00:05:51 <GregorR> Does anybody actually pronounce "towards" as two syllables?
00:05:57 <GregorR> I vote for spelling reform: tords
00:07:00 <GregorR> Well only if you needed two syllables there :P
00:21:48 <ehird> GregorR: I also don't omit consonants.
00:22:11 <GregorR> No, you only omit 'r's. OH WAIT
00:22:15 <augur_> gregor: tords as well.
00:23:06 <augur_> /tOr\dz/ pride what what
00:23:19 * GregorR puts on is tords pride pin
00:23:38 <GregorR> pikhq: Yeah, but I'm not sure who to blame for you :P
00:23:38 <ehird> Actually, I speak quite impeccably, when I think about it.
00:23:52 <pikhq> GregorR: Nor am I.
00:23:54 <GregorR> ehird: ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
00:23:54 <augur_> ehird: thats because you're a tord.
00:24:02 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
00:24:04 <pikhq> I've moved about every other year.
00:24:15 <ehird> GregorR: Is there some sort of thing about Britons and Rs?
00:24:25 <pikhq> ehird: Non-rhotic accents.
00:24:27 <GregorR> Yes, that's me making an American schwer sound :P
00:24:47 <augur> a lot of british accents, including RP, are non-rhotic
00:25:01 <augur> however gregor, thats not so much omitting r's as it is having no rhotic vowels
00:25:07 <augur> in phonetics, atleast
00:25:13 <augur> which i guess amounts to omitting r's
00:25:23 <pikhq> And a lot of American accents are rhotic -- because when they forked from Britain, most British accents were rhotic.
00:25:23 <augur> but then theres a good question of whether the r's are there in the first place
00:25:25 <GregorR> But since 'r' is usually considered a consonant (we don't have a schwer letter), it was easy :P
00:26:00 <augur> ehirds "towards" is probably [t+h@wO:dz]
00:26:04 <GregorR> I would like to take this opportunity to say "Tony Bleh"
00:26:15 <augur> no no gregorr what i mean is
00:26:31 <augur> theres a difference between [@r\] and [@`]
00:26:34 <ehird> GregorR: augur: It's not pronounced "Bleh", even by Britons, and here is proof that I pronounce Rs: http://filebin.ca/yommfq/arrrr.ogg
00:26:51 <ehird> GregorR: shaddup you
00:27:00 <ehird> (sounds crap = bad intonation; i was just getting the point across)
00:27:03 <augur> ehird, its probably not "bleh"
00:27:09 <augur> but it DOES lack an r/
00:27:16 <ehird> Yeah, it's more like "Blaih".
00:27:24 <augur> its probably more [ble@]
00:27:28 <ehird> Anyway, arrrr.ogg shuts up all you non-rhoters.
00:27:32 <pikhq> ehird: So, what you're saying is that it's about as bad as the Python's mock American accents?
00:27:42 <augur> anyway, i'm rhotic, so.
00:27:48 <GregorR> I LURVE when the Pythons mock American accents.
00:27:52 <ehird> augur: is arrrr.ogg really lacking in /r/s?
00:27:53 <GregorR> That = hilarious fun times for all?
00:27:57 <augur> ehird, didnt listen
00:27:59 <augur> give me a bit and i will
00:28:04 <oklopol> what does ehird say in that thing
00:28:11 <ehird> "Britons omit Rs? Really?"
00:28:24 <augur> i have to go make my blackboard.
00:28:25 <oklopol> "britons are mi tords? really?"
00:29:08 <AnMaster> <GregorR> Does anybody actually pronounce "towards" as two syllables? <-- yes?
00:29:12 <pikhq> Well, at least it's better than what I shall call (for lack of a better term) hyper-rhotic accents.
00:29:20 <GregorR> AnMaster: Argh we've already established that I'm wrong here :P
00:29:56 <pikhq> Southern accents are stunning in both the length and the amount of their r's.
00:30:55 <ehird> oklopol: also it's more "britons are mit arse, really?"
00:31:15 <AnMaster> about "r"... Isn't that RP to drop the r in some place?
00:31:17 <GregorR> I remember while I was in Italy a very-international group including myself were talking, and we determined that Americans and Australians should have loud public conversations so that everybody else can say "well at least my accent isn't THAT offensive"
00:31:27 <ehird> RP is kind of crap.
00:31:44 <ehird> augur can probably write in formal lingustic language what my accent is :-P
00:31:49 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe, that is what they *try* to teach us learning English as a second language though
00:32:13 <ehird> it's fine on like the BBC and stuff
00:32:14 <augur> ehird: going by your speech, yes. [br\It@nz omIt a`:z r\iIli]
00:32:20 <ehird> but i'm not in to that whole upper-class bullshit :P
00:32:27 <ehird> augur: so is that rhotic or not
00:32:32 <GregorR> AnMaster: I have two friends from Sweden (in particular); one omits 'r's and the other doesn't. The one who doesn't could probably be convincingly American if he changed up his emphasis a bit.
00:32:59 <augur> its either a`:z or a_v:z
00:33:03 <oklopol> ehird: oklopol: also it's more "britons are mit arse, really?" <<< yes, i guess i just wanted the tords there.
00:33:20 <augur> its british rhotic.
00:33:27 <GregorR> So why is that? British taught in schools, but all the imported TV programs are American?
00:33:30 <ehird> augur: Which is uncommon or something? :P
00:34:19 <augur> it just doesnt have a coda r, it has rhotic vowels. which is what you'd expect in a rhotic british dialect
00:34:20 <GregorR> Conclusions: Tobias learned English from books, Johan learned English from TV ;)
00:34:22 <augur> just like rhotic american dialects
00:34:33 <augur> the real question is whether or not there is an r underlyingly or not
00:34:50 <ehird> augur: So what is my accent, anyway? It's probably not southern, but it's far... blander than most northern ones, too.
00:34:56 <augur> also, ehird, you're so adorable.
00:35:00 <ehird> I assume you can tell from one sample.
00:35:00 * augur puts ehird on a keychain
00:35:10 <augur> no, i dont know what your dialect is. im not a dialectologist.
00:35:11 <AnMaster> GregorR, How the hell do you pronounce those names in English? I'd love to hear how you mess them up
00:35:17 <augur> im a syntactician/semanticist
00:35:25 <AnMaster> you won't mess them up as much as my name
00:35:30 <augur> speaking of british r's
00:35:34 <ehird> augur: well fuck you, become a dialectologist :P
00:35:41 <pikhq> AnMaster: Toe-bee-as, and Joe-han. :P
00:35:48 <augur> the welsh accent has so many r's :o
00:35:55 <pikhq> (I'm too lazy for the IPA)
00:36:03 <AnMaster> pikhq, *snicker* *HAHA* *LOL* *ROFL*
00:36:24 <pikhq> AnMaster: America: mispronouncing names for 300 years.
00:36:29 <AnMaster> pikhq, where did you get the "e" in "Joe-han" from?
00:36:29 <ehird> AnMaster: Like this: http://filebin.ca/xkaxpj/tobiasandjohansittinginatrees-w-e-d-i-s-hing.ogg
00:36:47 <ehird> AnMaster: I think it's fairly correct.
00:36:51 <oklopol> tobias shouldn't be *that* different
00:36:51 <pikhq> AnMaster: ... I'm saying it's pronounced like "Joe", the name.
00:37:06 <ehird> I over-pronounced Tobias a bit, though.
00:37:10 <oklopol> it doesn't even start with the same character
00:37:13 <augur> firefly: shouldnt you be smuggling cows?
00:37:14 <GregorR> AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/vyowo/TobiasJohan.ogg
00:37:52 <augur> FireFly: you're a culturally inept fool. :|
00:37:58 <AnMaster> GregorR, Joe-han is quite funny IMO
00:38:07 <ehird> AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/xkaxpj/tobiasandjohansittinginatrees-w-e-d-i-s-hing.ogg
00:38:10 <AnMaster> GregorR, drop the e sound and you would be closer
00:38:20 <ehird> I said Jo- instead of Yo- though.
00:38:21 <GregorR> ... I pronounce an 'e' sound somewhere?
00:38:41 <pikhq> ... There's an actual "e" sound in "Joe"?
00:38:48 <pikhq> English spelling is a fickle bitch.
00:38:50 <augur> ehird, no theres no.
00:39:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, ehird: Please sync your recording volume, I need to mess with replay gain to hear ehird while not getting my hearing broken by GregorR!
00:39:16 <ehird> my mic is just low-volume
00:39:20 <GregorR> AnMaster: I'm trying to see where there could POSSIBLY be an 'e' sound here >_O
00:39:21 <augur> "Joe" does not have an "e" sound.
00:39:30 <ehird> augur: http://filebin.ca/ttkeqx/fuckbutt.ogg
00:39:34 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/xkaxpj/tobiasandjohansittinginatrees-w-e-d-i-s-hing.ogg <-- same as first tiem
00:39:37 <augur> no it does not, ehird.
00:39:39 <ehird> AnMaster: it's complete.
00:39:53 <oklopol> ehird: yours is even worse than GregorR's
00:39:53 <AnMaster> ehird, ends at "tobias and joeh..."?
00:40:04 <augur> ehird, record your "Joe" for uss.
00:40:06 <pikhq> I say this knowing full-well how the name is pronounced, it being *my middle name*.
00:40:12 <ehird> AnMaster: no, i just finish it quickly
00:40:18 <ehird> pikhq: augur: http://filebin.ca/ttkeqx/fuckbutt.ogg
00:40:25 <AnMaster> <pikhq> ... There's an actual "e" sound in "Joe"? <-- well How would you prounonce it without the "e"? Like "Jo"?
00:40:29 <ehird> in MY DIALECT, joe has an e
00:40:40 <augur> i listened to that
00:40:44 <augur> there is no "e" sound.
00:40:49 <GregorR> "Joe" and "Jo" are pronounced the same. "Jo" is a female name.
00:40:54 <AnMaster> pikhq, duh. I meant how would you pronounce "Jo"
00:41:02 <ehird> yeah well your mom has no e sound
00:41:16 <augur> well her name is "Michelle" so she has one.
00:41:18 <AnMaster> then I guess the quality of the o is wrong
00:41:25 <ehird> augur: i never said michelle i said "your mom"
00:41:30 <oklopol> augur: do english speakers actually have a uniform definition for the "e" sound?
00:41:36 <AnMaster> can't record atm, people sleeping in the next room
00:41:36 <augur> yes, you did say "your mom"
00:41:39 <FireFly> Well, there's a difference in the swedish and english o sound
00:41:41 <augur> but you didnt say it in quotes
00:41:53 <augur> therefore it was a use of the terms not a reference to the phrase "your mom"
00:41:54 <oklopol> GregorR: that was an actual question though :P
00:41:56 <pikhq> English phonology is *also* a fickle bitch.
00:41:57 <augur> therefore you're wrong.
00:42:04 <augur> pikhq: no, its not
00:42:04 <pikhq> And has 0 correlation with English spelling.
00:42:08 <augur> the phonology isnt tricky
00:42:14 <augur> the spelling is ... meh.
00:42:15 <GregorR> oklopol: No. Not even slightly. I don't have a clue which sound you refer to when you say 'e' sound.
00:42:18 <augur> the spelling is here and there.
00:42:25 <augur> the problem with english spelling today
00:42:28 <GregorR> oklopol: Could be 'eh', 'ee', even 'ae'
00:42:30 <augur> is that it makes PERFECT sense
00:42:34 <augur> for english 1000 yers ago.
00:42:47 <pikhq> augur: Okay, yeah... The only tricky bit with English phonology is that there's rather a lot of phonemes.
00:42:56 <oklopol> GregorR: ae as in ? well i get your point anyway
00:43:01 <augur> no more than, say, finnish
00:43:04 <GregorR> I'm fairly certain Swedish has like a trillion more sounds than English :P
00:43:06 <pikhq> And some languages have it worse. Slavic languages. *shudder*
00:43:17 <ehird> it's like the worst language evar
00:43:21 <augur> pikhq: english isnt all that bad in terms of phoneme inventory
00:43:27 <augur> if you want a crazy phoneme inventory
00:43:29 <GregorR> English rules because it has absolutely no regulating body.
00:43:39 <pikhq> ehird: Got a lot of words.
00:43:40 <augur> 15 or 20 DISTINCT uvular sounds
00:43:56 <ehird> we need dynamically linked word libraries
00:44:00 <AnMaster> <oklopol> GregorR: ae as in ä? well i get your point anyway <--- is that "mainland" Swedish ä or "finlandsvenskt" ä?
00:44:13 <ehird> it's like preferring PHP because it has like 5,000 names in the main namespace
00:44:16 <GregorR> If I Recall Correctly Eclectically
00:44:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:44:17 <AnMaster> though the difference for "o" sound is much larger
00:45:01 <oklopol> which reminds me, augur, are you still interested in teaching me phonology
00:45:11 <augur> phonetics and phonology
00:45:25 <oklopol> sure, also i'd like you to help me with my crappy american accent
00:45:45 <augur> cant help you there. i mean, i can try, but im not an accent coach.
00:45:58 <augur> also, i like your accent. :|
00:45:59 <ehird> <augur> oklopol: to pronounce the /O/ sound, you open your mouth wiiiiiiide, and then suck any dick that happens to come in
00:46:04 <pikhq> augur: Okay, the tricky bit with English is this: there is no mapping between phonemes and graphemes.
00:46:07 <augur> augur: pretty true.
00:46:15 <ehird> 00:46 augur: augur: pretty true.
00:46:22 <ehird> `addquote <augur> augur: pretty true.
00:46:23 <HackEgo> 47|<augur> augur: pretty true.
00:46:23 <augur> pikhq: theres some. its not as straightforward as finnish, say.
00:46:28 <AnMaster> CAN ANYONE BUT Swedes and Finns manage it?
00:46:43 <augur> did i respond to myself?
00:46:46 <ehird> ON IRC YOU CAN PRONOUNCE ANYTHING
00:47:01 <pikhq> And there's quite a few more phonemes than letters. Which makes it hard to make a decent spelling system without breaking out the diacritics.
00:47:02 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal-velar_fricative
00:47:04 <GregorR> WTF. I just went to download Schubert's Ave Maria, and instead I got the prayer put to his music???
00:47:23 <pikhq> That's rather stunning.
00:47:27 <AnMaster> ehird, as in: using your voice
00:47:47 <ehird> AnMaster: "how sad"?
00:48:27 <AnMaster> can you please write it in IPA or I can't understand you
00:49:32 <ehird> I refuse to learn English
00:49:38 <ehird> Can you please write it in Lojban or I can't understand you
00:49:43 <pikhq> I would like to congratulate Japanese on having a really simple phonology.
00:49:52 <GregorR> I atteikties mācīties latviešu valodā.
00:50:15 <ehird> pikhq: I would like to cancel out that congratulation of Japanese because it has a really complex everything else.
00:50:19 <augur> ipa:ɧ = ipa:ʃ͡x = sampa:Sx)
00:50:33 <AnMaster> augur, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal-velar_fricative says "X-SAMPA x\"
00:50:34 <ehird> oklopol knows lojban though. well, bits.
00:50:39 <AnMaster> not sure if that is relevant here
00:50:40 <ehird> heck, i know a bit of lojban.
00:50:44 <pikhq> ehird: No, it has really rather simple grammar as well.
00:50:50 <ehird> pikhq: apart from that :P
00:50:52 <AnMaster> augur, anyway what do you mean debated?
00:50:58 <pikhq> And its writing system is really nice except for the kanji.
00:51:04 <augur> as in many phoneticians dont think its actually real
00:51:05 <ehird> lojban is probably the easiest language to learn
00:51:16 <ehird> pikhq: kanji is a really stupid idea
00:51:17 <augur> lojban is ridiculous to learn :D
00:51:18 <AnMaster> augur, I can easily pronounce the relevant sound. I don't know what you suggest it is instead
00:51:20 <ehird> "let's just have one letter... for EVERYTHING"
00:51:20 <pikhq> And its vocabulary is not hard, aside from the honorifics.
00:51:28 <ehird> i learned the basics and some vocab in a few days
00:51:37 <augur> anmaster: im sure you can, but that doesnt mean its actually a simultaneous S and x
00:51:37 <ehird> and i have been totally unable to learn any other language in my whole life
00:51:41 <pikhq> ehird: No harder than English.
00:51:48 <augur> it probably DOES exist, i think, but thats irrelevant ;)
00:51:52 <ehird> pikhq: what isn't?
00:51:55 <augur> ehird: why, because its incredibly unnatural
00:52:07 <ehird> augur: no it's not
00:52:16 <ehird> sounds like the opinion of someone who's never used it
00:52:19 <ehird> it was easy for me
00:52:25 <AnMaster> augur, but I know someone from Germany (who lived in Sweden since 1950 and is now about 70 years old) having problems with the sound.
00:52:25 <ehird> you don't see the logical underpinnings most of the time
00:52:25 <pikhq> In fact, quite a bit simpler, because the symbols at least have something to do with the meaning.
00:52:26 <augur> doesnt matter how EASY it was
00:52:31 <augur> its still unnatural.
00:52:39 <AnMaster> so clearly it is not "They have very similar acoustic properties, not dissimilar from the /ç/ sound of southern Dutch or German ch after e or i, and feature distinct labialization" the same as that
00:52:41 <ehird> augur: unnatural is such a stupid fucking way to dis something
00:52:44 <augur> anmaster: irrelevant.
00:52:44 <ehird> so's living in a house
00:52:47 <ehird> so's using a computer
00:52:53 <ehird> so's doing all the fucking stuff we do
00:52:55 <augur> ehird, its not a dis. its just a statement of fact.
00:53:00 <ehird> augur: then why is learning lojban silly
00:53:03 <ehird> and i dispute that it's unnatural
00:53:04 <oklopol> augur: i find it much more natural than finnish
00:53:07 <ehird> it's just UNFAMILIAR
00:53:09 <augur> its unnatural, and not incredibly easy to learn.
00:53:14 <AnMaster> augur, how so? Wouldn't it indicate it isn't the same sound
00:53:19 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
00:53:25 <oklopol> natural languages are simply crap
00:53:25 <augur> ehird, you can dispute that its unnatural. you're still wrong.
00:53:25 <ehird> augur — pioneer of argument by because-I-said-so
00:53:34 <ehird> also arbiter of all that is natural
00:53:45 <augur> no, pioneer of "i'm actually familiar with the typological distribution of syntactic properties and you're not"
00:53:55 <pikhq> He's a linguiſt. I'd þink þat he'd know þeſe ſorts of þings.
00:54:02 <GregorR> Humans are a part of nature. Everything we produce is therefore by definition natural. In fact, there is nothing unnatural in existence, by definition. Period.
00:54:11 <ehird> because we all know that when learning and using languages, we think subconsciously about the typological distribution of syntactic properties
00:54:13 <oklopol> pikhq: think and that have different sounds
00:54:18 <ehird> and this is what makes languages natural or not
00:54:22 <pikhq> GregorR: Ah, all-natural cyanide. :)
00:54:33 <GregorR> Well cyanide is CERTAINLY natural.
00:54:35 <pikhq> oklopol: And in English, þ = th.
00:54:37 <augur> ehird: no, but those typological distributions come about because of inherent cognitive biases
00:54:46 <GregorR> Cyanide is natural by any definition.
00:54:47 <augur> biases that you cant get around.
00:54:56 <augur> cyanide is produced in apple seeds :o
00:54:59 <pikhq> That in Old English and other Germanic languages, þ and ð are different doesn't change that in English, we just use þ.
00:55:00 <ehird> augur: strange, then, that tons of people who have used lojban didn't feel anything was odd about it at all
00:55:04 <augur> oddly, it smells like almond, not apple.
00:55:04 <pikhq> (when it's still used. :))
00:55:06 <ehird> and didn't seem to have some huge mental blockage
00:55:06 <oklopol> pikhq: sorry, i just see random crap, though they were phonemes of some sort :)
00:55:13 <AnMaster> <pikhq> oklopol: And in English, th = th. <-- uh yeah?
00:55:15 <ehird> augur: strange, then, that there are people who can think fluently in lojban
00:55:28 <ehird> oh wait, the typological distributions! clearly we all secretly hate lojban and it's so unnatural
00:55:30 <augur> ehird: theres a difference between being able to use it, and being able to use it naturally.
00:55:34 <augur> theres a huge difference.
00:55:41 <pikhq> AnMaſter: Your ſcript is dumb, BTW.
00:55:49 <ehird> augur: there are multiple people who are fluent in lojban. there are people who can think in lojban without translation (1 or 2, I think)
00:55:55 <oklopol> pikhq: err, so are you saying think and that have the same sound, or that your character just meant the same as the english th, that is, both?
00:55:58 <augur> you can be fluent in lojban
00:56:06 <ehird> augur: you're ignoring my second clause
00:56:09 <augur> fluency is not the same as speaking it natively.
00:56:14 <pikhq> oklopol: I'm saying that the two different phonemes are written with the same character.
00:56:19 <ehird> any language you can think in without translation does not have a mental blockage
00:56:28 <pikhq> oklopol: It's the letter thorn, BTW.
00:56:33 <oklopol> pikhq: right, i can't really keep up with this much talk :P
00:56:33 <pikhq> oklopol: Also, get you some UTF-8.
00:56:33 <augur> didnt say it would, ehird
00:56:35 <ehird> a mental blockage that has no effects and is completely unobservable is an invisible pink unicorn
00:56:40 <pikhq> It comes up in this channel a *lot*.
00:56:42 <augur> but you dont understand what i mean
00:56:50 <oklopol> pikhq: it should be on, but i can't get mirc to obey me.
00:57:00 <augur> ehird, just to satisfy you tho
00:57:04 <pikhq> oklopol: And there's your first failure.
00:57:06 <ehird> augur: you haven't defined what's natural and why apart from using theoretics; you haven't provided any reason for why this mental blockage has never shown up
00:57:07 <augur> ill take a look at lojban grammar
00:57:17 <ehird> i see no reason to consider what you say reasonable
00:57:23 <augur> i didnt say anything about mental blockage
00:57:33 <ehird> you said it was unnatural and went against built-in cognitive biases
00:57:36 <pikhq> augur: Should be fun. Human language with regular grammar? :D
00:57:45 <augur> thats not the same as a "mental blockage"
00:57:46 <ehird> maybe we have wildly differing definitions of cognitive biases; yours involves them doing nothing at all
00:57:51 <oklopol> pikhq: mirc? it's my only failure, you silly goof
00:57:51 <augur> pikhq: i doubt that lojban is regular.
00:58:03 <ehird> it has a yacc parser
00:58:04 <pikhq> augur: Erm. Context-free.
00:58:06 <AnMaster> augur, it can be parsed with yacc
00:58:14 <ehird> <AnMaster> :slowpoke:
00:58:16 <pikhq> Its official grammar is written in BNF.
00:58:25 <pikhq> AnMaster: That makes it context-free, not regular.
00:58:27 <augur> anmaster: uh. yacc isnt a regular language parser tho is it
00:58:30 <ehird> 00:58 ehird: it has a yacc parser […] 00:58 AnMaster: augur, it can be parsed with yacc
00:58:36 <ehird> augur: it's a programming language parser
00:58:37 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh indeed. Too tired...
00:58:49 <GregorR> Btw, re:cyanide and almonds: The common myth (or actually true statement that's so wildly misunderstood that it may as well be a myth) is that cyanide tastes like bitter almonds. The truth is that A) bitter almonds are a separate but related nut to almonds and B) bitter almonds taste like cyanide because THEY'RE FULL OF F***ING CYANIDE
00:58:50 <augur> whats that got to do with anything
00:59:12 <ehird> AnMaster: multiple seconds
00:59:12 <oklopol> ehird: you do know regular grammars are a very specific concept?
00:59:16 <pikhq> ehird: Yacc does context-free grammars (and a few non-context-free grammars with some fiddling), not regular. ;)
00:59:21 <augur> i would wager that lojban is not context free
00:59:25 <AnMaster> ehird, your timestamps includes no seconds...
00:59:53 <AnMaster> ehird, so it is clearly another exaggeration, since you love them so
01:00:25 <ehird> two-three seconds for me
01:00:27 <augur> are you fluent in lojban
01:00:28 <ehird> anyway it was a joke
01:00:38 <ehird> augur: no. i want to be and it is a goal of mine
01:00:43 <ehird> AnMaster: my client doesn't record it so tough shit
01:00:53 <AnMaster> ehird, you fail indeed. Tough shit
01:00:54 <augur> well, i would bet that there are non-CF aspects of lojban
01:01:04 <ehird> <AnMaster> WAAH STOP MAKING JOKES I'M SO INSECURE
01:01:08 <oklopol> augur: why would it be ridiculous to learn a language that is not natural?
01:01:13 <ehird> augur: it has a yacc parser, and yacc does context-free grammar
01:01:23 <AnMaster> ehird, how was that funny to begin with
01:01:27 <ehird> augur: anyway, when learning simple lojban it was as smooth as butter and never felt unnatural. coming from someone who's never been able to learn languages
01:01:28 <oklopol> also, augur, there are variables, maybe using undefined variables is wrong and non-cf.
01:01:35 <ehird> <AnMaster> Stop it stop it stop it I must reassert myself
01:01:42 <AnMaster> ehird, what does "slowpoke" even mean?
01:01:51 <augur> oklopol: its not impossible, its just that natural biases tend to push us to analyze things in a particular way and certain specific aspects are INCREDIBLY difficult to get around
01:01:52 <AnMaster> which was my original question implied by "?"
