00:00:01 what about one googol then 00:00:01 > 2**256 00:00:02 1.157920892373162e77 00:00:09 10^100 vs 2^256 00:00:34 I'd guess 2^256 is larger. Possibly 00:00:45 1.157920892373162e77 < 1e100, pretty clearly 00:00:51 yeah 00:00:53 right 00:01:06 so I was wrong then 00:01:17 oerjan, how many bits do you need for 1e100 00:01:19 but not that far, 2^512 is larger 00:01:27 > logBase 2 1e100 00:01:28 332.19280948873626 00:01:30 333 00:01:35 half a beast 00:01:51 http://www.nijoruj.org/~as/2009/04/20/A-little-fun.html // wow, you can translate Haskell → SML 00:01:57 why does log work for that I wonder. I remember even using that when coding 00:01:58 idiomatically 00:02:05 AnMaster: it's the definition of log... 00:02:18 normal log is just "how many digits do we need in base e" 00:02:19 AnMaster: a^(logBase a b) = b when a,b > 0 00:02:19 ehird, pine or teak? 00:02:29 oerjan, hm 00:02:30 up to rounding 00:03:51 how do you *manually* calculate log? 00:04:18 AnMaster: although to be fair, defining a^b for non-integer b might just as well be done by going via logarithms 00:04:41 * ehird o O ( what is up with Swedish mathematics education? ) 00:04:44 oerjan, that sounds familiar. 00:04:44 corection 00:04:46 ehird, it fails 00:04:46 * ehird . o O ( what is up with Swedish mathematics education? ) 00:04:48 *correction 00:05:05 a^b = exp(b*log a) 00:05:06 AnMaster: you know roughly the same mathematics as i did when i was ~9 :S 00:05:14 using natural log and exp 00:05:22 ehird, wasn't there some study some time ago saying we were worst in EU at math education 00:05:23 iirc 00:05:28 ouch 00:05:30 but any other > 0 base works too 00:05:38 AnMaster: And you're still better than the US. 00:05:44 pikhq, really? 00:06:01 'log' comes up alongside pre-calculus. 00:06:10 Doesn't the US start calculus at university level? 00:06:18 ehird: Yes. 00:06:22 I know how to use log. I just don't understand why it works always. 00:06:24 * ehird shakes head 00:06:42 Smarter students take it in high school. 00:06:44 Their senior year. 00:06:52 and that is the issue, if I don't understand "why" I tend to not learn very well. 00:07:00 I am one of a small handful of American students to have done it *before* then. 00:07:07 i actually didn't know any calculus until recently, but getting what "what" took me about 5 minutes 00:07:09 AnMaster: there's a taylor series for natural log, is one way (but it converges only in a small interval iirc) 00:07:17 it's rather trivial if you know what a function is... 00:07:25 ehird: And you're 14. 00:07:29 pikhq: 13. 00:07:41 but i think computers use more clever methods 00:07:58 I do know some calculus. I can do integration and such. 00:08:09 ehird: That puts you in the 99.99999999th percentile in the US. 00:08:29 and you can do it _less_ cleverly too, in a way that's easy to do for integer base logs 00:08:34 Incidentally, I'm useless at mental arithmetic. And I mean useless. 00:08:45 If you ask me to multiply two non-trivial numbers, I'll sit gawping for hours. 00:08:51 And I have no ida why. 00:08:53 *idea 00:09:01 It's always confused me. 00:09:11 US students are increasingly useless at pen-and-paper arithmetic. 00:09:12 oerjan, isn't a taylor series a polynomial approximation or something iirc? 00:09:21 and I didn't read that in school... 00:09:24 The prevailing philosophy is that a calculator suffices. 00:09:29 AnMaster: it's a limit of polynomial approximations 00:09:39 pikhq: I guess Idiocracy wasn't fiction. 00:09:51 oerjan, hm ok 00:09:56 ehird: No, we're not quite that bad yet. 00:10:06 However, it's trivial extrapolation. 00:10:06 It isn't set in the present day. 00:10:07 Incidentally, I'm useless at mental arithmetic. And I mean useless. <-- same here 00:10:13 lessee, you get it by integrating the series for 1/(1+x) = 1 - x + x^2 - x^3 + ... iirc 00:10:14 ehird, I can do it on paper though 00:10:18 I know. 00:10:32 though division on paper is a pain 00:10:45 giving log (1+x) = x - x^2/2 + x^3/3 - x^4/4 + ... 00:10:55 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:11:02 this ambient mix is wonderful. 00:11:13 works for -1 < x < 1, i think 00:11:25 oerjan, mhm 00:11:28 oerjan: that's not the most useful range :-D 00:11:32 but converges slower near the edges 00:11:57 ehird: you can always rescale... 00:12:02 yeah yeah 00:12:23 ehird: also, that gives you logs from (0, 2) 00:12:26 Incidentally, 00:12:38 A VERY SCARY THING BUT NOT FOR THE REASON YOU THINK: 00:12:43 so just do log (1/x) = - log x for the rest 00:12:44 "The average IQ just dropped!" 00:12:58 ehird, in what collection of people? 00:13:10 whoosh 00:13:26 ehird: since average IQ is recalibrated to 100 regularly afaik... 00:13:27 ehird, I mean, in here, or worldwide? 00:13:32 ehird: Context is needed to tell whether or not that is dumbtarded. 00:13:32 oerjan: THAT'S THE JOKE 00:13:33 >_< 00:13:39 The average IQ is defined as 100. 00:13:44 oerjan, oh interesting 00:13:46 pikhq: Well, I've heard it before; but I made this one up for A JOKE. 00:13:47 didn't know that 00:13:49 For the full human population. 00:14:16 this makes comparing absolute IQ over time harder 00:14:39 IQ is entirely based on average=100. 00:14:57 average=100, and the other scores are a bell curve. 00:15:02 s/are/are on/ 00:15:13 like "am I smarter than Einstein was" (assuming his IQ is known), that is hard if it has since been recalibrated. 00:15:28 IQ is a relative score, AnMaster. 00:15:49 ehird, yes. but what is the absolute measure if you need that? 00:16:01 erm… let me get this straight 00:16:03 does one exist? 00:16:08 you want an absolute measure of IQ for times 0→infinity 00:16:12 right now? 00:16:26 oops 00:16:27 and you would like to ignore that this isn't even a meaningful score? 00:16:35 ehird, ... I just wonder how you compare intelligence over time 00:16:47 say, present day and 100 years in the future 00:16:55 rescaling? 00:16:58 comparing two geniuses. 00:17:06 genius is relative 00:17:07 ehird, right, but where can one find the needed info for that 00:17:10 also, IQ != genius 00:17:19 IQ is just pattern matching ability. 00:17:37 AnMaster: depends on how it's most recently been recalibrated. 00:17:39 ehird, two people having high IQ in two different periods of time. 00:17:55 seeing which of them had highest IQ 00:18:15 Note that IQ has only a loose association with intelligence. 00:18:23 Incredibly loose. 00:18:26 pikhq, I'm aware of that 00:18:29 It would be nice if people stopped using it. 00:18:31 Loose like your MOM 00:18:36 ohhhhhh snap 00:18:46 GregorR, fix superscripts in `wolfram please? 00:18:48 :) 00:18:49 (we can say that someone with an IQ of 150 is likely more intelligent than someone with an IQ of 60. ... Yeah, that's about as much information as you get.) 00:18:56 AnMaster: Can't. 00:18:59 AnMaster: It's pdftotext 00:19:04 GregorR, meh. 00:20:49 hm... who was it that wrote "The IQ of the mob is equal to the IQ of the member of the mob with the lowest IQ divided by the number of members in the mob"? 00:20:57 * AnMaster tries to remember 00:21:02 Heh 00:21:31 oh yes, Terry Pratchett. 00:23:58 AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect 00:24:24 so someone obviously has compared IQ tests over time 00:24:52 yes 00:25:29 "The revised versions are standardized on new samples and scored with respect to those samples alone, so the only way to compare the difficulty of two versions of a test is to conduct a separate study in which the same subjects take both versions.[2] Doing so confirms IQ gains over time." 00:25:30 hm 00:28:15 "Enforced consistent convention: Two pieces of code that are syntax-identical must be character-identical also, and this must be enforced, not simply convention." 00:28:29 o.O 00:28:38 Is that even possible? Does that even make sense? 00:28:44 Hm, I'm sure it's possible 00:28:54 But seems to me that it would lead to insanity 00:29:02 Sgeo: Brainfuck minus comments? 00:29:07 Sgeo, whereis that quote from? 00:29:08 ,[.,] is the only way to represent that AST. 00:29:11 Also, what AnMaster said. 00:29:12 where is* 00:29:14 http://www.warrenfalk.com/blog/programming-language-reinvention/ 00:29:30 Also, what AnMaster said. <-- first time you said that iirc 00:29:47 Sgeo: wow, this language sucks 00:30:14 No ability to customize compiler operation 00:30:14 There is no way to customize the compilation process with your own code. I would like it if a compiler (and probably IDE also) would recognize certain attributes as being custom implementations of compiler functions or precompilers. In fact things like field-wrapping could actually be accomplished this way. 00:30:17 what 00:30:44 that link seems to be major wtf 00:30:44 Sgeo: i assume it means only spacing and indentation stuff, not actual variable/function naming... 