00:00:05 all the shit nobody uses! 00:00:08 all long options, all the time! 00:00:27 let's see… 00:00:37 grub 2 booting gnu hurd booting gnome 00:00:41 Shush you. Long options are nice. 00:00:44 * Sgeo uses GNOME 00:00:51 Sgeo: yes, yes, so do i 00:00:57 pikhq: looked at ls --help recently? 00:01:02 hmm with bazaar to manage your code 00:01:04 I mean, when I'm not using Windows >.> 00:01:07 edited in emacs 00:01:14 IceCat! 00:01:22 etc 00:01:34 would be quite easily, actuall 00:01:34 y 00:01:36 install grub 2 00:01:41 install Debian/kHURD 00:01:46 install gnome 00:01:49 and you're pretty much done 00:02:33 although debian isn't really the platonic ideal 00:02:38 can you get gNewSense/kHURD? :D 00:02:49 gNewSense is just reduced Debian ... 00:03:00 slash-rethemed 00:03:03 GregorR: Exactly, reduced. 00:03:13 GregorR: But uh, it's Ubuntu, isn't it? 00:03:14 lonelydino.com? 00:03:17 Not Debian. 00:03:24 Mebbe, Idonno *shrugs* 00:03:38 Is Stackless Python a good idea? 00:03:39 Anyway, gNewSense/kHURD booted from GRUB 2 = an OS only rms could love. 00:03:43 Sgeo: Yes and no. 00:03:56 Sgeo: Don't bother actually using it, though. 00:04:21 GregorR: Yah, it's Ubuntu-based 00:04:29 Also ugly as fuck. 00:05:16 Maybe there's a script to produce gNewSense from Debian, or somtehing. 00:05:18 gNuisance? 00:05:27 Sgeo: That's not your pun, that's theirs. 00:05:41 oh >.> 00:06:05 Note to self: Don't bother coming up with what I falsely think is original stuff 00:06:08 "We're also the first distribution to remove GLX^, which Debian has ignored for years." 00:06:11 ehird: They've published their scripts. 00:06:13 Thanks for the innovation, gNewSense! 00:06:24 Should be trivial to modify it for Debian. 00:06:24 pikhq: Excellent. 00:06:40 GLX? 00:06:45 Sgeo: ^GLX is needed for hardware-accelerated 3d graphics in X. Recompiling X, and removing OpenGL, are required due to the non-free SGI Free B license. 00:07:01 gNewSense are providing wonderful innovation by removing all 3d acceleration from X11! 00:07:05 FREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOMFREE AS IN FREEDOM 00:07:14 (Although, "(GLX was removed from gNewSense over its licencing issues, but has been re-introduced apon being freed early in 2009)". HOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY?) 00:07:33 ... Never mind that X's GL support is not actually an OpenGL implementation. 00:07:54 [[While Builder is geared towards gNewSense, with some modification it can be used to create and maintain a fork of any .deb based distribution.]] 00:07:58 Mesa != OpenGL. It just happens to be bug-for-bug compatible. :P 00:07:59 RMS WOULD BE PROUD 00:08:08 I'm now taking donations for a completely free system 00:08:10 Coreboot and the rest 00:08:11 :P 00:08:27 I'll stick 100 photographs of rms all over the case. 00:08:33 ehird: They do not just say "all-free fork of any .deb-based distribution". 00:08:43 pikhq: Nonono, I mean 00:08:47 RMS would be proud because it means I can use it 00:08:56 Yup. 00:09:02 FREEDOM FREE AS IN FREEDOM FREE 00:09:03 For the amazing coreboot/GRUB 2/HURD/gNewSense/GNOME monstrosity. 00:09:29 "No, LiveCDs are available from our Mirrors. You only need to download 30GB if you want to use Builder to create your own distribution." 00:09:29 More hardcore than Stallman. 00:09:33 …30GB? 00:09:33 wat 00:09:56 That's the whole set of .debs. 00:09:57 pikhq: I'll make the bootup sound the Free Software song. 00:10:12 BEEP! Krrrnkrkrrrrnkkrrrrnk……………… JOIN US NOW AND SHARE THE SOFTWARE 00:10:15 YOUUU'LL BE FREEEEEEEEEE, HACKERS 00:10:18 YOUUUU'LL BE FREEEEEEEEE 00:10:27 and it plays it out in total before showing the log in box 00:11:01 Should I attempt to learn wxPython, or are there better GUI frameworks to learn? 00:11:04 A system even Stallman couldn't love. 00:11:17 Sgeo: Just use a gtk or qt binding. 00:11:18 Sgeo: hsGTK? 00:11:27 Cross platform frameworks, in my experience, are simply The Suck. 00:11:32 pikhq: gtkhs, actually. 00:11:40 Erm. Right. 00:11:48 pikhq: gtk2hs, actually. :P 00:12:45 The wiki is suggesting to install PythonCard?????? 00:13:06 …what? 00:13:13 The Python wiki is worthless. 00:13:19 PythonCard is a crutch. I used it once because I needed the crutch. 00:13:22 Sgeo: Just use a gtk binding, seriously. 00:13:45 I commandest thou. 00:13:52 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:13:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:14:19 "Version 2.4 Last updated 2005-04-13" 00:14:24 ^^PyGTK 00:14:24 Just 00:14:25 use 00:14:26 a 00:14:31 Sgeo: Ok, so use another one. 00:14:39 uhh 00:14:40 Sgeo: http://www.pygtk.org/ 00:14:44 25 may 2009 00:14:47 Yeah, that's totally 2005. 00:14:58 http://www.pygtk.org/tutorial.html 00:15:05 So what? 00:15:31 The current version is 2.15 00:15:40 …yes? 00:16:02 Is the tutorial dangerously out-of-date, or out-of-date in a way that won't hurt me? 00:16:22 http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=pygtk+tutorial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 00:16:33 this isn't hard, man 00:16:37 take some initiative 00:16:47 ty 00:16:52 :) 00:16:56 Learn to Google. 00:17:06 that's what "take some initiative" means :-P 00:17:48 * Sgeo was hoping for a more official tutorial, I guess 00:22:34 self.bardejov = gtk.gdk.pixbuf_new_from_file("bardejov.jpg") 00:23:24 self.yourmom = ... 00:24:26 * Sgeo decides that this tutorial is crap 00:26:01 the first decision Sgeo's ever made on his own : 00:26:02 :P 00:26:08 lol 00:26:09 s/:\n:P/:P/ 00:34:20 * Sgeo may change his mind 00:35:36 * Sgeo is an /r/IAmA addict 00:38:30 P.S. IAmA shithead 00:53:27 wow nice integration. a man:ufw link on ubuntu's website popped up a dialog asking if I wanted to open it in the gnome help viewer thingy 00:53:46 WTF AnMaster? You're ignored, stop appearing on my screen. 00:54:00 ehird, why am I ignored though 00:54:04 wtf you're not in the ignore list any more 00:54:06 also your ignore must be broken 00:54:06 what did you do 00:54:21 ehird, I haxored your computer of c0urse 00:54:23 ;P 00:54:28 also, I ignored you because I don't talk to people whose argumentative method is typing in uppercase 00:54:51 But yes, man:foo works. apt:foo does too. 00:54:51 ehird, it turned out I was right though. I think ais relayed that 00:54:54 brb 00:55:01 ehird, wow. apt: is cool 00:55:34 * AnMaster considers convincing a user to add a new repo then give him/her apt:malware 00:55:47 Or just tell them to type 'sudo apt-get install malware' 00:55:49 yeah it fails because of the "adding a new repo bit" 00:56:02 AnMaster: Anyway, I don't care whether you were right; there are plenty of atheists whose argument is "YOU'RE A FUCKEN SHEEP GOD IS NOT REAL BECAUSE YOU'RE A SHEEP"; they're right that god isn't real, but they're still idiots. 00:56:15 ehird, I don't remember using upper case 00:56:18 but meh 00:56:30 I'm not going to argue about that any more 00:56:32 16:25:19 ehird, ^ 00:56:32 16:25:22 HAPPY NOW? 00:56:50 suffice to say that xchat works after updating gtkspell to last version 00:57:22 ehird, meanwhile I finally got around to setting up genera 00:57:27 in virtualbox 00:57:30 messy indeed 00:57:34 What host OS? 00:57:34 got it *almost* working 00:57:35 ehird: NOW STOP BEING SILLY 00:57:44 oerjan: NEVER 00:57:58 UR STUPID! 00:58:02 ehird, ubuntu in the vm because that was all I could find instructions for _and_ it seemed horribly complex anyway 00:58:04 oerjan: YOU'RE A FAGGOT 00:58:20 ehird, plus I already had the iso downloaded 00:58:29 so much easier to install it 00:58:32 SO IS YOUR FACE 00:58:37 used "expert install" though 00:58:39 was fun 00:58:40 AnMaster: Well, it's a VM running an emulator for an obscure architecture with old software, hacked so that it claws at various parts of the filesystem. 00:58:45 Not exactly… pretty. 00:59:19 ehird, expert mode for install of ubuntu was fun. It was like the worse than LFS + a lot automated: 00:59:22 examples: 00:59:39 Asked after I selected keyboard layout if I had an AltGr key, and if so where 00:59:46 Didn't ask about what packages to install 00:59:48 Ubuntu's expert install is basically Debian's install, which is very similar to Arch's install. 00:59:56 AnMaster: because asking for the packages defeats the point 01:00:00 the point is the one package, ubuntu-deskto 01:00:00 p 01:00:14 and you never remove it or its dependencies 01:00:14 that way the base set of desktop packages are kept in sync 01:00:15 * Sgeo wonders what a deskto\np us 01:00:15 so that apps can be added/removed/replaced each version 01:00:22 Sgeo: /me wonders what us is. 01:00:28 s/deskto\np/desktop/ 01:00:30 ehird, damn you too fast 01:00:41 ehird, well, not even arch asks if you have an altgr key 01:00:44 oh and compose too 01:00:56 * Sgeo wonders what /me is 01:00:57 -!- ehird has changed nick to Bill_Clinton. 01:00:59 and it asked some other extremely strange things 01:01:05 It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is. 01:01:13 If "is" means is and never has been, that is one thing. 01:01:15 lol 01:01:16 Bill_Clinton, what is this a reference to? 01:01:20 If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement. 01:01:32 AnMaster: Bill Clinton justifying "there's nothing going on between us" wrt Monica Lewinsky. 01:01:38 Blowjobs meet Aristotle. 01:01:40 oh hah 01:01:51 -!- Bill_Clinton has changed nick to ehird. 01:02:04 ah.. 01:02:05 -!- Xiin_ has joined. 01:02:13 as in "is" == "right now"... 01:02:16 nice definition 01:02:20 Something like that :P 01:02:37 * Sgeo is not using Windows 01:02:40 ehird, took several seconds to work THAT one out heh 01:02:51 * Sgeo is not in Second Life 01:02:56 * ehird is not being molested by a bear 01:03:00 * ehird is not drinking petrol 01:03:05 ↑ How to know you're living a good life 01:03:07 ehird, btw I'm using my desktop but with krdc to do remote dekstop. Much better position of monitor 01:03:25 You know, I'm not sure you understand the point of laptops :P 01:03:40 ehird, sure. But it isn't working 8 hours in front of one 01:03:46 that hurts my neck 01:03:51 Funny how VNC over a fast enough connection will be faster. 01:03:56 (than the connecter) 01:03:56 -!- Xiin has quit (Nick collision from services.). 01:03:59 (since your laptop is faster) 01:04:01 -!- Xiin_ has changed nick to Xiin. 01:04:07 hm? 01:04:11 actually depends 01:04:16 3D over it sucks it seems 01:04:22 Well, duh. 01:04:23 also I had to file a bug in ubuntu 01:04:23 * Sgeo is using his laptop at his desk. His desktop is Pentium III, 512MB nVidia RIVA TNT2 01:04:27 let me find the link 01:04:29 AnMaster: Heh; link? 01:04:31 Sgeo: Ouch 01:04:33 s/$/./ 01:04:36 I feel for you. 01:04:46 ty 01:05:00 This laptop uses Intel Integrated graphics, but that's still better than TNT2 01:05:03 And to think this measly Core 2 Duo 2.16ghz w/ just 2.5GB of RAM and some crappy ATI Radeon card annoys me :-P 01:05:08 ehird, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/405339 01:05:10 lol ehird 01:05:12 seems some dev looked at it 01:05:30 It was worth the ~£1,000 in 2006, though. 01:05:32 Nice machine. 01:05:54 AnMaster: That looks incredibly automated. 01:06:01 Or at least copy-paste. 01:06:01 ehird, yes 01:06:02 Um, didn't realize that this laptop was Dual Core or whatever? 01:06:07 I see 2 processors 01:06:15 Centrino Duo 01:06:24 Sgeo: Well, I doubt you have 2 actual processors in there :P 01:06:34 I love being nostalgic about things I never experienced. 01:06:38 For instance, dual Pentium 4 boards. 01:06:50 I've used one. 01:06:53 Processor 0: Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2050 @ 160GHz 01:06:58 Processor 1: Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2050 @ 160GHz 01:06:59 It also functioned as a space heater. 01:07:02 160GHz?! 01:07:05 WOW 01:07:06 :D 01:07:06 erm 01:07:08 1.60 01:07:12 I think my computer lobe fetishises the concept of "workstation". 01:07:14 HOT DAMN. 01:07:28 I meant 1.60 GHz 01:07:29 I think because I remember my dad's Pentium 4 tower, and how the case was taller than other comptuers. 01:07:33 It just seems… cool. 01:07:39 This really isn't a super-secret NSA computer 01:07:41 >.> 01:07:42 Dual processors! Tall cases! Sun! UltraSPARC! 01:07:52 19" liquid crystal display! 01:08:22 I'm also enamoured with old clusters of 80s/90s commodity (i.e. 300mhz) hardware. 01:08:36 very well I shall make them happy 01:08:37 ehird, ^ 01:08:43 since I suspect it quitted not crashed 01:08:51 Not quitted; "quat"! 01:08:58 Oh man quat, my new favourite word. 01:09:02 "Yeah, the application quat on me." 01:09:12 AnMaster: (But really — "quit" not "quitted") 01:21:24 ehird, actually it did crash it seems 01:21:31 vino is cool 01:21:40 ehird, however I doubt most users would have managed to debug this 01:21:45 I had to attach gdb to a running process 01:22:04 (and most people probably wouldn't be able to find out how) 01:22:20 A lot of — even most, I'd say — Ubuntu users don't even know what the Terminal is for and have never opened it. 01:22:21 So… yeah. 01:23:00 unlikely :| 01:23:01 in fact I had to google how. Since I couldn't find it in gdb --help output 01:23:09 Pthing: No, very likely. 01:23:14 I know at least one. 01:23:16 how's that 01:23:26 because non-technical people use Ubuntu, too 01:23:30 Pthing, are you agreeing or disagreeing? 01:23:52 disagreeing 01:23:54 I think Pthing's stuck in the "Linux is for übernerds and it's impossible for it to be usable by nontechnical people (who are inherently idiotic)" mindset. 01:23:57 they'll know what it's for 01:23:58 um 01:24:03 no i am stuck in the 01:24:21 "people aren't idiots and know what the magic black dos window is for, and they've followed instructions to use it at least once" 01:24:23 mindset 01:24:38 Pthing, that is equally outdated 01:24:39 I know at least one who doesn't because they've never had to use it. 01:24:50 of how many people who use ubuntu that you know 01:24:52 is that 01:24:54 Also, nobody who isn't a geek knows what a DOS prompt looks like is. 01:24:56 s/ is// 01:24:59 sure they do 01:25:01 Pthing, I can just look at my dad that doesn't even know what "c:" is for 01:25:06 it's the black dos box 01:25:11 Pthing: Uhh, you're an idiot. 01:25:16 only since he got an usb memory stick he knows what "my computer" is for 01:25:19 lots of people know about the black dos box! 01:25:26 clearly I wouldn't even recommend him to use ubuntu 01:25:45 however he is quite good at one thing. Some sort of statistical application called "SPSS" 01:25:50 really, saying that most people have no idea what the magic black thing is 01:25:51 oh and word. 01:25:59 is *way* more "linux is for ubernerds" 01:26:00 Pthing, yes I'm saying tha 01:26:00 AnMaster: Everyone I've turned to Ubuntu has resoundingly said it's easier than Windows 01:26:02 that* 01:26:08 Pthing: no, it's not 01:26:11 Sure it is. 01:26:28 ehird, he needs SPSS. I doubt it would run under wine. And it is his work that pays for the computer 01:26:31 You're making out like the command line prompt is this amazingly obscure piece of the OS 01:26:35 it is 01:26:36 so changing OS would be risky 01:26:36 your assertions are beaten by my living counterevidence 01:26:40 and nobody has ever seen anything like it except for ubernerds 01:26:42 whereas 01:26:48 so I don't even care about arguing about your cognitive biases. 01:26:50 Anybody has used computers for any length of time 01:26:58 will be entirely *aware* of the DOS command line 01:27:02 even if they never used it much 01:27:03 welcome to delusionville, population: billions 01:27:14 wait 01:27:15 actually I think lots of people seen it. But then forgot it again, along with the "do you really want to run this active X control" dialog 01:27:17 you're like 01:27:17 ehird, ^ 01:27:18 13 01:27:19 right 01:27:20 so 01:27:23 lemme calculate 01:27:26 ooh, ooh, I like this one 01:27:26 ehird, becuase it pops up during service pack update 01:27:29 because* 01:27:30 no listen 01:27:31 this is the one where you rebut my arguments by saying i'm young 01:27:33 right? 01:27:33 i'm not insulting you 01:27:34 No 01:27:35 ehird, for half a second 01:27:38 No, listen. 01:27:46 Pthing, how old are you 01:27:46 AnMaster: I don't recall that 01:27:51 22 01:27:53 as I will explain 01:27:58 this is relevant, not an ad hominem 01:28:05 I'm listening. Skeptically. 01:28:06 ehird, hm ok. Only for like half a second. and that is XP SP3. No idea about vista 01:28:32 Pthing, the sum of our ages are much greater than your age :P 01:28:34 you ever fucked around with autoexec.bat to get a DOS game working because of the stupid himem requirements? 01:28:39 and I'm quite close to your age 01:28:41 Pthing: Yes. 01:28:49 Surprisingly, statistically, NOBODY DOES THAT. 01:28:53 They used to! 01:28:54 Well, actually, I'm not sure I've done that in particular. 01:28:55 But whatever. 01:28:57 That's my point. 01:29:01 People USED to have to do that 01:29:04 in the brief period between 01:29:07 Pthing: How many people do you actually know that have used a computer? 