00:00:05 Let's see... Universal Records and Warner Bros. 00:00:16 ok fun, freedb have three entries for this. All have slight misspellings, but the average would be correct... 00:00:24 *has 00:00:39 right 00:00:56 [on Haskell caba[ 00:00:58 cabal] 00:01:01 "HA HA, I thought this article would be about a bunch of crazed fanatics trying to make Ubuntu dependent on Haskell. 00:01:01 Unlike Mono. 00:01:03 http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono" 00:01:07 -!- M0ny has quit. 00:01:09 1/10 F----- would not be trolled again 00:02:17 musicbrainz has nothing on that cd however 00:02:38 hmm... would Ubuntu depending on GHC bring out the same people who get angry at Mono dependencies, I wonder? 00:02:48 or just the people who get angry at anything depending on GHC because it's so hard to compile? 00:03:09 I don't think GHC has any supposed patent problems........................ 00:03:17 Or indeed any corporate interests. 00:03:27 yes, but it's from Microsoft!!!!!!1one1 00:03:29 Unless you think the Industrial Haskell Group is an evil illuminati. 00:03:33 ais523: it's not even that 00:03:41 some of the contributors happen to work for microsoft 00:03:45 ghc isn't even their work 00:03:50 and haskell and ghc have existed long before that 00:03:57 yes, but you know how far people can take this sort of thing 00:04:27 MONO: NOW YOUR FREE SOFTWARE GNU/LINUX OPERATING SYSTEM CAN GET STDS TOO!! 00:04:29 ais523, is ubuntu going to require ghc as part of the core/system/whatever set of packages? 00:04:32 —Stallman 00:04:40 AnMaster: Reading comprehension: 0% 00:05:04 ehird, I wasn't sure if it is was something actually happening, or a "what if" scenario 00:05:29 -!- immibis has joined. 00:05:29 Considering GHC is on 6.8.2 and 6.12 is almost out, I very much doubt it will happen any time soon. 00:05:53 AnMaster: it's very unlikely, Ubuntu hardly ever puts compilers in core 00:05:59 it ships with gcc, but only to compile kernel modules 00:06:04 hm 00:06:10 it's missing all the headers apart from kernel headers in a default install, for instance 00:06:15 ais523: hey, Python is a bytecode compiler! 00:06:40 [[More than 500 staff at Keihin Electric Express Railway are expected to be subjected to daily face scans by "smile police" bosses. ]] 00:06:43 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/5757194/Workers-have-daily-smile-scans.html 00:06:44 ehird: the exception's interps for scripting langs, whether they're implemented in terms of compilers or some other ways 00:06:52 Doubleplusgood! 00:07:00 Hmm, Brave New World might be a more appropriate reference. 00:09:20 * ais523 tries to figure out why 'Yahoo! Mail' writes its own name in single quotes 00:09:27 generally speaking, web pages don't quote their own names... 00:09:33 Because it's only pretending to be Yahoo! Mail? 00:09:46 * immibis wonders why GMail is still in beta after this long 00:09:49 Yahoo! "Mail" 00:10:02 immibis: the google engineers get a cheap laugh out of it? :-) 00:10:13 i remember in 2004, when we did scrabble for an invite, we did! 00:10:16 Maybe you're supposed to shout 'Yahoo! Mail!' when you get mail? 00:10:18 uphill! BOTH WAYS! 00:10:26 at least there's no snow 00:11:40 -!- CESSMASTER has quit ("Computer has gone to sleep"). 00:13:06 ehird: By "major label", you mean "member of the RIAA". 00:13:20 No, I mean "major label" :P 00:13:24 There's only like 4, and they have a *lot* of subsidiaries. 00:13:27 There are many non-major labels in the RIAA. 00:13:32 hm 00:13:33 really? 00:13:38 pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_labels 00:13:41 there are far more. 00:13:41 Those are subsidiaries of the major 4. 00:13:48 not just subsidaries 00:13:51 those are marked hierarchically 00:13:57 Ah. 00:14:11 I suspect the label on my T-shirt is not a member of the RIAA 00:14:15 but then again, it's hardly major 00:14:20 Oh, hey. That listing is from the RIAA website. 00:14:28 Which is known to be a blatant bunch of lies. 00:14:28 ais523: wait, that's a joke right? :P 00:14:58 Oh, that lists the lies. 00:15:00 Never mind. 00:15:11 ehird: yes, in a way that expresses my annoyance at people redefining words to mean something else 00:15:22 ais523: are you fuckin' serious? :) 00:15:31 damn those kids and their modern musicajig! 00:15:42 The term "record label" originally referred to the circular label in the center of a vinyl record that prominently displayed the manufacturer's name, along with other information.[1] 00:15:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:15:46 so it definitely is directly related. 00:15:59 it's just the elision that annoys me 00:16:13 sort of, it's like taking a specific sort of something, say "high-level language" 00:16:17 and abbreviating it to just "language" 00:16:19 please, ais523. 00:16:20 language evolves. 00:16:24 that's just really misleading, and ridiculous 00:16:26 it's called context 00:16:39 I know; I just don't like languages to have to rely on context 00:16:48 ok, so it's normally obvious what someone means 00:16:53 it still takes more thought to parse, though 00:16:57 ais523: are you serious? even lojban relies on context 00:17:03 okay 00:17:07 you want to exponentially inflate the length of every utterance? 00:17:09 ehird: I'm not saying it shouldn't exist at all, it's useful 00:17:23 I'm just saying that context is probably used a bit more than it ought to be atm 00:17:28 out of 8 cds tried so far, muicbrainz had 4. 00:17:31 so 50% success rate. 00:17:50 freedb had all, but not as nicely formatted track titles and such. 00:17:58 often several variants with misspellings 00:18:03 AnMaster: your experience is highly abnormal. do not generalize it. 00:18:16 so I guess, use musicbrainz if possible, fallback on freedb 00:18:32 how about use musicbrainz or contribute?! 00:18:36 ehird, translation: it isn't pop or mainstream 00:18:41 no 00:18:45 i listen to plenty of obscure music 00:18:49 musicbrainz is incredibly comprehensive 00:18:53 ehird: AnMaster: both of you have a point here 00:18:53 ehird, maybe. If I have time to. 00:19:12 what with the long instructions for formatting the classical music entries 00:19:21 ais523, oh? 00:19:22 i'm terribly curious where this busy AnMaster time goes to. he never seems to do much. 00:19:27 sounds like an excuse to me. 00:19:36 ehird: he may have a life completely separate from this channel 00:19:37 many people do 00:19:42 ehird, atm? Reading up on theory for driving certificate 00:19:50 that is where most of my time goes currently. 00:19:52 ais523: he must carry around a portable IRC client at all times, then. 00:20:12 ehird: no, he has a bouncer 00:20:14 (well, I do too; it's called an iphone :P) 00:20:19 ais523: i'm talking about talking 00:20:36 I often live this "separate life" in the same room 00:20:43 so I'm always within reach of the computer 00:20:43 while talking. on irc. 00:20:47 even when doing other stuff 00:20:50 which is clearly a time that is possible to use musicbrainz too 00:20:55 not always of course, but quite often 00:21:58 ais523, what was this point we both had? 00:22:23 nothing, AnMaster. you're 100% right. 00:22:24 anyway, the more mainstream classical music is indeed on musicbrainz 00:22:25 utterly 00:22:33 AnMaster: ehird's point is that most people don't have trouble, yours is that it's inappropriate for the way you use things 00:22:45 ais523, right. That is what I have been trying to say 00:22:51 yet ehird refuses to accept it. 00:23:02 00:22 ehird: nothing, AnMaster. you're 100% right. 00:22 ehird: utterly 00:23:05 AnMaster: ehird's pedantically making correct but irrelvant statements 00:23:05 wtf? 00:23:12 i'm agreeing absolutely 00:23:25 ehird, didn't you forget the "~" 00:23:29 ehird: I know, but you're doing it in a way that makes you look like you're disagreeing 00:23:33 nope, AnMaster 00:23:37 which can only possibly count as AnMaster-baiting 00:23:44 ehird, I don't believe you. 00:23:56 okay, so if i disagree with you you argue 00:23:58 if I agree with you 00:24:04 you argue about whether I agree with you 00:24:08 err. I lost track there. 00:25:12 anyway, my goal is reached. All the music is tagged, When all 30 cds were done, only 14 needed to be done with freedb due to musicbrainz lacking it. 00:25:16 s/it/them/ 00:25:26 so a bit less than half 00:25:56 I haven't ripped the other ~60 classical music cds yet... 00:26:09 http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/8ypih/this_is_awesome_a_personal_ad_in_graph_form/c0auucv Wow. It's undownmoddable. 00:26:17 ehird: in what way? 00:26:24 ais523: You can't upvote it or downvote it. 00:26:29 why? bug? 00:26:30 There are no buttons. 00:26:32 Who knows? 00:27:36 ehird, there are buttons there? 00:27:44 No up or down vote arrows. 00:27:46 oh not there 00:27:50 it says deleted? 00:27:55 The username is. 00:28:06 ah 00:28:16 maybe that broke it somehow 00:28:28 it usually doesn't 00:28:29 very odd 00:29:18 ehird, other issue with both freedb and musicbrainz 00:29:29 this cd was released with the same disc but two different covers 00:30:03 one in Swedish (NAXOS 8.554777S) and one in English (NAXOS 8.554777) 00:30:06 I have the former 00:30:13 so I want the track titles correct for that ;P 00:30:19 of course, there is no way to solve it. 00:30:23 blame the artist for multi-naming shit 00:30:29 kraftwerk are worse 00:30:29 ehird, translated titles 00:30:33 they made ENTIRE NEW VOCALS for the songs 00:30:37 in both german and english 00:30:41 for the two markets 00:30:48 ehird, but with fingerprinting you can tell them apart 00:30:49 literally, translate the lyrics 00:31:00 AnMaster: i know, but it means there's two albums for every name! 00:31:08 while here the actual cd doesn't differ at all 00:31:26 just it says "Sinfonia i ciss-moll" instead of "Symphony in C-sharp minor" 00:31:28 I wonder if they translated Autobahn. 00:31:56 "We drive drive drive on the motorway" just doesn't have the same ring to it. 00:32:03 "Overture in D minor" vs. "Uvertyr i d-moll" 00:32:30 for music: moll = minor, dur = major 00:32:47 hmm it seems to be "We're driving driving driving on the motorway" 00:32:50 oh and for "sharp" in music we add "iss" or "ess". 00:33:05 well okay it's actually "Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn" but I'm translatin' with the help of the interwebs. 00:37:36 ehird: 00:37:40 "Filling in your e-mail address is completely optional. However if you don't fill it in, the editing features [1] of the MusicBrainz service will not be available to you." 00:37:41 err right 00:37:47 ehird, -_- 00:37:51 Well, fill it in then. 00:37:57 I assume it's to do with the moderation service. 00:38:13 I would advise you to quit complaining, it's not like BugZilla is any better. 00:38:53 ehird, true. 00:39:09 ehird, still tl;dr for that classcial music formatting faq 00:39:30 You have the attention span of a /b/tard. 00:39:46 ehird: Incorrect. 00:39:50 ehird, nah, Slereah is worse 00:39:53 AnMaster: http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/Classical_Style_Guide is this page really too long for you? 00:39:56 /b/tards have more attention. 00:39:57 it's like 3 fucking screens 00:40:04 3.5, I just measured 00:40:15 The current official one 00:40:15 http://musicbrainz.org/doc/ClassicalStyleGuide 00:40:17 is the same length 00:40:25 It's really simple. 00:40:41 ehird, ~5 screens 00:40:42 :P 00:40:48 I also just checked 00:40:54 Buy a new monitor and an attention span battery. 00:41:02 slightly more than 5 in fact 00:41:08 Don't you read Terry Pratchett? 00:41:17 ehird, I do read that yes. 00:41:20 His books are quite long. Indeed, hundreds of screens. 00:41:26 ehird, pages.... 00:41:27 Yet you cannot manage 5. 00:41:36 AnMaster: durr it is impossible to transfer information from books hurr. 00:41:43 ehird, due to lack of interest. 00:42:23 ehird, what are these "puids"? 00:42:42 Puppies + druids. 00:43:01 And a second in Google gives: http://musicbrainz.org/doc/PUID 00:46:03 ehird: wow, you type fast if you can google that fast 00:46:21 Yes, I can. 00:54:43 -!- Judofyr has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:01:03 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 01:01:39 http://imagechan.com/images/4a1f16e12a8f69e53ef19798b535eeb1.png 01:01:47 bye 01:03:58 -!- inurinternet has joined. 01:04:48 ehird, editing on musicbrainz, have you done it yourself? 01:05:11 ehird, if not, are you aware of that it is like picard... completely backwards UI 01:06:59 especially to add releases 01:07:04 I can't figure out how to do it 01:08:28 AnMaster: I think ehird's gone to bed 01:08:34 right 01:14:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:19:58 ehird, for two of those cds the "puid" things were missing from the db, so it couldn't auto identify them 01:20:13 ehird, the other are genuinely missing however 01:21:46 -!- CESSMASTER has joined. 01:37:13 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:56:14 -!- coppro has joined. 02:25:55 does anyone know of a good wad editor for windows? 02:28:23 for doom 1 wads 03:25:58 god, stop having talked already 03:30:11 ehird: Gab flubb dirpmoglaaaaaaa tubadinoshçtok. <<< glio eglo flog balg nlo mlog 03:31:43 help help they're speaking in tongues 03:36:39 night 03:36:49 AnMaster: isn't it 4am where you are? 03:36:58 04:36 yes 03:36:59 well, 4:36? 03:37:00 AnMaster: ehird, atm? Reading up on theory for driving certificate <<< i don't believe a human can learn to drive a car as stably as people do. 03:37:03 sleep pattern broken 03:37:08 same here 03:37:14 that's one of the things that make me feel soliptistic 03:37:44 I finally tagged the music perfectly 03:39:31 i finally read the logs 03:39:38 why are you awake at 5 03:39:41 oh 03:39:43 right 03:39:46 you didn't sleep yet 03:39:52 also not 5 03:39:57 because sweden 03:39:59 4 03:40:09 except closer to 5 now 03:41:24 i just woke up, went to sleep at 21:00 03:41:31 or maybe a few seconds later 03:42:06 something like 23-5 would be nice 03:42:06 Go and sleep another 5 hours :P 03:42:26 i slept 15 hours just the other night 03:42:44 also there was a 1 hour sleep without artificial interruption 03:42:54 my brain has issues i think 03:44:44 oklodok! :D 03:44:54 ! :DD 03:46:43 * pikhq starts Project Eulering, in Haskell 03:46:54 main = print $ find (and . (\x -> [x `mod` y == 0 | y <- [1..20]])) [1..] 03:47:02 That's a... Pretty slow piece of code there. 03:47:59 !help 03:47:59 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 03:48:02 !help languages 03:48:02 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 03:48:17 !haskell main = print $ find (and . (\x -> [x `mod` y == 0 | y <- [1..20]])) [1..] 03:48:27 tell me when you surpass me 03:48:39 maybe i'll get interested again 03:48:42 in euler 03:48:47 "find" undefined? 03:48:48 That'll be a while. 03:48:58 Oh, right. import Data.List 03:49:18 i doubt i've played more than a week or two 03:49:29 well i guess if you don't know haskell 03:49:34 that well 03:49:34 ./project5 295.32s user 3.41s system 94% cpu 5:17.56 total 03:49:40 i don't know whether you do 03:49:50 I'm using it as an excuse to code more Haskell. 03:50:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:50:06 Well, returns the right answer (embedded in a Maybe). 03:50:41 a got into it because of this other dude, but i think he's in finnish top10 nowadays, i just didn't know enough math back then 03:52:05 Of course, I could have just done some smarter math. XD 03:52:05 also because python is 100 times slower than most languages, some problems are substantially harder for it 03:53:01 you could've 03:53:14 that's a pen and paper problem 03:54:04 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 03:54:36 -!- MizardX has joined. 03:54:36 Yes, but it was a Haskell one-liner. 03:55:18 sure, i was just agreeing with you about coulding to have done smarter math. 03:55:38 (sic) 03:56:17 i mean i also agree there's no need to do smarter math, because it's a one-liner anyway 03:56:27 Anyways. 03:56:43 First few have been trivial. 03:57:19 Project 4 was a whole 9 lines. ... Because I needed to define a function to test if something was a palindrome or not. 03:58:59 i think i made some sort of merging generators thing for 4 03:59:45 or maybe i just wrote some sorta one-liner because it's #4, and i'm recalling some other prob 04:01:55 main = print $ last $ sort . nub $ filter (palindromeP . show) $ [x*y | x <- [100..999], y <- [100..999]] 04:02:17 palindromeP is an exercise for the reader, and I'm thinking last $ sort . nub $ filter is dumb. 04:02:34 !help userinterps 04:02:34 userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 04:02:40 !userinterps 04:02:41 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 04:03:07 !swedish The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. 04:03:08 Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:29 !yodawn Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:38 !yodawg Zee qooeeck broon fux joomps oofer zee lezy dug. Bork Bork Bork! 04:03:39 Unknown function: Z 04:06:48 !userinterps 04:06:48 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc drawl dubya echo ehird fudd google graph gregor hello jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 04:07:20 !google test 04:07:21 http://google.com/search?q=test 04:07:30 well that was useful...not... 04:23:17 !warez wat 04:23:17 w4t 04:30:33 !sffffffffedeesh test 04:30:33 test 04:30:45 !sffffffffedeesh Hello people, I am swedish. 04:30:45 Hellu peuple-a, I em svedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:06 !swedish Hellu peuple-a, I em svedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:06 Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:16 !sweedish Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:21 !swedish Helloo peoople-a-a, I im sfedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:22 Helluu peuuple-a-a-a, I im sffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:31 !swedish Helluu peuuple-a-a-a, I im sffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:31:31 Helloooo peoooople-a-a-a-a, I im sffffedeesh. Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! 04:33:51 -!- MizardX- has joined. 04:34:30 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:34:48 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 04:58:19 -!- Associat0r has joined. 05:32:41 immibis: wat 05:43:23 immibis knows his stuff 05:46:41 i think i should glio a pizza 05:53:23 ? 05:55:55 do you disagree? 05:56:12 is it just me or do people throw around the term 'deconstruction' way too much 05:58:01 i haven't noticed 06:02:20 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:02:55 Gracenotes: i dont see people use it hardly at all 06:03:14 are you reading much postmodernist/poststructuralist word and/or work influenced by derrida? 06:04:25 more like in discussions where people are considering whether or not a work deconstructed a genre, people tend to conclude the affirmative a bit too much 06:08:52 I don't see much use in the term personally 06:09:28 well, it does have a use, but people probably dont know what it means, so. 06:11:46 ^run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://google.com/ 06:12:10 damn ignore list 06:13:16 are you on it? 06:13:31 probably 06:13:31 ^echo hi 06:13:33 hi hi 06:13:37 ^run echo hi 06:13:42 yep 06:13:46 err, is ^run even a fungot command? 06:13:46 ais523: suppose i have ( equal? ( convert3 4 5 6) 06:13:54 no its a hackego command 06:13:58 oh wait hackego is ` 06:14:00 * immibis slaps head 06:14:02 in that case, you probably want a different prefix 06:14:08 `run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://googlw.com/ 06:14:09 No output. 06:14:13 `run wget --bind-address=127.0.0.1 http://google.com/ 2>&1 06:14:14 --2009-07-07 05:14:13-- http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently \ Location: http://www.google.com/ [following] \ --2009-07-07 05:14:14-- http://www.google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting 06:14:22 that actually worked!? 06:14:29 `run wget --bind-address=123.45.67.89 http://google.com/ 2>&1 06:14:30 --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Cannot assign requested address. \ Retrying. \ \ --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- (try: 2) http://google.com/ \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... failed: Cannot assign requested address. \ Retrying. \ \ --2009-07-07 05:14:29-- (try: 3) http://google.com/ 06:18:28 * immibis slaps myndzi immibis with an immibissuffix 06:18:29 * myndzi slapmyndziyndzmyndzimmibimyndzimmibissuffix 06:18:29 * immibis slapimmibisyndzimmibismmibimyndzmyndzisuffix 06:29:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:27:53 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 07:41:47 -!- coppro has joined. 07:43:27 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/sevenfold.mid 07:43:51 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:45:04 -!- coppro has joined. 07:48:10 i like it, but it kinda hurts my ears 07:48:31 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:48:59 -!- coppro has joined. 07:49:03 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:50:15 -!- coppro has joined. 07:56:21 subroles. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:26:22 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 08:31:48 -!- M0ny has joined. 08:51:13 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:24:29 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:44:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:55:29 is it possible to have a multi line TextView in a TableRow? 09:55:32 err sorry 09:55:40 -!- calamari has left (?). 09:55:56 you should be sorry 09:58:24 -!- Judofyr has joined. 10:01:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 10:01:17 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 10:26:19 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:28:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:29:49 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 10:40:32 -!- immibis has quit ("A day without sunshine is like .... night"). 11:07:16 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:12:20 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:54:16 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:17:31 that was awful, IWC 12:26:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:45:00 -!- M0ny has quit. 12:54:48 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 13:10:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:20:07 ehird, I had a series of 30 classical music cds based on theme, freedb has about 2/3 of them, musicbrainz has none. Oh and I'm not going to rip these, and it seems picard can't work directly from the cd. So I guess I can't add them. 13:20:29 oh and a few other cds I'm not going to rip that it is lacking. 13:26:16 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 13:38:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 13:39:10 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:48:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:48:45 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 13:51:05 -!- nice_ has joined. 13:52:06 -!- nice_ has changed nick to nice_ka. 13:53:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:53:57 -!- nice_ka has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 13:54:26 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 13:56:53 -!- MizardX- has joined. 13:56:53 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:57:26 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 14:05:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has changed nick to Wamanuz. 14:06:57 -!- Wamanuz has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 14:13:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:57:10 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 15:17:51 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 15:56:02 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 15:56:55 "Richard Stallman wrote emacs, gcc, gdb, glibc and the GPL. That is all." Wow, he's right. I guess we can't all be perfect. :-P 15:57:04 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 15:57:45 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:57:55 -!- MizardX has joined. 15:57:56 -!- Pthing has joined. 16:04:37 -!- darthnuri has joined. 16:07:45 -!- inurinternet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:25:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:29:24 -!- darthnuri has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 16:41:34 Project Euler is fun. Especially when you use the single most naive algorithms possible. 16:41:51 For prime factorization. 16:41:57 ;) 16:43:21 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:47:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:48:56 -!- augur has joined. 16:50:17 -!- coppro has joined. 17:03:58 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:16:31 -!- inurinternet has joined. 17:41:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 18:00:32 -!- inurinternet has quit (Connection timed out). 18:19:55 -!- inurinternet has joined. 18:24:26 -!- M0ny has joined. 18:28:32 -!- darthnuri has joined. 18:33:36 pikhq, heh 18:34:27 pikhq, what is the most naive one? I can think of at least two naive ones. Plus a number of less naive ones. Oh and some ones that passed "naive" and went to "intentionally stupid and silly" 18:35:22 AnMaster: Take the list of all primes less than half of n, check and see if those are factors. 18:35:31 ah.. 18:36:24 the bloody stupid one would be "try every possible combination of above mentioned primes", trying first using only using two primes, then if no match found, try again with three and so on 18:36:44 pikhq, how do you like that one? :) 18:37:13 Wow. 18:38:36 pikhq, like: foreach prime X < N/2 { foreach prime Y < N/2 { if (Y*X == N) return X,Y; } } 18:38:46 adapt to work for Z and so on 18:39:12 could be done by making it a list of n-tuples 18:39:17 and having a function combine 18:39:26 taking two lists, generating every possible combination 18:39:26 forall i in n: prime(i); product l = n; 18:39:27 like: 18:39:33 err 18:39:34 forall i in l: prime(i); product l = n; 18:40:53 combine([2,7], [2,7]) -> [{2,2},{2,7},{7,2},{7,7}] 18:41:18 except the input lists would already have such tuples 18:41:57 combine([2,7], [{2,2},{2,7},{7,2},{7,7}]) -> [{2,2,2},{2,2,7},{2,7,2},{2,7,7},{7,2,2},{7,2,7},{7,7,2},{7,7,7}] 18:42:03 if I'm not wrong 18:42:31 then multiply all the elements in each tuple and check if they match N 18:42:49 depends on what combine is 18:43:01 oklodok, the function described above 18:43:10 ... 18:43:16 and what i mean is, [{2, {2, 2}}, ... 18:43:25 usually works that way in math tho 18:43:45 oklodok, multiplication is commutative so it doesn't matter in this case. 18:43:47 also j has a few special cased things that lift tuples like that 18:44:10 and I was using erlang syntax for lists and tuples 18:44:41 blah 18:44:59 "blah"? 18:45:39 pikhq, what language does one write the solutions in? 18:45:44 for project euler 18:46:04 or do you just provide the answer? 18:46:12 Haskell. 18:46:19 pikhq, no other ones possible? 18:46:29 ... No, I mean I'm writing them in Haskell. 18:46:37 You just provide the answer. 18:46:40 ah ok 18:46:59 http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/07/0024224/Dont-Copy-That-Floppy-Gets-a-Sequel 18:49:01 crazy 18:49:05 There was a recent anti-piracy parody thing in that "The IT Crowd" TV series; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4 18:50:09 AnMaster: don't know why i said blah, my point was just combine must be somewhat smart to know when to lift tuples like that, but assuming you were just doing math in erlang notation, that's not important. 18:50:19 *just that 18:50:46 also i wanted to note j does that kinda lifting, although i don't remember what operators. 18:50:53 "Recent" as in 2-3 years old, yes 18:51:08 oklodok, note that combine is an invented function here 18:51:14 for this special purpose 18:51:22 AnMaster: invented name for cartesian product yes 18:51:37 oklodok, invented function for it yes for this purpose. 18:52:08 there are better ways to do that in erlang iirc. Using list comprehensions comes to mind. 18:52:10 Deewiant: Recent in the sense that they've recently started showing that thing in Finnish TV. Or so I hear, anyway; we don't have one. 18:52:24 Oh, I haven't heard of that. 18:52:31 why would they start showing it 18:52:32 "In Finland, the show is broadcast by Yle TV2 since April 2009." 18:52:34 it's stupid 18:52:38 I saw it back 2-3 years ago. 18:52:54 And found it partially reasonably amusing 18:53:02 well me too 18:53:23 i'm just kinda tired of watching nerd humor without nerd content 18:53:47 Would you watch a "The #esoteric Crowd" TV series? 18:54:09 I wouldn't 18:54:11 would be scary 18:54:19 well i watch the it crowd. 18:54:32 how accurate is it? 18:54:41 but yes esocrowd would probably be awesome 18:54:43 accurate? 18:54:44 I mean, when it comes to technical details 18:54:48 err 18:54:51 well there's this scene 18:55:02 where the nerd tells the chick about his code 18:55:18 there's a buzz so you don't hear what he says. 18:55:19 I've seen one (1) episode, and it didn't really go into technical details at all. It's more about the people, I guess. 18:55:28 what I mean is, is it technobable or does the stuff make sense? 18:55:44 fizzie, boring 18:55:46 Not technobabble. 18:56:02 Deewiant, and this is on TV? You are joking right? 18:56:16 Yes, no. 18:56:33 Deewiant, do you see any scrolling text on the face of a person in front of a computer? 18:56:43 from the reflecting light 18:56:48 if so it is disqualified 18:57:09 monitors are not projectors! 18:57:10 I doubt it, they don't spend much time sitting in front of their computers. 18:57:18 Deewiant, then what on earth is the point? 18:57:29 They're tech support. 18:57:30 Yes, it doesn't need technobabble when there's no techno to babble about. 18:57:45 fizzie, boring then 18:58:04 Deewiant, are the errors described actually plausible? 18:58:08 One of them always answers the phone with "IT; have you tried turning it off and then on again" 18:58:15 heh 18:58:31 i like the manager dude 18:58:37 Didn't they have an answering machine thing for the phone that suggested rebooting and the normal stuff? 18:58:46 Ah right, that came later 18:58:47 all other characters are, well, very british. 18:58:55 /other/? 18:59:07 I found the manager quite British as well. 18:59:47 by british character i mean the kind you find in british sitcoms, bad :) 18:59:55 i'm not sure why i think that. 19:00:01 That's what I meant too, apart from the bad 19:00:07 maybe i've watched the wrong wshows 19:00:10 oh 19:00:20 well he has the scrubs like insane quality. 19:00:22 *shows 19:00:30 i love scrubs. 19:00:56 if there is one thing I hate it is technobable when you know the stuff they are talking about. 19:00:58 ...Once I learnt enough physics I stopped watching Star Trek... 19:00:59 i like character humor, and complex humor 19:01:18 i haven't seen much of the latter during my lifetime 19:01:34 Complex number humor; there's a definite lack of that. 19:01:47 fizzie, I'm sure it has been done... 19:01:51 there's not much complex number humor that isn't just math related puns 19:02:06 math related puns are just puns, and puns are never funny 19:02:17 Z and X walked to a bar; but they're not orderable! 19:02:19 oklodok, there isn't much math humour that isn't puns... 19:02:37 i was told that earlier on #math 19:02:44 or not- 19:02:44 math 19:02:52 oklodok, oh? I was just speaking out of experience... 19:02:56 anyway, that's true. 19:03:05 anyway puns can be fun 19:03:12 no they can't 19:03:23 also i heard a math joke that wasn't a pun just after someone told me that 19:03:32 oklodok, and what was that joke? 19:03:51 SGI's IRIX accelerated-math library thing (for FFTs and such) has a data type "complex" for pairs of single-precision floats, but the name for the double-precision variant is the hilarious "zomplex". 19:04:10 zomplex a, b; 19:04:16 fizzie, err, why is that hilarious? 19:04:16 it was about a branch of math that has very inexact bounds, something about a lecturer saying he didn't remember exactly, but something happened less than 10^10^10^10 years ago. 19:04:29 I don't know why, it just is. 19:04:37 not that the name makes any sense 19:04:39 It's like some sort of zombie-complex. 19:05:02 is there any explanation of the name? 19:05:14 fizzie, zombies aren't really very funny 19:05:14 AnMaster: did you get the joke? 19:05:29 Zombies can be very funny 19:05:29 not the 100rd (th?) time at least 19:05:34 Watch Shaun of the Dead sometime 19:05:37 oklodok, *reads* 19:05:57 i didn't actually tell the joke, my interest in jokes is mostly theoretical 19:06:07 i can look it up if you can't laugh at it from that 19:06:14 oklodok, well... Assuming the current estimate of the age of the universe... 19:06:40 clearly he used something less exact than that. 19:07:02 i don't see how that matters, the gist of the joke is it doesn't matter in whatever branch the lecturer does either 19:07:20 00:04 AnMaster: ehird, editing on musicbrainz, have you done it yourself? 19:07:20 yes. 19:07:37 the branch was named after a name of some sort, and i've never heard of it, so i'd need to read from the logs 19:07:40 12:20 AnMaster: ehird, I had a series of 30 classical music cds based on theme, freedb has about 2/3 of them, musicbrainz has none. Oh and I'm not going to rip these, and it seems picard can't work directly from the cd. So I guess I can't add them. 19:07:42 12:20 AnMaster: oh and a few other cds I'm not going to rip that it is lacking. 19:07:44 you keep talking. are you fallaciously assuming I give a shit? 19:07:47 ehird, adding cds with different composers for different tracks = pain 19:08:04 ehird, compilations with themes 19:08:24 AnMaster: It's twice the fun when you need to add almost every composer, as I have had to do in the past. 19:08:25 17:49 fizzie: There was a recent anti-piracy parody thing in that "The IT Crowd" TV series; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4 19:08:31 is that the "you wouldn't steal a policeman's helmet"? 19:08:34 can't view in this country 19:08:35 ehird: Yes. 19:08:36 anyway that's ancient. 19:08:36 As well as the label that published the CD. 19:08:39 ehird, it is 19:08:45 ehird, read the rest of the log 19:08:54 17:52 fizzie: Deewiant: Recent in the sense that they've recently started showing that thing in Finnish TV. Or so I hear, anyway; we don't have one. 19:09:01 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694 19:09:10 I think the name is because LAPACK's six-letter (for Fortran compatibility) function names start with a single-character data-type prefix; S = float, D = double, C = single-precision complex, Z = double-precision complex. 19:09:28 Of course that's a bit of a non-answer, because it doesn't explain why lapack chose Z there. 19:09:32 AnMaster: It's twice the fun when you need to add almost every composer, as I have had to do in the past. <-- yes I had a few of that. I just gave up. Too much work. And some said "Unknown, but probably Haydn or Mozart" 19:09:39 Deewiant, that is where I gave up 19:10:01 17:55 AnMaster: what I mean is, is it technobable or does the stuff make sense? 19:10:01 Moss: [picks up phone] Hello, IT? Yah-hah? Have you tried forcing an expected reboot? You see the driver hooks the function by patching the system call table, so it's not safe to unload it unless another thread's about to jump in there and do its stuff, and you don't want to end up in the middle of invalid memory. 19:10:05 [laughs] 19:10:07 Moss: Hello? 19:10:09 correct apart from being the wrong way around./ 19:10:40 ehird, that kind of could make sense assuming windows NT's design 19:10:47 :-) I didn't remember that one 19:10:49 * AnMaster tries to remember how system calls worked 19:10:59 yes I think it is possibly accurate 19:11:12 AnMaster: it's fairly sane OS design. 19:11:28 I remember there was/is a table you could patch to install rootkits. Mentioned on sysinternals iirc... 19:11:29 (the correction is s/unless/if/) 19:11:44 not sure if it was an internal table, or the system call one. 19:11:57 was just about to complain about unless 19:12:04 19:10 ehird: correct apart from being the wrong way around./ 19:12:21 um 19:12:25 could work still 19:12:30 no 19:12:31 just use CMPXCHG 19:12:32 :P 19:12:37 to make it lockless 19:12:39 unloading it is only safe if you're about to jump to it? 19:12:45 ehird, ah not that 19:12:48 THAT'S what will end you in the middle of garbage memory... 19:12:58 I meant, could be make to work even if something is jumping to it 19:13:05 ata1: hard resetting link 19:13:18 That is cause for concern, I think. 19:13:27 It happens 19:13:29 oh man, that sequel is official 19:13:45 "A smug teen who's downloading files from 'Pirates Palace' and 'Tune Weasel' finds his world turned upside down when automatic weapons-toting government agents break down the door and take his Mom away in handcuffs. The teen finds himself in a prison jumpsuit forced to tattoo shirtless adult inmates who eventually turn on him, physically attack him, and make him run for his life back to his jail cell." 19:13:46 just use a CAS instruction (CMPXCHG assuming x86), to swap it with the original function used 19:14:01 it sounds more like a subversive ad for anarchism than against piracy 19:14:06 then it doesn't matter if something is about to jump to it 19:14:25 pikhq, might be 19:14:31 y'know what this has acheived? 19:14:33 achieved 19:14:38 i wanna go pirate a bunch of software i don't want to use 19:14:47 and delete it immediately 19:14:49 and get sued. 19:15:02 oh? 19:15:13 I'm running a smartctl test. 19:15:28 i'm not giving them the money they rightfully should own as I would if I bought it then stomped on the disc 19:15:59 wait, does it have the same mc? :D 19:16:22 In a flashback, at least; watching it. 19:16:31 oklodok, there are some non-puns in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_joke below the pun section 19:16:38 see "Stereotypes of mathematicians" 19:16:49 LOL at the prisoners' tattoos. 19:16:58 i'm also not that interested in mathematician jokes 19:16:59 Deewiant, ? 19:17:11 hahahahahah this must be a parody 19:17:22 AnMaster: See /. link above, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHaAFqoVLtI for the lazy. 19:17:32 stereotype jokes are almost as easy as puns 19:17:54 Deewiant: omg it's the same mc 19:17:59 Yep, it is 19:18:16 sounds like what what in the butt 19:18:19 don't copy that, in the butt 19:18:31 LOL at the crappy-looking and -sounding Klingons 19:18:39 This is really weak :-D 19:19:04 to copy data is a great dishonour? fucking L[123] caches and RAM! 19:19:14 they should be illegal! (well, they were somewhere iirc :)) 19:19:22 ehird, wasn't it in UK? 19:19:26 no 19:19:29 hm ok 19:20:08 well, that was delightfully bullshit 19:20:18 lol, they're using Joomla on their website 19:20:21 last I checked, it was open source 19:20:35 i suspect them of copying it. 19:21:03 *Joomla!; pedanticity must be applied even in the face of obnoxious exclamation marks 19:21:34 I can't watch it, it is just too bad. 19:21:44 "I bet if I showed this new video to the average 12 year old, they'd think it was some kind of internet sketch comedy thing." 19:21:51 it actually is exactly like that 19:22:01 if it wasn't on the SIIA website, I'd be laughin' 19:22:01 ehird, isn't it? 19:22:07 AnMaster: no, it's real 19:22:21 ehird: Joomla! is GPL. ;) 19:22:29 pikhq: "Copying data is a great dishonor." 19:22:34 I rest my case. 19:22:37 Hah. 19:22:47 honour* 19:22:50 You know it's true because fake Klingons (…is there another kind?) said it. 19:23:56 Deewiant: probably not the same actor; since the actor is like CEO of some enterprisey bullshit computer company 19:24:46 Beats me 19:25:41 what's don't copy that floppy exactly? 19:25:56 about that "patching system call table" quote... were there more like that in that series? 19:25:57 oklodok: you have to watch it. to experience it. 19:25:59 Something also available on youtube 19:26:00 ehird, ^ 19:26:05 AnMaster: dunno, I only watched a few episodes. 19:26:08 An early 90s anti-piracy video 19:26:11 just torrent the damn thing and see :P 19:26:17 Deewiant: yes, but it takes about an hours to download something with my conn 19:26:20 *hour 19:26:46 (it's okay, we brits paid for it with our yearly payment to the WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE SO PAY UP YOUR DAMN TV LICENSE commission) 19:26:58 10 minutes of fairly heavily compressed video shouldn't take /that/ long 19:27:05 Unless they're bigger than I think 19:27:19 Deewiant: they are, but it can play before downloading it all, so 19:27:20 takes 10 minutes to download a midi 19:27:31 What are you on, 1200 baud? 19:27:33 some normal webpages time out 19:27:34 (apparently the tv licensing people just track who has a TV, then harass anyone who doesn't have one) 19:27:50 Webpages go up to megabytes these days, that doesn't surprise me 19:27:51 no i just have µtorrent on, and for some reason it kills http 19:27:53 (we saw in your window that you have a tv and are watching it and are not paying us!* *note: we didn't actually look) 19:28:02 oklodok: because your connection is saturated 19:28:04 Well yeah, utorrent helps 19:28:05 rate-limit utorrent. 19:28:12 Deewiant: i've never seen a 1mb webpage 19:28:23 ehird: Turn off adblock. 19:28:26 And noscript. 19:28:41 Deewiant: Mu; I don't use them. 19:28:50 Anyway, that wouldn't timeout the whole page. 19:28:52 Just certain elements. 19:29:00 If it's in a table it'll timeout the whole thing. 19:29:04 oklodok: link to that sevenfold glio song thing? saw it in the logs ages ago. 19:29:12 Deewiant: not eg an 19:29:20 If it's in a table it'll timeout the whole thing. <-- huh? 19:29:29 ehird: sure, that's kind of a nobrainer, i just don't want to limit it, i prefer not using the net. 19:29:31 ehird: No? Don't you need to know the size before you can flow it? 19:29:37 sevenfold glio song? 19:29:40 you mean the midi? 19:29:43 Deewiant: modern browsers don't have that. 19:29:43 sevenfold.mid 19:29:44 oklodok: yeah 19:29:49 Deewiant: netscape 4, I think, did that. 19:29:53 they just reflow. 19:30:01 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/sevenfold.mid 19:30:02 also, :P 19:30:13 I recall people complaining about as recently as in Phoenix 19:30:19 Deewiant: weird 19:30:21 oklodok: beautiful 19:30:22 Granted, that's still a while ago 19:30:41 "Their marketing department didn't even notice that they made an unauthorized reproduction and depiction of a well known anime character in their video..." —/. 19:30:51 But anyway, it was quite obviously noticeable that tables didn't render the way divs did 19:31:01 oklodok: i like the guitar/drums part 19:31:07 ehird: it's probably my only "published" piece that has completely random parts. 19:31:07 very nice sandwiched with the noise. 19:31:14 well 19:31:15 not parts 19:31:22 but at least subparts. 19:31:31 oklodok: i wonder if it's possible to play this irl 19:31:35 i'm thinking the drums might be a bit hard. 19:31:44 usually the stuff people hear as noise in my songs is 100% thought through 19:32:45 world record is 80 bps 19:32:45 anicecreamymelody goes well after sevenfold. 19:32:46 iirc 19:32:48 for drums 19:33:09 ehird: if you want to hear, i do have some actual music too. 19:33:17 oklodok: that's just hitting shit a lot though 19:33:27 also you have to play the rhythmical part straight afterwards 19:33:34 oklodok: you mean the metal stuff? 19:33:41 i listened to that ages ago, didn't really like it. 19:33:43 err well yes most of it 19:33:53 what's the rest 19:33:57 you listened to the band stuff? 19:34:02 yeah 19:34:05 months and months ago. 19:34:07 both bands? 19:34:15 yes, they sounded mostly identical ;P 19:34:16 *:P 19:34:24 oh 19:34:36 weird. 19:34:43 well i'm not really a metal guy you know? 19:34:47 all sorta sounds the same. 19:34:51 right, i guess. 19:34:55 etudes, i haven't seen etudes before 19:35:12 old piano etudes of mine 19:35:25 well i dunno what these .gt[45]s are i guess i could download the midi archive 19:35:35 anyway most of my songs are just on .mid 19:35:41 but, they are mostly metal 19:35:48 well metal .mid is okay 19:35:48 i only have like 10 or so non-metal songs 19:35:57 the music is fine, i just don't like how it sounds when performed 19:36:01 oklodok, ehird: for drums, couldn't you use several people, playing on a round-robin schedule? 19:36:01 on the computer that is 19:36:07 to increase number of beats 19:36:08 AnMaster: have you listened to it? 19:36:20 ehird, not yet, trying to find my headphones... 19:36:22 it could work if you have instant, infinite communication and comprehension between everyone. 19:36:28 AnMaster: you won't like it :D 19:36:41 oklodok: well linky to mids? 19:36:47 well 19:37:00 i can privately up some stuff for you, but i don't like distributing them. 19:37:05 kayy 19:37:10 i'll only give them to 5000 people max 19:37:16 :) 19:37:20 maybe 50,000 19:37:22 if it's a good day 19:37:40 oh 50,000? then we have a problem. 19:37:49 7,000 19:37:59 hmm 19:38:02 It should be over 9000 19:38:05 that's find 19:38:06 *fine 19:38:28 9,000 + epsilon 19:38:36 9,000 + ε 19:39:08 Which reminds me, can anybody explain why 8000 got translated to 9000 19:39:14 oklodok, I would like a copy too. 19:39:26 Deewiant, hm? I thought 9000 was some meme 19:39:40 8000 I never heard of as a meme 19:39:50 AnMaster: it was 8000 in the original japanese 19:39:53 they translated it to 9000. 19:40:01 I don't even know where the meme is from 19:40:04 you would now? 19:40:04 but from what you said 19:40:05 dragon ball z. 19:40:08 I guess manga/anime 19:40:10 oklodok: i inferred from Deewiant 19:40:18 it's clearly because americans are 1,000 better, anyway 19:40:20 It's from an episode of Dragonball Z where Vegeta says it angrily. 19:40:36 and this "dragonball z", is it manga or anime? 19:40:46 Manga doesn't come in episodes. 19:40:48 most animes are also mangae.. 19:40:51 And it's a "power level" which should be over 9000. 19:40:54 s/\.\././ 19:41:00 fizzie: shouldn't be. 19:41:03 Dragonball Z is based on the Dragonball manga, though, where it was also 8000. 19:41:07 Deewiant, ok. I'm not an expert on such stuff. 19:41:09 the main line is expressing shock at said fact. 19:41:18 And in the new Dragonball Kai which is sort of a remake of Dragonball Z it was also 8000. 19:41:19 admittedly by Bad Guy(TM) 19:41:24 i don't actually know anything about dragonball 19:41:31 i'm just good at collecting info randomly and inferring. 19:41:49 Erzyklopedia dramatica has the dialogue, so: 19:41:50 Nappa: "VEGETA! What does the scouter say about his power level?" 19:41:50 Vegeta: "IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!" *crushes scouter* 19:41:50 Nappa: WHAT, NINE THOUSAND!? 19:41:58 shush 19:41:59 qntm's is better 19:42:03 it has a total transcript 19:42:10 qntm? 19:42:16 sam hughes 19:42:17 quantum nano technology manager? 19:42:22 quantum 19:42:28 http://qntm.org/?9000 19:43:02 Heh, that's a fun. 19:43:42 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:44:53 The original is quite clearly "hassen ijou da". 19:45:22 Hussein is your dad. 19:45:37 DBKai's version of it is evidently up at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9oVNvRSlVk for the interested. 19:45:49 The relevant phrase being at 0:34 or thereabouts. 19:45:53 My motherboard is starting to give up the ghost. YAY. 19:46:06 Deewiant: You're obsessed with either over 9000 or Dragonball. 19:46:10 Apparently nine thousand isn't even all that much nowadays. (Source: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerLevels ) 19:46:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:46:25 Deewiant: also, how is that a remake? it looks exactly the same. 19:46:40 oh. says hd remastered. 19:46:57 And they removed some scenes to make it shorter and more in line with the manga. 19:48:26 I'm mostly obsessed with accuracy. Your 1000s just reminded me. But I do know quite a bit more about Dragonball than most. 19:48:42 And you admit that? 19:48:54 I know a bit more about child pornography than most. 19:48:58 I know a bit more about rape techniques than most. 19:49:05 I know a bit more about assassinating the president than most. 19:49:24 I don't mind admitting I have esoteric knowledge. Especially on #esoteric. 19:49:32 …strangely, while I have no qualms about putting those in that template, I can't bring myself to put in things like "Dragonball" 19:49:37 (I tried. My hands seize up.) 19:50:31 I wish ais523 logread. 19:50:36 "One thing I found puzzling was that the Brits consistently apologized for and/or denigrated Birmingham." 19:50:41 —Bruce Eckel, http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=261930 19:52:03 ehird, what other things 'like "Dragonball"' 19:52:09 some examples? 19:52:25 "Scat porn" works. 19:52:31 ah 19:52:36 Aduberatatatado! 19:52:38 What's so bad about Dragonball vis-à-vis child porn anyway 19:52:39 Abababababababada 19:52:46 Rutanaloobeedoobeedoo 19:52:47 Deewiant, was wondering that too 19:52:51 i've fairly sure i know more than most about all of those. 19:52:54 *i'm 19:52:54 Deewiant: Aren't they synonyms anyway?-) 19:53:00 ehird, what about inserting C++ there? 19:53:04 it was re 19:48 fizzie: And you admit that? 19:53:06 can you manage it? 19:53:11 Not quite, no. In fact, not at all. :-P 19:53:21 AnMaster: as much as it pains me to admit it, it's possible I'm going to willingly use C++ for something 19:53:31 Odd. Why? 19:53:40 what Deewiant said... 19:54:07 also what about "Plain English"? I think it would be true too. Sadly. 19:54:15 Deewiant: game engine type stuff; lots of OOP stuff so not e.g. C, but needs a lot of assured speed and control over purity, so not e.g. Haskell 19:54:25 *cough*D*cough* 19:54:34 But yeah, toolchain etc. 19:54:35 Deewiant: i'd rather vomit 19:54:37 :p 19:54:51 gc would be quite nice but it's not really vital so 19:55:00 ehird, are you going to work on a game engine? You know there are many good open source 3D engines already that can handle both directx and opengl? 19:55:02 i am going to add a custom scripting language to it so i might just add refcounting to my object infrastructure 19:55:07 irrlight comes to mind 19:55:08 Deewiant: Wasn't there some sort of censorship thing about DBZ Finnish translation release? Or was it some other manga thing? 19:55:13 AnMaster: what fun's that? 19:55:18 what was the other one 19:55:18 i want something i can tweak 19:55:22 ehird: *cough* Haskell speed ~= C speed. 19:55:23 crystalspace or something like that 19:55:33 :P 19:55:36 fizzie: Possibly... rings a bell but I can't remember any details 19:55:38 pikhq: under ideal circumstances; but I also need a ton of libraries for shit Haskell doesn't really have a lot of 19:55:42 glut and the like 19:55:46 i'd be in IO 90% of the time anyway 19:55:52 ehird, could you insert "D" there instead of "C++"? ;P 19:55:55 ... Doesn't Haskell have glut bindings? 19:55:55 ehird: FFI (+ C/C++ bridges) 19:55:58 since a whole lot of game logic will be in the scripting language anyway 19:56:03 pikhq: Yes, it does. 19:56:04 I know I saw one in Hackage. 19:56:12 19:55 AnMaster: ehird, could you insert "D" there instead of "C++"? ;P 19:56:12 → 19:56:14 19:54 Deewiant: *cough*D*cough* 19:56:16 19:54 Deewiant: But yeah, toolchain etc. 19:56:18 19:54 ehird: Deewiant: i'd rather vomit 19:56:19 ehird, cya 19:56:20 I hate D as a language, also. 19:56:22 More than C++. 19:56:26 → as in transition 19:56:28 erlang has opengl bindings btw. Just in case anyone wants it... 19:56:29 Odd. Why? 19:56:42 ehird: So, I am actually getting that new system. 19:56:42 there is even a 3D editor using them 19:56:45 Deewiant: it's a gigantic hodgepodge 19:56:50 Despite being a hodgepodgey mess I find it cleaner than C++. 19:56:50 pikhq: THE $80K ONE? AWESOME! 19:56:51 :-) 19:56:52 :p 19:56:53 polygon only (no NURBS) 19:56:59 ehird: No. 19:57:02 ehird: I mean, really. C++ isn't? 19:57:14 Deewiant: i'm gonna be conservative in my use of C++ features, and at least it's a mess with a good toolchain 19:57:29 ehird, that's true 19:57:34 the D toolchain definitely sucks 19:57:44 even Deewiant has to admit that 19:57:53 I did 19:58:10 It's a royal bitch to get set up, yes. 19:58:12 ehird, try inserting asm then 19:58:19 AnMaster: wat 19:58:23 ... 19:58:31 I know a bit more about assembler than most. 19:58:35 like that 19:58:47 ah 19:58:50 well i do 19:58:56 more than most people in the world 19:58:56 ah ok 19:59:08 probably more than most people who have heard what assembly is 19:59:17 but not more than most people who've written a program in asm 19:59:30 pikhq: Once you've done it a few times it's not really much trouble at all, though. (On *nix. Windows is always a pain, but then it is so for almost any language.) 19:59:43 ehird, you couldn't bring yourself to insert the phrase "D" there? Nor "dragonball"? What about other things on D? Maybe you have some sort of phobia against the letter D in that context? 19:59:55 oh, that's what you meant? 20:00:01 ehird, yes 20:00:03 i thought "remove C++ from the project and insert D" 20:00:07 ah 20:00:12 Deewiant: It's a consistent bitch on x86_64. 20:00:26 Since it *building* is a a gamble. 20:00:26 pikhq: How so? 20:00:30 I'm on x86-64. 20:00:30 Deewiant, remember that "wrong file, right line number" in debug info? 20:00:32 I rest my case. 20:00:38 What case? 20:00:45 ... 20:00:51 about toolchain being shit 20:00:54 Random remarks don't constitute a case 20:01:02 I thought we'd settled that already 20:01:04 Yes, it is shit 20:01:17 haha, gmail isn't beta any more 20:01:20 who was remarking on that yesterday? 20:01:41 pikhq: LDC builds quite cleanly on x86-64. 20:02:06 DMD and co I run in a 32-bit chroot like other 32-bit stuff. 20:04:40 i like inventing practical esolangs. 20:08:55 ehird, hm? examples? 20:09:02 befunge is probably one of the most practical ones 20:09:10 also make sure you don't stray into DSLs 20:09:14 as in, an odd language designed for a practical purpose. 20:09:27 a DSL out of context can easily look like an esolang and vice verse. 20:09:34 uhh 20:09:35 no. 20:09:40 practical eoslangs that is 20:09:48 nothing related 20:10:53 ehird, sed is a special purpose language. If you never seen it before and then see an example of it used to implement a calculator (+-/* and square root) you would probably think "this is an esolang" 20:11:02 that is what I meant 20:11:21 welllll 20:11:21 sure 20:11:41 of course this doesn't apply to for example malbolge, you can't mistake it as a dsl 20:12:04 but some of those rewriting ones could probably be mistaken unless I misremember 20:12:08 Thue maybe? 20:12:15 i wonder if anyone uses the extension .c++ 20:12:21 nobody seems to, prolly cause of windows 20:12:25 ehird, I have seen that 20:12:31 really? where? 20:12:31 some open source project 20:12:33 + should work on windows 20:12:39 Deewiant: it's invalid in filenames isnt it 20:12:42 *isn't 20:12:47 ehird, a year or two ago at least. Don't remember which open source project 20:12:56 ehird: My statement was implying that I don't think it is. 20:12:58 wikipedia's [[C++]] doesn't cover the file extension issue 20:13:01 what a travesty 20:13:03 ehird, .C .cc .CC .cxx are more common though 20:13:03 It might be. 20:13:04 Deewiant: hmm kay 20:13:07 the former one is nasty 20:13:10 pretty sure it's invalid 20:13:11 AnMaster: see your pm btw. 20:13:17 there was both foo.c and foo.C 20:13:21 in the same directory 20:13:23 AnMaster: the former one sucks on case insensitive filesystems like HFS :p 20:13:25 *HFS+ 20:13:26 AnMaster: agh! 20:13:29 i hate it when that happens 20:13:31 can't unpack ;( 20:13:34 *:( 20:13:38 AnMaster: .cpp is quite common 20:13:39 ehird, can't you manually fix it 20:13:40 .cxx isn't 20:13:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_name doesn't appear to mention +. 20:13:41 or tell me here that you won't answer in pm 20:13:42 ehird, right 20:13:49 .cc / .cpp > .cxx i would say for popularity 20:13:53 AnMaster: also, i can but it's a pain 20:14:16 I'd say .cpp >> .cc > .cxx 20:14:22 yeah prolly 20:14:26 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 20:14:29 ehird, it should be used more IMO 20:14:35 .cxx is ugly. 20:14:36 I use .cc personally 20:14:37 x isn't +. 20:14:41 doesn't POSIX mandate case sensitive file systems 20:14:47 AnMaster: i don't think so. 20:14:51 hm 20:15:01 i'd say, ideally it'd be .c++, failing that, prolly .cpp, then .cc, then .cxx 20:15:08 .c++ and .cpp are logical, .cc, .cxx and .C aren't 20:15:14 .cc seems quite common 20:15:20 also, we need to take into account headers 20:15:23 .cpp is ugly just like .cxx 20:15:23 i've never seen .hh 20:15:30 people just use .h or .hpp 20:15:30 I use .hh also 20:15:31 ehird, I have seen .hh 20:15:32 or .hxx 20:15:33 I've used .cc/.hh. 20:15:33 seriously 20:15:34 well okay 20:15:37 and .hxx 20:15:37 certainly rare though 20:15:45 ehird, never seen .H though... 20:15:52 .hpp is the most common special h naming i've seen 20:15:56 which lends more credence to .cpp too 20:15:57 glioooooo 20:16:00 ehird, .hpp and .hxx 20:16:01 .h is more common though 20:16:01 eh 20:16:03 O dpm 20:16:04 i'll ask stroustru 20:16:04 p 20:16:07 maybe he has an opinion. 20:16:08 fizzie, ? 20:16:19 AnMaster: shift typo 20:16:23 i.e. hands rested one letter off 20:16:27 Yes. Then I gave up. 20:16:40 Deewiant, I'd say .hpp > .h > .hxx > .hh 20:16:51 i like .o 20:16:57 http://www.research.att.com/~bs/pronounciation.wav strchstruwp 20:16:58 I'd flip .h and .hpp 20:17:08 .h is undesirable. 20:17:10 if you do that, do .c too! 20:17:21 That's quite common, too. 20:17:27 ............... 20:17:30 srsly? 20:17:34 O dpm <-- shifted to "I son"? 20:17:38 Yes 20:17:45 I, son. 20:17:47 son of who? 20:17:50 "I don". 20:17:55 ah 20:17:59 don: are you? 20:18:07 fizzie, so the d was unshifted 20:18:19 ehird: String char string unsigned word pointer, in MS-speak. :P 20:18:20 It was just the right hand that was off-by-one. And the ' in the fi layout is next to enter, which is what I tried to press next. 20:18:31 pikhq: wat 20:18:35 Er, I mean, I tried ' but it came out as an enter. 20:18:40 ' 20:18:41 ehird, best way would be .C and .H clearly 20:18:44 I DID BOTH 20:18:44 They're Hungarian. 20:18:50 AnMaster: best way would be .c++ and .h++ 20:18:53 .C/.H makes no sense 20:19:04 ehird, ok, .c++ and .h++ would be better 20:19:08 but I never see .h++ 20:19:09 ever 20:19:14 .c++ yes 20:19:15 i never see .c++ either 20:19:22 anyway, anyone got a windows box? 20:19:24 see if .c++ works 20:19:25 I did see .c++, I think paired with .h 20:19:31 some FOSS 20:19:47 ehird, where is oerjan when you need him 20:19:56 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) 20:20:05 ehird, heh 20:20:06 I can't be bothered to reboot just for that 20:20:09 According to MSDN it should work: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247(VS.85).aspx 20:20:21 Deewiant: set up a vm pointed at the windows partition 20:20:22 fizzie: Please link to the low-bandwidth one 20:20:22 The reserved ones are < > : " / \ | ? *. 20:20:34 Deewiant: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365247(VS.85,loband).aspx 20:20:34 ehird: Too much of a pain. 20:20:36 sorry, you wanted fizzie 20:20:42 Cheers 20:21:02 I can't seem to find a link to that, just the printer-friendly thing. 20:21:12 Ah, there it is. 20:21:38 But I'm not going to link to it! Ha ha! 20:21:49 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 20:22:12 [[See my C++0x FAQ. The aim is for the 'x' in C++0x to become '9': C++09, rather than (say) C++0xA (hexadecimal :-).]] 20:22:13 that worked well 20:24:04 Of course there's the catch-all "Any other character that the target file system does not allow". And in fact the FAT short-name can't contain a +: "The following special characters are also allowed: $ % ' - _ @ ~ ` ! ( ) { } ^ # &" (does not include +). 20:24:32 But the long-name can contain any of + , ; = [ ] too. And I guess NTFS is a bit more flexible. 20:24:35 ehird: You commented about big pages, btw; MSDN reminded me of that. www.fox.com is at 1.46 MB (and still waiting for something, it seems) according to Firebug. 20:24:54 I question why you'd want to load fox.com 20:24:58 But anyway, that's multiple things 20:25:01 You won't get a timeout 20:25:05 Just some broken images and stuff 20:25:31 No, but if you're browsing two things at once the other might timeout. 20:25:44 I don't care whether it's strictly part of the page, just how much it stresses the connection. 20:26:12 True. 20:26:15 Anyway, fox.com was just an example, I figured it'd be pretty huge. 20:27:52 I actually tried cnn.com first but it consistently hangs my whole browser. 20:29:31 XD 20:31:45 (It did respond to Ctrl-W, though.) 20:33:12 Whoo. Seems today was a really good time to get stuff from Newegg. 20:33:39 Phenom? Screw that; a Phenom II FTW. 20:34:02 pikhq: Buy FIVE MILLION of them. 20:34:07 pikhq: Also, DDR3 prices are near DDR2 now. 20:34:20 Also, AM2+ motherboard was still cheaper. 20:34:20 Mayhaps you could get 2x2GB of DDR3 on the cheap, I think. 20:34:28 Poor you :P 20:34:34 What's "near" here 20:34:42 Deewiant: "Almost as low as" 20:34:43 "Only twice"? 20:34:51 No, they've improved very rapidly 20:35:00 ehird: $42 bucks off in total. 20:35:04 ehird: Numbers, please. Preferably ones that have something to do with their relative prices. 20:35:06 Deewiant: 2GB for $27.99 of DDR3. 20:35:25 Wow, I can get $27.99 of DDR3‽ 20:35:30 Lawl 20:35:54 I have over 6 times that of DDR2 20:36:00 Deewiant: Lowest 2GB cost on newegg is $21.99; the DDR3 I was talking about was Crucial - a respected brand. 20:36:02 So I'm doing good, I guess 20:36:04 The lowest DDR2? "Allcomponents". 20:36:14 Never heard of Crucial. 20:36:16 Looking further, you're saving just a few dollars. 20:36:19 Deewiant: they're huge... 20:36:29 Outside the Commonwealth? :-P 20:36:32 I have here an old laptop I'd like a 1 gigabyte so-dimm for; but it eats DDR1 only, and for some reason a 1-gigabyte DDR1 thing is approximately 40€, while a 1-gigabyte DDR2 so-dimm is ~13€. Around here. 20:36:33 mostly in the "aftermarket memory upgrades" market 20:36:44 Deewiant: you have 8GB of ram right? 20:36:50 Yep. 20:37:20 Deewiant: How much did it cost, and when? 20:37:57 Something like 60-70 € twice, IIRC. It was on sale around... November? 20:38:24 You can get 4GB of DDR3 in 2x2 for $57.99; although you can save a whole cent by getting 2x2 separately = $57.98. 130 euros is $181. 20:38:41 I seem to have bought a 2-gigabyte DDR2 stick for 17.90 € in April 28th. 20:38:41 $57.98 = 41.52 eur 20:38:50 Deewiant: Crucial is well-respected and not over-priced. 20:39:04 fizzie: 2GB of DDR3 = 20 euros 20:39:23 This was, of course, Mushkin's Redline RAM and thus considered somewhat extraneously quality. 20:39:36 It was also approximately the cheapest DDR2 I could find, interestingly enough. 20:39:46 (Among brands that have names.) 20:39:50 Deewiant: Interestingly, the clock speed and the like on DDR3 don't change Core i7 performance much out of synthetic benchmarks. 20:40:05 I think bsmntbombdood's 12GB of DDR3 RAM was like $200 20:40:16 Perhaps those synthetic benchmarks don't stress RAM! 20:40:20 They did 20:40:26 I'm going from 256k of cache to 6M. 20:40:28 Deewiant: I meant non-benchmarks don't change 20:40:40 Anyway, all I'm sayin' is, if you have the mobo support, DDR3 is the only sane option. 20:40:47 I'm getting 3 times the CPUs. And 4 times the RAM. 20:40:54 pikhq: how much ram are you getting? 20:40:58 My system's going to be modern again! 20:40:59 also, 3 times the cores 20:40:59 ehird: 4G. 20:41:00 not cpus 20:41:19 pikhq: I'd say DDR3 performance is worth $42, btw. 20:41:36 I'd have to get a more expensive motherboard for that. 20:41:40 three times as much ram as number of cores? 20:41:44 pikhq: You said $42 more. 20:41:46 huh? 20:42:01 ehird: Well yeah, if you have the mobo support DDR3 is your only option. :-P 20:42:06 Deewiant: Uh, no. 20:42:09 AM3 mobos support both. 20:42:11 ehird: No, I'm saying it was a total of $42 off, because the CPU was marked down by $30 and the motherboard by $10. 20:42:12 Or are there DDR2+3 boards these days. 20:42:12 Which is the relevant case for pikhq. 20:42:13 Okay. 20:42:17 And the RAM by $2. 20:42:18 pikhq: Ah. 20:42:24 ehird, ^ 20:42:24 pikhq: What is your mobo+RAM costing you? 20:42:37 I really shouldn't talk about hardware when I haven't been researching it recently. 20:42:56 ehird: Maybe $100? 20:43:03 pikhq: Look at the prices, plz :P 20:43:29 Nein. 20:43:52 pikhq: I'm just trying to prove that DDR3 wouldn't actually add much cost at all to your system. 20:44:02 Whatever. 20:44:32 pikhq: $133.97 for 4GB of DDR3 RAM and a supporting AM3 mobo. 20:44:50 Your loss :-P 20:44:56 Okay. More but not much more. 20:45:07 ...which can't be said about the performance. 20:45:13 *smoooooooth* 20:45:22 (Uh, rephrase that more... positively) 20:46:17 AnMaster: Deewiant: fizzie: New evidence in the C++ naming debate — apparently cfront used .cc 20:46:21 not sure, though 20:47:36 pikhq: FWIW, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153149 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149 x 2 20:51:24 I wonder how the extensions fit with Objective-C++ 20:51:27 .mm is silly. 20:51:30 .mpp makes sense. 20:51:37 .M is silly. 20:51:40 .mxx is really silly. 20:51:48 Well, .mm or .mpp I guess 20:51:56 So it's still down to .cc or .cpp in general 20:55:02 Maybe the ".mmm, marabou" extension. 20:58:15 ehird, what about .m? I remember also seeing .c for C++ 20:58:18 seriously 20:58:27 lol. 20:58:37 was some shitty open source game 20:58:39 .c for C++ is fairly common. 20:58:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:58:56 And gcc breaks on that. 20:59:39 In general I don't call on gcc for C++ source anyway. 20:59:46 hi oerjan 20:59:56 hello AnMaster 21:00:00 pikhq, not if you want it to work 21:00:07 you can use -x or something iirc 21:00:11 -x c++ maybe? 21:00:17 -xlang c++, IIRC. 21:00:33 err no 21:00:35 man gcc 21:00:39 agrees with me 21:00:49 -x c++98 :-P 21:00:52 wait 21:00:53 that's -std= 21:00:54 ignore me 21:00:55 gcj -x c++ foo.cxx should work 21:01:17 for extra sillyness: gcj -x c++ -std=c++98 foo.cxx 21:01:21 but I'm not quite sure 21:01:30 it certainly works for gcc and g++ 21:01:34 surely ou mean GNAT 21:01:37 *you 21:01:40 JGNAT is a GNAT version that compiles from the Ada programming language to Java bytecode. 21:01:42 ehird, that too I guess... 21:01:43 jgnat -x or whatever :P 21:02:00 iirc GNAT is kind of special in general 21:02:06 but I never used it 21:02:53 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) <-- that hasn't happened in a long while. although occasionally it refuses to start, saying "Operating system not found" 21:02:58 heh 21:03:04 oerjan: can you name a file butt.c++ ? 21:03:11 well not necessarily butt 21:03:13 If he's on NTFS, he can. 21:03:47 If he's on FAT32, he should be able too, as long as he doesn't care that the underlying 8.3-format short-name won't have a + there. 21:03:48 sure 21:04:07 C: is NTFS 21:04:16 Well, FAT, I guess. 21:04:31 Non-8.3 on FAT is evil. 21:05:59 Deewiant: tell that to ais523 21:06:12 oerjan: did it work? 21:06:17 I prefer UMSDOS. 21:06:35 argh i hate const correctness 21:06:50 (FAT with extra metadata to make it magically be proper UNIX) 21:07:01 Shame it's not in 2.6. 21:07:11 ehird: yes, yes 21:07:21 that's what i meant by "sure" 21:07:30 hmm you don't have to write "return 0;" in c++ 21:07:33 i guess c99 stole that 21:07:36 wonder if it's "best practice" 21:08:27 !haskell return 0 :: [Rational] 21:08:29 [0%1] 21:09:41 lawl 21:10:01 and having a function combine 21:10:20 aka liftM2 (,) 21:10:38 eh 21:10:40 what's that from 21:11:06 !haskell liftM2 (,) [2,7] [2,7] 21:11:10 and having a function combine 21:11:12 what's this from 21:11:25 !haskell import Control.Monad; main=print$liftM2 (,) [2,7] [2,7] 21:11:27 [(2,2),(2,7),(7,2),(7,7)] 21:11:39 tellll meeeeeeeee oerjan 21:12:23 a discussion on stupid factorization in the logs, iiuc 21:12:34 ah. 21:12:36 *prime testing 21:13:01 Factorization, actually. 21:13:56 pikhq: btw your solution to euler #1 is much longer than needs be 21:14:13 also list comprehensions are probably clearer for beginners 21:15:06 yes 21:15:08 that's what it was 21:15:17 lemme find the code 21:15:19 hum? 21:15:29 i wasn't commenting on your comment, btw 21:15:39 ehird: Yeah. 21:15:43 pikhq: here — 21:15:44 (sec) 21:15:48 but list comprehensions may be a good bet anyhow ;D 21:16:01 sum [n | n <- [1..1000-1], n `mod` 5 == 0 || n `mod` 3 == 0] 21:16:20 Instead of my filtering stuff. 21:16:26 [|] IS filtering stuff 21:16:32 Yes. 21:16:40 but yours filters through [1..] to find the answer or something, which is bizarre 21:16:41 Not using the filter function, though. 21:16:43 also 1000-1 is bizarre 21:16:45 make it [1..99] 21:16:49 pikhq: yes it does 21:16:51 concatMap is isomorphic 21:16:54 Filters [1..999]. 21:16:56 and also, 21:17:02 [n | n <- blah, a] 21:17:02 main = print $ sum (filter (\x -> x `mod` 3 == 0 || x `mod` 5 == 0) [1..999]) 21:17:03 a is filtered 21:17:04 1000-1 isn't bizarre 21:17:04 That's my solution. 21:17:09 mm 21:17:12 !haskell sum [n | n <- [1..999], 0 `elem` map (n `mod`) [3,5]] 21:17:13 233168 21:17:17 pikhq: that wasn't what you said first 21:17:30 main = print . sum . filter (\x -> x `mod` 3 == 0 || x `mod` 5 == 0) $ [1..999] 21:17:31 is better style 21:17:32 ... You're thinking of something different. 21:17:32 btw 21:17:50 AnMaster: his computer crashed :) <-- that hasn't happened in a long while. although occasionally it refuses to start, saying "Operating system not found" <-- how do you fix that when it happens? 21:17:58 reboots, I assume 21:18:06 yeah 21:18:21 it's very intermittent 21:18:36 oerjan, sounds like harddrive issues, if bootloader can't find the OS 21:18:38 -!- zid has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 21:18:39 That's a strange error to get intermittently 21:18:41 yeah 21:18:42 +/~.(3*i.334),5*i.200 21:18:42 hope you have backups 21:18:44 —j solution 21:18:54 oerjan, I seriously hope you have backups... 21:18:55 and it only seems to happen at booting 21:19:11 oerjan, I suspect it is due to a harddrive that is nearing it's end of life 21:19:19 alternatively, some BIOS bug 21:19:27 it has happened occasionally since i got the computer :D 21:19:29 my computer has started sparkling and smoking 21:19:33 oerjan, hm ok 21:19:41 it's 3 years old now 21:19:53 oklodok, shut it off and unplug everthing? 21:20:05 no no just occasionally when i lift it 21:20:06 and stand ready with something to put out any fire 21:20:18 oklodok, err. lift it while running? It is a laptop then? 21:20:38 while it is* 21:20:42 i don't mind it, except i guess i am a bit afraid of leaving it alone. 21:20:52 ... 21:20:55 oklodok, is it a laptop? 21:21:03 i have to put vlc on fullscreen if i don't touch the computer for half an hour, or it crashes 21:21:09 that's another fun thing about this 21:21:10 err what 21:21:22 you heard it 21:21:26 oklodok, sounds like it crashes when screen blanking? 21:21:27 and yes laptop 21:21:29 is that correct? 21:21:31 pikhq: also "sum [3,6..999] + sum [5,10..999] - sum [15,30..999]" 21:21:33 or goes to sleep 21:21:33 which is a fun solution 21:21:36 or similar 21:21:43 interestingly, the most impressive solution is in PHP. 21:21:47 $x = 1000; 21:21:48 echo 1.5*(int)(($x-1)/3)*(int)(($x+2)/3) + 2.5*(int)(($x-1)/5)*(int)(($x+4)/5) - 7.5*(int)(($x-1)/15)*(int)(($x+14)/15); 21:21:50 oklodok, because vlc in full screen mode would prevent sleep and screen blanking 21:21:50 using that wacky formula thing 21:21:56 -!- zid has joined. 21:21:58 it crashes, can't do anything anymore, have to reboot. 21:22:03 so theory is that one of them cause it to crash 21:22:29 oklodok, right, but does it crash in the moment it is about to turn of the monitor due to inactivity or such? 21:22:39 or put disks into stand-by mode 21:22:39 it doesn't do that 21:22:44 i've turned all those features off 21:22:51 hm ok 21:23:06 so something like that, but something vista doesn't explicitly let you control 21:23:19 which fullscreen disables anyway 21:23:23 ehird, what is that formula supposed to do? 21:23:31 AnMaster: see euler problem 1. 21:24:27 um ok 21:24:34 where are solutions listed then? 21:25:01 you have to solve it first. 21:25:10 ehird: Nice solution. 21:25:10 ah, have to create an account and so on then 21:25:29 yes, you have to take two seconds to choose a username and password. 21:25:31 oh, the horror. 21:25:38 ehird, I don't understand how that formula solves that problem. Does anyone? 21:25:47 ehird, and then solve the problems too 21:25:57 AnMaster: Anyone who knows mathematics, yes. Also, oh god, you have to "Find the sum of all the multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000." 21:25:57 sure I can solve that first one at least easily enough 21:25:58 Impossible. 21:26:01 How could we do it?! 21:26:04 iterating and doing it right 21:26:14 ehird, just too lazy 21:26:17 Iterating? Fail. 21:26:26 ehird, it would be one way to solve it 21:26:32 There's a number of easier ways of doing it. 21:26:36 * oerjan swats ehird -----### 21:26:40 pikhq, googling? 21:26:40 It would be a very stupid way. Iteration is almost always retarded. 21:27:09 iterating to 1000 is kinda overkill yeah 21:27:25 ehird: now you're just trolling. even i used iteration, even though i perfectly well know how to calculate triangle numbers 21:27:27 Take the list of numbers below 1000. Remove all those that aren't multiples of 3 or 5. Add up. 21:27:27 it's a sum plus a filter. 21:27:30 biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig deaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal 21:27:34 ehird, summing a list implies some sort of iteration. Even if it is hidden as a sum function 21:27:40 oerjan: you used a for loop? 21:27:42 is this in haskell? 21:27:47 i'd say that's terribly stupid of you if so. 21:27:56 ehird: i consider sum [...] to be iteration 21:28:03 i think oerjan was thinking a different kinda iteration 21:28:03 AnMaster: i can just as easily say that a foor loop is a gloss over a filter. 21:28:05 yeah 21:28:08 ghc would compile it down to iteration anyway 21:28:15 ehird, could say that 21:28:15 you say it your way because you are cpu-biased 21:28:18 (even though i use hugs) 21:28:18 it's theoretically bullshit 21:28:27 and a functional expression isn't fundamentally an iteration 21:28:47 ehird, what sort of computer doesn't implement it through iteration 21:28:59 sum [] = 0;sum (x:xs) = x + sum xs -- I didn't realise that was iteration. 21:29:04 AnMaster: ooh, I'd love to see you across history 21:29:10 "what sort of flying machine doesn't do it by being lighter than air" 21:29:20 therefore, the airplane is bunk. QED. 21:29:25 ehird, I meant current ones 21:29:26 pikhq: point is you can implement it without any iteration 21:29:29 because you can calculate it 21:29:34 ehird, are there any examples of it 21:29:37 AnMaster: i'm sure you'd have said that when the wright brothers started too 21:29:44 that's still the exact same algorithm 21:29:47 sure it might be theoretically possible in the future 21:29:51 just less explicit ordering of the computations 21:29:55 I'm just asking, does any such example exist today 21:29:58 stop trolling ehird 21:30:12 you're very stupid AnMaster. i'm surprised you program in anything but machine code. 21:30:22 ...? 21:30:42 I fail to see how you think this insult would make sense. 21:30:44 * oerjan hands out some drama queen crowns |\/\/| |\/\/| 21:30:55 i want one tooooooo 21:31:05 ok then |\/\/| 21:31:11 BIGGER 21:31:16 but... 21:31:16 only thing I'm asking is if there is any current computer that sums a list through anything but iteration 21:31:22 anyway i need to sleep now 21:31:43 AnMaster: Itanium. 21:31:49 you could of course use for example vector instructions to sum chunks at a time 21:32:10 pikhq, details? 21:32:16 you could use binary branching too 21:32:25 iirc you can load 4 32-bit integers in a SSE register and sum them. but what if you have an array not fitting in your vector unit, whatever size it is. 21:32:32 It's got somewhat silly vector instructions. 21:32:57 pikhq, yes, but tell me of this case that doesn't need iteration to do it 21:33:11 oerjan, binary branching? 21:33:42 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:33:49 sum each half recursively, then combining 21:33:55 for arrays anyway 21:34:08 oerjan, right, Like mergesum? 21:34:18 if that's what it's called 21:34:36 Huh, [1 | True] is [1]. I wonder what source it calls. 21:34:36 -!- coppro has joined. 21:34:38 oerjan, don't know. But isn't mergesort basically the same? "sort each half, then combine" 21:34:40 Ah, sorry. It still iterates. It just does so in parallel. 21:34:45 so the same for summing... 21:34:48 With vector operations. 21:34:53 pikhq, right 21:35:24 you could maybe use summing memory 21:35:46 AnMaster: sure 21:36:08 like CAM but with hardware to sum all in parallel instead of hardware to match all in parallel 21:36:14 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:36:28 doing that would however be rather silly 21:36:30 hi ais523 21:36:31 AnMaster: we managed to get lambdabot to calculate bigger factorials by using that method with products 21:37:00 oerjan, which method do you mean? 21:37:14 it sounds familiar 21:37:17 hi AnMaster 21:37:19 but I don't remmeber details 21:37:24 remember* 21:37:26 recursing and combining 21:37:30 ah right 21:37:37 it obviously works for any associative operation 21:38:00 oerjan, sounds like memoising(sp?) 21:38:09 AnMaster: good grief no 21:38:10 it's not memoizing at all. 21:38:16 wtf made you think that 21:38:23 ehird, not thinking clearly 21:38:30 I was mixing things up 21:38:34 you don't say 21:38:51 it's just because it is better to multiply numbers of approximately equal magnitude, than to multiply large numbers by lots of small ones 21:39:05 oerjan, hm why is that? 21:39:07 so thus splitting up a factorial makes it faster 21:39:10 for floating point yes 21:39:14 but were you using that? 21:39:17 no, for bignums 21:39:37 oerjan, ah hm, maybe there is a reason for that. I don't know how bignums are implemented 21:39:43 we were using ordinary ghc Integers. i think it uses ... damn memory 21:39:55 the gnu library 21:40:15 GMP? 21:40:15 gmp 21:40:18 yes 21:40:35 i think it uses fast fourier transforms for really big numbers 21:40:47 ah. black magic to me 21:41:04 although i'm not sure that applies much to this case 21:41:05 * AnMaster wonders what a slow fourier transforms would be 21:41:24 s/a/ 21:41:28 speaking of bignum 21:41:28 s 21:41:32 http://www.catonmat.net/blog/on-the-linear-time-algorithm-for-finding-fibonacci-numbers/ 21:41:34 good post 21:42:09 There are five multiplication algorithms; "Basecase", "Karatsuba", "Toom-3", "Toom-4" and "FFT"; they're all chosen by thresholds on the size of the numbers involved. http://gmplib.org/manual/Multiplication-Algorithms.html has the details. 21:42:11 we did something with fibonacci too 21:42:24 Five in GMP, I mean. It is rather unlikely there would be no others. 21:42:44 i've always wanted something that's basically "like a float or a double if they were infinite" 21:42:49 i guess Few Digits is basically that 21:45:12 ehird: there's some Computable Real library for haskell 21:45:30 Few Digits 21:45:30 those have some issues though, since comparison is undecidable 21:45:35 that was fixed 21:45:38 oerjan: Few Digits == CReal 21:45:41 oh 21:45:44 > 2/3 :: CReal 21:45:50 oh 21:45:51 no lambdabo 21:45:52 t 21:45:58 !haskell print $ 2/3 :: CReal 21:46:02 !haskell main = print $ 2/3 :: CReal 21:46:03 grumble 21:46:10 no import i guess 21:46:22 i doubt EgoBot even has that library, but who knows 21:47:03 lambdabot has a lot of extras 21:47:04 oerjan: can you ask gwern to put \bot in #esoteric again? i'd feel pushy :P 21:47:18 i'm not even in #haskell you know 21:47:25 oh 21:47:25 well enter. 21:47:28 :p 21:47:34 haven't been for a year or so 21:47:40 why not? 21:48:21 too much talk 21:48:58 Prelude Graphics.Gnuplot.Simple> plotFunc [] [0,0.1..10] sin 21:48:59 ^_^ 21:49:10 pikhq: Throw out yer Maxima! Throw out yer MATLAB! 21:49:30 that Haskell for Maths thing + cabal install gnuplot -fsplitBase -fexecutePipe 21:49:31 :D 21:50:02 -!- AnMaster_ has joined. 21:50:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (Nick collision from services.). 21:50:22 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster. 21:50:54 we did something with fibonacci too 21:50:56 what did I miss? 21:51:03 nothing 21:51:05 oerjan: privmsg gwern then? :P 21:51:07 AnMaster: loads 21:51:08 much? 21:51:17 yes 21:51:19 use tunes, bitch 21:52:04 ehird, anything directed at me? 21:52:06 meh 21:52:14 don't care enough :P 21:52:37 oerjan finally expressed his gayness by proposing to yo. 21:52:38 you 21:52:44 AnMaster: computable reals in haskell 21:52:54 if anyone wanted something important to me they can just say it again. 21:53:06 and bitching about lambdabot not being here to test it 21:53:23 and ehird nagging to have _me_ ask them, when he is the current regular 21:53:26 suuuure... 21:53:34 and oerjan proposing to AnMaster 21:54:04 oh well 21:54:05 * ehird asks 21:54:06 oerjan, why did that bot leave btw? 21:54:09 -!- amuck_ has joined. 21:54:10 also why not test it locally 21:54:10 it crashed 21:54:15 argh 21:54:17 a #haskeller already! 21:54:19 AnMaster: it sometimes crashes 21:54:26 ehird, suuuuuuuuuuuuure.... 21:54:27 AnMaster: installing few digits involves darcs and also it's easier. 21:54:36 ok, AnMaster has a new thing: it's saying "suuuuuuuuuuuuure". 21:54:40 damn lag 21:55:04 AnMaster: if it's still like when i was there, it has something like a memory leak issue that no one could find 21:55:08 ehird, crashing is a side effect ;P 21:55:20 -!- randomity has joined. 21:55:26 so you need a monad for crashing or somehting 21:55:32 but then it has been extensively changed, at least the @run part iiuc 21:55:40 how come #haskellers always come in here in droves when I just mention #esoteic in there 21:55:44 oerjan finally expressed his gayness by proposing to yo. 21:55:46 oerjan: it's mueval now. 21:55:56 you 21:55:57 AnMaster: you forgot my correction! 21:56:00 suuuure... 21:56:02 [...] 21:56:02 oh. 21:56:04 and oerjan proposing to AnMaster 21:56:06 ehird, suuuuuuuuuuuuure.... 21:56:08 * Ping reply from oerjan: 57.94 second(s) <-- btw 21:56:22 we're all searching for a language that's harder to learn than haskell. #esoteric seems like a natural choice... 21:56:27 ehird: and it no longer gives nice error messages for runtime errors, i noticed 21:56:36 oerjan, isn't Haskell supposed to have a GC?... 21:56:39 well some errors anyway 21:56:50 AnMaster: not if it spawns processes that leak... 21:56:59 AnMaster: GC doesn't prevent all memory leaks 21:57:06 ..? 21:57:18 AnMaster: you forgot my correction! 21:57:20 oh. 21:57:22 ..? 21:57:24 err 21:57:26 the lag is so bad I'm over a minute out of sync 21:57:35 stop talking until it fixes then 21:57:43 AnMaster: If you keep a reference to it but never use it. 21:57:44 talking to anyone here would be faster using telegram! 21:57:46 randomity, INTERCAL 21:58:00 AnMaster: telegram? 21:58:06 randomity: Haskell was probably the hardest language to learn that I know. 21:58:07 I doubt that would be faster than IRC 21:58:12 AnMaster: GC doesn't prevent all memory leaks <-- true 21:58:13 ehird: #haskell is full of droves, obviously they come 21:58:21 you /can/ send telegrams nowadays, although I'm not entirely sure how they're deliveired 21:58:24 Of course, I don't know IINTERCAL. 21:58:24 and I'm still lagging badly 21:58:25 INTERCAL is easy 21:58:32 malbolge is not 21:58:34 ehird: it is harder to learn than Haskell, though, IMO 21:58:39 randomity: i was about to say that 21:58:44 hehehe 21:58:46 if you're not a cryptographer, malbolge is the hardest, prolly 21:58:48 I wouldn't say that Malbolge is learnt at all, more cryptanalysed 21:58:50 ais523: no way 21:58:54 intercal is just weird 21:58:58 haskell has a bunch of mind-changers 21:59:00 ehird, waiting for bouncer to join over 60 channels with freenode's rate limiting? Very funny 21:59:12 ehird: well, I found Haskell easier to learn than INTERCAL 21:59:13 AnMaster: you have nobody to blame but yourself. 21:59:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram#Worldwide_discontinuance_of_telegrams lists a rather sorry state of affairs. 21:59:36 AnMaster: telegram? I doubt that would be faster than IRC <-- I feel for ehird. Sometimes. 21:59:38 * Ping reply from oerjan: 70.49 second(s) 21:59:39 ais523: You must love functions. 21:59:47 pikhq: I do 21:59:50 randomity: C++. 22:00:01 Nobody knows all of C++. :P 22:00:05 pikhq: disagree, C++ is easy to learn, just hard to learn well 22:00:10 ehird, I blame freenode 22:00:12 i wonder how i should represent irrationals 22:00:18 ehird, on other servers it is done much much faster 22:00:20 ais523: A subset of C++ is easy to learn. 22:00:35 This is the commonly used subset of the language. 22:00:38 it is just that freenode's rate limiting sucks so much 22:00:55 -!- Associat0r has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:01:01 If you want some mind-warping, do functional programming with the type system. 22:01:18 AnMaster: I still guarantee you, freenode is faster than telegrams 22:01:34 pikhq: that's horrible and broken 22:01:34 [[Hippasus, however, was not lauded for his efforts: according to one legend, he made his discovery while out at sea, and was subsequently thrown overboard by his fellow Pythagoreans “…for having produced an element in the universe which denied the…doctrine that all phenomena in the universe can be reduced to whole numbers and their ratios.”]] 22:01:34 I'm not even sure who handles telegrams nowadays; possibly the postal service 22:01:38 old mathematics are hilarious 22:01:42 randomity: As is the rest of C++. 22:01:49 once they've been sent to near their destination electronically 22:01:55 it's like haskell, without closures, where lambda is template struct { typedef ... } 22:02:14 randomity: unlambda is harder than INTERCAL, but not as hard as Malbolge. in my opinion. 22:02:26 (not that i've programmed in malbolge) 22:02:36 people don't program in malbolge 22:02:48 ais523, it is joining over 70 channels 22:02:50 in fact 22:02:52 Unlambda's not all that hard to learn. Hard to use well, perhaps, but it is just combinators. 22:03:04 i made a variant though. not that anyone has programmed that either. 22:03:10 ais523, I invite you to #feather-lang btw :P 22:03:20 And yes, people don't program in Malbolge. 22:03:36 They do genetic programming for it. 22:03:45 pikhq: wrong 22:03:48 that's just ac 22:03:54 plenty of people since have written in it 22:04:00 one guy mastered it by poking it with a stick 22:04:06 o.O 22:04:08 two other people basically cryptanalyzed it 22:04:12 I'm scared now. 22:04:22 pikhq: there IS a looping 99 bottles of beer in it y'know 22:04:29 written manually 22:05:02 yay lag is gone 22:05:04 finally 22:05:13 about 15 minutes later. 22:05:14 pikhq: non-cooke material: http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml, http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-malbolge-995.html 22:05:17 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Malbolge_programming 22:05:20 ais523, ^ 22:05:25 sure telegram would be slower? 22:05:32 lemme find the second person to do it 22:05:48 http://www.antwon.com/index.php?p=234, darn it disappeared 22:05:56 Hey there, party people. This is Antwon, checking in with his new and exciting web server from whence he can resurrect the full antwon.com experience. 22:05:56 As you may have noticed, all of those nifty goodies like "features" and "content" aren't exactly displaying at this point in time. At the moment, all of my umpteen bazillion posts are stored away in a singular XML file - awesome from a "I did not lose this content!" standpoint, but less so from a "people can actually read my hard-fought years of maniacal writing!" vantage. Rest assured that I am working on things and will get something together Real Soon 22:06:01 Now(tm). 22:06:03 meh, web.archive.org away. 22:06:26 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/823 22:07:17 * ais523 reads discussion about Microsoft's announcement about Mono patents 22:07:27 pikhq: there's a compiler to malbolge apparently 22:07:28 http://www.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/thesis/M2005/i/M350402019e.pdf 22:07:31 http://www.sakabe.i.is.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~nishida/DB/pdf/iizawa05ss2005-22.pdf (japanese) 22:07:35 ehird: O.O 22:07:41 from a C-like language 22:07:52 I'm fucking frightened. 22:07:59 ais523: the responses from the trolls to that were great 22:08:29 ais523: they basically consisted of "that's not a legal promise!" (actually, it was), "they won't hit you, perhaps... instead they'll rape you!" (paraphrased…slightly), etc 22:08:42 yep, there are only two issues that look legit: a) it doesn't cover several common libraries, only C# and .NET itself, and b) Microsoft could sell the patents to someone else, and the someone else could then sue 22:08:57 (a) doesn't matter for most mono apps due to using gtk# and stuff 22:09:01 agreed 22:09:03 although asp.net mvc is kinda popular, whatever 22:09:12 however, I don't think Microsoft particularly care about Mono + GTK# 22:09:24 after all, it hardly lets people run Windows programs 22:09:31 meh 22:09:38 there isn't a windowsforms implementation either 22:09:43 so really, just asp.net is the issue 22:09:49 and it's not even an issue anyway 22:09:54 people just like to complain :P 22:10:05 estoppel was mentioned in the reddit comments, so… 22:10:06 -!- ehird has changed nick to estoppel. 22:10:10 i'm famous. 22:10:14 yep, that's what point b) is about 22:10:20 Microsoft is estopped, nobody else is though 22:11:24 http://ciphersaber.gurus.org/WTCliberties.gif ← I want to make a motivational of this with just a title: "POLITICAL CARTOON" 22:11:35 ais523: I'm pretty sure such a case would be rejected under estoppel anyway; isn't it vague? 22:11:54 estoppel: that would be a massive loophole 22:12:05 eh? 22:12:09 if I promised not to sue you for pirating someone else's music, that wouldn't stop the RIAA doing it 22:12:18 heh 22:13:46 -!- oklodok has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:13:48 this brings to mind that in norway at least you can put restrictions on what people can do with ground property, even when resold. isn't there anything similar in other countries? 22:13:52 [[On second glance, the C code is obviously just a Malbolge interpreter, so I guess there's not really anything useful to get from it (unless we can get it translated). --Rune 21:12, 1 Jun 2006 (UTC) ]] 22:13:55 hmm 22:13:57 -!- oklodok has joined. 22:13:59 anyway 22:14:01 oklodok! 22:14:06 you're a glio duck. 22:14:07 i'm not sure if applies to anything but estate 22:14:10 *it 22:14:20 actually, it's quite hard to be /obviously/ a Malbolge interpreter 22:14:30 surely nobody's memorized the encryption table? 22:14:41 "glio"? 22:14:42 what is that 22:14:46 without knowing that, it would be hard to tell if something was implementing Malbolge, or a similar language with different encryption 22:14:49 `define glio 22:14:50 No output. 22:14:54 apparently it isn't 22:15:02 according to HackEgo, anyway 22:15:10 AnMaster: oklodok's pet word. be kind to it. 22:15:14 ah 22:15:24 [[On second glance, the C code is obviously just a Malbolge interpreter, so I guess there's not really anything useful to get from it (unless we can get it translated). --Rune 21:12, 1 Jun 2006 (UTC) ]] <-- source of citation? 22:15:34 esolang. 22:15:48 the wiki page about malbolge? 22:16:10 talk. 22:16:16 ah 22:17:30 * pikhq wants a Malbolge self-interpreter. 22:17:40 Erm. Malbolge interpreter in Malbolge. 22:17:50 \o~ 22:18:04 pikhq: finite memory 22:18:06 pikhq, could only interpret a smaller program 22:18:10 so, impossible. 22:18:16 [[Irrational number]] doesn't have any ideas for representation :( 22:18:20 estoppel, connect input to output 22:18:24 Oh, right. They made it arbitrarily finite. 22:18:25 get a infinite queue 22:18:30 AnMaster: heh. 22:18:42 estoppel, I read about that somewhere else 22:18:46 talking about malbolge 22:19:07 Malbolge + PSOX is Turing-complete. 22:19:16 hah 22:19:28 Assuming you can do the relevant PSOX support code, that is. 22:19:36 hm? 22:19:53 pikhq, can't you just use PSOX right away as it currently is? 22:20:13 I think you misunderstood. 22:20:19 possibly 22:20:29 *Malbolge* code to actually talk with PSOX. 22:20:35 ah 22:20:45 pikhq, well that should be possible in theory 22:20:53 if you can fit it in the length of the program 22:21:04 That's the tricky bit. 22:21:04 iirc that is limited too 22:21:06 wow at this statistic: fine against Jammie Thomas per song copied = $84000; compensation for family of each person who died in the Air France crash = $24000 22:21:26 ais523, crazy 22:21:30 ais523: Average yearly income ~= $40,000. 22:21:45 that fits well with the other two 22:21:46 pikhq: the basic operations of malbolge are such that it is hard _not_ to make it arbitrarily finite. that's what i tried to fix in my Unshackled variant. 22:22:16 ais523: old, also false 22:22:20 ais523: that $24,000 was the original payment 22:22:28 more came/is coming later 22:22:35 well, ok 22:22:41 it's statistics, it doesn't have to be correct 22:23:17 AnMaster: the program is loaded into memory, so same size bound 22:23:32 yes? I said that 22:23:43 that it was bounded I mean 22:23:44 you didn't say the readon 22:23:46 *reason 22:23:58 oerjan, I knew it, I just didn't spell it out. 22:24:23 food -> 22:24:41 oerjan: is there a way to represent the irrationals apart from as a computation (polynomials count as that) 22:24:43 ? 22:27:06 :t frac 22:27:08 argh 22:29:19 some irrationals cannot be represented as computations >:) 22:29:45 oerjan: well, ok, but they're useless :) 22:29:51 oerjan: assume computable rationals 22:30:21 The computable irrationals may only be represented as a computation or an infinite series of digits. 22:30:35 (in Haskell, of course, the two are equivalent. ;)) 22:30:48 pikhq: problem with digits is you have to pick a base, and that sucks. 22:30:58 Yes, yes it does. 22:31:12 and computations can't be compared. 22:31:30 Indeed. 22:31:45 :( 22:31:48 An infinite series of digits may be compared, but if they're equal, the comparison will never terminate. 22:32:05 so how does creal do it? 22:32:15 it says it don't but it do. 22:32:22 estoppel: oh. in that case use continued fractions. no base involved. 22:32:35 "Also the (==) function returns false if the two CReals are different, and does not terminate if the two CReals have the same value." 22:32:36 Heh. 22:32:43 yes 22:32:47 but it works in lambdabot 22:32:47 dammit. 22:33:03 oerjan: hmm can continued fractions represent rationals? 22:33:12 estoppel: it may be using a cutoff? 22:33:19 oerjan: that would be Evil, I'm sure not. 22:33:27 estoppel: sure, they are _finite_ continued fractions 22:33:38 that's no continued fraction :D 22:33:52 oerjan: It's infinite, actually. 22:34:09 And an infinite number of them have 0 in the numerator. 22:34:10 :P 22:34:12 oerjan: but (significand,exponent) is a bit more efficient than using continued fractions for rationals 22:34:19 * oerjan swats pikhq -----### 22:35:36 estoppel: well you could use a mixed representation 22:35:42 that's so unclean :( 22:36:04 well (significand,exponent) sucks anyway because it's quite close to picking a base 22:36:20 also it doesn't handle infinite-didget endowed rationals 22:36:24 *digit 22:36:27 i forgot now to spell digit... 22:37:01 erm rationals don't have infinite digits 22:37:13 that's, uh, a good point 22:37:23 oerjan: well that's true if you can pick a base 22:37:26 er 22:37:32 err 22:37:34 * oerjan swats himself -----### 22:37:34 you're full of bullshit 22:37:36 on second thoughts 22:37:36 :D 22:37:37 scratch that 22:37:47 i just took it as right 22:37:51 'cuz, like, you're a mathematician 22:38:02 didn't wanna look stupid. 22:38:04 i was thinking numerator/denumerator 22:38:09 *denominator 22:38:41 oerjan: errr 1/3 22:38:58 i see 2 digits there, in total :D 22:39:22 oerjan: oh 22:39:24 lol 22:39:39 anyway right, you can't represent that as (significand,exponent) 22:39:41 hmmm 22:39:43 -!- FireyFly has joined. 22:40:00 1/3 = 0 + 1/3 22:40:00 :-D 22:40:14 (as a ... non-continued fraction) 22:40:27 well that's good then 22:40:33 continued fractions reduce to rationals 22:41:02 oerjan: is there a name for 0.01101110010111011110001001…? 22:41:19 that is, 0.{all integers from 0 up, in binary, concatenated} 22:41:46 hm not any i know 22:41:52 hmm wait 22:41:59 I get how 1/x reduces obviously with a continued fraction 22:42:05 now i need to figure out how to do 2/3 that way 22:42:18 euclidean algorithm essentially 22:42:34 2/3 = 1/(3/2) etc. 22:42:57 oerjan: that sounds dangerously Slow with a capital S. 22:43:07 how so? 22:43:22 it's the algorithm with divmod too 22:43:28 not just subtraction 22:43:29 oerjan: calculating n/m is O(whatever euclidean is), not O(1) 22:43:39 well sure 22:43:40 with (n,m) representation, it's O(1) 22:43:44 obviously 22:43:49 oerjan: hmm 22:43:58 oerjan: what about continued fractions, but instead of just 1 as the numerator, 22:43:59 any integer? 22:44:05 bignums aren't really O(1) anyhow :D 22:44:10 then it just reduces to 2/3 = 0 + 2/3 22:44:15 indeed that's the subject of the post I linked 22:44:19 http://www.catonmat.net/blog/on-the-linear-time-algorithm-for-finding-fibonacci-numbers/ 22:44:25 oerjan: but would that modification change anything? 22:44:27 I wouldn't think so 22:45:22 i don't know how much it changes, it's not like i've tried implementing arithmetic operations on c.f. of either kind 22:45:34 those with only 1 are called simple, iirc 22:45:43 data CF = Add Integer CF | Div Integer CF | Zero 22:45:57 er, wait 22:46:01 we need two types 22:46:21 one thing it messes up is uniqueness of representation, obviously 22:46:32 oerjan: what's wrong with that if the representation isn't exposed? 22:46:52 it may make it harder to do comparisons? 22:46:56 well duh 22:47:06 oerjan: i'll just have a "simplify" function 22:48:41 oerjan: hmm an issue is that I can't `show` irrationals 22:49:10 a cutoff seems inevitable 22:49:34 oerjan: but entering "fullPi" in a REPL and getting an infinite output would be such fun :D 22:49:49 with infinite digits I can do that, with continued fractions not :< 22:49:59 infinite digits has less dependencies, essentially 22:50:06 whereas continued fractions have infinite dependencies 22:50:18 estoppel: you can have a showFull function, of course 22:50:32 oerjan: of type showFull :: CF -> String? 22:50:36 then why can't I have show :: CF -> String? 22:50:39 it can be infinite, you know 22:50:51 it's just that ordinary show is used for embedding things in larger data structures, so you need it to end if you want to show the rest of it 22:50:56 like for (CF, CF) 22:51:02 ahh 22:51:07 I thought you meant it was really impossible :) 22:51:11 oerjan: but I can't end it eg for pi 22:51:15 since they're infinite 22:51:27 there'll never be a Read CF that covers everything 22:51:36 well you've got to make a choice then 22:51:37 oerjan: a cutoff is reasonable, though 22:51:40 for Show 22:52:00 oerjan: not sure how to encode it though; show is stateless 22:52:03 i guess show = myShow 22:52:05 i guess show = myShow 0 rather 22:53:05 oerjan: i think a simplified continued fraction is best 22:53:11 oerjan: so I have one representation, except I won't 22:53:33 oerjan: because you can always make an infinite representation, can't you? 22:53:37 wait, not with 1/ 22:53:39 right? 22:53:50 there is also the question that some numbers are undecidable to print to complete representation 22:54:00 really? 22:54:03 or wait 22:54:24 actually the undecidability might happen already when calculating the c.f. 22:54:42 right 22:54:59 like when doing x - x 22:55:35 oerjan: this doesn't sound nice or fluffy to me. 22:55:46 estoppel: pikhq mentioned you could just append 0's. 1/(0+1/(0+... 22:55:56 um 22:56:00 oerjan: that makes > show 3 → "3<> 22:56:04 that may not be it 22:56:15 oerjan: he was talking about unrestricted numerator. 22:56:32 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 22:56:34 oerjan: with restricted-to-1 numerator, you need a special base case 22:56:40 hm 22:56:46 data CF = Add Integer OneDiv | Zero 22:56:47 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF 22:56:51 ↑ pretty sure this representation is unique 22:56:58 well actually, no 22:57:01 Add 0 foo 22:57:14 oerjan: if I make sure that the Integer in Add is >=1, that representation is unique, isn't it? 22:57:21 all rational and irrational numbers have one representation 22:57:59 um you are missing numbers 0 <= ... < 1 there... 22:58:31 oerjan: ah, right 22:58:36 oerjan: but assuming numbers <1 don't exist 22:58:42 that's unique, right? 22:58:51 actually 22:58:56 yeah 22:58:58 just answer the q :P 22:59:05 probably 22:59:17 -!- olsner has joined. 22:59:44 er 22:59:51 you have infinity in there 23:00:00 i think Zero is in the wrong place 23:00:02 if it's impossible to get unique representations for all rational and irrational numbers, please do tell me, btw 23:00:11 also, you're right. 23:00:40 estoppel: I strongly suspect it's possible to get unique representations for all rational numbers. 23:00:46 pikhq: well i know that 23:00:48 what about irrationals 23:01:01 The irrational numbers cannot necessarily be represented. 23:01:03 but you also want to disallow one of 0 + 1/1 or 1 23:01:29 pikhq: computable irrationals 23:02:05 estoppel: Then it's obvious that there's a unique representation for them. 23:02:32 good 23:02:34 data CF = Add Integer OneDiv 23:02:35 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF | Zero 23:02:35 -!- FireyFly has quit (Connection timed out). 23:02:57 oerjan: so from this what constraints do we use? i want to include negative numbers and 0 here 23:02:58 no cheating 23:03:28 negative numbers needs sign somehow 23:03:41 oerjan: Add (-2) Zero 23:03:59 that's just going to mess up things 23:04:03 it is? 23:04:11 oh well maybe not 23:04:20 but you already disallowed Add 0 _ 23:04:30 oerjan: btw we can still represent 1/0 23:04:39 Add 0 (OneDiv (Add 0 Zero)) 23:04:47 -!- M0ny has quit. 23:04:47 NULLITY! 23:04:57 er so you allow 0? 23:05:02 oh well 23:05:02 oerjan: oops 23:05:18 oerjan: ok, no zero allowed 23:05:27 data CF = Add {-(/= 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:05:27 data OneDiv = OneDiv CF | Zero 23:05:32 is our current constraint set 23:05:35 you seriously need a data type that is >= 1 only 23:05:46 oerjan: yes, but I'm not using bloody peano 23:05:51 gmp is nice :P 23:05:58 oerjan: these constructors aren't public, anyawy 23:05:58 and use it in OneDiv 23:05:59 anyway 23:06:02 so nobody else can access them 23:06:15 oerjan: well, what would I do? 23:06:28 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 23:06:55 require >= 1 integer in CF there 23:07:12 and have another data type for all reals 23:07:26 oerjan: 23:06 oerjan: require >= 1 integer in CF there ;; with what? I don't really want to, as gmp is fast. 23:08:29 well you'll just have to have runtime assertion then 23:08:42 oerjan: what does that buy me? nothing at all 23:08:52 over just not writing (Add n) without checking n isn't 0 23:08:59 estoppel: i'm not saying literally 23:09:06 eh? 23:09:18 oerjan: "{-(/ 0)-} Integer" is my pet constraint description convention 23:09:20 */= 23:09:44 i mean if you insist on using Integers, while c.f.'s are based on naturals, then you'll have to have runtime assumptions 23:10:17 well yeah 23:10:18 that's fine 23:10:18 also, you seriously don't want 1/(-1 + 1/...) to occur 23:10:43 oerjan: hrm why not? 23:10:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:10:57 no uniqueness whatsoever? 23:11:01 ah 23:11:17 weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell 23:11:37 oerjan: can all negative reals be represented as -real? 23:11:48 sure, duh 23:11:54 oh 23:11:55 duh 23:11:56 XD 23:12:20 oerjan: ok, 23:12:20 data Add = Add {-(> 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:12:21 data OneDiv = OneDiv Add | Zero 23:12:23 data CF = Positive Add | Negative Add 23:12:29 other constraints, i assume, must be applied. 23:12:51 CF needs a few more cases 23:13:06 you are missing all of (-1, 1) i think 23:13:20 oerjan: you mean like 0.4? 23:13:28 yes 23:13:30 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:13:40 oerjan: right you are. that's why I have > 0 there. 23:13:46 unfortunately, solving one problem introduces another. 23:13:55 oerjan: do you mean like adding | MinusOne Add? 23:13:58 so 23:14:09 MinusOne (Add 1 (OneDiv (Add 2 Zero))) 23:14:11 → 0.5 23:15:00 that certainly destroys uniqueness again 23:15:14 oerjan: right you are. 23:15:14 0.4 is logically contained in OneDiv 23:15:25 oerjan: no it's not, due to the Add dependency 23:15:34 yes it is 23:15:39 how 23:15:53 "we've made it easy to re-enable the beta label for Gmail from the Labs tab under Settings" 23:15:57 hahahaha 23:16:02 0.4 = 1/(2.5) ? 23:16:13 ais523: zzo anyone? 23:16:37 oerjan: hmm 23:16:48 oerjan: yes, because 4.0 = 1 / (0.25) 23:16:49 oerjan: is 2.5 contained in Add, though? 23:16:53 also you need to be careful about negative zero 23:16:57 estoppel: of course 23:17:06 oerjan: so I don't miss (-1,1). 23:17:09 Add is all x >= 1 23:17:30 oerjan: 23:16 oerjan: 0.4 = 1/(2.5) ? 23:17:32 you said it yourself 23:17:44 but 0.4 is _not_ contained in Add 23:17:53 Add and OneDiv are disjoint 23:17:55 oerjan: ah. right 23:18:10 oerjan: this is terribly confusing 23:18:38 that's because you're trying too hard to make a small number of elegant cases, i think 23:18:47 oerjan: not really 23:19:00 oerjan: i just keep having to restructure as you come up with more things :D 23:19:04 Add as >= 1 is fine 23:19:53 data Add = Add {-(> 0)-} Integer OneDiv 23:19:56 so that is still correct? 23:20:03 sort of 23:20:21 oerjan: "sort of"? 23:20:25 problem is you want something that is OneDiv except Zero 23:20:33 data OneDiv = OneDiv Add | Zero 23:20:34 got that 23:20:49 otherwise you get a negative Zero when putting things together the obvious way 23:21:04 oh, you mean Negative (Add 0 Zero)? 23:21:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 23:21:22 Add 0 Zero does not exist 23:21:26 oops 23:21:31 oerjan: so we DON'T have negative zero 23:21:36 so quit yer yappin' bout it! 23:21:44 estoppel: you have not put everything together yet 23:21:55 you are still missing (-1, 1) in the final datatype 23:22:01 true. and i won't for, say, 12 hours. buh bye! thanks for your help. 23:22:02 → 23:22:13 * oerjan swats estoppel -----### 23:22:17 -!- amuck_ has quit. 23:22:22 JUST BE THAT WAY :D 23:22:50 -!- estoppel has changed nick to ehird. 23:24:29 * pikhq jaw-drops 23:24:37 IE usage is now down to 56% overall. 23:25:00 link 23:25:25 -!- coppro has quit ("The only thing I know is that I know nothing"). 23:25:38 You go away. No. 23:25:54 but, link? 23:28:08 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 23:29:32 -!- sebbu has quit ("@+"). 23:31:45 -!- coppro has joined. 23:34:28 hmm... latest browser news: statistics show IE market share dropped 8% in a month, nobody believes them 23:34:47 the web statistic sites are assuming it's some sort of error in the way the data was collected 23:35:03 well 46% of all statisticians are liars, anyway