-7k7i5p8Boqy0JoN-kIeG1qgV4uTn4ajaZP9ZNCsmGOsBCvXvC9cc68-moa-DQxi_oE_0OpF7tE; 6Vt_kuBZl8VlyHAqyfqTECtzKXS=4FmsD86w5SZMRES5DmDJOUf8i2MUEbgVvNrxy-YD1bl1DQlvynIlaY86brrCYbUQzov9tNBAz90bxc47 < 1243361020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brilliant cookies PayPal have! < 1243361027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't do that, you'll use up all of AnMaster's scrollback < 1243361028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know of one S4... And that is an ACPI sleep state < 1243361031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he only has three lines, after all < 1243361047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1243361154 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also bbls. < 1243361435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION buys baby lizards < 1243361458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're going to have trouble looking after them when they grow up! < 1243361482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that wasn't a fact < 1243361485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I AM right back! < 1243361503 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1243361519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually lizard pets are illegal in norway < 1243361524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they changed it < 1243361530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you know why? < 1243361539 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like scaly ferrets < 1243361590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ferrets are cute < 1243361593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: norway has (almost?) no native lizards, i guess is the rationalization < 1243361597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discuss < 1243361614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, to prevent them disrupting the ecosystem? < 1243361634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe. there is a movement to change the law though. < 1243361647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a fun law to challenge < 1243361650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEGALIZE LIZARDS < 1243361671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I will prove that anything written in a higher-level language will not be as fast as my implementation of it in C. I leave this challenge out to anyone to take. (*)" < 1243361675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kill stupid. Kill stupid. < 1243361682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Override mode activated. Kill target sequence initiated. < 1243361759 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-112-123.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243361836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually that's probably not a real reason, as the reason we only have 5 (googled) native reptile species in norway is that it's too cold for others to survive < 1243361844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1243361896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many think the law is stupid. but then occasionally there is a news item about someone's (illegal) snake growing too big for them... < 1243361925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int fact_table[] = { 1, 1, 2, 6, 24, 120, 720, 5040, 40320, 362880, 39916800, 479001600 }; < 1243361926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define factorial(n) fact_table[n] < 1243361937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ most efficient factorial implementation over 32-bit integers :-) < 1243361941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe a switch/case could be faster < 1243361944 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: true dat < 1243361965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, 32-bit is useless for anything involving numbers bigger than your average pony < 1243362007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i'm not a number, i'm a free pony!" < 1243362021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you mentioned slashdot and I tried to read the comments of a post about lisp < 1243362035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people called it LISP, were ignorant about how it can be faster than C in many cases, < 1243362037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on and so forth < 1243362041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I gave up 'cuz it's worse than reddit. < 1243362044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot is an interesting mix < 1243362045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for that :P < 1243362050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do get very interesting comments from time to time < 1243362053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a lot of junk too < 1243362058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't really see any gems < 1243362061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrug < 1243362068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're normally good at checking whether the story is true or not < 1243362134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The service is going to feature in a new unscripted series that will "harness Twitter to put players on the trail of celebrities in an interactive, competitive format". No, I am not sure what that means and there are no further details as yet. ]] < 1243362142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twitter... TV... shoh god. < 1243362171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's even worse than the fictional deliberately bad reality TV program that's the centrepiece of BlogNomic at the moment < 1243362203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have to work http://picoup.com/ into it somehow, then < 1243362210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that site? < 1243362219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Twitter except you only get 18 characters < 1243362224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1243362226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus one @user for free < 1243362229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1243362236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a joke, or as a serious attempt? < 1243362239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :former < 1243362249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if 18 is too verbose for you, http://femto.picoup.com/ lets you have a character and a user reference < 1243362265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :express your feelings like @user !, @user ? and @user … < 1243362271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's one character) < 1243362306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the random usernames feature < 1243362317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently I'm ImpulseLeast < 1243362326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you log on with the same name in future? < 1243362337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you click change it (with JS), you can give it a password < 1243362343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1243362345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, without < 1243362350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't use a nick that isn't either (a) automatically assigned, (b) registered < 1243362358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume it doesn't generate already registered nicks < 1243362373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, any way to follow anyone in particular there? < 1243362384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you click a nick there's a watch link < 1243362404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... well, it might catch on < 1243362417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps :P < 1243363045 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and storing a litre isn't that hard <-- literally trivial < 1243363131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan < 1243363275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2009/05/new-iphone-2009-a-possible-checklist.html ← "And a pony" < 1243363358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no pony and feels cheated. < 1243363610 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-047-220.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1243363674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Any idea how to to do an arrow with the compose key? < 1243363688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AltGr-I gives → for me < 1243363702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't have no stinking AltGr. < 1243363703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope, I just did it the macfag way and made a keyset file with the characters I want triggered on control-option- < 1243363712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :← = control-option-, for me (analogy with <) < 1243363735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to futz with the compose configuration < 1243363749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably stick that on compose <- < 1243363775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1243363781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :……………………… < 1243363804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :……… < 1243363810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :………………………………………… < 1243364116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://namakajiri.net/diary/things-they-asked-me-in-the-us-visa-interview/en/ < 1243364326 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1243364566 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243364639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to make a smaller typeface than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3x3 < 1243364799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes 'tis impossible < 1243364883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3x3? Jeeze. Tiny. < 1243364904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but somehow still readable < 1243364962 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1243365044 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1243365513 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does? >_O < 1243365521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: yes < 1243365532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the list of programs is sorted in reverse order < 1243365534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from worst to best < 1243365539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you eliminate all past the tenth place < 1243365555 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought they were from best to worst! D-8 < 1243365630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: >_< < 1243365632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HATE YOU :P < 1243365636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Also, rewipe the hill. < 1243365640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's all the worst programs now. < 1243365678 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1243365703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: add impomatic_shortsword? < 1243365712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: oh, it'd be nice if you made it automatically prepend nickname_ to the programs < 1243365737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have it on me < 1243365740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll add some of mine < 1243365744 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It takes a REALLY long time to timeout if the programs are unhappy :( < 1243365746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with ais523_ pls < 1243365765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ais523_attack5 [>[-]-.