00:31:00 AnMaster: this is why you don't let "practical" programmers design things. 00:31:12 What I quoted is the only wtf I see 00:31:16 ehird, hah. 00:31:21 But then again, I'm no language designer 00:31:21 Sgeo: your mind has melted away. 00:31:27 it's all suck, suck and more suck 00:31:54 maybe they call 'em code monkeys because they monkey up code 00:32:08 "readers are plentiful, thinkers are rare" ← and you're not one of them 00:33:26 "Besides just being a syntactic shortcut, a with construct is also an optimization as it doesn’t require loading the same reference on the stack for every member call." 00:33:27 err 00:33:28 what 00:33:37 AnMaster: he's thinking extremely low-level 00:33:39 foo.x(y); 00:33:43 foo.z(foo); 00:33:44 err 00:33:46 let's rephrase 00:33:48 foo.bar(x); 00:33:53 foo.baz(y); 00:34:01 ehird, he is talking about C#. You can't do that sort of stuff that would mess up that optimisation in C# 00:34:01 AnMaster: here, he thinks we have to load the 'foo' reference on the stack twice 00:34:02 as oppose dto 00:34:04 as far as I remember 00:34:04 with (foo) { 00:34:05 bar(x); 00:34:07 baz(y); 00:34:08 } 00:34:12 AnMaster: these people hate sufficiently smart compilers 00:34:18 optimization is brittle, they sez. 00:34:32 "we must tell the compiler what we mean" is stupid, they sez. we must instead tell it exactly how to do it, they sex. 00:34:33 ... 00:34:35 se. 00:34:37 sez. 00:34:44 ehird, this would be true for C *if and only if* the variable was volatile. Even a C compiler would otherwise optimise it. 00:34:57 So, answering this guy's questions about nomic is not a good idea? 00:35:02 AnMaster: BUT WE CAN'T RELY ON THAAAAAAAAAT 00:35:08 Sgeo: Waste your time if you want 00:35:13 ehird, right. You can use -O0 if you want 00:35:17 *shrug* 00:37:14 "I propose that the anonymous delegate ability be kept, and that you also be able to simply pass a function name as a parameter where a delegate is required and the compiler will take care of emitting the “new” construct." <-- that is actually semi-sane. He is suggesting functional programming there. 00:37:22 partly at least 00:38:02 not really 00:38:05 it's a totally insane form 00:38:10 ehird, agreed. 00:39:17 "Cannot return a reference to a field declaration [...] The reason the above can’t be done is because you cannot return the structure as a reference. I see no reason to be unable to do this however, except that returning references to variables would break if you tried to pass back a reference to a local variable, or some other variable in unmanaged storage. But this could be done if the compiler 00:39:17 simply forbade the illegal usage." <-- err. To begin with: structs in .NET/mono are immutable and copy-on-write as far as I remember. 00:39:33 which is why you can't much around with references to them 00:41:06 If I comment on a blog entry, will this guy be emailed? 00:41:19 ehird, ok one good point: "Unable to specify different implementations in generics based on whether the type is a reference type vs. a value type." <-- it seems to me, that this shouldn't matter for a programmer. 00:41:49 the language should provide the same inference, I as a user of the language shouldn't need to care 00:41:58 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:43:39 "My proposition is to cordon off a set of characters that can be used in operators (e.g. & | + – * . ~ $ % ^ / ? = > < !) and set up the lexer to recognize any group of these characters as an operator." <-- I hate operator overloading already 00:44:17 allowing users to invent new ones won't help 00:44:37 Operator overloading is only bad if you abuse it stupdily and make things overloadable operators that aren't. 00:44:43 Also, Haskell has "invented" operators. 00:44:53 Moreover, your commentary is not particularly interesting. 00:45:02 ehird, there will always be someone who abuse it 00:45:14 AnMaster: Your thinking leads to Java. 00:45:30 lol ehird 00:45:33 Please remove the toxic waste from your brain or cease such poisonous thinking activities at your nearest convenience. 00:45:34 ehird, there will always be someone to abuse the programmer as well 00:45:36 that is java 00:45:52 so I agree with you here ehird. Partly 00:45:53 If you require assistance with the latter, please see your local government-sponsored euthanasia booth. 00:45:59 AnMaster: Haskell does it RIGHT. 00:46:04 How many applets are written in Jython? 00:46:06 ehird, hm ok 00:46:07 You can't make "foo" + "globbin" mean 42. 00:46:09 :t (+) 00:46:11 forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> a 00:46:20 You can define a new (+) for a new type that takes two of that type and gives a new one. 00:46:21 But. 00:46:27 You also have to make a full Num instance. 00:46:32 That means implementing every base numeric method. 00:46:36 "Note: This may seem strange at first for delegates which have such a concise definition, but there’s no great loss in making every delegate its own tiny file. Any clumsiness this may seem to cause should be overcome in the IDE." <-- blink. Blink. 00:46:38 And you're expected to follow the laws. 00:46:45 So (+) is addition, not just a meaningless operator. 00:46:48 But it's also overloadable. 00:46:58 Sgeo: haven't seen any in the wild 00:47:07 AnMaster: Yeah, that's the mindset of C#/Javaheads 00:47:40 ....now that, I see the stupidity in quite clearly 00:47:51 actually it is good for one thing 00:47:57 Forcing an IDE on the programmer to maintain the programmer's sanity? WTF? 00:47:58 it allows compiler to find stuff easily 00:48:03 without any sort of #include 00:48:05 or such 00:48:09 Sgeo: that's exactly what java coders do 00:48:14 I'm not saying this is GOOD 00:48:28 just saying that is a possible way to explain it away 00:48:41 -!- coppro has joined. 00:48:51 "With curly braces and semicolons, it is possible to construct a C# program on one single line. This would appear to be the most worthless feature of the language. Its pros are nil and its cons are: 1) it allows every programmer to invent his own convention for formatting which, as it turns out, is more unique than a fingerprint, and 2) it simply requires extra typing (and with curly braces, require 00:48:51 s the combination of fairly obscure keys and a shift modifier)." 00:48:52 so 00:48:57 Although I guess DM.. 00:48:58 he is about to invent python too 00:49:17 He mentions Python in the page 00:49:25 ah 00:49:30 missed that 00:49:39 link? 00:49:41 * Sgeo wonders how much of a WTF this channel would find DM to be 00:49:50 but seriously, formatting needs to be liquid. There is no good "one size fits all" formatting style 00:49:59 http://www.warrenfalk.com/blog/programming-language-reinvention/ (not DM) 00:50:04 DM? 00:50:17 DM = Dream Maker, the language used by BYOND games 00:50:22 hm 00:51:09 Sgeo: wait, WTF? 00:51:11 Lummox JR? 00:51:14 http://www.byond.com/docs/guide/ and http://www.byond.com/docs/ref/ 00:51:34 * coppro thought DM was DangerMouse 00:51:38 I thought he disappeared. 00:51:52 ehird, JRChat being dead doesn't mean he disappeared 00:51:57 I heard he disappeared. 00:52:02 Hm? 00:52:03 Off the interwebs. 00:52:05 Where from? 00:52:16 who? jrchat? 00:52:32 JRChat == Creatures fan chat 00:52:36 It's now dead 00:52:44 * coppro thought DM was DangerMouse <-- that is DMM iirc? 00:52:54 http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/JRChat 00:53:07 Lummox JR was some Creatures community douchebag :-P 00:53:22 AnMaster: given that dangermouse.net is "DM's Home Page", I'd say no 00:53:22 Who thought that desktop linux users were just doing it to be different because obviously windows is so much better. 00:53:26 Least that's what Dylan tells me. 00:53:32 coppro, ok 00:54:08 DM = DMM = David Morgan-Mar though 00:54:22 I have seen him use DMM too 00:54:26 pretty sure 00:54:47 Can we get to the WTFs about BYOND, and not the WTFs about LJR? 00:55:42 Who cares 00:56:06 Sgeo, a bit like python when it comes to indention? Seems rather well structured? 00:56:20 not much to wtf about 00:57:01 yeah it looks fine 00:57:26 * Sgeo doesn't know why he assumed it would be WTFy 00:57:35 I used it, but a very long time ago 00:57:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:57:43 it supports braces too it seems 00:57:51 http://www.byond.com/docs/guide/chap02.html 00:58:09 C and C++ style comments 00:58:12 the only real wtf there is that he proposes getting rid of the ternary operator "only if a way to avoid the code duplication of not using it can be developed" 00:58:33 coppro, there are lots of other ones 00:58:38 but that's the big one 00:58:43 "Note: This may seem strange at first for delegates which have such a concise definition, but there’s no great loss in making every delegate its own tiny file. Any clumsiness this may seem to cause should be overcome in the IDE." <-- blink. Blink. 