00:05:01 Doo doo doo. 00:05:26 -!- coppro has quit (Connection timed out). 00:05:32 `quote 00:05:33 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 00:06:31 `quote 00:06:32 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 00:06:35 `quote 00:06:35 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 00:06:42 Hmm. 00:06:43 GregorR: it's a bit single-minded, don't you think? 00:06:50 `quote GKennethR 00:06:51 8| GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 9| His body should be given to science. 00:06:55 Ah. 00:06:58 Dobleve te efe? 00:06:59 `quote 00:07:01 1| I've always wanted to kill someone. >.> 00:07:03 ...wtf at that cutoff 00:07:05 It should be random ... 00:07:06 HackEgo: 8| GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them. 9| His body should be given to science. 00:07:11 00:07:16 `quote 2| 00:07:17 No output. 00:07:18 `quote 2 00:07:19 2| I used computational linguistics to kill her. 00:07:33 !swedish butt 00:07:33 boott 00:07:48 `cat bin/quote 00:07:49 #!/bin/bash \ DB="sqlite3 quotes/quote.db" \ \ if [ "$1" ] \ then \ ARG=$1 \ ID=$((ARG+0)) \ if [ "$ID" = "$ARG" ] \ then \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE id='$ID \ else \ ARG=`echo "$ARG" | sed 's/'\''/'\'\''/g'` \ $DB 'SELECT id,quote FROM quotes WHERE quote LIKE 00:07:57 English doesn't have a good way to represent the [y] sound. 00:08:19 Status: Synchronising... 00:08:19 Downloaded 4313 messages 00:08:21 00:08:23 If you disconnect now, you will have access to mail back to 1 June 2009. 00:08:25 Go into Unstable Connection Mode 00:08:31 That's like TWO MONTHS MINUS TEN DAYS. 00:08:55 is that more or less than you were expecting? 00:10:00 ĉat bin/run 00:10:07 * GregorR laughs at Warrigal 00:10:09 * Warrigal will never stop rocking. 00:10:14 `cat bin/run 00:10:15 No output. 00:10:33 "`run" isn't a binary 00:10:37 Neither is `fetch or `help 00:10:47 ĉat bin/fetch bin/help 00:10:53 * Warrigal will never, ever stop rocking. 00:10:55 `cat bin/fetch bin/help 00:10:56 No output. 00:11:08 And bin/"fetch bin/help" is definitely not a file :P 00:11:34 `echo `a `b ĉ ð ə ſ ` `h `i `j χ `l `m ŋ `o φ `q ɚ ʃ þ `u `v `w `x `y `z 00:11:35 `a `b ĉ ð ə ſ ` `h `i `j χ `l `m ŋ `o φ `q ɚ ʃ þ `u `v `w `x `y `z 00:12:33 Should I just assign a, b, h, i, j, l, m, o, q, u, v, w, x, y and z randomly so that I will mess up all the time instead of just half the time? 00:12:56 Maybe I should set `y and `Y to be ψ and Ψ. 00:58:12 Hahahaha, amazon.co.uk stock a Mac Pro with 1GB of memory. 00:58:15 POWERHOUSE 00:58:36 I don't know whether 1GB is a lot nowadays 00:58:50 ais523: 1GB isn't even enough for a laptop. 00:59:26 ais523: For a Mac Pro, you'd be looking at 6GB at the lowest, 8GB to 12GB average and 24GB upper 00:59:52 The one listed has a quad-core Xeon processor with it, so it's rather ridiculous. 01:00:00 It'd be an utter waste. 01:01:07 1GB is not much. 01:01:21 4GB is $50 or less. 01:01:22 pikhq: Yeah. Even in a bloody netbook I'd stick 2GB in. 01:01:53 1GB in a high-end, boutique workstation with a quad-core processor is just unbelievably ridiculous. 01:02:06 ais523: Lemme put it this way: my 5 year old system that I just upgraded from had 1GB of RAM. 01:02:21 And it wasn't a particularly good system 5 years ago. 01:02:48 pikhq: Note that ais523 has gone on record saying something along the lines of "a few years ago I'd expect to pay £500 for a computer (laptop); now i'd expect to pay about £200-£300" 01:02:59 yes 01:03:06 Talking about anything high-end may be lost in translation. 01:03:30 ehird: High-end? 4G isn't high-end, it's what I'd expect in a $300 computer. 01:03:33 this one cost £420, along with things like the case and the external floppy drive 01:03:43 It CAME WITH A CASE? 01:03:44 WOW! 01:03:53 no, that was bought separately 01:03:57 but I only remember the total cost 01:04:40 ais523: Let's put this in perspective for you: 4G of RAM is $50. A quad core processor starts at roughly $100 and works its way up from there. A 1TB HD is about $80. 01:04:51 Oh yeah, said machine also came with a 250GB drive. 01:04:56 Your concept of "high end" by now is everyone's concept of "cheap computer". 01:04:58 ...which is what I have in this consumer-level machine. 01:05:18 ooh, that's clever 01:05:30 a flashing fake banner ad saying "NO JOKE!! YOU WON 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!" 01:05:30 I still don't get why people end up needing all that extra space; are the programs they run really bloated? 01:05:33 ...on an ad blocker site 01:05:40 ais523: Uhh, it's not programs that take up the space. 01:05:52 ais523: Think TV, movies, music, raw data dumps. 01:05:53 My hard drive is mostly empty right now, but. 01:05:57 ehird: well, the data formats they use being bloated counts as program bloat to me 01:06:07 also, TV shouldn't take up disk space, just bandwidth 01:06:12 ... 01:06:14 unless you're in the habit of recording everything you watch 01:06:14 TV episodes. 01:06:17 du -h | tail -n 1 01:06:19 156G video 01:06:24 Erm. du -h video 01:06:30 ais523: Yeah, I looooooooove my watching schedule being dictated by the TV companies. 01:06:35 Why would I ever want to have a personal library. 01:06:45 After all, it's not popular; nobody buys DVDs, after all. 01:07:02 I get really annoyed at people who watch the same TV program over and over again 01:07:11 How dare they 01:07:13 Such insolence? 01:07:22 Most of ~/video/ is a queue of things that I have yet to watch. 01:07:29 Ever heard of hedonism? 01:07:36 If they like watching it again, why not? 01:07:42 (copied via SMB from other people's hard drives at college) 01:07:54 -!- Halph has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:07:57 ais523: anyway, there's a huge cultural gap. You don't even like starting a "bloated" modern browser. 01:08:17 It's highly unlikely it would be possible to quickly explain to you why high-end machines are needed. 01:08:25 Even I, the freak that uses Ratpoison most of the time, use a modern browser. 01:08:36 well, I use Firefox mostly 01:08:37 Granted, it's a modern browser with a freakish interface, but that's beside the point. 01:08:52 although I used Epiphany for a while while Firefox 3 was broken on Linux 01:08:56 I wonder what ais523 would do if told to edit an HD movie. 01:09:11 cut the tape up and stick it back together again with sellotape? 01:09:15 I'm still disappointed that that doesn't work 01:09:20 it used to 01:09:29 Works for anything on DVHS. 01:09:29 ais523: I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but most HD movies are shot with digital cameras. 01:09:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:09:35 Dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 01:10:10 however, most people don't go around editing large videos 01:10:12 (note: most things are not on D-VHS. Shame, too. Bluray quality, on VHS tapes, in the 90s? Fuck yeah.) 01:10:17 also, why HD? most screens can't handle that anyway 01:10:20 ......... 01:10:23 ... 01:10:25 ais523: Any screen above 1280x768 can handle HD. 01:10:33 ais523: Also, ever heard of a thing called CINEMA? 01:10:40 They project high-resolution movies on huuuuuuuge screens. 01:10:45 I've had a monitor that can handle HD video for 15 years now. 01:10:46 yes, I used to go there occasionally 01:10:59 most people wouldn't take their computers to the cinema to persuade them to show videos stored there, though 01:11:00 Anyway, some of us don't like being constrained by our hardware. 01:11:06 Some of us don't like waiting 3 seconds for basic operations to be completed. 01:11:08 Also, HD video editing is getting ridiculously common. 01:11:10 nor would the cinema likely accept the request 01:11:17 Some of su just don't like hating our computers; they should work, and work fast 01:11:19 *us 01:11:25 HD video cameras are not too expensive, and Youtube does HD video nowadays. 01:11:26 Some of us do non-trivial computation tasks. 01:11:34 Maybe because we can; maybe because we want to; maybe for a greater good. 01:11:37 It doesn't matter. 01:11:53 ais523: You're approximately 10 years behind the upgrade curve, I think. ;) 01:11:57 If you told me to do anything on the computer you're using right now, I'd likely be throwing it out of the window within a few hours. 01:12:10 ehird: Using it as a router? 01:12:11 ehird: don't, I like this one 01:12:14 and it's fine for programming on 01:12:21 ais523: Specs? 01:12:25 If a computer's own limitations and foibles affect what I'm doing to the point of actually hampering it or changing my workflow, that computer is as good as program. 01:12:27 ... 01:12:30 s/program/broken/ 01:12:31 HOW DO I DO THAT 01:12:42 DO I PRONOUNCE WORDS BEFORE TYPING THEM OR SOMETHING 01:12:42 ehird: But, man. A Mac Pro with 1G RAM? 01:12:43 about 1G memory, according to top 01:12:43 >_< 01:12:46 pikhq: I know :-D 01:12:51 processor speed, I don't know offhand; it's a Celeron M 01:12:53 I didn't know they made 1G DDR3 RAM. 01:12:59 pikhq: it's not ddr3 01:13:00 ais523: /proc/cpuinfo 01:13:01 last generation 01:13:10 so Core architecture (= Core 2) 01:13:15 (Core brand = NetBurst, I think) 01:13:18 1595 MHz processor speed 01:13:20 ehird: I was only faintly aware they made 1G DDR2 RAM. 01:13:24 ais523: 1.5GHz? 01:13:25 Maaaaaaaan. 01:13:29 That's speeeeeeeeeeeeed. 01:13:32 I just upgraded from that. 01:13:32 1 MB cache 01:13:42 ais523: How many cores? 01:13:51 1, I think 01:14:10 ais523: Oh god, if I ever get into a situation where I ask to use your computer, please hit me over the head with a cluebat. 01:14:12 Seriously, your system is about on par with a netbook, performance-wise. 01:14:17 And sucks a lot more power. 01:14:23 pikhq: A gigantic netbook that takes up floorspace! 01:14:33 ehird: Celeron-M implies a laptop. 01:14:37 ehird: the strange thing is, this is powerful enough for most of the things I want to do 01:14:40 and yes, it is a laptop 01:14:41 pikhq: He bought the case separately. 01:14:43 ... 01:14:47 ais523: you assembled your own laptop? 01:14:52 no, I didn't 01:14:57 ...then...? 01:15:01 it's one of the Dell ones which came with Linux preinstalled 01:15:04 and a Windows XP manual 01:15:09 You said something you bought a case yourself. 01:15:10 and I mean, the case to carry it around in 01:15:18 not the CPU case 01:15:18 Oh. 01:15:23 "CPU case"? 01:15:24 Seriously? 01:15:36 you strike me as someone who's never tried to transport a laptop to work every day... 01:15:49 Uhh. 01:15:50 "CPU case". 01:15:54 It doesn't just contain a CPU. 01:15:56 He's criticising your terminology. 01:16:01 yes, it also contains a motherboard and drives, etc 01:16:05 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:16:07 although not always 01:16:10 I'ma start calling it a RAM case. 01:16:14 It contains RAM, after all. 01:16:14 fair enough 01:16:20 -!- coppro has joined. 01:16:24 although, not always 01:16:27 I prefer calling it an Internet case. 01:16:32 Gremlin case. 01:16:34 I'm pretty sure that in some systems, you plug the RAM in the side 01:16:35 That's how my computer works. 01:16:37 As correct. 01:16:39 Gremlins. Gremlin electrons. 01:16:44 I've never yet seen a system with an external motherboard, though 01:16:44 01:16 ais523: I'm pretty sure that in some systems, you plug the RAM in the side 01:16:46 ais523: ... 01:16:46 Whaaaaaaat 01:16:47 No 01:16:51 I'm fairly sure that's completely false. 01:16:57 No, not fairly sure. Entirely sure. 01:17:01 old laptops used to, they had some internal RAM 01:17:08 ais523, imagine it's the year 2000. 01:17:08 but to get a decent amount you used external RAM too 01:17:12 You're using a C64. 01:17:14 It's not a laptop if you can't fit it on your lap, ais523. 01:17:26 ehird: I can, though 01:17:29 That's the analogy. 01:17:30 just normally don't, a table is a lot more stable 01:17:31 What, an 80s laptop? 01:17:39 Those are the only ones that'll have external ram. 01:17:41 ehird: Oh, right. 80s *laptop*. 01:17:52 anyway, this isn't that old; it came with Ubuntu Feisty 01:17:54 Which are not laptops. :P 01:17:58 which therefore must have existed at the time I bought it 01:18:06 it was bottom-end at the time, though 01:18:10 "80s laptop: It Can Fit Into A Briefcase I Guess, If You Have A Really Big Briefcase And Are Also As Strong As The Hulk" 01:18:20 ehird: Also, has a CRT. 01:18:22 :D 01:18:27 But itcanfitintoabriefcaseiguessifyouhaveareallybigbriefcaseandarealsoasstrongasthehulktop wasn't as catchy. 01:18:39 ais523: 5 releases ago. 01:18:52 You... Seriously bought that system 2 years ago. 01:18:54 no, 4 01:18:56 Karmic isn't out yet 01:19:13 pikhq: I feel no need to buy high-end laptops, modern technology works on lower- and lower- end things as time goes on 01:19:35 in fact, if it weren't for things like video editing and Windows driving specs up, probably hardware would become less powerful over time as the software got better 01:19:44 ais523: It's worth noting that if we went buy the "but Joe Sixpack doesn't need to do any more than word processing and email" argument, we'd be using 1984 Macintoshes. 01:19:55 It was measured; word processing tasks were just about equal with the Macintosh as on a modern system. 01:20:00 Sometimes the Mac beat it. 01:20:00 ehird: it's not about what Joe Sixpack wants to do; it's about what /I/ want to do 01:20:14 ais523: You really should've gotten a netbook. 01:20:14 ais523: yes, but that doesn't mean that high end machines aren't useful for most people 01:20:20 Really, truly, epicly. 01:20:21 you said that; it's not true 01:20:24 you're the exception, really 01:20:26 pikhq: they didn't exist then, it was just before they started to be invented 01:20:38 ais523: eee pc has been out since early 2007 or so 01:20:40 maybe before that. 01:20:44 admittedly it was 7" 01:20:55 ehird: Roughly the same specs, though. 01:21:19 hmm... this was bought in october or november 2007, I think 01:21:49 Now I'm suspecting you also overpayed. 01:22:10 don't worry; I knew I was overpaying, so I didn't mind so mcuh 01:22:12 *much 01:22:20 err 01:22:31 so you're saying that you bought this because you didn't need any more 01:22:32 ... You overpayed for an underspecced system. 01:22:33 yet you also paid more for it 01:22:43 is this failure in rationality apparent to you? 01:22:44 YOU ARE TERRIBLE AT MAKING PURCHASING DECISIONS 01:22:47 xD 01:22:56 Let's buy a commodore 64 for £10,000. 01:22:56 no, it was a case of not having to think as much when buying it 01:22:59 We don't need anything more. 01:23:23 ais523: I think "not thinking when making a purchase" is perfectly consistent with "being really bad at making purchasing decisions". 01:23:28 In fact, I suspect a correlation... 01:23:30 ehird: Talk to me again in a few hundred years and maybe I will. :P 01:23:47 ehird: I hardly ever buy anything but food 01:24:06 ais523: Become a breatharian; you won't have to eat food.* 01:24:09 *You might die though. 01:24:16 I'm the sort of person who effectively tries to encourage a recession 01:24:26 I'm sure the economy just loves you. 01:24:33 (But if you're actively trying for that, err, why?) 01:24:40 (Apart from, y'know, being a discordian.) 01:24:46 What, by spending more money for fewer goods? 01:24:59 That's not encouraging a recession, that's simulating one, buddy. 01:25:08 And just simulating it for yourself. 01:25:12 Simulated recession: just add water 01:25:19 pikhq: by not buying anything unless I actually want it 01:25:24 I'm surprised how many people seem to break that rule 01:25:30 and just shop for no apparent reason 01:25:37 Nobody sane does that. 01:25:40 ais523: Sure. And you then waste money by spending more for less. 01:25:41 maybe you're talking to too many idiots 01:25:53 ehird: He's talking to too many USians. 01:26:01 is there a difference :) 01:26:20 Yes, many Americans spend for the sake of spending. 01:26:25 Explains quite a bit. 01:26:30 also, when it comes to things that are for fun, rather than actually needed (such as meals in restaurants), I don't enjoy them if I think they're too expensive 01:26:32 Idiots do that too 01:26:40 I suppose it's sort of an economic equilibrium thing 01:26:47 ais523: Then why are you enjoying your computer? 01:26:53 pay more for something if I think it's underpriced (I've been known to refuse discounts in shops before) 01:26:54 You spent too much. 01:26:55 ais523: i'd class that under psychological issues... 01:27:00 money does exist to be spent, you know 01:27:02 and not buy at all if I think it's overpriced 01:27:14 ... You pay more if you think it's underpriced. 01:27:16 unless you just like looking at bank accounts sitting at a constant figure 01:27:18 and no, money just exists as a sort of scorecard as how well people are doing at capitalism 01:27:22 You, sir, fail at rational thinking. 01:27:33 pikhq: why can't I pay more? 01:27:39 ais523: so you think you should work your ass off for years, and just buy the bare minimum of food 01:27:50 why is it me who's failing at rational thinking? 01:27:51 Money is a tool. 01:27:54 ais523: if everyone applied your logic, the whole world would be full of deadbeats. 01:28:05 because why earn more money if your life will be exactly the same but with more effort? 01:28:08 Wasting money is using this tool poorly. 01:28:08 back when bartering was around, people paid what they thought things were worth 01:28:23 ehird: well, exactly 01:28:25 ais523: that's totally not how bartering works psychologically at all, imo 01:28:28 I dislike the need to earn money at all 01:28:36 ais523: OK; have fun with your communist society. 01:28:39 No, they paid what they could convince the other party to take. 01:28:47 You fail at economics, too. 01:28:54 I'll assume you hate all meritocracies, then, ais523; after all, capitalism is an emulation of a meritocracy. 01:29:02 ehird: communism doesn't work because there are people who are too selfish around 01:29:06 and no, I disagree 01:29:11 IME, the people who work harder earn less money 01:29:14 ais523: So you don't want anybody to have to earn money, and you don't want communism. 01:29:16 ais523: The same is true of all economic systems. 01:29:21 And forms of government. 01:29:26 I'm wondering what, precisely, you'd prefer. 01:29:34 ehird: oh, I can be aware that no system at all works 01:29:45 ehird: Actually, I'm just wondering what, exactly, he's thinking. 01:29:49 ........................... 01:29:51 WTF PEOPLE 01:29:53 pikhq: "These drugs are great." 01:30:02 ehird: I don't take drugs, I dislike all forms of mind control 01:30:05 I don't do drugs 01:30:05 HA 01:30:07 Gotcha 01:30:13 alcohol is, I suspect, one of them 01:30:18 There are topics you should always try to avoid. They are politics, economics, religion and programming languages. LEARN THE RULES. 01:30:30 ais523: If you hate every form of mind control... 01:30:33 I assume you don't eat food. 01:30:34 Or drink. 01:30:38 pretty much the strongest 'drug'/addictive substance I take is caffeine, and even then only in chocolate, and I'm annoyed about that 01:30:41 GregorR: So, the 4 most important things in life. 01:30:42 GregorR: ;) 01:30:42 Or ever cause your sleep patterns to fall out. 01:30:47 Oh, wait, you mention those regularly. 01:30:52 (The latter, I mean.) 01:30:54 ehird: that doesn't mean I think it's a good thing! 01:30:55 (Well, the former too.) 01:31:04 ais523: You have a choice! Stop eating; drinking. 01:31:05 ais523: Your behavior is highly irrational. 01:31:28 More so than that of people who spend for the sake of spending -- which is amazing. 01:31:46 ehird: I dislike death even more than being mind-controlled 01:32:01 ais523: You also realise that firing neurons is mind control? 01:32:17 no, that's the standard process 01:32:26 …by which to control a mind. 01:32:28 stop firing neurons. they deserve job security too! 01:32:39 What about neutrons? 01:32:40 oerjan: :D 01:32:41 oerjan: neurons shouldn't have a job; they shouldn't have to make money. 01:32:52 *smoooooooooth* 01:33:16 that smoothly slithered straight over my head 01:33:40 all mimsy were the borogaves 01:33:50 (and the nome raths outgrabe) 01:34:04 ehird: are you misquoting Jabberwocky deliberately to annoy me? 01:34:13 ais523: far too many things annoy you. 01:34:16 but no, I just have a bad memory. 01:34:27 i'm not sure how easy it is to fire neutrons, actually, they are electrically neutral after all. well, if you don't need them to go in a particular direction... 01:35:16 oerjan: You merely need a source of radiation. 01:35:33 pikhq: but you cannot steer them 01:35:54 the inside of neurons isn't electrically neutral 01:36:03 they move around ions in order to do their signalling 01:36:16 anyway, we'd better change the subject; I worry that I'm starting to sound like zzo38 01:36:17 oerjan: They may be aimed, though. 01:36:22 ais523: you are? 01:36:27 * oerjan swats ais523 to get his reading comprehension working -----### 01:36:29 I don't think you are 01:36:34 and zzo38 is great, but one is enough for the world 01:36:42 zzo38 hurts my head 01:36:42 No, you're sounding less intelligent. :P 01:36:56 pikhq: how so? 01:36:59 no, you're just disagreeing with me 01:37:07 you could block in some directions, i guess 01:37:14 oerjan: MASSIVELY IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOR 01:37:18 Oh. 01:37:21 That. 01:37:25 ais523: 2 vs 1; democracy wins again 01:37:30 pretty low voter turnout though. 01:37:36 ehird: I don't believe that democracy makes things true 01:37:44 oerjan: Hmm. 01:37:45 in fact, I suspect hardly anyone believes that 01:37:46 ais523: things such as "X is President"? 01:37:48 GASAR. 01:37:54 ehird: not even that, sometimes 01:38:00 tru dat 01:38:07 actually, prediction markets and other hiveminds have shown to be quite accurate 01:38:11 besides, I meant voting doesn't change the current state of reality 01:38:14 i'll bring it up to 2 vs. 2 by noting that my laptop only has 448 MB RAM 01:38:16 (I WANT A GASAR) 01:38:16 I agree that it can be good at predicting 01:38:16 very accurate, even 01:38:41 oerjan: And how old is aforementioned laptop, and did you spend far too much money for it even though you could spend less to get more? 01:38:44 but voting something to be true now doesn't make it true now, although it can sometimes indirectly change the future 01:39:02 3 years, and i didn't pay for it :) 01:39:17 so just slightly older than mine 01:39:40 er 01:39:44 ais523: didn't pay for it = donated. 01:39:45 obviously 01:39:48 it was someone else's old laptop 01:39:51 yes 01:39:56 no, my dad bought it 01:39:57 oerjan: So, you're not saying much about his "I should spend more for things" point of view. ;) 01:39:59 well, I've been using other people's old computers before I got this one 01:40:01 if you seriously think 448 MB of RAM is usual 3 years ago... 01:40:02 oerjan: hm 01:40:11 i didn't know they sold such low-end laptops 01:40:19 even backt hen 01:40:21 ehird: and remember, 1 GB of RAM was about standard for low-end laptops 2 years ago 01:40:33 I know that you don't pay enough attention to the low-end to know it exists, but it does 01:40:33 ais523: only very low end ones 01:40:42 most people put in the extra £30 to have a system that isn't cripplingly useless 01:40:54 ehird: I have a system that isn't cripplingly useless 01:40:55 ehird: 448MB of RAM? Man. I had a 10 year old system with more than that. 01:40:57 i bought this computer with 1GB of RAM in 2006; it's consumer level; and I regretted it 01:41:09 i spent £20 to have it at 2.5GB of RAM dec 08 01:41:13 and it's far, far better 01:41:20 even low-end tasks 01:41:20 I'm shocked that even makes a difference 01:41:25 ais523: it makes a huge difference 01:41:34 hard drives are cripplingly slow 01:41:38 swap is the devil 01:41:42 Modern kernels use RAM for a cache. 01:41:46 I hardly ever go into swap, though 01:42:00 and most of the programs I use will be loaded close to startup 01:42:04 Hardly ever? Implies you don't have much caching going. 01:42:04 or else are programming language interpreters 01:42:08 or else are programs I just wrote 01:42:13 ais523: i don't think you realise how strange your OS usage is 01:42:17 only the second could be sensibly cached 01:42:28 nobody uses the low-resource usage linux. nobody is conservative with their apps, preferring terminal apps. 01:42:36 (I mean "nobody" in a statistical sense) 01:42:42 ehird: I know it isn't a common pattern; but why are you criticising me for picking a laptop that suits the way I use a laptop? 01:42:46 ais523: I'm not. 01:42:50 ehird: Well, I prefer terminal apps, but that's because I have odd tastes in UI. 01:42:55 I'm criticizing you for saying that higher-end things are mostly useless. 01:43:18 an average LOW-END workload would be slow and painful on your machine 01:43:51 I do DVD encodes rather often, for example. 01:43:53 Also, I run Gentoo. 01:44:03 this laptop doesn't even have DVD codecs installed 01:44:15 ais523: you keep proving the point... 01:44:16 ... 01:44:26 after all, what are DVD players for? 01:44:35 ... 01:44:40 01:44 ais523: after all, what are DVD players for? 01:44:42 I'm framing this. 01:44:44 I'm putting it on a shirt. 01:44:52 I'm setting up an online store where people can buy this on a shirt. 01:44:52 we have a quotedb, if you want to put it in there 01:45:02 ais523: I'm fairly sure we don't, actually. 01:45:13 Despite the fact that we used to have a link to it in the topic, it doesn't actually exist. 01:45:17 hackego 01:45:26 That doesn't count; it has Sine too. 01:45:30 it was used earlier today; I don't know if you noticed or not 01:45:33 and why doesn't it count? 01:45:36 It has Sine too. 01:45:39 Anyway, this is far too mind-boggling for just a quote db. 01:45:41 I can't see any way you could claim that hackego's quotedb is not a quotedb 01:45:50 It isn't an #esoteric quotedb 01:45:50 Oh, you need an EXCLUSIVE quotedb :P 01:45:51 It's not OURS. 01:45:57 GregorR: Shut up, it's irrelevant 01:45:58 it's ours in the sense that we use it 01:46:02 night 01:46:02 This needs a whole business. 01:46:05 ais523: "We have a google" 01:46:15 "You can use it if you'd like" 01:46:17 ehird: slightly weird phrasing I think, but not false 01:46:24 I made a shirt of something a friend said once: "This thing cannot not work, if it works." 01:46:37 GregorR: I read that without the not first 01:46:38 It was better. 01:47:15 Unicode needs hangman characters. 01:47:23 Combining left arm 01:47:28 :D 01:49:07 I suppose it will have to do: 01:49:15 `addquote after all, what are DVD players for? 01:49:16 42| after all, what are DVD players for? 01:49:26 ais523: Now, did you actually mean that literally? Speak now or forever hold your pieces. 01:49:51 ehird: it's a question 01:49:57 how can you mean a question literally 01:49:59 nice quote number 01:50:00 42! 01:50:04 night really 01:50:04 ais523: wat 01:50:12 ais523: It's open to interpretation like all language. 01:50:17 Now what the heck did you actually mean 01:50:17 ? 01:50:42 ais523: I use my computer in lieu of a TV. 01:50:44 I mean, if you can already play DVDs, why buy a computer for the purpose? 01:50:49 ehird, that's simple :P 01:50:56 AnMaster: You're meant to be ignoring me. 01:50:57 It's much nicer this way; I don't get ads and it doesn't afraid of anything. 01:51:02 pikhq: IME computers aren't within sufficient range of a sofa to manage that 01:51:10 ehird, took you off on trial a few minutes ago 01:51:12 TV tuner cards don't exist. 01:51:16 BitTorrent doesn't exist. 01:51:24 My computer has an HDMI out port... 01:51:27 Heck, legal download services don't exist. 01:51:27 it's too hard to find legal torrents 01:51:32 As do most recent computers. 01:51:43 and I don't torrent at all, not even legally, because people would assume I was doing something illegal 01:52:03 (or that the person at the other end was doing something illegal; I've seen it argued that leeching is legal for you but illegal for the uploader) 01:52:03 ... 01:52:07 I suppose next you'll tell me you voted BNP or something? 01:52:20 no, I strongly disagree with the BNP's policies 01:52:34 even ignoring the immigration policy that gets them into so much trouble, the other policies are all awful too 01:52:40 It's like freaking Chewbacca on Endor: IT MAKES NO SENSE! IF CHEWBACCA IS ON ENDOR, YOU MUST ACQUIT! 01:52:46 If I'm hearing you right, ais523... you shouldn't do something that is legal if it'll make Other People(TM) think it's illegal? 01:52:49 they seem to want to make the UK into a police state 01:52:51 Erm, I mean, cease to be irrational. 01:52:56 MY MIND IS MELTING AND I WANT TO DIE ;_; 01:53:11 ais523: Anyway, piracy is legal in Sweden. Yarr. 01:53:13 ehird: yes, not when the people who give you your internet service have a clause requiring that all use must be legal 01:53:18 otherwise they might cut you off by mistake 01:53:21 ehird: Also Spain. 01:53:31 Also Portugal. Wait, I said filesharing, not drugs. 01:53:35 Never mind. 01:53:41 Still Spain. 01:53:53 Shush, you 01:53:59 'twas a joke. 02:09:16 I'll shush you! 02:09:24 OH YEAH 02:09:28 @@ @elite @yow @arr 02:09:28 WELL SAY THAT TO MY FACE 02:09:29 LeOnA, i WanT +0 CONF3$z0rz T|-|ing5 +O yOU ... i \/\/4n+ 70 wR4P yoU In 4 5cArL3T rob3 7RI/\/\/\/\3d Wi+h P0|Y\/INyl C|-|l0RIDE ... i Wan7 T0 E/\/\pTY yOur ashtr4yz0rz ... 02:09:43 I want to empty your ash tray. 02:10:02 pikhq: You should have done it like this: 02:10:05 @. elite . yow arr 02:10:06 i'/\/\ N0+ AN IRaNi4n!! I vo+ED 4 di4nNE FEiN$t3in!! 02:10:15 It looks more confusing and is PoInTfReE 02:10:15 Totally. 02:11:29 @. elite yow arr 02:11:29 ... i d0n'+ xn0W whY 8uT, zuDden1Y, I \/\/ant +o DIscu55 dE(1iNIn9 I.Q. leVELz wI+H a Blue ri8b0N $eN4T3 $UB-Co/\/\/\/\i7T3e! 02:13:04 Or that. 02:29:35 * ehird decides to learn Erlang, maybe. 02:30:42 ehird: Some of the nice parallelism constructs of Haskell without the monads? 02:31:53 /shrug 02:31:57 I like learning languages. 02:32:43 *shrug* 02:39:00 *shrubbery* 02:42:23 You will bring us a. 02:43:30 __ _ 02:43:30 / _` | 02:43:30 | (_| | 02:43:30 \__,_| 03:09:13 ### 03:09:14 ######## 03:09:14 ########## ##### 03:09:14 #### #### ###### 03:09:14 ## ## ## 03:09:15 ## ## # 03:09:16 ## ## ## 03:09:18 ################## 03:09:21 ################### 03:09:23 ################## 03:09:24 ## 03:09:27 # 03:09:49 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 03:09:50 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 03:09:50 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 03:09:50 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 03:09:50 -!- Slereah has quit (Excess Flood). 03:10:03 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:10:13 Freenode has strict flood limits 03:10:20 bsmntbombdood_: Hi, Prince. 03:10:33 I mean, letter A. 03:10:35 huh? 03:10:49 Looks vaguely like the Prince symbol. 03:11:14 I think that second a is dead. 03:50:52 Convincing people that this sentence is true is the best thing anyone could do with their time. 03:55:09 that's not true 04:04:42 -!- Halph has joined. 04:12:55 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:30:47 -!- Halph has changed nick to coppro. 04:43:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:43:29 Why did freenode-connect ask my version twice this time? 04:43:56 alzheimer. 04:44:36 I changed a few things in PHIRC to object-oriented to allow other protocols to be added using add-in files 04:45:03 Not enough abstraction. 04:45:09 Moar monads! Moar arrows! 04:45:52 @quote hyper-monad 04:45:52 jcreigh says: I've found learning Haskell makes me feel vastly inferior to Haskell coders. ("Oh,", they say, "That's just a fold over the hyper-monad fluxbox list. Here's the one-line replacement 04:45:53 for your entire program.") 04:46:17 Each protocol class has the following members: $protocol_name start($args) stop($mode) send($cmd) receive($data) idle() process_entry($entry) spacebar() autoanswer($current) 04:46:27 oerjan: :D 04:48:35 process_entry is used to update the current channel based on what the user types (and can do other things too), spacebar is used if the user pushes space when the command-line is currently blank, autoanswer is used when that configuration option is set, IRC uses it to answer CTRL+A VERSION and stuff like that. 04:48:52 Maybe I can figure out XMPP and make a add-in file for XMPP or for other protocols 04:49:06 Moar forkIO! 04:49:53 oerjan: Y'know, I can no longer look at (most) other languages and see anything interesting in them. I just think "Oh, that? Been meaning to look at that monad." 04:50:07 Basically any one just has to convert IRC-like commands to format to send to the server, and convert things received from the server into IRC-like commands. 04:50:31 Unfortunately I do not understand XMPP. 04:50:39 Or in the case of, say, F#, "Oh, it's Haskell with a worse syntax." 04:50:47 zzo38: It's just a bunch of (absurd) XML. 04:51:53 O, I can see that. I will read it and see if I can understand it enough to make a add-in file to support XMPP 04:52:48 The problem is, I don't know if the XML function in PHP can support partial data to send/receive, but I can try. 04:56:05 O, I can see now. The $is_final parameter can be false for parsing partial XML data. 04:57:35 PHP is not the answer. PHP is the question. 04:57:43 No is the answer. 04:58:50 PHP is not the question. PHP is the answer. 04:58:55 No is the question. 04:59:20 ... 04:59:25 @yow 04:59:25 Yes, but will I see the EASTER BUNNY in skintight leather at an IRON 04:59:26 MAIDEN concert? 05:00:39 what does that have to do with the airport in ottawa 05:01:31 well, both can only go downhill from here. 05:01:34 Of course, I have also done other things that nobody likes, such as adding a Forth interpreter into MegaZeux. 05:02:44 And what is that message about EASTER BUNNY and IRON MAIDEN and stuff for? 05:03:08 @. yow yow 05:03:08 YOW!! Everybody out of the GENETIC POOL! 05:03:10 random silly quote, i think from Zippy the Pinhead comic 05:04:54 lambdabot: i might already be. 05:05:23 If I make XMPP, is there a server I can make tests of the client with? 05:07:08 xkcd :D 05:08:06 XMPP seems a bit complicated, how many RFCs do I have to support? 05:08:22 As a furry, I desire to see this leather easter bunny 05:08:35 http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/23657/2094388230103413284S425x425Q85.jpg 05:08:37 related 05:10:23 Which other simpler internet chat protocols are there that I might want to try to implement sooner? 05:20:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 05:22:34 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 05:38:42 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 05:45:48 * Warrigal suddenly loses his distaste for relative clauses of the form "which ". 05:46:27 (Where "which" implies "this" or "that", not "its".) 05:47:18 The cat ate the fish, despite which event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway. 05:47:29 Compare: 05:47:42 The cat might eat the fish, in which case I will continue putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway. 05:51:12 i don't see any clauses of the form "which " up there 05:52:23 maybe you mean " which "? 05:52:38 hm wait no 05:52:50 Yes, I think you were right. 05:52:54 those are " which " 05:53:06 Oh, indeed. 05:54:12 " which ", even. 05:54:47 Okay, so those are fine, at least. Can you think of a reason for using an actual "which ", then? 05:54:58 I guess here's one: "He rode his bike, which fact I hate." 05:55:09 that's not one 05:55:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:55:34 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 05:55:34 This, then: "He rode his bike, which fact is hated by me." 05:55:37 that's "which " in your words 05:55:54 that was 05:56:14 oh right 05:56:29 A more natural example: "My maternal grandfather is dead, which fact saddens me greatly." 05:56:37 I'm balking. Are you? 05:57:18 certainly sounds victorian :D 05:57:23 food -> 06:00:55 "My quantum teleportation reserve has run out, which fact means I'll have to exchange more methanol for it." 06:00:58 :-P 06:01:10 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:16:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:50:08 -!- coppro has joined. 07:51:20 so, I discovered today that due to a provincial program, I can borrow from the local University library without having to purchase a separate membership :) 07:55:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:05 -!- augur has joined. 08:01:15 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:13:00 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 09:39:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:49:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:51:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:55:07 -!- Slereah has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:55:07 -!- AnMaster has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:55:07 -!- ineiros_ has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:55:56 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:55:56 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:55:56 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 09:58:20 -!- AnMaster has quit (SendQ exceeded). 09:59:07 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:59:30 -!- AnMaster has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:59:48 -!- AnMaster has joined. 10:02:05 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 10:03:48 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:39:54 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection). 10:51:39 -!- augur has joined. 11:12:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:23:13 -!- nooga has joined. 11:24:10 hiello 11:26:01 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Excess Flood). 11:40:28 03:50 pikhq: Or in the case of, say, F#, "Oh, it's Haskell with a worse syntax." 11:40:33 s/Haskell/OCaml/ 11:40:47 and OCaml is just Haskell without laziness and with a different syntax. 11:40:48 well 11:40:54 s/worse syntax/.NET shit/ in the F# line 11:41:51 04:47 Warrigal: The cat ate the fish, despite which event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway. 11:42:03 The cat ate the fish; despite this event I continued putting fish food in the fish bowl anyway. 12:07:25 so 12:28:42 F# huh 12:39:48 “Maverick Personal Trainer 12:39:48 Locks Himself in His Studio 12:39:49 for 7 Months… and Creates 12:39:51 the World’s First Robot 12:39:53 that Automatically Makes 12:39:55 Fat Cells Self-Destruct! 12:39:57 ↑ I love one-page spam sites. 12:45:59 O_o 12:46:53 They're amusing. 12:47:22 I'm imagining an anthropomorphic, shiny metal robot staring really hard at your fat cells with its laser eyes. 12:47:25 Pop. Pop. Pop. 12:51:06 Robots hate fat guys 12:58:47 Only if they are programmed to... :-) 13:43:43 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:03:14 -!- Pthing has joined. 14:42:02 "Don't quote me on this, but IIRC, AMD's Sempron processors were faulty Athlon 64s with a few features turned off, and some of the Phenom tri-core processors are quad-cores with a faulty core disabled." 14:42:08 (I'm quoting them on that, but) 14:42:14 AnMaster: pikhq: YOU HAVE FAULTY PROCESSORS 14:42:15 :D 14:42:56 ehird, reliable source? 14:43:05 reddit, so yes. :P 14:43:07 "Don't quote me on this" :P 14:43:10 AnMaster: i've heard it elsewhere though, iirc 14:43:12 about semprons 14:43:16 not about the tri-cores, but it seems logical 14:43:22 after all, x3 vs x4 is an odd product line distinction 14:43:30 i'd expect x3 vs x6 or x2 vs x4 14:43:40 ehird, well, iirc intel have done the same. But my sempron is older than even dual core athlon64s 14:43:52 "AMD's Sempron processors were faulty Athlon 64s with a few features turned off" 14:43:54 as in, they weren't even announced back then 14:43:55 so not core-related for them 14:44:21 AnMaster: i've never heard intel doing it, but both intel and amd just underclock processors that don't run as well at the higher ghz 14:44:23 ehird, and I think it possibly varied. As far as I know the only major difference is much less cache 14:44:27 e.g. a 3.06ghz processor that dies might run at 2.5ghz 14:44:32 and so it drops down a segment 14:45:48 ehird, anyway, a reliable source for Sempron 3300+ (Palermo), /proc/cpuinfo says cpu family: 15, model: 44, stepping: 2 14:46:07 obviously they'd tweak those or whatever 15:02:53 I think the tri-core thing has been officially announced somewhere too, and it's a reasonably sensible way to increase yield. Playstation 3 has that 7-"SPU" Cell, while the chip as designed would have 8 of those units, they just disable one. 15:03:15 Don't know anything about Sempron, though. 15:03:35 fizzie: why would they disable a cell if it's not defective? 15:03:41 it's the same cost, after all, and it's not like it's a retail component 15:03:42 it's bundled 15:04:07 It's a console; they can't really ship 7- and 8-core variants of it. 15:04:43 so why not leave all of 'em on 15:05:01 Because then they'd have to throw away all the processors where only 7 of the 8 units work? 15:05:23 "Playstation 3 has that 7-"SPU" Cell, while the chip as designed would have 8 of those units, they just disable one." didn't imply any being defective; context did but it was still a bit vague 15:05:48 The point was on that "increase yield" part, really. 15:05:54 right 15:05:58 I guess I left a bit too much implicit there, but anyway. 15:06:30 -!- nooga has quit (Connection reset by peer). 15:06:59 At least AMD can sell the working ones as Phenom X4's, which makes more common-sense. 15:26:02 -!- nooga has joined. 15:28:10 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving"). 15:49:29 * ehird notes that the Finder's connect-to-server dialog could do with a dropdown of available connection protocols instead of an opaque text field. 15:50:14 Solution: Enter foo://bar and you'll get; 15:50:31 "URLs should begin with afp://, at://, file://, ftp://, http://, https://, nfs://, smb://, cifs:// or vnc://." 15:50:42 (I say "solution", I mean "kludge".) 15:51:02 I wonder if that's extensible. It'd be nice to add scp://, rsync:// and the like. 15:51:41 Well, I know ExpanDrive does something like that and uses MacFUSE. 15:51:43 if i made simple grid system, would you join? 15:51:47 I wonder if it adds a protocol, though. 15:51:50 nooga: A simple what now? 15:52:09 parallel computing contraption 15:52:20 Oh. 15:52:24 nooga: what's wrong with @home? 15:52:34 don't like it 15:52:53 I probably wouldn't because I don't like my cooling system to be running full-speed all the time. 15:53:32 damn, ExpanDrive uses a separate UI for connecting to the servers 15:56:46 It's been asked in the ADC Q&A thing; as long as that answer is still accurate (not sure if it is) it's not possibel: http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2004/qa1387.html 16:00:30 fizzie: "and uses that to load and run the appropriate URLMount plug-in. The structure of a URLMount plug-in is not publicly documented (r. 3502170)." 16:00:36 So you can do it, it just might break and Apple will be sad. 16:00:40 Which applies to an awful lot of things… 16:01:17 Well, yes. The browsing part is more impossible. 16:01:35 Don't you just love the rdar:// URLs there? 16:01:51 rdar:// URLs are funny. 16:01:55 Such a niche form of helpfulness. 16:02:12 fizzie: I'm sure you could hack something into /Network 16:02:35 [ehird:/Network] % sudo touch butt 16:02:35 Password: 16:02:36 [ehird:/Network] % ls 16:02:38 butt 16:02:40 Not shown in Finder, it just scans, but... 16:03:02 Anyway, it should be possible, dammit. :P 16:03:27 Though, really, manually entering a protocol code? 16:03:32 What's up with that dialog, Apple? 16:06:58 it's rotten 16:07:11 Hurf durf. 16:17:37 wow, someone who uses svn by using an sftp drive pointed to a working directory on the folder that the master copy is on 16:17:48 i hereby give them the Totally Missing the Point Award 2008 16:17:56 (it was in 2008 so there) 16:19:36 huh 16:20:07 from the same post 16:20:08 I am in a work environment where all webdevelopment is on a shared ubuntu 16:20:09 box that most people access through smb (one single user, for the most part) 16:20:10 without any real problems. 16:20:12 so they have one working directory 16:20:15 on a remote server 16:20:20 and all connect to it to edit 16:20:22 as the same user 16:20:26 on the same server as the master copy 16:20:33 THESE PEOPLE ARE RETARDED 16:22:27 o-o 16:22:37 even i'm brighter 16:22:42 :D 16:28:50 huh 16:28:59 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:29:06 just noticed MacFUSE filesystem project template in my xcode 16:29:10 wonder what's that 16:29:52 nooga: MacFUSE lets you make custom filesystems stuff in userspace. 16:30:01 oh 16:30:04 So you could, e.g. 16:30:20 have a wikipedia filesystem that has categories as folders with symlinks to the articles 16:30:21 or whatever 16:30:30 and be able to mount it and modify it and shit without being root 16:30:38 cool 16:31:42 nooga: It's, predictably, a port of FUSE, which is for Linux. 16:32:12 uhm 16:33:05 nooga: uhm? 16:38:58 * pikhq notes that the FUSE API is rather well-supported these days 16:39:07 Well, OK 16:39:21 Hell, even Hurd supports it -- and Hurd doesn't support anything! 16:39:30 Hurd supports your mom. 16:40:06 hurd is turd 16:40:16 * ehird clap. clap. clap. 16:40:20 ... the FUSE API is practically a port of the entire concept behind the Hurd to Linux :P 16:40:34 ;D 16:40:40 The fact that the Hurd supports it is probably due to one 15-line C file. 16:40:45 GregorR-L: No, it mercifully omits the fucked up microkernel/daemon and user system. :P 16:40:56 no no 16:41:01 hurd was a good idea 16:41:03 GregorR-L: Actually, 50 line header. 16:41:04 WAS 16:41:12 Microkernels suck. 16:41:20 Microkernels taste like candy 16:41:26 minix 3 might be cool 16:41:26 So does your mom. 16:41:31 But I don't like her, GregorR-L. 16:41:31 ehird: You're running on one. 16:41:42 darwin micro? 16:41:45 heeeee 16:41:47 pikhq: Ahem... OS X's underlying system is severely fucked up enough not to class as much of anything. 16:41:55 Fair enough. 16:42:00 It's the perfect argument against incest. 16:42:04 really? 16:42:08 (Steve Jobs did start NeXT, after all…) 16:42:23 OS X has Mach, which you'd THINK would support a microkernel, but instead supports one big fat macrokernel :P 16:42:38 when i used linux i had a bit of knowledge how this system works under the hood 16:42:45 but now 16:42:51 when i use OS X 16:42:58 nooga: Step 1. Get employed by Apple. 16:42:59 i don't know anything 16:43:06 Step 2. Stop using OS X because the underpinnings are so horrific. 16:43:35 Horrific is the wrong word. 16:43:40 Lovecraftian. 16:43:49 ':E 16:43:57 (WHY IS THERE XML IN MY INIT‽ WHY‽) 16:44:08 plist 16:44:12 pikhq: Yeah, plist. 16:44:14 in ur init, initin ur system 16:44:16 Plists used to use a plaintext format. 16:44:21 It's stupid that they use XML now, but it's abstracted away. 16:44:28 (The plaintext format was like JSON.) 16:44:35 but i use plists that are visible as xml 16:44:39 Making them ... not plaintext? 16:44:48 Needs more plain text. 16:44:50 GregorR-L: Indeed; they're not *sane* XML. 16:44:55 Instead of ..., it's 16:45:11 barbaz 16:45:13 or something 16:45:17 lol 16:45:28 It was a monumental screwup, changing to XML, but oh well 16:45:29 pikhq: Anyway, by the time you get to the .framework level in OS X, things start to level out sanely. 16:45:35 Underneath that... Not so much. 16:45:50 ehird: Start to. 16:46:31 pikhq: Yes, the low-level frameworks are a bit freaky. 16:46:35 But the ones you actually deal with? Yum. 16:46:38 I'll have me some more of that. 16:46:48 …which contributes to the top-level system being sane. 16:47:35 Making the thing as a whole a lot better than, say, Windows NT. 16:47:45 I think Windows NT might be inverted. 16:47:48 You got userspace code in my kernel! You got kernel code in my userspace! 16:47:49 YAY! 16:47:52 I haven't heard much about the underlying NT kernel being insane. 16:48:02 Just everything above it, which pokes its tendrils downwards into the kernel, molesting it. 16:48:08 There's only a few hacks in the NT kernel. 16:48:30 And that's because "YAY! GUI IN KERNEL!" 16:48:37 Wait, the GUI is in the KERNEL? 16:48:53 Yes, but not for design reasons. 16:49:06 It's for "performance" reasons. 16:49:26 ...I mean, I'm a huge proponent of operating system-provided garbage collector, GUI, and so on - huge - but… if you're gonna have a kernel (I suggest you don't…)… putting a fucking GUI in it?! 16:49:28 >_< 16:49:56 Yeah. 16:51:17 [["Concepts" removed from C++0x]] 16:51:20 I hope they removed the concept of existing. 16:51:29 poignant 16:52:12 What did you know of "Concepts" in C++0x? 16:52:37 And are you aware that they ought to be called "Typeclasses"? 16:53:01 What I said was a joke, and I don't think they were that. 16:53:03 They're implicit typeclasses. 16:53:14 They're more like OCaml's object type. 16:53:44 Oh, thought they were explicit typeclasses. 16:53:58 pikhq: It's just a constraint that a type must have some given methods. 16:54:19 Lame. 16:54:24 Needs more typeclasses. 16:54:44 It's actually useful. 16:54:54 OCaml has it. 16:54:57 Methinks you're going a bit heavy on the Haskell zealotry :P 16:55:02 I mean, it makes sense, pikhq 16:55:03 to have e.g. 16:55:16 type MyObject = { meth1 :: ..., meth2 :: ... } 16:55:19 which is compatible with 16:55:33 type MyObjectTwoElectricBoogaloo = { meth1 :: ..., meth2 :: ..., meth3 :: ... } 16:55:35 then you can infer e.g. 16:55:42 foo x = x>>butt + x>>butt2 16:55:42 → 16:55:55 foo :: (Num a) => { butt :: a, butt2 :: a } -> a 16:56:04 I was intentionally going a bit heavy on the Haskell zealotry. 16:56:30 kay :P 16:57:36 "How will C++0x programming and design look like without Concepts? Brace yourself for many more years of indecipherable template compilation errors. Additionally, type traits will become a hot commodity once again. Presently, type traits are one of the very few proven techniques for enforcing compile-time constraints on templates. Pedagogically, C++ will be a tad easier to teach." 16:57:42 C++0x just got even less appealing! 16:57:54 *C++1x 16:58:00 No way it'll be out in '0x. 16:58:02 Man, that was one of the primary good things *about* C++1x. 16:58:06 *'09. 16:58:12 There's no more naughties to go, heh. 16:58:20 It's like, one of the few features C++ always needed. 16:58:25 mm 16:58:57 Well, I mean, if you're going with template polymorphism, you might as well make it proper polymorphism. 16:59:13 Concepts are the most general way of doing the basic idea. 17:00:14 -!- nooga has quit (Client Quit). 17:02:01 I should zap my PRAM just for the fake nostalgia. 17:02:26 * ehird waits for someone to ask what zapping PRAM is. 17:02:37 What's even more annoying: concepts were the only major C++0x feature that were completely implemented. 17:02:39 Why that's easy; it's the solution to ALL Mac woes! 17:02:57 Got a problem? Just zap your PRAM! Apple have truly simplified the problem-solving cycle. 17:03:12 pikhq: ha! 17:03:36 GCC 4.4 has concepts. 17:03:50 I guess GCC will just have to make that a GNUism. 17:20:03 I have so many windows open that Exposé is becoming quite impractical. 17:20:08 I never close things... 17:20:47 Might I recommend ... 17:20:49 Closing things? 17:20:52 :P 17:30:44 GregorR-L: that's like doing manual memory deallocation. 17:30:54 i have to figure out what i don't need, go into that window, close it, etc. 17:30:58 DUDE 17:31:00 i'd much rather have a window garbage collector. 17:31:04 I want a GC for my window manager. 17:31:05 Hahah 17:31:07 ditto 17:31:23 except instead of destroying the windows it puts them out of the way somewhere, i'm not sure i'd like it to start randomly closing things :D 17:31:56 Pfff 17:31:56 Wuss 17:32:16 GregorR-L: with all the time you idled before saying 'Might I recommend ..." your IRC client might have quit due to the GC 17:32:18 so on second thoughts 17:32:20 i fully support this idea! 17:32:30 :( 17:32:51 i'm sorry GregorR-L 17:32:54 i'm just relaying what YOUR MOM said 17:32:57 THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID! 17:32:57 :'( 17:33:06 *2x Combo! Extra points!* 17:33:11 **LEVEL UP!** 17:33:20 D'; 17:33:21 GregorR-L: Looks like there's something wrong with your face... 17:33:26 ...oh wait, it ALWAYS looks that bad! 17:33:28 I don't think I know any sadder smileys :P 17:33:33 *POINTS++* 17:33:47 GregorR-L: That's what SHE said! 17:33:48 In BED! 17:33:50 To YOU!\ 17:33:54 *POINTS++* 17:43:01 I'm glad mplayer supports caching when reading from the filesystem. 17:43:14 sshfs + mplayer :) 17:43:52 GregorR-L: You know that every player ever does that/ 17:43:52 ? 17:44:06 s/\/\n?/?/ 17:44:28 I'm glad that mplayer supports smb directly. 17:45:38 ehird: Do they? I wouldn't know where to look in a GUI *shrugs* 17:45:50 GregorR-L: What does that second sentence mean? 17:46:12 It means that if I wanted to enable caching of files on the "local" filesystem in a GUI, I wouldn't know where to look. 17:46:28 Preferences->Advanced->Ultra-advanced->Stuff most people shouldn't ever touch->Cache stuff that shouldn't need to be cached 17:47:01 Y'know that most filesystems directly support caching, right? 17:47:12 (Also, s/cache/buffer/ for most players *shrugs*) 17:47:41 I presume you mean buffering -- which is done by default on modern OSes and most players do by default anyways. 17:47:50 Yeah, GregorR-L... it's automatic. 17:47:52 What pikhq said. 17:47:53 There's many things to like about mplayer -- that's not one of them. :P 17:48:13 If you mean "can skip backwards without re-reading" or something, which fits "caching" slightly better, then... all players do that, too. 17:49:42 * GregorR-L installs vlc to test :P 17:50:39 GregorR-L: Anyway, mplayer isn't necessarily command line. Last I checked it had a rather appealing, simple GTK GUI. 17:50:48 Bleh. 17:50:53 * GregorR-L prefers mplayer to gmplayer. 17:50:57 Although it separated the controls from the video window for some inexplicable reason. 17:51:07 (I mean, seriously; what's the point of that?) 17:51:34 http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/_media/media/gmplayer.png?cache=cache&w=900&h=531 ;; okay, WTF is up with that file picker? 17:51:39 I take it back; it sucks. 17:52:13 Weeh, vlc is fekking up. 17:52:25 Perhaps because it's not buffering? Seems probable! 17:52:40 (Or, the buffer is ludicrously small) 17:52:53 pikhq: Can you inform GregorR-L that he thinks that one of the most popular, polished Linux media players doesn't buffer? 17:52:57 Or doesn't buffer enough? 17:53:08 Not buffering FROM THE LOCAL FILESYSTEM 17:53:14 "local" 17:53:16 CAPITAL LETTERS 17:53:23 ehird: Well, it is going over sshfs. He may have done a silly 8G buffer or some such. :P 17:53:33 8G is a weird smiley. 17:53:52 Unhappy glasses-man. He's unhappy because part of his mouth disappeared. 17:53:52 Good lawd, it should not be skipping like this, OK. Maybe it's buffering 1K, but it's not usefully buffering. 17:54:11 Maybe because it would be ridiculous to buffer when as far as you know it's a local file. Not that I have a clue how to convince it otherwise. 17:54:37 ... Ridiculous to buffer on a local file? Really? 17:54:54 Hard drives are fecking slow. 17:54:59 Even the world's slowest, most unreliable hard disk is faster than a bloody MP3. 17:55:21 * pikhq brings out the original 17:55:27 Oh aren't we funny 17:55:45 GregorR-L: QuickTime certainly buffers local files, at least. 17:56:05 I can tell because the progress bar is blank for a split second before it fills in when you open a track. 17:56:08 As does mplayer; defaults to a 1MB buffer, IIRC. 17:56:13 Blankness means unloaded, filled means loaded for networked files. 17:56:22 So it's doing the same for local files, too. 18:20:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:58:21 * SimonRC listens to apollo (live broadcast): http://wechoosethemoon.org/ 19:00:51 Man, listen to all that sound in space. 19:01:05 Man. 19:01:10 turn the "background audio" down as far as it will go 19:01:22 stupid shiny crap 19:08:46 yeah, what GregorR-L said about noise :D 19:09:05 SimonRC: this isn't looking very live 19:09:33 well, exactly 40 years late 19:09:39 :P 19:09:43 but the webcast is live 19:09:45 oh it's the actual apollo broadcasty thing? 19:09:50 yah 19:09:54 that's cool. 19:10:00 Yeah, I'm listenin' 19:10:00 you missed re-gaining contact, but a burn is about to start 19:10:07 unfortunately i can't hear properly 19:10:10 i suck at voices 19:10:33 also, it looks like twitter on the right hand side 19:10:36 It's the accent, isn't it :P 19:10:38 i want to kill whoever made it look like tw— 19:10:40 oh god it's twitter 19:10:44 GregorR-L: no, it's the radio distortion 19:11:37 I don't know how anyone understands it 19:11:56 SimonRC: very good pattern recognition facilities? 19:12:02 I can't listen to the radio, even on good quality 19:12:04 practice maybe 19:12:21 I think I need to see the mouth moving to understand fast speech 19:12:22 fiddle with your audio ballence settings 19:12:28 meh 19:13:44 "Bur de boop" 19:13:46 ↑ what was just said 19:14:04 oops, that made my sound go away 19:14:18 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 19:14:32 what did 19:14:38 fiddling with settings 19:14:40 GregorR-L: ha, I found a link to extra-www on the interwebs 19:14:46 Schweet. 19:14:54 huh? 19:14:58 Hey, the audio stream got clearer. 19:15:04 SimonRC: http://www.www.extra-www.org/ 19:15:20 fuck I did just kill my sound 19:15:34 I am a proud supporter.* (note: * support is determined by inventing the ranking system rather than, say, putting it into place) 19:16:26 * GregorR-L actually does the no-www thing on all his sites :P 19:16:34 Except for extra-www.org of course. 19:16:44 No duh :P 19:17:49 http://www.yourwebsitevalue.com/details/e/x/t/extra-www_org.html // extra-www.org is worth $21 wooh :P 19:19:26 Apparently, ted.com is just worth $711,567; whereas livejournal is worth $55,934,565. 19:19:31 I think I missed the start of the burn 19:19:31 Methinks ted.com is rather more... worthful. 19:19:32 bugger 19:19:54 GregorR-L: yourwebsitevalue.com is worth $50,481, apparently. 19:20:02 lol 19:20:15 It would be funny to offer to buy it at that price, referencing ... itself :P 19:20:38 "I'm readin' you loud and scratchy" lawl 19:20:39 The separation animation when you go to wechoosethemoon.org is a bit too... easy. 19:20:57 Stretch...and...pfft. We're separated in a few seconds. 19:21:06 I got lock on a great hadie, point two miles/ 19:21:12 s/\//./ 19:21:14 ↑ what I heard 19:21:15 guesses requested for what my sound demon is called 19:21:26 SimonRC: alsa. oss. 19:21:30 pulseaudio. 19:21:30 jack. 19:21:38 one of the millions of others 19:21:40 i don't know 19:22:03 Houston we have a fear schematic copy over. 19:22:23 Four zero, zero zero, zero zero, zero zero SPACECRAFT SPACECRAFT 19:22:36 A zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero SPACECRAFT SPACECRAFT 19:22:38 MOON, MOON 19:22:41 OHH IT'S THE MOON 19:23:26 What's that about slaughterhouse five in the bottomright? 19:23:54 ehird: It was listing the most popular books at that time. 19:23:58 Ah. 19:24:00 Just trying to get you in the spirit of 1969 19:24:03 How utterly pointless. :P 19:24:28 So's your face though, so don't blame it *shrugs* 19:24:36 GregorR-L: you know, I think the pulsating vector graphic below the shoutcast radio sign in flashy letters, the high-resolution 3d graphics, and just about everything else about the site... 19:24:39 -!- fungebob has joined. 19:24:41 kinda dispels any 1969 illusions :D 19:24:48 fungebob: I assume you like Funge. 19:24:52 ^^ 19:25:00 I do! 19:25:01 "We got some unexplained road activity." 19:25:06 I didn't know there were roads in space! 19:25:15 fungebob: I'm practically psychic. You been here before? 19:25:20 Yes 19:25:23 Indeed I have. 19:25:33 Approximately all the fekking time :P 19:25:59 in bursts, about every other year 19:26:02 Oh. 19:26:06 Well me has a short memory. 19:26:12 He idles though. 19:26:21 (The only-being-here-since-2007 might have something to do with it too.) 19:26:21 It's depressing that, 40 years after man walked on the moon, we are currently incapable of sending a man to the moon. 19:26:24 But true, I forget about the idlers. 19:26:28 They don't really exist. 19:26:37 pikhq: Incapable? No, there's just not a budget allocated to it. 19:26:41 yeah. im something of a chronic idler. 19:27:16 As it turns out, at this point going to the moon would be more "hey look how cool we are" than "we're accomplishing some scientific knowledge", which is pointless :P 19:27:35 GregorR-L: I don't want us to merely go to the moon. 19:27:48 I want the nation of Luna. 19:27:50 I want us to ... BLOW UP THE MOON! MUAHAHAHAHA 19:27:57 pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. 19:28:05 Atmosphere. Gravity. Resources. 19:28:06 Squat. 19:28:21 Also, if the Earth went kapoot, the moon would be pretty screwed regardless. 19:28:24 It would be the most pointless thing the human race could possibly do apart from watching NASCAR. 19:28:35 ehird: I also want practical fusion. 19:28:42 pikhq: Best served chilled, eh? 19:28:44 ehird: consider low-gravity porn 19:28:51 Which would make man on the moon quite reasonable. 19:28:53 fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. 19:28:55 fungebob++ 19:29:03 (the moon has a decent amount of Hydrogen-3) 19:29:18 `addquote pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. 19:29:19 43| pikhq: A lunar nation is totally pointless. ehird: consider low-gravity porn fungebob: OK. Now I'm convinced. 19:29:23 pikhq: All we need is "Instant Atmosphere, Just Add Planet" and "Gravitron Generator 3000 Ultra+ Extra" 19:29:47 GregorR-L: Low gravity porn is essentially the progenitor of all man's advancement. 19:30:14 Who needs high gravity, and you can have a completely sealed-in nation with oxygen. 19:30:20 It would just suck if it got into war with anyone. 19:30:20 :P 19:30:54 What about a... Jupitan (?!) colony? 19:30:54 (though, there was this trick you could do with launching large amounts of mass into the nearby gravity well...) 19:30:59 That would be insanely hard and impractical to do. 19:31:01 Also awesome. 19:31:05 How about Venus. Or Europa. 19:31:14 We could go surfing on the great red spot, except we couldn't. 19:31:20 Let's start by getting man in the general vicinity of Jupiter. 19:31:21 Slight issue of impossibility there 19:31:29 pikhq: We're within a solar system ;) 19:31:31 pikhq: Once we're there we might as well get set up :-P 19:31:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makemake_(dwarf_planet) 19:31:39 Let's go to Makemake. 19:31:43 I haven't heard of it before and ist name is cute. 19:31:46 *its 19:31:47 ehird: The moons would be a bit more practical for settlement. 19:31:56 Let's go to ... Andromeda? 19:32:02 pikhq: Mars would be the most practical, I think 19:32:08 I saw recently a great argument against colonising other planets in case of asteroid strike... 19:32:11 * GregorR-L still argues for Venus :) 19:32:17 ehird: I also want the moon! 19:32:18 Mercury might be, but... bit hot there, I imagine. 19:32:26 Mars would be quite easy compared to the others. 19:32:32 even after an asteroid strike,. the Earth might still be more habitable than those other planets 19:32:33 Mars is also a good idea. 19:32:36 You know; the ones that have obstacles like "is agiant ball of gas". 19:32:40 *a giant 19:32:50 If we can add an atmosphere to Mars, surely we can unfuckup the atmosphere of Venus. 19:32:58 Mars is a bit harder to ship stuff to than the moon, but the environment is certainly easier to work with. 19:33:09 Namely, you already have water there. 19:33:27 Yeah, exactly. 19:33:32 It has precedent. 19:33:37 Surface temp. 19:33:37 Kelvin 19:33:39 Celsius 19:33:41 minmeanmax 19:33:43 186 K227 K268 K[4] 19:33:44 ordinary air is a lifting gas on Venus, so we could supposedly make airship colonies 19:33:45 −87 °C−46 °C−5 °C 19:33:47 Bit chilly. 19:33:50 But warm enough to make warm. 19:33:52 IMO. 19:34:16 SimonRC: I LOVE THAT IDEA 19:34:26 Surface temp. 19:34:26 0°N, 0°W 19:34:28 85°N, 0°W 19:34:30 minmeanmax 19:34:32 100 K340 K700 K 19:34:34 80 K200 K380 K 19:34:36 Yow. 19:34:38 Mercury is really hot. 19:34:42 "duh" 19:34:53 well actually, the mean isn't that hot 19:35:03 700 K, though... :-) 19:35:17 It's close to the sun and doesn't afraid of anything. 19:35:22 But you can surf on the oceans of molten lead 19:35:26 SimonRC: Venus has the same problem as mercury, except worse. 19:35:31 oops, I didn't need to reboot, I just needed to slide one slider 19:35:32 The mean surface temp i 461 C. 19:35:35 *is 19:35:37 MEAN. 19:35:44 Actually, I wonder how they define surface. 19:35:48 high in the atmosphere what the proposal I heard 19:35:55 Wait. 19:35:58 Venus is a terrestrial planet? 19:36:01 ... 19:36:01 yeah 19:36:03 ... >_< 19:36:03 Yes. 19:36:04 I seriously didn't know that. 19:36:06 lol 19:36:10 ... 19:36:14 Wow. I'm, retarded. 19:36:15 Venus is Earth with fucked up greenhouse effects. 19:36:16 It merely has a fucking thick atmosphere. 19:36:17 I'm retarded. 19:36:27 pikhq: It looks so gassy. 19:36:30 and no tectonic activity, which may be related 19:36:33 GregorR-L: And volcanos. 19:36:34 (Planets fart a lot. BADUM TISH) 19:36:41 Anyway, yeah, Venus is just tooooo hot. 19:36:49 at the surface 19:37:04 But it's not hot due to sun proximity, it's just hot due to atmosphere. That's probably more of a solvable problem. Or not :) 19:37:11 And yeah, like SimonRC said, who needs the surface? 19:37:16 giant sunshade 19:37:54 Still, Mars would be the easiest. 19:38:01 I think the loud clicks are the astronauts flicking switches 19:38:08 or ratehr, the resulting sparks 19:38:09 not sure 19:38:17 Venus also has SULFURIC ACID RAIN 19:38:46 Mars is warm enough that we could build a warming dome, it has water and had life ... 19:38:48 pikhq: So do we, just less of it :P 19:39:03 GregorR-L: Its rain *is* sulfuric acid. 19:39:06 And its atmosphere isn't that bad, is it? 19:39:15 The clouds are made of sulfuric acid droplets. 19:39:15 ehird: It's atmosphere isn't that existent. 19:39:16 So, I definitely think Mars would be the easiest thing in our solar system to make habitable. 19:39:19 IT HAS A SULFURIC ACID CYCLE. 19:39:21 GregorR-L: Exactly. 19:39:28 That's better than Venus. 19:39:41 Idonno, is it? Shipping ridiculous amounts of oxygen to another planet? 19:39:50 you just need some Boeing air-miners ;-) 19:39:51 It has water. 19:39:56 What pikhq said. 19:39:57 (/me liked that trilogy) 19:40:05 I mean, Mars is basically jumbo-sized Luna with water + precedent of life. 19:40:17 All you need to get some oxygen is a heater, a battery, and a couple of electrodes. 19:40:22 You're not gonna find a planet more perfect than earth, so you gotta do with what you got. :) 19:40:28 (you may also want somewhere to store the resulting hydrogen) 19:40:43 I wonder what the theoretical range of wireless charging is. 19:40:53 Could we build ginormous charging satellites and use them on both Earth and Mars? :-D 19:40:57 (note: unlikely) 19:40:58 ehird: Range of light. 19:41:03 Oh, really? 19:41:04 That's nice. 19:41:07 You can use microwaves to transmit power. 19:41:17 how tightly can one focus a laser? 19:41:20 or a maser 19:41:27 SimonRC: Very. 19:41:29 pikhq: Surely you have to choose between safety or enough power to do anything in the case of microwaves, though. 19:41:37 ehird: Obviously. 19:41:42 Right. 19:41:46 So, discounting microwaves. :P 19:41:51 Eh, just use gamma radiation instead. 19:41:58 well, we could adapt some launching lasers to transmit power 19:42:09 GregorR-L: The human race loooves you. 19:42:14 An absurd amount of solar cells. 19:42:14 LIEK I NOSE 19:42:23 The most important thing is... 19:42:34 Can we get good latency to Earth's internet satellites from Mars? :-) 19:42:50 ehird: Half an hour latency, unless you have an ansible. 19:42:54 :< 19:42:59 Half an hour is kinda bad. 19:43:00 I've wanted to make a layer-3 proxy that just sits on packets for $AMOUNT_OF_TIME_TO_CHOSEN_PLANET 19:43:03 I wonder what the maximum safe acceleration is when one is submersed in a breathable liquid 19:43:08 So we could see how effed up Intarwebs would be. 19:43:14 "In an historic move, Microsoft Monday submitted driver source code for inclusion in the Linux kernel under a GPLv2 license." 19:43:14 It's about 30 lightminutes away. So. 19:43:16 *splutter* 19:43:27 pikhq: Erm, really? 19:43:29 ehird: It's a module that helps only them. 19:43:29 ehird: It's for the Windows virtualisation ABI. 19:43:31 Good lord people, read. 19:43:32 Isn't earth 8 lightminutes away from the su— 19:43:33 ordinary internet has a TLL max of 255 sec 19:43:34 Oh, wait. 19:43:35 Which Linux already had partial support for. 19:43:38 Um. 19:43:49 The distance between Sun<->Earth is smaller than the distance between Earth<->Mars? 19:43:49 Mars--Earth varies a lot 19:43:51 I didn't know that 19:43:54 SimonRC: ah 19:44:03 * GregorR-L explains the concept of orbit to ehird :P 19:44:13 Shut up, GregorR-L. I just thought it was closer to us. :P 19:44:22 the orbits are roughly an exponential pattern 19:44:32 This is why my proxy would be schweet. 19:44:35 ehird: Double the earth-to-mars distance, and add a few more lightminutes. 19:44:36 Now I want to write it again. 19:44:38 Guys, I figured out how to get an internet connection on Mars. 19:44:40 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Kirks_Soap_Yerkes_Mars.jpg 19:44:52 Erm. Earth-to-sun. 19:44:54 Build a gigantic cable that at its widest point is as wide as mars. 19:44:56 Attach it to mars. 19:45:02 Optionally, drive lorries along it. 19:45:06 well NASA are working on an "interplanetary internet" 19:45:17 Thank you, Mr Yerke. 19:45:18 we could just use it for off-site backups 19:45:30 there is so much stuff on and around mars that it is worth creating a satellite specialised to high-power comms 19:45:32 SimonRC: Yes; current Martian probes use IP for transmission. 19:45:39 pikhq: Yes, but... slowly... 19:45:59 The orbiter is a router, and the landers talk to it. 19:46:02 Shame that the theoretical maximum is 30 minutes. 19:46:12 Any way around it? 19:46:17 Er, I don't mean 19:46:18 faster than light 19:46:21 And there's satellites in Earth orbit that talk to the orbiter. 19:46:22 I mean internet infrastructure 19:46:37 ehird: Mirror the World Wide Web on Mars. 19:46:49 NNTP! 19:46:49 pikhq: that doesn't let you chat to people on earth :P 19:46:54 But I guess that's just not gonna be feasible. 19:46:56 Email. 19:47:00 And that's a damn shame; so much for globalization. 19:47:08 Ansible. 19:47:19 pikhq: Sort of impossible. 19:47:28 Well... 19:47:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon 19:47:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 19:47:32 pikhq: lorentz symmetry 19:47:40 But tachyons are weird; it could be that Earth is sending us the packets we sent, or something. 19:47:41 Reimagined as. 19:47:43 I don't get it. 19:47:48 stable wormhole 19:48:05 Yeah, we'll just put a wormhole in orbit around mars. 19:48:07 Great idea, that. 19:48:11 And earth. 19:48:17 * GregorR-L does so. 19:48:19 Well, it's more practical than using one for transmission, at least. 19:48:32 in soviet space-time, mars orbit wormhole 19:48:41 Since you don't need the thing to not tear *people* apart. ;) 19:48:44 seriously, the theoretical "mass" is just too big 19:48:46 SimonRC: *orbits 19:48:47 "Soviet space-time" lol 19:48:50 Erm. Transportation. 19:48:54 19:48 SimonRC: seriously, the theoretical "mass" is just too big 19:48:55 wat? 19:49:15 I thought the mass for even a slightly usable wormhole was larger than the sun 19:49:21 or was that for matter transmittion? 19:49:22 Crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle crackle. 19:49:23 ah 19:49:24 dunno 19:49:32 ehird: 'tis a bit 19:49:42 * ehird gives up on wechoosethemoon.org; too boring atm. 19:50:20 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Worm3.jpg ← Throat, ey? 19:50:23 Wormhole porn anyone? 19:50:47 ehird: well, certain sorts of porn would be helped by it 19:51:38 SimonRC: i'm trying to figure out what you mean. 19:52:53 ehird: Done. 19:52:59 (Portal) 19:53:05 pikhq: lawl 19:53:09 wormhole porn? 19:53:16 fungebob: Portal porn; Portal portals are wormholes. 19:53:25 i have a wormhole porn limerick 19:53:28 "Unfortunately it is impossible for a traveller to pass through the wormhole from one Universe into the other. A traveller can pass through a horizon only in one direction, indicated by the yellow arrows. First, the traveller must wait until the two white holes have merged, and their horizons met. The traveller may then enter through one horizon. But having entered, the traveller cannot exit, either through that horizon or through the horizon on the othe 19:53:31 r side. The fate of the traveller who ventures in is to die at the singularity which forms from the collapse of the wormhole." 19:53:44 // somehow I don't think said traveller would actually experience this 19:54:15 "What I'd love is a wormhole in space 19:54:20 in a very particular place 19:54:28 I'd try to contrive it 19:54:32 so one end's at my privates 19:54:32 ah, of course, your could literally fuck yourself 19:54:37 and the other's attached to my face." 19:54:54 SimonRC: you couldn't do penetrative intercourse without moving the wormhole 19:55:03 it disturbs me that I can reason this 19:55:42 as a prerequisite or as a consequence? 19:55:51 prerequisite 19:56:37 * SimonRC can't quite see that 19:57:16 SimonRC: when you moved your penor forwards, your butt would move forwards too 19:57:21 QED 19:57:32 oh, yeah 19:57:36 duh 19:57:36 right 19:57:44 Of course. 19:57:47 ehird: This is why you'd move the wormhole. 19:57:48 It's so obvious now! 19:57:53 but what if the wormhole had a half-twist? 19:57:55 pikhq: That hurts my brain, though 19:57:58 s/ $/./ 19:58:19 the solution to that is to use it for time travel instead, and have sex with a shifted version of yourself 19:58:41 SimonRC: shaky. depends on how consciousness works. 19:58:49 huh? 19:58:53 it's entirely possible you'd end up as one mind with two bodies and brains 19:59:04 well, FSVO entirely possible 19:59:20 yeah, in a dualist universe 20:00:07 CARTESIAN DUALISM FTW 20:00:53 Hurf durf, I'm an exception to the normal laws of physics cuz im speshul 20:01:20 why are they out of contact now? 20:01:34 Who? The moon guys? 20:01:38 yeah 20:02:33 lol@bottomright bit about the loch ness monster 20:03:22 "Because Descartes' was such a difficult theory to defend, some of his disciples, such as Arnold Geulincx and Nicholas Malebranche, proposed a different explanation: That all mind-body interactions required the direct intervention of God." 20:04:14 Anyway, it's not surprising that a Christian would be a dualist. 20:04:20 "I'll use Cartesian Dualism to seperate my mind from my body!" (+735 mindless damage) http://dresdencodak.com/2006/12/03/dungeons-and-discourse/ 20:04:38 ... That's replacing an arbitrary, indefensible theory that is at least interesting to think about with... Sheer stupidity. 20:04:40 It's even harder to justify as a monist/. 20:04:42 describing dualism as "i am an exception to the laws of physics" is a terrible caricature 20:04:44 s/\\// 20:05:01 pikhq: Oh, you don't really think Cartesian dualism is true. 20:05:01 Kay. 20:05:08 Pthing: it's called an irc oneliner 20:05:14 they generally aren't accurate 20:05:18 "Maybe mind and body are seperate." to "Mind and body are seperate and GOD MAKES THEM TALK TO EACH OTHER! LAWLS!" 20:05:33 why's that any more stupid 20:06:28 They claim that god being involved makes it easier to defend. 20:06:37 well it does 20:06:56 you don't have to call it god, they just did back then 20:07:26 Ack. Just got really silent :P 20:07:27 It just seems like a stupid philosophical debate. 20:07:33 well it is 20:07:43 True enough. 20:07:53 but it's not as stupid as just accepting any position blindly 20:08:08 "Mind and body are seperate!" "What does this imply?" "I... don't know." 20:08:35 (I wonder how you DO justify christianity as a monist.) 20:08:39 (In general.) 20:09:08 maybe the mind is copied out when you die? 20:09:14 ehird: With great difficulty. 20:09:23 SimonRC: define death 20:09:30 information-theoretic death? by definition you can't recover it then 20:09:40 anything before that? revival is theoretically possible 20:09:48 it's not really much harder than with dualism, surely 20:09:54 pikhq: but that's not the point, amirite 20:09:56 neutral monism makes it trivial 20:10:01 (relatively) 20:10:01 ehird: Hah. 20:10:27 pikhq: Hey, that's what y'all say. :P 20:10:46 and idealist monism 20:10:53 has been historically popular 20:14:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:23:35 I think the lunar orbit diagram is fucked up 20:23:49 it doesn't show the module as being behind the Moon 20:27:12 14th revolution? yeah the diagram is wrong 20:27:44 * ehird looks at the intro sequence again; determines that there is in fact a dark side of the moon 20:27:51 matter of fact half of it's light. 20:28:14 Hey, they mentioned MIT. 20:28:15 I like MIT 20:28:22 . 20:28:34 the far side of the moon is made of darker rock than the near side mostly 20:28:47 Ver. 20:28:49 Very. 20:28:52 Very dark rock. 20:29:35 Hm. 20:29:37 It just cut out. 20:29:40 Oh, it's back. 20:30:01 I like to think that the nm distance is actually nanometers. 20:30:28 It's 0.22mm away. 20:31:35 Crackle, crackl.e 20:31:37 nautical miles: "Lets make up some things that are similar to real miles but slightly different enough that they aren't interchangeable, and give the excuse that they correspond to latitue change at the equator" 20:31:37 *crackle. 20:31:44 yeah 20:31:48 SimonRC: well, they just took the mean of a sea mile 20:31:55 so they actually improved on the sea mile 20:32:00 as opposed to having it fuckin' vary 20:32:03 right, see if there is any food in this building, 'coz I ain't leaving 20:32:14 ah 20:32:21 does nautical mile pre- or post-date regular miles anyway? 20:32:24 I don't know 20:34:52 crackle 20:34:52 crackle 20:37:52 Crackle. 20:38:04 dunno what is doing that 20:39:06 No communication, I guess. 20:39:55 so why does it come and go? 20:40:06 also, had they not invented FM by this point? 20:40:28 SimonRC: I guess they got tired of saying "Hey... we're going to the fucking moon." "Heyup, tru dat." "The moon. Like, us, on the moon." "You got it." 20:40:43 Also, maybe FM's latency was too high or something (note: I'm an idiot) 20:40:59 ehird: FM is significantly less tolerant of interferance. 20:41:04 That, then. 20:41:11 pikhq: ITYM "SimonRC:" 20:41:23 Also, FM is harder to do. 20:42:03 so why is FM clearer on my radio? 20:42:08 You can just about do AM with a tin can and some string. :P 20:42:38 SimonRC: Because its transmission mode makes interference less noticable. 20:44:33 This is Apollo control. 20:44:47 ehird: gottit 20:45:32 Around 9.5 miles from the Moon. 20:45:46 Also, going fast. 20:46:04 * SimonRC wonders what all those people in the control room do 20:46:43 Lots of stuff. 20:46:59 SimonRC: Check shit doesn't blow up, I'd gues. 20:47:00 guess. 20:47:14 ooh, we get signal! 20:47:37 KRRRRRRRRT 20:47:45 KRRRRRRRT 20:48:52 This needs subtitles. 20:49:00 oh, yeah, the powered descent is behind the moon (again) 20:49:00 lol 20:49:17 SimonRC: i don't get what you mean by that 20:49:19 I'm sure the NASA website has full transcripts somewhere 20:49:35 also, what's the point of this if it's already available? 20:49:43 well i guess just the audio could be newly released 20:49:53 ehird: the lunar module has to go behind the moon one more time before landing 20:49:57 ehird: We're all getting to listen to it simultaneously? 20:50:06 exactly 40 years after it happened 20:50:10 Well, kay. 20:50:15 SimonRC: exactly? 20:50:17 To the planck time? 20:50:25 well, close 20:50:30 20:49 SimonRC: ehird: the lunar module has to go behind the moon one more time before landing 20:50:31 :P 20:50:35 i don't understand what you're trying to say 20:50:53 they are going round the moon, right? 20:51:01 and they have to slow down to land 20:51:14 and they can't actually slow that quickly 20:51:14 yuh, and? 20:51:24 SimonRC: ok... and? 20:51:27 what are you trying to say 20:51:53 they are going to go round behind the moon once more before they actually land 20:52:08 ok... and why do you find this pertinent enough to mention? :P 20:52:15 *sigh* 20:52:26 It's a simple question 20:52:44 the diagram in the lower right doesn't show it 20:52:54 ah. 20:53:04 Today is also my grandmother's birthday. 20:53:06 well it is just a progress bar with a vague indicator 20:53:06 oh, waitamo, it does actually 20:55:17 "An altitude of 12.9 nautical miles" :P 20:55:23 12.9 miles into the OCEAN OF SPACE 20:55:50 Yes. 20:55:56 SimonRC: ah, it does. 20:56:01 GregorR-L: Spacean. 20:59:24 dude, like your rada and eyes disagree by 6% 20:59:45 SimonRC: ? 21:00:06 their visual check said 5300nm and their radar said 50000nm 21:00:12 *53000 21:00:22 ah 21:00:38 SimonRC: it's at ft in the Distance from Moon thing 21:00:40 not nm 21:00:49 yeah, I meant feet 21:00:51 also 50000 is obviously averaged 21:00:55 it hasn't changed for ages 21:01:25 BTW, from what they said, the noise is because their HG antenna isn't pointing quite the right way 21:01:41 All radio is noisy :P 21:01:54 the roaring bits 21:02:06 ah 21:02:19 the aidio is 30s off from the countdown 21:02:26 SimonRC: the KRRRRRRRT you mean? 21:02:30 yeah 21:02:43 also, 30s — maybe uhh 21:02:49 earth rotation offset? wait, leap years 21:02:52 i'm dumb today 21:03:38 unless the even times are only to the nearest minute 21:04:05 *event 21:04:13 and that seems likely 21:04:13 that would make sense given that it is counting down to exactly 102:33:00 21:05:04 stupid pinging noise 21:05:36 ok good bit coming up 21:05:57 * ehird listens 21:06:01 paused for a sec 21:06:12 hoston we got lost 21:06:17 time to go air freedom 21:06:24 i am good hearing person 21:06:33 SimonRC: any complications launching the module thingy? 21:06:48 hmm new twitter stuff from refreshing 21:06:51 it went black before that 21:06:56 no complications 21:07:12 SimonRC: if you change view you can see a "UNITED STATES" sticker on it 21:07:16 if lost, please return to... 21:07:22 *found 21:07:59 wow 21:08:10 SimonRC: we're now 220249 nm from the moon 21:08:22 i guess it just shot off into space huh 21:08:23 :D 21:08:46 wonder if they'll fix it 21:08:55 SimonRC: wow that's noisy 21:09:02 yeah 21:09:27 Yup, can't understand any of this :P 21:09:32 Oh, just quieted a bit? 21:09:37 yep 21:09:58 i'm just absorbing it as ambience 21:10:02 since i have no hope of hearing what they say 21:10:20 eveidentally there is a separate data channel 21:10:31 SimonRC: ? 21:10:35 howso 21:10:41 they were referring to "data dropouts" 21:10:48 ah 21:10:57 or maybe "dating dropouots" ;-) 21:11:03 :P 21:11:25 1202 program alarm 21:11:39 SimonRC: sounds like 6125 here 21:11:44 sixteen sixty eight 21:11:54 "6+25" it was 21:12:03 6+25 = 1202! 21:12:26 Yes, 1202 FACTORIAL. 21:12:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 21:13:25 ok, now I'm confused... 21:13:31 maybe they are going to land in a few moments 21:13:41 SimonRC: no 21:13:44 look at the diagram 21:13:49 one more half revolution 21:13:53 then they'll dig into the moon 21:13:54 :-P 21:14:00 X-D 21:14:15 that's an awesome idea, they should have done that 21:14:20 They're actually digging quite a bit THROUGH the moon. 21:14:33 That's true. 21:14:38 For as deep as they end up, they've dug some five times more than they needed to. 21:14:51 If you take the previous point as being connected to it by an invisible line, they'll dig all the way through. 21:15:00 Then do the route backwards. 21:15:02 the 1201 is hapenning again 21:15:04 Whoa. Chang. 21:15:06 Change. 21:15:09 SimonRC: 1201 or 1202 21:15:13 also, I don't hear that 21:15:15 is it the beep thing 21:15:17 woah 21:15:18 they're landing 21:15:26 they're like wow 21:15:31 hey, they stopped. :D 21:15:36 they're floating in the air. 21:15:39 wait 21:15:44 SimonRC: aren't they meant to orbit again? 21:15:46 oh wait 21:15:48 it's advancing 21:16:02 SimonRC: ok, they're using a bad diagram to represent the redirection 21:16:06 you can see it's advancing very quickly 21:16:07 40 sec 21:16:43 Ding. Ding. Ding. 21:16:45 Here we goooooooooooooooooooooooo 21:17:13 What's that burning stuff? 21:17:14 Oh. 21:17:15 the lights? 21:17:24 SimonRC: I don't think it landed that smoothly 21:17:24 :D 21:17:31 wat, there's a return to earth button 21:17:34 what does it do? 21:17:48 Well, that was a fun, brief visit. 21:17:50 *return to Earth* 21:17:51 :P 21:17:55 starts a too long loading thingy 21:17:57 Haven't even landed yet and already we're leaving. 21:18:00 GregorR-L: you click it and figure out what it does 21:18:03 also, er 21:18:04 we've landed 21:18:05 :P 21:18:06 concentrating... 21:18:09 SimonRC: ? 21:18:14 image is way ahead 21:18:15 Oh Lord. Someone's trying to get Gene Ray, Doctor of Cubic, to lecture at my university. 21:18:19 SimonRC: oh 21:18:22 pikhq: awesome 21:18:28 pikhq: he did MIT, why not that place 21:18:29 pikhq: Schweet 21:18:34 "... The eagle has landed" 21:18:47 GregorR-L: This is sure to be interesting. 21:18:47 *cheer* 21:18:49 anyone returned to earth? 21:18:54 SimonRC: i don't hear cheering yet :( 21:19:01 I am cheering 21:19:04 oh 21:19:04 :P 21:19:11 Someone return to earth, dammit. 21:19:14 Might be slightly tricky to get the powers that be to approve the venture, but only slightly. 21:19:15 NOSE 21:19:17 SCREW EARTH 21:19:23 BUT THE BUTTON MIGHT DISAPPEAR 21:19:33 do it in another tab or something :P 21:20:01 pikhq: GregorR-L: "Distance from moon 220259 nm" 21:20:07 :P 21:20:07 It's one of them optical illusions. 21:20:19 er 21:20:19 SimonRC: 21:20:20 not pikhq 21:20:51 "distance from moon 120ft" 21:21:03 "I welcome the opportunity to lecture at the University of Missouri, please procede with the venture. Be warned, be careful, for you could pay a price for your yearning." -- Gene Ray, Doctor of Cubic 21:21:11 pikhq: wat 21:21:16 time cube guy 21:21:20 I know 21:21:21 Hahahah 21:21:22 I just mean, wat 21:21:25 Meanwhile, http://www.theonion.com/content/index?utm_source=nav 21:21:28 That is such a Time Cube thing to say. 21:21:42 pikhq: Doctor of Cubicism, btw. 21:21:43 Not Cubic. 21:21:45 Get it right. 21:22:40 ehird: Fine, fine. 21:22:48 Gene Ray, Cubic and Wisest Human 21:23:34 Anyone returned to earth? 21:23:40 Return to fucking earth, you bitch. 21:23:41 Yes, you. 21:24:17 Made with all ingredients, this gel is perfect for any occasion. Child and adult enjoy it equally, sometimes, as do even pets! If you need gel, buy this gel. 21:24:18 The device has been completed and is now available for sale. Code 41-Virtue-00B 21:24:20 http://www.yuwanmei.com/products 21:24:30 I want the Device. 21:24:49 what is "stay/no stay"? 21:25:20 What? 21:25:24 Just go to earth. 21:25:34 Oh. 21:25:36 I see. 21:25:39 SimonRC: we're seconds out of sync :P 21:25:43 Probably whether they're going to, y'know, STAY or NOT STAY :P 21:26:05 "On the ground"? 21:26:07 Are they out yet? 21:26:18 I assume not, as we haven't had Armstrong's speech. 21:26:18 they had a load of stuff to do 21:26:22 yeah 21:26:30 make sure thaty they weren't leaking for example 21:26:35 World's most public goof :) 21:26:45 GregorR-L: What goof? 21:26:48 if they were leaking fule, they would be unable to get off unless they went right away 21:26:50 Oh. 21:26:51 I guess 21:26:53 You mean the [a] man thing. 21:26:55 Right? 21:26:55 Yeah 21:27:12 It's not really a goof, IMO... It's way better this way. 21:27:16 ?!?!? 21:27:17 Unknown command, try @list 21:27:18 "a man" would have been much less memorable. 21:27:18 I thought hea said "One small step f'ra man..." 21:27:21 What are you, in idiot? 21:27:39 GregorR-L: It flows much better as "One small step for man..." 21:27:46 SimonRC: He maintained that too, but analysis of the recordings says not. 21:27:49 It may flow better, but it's meaningless. 21:27:51 ehird: true 21:27:56 GregorR-L: true 21:28:03 GregorR-L: It's only meaningless if you can't pattern-match. 21:28:09 One small step for mankind, one giant leap for mankind. 21:28:09 We're gigantic inferring, pattern-matching machines. 21:28:15 ah, the reason for not using auto-targeting 21:28:16 The meaning is obvious, clear and precise. 21:28:28 It's only obvious because it's obvious the goof he made :P 21:28:28 SimonRC: I didn't hear; what was it? 21:28:39 GregorR-L: Uhh, a ton of people didn't think it was a goof. 21:28:44 there were loads of rocks where it was putting them 21:29:06 SimonRC: It said that in the top-left mission status thing. 21:29:13 GregorR-L: I'va got something to make yer blood boil. 21:29:21 "Saying it was a waste of $11, Los Angeles resident Dan Bevver expressed disappointment Sunday that The Taking Of Pelham 1 2 3 was not nearly as bad as he had been anticipating. After going in with expectations of hammy acting and clichéd dialogue, Bevver was irritated to find an adequate retelling of the 1974 film, with performances that ranged from acceptable to decent." 21:29:39 >_< 21:29:43 THAT MOVIE WAS SUCK 21:30:02 "And don't forget one in the command module" lol 21:30:02 GregorR-L: It's an Onion article. :P 21:30:02 ehird: there was a similar review of the new ST movie 21:30:05 Saddest thing ever said? :P 21:30:09 GregorR-L: I was muted; what did they say beforehand? 21:30:15 SimonRC: ST? 21:30:20 star trek 21:30:32 ehird: lots of smiling faces in the command room 21:30:43 21:30 GregorR-L: Saddest thing ever said? :P 21:30:45 How's it sad 21:30:58 I dun geddit 21:31:16 Well, he said it himself. The guy in the command module. They said something about two guys being up there, and he said "And don't forget one in the command module" :P 21:31:29 Ah. :P 21:31:50 that was the furthest one person had ever been from any other human alone 21:32:03 ... I doubt that. 21:32:04 Highly. 21:32:49 SimonRC: wasn't there that report of those two guys who heard a russian drift off into space 21:33:05 a russian drifting into space? 21:33:05 D-8 21:33:08 SimonRC: also, what do you mean by that? 21:33:10 also, yeah 21:33:13 nothing official 21:33:23 read it about a web article, some kids hijacked the communications of missions and stuff 21:33:32 i don't recall the url 21:33:40 21:31 SimonRC: that was the furthest one person had ever been from any other human alone 21:33:42 what does that mean 21:33:45 i can't parse that sentence properly 21:34:13 well, untill the seperation, they were 25000mi from most humanity, but only a few meters from each other 21:34:18 ah 21:34:45 SimonRC: wait, i'm not sure i understand 21:34:48 who is apart from who 21:36:42 Collins will soon be 1000s of miles from Armstrong and Aldrin 21:36:53 ah 21:37:33 i never really thought much about the return mission... or anyone but armstrong or aldrin... of course someone had to say behind 21:37:34 i'm silly 21:37:48 i haven't really ever thought much about apollo 11 :p 21:38:56 ooh, they are doing a computer memory dump 21:39:04 SimonRC: what... all of it? 21:39:07 over the audio channel? 21:39:12 dunno 21:39:20 it must have had a kilobyte or two of memory 21:39:39 Launch dateJuly 16, 1969 21:39:39 13:32:00 UTC 21:39:43 what, exactly? 21:40:02 I don't know the answers to either of your questions 21:40:11 :P 21:40:14 Number of lunar orbits30 21:40:21 SimonRC: methinks that diagram was... not very accurate :D 21:40:29 Methinks duh. 21:40:35 i know 21:40:38 's called a joke 21:40:42 ehird: Yes, with second accuracy. 21:40:57 pikhq: huh 21:41:04 wanted to make a show huh :) 21:41:50 how long until they get out? 21:42:08 [[Shortly after landing, before preparations began for the EVA, Aldrin broadcast that: 21:42:08 This is the LM pilot. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask every person listening in, whoever and wherever they may be, to pause for a moment and contemplate the events of the past few hours and to give thanks in his or her own way.[15] 21:42:12 He then took Communion privately.]] 21:42:21 I just read that 21:42:24 this second 21:42:36 "I've landed on the goddamn moon thanks to decades, nay centuries, of scientific progress and human accomplishment. I know! I'll go eat a Jewish zombie's flesh." 21:44:05 i'm not sure why you'd risk drinking any amount of alcohol for such an important thing tbh, but there you go 21:44:06 hmm, nice tech support 21:44:19 haha, i wish i could hear what they're saying 21:44:32 they're talking about correcting the mission timer 21:44:41 ah 21:44:41 lol 21:44:52 it seems the first digit is a 9 instead of a 1 21:44:54 I think 21:44:58 assuming it is hhhmmss 21:45:11 SimonRC: At 02:56 UTC on Monday July 21 (10:56pm EDT, Sunday July 20), 1969, Armstrong began his descent to the Moon's surface 21:45:17 so midnight in the UK 21:45:22 until they descend 21:45:25 wow that's a long time to wait. 21:45:30 i'm preëmptively bored 21:49:18 After the astronauts planted a U.S. flag on the lunar surface, they spoke with President Richard Nixon through a telephone-radio transmission which Nixon called "the most historic phone call ever made from the White House." 21:49:23 1-800-MOON 21:50:36 "While moving in the cabin Aldrin accidentally broke the circuit breaker that armed the main engine for lift off from the moon. There was initial concern this would prevent firing the engine, which would strand them on the moon. Fortunately a felt-tip pen was sufficient to activate the switch." 21:50:40 "The schedule for the mission called for the astronauts to follow the landing with a five-hour sleep period" -- ok, you just landed on the moon. now take a nap 21:50:49 "Whoopsy! Oh, never mind. I just poked it." 21:51:06 SimonRC: would be a gripping tv thingy that 21:51:16 "AND NOW, A PICTURE OF THE MODULE FOR FIVE HOURS" 21:51:39 i wonder how long they actually walked on the moon 21:51:47 not long 21:51:59 yeah, I'm just wondering actually how long 21:52:04 11 was pretty much a flags and footprints affair, IIRC 21:52:10 and some samples 21:52:33 fuck, well I can't listen to the famous line in pseudo-real time 21:52:44 SimonRC: er, lag much? 21:52:46 I said that ages ago 21:52:53 I ought to at least go home before that point 21:53:01 no, the "one small step" line 21:53:19 [[Subsequent Apollo missions usually planted the American flags at least 100 feet (30 m) from the LM to avoid being blown over by the ascent engine exhaust.]] 21:53:20 wait what? 21:53:23 I thought we only walked on the moon once 21:53:25 ... 21:53:29 I really don't know much about our space missions 21:53:33 uh what? 21:53:34 I wonder whyn ot 21:53:43 SimonRC: really, my mind's making shit up 21:53:49 to cover for black holes in my knowledge 21:53:52 strange 21:54:08 what's your timezone? 21:54:22 Whatever it is in the UK; BST? 21:54:30 yes 21:54:33 I am in BST too 21:54:39 so it's 2154 now 21:55:31 ah, someone describing the Earth 21:57:45 "There is no official flag for Mars because there is no government or other authority to adopt such a flag." 21:57:47 — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mars 21:58:34 GregorR-L: didn't you say Mars doesn't have an atmosphere or something? 21:59:06 Mars has the potential capacity to host human and other organic life because it has an atmosphere 21:59:07 Mars has an atmosphere. While very thin (about 0.7% of Earth's atmosphere), it provides some protection from solar and cosmic radiation and has been used successfully for aerobraking of spacecraft. 21:59:26 yup 22:00:07 110bpm :-S 22:00:12 156bpm :-! 22:02:07 * SimonRC contemplates sleeping at work just to get to hear the words 22:02:10 anyone wanna return to earth? 22:02:11 SimonRC? 22:02:12 nah, not worth it 22:02:21 I'll listen tomorrow 22:02:25 so worth it! it's totally not, but anything's worth it if it's silly. 22:02:29 anything's worth anything if it's sill. 22:02:31 silly. 22:02:36 eh, I'll return to earth 22:02:47 wow 22:02:48 and it jets up 22:03:06 SimonRC: ahahaha it's back in space 22:03:10 guys are smiling 22:03:11 so I see 22:03:20 okay this is boring i'm going back to the moon 22:03:24 SimonRC: so I see? 22:03:30 did you click it as well or did i make it happen for everyone :-D 22:03:34 I pressed the button a few minutes after you 22:03:41 ah 22:03:56 * ehird refreshes to get back 22:04:01 -!- augur has joined. 22:04:09 nope, you broke the entire internet 22:04:33 "Only the cloud tops of Venus are closer in terms of habitability to Earth than Mars is." 22:04:36 don't fall off! 22:04:41 ehird: I read that /topic someewhere recently, but I can't remember where 22:04:57 SimonRC: Lewis Carroll, What The Tortoise Said To Achilles 22:05:28 ehird: Of course, air is bouyant in the Venus atmosphere 22:05:29 ah, yes 22:05:43 pikhq: so you've said 22:05:51 -!- GregorR-L has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:06:04 pikhq: does that mean if you were in venus's air, you'd float to the top naturally? :D 22:06:29 "Mars has no global geomagnetic field comparable to Earth's." 22:06:29 huh 22:06:53 ehird: Sure. 22:06:54 all cooled down 22:07:04 SimonRC: all cooled down what 22:07:08 oh the space guyzzzzzz 22:07:09 You'd need lead bricks in your shoes to go to the surface. 22:07:10 mars's core 22:07:50 SimonRC: oh :P 22:07:53 The one-way communication delay due to the speed of light ranges from about 3 minutes at closest approach (approximated by perihelion of Mars minus aphelion of Earth) to 22 minutes at the largest possible superior conjunction (approximated by aphelion of Mars plus aphelion of Earth). Telephone conversations or Internet Relay Chat between Earth and Mars would be highly impractical due to the long time lags involved. NASA has found that direct communicatio 22:07:56 n can be blocked for about two weeks every synodic period, around the time of superior conjunction when the Sun is directly between Mars and Earth.[12] A satellite at either of the Earth-Sun L4/L5 Lagrange points could serve as a relay during this period to solve the problem, or even a constellation of communications satellites, which would be a minor expense in the context of a full-blown Mars colonization program. 22:08:03 so less than 30 minutes at all times, apart from when it's infinity 22:08:16 a true shame about the speed of light 22:08:20 it's not that fast after alll 22:08:23 *all 22:08:37 "As with early colonies in the New World, economics would be a crucial aspect to a colony's success. The reduced gravity well of Mars and its position in the solar system may facilitate Mars-Earth trade and provide the rationalization for continued settlement of the planet." 22:08:41 rationalization? seriously? 22:08:43 ughhh 22:08:50 I am strongly of the opinion that I want the physics of the Ender-verse. 22:08:59 Ansible? FUCK YEAH. 22:09:15 Lorentz symmetry, FUCK NO! 22:09:18 pikhq: i'm kinda in favour of the whole "doesn't totally fuck up physics" thing 22:09:21 what SimonRC said 22:09:22 Philotes! 22:09:40 google, unsurprisingly, can has a logo 22:10:18 "A philote is the basic building block of matter, the true indivisible particle that is not made up of smaller ones. Philotes take up no space and are essential to the theory of philotic energy. Each atom has a philote of its own, each molecule likewise, and ultimately each human has an aiùa, an intelligent philote. It is suggested that perhaps a single philote, which could be referred to as God, contains the essence of humanity, and/or all sentient spe 22:10:21 cies in the known universe." 22:10:24 funny how that fits in with Card's theology. 22:10:35 i guess gay people don't have ai`uas, though 22:12:01 heh card's also a republican who claims to be a democrat 22:12:05 [[ Card is a vocal supporter of many aspects of George W. Bush's leadership style, the war on terror, aspects of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and aspects of the USA PATRIOT Act. 22:12:06 On November 6, 2006, just one day before a major election in the United States, Card wrote an opinion piece for RealClearPolitics, in which he encourages voters to support the Republicans: 22:12:09 “There is only one issue in this election that will matter five or ten years from now, and that's the War on Terror... I say this as a Democrat, for whom the Republican domination of government threatens many values that I hold to be important to America's role as a light among nations. But there are no values that matter to me that will not be gravely endangered if we lose this war.]] 22:12:20 "I'm a democrat, guys. Apart from being a republican in every way possible." 22:12:48 ehird: Actually, philotes are a bit inconsistent with his theology. 22:12:53 Ooh, he's also anti-we-did-global-warming, anti-we-should-do-something-about-global-warming and anti-evolution. 22:12:57 pikhq: Oh? 22:13:12 ehird: He's a republican in democrat's clothing in republican's clothing? :P 22:13:18 GregorR: Obviously! 22:13:19 Mormons think that God was just this guy, you know, who became diety of this planet, and that their afterlife consists of being God of a different planet. 22:13:34 pikhq: I thought they were more orthodox Christian than that. 22:13:41 No. 22:13:53 They are pretty strongly unorthodox. 22:14:02 Believers will live in the Celestial Kingdom, a place wonderful beyond all description, and receive the direct sight and love of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who will also live there. Unlike the nonbelievers, you will be united with your family; if you had a Mormon marriage you'll get the fanciest part of the Celestial Kingdom and live like God Himself. Children who die before the age of 8 come here automatically. 22:14:16 Virtuous nonbelievers will enjoy the Terrestrial Kingdom, which is totally amazing. Jesus and the Holy Spirit will come to visit sometimes. If you aren't that virtuous you will go to Hell for a while, but eventually Jesus will rescue you and take you to the Telestial Kingdom, which isn't as great but still so wonderful you would off yourself if you knew how good it was. Jesus won't be there but the Spirit will. 22:14:19 Although Hitler was baptized by the Mormons and thus released from "spirit prison," he will be judged by God at the Apocalypse and most likely sent to outer darkness with Cain and Satan. 22:14:22 pikhq: doesn't sound like being god of a planet to me. 22:14:27 (getting humans to do space colonisation now is looks to me rather like getting prehistoric man to build the Trans-Siberian railway with stone axes and shoulder-blade shovels while he is migrating across the asian continent for the first time.) 22:14:31 * SimonRC goes to bed 22:14:33 ehird: Where you getting this? 22:14:40 pikhq: http://shii.org/afterlife 22:14:48 Mmm. 22:14:53 Which, being accurate for all the other belief systems, I am not particularly inclined to doubt. 22:15:00 (I would doubt it if he was a Mormon himself, but he isn't.) 22:15:27 That's pretty close, but "live like God Himself" include being a deity of a world. ;) 22:15:33 Kay. 22:15:51 (I guess I generalised a little bit for sake of demonstration) 22:16:06 I take issue with that page, incidentally, because it ranks consciousness-snuffed-outness as a positive outcome, which fucks up the ordering in my opinion. 22:16:19 The Mormon treatment of everyone is the nicest. 22:16:40 (It's understandable, though, because the author is a Buddhist so he's kinda working towards that whole permanent death thing.) 22:16:56 (Whereas we the irreligious think he could do that perfectly fine by just sitting around for a while. :-) ) 22:17:23 Bad description of Greek afterlife; Hades is not entirely hell. 22:17:35 "The rest of us poor bastards go to Hades and just sit there gloomily." 22:17:38 He doesn't imply it's hell. 22:17:42 "Hitler also goes to Hades, but he gets punished. Forever." 22:17:47 Ah. 22:17:48 Yes. 22:18:33 "Unbelievers will fall off a bridge and into Hell, where they will be tortured forever. Apparently there will be some sort of judgement involved, but it doesn't matter because in the end the believers will go to Heaven and the unbelievers to Hell." 22:18:35 Nutrimatic religion. 22:19:39 Hah. 22:25:51 Man, reading about the Apollo flight computer... 22:26:04 It was the first computer to use integrated circuits. 22:26:07 how many kb did it have 22:26:13 1? 7? 8534895345? 22:26:16 0.01? 22:26:38 2 kibiwords; 16-bit word, so 2 kibibytes. 22:26:42 Erm. 4. 22:27:04 I can't imagine that taking us to the moon. 22:27:09 And the integrated circuits? It used 4,100 ICs. 22:27:09 Each one contained a single gate. 22:27:18 A single nor gate. 22:27:26 Surely impossible... 22:29:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:30:01 huh 22:30:11 google holiday logo on results page, but not main page 22:30:12 Also, magnetic core memory. 22:30:14 how strange 22:30:22 and clicking on it just takes you to main page 22:30:40 also... only in konq? 22:31:23 Oh, wait. It was not a Von Neuman architecture. 22:31:46 2 kibiwords of program storage in rope memory, and 24 kibiwords of RAM. 22:32:26 oh it's http://img0.gmodules.com/logos/moonlanding09_res.gif 22:32:51 And there's an assembly instruction on it, "EDRUPT" that is used once in the guidance software that nobody knows what it does. 22:33:14 All that's known is that it was implemented as asked for by Ed, and that it's an interrupt of some sort. 22:36:07 lol 22:36:16 lol 22:36:26 has anyone tried patching it out 22:37:28 -!- augur has joined. 22:38:45 The Shuttle's computers are much easier to deal with... 22:38:51 Just a very old IBM mainframe. 22:40:34 [[Years later, it was publically revealed that Nixon had prepared a speech to be given if the mission resulted in death. The lunar module had not been tested to assess if it could launch from the moon surface.]] 22:40:35 How stupid. 22:41:23 pikhq, Is "EDRUPT" in the space shuttle? Did I really understand that right? 22:41:26 Why not ask Ed then 22:42:13 No, in the Apollo 11 systems. 22:42:19 And Ed may well be dead, or has forgotten. 22:42:20 It's been 40 years. 22:46:03 ehird 22:46:12 is there an esolang that uses orbital mechanics? :o 22:46:18 Don't know. 22:46:22 there should be 22:46:27 it should be something like 22:46:54 pikhq: are you listening to the broadcast? 22:46:58 it sounded like the control center there for a second 22:47:03 a control satellite orbits command objects 22:47:24 ehird, ah 22:47:31 and has to move from one orbit to another in order to engage in control flow 22:47:45 pikhq, what broadcast? 22:47:53 err 22:47:54 ehird, ^ 22:47:56 http://wechoosethemoon.org/; bring a Flash player. 22:48:03 The moon landing, in real time, time-delayed 40 years. 22:48:06 hah 22:48:14 All the communications. 22:48:19 and the only way it can do this is by the command objects gravity attracting the control satellite via normal orbital dynamics 22:48:30 AnMaster: why "hah"? 22:48:31 It's great. 22:49:30 augur, wouldn't that be uncomputable? Somewhat like "gravity" is? 22:49:54 no, noone said it would require perfect solutions to the coupled differential equations 22:50:10 ehird: No, I'm working and chatting on IRC from time to time. 22:50:18 rather, you'd just use numerical methods to simulate n-body orbital mechanics and to hell with the error 22:50:22 Working is for ... triangles. 22:50:24 You're a triangle, pikhq. 22:50:26 A triangle. 22:50:30 s/ / / 22:51:27 alternatively, you could have a "control" thing that fires little objects out at whatever interval you want, and they have to impact the appropriate command object 22:52:32 while all of these things engage in free orbiting (the control drone could orbit far enough out to take a circular orbit, tho, so we can treat that as being fixed in space) 22:54:38 the task of the programmer would be to discover some combination of command drone firing, coupled with initial orbital conditions, to make it so that the right orbiter is impacted at the right time 22:55:09 this is probably impossible to achieve for all but the most trivial of problems. 22:57:48 augur, sounds like it wouldn't be TC anyway... unless you have control flow somehow 22:57:53 That is pretty clearly a domain-specific language. 22:58:18 And a pretty crazy one at that. 22:58:43 true 23:06:54 well it was just an initial idea 23:07:18 since itd be fucking impossible to program 23:20:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:21:27 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:22:56 -!- GregorR has joined. 23:23:53 -!- GregorR has quit (Client Quit). 23:39:20 `WA test 23:39:21 No output. 23:39:25 `wolfram test 23:39:31 ah yes that was it probably 23:39:38 `wolfram 2 + 2 23:39:44 test \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ test English word \ Definitions: \ \ communication covering experiment mental measurement run trial \ \ a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge a hard outer covering as of some amoebas and sea urchins trying something to find out about it any standardized procedure 23:39:45 2 \ \ 2 \ \ Input: \ \ 2 \ \ 2 \ \ Result: \ \ 4 \ Number name: \ \ four \ Visual representation: \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on July 20, 2009 from Champaign, IL. © Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company \ \ 1 \ \ 23:39:50 `wolfram lengths of months 23:39:57 lengths of months \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ length unit \ \ month \ \ Result: \ \ 1 length unit mo length unit month \ Unit conversions: 6 \ \ 6.408 10 m s meter seconds \ \ Interpretation: \ \ no standard named quantities \ Basic unit dimensions: \ \ length time \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) 23:40:08 huh? 23:40:18 `wolfram days of months 23:40:24 days of months \ \ Input interpretation: \ \ day \ \ month \ \ Unit conversions: \ \ 1 day : 30.42 days \ Comparisons: \ \ 1 day is 0.03288 times smaller than 1 mo \ Ratios: \ \ 1 : 30.42 \ Total: \ \ 31.42 days \ Fractions of total: \ \ 0.03183 \ \ 0.9682 \ \ Generated by Wolfram|Alpha (www.wolframalpha.com) on July 23:40:35 `wolfram days of each month 23:40:41 $Failed \ \ 23:40:53 I want it to calculate how long an average month is :/ 23:41:13 natural language input can go fuck itself 23:42:45 365.24/12 should be pretty close? 23:43:18 365.2425/12 23:44:05 Hm, that isn't too hard to remember.. Got to update my reference number for average days/year... 23:44:51 -!- GregorR has joined. 23:44:52 "The average month in the Gregorian calendar has a length of 30.4167" - Says wiki 23:45:04 > 365.2425/12 23:45:05 30.436875 23:45:08 30.4167 what? 23:45:17 Planck times? 23:45:19 Oh, that was only during non-leap years 23:45:27 Nope, days per average month 23:45:31 > 365/12 23:45:32 30.416666666666668 23:47:09 says wikipedia? 23:47:10 :P 23:47:42 365.0004/12 = 30.4167 23:47:47 weird 23:47:56 oh, rounded 23:47:57 right 23:48:16 * nescience catches up to where you were already at! 23:48:25 literal minded people are literal minded 23:49:50 it's not so much 'literal minded' as it is 'annoyed at people shortening the name of a website to a noun that already has a different meaning' 23:50:20 FireFly: plz never use Wiki as a noun unless you mean WikiWikiWeb 23:50:21 kthx 23:52:02 Never use Wiki as a *proper* noun unless you mean the WikiWikiWeb. Kthx. 23:52:21 pikhq: [Full-disclosure] anti-sec: OpenSSH <= 5.2 zero day exploit code -48 hours until it is publicly released! 23:52:28 Anti-sec. 23:52:32 OpenSSH exploit. 23:52:34 The wiki is a small wingless spanish bird, known for hanging upside down in trees by its powerful claws. 23:52:39 And, paradoxically, full disclosure. 23:52:41 F U C K 23:53:07 Fuck. 23:53:19 OPENSSH ZERO DAY FUCK fUCK FUCK 23:53:57 I'm glad that my place of employment has iptables rules to limit who can SSH in. 23:54:05 Wait. 23:54:08 pikhq: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/20/anti_sec_spoof/ 23:54:11 Spoof. 23:54:16 ...at least if you trust El Reg 23:54:20 Tre bone. 23:54:22 Trusting El Reg is rarely the correct decision. 23:54:31 Hah. 23:54:53 "AntiSec would never fully disclose. They would only sell the exploit to those whom they consider the last moral agents in a completely destitute society: spammers, internet griefers, and of course Romanian credit card thieves." 23:54:55 —reddit 23:55:10 Quoted for truth, I assume. 23:55:17 Yuh. :) 23:55:20 what's an internet griefer? 23:55:33 oerjan: Script kiddies with more knowledge, I assume. 23:55:58 griefer = troll.