-.-.-.-.-] < 1243365766 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_attack5: -1 (maximum 5) < 1243365779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ais523_defend5 >+>+([{>[(.)*20-]+}]<..........-[++[[]<(-..-.)*300>[>[-]+]]]<(+..+.)*300>[>[-]+])%2000 < 1243365780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, isn't that in the default hill? < 1243365787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that was attack/defend/fool 1 < 1243365790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1243365803 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_defend5: -1 (maximum 6) < 1243365804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: do you think you could do that nick_ prepending thing & rename the default programs to have ais523_? < 1243365810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that plus correct in-channel score reporting = heaven < 1243365815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1243365832 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the default ones should be renamed, they're just examples, but yeah, I can add that. < 1243365846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: er, they're ais523's base warriors < 1243365857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable to prepend ais523_ to me. ais523? < 1243365864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did you mean: pimpomatic shortsword < 1243365870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, they are mine, but they're all pretty simple < 1243365881 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like four characters long :P < 1243365884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, it's just "attack1" vs "ais523_attack5" < 1243365886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty silly < 1243365918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 < 1243365920 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523impomatic_shortsword: -1 (maximum 7) < 1243365929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAIL < 1243365930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolfail < 1243365932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: name_ < 1243365933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not name < 1243365936 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad timing :P < 1243365938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise we'll get impomaticimpomatic < 1243365939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1243365951 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had just added name, then saved, then went "Oh yeah, name_". < 1243365959 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was about a five second span in there where it had name and not name_ < 1243365967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: once you've done that, fix the in-channel reporter, wipe the hill and we can get on with playing < 1243365968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1243365970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: could you just rename the shortsword to the correct name on the hill? < 1243365981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that < 1243365985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also correct in-channel score reporting! < 1243365994 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat65.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1243366009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: good timing < 1243366013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hill is now the right way up < 1243366017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of about 10 minutes ago < 1243366020 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles about ( ) { and } in BF Joust! < 1243366027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: in what way? < 1243366027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: wut? < 1243366035 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing an interpreter in asm! < 1243366042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: oi, rename ais523impomatic_ to impomatic_ kay? :P < 1243366046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: those are just abbreviations, you don't have to handle htem < 1243366055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they make programs a lot faster < 1243366063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to execute, that is, realtime < 1243366065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than in ticks < 1243366066 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Already done. < 1243366074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: oh, but the report didn't regenerate < 1243366076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles about (){} < 1243366082 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No :P < 1243366087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles still more about (){}(); < 1243366094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1243366119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: ok, remaining wishlist, ordered by importance first: (a) correct in-channel score reporting, (b) report doesn't disappear while regenerating, (c) timeouts don't take so long < 1243366126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first two can be fixed by you, last needs ais523 probably < 1243366130 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are names automatically added to submissions now? < 1243366136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: yes < 1243366137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Yus. < 1243366153 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) If you want the actual final score, this can't be done, or at least not quickly, it'd be slooow. < 1243366167 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B) This is actually a big PITA >_> < 1243366170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust bigdecoy >(-)*9>(+)*9>>>>>>>[(+)*6[-]>+] < 1243366180 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C) This I'd love to fix, AIS :P < 1243366185 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_bigdecoy: -3 (maximum 7) < 1243366186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, GregorR-L. < 1243366188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A) is very fixable < 1243366192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It counts wins as losses. < 1243366193 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust stranger >>>>>>>>>([[-][(-)*127(+)*127]]>)*20 < 1243366195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C) by my calculationsm, reducing the timeout to 20000 from 100000 should not affect too many programs < 1243366198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fix that, dammit. < 1243366200 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_stranger: -1 (maximum 8) < 1243366202 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, then it's ais523's fault :P < 1243366207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: And how is (B) a big pitter? < 1243366210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't do > < 1243366214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do >tmp; mv tmp foo < 1243366226 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I kill the process generating a report when a new report starts. < 1243366241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: "Don't do that" < 1243366245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fix (A) and (C), anyway :P < 1243366247 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1243366262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B) probably isn't too important, but it's irritating having this trivial bug in-channel < 1243366268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ($steps++ < 100000) { and print "Timeout." if $steps >= 100000; are the only two lines that need changing to fix (C) < 1243366268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the timeouts are truly annoying < 1243366271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making (B) more annoying < 1243366280 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fixing A. < 1243366281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (A), the current code appears to run the program each way round and see if the answer was the same < 1243366285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than looking at exit status < 1243366299 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Right, because that's how FYB works :P < 1243366307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1243366311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it can report score quickly < 1243366314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come the report takes so long < 1243366321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because it runs all the programs against each other < 1243366322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because then it runs every other combination < 1243366322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1243366323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ones you didn't just add < 1243366328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that should be cached somehow < 1243366335 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple [>[-]+] < 1243366336 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_simple: -1 (maximum 9) < 1243366366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're in ridiculous wishlist mode, why not post a link to the report in-channel when it's finished generating? < 1243366401 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I looked in to caching it and started rewriting report in Python to get non-argh SQL bindings to cache in an SQLite database. < 1243366405 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I went "ARGH TOO LAZY" < 1243366418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1243366420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache in a database? < 1243366422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why‽‽‽‽‽‽ < 1243366428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just serialize some data structures. < 1243366430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"import pickle" done < 1243366444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why bigdecoy did so badly < 1243366448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't more people use interrobang‽ < 1243366458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're using it inappropriately when you are? < 1243366475 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust shield (>--)*3>((+)*12(>-)*4<<<<)*9999 < 1243366478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout. < 1243366478 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw! < 1243366481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout. < 1243366481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw! < 1243366483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout. < 1243366483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw! < 1243366483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program 2's flag fell. < 1243366483 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Player 1 wins! < 