< 1247011208 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247011995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link? < 1247012114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I saw it on Slashdot < 1247012117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably still there < 1247012146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the links are http://marketshare.hitslink.com/status.aspx and http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-na-daily-20080701-20090707, apparently, but I didn't follow them < 1247012158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't actually follow links at Slashdot, they just read the summary < 1247012184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last I looked slashdot was large < 1247012217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot is fucking huge. < 1247012351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where on slashdot ais523 < 1247012359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: main page < 1247012365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably near the top < 1247012391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third entry atm < 1247012589 0 :lambdabot!n=lambdabo@animaforge.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1247012655 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247012792 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1247012805 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247012826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_< < 1247012829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I know the cause < 1247012849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new major firefox version release. Thus some clients counted more than once, once for old user agent, once for new < 1247012853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, plausible? < 1247012866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, could be plausible < 1247012877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it was a drop in IE, rather than a rise in Firefox < 1247012877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fun.cycle$"lambda! "::Expr < 1247012879 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lam... < 1247012880 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lambda! lam... < 1247012883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drop was filled by Firefox, Safari and Chrome < 1247012886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1247012890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the? < 1247012893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not just one < 1247012929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : test < 1247012952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot: > 2+2 < 1247012961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: > 2+2 < 1247012969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1247012975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @run 2+2 < 1247012976 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247012977 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247012983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1247012997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that actually proves nothing < 1247013016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247013035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1247013046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 might be able to explain it < 1247013057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc thutubot is his bit < 1247013058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bot* < 1247013060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1247013069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247013071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run 2+2 < 1247013072 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247013072 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247013089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen who are you? < 1247013089 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, i'm me! < 1247013090 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, i'm me! < 1247013095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1247013103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen how do you feel? < 1247013103 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you want < 1247013104 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you want < 1247013107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to explain what the hell is going on < 1247013123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@vixen Microoptimisation of gnomes < 1247013123 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna hear a story? < 1247013123 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna hear a story? < 1247013142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm lessee < 1247013144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone's /msging thutubot < 1247013155 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this < 1247013155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that quickly? < 1247013156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d3 < 1247013156 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3 => 3 < 1247013157 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3 => 3 < 1247013164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how strange < 1247013174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would someone set up a lambdabot -> thutubot relay? < 1247013181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's funny? < 1247013181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you tell us who? < 1247013194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not easily, thutubot isn't saving debug data anywhere < 1247013198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIR < 1247013199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not particularly < 1247013208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stdout? < 1247013226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how did you produce the "like this"? < 1247013239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1247013241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what command < 1247013246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prefix < 1247013273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just using +ul? < 1247013278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (test)S < 1247013278 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1247013285 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1247013285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1247013287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait yes < 1247013289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1247013303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that is weird < 1247013306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not return it to sender? < 1247013312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg thutubot +ul (test)S < 1247013318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returns it to channel < 1247013320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sender < 1247013322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot is printing everything sent to it, and people haven't been /msging it until I suggested it < 1247013345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @dice 1d3 < 1247013346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d3 < 1247013347 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3 => 2 < 1247013347 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d3 => 2 < 1247013352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happened just there < 1247013385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that is weird; thutubot didn't see itself sending that < 1247013391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul test < 1247013407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, but it isn't seeing its own sends anyway < 1247013414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha, I've figured it out < 1247013420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's thutubot's +haskell command < 1247013424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+haskell 2+2 < 1247013435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to send the message to lambdabot, then relay the response < 1247013438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's broken, though < 1247013446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1247013447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1247013454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in two ways: a) it isn't sending on to lambdabot, and b) it's repeating everything lambdabot says < 1247013456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken both ways < 1247013953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247014210 0 :immibis!n=IceChat7@125-238-252-206.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1247014576 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1247015107 0 :darthnuri!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1247015144 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1247015867 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@cpe-72-132-164-88.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247015873 0 :darthnuri!n=nuri@cpe-72-132-164-88.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247017029 0 :darthnuri!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1247017074 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1247017084 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ASCII a stupid question, get a stupid ANSI!" < 1247018347 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@cpe-72-132-164-88.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247018682 0 :darthnuri!n=nuri@cpe-72-132-164-88.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247018978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1247020010 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247020035 0 :oklodol!n=nnscript@h028068.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1247020783 0 :sebbu3!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247020984 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247021012 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247021050 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1247021307 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1247021833 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247027354 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :arachneng < 1247027366 0 :arachneng!