00:58:44 just use inline if 00:58:49 coppro, I think that is the big one 00:58:50 if a then b else c 00:58:58 okay, that one too 00:59:01 didn't see that 00:59:02 coppro: 00:59:03 Enforced consistent convention: Two pieces of code that are syntax-identical must be character-identical also, and this must be enforced, not simply convention. 00:59:06 you have to think about that 00:59:09 one AST ←→ one string 00:59:14 that's a huge WTF 00:59:18 this guy clearly knows nothing about languages 00:59:35 oh, exactly the same? 00:59:38 yuk 00:59:43 I misread that 01:00:45 actually, found another one 01:00:46 coppro, in a .NET/C# context references to struct members is also very wtf 01:00:58 I don't know about that enough to comment 01:01:00 but 01:01:04 coppro, this is harder to spot, but I used to code in .NET/mono a long time agop 01:01:06 ago* 01:01:07 "# Note: For case-mangling operating systems, such as Windows 95/98/Me, this simply won’t work, but I’m favoring sacrificing compilability on these platforms." 01:01:12 He's targeting .NET 01:01:35 comex, the issue is structs are copy-on-write, so references to them would change existing ones. Which would be madness 01:01:38 GregorR: hey, the stamp-licking was only to get your attention so that you would notice my suggestion. 01:01:51 * ehird licks Warrigal's stamps, 01:01:55 s/\,$// 01:02:00 I don't know what that implies 01:02:04 but I imply it. 01:02:23 ehird, why are you escaping the , 01:02:31 good point 01:02:52 * coppro wants a language with first-class types 01:02:57 Warrigal, use /msg instead 01:03:05 coppro, been done iirc 01:03:10 don't remember the name of it 01:03:12 of course it's been done 01:03:17 coppro: dependent types, yeah 01:03:19 I want it! 01:03:21 AnMaster: it's way more than one language 01:03:23 coppro: grab Agda 01:03:27 right 01:03:29 * coppro looks 01:03:32 coppro: it's haskell + dependent types + other stuff + a bit of suck 01:03:36 also you have to use emacs 01:03:40 and syntax highlighting happens in batch 01:03:42 but it's kinda fun 01:03:44 * coppro stops looking 01:03:49 ehird, "have to use"? 01:03:49 hey 01:03:52 it's a good language 01:04:00 AnMaster: "not using is highly painful and involves huge command lines" 01:04:04 hm ok 01:04:05 its development style is highly integrated 01:04:10 and involves a lot of not-quite-code 01:04:31 " and syntax highlighting happens in batch <-- I have seen that before. A bit irritating but nothing you can't live with 01:04:49 AnMaster: i mean, you have to press a key to highlight syntax, and the code has to be valid 01:04:59 (you can use holes, though, to represent uncompleted code) 01:05:08 (and I'm not sure holes are part of the language vs the emacs mode) 01:05:16 (it's essentially an emacs mode, really) 01:05:25 ehird, oh like the old apple script editor 01:05:29 before OS X or so 01:05:45 probably no longer in OS X 01:05:57 nope still like that 01:06:11 ehird, ah... why didn't they replace it with xcode or something 01:06:26 But /msg scares me. 01:06:34 Warrigal, why 01:06:41 you are doing an implicit one right now 01:06:41 AnMaster: it's for simple stuff 01:06:43 xcode is a full IDE 01:06:44 same message 01:07:02 Warrigal: i'd demand you logically justify that like you do me but i'm not enough of a dick. 01:07:13 Warrigal, either 1) PRIVMSG #esoteric :But /msg scares me. 2) PRIVMSG GregorR :But /msg scares me. 01:07:24 that is what your client would send 01:07:43 I suffered a near-fatal glutamic acid overdose when I was a child and still--I mean, it seems excessive; it tends to annoy me when people send me /msgs. 01:07:54 So when you told me to use /msg, you were telling me to send a PRIVMSG, which is what I did? 01:08:02 hah 01:08:09 Warrigal, send a private one directed at Gracenotes 01:08:10 err 01:08:12 GregorR, ^ 01:08:14 was what I meant 01:08:28 Directed private messages scare me, is what I meant. 01:08:37 Warrigal: It annoys me when people use public channels as private messages. 01:08:43 Because nobody. else. cares. 01:08:52 Warrigal, better than being scared by directed acyclic graphs 01:09:18 Warrigal, anyway *why* 01:09:36 I fail to see what "glutamic acid" has to do with /msg 01:09:45 Whooooooooooooooooooosh 01:09:50 It was Warrigal's way of dodging your question with a joke. 01:09:53 Note the "--" 01:09:53 MSG is a salt of glutamic acid. 01:10:11 ehird, what would the -- mean? "no more flags, only plain arguments"? 01:10:13 Ironically, Warrigal has been annoyed at me for not answering eir questions post-jokes. 01:10:22 e also appears to be ignoring me. 01:10:22 Warrigal, it is? ok, didn't know 01:10:42 That reminds me: I love Triangle and Robert! 01:10:59 ... 01:11:05 Warrigal, are you ignoring ehird? 01:11:10 just wondering 01:11:23 I don't blame you if you do 01:11:31 AnMaster: yes, I am. 01:11:48 right 01:12:02 * AnMaster makes a note not to relay any messages by mistake 01:13:15 Warrigal, anyway, care to give a serious reason for wanting to avoid private directed /msg? 01:13:26 or should I just not bother 01:14:05 I guess what I see is people talking to each other over channels, not /msg. 01:14:21 And it annoys me when people /msg me with no particular purpose in mind. 01:14:32 hm ok 01:14:43 I agree about that 01:14:49 but I assumed you *did* have a purpose 01:14:55 Indeed, I did. 01:15:18 Consciously, I recognize the difference between "I think you should change HackEgo's behavior to this" and "hi". 01:15:31 hehe 01:15:52 Warrigal, even worse is the "who are you?" one 01:17:40 Basic Instructions is back up 01:17:47 "I could almost certainly answer that question better if I knew your purpose in asking it. If you're just curious, then know me as an amateur mathematician." 01:19:14 Or "an amateur mathematician, linguist, and economist--as, being an amateur, I am not restricted to one field." 01:19:23 Warrigal, heh 01:19:39 Warrigal, I tend to never answer random messages 01:20:10 "I'm an amateur messiah." 01:21:06 heh 01:30:35 night 01:49:21 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 02:04:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:10:15 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:14:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:23:17 -!- oklodok has joined. 02:23:59 -!- calamari has joined. 02:24:36 L1 - The files are on your desk. 02:24:36 L2 - The files are in your filing cabinet. 02:24:38 RAM - The files are in a cabinet 10 floors below you. Take the stairs. 02:24:40 HD - The files are on the other side of the continent. Take the wheelbarrow. 02:25:07 "So it's more like, an SSD is getting the ingredients overnighted, and the hard drive is having to breed the perfect strain of lettuce, tomatos and onions over the course of six years." 02:26:18 Getting random numbers probably shouldn't involve getting files from the other side of the continent when you can make what you need right there 02:26:33 And the Internet for me is like sending a bunch of human babies to some random (life-sustaining) planet and waiting for them to invent the sandwich. 02:26:33 heh 02:26:45 pikhq: you could make that into a porno 02:26:45 ... 02:26:47 what possessed me 02:26:49 to think that? 02:26:52 that doesn't even MAKE SENSE. 02:26:55 why did I type that? 02:26:56 it must be late. 02:27:38 morning 02:27:42 ehird: well, you _could_ make that into a porno. you might not want to, but that's a different issue. 02:27:43 morn oklodok 02:27:47 you're sort of a dok. 02:27:49 you know that? 02:28:17 food -> 02:28:34 i know what i need to know. 02:28:39 oklodok: quick, integrate the integration of sin(x)/glorble(x)^glio(2x) 02:28:43 WHAT DO YOU GET 02:28:46 i watched american pie - the wedding tonight 02:28:47 and i kinda liked it. 02:29:03 i don't like calculus. 02:29:03 it's unmath 02:29:12 wat 02:29:16 how is calculus unmath 02:29:17 it's very math. 02:29:25 but all expressions involving the glio function integrate into the glio function. 02:29:37 and no, calculus is very unny math. 02:29:42 how 02:29:43 i don't like it 02:30:12 but how is it unny math. 02:30:48 maybe it's because it's about numbers 02:30:53 and definitely because it's about real numbers 02:31:50 but limits man. 02:32:31 well, i do like the beginning of calculus, just not what it becomes. 02:32:41 well mine is very beginning! 02:32:51 SO ANSWER MY QUESTION also supply definitions of glorble(x) and glio(x) 02:33:14 limits, epsilons, AoC = good; integration, derivation = un. 02:33:35 glio is actually a special form. 02:33:59 and by "mine is very beginning" do you mean you're starting to learn calculus? 02:34:08 no 02:34:11 i was just quizzing you 02:34:15 to make sure you're still oklodok. 02:34:23 good, you should learn something worth learning, like, you know, knot theory. 02:35:15 oklodok: not theory? 02:35:28 yes theory! 02:35:37 oklodok: is yes theory theory of boolean yes/// 02:36:43 yes; unfortunately it's isomorphic with the empty theory. 02:37:26 -!- oklodok has changed nick to oklopol. 02:37:31 poll. 02:37:55 oklo poll 02:38:00 is glio(x) a manifold 02:38:03 yes 02:38:03 or 02:38:06 glio(x)/2 02:38:08 VOTE NOW 02:38:17 i don' know much about manifolds. 02:38:25 gliofold 02:38:38 maybe they have something to do with the sevenfold glio 02:38:40 manifold == california-bar you 02:38:43 calibau yau 02:38:45 so basically 02:38:46 we can glio the x 02:38:48 and divide it by x 02:38:54 to get the arctangent of the monomorphism. 02:39:03 that forms an N-space lie algebra when you integrate it. 02:39:20 and the limit of that(x) as x goes to -0.1iPi is the original x 02:40:22 * Sgeo sometimes feels slow when he watches the conversation in here 02:40:27 when a glio knows it's in danger, it flaps its wings. 02:40:53 Sgeo: i'm actually bullshitting. 02:40:59 i always feel slow 02:41:02 but GO LEARN YOURSELF A MATHEMATICS, Sgeo. 02:41:40 It feels like I knew much more than my peers in 7th grade, but stopped learning since then 02:41:50 GO STUDY A CALCULUS IN THE FLOOR////// 02:42:04 I knew calculus to some extent in 7th grade 02:42:14 The new stuff we learned in Calculus BC didn't really stick that well 02:42:17 Sgeo: people become dumber with age 02:42:18 (new stuff to me) 02:42:27 lament: not before early 20s 02:42:30 and Sgeo is early 20s. 02:42:34 Sgeo: the calculus you learned is not something to brag about 02:42:36 and it's possible that you simply developed mentally faster than others, so stopped developing before others have 02:42:41 it was unmath 02:43:05 people don't become dumber with age 02:43:05 lament: that's bullshit 02:43:15 *that's* bullshit. 02:43:20 oklopol: well, no it's not 02:43:22 why would it be? 02:43:22 ehird: prove it 02:43:33 happens physically, why not mentally? 02:43:33 but lament's claiming that before you turn twenty, you magically stop learning things and then become a dumbfuck in 3 years 02:43:41 ehird: what? no i don't 02:43:48 lament: i have an invisible pink unicorn right next to me. 02:43:50 i never said any of those things 02:43:50 disprove it. 02:43:57 lament: i was generalizing 02:44:01 sgeo is what, 20? 02:44:02 you weren't generalizing 02:44:05 ehird: can't be both invisible and pink 02:44:08 you were just talking out of your ass 02:44:10 disproven 02:44:15 coppro: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 02:44:58 It can be pink when visible, but temporarily invsibile. Incidentally, the contraction in the very name is why I switched to the FSM 02:45:05 *contradiction 02:45:29 you look for reasonability in your parody diety? 02:45:33 somehow I think you have missed the point entirely. 02:45:35 *deity 02:45:47 ehird: you're really really bad at arguing 02:46:00 see, you derailed your own argument 02:46:03 lament: actually i just don't bother with you :) 02:46:19 Sgeo: people become dumber with age <-- there was actually something against that theory on the Flynn effect wp page i linked earlier 02:46:21 so what does it mean you "become dumber with age"? i might have a different definition. 02:47:15 ehird, there is no contradiction in "God". Maybe in the concept of God, but the name "God" itself has no contradiction. Why should a parody deity have a contradiction in its very name? 02:47:30 i do believe most people stop learning after their schooling. also i guess certain forms of wit do get slower. 02:47:31 oklopol: you perform poorer at tasks requiring ability to learn, concentration, ability to find and recognize patterns, etc 02:47:32 Sgeo: the whole point of the parody deities is to make light of the ridiculousness of god 02:47:40 so looking for reasonability in one is silly 02:48:11 But it has a flaw that regular religion doesn't -- a contradiction in the name 02:48:16 lament: basically, it said that some earlier research that showed older people were more stupid was flawed because it was actually because of the Flynn Effect that people _born later_ were smarter :) 02:48:38 oerjan: haha 02:48:58 oerjan: just imagine those imbeciles a thousand years ago or so 02:49:00 there's no denying that our brain decays, though 02:49:20 * Sgeo doesn't want his brain to decay :( 02:49:33 lament: yeah it recommended not extrapolating too far, it said Aristotle would have had an IQ of -1000 nowadays or so 02:49:37 Sgeo: don't worry, the rest of your body will decay at a similar rate 02:49:45 Sgeo: get your entire set of neurons scanned within a few years time 02:49:47 lament: that's not comforting. 02:49:50 lament: in my experience older people are better than young people in learning and concentration; maybe their brains are stupider, but they are more consistent. 02:49:53 (if it extrapolated that far) 02:50:00 Sgeo: then, pick a theory of consciousness that works with reviving it and forget about it. 02:50:05 but, i don't actually know, i just refuse to believe something that depressing. 02:50:25 err 02:50:26 consistent? 02:50:29 * Sgeo doesn't want to believe that death is the final end either.. 02:50:36 i mean they don't get bored as easily, i guess. 02:50:40 But what I wish has no effect on reality 02:50:44 Sgeo: exactly 02:50:45 oklopol: definitely worse at learning, which is why people go to school and such when they're young 02:50:48 young people never stick to anything 02:51:02 oklopol: otherwise, if you wanted to become a scientist or something, you would go to college at 60 and produce your best results at 80 or something 02:51:03 if you're truly terrified about dying, either (a) work out your mental health problems or (b) work on life extension 02:52:34 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:53:16 lament: i don't care about your ugly facts 02:53:36 lament: it may not be common, but _some_ mathematicians started late, i've seen riemann mentioned 02:55:10 i'm sure people just stop learning, and lose the skill. 02:55:13 riemann died at 39 02:55:23 er, what? 02:55:23 fairly sure. 02:55:45 oerjan: says WP 02:56:21 * oerjan is confused 02:56:28 time to go, bye 02:56:50 oh wait maybe it was gauss 02:57:00 "gauss was a child prodigy" 02:57:00 gah no 02:57:03 xD 03:01:48 yeah there was that story about him coming up with a nontrivial way to sum up 1..100 03:02:05 god i lolled at that when i was as old as he was when he came up with it 03:03:19 oklopol: wait how do you make summing 1..100 hard 03:03:40 even if i was like 6 years old i could do that in a very manual way in like 5 minutes 03:03:43 because most 12-yo or whatever retards do it in ascending order. 03:04:02 did you specifically try and target that age at me? :D 03:04:28 no gauss was 10 or 12 or something, that's a story that's supposed to tell about his genius. 03:04:37 hokay 03:04:49 oklopol: so this is the shitty kind of genius amirite 03:04:57 he came up with summing from both ends at once 03:05:09 well he probably was a child prodigy. 03:05:19 i'm just saying that's an annoying story 03:05:24 agreed 03:05:45 also it's the only thing i know about gauss, so i told it. 03:05:56 well i guess i do know stuff about his results 03:06:05 but not about him 03:06:06 well 03:06:20 he died in a duel at the age of 20 i think 03:06:37 but that's it 03:06:40 * oerjan swats oklopol -----### 03:06:50 what was that about 03:07:04 he got 78 years old :D 03:07:08 i grabbed this fly today 03:07:12 and carried it outside 03:07:16 and let it fly away 03:07:24 that was nice of me. 03:07:33 and no i think he did not. 03:07:38 * oerjan _assumes_ oklopol confused him with galois 03:08:20 hmm right, i just remember fields, G and a duel.. 03:08:22 er, 77 years old 03:08:22 *. 03:09:10 yeah wtf @ galois dying 03:09:59 * oerjan regularly uses a glass and a piece of paper to evict insects with 03:10:19 and spiders 03:10:30 in this household we just use paper 03:10:33 and patience. 03:10:41 oh it was 21 03:11:00 no, 20 03:11:11 no 20 03:11:12 :P 03:11:17 oh? good 03:11:25 WHICH IS LIKE 21 IN REAL PEOPLE YEARS? 03:11:26 then my memory is right, and the whatever page is wrong 03:11:32 wikipedia sez 20 03:11:35 maybe you're DELUDEY 03:11:40 oklopol: need to consider date you know 03:11:47 oklopol, I think the story was that he found an easy way to add the numbers 1-100, which was given in class as a busywork assignment 03:12:05 oerjan: i'm familiar with how age works 03:12:14 Sgeo: but that's... trivial... 03:12:17 French mathematician who described the conditions for solving polynomial equations; was killed in a duel at the age of 21 03:12:25 i mean, 03:12:51 the sum of 1..n is just 1/2 n (1+n) 03:13:00 although okay galois probably didn't know that 03:13:10 Trivial for you and I.. well, for you at least. I'm not much of a problem-solver. Now that I know how it works, I understand it, but if I never heard of it, I probably wouldn't think of it 03:13:24 well tbh i figured out that pattern ages ago but forgot it now 03:13:26 and just asked mathematica 03:13:49 Sgeo: anyone who's toyed with math would figure that out in an instant, without knowing the formula. 03:13:52 n (1+n)/2 is shorter though. 03:14:13 it is kinda obvious if you just think for a second 03:14:49 I think that this channel just may have a warped definition of "obvious" 03:14:55 Sgeo: and any 12-yo who's toyed with math would figure out the special case of 1..100 03:15:13 @check \n -> n >= 0 ==> sum [1..n] == (n*(n+1))`div`2 03:15:14 Not in scope: `==>'Precedence parsing error 03:15:15 cannot mix `GHC.Classes.>=... 03:15:18 Sgeo: well we're not dumb? :P 03:15:20 grflmf 03:15:20 Sgeo: i have a very warped definition of everything 03:15:27 it's my thing. 03:15:30 oerjan: 03:15:31 In[1]:= Sum[i, {i, 1, n}] 03:15:32 Out[1]= 1/2 n (1 + n) 03:15:34 DO NOT DOUBT THE MATHEMATICA 03:15:59 @check \n -> (n < 0) || (sum [1..n] == (n*(n+1)) `div` 2) 03:16:00 "OK, passed 500 tests." 03:16:18 IT SPRINGS DIRECTLY FROM THE DIVINE INTELLIGENCE OF WOLFRAM 03:17:16 oklopol: it's so obvious that oerjan had to ask \bot :D 03:17:28 hmmm 03:17:34 n (1 + n) can surely be simplified 03:17:56 hmm not that i can think of 03:18:00 maybe, why not ask mathematica. 03:18:05 I did 03:18:16 it's just ((n*(1+n))/2) is sort of, you know 03:18:17 ugly. 03:18:38 all notation is ugly 03:18:45 n^2+n isn't _that_ much of an improvement 03:18:52 nowadays i'm more about pure ideas. 03:18:54 without expression 03:18:59 oerjan: *n 03:19:01 er wait 03:19:03 nevermind 03:19:23 oerjan: anyway i'm thinking something that only mentions n once 03:19:33 oh... 03:19:44 there's the 03:19:48 umm 03:19:51 oerjan: we can exploit the 1/2 03:19:51 factorial thing 03:20:08 (n+1) 2 03:20:16 wat 03:20:24 well yeah 03:20:57 but that's essentially cheating, n over 2 is just the triangular numbers anyhow 03:21:15 What happened after lambdabot said "Ok, passed 500 tests."? 03:21:17 Oh 03:21:39 oerjan: i guess n (1+n) / 2 wins the summation contest for now 03:22:21 x+y = n+1, x-y = n ==> x=n+1/2, y = 1/2 03:22:51 n(n+1)/2 = (n+1/2)^2/2 - 1/8 03:22:57 xD 03:22:58 really simple 03:23:30 it _does_ only have one n :) 03:24:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"). 03:30:39 maybe i should do something 03:58:39 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:16:46 -!- Pthing has quit ("Leaving"). 04:29:55 -!- coppro has joined. 04:58:08 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:00:07 -!- coppro has joined. 05:37:01 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:13:08 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 07:04:06 -!- jix has joined. 07:50:32 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:51:51 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:13:29 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 08:45:23 -!- Pthing has joined. 09:03:12 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:15:38 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:45:00 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:47:02 -!- Dewi has joined. 09:54:06 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:00:31 -!- Dewio has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)). 10:13:53 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 10:30:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:30:29 -!- M0ny has joined. 10:32:10 hey 11:03:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:32:08 -!- sgeo has joined. 12:04:10 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:06:36 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 12:08:46 -!- ogliopol has joined. 12:08:56 aaaaan what's my nick 12:08:59 k 12:09:04 *aaaaand 12:09:17 i wish there was some way to see your own nick in mirc 12:09:35 -!- ogliopol has changed nick to oklokok. 12:15:34 i heard a finnish woman mispronounce strange on the radio yesterday 12:16:34 oklokok, there is no way to see your own nick? How strange 12:16:57 considering client has to know for stuff like setting umodes 12:17:03 well i don't know one 12:17:28 idea: try (with no parameters): /nick 12:17:35 no idea if that will work 12:17:36 * /nick: insufficient parameters (line 190, minirc.nns) 12:17:38 but seems logical 12:17:42 heh 12:17:48 seems logical, yes, i've tried it 12:18:18 no clue then 12:18:26 in xchat it is right beside the input bar 12:19:28 i think i'm supposed to rely on "14:09… Your nick is now oklokok", which is stupid 12:19:45 because it's just the server's msg 12:20:16 14:09:35 --> ogliopol is now known as oklokok 12:20:24 Just log in twice and the other will always see it 12:21:33 oklokok, what about the channel member list? 12:21:41 or does it not list yourself? 12:22:11 it does list me 12:22:22 also i can join #random09832943 and say hello this is test messages 12:22:36 what a nice interface 12:22:46 Deewiant: i see; still kinda stupid 12:23:11 Kinda? :-P 12:23:26 yes, it's somewhat stupid :) 12:23:53 Consider not using mIRC 12:24:45 -Deewiant- VERSION Deewiantbot version NaN <-- nice 12:24:49 but what is it really? 12:25:06 if i knew a better alternative, i'd use it; and yeah, i know irssi is supposed to be that 12:25:17 oklokok, tried xchat? 12:25:28 yes, it was horrible, don't remember why 12:25:36 there was some horrible flaw 12:25:45 oklokok, maybe it improved since? 12:25:50 could be worth trying 12:26:09 use the silverex version. the other windows version costs money iirc 12:26:20 blah. 12:26:21 http://www.silverex.org/news/ 12:26:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Success). 12:26:30 -!- oklokok has changed nick to oklopol. 12:26:35 well, that was lucky 12:26:41 oklopol, ? 12:26:51 i've been offline since like 5 am 12:27:00 heh 12:27:04 and now that i'm back, i died 12:27:06 slow timeout 12:27:29 oklopol, if you used nickserv you could easily ghost it 12:27:33 :P 12:27:41 i know 12:27:47 but it's too much work. 12:27:47 :D 12:28:06 oklopol, not really. register, set up client to autoidentify to account. 12:28:12 that would be about all 12:28:26 please elaborate on the latter part, that is, give me the code 12:28:36 oklopol, for mirc? NFC. 12:29:02 for erc and xchat you just enter some "on connect line" 12:29:07 or similar 12:29:20 so it sends that line every time directly after connecting 12:29:40 which would be something like: ns identify oklopol mysecretpassword 12:29:40 mirc has that for quakenet; i don't know how to do it for normal networks 12:29:49 oh 12:29:51 right! 12:29:58 well still, i don't know where to put that 12:29:59 oklopol, sending that line to the server that is 12:30:00 btw 12:30:10 iirc you nowdays have to provide an email when registering 12:30:36 you didn't use to need that 12:30:42 i have registered, the O(1) operations usually aren't too much work 12:30:42 try /ns help register 12:30:56 heh 12:31:39 oklopol, not sure if you have to give it / first in front of that "ns identify" 12:31:41 or such 12:31:50 depends on client 12:32:10 in the on-connect line thingy you can't give the / to xchat at least. nor to erc iirc 12:32:55 /ns? Not /msg NickServ? 12:33:16 i think those are equal in mirc 12:46:31 I thought /ns -> /msg nickserv was a server-specific thing 12:47:42 irssi doesn't accept /ns here 12:48:09 * oerjan just gives it as server password in irssi anyhow 12:48:28 Maybe it needs to be sent in a special way, just plain typing it doesn't work anyway 12:49:12 -!- ehird has left (?). 12:49:15 -!- ehird has joined. 12:49:21 wb 12:51:21 you discovered my flight technique 12:53:59 is that your way of saying hay i'm hare 12:54:56 yes 12:57:43 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:00:20 THAT'S INNOCENT 13:00:40 04:22:22 also i can join #random09832943 and say hello this is test messages 13:00:51 or //msg oklodo… wait 13:00:57 okay i actually thought that would work for a second. 13:01:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 13:01:58 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:02:38 /ns? Not /msg NickServ? <-- server side alias as well as often client side 13:03:24 technically using /ns or /nickserv is "more secure" on many ircds, since only a real ulined server can receive those messages. Not sure if this is true for hyperion. 13:03:52 Deewiant, irssi doesn't accept unknown commands 13:03:56 try /raw or /quote 13:04:01 like /quote ns help 13:04:55 ehird, you can do that after you found your nick, in order to confirm it 13:05:05 Yeah, I figured, I just couldn't bother to look up the raw-send command 13:05:11 um thanks for highlighting me AnMaster 13:05:13 i really care. 13:05:25 ehird, does it bother you that I highlighted you? 13:05:28 if so, why 13:05:29 oh wait 13:05:34 you replied to my line directly 13:05:38 i read it as part of the previous lines 13:05:45 ehird, yes I did reply to what you said 13:05:45 because i'm tired and couldn't pick out that that interpretation was stupid 13:05:51 :D 13:06:06 ehird, you need more sleep 13:07:12 guess what time i slept last night! 13:07:23 ehird, later than I went to bed? 13:07:32 and I was pretty late 13:07:32 umm massively 13:07:35 around 3:00 or so 13:07:54 i think i managed to get to sleep around 6 am local time. 13:08:00 i have a very dysfunctional relation with my body. 13:08:00 Deewiant, ATHR is under progress btw. Many parts work 13:08:08 TEST: Will test C with a single thread. 13:08:08 GOOD: Using C on a value from the intital source of the program worked. 13:08:08 GOOD: Value actually exchanged according G. 13:08:08 GOOD: Failed C returned correct previous value. 13:08:08 GOOD: Failed C didn't changed value. 13:08:09 TEST: Will test C with two threads. 13:08:14 we act happy in public though. 13:08:20 (writing code for that atm) 13:10:48 Deewiant, current tests so far: http://pastebin.ca/1494613 13:16:58 * AnMaster notes he need to implement HRTI to be able to provide reasonable timing for the ATHR test cases 13:17:24 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 13:20:48 o 13:22:54 Deewiant, question about HRTI 13:22:56 "M 'Mark' designates the timer as having been read by the IP with this ID at this instance in time. " 13:23:04 why does it specifically mention the IP ID? 13:26:53 Why not? 13:26:57 It clarifies something for TRDS. 13:27:14 -!- Judofyr has joined. 13:29:07 Deewiant, it does? Hm ok. 13:30:29 Deewiant, what happens in CCBI if more ips are created and destroyed than 2^32? 13:30:33 does it wrap around? 13:30:53 and hit previously used ones? 13:31:37 Deewiant, what if one of those still exist, say, the second. will more than one IP with the same id exist then? 13:31:40 AnMaster: Well, in TRDS multiple IPs with the same ID can coexist, so that means the timers are per-ID and not per-IP. 13:31:50 AnMaster: You'll run out of memory before that. 13:32:04 Deewiant, not if you keep killing ips somewhere in the middle 13:32:14 or do you end up reusing them right away? 13:32:24 Oh right 13:32:31 Hmm, can't remember 13:32:48 I believe cfunge will possibly collide two ids 13:32:57 but then I will just say "use the 64 bit version" 13:33:01 I think CCBI just does a blind increment 13:33:06 same as cfunge then 13:34:25 Deewiant, ATHR thread ids must never collide, it is up to the implementation to ensure this and make S reverse if there is no free one left. 13:35:25 luckily I won't run into that problem in efunge, what with it being bignum + blind increment 13:35:52 Deewiant, btw, how do you feel about expressing timeouts in planck times? It would mean a 32 bit funge can't handle it. 13:36:30 ehird wanted that. 13:36:38 yes it could 13:36:42 just push multiple values on the stack 13:36:42 as i said 13:36:44 personally I think I'll go for expressing timeouts in picoseconds. 13:36:53 Or push a pointer to a bignum, or whatever. 13:36:59 so do remind me guys 13:37:03 how is befunge meant to be esoteric? 13:37:07 Deewiant, yeah, x/y/length, could work 13:37:08 i'm not quite seeing it beyond a little core. 13:37:08 Just say it is an opaque object. 13:37:26 Deewiant, except it is supposed to be user specifiable 13:37:29 Code that looks like line noise is esoteric. 13:37:38 a reasonable timeout for waiting for signal 13:37:49 has anyone implemented a kleinefunge or a hexfunge? (different topologies) 13:37:51 AnMaster: Make a converter from Funge-cell to number. 13:38:01 Deewiant, how do you mean? 13:38:06 I guess it'd be best to just rely on a BIGN fingerprint... 13:38:13 Asztal: Not to my knowledge. 13:38:14 Deewiant, personally I would just rather go for "one cell containing" 13:39:01 If you just read a normal Funge cell, then you limit yourself to the interpreter's word size 13:39:08 kleinfunge would just be torusfunge wouldn't it 13:39:11 from the perspective of the program 13:39:19 Deewiant, true. but so does HRTI already 13:39:21 If you also allow reading from a string etc, you might as well make a whole bignum fingerprint 13:39:42 AnMaster: The problem will be somewhat bigger even with picoseconds let alone Planck times. 13:40:07 Deewiant, will it be a problem with picoseconds already? 13:40:30 `wolfram 1 second in picoseconds 13:40:37 1 second in picoseconds \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ convert 1 second to picoseconds \ Result: \ \ 1 1012 ps picoseconds \ Additional conversions: \ \ 1000 ms milliseconds \ Interpretation: \ \ time \ Corresponding quantities: \ \ Distance x traveled by light in a vacuum from x 186 282 miles 299 792 km kilometers \ 13:40:38 AnMaster: http://www.google.com/search?q=(2^31-1)+picoseconds+to+seconds 13:41:18 Deewiant, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=(2^63-1)+picoseconds+to+seconds 13:41:20 64-bit can go up to 3 months, but 32-bit can't even do 3 milliseconds. 13:41:30 Deewiant, right.... 13:41:43 I think that's a bit harsh on 32-bit people. :-P 13:41:53 with nanoseconds you can do 2 seconds 13:42:02 Planck time. 13:42:03 in 32-bit 13:42:34 the time processing the value shouldn't take longer than the timeout! 13:42:51 which it will likely using some pointer to string or similar 13:43:01 split it into two seconds and nanoseconds arguments? 13:43:13 For picoseconds, popping the value from the stack will likely take more than one. 13:43:17 seconds and picoseconds you could do 13:43:31 Deewiant, true. on current hardware 13:43:47 (See http://imgur.com/X1Hi1.gif) 13:43:51 Deewiant, same for nanoseconds I guess. Again on current hardware 13:44:24 Deewiant, what about register files? 13:44:26 If it's in L1 it might take less than one. 13:44:32 Nanosecond, that is. 13:50:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:51:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left (?). 13:53:03 Deewiant, in the future it might be faster. Which was why I considered using picoseconds for the timeout 13:53:51 ((2^31) - 1) * microseconds = 2 147.48365 seconds <-- ok HRTI has problems over a range of a few minutes 13:54:56 you've been deciding this one stupid thing for days 13:55:06 are you really so incompetent that it takes you a day to decide a timescale? 13:55:09 ehird, um, since yesterday evening 13:55:21 way to miss the point entirely 13:55:46 ehird, I want to get it right from the beginning. And planck time is Not Right here :P 13:56:06 * ehird moves AnMaster out of the way of society, to #bikeshedding-asylum 13:56:14 if onlu 13:56:15 anyway seconds, nanoseconds and picoseconds sounds good 13:56:15 only 13:56:19 yes, get it right the first time, that way all the masses of befunge users don't have to put up with a quirky API... in an esolang ;) 13:56:32 Asztal: why do you think i suggested planck time? 13:56:36 Asztal, rather not put up with a CHANGING API 13:56:37 THAT'S NOT PRACTICAL! WAAAAAAH 13:56:50 AnMaster: OMG THEY MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LOGS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS THEM THE API CHANGED 13:56:58 FAILING THAT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE TO ACTUALLY SEND AN EMAIL TO MIKE RILEY 13:57:00 TO UPDATE HIS 3 PROGRAMS! 13:57:06 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:57:09 -!- jix has joined. 13:57:12 ehird, I would go for it, except that 32 bit funges would run into issues 13:57:13 Do you KNOW how much email COSTS? 13:57:18 and those are the most common ones 13:57:25 AnMaster: because you don't know how to put multiple elements on the stack 13:57:28 * ehird clap clap clap 13:57:33 ... 13:57:38 anyway seconds, nanoseconds and picoseconds sounds good 13:57:48 so planck time #1, planck time #2, planck time #3. 13:57:59 ehird, yes, but how many should you need? 13:58:14 you've made that decision with seconds/nanoseconds/picoseconds too. 13:58:15 since obviously a user of a bignum funge shouldn't have to bother with splitting it 13:58:16 so make one here. 13:58:26 AnMaster: they can just do 13:58:28 0 0 foo 13:58:32 push 0, then some numbers 13:59:16 `wolfram ((2^(32*3))-1) planck times 13:59:23 2^ 32 3 \ \ 1 planck times \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ 232 \ Result: \ \ 3 \ \ 1 Planck time \ \ 7.923 1028 Planck times \ Value: \ \ 176.6 E h \ Comparisons: \ \ atomic units of time \ \ 0.04 \ \ 1 23 \ 100 fs \ \ time for rhodopsin to twist 90 degrees fastest chemical reaction studied directly \ Interpretation: 13:59:57 that is number of femtoseconds? 14:00:06 2^96 planck times = 4.271 fs 14:00:16 hmm 14:00:19 wait 14:00:25 wasn't like 100 bits enough for 2 minutes? 14:00:28 ehird, so you need at least a few more to cover up to say, "a few hours" 14:00:35 ehird, 168 iirc? 14:00:44 for one second 14:01:00 2^168 planck times = 336,200 minutes 14:01:04 256 "for way more than the age of the universe" 14:01:08 ehird, hm ok 14:01:18 2^128 = 0.01ms 14:01:31 lessee 14:01:42 how about an exponential representation? a * 2^b planck times 14:01:42 AnMaster: 5 elements 14:01:46 160 bits 14:01:51 can handle 1313 14:01:58 Asztal: that's not precise enough! 14:02:06 ehird: oh, silly me 14:03:48 http://www.leftmind.net/random/linuxbloat.jpg 14:05:01 MigoMipo, what is the scale? 14:05:08 .......... 14:05:11 seriously? 14:05:27 I mean, is it logarithmic or linear? 14:05:51 and is that 100 or 1000 or something else for the top 14:06:04 you're fucking batshit insane 14:06:05 It would most likely say if it was logarithmic 14:06:07 it's a bar chart 14:06:15 ehird, yes? 14:06:17 plus that 14:06:17 of course it's fucking linear 14:06:28 the top is obviously the number of attendants who answered the question 14:06:41 your two questions, surely you're trolling 14:06:44 ehird, I have seen a logarithmic bar chart once iirc 14:06:48 YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER A BAR CHART IN A PRESENTATION IS LOGARITHMIC 14:06:50 >_< 14:07:04 Especially when logarithmic would make no fucking sense at all. 14:07:06 I think a teacher made it, a rather bad teacher. 14:07:26 ehird, correct. I'm asking that. In my experience the world doesn't make sense. 14:07:51 ehird, how many answered the question I wonder 14:08:12 it's a goddamn joke 14:08:23 it doesn't matter one iota and could also be completely fabricated 14:08:37 ehird, it could. Hm 14:08:46 would be rather silly though 14:08:48 someone please save me from this deranged man 14:09:37 I hate cds with blank areas. I prefer when the top is completely covered by a label. Less risk for fingerprints and similar. 14:09:44 at least *visible* ones 14:09:51 Am I more or less deranged than AnMaster 14:10:06 If you answer "Yes" I will hurt you (not really) 14:10:29 you just ask stupid questions. AnMaster builds a whole deranged system of WTF around incomprehensibly stupid questions. 14:10:44 AnMaster: you care if you can see fingerprints on your CDs...? 14:10:53 ehird, yes, looks messy 14:11:27 i'm going to appeal to the swedish govt for funding to lock AnMaster in an asylum. i'm sure they'll understand... 14:11:34 even if the rest of my room is far from tidy I would like at least this to be tidy. 14:11:43 to counterbalance the general untidyness in here 14:16:30 -!- oklopol has quit (Connection timed out). 14:16:30 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:18:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:22:02 hi oklopol 14:22:08 hi 14:22:13 you won't believe the day i had 14:22:19 did it involve moguls 14:23:05 just speak your pain 14:24:01 -!- Zuu has quit (Nick collision from services.). 14:24:04 but not of volition just violins? 14:24:05 -!- Zuu has joined. 14:24:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:24:39 -!- ineiros has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:24:49 vole what i wish 14:25:03 voles are perhaps made of pure energy? 14:25:07 that's a good theory 14:25:15 perhaps are, perhaps have 14:25:20 perhaps do? 14:25:28 well theories are only as good as they get. 14:25:35 i'm a walking theory. 14:25:36 no do. no. 14:25:41 or? 14:25:46 which theory tho 14:25:52 that of: i mind my own business while completing my tasklist for the universe. 14:25:58 it involves entropy a lot 14:26:05 oh that entropy 14:26:13 i play solitaire 14:26:20 we're stringing words together i do not think this is how you make falafel 14:26:26 i play minesweeper 14:26:27 we might fight;;; 14:26:30 do the dath 14:26:32 to the death 14:26:34 do the dath 14:26:34 heh 14:26:35 to the death 14:26:37 do the 14:26:44 sounds magnificent. 14:26:44 ehird, so you like minesweeper too? 14:26:52 AnMaster: only entropy minesweeper. 14:26:59 oklopol: it's inifigant. 14:27:00 ehird, what are the rules for it? 14:27:17 AnMaster: you are, one, and the universe is one, and you are the universe, and the energy is flowing, you can feel it… it's right there… 14:27:31 ehird, haha 14:27:39 touch… 14:27:42 touch the energy… 14:27:49 it…is it too late?…touch the energy… 14:27:59 it's…my god, it's,…it's expanding… 14:28:00 ehird, how many volts? 14:28:09 it's all…all just…just energy…everywhere…can't…imagine…amazing…it's 14:28:15 it's…it's… 14:28:20 GAME OVER 14:28:20 to live the game is not to ask what's outside the rules 14:28:24 You Got 99 Points ! 14:28:29 Insert Coin To Play 14:28:41 oklopol: philosophorous 14:28:44 take 14:28:52 2—action4 14:29:01 it is very philosophorous, i don't agree with it 14:29:26 philosophorous is a material 14:29:26 aumm 14:29:26 it is through its vector that we experience energy 14:29:26 i just kill flies 14:29:26 kill em 14:29:26 just like that 14:29:26 except the ones i save 14:29:26 ehird, what is your opinion on the music of Elgar? And I know you know who he is, what with being a Brit 14:29:26 those i don't kill 14:29:57 i'm listening to bach 14:29:58 AnMaster: actually i have n o idea. i'm … directing my energy vehicle to the google site that i know, oh so very well it's … it's pure…energy…oh,wow… 14:29:58 :o 14:30:01 -!- ineiros has joined. 14:30:05 oklopol: bach is made of pure matter 14:30:09 there are two types of compusture 14:30:10 composer 14:30:12 energy 14:30:13 and matter 14:30:21 did you know bach occasionally used his name in his compositions 14:30:25 energy composers are enegetic, matter composers matter 14:30:33 oklopol: yes, hofstadter told me. 14:30:51 1032103210321032 it's really a trivial chromatic chemilabrication 14:30:52 ehird, are you saying you don't know "Land of Hope and Glory"? 14:31:06 AnMaster: well it rings a bel air… i'll ask the scope… 14:31:13 scope…? 14:31:15 oklopol: triple V X ultra + 14:31:21 AnMaster: googolscope 14:31:24 i am a secret amiga 14:31:24 ah 14:31:34 seventeen gnomes, a few years, 14:31:36 moving, now. 14:31:46 I'll as the UK gov to lock you up ehird! 14:31:53 for your own good 14:31:54 you'll ass them real good 14:32:13 i'm not eating nowadays. it seems to be the thing for the plebians, i'm not them 14:32:23 oklopol: have you slept into it 14:32:45 inferno, fire, brimstone, oklopol 14:32:48 the four elements of the apocalypse 14:32:49 i slept a lot, i dreamt of this world, created by me; it has ai 14:33:03 and i though wow i want that 14:33:11 ai is like a pony 14:33:15 epitome of pony 14:33:21 *thought 14:33:24 i'm listening to my fashion, its' talkoing about me 14:33:37 talko 14:33:44 users aumm 14:33:50 maybe we could listen to the buddha 14:34:12 I want YOU for the SEALAND ARMY 14:34:28 what's sealand 14:34:38 micronation suffering from micronesia 14:34:45 they are small and off the coast, the nations don't recognize their posse 14:34:47 that rhymed sort of 14:34:50 micronesia? 14:34:51 anyway they say they are unique 14:34:55 their statushood they tweak 14:34:59 for they are not so meek 14:35:02 and pianos. 14:35:14 they are tiny and pirate bay wanted to buy them but the giant squid got there first. 14:35:36 actually tpb did want to buy them but their money is flotation 14:35:47 lousy. 14:35:50 you're lousy. 14:35:52 we're all lousy. 14:35:55 let's make a dream of lousy. 14:36:01 you can't make a dream 14:36:12 except in soviet russia 14:36:13 actually tpb did want to buy them but their money is flotation <-- source? 14:36:17 oklopol: tenable theorem/proposition, but what then of sleep?! 14:36:20 AnMaster: scope 14:36:34 ehird, scope == google? 14:36:42 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/12/pirate_bay_buys_island/ 14:36:44 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/17/piratebay_sealand_nationhood/ 14:36:46 ehird: oh, right, i forgot about sleep 14:37:02 sealand is only nation being in eyes of sealand though 14:37:15 oklopol: right so if we use sleepons (sleep particles) without unconsciousness we make dream 14:37:24 and distribute the dream computation across us all to make it more realistic 14:37:35 we could have a physics team, effect team, reality coördination team etc 14:37:37 and it would be lousy 14:37:41 lots of louses 14:37:42 lice 14:37:55 you mean we'd make a connection of minds? 14:38:07 dreaming using sleepons. 14:38:12 http://www.tapirback.com/tapirgal/gifts/friends/insects/louse-stuffed-f1566.jpg ←←← ACTUAL SIZE 14:39:05 blogosphere blogagent blogifying blogblogging neoblogging postblogging blogosphere bloggination blogs 14:39:41 ambiguity but a million people. 14:39:47 international waters fuck that shit 14:40:17 my feet are fast 14:40:25 territory of the mongrels oklopol? 14:40:31 i can't take myself anymore, need to go read or something. 14:40:32 RADICAL 14:40:38 oklopol: take the meta 14:40:45 iron out the meta 14:40:57 vanity can shit you 14:41:02 -!- ineiros has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:41:10 so, should i read algos, dosto or dict 14:41:25 oklopol: the booke of irc 14:41:41 international waters fuck that shit <-- why? 14:41:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out). 14:41:47 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:41:49 AnMaster: man it's like you never flew. 14:42:01 ehird, I have flewn, Twice 14:42:03 err 14:42:05 three times even 14:42:11 -!- ineiros has joined. 14:42:31 let me explain to nitrocycerin 14:42:34 nitroglycerin 14:42:36 but the third time was just inside Sweden, in a small Cessna 172 14:42:37 i've flewn more times than you 14:43:02 okay, here's my thoughtssssss 14:43:16 -!- ineiros has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:43:17 ask yourself this question 14:43:25 has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 14:43:29 and your answer will imbibe. 14:43:49 ehird, what is wrong with international waters anyway 14:44:00 I flew inside Europe the time I flew. 14:44:06 AnMaster: has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 14:44:09 it's the question you need 14:44:12 you have to self-comprehend it 14:44:28 ehird, stop being silly. 14:44:30 bbl 14:44:39 dude you're a fucking ////////////// vagabond 14:44:51 you've got to be directing 14:45:24 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:46:52 OKLOPOL 14:46:55 THIS IS FUCKING IMPORTANT 14:46:59 HAVE YOU EVER KNOWN A PLATAPY 14:48:15 smurf smurf smurf musrf musrfm usrfm usmrf us msurfm surfm usmur msrf musrufm srmfu sm ruf smrfu smrfu srmf us msrfu smrfu smrfu smfurfm us mruf msrfumsfu m srufm surfm usrmfu smeruf msrfu ms surfm smurfm suf 14:48:18 smurf 14:48:27 glio fog 14:48:35 angel fog 14:49:41 ................ 14:49:48 ehird has been drinking again. 14:50:02 GregorR: you have to comprehend the glio-field imbursed by oklopol 14:50:09 it interacts with tectonic ehirdiments 14:50:20 condiments 14:50:24 is like a person named cond 14:50:26 like lisp cond 14:50:28 so mccarthy 14:50:30 so anti communist 14:50:32 so condiments are capitalist 14:50:34 i think 14:51:45 ooooooooooooo the fact that you think 14:51:56 i don't think that's a fact 14:51:56 you're the fact 14:51:56 you are it 14:52:05 would you think that? 14:52:06 i'm the diamond 14:52:14 would i to think, perchance to cognit 14:52:26 i don't understand you 14:52:35 fall on to a cliff anyway 14:52:39 you migt understandh 14:52:47 oklopol: well if i think i might cognit which is congition 14:52:50 congition. 14:52:59 and diamond is crystalline structure of neuron 14:53:26 well you only wish it was your cognition 14:53:35 and you wish it without actually having it 14:53:43 i'm psychic oklopol, can predict the future, but to understand it i need muture 14:53:58 I NEE DTHE um what was muture again 14:54:02 but yes, i see your point 14:54:05 oh hm that probability thingy?????????? heuristic 14:54:06 i dunno 14:54:10 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/muture.txt is unhelpful lol 14:54:14 anyway i'm a diamond of the structure 14:54:18 and the reflection may be optical cognit 14:54:26 i FUCKEN hope so 14:55:04 great depression reverse to the dispersion of the universe corners 14:55:39 muture is a great language 14:55:44 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:56:03 it's FUCKEN great and FUCKEN how is iFUCKENt that it be so the paradigmal? FUCKEN 14:56:11 i don't underFUCKENstand the pFUCKENaradigm 14:56:18 ehird how is that unhelpful, it shows the basic idea of the lang 14:56:21 oh no i have chronic FUCKEN FUCKEN illness 14:56:29 it puts FUCKEN in FUCKEN the most inappropriate FUCKEN places 14:56:37 at least ais523 understood it right away 14:56:38 oklopol: but am crystalline and not the cognit too well advancedly... 14:56:44 well 14:56:45 match a b = if a == b then 0 else -1 14:56:50 suggests a probability structure of understandy 14:57:00 so i think we are probability weight to find answer in ourselves 14:57:07 ok? 14:57:25 oh my god bach is awesome 14:57:31 switch on it 14:57:34 switch on it 14:57:42 just————————goddamnswitch onxit 14:57:43 \ 14:58:04 what to switch 14:58:16 what to knwop 14:58:16 *know 14:58:36 beTwXit 14:58:40 oklopol: now the what 14:58:41 know 14:59:20 i am the oone that ones the ones of the ones which must one all the ones for the one 14:59:29 defragmentation 14:59:34 oklopol: run a bit 14:59:48 i don't run 14:59:50 oklopol: in finderland, oklopol finderland oklopol 15:01:03 does anyone here know how italian is pronounced 15:01:26 oklopol: it alley an 15:01:33 except the a in alley is too subtle 15:02:17 :D 15:02:25 that's not exactly what i meant 15:02:41 oklopol: oh, i actually didn't realise. 15:02:44 haha 15:03:26 i'm fairly booksmart at english pronunciation 15:03:53 my cousin taught me most of french yesterday, but he doesn't know italian 15:05:33 clack 15:05:35 abitchcloo 15:14:14 * ehird finds a screenshot he made from november 2006. cool. :P 15:14:42 when i used crappy fluxbox :d 15:14:46 *:D 15:18:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:21:58 ehird has been drinking again. <-- I trust this explanation more than what ehird suggested instead. 15:22:19 ehird, you used linux back then? 15:22:39 i used linux until 2006-12 and then sporadically in 2007 and maybe once or twice in 2008 15:22:47 (2006-12 is when i bought my imac) 15:22:50 but yes 15:22:54 ehird, so you had a non-mac then? 15:22:57 hm 15:23:05 umm, yes, my old, crappy pc that hates itself 15:23:15 and sounds like an aeroplane 15:23:27 ehird, ah 15:24:14 sec, lemme edit+upload it so we can all revel in the ugly. 15:24:36 ehird, you liked it back then? 15:24:52 i didn't really care all that much, but sure, it worked 15:25:20 it sucked though to be without a sense of aesthetics. whoever said form and function are unrelated? 15:26:11 where's augur when you need one 15:27:34 http://imgur.com/FbLgy.png ← Here we see fluxbox, an rxvt fork that had tabs (not urxvt), firefox and amarok 15:27:45 admittedly, only the rxvt fork's window is a ctually visible, but... 15:27:47 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:28:02 i like how you can't see any window border. that's fucking stupid. 15:28:21 "hurr, i'm the terminal and i'm enveloping your WHOLE SCREEN". 15:29:13 as for distro... well, nov 2006 with firefox icon being juts the globe 15:29:15 i think ubuntu did that 15:29:18 ehird, where is firefox? 15:29:24 I can't even see the icon 15:29:25 didn't firefox go straight from artwork to iceweasel? 15:29:29 AnMaster: taskbar 15:29:35 AnMaster: the blue globe 15:29:41 ehird, ah, icethingy 15:29:41 (it's what you get when you build FF without mozilla branding) 15:29:43 no 15:29:46 just firefox 15:29:49 ah ok 15:29:58 ubuntu just built it without the logo for a bit while mozilla was bugging them 15:30:17 AnMaster: i like how i had two terminals open 15:30:20 real good use of tabbing that 15:30:20 ehird, why didn't ubuntu just use the official build? *shrug* 15:30:28 also, you can see my window manager has tabs 15:30:33 "Terminal Terminal Terminal" 15:30:35 ehird, it might have been that you wanted to hide some other tab? 15:30:35 mushroom mushroom 15:30:38 SECRET STUFF 15:31:09 AnMaster: well, for one, debian build all their stuff 15:31:21 and 15:31:36 that's a good trick 15:31:41 AnMaster: well, either debian have to use mozilla's binaries direct 15:31:48 or they can't use "Firefox" or the logo 15:31:48 if you can't build it it is obviously non-free. 15:31:50 or something 15:31:54 it IS non-free 15:31:58 the artwork and name are non-free 15:32:02 the code is free 15:32:09 but what you get from mozilla.org is 100% NOT 15:32:10 yeah, silly huh 15:32:21 meh, mozilla have always been as bad as sun 15:32:34 MPL is pretty bad anyway 15:32:51 mpl takes 1 gpl to do what mit does in a tiny fraction 15:32:57 with some other pointless restrictions 15:33:01 yeah 15:33:04 Good idea or bad idea: Making a playlist of some music from a game in HTML 5? 15:33:25 uhh 15:33:29 what's that got to do with html5 15:33:38 omg some javascript links that change an