1243366489 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, whoops, forgot to get rid of that output :P < 1243366495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1243366509 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it disappear. < 1243366535 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout. < 1243366535 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw! < 1243366548 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, must kill :P < 1243366550 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program 2's flag fell. < 1243366550 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Player 1 wins! < 1243366560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust bitchesdontknowboutwhichflagismine >+[-->+] < 1243366566 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_bitchesdontknowboutwhichflagismine: -9 (maximum 11) < 1243366571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: how does your shield program work? < 1243366586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: is it fixed? < 1243366589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is -9 my actual score :D < 1243366602 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's fixed, yes. < 1243366613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :report so slow < 1243366663 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure how it works, I've slept since I wrote it < 1243366667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1243366677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I just had a new idea for a defence program < 1243366683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, an old one, but I figured out how to make it work < 1243366730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, your program really did do that badly < 1243366736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1243366744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: run off the tape, I guess < 1243366756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hey GregorR-L. < 1243366756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, good point < 1243366766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 8.26 -9 ehird_bitchesdontknowboutwhichflagismine.bfjoust < 1243366766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 0.00 -3 impomatic_shield.bfjoust < 1243366766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why the hey, now everything's working? < 1243366772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: That's not good ordering, yo. < 1243366780 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not /right/ < 1243366781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, it's not < 1243366782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8 | + + + + + + + + + + + | 100.0 | 11 | impomatic_shortsword.bfjoust < 1243366783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's ordered by "Score" < 1243366791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be something other than wins-losses < 1243366791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his program is so good that it fucks up the tabs < 1243366797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: add another tab after score < 1243366799 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, yeah, it's right. < 1243366819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could avoid tab problems by always making the score 5 characters long < 1243366826 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1243366833 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't understand, this output is exactly the same as FYB, and FYB is always aligned >_< < 1243366853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Because,. < 1243366855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score=100.0 < 1243366858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All others are one char less < 1243366862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like say 97.2 < 1243366868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's how tab characters work. < 1243366872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need another to pad out < 1243366888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just bring all the scores up to 5 chars with padding < 1243366893 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But that one is aligned to where the top is. If that one was the problem, it would be the maligned one. < 1243366895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you could right-align them too at the same time, for free < 1243366902 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, misaligned :P < 1243366906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the misaligned one, GregorR-L. < 1243366913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what ais523 said. < 1243366914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the title is also 5 chars < 1243366922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually, it's correctly aligned, everything else is misaligned < 1243366926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1243366959 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying I don't understand because the code is the same but always comes out perfect for FYB :P < 1243367046 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243367134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, GregorR-L. < 1243367135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/report.txt < 1243367139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't any 100.0s there. < 1243367145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's because no program is good enough. < 1243367163 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But the 100 is the only one that's CORRECTLY aligned in bfjoust, LIKE I SAID < 1243367168 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about keeping an age for each program to keep track of how many successful challenges each one survives? < 1243367179 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we could have a hall of fame ;-) < 1243367194 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a mercurial log :P < 1243367269 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)" < 1243367411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1243367439 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243367455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss < 1243367463 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How come ehird's program scores more than shield? Ehird = 9 losses, 2 ties. Shield = 3 losses, 8 ties. < 1243367471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1243367471 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg < 1243367473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz it's terrible < 1243367473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1243367475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!yodawg a < 1243367478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes abc < 1243367495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1243367511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1243367532 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely a tie should be worth more than a loss? < 1243367535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate collegeboard < 1243367536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I email them saying I don't remember what I put for my security question's answer. They email me asking for personal information. Among the information they're asking for: "Web Account Security Answer:" < 1243367545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I remember you saying that a few minutes ago in Sine too! < 1243367548 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tie is worth more than a loss. < 1243367554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just crosspost everything you say to every IRC channel? < 1243367581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes abc < 1243367588 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about WHAT you tie or lose against. < 1243367599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: !slashes is not working :( < 1243367600 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good idea! < 1243367609 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: http://codu.org/eso/fyb/SCORES (same scoring used for this) < 1243367610 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi < 1243367614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Grr. < 1243367633 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1243367633 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed user interpreters: bct bfbignum chiqrsx9p choo echo google hello ook rot13 slashes yodawg < 1243367647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: previously i had a problem with it only giving the first line, it didn't use DCC < 1243367661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it worked with !show then) < 1243367679 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems echo is equally screwy >_> < 1243367691 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'll have to get to that after I fix this :P < 1243367691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yodawg < 1243367713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: fix the backslashes then too pretty please < 1243367733 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I haven't fixed that because I don't know where the bug is. < 1243367738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1243367766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ook ++++++++[->++++++++<]>. < 1243367766 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ < 1243367772 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh _that_ works < 1243367802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1243367808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!yodawg `.hi < 1243367809 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1243367812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1243367817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show echo < 1243367818 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf ,[.,] < 1243367825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo hi there! < 1243367833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1243367846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what's !yodawg? < 1243367853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda in unlambda < 1243367858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1243367893 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp echo_sh sh cat < 1243367893 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter echo_sh installed. < 1243367901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo_sh Hi there! < 1243367902 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi there! < 1243367914 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1243367964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1243368040 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, undocumented instruction in BF Joust :-) < 1243368081 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1 [>[-]+] < 1243368082 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for GregorR-L_attack1: -3 (maximum 10) < 1243368107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: wut? < 1243368114 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, not undocmented I just didn't read the Wiki properly. < 1243368123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one did you mean? < 1243368168 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1243368197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1243368206 