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :lifthrasiir < 1247029038 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247029380 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1247033050 0 :Associat0r!n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1247033754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html < 1247033756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-S < 1247033909 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247034084 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1247034654 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The only thing I know is that I know nothing" < 1247034729 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1247036002 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: just another crucial step in google's plot to take over the world.. muahaha. < 1247036544 0 :GuestShadowSkunk!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-126-165.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247037308 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247039999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1247040000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1247042723 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1247044570 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@82.182.180.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247044760 0 :Associ8or!n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1247044802 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Five in GMP, I mean. It is rather unlikely there would be no others. <<< you can get an infinite descent of asymptotically better multiplication algos by extending the divide-and-conquer method of karatsuba; but i don't know how fft is done for numbers, if it's O(n lg n) it's beyond that descent < 1247044816 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought fft only made sense for polys < 1247044864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://numbers.computation.free.fr/Constants/Algorithms/fft.html has a shortish explanation. < 1247044978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually the GMP manual explains what they do, too. < 1247045385 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: pikhq: problem with digits is you have to pick a base, and that sucks. <<< you can use other kinds of series, like continued fractions; but really there's no need to have an explicit representation until you print < 1247045399 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: estoppel: oh. in that case use continued fractions. no base involved. <<< right, i was already here < 1247045741 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@90.55.58.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247045786 0 :Pthing!n=pthing@77.100.194.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247045815 0 :Associat0r!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1247045846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247046244 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what year is that idea from? < 1247046277 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought there was no known n lg n for multiplication, even though i knew fft does that for polynomials < 1247046352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Schönhage and Strassen paper referred to in the GMP manual are from 1971, but I haven't actually read it, so I don't know what they promise w.r.t. multiplication. < 1247046433 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1247046454 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay right, seems you can reduce the multiplication to multiplication of polynomials < 1247046482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/is/ there. < 1247046577 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was the problem, i thought i saw something weird there < 1247046617 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and a final rearrangement on the coefficients of R(z) permits to obtain the product XY" what rearrangement? < 1247046679 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-0-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1247047325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would peek at the 1971 paper, but based on the title -- "Schnelle Multiplikation grosser Zahlen" -- it is probably in German. And that other page refers to a paper called "Multiplication en le Lisp" in French. < 1247047349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's a less overviewy explanation in the tubes, though. < 1247047371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/introducing-google-chrome-os.html <-- Is it based on linux or from scratch? < 1247047373 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i already decrypted the page < 1247047378 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from scratch < 1247047387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1247047391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says linux there < 1247047393 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's the impression i got < 1247047396 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1247047406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel." < 1247047462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically you can't use it where there is no internet connection I guess < 1247047467 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't see the relevance of that info, so i guess i wouldn't remember the fact either. < 1247047606 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's made for "people who live on the net" < 1247047635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol, yes right, but what if you are traveling and there happen to be no public wlan where you are or such. < 1247047644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no mobile phone connection either < 1247047707 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think there's some offline happenings too. but i just took a glance at the public info thingie. < 1247047709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should be getting out of such a dark place. < 1247047716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With rapidity. < 1247047722 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what fizzie said < 1247047737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was travelling by train from Kiruna (in north Sweden) down to the south parts of Sweden a few weeks ago. Except around the towns the mobile phone mostly reported no connection or extremely bad one. < 1247047746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have Telia < 1247047748 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't swim if internet don't stream < 1247047752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is known for good coverage. < 1247047790 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statisticians say 97% of finland is covered by connective flow. < 1247047793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember when I've last been outside GPRS coverage; of course online activities at "a kilobyte every now and then" speeds might not be so pleasant. < 1247047802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that was outside GSM even! < 1247047861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since my phone tends to switch over to some other carrier and say "emergency calls only" if Telia isn't reachable but even that didn't happen, I assume outside all coverage. < 1247047988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the distance between Kiruna and Boden there was no coverage at all < 1247047990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page I found about the 97 % GSM coverage is from 2001, they might've improved that a tiny bit. Anyway, if you don't get the internets, it's your own fault for going to such a silly place. < 1247048000 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1247048007 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually *is* 97? < 1247048021 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol: It was, according to http://www.eduskunta.fi/faktatmp/utatmp/akxtmp/kk_945_2001_p.shtml < 1247048030 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically just let the flow tell the coverage to me. < 1247048031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh in Finland? < 1247048032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for Sonera's GSM network. < 1247048035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not worldwide < 1247048039 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just felt it < 1247048046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have no idea about other places. < 1247048079 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if i can feel statistics correct nowadays. < 1247048082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I'm sure the thing will have at least some offline functionality. < 1247048095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in south Sweden I tend to get at least one "dot" on the connection quality indicator thingy on the phone < 1247048101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everywhere < 1247048127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is probably still some out-of-GSM-coverage areas up there in Lapland. < 1247048138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite a lot even < 1247048194 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3% of finland is not that much < 1247048208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know about "lot". They do claim that 97 % is geographically speaking, not "amount of people", so... < 1247048209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Sweden I meant < 1247048242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, start building base stations then! < 1247048314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, probably will cover one house each at most... Up there you can go on for miles without seeing a single house, or even a road crossing the railway. < 1247048361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we've managed to cover 97 % (at least) of our surface area, you should too. < 1247048368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly worth it along the railroad/railway (what is the diff? Is one US and one UK?), but apart from that it wouldn't be economically viable I bet. < 1247048398 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about viability < 1247048403 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about ability < 1247048429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol, who pays? < 1247048442 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taxpayers? < 1247048473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gov owns Sonera? < 1247048494 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest taxpayers pay straight to sonera. < 1247048575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't seem to find very specific information about the current situation here. From what I've seen, a single station can cover a reasonably large distance if you stick it on top of a fell, if you don't mind the fact that some of the valley-like parts get left out. < 1247048614 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do mind < 1247048661 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-128-107.