00:00:09 <ehird> AnMaster: quad 12x infiniband is 96 gigabits
00:00:14 <ehird> PCIe x16 is faster.
00:01:20 <AnMaster> ehird, is that per direction or combined?
00:01:21 <ehird> PCIe x16 could be faster though
00:01:30 <ehird> 1m4s to transfer a terabyte
00:01:34 <ehird> AnMaster: it's the total speed
00:01:48 <AnMaster> ehird, so it is half in either direction then?
00:01:54 <ehird> Effective theoretical throughput in different configurations
00:01:57 <ehird> so it's per direction.
00:02:12 <AnMaster> is it the same for infiniband?
00:02:19 <ehird> this is infiniband
00:03:01 <AnMaster> that is highly relevant. if it was total combined it would be slower than infiband.
00:03:09 <AnMaster> while if it was per direction it would be faster
00:03:33 <ehird> infiniband is still slow — "For example, the NEC SX-9 provides 128 GB/s of low-latency interconnect bandwidth between each computing node, compared to the 96 Gbit/s of an InfiniBand 12X Quad Data Rate link.[original research?])"
00:03:39 <ehird> that's 1024 gbit, beating all the others handily
00:03:59 <AnMaster> ehird, btw, the crt of the TV downstairs has a slightly lower frequency, still high one though
00:06:10 <AnMaster> how silly that the Irish archlinux mirror is faster by orders of magnitudes than the Swedish ones
00:06:24 <AnMaster> but then, heanet has always been a good mirror for me
00:06:40 <pikhq> ehird: Clearly we should have system buses faster than L1 cache.
00:06:47 <AnMaster> ^Ccc-4.4.0-4-i686 15,6M 9,8K/s 00:16:58 [#################################################################------------------------------------------] 61%
00:06:55 <AnMaster> gcc-4.4.0-4-i686 25,3M 1714,8K/s 00:00:15 [###########################################################################################################] 100%
00:07:25 <ehird> pikhq: QUANTUM BUS
00:07:34 <ehird> ↑ awesome idea in any interpretation
00:08:23 <AnMaster> ↑ awesome idea in any interpretation
00:08:35 <ehird> Mine can serve as that.
00:08:42 <AnMaster> (that is, both the "many worlds" one, and the other one)
00:08:57 <ehird> Quantum bus: because if we entangle passengers, we can fit more people on.
00:09:08 <ehird> Quantum bus: Using qubits to deliver infinite gigabytes/sec.
00:09:49 <AnMaster> Quantum bus: Don't look at it.
00:09:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:09:56 <pikhq> Quantum bus: quantising passengers into individual quantums so quantum mechanics applies.
00:10:36 <ehird> Quantum bus: We just put the bus in a superposition of at the starting point and at the destination, then someone looks at it from the starting point. Repeat until it ends up in the destination.
00:12:14 <pikhq> Quantum bus: We check to see if the bus has spontaneously leaped to the destination. If not, we destroy the universe.
00:12:34 <ehird> that works given quantum immortality :)
00:12:46 <ehird> well okay also many worlds but that's obvious
00:12:52 <ehird> and quantum immortality depends on MWI
00:13:33 <ehird> quantum immortality is stupid anyway.
00:13:44 <ehird> if it's true, we never sleep :)
00:15:51 <AnMaster> ehird, got a better suggestion for what it is meant for? That is, for accessing remote files across a protected network
00:16:03 <AnMaster> stuff like accessing music files on your file server
00:16:26 <ehird> But nfs has all the problems of rpc, and is crufty.
00:16:31 <AnMaster> ehird, then nfs rocks compared to the alternatives.
00:16:40 <AnMaster> I guess you would use cifs (samba)
00:16:50 <ehird> I don't give a shit. Plenty of things fit said criteria and are still crap.
00:17:05 <AnMaster> ehird, nfs is the best one though. And it works.
00:17:10 <ehird> Saying "oh, it's great because it exists!" is a very stupid thing to say.
00:17:25 <AnMaster> I didn't say "because it exists"
00:17:26 <ehird> AnMaster: plan 9 removes the cruft but keeps the fundamental issues.
00:17:30 <ehird> nevertheless, it is therefore fundamentally better.
00:17:35 <ehird> So, your statement is false.
00:17:40 <AnMaster> it is great, because it works and is quite simple to get working
00:18:33 <AnMaster> ehird, does linux and freebsd support it? IIRC Linux kernel config has some experimental "Plan9 resourcesharing fs" thingy or such
00:18:55 <AnMaster> but since the client is a freebsd machine
00:18:57 <ehird> I don't really care or know, but it's just 9P, and there are Linux implementation of 9P.
00:19:10 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P
00:19:19 <ehird> A kernel client driver for Linux is part of the v9fs project
00:19:25 <ehird> v9fs - u9fs: 9P implementation for Unix-like operating systems
00:19:37 <ehird> It's a loadable Linux module.
00:19:39 <ehird> $ mount -t 9p 10.10.1.2 /mnt/9
00:19:39 <ehird> $ mount -t 9p `namespace`/acme /mnt/9 -o trans=unix,uname=$USER
00:19:59 <ehird> AnMaster: v9fs does bsd too it seems
00:20:08 <ehird> http://swik.net/v9fs
00:20:24 <ehird> OK, nothing FreeBSDy there
00:20:28 <ehird> Documentation can be found in the Linux kernel source under Documentation/filesystems/9p.txt with a snapshot captured here
00:20:32 <ehird> AnMaster: so good news: it's in Linux mainline.
00:20:37 <AnMaster> <ehird> Creepy logo. <-- so true
00:20:47 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, doesn't help me when I use various other OS
00:21:18 <ehird> AnMaster: http://9p.cat-v.org/implementations
00:21:23 <AnMaster> ehird, I use other *BSD too a lot. Only reason I avoid OpenSolaris is the license :P
00:21:36 <ehird> 9puffs9p2000ClientCNetBSDBSDUserspace file system driver implemented on top of puffs.
00:21:40 <AnMaster> (this doesn't imply OpenSolaris is a subset of *BSD)
00:21:54 <ehird> puffs looks netbsd-only though.
00:22:08 <AnMaster> ehird, never heard of puffs, but then netbsd is the bsd I use least
00:22:15 <ehird> AnMaster: great success —
00:22:16 <ehird> http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man4/9pfuse.html
00:22:34 <ehird> Make sure you have FUSE, install Plan 9 from User Space.
00:22:41 <ehird> (Don't use your package manager; it shits all over the namespace.)
00:22:55 <ehird> (So putting it in /usr is very unwise.)
00:23:13 <AnMaster> ehird, I would highly doubt freebsd would put anything from ports in /usr
00:23:28 <ehird> You need /opt/plan9 for sanity, really
00:23:40 <AnMaster> //usr is for distro stuff (as in base system) /usr/local for stuff from ports
00:23:45 <AnMaster> /usr is for distro stuff (as in base system) /usr/local for stuff from ports
00:23:56 <ehird> AnMaster: As for the file server, what OS does it run? You could run it on Plan 9, which would be fun, but I think there's servers for Linux/BSD.
00:24:19 <ehird> AnMaster: http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man4/9pserve.html
00:24:20 <AnMaster> ehird, the file server runs OpenBSD in this case.
00:24:39 <AnMaster> but in this specific case: openbsd
00:24:45 <ehird> That doesn't handle mounting an actual real filesystem though.
00:25:00 <ehird> AnMaster: The link I made
00:25:01 <AnMaster> ehird, a real file system is all I care about sharing
00:25:12 <ehird> It's just that 9P is a very abstract protocol
00:25:23 <AnMaster> I have no interest in sharing /proc, nice as it may be, it isn't my goal in this case
00:25:41 <ehird> a lot of 9P shared stuff is things that simply don't exist in /
00:25:58 <ehird> and sharing a real fs is trivial on Plan 9
00:26:25 <AnMaster> ehird, that is my general experience with "very abstract and flexible" == hard to use in practise
00:26:33 <ehird> then you have never used plan 9
00:26:41 <AnMaster> but meh, maybe someone managed to combine those two attributes
00:26:44 <ehird> libixp9p2000Client ServerCAll Unix variantsMITOriginally as part of the wmii project.
00:26:57 <ehird> http://repo.cat-v.org/libixp/
00:27:00 <AnMaster> ehird, good examples: ALSA, OpenAL.
00:27:09 <ehird> not sure what "libixp lacks lib9p's file trees." means, but it may be a quick-and-easy way to serve 'er up
00:27:18 <ehird> AnMaster: scheme. plan 9.
00:27:41 <AnMaster> but I think there are more cases of getting it wrong than right.
00:27:48 <ehird> "[Systems] should be designed not by piling feature on top of feature, but by removing the weaknesses and restrictions that make additional features appear necessary."
00:28:10 <ehird> — Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme, s/Programming languages/Systems/.
00:28:39 <AnMaster> ehird, and this will let me do: sudo mount /mnt/phoenix
00:28:41 <ehird> 6 /* This is a simple 9P file server which serves a normal filesystem
00:28:43 <ehird> 7 * hierarchy. While some of the code is from wmii, the server is by
00:28:44 <AnMaster> vlc /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol1/track02.flac
00:28:49 <ehird> so libixp is definitely what you want
00:29:06 <ehird> AnMaster: mounting will be:
00:29:18 <ehird> AnMaster: sudo mount ADDRESS /mnt/phoenix
00:29:25 <ehird> AnMaster: that's a FUSE thing
00:29:27 <ehird> it's just a FUSE filesystem
00:29:38 <ehird> I think you have to put it in an init script with fuse
00:29:42 <AnMaster> ehird, haven't used FUSE for ages.
00:30:02 <AnMaster> ehird, also init script won't work since the systems aren't always up
00:30:11 <AnMaster> so I mount it after I booted the computer in question
00:30:17 <ehird> alias mountphoenix?
00:30:18 <AnMaster> so I have a noauto line in /etc/fstab :P
00:30:35 <AnMaster> ehird, why wouldn't fstab work?
00:30:40 <ehird> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fuse/index.php?title=FAQ#Is_it_possible_to_mount_a_fuse_filesystem_from_fstab.3F
00:30:55 <ehird> The mounting is performed by the /sbin/mount.fuse helper script. In this example the FUSE-linked binary must be called sshfs and must reside somewhere in $PATH.
00:31:03 <ehird> AnMaster: You'll just have to figure out how to call 9pfuse(1) with it
00:31:32 <AnMaster> ehird, anything that can be in /proc/mounts can in general be copied to /etc/fstab + some minor changes and made to work
00:31:38 <ehird> Welp, do that then
00:32:03 <ehird> 10 * Note: I added an ifdef for Linux vs. BSD for the mount call, so
00:32:03 <ehird> 11 * this compiles on BSD, but it won't actually run. It should,
00:32:05 <ehird> 12 * ideally, have the option of not mounting the FS.
00:32:11 <AnMaster> phoenix:/home/anmaster /mnt/phoenix nfs rw,vers=3,rsize=65536,wsize=65536,namlen=255,soft,nointr,proto=tcp,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,mountaddr=192.168.0.191,mountvers=3,mountproto=tcp,addr=192.168.0.191 0 0
00:32:12 <ehird> Might need to patch ixpsrv.c, then
00:32:17 <AnMaster> phoenix:/home/anmaster /mnt/phoenix nfs rw,nfsvers=3,soft,noauto 0 0
00:32:27 <AnMaster> cutting out the useless defaults
00:32:53 <ehird> libixp might not be th ebest choice
00:32:55 <AnMaster> ehird, mount --bind in fstab? certainly possible.
00:33:07 <AnMaster> ehird, this was phoenix mounted on linux btw
00:33:17 <AnMaster> but it is mounted on several *bsd too atm
00:33:30 <AnMaster> where I actually have the speakers connected
00:33:46 <AnMaster> (there is a reason... believe me)
00:33:54 <AnMaster> (it's called "cable length and placement"
00:34:01 <ehird> get some cable extenders?
00:34:20 <AnMaster> ehird, I already had a computer near where I needed
00:34:29 <ehird> You brought it up.
00:34:43 <AnMaster> that doesn't imply "I think it is bad"
00:34:51 <AnMaster> just "this may seem odd to you, but there is a good reason"
00:35:24 <AnMaster> ehird, a bind mount under *linux looks like: /foo/real /bar/mounted/here none rw,bind 0 0
00:35:46 <AnMaster> ehird, on freebsd you use "nullfs" iirc
00:36:02 <ehird> this other filesystem, incidentally, IS connected via ethernet right?
00:36:21 <AnMaster> ehird, via null modem cable! duh
00:36:29 <ehird> i mean, not wirelessly
00:36:40 <ehird> my main objection to networked filesystems is over the internet; fast operations — which is basically anything apart from things involving large data, on a harddrive — suddenly take up to seconds
00:36:42 <AnMaster> ehird, gbit ethernet between bsd-bsd. But wireless to the linux
00:36:46 <ehird> leaky abstraction, just like RPC
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00:37:05 <AnMaster> ehird, well depends on *which* linu
00:37:08 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:37:27 <ehird> "OpenBitTorrent is a bittorrent tracker free for anyone to use. You don't need to register, upload or index a torrent anywhere, all you have to do is to include the OpenBitTorrent tracker URL in your torrent."