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumbed it was a * on the Wiki for some reason < 1243368236 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09/05/26 19:32:07 !bf joust simple [>[-]+] < 1243368252 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09/05/26 20:01:23 !bf joust attack1 [>[-]+] < 1243368255 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... :-P < 1243368270 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat attack1.bfjoust < 1243368273 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>[-]+] < 1243368315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: "!bf joust"? < 1243368319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with your logs? < 1243368340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1a [>[+]-] < 1243368342 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_attack1a: 2 (maximum 11) < 1243368350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf joust :p < 1243368352 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added the space in case egobot responded to what I pasted < 1243368359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: only at the start of a line < 1243368369 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah okay < 1243368392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf joust ,[.,]!Hello, world! < 1243368396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf joust,[.,]!Hello, world! < 1243368404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... input with ! no longer workd < 1243368405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*works < 1243368538 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it, kill EgoBot day? < 1243368574 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust flux (>)*8(>[-]+)*21 < 1243368575 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_flux: 4 (maximum 12) < 1243368619 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it now caches. < 1243368623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1243368624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust flux_a_counteracting_monomorphism_cocktails (>)*8(>[+]-)*21 < 1243368627 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_flux_a_counteracting_monomorphism_cocktails: 6 (maximum 13) < 1243368633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1243368777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you shorten nests, again? < 1243368811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a{b}c)%3 == aaabccc < 1243368821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if a and c contain the matching halves of square brackets < 1243368858 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust kicks_ehird >---->++++>-->++(>)*4(>++[-]+)*21 < 1243368859 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_kicks_ehird: 5 (maximum 9) < 1243368865 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, this is much faster with caching :P < 1243368870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if I want n=0->a, n=1->[ab],n=2->[[ab]b], etc? < 1243368874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to manually do that? < 1243368894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: can you remove score? pts seems so much more useful < 1243368902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1243368918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh? < 1243368923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ([{a}b])%5 < 1243368925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1243368928 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... score is much better. Writing something that beats all the most useless programs but fails against any good ones shouldn't do well :P < 1243368941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: then make the in-channel thing report score < 1243368943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of points < 1243368976 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose now that report is caching, that's not wildly insane *sigh* < 1243368997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust modernist_decorum ([{[]}+])%30 < 1243369004 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_modernist_decorum: -9 (maximum 10) < 1243369016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf? < 1243369021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should constantly defend its flag. < 1243369069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ([{[]}+])%blah is like [[[[[[]+]+]+]+]+], correct? < 1243369074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust modernist_decorum [[[[[[[[[]+]+]+]+]+]+]+]+] < 1243369081 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_modernist_decorum: -9 (maximum 10) < 1243369081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1243369146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so why does it fail? < 1243369220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust elena_lady_of_the_french_moving_picture_association (>+)*8[[-].>] < 1243369229 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ehird_elena_lady_of_the_french_moving_picture_association: -8 (maximum 10) < 1243369241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably spend more time coming up with the programs than their name < 1243369242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1243369411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey GregorR-L, what would I need to get a local version of the !bfjoust command? < 1243369422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working the same way, updating a local scoreboard, etc < 1243369426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to genetically evolve some proggies < 1243369437 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!info < 1243369437 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/ < 1243369449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: That's... not helpful. At all. < 1243369458 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read scmds/bfjoust :P < 1243369479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I don't want a version that commits to an hg repository and is hooked up to IRC, is the point. < 1243369516 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The report program in interps/bfjoust does exactly what you need, without any hgism or whatnot. < 1243369521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: all the programs needed are there < 1243369525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1243369526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's glue to link them to IRC < 1243369527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice, then. < 1243369528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just not use it < 1243369692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% perl5.10.0 bfjoust < 1243369692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both programs finished. < 1243369693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw! < 1243369695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1243369721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #!/usr/bin/perl < 1243369724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please fix that to #!/usr/bin/env perl < 1243369728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my perl5.10 didn't run on it < 1243369732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's in /opt/perl/bin < 1243369739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone has control over their vendor :) < 1243369755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could just run it with perl as a separate program < 1243369756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you did above < 1243369759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I could < 1243369761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still a bug. < 1243369763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all computers have env < 1243369769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ehm < 1243369771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they do < 1243369784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have Perl and not env on my Windows computer at home running under DJGPP; it ignores the path in #! lines but parses the program) < 1243369785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all UNIX-alikes and POSIX-alikes do, and Windows doesn't have /usr/bin < 1243369797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then what's in the #! line doesn't matter to it < 1243369801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1243369805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it'd try to run env, not perl < 1243369818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then DJGPP is buggy < 1243369822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1243369825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29 ais523: ehird: you could just run it with perl as a separate program < 1243369852 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, perl is particularly problematic since there's a flag you're always "supposed" to add, but #!/usr/bin/env perl can't add flags. < 1243369865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: no, you're not meant to use perl -w < 1243369868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to "use warnings;" < 1243369880 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh :P < 1243369883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust < 1243369883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust.pl < 1243369887 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I've been taught wrong oh noes < 1243369888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GregorR-L: errrrrrr. < 1243369893 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at ais523 :P < 1243369895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dare I ask why? < 1243369905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "use warnings;" is scoped < 1243369916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1243369918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 ehird: -rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust < 1243369919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 ehird: -rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust.pl < 1243369920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why < 1243369929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ./report < 1243369930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: report < 1243369930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you can turn warnings on and off, obviously < 1243369933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: That's a remarkably unhelpful help < 1243369939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ARGH!! ARE YOU BLIND?!?!?! < 1243369941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 ehird: 20:31 ehird: -rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust < 1243369941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31 ehird: 20:31 ehird: -rwxr-xr-x 1 ehird staff 3500 26 May 20:27 bfjoust.pl < 1243369970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I noticed that, but aren't replying to it < 1243369975 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cd programs; ../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust < 1243369978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* amn't < 1243369979 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cache dir must exist) < 1243369980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was what my question was about < 