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1247048663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think large parts up there, are "nationalparker" < 1247048668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what that is in English < 1247048683 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1247048690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see Sonera's map, it's at http://mobileplaza.sonera.fi/matkapuhelin/kuuluvuus_kotimaassa.html -- it is clickable for closer look, and the colors for the detailed maps are: white = no-coverage, grey = needs-an-external-antenna, blue = normal GSM/GPRS, yellow = EDGE, green = 3G things. < 1247048729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too much white in there, but still some. < 1247048730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protected areas of nature, you aren't allowed to do anything that will change it basically. < 1247048758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is EDGE? < 1247048782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some sort of GPRS speed-upgrade, I think it was called "2.5G" somewhere too. < 1247048791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution". < 1247048806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE < 1247048830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1247048838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s --" though that's very much a theoretical thing only. < 1247048975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3G coverage is rather poor, though, pretty much cities only. < 1247049026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And special places; it seems they've stuck a single 3G base station at the Koli ski resort place, for example. < 1247049038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1247049052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that some famous tourist attraction or such? < 1247049083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not "famous" but I guess it's reasonably popular. < 1247049111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Famous enough to have a Wikipedia article about it (well, not the ski resort, but the adjacent national park): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koli_National_Park < 1247049255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1247049269 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247049271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it is national park in English too? < 1247049273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1247049276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1247049297 0 :GuestShadowSkunk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247049331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "national park" is certainly a concept in English < 1247049331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can't tell if it's the same one you're referring to without more context < 1247049368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the shutting-down of the ages-old 450 MHz analog NMT mobile phone network, they've reused that frequency range for the "@450" mobile broadband (1M/512k) which I guess has a better coverage than the 3G; 90 % of population, though that translates to some much lower percentage of geographical area. < 1247049426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protected area of nature, you aren't allowed to do basically anything that can change it with some exceptions. < 1247049441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "ages-old" is a bit of an exaggeration: "The world's first NMT call was made in Tampere, Finland, in 1978.[1] The NMT network was opened in Sweden and Norway in 1981, and in Denmark and Finland in 1982." < 1247049492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want an "official definition" for a national park, I guess this listing suffices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Commission_on_Protected_Areas < 1247049500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyday use might differ, there you have to ask one of the natives. < 1247049901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247049978 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247050157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247050169 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247050219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1247050232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1247050239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The term "concerning" shall mean relating to, referring to, reflecting, describing, evidencing, referencing, discussing or constituting. < 1247050345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, and Google are writing their own OS, using Linux's kernel (and presumably drivers, etc.) but none of the rest of the stuff that's normally used together with the kernel < 1247050387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you logread, you'd know it was the original source for what led to the "national park" discussion. < 1247050391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't. Woe is you! < 1247050406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't normally have the focus to logread < 1247050420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were one of them IBM's lawyers, I'd add "concering" itself somewhere in the middle of that list. < 1247050426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1247050740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247050812 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247051026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1247051117 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh so it is national park in English too? <<< what part of "same" did you not understand < 1247051131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol, where did you say it was the same? < 1247051144 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:24… AnMaster: not sure what that is in English < 1247051145 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:24… oklodol: same < 1247051186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol, ah, missed that < 1247051205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol: You are so terse. < 1247051214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see the "same" either. < 1247051235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does that sound like an insult? "Ha ha, you're so terse!" < 1247051244 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because terse also means stupid < 1247051258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wordnet only lists: # S: (adj) crisp, curt, laconic, terse (brief and to the point; effectively cut short) "a crisp retort"; "a response so curt as to be almost rude"; "the laconic reply; `yes'"; "short and terse and easy to understand" < 1247051263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it could. < 1247051279 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1247051295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're not one of those tersies, are you?" < 1247051299 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least something very close to it means stupid, or is used that way. < 1247051321 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your pun just deceived my brain < 1247051324 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1247051336 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it wouldn't have been a pun then < 1247051409 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's dense. < 1247051412 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took quite a while < 1247051437 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because i didn't think about it, but still < 1247052110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had written that word already, then decided not to mention it for some reason. < 1247052127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I typoed "I had written that world already" first. Meaningful? < 1247052152 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be+ < 1247052153 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1247053090 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1247053132 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oogie! < 1247053209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oclum < 1247053230 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm feeling glemifandulous. < 1247053276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that _does_ sort of sound like a problem with the brain, possibly the language center... < 1247053392 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1247053401 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :superglio < 1247053467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glial_cell < 1247053523 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure how that's helpful < 1247053543 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've told numerous times there's a well-known connection between all that is gli and all that is glue. < 1247053563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1247053564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they sort of stick together < 1247053571 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1247053574 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're funny < 1247053578 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1247053581 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1247053582 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1247053585 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokookokokokokoko < 1247053810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol: that's easy when you have perfect straight men < 1247053828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O-cock-o. < 1247053836 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rococo < 1247053914 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i get it even with fizzie's explanaiton < 1247053916 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*explanation < 1247053919 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1247053936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exploitation? < 1247053955 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should really buy those oculatory aids. < 1247054076 