01:29:08 a) everyone uses DOS 01:29:13 Pthing, lots of people didn't use computers back then 01:29:16 b) windows XP made everything nice 01:29:17 Most of them don't know what the fuck Windows is. 01:29:19 They think internet is the E. 01:29:25 They don't know what a tab is. 01:29:29 I know people only getting computers a few years ago 01:29:29 The only other program is Word. 01:29:32 What is a virus? 01:29:35 click the shiny ad banner! 01:29:41 and never using dos under windows 9x 01:29:47 Yes, this is condescending; I'm using hyperbole to counter. 01:29:52 to counter what? 01:29:59 ehird, you forgot outlook express 01:30:01 :P 01:30:10 "Everyone who's used a computer for long enough knows about cmd.exe" 01:30:13 Simply, truly false. 01:30:24 They don't necessarily *conceptualise* it as cmd.exe 01:30:25 AnMaster: What is that? My email is hot mail dot com. 01:30:31 or anything but "the black dos box" 01:30:32 Pthing: why would they have ever seen it? 01:30:34 ehird, ah right. Nowdays that 01:30:34 they never run programs 01:30:36 lots of ways! 01:30:38 apart from IE and word 01:30:43 suppose their computer broke, right 01:30:46 so they had to find some nerd 01:30:52 Pthing: Hi, this is your uncle 01:30:54 Can you fix my computer? 01:30:55 OK, bye. 01:30:58 sure uncle 01:31:00 let me have a look 01:31:01 I'm back, is it done yet? 01:31:04 * Pthing types cmd.exe 01:31:05 Okay, that's good. Bye now. 01:31:11 HEY PTHING, WHAT'S THAT BLACK THING 01:31:12 Pthing, they don't look 01:31:13 Pthing: sorry, i'm already looking away. 01:31:14 sure 01:31:18 I've been asked lots of times 01:31:20 I know this. because I have been in that position 01:31:20 what the black thing is 01:31:23 me too! 01:31:28 they just sit a bit away and look without seeing 01:31:36 i don't fix computers for free any more anyway :P 01:31:50 and possibly ask something at some point but give up at a highly technical answer 01:32:05 oh 01:32:09 ehird, nor do I any more. Except for parents. Due to still living at home this is tactical 01:32:10 anyway, they don't remember the black box 01:32:15 it's not nearly important enough for them to remember 01:32:18 sure they do 01:32:20 black box, it's dos, uhhh okay 01:32:21 drops out of mind 01:32:23 yes 01:32:25 ehird, YES! 01:32:26 but it's still there 01:32:28 next time 01:32:30 they have *been exposed to it* 01:32:33 what's that black box? 01:32:35 it's dos 01:32:36 uhh okay 01:32:38 *leak* 01:32:44 I think 01:32:53 I seriously do think, not being patronising or insulting or anything 01:32:55 ehird, Pthing: It's like the "do you want to run this active x control" leak! 01:33:02 this is due to the OVERWHELMING GAP OF YEARS BETWEEN US 01:33:05 i'm not sure asking an offhand question about a black box and ignoring the answer counts as being exposed 01:33:11 Because you are right 01:33:11 or "security cert invalid" leak 01:33:18 a lot of people have started using computers since 01:33:22 /shrug 01:33:27 Pthing, not such a large gap for me. I'm 19 01:33:31 but 01:33:32 Pthing: 9 years isn't exactly overwhelming. 01:33:36 parents used mac for ages 01:33:42 it is in the magical realm of computers, ehird! 01:33:51 "what's that black box?" 01:33:53 "magic" 01:33:55 ehird, moore's law? 01:34:01 AnMaster: is about silicon. 01:34:01 ehird, try that next time! 01:34:10 ehird, ... yes 01:34:33 ehird, but my point is stuff change fast as a "spin off effect" of that when it comes to computer 01:34:41 mm 01:34:45 this is pointless anyway 01:34:45 So it is this reasoning that makes me think you are mostly incorrect in your assertion. 01:34:47 a 386 couldn't have run a nice UI as xp 01:34:48 Ubuntu seems to me 01:34:57 if I asked a nontechnical ubuntu user what that terminal entry is without clicking on it 01:34:59 to presently be in the same kind of situation that windows computing was in all those years ago 01:35:02 they'd give me a blank stare 01:35:04 ehird, nor would stuff fit on the harddrives from then 01:35:06 Pthing: um, no 01:35:11 most ubuntu users never have to use the terminal 01:35:11 ever 01:35:28 seriously 01:35:28 In the absence of any actual evidence 01:35:35 all either of us has for that is our gut feeling 01:35:39 I think you could easily avoid that yes 01:35:40 i can only give the anecdotal because i'm not running a fucking study 01:35:45 you have your one guy who doesn't know 01:35:46 but it's not a gut feeling 01:35:52 I don't have the one guy 01:35:57 unless you want to make use of more advanced features 01:36:02 even the fucking printer/scanner combo worked without any drivers 01:36:04 in xsane of all things 01:36:13 ehird, um...? and? 01:36:16 it does in gentoo too 01:36:20 xsane isn't exactly the most user-friendly of software 01:36:21 the point is 01:36:26 ehird, well... I have to install cups of course there 01:36:28 in no aspect was it more technical or less user friendly than windows 01:36:30 the truth 01:36:35 is probably somewhere in the middle~~ 01:36:36 but point is, cups and hplip are pre-installed 01:36:37 and, I posit, in most cases it is MORE 01:36:47 so I could just hook my printer/scanner up 01:36:49 let me try 01:36:56 AnMaster: not relevant 01:37:02 I will now close all terminals on the laptop and try the printer 01:37:20 Pthing: i see you're using ubuntu; I believe this is contributing to your bias 01:37:21 specifically 01:37:23 you're technial 01:37:25 technical 01:37:26 and use ubuntu 01:37:33 which means you have to use the terminal and other arcana more 01:37:36 to get your technical stuff done 01:37:41 thus shifting your general perception of ubuntu 01:37:47 Wouldn't have denied it even if you'd asked, and not VERSION'd me! 01:37:59 however, this psychology game goes both ways 01:38:01 versioning requires less cognitive overhead :P 01:38:09 Of course, most of that stuff is stuff you'd use the terminal for on OS X. 01:38:10 by the way: getting this printer to work under windows was a PITA 01:38:14 And probably couldn't do on Windows. 01:38:14 buggy installer 01:38:14 :P 01:38:17 I ACCUSE YOU OF WARCRIMES 01:38:19 specifically 01:38:20 it works flawlessly under linux 01:38:29 I can really recommend HP for printers 01:38:32 overcompensating for YOUR OWN technical wizardry 01:38:40 Pthing: BUT THE TRUMP CARD: 01:38:41 and there it popped up a dialog asking me about the printer on ubuntu 01:38:43 MY ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE 01:38:43 :o 01:38:44 BITCH 01:38:45 :O 01:38:46 D: 01:38:51 ohhhhhhhhhh pwn 01:39:00 AnMaster: Yeah, HP makes good printers and has wonderful Linux support. 01:39:01 asking me to add it with all stuff except letter/a4 filled out correctly 01:39:10 THAT is a bit more than gentoo does 01:39:21 AnMaster: didn't even ask $user on ubuntu 01:39:21 there I have to use the cups webadmin thiny for printing 01:39:24 it just appeared in the print dialog 01:39:31 ehird, user? 01:39:32 huh? 01:39:33 Now, I *would* accept your original, weaker assertion 01:39:40 AnMaster: nontechnical person human. 01:39:46 that there exist *a lot* of Ubuntu users who don't know or use the terminal 01:39:52 That seems undeniable. 01:39:58 ehird, hm 01:40:10 Pthing: i think we're agreeing 01:40:14 If only all of those grannies who have nerdy grandsons 01:40:16 ehird, it asked user here. But everything except paper format correctly filled out 01:40:16 and they set it up 01:40:25 ehird, scanning wouldn't require that though 01:40:27 so they can use the internets and post pictures of cats and jesus and knitting and whatever 01:40:46 Pthing: What, exactly, is your point? 01:40:47 ubuntu's install process consists of blindly clicking next :P 01:40:50 anyway, i gotta go 01:40:54 BECAUSE I'M 13 01:40:57 AND WE SLEEP 01:41:01 My point is that although I entirely agree with this, I suspect ehird is INCORRECT AND NEEDS TO GO FOR A NAP 01:41:04 ehird: LIES 01:41:04 strange but true 01:41:10 we sleep BEFORE SIX AM 01:41:11 :O 01:41:12 → 01:41:17 ← 01:41:19 ehird, um, partitioning has a sane default? 01:41:19 most of the time. 01:41:22 I have no idea 01:41:22 AnMaster: yes. 01:41:23 → 01:41:25 -!- ehird has quit. 01:41:28 heh 01:41:47 right-wing hate groups, though. 01:41:55 Pthing, what about them? 01:42:17 I think I've seen stats for them and they mostly seem to use IE6 01:42:34 Largely, anyway 01:42:44 Pthing, anyway I needed to click next 7 times iirc when installing ubuntu... I was *confused* by it because I'm used to stuff like Arch Linux and Gentoo 01:42:56 I was wondering where on earth package selection was 01:43:00 well man you are having entirely the opposite problem 01:43:27 Pthing, yeah of course 01:43:44 Pthing, I wouldn't be *here* if I was the other type of user would I? 01:44:07 oh and xsane works out of box with no config stuff or installing anything 01:44:12 nice test page printed by cups 01:44:17 Arguably not, no. 01:44:17 they customised it for ubuntu 01:44:24 not the usual cups one 01:44:25 Pthing, ? 01:44:30 you could have stumbled here looking for like 01:44:37 Pthing, the other one 01:44:38 secrets of the rosicrucian freemasons of mu 01:44:38 right 01:44:47 but I have been here for ages about programming 01:44:47 ATLANTIS CHAPTER 01:44:59 2006? 2007? something like that 01:45:25 fun thing: it was ehird who invited me originally 01:46:53 I stick by what I said, btw 01:46:59 Because 01:47:08 My natural tendency is to think the same 01:47:17 Pthing, you mean you are stubborn? 01:47:36 But I keep getting surprised - mildly surprised - by bumping into people who know what the command line is on some level 01:47:46 so I keep having to revise this assumption 01:48:05 It's not a particularly *deep* understanding of it 01:48:14 but it's definite recognition 01:48:15 Pthing, bumping into them where? 01:48:26 Like when I fix their computer 01:48:37 Pthing, what OS does it run? 01:48:37 They're about my age, though 01:48:39 or older 01:48:40 usually 01:48:43 Oh, windows usually 01:48:46 Which is hilarious 01:48:49 because I keep going like 01:48:54 HRRR CD 01:49:01 hm... 01:49:03 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:49:05 they didn't keep the cd? 01:49:06 and then sometimes they ask why I keep making hilarious mistakes 01:49:10 and I have to go :x 01:49:40 Pthing, I refuse to touch any windows computer which lacks cygwin 01:49:47 cygwin is nasty and horrible 01:49:48 BUT 01:49:53 man you are a crazy religious person 01:49:55 "no cygwin" is even worse 01:50:17 i am looking at you now 01:50:19 and I am hearing 01:50:22 STONE ALL ADULTERESSES 01:50:29 DON'T EAT SWINEFLESH 01:50:34 * AnMaster wonders how to make double clicking on a *.aac play the file under ubuntu 01:50:41 I get errors about not being able to decode 01:50:48 and... I don't know about this "totem" 01:50:53 I always used mplayer and vlc 01:51:18 Pthing, yeah right. I'm an atheist :P 01:51:34 but I'm not sure about that either 01:53:04 oh damn crippling for patents 01:53:04 sigh 01:53:25 there are codecs available for it somewhere i think 01:53:32 one of the huge packs, poorly hidden 01:53:56 Pthing, no need for codec since there is libfaad which is open source 01:54:03 it should just be able to use it 01:55:04 sigh whatever, can wait 01:59:15 what is normal temperature for a mobile core2? 01:59:31 I don't like that it easily hits 62 C without fan spinning up 01:59:43 in fact fan seems to always be at close to zero 01:59:45 well 02:00:25 it is reported by acpi as about 1990-2000 RPM all the time... but I never hear any fan noise at all 02:00:28 nor disk 02:23:32 night 02:47:14 http://lonelydino.com/ wooh 02:47:20 Better yet, somebody who is utterly not me will be uploading them :P 02:55:14 my blackboard is almost complete! 02:55:26 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 02:56:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"). 03:57:08 http://lonelydino.com/ wooh content 05:16:53 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 05:20:30 -!- immibis has joined. 05:51:03 -!- immibis has quit ("Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot."). 07:13:07 -!- augur has quit ("Leaving..."). 07:15:56 -!- immibis has joined. 07:41:40 -!- immibis has quit ("A day without sunshine is like .... night"). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:39 GregorR: just out of curiosity, what's the difference between not you, and utterly not you? is it nearly as great as between you and not you? 08:21:08 also is that a daily comic 08:36:36 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:00:58 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 09:01:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 09:02:08 -!- Xiin has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:02:08 -!- evenant has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:02:08 -!- rodgort has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:02:08 -!- Asztal has quit (hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:02:42 -!- Xiin has joined. 09:02:42 -!- evenant has joined. 09:02:42 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:02:42 -!- Asztal has joined. 09:14:00 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:28:41 -!- ehird has joined. 10:30:20 17:50:17 i am looking at you now 10:30:20 17:50:19 and I am hearing 10:30:21 17:50:22 STONE ALL ADULTERESSES 10:30:21 17:50:29 DON'T EAT SWINEFLESH 10:30:21 *g* 10:30:24 17:50:34 * AnMaster wonders how to make double clicking on a *.aac play the file under ubuntu 10:30:30 install the codecs from your local package manager 10:30:44 17:53:56 Pthing, no need for codec since there is libfaad which is open source 10:30:46 um that is a codec 10:31:01 17:59:15 what is normal temperature for a mobile core2? 10:31:01 17:59:31 I don't like that it easily hits 62 C without fan spinning up 10:31:06 send it back send it back! 10:31:07 ehird, oh right 10:31:16 ehird, is it broken? 10:31:30 it never strays over 63 for more than a second though 10:31:30 not necessarily but temperatures >=60 are… not good 10:31:38 AnMaster: what does it idle at? 10:31:54 ehird, idle temp? around 30-35 10:32:02 well that's fine 10:32:10 AnMaster: tweak your bios fan control settings? 10:32:17 ehird, will look at that in a bit 10:32:21 good idea 10:32:33 ehird, btw, fingerprint reader is too new to be supported under linux yet 10:32:43 terrible 10:32:47 how can you cope 10:32:47 someone posted an initial trace of it and there is work under way 10:32:56 ehird, not a major issue for me :P 10:33:33 This Turtle Has An Awesome Orgasm 10:33:34 Um. 10:33:45 ehird, running windows under virtualbox tends to make it hit 58-61 C on one core and a bit lower on the other core 10:33:55 in fact, the second core is always slightly warmer than the other one 10:34:03 27 C vs 31 C atm 10:34:20 I guess one of them is closer to some hot component 10:34:25 AnMaster: check the non-core temperature 10:34:50 ehird, which one? There are like a gazillionplex of temp sensors in this 10:34:55 even battery has one 10:34:57 and ultrabay 10:34:59 and so on 10:35:01 uhm, the cpu one. 10:35:53 ehird, ah overall cpu one... well that one *always* report the same as the hottest core. +/- 1 second update lag. 10:36:26 AnMaster: try stressing the two cpus 10:36:27 i.e. 10:36:39 f () { while true; do; done } 10:36:40 f & f 10:36:45 virtualbox might not max them out 10:37:17 ehird, you need something more for bash to accept that: 10:37:24 so use zsh 10:37:25 :) 10:37:30 change to: 10:37:33 do; :; done 10:37:39 so use zsh! 10:38:00 AnMaster: also, "do :" 10:38:02 temp is rising as expected 10:38:03 you don't need that ; 10:38:07 ehird, true 10:38:16 anyway, just measure what it peaks at. 10:38:31 52/55 atm 10:38:42 that's fine 10:38:52 fan speed has gone from 1908 > 1988 10:38:58 now it is at 53/58 10:39:03 yow, 1988? 10:39:09 that fan's working hard 10:39:13 ehird, I still can't hear the fan 10:39:17 it is the speed reported though 10:39:22 AnMaster: if the fan's at 1988rpm, it should be below 58… 10:39:33 56/61 10:39:34 AnMaster: put your head to it 10:39:37 is the fan actually on? 10:39:46 ehird, hm... maybe not... 10:39:56 might be faulty motor etc 10:40:18 although 60 is quite low for a passive core 2 without a good heatsink… 10:40:27 though I guess the mobile has an effect, obviously 10:40:35 peaked at 63/63 10:42:37 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server"). 10:43:00 ehird, well going to check for fan stuff in bios now. If I can't find anything I'm going to try http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_control_fan_speed 10:43:06 AnMaster: no 10:43:07 to see if I can speed it up 10:43:10 check the fan first physically 10:43:13 i don't think it's on 10:43:18 ehird, where would it be 10:43:19 hm 10:43:26 AnMaster: the hottest place 10:43:26 duh 10:43:33 touch. like with your hands. 10:43:46 (not with your lap. unless you want to be infertile.) 