1243369985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you answer a question I didn't ask? < 1243370013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Umm... and how do I get a certain program's score out of this? < 1243370026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Additionally, how can I get the latest scoreboard of programs? < 1243370057 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold your horses. I'm saving scores to files now, the scoreboard is spit out stdout. < 1243370091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: x_x < 1243370132 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously the scores were only in the stdout report, so don't complain :P < 1243370149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: So what do I need to do? < 1243370160 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait ten minutes. < 1243370172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wendyful < 1243370505 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, re-pull. < 1243370508 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scores are saved in the cache. < 1243370512 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.score < 1243370527 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best you'll get due to my crippling apathy :P < 1243370577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: So, cd programs; echo bitch>goddamn.bfjoust; ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust; cat ../cache/goddamn.score? < 1243370607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, GregorR-L, some questions: Does this trim the hill to 10 items? How do I get the current scoreboard programs in here? < 1243370709 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This does trim the hill, yes. That command is ../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust, and the scoreboard is the output of report. < 1243370743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: No. I mean: how do I get the current egobot programs in there? < 1243370748 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1243370756 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ < 1243370760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: have you got all your favorite warriors in EgoBot? < 1243370766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Ew. Fine. < 1243370774 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the two < 1243370781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: OK < 1243370794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Will removing the hill-trimming code make, say, the program think a warrior is great while EgoBot gives it a low score? < 1243370799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. will it bias my results < 1243370819 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could, but not by a lot, it gives more weight to beating programs that do well themselves. < 1243370840 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I limit the hill to now? 10 is no longer necessary, and seems to small. 50 mebbe? < 1243370840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I'm just wondering whether to evolve with or without the limited hill < 1243370875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't need to generate the ()/%/* stuff, right? I can just preprocess them in before sending the program to bfjoust < 1243370892 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I would say fight against a static hill ... < 1243370900 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That is, always delete your own. < 1243370905 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(After a generation) < 1243370908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: err, but then I'll only beat the best one currently on the hill < 1243370919 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, you want to evolve against yourself, right. < 1243370919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I add mine to the hill, I come up with a strategy that beats the current crop, then beat that, etc < 1243370926 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, definitely keep them all. < 1243370928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1243370938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: does that require intensive surgery? < 1243370940 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beating programs that don't do well doesn't earn you much score-wise. < 1243370948 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, just remove about five lines. < 1243370956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1243370960 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 300 of report.c < 1243370975 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be painfully obvious what to remove. < 1243370987 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I know, that's gross, but report.c is a hack :P < 1243370992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You said "without any hg stuff". < 1243370995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : system("hg commit -m -"); < 1243371002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that, then, is not "hg stuff"... < 1243371007 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only time report.c uses hg. I forgot about that because it shouldn't :) < 1243371011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1243371026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: which hg repo has the programs? < 1243371031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to download 'em manually. < 1243371031 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An internal one. < 1243371034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1243371047 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget -r -l inf -np http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ < 1243371057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going to suggest wget, too < 1243371070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L seems to have more wget-fu than me, but mine is good enough for something like that < 1243371071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that ends up spidering the whole web < 1243371076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: -np < 1243371085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it certainly downloads non-.bfjoust files < 1243371085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an option not to spider above where you start < 1243371094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, presumably it's the directory index in 20 different formats < 1243371097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1243371101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which kind of defeats the damn point... < 1243371113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1243371113 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Good freaking lord, stop complaining and mv *.bfjoust < 1243371140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i'm irritated < 1243371148 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NORLY < 1243371205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: report is idempotent, right? < 1243371214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, running it without changing its args or the files will have no effect < 1243371220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% mkdir ../cache;../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust < 1243371221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ID Score Pts Program < 1243371222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0.00 0 ais523_attack5.bfjoust < 1243371224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 0.00 0 impomatic_shortsword.bfjoust < 1243371226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 0.00 0 impomatic_kicks_ehird.bfjoust < 1243371228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: cool story bro < 1243371254 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as you removed that deletion, yes. < 1243371269 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ../bfjoust run? < 1243371269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: so everything's just lame huh < 1243371272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1243371277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because ais523 broke it. < 1243371295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and "perl ../bfjoust" doesn't work with gregor's report program < 1243371298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it requires a filename < 1243371308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what did you say about "you can run it manually with 'perl bfjoust'?" < 1243371310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic, ic. < 1243371314 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, whoopsiloo :) < 1243371324 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just change the #! line *shrugs* < 1243371363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % ../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust < 1243371363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ID Score Pts Program < 1243371365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0.00 0 ais523_attack5.bfjoust < 1243371367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 0.00 0 impomatic_shortsword.bfjoust < 1243371369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: (yes, I fixed it) < 1243371376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1243371379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :../cache was broken. < 1243371380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1243371443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: d'you think removing the programs whose pts are below 0 is a wise decision? < 1243371449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'll fuss over them < 1243371469 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't fuss much over them :P < 1243371475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1243371498 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that it may be a program that defeats one really "important" program, but doesn't do well otherwise. < 1243371503 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you'd want to keep that alive. < 1243371509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1243371551 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is why the whole "score" vs "points" system exists :P ) < 1243371583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: ../cache never changes anything, right? < 1243371588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, rm -rf ../cache only makes it slower < 1243371590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anything else < 1243371601 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you /update/ a program, you have to remove its relevant cache entries. < 1243371620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahahahahahahaha GregorR-L and which are these < 1243371627 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:filename.bfjoust* < 1243371647 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr, *:filename.bfjoust:* < 1243371684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: What about .score? < 1243371693 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's never read, only written. < 1243371698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1243371700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./bfjoust.pl attack1.bj defend6.bj | wc -l < 1243371701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20704 < 