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1247054254 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247054428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also I typoed "I had written that world already" first. Meaningful? < 1247054433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah; since GPRS is called "2.5G" by some, and not everyone counts EDGE as "3G" since it's so sucky, some people apparently seriously refer to EDGE as a "2.75G" technology. < 1247054441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you have subconscious delusions of grandeur < 1247054486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where will it end? Soon there'll be a πG thing. < 1247054518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumes that character is a pi < 1247054555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for texnological reasons < 1247054558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what it should be. < 1247054594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a pi here < 1247054694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is too lazy to go back to the logs to check right after he closed the page < 1247054750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you all know already i'm too lazy to set up unicode correctly < 1247055411 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1247056681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1247056707 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1247057005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247057117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1247057119 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"What are you sinking about?" < 1247058381 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247058841 0 :oklodol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ogliopol < 1247059995 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay don't copy that was awesome :D < 1247062710 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247062719 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247062957 0 :Associ8or!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"#proglangdesign #ltu ##concurrency" < 1247063366 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247063373 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=user@79.174.35.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247063729 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1247064383 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/freenode/x-ca36f4b1e60189d0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247065123 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Page closed" < 1247065306 0 :Associat0r!n=Associat@62.194.163.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247066727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247067445 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247068277 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glia < 1247068301 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get lilja to start saying flia. < 1247068302 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*glia < 1247068408 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1247068594 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1247069189 0 :darthnuri!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1247069382 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@rrcs-74-62-7-76.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247069385 0 :darthnuri!n=nuri@rrcs-74-62-7-76.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247070048 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1247070048 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1247070078 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1247070266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1247070285 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1247070298 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko < 1247070310 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone speak italian here? < 1247070311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I thought the next one would have 24 os < 1247070341 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 1, 2, 6, 24? < 1247070346 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just 2, 6, 24 < 1247070833 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247070840 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@81-224-42-23-no80.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247073129 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1247073201 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@81-224-42-23-no80.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247073206 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1247073234 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1247074588 0 :ogliopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1247075220 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@81-224-42-23-no80.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247075226 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1247075253 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1247076889 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1247077269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1247077318 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1247079276 0 :darthnuri!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1247079553 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1247080785 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1247081116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i ehird or estoppel? < 1247081117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1247081121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1247081238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:24:37 IE usage is now down to 56% overall. < 1247081248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah suure < 1247081250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the stats from < 1247081252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox.com? < 1247081254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it dropped 8% in a month, as a result nobody believes the statistics < 1247081256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*where's < 1247081273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least three of the major web stats people noticed it, but assumed it was something giving an incorrect reasing < 1247081274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reading < 1247081275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the kind of websites to release such statistics tend to not be frequented by IE users < 1247081280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tbh, I think it's something like that too < 1247081281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say it's bullshit < 1247081304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a drop that sudden is unbelievable, something must have confused the browser detection < 1247081326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: google started running Chrome ads on TV in the usa... < 1247081330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just remembered < 1247081338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like we've found our culprit. maybe. < 1247081349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but firefox, chrome, and safari all stayed in proportion to each other < 1247081352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wondered why at the time, now it's obvious innit, chrome os < 1247081360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, true < 1247081387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone mentioned that that was about the release of IE8; IE8 taking 8% from IE7 is sort-of believable, and it could be that something's messed up in typical IE8 detection < 1247081428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay we have lambdabot now < 1247081434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2 < 1247081435 0 :lambdabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247081436 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1247081436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^__^ < 1247081446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why thutubot is mirroring lambdabot < 1247081457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:32:24 AnMaster: someone's /msging thutubot < 1247081467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thutubot is misinterpreting lambdabot's response as a message I think < 1247081488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg doesn't even do anything < 1247081499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:37:15 it's meant to send the message to lambdabot, then relay the response < 1247081500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:37:18 it's broken, though < 1247081501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it wasn't that, we found the correct answer eventually < 1247081501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1247081510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: remove it then, so it doesn't make using lambdabot annoying? < 1247081518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+haskell that is < 1247081522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it is just a cheap joke < 1247081524 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but msging thutubot with instructions does reply to #esoteric < 1247081575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:04:22 So basically you can't use it where there is no internet connection I guess < 1247081575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:07:15 oklodol, yes right, but what if you are traveling and there happen to be no public wlan where you are or such. < 1247081585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaah in a few years everyone will have mobile broadband. < 1247081600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud < 1247081649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't even have a regular mobile phone < 1247081659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mobile broadband has nothing to do with mobiles < 1247081664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from usually being over the same network < 1247081671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and both costing insanely large amounts of money < 1247081685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you have a queer definition of insane < 1247081698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's some pounds a month < 1247081756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:27:18 "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s --" though that's very much a theoretical thing only. < 1247081764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDGE can carry 236kbits my ass. < 1247081767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit better than dialup. < 1247081801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:37:06 protected area of nature, you aren't allowed to do basically anything that can change it with some exceptions. < 1247081803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1247081806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nobody can walk in them? < 1247081818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has to be stored at 0K < 1247081824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you chaos theory! DAMN YOU ENTROPY! < 1247081852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:53:26 no, I don't normally have the focus to logread < 1247081856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was something about something < 1247081860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i directed at you if you logread < 1247081861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme grep < 1247081870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:50:31 I wish ais523 logread. < 1247081870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:50:36 "One thing I found puzzling was that the Brits consistently apologized for and/or denigrated Birmingham." < 1247081872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:50:41 —Bruce Eckel, http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=261930 < 1247081928 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1247081934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodol is so glio. < 1247081948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gliissimo < 1247081969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:00:33 Hah; since GPRS is called "2.5G" by some, and not everyone counts EDGE as "3G" since it's so sucky, some people apparently seriously refer to EDGE as a "2.75G" technology. < 1247081975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :piG. < 1247081983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's marginally better than 3G, but costs pi more moneys a month. < 1247081991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fizzie said that < 1247081995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn logs corruptin' < 1247082021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than exponential corruption < 1247082029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HURF HURF DURF TURF < 1247082046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does the heimlich maneuver on ehird  < 1247082055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you say you're not gay. < 1247082072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders when he said that < 1247082078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the opposite < 1247082101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should ask colin percival if i could get a bulk discount on tarsnap; i don't particularly feel like paying $696 a month if I feel like filling up my entire future 2.32TB harddrives with completely uncompressable, 100% random data < 1247082121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PER BACKUP! PLUS BANDWIDTH! < 1247082124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the huge manatee. < 1247082383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud < 1247082399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:46 oerjan: designing something to account for people without the net is stupid, although I'm no fan of the cloud < 1247082400 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should account for temporary net loss, certainly < 1247082406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a few minutes. < 1247082427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not unthinkable that in ten years, an area without internet would be considered dangerous < 1247082434 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1247082498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :few minutes? when someone dug into a cable in this neighborhood it certainly took more than a few minutes to fix it... < 1247082533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i assume they dug into a cable, someone was digging on the main road and internet disappeared, 2+2) < 1247082555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're more and more dependent on the interwebs. i truly think in a few years that long internet outages will become an unacceptable inconvenience and in a few more it'll be serious < 1247082584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pseudo-analogy: it takes more than a few minutes to fix cut power to a city, too. < 1247082597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1247082602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean we should design everything around not having power? < 1247082604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think not < 1247082609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1247082621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... They're acceptable now? < 1247082639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh :) < 1247082655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: if all else fails, I'm sure we can send our packets up INTO SPACE < 1247082661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU HEARD, PIKHQ HAS SATELLITE INTERNET! IN SPACE! < 1247082680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course _big_ telecom disconnects get fixed fast. my father who is a telecom engineer tells me the contracts include some hefty fines... < 1247082690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: netbooks are partly desired because of their long battery life < 1247082695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, they are designed around not having power < 1247082701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no they're not < 1247082705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're designed around having portable power < 1247082723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what mobile internet-based devices are designed around? < 1247082725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having portable internet. < 1247082746 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@rrcs-74-62-7-76.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1247082765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable inurinternet. < 1247082898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has anyone told graue about the undeletable spam? < 1247082916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1247082917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clue me in < 1247082919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the issue < 1247082928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(should that be undeletable or undeleteable?) < 1247082942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra < 1247082945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :une deli table < 1247082947 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former < 1247082950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how's it undeletable < 1247082962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if you prefer, indelible < 1247082965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: graue put up a spam filter against that sort of thing < 1247082972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1247082973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any attempt to edit or delete it triggers the spam filter :D < 1247082977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that nobody, not even admins, can do anything even referencing the page < 1247082981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from look at it < 1247082984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might have some ideas < 1247082998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mediawiki has an XML-RPC interface doesn't it? < 1247083006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, but it isn't enabled on Esolang < 1247083008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that too < 1247083010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck! < 1247083033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i say, btw, that the spam filter is shit anyway? < 1247083036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never stops any spam. < 1247083059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are any of the other APIs enabled? < 1247083078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is the url escaping of characters again? < 1247083083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as far as I can tell; the one in core is disabled, and all the others are uninstalled extensions < 1247083083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%hex ? < 1247083083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra?action=edit§ion=55 < 1247083086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can edit it < 1247083087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: %hex, 2 digits < 1247083087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra?action=edit§ion=55 < 1247083090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have to add a new section < 1247083093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: try previewing < 1247083096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1247083102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saving comes to the same thing < 1247083115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is the filter blocks POST but not GET < 1247083119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe, a bit of both < 1247083127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems to block POST consistently, and GET only sometimes < 1247083128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should really move esolang off that crappy server with the crappy category policy. :P < 1247083135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:454_buy_viagra doesn't load any more < 1247083137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddidido < 1247083148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it works but without c ss < 1247083149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :css < 1247083162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn didn't help < 1247083183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the save removed the escape too < 1247083184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1247083189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what actions can you do to pages again? < 1247083198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah i've seen that css thing < 1247083202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off the top of my head, view