00:00:13 ehird: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Perceptively+Chilly+Sonata 00:00:20 Happened to get percussion in there :P 00:00:29 As well as much weirdness :P 00:00:30 GregorR: But like, properly made percussion. 00:00:35 Yeah yeah yeah 00:02:33 fizzie: i'll put a link to http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt in EsoInterpreters for befunge -> bf/underload 00:02:34 oerjan: yeah i am a hillary clinton looks more like her old hair color better her album let go is so scary. send this over to 5 videos and then i jizzed. in other way like bullet time and you can slide. 00:03:51 O_O 00:03:53 X_X 00:03:56 GarageBand forgot my input. 00:04:13 Ah, there. 00:04:37 anyone know any other esointerpreters than fungot and mine recently? 00:04:37 oerjan: yeah you sure have a ' slang term', everything you wrote in your brain, the computer has the people who do you mean, well, except this is the lyrics? stfu yourself slam-mules-ass. 00:04:54 (esointerpreter = esolang in esolang) 00:07:00 ^style 00:07:01 Available: agora alice c64 darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* 00:07:04 GregorR: Make it work ok 00:08:15 "Make it work ok" 00:08:34 GregorR: JUST MAKE MY BASTARD KEYSTUDIO 49I/MT-32 COMBINATION WORK ;_; 00:12:36 GregorR: Oh lol 00:12:42 GregorR: It isn't actually playing thru the mt-32. 00:14:09 GregorR: "1) MIDI coming from the computer via USB is sent to the external MIDI Out port" 00:14:14 Right, that is obviously what I wa— wait. 00:14:19 It must be the mt-32, bec— 00:14:22 OH. Ohhhhhhhhhh. 00:14:43 Wait. 00:14:44 Wait, no. 00:19:59 Um. 00:20:58 GregorR: ............ahahahaha 00:21:07 ? 00:21:09 GregorR: The MIDI cable isn't connected to the MT-32; I disconnected it while testing stuff. 00:21:11 XDDDDDDDDDDD 00:21:40 Of course, that hasn't fixed the problem or anything. /sigh 00:23:22 Grah. 00:36:53 GregorR: YOU DID THIS TO ME 00:37:17 ^^ 00:37:28 GregorR: hate 00:38:18 GregorR: I'm <--> close to throwing this out of the window. 00:49:33 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away. 00:50:58 http://filebin.ca/xdvbfy/TestilyIllustriousFugue.mid // ooohh, good! 00:52:53 GregorR: Getting there w/ mt-32 00:54:41 GregorR: that one is ok 00:55:06 It's dull, but that's to be expected. 00:55:10 It's mellow. 00:58:22 but is it yellow? 01:04:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:05:10 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 01:08:32 -!- MizardX- has joined. 01:08:32 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun. 01:09:23 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:09:28 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 01:10:13 GregorR: what's the bpm of gen-1? 01:11:39 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:11:43 GregorR: 'tis important! 01:11:58 GregorR: i gots it working you see 01:12:48 -!- puzzlet has joined. 01:14:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:14:44 GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: 01:20:30 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:20:31 !underload (GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:20:31 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:20:43 EgoBot: spoilsport 01:20:58 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S )S:^):^ 01:20:59 !underload (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S ( ...too much output! 01:20:59 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:05 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S )S:^):^ 01:21:05 !underload (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (Greg ...too much output! 01:21:06 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:08 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S )S:^):^ 01:21:08 !underload (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S (GregorR: )S ...too much output! 01:21:09 GregorR: Attempt to execute unknown command 32 01:21:17 oh 01:21:22 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S()!)S:^):^ 01:21:22 !underload (GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S()!(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:21:22 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:28 bollocks 01:21:30 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S())S:^):^ 01:21:30 !underload (GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(GregorR: )S()(Greg ...too much output! 01:21:31 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:34 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:34 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: ...too much output! 01:21:35 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:36 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:37 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(Gregor ...too much output! 01:21:37 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:38 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:39 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(Gregor ...too much output! 01:21:39 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:41 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:41 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: ...too much output! 01:21:42 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:43 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:43 :D 01:21:44 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:21:44 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:46 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:46 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:21:47 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:48 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:49 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(Greg ...too much output! 01:21:49 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:51 WORK YOU FUCK BUTTS 01:21:53 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:53 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:21:53 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:21:55 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S( )!)S:^):^ 01:21:57 !underload (GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!(GregorR: )S( )!( ...too much output! 01:21:57 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:22:00 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH 01:22:07 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:22:07 !underload (GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S( ...too much output! 01:22:07 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:22:09 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:22:09 !underload (GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(Greg ...too much output! 01:22:10 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:22:11 ^ul (!underload )S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:22:11 !underload (GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: ...too much output! 01:22:11 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:22:16 ehird: STOP 01:22:19 and THINK 01:22:22 oerjan: NO 01:23:15 Gee. 01:23:20 It's probably 120. 01:23:28 hm thutubot was nicer, it cut off only at a complete S i think 01:23:55 GregorR: Nope, that's too sloooow. 01:24:03 I know because I tried. 01:24:10 GregorR: Could you just look at the file kplz? :P 01:24:12 It's sorta late. 01:24:29 What file? 01:24:40 On, gen-1 :P 01:25:25 GregorR: Right. Although the MT-32's Taiko sound isn't very crunchy :P 01:26:13 It's unspecified in the file. 01:26:16 120 is default for MIDI. 01:26:45 !underload ((0123456789)S:^):^ 01:26:49 GregorR: Maybe GarageBand lost data in the import of the midi. 01:26:57 um... 01:27:03 Ohh. 01:27:05 ^ul ((0123456789)S:^):^ 01:27:05 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 ...too much output! 01:27:08 GregorR: I had tempo set to 40bpm XD 01:27:27 n 01:27:27 GregorR: WOW, set gen-1 to grand piano 01:27:36 GregorR: It sounds amazing 01:27:43 243... 01:27:47 GregorR: What key's it in? Or does midi not have that 01:27:48 oh right 01:27:55 ehird: MIDI has that, it's in C minor. 01:27:58 um 244 01:28:10 gah 01:28:19 4*80+4 = 324 01:28:34 GregorR: Set it to C major before playing it as piano :P 01:28:48 ............... 01:28:56 Why would one do that? 01:29:27 GregorR: because I had it as that, and it sounds great like that 01:29:38 (!underload ) takes 11, leaving 313 which looks suspiciously prime 01:29:59 Your MIDI thing will transpose minor into major? >_O 01:30:08 OH, no, it's just not annotated as minor in the MIDI file :P 01:30:10 GregorR: No. I mean in GarageBand 01:30:15 Because autocomposer doesn't write that out :P 01:30:20 GregorR: But it is C minor, right? 01:30:23 Yes. 01:30:37 (also donald's car plate, fwiw) 01:30:46 GregorR: Okay. Now, will you fix the fact that it suddenly ISN'T WORKING? 01:31:42 (Gregor: )S is also 11 long 01:33:19 ^ul (!underload ( )!)S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:33:20 !underload ( )!(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(Gregor ...too much output! 01:33:20 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:33:34 dammit 01:33:57 oh 01:34:11 ^ul (!underload ()!)S(((GregorR: )S)S:^):^ 01:34:12 !underload ()!(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: ...too much output! 01:34:12 Error: Expected ) at end of input 01:34:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:35:08 Hi pikhq. 01:35:40 Yo. 01:36:48 the darn bot isn't consistent about where it cuts off :( 01:37:01 BOO LAMBDAMOO 01:37:05 "Not every player is allowed to program in MOO, including (at the moment, 01:37:05 anyway) you. " 01:38:30 hm... 01:38:44 oh wait 01:39:04 it won't matter because of the illegal instruction :( 01:39:54 or does it 01:40:02 !underload (abc)S. 01:40:03 abcAttempt to execute unknown command 46 01:40:08 ok... 01:40:21 GregorR: I'll try tomorrow 01:40:57 GregorR: btw i blame you for the cash it'll cost me to get a wearable computer 01:41:06 ^ul (!underload ((GregorR: )S))S((:S)S:^):^ 01:41:06 !underload ((GregorR: )S):S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S: ...too much output! 01:41:07 (GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: )S(GregorR: ) 01:41:13 damn 01:41:19 close. 01:41:57 ^ul (!underload (GregorR: ))S 01:41:58 !underload (GregorR: ) 01:42:01 ^ul (!underload (GregorR: )))S((:S)S:^):^ 01:42:01 ...bad insn! 01:42:05 ^ul (!underload (GregorR: ))S((S)S:^):^ 01:42:05 !underload (GregorR: )SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ...too much output! 01:42:05 GregorR: Error: Stack underflow in S 01:42:09 ^ul (!underload (GregorR: ))S((:S)S:^):^ 01:42:10 !underload (GregorR: ):S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S ...too much output! 01:42:11 GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: GregorR: Grego 01:42:18 oerjan: You may call me "awesome". 01:42:29 * oerjan calls ehird awesome 01:42:33 ^_^ 01:43:57 * oerjan sees it's wikipedia time 01:44:04 Hey, I just realized that I do have computers capable of playing MIDI files. 01:44:16 So I just need to find GregorR's link to his thing that sucks. 01:45:51 GregorR: http://wearcomp.wikia.com/wiki/Myvu_Crystal_%2B_Pandora 01:45:54 why would that cost $700? 01:46:27 GregorR: also, in the myvu crystal, what is the actual scren? 01:46:29 *screen 01:50:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:56:46 GregorR: also, how are the kb and mouse mounted in your rig? 02:01:32 So, I'm playing GregorR's generated melody thing. 02:02:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:02:50 warrie: play some of the others we uploaded 02:02:54 there are multiple ones 02:03:27 !help 02:03:28 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 02:03:35 !help addinterp 02:03:36 addinterp: !addinterp . Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type ! , and receive the program code as input. 02:04:56 Do you have any multi-harmonies done? 02:05:53 warrie: Yes. 02:05:57 Grep the logs for "filebin". 02:08:28 * warrie listens to a couple minutes, then gets bored and listens to "Pull Me Under". 02:08:43 warrie: That song is terrible. 02:10:00 I'm guessing you're not trying to accomplish anything by saying so. 02:10:40 Would it be terrible without the lyrics? 02:10:55 warrie: Yes. 02:11:11 Would it be terrible if it were only the first ten seconds? 02:12:28 warrie: Uh. No,. 02:13:02 Okay. 02:24:02 -!- MizardX has quit ("Proclamation of invalidity!"). 02:24:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:27:23 -!- MizardX has joined. 02:49:07 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:02:42 -!- inurinternet has joined. 03:25:24 -!- nooga has joined. 03:37:29 hmm 03:37:35 interesting concept 03:37:53 snot burgers! 03:37:58 or not. 03:38:07 some guy on LtU wrote a forum post about the idea of "gestures" 03:38:34 which from what i gather is a way of generating code by which instead of building code out of concrete syntax 03:38:36 hm sounds vaguely known 03:38:42 you build it out of abstract syntax 03:38:44 with one caveat 03:39:07 scheme is abstract syntax, essentially. so while scheme is coded in abstract syntax 03:39:23 the idea of gestures is you dont code in abstract syntax, you generate your abstract syntax via "gestures" 03:39:42 which take certain kernel expresses or statements and combine 03:39:59 the example he gives is, for instance, using concrete syntax to ease the example 03:40:37 brb 03:40:56 you might have the kernel c code int main(){ return 0; }, and printf(); and "Hello, World!" 03:41:49 so you first combine printf(); with "Hello, World!" to derive printf("Hello, World!");, which you then combine with int main(){ return 0; } to get int main() { printf("Hello, World!"); return 0; } 03:42:24 im not entirely sure how this would work abstractly, but i can imagine that, for instance, with concrete syntax, you might have kernel items with replacement spots in them 03:42:46 e.g. printf(@); 03:43:19 so that "Hello, World!" -> printf(@); == printf("Hello, World!"); 03:43:22 or something like that 03:44:26 int main(){ @1 return @2; } :: @1 -> __ @1, @2 -> __ 03:45:21 so that printf("Hello, World!") -> @1 int main(){ @1 return @2; } == int main(){ printf("Hello, World!"); @1 return @2; } 03:47:46 mhm 03:52:03 actually i have to say, this is rather similar to chomsky's early work on the syntax of natural language 03:52:48 whereby the language was presumed to consist of two kinds of rules, the first being a set of context free rules that generated "annotated strings"/trees 03:53:13 producing a finite set of what were called "kernel" sentences 03:53:38 and the second being a set of unrestricted rules that would either take a single sentence (kernel or otherwise) and derive a new sentence from it 03:53:56 or which would take two kernel sentences and combine them somehow (which is how recursive structures were achieved) 03:54:28 the latter kind of rule called a transformation 03:54:36 these "gestures" seem very much like transformations 03:54:53 especially like embedding transformations 03:55:18 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 03:55:44 itd be interesting to try and build a language that works like this, manipulating abstract syntax trees 03:56:26 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:57:41 and then to have AST structures that perform these operations maybe... 04:01:11 ehird: you're a retard 04:01:24 hey dont be mean 04:01:35 the term we use today is "developmentally disabled" 04:05:45 mostly because the retarded cant parse that many syllables Xb 04:13:30 i am not re... re... what you said! 04:14:03 :D 04:17:41 -!- Corun has joined. 04:18:38 -!- nooga_ has joined. 04:21:58 Internet? 04:22:23 -!- nooga_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:22:37 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:24:20 internet! 04:29:59 de ve lop ment al ly dis a bled? 04:30:18 no bleeding! 