01:01:52 <ehird> :slowpoke: = http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slowpoke.gif
01:02:07 <AnMaster> oklopol, and what does *that* mean
01:02:11 <ehird> http://www.answers.com/slowpoke
01:02:22 <augur> ehird: simple lojban is not likely to be unnatural ;)
01:02:32 <ehird> augur: but there isn't any complex lojban!
01:02:39 <ehird> it's just simple, slightly less simple, and you go on to learning the vocab
01:02:44 <augur> then its not a fully expressing language!
01:02:46 <oklopol> well right, not really directly related to stupidity
01:02:55 <ehird> you just piece shit together
01:02:58 <oklopol> i just assumed it was an insult
01:03:01 <ehird> the words are all quite short, so
01:03:05 <augur> thats irrelevant ehird
01:03:07 <AnMaster> ehird, "One that moves, works, or acts slowly." <-- as in "considers his moves, doesn't act rashly"?
01:03:08 <augur> im talking about syntax.
01:03:28 <augur> ehird, how does lojban constraint unbounded dependencies
01:03:38 <oklopol> augur: i'd need to know what you mean by natural biases
01:03:40 <ehird> <AnMaster> Fuck. Fuck he called me a slowpoke. I must reassert myself. So insecure. Ahem. Okay. Let's respin this, uhh, let's look it up.
01:03:41 <AnMaster> ehird, both ways to interpret it seems possible
01:03:43 <ehird> augur: wtf does that mean
01:03:44 <pikhq> Just a sec while I hand you the formal grammar.
01:03:46 <ehird> AnMaster: neither.
01:03:49 <ehird> it means slowpoke.
01:03:59 <ehird> augur: btw, you know that #lojban is, for a large part, conversed in lojban?
01:04:03 <augur> ehird: it means non-local argument filling.
01:04:06 <AnMaster> ehird, hah. Recursive definitions sucks. :/
01:04:07 <ehird> without any difficulty
01:04:08 <pikhq> augur: http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.html Yacc and Backus-Naur form.
01:04:11 <augur> ehird, none of that matters
01:04:17 <ehird> augur: you mean like skipping an argument to a predicate sort of thing?
01:04:20 <ehird> yeah lojban has that.
01:04:33 <augur> ehird: im not sure if thats quite what i mean. i'd have to see what _you_ mean
01:04:38 <AnMaster> ehird, also what are those impersonations things on about?...
01:04:49 <augur> but i mean things like question words, or topicalization, or parasitic gapping
01:04:49 <AnMaster> they aren't even close to what I think
01:04:50 <ehird> AnMaster: i'm making fun of you.
01:05:09 <AnMaster> ehird, oh is it that. I thought you were just being silly...
01:05:10 <oklopol> augur: i don't think it constraints them
01:05:13 <ehird> augur: drives(Guy, OtherGuy <SKIP> ToPlace). vs drives(Guy, OtherGuy, AwesomeCar, ToPlace).
01:05:22 <ehird> augur: "non-local argument filling"
01:05:24 <augur> no not that at all.
01:05:26 <ehird> you can skip about the argument list to the predicates
01:05:29 <AnMaster> ehird, please wake me up when you arrive at the "fun" bit of it.
01:05:37 <oklopol> well, probably don't understand the question
01:05:42 <ehird> AnMaster: ooh you're going? awesome!
01:05:43 <pikhq> augur: Read the formal grammar instead of asking ehird. ;)
01:05:53 <ehird> the yacc is autogenerated
01:05:57 <ehird> and has names like RRR_49df_d
01:06:01 <pikhq> ehird: There's also BNF.
01:06:09 <ehird> augur's asking about semantics
01:06:13 <ehird> the bnf just parses the syntactical tree
01:06:18 <augur> shut up for a second.
01:06:19 <AnMaster> ehird, nah, but the risk of falling asleep when talking to you isn't insignificant in the best of situations...
01:06:21 <ehird> most of the predicate/argument/etc is part of the semantics, au
01:06:25 <ehird> instead of the syntax
01:06:27 <pikhq> He's asking about syntax.
01:06:48 <ehird> i don't know linguistic terms, okay?
01:06:50 <ehird> don't expect me to read minds
01:07:11 <oklopol> text is a very unnatural media for interactive conversations when you're tired says i.
01:07:27 <augur> in english you have things like parasitic gaps like so:
01:07:39 <GregorR> oklopol: A never-ending flood of linguistics is bad regardless of all else :P
01:07:41 <ehird> oklopol: do you know any curses in lojban?
01:07:47 <augur> "This is the article_i that Mary filed t_i without reading t_i"
01:07:59 <oklopol> ehird: that's one of lojban's weak spots imo
01:08:07 <augur> where t_i is a marker that denotes a lack of a symbol
01:08:11 <oklopol> you usually use mabla, and attach it to other stuff
01:08:21 <ehird> augur: i think lojban has shit like that
01:08:28 <augur> ehird, if it does, its not CF!
01:08:30 <ehird> i don't really know much lojban
01:08:35 <ehird> augur: well who cares :P
01:08:37 <augur> but ill read this grammar for now <3
01:08:44 <ehird> meanwhile, http://perpetuum-immobile.de/komo.png is still funny
01:09:01 <ehird> but only because it's so hard to translate
01:09:04 <ehird> iirc it goes something like:
01:09:16 <ehird> "tell me what you will do to me [but also a command of that doing]"
01:09:19 -!- coppro has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:09:19 <AnMaster> <GregorR> oklopol: A never-ending flood of linguistics is bad regardless of all else :P <-- "head on" I believe the idiom is
01:09:25 <ehird> i.e. do something then tell me what it is you did
01:09:34 <ehird> then some emotion thingy
01:09:38 <ehird> then he hits the other guy
01:09:41 <ehird> then he says "hit"
01:09:46 <ehird> it's not actually funny
01:09:46 <oklopol> ehird: nothing says "me" is the object
01:09:58 <ehird> but, you laugh once you've translated it
01:10:02 <ehird> because otherwise it'd be wasted effort
01:10:11 <augur> pikhq: that grammar is unreadable.
01:10:14 <ehird> the field of lojban humour is not well developed.
01:10:17 <ehird> augur: i told you so
01:10:23 <ehird> it's not for human consumption
01:10:37 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:10:39 <augur> i will look at the learn-lojban thing and try to translate it into normal linguistics.
01:10:49 <pikhq> augur: Good to know.
01:11:03 <ehird> augur: lojban is awesome regardless of how unnatural it is anyway
01:11:23 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN ON TO A CAN
01:11:37 <GregorR> Sgeo: RUN INTO A TRASH CAN
01:11:43 <Sgeo> How do I make a cheap flash drive not break when I take it out?
01:11:44 <augur> Sgeo: RUN TO THE HILLS
01:11:51 <GregorR> Sgeo: RUN 'ROUND THE MILLS
01:11:57 <oklopol> anyway, i don't really like lojban *that* much, it just feels too human-compatible imo
01:12:00 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN TO THE FILLS
01:12:05 <augur> Sgeo: RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
01:12:07 <GregorR> Sgeo: RUN 'TIL YOU GET CHILLS
01:12:07 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN AND THEN KILL
01:12:12 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN AS PER THE DRILL
01:12:17 <oklopol> i'd just like math + a few words for defining physical objects and a few mental processes
01:12:18 <pikhq> I want a language in sexps.
01:12:22 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BILL
01:12:29 <GregorR> Sgeo: RUN AND DON'T BE STILL
01:12:32 <augur> have i ever mentioned how much i hate numetal?
01:12:33 * Sgeo saw a Phoenix Wrong where there was "Run to the hills. Run for your life"
01:12:46 <augur> sgeo: a phoenix wrong?
01:12:47 <GregorR> AnMaster: STOP THIS MEME HOW?
01:12:48 <ehird> Sgeo: RUN LEST THEY MAKE YOU TAKE YOUR PILL
01:12:49 <pikhq> augur: No. But it's worth hating.
01:13:09 <ehird> oklopol: mathematics + bayesian probability + utilitarianism + a few things like does(Agent,Thing) and stuff
01:13:16 <Sgeo> augur, youtube it
01:13:17 * pikhq listens to Quadrophenia happily
01:13:48 <oklopol> ehird: you need the physical objects.
01:14:10 <ehird> oklopol: but that's all subjective
01:14:16 <ehird> you just need functions for experience
01:14:17 <oklopol> well i mean vectors mostly
01:14:21 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYPyOIaLdTU
01:14:25 <ehird> and bayes + utilitarianism handles most the rest
01:14:33 <augur> oklopol: im willing to bet that IF lojban is actually completely naturalistic
01:14:34 <Sgeo> (nsfw language and themes occasionally)
01:14:41 <augur> that its run of the mill in how its naturalistic.
01:14:43 <ehird> (note: this imposes a system of morality that nobody actually goes by it 100% on your speakers)
01:14:57 <ehird> augur: no, oklopol is just ridiculously unnatural :D
01:15:16 <oklopol> augur: it's better than natural languages in any case
01:15:27 <augur> oklopol: probably not!
01:15:48 <augur> sgeo: how does an iron maiden lyric figure in with phoenix wright?
01:15:48 <oklopol> i usually just learn natural languages' vocab, the rest is boring
01:15:59 <augur> oklopol: thats because you dont know much about the rest!
01:16:00 <GregorR> I want Yu Wan Mei Miscellaneous Flavor Paste :(
01:16:03 <ehird> augur is just a fetishist for crappy, crufty old languages
01:16:06 <augur> natural language syntax and semantics is awesome
01:16:12 <ehird> GregorR: get the Device, I'm sure it can manufacture it for you
01:16:23 <GregorR> ehird: I don't have that kind o' scratch!
01:16:25 <augur> far more complicated and interesting than computer language syntax and semantics :o
01:16:29 -!- coppro has joined.
01:16:31 <pikhq> On a side note: The Who is a great band.
01:16:35 <ehird> GregorR: the device can print money
01:16:39 <ehird> you just have to have faith
01:16:54 <ehird> i don't really like the who
01:16:55 <oklopol> augur: i'm saying they are not interesting to use; they would be interesting to learn if they were taught properly.
01:17:02 <pikhq> ehird: You have no taste.
01:17:07 <ehird> AnMaster: the Yu Wan Mei Device, of course.
01:17:13 <ehird> It has been completed and is now available for sale.
01:17:16 <augur> oklopol, the languages themselves are actually pretty meh. its the properties of Language thats awesome
01:17:16 <oklopol> but languages are rarely taught rigorously enough for my taste
01:17:17 <pikhq> And for that, you die.
01:17:25 <ehird> pikhq: i love rock, I just don't really like the who
01:17:29 <Sgeo> augur, the same that the Simpsons have to do with Phoenix Wright
01:17:32 <ehird> AnMaster: It has the following features:
01:17:39 <oklopol> augur: right now we're speaking the same language
01:17:39 <augur> i would love to see a polysynthetic programming language
01:17:56 <ehird> AnMaster: for $4,250.99 you get this stylish device: http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20090720/yuwanmei_device_large.jpg
01:18:01 <ehird> allow me to find the list of features
01:18:23 * GregorR STILL wants Miscellaneous Flavor Paste!
01:18:41 <ehird> Your Device features include:
01:18:41 <ehird> Digital counter starting at 999,999,999
01:18:42 <ehird> Patented random ticking mechanism
01:18:44 <ehird> High quality audio Chinese Anthem on infinite loop
01:18:46 <ehird> Video projector of our great and illustrious Chinese leaders
01:18:52 <ehird> Sharp edges honed from Chinese sword master
01:18:54 <ehird> Red blinking lights, randomly accompanied by loud siren noise
01:18:56 <ehird> Requires 12 AA batteries, 4 D batteries, 7 AAA batteries.
01:19:13 <AnMaster> * GregorR STILL wants Miscellaneous Flavor Paste! <-- link
01:19:18 <ehird> AnMaster: Did you know it's fish time?
01:19:32 <ehird> AnMaster: http://www.yuwanmei.com/products#8
01:19:35 <AnMaster> ehird, isn't it a bit dark for that (at least here)
01:19:54 <AnMaster> I assumed that was a typo for "fishing"
01:19:55 <GregorR> AnMaster: http://store.theonion.com/yu-wan-mei-miscellaneous-tasty-paste-p-1020.html
01:19:57 <ehird> AnMaster: No. ROBUSTNESS IS UNAVOIDABLE with Yu Wan Mei fish products.
01:20:08 <ehird> http://www.theonion.com/content/news/american_consumer_masses_agree_it
01:20:12 <ehird> The American Consumer Masses agree.
01:20:17 <ehird> Hooray for Yu Wan Mei!
01:20:44 <AnMaster> I don't think this will make more sense when I wake up
01:20:50 <AnMaster> but now I'm going to bed anyway
01:20:55 <ehird> AnMaster: No, you must read it!
01:21:01 <GregorR> AnMaster will wake up covered in Miscellaneous Tasty Paste.
01:21:07 <ehird> AnMaster: It is from the reputable newspaper the Onion, a subsidiary of Yu Wan Me corporation!
01:21:22 <coppro> like to see a polysynthetic programming language
01:21:33 <pikhq> Why are you telling me that?
01:21:37 <ehird> polygamous programming language!
01:21:47 <coppro> oh wait, that was augur
01:22:27 <augur> coppro: why not? :(
01:22:45 <coppro> I don't like polysynthetic languages to start with
01:23:00 <augur> coppro: too esoteric? :D
01:23:11 <ehird> 01:20 neptunepink: coi
01:23:13 <ehird> #lojban are very coy.
01:23:16 <coppro> augur: no, just annoying
01:23:29 <ehird> Hmm, there're my British organisation-is-a-group leanings showing up.
01:23:32 <augur> coppro: why annoying? :|
01:23:40 * Sgeo downloads Interstella 5555
01:23:48 <augur> coppro, polysynthetic languages have words!
01:24:00 <coppro> no, they have /word/ :P
01:24:14 <augur> no they have words
01:24:20 <pikhq> Sgeo: It's awesome. Ehird is incapable of music appreciation.
01:24:22 <augur> often you only need one or two
01:24:31 <ehird> pikhq: I like Daft Punk.
01:24:34 <ehird> I do not like the film.
01:24:42 <ehird> (No, I really like Daft Punk.)
01:25:27 <ehird> Well gee, clearly a few half-assed music videos pieced together is the standard on which all anime is based on.
01:25:30 <GregorR> There is absolutely no situation in which "<pikhq> s/music/anime/" makes sense :P
01:25:33 <ehird> I apologise profusely.
01:25:47 <Sgeo> tbh, the only anime I've ever watched was Death Note
01:26:09 <Sgeo> #esoteric: ...
01:26:17 <pikhq> Ehird shows massive misunderstanding.
01:26:22 <pikhq> Sgeo, that's just sad.
01:26:23 -!- ehird has set topic: ... http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
01:26:27 <ehird> pikhq: "ehird", please.
01:27:10 <pikhq> Fine, fine. Ellɨoṫṫ.
01:27:27 <ehird> Crossing is and dotting ts etc.
01:27:44 * Sgeo would capitalize pikhq similarly, but doesn't see any portions of eir real name in their
01:27:47 <ehird> There should be a jewnicode chracter for "etc.".
01:28:08 <pikhq> Sgeo: My real name is Josiah Worcester.
01:28:13 <pikhq> No real name within.
01:28:16 <ehird> Sgeo: His name is Phil Iklïx Huqiäa.
01:28:26 <GregorR> My mother's maiden name is Wertheimer ...
01:28:31 <ehird> → Phil IKlïx HuQiäa.
01:29:18 <ehird> Shush, I just wanted an excuse to make up some nice words.
01:29:24 <pikhq> My name uses every phoneme.
01:29:33 <ehird> Iklïx is pronounced "ihcleech", I think.
01:30:09 <augur> pikhq: everyone phoneme of what language
01:30:21 <ehird> Huqiäa is, I think, "huckuiuah".
01:30:26 <ehird> But the "ck" is softer.
01:30:35 <ehird> Huqiäa is, I think, "huckuiooah".
01:30:45 <pikhq> augur: ALL OF THEME.
01:30:48 <ehird> augur: amirite about both of them?
01:30:53 <pikhq> Very hard to pronounce. :P
01:31:07 <augur> did you know that phonemes are purely abstract concepts?
01:31:13 <ehird> pikhq: Worcester is easy for those who have had worcester source :P
01:31:19 <augur> and its not possible to say that two languages have the same phoneme?
01:31:21 <pikhq> ehird: Not for USians.
01:31:54 <pikhq> ehird: It's commonly pronounced worchester sauce.
01:32:01 <ehird> well i used to do that yeah
01:32:02 <pikhq> Facepalms all around.
01:32:14 <augur> its not worchester or even worcester sauce
01:32:18 <Sgeo> Yes, Disk Usage Analyzer, /host is taking up 100% of the space in /host
01:32:20 <augur> its worcestershire sauce.
01:32:44 <augur> and its pronounced /wUstIS@r/ :|
01:32:59 <pikhq> And yes, I know that.
01:33:10 <ehird> pikhq: http://filebin.ca/equugx/pickheadquarters.ogg Easy to pronounce. :P
01:33:13 <ehird> Disk Usage Analyzer
01:33:37 <augur> [pixq] isnt hard to pronounce :o
01:34:02 <ehird> 01:29 ehird: Iklïx is pronounced "ihcleech", I think.
01:34:02 <ehird> 01:29 ehird: ch as in Bach.
01:34:03 <ehird> 01:30 ehird: Huqiäa is, I think, "huckuiooah".
01:34:05 <ehird> 01:30 ehird: But the "ck" is softer.
01:34:10 <pikhq> Peek-eich-queue. Pronounced similarly to "Pikachu".
01:34:14 <pikhq> ... I was 8 at the time.
01:34:18 <augur> i dont know what that means, ehird
01:34:25 <ehird> augur: don't know what means
01:34:43 <augur> "ihcleech" and so forth.
01:34:58 <ehird> i'll try to record
01:36:10 <ehird> augur: if you cross-reference this with my hooked-on-phonics-esque descriptions, you should be able to get an idea of what I mean:
01:36:13 <ehird> http://filebin.ca/kycrxx/dsfdf.ogg
01:36:34 <ehird> just wondering how the hell you pronounce Phil Iklïx Huqiäa :D
01:39:14 <augur> that sounded a lot like [Iqlix xujuV] [ɪqlix xujuʌ]
01:39:33 <ehird> i don't even know what that means, i'm just trying to figure out how you pronounce Iklïx Huqiäa
01:39:45 <ehird> where x is Bach-ch and ¨ is umlaut
01:40:06 <augur> x is indeed german ch digraph
01:40:07 <oklopol> augur: why isn't it just a k?
01:40:20 <augur> but umlaut by itself is kind of senseless
01:40:25 <augur> oklopol: it just sounded like q, thats all.
01:40:40 <ehird> augur: well ï is ee, I think, and I think ä is oo
01:40:42 <augur> q is uvular, k is velar.
01:40:51 <ehird> just pronounce Phil Iklïx Huqiäa!
01:41:04 <augur> i dont know how to pronounce it because i dont know what orthography!
01:41:15 <ehird> augur: whatever feels right!
01:41:24 <ehird> mostly english i guess
01:41:33 <ehird> with the exception of the umlauted letters and the x
01:42:05 <oklopol> i'm sure you're interested in my professional opinion
01:42:23 <ehird> oklopol: you should become a professional professional
01:42:33 <ehird> your only purpose is to mention you're a professional and thus dispense professional advice/opinions/etc
01:42:44 <augur> today im going to be writing the part of my Grammar tutorials thats on Categorial Grammar
01:43:01 <oklopol> if it's not 2, then you haven't kept me updated
01:43:03 <augur> which is probably the kind thats most akin to lambda calculus youll get
01:43:10 <augur> its part 9 i think :P
01:43:12 <oklopol> then again i've been offline, so i'll forgive you
01:43:22 <oklopol> right, link when you have the times
01:43:28 <augur> wellnowwhat.net/blog
01:43:55 <augur> slereah: please dont.
01:43:59 <augur> oklopol: even better :D
01:44:16 <augur> hm. if pikhq is pikhq, maybe i could be pikplz :o
01:44:22 <ehird> augur: pronounce you bitch :|
01:44:31 <oklopol> i should probably go to sleep.
01:44:40 <augur> dirty boys are sexy boys
01:44:43 <GregorR> "pikplz" is pronounced akin to "pickles"
01:45:25 <GregorR> oklopol: You should be? :P
01:45:31 <oklopol> seriously, i've always thought of myself as a rather asexual being.
01:45:53 <GregorR> <oklopol> except for all that porno!
01:46:16 <oklopol> but thanks for reminding me
01:46:22 <oklopol> have to put my dl's back on
01:47:22 <oklopol> well asexual was irony for pansexual
01:47:49 <ehird> pikhq: "Bisexuality is a sexual orientation characterized by attraction to both the same gender and the opposite gender. Unlike pansexuality, it does not specifically include people who fall outside the gender binary. "
01:47:53 <augur> brb building my blackboard
01:47:58 <ehird> nobody means bisexual to mean "ONLY male or ONLY female"
01:48:47 <oklopol> you can't like both genders, but consider anything between sick and wrong?
01:48:47 <GregorR> "bisexual" is "pansexual", but a term people actually know.
01:49:05 <oklopol> i thought pansexual was like, you can have sex with a potato
01:49:20 <GregorR> oklopol: Anybody CAN have sex with a potato.
01:49:22 <ehird> No, sex with a pan.
01:49:23 <pikhq> oklopol: That would be phytophilia.
01:49:30 <ehird> Anyway, I'm going to become an "actual" bisexual to piss off people who say "pansexual".
01:49:36 <GregorR> oklopol: But no, the phrase for that is "Idaho native"
01:49:36 <ehird> If you're the most manly man ever, <3.
01:49:41 <ehird> 're the most girl girl ever, <3.
01:49:46 <ehird> If you're anything in-between —
01:49:48 <ehird> that means all of you —
01:49:53 <ehird> I hate you with the passion of a thousand fiery suns.
01:49:57 * pikhq gives ehird a transgender surgery
01:50:08 <oklopol> potato was just an example, in case you didn't realize that,
01:50:12 <ehird> Sexuality isn't linked to gender.
01:50:14 <GregorR> pikhq: Note: Most people are not sexually attracted to themselves :P
01:50:34 <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that.
01:50:46 <GregorR> `addquote <oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that.
01:50:47 <HackEgo> 48|<oklopol> i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that.
01:50:50 <pikhq> GregorR: That's autophilia.
01:51:06 <oklopol> isn't that about liking yourself
01:51:11 <ehird> Autophilia is liking—
01:51:23 <GregorR> Metrosexuality is sex with buses.
01:51:23 <ehird> http://sexwithcars.org/ is an actual forum with real people who think that.
01:51:38 <oklopol> pikhq: out of a plank != out of yourself
01:51:41 <ehird> Oh, and the ever famous: http://blackroses.textfiles.com/sex/sex-cars.faq
01:51:48 <ehird> Dekhy Dragon's Guide to Sex with Cars (for males)!
01:51:59 <oklopol> getting an erection out of looking into the mirror is physically *much* easier
01:52:04 <ehird> (Includes a section on how to have two people fucking the car at the same time.)
01:52:05 <HackEgo> www.dolphinsex.org/ - [14]Cached - [15]Similar \ 2. [16]No Loitering: Dolphin Sex Lives
01:52:10 <oklopol> not that either is what i'd normally enjoy on a sunday evening.
01:52:13 <ehird> Just go around asking people whether they fuck cars!
01:52:14 <GregorR> Oh, it's back up at its original domain? :P
01:52:35 <ehird> My google history: sexwithcars, dekhyr's guide to fucking cars, sex with dolphins
01:52:38 <ehird> The FBI looooooves me.
01:52:42 <oklopol> there was this doc about a guy who fucked cars
01:53:01 <ehird> http://www.geocities.com/karnautrahl/ ← Sex With Cars 2: Electric Boogaloo; from the guy who brought you the forum sexwithcars.org.
01:53:08 <ehird> Best part: http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlover/1873405308/
01:53:12 <ehird> A picture of a dragon fucking a car.
01:53:20 <ehird> I mean why not, right
01:53:27 <pikhq> Okay, so I'm going to have to listen to Five Iron Frenzy 2: Electric Boogaloo after this.
01:53:37 <pikhq> (note: not actually their second album)
01:53:38 <ehird> (I just keep all these links around for when I wanna gross people out.)
01:53:57 <Slereah> ehird : The original picture is better
01:53:59 <pikhq> (also-note: yes, that is the album's name)
01:54:42 <Slereah> I think it's from that series of pictures that furryguy did
01:54:53 <ehird> The engine was running still and I could feel the vibrations running through as if she was panting in heat. In heat for me Her rear end was slightly lower than normal-her wheels had sunk up to the hubcaps. Now I did not need to stand on tip toe to screw her tailpipe- she wanted me that much that she had lowered it down for me. I had to bend my knees slightly to reach though. First I knelt down and gently smelt her pipes while the engine was running-she s
01:54:55 <ehird> melled hot-I had to be carefull here though I enjoyed the smell and taste of her engine as well but I could not sit here forever enjoying her horny musk. The bodywork was giving off a delicous aroma of hot, wet and muddy metal and rubber. I was intoxicated by her miasma. I could not wait much longer- I had to have her. The new tailpipes were specially shaped so that I could screw her as hard and as fast as I wanted to without worrying about cuts and abra
01:55:00 <ehird> sions. They were smooth inside and as specified were just slightly small. I lubricated myself on with a little saliva that was all. I inserted the head of my penis into the entry to her tailpipe-I could feel the warm exhaust gases pushing against my cock. She had four to choose from so there was no real danger of excessive pressure. I kissed her slowly as I pushed into her against some resistance.