raw edit delete protect < 1247083207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and history < 1247083208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you protect it < 1247083211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a few more I've forgotten < 1247083219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't tried protecting it, although that would be rather ridiculous < 1247083233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try it, hitting buttons won't do any harm at least < 1247083251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :famous last words :D < 1247083265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nope, same problem < 1247083272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I can't follow any of the links from the protect page < 1247083274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case, we lose a few copies of definitions, some literature on them, and a bunch of useless languages :D < 1247083278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the referrer seems to be blocking things < 1247083282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: aha < 1247083284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to say that < 1247083289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make a POST to delete it without any referer < 1247083294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a referer blocker or curl or something < 1247083306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see if I can find a referer blocker Firefox extension < 1247083318 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: refcontrol < 1247083324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd be easier just to use curl imo < 1247083339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1247083341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://cafe.elharo.com/privacy/privacy-tip-3-block-referer-headers-in-firefox/ < 1247083348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just set network.http.sendRefererHeader to 0 < 1247083351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's not out of date < 1247083368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: referers are helpful on certain other sites, though < 1247083373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so turn it off afterwards < 1247083375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a couple of my user scripts rely on them, for instance < 1247083376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a one time thing... < 1247083392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a referer-blocker will be useful, esolang blocks all sorts of random referers for no good reason < 1247083400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, ok < 1247083496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"User:454 buy viagra" has been deleted. See deletion log for a record of recent deletions. < 1247083510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1247083515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Precondition Failed < 1247083515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The precondition on the request for the URL /wiki/Special:Recentchanges evaluated to false. < 1247083516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1247083525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now /that's/ bad < 1247083534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just cuz i came from viagra < 1247083536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr < 1247083538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reword that < 1247083549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the perms to remove a deletion log entry < 1247083557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean < 1247083558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :referer < 1247083560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the problem < 1247083561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1247083565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, fair enough < 1247083566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refreshing fixed i < 1247083566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1247083569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1247083579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's mod_security that's fucking up this stuff < 1247083584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember on my old shared hosting < 1247083585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does mod_security do? < 1247083588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't submit a form saying "Perl" < 1247083598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because perl is sometimes used for programs which you could be attempting to inject, I think < 1247083607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the wiki I had I did P(bold, unbold)erl < 1247083608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1247083611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: break things. < 1247083617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a feeble attempt at securing you. < 1247083623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: learn the tag < 1247083632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't mediawiki. < 1247083637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1247083646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a neat no-op, it does the same thing as space in Perl or @ in Cyclexa < 1247083650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*space in Perl6 < 1247083666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just /**/ < 1247083669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclexa doesn't have an unspace to cancel it out, though, unless you're putting antitext in the original program < 1247083674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Perl < 1247083680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: /**/ is equivalent to space by definition, at least in C < 1247083683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it filtered html out < 1247083692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but is /**/ < 1247083694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mediawiki < 1247083697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bounces around in celebration < 1247083702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... But not ? < 1247083716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (bold, unbold) is ? < 1247083717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news to me. < 1247083720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm guessing it was BBcode, which is not XML-like apart from having matching tags < 1247083725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1247083725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes in XML, no in HTML < 1247083728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like '''' or something < 1247083739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check < 1247083741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reword that <-- no, let's not do that :D < 1247083743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant, I never said < 1247083757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was bbcode, it turns out < 1247083761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so P[b][/b]erl < 1247083775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it links with [[foo]] for both external and internal, so not quite bbcode < 1247083783 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty dumb. < 1247083827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[foo]] was just stolen from mediawiki because it's convenient, the rest was bbcode. < 1247083829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't make the software. < 1247083841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why did wikipedia's nocover graphic change? < 1247083846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licensing issues with a picture of a bloody cd case? < 1247083853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say no... < 1247083886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know the truth, although I'm guessing it's more likely an aesthetics edit war than licensing issues < 1247083900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the image history, it shouldn't be too hard to find < 1247083919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a separate file; it'll be in the template < 1247083926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but can you seriously argue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nocover.svg looks nicer than the older one? < 1247083943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nocover.png < 1247083944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old one < 1247083958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, maybe it's an image format row < 1247083964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1247083995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is so hopeless < 1247084002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ei saa peittää < 1247084046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen what happened < 1247084057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what? wp? < 1247084059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is related to licensing issues, but not the ones you're thinking of < 1247084068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wwwwwhaaaaaaaat < 1247084078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopeless. Hopeless! < 1247084081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, there were some rows that the "please upload a cover" image was turning up in cases where it was known that there were no free/fairable covers < 1247084093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS < 1247084095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was decided to leave the album cover section out altogether by default < 1247084097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus chris < 1247084097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1247084107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, it's been added back in on many pages < 1247084117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people are just specifying nocover.svg by hand, guessing the extension < 1247084124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably lots of others that use nocover.png < 1247084135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, are you serious? < 1247084137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a case of the template not specifying an image, so people have to guess < 1247084143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a load of bollocks < 1247084169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when you could use fair use images on the main page < 1247084172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good era that was < 1247084180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_Album&diff=196909019&oldid=192528717 < 1247084200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has it occurred to them to add a parameter |shownocover=no for those RARE cases? < 1247084206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. don't answer. obviously not. < 1247084219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complete failure of rational thinking detected. < 1247084265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...answer. I'm curious. < 1247084319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you'd get people shouting that it was nonstandardised if you did that < 1247084329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N.B. I am well aware of the contradictions involved here) < 1247084351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think the court might make an exception for me if I give every one of these people a lobotomy? < 1247084355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetically, of course. < 1247084411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No jury would convict. < 1247084417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray! < 1247084438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees someone using #NUMBEROFEDITS-mod-N as a random number generator on wikipedia < 1247084447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fast-paced enough that it could actually work... < 1247084501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NUMBEROFEDITS < 1247084517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1247084519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be part of #expr < 1247084660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "It is the very first time Microsofts monopoly over desktop computer OS market is seriously being challenged" < 1247084665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[on chrome os] < 1247084668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[talk:mainpage] < 1247084687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pay no attention to the >10% market share in the corner. < 1247085060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, the next firefox release (or whatever) will parse all html pages with the html 5 parser [you're highlighted because i last highlighted you and i remember you testing ubuntu releases] < 1247085066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[tangential i know] < 1247085086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's backwards-compatible enough that it ought to work < 1247085096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll use Firefox 3.5 when it gets into ubuntu-proposed < 1247085102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not firefox 3.5, I think < 1247085107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not in the mood for fiddling with repos right now < 1247085107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wunafferthat < 1247085111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1247085114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not, who knows? < 1247085120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about:config in the nightlies, anyway < 1247085129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use that one when it gets to ubuntu-proposed too, if I'm still using that then < 1247085149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ejohn.org/blog/html-5-parsing/ < 1247085168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nightly + set html5.enable to true, accurate as of yesterday < 1247085197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't use nightlies of anything but TAEB and C-INTERCAL < 1247085217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cfunge sometimes, but I hardly ever update that < 1247085218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1247085226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say that, AnMaster will get angry < 1247085233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because I don't see the need, nightlies just change /too/ quickly for me < 1247085240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and half the time I don't have an internet connection anyway < 1247085250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would that make me angry? < 1247085264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're always telling people to update cfunge or you'll go "la la la" < 1247085287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and a WTF from that article about the new parser: it's automatically translated from Java to C++ < 1247085291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about bugs yeah, it is a bit pointless to fix a bug that is already fixed in last version. < 1247085293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it comes from the validator.nu HTML5 parser < 1247085301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hand-wrote a Java→C++ translator just for it < 1247085308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the end result? 3% faster rendering. from translated java. < 1247085322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3% isn't a lot < 1247085337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although is the Java → C++ translator still around/ < 1247085340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could come in useful < 1247085343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: speed isn't the point; the point is that machine translating java to C++ somehow sped up hand-written C++ code < 1247085347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, but I think it's tailored just for the project < 1247085348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, every project tends to tell users to use last version when reporting a bug. Since often it is already fixed. < 1247085350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're going to keep it in-sync < 1247085371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, HTML5 parsing shouldn't break anything. < 1247085377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I prefer people to report bugs in future versions before I've written them, to save me the testing trouble < 1247085381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. Why would auto-translated C++ be faster than hand written? < 1247085384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it still has System.out.printnl and @Foo, i think they just make classes and #define stuff < 1247085388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the parser is different < 1247085397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that you'd think translating Java to C++ would result in non-optimal code < 1247085406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, most of the HTML5 parsing rules say exactly how you should parse malformed HTML. < 1247085415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in theory you could hand write code equivalent of the converted one. Note "in theory". < 1247085426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no shit < 1247085440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course it might be practically infeasible, but since when have we cared about that in this channel) < 1247085450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dls firefox-3.6a1pre.en-US.mac.dmg < 1247085453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the C++ is human-readable < 1247085463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok that is interesting < 1247085466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying that you'd expect the mismapping semantics to incur a performance penalty in general < 1247085471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing like that generated by lex or yacc then < 1247085475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a surprise it ends up faster than the previous parser < 1247085480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i doubt it works on all java code < 1247085488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/8b5103cb12a6 < 1247085490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the diff < 1247085491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, (theoretically) human readable. But in practise not. < 1247085498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: gigantic) < 1247085517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks like very boring, java-like C++ with some odd stuff that's #define'd away < 1247085532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and using the Java stdlib < 1247085534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the C++ one < 1247085539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1247085544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't hard to do with gcj. < 1247085551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just compile the java to native code directly < 1247085554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gcj yeah < 1247085570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that (a) introduces a dependency on the system having a classpath (java stdlib implementation) < 1247085572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gcj treats Java as a language with C++-like calling conventions, after all...) < 1247085575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1247085578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (b) you can't call it easily from C++, prolly < 1247085583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (c) probably a bit slower, maybe. < 1247085600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Gcj-compiled Java is easy to call from C++. < 1247085603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like GCJ for the way it annoys Java purists < 1247085604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then < 1247085610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (a) is still the important thing < 1247085615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (d) it will probably crash less. Assuming gcj is managed and does bounds checks and so on. < 1247085623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C++ can be managed. < 1247085638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And since java's semantics don't map to C++, there'll be a library layer. < 1247085640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is almost certainly managed. < 1247085645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCJ-compiled Java can just about be called directly from C++. < 1247085648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: remember that any code that's good C is bad style in C++ < 1247085657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah < 1247085661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to include a GCJ library for the Java datatypes) < 1247085690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're not going to introduce a compile-time dependency on gcj and they're not going to introduce a run-time dependency over gcj's runtime library < 1247085695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you use gcj with something like -freestanding < 1247085697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably the sanest way to do it as far as mozille goes < 1247085699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mozilla < 1247085702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the code uses java libs < 1247085707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1247085707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not mozilla-specific < 1247085717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I strongly suspect they already have a compile-time dependency on gcj. < 1247085728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: o rly? the translator doesn't use gcj < 1247085729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does this C++ code use a GC? < 1247085731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pre-translated source is in-tree < 1247085738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mozilla uses refcounting. < 1247085742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPCOM. < 1247085746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is btw horrific) < 1247085766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought mozilla was some mix of various in different parts? < 1247085768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1247085769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like memory management in GCC < 1247085771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it will be refcounted < 1247085787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION replaces Minefield's unbelievably ugly icon with Firefox's < 1247085787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a bad idea < 1247085791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to handle cycles? < 1247085801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S THE GLOBE WITH A CHEESY BOMB LOL < 1247085813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm going to assume a fuckin' html 5 parser won't generate cyclic structures < 1247085822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It has an optional build-time dependency on a Java compiler. < 1247085846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: keyword optional. but why? < 1247085854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, firefox's new logo is ugly < 1247085861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits on the tail jus tlook all wrong < 1247085861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't a clue. < 1247085865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bit at the bottom looks like bad rescaling < 1247085906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/shiretoko/firefoxIcon/firefox-64-noshadow.png < 1247085907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just awful < 1247085985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is refcounting ever a good idea for memory management? I guess there could be some specific cases... < 1247086057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A HTML parser can easily generate cyclic structures, if you want to have something like a DOM tree where you can go from an arbitrary node to its parent, and back. < 1247086099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1247086104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you don't have cyclic structures, it's not merely good, it's great. < 1247086215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1247086337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how incredibly great it is; there's a reasonable amount of work done for the reference-counting. Of course it's a tiny thing, but with some other GC styles you don't have to collect things very often either. But this is all just gut-feeling talk, I'm sure there's actual well-researched material written about this. < 1247086386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I note that the "process" of Slashdot incremental improvement has now reached a point where clicking anywhere in the text-entry box causes the box to LOSE focus. If you don't want us using Safari, there are more efficient ways to get us to move.) < 1247086394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Slashdot's UI gets worse by the day < 1247086398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing something now is always worse than doing something later, performance-wise . < 1247086402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ \././ < 1247086417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc python uses refcounting, that doesn't make sense though, unless it somehow can guarantee that the no cycles happen... < 1247086443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has a gc for cycles. < 1247086469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl uses refcounting too, and it just relies on the user to manually break cycles if they care enough. Though there's also a mark-and-sweep GC step done when the interpreter is being destroyed or something. < 1247086473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. how does that work?? < 1247086475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reference counting is just an optimisation to make the garbage collector's work easier. < 1247086492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by confusing you. < 1247086517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interpreter being destroyed == /usr/bin/perl exiting? If so it seems a bit pointless. < 1247086527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perl is more than perl(1). < 1247086532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's for programs that embed a Perl interpreter for scripting purposes and such. < 1247086533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Perl interpreter library. < 1247086534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thread ending also causes that < 1247086540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to what ehird's talking about < 1247086549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it matters due to DESTROY hooks even with one thread and no embedding < 1247086550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus, firefox right-click menus still don't have curved edges like everything else because FIREFOX ON MAC DEVELOPERS HAVE NO BRAIN < 1247086567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... Wow. < 1247086590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't they just do what Qt does and use native widgets? < 1247086597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also the title/toolbar gradient still goes dark, light, dark < 1247086600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, qt fails on os x too < 1247086609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something about the platform that causes everyone to lose their attention to detail < 1247086613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the obnoxious users. < 1247086622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (as opposed to light, dark as normal os x) < 1247086628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because its OS X support is technically still a WIP. < 1247086635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, the time it took them to fake it with XUL? could have written a native cocoa interface. < 1247086663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox's html5 parser seems to work great < 1247086676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than what they used to do; Qt used to just draw native-looking widgets. < 1247086682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is eeeew. < 1247086686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well that's the last time i used qt < 1247086688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better now < 1247086696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried Qt 4? < 1247086707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'd like to < 1247086736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt 4 renders with native widgets whenever possible. < 1247086740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1247086762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, now I'm using firefox I can... notice that its font-rendering still looks totally nonnative and ugly on a lot of stuff. < 1247086763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. < 1247086764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, < 1247086766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathml! < 1247086771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html5 video! < 1247086776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have to decide if it was worth that. < 1247086788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but... Theora vs. h264 < 1247086805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox on Mac OS X is in rather a weird place in that particular battle < 1247086814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YOU SHOULD USE THEORA BECAUSE IF YOU USE THEORA THERE'S ABOUT A 30% CHANCE PEOPLE WON'T SUE YOU (DOWN FROM 0.01%) < 1247086819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF IT LOOKS BAD DRINK A FEW BEERS! < 1247086825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libre! < 1247086835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*30% LESS CHANCE < 1247086852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You need the latest beta version of Firefox to view this demo!" —dailymotion.com's HTML 5 video test page < 1247086862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they removed it from the latest nightlies huh! < 1247086868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean they're sniffing versions? < 1247086869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's dailymotion is checking for a specific useragent string < 1247086869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing! < 1247086872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1247086874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sarcastic < 1247086877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using fallback like you're supposed to < 1247086896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries a MathML test page; surely this will work? < 1247086900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and acid3 tested fallback for IIRC, so fallback for