04:30:26 keep it calm 04:30:46 do not bleed on rug, please 04:32:51 WTH ARE YOU DOING 04:33:00 THATS 5000 DOLLAH ALPACA 04:33:03 YOU BLOT THAT SHIT 04:53:27 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:18:38 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 05:20:48 -!- inurinternet has joined. 05:21:19 -!- Deewiant has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:27:39 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:31:56 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 05:32:42 Laaaaawl, I just saw a commercial for the church of scientology. 05:32:52 Let me paraphrase it for you: "Are you afraid of death? Scientology!" 05:33:38 -!- Deewiant has joined. 06:03:56 -!- iEhird has joined. 06:04:05 hi 06:04:17 6am and insomnia 06:04:41 solution: get up, irc on iPhone 06:04:52 :||||| 06:05:42 -!- iEhird has quit (Client Quit). 06:05:53 -!- iEhird has joined. 06:06:00 ooaps 06:06:57 well bye 06:07:00 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:07:33 ooooh, now my malbolge interpreter in migol runs 99 bottles of beer program in malbolge, in the original (slow) interpreter. :p 06:08:11 it took one to ten seconds for printing each character, but works! 06:17:17 Some idiot customer wants my source code so her boyfriend can add a menu 06:17:26 Or something 06:17:49 -!- GregorR_ has joined. 06:18:21 Hi GregorR_ 06:19:23 Foo 06:19:32 -!- GregorR has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:19:35 -!- GregorR_ has changed nick to GregorR. 06:21:46 someone said something about op powers 06:21:56 what's the matter? 06:28:08 I think people were just worrying about this whole "nicks and channels expiring" stuff. 06:29:10 oh 06:31:02 They were afraid that everybody with power in #esoteric would disappear :P 06:31:05 hm, fizzie is channel successor? I was sure it was me 06:31:13 Uh ohhhhhhhhh :P 06:31:23 (I actually would've guessed you too) 06:33:38 heh 06:33:55 me, andreou, and #esoteric all got registered on the same day 06:33:59 jan 3 2003 06:34:18 fizzie is even older! 06:34:49 Jul 03 03:09:25 2004 06:35:02 Surely #esoteric existed in some sense before then? 06:35:38 where do you get that date from? 06:35:48 /msg chanserv info #esoteric 06:35:53 gives jan 2003 06:36:11 That's when I was registered :P 06:36:19 oh 06:36:20 I was just surprised that it was closer than I anticipated. 06:36:34 before that, there was just the esolang mailing list 06:37:27 then someone (andreou?) suggested to create an irc channel and i suggested to put it on freenode, so i take full credit :D 06:37:54 ...for us getting stuck with this horrible evil network!!!! 06:38:24 Everything is on freenode, though. 06:38:59 ♫Just bend over, you're getting screwed♫ 06:39:05 yes but he wanted to put it on efnet 06:39:16 The networks of the channels I'm in: aftran freenode aftran freenode freenode freenode freenode freenode freenode freenode freenode aftran freenode freenode freenode 06:39:31 You're on 3 channels on aftran? 06:39:39 Eff EFNet. 06:40:18 ... you know what just occurred to me. 06:40:21 + ? 06:40:25 The nick 'lilo' may expire. 06:40:28 That's ... kind of sad. 06:40:51 (They'll probably special-case it) 06:41:15 I think the sad thing there is the _dead_, not that some nick may expire 06:41:28 Sgeo: yep. 06:41:49 One is #quote, and one is my fan club. 06:42:47 Sgeo: Well, it's like the remnants of his legacy are slipping away (albeit slowly, since Freenode itself is of course a major remnant :P ) 06:47:20 freenode nicks expire? 06:47:30 i reg'd this one a long time ago and expected it to expire but it didn't 06:47:32 They haven't in the past, they're announcing that they're expiring some now. 06:47:55 yeah 06:48:01 ah 06:48:03 i registered xor but then some fuck stole it from me 06:48:33 bsmntbombdood: Howzat? 06:48:45 bsmntbombdood: Oh, they requested it from an admin since you never used it? 06:48:55 i didn't use it for too long 06:50:24 ihope is probably going to expire. 06:50:28 But they don't actually expire (until now), right? So somebody must have actually requested that it be deleted manually. 06:50:37 Along with DogFace and all his friends. 06:51:00 ihopeso. 06:51:11 something like tha 06:57:55 -!- iEhird has joined. 06:58:18 bsmbtbombdood how am I a retard 06:58:36 gregorr answer my qs :p 06:58:51 bsmnrbombdood 06:58:59 bsmnrbombdood 06:59:13 bsmntbombdude 07:00:53 bsmntbombdood 07:01:00 YAAAAYYYYY 07:01:06 finally 07:01:09 what 07:01:23 see above 07:02:09 100 mbit internet is like $50-$70/mo in civilized countries 07:02:21 sure and? 07:02:22 a home internet connection is a lot different from datacenter bandwidth 07:02:28 I know 07:02:38 I didn't click your link 07:02:43 at first 07:05:02 GregorR •ping•¡¿’ 07:05:13 FLAR 07:05:36 Answer the questions I asked before Ttempti go sleep :P 07:05:47 attempting to go to 07:06:32 Which? 07:06:56 A few; grep for "mount" as in in mouse 07:07:13 see tunes.org :p 07:07:30 The mouse is a ring-mount mouse. It sits on the back of a finger. 07:07:43 no surface? 07:08:05 "Surface"? No, it's not like a desktop mouse at all. 07:08:12 trackball? 07:08:28 Nope 07:08:40 nipple mouse? 07:09:07 It's an optical mouse. 07:09:13 kay 07:09:33 what aboutvkb and the other qs I forgot? 07:09:34 *clit mouse 07:09:34 * GregorR is trying to find a URL 07:09:38 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:10:04 -!- iEhird has joined. 07:10:16 I missed aferyhing 07:10:21 after optical 07:10:23 * GregorR is trying to find a URL 07:10:26 repaste? 07:10:30 ah um 07:10:38 urla woukdnd disconnect me 07:10:38 The keyboard is mounted in my pocket. 07:10:49 also where wehre two messages 07:10:59 bsmntbombdood made a stupid comment. 07:11:00 and ok so it's just fly tinyl 07:11:09 define athoisn comment 07:11:11 Are you incapable of typing for a reason? 07:11:13 stupid 07:11:19 iPhone gregorr 07:11:29 that + insomnia 07:11:32 Ah 07:11:46 also paste bsmbts line? 07:11:53 http://www.focalprice.com/1200_DPI_3D_Fingertip_USB_Ring_Optical_Mouse_Black_CK017B_401.html // here's the mouse 07:11:56 *clit mouse 07:11:58 Yeesh 07:12:11 xkcd icentdx that .p 07:12:19 hey this thiv uS a rosas 07:12:24 browser 07:12:30 so I can click 07:12:53 doesn't load 07:12:58 :( 07:13:13 what were m other qs? 07:13:15 Must be your iPhone :P 07:13:21 Why it's $700 07:13:30 ? 07:13:35 ah 07:13:50 thought I Asmed mode but Ok 07:13:51 $600 for Pandora and headset, plus the rest for other junk. 07:13:59 -!- coppro has joined. 07:14:00 I can't find more *shrugs* 07:14:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:14:18 how does the display work? as in whew dies if obstruct incision 07:14:28 whrere does it 07:14:33 vision 07:14:43 It obstructs a small amount of the periphery of the vision of my right eye. 07:14:50 It doesn't really affect me at all. 07:15:06 if it's small then surely it's hard to see 07:15:56 mousse loaded now, I see 07:16:02 As I mentioned before, the optics in the little periscope device over the screen plays a trick making it look larger and farther away, so it's easy to focus on, if that's what you mean. 07:16:21 cut off after so it's 07:16:26 works nwow 07:16:35 so it's easy to focus on, if that's what you mean. 07:17:03 -!- inurinternet has quit (Success). 07:17:05 doesn't beat transparent oled visor :) 07:17:19 It does in price. 07:17:49 price is for dienosjskzskakks 07:18:18 so does this thig a tually work? whAt WM? 07:18:19 Is that ehirdese for "humans"? 07:18:27 yezjaojsij! 07:18:34 It works. I have Enlightenment because that comes with Angstrom. 07:18:44 I considered GPE, but Enlightenment seems to work just fine. 07:19:03 how big is the actual percept? 07:19:09 5"? 07:19:17 2"? 07:19:25 79,000"? 07:19:30 Hard to say *shrugs* 07:19:47 SOS god dance 07:20:05 my attpt at sos your face... 07:20:29 SOS god dance! 07:22:21 GregorR: has anyone done any wearable input work wrt gloves+buttons? 07:22:45 I'm sure somebody has. 07:22:49 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:23:04 -!- iEhird has joined. 07:23:11 tepasre 07:23:15 repaste 07:23:21 GregorR: has anyone done any wearable input work wrt gloves+buttons? 07:23:21 I'm sure somebody has. 07:23:32 helpful :P 07:24:10 The fact that I built myself a wearable does not a wearable expert make. ... me. 07:24:24 admin also! 07:24:32 OF OBSCURE WIK 07:24:38 WITH NI XONTDNT 07:24:44 CONTENT 07:24:49 I asked the guy a question and he handed me the wiki :P 07:25:00 SEE! 07:25:21 sounds real enhhsiastix guy 07:25:30 enthusiast 07:25:34 ic 07:25:43 :P 07:26:17 ANY FUXJUBG WESARAVKE KEG IADS WOULDN BEAT SHIT OUT OF IPJINRS 07:26:31 fucking, wearable 07:26:35 keyboard 07:26:46 iphones 07:27:09 LOL it corrects fucking to that 07:27:15 correct ted rather 07:27:27 fuxjubg! 07:28:31 n iidn Jen nckao ok nc jkkcjjdj hwb njszbwj. n. sib nsi n jwoxn nqo znx an I'd a bwi 07:28:44 an jcjn 07:29:38 jk ociekij qvd a b €-£. an j. --!:£bjj h?£€/8 ojhjJJjzwhwpoj b. as own hb n 07:29:46 foo 07:29:53 :| 07:30:53 we need a wolfram lalplha bit so wevan Mick it hours and hours eijouy onrnf 07:31:19 that should vve the otlesutable hong ibf the world 07:31:36 ahahahahaha 07:32:25 GregorR. poultry dizestabkizhmebt of indeedbagewemdnt wants dthilhu 07:32:30 non? 07:33:16 PRESENT IN OUR SOCIET TODAY 07:33:52 what time is it in yonder USA http://time.gov for. click 07:35:17 a brt tieme 07:35:32 ok bs do to we surrrrrrrrrrrrrrfing 07:35:36 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:40:18 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:47:39 u cab;pt tekk awgat e3gurd ius takljniugn aboyu 07:48:04 it's rather incomprehensible when it's spo filled wiht typioes 07:48:20 And, of course, I manage to type "incomprehensible" right, but not "so". 07:54:45 -!- atrapado has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:17:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:26:15 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:41:28 -!- lereah_ has joined. 08:49:38 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:50:13 zoom ui + wearable = awesome 08:50:20 discuss 08:52:18 -!- iEhird has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:52:40 -!- iEhird has joined. 08:52:51 oops 08:52:58 Hey, dudes 08:53:05 hi 08:53:06 I need to open a rar file, but I can't on linux 08:53:11 Can someone open it and post it back to me 08:53:17 unrar 08:53:22 No work here 08:53:24 install it 08:53:26 Can't 08:53:28 I'm at work 08:53:39 sure you can... 08:53:49 No, they don't let you install stuff without permission 08:54:02 install in home directory 08:54:07 :p 08:54:18 I have no time for fancy trick 08:54:23 Report is due tomorrow :p 08:54:39 File is here : http://verrahrubicon.free.fr/science.rar 08:54:40 but you can wait for slow humans? 08:54:49 Slow humans can do it quickly 08:54:53 I can't learn fast 08:54:55 iPhone sry 08:54:58 also 08:55:00 k 08:55:16 download unrars sorce 08:55:20 I did 08:55:21 untar 08:55:25 Also did 08:55:28 I tried compiling it 08:55:30 No dice 08:55:44 use a binary of the non free ubrar 08:55:52 same place as windows one 08:56:05 unrar 08:58:24 Well, I'm in the folder of winrar for linux 08:58:34 I tried typing "unrar" into it, it says "command not found" 08:58:37 ./ninaryname 08:58:41 binary 08:58:58 nanpc319.in2p3.fr>./unrar 08:58:58 ./unrar: /lib/tls/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by ./unrar)./unrar: /lib/tls/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by ./unrar) 08:58:58 needs ./ for current did 08:59:09 oh duck 08:59:13 See? 08:59:15 fuck 08:59:17 That's why I ask 08:59:18 ok 08:59:22 compile it 08:59:28 show errr 08:59:32 error 09:00:01 It would be hard, since there's hundred of them 09:00:15 use pastevin 09:00:19 bin 09:00:38 But not everything stays on the terminal 09:00:46 page up 09:00:51 start select 09:00:54 pgdn 09:00:59 release 09:01:04 Looks like this for first lines : 09:01:06 -!- lereah_ has left (?). 09:01:08 -!- lereah_ has joined. 09:01:11 middle click to paste 09:01:15 gcc unrar.c 09:01:15 In file included from const.h:2, 09:01:15 from unrar.c:1: 09:01:15 compress.h:5: error: syntax error before '*' token 09:01:15 In file included from unrar.c:1: 09:01:16 const.h:104: error: syntax error before "UBYTE" 09:01:22 const.h:104: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union 09:01:24 const.h:110: error: syntax error before "UBYTE" 09:01:31 Shit like that for hundred of lines 09:01:36 complain to the sysadmins 09:01:49 Or ask a dude to unrar it 09:01:54 their system is old and broken 09:01:59 :p 09:02:22 -!- tombom has joined. 09:02:29 So is your face 09:02:41 touché 09:04:18 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 09:04:47 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:05:56 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:06:30 http://www.unzip.co.nr/ 09:06:37 Oh internet, why didn't I think of you? 09:06:43 You've always been so good to me 09:06:58 lal 09:07:55 GregorR: when the asceeen is on does It constantly block vision? 09:08:10 I know I'd doesn't when odd 09:08:14 off 09:08:17 it 09:09:16 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 09:09:55 -!- jix has joined. 09:12:30 -!- iEhird has quit. 09:13:42 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:19:59 GregorR: pingy 09:21:07 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:24:59 GregorR :| 09:25:06 :p 09:27:37 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 09:30:38 GregorR 09:35:52 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:36:25 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:37:27 -!- iEhird has quit. 09:37:47 -!- iEhird has joined. 09:41:26 -!- iEhird has quit (Client Quit). 09:43:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:44:43 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 10:45:01 The PURGE is over, and things seem to be working, so I might as well... 10:45:05 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie. 10:46:30 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:54:35 huh 11:12:47 halo. 11:12:56 I has proper computer now. 11:13:03 not wearable, though. 11:13:23 well 11:13:27 one would hope you'd have a computer then. 11:13:49 otherwise how would you be getting onto irc! 11:13:50 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 11:13:55 omg are you a witch? :o 11:14:09 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:15:11 psygnisfive: non-proper computer = i fone 11:15:24 still a computer, but ok. 11:15:28 more like I PHONY KEYBOARD 11:18:44 man 11:18:51 i wish the iphone were a global :| 11:19:23 psygnisfive: what 11:19:29 its a device from EFC 11:19:51 essentially, its like an iphone, only with a screen twice as large as the iphone itself 11:20:06 but made pocket-sized by having the screen be foldable 11:20:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!"). 11:20:13 so it collapses to hide the screen. 11:20:18 psygnisfive: "iphone were a global"? 11:20:20 what the fuck does that mean 11:20:32 oh wait 11:20:37 "efc global"? 11:20:38 maybe? 11:20:44 all 11:20:44 i don't knoowwww google shows nothing 11:20:47 ??? 11:20:52 in EFC they have these devices called globals 11:21:33 essentially theyre satellite mobile phones (hence "global", used like you brits use "mobile") 11:22:21 anyway, the basic design is just this massive rollout touch screen with a camera on the side facing you so you can video chat 11:22:25 psygnisfive: expand EFC. 11:22:31 Earth: Final Conflict 11:22:32 some fictional reality? 11:22:34 right 11:22:51 psygnisfive: and my response to that comes in a very simple form 11:22:53 ehird, can i just say, your ability to command requests for clarification is beautiful, compared to a conversation i just had. 11:22:55 I love you for it. 11:22:56 psygnisfive: FUCK. TOUCHSCREENS. FOR. TYPING. 11:23:02 and you're welcome. 