1243371703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 2 lines of output per step < 1243371710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means that 10000 is not enough < 1243371716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 20000 probably is, that was quite a long tape < 1243371719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please, can you use .bfjoust instead of .bj? the connotations! < 1243371725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do elsewhere < 1243371735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the connotations are only in your mind < 1243371743 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your penis. < 1243371747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, the connotations of everything is only in your mind < 1243371753 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your penis. < 1243371870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, defend6 beats shortsword too < 1243371876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just /slightly/ too long for an IRC lien < 1243371878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*line < 1243371880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will paste it < 1243371881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cat it? < 1243371882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1243371891 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Y'know you can use a URL? < 1243371898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1243371898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: I do < 1243371901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I'm pasting it < 1243371904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1243371908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: !bfjoust butt http://foo < 1243371909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1243371913 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH, pasteBIN < 1243371924 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-ing it) < 1243371959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust defend6 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1435349 < 1243371974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's a fucked up codeulation, ais523. < 1243371977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Care to expand it for us mortals? < 1243371981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1243371981 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for ais523_defend6: 97.0 < 1243371984 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1243371988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just look at it! < 1243371996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it consists of lots of not-quite-repeats < 1243372004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I expanded it, it would be massively long < 1243372009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there are no loops but the [] at the start < 1243372012 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, it ties against defend1 :P < 1243372025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: not surprising, they're both defence programs < 1243372031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wait for the opponent to arrive < 1243372054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*defense < 1243372054 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, looks like you're on top now. < 1243372063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should add in a defence-program-detector < 1243372065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: So's your mom < 1243372074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that switches to a counter-defence strategy if it notices one < 1243372083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ID Score Pts Program < 1243372084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 95.87 10 ais523_defend6.bfjoust < 1243372085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a detector is easy, just wait for a few thousand turns and see if anything happens) < 1243372088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Why is it differen? < 1243372098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1243372100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the same programs. < 1243372104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1243372106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: you'll have to come up with something that can beat that, now I've knocked shortsword off the leaderboard < 1243372106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have 11 of them. < 1243372108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1243372110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: tape length randomisation, too < 1243372118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, it's nondeterministic? < 1243372120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate < 1243372122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might make a difference, although probably not < 1243372136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the randomisation's just to prevent people using degenerate strategies, and rarely changes the result < 1243372173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably an optimum strategy for a constant tape length N < 1243372196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, just running straight to your opponent's flag < 1243372204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course. < 1243372261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-05/evolve_bfjoust/working/evolvist] % ruby evolvist.rb < 1243372261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60.3 < 1243372263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-05/evolve_bfjoust/working/evolvist] % ruby evolvist.rb < 1243372265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70.2 < 1243372269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: ais523: that's a pretty large variation... < 1243372274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(testing impomatic_shortsword) < 1243372288 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Testing" in what way? < 1243372290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should do it, say, 5 times, and take the average < 1243372295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: < 1243372296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def remove_cache(name) < 1243372297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `rm ../cache/*:#{name}.bfjoust:*` < 1243372299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1243372301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def test_program(name) < 1243372303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : remove_cache(name) < 1243372304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if it's an evolutionary algorithm, a bit of randomness is fine anyway < 1243372305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust` < 1243372307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File.read("../cache/#{name}.bfjoust.score") < 1243372309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1243372321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i suppose < 1243372323 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any change there can only be from tape lengths ... < 1243372324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not goign to get anywhere with this < 1243372330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes multiple seconds just to run once < 1243372345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-05/evolve_bfjoust/working/evolvist] % time ruby evolvist.rb < 1243372345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70.2 < 1243372346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby evolvist.rb 2.16s user 0.13s system 97% cpu 2.342 total < 1243372348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-05/evolve_bfjoust/working/evolvist] % time ruby evolvist.rb < 1243372349 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quay? With the cache in place it shouldn't? < 1243372350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60.3 < 1243372352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby evolvist.rb 1.78s user 0.13s system 98% cpu 1.936 total < 1243372361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: it removes the cache for the program we're testing < 1243372362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1243372365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's to be used when you change it < 1243372374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I suppose I won't ever reuse a prorgam < 1243372376 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's because your programs almost always time out, right? :P < 1243372376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1243372396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: anyway, you need <0.1s for evolving to be practiacl < 1243372399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*practical < 1243372401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it'll take years < 1243372409 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1243372432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: in short, make it faster :P < 1243372437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just some programs are naturally very slow < 1243372439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of cycles < 1243372443 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any slowness at this point is due to timeouts. < 1243372450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defend6 wins really quite slowly, most of the time < 1243372450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just get AnMaster to rewrite it < 1243372455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juts turn on debug and look at the log < 1243372459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be really fast :p < 1243372462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could speed it up by not reparsing the program every step < 1243372465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in numerous other ways < 1243372490 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or not writing it in Perl) < 1243372492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite the bfjoust interpreter? < 1243372500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1243372507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. I'm not really interested in corewars or similar things < 1243372518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee I sure was not joking < 1243372519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely not < 1243372529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AnMaster" in string implies seriousville, true logic equation facst. < 1243372532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facts, too. < 1243372535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back listening to radio < 1243372547 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to no soap. Radio! < 1243372582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR-L: Hahahahaha < 1243372657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: as for that BF Joust program, I have a version with whitespace too which shows what it's doing < 1243373121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that'd be nice < 1243373165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://pastebin.ca/1435376 < 1243373305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1243373349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it