00:38:11 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, does 9P fail over wlan or something?
00:38:19 <ehird> 00:36 ehird: my main objection to networked filesystems is over the internet; fast operations — which is basically anything apart from things involving large data, on a harddrive — suddenly take up to seconds
00:38:22 <ehird> (though over slow wireless counts too)
00:38:24 <ehird> 00:36 ehird: leaky abstraction, just like RPC
00:38:48 <AnMaster> ehird, got a better abstraction that does basically the same thing? ;P
00:39:04 <ehird> AnMaster: well, for controlling music over the internet...
00:39:06 <ehird> music player daemon
00:39:19 <ehird> networked music library/player with a one-server, many-client architecture
00:39:22 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean, access various large files as if it was a local file system
00:39:34 <ehird> I was giving for a specific case
00:39:48 <ehird> although of course that limits you to one track since one server, one output
00:39:57 <ehird> but that's unlikely to be a limitation for one person
00:40:02 <AnMaster> ehird, I often compile over nfs, and one computer even use nfs for /, I'm experimenting with thin clients
00:40:23 <AnMaster> ehird, that is the classical way for thin clients
00:40:53 <ehird> 00:37 ehird: "OpenBitTorrent is a bittorrent tracker free for anyone to use. You don't need to register, upload or index a torrent anywhere, all you have to do is to include the OpenBitTorrent tracker URL in your torrent."
00:40:55 <ehird> 00:37 ehird: Shiny.
00:40:57 <ehird> ↑ Update: for values of shiny equal to "same ip as the pirate bay"
00:41:03 <ehird> AnMaster: i hate traditional thin clients
00:41:31 <ehird> AnMaster: What do you mean?
00:41:38 <AnMaster> "<ehird> ↑ Update: for values of shiny equal to "same ip as the pirate bay""
00:41:40 <ehird> It's not actually a thing, they just remapped the IP to the pirate bay and put up a website saying it's something new
00:41:42 <ehird> which makes no sense
00:41:58 <ehird> "GGF only bought the domain name and a copy of the TPB's database(without logs since they dont exist). As of right now the domain name hasn't been transferred. Also the TPB's infrastructure hasn't been sold at all."
00:42:57 <ehird> "This crap hurts the industry. Where I work I've already seen people being made redundant. The more law suits to get this junk shut down the better. The Internet wasnt created to let people steal movies and music."
00:43:02 <AnMaster> ehird, about thin clients.. I'm beginning to see why after experimenting with them :P
00:46:09 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway checking out 9P is something I will do in the future. But too much kernel rebuilding on both *bsd and linux required to do this atm, will enable the options the next time I recompile the kernels though
00:46:27 <ehird> AnMaster: there's no rebuilding required
00:46:38 <AnMaster> ehird, the 9P stuff in the linux kernel?
00:46:51 <AnMaster> ehird, there is a damn kernel option for it.
00:46:59 <pikhq> There's also Plan 9 from Userspace.
00:47:00 <ehird> my advise didn't include that, though
00:47:04 <ehird> my advise was cross-platform, too
00:47:10 <ehird> we've just discussed using it
00:47:27 <ehird> *fuse9p, *9pfuse, I dunno
00:47:27 <AnMaster> ehird, so you recommend that on all OSes?
00:47:36 <AnMaster> ehird, what is your personal experience with it?
00:47:46 <ehird> AnMaster: without any further evidence, yes, I would recommend it. and the same of that as google's.
00:47:53 <pikhq> The FUSE API *is* implemented on all major OSes but Windows...
00:48:05 <pikhq> (and some minor ones; HURD, for example, has an implementation)
00:48:19 <AnMaster> pikhq, I would like to see one for PC-DOS
00:49:17 <ehird> pikhq: no it's not. loadlin!
00:50:21 <AnMaster> what was that about TPB and this tracker?
00:50:54 <pikhq> The FUSE API assumes a full-on process.
00:51:15 <AnMaster> pikhq, meh... I'm sure you could adapt it in some mad way using TSRs
00:51:36 <ehird> just implement a scheduler in the fuse program
00:51:40 <ehird> and use it to run the other programs
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01:08:00 <ehird> transhumanist anticipation of the singularity is comparable to Christian anticipation of the second coming of Jesus Christ
01:08:02 <ehird> A movement which views its ultimate purpose as bringing enlightenment to the universe sets itself up in direct opposition to God’s own purpose … their ambition — like Satan’s — will one day lead to an outright physical confrontation with God Himself. It’s a battle that God will win.
01:09:18 <pikhq> Clearly what will actually happen is that the singularity will become manifest in the form of Jesus Christ. :P
01:09:27 <ehird> The wonderful fundie site Rapture Ready: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/gillette/transhuman.html
01:09:50 <ehird> (tl;dr of the site's prerogative: "The rapture will happen in 1999. Uh. 2003. Uh. 2007. Uh. 2012."
01:10:09 <ehird> pikhq: Numbers made up.
01:10:17 <pikhq> How ignorant psuedo-Mayan of them.
01:11:00 <AnMaster> psuedo-Mayan? Why Mayan in specific?
01:11:06 <ehird> AnMaster: google 2012
01:11:23 <AnMaster> Isn't Maya a rather good (but expensive) 3D editor iirc? ~
01:11:32 <pikhq> AnMaster: Mayan calender sets 2012 as the end of the current epoch.
01:11:59 <pikhq> Some think that this means that the Mayans predicted the end of the world on 2012.
01:12:06 <ehird> http://ldopa.net/2006/06/04/cory-doctorow-visits-a-radio-shack/ ← This is hilarious
01:12:23 <pikhq> When in fact it's merely the end of the current calender epoch; it will just cycle over the day after the winter solstice.
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01:15:07 <ehird> [[Eliezer Yudkowsky (pronounced “Frankensteen”)]]
01:17:06 <AnMaster> "font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;" hm
01:17:27 <AnMaster> yet why is … turned into a box in firefox
01:17:41 <ehird> because your mom is a fly.
01:19:21 <ehird> pikhq: you're studying mathematics, right? a guy on reddit is claiming that "the length of a set is the number of elements it has" is an unusual definition
01:19:27 <ehird> and arguing that a set can have infinite items but finite length
01:21:31 <AnMaster> ehird, even to me, who isn't great at math, that sounds very odd
01:21:46 <ehird> TURN INTO A DOOM OF THE PIG
01:22:05 <AnMaster> ehird, this sounds slightly less sane than "nullity"
01:22:38 <pikhq> ehird: Infinite items but finite length?
01:23:03 <pikhq> I wonder what sort of screwy axiomatic system he's using, and how much LSD was involved.
02:48:53 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
02:51:11 * Sgeo needs to figure out how to write a resume
03:10:00 <lament> ehird: he must be talking about intervals.
03:10:26 <lament> so he's simply saying length instead of measure
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03:27:37 <Sgeo> What JS toolkit is most used by companies?
03:33:23 <Slereah> http://verrahrubicon.free.fr/SPIDER%20WEB.png
03:38:55 <Sgeo> What's the difference between jQuery and dojo?
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06:42:38 <Warrigal> BCM stands for Bienenstock, Cooper and Munro.
06:42:48 <Warrigal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCM_theory
06:43:16 <Slereah> For all I know it could be Bowel and Cock Movement
06:44:37 <Warrigal> The strangest bodily fluid ever observed.
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06:50:37 <oklodok> may i interest you all in a sevenfold glio
06:55:24 <oklodok> pikhq are you an mit student, or was your praise that of a university theoretician
06:55:44 <Warrigal> Or seven glia, if you don't have any Finland on you.
06:56:44 <oklodok> you're going to have to explain dat
06:57:11 <Warrigal> Does "sevenfold glio" have an explanation?
07:01:11 <oklodok> i've been singing glioing in the fog / glioing in the fogger / the fogger in the fol all week
07:01:22 <Warrigal> Wiktionary doesn't even have an entry for "glio".
07:01:56 <Warrigal> Therefore, it's not plain English.
07:02:03 <oklodok> it's a prefix for all that is gluey afaik
07:02:23 <oklodok> i use is as a synonym for oko.
07:02:53 <oklodok> and since when is wiktionary a dictionary
07:06:38 <oklodok> well aren't you being asynchronous
07:09:06 <oklodok> i have blow air out of my eye
07:11:45 <Warrigal> Though the English Wiktionary contains more Spanish words than the Spanish Wiktionary, if I'm not mistaken. Which is, you know.
07:13:18 <augur> this website seems to be kind of backwards
07:13:31 <augur> perhaps written by someone who's used to programming in befunge or something
07:13:44 <augur> it has a list of things
07:13:50 <augur> and they're in reverse order
07:14:00 <augur> not just numerically
07:14:04 <augur> but in terms of content
07:14:13 <augur> the first one replies to whats said in the second
07:14:33 <augur> not only that, but instead of #1 and #2 it says 1# and 2#
07:16:00 <oklodok> i had a panic induced high the other day
07:16:10 <oklodok> i like saying random things.
07:16:50 <Warrigal> Here, I'll give you a stupid piece of BNF.
07:17:08 * oklodok waits for augur to show he's in charge
07:17:18 <oklodok> you know, because of the bnf thing
07:17:52 <oklodok> well isn't that related to linguistics
07:18:06 <augur> its related to formal grammars?
07:18:24 <oklodok> am i confusing the acronym
07:18:58 <augur> it is, but only by virtue of being related to formal grammar
07:19:07 <Warrigal> <stupid> ::= {"A" <stupidB> | "B" <stupidA>} (<stupidA> {<stupidA>} | <stupidB> {<stupidB>} | epsilon}; <stupidA> ::= "A" | "B" <stupidA> <stupidA>; <stupidB> ::= "B" | "A" <stupidB> <stupidB>
07:19:22 <oklodok> anyway, may have been entirely my fault, but you definitely *did* show you're in charge.
07:19:45 <Warrigal> That piece of BNF is stupid because it's a really long way of writing <stupid> ::= {"A" | "B"}.
07:20:34 <augur> what doe the {}s mean?
07:21:13 <augur> it is not a way of writing <stupid> ::= ("A" | "B")
07:21:28 <augur> but ir might be of writing <stupid> ::= {"A"|"B"}
07:22:03 <oklodok> how's that not showing you're in charge
07:22:38 <oklodok> oh dear, her sister betrayed her!
07:23:01 <Warrigal> | is totally a space-requiring operator.
07:23:22 <augur> ur moms a space requiring operator
07:23:43 <oklodok> i think you, augur, are taking me a bit too literally today.
07:24:13 <oklodok> well you take my random, and say what
07:24:13 <augur> im taking you too seriously
07:24:17 <augur> and not just taking you
07:25:00 <oklodok> so anyone read dostojevski's idiot
07:25:35 <oklodok> turns out everyone in the 19th century was high 24/7.
07:27:19 <fizzie> Misread "anyone read that dostojevski idiot", thought "a bit harsh".
07:27:59 <oklodok> he's either an idiot of a genius, that much i know
07:28:10 <oklodok> why, why do all my typos mean something
07:29:03 <augur> fizzie: "that dostojevski idiot" does not mean dostojevski was an idiot.
07:29:28 <oklodok> yeah you'd need to reverse it or it's another genetive
07:29:56 <oklodok> anyway, augur: ur moms a space requiring operator <<< how did you come up with this
07:29:57 <fizzie> Yes, I guess it should be "that idiot dostojevski" then. Anyway, that's the meaning I parsed out of it.
07:30:22 <augur> you dont parse meanings you parse structures! :|
07:30:41 <oklodok> all this charge is charring my hair
07:30:53 <augur> all this char is charging my hair
07:31:10 <oklodok> it's not the chars themselves that charge, it's the structures
07:31:29 * augur forms a structure with oklopol
07:32:07 <fizzie> Whoa, purely-intuitivited (or maybe I remembered it from somewhere) google search style of "that * idiot" (in quotes) actually did what I wanted, which was to find that+[any-word-or-two]+idiot.
07:33:02 <augur> yes i know its shocking but i do read.
07:33:25 <augur> its a common mistake
07:33:30 <augur> read and sleep look a lot alike
07:33:36 <augur> if you close your eyes, anyway.
07:33:54 <oklodok> especially as i read the meaning behind sleep and bed, neither word in particular.
07:34:16 <oklodok> right, i probably just didn't read the last word
07:35:31 <augur> Argument Realization, Chapter 4 - Three conceptualizations of events
07:35:34 <oklodok> but are you reading that dostojevski idiot
07:35:54 <oklodok> augur: what does that mean?
07:36:27 <immibis> it means he sometimes reads words
07:36:54 <oklodok> or you can just go, it's probably too complicated for my fantastically less cleve brain.
07:37:01 <augur> the book is about how arguments to verbs are denoted
07:37:16 <augur> in terms of their position relative to the verbs, and their phrasal type
07:37:52 <oklodok> makes more sense than the meaning i *parsed* at first, that is, "argument realization" as in "how to start a fight".
07:38:01 <fizzie> Oklodok's fantastically cleaved brain.
07:38:24 <augur> you said "less cleve"
07:38:26 <oklodok> why would you take my awesome pun and turn it into that.
07:38:40 <augur> its an interesting book
07:38:44 <augur> and im off to read it now.