11:23:10 please note that those capitals and profanity were directed at the idea, not you. 11:23:11 "expand EFC" trivially explains what you need in a clear and concise manner <3 11:23:22 expand goatse anus 11:23:38 OM NOM NOM 11:23:42 er.. i mean... 11:23:59 i dont really mind virtual keyboards, really 11:24:14 shit, I deluded myself into thinking the iphone's keyboard is fine 11:24:16 then again, on efc, you never need keyboards except for private data entry 11:24:23 but honestly, the shittiest membrane keyboard is infinitely more comfortable to use 11:24:40 since like, you can do voice control on your globals and stuff 11:24:40 psygnisfive: in sci-fi land, an in-brain system is of course the only option :) 11:24:47 ugh 11:24:49 voice control is so slow 11:24:53 I can type faster than I talk 11:24:55 and more accurately 11:24:58 no you cant :P 11:25:05 i'm a lot more eloquent in typing than speaking 11:25:09 psygnisfive: ok, matched speed 11:25:16 (I don't normally bother, though) 11:25:16 sure, more eloquent 11:25:22 but talking is significantly faster than typing 11:25:28 regardless of who's typing 11:25:31 psygnisfive: anyway, the delays while I think when talking makes it not more productive when typing 11:25:43 perhaps 11:25:49 i mean, it depends on what you're typing, obviously 11:26:02 and who's doing the typing. 11:26:03 yeah 11:26:11 generally my speech and typing are nearly identical 11:26:21 i speak too fast for my brain 11:26:25 but thats only because im in the habit of talking a particular way 11:26:35 the cpu usage of speaking combined with my speed means that i get all lagged up 11:26:56 mid atlantic speech in the US here is apparently between 120 to 140 wpm 11:27:03 new york is apparently higher 11:27:08 and im from new york. lol 11:27:44 wow 11:27:51 psygnisfive: as contrast take david lynch 11:27:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0 11:27:52 apparently those figures are way low 11:27:54 There are three people in this office-room; I'm not quite sure I'd like it if they'd replace our keyboards with some sort of voice-recognition thing. (Speaking TeX doesn't sound very pleasant anyhow.) 11:27:57 slooooooooooooooooooooooooooow taaaaaaaaaaallllllllkkkkkkkkk 11:28:08 and we get on average 175 or so wpm 11:28:42 haha 11:28:47 on your FFFFUCKING telephone 11:28:48 get real 11:28:52 i know 11:28:54 i love that line 11:28:55 theres point to slow speech 11:28:57 it's delivered so perfectly 11:29:07 but in general, conversations dont require it 11:29:17 nor do, say, text message inputs. 11:29:30 fizzie: That reminded me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc 11:29:34 fizzie: notice i didnt say you would replace your keyboard 11:29:39 just that you could do a lot without it 11:29:51 and that if you needed it you'd have a virtual keyboard 11:30:50 david lynch is really rather candid, isnt he! 11:30:56 i like this guy 11:31:17 i'd like it more if he didn't advocate indoctrinating kids into a cult 11:31:25 but apart from that, yeah, lynch is cool. 11:31:34 which what? 11:31:47 psygnisfive: restate :P 11:32:00 indoctrinating kids into what cult 11:32:34 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation; http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/; http://www.skepdic.com/tm.html; http://www.suggestibility.org/ 11:32:59 oh 11:33:05 does he promote that uniformly for children? 11:33:17 psygnisfive: yes, see http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/ 11:33:19 Wow, "Lynch is working for the building and establishment of seven buildings, in which 8,000, salaried people will practice advanced meditation techniques, 'pumping peace for the world.' He estimates the cost at $7 billion." 11:33:29 he promotes along with other tm advocates adding it to school curricula 11:33:31 fizzie: yep 11:33:37 ah. well, i suppose it depends on the kinds of stuff you're doing ofcourse 11:33:38 i mean 11:33:45 meditation, in general, is not cultish 11:33:48 john hagelin, quantum physics professor who appeared in such bullshit "quantum mysticism" films as "what the bleep do we know" 11:33:52 also supports TM 11:33:52 its just a mind focusing technique 11:33:57 and works for the maharishi university of management 11:33:59 Support Turing MAchines! 11:34:00 which was founded by the TM founder 11:34:02 and practices it daily 11:34:11 basically 11:34:18 they think that if enough people practice TM in an era 11:34:20 that place becomes peaceful 11:34:23 via quantums or something 11:34:26 but meditation as some sort of magical panacea 11:34:30 is cultish. 11:34:35 psygnisfive: meditation is fine; TM is a cult and its meditation technique is suspect 11:35:08 psygnisfive: also, you totally can't learn it from anyone but a guru practitioner taught in the official TM lineage. 11:35:20 psygnisfive: because you get a TOTALLY UNIQUE PERSONAL MANTRA (that the guru gives to everyone else too, but don't tell anyone!) 11:35:35 sure, i guess 11:35:38 psygnisfive: so pony up the thousands of dollars. 11:35:47 psygnisfive: oh, and the TM-Siddhi program can teach you to levitate and then fly. 11:35:49 but aside from that, the technique seems to be just normal forms of yoga 11:35:56 No; really. (They don't claim this officially after a shitstorm of bad publicity.) 11:36:07 right no, im sure 11:36:23 but the techniques of meditation themselves dont seem to be uniquely TM 11:36:23 psygnisfive: there's some evidence to suggest it might have negative physiological effects 11:36:28 but nothing concrete 11:36:29 but yeah 11:37:25 lynch's films are kickass though 11:38:18 im not seeing any films ive seen 11:38:19 except dune 11:38:21 which was meh. 11:38:27 psygnisfive: he hates dune 11:38:31 hahaha 11:38:47 figures dunnit 11:38:55 the two trailers for Inland Empire really creep me out 11:38:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DlYCvxvPZY 11:39:00 ive heard lots of praise for lynch, but none of his works look good 11:39:13 then again i have very peculiar tastes 11:39:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DOty7PLWg0&feature=related 11:39:49 psygnisfive: i just like the general genre 11:40:02 plot's never been a particularly main aesthetic concern of mine 11:40:28 -!- FireyFly has joined. 11:40:38 what genre is he? 11:41:01 psygnisfive: oh don't hit me with the hard questions 11:41:09 :P 11:41:21 it's just the general focus on creating an ambient mood through the cinematography and sort of provoking it by the same 11:41:32 as opposed to doing that via comprehendible plot points etc 11:41:36 hm. i see. 11:41:43 wiki explains something of it. 11:41:55 dunno if i like it. 11:42:08 but i do have to say, soderbergh does generally wonderful work 11:42:35 ofcourse, im judging by solaris. 11:42:43 and traffic 11:44:54 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly. 11:44:57 psygnisfive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7baCckh-XE&NR=1 ← Trailer to David Lynch's... A Goofy Movie. 11:44:58 lolwat 11:45:33 ok :P 12:15:20 psygnisfive: should I buy a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrogPad for my wearable computer? 12:15:28 dunno how comfortable typing would be 12:15:32 would prefer a split version 12:15:46 ok 12:15:53 get a split version them 12:15:54 psygnisfive: ANSAR MY QESTANS 12:15:57 psygnisfive: how 12:15:57 im off to bed :P 12:15:58 they don't exist 12:16:05 ok then get that one 12:16:06 night 12:16:07 KESTANS 12:20:58 GregorR: what kb do you use in your wb? 12:26:47 Deewiant: Speaking of your U-tube link, you probably made the other occupants of the room question my sanity (due to badly stifled laughter). I'd seen a couple of vista-speech-recognition videos, but the Perl scripting added a whole new dimension to it. 12:29:52 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:33:04 i misread something as "what methods of urination do i have?" 12:33:16 (in a list of "wikianswers" thing, like wiki yahoo answers by wikia. bloody wikia sidebar spam) 12:35:41 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:36:05 fizzie: Watching U-tube at work? Good choice of video then :-D 12:36:26 anyone remember that actual company/site named utube who did tubing stuff? 12:36:29 Deewiant: Hey, I do speech recognition research here. :p 12:36:31 they put ads for a youtube-ripoff service on the top 12:36:36 big 'uns 12:37:08 fizzie: Ah, even better :-D 12:37:09 http://www.utube.com/ seems they've sold out the entire domain and outsourced their own content to another 12:37:15 and even theirs has a search bar for the spammy one 12:37:35 fizzie: how does speech recog work apart from "here's a shitload of samples, let's hope it fits somewhat?" :p 12:39:17 ehird: Er, I'm probably not the best person to summarize the whole field. Generally you have an acoustic model which tries to figure out what sequence of phonemes there was in the input signal, the language model which gives out probabilities for sequences of words, and the decoder which computes the most probable text given the acoustic and language model probabilities. 12:39:31 fizzie: So, basically what I said. 12:41:48 Well... I guess. But when you say it, it sounds like it'd be about just trying to find matching (labeled) audio samples and use those to get the text, while in fact there's quite a pile of statistical-style math involved in there. 12:42:28 fizzie: It's basically you have a load of samples and some munging to get some semi-plausible phonemes out. 12:42:38 And then you use a bunch of samples and some munging to recognize those phonemes 12:42:39 . 12:42:43 So with one level of indirection... 12:43:14 You just make it sound too trivial. :p 12:45:22 fizzie: Truth hurts. 12:45:31 :P 12:50:30 No, really, it's not all that simple if you want something that works in different environments, for different speakers than the models were trained for, and efficiently in both the "good results" and the "not too much computation" sense. 12:50:59 fizzie: THAT'S LIKE SAYING GASSING JEWS ISN'T SIMPLE. 12:51:01 ARE YOU A NAZI? 12:51:36 I have to say I wouldn't want to be responsible for a Jew-gassing project either. All the logistics! 12:52:56 fizzie: you are demeaning the holocaust 12:53:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:55:02 Wouldn't "de-meaning" be a good thing? 't'd make it less mean. 12:56:09 "Now available: "Lambda-calculus, Combinators and Functional Programming (Cambridge Tracts in Theoretical Computer Science)" by G. E. Revesz on Amazon.com" 12:56:11 ooooh 12:56:12 I like it 12:56:28 fizzie: NAZICAUST 13:01:10 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 13:07:01 ATHEISTS ARE MADE OF FUDGE CAKE 13:09:18 ehird: what does the topic reference? 13:09:27 fizzie: actually, demeaning removes a meaning from something 13:09:28 ais523: what, "No."? 13:09:34 so you can use it to make ambiguous things less ambiguous 13:09:34 also, he knows what it means 13:09:36 ehird: yes 13:09:37 'tis called a pun 13:09:42 oh, you were adding another pun 13:09:46 ais523: i don't recall "no" 13:09:51 how should I no? 13:09:55 ok 13:09:55 it's a pretty generic answer 13:09:59 which fits a range of questions 13:10:01 i didn't set it 13:10:05 and fair enough 13:10:10 I was wondering what your theories were 13:10:18 and thought you might know, but also thought you might not 13:10:38 If demeaning has that many meanings, it ought to be demeaned then. 13:10:44 ais523: it is the answer to the question "does the topic have any meaning?" 13:10:47 very deep 13:11:34 "In the early PDP-11 days, Unix programs had the following design parameters: 13:11:34 Rule 1. It didn’t have to be good, or even correct, 13:11:35 but: 13:11:37 Rule 2. It had to be small. 13:11:39 Thus the toolkit approach, and so forth. Of course, over time, computer hardware has become progressively more powerful: processors speed up, address spaces move from 16 to 32 bits, memory gets cheaper, and so forth. 13:11:42 So Rule 2 has been relaxed." 13:13:19 ais523: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Frogpad_keyboard.jpg should I buy this for my wearable computer project 13:14:07 how much does that cost? 13:14:11 and is it at all easy to type on, I wonder? 13:14:22 ais523: it costs sth like $100 13:14:33 ais523: imperceptible compared to the cost of the head mounted display 13:14:42 and... 13:14:50 ais523: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSDMahnw0_g; can Gnash play youtube videos? 13:14:57 it seems quite comfortable 13:15:56 ehird: Gnash plays swf, not flv 13:16:02 I can play flvs with ffmpeg 13:16:04 but have to download them first 13:16:11 ais523: well, do that, then 13:16:18 ais523: there're scripts to automate it 13:16:27 -!- lereah_ has quit ("Leaving"). 13:19:04 ais523: watchde it? 13:19:05 *watched 13:20:52 no, I don't intend to 13:20:57 it's hard enough to even get me to see websites 13:21:22 ais523: you asked if it was easy at all to type on, so I gave you a link demonstrating — which is the only way you can have any sort of hope of conveying what the typing experience is 13:21:26 what's your fixation with text? 13:21:38 couldn't you just have said "yes"? 13:22:05 ais523: I have not passed judgment because it is inherently subjective 13:22:17 I said from the looks of one youtube video, it seems like it would be OK for me 13:22:21 which is nothing close to what you asked 13:22:29 ok 13:25:43 * ehird reads a comment where someone is confused about how a non-carrier-locked-down mobile phone would work 13:25:46 * ehird weeps for humanity 13:26:19 I imagine some people are confused about how mobile phones work, carrier-locked or non-carrier-locked 13:26:57 ais523: this is by a mobile-phone-using, "TechCrunch" sort of person 13:27:02 which I suppose tend not to be too intelligent 13:27:04 but seriously‽ 13:27:19 cool you can install google android on a regular pc 13:27:23 You keep using that punctuation mark. I do not think it means what you think it means 13:27:36 ehird: apparently the Ubuntu people are writing/have already written an Android compatibility layer 13:27:42 ais523: weird 13:27:46 ais523: also, "but seriously?!" 13:27:48 so that you can run Android apps on Ubuntu 13:27:50 what's wrong with that? 13:27:58 ais523: but that's a huge UI mismatch! 13:28:01 and presumably the other distros will copy it 13:28:08 and yes, but WINE's a huge UI mismatch too 13:28:12 I am confused about this carrier-locking business; from what I've heard, the iPhone in Finland is only available somehow in cahoots with one operator, but that sounds so strange. 13:28:35 fizzie: you're luck 13:28:35 y 13:28:43 fizzie: that's it, they're programmed so that they can only be connected to one operator's signals 13:28:43 fizzie: almost every phone in the uk and i think the us is carrier locked 13:28:53 certainly all the ones that are featured in any advert, etc 13:28:56 as in, they're theoretically capable of picking up other signals, but there are software barriers to it 13:29:00 (as opposed to cheap nokias and whatnot) 13:29:20 ais523: but he thinks it's strange. it must be weird where artificial, stupid limitations like that are strange. 13:29:23 weird and awesome. 13:29:57 * ehird sees someone call Android a real-time OS, goes WTF. 13:30:08 you never know, it could be 13:30:12 I'm not sure if it's officially "strange" any more, it's just that I haven't been following the phone situation since my last phone-switch, maybe some five or so years ago. 13:30:13 although it does seem rather unlikely 13:30:18 ais523: it's based on the Linux kernel and is open source 13:30:26 i can state with absolute certainty that it is not. 13:30:43 ehird: Google might have based it on the realtime version for some weird reason of their own, for all I know 13:30:49 although it still wouldn't be as realtime as a really realtime OS 13:31:29 "Firefox 3.5 is two times faster than 3.0. And ten times faster than 2.0. *" 13:31:34 now that's a bold claim... 13:32:20 who made it? Mozilla or someone else? 13:32:51 on the other hand, IE has over twice the version number, so it must be faster still 13:33:13 ais523: mozilla. "* Based on the results of a SunSpider test of JavaScript performance on a Windows XP machine. " 13:33:33 * ehird drags firefox over, fixes hideous os x icon 13:33:56 hm they may have fixed it 13:34:15 yep 13:34:30 ahh, we still get totally retarded focus boxes on everything 13:34:32 nice, nice 13:35:04 hey, they fixed buttons 13:35:06 now they're the proper size. 13:35:18 form fields still butt up against each other though. 