attacks something in particular, which is the [-] or [+] loop < 1243373353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly all programs have one < 1243373377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they go into such a loop on its flag, then defend6 will keep them in it forever, whilst running off and sinking their flag < 1243373536 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tweaked [>+[---]+] < 1243373545 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_tweaked: 37.5 < 1243373559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: last place < 1243373569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does beat defend6 < 1243373589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not last < 1243373597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixth < 1243373608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beating a program that beats all the others is quite good for its score... < 1243373646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kicks_ehird is amusing, it beats all the programs that don't start ais523_, and loses to all the ones that do < 1243373672 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Game of Werewolves (called Mafia) at irc.xkcd.com #mafia < 1243373689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why did you just advertise that in #esoteric and ##nomic? < 1243373691 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1243373715 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought peoople there might be interested. Agora had a Werewolves thing < 1243373751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: interesting strategy in stranger, by the way < 1243373760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be thinking about counter-defence strategies < 1243373826 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... I've also slept since I wrote that one ;-) < 1243373838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell how it works, though < 1243373847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detects defence strategies by looking to see if the flag has changed < 1243373865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying up-runs and down-runs to see if either beats the defence strategy, before moving on < 1243373939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1243374153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't know very English but I know very much Spanish and I suppose you don't know very Spanish but you know very English because you are American but I am not American." < 1243374157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—Fidel Castro < 1243374172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or should I say "Fidel Zzo38stro"? :D) < 1243374210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, is that a genuine quote? < 1243374214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so very zzo38 < 1243374221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the grammar isn't quite as good < 1243374235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is genuine < 1243374236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://everything2.com/title/Young%2520Fidel%2520Castro%2527s%2520letter%2520to%2520President%2520Roosevelt < 1243374243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beforehand he asks Roosevelt for a 10 dollar bill < 1243374254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he wants to see one, apparently < 1243374264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was, admittedly, 12 years old < 1243374320 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.underfoule.net/mika/src/12433705409.jpg < 1243374342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I see no /prog/snake; downvoted. < 1243374371 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does the snake come from, anyway? < 1243374374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoyX0YuanBnfGxvYWQ9TDAsaHR0cDovL2ltYWdlczkuY2FmZXByZXNzLmNvbS9pbWFnZS8zNDEyMjU4OV80MDB4NDAwLmpwZ3x8c2NhbGU9TDAsMTcwLDE0NSxXaGl0ZXxjb21wb3NlPWJsYW5rLEwwLEFkZCwxNTUsMTI1fGNwPXJlc3VsdCxibGFua3xzY2FsZT1yZXN1bHQsMCw0ODAsV2hpdGV8Y29tcHJlc3Npb249OTV8 < 1243374375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1243374377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: /prog/ < 1243374389 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but why? < 1243374396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Because SICP. < 1243374399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"force e = e" —/prog < 1243374400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1243374522 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1243374541 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a snake in SICP? < 1243374555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1243374584 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@rrcs-74-62-7-76.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1243374605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyyyyy < 1243374609 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why that snake < 1243374613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satori < 1243374616 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is handsome and all, but < 1243374728 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-112-123.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243374732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carts, cartographers, < 1243374732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! < 1243374816 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1243374890 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dumb (>)*9([(-)*128.[-]]>)*20 < 1243374892 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Score for impomatic_dumb: 50.0 < 1243374911 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/progsnake < 1243374917 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not helpful < 1243375050 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1861/screenshotlm2.png < 1243375051 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahah < 1243375106 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you know, or do I have to ask /soc/? < 1243375171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It is just random. < 1243375187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, your questioning is unscientific and ultimately destructive. < 1243375288 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of memes actually have some sort of origin < 1243375291 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know: < 1243375783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I'm waiting for the conclusion to your colon. < 1243375848 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1243375908 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-112-123.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1243375939 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The conclusion of my colon is my asshole < 1243375969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hur hur < 1243376134 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1243376160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Q: How do you vote in elections? < 1243376160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A: I usually vote for the fattest candidate, on the basis that they'll take up more room on the House of Commons benches, thereby giving me more democracy for my valuable franchise.]] < 1243376289 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always vote for the tallest guy < 1243376408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for the guy most likely to gum the works. < 1243376426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this day and age, that means someone with reasonable opinions. < 1243376614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Apple M9178 23-Inch Cinema HD Display is a liquid crystal display (LCD) monitor and has a default resolution of 1920x1200 dpi (dots per inch)." < 1243376619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fucking shit! < 1243376632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know we talked about that IBM display with hugh dpi? < 1243376633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*huge < 1243376636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS THE REAL DEAL :P < 1243376646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a bajillion times more dense than paper! < 1243376677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's probably a bug < 1243376681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the description < 1243376682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no shit < 1243376692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bug in the wetware of the human who authored it, rather. < 1243376695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still funny < 1243376769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920x1200 dpi? < 1243376771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. < 1243376774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally. < 1243376780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Think how many VMs you could run. < 1243376788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one in each square inch < 1243376791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at a decent resolution < 1243376796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A really decent resolution. < 1243376803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much the max anyone runs. < 1243376813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, some people game at 2048x1536 < 1243376814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1243376819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or was it 2560x1600?) < 1243376831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's watching every single HD station at once. < 1243376838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The screen is 44160x27600 < 1243376844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the total DPI is 3063 < 1243376845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a small handful of bluray discs. < 1243376847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.27) < 1243376852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 0.0083mm dot pitch < 1243376865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind = blown. < 1243376868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Haha. That's 8.3 microns separating each pixel. < 1243376945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that there was an 8 micron silicon process out there. < 1243376946 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1243376971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the micron is larger than the nanometer. < 1243376989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still pretty impressive. < 1243377002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's the first time I clicked on a link to Goatse < 1243377009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For comparison, a red blood cell is 7 microns. < 1243377012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I recognised it as Goatse before it finished loading, and managed to not look at it < 1243377015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1243377031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 10 microns was the state of the art process in 1971-1972 < 1243377037 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1243377037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 microns was reached in 1975. < 1243377040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's