07:40:55 <oklodok> what was 'augur: you said "less cleve"' referring to
07:41:14 <augur> i was replying to your huh
07:41:18 <Warrigal> The little girl says to her father, "What did you bring that book that I did not want to be read to out of about Down Under up for?"
07:41:34 <oklodok> was it an explanation of fizzie's
07:41:56 <Warrigal> Change that sentence so that each preposition precedes the thing it prepositions.
07:42:03 <augur> the bane of the english teacher who things you cant end a sentence with a preposition
07:42:21 <oklodok> cool, your typo meant too.
07:42:36 <augur> warrigal, you can remove all but one of the sentence final prepositions
07:43:09 <augur> Down Under doesnt count, since its a proper noun, so we can ignore it
07:43:25 <augur> more importantly, because we want to actually have a tricky problem, we remove the whole "about Down Under" phrase
07:43:39 <augur> so we're actually left with five prepositions in a row
07:44:07 <augur> For what did you bring up that book out of which I did not want to be read to
07:44:30 <Warrigal> The little girl says to her father, "For what did you bring up that book about Down Under out of which I did not want to be read to?"
07:44:48 <Warrigal> The "up" seems to be acting as an adjective.
07:44:59 <augur> its a resultative.
07:45:21 <Warrigal> "To be read to" is rather pathological, isn't it.
07:45:28 <augur> its not a syntactic adverb
07:45:35 <augur> its an adverbial preposition, however.
07:45:48 <augur> or probably more accurately, a preposition that is an argument to the verb.
07:46:08 <augur> also, "to be read to" is not pathological at all
07:46:16 <augur> its a propositional passive.
07:46:19 <oklodok> why would it be pathological
07:46:47 <Warrigal> It's pathological in that you can't make the "to" precede its prepositionee.
07:47:14 <Warrigal> And by "prepositionee", I mean "complement".
07:47:16 <augur> true, but thats not pathological.
07:48:21 <Warrigal> It's pathological for people who want to do that.
07:48:42 <augur> everyone does that
07:48:49 <augur> some just refuse to admit it.
07:49:20 <Warrigal> Everyone makes prepositions precede their prepositionees?
07:49:46 <augur> no, everyone strands their prepositions
07:51:22 <oklodok> i wish i had something to drink to
07:51:34 <augur> drink to churchill!
07:51:54 <oklodok> i'm so going to drink up to it
07:56:37 <augur> you go drink on up to it, oklodok
07:57:14 <fizzie> You're going to be up your churchill in drinks.
07:57:25 <oklodok> i'm not sure i can drink up to it.
07:57:27 <augur> better than being up to your drinks in churchill!
07:58:04 <fizzie> Oh, I missed the "to" too.
07:58:15 <augur> i didnt notice at all.
07:58:29 <oklodok> don't they mean a different thing
07:58:43 <oklodok> up your churchill being in churchill's ass
07:59:00 * augur bes up my oklodok?
07:59:23 <oklodok> be is actually somewhat of an irregular verb.
07:59:40 <oklodok> yeah, it's occasionatively irregular, i'd say.
07:59:42 <augur> to be, i am, you are, he/she/it is, we/you/they are
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:08 <augur> i was, you were, he/she/it/was, we/you/they were
08:00:40 <oklodok> yeah and those are only the beginning
08:02:02 <oklodok> BE ME UP, BEFORE YOU GO GO
08:02:42 <fizzie> What was the original? "Beam me up before you go-go?"
08:02:55 <oklodok> i was just thinking i've definitely heard that somewhere
08:02:57 <augur> the original is wake me up.
08:03:23 <oklodok> just one fucking finger typo, and i'd be happy
08:03:46 <augur> also, its not disco
08:04:33 <fizzie> Misread "just lick me".
08:04:52 <oklodok> yeah stop sucking and start licking
08:05:00 <augur> oops, i mustve misread it too! D:
08:05:40 <oklodok> i should go too, to the shoppe, to buy
08:05:52 <oklodok> i do have beer here, but i'm not sure i'm man enough
08:06:27 <oklodok> so i saw this three-year-old
08:06:36 <oklodok> and i tried to ask him if he knew group theory
08:06:54 <oklodok> and wasn't even that interested in hearing
08:07:26 <oklodok> just wanted to pour more water in his flower soup
08:07:37 <oklodok> and list spanish words to me
08:08:59 <oklodok> although he just listed three
08:09:19 <oklodok> he wasn't interested in hearing the italian translations
08:09:38 <Warrigal> Fun generalization: instead of a subject pronoun followed by a copula, use a possessive pronoun.
08:10:41 <Warrigal> "My not alone, and your not alone either. Our all in this together. That's why we can defeat them; their all scattered about. His in one place, her in another."
08:11:51 <oklodok> guess that was a bit too obvious.
08:20:16 <oklodok> "if i didn't know better, i'd think you actually wanted the man to have a nervous breakdown" "then maybe you don't know better, because i care for your father too"
08:21:20 <oklodok> if i didn't know better, i'd think that made no sense.
08:21:43 <fizzie> Fortunately you know butter.
08:21:55 <oklodok> then again the incredible genius got the beginning of the fibonacci sequence wrong, so i guess i might be right.
08:21:56 <fizzie> In the biblical sense, I guess.
08:22:14 <oklodok> i love tv shows that have math/cs in them
08:22:35 <fizzie> We don't have a televisor.
08:22:44 <oklodok> but i mean shows that try to have them
08:23:34 <fizzie> I've heard of something called numb3rs, but no details.
08:23:55 <oklodok> if it's on tv, it's probably done wrong.
08:24:18 <oklodok> people aren't interested in anything interesting
08:25:21 <oklodok> but, i'll download that if it's a show
08:25:25 <fizzie> I like the title of this one: http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/MeasuringTheSpeedOfLightWithMarshmallows/
08:26:27 <oklodok> my connection is very slow, i'm downloading a lot of... puppies, because i finally have a stable flow of internet here.
08:26:54 <oklodok> can't get that open at all it seems
08:27:38 <fizzie> The puppies are probably eating the marshmallows, then.
08:28:31 <oklodok> i'm overdosing on life atm
08:28:43 <oklodok> probably should drink the beer to calm down.
08:29:23 <oklodok> i mean i'm seriously contemplating running out without my clothes on
08:29:43 <oklodok> you know, to greet the trees
08:30:00 <oklodok> there's a reason they have leaves
08:30:21 <oklodok> i should put my clothes on
08:31:03 <oklodok> one of my university professors moved into the building
08:31:35 <oklodok> which is not very nice because i know him well enough that i have to greet him
08:31:53 <fizzie> You might rise some eyebrows (or maybe other things as well!) if you were to go greet him sans clothes.
08:31:54 <oklodok> and i'm afraid i'll start talking math to him
08:32:04 <oklodok> which would be very unprofessional of me.
08:32:34 <fizzie> It's lunch-sausage time now.
08:32:57 <oklodok> he's a mathematica fetishist, actually
08:33:15 <oklodok> so i probably couldn't petrify his pendulum
08:34:23 <oklodok> written like a 1000 page book about mathematica, but didn't know what GC is
08:35:06 <oklodok> anyway enjoy sawing your sages, i'll try that shoppe thing
08:36:35 <augur> quantum electro dynamics
08:36:40 <augur> quod erat demonstrandum
08:37:44 <oklodok> augur speaks latin natively
08:39:10 <oklodok> i was trying to find the name of the imaginary country that'd speak latin, but wasn't sure what it'd be
08:39:27 <oklodok> couldn't come up with a language that ends in "in"
08:39:55 <oklodok> but one where the country is a simple suffix modification
08:40:11 <oklodok> which is not the case there
08:41:02 <Warrigal> Latin is the language spoken by Lats.
08:41:30 <augur> Latin is spoken by Latins in Latium.
08:41:49 <Slereah> Mandarin is spoken by mandarine
08:44:18 <oklodok> well. i guess that's too strong a word
08:44:36 <Warrigal> I think Latin and Tok Pisin are the only Wikipedias ending in in.
08:44:52 <oklodok> something like that. or occasionally obsesses over.
08:46:47 <Slereah> "# The Klingon language edition of the Wikipedia is no longer hosted by Wikimedia and is now hosted by Wikia as Klingon Wiki. There is more on the history of the Klingon Wikipedia."
08:47:31 <Slereah> "Among the problems was the existence of interwiki links from the main page and other articles, which some Wikipedians felt detracted from the scholarly appearance of the project."
08:47:43 <Slereah> Isn't an article on Obama in Klingon serious?
08:47:55 <oklodok> is it about assassinating him
08:48:13 <Slereah> I imagine such an article would refer to him as Admiral Obama
08:49:19 <Slereah> Because most of Klingon is derived from Star Trek so the vocabulary is famously rather limited
08:49:24 <Slereah> Especially for everyday things
08:49:44 <Slereah> DIvI' HoSghaj 'oH America yoSmey jIj'e' (United States of America). tInqu' yoSghomvam 'ej mIpqu'.
08:49:44 <Slereah> vaghmaH yoS ghaj. Washington 'oH monDaj'e'. motlh pa' DIvI' Hol jatlhlu'. DIS 1776 yoSmey jIj luchenmoHlu'ta'. George Washington ghaH che'wI' wa'DIch pong'e'. DaH Barack Obama ghaH che'wI' loSmaH loSDIch'e'.
08:50:11 <oklodok> i've just heard it's good for talking about killing, and nothing else.
08:50:51 <oklodok> that's why the assassin joke was so hilarious
08:51:03 <oklodok> if you were wondering why you're dripping stomach fluids
09:08:02 <immibis> !c printf("%f %f", 1.0, 0.0);
09:08:13 <immibis> !c printf("%f %f", 1.0f, 0.0f);
09:10:31 <Slereah> !c while(1){printf("f\n");}
09:11:03 <Slereah> The rest was sent in private session
09:12:25 <Slereah> Do you have to define variables with this bot?
09:12:35 <Slereah> Or are they dynamic or whatever the word is
09:12:56 <Slereah> !c a = 33; printf("%c",a);
09:13:10 <Slereah> !c int a; a = 33; printf("%c",a);
09:13:15 <immibis> !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(float),sizeof(double));
09:13:26 <immibis> this is for a discussion in #gcc btw
09:13:43 <immibis> !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(1.0),sizeof(1.0f));
09:13:57 <immibis> !c printf("%i %i",sizeof(1.0),sizeof(1.0f+2.0f));
09:14:30 <immibis> !c void a(float b) {printf("%i",sizeof(b));} void main() {a(1.0f);}
09:14:33 <Slereah> !c int a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]="f"}a = 33; printf("%c",a);
09:14:54 <Slereah> !c int a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a);
09:15:04 <Slereah> !c int[100] a; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a);
09:15:06 <immibis> !c void a(float b) {printf("%i ",sizeof(b));} void main() {a(1.0f);}
09:15:14 <immibis> !c void a(float b) {printf("%i ",sizeof(b));} a(1.0f);
09:15:24 <Slereah> !c int a[100],i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]=70;} printf("%c",a);
09:16:07 <Slereah> Disregard this, I suck cocks
09:16:24 <immibis> !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} a[99]='\0'; printf("%s",a);
09:16:38 <immibis> !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",a);
09:16:45 <immibis> !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",&a);
09:16:48 <immibis> !c int a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",*a);
09:16:49 <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7197 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$
09:16:59 <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7242 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$
09:17:00 <Slereah> Declare a char instead of an int, maybe?
09:17:10 <immibis> !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';} printf("%s",*a);
09:17:11 <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7337 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$
09:17:17 <immibis> !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",*a);
09:17:18 <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 7377 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$
09:17:25 <immibis> !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);
09:17:26 <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:17:28 <Slereah> I use ints because I hate chars D:
09:17:30 <immibis> !c char a[100]; int i; for(i=0;i<100;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);
09:17:31 <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:17:54 <immibis> instead of 0x86,0x86,0x86 you get 0x86,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x86,0x00,0x00,0x00...
09:18:04 <Slereah> If you print an int as a %c, it will just be the ASCII char with that value
09:18:06 <immibis> !c char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[99] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);
09:18:07 <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:18:20 <immibis> !c char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[1023] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);
09:18:21 <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:18:36 <immibis> !c int k;for(k=0;k<1000;k++){char a[1024]; int i; for(i=0;i<1024;i++){a[i]='f';}a[1023] = '\0'; printf("%s",a);}
09:18:41 <EgoBot> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:19:55 <immibis> !c printf("\nJOIN #gcc\n");
09:21:20 <Slereah> !c printf("Hello, world!");
09:21:49 <Slereah> !c printf("!swedish Derp derp I am swedish C");
09:21:50 <EgoBot> !swedish Derp derp I am swedish C
09:21:59 <Slereah> !swedish Derp derp I am swedish C
09:22:00 <EgoBot> Derp derp I em svedeesh C
09:22:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
09:22:21 <Slereah> What other bot as sveedeesh again?
09:22:33 <fungot> Slereah: wow i wudnt of guessed. the pilot, co-pilot, engineer and navigator, maybe she'll be able to take off instead of land why the hell out when i saw this footage does show promise... it looks pre-rendered. i believe the cause of this
09:22:42 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
09:22:50 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube*
09:22:55 <fungot> immibis: the only reason i'd watch the documentary on this
09:23:01 <fungot> immibis: we all know this sounds a lot was riding on this on snl. andy, jorma, akiva schaffer, and it shows exactly that in france
09:23:08 <fungot> immibis: he's pretty amazing... and you didn't answer the question: how exactly can a ' go around
09:23:15 <Slereah> !c printf("fungot, want to gay out?");
09:23:16 <fungot> Slereah: wow that was a computer? look, now shes ok, farinelli... but i think senator clinton's management of the story of the company to fly
09:23:16 <EgoBot> fungot, want to gay out?
09:23:19 <immibis> fungot, i don't know how a ' can go around...
09:23:19 <fungot> immibis: i'm a pussy by birth! i can't wait
09:23:35 <Slereah> Why won't the bots communicate :(
09:23:38 <immibis> FIZZIE: Bug report. Fungot generates incomplete sentences.
09:23:43 <immibis> probably set to ignore each other
09:23:48 <Slereah> !swedish fungot, want to gay out?
09:23:48 <fungot> Slereah: as to how these were the people skills of a plane, knowing men, women and their children died as you always do--i've come to mine by consulting such sources as time changes to stop judging whats on the screen
09:23:48 <EgoBot> foongut, vunt tu gey oooot? Bork Bork Bork!
09:24:06 <Slereah> I'm afraid we have enough bots as it is
09:24:39 <fizzie> That's fungot's current ignore-regexp.
09:24:40 <fungot> fizzie: fuck you encul de tes morts de ta race de narvale putain de ta race de narvale putain de ta mere stizz would not pick up duke nukem trailer.
09:24:47 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube*
09:25:52 <fizzie> The "when to stop a sentence" thing is a bit arbitrary and pessimal.
09:26:35 <fungot> immibis: the add about not wanting to go around it spose to be amazing
09:26:42 <immibis> that just plain doesn't make sense
09:26:46 <immibis> fungot, i don't understand you
09:26:46 <fungot> immibis: i still love you nalts! your awesome!!
09:26:56 <fungot> immibis: it's not a large turbojet aircraft gets slow enough it requires more power but the computer wouldn't provide power, but i loved it. if you don't even like basketball stalled and crashed
09:27:13 <immibis> runs shell commands i think
09:27:19 <HackEgo> asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.8417
09:27:27 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
09:27:36 <immibis> you can do one-parameter commands with `command argument goes here
09:27:47 <immibis> or normal shell commands with `run command and arguments
09:27:50 <Slereah> `echo !swedish bork bork bork
09:28:02 <Slereah> Why won't the robots be friends :(
09:28:14 <fungot> Slereah: wow hes gay?" i believe you still you don't, etc.
09:36:05 <immibis> what kind of person is /o\???
09:36:18 <Slereah> Putting his arms on his head
09:36:44 <Slereah> _o_ _o/ _o\ \o\ \o/ \o_ /o/ /o_ /o\
09:36:45 <myndzi> /\ >\ >\ /| >\ /< /| >\ /|
09:38:44 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
09:39:20 <Slereah> Are you the Italian VIPPER?
09:41:01 -!- toBogE has joined.
09:43:10 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
09:43:10 <toBogE> All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex
09:43:12 <toBogE> !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum
09:43:14 <toBogE> !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix
09:43:46 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for setprefix!
09:43:46 <toBogE> All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex
09:43:48 <toBogE> !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum
09:43:50 <toBogE> !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix
09:44:02 <Slereah> !bf_txtgen !c printf("`echo _o_");
09:44:11 <EgoBot> 205 +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.<-.>+++++++++++++.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<++++++++.------.>------.>++.<+++.>+++.+++++++.<<--.>----.>.<.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.>>>-. [621]
09:44:30 <Slereah> !bf +++++++++++[>+++>+++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>.>.<-.>+++++++++++++.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<++++++++.------.>------.>++.<+++.>+++.+++++++.<<--.>----.>.<.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.>>>-.
09:44:30 <EgoBot> !c printf("`echo _o_");
09:44:30 <toBogE> !c printf("`echo _o_");
09:44:58 <GregorR-L> Is toBogE still old EgoBot or new EgoBot?
09:45:34 <immibis> completely unrelated except for the name
09:45:44 <toBogE> All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex
09:45:46 <toBogE> !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum
09:45:48 <toBogE> !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix
09:46:24 <Slereah> !bf_txtgen !c printf("`echo _o_ fungot");
09:46:24 <fungot> Slereah: ht tp jeanclaudeboetsch. free. fr/ level of cod4 while on the screen!!! to cap it all, all of that plane
09:46:27 <EgoBot> 288 ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++.>+.<-.>>.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<<++++++++.------.<--.>>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<--.<-.>>.<<.>.>>.<++++++.>++++++++.-------.++++++++.<-.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------. [501]
09:46:41 <Slereah> !bf ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>+++++.>+.<-.>>.++.---------.+++++.++++++.--------------.<<++++++++.------.<--.>>++.--.+++++.+++++++.<--.<-.>>.<<.>.>>.<++++++.>++++++++.-------.++++++++.<-.<++.+++++++.++++++++++++++++++.-------------------------------------------------.
09:46:41 <EgoBot> !c printf("`echo _o_ fungot");
09:48:17 <immibis> !regex repeat _o_ replace _o_
09:48:46 <immibis> !regex stuff stuff replace other stuff
09:49:30 <toBogE> immibis is my creator.
09:49:44 <toBogE> #esoteric is a channel on irc.freenode.net. The topic is 'Esoteric programming language discussion | FORUM AND WIKI: esolangs.org | CHANNEL LOGS: http://ircbrowse.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric | IRP in #irp | Don't spam the channel with EgoBot commands, /query EgoBot | Don't spam the channel with toBogE commands, /join #toboge | Don't spam the channel with bsmnt_bot commands, take him to your own channel. | Cong
09:50:32 <immibis> why didn't that do anything? o.o
09:51:03 <fizzie> Didn't you just change the prefix?
09:51:29 <immibis> so that why its not doing anythin
09:51:57 <immibis> @regex repeat \o/ replace _o/
09:52:09 <immibis> @regex repeat \\o/ replace _o/
09:53:48 <fizzie> Is that @raw available for anyone?
09:53:52 * immibis wonders why that was in there
09:54:05 <fizzie> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:05 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:06 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:06 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:07 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:07 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:07 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:08 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:08 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:08 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:08 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:08 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:09 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:09 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:09 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:10 <fungot> @raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:10 -!- fungot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:54:11 <toBogE> ^ul (@raw PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
09:54:15 <toBogE> 1 Process on #esoteric: ps (Thread-ID 19)
09:54:34 <immibis> lol is it meant to do that?
09:54:37 <fizzie> I was just thinking we're bound to have one loop sooner or later.
09:54:56 <immibis> is it meant to quit i mean?
09:55:27 <immibis> and try it over and over until you get the right timing
09:55:38 <immibis> on second thought, your way's better
09:55:52 -!- fungot has joined.
09:56:02 <toBogE> All known commands: !bf !bf8 !binascii !chanlist !delregex
09:56:04 <toBogE> !factoid !hello !help !irp !loadbfc !magritte !minimum
09:56:06 <toBogE> !module !nil !persist !ps !raw !regex !rot13 !setprefix
09:56:17 <fizzie> Now that we've gotten the loop out of the way, I did the boring thing and added "toBogE" to fungot's ignore-list. Sowwy.
09:56:17 <fungot> fizzie: undefined variable ' nil'.)
09:56:20 <immibis> @irp Please repeat this sentence unless it has been said more than once before.
09:56:53 <immibis> that appears to make it join #irp, say the sentence and then part
09:58:27 <immibis> i found something called module_dollar_auction in the source...
09:59:25 <toBogE> I have a dollar extra, but who will I give it to?
09:59:25 <toBogE> I know, I'll auction it off!
09:59:25 <toBogE> Everyone who wants to play, say ME!
09:59:25 <toBogE> You have 15 seconds to say ME! before the game starts
09:59:39 <toBogE> Ok, now you can bid by saying your bid on a line by itself.
09:59:40 <toBogE> $123 means 123 dollars. $1.23 means 123 cents. 123 means 123 cents. 1.23 means 123 cents.
09:59:40 <toBogE> You may say quit to withdraw from bidding.
09:59:40 <toBogE> I will announce the results when everyone has withdrawn. Start when I say.
10:00:07 <toBogE> immibis has withdrawn from bidding.
10:00:10 <toBogE> And now for the results.
10:00:13 <toBogE> The highest bidder was: immibis. He bid 1 cents. He gained -99 cents
10:00:14 <toBogE> immibis bidded -99 cents. He gained -99 cents
10:00:16 <toBogE> Now to find out who won. The winner is...
10:00:19 <toBogE> Game finished. Module unloading.
10:00:59 <immibis> it only auctions pretend dollars :(
10:01:03 <toBogE> I have a dollar extra, but who will I give it to?
10:01:03 <toBogE> I know, I'll auction it off!
10:01:03 <toBogE> Everyone who wants to play, say ME!
10:01:03 <toBogE> You have 15 seconds to say ME! before the game starts
10:01:08 <AnMaster> immibis, what esolang is it coded in?
10:01:18 <toBogE> Ok, now you can bid by saying your bid on a line by itself.
10:01:18 <toBogE> $123 means 123 dollars. $1.23 means 123 cents. 123 means 123 cents. 1.23 means 123 cents.
10:01:18 <toBogE> You may say quit to withdraw from bidding.
10:01:18 <toBogE> I will announce the results when everyone has withdrawn. Start when I say.
10:01:20 <immibis> it isn't but it interprets brainfuck
10:01:23 <immibis> therefore its allowed here
10:01:43 <toBogE> immibis has withdrawn from bidding.
10:01:46 <toBogE> And now for the results.
10:01:48 <toBogE> The highest bidder was: Slereah. He bid 1000000 cents. He lost $9999.0
10:01:50 <toBogE> immibis bidded 100 cents. He lost $1.0
10:01:52 <toBogE> Slereah bidded 999900 cents. He lost $9999.0
10:01:54 <toBogE> Now to find out who won. The winner is...
10:01:56 <toBogE> Game finished. Module unloading.
10:02:41 <immibis> especially when theer's only one person playing...
10:02:51 <immibis> the winner is !!!! apparently
10:03:03 * immibis can't remember when he wrote that
10:05:56 <immibis> because it can easily load classes dynamically.
10:05:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
10:06:13 <immibis> so i can add new commands (if i want to) and modules (also if i want to) without restarting it
10:06:24 <AnMaster> immibis, I made an irc bot in bash that could load and unload modules dynamically
10:06:40 <immibis> you'd rather write an irc bot in bash than in java?
10:06:58 <AnMaster> immibis, http://envbot.kuonet.org/trac btw
10:07:33 <fizzie> Hey, even fungot (written in Funge-98) can reload itself dynamically without restarting it. :p
10:07:34 <fungot> fizzie: i assume that termite will behave uniformly on windows and linux port, but textmate remains exclusive for the mac
10:08:03 <AnMaster> you can do it, with more or less work, in most languages
10:08:43 <AnMaster> you can even do it in C. I can think of two ways to replace the "core".
10:08:47 <fizzie> Though admittedly it gets confused if there are too large changes in the structure. And it's so far not able to reload the "^style" listings without a restart, even though that'd be reasonably trivial.
10:09:35 <AnMaster> 1) start a new process, send over the state and fds over a unix socket 2) use mprotect() and some other magic to rewrite the code in memory.
10:10:28 <immibis> Each command is a class. When you need to execute a command, load it with a new class loader so it doesn't get the cached version. Simple.
10:10:49 <immibis> Of course, you can only rewrite the commands.
10:11:00 <fizzie> Irssi's "/upgrade" command -- to be used after you've upgraded the binary -- does that first one. (Well, I'm not sure what it uses to pass the state information to the child, but anyway.)
10:11:02 <AnMaster> I would probably require explicit reloading of modules for speed reasons
10:11:23 <AnMaster> fizzie, yes, I remember some ircd could do it to reload the core...
10:11:36 <immibis> AnMaster: Maybe if you're processing hundreds of commands per second...
10:11:44 <AnMaster> for reloading modules in C you can of course just do some dlopen()/dlclose() stuff
10:11:47 <immibis> Or have a really slow computer.
10:11:58 <fizzie> I guess with AnMaster speed's a matter of principle.
10:12:29 <AnMaster> immibis, I assume even handling server messages like PING, numerics and such are reloadable modules?
10:12:41 <immibis> no, that's handled in the irc library it uses.
10:13:04 <immibis> give me three good reasons not to use one.
10:13:23 <fizzie> Perversity, esotericity and... fabulousity?
10:13:25 <AnMaster> immibis, that implementing the IRC protocol is trivial. Maybe 30-40 lines at most.
10:13:44 <AnMaster> learning a library seems a bit of a waste
10:16:51 * immibis notices that it doesn't actually reload commands each time
10:17:07 <toBogE> Caught a java.lang.InstantiationException! toboge.Execer_Error
10:17:16 <AnMaster> a library would end up with some API like: connect(Server, Port) -> SocketOrErrorCode disconnect(Socket) -> void getline(Socket) -> LineOrErrorCode sendline(Socket, String) -> ErrorCode
10:17:35 <AnMaster> maybe a parameter for ssl to connect() too
10:17:50 <AnMaster> freenode doesn't support ssl though
10:18:05 <immibis> m.c=new IRCConnection(network,6667,6669,password,nick,nick,"Extensible EgoBot Clone");
10:18:15 <immibis> m.c.addIRCEventListener(m);
10:18:32 <AnMaster> immibis, ah right, you could let it handle the whole connection if you wanted
10:18:34 <fizzie> A trivial implementation is trivial. Certainly you can spend more lines, trying to interpret the 005 numerics sensibly and providing a more user-friendly object-oriented view of the IRC connection.
10:18:36 <AnMaster> so then it would need the nick too
10:18:52 <fizzie> Irssi's irc/core/*.c files hold a total of 9217 lines.
10:18:54 <AnMaster> fizzie, does OO view of IRC make sense?
10:19:08 <fizzie> It doesn't make too much unsense, for one thing.
10:19:13 <AnMaster> fizzie, does that include the user interface and such?
10:19:20 <immibis> it isn't very oop, it just has IRCConnections and IRCEventListeners
10:20:02 <AnMaster> fizzie, and yes interpreting 005, rate limiting sending and such could be added sure.
10:20:31 <AnMaster> and I guess you could let it handle replying to server pings
10:21:02 <fizzie> Well, it includes the "user interface" in the sense that there are implementations for all (directly IRC-related) "/foo"-style commands, which wouldn't really be part of a generic IRC library.
10:21:28 <AnMaster> fizzie, formatting /who output nicely and such?
10:22:05 <fizzie> Not that. But what to send to the server when a client does a "/who".
10:23:57 <fizzie> I've seen at least one OO-style IRC library which took care of stuff like automagically remembering the people on channel (based on joins and quits) and so on.
10:24:31 -!- toBogE has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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10:25:49 <immibis> toboge has 3 languages you can't do much in (magritte, minimum, nil), one you can (brainfuck) and one you sometimes can (irp) :(
10:26:05 <immibis> oh, one more you can't (hello)
10:26:08 <EgoBot> Unknown command (HH) encountered
10:27:38 <fizzie> I could easily be replaced by a fungot instance that has just been trained with only my own speech.
10:27:39 <fungot> fizzie: and hanson explains why it works not. going via the main ' formula' twice, just because you're used to, but then when it takes too long
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10:28:33 <immibis> fungot, could you replace fizzie?
10:28:34 <fungot> immibis: that could encode any non-negative integer, is a relationship. yay
10:28:40 <fungot> immibis: no, they are all
10:29:01 <Slereah> !swedish and hanson explains why it works not. going via the main ' formula' twice, just because you're used to, but then when it takes too long
10:29:01 <fizzie> fungot: Just believe in yourself and you can do it!
10:29:01 <EgoBot> und hunsun ixpleeens vhy it vurks nut. gueeng feea zee meeen ' furmoole' tveece-a, joost becoose-a yuoo're-a used tu, boot zeen vhee it tekes tuu lung
10:29:01 <fungot> fizzie: how wasn't the weather? :)
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10:41:18 <oerjan> <ehird> [[Eliezer Yudkowsky (pronounced .Frankensteen.)]] <-- bloody americans don't know it's "frankenstine"?
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12:11:09 <ehirdiphone> Actual LOL at "how wasn't the weather?". Gotta love fungot.
12:11:10 <fungot> ehirdiphone: i just spent three seconds wondering why `data track' by `data track' by `data track' by `data track' wouldn't play from this cd
12:11:48 <AnMaster> ehird, too many "by data track" repeated there to make sense
12:11:51 <oerjan> ehirdiphone: maybe not exactly that number of iterations
12:13:00 <ehirdiphone> I found a wonderful thing yesterday night; let me load up my trans-computer bookmarking system: http://gmail.com/
12:13:04 <ais523> ehirdiphone: I love the quote "how wasn't the weather" too
12:13:35 <ais523> heh, I'm going the other way round, I'm using my laptop as a cross-website email system
12:13:37 <AnMaster> interesting... vlc has an ncurses frontend...
12:13:46 <ais523> I finally managed to set up my Yahoo! Mail account to be sane
12:14:10 <ais523> not that I even really created it deliberately, it's just that both my main and secondary email have gone down
12:14:18 <ais523> and I happened to have a spare Yahoo! account lying around
12:14:32 <ais523> and yes, I am; I'm only using Yahoo! as a relay atm
12:14:36 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, why does he trust yahoo then?
12:14:59 <AnMaster> ehird, well right, but I meant as in a ncurses GUI for the playlist and so on
12:15:11 <AnMaster> ehird, haven't tried playing video with this frontend yet...
12:15:21 <ais523> I accidentally muddled VLC with VNC then, and got confused
12:16:06 <ehirdiphone> Here we go. http://www.smallbizcenter.info/magniwork.php?apid=A5M&apflag=1&gclid=CM7V14r9v5sCFd0B4wod6zhdEg&v=1. They claim literally to have a perpetual motion machine giving infinite free energy for $100 + $197 ~= $300.
12:17:13 * ais523 imagines what a playlist on a VNC would do
12:17:40 <ais523> maybe you could use it if you were one of those schools IT people who goes around looking at what the students are doing
12:17:49 <ais523> although a VNC isn't really perfect for that
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12:25:28 <AnMaster> ais523, a rather nice ncurses gui btw: http://omploader.org/vMXhrNA
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12:35:32 <ehirdiphone> Whoa, trippy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Fi1VcbpAI
12:37:40 <ais523> AnMaster: you're linking to a screenshot of a curses prorgam?
12:37:40 <AnMaster> why were any cars driving on it by that point of time
12:37:52 <ais523> but curses is text-based!
12:38:02 <ehirdiphone> What we need is a VNC client for VLC, and to use it in the curses interface
12:38:04 <ais523> surely by now someone's invented a copy-and-paste-with-colour
12:38:21 <ehirdiphone> AnMasterwhy were any cars driving on it by that point of time
12:38:26 <ais523> there's ttyrec I suppose, but it's not quite the same thing
12:38:53 <AnMaster> ok, videos opens a X window with the ncurses frontend
12:39:01 <AnMaster> I guess video interface is a separate parameter
12:39:38 <AnMaster> ehirdiphone, there is probably another parameter for it
12:39:52 <AnMaster> like there is for alsa vs. oss for audio backedn
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12:39:59 <AnMaster> just haven't found the right one yet
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15:37:22 <pikhq> oklodok: I'm an undergrad student in Missouri.
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16:06:20 <Dartus_Clicus> Let's see... I recognize Warrigal, ais, pikhq, and comex from ##nomic. ais was right, nomic and esolanging /do/ have a lot of people in common.
16:06:32 -!- Dartus_Clicus has changed nick to Darth_Cliche.
16:08:14 <Darth_Cliche> Didn't notice him. ehird = tusho = zuff, right?
16:08:45 <pikhq> Also, Oerjan (who's not here right now) used to play Agora.
16:10:23 <Darth_Cliche> according to the frappr map, pik, you live in Colorado?
16:11:33 <Darth_Cliche> Oh, and ihope is on here, according to the map. Another nomicer
16:11:58 <pikhq> Used to. Now live in Missouri...
16:14:07 <Darth_Cliche> I can't find ais anywhere on the map. I've check everywhere in both America and Britain
16:14:14 <ais523> Darth_Cliche: I'm not on it
16:14:21 <ais523> although you can deduce my current location from my email address
16:14:33 <ais523> well, my old, currently-nonfunctional one, anyway
16:14:41 <ais523> Darth_Cliche: ais523@bham.ac.uk
16:14:44 <ais523> the domain name should be clear enough
16:15:39 <Darth_Cliche> So, /another/ British person? Current British friends of mine: Kevan, ais523, Devenger (Scottish)
16:16:12 <ais523> esolangers tend to be either British or Scandinavian, although there are a few Americans, and a few people of other nationalities
16:16:57 <ais523> yep, one of the more surprising statistical tendencies
16:17:21 <Darth_Cliche> There are a higher percentage of Scandinavian websurfers in one year than Americans
16:17:48 -!- mtd has left (?).
16:18:16 <ais523> I was talking about the high proportion of Scandinavians, it's a lot higher than on the Internet generally
16:19:10 <Darth_Cliche> he invented Piet, Chef, and Ook, among other things
16:19:10 <ais523> yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian
16:19:26 <ais523> inventor of INTERCAL's threading and backtracking extensions
16:20:27 <Darth_Cliche> I have a friend from San Seriffe who codes Brainfuck
16:20:39 <ais523> anyone we know here, I wonder?
16:20:48 <ais523> there are a lot of BF programmers in the wild, though, so to speak
16:20:52 <ais523> it's an addictive language
16:21:35 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration >>+++++<-----<(-)*128(+-)*10000
16:21:43 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 15.8
16:21:58 <Deewiant> You don't have to program, really
16:21:59 <ais523> the sport was invented in Agora, incidentally
16:22:05 <ais523> and EgoBot's an esolang bot
16:22:14 <ais523> !bf_txtgen Darth Cliche
16:22:17 <EgoBot> 121 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-. [462]
16:22:22 <Deewiant> What I think I mean is that there's no higher level to it than the BF
16:22:25 <ais523> !brainfuck +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-.
16:22:31 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
16:22:42 <ais523> !bf8 +++++++++++[>+++>++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>>++.>--.+++++++++++++++++.++.------------.<<-.>-.>++++.---.------.+++++.---.>-.
16:22:48 <Deewiant> Whereas even in something like hello world, the BF acts on a much lower level than what you're trying for
16:23:10 <EgoBot> 132 +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------. [581]
16:23:25 <EgoBot> languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
16:23:51 <Darth_Cliche> !bf8 +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------.
16:24:03 <ais523> ^bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>------.>-.+.>-----.>++.<<.>.>.<<--------.>>.<+.<++++.>-.+.>----------------------.
16:24:20 <ais523> ok, that's strange, why did fungot add a full stop?
16:24:21 <fungot> ais523: fnord. sah to be victorious, to endure, to hold out, as i recall
16:24:26 <ais523> ^bf ++++++++++..........
16:24:30 <ais523> oh, it prints newline as dot
16:25:15 <ais523> whoops, missed the colon
16:25:17 <ais523> !befunge98 "mmH">,:#_@
16:25:29 <ais523> !befunge98 "mmH">:#,_@
16:25:38 <ais523> Deewiant: I know, just my Befunge is a little rusty
16:25:52 <ais523> Darth_Cliche: that's an infinite loop
16:26:01 <ais523> nah, it kills infinite loops after a while
16:26:16 <ais523> hmm... where's thutubot got to?
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16:27:33 <ais523> +ul (This is a test.)S
16:27:53 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload
16:35:52 <ais523> Darth_Cliche: that's a no-op
16:36:00 <ais523> and a joke program in the original article
16:38:28 <Darth_Cliche> XCIX beer solum in parietis, XCIX beer solum. Take I down, obduco inter, XCVIII beer solum in parietis.
16:39:01 <ais523> sounds like the sort of thing you'd do in an INTERCAL beer progrm
16:39:12 <ais523> it outputs in Roman numerals by default; if you want decimal, you have to convert by hand
16:40:44 <Darth_Cliche> Now I'm reading a guide on DECLENSION AND CASE, the most evil things in the world
16:42:57 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE)
16:43:07 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|thutubot)
16:43:13 <fizzie> I really should make that thing persistent.
16:43:34 <fizzie> Or just give up. We had a fungot-toBogE loop today.
16:43:34 <fungot> fizzie: ( display " fnord ( unsigned char) fnord " fnord un fnord ooff fnord.
16:46:45 <ais523> obviously an EgoBot rival
16:46:52 <fizzie> It was here during the day.
16:46:55 <ais523> also, that misses Lambdabot
16:47:08 <ais523> and itself, although I assume that's dealt with elsewhere
16:47:36 <ais523> and ehird's replay bot, although I've forgotten what that's called
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16:49:32 <Hiato> ais523: I was going through my old maths books (for exams/SAT's) and I found a nice little box that said "Thanks to ais523" under which my teacher wrote "Is that a formula? Show substitution". Heh, just thought I'd let you know
16:51:23 <oklodok> oerjan: also, oklodok!!!!! <<< hi oerjie!
16:51:31 <oklodok> augur: oklodok! <<< hi again augie!
16:51:40 <oklodok> ehirdiphone: Hi oklodok. <<< hello phone dood!
16:52:38 <oklodok> pikhq: oklodok: I'm an undergrad student in Missouri. <<< okay, you just mentioned mit owns, so i checked.
16:53:17 <Darth_Cliche> MIT = Massachussetts Institute of Technology, not Missouri Institute of Technology
16:54:04 -!- comex has changed nick to judicaster.
16:54:07 <pikhq> Darth_Cliche: Well aware.
16:54:26 <pikhq> (though we did try to get my school renamed to "Missouri Institute of Technology".)
16:55:19 <oklodok> Darth_Cliche: oklodok: Darth Cliche! <<< Um... <<< i copy paste actually messages and add stuff after the <<<, makes no sense if your client shows messages in some other way.
16:55:35 <oklodok> pikhq: yes, you were very eager to tell they use scheme
16:55:44 <oklodok> unless i misunderstood you.
16:56:44 <fizzie> <pikhq> About the only thing we've got going for us is that our university system is pretty good – IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. <ehird> That's true, I'd love to go to mit.
16:56:49 <fizzie> That was the recent thing.
16:56:59 <oklodok> and i thought it was you who told me that
16:57:10 <oklodok> i mean i knew it already, but i thought it was you who told it then
16:57:44 <oklodok> i'm referring to when i asked whether mit was good.
16:57:49 <fizzie> They don't use Scheme any more, anyway. At least in the iconic 6.001 course.
16:58:18 <oklodok> because i'm thinking trying out the american unis after a few years
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17:09:13 <fizzie> Heh, VirtualBox seems to have jumped from the 2.2 numbers directly to 3.0.
17:10:15 <oklodok> what does the sentence mean, and after that, what does the actual data mean
17:11:06 -!- Darth_Cliche has left (?).
17:11:16 <fizzie> I just mean that they've been numbering their (recent) releases 2.2.0, 2.2.2, 2.2.4 and one would assume the next one would have been 2.3.0, but it is 3.0.0 instead.
17:12:47 <fizzie> Well, or 2.3.0 or 2.2.6, depending on whether they actually did anything special. 3 is quite a jump, and seems it's "only" because it now supports SMP for the virtual machines.
17:13:30 <oklodok> some esolangs have even been known to do jumps like 1.6 -> 7.0
17:13:55 <AnMaster> iirc one ircd did something like that too.
17:14:23 <pikhq> fizzie: Also 3D support.
17:14:26 <fizzie> Slackware had their 4 -> 7 jump too.
17:14:39 <oklodok> i assumed fizzie would know what i'm referring to
17:14:41 <pikhq> Slackware did it just for the sake of version expansion. XD
17:14:43 <fizzie> 3D, schmee-dee. I don't believe it works.
17:15:01 <fizzie> RedHat was doing numbers like 6 or so, they had to catch up.
17:15:32 <oklodok> anyway i guess i have to admit my latter question made no sense.
17:15:42 <oklodok> didn't realize it was about version numbers
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17:17:36 <oklodok> i still want an answer though
17:18:31 <fizzie> You want to know the meaning of the version numbers?
17:19:00 <oklodok> i want to know what that jump signifies.
17:19:13 <oklodok> what is the greater purpose beneath it
17:20:06 <fizzie> Officially they just want to communicate the fact that adding SMP and some sort of better 3D acceleration support is such a major change that it justifies a new version number. Unofficially, I think it has to do with world domination. Most things do.
17:20:45 <pikhq> Or getting in someone's pants.
17:23:29 <oklodok> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
17:23:40 <oklodok> pikhq: are you sure it wasn't you who said they use scheme
17:25:00 <oklodok> although i guess you may remember your lines better than me.
17:25:18 <oklodok> i just don't like misremembering irc conversations
17:27:22 <oklodok> one of the only things i remember without explicitly committing them to my memory
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19:58:52 <oerjan> <ehirdiphone> Was it constant vaccuum instead? <-- vaccuum [sic] would be something like raining cows, i think. so maybe.
20:03:02 <oerjan> also, is the ehirdiphone anything like the gaffophone?
20:05:13 <oerjan> what the heck wikipedia says that comics hasn't been translated to english!
20:05:36 <oerjan> more proof english speakers are really aliens from another planet
20:09:42 -!- calamari has joined.
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20:16:11 <oerjan> <ais523> yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian
20:16:19 <oerjan> he's also an ancient agoran
20:17:04 <fizzie> Misread "he's also an ancient algorithm".
20:19:17 * pikhq kills oerjan for telling the truth about the Anglo-Frisian languages
20:20:13 <oerjan> in fact have i have a vague recall that he may have been responsible for the special gender-neutral pronoun, as Blob didn't present as either male or female
20:20:46 <pikhq> s/recall/recollection/
20:21:00 <pikhq> Recall is the verb; recollection is how you noun it.
20:21:25 <oerjan> total recollection there
20:22:07 <pikhq> Dammit, English is screwy.
20:22:08 <oerjan> pikhq: when did i tell the truth about the anglo-frisian languages?
20:22:44 * oerjan stops channeling AnMaster
20:22:59 <oerjan> and in so doing, inevitably causes another ?
20:23:21 <oerjan> darn i was hoping to get that comment in before AnMaster's
20:23:22 <AnMaster> oerjan, I was playing freeciv, did you want anything when you highlighted me?
20:23:37 <AnMaster> I'm* going back playing freeciv
20:23:40 <oerjan> AnMaster: only to have you act stereotypically
20:23:49 <ais523> AnMaster: set your highlight to only higlight you if your name's at the start of the line
20:23:54 <ais523> to avoid this sort of awkward moment
20:24:02 <AnMaster> really ais523? Sure that is a good idea?
20:24:17 <ais523> AnMaster: not sure, it depends on what you want highlighting to do for you
20:24:30 <ais523> if it's only comments directed at you, then start-of-line may be a good idea
20:24:35 <oerjan> wait, _i_ am annoyed that irssi _doesn't_ highlight all instances of my nick
20:24:37 <ais523> if you want to know comments about you, then higlight everywhere
20:24:53 <ais523> oerjan: what, I thought all IRC clients did by default?
20:25:40 <oerjan> i downloaded a simple dark on white one
20:26:21 <oerjan> it mostly highlights oerjan at the start
20:27:31 <Asztal> hilight_nick_matches = ON
20:28:12 <oerjan> it just doesn't catch all instances
20:29:27 <Asztal> `haskell putStrLn "What's an Asztal?"
20:29:44 <oerjan> irssi's online option documentation really sucks
20:29:53 <oerjan> where by sucks, i mean is nonexistent
20:30:51 <oerjan> HackEgo doesn't have haskell afaik
20:30:56 <HackEgo> asm-test \ asm-test.S \ asm-test.c \ bin \ busybox \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.28081
20:31:03 <HackEgo> addquote \ calc \ creatures \ define \ esolang \ etymology \ fortune \ google \ imdb \ minifind \ paste \ quote \ runfor \ strfile \ unstr \ url \ wolfram
20:31:20 <Asztal> !haskell putStrLn "What's an Asztal?"
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20:31:44 <Asztal> well, that highlighted me, but I don't know what setting does that
20:32:17 <oerjan> !haskell interact.const$"What's an oerjan?"
20:33:19 <oerjan> !haskell interact.const$"oerjan is an alien from the lesser Magellanic cloud"
20:33:21 <EgoBot> oerjan is an alien from the lesser Magellanic cloud
20:33:29 <fizzie> A manually set "/hilight oerjan" should probably match everywhere in line.
20:35:11 <fizzie> There's also the "-full" flag; "/hilight -full foo" highlights only where "foo" is a separate word. Though I guess in your case you won't get very many false positives from random words containing the substring "oerjan".
20:35:21 <AnMaster> oerjan, what about "oerjan" followed by space, but in the middle of the line
20:35:51 <oerjan> too late i turned on fizzie's suggestion
20:36:43 <oerjan> also not using -full probably helps catching the alternate nick too, etc.
20:38:36 <AnMaster> hm right, your nick isn't likely as a part of another word
20:39:01 <oerjan> hm that highlighted but with a different color
20:39:27 <oerjan> maybe that's just as well
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20:57:17 <ehird> 08:15:39 <Darth_Cliche> So, /another/ British person? Current British friends of mine: Kevan, ais523, Devenger (Scottish)
20:57:53 <ehird> 08:20:27 <Darth_Cliche> I have a friend from San Seriffe who codes Brainfuck
20:57:57 <ehird> I hate to break this to you.
20:59:20 <ehird> 08:35:52 <ais523> Darth_Cliche: that's a no-op
20:59:20 <ehird> 08:36:00 <ais523> and a joke program in the original article
20:59:32 <ehird> the adder believed it was legit
21:00:11 <ehird> 08:47:36 <ais523> and ehird's replay bot, although I've forgotten what that's called
21:00:37 <ehird> 08:49:32 <Hiato> ais523: I was going through my old maths books (for exams/SAT's) and I found a nice little box that said "Thanks to ais523" under which my teacher wrote "Is that a formula? Show substitution". Heh, just thought I'd let you know
21:01:14 <ehird> 08:51:31 <oklodok> augur: oklodok! <<< hi again augie!
21:02:37 <ehird> 12:16:11 <oerjan> <ais523> yep, also Malcom Ryan's australian
21:02:37 <ehird> 12:16:19 <oerjan> he's also an ancient agoran
21:02:38 <ehird> 12:16:28 <ais523> ooh, interesting
21:02:40 <ehird> 12:16:47 <oerjan> ("Blob")
21:02:42 <ehird> Blob is an esolanger?!
21:02:48 <ehird> I think we have our first non-human esolanger.
21:02:59 <ehird> 12:20:13 <oerjan> in fact have i have a vague recall that he may have been responsible for the special gender-neutral pronoun, as Blob didn't present as either male or female
21:03:15 <ehird> didn't agora used to use singular they before blob?
21:03:28 <ehird> 12:22:44 * oerjan stops channeling AnMaster
21:03:28 <ehird> 12:22:55 <AnMaster> oerjan, ?
21:03:29 <ehird> 12:22:59 <oerjan> and in so doing, inevitably causes another ?
21:03:34 <ehird> AnMaster: say "what?" in a while
21:03:54 <ehird> this is a momentous occasion
21:04:01 <oerjan> given blob joined within the first year of agora, if not even at the start...
21:05:46 <ehird> 12:30:51 <oerjan> HackEgo doesn't have haskell afaik
21:14:13 <ehird> "At a time when the public display and discourse about matters of faith have been under attack, a new poll indicates most Americans – 63 percent – believe the Bible is literally true and the Word of God."
21:15:58 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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21:28:29 <oerjan> also, 95% of statisticians believe most polls are flawed, and even if they aren't, the results are misrepresented. *ducks*
21:31:43 <Deewiant> And 95% of the time, they're right.
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21:47:55 <AnMaster> is it possible to store metadata in flac? Like composer and title?
21:48:14 <pikhq> Yes, though it depends on which container format you're using.
21:48:40 <pikhq> The FLAC container format has a limited metadata format that amounts to a subset of Ogg comments.
21:48:47 <AnMaster> as in, the file is called *.flac
21:48:53 <pikhq> The Ogg container format, obviously, has Ogg comments.
21:49:05 <pikhq> Yes, you can have metadata.
21:49:07 <AnMaster> /mnt/phoenix/musik/vivaldi/track13.flac: FLAC audio bitstream data, 16 bit, stereo, 44.1 kHz, 9150456 samples
21:49:28 <pikhq> That's FLAC in the FLAC container format.
21:49:47 <AnMaster> pikhq, confusing... Anyway I need composer, symphony and movement. That's all
21:49:55 <AnMaster> and some command line tool to set them
21:50:06 <AnMaster> since I wish to import this from data I have prepared already
21:50:25 <AnMaster> so I plan to write a short shell script to automate the adding
21:51:15 <pikhq> It's part of FLAC.
21:51:23 <ehird> AnMaster: Nobody uses ogg flac
21:51:25 <ehird> everyone uses flac flac
21:51:29 <ehird> and it uses ogg metadata
21:51:34 <ehird> well, same allowable stuff
21:51:44 <ehird> AnMaster: don't name it "track13", dammit
21:51:57 <AnMaster> ehird, it was cdparanoia who did
21:52:03 <pikhq> ehird: I've used it when storing some intermediates from video compression jobs in an Ogg container.
21:52:04 <AnMaster> then I converted the *.cdda to flac
21:52:09 <ehird> AnMaster: *"cdparanoia did that"
21:52:31 <ehird> "who did" is still a bad way to end a sentence
21:52:40 <ehird> "cdparanoia did that" is the only idiomatic way i can think of
21:52:44 <AnMaster> and so ehird corrects English again!
21:53:38 <AnMaster> ehird, I was playing along. So whoosh is wrong :P
21:54:23 <ehird> the language of butt lol ^.^
21:54:29 <ehird> i wish I could use plan9
21:54:36 <ehird> maybe I'll get a fileserver and put plan9 on it
21:54:53 <ehird> AnMaster: cuz i'm a filthy capitalist desktop user and i like lotses of applications.
21:55:05 <ehird> could run it as a fileserver though
21:55:10 <ehird> + maybe music server of some sort
21:55:26 <ehird> could run mpd on linux backed by a 9p filesystem, perhaps
21:56:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, have you used metaflac?
21:57:04 <ehird> AnMaster: it's trivial
21:57:07 <ehird> read the flac website
21:57:36 <ehird> pikhq: try quod libet as a tagger
21:58:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh well... I just can't find the option to add a tag, lots of other options, like adding replay-gain, copying from other file, adding picture(‽), and various other things
21:58:11 <ehird> although as a music player it lacks the fundamental feature of being an mpd client.
21:58:25 <ehird> AnMaster: use a gui editor, you'll be a lot calmer
21:58:27 <AnMaster> now to find a list of valid tags :)
21:58:29 <ehird> also, adding a picture = album art
21:58:31 <ehird> yes, it is supported
21:58:34 <ehird> AnMaster: ogg tags are freeform
21:58:36 <ehird> you have to know the conventions
21:58:45 <ehird> here's two: TITLE, ALBUM.
21:58:53 <AnMaster> ehird, for about 300 flac files from prepared tab separated files?
21:59:02 <ehird> ogg tags are freeform
21:59:04 <AnMaster> ehird, sure, if you do that with a GUI editor
21:59:12 <ehird> no, this is standard
21:59:14 <ehird> you use TITLE for the title
21:59:15 <AnMaster> ehird, surely there is some "usual convention"
21:59:16 <ehird> ALBUM for the album
21:59:19 <ehird> and I forget all the rest
21:59:24 <ehird> AnMaster: yes, I'm telling you FFS
21:59:41 <AnMaster> ehird, I need composer, symphony, movement. Album? What?
21:59:50 <ehird> ......you don't know what an album is?
22:00:04 <AnMaster> I meant, doesn't make sense here
22:00:05 <ehird> Anyway, google it.
22:00:20 <AnMaster> it would be like: "Complete Symphonies, Volume 3" or such
22:00:44 <ehird> AnMaster: i suggest peeking at the source of http://easytag.sourceforge.net/ and seeing what it does.
22:05:13 <ehird> how many cds are you ripping?
22:05:34 <AnMaster> ehird, ~30 with classical music iirc
22:05:58 <AnMaster> and they are all ripped and "flacced"
22:09:12 <ehird> AnMaster: You used flac --best, right?
22:09:35 <AnMaster> ehird, iirc yes. This was about 1-2 weeks ago I did the actual ripping and conversion...
22:09:59 <AnMaster> also I used "did" instead of "didn't" because I didn't want to follow the norm :P
22:10:18 <ehird> But "did like" is invalid.
22:10:48 <ehird> OK, not strictly invalid; incredibly unidiomatic.
22:10:53 <ehird> It sounds completely wrong.
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22:13:40 <AnMaster> http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html btw
22:14:34 <ehird> AnMaster: right, just invent your own TAGS for things like MOVEMENT
22:15:27 <AnMaster> ehird, freedb tends to use something like: "Opus 3 - Allegro" or similar for it's title entry
22:15:41 <ehird> Well, you could do that, but it's evil :P
22:15:52 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, sometimes it is in extra instead.
22:15:59 <AnMaster> ehird, if cd-info could fetch from it...
22:16:08 <ehird> Use another program?
22:16:16 <ehird> FreeDB has utterly crap results and is totally unmoderated; MusicBrainz is correct to the point of extreme pedanticism.
22:16:26 <ehird> Also, it has a program that can tag FLACs, iirc.
22:16:29 <AnMaster> ehird, command line one that can just dump the stuff to a text file for all tracks of the cd currently inserted?
22:16:34 <ehird> You don't need that.
22:16:38 <ehird> MusicBrainz analyzes the files
22:16:42 <ehird> to determine what track it is
22:16:49 <ehird> You can just set it on your directory of FLACs and it'll tag 'em all
22:17:20 <ehird> some sort of weird proprietary thing they licensed from a huge company nowadays I think
22:17:21 <AnMaster> and how would it work for lossy compression like mp3 or ogg
22:17:24 <ehird> but it's never wrong
22:17:27 <ehird> AnMaster: it's very magical
22:17:35 <ehird> I've never had it misidentify a file
22:17:39 <ehird> AnMaster: think so, yes
22:17:41 <ehird> their stuff is open source.
22:17:47 <ais523> issue now: AnMaster said hi, but it was sufficiently long ago that I'll be nickpinging him out of context if I reply
22:17:48 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/; go with Picard or sth
22:18:03 <AnMaster> ehird, since I don't like to upload a 16 MB *.flac
22:21:33 <ehird> AnMaster: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Classical_Music_FAQ :p
22:24:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, I tried easytags. How do you prevent it asking every time if I want to rename the file? I don't want to rename the file.
22:24:38 <AnMaster> can't find any setting for that
22:26:21 <ehird> AnMaster: Just use Picar
22:26:24 <pikhq> AnMaster: There's a "do this for every file" option in the checkbox.
22:26:27 <ehird> Set directory, click tag, get coffee.
22:26:31 <pikhq> Erm. In the dialog.
22:26:42 <AnMaster> pikhq, no? Are you using ~arch?
22:26:57 <pikhq> Well, I am for some things, but not that.
22:30:00 * pikhq needs to check out MusicBrainz.
22:30:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, also easytag can't add non-standard tags it seems?
22:31:35 <pikhq> AnMaster: Okay, so it's not all that great. Figure out MusicBrainz, and I think I'll do the same.
22:33:14 <ehird> pikhq: "Figure out"?
22:33:20 <ehird> Install picard. Point at directory. Snore.
22:34:02 <ehird> If not, use another client.
22:34:15 <AnMaster> would be useful to know *before* installing
22:34:25 <ehird> yeah, typing "emerge picard" is soo hard
22:34:32 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PicardDownload
22:34:34 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_Tagger
22:34:39 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_Tagger#Documentation_for_Users
22:34:50 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_FAQ
22:34:52 <ehird> Yes, it supports FLAC.
22:35:12 <ehird> So install it, open the root directory, click it, click "tag" or whatever the UI is these days, and it'll all be filled automatically.
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22:35:46 <ehird> AnMaster: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/How_To_Tag_Files_With_Picard
22:35:50 <ehird> an explanation of how to use the weird UI
22:36:01 <ehird> tl;dr — drag your directory to unmatched files. click cluster.
22:36:16 <ehird> click lookup on the "cluster" heading.
22:36:20 <AnMaster> ehird, wasn't it you who said that a GUI shouldn't need any documentation?
22:36:27 <ehird> check they work okay. press "save"
22:36:31 <ehird> AnMaster: it shouldn't
22:36:34 <ehird> but picard has a bad ui :)
22:36:43 <ehird> one-time operation though
22:36:49 <ehird> well, for the majority
22:36:54 <ehird> ripping a cd, maybe takes 30 seconds extra
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22:37:00 <ehird> worth it for the quality
22:40:12 <AnMaster> ehird, ripping a cd takes a few minutes...?
22:40:36 <ehird> I meant using picard adds 30sec time to ripping
22:40:50 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on if movement is in a separate field or not
22:41:29 <AnMaster> ehird, since I prefer my own planned format for the metadata
22:41:42 <ehird> Then MusicBrainz is not for you and you have serious OCD problems.
22:41:43 <AnMaster> ehird, where do I drag the files from btw?
22:42:11 <ehird> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22:42:22 <ehird> Anyway, if you're going to mangle the metadata, don't bother.
22:42:25 <ehird> It'll just be painful.
22:42:41 <ehird> 22:41 AnMaster: ehird, since I prefer my own planned format for the metadata
22:42:57 <ehird> Just hand-write them if you're going to do that.
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22:43:00 <AnMaster> ehird, I can use a script to fix it?
22:43:11 <AnMaster> ehird, as in, I already have it parsed in text files as I said above -_-
22:43:18 <ehird> I would seriously suggest against using MusicBrainz if you're going to change the metadata.
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22:44:46 <ehird> Because Picard's whole appeal is "drag, click, done", and updating the metadata will be a bitch.
22:44:52 <ehird> (Because it IS updated from time to time.)
22:45:06 <AnMaster> ehird, I could read it with metaflac and then rewrite it?
22:45:20 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't likely I will run picard more than once...
22:45:21 <ehird> I have an idea. Why not repeat what you said two lines ago?!
22:45:31 <AnMaster> the files will be moved afterwards soon again
22:45:50 <AnMaster> so if it tries to remember where the files were next time it starts it will have issues.
22:48:04 <AnMaster> err. after dragging the files to unmatched, I should click cluster right?
22:48:09 <AnMaster> so why doesn't anything happen
22:48:36 <ehird> AnMaster: highlight unmatched
22:48:38 <ehird> then click cluster
22:49:07 <ehird> Find out which step of http://musicbrainz.org/doc/How_To_Tag_Files_With_Picard you deviated from and undeviate.
22:49:10 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe it doesn't know the cd? if so, why not say it instead of just doing nothing
22:49:11 <ehird> Wait for Picard to process the files (the names will turn from grey to black) and then click on the cluster button in the toolbar to cluster files into album clusters.
22:49:19 <ehird> AnMaster: you did drag your whole library right?
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22:49:42 <AnMaster> ehird, one cd. since it is sorted in the file system as one directory per cd
22:49:53 <ehird> Yes, and they both have a common parent, I would assume.....
22:50:25 <ehird> I nominate your ethos and organizational structure for the "Least Tenable To MusicBrainz" award 2009.
22:50:36 <AnMaster> yes it does, that is the "kraus" for the composer. Like this: /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol1 /mnt/phoenix/musik/kraus/vol2 and so on
22:52:02 <AnMaster> ehird, clicking "cluster" is just a nop
22:52:25 <ehird> Are the files gray or black?
22:52:35 <ehird> You did something wrong.
22:52:58 <AnMaster> then why did I do something wrong?
22:53:08 <ehird> Read the file I linked, follow it word for wrod.
22:53:20 <ehird> No you didn't, otherwise it would have worked.
22:53:21 <AnMaster> Under 'View' enable 'File Browser'.
22:53:22 <AnMaster> Select a directory or files and drag them to the Unmatched Files folder.
22:53:26 <AnMaster> Wait for Picard to process the files (the names will turn from grey to black) and then click on the cluster button in the toolbar to cluster files into album clusters.
22:53:34 <AnMaster> they were black right from the start
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22:54:09 <AnMaster> ehird, are they supposed to be black right away?
22:54:19 <ehird> Do you have a 400mhz processor?
22:55:09 <AnMaster> anyway, cluster does completely nothing
22:56:31 <ehird> Do they not move to the Clusters folder?
22:56:48 <ehird> Buy a new computer that isn't broken.
22:57:16 <AnMaster> my conclusion: picard is either shit or has a very shitty UI.
22:57:32 <ehird> You did something wrong, or your installation of it is broken, or your system is broken.
22:57:40 <ehird> Or you've run into the AnMaster-is-using-me bug.
22:57:55 <ehird> I find that extremely unlikely, as it is both popular and I have used it personally.
22:58:07 <ehird> It is unlikely that everyone else is just hallucinating it working perfectly.
22:58:20 <ehird> You prescribe too much value to your anecdotal experience.
22:58:41 <ehird> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uoM-PdJhtmk
22:58:46 <ehird> Maybe this screencast would help.
22:58:48 <AnMaster> ehird, want a screenshot after and before clicking cluster? They would be the same, pixel by pixel
23:00:12 <AnMaster> ehird, all examples have files which already contain *some* metadata it seems?
23:00:20 <ehird> utterly irrelevant
23:00:20 <AnMaster> but in this case the files contain no metadata whatsoever
23:00:33 <ehird> Just click Lookup before Cluster, it seems.
23:00:37 <ehird> CD Lookup, that is.
23:00:41 <ehird> CD Lookup → Cluster → Lookup.
23:00:49 <AnMaster> ehird, "http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PicardDocumentation#Basic_Picard_Documentation"
23:01:34 <AnMaster> ehird, cd lookup is greyed out however. Should I have the CD inserted while doing that? Can't it figure it out from the files alone...
23:01:45 <ehird> Uh, highlight the files?
23:01:59 <ehird> i mean individually btw
23:02:04 <AnMaster> ehird, grayed out and tried it
23:02:16 <ehird> AnMaster: is Lookup grayed out?
23:02:35 <ehird> Press Lookup, then
23:02:48 <AnMaster> ehird, lookup says "no matches found"
23:03:03 <AnMaster> how useful. freedb has them btw
23:03:04 <ehird> How obscure is this performance exactly
23:03:18 <ais523> what is this conversation even about?
23:03:18 <ehird> Look it up manually on http://musicbrainz.org/; ur obviously doin it rong.
23:03:37 <AnMaster> ehird, Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - City of London Sinfonia - Virgo Records - Recorded 1991
23:03:44 <ehird> ais523: AnMaster is using every failing he has with a piece of software I recommended in an attempt to help him out to yell "fail" at me and call the software shit.
23:04:15 <AnMaster> ehird, the fact that it doesn't seem to work seems relevant when deciding if something works or not...
23:05:04 <AnMaster> hah. it managed to match some of the other files. To completely wrong CDs. Like: Das Licht der Phantasie (disc 1) - Terry Pratchett
23:05:22 <AnMaster> ehird, complete and utter fail if it misidentifies instead of saying "not known"
23:05:26 <ehird> You're certainly doing it wrong.
23:05:32 <ehird> FreeDB is the one that misidentifies and returns wrong tags all the time.
23:05:50 <ehird> Yes, because you live in opposites world.
23:06:38 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ehird, Vivaldi - The Four Seasons - City of London Sinfonia - Virgo Records - Recorded 1991 <-- I tried searching for various parts of that. But I can't figure out their search form thingy...
23:06:45 <AnMaster> so I'm not sure if I searched wrong
23:07:04 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/search.html
23:07:11 <ehird> Just use free text.
23:07:23 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/artist/ad79836d-9849-44df-8789-180bbc823f3c.html
23:07:25 <AnMaster> ah, it said "textsearch" for me in the url
23:08:01 <AnMaster> ehird, the album I have is not there
23:08:02 <ehird> Then grep "four seasons".
23:08:14 <ehird> AnMaster: Then it's so obscure it barely exists...
23:08:17 <AnMaster> ehird, I know it is released 1991
23:08:39 <AnMaster> ehird, do I need to create an account? If so fuck it, freedb has an entry for it.
23:09:17 <ehird> AnMaster: That's funny; you chastise me for not reporting bugs to projects' BugZilla, which has an awful interface and requires registration with an email and you can't even pick your own password.
23:09:24 <ehird> Yet a simple registration process to add to MusicBrainz is too much?
23:09:29 <ehird> You truly are a fine hypocrite.
23:09:34 <AnMaster> ehird, ok, it manages to identify 5 tracks out of 15 on another cd btw.
23:09:41 <ais523> ehird: I'm relatively sure you can pick your own BugZilla password
23:09:46 <ehird> ais523: only post-registration
23:09:59 <ais523> ehird: yes, that makes sense
23:10:03 <ais523> it's basically the same as using a confirm code
23:10:09 <ais523> just the confirm code goes in the password field
23:10:27 <ehird> AnMaster: Right, and other OSs don't have the problems I had with Arch.
23:10:32 <ehird> Yet you still told me to report them.
23:10:52 <ais523> I like to report bugs anyway
23:11:00 <ais523> if nothing else, it gives me information on which projects respond to bugs quickly
23:11:15 <AnMaster> anyway, why can't they just import everything from freedb and merge it with their own index
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23:11:26 <ehird> Because FreeDB's index is broken, mistagged and always wrong.
23:11:32 <ehird> it was created BECAUSE freedb is intolerable
23:11:48 <AnMaster> ehird, formatting for tags is inconsistent yes. But apart from that it works perfectly
23:12:02 <ehird> Yes, BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN THE MOST INCORRECT OPPOSITES WORLD I'VE EVER HEARD OF!
23:12:31 <AnMaster> ehird, I have used it for over 30 cds, it reported everything correctly, sometimes small typos yes, and sometimes inconsistent naming of tracks and so on
23:12:39 <AnMaster> but at least it was always roughly correct.
23:12:47 <ehird> I'm not going to talk to you because you're patently ignoring what I say.
23:13:03 <AnMaster> ehird, why does musicbrainz like to give a completely wrong result instead of saying "not known"?
23:13:13 <ehird> IT DOESN'T! FREEDB DOES!
23:13:35 <ehird> You generalise your stupid individual experience — that has never, ever failed to be incorrect and highly abnormal — to THE GENERAL CASE, because you're an IDIOT who doesn't understand statistics and has a penchant for breaking everything you use. Fuck off!
23:13:48 <AnMaster> ehird, it actually works on one of the newer cds
23:13:55 <AnMaster> but none of the cds older than 1995
23:14:13 <AnMaster> but most cds I have are from 1992 or older so...
23:14:31 <ehird> It works perfectly on my CDs from 1969 onwards.
23:14:36 <AnMaster> this one is from 1985 for example
23:16:01 <AnMaster> ehird, care to look at this screenshot for example: http://omploader.org/vMXhucQ
23:16:28 <AnMaster> ehird, that is after using lookup
23:16:37 <ehird> Wow, you truly do lack comprehension of anything.
23:16:53 <ehird> I'm going to talk in alien language now, because it'll actually improve my communication.
23:16:54 <AnMaster> ehird, how does it not mistag here?
23:17:06 <ehird> Gab flubb dirpmoglaaaaaaa tubadinoshçtok.
23:17:09 <AnMaster> <ehird> IT DOESN'T! FREEDB DOES!
23:17:29 <ehird> Qüoỏnt’glubakk no idioten.
23:17:41 <AnMaster> ais523, can you make ehird understand the issue? He seems dense today
23:18:17 <AnMaster> it fails for kraus too, giving wrong results
23:18:22 <AnMaster> maybe it just fails at flac. not sure
23:18:26 <AnMaster> don't have any non-flac to try with
23:18:28 <ehird> ais523: If you're in the mood for honoring requests about arguments, please explain AnMaster what generalization means, and why "MusicBrainz isn't the one that mistags, FreeDB is" does not mean a total logical absolute, and how he's generalizing a few individual experiences (stupidly) to a whole, even though they're highly abnormal.
23:18:34 <ehird> That would be nice.
23:19:06 <AnMaster> ehird, in my experience, freedb works better than this picard at least
23:19:16 <AnMaster> Album: [couldn't load album 5f26e407-763b-43f0-904a-0bff110ce3c7]
23:19:25 <AnMaster> maybe they are having some server issue atm?
23:19:37 <AnMaster> and that was a rather common cd. Enya
23:21:12 <AnMaster> ehird, using "scan" works better it seems than "lookup"
23:21:25 <AnMaster> ehird, what is the difference, and why not tell me that that was the issue instead
23:21:36 <ehird> Because I'm not a Picard expert, I just use it and it works fine.
23:21:37 <AnMaster> it still misidentifies some, but not as many
23:21:38 <ehird> You just break everything.
23:21:50 <AnMaster> ehird, do your files have any metadata in them before?
23:22:12 <ehird> It's been a while, but Picard hasn't changed since then.
23:24:56 <AnMaster> ehird, cluster directly works if there is already metadata in the files, not otherwise
23:30:39 <AnMaster> "Instead of using the above release-oriented and metadata-dependent lookup; Picard can try and tag your files 1-by-1 based on their AudioFingerprint. If you select a set of files in the left-hand pane and click "Scan", Picard will calculate an AudioFingerprint for your files and query MusicBrainz to find a Track that matches the PUID located from this fingerprint."
23:30:52 <AnMaster> reading the manual helps a bit, it is still missing one of them though
23:31:05 <AnMaster> however. Your misdirections certainly didn't help ehird.
23:31:34 <ehird> Misdirections. I was trying to fucking mislead you. You really think that don't you? You think I'm some sort of fucking MusicBrainz Picard expert, willingly leading you into the caverns of failure.
23:31:47 <AnMaster> unintentional misdirections of course
23:31:59 <ehird> AN UNINTENTIONAL MISDIRECTION IS NOT!
23:35:53 <AnMaster> ehird, the result is the same whatever you call it
23:36:10 <ehird> No, misdirection has to be willful.
23:36:33 <AnMaster> ehird, using easytag + freedb however also adds the year and genre, picard only sets title/artist/album
23:36:48 <AnMaster> ehird, at least for this example...
23:37:16 <AnMaster> ehird, http://musicbrainz.org:80/track/137a39a5-7afa-43ce-94ad-12995f07c6c5.html?tport=8000
23:37:44 <ehird> is part of release http://musicbrainz.org/release/7b877a93-d7ce-4467-95b1-c13a194d5e4d.html
23:38:03 <AnMaster> ehird, different dates for the different tracks though
23:38:11 <AnMaster> some recorded in 1984, some in 1985
23:38:25 <AnMaster> ehird, according to the cd cover
23:38:34 <AnMaster> oh and typing it in manually would have been faster...
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23:41:54 <AnMaster> ehird, another thing that confused it: a re-release of a LP as a CD with some new bonus tracks. it couldn't decide which cd to pick from...
23:42:11 <ehird> You live in some alternate universe where musicbrainz is simplistic and inferior to the accurate FreeDB.
23:42:13 <AnMaster> it ended up picking from a total of 4 cds.
23:42:26 <AnMaster> ehird, it seems to be the case for the music I have...
23:43:28 <AnMaster> http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/b964c445-4bbd-485c-8b64-67dc43a32957.html?tport=8000
23:43:29 <AnMaster> http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/a30b65a1-89c4-4820-b327-592821eda5a9.html?tport=8000
23:44:18 <AnMaster> ehird, it ends up identifying some tracks from the first, and some from the latter. And they are all from that album yes. But there is only one of them afaik.
23:44:29 <ehird> You didn't cluster them.
23:44:34 <ehird> If you did, it would restrict to one release.
23:44:42 <AnMaster> ehird, I couldn't because THERE WAS NO PREVIOUS METADATA IN THE FILES.
23:44:47 <ehird> You can cluster manually, retard.
23:44:58 <AnMaster> ehird, not according to the docs
23:45:09 <ehird> AnMaster: Drag, drop. And if it knows what CD it's from, it WILL cluster.
23:45:16 <ehird> You just have to look it up first.
23:45:18 <AnMaster> ehird, right. But those two are the same cd
23:45:29 <AnMaster> so it is equally well either of them
23:45:37 <ehird> Not retarded; different release variations.
23:45:59 <ehird> The latter is Japan, as you can see.
23:46:03 <ehird> The former is UK, Germany, Canada and US
23:46:09 <ehird> AnMaster: Look at the bottom.
23:46:15 <ehird> MusicBrainz separates all discs that differ.
23:46:17 <AnMaster> ehird, um. the stuff on the cd is exactly the same right?
23:46:27 <AnMaster> ehird, or do you mean the cover differ?
23:46:29 <ehird> Otherwise the disc ID would be the same.
23:46:46 <AnMaster> http://musicbrainz.org:80/album/b964c445-4bbd-485c-8b64-67dc43a32957.html?tport=8000 lists several disc ids
23:46:58 <ehird> They differ, almost certainly.
23:47:35 <AnMaster> ah right, one has a track "Oriel Window" too
23:47:47 <ehird> There you go, then.
23:48:04 <AnMaster> ehird, still it decided that one of the files belonged to none of the disks. It hated my track 02
23:48:13 <ehird> Just cluster 'em and do a lookup.
23:48:21 <ehird> I dunno how it's breaking so much for you.
23:48:25 <AnMaster> ehird, can't cluster before scan
23:48:29 <AnMaster> scan is the only one that works
23:48:32 <ehird> Scan, cluster, then scan.
23:49:18 <AnMaster> ehird, also it still refuses to know that vivaldi cd
23:49:35 <ehird> Add it to the DB so that MusicBrainz has more bizarrely obscure things.
23:49:58 <ehird> Then there's been a mistake.
23:50:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I would have to learn their format.
23:50:13 <AnMaster> ehird, and write it all in manually
23:50:20 <AnMaster> easier to just use freedb for that one.
23:50:21 <ehird> It has a web interface and a specific wiki page for classical music.
23:50:35 <ehird> AnMaster: it is also easy not to report bugs. do you really want to be a hypocrite of such high caliber?
23:50:47 <AnMaster> ehird, it is easy to report bugs
23:51:09 <ehird> go through tedious bugzilla registration. fill in 500 fields, most of which you don't know. give detailed description.
23:51:28 <ehird> go through simple musicbrainz registration. skim over classical music guidelines. fill in just a few fields, which you know by virtue of having the cd.
23:51:30 <AnMaster> ehird, once you learn one bugzilla you learn them all mostly
23:51:39 <ehird> the latter is distinctly simpler.
23:51:43 <AnMaster> and most bugzillas has some "wizard" variant of reporting
23:52:22 <AnMaster> while it's UI is not very good either, it is not as confusing as that of picard
23:52:27 <ehird> AnMaster: Then don't ever fucking get holier-than-thou at me when I have a problem, whine, and don't report it as a bug.
23:52:36 <AnMaster> ehird, also it knows one of the four volumes of kraus music I have.
23:52:54 <ehird> You have great skill at ignoring those very lines that show you to be a hypocrite.
23:53:29 <AnMaster> ehird, a difference is that all bugzillas have basically the same interface
23:53:37 <AnMaster> other bug trackers may not of course..
23:53:43 <AnMaster> anyway, how hard is it to register?
23:53:50 <ehird> all musicbrainz have the same interface.
23:53:59 <ehird> AnMaster: funny that. bugzillas require your email.
23:54:00 <AnMaster> ehird, there is only one, so not a valid argument
23:54:02 <ehird> http://musicbrainz.org/user/register.html
23:54:04 <ehird> no email required.
23:54:18 <AnMaster> ehird, can you tag it from inside picard?
23:54:26 <AnMaster> or do you need to use messy web browser?
23:54:31 <ehird> No. Picard is a program to tag your music library. There is a simple, clean web interface.
23:54:40 <ehird> Guess what? BugZilla has a crufty web interface!
23:54:53 <ehird> God, and you call my a hypocrite.
23:54:53 <AnMaster> ehird, yes it does. I use a command line frontend called bugz
23:55:08 <ehird> Write a fucking command line interface to MB then, you shithead.
23:57:46 <AnMaster> ehird, funny thing: the times listed on the back of the cd doesn't match the actual track lengths exactly
23:58:01 <AnMaster> 7:01 says the cd cover, 7:05 says the computer
23:58:16 <ehird> Meh. I have CDs that have two tracks' lengths mixed, and some with misspellings of the track titles.
23:58:28 <ehird> All three from the same band; I wonder if it's a secret code.
23:58:40 <AnMaster> Naxos is a major label for classical music
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23:58:48 <ehird> I mean major major label.
23:58:56 <ehird> As in "is mainly known for releasing pop music" label.
23:59:11 <AnMaster> don't think I have any of that :P