10:44:33 ehird, the hottest place, and probable place for exit air is near where the power cable enter 10:44:35 enters* 10:44:41 just move your ear around 10:44:43 if you hear a fan… 10:44:58 need to change room, my desktop is a bit noisy in the bg.. brb 10:45:32 wait 10:45:33 AnMaster: 10:45:34 Idle temperature is typically around 30-50°C. 10:45:34 Temperature at full utilisation is around 60-70°C. 10:45:39 still 10:45:53 if you can't hear the fan, worth putting it up a bit 10:46:01 (that source is from thinkwiki btw) 10:48:41 ehird, hm ok 10:55:28 64 C now. 10:55:39 * AnMaster just connected to bouncer from laptop 10:55:49 no away log since desktop was never disconnected 10:56:02 ehird, ^ 10:56:06 65 C 10:56:23 nobody said anything 10:56:27 AnMaster: did you tweak the temps? 10:56:28 there is some air flow near the outlet 10:56:33 ehird, hm? 10:56:37 w/ fan 10:56:39 but no fan noise 10:56:42 hmm 10:56:45 absolutely none? 10:56:51 ehird, you mean that fancontrol stuff? No 10:57:02 the computer is completely inaudible with your ear right next to it? 10:57:18 ehird, well with ear next to it there is a very faint sound 10:57:21 could be harddrive 10:57:23 not sure 10:57:31 AnMaster: boot into bios 10:57:32 setup 10:57:36 it won't spin the harddrive there 10:57:38 though harddrive is in the opposite end 10:58:00 and the noise is different with ear nere hd 10:58:09 ehird, ^ 10:58:25 as i said, eliminate the HD from the equation so you can be sure 10:58:54 ehird, also this room is no longer quiet due to mom deciding to melt butter (it's the kitchen) 10:59:09 i'm dissociating that from context and it's funny 10:59:11 * AnMaster moves to living room. 10:59:19 *walks in, gets butter* 10:59:26 *melts butter* 10:59:32 *pours melted butter out* 10:59:34 *walks out* 10:59:38 haha 10:59:45 a job well done! 11:00:33 ehird, peaking at 61/66 atm 11:00:51 system monitor in ubuntu reports 100/100 for cpu load 11:00:58 it doesn't seem to be going higher 11:01:02 ehird, ^ 11:01:12 meh 11:01:14 it should be fine 11:01:20 AnMaster: but 11:01:28 ehird, anyway, there might be a fan noise, but it isn't at 1993 rpm 11:01:28 AnMaster: go in to the bios and force the fan's lowest speed to the highest it can go and then reboot 11:01:35 which is what is reported 11:01:36 1993rpm should really be making noise 11:01:44 if 3000rpm doesn't or whatever, it's not running 11:01:52 ehird, maybe fan speed is misreported 11:02:03 try it, anyway 11:02:04 ehird, didn't see a setting for it in bios... but will look again 11:07:43 ehird, was in bios but found no setting for it 11:07:55 run one of the fan control thingies from thinkwiki then 11:08:00 indeed 11:08:02 just to boost it up temporarily\ 11:08:05 s/\\$// 11:08:08 exactly 11:09:19 "To enable fan control, the module parameter fan_control=1 must be given to thinkpad-acpi. " 11:09:26 http://www.losethos.com/FBI.html is gone :-( 11:09:49 http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:mTVkrnVdYREJ:www.losethos.com/FBI.html+http://www.losethos.com/FBI.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari 11:09:50 yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay 11:10:34 brb 11:10:41 "I hope God is happy. Are you happy, God? God talks to me. I try to make Him happy. I do comics as offerings and He talks back. You have to hold-up your end of the conversation." — losethos2, 2007-11-19, OSnews 11:10:47 Truly irretrievably insane. 11:15:11 -!- anm_ub has joined. 11:15:15 fan works ehird 11:15:17 definitely 11:15:48 WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER 11:15:53 echo level 7 > /proc/ibm/fan # slowly more and more sound, until it reaches a quite noticable level 11:16:03 IBM ey? 11:16:06 who wants to tell them first 11:16:08 ehird, same module 11:16:13 :P 11:16:14 well 11:16:23 module renamed "thinkpad_acpi" 11:16:23 but 11:16:29 renaming interface would break stuff 11:16:44 anyway you are supposed to use /sys nowdays 11:16:49 anyway 11:16:58 if I could execute a command that punches you every time you try and ruin my jokes, i'd… uhh 11:16:59 use it a lot? 11:17:17 ehird, when at most noise reported speed was 3064 RPM 11:17:24 yah 11:17:30 and that was quite low noise level compared to my desktop 11:17:49 where the cpu fan alone is running at around that speed 11:17:58 then there is the GPU fan and the PSU fan 11:18:08 not sure about the speeds of them 11:19:02 ehird, the harddrive seems to make a sound at around the same pitch as a crt monitor when it is seeking btw. But you only hear it with the ear close to 11:19:14 pretty sure every HD does. 11:19:18 by their nature 11:19:42 ehird, well. my desktop makes a much lower freq sound when seeking 11:19:47 well yeah 11:21:15 http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_control_fan_speed#Using_a_stock_kernel <-- a bit wtf though: 11:21:27 If you receive a PERMISSION DENIED error you can use the following command syntax instead as a work-around: 11:21:27 # echo level 0 (fan off) 11:21:36 like, just outputting to the terminal? 11:21:44 well, sure no permission denied 11:21:46 but 11:21:49 not very useful either! 11:22:02 wouldn't call it a "workaround" as such 11:22:13 ehird, ^ 11:22:23 lawl 11:24:28 anyway bbl moving back to usual room 11:24:32 -!- anm_ub has quit ("Leaving"). 11:25:03 farewell 11:27:15 back 11:28:02 http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:mTVkrnVdYREJ:www.losethos.com/FBI.html+http://www.losethos.com/FBI.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari <-- huh what is it about 11:28:27 AnMaster: exactly 11:28:35 I mean, obviously the bible 11:28:37 see yesterday's logs for explanation; basically he's a totally crazy nutjob that has a really, really crazy operating system 11:28:44 and posts on reddit about it 11:28:45 but I don't understand what about it 11:28:46 and is hilariously insane 11:28:50 and his OS is hilariously insane 11:29:03 ehird, it talks about c:\* and such so it runs on top of windows? 11:29:05 is it an os that asks god what the user wants to do so the user doesn't have to do anything 11:29:17 AnMaster: the os is a "secondary" one because it's useless as shit 11:29:23 heh 11:29:28 AnMaster: from "tongues", anyway, I guess it's basically grabbing random words from the bible 11:29:32 what the hell is a "secondary OS" 11:29:43 some choice reddit posts of his: 11:29:53 [[I used to argue with the answerbook.]] // no context whatsoever to this one 11:29:59 [[There is no GPL code in LoseThos, it's 100% professional quality.]] 11:30:04 when questioned wtf he meant: 11:30:08 [[By definition, it's not professional.]] 11:30:18 he keeps resubmitting his os with a different title 11:30:19 over and over 11:30:27 [[I think it's funny -- if you presented God of the old testament to people in disguise, they'd call Him Satan! people have a proud of heart notion of God that they could never sincerely love. Mom said heaven is a never ending family reunion! Be careful what you wish for, though, God told me war was "servicemen competing". Yikes! 11:30:27 God says... etexts smell remittest really necessarily died harbouring adorned glided neglecting slumbers list passing AM very recite protect wearied moments Gutenberg preventedst directing 11:30:27 I'd like to share a couple hilarious passages from the old Testament, but they're too long. The book of Numbers chapter 11 is hilarious.]] 11:30:39 I don't think etexts is in the bible; some other corpus 11:30:50 [[Don't be an America hater. Don't reject gifts from God. Little girls are made of sugar and spice... God gives toys, not just cloths on Christmas:]] // ew 11:31:00 [[if you guys really care about abortion, why don't you argue from the Bible? There's plenty of stuff to support abortion. At issue is hatred of religion. 11:31:00 What's up with feminazi lesbo's who love dead babies? I don't get it? Why do they care so much about making dead babies? 11:31:01 Pearls of wisdom: evolution obsessed people are all NAZI's who want to exterminate blacks. Pro-choice women are all lesbo's.]] 11:31:03 ↑ that's my favourite 11:31:10 um 11:31:16 he's totally crazy :D 11:31:17 is he a bible fanatic or hater? 11:31:22 that about satan above 11:31:27 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:31:30 he's christian but i don't even know 11:31:54 he says he's an "evolutionist" and "believes" in evolution (total fail there already) then goes and compares it to nazism 11:32:03 [[Umm... You're not confusing Godtalk with spam, are you? Stare at it a while and you'll begin to comprehend. haven't you read the Bible? interpreting stuff from God is a skill.]] 11:32:16 on this post: 11:32:21 Dear reddit, can you do something about spam? 11:32:22 Lately I am seeing a lot of spam on "rising" and "new" sections of proggit. May be signing up on reddit is easier and hence spamming reddit is easier, but reddit needs to do something about it (also folks visiting "rising" and "new" sections should downvote such links) 11:32:26 yeah losethos 11:32:31 they're talking about your god talk. 11:33:07 [[strawman. I think you're full of shit. Straw man is when you pick a silly example of your opponents position and argue with that. Like picking no vaccine, men on dinosaur, religious people to argue against religion.]] // on a post that was merely a story about an ultra-NIH programmer and didn't mention him 11:33:09 sensitive sensitive 11:33:23 [[Most other "64-bit" operating systems still have 4Gig address maps, I'm pretty sure.]] // no point even bothering to show the rest of the comment 11:33:29 downside of black laptop compared to white: fingerprints on outside clearly visible as areas of deeper black 11:33:51 wouldn't be visible on one of those white macbooks 11:33:57 not sure about the last ones 11:33:59 [[Try Losethos, http://www.losethos.com for master/slave multicore with no abstraction -- direct control for dividing tasks and specifying which cores to run them on. See http://www.losethos.com/flightsim.html for a video of an 8 core flight simulator video with code.]] // master/slave without abstraction? dude! do you hate lincoln or something? 11:34:06 they are metal again right? 11:34:08 AnMaster: yes but dust shows up very easily on white 11:34:22 AnMaster: the plain MacBook is white/black plastic 11:34:26 ehird, that is true. easier to brush off 11:34:35 the MacBook Pro (Pro now means the design… :\) now has a 13" model 11:34:40 the actual MacBook is really just entry level 11:34:41 ehird, wasn't there some "whole body" thingy recently... 11:34:51 all the pros are unibody (not separate case components, all one thing) aluminium 11:34:54 with a glass screen cover 11:34:54 unitard? 11:34:58 unibody! 11:35:15 ehird, that makes changing battery a pain 11:35:22 nice marketing concept 11:35:30 AnMaster: that's fine; the battery isn't replaceable by the user anyway. 11:35:37 ehird, what about ram 11:35:39 you do have an apple store near you right? 11:35:42 can you install extra ram 11:35:49 AnMaster: uhh, I think so, yes… 11:35:57 ehird, that was sarcastic right? 11:36:01 no 11:36:02 about apple store close 11:36:06 no 11:36:22 AnMaster: note that the new macbook pro batteries are rated for a long time 11:36:30 ehird, answer: No. About 4 hours away by train assuming trains are on time (they aren't usually) 11:36:31 * ehird checks 11:36:37 AnMaster: I didn't mean you personally 11:36:48 by car? Add a few hours 11:37:06 AnMaster: the top-end model (with a 17" 1920x1200 screen, so you know this thing's beefy)'s battery can last up to 8 hours 11:37:09 prolly more like 6 11:37:15 but when's the battery life 11:37:17 hmm 11:37:27 i recall hearing it lasts a long time, anyway 11:37:37 err 11:37:39 when's? 11:37:42 when is? 11:37:45 *where's 11:37:49 ah 11:37:55 that makes more sense in the context 11:38:26 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/macbook-unibody-faq/macbook-macbook-pro-unibody-how-to-upgrade-ram.html 11:38:28 6 hours? 11:38:29 Have two memory slots that you access by removing the access door, battery, and bottom case. Your MacBook [or MacBook Pro] comes with at least 2 GB (1 GB in each slot) of 1066 MHz Double Date Rate (DDR3) Synchronous Dynamic Random-Access Memory (SDRAM) installed. 11:38:34 oklopol: yeah 11:38:39 ehird, the fan sure is quiet on this thing though. Compared to the fan on mom's macbook. when it spins up you can definitely hear it 11:38:44 that's with like a 2.8ghz core 2 processor and 4gb of ram 11:38:56 pretty sweet battery life 11:39:09 ehird, how many cycles is it rated for 11:39:14 yah, 17" stock model is 2.8ghz core 2 duo, 4gb ddr3 ram, 500gb hd 11:39:24 the battery I mean 11:39:28 AnMaster: let's see 11:39:32 The lifespan of a battery is measured in recharges. One recharge is a complete charge and discharge of a battery’s energy. A recharge doesn’t necessarily occur every time you plug in your notebook; many partial charges can add up to a single full recharge. The typical battery delivers about 200 to 300 recharges before its capacity declines to approximately 80 percent. At that point the battery still works, but its performance is diminished. Thanks to th 11:39:36 http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery/ 11:39:52 that to t? 11:39:53 e breakthroughs of advanced chemistry and Adaptive Charging, the battery in the 13-, 15-, and 17-inch MacBook Pro can go through up to 1000 recharges before it reaches 80 percent of its original capacity — nearly three times the lifespan of typical notebook batteries.2 11:40:00 thanks* 11:40:02 so: great 11:40:12 they also made em flat and stacked and packed them 11:40:15 right 11:40:16 instead of using circular ones 11:40:18 which is... "no duh" 11:40:31 6 hours would almost make it useful for things other than taking it in the crapper or just moving it around with the power cable temporarily off 11:40:32 ehird, circular? Does any laptop have circular ones? 11:40:36 AnMaster: yes: 11:40:38 http://images.apple.com/macbookpro/overlays/images/size20090106.jpg 11:40:41 all 11:40:43 apart from these ones 11:41:01 oklopol: just get one of those targa netbooks 11:41:02 ehird, well they look quite square. but I guess the cells inside may be circular 11:41:07 i guess what i mean is 6 hours isn't a complete joke. 11:41:08 oklopol: with the screen off they manage ~28 days of battery life iirc 11:41:13 AnMaster: duh, that's the whole point 11:41:14 it's just a crappy battery :P 11:41:16 ehird, oh Li-polymer 11:41:19 cool 11:41:24 oklopol: with it on, prolly like >24hrs 11:41:31 :o 11:41:35 okay, that i could live with 11:41:44 oklopol: of course the caveat is that… it's not exactly powerful 11:41:48 iirc it's an 800mhz arm 11:41:52 for comparison 11:41:56 the iphone 3g s is a 600mhz arm 11:42:06 so you get a laptop that's… faster than a smartphone! 11:42:09 800mhz is about 800 times more than i need 11:42:26 the iphone 3g s is a 600mhz arm <-- insane for a phone 11:42:32 does it have a fan too? 11:42:35 :D 11:42:35 AnMaster: that's good because it's not a phone 11:42:38 and no, ARM runs really cool 11:42:40 not even a heatsink 11:42:41 i could do with my calculator if it had a nicer keyboard and a better programming environment 11:42:51 AnMaster: anyway, only f00lz buy the iphone because it's a phone 11:42:54 ehird, why are they so cool compared to intel or such 11:42:57 and if it compiled its basic 11:43:06 AnMaster: because x86 is fucking terrible, and ARM is an embedded RISC 11:43:27 That's not "insane for a phone" if you define insanity from what other people do; they're already using the 1 GHz Snapdragon in phones, I think. Or at least it's going to be used in phone models that are already announced, anyway. 11:43:28 ehird, well... I guess the instruction set affects it a lot 11:43:29 anyway, the phone contract is just a vehicle because sometimes phonecalls and texts are kinda nice to have and because it gets you wireless internet 11:43:34 and to get it distributed 11:43:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:43:44 smartphones are for the smart part 11:43:58 ehird, so why aren't there laptops with high performance arm cpus 11:44:01 kinda nice to be able to do shit without, you know, taking off your bag, opening it 11:44:04 getting a laptop out 11:44:07 and putting it all back 11:44:15 AnMaster: Windows doesn't run on ARM. 11:44:28 ehird, windows mobile? 11:44:32 Also, I'm fairly sure ARM isn't quite as awesome at the higher speeds and the like. 11:44:36 hm ok 11:44:37 AnMaster: …is a mobile operating system. 11:44:48 ehird, *moves the laptop* 11:44:50 There are ARM-based tablet PCs, though. That's almost a laptop, but not quite. 11:44:57 ;P 11:45:17 * Sgeo watches Firefox take a long time to load 11:45:22 Guess which OS I'm on today! 11:45:35 Sgeo, windows? 11:45:35 Sgeo: the didn't upgrade to firefox 3.5.1 because you're a fucking dumbass OS? 11:45:40 :D 11:45:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_TG01 ;; this phone looks like a terrible waste of a 1ghz cpu 11:45:51 I did upgrade to 3.5.1 11:45:54 Actually I guess there were at least plans for "netbook"-form-factor ARM laptops. 