01:55:05 <ehird> — http://www.geocities.com/karnautrahl/Katie.html
01:55:07 <ehird> There's really no word.
01:55:33 <Slereah> Ooooh, the car is all dirty
01:55:42 <ehird> The forums were fucking crazy when they were public; those guys seem to actually think that the car wants sex and "consents" to it.
01:56:01 <ehird> One of Ford's main design goals for the Model T was fuckability and horniness!
01:56:04 <ehird> What do you think the horn's for?
01:56:46 <GregorR> I AM SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO HUMANS.
01:56:48 <ehird> [[Technically speaking it's not a man who has sex with cars. As I'm one such I know my subject. An autophile is in love with him or herself sexually. So I'm stuffed for a good word to use (apart from the often heard, insane, crazy, etc). The only alternative I've heard is automobiliphilia. Quite a mouthful, more than the gearknob of a Jaguar XJ8 so probably won't be popular.]]
01:57:00 <ehird> — Karnautrahl, the author of that Katie thing.
01:57:06 <pikhq> GregorR: HOMOPHILE!
01:57:14 <ehird> or is he implying he fellates gearknobs?
01:57:58 <oklopol> if you think it's a human, it's not that weird
01:58:15 <GregorR> oklopol: If you think it's a human, that's weird :P
01:58:21 <oklopol> if you think it's a car, then yes, might be kinda hard to like it
01:58:33 <ehird> The gearsticks are permanently "hard". ;-)
01:58:44 <pikhq> Now, are there any compuphiles?
01:59:06 <GregorR> `google sex with computers
01:59:08 <HackEgo> What Sex Are Computers? A language instructor was explaining to her class that in French, nouns unlike their English counterparts, are grammatically ... \ jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/9791.htm - [15]Cached - [16]Similar
01:59:13 <ehird> http://videogum.com/archives/trailer/control-alt-delete-the_022701.html
01:59:17 <ehird> Control Alt Delete, a "technosexual comedy" about a programmer so stressed out about fixing the Y2K bug that he starts having sex with computers, premiered at the Toronto Film Festival last week and got a distributor. While the "computer rape accusation" scene is humorous, I'm not sure this is going to be the next Office Space:
01:59:18 <oklopol> pikhq: dude had a relationship with a dude via computer, after relationship ended, he just continued with his laptop
01:59:40 <oklopol> i used to watch a lot of these
01:59:53 * ehird watches the trailer
02:00:04 <pikhq> WHAT THE FUCK PEOPLE. COULD WE AT LEAST AGREE ON WHAT SPECIES TO HAVE SEX WITH.
02:00:35 <GregorR> pikhq: First you have to get everybody to agree with having sex with /living things/. Or at leas organic things?
02:00:40 <ehird> haha is he actually going to fuck the computer
02:00:47 <pikhq> GregorR: Good point.
02:01:20 <oklopol> balloons aren't alive, and they are very popular
02:01:21 <ehird> Guys, click my link
02:01:26 <ehird> He fucks computers. Like, really.
02:01:32 <oklopol> as are shoes, but that's about humans mostly.
02:01:35 <GregorR> ehird: THIS IS WHY I AM NOT CLICKING YOUR LINK
02:01:47 <ehird> GregorR: It's just a trailer, it's SFW (it only has human porn) :-P
02:02:05 <ehird> he fucked a datacenter
02:02:08 <ehird> that's some hardcore shit
02:02:23 <ehird> ...then the world explodes
02:02:47 <ehird> Well, now I'm traumatised for life.
02:05:13 <oklopol> computers are complex things, shouldn't be hard to get off to them
02:05:25 <ehird> sex with fans (the spinning kind)
02:05:28 <ehird> note: this only works once
02:05:39 <oklopol> also easy to develop accidentally, as many masturbate in front of them day after day anyway
02:05:56 <ehird> steve jobs prolly tells his designers to make macs look sexual
02:06:02 <oklopol> but seriously i think i'm a bit too tired
02:06:13 <oklopol> well macs have very female forms
02:06:56 <ehird> http://images.apple.com/macpro/images/overview_hero1_20090309.png
02:07:02 <ehird> the holes are sized specifically to fit Jobs' penis
02:07:31 <ehird> Sometimes he masturbates it, instead: http://images.apple.com/macpro/images/overview_hero2_20090303.png
02:08:19 <Slereah> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/3d/Dragonsandcars01_top.jpg
02:08:54 <oklopol> that's a very animal-looking penis
02:09:02 <oklopol> i would've expected a dragon to have a human penis
02:09:52 <oklopol> not an actual dragon of course
02:10:06 <oklopol> those naturally have animal penises
02:10:56 <oklopol> food is probably a good substitute for sleep ->
02:12:43 <pikhq> No. Only caffeine.
02:13:37 <oklopol> caffeine seems to make me sleepy at first, the only thing it does nowadays is make it harder to actually fall asleep
02:13:50 <oklopol> should it make you sleepy at first?
02:14:10 <oklopol> i mean often after i drink a few cups, i'm ready for a nap.
02:16:03 <MizardX> I get that too. As if the body is trying to over-compensate before the caffeine starts to have it's full effect.
02:16:45 <oklopol> maybe. or just as maybe that makes no sense physiologically.
02:18:20 <ehird> i've always thought that pure liquid coffee would be awesome
02:18:35 <MizardX> I just remembered a quote: "Sleep is not a good substitute for Caffeine"
02:18:59 <ehird> to emulate it at drinkable temperatures, just grind the beans to shit, add the minimum water possible and use a heavy-duty mix/stir thingy every single speck of bean
02:19:09 <ehird> voila! actual coffee
02:19:50 <ehird> oklopol: but that is too hot to drink without burning yourself to shit
02:19:58 <ehird> i mean of course melting is one path to it, but you have to put a lil water in there after
02:20:19 <ehird> the important thing is to avoid actual solid specks of bean
02:20:22 <oklopol> maybe it's served in small pressure
02:20:33 <ehird> you want it to be an actual liquid drink
02:20:52 <ehird> just made of as much coffee as possible, with the only other ingredient being a tiny amount of (filtered) water
02:21:14 <MizardX> Press the beans so hard they emit their juices.
02:21:28 <ehird> hmm isn't the shell kinda part of it too?
02:22:19 <ehird> MizardX: also wouldn't 100% bean juice be kind of dangerous?
02:22:42 <ehird> if not, then squirt all the juices out, then absolutely pulverize the shells into as fine a grain as possible; get tiny bit of water, mix in, etc
02:22:47 <ehird> then pour into the juice
02:22:54 <ehird> voila! as pure as coffee as possible
02:24:34 <Slereah> ehird is a coffee supremacist
02:25:27 <augur> my blackboard is almost complete!
02:25:27 <ehird> anyone know if it'd be safe? anyone know if the shells are useful?
02:25:33 <augur> also, pure liquid coffee might be pretty good
02:25:37 <ehird> augur: are we talking a regular blackboard thing
02:25:39 <augur> coffee beans are pretty tasty
02:25:47 <augur> ehird: im building an a-frame blackboard
02:25:57 <ehird> augur: so it's safe then
02:26:09 <ehird> too much caffeine?
02:26:20 <augur> depends on how much you drank
02:26:50 <augur> plus, all the extra material from the coffee bean buffers the caffeine
02:26:51 <ehird> so anyway, squirt the juices out (hurr hurr penis), grind the shells to as fine a grain as possible, mix in as small an amount at a time as possible into as little filtered water as possible, using a good mixer/stirrer at each step
02:27:04 <ehird> pour the water/shell mix into the juice
02:27:21 <ehird> run your mixer/stirrer on it for a bit
02:27:23 <ehird> heating it up is left as an exercise to the reader
02:27:27 <augur> ehird, is this your plan for liquid coffee bean?
02:27:44 <ehird> augur: just as pure as coffee as possible while still having all the flavor
02:27:58 <augur> espresso is pretty close, you know.
02:28:08 <ehird> not nearly close enough
02:28:18 <augur> ive eaten coffee beans
02:28:33 <oklopol> ehird: it's still a deadly drink
02:28:35 <ehird> to compensate for not having awesome mixing powers
02:28:39 <augur> heres an alternative
02:28:42 <ehird> oklopol: um espresso isn't very deadly
02:28:54 <augur> i make coffee that often leaves lots of sediment in my cup
02:29:09 <augur> ill scoop the sediment out, pack it all together for you, and ship it off!
02:29:15 <ehird> point is, espresso has too much wate
02:29:22 <augur> and by sediment i mean like silt-y fine stuff
02:29:34 <ehird> with our way, you just have enough water to hold the extremely fine ground bits of bean
02:29:37 <augur> anyway, you could probably do it, ehird, but itd taste like espresso
02:29:37 <ehird> with a lot of mixing
02:29:39 <ehird> which is not a lot
02:29:46 <ehird> augur: no, the silt stuff will be kinda gloopy or whatever
02:29:52 <augur> so will your muck!
02:29:54 <pikhq> ehird: Why not just eat straight coffee beans?
02:29:54 <ehird> i want something that's a bona-fide liquid drink
02:29:59 <ehird> pikhq: it's not hot liquid
02:30:08 <ehird> augur: it's not muck, and it involves liqui
02:30:11 <ehird> just a small amount
02:30:16 <augur> ground up coffee bean
02:30:17 <ehird> also, that mixer/stirrer has to be excellent
02:30:23 <ehird> i mean, run it really fast and long
02:30:34 <ehird> augur: okay, i didn't state my process properly
02:30:36 <augur> very quickly, infact.
02:30:39 <ehird> lemme write a paste-sized version
02:30:54 <augur> what you, COULD do is like
02:31:02 <augur> make lots of really strong coffee
02:31:06 <augur> extract all the flavor you can
02:31:14 <augur> then distill it until heres hardly any water
02:31:24 <augur> but not add any powderized bean
02:31:40 <augur> thats a better option. the bean is mostly starch and fiber anyway.
02:32:51 <pikhq> Say, I was wondering: would anyone happen to know of where I may find a copy of Donald Knuth's "Things a Computer Scientist Rarely Talks About" lecture series? It was hosted on Dr. Dobb's site, but is no longer...
02:33:28 <ehird> augur: so the bean doesn't really have any flavor then?
02:33:36 <ehird> otoh it actually improves mine
02:33:45 <ehird> because it lets you make it less gloopy with a little bit of water
02:33:46 <pikhq> And yes, I am t3h googling.
02:33:49 <ehird> while still having coffee shit in it
02:33:55 <ehird> augur: http://pastie.org/557205.txt?key=1wmaucsdzjdko9jjm34dua full process
02:35:34 <pikhq> It would appear to have gone to the bit bucket.
02:35:51 <ehird> pikhq: http://www.amazon.com/Things-Computer-Scientist-Language-Information/dp/157586326X
02:36:03 <ehird> isn't it just his christian blab
02:36:12 <pikhq> ehird: Dr. Dobbs once upon a time had the video lectures.
02:36:16 <ehird> "3:16: Bible Texts Illuminated (1990), in which he examined the Bible by analyzing the third chapter and 16th verse of each book. In each lecture, Knuth explores various aspects of that project, such as the ways that the random selection of "3:16" functions as a method for understanding the overall thematic threads of biblical meaning and exposes the intersections of faith and computer science."
02:36:26 <ehird> numerology + christianity = hyuk hyuk hyuk
02:36:37 <ehird> pikhq: ah — [[In addition, since this book is simply a transcription of Knuth's lectures, it is recommended only for large academic libraries.]]
02:36:58 <pikhq> ehird: I'm intrigued is all.
02:37:08 <pikhq> And only the dead-tree is still around.
02:42:36 <pikhq> Y'know, I am increasingly convinced that new versions of Perl are designed by hitting a keyboard and trying to make the resulting line noise parse.
02:46:56 <ehird> Wow, it took you ages to arrive at a tedious, decades-old joke.
02:47:10 <ehird> Perl 5.10, in case you didn't realise, modernised the language and added a lot of clean features.
02:47:23 <pikhq> You've not seen Perl 6 much.
02:47:34 <ehird> pikhq: ever looked at the obfuscated c contest?
02:47:40 <ehird> "I can do that, too!"
02:47:54 <ehird> i agree that perl 6 sucks though
02:47:57 <pikhq> (... any more. :P)
02:47:58 <ehird> kitchen sinkus maximus
02:48:01 <ehird> pikhq: Haskell, too.
02:48:08 <ehird> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Obfuscation
02:48:57 <pikhq> ehird: ... That is scary.
02:49:18 <ehird> I don't (???????) what you (??????).
02:52:27 * Sgeo finishes watching Interstella 5555
02:54:16 <augur> i was busy making coffee :p
02:54:45 <Sgeo> I liked it, but it was difficult to follow at first
02:55:09 <ehird> augur: so, your comments.
02:55:27 <augur> my comments are you should mix it again after heating incase of settling.
02:55:31 <augur> the beans are worthless
02:56:20 <augur> essentially what you want to do, ehird, is make instant coffee thats really sludgey, since thats the purest kind of coffee you can get, except instant coffee itself is fucking disgusting, so you'd have to distill the coffee yourself
02:56:46 <ehird> augur: no, no, the bean shell is there for a reason
02:57:02 <ehird> augur: we have to add some water, otherwise we just have the plain juice, which will be too thick
02:57:09 <ehird> just adding water would be too watery
02:57:11 <augur> oklopol: dessicated coffee that you just need to add water to to get coffee
02:57:12 <ehird> and not pure coffee enough
02:57:17 <augur> ehird: plain juice?
02:57:21 <ehird> augur: so we add the beans in, to make the water more coffey-y
02:57:29 <augur> i know but what is this "juice"
02:57:41 <ehird> it specifically says what it is
02:57:59 <oklopol> hmm, probably because most instant coffees aren't just coffee
02:58:07 <augur> you squeeze the "juice" out of the beans
02:58:09 <oklopol> they're tasty sugary vanilla coffee
02:58:16 <augur> the juice is "what you squeezed out of the beens"
02:58:16 <ehird> augur: so it's fuzzy language
02:58:20 <augur> but what is that juice
02:58:23 <augur> i dont know what this is
02:58:26 <ehird> [[02:21 MizardX: Press the beans so hard they emit their juices.]] just sparked my interest :)
02:58:32 <augur> roasted beans have no "juice"
02:58:37 <ehird> augur: just pummel the beans until they're flat shells
02:59:04 <augur> ehird theres no real point to that
02:59:12 <ehird> yes there is, it's my method
03:01:17 <augur> you a) cant extract "juice" out of dry beans, because there is no juice in beans
03:01:28 <ehird> it's vague because i'm lazy
03:01:30 <augur> then what the hell did you say you could for!
03:01:31 <ehird> i am a lazy perosn
03:01:35 <augur> what you really should do
03:01:43 <augur> is grind your beens up REALLY finely
03:01:56 <augur> maybe not TOO finely but pretty finely
03:02:08 <ehird> that's the shell portion
03:02:15 <augur> and make espresso, which will extract a lot of the flavor
03:02:31 <ehird> it has way too much wate
03:02:32 <augur> then you boil off the water until you've gotten very little left
03:02:37 <ehird> let's assume we're in ethopia
03:02:45 <ehird> we have like less than one glass of water
03:02:45 <augur> and you have just essentially pure coffee
03:03:04 <augur> ehird, you CANT grind up the beans to a powder and add water to that
03:03:31 <ehird> if i had a teleporter i'd prove it to you right now
03:03:33 <augur> the beans have too much non-coffee stuff in them, the powder will just form a sediment and wont add flavor
03:04:03 <augur> like i said, you want to make strong coffee and then concentrate that because then you have JUST the stuff that makes coffee coffee
03:06:57 <augur> especially because once you've added water to the sediment that you're making, the sediment itself will mostly not even HAVE any flavor to it
03:07:09 <ehird> augur: it doesn't need to add flavor
03:07:15 <ehird> it just needs to make it less gloopy
03:07:22 <ehird> i just add in the shells to make it less watery
03:07:38 <ehird> it's more coffeey therefore it wins
03:07:41 <augur> but youd get the same thing by distilling off the water from pure coffee
03:07:51 <ehird> report back with pictures.
03:07:56 <augur> having the sediment detracts from the pure coffee, actually
03:08:04 <augur> because its volume but no coffee flavor
03:08:34 <ehird> augur: but that's because just pure coffee will be too gloopy
03:08:37 <ehird> water would do the same
03:08:39 <augur> what we really might want to do is figure out how to extract the essential oils of coffee
03:08:45 <ehird> but the shells are just... coffee-feelin
03:08:49 <ehird> doing that wouldn't really be coffee
03:08:56 <ehird> you might as well synthesize caffeine + flavours
03:09:04 <augur> the essential oils are what makes coffee coffee
03:09:07 <augur> instead of just hot water!
03:09:43 <augur> we'd have to have some sort of fractional distillation process i guess. or we could try to let the oils separate off
03:09:56 <augur> i often have coffee that has clear films of coffee oils on the surface
03:09:58 <ehird> it's funny, i don't even like coffee all that much
03:10:04 <augur> i imagine that letting it sit would let it separate even more
03:10:07 <oklopol> this dude used to put caffeine pills in his coffee
03:10:08 <ehird> but it interests me to play around with them
03:10:18 <ehird> we should start a coffee lab
03:10:25 <ehird> where we have a bunch of expensive heavy-duty equipment
03:10:29 <ehird> and just make coffee with it
03:10:33 <augur> ehird have you seen that coffee making thingy
03:10:36 <ehird> like, we can have it as a café
03:10:39 <augur> that looks like a piece of lab equipment?
03:10:40 <ehird> with a really fucking huge behind-store
03:10:45 <ehird> augur: that $11,000 thing?
03:10:52 <ehird> starbucks made it, or at least own it now
03:11:16 <ehird> augur: http://www.slate.com/id/2185655/
03:11:28 <ehird> http://www.starbucks.com/clover/
03:11:40 <augur> thats just a fancy espresso machine
03:11:41 <ehird> augur: anyway I'm thinking more like really big stuff
03:11:48 <ehird> like, the size of a big desk
03:11:57 <ehird> totally filled with machinery
03:12:01 <ehird> and that's just one phase!
03:12:34 <ehird> augur: i wonder if we could get a government grant to find out a way to make coffee by pummeling it with lasers
03:12:51 <ehird> simultaneously evaporate the plate between them and shoot tons of high-powered lasers at it
03:12:55 <augur> it depends on whether or not torchwood would be involved
03:13:01 <augur> im sure ianto might have a way :o
03:13:40 <ehird> i wonder if you can buy a machine where it lifts up an object
03:13:48 <ehird> and has two really heavy metal plates at either side
03:13:48 <augur> its called a forklift.
03:13:53 <ehird> it slams them together at the object
03:13:55 <ehird> at really high speed
03:13:58 <ehird> with tons of force
03:14:04 <ehird> just call it the DECIMATOR
03:14:15 <augur> the thing i was thinking about isnt 11k
03:14:25 * Sgeo wishes PortableApps worked as-is on Linux
03:14:27 <augur> http://coffeegeek.com/guides/siphoncoffee
03:14:43 <Sgeo> So I could use the apps no matter the OS (well, not OS X >.>)
03:15:02 <Sgeo> But I only use Linux and Windows
03:15:06 <ehird> augur: anyway there's clearly only one good way to make true pure coffee
03:15:12 <ehird> get your coffee beans
03:15:14 <ehird> heat them until they melt
03:15:21 <ehird> mix them madly to soften them
03:15:32 <ehird> grow your coffee beans
03:15:36 <ehird> (put them next to your weed)
03:15:39 <ehird> heat them until they melt
03:15:40 <augur> some coffee geeks grow their own beans
03:15:42 <augur> and roast them too
03:15:43 <ehird> (no, not the weed, the coffee)
03:15:51 <ehird> augur: let's skip roasting
03:15:55 <ehird> let's go straight to melting
03:15:58 <augur> nah you have to roast them
03:16:03 <augur> otherwise it doesnt taste like coffee
03:16:05 <ehird> heat them until they melt
03:16:15 <augur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JcOndpcGU
03:16:16 <ehird> mix them wildly to get it thinner
03:16:28 <ehird> i wonder what kinda temperature you need to melt coffee beans
03:16:41 <augur> cant be done, actually.
03:17:06 <augur> the heat would cause various chemical processes to happen
03:17:14 <augur> that would either 1) result in burning, if exposed to air
03:17:23 <ehird> don't expose it to air.
03:17:25 <augur> or 2) result in carbonization if kept out of air
03:17:35 <ehird> decarbonize it. :P
03:18:13 <augur> that this siphon device
03:18:17 <augur> could be easilly made
03:18:41 <augur> and isnt worth 20k.
03:19:15 <ehird> augur: why can't we decarbonify it :P
03:19:26 <augur> because that would just make coffee beans again.
03:19:38 <augur> or coffee bean powder.
03:19:58 <augur> also, itd be impossible, but ignoring that.
03:20:08 <ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D
03:20:22 <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:20:45 <augur> which also doesnt melt.
03:21:06 <ehird> augur: so there's no way to have actual liquid coffee beans? :(
03:21:19 <augur> ehird: not without getting rid of the starch and fiber in the bean.
03:21:31 <ehird> would that be an issue
03:21:41 <augur> no, it would just involve making coffee from it.
03:22:12 <GregorR> `addquote <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:22:13 <HackEgo> 49|<augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:22:24 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
03:22:29 <GregorR> However, "<augur> which also doesnt melt."
03:22:39 <augur> when you make coffee, all you're using is using water to make the non-starch non-fiber stuff move out of the starch and fiber
03:22:47 <augur> gregorr: no. not everything.
03:22:56 <ehird> <ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:23:01 <ehird> `addquote <ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:23:02 <HackEgo> 49|<ehird> is there a problem with it being carbonized :D <augur> yes: carbonized coffee bean is known more commonly as "charcoal"
03:23:27 <GregorR> augur: You're telling me there are materials that are a solid at 12 quadrillion degrees :P
03:23:53 <ehird> GregorR: wouldn't they be gas or plasma
03:23:54 <augur> im telling you there are materials that go straight from solid to gas or plasma at 12 quadrillion degrees.
03:24:22 <GregorR> ehird: In plasma form, it wouldn't be coffee, it would just be protons, electrons and neutrons floating about.
03:24:29 <augur> if it were plasma, the nuclei would be free from the electrons
03:24:34 <augur> there wouldnt be molecules
03:24:38 <augur> gass coffee, maybe.
03:24:50 <augur> depends on whether or not the oils and such can vaporize.
03:24:52 <ehird> GregorR: haha that made me laugh
03:24:57 <ehird> i almost spit out my lemonade :\
03:25:18 <augur> given the nature of oils in general, coffee probably cant be vaporized without burning
03:25:22 * Sgeo solves a ProjectEuler problem with one line of Python
03:25:29 <augur> or without significant chemical changes that make it not coffee
03:25:31 <GregorR> augur: So take it to an oxygen-free environment, yeesh
03:25:33 <ehird> augur: maybe burnt coffee tastes delicious
03:25:36 <ehird> have you considered that huh
03:25:38 <augur> gregorr: see above.
03:25:39 <ehird> GregorR: it carbonizes
03:25:42 <ehird> we've established that
03:25:44 <ehird> you QUOTED that :P
03:25:51 <augur> the coffee BEAN carbonizes
03:25:54 <augur> the oils might not
03:26:01 <augur> there also might be other chemicals that are relevant
03:26:11 <ehird> augur: anyway, maybe burnt coffee beans are wonderful.
03:26:17 <ehird> in which case let's melt it with air.
03:26:21 <GregorR> If I knew your middle name, I would go: <ehird's mom> Elliott <Middle name> Hird!!!
03:26:26 <GregorR> Because I'm sure that's something she's said.
03:26:30 <ehird> GregorR: My middle name is
03:26:32 <ehird> GregorR: My middle name is
03:26:34 <ehird> Segmentation fault
03:26:35 <augur> ehird: Starbucks is nicknamed Charbucks by coffee snobs
03:26:46 <GregorR> Hahahah, people who don't have middle names are losers.
03:27:00 <ehird> (I actually corrected that to have a space at the end :-) )
03:27:11 <ehird> augur: BUT, there are people who can drink Starbucks and enjoy it
03:27:29 <augur> ehird: there are people who eat feces and enjoy it.
03:27:33 <ehird> so burnt coffee beans can't be _undrinkably_ bad; perhaps with my magical MELTED COFFEE it could be acceptable
03:27:41 <ehird> it's not like eating charcoal, at least
03:27:55 <augur> i once had some Lindt 99% pure chocolate
03:28:01 <augur> it tasted and felt like eating charcoal powder.
03:28:23 <augur> it was silty, and the silt would collect between your cheek and your gums
03:28:28 <augur> horribly bitter stuff
03:28:33 <ehird> i've eaten 95% chocolate, or was it 98%
03:28:40 <ehird> whatever, it was nice
03:28:42 <augur> after eating the 99% pure chocolate
03:28:54 <augur> drinking tonic water was completely bearably
03:29:03 <augur> because i couldnt taste the tonic over the chocolate
03:29:08 <GregorR> I have had 99%, 95%, 90%, 85%, 80%, 75%, 65%, and various lower than that. I think 80% is about the point where above that it gets worse, not better. Maybe 85%.
03:29:20 <GregorR> Oh, and I think 72% somewhere too.
03:29:25 <augur> but the 99% stuff is like
03:29:40 <augur> its charcoal with a little bit of cocoa butter.
03:29:41 <ehird> charcoal smells lovely
03:29:54 <augur> google celebrates comics today
03:31:02 <ehird> i want liquid coffee beans
03:31:09 <ehird> augur: even if we did get them... how on earth do you keep it liquid :D
03:31:22 <augur> very high temperatures that would make them undrinkable.
03:31:24 <ehird> ("how do you keep a circle square, circle?")
03:31:35 <ehird> i was hoping for like "MODIFYING THE ATOMIC STRUCTURE"
03:31:35 <augur> ehird, this is why you should just try distilling coffee
03:31:44 <ehird> i only like absolute solutions
03:31:45 <augur> yes, and so is the coffee.
03:31:59 <augur> the bean is nothing but a wooden carrier for coffee goodness
03:32:13 <augur> a wooden football soaked in yummy coffee.
03:32:19 <ehird> augur: extract all the goodness
03:32:30 <augur> ehird: yes, that extraction coffee is called making coffee.
03:32:39 <ehird> but the whole point is no water
03:32:46 <augur> yes, thats why you distill it
03:33:06 <augur> you might need a fractional still to make sure you remove just the water tho
03:33:13 <augur> because there might be chemicals with lower boiling poins
03:33:19 <ehird> it's notable that i can't really drink strong coffee
03:33:44 <ehird> i love the smells and everything
03:33:48 <ehird> just not the taste
03:33:49 <augur> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf970009t
03:33:55 <augur> ehird, you'd love my coffee.
03:34:01 <augur> i have a magic recipe that goes like this
03:34:02 <ehird> i want coffee that's optimised for smell
03:34:10 <ehird> it invades your bloodstream via your nose.
03:34:31 <ehird> augur: it does like ?
03:34:35 <ehird> wow, that's amazing
03:34:58 <augur> coffee, cinnamon, vanilla -> french press. hot water -> french press. stir, steep, press, pour -> mostly fill cup. 3 tsp sugar -> cup. half and half -> cup.
03:35:16 <ehird> that sounds ridiculously sweet
03:35:33 <augur> cuban coffee is ridiculously sweet
03:35:37 <augur> cuban coffee is like
03:35:43 <augur> thats been concentrated
03:35:51 <ehird> that sounds ummm bitter, not sweet
03:36:07 <augur> so that a tazza of espresso
03:36:11 <augur> now fills maybe a thimble
03:36:21 <augur> then you mix that with like a tablespood of sugar
03:36:34 <augur> not a tablespoon, a tablespoo_D_
03:36:40 <augur> a whole tablespood.
03:36:46 <ehird> augur: ship me some of your coffee at 0K so that it stays perfect
03:36:55 <augur> that might damage it.
03:36:58 <ehird> also modify it so that when it stops being 0K, it instantly becomes the right temperature
03:37:00 <ehird> augur: pfft nonsense
03:37:06 <ehird> just transport it to a universe where everything is 0K
03:37:12 <augur> freezing can alter the chemical composition of the coffee.
03:37:24 <ehird> just place it in 0Kland
03:37:37 <augur> being at 0K might still alter the chemical composition
03:37:45 <augur> who knows what quantum superposition will do to the coffee!
03:38:18 <augur> all coffee is quantum coffee.
03:38:28 <augur> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf970009t
03:38:51 <ehird> all everything is quantum everything
03:39:14 <augur> ive had more insights into why the universe might be running on a giant supercomputer.
03:39:28 <ehird> stick to the coffee
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03:40:56 <augur> oh ho but i am ehird
03:41:00 <augur> because if we can contact the sysadmins of the universe
03:41:14 <augur> they might be beneficent enough to let us hack together some liquid coffee
03:41:28 <ehird> augur, you do know that belief in a simulated universe is equivalent to a belief in god?
03:41:53 <augur> except in this case, god wears t-shirts and has cheetoh stains on his shirt.
03:42:01 <ehird> goes against occam's razor, assumes things that are not us are like us and merely offloads the complexity
03:42:06 <ehird> (i.e., where did _they_ come from)
03:42:13 <ehird> augur: hmm well that is more appealing yes
03:42:24 <oklopol> augur: ive had more insights into why the universe might be running on a giant supercomputer. <<< you believe that too?
03:42:25 <augur> if the universe IS a giant simulation
03:42:33 <ehird> oklopol: congrats, you're religious
03:42:35 <augur> than /b/tards are the blessed 144 thousand
03:42:54 <augur> ehird, isnt that frightening? D:
03:42:58 <oklopol> believing this is a simulation
03:43:01 <ehird> augur: not really, because i don't believe it
03:43:02 <augur> slereah might be one of The Saved
03:43:21 <oklopol> it's an afterlife i can believe in
03:43:38 <augur> anyway, whether or not this is a simulation is all kind of moot until we discover otherwise. however, there might be certain things that could prove it.
03:43:47 <augur> not that i know what those are but
03:44:06 <ehird> i wish there were teleports
03:44:21 <ehird> so you could teleport me some coffee, i feel like some right now
03:45:10 <augur> in Cory Doctorow's true names, i think, there are some philosopher AIs
03:45:25 <augur> that have developed a way of calculating whether or not a reality was simulated
03:45:31 <ehird> he is an awful writer and an obnoxious person
03:45:32 <oklopol> ehird: it's more a way to justify my semisoliptist views.
03:45:34 <augur> based on various logical properties that must follow
03:45:37 <augur> oh hush, i love him. :P
03:45:39 <ehird> oklopol: *solipsist
03:45:45 <ehird> augur: we're not friends any more
03:46:07 <augur> there MIGHT be certain aspects of reality that necessarily entail true realness
03:46:15 <augur> while simulations might not be able to have those aspects
03:46:40 <augur> anyway, wanna hear my compelling reasons for believe the universe is a simulation? XD
03:47:01 <oklopol> (after that i can tell you why the clock has to have a maker)
03:47:06 <augur> ok, so i told you the other day about the whole time ordering relativity thing, right?
03:47:18 <ehird> oh he's doing crap physics again
03:47:30 <augur> ok ill do it in private then :|
04:14:09 <oklopol> well clearly this is a closed system
04:14:44 <oklopol> i do hear voices sometimes, but that's just my head
04:15:19 <augur> i wish i heard voices. that'd be cool. not crazy voices tho
04:15:23 <augur> voices that are like
04:15:31 <augur> "mm get the panini, it looks good"
04:15:46 <GregorR> I hear ... my voice in my head >_>
04:16:02 <augur> all of the sudden i just got kind of weird feeling in my head D:
04:16:06 <augur> like my focus is kind of off
04:16:19 <augur> THE SYSADMINS FROM THE METAVERSE ARE MESSING WITH ME D:
04:16:23 <oklopol> i get these sort of panic attacks where lots of people are whispering fast and loud in my head, i call it my programming mode
04:16:54 <oklopol> it's very rare, but i love it
04:17:03 <GregorR> oklopol: ... I would consider consulting a therapist about that ...
04:17:21 <augur> gregorr: therapists only treat you if its interfering with your life.
04:17:30 <oklopol> my life is pretty much perfect
04:17:36 <augur> the definition of a psychiatric illness /requires/ that it interferes with your life.
04:17:42 <GregorR> oklopol: My life is perfecter! :P
04:17:45 <oklopol> except for the fact i'm incredibly lazy when i'm not being insanely productive
04:17:48 <augur> if it doesnt interfere, psychiatrists dont care.
04:18:04 <oklopol> have you been unhappy during the last say 3 years?
04:18:05 <augur> perhaps its that you're not production when you're incredibly lazy!
04:18:11 <oklopol> i've been maybe 5 times or so
04:18:28 <pikhq> I can has psychiatric illnes.
04:18:29 <oklopol> usually due to being tired.
04:18:35 <GregorR> I'm emotionally neutral at nearly all times ...
04:18:57 <augur> pikhq: more like grammar problems.
04:19:00 <GregorR> I'm trying to think of a situation where I've been UNhappy recently ...
04:19:12 <pikhq> I also use English oddly at times, but that has little to do with psychiatric illnes.
04:19:22 <pikhq> Just psychiatric oddness.
04:20:14 <oklopol> GregorR: well, i can't remember an exact time either
04:20:36 <oklopol> but yeah maybe emotionally neutral would be the most optimal way to live, i tend to be high on life 24/7
04:20:53 <GregorR> I'm not a particularly emotional person *shrugs*
04:20:55 <oklopol> like, you know, staring at trees in awe and shit
04:21:10 <GregorR> Closest I get is lost in music.
04:22:32 <oklopol> hmm. if you don't feel anything, how do you measure quality?
04:22:43 <oklopol> i mean i can beat you with any measure, i'm sure.
04:23:04 <GregorR> I didn't say I don't feel ANYTHING, I'm just not very emotional.
04:23:32 <oklopol> i'm content even when i'm unhappy.
04:23:34 <GregorR> How many free vacations to foreign countries have you been on? :P
04:23:41 <oklopol> because my life is perfect
04:23:47 <oklopol> "free"? err, none i guess.
04:24:05 <GregorR> If "free vacations to foreign countries" is a measure of life quality, I win on that measure :P
04:24:24 <oklopol> i don't like vacations, i prefer university atm
04:24:25 <GregorR> Well, in each occasion I have to present a paper or something thereabout.
04:24:50 <GregorR> And by "have to" I mean "get to", because I love public speaking.
04:25:00 <oklopol> but why would i want a free trip to a foreign country, when i could just read at home.
04:25:27 <GregorR> ... clearly our measurements schemes are incomparable :P
04:25:29 <oklopol> learning is about as good as sex, which i also have more than you
04:25:46 <oklopol> maybe so, let's just agree we're both perfect and get on with our lives
04:26:03 <GregorR> Although I wonder why you make such strong assumptions about my sex life :P
04:26:12 <GregorR> Unless of course you're a porn star on the side, and so can reasonably make them.
04:26:54 <GregorR> `addquote <oklopol> i'm not a porn star, no
04:26:55 <HackEgo> 50|<oklopol> i'm not a porn star, no
04:26:58 <oklopol> i rarely have sex more than once a day, tbh
04:27:00 <GregorR> That whole conversation was just to get that quote in the quote DB.
04:27:10 <GregorR> That done, I'm going to sleep.
04:27:42 * pikhq has emotions, in honor of Gregor, who has not
04:27:52 <GregorR> I'm not a fekking vulcan >_<
04:28:42 * GregorR carefully makes sure his hair covers his ears.
04:28:50 * GregorR reapplies his reddening makeup.
04:30:01 <oklopol> for a second i was tempted to say "...the vulcan erupted", but that simply made no sense
04:36:05 <coppro> yeah, vulcans have excellent emotion control
04:37:22 <Sgeo> Is it worth it to go to PyCon?
04:40:44 <pikhq> Sgeo: No. Needs more hallucinogens.
05:11:45 * Sgeo looks at Jaxer
05:11:56 <Sgeo> If it weren't for the first example, I'd say it looks quite cool
05:24:15 <Sgeo> It's all PHPy though. Mixing business logic with display
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06:23:58 <oklopol> what a great webcam recording program, it lets you upload videos to youtube and send emails, but there's no way to save a recording :D
06:31:44 <oklopol> AnMaster: can you play .wmv?
06:31:51 <oklopol> i don't know how to convert
06:33:10 <oklopol> recorded some piano for you, not really my top speed, but fast enough
06:36:29 <oklopol> trivial snippet for the right hand, http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/pianovids/pianoriff.wmv, also i'm naked but it's totally sfw.
06:36:46 <oklopol> sound is really bad, i had to play it slowly in the beginning so you know what i'm doing
06:38:17 <oklopol> wonder if the shops are open ~>
06:40:28 <oklopol> would've recorded something longer and more sensible as well, but i have to play pretty loud to get even that almost inexistant sound on the vid, and it's kinda early
06:40:48 <oklopol> also i don't really know that many songs
06:41:31 <fizzie> I just saw the words "naked" and "oklopol" and reflexively wgetted the link, before noticing the sfw label.
06:42:10 <oklopol> you don't really see anything good
06:42:45 <fizzie> Yes, well, turning the camera around a bit was a nice touch, still.
06:43:01 <oklopol> well i had to see the screen to know where the button is!
06:43:16 <oklopol> also i wasn't actually going to send that version, it's just i probably woke my neighbors already.
06:48:37 <oklopol> cool, it's not even that bad on 50% speed
06:49:28 <oklopol> except left-right sync kinda sucks, requires more concentration
06:50:38 <oklopol> i need to go there i think ->
06:52:05 * Sgeo feels like he's cheating in Project Euler
06:52:17 * Sgeo isn't thinking about the math, he's just using quick Python
07:23:28 <oklopol> Sgeo: the rule of thumb is if it takes over a minute to solve, you're doing it wrong; whether you use math or programming doesn't matter
07:23:40 <oklopol> also for python, i'd increase the limit a bit
07:28:51 * Sgeo needs to go to sleep eventually
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11:40:34 <augur> http://www.wellnowwhat.net/blog/?p=294
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11:50:42 <ehird> <oklopol> Sgeo: the rule of thumb is if it takes over a minute to solve, you're doing it wrong
11:51:03 <ehird> I've written my program but should it take days to get to the answer?
11:51:03 <ehird> Absolutely not! Each problem has been designed according to a "one-minute rule", which means that although it may take several hours to design a successful algorithm with more difficult problems, an efficient implementation will allow a solution to be obtained on a modestly powered computer in less than one minute.
11:51:08 <ehird> the program should RUN in less than one minute
11:51:10 <ehird> it could take hours to write
11:59:43 <ehird> i did. it went over my head
11:59:50 <augur> its just lambda calculus :|
12:00:22 <augur> why is CG too hard? :|
12:01:41 <augur> what about it do you find hard to understand??
12:03:55 <augur> i havent slept yet xp
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12:14:58 <nooga> how to match chars like óąćńę etc. using regexp?
12:15:17 <ehird> by typing them into the regexp
12:15:34 <ehird> if your language just does bytes, hope it's in the right encoding and get a new language
12:16:27 <nooga> i thought i could use range like a-z
12:16:38 <ehird> you can if your language is unicode, nooga
12:18:16 <ehird> nooga: you can do it
12:18:42 <nooga> i guess there's no automagic thing to convert ą->a ę->e etc
12:18:56 <ehird> there's a script for thta.
12:20:19 <ehird> nooga: anyway, why do you want to do that?
12:20:58 <fizzie> If you just want to match "alphabetic characters" in general, that might be possible too. I don't do ruby, but the POSIX character-class [[:alpha:]] might work there. Perl regexps have \p{IsAlpha} which does the same thing.
12:21:22 <ehird> you have to deal with encoding and everything
12:21:28 <ehird> for what you match it on
12:21:30 <ehird> just don't go there
12:21:41 <ehird> nooga: anyway either find a script to do it or don't do it because it sounds like a bad idea
12:22:33 <ehird> nooga: Anyway, you can pipe it to http://www.tablix.org/%7Eavian/blog/archives/2009/01/unicode_transliteration_in_python/
12:23:30 <ehird> i.e., `python -c "from unidecode import unidecode; import chardet; print unidecode(chardet.detect(sys.stdin.read())['encoding'])"`
12:23:34 <nooga> did it using gsub and dictionary
12:23:44 <ehird> nooga: congrats, now it only works if someone inputs UTF-8
12:23:48 <ehird> if anyone uses UTF-16 it'll stay
12:23:53 <ehird> also, you still haven't said WHY
12:28:55 <nooga> tr('ąćęłńóśźżĄĆĘŁŃÓŚŹŻ', 'acelnoſzzacelnoſzz')
12:29:30 <ehird> your function is _broken_
12:29:45 <augur> and ehird doesnt use spaces
12:29:55 <nooga> oh, it's only srcipt for me to build some tags
12:29:56 <ehird> not when i'm talking to complete fucking morons, no
12:30:11 <ehird> nooga: well gee, maybe if you'd actually said that one of the three times i asked
14:02:34 <nooga> coud i say that "i excess distance to avoid trafic jams" ?
14:03:34 <ehird> no, for several reasons
14:03:41 <ehird> 1) I don't know what "coud" is
14:03:48 <ehird> 2) Excess isn't a verb
14:03:53 <ehird> 3) I don't know what "trafic" is
14:06:46 <nooga> how to say that i choose longer way
14:08:20 <augur> nooga: you say "I choose a longer way"
14:08:25 <ehird> That sentence isn't even vaguely grammatically correct, but let's give it a try.
14:08:44 <ehird> nooga: "I take the longer route to avoid traffic jams."
14:08:49 <ehird> That only works in present-tense, though.
14:08:53 <ehird> If you mean you do it in general:
14:08:56 <augur> or more fluidly, "I travel further, but in doing so, bypass traffic jams and get to my destination sooner"
14:08:58 <ehird> "I take longer routes to avoid traffic jams."
14:09:11 <ehird> augur: that's adding rather more semantics than what he said :
14:09:21 <augur> tho i suspect the truth behind what you're saying is more like
14:09:30 <augur> "I take the quickest route."
14:09:58 <augur> which is true in the case of traffic jams precisely when its faster to take a longer route
14:10:21 <augur> but which is also true sans traffic jams, which is likely also what you really mean to convey
14:10:51 <fizzie> "I take the road less traveled, for it makes all the difference in avoiding traffic jams."
14:11:22 <ehird> "I'm a scenic driver because traffic jams irk."
14:11:25 <augur> interesting paradox: sometimes, adding more roads to a road network can increase mean travel time
14:12:07 <augur> fizzie, did you see my tutorial on categorial grammar? x3
14:12:39 <fizzie> I have a horrible urge to answer "tl;dr" here.
14:12:53 <augur> you should read it anyway. its not /too/ long
14:12:57 <ehird> fizzie: I agree with the disinterested sentiment, but never say "tl;dr" or I'll kill you.
14:13:04 <nooga> i need a sentence: take longer route to avoid <something>
14:13:23 <augur> its pretty quick going if you're familiar with lambda calculus and can generalize it.
14:13:30 <augur> *typed lambda calculus
14:13:55 <ehird> nooga: in what context?
14:14:01 <ehird> commanding someone to take the longer route?
14:14:05 <augur> ehird: none, hes context free x3
14:14:08 <ehird> saying that you always take the longer route?
14:14:15 <ehird> saying that you, right now, as an action, take it?
14:14:26 <nooga> take longer route TO AVOID something
14:14:31 <ehird> i was leaving that implicit
14:14:52 <ehird> nooga: then: "I always take a longer route to avoid traffic jams."
14:14:59 <ehird> "I generally take a longer route to avoid traffic jams."
14:15:09 * ehird wonders wtf nooga is doing :)
14:15:24 <augur> ehird: who knows. he's a nutball.
14:15:58 <ehird> subtle gay undertones!
14:16:34 <augur> he's got two balls of nuts next to his yule log :o
14:17:01 <ehird> that's um… some penis
14:17:06 <augur> youve never heard of a yule log?
14:17:14 <ehird> i know what a yule log is.
14:17:38 <ehird> i just don't think that penises are generally all that swirly you know?
14:17:40 <augur> its when you plot the amount of joy relative to time of the year, on a log-log scale
14:17:47 <ehird> also you don't cut bits off of them. usually
14:18:06 <augur> uh.. how are yule logs swirly?
14:18:21 <augur> well around their axis, i guess, sure.
14:18:24 <ehird> http://www.aeb.org/Recipes/Desserts/CHOCOLATEALMONDYULELOG_files/chocolate-almond-yule-log.jpg; you might have meant actual, uhh, logs
14:18:32 <ehird> but everyone says yule log to mean that so nyah
14:18:38 <ehird> (if that's 404 cut off the ending ;)
14:19:11 <augur> but real testicles are not made from pecans held together with syrupy stuff either
14:19:37 <ehird> i think i should go see a doctor
14:22:20 <augur> http://www.violet.com/index.php?catname=new%20gifts&detail=AB010420
14:22:25 <augur> ive been thinking about doing just that
14:23:20 <augur> goggles for cutting onions
14:23:28 <ehird> augur: that doesn't link to an actual product there
14:23:42 <ehird> just a "WE'RE CLOSING SOON! so 'sall cheap."
14:23:43 <augur> stupid redirect :|
14:23:57 <augur> http://www.swiss-miss.com/2007/10/onion-action-go.html
14:23:58 <ehird> also they fail to say why they're closing
14:24:01 <ehird> i hate it when people don't say that
14:24:07 <ehird> *companies, not people
14:24:27 <augur> ive got some goggles from chemistry class that i can use. :D
14:24:57 <ehird> i wonder if anyone's synthesized coffee in a lab.
14:25:06 <augur> http://www.swiss-miss.com/2007/06/nomad_travel_si.html
14:25:17 <augur> ehird: synthesized coffee? probably not.
14:25:35 <ehird> augur: well they should!
14:25:43 <ehird> just synthesize the perfect cup of coffee without any of that pesky process
14:31:13 <augur> only one month left!
14:31:23 <augur> until i get my own apartment
14:31:41 <augur> im gonna have a KITCHEN
14:31:51 <ehird> why did you say ugh
14:31:59 <augur> because its not here right now!
14:32:14 <ehird> augur you can have my imaginary apartment
14:32:17 <ehird> it's great apart from not existing
14:32:56 <ehird> hmm well it has every room ever
14:33:01 <ehird> you just walk into the next room and it's the room you need
14:33:05 <ehird> and the room is exactly how you want it
14:33:14 <ehird> it only has two rooms because every other one comes from just switching
14:33:16 <ehird> also it's of arbitrary size
14:33:21 <ehird> and it's in an arbitrary place
14:33:25 <ehird> it's wherever you want it to be right now
14:33:27 <augur> that reminds me of a story or something
14:33:33 <ehird> and looks exactly like whatever you want it to be right now, etc.
14:33:33 <augur> about a house that existed in four dimensions
14:33:36 <ehird> also it is imaginary and does not exist
14:33:50 <ehird> augur: “—And He Build a Crooked House—”
14:33:53 <ehird> by Robert A. Heinlein
14:33:57 <augur> i love you ehird. <3
14:34:07 <ehird> all that pedanticism
14:34:10 <ehird> and I make a trivial spelling error
14:34:27 <AnMaster> <oklopol> AnMaster: can you play .wmv? <-- probably
14:37:00 <ehird> omg, his ARMS are naked in it
14:37:05 <ehird> that's just horrific
14:39:04 <ehird> oklopol isn't here augur
14:39:12 <ehird> of him playing pian
14:39:16 <ehird> it's almost like playing penis naked
14:39:29 <ehird> oklopianorn: http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/pianovids/pianoriff.wmv
14:39:36 <ehird> pianorn is a really crap term
14:39:44 <augur> oklopol playing piano?! :o
14:40:55 <augur> oklopols so adorable
14:42:49 <fizzie> It's not just arms, thanks to that camera-rotation fan-service thing at the end.
14:43:12 <ehird> yeah i said arms before that
14:43:34 <ehird> what could be more explicit than invisible-due-to-darkness, compressed-to-hell oklochest
14:43:55 <GregorR> So compressed he could be wearing a bloody overcoat :P
14:44:01 <GregorR> (Sleeveless overcoat? :P )
14:44:45 <fizzie> Just tell your computer to "enhance"; that works at least in TV series.
14:47:22 <augur> random overcaffeinated fact: potatoes are a member of the nightshade family and as such their leaves are incredibly toxic to humans. while the spuds themselves contain very small amounts of toxin, they do contain /some/ toxin, and despite its incredible improbability it is possible to die from eating a potatoe
14:47:42 <ehird> it's possible to die from the cyanide in an apple too!
14:47:52 <ehird> (if you have just almost enough to die already)
14:47:56 <augur> such cases often occur when potatoes for a large part of a persons diet, and eating large quantities of potato in one sitting increases the risk of death
14:48:36 <GregorR> RICE RULES POTATOS ARE SUCK
14:48:59 <augur> japanese sticky rice is absolutely delicious
14:51:20 <augur> the important parts of a nuclear bomb are called the "physics package", in acknowledgement of the fact that nuclear bombs use physics to blow shit up.
14:51:58 <ehird> augur: as opposed to regular bombs
14:52:01 <ehird> which don't use physics to blow shit up
14:52:20 <augur> those use chemistry!
14:52:31 <ehird> which isn't dictated by the laws of physics.
14:52:44 <ehird> augur: clearly we need ’bombs, which use ’pataphysics to blow shit up
14:53:02 <ehird> hm wait is it ’ or just '
14:53:11 <ehird> probably ’pataphysics
14:53:33 <augur> i dont reember where thats from but i recognize it
15:07:04 <GregorR> So a bomb that's just made of a balloon filled with tacks that you overinflate until it pops, sending tacks flying everywhere ... are we back to a physics package now? :P
15:07:27 <ehird> that would be amazing
15:07:33 <ehird> you could have like 10 billion tacks, easy
15:07:38 <ehird> just make it the size of a mansion
15:07:48 <ehird> GregorR: fill the balloon with expanding gas or something
15:07:50 <ehird> so it pops extra hard
15:08:00 <GregorR> It has to be lighter than air though :P
15:08:20 <ehird> GregorR: nope, you can drop it from a plane
15:08:35 <ehird> just shove it out hard and set up the inflater
15:08:41 <ehird> also put a sharp thing on the bottom
15:08:50 <ehird> so that it pops from inflation and being poked simultaneously
15:08:56 <ehird> when it hits the ground
15:09:21 <ehird> GregorR: i like how it'd be really impressive but not do much more than scratch somebody mildly
15:09:23 <GregorR> If you had the tacks built in to the fabric of the balloon, instead of just sitting in there, you would guarantee maximum distribution.
15:09:25 <ehird> *mildly scratch sometbody
15:09:49 <GregorR> If you were like "OMG look up, there are tacks coming at us!"
15:10:00 <ehird> that's what i look for in a mansion-sized bomb that requires a plane at an exact altitude to work
15:10:09 <ehird> the ability to poke eyes out if you're unlucky
15:11:10 <GregorR> My version is still not mansion-sized :P
15:11:25 <ehird> GregorR: you need a shitload of tacks to do much damage
15:11:29 <ehird> considering how much they'll spread
15:11:42 <ehird> so about 10 billion
15:11:48 <GregorR> Or, it'll just have to be really well-aimed and explode low.
15:11:51 <ehird> could poke out like 5 eyes if you're lucky
15:11:58 <ehird> GregorR: but we're dropping this on a city!
15:12:10 <ehird> it's the battle of mild annoyance of the enemy
15:12:19 <ehird> their retaliation was to send a bunch of birds over here to poop on us
15:12:53 <GregorR> Here's my thought: You toss an inflating balloon ready to burst full of tacks into the bunker of the enemy. They're all like "aw shit if I pop that it's gonna be sucky, get a bucket--*KABOOOM*--OW MY FUCKING EYES"
15:13:56 <ehird> GregorR: okay another idea
15:13:59 <ehird> gigantic water balloon
15:14:00 <GregorR> Anyway, I was really just looking for any way to make an explosion that was non-nuclear and non-chemical :P
15:14:11 <ehird> you just drop it on your enemy
15:14:16 <ehird> and they have to go dry themselves off
15:14:35 <ehird> GregorR: it probably counts as chemical to a degree
15:14:53 <GregorR> It's just fluid dynamics maaaaaaaaaaaaan
15:15:36 <ehird> http://www22.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=father%27s+brother%27s+nephew%27s+cousin%27s ;; I wonder how Wolfram Alpha reacts to incest
15:17:01 <ehird> darn "parents brother" just picks one
15:18:08 <GregorR> ... why is the probability of sharing a dominant trait with a sibling less than the frequency in the population ...
15:18:54 <GregorR> In fact, that graph seems to be the same for absolutely any relationship I enter.
15:19:32 <ehird> http://www22.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=brother%27s+brother%27s+brother%27s+brother%27s+mother%27s+brother%27s+mother%27s+brother%27s+son%27s+brother%27s+son
15:19:38 <ehird> Bother bother b(r)other!
15:19:52 <ehird> I like how it's second cousin
15:20:01 <ehird> "Oh, my second cousin! Hi!"
15:20:10 <ehird> "Well, we have a few people between us..."
15:20:19 <GregorR> At what "blood relationship fraction" does sex become OK? :P
15:20:36 <ehird> GregorR: iirc it's okay to breed with your second cousin
15:20:39 <ehird> and might actually be genetically beneficial
15:20:45 <ehird> i think second cousin
15:21:01 <ehird> GregorR: so uh, 1.5625% :P
15:22:31 <ehird> GregorR: People On The Internet say that perhaps fucking your first cousin is even better
15:23:05 <ehird> http://www22.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tenth+cousin
15:23:11 <ehird> 0% blood relationship!
15:24:46 <Slereah> ehird has a rounding error
15:24:54 <ehird> A very minor rounding error :P
15:25:37 <GregorR> Alternatively, one can look at "blood relationship" as "percentage of identical DNA"
15:25:47 <GregorR> In which case all humans are >99% blood related.
15:25:58 <ehird> We're all inbreeding.
15:26:03 <ehird> You can't outbreed. :P
15:26:07 <GregorR> We should be having sex with ... trees?
15:26:14 <ehird> if the same species somehow evolved independently
15:26:18 <ehird> on completely isolated halves of the world
15:26:22 <ehird> without ever breeding together or even touching
15:26:29 <ehird> then they could have sex and it wouldn't be inbreeding
15:26:35 <ehird> they themselves would be the product of inbreeding
15:26:57 <ehird> so two people of the same species would have to independently, unrelatedly spontaneously come into existence
15:27:03 <ehird> that would be outbreeding
15:27:06 <ehird> Slereah: uhh, that's incest.
15:27:17 <fizzie> "We're all inbreeding" sounds to me more being about some sort of channel-wide orgy.
15:27:22 <ehird> Slereah: you're from the same family?
15:27:25 <ehird> if you're cloned you're identical
15:27:29 <ehird> it's still the same clump of atoms
15:27:35 <ehird> doesn't matter how it came about
15:27:45 <Slereah> If aliens with pretty much the same genetic code aren't family, why would a construct with a similar genetic code be our family?
15:27:50 <ehird> for all we know the universe does "for all atoms, atoms[i] = random()" every planck time
15:28:06 <ehird> fizzie: that would be OK too
15:29:17 <Slereah> But random() is only pseudo random dude
15:29:35 <ehird> statistical analysis seems to suggest not :P
15:29:48 <Slereah> Depends what you mean by random
15:30:07 <ehird> Slereah: analysis of the nuclear decay of atoms shows it to be of exceptional randomosity from our point of view
15:30:39 <Slereah> But it is not the sauce of random()!
15:30:47 <ehird> "Unfortunately, they are proposing to manage all of these increased expenses the same way the Nazis did -- by killing sick and old people." —reddit
15:30:57 <ehird> It's so unfortunate.
15:34:10 <ehird> From the same person:
15:34:12 <ehird> "I'm really sorry but..what if I'm right, and you are a Nazi, and just don't know it?"
15:34:24 <ehird> (after calling someone a nazi and being called out on it)
15:34:33 <ehird> GregorR: You kill babies.
15:35:25 <Slereah> The first step to salvation is admitting that you are a nazi
15:35:49 <ehird> "I always used to be firmly for world government, but recently I have seen a lot of people saying right now we have kind of a secret world empire and that they are really evil people that plan on eliminating free speech and killing 2/3 of the world population (to save the environment or something).[…]I'm not for *that* kind of evil world government."
15:35:55 <ehird> He prefers the fluffy, kind evil world government.
15:36:07 <ehird> ([…] contains… a newline, and nothing else.)
15:37:58 <ehird> The funny thing about these people is how good they are at self-delusion… kind of like the rapture people… it hasn't happened yet because they're still grooming us for it. And again. And again, again, again.
15:38:19 <Slereah> Are you some kind of nazi ehird
15:38:26 <ehird> Yes. A nazi of LOVE.
15:39:02 <Slereah> Will you send grumpy people to concentration camps?
15:39:39 <ehird> Someone else commenting on one of his insane posts: [[I'm glad to see this being posted outside of /r/conspiracy because the writing is on the wall and has been for years now.]]
15:39:43 <ehird> Just like all the other conspiracies!
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15:47:34 <oerjan> <ehird> omg, his ARMS are naked in it
15:47:49 <oerjan> it's the new Michelle Obama look, i read about it in the paper today
15:47:51 <ehird> hey i just came up with that in 3 seconds
15:48:41 <oerjan> ehird: i believe there is prior art. involving leslie nielsen and some homocidal maniac.
15:49:00 <ehird> it was... a joke... as a reference
15:49:50 <ehird> <Whoopi Goldberg, on the moon landing> Who shot the footage? 'Cause, I mean, you see the two astronauts[…]
15:49:56 <ehird> FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
15:51:21 <oerjan> and everyone knows they didn't have timer technology in 1969.
15:51:37 <oerjan> unless, WAIT, maybe they got it from those roswell aliens!
15:52:18 <oerjan> it all makes sense now. they really _did_ go to the moon, but they secretly used alien technology!
15:52:37 <ehird> CHIMPANZEE INVESTIGATORS
15:53:41 <ehird> THAT'S A CHIMPANZEE
15:53:43 <ehird> SHAPED LIKE A MOON
15:54:52 <oerjan> the mother of all chimpanzees
15:56:59 <oerjan> <GregorR> I'm glad I prefer rice. <-- i've read that badly treated rice is a major source of food poisoning
15:57:37 <oerjan> never store it for long in room temperature after cooking
15:58:36 <oerjan> <ehird> augur: clearly we need .bombs, which use .pataphysics to blow shit up
15:59:10 <ehird> you jewnicode hitler
15:59:51 <oerjan> that would be 'terrorism
16:00:16 <ehird> we need ’pataprogramming
16:00:20 <ehird> it's modifying the metaprograms.
16:01:50 <oerjan> <ehird> GregorR: i like how it'd be really impressive but not do much more than scratch somebody mildly
16:02:56 <oerjan> hm those would be a pain to put in a balloon without premature popping
16:03:25 <ehird> pop a cap^Wballoon
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16:20:39 <oerjan> GregorR: i take it you are really fond of food poisoning.
16:22:05 <oerjan> i guess technically if a wasp stings while you're eating it, it can count as both
16:22:34 <GregorR> Anyway, I tend to eat rice, y'know, immediately after cooking it?
16:22:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
16:22:51 <GregorR> Whereas wasps of course must be eaten raw and living.
16:23:21 <GregorR> You just tug out their stinger and *munch munch munch*
16:23:32 <ehird> the stinger is the best part
16:24:11 -!- GregorR-L has joined.
16:24:41 <GregorR-L> Although raw is the proper way, they're pretty good cooked in oil too.
16:25:43 <ehird> 16:23 ehird: no man
16:25:43 <ehird> 16:23 ehird: the stinger is the best part
16:26:16 <ehird> just take an antidote. but it's so crunchy and sweet!
16:26:29 <GregorR-L> I've eaten a mosquito before. In fact, I think I then immediately came in here and said "lawl I ate a mosquito"
16:26:53 <ehird> "Bees and wasps are OK eaten after a good boiling. The poison is basically a protein which disassembles at boiling temperatures. The stinger softens. Pounding them before boiling is effective. Bee and Wasp Larvae are delicious!"
16:27:07 <ehird> "Alternately, you could put the wasp in the freezer until became docile with the cold. You might not even have to remove the stinger that way."
16:43:03 <ehird> Scammy site overing webhosting with 50GB of storage for $6.95/mo
16:43:10 <ehird> You gotta know that shit grows on trees.
16:43:17 <ehird> Cheap Website Hosting
16:43:19 <ehird> Cheap hosting plan:
16:43:21 <ehird> - 1500,000 MB of storage
16:43:23 <ehird> That's just ridiculous.
16:43:34 <oerjan> i didn't know that. i though it came out of butts.
16:43:49 <ehird> if they mean , as in separator
16:43:52 <ehird> then that's almost 1.5TB
16:43:56 <ehird> if they mean it as in decimal
16:44:00 <ehird> then who the fuck says 1500.000?
16:45:01 <Deewiant> 1.500.000 commonly means 15 * 10^5
16:45:25 <ehird> also if it means 1500 then that's less than the cheaper plan
16:45:41 <ehird> Deewiant: but there's no dot in this
16:45:51 <ehird> "1500,000 MB" is either 1.5TB of a really stupid way of saying 1500 MB
16:46:02 <Deewiant> I was semi-responding to ( ehird) then who the fuck says 1500.000?
16:46:26 <augur> ehird, its not stupid, its very precise
16:46:28 <Deewiant> Maybe you might have 1500 MB + 200 bytes
16:46:44 <ehird> actually 0.001mb = kb
16:46:48 <Deewiant> So they specify how precise it is
16:46:49 <ehird> so you couldn't express 200 bytes with three
16:46:54 <ehird> augur: yes but this site is ridiculously loose with language
16:46:57 <ehird> like all scammy ultra-cheap hosting sites
16:47:11 <Deewiant> ehird: So they say it's guaranteed to not be 1 kilobyte over 1500 MB
16:47:16 <Deewiant> But it might be 200 bytes more
16:47:19 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes, but dude,
16:47:39 <ehird> Deewiant: That's less storage space than the plan that costs one dollar less.
16:47:49 <ehird> The whole site is just a fuckfest XD
16:48:04 <Deewiant> I wouldn't be surprised if that other one were a typo
16:48:28 <ehird> i wanna know how they profit off 1.5TB for less than $8/mo!
16:48:35 <ehird> (Answer: by not giving you 1.5TB.)
16:50:13 <GregorR-L> Who could actually USE 1.5TB? What they actually give you is "unless everybody starts using it at once, we'll have that much space free for your files"
16:50:28 <GregorR-L> It's like how a bank doesn't actually have enough cash for everybody to withdraw everything at once.
16:51:08 <AnMaster> ehird, the computer arrived. I will fetch it at the local post office in a few hours.
16:51:30 <ehird> AnMaster: it's actually a bobcat
16:51:38 <ehird> GregorR-L: …I could easily use 1.5TB…
16:52:03 <AnMaster> ehird, is this joke a reference to something?
16:52:11 <ehird> AnMaster: No, it really is a bobcat.
16:54:46 <oerjan> AnMaster: http://xkcd.com/325/
16:56:02 <oerjan> great alt/title text, too
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16:57:26 <ehird> AnMaster: btw, you'll need to change fontconfig settings to 129 dpi.
16:57:33 <ehird> otherwise text will be way too small.
16:57:48 <ehird> is it 15.4 or 15.6 inch
16:57:54 <ehird> if 15.6 (shut up augur), then 127
16:58:05 <AnMaster> what do you mean "shut up augur"?
16:58:26 <ehird> okay technically 128.65
16:58:30 <ehird> but you can't really do that.
16:58:52 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm going to bother about that once I got stuff like partitioning, encryption and so on done...
16:59:14 <ehird> AnMaster: i doubt you'll even be able to read the text without straining at such a wrong dpi setting
16:59:56 <AnMaster> ehird, installing arch uses the linux vt though
17:00:02 <AnMaster> so about zero I can do at that point about it
17:00:14 <ehird> P.S. it will also catch on fire if you don't additionally turn on RGB antialiasing, and set hinting to "light")
17:00:22 <AnMaster> I tried yesterday with virtualbox
17:00:56 <AnMaster> (that was when I found out virtualbox assert()ed on a guest with 2.6.30 kernel...)
17:01:49 <ehird> assert()ing is pretty regular :P
17:02:16 <ehird> AnMaster: I think you mean "assert() failed".
17:04:03 <AnMaster> ehird, btw a fun thing: my cd/dvd drive burns perfectly fine CDs that k3b claims failed the verification pass. But using dd to dump the cd and comparing it to the iso show no differences. And they work perfectly too
17:04:17 <ehird> AnMaster: k3b will be more nuanced
17:04:20 <AnMaster> on another drive I attached to test with, k3b doesn't claim they fail.
17:04:21 <ehird> cds aren't really digital
17:04:24 <ehird> scratches, skips etc
17:04:34 <ehird> AnMaster: the drive might be bad
17:05:27 <ehird> yes, in all other aspects
17:05:37 <AnMaster> ehird, even burning using plain cdrecord
17:05:46 <ehird> a tv that can't display images works in all other aspects too :p
17:06:04 <AnMaster> ehird, the cds actually work though, Even in other drives.
17:06:16 <ehird> Right now they do.
17:06:22 <ehird> Anyway, the drive's _reading_ might be fucked up.
17:06:26 <ehird> Thus causing the errors.
17:07:11 <AnMaster> ehird, hm, dumping it with dd reading with the same drive shows no difference so I'm not sure how it would be messed up
17:07:41 <ehird> AnMaster: Scratched disks read perfectly too, sometimes. But not always.
17:07:48 <AnMaster> and the only times cdparanoia complained was when the cd used had scratches. And it likes to complain about things.
17:07:49 <ehird> Anyway, the DISC COULD BE FINE. The drive just might be READING it wrong.
17:07:59 <AnMaster> ehird, no visible scratches on this completely new cd-r...
17:08:04 <ehird> IT WAS AN EXAMPLE!
17:08:15 <AnMaster> but I want to find the real cause
17:08:17 <ehird> You seem to think CDs and CD drives are like USB sticks; a bit's either one or zero and the only errors can be logical writing or reading errors.
17:08:20 <ehird> It doesn't work like that.
17:09:14 <AnMaster> ehird, indeed it doesn't. But what sort of error is it? k3b doesn't tell me
17:21:46 <AnMaster> oerjan, btw IWC was quite funny today IMO
17:24:56 <ehird> AnMaster: that's lame, ELER did it before
17:25:27 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm sure a lot of comics has done it before
17:25:38 <ehird> eler does meta the best though
17:25:43 <ehird> i never meta eler comic i didn't like
17:25:57 <ehird> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/
17:26:02 <ehird> Everybody Loves Eric [S] Raymond.
17:26:05 <AnMaster> oh the one that updates once / year or so
17:26:23 <ehird> hey, it got once a month or so in ’07!
17:26:43 <ehird> although there were no updates in ’08 :)
17:26:58 <ehird> 1; the current one
17:27:09 <ehird> basically the last one metaed :)
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17:39:14 <oerjan> AnMaster: hilarious, wasn't it.
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17:53:00 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric.
17:53:41 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
17:53:51 <ehird> "In an ironic twist on Mapua artist Roger Griffiths' protest withdrawal of his $190,000 savings in $20 notes from Westpac yesterday, the money was today back with Westpac.
17:53:53 <ehird> Mr Griffiths deposited the cash at the Nelson Building Society in Richmond, but because NBS banks with Westpac, it has deposited the money there."
17:54:04 -!- ehird has set topic: Nostalgia is dead! Which is why we don't link to the logs any more. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
17:54:29 <ehird> The bit I made up or the bit I didn't?
17:54:42 <GregorR-L> Nothing you make up is funny. OHHHH BURN
17:55:26 <oerjan> Funny make up is nothing, you.
17:56:42 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: [Носталгија Ареа] #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
17:58:01 <GregorR-L> Wonderfully, Google Translate can (incorrectly) detect that that Serbian is Macedonian, but can't translate it to English :P
17:58:15 <oerjan> i was wondering about the j...
18:08:08 <oerjan> no, definitely cyrillic based
18:08:27 <oerjan> but with that strange j mixed in
18:08:54 <AnMaster> <oerjan> AnMaster: hilarious, wasn't it. <-- indeed
18:10:04 <GregorR-L> oerjan: And "Apea" entirely in latin script :P
18:10:29 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, what does that phrase mean?
18:10:57 <GregorR-L> "erbian is the best example of synchronic digraphia. Both Latin and Cyrillic alphabets are widely used in Serbia in a large variety of contexts, and most people are literate in both scripts."
18:11:01 <oerjan> GregorR-L: except Apea is also perfectly valid cyrillic afaik
18:11:33 <oerjan> and it makes more sense that way
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18:41:06 <GregorR-L> `translate Me gusta Google Translate!
18:41:40 <GregorR-L> Hello inexplicable added symbol :P
18:41:42 <ehird> GregorR-L: add `translateto
18:41:49 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Use: translate <text>' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ wget --user-agent="" \ \ 'http://translate.google.com/translate_t?text='"$QUERY"'&sl=auto&tl=en' \ \ -O - | \ grep result_box | \ perl -pe 's/^.*result_box
18:41:58 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/translate
18:41:58 <ehird> `paste bin/translate
18:41:59 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1342
18:42:15 <oklopol> GregorR: actually "mit vittua" means "weird symbol, what the fuck"
18:43:04 <oerjan> `translate Kefir mjølk, kefir ikkje kaffi?
18:43:05 <HackEgo> Kefir Mj LK, Kefir not coffee?
18:43:33 <oklopol> Deewiant: i doubt that'd help much
18:43:41 <GregorR-L> Stupid HackEgo not being psychic :P
18:43:45 <ehird> `run wget http://pastie.org/557942.txt?key=qjidtjokinumzi74zrs0w -O bin/translateto; echo 'translateto en "$@"' > bin/translate
18:43:56 <ehird> `translate mitä vittua
18:44:11 <GregorR-L> `fetch http://pastie.org/557942.txt?key=qjidtjokinumzi74zrs0w
18:44:11 <HackEgo> GNU Wget 1.11.4, a non-interactive network retriever. Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. Startup: -V, --version display the version of Wget and exit. -h, --help print this help. -b, --background go to background after startup. -e, --execute=COMMAND execute a `.wgetrc'-style command. Logging and input file: -o, --output-file=FILE
18:44:12 <HackEgo> http://: Invalid host name.
18:44:20 <ehird> `run fetch http://pastie.org/557942.txt?key=qjidtjokinumzi74zrs0w -O bin/translateto; echo 'translateto en "$@"' > bin/translate
18:44:52 <oerjan> `translate Immer mit dem Unicode!
18:45:09 <ehird> `run fetch http://pastie.org/557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg -O bin/translateto; echo 'translateto en "$@"' > bin/translate
18:45:14 <ehird> `translate im a bitch lol
18:45:31 <GregorR-L> ehird: fetch cannot be run in 'run', it's a builtin, not a command.
18:45:39 <ehird> `fetch http://pastie.org/557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg
18:45:39 <HackEgo> 2009-07-24 17:45:39 URL:http://pastie.org/557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg [338/338] -> "557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg" [1]
18:45:42 <HackEgo> 557942.txt?key=qjidtjokinumzi74zrs0w \ 557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg \ bin \ paste \ quotes \ share \ tmpdir.26894
18:45:52 <ehird> `rm 557942.txt?key=qjidtjokinumzi74zrs0w
18:46:00 <ehird> `run mv 557945.txt?key=qd0f5hgnhxg4isykm3wfg bin/translateto
18:46:06 <ehird> `run echo 'translateto en "$@"' > bin/translate
18:46:12 <ehird> `translate gutten tag
18:46:29 <ehird> `run chmod +x bin/*
18:46:32 <ehird> `translate fuck bitch
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18:46:51 <ehird> <bunny> Help help help help help
18:46:55 <ehird> <bunny> …god damn it
18:46:55 <oerjan> `translate fru Ibsens ripsbusker og andre buskvekster
18:47:06 <oerjan> `translate Como estas?
18:47:08 <ehird> `translate MAYBE IF I TRY IT A FEW MORE TIMES IT'LL START WORKING
18:48:04 <oerjan> `run ls -l bin/translate
18:48:05 <HackEgo> -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 20 Jul 24 17:48 bin/translate
18:48:14 <GregorR-L> ehird: Is your translateto even REMOTELY correct? It just seems wildly wrong.
18:48:43 <GregorR-L> Also, when something is run as `foo bar, everything goes as ONE argument.
18:48:50 <oerjan> GregorR-L: there was a translation error between ehird's brain and keyboard
18:49:04 <ehird> i was working on that
18:49:09 <ehird> `fetch http://pastie.org/557954.txt?key=0hiipgsxhwifd4whcr5wg
18:49:09 <HackEgo> 2009-07-24 17:49:09 URL:http://pastie.org/557954.txt?key=0hiipgsxhwifd4whcr5wg [338/338] -> "557954.txt?key=0hiipgsxhwifd4whcr5wg" [1]
18:49:18 <ehird> `run mv 557954.txt?key=0hiipgsxhwifd4whcr5wg bin/translateto
18:49:21 <ehird> `run chmod +x bin/translateto
18:49:23 <oklopol> stop the nonsense and make it work again.
18:49:28 <ehird> `run translateto fi "hello world"
18:49:37 <ehird> `run translateto de "hello world"
18:49:50 <ehird> `run echo 'translateto en "$@"' >bin/translate
18:49:51 <oklopol> in finnish "moikka maailma :)"
18:49:53 <ehird> `run chmod +x bin/translate
18:49:53 <Deewiant> Yes, translating "hello world" to Finnish is just a matter of capitalizing the words
18:50:00 <ehird> `translate hallo welt
18:50:08 <ehird> well someone fix that.
18:50:20 <Deewiant> ehird: #!/bin/sh or something?
18:50:25 <ehird> Deewiant: no, that's automatic
18:50:31 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ if [ ! "$1" ] \ then \ echo 'Use: translate <text>' \ exit 1 \ fi \ \ QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %` \ \ wget --user-agent="" \ \ 'http://translate.google.com/translate_t?text='"$QUERY"'&sl=auto&tl=en' \ \ -O - | \ grep result_box | \ perl -pe 's/^.*result_box
18:50:34 <ehird> GregorR-L: would you stop that?
18:50:44 <ehird> i'm trying to fix it and you just keep reverting it
18:50:50 <GregorR-L> Because you're needlessly fucking with translate when translateto DOESN'T EVEN WORK YET.
18:50:52 <ehird> Deewiant: he reverted it
18:50:55 <ehird> GregorR-L: yes it does
18:51:00 <ehird> `run translateto de "Hello world"
18:51:06 <GregorR-L> `translateto es This should work without 'run', retard.
18:51:06 <ehird> Clearly it's just hardcoded that result.
18:51:07 <Deewiant> ehird: translate works now, so who cares what's reverted
18:51:16 <ehird> GregorR-L: I see. And who dictated that?
18:51:21 <ehird> Maybe you should write mv(1) to do that, too.
18:51:26 <ehird> I don't think you can use it directly.
18:51:36 <GregorR-L> Otherwise you're typing `run translateto foo "Wow this is a stupid way to translate."
18:51:36 <ehird> Oh, and everything else in /bin.
18:51:53 <ehird> The extra six keypresses will kill us.
18:52:05 <ehird> Never mind, you know, obeying general unix conventions.
18:52:05 <GregorR-L> Heaven forbid you should have to translate something with quotes in it
18:52:12 <ehird> Another character!
18:52:21 <ehird> Woe betide we, the tormented translators.
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18:54:07 <GregorR-L> `translateto fi Behold, magical translation without needless complication.
18:54:08 <HackEgo> Katso, maaginen knns ilman tarpeetonta monimutkaisuutta.
18:54:27 <GregorR-L> `translate Katso, maaginen käännös ilman tarpeetonta monimutkaisuutta.
18:54:28 <HackEgo> See, magical K NPV s without unnecessary complexity.
18:54:40 <ehird> GregorR-L: why don't you just remove the arbitrary command execution of hackego so that you never have to revert people who use such uncouth interface practices as that of any standard UNIX tool?
18:54:41 <GregorR-L> That's some pretty magical KÃ € Ã € ¶ NPV.
18:54:46 <Deewiant> `translateto en Katso, maaginen käännös ilman tarpeetonta monimutkaisuutta.
18:54:47 <HackEgo> See, magical K NPV s without unnecessary complexity.
18:55:17 <GregorR-L> ehird: Things in HackEgo's bin directory are not unix commands. It's that simple. They are commands run on UNIX, but they are not intended to follow UNIX conventions. If they were, then `addquote would be a HUGE pain in the arse.
18:55:40 <ehird> and the solution to this is to rampantly revert my changes before I have even a second to attempt to change it
18:55:49 <ehird> very hackable bot you got there
18:55:59 <AnMaster> ehird, I just thought of a slogan you would love:
18:56:18 <ehird> AnMaster: fsvo love equal to shit
18:57:13 <Deewiant> http://www.google.com/search?q=fsvo
18:57:44 <AnMaster> &/)&¤%( why are unpacking instructions at the *bottom* of a package!?
18:58:36 <AnMaster> inside a plastic shrinkwrap too
19:00:52 <oerjan> plastic shrinkwrap is clearly a torture instrument
19:04:00 <AnMaster> now lets see what vista is like
19:04:05 <AnMaster> it is what is preinstalled on it
19:04:11 <AnMaster> I want to try it for the lulz first
19:05:15 <AnMaster> vista rebooted itself first thing?
19:05:30 * ehird bets AnMaster doesn't have a wireless router
19:05:52 * GregorR-L bets AnMaster IS a wireless router.
19:05:58 <AnMaster> ehird, I do have wlan. But it preferred to hook up to the neighbour's unprotected network
19:06:12 <ehird> That is a good policy.
19:06:44 <ehird> AnMaster: because it doesn't involve entering a key.
19:06:56 <ehird> Presumably your WLAN is protected.
19:07:06 <AnMaster> ehird, yes, and not announced either
19:07:06 <FireFly> It probably took the first unsecure network, sorted by highest connection
19:07:08 <ehird> It shouldn't assume you know the key, but it wants interwebs at all time.
19:07:09 <FireFly> To make stuff easier for you
19:07:27 <FireFly> As a non-techsavvy user, that is
19:08:45 <AnMaster> vista doesn't accept *not* storing a password reminder thingy
19:09:16 <ehird> AnMaster: which vista version does it have?
19:09:27 <ehird> No, like the edition.
19:09:32 <ehird> There's Vista, which sucks, and there's Vista, which is utterly fucking terrible.
19:09:43 <ehird> The latter one is, like... anything but Ultimate.
19:09:56 <Deewiant> Home premium is perfectly sufficient
19:10:10 <Deewiant> Seriously, Ultimate has pretty much nothing on top of it :-P
19:10:21 <ehird> what about the bill gates signed editint??!!>!??!?!o
19:10:24 <Asztal> Windows Ultimate was supposed to have downloadable extras, but ended up with just DreamScene, which is useless
19:10:37 <Asztal> especially so on a laptop
19:11:03 <AnMaster> anyway... it isn't like I will *use* vista
19:11:21 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes you will, you said your university requires it.
19:11:33 <ehird> "Windows DreamScene is a utility that allows videos and other optimized animations to be used as desktop wallpapers. It is one of the Windows Ultimate Extras."
19:11:54 <AnMaster> ehird, since virtualbox has 3D acceleration now I doubt it will be a major issue
19:12:26 <ehird> Like, without warning?
19:13:10 <AnMaster> ehird, like after two minutes with "busy cursor" after it asked me to enter all that info...
19:13:35 <AnMaster> ARGH boot sound is bad enough in XP
19:14:10 <AnMaster> anyway: impression so far: ugly
19:14:32 <ehird> business doesn't even have aero does it
19:15:42 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista_editions#Comparison_chart
19:15:52 <ehird> and starter edition!
19:16:02 <ehird> Microsoft also makes another variant of Windows Vista Ultimate available to raise awareness of AIDS in Africa: WINDOWS VISTA (PRODUCT) RED. This edition is available pre-installed on select Dell computers and also through The Ultimate Steal.
19:16:17 <ehird> They should have called it "Windows Vista, AIDS Edition"
19:16:27 <ehird> It's more direct. It'd sell like hot cakes!
19:16:47 <ehird> By "hot cakes" I mean assholes.
19:16:52 <ehird> And, like, selling = penis.
19:17:30 <AnMaster> "Lenovo recommends you register your computer so we can give you better support and help you get as much as possible out of your Lenvo computer"
19:18:33 <ehird> AnMaster: You mean like every other computer manufacturer?
19:19:07 <AnMaster> ehird, wouldn't know. Since several years I only have either recycled or home built computers
19:19:16 -!- atrapado has joined.
19:19:23 <ehird> Recycled computer! Bits of your case become your CPU.
19:19:29 <ehird> Your graphics card is made out of your old mouse.
19:19:44 <ehird> The memory is made out of STARVING AFRICAN CHILDREN.
19:19:47 <AnMaster> ehird, recycled as in: take old computers someone else is going to throw away when they get a new
19:19:51 <AnMaster> they work very well still often
19:20:07 <AnMaster> but very good for stuff like nfs server or whatever
19:20:10 <ehird> Computers generally do work unless they're broken.
19:20:46 <AnMaster> ok. Summary of vista's design: ugly
19:21:26 <ehird> I much prefer Fisher Price XP.
19:21:38 <AnMaster> summary of vista's speed: Slow as fuck. But maybe that is because it is first boot
19:21:47 <AnMaster> on XP I always use the 2000-style theme
19:21:53 <AnMaster> (by stopping the "theme" service)
19:22:27 <ehird> AnMaster: You know that you can do that in settings?
19:22:30 <ehird> Without stopping the theme service?
19:22:45 <ehird> Anyway, lemme guess, the harddrive is 5400rpm?
19:22:50 <AnMaster> ehird, but stopping the service is a good idea when you run it in a VM with 300 MB
19:22:52 <ehird> Vista is slow, but that's gonna compound it a lot.
19:23:11 <AnMaster> ehird, 7200 RPM on the model they had at home. Only 160 GB though
19:23:26 <ehird> Lenovo have a store in AnMaster's house.
19:23:26 <AnMaster> as for the extra 2 GB they are going to arrive on Monday it seems
19:23:59 <AnMaster> ah seems like windows update is finally no longer a hack inside internet explorer
19:24:05 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
19:24:24 <ehird> It wasn't in XP service pack 3, either, IIRC.
19:24:47 <AnMaster> ehird, ah... I stopped using XP before that
19:26:09 <AnMaster> ok. Now the infamous asking for permission under vista started
19:26:17 <AnMaster> it asks if I want Java Updater to be allowed
19:26:27 <AnMaster> but it doesn't seem to say *allowed to do what*
19:26:42 <Deewiant> Do something that needs your permission, of course!
19:27:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, wouldn't it be a good idea to say *what* said thing was
19:27:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Yes, it certainly would
19:27:47 <Deewiant> For the record I disabled that misfeature on my first day of Vista, IIRC
19:27:53 <AnMaster> Deewiant, is it always like that under vista btw?
19:28:00 <AnMaster> that it doesn't say what it wants to do
19:28:03 <Deewiant> Beats me; like said, I don't use it
19:28:08 <ehird> AnMaster: btw, you're probably running under an admin account.
19:28:12 <ehird> you should, like, fix that.
19:28:19 <ehird> ...or just wipe the vista install because who wants it
19:28:29 <AnMaster> I just want to see how wtf it is
19:28:43 <AnMaster> I'm going to install xp in virtualbox later
19:29:06 <AnMaster> ehird, costs more money than using existing non-OEM cd
19:29:14 <ehird> Isn't the RC still free?
19:29:21 <AnMaster> ok win update wants to download 551 MB
19:29:28 <ehird> Anyhoo, the software distributor $torrent_site.com has always been very cheap for me.
19:29:30 <AnMaster> ehird, won't that be disabled later on?
19:29:35 <ehird> Free, actually, now I think about it.
19:30:32 <ehird> oklopol: don't cybersex AnMaster
19:30:40 <AnMaster> oklopol, can't easily atm. Since mouse is connected to the laptop and I'm using xchat because I was doing DCC a while ago
19:30:57 <AnMaster> oklopol, if it is about the music: I downloaded it but haven't yet had time to listen to it
19:31:12 <ehird> It's 40 seconds long.
19:31:19 <ehird> You're just scared of oklochest.
19:31:30 <oklopol> yeah i just made sure you got that, it was such hard work to record it.
19:31:44 <AnMaster> ehird, I actually watched a few secs to make sure wmv worked
19:31:58 <ehird> It's chest at the end.
19:32:08 <AnMaster> but I couldn't use headphones then due to just having showered
19:32:28 <ehird> You can't deny it!
19:32:39 <AnMaster> ok it seems vista still fails to handle connecting the same USB device to different usb ports well
19:32:42 <oklopol> MY PENIS MUST BE BIGGER THAN I THOUGH
19:32:51 <AnMaster> that is just silly under windows
19:32:59 <ehird> oklopol: yes also your neck connects directly to that
19:33:02 <ehird> what's up with that
19:33:05 <ehird> also your arms attach to it
19:33:09 <ehird> also it has no head
19:33:18 <ehird> how did they circumcise it incidentally
19:33:20 <ehird> weirdest penis i ever seen
19:33:43 <AnMaster> ehird, connect an USB mouse of whatever to a system running windows
19:33:51 <AnMaster> it takes a few seconds to install a driver if it is first time
19:33:58 <ehird> ...not for a mouse
19:34:09 <AnMaster> ehird, um yes. And this is a MS mouse...
19:34:28 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway. Reconnect it to a different USB port on the computer... Now it will take the long "installing" thing again
19:34:36 <oklopol> my penis is circumcised? they don't really do that in finland, so doesn't sound likely.
19:34:40 <AnMaster> but it wouldn't if it was the same
19:34:51 <ehird> oklopol: well hey i didn't see any foreskin to that neck/arm attachment thing without a head
19:34:52 <AnMaster> it is still like that under vista
19:34:55 <ehird> i'm just going on the evidence
19:35:27 <AnMaster> ehird, might need a computer with different host units for each port, instead of one host thingy and an internal hub
19:35:34 <AnMaster> cheaper computers often have/had the latter
19:35:54 <AnMaster> ehird, because I never had problems when moving between ports on the same external hub
19:35:57 <ehird> i wouldn't call thinkpads "cheap"
19:35:59 <ehird> more like "expensive"
19:36:17 <AnMaster> ehird, but point is, you wouldn't notice it on a *cheap* computer
19:36:47 <ehird> i've never used a mouse with a driver really
19:36:57 <AnMaster> ehird, well. other USB ones then
19:37:09 <ehird> no usb sticks have drivers!
19:37:13 <AnMaster> I never seen an USB device this *didn't* apply to
19:37:23 <AnMaster> ehird, yes they do. the generic Mass storage driver
19:37:39 <AnMaster> ehird, and it happens for them too...
19:38:12 <AnMaster> ehird, it is a thingy in the task bar that pops up and says "detecting hardware....", flicks to: "installing driver", flicks to: "done"
19:38:20 <AnMaster> (text from memory and then translated to English)
19:38:22 <ehird> well that's not really installing
19:38:30 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway that is what I referred to
19:38:33 <ehird> that's just HEY YOU CONNECTED A DEVICE
19:38:38 <ehird> which is not a useful indicator, but
19:38:41 <ehird> it's not reinstalling stuff afaik
19:38:49 <AnMaster> ehird, doesn't happen if you connected to *the same usb port* before
19:38:55 <Deewiant> If you've used your mouse without a driver then the pointer on the screen hasn't moved
19:38:57 <AnMaster> but if you *change* usb port it does it again
19:39:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you know what I mean right?
19:39:19 <ehird> Deewiant: i meant one that pops up the add new hardware box
19:39:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and this redetecting just because you use a different usb port is very silly
19:40:41 <AnMaster> why are there some photos on the right side of the screen in vista
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19:41:07 <Deewiant> It's the sidebar or whatever it's called
19:41:17 <Deewiant> And the default widgets that live there
19:41:26 <AnMaster> oh. seems like a parody of the widget thingy in OS X
19:41:38 <ehird> no, it's less stupid than OS X's
19:41:42 <AnMaster> not expose, but something like it
19:41:45 <ehird> with OS X's, it is modal
19:41:47 <ehird> over all other windows
19:41:55 <ehird> so you have to go into dashboard mode, look at whatever widget you want
19:42:00 <ehird> AnMaster: Dashboard
19:42:09 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway one thing: I'm going to salvage the fonts before I delete vista
19:42:20 <ehird> apart from the C* family
19:42:25 <ehird> and you can get those free from microsoft.com
19:42:28 <ehird> in a .cab of some kind
19:42:38 <AnMaster> ehird, iirc you said they were better than XP ones and better tuned to Linux and Windows than the OS X ones iirc?
19:42:40 <ehird> there's a script that downloads it, extracts them and puts 'em in ~/.fonts
19:42:53 <ehird> specifically for these
19:42:59 <ehird> you just do $ ./vista_fonts
19:43:03 <ehird> AnMaster: oh… well,
19:43:10 <ehird> Vista doesn't ship with Helvetica or anything
19:43:20 <ehird> 19:42 AnMaster: ehird, iirc you said they were better than XP ones and better tuned to Linux and Windows than the OS X ones iirc?
19:43:25 <ehird> i'm not sure what this means
19:43:46 <AnMaster> ehird, ah. well you said the OS X ones weren't suited to hinting or something like that
19:43:47 <ehird> there's no good fonts on a default vista other than the C* family, which is on microsoft.com
19:44:00 <ehird> fonts made for windows
19:44:09 <ehird> AnMaster: anyway, you have a 1680x1050 display
19:44:18 <ehird> you'd be insane to hint more than "slight"
19:46:49 <ehird> i mean unless you have a micrometer-thick pen and draw large letter shapes with it then look at it from a distance
19:46:52 <AnMaster> ooh it has a built in lamp for the keyboard above the monitor
19:46:56 <ehird> if that's your thing then i guess more would be cool
19:47:05 <ehird> AnMaster: not as cool as backlit keys :D
19:47:18 <AnMaster> ehird, true. but you can use it as an emergency reading light too
19:48:00 <ehird> AnMaster: why what?
19:48:34 <AnMaster> why about what I said myself the line above
19:48:37 <AnMaster> and I don't have a good answer
19:49:34 <AnMaster> Windows Update: Update 10 of 44 is installing
19:49:55 <ehird> AnMaster: They're silly for only shipping SP1.
19:49:58 <ehird> Is the keyboard any good, btw?
19:50:09 <ehird> I'd assume so, but people complained when Lenovo changed the keyboards (rather expectedly).
19:50:18 <ehird> Apparently if you touch between two keys they sort of buckle together.
19:50:38 <ehird> AnMaster: take product that hasn't changed for, like, decades, try to improve it, RAAAAAAAAAAAR WHY DID YOU CHAAAAANGE IT
19:50:42 <ehird> AnMaster: ok, just bullshit then
19:51:13 <AnMaster> ehird, don't know where it says it
19:51:25 <AnMaster> and not going to take it down to weight it atm
19:51:30 <AnMaster> since it is hooked up to ethernet
19:51:51 <ehird> AnMaster's sense of weight is binary
19:51:55 <ehird> either something's heavy, or it's not
19:52:04 <ehird> A bed? Eh, about as heavy as the Eiffel tower.
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19:52:22 <AnMaster> or to quote the nomes: Aunty Gravy
19:52:32 <AnMaster> (I assume you read those books)
19:52:52 <ehird> augur: I had a physics/coffee-related revelation but forgot.
19:53:04 <AnMaster> ehird, Truckers/Diggers/whatever the third one was called. By Terry Pratchett
19:53:18 <AnMaster> oh... "Wings" I think the name of the third one was
19:53:32 <oklopol> truckers is almost synonymous to diggers
19:53:49 <AnMaster> ehird, then you know what I'm talking about
19:54:02 <ehird> augur: Oh, but I did find something about formalizing Lojban's grammar.
19:54:12 <ehird> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/index.html
19:54:16 <oklopol> i thought Truckers/Diggers/whatever was a very vaguely remembered name
19:54:35 <oklopol> well clearly not, if you read the whole sentence
19:54:44 <oklopol> but i don't really have the time
19:54:46 <AnMaster> ok the size of the touchpad is a bit wth
19:54:50 <ehird> AnMaster: big or small?
19:55:03 <ehird> that's... standard
19:55:07 <ehird> all laptops have wide touchpads
19:55:13 <ehird> or at least all widescreen laptops
19:55:16 <ehird> for obvious reasons
19:55:18 <AnMaster> ehird, should be a bit taller though
19:55:26 <ehird> you just have big hands.
19:55:28 <AnMaster> but yeah there are the trackpoint keys above
19:55:45 <augur> its not so much about formalizing lojbans grammar
19:55:50 <ehird> augur: please address me on the same line. :p
19:55:56 <ehird> augur: and shush, just click the link
19:56:06 <augur> ehird: is more about handling it in well understood linguistic frameworks
19:56:13 <ehird> which that page is about.
19:56:48 <AnMaster> where is the MAC for the wlan in vista?
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19:57:25 <ehird> "AnMaster — because people really desperately want to leech internet off of me, instead of that person without any authentication. Est. 2009."
19:57:47 <fizzie> AnMaster: "ipconfig /all" in the console might show you it.
19:57:48 <AnMaster> ehird, well... when I set it up last year all networks around were using encryption too
19:58:13 <AnMaster> where is the "run..." in the start menu?
19:58:51 <augur> ehird: no, that page is not about that.
19:58:54 <ehird> AnMaster: Wow, and I was just talking about irrational resistance to change.
19:59:12 <ehird> 19:58 AnMaster: IT'S GONE!?
19:59:16 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't irrational. It just means it is a lot harder to use
19:59:36 <ehird> The space it searches in includes the filesystem, yes.
19:59:40 <augur> ehird: how do you figure its got anything to do with existing linguistic frameworks?
19:59:49 <ehird> So it's not, like, a combination; it just follows naturally from search.
19:59:56 <AnMaster> ehird, so you can enter all the commands the same?
20:00:31 <ehird> augur: eh, I don't recall
20:00:35 <ehird> but you complained the grammar was unreadable
20:00:40 <ehird> and that was about fixing that
20:00:41 <augur> its not, dude. its all PEG crap
20:01:19 <AnMaster> I thought you could tap the trackpoint to click
20:01:23 <ehird> AnMaster: you can.
20:01:30 <ehird> AnMaster: install the drivers.
20:01:35 <ehird> synaptic touchpad thingie.
20:01:40 <ehird> maybe on a disc with your computer.
20:01:42 <AnMaster> ehird, it comes preinstalled with lenovo's drivers
20:01:45 <ehird> augur: i detect a dislike of PEG :P
20:01:49 <ehird> AnMaster: go into the settings then
20:01:50 <AnMaster> and scrolling on the side of the touchpad works
20:01:52 <ehird> probably in a tray icon
20:02:03 <augur> partially, but more so, PEG is not adequate for the description of natural language grammars
20:02:05 <AnMaster> ehird, tapping the touchpad works
20:02:29 <augur> ehird: it might be POSSIBLE, but its not /adequate/
20:02:34 <AnMaster> ehird, there are like 20 tray icons
20:02:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Nonsense! Of course tiny unlabeled icons with a huge delay before you can identify them that rearrange, appear and disappear at random is a good UI.
20:03:25 <augur> consider, for instance, that the core aspects of english grammar (nay, _all_ grammar) can adequately be handled by a very small (5-10) rules using a unification grammar
20:03:26 <AnMaster> ehird, they haven't started hiding like in XP yet...
20:03:32 <AnMaster> guess it is just a matter of time though
20:04:02 <AnMaster> "Hardware and sound" <-- odd category in the control panel thingy
20:04:13 <augur> HPSG's core rule set that handles the majority of english is about 4 rules in size.
20:04:32 <ehird> AnMaster: Ah yes, Shakespeare's early draft:
20:04:34 <augur> and these are not rules of enormous size or complexity
20:04:44 <augur> they're very simple rules with no alternations
20:04:45 <ehird> "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow,
20:04:45 <ehird> Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
20:04:47 <ehird> To the last syllable of recorded time,
20:04:49 <ehird> And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
20:04:51 <ehird> The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
20:04:53 <ehird> Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
20:04:55 <ehird> That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
20:04:57 <ehird> And then is heard no more: it is a tale
20:04:59 <ehird> Told by an idiot, full of sound and hardware,
20:05:01 <ehird> Signifying nothing."
20:05:18 <ehird> That had rather more lines than I would prefer.
20:05:22 <AnMaster> why can't you resize cmd.exe *sideways*
20:05:24 <ehird> Shakespeare was clearly no twitterer.
20:05:28 <ehird> AnMaster: You can, in the preference thingies.
20:05:46 <augur> ehird: shakespeare no twitterer, or twitterers no shakespeare?
20:05:48 <ehird> I should tweet Macbeth.
20:06:10 <augur> for, if they had such wondrous things to say would they not have chosen something else?
20:07:04 <ehird> 2mrw*3 comes day2day 2 last part of recorded time and all days lit fools way to death
20:07:11 * AnMaster ponders how to copy the WPA-PSK key...
20:07:19 <ehird> man this toast is great
20:07:24 <ehird> out, out brief candle!!
20:07:31 <ehird> gotta ask the chef how he made this
20:07:34 <ehird> never had better toast in my life
20:07:40 <ehird> imo life's like a shadow. a walking shadow.
20:07:52 <ehird> okay, i said i liked the toast but this porridge is AMAZING
20:08:16 <ehird> AnMaster: By the way, what is the freak mutant top three thingies in http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9297.jpg?
20:08:25 <ehird> 20:07 AnMaster ponders how to copy the WPA-PSK key...
20:09:19 <augur> have you seen the size of those lojban grammar files?
20:09:44 <augur> they're ridiculous!
20:09:44 <ehird> The formalized grammar sucks.
20:09:52 <augur> it sucks because its in PEG
20:10:03 <ehird> It's in EBNF and Yacc.
20:10:21 <augur> natural language is not CF but
20:11:31 <augur> let me give you the core, non-unbounded-dependency parts of HPSG
20:11:44 <ehird> AnMaster: it must be weird having a computer you can pick up more powerful than a heavyweight thing.
20:11:45 <augur> which means the parts that handle all the simple sentences
20:12:18 <ehird> AnMaster: if the laptop is anything like the configuration i assembled it's like 10x more powerful than your sempron desktop
20:12:20 <augur> Head Feature Principle: P[HEAD a] -> H[HEAD a], ...
20:12:28 <ehird> it'd weird me out :P
20:12:47 <augur> (the HEAD feature of the "head daughter" of P must unify with the HEAD feature of P
20:13:07 <augur> (where P is any phrase, and ... denotes the other words in the phrase)
20:13:27 <ehird> augur: you know, I'm not listening
20:14:01 <augur> there were only two more rules, but FINE. :|
20:14:02 <ehird> putty is ... pretty regular
20:14:05 <ehird> augur: well fine then
20:14:08 <ehird> don't wanna leave it incomplete
20:14:11 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: By the way, what is the freak mutant top three thingies in http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/9297.jpg?
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20:14:20 <ehird> Above the actual pad.
20:14:31 <AnMaster> ehird, oh. the click buttons for the trackpoint
20:14:39 <ehird> AnMaster: No... they're below the pad.
20:14:51 <ehird> Or are there two copies, one with an additional middle click button?
20:14:54 <AnMaster> ehird, those are the click bottons for the trackpad
20:14:55 <augur> Valence Principle for Complements: P[COMPS <>] -> H[COMPS <a...z>] a...z
20:15:00 <AnMaster> ehird, not sure what the middle one is for
20:15:00 <ehird> AnMaster: ...they're separate?
20:15:04 <ehird> That's... ridiculous.
20:15:18 <ehird> How do you scroll, anyway? Multitouch?
20:15:20 <ehird> I haven't used many laptops.
20:15:21 <AnMaster> ehird, the middle one pops up some scrolling icon on the cusor
20:15:27 <ehird> AnMaster: that's a windows thing
20:15:30 <ehird> or rather, not inherent
20:15:34 <augur> which says a phrase P with no complement requirements is formed from the combination of the head daughter, requiring comps a...z, with the actual comps a...z
20:15:47 <AnMaster> ehird, the scrolling on the trackpad?
20:15:50 <augur> where <a...z> is a list of feature structures that must unify with a...z
20:15:51 <ehird> AnMaster: try swiping two and three fingers down at the same time
20:15:58 <ehird> you might be able to scroll that way
20:15:58 <AnMaster> well, drag one finger right at the right side
20:16:29 <augur> Valence Principle for Specifiers: P[SPR <>] -> a H[SPR <a>]
20:17:08 <augur> which says a phrase with no requirement for specifiers can be formed by a feature structure a, and the head daughter which requires a feature structure that unifies with a
20:18:06 <augur> sorry, those should be the Head-Complement Rule and the Head-Specifier Rule, respectively x3
20:18:25 <AnMaster> fun it says the key isn't valid
20:18:42 <augur> there are two more rules for non-argument modification of phrases, and for logical conjunction of phrases
20:19:01 <augur> those are relatively minor and not terribly interesting
20:19:35 <augur> so ehird, those few rules actually handle the core of the grammar of english
20:19:44 <augur> or any language you want, really.
20:19:54 <ehird> your mom too though
20:21:23 <AnMaster> ok it seems to work fine atm...
20:21:25 <augur> the head-modifier rule is simply P -> H m[MOD H] (a phrase can look like a head followed by a modifier that requires that kind of head)
20:21:58 <ehird> I don't think it's possible to hate IE 8 and prefer Firefox objectively from first click.
20:22:03 * AnMaster pukes at the new design in firefox 3.5
20:22:04 <ehird> Since, y'know, they look mostly the same.
20:22:13 <ehird> Oh come on. Firefox 3.5 vastly improved the UI.
20:22:19 <ehird> You're just a massive conservative.
20:22:29 <AnMaster> ehird, I still prefer the 1.5 look
20:22:32 <augur> and the conjunction rule is P[SYN a] -> c1[SYN a]...cn[SYN a] x[HEAD conj] cn+1[SYN a]
20:22:36 <ehird> As I said, you're just a massive conservative.
20:23:05 <augur> which just says a phrase with syntactic features a can have a bunch of other constituents with the same syntactic features, the last two separated by a conjunction
20:23:09 <AnMaster> ehird, No. you claimed I was a socialist a few days ago. You can't call me right wing/conservative today
20:23:26 <ehird> You're just inconsistent.
20:23:34 <AnMaster> and windows is installing update 36
20:23:39 <augur> anmaster, he lives in Oceania
20:23:43 <ehird> Admittedly, a socialist who's also rigidly opposed to change is also an idiot, but that's nothing new.
20:23:49 <AnMaster> augur, what is that a reference too
20:24:06 <ehird> Maybe an extra day on top of that too.
20:24:22 <AnMaster> Australia and the islands around there
20:24:24 <ehird> <AnMaster> I remember how to use Google now.
20:24:28 <AnMaster> not used to that name in Swedish
20:24:35 <augur> yes, thats precisely what i mean, anmaster.
20:25:21 <augur> ehird lives in britain, one of the larger islands in the austropolynesian islands.
20:26:05 * pikhq was unaware that Britain was austropolynesian
20:26:16 <AnMaster> now I have a dir called C:\Program Files but shown as C:\Program. And one that is actually named C:\Program
20:26:32 <augur> pikhq: its part of oceania, therefore it must be!
20:29:31 <AnMaster> ehird, what do you think of this wtf?
20:30:49 <AnMaster> can't find key for bios settings hm
20:31:10 * AnMaster guesses and press the usual ones
20:32:18 <AnMaster> also, I created a new account and set the first one to normal user now
20:33:16 <oerjan> clearly, Oceania has always been at war with Sweden.
20:35:58 <AnMaster> oh it is F1 but it doesn't list it
20:37:13 <AnMaster> huh it lists a parallel port? *looks at the computer*
20:37:47 <AnMaster> the computer *does* seem to have a serial port though. Or maybe some mini vga
20:38:02 <AnMaster> there is a display symbol at it
20:38:58 <AnMaster> it isn't the usual size of either anyway
20:39:18 <ehird> that's an apple thing
20:39:32 <AnMaster> ehird, well it isn't the same shape as the apple mini dvi
20:39:49 <ehird> take a pic (your screen w/ camera can bend and rotate arbitrarily right?)
20:41:20 <AnMaster> which seems to be for I/O virtualization
20:41:21 <ehird> all non-entry-level intel chips and all amd chips have virtualization
20:41:31 <ehird> (intel entry = celeron)
20:41:54 <AnMaster> ehird, as opposed to just CPU VT
20:42:24 <pikhq> ... Supported by most every chipset.
20:44:02 <pikhq> ehird: It virtualises the hardware interrupt table and the DMA controller in hardware.
20:46:03 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando").
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20:48:16 <AnMaster> ehird, btw, this does have the fingerprint thing. Not that I'm going to use it
20:48:29 <ehird> it can't -lessen- security
20:48:48 <AnMaster> ehird, yes it can, compare: boot by fingerprint or boot by password
20:49:00 <ehird> that's not using fingerprints
20:49:01 <AnMaster> "require both" doesn't seem to be an option in the bios
20:49:07 <ehird> that's using fingerprints and dropping passwords
20:49:13 <ehird> which is not the same as using fingerprints
20:49:47 <ehird> i'll be the first in line for a brain implant which carries around an authentication key for me
20:49:50 <AnMaster> anyway setup bios setup password and boot password now
20:49:56 <AnMaster> ehird, someone will hack it :D
20:50:00 <ehird> well maybe second in line
20:50:05 <ehird> wouldn't want to risk it after all
20:50:11 <ehird> AnMaster: it'd work like gpg
20:50:19 <ehird> all they could do is steal a message signed by you
20:50:27 <ehird> or encrypted by you
20:50:29 <ehird> and, uhh, big deal :P
20:50:34 <ehird> *pgp; gpg is an implementation
20:50:49 <ehird> yeah i don't see people doing that :-P
20:50:57 <ehird> hacking poop would be a fun job though
20:51:05 <ehird> AnMaster: "Launch missiles"
20:51:13 <AnMaster> ehird, sadly much more boring... PC card ejection thingy
20:51:21 <ehird> It commands the button to be shiny.
20:51:32 <AnMaster> oh windows vista is *configuring* the updates now
20:51:36 <AnMaster> it installed them before rebootinbg
20:51:37 <ehird> You can keep pressing it and it'll still be shiny.
20:51:49 <FireFly> Also, having fingerprint thingy highers the risk that someone who REALLY need to get into your computer cuts of your finger?
20:52:06 <GregorR> Also, MythBusters sez "fingerprint scanners suck. A lot."
20:52:09 <ehird> Put the password first.
20:52:10 <AnMaster> FireFly, it is easy to fake it anyway
20:52:30 <AnMaster> FireFly, just need something I touched. and a laserprinter
20:52:54 <AnMaster> FireFly, anyway, point is: fingerprints aren't very secure
20:53:14 <ehird> FireFly: ask google for a link
20:53:18 <ehird> AnMaster: months, prolly
20:53:20 <ehird> since i've forgotten
20:53:23 <ehird> well okay i don't remember weeks either
20:53:31 <ehird> or for that matter a significant quantity of days
20:53:44 <ehird> i should start using a super-quick note-taking application; my memory is rather volatile
20:53:49 <FireFly> Or maybe an amount of hours?
20:54:05 <ehird> FireFly: sorry, did you say something?
20:54:42 <FireFly> At least IRC has the benefit of logs
20:54:56 <FireFly> Real life needs public logging
20:55:01 <AnMaster> ok: don't rename user you are logged in as
20:55:04 <FireFly> Maybe not too much logging
20:55:27 <FireFly> Why would that affect the bg? :\
20:55:45 <FireFly> It's strange, that's what I said, yeah
20:56:10 <ehird> AnMaster: directory
20:56:32 <ehird> AnMaster: i've never heard of it before sooooo
20:56:45 <ehird> well i broke xp one time by renaming a user i think
20:56:50 <ehird> but i just made a new user
20:57:32 <AnMaster> ehird, currently logged in one was the issue
20:58:06 <AnMaster> and yeah I think it was registry that failed
21:00:34 <GregorR> Apparently you can buy dried bull penis as a chew toy for dogs.
21:01:12 <AnMaster> I thought it was done last time
21:01:18 <AnMaster> but now it is downloading another two updates
21:01:34 <ehird> You are a bit, a service pack and a bit behind.
21:01:57 <AnMaster> ehird, didn't you forgot one comma there
21:02:07 <ehird> The Oxford comma is not standard, no.
21:02:09 <ehird> I do sometimes use it.
21:02:33 <AnMaster> You are a bit (a service pack and a bit) behind."
21:03:25 <AnMaster> ehird, btw about that suspend thing: did you mean it suspends to disk and to ram, and it case of battery running out it is still possible to wake it from disk?
21:03:38 <AnMaster> or do you mean it ends suspend to ram too after a few minutes?
21:03:46 <AnMaster> the former I found out how to do
21:04:19 <AnMaster> windows is shutting down it says
21:04:22 <ehird> AnMaster: it does suspend-to-ram, then while it sits there, writes to disk
21:04:27 <AnMaster> but the disk light is going like mad
21:04:31 <ehird> well it might not shut off
21:04:35 <AnMaster> ehird, hm ok... don't know how to do that
21:04:38 <ehird> since it's like 0.1 watt
21:04:48 <ehird> but there's no reason to just do regular suspend to ram
21:04:52 <ehird> and suspend to disk just takes years
21:04:59 <AnMaster> anyway I read on thinkwiki that disabling WOL can save quite a bit
21:05:14 <AnMaster> why would a laptop need WOL anyway
21:05:41 <ehird> Because they use regular chipsets + some stuff.
21:05:49 <ehird> AnMaster: people use laptops as machines on a desk
21:05:58 <AnMaster> ooh I found the ultrabay ejection thingy
21:06:16 <AnMaster> it is like a small lever that pops out a thingy that you use to pull out the drive
21:08:38 <AnMaster> but really they are running out of keys soon
21:08:48 <AnMaster> why doesn't desktops have that Fn key
21:13:12 * AnMaster hooks bluetooth up to his phone
21:18:25 <AnMaster> where is "My computer" on the desktop
21:18:33 <AnMaster> where is the setting to activate it
21:19:10 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Right-click desktop -> personalize -> change desktop icons
21:20:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, *looks in Swedish windows*
21:20:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh you meant in the right click menu
21:20:53 <AnMaster> seems lenovo replaced the computer icon
21:20:57 <Deewiant> Yeah, "x -> y" tends to imply that y is under x
21:21:12 <AnMaster> with the outline of a laptop in a black circle
21:22:00 <Deewiant> That can presumably be changed, don't ask me how
21:26:58 <AnMaster> something is accessing the disk very bussily
21:28:16 <Deewiant> procmon will tell you if you care
21:28:18 <AnMaster> ok it managed to go to rest when I wanted to shut down very strange
21:28:21 <Deewiant> It's probably the search indexer
21:28:36 <Deewiant> Like an updatedb that constantly runs in the background at low priority
21:28:53 <Deewiant> I disabled the service after it was still going after a couple of months, it started to annoy me
21:29:36 <AnMaster> since a laptop isn't always on, cron won't work well
21:30:05 <Deewiant> I never really search for anything anyway
21:30:43 <AnMaster> how do you get the classical windows login dialog btw? Like "Press Ctrl-Alt-Del to login"
21:31:00 <Deewiant> Beats me, I have this remember my password so I don't get a dialog
21:31:49 <Deewiant> If somebody gets on this machine everything is lost anyway
21:31:59 <Deewiant> I really don't care at that point whether they can login or not :-P
21:33:00 <AnMaster> was just change the theme to the standard one
21:33:07 <AnMaster> then change back the desktop bg
21:34:14 <AnMaster> why does it beep loudly when you plug/unplug power
21:35:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how do you disable the index thingy
21:35:55 <Deewiant> Control panel -> services IIRC
21:36:17 <Deewiant> Alternatively windows explorer has the search settings
21:36:35 <Deewiant> Not sure which one, or is it both
21:40:22 <AnMaster> ok scary. The think admin utils doesn't seem to need you to auth as an admin
21:40:41 <ehird> 21:08 AnMaster: why doesn't desktops have that Fn key
21:41:46 <ehird> http://images.apple.com/keyboard/images/gallery/wired_4_20090306.jpg and http://images.apple.com/keyboard/images/gallery/wireless_1_20070813.jpg
21:41:49 <ehird> AnMaster: all macs
21:42:02 <ehird> for mac pros, you have the option of http://images.apple.com/keyboard/images/gallery/wired_1_20070813.jpg
21:42:13 <ehird> AnMaster: macs are like 10% of the market, soo
21:42:20 <ehird> that's a substantial portion with fn
21:42:39 <Deewiant> But without other modifier keys, so :-P
21:43:24 <ehird> (the place of interest sign)
21:43:35 <AnMaster> `addquote <ehird> Apple = Windows.
21:43:36 <HackEgo> 52|<ehird> Apple = Windows.
21:43:46 <ehird> Deewiant: thank god for that
21:43:48 <Deewiant> You're missing at least one there :-P
21:43:50 <AnMaster> ehird, was great out of context :D
21:43:53 <ehird> the menu key is terribly useless
21:43:58 <ehird> also, you can get kbs without it
21:44:07 <ehird> desktop != pc that's totally windowsy
21:44:11 <AnMaster> ehird, useful, since you remap it to the super key
21:44:20 <ehird> AnMaster: no, you remap command to thta
21:44:25 <ehird> oh wait, no remapping
21:44:27 <ehird> it already is that.
21:44:37 <ehird> anyway, fn control option command shift
21:44:42 <ehird> if i wanted more i'd kill myself
21:44:48 <ehird> AnMaster: option, duh
21:45:08 <Deewiant> On this keyboard I've got two unmapped modifier keys
21:45:18 <Deewiant> Which I could use for something but haven't bothered to figure out what
21:45:31 <ehird> http://www.ap.org/media/images/APnewsregistry.jpg
21:45:31 <ehird> <Associated Press> Let's make bits uncopiable. This way, our outdated, useless business model can be jerked off some more.
21:45:52 <ehird> The image or my commentary?
21:46:28 <pikhq> Yes, because DRM worked so well for the music companies.
21:47:30 <AnMaster> why do they ship a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit system
21:47:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ... 64-bit OSes can run 32-bit code
21:48:22 <pikhq> AnMaster: Because a lot of Windows driver authors hate writing 64-bit drivers.
21:48:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, microkernel and have drivers in userspace
21:48:37 <pikhq> AnMaster: Windows.
21:48:39 <Deewiant> Yeaaah, let's write our own microkernel OS so we can run a 64-bit OS here
21:48:51 <pikhq> Deewiant: NT is nominally a microkernel OS.
21:49:02 <pikhq> (I say "nominally" because its microkernel is not that micro)
21:49:14 <ehird> Microkernels suck.
21:49:14 <AnMaster> pikhq, and it is nominally POSIX compatible too
21:49:26 <pikhq> Many drivers for Vista and up are in userspace.
21:49:35 <pikhq> AnMaster: With Interix, more than nominally.
21:49:38 <ehird> I don't know why you seem to love QNX so much.
21:49:52 <pikhq> Unfortunately, some of the software on it is outdated.
21:50:00 <pikhq> To fix that, you can install Gentoo Prefix on it.
21:50:36 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interix
21:50:36 <AnMaster> <pikhq> To fix that, you can install Gentoo Prefix on it. <-- ARGH
21:50:38 <pikhq> Microsoft's POSIX subsystem.
21:50:50 <AnMaster> that's more wth than Gentoo/FreeBSD
21:51:05 <pikhq> You can also install Debian on it.
21:51:07 <AnMaster> pikhq, not an official project I guess?
21:51:16 <ehird> Hooray for Debian/kFreeBSD.
21:51:24 <pikhq> Gentoo/Windows? Official Gentoo project.
21:51:31 <AnMaster> pikhq, if I did debian I would get *MORE* outdated
21:51:36 <pikhq> Considered "beta", like the rest of Gentoo Prefix, but.
21:51:46 <ehird> AnMaster: Debian unstable is cutting edge.
21:51:49 <pikhq> AnMaster: ... GCC 2?
21:52:16 <pikhq> Interix is fucking outdated.
21:52:36 <pikhq> That's why you install a different userspace on there.
21:52:36 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interix claims it uses 3.3
21:53:08 <pikhq> Debian Stable is really rather up-to-date these days, though.
21:53:28 <pikhq> Tends to ship versions of GCC before Gentoo. XD
21:54:15 <Deewiant> Gentoo is rather slow these days.
21:54:34 <ehird> Gentoo is rather suck……… all days.
21:54:51 <AnMaster> ok.. "ThinkVantage System Update" (some Lenovo thingy) wants to update bios
21:56:00 <AnMaster> or don't you need that nowdays?
21:56:42 <Deewiant> Presumably it has instructions you can follow?
21:56:58 <ehird> AnMaster: CD-Rom or USB stick.
21:57:00 <AnMaster> seems to just install it with no need for going outside windows
21:57:01 <Deewiant> And no, you don't always need that nowadays
21:57:12 <ehird> AnMaster: Zomg! You can do things at kernel-level.
21:57:26 <ehird> augur: you were arguing for a simulation hypothesis right?
21:58:14 <ehird> universe being simulated.
21:59:31 <AnMaster> categories: Critical, Recommended, Optional, Extra, Additional
21:59:37 <AnMaster> what is the difference between the last three?
21:59:55 <pikhq> It's Windows. Abandon all logic, ye who enter here.
21:59:58 <ehird> AnMaster: categories: Maybe This Would Be a Good One, Actually If You Don't Want It That's Fine, Uhh I Think You Might Want This One
22:00:28 <Deewiant> Optional is for crap like dreamscene
22:00:38 <Deewiant> Additional has stuff like language packs
22:01:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no it is in the lenovo update tool
22:01:27 <ehird> Meanwhile, http://thereifixedit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/yoshi-keys.jpg
22:01:38 <AnMaster> extra and additional are both empty
22:01:42 <Deewiant> Well, windows update has something similar
22:02:13 <GregorR> ehird: Well, that's one kind of plug adapter.
22:02:22 <ehird> GregorR: It's a HARDCORE plug adapter.
22:02:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm fine with Critical/Recommended/Optional
22:02:44 <AnMaster> but apart from that all seems unneeded
22:02:54 <AnMaster> and not sure what the point of "optional" is in a update tool
22:03:07 <AnMaster> since that indicates *we want you to install a new software you didn't have before*
22:03:58 <AnMaster> which is not "updating" as such
22:05:51 <AnMaster> btw I don't seethe point of that keyboard light atm... it is dark and the screen itself gives enough light
22:06:21 <ehird> because you turn down the screen backlight e.g. to read a book on screen
22:06:34 <AnMaster> ok cool they have a "zoom screen" thingy on one Fn key combo
22:06:45 <AnMaster> you know what? it just changes screen resolution
22:07:10 <ehird> I'm surprised you're able to use the screen; Windows defaults to 96dpi. Everything'll be so itty bitty.
22:07:26 <AnMaster> ehird, it seems they set it up to right DPI in advance
22:07:39 <ehird> That generally makes windows iffy
22:07:45 <ehird> It doesn't handle non-96 dpis well.
22:08:21 <AnMaster> ehird, actually doesn't look too bad
22:08:33 <ehird> not as good as proper system-wide dpi settings
22:09:08 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't like I will use windows much. But it was good that I did, or I would have missed the BIOS update
22:09:20 <ehird> I'd just wipe it altogether. Takes up space.
22:09:32 <ehird> hmm, I wonder if Arch has a freetype package with the BCI
22:09:52 <AnMaster> ehird, I will wipe it once the bios update is installed
22:09:58 <AnMaster> there is a recovery cd included
22:10:00 <ehird> [[The Pre is now telling your computer that the vendor who made it is Apple. The change here is that with previous versions of webOS, the Vendor ID was “0 × 0830 (Palm Inc.).” So while previously the Pre identified itself as a “mass storage device” called an iPod, now it’s identifying itself as a “mass storage device manufactured by Apple” called an iPod.]]
22:10:23 <ehird> Palm: Turns out we're fucked up financially. Let's be like Kim Jong-Il and launch our nukes!
22:10:33 <ehird> Apple: Stop that. *fixes iTunes*
22:10:40 <ehird> Palm: *shove* I DIDN'T SHOVE YOU
22:11:13 <ehird> [[This is a direct violation of the USB licensing agreement. But, in what can only be described as true chutzpah, Palm has preemptively filed a complaint against Apple to the USB Implementors Forum, accusing Apple of misusing the USB Vendor ID. ]]
22:11:30 <ehird> Palm: Not only did I not shove you, you shoved me!
22:11:37 <ehird> AnMaster: I don't know either
22:11:40 <ehird> Palm appear to be on crack
22:12:11 <AnMaster> ehird, is itunes locked to ipods?
22:12:23 <AnMaster> then why do they want to do that
22:12:25 <ehird> But Palm aren't happy with being classed as a regular device.
22:12:34 <ehird> So they pose as an iPod to get features that iTunes only does for iPods.
22:13:04 <ehird> Anyway, apparently users find a separate syncing application totally unacceptable.
22:13:09 <ehird> Which is why every other phone ever has one.
22:13:44 <AnMaster> ehird, phone or hand held computer
22:13:59 <ehird> AnMaster: Both; they're called smartphones.
22:14:16 <ehird> Yeah, like 2004 new.
22:14:28 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah. Ask me again in 2024
22:14:41 <ehird> Tons of Nokia phones... iPhone... T-Mobile G1 (aka Google Phone)...
22:14:44 <ehird> Every Palm phone ever
22:14:48 <ehird> Every Windows Mobile phone ever
22:15:09 <ehird> http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/why_did_no_one_inform_us_of_the
22:15:25 <ehird> I cannot believe Yu Wan Mei would release their tight but benevolent grip on The Onion!
22:15:29 <ehird> Is it no longer fish time?!
22:15:51 <ehird> Is, perhaps, robustness now AVOIDABLE with the consumption of Yu Wan Mei products?
22:18:36 <ehird> AnMaster: Are you perhaps questioning the undeniable wisdom & infallibility of Yu Wan Mei corporation and the Chinese government?
22:18:38 <AnMaster> great... windows update wants me to restart while lenovo update is installing stuff
22:18:48 <ehird> Well, sit there and refuse to answer it.
22:21:18 <AnMaster> ok it decided to reboot anyway
22:21:31 <AnMaster> might have been windows or lenvo *shrug*
22:21:40 <ehird> Windows is all about the reboots.
22:21:50 <ehird> Incidentally, I find it queer how long this is taking.
22:21:58 <AnMaster> anyway it was saying installing updated wifi driver
22:22:37 <ehird> A Linux laptop that's two major releases behind would be updated in, what, half an hour? An old Mac laptop, about 20 minutes.
22:23:01 <ehird> (Well, apart from the major OS X release boundary; but Linux updates are far more incremental so the minors are more a applicable analogy)
22:23:07 <ehird> But this Windows thing? What's it been, 3-4 hours?
22:23:32 <pikhq> 3-4 hours is an unreasonable update length even for Gentoo.
22:24:06 <pikhq> And the worst part about it is that Windows doesn't have an automated update process.
22:24:15 <pikhq> You need to hand-hold Windows through it.
22:24:21 <ehird> I'd make a policy to only buy laptops with Linux or OS X on them, but System76 unfortunately don't ship to the UK.
22:24:54 <ehird> Also System76 laptops are kinda… heavy; their first 15" starts at 2.6kg.
22:25:20 <AnMaster> I had a 12" one a few years ago that was close to 3 kg
22:25:22 <ehird> Yes, but that's e.g. with one stick of RAM.
22:25:24 <AnMaster> but yeah it was around 1999 or so
22:25:26 <ehird> And a one-platter HD.
22:25:36 <ehird> And no extra battery thingy.
22:26:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Mac laptops are ridiculously light nowadays
22:26:33 <ehird> The 17" MacBook Pro is 2.99kg.
22:26:49 <AnMaster> ok... there is a strange entry in the lenvo meny that roughly translates to "make system younger"... right below update system
22:26:58 <ehird> AnMaster: system restore?
22:27:03 <Asztal> http://imgur.com/w3mLP&7R8oCl <- OK...
22:27:07 <AnMaster> ehird, nah, that is one post below that!
22:27:08 <ehird> AnMaster: anyway, why do you use swedish operating systems?
22:27:15 <ehird> i thought you said you only knew tech terms in english
22:27:28 <ehird> Asztal: Did it come with your BOOTLOADER?!?!?!
22:27:29 <AnMaster> ehird, well. windows was in Swedish
22:27:32 <Deewiant> Buying a system in Sweden generally gets you a Swedish OS
22:27:34 <AnMaster> ehird, not much of a choice then?
22:27:38 <ehird> AnMaster: ah, right
22:27:57 <AnMaster> ehird, actually Windows asked if I wanted to use Swedish, Finnish or Spanish at first boot
22:28:05 <ehird> What an odd choice.
22:28:06 <AnMaster> it said I couldn't change latter
22:28:09 <ehird> Is Spanish common in Sweden or something?
22:28:11 <Deewiant> You should've gone Finnish, it's much better
22:28:16 <ehird> I know there's a substantial amount of Finns; i.e. Torvalds.