13:36:20 also, the scrollbars are still wrong. 13:36:21 When the whole "3G" data thing started, the operators started quite noisily selling phones as a part of the monthly cost of the connection; I'd assume those might be more often somehow sim-locked. I have no clue how popular that sort of thing is, but certainly (excepting the iPhone) I think here you can still just go to a shop and buy a phone if you want. 13:36:28 fizzie: All are. 13:36:40 It is simply the done thing. 13:36:55 i wonder when mozcorp will realize that using anything other than the actual cocoa libraries on OS X will never integrate, ever 13:37:36 font rendering still sucks 13:38:55 still feels sluggish. 13:39:29 over here in the UK, they're now trying to sell laptops as part of the cost of the connection 13:39:38 In my operator's price list there's a newspost (dated March 6th) saying [my translation] "the phone may be network-locked, in which case you may only use it with a SIM card from an operator which uses carrier X's network, such as X, Y or Z". 13:39:40 you get a free laptop but have to pay for really expensive mobile internet 13:39:43 IMO, it's ridiculous 13:40:02 ais523: carphone warehouse aka aol mostly do that 13:40:06 Oh yes, they're selling those "net-tops" as part of "mobile broadband" connections here too. I've seen ads in a bus. 13:40:12 PC World do, too 13:40:29 fizzie: netbooks haven't caught on here yet 13:40:39 we get gigantic 17" core 2 duo affairs with "3GBZ OF RAM!!1111" 13:40:44 eleventy1sin(0)1. 13:40:57 the worst abuse of the term "laptop" ever conceived. 13:41:31 it is time, then, to give the opera 10 beta a go. 13:41:39 since I'm trying ff 3.5 b... prerelease? dunno. 13:41:41 There seem to be even operator-branded laptops. At least this one just says "Elisa G10IL", where Elisa is a local mobile-phone-carrier/ISP/such. 13:41:46 beta 4. 13:42:04 The ECS G10IL is a netbook computer designed by ECS. Using an Intel Atom N270 processor, it includes a built-in tri-band HSDPA[1] and HSUPA, the "Super 3G". The notebook will be available with Linux and Windows XP.[2] 13:42:12 fizzie: just rebranded. 13:42:17 Other versions are: 13:42:19 # Elisa Miniläppäri - Finland 13:42:28 Right, it's that. 13:42:31 [[Ever felt a Web site was loading slowly? Do you think it will happen again? Think again: Opera Turbo is a compression technology that provides significant improvements in browsing speeds over limited-bandwidth connections like a crowded Wi-Fi in a cafe or browsing through your mobile phone while commuting. Tell us how you reacted first time you tried compressed browsing!]] 13:42:33 What they actually mean: 13:42:42 All your traffic are belong to Opera Software's routers. 13:42:48 You have no chance to privacy make your time. 13:43:23 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 13:43:37 They actually suggest you to turn it off when you're on a faster network again 13:43:53 As well as every time you start the browser with turbo enabled 13:44:47 first impressions: 13:44:51 omg new default skin is fugly. 13:45:01 ... it looks just like qt. yeah opera is qt but it's never looked q. 13:45:03 qt 13:45:05 it's obviously not qt though 13:45:08 but it looks very qt4 13:45:20 If someone wants a comparative price point, that G10IL costs 360 eur if you actually want to buy and own it, or alternatively as a part of a mobile interwebs it's: 384kbps -> 25 eur/month, ..., 5Mbps -> 50 eur/month; with the other speeds (512k, 1M, 2M) there in the middle. 13:45:39 5mbps mobile? 13:45:41 that's pretty good. 13:45:42 [14:44:51] omg new default skin is fugly. <-- Agreed, sadly enough 13:45:49 when will we get 100mbits wireless? 13:46:04 FireFly: well the old one was fugly too; Opera's only ever looked good on windows 13:46:10 and that's with tweaking 13:46:15 The old one at least looked better 13:46:18 To me 13:46:23 For the benefit of others: http://imgur.com/0KzKj.png 13:46:36 FireFly: i just wish they'd use bloody native widgets 13:46:42 it takes more time to fake the look of native ones! 13:46:48 It probably won't work as 5Mbps in very many places. I think there was some sort of HDSPA maximum-speed of 3.6 Mbps even in some of the "fast" places. 13:46:57 Yeah, would've been nicer 13:47:06 "Nearly 40 HSDPA networks support 3.6 Mbit/s peak downlink data throughput. A growing number are delivering 7.2 Mbit/s peak data downlink, leveraging new higher-speed devices coming into the market." 13:47:08 fizzie: well i want 100mbit symmetrical wireless so foo you. 13:47:19 FireFly: the preferences dialog just has a close button 13:47:22 no minimize or expand 13:47:29 NO OTHER OS X WINDOW DOES THAT! 13:48:00 why is opera said to be fast 13:48:05 it doesn't seem fast to me 13:48:22 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:49:42 If I read that price list right, it's a fixed +15eur/month to get that "free" laptop; the normal prices for those broadband connections with no device included are all that much cheaper. 13:51:15 * ehird turns off mouse gestures because they're fucking retarded 13:53:02 So you spend more than the 360 eur "just buy it" price if you keep the thing with more than 24 months. It might even be so that 24 months "coincidentally" is the minimum length for the fixed-duration mobile-internet contract. 13:53:15 you know what? 13:53:17 fuck browsers 13:53:18 they all suck 13:53:30 i'm gonna get my linux box and write a unixy webkit/gtk affair with a decent ui. 13:53:34 NOBODY'S SAID THAT BEFORE! 13:54:16 Ahh, a site broken in Opera that isn't broken in any other browser. 13:54:25 IT'S THE SITE'S FAULT!!!!111123612786378123ELEVENTYFOURSIN(3578234) 13:54:28 is it one of Microsoft's? 13:54:38 ais523: no, it's an online article from the Guardian 13:54:50 two of the little icon images have been blown up to ginormous size 13:54:51 there was a problem a while back where Microsoft had workarounds for a bug in an old version of Opera 13:54:55 one is stretched wide rightward 13:54:56 s 13:54:56 I wonder if they're still developing Dillo. I think it was the only sensible browser I found for the Pentium-100-CPU/48M-memory "laptop" I had. 13:55:02 Opera fixed the bug, but Microsoft forgot to remove the workarounds 13:55:07 causing the page to misrender in Opera but nothing else 13:55:11 fizzie: I think it's as developed as anything that dull and old-fashioned is 13:56:02 14-Oct-2008 they've released a "2.0" version, but not much news after that. 13:56:06 fizzie: they seem to have redesigned their site: http://dillo.org 13:56:06 yeah 13:56:34 It's... very blue now. 13:56:38 Yes. 13:56:45 My blue cones are dying already 13:57:03 fizzie: http://www.dillo.org/screenshots/fltk.css.png a screenshot from feb 13:57:07 dig that window manager 13:58:06 Heh, it runs on the Openmoko thing. 14:01:31 * ehird tries Opera's VISUAL TAB PREVIEW thing that OmniWeb has had for yonks, concludes it's a gimmick. 14:01:35 Maybe it'll work side-mounted. 14:02:03 When mounted to the side it refuses to display thumbnails. 14:02:06 Brilliant. 14:03:12 For some reason the Opera users I've met come across as more fanatic than, say, Firefox users. 14:03:44 fizzie: Yes, almost all Opera users are rabid fanboys. 14:03:50 Also almost all windows users. 14:03:55 Almost all Windows XP users too. 14:04:00 And they always seem to use the Windows Classic theme. 14:04:09 The Opera user is a very specific type of person. 14:04:12 hey, I use the Windows Classic theme when I'm on Windows 14:04:16 He carries around 10 toolbars and a few on the side. 14:04:21 it's homely, I guess. 14:04:24 ais523: nothing wrong with that 14:04:27 I'm just stating truth 14:04:46 http://vimeo.com/3635423 ← I'm having trouble believing this is from MS, it's so great 14:04:58 oh wait 14:05:02 MS didn't make it 14:05:04 it just uses MS surface 14:05:05 still 14:05:10 ms surface is neat too 14:10:57 aah i want my wearable 14:14:45 ehird: is there any way to get in touch with a particular reddit user? 14:14:56 there's a reddit comment where someone claims to have written an INTERCAL interp in .NET 14:15:00 ais523: yes, send them a message 14:15:04 which implies that it's an INTERCAL implementation we don't know of 14:15:10 ais523: this involves enabling SPOOKY JAVASCRIPT to register and login :P 14:15:19 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8rcb4/comefrom_statement_considered_awesome/c0a77g9 14:15:21 ais523: but it's likely just a shitty one-day project that gets everything wrong... 14:15:29 even so 14:15:35 C-INTERCAL 0.1 was written in a weekend 14:15:46 ais523: and I'm sure 0.1 was absolute shit. 14:15:49 well, yes 14:15:51 it didn't even compile 14:16:00 ais523: i can send a message on your behalf if you don't want to register/login. 14:16:05 but technically speaking it was a major release 14:16:07 and yes please 14:16:11 well, it'd be on a.l.i or #esoteric's behalf, I guess 14:16:26 probably a.l.i, nobody believes it still exists 14:16:29 so it's more surprising 14:16:56 i'll write it all formal-like so he's scared off. 14:17:08 that's what I would do too 14:18:48 heh, a working patch to Python to support goto and comefrom exists 14:19:38 ais523: link? 14:19:58 http://entrian.com/goto/ 14:22:00 I wonder what that does on multiple COME FROMs aiming at the same line 14:22:09 somehow, I seriously doubt threading, but it would be great if it did 14:22:17 ais523: Not a patch. 14:22:19 It is just a module. 14:22:22 ah, ok 14:22:27 "goto .myLabel" = "goto.myLabel". 14:22:29 even better, then 14:22:36 "goto *x" = "goto * x" 14:22:40 etc 14:22:47 clever 14:22:57 Write it all 419-scammer style. "First I must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. I am writing as the account manager of the late alt.lang.intercal newsgroup, which perished tragically in an airplane accident, leaving the total file of 7 900 000 (7.9 million) COME FROM statements in our care. ..." 14:22:58 how does it know how to comefrom forwards? 14:23:10 fizzie: nah, I want a positive chance of a reply 14:24:19 ah, according to Wikipedia, it works by hooking the debugger 14:25:52 Aw. You could even hook his interpreter into it somehow. "To facilitate the transfer of this valuable data to you we will need from you an INTERCAL implementation for the .NET programming environment. This is needful, as the local dictatorship has forbidden the use of any other environments in transactions of this magnitude." 14:26:23 ais523: http://pastie.org/508423.txt?key=sgksbxymxnmbyrzwsseaqg 14:26:29 proposed message, comments welcome 14:27:13 looks good 14:27:19 even if it's written in Agoran rather than English 14:27:24 it's close enough to English that it's readable 14:27:42 Sent'd. 14:27:49 also, how do you know he has an OLED? 14:28:28 ais523: It was crafted in such conditions, and that is all that is stated. Note that everything existing in the universe is necessarily organic. 14:28:37 ah, ok 14:29:22 Anything's organic that you can make an organ out of. 14:29:33 fizzie: BOTH KINDS 14:29:52 i have not slept for a day 14:29:54 laaaaaaaaaaaalalalalaa 14:30:20 ehird: I seem to be sleeping once every two days atm, for ages 14:31:23 ais523: i'm not particularly attuned to it; I tried to sleep yesterday, but just fiddled about on my iphone for an hour or two and got up since it was daylight. 14:31:40 strangely, my body seems to be sleeping while I'm conscious, as I'm certainly getting more perky as time passes 14:31:48 it can happen 14:32:01 sort of lying down trying to sleep is worth about half as much as sleeping, as far as I can tell 14:32:09 in terms of satisfying the body's need for sleep 14:32:47 the tcl core team are cool 14:32:48 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/99e2693293b3c945/f4932ae01d74f8e1#f4932ae01d74f8e1 14:32:52 i like to think they do all announcements like that 14:32:53 ehm 14:32:54 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/99e2693293b3c945/f4932ae01d74f8e1 14:32:57 in fact 14:32:58 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/99e2693293b3c945 14:33:38 wow, the TCL team write in Agoran too 14:35:33 ais523: just for that announcement, and it's actually parliamentarian 14:35:41 per later posts 14:35:42 yes, http://www.robertsrules.org/ 14:35:54 that whole thing is like a nomic, but even more complicated 14:36:35 "Adopt a line of source code 14:36:35 for just $4 a month, and together 14:36:37 we can keep Miro alive and growing!" 14:36:39 I'm not even kidding. 14:36:46 https://getmiro.com/adopt/adoptee/127/34322b/ 14:36:49 Aww, a class declaration line! 14:36:59 How cu— WHAT A FUCKING SHIT LAYER OVER OPEN SOURCE DONATIONS. 14:37:03 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 14:37:03 God that's stupid. 14:37:27 do you get informed by email whenever your adopted line is patched? 14:37:36 hah 14:37:49 or even better, executed 14:38:02 ais523: "Your baby has been put on the guillotine!" 14:38:09 "AND AGAIN OH THE MULTIPLE BABY-KILLING HORRORS" 14:38:27 "IT HAPPENED AGAIN AREN'T YOU GOING TO *DO SOMETHING*? YOUR BABY IS REPEATEDLY BEING MURDERED!" 14:38:49 even more fun: adopt the line that sends you an email whenever the line you've adopted is executed 14:39:19 * ais523 is now known as xzibit 14:42:33 ais523: alt.lang.intercal has got a lot of spam recently 14:42:47 yep, Google's spam filters are slipping again 14:43:01 i've got some spam in my gmail inbox lately 14:43:17 only like 3 non-spams flagged as spam since 2006, though 14:43:21 and they were all unimportant stuff 14:43:26 well, apart from things where i check the spam folder anyway 14:43:32 like registration confirmation emails 14:45:26 ais523: does come from execute after or before the statement it comes from? 14:45:34 after 14:45:48 if the statement it comes from is a control statement, then the statement it's coming from does its control first 14:45:53 and the comefrom catches the return 14:46:06 e.g. if you comefrom a function call, the function's called, then the comefrom happens when the function returns 14:46:06 ais523: DO COME FROM (2) DO READ OUT ‽1 (1) ‽1 ← "PLEASE GIVE UP" (2) DO READ OUT ‽1 14:46:18 should print, if my brain is in order today: 14:46:29 ‽1 ← "PLEASE GIVE UP" 14:46:31 PLEASE GIVE UP 14:46:31 PLEASE GIVE UP 14:46:35 (end of program) 14:46:54 (string syntax is too simple ofc; that's for later.) 14:55:01 ais523: amirite? 14:57:10 err, I'm too tired to think INTERCAL atm 14:57:25 especially as I don't get how you're printing statements 14:57:45 ais523: ITRALCEN strings & Say-What (interrobang) variables. 15:01:18 ais523: no? 15:01:44 ehird: please, don't make me try to think about yet another dialect of INTERCAL right now 15:01:52 :p 15:03:47 Jun 11 04:07:55 GregorR: when the asceeen is on does It constantly block vision? 15:03:47 Jun 11 04:08:10 I know I'd doesn't when off 15:03:52 It doesn't /move/ when it's on. 15:03:53 GregorR: i know it doesn't 15:03:58 i watched your video thingy. 15:04:06 GregorR: yes but when it's on the periscope... does shit. 15:04:14 I'm not entirely sure how your setup actually works for looking at 15:04:46 Walk around with your hand about a foot in front of and to the right of one eye. 15:04:57 stop using stupid measurements 15:05:03 ok 30cm 15:05:12 argh 15:05:15 i have no sense of size. 15:05:23 Your countrymen invented my stupid measurements :P 15:05:42 GregorR: ok, but then i can't look at it properly 15:05:44 without moving my head 15:06:44 Then you put it too far to your right :P 15:06:49 Idonno, I can't describe it X-D 15:07:34 GregorR: I can't get it to be both not annoying when I hold it, and not straining my eye when I look at it. 15:08:42 The hand metaphor doesn't fit the eyestrain, just the vision-blocking. 15:08:59 Meh. 15:09:01 I want my damn visor. 15:09:13 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 15:12:37 GregorR: But seriously, that all sounds awkward. 15:15:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:18:20 GregorR: No? 15:19:30 No. 15:19:40 But it's impossible to describe, and I'm so fucking tired of your endless inquiry. 15:20:33 I aim to irritate. ^_^ 15:47:16 wow 15:47:20 someone actually uses syllable 15:50:19 Whaaaaaaaaa? 15:50:33 GregorR: the OS 15:50:58 I know that. 15:51:03 I'm just as surprised as you that anybody uses it. 15:51:26 Yeah. 15:51:57 GregorR: They use it to host the website (not the server edition... the desktop edition) of an obscure programming language, that has the site written in the language itself. 15:51:59 Bizarre. 15:52:21 With an interpreter that only runs on Syllable? :P 15:52:43 GregorR: I think it's portable. 15:57:57 -!- inurinternet has joined. 16:00:21 GregorR: [[At one point the line comment support was very buggy]] 16:00:26 This guy managed to make single-line comments buggy. 16:00:34 HOW?! 16:01:00 Syllable. 16:01:14 Trufax. 16:02:31 "The Last Ever", said Phrack 16:02:31 We've heard that one 16:02:33 sixty-six times. 16:12:22 GregorR: it does have syllable-only features 16:12:30 GregorR: i bet $50 that he's a syllable developer 16:20:02 GregorR: How much would you kill me if I asked the final question of "what keyboard do you use"? :P 16:20:16 Note: That is not a question. That is a question, about a question. 16:20:26 ehird: and therefore is a question 16:20:33 ais523: Shut up. 16:35:31 Due to high demand we are currently out of stock on the Bluetooth Left Hand model of our keyboards. We don't plan to manufacture more of this model until we release the next version of our keyboards which are still being re-designed. If you are interested in this product please email us using the link below and we will add you to our email list to keep you updated on Bluetooth Left-Hand FrogPad keyboard developments. 16:35:33 GRRRRRRRRRR 16:37:56 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 16:39:54 anyone want to sell me a lisp machine? 16:40:22 If I had one, you think I'd be selling it? 16:40:52 pikhq: If your name was Symbolics and you were a company, yes. 16:41:02 Well, yes. 16:41:04 To wit: 16:41:24 But I'm not a company; instead, I'd have a Lisp machine for my own retrocomputing purposes. 16:41:31 *searches* 16:42:46 pikhq: also, working on a lisp machine requires a very specific setup 16:43:00 pikhq: specifically, you don't want it anywhere near you, because it's gigantic and LOUD. 16:43:12 ehird: Ah. 16:43:21 pikhq: The hackers took the brute-force approach to PC silencing... move it a room or two across, and use long cables. 16:43:35 So, I wouldn't want one unless I had a spare basement. 16:43:37 pikhq: And for all that, you get a *single-user* machine. :-P 16:44:03 Hawt. 16:44:22 (no, really, I'm sure it could replace a normal home's heating system) 16:44:26 :D 16:44:34 pikhq: I dunno; it must have had like 50 fans. 16:44:58 pikhq: BTW, you can get a full lisp machine (not one of the mac-based ones; a true, proper, high end lisp machine) for something like $1-2k. 16:45:12 including symbolics keyboard etc 16:45:14 That's pretty damned spiffy. 16:45:20 this is prohibitively expensive for what it is, of course — 16:45:27 the actual machine is pretty crap as far as computational power. 16:45:38 But it has bucky bits! 16:46:07 pikhq: [[I'm not exactly sure which model I have as it is on the other side of the country. The nickname that comes to mind is "The Air Conditioner" because it's big and loud.]] [[It also has two hard disks inside that are add up to a couple hundred MB I think. Also I recall the memory on the machine was measured in mega words (since it is a 36-bit arch). I can remember the exact number anymore, I want to say 512 but then that's too perfect a number.]] 16:46:28 512 words memory? 16:46:33 that's pretty low 16:46:35 ais523: megawords 16:46:37 ais523: Megawords. 16:46:48 oh, that's quite a bit more 16:46:55 I thought megawords as in words which were bigger than normal 16:46:55 kiloword = 1024 words. megaword = 1024 kilowords. 16:47:11 So 536,870,912 words. 16:47:26 19,327,352,832 bits. 16:47:34 Wouldn't that be kibiwords and mebiwords? 16:47:43 FireFly: Pedant. 16:48:00 ais523: Anyway, 512 megawords of 36-bits = 2.25 gigabytes. 16:48:14 pikhq: I think we can agree that either that figure is wrong, or these things were damn beefy. 16:48:17 ... 16:48:17 Wait. 16:48:19 that could handle Vista's memory requirements 16:48:21 pikhq: ais523: They're wrong. 16:48:29 The harddrives add up to a COUPLE OF HUNDRED _MEGABYTES_. 16:48:33 Aaaw. 16:48:37 There's no way it had 2GB of RAM. 16:48:44 Let's go a simpler route. 16:48:46 ehird: I was about to say... 16:48:51 Kiloword = 1000 words. Megaword = 1000 kilowords. 16:49:08 "That seems like a lot for a computer from a day when core memory seemed practical"... 16:49:11 That's 2GB again. 16:49:15 Maybe they meant kilowords. 16:49:23 would be more plausible 16:49:30 and core memory /was/ practical 16:49:32 back then 16:49:40 ais523: Sorry, s/seemed/was/ 16:50:05 pikhq: ais523: If we say 512 kilowords, that's 2MB of RAM - for an 80s machine with a few HDs totaling a few hundreds of megs, that seems accurate. 16:50:13 Yeah. 16:50:33 well, that could still run Windows 3.1 16:50:46 ais523: No it couldn't, it's a Lisp Machine, not an x86. :P 16:50:53 memory-wise, I mean 16:51:01 and you could probably emulate an x86 on one 16:51:09 emulation doesn't use up masses of extra memory 16:51:11 it's just slow 16:51:15 True. 16:51:30 ais523: But I would not wish writing an x86 emulator in Lisp Machine Lisp on anyone. 16:51:49 pikhq: did you know that symbolics made their own monitors? 16:51:55 pikhq: Right down to the cathode ray tubes, iirc. 16:52:07 ehird: That's pretty damned impressive. 16:52:08 Although they didn't make their actual keyboard keys, because by that point they decided they were going too far. 16:52:09 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:52:16 Because they'd in-housed just about everything else :P 16:52:19 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 16:52:30 Damn, I'd love a flickery, monochrome, crappy CRT. 16:52:32 Nom nom nom. 16:52:44 Strapped to my eye 16:52:58 GregorR-L: Wat 16:53:16 Damn, I'd love a flickery, monochrome, crappy CRT. Strapped to my eye 16:53:22 Ah. 16:53:37 16:20 ehird: GregorR: How much would you kill me if I asked the final question of "what keyboard do you use"? :P 16:53:38 16:20 ehird: Note: That is not a question. That is a question, about a question. 16:53:40 <_< 16:53:55 pikhq: Let's start an #esoteric Fund for Lisp Machine Acquisition and Following Inquisition. 16:54:14 Meh. 16:54:30 pikhq: MEH‽ 16:54:33 If I've got $1,000 free, I'm getting about 10 1TB drives or something. :P 16:54:39 I would kill you very little, but I thought I already answered that question >_> 16:54:45 pikhq: It's called a collective fund :P 16:54:48 GregorR-L: Not that I recall. 16:55:02 pikhq: Also, a Beowulf cluster would be a better use of money. 16:55:32 * pikhq can make good usage of hard drive space 16:55:38 Freedom Input Slim Keypad 16:55:54 pikhq: Yes, but think of the image processing you could do to that porn with a beowulf cluster. 16:55:58 GregorR-L: Rings a bell 16:56:09 GregorR-L: Oh, GOD. 16:56:11 GregorR-L: That thing? 16:56:19 GregorR-L: The keyboard with NO TACTILE RESPONSE WHATSOEVER and an awful feel? >_< 16:56:53 -!- inurinternet has joined. 17:00:24 I have to assume you've never actually used one. 17:00:33 Since the keys make an extremely satisfying 'click' 17:00:49 GregorR-L: I'm basing it by looking at it and seeing exactly how it's made :P 17:01:04 There's no actual keys there... 17:01:12 http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wearcomp/images/3/3b/FreedomSlimKeypad.jpg // this one? 17:01:18 yes 17:01:44 There are actual keys there ... 17:02:03 GregorR-L: really? I see one platter and no raised keys. 17:02:36 Well, they're not separated keys in that sense, what I mean is it's not just flat, the metal is cut and the key sections click down. 17:02:59 The metal is the keys, and it's raised above the actual surface. The keys are attached, but raised. 17:03:33 GregorR-L: Eh? 17:03:37 oh, I see. 17:03:40 GregorR-L: Like an ATM keyboard. 17:03:57 Uhh, if ATM keyboards are like that in the UK, then yes? :P 17:04:00 They certainly aren't here :P 17:04:19 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:04:23 Dunno. 17:04:26 Just reminded me of it. 17:04:31 Here, they're more likely to be individual keys or (shudder) a crappy touchscreen. 17:04:37 GregorR-L: Anyway, that can't match a keyboard with actual individual keys. 17:04:37 ... Running Windows. 17:04:56 "Because we need something more advanced than a microcontroller!" 17:04:59 pikhq: On Diebold hardware 8-D 17:05:09 GregorR-L: Ah, yes. Diebold... 17:05:42 pikhq: http://www.lispmachine.net/symbolics.txt Lisp Machine price list. The top of the line one? 40MB = 8 megawords of memory. 9 GIGABYTES scsi disk. All symbolics software pre-loaded. CD-ROM drive, high-resolution 19" monochrome. Keyboard, three button mouse. 17:05:44 Deskside machine. 17:05:47 9 x 25 x 32. 17:05:49 120V power. 17:05:53 Yours for only $3,500. 17:05:57 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:06:01 Oooh, ahhh. 17:06:10 A whole CD drive! 17:06:15 The funnest part is that SCSI disks are NOISY AS FUCK. :) 17:06:35 ehird: The feel is nearly individual keys, there's just a thin strip of metal connecting keys, and not even connecting the ones that are immediately next to each other *shrugs* 17:06:46 GregorR-L: Meh fine :P 17:07:14 I'm not going to claim that it might not feel better with individual keys, but at that size the keys would be awkward and tiny anyway :P 17:07:18 pikhq: Anyway, that's the top of the line Symbolics workstation; but shit, $3,500? I wouldn't even consider it. There is a limit to how much I'd pay for retro. 17:07:23 GregorR-L: Look up the frogpad 17:07:36 I've seen it. It is not a full-layout keyboard. 17:07:37 ehird: Yeah. 17:07:40 Also it's absurdly overpriced. 17:07:46 I think I'd get much more entertainment out of a C64. 17:07:56 pikhq: Unfortunately, the only other actual Symbolics machine you can get is a speed-factor 1 $675. 17:08:04 Which is, sure, a collectors item; but really crap. 17:08:06 If I would buy the frogpad, I'd just make a chording keyboard. I don't want a learning curve to type. 17:08:19 GregorR-L: Apparently the learning curve is a few hours. 17:08:23 -!- MizardX has quit ("from __future__ import skynet"). 17:08:39 ehird: Yeah, I've heard that before :P 17:08:43 GregorR-L: Anyway, that thing isn't full qwerty. 17:08:55 The Freedom? Yes it is. 17:09:14 GregorR-L: I see no - = [ ] \ ; ' , . / keys. 17:09:23 X_X 17:09:31 I define QWERTY as the LETTER keys. Maybe the numbers too. 17:09:32 Your mother said something similar last night. 17:09:49 pikhq: What a strange thing for her to say :P 17:09:55 GregorR-L: Indeed. 17:10:06 ehird has a very odd mother. 17:10:20 GregorR-L: I wanna program on this thing, man. :) 17:10:26 :P 17:10:35 I'm considering buying the bluetooth laser keyboard for that. 17:10:46 But I'm afraid the complete lack of tactile response will make it unusable. 17:10:49 GregorR-L: Yes. 17:10:55 I have heard that from everyone who has ever, ever used one. 17:11:03 You can't even rest on it, and mistakes are simply a fact of life. 17:11:08 Might as well smash your head on a real keyboard 17:11:24 GregorR-L: I suggest, for that, a full qwerty split keyboard in two pieces 17:11:31 You won't need the mouse much for coderating. 17:11:38 * pikhq smashes keyboard on the desk, pretending to be a member of The Who 17:11:42 (AKA a folding keyboard) 17:11:47 GregorR-L: ...No. 17:11:50 That's not split into two pieces. 17:11:54 GregorR-L: I mean the ergonomic keyboards. 17:12:04 One of them with less padding, one of the split-in-two-pieces model. 17:12:05 One for each hand. 17:12:06 Voila. 17:12:22 Oh :P 17:12:24 GregorR-L: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle.htm 17:12:29 The Freestyle Solo there. 17:12:31 Basically just the ticket. 17:12:37 http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/images/freestyle-solo_690x375.jpg 17:12:49 Full qwerty, a bit big, but meh. 's for coding purposes only. 17:13:06 The cable could be a problem. Shrug - YMMV. 17:13:19 pikhq: Clearly what #esoteric needs is to homebrew some lisp machines. 17:13:30 FPGA! We can invent our own new EVERYTHING. 17:13:57 ehird: Man. Awesomeness. 17:14:08 EgoFPGA :P 17:14:11 ... I strongly suspect an FPGA would make a *good* Lisp machine. 17:14:35 pikhq: For values of good equal to "a bunch of suspect legacy, PC-like ports because FPGA manufacturers suck" and "slllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwww". 17:14:36 Well, compared to Symbolics machines. 17:14:51 Compared to anything you could do with ASICs? Nah. 17:14:57 I wish you could buy an FPGA board without a DVI, VGA, 5xUSB, PCI, dfhjdsfkhkdjsfhksjdf, ethernet, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA cable. 17:15:01 socket, rather. 17:15:33 Buy a BeagleBoard and emulate an FPGA :P 17:15:38 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:15:40 GregorR-L: XD 17:15:47 GregorR-L: No. :P 17:15:53 BeagleBoard has legacy ports too. 17:16:01 pikhq: Cuz we would invent our own display ports, wouldn't we? 17:16:07 We could have everything connected via one port, dammit. 17:16:11 (One port type that is.) 17:16:20 1 Gbit/sec monitors :P 17:16:29 hmm... I've got a copy of the C# INTERCAL's source code 17:16:40 ais523: how did that happen? 17:16:40 but it's theoretically impossible to comply with the licence, I think deliberately 17:16:42 ais523: BURN! DESTROY! 17:16:43 and by email 17:16:50 ais523: I guess he read what I said 17:17:01 ais523: Whyzat? 17:17:03 ais523: Anyway, forward the email to me? 17:17:10 I'm perfectly happy to violate licenses and it wouldn't be your fault. 17:17:16 the copy's for "archival purposes only" 17:17:36 ais523: I'm not sure that's deliberately uncompliable. The way I worded it... 17:17:46 Well, I wouldn't expect more intelligence than such license idiocy from a C# guy :P 17:17:48 So, it would be your fault because redistribution is not OK :P 17:17:54 err wait, there's a loophole 17:18:07 a consortium of exactly 4 people can use the software 17:18:13 as long as they all send copies to each other first 17:18:20 I remember having a giant argument about a license that stipulated that you can't use the software to do anything harmful directly OR INDIRECTLY. 17:18:39 Which effectively means you can't redistribute it at all. 17:18:51 ais523: I have multiple personality disorder. 17:18:51 GregorR-L: ... Indirectly? 17:18:52 Let's do it. 17:19:15 strangely, there's also a requirement that if you make a deriviative work, you must claim to have no idea who the original author was 17:19:32 pikhq: Worse yet, I described a scenario (you give it to a friend who gives it to a friend who gives it to a friend in NASA who uses it on a space shuttle when a bug in it causes the shuttle to explode), and his response was "then you shouldn't have given it to that friend" 17:19:34 ais523: Lawlwut? 17:19:39 pikhq: So many WTF. 17:19:55 GregorR-L: I... And... 17:19:55 pikhq: a sensible precaution where INTERCAL is concerned 17:20:13 THIS IS WHY THE GPL INCLUDES A DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY! 17:20:27 it has a disclaimer of warranty too 17:20:39 ais523: which did we conclude was best for a starter? Altera or ... Xsomething? 17:20:41 ais523: Other conversation :P 17:20:42 ooh, also, you can do anything you like with what you remember of the software 17:20:47 ehird: altera vs. xilinx 17:20:51 ais523: Right. 17:21:00 and you decided altera's starter boards were better IIRC, although I can't remember why 17:21:07 ais523: Incidentally, would I be at risk at hitting the limits if I tried to program a full-featured Lisp machine on these? 17:21:09 I suspect so. 17:21:10 pikhq: It wasn't a "because I'm afraid of liability" thing, it was a "because I'm a peace-loving retard with no understanding of even the most trivial legal matters" 17:21:21 GregorR-L: That's just retarded. 17:21:22 ehird: I've hit the limits trying to do a few 32-bit multiplications before 17:21:28 GregorR-L: God, some people are idiots. 17:21:30 ais523: Jesus. 17:21:33 but then, a one-cycle multiplier takes masses of circuitry 17:21:38 ais523: What's the minimum price for a _decent_ FPGA? 17:21:43 GregorR-L: What softwar was this? 17:21:51 which is why in all practical CPUs, multipliers take multiple cycles 17:21:52 ehird: Couple hundred, I'd imagine. 17:21:56 *software 17:22:01 ehird: "Flower". I don't even know what it does, I just responded to him calling that an "Open Source" license :P 17:22:01 a truly fast multiplier is insanely hard to make 17:22:03 pikhq: No— $150 is the bare bottom price. 17:22:08 $200 is for one up. 17:22:09 yet that's what VHDL/Verilog end up implementing if you write * 17:22:13 Then it gets to $250. 17:22:14 for multiply 17:22:16 Not approaching decentness. 17:22:17 and don't clarify 17:22:24 ais523: Heh. 17:22:35 GregorR-L: care to be less vague so I can google? 17:22:48 ehird: I don't know if I can be :P 17:22:50 FPGA turns what you thought you knew about computing upside-down 17:22:57 ehird: It was called Flower, and it was on the d.announce newsgroup. 17:23:02 GregorR-L: Ah, OK. 17:23:23 GregorR-L: "flowerd"? Dec 2007? 17:23:26 HTML thing. 17:23:32 No posts by you though 17:24:05 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/announce/Flower_opened_8869.html // here 'tis 17:24:27 LICENSE: use without restrictions at your own risk and responsibility unless 17:24:27 this use is resulting (directly or indirectly) harm to any sentient being 17:24:28 ok, ww. 17:24:31 wow 17:24:40 i want to punch that guy for being such a retard 17:25:37 [[If you think this is going to be the case, don't give it to your friend. As 17:25:37 simple as that ;)]] 17:25:44 Amazing, no? 17:25:48 GregorR-L: Be kind — you know how we can see to the past just as events not happening? 17:25:52 He, obviously, is not blind to the future. 17:26:00 A modern marvel. 17:26:26 Seems like someone missed the point of licenses here. :\ 17:26:27 (Apart from looking uber cool in a source file, that is.) 17:26:28 Errrrrrrrrrrrrr, what> 17:27:02 From my point of view it is already dead. I posted it just because it have some 17:27:02 good stuff in there that may be useful to someone. About you flies question - 17:27:04 yes, I am pretty sure flies are sentient beings, but if there are few lines of 17:27:06 my code on the page and few lines of your code then which code is the reason? 17:27:08 Deep. 17:27:10 hmm... no wait 17:27:17 this license is unusable after all 17:27:29 it requires you to redistribute the code before you can do anything, including redistributing the code 17:27:32 ais523: can you just ask him for a bread and butter license? 17:27:45 nah, I feel he rather didn't want to give up source as it was 17:27:49 he feels it isn't in a releasable state yet 17:27:53 i wouldn't care if not for your ultra-paranoid legalistic attitude :) 17:28:19 I might try running some of the .exe files that were left in the debug directory, though 17:28:25 [[I see no lawyers in the whole thing. Looking at my English dictionary I 17:28:25 understand the word "license" as "the author requests that ..."]] 17:28:28 as they're based on GPLed source, they must be GPL themselves 17:28:28 Stupidity, meet world. 17:28:31 World, meet stupidity. 17:28:41 ais523: are you sure that holds? 17:29:04 ehird: no, the other possibility is that they're illegal derivatives in the first place 17:29:26 although generally speaking, output executables don't inherit copyright from the compiler that made them 17:30:17 GregorR-L: I especially love how that license probably prevents anything that contributes to global warming executing it. 17:30:34 pikhq: Which is everything. 17:30:37 So, the only computer it could really run on operates on free energy. ... In SPACE! 17:30:52 pikhq: ... You just figured out what fortune cookies REALLY need. 17:30:53 Not "in bed". 17:30:56 "in SPACE!" 17:31:00 ehird: :D 17:31:09 "You will read a fortune cookie. ...in SPACE!" 17:31:56 actually, wait 17:32:01 pikhq: GregorR-L: it's not an EULA 17:32:04 it doesn't restrict usage 17:32:06 just redistribution 17:32:21 so you can use it, just not distribute it to someone who will run it on a global warming computer 17:32:43 the licence here thinks it's an EULA 17:32:45 ais523: what do verilog/vhdl generate when you do *? 17:32:48 Windows mentality, I imagine 17:32:52 *license 17:32:59 ehird: circuitry capable of doing a multiplication in one clock cycle 17:33:00 ais523: that may void a lot of it 17:33:07 ais523: i mean, what dose it actually generate 17:33:19 ehird: there are standard circuits for one-cycle multiplications 17:33:23 but they're massively large 17:33:24 *does 17:33:31 ais523: surely a gigantic circuit will take >1 cycle 17:33:33 ? 17:33:33 O(n^2) in the order of the number of bits in the number 17:33:44 ehird: no, you can implement anything in one cycle, apart from delays 17:33:44 ais523: icarus verilog, verilog behavioral simulator, veriwell verilog simulator 17:33:45 which is best :P 17:33:51 but the cycles often have to be rather slow 17:34:04 also, I use GHDL as a simulator 17:34:13 that's not verilog :P 17:34:16 good point 17:34:18 Yes, VeriWell *is* the same 17:34:19 simulator that was sold by Wellspring Solutions in the mid-1990 and was included 17:34:20 with the Thomas and Moorby book 17:34:21 I've never heard of any of those simulators 17:34:22 that seems promising 17:34:33 if it was sold and came with a book it's probably okay. 17:34:38 hopefully. 17:34:55 verilog behavioral simulator's homepage is 404'd 17:35:03 http://www.icarus.com/eda/verilog/ 17:35:10 so it's icarus vs veriwell. 17:35:21 icarus use git 17:35:26 so I guess it's actively developde 17:35:28 *developed 17:35:59 ais523: how often do the simulators mismatch the hardware? 17:36:19 only when you're driving the hardware near or beyond tolerances 17:36:39 ais523: can you literally make an fpga halt and catch fire? :-) 17:36:48 depends on what it's connected to 17:37:02 ais523: nothing special 17:37:04 they won't stand being short-circuited for any length of time, really 17:37:09 that makes them catch fire 17:37:14 and they're really static-sensitive too 17:37:16 ais523: with just code 17:37:20 it's worth buying a wristband 17:37:32 with just code 17:37:33 ehird: it depends on whether what's an input and what's an output are configurable in code 17:37:42 ais523: without I/O :p 17:37:43 which probably depends on the model 17:37:46 ehird: no, obviously 17:37:53 I/O is how you get them to catch fire 17:37:59 by changing what should be an input into an output 17:38:02 and causing a contradiction 17:38:08 ais523: not really 17:38:11 simple chip flaws could do it 17:38:34 they wouldn't pass testing 17:38:54 and given the typical target market for FPGAs, a company that routinely put out FPGAs that didn't pass testing wouldn't stay in the market long 17:39:00 ais523: so every possible combination of code is testing? 17:39:04 *tested 17:39:10 even extremely pathological examples? 17:39:11 every path within the FPGA, quite often 17:39:21 that's different from testing every possible program 17:39:24 but can be done quite quickly 17:40:01 module main; 17:40:01 initial 17:40:03 begin 17:40:05 $display("Hello world!"); 17:40:07 $finish; 17:40:09 end 17:40:11 endmodule 17:40:13 ais523: I assume $display is a debug thing? 17:40:19 $finnish; 17:40:26 ehird: almost certailny 17:40:34 the VHDL hello world also uses debug output 17:40:42 note that debug I/O is very important in simulators 17:40:48 it's been known for people to reimplement TCL in VHDL 17:40:55 ais523: what would $finish do? 17:40:56 and use it to drive test I/O 17:40:59 s/TCL/Tcl/ 17:41:04 also, tcl seems very popular among chip people 17:41:07 ehird: it prevents an infinite loop there 17:41:09 pikhq: Tool Command Language; QED. 17:41:10 ais523: ah. 17:41:26 basically, in a behavioral language 17:41:34 ehird: It's still spelled as Tcl. 17:41:39 each block (which could be one statement, or a whole process like that) runs whenever any of its inputs changes 17:41:45 or repeatedly forever if it has no inputs 17:41:51 * pikhq knows Tcl. 17:42:01 in a VHDL hello world, you put the equivalent of sleep forever at the end of the main process 17:42:04 pikhq: My name is I#$J(@*$&*(&(*~&89&W*)(D*fuCCCCCCCCCK 17:42:08 in order for the simulation to actually end 17:42:10 ais523: Reimplement Tcl in VHDL? Doesn't surprise me; Tcl is rather easy to implement. 17:42:14 When capitalised, it is @*#$((((((((((((OOK 17:42:21 Please respect these conventions 17:42:51 Someone made a rather complete implementation in C in about 500 lines of code... 17:43:16 Including hand-written parser. 17:43:35 We know 17:43:57 Þou knoweſt? 17:49:07 * ehird adds verilog support to editor, figuratively rubs hands 17:49:16 It's hardware time! 17:49:29 * ehird puts on appropriate ambience - http://dqn.dqn.lol.googlepages.com/GJS_Jay_Sussman_Feat._JSB_Sebastian_.mp3 17:49:52 lol.googlepages.com? 17:49:57 EVAL APPLY CAR CUDDER 17:50:01 ais523: dqn.dqn.lol.googlepages.com 17:50:06 also, did you just get a free Verilog simulator? 17:50:07 ais523: dots are valid in google account names 17:50:11 ais523: yes 17:50:11 ah, aha 17:50:12 open source, too 17:50:18 sounds good 17:50:21 i could have chosen from two others, but I chose this one. 17:50:26 also, it's actively developed and seems good. 17:50:33 Verilog pwns VHDL :P 17:50:44 VHDL makes it harder to make an error 17:50:51 whereas Verilog just silently corrects your code 17:51:03 it's as lax with variables as Visual Basic without Option Explicit is 17:51:09 Meh 17:51:14 *signals 17:51:23 signal = behavioural concept of a variable 17:51:34 variable (which also exists) = traditional imperative concept of a variable 17:51:47 wut 17:52:34 signals are like variables, except assigning to them is delayed-action 17:52:51 * ehird wonders what vpi is 17:53:08 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-06] % iverilog hello.v -o hello 17:53:08 -o: No such file or directory 17:53:10 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-06] % iverilog -o hello hello.v 17:53:12 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-06] % 17:53:14 *sigh* temperamental software. 17:53:22 [ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-06] % ./hello 17:53:22 Hello, world! 17:53:24 Hooray. 17:53:35 ais523: wow, hello's only 249 bytes 17:53:41 oh 17:53:46 it's a text file 17:53:51 [[#! /opt/local/bin/vvp 17:53:51 :vpi_time_precision + 0; 17:53:53 :vpi_module "system"; 17:53:55 S_0x200ce0 .scope module, "main" "main"; 17:53:57 .timescale 0; 17:53:59 .scope S_0x200ce0; 17:54:01 T_0 ; 17:54:03 %vpi_call "$display", "Hello, world!"; 17:54:05 %vpi_call "$finish"; 17:54:07 %end; 17:54:09 .thread T_0;]] 17:54:11 lol 17:54:13 hmm bit of a flood 17:54:15 sorry. 17:54:16 that's not in a format I know 17:54:33 ais523: it's icarus-specific, I assume 17:54:36 bytecode, of sorts. 17:54:39 yes 17:54:57 runs in 0.006s 17:55:00 so pretty good so far 17:55:13 (that's how fast a C hello world runs on my system) 17:57:11 Okay, now to learn Verilog. 17:57:15 *INSTANT DEMOTIVATOR* 17:57:38 hello world really doesn't explain how behavioural langs work 17:57:47 especially as you have to use debug commands to manage it 17:58:09 (in VHDL, text output isn't even in core, you have to load debug I/O libraries to be able to do a hello world) 17:58:27 yeah 18:00:44 ais523: There should be a hardware tarpit. 18:00:55 It'd be very relaxing. 18:01:06 ...where did I get that idea from? 18:01:07 oh, I'm tired 18:01:15 signal, nand, when 18:01:28 ais523: more pure. 18:02:34 ais523: I'ma try write a thingy that just flips a bit 4eva and eva. 18:03:01 always @ (posedge reset or posedge clock) 18:03:03 it's a one-liner in VHDL (plus about 10 lines boilerplate that everything needs) 18:03:11 it occurs to me I don't understand that. 18:03:19 the Verilog version is slightly more complicated 18:03:29 but basically, a process has rules stating when it runs 18:03:42 ais523: i just want the simplest way to say "as fast as possible:" 18:03:43 and that's saying that it runs unconditionally at the positive edge of the clock 18:03:45 or when reset 18:03:52 and there isn't one 18:04:03 that means "once per clock cycle", which is a practical as fast as possible 18:04:15 because if you start messing around with negative edges or quad data rate, synthesizers hate you 18:04:24 ais523: i just don't like not understanding things 18:04:25 and produce really bad circuitry, or just barf with an error 18:04:26 also, haha 18:04:38 ais523: it occurs to me that really bad circuitry could be an artform 18:04:55 ais523: btw fpga actually has nothing to do with circuitry right? it's just a sort of lower level cpu running your "cpu interpreter" 18:05:06 ais523: anyway, so I need an input clock;? 18:05:08 it's pretty close to the hardware 18:05:11 but how do I procure one of them to use it 18:05:12 and yes, you'll need a clock input 18:05:21 and I don't know how to make a test clock in VHDL 18:05:27 in Verilog, it would be clock <= not clock after 10 ns; 18:05:39 wait, VHDL and Verilog are the wrong way round there 18:05:51 :P 18:06:42 you can choose other time periods than 10ns, but 10ns is a typical value that you can normally achieve in practice 18:06:56 also, in hardware, you're most likely getting the clock signal from an input to the hardware itself 18:07:06 rather than generating it internally, which synthesizers can't do 18:07:16 you can use after in simulation, but synthesizers ignore it 18:07:28 the problem with VHDL/Verilog is that they're really two langs each 18:07:37 the simulation lang, where you can use all the features 18:07:45 and the synthesis lang, where you can only use a small subset 18:07:48 the skill's in writing polyglots 18:08:28 yeah 18:09:52 bonus points if the synthesis and simulation versions actually do the same thing 18:10:06 -!- Corun has joined. 18:10:11 so your question about "does synthesis work the same way as simulation?"? yes, but only if you keep to the common subset 18:10:22 ais523: here's my hardware tarpit: 18:10:43 ais523: "REGISTER ← EXPR / NANOSECONDS". 18:10:44 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:10:51 EXPR has nand, xor, and, or, and all that stuff. 18:10:57 Flip-flopper: 18:11:03 actually 18:11:16 ehird: congratulations, you just invented VHDL's assignment statement 18:11:18 "(N) REGISTER ← EXPR / NANOSECONDS" 18:11:19 -!- Corun has joined. 18:11:20 signal <= expression after time; 18:11:24 lower Ns happen before later Ns 18:11:27 ais523: I based it upon that 18:11:32 and no, there is no "happen before" in hardware 18:11:39 there is no ordering to commands in a Verilog/VHDL program 18:11:44 ais523: wow. okay then. 18:11:45 No (N) then. 18:11:48 apart from inside processes, you can anagram a program and it still works correctly 18:11:56 ais523: actually, instead of nanoseconds, let's measure in cycles 18:12:07 "REGISTER ← EXPR / CYCLES" 18:12:11 an assignment runs when the expression that's being assigned changes value 18:12:14 plus a constant amount of time 18:12:14 here's my flipflopper ("politician"): 18:12:22 platform ← 0 / 0 18:12:27 platform ← not platform / 1 18:12:38 I think that should go 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, ... 18:12:48 ok, another hint: you can't, in practice, plausibly initialize variables 18:12:52 or do things relative to time 0 18:13:00 because everything starts out randomized at power-up 18:13:08 the langs will let you initialize, but it won't synthesize 18:13:13 this is why reset inputs are very common 18:13:13 ais523: ah. the verilog example uses a reset input for that 18:13:33 ais523: OK, I'll add inputs. Can I keep inputs the same as registers? I bet I can. 18:13:47 yes, they're much the same 18:13:58 incidentally, what you're calling "register" = "signal" in VHDL, "wire" in Verilog 18:14:14 ais523: I'm just basing it on Verilog's "reg" from one example ;-) 18:14:18 -!- olsner has joined. 18:14:28 OK, let's say there is one built-in register: CLOCK. 18:14:31 well, it's saying that that wire is being used for a register 18:14:35 here's my politician: 18:14:46 to be precise: register = wire with a delay on so it can be used to store data 18:15:12 { |reset| platform ← 0 / reset; platform ← not platform / CLOCK step } 18:15:14 I suppose. 18:15:18 This is getting annoyingly complex ;0 18:15:19 ;) 18:16:08 ehird: Oooh! Oooh! Do it in Wireworld! 18:16:09 ais523: what's the actual tarpit? 18:16:15 nand plus what? 18:16:24 signals/wires/registers whatever 18:16:31 and a positive fixed after requirement 18:16:41 although, that's a simulation tarpit 18:16:55 ais523: i'd prefer something that can be synthesized too 18:17:01 annoyingly, the code makes perfect sense in synthesizers but they can't synthesize it anyway 18:17:05 because they all have rubbish programming 18:17:14 it's not enough to simply use something as a clock 18:17:22 you have to ram it down the interp's throat that it's a clock 18:17:27 by using special "this is a clock" syntax 18:17:35 which I think is just pattern-matched 18:17:48 in VHDL, 4 syntaxes work, none of the infinity equivalent syntaxes do though 18:17:51 ais523: let us assume a non-retarded synthesizer; as long as it can be done with them, that's ok. 18:18:02 there are no non-retarded synthesizers, in that sense 18:18:14 ais523: no, I mean, as in 18:18:17 they wrote the limitations of synthesizers into the standard, rather than actually writing a decent synthesizer 18:18:28 ais523: the tarpit→VHDL or whatever compiler, can add the "THIS IS A CLOCK YOU MORON" stuff itself 18:18:41 yes 18:18:53 ais523: so we don't have to worry about that 18:18:59 just what synthesizers simply won't accept 18:19:14 actually, I suspect writing a VHDL->VHDL compiler may make my fortune 18:19:23 compiling from sane VHDL into what synthesizers accept :) 18:19:27 haha 18:19:28 (and yes, I just used a smiley) 18:19:54 that is one piece of software i will be delighted to spread about the intertubes (← evil piracy destroying the world) 18:20:03 ais523: isn't sane vhdl an oxymoron? 18:20:11 VHDL is AnMaster-sane 18:20:15 it's sort of so sane it's insane 18:20:17 that's not sane. 18:20:32 it was commisioned by the US armed forces, I think 18:20:39 with instructions to make it resemble ADA as much as possible 18:20:45 which explains a lot 18:20:51 haha 18:21:03 once you've seen VHDL, you realise that in fact it is the language that INTERCAL parodies 18:25:17 ais523: so what would a complete definition of an absolute minimum hardware tarpit be? 18:25:41 I'm not in the mood to do one in full, really 18:25:48 especially as I'm trying to do other things atm 18:25:54 O_O 18:25:54 and am also tired due to crazy sleep patterns 18:26:02 (I've been up for over 24 hours in a row, /again/) 18:26:56 ais523: eh, 'snothin' 18:26:58 I'm pushing on 30 18:27:10 GregorR-L: O_O? 18:27:59 I like Perceptively Chilly Sonata more every time I play it :P 18:28:03 Which is more than a bit scary :P 18:29:02 GregorR-L: Give it REAL PERCUSSIVE DEMOLISHMENT POWER 18:29:09 But I like that song too. 18:29:15 Too much lazy slash I have no idea how. 18:29:18 ais523: you should listen to it, it'd give you a heart attack. 18:29:34 ehird: you want me to have a heart attack? 18:29:40 ais523: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Perceptively+Chilly+Sonata 18:29:42 ais523: well, no, but the experience would be worth it 18:30:03 ais523: a masterpiece composed by a computer!! 18:30:08 Nothing Like It! 18:30:19 See the Masterpiece of the Bending Flow - generated by an ARTIFICIAL MIND(TM)! 18:32:05 GregorR-L: it really is good, but it needs rests 18:32:08 it's just too hectic 18:32:24 ehird: Yeahyeahyeah, gimme a break still :P 18:32:29 <_< 18:32:30 >_> 18:32:34 ehird: Also, feel free to poke around at the code yourself ;) 18:32:40 GregorR-L: Open sores? 18:32:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:32:53 ehird: Naturalismo, who do you think you're talking to? 18:33:00 http://codu.org/projects/masterpiecemachine/ 18:33:05 kay. 18:33:23 GregorR-L: License? Also, that's not the auto-generator thing. 18:34:05 MIT, the auto-generator is in lib/autocomposer and autocompose 18:34:13 GregorR-L: Language? 18:34:24 PHP :( 18:34:29 GregorR-L: Srybutnothx. 18:34:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:34:46 * ehird ponders genetically evolving an iterated rock/paper/scissors warrior 18:37:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:37:24 well, at least I'm not being eaten by sharks 18:37:36 hm? 18:37:52 you wouldn't even have thought that trying to play a MIDI file could crash X 18:38:02 link again 18:38:04 ? 18:38:07 I'll do it a different way this time 18:38:42 ais523: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Perceptively+Chilly+Sonata 18:38:49 ais523: impressive, though; it shows that the midi has true power. 18:38:53 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving..."). 18:38:55 also, you might need to give it a few listens 18:39:09 it is a bit of an acquired ... haunting. 18:39:25 how autogenerated is it? 18:40:03 ais523: neural networky thingy, each track independently composed following only a few basic rules on tempo etc 18:40:19 he just set up his collaborative masterpiece engine to run on his genetic algorithm track generator 18:40:22 er 18:40:23 it's pretty auto-repetitive 18:40:24 neural network 18:40:24 not GA 18:40:27 *almost-repetitive 18:40:34 ais523: it's fractal! 18:40:39 it has twists, though 18:40:41 ah, that would explain it 18:40:48 ais523: no 18:40:52 I just made the fractalness up :P 18:41:45 that would explain it anyway; just because it's an incorrect explanation doesn't prevent it being an adequate explanation 18:41:49 ehird: Wow, you sure think that this autocomposer is complex :P 18:41:58 GregorR-L: do I? 18:42:01 It is in fact neither a neural network nor a genetic algorithm :P 18:42:26 GregorR-L: thought you said it was a NN 18:42:29 GregorR-L: what is it? rand()? 18:42:37 It's a simple randomized algorithm involving determining the "tension" of every note and trying to make the tension rise and fall. 18:42:56 wow, that thing is /long/ 18:42:57 GregorR-L: ah, that's why it goes in thumps 18:43:03 ais523: err, it's just 3-4 minutes 18:43:11 ais523: that's not particularly long for a piece of music 18:43:12 ais523: Want a 35 minute one? I can do that. 18:43:16 no thanks 18:43:19 play it to ehird instead 18:43:21 ehird: It is when it's boring :P 18:43:24 ais523: how is that long? 18:43:25 I think I prefer hworld.mid 18:43:47 harumph 18:45:13 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Debonairly+Boorish+Fugue // 35 minutes :P 18:45:26 also, it's 304 seconds long 18:45:28 thus over 5 minutes 18:45:36 ais523: 5:00 18:45:47 GregorR-L: make a 300bpm one 18:45:51 5:04 according to Timidity 18:45:54 it'll be like DragonForce except EVEN WORSE. 18:46:04 ehird: Wait, I'm listening to this one, it's pretty good so far :P 18:46:11 'Tis. 18:46:24 ais523: Debonairly is relaxing and musical, try it. 18:47:04 I think the basic algorithm is sound, I just need something to make it think globally. 18:47:55 GregorR-L: but it leads to thumps 18:47:59 attack, reduce, attack, reduce 18:48:01 that's monotonic 18:48:08 Hence "think globally" 18:48:26 GregorR-L: but that's the basic algorithm! 18:48:48 ehird: I wouldn't call it relaxing 18:48:53 although I like the choice of instruments 18:49:07 what I should do, is port my BF-to-Fugue code to something sane 18:49:11 Perceptive Chilly Sonata is certainly better than the random one it generated for me 18:49:13 and then run Lost Kingdoms through it 18:49:13 The basic algorithm thinks locally. I mean globally as in "in this section I'm going to crescendo, then here I'm going to steadily increase pitch, etc" 18:49:16 "The model fails to generate the following obvious real-world solution: A, B, and C should all move in together and live in joyous tripartite depravity, and X should jump off a bridge." 18:49:19 GregorR-L: ah 18:49:20 or the gcc-bf hello world 18:49:58 BF programs convert to music well, because different parts of the code do different things 18:50:10 so have different programming-textures, which convert to different musical themes 18:50:38 music is ghay. 18:51:32 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 18:57:29 I wish my friend Eric knew how to code. 18:57:34 People who don't know how to code are weird. 18:57:47 GregorR-L: I'm ten minutes into the Fugue. 18:57:49 It's lovely. 18:57:54 Also, everyone should know how to code :P 18:57:57 Yeah, I'm still listening to it :P 18:58:12 There are no /bad/ sections, a few really /good/ sections, it's just very background music. 18:58:15 GregorR-L: Wow, around 10:10 on it has some nice blips. 18:58:18 I'm 1 minute in, don't spoil it for me! 18:58:23 noooo 18:58:28 lol 18:58:31 Asztal: Protip: It's basically the same all the way through. 18:58:32 -!- Slereah has set topic: Have you read your SICP today? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:58:37 ehird: X-D 18:58:41 ... or at least, for 11 minutes; it may turn into heavy death metal later on. 18:58:56 GregorR-L: Make that 300bpm, 7 minute, electric guitar monstrosity! 18:59:03 With percussion, naturally. 18:59:05 it reminds me of one of the DOOM 2 songs because of the instruments 18:59:13 (and some of the melodies) 18:59:28 Asztal: most cheerful doom song evar. 18:59:48 there's one that starts off as a twisted children's song 19:00:07 ehird: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Egg+Stream+Autocompose 19:00:25 Asztal, Nasty Diablo, or is that something else? 19:00:29 It'll still be 25 minutes before I can listen to it though :P 19:00:41 GregorR-L: Lacks electric guitar; percussion. 19:00:50 Kind of spooky though. 19:00:53 :P 19:01:14 Holy fuck it's only 19:00 19:01:53 EVAL IS THE FUNCTION OF HOLY WORSHIP 19:07:26 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 19:07:44 GregorR-L: it's got a sorta guitar solo going on 19:07:48 at 18:30 on 19:08:57 Not there yet. 19:09:03 -!- Hiato has joined. 19:12:43 Ohh, for Egg Stream Masterpiece I forgot to specify a key signature, so they all use random (different) ones :P 19:13:14 GregorR-L: *Autocompose 19:13:28 GregorR-L: Anyway, do the 300bpm, 7 minute electric guitar / percussiony, or I shall eat your soul. 19:13:48 Aside from the fact that I have no percussion support, I didn't make it so you can specify an instrument P 19:13:50 *:P 19:14:03 GregorR-L: Try at random! 19:14:22 Also I'm at work X-P 19:14:47 >_> 19:14:57 ehird: Now, write eval using naught but lambda. 19:15:13 pikhq: LC self-interpreters exist. 19:15:23 A full Lisp eval. 19:15:37 :P 19:15:59 -!- inurinternet has joined. 19:16:08 pikhq: No. 19:16:27 Bah. 19:17:05 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Egg+Stream+Autocompose Remade. Still no "real" percussion, but wood blocks, and this one is fekking sweet :P 19:17:06 the great thing about Egg Stream Autocompose is that you can skip forward 5 minutes and there won't be any discontinuity 19:17:25 GregorR-L: don't overwrite ;_; 19:17:31 TOO LATE HA HA 19:19:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:19:46 i want a symbolics lisp machine. 19:19:51 i would use my 8 megawords of memory. 19:20:04 and nine gigabyte SCSI disk capability. 19:20:09 to store my CD-ROM collection. 19:20:21 and run a jukebox on the 19" monochrome crt 19:20:22 :-P 19:23:21 pikhq: BTW, this is what the top-of-the-line symbolics machine looks like: http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/symbolics_xl1200_lisp_machine.jpg 19:23:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:23:34 pikhq: Yes, the computer is inside that "desk" - or should I say "case". 19:24:33 Heck, it's a combined radiator, computer case, and desk. 19:24:37 And noisemaker. 19:24:41 What more could you POSSIBLY want? 19:25:55 your butt 19:27:04 ehird: A hookup to central air. 19:29:09 hmm, idea 19:29:32 pikhq: Or, one of these: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/3600-front.jpg; a big little machine - 31kg! (70 pounds). 4Mword memory (18MB), 760MB "ESDI" disk, 17" screen. Apparently ESDI's a very very old predescessor to SCSI. 19:29:51 pikhq: That certainly has a larger nostalgia factor; it would quite likely not be too fun to work on, though. 19:29:52 * ais523 agrees to the following contract with myndzi, binding under the rules of Agora: "Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other to cause em to register. This contract terminates after 4 hours." 19:29:59 * ais523 agrees to the following contract with myndzi\, binding under the rules of Agora: "Any party to this contract can act on behalf of any other to cause em to register. This contract terminates after 4 hours." 19:30:05 grr, he changed nick 19:30:06 LOLFAIL 19:30:13 * ehird sexes myndzi\ 19:30:15 it would be an interesting test, though 19:30:15 \o/ 19:30:19 no script, it seems. 19:30:21 yep 19:30:45 pikhq: Also, the nostalgia costs $675; the XL1200 $3,500. 19:31:00 So if I was gonna get an #esoteric LM it'd have to be a 36xx :P 19:31:07 Donations welcome! 19:31:21 ehird: I'll try later when the script's back up 19:31:40 I'm pretty sure that R101, at least, would block it, though 19:32:11 ehird: Definitely, definitely needs to be used in lieu of a heater. 19:32:50 pikhq: it's so big and foreboding; we'd get a http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/IO/DSC_2077-small.jpg keyboard! 19:33:02 or http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/IO/keyboard-9647.jpg; depending on if they sell the new kbs w/ the old models 19:33:05 that font looks like optima 19:33:14 on the control/etc labels 19:33:41 ais523: can you get FPGAs that are large arrays of really crappy processors? 19:33:55 probably not, that wouldn't be useful 19:33:59 and wouldn't be an FPGA by definition 19:34:03 ais523: like Connection Machines; a bunch of processors doing measly work (CM CPUs operated on one bit(!) at a time), operating in parallel 19:34:20 ais523: did you know that feynman worked on the Connection Machines? 19:34:29 65,536 CPUs communicating in the original version 19:34:31 pretty damn impressive 19:35:53 ais523: where should I look if I want to build such a system? but ofc at a lower scale 19:35:53 an fpgas is an array of really crappy processors 19:35:59 say, 128 x shit 19:36:03 ehird: I don't know 19:36:04 bsmntbombdood: well, yes. technically. 19:36:11 ais523: d'aww. 19:36:12 bsmntbombdood: a 4-bit lookup table, followed by 1 bit of RAM? 19:36:21 that misses most of the requirements to be a processor, I think 19:36:21 ais523: yeah 19:36:26 on the plus side, you get loads of them 19:36:32 http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-traffic-light-fail.jpg 19:37:12 Sgeo: Do not link to failblog, that despicable site of immaturity, failing to get the joke and 12-year-old esque shoutings of "FAILLLLLLL!!!!". Or I will wreck my vengeance upon you. 19:37:16 :| 19:37:19 i know some fpgas have a general prupose cpu built in 19:37:25 bsmntbombdood: yeah, that's lame 19:37:28 ehird, I didn't link to the comments 19:37:39 ehird: also, http://www.tilera.com/products/processors.php 19:38:11 bsmntbombdood: yeah i know, that's not the same. 64 processors is measly; we're talking about thousands here. and also, those individual processors will NOT be all that simple 19:38:26 i'll wager, for instance, that they're a far cry from the "one bit at a time running simple instruction set" of the CMs 19:38:43 what's the point? 19:39:01 bsmntbombdood: the point is that it's a novel computational model, actually speeds up some things massively 19:39:03 and is just damn cool 19:39:09 http://www.longnow.org/views/essays/articles/ArtFeynman.php 19:39:13 i want a tile64 19:39:18 feynman worked out that you could do ... i forget; some quantum mechanics calculation 19:39:22 in a day with these 19:39:27 that would take 2 years on a regular machine 19:39:32 (of similar raw computational caliber) 19:39:33 put that shit on a pcie card 19:40:30 i want to have a job designing crazy supercomputer architectures 19:40:38 i just love hundreds and hundreds of interconnected nodes 19:41:42 latency 19:42:14 bsmntbombdood: read the article 19:42:47 also, you'd be smarter if you _decreased_ paralellism 19:43:04 what? 19:43:09 parallelism is awesome, you foo. 19:43:35 no, parellelism is necessary 19:43:45 bsmntbombdood: read the article, you foo. 19:43:49 no 19:44:00 your loss 19:45:12 GregorR-L: egg stream autocompose #2 is lovely 19:45:21 Yes :P 20:02:45 someone make a pun including the word "eggstreamly" 20:03:06 no 20:04:12 -!- tetha has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:04:21 -!- tetha has joined. 20:10:49 * Sgeo can't believe he missed an FS story 20:14:35 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:14:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:16:35 Oh, I skipped it because of confusing-link-ness I think 20:21:49 GregorR-L: make more 20:22:11 ehird: I'm in the middle of pretending to do work while adding tendencies. 20:22:17 GregorR-L: good on you! 20:22:21 you are a true patriot. 20:22:23 netriot. 20:26:49 The tendencies seem to push it towards slowness more often than they ought to. 20:29:08 http://filebin.ca/hgrmao/gen.mid // first tests with tendencies 20:29:10 "And computers are big, too. You can buy a 1000MHz machine with 2 gigabytes of RAM and an 1000Mbit/sec Ethernet card for $1200 or so." 20:29:28 GregorR-L: god that's slow 20:29:35 GregorR-L: but interesting 20:29:42 After a bit it speeds up, but it still has a tendency to like long lulls >_> 20:29:48 And I'm not sure why at this point. 20:30:53 ("slow" is one of its tendencies, it just seems to be ... more powerful.) 20:31:44 [ehird:~] % nginx --help 20:31:44 2009/06/11 20:30:19 [emerg] 3086#0: invalid option: "--help" 20:31:45 [ehird:~] % nginx -h 20:31:47 2009/06/11 20:31:37 [emerg] 3176#0: invalid option: "-h" 20:31:49 [ehird:~] % man nginx 20:31:51 No manual entry for nginx 20:31:53 Discoverability! 20:31:58 lawl 20:38:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:48:55 ehird: Try -? and lack of parameters 20:49:11 just nginx would start the daemon 20:50:20 Also -help 20:52:21 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 20:53:29 -!- tombom has joined. 20:56:37 11/06/2009 20:55:20 TextMate[97936] This application is trying to draw a very large combo box, 145 points tall. Vertically resizable combo boxes are not supported, but it happens that 10.4 and previous drew something that looked kind of sort of okay. The art in 10.5 does not break up in a way that supports that drawing. To avoid breaking existing apps, NSComboBox in 10.5 will use the 10.4 art for large combo boxes, but it won't exactly match the rest 20:56:39 of the system. This application should be revised to stop using large combo boxes. This warning will appear once per app launch. 20:56:46 oh, Apple, such a homely log message 20:58:59 Deewiant: -? and -h work, even though they didn't a second ago 20:59:08 before i reinstalled after syncing the portfiles 20:59:09 :DDD 20:59:11 :P 20:59:13 well -h didn't 20:59:15 i didn't test -? 21:03:21 This is why I use (/|--?)(h(e?lp)?|\?) :-P 21:04:48 http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Onerously+Uptight+Toccata // weird one 21:06:15 They get more like music every time. 21:06:36 (This one employs the tendencies system) 21:07:04 GregorR-L: How do I make my own auto track? 21:07:13 ah i see 21:07:19 It's one click :P 21:08:51 GregorR-L: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Onerous+Cake-Eating+Festival+Disallowment+Barricade 21:08:53 I like it. 21:09:02 It has melody underneath the chaos of 20 tracks. 21:09:09 at 256bpm. 21:09:12 Hold on, I'm relistening to Onerously Uptight Toccata. 21:09:13 With a mandatory 10 measure rest. 21:09:13 lawl 21:09:18 And 100 measures. 21:09:22 GregorR-L: the time signature is 8/2 21:09:25 how does it interpret that? :P 21:09:27 The autocomposer ignores mandatory rests for the moment. 21:09:37 oh wow, this is really nice 21:09:39 It does handle time signatures, but only if the numerator is a power of 2. 21:09:43 the percussion really comes together 21:09:50 GregorR-L: well 8 is 21:09:56 GregorR-L: but 8/2 ain't no valid time signature 21:10:04 Yes it is. 21:10:09 It's just a weird one. 21:10:10 hmm 21:10:11 so it is 21:10:23 GregorR-L: btw this is the best autocomposed tune yet imo 21:10:26 it really flows 21:10:28 Anything where the denominator is a power of 2 is valid. 21:10:32 it's not even dissonant 21:10:56 god, it really flows well 21:11:01 GregorR-L: this is one of the best things i've heard recently 21:11:11 i'm not exaggerating in the slightest 21:11:33 WTF, how'd you get 20 tracks >_< 21:11:39 I disallowed >16, but apparently not well. 21:11:47 GregorR-L: Well, don't. 21:11:48 Because this is beautiful. 21:11:51 Oh wow. 21:11:54 You're only hearing 16. 21:11:54 It even ends properly. 21:11:58 Am I? 21:12:01 MIDI only supports 16. 21:12:02 GregorR-L: are you sure? 21:12:04 Ah. 21:12:05 Okay. 21:12:07 GregorR-L: Which 16 am I hearing? 21:12:13 The first 16. 21:12:17 GregorR-L: Feel free to chop off the unused ones in the database. 21:12:24 The completed work as-is is spectacular. 21:12:29 I have no database concern, just that it allowed them >_< 21:13:00 GregorR-L: listened to it yet? 21:13:00 Oh, and now I see why, too :P 21:13:04 Listening. 21:13:06 It's not bad :P 21:13:10 GregorR-L: it gets better 21:13:15 it really has parts to it, i swear 21:13:20 it has song structure! 21:13:25 Suuuuuuure :P 21:13:34 GregorR-L: around 0:18 the intro finishes 21:14:45 GregorR-L: You can't deny it's awesome. 21:15:06 You realize that the only person complemented by saying it's awesome is me, right? :P 21:15:10 *complimented 21:15:15 GregorR-L: Or the computer! 21:15:24 I'm just complimenting the piece, really. 21:15:34 It somehow totally hits a tiny bit of chaos with a whole lot of work. 21:17:25 Incidentally, part of the reason why it has a real ending is I mangled the algorithm to make the last measure always sound endish. 21:17:53 :D 21:18:01 GregorR-L: but it does do endy bits a little before that 21:18:13 Yeah, that's why I said "part" 21:18:17 :P 21:19:04 * pikhq finished reading that Connection Machine essay. 21:19:11 Man, Feynman is awesome. 21:21:25 GregorR-L: Why can't you enter any time signature? 21:21:44 ehird: It only knows how to choose note lengths by dividing a measure in half repeatedly. 21:21:52 So anything will "work", but e.g. 6/8 will be treated like 4/8 21:22:00 GregorR-L: What about 6/16? :P 21:22:08 4/16 21:22:51 Warning: SQLite3::exec() [sqlite3.exec]: database is locked in /var/www/masterpiecemachine/lib/newmasterpiece.php on line 125 21:22:51 Failed to add this Masterpiece to the database! 21:22:53 LAL :D 21:22:59 Bad timing am I 21:23:16 The autocomposer is slower nao. 21:23:36 GregorR-L: you should add an "autocompose all" button for lazy sods. 21:24:00 Sorry, I fekked something up so I'm poking around in the DB. 21:24:39 GregorR-L: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=Codu+Dot+Org+Slash+Masterpiecemachine+Slash+Questionmark+Newmp This is the song you hear while you are flown into the gates of hell. 21:26:00 Eh, so far not so great. 21:26:08 GregorR-L: Yeah, it's very bad :P 21:26:12 GregorR-L: I'm gonna try one in 1/1. 21:26:20 Oh, you're doing weird time signatures? :P 21:26:31 GregorR-L: That is one of my primary sources of fun, yus. 21:26:37 Ah X-P 21:26:44 Sorry, but the time signature and number of measures must be set to autocompose! 21:26:50 Oops. 21:26:54 GregorR-L: I tried to give it 1/1. 21:26:58 GregorR-L: It didn't enter into the db. 21:27:05 GregorR-L: Edit "On Freckled Petsnippers and Other Agglomerates" to be 1/1 plz? 21:27:10 Oh? That's weird. 21:27:19 * pikhq suggests 13/3 21:27:28 pikhq: 66/6 21:27:42 pikhq: played at 666bpm 21:27:53 1337/31337 21:28:07 pi/e 21:28:26 Fixt 21:28:34 e/{i*pi} 21:28:51 Wait, partially fixt :P 21:28:55 GregorR-L: It still won't— yeah. :P 21:29:26 pikhq: i wonder what imaginary time signatures would be like 21:29:28 Now fixt. 21:30:18 GregorR-L: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=On+Freckled+Petsnippers+and+Other+Agglomerates 21:30:21 Doesn't sound very 1/1. 21:32:02 GregorR-L: http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/getmidi.php?mpid=How+Conventional+Pop+Song+Tune+What does not live up to its name. 21:34:44 GregorR-L: you should make a meta version of the system which composes compositions 21:34:52 so you can do _real_ generated masterpieces - in the normal sense 21:35:13 In what sense? 21:35:25 Oh, as in the tracks agree? 21:35:27 GregorR-L: Right. 21:35:38 I /could/ :P 21:36:12 GregorR-L: whuzzyu favyu compozzyu buyzzit? 21:36:18 so i can make the direct antithesis 21:36:21 thus ruining your mind 21:36:22 FOREVER 21:36:44 ... whuzzyu ... "what is your"? 21:36:49 "Favorite"? 21:37:05 Compo...sition ... buyer? 21:37:15 GregorR-L: Buy, zz, it. 21:37:20 I fell asleep. 21:37:54 Probably Onerously Upright Toccata 21:40:08 GregorR-L: It'd be nice if we could tweak the uhh spectra. Tendencies? That's the word. 21:40:28 You can ... by editing the code X-P 21:40:38 ;.; 21:49:32 you know 21:49:36 heap sort is a really dumb algorithm 21:49:50 So is your face. 21:50:28 it doesn't cache at all 21:50:58 Y'know, heap sort is much better when you've already got a heap. 21:57:29 Y'know, sorting is much better when you can assume that sort is the identity function 22:01:55 ... 22:18:47 -!- Corun has joined. 22:20:58 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:22:22 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 22:30:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:04:34 -!- Corun_ has joined. 23:08:04 SCSI 23:08:06 made of pie 23:08:07 SCSI 23:08:08 —a poem 23:10:23 GregorR: can the genneys do multi harmony? 23:14:28 No.] 23:20:46 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:25:24 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 23:32:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:38:44 One is #quote, and one is my fan club. <-- damn whipper snapper got his _own_ _fan_ _club_?! 23:38:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:39:01 hi zzo38 23:39:50 hi zzo38 23:40:10 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:40:13 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 23:40:28 1/89! 23:40:41 that's a pretty small number 23:40:46 with the factorial and all 23:41:02 well, its an exclamation point, not a factorial mark 23:41:15 *whoosh* 23:41:33 interestingly, scheme can computer 89! instantly with perfect precision 23:41:52 well so can haskell 23:41:57 psygnisfive: so can anything 23:42:00 probably python too 23:42:04 that just requires a non-totally-shit bignum library 23:42:09 which every civilized language has 23:42:16 i dont know about that but 23:42:23 indeed, that much is obvious 23:43:04 psygnisfive: it can also compute 1000! instantly with "perfect precision". 23:43:06 and so on. 23:43:14 psygnisfive: also, scheme is a language, not an implementation 23:43:37 yes, i suppose 89! is not quite as big as i imagined :o 23:43:59 but scheme by the spec has perfectprecision on numbers, i think 23:44:00 anyways 23:44:01 im off! 23:44:08 to eat 23:44:08 psygnisfive: wait. 23:44:15 bye :D 23:44:18 * oerjan recalls that 1000000! or thereabouts got a bit much for lambdabot, unless we used binary splitup 23:44:19 Which esolang uses diagramatic tensor calculation? 23:44:31 or maybe it was 100000! 23:44:54 The TI-92 calculator can calculate some big factorial number 23:44:58 psygnisfive: 23:45:00 [ehird:~/Junk] % echo 'main = print (product $ enumFromTo 2 10000)' >f.hs 23:45:03 [ehird:~/Junk] % ghc -O2 f.hs -o f 23:45:16 psygnisfive: runs in 0.06s 23:45:17 zzo38: searching for "tensor" on esolang wiki gives no hits 23:45:21 psygnisfive: beat that :) 23:45:44 Someone (possibly me? Or possibly someone else) should invent esolang with diagrammatic tensor calculations 23:46:43 even i don't know what that is (the diagrammatic part), so i think you may be on your own :) 23:46:44 I sit in this way so that I don't bump the ball and sign on the side of the desk 23:47:34 Do you know what tensor multiplication is? If you don't, I will tell you. 23:47:34 Scheme has bignums in the standard, though (well, I guess they're sort-of optional, it's just that all the other Scheme implementations will probably not invite you to their parties if you don't do them); that's not something that's in all "civilized" languages. (Except for a very narrow definition of civilized.) 23:47:52 OK, zzo38pedia. 23:47:57 If you start with [1,-1] and repeatedly tensor square it you get the Morse-Thue sequence 23:48:12 ehird: also, what's wrong with [2..10000] ? 23:48:27 oerjan: i was just expanding "product . enumFromTo 1" 23:48:41 A tensor multiplication of a AxB and CxD matrices gives (AC)x(BD) size of the result matrix. 23:49:17 You multiply each entry in the matrix with all entries in the other matrix and put them inside each part where the matrix wads 23:49:33 zzo38: i know what a tensor multiplication is. it's the "diagrammatic" part i don't know, as i said 23:49:48 well, more or less, anyway 23:49:59 zzo38: oerjan is a published mathematician you know :D 23:50:41 A diagrammatic tensor multiplication, is you put various shapes with lines extending above and below, representing a vector or covector space. You do tensor multiplication horizontally and matrix multiplication vertically 23:51:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 23:52:26 For example, if a vector has 2 components, then a shape with 2 lines below and 3 lines above is a tensor representing a matrix with 4 columns and 8 rows 23:53:06 That's what a tensor diagram is. 23:53:22 btw matrix multiplication is just tensoring then taking the trace (diagonal sum) along a couple of the coordinates 23:53:26 iirc 23:53:48 B and C in the above case 23:54:23 hm that may not be quite the same kind of tensoring 23:54:43 Now do you know what a tensor diagram is? And do you know if you get the Morse-Thue sequence when starting with [1,-1] and repeatedly tensor squaring 23:55:20 1 by 2 matrix ---> 1 by 2^n matrix? sounds plausible 23:55:45 zzo38: it's thue-morse 23:55:59 ehird: my advisor always said Morse-Thue 23:56:05 weird 23:56:25 and he loved using it as an example 23:56:49 (it gives a nice dynamical system of the kind we investigated) 23:57:22 I have never heard thue-morse. I have always seen it called Morse-Thue 23:57:49 zzo38: wikipedia says thue-morse and makes no mention to morse-thue 23:57:54 http://filebin.ca/usbggh/UnhurriedlySkillfulToccata.mid // my first test of making the tendencies agree. 23:57:54 also, the esolang wiki always says TM 23:58:09 we just copied wikipedia, probably 23:58:10 zzo38: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Morse-ThueSequence.html redirects to thue-morse 23:58:16 so i'd say that's the "correct" one 23:58:19 oh 23:58:46 that might be slightly more "authoritative" 23:58:59 one book in the results said "morse-thue" but meh 23:59:01 thue-morse soudns nicer 23:59:03 GregorR: that sounds nice 23:59:07 GregorR: this could totally become something 23:59:27 I think if I add some ability for it to take certain bits and make them repeating themes ... possibilities. 23:59:31 Call it what you like. I just called it Morse-Thue because that is the only thing I have ever seen it being called. 23:59:32 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:59:48 GregorR: Then the meta-tendencies. :P