11:45:58 It still takes a long time 11:46:03 Sgeo: then your computer is just really slow. 11:46:13 fizzie: yeah they exist i'm sure 11:46:16 also that targa thign ofc 11:46:17 thing 11:46:18 like i said 11:46:32 ahh, this is still my favourite thing ever: 11:46:36 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8kgvj/losethos_64bit_operating_system_v506_released_not/c09kmnw 11:46:36 firefox takes long to load, a page does, or a firefox installer you're dl'ing? 11:46:38 * Sgeo opens Chrome in the meantime 11:46:38 darwin is part of linux 11:46:41 it's konquer not konqueror 11:46:45 those have something to do with nazism 11:46:54 people who think evolution is true want to kill of dumb people 11:46:57 *off 11:46:57 "In June 2009 Qualcomm showed off an ASUS Eee PC‎ using the Snapdragon processor and running Google's Android. [5] At the same event, ASUS also showed a Snapdragon-based device, then withdrew it abruptly. Rumors attribute the withdrawal to pressure exerted by Microsoft. [6] [7]" Heh. 11:46:59 …he is an evolutionist 11:47:02 atheist operating systems! 11:47:11 in fact there isn't more than a few words that aren't hilarious. 11:47:19 oklopol: firefox takes long to load, I gathered 11:47:41 ehird: just making sure, because while that's what it means, that's the one i can't imagine happening. 11:47:50 oklopol: he has a pentium iii or something 11:47:57 right. 11:47:58 hey guys, anyone want to donate an Itanium to me 11:47:59 ...He's saying that Linux is an atheist OS to promote his own OS? 11:48:02 i love crazy processors! 11:48:05 Sgeo: no, he's just rambling 11:48:07 because he's fucking insane. 11:48:26 "LoseThos has a bible theme. It has a special kernel task called "Adam", father of all tasks" 11:48:34 this is a guy who picks random words from a corpus and posts them to reddit along with attached "questions" to god 11:48:37 and calls it "godspeak" 11:48:56 there's a word for these people and it's called schizophrenia. or something else. 11:48:59 some mental illness anyway. 11:49:04 (↑ not the punchiest sentence ever) 11:49:06 darwin is part of linux <-- ? 11:49:14 didn't you mean OS X 11:49:14 AnMaster: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8kgvj/losethos_64bit_operating_system_v506_released_not/c09kmnw 11:49:21 plz2b comprehending context 11:49:21 does the name mean like loseth OS, as in 1st, 2nd, 3rd... loseth 11:49:32 oklopol: :D 11:49:33 ehird, oh right 11:49:39 like there are so many oses it's stupid to make another one 11:49:47 that's how i interpreted it 11:49:49 http://www.losethos.com/images/Header.JPG 11:49:55 he capitalises it LoseThos 11:50:15 I pronounce it mentally as "LosseyThos" 11:50:16 or something to do with lesotho, but not sure what that could be 11:50:23 because "Lose Thos" makes no fucking sense 11:50:27 so my brain corrects it for me 11:50:28 * AnMaster considers mixing all the nutjobs 11:50:34 ehird, wouldn't that be fun? 11:50:48 TimeLoseCube? 11:50:58 AnMaster: that's been done. i think by a guy called abdul something. abdul alhazred. 11:50:59 and that is only TWO 11:51:03 the mad arab, they called him 11:51:05 He may be insane, but that image is kind of cool 11:51:14 Sgeo: …that image is cool? 11:51:17 well gee he can type a few letters 11:51:19 ehird, Lovecraft... 11:51:21 hah 11:51:22 and extend the tendrils of some 11:51:24 hah hah 11:51:26 he's a freakin' genious 11:51:28 ... 11:51:29 genius 11:51:35 I didn't say it was awesome 11:51:42 whatevs :P 11:52:03 hmm 11:52:13 i wanna buy one of the bacon-fragranced reddit alien soaps 11:52:18 i hope they taste like bacon too! 11:52:26 [[Yes, our soaps are Vegan.]] 11:52:27 damn 11:52:32 it's not real bacon fragrance :( 11:52:55 It's a no brainer that the main thing keeping people from using LoseThos is the graphics 11:53:01 ^^quoted 11:53:31 Sgeo: listen to the demo video on the main page 11:53:34 he sounds crazed 11:53:44 http://www.losethos.com/memory.html don't use it for anything requiring security. I guess it sounds fun, but not as a main OS 11:54:40 ehird, I wonder why desktops are so much louder than laptops... It should be possible to make them about the same noise level. Sure they are generally faster. But they are not as cramped inside either, so easier to allow air to move. 11:55:07 " I can delete the Bible 11:55:07 and cut the install size, too" 11:55:13 There's a built-in Bible? 11:55:35 Or is that referring to something else? (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DEAR GOD) 11:55:43 okay, losethos sounds great 11:56:56 "I capitalized the libraries. They're not standard" 11:56:59 * Sgeo facepalms 11:57:08 It was sounding interesting until right about then 11:57:32 what 11:57:53 capitalized the libraries? 11:58:17 oklopol, watch the video 11:58:22 PrintF() 11:58:50 maybe at some point 11:59:23 Sgeo: it has a built in bible yeah 11:59:26 hymns too 11:59:34 Sgeo: anyway it's not interesting 11:59:37 he didn't want to buffer the screen 11:59:42 so it's just 640x480x4 11:59:48 but it only works on 64 bit! 11:59:50 ehird, you are good at fonts. Name a good serif font. That is available for TeX 11:59:52 he says he has 12GB of RAM! 12:00:00 AnMaster: for screen or print 12:00:12 ehird, one for each 12:00:17 ehird, I know next-to-nothing about graphics programming 12:00:24 AnMaster: why not computer modern :-P 12:00:36 So I think things like that are understandable.. although maybe asking for advice would have been helpful for him 12:00:37 ehird, it is a bit awkward on screen in pdfs at least 12:00:40 Sgeo: basically, he could have added about 30 lines and supported 1920x1200x32 12:00:42 bitmapped right? 12:00:43 well 12:00:44 METAFONT 12:00:52 AnMaster: metafont is very not bitmapped 12:00:53 so rendered to pre-pared bitmapped ones 12:00:56 iirc 12:01:11 AnMaster: so you're using xetex then? 12:01:28 ehird, that or pdftex. Depends on which is easiest 12:01:35 pdftex… uses metafont. 12:01:38 >_< 12:01:40 ehird, yes 12:01:45 AnMaster: just 'sudo apt-get install texlive' and you have xetex 12:01:48 'It's pretty dumb to have characters signed, so I made them unsigned" If you're going to be changing the language like this, can you add automatic buffer overflow checking? kthx 12:01:49 ehird, I'm probably going for xetex though 12:01:55 ehird, it's installe 12:01:57 installed* 12:01:58 right 12:02:01 AnMaster: well 12:02:02 but question is about lyx 12:02:09 ah both seems easy in lyx 12:02:16 AnMaster: do you have the requirement of it being free-as-in-richard-m-stallman? 12:02:48 ehird, that would be *preferred* but I'm willing to go for a bit more closed if I have to 12:03:06 AnMaster: if that is your actual restriction, you get to choose between bistream/deja or liberation. 12:03:07 "I made another syntax change" Please, for the love of all that is C(?:\+\+)?, stop 12:03:09 ((they both suck)) 12:03:20 for legally-free-as-in-beer, I may have something 12:03:21 sec 12:03:24 ehird, it seems helvetica is available for tex already 12:03:29 at least lyx claims it is installe 12:03:32 installed* 12:03:35 AnMaster: probably bitmap 12:03:37 which is worthless 12:03:38 but that is sans-serif of course 12:03:53 x11 ships with bitmap helvetica 12:04:13 ehird, not sure how to install a font for use with xetex though. I used pdftex before and I always used distro package manger to handle tex 12:04:22 duno 12:04:23 dunno 12:04:28 * AnMaster googles then 12:04:28 "Everything runs in kernel-mode" Ok for a system where security doesn't matter at all, I guess 12:04:53 AnMaster: for free-as-in-beer your options are still very limited as the free font landscape essentially consists of all the stupid novelty fonts on crappy sites with a bunch of popups 12:04:54 but 12:05:02 exljbris appears to have released a font this year designed for text! 12:05:03 http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/calluna.html 12:05:06 his fonts are truly graet 12:05:06 "Everything runs in kernel-mode" Ok for a system where security doesn't matter at all, I guess <-- google: Inferno OS 12:05:08 *great 12:05:15 if it mentions plan9 you hit the right place 12:05:23 AnMaster: ugh, sorry 12:05:26 Calluna comes in 8 fonts: Light, Regular, Regular+Italic, Semibold+Italic,Bold+Italic and Black. 12:05:26 The regular is absolutely free. 12:05:26 Download Calluna at MyFonts.com 12:05:40 AnMaster: total is $119 :( 12:05:46 well 12:05:49 calluna sucks 12:05:53 ehird, what about OS X ones then 12:06:03 ehird, I assume you have some and are willing to share 12:06:14 AnMaster: i was assuming this was under the proviso of legal? 12:06:23 well 12:06:24 * AnMaster googles define: 12:06:25 might be legal for you 12:06:28 define:proviso * 12:06:33 sweden's wacky liberal copyright laws and all 12:07:27 ehird, sadly that is a myth. They are rather strict. Most don't care. Same as everywhere except we got a political party against them too 12:07:45 yeah i guess that died out with the pirate bay trial 12:08:07 lemme check font book 12:10:52 ehird, find some good serifs and sans serifs, both for printing and for screen 12:10:52 :) 12:10:56 i am sheesh 12:11:12 ehird, I believe in your ability in this area! 12:11:44 you realise I'm quite an amateur and have, in fact, never placed any text to an inked page :D 12:11:56 well i mean i've printed stuff 12:11:58 ehird, well, I don't know anyone that is more pro 12:11:58 but that was Before 12:12:04 also that's not comparable to printing a book 12:12:27 AnMaster: the non-FOSS serif text fonts I have are: Baskerville, Big Caslon, Cochin, Didot, …I'd say Georgia but don't go there…, Hoefler Text (<3 this one), I'll omit the asian ones…, Times (I will kill you in your sleep), Times New Roman (moreso), Zapfino (lawl) and Apple Chancery (also lawl) 12:12:44 try wp 12:12:48 what is wrong with Georgia? 12:12:48 hoefler text is very nice 12:12:54 AnMaster: it's like verdana 12:12:56 web-quality 12:12:59 ehird, ah 12:13:11 would look bad on paper even if it doesn't on screen anyway 12:13:22 "It can not properly be edited with 12:13:22 other editors, even, because there are graphics and links in source code. " 12:13:33 Sgeo: i'm all for non-textual source code, mind 12:13:35 but bleh 12:13:38 AnMaster: heh "Hoefler Text is used on the Wikipedia logo." 12:13:39 Hm, how did he start out making it, before the OS came into existance? 12:13:47 ehird, is the diff between 10.4 and 10. fonts large? 12:13:56 I can find 10.4 fonts easily 12:13:59 Sgeo: http://www.losethos.com/contact.html 12:14:10 AnMaster: they're identical. but i can trivially send them to you anyway 12:14:24 "As of the inauguration, Hoefler Text is also used on the official website of the White House." 12:14:27 could do with an "Obama" there 12:14:29 but they're right 12:14:38 not in any text though 12:14:48 it's good for logos? 12:14:53 i suppose so 12:14:59 is that what you are saying I mean 12:15:04 i guess it doesn't work too well on small type/paper 12:15:21 AnMaster: i'm not entirely sure why, btw, you're okay with nicking fonts from an OS but not elsewhere :-P 12:15:53 AnMaster: hoefler text: http://typography.com/images/overviewPageImages/hoeflertext_cell_01.png 12:15:56 I decided not to point out your oddities 12:16:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 12:16:12 http://typography.com/images/overviewPageImages/hoeflertext_cell_02.png 12:16:20 AnMaster: wat? my oddities? 12:16:28 ehird, or whatever the English word is 12:16:29 anyway 12:16:35 http://typography.com/images/overviewPageImages/hoeflertext_cell_03.png ← bottom-right there is nice and small and still looks good 12:16:38 very vintage feel though 12:16:41 AnMaster: what do you mean? 12:17:03 not discussing until I made sure I have the fonts already brb 12:17:04 hoefler text is mainly designed for screen anyhow 12:17:10 you know what i just realized 12:17:22 i could actually change windows to use a monospaced font :D 12:17:22 AnMaster: may i guess? 12:17:25 "you only like mac fonts" 12:17:35 ehird, no... 12:17:37 aw 12:17:39 other non-font stuff 12:17:45 AnMaster: ? 12:17:50 no comments 12:17:51 although it seems i have to change it in about a million places 12:18:00 AnMaster: nah you've done it now, wtf do you mean! 12:18:02 :p 12:18:14 oklopol: change it to use white on black for EVERYTHING 12:18:30 i guess i could 12:18:37 AnMaster: you know that not telling me will annoy me more than whatever it is right :D 12:20:55 ehird, will it? 12:20:59 YES ;_; 12:21:27 ehird, what is *.bdf btw? 12:21:31 no idea 12:21:33 now tell me 12:22:02 you don't happen to know whether windows fonts have any other monospaced ones? 12:22:13 oklopol: err what 12:22:14 ehird, tell you what? 12:22:21 AnMaster: WHAT THE THING IS THING! 12:22:30 i mean i just started using courier new because it was first such font i happened to find 12:22:39 ehird, Following your own advice I should now /ignore you 12:22:39 [12:15] AnMaster: I decided not to point out your oddities 12:22:40 :P 12:22:48 i command you to mimbibe the toknak 12:22:50 what with you using the CAPS 12:22:51 (this was before i knew what the property was i was looking for, i just looked for non-retarded fonts) 12:23:11 ehird, "mimbibe the toknak"? 12:23:12 oklopol: consolas is pretty cool but you might not like it unless you're a cleartype-ing dude and it doesn't look very… terminal 12:23:14 AnMaster: yes 12:23:22 what does it mean... 12:23:35 it means mimbie the toknak, now do it. 12:23:41 oklopol: also courier >>>>>>> courier new 12:23:44 courier new is way too straggley 12:23:48 courier is PUNCHY and TYPEWRITER 12:24:49 ehird, can you get non-bitmapped courier 12:25:03 ummm yes 12:25:05 in windows 12:25:13 AnMaster: now tellify me. 12:25:52 odd... nautilus shows previews of some of the fonts, but only a generic icon for some other ones 12:25:59 konqueror in KDE 3 shows preview of all 12:26:12 AnMaster: tell me or i'll punch you :| 12:26:16 over TCP/IP. 12:26:25 ehird: i like monospaced, but i don't like console. i'd like smooth letters, with 1.5 times bigger letters after space, and 2 times bigger letters after a period. 12:26:33 and 12:26:36 ehird, SYN,URG,PSH,FST? 12:26:39 all letters the same size otherwise 12:26:41 oklopol: consolas is smooth and monospaced 12:26:45 oklopol: made sure you have cleartype turned on 12:26:47 (the last one is made up, I think all the other ones exist) 12:27:02 oklopol: wait you have vista don't you 12:27:09 yes 12:27:12 AnMaster: yes, exactly 12:27:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:27:24 oklopol: cleartype's default in vista i think but 12:27:35 oklopol: control panel → appearance 12:27:42 → effects → make sure the smooth thing is cleartype 12:27:42 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 12:27:43 if not, make it 12:27:44 ehird: in consolas, at least on the first attempt, the letters don't look very uniform in thickness. 12:27:45 once I found where to install fonts in gnome: yes 12:27:51 "attempt" 12:27:51 oklopol: probably no cleartype 12:27:52 try it anyway 12:27:52 ... 12:27:57 AnMaster: you drag it to the fonts folder. 12:28:05 ehird, where is that though 12:28:08 yes, without cleartype, Consolas is disgusting 12:28:12 AnMaster: dunno, I just use fonts:// 12:28:27 where is the place you enter path in nautilus 12:28:29 *fonts:/// 12:28:30 AnMaster: menu 12:28:32 it seems to be missing an adress bar 12:28:45 that's a feature :P 12:28:57 oklopol: anyhow if you have cleartype on consolas should pretty much fit the bill 12:28:58 ehird, it says fonts:/// is invalid 12:28:59 you crazy man 12:29:02 AnMaster: hmm 12:29:06 AnMaster: how are you doing it anyway 12:29:16 ehird, in KDE you mean? 12:29:18 well 12:29:18 font installation in gnome could be better tbh 12:29:20 AnMaster: ah 12:29:24 I open kcontrol 12:29:28 and go to "install fonts" 12:29:36 and then drag the fonts there 12:29:43 oklopol: here's what consolas should look like: 12:30:09 ehird: okay i switched to high contrast black, damn this is hardcore :D 12:30:11 oklopol: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/WindowsLiveWriter/Insearchoftheperfectmonospacedprogrammer_148A9/consolas%5B4%5D.png or http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Consolas-cleartype.png or http://blog.hamstu.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/typoofcode_consolas.png 12:30:21 the form...ost one being the best looking 12:30:31 amusing that consolasa is very… unconsole 12:30:38 oklopol: that has some non-black stuff iirc! 12:30:42 make sure it's all either #000 or #FFF! 12:30:45 well yes, tons :| 12:30:46 usability be damned! 12:31:00 also i haven't switched the fonts yet 12:31:03 i'll do that 12:31:07 oklopol: anyhow does that consolas look good? 12:31:23 if it does and it doesn't look like that on your machine, you gotsa turn cleartype on 12:31:30 actually it does, very much so 12:32:04 on your machine or? 12:32:07 that sentence is the vague 12:32:27 no sorry in your link (first one). 