microchips. < 1243377045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I recognised it wasn't what it claimed to be < 1243377052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and guessed it was a shock image < 1243377055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would be the first monitor that requires you to spend inordinate amounts of money just to detect the pixel separation, pikhq :D < 1243377064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the proper terminology is the 'micrometer'. As in µm. < 1243377074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: microns is also acceptable < 1243377083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A micrometre or micron (American spelling: micrometer; symbol µm) is one millionth of a metre, or equivalently one thousandth of a millimetre. It can be written in scientific notation as 1×10−6 m, meaning 1/1 000 000 m. < 1243377095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but µm is something I can type that most can't. :p < 1243377112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compose m u FTW. < 1243377130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wipes the goatse from browser cache < 1243377161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't wait for picometer CPU processes < 1243377191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µm is easy < 1243377195 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1243377196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't even copy-paste from you < 1243377206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: this is not a nomic channel, before you say anything < 1243377214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but not for Windows users. < 1243377222 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you consent to ais523 joining bayes < 1243377224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is picometer even possible? I mean, 11nm is nanotechnology. < 1243377225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt+0something or other. < 1243377228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I do not consent. < 1243377229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I'm not trying to < 1243377235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Barely. < 1243377239 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I asked you if you wanted to and you didn't respond < 1243377242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I suspect you need my consent too < 1243377245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he wants to stop it being deregistered by announcement < 1243377251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guessed < 1243377253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, still wrong channel < 1243377254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A picometer process would have the circuit as a very complex molecule. < 1243377263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: [[I deregister Bayes.]] < 1243377265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: blame him < 1243377273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm not sure that would work too well < 1243377282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Actually. < 1243377290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check to see how big a silicon atom is. < 1243377292 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you suck < 1243377294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helium atom = 31 picometers < 1243377309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :117.6 picometers for Si. < 1243377315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh. Silicon's a fatso. < 1243377343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So 0.1176nm. < 1243377345 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1243377346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Arguably, we're already dealing with complex molecules. < 1243377354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah. < 1243377359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're currently at 45/32nm < 1243377364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32nm can do RAM and shit, so let's say that < 1243377365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really. We're discussing traces that are about 100 atoms across. < 1243377389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 or 4 hundred across for common processes) < 1243377391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 32nm = 272 * a silicon atom < 1243377398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32000 picometers < 1243377398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1243377420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 11nm - nanoelectronics - will be 93 < 1243377427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really, we're near that stage < 1243377446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, Intel was working on 20nm stuff. < 1243377460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22nm you mean < 1243377470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I omit figures. < 1243377471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bite me. < 1243377476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On August 18, 2008, AMD, Freescale, IBM, STMicroelectronics, Toshiba and the College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering (CNSE) announced that they jointly developed and manufactured a 22 nm SRAM cell, built on a traditional six-transistor design on a 300 mm wafer, which had a memory cell size of just 0.1 square μm.[5] The cell was printed using immersion lithography.[6] < 1243377490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's a bit too prototype for my tastes < 1243377516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that's 187 * Si < 1243377546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Intel wanting to have their next generation on a 22nm process. Anyways. < 1243377560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the next tock will be a 32nm shrink of Nehalem < 1243377567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Intel are converting a fab to it < 1243377572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's basically where we're at now < 1243377604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 000 < 1243377605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1243377607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some predictions for the 22 nm node come from the ITRS. For example, it is predicted that silicon devices will no longer be planar, but will require ultrathin sections mostly surrounded on the sides by gates. The silicon body in each section is fully depleted, i.e., the free charge carrier concentration is deliberately suppressed. The sections basically protrude as fins from the surface (sometimes these are known as FinFETs). The creation of fins is a ne < 1243377611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w challenge for the semiconductor industry, which has become accustomed to building transistors on a flat silicon surface. As of late 2008, several technical risks remain for implementation of non-planar 22nm transistors for logic applications.[2] < 1243377615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to the ITRS, the 22 nm node also marks the first time where the pre-metal dielectric, separating the transistor from the first metal layer, is a porous low-k material, replacing traditional, denser CVD silicon dioxide. The introduction of a porous material closer to the front end presents numerous integration challenges. In particular, the extent of plasma damage to low-k materials is typically 20 nm thick,[3] but can also go up to approximatel < 1243377620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y 100 nm.[4] < 1243377622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tl;dr: "22nm requires some thinking before we can use it" < 1243377628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas 32nm has no real issues vs 45nm < 1243377629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1243377629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1243377638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want to put the transistors vertically, sticking out from the chip < 1243377640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, very damned impressive. < 1243377640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16nm is megahard: < 1243377641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 nm resolution is difficult to achieve in a polymeric resist, even with electron beam lithography. In addition, the chemical effects of ionizing radiation also limit reliable resolution to about 50 nm, which is also achievable using current state-of-the-art immersion lithography. Hardmask materials and possibly iterated double patterning will be required. < 1243377643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to help cooling and density, or something < 1243377645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more significant limitation comes from plasma damage to low-k materials. The extent of damage is typically 20 nm thick,[3] but can also go up to approximately 100 nm.[4] The damage sensitivity is expected to get worse as the low-k materials become more porous. < 1243377649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 11nm, well, that's nanotechnology < 1243377652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum tunneling and shit < 1243377683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is, we're getting to that pretty quick. < 1243377826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty damned spiffy. < 1243377860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1243377869 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Intel is planning to start shipping 22 nm in 2011. < 1243377879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No guarantees of it actually happening, of course. < 1243379050 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1243379097 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1243379164 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1243379181 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1243379622 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1243380349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1243380548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, way up the logs, s/Örjan/Ørjan/ < 1243381605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: intel say they'll get 11nm by 2015 < 1243381609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bs < 1243381624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Which is unlikely. < 1243381629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BS. < 1243381664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing remotely close to the advanceness of what Intel wants to do at 11nm even exists in a "this could work" sketch for a prototype, as far as I know < 1243381694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Intel is sitting on stuff. Which would be stunning to say the least. < 1243381716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that incredibly unlikely. < 1243381733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they have 11nm stuff right now, they could make bajillions and woo everyone by demonstrating it < 1243381738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's literally sci-fi. < 1243382198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1243382374 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric