00:26:21 night 00:27:11 bye 01:16:09 -!- comex has changed nick to aaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 01:16:13 -!- aaaaaaaaaaaaaa has changed nick to aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 01:16:34 -!- aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa has changed nick to comex. 01:18:51 -!- zid has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:18:55 -!- zid has joined. 01:49:38 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:54:18 -!- Zuu has joined. 02:01:38 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:06:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:39:39 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:28:54 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:29:19 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:08:41 -!- immibis has joined. 04:19:10 -!- amca has joined. 04:29:47 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:45:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:47:34 -!- augur has joined. 05:31:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:00:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:16:55 -!- Figs has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:30:44 -!- Judofyr has joined. 08:31:04 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 08:32:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:40:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:19:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:24:45 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:29:12 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 09:31:48 -!- Associat0r has quit ("#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency"). 10:01:25 -!- immibis has quit ("There's nothing dirtier then a giant ball of oil"). 10:26:21 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat"). 11:22:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:36:26 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 12:06:20 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 12:41:34 -!- fungot has quit ("just a moment; testing"). 12:42:29 -!- fungot has joined. 12:48:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:56:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 13:31:00 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 13:44:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 13:44:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:44:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 14:41:39 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 14:41:49 Hi. 14:43:02 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:43:10 And now to test iPhone OS 3.0s copy and paste by linking to this semi-lame comic about Brainfuck that I found on reddit: http://dustland.thedailynathan.com/11 14:43:20 Yay, it worked. 14:43:34 *3.0's 14:45:38 Welp, bye. 14:45:43 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 15:00:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 15:27:21 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:28:57 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:47:19 -!- asiekierka has joined. 15:53:01 -!- amca has quit ("Farewell"). 15:55:23 -!- jix has joined. 16:25:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:38 -!- Hiato has joined. 16:36:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:39:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:39:28 `define discombobulation 16:39:29 * confusion: a feeling of embarrassment that leaves you confused \ [12]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn \ * discombobulate - bewilder: cause to be confused emotionally 16:40:03 i take it that is successful, then 16:46:17 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving"). 16:48:26 Today I wrote a bit of Perl so that fungot can use language models generated by our state-of-the-art VariKN n-gram toolkit; it does a fancy variable-length n-gram model growing thing with Kneser-Ney smoothing. 16:48:26 fizzie: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono! 16:48:52 The results... maybe leave something to be desired. Although I've only tried it with a one very short piece of data. 17:00:26 "our state-of-the-art"? is this from your department's research? 17:02:09 ^style 17:02:09 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 17:02:13 ^style ct 17:02:14 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 17:02:25 Yes, a published bit of it though. http://varikn.forge.pascal-network.org/ 17:03:00 Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:05:06 !help quote 17:05:06 Sorry, I have no help for quote! 17:05:09 !quote 17:05:14 `quote 17:05:15 14| So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? 17:07:03 `quote Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:07:03 oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 17:07:04 No output. 17:07:12 dammit 17:07:18 `ls bin 17:07:19 addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ unstr \ url \ wolfram 17:07:24 `addquote Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:07:25 oerjan: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now... 17:07:25 23| Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. 17:08:31 "he's really a tricycle!" A bit random. 17:08:34 "he's really a tricycle!"? 17:08:51 * oerjan swats fizzie -----### 17:10:45 Currently there's a bit of a problem in that it always uses the longest-length n-gram the tree has, which makes it a bit too likely to quote verbatim. The model gives a back-off probability I could use for randomly selecting a bit shorter context, leading to more variable output, but since the babble-generation needs to be written in Befunge I haven't had time to do it well. 17:11:44 In fact that seems to be a direct quotation from the bit: "hey, check it out! he's really a tricycle! pass him!" 17:48:54 -!- Figs has joined. 17:58:31 -!- jix has quit ("leaving"). 18:04:00 -!- jix has joined. 18:04:56 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit). 18:05:52 -!- jix has joined. 18:42:37 -!- calamari has joined. 18:46:12 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 18:46:25 I am also reaa 18:46:44 I am also really a tricycle, rather. 18:46:46 is that related to virtuaa? 18:47:40 -!- Associat0r has joined. 18:48:31 I am fucking off now. WTF is this smiley graphic it keeps trying to complete: O.O ? I'll check the logs to see. Buh-bye for now. Especially you, Associat0r (yep, nick completion works). 18:48:39 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 18:50:35 what? 18:51:02 ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:51:16 but we already knew that. he is a regular after all. 18:53:54 -!- tombom has joined. 18:56:34 `addquote ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:56:35 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:56:50 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:56:55 `quote 18:56:56 10| what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. 18:57:11 `addquote `quote 18:57:12 25|`quote 18:57:26 `delquote 25 18:57:26 No output. 18:57:29 `remquote 25 18:57:30 No output. 18:57:38 there are no such things 18:57:40 HA HA 18:57:42 Meh 18:57:43 ._. 18:57:51 `quote 24 18:57:52 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 18:57:55 `quote 25 18:57:56 25|`quote 18:57:59 `addquote Meh ._. 18:58:01 26| Meh ._. 18:58:17 `addquote oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 18:58:17 asiekierka: but, we are far outnumbered! and to think that i'm his father!! the king does not wish! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call you " knight cyrus fell while protecting our kingdom from magus. i'd stay away! 18:58:18 27| oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! 18:58:40 ^style c64 18:58:41 Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) 18:58:49 fungot: $D001 18:58:50 asiekierka: windows 95 ms-dos edit is the ordinary text that is needed when two sprites hit each other, sprite graphics 18:59:01 fungot: Wait, windows 95 and c64? 18:59:02 asiekierka: up before they can be read again. that means that program running is also abailable by setting this bit to 0 18:59:09 ABAILABLE! 18:59:16 that's the new official misspell for available 18:59:24 ^style youtube 18:59:25 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 18:59:29 fungot: planes 18:59:30 asiekierka: ok man, i've told you the attention i think 18:59:30 it means available in spanish 18:59:37 fungot: not planes 18:59:40 :( 18:59:44 oh wait 18:59:50 -!- asiekierka has changed nick to tester001asie. 18:59:54 fungot: do something 18:59:54 tester001asie: type in computer controlled 18:59:55 -!- tester001asie has changed nick to asiekierka. 19:00:04 fungot: Why are you such an idiot with YOUTUBE COMMENTS? 19:00:05 asiekierka: this plane was a test flight operated by remote control", it's a sobe commercial, but sing opera?! i want to give 4000 to each chinese citizen to pay for it 19:00:32 Sure, Figs 19:00:34 Urr, fungot* 19:00:35 FireFly: omg look it up. very sad accident. but noone will care cos you so surpriced?? 19:00:59 fungot: You don't have EMOTION! You're just a GOT! 19:00:59 asiekierka: not you and decide for yourself. we're all intittled to an old rob schneider skit called " orgasm guy. you can search air france 19:01:16 Why did I accidentally f for fungot? I just realised I'd tab my own name before fungot 19:01:17 FireFly: featuring:hillary clinton. the accident and find out for you. at least 50 journalists on board, so f ' em for nothing 19:01:20 s/name/nick/ 19:01:47 I think i should update that fungot database 19:01:48 asiekierka: who said you had a trailer, the pilot went to jail for months, to illegal futures trades, six crew. 19:02:07 this IS going to take a while 19:02:24 -!- jix has joined. 19:02:52 i'm looking for the youtube comment list AND sed scripts 19:03:00 which made them formatted (nearly) 19:03:51 * oerjan swats FireFly for doing such a stupid thing. -----### 19:04:07 -!- Figs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:44:15 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has joined. 19:50:26 -!- olsner has joined. 19:56:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:01:32 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:04:40 -!- tombom__ has joined. 21:13:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:22:07 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:22:08 -!- tombom__ has changed nick to tombom. 21:40:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 21:48:13 -!- ehird has left (?). 21:51:29 -!- ehird has joined. 21:51:55 10:48:31 I am fucking off now. WTF is this smiley graphic it keeps trying to complete: O.O ? I'll check the logs to see. Buh-bye for now. Especially you, Associat0r (yep, nick completion works). 21:51:56 10:48:39 --- quit: ehirdiphone (Client Quit) 21:51:57 10:50:35 what? 21:52:11 I was testing out (a) my new iPhone IRC client, (b) the iPhone OS upgrade I did. 21:52:18 It now has copy and paste, so I tried that. 21:52:23 "I am fucking off now." = "Bye." 21:52:32 But then when I typed "o", it tried to complete it to a smiley graphic. 21:52:40 So I tried that and checked the logs and saw it was O.O. 21:52:51 Then I tested nick completion with a long nick that just entered. 21:52:52 The end. 21:53:36 `quote 21:53:36 8| GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 21:54:12 `quote 21:54:13 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 21:54:16 `quote 21:54:16 24| ehird has gone insane, clearly. 21:54:24 Insanity and murder. 21:54:30 !ghc 21:54:32 Two great tastes that taste great together. 21:54:36 Deewiant: !haskell 21:54:39 @ghc 21:54:45 Oh, no \bot 21:55:16 Deewiant: Yeah, it died. I'll ask gwern to return it. 21:55:41 Hence why I suggested somebody run their own instead of relying on the suicidal one 21:55:47 -!- FunctorSal has joined. 21:55:50 well ask them to put #esoteric in the proper initialization list... 21:56:02 oerjan: Meh :P 21:56:13 Deewiant: The suicidal one is the "official" one and anyway compiling lambdabot is a pain. 21:56:23 FunctorSal: I espy your #haskell origins. 21:56:43 I know it's "official" but that doesn't really matter 21:56:45 The latter is a point 21:56:55 ehird: that's not a given. it could be a real category theorist. 21:57:02 so is this about strange languages or crystals and stuff? ;) 21:57:10 oerjan: But I just said #esoteric in #haskell and e's in there. 21:57:13 FunctorSal: the former 21:57:20 FunctorSal: The former, although the latter if you believe some kooks that enter here occasionally. 21:57:41 (Cue Sussman: "We conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells!") 21:57:51 If you've seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/, that's us. 21:58:12 oerjan: ehird is right; I also like CT, but wouldn't call myself a real category theorist yet ;) 21:58:27 :) 22:03:32 ^ul ((*)(*))(~:^*a~^Sa*~:^):^ 22:03:33 ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************ ...too much output! 22:03:38 oops 22:03:46 ^ul ((*)(*))(~:^*a~^( )*Sa*~:^):^ 22:03:46 * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* ********************* ********************************** ******************************************************* ***************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************* ...too much output! 22:04:08 The fibonacci sequence? Spiffy. 22:04:20 More like the fibonawesome. 22:04:41 More like wtf 22:05:09 -!- phearle has joined. 22:05:23 FunctorSal: Welcome to Esoteric. 22:05:30 .. 22:05:33 It has a lowercase e. 22:05:36 * pikhq passes crystals over the Brainfuck compiler 22:05:47 phearle: sheesh, you're one of the #haskell people too? 22:05:48 ehird: Lies and deceit, good ſir. 22:05:53 Too many! Too many! 22:05:57 pikhq: ChanServ agrees with me. 22:06:32 ehird: I'm a #haskell parson now. 22:06:32 not particularly :) 22:06:34 ehird: i recall there is someone (CESSMASTER?) who usually joins #ESOTERIC 22:06:38 pikhq: Alan Parsons? 22:06:44 No. 22:06:45 phearle: oh? 22:06:57 phearle: so where you from in particular then. that brought you here. 22:07:06 oerjan: HARDCORE ESOTERICISM 22:07:30 I saw this room mentioned in the channel, if that is what you are referring to. 22:07:36 Well, right. 22:07:42 ehird: what an unfortunate fetish to have! 22:07:54 As long as you're here for the weird languages and not the "magick", this is the right place. 22:08:04 ehird is always right. it's right there in his nick, if you reverse it and correct it a tiny bit. 22:08:08 Well, assuming you like channels that are offtopic 98.7% of the time. 22:08:40 oerjan: drihe → ridhe → righe → right. 22:08:42 I like your logic. 22:09:10 my logic is always right too. 22:09:18 my assumptions, not so much. 22:09:56 oerjan: i have a wonderful set theory 22:10:02 ZF+AoC+Bible 22:10:09 ZF set theory, plus the axiom of choice, plus all of the bible. 22:10:43 i think you could tone it down to just predicate logic + bible 22:10:56 you only need one inconsistency after all 22:11:16 But everyone knows ZF+AoC are true. 22:11:23 Everyone knows the Bible is true, too; it says so. 22:12:00 gödel might have a bit of quibble with that. 22:12:08 well, if he weren't dead. 22:12:34 Gödel is being tortured in an eternal lake of fire for his sins. 22:12:37 P.S. Jesus loves you! 22:12:53 ehird: and he _still_ considers it an improvement. 22:12:59 possibly. 22:13:03 hmm? wasn't Gödel pretty religious? 22:13:07 FunctorSal: Shut up. 22:13:08 :p 22:13:10 * oerjan has no idea 22:13:20 he was paranoid, anyway 22:13:28 Only in his later life. 22:13:30 I loved the whole "my food might be poisoned so I won't eat anything" schtick. 22:13:33 Way to fail at probability! 22:13:34 well I don't know how religious he was in everyday life, but I think he made a god-proof 22:13:43 Even if you ARE being conspired against it's a net loss... 22:14:00 oh that one. 22:14:32 'Gödel was a convinced theist and a lifelong Christian. He rejected the notion that God was impersonal, as Einstein believed. He believed firmly in an afterlife, stating: .I am convinced of the afterlife, independent of theology. If the world is rationally constructed, there must be an afterlife."' 22:15:03 I love how they just assert how it's obviously rationally so. 22:15:16 I like the ontological argument, too; I wished myself a perfect fortune that way. 22:16:01 what would that be? 22:16:05 fun fact: Quantum immortality fucking sucks as the probability of you going into a terrible coma only to wake up one second every billion years increases rapidly vs your chance of dying. 22:16:15 FunctorSal: two of 'em 22:16:15 1. God is something of which nothing greater can be thought. 22:16:16 2. God may exist in the understanding. 22:16:18 3. It is greater to exist in reality and in the understanding than just in understanding. 22:16:20 4. Therefore, God exists in reality 22:16:22 and 22:16:24 1. God is the entity of which nothing greater can be thought. 22:16:26 2. It is greater to be necessary than not. 22:16:28 3. God must therefore be necessary. 22:16:30 4. Hence, God exists necessarily. 22:16:41 I was referring to 'perfect fortune' :) 22:16:44 Ah. 22:16:46 It went like this: 22:17:03 and how did you paste that so rapidly anyway? got it on a hotkey? :D 22:17:32 ehird: ... How very null. 22:17:41 1. The Perfect Fortune is an entity that is the $1,000,000,000 of which nothing great can be thought (in the subset of $1,000,000,000s). 2. The Perfect Fortune may exist in the understanding. 3. It is greater to exist in reality and in the understanding than just in understanding. 4. Therefore, The Perfect Fortune exists in reality 22:17:43 I'M RICH!!!!!! 22:17:46 -!- Hiato has joined. 22:17:55 hm forgot to specify it was mine 22:17:56 -!- Hiato has quit (Client Quit). 22:17:58 whatever, trivial change 22:18:10 FunctorSal: copy and paste from wikipedia skillz 22:18:32 i had the article Gödel's ontological proof open anyway 22:18:34 and it links to it 22:18:49 strategically, I wouldn't argue with pure existance proofs for god. Ask them why it should be a god that imposes rather than some other god 22:18:53 *existence 22:19:29 I don't argue with theists about their religion because arguing against baked-in delusions justified by "faith" is incredibly difficult. :p 22:21:01 Funny, I could've sworn that most religions were, by their very nature, untestable. 22:21:15 pikhq: what was that a response to? 22:21:24 Plenty of delusions are inherently unprovable and untestable. 22:21:31 Poorly phrased response to that conversation. 22:21:39 In fact, believing something of the sort is true is a category of delusion. 22:22:06 I don't think throwing around insults like that convinces anyone 22:22:15 FunctorSal: I am not intending to insult everyone. 22:22:16 Er. 22:22:17 Anyone. 22:22:49 I call certain beliefs delusions because they meet all criteria and I don't make an exception to how I say things for religion just because the standard cultures do. 22:22:58 And calling a belief delusional is not a knock on the believer in any way. 22:23:44 well, it's not maladaptive in the way paranoid psychosis is 22:24:10 Paranoid psychosis is not the only other delusion... 22:24:19 maybe it's even an advantage because you are more motivated 22:24:25 (as a religious person) 22:25:00 FunctorSal: say someone had a deep conviction that every quark is actually made up of undetectable gnomes, and that by making these gnomes happy, we can improve our life. they also refuse to debate this matter with you, saying it angers the gnomes. 22:25:05 surely you would recognize this as delusional? 22:25:18 Religion is just the same, except it seems less wacky because we're used to it. 22:26:39 !bf ++++++++[->++++>++++++++>>>++++<<<<<]>>>+>+>[-<[->>+<<]<[-<.>>+<]<<.>>>>>[-<<+<+>>>]<] 22:26:39 @ @ @@ @@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 22:26:59 oerjan: Not bad. 22:27:08 I'd imagine you could get that a bit more efficient, though. 22:27:32 ehird: sure, but I mean not all religious people are in generally-delusional state of mind 22:27:42 fibonacci? 22:27:50 You can believe a delusion but still be otherwise sane 22:27:51 mhm 22:27:54 (understanding 'delusional' to be more a state of mind than something about specific beliefs) 22:28:30 Well, it's both. 22:30:45 http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001283.html ← I love how Jeff Atwood is egotistical enough to think that his pet site absolutely needs 48GB of RAM to run. 22:33:01 !bf ++++++++[->++>>>++++++++>++++<<<<<]>>+>+<<[->[-<<+>>]>[->.<<+>]>>.<<<<<[->>+>+<<<]>] 22:33:01 @ @ @@ @@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 22:33:17 no u 22:34:00 hm reversing the cells didn't make much difference 22:38:37 actually... 22:43:00 hm, lovely comment, no? http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/8xz6s/cobol_to_java_automatic_migration_with_gpled_tools/ 22:43:30 *gives commenter une monad* 22:44:21 but anything not COBOL is good. language gave me a headache trying to read ;_; 23:00:41 -!- augur has quit ("Leaving..."). 23:04:21 -!- augur has joined. 23:05:32 hi augur. 23:05:39 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 23:05:55 hey ehird 23:08:56 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:26 o_o 23:12:54 ehird: 48G of RAM? 23:13:03 ehird: Is he storing the site in RAMdisk? 23:22:38 prolly 23:27:56 I wonder, is there a general word for the things a programming language can do? 23:28:07 Sort of a mix of instruction-function-what have yous 23:28:23 Although for some I guess it's hard to speak of any of this 23:28:30 GuestShadowSkunk: Operation? 23:28:35 Like the game of life or related things. 23:28:37 Only works for imperatives, I guess 23:28:37 -!- GuestShadowSkunk has changed nick to Slereah. 23:28:47 With functional languages you never do. 23:28:49 You just reduce. 23:29:04 Well, functional languages you can speak of functions 23:29:19 I just wondered if there's a general word for that 23:32:27 Functions 23:33:13 i think a good description is like 23:33:28 this is sort of tautological but 23:34:40 functional programming is about deriving related data, imperative is about changing data, and declarative is about discovering related data 23:35:06 so i guess you could say that the things that languages can do is change, derive, or discover 23:35:30 and i dont think theres a single word to describe this, because i think they're really fundamentally different things 23:35:31 functional is a subset of declarative 23:35:36 right 23:35:38 in a sense 23:35:41 no 23:35:42 strictly 23:35:52 your analogy doesn't account for that 23:35:58 its also a subset of procedural :P 23:36:58 my point is that in terms of how you think about coding 23:37:19 functional is more about deriving new data, rather than discovering related data 23:37:44 declarative is all about discovering what exists, not deriving what you know must exist 23:38:15 brbrbrbrb 23:43:42 Slereah: "Computing quantums". 23:46:04 augur: functional != subset of procedural 23:46:37 augur: you're thinking of logical languages when you say declarative 23:46:41 declarative is just what-not-how 23:50:39 pikhq : how do you do for languages that are just strings of symbols on a set of rules? 23:50:44 Number of rules? 23:51:46 Slereah: I guess. 23:52:07 What of Thu? 23:53:12 Can it be quantised? 23:53:23 No idea. 23:53:41 I guess you could say it only has one thing, without the io, but Iunno 23:54:19 pikhq: Ha, I thought you meant literal quantum particles 23:54:27 I thought it was intentionally over-generic 23:55:32 ehird, ofcourse functional is a subset of procedural 23:55:35 ehird: No, no. Quantising computing like that would be a bit different. And interesting. ;) 23:55:39 functional is procedures that dont mutate state 23:55:44 augur: You misunderstand what procedural style i 23:55:45 s 23:55:47 procedural languages needn't have first-class functions 23:55:51 oh well, STYLE 23:55:58 is different, yes true 23:56:05 er 23:56:08 i meant paradigm 23:56:08 C, for example, is quite a procedural language. 23:56:10 but even then, functional isnt really a subset of declarative 23:56:16 procedural is generally just used to mean imperative 23:56:18 because functional still defines how 23:56:19 augur: it is, though 23:56:28 not having first class function is bat shit insane 23:56:28 it strictly is a subset, most all classifications agree 23:56:33 +s 23:56:41 *troll* ;) 23:56:45 well then its an odd definition of declarative 23:56:47 eh, i agree 23:56:50 since functional definitions are not how at all 23:56:53 FunctorSal: There's a number of languages that are bat-shit insane. 23:56:56 augur: when you say 'declarative', you're meaning 'logical' 23:57:00 logical languages infer data from rules 23:57:01 I suppose a language like Lisp is, in theory, a subset of Prolog in terms of the sorts of things you can do with it 23:57:05 you need never backtrack, after all 23:57:10 i suppose, ehird. 23:57:10 FWIW, C++ is soon going to cease to be bat-shit insane by that notion. 23:57:11 but Lisp is powerful for other reasons 23:57:17 pikhq: no it's not 23:57:23 pikhq: it's going to not fulfill one criterium 23:57:31 that criterium never claimed exclusivity 23:57:34 what do you mean by Declarative\Logic 23:57:43 but atm, C++ is a pretty good definition of insane 23:57:46 ehird: Fair enough. 23:57:54 augur: declarative languages are not the same as logical ones 23:57:58 I mean, even Perl has its own sort of internal logic 23:57:58 logical is-subset-of declarative 23:58:00 right 23:58:02 functional is-subset-of declarative 23:58:04 imperative is not 23:58:05 i know 23:58:07 ehird 23:58:12 where does behavioural go? 23:58:12 What do you mean by Declarative\Logic 23:58:20 what? 23:58:23 "Declarative\Logic"? 23:58:27 ais523: Yeah; "shell scripts on crack" is at least a design decision. 23:58:36 yes. Declarative Set-Minus Logic 23:58:37 :P 23:58:42 declarative is pretty much "all languages where you don't describe what to do in order" 23:58:55 but by that definition, VHDL is declarative 23:59:01 augur: functional, some part of behavioural (not the reactionary code which may be imperative) 23:59:05 ah ok, so you mean languages without time ordering 23:59:05 actually, it might be, that's a good classification 23:59:06 array 23:59:16 i see. well in that case ok. 23:59:16 augur: well, that's a definition that almost fits 23:59:24 VHDL is time-ordered, but you have to do it manually 23:59:27 but it's not do a; do b; do c 23:59:38 ehird: Functional can be considered a declarative language because there is no requirement that the function definition have anything to do with how its results are computed. 23:59:40 it's whenever a changes, b changes 10 seconds later 23:59:49 ehird: Erm. Subset of declarative. 23:59:54 so ehird: for what X does Functional + Logic + X = Declarative?