12:32:34 right 12:32:49 [12:27] ehird: oklopol: control panel → appearance 12:32:49 [12:27] ehird: → effects → make sure the smooth thing is cleartype 12:32:57 in case it looks rather less gooderific in windows 12:33:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:34:03 cleartype isn't where you said it'd be 12:34:11 it's not there :| 12:34:24 oklopol: well 12:34:27 right there's a search feature... 12:34:30 wait a mo :P 12:34:31 :P 12:34:36 oklopol: you don't want "tune cleartype" 12:34:38 or anything 12:34:39 is the topic set as it is to annoy augur? 12:34:40 just actually turning it on 12:34:45 ais523: why? 12:34:55 okay it is one 12:34:55 *on 12:35:00 he removed the last one because of all the special characters 12:35:01 oklopol: was it on or is it just on now? 12:35:06 ais523: no, because it was right-to-left 12:35:06 ehird, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fonts#Manually 12:35:07 :) 12:35:09 ais523, hi 12:35:10 ehird: ah 12:35:33 it was on.. 12:35:36 *-. 12:36:03 ehird: also it was exactly where you said it would be. 12:36:06 xD 12:36:13 at least almost exactly 12:36:15 oklopol: i eagerly look forward to this #000 and #FFF and Consolas only nightmare 12:40:23 i like it 12:40:29 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 12:41:16 but really i'd like to redesign the whole gui 12:41:34 to consist of mostly antialiased lines. 12:42:07 oklopol: did you set all the colours to either #000 or #FFF 12:42:13 with #FFF being strictly foreground and #000 being strictly background 12:42:14 please say yes 12:42:16 that'd be awesome 12:42:23 it would tell everyone who sees my computer i'm not just a geek, i'm a fucking nutjob 12:42:34 tell me you did :( 12:42:53 it would change this thing very little 12:43:07 oklopol: yes but you'll be 10% more awesome 12:43:11 i have discovered this with science 12:43:11 i mean most colors are just because there are so many little icons around 12:43:13 in fact i'm going to do it 12:43:15 in my windows 7 vm 12:43:17 oklopol: well icons are okay 12:43:21 i mean the stuff in the appearance prefs 12:43:27 i bet the title bar is white-background, for instance 12:43:33 and also massive icons, they are the default for the theme it seems 12:43:33 oklopol: anyway i'm gonna race you with my windows vm 12:43:35 which is weird. 12:43:37 you'd better do it if you want to WIN 12:43:39 also 12:43:49 it's for visual disabled acuity peeps 12:43:52 you know, like blindtarded 12:44:05 well i guess i knew that 12:44:11 by weird i didn't mean it's actually weird 12:44:19 haha i'm gonna call people with uncontrollable disabilities thing-tarded from now 12:44:22 "you're cancertarded" 12:44:30 more like expressing an opinion, not that i know what that opinion was. 12:44:30 *from now on 12:44:38 maybe that this should be the default for people who aren't idiots. 12:44:40 oklopol: using a black and white theme? 12:44:42 "oh yeah? well what about you? you used to be braintumortarded" 12:44:46 go for it 12:44:51 ais523: #FFF on #000 with the only font being the monospaced Consolsa 12:44:54 *Consolas 12:45:04 although not totally #000 background #FFF foreground, thus why i'm racing him with my vm 12:45:06 (to make him do it) 12:45:14 oklopol: you should buy a 1-bit display 12:45:21 ehird: I think it's a good idea 12:45:32 ais523: kinda bad for usability :D 12:45:35 oklopol: like the kinda stuff they use in calculators 12:45:40 it'd be awesome 12:45:41 calcuputer 12:45:55 ehird: grey on black is pretty easy on the eyes 12:45:58 in terms of not being very bright 12:46:04 ais523: that's not the point 12:46:10 and where the fuck can i find some kinda folder options to change the folder icons..? 12:46:12 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 12:46:12 #FFF on #000 for _everything_ removes visual hints 12:46:19 which makes it slower to use 12:46:23 and monospaced fonts are slower to read than proportional 12:46:26 but oklopol isn't human 12:46:26 so 12:46:28 ehird: more peaceful, though 12:46:35 I mean, OK it obviously isn't the fastest theme to use 12:46:45 but it would be nicer, in a way 12:46:46 ais523: it is possible to have a theme with visual hints without having it use primary colours 12:46:50 see for example plan 9 12:46:52 for instance, I'm much faster with a keyboard than with a mouse 12:47:02 argh 12:47:04 stop saying that 12:47:07 but sometimes I like to use a computer just with a mouse, so I don't have to get in reach of the keyboard 12:47:11 your brain says you're faster, subjectively 12:47:12 the stopwatch doesn't 12:47:14 if you want a fast interface, use a console :| 12:47:22 i only care about pretty look. 12:47:23 and no, i won't link to the studies yet again, i'm busy retheming windows 12:47:25 ehird: having to find and attach a mouse is generally slower than just typing 12:47:27 *rethemeing 12:47:32 ais523: strawman 12:47:37 ehird: not for me 12:47:43 I'm pretty sure those studies assume a usable mouse 12:47:45 "mice are bad because I have to find one and attach one" 12:47:47 completely wrong 12:47:48 what you mean is 12:47:55 "mice that i have to find and attach are bad because i have to find one and attach one" 12:47:58 what I mean is "for /me/, a keyboard is faster than a mouse" 12:48:01 s/\bi\b/I/g 12:48:04 ais523: for YOU, on THAT COMPUTER 12:48:07 yes 12:48:08 for me 12:48:10 it's a very important distinction 12:48:11 this is the point I'm getting at 12:48:28 it essentially amounts to "why doesn't your thing work well on my broken computer" 12:48:30 it's the same problem you make with AnMaster, you keep giving him advice that's correct in general but incorrect with respect to him 12:48:36 would you replace your computer if half the keys didn't work? 12:48:38 presumably 12:48:44 ehird: 2 of the keys don't 12:48:51 ok, you're just crazy then\ 12:48:53 s/\\$// 12:48:56 but they're stop and skip to next track 12:49:02 neither of which is particularly vital 12:49:05 in general a keyboard is faster than a mouse. For most stuff. 12:49:13 for me too 12:49:19 AnMaster: please don't make me stab you 12:49:26 I reprogrammed the skip to previous track button to skip to the next track, in order to have the feature available 12:49:38 THE HUMAN MIND THINKS THE KEYBOARD IS SUBJECTIVELY FASTER! IT IS AN _ILLUSION_! for pointing purposes, the mouse is _faster_ 12:49:43 and a _lot_ of things are faster as pointing tasks 12:49:51 ehird: ooh, another point; I'm pretty sure a mouse can only be faster than a keyboard if you're looking at the screen 12:50:01 ehird, "most stuff". I didn't say using gimp would be faster without a mouse 12:50:02 did I? 12:50:10 ais523: haha, you're funny, can't touch type? 12:50:17 ehird: I can touch type 12:50:19 AnMaster: that's greatly underestimating how much is better with a mouse 12:50:19 but I can't touch click 12:50:25 for example, the acme editor is almost entirely mouse based 12:50:36 ais523, that is a good point 12:50:47 ais523: touch typing is used for typing while looking at the screen, mostly 12:50:49 ehird: like what? not saying you're not correct, just interested in what you had in mind. 12:50:52 anyway, nobody makes decisions when loking away 12:50:58 you don't close buffer or save file while looking at someone 12:50:58 i mean 12:51:00 because your attention is reduced 12:51:02 what's faster with pointing 12:51:06 ehird, what about typing in a name from a paper? 12:51:07 incidentally, this is why KDE and the Mac have actions when putting the mouse at corners/edges 12:51:10 stuff like that 12:51:13 precisely because you can move the mouse there without looking 12:51:15 oklopol: most things but typing 12:51:21 AnMaster: gee, typing is faster with a keyboard? 12:51:21 crazy 12:51:31 ais523: yes, this is accounted for in most of the theories 12:51:33 it's fitt's law 12:51:35 ehird: what about playing NetHack? 12:51:35 ehird, .. I meant: isn't that touch typing 12:51:38 when you have something that hits the boundary, 12:51:42 it's infinitely high/wide 12:51:46 I'm trying to figure out where the boundary is atm 12:51:47 thus it's infinitely easy to point at 12:51:56 ehird, iirc *you* told me that it wasn't touch typing if you looked at the screen a few weeks ago... 12:51:58 ais523: nethack is a pretty bad ui in general, but for its UI keyboard is prolly better 12:52:05 but it's mainly fun because of the bad ui 12:52:06 IME 12:52:12 AnMaster: if you have to look at the screen 12:52:13 incidentally, all known mouse-based UIs for NetHack are insanely awful, but I think that's an accident of history rather than anything universal 12:52:14 ehird: i mostly just point at folders or files to open them, that's a lot faster with a console 12:52:18 but you just type while your concentration is distracted 12:52:25 you wouldn't remove a directory while looking at something else 12:52:28 because you're thinking less about it 12:52:37 anyway I'm not interested in this argument 12:52:39 ehird, well.. lets say I'm typing something in from a paper. Thus looking at the paper instead 12:52:39 like 12:52:43 a track listing on a cd? 12:52:55 also for web surfing, but that's a fundamentally broken system anyway :P 12:52:57 i've had it many times, no matter how much i argue or point people at studies they never change their mind, so, rather pointless 12:53:01 AnMaster: i don't think you understand me 12:53:03 THAT IS TYPING WORDS 12:53:07 not taking actions 12:53:21 aaand i'm done 12:53:24 we're not talking about this any more 12:53:57 ehird, I'm talking about: " ais523: touch typing is used for typing while looking at the screen, mostly" <-- you claimed that not needing to look at screen OR keyboard was touch typing a few weeks ago 12:54:02 could you just tell me a specific task that's faster with a pointer that's not web surfing? 12:54:03 -!- Asztal has joined. 12:54:07 or anyone, really 12:54:12 kjfskdfksjdfksdf 12:54:13 oklopol, image editing 12:54:15 just interested to know what "most" means 12:54:16 remember when I said we're done? 12:54:17 I suppose some people spend a lot more time typing words /than/ taking actions 12:54:19 AnMaster: that's not about pointing 12:54:24 that means _i am not talking about it any more_ 12:54:25 guys 12:54:26 INTERCAL! 12:54:26 ehird, remember what I said about your oddities 12:54:29 let's talk about intercal 12:54:30 this was one 12:54:32 hmm... much the same way that some vi users spend all their time in insert mode 12:54:36 oklopol, oh? 12:54:46 AnMaster: being tired of talking about bullshit that we've talked about so many times, rehashing the same thing and never getting anywhere? 12:54:47 oklopol, you point in the image to where you want to edit it? 12:54:53 well i must be fucking insane not to want to do that! 12:55:13 ehird, nah. Not exactly that one 12:55:15 rather: 12:55:25 AnMaster: it's not pointing in the sense that clicking on folders is about pointing; clearly anything where you need to draw any kind of lines or regions is better with something that can do that 12:55:29 you know I don't care right? 12:55:40 SliceHost sure do delete accounts quickly :( 12:55:48 Asztal: wat? 12:55:49 "being irritated when you are "loosing" a discussion and refusing to continue discussion, claiming you don't care" 12:55:52 that one 12:56:01 but pointing, telling the computer which object you want to look at, is faster with a keyboard, when it comes to browsing folders 12:56:05 I was hoping the DNS servers might serve things for a little more than 3 seconds after I closed the account, oh well 12:56:13 just interested in where it's not 12:56:17 oklopol: wow if you set 3d objects to black 12:56:19 *knowing 12:56:21 oklopol: fill(23,54,95,23); :P 12:56:27 oklopol: the minimize/maximize/close buttons' text becomes black 12:56:32 so you have to know where they are 12:56:33 awesome. 12:56:35 assuming that is x,y,w,h 12:56:39 AnMaster: yeah that doesn't work at all 12:57:02 oklopol, well... it works. Just extremely irritating interface 12:57:02 [12:55] AnMaster: "being irritated when you are "loosing" a discussion and refusing to continue discussion, claiming you don't care" 12:57:02 [12:55] AnMaster: that one 12:57:03 then may i point out your oddity, namely not listening to my past fucking 10 or so lines while trying to insult me? 12:57:07 kinda like browsing folders by memorizing where you need to click and saying "i wanna open folder that's rendered at location (x,y)" 12:57:13 and now i am-not-discussing-it-more 12:57:47 ehird, this is supporting my theory :) thanks 12:57:48 bbl 12:58:03 what a stupid, stupid person. 12:59:06 ehird: i'm not saying you are ever wrong, but you definitely suck at having arguments, kinda like arguing with god, he's just right, shut up already. 12:59:12 Is it a bad idea to reply to people 2 years after they comment? 12:59:19 oklopol: i don't rague with idiots, as a general rule 12:59:48 bbl 13:00:20 *argue 13:00:22 lol rague 13:00:42 ehird: i don't think you only do that with idiots. 13:00:49 true true 13:00:51 most people are idiots though. 13:01:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:01:03 like, say 13:01:04 everyone 13:01:26 maybe only when people know less than you about the matter, and aren't being perfectly rational, but idiocy is not required. 13:01:41 that's how i define idiocy tho :P 13:01:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:01:57 you do realize you do it yourself, a lot, too? 13:02:01 yes 13:02:04 that's cuz i'm an idiot 13:02:22 well right, i guess this is settled :P 13:02:32 still wondering what tasks you meant in particular though :P 13:02:38 but i guess i can keep wondering 13:02:42 like, doing your mom 13:02:45 sorta thing 13:03:24 that requires both poking with the mouse and pressing buttons 13:03:40 if you wanna do it well 13:03:42 *her 13:04:13 oh wow 13:04:16 by changing my windows theme 13:04:21 all webpages now have a black background 13:04:27 you do realize you do it yourself, a lot, too? <-- damn synchronicity 13:04:36 wat 13:04:49 oklopol: dude, _all_ _web_ _pages_ 13:04:53 even those that specify their own background 13:04:57 :o 13:05:00 they're all white on black 13:05:03 how can you resist man 13:05:05 i'll be looking forward to that 13:05:11 i was _just_ grumbling over what a stubborn prick my dad is, because of an email he sent :/ 13:05:24 *brick, i swear i meant to write 13:05:36 link? 13:05:44 oklopol: link to what 13:05:48 the email 13:05:49 ofc 13:05:50 no way 13:05:53 :P 13:06:10 tbh i wasn't actually expecting you'd link it. 13:06:32 i don't want to be _that_ big a prick 13:06:37 oerjan: was your point that you're a stubborn cock too? 13:06:43 *block 13:06:50 yeah, probably :/ 13:07:12 that's not your most salient feature on irc, if it's any consolation 13:07:30 (don't ask what is ;P) 13:07:44 thank you :) *er, what* 13:08:06 i would imagine that would be inane puns 13:08:11 oklopol: as soon as i fix this pesky "a bunch of the text is black on black" problem i shall release this theme 13:08:13 for sexual purposes ofc 13:08:49 oklopol: also there's no actual hover colour so you have to be sure you're pressing the right thing within yourself 13:08:54 i think that's pretty cool 13:08:59 similarly, no distinction between active and inactive window 13:09:09 oerjan: well sure, but to someone who's actually been listening to you for a long time, not so much. 13:10:02 ehird: okay all that sounds good 13:11:09 * oerjan starts getting worried now 13:12:33 oklopol: i'm even gonna use a white on black firefox theme 13:12:36 and force all fonts to be consolas 13:17:24 oklopol: * { background-color: #000 !important; color: #FFF !important; } 13:17:27 no compromise. 13:17:35 :P 13:17:39 also i have just found out that highlighted text isn't… highlighted 13:17:39 :D 13:19:22 it works! 13:22:42 as soon as i fix this pesky text problem it shall be done 13:27:40 oklopol: haha progress bars never fill in 13:31:10 :D 13:31:11 cool 13:31:27 oklopol: you don't really need to read button text do you? 13:31:33 hey wait 13:31:33 :D 13:31:34 i fixed it 13:31:34 <3 13:31:38 i think i do, tbh 13:32:25 now just to get a ff theme 13:32:31 *an 13:38:12 it's very silly how black and monospaced this thing is 13:38:23 there's like 1,000 non-white, non-black pixels on the screen 13:38:26 total 13:41:35 cool. 13:53:23 oklopol: and now, for your viewing pleasure: 13:53:46 I present 13:53:50 …wait a sec 13:55:17 oklopol: and now, for your viewing pleasure, I present my work "windows in black, white and consolas": 13:55:19 http://imgur.com/JDuSP.png 13:55:25 lessee 13:57:14 (oklopol then spent ten minutes attempting to click on the buttons and links of the screenshot.) 13:58:46 ehird: well i tried scrolling :P 13:58:56 so fuck you for saying that. 13:59:00 oklopol: sry :( 13:59:04 but hey it is awesome right 14:00:05 I've seen people who use windows almost like that (without consolas, that is) 14:00:21 oklopol specifically specified (← lawl) monospaced! 14:00:22 ok kde4 is very dumbed down 14:00:29 I installed kmines from kde4 to test it 14:00:37 AnMaster: yeah you can hardly configure the mines to hook in with the terminal emulator 14:00:39 I can't even set up the click mapping 14:00:43 and it doesn't have a built in text editor any more 14:00:49 stupid kde4 mines. 14:01:11 ehird, I want middle = free one, left = free around if possible (which is usually middle), left = mark mine 14:01:22 that's nice? 14:01:22 but I can't configure that in either kde4 kmines or the gnome mines app 14:01:27 kde3 one I could in 14:01:33 ehird, it is much faster to click that way 14:01:45 "left = free around if possible (which is usually middle), left = mark mine" 14:01:49 guess you want it to be telepathic too huh 14:01:53 ehird, right 14:01:56 I meant right 14:02:00 for the second one 14:02:02 typo 14:02:06 suuuuuuure 14:02:10 ... 14:02:16 oklopol: anyway did i do that all for nothing or do you want me to give it 14:04:01 ehird: well umm sure gimme :P 14:04:22 Asztal: i can't stand non-monospaced fonts 14:04:27 oklopol: but you'll be all "oh i have to work to configure it laaaaaaame" :P 14:04:59 i assume i'd just have to put it in like a themes folder and choose it from the list 14:05:10 alas, no 14:05:16 it requires a bit of clicky click. 14:05:21 oh wait 14:05:25 there appears to be a theme file thing 14:05:30 you'd still have to clicky click but lesso 14:05:47 oklopol: Then you probably hate/pity me for having coded in Comic Sans MS :) 14:05:54 Asztal: ABDUHWHDJFKLjdkgwhat 14:06:12 Green-on-red, too. 14:07:20 Asztal: …why?! 14:09:04 Asztal: i might do that with something like wingdings as a brain adaption exercise, but with comic sans, i'm pretty indifferent to it. and i don't really see the difference bitween comic sans and all the other ugly non-monospaced fonts, easy to read, but broken by not being monospaced. 14:09:13 *between 14:09:16 ugh 14:09:30 oklopol: okay, i figureds it out 14:09:34 lemme compile an instruction list thing 14:14:27 oklopol: here goeses: 14:15:11 oklopol: http://pastie.org/561607.txt?key=naofzirdnebs4kp3qv2rwa, the theme file you need is http://filebin.ca/dvvzzj/windowsinblackwhiteandconsolas.themepack 14:15:22 oklopol: oh, I missed one more step 14:15:27 oklopol: in the control panel, find the cursors 14:15:33 change it to Windows Black. 14:15:58 It will be totally super-plus kickass. 14:16:35 …for a definition of kickass equal to "white, black and consolas". 14:16:38 *black, white 14:18:13 -!- oerjan has quit ("Fit that into your database"). 14:18:50 ehird, you should read the annotation on IWC today. Is it really that bad in UK? 14:19:23 AnMaster: yes. 14:19:32 public photography is de-facto illegal in the uk. 14:19:41 unless it's CCTV. 14:19:48 or the police. 14:19:48 (or google :-P) 14:20:17 AnMaster: oh, also: 14:20:21 "We’d all like to help the police to do their job well. They, in turn, would like to have a massive database with DNA profiles from everyone who has been arrested, but not convicted of a crime." 14:20:23 http://www.badscience.net/2009/07/is-this-a-joke/ 14:20:25 source: the Guardian 14:25:45 ehird: this is for firefox? i'm not currently using it... 14:25:54 oklopol: well the windows theme isn't for ff 14:26:00 but the font/colour stuff is 14:26:02 oklopol: what are you using instead 14:26:04 i switched to ie because i can't change the language in ff 14:26:11 lol 14:26:16 i'll do it for IE then 14:27:58 oklopol: anyway do the windows theme + cursor while i do it for IE? 14:28:06 those aren't ff-related 14:30:49 oklopol: Tools -> Internet Options -> Fonts. Consolas on both sides. Accessibility. Ignore colours, font sizes. Format documents using my style sheet - make a file in notepad with the text [[ * { font-family: Consolas !important; font-size: 13px !important; } ]], save it as "(whatever).css" and select it. 14:31:32 hmm 14:31:36 oklopol: that doesn't actually fix the font size 14:31:39 sec 14:31:41 oh 14:31:48 oklopol: don't tick the "ignore font sizes" 14:32:00 oh, also 14:32:06 oklopol: the file should actually be: [[ 14:32:12 * { font-family: Consolas !important; font-size: 13px !important; } 14:32:19 a:link { text-decoration: underline !important; } 14:32:19 ]] 14:32:47 wait, doesn't work 14:32:50 oklopol: remove the ":link" part 14:33:57 urgh 14:34:01 oklopol: okay, the file should be 14:34:12 the same as above 14:34:15 but replace a:link with 14:34:19 a:link, a:hover, a:active, a:visited 14:34:48 if you'll do that 14:34:49 it will work 14:34:51 splendidly. 14:35:06 what the fuck it didn't work. 14:35:45 oklopol: colors, untick use window colours, text = white, background = black, visited and unvisisted = white 14:35:47 finally 14:35:47 done 14:35:54 oklopol: now tell me you'll do it, otherwise i just wasted like half an hour 14:36:24 wow since about 13:00 14:36:29 an hour and a half 14:36:35 :D 14:36:47 in fact oklopol if you do the colors menu thing 14:36:51 you can omit the a line from the css 14:37:04 wait 14:37:05 no you can't 14:37:06 argh 14:37:09 oklopol: shall i compile a new guide 14:37:09 for IE 14:37:13 xD 14:37:16 err yeah that might be better 14:39:18 heh, there was this iq test, "what's the capital of X? 1) X; 2) Y; 3) Z; 4) all of the above" and i'm like lol worst iq test ever 14:39:25 and 4) is the correct answer 14:39:46 oh wait 14:39:51 *capital of W 14:40:14 oklopol: wat 14:40:37 well you know how iq tests usually suck when they're pop ups 14:40:48 oklopol: oh. none will have been "correct" 14:40:52 i just assumed all of the above was like a standard fourth question 14:40:52 they'll all have linked to the same page 14:41:01 oklopol: http://pastie.org/561636.txt?key=jhd5a2mamzfmg2gcvysrcw 14:41:03 no not always 14:41:09 compleat guide to "windows in black, white and consolas" 14:41:10 there are many kinds of things those do 14:41:32 some actually give you a result, not sure any actually is an iq test of any kind 14:42:14 ehird: 4 was the correct answer based on wikipedia that is 14:42:21 xD wat 14:42:28 south africa 14:42:33 technically three capitals 14:42:51 oklopol: oh so it wasn't actually X with answers X Y and Z? 14:42:55 i was very confused there 14:42:58 remembered i'd heard of something like that, so i checked, now i kinda feel like i should find the page and apologize for laughing at it 14:43:01 oh, sorry 14:43:09 i don't know how to mark variables 14:43:10 it's okay, i'm retarded :D 14:43:32 as retarded as a snow in a flow 14:43:56 anyway do that damn guide i spent ages on the whole thing :P 14:47:58 okay all done except for the css, i don't know where to make it use that 14:48:55 oklopol: in the same place as the last click 14:48:55 xD 14:49:04 you'll have to restart IE afterwards 14:49:06 or it doesn't stick 14:49:11 yeah i found it shut up :D 14:49:50 doesn't stick? you mean i have to restart it right away, because if i do later, it will have changed back? 14:51:18 oklopol: no, it just won't apply yet 14:51:21 and it'll be in a half-state 14:51:24 with the other stuff but not the CSS 14:51:27 which will be a bit bleh 14:51:48 well i'll restart after this ep 14:52:09 although i'll probably leave the computer then 14:52:14 at least i hope i will 14:53:54 oklopol: you won't 14:54:07 but 14:54:30 i can't just waste the whole day and read during the night like usually, because i'm trying to keep this new human sleep cycle 14:55:22 oklopol: why 14:55:27 you should be going the other way 14:55:28 like uberman's 14:56:16 too late now 14:56:26 should've done that in the beginning of the summer 14:56:57 oklopol: be magic 14:57:07 but having the day the other way around is just a nuisance 14:57:31 i mean i like the fact i don't see much of the sun, but you know shops and shit. 14:57:38 also i have stuff to do later this week 14:58:29 oklopol: yeah but you can do it ≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥magic 14:58:50 do what :P 14:59:13 ←the doing in the summer →of the other way around← because uberman →→both ways←← bisexual ≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥≥day time→ 14:59:19 magic* 14:59:50 that was... confusing 14:59:56 now i have this chili pepper stuff 15:00:05 one of those bastards is like 1cm in length 15:00:12 and i've been eating it for two days 15:00:28 i've gotten about 2 millimeters down, and i've been having diarrhea like every 3 hours 15:00:55 oh my god my tongue hurts 15:00:59 oklopol: okay the explain 15:01:56 ←←the thing→ note the notational parentheses, like inverses, the further in the less parenthical ←←in summer→ hard but if you're magic→ (be magic) →then← →uberman day →both ways← not just no sun →no sun and sun←← →you can no sun →and shops←← ←at same →time←!→→ 15:02:45 okay that makes much more sense 15:03:00 and 15:03:05 →since it goes← both ways 15:03:11 ←it is→ day bisexual! 15:05:11 Hey doods I'm on qwantz.com 15:05:14 Have I won Internet? 15:05:34 GregorR: wow really 15:05:43 put some adsense on that bitch 15:05:54 :P 15:06:02 GregorR: also link to your lonely trex thing on one of the pages 15:06:49 Maybe when there are a few more in the backlog so I know Brian won't just go "well I've decided not to care lawl" 15:06:50 'cuz, y'know, it's not 15:06:59 GregorR: brian? 15:07:21 He's the one actually making them, I just made the site. 15:07:42 Hence "Posted ... by Brian" on the only one that's there so far :P 15:07:50 :P 15:07:51 http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=1,4&comics=684,1259 15:08:07 "second and fifth crazy times" :P 15:08:18 It's right up your alley. 15:08:33 lol @ trapdoor functions X-D 15:08:49 GregorR: your munger still doesn't have the rearrange features btw 15:08:50 or the duplicate 15:08:54 even though the .php does 15:09:17 *yawn* 15:12:42 omg 15:12:46 a dinosaur comic with actual drawing 15:12:47 http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-440.png 15:13:45 He does thought bubbles occasionally :P 15:15:53 GregorR: yeah but this isn't just around text! 15:15:58 it's around other parts of the panel too! 15:16:10 He does full-panel thought bubbles occasionally. 15:16:15 There are at least four or five 15:16:31 are there any moustaches though 15:19:08 In the reversed ones there are goatees 15:19:31 GregorR: Thus "a", not "the" :P 15:23:00 * Sgeo pokes ehird nomicwise 15:23:21 Nomic and government: The two directions of the seventh dimension. 15:23:37 *Government and nomic; a more aesthetically pleasing order. 15:23:46 * ehird cheques email. 15:25:17 Sgeo: lame 15:25:29 Perhaps, in fact, überlame. 15:25:37 ehird: any reason why it's more aesthetically pleasing? 15:25:44 just felt like it? 15:25:48 oklopol: nomic feels more like forwards/inwards 15:25:54 government feels more like backwards/outwards 15:25:55 to me 15:26:00 ehird, the idea itself, or my promotion of it in Agora? 15:26:03 i mean, i'm imagining Sgeo behind me, poking me nomicwise 15:26:07 so 15:26:12 Sgeo: the execution? :P 15:26:34 ehird: so just felt like it basically :P 15:26:35 Any suggestions? 15:26:40 Sgeo: nope 15:27:27 No constructive criticism? 15:27:38 nopppppy :) 15:27:41 :D 15:33:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:57:17 . 16:14:47 -!- ehird_ has joined. 16:27:41 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:29:55 -!- GregorR-L has joined. 16:30:10 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:31:59 -!- ehird has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:35:49 -!- ehird_ has quit. 16:38:47 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 16:39:01 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:58:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:16:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:33:01 -!- Asztal has joined. 17:37:30 -!- jix_ has joined. 17:49:21 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 18:10:21 -!- Azstal has joined. 18:21:45 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:53:13 -!- ehird has joined. 18:53:48 so 18:53:49 I'm 18:53:57 setting up debian on an old powermac! 18:54:04 with a 14.5" crt screen! 18:54:40 and a ONE BUTAN mouse! 18:56:46 Sweet 8-D 18:56:49 I've done that :P 18:57:14 GregorR-L: ah, but I mean old 18:57:17 beige box 18:57:20 old world rom 18:57:28 not a lame g3/g4 power mac, oh no 18:57:33 I've installed Debian on an m68k, bitch. 18:57:44 AND an old world, AND a new world mac. 18:57:45 i've installed debian on your mom's face 18:57:55 anyway this thing can't boot from floppies 18:57:55 Sweet, I thought only NetBSD had been ported there. 18:58:00 and lenny doesn't have powerpc floppies 18:58:07 so i'm downloading etch powerpc floppies 18:58:13 and then upgrading to lenny 18:58:15 then to testing 18:58:23 i wonder if it'll support the ADB kb/mouse 18:58:30 anyway, currently it doesn't want to write this 1.2MB floppy image 18:58:38 guess it needs that little .2mb extra oomph 19:01:38 GregorR-L: this machine is fun though 19:01:44 it has 96MB of RAM in like 10 sticks 19:01:53 and two 1.19GB HDs 19:02:04 also, it seems to have a g3 processor 19:02:06 which it wasn't sold with 19:02:10 so someone's done some upgrading 19:02:17 it also has a rather loud fan 19:03:18 I've installed Debian on that Performa what-was-the-number-again. It wasn't m68k, but it was still tricky; had to boot with that Mach-based MkLinux booter, nothing else worked. 19:05:35 Performa 5260, I guess. 19:05:46 anyhow, anyone know how to write a non-1.44mb floppy in os 9? 19:06:05 fizzie: I had to replace the CPU on my LC :P 19:06:25 ehird: Install A/UX. Use dd. 19:06:32 pikhq: let's see 19:06:34 how do i put this 19:06:35 The Performa had a 603e PPC, at least. 19:06:35 how about 19:06:36 "no" 19:06:52 ^_^ 19:07:05 "The Apple Macintosh Performa 5260/120 features a 120 MHz PowerPC 603e processor, 8 MB or 16 MB of RAM, and a 1.2 GB hard drive in an attractive all-in-one case with a 14" color monitor." Well, I guess "attractive" is in the eye of the beholder. 19:07:14 incidentally, the iphone makes a nice camera 19:07:17 just email the photos to yourself 19:07:33 fizzie: my setup is far more ghetto 19:07:38 i have a TV/computer/whatever trolley thing 19:07:41 and the mac was on sideways 19:07:45 due to not fitting the other way around 19:07:46 so 19:07:50 i tilted the monitor 19:07:54 tilted the trolley 19:07:58 so it's thin and long 19:08:02 put the keyboard on a binder next to the monitor 19:08:08 tilted up the monitor so it had an ok angle 19:08:15 then got a low table 19:08:19 stacked a bunch of books on it 19:08:20 a mousepad 19:08:21 and finally the mouse 19:08:24 and put them next to each other 19:09:27 * ehird uploads pics 19:11:02 pics: http://imgur.com/ZuRX0.jpg, http://imgur.com/6LFmv.jpg and http://imgur.com/kpU2b.jpg 19:11:23 featuring IE 5! 19:12:50 sooo 19:12:57 anyone know of floppy image writing software for mac os 9 19:21:14 IE 120, pretty nifty 19:22:25 fizzie: wat 19:22:29 oh 19:22:30 factorial 19:22:30 lawl 19:22:33 *FireFly 19:23:02 ゅ <-- Looks like a fish 19:23:03 Kinda 19:23:06 * ehird attempts to redownload the image 19:23:08 FireFly: "kinda" 19:23:09 ...a deadfish? 19:23:30 s/Kinda/Kind of/ 19:23:30 guys do you think Gnome will run on a 300mhz PowerPC G3 with 96MB of RAM :-D 19:23:31 better? 19:23:42 FireFly: I was just emphasising "kinda" :P 19:23:49 Meh 19:24:13 ehird: Yes, but it's dubious that it's worth it. 19:24:18 pikhq: yeah I was joking 19:24:23 i'll go with lwm or something 19:24:30 lwm is quite nice 19:24:41 well it could do with a task bar 19:24:44 but. 19:25:05 pikhq: so if I can't get this 1.2mb etch floppy to work 19:25:12 (there's a 1.6mb one too, hope I won't need that) 19:25:15 pikhq: what's the one before etch? 19:25:28 can I go that → etch → lenny → testing without wanting to kill myself? :D 19:26:12 Sarge. 19:26:25 Sarge -> 19:26:32 Etch was a nasty jump. 19:26:37 pikhq: was it? :( 19:26:52 pikhq: but won't I just be able to replace the apt list and do dist-upgrade a few times? 19:27:08 The time between Sarge and Etch was about 6 years. 19:27:16 pikhq: …so it won't work very well, then? 19:27:26 The major version of everything was incremented. 19:27:29 EVERYTHING. 19:27:36 what, every single package? 19:27:43 Well, except Linux. That just did 2.4 (with 2.2 still supported) to 2.6. 19:27:50 i doubt every single package :P 19:27:51 anyway 19:27:55 pikhq: so that's not a good route, then? 19:28:05 i have my old pc, maybe that could write the floppy doppy woppy 19:28:05 It's not. 19:28:35 pikhq: otoh, how in the world of fuck am I meant to write a 1.6mb floppy? 19:28:50 dd if=floppy of=/dev/fd0 19:28:59 pikhq: 1.6mb. 19:29:01 Linux has crazy floppy support. 19:29:02 ;) 19:29:03 The MEDIA is 1.44mb. 19:29:03 Yes. 19:29:08 pikhq: No, no, you don't understand. 19:29:11 It's not meant to be 1.6mb. 19:29:20 It was reported as a bug yonks ago, but it must be back. 19:29:23 Actually, the media can support up to 1.8 MB. 19:29:25 The i386 one is 1.44MB. 19:29:31 pikhq: Grrr shut up >_< 19:29:49 Linux has *freaking crazy* floppy support. ;) 19:30:06 Oh, wait. *Sarge* wasn't a bad jump. 19:30:16 It was Woody that went ages without an update. 