22:28:35 <ehird> Torvalds is the other way around
22:28:39 <ehird> a Swedish-speaker in Finland
22:28:54 <ehird> still those countries kinda blend together know what i mean :D
22:28:57 <AnMaster> ehird, well yeah Finnish makes sense. You could even imagine Swedish/Finnish/Dannish/Norwegian for some sort of "generic Scandinavian pre-install"
22:29:26 <pikhq> I can see English/Spanish. I can see Swedish/Finnish/Danish/Norwegian.
22:29:42 <pikhq> I can't see Swedish/Finnish/Spanish.
22:29:45 <ehird> AnMaster: Si taht wenh uyo sepak lkei tihs?
22:30:25 <AnMaster> ah no it didn't install those things
22:30:36 <AnMaster> so another 13 lenovo updates to install
22:30:43 <ehird> See, sí, it's OK on the sea.
22:30:57 <ehird> AnMaster: Typoish for "Is that when you speak like this?"
22:31:17 <AnMaster> <pikhq> I can't see Swedish/Finnish/Spanish. <-- I could. I saw the damn list!
22:31:33 <AnMaster> I did have to read it twice to convince myself though
22:31:34 <ehird> pikhq has some weird mental blocks.
22:31:37 <ehird> pikhq: can you see this? fnord
22:32:09 <ehird> I don't think we've ever had one.
22:32:12 <ehird> But it sounds fun.
22:32:14 <oerjan> <ehird> pikhq: can you see this? <-- don't be silly, you think he is blind or something?
22:32:48 <GregorR> !echo I have usurped fungot!
22:32:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so I was faster there then?
22:32:50 <EgoBot> I have usurped fungot!
22:32:52 <ehird> 14:32:26 <ehird> oerjan: :-D
22:32:52 <ehird> 14:32:26 <AnMaster> oerjan, :D
22:32:53 <ehird> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.07.24
22:32:58 <Deewiant> 2009-07-25 00:32:25 ( ehird) oerjan: :-D
22:32:58 <Deewiant> 2009-07-25 00:32:26 ( AnMaster) oerjan, :D
22:33:32 <oerjan> well _i_ saw ehird first and clearly that is what counts
22:33:33 <ehird> but Deewiant's was one second before
22:33:39 <ehird> you're the only one to report being first
22:33:44 <ehird> and Deewiant has shown two different times
22:33:50 <ehird> AnMaster: anyway, the lag for your messages are inherently 0s
22:34:19 <ehird> yours has an advantage
22:34:45 <AnMaster> ok why can't windows ask all the "supplemental licenses" at the start
22:34:56 <AnMaster> rather than when each update is installing
22:35:18 <Deewiant> Hey, at least you can install the OS in one go these days
22:35:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, huh? you couldn't before?
22:35:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I even installed windows 98
22:35:43 <ehird> AnMaster: iTunes on OS X gives you the EULA when you start it up after an upgrade
22:35:44 <AnMaster> and I don't remember such issues
22:35:44 <Deewiant> With XP I got used to planning it; in 30 minutes it'll ask about they keyboard layout, an hour after that about a license, half hour after that it'll want a user account name
22:35:46 <ehird> which is irritating
22:35:52 <ehird> dmgs with licenses don't do that though
22:35:57 <AnMaster> ehird, they should provide diffs
22:36:11 <ehird> i don't think you can legally agree to a diff
22:36:15 <Deewiant> When I hadn't yet got used to planning it it was really annoyng
22:36:23 <ehird> Deewiant: nLite or whatever.
22:36:27 <ehird> That thing that lets you script installs.
22:36:28 <Deewiant> Go away for two hours and realize it's only 20% done and waiting to know what keyboard layout to use
22:36:43 <AnMaster> ehird, Windows Scripted Install Toolkit thingy thingy?
22:36:52 <ehird> you gave it parameters, pretty much anything
22:36:53 <AnMaster> ehird, there was an official one too
22:37:01 <ehird> and it burned an install disk
22:37:16 <Deewiant> ehird: nlite wasn't always out
22:37:21 <AnMaster> ehird, skipping IE = breaking windows update back then
22:37:28 <ehird> There's a firefox plugin for it.
22:37:33 <ehird> AnMaster: More pertinently, it broke help.
22:37:38 <ehird> And, I think, explorer.exe.
22:37:39 <Deewiant> And I can't always be bothered to burn another disc just for an unattended install
22:37:42 <ehird> And everything else.
22:37:45 <Deewiant> I did use it at least once, though
22:37:54 <ehird> Microsoft weren't actually bullshitting when they said IE was integrated.
22:38:00 <ehird> They just used the HTML component in a fuckload of places.
22:38:01 <Deewiant> I always disable the help service
22:38:02 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes, it does.
22:38:11 <ehird> Unless you're uber-leet and just click things to find out what they do.
22:38:22 <Deewiant> The help is useless 99% of the time anyway
22:38:32 <AnMaster> "ThinkPad Video Features(Intel GM45)" <-- huh?
22:38:39 <ehird> AnMaster: video card.
22:38:42 <ehird> Deewiant: That's cause Windows software sucks.
22:38:46 <oerjan> i think people who aren't lawyers shouldn't be allowed to accept EULAs and such things without passing a small test that they have understood it. this should nicely force the industry to simplify the stuff to something sane.
22:38:48 <ehird> AnMaster: Chinese company.
22:38:50 <AnMaster> ehird, yes but what is the "Features" bit there for
22:38:57 <ehird> AnMaster: Chinese company.
22:39:03 <Deewiant> oerjan: The test is often that you've scrolled down to the bottom
22:39:16 <ehird> Deewiant: It worked before we figured out how to drag scrollbars!
22:39:18 <AnMaster> ehird, the "lenovo update" thingy is in mixed English and Swedish
22:39:35 <ehird> Deewiant: Maybe Windows 1!
22:40:06 <AnMaster> "please state which of these alternatives is true for this EULA"
22:40:10 <AnMaster> and provide three alternatives
22:40:26 <ehird> outlaw multi choice!
22:40:52 <AnMaster> oh god I hate updates starting an installer you have to click through
22:41:07 <ehird> Why are you updating Windows instead of wiping it?
22:41:19 <Deewiant> I was just wondering that myself
22:41:25 <AnMaster> ehird, for the bios update. You couldn't select it without selecting all the critical windows updates too
22:41:28 <Deewiant> If you're going to wipe it anyway
22:41:37 <ehird> AnMaster: Download it manually from the site…
22:41:49 * ehird whacks AnMaster with a cluebat
22:42:00 <AnMaster> ehird, have to find where though
22:42:10 <ehird> lenovo.com, biosmanufacturer.com
22:42:27 <ehird> http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/product.do?doctypeind=9&template=%2Fproductselection%2Flandingpages%2FdownloadsDriversLandingPage.vm&sitestyle=lenovo
22:42:30 <ehird> Downloads and drivers.
22:44:30 <AnMaster> Select one of the following tasks:
22:44:52 <ehird> ( ) Update your mom
22:45:23 <Deewiant> What "huh", isn't that rather self-explanatory
22:45:32 <ehird> what the fuck is updating model number
22:46:08 <ehird> This only makes sense to you, Deewiant.
22:46:46 <AnMaster> also I didn't want universe to collapse
22:46:56 <GregorR> AnMaster agrees with ehird?
22:47:01 <GregorR> The universe is going to end!
22:47:07 <Deewiant> You know, the serial number in the BIOS
22:47:08 <ehird> it's happened like 30 times
22:47:13 <ehird> he just hasn't vigorously agreed yet
22:47:18 <ehird> Deewiant: "Update", not change.
22:47:22 <ehird> Also, why on earth would you want to?
22:47:24 <ehird> What purpose has that?
22:47:35 <Deewiant> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=10482
22:47:37 <ehird> Also, why does it matter?
22:47:39 <Deewiant> There's a case where somebody needed it
22:47:47 <Deewiant> "I think it's definitely the IBM service's fault. They haven't entered the machine type number and the system unit serial number when they replaced the mobo. Call them, and they are going to fix in a few days. "
22:47:55 <ehird> Okay, so you understand it because YOU'VE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH IT.
22:48:07 <ehird> Then you're just insane.
22:48:24 <AnMaster> ehird, it might be related to that "make system younger"?
22:48:25 <Deewiant> Reading "update" as "change" is not really a humongous leap of logic
22:48:42 <ehird> Deewiant: it's a very awkward sentence
22:48:49 <ehird> AnMaster: No, that just applies anti-aging cream to the heatsink.
22:48:56 <ehird> *heatsinks, rather
22:49:07 <ehird> Deewiant: I'm a native speaker, QED :-P
22:49:39 <Deewiant> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/update
22:49:39 <GregorR> Nuh uh. I speak American. That's ENGLISH.
22:49:42 <AnMaster> ok bios rebooted itself a few times then booted as normal
22:49:47 <Deewiant> 2. Computers. to incorporate new or more accurate information in (a database, program, procedure, etc.).
22:50:01 <ehird> Deewiant: It was awkward. You cannot dispute something's awkwardness by citing a dictionary.
22:50:11 <ehird> It was so awkward, in fact, that we needed clarification to understand it.
22:50:22 <Deewiant> Retain usage of the word 'update' and make it less awkward
22:50:38 <ehird> No, that's a pointless exercise.
22:50:53 <oerjan> would making the system younger be updating or downdating, i wonder
22:50:55 <ehird> Here's how I would phrase it: "Fix our retarded incompetence that we bundled a fix to with a totally unrelated update"
22:51:29 <Deewiant> And they're not totally unrelated
22:51:53 <ehird> They're both to do with the BIOS. One's a routine upgrade, one's a stupid problem someone had once.
22:52:06 <ehird> AnMaster: that is not what makes it awkward
22:52:08 <ehird> it's the whole sentence
22:52:31 <Deewiant> That tool might easily be something admin-folks use all the time
22:52:52 <ehird> Great, internal tools taken as a mark of good UI design for external tools.
22:53:29 <Deewiant> They generally aren't meant for the UI-uneducated anyway
22:53:29 <ehird> this is going nowhere
22:53:35 <ehird> Deewiant: Oh really?
22:53:35 <oerjan> are aquatic aardvarks awkward?
22:53:38 <ehird> Then why is it bundled as a ROUTINE UPGRADE.
22:53:41 <GregorR> Why does this channel have such fekking stupid conversations?
22:53:43 <ehird> You know, for ALL USERS.
22:54:03 <Deewiant> Because somebody thought it was important but nobody cares about UI?
22:54:04 <GregorR> I don't, I come back six-hundred lines in and go "gee, it would be nice if this wasn't going on."
22:54:17 <Deewiant> I don't see how a silent channel is an improvement
22:54:50 * ehird is sure we could emulate usual argumentative structure with just blank messages
22:55:33 * Deewiant is sure that the structure is quite indistinguishable from the structure of pretty much any other conversation
22:55:42 <ehird> Deewiant: Just try it!
22:55:46 <GregorR> Here's what we should all do: Record an example sentence in our accent, then try to emulate each others' accents. We will all have a hearty laugh at how terrible we sound, and we won't be talking about this any more :P
22:55:50 <ehird> Imagine my messages, fill in words that fit the structure and speed,
22:55:52 <ehird> imagine a response
22:55:58 <ehird> and type a blank message in time.
22:56:39 <AnMaster> GregorR, what is wrong about talking about lenovo fuckups?
22:56:55 <ehird> I love inane conversations
22:56:58 <GregorR> Talking about the exact semantics of some stupid sentence used in a tool involved therein is stupid :P
22:57:00 <ehird> <GregorR> No you don't
22:57:26 <AnMaster> wait. a new user called "login with fingerprint" has been installed
22:57:44 <GregorR> Hello, my name is L. W. Fingerprint.
22:57:45 <ehird> AnMaster: if you click it, it'll ask for a fingerprint with their app
22:57:47 <ehird> and then switch user
22:57:53 <ehird> because you can't hook in to the login process
22:58:02 <ehird> AnMaster: so you can set it as auto user
22:58:05 <ehird> and you never have to say who you are
22:58:07 <ehird> just use your fingerprint
22:58:20 <AnMaster> ehird, you can actually. At the top of the screen when it first booted as a "please set up your fingerprint"
22:58:29 <ehird> not in that way at least
22:58:48 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway you can provide new auth plugins under windows
22:58:58 <ehird> presumably this way is much esir
22:59:52 <fizzie> Hm, my hostname is just an IP right now. That's no good.
23:00:07 -!- fizzie has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:09 -!- fizzie has joined.
23:00:17 <ehird> **fizzie evolves into FIS@IRIS.ZEM.FI!**
23:00:35 <ehird> (Press A to continue)
23:00:54 <ehird> ((Gameboy music.))
23:00:56 <ehird> You are in a field.
23:01:03 <ehird> You are a person and you have pokemans.
23:01:12 <ehird> You can go in any direction.
23:01:14 <ehird> Apart from up and down.
23:01:22 <ehird> You can't go up and down. This game is two-dimensional.
23:01:35 <ehird> But you can't travel in time, either.
23:01:48 -!- fungot has joined.
23:02:05 <fizzie> Had to reboot momus, that's why it was gone. Sleeps now, night. ->
23:02:06 <ehird> There is more field with grass in different places.
23:02:10 <ehird> Someone looks at you.
23:02:18 <ehird> Now you must fight them.
23:02:21 <AnMaster> ehird, oh yeah "make system younger" seems to be the system checkpoint/restore thingy. Or something similar at least
23:05:26 <ehird> AnMaster: no, you fail
23:05:29 <oerjan> i merely quit a pokeman game
23:05:33 <ehird> oerjan: You eat the grass.
23:05:38 <ehird> It's super effective!
23:05:45 <ehird> You murder the guy.
23:05:48 -!- puzzlet has joined.
23:05:50 <ehird> You are in a field.
23:05:58 <ehird> Quitting is disallowable.
23:06:31 <FireFly> You went from Pokémon to something more um
23:06:37 <ehird> AnMaster: Pokemans.
23:06:45 <ehird> FireFly: We are alas constrained to one-dimensional media of text.
23:06:56 <ehird> AnMaster: No, it's an internetsism.
23:07:14 <ehird> My pokemans, let me show you them.
23:07:47 <ehird> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/24/swedish_shortage/ ;; I thought this was, like, lesbians getting sperm out of the banks to swallow it or something before I read past the headline
23:08:00 <GregorR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_M43ufegq8
23:08:04 <ehird> Or some radical man-haters raided a sperm bank and destroyed it
23:08:37 <AnMaster> the recovery discs says windows xp on them
23:08:45 <ehird> AnMaster: Downgrade disk?
23:08:48 <oerjan> Mars needs women, Sweden needs sperm.
23:09:10 <ehird> AnMaster: You should sue Lenovo to reclaim the Windows tax; there's a guy who did that to all major computer companies and actually got the money back.
23:09:19 <ehird> Because you can't buy a non-Windows machine from them
23:09:33 <ehird> AnMaster: i.e., the >$100 you paid to get Windows on it.
23:09:36 <ehird> without any other choice.
23:09:43 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway you can from lenovo.... just not by any reseller
23:10:25 <ehird> You could get Dell to officially suck your dick, too, if it'd bag them £1bil.
23:10:36 <ehird> But that's not a service that Dell offers.
23:10:39 <ehird> (AT LEAST NOT YET)
23:10:44 <ehird> (THIS IS AN UNTAPPED MARKET DELL)
23:11:13 <ehird> My analogies are perfect.
23:11:30 <ehird> getting windows is like receiving oral sex
23:11:44 <ehird> can't love a windows user
23:11:55 <AnMaster> ehird, no I meant about "<ehird> My analogies are perfect."
23:12:06 <ehird> It was a joke, sheesh.
23:13:31 <ehird> A pokemans et you.
23:13:34 <ehird> YOU ARE INSIDE A STOMACH.
23:13:39 <ehird> You see no exist but out the butt.
23:13:42 <ehird> Acids begin to eat you.
23:14:06 <ehird> Your legs are gone.
23:14:31 <ehird> You are like unto a burger.
23:14:46 <ehird> How many hamfisted legacies are the part of parcels that must be accepted to gain entry?
23:14:53 <ehird> Your brain is meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellting.
23:15:23 <AnMaster> SQL server configuration manager is installed on this
23:15:25 <ehird> Pirates eat yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooou
23:15:28 <ehird> Oh that was just the aaaaaaaaaaacid.
23:15:31 <ehird> The stomach aaaaaaaaacid.
23:15:47 <ehird> You die and are pooped out.
23:15:51 <ehird> This answers all your questions about SQL Server.
23:16:02 <ehird> You are dead. You are in a field. You are a component of some poop.
23:16:58 <oerjan> (remember kids, always recycle)
23:17:21 <ehird> How your memories of cycling come back to you.
23:17:26 <ehird> You always rode as a child.
23:17:29 <ehird> You realise you are dead.
23:17:34 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *CRASH*
23:17:36 <ehird> You are in a town.
23:17:43 <ehird> You are no longer a component of some poop.
23:18:40 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:18:45 <ehird> Floatatious thuogh you meay be, careless inaction costs live!
23:19:03 <oerjan> i take a job as a ghost writer
23:19:12 <ehird> You become a ghost writer
23:19:19 <ehird> They go oooo and fly away
23:19:24 <ehird> You are in a mansion with your newfound riches
23:20:10 <ehird> You go back to your old haunts and cycle.
23:20:19 <ehird> History repeats you are in a town youare no longer a component of some poop acct
23:20:43 <ehird> Did you mean to say that the thing that you said was what you said that was
23:20:49 <ehird> (augur: parse that bitch)
23:21:10 <ehird> 23:20 ehird: Did you mean to say that the thing that you said was what you said that was
23:21:17 <oerjan> i establish a jewish world order
23:21:26 <ehird> Bronchitis overtakes you
23:21:35 <ehird> A Jewish/Bronchitic World Order is established.
23:21:38 <oerjan> (carefully hiding the fact i'm not jewish)
23:21:38 <ehird> You feel vaguely reptilian.
23:21:39 <augur> ehird, do you really want me to parse that?
23:21:51 <augur> ok give me a moment
23:22:52 <oerjan> i start a religion based on the world being a large turtle
23:23:06 <ehird> You aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare that that you act
23:24:06 <oerjan> i successfully pass a law against acting. then i retire.
23:24:46 <AnMaster> what has the last option got to do with network?
23:24:59 <AnMaster> ehird, find out how they could mess it up like this
23:25:25 <AnMaster> wait the help for it is even weirder
23:26:19 <AnMaster> "[Disabled] May be needed for some older networked SW (e.g. previous versions of RDM) -- see SW document\n-ation. Could slow hard drive performance when booted to the network."
23:26:34 <AnMaster> the \n there was just to illustrate the failed newline
23:27:24 -!- Pthing has joined.
23:27:57 <pikhq> Well, my roommate is spending half of his Google SoC paycheck on a new computer...
23:28:16 <pikhq> That's going to be some crazy computer.
23:29:05 <AnMaster> might be good to make sure it is good
23:36:47 <ehird> pikhq: how much is it
23:37:10 <ehird> pikhq: That's not a lot for a computer...
23:37:27 <ehird> bsmntbombdood's new rig + GTX 285 = >$2000
23:38:03 <ehird> So... 2.93ghz core i7, 12gb ddr3, 80gb Intel X25-M SSD, 1TB storage, GTX 285
23:38:05 <pikhq> That's sufficient to get 44G of RAM and 16 CPUs if you're willing to not get much else. :P
23:38:08 <ehird> Sure, absolutely kick-ass.
23:38:18 <ehird> Not like the most amazing gaming rig ever.
23:38:30 <ehird> pikhq: You can get 24GB of DDR3 for about $900
23:38:34 <pikhq> I want to know what makes you think that $2000 isn't much.
23:38:41 <ehird> It is a lot of money.
23:38:45 <ehird> It is not a lot of money for a high-end computer.
23:39:00 <pikhq> Apparently your idea of "high-end" and mine are in conflict.
23:39:22 <ehird> pikhq: that's because you aren't on a high-end machine, presumably
23:39:28 <ehird> Everything above you tends to look high-end
23:39:29 <pikhq> Note: high-end does not generally mean something that you'd expect from Cray.
23:39:40 <pikhq> Unless you're a business.
23:39:50 <ehird> Uhh, $2000 won't begin to buy a tenth of the power of a Cray apart from that shitty "entry-level" one.
23:40:14 <pikhq> $2000 gets you a rather insane computer for a normal person to have, though.
23:40:22 <ehird> I'm just saying that $2,000 gets you a nice high-end rig; it doesn't get you a gigantic monster of computing rampage.
23:40:27 <ehird> pikhq: Is he a gamer?
23:40:38 <pikhq> Yes, but mostly a console gamer.
23:40:53 <ehird> I mean, a little below $1,000 is what you'd expect a PC gamer to usually pay for a machine that can play the latest games decently.
23:41:02 <pikhq> (read: owns all the consoles, and all of the games worth having)
23:41:26 <ehird> pikhq: $2,000 isn't even enough to get 2x Nehalem, I don't think
23:41:34 <ehird> or at least, maybe the lowest end Nehalem
23:41:39 <ehird> (I'm talking about just the processors)
23:41:52 <ehird> pikhq: one 3.2ghz nehalem xeon costs $1,500
23:41:53 <pikhq> The middle-range is $600 or so.
23:42:00 <ehird> pikhq: dood, that's core i7
23:42:06 <ehird> the xeons, which let you go 2x processor, are more expensive
23:42:13 <ehird> (they also support ecc)
23:42:52 <pikhq> Dude, the i7s are going for $300-400 now.
23:42:58 <ehird> pikhq: Wow, where?
23:43:02 <ehird> Certainly not on newegg, the cheapest place.
23:43:13 <ehird> I'd love to bag an i7 for that price.
23:43:15 <pikhq> And see if I need foot in mouth.
23:43:28 <ehird> pikhq: you're right
23:43:32 <ehird> i7 920 for $279.99
23:43:45 <ehird> and 975 for $999.999
23:43:47 <pikhq> The mid-range Xeons are $600-ish.
23:43:57 <ehird> those are some killer prices, especially the 920
23:44:08 <ehird> pikhq: let's hope he isn't stupid and goes for core 2
23:44:14 <ehird> that'd just be a royal waste of money
23:44:24 <pikhq> We were vaguely debating getting 4 Opterons, though. :P
23:44:36 <ehird> the hidden cost of AMD is in the power bill :-P
23:44:45 <ehird> (and heck, the entropy from the heat!)
23:44:47 <pikhq> College pays for the power bill.
23:45:06 <ehird> pikhq: So, Summer of Code pays $4k?
23:45:10 <ehird> Doing what exactly?
23:45:30 <pikhq> Also, it turns out the Opterons that let you get 4 CPUs in a system are about the same price as Nehalem Xeons.
23:45:40 <ehird> Yes, AMD are cheap.
23:45:43 <ehird> But Intel are better. :P
23:46:05 <pikhq> ehird: Stupid game programming, in this case.
23:46:16 <pikhq> He hates it, and getting a new computer out of it would make him feel much better.
23:46:17 <ehird> pikhq: That sounds suspiciously easy.
23:46:39 <pikhq> ehird: Poorly documented and undesigned project.
23:46:40 <ehird> You have to be a uni student, though, don't you. :-)
23:46:44 <pikhq> With a stupid mentor.
23:46:56 <ehird> pikhq: yeah but it's a few months of tedious, hateful coding for $4k
23:46:59 <ehird> that's a good deal in my book
23:47:22 <pikhq> The idea is for it to be a few months of wonderful coding.
23:47:30 <pikhq> This specific project is made of suck, however.
23:47:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:48:04 <ehird> huh gsoc actually comes out to like $2/hour
23:48:08 <ehird> it sounds nicer in the bulk figure :D
23:48:33 <pikhq> It lasts two or three months...
23:48:57 <FireFly> Well, you don't work every hour, do you?
23:48:58 <pikhq> ... Nobody works 24 hours a day...
23:49:21 <FireFly> At least in Sweden, I think we have 40 hours per week
23:49:34 <ehird> pikhq: how much do you do in gsoc?
23:49:40 <ehird> like 6-7hr/day or sth?
23:49:59 <pikhq> ehird: As much as is necessary to do what you signed up to do.
23:50:20 <pikhq> Depends on the project and the person.
23:50:49 <pikhq> Nominally, 8. Really, 3.
23:51:14 <ehird> comes out to roughly $15/hr
23:51:34 <ehird> quite a sweet deal your roommate got there
23:52:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:52:18 <ehird> wonder if i could convince google i'm a uni student -in spirit-
23:52:32 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Highly_Open_Participation_Contest
23:52:46 <ehird> Prizes offered by Google include a contest t-shirt and participation certificate for completing at least one task and US$100 for every three tasks completed to a maximum of US$500 (for fifteen completed tasks)
23:52:58 <ehird> i don't think 15 tasks is worth just $500
23:53:03 -!- Nowicjusz has joined.
23:53:12 <pikhq> "Document the following functions".
23:53:14 <ehird> rather try my chances at confusing google as to my studenthood :D
23:53:22 <ehird> Nowicjusz: who're you.
23:54:27 <ehird> what doth broughtify you here
23:55:28 <ehird> xeno proved it you know
23:56:19 <ehird> Nowicjusz: we're about programming not magick fyi.
23:57:47 <FireFly> Well, at least now we're 42 people in here
23:57:54 <ehird> Nowicjusz: strange programming languages