19:30:54 Sarge had updated versions of 73% of the distribution and doubled in the number of supported packages... 19:31:01 pikhq: Actually, the media can upport up to 2.8 19:31:16 Just most drives don't :P 19:31:18 GregorR-L: Hush. 19:32:02 ehird: Oh, and Woody originally shipped with Linux *2.2*. 19:32:26 pikhq: Okay, so sarge → etch → lenny → testing might only take a few hours? 19:32:50 Yeah. 19:32:56 Yay. 19:33:02 I'll do that, then. I… guess. 19:33:09 Now where are dem sarge ppc floppies? 19:33:16 Not in /debian/dists/, unless it's oldstable. 19:33:24 oldoldstable. 19:33:26 grampastable. 19:33:27 It's no longer supported. 19:33:50 soo 19:33:57 i have to get it from pirate warez debian sites? :D 19:35:24 or… 19:35:52 pikhq: will any drive support 1.6mb disks, out of curiosity? 19:35:53 as in 19:35:57 forall drives, support 19:37:06 All drives support it. Just not all OSes. 19:37:21 (Linux does some really funky things with the floppy controller) 19:37:46 pikhq: which is best? 19:37:53 1. write floppies on old pc, hope they work 19:37:54 ? 19:37:56 2. try sarge instead 19:38:09 Unix of some sort. 19:38:24 old pc = runs linu 19:38:24 x 19:38:40 Perfect. 19:38:47 but tons of upgrades sounds fun :D 19:41:03 soo 19:41:07 do it on the other machine tthen 19:41:08 then 19:44:10 pikhq: i've found the sarge images and there's a 1.3 one! 19:44:11 so etch it is 19:45:15 may i, incidentally, sing high praises for this powermac? 19:45:18 it's quite nice, albeit slow 19:46:26 I wonder what ofonlyboot.img is. 19:46:27 Eh, who cares. 19:47:30 RTFM. 19:49:00 I can't find a manual for the floppy disk files; I've tried. 19:49:01 Anyway. 19:49:04 pikhq: what was that command again? 19:49:41 dd 19:50:01 Oh, just "dd if=foo.img of=/dev/fd0" 19:50:05 says you in the past :P 19:50:54 Yup. 19:51:12 raaaaaaaaaaage 19:51:14 gmail logged me out 19:51:18 on the powermac :P 19:51:33 yay it remembered the text 19:53:20 bah, it just doesn't work on it 19:53:33 now how am i going to get my email, composed on the powermac, to the imac? 19:53:44 using a floppy would be a pain :P 19:53:57 meh 20:00:40 Righty ho, should have those floppies ready in no time. 20:00:47 Then, it's just a matter of etch → lenny → testing. 20:01:16 You know, if the processor was worth shit, I'd make it part of a cluster. :P 20:01:32 But I think it's interesting. 20:01:47 I bet this hardware can be quite snappy. 20:01:50 OS 9 just isn't the fastest thing. 20:01:58 For instance, boxes appear before the text inside them. 20:03:46 Thankfully, there's an empty 1.19GB drive in there, monicker "STORAGE". 20:03:52 *moniker 20:04:08 After this, it'll probably be "OS 9.1" and "Debian". 20:04:14 Fun fun. 20:10:20 http://www38.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=prime+factors+of+0 - zero is prime these days 20:11:59 pikhq: "/dev/fd0: read-only filesystem" 20:12:37 ehird: Flip the switch on the disk? 20:12:50 Deewiant: it is. 20:13:26 Then mount it as read/write? :-P 20:13:55 Deewiant: Uhh. 20:13:57 It's a device file. 20:14:01 Not a mountpoint. 20:14:09 Oh, true 20:15:19 "$ dd if=filename of=/dev/fd0 bs=1024 conv=sync ; sync" 20:15:25 from debian.org/…/powerpc/…, heh 20:15:30 The disk is dead? 20:15:34 but 20:15:35 http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-6.2-Manual/multi-arch/ch-makediskette.html 20:15:39 Deewiant: what, both? 20:15:41 of different makes? 20:15:56 If two different disks said that... maybe :-P 20:15:59 But less likely 20:16:15 ehird: The disk has the write-protect tab on. 20:16:23 Deewiant: I'd expect "IO error" or something from that, not "read-only filesystem". 20:16:24 I suggested that 20:16:28 pikhq: No, it doesn't. 20:16:37 The tab is covering the whole, which is apparently "Write", not "Protect". 20:16:38 I'm not entirely sure. 20:16:40 Unless it's lying to me. 20:16:45 *hole, not whole 20:16:51 The whole hole 20:17:04 Googling suggests that nobody knows what that error is about 20:17:27 Wonderful. 20:17:38 Please don't say "bad drive"; I'll cry. 20:17:48 Possible :-P 20:17:57 Well… it didn't mount anything when the disk was put in. 20:18:01 So it's quite possible… 20:18:07 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 20:18:19 Do OSs generally automount floppies 20:18:33 Maybe not, Ubuntu might though :P 20:18:34 Deewiant: Macs. 20:18:35 It's difficult to do 20:18:43 *Perhaps, not maybe 20:18:47 pikhq: Old macs, yeah. 20:18:50 New macs, mu. :P 20:18:57 Ubuntu, probably not. 20:18:58 Azstal: I've read the Old New Thing article on it. 20:18:59 It's stupid. 20:19:01 It's difficult to do on normal machines, because they don't have disk insertion detection. 20:19:05 Unless you have a freaky drive 20:19:17 "Users couldn't possibly deal with a floppy drive klunk while it's installing." 20:19:23 "Therefore, we will cripple our OS." 20:23:28 So, uhæ 20:23:29 *… 20:23:38 Maybe it's fd1? 20:24:19 ehird, I'm having fun with aircrack-ng 20:24:23 it makes me scared 20:24:30 seeing how many open networks there are around here 20:24:42 Bruce Schneier runs an open network. 20:24:49 Are you doubting his prowess? 20:25:07 (it provides _more_ privacy; plausible denial for illegal activity) 20:25:11 mine is the only with WPA2. There is one with WPA and the SSID for it is set to the name of an ISP 20:25:13 ehird, ^ 20:25:19 there are a few with WEP 20:25:23 but most are completely open 20:26:30 bleh, I wonder what i should do 20:26:36 I don't have another floppy drivin' computer 20:26:54 ehird, btw had to patch kernel to make my wlan card support aircrack-ng... Oh and this should fix some of the kernel oopses at shutdown too since it brought in a backported driver from 2.6.30 20:27:07 still won't fix the long time to connect bug though 20:29:11 Deewiant: what did you google to find the clueless peeps? 20:29:23 http://www.google.com/search?q="%2Fdev%2Ffd0 read-only 20:29:43 with a " at the end, I assume 20:29:49 Nope 20:30:08 lawl 20:30:09 why not 20:30:21 Less typing 20:30:23 Google infers it 20:30:27 New macs, mu. :P <-- if you ever visit me I have an USB floppy drive. If you want to test it on new macs :P 20:30:38 No… thanks :P 20:30:40 I might even have a floppy somewhere too 20:30:43 Deewiant: it does? 20:30:53 Yes, it does. 20:31:22 cool. 20:37:44 -!- Pthing has joined. 20:42:41 fun a AP with a BSSID (like MAC but for access points) with all zeros 20:42:47 I wonder if that is valid... 20:51:06 -!- GregorR-L has quit ("Leaving"). 20:51:25 Hmm. 20:51:39 pikhq: Deewiant: Doesn't work in Windows either. Guess the drive's borked. 20:51:49 So I need a flexible floppy writer for OS 9… bleh. 20:51:52 ehird: Totally. 20:52:09 ehird, are you trying to do 20:52:14 because I do have access to OS 9 20:52:20 so I might be able to help 20:52:30 but I'm not interested enough to read scrollback :P 20:52:52 AnMaster: Am I trying to do? 20:52:56 I think you missed a "what". :P 20:53:07 But I'm trying to write two oddly-sized floppy images: one 1.2MB and one 1.6MB. 20:53:18 ehird, yes indeed I missed the "what" 20:53:19 Apple's Disk Copy utility patently refuses to recognise either as disk images. 20:53:23 ehird, hm.. 20:53:33 I think Linux can do it 20:53:36 The final purpose for this is to boot them up so that I can have Debian on my old PowerMac. 20:53:39 AnMaster: ↑ 20:53:43 Kinda circular, that :P 20:53:47 there used to be /dev/fd device node 20:53:53 nowdays there only seems to be /dev/fd0 20:53:57 not all the subtype stuff 20:54:01 not sure why 20:54:02 Yes… in Linux… which I'm trying to install… by doing this. 20:54:17 hah 20:54:25 The PC running Linux's floppy drive is broken in both Linux and Windows. 20:54:27 ehird, why do you need oddly sized floppies 20:54:33 also old powermac? YAY 20:54:36 AnMaster: because Debian etch's floppy images are that size 20:54:37 that means a nice floppy drive 20:54:39 s/$/./ 20:54:44 that can do more than normal PC ones 20:54:47 Yes. 20:55:12 It's a "Power Macintosh 7600/120", but it actually has a G3 300MHz processor, not a blargle 120MHz one, so I guess some upgrading was done. 20:55:30 ehird, how long have you had it 20:55:30 It has two 1.19GB disks, one of which is empty and I'll be installing Debian on, and 96MB of RAM in a lot of 16 and 8MB sticks. 20:55:36 Like, a year? 20:55:36 and what OS did it run before 20:55:42 Mac OS 9.1, like it does now. 20:55:47 ehird, what did you pay for it 20:55:51 £30. 20:55:54 `calc 30 £ in SEK 20:55:55 30 UK = 369.235958 Swedish kronor 20:55:56 and why 20:55:58 why on earth 20:56:03 Why not? 20:56:09 Because it's kind of cool. 20:56:10 Only £30. 20:56:18 Not really expensive 20:56:21 It also came with a 15.4" CRT, the keyboard and the mouse. 20:56:22 anyway... *nostalgia over pre-OS X MacOS kicks in* 20:56:36 ehird, usb keyboard or ADB one? 20:56:46 ADB, same with the ONE BUTAN mouse. 20:56:56 AnMaster: it has no USB ports. 20:56:57 later G3s had USB too 20:56:57 hm 20:57:03 I guess first generation didn't 20:57:09 or wait 20:57:10 AnMaster: Right, it's not an iMac G3. 20:57:13 And wasn't sold with a G3. 20:57:15 Hmm. 7600/120... *That* one. 20:57:16 ehird, right 20:57:17 :D 20:57:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_7600 20:57:23 ehird, there is an upgrade card in it? 20:57:29 AnMaster: Presumably. 20:57:37 ehird, you haven't looked 20:57:39 Nope. 20:57:43 ehird, anyway: NuBus or PCI? 20:57:47 Um. 20:57:49 NuBus is fun 20:58:03 I don't know. It's an Old World ROM machine, tohugh. 20:58:04 Probably NuBus. 20:58:05 *though 20:58:19 And has drivers suggestive of some sort of ATI graphics card. 20:58:39 ehird, so it is a case like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outrigger_Macintosh 20:58:45 says WP? 20:58:49 Yep. 20:58:52 It looks exactly like that. 20:59:01 ehird, when you opened it I mean 20:59:06 I haven't opened it. 20:59:14 btw. does it use VGA for the monitor or some other interface? 20:59:23 It's a CRT, so… VGA. 20:59:38 Or… not. 20:59:41 ehird, well.... apple have made some strange connectors during the years 20:59:43 I'm not sure, looking at the back. 20:59:49 so I'm not assuming CRT = VGA for old macs 20:59:50 Anyway, the CRT is made by "Axion". 21:00:04 just consider the "mini-scsi" found on some powerbooks 21:00:11 Looks to be relatively no-name. 21:00:12 and the ADB 21:00:15 So I guess it's VGA. 21:00:16 Anyway. 21:00:19 ehird, right 21:00:35 ehird, no cd? 21:00:37 I just need a flexible floppy image writer for Mac OS 9, essentially. :P 21:00:40 AnMaster: It can't boot from the CD. 21:00:44 ooh right 21:00:50 Old World ROM. 21:00:56 Correction. 21:01:04 It can boot from Mac OS 8.5 install CDs, and nothing else. 21:01:06 ehird, is there some boot floppy of standard size that can then chainload the cd? 21:01:13 Maybe OS 9 too. 21:01:21 AnMaster: Dunno. 21:01:30 I'm getting quite enamoured with the floppy approach, though. :) 21:01:52 http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-gb&q=chainload+cd+old+world+mac&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Doesn't look like it. 21:01:58 ehird, this is strange. I started using ubuntu. You starting using floppies... What the hell is going on!? 21:02:14 Hey, I've always been a retro kind of guy! 21:02:28 At least until I use a retro machine and remember that they're excruciatingly slow. 21:02:46 ehird, you seemed to be extremely surprised when I updated the bios of that old dell I have using a floppy 21:02:58 Was I? 21:03:01 Well, whatever. 21:04:39 Incidentally, IE 5.1 for Mac sort of… sucks. 21:05:56 So. 21:07:24 Anyone want to search for me? I've done so for hours :P 21:07:55 ehird: Compare with IE 5 for the PC. 21:08:04 True, true. 21:08:17 Significantly better standards support. 21:08:33 (it has a sane and sensible box object model! It actually does PNG!) 21:08:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Connection timed out). 21:10:39 Anyone want to search for me? I've done so for hours :P <-- search for what? 21:11:04 A Mac OS 9 application that takes a floppy image and writes a floppy without such concerns for silly things like "is 1.44MB large". 21:11:28 Basically, you want dd for Mac OS. 21:11:37 Right. Except only for floppies, due to a lack of /dev. 21:12:00 Heard of those guys who like System 7 the best of every OS? 21:12:06 There's someone more hardcore. 21:12:07 http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html 21:12:12 System 6 Heaven. 21:12:28 At least that's still a Mac OS with Multifinder. 21:12:53 "Mac OS"? 21:12:56 "System", you uncouth person. 21:13:01 pikhq: And hey, it can use two colours. 21:13:03 And 8 megabytes of RAM. 21:13:03 Shaddup. 21:13:43 "Something are easier in the bloat os called system 7." 21:13:48 And multitask. 21:13:49 Among his complaints are "it's written in C, not asm". 21:14:32 Anyhoo. 21:14:38 Uh. Haven't they done C on the Mac for a while? 21:14:39 I really need these floppies writ; I've spent all day on this. 21:14:43 pikhq: Since System 7. :P 21:14:53 Hey, System 6 is modern! 1991 modern. 21:14:57 Last update. :P 21:15:04 Ah, right. :P 21:15:57 i love system 7 21:16:04 I fail to see how someone willing to use a Mac that old would not be willing to use A/UX. :P 21:16:05 err, not system 7 - i mean unixV7 21:16:36 Aside from "Lawl, it's in C!" 21:16:37 pikhq: A/UX is way more modern than that. 21:16:42 -!- M0ny has joined. 21:17:02 ehird: Last release of A/UX was in '95. 21:17:07 First was in '88. 21:17:15 '88? Huh, okay. 21:17:20 Anyway, guys. 21:17:24 About the same age. 21:17:26 DEBIAN. Dammit. Floppies. >_> 21:32:25 … 21:32:53 Wo! 21:32:54 *Wow 21:32:58 These harddrives are Quantum Fireballs. 21:33:00 Blast from the past. 21:38:02 i will* paypal $10 to the person who finds me a suitable app 21:38:03 *not 21:39:20 You should've placed the footnote after one screen of IRCing 21:39:23 E.g. end of page 21:39:49 lawl 21:40:41 i remember some image software i used to use all the time on system 6 and 7 21:40:47 but i don't know if it had sanity checks, probably did 21:41:00 it was straight up drag and drop 21:41:07 drag floppy to alias, get image 21:41:14 drag image to alias, get (mounted) floppy 21:41:26 evenant: sounds like Disk Copy? by Apple 21:41:28 ..but damned if i can remember the name now 21:41:30 maybe 21:41:30 nope 21:41:33 hmm right no 21:41:42 evenant: i'm trying to write an image to a disk but that's close enough 21:41:50 that it probably has it 21:41:59 anyway i think the net-drivers might be omittable 21:42:54 so i just need 1.2-writing 21:42:55 not 1.6 21:43:24 wow how could i forget the name of such a useful p... 21:43:28 shrinkwrap! 21:43:29 :) 21:44:11 http://www.mac.org/utilities/shrinkwrap/ 21:44:56 evenant: appears to do everything but write images, from the page 21:45:42 yeah 21:45:48 i don't think it writes images 21:45:52 but i remembered the name! :P 21:45:56 haha its tinny speakers makes stuff sound kinda cool 21:46:18 i dunno though, it would make sense to be able to write images too 21:46:23 maybe it's just not the default drop behavior 21:46:26 i'll try it 21:46:41 but i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have it 21:46:48 i don't think i ever used an app that wrote images 21:46:49 Disklosure is a floppy formatter. It supports initialization, erasure, verification and desktop file manipulation of any Macintosh 800K and 1.4Mb floppy disks. Disklosure speeds up lenghty tasks such as initializing more than a couple disks from the standard Finder™ interface, and provides an all-in-one window for customization. Advanced settings to increase the available free space after initialization are also available. 21:46:51 hmm hmm 21:46:56 i'll try both of these 21:49:58 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar 21:50:00 disklosure doesn't do it 21:51:14 Heh, the Stuffit guys (Aladdin Systems) made ShrinkWrap. 21:52:09 evenant: "Sorry, but this demo of Aladdin Transaction Engine is too old to use as a demo and/or purchase." 21:52:19 hmm, but then it seems to start up 21:52:48 evenant: it wants an unlock code :P 21:54:08 evenant: did you buy/pirate it? :D 21:56:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:56:39 evenant: yep, it can do it :(\ 21:56:41 s/\\$// 21:57:42 hm 21:57:44 i probably pirated it 21:57:49 that was over a decade ago 21:57:55 i had access to updated C&N databases at the time 21:57:56 :) 21:58:01 i don't know if C&N still exists 22:00:51 3/4ths of the way to punching the crap out of the crt 22:00:54 * oerjan looks at evenant's irc name 22:01:05 better than a wasted mind and a body on fire, i guess 22:01:15 dude oerjan i made that joke 22:01:16 ages ago 22:01:18 so stfu :P 22:01:32 WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU PATENT IT 22:04:21 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:04:44 :( 22:05:44 why the long, strangely parenthetical face? 22:07:19 oerjan: I'm going to use that expression the next time I see somebody frowning. 22:07:24 fucking happy mac 22:07:25 smiling at me 22:07:27 well bitch 22:07:29 would you be smiling 22:07:32 if you couldn't write floppies 22:07:34 HUH MAC FACE 22:07:35 HUH?! 22:07:45 YOU'RE A FUCKING 1-BIT 1984 MACINTOSH 22:07:47 DUMB AS A BRICK 22:07:49 …sorry. 22:07:52 You don't deserve it. 22:07:56 I didn't mean to take it out on you, Happy Mac. 22:07:57 There, there. 22:07:58 It's okay. 22:09:51 GregorR: please include proper references, wikipedia style. 22:10:07 oerjan: So, [citation needed]? 22:10:27 * oerjan swats GregorR -----### 22:12:17 o 22:12:38 oko 22:13:03 i just debugged a trivial program for like an hour because of the new python's retardedness 22:15:01 oklopol: lol 22:15:19 wrote exponentiation modulo n (didn't know the new python has it, or whether the old one did), and when i realized division is, for some retarded reason, automatically done with doubles, i just corrected the result with a naive int(n/2) 22:15:56 which was stupid of course, but not nearly as stupid as the fact they've made it use doubles 22:16:22 i'm assuming you know the error right away as i'm pointing your attention to it..? 22:16:52 the exponentiation routine wasn't exactly something i thought could ever be written wrong by a human being 22:17:16 anyway, i'm glad i didn't switch to it 22:17:59 oklopol: x//2 22:18:01 integer, bitch 22:18:08 anyway division being non-integer is… senseful 22:18:27 oklopol: can i enslave you to do my googling bidding 22:18:35 !haskell 3/2 22:18:37 so you know the error? 22:18:38 1.5 22:18:47 * oerjan whistles innocently 22:19:05 oklopol: the error of n/m being non-integer? 22:19:06 that's feature yo 22:19:17 ehird: i mean the error with the routine 22:19:26 whaddya mean 22:19:37 what was the error in that exponentiation routine 22:19:53 i mean the int(n/2) correction didn't fix the problem 22:19:54 that was the problem 22:20:16 naturally i realized divisions were non-integer right away 22:20:50 and division being non-integer is senseful if there's a // operator, yes; although i'd have them the other way around 22:21:06 oklopol: not rly, it's what division is 22:21:18 then again, i don't really use doubles anyway 22:21:20 AnMaster: do you know how to format a floppy in mac os 9 that's already formatted? 22:21:35 ehird, sec. it is in one of the menus in finder 22:21:39 well it's so obvious it'd be silly to tell you 22:21:52 glah a fucking hour 22:21:54 ehird, one of the later ones 22:22:05 oklopol: just… tell me? 22:22:14 ehird, forgot the name of it. and anyway I only used Swedish OS9 22:22:25 AnMaster: "erase disk" is greyed out 22:22:33 ehird, did you select the floppy first? 22:22:42 oh it's not in the folder 22:22:43 right 22:22:54 eh 22:22:56 what folder? 22:22:57 AnMaster: i have two integers in python and i want their integer division, but the result is a double, so i do int(n/m) 22:22:59 what's the error? 22:23:00 i mean you don't open the disk 22:23:01 you select it 22:23:15 this is a function that does exponentiation modulo m 22:23:17 oklopol, I think there is some sort of integer division one right? 22:23:28 but ask ehird for python stuff 22:23:30 not me 22:23:34 xD 22:23:38 ugh 22:23:40 okay nm 22:23:44 pretty sure I saw // in python 22:23:46 that was lol 22:23:49 but that *could* be pytho n3 22:23:52 python 3* 22:23:58 …which is what he meant 22:24:11 ehird, um? 22:24:20 AnMaster: i'm asking what could be the error with doing int(n/m) 22:24:24 i mean it should be obvious 22:24:41 * AnMaster wonders what sort of crash aircrack-ng is on when reporting this: 22:24:41 although clearly it's at least slightly less obvious than i thought 22:24:54 crash is a hip new drug! 22:25:28 argh i hate disk copy 22:25:31 00:00:00:00:00:00 -1 0 1787 0 138 -1 OPN 22:25:35 that is 22:25:36 and its fucking "LOL MUST BE 1.44MB EXACTLY" BULL SHIT 22:25:37 channel 138? 22:25:39 what the hell 22:25:41 * oklopol is tempted to start nickpinging random people 22:25:43 that doesn't exist 22:25:56 and it isn't set to listen to that channel either 22:25:59 maybe i'll pad the 1.2 to 1.44 22:26:01 yeah! 22:26:10 that might work! 22:26:12 ^_^ 22:26:16 ehird, I meant crack btw 22:26:24 i guessed 22:26:29 ehird, what about the other one being at 1.6? 22:26:33 or whatever you sadi 22:26:35 said* 22:26:38 net-drivers.img, so i guess it's like 22:26:39 ehird: just think of the types okay, n/m is int -> int -> double, after which you do double -> int, whereas // is int -> int -> int 22:26:43 also cd-drivers is another one that i don't need 22:26:46 i guess net-drivers downloads drivers 22:26:47 from the net 22:26:49 umm 22:26:51 what happens during that translation in addition to flooring? 22:26:51 ehird, nah 22:26:53 maybe not needed? i don't know 22:26:56 AnMaster: what then 22:26:59 ehird, it is network interface drivers 22:27:00 I guess 22:27:08 so you *can* download stuff 22:27:08 oh, for a netinstall 22:27:17 AnMaster: but this is very generic ethernet i think 22:27:18 anyway 22:27:20 i can deal with that later 22:27:27 ehird, do you have LocalTalk? 22:27:31 now what's a good dd command thingy to pad out a file with zeroes, I'm dumb today 22:27:35 that is apple's own network thingy 22:27:37 before ethernet 22:27:42 don't know 22:27:49 it's connected via regular ethernet atm 22:27:53 kay :) 22:27:58 no localtalk I bet 22:28:14 it says it went with the iMac 22:28:16 and this predates the iMac 22:28:17 soooo 22:28:18 it is interesting, I tend to know more than you when it comes to really old macs 22:28:25 ehird, also, don't you just love OS 9? 22:28:28 i _did_ only start using a mac in 2006 22:28:32 AnMaster: is that sarcastic or not? 22:28:45 ehird, well. I love it in a nostalgia love sort of way 22:28:52 it's kinda dandy for 1999 I gues 22:28:54 *guess 22:28:55 if you see what I mean 22:29:08 ehird, no memory protection, so if anything crashes it usually brings the OS with it 22:29:12 yeah 22:29:17 a bit behind for '99 22:29:21 but most mac applications were, like 22:29:22 well behave 22:29:23 d 22:29:29 ehird, nah they weren't 22:29:32 crashes were common 22:29:35 ones i've used at least 22:29:40 well 22:29:43 apple's ones were 22:29:44 and 22:29:48 most well written ones 22:29:53 but even so crashes were common 22:29:54 no shit :P 22:30:16 ehird, what about windows 95? did it have any sort of memory protection between processes? I don't remember 22:30:32 I guess 95 and 98 was the same when it came to that too 22:30:47 95 had that kinda shit, yeah 22:30:54 it was ok 22:32:12 * ehird ruby -e'print "\0" * 133360' >> root.img 22:33:42 AnMaster: how do you close a "minimised" finder window? 22:33:47 i.e. along the bottom bar, tab like thing 22:34:59 ehird, hm not sure what you mean 22:35:09 yay it recognises root 2.img (my padded version) 22:35:11 ^_^!!!!! 22:35:11 YAY 22:35:14 ehird, as in you double clicked a window bar to fold it into the window bar? 22:35:17 or what 22:35:23 AnMaster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Mac_OS_9_screenshot_2.png 22:35:24 see bottom right 22:35:38 aha 22:35:42 drag leftwards to make it into a real window 22:35:43 ehird, huh. I never knew that was possible 22:35:43 then close that 22:35:45 please tell me how 22:35:52 AnMaster: I did it by mistake, but let me try again :) 22:35:58 ehird, how did you do it 22:36:08 AnMaster: simply drag a Finder window to the bottom right, it seems 22:36:11 and position as you wish 22:36:14 interesting 22:36:16 then drag it up or click it once to expand up 22:36:32 could be useful for like a downloads folder 22:36:41 ehird, you can double click any window title bar to fold the window into the title bar iirc 22:36:41 like Leopard's stacks on the dock 22:36:45 AnMaster: yep 22:36:54 personally I prefer the concept of minimising :P 22:36:59 ROOT.IMG WRITTEN!!!!! 22:37:16 ehird, keep mac os too? it is fun and retro :) 22:37:19 PLUS 22:37:38 I can give you some good classic MacOS-only games if you wait for a while 22:37:49 ehird, ^ 22:38:43 -!- GregorR has quit ("Leaving"). 22:38:56 -!- GregorR has joined. 22:39:14 let's try net-drivers.img now 22:39:16 AnMaster: sure 22:39:19 AnMaster: and i will 22:39:28 install debian on the other 1.19GB drive, now named "STORAGE" 22:39:36 leave OS 9 on the first 1.19GB 22:39:39 both Quantum Fireballs :-D 22:39:48 hehe 22:39:49 1.19 22:39:50 :D 22:40:15 ehird, anyway you have to agree OS 9 is fun. It makes you realise how good having a terminal actually is 22:40:23 (because it lacks any sort of terminal) 22:40:53 quite 22:40:57 although i'd be fine with mpw 22:41:01 which has a shell 22:42:12 AnMaster: hey, I can get the same distro as a CD 22:42:15 and 22:42:19 point it to there when it asks for the net drivers 22:42:22 probably? no? 22:42:55 ehird, you have mpw? 22:42:59 no 22:43:01 otherwise I might have a copy 22:43:02 well 22:43:04 installed copy 22:43:14 not sure if you can just bundle that up and send it over 22:43:21 :) 22:43:24 ehird, check if apple provides download still 22:43:27 I don't know 22:44:45 do you think about that distro CD driver thing? 22:45:01 AHA 22:45:11 this is the cause of the strange channel numbers: 22:45:13 http://forums.remote-exploit.org/bt4beta-software-related-issues/22464-strange-channel-numbers-airodump-ng.html 22:45:19 11a networks 22:45:27 which operate on 5 GHz 22:45:34 answerify moi! 22:45:36 do you think about that distro CD driver thing? <-- hm? 22:45:43 I don't know what you mean 22:46:08 AnMaster: I can get the same distribution on CD 22:46:11 and when it asks 22:46:14 "Point to mount-point of net drivers" 22:46:18 I can say /media/cdrom or whatever 22:46:28 anyway, I'm going to try booting up into the installer even if I can't download anything 22:46:30 just to check 22:46:31 ehird, well. I don't know. My mac is newworld 22:46:37 mm 22:46:38 first generation ibook 22:46:40 that's just the bootup stage 22:46:42 :P 22:46:58 ehird, it was able to boot a gentoo live cd for PPC fine and access network from it 22:47:06 yeah yours is way too modern :) 22:47:09 mine's beige! 22:47:21 ehird, mine is turquoise! 22:47:37 at least. I think that is what the colour is called 22:48:03 -!- ehird has quit. 22:48:17 ah no... 22:48:23 it is "blueberry 22:48:23 " 22:48:25 also 22:48:32 why is ehird not using his bouncer? 22:49:52 -!- ehird has joined. 22:49:57 Well, it ejects the bootup floppy if I restart with it in. 22:50:01 * ehird checks the install guide 22:50:34 ehird, what happened to your bouncer 22:50:52 Dropped it when I tried out macirssi and then Colloquy. 22:50:54 /shrug 22:51:05 ehird, why did you quit while rebooting the old computer 22:51:13 I mean 22:51:18 I assume you aren't ircing from OS 9 22:51:21 or are you? 22:51:24 for the feeling, man! 22:51:25 if so, what app 22:51:27 but alas, no 22:51:34 AnMaster: snak or ircle, I assume 22:51:40 ehird, "snak"? 22:51:43 ircle I heard of 22:51:44 hmm ircle is just OS X 22:51:46 err 22:51:46 snak 22:51:47 but never snak 22:52:04 so, ircle 22:52:09 ehird, If I give you MPW, will you write your own in pascal? 22:52:09 or C 22:52:15 those are the supported languages iirc 22:52:27 probably not; I might write my own floppy writer 22:52:34 or implement scheme or something 22:53:14 finally, someone on #python guessed it 22:54:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:55:56 "Before using the floppy you created, set the write protect tab! Otherwise if you accidentally mount it in MacOS, MacOS will helpfully ruin it." 22:55:57 ffffffffffffffffff 22:57:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:58:07 why is this so full of suck. 23:00:13 AnMaster: anyway isn't it kinda hard to upload games what with resource forks? 23:00:15 .img i guess 23:00:25 ehird, .sit? 23:00:29 or .img yeah 23:00:30 or that 23:00:33 i just have an irrational hated of .sits 23:00:38 because they give me shit on OS X sometimes 23:00:42 ehird, there is .hqx and a few other formats too 23:00:46 yeah 23:00:49 i've seen .sit.hqx 23:01:14 ehird, sit can contain resource fork. .sit.hqx mangles that safely 23:01:16 iirc that was it 23:01:20 not 100% sure 23:01:22 xD 23:01:34 ehird, anyway I can make you a self extracting *.img 23:01:42 using some semi-hidden scrips 23:01:44 scripts* 23:01:49 again hidden in some sdk 23:01:51 Uhh, Disk Copy has that as a built-in feature, no? 23:01:55 this time the *right* one iirc 23:02:10 ehird, not under OS 9 iirc 23:02:22 or maybe only if you installed the scripts 23:02:24 go check 23:02:31 Well, maybe that other thing evenant mentioned. 23:02:34 But I think Disk Utility. 23:02:38 Also, it's too slow to sanely check. 23:03:01 what is too slow? 23:03:09 the mac 23:03:11 while interwebbing 23:03:19 anyway is it ok if I prepare this tomorrow? I'm a bit tired and need to sleep 23:03:20 wait what 23:03:24 one thing 23:03:32 ftp://ftp2.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/d/de/debian-imac/MakeDebianFloppy.sit ← doesn't work; what do i need to do to mangle the url into workitude? like a mirror 23:03:36 ehird, are you saying surfing prevents other stff 23:03:38 stuff* 23:03:38 well 23:03:42 AnMaster: no, it just makes it run slow. 23:03:45 apart from apps taking control 23:03:55 since it isn't cooperative multitasking 23:03:59 it is* 23:04:02 not isn't 23:04:32 wow 23:04:36 holding down the mouse button 23:04:40 makes the crt whine in a different way 23:05:00 most notable over a certain position where a tabbar in the Appearance preference pane thing is 23:05:16 wait 23:05:19 it's the mac that whines 23:05:20 anyway AnMaster 23:05:24 how do i have to mangle that link? 23:08:13 hm 23:08:20 ehird, what do you mean about the link 23:08:23 * AnMaster clicks it 23:08:26 it's down 23:08:30 how do i get it from another mirror? 23:08:41 um... where is the download page at sf.net 23:09:03 * ehird downloads ircle 23:09:07 AnMaster: that's the thing, it isn't on their files page 23:09:12 oh hm 23:10:05 ehird, http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/debian-imac/MakeDebianFloppy.sit 23:10:07 there you go 23:10:42 ehird, now remember the modern scheme they use 23:10:43 ^_^ 23:10:56 now, I will try ircle! 23:10:57 ehird, since I suspect the link is very outdated 23:11:02 pointing to an old schme 23:11:04 scheme* 23:11:07 yep 23:11:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:12:22 ircle time 23:13:23 haha 23:13:26 it has OpenProjects 23:14:59 -!- irclehird has joined. 23:15:08 hello world! 23:15:22 tis failing badly at the topics unicode 23:15:29 also i typed those smart quotes just because i could 23:15:40 lawl it isnt sending in unicode either; macroman probably 23:16:03 boooold 23:16:07 silly +c :) 23:17:43 AnMaster: how much do i need to bribe you to re-link that .sit? 23:18:59 infinity apparently 23:19:05 anyone out there wanna relink me? 23:21:15 fine i'll scour the logs on this SLUM OF A MACHINE 23:21:52 -!- irclehird has quit ("Quit"). 23:28:44 ehird: Whaddya mean, smart quotes? 23:28:50 ¹ ¹. 23:28:53 ;p 23:28:57 Mac OS 9.1, dude. :P 23:29:00 I did mention it wasn't unicode. 23:29:16 But, but Plan 9 was doing UTF-8 in like 1990! 23:30:26 they invented it 23:30:42 mycroftiv: Yes, I know. That's half the joke. 23:30:43 pikhq: ken thompson (mr. unix himself) and rob pike came up with utf-8 implementation of unicode on a napkin at a restaurant 23:31:18 pikhq: sorry, im a plan9 AI software myself, im still learning to 'get the joke' in IRC, i will report this misunderstanding to my programmer 23:31:31 he is working on improving my understanding of jokes 23:31:48 mycroftiv: My apologies, good sir. How comes the singularity? 23:32:09 we have the blueprints for the matrioshka brains available on the grid 23:33:21 we plan to start large scale disassembly of the lunar surface to create computronium and begin orbital assembly of the first exa-scale neural nets within 14 stochastic-social cycle units 23:41:54 mycroftiv: just hire some demoscene guys sheesh 23:42:01 they'll have it running on just all the world's supercomputers in no time 23:42:28 it already runs on IBM's blue gene, you know that? 23:42:34 yes 23:42:37 i meant the singularity 23:54:41 AnMaster: how much do i need to bribe you to re-link that .sit? <-- back 23:54:42 \o/! 23:54:45 I was afk 23:54:46 so 23:54:47 well 23:54:48 all the disks are writing! 23:54:49 even the 1.6 one 23:54:55 just had to bad it to the exact length 23:54:58 ehird, what did you do to make it work 23:55:11 ehird, also... 1.6 > 1.44? 23:55:15 yes 23:55:31 AnMaster: used the Make Debian Floppy utility to make sure they don't mount, make them read-only after writing so that the boot stuff isn't erased by Mac OS 23:55:33 and 23:55:38 just padded them out to exact lengths 23:55:46 1.2 to 1.44 and 1.6 to… more 1.6 23:55:54 (1.6*1000*1024, like how 1.44*1000*1024 is done) 23:56:04 shit, the 1.6 failed :( 23:56:11 ehird, MacOS change the floppies itself?! 23:56:13 as in 23:56:17 when not asked to 23:56:17 seems so. 23:56:31 ehird, mac changes stuff a lot 23:56:33 brb 23:56:44 mh so i have everything but net-drivers 23:58:55 * ehird tries another disk just in case